John Quincy Adams The trait that broke a presidency EPISODE TRANSCRIPT Listen to Presidential at http://wapo.st/presidential This transcript was run through an automated transcription service and then lightly edited for clarity. There may be typos or small discrepancies from the podcast audio. CHARLES EDEL: His mother and father told him from the time he was a really, really little boy that it was his job to carry the family name, to serve the Republic. But they are much starker in their language. I mean, these are good New England Puritan traits that they want to bring out in their son. So, he sails across the Atlantic when he's not even ten with his father in wartime conditions. They're chased by British schooners. And he gets letters from his mom, constantly, that say something along the lines of: 'Keep your morals. It's really important to the public and to me. If you don't keep your morals, it would have been better that you went down to the bottom of the ocean.' He gets letters from his father -- he actually has a much closer relationship with his father, in many ways -- that say something along the lines of: 'Considering the advantages that you've been given in life, if you don't rise to the top -- not only of your profession, but of your country -- you will have squandered everything that was given to you.’ LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: John Quincy Adams didn't squander everything. He reached the very top to become president of the United States, just like his father, John Adams. But as we'll learn, John Quincy was much more influential on his way up and on his way down than he was during his time at the nation's pinnacle. I'm Lillian Cunningham, and this is the sixth episode of Presidential. PRESIDENTIAL THEME MUSIC LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: That was Charles Edel speaking at the beginning. He's a professor at the U.S. Naval War College, but he's currently serving in the State Department. He's also the author of the book, “Nation Builder: John Quincy Adams and the Grand Strategy of the Republic.” Now, this episode is, of course, about our sixth president: John Quincy Adams. But perhaps what this episode is really about is a single unique and all-important presidential leadership trait -- and that is the ability to work with Congress. We're about to see how lacking that one trait can break a Presidential podcast wapo.st/presidential 1 presidency. But first, let's take a step back for a moment and revisit what's been going on up until now. The United States has declared and secured its independence from England, and we've had five American presidents already. The country itself is not only becoming more powerful on the global stage, but it's actually getting physically bigger. It's buying up territory so that it can expand from the east coast all the way toward the Pacific. Now, John Quincy Adams has had a front-row seat for all of this. He was alive as a young boy during the American Revolution. And, of course, his dad John Adams was one of the founding fathers. Now, when John Quincy is only 26-years old, he serves as a diplomat abroad while George Washington is president. And then again, he serves as a diplomat when his father John Adams is president and when James Madison is, too. By the time James Monroe was president, John Quincy Adams is named secretary of state. We haven't really been talking about him in earlier episodes, but he is actually behind a lot of the territorial expansion and the big diplomatic moments we've been seeing up until now. In fact, he was so skilled at diplomacy that, today, there are portraits of John Quincy Adams all over the State Department. And actually, one of the main diplomatic reception rooms there is also named after him. CHARLES EDEL: Particularly among those who study and trace foreign policy, his name is really well-known. I mean he's certainly considered the most successful, maybe the second most, but generally tops the list of most successful secretaries of state. He was in office for eight years straight. Most surveys posit him as the central player on foreign policy for the entire 19th century. And that's because he's enormously successful as a diplomat. I mean -- his accomplishments as secretary of state. He not only writes the Monroe Doctrine. He also is the first person to push for and secure American territorial expansion all the way out to the Pacific. So he has a really good run of it. If you know Adams for anything, you know him for his most famous speech -- that America should not go forth in search of monsters to destroy. This has been endlessly quoted. In fact, it might be one of the most quoted phrases in all of U.S. foreign policy history. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: And so what is it that particularly drew you to studying John Quincy Adams? CHARLES EDEL: So, many, many years ago, when I was working at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York City, my old boss handed me a very small book and made the argument in this very small book that there were three grand strategists in our nation's history -- really, three grand strategic traditions. The first being John Quincy Adams. The second being Franklin Roosevelt. And the third, maybe not as a grand strategist, but what George W. Bush was doing, the argument went, was not totally ahistorical, but did draw on certain trends from earlier in American history. The most interesting part of that book by far -- because that's really a somewhat controversial argument, at least that latter part -- was the first: that John Quincy Adams was the primary architect, the primary strategist, of America's growth to power throughout the entire 19th century, laying down the lines all the way into the 20th century. I thought that was a fabulously interesting argument, and I wanted to see if it was true. Presidential podcast wapo.st/presidential 2 LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: OK, so if John Quincy Adams is one of the grand strategists in American history, why do you think it is that so many Americans don't think of him as one of our great presidents or, you know, probably don't even really know much about him? CHARLES EDEL: A couple of different reasons. First of all, he's not a founder per se. John Adams, people remember. John Quincy Adams, a little bit less. Second, maybe we don't like political dynasties. So, that's a little bit of a point why there. But then, I think more importantly, is he's a one-term president. He's the only one-term president other than his dad until you get to Martin Van Buren much later on. And I would go further and say that his presidency is more or less a failure. I mean, almost every single policy that he rolls out and advances as president fails. So, that's one real reason why most Americans don’t know him. I mean, you know the name. But he's lower on the list. He's also not a particularly pleasant personality. And there's something to be said for that, too. For those people who have read David McCullough's biography of John Adams or have seen that wonderful HBO series -- if you remember John Adams, there a couple of shining characteristics of John Adams. He's smart. He knew it. He wanted you to know that. And as you might anticipate, he was pretty annoying about that. Well, all these traits are carried out to the nth degree by his son. But he has none of the mellowing and humor that his father has. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: You know him very well. Now would you set him up on a blind date with someone you knew? CHARLES EDEL: It would depend who I was setting him up on a date with. I don't know, I like you - - I'm not sure that I want to say I would. Maybe? I've spent a lot of time with old J.Q.A. and I would say, that – look, he doesn't suffer fools gladly. He's irascible. He has a very challenging relationship with his wife for the first 30-plus years of their marriage. But he is brilliant. He's interesting. He's fascinating to talk to -- when he's not feeling bad for himself, which is often. He is one of the best conversationalists there are. I mean, it's interesting that when foreign dignitaries come to the United States…and I'm talking about really, the biggies -- Charles Dickens, Alexis de Tocqueville, the Marquis de Lafayette. They all make sure that number one on their social agenda is getting together with John Quincy Adams. Not only because he is a great conversationalist, but because his views of the United States and of foreign policy are so expansive and so interesting. I mean, this is a pretty spectacular man that, when you can engage him, those who were close to him -- you know, both intellectuals but some politicians too, and also those he advocated on behalf of -- thought he was just spectacular. But he was cold. He was remote. His own son said he was impenetrable. And his grandson, the famous historian Henry Adams, said that he had an inner nature so complex that he was an enigma to all of his contemporaries.