THE ISSUES AFFECTING RURAL COMMUNITIES IN THE SOUTH- WEST: NATIONAL FOREST MANAGEMENT AND THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT OVERSIGHT FIELD HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON FORESTS AND FOREST HEALTH OF THE COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED EIGHTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION Monday, September 20, 2004, in Thatcher, Arizona Serial No. 108-107 Printed for the use of the Committee on Resources ( Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/house or Committee address: http://resourcescommittee.house.gov U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 96-206 PS WASHINGTON : 2005 For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800 Fax: (202) 512–2250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402–0001 VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:29 Feb 02, 2005 Jkt 088533 PO 00000 Frm 00001 Fmt 5011 Sfmt 5011 J:\DOCS\96206.TXT HRESOUR1 PsN: KATHY COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES RICHARD W. POMBO, California, Chairman NICK J. RAHALL II, West Virginia, Ranking Democrat Member Don Young, Alaska Dale E. Kildee, Michigan W.J. ‘‘Billy’’ Tauzin, Louisiana Eni F.H. Faleomavaega, American Samoa Jim Saxton, New Jersey Neil Abercrombie, Hawaii Elton Gallegly, California Solomon P. Ortiz, Texas John J. Duncan, Jr., Tennessee Frank Pallone, Jr., New Jersey Wayne T. Gilchrest, Maryland Calvin M. Dooley, California Ken Calvert, California Donna M. Christensen, Virgin Islands Scott McInnis, Colorado Ron Kind, Wisconsin Barbara Cubin, Wyoming Jay Inslee, Washington George Radanovich, California Grace F. Napolitano, California Walter B. Jones, Jr., North Carolina Tom Udall, New Mexico Chris Cannon, Utah Mark Udall, Colorado John E. Peterson, Pennsylvania Anı´bal Acevedo-Vila´, Puerto Rico Jim Gibbons, Nevada, Brad Carson, Oklahoma Vice Chairman Rau´ l M. Grijalva, Arizona Mark E. Souder, Indiana Dennis A. Cardoza, California Greg Walden, Oregon Madeleine Z. Bordallo, Guam Thomas G. Tancredo, Colorado Stephanie Herseth, South Dakota J.D. Hayworth, Arizona George Miller, California Tom Osborne, Nebraska Edward J. Markey, Massachusetts Jeff Flake, Arizona Rube´n Hinojosa, Texas Dennis R. Rehberg, Montana Ciro D. Rodriguez, Texas Rick Renzi, Arizona Joe Baca, California Tom Cole, Oklahoma Stevan Pearce, New Mexico Rob Bishop, Utah Devin Nunes, California Randy Neugebauer, Texas Steven J. Ding, Chief of Staff Lisa Pittman, Chief Counsel James H. Zoia, Democrat Staff Director Jeffrey P. Petrich, Democrat Chief Counsel SUBCOMMITTEE ON FORESTS AND FOREST HEALTH GREG WALDEN, Oregon, Chairman JAY INSLEE, Washington, Ranking Democrat Member John J. Duncan, Jr., Tennessee Dale E. Kildee, Michigan Scott McInnis, Colorado Tom Udall, New Mexico Walter B. Jones, Jr., North Carolina Mark Udall, Colorado John E. Peterson, Pennsylvania Anı´bal Acevedo-Vila´, Puerto Rico Thomas G. Tancredo, Colorado Brad Carson, Oklahoma J.D. Hayworth, Arizona Stephanie Herseth, South Dakota Jeff Flake, Arizona VACANCY Rick Renzi, Arizona VACANCY Stevan Pearce, New Mexico Nick J. Rahall II, West Virginia, ex officio Richard W. Pombo, California, ex officio (II) VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:29 Feb 02, 2005 Jkt 088533 PO 00000 Frm 00002 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 5904 J:\DOCS\96206.TXT HRESOUR1 PsN: KATHY CONTENTS Page Hearing held on Monday, September 20, 2004 ..................................................... 1 Statement of Members: Flake, Hon. Jeff, a Representative in Congress from the State of Arizona . 5 Pombo, Hon. Richard W., a Representative in Congress from the State of California ................................................................................................... 3 Renzi, Hon. Rick, a Representative in Congress from the State of Arizona 3 Walden, Hon. Greg, a Representative in Congress from the State of Oregon ............................................................................................................ 1 Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 2 Statement of Witnesses: Flake, Hon. Jake, Speaker, Arizona House of Representatives .................... 26 Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 29 Forsgren, Harv, Regional Forester, Southwestern Region, Forest Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture ................................................................... 6 Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 8 Hall, Dale, Regional Director, Southwest Region, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, U.S. Department of the Interior .................................................... 11 Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 14 Herrington, Mark, Member, Graham County Board of Supervisors, representing the National Association of Counties .................................... 30 Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 32 Holder, Jan, Program Manager, Gila Watershed Partnership ..................... 46 Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 47 Powell, B.E., Associate Director, Steward Observatory, and Director, Mt. Graham International Observatory ..................................................... 48 Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 51 Warshall, Peter, Ph.D., Peter Warshall and Associates, Tucson, Arizona .. 38 Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 40 Additional materials supplied: National Association of Conservation Districts, Statement submitted for the record ....................................................................................................... 72 Parker, Dennis, Attorney at Law, Patagonia, Arizona, on behalf of Eddie Johnson and the Johnson Ranch, Letter submitted for the record .......... 73 Pope, Irwin, Peridot, Arizona, News release submitted for the record ........ 76 Schneberger, Laura, Gila Livestock Growers, Winston, New Mexico, Letter submitted for the record ................................................................... 77 Zybach, Bob, Corvallis, Oregon, Letter submitted for the record ................. 81 (III) VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:29 Feb 02, 2005 Jkt 088533 PO 00000 Frm 00003 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 5904 J:\DOCS\96206.TXT HRESOUR1 PsN: KATHY VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:29 Feb 02, 2005 Jkt 088533 PO 00000 Frm 00004 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 5904 J:\DOCS\96206.TXT HRESOUR1 PsN: KATHY OVERSIGHT FIELD HEARING ON ISSUES AFFECTING RURAL COMMUNITIES IN THE SOUTHWEST: NATIONAL FOREST MANAGE- MENT AND THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT Monday, September 20, 2004 U.S. House of Representatives Subcommittee on Forests and Forest Health Committee on Resources Thatcher, Arizona The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:00 a.m., at Eastern Arizona College, 615 North Stadium Avenue, Thatcher, Arizona, Hon. Greg Walden [Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding. Present: Representatives Walden, Flake and Renzi. Also Present: Representative Pombo. Mr. WALDEN. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. We appreciate your town’s hospitality as well as that of Eastern Arizona College. STATEMENT OF THE HON. GREG WALDEN, A REPRESENTA- TIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OREGON The Subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony on Issues Affecting Rural Communities in the Southwest—National Forest Management and the Endangered Species Act. Before we hear from our witnesses I would first like to thank Congressman Renzi for requesting this important hearing and for hosting it in his district. He is an active member of this Committee and this Subcommittee and is an extraordinarily important voice for Southwest Arizona on the issues affecting this region and cer- tainly our national forest. I would also like to thank Chairman Pombo, who is here today, for approving this hearing and also for taking time out of his very busy schedule to attend the hearing. And, of course, it is an honor, too, to have with us Congressman Jeff Flake, who I understand attended Eastern Arizona College at one point in his collegiate career. It is vital that the Committee meet in sessions such as this away from Washington, D.C., where we can truly begin to understand the implications that Federal laws and policies have on rural com- munities. One law in particular, the Endangered Species Act, is of special concern to this Committee. It is a 30-year-old law that is not only wreaking havoc on the economic vitality of rural (1) VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:29 Feb 02, 2005 Jkt 088533 PO 00000 Frm 00005 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 J:\DOCS\96206.TXT HRESOUR1 PsN: KATHY 2 communities but it is also doing miserably in achieving the intent for which it was created, the recovery of species. Since the Endangered Species Act was enacted, only seven do- mestic species have been recovered—seven. Given the enormous public and private costs and foregone revenues that the ESA has inflicted, this level of accomplishment is simply unacceptable. Today we will hear testimony concerning species such as the Mount Graham red squirrel, the Mexican spotted owl, the willow flycatcher and others to see how the ESA functions in practice, on the ground and in communities. In preparing for this hearing, several questions come to mind: How does the ESA affect the management of Federal lands? How does catastrophic wildfire affect critical habitat? What is the ESA’s impact on private landowners?