Vol. 729 Wednesday No. 182 13 July 2011 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions EU: Common Fisheries Policy Energy: Fuel Poverty Devolution: England Immigration Advisory Service Phone Hacking Statement Mull of Kintyre Review Statement European Union Bill Commons Amendments and Reasons Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill Report (4th Day) Grand Committee Education Bill Committee (6th Day) Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page £3·50 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. The bound volumes also will be sent to those Peers who similarly notify their wish to receive them. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. 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All prices are inclusive of postage. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2011, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 4DU; email: [email protected] 713 EU: Common Fisheries Policy[13 JULY 2011] EU: Common Fisheries Policy 714 Lord Henley: My Lords, this is becoming rather House of Lords easy, because I think I can agree with the noble Lord as well in terms of the direction that we are travelling Wednesday, 13 July 2011. in. I think that we ought to continue to travel in that direction. We will continue to fight for a ban on 3pm discards and deal with that very serious problem. We will also continue to negotiate with other colleagues in Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Chester. Europe on the other matters that my noble friend and the noble Lord mentioned. EU: Common Fisheries Policy Lord Eden of Winton: Can my noble friend say, on Question the subject of discards in particular, whether the fisheries of any other countries within the European Union 3.06 pm take a different line from that which our own fisheries have taken? Asked by Baroness Parminter To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps Lord Henley: My Lords, discards are a particular they are taking to achieve reform of the Common problem, not so much in Mediterranean waters but Fisheries Policy. more in North Sea and Atlantic waters. That is why I stressed in my earlier responses the need for regionalisation on these matters. As my noble friend and as others The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, have put it, discards are something that we all find Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs abhorrent. The whole idea that such things should still (Lord Henley): My Lords, I welcome this Question be happening is wrong, and we will fight to end from my noble friend; it is particularly timely given discards. We are already doing a considerable amount that the Commission published its proposals for the to reduce the amount of discards within the UK fleet. reform of the common fisheries policy earlier today. My honourable friend the UK fisheries Minister continues Lady Saltoun of Abernethy: Is the Minister aware to encourage his European counterparts to support that the European Commission is now trying to take radical reform, and will be pressing our case for reform back the management of the common fisheries policy, as negotiations develop, with further talks at the which was to have been moved to the European Agriculture and Fisheries Council next Tuesday. Parliament? Baroness Parminter: The common fisheries policy Lord Henley: My Lords, I think the noble Lady has has one of the most dismal reputations of any European got that slightly wrong. As I understand it, following Union policy and is responsible for the fact that yields this report from the Commission, this will be a matter in our fisheries have diminished. Does the Minister for the Council of Ministers and for the European agree that its reform must include the total elimination Parliament. It will be a matter for co-decision, so it of discards, and maximum sustainable yields delivered will take some time. As a result, it is very important by long-term management plans agreed at regional that we build up the appropriate alliances in Europe fisheries level? and within the European Parliament to make sure that we can negotiate the best deal possible for a proper, radical reform of the common fisheries policy. Lord Henley: My Lords, I could be very brief in responding to my noble friend by saying that I agree Lord Campbell of Alloway: My Lords, could the with her entirely. Obviously we want to deal with the Minister answer my noble friend’s question, which is problem of discards. We have done a great deal within of crucial consequence and requires an answer? the United Kingdom about that matter. She is also right to talk about the need for regionalisation of the Lord Henley: My Lords, I thought that I had dealt common fisheries policy and about rights-based with that point in answering my noble friend on discards. management. However, we will discuss all that and We think that the wasteful practice of discarding fish continue to negotiate in Europe on these matters—and should be brought to an end. We are doing a great deal I think that we need support from all sides of the already within the United Kingdom to make sure that House, and throughout the entire country and Europe, it is being reduced by various practical measures relating to get a proper reform of the CFP. to net sizes and other matters. We will also continue, in the negotiations for reform of the common fisheries Lord Sewel: My Lords, does the Minister accept policy, to make sure that we do all we can to bring it that any reform of the common fisheries policy will completely and utterly to an end. fail if it just amounts to piling regulation upon regulation? That has been the trouble with the common fisheries Lord Hughes of Woodside: My Lords, it is not quite policy from the very beginning. Surely the important as simple as saying that discards shall be abandoned. thing is that we accept that fishermen themselves have What happens to the undersize fish caught by fishermen to accept responsibility for the health of the industry. at sea? Will they count against national quotas or As the noble Baroness said, the best way to do that is regional quotas? Are we going to rely solely on changing to build on the regional management organisations net sizes? That is very important, but you cannot avoid that already exist. discards if you fish in the sea. 715 EU: Common Fisheries Policy[LORDS] Energy: Fuel Poverty 716 Lord Henley: My Lords, we can never completely Energy: Fuel Poverty and utterly get rid of discards. We want to get rid of Question them as much as is possible. That is why we are seeking a reform of the CFP, and that is what we are negotiating to do. However, there are also practical measures 3.15 pm relating to net sizes, to which the noble Lord referred, Asked by Earl Cathcart and practical measures relating to CCTV on the boats themselves that can help deal with the problem. It is To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress going to take time and a lot of negotiation with other has been made in carrying out their “full-scale member states and with Members of the European review of fuel poverty and its implementation”, Parliament, but we are committed to working towards with special regard to energy companies adopting a that. rising block tariff system of charging. Lord Knight of Weymouth: My Lords, we very The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, much welcome the Commission’s proposals today to Department of Energy and Climate Change (Lord end discards. In doing so, we pay tribute to the campaign, Marland): My Lords, the Secretary of State announced led by Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall among others, to on 14 March 2011 that Professor John Hills would gather a petition of over half a million signatories to undertake an independent review of fuel poverty. He press for this change. Clearly it is in the long-term has been asked to consider fuel poverty from first interests of the industry for fish stocks to be rebuilt principles—what causes it, its effects and how best to and taken sustainably.