COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES SENATE Official Committee Hansard FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE (Consideration of Estimates) WEDNESDAY, 5 MARCH 1997 BY AUTHORITY OF THE SENATE CANBERRA 1997 CONTENTS WEDNESDAY, 5 MARCH Department of The Prime Minister and Cabinet— Program A—Economic— Subprogram 1—Commercial ........................... 130 Subprogram 2—Employment and training .................. 135 Subprogram 5—Program support .......................... 142 Program B—Social and cultural—Subprogram 1—Land, heritage, environment and culture .............................. 143 Program B—Social and cultural— Subprogram 2—Legal aid and human services ............... 151 Subprogram 3—Housing infrastructure and health ............ 162 Subprogram 5—Aboriginal Hostels Limited ................. 171 Program C—Strategic development and support— Subprogram 1—Strategic planning and policy ............... 172 Subprogram 3—Legal and RCGRMU ..................... 173 Program D—Corporate services program—Subprogram 7—Evaluation and audit ......................................... 173 Wednesday, 5 March 1997 SENATE—Legislation F&PA 129 SENATE Wednesday, 5 March 1997 FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE Portfolios: Parliament; Prime Minister and Cabinet; Finance (including Administrative Services) Members: Senator Short (Chair), Senator Murray (Deputy Chair), Senators Heffernan, Mackay, Ray and Watson Participating members: Senators Abetz, Bishop, Bolkus, Brown, Bob Collins, Colston, Conroy, Cooney, Evans, Faulkner, Harradine, Lundy, Margetts, Neal, Ray, Reynolds, Schacht, Sherry and Tambling The committee met at 8.04 p.m. Consideration resumed from 26 February. DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET Proposed expenditure, $1,715,000 (Document A). Proposed provision, $220,000 (Document B). In Attendance Senator Herron, Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission— Mr G. Rees, Deputy Chief Executive Officer Mr P. Schnierer, General Manager, Corporate Services Mr S. Hoffman, General Manager, Strategic Development and Support Mr J. Eldridge, General Manager, Social and Cultural Mr I. Myers, Acting General Manager, Economic Mr W. Miller, Director, Office of Evaluation and Audit Mr R. Alfredson, Assistant General Manager, Finance Mr C. Plowman, Assistant General Manager, Community Services and Health Mr B. Stacey, Assistant General Manager, Native Title Mr M. O’Ryan, Assistant General Manager, Employment, Education and Training Mr J. Ramsay, Assistant General Manager, Strategic Support Mr R. Goodrick, Assistant General Manager, Legal Ms K. Sculthorpe, Assistant General Manager, Strategic Planning and Policy Aboriginal Hostels Limited Mr K. Clarke, General Manager Mr K. Sharma, Company Secretary Mr R. Lane, Acting assistant General Manager, Operations FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION F&PA 130 SENATE—Legislation Wednesday, 5 March 1997 Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies Mr R. Taylor, Principal Dr K. Palmer, Deputy Principal Mr B. Robinson, Director, Finance Department of Finance— Mr R. Hollis CHAIR—I declare open tonight’s hearing of the Senate Finance and Public Administration Committee in continuation of our additional estimates inquiry. I welcome you, Senator Herron, Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs, and officers from the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission. I propose to proceed by calling on the programs or subprograms as listed on the detailed program, although we will have some general questions to start off with. Before we get to questions, do you have any opening statement that you would like to make, Minister? Senator Herron—No, thank you, Mr Chairman. CHAIR—Let us move straight to questions of a general nature, and then we will get on to the program by program basis. Senator BOB COLLINS—Minister, I have one general question. You would recall that I raised the matter of the document Dispelling the myths in question time last year and proposed that it would be a good idea, in terms of all of the misconceptions in the community, to update and reprint it. You accepted that proposal. Are you in a position to tell us where that is at? Senator Herron—Thank you for jogging my memory about that, because I thought it was a good suggestion. Do the officers know what we are talking about? Mr Rees—We have revised the text, and we would hope in the next four to six weeks to have a publication which we can put out which will be very similar to the one that appeared previously. Senator BOB COLLINS—Thank you very much. Senator ROBERT RAY—What would be the optimum circulation to have effect, do you think? Mr Hoffman—We propose to ensure that it has wide circulation to schools. We have an address list of something in the order of 25,000 or 26,000 people or organisations, schools, all parliamentarians—federal and state—and local government. Senator BOB COLLINS—Thank you. Mr Chairman, I am happy to start moving through the program now. CHAIR—We will move to Program A—Economic. Under that program, there are subprograms, components and subcomponents. For ease of the exercise, we will perhaps deal with it on a subprogram basis. So perhaps we can start with subprogram 1—Commercial. [8.08 p.m.] Program A—Economic Subprogram 1—Commercial Senator BOB COLLINS—I want to ask a number of questions in relation to the business development area. You would recall that I pursued this matter in the last estimates. I was ad- vised in those hearings that the commission was undertaking an organisational restructure to FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION Wednesday, 5 March 1997 SENATE—Legislation F&PA 131 accommodate the downsizing necessary as a result of the cut of $4.4 million in this area. I was advised in the October round that the economic division expected to begin this restructure within weeks of those hearings being completed. Has that restructuring been completed, and what has been the result of it? Mr Myers—We have concluded a restructuring within the division itself. That has called upon the merger of a number of sections to manage downsizing and running costs. In terms of the program implementation, what we have done during or since the last budget is to give cash allocation levels, certainly at a reduced level, out to the states. We have introduced flexibility for the states in terms of being able to use CEIS and business funding money in a more flexible manner, and we are managing the program now along those lines. Senator BOB COLLINS—Thank you. I was also advised during those estimate hearings, and you just mentioned it, about CEIS. I am correct, am I not, in saying that that was actually an initiative that arose out of deaths in custody? Mr Myers—Yes, it was. Senator BOB COLLINS—You told me then that you were evaluating that program. Has that evaluation been completed? Mr Myers—No, it has not been completed. We would expect it would take some months to conclude a worthwhile evaluation of a program of that size. Senator BOB COLLINS—And that is what? A couple of months from now? Mr Myers—I would expect a couple of months now before it is completed. Senator BOB COLLINS—I understand that that scheme disbursed funds of just over $20 million on 136 projects last financial year. Take the question on notice, by all means, if you do not have the detailed information, but I would like to know how many projects you expect to fund in this financial year and at what cost. Mr Rees—We would need, obviously, to take that on notice, because we will need to get the information from each state as to projections. Senator BOB COLLINS—I would be happy for you to take that on notice, thank you. My advice is that 17 per cent of last year’s funding was provided to projects in the Northern Territory. Again, feel free to take this on notice. I would like the detail of those territory specific projects. Mr Myers—Certainly. We would need to take that on notice, but we will get that for you. Senator BOB COLLINS—Do you expect the Northern Territory to maintain that proportional level of funding? Mr Myers—Yes. We came up with a formula some time back based on population and level of previous demand; funding is based fairly much repetitively on that, so we expect the Northern Territory would get a similar share, both this year and in future years. Senator BOB COLLINS—Great. Thanks very much. Senator Herron—Do you expect an increase? Mr Myers—It will depend on performance. We do evaluate the performance by each state at the end of each year. So, if certain states are not using all their CEIS funds and there is greater demand in other states, we would certainly be looking at making adjustments in subsequent years. FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION F&PA 132 SENATE—Legislation Wednesday, 5 March 1997 Senator BOB COLLINS—Thank you. I am happy to go on to 1.1.3—industries strategies— if you wish, Mr Chairman. CHAIR—Yes, that is fine. Senator BOB COLLINS—Unless any other senator wants to jump in, I will keep going and you can pull me up if you need to. CHAIR—Do you have any questions at all, Senator Watson? Senator WATSON—No. CHAIR—I think the floor is yours for a while, Senator Collins. Senator BOB COLLINS—Thank you. I understand that ATSIC is currently developing comprehensive strategies for the long-term effective participation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in the arts industry itself, the tourism industry and so on. I gather from the 1995-96 annual report that ATSIC aims to have the national industry strategies for those industries available for presentation to the government around the middle of this year. Is that still the target? Mr Myers—Yes, that is still our intention. The board at its last meeting approved the final drafts of those documents. We will now be taking them forward to ministers for consideration.