Transcription of Conversation about Nordic Fantasy at the Swedish Institute for Children's Literature Participants: Maria Nilson (interviewer), Karin Mossed and Kajsa Bäckius MN: Maria Nilson KM: Karin Mossed KB: Kajsa Bäckius Square brackets, [ ]: Notes about editing, showing of books and body language like smiling, laughing and gestures etc.. MN: I am sitting here with Karin and Kajsa, who are two of the definitely most well-read librarians in all of Sweden. KM: Oh! [smiles] MN: And we are going to talk about Nordic Fantasy. And one of the reasons that you are well-read is of course that at the Swedish Institute for Children’s Books, you keep track of everything that is published in Sweden. KM: Mm MN: So, you read a lot of books? 1 KM: Yes, we do. KB: Yes. MN: I want to start by asking you: Is there, or is it just my dream of it. Is it right to say that we see more fantasy now published by authors in the Nordic countries? KB: Yes! [laughs] KM: Yes, you are correct. We think you are right. It is not only dreams, it is for real. But we do see more fantasy all in all from every country. For instance, last year half of the young adult books where fantasy titles. And to compare with just a few years ago when the rate was different. MN: So, we are not just seeing… We also see more translations, aren’t we? KM: Yes. MN: Because I think a decade ago we had very few, I mean the big names were translated like Pullman and Tolkien, but now we have lots of more translations? KM: Yes. MN: And we have fantasy for all ages? KB: Yes, mostly young adults but also for younger children. MN: Is there a sort of age…? Do we have any kind of fantasy for children’s books, or at the age of seven or eight? Does the fantasy genre start with the age eleven to twelve, or is there fantasy for even very young children? KB: I think we can say it starts from six years old; six to nine. And then we have nine to twelve. There is quite… [hesitates and talks in Swedish: “Hur säger man att öka?”] 2 KM: Increase. KB: It increases with age. MN: And we were discussing this before the camera came on, that we are now handling fantasy very sort of loosely. In a way, maybe we are talking more about fantastic or speculative fiction? In sort of a broad sense. KM: Yes, that might be one of the reasons for us not to answer your questions like directly. Because there are so many hybrids and so many books that take place in… almost like in this world; urban fantasy. But then the… [hesitates and talks in Swedish: “Handling?”] MN: The intrigue, the story. KM: The story or the intrigue takes place just on another level, not always notable. So, it is more complicated now than before. We don’t see only high fantasy stories versus realistic stories. But a lot of umbrella… like a big umbrella. MN: And I think a good example of that is the two Fantasy series that has become huge successes in the Nordic countries, The Engelsfors Trilogy and that’s urban fantasy, and Siri Pettersen. KM: Yes! MN: And how would you…Siri Pettersen…Raven…? KM: The Raven Rings. MN: How would you define her books? It is a Norwegian author, and it is also a trilogy. KM: [Turns to KB] Do you want to talk about it? KB: No, you have read it. 3 KM: I have read all three of them [smiles and laughs]. KM: [Continues to talk] Well it is quite interesting that you picked just this one. Because the first book, Odin’s Child - a massive book - takes place in a totally different landscape or world, than the world as we know it. I would read it as a high fantasy book. Set in Norway maybe, or ancient Norway or anything like that. But in the second book, the protagonist Hirka from the first book, suddenly moves to London today and to Stockholm; today as well. So the world, or the trilogy, that was first known as a high fantasy book turned into urban fantasy. And in the third part or the third book… I don’t know if there are any spoiler alerts here, or supposed to be…[smiles] I think that goes to another level as well. I think Siri Pettersen has created a new kind of hybrid in her authorship. [The editor made a cut here] MN: But Cederlund is also interesting because we were talking before if there is, and it is always difficult; if there is something, if we can see a common theme in Nordic Fantasy? And that is always a bit tricky. But I am thinking about the Cederlund novel, because then we have a young author and she uses the Sami culture in that book. And you actually [nods at KM], can see a little bit of a trend in what material is used. So please, tell me more about that! KM: Especially in Cederlund or in Nordic…? MN: Yes! [nods and makes a hand sign that indicates that she means overall in Nordic Fantasy] KM: Firstly, if we do define Nordic Fantasy as fantasy written by Nordic authors, then we do see a lot of Nordic authors writing about their own heritage; the Nordic and Norse mythology and stuff. And Cederlund is one example, with the Sami culture and all those elements in that. [The editor made a cut here] MN: And when it comes to supernatural creatures, I am thinking that these things are not always easy in translations. Because we have seen so many translations of Astrid Lindgren for 4 example, Ronia, the Robber’s Daughter, where a lot of the creatures are called gnomes, and they are not gnomes! Or they are called something else… But they are a very specific kind of Nordic creature that you can’t find an English translation to. KM: Yes. MN: But why do you think we have an interest in Nordic mythology all over? We have like The Adventures of Thor, and I mean we not really recognize Thor from a Nordic point of view. That’s not really how Thor is in our old tales, isn’t it? KM: No, not at all. MN: So, why do you think Nordic writers find it interesting to use that kind of material? KM: [Turns to KB]. Do you want to? KB: No, I don’t know. KM: I think it is quite difficult to say one thing or the other, but in fantasy it has been… Fantasy fiction written by Nordic authors before were, I believe you can say more impressed, by translated books. And maybe a little bit fatigued, could you say that? MN: Mm KM: …in the others, and just want to look into where you stand or where you at. And maybe it is a little bit more interesting to find, and maybe reclaim, the Nordic symbols from other forces in life, in the world. Just to know, this is our heritage and could not be kidnapped by others. Maybe; it is just a personal reflection I made. But also, that there has been so much more fantasy written on other grounds, like from other mythologies. As for instance, old European religions like Roman and ancient Greece. MN: And the Celt; I am thinking a lot with Tolkien. KM: Yes, but Tolkien was also very… [hesitates and talks Swedish: “Vad sager man; 5 påverkad?”] MN: Influenced by. KM: Yes, influenced by the Norse mythology as well. What we see today is almost a little bit more like authors waving “Hi!” to Tolkien as well. And of course, George R.R. Martin. [The editor made a cut here] MN: You brought with you some books and that I think, is an interesting selection! Because in Sweden it used to be like, when you are my age, like twenty or thirty years ago there were not a lot of fantasy. And now we have much more fantasy. And I think the Pax Series is interesting because that is series that are deliberately written for young people who do not read. [The editor made a cut here] KB: [Shows the book Pax. Grimmen] Well this is low fantasy, or urban fantasy or what you call it. About two boys in this world, in Sweden. And they are chosen to… [The editor made a cut here] MN: Guard a magical library. KB: And they meet a lot of supernatural beings like the Grim. We can also read about the Grim in Harry Potter. MN: So, this is a little bit like fantasy, but also horror with sort of monsters and stuff? KB: Yes. MN: And it is aimed for a younger reader? 6 KB: Yes, nine to twelve approximately. It is a whole series of books, and every book ends with a cliffhanger, so you want to read the next book. MN: So, they are very much put together in order to encourage people to read? KB: Yes. And there are also a lot of pictures. MN: Yes. KM: It is a cartoonist who illustrated it, isn’t it? KB: Yes. MN: But they are quite beautifully done. KB: Yes. KM: Mm [nods]. MN: But also, quite dark, thinking that they are aimed for a younger reader. MN: [Continues to talk] But then the Engelsfors Trilogy, because you probably brought those as well… KM: Just the first one.