HEALTH AND COMMUNITY CARE COMMITTEE Wednesday 8 May 2002 (Morning) Session 1 £5.00 Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body 2002. Applications for reproduction should be made in writing to the Copyright Unit, Her Majesty’s Stationery Office, St Clements House, 2-16 Colegate, Norwich NR3 1BQ Fax 01603 723000, which is administering the copyright on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Produced and published in Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body by The Stationery Office Ltd. Her Majesty’s Stationery Office is independent of and separate from the company now trading as The Stationery Office Ltd, which is responsible for printing and publishing Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body publications. CONTENTS Wednesday 8 May 2002 Col. ITEM IN PRIVATE .................................................................................................................................. 2643 SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION.................................................................................................................. 2644 Food (Figs, Hazelnuts and Pistachios from Turkey) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/148).................................................................................................. 2644 Food (Peanuts from China) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/149)............ 2644 National Health Service (General Medical Services and Pharmaceutical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/153) .................................................................... 2644 Food (Jelly Confectionery) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/179) ............. 2645 Adults with Incapacity (Ethics Committee) (Scotland) Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/190) ...................... 2645 SCHOOL MEALS (SCOTLAND) BILL ......................................................................................................... 2646 BUDGET PROCESS 2003-04.................................................................................................................. 2681 HEALTH AND COMMUNITY CARE COMMITTEE 13th Meeting 2002, Session 1 CONVENER *Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD) DEPU TY CONVENER *Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab) COMMI TTEE MEMBERS *Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab) *Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow ) (SNP) *Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab) *Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab) *Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP) *Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con) *Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow ) (SNP) *attended THE FOLLOWING ALSO ATTENDED : Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con) Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow ) (SSP) WITNESSES John Aldridge (Scottish Executive Finance and Central Services Department) Dr Maureen Bruce (Scottish Executive Health Department) Malcolm Chisholm (Minister for Health and Community Care) Gillian Kynoch (Scottish Executive Health Department) Danny Phillips (Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland) Dr Wendy Wrieden (Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland) Ian Young (Health Education Board for Scotland) CLERK TO THE COMMITTE E Jennifer Smart SENIOR ASSISTANT CLERK Peter McGrath ASSISTANT CLERK Michelle McLean LOC ATION Committee Room 1 2643 8 MAY 2002 2644 Scottish Parliament Subordinate Legislation Health and Community Care Committee Food (Figs, Hazelnuts and Pistachios from Turkey) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Wednesday 8 May 2002 Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/148) The Convener: Item 2 on the agenda is (Morning) consideration of subordinate legislation. This morning we will consider five negative [THE CONVENER opened the meeting at 09:33] instruments. This is the reason why all of us entered politics—the first instrument for consideration is Item in Private the Food (Figs, Hazelnuts and Pistachios from Turkey) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): Good Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/148). No comments morning, everybody. Welcome to this morning’s on the instrument have been received from meeting of the Health and Community Care members. The Subordinate Legislation Committee Committee. has received from the Food Standards Agency I suggest that we consider in private agenda explanations of some issues that that committee item 5, which concerns a petition from Epilepsy raised regarding the regulations. No motion to Action Scotland and possible courses of action annul has been lodged, so the recommendation is arising from that. Is that agreed? that the committee does not wish to make any recommendation on the instrument. Is that Members indicated agreement. agreed? Members indicated agreement. Food (Peanuts from China) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/149) The Convener: The second instrument for consideration is the Food (Peanuts from China) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/149). No comments have been received from members. The Subordinate Legislation Committee has received from the Food Standards Agency explanation of some issues that it raised regarding the regulations. No motion to annul has been lodged, so the recommendation is that the committee does not wish to make any recommendation on the instrument. Is that agreed? Members indicated agreement. National Health Service (General Medical Services and Pharmaceutical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/153) The Convener: The third instrument for consideration is the National Health Service (General Medical Services and Pharmaceutical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/153). No comments have been received from members, and the Subordinate Legislation Committee has made no comments on the instrument. No motion to annul has been lodged, so the recommendation is that 2645 8 MAY 2002 2646 the committee does not wish to make any School Meals (Scotland) Bill recommendation on the instrument. Is that agreed? The Convener: Item 2 on our agenda is Members indicated agreement. consideration of the School Meals (Scotland) Bill. We are the secondary committee on the bill. Our Food (Jelly Confectionery) (Emergency first witness is Ian Young from the Health Control) (Scotland) Regulations 2002 (SSI Education Board for Scotland. Later we will hear 2002/179) from Gillian Kynoch, the Scottish Executive food and health co-ordinator. The Convener: The fourth instrument for consideration is the Food (Jelly Confectionery) Dr Maureen Bruce (Scottish Executive Health Department): My name is Maureen Bruce and I (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/179). No comments have been received am here to support Ian Young and Gillian Kynoch. from members, and the Subordinate Legislation The Convener: We will put the same questions Committee has made no comments on the first to Ian Young from HEBS and then to Gillian instrument. No motion to annul has been lodged, Kynoch. so the recommendation is that the committee does not wish to make any recommendation on the Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): instrument. Is that agreed? Do you believe that the provision of free school meals to all Scottish school children would have a Members indicated agreement. measurable impact on health? If so, how great would that impact be? Are you aware of any Adults with Incapacity (Ethics Committee) research that has been evaluated regarding the (Scotland) Regulations 2002 (SSI 2002/190) effect of school meal provision on health outcomes? The Convener: The fifth instrument for consideration is the Adults with Incapacity (Ethics Ian Young (Health Education Board for Committee) (Scotland) Regulations 2002 (SSI Scotland): Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 2002/190). No comments have been received I accept the basic premise that the inequities in from members, and the Subordinate Legislation our society are the biggest contributor to ill health Committee has made no comments on the and the health problems that exist in Scotland. instrument. No motion to annul has been lodged, There are significant problems with the food that so the recommendation is that the committee does our young people eat, both in and out of school. not wish to make any recommendation on the For that reason, the bill is to be welcomed. instrument. Is that agreed? The quality of school meals has become even Members indicated agreement. more important for young people because of other changes in our society. We accept some of the fundamental premises that are set out in the policy memorandum that is attached to the bill. Mary Scanlon asked whether there was evidence of the impact of school meals on health status. There is plenty of evidence relating to nutrition generally and its impact on young people’s health in their growing years. The policy memorandum refers to that evidence, which is sound. We also know that how young people eat has an impact on their later lives, because they establish dietary behaviours for the future. As we all know, a person’s eating patterns today are not unrelated to what the person ate when he or she was younger. That is something to reflect on. It is certainly true for me and I suspect that it is true for many people. The fact that you still like a piece and jam relates to your earlier upbringing and to what was available to fill you up when you were young. Young people are not unique in that respect. The arguments relating to the stigma that is attached to free school meals are less robust. If members read the original research that is quoted, 2647 8 MAY 2002 2648 they will