TRANSCRIPT A PINEWOOD DIALOGUE WITH KENNETH BRANAGH AND MICHAEL CAINE The prolific and legendary actor Michael Caine starred in both the 2007 film version of Sleuth (opposite Jude Law) and the 1972 version (opposite Laurence Olivier). In the new version, an actors’ tour de force directed by Kenneth Branagh and adapted by playwright Harold Pinter, Caine took the role originally played by Olivier. A riveting tale of deception and deadly games, this thriller about an aging crime novelist and a young actor in love with the same woman is essentially about the mysteries of acting and writing. In this discussion, Branagh and Caine discussed their collaboration after a special preview screening. A Pinewood Dialogue following a screening BRANAGH: Rubbish, of course. Rubbish. of Sleuth, moderated by Chief Curator David Schwartz (October 3, 2007): SCHWARTZ: Well, we’ll see, we’ll see. Tell us about how this project came about. It’s an interesting MICHAEL CAINE: (Applause) pedigree, because in a way, it’s a new version, an Good evening. adaptation, of a play. It seems like it’s going to be a remake of the film, but Harold Pinter, of course, KENNETH BRANAGH: Good evening. is the author here. DAVID SCHWARTZ: Welcome and congratulations BRANAGH: As you may have seen from the credits, on a riveting, very entertaining movie. one of the producers is Jude Law. He was the one who had the idea of making a new version, BRANAGH: Thank you. and it was his idea to bring onboard a man he thought he’d never get to do it, but Nobel Prize- CAINE: Thank you. winning Harold Pinter very kindly agreed to do it. SCHWARTZ: Could you tell us… (Laughs) I feel far Harold Pinter was an actor before he became a away from you. writer, and he appeared as an actor in many, many thrillers. And I think—although he told me CAINE: I only do what he does. during this, “I don’t do plot. I don’t do plot!”—he loves inheriting plot. So he took the theatrical BRANAGH: I do exactly what he does, as well. mechanics of the brilliant original from Anthony Schaffer and then he, you know, put his own very, CAINE: He keeps telling me what to do… very particular spin on it. And then the second inspired—well, the third inspired idea from Jude— BRANAGH: And then I do what I’m told. first the project, second Harold Pinter, and the third inspired idea was to, you know, to ask SCHWARTZ: Well, this is a film about directing and Michael. You might want to take up the story from acting, and we see the director usually wins, so… there, Michael. BRANAGH: Not in this case, believe me. (Laughter) CAINE: Jude asked me if I’d do this script, and because it was by Harold Pinter, I said yes. I CAINE: Right... it’s also about a director who’s a would never have remade the Anthony Schaffer better actor than the boys who are acting. script, because I think what Joe Mankiewicz and (Laughs) Larry [Laurence Olivier] and Schaffer and I did with the first one was good enough; there was really no point in remaking it. Where were you near the end of the meal, I thought, I can hold him going to go with it? off for dessert and I’ll be out of here. (Laughter) Then I said, “But, you know, that script by But what happened was that Jude took this to Anthony Schaffer was pretty good.” He said, “I Harold—who had never seen the film or the play, have a script by Harold Pinter.” And I went, “Ah, because Harold lives in a very separate world; I that’s different…” which is why I’m here tonight. mean, he probably wasn’t aware of what any of this was—he just got a script and a stage play. SCHWARTZ: Well, you made ninety films during Jude took the stage play and said, “Could you those fifty years, so it’s possible you might have write a screenplay of this?” He looked at it and he been busy when Harold Pinter called you. said, “Well, I’ll take the plot. I like the plot. But then I’ll write a completely new screenplay.” CAINE: Yes; there was a time when Harold might have offered me something, but I was always So what you just saw was not a remake of Sleuth, busy, yes. because there isn’t a single line of the original movie in this screenplay. It’s completely different. SCHWARTZ: So talk a bit about working with Also there are other things which are there. This Pinter’s dialogue? Since we’re talking about sort of homoerotic thing at the end was never in Harold Pinter so much, it’s so spare and there’s the other one. so much there, with such simplicity. BRANAGH: The other thing that had a nice sort of CAINE: From an actor’s point of view, Pinter’s circularity about it—and please jump in, dialogue: you have to be like a straight man with a Michael—was that some years ago Michael comedian. If you see a comedy duo, the straight appeared as an actor… man must stay straight. Otherwise it’s not funny, because he’s the contrast to the comedian, who CAINE: Oh, that’s right; yes. is doing things which are not what we would normally do. BRANAGH: Do tell, Michael. With Pinter, you have to stay absolutely straight CAINE: Well, I knew Harold. He was an actor called and natural. You say these things as though you David Baron, and he told me he was going to were speaking ordinary things, and everybody write plays under his own real name. I said, goes, “Oh, my God, what’s happening? He never “What’s your real name?” He said, “My real took any notice of that. He said that, it went right name’s Harold Pinter.” by.” And so you get to a situation in him where someone will come into a room—and Pinter uses He eventually wrote a one-act play called The [this]; I’ve seen it many times—and say good Room, and I did that at the Royal Court. That was evening, and everybody looks at each other and another reason I wanted to do the script: because goes, “What does he mean by that?” (Laughter) I did his very first play. Anything that he wrote was… The Room, and I did it in the Royal Court. You mustn’t try to be sinister, you mustn’t try to be funny; you must be real. That also applies to And then for fifty years, he wrote all this great movie comedy. You know, very often I’ve flipped stuff, and I was never offered any again! through the television—so you’ve not got the (Laughter) You know, I felt like saying, “I made sound on, you know—and I can see movies and you, I could break you!” (Laughter) But nobody people are going, “That’s a comedy.” I shouldn’t ever offered me anything! be able to see that, they should look like real people. I know that at that moment that it’s not So when, finally, Jude came and he said, first of only a comedy, it’s a very bad one. (Laughter) all, he said, “How do you feel about remaking Because I can see without the dialogue that Sleuth?” Well, I didn’t want to be rude... (Laughter) people are not acting like real human beings. The So I said, “That sounds like a good idea, Jude…” basic thing is stay straight, and Harold will take you know. (Laughter) We were having dinner; care of you. It’s him, all of it. TRANSCRIPT: A PINEWOOD DIALOGUE WITH KENNETH BRANAGH AND MICHAEL CAINE PAGE 2 SCHWARTZ: What was the production like? I know that the original Sleuth was a longer film, but also BRANAGH: Yes it was; and sometimes it was eight, a longer production. You had just come off of nine pages of dialogue a day. Multi-coverage; I making The Magic Flute (2006), a much bigger think we had two cameras at all times. But that film. intensity was very important, I think. The rehearsal got us very, very ready. We felt very prepared. But BRANAGH: Well, we took about a quarter of the also partly, to do exactly what Michael’s talking time to shoot the film, but the difference—that about—which he’s an undisputed master of; and Michael took for the one in 1972. But we Jude, also terrific—at producing a kind of rehearsed for a very long time. We had a read- spontaneous quality on the day. A curious through with all four of us in Twickenham Film paradox, when it’s all about preparation up to that Studios, where we shot the movie, in an empty point; but the point of the preparation is to be sound stage, where we showed up and Michael entirely free and relaxed and natural and said, “Oh, I remember this place. I did Alfie (1966) responsive and behavioral on the day. Not acting. here, I did Zulu (1964) here.” Harold Pinter came in, he said, “Oh, I like this place. I did The Servant CAINE: It’s a contradiction really, because you (1963) here, I did Accident (1967), I did The spend a great deal of work and time trying to look Quiller Memorandum (1966).” And Jude and I like you’re not doing anything.