JOINT REVIEW PANEL FOR THE ENBRIDGE NORTHERN GATEWAY PROJECT COMMISSION D’EXAMEN CONJOINT DU PROJET ENBRIDGE NORTHERN GATEWAY Hearing Order OH-4-2011 Ordonnance d’audience OH-4-2011 Northern Gateway Pipelines Inc. Enbridge Northern Gateway Project Application of 27 May 2010 Demande de Northern Gateway Pipelines Inc. du 27 mai 2010 relative au projet Enbridge Northern Gateway VOLUME 126 Hearing held at Audience tenue à Sheraton Vancouver Wall Centre 1088 Burrard Street Vancouver, British Columbia January 16, 2013 Le 16 janvier 2013 International Reporting Inc. Ottawa, Ontario (613) 748-6043 © Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Canada 2013 © Sa Majesté du Chef du Canada 2013 as represented by the Minister of the Environment représentée par le Ministre de l’Environnement et and the National Energy Board l’Office national de l’énergie This publication is the recorded verbatim transcript Cette publication est un compte rendu textuel des and, as such, is taped and transcribed in either of the délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée et official languages, depending on the languages transcrite dans l’une ou l’autre des deux langues spoken by the participant at the public hearing. officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le participant à l’audience publique. Printed in Canada Imprimé au Canada HEARING /AUDIENCE OH-4-2011 IN THE MATTER OF an application filed by the Northern Gateway Pipelines Limited Partnership for a Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity pursuant to section 52 of the National Energy Board Act, for authorization to construct and operate the Enbridge Northern Gateway Project. HEARING LOCATION/LIEU DE L'AUDIENCE Hearing held in Vancouver (British Columbia), Wednesday, January 16, 2013 Audience tenue à Vancouver (Colombie-Britannique), mercredi, le 16 janvier 2013 JOINT REVIEW PANEL/LA COMMISSION D’EXAMEN CONJOINT S. Leggett Chairperson/Présidente K. Bateman Member/Membre H. Matthews Member/Membre Transcript Hearing Order OH-4-2011 ORAL STATEMENTS/EXPOSÉS ORAUX Farah Shroff Ingrid Tamboline Kevin Afanasiff Johannah Wetzel Mike Gildersleeve Caitlin Birdsall Jeanette Ageson Urs Boxler Jenna Hunt Bill Darnell John Irwin Betty Davison Alan James Charles Easton Mary Ann Kae Rob Fleming Steve Lloyd Lorraine Fralin Hilary Mackey Myrna Franke Caitlin Meggs Elizabeth Haan Sebastian Merz Bryan Joe David Mivasair Gillian Darling-Kovanic Stan Proboszcz Eyal Lebel Nicholas Read Marc Lee Shelley Sorensen Karl Perrin Helga Sussmann Sheila Pratt Cornelia Sussmann Bev Ramey Andrea Sussmann Frances Sharpe Brianna Wright George Smith Kim Wright Marilyn Suddaby Transcript Hearing Order OH-4-2011 ERRATA (i) Monday, January 14, 2013 - Volume 124 Paragraph No.: Should read: 24484: “...systems that make up our plant.” “...systems that make up our planet.” 24497: “...the dangerously unknown territory...” “...the dangerous, unknown territory...” 24498: “A recent study in The Journal of Nature “A recent study in the journal Nature Climate Change shows...” Climate Change shows...” 24500: “...to keep fossil hydrocarbon out...” “...to keep fossil hydrocarbons out...” Transcript Hearing Order OH-4-2011 TABLE OF CONTENTS/TABLE DES MATIÈRES (i) Description Paragraph No./No. de paragraphe Opening remarks by the Chairperson 26134 Oral statement by Farah Shroff 26153 Oral statement by Marilyn Suddaby 26190 Oral statement by Kevin Afanasiff 26207 Oral statement by Mike Gildersleeve 26238 Oral statement by Bev Ramey 26266 Oral statement by Caitlin Birdsall 26277 Oral statement by Urs Boxler 26317 Oral statement by Bill Darnell 26357 Oral statement by Betty Davison 26393 Oral statement by Rob Fleming 26429 Oral statement by Charles Easton 26471 Oral statement by Lorraine Fralin 26491 Oral statement by Myrna Franke 26504 Oral statement by Elizabeth Haan 26546 Oral statement by Bryan Joe 26577 Oral statement by Gillian Darling-Kovanic 26599 Oral statement by Eyal Lebel 26632 Oral statement by Marc Lee 26650 Oral statement by Karl Perrin 26678 Oral statement by Sheila Pratt 26704 Oral statement by Frances Sharpe 26734 Oral statement by George Smith 26748 Oral statement by Ingrid Tamboline 26796 Oral statement by Johannah Wetzel 26818 Oral statement by Melissa Nelson 26841 Oral statement by Jeanette Ageson 26877 Oral statement by Alan James 26893 Oral statement by Mary Ann Kae 26916 Oral statement by Jenna Hunt 26935 Oral statement by John Irwin 26960 Oral statement by Hilary Mackey 26993 Oral statement by Steve Lloyd 27019 Oral statement by Caitlin Meggs 27040 Oral statement by Sebastian Merz 27054 Oral statement by David Mivasair 27085 Oral statement by Nicholas Read 27098 Oral statement by Stan Proboszcz 27112 Oral statement by Helga Sussmann 27149 Oral statement by Andrea Sussmann 27157 Oral statement by Cornelia Sussmann 27171 Transcript Hearing Order OH-4-2011 TABLE OF CONTENTS/TABLE DES MATIÈRES (ii) Description Paragraph No./No. de paragraphe Oral statement by Brianna Wright 27190 Oral statement by Kim Wright 27219 Oral statement by Shelley Sorensen 27243 Transcript Hearing Order OH-4-2011 Oral statements Exposés oraux --- Upon commencing at 1:00 p.m./L’audience débute à 13h00 26134. THE CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon, everybody. 26135. My name is Sheila Leggett; on my right is Mr. Hans -- no, Mr. Kenneth Bateman --- 26136. MEMBER BATEMAN: Hello. 26137. THE CHAIRPERSON: --- and on my left is Mr. Hans Matthews. 26138. MEMBER MATTHEWS: Hi. 26139. THE CHAIRPERSON: Just before we get underway, I just have some brief opening remarks I'd like to make. 26140. The Panel welcomes the participation of individuals who have and are taking the time to present thoughtful oral statements presenting relevant views on aspects of this application not previously expressed is helpful to us. 26141. People have expressed their views and recommendations about the application in front of the Joint Review Panel. Kenneth, Hans and I take our responsibilities to this process and the public seriously. 26142. Yesterday we had a disruption that caused a brief delay in our ability to hear oral statements from registered speakers who came here prepared to share their views with the Panel. Our experience has shown us that this venue is optimal for listening to the views delivered in a respectful manner from registered speakers. It's our role to have a venue and a process where this can occur and that can be respectfully observed by both the public and the media. 26143. In order to minimize potential disturbances in Vancouver, the Panel decided to create a viewing room separate from the hearing room. We will continue with this approach for the reasons outlined previously. 26144. We're confident that we can continue to hear oral statements in Vancouver by those registered to speak without any disruptions, delays or need for further changes to the process. 26145. So with that, let's get underway and listen to you because that’s what Transcript Hearing Order OH-4-2011 Oral statements Exposés oraux we're here to do. 26146. So Mr. Afanasiff, please proceed with your oral statement. 26147. MR. KEVIN AFANASIFF: I didn’t realize I was going first. I wasn’t first on the list but I'm okay with that. 26148. DR. FARAH SHROFF: I thought I was first so I you --- 26149. MR. KEVIN AFANASIFF: Whatever, it's --- 26150. DR. FARAH SHROFF: Do you want me to speak first, because I was first on the list? 26151. THE CHAIRPERSON: You sound like you're ready to speak, so why don’t you go ahead. 26152. Thank you. Thanks for your flexibility, Mr. Afanasiff. --- ORAL STATEMENT BY/EXPOSÉ ORAL PAR DR. FARAH SHROFF: 26153. DR. FARAH SHROFF: Yeah, great. Good afternoon, it's a pleasure to be here. I’m Farah Shroff -- Dr. Farah Shroff. 26154. I want to acknowledge that we are here on the land that has been beautifully stewarded by the First Nations, the Musqueams and other Coast Salish Nations and how lucky we are for their beautiful stewardship. I've lived here most of my life and I feel like I've benefited a great deal from their stewardship. 26155. So who am I? I'm a university professor; I'm a researcher, a scientist, and an educator. I'm also a mother and my husband and I are raising a third generation in West Point Grey which is on Musqueam land. 26156. And I also lived in the Northwest Territories where Justice Tom Berger led an inquiry which is very similar to the one that you're charged with leading and I was really pleased that democracy worked that time, that that pipeline inquiry was able to really listen to the people and actually heard the voices and put those into action and I’m hoping that your inquiry is going to do a very similar thing. So I hope that the history books, many years to come, will talk about this inquiry in a very similar tone to that of the Berger Inquiry. Transcript Hearing Order OH-4-2011 Oral statements Exposés oraux 26157. I believe that you know that there's a very strong and active people's movement against this pipeline and I'm here to speak as one of the members of that movement. I believe that this pipeline is not in the public interest and I think it's been shown many, many times how clearly Canadians have spoken out against the pipeline. Indigenous groups have spoken out very, very strongly. We know that more than 130 First Nations' bands are against this pipeline crossing over and near their lands. 26158. We also know that there's a very, very exciting movement going on right now called the “Idle No More Movement” and they also expressed a very strong interest in keeping their lands clear and clean just like their ancestors. We know that youths have spoken out against it. I can tell you as a resident in my neighbourhood that my neighbours in West Point Grey are also very strongly against it and that people from all over Canada are against it.