I I Data Sheet I Name of Interviewee: Julie Shingobe I Current Age: 62 Place of Birth: East Lake Refuge I Date of Birth: 1930 I Date of Interview: August 5, 1992 Project I Person Conducting Oral Interview: Dr. Anthony Godfrey Location of Interview: Mandy Lake, Rice Lake National Wildlife Refuge, I Minnesota HistorySociety I Vocal Clarity: Good Biographical Data: I Born near the East Lake WildlifeSocial Refuge area, Julie Shingobe currently lives in East Lake and works as a chemical dependency counselor for the Mille Lacs band. Formerly a District II/EastHistorical Lake Representative (1982-1986), I Julie Shingobe belongs to the Grand Medicine Society/Midewiwin and regularly attend ceremonialOjibwe dances. She is a college-graduate and her son I Mushkooub is presently the Commissioner of Eduction for the band. I Major ThemesLacs Addressed: Discusses severalMinnesota traditional seasonal activities at East Lake from the 1930s [ onward, such as ricing, fishing and maple sugaring; traditional practices Milleinvolving drum societies, the Ojibwe language and medicinal plants; and inter-band government relations and relations with the Minnesota Chippewa I Tribe (MCT). I Related Photographs Donated: I None given. I I I I Interview with Julie Shingobe Date of Interview: August 5, 1992 I Place of Interview: Mandy Lake, Rice Lake National Wildlife Refuge, Minnesota I Interviewer: Dr. Anthony Godfrey I Begin Tape One, Side One Godfrey: Today is August the 5th, and I'm sitting here in front of I Mandy Lake with Julie Shingobe of the East Lake band of Chippewas. And first, like, I need some personalProject data from I you. Your place of birth? I Shingobe: The East Lake Refuge. Godfrey: The East Lake Refuge. And whenHistory we droveSociety by the other I day, just a few minutes ago, you described how there was a village there. Could you perhaps describe that again? ! Shingobe: It was a really thrivingSocial village, as I remember it. My first remembrance I was probably four or five years old. I Historical Godfrey: When were you born? Ojibwe I Shingobe: I'm not quite sure. There's two dates. There's got 1929, and they got also 1930. I Lacs Godfrey: Oh, okay.Minnesota I Shingobe:Mille I have no birth certificate. I just have what the government agents that came around and took back to the Minnesota I Chippewa Tribe. I had to have affidavits confirming, from the elders. So I go by 1930. I Godfrey: 1930. So there was a village there before the refuge was there? I I 1 I I Shingobe: Oh, yesl Yes. That's way before my time, way before my I time. They had-as I remember it there was a schoolhouse there. They practiced our religion of the Midewiwin and in I our ceremonial dances. The people had horses and cows and chickens and gardens. There was many families there. I Godfrey: Hmm. About how many houses or families do you think were there? I Shingobe: What I recall as a child? I Godfrey: Mm-hmm. I know that was a long time ago. Project I Shingobe: Yes, it was. Maybe about twenty families. Godfrey: Twenty families? Okay, that's- I History Shingobe: It could be more. You know, as a childSociety you don't-because I was picked up by the government agents, my sister and I. I When we came back, they were gone. No, we came back, and it was still there. SocialThen we were picked up again. We I came back, and they were already gone, scattered. The government had taken Historicalover. I Godfrey: Now whereOjibwe did you go? I Shingobe: They sent-they took us to St. Benedict's in White Earth­ Mission,Lacs Catholic mission school. I Godfrey: This wasMinnesota when you were five or six? I Shingobe:Mille Five or six years old. Godfrey: And how long were you there? I Shingobe: I was there a year, in that school, and then I was sent back I again or taken back again. I'd say totally I spent about three years there. I 2 I I I I Godfrey: Three years. I Shingobe: But I was more fortunate than some, that my foster parents would come and get me, and, or other relatives-and still I managed to retain the languages, the traditions. There were some, you know, some that never had that chance. They lost the language. When we first went there, we could not I speak English. And we were really grossly punished for it, I too. Godfrey: In what way were you punished? Project I Shingobe: We were--lickings, beatings. I Godfrey: Really? History Shingobe: Like a strap or ruler or punished in someSociety other way­ I deprived of stuff. Constantly drilled into us, you know-"You speak English." Constantly drilled into us that we were I pagans, because we Socialwere not Christians, we were not Catholics. Our families, extended families-some of us would not give in to being baptized. I feel that we were I more fortunate than a lotHistorical of our people. I Godfrey: Yes. ThisOjibwe morning I was talking to Mabel [Albino], and she said that after that time, she couldn't speak the language. So you were probably- I Lacs Shingobe: She speaks the language. I Minnesota Godfrey:Mille She does? I Shingobe: We speak it together, but she's not as- I Godfrey: Not as well as- Shingobe: -fluent as I do. But she understands it, fluently. No, I I wouldn't say that. She speaks mostly English, but when I 3 I I she's with me, she can understand what I'm talking to, and I she will converse, but not as fluent as I do. I Godfrey: I see. Okay. And what happened to the village? I mean, you were gone. Do you know what happened? I Shingobe: At the time I didn't know what happened. You know, I was too young and stuff to understand that. It was just wherever I my relatives were, that was home. In later years that I understand that the eee, whatever, came in there and just forcibly removed them. And when they didn't, they just I torched their houses, and the United StatesProject government took it. They were displaced, and there was promises which I were never kept. Godfrey: What were those promises? I HistorySociety Shingobe: That we would have given homes, relocated. Land would be I bought. This is what I understood, or what I later learned what happened, through oral stuff. Social I Godfrey: Mm-hmm. Historical I Shingobe: At one time, that the government tried to take over on the lake, and weOjibwe went into federal court-I do remember that. A federal judge, Minneapolis-and we won to keep ricing on I the lake. Godfrey: RicingLacs here? I Minnesota Shingobe:Mille Mm-hmm. And control. I Godfrey: Who was the leader of the village at this time? Do you- I Shingobe: When I was young? I Godfrey: Yeah. I 4 I I I I Shingobe: I wouldn't know that. I don't think there was any specific leader. You know, in the old ways, whatever skill you had, that, you know, that was used. If there was a leader there, I or not a leader, but was good at interpreting, that's the one that would be used. And good at-I don't think there ever I was any leaders, 'cause we have our ceremonial dances which still exist today. In the Mille Lacs area and this area we have four ceremonial drums. In our language we call I those two keepers the bosses, but that's just specifically there. It's not like society, you know, today that there was a I leader. You'd have a spokesperson that would speak in specific things, ceremonial or other dealing with maybe was good at dealing with white men. [Bee flies Projectinto the truck and I mometarily interrupts conversation.] Oh, I don't know if we I should stay here. [Laughter.] Godfrey: Maybe if we roll the windows up a little bit. HistorySociety I Shingobe: -with the white men. That was my first-I'd probably be jumping all over. Going back to when I was kid, when they I first took me to, first knowingSocial about a white man. Just vaguely, you know. They would tell us, you know, about, about a [Chippewa word], you know, or [Chippewa word]. I White skin. Or long knifeHistorical means [Chippewa word]. You know, they used to carry the swords, the sabers, or I whatever. OjibweThat's the term, where it comes in. [Chippewa word]. I Godfrey: Interesting.Lacs Minnesota I Shingobe: [Chippewa word] means white skin. And the school­ Millefrightening-and when we first seen the nuns, you know, their habits. They wore habits in those days, and the priest. I And to this day, what I learned there-the concept of a devil. Because we just have-you know, when they talk about evil, I it was, you know, a bad god. Contrary to what's out there, they say the Indian has many gods. What there really is, is that God is in everything. So the term [Chippewa word] a I tree is [Chippewa word]-you know, only one. I 5 I I I Godfrey: Only one. I Shingobe: But in everything, you and I, and all living things. I don't know if I'm following your trail or not or where you are going. I Godfrey: No, I have no trail. I Shingobe: Oh, okay. I Godfrey: But I was kind of curious.