Tuesday Volume 570 12 November 2013 No. 75 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday 12 November 2013 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2013 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 781 12 NOVEMBER 2013 782 Looking at the estate as a whole we concluded that the House of Commons prison simply did not fit our strategic needs, but I am happy to discuss it with him in more detail on Monday. Tuesday 12 November 2013 Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): On the subject of the Ministry of Justice selling sites, I have The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock raised many times the issue of Fenton town hall, for which the Ministry of Justice and its predecessors have PRAYERS never paid a penny to rent or to purchase. Will the Minister now have a change of heart and give that [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] building back to the community of Stoke-on-Trent? BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman has stretched the elastic beyond snapping point. The question was broadened LONDON LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND TRANSPORT FOR by the content of the Minister’s answer, but not broadened LONDON (NO.2)BILL [LORDS] beyond the prison estate—that is the subject matter Third Reading opposed and deferred until Tuesday with which we are dealing. The hon. Gentleman is very 19 November (Standing Order No. 20). visible courtesy of his moustache so he can try his luck later. HERTFORDSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL (FILMING ON HIGHWAYS)BILL [LORDS] Second Reading opposed and deferred until Tuesday Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): In commending 19 November (Standing Order No. 20). my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) on his energetic campaign to save Wellingborough prison, may I gently suggest to the Minister that Government papers must have become muddled on this prison, because Oral Answers to Questions it is extremely cost-effective? It has one of the lowest costs per prisoner across the prison estate. The Minister says that lots of money is needed to improve the site JUSTICE but, having gone round it myself, I simply do not think that that is the case. May I urge him to take my hon. The Secretary of State was asked— Friend’s advice and look again at this wrong decision? HMP Wellingborough Jeremy Wright: First, I agree entirely with my hon. Friend that our hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough 1. Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): For what (Mr Bone) has done a first-class job in advocating for reasons he has decided to sell the site of HMP his constituents, as he always does. That is his job, but Wellingborough. [901028] my job is to look at the prison estate across the country. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice I am afraid that my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Jeremy Wright): The Government should manage the (Mr Hollobone) is not correct about the costs of running prison estate in the most efficient and effective manner. a prison, which are made up of several components, As my hon. Friend is well aware, Wellingborough prison and a significant one is the cost of maintenance and the closed in December last year. Since then, we have looked cost of maintaining accommodation standards. On our carefully at whether the site should form part of our estimates, it would cost £50 million to bring that up to long-term capacity plans, and we have concluded that it standard, which is why we concluded that it was right to should not. It is therefore in the taxpayer’s interest to close the prison. There is a separate consideration about avoid unnecessary holding costs and to dispose of the whether it is right to retain the site, but for reasons that site. I have explained we have decided that it not the right thing to do. Mr Bone: I thank the Minister for his response, but he is completely and utterly wrong. Wellingborough Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab): Can the prisons Minister prison is on a brownfield site, and there is massive room reassure the House that he and the Justice Secretary for expansion. People want an expanded prison there, know the figure at which Operation Safeguard kicks in, and millions of pounds have been invested in the prison. and that their officials have not advised them to introduce Will the Minister meet me to look at this again to stop it and that it will not be needed? him making a disastrous mistake? Jeremy Wright: The answer to the last question is yes Jeremy Wright: I can reassure the right hon. Gentleman and, indeed, I am scheduled to do so on Monday next that we are nowhere near requiring the provisions of week. I look forward to discussing this with my hon. Operation Safeguard. I have to remind him that his Friend in more detail. I am afraid that I do not accept Government needed to use Operation Safeguard which, that this was the wrong decision—we will discuss it in for those who do not know, is about using police cells more detail on Monday—but the original decision to because we have run out of prison cells. Not only did close the prison, as he knows, was based on the fact that the previous Government need to do that but they had substantial financial investment would be needed to to let people out early because they so mismanaged the bring it up to the required standard. The decision not to prison population. It takes some cheek for him to ask retain the site was, as I say, made after careful consideration. whether we are properly prepared. 783 Oral Answers12 NOVEMBER 2013 Oral Answers 784 Mr Rob Wilson(Reading East) (Con): Like Wellingborough, at the evidence session and I look forward to giving Reading prison has closed. Can the Minister reassure evidence to his Committee and discussing these matters me and my constituents that any disposal of the site will in greater depth. be undertaken in consultation with me and the local community? Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): I am a little hurt, Mr Speaker, that you have not seen fit to Jeremy Wright: I can reassure my hon. Friend that it mention my moustache, although it has been there a is important that when we look at the disposal of these while. sites, we work together with the local authority and On a very serious point, the much-heralded Peterborough other key stakeholders to make sure that that is done pilot has delivered a 6% cut in reoffending, whereas the properly. As he will appreciate, what happens to the site integrated offender management project in Surrey and now is predominantly a matter for the local planning Sussex probation trust has achieved a 55% cut in authority, not for us, but we will co-operate in any way reoffending. Does such evidence have no relevance to we can. the right hon. Gentleman? Probation Reforms Chris Grayling: The right hon. Gentleman will have to extend his moustache somewhat sideways if we are to give him credit in Movember. 2. Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): What assessment he has made of the potential effect of his If the right hon. Gentleman looks at what has been planned probation reforms on the rate of reoffending. achieved at Peterborough, he will see that the most [901029] recent figures published two weeks ago showed a 20% reduction in the number of crimes committed by that The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice cohort, by comparison with a comparable cohort elsewhere, (Chris Grayling): Extending statutory supervision and that the Peterborough pilot is making genuine progress, rehabilitation to every offender released from custody, and that the integrated offender management schemes introducing an unprecedented nationwide through-the-gate around the country are also making good progress. It is prison service, and bringing in innovation of a diverse not an either/or. Our plans do not exclude—indeed, will range of providers will help to reduce stubbornly high actively encourage—the continuation of such schemes, and rising reoffending rates. but the reality is that reoffending is still rising. Paul Blomfield: The Secretary of State will know that Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): Does the Secretary of South Yorkshire probation trust is a high-performing State agree that the common probation system is not organisation that has delivered five years of significant perfect, which is the picture being painted by the reductions in reoffending against predicted rates. Its Opposition? In that light, will he release the internal performance is described as excellent by his Department. inquiry report by the probation service into the case of He also knows that his Department’s internal risk register Stephen Ayre who, after leaving prison, abducted and warns that there is a more than 80% chance that his raped a 10-year-old boy in my constituency as a result proposals to privatise the probation service will lead to of some appalling failures both in the parole system an unacceptable drop in operational performance. Will and in the probation system? he recognise the risk, face the facts, put public safety first and think again? Chris Grayling: In normal circumstances in a serious further offence the family will see the report that is carried out. I will happily meet my hon. Friend to Chris Grayling: The real risk would be not to accept discuss the issue. He rightly highlights the very real the fact that reoffending is rising in this country, and challenge we face with reoffending in this country, that each year thousands of people are victims of crime because when it does take place, families are the victims committed by people who leave prison unsupervised of what happens and sometimes go through terrible and unguided.