LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 May 2016 8187 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 4 May 2016 The Council met at Eleven o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, B.B.S., M.H. 8188 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 May 2016 PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P., Ph.D., R.N. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S. THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 May 2016 8189 THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KENNETH CHAN KA-LOK THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI 8190 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 May 2016 THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. THE HONOURABLE TANG KA-PIU, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHUNG SHU-KUN, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE ALVIN YEUNG NGOK-KIU MEMBERS ABSENT: DR THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 May 2016 8191 PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: PROF THE HONOURABLE ANTHONY CHEUNG BING-LEUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING THE HONOURABLE NICHOLAS W. YANG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY MR YAU SHING-MU, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING DR DAVID CHUNG WAI-KEUNG, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL MS ANITA SIT, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MS DORA WAI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 8192 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 May 2016 PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber. (After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber) TABLING OF PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure: Subsidiary Legislation/Instruments L.N. No. Waste Disposal (Designated Waste Disposal Facility) Regulation (Amendment of Schedule 1) Notice 2016 ............................................................ 49/2016 Waste Disposal (Charge for Disposal of Construction Waste) Regulation (Amendment of Schedule 4) Notice 2016 ............................................................ 50/2016 Pharmacy and Poisons (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulation 2016 ........................................................................ 51/2016 Other Papers No. 91 ─ Quality Education Fund Financial statements for the year ended 31 August 2015 No. 92 ─ Education Development Fund Financial statements for the year ended 31 August 2015 No. 93 ─ Securities and Futures Commission Approved budget of income and expenditure for the financial year 2016/2017 No. 94 ─ Supplementary Legal Aid Fund Annual Report 2014 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 May 2016 8193 WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS Arrangement for Offsetting Severance Payments and Long Service Payments 1. MR TANG KA-PIU (in Chinese): President, one of the issues covered in a public consultation on retirement protection launched by the Government at the end of last year is the "offsetting" arrangement under the Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF) system (i.e. an employer may, under the Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Ordinance (Cap. 485), use the accrued benefits derived from the contributions he made for an employee to an MPF scheme to offset the severance payment (SP) and long service payment (LSP) payable to the employee under the Employment Ordinance (Cap. 57)). Some wage earners have relayed to me that the offsetting arrangement undermines their retirement protection substantially and they therefore hope that the Government will abolish the offsetting arrangement as soon as possible. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council: (1) whether it has analysed the impacts on society and the economy to be brought about by the modifications to the offsetting arrangement under different simulated options; if it has, of the specific contents of various simulated options, the analysis method employed and the timetable for completing the analysis; (2) in each of the past five years, of the following information concerning those employees employed by various government departments under non-civil service contracts whose accrued benefits were withdrawn for offsetting: (i) the number of employees involved, (ii) the total amount of accrued benefits withdrawn for offsetting, (iii) the total amount of accrued benefits remaining in MPF accounts after offsetting, and (iv) the total residual amounts of SP and LSP payable by the Government to the relevant employees after offsetting (set out in the table below); (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 8194 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 May 2016 (3) whether it knows, in each of the past five years, the following information concerning those employees employed by outsourced service contractors for providing public services whose accrued benefits were withdrawn for offsetting (set out in a table of the same format as the table above): (i) the number of employees involved, (ii) the total amount of accrued benefits withdrawn for offsetting, (iii) the total amount of accrued benefits remaining in MPF accounts after the offsetting, and (iv) the total residual amounts of SP and LSP payable by the employers to the relevant employees after offsetting; and (4) whether it plans to give an account of the results of the public consultation on retirement protection before the date from which the current term of the Legislative Council shall stand prorogued (i.e. 16 July 2016); if it does, of the timetable; if not, the reasons for that? SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Chinese): President, the Government's response to Mr TANG Ka-piu's question is as follows: (1) Two months remain before the public consultation on retirement protection ends on 21 June this year. While the "offsetting" of Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF) is one of the core issues in this consultation, its deliberation at the Commission on Poverty (CoP) or at the public consultation has yet to reach the stage of formulating concrete proposals. In the remaining period of the consultation, the Government will continue to listen to the views of different individuals and organizations, including academics and think tanks, on the "offsetting" arrangement under MPF, including any concrete proposals to address the "offsetting" problem, particularly on how to rationalize the relationship between severance payment/long service payment and MPF, as well as the role of the Government in facilitating the resolution of the "offsetting" problem. (2) The Civil Service Bureau has not collected relevant information on the amount and number of staff involved in claims made by individual bureaux/departments for offsetting severance payments and long service payments against MPF accrued benefits of Non-Civil Service Contract staff in the past. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 May 2016 8195 (3) The Government is not the employer of staff hired by outsourced service contractors and does not possess the MPF information in respect of the staff concerned. (4) On completion of the public consultation on retirement protection, the consultancy company will consolidate the views collected and conduct a comprehensive and objective analysis.