Tuesday Volume 542 13 March 2012 No. 278 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday 13 March 2012 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2012 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 119 13 MARCH 2012 120 Mr Clarke: As I have said, we are building on the House of Commons great work that is already being done, not least in my hon. Friend’s constituency. The purpose of prisons, it Tuesday 13 March 2012 seems to me, is first to punish for crime, and secondly to reform as many criminals as possible. The second aim has been neglected in recent years, but the kind of work The House met at half-past Two o’clock that my hon. Friend describes ought to be replicated as much as possible throughout the system, and that is the PRAYERS end towards which we are working. Richard Graham: I welcome the Secretary of State’s [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] comments. He knows about the existing business in Her Majesty’s prison Gloucester, where prisoners repair bicycles which a charity then sends to Africa. It is a not-for-profit BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS business. How does my right hon. and learned Friend think we could ensure that if the business were profitable TRANSPORT FOR LONDON (SUPPLEMENTAL TOLL it would not undercut businesses outside the prison, PROVISIONS)BILL [LORDS](BY ORDER) bearing in mind that paying the minimum wage might Second Reading opposed and deferred until Tuesday set a precedent in regard to other rights for prisoners? 20 March (Standing Order No. 20). Mr Clarke: One of the things about which we try to be scrupulous is ensuring that work in prisons does not Oral Answers to Questions undercut the work done by businesses employing honest employees outside. We would not be able to persuade organisations such as the CBI and our private sector partners to work with us if they thought that we were JUSTICE undercutting British competitors. We will not pay the minimum wage, because the taxpayer would find that he or she was footing the bill for it all. However, the The Secretary of State was asked— costs of running a business in prison are considerable because of the security that is imposed. We intend to Work in Prisons ensure, by means of a code of practice, that fair and proper competition is maintained and that we do not 1. Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): What undercut ordinary honest businesses. plans he has to promote work in prisons. [99255] Esther McVey: Given that, at present, 47% of offenders 4. Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): What plans are receiving out-of-work benefits two years after their he has to promote work in prisons. [99258] release from prison, I fully support what the Secretary of State is doing. What plans has he to ensure that there 6. Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): What plans he is a smooth transition from work preparation in prison has to promote work in prisons. [99260] to actual work outside prison? 9. Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) Mr Clarke: Along with the Department for Work and (Con): What plans he has to promote work in prisons. Pensions, we have just embarked on a system whereby [99264] people who are released from prison go straight on to the Work programme. Their receipt of benefits is tied to 16. Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con): What plans he a programme aimed at getting them back to work if has to promote work in prisons. [99272] that is at all possible, as it would be for anyone else. I entirely agree with my hon. Friend: all the evidence The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice shows that having a job is one of the main factors that (Mr Kenneth Clarke): We have ambitions to deliver a determine whether someone stops returning to crime, step change in the amount of work done in prisons. and it also stops the taxpayer having to pay benefits to By making use of the lessons learned from the prisons such a high proportion of ex-prisoners. that are already delivering full working weeks, we will work with the public and private sectors—including Mr Evennett: If my constituents are to have faith in commercial customers and partners—and through the work in prisons, it is vital that inmates not only learn to prison competition system to make our ambitions real. work, but learn to become used to the routine of work. How much time per week does my right hon. and Matthew Hancock: The Secretary of State will know learned Friend expect to be assigned to prisoners for of the great work being done in Her Majesty’s prison work? Highpoint, in my constituency, which is one of our biggest category C prisons. Enabling third sector, private Mr Clarke: Just the routine of working is very important. and other providers to work with prisoners before they I believe that 13% of prisoners have never had a paid are released has improved their chances of finding job in their lives, and about half have not been in a paid accommodation and work on release. What further job in the last month before they arrive in prison. We action is the Secretary of State taking to ensure that aim to have a 40-hour week whenever possible, consistent that is replicated throughout the country? with the other demands of the prison regime. Apart from 121 Oral Answers13 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 122 skills and training, just getting people used to the daily monitor whether they are taking their medicine at the routine of a working day is a good preparation for an appropriate time. What steps is the Department taking, honest life in the outside world. alongside the Department of Health, to ensure that appropriate medicines, including longer-lasting medicines Fiona Bruce: Many people hope that inmates will such as injections that last a month, are part of the take advantage of work in prison so that they can pay process, thereby helping people to have a smooth transition something back to society and victims. What levels of phase? compulsion will the work schemes involve, and what will happen if some prisoners choose to refuse to work? Mr Clarke: The hon. Lady has listed almost all the measures to which we are giving the highest priority in Mr Clarke: Although some very good work is being trying to make prisons reforming institutions. We have done in prisons at the moment, and although there addressed work and drugs. Alcohol has not yet arisen, always have been one or two prisons in which a fair but mental illness is also a very serious issue. We are amount is happening, we will not be able to provide well advanced, in co-operation with the Department of work for all prisoners for quite a long time. Our aim is Health, in making plans for diversion services for those to get a much higher proportion into work, and for that who ought to be diverted out of the criminal justice reason employees in prison will be volunteers. That is system and given secure treatment for mental illness welcomed by private sector partners who like to have a elsewhere. Through the Department of Health, we are say in their work force, and who want a properly motivated also greatly improving the treatment facilities for those work force consisting of people who are trying to get who have to stay in prison. Mental health must be themselves into a better state to go straight when they tackled, especially if it is the real root of the criminality leave. of someone in prison—and, indeed, some such prisoners should not be in prison at all. Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): The Lord Chancellor will know that 51% of those who enter the prison Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Does system have a drug dependency. What programmes to the Secretary of State have any plans to adopt the assist them will he have in place to enable them to Policy Exchange report recommendation that prisoners undertake this work? should be paid, but in turn should use their wages to pay for perks such as televisions, Freeview boxes and Mr Clarke: Actually, an even higher proportion than gym equipment, just as the rest of us in the outside that have abused drugs in the month or two before they worldhavetodo? arrive in prison. We are currently opening the first drug rehabilitation wings in prisons, and we hope to have Mr Clarke: Prisoners pay for some of those things drug-free wings, too. We are upping the effort to deal already, although the innovation we are putting in place with the drugs problem, which is a very large cause of is to make provision from the earnings of prisoners for the criminality of many of the people in our prisons. payment to victim services and to dependants outside. I Obviously, it should be given a much higher priority agree that we are not just giving prisoners pocket money. than it has sometimes had in the past. We are giving them money from which they should, perfectly properly, make payment for those things for Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): How many companies which they ought to be paying, including some reparation on the outside does the Secretary of State expect to be to their victims.