United States of America s14

11 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 3 + + + + + 4 5 FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION 6 7 + + + + + 8 9 CONSUMER ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING 10 11 + + + + + 12 13 FRIDAY, 14 JUNE 15, 2012 15 16 + + + + + 17 18 The Advisory Committee met in the 19 Commission Meeting room, 445 12th Street, 20 S.W., Washington, D.C., at 9:00 a.m., Debra 21 Berlyn, CAC Chairperson, presiding. 22 23 PRESENT: 24 25 DEBRA BERLYN, Chairperson 26 CHARLIE ACQUARD, National Association of 27 State Utility Consumer Advocates 28 CHRIS BAKER, AARP 29 ED BARTHOLME, Call for Action 30 ANN BOBECK, National Association of 31 Broadcasters 32 RICK CHESSEN, National Cable and 33 Telecommunications Association 34 MARY CRESPY, Verizon Communications, Inc. 35 MARK DeFALCO, Appalachian Regional Commission 36 CECILIA GARCIA, Benton Foundation 37 LISE HAMLIN, Hearing Loss Association of 38 America 39 MITSUKO HERRERA, Montgomery County, MD, 40 Office of Cable & Broadband Services 41 JULIE KEARNEY, Consumer Electronics Assn. 42 REBECCA LADEW, Speech Communication 43 Assistance by Telephone, Inc. 44 FERNANDO R. LAGUARDA, Time Warner Cable2 3 NEAL R. GROSS 4 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 5 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 6 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 LUISA LANCETTI, T-Mobile USA, Inc. 2 IRENE E. LEECH, Consumer Federation of 3 America 4 CLAYTON LEWIS, Coleman Institute for 5 Cognitive Disabilities 6 MIA MARTINEZ, National Asian American 7 Coalition 8 KEN McELDOWNEY, Consumer Action 9 ART NEILL, Utility Consumer's Action 10 Network 11 STEPHEN POCIASK, American Consumer 12 Institute 13 STEPHANIE PODEY, National Cable and 14 Telecommunication Association 15 PAUL SCHROEDER, American Foundation for 16 the Blind 17 CLAUDE STOUT, Deaf and Hard of Hearing 18 Consumer Advocacy Network 19 BARRY UMANSKY, Digital Policy Institute 20 DOROTHY WALT, Helen Keller National 21 Center for Deaf-Blind Youth & Adults 22 OLIVIA WEIN, National Consumer Law Center 23 24 ALSO PRESENT: 25 AJIT PAI, FCC Commissioner 26 MIGNON CLYBURN, FCC Commissioner 27 JESSICA ROSENWORCEL, FCC Commissioner 28 ROBERT ALDERFER, Incentive Auctions Team, 29 Wireless Telecommunications Bureau 30 JAMES BIRD, Senior Attorney, Head of 31 Transaction Team, Office of General 32 Counsel 33 SHARON BOWERS, Chief Consumer Complaints and 34 Inquiries Division, CGB 35 DEBORAH BRODERSON, Legal Advisor, CGB 36 MICHAEL CAROWITZ, Acting Chief of Staff, CGB 37 ELIZABETH CROCKER, Executive Director, 38 Foundation for Rural Services 39 THOMAS KOUTSKY, Chief Policy Counsel, 40 Connected Nation 41 SCOTT MARSHALL, FCC 42 KRIS MONTEITH, Acting Bureau Chief, FCC 43 MARK STONE, Deputy Bureau Chief, CGB 44 KAREN PELTZ STRAUSS, Deputy Bureau Chief, CGB 11 T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S 2 3 WELCOME/CALL TO ORDER: 4 Debra Berlyn, Chairperson...... 5 5 6 INTRODUCTIONS:...... 6 7 NEXT MEETING DATE IN OCTOBER:...... 11 8 9 BUREAU UPDATE: 10 Kris Monteith, Acting Bureau Chief.. .13 11 CRAMMING AND PSAP: 12 Mark Stone, Deputy Bureau Chief...... 18 13 DISABILITY ISSUES: 14 Karen Peltz Strauss, D. Bur. Chief.. .23 15 CONSUMER OUTREACH: 16 Roger Goldblatt, CBG...... 32 17 Michael Carowitz, Act. Chief Staff.. .38 18 QUESTIONS/DISCUSSION:...... 39 19 20 REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER J. ROSENWORCEL:....46 21 Questions/Comments:...... 49 22 23 FCC INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: 24 Debra Berlyn, Chairperson...... 53 25 Joyce Dickerson, SC Councilwoman.....56 26 Marlin Blizinsky, V. Chair ...... 61 27 Tom Sloan, Representative KS...... 62 28 Ken Fellman, attorney...... 64 29 Radhika Karmarkar, NYC...... 64 30 31 CONSUMER COMPLAINT REFORM: 32 Deborah Broderson, CGB...... 68/91 33 Sharon Bowers, CCCID...... 69/89 34 Questions/Discussion:...... 93/185 35 36 REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER M. CLYBURN:...... 79 37 Questions/Comments:...... 86 38 39 REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER A. PAI:...... 113 40 Questions/Comments:...... 116 41 42 BROADBAND ADOPTION: 43 Thomas Koutsky, Connected Nation....127 44 Elizabeth Crocker, FRS...... 1462 3 NEAL R. GROSS 4 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 5 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 6 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S 2 3 BROADBAND ADOPTION (Continued): 4 Cecilia Garcia, Benton Foundation.. .155 5 Questions/Discussion:...... 163 6 7 SPECTRUM, WIRELESS TELECOMMUNICATIONS BUREAU: 8 Robert Alderfer...... 196 9 Questions/Discussion:...... 210 10 11 FCC WEBSITE - DISCUSSION: 12 Debra Berlyn, Chairperson...... 217 13 Ed Bartholme...... 218 14 Discussion:...... 221 15 16 AFTER THE MERGER: WHAT'S FCC'S ROLE?: 17 James Bird, OGC...... 241 18 Questions/Discussion:...... 257 19 20 WORKING GROUPS: 21 Disability: 22 Lise Hamlin...... 271 23 Rebecca Ladew...... 274 24 Media: 25 Barry Umansky...... 276 26 Recommendation 1 (EAS):...... 279 27 Motion/Vote to Approve:...... 282 28 Recommendation 2 (Spectrum):...... 283 29 Vote to Refer Back/Hold Off:...... 313 30 Consumer: 31 Ed Bartholme...... 314 32 Table Recommendation:...... 316 33 Broadband: 34 Mark DeFalco...... 317 35 Recommendation 1:...... 318 36 Vote to Accept:...... 325 37 38 SETUP TASK FORCE FOR FCC FEEDBACK:...... 327 39 40 ADJOURN: 41 Debra Berlyn, Chairperson...... 329 42 43 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S2 8:52 a.m.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Good morning,4 everyone, and welcome to the Consumer5 Advisory Committee meeting. Thank you all6 for those of you who got here a little early7 this morning and we were able to get your8 coffee. I appreciate that. And we have a9 very full agenda.10 Once again, Scott has done a11 fantastic job of pulling together this12 program. I helped a little and so did some13 of you, so thank you very much.14 But we do have a really good15 program and you will see during the course of16 the day. And we will try and keep as much as17 we can on schedule, but we do have some18 special guests joining us this morning, as19 you will see from the agenda.20 The first thing I would like to21 do is to go around and introduce ourselves.22 We have some of you who may be here for the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 first time, if you are substituting for2 someone else. So let's introduce ourselves.3 I'm Debra Berlyn, Chair of the4 CAC, and representing the National Consumers5 League. And let's go around to Barry.6 MR. UMANSKY: Good morning. I'm7 Barry Umansky of the Digital Policy Institute8 at Ball State University. And my colleague,9 Robert Yadon, is here as well.10 MR. POCIASK: And I'm Steve11 Pociask. I'm with the American Consumer12 Institute.13 MR. BARTHOLME: I'm Ed Bartholme14 with Call For Action.15 MS. WALT: Good morning,16 everyone. I'm Dorothy Walt. I'm a Regional17 Representative for the Helen Keller National18 Center, the Northwest Region. I'm happy to19 see everyone this morning.20 MR. LAGUARDA: Good morning. My21 name is Fernando Laguarda and I'm22 representing Time-Warner Cable.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. BOBECK: Good morning,2 everyone. I'm Ann Bobeck from the National3 Association of Broadcasters. And I just want4 to welcome also our three summer interns who5 are here. So good morning.6 MS. PODEY: Good morning. I'm7 Stephanie Podey from NCTA. I'm an alternate8 for Rick Chessen.9 MS. LANCETTI: Good morning, all.10 Louis Lancetti here with T-Mobile and also11 with an intern in the audience, Aveny Bell.12 CHAIR BERLYN: If you all could13 remember as you go around to wait for the14 mikes to come on. Thanks.15 MR. BERGMANN: Hi, I'm Scott16 Bergmann on behalf of CTIA. And we represent17 global wireless providers and equipment and18 handset manufacturers and applications19 developers that bring wireless products to20 consumers.21 MS. LADEW: Hello. I'm Rebecca22 Ladew and representing the Speech1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Communications Assistance by Telephone, Inc.2 I would also like to add a happy Father's Day3 for all of you who are fathers.4 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin. I'm5 representing Hearing Loss Association of6 America.7 MR. STOUT: Hello. Claude Stout8 and I'm with Deaf and Hard of Hearing9 Consumer Advocacy Network.10 MS. MARTINEZ: Good morning. Mia11 Martinez with the National Asian American12 Coalition.13 MR. DeFALCO: Thank you. Mark14 DeFalco with the Appalachian Regional15 Commission.16 MS. CRESPY: Good morning. I'm17 Mary Crespy with Verizon.18 MS. GARCIA: Good morning Cecilia19 Garcia with The Benton Foundation.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Did we miss21 anyone? Ken, did you introduce yourself?22 MR. McELDOWNEY: I didn't because1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I didn't have a name tag. I'm Ken McEldowney2 from Consumer Action.3 CHAIR BERLYN: And?4 MR. MARSHALL: And I'm Scott5 Marshall.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Excellent.7 And we do have some -- do we have anyone now8 on the telephone?9 MR. LEWIS: Yes. This is Clayton10 Lewis, Coleman Institute.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Clayton Lewis.12 Okay. Great. Anyone else?13 MR. NEILL: Hi, this is Art14 Neill, good morning from the west coast,15 representing Utility's Action Network.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. And anyone17 else? Okay. 18 MS. HAMLIN: Could you repeat19 those two names, because they didn't come20 across and I could not hear them.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. Clayton22 Lewis is on the line and Art Neill.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Okay. Well, welcome everybody.2 The first order of business, I would like to3 thank NCTA for providing our meals this4 morning. So, Stephanie and Rick Chessen,5 thank you very much. We appreciate that.6 And our first speaker Kris7 Monteith, the Bureau Chief, Acting Bureau8 Chief for Consumer and Governmental Affairs9 will be down momentarily. So that we will10 get started shortly.11 Yes, well, Scott, we can do that.12 And meanwhile, I want to know if anyone has13 any questions about our program today? As14 you know, we will be having most of our15 program sessions this morning and then we do16 have our working group session meeting right17 after lunch, soon after lunch. Actually, not18 right after lunch. And then we have our19 recommendations that will be discussed after20 that.21 So hopefully you all will be able22 to stay. I know Ken has a flight towards the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 end of the day, but other than that, I hope2 that you all will be able to stay for the3 full program. It is important that we have4 your full participation for the discussions5 on the recommendations. We have some very6 interesting ones today and those are really7 important.8 Does anyone have any questions?9 Yes, Lise?10 MS. HAMLIN: Yes, I just had a11 quick question here. Well, I noticed that it12 doesn't talk about a next meeting.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. Yes, we --14 and it's a very good question and something15 that I did want to discuss at some point16 today. So I will discuss that right now.17 We do have a next meeting planned18 for the month of October. And Scott is19 working with logistics to find out20 availability for here in the meeting room.21 Most likely another Friday, those are the22 best days to get availability here. And also1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 we traditionally try and make them for2 Fridays.3 So we are looking at a Friday in4 October for the next meeting. 5 I think some of you may know6 this, but perhaps not all of you know this,7 that the CAC has a two-year charter and our8 charter actually ends in November of this9 year, which means that October is our last10 meeting of this Consumer Advisory Committee.11 So Scott and I may talk a little12 bit more about that later, but that -- you13 know, it's one of those things where it comes14 as a bit of a surprise because we actually15 started with our first meeting the August16 after we would have officially been17 chartered. So it gave us just a little bit18 over a year.19 So we will talk a little bit more20 about that later.21 I see Kris is here. Perfect22 timing. We are ready for you. So thank you1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 very much and, Kris Monteith, Acting Bureau2 Chief. Thank you for joining us.3 MS. MONTEITH: Yes, absolutely.4 Good morning, everyone. It's great to see5 you here. And we certainly appreciate your6 coming today and helping the Commission to7 advance its Consumer Protection and8 Empowerment agenda.9 Since we last met in February,10 the Bureau has had a busy time. Lots of11 things going on and I will just mention a12 couple of the things that we have been13 working on at a high level. And I did the14 smart thing and brought the experts with me15 who can address them in more depth.16 So in a nutshell, over the course17 of the last few months, we have released two18 significant Commission level items on19 important issues Cramming and PSAP Do-Not-20 Call and several Bureau-level items on21 equally important issues, such as TRS and22 Caller ID.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 We have taken some important2 steps towards launching the National Deaf3 Blind Equipment Distribution Program and4 sought nominations for the second annual5 Chairman's Award for Advancement and6 Accessibility.7 We released our Consumer8 Complaint Quarterly Report numbers of the9 first quarter of 2012 and the second quarter10 will follow shortly.11 We have exhibited major industry12 and consumer conferences to educate consumers13 on key telecom issues. In conjunction with14 other parts of the Agency, we worked with15 industry on Consumer Protection issues, such16 as stolen and lost cell phones to address17 those issues in a voluntary way and issued18 new FAQ sheets and guides to educate19 consumers.20 We have undertaken a number of21 important listening and consultation sessions22 with Native Nations and have done a soft1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 launch of our new Native Learning Labs. And2 we have hosted our fourth state and local3 webinar.4 These are just a few of the5 things we have been working on. It has been6 a very busy few months, a very interesting7 few months for me personally and8 professionally and, of course, there are lots9 of things going on at the Commission outside10 of CGB, which will be a part of your agenda11 and discussion, we'll touch on a couple of12 those.13 I know that you have previously14 talked with Josh Gottheimer, the Chairman15 Senior Counselor, on a wide range of issues16 and most particularly broadband and the17 public/private initiatives effort the18 Commission has going on.19 Today, you will continue the20 discussion on broadband adoption with outside21 advocacy organizations and, of course, your22 own member, The Benton Foundation.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Broadband availability and2 adoption is such a critical issue for the3 country and the Commission, reiterated again4 with yesterday's executive order, removing5 barriers to broadband infrastructure6 deployment on federal lands and buildings and7 making it easier to deploy high-speed8 Internet across the country.9 I hope you will share with the10 Commission your thoughts and recommendations11 on how we can address these types of barriers12 faced by many communities across the nation.13 The Spectrum is another critical14 issue facing the country as the Commission15 looks at ways to make sure that we use this16 finite resource efficiently and effectively17 and properly allocate Spectrum among many18 competing interests. Please, help us ensure19 that the interests of consumers are not lost20 in the mix.21 With respect to mergers, we are22 all very aware that consumers have interests1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 at stake when mergers take place. There is a2 role for the CAC to play in helping the3 Commission to monitor merger conditions,4 which we often impose as these transactions5 move forward, and I'm happy to see you6 consider this topic.7 On Universal Service, thank you8 very much for your extensive recommendations.9 We know that the Universal Service Working10 Group is engaged with our outreach team as we11 begin spreading the word regarding our new12 Lifeline roles.13 Later this morning, you will be14 hearing from folks in CGB that are working on15 our consumer complaint process. We are16 hoping to make changes that will make the17 process more transparent and consumer-18 friendly, which will allow us to better19 utilize the information we receive from20 consumers in our rulemakings.21 We look forward to your22 recommendations about this topic, which1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 really encompasses many of CGB's and the2 Commission's systems and processes, including3 our telephone IVR system, our website and, of4 course, the complaint forms themselves.5 Finally, I note that you are6 addressing other timely issues, including7 EAS, which has been updated for the first8 time since the 1960s and the issue of third-9 party wireless shutdowns.10 In short, it has been busy, lots11 on our plates. I'll turn it over to Mark and12 Karen and Roger Goldblatt is also here to13 address our outreach efforts and we would14 certainly like your input on some of those15 issues as well.16 Again, we greatly appreciate your17 sharing your time and your expertise with the18 Commission. Mark?19 MR. STONE: Good morning. I want20 to highlight for you two of the major items21 that our Policy Division has accomplished22 since you met last February.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 First, I want to discuss the new2 Rules on Cramming. And second is an NPRM to3 begin establishing a Do-Not-Call Registry for4 public safety answering points.5 First, Cramming. I mentioned at6 your last meeting that the Commission had7 proposed rules to help consumers avoid8 Cramming, which is the placement of9 unauthorized charges on phone bills.10 On April 27th, the Commission11 adopted new rules to address Cramming and12 sought further comment on potential further13 steps to help consumers. I want to highlight14 a couple of the things the Commission did.15 First, the Commission required16 landline telephone companies to notify17 subscribers at the point of sale on each bill18 and on their websites of the options to block19 third-party charges from their landline20 telephone bills, if the carrier offers that21 option.22 Second, it strengthens the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Commission's requirement that third-party2 charges be separated from the landline3 telephone company's charges on phone bills.4 And third, it asks whether the5 Commission should adopt additional6 protections, such as requiring landline7 telephone companies to get consumer consent8 before placing those third-party charges on9 their telephone bills, if the company already10 offers to block such charges.11 And fourth, it asked about12 Cramming for commercial and mobile radio13 service, such as wireless telephone companies14 or providers of Voice-Over-Internet-Protocol15 service. The Commission said it would16 monitor complaints from consumers of these17 services.18 Comments on the further notice19 are due June 25th and reply comments on July20 9th.21 The second major item Kris22 mentioned that we have been working on is a1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Do-Not-Call Registry for public safety2 answering points. The Commission adopted3 NPRM on this on May 21st.4 First, a bit of background. A5 provision of the Middle Class Tax Relief and6 Job Creation Act of 2012 requires the7 Commission to initiate within 90 days of8 enactment a proceeding to create a9 specialized Do-Not-Call Registry for public10 safety answering points.11 This provision addresses concerns12 about the use of automatic dialing equipment13 or robocalls which can generate large numbers14 of phone calls in a short time, tie up public15 safety lines, divert critical responder16 resources away from emergency services and17 impede access by the public to emergency18 services.19 The NPRM initiated a proceeding20 to establish a registry that allows PSAPs to21 register telephone numbers on a PSAP-specific22 Do-Not-Call List and prohibit the use of1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 automatic dialing equipment to contact those2 registry numbers.3 The PSAP Registry would build4 upon the existing protections under the5 Telephone Consumer Protection Act against the6 use of auto dialers to contact emergency7 numbers by precluding operators of automatic8 dialing equipment from using such equipment9 to contact any number included on the10 registry.11 The NPRM seeks comment on the12 structure and operation of the proposed13 registry setting forth several proposals.14 The NPRM asks about the most efficient means15 of establishing a registry, the process for16 accessing the registry by operators of that17 equipment, safeguards to protect numbers in18 the registry from unauthorized disclosure or19 dissemination, rules to prohibit the use of20 automatic dialing equipment to contact21 numbers on the registry and enforcement22 provisions contained in the Tax Relief Act.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Among the specific questions the2 NPRM asked is which PSAP numbers should be3 included on the registry? Is the FTC's4 approach to the National Do-Not-Call Registry5 a useful and effective model for the PSAP6 Registry? What should be the process for7 verifying and updating PSAP numbers in the8 registry?9 How should the registry be made10 available to operators of automatic dialing11 equipment? And finally, does the12 Communications Act and the Middle Class Tax13 Relief Act give the Commission authority to14 propose fines for a first violation of the15 Act's provision or must the Commission first16 issue a citation to a non-regulated violator17 as required by the Standard Enforcement18 Provisions of Section 503 of the19 Communications Act?20 In closing, I want to thank all21 of you for your hard work on these key22 consumer issues. It really does make a1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 difference both to CGB and the rest of the2 Commission. Thanks again.3 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Hi. I'm4 Karen Strauss. It's great to see all of you5 again. I'm going to give you an update on6 all that we have been doing on the disability7 issues.8 The first major thing is9 Internet-based captioning. As many of you10 know, in January we released rules that are11 going to require that all television programs12 shown with captions on TV must contain those13 captions when moved to the Internet.14 And I believe that I already15 talked to you about this last time, but just16 as a quick review, the rules are going to be17 going into effect beginning this coming18 September. So I'm not sure you are meeting19 before then, so I just thought I would remind20 you of that.21 And that particular set of rules22 cover pre-recorded programming that is not1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 edited for Internet distribution. Once those2 programs are shown on TV with captions, when3 they are shown for Internet distribution,4 they will have to be captioned as of5 September 30th.6 March 30, 2013, the rules apply7 to live and near-live programming. Near-live8 is programs such as late night programming.9 And on September 30, 2013, the rules are10 extended to pre-recorded programming edited11 for Internet distribution.12 There are different rules that13 are a little further out for archival14 programming, that is programming that is15 already in an Internet distributor's library.16 After those programs are shown on TV, those17 distributors have a little bit of extra time.18 That's the first item in CVA.19 The 21st Century Communications and Video20 Accessibility Act that I wanted to mention.21 The second item is video22 description. As you probably know, many of1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 you are already familiar with a lot of this.2 Our rules on video description are going to3 go into effect this July. It's very exciting4 for the blind and visually impaired5 community.6 These rules were originally7 adopted by the Commission in the year 20008 and they were overturned by a Federal Court9 for lack of authority. In the CVAA Congress10 instructed the Commission to reinstate the11 rules. And so these rules are now being12 reinstated.13 And they will apply to the four14 National Broadcast Networks, that's ABC, CBS,15 NBC, FOX, and their affiliates in the top 2516 markets, as well as the top five cable17 channels, and that includes USA, Disney, TNT,18 TBS, Nickelodeon and Nick at Nite.19 The rules are not as20 comprehensive as our Closed Caption Rules.21 They require only four hours of primetime or22 children's programming per week, that is1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 roughly 50 hours per calendar quarter.2 However, the FCC has additional authority to3 conduct an inquiry on the benefits, uses and4 availability and costs of the rules one year5 after the phase-in and can expand the rules,6 if necessary.7 The next item that I want to8 mention is the National Deaf/Blind Equipment9 Distribution Program. That program is also10 going into effect this July. That program --11 Kris mentioned that program. That program is12 going to distribute through local entities13 equipment, telecommunications and advanced14 communication service equipment to low-income15 individuals who are deaf/blind.16 They have to meet the Federal17 Poverty Guideline level that we are using as18 400 percent of the poverty guideline level19 will qualify them. They also need to meet a20 definition set by the statute or actually set21 by the National Helen Keller Statute.22 These individuals as well can get1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 assessments, training. The program will2 cover warranties, outreach and all other3 associated related costs that are reasonable4 will be covered by the program.5 There will be one program in6 every state or locality that will be7 responsible for conducting this distribution.8 We are on the cusp of announcing the9 certified entities. We had issued a public10 notice a few months back seeking applications11 and did a thorough review of those12 applications to make sure that each entity13 would be qualified to comply with all of our14 rules under this program.15 I should mention it's a pilot16 program. We have authorized it for two to17 three years, so that we can really figure out18 how the program needs to work. There are19 several reporting requirements by these20 various entities. We are going to be21 reviewing those very carefully to make sure22 that the program is meeting the needs of the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 community that it is intended to serve.2 In all, there will be 53 entities3 that are certified. We also just recently4 announced the National Outreach Coordinator.5 It's the Perkins School for the Blind in6 conjunction with the Helen Keller National7 Center and FableVision. They have been8 awarded $500,000 per each year of the pilot9 program to conduct national outreach.10 So we are set. We are almost set11 to begin very soon and you will be hearing12 more about that in some public notices.13 The next thing that I want to14 mention is the work that we have been doing15 on Next Generation 911. Many of you are16 already familiar with some of this, but it17 has been very, very exciting. We have a18 Notice of Proposed Rulemaking that has been19 pending since September on NG911 focused20 mostly on text to 911.21 Our Emergency Access Advisory22 Committee that was created under the CVA has1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 been meeting regularly. In 2011, it met2 monthly per the requirements of the Act.3 Now, it has been meeting more infrequently,4 but still meeting. 5 The group produced or the6 committee produced a survey covering and7 analyzing, approximately, 3,000 -- well,8 10,000 people responded to the survey. 3,0009 completed surveys by people with disabilities10 reporting on how they access emergency11 services.12 And the product of that survey13 and the product of the committee's report14 eventually led to a resolution that people15 with disabilities wanted access to 911 via16 text. And tremendous progress has been made17 in that area.18 Since then, Verizon and AT&T have19 announced that they are going to be piloting20 Text to 911 programs. And so we are going to21 be working with these companies in order to22 make sure that outreach is done and our1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Consumer Outreach Office will be2 orchestrating some meetings shortly to3 coordinate efforts between consumers,4 industry, PSAPs and other relevant5 stakeholders.6 Just really quickly, I want to7 mention that in October we also have to8 submit to Congress a report on how we have9 been doing with respect to achieving10 accessibility of advanced communication11 services and telecommunication services. We12 are also continuing to work on our13 clearinghouse, our accessibility14 clearinghouse that provides products and15 services, information about accessible16 products and services to the community.17 And we just recently released a18 public notice seeking comment on our -- the19 report that we received from our Video20 Programming Access Advisory Committee on21 making devices compatible with video22 description and providing emergency access1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 information or information about emergencies2 accessible to people with -- who are blind3 and visually impaired.4 Those are two requirements --5 that's emergency information, in this6 context, I'm talking about is on television.7 Those are two issues that are dealt with in8 the video programming section of the CVAA and9 we are getting comments back and replies are10 due on June 19th, because we are going to11 have to be issuing rules on that.12 And I know I have made your13 brains fried, at this point, so I'm going to14 stop talking. But you can see that we have a15 lot to do. I'm going to be back later on for16 the disability group. Cheryl King is going17 to be joining you initially and then I'm18 going to be stepping in a little bit later19 on. So I can fill you in on more of the20 details.21 MS. MONTEITH: Thanks very much,22 Karen. Now, Roger, if you would, please,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 talk a little bit about some of the consumer2 outreach issues and, particularly, where we3 could use some help?4 MR. GOLDBLATT: Okay. Thank you.5 First of all, I wanted to start with thank6 you and then I'll end with a request.7 Many of you have been generous8 enough to invite us to exhibit at your9 conventions. We did CS and CTA, NAD in the10 past few months. And I would say you really11 ran us ragged. I say the two or three people12 we have had at the booth had been busy13 nonstop.14 It so gratifying to have people15 come to us and say thank you for being here.16 And they come out and they bring their little17 ragged list of questions they have for FCC.18 And then, of course, you always have, no19 matter where we go for the past 12 years I20 have been here, the HAM operators that come21 and want to show their little HAM licenses.22 But outreach is really1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 fascinating here, because FCC has a lot of2 lawyers and a lot of engineers. I mean, we3 come out with a lot of great rules and4 regulations that really help consumers. But5 if you ask your parents or grandparents or6 niece or nephews or children or neighbors7 what some of these words like the8 viewability, cramming, broadband, Spectrum,9 eRate, Universal Service, robocalls,10 billshock, VoIP, LPFM, LPTV, they won't know11 what you are talking about.12 We have people that come to us13 and they go, you know, I go into McDonalds14 and I see this little sign, what does that15 mean? And we say well, that means they have16 wireless. And they go really? Or they17 wonder about the QR Code. What does that18 mean? I say well, you can take your19 Smartphone and you can get to a website. And20 they go really?21 So what we try to do, as far as22 outreach, is to kind of be the bridge, be the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 conduit and say, okay, FCC does an awful lot2 to help consumers and we will try to explain3 to you what it is and what we do.4 And that's why they come with5 these questions. And we really do an awful6 lot, because we have groups that come in and7 we say well, what does FCC mean to you? What8 do you think FCC does? And I would say 99 to9 100 percent will say indecency and obscenity.10 To tell you the truth, that's like, you know,11 very, very little percent of what we do, but12 we do an awful lot to help consumers.13 And we try to, because we are a14 small band of people, concentrate on certain15 areas. People with disabilities, people in16 rural areas, minorities, African-Americans,17 Asians, non-English-speaking people,18 Hispanics, very, very important, seniors.19 We find that a lot of seniors are20 afraid to get onto broadband. It isn't21 always a financial issue. It's just not22 knowing what is going on. And I think you1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 have had people talk about our Connect to2 Compete Program, because it's really3 important. And we are trying to work pilot4 programs around the country to get people to5 understand how important it is to be on the6 computer.7 We are actually exhibiting next8 week at the American Library Association,9 because libraries are so important for people10 who don't have computers. People who go look11 for jobs on the computers. People who don't12 have computers look at their emails. Kids13 who don't have computers at home do their14 homework. I mean, so we try to form15 partnerships.16 And what we try to do also is I17 think we do a decent job, but we could do a18 heck of a lot better job. You know, we work19 on distracted driving. I don't know about20 you, but I don't think we have done enough on21 that.22 You look and you see how many1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 people are still texting and are talking on2 the phone while they are driving. You know,3 that's an FCC issue. Almost for a small4 Agency, we cut, probably impact everybody in5 some aspect of their life, whether it be TV,6 television, computers. You know, there are7 so many aspects.8 So what we would like to do, you9 know, like I said, we are the face of the10 FCC. We go and people ask us questions. FCC11 like every other Federal Agency has budget12 cuts. So we try to do the best we can. We13 are experimenting with technology, ways we14 can do things from here, but it does help15 when we are out there and people come to us16 and they have their questions.17 So if you can help us come up18 with ideas how can we impact? How can we19 reach people? How can we translate? How can20 we get the word out to people all over the21 country?22 We really -- any creative ideas1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that you have, we are open to. There pretty2 much are no barriers as far as ideas. We3 really are so enthusiastic. We really want4 to get the word out. We love talking to5 people. We love when they come and they say6 thank you and by the way, I have a question.7 And we will try to answer.8 And that's our goal. We are not9 experts, but we know who the experts are. So10 to come to us, we get the answer and I think11 a lot of times they are surprised because12 like, you know, we are from the Government13 and we're here to help you and we really are14 there to help.15 So like I said, I started with16 thank you for those who have invited us and17 we have worked with. And I know most of you.18 I think of all of you as friends and19 partners. So I guess I want to end with a20 request.21 Any ideas you have for how we can22 outreach better, how we can partner better,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 how we can reach a lot of the under-served2 communities that really need us or need to3 know a lot of the programs that are4 available, the Lifeline programs, the eRate5 programs. There are so many good things the6 FCC does and we really need your assistance.7 So thank you very much.8 MS. MONTEITH: I would like to9 introduce my Acting Chief of Staff, the10 Acting Chief of Staff for CGB, Michael11 Carowitz.12 MR. CAROWITZ: Hi. I just --13 CHAIR BERLYN: You need the mike.14 MR. CAROWITZ: Thanks. I just15 wanted to say hello to everybody and let you16 know that I'm here as a point of contact in17 the CGB. If there is anything that you need18 at any point, please, feel free to give me a19 call. I can point you in the right direction20 and get you acquainted with the right people.21 And because I'm new, your22 questions will help me learn my job just a1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 little bit quicker. So thanks.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Questions?3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. I guess I4 continue to be very disappointed by the sort5 of inability of the FCC to free-up money for6 serious outreach. I really applaud the fact7 that you want to try to reach low-income8 consumers. You want to reach the people9 who--for whom English is not the primary10 language. But I think that as most of the11 folks around this table will know, that takes12 money.13 And putting stuff on a website14 doesn't do it. Going to National Conference15 doesn't do it. You have got to work with the16 actual agencies that are working with17 consumers on a day-to-day basis.18 And it's just it can -- it has19 sort of been refrained that I and other20 people on this Council have been saying for21 years and years and years. And I have just22 not seen a serious commitment in that area,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 whether it is on Lifeline or anything else.2 There has to be printed materials. There has3 to be money for distribution of them. There4 has to be money for training. And we are not5 talking -- you know, I would be happy just to6 see a few $100,000 dollars in terms of7 commitment by the Commission to actually8 reach the people that you purport to help.9 And I think that certainly going10 to conferences and things like that, working11 at the library is a small first step, but12 it's a very tiny, tiny, tiny step. And I13 think you really have to figure out how in a14 tight budget era to free-up some money for15 serious outreach with printed materials in16 different languages.17 You now, Consumer Action does it18 with a very small budget, smaller than yours.19 And I think other organizations around the20 table do as well, as do many of the21 companies.22 I think the models are out there.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I just think that the FCC really has to get2 serious and step up to the table.3 MS. MONTEITH: I'm happy to hear4 you say that, Ken, honestly, because I think5 one of the issues as Roger was saying that we6 really face is in an era of shrinking7 budgets, is the consumer outreach function --8 how is the consumer outreach function viewed?9 And I think that the core group10 of folks in CGB think it is a mission11 critical function for the Commission. But12 we, as Government Agencies, you know, face13 shrinking budgets. So we would really14 appreciate your help in -- on that issue to15 say yes, it is important for the Commission16 to get out there and actually have a face-to-17 face conversation with consumers outside of18 the, you know, proverbial beltway. So I19 appreciate your comments in that regard.20 MR. McELDOWNEY: Just a quick21 follow-up to that. I don't think it's22 necessary for the Commission to get out and1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 talk to individual consumers. Consumer2 Action uses a Train the Trainer model. We3 train between 800 and 1,000 community group4 staff a year around the country in terms of5 how to successfully use our materials in the6 community.7 And the advantage of that is that8 these are the agencies that work with9 consumers on a day-to-day basis on a wide10 range of issues in a wide range of languages.11 We would go nuts if we wanted to try to reach12 individual consumers.13 But our 7,000 agencies put over a14 million pieces of literature a year in the15 hands of consumers, because they are on the16 ground. And I think that's something that17 the Commission has to do is to work with the18 groups more closely throughout the country.19 They are actually working with consumers on a20 day-to-day basis.21 For example, the small foundation22 grant, we are training about 45 community1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 group staff in San Bernardino in terms of2 proper use of cell phones with materials that3 we did for the small, you know, foundation4 grid. And that has got to reach a huge5 number of consumers.6 CHAIR BERLYN: If I could, we7 have a Commissioner in the room. I see two8 tent cards up. I will allow one more9 question. If you could make it very brief10 and then I'm afraid we will have to move on.11 We do have someone else we will take, if you12 don't mind, perhaps just give me your13 questions and I can forward them on to Kris,14 so that we don't lose your questions in the15 course of our discussion today, because I16 know that your questions are important.17 Irene, you put your question18 down. I don't know who came up first.19 MS. LEECH: He came up first.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.21 MS. LEECH: That's why I did22 that.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: All right. So2 make sure that you get your question to me.3 And go ahead. And if you could make your4 question a question and brief?5 MS. HERRERA: Yes.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.7 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,8 Cable and Broadband Administrator from9 Montgomery County Maryland.10 One thing I would just note to11 you, we have had a recent thing with the12 Broadband Adoption Program. If you work with13 local governments or you pick a few larger14 ones, they can help bring together the people15 who run programs aimed at low-income clients16 from HHS or Health and Human Services, the17 housing people, the schools and you can --18 they can help organize meetings for you where19 you can come out and effectively reach people20 who are -- to find your target population.21 So you should try to look at some22 of those local partners in addition with our1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 consumer groups.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you.3 MS. WALT: Do you mind if people4 can identify themselves before they speak?5 CHAIR BERLYN: Absolutely. You6 should identify yourself. I believe you did.7 MS. HERRERA: I did. But Mitsi8 Herrera, the Cable and Broadband9 Administrator from Montgomery County10 Maryland.11 CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry, I12 thought you did.13 MS. WALT: Thank you.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you.15 MS. MONTEITH: Thank you.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, thank you17 very much, Kris. I greatly appreciate you18 coming and speaking with us with your entire19 team. It has been great. We will make sure20 if anyone has any other questions, please,21 forward them to me or to Scott and we will22 make sure that Kris does get them, so that we1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 don't lose that opportunity. So thank you2 again.3 MS. MONTEITH: Thank you so much.4 CHAIR BERLYN: We will also have5 someone else from Kris' team here.6 (Applause)7 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. It is8 my pleasure to call Commissioner Rosenworcel9 to the table. Right here we have a spot.10 For those of you who don't know our new11 Commissioner here, I don't know is there12 anyone in the room who does not know our new13 Commissioner?14 She was probably in the room15 several times with her former boss who was16 outstanding, Commissioner Copps. And she is,17 I'm sure, going to continue his legacy of18 strong consumer policies here at the19 Commission and we are so pleased to have you20 here today. So welcome.21 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank22 you. So as Debbie was just saying, it's a1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 not very closely held secret that I am not2 entirely new to the Agency, though I was just3 sworn in to office last month. So I'm4 familiar with this room and many of the5 people who are sitting here today with a lot6 of the issues. And at the risk of aging7 myself, I even remember back in 2000 when the8 Commission first started the Consumer9 Advisory Committee.10 So the work you do, I know11 because I have watched it for so many years,12 is really, really important.13 And thinking back on it, I was14 thinking about what I did between my last15 tour of duty at the FCC and what I hoped to16 do in the weeks and months ahead. I spent17 five years on Capitol Hill and the bulk of18 that time was spent on the Digital Television19 transition, the Broadband Data Improvement20 Act, the 21st Century Communications and21 Video Accessibility Act and on Spectrum22 Auctions.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And if there is a single thread2 that connects all of those things, it's how3 they impact consumers from the DTV transition4 making sure everyone does not lose access to5 television, so that they can get not just6 entertainment, but critical news and7 information to the Broadband Date Improvement8 Act, which is about trying to figure out9 where broadband is and is not in households10 across this country.11 To also, obviously, the 21st12 Century Communications and Video13 Accessibility Act, which is about making sure14 that everyone in this country, no matter who15 they are, has access to the great services16 available in the digital age.17 And then finally, Spectrum18 Auctions, which seems sort of wonkish and19 academic, but in the end is not just about20 making sure there are opportunities for21 wireless providers to do new and innovative22 things with Spectrum, but it's about taking1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 those Spectrum resources and pushing them2 into consumers' hands, so that they can have3 access to a whole new range of services.4 So that's what I have been doing5 during the last five years, but now I'm back6 in the Agency and I'm looking forward to7 working with all of you trying to figure out8 what the Agency does well when it comes to9 consumers and, quite frankly, what the Agency10 can do better.11 So I'm looking forward to12 starting a dialogue with everyone here, with13 the Committee at-large and I just wanted to14 let you know that my door is always open.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Yes,16 does anyone -- I don't know if anyone has any17 questions for the Commissioner? This is the18 honeymoon phase. Julie?19 MS. KEARNEY: I actually -- this20 is Julie Kearney from the Consumer21 Electronics Association. I don't have a22 question. I just have a welcome back. It's1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 great to have you here. And I know you are2 such an expert on the issues and you have got3 a great staff.4 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: That's5 right. I'll make sure you meet Priscilla6 Argeris, who is part of my staff, and we will7 be working on wire lineage use, a lot of8 consumer issues and she should become a9 familiar name and face to you. She knows a10 lot already and is going to know more even11 when she converses with all of you.12 MS. KEARNEY: Great. So nothing13 except we are thrilled to have you back.14 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Okay.15 CHAIR BERLYN: And I will add to16 that, it's a pleasure to -- you know, I17 should have mentioned that you have such an18 outstanding history on all the issues, but19 particularly with representing consumers on20 all these issues.21 So we are so lucky to have you22 here and so many of us know that that is so1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 true having worked with you not only here,2 but also on Capitol Hill. So we are very3 happy to have you.4 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: I have5 worked extensively with Debbie on the DTV6 transition. She was really an impressive7 advocate on behalf of AARP at the time.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.9 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: And so10 I have a lot of respect for what you have11 done.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank13 you. Paul, do you have a --14 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes. Paul15 Schroeder with the American Foundation for --16 do we have this microphone on? Yes, okay,17 good.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, you're on.19 MR. SCHROEDER: Paul Schroeder,20 American Foundation for the Blind.21 Commissioner, good to work with you here as22 well as having worked with you on the Hill.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I do hope that one of the things we always2 encourage Commissioners to do and some of3 them do it well, some of them don't, is to4 remember that it's important to talk about5 people with disabilities as consumers in6 communications, not just here and in front of7 consumer committees, but more important when8 you are out talking with industry, in9 particular, because I do think sometimes10 those issues tend to get forgotten.11 And you have a terrific megaphone12 to be able to bring people's attention to13 those issues. And I think, particularly, the14 issues that relate to consumers with15 disabilities are often overlooked and16 forgotten when we are talking about17 communications policies. 18 So I do hope you will -- I19 appreciate your shout out to the CVAA. We20 have worked hard with your office on it at21 the time and I do hope you will remember to22 talk about the importance of involving people1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 with disabilities and not just in sort of a2 throw away way, but really in a meaningful3 way of talking about how communication4 services that are accessible are better for5 everyone and, of course, more useful for all6 consumers.7 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank8 you. Good points.9 CHAIR BERLYN: All right.10 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL:11 Appreciate it.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you so much.13 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank14 you.15 (Applause)16 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Well,17 this morning -- am I back on? This morning18 we are joined, and I hope you will help me by19 identifying yourselves by raising your hands20 or standing up, by some members of FCC's21 Intergovernmental Affairs Committee. And22 there is -- are you Marlin Blizinsky? No?1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Okay. Great.2 So I wanted to have -- maybe you3 will have to self-identify yourselves, but I4 know -- is Joyce Dickerson here? Great.5 Joyce Dickerson, who is the Chair6 Commissioner with Richland County Council in7 South Carolina, so if you could just come on8 over for a moment?9 And Vice Chair Marlin Blizinsky,10 are you in the room? Okay. And I'm sorry,11 are you with the -- there is another12 gentleman. I'm sorry, you will have to come13 on over. I don't have your name here, but14 you are Tom Sloan? Representative Tom Sloan,15 come on over.16 I just want to give them a couple17 of minutes to say a few words to our18 Committee from another committee. Welcome,19 thank you so much.20 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you so very21 much.22 CHAIR BERLYN: Welcome.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. DICKERSON: Good morning.2 And thank you --3 CHAIR BERLYN: Here let me get --4 I'm sorry, let me give you the mike.5 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you. Good6 morning and thank you, Madam Chair, for7 allowing us to be with you --8 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh and there are9 other committee members here as well.10 MS. DICKERSON: Yes.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, if you can12 -- we've got a seat over here as well.13 MS. DICKERSON: Okay. 14 CHAIR BERLYN: Maybe why don't15 you introduce yourselves at the mikes --16 MS. DICKERSON: Okay. 17 CHAIR BERLYN: -- if I missed you18 with my introductions? Did I miss you? I19 missed you, didn't I?20 MR. FELLMAN: Yes, sorry. Ken21 Fellman, City Attorney in Cherry Hills22 Village, Colorado.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: And?2 MR. HUCKABA: Andy Huckaba, City3 Councilman, Lenexa, Kansas.4 CHAIR BERLYN: And I'm sorry I5 didn't give you a proper introduction.6 REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: That's7 fine. I'm Representative Tom Sloan from8 Kansas.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 10 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you. Good11 morning, Madam Chair. And thank you for the12 opportunity and the privilege to be with you13 this morning. I am Councilwoman Joyce14 Dickerson from Columbia, South Carolina. And15 I am very pleased to be here to introduce my16 group this morning, our committee this17 morning, the IAC.18 Just to give you a little bit of19 the background on the IAC, the IAC Advisory20 Committee was a federal communications21 appointee, which back in 1997 it was first22 established the IAC predecessors, which was1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Local and State Government Advisory2 Committee. And in July it was changed from3 its name to the advisory committee to be4 called the Body of the IAC to reflect a5 greater balance between state, local and6 tribal governments and so that we would have7 a better representation across the board.8 The urban and rural9 representation also as well as the experts,10 we need some expertise in Homeland Security11 and rural matters.12 And in November of 2011, the FCC13 released a public notice announcing the new14 members of the IAC who will serve for two15 years from the first scheduled meeting, which16 was held December 2011.17 While the Commission rules18 authority of a 15 member committee, the19 Chairman announced 14 of those and he left20 one of them vacant and later I was appointed21 to be Chair of this committee and I am very22 pleased to serve with such a very, very well1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 level of expertise that I serve with veterans2 who have been here for a long time and I'm3 just coming on as a novice and I really,4 really feel very privileged to have this5 opportunity to serve.6 As a matter of fact, I am just7 really pleased and thankful that I believe8 that both of these committees, both the CAC9 and the IAC, can compliment each other and I10 think what we bring to the table will bring a11 level of expertise, because we will be12 addressing mostly and mainly the same issues,13 although from a different perspective.14 And because we are coming from a15 different perspective, I just believe that as16 we work together to give and to give the17 Commission some very good advice on some18 things that we feel that will better serve19 the unserved and the under-served to me is20 very, very important, Madam Chair.21 And I think as we go along22 working together and sharing information, I1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 think we will be a strong body to make the2 Commission a more stronger body as we go3 forward.4 And so with that said, I'm just5 so excited to be here this morning. And we6 are privileged to have the opportunity to7 come, that you give us this opportunity to8 come and visit with you this morning, because9 we feel that the issues that we are10 addressing are so very important and vital to11 the community, to our citizens and to those12 that we serve on a day-to-day basis.13 And from my perspective, as a14 Council Member, I deal with these issues on a15 daily basis, because of my constituents.16 They are always contacting me. Although I17 serve on an 11 member panel, you would think18 that I am the only one that is on that19 Commission, because every time there is an20 issue, I don't care what jurisdiction it is,21 they call Councilwoman Joyce Dickerson.22 I'm like don't you -- they have1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 my number on speed dial. And but I think it2 is a very good thing, because when you have a3 presence, in my opinion, in your community4 working with your constituents on a daily5 basis, having an open ear, I think that's a6 good thing when they know that you have an7 open door policy that they can always come to8 and to me that is an asset.9 So with that said, I was going to10 introduce my Vice Chair to you this morning11 and let him say a few words, but I have12 veteran members on this committee who have --13 REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: Marlin14 just got here.15 MS. DICKERSON: Oh, okay.16 Marlin, you are just on time. But I have17 veterans on this committee who have just been18 a tremendous asset to me, Ken and Tom, they19 have me on speed dial as well. And I think20 it's very good. We have only -- this is our21 third time meeting, but we have made a bond.22 We have put together a bond, because we are1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 addressing issues.2 Our committee has five3 subcommittees of which Ken chairs one, my4 Vice Chair Marlin is here, he is Vice Chair5 and chairs our Broadband Adoption. So out of6 those five subcommittees, we are trying to7 reach across the board to make sure that we8 address those issues that we can bring to the9 FCC and making sure that the advice we give10 and the comments that we make will reflect11 the committee and make sure that those things12 are very, very important to the unserved and13 the under-served.14 I think that's I got involved,15 because I am so concerned about the unserved16 and the under-served around the nation. So17 with that said, if Marlin would like to have18 a few words, I would like to share -- turn it19 over to my Vice Chair and if any of the other20 members would love to say anything, I would21 love to have them -- would love to introduce22 them as well.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Thank you so very much for the2 privilege, Madam Chair.3 MR. BLIZINSKY: Thank you. Hi,4 I'm Marlin Blizinsky. I'm from King County,5 Washington, which is --6 CHAIR BERLYN: Use the mike.7 MR. BLIZINSKY: Is this better?8 Yes. I'm from King County, Washington, which9 is the county that includes Seattle and10 Redmond. And I want to thank you for meeting11 with us.12 We are very interested in many13 consumer issues as you are and so we wanted14 to meet with you today to let you know of our15 interests, but also let you know of our16 interest in working with you, so that we are17 not working across purposes and that if we18 are interested in similar efforts, that we19 can work together on those efforts and20 coordinate our activities with you.21 So thank you very much for having22 us today and we look forward to working with1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 you.2 MS. DICKERSON: And I would like3 to introduce Tom Sloan, Representative Tom4 Sloan.5 REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: Thank you,6 Madam Chairman, Madam Chairman. My only7 comments are that as our Chairwoman8 indicated, we are comprised of state9 legislators, local government officials and I10 would encourage the Members of the other11 Council and the general public not only to12 look at how we can interact with the FCC, but13 also how we interact in our home14 constituencies, and particularly the three15 state legislators that are on the IAC.16 You know, we all interact very17 extensively with our Public Utility18 Commission and a lot of consumer complaints19 start and end at that level.20 So, you know, speaking for the21 other two who are not here and, therefore,22 you know, I can speak for them, you know, we1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 encourage you to, you know, get our contact2 information and, you know, use our resources,3 not only in the three states we represent,4 but all three of us are very active in the5 professional associations that legislators6 have, so we can carry messages to other7 states as well. Thank you.8 MS. DICKERSON: And I also did9 not -- I would be remiss if I did not10 introduce Ken. Well, he is probably not a11 stranger to Debbie.12 MR. FELLMAN: No. I appreciate13 the opportunity to be here. Thank you, Madam14 Chair and Chairwoman Berlyn. I served on the15 original Government Advisory Committee, the16 Local and State Government Advisory17 Committee, so this is my second tour of duty18 and I'm very pleased with how things are19 going so far with our relationship with the20 staff and the Commissioners.21 And this is a new experience for22 me to have a joint meeting with another FCC1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Advisory Committee, so I think it is a great2 opportunity to move the ball forward on the3 issues that both committees are dealing with.4 Thank you.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank6 you all for --7 MS. DICKERSON: I also would like8 to introduce Radhika Karmarkar.9 MS. KARMARKAR: Hi, I'm Radhika10 Karmarkar. I'm also with New York City.11 CHAIR BERLYN: You need to come12 to the microphone.13 MS. KARMARKAR: Sorry.14 CHAIR BERLYN: There are people15 in the room who can't hear you.16 MS. KARMARKAR: Hi, I'm Radhika17 Karmarkar. I'm with New York City and I work18 on franchising and consumer issues related to19 franchising and regulatory issues in the20 city. And I'm very happy to be here. I21 actually worked with the FCC for a decade22 before I came to New York, so it is really1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 great for me.2 And I have actually spoken to3 Mitsi earlier, so it's good to meet you4 Mitsi. And I'm looking forward to5 coordinating with both groups.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you7 all.8 MS. DICKERSON: Okay. 9 CHAIR BERLYN: And I do recognize10 you, Ken, because I can attest to the fact11 that you were with the original committee,12 because I came and spoke to you back in the13 late '90s, I remember, after the Telecom Act14 Pact passed, so I do recall that.15 This is a great opportunity. I'm16 so glad that you came here today and we do17 have so much in common that we should look18 for opportunities to work together. So thank19 you so much for coming today. And perhaps we20 can come to one of your gatherings in the21 future.22 MS. DICKERSON: Yes, Madam Chair,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I look forward to that. As a matter of fact,2 I would think it would be a great thing for,3 you know, if some time in the very near4 future, once you work with your organ -- your5 Committee, and we go forward with our6 committee, that we look at a joint -- you7 know, having a joint session if that is8 possible, because we could share a lot of9 information.10 And I just can't -- I would also11 be remiss if I didn't thank my staff here for12 helping me to coordinate this so very much13 and I'm so pleased to have them with me.14 Thank you again. And thank you for having us15 this morning.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.17 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Thank19 you. Deborah? Stay in your seats. We are20 moving right into our next session group.21 Thank you. Okay. Everyone stay in your22 seats. This is an important session we are1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 going to have now talking about the Consumer2 Complaint Process and some Reform that the3 FCC is working on and needs our help on.4 Are you all set?5 MS. BRODERSON: Yes, absolutely.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Great.7 So I would like to introduce Deborah8 Broderson, Legal Advisor for CGB, and Sharon9 Bowers, Chief Consumer Complaints and10 Inquiries Division at CGB. So thank you both11 for joining us this morning.12 And if everybody is getting a13 little antsy, we will have a break after this14 session, but also just to let both of you15 know, that some time during this session, we16 will be joined by Commissioner Pai, so we17 will take a break at some point. He is going18 to be joining us some time between 10:00 and19 10:20, so I'll be on the lookout and we will20 take a, you know, short five minute break21 during this session and then we will get back22 to it.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So everyone stay in your seats2 for this great session. Thank you both for3 joining us.4 MS. BRODERSON: Good morning.5 Thanks for being here. Thank you, Chairman6 Berlyn and thanks to the IAC as well,7 Chairman Dickerson and others who are here8 with us today.9 Sharon and I are very excited.10 Sharon drove all the way down from Gettysburg11 this morning. She was so excited she got12 here at 8:30. So that's how excited we are13 about Consumer Complaint Reform and to talk14 to you all about sort of the process that we15 have been -- it has been underway for a16 little while, but we are definitely sell and17 listening mode.18 So we have some, if not direct19 asks, then some pre-asks for you that will20 come at the end of the presentation. So21 something to look forward to. Let me see if22 I can click. Yes.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And we have a PowerPoint. I2 assume that people who are attending on the3 phone have it electronically, so -- but we4 will talk through everything on the5 PowerPoint.6 MS. BOWERS: As Deborah said, I7 drove down from Gettysburg this morning8 across the Battlefield and it was just a9 beautiful morning and a beautiful sunrise. I10 actually saw a couple of deer on the11 Battlefield, so it was just a nice way to12 start the day.13 And I appreciate this opportunity14 to come down and speak with the CAC and15 Deborah and I look forward to working with16 this group.17 Just to give you a little bit of18 background on the Complaints and Inquiry19 Process, there are several methods in which a20 consumer can file a complaint or an inquiry21 with us.22 They can file on-line on Form1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 2000 Complaint or 1088. We also have the2 Slamming Complaint Form and the Indecency3 Form. They can send it via our website.4 They could send it in, what we refer to these5 days, as snail mail or they can fax it in or,6 in fact, they can phone it in and we can take7 a complaint over the phone for them.8 CGB has a huge responsibility in9 tracking the complaints and inquiries and10 reporting it to our bureaus and offices that11 help develop our policy to help protect12 consumers. And we take this very important,13 which is why we are here today to reach out14 to the CAC on how we can maybe improve our15 processes and talk to you about our Complaint16 Reform.17 We also report by topics on our18 quarterly report, which can be found on our19 website. And as I said, the complaint20 information drives proceedings and we often21 -- bureaus often reach out to us and ask for22 data to help support proceedings.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. BRODERSON: And at times even2 initiate proceedings. I mean, that's one of3 the exciting things about working with the4 Consumer Complaints is that it's this direct5 hotline, literally sometimes, from consumers6 to tell us what is going on and sometimes we7 end up spotting trends much -- even more8 quickly than we could hear about them from9 lobbyists or consumer advocates, because the10 consumers are the ones who are directly11 affected.12 Oops, click. So Sharon mentioned13 our Quarterly Complaint Report. I put up14 some statistics from the most recent report,15 which was the first quarter, January through16 March. So we break out report down into17 inquiries and complaints.18 Inquiry is a question from a19 consumer about FCC policy, about the20 regulations.21 And a complaint is a request from22 a consumer to do something. Something1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 happened to me, this company, I'm having a2 problem with this company, this service3 provider, can you help me?4 So we had almost 18,000 inquiries5 in the first quarter and almost 90,0006 complaints in the first quarter from7 consumers. So that's a lot. You can see our8 numbers are up 29 percent in inquiries, 329 percent for complaints. So either something10 really bad is happening out there or we are11 getting the word out to consumers and we like12 to think that it's just we are getting word13 out to consumers and they know that they can14 come complain to us. Although that, again,15 is something that we hope to work on as well.16 CHAIR BERLYN: A quick question17 about that. When you track complaints over a18 year long period, do they go up and down over19 the year? So you are comparing it to the20 fourth quarter, but over a year long period,21 are there quarters where complaints go up and22 down?1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So if you compared it to the2 first quarter of 2010, how would they compare3 to first quarter -- I'm sorry, 2011 compared4 to 2012? Because I remember looking at5 complaints over a year long and they tend to6 go up and down. So I'm just wondering how do7 they track over a year long period of time?8 MS. BOWERS: Well, and that's9 part of the reason why we want to reach out10 to the CAC and talk a little bit about our11 complaint process. Because what we would12 like to develop is that very type of tracking13 from year-to-year.14 When we put the quarterly report15 out, we don't specifically go back and then16 look up and down like within the month or17 within that general year.18 But we want to improve how we19 intake the complaint, so that we can do more20 of a drill down, so we can see in specific21 subject matter if there is a change.22 Right now, it's too broad and1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that's why we want to work on our Complaint2 Reform and work directly with the bureaus on3 the subject codes that we use. And we also4 are going to talk a little bit about this as5 well, specializing our team to deal with6 specific subject matter, so if we did see a7 spike in a complaint type, we would be able8 to identify it immediately.9 MS. BRODERSON: Or a drop in a10 complaint type, which again could be good11 news and something that the Commission could12 share like hey, consumers are no longer13 complaining about this. Maybe it's something14 the Commission did or that the consumer15 advocates did that made things better16 sometimes.17 Again, from the same report, I18 pulled out our top categories for inquiries19 and complaints. For cable billing and rates,20 broadcasting, programming, no surprise.21 Wireless, licensing information, wireless and22 wire-line, TCPA complaints, unwanted calls,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 unwanted faxes and then complaints -- we also2 separately tracked bundled VoIP complaints.3 Again, cable, satellite,4 broadcasting, programming and then unwanted5 calls. It's not surprising that those are6 the issues that consumers are concerned7 about.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, please.9 MS. HERRERA: Hi, Mitsi Herrera,10 Cable and Broadband Administrator from11 Montgomery County.12 The last time when Joel was still13 heading, I think, the Bureau, if I recall14 right, we had talked to you about in your15 reports you report the top complaints for16 that quarter. And that made it difficult to17 track between quarters. And we had suggested18 that if you instead reported all categories,19 then you would have the data that you would20 be able to track.21 So, one, I wanted to find out22 whether you had implemented that1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 recommendation or are in the process of doing2 so?3 And the second is I did want to4 ask you specifically in the past when people5 had called about cable service complaints,6 the Commission had referred them to the local7 jurisdictions, the local franchising8 authorities. So are you representing now9 that you handle those complaints?10 MS. BOWERS: It's a difficult11 area. Most of the complaints that we get are12 from consumers who either have reception type13 issues through the DTV transition or perhaps14 they have lost channels.15 And so what we try to do is refer16 the consumer to the local franchising17 authority. Now, we have had consumers18 complain that the local franchising authority19 hasn't been helpful. They haven't been able20 to get in contact with them. So we do what21 we can to advocate on behalf of the consumer.22 To the degree that we can, we try1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 to get the issue resolved, but we are not2 always successful in that regard. But our3 first point is to reach out to the local4 franchising authority to resolve the issue.5 MS. HERRERA: So one is in your6 reporting, are you tracking or reporting7 the-- or maybe -- you are probably not, but8 it would be helpful is that if you -- I'm not9 sure where they fall within complaints or10 inquiries where the resolution is largely a11 referral to another jurisdiction, tracking12 that would be useful so you could understand13 the impact on resources.14 The other issues is that there15 are a minority of states, but it's16 significant, about 17, who have moved to a17 state franchising model for cable. And one18 of the concerns has been that that gutted the19 resources at the local level to address those20 complaints.21 It is very hard to move resources22 into addressing those if we are hiding the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 problem by not reporting back that in North2 Dakota we had 950 complaints that we referred3 back. And in California, we had 25,000 or4 whatever it may be. 5 So I'm just suggesting to you6 that doing that, and there are folks in this7 room from the Intergovernmental Relations8 Committee and they can sort of be a good9 liaison for that as well, but it is very10 difficult if you don't report the data out.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Very good.12 MS. BRODERSON: Well, and that's13 something I sat in on the Consumer Complaint14 Section of the IAC meeting yesterday and that15 was one of the suggestions that was raised,16 one of the comments that was made was that17 strengthening the feedback between the18 Commission and states would be really19 helpful. So I think that's something that20 definitely is on our radar.21 CHAIR BERLYN: So we are going to22 take a quick break from our presentation. Am1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I on? Okay. Because we are so fortunate to2 have Commissioner Clyburn with us this3 morning. And I will get right back or we4 will get right back to your great5 presentation. So sorry. Thank you for being6 so flexible here.7 Thank you, Commissioner Clyburn,8 for joining us this morning. You have been9 so kind to come and address us before and we10 are thrilled to have you here this morning.11 So thank you.12 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you13 so much for being kind to taking a pause. I14 know you are all very busy and I want to15 thank you for your willingness to serve and16 taking the time to be here. Once again, I17 always have to extend my heartfelt gratitude18 to Debbie Berlyn, who is one of my favorite19 people on the planet, but other than that, I20 want to thank her for her stewardship for21 this -- for chairing this critically22 important Committee.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I also wish to thank, and she may2 be in the room, but if not, please, allow --3 tell her that I did, Kris Monteith that all4 of the superstars in the Consumer and5 Government Affairs Bureau who are on the6 front lines engaging with the public about7 what we are doing right and yes, what we are8 doing wrong. And where and if our industry9 friends may be falling short.10 Speaking of friends, I am pleased11 to count Karen Peltz Strauss as one of them.12 Her voice is invaluable here at the FCC and13 those long hours and hard work on the14 implementation or CVAA have been a major win15 for the disability community and for us all.16 So thank you so very much.17 The implementation of the18 Communications and video Accessibility Act is19 a high priority for both the Commission and20 my office. It is essential that more than 5421 million Americans who are living with22 disabilities have the same level of access to1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 advanced communication services as other2 Americans.3 To that end, there are two4 initiatives that come into effect next month5 that I'm especially pleased to highlight this6 morning. Starting July 1st, as you know, the7 big four broadcast networks, ABC, CBS, FOX8 and NBC, as well as the top five rated cable9 networks will be required to provide audio10 descriptions of some of their popular11 programming for blind or sight-impaired12 viewers.13 This technology can be described14 as a sort of narration that will accompany15 the pre-recorded dialogue and it will16 illustrate on-screen action for popular17 comedies, dramas and children's programming.18 These regulations may escalate19 over time in terms of the number of required20 stations and hours.21 Also set to launch next month is22 the National Deaf/Blind Equipment1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Distribution Program. This program provides2 up to $10 million per year for the local3 distribution of communications equipment to4 low-income individuals who are deaf/blind.5 The first phase of this program6 national outreach will begin next month and7 will be conducted by the Perkins School for8 the Blind in partnership with the Helen9 Keller National Center for deaf/blind youths10 and adults and FableVision, Inc.11 Both Perkins and the Helen Keller12 National Center are doing a great job to13 serve the needs of millions of Americans who14 live with disabilities and will get the15 information about this program out to16 consumers and service providers.17 These are two solid ways that the18 Commission is working to address the19 communications needs of the community and I20 have no doubt that the Committee will come up21 with many more creative ways for the FCC to22 do more.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 We have been busy in other areas2 as well. The Commission adopted reforms to3 the Universal Service Fund, you might have4 heard about that, updating the fund to meet5 modern-day realities and putting it on a more6 sustainable path going forward.7 Mobile service uses has exploded8 and broadband access is a key gateway by9 which many Americans obtain critical10 information and services.11 So the Universal Service Fund12 needed to be updated to reflect these current13 realities. The reforms we adopted this past14 October will promote significant broadband15 deployment to millions of unserved consumers16 over the next six years.17 What is most important to me is18 that our reform carefully balances the need19 for certainty and predictability for carriers20 by avoiding flash cuts and providing21 transition so carriers may adjust to the22 changes.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 It is no secret that I have a2 deep connection to rural America and I3 believe that these reforms will allow us to4 come even closer to achieving Congress' goal5 of providing all Americans access to6 affordable voice and advanced communication7 services.8 I recognize, however, that9 current efforts to modernize the fund may not10 resolve all of the issues that were raised in11 the proceeding. So this Agency continues to12 work very hard to hear everyone's concerns13 and address them in a timely fashion.14 At all times, we have had an open15 door policy and we have worked diligently16 towards resolutions that benefits consumers17 and help us achieve our Universal Service18 goals.19 I wish to mention one final20 thing. This April, the Commission adopted21 rules to protect Americans from telephone22 Cramming. Many consumers fail to realize1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 when there are unauthorized charges on their2 bills, so these charges often go undetected3 for months or even years.4 Our new rules strengthen the5 Commission's disclosure requirements on6 telephone companies, so that consumers will7 have an easier time spotting Crammers. This8 is an ongoing process, however, and much more9 can be done to protect consumers.10 If there are any additional ways11 to empower consumers to prevent Cramming, we12 want to hear about them. So the comment13 period in this proceeding will remain open14 until June 25th. And I encourage you and all15 others interested to participate.16 So, Debbie and the Committee,17 thank you once again for your unselfish18 commitment to public service. And I am19 grateful to be a partner and remaining20 engaged with you as we make this21 communications and media marketplace more22 inclusive.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Thank you so very much.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank3 you very much. We have time for a question.4 Yes?5 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Hello.6 Good morning.7 MS. WALT: Dorothy Walt speaking8 from the Helen Keller National Center. I9 would like to applaud FCC for all of the10 efforts on behalf of people with11 disabilities.12 I'm curious as many of the things13 are happening right now are doing work with14 some of the people with some specific kinds15 of disability, but I know that a lot of these16 things that are happening does not have17 anything available for people who are hard of18 hearing, deaf and very low vision.19 Don't we -- cannot benefit from20 interpreting services. Many of the senior21 citizens and many other people who are deaf/22 blind, who are low vision and deaf or hard of1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 hearing, put large captions when you talk2 about TV programs being captioned, where they3 will be able to have the capability of making4 them large print, so that people can read5 them.6 Those kinds of things have not7 been addressed, not that I know of. Maybe I8 missed it. I just wanted to bring this up9 for everyone's attention. Thank you very10 much.11 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: I12 appreciate you so much. Very nice to meet13 you, number one. I appreciate so much you14 affirming some of the challenges. And in15 terms of the communities in which their might16 be multiple challenges, I assure you that17 there is more enhanced attention. I think I18 mentioned it a few moments ago, again, to19 those challenges and we are constantly20 engaged and are being more affirmative in21 that end.22 So I think you will see over the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 coming months and years that what you might2 -- what have been disconnects to that end, I3 think you will be increasingly pleased over4 the next few months that those issues with5 person with, again, more enhanced challenges6 will be addressed.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone on the8 phone have a question? Okay. Thank you very9 much, Commissioner Clyburn.10 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you.11 I appreciate it.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you13 for coming.14 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: And I15 appreciate your engagement and your16 willingness to work with us and both17 challenge us on the issues we all care about.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you very19 much.20 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you.21 (Applause)22 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Deborah and Sharon, so back to your2 presentation.3 MS. BRODERSON: Thank you very4 much. Okay. I just wanted to follow-up. I5 don't think we answered both parts of the6 last question about the discussions that had7 happened about releasing all of the complaint8 categories.9 I think that is discussions that10 had happened about releasing all of the11 complaint categories. I think that is12 something that might have left -- I think13 that's something that Joel was invested in.14 Joel left the Bureau and I think it might15 have dropped off our radar, so it's something16 that we will bring back and talk to Kris17 about, because I know it's not something that18 have been in discussions lately, so I19 appreciate you bringing that back up to our20 attention.21 MS. BOWERS: As we start our22 process of reviewing the Complaint and1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Inquiry Reform, some of the objectives that2 we are trying to overcome is we want to3 improve our Consumer Web Interface. And if4 you are familiar with our website, you can5 click on the tool bar in front and you can6 comment or you can complain.7 Once you click on complain, it8 takes you to two navigation screens that9 depending on how a consumer answers a10 specific question, it leads them to a series11 of forms.12 Now, Deborah and I have been here13 a long time and we know how to complain about14 things, because we have been here a long15 time. But how does the average consumer16 complain?17 I make it a personal note to18 check my wireless bill every month to make19 sure there is no Cramming on there, that they20 are not charging me the .99 cent data charge.21 And how do consumers complain? How do we22 educate them and how do we get that complaint1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 data captured and going in the right2 direction?3 So we want to look at how we4 intake the data. We also want to ensure5 consistency. We have -- I have a group of6 staff in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, 30 CAMS,7 Consumer Advocacy and Mediation Specialist,8 and then I have a group here in D.C.9 And one of the challenges that we10 have is a lot of the complaints are11 subjective. And Deborah and I could code a12 complaint. She could code it one way and I13 could code it another.14 So a way that we have looked at15 this is to reach out to this group and ask16 you how consumers are complaining. What17 terms mean something to a consumer and then18 to specialize our staff into that specific19 subject matter, so that we can catch some of20 these spikes.21 This will also help us improve22 the accuracy of our coding and of the data1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that is coming through and help us to better2 enhance the information that we provide to3 the bureaus for regulatory activities.4 MS. BRODERSON: I think Sharon5 already mentioned some of the challenges that6 we face. And you can probably imagine some7 of them as well, if you have ever filed a8 complaint with us. Maybe you have some other9 challenges you would like to bring to our10 attention.11 A complaint that we hear fairly12 often is that the Consumer Interface can be13 kind of complicated or maybe you know exactly14 what you want and you have a pretty15 sophisticated understanding of what you are16 complaining about, but that category isn't17 really on our website. And, you know, that's18 something that we are working on.19 As anyone who works in telecom20 knows, the issues change overnight. New21 technologies develop. You can't always22 update our website in time to capture new1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 issues. So that's something we are2 definitely working on ways to make the3 complaint categories general enough to4 capture everything, but specific enough that5 it helps us, because if everyone just files a6 complaint, then we have to read all of them7 manually.8 And also, we know that we tend --9 we can use jargons. Sometimes the10 terminology doesn't make any sense. I mean,11 wire-line makes sense to us. I don't know12 how much sense it makes to a lot of13 consumers. So that's a struggle.14 MS. KARMARKAR: On the coding15 issue that you were just raising? Oh, sorry,16 Radhika Karmarkar from New York City. And I17 just was on the coding issue that Sharon was18 raising.19 One thing that I know we are20 trying to figure out is that we do get21 complaints about sort of broadband or triple22 play and we are trying to figure out how much1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 of those things are kind of falling through2 the cracks because of sort of uncertainty in3 that area.4 And it would be useful to get a5 feel of when those issues come into -- I6 noticed that the category was sort of7 broadband/VoIP, but what is the question? Is8 it a billing question? Are they confused9 about what plan they signed up for? Is it a10 service question? The Internet is going out11 too frequently or it is not at the -- I mean,12 I know there are separate things being done13 at the FCC on speeds and so on, but just that14 type.15 And then I would also reiterate16 with Mitsi that just the regional or the17 state-by-state or whatever area breakdowns.18 MS. BOWERS: Great. Good points,19 good points.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott has a21 question.22 MR. BERGMANN: Actually, I wanted1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 to thank you guys. We are really pleased2 that you all are taking a look at these3 issues and the coding questions as well, too.4 We are certainly --5 CHAIR BERLYN: Identify yourself.6 MR. BERGMANN: Oh, thanks, Deb.7 Scott Bergmann with CTIA. I just wanted to8 say thank you to you all for undertaking this9 review of how the complaints come in, how10 they are coded. We are very interested in11 that as well, too, because, you know, we are12 interested in feedback.13 And, you know, one of the things14 I noticed is that when you put up the top15 complaints, the one for wireless was TCPA.16 And so that's always very much of interest to17 our industry, because, interestingly enough,18 those complaints are really about unwanted19 calls and tax from third-party marketers as20 opposed to from wireless providers.21 So when you look at complaint in22 the mobile space, that is by far the greatest1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 area of complaints. So having some2 additional visibility into, you know, where3 customers are actually having problems, I4 think, would probably help the Commission in5 its policy making efforts and in its6 enforcement efforts to sort of know where to7 focus its resources.8 So thank you guys for that and we9 are happy to engage with you and help try to10 be partners in that effort.11 MS. BRODERSON: Well, and I think12 there are different models for transparency13 in our consumer reports, our quarterly14 reports. And I think just the kind of data15 analysis that we are hoping to increase, it16 sounds like would be of help to almost17 everyone in the room and I think to the18 Commission as well, so that's definitely19 something that we would love to work towards.20 MS. BOWERS: Some internal21 solutions that we have been looking at is to,22 first, start coordinating with the bureaus.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I mean, we have our contacts with the2 bureaus, but a really in depth look at what3 are the bureaus needing to support their4 policy?5 Review our category codes. As6 Deborah had said earlier, some of our codes7 are redundant. Some of them are legacy codes8 that have been around for quite some time.9 And, as we know, as wireless -- as the10 technology advances, we are behind the times11 a bit.12 So to review those category13 codes:14 Redrafting the codes to ensure15 that they are accurate, they are clear, clear16 to us and clear to the consumer when they go17 to file that complaint on-line.18 Ensure that our CAMS, Consumer19 Advocacy and Mediation Specialist, have the20 latest consumer guides that will coordinate21 with the codes and the rest of what the FCC22 is doing, so we are all speaking from one1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 page.2 And increasing the analysis of3 the data.4 And back to your question, we5 also have subcategories of codes. So we6 probably need to take a look at the subcats7 to make sure that they make sense for how the8 codes are captured to drill down to the9 billing or the service issues as it relates10 to broadband or, you know, other issues.11 MS. BRODERSON: And one of the12 challenges that we didn't mention, but again13 that I think would be pretty obvious in this14 room, is that consumers just don't always15 know what their problem is, so, you know,16 Consumer Complaint Reform only makes sense if17 you are also reforming consumer education and18 that's why we want to coordinate every time a19 new consumer facing item come out of the20 Commission, we want to make sure that we have21 a consumer guide ready to go, that we have22 the CAMS educated to take calls, that we have1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 our website updated, so it's all part of the2 same process.3 So this is the part where -- yes,4 this is the part for you guys. And I think5 we will be talking and working more with your6 Chairperson on --7 CHAIR BERLYN: Ken has a8 question.9 MS. BRODERSON: Oh, please.10 MR. McELDOWNEY: Hi. Before we11 got --12 CHAIR BERLYN: No, identify13 yourself first.14 MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. Yes,15 sorry. Ken McEldowney, Consumer Action.16 Before we get to the codes and the fun stuff,17 I guess I had a couple of questions.18 One is that do you track the19 complaints by language?20 MS. BRODERSON: That's a good21 question. No.22 MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. That's--1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. BRODERSON: You mean, by2 English, Spanish?3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes.4 MS. BRODERSON: Oh, what do we5 take -- we intake in English and Spanish. Is6 that right, Sharon?7 MS. BOWERS: Yes, we do. We do8 intake English and Spanish and sign language.9 MR. McELDOWNEY: No. I guess my10 question goes to -- what? Yes, my question11 goes beyond that.12 Certainly, I -- you know, I'm13 with Consumer Action and we handle complaints14 in English, Spanish, Cantonese and Mandarin.15 But more importantly, I think we track the16 complaints by language. And I think if you17 are not tracking complaints by language, you18 are going to end up not knowing at all in19 terms of whether or not you are adequately20 reaching those populations.21 So, for example, we had a very22 major cell phone scam that was being pushed1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 in the San Francisco/Chinatown and also in2 the Vietnamese in San Jose. You know, you3 can't get that information unless not only do4 you handle information in those languages,5 but also track them by a language.6 The second thing is the you -- on7 your website is the complaint form available8 in Spanish?9 MS. BRODERSON: Yes, it is.10 MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. Good.11 MS. BOWERS: Those are good12 suggestions.13 MS. BRODERSON: And we do14 translate our consumer guides. They are all15 translated. They are all available in16 English and translated into Spanish. And17 some of the most consumer-specific guides, we18 translate into other languages. So we have19 for the Digital Television transition, we had20 I don't know how many languages, 10? I don't21 know. I had a big sheet of them, I know I22 remember.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So but I think that's an2 excellent point for the interim discussion.3 All right. So we were at the fun4 stuff. I think we will be working with your5 Chairperson on the sort of specifics of this.6 We wanted to highlight the things that we7 think the CAC would be really helpful for.8 And we also have sort of general suggestions9 to throw out to the IAC as well, so for those10 of you in the room.11 So we mentioned our Complaint12 Codes. We have codes when consumers call in,13 the CAMS categorize the complaints and the14 inquiries. A lot of them are so specific, so15 technical that the chance that a consumer is16 going to call up and complain about this is17 very slim.18 So we would really like to think19 of -- to present brainstorms a key word. You20 are a consumer and you have this kind of21 problem, give you a description of the22 problem. How would you describe it? What1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 kind of words would you use? That would be2 really helpful.3 It seems like something we should4 be able to do, but we just haven't really5 done that well on that.6 Also, testing our on-line7 complaint system. I know some of you have8 already mentioned this and I heard in the IAC9 yesterday about our on-line system. And I10 hear from friends, you know, my aunt wanted11 to file a complaint about something and she12 couldn't figure out how to do it on your13 website. 14 So practice filing a complaint up15 to the point where you actually file a16 complaint, ideally. You know, are our forms17 clear? Do you have extra information and18 there is nowhere to put it? Are you just not19 able to find the right category? Should we20 have a more generic category? Would that be21 helpful?22 All of -- those are the kinds of1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 sort of beta testing issues that we would2 love the CACs help with.3 And the IVR, Sharon, do you want4 to talk about the IVR?5 MS. BOWERS: Yes. The IVR is the6 voice that you hear when you call 888-CALL-7 FCC. You might hear my voice. You might8 hear a CAMS that works for me, their voice.9 You might hear Deborah's voice. We are not10 really sure whose voice is all through the11 IVR, that's our point. We need help with the12 content on the IVR and the quality of the13 IVR.14 And we just recently moved our15 Gettysburg office to VoIP and we have some16 enhancements that we can make to the IVR, but17 we would like to know what makes sense to a18 consumer.19 And we have all called IVRs. We20 have all had experiences good or bad. And we21 would like to know what suggestions you might22 have. And what we are looking at is, first1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 of all, some times the IVR doesn't help. You2 really do need to speak to someone. And we3 are ready to speak to consumers who need our4 assistance, but then there is times that5 you-- we are all busy. You don't really need6 to speak with someone, you just need an7 address.8 But we would like to know how9 easy is it to get to a person? We would also10 like to know if the options make sense on our11 IVR? Are they clear? Are you pushing the12 right button and getting to where you think13 you need to be to get the question answered?14 We also have the Universal15 Licensing System, which handles all of our16 licensing questions. So many times folks who17 have a licensing question end up in our shop18 and our stuff ends up in their shop. And we19 would like to know how we can better20 communicate that to consumers.21 Is the language plain? Again, no22 industry terms. Is it -- are we really1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 advising folks properly on how to get to2 where they need to be to get their question3 answered. Of course, our voice recordings, a4 lot of the records are dubs. We really don't5 have a professional voice. I'm about as6 professional as it comes, so that's scary.7 But, you know, it's dub overs and8 retakes and, you know, let us know where we9 need to make some real improvements there.10 And then if we had money, I don't11 know, Kris, do we have money? If we had12 money to make some changes to our IVR, what13 one thing could we do that would really be14 meaningful to a consumer contacting --15 calling through our IVR? Would it be a touch16 pad where they could check on the status of a17 complaint? Would it be an interactive voice18 where they actually talk through and it leads19 them through?20 What technology could we put on21 the IVR that would really be meaningful and22 be helpful? So that's what we are looking at1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 for IVR projects.2 MS. BRODERSON: And I know we are3 almost out of time. For the IAC, for those4 of you in the room, I think sitting in your5 consumer complaint session yesterday, what6 struck me was that the -- we could definitely7 improve the path for communication between8 the Commission and the states, local9 governments, local entities, especially the10 referral process which came up again today.11 So I think that working with us12 to determine best practices for that kind of13 improving that communication enhancing,14 reporting back to the states on complaints on15 a state-by-state basis, definitely is16 something that we would love to talk to the17 IAC.18 And to the extent that the CAC19 has input in that as well, absolutely. So I20 think that's our presentation. I think we21 have had -- if we have time for questions, I22 would defer.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Yes,2 we will start with questions. We anticipate3 Commissioner Pai's arrival, but we have some4 time for questions. So if you could -- oh, i5 see numerous. Oh, everybody has been busy6 raising cards. And, Paul, put your card up.7 Don't just -- yes. So all right. I'll8 remember that you are putting your card up.9 I'll try and remember that.10 I have no idea what order people11 did this in, so I'm just going to start on12 this side of the room. Mary, then Paul,13 because I just saw Paul's go up, so Mary,14 then Paul and then I'll continue down around15 the room. So Mary?16 MS. CRESPY: Hi. I'm Mary Crespy17 with Verizon. It's good to see you, Sharon.18 MS. BOWERS: Good to see you.19 MS. CRESPY: Since you asked20 about the website, there is one issue,21 unfortunately, that is an increasing problem22 for our -- for customers of wireless services1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 and that is text spam.2 And as a consumer I get,3 unfortunately, text spam and I know what to4 do. So I went to the FCC's website to5 complain. It is not easy to -- it is not an6 easy category. You think it would be, but7 it's not.8 If you go into the Telemarketing9 Complaint Section, it says that is where you10 put in text spam, but once you go in there,11 there is no place for text spam. It's all12 about calls to your landline. And then if13 you go into the Wireless Section, there is14 complaints for calls and for emails and other15 things, but no text spam.16 And since it is an increasing17 problem, I think you might really want to18 zero in on that and make it very easy to19 complain, so you can really gather20 information on what a growing problem this21 has become.22 CHAIR BERLYN: And just to let1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 everybody know before we go into the Q&A2 session, we are going to be talking later3 about how we are going to participate in4 giving the FCC feedback. So we are going to5 have a process for this, so just to let you6 know that. Paul?7 MR. SCHROEDER: Thank you. Paul8 Schroeder with the American Foundation for9 the Blind. A couple things. One is I think10 the disability community definitely wants to11 give you feedback on the website and we need12 to do it in a structured way, so, Deborah,13 thanks for your comment on that already.14 On complaints, I want to -- this15 question started to be asked, but I want to16 try to understand it better. A couple of17 things. One is there is, as our person from18 New York pointed out, a load of things that19 come under, I'm sure broadcast programming,20 cable satellite programming as major21 complaint items, VoIP bundling.22 Are most of the programming-1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 related items, do they relate to missing2 channels, missing programs, indecency? You3 know, I'm just mad because why the heck did4 they put Dallas on again? I mean, it was a5 terrible show to start with. I don't know.6 I mean, what are -- I mean, and it kind of7 leads to my question, which is how -- to what8 percent of the complaints are actually9 remediable or actionable that you got that10 can actually be acted upon?11 And then I guess the third thing12 and it kind of gets back to using the data,13 what can be done? 90,000 complaints in a14 quarter seems like a lot. And if a high15 percentage of those are actionable, what can16 be done to push policies that potentially17 regulatory action of the Commission that18 might actually lead to fewer complaints19 needing to be lodged. Is that something that20 you are looking at?21 MS. BOWERS: Well, first of all,22 Paul, everything that you mentioned, Major1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 League Baseball, I think, was -- is it on,2 because I'm not sure? Can you hear me? Oh,3 I'm not close enough. Okay.4 Everything that you mentioned is5 the types of complaints that we see. I think6 you missed out Major League Baseball, they7 can't get their channel for that. And for8 the most part, what the CAMS try to do is9 advocate the issue. Try to resolve the10 issue.11 And we are limited as to what we12 can do. That's -- I can't begin to tell you13 enough about the CAMS that sit on the front14 line to take the calls and deal with the15 complaints, because we are limited in how we16 can resolve some of these issues.17 And for the most part, I think we18 are able to handle the individual complaint19 to the degree that the consumer leaves20 somewhat satisfied or at least knowing, you21 know, here are your options to try to resolve22 the issue. Did you want to take the question1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 on future?2 MS. BRODERSON: Well, I think the3 point you raised, I think your third point,4 about how we can address these issues, we5 have this high volume of complaints, that's6 exactly why we are trying to improve our data7 analysis to help inform the kind of8 regulatory action the Commission could take9 or not necessarily regulatory actions, just10 cooperation with industry to see what we can11 do to address these consumer concerns.12 I mean, you asked what percentage13 were remediable, you know. I don't know. We14 don't have statistics on that necessarily,15 because, you know, I mean, some of that it's16 kind of subjective, but we certainly do our17 best to address -- either address each issue18 with a consumer or refer it to an entity, the19 FTC or a state PUC who can.20 So, yes, we don't have any hard21 and fast stats on that part.22 CHAIR BERLYN: So I'm going to --1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 if you don't mind, we have so many questions,2 we are going to get back to questions for3 just a bit, but I am going to ask if folks4 could hold and I'm going to ask Commissioner5 Pai to come to the table.6 It is my pleasure to introduce7 Commissioner Pai, who is the other new8 arrival to the Commission. And it's a9 pleasure to have you here today. You are10 also not a real stranger to the FCC. You11 served as a staff member in the Office of the12 General Counsel for several years at the FCC.13 And I hope that you will be a frequent14 visitor to the Consumer Advisory Committee.15 It's a pleasure to have you here today and16 welcome.17 COMMISSIONER PAI: Well, thank18 you. Thank you very much, Chairperson19 Berlyn. I appreciate the introduction. And20 thanks to all of you as well for taking time21 out of your meeting to accommodate me.22 I just wanted to say hello and1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 introduce myself. I am Ajit Pai. I have got2 all of four weeks of tenure now at the3 Commission, so I feel like a grizzled4 veteran, at this point, of the5 communications wars.6 But no, seriously, it has been a7 fantastic reintroduction to the Commission.8 I love this Agency. I love the work that we9 do and I love this industry. And I think it10 is such a privilege to be able to serve in11 this capacity.12 I also wanted to thank you for13 the work that you are doing on the Committee.14 I think a lot of the times people, when they15 think about the FCC, at least people within16 this building, they would think about17 products and services and devices and18 equipment, but none of that really means19 anything until the rubber meets the road and20 the road is the consumer.21 And so, you know, the question is22 is the industry, is the Commission doing1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 everything it can to make the communication2 services and products that we all enjoy work3 for the consumer?4 And so to that extent, your input5 is extremely valuable. I think the6 Commission's decision making is just enriched7 by having a variety of perspectives on these8 issues. And I know that, from my own9 personal experiences as I was explaining10 yesterday to another committee, people have a11 lot of complaints about communications.12 And I have now become a more13 frequent recipient of such complaints, even14 from my own family. So I know that, you15 know, there is a lot of interest in making16 the industry work better for consumers.17 And so to the extent that I can18 play any role in, you know, helping consumers19 have a better experience, that's something20 that is certainly a priority for me. And I21 don't have anything beyond that other than to22 say, you know, it's good to be here and if1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 you have any questions, comments, I would be2 happy to field them.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone have a4 quick question for the Commissioner? I know5 you have your cards up for the other6 questions, but you could raise your hand for7 this one if you have a question.8 Mitsi has a question.9 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,10 Cable and Broadband Administrator from11 Montgomery County. Welcome. Thanks for12 coming to see us. I was just curious, is13 there one particular issue that is close to14 your heart or that you are looking to focus15 on?16 COMMISSIONER PAI: I feel like17 I'm sort of a jack-of-all-trades. I love,18 you know, the full pamphlet of issues within19 the Commission's jurisdiction. Some of the20 more-- the bigger priorities, I guess, I21 would say is a Spectrum policy writ-large. I22 mean, obviously, Congress has just given us1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 incentive option authority and that's going2 to consume a lot of the Commission's time3 over the coming months and years.4 But also to other Spectrum5 policies, you know, working with the Federal6 Government to relinquish or share Spectrum.7 Identifying other bands that can be either8 allocated more efficiently or can be used9 more efficiently, you know, on Tuesdays or10 Wednesday, I guess, it was that we voted on a11 4.9 gigahertz item to improve the use of the12 band, which hasn't been used as much as we13 thought it would have back in 1999 and 2002.14 So really trying to get more15 Spectrum out into the marketplace. And I16 think the reason is that the Spectrum17 shortage ultimately re-downs to the detriment18 of consumers. If there is not as much19 Spectrum, then carriers feel like they have20 to impose even more stringent policies in21 terms of voice and data use or increased22 prices.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And ultimately, like I was saying2 in my initial comments, where the rubber3 meets the road is the consumer is not going4 to have, you know, the same level or quality5 of service that he or she might have enjoyed6 previously.7 So Spectrum policy, I think, is8 the biggest thing on our plate right now. I9 guess the only other -- there are a bunch of10 other areas within which the Commission is11 working on, but one of the other priorities,12 I guess, that our office has is trying to get13 to the Commission to be a little more nimble14 in terms of keeping pace with the marketplace15 and technological innovation.16 I have been struggling the last17 several weeks by how many companies across a18 variety of different communications19 industries have said that, you know, they are20 waiting for Commission action on X or Y. And21 regardless of what the action is, it would22 just be nice to have some certainty there.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And so to the extent that our2 office can play a role in these issues, we3 would like to bring a sense of, you now,4 vigor and dispatch to the Agency's decision5 making in order to benefit, you know, not6 just the industry, but ultimately consumers.7 MS. HERRERA: Okay. If I could8 just quickly say, that's great to hear. And9 I would just encourage you to look not only10 at that, but also within the FCC and your11 current roles.12 COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.13 MS. HERRERA: You have customer14 service regulations that you have not updated15 since they were first enacted in '92 and16 where you are limited in what you can17 enforce, you yourself wrote the rules and18 your lack of updating them inhibits the19 services you can provide.20 Your cable standards are still21 analog, not digital. 22 COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. HERRERA: We have a petition2 that has been pending on the AT&T that has3 been sitting out there for three years, so we4 would be happy to let -- do that, but I would5 just sort of encourage you. There is a long6 list of stuff that you have got in-house that7 probably is in some work process. 8 COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.9 MS. HERRERA: And so giving it a10 kickstart may be what you need and you could11 probably knock them out pretty quick.12 COMMISSIONER PAI: Absolutely.13 Please, do let us know. I mean, don't -- we14 have an open door policy in our office and we15 welcome, you know, if there are specific16 docket numbers or proceedings that you want17 us to take a look at, do let us know, because18 we have already taken action on a few things.19 And my previous iteration of the20 general counsel's office, I was always amazed21 that there are some proceedings that had been22 lingering for a couple of decades, in some1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 cases without action. So if I have anything2 to say about it, that won't continue to be3 the case.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, thank you so5 much, Commissioner, for giving us your time.6 And we look forward to seeing you again.7 COMMISSIONER PAI: Thanks.8 CHAIR BERLYN: So thank you very9 much.10 COMMISSIONER PAI: Thanks for11 having me. Appreciate it.12 (Applause)13 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So we are14 talking here. We have so many questions, so15 many questions, so little time. And that16 just seems to always happen. But I don't --17 this is so important and we do want to figure18 out-- we have our own process where we are19 going to be helping you with this, so we need20 to be well-informed.21 We also need to take a break and22 we have a panel coming up. I'm wondering,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Scott, if when we -- we probably do have time2 in the afternoon to -- we will be talking3 about this process. And I'm wondering if4 Deborah and Sharon might be willing to come5 back when we are talking about our process,6 if there is some time, when we might be able7 to continue this discussion with questions.8 And maybe during our -- why don't9 we take a five minute break now and we will10 figure this out, because I don't -- we don't11 want to lose your questions in this process,12 because this is so important.13 So let's see if we can figure14 that out. Let's take a five or maybe --15 let's be realistic. Let's take a 10 minute16 break, but, please, be back. Thank you.17 (Whereupon, at 10:45 a.m. a18 recess until 11:03 a.m.)19 CHAIR BERLYN: So just to let you20 all know, what we are going to do with our21 schedule is that I've got Sharon and Deborah22 are going to come back at 11:50. And we are1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 going to carve a little bit of time out of2 the Spectrum session at 11:50 and start our3 Spectrum session after -- we will have about4 15 minutes for questions with Sharon and5 Deborah.6 Then we will start out Spectrum7 session and slide our lunch -- we will see8 how much time we need for the Spectrum9 session. We have probably a little bit more10 time on the Spectrum session than we might11 need. We will see. But then we will see if12 we get back on schedule or not, but we can13 slide a little into the lunch if we need to.14 So we will have them back at15 11:50, just to let you know.16 So we have a panel here. Before17 I introduce our panel, I know a number of18 people came in a little late this morning, so19 now is an opportunity to point out who you20 are and have you introduce yourselves to the21 group very quickly. Just say your name and22 identify who you are with.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So let's go around the room. If2 you didn't get a chance to introduce3 yourselves this morning, please, do so now.4 MR. SCHROEDER: Okay. Well, I'm5 one of them, Paul Schroeder, American6 Foundation for the Blind. I've been on time7 every other meeting though.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 9 MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard,10 National Association of State Utility11 Consumer Advocates.12 CHAIR BERLYN: And make sure you13 raise your hand, because -- and give it a14 second, because the booth sometimes doesn't15 see you and then we don't have it recorded.16 So say it again, Charlie.17 MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard,18 National Association --19 CHAIR BERLYN: It's still not up.20 MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard,21 National Association of State Utility22 Consumer Advocates.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: There we go.2 Anyone else on this side? Towards the back,3 anyone in the back? Oh, wait, there.4 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker. Is it5 on? Chris Baker with AARP.6 MS. LEECH: Irene Leech.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Got you.8 MS. LEECH: With the Consumer9 Federation of America.10 MS. WEIN: Olivia Wein, National11 Consumer Law Center.12 MS. KEARNEY: Julie Kearney,13 Consumer Electronics Association. And this14 is like the walk of shame.15 CHAIR BERLYN: I really didn't16 intend that.17 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,18 Cable and Broadband Administrator from19 Montgomery County. And I am in fine company.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you21 all. I just wanted to make sure that you22 were recognized.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Okay. So now, we are really2 fortunate. This is a topic, of course as you3 all know, that is so important, the Broadband4 Adoption issue. And our Broadband Working5 Group, Mark and Kris, our Working Group6 Chairs, could also pipe in on this, but we7 have three folks here: Cecilia who is a8 Member of our CAC, of course, and two others9 who are joining us to talk about Broadband10 Adoption.11 I will very quickly introduce12 them. Sitting right next to me, Elizabeth13 Crocker, who is with the Foundation for Rural14 Services, which is NTCA, National Telephone15 -- Telecom Cooperative. It's no longer16 telephone. It used to be telephone. Now,17 it's -- now, everything is telecom.18 Telecommunications Cooperative Association.19 And sitting next to her is Thomas20 Koutsky, Chief Policy Counsel, with21 Connection Nation.22 And our three panelists today are1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 going to give us some updates on Broadband2 Adoption from various different perspectives.3 And so we are really pleased to have them4 here today. We didn't discuss an order for5 this, but I think it might be helpful to have6 Tom to have you start us off, because I know7 you have some stats and things like that for8 us.9 MR. KOUTSKY: Okay. Sure, happy10 to. And if you could call up -- I have a11 slide presentation that is -- there we go.12 That was simple. It's like magic.13 MR. SCHROEDER: Debra, just14 quickly, I apologize. I'm sorry, Paul15 Schroeder with AFB. Tom, I could not open16 your PowerPoint and it came late, in any17 event, so, please, be sure to speak up --18 speak out any of the information that's on19 the screen that needs to be communicated,20 because it's not going to be accessible, at21 least to me and perhaps others.22 MR. KOUTSKY: Sure. I will do my1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 best and I will -- but to put a word of2 warning on that, I have a bunch of slides3 that I have pulled from different4 presentations that have a lot of just5 adoption numbers. I don't intend to speak to6 them all. I really just kind of wanted to7 illustrate. I'll do my best to describe what8 I'm trying to -- the points I'm trying to9 illustrate.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.11 MR. KOUTSKY: And then get you12 another copy that you can open.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.14 MR. KOUTSKY: Just, you know, I15 would like to -- I'm really thankful and16 appreciative of the invitation from Debbie17 and the FCC to speak here today. You know, I18 used to work at this -- actually, as we19 looked at the former Commissioners or the new20 Commissioners, I used to work at this Agency21 as well. I have had two stints at the FCC.22 Most recently on the National Broadband Plant1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Team. And so these are issues that I care2 very deeply about.3 And it is -- what is interesting4 about my current job is that I'm able to kind5 of go and study questions and issues related6 to Broadband Adoption and the utilization7 that are facing America's communities.8 And there was one really point9 about -- I've been like a telecommunications10 infrastructure guy, basically, for much of my11 career working with a lot of start-up12 telephone companies. And coming to the13 National Broadband Team here at the FCC14 really made an impression on me in terms of15 thinking about the adoption and use challenge16 that this nation has.17 I mean, we can kind of debate and18 we spend -- oh, I don't even want to know how19 much money we spend here, it's over $420 billion a year on infrastructure subsidies to21 get broadband out to rural areas. And that's22 certainly needed in a lot of instances and in1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 a lot of cases.2 But when we have an important3 infrastructure that, you know, is absolutely4 critical to economic growth and social5 development and we have a third of the nation6 not adopting it or using it, you know,7 sufficiently, that's a significant economic8 drag upon our country's economic future and9 social development.10 And, you know, there are even11 some instances, as I started in my current12 job, we have worked basically with, I'll just13 kind of fast-forward ahead in the slideshow,14 states and local governments to help them15 understand the broadband challenges that they16 face. We operate through the NTIA, State17 Broadband Initiative Grant Program. I have18 listed the states and areas here.19 And to really let communities and20 states know about the challenges they face.21 And so this, I think, is really important22 that you are talking about Broadband Adoption1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 from the consumer perspective and from the2 adoption perspective, because it's absolutely3 critical that our country face these problems4 and that this Agency face this problem in a5 realistic problem-solving way, not a headline6 grabbing way, but in terms of actually doing7 some tangible -- getting some tangible8 results.9 This is -- again, these are some10 very basic facts. You all hear this. If you11 read enough speeches from FCC Commissioners,12 you get all of these points eventually, so13 I'm not going to dwell on them.14 But the real important point is15 that as long as we have a third of the16 country that hasn't adopted broadband, two17 things happen. First of all, this has a18 direct impact on the case for future19 broadband investment and growth in terms of20 the network side. You know, it's very21 difficult to get constantly upgraded networks22 if there is -- you know, if they are not1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 necessarily fully utilized, but also, the2 economic and social development.3 We have seen in recent years with4 the economic difficulties in this country, a5 definite flattening in the Broadband Adoption6 curve. And this is -- you know, if there is7 like one or two points you take away from one8 another about the -- what to talk about, you9 know, look at this graph on the right which10 really shows an adoption of broadband to11 undertaking an S-curve pattern, where it12 starts off very low and then it escalates13 beginning in 2001/2002 rather sharply up to14 until it runs across about 60 percent of the15 United States households and then it flattens16 off.17 It flattens off in 2009/2010 and18 even starts to dip. And, you know, the dip19 is actually really concerning, because it20 does indicate that there is some, you know as21 an economist would say, elasticity of demand22 for broadband service.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 At certain prices, you know,2 people start to think twice about buying it3 and then in economic difficulties, they start4 to think twice, you know, they even start to5 think about disconnecting it. so that6 flattening is really, really important.7 On the Broadband Plant Team, we8 have built a lot of the design assumption.9 This is actually called a Gompertz curve.10 There is a phrase for this S-curve adoption11 and you see it for every technology, consumer12 technology that has been put in place from13 color TVs to VCRs to, you know, computers.14 They all follow this S-curve type adoption.15 They all flatten out in some way.16 Now, for color TV, I think you17 could probably argue that at around 9518 percent of TVs, you know, it's not that big19 of a deal. But for broadband technology, if20 that S-curve flattens out at 65 percent, we21 have a significant social challenge and22 economic challenge in our country, because1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that is one- third, you know, of Americans2 that, you know, will not have the same3 opportunities for their kids, will face it4 more increasingly difficult to even do some5 things such as accessing basic Government6 services.7 There was an interesting set of8 studies on how expensive it is to be poor in9 this country. It is actually very expensive10 to be poor, because if you are limited and if11 you don't have a car and you're limited to12 the neighborhood grocery store, you pay for13 more milk. And if you have to take half a14 day to get your Social Security check15 processed and wait in line, because you don't16 have on-line access to do the same function,17 that costs you money. That is time you had18 to put your kids, you know, in child care or19 that you had to take off of work.20 Just a few slides and again, you21 know, we're happy to talk about, you know,22 certainly these numbers. Whenever I think1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 about when Debbie invited me to do this, I2 almost instinctively, you know, moved towards3 thinking about the adoption gap among the4 elderly, because she is such a good advocate5 for the groups that she has worked with, that6 they do stick out.7 So I have, you know, indulged her8 with some statistics about, you know,9 difference in adoption and ages. And I think10 the important thing to see here from this11 slide are not the numbers themselves, but to12 understand that there are different reasons13 why people don't adopt broadband service.14 And they do vary by age and demographic15 group.16 What we see here is that for17 young Americans or younger households, ages18 18 to 54, the largest barrier to entry is19 cost. These numbers were actually20 demonstrated by or were gathered through21 state surveys that Connected Nation has done22 in our, you know, eight states and we have1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 kind of aggregated these up.2 And we asked -- you know, these3 are scientific surveys, calling up people and4 asking them what's the main reason you don't5 buy broadband and really kind of6 rationalizing this. 7 So for younger Americans age 188 to 54, you know, the predominant reason they9 don't subscribe is cost. It's about 3310 percent of them cite that as a reason. 11 For older Americans, age 70 and12 older, the predominant reason they don't13 subscribe is relevance. I mean, it was14 stated, you know, there is a lot of ways that15 they can state relevance. We kind of grouped16 them up into relevance.17 And then kind of in the middle is18 digital literacy or a lack of digital skills.19 You know, also it does vary by age. I think20 this is important, because what it does --21 you know, this is a little bit more about22 senior technology adoption to show that even1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 within the senior community, there are a fair2 -- there is a wide range of demographic3 differences.4 I mean, even -- I'll just point5 out one, which is if all seniors over age6 70-- the Broadband Adoption rate is 307 percent. But of seniors over 70 that live8 alone, the adoption rate is 17 percent.9 These are the individuals that would stand to10 gain the most by being connected to the rest11 of the world and their adoption rate is,12 basically, as low as you see in just about13 any community.14 And I think that's rather15 striking. Again, this is one of the neat16 things about my job is I get to tell the17 survey guys what to survey. And so --18 MR. McELDOWNEY: Did you control19 for cost?20 MR. KOUTSKY: We did. Well,21 not-- in terms of control for cost? These22 are -- this is not -- we do -- I do in1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 another analysis, but not on these slides. I2 have a different analysis that tries to3 separate out using a regression analysis.4 This is really just more of a statement of5 adoption rates.6 That is an interesting paper that7 we are going to be releasing in a couple of8 weeks, that's why I had to double check9 myself, because I might have stolen the wrong10 slide.11 This is barriers. This is a12 slide that really kind of articulates some13 significant barriers among the different14 demographic group, which is low-income15 households with children. And again, I think16 the reason this type of research is important17 is because it tells us what we need to do in18 terms of solutions.19 We cannot have a one-size-fits-20 all. I'm going to skip ahead in the interest21 of time. We need to have solutions that are22 targeted towards bridging the specific gap1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that we are trying to address. A solution2 that is aimed at lowering the cost of3 Broadband Adoption is going to work in some4 communities or in some demographic groups5 potentially, such as low-income households6 with kids, where, frankly, those families7 don't need to be told about the importance8 and relevance of broadband to the future of9 their children.10 I mean, families understand that.11 So these are the families that are piling12 into libraries, you know, constantly now, so13 students can do their homework. So for them,14 cost is the main barrier.15 For a group like senior citizens16 or, you know, other Americans, you know, a17 similarly situated American, such as those18 that live alone or other low-income families19 without children, lack of digital skills,20 lack of relevance are main barriers.21 To overcome this challenge, we22 need to target the solutions based on the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 research results. Then you need to execute2 it and then you need to assess and analyze3 the success stories.4 A couple really things I want to5 leave you with that are initiatives that are6 happening right now, the FCC has proposed to7 spend some portion of the Universal Service8 Fund on digital literacy funding. This is an9 open proceeding right now. You know, I filed10 comments. There are things about the11 proposal before the FCC that I would do12 differently than the way they have done it.13 I'm happy to talk more in detail14 about it, but I do think this is an important15 opening that the Commission has signaled to16 say we think digital literacy or a lack of17 digital skills is a barrier to Broadband18 Adoption and we are proposing to use19 Universal Service Funds to help bridge that20 gap.21 I think, you know, as a group or22 as individual, you know, entities with a1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 consumer focus, I think that is something, a2 proceeding you may want to think about3 getting involved in, either as a CAC or as4 your individual groups, because the FCC5 really could stand to hear a lot of voices6 about the need for digital literacy and7 training in that proceeding.8 You can't really see this because9 of the closed captioning, but another10 initiative the Commission has going on right11 now is a proposal to spend $25 million on a12 Broadband Pilot Project for their low-income13 fund, the Lifeline Fund.14 Those of you that have been15 around the circle for a while know that the16 Lifeline Fund is a targeted Universal Service17 Fund of over $2 billion a year that is18 targeted towards low-income purchase -- low-19 income consumers who purchase VoIP service.20 The FCC launched a genuine -- we21 heard a bit about this this morning, they22 launched a genuine -- a general revamping of1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that program earlier in the year and have2 opened the door to transforming that program3 into a broadband support program.4 These are pilots. This is a5 pilot process that is basically going to take6 the next year. The FCC has solicited7 applications from service providers who are8 the recipients of these funds. Those9 applications are due on July 2nd.10 The idea behind the pilot is to11 come up with measurable data as to what types12 of price points would persuade low-income13 Americans to buy broadband. There is a focus14 on price as a barrier in this proceeding,15 which I know I just said you wouldn't want to16 have a singular focus. They have tried to17 build-in digital literacy and other18 components into this program, but they19 haven't proposed or subsidized that in the20 context of a pilot.21 So there are some problematic22 aspects to the way the FCC has established1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the pilot, but without getting into those2 details, that is something else for this3 group, I think, would be interested in4 monitoring and understanding where -- you5 know, what the Commission does with the6 results of these pilots.7 I'm going to conclude really8 quickly here and just kind of note that, you9 know, honestly, this year is a critical year10 with regard to the FCC's adoption programs11 and initiatives. 12 There has been a lot of talk13 about doing things. There has been a lot of14 ideas floated around. There has been a lot15 of discussion about adoption being an issue16 that the Commission intends to really grab17 hold of. They do deserve credit for the18 Lifeline Pilot Program and for proposing19 digital literacy training as part as USF.20 But this coming year will be the21 year where we will find out whether or not22 those proposals will come to fruition and in1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 what shape and manner they form. You know,2 will we see the targeted -- you know, will we3 see the pilot programs go to areas that need4 it? I skipped over a couple slides, but one5 important fact that came out recently was6 that the Territory of Puerto Rico has a7 Broadband Adoption rate of 31 percent.8 The Territory of Puerto Rico is9 larger than half of the states in the United10 States in terms of population. If the State11 of Delaware -- if we were looking and saw12 that the State of Delaware had a 31 percent13 adoption rate, while New Jersey had, you14 know, 85 percent and Pennsylvania had 7515 percent, you know, honestly, the Chairman of16 the FCC would be driving over to Dover to17 give speeches about solving the Broadband18 Adoption gap in Delaware.19 That's the situation in Puerto20 Rico right now. 31 percent. That has a21 cascading effect on the island. And so, you22 know, we will see if there is -- you know,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I'm hopeful that some of these initiatives2 that have been announced and that some of the3 programs that have been proposed will go to4 places like Puerto Rico in a very targeted5 fashion.6 Where, honestly, you know, in a7 way when you are at 31 percent, it might8 even, you know, be a little bit easier to9 show success because it is clearly a10 significant problem for the Territory and the11 Territory and the Government is really trying12 to press forward and come up with tangible13 solutions.14 You know, and the other point is15 that -- I think Cecilia can talk about this,16 but a lot of the BTOP programs that were17 funded for Broadband Adoption are going to18 start to wind down next year. You know, some19 of the original programs that were given20 funding in 2009 were two or three year21 programs.22 And, you know, what do we do with1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 those success stories? We're going to have2 to figure out which ones were successful and,3 you know, in this next year we are going to4 need to decide whether we are going to wind5 those down or not or whether we are going to6 reinvest in them.7 And with that, I will turn it8 over to the rest of the panel.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. So,10 Elizabeth?11 MS. CROCKER: All right. I'm12 Elizabeth Crocker, the Executive Director of13 the Foundation for Rural Service. And as14 Debra mentioned, we are the philanthropic arm15 of NTCA, which represents rural telecom16 carriers all across the country.17 So we have about 600 rural18 telecom companies that we work with and about19 400 associate members who provide services to20 those folks. And it has really been a very21 interesting couple of years for us as well.22 We really started the foundation as more1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 education-based and working with youth2 primarily and that's definitely changed over3 the past few years and we have really had to4 branch out and now we are in a lot of5 different areas.6 We have done a paper which I7 talked to Debra quite a bit about on Aging in8 Place and the role of broadband. We are9 working on a Smart Agriculture Paper with the10 role of broadband. We are just doing a lot11 of different things and part of the reason we12 are doing them is because our rural13 communities need so much more right now.14 I'm laughing as he is talking, I15 was here two weeks ago with 100 teenagers16 from all over rural America sitting in this17 room listening to four of our Commissioners18 speak. And one of the questions one of the19 Commissioners asked was how many of you, we20 had 16, 17 year-olds, have helped your21 parents and your grandparents learn how to22 get on the Internet and pretty much every kid1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 in the room raised their hand.2 So it's kind of fun to see that3 statistic and then see it in reality as well.4 The interesting thing about the5 foundation, we do a lot of different things.6 We do build stuffers and mailers for our7 telephone companies to educate the rural8 customers, so we are working on Internet9 safety, on-line safety. We just did one on10 cyber-bullying.11 We are going to do a mailer on12 Aging in Place and they can get that13 information out to their customers. We do14 White Papers. And I brought our most recent15 one, because we have been talking about it a16 lot and I would be happy to give you a copy17 if you are interest on Aging in Place and the18 opportunities that are out there.19 We are really trying to encourage20 our telephone companies and our21 telecommunication companies to see the22 potential in these opportunities, because if1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 they can get out in their community and2 provide these services, the community is3 stronger, they have a larger customer base.4 There is a lot of win-wins and this is just5 -- it was a great sort of synergy for us in6 reaching out to new communities.7 I want to talk about a couple of8 different things. The first one is our grant9 program, because we have had some really fun10 success stories with that. So I'm really the11 grassroots person. I'm the one who is out12 there. I'm talking to our members. I'm in13 the rural communities and I see some of the14 stuff in action.15 And I had talked to them a few16 weeks ago about one of our telecom companies17 in Oregon, which I just love this story, but18 it's Clear Creek in Oregon. And I walked19 into their office and said well, why do you20 have all these laptops in the lobby and all21 these computers set up in the lobby? And22 they had some teenagers sitting there working1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 on them and I thought well, that's2 interesting. Is this some kind of work3 program?4 Well, no, they just hire5 teenagers to come in after school and sit in6 the lobby, because they find that so many7 people come in to pay their bills, which I8 know and I have said this before, it's9 unimaginable for us in Washington that people10 actually go in to the company and pay their11 bill in person, we don't do that here.12 But it is in rural communities13 something that happens very regularly. And14 they have the teenagers there surfing the15 Internet and, you know, they have folks well,16 what are you doing and sit down next to them17 and talk to them. And, you know, the next18 thing you know, they are showing them things19 on the Internet.20 It's a very, very basic21 grassroots level, but it's something that is22 kind of fun and that works. 1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 In Toledo Telephone in Washington2 State, one of our board members actually at3 FRS was telling me that he had a jump from 404 percent to 70 percent through his BTOP5 Program. And part of it was really just the6 computer process they offered on-site at7 their telecom. And that is something that I8 think our Rural Telecom Members do amazingly9 well.10 Our customers have -- excuse me,11 our telecommunications companies have amazing12 customer service, phenomenal customer13 service. They have Geek Squads, they have14 folks that are going into people's homes and15 helping them. And the real difference for16 them is if somebody has a problem with their17 broadband, with their connection, with18 anything going on in their home, they see19 those folks in the grocery store.20 The general manager of that21 company sees them at church on Sunday, at the22 grocery store on Monday and those people are1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 complaining to them directly. In a small2 town, there is nowhere to run. So they3 really and truly thrive on good customer4 service and it's very, very important to our5 members.6 One of the other ones I love7 talking about and somebody had mentioned it8 last time or asked me about a mobile computer9 lab and if anyone had done anything with10 that. We had just given a grant in 2011 to11 Lake Pearl Economic Development Authority in12 Minnesota for a mobile computer lab and our13 money kind of finished off their project and14 allowed them to move forward with this.15 So they have a sort of shuttle16 bus that goes to six different communities.17 It is handicap accessible. They have a18 Kindle, an iPad, a digital camera and seven19 computers on the bus and they actually drive20 around to different communities to senior21 centers. They really focus on seniors and22 sort of below-income levels and they really1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 try to get out there and work on adoption on2 a very grassroots level again.3 They sent me a picture of it last4 night. I was calling and asking them some5 questions about the program and how it was6 going and it's just -- it's really, really7 cool to see that in action. They are8 actually serving 30 people a week right now,9 which may not seem like a lot to us here in10 Washington, but for a small rural community,11 that's a lot of folks that they are reaching12 through that program.13 One other thing that we are doing14 at the foundation is we are doing foundations15 of computing and basic digital literacy16 classes. And this one is kind of surprising,17 I think, but when we go to one of NTCA's18 meetings with 3,000 telecom association19 folks, we have a lot of people who are on the20 board of directors of these companies. And21 many of them have been on that board for 20,22 30, 40 years.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 They are not necessarily telecom2 people with a telecom background. Many of3 them are farmers. And so, you know, they4 come in and you would think they might have a5 stronger background, but they don't. So we6 actually offered a class at a recent meeting7 and just had an overwhelming popularity for a8 basic digital literacy class.9 And it is interesting, you know,10 the first thing a lot of them ask is well,11 how do I Skype with my grandkids? So that's12 -- but it's always a great inlet and it's a13 great way to get people interested and14 engaged in it. I have a wonderful slide, I15 wish I had it with me today, of one of my16 friends children at 6 months-old. She has17 her baby in a Bumbo seat Skyping with her18 grandmother across the country in a rural19 community.20 But I love that photo, because it21 really shows what opportunities are out there22 and what a great way to see and get people1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 engaged and interested and maybe they can2 take that next step.3 So, I mean, we have a lot of4 kinds of things going on at the foundation.5 I would be happy to talk to you all about6 them in more detail, but it's just a very7 exciting time for us.8 I kind of let the folks at NTCA9 work on the policy side and the lobbying10 side, that's their gig. So when we start11 getting into infrastructure and costs, I12 defer those questions to them.13 But on the foundation side, we14 are really about investing in our rural15 communities and making sure they have tools16 they need.17 And I will tell you just on a18 side note as well, our 100 teenagers that19 were here last week, two weeks ago, they20 asked some pretty tough questions. I've got21 to say the Commissioners, I think, were a22 little taken back by some of the questions1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 they asked. But it was kind of fun to see2 how engaged they were in this whole sort of3 issue talking about digital divide between4 rural and urban areas, in terms of adoption5 and that sort of thing.6 And so I think we have a really7 great group of young people coming up that8 are asking some of these tough questions and9 hoping to push some of these adoption issues10 forward for their communities as well.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you,12 Elizabeth. Cecilia?13 MS. GARCIA: Thank you, Debra. I14 would like to thank Debra and the Broadband15 Working Group for giving me an opportunity to16 talk about a very interesting gathering that17 the Benton Foundation and Connected Living18 co-hosted. And some of you were actually19 there. Debra was in the audience and Mitsi20 was in the audience, Chris Baker helped me21 out on one of the panels.22 We had decided some time ago,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 based on our involvement in Illinois with the2 Connected Living BTOP Program to look deeper3 into some of the policy solutions that might4 emerge from this major federal investment5 that has been made. And as Tom points out is6 coming to an end very soon in the BTOP7 Sustainable Broadband Adoption and Public8 Computer Center grants that had been made in9 2009.10 And so what we are -- what we11 wanted to do was take a look specifically at,12 what we consider, one of the most vulnerable13 populations and that's low-income elderly.14 And the NTIA had identified about 20 programs15 funded through the BTOP grants that addressed16 issues or actually provided services for17 unserved and under-served communities of low-18 income elderly.19 So what we did on the 22nd was20 tried to take a very close look at one of21 those projects that had built-in evaluation22 from the very beginning of the process. And1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 unfortunately, when BTOP started, there were2 a number of us, including Charles Benton, who3 sat on this CAC for several terms, who made a4 lot of meetings here at the FCC, but5 primarily at NTIA, at the time, asking what6 efforts are going to be made to evaluate this7 investment from the beginning, so that we8 know what approaches work in what9 communities, what solutions can be made mid-10 course, so that at the end of this11 investment, we come away with really strong12 data similar to what Tom was talking about13 about what approaches work and how then to14 use that to inform policy as we move forward15 in bringing the entire nation into good use16 of 21st Century telecommunications17 technology. We need to do that.18 Unfortunately, I think, very few19 projects really had the same kind of20 attention to strong third-party evaluations21 that Connected Living had. We looked at that22 as a real asset for that project.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 We found some very interesting2 findings, based on at least their initial3 evaluation. They will be doing their last4 round of surveys and final evaluation this5 summer. But some of the things that they are6 looking at are -- in addition to the barriers7 that Tom had pointed out, I think what8 emerged from the discussions on May 22nd were9 some additional barriers.10 And one of the -- for this, the11 low-income elderly anxiety is one of those12 intangible barriers that, as a person13 increases in age, becomes even more apparent14 when it comes to technology.15 And again, you have seen this16 through every new iteration of technology.17 It doesn't matter if it is -- it goes from18 the radio to -- all the way through broadband19 access. As we get older, there is a fear20 that if you touch something new, you might21 break it. If you touch the computer, you're22 going to break it.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So what implications does that2 have on how we do sustainable Broadband3 Adoption training? Do we do it in a person's4 home? And I think there is a tension that5 kind of emerged throughout the day on the6 22nd. There were those who were saying we7 really have to have a computer in every8 elderly person's living space, so that they9 are always connected. They always have10 access.11 Then there are others who argued12 equally passionately that no, what is more13 important is where does that person learn14 best? Is it maybe in a senior housing15 project, if there is a computer lab on-site?16 Instead of having a computer in that person's17 living space, if they are in a common area18 where there is access to trainers and access19 to other people and access to, you know, the20 kind of support that they need right then, it21 may be better for them in that learning.22 So in other words, as Tom pointed1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 out, there is no one-size-fits-all solution2 to bringing this most vulnerable population3 on-line.4 We will have -- I don't want to5 talk about the whole day, because we spent6 eight hours at this. It was very7 interesting. We looked at -- we did -- Tony8 Wilhelm actually came in from NTIA and gave9 luncheon remarks.10 And the interesting thing/point11 that he made is that by 2015, there will be12 more people in the United States over the age13 of 60 than under the age of 15. I thought14 that was very compelling. I guess, you know,15 my thinking was just the opposite. That, you16 know, the younger age cohorts were greater in17 number, but the fact is we are an aging18 population.19 And so we have to pay attention20 to this, because low-income seniors are not21 part of the digital economy. And we need to22 make sure that we do whatever we can learn,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 whatever we can from this major federal2 investment. We can't let it go to waste.3 We have to see what can we learn4 from BTOP. How can we adopt those to5 policies that bring everyone on-line in a6 comfortable way, in a way that protects their7 privacy, that helps with the anxiety. 8 There is another finding that we9 heard from a number of speakers who said that10 contrary to popular opinion, issues of11 isolation are actually mitigated when elderly12 begin to get engaged on-line.13 There was this theory that has14 been floating around that the more we engage15 in computers and we're stuck to -- you know,16 instead of face-to-face communications with17 people, that we get more isolated.18 Well, at least anecdotally, the19 Digital Inclusion Initiative that was done by20 Senior Service America in collaboration with21 Generations On-Line is finding just the22 opposite. That as people get more engaged1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 with family communications, with seeing the2 world outside of their living quarters,3 that's actually helping to fight isolation.4 The other thing that we learned5 that I think is very exciting and6 particularly pertinent to any efforts in7 terms of developing a digital literacy core,8 at least two of the projects that we talked9 to on May 22nd reported back that peer10 coaching, seniors who come through a training11 and then turn around and begin to train their12 peers, it's a very successful approach in at13 least two of the projects.14 Intergenerational is also a very15 good approach and the New York OATS Project16 shows a lot of good synergy between young17 people and the elderly. But again, peer-to-18 peer also is very, very significant.19 And I want to stop there, because20 I would like to hear questions from the21 audience around this.22 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you all.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 That was great. We got so much information2 there. Fantastic. So let's do -- Chris, is3 your card up for a question? Excellent.4 Okay. Raise your hand and identify yourself.5 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Actually, you7 weren't on.8 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker. Chris9 Baker?10 CHAIR BERLYN: Hello, over there11 in the booth? Let's try it again.12 MR. BAKER: Mark DeFalco?13 CHAIR BERLYN: I think you are on14 now. I think you are on.15 MR. BAKER: That worked?16 CHAIR BERLYN: I think that17 worked.18 MR. BAKER: Okay. Well, I just19 want to thank the panelists for coming. A20 lot of interesting information. Although, I21 do have to admit, I'm a little disappointed22 with the -- some of the statistics that they1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 didn't include any mention of quality and the2 quality of broadband.3 It's so important. I mean, you4 know, saying you have Broadband Adoption is5 sort of like saying well, you don't have to6 walk. You know, you can take a bike. You7 can take a car. You can fly in an airplane.8 It's not the same thing.9 And it's important to recognize10 that the services that can help older adults11 in many ways require a little more quality12 and speed. So that's point one.13 Point two, I think digital14 literacy is so important. And I agree with15 you, I'm -- I think the Benton Foundation's16 work on this is great.17 But, you know, it's also18 important to look at the technology as well,19 you know, digital literacy is about trying to20 get people to adapt to the technology. I21 think it's also important to have technology22 that works for people. And making these1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 devices easier to use and more intuitive, I2 think, will get rid of a lot of the anxiety3 that older adults have.4 And there just doesn't seem to be5 as much focus on that in the policy circles.6 So --7 MS. CROCKER: I would love to8 jump in on that one if you don't mind.9 MR. BAKER: Sure.10 MS. CROCKER: Because this paper11 that we just put out really addresses that.12 And one thing we are really encouraging our13 telecos to do, a few of them have taken a14 really strong lead on it and we are trying to15 show that as an example and say look at what16 all, you know, the other companies can do.17 And they are really offering18 opportunities for folks to Age in Place with19 remote monitoring and video conferencing. In20 fact, one of our board members from Tennessee21 told me she just went to all five hospitals22 and have out this paper and started talking1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 to them about video conferencing.2 One of the interesting things in3 there was psychiatry, which is one of the4 easiest things to do. And really especially5 for people in rural communities who are so6 far from specialists, that have to drive so7 far to get some place, they might not8 actually do it, but they might go to their9 local hospital that doesn't necessarily have10 a specialist, but get on-line and do a video11 conference.12 So we really are trying to13 provide some of those opportunities and14 encourage -- for us again, it's a win-win.15 The telecos have a broader business base.16 They are investing in their community making17 it stronger and we are really providing18 better services for the folks who live there.19 So we really are trying to do20 that more and more in our membership.21 MR. BAKER: Thanks.22 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes, and I self-1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 edited in my slides, so I would be happy to2 get with you afterwards, because we do have3 -- you know, part of our surveys do include4 quality and technology measurements, too. I5 just didn't throw them up there. But I'm6 happy to share those with you.7 You know, actually, there is an8 interplay here between supply and demand that9 is important to understand. I actually think10 for a lot of particular applications of11 broadband technology would rely upon a12 ubiquity of service networks. Particularly13 of the wireless variety.14 You know, a thing like a remote15 monitoring device, you know, to help and16 elderly diabetic patient, you know, remotely17 monitor, you know, their condition over time,18 does not necessarily require that person to19 be a subscriber to broadband service. 20 What that requires is for21 somebody to invent the device that utilizes22 an LTE wireless network much like buying a1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Kindle device doesn't require you to be a2 Sprint subscriber, even though it uses the3 Sprint Network to get you the book.4 I think we will start to see a5 lot more of those types of devices as 4G6 service gets rolled out. I think we will7 see a lot more device-type uses of broadband8 that will benefit a lot of, particularly,9 elderly, but also educational tools.10 But at the same time, that is a11 very useful thing to have, but also there is12 the dependence on the ubiquity of that. I13 mean, if that's only available to 85 percent14 of the United States, that's now 15 percent,15 that doesn't -- people won't be able to take16 advantage of that device.17 But also, it doesn't necessarily18 engender the growth of technology skills that19 our country needs from its work force. We20 have an interesting job skills gap right now21 where there is a shortage of workers22 qualified to perform technology tools --1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 technology-related jobs. And yet, we have,2 you know, 8 percent unemployment and we have,3 you know, more people out of work now than we4 have had, you know, in most of our -- most of5 the last generation.6 So, you know, there is a skills7 gap that also needs to be addressed, which, I8 think, things like digital literacy training9 and getting computers and devices into homes,10 so that, you know -- and into schools will11 help overcome that skills gap.12 CHAIR BERLYN: I think Mitsi,13 Lise, Mark.14 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera.15 CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry, Ken.16 Ken is in there somewhere. Sorry. Mitsi?17 MS. HERRERA: Sorry. Mitsi18 Herrera, Cable and Broadband Administrator19 from Montgomery County.20 I guess what I am interested in21 is your outcome data and how that is driving22 you to change things? In Montgomery County,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Comcast as part of the NBC Universal merger2 had to launch the Internet Essentials Program3 or at least market it, which is a $10 a month4 service eligible to families who have a child5 at the time it was eligible for free meals6 and now they have expanded it to free and7 reduced meals.8 They have had a year of9 experience with that program. In Montgomery10 County, and so I'm saying this because I --11 well, let me just say it. In Montgomery12 County, there are 47,000 children in public13 schools who are enrolled in free and reduced14 meals. They thought that that might15 translate out into 9,700 eligible households.16 Of that, after a year, they had17 353 families apply. They approved 202. And18 there were 165 that were activated. That is19 after a year of trying to promote this. They20 worked somewhat with schools. They had21 various messages that came out.22 And I'm saying this because we1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 are working with Comcast and we actually had2 a very good meeting. I think I copied3 several people here on an agenda in which we4 brought together people who are working with5 low-income clients to try to see how to6 expand that.7 And the reason I point it out is8 because what we are doing is not working.9 And the reason that -- and the only reason we10 know that it is not working is because we are11 actually honest with ourselves about tracking12 the outcomes of our efforts. And that is13 spurring us to try to figure out new ways for14 those things.15 In particular, with that program,16 we are trying to figure out we have people in17 phone banks who are willing to set-up in low-18 income houses, so that you can come down and19 fill it out. We are trying to figure out a20 plan of could you have them bring the letter21 in which they are eligible for the program22 and Comcast finds a way that they could fax1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the enrollment form right there, so that2 there is somebody available to help you fill3 out the forms.4 And there is lot of different5 moving parts, but getting back to that, I6 point this out not because I want to7 disparage what Comcast is doing, but to say8 that it's hard and we have to think9 differently and figure out how to partner10 with people who have contacts.11 So Tom, thank you very much for12 the slides. Those are great slides. But can13 you focus and talk about what other outcome14 data are you looking at that helps us figure15 out what we need to do differently?16 MR. KOUTSKY: We look at the data17 for our programs. I didn't mention that we18 have two Broadband Adoption Projects that we19 are working on, one in Ohio that is focused20 on, almost exclusively, training. And21 another one that is working with the Boys and22 Girls Clubs in Tennessee that is focusing1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 much more on kind of a mentorship and, you2 know, very targeted towards foster youth3 families.4 But so, you know, we are starting5 our own program, so I can only speak about6 the data. I think Cecilia, you know, does7 make this great point that as these NTIA8 programs start to roll-up, we need to analyze9 that and we need to know facts like that10 about programs like this.11 When you are kind of in an12 experimentation phase, I think you13 shouldn't-- we can be disappointed, you know,14 in things, but I think we shouldn't be too15 surprised if certain approaches fail.16 Honestly, you know, I think that17 it's great that you are working with Comcast18 to work on that project. You know, frankly,19 you know, even though I said that cost was20 the main barrier to entry for families with21 -- low-income families with kids, it was22 still only the main barrier to entry for1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 about 40 percent of those households.2 The other barriers, such as3 literacy, awareness, relevance, were still4 there. So your universe of 9,000 households5 was immediately shrunk to 4,000. You know,6 if your -- if my numbers are right.7 MS. HERRERA: Yes, and the --8 MR. KOUTSKY: But I'm not9 defending the program, because I think, you10 know, myself, I would be not as focused on in11 making sure we only sell this to people that12 we truly know are low-income. Right? And I13 think that you can get yourself caught up in14 that verification and validation and15 paperwork game to your -- I think that16 becomes a problem, because it makes the17 entire program more cumbersome.18 But I do think it is important19 that if you just have a program that is20 basically just focused on cost, right, you21 are saying that I don't care about 60 percent22 of the problem, basically. I'm going to look1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 at only, you know, the 43 percent of those2 households.3 So I think that there is part of4 that going on here, too. But understanding5 it and trying to devise different ways of6 reaching that audience, I think, is an7 important second step.8 MS. HERRERA: Just wait. Are you9 tracking when they come into your programs,10 even the non-cost ones?11 MR. KOUTSKY: Oh, yes.12 MS. HERRERA: You track -- if you13 weren't --14 MR. KOUTSKY: We do.15 MS. HERRERA: -- using it before,16 at the end of the program, are you tracking?17 Do you now sign up and get it?18 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.19 MS. HERRERA: And do you have20 that data?21 MR. KOUTSKY: We do for our22 training programs that we have, which is a1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 little bit easier, because we have in-person2 training, so we know who the person is and we3 give them an account. And we kind of, you4 know, figure out a way to try and reach them5 a year later.6 We have -- that program has been7 in place for a year, so we are just now at8 that point of coming back to people and9 saying are you still on-line? Our initial --10 we do surveys at the conclusion of training11 to say are you likely to buy broadband now?12 Are you more likely to buy broadband than you13 were at the beginning of the training,14 etcetera?15 Those numbers have become very16 positive. But, you know, part of our17 evaluation now is to kind of go back and ask18 those people again, are you still a broadband19 subscriber or did you ever actually buy that20 computer you said you were going to buy?21 We also, by focusing on training,22 tend to end up with more motivated people.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 People walk into a training class for a2 reason. They want to do it because they3 tried to apply for a job a couple of weeks4 ago and they couldn't figure out how to do5 it.6 So there is a little bit of7 selection bias in that group, too, but it is8 reaching people at the point of need, which I9 think is important.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, Cecilia, real11 quick. Cecilia can probably answer that,12 too.13 MS. GARCIA: Yes. I just wanted14 to say that the Connected Living evaluation15 process got the baseline information that you16 are talking about and then did intermediate17 surveys.18 The interesting thing about them,19 it will be this summer, they are going to go20 back to the residents of the senior housing21 in their target area who did not partake of22 anything. And they are going to find -- they1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 want to find out why and see what learnings2 can come from that.3 They are also looking at price4 points. They are asking questions like at5 what level would you be willing to pay to6 continue this after the subsidy is over? So7 we are looking for some very interesting data8 from that this summer.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. We are10 going to move very quickly. Lise, a quick11 question?12 MS. HAMLIN: This is Lise Hamlin13 from Hearing Loss Association. Yes, this is14 quick actually and you may have dealt with15 this, but it was not clear from what you16 presented. 17 I noted that you saw -- you18 tracked how many people with disabilities19 were there. But from my perspective, people20 with hearing loss, and I suspect this is true21 with other people with disabilities, when22 they are -- especially seniors with1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 disabilities have an inability to get access.2 In other words, you are trying to3 go to a training program and you think I4 can't hear what is going on. I can't get5 access to the information. And I think6 people with sentry disabilities and other7 disabilities have the same issue and I would8 just put that to you as, you know, have you9 tracked it?10 Do you want -- if you haven't,11 it's something I think maybe you should12 track.13 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Lise.15 MS. HAMLIN: Yes.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Ken, a quick17 question?18 MR. McELDOWNEY: A quick19 question. Ken McEldowney, Consumer Action.20 I did not hear much talked about in terms of21 dicing and slicing in terms of people, color22 and folks for whom English is not the primary1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 language.2 And I'm wondering what is being3 done both in the survey and also in terms of4 outreach to those populations?5 MS. CROCKER: I'm just going to6 answer really quickly. We don't have a lot7 of time.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh, sorry.9 MS. CROCKER: Sorry. We don't10 have a lot of time. Rick Schadelbauer from11 NTCA did a really nice Broadband Adoption12 piece last year, and I would be happy to get13 a copy to Debra and she can distribute it to14 the group, that tackles some of those15 statistics and some of that information as16 well.17 CHAIR BERLYN: And you have some18 information on that, so does the Joint Center19 for Policy and Economic Studies.20 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes. We have a lot21 of cross-cuts on our website, which is22 connectednation.org/research, and you can1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 actually track -- there is a little button2 where you can click for low-income minority,3 non-native, you know, types, you know.4 MR. McELDOWNEY: Well, I guess5 the second point was what is being done, in6 terms of reaching out in language to those7 populations?8 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.9 MS. GARCIA: Can I just say?10 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.11 MS. GARCIA: Just real quickly,12 one of the projects that we looked at on May13 22nd was a non-BTOP-funded project in Miami.14 And the area -- the Alliance for Aging, the15 Executive Director there decided on his own16 that he needed to find money to do his own17 experiment, mainly because low-income18 communities of color and also non-English19 speaking residents of senior housing had very20 strong issues with getting on-line.21 So that project, I think, has a22 lot of learning from that as well. We will1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 have a report based on our findings available2 on our website probably next week.3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Great. Okay.4 CHAIR BERLYN: I think we are5 going to have to -- I want to get back to6 Deborah and Sharon. Dorothy, if we could7 take your question in writing for our team,8 unless it's real -- is it real quick,9 Dorothy?10 MS. WALT: Well, I just have a11 short comment or I can hold off, either one.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Short?13 PARTICIPANT: The microphone.14 MS. WALT: I have a short comment15 or I can hold either way.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Can we take a17 short comment? A short comment, Dorothy.18 MS. WALT: Yes, thank you, Debra.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure.20 MS. WALT: Dorothy speaking,21 Dorothy Walt. The only comment I wanted to22 make related to seniors is to have an1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 opportunity to receive training on using2 computers through the National Deaf/Blind3 Equipment Distribution Program, if they are4 qualified for that program.5 They get free equipment and free6 training. And the trainer comes to their7 home and trains them. And they also go back8 for follow-up visits and stuff like that. It9 depends on each state's policy when they get10 it set up. I just wanted to make that11 comment.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.13 MS. WALT: Thank you.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you,15 Dorothy. That's great information.16 Okay. Thank you, panel, that was17 really great. Appreciate that. Great data18 points and I know there is more information19 on-line at Connected Nation.20 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.21 CHAIR BERLYN: And also at your22 website?1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. CROCKER: That's frs.org and2 we have paper and we can send you a PDF copy3 or if anybody wants more information.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Thank5 you so much. Appreciate it.6 MS. GARCIA: Thank you.7 MR. KOUTSKY: Thank you.8 (Applause)9 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, that10 was great. Appreciate it. Oh, yes, thank11 you. Elizabeth is going to leave some copies12 of this up here, so you can pick some of13 these Aging in Place and the Role of14 Broadband, if you want to pick one up.15 So we have a little bit of time16 to get back to some questions. We have got17 about 10 minutes, but I do want to get back18 to some questions, if you can put your19 mindset back on our previous topic about the20 Consumer Complaints process.21 So oh, Ed, quick, yes? You're22 up. Saw it first. Oh, and then Stephen, I'm1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 sorry. I saw yours second. Ed? Give it a2 go.3 MR. BARTHOLME: I'm Ed Bartholme4 with Call for Action. We actually partner5 with media outlets around the country to set6 up consumer help hotlines. So we do have7 experience in the intake processes related to8 consumer complaints and tracking and kind of9 keeping an eye on that data.10 I had a couple of thoughts and11 suggestions. We do have a web form that we12 utilize for consumers to make use of. We13 tend to choose to classify and categorize the14 complaints that come in internally. We don't15 allow consumer self-selection for categories.16 We take the information and our17 staff and our volunteers review each18 complaint and then assign it a category. I19 realized that there is a scaling issue and20 you guys probably do deal with significantly21 more than we do, but I think it's important.22 If your goal is consistency and1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 to actually have useful data, consumer self-2 selection can make that harder to achieve.3 You know, they are clouded with -- they are4 upset about what has happened to them. They5 are angry possibly about this. And it could6 be that they pick the completely wrong7 category as to what you guys would have as a8 definition and where that would go and that9 can lead to some pretty heavily skewed10 statistical outcomes.11 Another thing that comes to mind12 is the FTC has a really good set up with the13 Sentinel Program, in that other organizations14 can feed into that, if they choose to. So15 that might be something to look at from a16 back end, is there a way for other17 organizations who take communications-related18 complaints to feed some of their data over to19 you guys, so that you can get a broader20 picture and cover a bigger swath necessarily21 of what comes in to you.22 And just kind of a third tip, one1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 of the things that -- we used to have2 categories and subcategories and we found it3 to be very cumbersome, so we did decide to go4 strictly with kind of broader categories and5 then a key word, as a second step.6 So our system allows for a7 category search and a key word. So you can8 do, for instance, you know, wireless and then9 billing as the key word to pick up all the10 billing-related or, you know, you could use a11 different key word if you chose to.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Awesome. Thanks.13 And hopefully Ed will do something to capture14 all of this in our follow-up as well. So15 Stephen. Then raise your hand, let's capture16 this quickly.17 MR. POCIASK: Yes. I'm Steve18 Pociask with the American Consumer Institute.19 Those are good comments, Ed. 20 Okay. You talked a little bit21 about the tracking, the classification and,22 you know, sort of accounting for this output1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 of complaints. My question is I really2 didn't hear and to what extent do you3 actually account for outcomes, rather than4 just the, you know, output? 5 I'm talking about the actions.6 In many cases, you provide information,7 referrals. Do you account for that? Do you8 track that in cases you have intervention?9 Because to me, that's kind of interesting.10 It's one thing, we have a big accounting for11 the output, but what about the outcomes?12 MS. BOWERS: That's a very good13 question. Thank you. And I appreciate the14 comments from Consumer Action as well.15 Our Consumer Advocacy Mediation16 Specialists deal with consumers one-on-one.17 And each case is assigned to a CAMS. And as18 the CAMS work through that process, they are19 constantly updating that record to show how20 the consumer is being helped.21 There is times that we can't come22 to a resolution that the consumer is1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 satisfied. But we at least document in the2 case what the Commission -- what we have3 done, what the CAMS have done to try to4 assist that person.5 We are one-on-one. The CAMS are6 on the front line dealing with the consumer's7 individual problems. Now, how that sort of8 shakes out to larger numbers that we produce,9 we keep track of disputed amounts, how much10 money we have actually gotten back for the11 consumer in their complaint. But we really12 don't report anything beyond that individual13 complaint that is more internal to us, if14 that answers your question?15 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Yes. 16 MS. MARTINEZ: Mia Martinez with17 the National Asian American Coalition. I18 just wanted to follow-up on Ken's comments19 regarding capturing complaint data by race or20 ethnicity. This would be extremely helpful21 in developing a more effective targeted22 outreach to the minority communities.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And secondly, I checked the App2 Store a couple of minutes ago and I saw that3 there is an FCC App and Mobile Broadband4 test. Perhaps the Bureau can explore5 possibilities of having an app or developing6 an app for submitting complaints.7 I also wanted to note that this8 is one platform that the Federal Trade9 Commission is also looking into at this10 moment for submission of complaints and11 fraud. So perhaps the Bureau could explore12 this option as well.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Very good. And14 one more question from Lise.15 MS. HAMLIN: Lise, hello? Lise16 Hamlin.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Not quite.18 MS. HAMLIN: Almost. Okay.19 We're there.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 21 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin, Hearing22 Loss Association of America. And thank you1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 for all you are doing and all this work. I2 will say when I mentioned to a group of3 different organizations working with people4 with hearing loss, I had a number of people5 get back to me and say yes, we hear all the6 time from consumers who have real difficulty7 dealing with the forms, so they just give up.8 They just won't do it.9 And one of the suggestions that I10 would have is making different levels not11 everything should be -- I know there is12 formal complaints and informal complaints,13 but there may even be a less formal using14 social media, Facebook, even tweeting. 15 I'm sitting in front of my TV and16 my captions are off. I don't want to go to17 my computer and fill out a form that will18 take me half an hour to fill out and then I19 miss whatever I could get. Probably what I20 would have done is change the program,21 because I wouldn't want to have to sit22 through a program with no captions.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 But at least it gives me an2 option. I have had a problem right now, here3 it is, I can't resolve it. What do I do?4 And then you get that information. And I5 think that that's an issue.6 Somebody also mentioned about --7 I mean, they were talking about different8 ways of how you get consumers complaining at9 all, because we know our community doesn't10 complain a lot. And I think part of our11 problem also is that they -- our community12 doesn't know that they can complain or who to13 go to or go to the FCC.14 So even having a real clear15 bullet list that you can complain about. You16 know, I know people come to us or consumer17 organizations say I can't get a hearing aid18 compatible phone. But we never think to go19 to the FCC and say, you know, I'm having20 problems and these are my problems.21 See even having a real clear and22 doing it without literature, doing it on your1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 website or getting us printed material, doing2 various ways, I have heard several times3 today one-size does not fit-all. And I think4 that's a problem for you, but it's also part5 of the solution is going tat it through6 different avenues.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks. Luisa, do8 you have something real quick?9 MS. LANCETTI: Yes, I do.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Sorry, I just saw11 your card.12 MS. LANCETTI: Luisa Lancetti, a13 very quick comment. And that is I think we14 all agree that the FCC's work in this area is15 important maybe even increasingly so and the16 complaint data and the recording of it is17 very powerful as well. So I think when Paul18 first spoke, he talked about how if you don't19 like Dallas, you know, maybe you can go to20 the FCC and complain about it.21 So I think the FCC itself22 recognizes and I think it's also important as1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 we begin to look at trends and collect data2 and numbers, etcetera, that we realize in3 some cases these are not complaints or4 actionable in that sense. And so it is very5 powerful, but it's also important that it be6 looked at with great kind of sophistication7 and care because of the powerfulness of the8 information that is being both collected,9 analyzed and acted on.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Very good,11 excellent. Oh, great. Thank you. We are12 going to have to move on. You will have to13 get your question later, Mitsi.14 MS. HERRERA: That's fine.15 CHAIR BERLYN: But thank you both16 for coming back, for hearing us. We will be17 discussing this again later when we talk18 about our process for responding to their19 questions.20 So thank you both again.21 MS. BRODERSON: Thank you.22 MS. BOWERS: Thank you.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: And have a good2 trip back to Gettysburg.3 MS. BOWERS: Thank you.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.5 (Applause)6 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. I know we7 are starting to get hungry, which means we8 have really good attention now. And can I9 call Robert up to the table?10 MR. ALDERFER: Rob, yes.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob?12 MR. ALDERFER: Rob, yes.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob.14 MR. ALDERFER: Rob is good, yes.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob is good.16 Okay. Rob Alderfer. This is a very17 important topic. As Commissioner Pai18 mentioned, Spectrum is real important to19 consumers. And we are very fortunate to have20 Rob here with us today with the Incentive21 Options Team in the Wireless Telecom Bureau.22 So thank you so much for joining us.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. ALDERFER: Absolutely.2 Thanks for having me.3 CHAIR BERLYN: And I want to give4 you as much time as we need for this topic,5 even though our stomachs will be starting to6 rumble a bit. So thank you so much.7 MR. ALDERFER: Sure. Thanks for8 having me, everyone, I really appreciate the9 opportunity to talk with you today.10 As Debra mentioned, I'm Rob11 Alderfer. I'm the Chief Data Officer in the12 Wireless Bureau here at the FCC. I'm also a13 member of the Incentive Auctions Task Force,14 which consists of staff from across the15 Agency working on this initiative.16 And since my agenda item is17 entitled "What Consumers Need to Know About18 Spectrum," I thought what I would do is just19 talk a little bit about the basics, why the20 FCC is focused on Spectrum and then dive into21 some specifics on Incentive Auctions, if22 that's useful for folks.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Okay. So what consumers need to2 know about Spectrum. Well, the first thing3 they need to know is that they use it4 frequently, whether it is for Wi-Fi in their5 home, their mobile phones, watching6 television with rabbit ears or listening to7 the radio in their cars, that's all Spectrum.8 And Spectrum really serves a9 function for a number of wireless services10 and those services are things that consumers11 are using more and more. Wireless services12 are really proliferating in the economy.13 And actually, according to CTIA,14 we have more wireless connections than there15 are people in the United States, which is a16 pretty astounding phenomenon. That gives you17 a sense of the magnitude of the trend.18 And really one of the key growth19 areas in wireless services has been the20 growth of wireless broadband. In the last21 three years, mobile traffic, as a function of22 wireless broadband growth, has increased over1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 seven times, according to CISCO. And the2 forecast for the future is that that growth3 will continue and even accelerate.4 So if the Commission were to just5 stand pat and do nothing about this trend, it6 would really strain our Spectrum resources.7 And so what that would mean for consumers, I8 think, is higher prices, poorer service and9 lost opportunities, frankly. So that's why10 the Commission is so focused on Spectrum.11 The National Broadband Plan12 outlined a number of strategies to meet13 consumer needs in the area of Spectrum really14 in three broad categories. One is greater15 efficiency, essentially squeezing more16 service out of the Spectrum that we have.17 Sharing Spectrum, so making sure that we18 really have services that are compatible with19 each other doing what they can to share20 Spectrum. And also reallocation of Spectrum21 from legacy uses to new flexible uses to22 allow the market to really meet consumer1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 needs.2 And I'm really going to be3 talking about that third category today,4 reallocation of Spectrum. The Broadband Plan5 outlined a number of potential bands that6 could be candidates for reallocation to meet7 consumer needs. They really stretch both8 from stuff that the FCC manages across to9 what the Commerce Department and NTIA10 manages.11 And one of those was the12 broadcast television band and that's where13 Incentive Auctions comes in. So the14 Broadband Plan recommended that the FCC,15 essentially, use a market-based process,16 known as Incentive Auctions, to, essentially,17 enable part of the Spectrum to be used for18 new wireless services.19 And so that's what I'm going to20 be focusing a little bit more on today.21 And so it's helpful just to start22 with a little bit about what Incentive1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Auctions are. And at their core, they are2 really a market-based means of making3 Spectrum available for new services through a4 market-based process while capturing value5 for the public and for consumers.6 And as I said, they were featured7 in the National Broadband Plan, but it's8 actually something that economists have been9 talking about for some time before that. And10 they were also featured and supported in the11 President's Executive Memorandum on Spectrum12 in November 2010 and were most recently13 authorized by Congress in February of this14 year.15 So the key mechanism in the16 Incentive Auction process is the Commission's17 ability to share financial incentives with18 incumbent license holders, Spectrum license19 holders in return for relinquishing some or20 all of their Spectrum rights back to the21 Commission for repurposing to new services.22 So that's something new. That's something1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that the Commission hasn't done before.2 And really what it does and why3 it's good is it really aligns the interests4 of all interested parties to the benefit of5 meeting consumer needs for Spectrum. So6 incumbent licensees, new licensees, consumers7 and the Government can all benefit through8 this process.9 So I'll talk a little bit about10 what Congress directed us to do in February11 of this year. Actually, the Middle Class Tax12 Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012, Title 613 of that law, had a number of provisions on14 Spectrum, one of which was authorizing the15 Commission to conduct Incentive Auctions.16 That was in ' 6402, for those of you that are17 interested in looking up the bill.18 And, essentially, the key19 provision in 6402 was that authority for the20 Commission to share auction proceeds with21 incumbent licensees in return for their22 relinquishing Spectrum back to the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Commission. So that's general authority and2 that's something that was authorized for a3 number of years for the Commission to use at4 its discretion.5 Then the following section, '6 6403, dealt specifically with the broadcast7 television band. It had several provisions8 for how the Commission should implement9 Incentive Auctions in the context of10 Broadcast Spectrum, including a number of11 protections for over-the-air television12 viewers and broadcasters.13 One of the things that section14 did was outline a number of different ways15 that broadcast television stations could16 relinquish Spectrum back to the FCC.17 So one way, as you might expect,18 is to return a license for a full 6 megahertz19 channel, but that's not the only way.20 Stations might also elect to move from,21 what's called, the UHF band to the VHF band,22 so the high channels to the low channels.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 The high channels being a little more useful2 for wireless broadband. That's another3 option that is available to -- that we expect4 will be available to broadcasters when we get5 to implementation of Incentive Auctions.6 And also, the third option that7 was outlined in the statute was channel8 sharing. So as a function of digital9 broadcast technology, more than one broadcast10 station can actually use a 6 megahertz11 channel. So essentially what that means,12 especially those two latter options, they are13 available to broadcasters to continue their14 over-the-air broadcast operations while15 relinquishing some Spectrum back to the FCC16 in return for financial incentives.17 So in that regard, we really18 think there are win-win opportunities here19 that will result not just in repurposing20 Spectrum for wireless services, but also21 strengthening the broadcast sector and22 providing new business options to1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 broadcasters.2 And in the same regard, if you3 think about relinquishing a full 6 megahertz4 channel, there are many station groups out5 there that may wish to sort of consolidate6 their operations and strengthen their7 business going forward. And this is another8 way to do that through the Incentive Auction.9 So a couple of other things that '10 6403 did in addition to providing these11 options for broadcasters, it, essentially,12 made clear that stations won't be forced to13 relinquish their rights. So this is a14 voluntary process. Stations will have the15 discretion to decide which options works best16 for them and set the price at which they want17 to accept those options.18 And if they don't want to19 participate, they don't have to. 20 Now, we do expect that there will21 be a realignment of the band as part of this22 process as we move a portion of the Broadcast1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Television Spectrum to wireless services.2 The band will need to be realigned to make3 the Spectrum useful for wireless services.4 And so, essentially, what that5 will mean is a new channel plan for6 television stations. And there may be some7 costs involved in that for broadcast stations8 and under the law, those costs would be9 covered as part of the auction proceeds would10 be used to pay for that.11 And one important thing to keep12 in mind here through this repacking process13 is that it's something that is a little bit14 different from the Digital Television15 Transition, in that consumers are already16 digital-ready.17 So consumers have set-top boxes18 and it's -- we don't expect that all stations19 will be affected by the repacking process, so20 it's going to be more limited in scope, we21 think. And it will be a simple matter, we22 think, of probably rescanning boxes for over-1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the-air viewers that may be affected by the2 repacking. And we don't expect that to e the3 full population of over-the-air viewers.4 And, of course, television5 viewers that subscribe to cable, satellite or6 watch TV over the Internet won't be affected7 at all.8 So a little bit on what we have9 done to date at the staff level to implement10 Incentive Auctions. Perhaps one of the most11 fundamental things we have done is get the12 people in place to do the work, and that's13 the Incentive Auctions' Task Force.14 You may know Gary Epstein, who is15 the Chair of the Task Force, he sends his16 regrets that he couldn't be here today, but17 he really does view this as a key consumer18 initiative for the Commission. And he has19 really compiled a team from across the Agency20 to work on this issue.21 And we have also -- to help us in22 this endeavor, retained a number of economic1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 experts that specialize in auction design.2 Because this is a new novel program, a lot of3 different facets to it, we want to make sure4 we are getting the best advice from the best5 people out there.6 And so we have a team of7 economists, that I would be remiss if I8 didn't mention they are prize-winning9 economists, that are at Stanford and10 University of Maryland and they are advising11 the Commission on auction design and the12 economic aspects of this.13 Another thing the Commission has14 done recently back in the April meeting, the15 Commission adopted an order that lays the16 regulatory framework, some of the groundwork17 for channel sharing. And, essentially, what18 it did was, you know, adopt some basic19 parameters for channel sharing that should20 compliment the Incentive Auction when we move21 to implement that. It doesn't really22 prejudge how channel sharing would work1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 within the context of Incentive Auctions, but2 just sort of sets the framework for it.3 Then there was actually a channel4 sharing workshop in May, last month, two5 months ago, at this point, in which we6 gathered the industry together to talk about7 some of the practical aspects of channel8 sharing. And we will have more workshops and9 development. We really do view public10 participation and outreach as a key piece of11 this initiative.12 And as we move forward, we are13 really in the early stages right now. We are14 in what I would call sort of the technical15 stage, in which we are really focusing on the16 sort of economic aspects and the engineering17 aspects of this initiative and making sure18 that we have our experts thinking about the19 key issues. 20 And that will inform a lot of the21 policy that will be coming through the22 rulemaking process.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And as I said, we view outreach2 as a key component of this. And so it's3 certainly a timely discussion for the4 Consumer Advisory Committee and we certainly5 look forward to your input.6 I can talk more about the7 different piece parts of Incentive Auctions,8 if folks are interested in hearing about9 that?10 But just a few things to keep in11 mind that I would like to really kind of12 reiterate. First, the amount of Spectrum13 that is repurposed out of the television14 bands for new services will be a function of15 the voluntary participation of broadcasters.16 And it really -- and it being a17 market-based process, we view it as being a18 fairly consumer-friendly way to repurpose19 Spectrum, inasmuch as it's, essentially,20 market actors making the decision on Spectrum21 repurposing and they should be certainly22 responsive to their customers.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 As I said, there are several2 options for broadcasters to relinquish3 Spectrum. Returning the full 6 megahertz4 channel sharing and moving from a UHF channel5 to a VHF channel. These will all be teed up6 for the Commission to consider in the7 rulemaking later this year. But that's what8 the statute envisioned.9 The statute also envisions that10 there is no involuntary relinquishment of11 Spectrum. And stations that don't12 participate and don't want to relinquish13 Spectrum will be compensated for any costs14 involved in the repacking and realignment15 process that will come as part of the16 Incentive Auctions.17 And really, we think that this18 whole initiative is a win-win for consumers19 of both the wireless and broadcast sectors.20 And so, as I said, we are very early on in21 the process and we would like to get your22 input on what you think it would take to make1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 this initiative a success.2 And I can leave it there.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you so much,4 Rob. We do have time for some questions. I5 see Ann's card up. Go ahead, Ann.6 MS. BOBECK: Hi, I'm Ann Bobeck7 from the National Association of8 Broadcasters. I just wanted to say thank9 you, Rob. Thank you to Chairman Genachowski10 and his team. I know that this has been a11 tremendous undertaking and the number of12 staff involved to ensure that the Incentive13 Auctions run smoothly.14 And that we very much look15 forward to the upcoming June 25th Workshop on16 TV Broadcaster, the Fund Workshop. I know17 that my boss, Jane Mago, is looking forward18 to participating in that was well. And I19 think those are very helpful, you know, they20 are broadcast over the web for all of the --21 for all of us and members of the CAC to22 participate in as viewers and as consumers as1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 well.2 So I encourage all of us to tune3 in to the upcoming workshops. I know that4 the Commission has a series of workshops5 throughout the summer and the fall and I6 think that would help us kind of guide and7 help inform from a consumer perspective the8 challenges associated with the Spectrum9 allocation as it affects viewers of10 television.11 So thank you very much for12 inviting consumer participation and we look13 forward to a robust discussion, particularly14 in the fall as the rulemaking comes out.15 MR. ALDERFER: Thanks for the16 plug on the workshops.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone else18 have a question?19 MR. UMANSKY: Just very, very20 brief.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry?22 MR. UMANSKY: Hi, I'm Barry1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Umansky with the Digital Policy Institute and2 I Chair the meet -- the working group. And3 certainly this is -- the issues you talked4 about a moment ago are certainly core5 interest of our immediate working group. We6 have addressed them in recommendations. And7 I think, listening to your discussion, we are8 pretty much all on the same page and we hope9 it's a very successful process and we will10 certainly be tuning in. Thank you.11 MR. ALDERFER: Great. Thank you.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott? Raise your13 hand, Scott, so they can see you back there.14 MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann15 with CTIA. I just wanted to add my thanks as16 well. We are really appreciative. Can you17 hear me yet?18 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, I can hear on19 that one.20 MR. BERGMANN: Okay. Good. I21 just want to add my word of thanks as well to22 -- for all the work that the FCC has done to1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 try to develop this process of an Incentive2 Auction, recognizing the need to meet rising3 consumer demand for wireless services. And4 there is a lot of, you know, good record that5 the FCC has helped develop about the consumer6 benefits of mobile broadband services.7 So we are looking forward to8 working with you all as well, too, and it is9 a very technical exercise that the FCC is10 about to go through. So sort of what the11 Consumer Advisory Committee had on, we12 appreciate your focus on how consumers stand13 to benefit from going through this process.14 So thanks for that, Rob.15 MR. ALDERFER: Okay. Thanks,16 Scott.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob, I'm going to18 ask this question just so that everybody can19 get a feel for this. And that's the timing20 question.21 So when does the FCC anticipate22 the actual completion of the repacking1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 process, so that the auctions would actually2 take place on the other end?3 MR. ALDERFER: So the short4 answer is we don't know. But I'll give you5 the longer answer, too. So what we are6 working toward now, what the Chairman has7 said, is that we would like to have a Notice8 of Proposed Rulemaking developed or a series9 of them in the fall of this year.10 That will layout some of the11 staff's thinking and the Commission's12 thinking on this process. And from there, it13 becomes a function that really kicks off the14 public engagement process.15 And so it's a little bit hard to16 predict and I certainly wouldn't want to17 prejudge what we would hear from people18 through that process. I will say that we do19 view the need for Spectrum as an urgent one20 and so we are keeping that in mind.21 But in terms of how it is all22 going to come together, I think we are really1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 going to need everyone's input through the2 rulemaking process to know that.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right.4 Well, thank you very much. We greatly5 appreciate your coming down here.6 MR. ALDERFER: Okay. Thanks.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.8 MR. ALDERFER: Thank you.9 (Applause)10 CHAIR BERLYN: Lunch is served11 and we will reconvene at about 1:00. We did12 it. We are back on schedule.13 (Whereupon, the meeting was14 recessed at 12:25 p.m. to reconvene at 1:1115 p.m. this same day.)161718192021221 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 123456789101 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 A-F-T-E-R-N-O-O-N S-E-S-S-I-O-N2 1:11 p.m.3 CHAIR BERLYN: So this next4 session is brought to you by Ed Bartholme and5 myself. We have a topic on your agenda, as6 you see, to have a discussion about the FCC's7 website. And we did want to get some FCC8 staff to talk with us about this topic and we9 still hope to do that.10 The scheduling didn't work out11 for that, at this particular meeting, but12 hopefully in the future we will do that.13 But we do know that it would be14 helpful for the FCC staff to perhaps have15 some questions in advance that we might have16 about the FCC website.17 Now, just as some background, the18 Consumer Working Group did discuss the FCC's19 website a couple of times at various working20 group meetings and we decided that it would21 be a good topic to present to the full CAC22 for discussion.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So I'm going to turn it over to2 Ed and we are going to have the capability to3 show the website on the screen and go through4 it with all of you. And the idea here is to5 talk about the FCC's website as a useful6 instrument for general consuming public as7 well as for those of us who use the FCC8 website on a regular basis, but also as9 representatives of the consumer populations10 that we work with.11 So, Ed, I'll turn it over to you.12 MR. BARTHOLME: So I --13 CHAIR BERLYN: And there we go.14 MR. BARTHOLME: We talked about15 this a little bit at one of the previous16 meetings and there didn't seem to be a lack17 of interest from anyone in the room, as it18 pertains to the website, so we thought it19 would be a good idea to kind of all share20 some thoughts and insight on it. Like Debbie21 said, our goal was to have a speaker, but it22 didn't coincide for this meeting.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And we know that our time is2 short, so to speak, because we have one3 meeting left. So we were hoping to get4 together a list of advance questions to get5 that over to someone in the Commission who6 could then address us on those topics.7 So if anybody wants to start by8 firing off some suggestions or things that9 you see or have thought about or have10 questions, I know one of the big things that11 we initially looked at is we all use the12 FCC's website in probably a somewhat13 different capacity than what we would imagine14 the typical consumer going to the FCC's15 website does.16 We look specifically for Notices17 of Rulemaking and different dockets and18 different things like that. We have also19 heard anecdotally that most of the people in20 the room, and I won't make you raise your21 hand, go to the website and first click on22 where is the old website and how do I get1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 there, because that's how I know how to get2 around things. And that has been left very3 prominently displayed on the new website.4 So knowing all of that about5 ourselves, we were wondering how do we6 translate that to what your typical consumer7 is actually going here and looking to find8 and do they find it more beneficial than some9 of us who are used to the old familiar might10 find it?11 So that's kind of the direction12 where the dialogue started. And then as we13 -- we had a call about this. As we started14 to kind of drill down, we highlighted some15 things. I want to open it up to you guys16 first and then we can -- I'll share some of17 the things that we saw as well to kind of18 prod along the conversation, if there is a19 lull.20 So I turn it over to you. I'll21 take copious notes and make sure that22 everybody sees this and get a copy. Right,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 yes, also the reporter. The court reporter,2 yes.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Can we flash the4 website back up on the screen? There. There5 we go.6 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 7 CHAIR BERLYN: Ann?8 MR. BARTHOLME: Ann, you had --9 MS. BOBECK: Hi, it's Ann Bobeck10 from NAB. One of the things that I always11 thought would be the simplest button on the12 home page is if there was a consumer button13 for consumers or for the public, just in14 general.15 I know that as a petitioner, we16 are fairly well-versed in both the old and17 slowly migrating to the new FCC's website.18 But if I were a consumer, even today coming19 to the new FCC's website, there is a lot of20 information, but it's hard, it's difficult to21 navigate.22 And if there were just a1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 consumer's click here button and then sort of2 had a consumer generated sort of home page, I3 think, you know, there is take action at the4 top, but that's kind of buried at the top.5 It's sort of, you know, difficult. There is6 a lot of quick links. There is bureaus. But7 as a consumer, I might not know who those8 bureaus are or really what they do.9 But I think that that might just10 be a starting point.11 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. So kind of12 along the lines of the top navigation bar,13 stick one up there that just says consumer,14 so that that way --15 MS. BOBECK: Yes.16 MR. BARTHOLME: -- it's readily17 and exactly where it --18 MS. BOBECK: Yes, for consumers,19 yes.20 MR. BARTHOLME: Yes.21 MS. BOBECK: I'm just trying to22 think if I were visiting the FCC for the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 first time, I would have no idea what all2 this information meant.3 MR. BARTHOLME: Sure.4 MS. BOBECK: For the average5 bear.6 MR. BARTHOLME: Definitely.7 Anyone else have any opening shots or8 questions?9 MS. HAMLIN: Yes.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Lise Hamlin?11 MS. HAMLIN: Am I coming through?12 CHAIR BERLYN: Not quite yet.13 MS. HAMLIN: Hello?14 CHAIR BERLYN: There you go.15 MS. HAMLIN: There I am. Okay.16 One of the things that -- recently, I was17 putting together a PowerPoint for a18 presentation, so I wasn't specifically19 looking for proceedings. I was looking like20 somebody who might be searching for21 information.22 And what I found was if I went1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 out of the site and Googled what I wanted,2 FCC and then whatever the topic was, it was3 much easier to find information than if I4 went into the site and went to the search5 engine on the site. I couldn't find it.6 And you are right about the7 links, too. Okay, I'll get to a page, let's8 talk about captioning and then it will say9 okay, other things to talk about. They would10 never take me where I wanted to go.11 So I'm not the tech person here,12 but it sounds like to me there is a search13 engine problem as well as -- two problems.14 Organizational problem and maybe the consumer15 page might be a way to get around that. But16 there is also how do I find this? It's17 really difficult to find what you are looking18 for.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Stephanie?20 MR. BARTHOLME: Stephanie?21 MS. PODEY: Stephanie Podey from22 NCTA. It seems like they tried to organize1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 it using this encyclopedia concept and I've2 just found that a lot of the information I'm3 looking for winds up being there, which I4 find through a Google search. And it's just5 if it's confusing for us, I'm sure it's6 terrible for consumers.7 MR. BARTHOLME: Dorothy, did8 you--9 MS. WALT: Dorothy speaking. It10 has been a long time since I looked at the11 webpage. I don't remember if this was on12 there or not. If it isn't, I would suggest13 you add to it.14 Do you have a person assigning15 the information, rather than -- in other16 words, some deaf people whose first language17 is ASL and they would prefer to read18 information through an ASL interpreter. So19 I'm wondering if that's on the website? If20 not, you might want to add that. Thank you.21 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin again.22 The other thing that I remember finding on1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 this is that some pages were easily printable2 and other pages were not. And it would be --3 most of the information you want to be able4 to download easily and print out. So I would5 suggest that that be consistent.6 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 7 CHAIR BERLYN: Can I just pose a8 general question for anyone in the room?9 Does anyone in the room have any firsthand10 knowledge about any consumer use of the11 website? Does anyone know about consumers12 using this website?13 PARTICIPANT: No.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 15 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,16 Montgomery County. I have a Consumer17 Advisory Commission and, by and large, the18 report has been that they really don't know19 where to find anything on the site.20 And one thing that used to21 happen, the Media Bureau used to have a22 telephone directory that was issue-based. So1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 if this was my issue, this is the person to2 call or who is in charge. So that's lacking3 on this one. It takes -- before it was one4 step to search people, if you knew who to5 search for.6 Now, it's a couple steps. But7 more importantly, I don't know who is8 handling what. And I say even for9 practitioners that's true, because there is a10 lot of change-over, people who used to be11 there, so who is the new person who handles12 that?13 The other thing overall I would14 say is that it's very difficult to find any15 of the reports, which I find ironic, because16 I feel like the FCC spends a lot of time17 issuing reports. 18 Before, they used to have a way19 in which the reports and the ones that they20 have annually were kind of listed and then it21 would list, you know, whatever the most22 current year was along with all the back1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 ones. And that has just kind of disappeared2 into places. In a lot of the information3 that they -- I was just looking through while4 we were talking, so like, for example, the5 Media Bureau, if you go on one section and it6 asks for the open proceeding, it will list7 that there is an open proceeding about closed8 captioning.9 But if I go to the subject and10 look at closed captioning, it provides some11 kind of evergreen information, but no link to12 the fact that there is any active proceeding13 in this area.14 So if I'm a consumer, I can't go15 in by the subject, which is the thing I'm16 most likely to be familiar with, and look to17 find out what is the FCC doing right now on18 closed captioning.19 MR. BARTHOLME: Ann?20 MS. BOBECK: Ann Bobeck, NAB21 again. Mitsi, if you would go to the22 transition, the old FCC website, you go to1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the Media Bureau, you can still see the2 subject matter expert list. So there is the3 --4 MS. HAMLIN: I can't hear you.5 MS. BOBECK: The subject matter6 expert list for the Media Bureau still is in7 the FCC's website. It's just easier to8 access through the old -- the transition9 website.10 MS. HAMLIN: Right. But my --11 what my concern is I feel like at some point,12 they are going to stop supporting the old13 website.14 MS. BOBECK: Right.15 MS. HAMLIN: I mean, it depends16 how long we keep complaining, but --17 CHAIR BERLYN: That's one of the18 questions we don't have the answer to.19 MS. BOBECK: Right.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Is how long that21 transition button will still be there.22 MS. HERRERA: Right. What would1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 be also beneficial, I think, that we make as2 a recommendation or request is that that3 would be certainly something that would be4 helpful in all the bureaus to have a subject5 matter expert list.6 So if you had a question on CGB,7 who is the contact person that I would need8 to be to -- to go to if I have a complaint?9 Then I need to go to the Enforcement Bureau,10 who? Which question should I direct to what11 call centers? There could be some12 troubleshooting or experts that they could13 list.14 I think that that would be15 helpful. Certainly, you know, the 8th Floor16 Advisors are fairly easy to find, because17 they are on the home page and the18 Commissioners. But I think that's something19 that they could expand. It's just the Media20 Bureau, I think, was the first and being the21 most established bureaus.22 But that could be helpful beyond1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 one bureau.2 MR. BARTHOLME: Barry?3 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, just three4 quick things. I want to agree with Ann. I5 think the Media Bureau is a good model for6 how to do this right to link experts with7 topics and so forth.8 Also, I have been trying to use a9 variety of other agencies website, some10 federal some state, and by comparison, I11 think the FCC has done a pretty darn good12 job. I'll have to admit though that the13 instant after I go to fcc.gov, I do click the14 old one. 15 And the one beef I have with the16 old one, it's a new beef, when you looked at17 the old site, the upper left has a search18 engine, search the FCC. You fill in your key19 word hit it and it goes to another search the20 FCC and you've got to fill it in again. I'm21 sure that can be cured.22 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. UMANSKY: End of comment.2 MR. BARTHOLME: So a couple other3 things that we had down to bring up and4 discuss were, you know, how long is the old5 site going to be there as a transition or is6 it going to somehow kind of be buried back7 into a permanent fixture that you just have8 to do a couple hoops to jump through to9 access it? You know, will it always say10 transition.fcc.gov?11 Some other concerns that we had12 briefly discussed are kind of the usability13 aspect of the website, not just from a I'm14 looking for a specific piece of information15 and it's hard to find, but when I show up and16 it is dark blue on black text for different17 -- you know, like a really good one, I feel18 like if you could show the computer screen on19 the screen?20 Up here in the top right corner,21 it has got display options in dark blue on22 black. And for somebody who actually would1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 like to change the appearance, I don't think2 they are ever going to stumble upon the3 display options.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Hum.5 MR. BARTHOLME: One of the things6 that came up in our call was also the7 accessibility of the site in different8 languages. You know, the FCC issues the9 ability to broadcast in other languages in10 our country. And, obviously, consumers in11 our country interact with the FCC sometimes12 in other languages.13 There is a little flag up in the14 top right corner. Most of us didn't even15 realize that there was any way to get the16 site into another language until Art Neill17 pointed out that there is, in fact, a flag in18 the corner and that if you do click on that19 flag-- maybe I'm not clicking correctly here.20 Anyway, if you do click on the21 flag, it does give you the ability to bring22 it up in Spanish. As soon as you get it to1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 come up in Spanish, it basically looks like2 the old website and it's not a translation of3 the existing website. It's more of a here is4 a list of all the Spanish resources that we5 have, so that you can make use of them.6 And, obviously, we would like to7 see it be that you would actually translate8 the site, so that the Spanish-speaking user9 or people in another language had the same10 experience and the same interaction, not just11 a list of here is what we have in Spanish12 that you can make use of potentially. Ken?13 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes, I do not14 know of any website that uses a flag to15 indicate other languages. I mean, that is16 just -- I mean, much less something that is17 an 1/8 of an inch high, I'm not even sure18 what flag it is. I mean, do you have any19 idea what flag it is?20 MR. BARTHOLME: It is the21 American Flag that is there.22 MR. McELDOWNEY: But I mean, so1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that --2 MR. BARTHOLME: But that --3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Would anyone,4 would any consumer who is saying oh, I want5 something in Chinese, I'm going to click on6 the American Flag? I mean, it's just -- give7 me a break.8 MR. BARTHOLME: No. I am9 guessing that it's actually a more common10 European model where you click on the Great11 Britain flag or the Spain flag to get the --12 CHAIR BERLYN: Right, right.13 MR. McELDOWNEY: Well, no. I14 mean, Microsoft does this and it is15 culturally insulting, because for Spanish,16 they put the flag of Spain.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.18 MR. McELDOWNEY: Which really19 goes over big in Mexico I'm sure.20 MR. BARTHOLME: No, no, and21 that's what I'm saying. That's where I think22 it comes from. I don't necessarily know that1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that translates the best for use in this2 environment.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Right.4 MR. BARTHOLME: Julie?5 MR. McELDOWNEY: On the other6 hand, the flag was probably made in China.7 Sorry.8 MS. KEARNEY: It's Julie Kearney9 from CEA. With all due respect, I think we10 are really nit-picking here. And I think in11 terms of translation, which I think there can12 be some value, so for those of us13 practitioners, many of us in the room, we14 really -- a translation of regulations could15 be potentially perilous, I think, to a lot of16 people.17 So I think we need to just be18 careful getting as far down into the weeds.19 I think the FCC has done a fabulous job with20 the site. I will admit I do find the site21 difficult to navigate, but, you know, I have22 my personal preferences. And actually, I try1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 not to go back to the old site. I try to2 like, you know, hang in there, so I can get3 used to the new site.4 But, you know, I just warn5 against getting too nit-picky here.6 MR. BARTHOLME: If I could just7 respond to that, Julie. I don't think that8 our intent or our goal is to, obviously, be9 excessively nit-picky. I think that part of10 what we were presented with when the11 discussion about the new website first came12 about was, this is a tool for outreach.13 MS. KEARNEY: Right.14 MR. BARTHOLME: This is a way for15 the Commission --16 MS. KEARNEY: Right.17 MR. BARTHOLME: -- to interact18 with the public.19 MS. KEARNEY: Um-hum.20 MR. BARTHOLME: And I think that21 the Commission has to realize that when it22 comes to having an interface in another1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 language, it has to be the same or the people2 who communicate in that language are going to3 know that the same attention isn't being4 given to them as a constituent as someone who5 has English as their primary language.6 So I realize that the7 sensibilities and the practicality of8 translating a rulemaking procedure are9 probably not there --10 MS. KEARNEY: Yes.11 MR. BARTHOLME: -- as a landing12 page where it is instructing you with how to13 interact with the FCC or how to file your14 complaint with the FCC.15 Those things should be made16 accessible to everyone. And I think that is17 the perspective that we are discussing.18 MS. KEARNEY: Okay. 19 MR. BARTHOLME: The language20 issue from, not necessarily, you know, can21 you do every single thing and make sure that22 it is coming across that way.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. KEARNEY: Yes.2 MR. BARTHOLME: Mitsi?3 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera. It4 may be helpful if somebody explained or put5 in writing what the logic is behind the site6 reorganization. So, you know, is the idea7 that we group things by topic? And so if you8 are looking for it, you search by topic and9 then you find something.10 But there is, obviously, some11 scheme they picked and it's just not really12 apparent. And if you knew that, then maybe13 it would make it easier to navigate.14 It's also -- you know, like I15 looked and you click on -- there used to be16 -- when we first had our first meeting, there17 was some portion of this site in which people18 could vote on things they liked or things19 they wanted to see and that just sort of has20 disappeared. So I don't know if -- what21 happened there.22 And then it also seems like there1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 is a lot of stuff that is not organized by2 subject or topic. It's just kind of thrown3 out there. So it's either just4 chronologically what we had, the most current5 thing and it relies on a lot of searching.6 And I'm concerned that if you don't know the7 right search term, it won't come up.8 So if you just made it -- if you9 made it a little easier like if it is an10 encyclopedia and I open up on this topic,11 here is a list of the six things in that12 topic, as well as a search feature.13 MR. BARTHOLME: Yes. Yes, and I14 am kind of jumping off from that point. I15 think that we can all agree, at least I would16 hope we all agree, that visually it's a much17 more interesting website to visit.18 The question is how do we get the19 usability and the consumer interaction to the20 point where it still has the same21 accessibility of information and organization22 and those sorts of things? Does anybody else1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 have any comments, questions?2 CHAIR BERLYN: And I think we3 certainly can continue to take questions and4 thoughts that you have. The idea here is to5 develop some questions and ideas that we can6 pass on to the website folks here and7 continue the dialogue.8 So this has been really helpful.9 Thank you all. This is great. So thanks and10 thanks, Ed, for walking us through some of11 this on the screen.12 Very good. Okay. So we just13 need two minutes for setup and then we will14 start our next presentation.15 So our next topic is one that I16 believe either at our last meeting or in a17 working group, was one that CAC Members18 wanted to have addressed at our next meeting.19 And so we -- Scott was able to have James20 Bird, Senior Attorney, join us with the21 Office of General Counsel, Head of22 Transactions Team, to share with us the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 "After the Merger," that's the topic here of2 our discussion, to talk about sort of what3 happens after a merger.4 But in this case, so you're going5 to talk about some specific site, I believe,6 of a particular merger. And what happens to7 some of the conditions and that's, I know, of8 interest to many folks around the room.9 So thank you very much for coming10 today and joining us. Thank you.11 MR. BIRD: Yes, thank you.12 Actually, I'm planning to give a more general13 -- I will raise examples from particular14 mergers.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Good.16 MR. BIRD: But I think it is --17 as an overall view, it's important to18 understand. First, thank you very much for19 inviting me and giving me an opportunity to20 share with you some ideas about how we21 approach what happens after a merger has been22 approved by the FCC.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 What I would like to do in broad2 outline, first, as a disclaimer, I'm speaking3 here -- these are my personal views. These4 have not been approved by the Commission.5 But I do have about 12 years experience6 working on merger reviews and their aftermath7 at the Agency.8 What I would like to cover is,9 first, a brief explanation of the FCC's role10 in reviewing merger applications here and, in11 particular, the standard that we apply and12 the role of conditions that come out of that13 review. And then look at some of the14 different types of merger conditions, because15 that affects how they can be enforced and16 monitored.17 And then look at the ways the18 conditions are enforced. And then also look19 at the way the compliance with conditions as20 monitored and also the effectiveness of the21 conditions as monitored. And finally end up22 with the question of how do you modify1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 existing merger conditions?2 So first, the FCC's authority to3 review applications for -- that relate to4 mergers -- you want that a little closer?5 Okay. The FCC's authority in6 most -- the one we rely on primarily is our7 authority to review transfers of licenses,8 transfers and assignments of licenses or9 authorizations that are granted by the10 Agency.11 And the standard of review that12 we apply is is it in the public interest?13 This is under ' 214 in Title 2 of the Act,14 and ' 310(d) in Title 3.15 The public interest standard has16 a couple components. A very important one is17 does it comply with the Act itself and the18 rules that are issued under the Act?19 And if it passes that hurdle,20 then the second thing we look at is what are21 the potential benefits that could arise from22 this combination, this transfer? And then we1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 look at what are the potential harms that2 might arise and we balance the two. And if3 the benefits outweigh the harms, then we4 approve the transfer.5 There are three possible outcomes6 generally. One, we can approve it. Two, we7 can approve it with conditions. And three,8 if we can't do either of those, then we9 designate it for an administrative hearing10 before an Administrative Law Judge where all11 the facts will be subject to courtroom trial-12 type procedures.13 So the role of merger conditions14 in this process is generally twofold. One is15 a merger condition will help mitigate16 potential harms. And the other is it can17 substantiate claimed benefits.18 So that if we get past the first19 stage, it complies with the statute and20 rules. We are in the second stage. We are21 balancing harms and benefits. The merger22 condition can affect that balance. You know,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 we say if we-- without this condition, we2 might not approve it, but if we can mitigate3 the harms with conditions or substantiate4 benefits, then it will be allowed. So those5 are the roles that the conditions play. It's6 fairly important in the Commission's7 consideration.8 There are two general types of9 merger conditions. One are structural10 conditions. That's like these are often11 applied in a horizontal merger where you will12 have two companies that are coming together13 and decreasing, potentially decreasing, the14 level of competition in a market.15 One of the things that can be16 done is you can look over all the markets17 these companies are involved with. What we18 took as an example, when Verizon purchased19 AllTel, Verizon Wireless purchased AllTel,20 that was two big wireless companies and in21 some parts of the country that was fine.22 There was not much overlap. In other parts1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 there was a lot of overlap.2 And so a structural change is3 nice in many ways. A one time change. You4 say divest one or the other where you5 overlap. So we preserve the existing level6 of competition.7 The other kind of a condition is8 a behavioral or conduct condition where the9 applicants are told to do something. This10 creates an obligation on them that they did11 not have before that will either mitigate a12 harm or affirm a benefit.13 And here, there is a much greater14 variety. It's not just divesting. It can be15 we would like you to do the following things.16 We would like you to provide the following17 services to confirm that you are going to do18 a benefit.19 For instance, when Comcast and20 NBCU came before us, that was not a21 horizontal merger so much as a vertical one.22 And so divestiture in vertical mergers where1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 you are -- where someone up the supply chain2 is merging with someone below, the3 divestiture doesn't work so well. And so you4 rely more on the conduct conditions.5 And in that one, they said well,6 this will result in many benefits. We will7 have -- we will be able to consolidate local8 programming and have better local9 programming. We said well, that's nice, but10 in order to count as a benefit in our merger11 review, it has to meet certain criteria.12 It has to be -- we have to be13 pretty sure it's going to happen. It can't14 be just an empty promise. And so one way15 that a merger applicant can prove that it is16 going to happen is to make an absolute17 commitment that it will and we will put that18 in as a merger condition and follow it.19 So that's one type of condition20 or mitigating harm. If people fear, for21 instance, that a vertical merger will result22 in prejudice to competitors at one level or1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the other, we can put on a condition that2 will mitigate that harm by requiring the3 merged entity to act more like they would4 have acted before the merger.5 Now, there are different types of6 merger conditions. And this is the7 structural and conduct remedies. There are8 also different ways that the condition can be9 presented in the order.10 The order might direct specific11 conduct. Divestees provide this service. It12 can also direct specific consequences. In13 the mergers of the RBOC when they combined,14 like Bell Atlantic, NYNEX, SBC, Ameritech,15 there were specific consequences in the16 merger order that said you should do this to17 maintain competition or to increase your18 competition with the remaining companies.19 And if you don't, then you will pay this20 fine. And that was specified in the order.21 The order might establish -- many22 orders don't establish such specific1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 consequences. The order can alternatively2 establish a framework for private dispute3 resolution.4 When we had the merger between5 the Hughes Company, which owned DirecTV, and6 when DirecTV was purchased by News7 Corporation, that was a vertical merger. And8 there were some concerns about whether or not9 there would be discrimination against other10 programmers and/or the provision of11 programming to other providers.12 And the Commission in that case,13 I think for the first time, established an14 arbitration remedy, so that the private15 parties could resolve disputes about that.16 We said what the standard was and we created17 a baseball arbitration which is a kind of18 final offer arbitration which gives a great19 incentive for the parties to settle, to come20 closer to each other and then to settle the21 dispute. So that's another type of22 condition.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 The order may also include2 specific reporting obligations to make sure3 that the applicants are complying with the4 conditions. And it may provide for5 termination and it often does.6 I mean, the conditions generally7 will last for a fixed period of time. They8 don't generally go on forever. Sometimes9 they provide for a re-evaluation at a certain10 point in time to determine whether it ought11 to be continued.12 Okay. The enforcement of merger13 conditions depends in part on the type of14 conditions and the provisions in the FCC15 order that I just described. Some conditions16 are more or less self-enforcing. The -- for17 instance, the RBOC merger conditions, if they18 didn't do such and such, then they would pay19 a fine. But it was pretty much out there.20 Another self-enforcing condition21 can be -- and this is very infrequent and I22 can only think of one or two examples, which1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 mimic a little bit are the provisions in2 other regulations which say here is the3 requirement that you must meet. And if you4 don't meet it, the license goes away. That's5 Capital Punishment. It's a very extreme6 condition. That's not usually used.7 But there are the -- the8 arbitration remedy is also a kind of self-9 enforcing condition, because the parties10 outside will enforce it.11 Another way that conditions can12 be enforced is by if someone is not meeting13 the condition, you can have a complaint to14 the Bureau or to the Enforcement Bureau. And15 I understand there is a complaint portal.16 CGB has a complaint portal where people go on17 the website and, just as a side comment, it's18 interesting to follow the presentation on the19 website, because it has been an issue of a20 lot of discussion around here as well as21 outside.22 But there is an enforcement1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 portal, which I think is fcc.gov/complaint.2 Not an enforcement portal, but a complaint3 portal that will lead citizens, if they have4 a complaint about a merger, to the process of5 how they can register that with the6 Commission.7 For monitoring compliance with8 conditions, some conditions in the merger9 order itself will provide for monitoring and10 regular reports, periodic reports by the11 applicants as to their compliance with the12 conditions. There were a number of these,13 for instance, in the Comcast/NBCU order.14 Another way that things are15 monitored is by complaints and petitions from16 interested parties. Some of the conditions17 are designed so that -- our hope is that18 there won't be complaints, that people will19 be complying and then we won't hear about it.20 But we do have the complaints21 will come in and that's another way of22 monitoring. The bureaus, the different1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 bureaus that regulate the various industries2 keep an eye on things. They are constantly3 in communication with the participants. They4 get input from citizens who have complaints,5 so they are constantly monitoring that.6 And also, the Enforcement Bureau7 as well has an opportunity to monitor as they8 look at the complaints that come in.9 Monitoring the effectiveness of10 the conditions. This occurs through several11 mechanisms. One is the relevant industry12 Bureaus have just their general experience13 and their oversight as they watch what is14 happening out there in the industry.15 They are well-aware of what was16 stated would ge a potential harm or benefit17 from a merger transaction. And as they18 observe going forward, they see is the19 condition working? Isn't it working?20 A good measure is the complaints21 that are received. If they get a lot of22 complaints, that indicates there is a problem1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 with the condition. Now, the complaints may2 be you put all these conditions on and it's3 still having a problem, so they can get that4 kind of feedback.5 Another way we monitor6 effectiveness is through other proceedings.7 There are several competition reports that8 are required by our statute on an annual9 basis or other periodic bases and those -- as10 they look at the quality of competition in11 the industry, one of the things that they12 will take into account is how well are things13 working, including are the merger conditions14 that were put on as concentration increased15 doing what they were intended to do?16 Perhaps one of the most effective17 ways of looking back and measuring18 effectiveness is the next merger comes along,19 a similar issue is presented. And we will20 get -- first of all, the Agency itself is21 very concerned about what -- how to address22 these new problems, so we will look back at1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 our own experience and judge it, but also the2 filings that come in.3 If the condition has been4 successful, the filings will say, please, put5 something like that on this one, too. If it6 has been unsuccessful, they will say well,7 that didn't work, they something else or make8 these modifications in light of the9 experience you have had.10 And we have done this, I know11 with the arbitration remedy. We have12 tinkered with that to try to address some of13 the concerns that have come up.14 Finally, modifying merger15 conditions. Conditions are placed on at the16 time of the merger. The market place in all17 of the markets we regulate is changing18 constantly with technology and other things.19 So it is sometimes necessary to monitor them.20 There are changed conditions that make what21 was once an appropriate condition, no longer22 appropriate.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 There are also disputes that2 arise over the ambiguities in the language of3 a condition. And people can come in at any4 time and petition the Commission to modify a5 condition on a merger. We don't -- this6 doesn't happy that frequently. We do get7 with some frequency requests to clarify.8 You know, because often these9 conditions are put on at a time when no one10 really knows what is going to happen when11 these companies combine, when there is that12 change in the marketplace. And so the13 conditions are written on the basis of what14 is potential, what is going to happen. And15 when actual experience starts happening,16 often it will -- things will come up that17 were not anticipated at the time the18 condition was written.19 So there might be an ambiguity or20 a need to revise a condition in some way.21 And that is done through the modification.22 So that's the kind of very quick1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 run through of the general structure and I'll2 be glad to answer any questions.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. That4 was very informative. Paul and then Claude.5 MR. SCHROEDER: Thanks. Paul6 Schroeder with the American Foundation for7 the Blind.8 I know that the Disability Work9 Group had raised this issue partly out of10 concern that disability issues were not, in11 our view, being considered as part of merger12 conditions. And that may be because we13 haven't been pushing them hard enough. But I14 wonder if you could speak to how -- well,15 first of all, have there been, to your16 knowledge, conditions that related to17 accessibility?18 I believe I have read somewhere19 that there are things like deployment of20 advance services, ensuring the diversity of21 information sources and services to the22 public, those kinds of things are considered1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 generally in the mergers as well as advancing2 technology, quality of communication3 services.4 So there is plenty of ways in5 which accessibility ought to be considered.6 And I know we did -- several of us did put in7 letters for a recent telecom merger where one8 company clearly had a superior record of9 accessibility.10 To a second though, you know,11 both could certainly use improvement. And12 that would have been a good opportunity for13 the FCC to make a very clear statement of14 disability access as part of the condition.15 So (A) has that ever been done,16 to your knowledge? And (B) how can we best17 intervene to make that happen? And I guess18 (C) is there something that CAC ought to do19 about that?20 MR. BIRD: Thank you. Good21 question. I am struggling to remember where22 I have actually seen a condition addressing1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 disabilities. You are correct that that is2 part of the general public interest mandate3 put upon us by Congress. So it's certainly4 an appropriate question to raise.5 One of the questions that comes6 up frequently is, with respect to conditions,7 are they specific to the merger? In other8 words, is the merger creating a problem that9 this condition is necessary to fix?10 And the example that you raised11 is a good one, I think, where you say these12 two companies are merging. One of them has a13 better record. If it is the company that is14 the purchasing company, that would be a good15 thing. But I know that in some companies, I16 think, when -- I'm thinking CenturyLink,17 Embarq or the one that preceded that was18 CenturyTel, Embarq or CenturyLink when there19 were two records and companies with respect20 to issues of consumer service and21 performance.22 The Commission did put some1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 conditions on that, so that would have -- I2 think it's an appropriate issue to raise.3 And I would encourage you to do it. It is4 important to raise it in the context of the5 proceeding. But I think there is a basis for6 that.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Clause?8 MR. STOUT: Hi, this is Claude.9 I would like to build on what Mark just10 mentioned or excuse me, Paul just mentioned.11 First of all, the FCC did address disability12 issues historically. We remember when AOL13 combined with Time-Warner and the Time-14 Warner/ AOL, I'm not sure who was the15 purchasing company and who was the purchased16 company there.17 But the FCC made it clear to AOL18 that they had to make their instant messenger19 services interoperable with other services.20 That was a big get for the disability21 community. And I would hope that your office22 moving forward when you are considering1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 merger applications, you can make that a2 regular item on your checklist, because3 companies should be actively pursuing hiring4 of disabled employees, making sure that their5 products and services are accessible to6 disabled consumers.7 And that way, you are helping to8 serve the public interest, because we are9 part of the public. And the public interest10 is in our interest. And I want to thank you11 for that.12 MR. BIRD: Thank you. Yes, I13 remember AOL/Time-Warner.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. That's15 okay. Yes, yes? Oh, I wasn't sure up or16 down. Ken?17 MR. McELDOWNEY: Hi. I may be a18 little bit off point here, but we work a lot19 with banks when they are going through20 mergers. And the regulatory agencies will21 suppose or, you know, impose things and I22 guess the banks will indicate what they will1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 be doing in terms of serving the public2 interest.3 And part of that is in terms of4 what foundation -- what they are going to be5 doing in terms of the combined foundation,6 what they will be doing maybe in terms of7 educational programs with the community,8 commitments to diversity and things like9 that.10 Is this ever addressed in merger11 proposals that come to the FCC?12 MR. BIRD: Yes. In fact, if you13 look at the conditions in the Comcast/NBCU14 merger, there were a number of conditions15 that addressed the public interest part of16 our standard that involves providing the paid17 programming, it's public access, education18 and government programming, children's19 television was addressed and has been20 addressed in a couple of the mergers.21 But that is definitely one of the22 services to the community, particularly in1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 broadcast mergers is a topic that is often2 addressed in the merger.3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. I have4 seen it in broadcast, but has that been done5 when telecom mergers have been approved?6 MR. BIRD: I think the conditions7 on telecom mergers primarily address the8 provision of the service, getting the service9 out and preserving competition in that10 marketplace. USF, however, which is the11 public interest part of getting this service12 out does come up in merger conditions. And I13 think in AllTel, Verizon/AllTel there was a14 specific condition about that.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Do you have16 a question, Mitsi?17 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera. 18 CHAIR BERLYN: I think you are19 on.20 MS. HERRERA: Montgomery County,21 MD. Is it on? My question is can you talk22 about the process for after you impose the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 merger conditions, how you monitor2 compliance? Earlier this morning, I talked3 about one of the conditions of Comcast merger4 with NBC Universal. Was it they offer5 certain things? They have a three year cycle6 in which they have to do these things. It7 has not gone well the first year.8 So what happens both from that9 perspective of just the overall compliance10 picture?11 And then it seems to me that some12 times in these mergers, there are conditions13 that are imposed, but there wasn't a lot of14 research that went into the benchmarks that15 are set. 16 So, for example, using school17 lunch as a benchmark for income eligibility.18 It turns out that there are lots of problems19 engaged in that. So does the Bureau do20 something so that you kind of learn from21 those lessons if we have a similar or another22 type of thing that we have got a way that we1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 don't keep making the same difficult to2 monitor conditions as part of them?3 MR. BIRD: Okay. Well, a couple4 of answers. One is I'm not -- I'll have to5 look at that specific Comcast condition, but6 I know that in a number of the conditions7 like that one in Comcast, there were8 quarterly reports due from the applicant.9 Now, if the quarterly report10 shows they are not meeting the conditions,11 then that's an action item for either the12 Bureau or the Enforcement Bureau to take13 action to stimulate them to comply with the14 condition. There are those sanctions which15 can be applied if they are not complying.16 MS. HERRERA: So I'm sorry, do --17 the sanctions are those things that have to18 be put into the merger itself as an19 enforcement or is there sort of a standing20 set? Because they have already gone and21 merged. 22 MR. BIRD: Right. No, the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 enforcement -- once an order comes out, it's2 an order of the Commission. If they are not3 complying with the condition, they are4 violating an order of the Commission and the5 Enforcement Bureau has authority to enforce6 with the sanctions that are available to7 them.8 The second question about9 learning from experience, that's a great10 question. And we do learn from experience.11 It is very helpful to us to have input from12 the public, because you will see things that13 sometimes we don't see. So if you would --14 you know, if you say just let us know if15 something is not working, if the measure is16 wrong, just let us know about that, because17 that's -- we do want to learn from that. We18 want the conditions to be effective.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Great.20 Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your21 coming here --22 MR. BIRD: Thank you.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: -- and giving us2 that report. Thank you.3 (Applause)4 CHAIR BERLYN: We now have our5 working groups and Scott is going to come and6 tell us where we are going. Hold for7 instructions. So we have until 3:00 for our8 working groups, which includes a short break.9 You can take it before your working group,10 after your working group, but we will be11 meeting back here promptly at 3:00.12 So it is now 2:00. Paul, can you13 give Scott your mike there?14 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes.15 CHAIR BERLYN: So he --16 MR. SCHROEDER: Coming your way.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Sorry, sorry18 there, Scott.19 MR. MARSHALL: Not to worry.20 Hang on one second. This is Scott and I'll21 be right with you.22 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. LEWIS: This is Clayton.2 Would it be possible for me to get patched3 into the Disability Working Group?4 MR. MARSHALL: Yes. If you call5 in on the -- or hang on that number that you6 are on now, yes, you can participate.7 MR. LEWIS: Sounds good. Thanks.8 MR. MARSHALL: It's like no9 problem. All right. Let's see, I'm sorry.10 Yes, we have breakouts. Right across the11 hall here without going upstairs or anything12 of that sort, that would be on your left hand13 side just go past the intersecting hallway14 where the restrooms are, keep going straight15 and that's TWA-402 and 442, that's adjoining16 rooms.17 And then going up the --18 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott?19 MR. MARSHALL: Yes?20 CHAIR BERLYN: Which one are we21 going to have in there?22 MR. MARSHALL: Oh, okay. All1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 right. Oh, I'm sorry. Picky, picky, a minor2 detail, a minor detail.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, first of4 all, we are going to have disability stay -- 5 MR. MARSHALL: Disability will6 stay here.7 CHAIR BERLYN: -- here. Okay.8 MR. MARSHALL: Because of the9 captioning availability and all that sort of10 stuff.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 12 MR. MARSHALL: Who else wants to13 meet, first of all?14 CHAIR BERLYN: Media. Media15 Working Group is going to meet, so shall we16 put them in the first --17 MR. MARSHALL: Yes, one of those18 rooms, yes.19 CHAIR BERLYN: -- one then?20 MR. MARSHALL: That would be21 fine.22 CHAIR BERLYN: In 402?1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. MARSHALL: 402.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 3 MR. MARSHALL: That would work.4 Media 402. Broadband, do you want to meet?5 MR. BARTHOLME: We'll stay here.6 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. Well, you7 do have a choice.8 MR. BARTHOLME: We could take a9 long break though.10 MR. MARSHALL: You are pretty11 big, so you should probably go up to 468,12 which is up the stairway and to your right.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Right.14 MR. MARSHALL: Up the stairway15 and then make a right and then it will be on16 your right, that's TWC-468. Okay. And17 anybody else want to meet? Universal18 Service? Okay. Universal Service, why don't19 you do 442, which is right next to 402.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Right.21 MR. MARSHALL: And then --22 CHAIR BERLYN: Consumer wants to1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 meet.2 MR. MARSHALL: -- Consumer, you3 have a choice. You can either stay here at4 the other end of this room or the only other5 rooms I have available are on the second6 floor and that's not a problem, but you will7 need one of us to guide you up there to get8 through the locked doors and all that kind of9 stuff.10 MR. BARTHOLME: We will happily11 stay here.12 MR. MARSHALL: You'll happily13 stay here. All right. So I guess that takes14 care of it. All right. Thanks, everybody.15 We will see you around 3:00.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Okay.17 That works.18 (Whereupon, at 2:06 p.m. a recess19 until 3:10 p.m.)20 CHAIR BERLYN: We are going to21 jump right into our working group reports and22 action. I'm going to call on the Disability1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Working Group first and, Lise, if you could2 report back and share some information with3 us?4 MS. HAMLIN: Okay. Thank you.5 This is Lise Hamlin from Hearing Loss6 Association. We are going to give a quick7 report of the whole committee and then8 Rebecca Ladew had sent out, through Scott's9 email to you, a report on speech-to-speech10 and she will give a real -- we will both do11 real brief updates on where we are here.12 First, I wanted to give you a13 heads up on right now we have not brought14 recommendations, but we are planning to for15 our last meeting in October. So we are going16 to be catching up here. So we expect to have17 a recommendation on speech-to-speech.18 We will be also working on a new19 issue which is accessible textbooks. There20 are now textbooks coming out that have, the21 eTextbooks that have video on audible22 content. And we will put together a1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 recommendation for that as well that we can2 bring forward.3 We are going to also take a look4 at mobile health care, the same kind of5 problems, so that -- remote health care, so6 there are problems with access to, so we are7 going to take a look at that and see if there8 is a recommendation that may or may not come9 out. We are going to take a look at that.10 And finally, we are also looking11 at what is happening with mobile captioning12 and new entries into the marketplace and how13 we can recommend -- how the FCC can14 facilitate that.15 There was also some discussion16 now with -- we are not sure we are going to17 come up a recommendation on this, but you18 should be aware that now that video19 description is getting on board and we are20 going forward with CVAA, monitoring of21 compliance with the new rules is going to be22 an issue.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So I think what will happen from2 the Disability Working Group is we will take3 a look at how that is happening, what -- how4 we can see that people are actually5 fulfilling their obligations. And if at some6 point in the future we feel that we need a7 recommendation on that, we may come forward8 with that as well.9 We also just landed -- Clayton is10 moving to the Department of Ed.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh really?12 MS. HAMLIN: Yes. I hope that13 was public, Clayton. Ken told our group. So14 we are losing him from the group, but we wish15 him well and we want to thank him for all his16 work on the group. And so now, I'm going to17 turn it over to Rebecca for her report on18 speech-to-speech.19 MS. LADEW: Hi. If the FCC wants20 individuals with speech disabilities to enjoy21 connectivity with others under the Broadband22 Program, the Wide Area Network, then the FCC1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 should start thinking about installing the2 rules and regulations for speech-to-speech3 that were proposed under the 1998 Notice of4 Proposed Rulemaking.5 It is urgent that these rules and6 regulations be installed or replaced to meet7 the 21st Century technological advances.8 Also, updating the rules and9 regulations will assist in adding a new10 service that the speech disabled community11 would like to have installed, video-assisted12 speech-to-speech.13 There is a video speech-to-speech14 trial going on in Virginia that I will be15 participating in. California recently had16 its trial. Hopefully more states will follow17 suit.18 Updating the rules and19 regulations for speech-to-speech and the20 installation of video speech-to-speech would21 greatly enhance the Next Generation 91122 services for the speech disabled community.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 It is hoped that the Disabilities2 Working Group and the full CAC will give its3 full support on this issue.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you5 very much, Lise and Rebecca. I appreciate6 that and appreciate your report and the work7 that your working group is doing. Thank you.8 I see Ed is still working with his group back9 there. The working group is still working.10 Shall we -- we are going to skip the Consumer11 Empowerment Working Group for now.12 And, Barry, are you ready to13 report? I see you at your computer there.14 MR. UMANSKY: What we have15 arrived from this today, we have --16 PARTICIPANT: The mike.17 MR. UMANSKY: Hello? We have18 decided to defer until October. A matter19 dealing with political broadcast advertising20 disclosure, it's clear this is not a good21 time for -- to expect any resolution or22 changes by the FCC nor the Congress. So stay1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 tuned for that in October.2 Oh, you do have before you, and3 they are both in your packet, two documents.4 One has been edited and we are going to put5 it on the screen in a few minutes. Okay.6 Any more and I'll be eating it. I think this7 is not on. Hello?8 PARTICIPANT: The switch.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Maybe raise your10 hand. No, I think it's working.11 MR. UMANSKY: I've raised all12 seven hands here.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Yes.14 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. 15 CHAIR BERLYN: You have a great16 voice, but it's --17 MR. UMANSKY: Are you there yet?18 PARTICIPANT: Do you want to try19 this one?20 CHAIR BERLYN: No, I think it's21 working.22 PARTICIPANT: Okay. 1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. I will just2 spare you a repeat. What we have before you3 now, two recommendations. One deals with4 emergency messaging. And you might recall at5 an earlier CAC meeting, we were talking about6 the results of the First National Test of the7 Emergency Alert System.8 And in the original presentation,9 we talked about how people watching over10 multi-channel video providers, some might11 have some difficulty if they were hearing12 impaired.13 During the course of the14 discussion, there was a consensus developed15 that when it comes to emergency alerting and16 emergency communications, through EAS or17 other means, that this group has an interest18 in everyone being able to receive them,19 regardless of whether they might be hearing-20 impaired, visually-impaired or part of the21 deaf/blind community.22 That was fine and that was our1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 recommendation from last year.2 Now, we are looking at other3 changes in the emergency alerting. Kicking4 in later this month is the new requirement5 for what's called Common Alerting Protocol.6 It's a technology to be adopted now by7 broadcast stations and multi-channel8 providers.9 It seems clear that down the road10 a technology like this will be applied to11 mobile wireless services, perhaps even to12 social media, all with the goal of ensuring13 that members of the public, when there is an14 alerting message to be distributed, have a15 fighting chance of hearing it, seeing it,16 sensing it.17 So the recommendation we have for18 you just looks to what is happening now with19 the Common Alerting Protocol and looking to20 the future of other technologies. I have21 talked to many people here. I have talked to22 members of our working group and other1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 members of the CAC, in general, and there2 seems to be a consensus and support and we3 certainly accept any discussion or4 recommendations on that one.5 Is there a motion?6 CHAIR BERLYN: Motion to --7 MR. UMANSKY: Accept.8 CHAIR BERLYN: -- accept the9 recommendation from the floor? A motion?10 MR. UMANSKY: Thank you. Is11 there a second?12 CHAIR BERLYN: Can people13 verbalize this as well?14 MR. UMANSKY: It was Mitsi15 Herrera.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So17 discussion on the recommendation? Any18 discussion? Lise?19 MS. HAMLIN: Can I --20 CHAIR BERLYN: Lise, raise your21 hand.22 MS. HAMLIN: Can I just ask where1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 this is in our -- is it in our packet?2 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, it is.3 CHAIR BERLYN: It is in the4 packet.5 MS. HAMLIN: Which one is it?6 What does it say on top?7 MR. UMANSKY: Well, it says --8 the heading is "FCC Consumer Advisory9 Committee Further Recommendation Regarding10 the Provision of Emergency Messages to the11 Public." We sent this draft to Scott many12 days ago and then many days ago he --13 CHAIR BERLYN: It's in there.14 MR. UMANSKY: -- sent it15 electronically and you have hard copies in16 your packet.17 CHAIR BERLYN: It's in there. Do18 you see it, Lise?19 MR. UMANSKY: You got an email20 from Scott about three or four days ago with21 this document and it's also in hard copy in22 the packet.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: The hard copy is2 in the packet.3 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. Thank you.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Any -- oh, Mitsi?5 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,6 Montgomery County. I don't have any -- I7 think it's a good effort and I don't have any8 objection to it. I would just say that if9 it's possible for looking at, at some point,10 what the FCC has done with our11 recommendations, it may be useful that you12 recast this as the CAC recommends one, two,13 three, four, because you have now got four14 items in here, two are numbered.15 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. The first16 paragraph describes what we did before. I17 think what we should recommend though is that18 when we get back together in October, that we19 have representatives from the Commission's20 staff talk about their assessment of the EAS21 National Test, the effectiveness of the22 Common Alerting Protocol and perhaps give us1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 a glimpse of how, in the future, there may be2 additional ways of alerting the public to3 emergency information. Okay. All right.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Any further5 discussion? Okay. I'll call the question.6 All those in favor say aye.7 ALL: Aye.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Any opposed? I'm9 sorry? Oh, okay. Any abstentions? Okay.10 No abstentions, Scott. And no opposed.11 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. For the next12 presentation, if we could ask those in the13 booth to put the -- there we go. Great.14 What I have done is split this up, so that15 people can see it in very large print.16 What we have done is taken the17 second recommendation that the working group,18 our Media Working Group, has advanced to you19 and we have shortened it, tightened it and20 made it a little more consumer-focused.21 The opening paragraph is the22 same, given the background of how the1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Commission is responding to --2 PARTICIPANT: Is this the3 Spectrum?4 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.5 MR. UMANSKY: It certainly is.6 CHAIR BERLYN: This is the --7 MR. UMANSKY: That's the only one8 left to talk about.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, would you10 just read the header, that might -- just so11 people can find it in their packet?12 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, there you go.13 "FCC Consumer Advisory Committee14 Recommendation Regarding Spectrum15 Reallocation and Reauthorization." Okay. 16 MR. MARSHALL: Barry, did I17 understand you correctly, what you are18 presenting now is different than what was19 distributed --20 MR. UMANSKY: Right. What we21 have done --22 MR. MARSHALL: -- in the packet?1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Okay. Go ahead.2 MR. UMANSKY: -- we have had3 meetings of --4 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, changes.5 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.6 MR. UMANSKY: -- our Media7 Working Group.8 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.9 MR. UMANSKY: We have consulted10 with others and we are offering for you,11 basically, something that will take this12 screen, another page and then one sentence.13 So we put it in large print.14 The first paragraph is what you15 have seen verbatim from the original16 recommendation. So we move to the next page,17 it says "Whereas, the public has an interest18 in both the expansion of wireless broadband19 services and the continued provision of20 valuable over-the-air television broadcast21 services and local stations. Therefore, be22 it resolved that the FCC's Consumer Advisory1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Committee, CAC" --2 PARTICIPANT: Slow down.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, slow down4 just a bit.5 PARTICIPANT: Our interpreter is6 interpreting.7 MR. UMANSKY: Oh, I'm sorry.8 CAC.9 PARTICIPANT: Don't mumble and10 slow down.11 MR. UMANSKY: Although, it's on12 the screen.13 PARTICIPANT: Okay. 14 MR. UMANSKY: And even those at15 home --16 CHAIR BERLYN: Some may -- yes.17 MR. UMANSKY: -- see it on the18 screen.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Some may not be20 able to do that.21 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. Again,22 nothing has changed up to the paragraph that1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 is on your screen. Let's start out, "urges2 that consistent with the terms of the," and3 this is the legislation discussed earlier by4 the FCC staff, "Middle Class Tax Relief and5 Job Creation Act of 2012. FCC regulatory6 proceedings to reallocate and reauthorize7 portions of the Spectrum heretofore used for8 over-the-air television broadcasting, in9 short, one, that the impact to television10 viewers is minimized, while at the same time11 maximizing benefits to wireless consumers.12 And two, that terrestrial13 television stations, terrestrial stations14 retain the ability to offer and consumers15 retain the ability to benefit from high16 definition, multi-cast programming and17 innovative new services, such as mobile DTV."18 That is the recommendation19 offered for you. It has been approved by the20 Media Working Group and of others with whom21 we have spoken today.22 CHAIR BERLYN: Do --1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. UMANSKY: Put it back up.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, put it back3 on the screen while we are talking about it.4 Do I have a motion to move the5 recommendation? I need a motion from the6 floor before discussion. I have a motion to7 move it from Mary. Second?8 MS. LEECH: Second.9 CHAIR BERLYN: And I have a10 second from Irene. Discussion? Scott, I saw11 your card go up first. Scott, raise your12 hand and pull the mike.13 MR. BERGMANN: I forget every14 time.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Raise your hand.16 MR. BERGMANN: Sorry about that.17 Scott Bergmann from CTIA. Can everybody hear18 me okay now?19 CHAIR BERLYN: I think so.20 MR. BERGMANN: So I just have --21 I'm not on the Media Working Group, but I22 wanted to thank the members of the Media1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Working Group for trying to refocus this2 recommendation a little bit more towards3 consumers. So I appreciate that.4 And I guess, to that note, I5 wanted to suggest that the second6 recommendation has added the concept of7 consumers by consumers retaining the ability8 to benefit da, da, da. But I wanted to ask9 about that first part of Recommendation No.10 2, which talks about terrestrial stations11 retaining the ability to offer.12 And it seems to me like that13 would depend on which options a broadcast14 station chose under the new Act, right? The15 Act provides a variety of different things.16 So I guess my recommendation --17 and some of them are inconsistent with that,18 right? If someone chose to really push their19 Spectrum or to channel share, they might not20 retain that ability.21 So I guess my recommendation22 would be to start No. 2 with a focus on1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 consumers. So, you know, as you guys have2 really nicely captured with No. 1, I think3 you have recognized there is a balance,4 right? There is going to be upside to5 consumers and you also want to minimize6 disruption to them as well, too.7 And I guess I would encourage8 folks to orient the second recommendation to9 consumers as well, too. So just to flow No.10 2 from consumers retaining the ability to11 benefit from those services that you guys12 listed there as well, too.13 So I guess that was thought one.14 And thought two was just to make sure -- I15 think the intent of this recommendation is to16 be consistent with the Act that was passed17 and -- which reflects a balancing of18 different public policy benefits one way or19 the other. And I just wanted to make sure20 that that was the case. And if it's not the21 case, to find out. So those were my two22 comments.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Again, thank you guys for being2 willing to -- particularly given that this is3 a Consumer Advisory Committee focused on the4 consumer perspective on this recommendation.5 MR. UMANSKY: Yes?6 MS. KEARNEY: This is Julie7 Kearney from CEA. And I think Mitsi and I8 are both a little confused. What is our goal9 with this recommendation? Because the10 statute, you know, gives the Commission some11 very clear direction on what --12 MR. UMANSKY: It does.13 MS. KEARNEY: -- they are to do.14 So are we -- I would like just to understand15 further, do we need to tell the Commission16 what they need to do?17 MR. UMANSKY: No. I think there18 is a couple of very clear consumer elements19 of that, you know, Middle Class Tax Cut20 Extension. And this recommendation is keyed21 to and suggests the Commission, of course,22 will follow the lead, the mandate of1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Congress.2 But to point out how there are3 consumer benefits here, isn't just an4 industry-wide issue.5 MS. KEARNEY: Do --6 MR. UMANSKY: That --7 MS. KEARNEY: Okay. I guess my8 question is do we do this with every piece of9 legislation that comes down? Did we do this10 with CVAA, telling the Commission to follow11 what Congress told them to do? I just wonder12 what the -- you know, what do we want them to13 do?14 MR. UMANSKY: The expression of15 the desires of the Consumer Advisory16 Committee. It need not replicate every17 element of every statute, but it's simply an18 expression of their interest in the matter.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Mitsi?20 MS. HERRERA: Okay. So beyond21 the fact that it is -- I'm not really clear22 what the value-added necessary consumer spin1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 of it is. But substantively, I am somewhat2 concerned that impact on viewers is minimized3 is a somewhat murky and nebulous term. And I4 don't necessarily -- I mean, I haven't been5 in the Media Working Group.6 MR. UMANSKY: Right.7 MS. HERRERA: But to some extent,8 over-the-air broadcast is the least efficient9 use of Spectrum. And to -- and there is10 only, what is it, under 10 percent of people11 who have televisions use over-the-air --12 MR. UMANSKY: Right.13 MS. HERRERA: -- to receive14 those. So I'm not necessarily sure that15 protecting the right of those 10 percent of16 the population to continue to get it over-17 the-air is something that -- and the impact18 on them has to be minimized in moving forward19 with wireless broadband.20 MR. UMANSKY: Well, for better or21 for worse, that's what the statute requires,22 that there are people that their only choice1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 is over-the-air television. That quantum2 will probably continue for quite a while.3 MS. HERRERA: So --4 MR. UMANSKY: There is nothing in5 this statement that is antithetical to what6 the Congress has directed the FCC to do.7 MS. HERRERA: Okay. So I have8 not reviewed the statute in any -- I haven't9 reviewed it at all. So can you point out in10 that -- in the resolution what is the11 resolution stating that goes beyond what the12 statute directs the FCC to do?13 MR. UMANSKY: Nothing.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Can we put it back15 up on the screen? Thank you.16 MS. HERRERA: Then I'm not really17 understanding --18 MR. UMANSKY: It is --19 MS. HERRERA: -- then why we are20 submitting it. If it's -- I mean, most of21 the things that we have had have sort of been22 pointing out things that have fallen through1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the cracks or raising the awareness of2 specific things from, in a lot of ways, a3 consumer and a user perspective that4 sometimes people at the top don't look at.5 And I'm just trying to6 understand. Is it that because we want to be7 engaged on the issue with the FCC? Because8 one of the things we talked about was looking9 to see how the FCC dealt specifically with10 the recommendations that we gave.11 MR. UMANSKY: Right.12 MS. HERRERA: So if we are sort13 of just giving a recommendation that says we14 resolve that you should follow the statute,15 I'm -- it makes it difficult, I think, to16 look to see the value that we have created17 and provided.18 MR. UMANSKY: I have looked at19 the last 11 or 12 years worth of20 recommendations coming from this Advisory21 Committee. And in many issues, the Advisory22 Committee simply expresses its opinion, its1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 views, which in some cases are completely2 congruent with what relevant statutes are and3 the thrust of FCC proceedings.4 But that has not barred this5 Committee from expressing itself on issues it6 considers to be important to consumers. This7 would not be breaking new ground in terms of8 the role of the Consumer Advisory Committee9 at all.10 It would be an expression of a11 viewpoint and a direction. And it is not12 antithetical to the terms of the statute.13 Ann?14 CHAIR BERLYN: I have Ann and15 then Luisa.16 MS. BOBECK: Hi, Ann Bobeck with17 the National Association of Broadcasters. I18 just want to point out it is entirely19 consistent with the statute to promote20 advance wireless broadband service in terms21 of availability of Spectrum, but also crucial22 to the point to preserve free over-the-air1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 television --2 MR. UMANSKY: Right.3 MS. BOBECK: -- to the 46 million4 television sets and the people that are5 reliant on free over-the-air television.6 Remember who those people are. It is the7 elderly, Hispanic. It is often the low-8 income folks, persons with disabilities.9 So to say that it is not10 efficient, I honestly take disagreement that11 a one-to-many service is not an efficient use12 of Spectrum. We can have an off-line13 discussion that.14 But, you know, the statute15 recognized the value of both services and I16 would think that if you took a poll around17 this table and all the folks that went18 through the DTV transition, then -- and the19 95 out of the top 100 programs that are on20 broadcast television as the most popular21 television programs, I think a lot of22 consumers do value free over-the-air1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 television.2 So I think it is important as the3 Advisory Committee that should we want to4 value a Spectrum reallocation, that it is5 important that anything that remains post-6 reallocation as we repack the broadcast7 Spectrum, that consumers don't lose that8 access, particularly those at-risk consumers.9 I think that's the intent of the10 recommendation, to recognize there is value11 in freeing up in a Spectrum Incentive Auction12 for new services, but not disenfranchise13 consumers in the process. I think that's an14 important public policy goal for this15 Advisory Committee to recognize.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Luisa?17 MS. LANCETTI: Luisa Lancetti.18 Obviously, my company is --19 CHAIR BERLYN: Just raise your20 hand and identify yourself.21 MS. LANCETTI: My company is very22 keen, obviously, on Spectrum matters and was1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 involved in trying to fashion effective2 Spectrum legislation that can now be the3 basis for these important Commission4 proceedings.5 With that said, I am worried that6 there be unintended consequences here,7 because I do hear on one hand the notion that8 this is only meant to confirm what the9 statute is requiring and, therefore, the10 Commission should be guided by and11 implementing the legislation.12 But then other comments13 suggesting that no, perhaps this should go14 beyond that in terms of the consumer impacts15 and issues.16 So with that said, and having not17 been involved in the Media Group18 deliberations, I'm a little concerned that,19 again, we not have unintended consequences as20 a result of this resolution.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Paul and then22 Julie again. Paul needs a mike. Can someone1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 --2 MR. SCHROEDER: Am I stealing3 from you, Barry? Uh-oh. Well, now, Paul4 Schroeder, American Foundation for the Blind.5 I have got the old language here6 in front of me, but can -- before I say7 anything further, can you remind me what the8 new language says in the section that9 referred, it was Item No. 2, under the10 therefores, high definition, multi-cast11 programming, innovative new services, mobile12 DTV, etcetera?13 MR. UMANSKY: Right. Okay. 14 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry?15 MR. UMANSKY: I would say that --16 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry, pull the17 mike up.18 MR. UMANSKY: Again, according to19 the legislation itself, that the proceedings20 of the Commission to reallocate or21 reauthorize portions of the Spectrum22 heretofore used for over-the-air television1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 broadcasting ensure: (1) That the impact to2 television viewers is minimized while at the3 same time maximizing benefits for wireless4 consumers.5 And (2), which I think is your6 focus, that terrestrial stations retain the7 ability to offer and consumers retain the8 ability to benefit from high definition,9 multi-cast programming and innovative new10 services, such as mobile DTV.11 MR. SCHROEDER: Right. Paul12 Schroeder with AFB. Then this is exactly, I13 think, where, I would say, the Consumer14 Advisory Committee could step in and suggest15 that, in fact, in this section we clarify16 that, since there has been such a challenge17 facing broadcasters in terms of how to18 allocate portions of Spectrum for description19 channel, for example, compared to the20 Spectrum allocated for Spanish, as a second21 audio channel.22 That perhaps we add that language1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 in here to express that this is an2 opportunity for the Commission to make clear3 that that is a direction that would be4 helpful to see broadcasters go with this5 public Spectrum.6 MR. UMANSKY: Any other comments?7 CHAIR BERLYN: Julie?8 MS. KEARNEY: This is getting9 interesting. I think just given the10 discussion we are having here, and a lot of11 us including Ann and Scott and Luisa and12 Mary, we are all pretty familiar with the13 legislation.14 There are a lot of consumer15 benefit that aren't just limited to this.16 There was First Responder language. There17 was -- you know, there are different18 elements.19 And I think I would be more20 comfortable taking the Act in its, you know,21 sort of entirety and focusing on the22 different consumer benefits, rather than just1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 this specific benefit or directing the2 Commission to -- in their implementation,3 that they look to benefits for consumers like4 broadcasting, like advanced communication5 services, like First Responders, you know,6 that we take a higher level approach.7 I'm just SCEA. I'm not8 comfortable with a specific, you know,9 direction that this is going in. So I would10 rather have a high level approach, take some11 more time to look at the Act and look at the12 benefits, the full benefits for consumers.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott, do you have14 your card -- did you have your card up a15 second time?16 MR. BERGMANN: I see that now.17 CHAIR BERLYN: You did or --18 okay.19 MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann,20 CTIA. I'll get it eventually. I think there21 is a lot of merit to what Julie suggests.22 And this is one of the challenges about1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 trying to opine about a piece of legislation2 that affects a variety of different piece3 parts.4 Right? It reflects our national5 goals in terms of over-the-air broadcasting,6 in terms of mobile broadband, in terms of7 public safety and having the chance to have8 the whole Committee work on its9 interpretation probably would be beneficial,10 right, to address accessibility issues that11 Paul has raised as well, too.12 So I would certainly be more13 comfortable with that approach as well, too.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Lise and Mitsi.15 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin here.16 Let me just say that while some people here17 actually are real familiar with this, I am18 not. I don't know if I'm the only one here19 who is not real familiar with this statute.20 And, for me, I'm finding that I'm21 not -- I'm listening to the back and forth,22 but I don't have enough background. So I'm1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 wondering, and I see other suggestions, if2 the Committee would consider giving us more3 background and more information between now4 and maybe the next meeting or if you want to5 vote in the interim. I don't know if there6 is a need for a big rush for this to come7 out.8 But I would feel personally more9 comfortable if I had more information to work10 with.11 MR. UMANSKY: Yes. I don't12 believe -- 13 MS. HAMLIN: Would you raise your14 hand, because I can't hear you?15 MR. UMANSKY: Yes.16 MS. HAMLIN: Every time you go17 off mike.18 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, if I can19 just--20 CHAIR BERLYN: And get close to21 the mike there, Barry.22 MR. UMANSKY: -- respond here.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Hi. I'm not sure what the number of arrows2 we have on our quiver in terms of dealing3 with this procedurally, but I would be4 amenable to a small task group be set up to5 put together another draft, one that could be6 distributed electronically to the Members of7 this plenary Advisory Committee. And if we8 can vote in the interim, that's fine.9 If not, this may have to wait10 until the fall. But I see that there are a11 number of people with some good ideas. And I12 think that to that extent, we would have13 something that would be -- reflect those14 sentiments to the extent that they have15 support, that's fine.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott?17 MR. MARSHALL: I was just going18 to point out --19 CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry. Mitsi20 had her card up before you. So can we get21 her comment and then your's?22 MR. MARSHALL: Sure.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. HERRERA: Mitsuko Herrera,2 Montgomery County. I don't disagree with3 what Julie and Lise have said. I am4 sensitive to the fact that I think it is5 significantly expanding the scope of work.6 If the resolution wants to be tailored just7 to address the impact on over-the-air8 television, people who receive television9 over-the-air, in the Act, does it spell out10 any type of other things that the FCC should11 be doing?12 In my community, we have had lots13 of complaints from people that when they had14 digital television, they lose certain15 channels. They have had certain issues16 related to their ability to continue to17 receive those signals.18 And so what I'm wondering is19 rather than just saying that you want to20 minimize the impact, should you actually be21 before you start getting rid of more22 Spectrum, try to address those issues related1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 to the transition to ensure that people who2 are relying on over-the-air reception3 actually get good reception and that the4 reception extends to the distances that it5 needs to.6 MR. UMANSKY: Right. Part of the7 Act and part of the provisions of FCC8 proceedings deal with replicating service9 areas, deal with ensuring that people that10 can receive television, in particular,11 choices on the dial, continue to receive12 those choices. That's one of the challenges13 of repacking the Spectrum.14 So, yes, you will find that those15 issues are clearly in the statute and in16 the-- it will be part of the FCC's Rulemaking17 Proceedings.18 MS. HERRERA: So, I mean, if what19 we are looking at doing is advocating on20 behalf of consumers, so in this area, there21 are lots of people who sort of sit in this no22 man's land between Baltimore and Washington,1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 D.C. And they sort of complain about, you2 know, which channels they got or which ones3 they didn't.4 And I get the calls, so that's5 why I'm mentioning it. But if what we are6 talking about is that we want to promote and7 make sure that the FCC looks after the8 consumer interest of those people who receive9 over-the-air signals, then I would just feel10 that having that spelled out a little bit11 more in the resolution would be more helpful12 to the FCC.13 MR. UMANSKY: Again, the statute14 went beyond just talking about those people15 that receive it over-the-air. We are talking16 about a communication service and its ability17 to provide that service continually to the18 public.19 One can look to the litany of FCC20 proceedings dealing with cable carrying and21 nonduplication, the whole relationship of22 over-the-air broadcasting other media.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And looking at the context now of2 the Spectrum reallocation, there are larger3 communications policy issues than just simply4 people being able to view it over-the-air.5 I think, again, I would be6 amenable to having a small task group look at7 this one more time. The hour is late.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, we --9 MR. UMANSKY: And perhaps if10 that's one of our choices, Madam Chairperson,11 we would appoint that group.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Do we need a13 motion for that, Scott?14 MR. BERGMANN: Sure.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. So could we16 have a motion on the floor to do that? And,17 Scott, do you need to do anything? Do you18 have a --19 MR. BERGMANN: I would still20 point out to folks who may not track the21 issue --22 CHAIR BERLYN: Raise your hand.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann,2 again, with CTIA. I was going to point out3 for folks who don't track --4 CHAIR BERLYN: I don't think you5 are on mike.6 MR. BERGMANN: -- these issues,7 that the FCC has not yet released its NPRM on8 implementing the statute yet. So there is9 time. The FCC has targeted the fall for at10 least an NPRM, so --11 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 12 MR. BERGMANN: -- in contrast to13 some of the other issues where we are14 weighing in after the record is closed, here15 the FCC is still in the process of putting16 together these Notices of Proposed17 Rulemaking.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 19 MR. BERGMANN: So there is the20 advantage of having some time.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So a22 recommendation from the floor?1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. LEECH: We've got a motion2 that is alive?3 MR. UMANSKY: Yes.4 MS. LEECH: Do we adjust that --5 MS. HAMLIN: Can't hear you,6 Irene.7 PARTICIPANT: I can't hear her.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh, yes, we have9 -- there is a recommendation to approve the10 --11 MR. MARSHALL: I think a motion12 to refer back will take precedent, would it13 not, on a motion that has been made and14 seconded?15 MR. UMANSKY: Right.16 MR. MARSHALL: And what -- I17 think you are not only referring it back to18 the Media Subcommittee, but you want some19 additional volunteers to look at it.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Which is no --21 MR. MARSHALL: Which is no22 problem.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: We can always have2 that for the working group.3 MR. MARSHALL: Yes, yes.4 MR. UMANSKY: So I think a5 motion --6 CHAIR BERLYN: So we have a7 motion to --8 MR. UMANSKY: To refer back --9 CHAIR BERLYN: -- refer it --10 MR. UMANSKY: -- for further11 work.12 CHAIR BERLYN: -- for further13 work.14 MR. UMANSKY: Should do it.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Some -- okay. Ann16 made that motion.17 MR. UMANSKY: I think I'm correct18 on that.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Second. Okay.20 Voting on referring it back to the working21 group --22 MR. UMANSKY: Right. No1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 discussion.2 CHAIR BERLYN: -- for further3 consideration.4 MS. HERRERA: Can we refer it5 back? I mean, because it got raised about --6 Mitsi Herrera. Because it got raised about7 the NPRM. Could the working group look at8 making recommendations to the FCC of issues9 to include in the NPRM to get comments on?10 MR. UMANSKY: It's my11 understanding these recommendations do12 actually wind up in relevant docketed13 proceedings, do they not?14 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, absolutely.16 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, I think that's17 already part of the process.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right.19 MR. MARSHALL: Part of the20 relevance.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Let's move22 forward. This Committee can do whatever it1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 --2 MR. MARSHALL: Yes, that's3 already part of the process.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So all5 those in favor, say aye.6 ALL: Aye.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Opposed?8 Abstaining? Anyone abstaining? Nope, okay.9 No nos, no abstaining. Thank you very much,10 Barry --11 MR. UMANSKY: All right.12 MR. MARSHALL: Well done.13 CHAIR BERLYN: -- for all your14 hard work there.15 MR. UMANSKY: All right.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Next up,17 Consumer Group, are you ready? Ed?18 MR. BARTHOLME: This is Ed19 Bartholme with Call for Action. I actually20 wanted to get some clarification on something21 that was just brought up during that group,22 as it might pertain to our group.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 There was a question raised about2 whether or not it would be possible if there3 was further discussion on something to have a4 vote on something in between this meeting and5 the next meeting.6 CHAIR BERLYN: It is possible.7 We could call a special meeting by conference8 call, so we have our next meeting in October,9 but we could call a conference call if we10 have issues to be considered before then. So11 absolutely.12 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 13 MR. MARSHALL: This is Scott.14 All the notice requirements in the Federal15 Register would still apply though and we16 would have to have an open meeting here at17 the headquarters and hopefully local people18 would attend. Then out of towners would call19 in on the conference line, that's the way it20 would have to work.21 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 22 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. 1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. BARTHOLME: Seeing as how2 that is a possibility for another group --3 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.4 MR. BARTHOLME: -- I think I5 would like to jump on the bandwagon, so to6 speak.7 CHAIR BERLYN: All right.8 MR. BARTHOLME: Maybe I'm trying9 to drive attendance for the special meeting10 by having more than one topic to discuss.11 No, we had put together a12 recommendation that was in everybody's packet13 today concerning interruption of wireless14 services. There were some last minute15 suggestions for adjustment. And, you know,16 while everybody seems to be coming at it from17 the same approach, I think that there is some18 haggling on some finer points just to get19 everybody exactly on the same page.20 So I think we would like to take21 advantage of a little bit more time on this,22 especially given the fact that Art Neill from1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 UCAN, who was the primary driving force2 behind this, couldn't actually be here today.3 So without his input, you know, I want to4 make sure that we are staying true to his5 original intent behind this recommendation.6 So I would like to table what was7 in your packet today, look forward to an8 updated draft coming out and hopefully we can9 move on that at an interim meeting.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. That's11 fine, Ed. And so that will definitely drive12 us to a special interim meeting.13 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 14 CHAIR BERLYN: We now have two15 recommendations to look forward to for that16 meeting. So we will try and plan that as17 soon as possible and you and Barry will give18 us a heads up.19 MR. BARTHOLME: Yes.20 CHAIR BERLYN: We also have21 another issue which I'll be discussing22 shortly after all of our reports.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So and you have nothing else?2 MR. BARTHOLME: No, that's all3 for today.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you,5 Ed.6 MR. BARTHOLME: Thank you.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Mark and Chris,8 Broadband Working Group? You're going to9 give us a third issue?10 MR. DeFALCO: Hi, Mark DeFalco.11 There is danger in going after these first12 two groups or these last two groups here, I13 think, so, no. We have a recommendation to14 -- I don't know. Does what we gave you,15 Scott, need to be read in or not?16 MR. MARSHALL: Well, somebody has17 -- everyone has it in their packet, so it was18 distributed in advance.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Everyone has it.20 Paul has it.21 MR. MARSHALL: Unless somebody22 really has a burning desire --1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. DeFALCO: Okay. It's the2 document that is listed "Broadband."3 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Just read4 the headline there.5 MR. DeFALCO: Yes, "Broadband -6 GPI06-15-12." This has been circulated and I7 don't think there is any controversy. So8 this should be a real easy one to hopefully9 get through.10 And then just by way of a report11 on what we discussed at our breakout session,12 we believe we will have another13 recommendation for you for the October14 meeting. Again, I don't think it will be a15 controversial recommendation, but we will16 have another recommendation coming for the17 next meeting.18 So with that, I think you are19 ready to maybe vote this one in?20 MR. MARSHALL: We have to move21 the recommendation and second it.22 MR. SCHROEDER: I would move1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 adoption of --2 MR. MARSHALL: Before we --3 MR. SCHROEDER: -- the GPII4 motion.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Paul.6 MR. DeFALCO: Paul moved.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Anyone second?8 MR. UMANSKY: Second.9 CHAIR BERLYN: We have a second.10 MR. DeFALCO: Who seconded it?11 MR. SCHROEDER: And I may want to12 make one comment on it as well.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay, Paul.14 MR. DeFALCO: Who seconded it,15 first, please?16 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry seconded.17 MR. DeFALCO: Barry, okay, good.18 All right. Discussion?19 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, Paul20 Schroeder.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, Paul.22 MR. SCHROEDER: American1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Foundation for the Blind. I think the GPII2 is terrific. I do want to suggest adding a3 sentence at the end that would go something4 like this.5 The GPII, though it may foster6 access, does not, and I was debating between7 mitigate or effect, the need for8 implementation of accessibility policies.9 The reason I raise that is GPII10 is often talked about in these glowing almost11 religious terms and I think it is great. I12 mean, I don't want to minimize it, but I also13 don't want people to get carried away to14 believe that this is the solution that ends15 all need for the hard work that has been done16 on accessibility policies, because it17 doesn't.18 It may work. It should19 compliment and hopefully foster those, as I20 said. So I would propose the addition of21 that sentence, just to make clear that that's22 our view.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: And can you read2 it again a little more slowly?3 MR. SCHROEDER: The GPII, though4 it may foster access, does not mitigate the5 need for implementation of accessibility6 policies.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Does not mitigate8 the --9 MR. MARSHALL: Need to implement.10 MR. SCHROEDER: The need to11 implement, would be fine, accessibility12 policies.13 MR. MARSHALL: Accessibility14 policies. Okay. Got it.15 MR. SCHROEDER: I guess I would16 move that as --17 MR. MARSHALL: Move the18 amendment.19 MR. SCHROEDER: I don't know if I20 can move that as a friendly-amendment, since21 I made the motion. I suppose I can.22 CHAIR BERLYN: Chris and Mark, do1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 you accept that as a friendly-amendment?2 MR. BAKER: Yes.3 MR. SCHROEDER: Okay. If they4 do.5 CHAIR BERLYN: It's accepted as a6 friendly-amendment. Sounds good.7 MR. SCHROEDER: All right. Then8 we can -- any other discussion?9 CHAIR BERLYN: May foster, okay.10 Further discussion? Mitsi?11 MS. HERRERA: Can I offer a12 friendly-amendment to the Paul? Could you13 move that sentence to the second -- to become14 the second sentence and then add the word,15 something like nonetheless or nevertheless to16 start the third sentence?17 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, I would have18 no problem with that. Thank you. Good19 suggestion.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Chris? Chris?21 MR. BAKER: Can you hear me?22 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Now, I can.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. BAKER: Now you can. I don't2 know. I mean, I think it's you need an3 explanation of what it is before you start4 saying what it does not do. That would be my5 only -- I mean, I'm fine with the change. I6 just wonder if it makes more sense, it's more7 readable if you talk about what it does than8 what it doesn't do?9 MS. HERRERA: I mean, can we make10 it, however, the GPII does not, whatever you11 had, mitigate the need for? It just seems12 odd it says though it may foster access in13 the middle of it. But it's 3:50 and it's not14 bad, so if people are fine with it, I'm happy15 to withdraw my friendly --16 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, I think it17 works either way. The way I'm looking at it,18 I don't think it really -- it doesn't strike19 me as difficult, because it's so short.20 MR. BAKER: Right, right.21 CHAIR BERLYN: So I think you get22 the point either way, the way I look at it.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. HERRERA: Then to simplify2 things, I'll just withdraw my --3 CHAIR BERLYN: Your friendly --4 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. That works.5 MS. HERRERA: I'll withdraw it.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right.7 So we have a friendly-amendment that has been8 accepted. We have a motion and a second.9 Further discussion? 10 Seeing none -- oh, Chris?11 MR. BAKER: I just wanted to12 thank Clayton Lewis who sort of came up and13 brought this idea to our attention for doing14 it. And I didn't know he would be getting15 off the Committee, but I want to thank him.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Yes.17 PARTICIPANT: It would be a great18 good-bye gift to Clayton.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.20 PARTICIPANT: A very appropriate21 one.22 CHAIR BERLYN: The Clayton Lewis1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 recommendation. Okay. Thank you, Broadband2 Working Group. Oh, call the question.3 All those in favor of this4 recommendation say aye.5 ALL: Aye.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Opposed?7 Abstaining? Excellent.8 MR. MARSHALL: No abstentions?9 CHAIR BERLYN: No abstentions.10 This is a no abstentions day.11 Okay. Universal Service Group?12 MS. GARCIA: We really have13 nothing to report.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Nothing to report.15 No recommendations this time. Thank you,16 Cecilia.17 Okay. That is it for our working18 group reports.19 Now, we have another important20 item that came out of our morning, this21 morning. Sorry, Rick, I know it's22 challenging to see each other there.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 We have another item from our2 morning from our report for -- about the3 Consumer Complaints process. As you heard4 this morning, they are working on a reform of5 the Consumer Complaints process and they are6 looking to the Consumer Advisory Committee7 for some help and they laid out a couple of8 areas where they would like some feedback.9 So what we would like to do is to10 setup a Task Force that would help with this11 process over the next two months to give the12 FCC some feedback. And hopefully it wouldn't13 require too many meetings, because we don't14 want to add to the meetings that are going to15 be required for this.16 But the way I see it, we probably17 need a meeting at the beginning to sort of18 organize ourselves, find out what exactly we19 were going to look at and do. And then a20 meeting after we take a look at what the FCC21 wants us to do to get together and discuss it22 and provide some feedback.1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 We also may, as a result of this,2 want to write up a recommendation to the FCC3 based on our findings.4 And the perfect timing for that5 would be our special meeting, so we would6 have time. Perhaps the time would work out7 to do that.8 So what we want to do is to setup9 a Task Force. And one of the things that10 this Task Force would do is to test this new11 -- test the FCC's Consumer Complaint system.12 So we would test it each individually, do13 that on our own and provide feedback and14 perhaps they would develop some sort of15 response form that we would be able to use to16 give feedback on it and also come up with17 some other ideas and feedback for them.18 So there is a couple of different19 things that we would do for them and,20 generally, help them get on the right path21 with this Consumer Complaint Reform.22 So what I would like to do with1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the Task Force is have people volunteer, who2 are willing to do this. I think it's a3 really good opportunity for the CAC to4 provide direct input into this process, but I5 want to do it just on a volunteer process.6 I don't think it will be all that7 time-consuming. As I mentioned, two8 meetings. I don't know whether they will be9 maybe in-person and on the phone. We will10 see how that works. Two meetings, possibly11 three, but hopefully no more than two. And12 then the time that it would take you just to13 really try out the Consumer Complaint14 process.15 So Scott and I will send16 something around in the next week or so17 asking for volunteers to serve on this Task18 Force. And we will try not to make it too19 huge, but, you know, a good group who are20 willing to roll up their sleeves and do this21 with us.22 So I hope that you will1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 participate. Okay. Did I miss anything?2 MR. MARSHALL: Comments from the3 public?4 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Now, we have5 comments from the public. Did I miss6 anything on the complaint?7 MR. MARSHALL: No, no, I think8 you got it.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Very good.10 Finally, are there any members -- anyone from11 the public who have any comments for the CAC?12 I didn't get any emails, I don't think,13 Scott.14 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. Then a15 motion to adjourn.16 CHAIR BERLYN: So again, we are17 going to meet in October. We will get the18 exact date out to you as soon as we confirm19 availability of this meeting room and make20 sure that we don't have any conflicts with21 dates.22 And I think that's it. Any1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 further comments from anyone around the room?2 MR. MARSHALL: Debbie, did you3 raise any dates with the group at all?4 CHAIR BERLYN: I didn't. Do you5 want me -- did you check the availability for6 that one date?7 MR. MARSHALL: Well, let's --8 could we run by October 19th?9 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. One date10 that we are --11 MR. MARSHALL: And get a quick12 reaction.13 CHAIR BERLYN: One day we are14 looking at is October 19th, which is a15 Friday. Okay. It doesn't --16 MR. MARSHALL: Nobody is running17 out the door screaming.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Nobody is19 screaming.20 MS. KEARNEY: It doesn't work for21 me.22 CHAIR BERLYN: People are1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 checking. It doesn't work for Julie.2 MS. LEECH: That would be tight3 for me.4 CHAIR BERLYN: It would be tight5 for Irene. It's not good for Lise. Okay.6 We have two. It's not good for you, Ed? Not7 good for Ed, oh. All right. Now we've got--8 MR. MARSHALL: Three.9 CHAIR BERLYN: -- three.10 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. 11 CHAIR BERLYN: What happened with12 the 26th?13 MR. MARSHALL: It's not14 available. This room is not available.15 CHAIR BERLYN: The room is not16 available on the 26th. Well, we will get17 back to you. 18 MR. MARSHALL: Right.19 CHAIR BERLYN: It may have to20 stick with the 19th, but I'll get back to you21 to see if the date changes. But it will be22 -- we are hoping to stick with the month of1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 October, so that it is not too far from now.2 But also look for that special date between3 now and October for our special meeting.4 So do I have a motion to adjourn?5 Oh, I don't know, I got a couple of hands on6 that. Motion to adjourn. Do I hear a7 second?8 PARTICIPANT: Second.9 CHAIR BERLYN: And all those in10 favor?11 ALL: Aye.12 CHAIR BERLYN: All right.13 MR. MARSHALL: Thanks, everybody.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks, everyone.15 (Whereupon, the meeting was16 concluded at 3:59 p.m.)1718192021221 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 11 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com

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