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1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 3 + + + + + 4 5 FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION 6 7 + + + + + 8 9 CONSUMER ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING 10 11 + + + + + 12 13 FRIDAY, 14 JUNE 15, 2012 15 16 + + + + + 17 18 The Advisory Committee met in the 19 Commission Meeting room, 445 12th Street, 20 S.W., Washington, D.C., at 9:00 a.m., Debra 21 Berlyn, CAC Chairperson, presiding. 22 23 PRESENT: 24 25 DEBRA BERLYN, Chairperson 26 CHARLIE ACQUARD, National Association of 27 State Utility Consumer Advocates 28 CHRIS BAKER, AARP 29 ED BARTHOLME, Call for Action 30 ANN BOBECK, National Association of 31 Broadcasters 32 RICK CHESSEN, National Cable and 33 Telecommunications Association 34 MARY CRESPY, Verizon Communications, Inc. 35 MARK DeFALCO, Appalachian Regional Commission 36 CECILIA GARCIA, Benton Foundation 37 LISE HAMLIN, Hearing Loss Association of 38 America 39 MITSUKO HERRERA, Montgomery County, MD, 40 Office of Cable & Broadband Services 41 JULIE KEARNEY, Consumer Electronics Assn. 42 REBECCA LADEW, Speech Communication 43 Assistance by Telephone, Inc. 44 FERNANDO R. LAGUARDA, Time Warner Cable

2 3 NEAL R. GROSS 4 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 5 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 6 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 LUISA LANCETTI, T-Mobile USA, Inc. 2 IRENE E. LEECH, Consumer Federation of 3 America 4 CLAYTON LEWIS, Coleman Institute for 5 Cognitive Disabilities 6 MIA MARTINEZ, National Asian American 7 Coalition 8 KEN McELDOWNEY, Consumer Action 9 ART NEILL, Utility Consumer's Action 10 Network 11 STEPHEN POCIASK, American Consumer 12 Institute 13 STEPHANIE PODEY, National Cable and 14 Telecommunication Association 15 PAUL SCHROEDER, American Foundation for 16 the Blind 17 CLAUDE STOUT, Deaf and Hard of Hearing 18 Consumer Advocacy Network 19 BARRY UMANSKY, Digital Policy Institute 20 DOROTHY WALT, Helen Keller National 21 Center for Deaf-Blind Youth & Adults 22 OLIVIA WEIN, National Consumer Law Center 23 24 ALSO PRESENT: 25 AJIT PAI, FCC Commissioner 26 MIGNON CLYBURN, FCC Commissioner 27 JESSICA ROSENWORCEL, FCC Commissioner 28 ROBERT ALDERFER, Incentive Auctions Team, 29 Wireless Telecommunications Bureau 30 JAMES BIRD, Senior Attorney, Head of 31 Transaction Team, Office of General 32 Counsel 33 SHARON BOWERS, Chief Consumer Complaints and 34 Inquiries Division, CGB 35 DEBORAH BRODERSON, Legal Advisor, CGB 36 MICHAEL CAROWITZ, Acting Chief of Staff, CGB 37 ELIZABETH CROCKER, Executive Director, 38 Foundation for Rural Services 39 THOMAS KOUTSKY, Chief Policy Counsel, 40 Connected Nation 41 SCOTT MARSHALL, FCC 42 KRIS MONTEITH, Acting Bureau Chief, FCC 43 MARK STONE, Deputy Bureau Chief, CGB 44 KAREN PELTZ STRAUSS, Deputy Bureau Chief, CGB 1

1 T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S 2 3 WELCOME/CALL TO ORDER: 4 Debra Berlyn, Chairperson...... 5 5 6 INTRODUCTIONS:...... 6 7 NEXT MEETING DATE IN OCTOBER:...... 11 8 9 BUREAU UPDATE: 10 Kris Monteith, Acting Bureau Chief.. .13 11 CRAMMING AND PSAP: 12 Mark Stone, Deputy Bureau Chief...... 18 13 DISABILITY ISSUES: 14 Karen Peltz Strauss, D. Bur. Chief.. .23 15 CONSUMER OUTREACH: 16 Roger Goldblatt, CBG...... 32 17 Michael Carowitz, Act. Chief Staff.. .38 18 QUESTIONS/DISCUSSION:...... 39 19 20 REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER J. ROSENWORCEL:....46 21 Questions/Comments:...... 49 22 23 FCC INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: 24 Debra Berlyn, Chairperson...... 53 25 Joyce Dickerson, SC Councilwoman.....56 26 Marlin Blizinsky, V. Chair ...... 61 27 Tom Sloan, Representative KS...... 62 28 Ken Fellman, attorney...... 64 29 Radhika Karmarkar, NYC...... 64 30 31 CONSUMER COMPLAINT REFORM: 32 Deborah Broderson, CGB...... 68/91 33 Sharon Bowers, CCCID...... 69/89 34 Questions/Discussion:...... 93/185 35 36 REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER M. CLYBURN:...... 79 37 Questions/Comments:...... 86 38 39 REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER A. PAI:...... 113 40 Questions/Comments:...... 116 41 42 BROADBAND ADOPTION: 43 Thomas Koutsky, Connected Nation....127 44 Elizabeth Crocker, FRS...... 146

2 3 NEAL R. GROSS 4 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 5 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 6 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S 2 3 BROADBAND ADOPTION (Continued): 4 Cecilia Garcia, Benton Foundation.. .155 5 Questions/Discussion:...... 163 6 7 SPECTRUM, WIRELESS TELECOMMUNICATIONS BUREAU: 8 Robert Alderfer...... 196 9 Questions/Discussion:...... 210 10 11 FCC WEBSITE - DISCUSSION: 12 Debra Berlyn, Chairperson...... 217 13 Ed Bartholme...... 218 14 Discussion:...... 221 15 16 AFTER THE MERGER: WHAT'S FCC'S ROLE?: 17 James Bird, OGC...... 241 18 Questions/Discussion:...... 257 19 20 WORKING GROUPS: 21 Disability: 22 Lise Hamlin...... 271 23 Rebecca Ladew...... 274 24 Media: 25 Barry Umansky...... 276 26 Recommendation 1 (EAS):...... 279 27 Motion/Vote to Approve:...... 282 28 Recommendation 2 (Spectrum):...... 283 29 Vote to Refer Back/Hold Off:...... 313 30 Consumer: 31 Ed Bartholme...... 314 32 Table Recommendation:...... 316 33 Broadband: 34 Mark DeFalco...... 317 35 Recommendation 1:...... 318 36 Vote to Accept:...... 325 37 38 SETUP TASK FORCE FOR FCC FEEDBACK:...... 327 39 40 ADJOURN: 41 Debra Berlyn, Chairperson...... 329 42 43 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S

2 8:52 a.m.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Good morning,

4 everyone, and welcome to the Consumer

5 Advisory Committee meeting. Thank you all

6 for those of you who got here a little early

7 this morning and we were able to get your

8 coffee. I appreciate that. And we have a

9 very full agenda.

10 Once again, Scott has done a

11 fantastic job of pulling together this

12 program. I helped a little and so did some

13 of you, so thank you very much.

14 But we do have a really good

15 program and you will see during the course of

16 the day. And we will try and keep as much as

17 we can on schedule, but we do have some

18 special guests joining us this morning, as

19 you will see from the agenda.

20 The first thing I would like to

21 do is to go around and introduce ourselves.

22 We have some of you who may be here for the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 first time, if you are substituting for

2 someone else. So let's introduce ourselves.

3 I'm Debra Berlyn, Chair of the

4 CAC, and representing the National Consumers

5 League. And let's go around to Barry.

6 MR. UMANSKY: Good morning. I'm

7 Barry Umansky of the Digital Policy Institute

8 at Ball State University. And my colleague,

9 Robert Yadon, is here as well.

10 MR. POCIASK: And I'm Steve

11 Pociask. I'm with the American Consumer

12 Institute.

13 MR. BARTHOLME: I'm Ed Bartholme

14 with Call For Action.

15 MS. WALT: Good morning,

16 everyone. I'm Dorothy Walt. I'm a Regional

17 Representative for the Helen Keller National

18 Center, the Northwest Region. I'm happy to

19 see everyone this morning.

20 MR. LAGUARDA: Good morning. My

21 name is Fernando Laguarda and I'm

22 representing Time-Warner Cable.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. BOBECK: Good morning,

2 everyone. I'm Ann Bobeck from the National

3 Association of Broadcasters. And I just want

4 to welcome also our three summer interns who

5 are here. So good morning.

6 MS. PODEY: Good morning. I'm

7 Stephanie Podey from NCTA. I'm an alternate

8 for Rick Chessen.

9 MS. LANCETTI: Good morning, all.

10 Louis Lancetti here with T-Mobile and also

11 with an intern in the audience, Aveny Bell.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: If you all could

13 remember as you go around to wait for the

14 mikes to come on. Thanks.

15 MR. BERGMANN: Hi, I'm Scott

16 Bergmann on behalf of CTIA. And we represent

17 global wireless providers and equipment and

18 handset manufacturers and applications

19 developers that bring wireless products to

20 consumers.

21 MS. LADEW: Hello. I'm Rebecca

22 Ladew and representing the Speech

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Communications Assistance by Telephone, Inc.

2 I would also like to add a happy Father's Day

3 for all of you who are fathers.

4 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin. I'm

5 representing Hearing Loss Association of

6 America.

7 MR. STOUT: Hello. Claude Stout

8 and I'm with Deaf and Hard of Hearing

9 Consumer Advocacy Network.

10 MS. MARTINEZ: Good morning. Mia

11 Martinez with the National Asian American

12 Coalition.

13 MR. DeFALCO: Thank you. Mark

14 DeFalco with the Appalachian Regional

15 Commission.

16 MS. CRESPY: Good morning. I'm

17 Mary Crespy with Verizon.

18 MS. GARCIA: Good morning Cecilia

19 Garcia with The Benton Foundation.

20 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Did we miss

21 anyone? Ken, did you introduce yourself?

22 MR. McELDOWNEY: I didn't because

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I didn't have a name tag. I'm Ken McEldowney

2 from Consumer Action.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: And?

4 MR. MARSHALL: And I'm Scott

5 Marshall.

6 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Excellent.

7 And we do have some -- do we have anyone now

8 on the telephone?

9 MR. LEWIS: Yes. This is Clayton

10 Lewis, Coleman Institute.

11 CHAIR BERLYN: Clayton Lewis.

12 Okay. Great. Anyone else?

13 MR. NEILL: Hi, this is Art

14 Neill, good morning from the west coast,

15 representing Utility's Action Network.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. And anyone

17 else? Okay.

18 MS. HAMLIN: Could you repeat

19 those two names, because they didn't come

20 across and I could not hear them.

21 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. Clayton

22 Lewis is on the line and Art Neill.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Okay. Well, welcome everybody.

2 The first order of business, I would like to

3 thank NCTA for providing our meals this

4 morning. So, Stephanie and Rick Chessen,

5 thank you very much. We appreciate that.

6 And our first speaker Kris

7 Monteith, the Bureau Chief, Acting Bureau

8 Chief for Consumer and Governmental Affairs

9 will be down momentarily. So that we will

10 get started shortly.

11 Yes, well, Scott, we can do that.

12 And meanwhile, I want to know if anyone has

13 any questions about our program today? As

14 you know, we will be having most of our

15 program sessions this morning and then we do

16 have our working group session meeting right

17 after lunch, soon after lunch. Actually, not

18 right after lunch. And then we have our

19 recommendations that will be discussed after

20 that.

21 So hopefully you all will be able

22 to stay. I know Ken has a flight towards the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 end of the day, but other than that, I hope

2 that you all will be able to stay for the

3 full program. It is important that we have

4 your full participation for the discussions

5 on the recommendations. We have some very

6 interesting ones today and those are really

7 important.

8 Does anyone have any questions?

9 Yes, Lise?

10 MS. HAMLIN: Yes, I just had a

11 quick question here. Well, I noticed that it

12 doesn't talk about a next meeting.

13 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. Yes, we --

14 and it's a very good question and something

15 that I did want to discuss at some point

16 today. So I will discuss that right now.

17 We do have a next meeting planned

18 for the month of October. And Scott is

19 working with logistics to find out

20 availability for here in the meeting room.

21 Most likely another Friday, those are the

22 best days to get availability here. And also

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 we traditionally try and make them for

2 Fridays.

3 So we are looking at a Friday in

4 October for the next meeting.

5 I think some of you may know

6 this, but perhaps not all of you know this,

7 that the CAC has a two-year charter and our

8 charter actually ends in November of this

9 year, which means that October is our last

10 meeting of this Consumer Advisory Committee.

11 So Scott and I may talk a little

12 bit more about that later, but that -- you

13 know, it's one of those things where it comes

14 as a bit of a surprise because we actually

15 started with our first meeting the August

16 after we would have officially been

17 chartered. So it gave us just a little bit

18 over a year.

19 So we will talk a little bit more

20 about that later.

21 I see Kris is here. Perfect

22 timing. We are ready for you. So thank you

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 very much and, Kris Monteith, Acting Bureau

2 Chief. Thank you for joining us.

3 MS. MONTEITH: Yes, absolutely.

4 Good morning, everyone. It's great to see

5 you here. And we certainly appreciate your

6 coming today and helping the Commission to

7 advance its Consumer Protection and

8 Empowerment agenda.

9 Since we last met in February,

10 the Bureau has had a busy time. Lots of

11 things going on and I will just mention a

12 couple of the things that we have been

13 working on at a high level. And I did the

14 smart thing and brought the experts with me

15 who can address them in more depth.

16 So in a nutshell, over the course

17 of the last few months, we have released two

18 significant Commission level items on

19 important issues Cramming and PSAP Do-Not-

20 Call and several Bureau-level items on

21 equally important issues, such as TRS and

22 Caller ID.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 We have taken some important

2 steps towards launching the National Deaf

3 Blind Equipment Distribution Program and

4 sought nominations for the second annual

5 Chairman's Award for Advancement and

6 Accessibility.

7 We released our Consumer

8 Complaint Quarterly Report numbers of the

9 first quarter of 2012 and the second quarter

10 will follow shortly.

11 We have exhibited major industry

12 and consumer conferences to educate consumers

13 on key telecom issues. In conjunction with

14 other parts of the Agency, we worked with

15 industry on Consumer Protection issues, such

16 as stolen and lost cell phones to address

17 those issues in a voluntary way and issued

18 new FAQ sheets and guides to educate

19 consumers.

20 We have undertaken a number of

21 important listening and consultation sessions

22 with Native Nations and have done a soft

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 launch of our new Native Learning Labs. And

2 we have hosted our fourth state and local

3 webinar.

4 These are just a few of the

5 things we have been working on. It has been

6 a very busy few months, a very interesting

7 few months for me personally and

8 professionally and, of course, there are lots

9 of things going on at the Commission outside

10 of CGB, which will be a part of your agenda

11 and discussion, we'll touch on a couple of

12 those.

13 I know that you have previously

14 talked with Josh Gottheimer, the Chairman

15 Senior Counselor, on a wide range of issues

16 and most particularly broadband and the

17 public/private initiatives effort the

18 Commission has going on.

19 Today, you will continue the

20 discussion on broadband adoption with outside

21 advocacy organizations and, of course, your

22 own member, The Benton Foundation.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Broadband availability and

2 adoption is such a critical issue for the

3 country and the Commission, reiterated again

4 with yesterday's executive order, removing

5 barriers to broadband infrastructure

6 deployment on federal lands and buildings and

7 making it easier to deploy high-speed

8 Internet across the country.

9 I hope you will share with the

10 Commission your thoughts and recommendations

11 on how we can address these types of barriers

12 faced by many communities across the nation.

13 The Spectrum is another critical

14 issue facing the country as the Commission

15 looks at ways to make sure that we use this

16 finite resource efficiently and effectively

17 and properly allocate Spectrum among many

18 competing interests. Please, help us ensure

19 that the interests of consumers are not lost

20 in the mix.

21 With respect to mergers, we are

22 all very aware that consumers have interests

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 at stake when mergers take place. There is a

2 role for the CAC to play in helping the

3 Commission to monitor merger conditions,

4 which we often impose as these transactions

5 move forward, and I'm happy to see you

6 consider this topic.

7 On Universal Service, thank you

8 very much for your extensive recommendations.

9 We know that the Universal Service Working

10 Group is engaged with our outreach team as we

11 begin spreading the word regarding our new

12 Lifeline roles.

13 Later this morning, you will be

14 hearing from folks in CGB that are working on

15 our consumer complaint process. We are

16 hoping to make changes that will make the

17 process more transparent and consumer-

18 friendly, which will allow us to better

19 utilize the information we receive from

20 consumers in our rulemakings.

21 We look forward to your

22 recommendations about this topic, which

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 really encompasses many of CGB's and the

2 Commission's systems and processes, including

3 our telephone IVR system, our website and, of

4 course, the complaint forms themselves.

5 Finally, I note that you are

6 addressing other timely issues, including

7 EAS, which has been updated for the first

8 time since the 1960s and the issue of third-

9 party wireless shutdowns.

10 In short, it has been busy, lots

11 on our plates. I'll turn it over to Mark and

12 Karen and Roger Goldblatt is also here to

13 address our outreach efforts and we would

14 certainly like your input on some of those

15 issues as well.

16 Again, we greatly appreciate your

17 sharing your time and your expertise with the

18 Commission. Mark?

19 MR. STONE: Good morning. I want

20 to highlight for you two of the major items

21 that our Policy Division has accomplished

22 since you met last February.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 First, I want to discuss the new

2 Rules on Cramming. And second is an NPRM to

3 begin establishing a Do-Not-Call Registry for

4 public safety answering points.

5 First, Cramming. I mentioned at

6 your last meeting that the Commission had

7 proposed rules to help consumers avoid

8 Cramming, which is the placement of

9 unauthorized charges on phone bills.

10 On April 27th, the Commission

11 adopted new rules to address Cramming and

12 sought further comment on potential further

13 steps to help consumers. I want to highlight

14 a couple of the things the Commission did.

15 First, the Commission required

16 landline telephone companies to notify

17 subscribers at the point of sale on each bill

18 and on their websites of the options to block

19 third-party charges from their landline

20 telephone bills, if the carrier offers that

21 option.

22 Second, it strengthens the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Commission's requirement that third-party

2 charges be separated from the landline

3 telephone company's charges on phone bills.

4 And third, it asks whether the

5 Commission should adopt additional

6 protections, such as requiring landline

7 telephone companies to get consumer consent

8 before placing those third-party charges on

9 their telephone bills, if the company already

10 offers to block such charges.

11 And fourth, it asked about

12 Cramming for commercial and mobile radio

13 service, such as wireless telephone companies

14 or providers of Voice-Over-Internet-Protocol

15 service. The Commission said it would

16 monitor complaints from consumers of these

17 services.

18 Comments on the further notice

19 are due June 25th and reply comments on July

20 9th.

21 The second major item Kris

22 mentioned that we have been working on is a

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Do-Not-Call Registry for public safety

2 answering points. The Commission adopted

3 NPRM on this on May 21st.

4 First, a bit of background. A

5 provision of the Middle Class Tax Relief and

6 Job Creation Act of 2012 requires the

7 Commission to initiate within 90 days of

8 enactment a proceeding to create a

9 specialized Do-Not-Call Registry for public

10 safety answering points.

11 This provision addresses concerns

12 about the use of automatic dialing equipment

13 or robocalls which can generate large numbers

14 of phone calls in a short time, tie up public

15 safety lines, divert critical responder

16 resources away from emergency services and

17 impede access by the public to emergency

18 services.

19 The NPRM initiated a proceeding

20 to establish a registry that allows PSAPs to

21 register telephone numbers on a PSAP-specific

22 Do-Not-Call List and prohibit the use of

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 automatic dialing equipment to contact those

2 registry numbers.

3 The PSAP Registry would build

4 upon the existing protections under the

5 Telephone Consumer Protection Act against the

6 use of auto dialers to contact emergency

7 numbers by precluding operators of automatic

8 dialing equipment from using such equipment

9 to contact any number included on the

10 registry.

11 The NPRM seeks comment on the

12 structure and operation of the proposed

13 registry setting forth several proposals.

14 The NPRM asks about the most efficient means

15 of establishing a registry, the process for

16 accessing the registry by operators of that

17 equipment, safeguards to protect numbers in

18 the registry from unauthorized disclosure or

19 dissemination, rules to prohibit the use of

20 automatic dialing equipment to contact

21 numbers on the registry and enforcement

22 provisions contained in the Tax Relief Act.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Among the specific questions the

2 NPRM asked is which PSAP numbers should be

3 included on the registry? Is the FTC's

4 approach to the National Do-Not-Call Registry

5 a useful and effective model for the PSAP

6 Registry? What should be the process for

7 verifying and updating PSAP numbers in the

8 registry?

9 How should the registry be made

10 available to operators of automatic dialing

11 equipment? And finally, does the

12 Communications Act and the Middle Class Tax

13 Relief Act give the Commission authority to

14 propose fines for a first violation of the

15 Act's provision or must the Commission first

16 issue a citation to a non-regulated violator

17 as required by the Standard Enforcement

18 Provisions of Section 503 of the

19 Communications Act?

20 In closing, I want to thank all

21 of you for your hard work on these key

22 consumer issues. It really does make a

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 difference both to CGB and the rest of the

2 Commission. Thanks again.

3 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Hi. I'm

4 Karen Strauss. It's great to see all of you

5 again. I'm going to give you an update on

6 all that we have been doing on the disability

7 issues.

8 The first major thing is

9 Internet-based captioning. As many of you

10 know, in January we released rules that are

11 going to require that all television programs

12 shown with captions on TV must contain those

13 captions when moved to the Internet.

14 And I believe that I already

15 talked to you about this last time, but just

16 as a quick review, the rules are going to be

17 going into effect beginning this coming

18 September. So I'm not sure you are meeting

19 before then, so I just thought I would remind

20 you of that.

21 And that particular set of rules

22 cover pre-recorded programming that is not

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 edited for Internet distribution. Once those

2 programs are shown on TV with captions, when

3 they are shown for Internet distribution,

4 they will have to be captioned as of

5 September 30th.

6 March 30, 2013, the rules apply

7 to live and near-live programming. Near-live

8 is programs such as late night programming.

9 And on September 30, 2013, the rules are

10 extended to pre-recorded programming edited

11 for Internet distribution.

12 There are different rules that

13 are a little further out for archival

14 programming, that is programming that is

15 already in an Internet distributor's library.

16 After those programs are shown on TV, those

17 distributors have a little bit of extra time.

18 That's the first item in CVA.

19 The 21st Century Communications and Video

20 Accessibility Act that I wanted to mention.

21 The second item is video

22 description. As you probably know, many of

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 you are already familiar with a lot of this.

2 Our rules on video description are going to

3 go into effect this July. It's very exciting

4 for the blind and visually impaired

5 community.

6 These rules were originally

7 adopted by the Commission in the year 2000

8 and they were overturned by a Federal Court

9 for lack of authority. In the CVAA Congress

10 instructed the Commission to reinstate the

11 rules. And so these rules are now being

12 reinstated.

13 And they will apply to the four

14 National Broadcast Networks, that's ABC, CBS,

15 NBC, FOX, and their affiliates in the top 25

16 markets, as well as the top five cable

17 channels, and that includes USA, Disney, TNT,

18 TBS, Nickelodeon and Nick at Nite.

19 The rules are not as

20 comprehensive as our Closed Caption Rules.

21 They require only four hours of primetime or

22 children's programming per week, that is

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2 However, the FCC has additional authority to

3 conduct an inquiry on the benefits, uses and

4 availability and costs of the rules one year

5 after the phase-in and can expand the rules,

6 if necessary.

7 The next item that I want to

8 mention is the National Deaf/Blind Equipment

9 Distribution Program. That program is also

10 going into effect this July. That program --

11 Kris mentioned that program. That program is

12 going to distribute through local entities

13 equipment, telecommunications and advanced

14 communication service equipment to low-income

15 individuals who are deaf/blind.

16 They have to meet the Federal

17 Poverty Guideline level that we are using as

18 400 percent of the poverty guideline level

19 will qualify them. They also need to meet a

20 definition set by the statute or actually set

21 by the National Helen Keller Statute.

22 These individuals as well can get

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 assessments, training. The program will

2 cover warranties, outreach and all other

3 associated related costs that are reasonable

4 will be covered by the program.

5 There will be one program in

6 every state or locality that will be

7 responsible for conducting this distribution.

8 We are on the cusp of announcing the

9 certified entities. We had issued a public

10 notice a few months back seeking applications

11 and did a thorough review of those

12 applications to make sure that each entity

13 would be qualified to comply with all of our

14 rules under this program.

15 I should mention it's a pilot

16 program. We have authorized it for two to

17 three years, so that we can really figure out

18 how the program needs to work. There are

19 several reporting requirements by these

20 various entities. We are going to be

21 reviewing those very carefully to make sure

22 that the program is meeting the needs of the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 community that it is intended to serve.

2 In all, there will be 53 entities

3 that are certified. We also just recently

4 announced the National Outreach Coordinator.

5 It's the Perkins School for the Blind in

6 conjunction with the Helen Keller National

7 Center and FableVision. They have been

8 awarded $500,000 per each year of the pilot

9 program to conduct national outreach.

10 So we are set. We are almost set

11 to begin very soon and you will be hearing

12 more about that in some public notices.

13 The next thing that I want to

14 mention is the work that we have been doing

15 on Next Generation 911. Many of you are

16 already familiar with some of this, but it

17 has been very, very exciting. We have a

18 Notice of Proposed Rulemaking that has been

19 pending since September on NG911 focused

20 mostly on text to 911.

21 Our Emergency Access Advisory

22 Committee that was created under the CVA has

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 been meeting regularly. In 2011, it met

2 monthly per the requirements of the Act.

3 Now, it has been meeting more infrequently,

4 but still meeting.

5 The group produced or the

6 committee produced a survey covering and

7 analyzing, approximately, 3,000 -- well,

8 10,000 people responded to the survey. 3,000

9 completed surveys by people with disabilities

10 reporting on how they access emergency

11 services.

12 And the product of that survey

13 and the product of the committee's report

14 eventually led to a resolution that people

15 with disabilities wanted access to 911 via

16 text. And tremendous progress has been made

17 in that area.

18 Since then, Verizon and AT&T have

19 announced that they are going to be piloting

20 Text to 911 programs. And so we are going to

21 be working with these companies in order to

22 make sure that outreach is done and our

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Consumer Outreach Office will be

2 orchestrating some meetings shortly to

3 coordinate efforts between consumers,

4 industry, PSAPs and other relevant

5 stakeholders.

6 Just really quickly, I want to

7 mention that in October we also have to

8 submit to Congress a report on how we have

9 been doing with respect to achieving

10 accessibility of advanced communication

11 services and telecommunication services. We

12 are also continuing to work on our

13 clearinghouse, our accessibility

14 clearinghouse that provides products and

15 services, information about accessible

16 products and services to the community.

17 And we just recently released a

18 public notice seeking comment on our -- the

19 report that we received from our Video

20 Programming Access Advisory Committee on

21 making devices compatible with video

22 description and providing emergency access

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2 accessible to people with -- who are blind

3 and visually impaired.

4 Those are two requirements --

5 that's emergency information, in this

6 context, I'm talking about is on television.

7 Those are two issues that are dealt with in

8 the video programming section of the CVAA and

9 we are getting comments back and replies are

10 due on June 19th, because we are going to

11 have to be issuing rules on that.

12 And I know I have made your

13 brains fried, at this point, so I'm going to

14 stop talking. But you can see that we have a

15 lot to do. I'm going to be back later on for

16 the disability group. Cheryl King is going

17 to be joining you initially and then I'm

18 going to be stepping in a little bit later

19 on. So I can fill you in on more of the

20 details.

21 MS. MONTEITH: Thanks very much,

22 Karen. Now, Roger, if you would, please,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 talk a little bit about some of the consumer

2 outreach issues and, particularly, where we

3 could use some help?

4 MR. GOLDBLATT: Okay. Thank you.

5 First of all, I wanted to start with thank

6 you and then I'll end with a request.

7 Many of you have been generous

8 enough to invite us to exhibit at your

9 conventions. We did CS and CTA, NAD in the

10 past few months. And I would say you really

11 ran us ragged. I say the two or three people

12 we have had at the booth had been busy

13 nonstop.

14 It so gratifying to have people

15 come to us and say thank you for being here.

16 And they come out and they bring their little

17 ragged list of questions they have for FCC.

18 And then, of course, you always have, no

19 matter where we go for the past 12 years I

20 have been here, the HAM operators that come

21 and want to show their little HAM licenses.

22 But outreach is really

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 fascinating here, because FCC has a lot of

2 lawyers and a lot of engineers. I mean, we

3 come out with a lot of great rules and

4 regulations that really help consumers. But

5 if you ask your parents or grandparents or

6 niece or nephews or children or neighbors

7 what some of these words like the

8 viewability, cramming, broadband, Spectrum,

9 eRate, Universal Service, robocalls,

10 billshock, VoIP, LPFM, LPTV, they won't know

11 what you are talking about.

12 We have people that come to us

13 and they go, you know, I go into McDonalds

14 and I see this little sign, what does that

15 mean? And we say well, that means they have

16 wireless. And they go really? Or they

17 wonder about the QR Code. What does that

18 mean? I say well, you can take your

19 Smartphone and you can get to a website. And

20 they go really?

21 So what we try to do, as far as

22 outreach, is to kind of be the bridge, be the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 conduit and say, okay, FCC does an awful lot

2 to help consumers and we will try to explain

3 to you what it is and what we do.

4 And that's why they come with

5 these questions. And we really do an awful

6 lot, because we have groups that come in and

7 we say well, what does FCC mean to you? What

8 do you think FCC does? And I would say 99 to

9 100 percent will say indecency and obscenity.

10 To tell you the truth, that's like, you know,

11 very, very little percent of what we do, but

12 we do an awful lot to help consumers.

13 And we try to, because we are a

14 small band of people, concentrate on certain

15 areas. People with disabilities, people in

16 rural areas, minorities, African-Americans,

17 Asians, non-English-speaking people,

18 Hispanics, very, very important, seniors.

19 We find that a lot of seniors are

20 afraid to get onto broadband. It isn't

21 always a financial issue. It's just not

22 knowing what is going on. And I think you

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 have had people talk about our Connect to

2 Compete Program, because it's really

3 important. And we are trying to work pilot

4 programs around the country to get people to

5 understand how important it is to be on the

6 computer.

7 We are actually exhibiting next

8 week at the American Library Association,

9 because libraries are so important for people

10 who don't have computers. People who go look

11 for jobs on the computers. People who don't

12 have computers look at their emails. Kids

13 who don't have computers at home do their

14 homework. I mean, so we try to form

15 partnerships.

16 And what we try to do also is I

17 think we do a decent job, but we could do a

18 heck of a lot better job. You know, we work

19 on distracted driving. I don't know about

20 you, but I don't think we have done enough on

21 that.

22 You look and you see how many

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 people are still texting and are talking on

2 the phone while they are driving. You know,

3 that's an FCC issue. Almost for a small

4 Agency, we cut, probably impact everybody in

5 some aspect of their life, whether it be TV,

6 television, computers. You know, there are

7 so many aspects.

8 So what we would like to do, you

9 know, like I said, we are the face of the

10 FCC. We go and people ask us questions. FCC

11 like every other Federal Agency has budget

12 cuts. So we try to do the best we can. We

13 are experimenting with technology, ways we

14 can do things from here, but it does help

15 when we are out there and people come to us

16 and they have their questions.

17 So if you can help us come up

18 with ideas how can we impact? How can we

19 reach people? How can we translate? How can

20 we get the word out to people all over the

21 country?

22 We really -- any creative ideas

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that you have, we are open to. There pretty

2 much are no barriers as far as ideas. We

3 really are so enthusiastic. We really want

4 to get the word out. We love talking to

5 people. We love when they come and they say

6 thank you and by the way, I have a question.

7 And we will try to answer.

8 And that's our goal. We are not

9 experts, but we know who the experts are. So

10 to come to us, we get the answer and I think

11 a lot of times they are surprised because

12 like, you know, we are from the Government

13 and we're here to help you and we really are

14 there to help.

15 So like I said, I started with

16 thank you for those who have invited us and

17 we have worked with. And I know most of you.

18 I think of all of you as friends and

19 partners. So I guess I want to end with a

20 request.

21 Any ideas you have for how we can

22 outreach better, how we can partner better,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 how we can reach a lot of the under-served

2 communities that really need us or need to

3 know a lot of the programs that are

4 available, the Lifeline programs, the eRate

5 programs. There are so many good things the

6 FCC does and we really need your assistance.

7 So thank you very much.

8 MS. MONTEITH: I would like to

9 introduce my Acting Chief of Staff, the

10 Acting Chief of Staff for CGB, Michael

11 Carowitz.

12 MR. CAROWITZ: Hi. I just --

13 CHAIR BERLYN: You need the mike.

14 MR. CAROWITZ: Thanks. I just

15 wanted to say hello to everybody and let you

16 know that I'm here as a point of contact in

17 the CGB. If there is anything that you need

18 at any point, please, feel free to give me a

19 call. I can point you in the right direction

20 and get you acquainted with the right people.

21 And because I'm new, your

22 questions will help me learn my job just a

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2 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Questions?

3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. I guess I

4 continue to be very disappointed by the sort

5 of inability of the FCC to free-up money for

6 serious outreach. I really applaud the fact

7 that you want to try to reach low-income

8 consumers. You want to reach the people

9 who--for whom English is not the primary

10 language. But I think that as most of the

11 folks around this table will know, that takes

12 money.

13 And putting stuff on a website

14 doesn't do it. Going to National Conference

15 doesn't do it. You have got to work with the

16 actual agencies that are working with

17 consumers on a day-to-day basis.

18 And it's just it can -- it has

19 sort of been refrained that I and other

20 people on this Council have been saying for

21 years and years and years. And I have just

22 not seen a serious commitment in that area,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 whether it is on Lifeline or anything else.

2 There has to be printed materials. There has

3 to be money for distribution of them. There

4 has to be money for training. And we are not

5 talking -- you know, I would be happy just to

6 see a few $100,000 dollars in terms of

7 commitment by the Commission to actually

8 reach the people that you purport to help.

9 And I think that certainly going

10 to conferences and things like that, working

11 at the library is a small first step, but

12 it's a very tiny, tiny, tiny step. And I

13 think you really have to figure out how in a

14 tight budget era to free-up some money for

15 serious outreach with printed materials in

16 different languages.

17 You now, Consumer Action does it

18 with a very small budget, smaller than yours.

19 And I think other organizations around the

20 table do as well, as do many of the

21 companies.

22 I think the models are out there.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I just think that the FCC really has to get

2 serious and step up to the table.

3 MS. MONTEITH: I'm happy to hear

4 you say that, Ken, honestly, because I think

5 one of the issues as Roger was saying that we

6 really face is in an era of shrinking

7 budgets, is the consumer outreach function --

8 how is the consumer outreach function viewed?

9 And I think that the core group

10 of folks in CGB think it is a mission

11 critical function for the Commission. But

12 we, as Government Agencies, you know, face

13 shrinking budgets. So we would really

14 appreciate your help in -- on that issue to

15 say yes, it is important for the Commission

16 to get out there and actually have a face-to-

17 face conversation with consumers outside of

18 the, you know, proverbial beltway. So I

19 appreciate your comments in that regard.

20 MR. McELDOWNEY: Just a quick

21 follow-up to that. I don't think it's

22 necessary for the Commission to get out and

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2 Action uses a Train the Trainer model. We

3 train between 800 and 1,000 community group

4 staff a year around the country in terms of

5 how to successfully use our materials in the

6 community.

7 And the advantage of that is that

8 these are the agencies that work with

9 consumers on a day-to-day basis on a wide

10 range of issues in a wide range of languages.

11 We would go nuts if we wanted to try to reach

12 individual consumers.

13 But our 7,000 agencies put over a

14 million pieces of literature a year in the

15 hands of consumers, because they are on the

16 ground. And I think that's something that

17 the Commission has to do is to work with the

18 groups more closely throughout the country.

19 They are actually working with consumers on a

20 day-to-day basis.

21 For example, the small foundation

22 grant, we are training about 45 community

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2 proper use of cell phones with materials that

3 we did for the small, you know, foundation

4 grid. And that has got to reach a huge

5 number of consumers.

6 CHAIR BERLYN: If I could, we

7 have a Commissioner in the room. I see two

8 tent cards up. I will allow one more

9 question. If you could make it very brief

10 and then I'm afraid we will have to move on.

11 We do have someone else we will take, if you

12 don't mind, perhaps just give me your

13 questions and I can forward them on to Kris,

14 so that we don't lose your questions in the

15 course of our discussion today, because I

16 know that your questions are important.

17 Irene, you put your question

18 down. I don't know who came up first.

19 MS. LEECH: He came up first.

20 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.

21 MS. LEECH: That's why I did

22 that.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: All right. So

2 make sure that you get your question to me.

3 And go ahead. And if you could make your

4 question a question and brief?

5 MS. HERRERA: Yes.

6 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.

7 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,

8 Cable and Broadband Administrator from

9 Montgomery County Maryland.

10 One thing I would just note to

11 you, we have had a recent thing with the

12 Broadband Adoption Program. If you work with

13 local governments or you pick a few larger

14 ones, they can help bring together the people

15 who run programs aimed at low-income clients

16 from HHS or Health and Human Services, the

17 housing people, the schools and you can --

18 they can help organize meetings for you where

19 you can come out and effectively reach people

20 who are -- to find your target population.

21 So you should try to look at some

22 of those local partners in addition with our

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2 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you.

3 MS. WALT: Do you mind if people

4 can identify themselves before they speak?

5 CHAIR BERLYN: Absolutely. You

6 should identify yourself. I believe you did.

7 MS. HERRERA: I did. But Mitsi

8 Herrera, the Cable and Broadband

9 Administrator from Montgomery County

10 Maryland.

11 CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry, I

12 thought you did.

13 MS. WALT: Thank you.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you.

15 MS. MONTEITH: Thank you.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, thank you

17 very much, Kris. I greatly appreciate you

18 coming and speaking with us with your entire

19 team. It has been great. We will make sure

20 if anyone has any other questions, please,

21 forward them to me or to Scott and we will

22 make sure that Kris does get them, so that we

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 don't lose that opportunity. So thank you

2 again.

3 MS. MONTEITH: Thank you so much.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: We will also have

5 someone else from Kris' team here.

6 (Applause)

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. It is

8 my pleasure to call Commissioner Rosenworcel

9 to the table. Right here we have a spot.

10 For those of you who don't know our new

11 Commissioner here, I don't know is there

12 anyone in the room who does not know our new

13 Commissioner?

14 She was probably in the room

15 several times with her former boss who was

16 outstanding, Commissioner Copps. And she is,

17 I'm sure, going to continue his legacy of

18 strong consumer policies here at the

19 Commission and we are so pleased to have you

20 here today. So welcome.

21 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank

22 you. So as Debbie was just saying, it's a

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 not very closely held secret that I am not

2 entirely new to the Agency, though I was just

3 sworn in to office last month. So I'm

4 familiar with this room and many of the

5 people who are sitting here today with a lot

6 of the issues. And at the risk of aging

7 myself, I even remember back in 2000 when the

8 Commission first started the Consumer

9 Advisory Committee.

10 So the work you do, I know

11 because I have watched it for so many years,

12 is really, really important.

13 And thinking back on it, I was

14 thinking about what I did between my last

15 tour of duty at the FCC and what I hoped to

16 do in the weeks and months ahead. I spent

17 five years on Capitol Hill and the bulk of

18 that time was spent on the Digital Television

19 transition, the Broadband Data Improvement

20 Act, the 21st Century Communications and

21 Video Accessibility Act and on Spectrum

22 Auctions.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And if there is a single thread

2 that connects all of those things, it's how

3 they impact consumers from the DTV transition

4 making sure everyone does not lose access to

5 television, so that they can get not just

6 entertainment, but critical news and

7 information to the Broadband Date Improvement

8 Act, which is about trying to figure out

9 where broadband is and is not in households

10 across this country.

11 To also, obviously, the 21st

12 Century Communications and Video

13 Accessibility Act, which is about making sure

14 that everyone in this country, no matter who

15 they are, has access to the great services

16 available in the digital age.

17 And then finally, Spectrum

18 Auctions, which seems sort of wonkish and

19 academic, but in the end is not just about

20 making sure there are opportunities for

21 wireless providers to do new and innovative

22 things with Spectrum, but it's about taking

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2 into consumers' hands, so that they can have

3 access to a whole new range of services.

4 So that's what I have been doing

5 during the last five years, but now I'm back

6 in the Agency and I'm looking forward to

7 working with all of you trying to figure out

8 what the Agency does well when it comes to

9 consumers and, quite frankly, what the Agency

10 can do better.

11 So I'm looking forward to

12 starting a dialogue with everyone here, with

13 the Committee at-large and I just wanted to

14 let you know that my door is always open.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Yes,

16 does anyone -- I don't know if anyone has any

17 questions for the Commissioner? This is the

18 honeymoon phase. Julie?

19 MS. KEARNEY: I actually -- this

20 is Julie Kearney from the Consumer

21 Electronics Association. I don't have a

22 question. I just have a welcome back. It's

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 great to have you here. And I know you are

2 such an expert on the issues and you have got

3 a great staff.

4 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: That's

5 right. I'll make sure you meet Priscilla

6 Argeris, who is part of my staff, and we will

7 be working on wire lineage use, a lot of

8 consumer issues and she should become a

9 familiar name and face to you. She knows a

10 lot already and is going to know more even

11 when she converses with all of you.

12 MS. KEARNEY: Great. So nothing

13 except we are thrilled to have you back.

14 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Okay.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: And I will add to

16 that, it's a pleasure to -- you know, I

17 should have mentioned that you have such an

18 outstanding history on all the issues, but

19 particularly with representing consumers on

20 all these issues.

21 So we are so lucky to have you

22 here and so many of us know that that is so

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 true having worked with you not only here,

2 but also on Capitol Hill. So we are very

3 happy to have you.

4 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: I have

5 worked extensively with Debbie on the DTV

6 transition. She was really an impressive

7 advocate on behalf of AARP at the time.

8 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.

9 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: And so

10 I have a lot of respect for what you have

11 done.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank

13 you. Paul, do you have a --

14 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes. Paul

15 Schroeder with the American Foundation for --

16 do we have this microphone on? Yes, okay,

17 good.

18 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, you're on.

19 MR. SCHROEDER: Paul Schroeder,

20 American Foundation for the Blind.

21 Commissioner, good to work with you here as

22 well as having worked with you on the Hill.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I do hope that one of the things we always

2 encourage Commissioners to do and some of

3 them do it well, some of them don't, is to

4 remember that it's important to talk about

5 people with disabilities as consumers in

6 communications, not just here and in front of

7 consumer committees, but more important when

8 you are out talking with industry, in

9 particular, because I do think sometimes

10 those issues tend to get forgotten.

11 And you have a terrific megaphone

12 to be able to bring people's attention to

13 those issues. And I think, particularly, the

14 issues that relate to consumers with

15 disabilities are often overlooked and

16 forgotten when we are talking about

17 communications policies.

18 So I do hope you will -- I

19 appreciate your shout out to the CVAA. We

20 have worked hard with your office on it at

21 the time and I do hope you will remember to

22 talk about the importance of involving people

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 with disabilities and not just in sort of a

2 throw away way, but really in a meaningful

3 way of talking about how communication

4 services that are accessible are better for

5 everyone and, of course, more useful for all

6 consumers.

7 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank

8 you. Good points.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: All right.

10 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL:

11 Appreciate it.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you so much.

13 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank

14 you.

15 (Applause)

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Well,

17 this morning -- am I back on? This morning

18 we are joined, and I hope you will help me by

19 identifying yourselves by raising your hands

20 or standing up, by some members of FCC's

21 Intergovernmental Affairs Committee. And

22 there is -- are you Marlin Blizinsky? No?

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Okay. Great.

2 So I wanted to have -- maybe you

3 will have to self-identify yourselves, but I

4 know -- is Joyce Dickerson here? Great.

5 Joyce Dickerson, who is the Chair

6 Commissioner with Richland County Council in

7 South Carolina, so if you could just come on

8 over for a moment?

9 And Vice Chair Marlin Blizinsky,

10 are you in the room? Okay. And I'm sorry,

11 are you with the -- there is another

12 gentleman. I'm sorry, you will have to come

13 on over. I don't have your name here, but

14 you are Tom Sloan? Representative Tom Sloan,

15 come on over.

16 I just want to give them a couple

17 of minutes to say a few words to our

18 Committee from another committee. Welcome,

19 thank you so much.

20 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you so very

21 much.

22 CHAIR BERLYN: Welcome.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. DICKERSON: Good morning.

2 And thank you --

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Here let me get --

4 I'm sorry, let me give you the mike.

5 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you. Good

6 morning and thank you, Madam Chair, for

7 allowing us to be with you --

8 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh and there are

9 other committee members here as well.

10 MS. DICKERSON: Yes.

11 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, if you can

12 -- we've got a seat over here as well.

13 MS. DICKERSON: Okay.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Maybe why don't

15 you introduce yourselves at the mikes --

16 MS. DICKERSON: Okay.

17 CHAIR BERLYN: -- if I missed you

18 with my introductions? Did I miss you? I

19 missed you, didn't I?

20 MR. FELLMAN: Yes, sorry. Ken

21 Fellman, City Attorney in Cherry Hills

22 Village, Colorado.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: And?

2 MR. HUCKABA: Andy Huckaba, City

3 Councilman, Lenexa, Kansas.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: And I'm sorry I

5 didn't give you a proper introduction.

6 REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: That's

7 fine. I'm Representative Tom Sloan from

8 Kansas.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.

10 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you. Good

11 morning, Madam Chair. And thank you for the

12 opportunity and the privilege to be with you

13 this morning. I am Councilwoman Joyce

14 Dickerson from Columbia, South Carolina. And

15 I am very pleased to be here to introduce my

16 group this morning, our committee this

17 morning, the IAC.

18 Just to give you a little bit of

19 the background on the IAC, the IAC Advisory

20 Committee was a federal communications

21 appointee, which back in 1997 it was first

22 established the IAC predecessors, which was

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Local and State Government Advisory

2 Committee. And in July it was changed from

3 its name to the advisory committee to be

4 called the Body of the IAC to reflect a

5 greater balance between state, local and

6 tribal governments and so that we would have

7 a better representation across the board.

8 The urban and rural

9 representation also as well as the experts,

10 we need some expertise in Homeland Security

11 and rural matters.

12 And in November of 2011, the FCC

13 released a public notice announcing the new

14 members of the IAC who will serve for two

15 years from the first scheduled meeting, which

16 was held December 2011.

17 While the Commission rules

18 authority of a 15 member committee, the

19 Chairman announced 14 of those and he left

20 one of them vacant and later I was appointed

21 to be Chair of this committee and I am very

22 pleased to serve with such a very, very well

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 level of expertise that I serve with veterans

2 who have been here for a long time and I'm

3 just coming on as a novice and I really,

4 really feel very privileged to have this

5 opportunity to serve.

6 As a matter of fact, I am just

7 really pleased and thankful that I believe

8 that both of these committees, both the CAC

9 and the IAC, can compliment each other and I

10 think what we bring to the table will bring a

11 level of expertise, because we will be

12 addressing mostly and mainly the same issues,

13 although from a different perspective.

14 And because we are coming from a

15 different perspective, I just believe that as

16 we work together to give and to give the

17 Commission some very good advice on some

18 things that we feel that will better serve

19 the unserved and the under-served to me is

20 very, very important, Madam Chair.

21 And I think as we go along

22 working together and sharing information, I

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 think we will be a strong body to make the

2 Commission a more stronger body as we go

3 forward.

4 And so with that said, I'm just

5 so excited to be here this morning. And we

6 are privileged to have the opportunity to

7 come, that you give us this opportunity to

8 come and visit with you this morning, because

9 we feel that the issues that we are

10 addressing are so very important and vital to

11 the community, to our citizens and to those

12 that we serve on a day-to-day basis.

13 And from my perspective, as a

14 Council Member, I deal with these issues on a

15 daily basis, because of my constituents.

16 They are always contacting me. Although I

17 serve on an 11 member panel, you would think

18 that I am the only one that is on that

19 Commission, because every time there is an

20 issue, I don't care what jurisdiction it is,

21 they call Councilwoman Joyce Dickerson.

22 I'm like don't you -- they have

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 my number on speed dial. And but I think it

2 is a very good thing, because when you have a

3 presence, in my opinion, in your community

4 working with your constituents on a daily

5 basis, having an open ear, I think that's a

6 good thing when they know that you have an

7 open door policy that they can always come to

8 and to me that is an asset.

9 So with that said, I was going to

10 introduce my Vice Chair to you this morning

11 and let him say a few words, but I have

12 veteran members on this committee who have --

13 REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: Marlin

14 just got here.

15 MS. DICKERSON: Oh, okay.

16 Marlin, you are just on time. But I have

17 veterans on this committee who have just been

18 a tremendous asset to me, Ken and Tom, they

19 have me on speed dial as well. And I think

20 it's very good. We have only -- this is our

21 third time meeting, but we have made a bond.

22 We have put together a bond, because we are

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 addressing issues.

2 Our committee has five

3 subcommittees of which Ken chairs one, my

4 Vice Chair Marlin is here, he is Vice Chair

5 and chairs our Broadband Adoption. So out of

6 those five subcommittees, we are trying to

7 reach across the board to make sure that we

8 address those issues that we can bring to the

9 FCC and making sure that the advice we give

10 and the comments that we make will reflect

11 the committee and make sure that those things

12 are very, very important to the unserved and

13 the under-served.

14 I think that's I got involved,

15 because I am so concerned about the unserved

16 and the under-served around the nation. So

17 with that said, if Marlin would like to have

18 a few words, I would like to share -- turn it

19 over to my Vice Chair and if any of the other

20 members would love to say anything, I would

21 love to have them -- would love to introduce

22 them as well.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Thank you so very much for the

2 privilege, Madam Chair.

3 MR. BLIZINSKY: Thank you. Hi,

4 I'm Marlin Blizinsky. I'm from King County,

5 Washington, which is --

6 CHAIR BERLYN: Use the mike.

7 MR. BLIZINSKY: Is this better?

8 Yes. I'm from King County, Washington, which

9 is the county that includes Seattle and

10 Redmond. And I want to thank you for meeting

11 with us.

12 We are very interested in many

13 consumer issues as you are and so we wanted

14 to meet with you today to let you know of our

15 interests, but also let you know of our

16 interest in working with you, so that we are

17 not working across purposes and that if we

18 are interested in similar efforts, that we

19 can work together on those efforts and

20 coordinate our activities with you.

21 So thank you very much for having

22 us today and we look forward to working with

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 you.

2 MS. DICKERSON: And I would like

3 to introduce Tom Sloan, Representative Tom

4 Sloan.

5 REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: Thank you,

6 Madam Chairman, Madam Chairman. My only

7 comments are that as our Chairwoman

8 indicated, we are comprised of state

9 legislators, local government officials and I

10 would encourage the Members of the other

11 Council and the general public not only to

12 look at how we can interact with the FCC, but

13 also how we interact in our home

14 constituencies, and particularly the three

15 state legislators that are on the IAC.

16 You know, we all interact very

17 extensively with our Public Utility

18 Commission and a lot of consumer complaints

19 start and end at that level.

20 So, you know, speaking for the

21 other two who are not here and, therefore,

22 you know, I can speak for them, you know, we

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 encourage you to, you know, get our contact

2 information and, you know, use our resources,

3 not only in the three states we represent,

4 but all three of us are very active in the

5 professional associations that legislators

6 have, so we can carry messages to other

7 states as well. Thank you.

8 MS. DICKERSON: And I also did

9 not -- I would be remiss if I did not

10 introduce Ken. Well, he is probably not a

11 stranger to Debbie.

12 MR. FELLMAN: No. I appreciate

13 the opportunity to be here. Thank you, Madam

14 Chair and Chairwoman Berlyn. I served on the

15 original Government Advisory Committee, the

16 Local and State Government Advisory

17 Committee, so this is my second tour of duty

18 and I'm very pleased with how things are

19 going so far with our relationship with the

20 staff and the Commissioners.

21 And this is a new experience for

22 me to have a joint meeting with another FCC

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Advisory Committee, so I think it is a great

2 opportunity to move the ball forward on the

3 issues that both committees are dealing with.

4 Thank you.

5 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank

6 you all for --

7 MS. DICKERSON: I also would like

8 to introduce Radhika Karmarkar.

9 MS. KARMARKAR: Hi, I'm Radhika

10 Karmarkar. I'm also with New York City.

11 CHAIR BERLYN: You need to come

12 to the microphone.

13 MS. KARMARKAR: Sorry.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: There are people

15 in the room who can't hear you.

16 MS. KARMARKAR: Hi, I'm Radhika

17 Karmarkar. I'm with New York City and I work

18 on franchising and consumer issues related to

19 franchising and regulatory issues in the

20 city. And I'm very happy to be here. I

21 actually worked with the FCC for a decade

22 before I came to New York, so it is really

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 great for me.

2 And I have actually spoken to

3 Mitsi earlier, so it's good to meet you

4 Mitsi. And I'm looking forward to

5 coordinating with both groups.

6 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you

7 all.

8 MS. DICKERSON: Okay.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: And I do recognize

10 you, Ken, because I can attest to the fact

11 that you were with the original committee,

12 because I came and spoke to you back in the

13 late '90s, I remember, after the Telecom Act

14 Pact passed, so I do recall that.

15 This is a great opportunity. I'm

16 so glad that you came here today and we do

17 have so much in common that we should look

18 for opportunities to work together. So thank

19 you so much for coming today. And perhaps we

20 can come to one of your gatherings in the

21 future.

22 MS. DICKERSON: Yes, Madam Chair,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I look forward to that. As a matter of fact,

2 I would think it would be a great thing for,

3 you know, if some time in the very near

4 future, once you work with your organ -- your

5 Committee, and we go forward with our

6 committee, that we look at a joint -- you

7 know, having a joint session if that is

8 possible, because we could share a lot of

9 information.

10 And I just can't -- I would also

11 be remiss if I didn't thank my staff here for

12 helping me to coordinate this so very much

13 and I'm so pleased to have them with me.

14 Thank you again. And thank you for having us

15 this morning.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.

17 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you.

18 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Thank

19 you. Deborah? Stay in your seats. We are

20 moving right into our next session group.

21 Thank you. Okay. Everyone stay in your

22 seats. This is an important session we are

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 going to have now talking about the Consumer

2 Complaint Process and some Reform that the

3 FCC is working on and needs our help on.

4 Are you all set?

5 MS. BRODERSON: Yes, absolutely.

6 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Great.

7 So I would like to introduce Deborah

8 Broderson, Legal Advisor for CGB, and Sharon

9 Bowers, Chief Consumer Complaints and

10 Inquiries Division at CGB. So thank you both

11 for joining us this morning.

12 And if everybody is getting a

13 little antsy, we will have a break after this

14 session, but also just to let both of you

15 know, that some time during this session, we

16 will be joined by Commissioner Pai, so we

17 will take a break at some point. He is going

18 to be joining us some time between 10:00 and

19 10:20, so I'll be on the lookout and we will

20 take a, you know, short five minute break

21 during this session and then we will get back

22 to it.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So everyone stay in your seats

2 for this great session. Thank you both for

3 joining us.

4 MS. BRODERSON: Good morning.

5 Thanks for being here. Thank you, Chairman

6 Berlyn and thanks to the IAC as well,

7 Chairman Dickerson and others who are here

8 with us today.

9 Sharon and I are very excited.

10 Sharon drove all the way down from Gettysburg

11 this morning. She was so excited she got

12 here at 8:30. So that's how excited we are

13 about Consumer Complaint Reform and to talk

14 to you all about sort of the process that we

15 have been -- it has been underway for a

16 little while, but we are definitely sell and

17 listening mode.

18 So we have some, if not direct

19 asks, then some pre-asks for you that will

20 come at the end of the presentation. So

21 something to look forward to. Let me see if

22 I can click. Yes.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And we have a PowerPoint. I

2 assume that people who are attending on the

3 phone have it electronically, so -- but we

4 will talk through everything on the

5 PowerPoint.

6 MS. BOWERS: As Deborah said, I

7 drove down from Gettysburg this morning

8 across the Battlefield and it was just a

9 beautiful morning and a beautiful sunrise. I

10 actually saw a couple of deer on the

11 Battlefield, so it was just a nice way to

12 start the day.

13 And I appreciate this opportunity

14 to come down and speak with the CAC and

15 Deborah and I look forward to working with

16 this group.

17 Just to give you a little bit of

18 background on the Complaints and Inquiry

19 Process, there are several methods in which a

20 consumer can file a complaint or an inquiry

21 with us.

22 They can file on-line on Form

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 2000 Complaint or 1088. We also have the

2 Slamming Complaint Form and the Indecency

3 Form. They can send it via our website.

4 They could send it in, what we refer to these

5 days, as snail mail or they can fax it in or,

6 in fact, they can phone it in and we can take

7 a complaint over the phone for them.

8 CGB has a huge responsibility in

9 tracking the complaints and inquiries and

10 reporting it to our bureaus and offices that

11 help develop our policy to help protect

12 consumers. And we take this very important,

13 which is why we are here today to reach out

14 to the CAC on how we can maybe improve our

15 processes and talk to you about our Complaint

16 Reform.

17 We also report by topics on our

18 quarterly report, which can be found on our

19 website. And as I said, the complaint

20 information drives proceedings and we often

21 -- bureaus often reach out to us and ask for

22 data to help support proceedings.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. BRODERSON: And at times even

2 initiate proceedings. I mean, that's one of

3 the exciting things about working with the

4 Consumer Complaints is that it's this direct

5 hotline, literally sometimes, from consumers

6 to tell us what is going on and sometimes we

7 end up spotting trends much -- even more

8 quickly than we could hear about them from

9 lobbyists or consumer advocates, because the

10 consumers are the ones who are directly

11 affected.

12 Oops, click. So Sharon mentioned

13 our Quarterly Complaint Report. I put up

14 some statistics from the most recent report,

15 which was the first quarter, January through

16 March. So we break out report down into

17 inquiries and complaints.

18 Inquiry is a question from a

19 consumer about FCC policy, about the

20 regulations.

21 And a complaint is a request from

22 a consumer to do something. Something

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 happened to me, this company, I'm having a

2 problem with this company, this service

3 provider, can you help me?

4 So we had almost 18,000 inquiries

5 in the first quarter and almost 90,000

6 complaints in the first quarter from

7 consumers. So that's a lot. You can see our

8 numbers are up 29 percent in inquiries, 32

9 percent for complaints. So either something

10 really bad is happening out there or we are

11 getting the word out to consumers and we like

12 to think that it's just we are getting word

13 out to consumers and they know that they can

14 come complain to us. Although that, again,

15 is something that we hope to work on as well.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: A quick question

17 about that. When you track complaints over a

18 year long period, do they go up and down over

19 the year? So you are comparing it to the

20 fourth quarter, but over a year long period,

21 are there quarters where complaints go up and

22 down?

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So if you compared it to the

2 first quarter of 2010, how would they compare

3 to first quarter -- I'm sorry, 2011 compared

4 to 2012? Because I remember looking at

5 complaints over a year long and they tend to

6 go up and down. So I'm just wondering how do

7 they track over a year long period of time?

8 MS. BOWERS: Well, and that's

9 part of the reason why we want to reach out

10 to the CAC and talk a little bit about our

11 complaint process. Because what we would

12 like to develop is that very type of tracking

13 from year-to-year.

14 When we put the quarterly report

15 out, we don't specifically go back and then

16 look up and down like within the month or

17 within that general year.

18 But we want to improve how we

19 intake the complaint, so that we can do more

20 of a drill down, so we can see in specific

21 subject matter if there is a change.

22 Right now, it's too broad and

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that's why we want to work on our Complaint

2 Reform and work directly with the bureaus on

3 the subject codes that we use. And we also

4 are going to talk a little bit about this as

5 well, specializing our team to deal with

6 specific subject matter, so if we did see a

7 spike in a complaint type, we would be able

8 to identify it immediately.

9 MS. BRODERSON: Or a drop in a

10 complaint type, which again could be good

11 news and something that the Commission could

12 share like hey, consumers are no longer

13 complaining about this. Maybe it's something

14 the Commission did or that the consumer

15 advocates did that made things better

16 sometimes.

17 Again, from the same report, I

18 pulled out our top categories for inquiries

19 and complaints. For cable billing and rates,

20 broadcasting, programming, no surprise.

21 Wireless, licensing information, wireless and

22 wire-line, TCPA complaints, unwanted calls,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 unwanted faxes and then complaints -- we also

2 separately tracked bundled VoIP complaints.

3 Again, cable, satellite,

4 broadcasting, programming and then unwanted

5 calls. It's not surprising that those are

6 the issues that consumers are concerned

7 about.

8 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, please.

9 MS. HERRERA: Hi, Mitsi Herrera,

10 Cable and Broadband Administrator from

11 Montgomery County.

12 The last time when Joel was still

13 heading, I think, the Bureau, if I recall

14 right, we had talked to you about in your

15 reports you report the top complaints for

16 that quarter. And that made it difficult to

17 track between quarters. And we had suggested

18 that if you instead reported all categories,

19 then you would have the data that you would

20 be able to track.

21 So, one, I wanted to find out

22 whether you had implemented that

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2 so?

3 And the second is I did want to

4 ask you specifically in the past when people

5 had called about cable service complaints,

6 the Commission had referred them to the local

7 jurisdictions, the local franchising

8 authorities. So are you representing now

9 that you handle those complaints?

10 MS. BOWERS: It's a difficult

11 area. Most of the complaints that we get are

12 from consumers who either have reception type

13 issues through the DTV transition or perhaps

14 they have lost channels.

15 And so what we try to do is refer

16 the consumer to the local franchising

17 authority. Now, we have had consumers

18 complain that the local franchising authority

19 hasn't been helpful. They haven't been able

20 to get in contact with them. So we do what

21 we can to advocate on behalf of the consumer.

22 To the degree that we can, we try

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 to get the issue resolved, but we are not

2 always successful in that regard. But our

3 first point is to reach out to the local

4 franchising authority to resolve the issue.

5 MS. HERRERA: So one is in your

6 reporting, are you tracking or reporting

7 the-- or maybe -- you are probably not, but

8 it would be helpful is that if you -- I'm not

9 sure where they fall within complaints or

10 inquiries where the resolution is largely a

11 referral to another jurisdiction, tracking

12 that would be useful so you could understand

13 the impact on resources.

14 The other issues is that there

15 are a minority of states, but it's

16 significant, about 17, who have moved to a

17 state franchising model for cable. And one

18 of the concerns has been that that gutted the

19 resources at the local level to address those

20 complaints.

21 It is very hard to move resources

22 into addressing those if we are hiding the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 problem by not reporting back that in North

2 Dakota we had 950 complaints that we referred

3 back. And in California, we had 25,000 or

4 whatever it may be.

5 So I'm just suggesting to you

6 that doing that, and there are folks in this

7 room from the Intergovernmental Relations

8 Committee and they can sort of be a good

9 liaison for that as well, but it is very

10 difficult if you don't report the data out.

11 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Very good.

12 MS. BRODERSON: Well, and that's

13 something I sat in on the Consumer Complaint

14 Section of the IAC meeting yesterday and that

15 was one of the suggestions that was raised,

16 one of the comments that was made was that

17 strengthening the feedback between the

18 Commission and states would be really

19 helpful. So I think that's something that

20 definitely is on our radar.

21 CHAIR BERLYN: So we are going to

22 take a quick break from our presentation. Am

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I on? Okay. Because we are so fortunate to

2 have Commissioner Clyburn with us this

3 morning. And I will get right back or we

4 will get right back to your great

5 presentation. So sorry. Thank you for being

6 so flexible here.

7 Thank you, Commissioner Clyburn,

8 for joining us this morning. You have been

9 so kind to come and address us before and we

10 are thrilled to have you here this morning.

11 So thank you.

12 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you

13 so much for being kind to taking a pause. I

14 know you are all very busy and I want to

15 thank you for your willingness to serve and

16 taking the time to be here. Once again, I

17 always have to extend my heartfelt gratitude

18 to Debbie Berlyn, who is one of my favorite

19 people on the planet, but other than that, I

20 want to thank her for her stewardship for

21 this -- for chairing this critically

22 important Committee.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I also wish to thank, and she may

2 be in the room, but if not, please, allow --

3 tell her that I did, Kris Monteith that all

4 of the superstars in the Consumer and

5 Government Affairs Bureau who are on the

6 front lines engaging with the public about

7 what we are doing right and yes, what we are

8 doing wrong. And where and if our industry

9 friends may be falling short.

10 Speaking of friends, I am pleased

11 to count Karen Peltz Strauss as one of them.

12 Her voice is invaluable here at the FCC and

13 those long hours and hard work on the

14 implementation or CVAA have been a major win

15 for the disability community and for us all.

16 So thank you so very much.

17 The implementation of the

18 Communications and video Accessibility Act is

19 a high priority for both the Commission and

20 my office. It is essential that more than 54

21 million Americans who are living with

22 disabilities have the same level of access to

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 advanced communication services as other

2 Americans.

3 To that end, there are two

4 initiatives that come into effect next month

5 that I'm especially pleased to highlight this

6 morning. Starting July 1st, as you know, the

7 big four broadcast networks, ABC, CBS, FOX

8 and NBC, as well as the top five rated cable

9 networks will be required to provide audio

10 descriptions of some of their popular

11 programming for blind or sight-impaired

12 viewers.

13 This technology can be described

14 as a sort of narration that will accompany

15 the pre-recorded dialogue and it will

16 illustrate on-screen action for popular

17 comedies, dramas and children's programming.

18 These regulations may escalate

19 over time in terms of the number of required

20 stations and hours.

21 Also set to launch next month is

22 the National Deaf/Blind Equipment

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Distribution Program. This program provides

2 up to $10 million per year for the local

3 distribution of communications equipment to

4 low-income individuals who are deaf/blind.

5 The first phase of this program

6 national outreach will begin next month and

7 will be conducted by the Perkins School for

8 the Blind in partnership with the Helen

9 Keller National Center for deaf/blind youths

10 and adults and FableVision, Inc.

11 Both Perkins and the Helen Keller

12 National Center are doing a great job to

13 serve the needs of millions of Americans who

14 live with disabilities and will get the

15 information about this program out to

16 consumers and service providers.

17 These are two solid ways that the

18 Commission is working to address the

19 communications needs of the community and I

20 have no doubt that the Committee will come up

21 with many more creative ways for the FCC to

22 do more.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 We have been busy in other areas

2 as well. The Commission adopted reforms to

3 the Universal Service Fund, you might have

4 heard about that, updating the fund to meet

5 modern-day realities and putting it on a more

6 sustainable path going forward.

7 Mobile service uses has exploded

8 and broadband access is a key gateway by

9 which many Americans obtain critical

10 information and services.

11 So the Universal Service Fund

12 needed to be updated to reflect these current

13 realities. The reforms we adopted this past

14 October will promote significant broadband

15 deployment to millions of unserved consumers

16 over the next six years.

17 What is most important to me is

18 that our reform carefully balances the need

19 for certainty and predictability for carriers

20 by avoiding flash cuts and providing

21 transition so carriers may adjust to the

22 changes.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 It is no secret that I have a

2 deep connection to rural America and I

3 believe that these reforms will allow us to

4 come even closer to achieving Congress' goal

5 of providing all Americans access to

6 affordable voice and advanced communication

7 services.

8 I recognize, however, that

9 current efforts to modernize the fund may not

10 resolve all of the issues that were raised in

11 the proceeding. So this Agency continues to

12 work very hard to hear everyone's concerns

13 and address them in a timely fashion.

14 At all times, we have had an open

15 door policy and we have worked diligently

16 towards resolutions that benefits consumers

17 and help us achieve our Universal Service

18 goals.

19 I wish to mention one final

20 thing. This April, the Commission adopted

21 rules to protect Americans from telephone

22 Cramming. Many consumers fail to realize

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 when there are unauthorized charges on their

2 bills, so these charges often go undetected

3 for months or even years.

4 Our new rules strengthen the

5 Commission's disclosure requirements on

6 telephone companies, so that consumers will

7 have an easier time spotting Crammers. This

8 is an ongoing process, however, and much more

9 can be done to protect consumers.

10 If there are any additional ways

11 to empower consumers to prevent Cramming, we

12 want to hear about them. So the comment

13 period in this proceeding will remain open

14 until June 25th. And I encourage you and all

15 others interested to participate.

16 So, Debbie and the Committee,

17 thank you once again for your unselfish

18 commitment to public service. And I am

19 grateful to be a partner and remaining

20 engaged with you as we make this

21 communications and media marketplace more

22 inclusive.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Thank you so very much.

2 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank

3 you very much. We have time for a question.

4 Yes?

5 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Hello.

6 Good morning.

7 MS. WALT: Dorothy Walt speaking

8 from the Helen Keller National Center. I

9 would like to applaud FCC for all of the

10 efforts on behalf of people with

11 disabilities.

12 I'm curious as many of the things

13 are happening right now are doing work with

14 some of the people with some specific kinds

15 of disability, but I know that a lot of these

16 things that are happening does not have

17 anything available for people who are hard of

18 hearing, deaf and very low vision.

19 Don't we -- cannot benefit from

20 interpreting services. Many of the senior

21 citizens and many other people who are deaf/

22 blind, who are low vision and deaf or hard of

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 hearing, put large captions when you talk

2 about TV programs being captioned, where they

3 will be able to have the capability of making

4 them large print, so that people can read

5 them.

6 Those kinds of things have not

7 been addressed, not that I know of. Maybe I

8 missed it. I just wanted to bring this up

9 for everyone's attention. Thank you very

10 much.

11 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: I

12 appreciate you so much. Very nice to meet

13 you, number one. I appreciate so much you

14 affirming some of the challenges. And in

15 terms of the communities in which their might

16 be multiple challenges, I assure you that

17 there is more enhanced attention. I think I

18 mentioned it a few moments ago, again, to

19 those challenges and we are constantly

20 engaged and are being more affirmative in

21 that end.

22 So I think you will see over the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 coming months and years that what you might

2 -- what have been disconnects to that end, I

3 think you will be increasingly pleased over

4 the next few months that those issues with

5 person with, again, more enhanced challenges

6 will be addressed.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone on the

8 phone have a question? Okay. Thank you very

9 much, Commissioner Clyburn.

10 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you.

11 I appreciate it.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you

13 for coming.

14 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: And I

15 appreciate your engagement and your

16 willingness to work with us and both

17 challenge us on the issues we all care about.

18 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you very

19 much.

20 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you.

21 (Applause)

22 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Deborah and Sharon, so back to your

2 presentation.

3 MS. BRODERSON: Thank you very

4 much. Okay. I just wanted to follow-up. I

5 don't think we answered both parts of the

6 last question about the discussions that had

7 happened about releasing all of the complaint

8 categories.

9 I think that is discussions that

10 had happened about releasing all of the

11 complaint categories. I think that is

12 something that might have left -- I think

13 that's something that Joel was invested in.

14 Joel left the Bureau and I think it might

15 have dropped off our radar, so it's something

16 that we will bring back and talk to Kris

17 about, because I know it's not something that

18 have been in discussions lately, so I

19 appreciate you bringing that back up to our

20 attention.

21 MS. BOWERS: As we start our

22 process of reviewing the Complaint and

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Inquiry Reform, some of the objectives that

2 we are trying to overcome is we want to

3 improve our Consumer Web Interface. And if

4 you are familiar with our website, you can

5 click on the tool bar in front and you can

6 comment or you can complain.

7 Once you click on complain, it

8 takes you to two navigation screens that

9 depending on how a consumer answers a

10 specific question, it leads them to a series

11 of forms.

12 Now, Deborah and I have been here

13 a long time and we know how to complain about

14 things, because we have been here a long

15 time. But how does the average consumer

16 complain?

17 I make it a personal note to

18 check my wireless bill every month to make

19 sure there is no Cramming on there, that they

20 are not charging me the .99 cent data charge.

21 And how do consumers complain? How do we

22 educate them and how do we get that complaint

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2 direction?

3 So we want to look at how we

4 intake the data. We also want to ensure

5 consistency. We have -- I have a group of

6 staff in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, 30 CAMS,

7 Consumer Advocacy and Mediation Specialist,

8 and then I have a group here in D.C.

9 And one of the challenges that we

10 have is a lot of the complaints are

11 subjective. And Deborah and I could code a

12 complaint. She could code it one way and I

13 could code it another.

14 So a way that we have looked at

15 this is to reach out to this group and ask

16 you how consumers are complaining. What

17 terms mean something to a consumer and then

18 to specialize our staff into that specific

19 subject matter, so that we can catch some of

20 these spikes.

21 This will also help us improve

22 the accuracy of our coding and of the data

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2 enhance the information that we provide to

3 the bureaus for regulatory activities.

4 MS. BRODERSON: I think Sharon

5 already mentioned some of the challenges that

6 we face. And you can probably imagine some

7 of them as well, if you have ever filed a

8 complaint with us. Maybe you have some other

9 challenges you would like to bring to our

10 attention.

11 A complaint that we hear fairly

12 often is that the Consumer Interface can be

13 kind of complicated or maybe you know exactly

14 what you want and you have a pretty

15 sophisticated understanding of what you are

16 complaining about, but that category isn't

17 really on our website. And, you know, that's

18 something that we are working on.

19 As anyone who works in telecom

20 knows, the issues change overnight. New

21 technologies develop. You can't always

22 update our website in time to capture new

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 issues. So that's something we are

2 definitely working on ways to make the

3 complaint categories general enough to

4 capture everything, but specific enough that

5 it helps us, because if everyone just files a

6 complaint, then we have to read all of them

7 manually.

8 And also, we know that we tend --

9 we can use jargons. Sometimes the

10 terminology doesn't make any sense. I mean,

11 wire-line makes sense to us. I don't know

12 how much sense it makes to a lot of

13 consumers. So that's a struggle.

14 MS. KARMARKAR: On the coding

15 issue that you were just raising? Oh, sorry,

16 Radhika Karmarkar from New York City. And I

17 just was on the coding issue that Sharon was

18 raising.

19 One thing that I know we are

20 trying to figure out is that we do get

21 complaints about sort of broadband or triple

22 play and we are trying to figure out how much

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 of those things are kind of falling through

2 the cracks because of sort of uncertainty in

3 that area.

4 And it would be useful to get a

5 feel of when those issues come into -- I

6 noticed that the category was sort of

7 broadband/VoIP, but what is the question? Is

8 it a billing question? Are they confused

9 about what plan they signed up for? Is it a

10 service question? The Internet is going out

11 too frequently or it is not at the -- I mean,

12 I know there are separate things being done

13 at the FCC on speeds and so on, but just that

14 type.

15 And then I would also reiterate

16 with Mitsi that just the regional or the

17 state-by-state or whatever area breakdowns.

18 MS. BOWERS: Great. Good points,

19 good points.

20 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott has a

21 question.

22 MR. BERGMANN: Actually, I wanted

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 to thank you guys. We are really pleased

2 that you all are taking a look at these

3 issues and the coding questions as well, too.

4 We are certainly --

5 CHAIR BERLYN: Identify yourself.

6 MR. BERGMANN: Oh, thanks, Deb.

7 Scott Bergmann with CTIA. I just wanted to

8 say thank you to you all for undertaking this

9 review of how the complaints come in, how

10 they are coded. We are very interested in

11 that as well, too, because, you know, we are

12 interested in feedback.

13 And, you know, one of the things

14 I noticed is that when you put up the top

15 complaints, the one for wireless was TCPA.

16 And so that's always very much of interest to

17 our industry, because, interestingly enough,

18 those complaints are really about unwanted

19 calls and tax from third-party marketers as

20 opposed to from wireless providers.

21 So when you look at complaint in

22 the mobile space, that is by far the greatest

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2 additional visibility into, you know, where

3 customers are actually having problems, I

4 think, would probably help the Commission in

5 its policy making efforts and in its

6 enforcement efforts to sort of know where to

7 focus its resources.

8 So thank you guys for that and we

9 are happy to engage with you and help try to

10 be partners in that effort.

11 MS. BRODERSON: Well, and I think

12 there are different models for transparency

13 in our consumer reports, our quarterly

14 reports. And I think just the kind of data

15 analysis that we are hoping to increase, it

16 sounds like would be of help to almost

17 everyone in the room and I think to the

18 Commission as well, so that's definitely

19 something that we would love to work towards.

20 MS. BOWERS: Some internal

21 solutions that we have been looking at is to,

22 first, start coordinating with the bureaus.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I mean, we have our contacts with the

2 bureaus, but a really in depth look at what

3 are the bureaus needing to support their

4 policy?

5 Review our category codes. As

6 Deborah had said earlier, some of our codes

7 are redundant. Some of them are legacy codes

8 that have been around for quite some time.

9 And, as we know, as wireless -- as the

10 technology advances, we are behind the times

11 a bit.

12 So to review those category

13 codes:

14 Redrafting the codes to ensure

15 that they are accurate, they are clear, clear

16 to us and clear to the consumer when they go

17 to file that complaint on-line.

18 Ensure that our CAMS, Consumer

19 Advocacy and Mediation Specialist, have the

20 latest consumer guides that will coordinate

21 with the codes and the rest of what the FCC

22 is doing, so we are all speaking from one

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2 And increasing the analysis of

3 the data.

4 And back to your question, we

5 also have subcategories of codes. So we

6 probably need to take a look at the subcats

7 to make sure that they make sense for how the

8 codes are captured to drill down to the

9 billing or the service issues as it relates

10 to broadband or, you know, other issues.

11 MS. BRODERSON: And one of the

12 challenges that we didn't mention, but again

13 that I think would be pretty obvious in this

14 room, is that consumers just don't always

15 know what their problem is, so, you know,

16 Consumer Complaint Reform only makes sense if

17 you are also reforming consumer education and

18 that's why we want to coordinate every time a

19 new consumer facing item come out of the

20 Commission, we want to make sure that we have

21 a consumer guide ready to go, that we have

22 the CAMS educated to take calls, that we have

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 our website updated, so it's all part of the

2 same process.

3 So this is the part where -- yes,

4 this is the part for you guys. And I think

5 we will be talking and working more with your

6 Chairperson on --

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Ken has a

8 question.

9 MS. BRODERSON: Oh, please.

10 MR. McELDOWNEY: Hi. Before we

11 got --

12 CHAIR BERLYN: No, identify

13 yourself first.

14 MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. Yes,

15 sorry. Ken McEldowney, Consumer Action.

16 Before we get to the codes and the fun stuff,

17 I guess I had a couple of questions.

18 One is that do you track the

19 complaints by language?

20 MS. BRODERSON: That's a good

21 question. No.

22 MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. That's--

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. BRODERSON: You mean, by

2 English, Spanish?

3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes.

4 MS. BRODERSON: Oh, what do we

5 take -- we intake in English and Spanish. Is

6 that right, Sharon?

7 MS. BOWERS: Yes, we do. We do

8 intake English and Spanish and sign language.

9 MR. McELDOWNEY: No. I guess my

10 question goes to -- what? Yes, my question

11 goes beyond that.

12 Certainly, I -- you know, I'm

13 with Consumer Action and we handle complaints

14 in English, Spanish, Cantonese and Mandarin.

15 But more importantly, I think we track the

16 complaints by language. And I think if you

17 are not tracking complaints by language, you

18 are going to end up not knowing at all in

19 terms of whether or not you are adequately

20 reaching those populations.

21 So, for example, we had a very

22 major cell phone scam that was being pushed

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2 the Vietnamese in San Jose. You know, you

3 can't get that information unless not only do

4 you handle information in those languages,

5 but also track them by a language.

6 The second thing is the you -- on

7 your website is the complaint form available

8 in Spanish?

9 MS. BRODERSON: Yes, it is.

10 MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. Good.

11 MS. BOWERS: Those are good

12 suggestions.

13 MS. BRODERSON: And we do

14 translate our consumer guides. They are all

15 translated. They are all available in

16 English and translated into Spanish. And

17 some of the most consumer-specific guides, we

18 translate into other languages. So we have

19 for the Digital Television transition, we had

20 I don't know how many languages, 10? I don't

21 know. I had a big sheet of them, I know I

22 remember.

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2 excellent point for the interim discussion.

3 All right. So we were at the fun

4 stuff. I think we will be working with your

5 Chairperson on the sort of specifics of this.

6 We wanted to highlight the things that we

7 think the CAC would be really helpful for.

8 And we also have sort of general suggestions

9 to throw out to the IAC as well, so for those

10 of you in the room.

11 So we mentioned our Complaint

12 Codes. We have codes when consumers call in,

13 the CAMS categorize the complaints and the

14 inquiries. A lot of them are so specific, so

15 technical that the chance that a consumer is

16 going to call up and complain about this is

17 very slim.

18 So we would really like to think

19 of -- to present brainstorms a key word. You

20 are a consumer and you have this kind of

21 problem, give you a description of the

22 problem. How would you describe it? What

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 kind of words would you use? That would be

2 really helpful.

3 It seems like something we should

4 be able to do, but we just haven't really

5 done that well on that.

6 Also, testing our on-line

7 complaint system. I know some of you have

8 already mentioned this and I heard in the IAC

9 yesterday about our on-line system. And I

10 hear from friends, you know, my aunt wanted

11 to file a complaint about something and she

12 couldn't figure out how to do it on your

13 website.

14 So practice filing a complaint up

15 to the point where you actually file a

16 complaint, ideally. You know, are our forms

17 clear? Do you have extra information and

18 there is nowhere to put it? Are you just not

19 able to find the right category? Should we

20 have a more generic category? Would that be

21 helpful?

22 All of -- those are the kinds of

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 sort of beta testing issues that we would

2 love the CACs help with.

3 And the IVR, Sharon, do you want

4 to talk about the IVR?

5 MS. BOWERS: Yes. The IVR is the

6 voice that you hear when you call 888-CALL-

7 FCC. You might hear my voice. You might

8 hear a CAMS that works for me, their voice.

9 You might hear Deborah's voice. We are not

10 really sure whose voice is all through the

11 IVR, that's our point. We need help with the

12 content on the IVR and the quality of the

13 IVR.

14 And we just recently moved our

15 Gettysburg office to VoIP and we have some

16 enhancements that we can make to the IVR, but

17 we would like to know what makes sense to a

18 consumer.

19 And we have all called IVRs. We

20 have all had experiences good or bad. And we

21 would like to know what suggestions you might

22 have. And what we are looking at is, first

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 of all, some times the IVR doesn't help. You

2 really do need to speak to someone. And we

3 are ready to speak to consumers who need our

4 assistance, but then there is times that

5 you-- we are all busy. You don't really need

6 to speak with someone, you just need an

7 address.

8 But we would like to know how

9 easy is it to get to a person? We would also

10 like to know if the options make sense on our

11 IVR? Are they clear? Are you pushing the

12 right button and getting to where you think

13 you need to be to get the question answered?

14 We also have the Universal

15 Licensing System, which handles all of our

16 licensing questions. So many times folks who

17 have a licensing question end up in our shop

18 and our stuff ends up in their shop. And we

19 would like to know how we can better

20 communicate that to consumers.

21 Is the language plain? Again, no

22 industry terms. Is it -- are we really

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 advising folks properly on how to get to

2 where they need to be to get their question

3 answered. Of course, our voice recordings, a

4 lot of the records are dubs. We really don't

5 have a professional voice. I'm about as

6 professional as it comes, so that's scary.

7 But, you know, it's dub overs and

8 retakes and, you know, let us know where we

9 need to make some real improvements there.

10 And then if we had money, I don't

11 know, Kris, do we have money? If we had

12 money to make some changes to our IVR, what

13 one thing could we do that would really be

14 meaningful to a consumer contacting --

15 calling through our IVR? Would it be a touch

16 pad where they could check on the status of a

17 complaint? Would it be an interactive voice

18 where they actually talk through and it leads

19 them through?

20 What technology could we put on

21 the IVR that would really be meaningful and

22 be helpful? So that's what we are looking at

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 for IVR projects.

2 MS. BRODERSON: And I know we are

3 almost out of time. For the IAC, for those

4 of you in the room, I think sitting in your

5 consumer complaint session yesterday, what

6 struck me was that the -- we could definitely

7 improve the path for communication between

8 the Commission and the states, local

9 governments, local entities, especially the

10 referral process which came up again today.

11 So I think that working with us

12 to determine best practices for that kind of

13 improving that communication enhancing,

14 reporting back to the states on complaints on

15 a state-by-state basis, definitely is

16 something that we would love to talk to the

17 IAC.

18 And to the extent that the CAC

19 has input in that as well, absolutely. So I

20 think that's our presentation. I think we

21 have had -- if we have time for questions, I

22 would defer.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Yes,

2 we will start with questions. We anticipate

3 Commissioner Pai's arrival, but we have some

4 time for questions. So if you could -- oh, i

5 see numerous. Oh, everybody has been busy

6 raising cards. And, Paul, put your card up.

7 Don't just -- yes. So all right. I'll

8 remember that you are putting your card up.

9 I'll try and remember that.

10 I have no idea what order people

11 did this in, so I'm just going to start on

12 this side of the room. Mary, then Paul,

13 because I just saw Paul's go up, so Mary,

14 then Paul and then I'll continue down around

15 the room. So Mary?

16 MS. CRESPY: Hi. I'm Mary Crespy

17 with Verizon. It's good to see you, Sharon.

18 MS. BOWERS: Good to see you.

19 MS. CRESPY: Since you asked

20 about the website, there is one issue,

21 unfortunately, that is an increasing problem

22 for our -- for customers of wireless services

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 and that is text spam.

2 And as a consumer I get,

3 unfortunately, text spam and I know what to

4 do. So I went to the FCC's website to

5 complain. It is not easy to -- it is not an

6 easy category. You think it would be, but

7 it's not.

8 If you go into the Telemarketing

9 Complaint Section, it says that is where you

10 put in text spam, but once you go in there,

11 there is no place for text spam. It's all

12 about calls to your landline. And then if

13 you go into the Wireless Section, there is

14 complaints for calls and for emails and other

15 things, but no text spam.

16 And since it is an increasing

17 problem, I think you might really want to

18 zero in on that and make it very easy to

19 complain, so you can really gather

20 information on what a growing problem this

21 has become.

22 CHAIR BERLYN: And just to let

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 everybody know before we go into the Q&A

2 session, we are going to be talking later

3 about how we are going to participate in

4 giving the FCC feedback. So we are going to

5 have a process for this, so just to let you

6 know that. Paul?

7 MR. SCHROEDER: Thank you. Paul

8 Schroeder with the American Foundation for

9 the Blind. A couple things. One is I think

10 the disability community definitely wants to

11 give you feedback on the website and we need

12 to do it in a structured way, so, Deborah,

13 thanks for your comment on that already.

14 On complaints, I want to -- this

15 question started to be asked, but I want to

16 try to understand it better. A couple of

17 things. One is there is, as our person from

18 New York pointed out, a load of things that

19 come under, I'm sure broadcast programming,

20 cable satellite programming as major

21 complaint items, VoIP bundling.

22 Are most of the programming-

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 related items, do they relate to missing

2 channels, missing programs, indecency? You

3 know, I'm just mad because why the heck did

4 they put Dallas on again? I mean, it was a

5 terrible show to start with. I don't know.

6 I mean, what are -- I mean, and it kind of

7 leads to my question, which is how -- to what

8 percent of the complaints are actually

9 remediable or actionable that you got that

10 can actually be acted upon?

11 And then I guess the third thing

12 and it kind of gets back to using the data,

13 what can be done? 90,000 complaints in a

14 quarter seems like a lot. And if a high

15 percentage of those are actionable, what can

16 be done to push policies that potentially

17 regulatory action of the Commission that

18 might actually lead to fewer complaints

19 needing to be lodged. Is that something that

20 you are looking at?

21 MS. BOWERS: Well, first of all,

22 Paul, everything that you mentioned, Major

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 League Baseball, I think, was -- is it on,

2 because I'm not sure? Can you hear me? Oh,

3 I'm not close enough. Okay.

4 Everything that you mentioned is

5 the types of complaints that we see. I think

6 you missed out Major League Baseball, they

7 can't get their channel for that. And for

8 the most part, what the CAMS try to do is

9 advocate the issue. Try to resolve the

10 issue.

11 And we are limited as to what we

12 can do. That's -- I can't begin to tell you

13 enough about the CAMS that sit on the front

14 line to take the calls and deal with the

15 complaints, because we are limited in how we

16 can resolve some of these issues.

17 And for the most part, I think we

18 are able to handle the individual complaint

19 to the degree that the consumer leaves

20 somewhat satisfied or at least knowing, you

21 know, here are your options to try to resolve

22 the issue. Did you want to take the question

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 on future?

2 MS. BRODERSON: Well, I think the

3 point you raised, I think your third point,

4 about how we can address these issues, we

5 have this high volume of complaints, that's

6 exactly why we are trying to improve our data

7 analysis to help inform the kind of

8 regulatory action the Commission could take

9 or not necessarily regulatory actions, just

10 cooperation with industry to see what we can

11 do to address these consumer concerns.

12 I mean, you asked what percentage

13 were remediable, you know. I don't know. We

14 don't have statistics on that necessarily,

15 because, you know, I mean, some of that it's

16 kind of subjective, but we certainly do our

17 best to address -- either address each issue

18 with a consumer or refer it to an entity, the

19 FTC or a state PUC who can.

20 So, yes, we don't have any hard

21 and fast stats on that part.

22 CHAIR BERLYN: So I'm going to --

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 if you don't mind, we have so many questions,

2 we are going to get back to questions for

3 just a bit, but I am going to ask if folks

4 could hold and I'm going to ask Commissioner

5 Pai to come to the table.

6 It is my pleasure to introduce

7 Commissioner Pai, who is the other new

8 arrival to the Commission. And it's a

9 pleasure to have you here today. You are

10 also not a real stranger to the FCC. You

11 served as a staff member in the Office of the

12 General Counsel for several years at the FCC.

13 And I hope that you will be a frequent

14 visitor to the Consumer Advisory Committee.

15 It's a pleasure to have you here today and

16 welcome.

17 COMMISSIONER PAI: Well, thank

18 you. Thank you very much, Chairperson

19 Berlyn. I appreciate the introduction. And

20 thanks to all of you as well for taking time

21 out of your meeting to accommodate me.

22 I just wanted to say hello and

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 introduce myself. I am Ajit Pai. I have got

2 all of four weeks of tenure now at the

3 Commission, so I feel like a grizzled

4 veteran, at this point, of the

5 communications wars.

6 But no, seriously, it has been a

7 fantastic reintroduction to the Commission.

8 I love this Agency. I love the work that we

9 do and I love this industry. And I think it

10 is such a privilege to be able to serve in

11 this capacity.

12 I also wanted to thank you for

13 the work that you are doing on the Committee.

14 I think a lot of the times people, when they

15 think about the FCC, at least people within

16 this building, they would think about

17 products and services and devices and

18 equipment, but none of that really means

19 anything until the rubber meets the road and

20 the road is the consumer.

21 And so, you know, the question is

22 is the industry, is the Commission doing

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 everything it can to make the communication

2 services and products that we all enjoy work

3 for the consumer?

4 And so to that extent, your input

5 is extremely valuable. I think the

6 Commission's decision making is just enriched

7 by having a variety of perspectives on these

8 issues. And I know that, from my own

9 personal experiences as I was explaining

10 yesterday to another committee, people have a

11 lot of complaints about communications.

12 And I have now become a more

13 frequent recipient of such complaints, even

14 from my own family. So I know that, you

15 know, there is a lot of interest in making

16 the industry work better for consumers.

17 And so to the extent that I can

18 play any role in, you know, helping consumers

19 have a better experience, that's something

20 that is certainly a priority for me. And I

21 don't have anything beyond that other than to

22 say, you know, it's good to be here and if

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 you have any questions, comments, I would be

2 happy to field them.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone have a

4 quick question for the Commissioner? I know

5 you have your cards up for the other

6 questions, but you could raise your hand for

7 this one if you have a question.

8 Mitsi has a question.

9 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,

10 Cable and Broadband Administrator from

11 Montgomery County. Welcome. Thanks for

12 coming to see us. I was just curious, is

13 there one particular issue that is close to

14 your heart or that you are looking to focus

15 on?

16 COMMISSIONER PAI: I feel like

17 I'm sort of a jack-of-all-trades. I love,

18 you know, the full pamphlet of issues within

19 the Commission's jurisdiction. Some of the

20 more-- the bigger priorities, I guess, I

21 would say is a Spectrum policy writ-large. I

22 mean, obviously, Congress has just given us

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 incentive option authority and that's going

2 to consume a lot of the Commission's time

3 over the coming months and years.

4 But also to other Spectrum

5 policies, you know, working with the Federal

6 Government to relinquish or share Spectrum.

7 Identifying other bands that can be either

8 allocated more efficiently or can be used

9 more efficiently, you know, on Tuesdays or

10 Wednesday, I guess, it was that we voted on a

11 4.9 gigahertz item to improve the use of the

12 band, which hasn't been used as much as we

13 thought it would have back in 1999 and 2002.

14 So really trying to get more

15 Spectrum out into the marketplace. And I

16 think the reason is that the Spectrum

17 shortage ultimately re-downs to the detriment

18 of consumers. If there is not as much

19 Spectrum, then carriers feel like they have

20 to impose even more stringent policies in

21 terms of voice and data use or increased

22 prices.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And ultimately, like I was saying

2 in my initial comments, where the rubber

3 meets the road is the consumer is not going

4 to have, you know, the same level or quality

5 of service that he or she might have enjoyed

6 previously.

7 So Spectrum policy, I think, is

8 the biggest thing on our plate right now. I

9 guess the only other -- there are a bunch of

10 other areas within which the Commission is

11 working on, but one of the other priorities,

12 I guess, that our office has is trying to get

13 to the Commission to be a little more nimble

14 in terms of keeping pace with the marketplace

15 and technological innovation.

16 I have been struggling the last

17 several weeks by how many companies across a

18 variety of different communications

19 industries have said that, you know, they are

20 waiting for Commission action on X or Y. And

21 regardless of what the action is, it would

22 just be nice to have some certainty there.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And so to the extent that our

2 office can play a role in these issues, we

3 would like to bring a sense of, you now,

4 vigor and dispatch to the Agency's decision

5 making in order to benefit, you know, not

6 just the industry, but ultimately consumers.

7 MS. HERRERA: Okay. If I could

8 just quickly say, that's great to hear. And

9 I would just encourage you to look not only

10 at that, but also within the FCC and your

11 current roles.

12 COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.

13 MS. HERRERA: You have customer

14 service regulations that you have not updated

15 since they were first enacted in '92 and

16 where you are limited in what you can

17 enforce, you yourself wrote the rules and

18 your lack of updating them inhibits the

19 services you can provide.

20 Your cable standards are still

21 analog, not digital.

22 COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. HERRERA: We have a petition

2 that has been pending on the AT&T that has

3 been sitting out there for three years, so we

4 would be happy to let -- do that, but I would

5 just sort of encourage you. There is a long

6 list of stuff that you have got in-house that

7 probably is in some work process.

8 COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.

9 MS. HERRERA: And so giving it a

10 kickstart may be what you need and you could

11 probably knock them out pretty quick.

12 COMMISSIONER PAI: Absolutely.

13 Please, do let us know. I mean, don't -- we

14 have an open door policy in our office and we

15 welcome, you know, if there are specific

16 docket numbers or proceedings that you want

17 us to take a look at, do let us know, because

18 we have already taken action on a few things.

19 And my previous iteration of the

20 general counsel's office, I was always amazed

21 that there are some proceedings that had been

22 lingering for a couple of decades, in some

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 cases without action. So if I have anything

2 to say about it, that won't continue to be

3 the case.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, thank you so

5 much, Commissioner, for giving us your time.

6 And we look forward to seeing you again.

7 COMMISSIONER PAI: Thanks.

8 CHAIR BERLYN: So thank you very

9 much.

10 COMMISSIONER PAI: Thanks for

11 having me. Appreciate it.

12 (Applause)

13 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So we are

14 talking here. We have so many questions, so

15 many questions, so little time. And that

16 just seems to always happen. But I don't --

17 this is so important and we do want to figure

18 out-- we have our own process where we are

19 going to be helping you with this, so we need

20 to be well-informed.

21 We also need to take a break and

22 we have a panel coming up. I'm wondering,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Scott, if when we -- we probably do have time

2 in the afternoon to -- we will be talking

3 about this process. And I'm wondering if

4 Deborah and Sharon might be willing to come

5 back when we are talking about our process,

6 if there is some time, when we might be able

7 to continue this discussion with questions.

8 And maybe during our -- why don't

9 we take a five minute break now and we will

10 figure this out, because I don't -- we don't

11 want to lose your questions in this process,

12 because this is so important.

13 So let's see if we can figure

14 that out. Let's take a five or maybe --

15 let's be realistic. Let's take a 10 minute

16 break, but, please, be back. Thank you.

17 (Whereupon, at 10:45 a.m. a

18 recess until 11:03 a.m.)

19 CHAIR BERLYN: So just to let you

20 all know, what we are going to do with our

21 schedule is that I've got Sharon and Deborah

22 are going to come back at 11:50. And we are

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 going to carve a little bit of time out of

2 the Spectrum session at 11:50 and start our

3 Spectrum session after -- we will have about

4 15 minutes for questions with Sharon and

5 Deborah.

6 Then we will start out Spectrum

7 session and slide our lunch -- we will see

8 how much time we need for the Spectrum

9 session. We have probably a little bit more

10 time on the Spectrum session than we might

11 need. We will see. But then we will see if

12 we get back on schedule or not, but we can

13 slide a little into the lunch if we need to.

14 So we will have them back at

15 11:50, just to let you know.

16 So we have a panel here. Before

17 I introduce our panel, I know a number of

18 people came in a little late this morning, so

19 now is an opportunity to point out who you

20 are and have you introduce yourselves to the

21 group very quickly. Just say your name and

22 identify who you are with.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So let's go around the room. If

2 you didn't get a chance to introduce

3 yourselves this morning, please, do so now.

4 MR. SCHROEDER: Okay. Well, I'm

5 one of them, Paul Schroeder, American

6 Foundation for the Blind. I've been on time

7 every other meeting though.

8 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.

9 MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard,

10 National Association of State Utility

11 Consumer Advocates.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: And make sure you

13 raise your hand, because -- and give it a

14 second, because the booth sometimes doesn't

15 see you and then we don't have it recorded.

16 So say it again, Charlie.

17 MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard,

18 National Association --

19 CHAIR BERLYN: It's still not up.

20 MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard,

21 National Association of State Utility

22 Consumer Advocates.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: There we go.

2 Anyone else on this side? Towards the back,

3 anyone in the back? Oh, wait, there.

4 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker. Is it

5 on? Chris Baker with AARP.

6 MS. LEECH: Irene Leech.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Got you.

8 MS. LEECH: With the Consumer

9 Federation of America.

10 MS. WEIN: Olivia Wein, National

11 Consumer Law Center.

12 MS. KEARNEY: Julie Kearney,

13 Consumer Electronics Association. And this

14 is like the walk of shame.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: I really didn't

16 intend that.

17 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,

18 Cable and Broadband Administrator from

19 Montgomery County. And I am in fine company.

20 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you

21 all. I just wanted to make sure that you

22 were recognized.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Okay. So now, we are really

2 fortunate. This is a topic, of course as you

3 all know, that is so important, the Broadband

4 Adoption issue. And our Broadband Working

5 Group, Mark and Kris, our Working Group

6 Chairs, could also pipe in on this, but we

7 have three folks here: Cecilia who is a

8 Member of our CAC, of course, and two others

9 who are joining us to talk about Broadband

10 Adoption.

11 I will very quickly introduce

12 them. Sitting right next to me, Elizabeth

13 Crocker, who is with the Foundation for Rural

14 Services, which is NTCA, National Telephone

15 -- Telecom Cooperative. It's no longer

16 telephone. It used to be telephone. Now,

17 it's -- now, everything is telecom.

18 Telecommunications Cooperative Association.

19 And sitting next to her is Thomas

20 Koutsky, Chief Policy Counsel, with

21 Connection Nation.

22 And our three panelists today are

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 going to give us some updates on Broadband

2 Adoption from various different perspectives.

3 And so we are really pleased to have them

4 here today. We didn't discuss an order for

5 this, but I think it might be helpful to have

6 Tom to have you start us off, because I know

7 you have some stats and things like that for

8 us.

9 MR. KOUTSKY: Okay. Sure, happy

10 to. And if you could call up -- I have a

11 slide presentation that is -- there we go.

12 That was simple. It's like magic.

13 MR. SCHROEDER: Debra, just

14 quickly, I apologize. I'm sorry, Paul

15 Schroeder with AFB. Tom, I could not open

16 your PowerPoint and it came late, in any

17 event, so, please, be sure to speak up --

18 speak out any of the information that's on

19 the screen that needs to be communicated,

20 because it's not going to be accessible, at

21 least to me and perhaps others.

22 MR. KOUTSKY: Sure. I will do my

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 best and I will -- but to put a word of

2 warning on that, I have a bunch of slides

3 that I have pulled from different

4 presentations that have a lot of just

5 adoption numbers. I don't intend to speak to

6 them all. I really just kind of wanted to

7 illustrate. I'll do my best to describe what

8 I'm trying to -- the points I'm trying to

9 illustrate.

10 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.

11 MR. KOUTSKY: And then get you

12 another copy that you can open.

13 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.

14 MR. KOUTSKY: Just, you know, I

15 would like to -- I'm really thankful and

16 appreciative of the invitation from Debbie

17 and the FCC to speak here today. You know, I

18 used to work at this -- actually, as we

19 looked at the former Commissioners or the new

20 Commissioners, I used to work at this Agency

21 as well. I have had two stints at the FCC.

22 Most recently on the National Broadband Plant

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2 very deeply about.

3 And it is -- what is interesting

4 about my current job is that I'm able to kind

5 of go and study questions and issues related

6 to Broadband Adoption and the utilization

7 that are facing America's communities.

8 And there was one really point

9 about -- I've been like a telecommunications

10 infrastructure guy, basically, for much of my

11 career working with a lot of start-up

12 telephone companies. And coming to the

13 National Broadband Team here at the FCC

14 really made an impression on me in terms of

15 thinking about the adoption and use challenge

16 that this nation has.

17 I mean, we can kind of debate and

18 we spend -- oh, I don't even want to know how

19 much money we spend here, it's over $4

20 billion a year on infrastructure subsidies to

21 get broadband out to rural areas. And that's

22 certainly needed in a lot of instances and in

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2 But when we have an important

3 infrastructure that, you know, is absolutely

4 critical to economic growth and social

5 development and we have a third of the nation

6 not adopting it or using it, you know,

7 sufficiently, that's a significant economic

8 drag upon our country's economic future and

9 social development.

10 And, you know, there are even

11 some instances, as I started in my current

12 job, we have worked basically with, I'll just

13 kind of fast-forward ahead in the slideshow,

14 states and local governments to help them

15 understand the broadband challenges that they

16 face. We operate through the NTIA, State

17 Broadband Initiative Grant Program. I have

18 listed the states and areas here.

19 And to really let communities and

20 states know about the challenges they face.

21 And so this, I think, is really important

22 that you are talking about Broadband Adoption

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2 adoption perspective, because it's absolutely

3 critical that our country face these problems

4 and that this Agency face this problem in a

5 realistic problem-solving way, not a headline

6 grabbing way, but in terms of actually doing

7 some tangible -- getting some tangible

8 results.

9 This is -- again, these are some

10 very basic facts. You all hear this. If you

11 read enough speeches from FCC Commissioners,

12 you get all of these points eventually, so

13 I'm not going to dwell on them.

14 But the real important point is

15 that as long as we have a third of the

16 country that hasn't adopted broadband, two

17 things happen. First of all, this has a

18 direct impact on the case for future

19 broadband investment and growth in terms of

20 the network side. You know, it's very

21 difficult to get constantly upgraded networks

22 if there is -- you know, if they are not

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2 economic and social development.

3 We have seen in recent years with

4 the economic difficulties in this country, a

5 definite flattening in the Broadband Adoption

6 curve. And this is -- you know, if there is

7 like one or two points you take away from one

8 another about the -- what to talk about, you

9 know, look at this graph on the right which

10 really shows an adoption of broadband to

11 undertaking an S-curve pattern, where it

12 starts off very low and then it escalates

13 beginning in 2001/2002 rather sharply up to

14 until it runs across about 60 percent of the

15 United States households and then it flattens

16 off.

17 It flattens off in 2009/2010 and

18 even starts to dip. And, you know, the dip

19 is actually really concerning, because it

20 does indicate that there is some, you know as

21 an economist would say, elasticity of demand

22 for broadband service.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 At certain prices, you know,

2 people start to think twice about buying it

3 and then in economic difficulties, they start

4 to think twice, you know, they even start to

5 think about disconnecting it. so that

6 flattening is really, really important.

7 On the Broadband Plant Team, we

8 have built a lot of the design assumption.

9 This is actually called a Gompertz curve.

10 There is a phrase for this S-curve adoption

11 and you see it for every technology, consumer

12 technology that has been put in place from

13 color TVs to VCRs to, you know, computers.

14 They all follow this S-curve type adoption.

15 They all flatten out in some way.

16 Now, for color TV, I think you

17 could probably argue that at around 95

18 percent of TVs, you know, it's not that big

19 of a deal. But for broadband technology, if

20 that S-curve flattens out at 65 percent, we

21 have a significant social challenge and

22 economic challenge in our country, because

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2 that, you know, will not have the same

3 opportunities for their kids, will face it

4 more increasingly difficult to even do some

5 things such as accessing basic Government

6 services.

7 There was an interesting set of

8 studies on how expensive it is to be poor in

9 this country. It is actually very expensive

10 to be poor, because if you are limited and if

11 you don't have a car and you're limited to

12 the neighborhood grocery store, you pay for

13 more milk. And if you have to take half a

14 day to get your Social Security check

15 processed and wait in line, because you don't

16 have on-line access to do the same function,

17 that costs you money. That is time you had

18 to put your kids, you know, in child care or

19 that you had to take off of work.

20 Just a few slides and again, you

21 know, we're happy to talk about, you know,

22 certainly these numbers. Whenever I think

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2 almost instinctively, you know, moved towards

3 thinking about the adoption gap among the

4 elderly, because she is such a good advocate

5 for the groups that she has worked with, that

6 they do stick out.

7 So I have, you know, indulged her

8 with some statistics about, you know,

9 difference in adoption and ages. And I think

10 the important thing to see here from this

11 slide are not the numbers themselves, but to

12 understand that there are different reasons

13 why people don't adopt broadband service.

14 And they do vary by age and demographic

15 group.

16 What we see here is that for

17 young Americans or younger households, ages

18 18 to 54, the largest barrier to entry is

19 cost. These numbers were actually

20 demonstrated by or were gathered through

21 state surveys that Connected Nation has done

22 in our, you know, eight states and we have

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2 And we asked -- you know, these

3 are scientific surveys, calling up people and

4 asking them what's the main reason you don't

5 buy broadband and really kind of

6 rationalizing this.

7 So for younger Americans age 18

8 to 54, you know, the predominant reason they

9 don't subscribe is cost. It's about 33

10 percent of them cite that as a reason.

11 For older Americans, age 70 and

12 older, the predominant reason they don't

13 subscribe is relevance. I mean, it was

14 stated, you know, there is a lot of ways that

15 they can state relevance. We kind of grouped

16 them up into relevance.

17 And then kind of in the middle is

18 digital literacy or a lack of digital skills.

19 You know, also it does vary by age. I think

20 this is important, because what it does --

21 you know, this is a little bit more about

22 senior technology adoption to show that even

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2 -- there is a wide range of demographic

3 differences.

4 I mean, even -- I'll just point

5 out one, which is if all seniors over age

6 70-- the Broadband Adoption rate is 30

7 percent. But of seniors over 70 that live

8 alone, the adoption rate is 17 percent.

9 These are the individuals that would stand to

10 gain the most by being connected to the rest

11 of the world and their adoption rate is,

12 basically, as low as you see in just about

13 any community.

14 And I think that's rather

15 striking. Again, this is one of the neat

16 things about my job is I get to tell the

17 survey guys what to survey. And so --

18 MR. McELDOWNEY: Did you control

19 for cost?

20 MR. KOUTSKY: We did. Well,

21 not-- in terms of control for cost? These

22 are -- this is not -- we do -- I do in

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2 have a different analysis that tries to

3 separate out using a regression analysis.

4 This is really just more of a statement of

5 adoption rates.

6 That is an interesting paper that

7 we are going to be releasing in a couple of

8 weeks, that's why I had to double check

9 myself, because I might have stolen the wrong

10 slide.

11 This is barriers. This is a

12 slide that really kind of articulates some

13 significant barriers among the different

14 demographic group, which is low-income

15 households with children. And again, I think

16 the reason this type of research is important

17 is because it tells us what we need to do in

18 terms of solutions.

19 We cannot have a one-size-fits-

20 all. I'm going to skip ahead in the interest

21 of time. We need to have solutions that are

22 targeted towards bridging the specific gap

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2 that is aimed at lowering the cost of

3 Broadband Adoption is going to work in some

4 communities or in some demographic groups

5 potentially, such as low-income households

6 with kids, where, frankly, those families

7 don't need to be told about the importance

8 and relevance of broadband to the future of

9 their children.

10 I mean, families understand that.

11 So these are the families that are piling

12 into libraries, you know, constantly now, so

13 students can do their homework. So for them,

14 cost is the main barrier.

15 For a group like senior citizens

16 or, you know, other Americans, you know, a

17 similarly situated American, such as those

18 that live alone or other low-income families

19 without children, lack of digital skills,

20 lack of relevance are main barriers.

21 To overcome this challenge, we

22 need to target the solutions based on the

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2 it and then you need to assess and analyze

3 the success stories.

4 A couple really things I want to

5 leave you with that are initiatives that are

6 happening right now, the FCC has proposed to

7 spend some portion of the Universal Service

8 Fund on digital literacy funding. This is an

9 open proceeding right now. You know, I filed

10 comments. There are things about the

11 proposal before the FCC that I would do

12 differently than the way they have done it.

13 I'm happy to talk more in detail

14 about it, but I do think this is an important

15 opening that the Commission has signaled to

16 say we think digital literacy or a lack of

17 digital skills is a barrier to Broadband

18 Adoption and we are proposing to use

19 Universal Service Funds to help bridge that

20 gap.

21 I think, you know, as a group or

22 as individual, you know, entities with a

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2 proceeding you may want to think about

3 getting involved in, either as a CAC or as

4 your individual groups, because the FCC

5 really could stand to hear a lot of voices

6 about the need for digital literacy and

7 training in that proceeding.

8 You can't really see this because

9 of the closed captioning, but another

10 initiative the Commission has going on right

11 now is a proposal to spend $25 million on a

12 Broadband Pilot Project for their low-income

13 fund, the Lifeline Fund.

14 Those of you that have been

15 around the circle for a while know that the

16 Lifeline Fund is a targeted Universal Service

17 Fund of over $2 billion a year that is

18 targeted towards low-income purchase -- low-

19 income consumers who purchase VoIP service.

20 The FCC launched a genuine -- we

21 heard a bit about this this morning, they

22 launched a genuine -- a general revamping of

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2 opened the door to transforming that program

3 into a broadband support program.

4 These are pilots. This is a

5 pilot process that is basically going to take

6 the next year. The FCC has solicited

7 applications from service providers who are

8 the recipients of these funds. Those

9 applications are due on July 2nd.

10 The idea behind the pilot is to

11 come up with measurable data as to what types

12 of price points would persuade low-income

13 Americans to buy broadband. There is a focus

14 on price as a barrier in this proceeding,

15 which I know I just said you wouldn't want to

16 have a singular focus. They have tried to

17 build-in digital literacy and other

18 components into this program, but they

19 haven't proposed or subsidized that in the

20 context of a pilot.

21 So there are some problematic

22 aspects to the way the FCC has established

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2 details, that is something else for this

3 group, I think, would be interested in

4 monitoring and understanding where -- you

5 know, what the Commission does with the

6 results of these pilots.

7 I'm going to conclude really

8 quickly here and just kind of note that, you

9 know, honestly, this year is a critical year

10 with regard to the FCC's adoption programs

11 and initiatives.

12 There has been a lot of talk

13 about doing things. There has been a lot of

14 ideas floated around. There has been a lot

15 of discussion about adoption being an issue

16 that the Commission intends to really grab

17 hold of. They do deserve credit for the

18 Lifeline Pilot Program and for proposing

19 digital literacy training as part as USF.

20 But this coming year will be the

21 year where we will find out whether or not

22 those proposals will come to fruition and in

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2 will we see the targeted -- you know, will we

3 see the pilot programs go to areas that need

4 it? I skipped over a couple slides, but one

5 important fact that came out recently was

6 that the Territory of Puerto Rico has a

7 Broadband Adoption rate of 31 percent.

8 The Territory of Puerto Rico is

9 larger than half of the states in the United

10 States in terms of population. If the State

11 of Delaware -- if we were looking and saw

12 that the State of Delaware had a 31 percent

13 adoption rate, while New Jersey had, you

14 know, 85 percent and Pennsylvania had 75

15 percent, you know, honestly, the Chairman of

16 the FCC would be driving over to Dover to

17 give speeches about solving the Broadband

18 Adoption gap in Delaware.

19 That's the situation in Puerto

20 Rico right now. 31 percent. That has a

21 cascading effect on the island. And so, you

22 know, we will see if there is -- you know,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 I'm hopeful that some of these initiatives

2 that have been announced and that some of the

3 programs that have been proposed will go to

4 places like Puerto Rico in a very targeted

5 fashion.

6 Where, honestly, you know, in a

7 way when you are at 31 percent, it might

8 even, you know, be a little bit easier to

9 show success because it is clearly a

10 significant problem for the Territory and the

11 Territory and the Government is really trying

12 to press forward and come up with tangible

13 solutions.

14 You know, and the other point is

15 that -- I think Cecilia can talk about this,

16 but a lot of the BTOP programs that were

17 funded for Broadband Adoption are going to

18 start to wind down next year. You know, some

19 of the original programs that were given

20 funding in 2009 were two or three year

21 programs.

22 And, you know, what do we do with

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2 to figure out which ones were successful and,

3 you know, in this next year we are going to

4 need to decide whether we are going to wind

5 those down or not or whether we are going to

6 reinvest in them.

7 And with that, I will turn it

8 over to the rest of the panel.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. So,

10 Elizabeth?

11 MS. CROCKER: All right. I'm

12 Elizabeth Crocker, the Executive Director of

13 the Foundation for Rural Service. And as

14 Debra mentioned, we are the philanthropic arm

15 of NTCA, which represents rural telecom

16 carriers all across the country.

17 So we have about 600 rural

18 telecom companies that we work with and about

19 400 associate members who provide services to

20 those folks. And it has really been a very

21 interesting couple of years for us as well.

22 We really started the foundation as more

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2 primarily and that's definitely changed over

3 the past few years and we have really had to

4 branch out and now we are in a lot of

5 different areas.

6 We have done a paper which I

7 talked to Debra quite a bit about on Aging in

8 Place and the role of broadband. We are

9 working on a Smart Agriculture Paper with the

10 role of broadband. We are just doing a lot

11 of different things and part of the reason we

12 are doing them is because our rural

13 communities need so much more right now.

14 I'm laughing as he is talking, I

15 was here two weeks ago with 100 teenagers

16 from all over rural America sitting in this

17 room listening to four of our Commissioners

18 speak. And one of the questions one of the

19 Commissioners asked was how many of you, we

20 had 16, 17 year-olds, have helped your

21 parents and your grandparents learn how to

22 get on the Internet and pretty much every kid

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2 So it's kind of fun to see that

3 statistic and then see it in reality as well.

4 The interesting thing about the

5 foundation, we do a lot of different things.

6 We do build stuffers and mailers for our

7 telephone companies to educate the rural

8 customers, so we are working on Internet

9 safety, on-line safety. We just did one on

10 cyber-bullying.

11 We are going to do a mailer on

12 Aging in Place and they can get that

13 information out to their customers. We do

14 White Papers. And I brought our most recent

15 one, because we have been talking about it a

16 lot and I would be happy to give you a copy

17 if you are interest on Aging in Place and the

18 opportunities that are out there.

19 We are really trying to encourage

20 our telephone companies and our

21 telecommunication companies to see the

22 potential in these opportunities, because if

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2 provide these services, the community is

3 stronger, they have a larger customer base.

4 There is a lot of win-wins and this is just

5 -- it was a great sort of synergy for us in

6 reaching out to new communities.

7 I want to talk about a couple of

8 different things. The first one is our grant

9 program, because we have had some really fun

10 success stories with that. So I'm really the

11 grassroots person. I'm the one who is out

12 there. I'm talking to our members. I'm in

13 the rural communities and I see some of the

14 stuff in action.

15 And I had talked to them a few

16 weeks ago about one of our telecom companies

17 in Oregon, which I just love this story, but

18 it's Clear Creek in Oregon. And I walked

19 into their office and said well, why do you

20 have all these laptops in the lobby and all

21 these computers set up in the lobby? And

22 they had some teenagers sitting there working

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2 interesting. Is this some kind of work

3 program?

4 Well, no, they just hire

5 teenagers to come in after school and sit in

6 the lobby, because they find that so many

7 people come in to pay their bills, which I

8 know and I have said this before, it's

9 unimaginable for us in Washington that people

10 actually go in to the company and pay their

11 bill in person, we don't do that here.

12 But it is in rural communities

13 something that happens very regularly. And

14 they have the teenagers there surfing the

15 Internet and, you know, they have folks well,

16 what are you doing and sit down next to them

17 and talk to them. And, you know, the next

18 thing you know, they are showing them things

19 on the Internet.

20 It's a very, very basic

21 grassroots level, but it's something that is

22 kind of fun and that works.

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2 State, one of our board members actually at

3 FRS was telling me that he had a jump from 40

4 percent to 70 percent through his BTOP

5 Program. And part of it was really just the

6 computer process they offered on-site at

7 their telecom. And that is something that I

8 think our Rural Telecom Members do amazingly

9 well.

10 Our customers have -- excuse me,

11 our telecommunications companies have amazing

12 customer service, phenomenal customer

13 service. They have Geek Squads, they have

14 folks that are going into people's homes and

15 helping them. And the real difference for

16 them is if somebody has a problem with their

17 broadband, with their connection, with

18 anything going on in their home, they see

19 those folks in the grocery store.

20 The general manager of that

21 company sees them at church on Sunday, at the

22 grocery store on Monday and those people are

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2 town, there is nowhere to run. So they

3 really and truly thrive on good customer

4 service and it's very, very important to our

5 members.

6 One of the other ones I love

7 talking about and somebody had mentioned it

8 last time or asked me about a mobile computer

9 lab and if anyone had done anything with

10 that. We had just given a grant in 2011 to

11 Lake Pearl Economic Development Authority in

12 Minnesota for a mobile computer lab and our

13 money kind of finished off their project and

14 allowed them to move forward with this.

15 So they have a sort of shuttle

16 bus that goes to six different communities.

17 It is handicap accessible. They have a

18 Kindle, an iPad, a digital camera and seven

19 computers on the bus and they actually drive

20 around to different communities to senior

21 centers. They really focus on seniors and

22 sort of below-income levels and they really

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2 a very grassroots level again.

3 They sent me a picture of it last

4 night. I was calling and asking them some

5 questions about the program and how it was

6 going and it's just -- it's really, really

7 cool to see that in action. They are

8 actually serving 30 people a week right now,

9 which may not seem like a lot to us here in

10 Washington, but for a small rural community,

11 that's a lot of folks that they are reaching

12 through that program.

13 One other thing that we are doing

14 at the foundation is we are doing foundations

15 of computing and basic digital literacy

16 classes. And this one is kind of surprising,

17 I think, but when we go to one of NTCA's

18 meetings with 3,000 telecom association

19 folks, we have a lot of people who are on the

20 board of directors of these companies. And

21 many of them have been on that board for 20,

22 30, 40 years.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 They are not necessarily telecom

2 people with a telecom background. Many of

3 them are farmers. And so, you know, they

4 come in and you would think they might have a

5 stronger background, but they don't. So we

6 actually offered a class at a recent meeting

7 and just had an overwhelming popularity for a

8 basic digital literacy class.

9 And it is interesting, you know,

10 the first thing a lot of them ask is well,

11 how do I Skype with my grandkids? So that's

12 -- but it's always a great inlet and it's a

13 great way to get people interested and

14 engaged in it. I have a wonderful slide, I

15 wish I had it with me today, of one of my

16 friends children at 6 months-old. She has

17 her baby in a Bumbo seat Skyping with her

18 grandmother across the country in a rural

19 community.

20 But I love that photo, because it

21 really shows what opportunities are out there

22 and what a great way to see and get people

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 engaged and interested and maybe they can

2 take that next step.

3 So, I mean, we have a lot of

4 kinds of things going on at the foundation.

5 I would be happy to talk to you all about

6 them in more detail, but it's just a very

7 exciting time for us.

8 I kind of let the folks at NTCA

9 work on the policy side and the lobbying

10 side, that's their gig. So when we start

11 getting into infrastructure and costs, I

12 defer those questions to them.

13 But on the foundation side, we

14 are really about investing in our rural

15 communities and making sure they have tools

16 they need.

17 And I will tell you just on a

18 side note as well, our 100 teenagers that

19 were here last week, two weeks ago, they

20 asked some pretty tough questions. I've got

21 to say the Commissioners, I think, were a

22 little taken back by some of the questions

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 they asked. But it was kind of fun to see

2 how engaged they were in this whole sort of

3 issue talking about digital divide between

4 rural and urban areas, in terms of adoption

5 and that sort of thing.

6 And so I think we have a really

7 great group of young people coming up that

8 are asking some of these tough questions and

9 hoping to push some of these adoption issues

10 forward for their communities as well.

11 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you,

12 Elizabeth. Cecilia?

13 MS. GARCIA: Thank you, Debra. I

14 would like to thank Debra and the Broadband

15 Working Group for giving me an opportunity to

16 talk about a very interesting gathering that

17 the Benton Foundation and Connected Living

18 co-hosted. And some of you were actually

19 there. Debra was in the audience and Mitsi

20 was in the audience, Chris Baker helped me

21 out on one of the panels.

22 We had decided some time ago,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 based on our involvement in Illinois with the

2 Connected Living BTOP Program to look deeper

3 into some of the policy solutions that might

4 emerge from this major federal investment

5 that has been made. And as Tom points out is

6 coming to an end very soon in the BTOP

7 Sustainable Broadband Adoption and Public

8 Computer Center grants that had been made in

9 2009.

10 And so what we are -- what we

11 wanted to do was take a look specifically at,

12 what we consider, one of the most vulnerable

13 populations and that's low-income elderly.

14 And the NTIA had identified about 20 programs

15 funded through the BTOP grants that addressed

16 issues or actually provided services for

17 unserved and under-served communities of low-

18 income elderly.

19 So what we did on the 22nd was

20 tried to take a very close look at one of

21 those projects that had built-in evaluation

22 from the very beginning of the process. And

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 unfortunately, when BTOP started, there were

2 a number of us, including Charles Benton, who

3 sat on this CAC for several terms, who made a

4 lot of meetings here at the FCC, but

5 primarily at NTIA, at the time, asking what

6 efforts are going to be made to evaluate this

7 investment from the beginning, so that we

8 know what approaches work in what

9 communities, what solutions can be made mid-

10 course, so that at the end of this

11 investment, we come away with really strong

12 data similar to what Tom was talking about

13 about what approaches work and how then to

14 use that to inform policy as we move forward

15 in bringing the entire nation into good use

16 of 21st Century telecommunications

17 technology. We need to do that.

18 Unfortunately, I think, very few

19 projects really had the same kind of

20 attention to strong third-party evaluations

21 that Connected Living had. We looked at that

22 as a real asset for that project.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 We found some very interesting

2 findings, based on at least their initial

3 evaluation. They will be doing their last

4 round of surveys and final evaluation this

5 summer. But some of the things that they are

6 looking at are -- in addition to the barriers

7 that Tom had pointed out, I think what

8 emerged from the discussions on May 22nd were

9 some additional barriers.

10 And one of the -- for this, the

11 low-income elderly anxiety is one of those

12 intangible barriers that, as a person

13 increases in age, becomes even more apparent

14 when it comes to technology.

15 And again, you have seen this

16 through every new iteration of technology.

17 It doesn't matter if it is -- it goes from

18 the radio to -- all the way through broadband

19 access. As we get older, there is a fear

20 that if you touch something new, you might

21 break it. If you touch the computer, you're

22 going to break it.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So what implications does that

2 have on how we do sustainable Broadband

3 Adoption training? Do we do it in a person's

4 home? And I think there is a tension that

5 kind of emerged throughout the day on the

6 22nd. There were those who were saying we

7 really have to have a computer in every

8 elderly person's living space, so that they

9 are always connected. They always have

10 access.

11 Then there are others who argued

12 equally passionately that no, what is more

13 important is where does that person learn

14 best? Is it maybe in a senior housing

15 project, if there is a computer lab on-site?

16 Instead of having a computer in that person's

17 living space, if they are in a common area

18 where there is access to trainers and access

19 to other people and access to, you know, the

20 kind of support that they need right then, it

21 may be better for them in that learning.

22 So in other words, as Tom pointed

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 out, there is no one-size-fits-all solution

2 to bringing this most vulnerable population

3 on-line.

4 We will have -- I don't want to

5 talk about the whole day, because we spent

6 eight hours at this. It was very

7 interesting. We looked at -- we did -- Tony

8 Wilhelm actually came in from NTIA and gave

9 luncheon remarks.

10 And the interesting thing/point

11 that he made is that by 2015, there will be

12 more people in the United States over the age

13 of 60 than under the age of 15. I thought

14 that was very compelling. I guess, you know,

15 my thinking was just the opposite. That, you

16 know, the younger age cohorts were greater in

17 number, but the fact is we are an aging

18 population.

19 And so we have to pay attention

20 to this, because low-income seniors are not

21 part of the digital economy. And we need to

22 make sure that we do whatever we can learn,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 whatever we can from this major federal

2 investment. We can't let it go to waste.

3 We have to see what can we learn

4 from BTOP. How can we adopt those to

5 policies that bring everyone on-line in a

6 comfortable way, in a way that protects their

7 privacy, that helps with the anxiety.

8 There is another finding that we

9 heard from a number of speakers who said that

10 contrary to popular opinion, issues of

11 isolation are actually mitigated when elderly

12 begin to get engaged on-line.

13 There was this theory that has

14 been floating around that the more we engage

15 in computers and we're stuck to -- you know,

16 instead of face-to-face communications with

17 people, that we get more isolated.

18 Well, at least anecdotally, the

19 Digital Inclusion Initiative that was done by

20 Senior Service America in collaboration with

21 Generations On-Line is finding just the

22 opposite. That as people get more engaged

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 with family communications, with seeing the

2 world outside of their living quarters,

3 that's actually helping to fight isolation.

4 The other thing that we learned

5 that I think is very exciting and

6 particularly pertinent to any efforts in

7 terms of developing a digital literacy core,

8 at least two of the projects that we talked

9 to on May 22nd reported back that peer

10 coaching, seniors who come through a training

11 and then turn around and begin to train their

12 peers, it's a very successful approach in at

13 least two of the projects.

14 Intergenerational is also a very

15 good approach and the New York OATS Project

16 shows a lot of good synergy between young

17 people and the elderly. But again, peer-to-

18 peer also is very, very significant.

19 And I want to stop there, because

20 I would like to hear questions from the

21 audience around this.

22 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you all.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 That was great. We got so much information

2 there. Fantastic. So let's do -- Chris, is

3 your card up for a question? Excellent.

4 Okay. Raise your hand and identify yourself.

5 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker.

6 CHAIR BERLYN: Actually, you

7 weren't on.

8 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker. Chris

9 Baker?

10 CHAIR BERLYN: Hello, over there

11 in the booth? Let's try it again.

12 MR. BAKER: Mark DeFalco?

13 CHAIR BERLYN: I think you are on

14 now. I think you are on.

15 MR. BAKER: That worked?

16 CHAIR BERLYN: I think that

17 worked.

18 MR. BAKER: Okay. Well, I just

19 want to thank the panelists for coming. A

20 lot of interesting information. Although, I

21 do have to admit, I'm a little disappointed

22 with the -- some of the statistics that they

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 didn't include any mention of quality and the

2 quality of broadband.

3 It's so important. I mean, you

4 know, saying you have Broadband Adoption is

5 sort of like saying well, you don't have to

6 walk. You know, you can take a bike. You

7 can take a car. You can fly in an airplane.

8 It's not the same thing.

9 And it's important to recognize

10 that the services that can help older adults

11 in many ways require a little more quality

12 and speed. So that's point one.

13 Point two, I think digital

14 literacy is so important. And I agree with

15 you, I'm -- I think the Benton Foundation's

16 work on this is great.

17 But, you know, it's also

18 important to look at the technology as well,

19 you know, digital literacy is about trying to

20 get people to adapt to the technology. I

21 think it's also important to have technology

22 that works for people. And making these

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2 think, will get rid of a lot of the anxiety

3 that older adults have.

4 And there just doesn't seem to be

5 as much focus on that in the policy circles.

6 So --

7 MS. CROCKER: I would love to

8 jump in on that one if you don't mind.

9 MR. BAKER: Sure.

10 MS. CROCKER: Because this paper

11 that we just put out really addresses that.

12 And one thing we are really encouraging our

13 telecos to do, a few of them have taken a

14 really strong lead on it and we are trying to

15 show that as an example and say look at what

16 all, you know, the other companies can do.

17 And they are really offering

18 opportunities for folks to Age in Place with

19 remote monitoring and video conferencing. In

20 fact, one of our board members from Tennessee

21 told me she just went to all five hospitals

22 and have out this paper and started talking

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 to them about video conferencing.

2 One of the interesting things in

3 there was psychiatry, which is one of the

4 easiest things to do. And really especially

5 for people in rural communities who are so

6 far from specialists, that have to drive so

7 far to get some place, they might not

8 actually do it, but they might go to their

9 local hospital that doesn't necessarily have

10 a specialist, but get on-line and do a video

11 conference.

12 So we really are trying to

13 provide some of those opportunities and

14 encourage -- for us again, it's a win-win.

15 The telecos have a broader business base.

16 They are investing in their community making

17 it stronger and we are really providing

18 better services for the folks who live there.

19 So we really are trying to do

20 that more and more in our membership.

21 MR. BAKER: Thanks.

22 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes, and I self-

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 edited in my slides, so I would be happy to

2 get with you afterwards, because we do have

3 -- you know, part of our surveys do include

4 quality and technology measurements, too. I

5 just didn't throw them up there. But I'm

6 happy to share those with you.

7 You know, actually, there is an

8 interplay here between supply and demand that

9 is important to understand. I actually think

10 for a lot of particular applications of

11 broadband technology would rely upon a

12 ubiquity of service networks. Particularly

13 of the wireless variety.

14 You know, a thing like a remote

15 monitoring device, you know, to help and

16 elderly diabetic patient, you know, remotely

17 monitor, you know, their condition over time,

18 does not necessarily require that person to

19 be a subscriber to broadband service.

20 What that requires is for

21 somebody to invent the device that utilizes

22 an LTE wireless network much like buying a

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2 Sprint subscriber, even though it uses the

3 Sprint Network to get you the book.

4 I think we will start to see a

5 lot more of those types of devices as 4G

6 service gets rolled out. I think we will

7 see a lot more device-type uses of broadband

8 that will benefit a lot of, particularly,

9 elderly, but also educational tools.

10 But at the same time, that is a

11 very useful thing to have, but also there is

12 the dependence on the ubiquity of that. I

13 mean, if that's only available to 85 percent

14 of the United States, that's now 15 percent,

15 that doesn't -- people won't be able to take

16 advantage of that device.

17 But also, it doesn't necessarily

18 engender the growth of technology skills that

19 our country needs from its work force. We

20 have an interesting job skills gap right now

21 where there is a shortage of workers

22 qualified to perform technology tools --

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2 you know, 8 percent unemployment and we have,

3 you know, more people out of work now than we

4 have had, you know, in most of our -- most of

5 the last generation.

6 So, you know, there is a skills

7 gap that also needs to be addressed, which, I

8 think, things like digital literacy training

9 and getting computers and devices into homes,

10 so that, you know -- and into schools will

11 help overcome that skills gap.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: I think Mitsi,

13 Lise, Mark.

14 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry, Ken.

16 Ken is in there somewhere. Sorry. Mitsi?

17 MS. HERRERA: Sorry. Mitsi

18 Herrera, Cable and Broadband Administrator

19 from Montgomery County.

20 I guess what I am interested in

21 is your outcome data and how that is driving

22 you to change things? In Montgomery County,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Comcast as part of the NBC Universal merger

2 had to launch the Internet Essentials Program

3 or at least market it, which is a $10 a month

4 service eligible to families who have a child

5 at the time it was eligible for free meals

6 and now they have expanded it to free and

7 reduced meals.

8 They have had a year of

9 experience with that program. In Montgomery

10 County, and so I'm saying this because I --

11 well, let me just say it. In Montgomery

12 County, there are 47,000 children in public

13 schools who are enrolled in free and reduced

14 meals. They thought that that might

15 translate out into 9,700 eligible households.

16 Of that, after a year, they had

17 353 families apply. They approved 202. And

18 there were 165 that were activated. That is

19 after a year of trying to promote this. They

20 worked somewhat with schools. They had

21 various messages that came out.

22 And I'm saying this because we

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 are working with Comcast and we actually had

2 a very good meeting. I think I copied

3 several people here on an agenda in which we

4 brought together people who are working with

5 low-income clients to try to see how to

6 expand that.

7 And the reason I point it out is

8 because what we are doing is not working.

9 And the reason that -- and the only reason we

10 know that it is not working is because we are

11 actually honest with ourselves about tracking

12 the outcomes of our efforts. And that is

13 spurring us to try to figure out new ways for

14 those things.

15 In particular, with that program,

16 we are trying to figure out we have people in

17 phone banks who are willing to set-up in low-

18 income houses, so that you can come down and

19 fill it out. We are trying to figure out a

20 plan of could you have them bring the letter

21 in which they are eligible for the program

22 and Comcast finds a way that they could fax

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2 there is somebody available to help you fill

3 out the forms.

4 And there is lot of different

5 moving parts, but getting back to that, I

6 point this out not because I want to

7 disparage what Comcast is doing, but to say

8 that it's hard and we have to think

9 differently and figure out how to partner

10 with people who have contacts.

11 So Tom, thank you very much for

12 the slides. Those are great slides. But can

13 you focus and talk about what other outcome

14 data are you looking at that helps us figure

15 out what we need to do differently?

16 MR. KOUTSKY: We look at the data

17 for our programs. I didn't mention that we

18 have two Broadband Adoption Projects that we

19 are working on, one in Ohio that is focused

20 on, almost exclusively, training. And

21 another one that is working with the Boys and

22 Girls Clubs in Tennessee that is focusing

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2 know, very targeted towards foster youth

3 families.

4 But so, you know, we are starting

5 our own program, so I can only speak about

6 the data. I think Cecilia, you know, does

7 make this great point that as these NTIA

8 programs start to roll-up, we need to analyze

9 that and we need to know facts like that

10 about programs like this.

11 When you are kind of in an

12 experimentation phase, I think you

13 shouldn't-- we can be disappointed, you know,

14 in things, but I think we shouldn't be too

15 surprised if certain approaches fail.

16 Honestly, you know, I think that

17 it's great that you are working with Comcast

18 to work on that project. You know, frankly,

19 you know, even though I said that cost was

20 the main barrier to entry for families with

21 -- low-income families with kids, it was

22 still only the main barrier to entry for

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2 The other barriers, such as

3 literacy, awareness, relevance, were still

4 there. So your universe of 9,000 households

5 was immediately shrunk to 4,000. You know,

6 if your -- if my numbers are right.

7 MS. HERRERA: Yes, and the --

8 MR. KOUTSKY: But I'm not

9 defending the program, because I think, you

10 know, myself, I would be not as focused on in

11 making sure we only sell this to people that

12 we truly know are low-income. Right? And I

13 think that you can get yourself caught up in

14 that verification and validation and

15 paperwork game to your -- I think that

16 becomes a problem, because it makes the

17 entire program more cumbersome.

18 But I do think it is important

19 that if you just have a program that is

20 basically just focused on cost, right, you

21 are saying that I don't care about 60 percent

22 of the problem, basically. I'm going to look

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2 households.

3 So I think that there is part of

4 that going on here, too. But understanding

5 it and trying to devise different ways of

6 reaching that audience, I think, is an

7 important second step.

8 MS. HERRERA: Just wait. Are you

9 tracking when they come into your programs,

10 even the non-cost ones?

11 MR. KOUTSKY: Oh, yes.

12 MS. HERRERA: You track -- if you

13 weren't --

14 MR. KOUTSKY: We do.

15 MS. HERRERA: -- using it before,

16 at the end of the program, are you tracking?

17 Do you now sign up and get it?

18 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.

19 MS. HERRERA: And do you have

20 that data?

21 MR. KOUTSKY: We do for our

22 training programs that we have, which is a

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2 training, so we know who the person is and we

3 give them an account. And we kind of, you

4 know, figure out a way to try and reach them

5 a year later.

6 We have -- that program has been

7 in place for a year, so we are just now at

8 that point of coming back to people and

9 saying are you still on-line? Our initial --

10 we do surveys at the conclusion of training

11 to say are you likely to buy broadband now?

12 Are you more likely to buy broadband than you

13 were at the beginning of the training,

14 etcetera?

15 Those numbers have become very

16 positive. But, you know, part of our

17 evaluation now is to kind of go back and ask

18 those people again, are you still a broadband

19 subscriber or did you ever actually buy that

20 computer you said you were going to buy?

21 We also, by focusing on training,

22 tend to end up with more motivated people.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 People walk into a training class for a

2 reason. They want to do it because they

3 tried to apply for a job a couple of weeks

4 ago and they couldn't figure out how to do

5 it.

6 So there is a little bit of

7 selection bias in that group, too, but it is

8 reaching people at the point of need, which I

9 think is important.

10 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, Cecilia, real

11 quick. Cecilia can probably answer that,

12 too.

13 MS. GARCIA: Yes. I just wanted

14 to say that the Connected Living evaluation

15 process got the baseline information that you

16 are talking about and then did intermediate

17 surveys.

18 The interesting thing about them,

19 it will be this summer, they are going to go

20 back to the residents of the senior housing

21 in their target area who did not partake of

22 anything. And they are going to find -- they

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2 can come from that.

3 They are also looking at price

4 points. They are asking questions like at

5 what level would you be willing to pay to

6 continue this after the subsidy is over? So

7 we are looking for some very interesting data

8 from that this summer.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. We are

10 going to move very quickly. Lise, a quick

11 question?

12 MS. HAMLIN: This is Lise Hamlin

13 from Hearing Loss Association. Yes, this is

14 quick actually and you may have dealt with

15 this, but it was not clear from what you

16 presented.

17 I noted that you saw -- you

18 tracked how many people with disabilities

19 were there. But from my perspective, people

20 with hearing loss, and I suspect this is true

21 with other people with disabilities, when

22 they are -- especially seniors with

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 disabilities have an inability to get access.

2 In other words, you are trying to

3 go to a training program and you think I

4 can't hear what is going on. I can't get

5 access to the information. And I think

6 people with sentry disabilities and other

7 disabilities have the same issue and I would

8 just put that to you as, you know, have you

9 tracked it?

10 Do you want -- if you haven't,

11 it's something I think maybe you should

12 track.

13 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Lise.

15 MS. HAMLIN: Yes.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Ken, a quick

17 question?

18 MR. McELDOWNEY: A quick

19 question. Ken McEldowney, Consumer Action.

20 I did not hear much talked about in terms of

21 dicing and slicing in terms of people, color

22 and folks for whom English is not the primary

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2 And I'm wondering what is being

3 done both in the survey and also in terms of

4 outreach to those populations?

5 MS. CROCKER: I'm just going to

6 answer really quickly. We don't have a lot

7 of time.

8 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh, sorry.

9 MS. CROCKER: Sorry. We don't

10 have a lot of time. Rick Schadelbauer from

11 NTCA did a really nice Broadband Adoption

12 piece last year, and I would be happy to get

13 a copy to Debra and she can distribute it to

14 the group, that tackles some of those

15 statistics and some of that information as

16 well.

17 CHAIR BERLYN: And you have some

18 information on that, so does the Joint Center

19 for Policy and Economic Studies.

20 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes. We have a lot

21 of cross-cuts on our website, which is

22 connectednation.org/research, and you can

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 actually track -- there is a little button

2 where you can click for low-income minority,

3 non-native, you know, types, you know.

4 MR. McELDOWNEY: Well, I guess

5 the second point was what is being done, in

6 terms of reaching out in language to those

7 populations?

8 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.

9 MS. GARCIA: Can I just say?

10 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.

11 MS. GARCIA: Just real quickly,

12 one of the projects that we looked at on May

13 22nd was a non-BTOP-funded project in Miami.

14 And the area -- the Alliance for Aging, the

15 Executive Director there decided on his own

16 that he needed to find money to do his own

17 experiment, mainly because low-income

18 communities of color and also non-English

19 speaking residents of senior housing had very

20 strong issues with getting on-line.

21 So that project, I think, has a

22 lot of learning from that as well. We will

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 have a report based on our findings available

2 on our website probably next week.

3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Great. Okay.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: I think we are

5 going to have to -- I want to get back to

6 Deborah and Sharon. Dorothy, if we could

7 take your question in writing for our team,

8 unless it's real -- is it real quick,

9 Dorothy?

10 MS. WALT: Well, I just have a

11 short comment or I can hold off, either one.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: Short?

13 PARTICIPANT: The microphone.

14 MS. WALT: I have a short comment

15 or I can hold either way.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Can we take a

17 short comment? A short comment, Dorothy.

18 MS. WALT: Yes, thank you, Debra.

19 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure.

20 MS. WALT: Dorothy speaking,

21 Dorothy Walt. The only comment I wanted to

22 make related to seniors is to have an

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 opportunity to receive training on using

2 computers through the National Deaf/Blind

3 Equipment Distribution Program, if they are

4 qualified for that program.

5 They get free equipment and free

6 training. And the trainer comes to their

7 home and trains them. And they also go back

8 for follow-up visits and stuff like that. It

9 depends on each state's policy when they get

10 it set up. I just wanted to make that

11 comment.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.

13 MS. WALT: Thank you.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you,

15 Dorothy. That's great information.

16 Okay. Thank you, panel, that was

17 really great. Appreciate that. Great data

18 points and I know there is more information

19 on-line at Connected Nation.

20 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.

21 CHAIR BERLYN: And also at your

22 website?

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. CROCKER: That's frs.org and

2 we have paper and we can send you a PDF copy

3 or if anybody wants more information.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Thank

5 you so much. Appreciate it.

6 MS. GARCIA: Thank you.

7 MR. KOUTSKY: Thank you.

8 (Applause)

9 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, that

10 was great. Appreciate it. Oh, yes, thank

11 you. Elizabeth is going to leave some copies

12 of this up here, so you can pick some of

13 these Aging in Place and the Role of

14 Broadband, if you want to pick one up.

15 So we have a little bit of time

16 to get back to some questions. We have got

17 about 10 minutes, but I do want to get back

18 to some questions, if you can put your

19 mindset back on our previous topic about the

20 Consumer Complaints process.

21 So oh, Ed, quick, yes? You're

22 up. Saw it first. Oh, and then Stephen, I'm

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 sorry. I saw yours second. Ed? Give it a

2 go.

3 MR. BARTHOLME: I'm Ed Bartholme

4 with Call for Action. We actually partner

5 with media outlets around the country to set

6 up consumer help hotlines. So we do have

7 experience in the intake processes related to

8 consumer complaints and tracking and kind of

9 keeping an eye on that data.

10 I had a couple of thoughts and

11 suggestions. We do have a web form that we

12 utilize for consumers to make use of. We

13 tend to choose to classify and categorize the

14 complaints that come in internally. We don't

15 allow consumer self-selection for categories.

16 We take the information and our

17 staff and our volunteers review each

18 complaint and then assign it a category. I

19 realized that there is a scaling issue and

20 you guys probably do deal with significantly

21 more than we do, but I think it's important.

22 If your goal is consistency and

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2 selection can make that harder to achieve.

3 You know, they are clouded with -- they are

4 upset about what has happened to them. They

5 are angry possibly about this. And it could

6 be that they pick the completely wrong

7 category as to what you guys would have as a

8 definition and where that would go and that

9 can lead to some pretty heavily skewed

10 statistical outcomes.

11 Another thing that comes to mind

12 is the FTC has a really good set up with the

13 Sentinel Program, in that other organizations

14 can feed into that, if they choose to. So

15 that might be something to look at from a

16 back end, is there a way for other

17 organizations who take communications-related

18 complaints to feed some of their data over to

19 you guys, so that you can get a broader

20 picture and cover a bigger swath necessarily

21 of what comes in to you.

22 And just kind of a third tip, one

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 of the things that -- we used to have

2 categories and subcategories and we found it

3 to be very cumbersome, so we did decide to go

4 strictly with kind of broader categories and

5 then a key word, as a second step.

6 So our system allows for a

7 category search and a key word. So you can

8 do, for instance, you know, wireless and then

9 billing as the key word to pick up all the

10 billing-related or, you know, you could use a

11 different key word if you chose to.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: Awesome. Thanks.

13 And hopefully Ed will do something to capture

14 all of this in our follow-up as well. So

15 Stephen. Then raise your hand, let's capture

16 this quickly.

17 MR. POCIASK: Yes. I'm Steve

18 Pociask with the American Consumer Institute.

19 Those are good comments, Ed.

20 Okay. You talked a little bit

21 about the tracking, the classification and,

22 you know, sort of accounting for this output

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 of complaints. My question is I really

2 didn't hear and to what extent do you

3 actually account for outcomes, rather than

4 just the, you know, output?

5 I'm talking about the actions.

6 In many cases, you provide information,

7 referrals. Do you account for that? Do you

8 track that in cases you have intervention?

9 Because to me, that's kind of interesting.

10 It's one thing, we have a big accounting for

11 the output, but what about the outcomes?

12 MS. BOWERS: That's a very good

13 question. Thank you. And I appreciate the

14 comments from Consumer Action as well.

15 Our Consumer Advocacy Mediation

16 Specialists deal with consumers one-on-one.

17 And each case is assigned to a CAMS. And as

18 the CAMS work through that process, they are

19 constantly updating that record to show how

20 the consumer is being helped.

21 There is times that we can't come

22 to a resolution that the consumer is

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2 case what the Commission -- what we have

3 done, what the CAMS have done to try to

4 assist that person.

5 We are one-on-one. The CAMS are

6 on the front line dealing with the consumer's

7 individual problems. Now, how that sort of

8 shakes out to larger numbers that we produce,

9 we keep track of disputed amounts, how much

10 money we have actually gotten back for the

11 consumer in their complaint. But we really

12 don't report anything beyond that individual

13 complaint that is more internal to us, if

14 that answers your question?

15 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Yes.

16 MS. MARTINEZ: Mia Martinez with

17 the National Asian American Coalition. I

18 just wanted to follow-up on Ken's comments

19 regarding capturing complaint data by race or

20 ethnicity. This would be extremely helpful

21 in developing a more effective targeted

22 outreach to the minority communities.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And secondly, I checked the App

2 Store a couple of minutes ago and I saw that

3 there is an FCC App and Mobile Broadband

4 test. Perhaps the Bureau can explore

5 possibilities of having an app or developing

6 an app for submitting complaints.

7 I also wanted to note that this

8 is one platform that the Federal Trade

9 Commission is also looking into at this

10 moment for submission of complaints and

11 fraud. So perhaps the Bureau could explore

12 this option as well.

13 CHAIR BERLYN: Very good. And

14 one more question from Lise.

15 MS. HAMLIN: Lise, hello? Lise

16 Hamlin.

17 CHAIR BERLYN: Not quite.

18 MS. HAMLIN: Almost. Okay.

19 We're there.

20 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.

21 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin, Hearing

22 Loss Association of America. And thank you

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 for all you are doing and all this work. I

2 will say when I mentioned to a group of

3 different organizations working with people

4 with hearing loss, I had a number of people

5 get back to me and say yes, we hear all the

6 time from consumers who have real difficulty

7 dealing with the forms, so they just give up.

8 They just won't do it.

9 And one of the suggestions that I

10 would have is making different levels not

11 everything should be -- I know there is

12 formal complaints and informal complaints,

13 but there may even be a less formal using

14 social media, Facebook, even tweeting.

15 I'm sitting in front of my TV and

16 my captions are off. I don't want to go to

17 my computer and fill out a form that will

18 take me half an hour to fill out and then I

19 miss whatever I could get. Probably what I

20 would have done is change the program,

21 because I wouldn't want to have to sit

22 through a program with no captions.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 But at least it gives me an

2 option. I have had a problem right now, here

3 it is, I can't resolve it. What do I do?

4 And then you get that information. And I

5 think that that's an issue.

6 Somebody also mentioned about --

7 I mean, they were talking about different

8 ways of how you get consumers complaining at

9 all, because we know our community doesn't

10 complain a lot. And I think part of our

11 problem also is that they -- our community

12 doesn't know that they can complain or who to

13 go to or go to the FCC.

14 So even having a real clear

15 bullet list that you can complain about. You

16 know, I know people come to us or consumer

17 organizations say I can't get a hearing aid

18 compatible phone. But we never think to go

19 to the FCC and say, you know, I'm having

20 problems and these are my problems.

21 See even having a real clear and

22 doing it without literature, doing it on your

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 website or getting us printed material, doing

2 various ways, I have heard several times

3 today one-size does not fit-all. And I think

4 that's a problem for you, but it's also part

5 of the solution is going tat it through

6 different avenues.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks. Luisa, do

8 you have something real quick?

9 MS. LANCETTI: Yes, I do.

10 CHAIR BERLYN: Sorry, I just saw

11 your card.

12 MS. LANCETTI: Luisa Lancetti, a

13 very quick comment. And that is I think we

14 all agree that the FCC's work in this area is

15 important maybe even increasingly so and the

16 complaint data and the recording of it is

17 very powerful as well. So I think when Paul

18 first spoke, he talked about how if you don't

19 like Dallas, you know, maybe you can go to

20 the FCC and complain about it.

21 So I think the FCC itself

22 recognizes and I think it's also important as

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 we begin to look at trends and collect data

2 and numbers, etcetera, that we realize in

3 some cases these are not complaints or

4 actionable in that sense. And so it is very

5 powerful, but it's also important that it be

6 looked at with great kind of sophistication

7 and care because of the powerfulness of the

8 information that is being both collected,

9 analyzed and acted on.

10 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Very good,

11 excellent. Oh, great. Thank you. We are

12 going to have to move on. You will have to

13 get your question later, Mitsi.

14 MS. HERRERA: That's fine.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: But thank you both

16 for coming back, for hearing us. We will be

17 discussing this again later when we talk

18 about our process for responding to their

19 questions.

20 So thank you both again.

21 MS. BRODERSON: Thank you.

22 MS. BOWERS: Thank you.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: And have a good

2 trip back to Gettysburg.

3 MS. BOWERS: Thank you.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.

5 (Applause)

6 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. I know we

7 are starting to get hungry, which means we

8 have really good attention now. And can I

9 call Robert up to the table?

10 MR. ALDERFER: Rob, yes.

11 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob?

12 MR. ALDERFER: Rob, yes.

13 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob.

14 MR. ALDERFER: Rob is good, yes.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob is good.

16 Okay. Rob Alderfer. This is a very

17 important topic. As Commissioner Pai

18 mentioned, Spectrum is real important to

19 consumers. And we are very fortunate to have

20 Rob here with us today with the Incentive

21 Options Team in the Wireless Telecom Bureau.

22 So thank you so much for joining us.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. ALDERFER: Absolutely.

2 Thanks for having me.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: And I want to give

4 you as much time as we need for this topic,

5 even though our stomachs will be starting to

6 rumble a bit. So thank you so much.

7 MR. ALDERFER: Sure. Thanks for

8 having me, everyone, I really appreciate the

9 opportunity to talk with you today.

10 As Debra mentioned, I'm Rob

11 Alderfer. I'm the Chief Data Officer in the

12 Wireless Bureau here at the FCC. I'm also a

13 member of the Incentive Auctions Task Force,

14 which consists of staff from across the

15 Agency working on this initiative.

16 And since my agenda item is

17 entitled "What Consumers Need to Know About

18 Spectrum," I thought what I would do is just

19 talk a little bit about the basics, why the

20 FCC is focused on Spectrum and then dive into

21 some specifics on Incentive Auctions, if

22 that's useful for folks.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Okay. So what consumers need to

2 know about Spectrum. Well, the first thing

3 they need to know is that they use it

4 frequently, whether it is for Wi-Fi in their

5 home, their mobile phones, watching

6 television with rabbit ears or listening to

7 the radio in their cars, that's all Spectrum.

8 And Spectrum really serves a

9 function for a number of wireless services

10 and those services are things that consumers

11 are using more and more. Wireless services

12 are really proliferating in the economy.

13 And actually, according to CTIA,

14 we have more wireless connections than there

15 are people in the United States, which is a

16 pretty astounding phenomenon. That gives you

17 a sense of the magnitude of the trend.

18 And really one of the key growth

19 areas in wireless services has been the

20 growth of wireless broadband. In the last

21 three years, mobile traffic, as a function of

22 wireless broadband growth, has increased over

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2 forecast for the future is that that growth

3 will continue and even accelerate.

4 So if the Commission were to just

5 stand pat and do nothing about this trend, it

6 would really strain our Spectrum resources.

7 And so what that would mean for consumers, I

8 think, is higher prices, poorer service and

9 lost opportunities, frankly. So that's why

10 the Commission is so focused on Spectrum.

11 The National Broadband Plan

12 outlined a number of strategies to meet

13 consumer needs in the area of Spectrum really

14 in three broad categories. One is greater

15 efficiency, essentially squeezing more

16 service out of the Spectrum that we have.

17 Sharing Spectrum, so making sure that we

18 really have services that are compatible with

19 each other doing what they can to share

20 Spectrum. And also reallocation of Spectrum

21 from legacy uses to new flexible uses to

22 allow the market to really meet consumer

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2 And I'm really going to be

3 talking about that third category today,

4 reallocation of Spectrum. The Broadband Plan

5 outlined a number of potential bands that

6 could be candidates for reallocation to meet

7 consumer needs. They really stretch both

8 from stuff that the FCC manages across to

9 what the Commerce Department and NTIA

10 manages.

11 And one of those was the

12 broadcast television band and that's where

13 Incentive Auctions comes in. So the

14 Broadband Plan recommended that the FCC,

15 essentially, use a market-based process,

16 known as Incentive Auctions, to, essentially,

17 enable part of the Spectrum to be used for

18 new wireless services.

19 And so that's what I'm going to

20 be focusing a little bit more on today.

21 And so it's helpful just to start

22 with a little bit about what Incentive

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Auctions are. And at their core, they are

2 really a market-based means of making

3 Spectrum available for new services through a

4 market-based process while capturing value

5 for the public and for consumers.

6 And as I said, they were featured

7 in the National Broadband Plan, but it's

8 actually something that economists have been

9 talking about for some time before that. And

10 they were also featured and supported in the

11 President's Executive Memorandum on Spectrum

12 in November 2010 and were most recently

13 authorized by Congress in February of this

14 year.

15 So the key mechanism in the

16 Incentive Auction process is the Commission's

17 ability to share financial incentives with

18 incumbent license holders, Spectrum license

19 holders in return for relinquishing some or

20 all of their Spectrum rights back to the

21 Commission for repurposing to new services.

22 So that's something new. That's something

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that the Commission hasn't done before.

2 And really what it does and why

3 it's good is it really aligns the interests

4 of all interested parties to the benefit of

5 meeting consumer needs for Spectrum. So

6 incumbent licensees, new licensees, consumers

7 and the Government can all benefit through

8 this process.

9 So I'll talk a little bit about

10 what Congress directed us to do in February

11 of this year. Actually, the Middle Class Tax

12 Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012, Title 6

13 of that law, had a number of provisions on

14 Spectrum, one of which was authorizing the

15 Commission to conduct Incentive Auctions.

16 That was in ' 6402, for those of you that are

17 interested in looking up the bill.

18 And, essentially, the key

19 provision in 6402 was that authority for the

20 Commission to share auction proceeds with

21 incumbent licensees in return for their

22 relinquishing Spectrum back to the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Commission. So that's general authority and

2 that's something that was authorized for a

3 number of years for the Commission to use at

4 its discretion.

5 Then the following section, '

6 6403, dealt specifically with the broadcast

7 television band. It had several provisions

8 for how the Commission should implement

9 Incentive Auctions in the context of

10 Broadcast Spectrum, including a number of

11 protections for over-the-air television

12 viewers and broadcasters.

13 One of the things that section

14 did was outline a number of different ways

15 that broadcast television stations could

16 relinquish Spectrum back to the FCC.

17 So one way, as you might expect,

18 is to return a license for a full 6 megahertz

19 channel, but that's not the only way.

20 Stations might also elect to move from,

21 what's called, the UHF band to the VHF band,

22 so the high channels to the low channels.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 The high channels being a little more useful

2 for wireless broadband. That's another

3 option that is available to -- that we expect

4 will be available to broadcasters when we get

5 to implementation of Incentive Auctions.

6 And also, the third option that

7 was outlined in the statute was channel

8 sharing. So as a function of digital

9 broadcast technology, more than one broadcast

10 station can actually use a 6 megahertz

11 channel. So essentially what that means,

12 especially those two latter options, they are

13 available to broadcasters to continue their

14 over-the-air broadcast operations while

15 relinquishing some Spectrum back to the FCC

16 in return for financial incentives.

17 So in that regard, we really

18 think there are win-win opportunities here

19 that will result not just in repurposing

20 Spectrum for wireless services, but also

21 strengthening the broadcast sector and

22 providing new business options to

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 broadcasters.

2 And in the same regard, if you

3 think about relinquishing a full 6 megahertz

4 channel, there are many station groups out

5 there that may wish to sort of consolidate

6 their operations and strengthen their

7 business going forward. And this is another

8 way to do that through the Incentive Auction.

9 So a couple of other things that '

10 6403 did in addition to providing these

11 options for broadcasters, it, essentially,

12 made clear that stations won't be forced to

13 relinquish their rights. So this is a

14 voluntary process. Stations will have the

15 discretion to decide which options works best

16 for them and set the price at which they want

17 to accept those options.

18 And if they don't want to

19 participate, they don't have to.

20 Now, we do expect that there will

21 be a realignment of the band as part of this

22 process as we move a portion of the Broadcast

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Television Spectrum to wireless services.

2 The band will need to be realigned to make

3 the Spectrum useful for wireless services.

4 And so, essentially, what that

5 will mean is a new channel plan for

6 television stations. And there may be some

7 costs involved in that for broadcast stations

8 and under the law, those costs would be

9 covered as part of the auction proceeds would

10 be used to pay for that.

11 And one important thing to keep

12 in mind here through this repacking process

13 is that it's something that is a little bit

14 different from the Digital Television

15 Transition, in that consumers are already

16 digital-ready.

17 So consumers have set-top boxes

18 and it's -- we don't expect that all stations

19 will be affected by the repacking process, so

20 it's going to be more limited in scope, we

21 think. And it will be a simple matter, we

22 think, of probably rescanning boxes for over-

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the-air viewers that may be affected by the

2 repacking. And we don't expect that to e the

3 full population of over-the-air viewers.

4 And, of course, television

5 viewers that subscribe to cable, satellite or

6 watch TV over the Internet won't be affected

7 at all.

8 So a little bit on what we have

9 done to date at the staff level to implement

10 Incentive Auctions. Perhaps one of the most

11 fundamental things we have done is get the

12 people in place to do the work, and that's

13 the Incentive Auctions' Task Force.

14 You may know Gary Epstein, who is

15 the Chair of the Task Force, he sends his

16 regrets that he couldn't be here today, but

17 he really does view this as a key consumer

18 initiative for the Commission. And he has

19 really compiled a team from across the Agency

20 to work on this issue.

21 And we have also -- to help us in

22 this endeavor, retained a number of economic

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 experts that specialize in auction design.

2 Because this is a new novel program, a lot of

3 different facets to it, we want to make sure

4 we are getting the best advice from the best

5 people out there.

6 And so we have a team of

7 economists, that I would be remiss if I

8 didn't mention they are prize-winning

9 economists, that are at Stanford and

10 University of Maryland and they are advising

11 the Commission on auction design and the

12 economic aspects of this.

13 Another thing the Commission has

14 done recently back in the April meeting, the

15 Commission adopted an order that lays the

16 regulatory framework, some of the groundwork

17 for channel sharing. And, essentially, what

18 it did was, you know, adopt some basic

19 parameters for channel sharing that should

20 compliment the Incentive Auction when we move

21 to implement that. It doesn't really

22 prejudge how channel sharing would work

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 within the context of Incentive Auctions, but

2 just sort of sets the framework for it.

3 Then there was actually a channel

4 sharing workshop in May, last month, two

5 months ago, at this point, in which we

6 gathered the industry together to talk about

7 some of the practical aspects of channel

8 sharing. And we will have more workshops and

9 development. We really do view public

10 participation and outreach as a key piece of

11 this initiative.

12 And as we move forward, we are

13 really in the early stages right now. We are

14 in what I would call sort of the technical

15 stage, in which we are really focusing on the

16 sort of economic aspects and the engineering

17 aspects of this initiative and making sure

18 that we have our experts thinking about the

19 key issues.

20 And that will inform a lot of the

21 policy that will be coming through the

22 rulemaking process.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And as I said, we view outreach

2 as a key component of this. And so it's

3 certainly a timely discussion for the

4 Consumer Advisory Committee and we certainly

5 look forward to your input.

6 I can talk more about the

7 different piece parts of Incentive Auctions,

8 if folks are interested in hearing about

9 that?

10 But just a few things to keep in

11 mind that I would like to really kind of

12 reiterate. First, the amount of Spectrum

13 that is repurposed out of the television

14 bands for new services will be a function of

15 the voluntary participation of broadcasters.

16 And it really -- and it being a

17 market-based process, we view it as being a

18 fairly consumer-friendly way to repurpose

19 Spectrum, inasmuch as it's, essentially,

20 market actors making the decision on Spectrum

21 repurposing and they should be certainly

22 responsive to their customers.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 As I said, there are several

2 options for broadcasters to relinquish

3 Spectrum. Returning the full 6 megahertz

4 channel sharing and moving from a UHF channel

5 to a VHF channel. These will all be teed up

6 for the Commission to consider in the

7 rulemaking later this year. But that's what

8 the statute envisioned.

9 The statute also envisions that

10 there is no involuntary relinquishment of

11 Spectrum. And stations that don't

12 participate and don't want to relinquish

13 Spectrum will be compensated for any costs

14 involved in the repacking and realignment

15 process that will come as part of the

16 Incentive Auctions.

17 And really, we think that this

18 whole initiative is a win-win for consumers

19 of both the wireless and broadcast sectors.

20 And so, as I said, we are very early on in

21 the process and we would like to get your

22 input on what you think it would take to make

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2 And I can leave it there.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you so much,

4 Rob. We do have time for some questions. I

5 see Ann's card up. Go ahead, Ann.

6 MS. BOBECK: Hi, I'm Ann Bobeck

7 from the National Association of

8 Broadcasters. I just wanted to say thank

9 you, Rob. Thank you to Chairman Genachowski

10 and his team. I know that this has been a

11 tremendous undertaking and the number of

12 staff involved to ensure that the Incentive

13 Auctions run smoothly.

14 And that we very much look

15 forward to the upcoming June 25th Workshop on

16 TV Broadcaster, the Fund Workshop. I know

17 that my boss, Jane Mago, is looking forward

18 to participating in that was well. And I

19 think those are very helpful, you know, they

20 are broadcast over the web for all of the --

21 for all of us and members of the CAC to

22 participate in as viewers and as consumers as

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 well.

2 So I encourage all of us to tune

3 in to the upcoming workshops. I know that

4 the Commission has a series of workshops

5 throughout the summer and the fall and I

6 think that would help us kind of guide and

7 help inform from a consumer perspective the

8 challenges associated with the Spectrum

9 allocation as it affects viewers of

10 television.

11 So thank you very much for

12 inviting consumer participation and we look

13 forward to a robust discussion, particularly

14 in the fall as the rulemaking comes out.

15 MR. ALDERFER: Thanks for the

16 plug on the workshops.

17 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone else

18 have a question?

19 MR. UMANSKY: Just very, very

20 brief.

21 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry?

22 MR. UMANSKY: Hi, I'm Barry

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Umansky with the Digital Policy Institute and

2 I Chair the meet -- the working group. And

3 certainly this is -- the issues you talked

4 about a moment ago are certainly core

5 interest of our immediate working group. We

6 have addressed them in recommendations. And

7 I think, listening to your discussion, we are

8 pretty much all on the same page and we hope

9 it's a very successful process and we will

10 certainly be tuning in. Thank you.

11 MR. ALDERFER: Great. Thank you.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott? Raise your

13 hand, Scott, so they can see you back there.

14 MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann

15 with CTIA. I just wanted to add my thanks as

16 well. We are really appreciative. Can you

17 hear me yet?

18 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, I can hear on

19 that one.

20 MR. BERGMANN: Okay. Good. I

21 just want to add my word of thanks as well to

22 -- for all the work that the FCC has done to

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 try to develop this process of an Incentive

2 Auction, recognizing the need to meet rising

3 consumer demand for wireless services. And

4 there is a lot of, you know, good record that

5 the FCC has helped develop about the consumer

6 benefits of mobile broadband services.

7 So we are looking forward to

8 working with you all as well, too, and it is

9 a very technical exercise that the FCC is

10 about to go through. So sort of what the

11 Consumer Advisory Committee had on, we

12 appreciate your focus on how consumers stand

13 to benefit from going through this process.

14 So thanks for that, Rob.

15 MR. ALDERFER: Okay. Thanks,

16 Scott.

17 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob, I'm going to

18 ask this question just so that everybody can

19 get a feel for this. And that's the timing

20 question.

21 So when does the FCC anticipate

22 the actual completion of the repacking

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 process, so that the auctions would actually

2 take place on the other end?

3 MR. ALDERFER: So the short

4 answer is we don't know. But I'll give you

5 the longer answer, too. So what we are

6 working toward now, what the Chairman has

7 said, is that we would like to have a Notice

8 of Proposed Rulemaking developed or a series

9 of them in the fall of this year.

10 That will layout some of the

11 staff's thinking and the Commission's

12 thinking on this process. And from there, it

13 becomes a function that really kicks off the

14 public engagement process.

15 And so it's a little bit hard to

16 predict and I certainly wouldn't want to

17 prejudge what we would hear from people

18 through that process. I will say that we do

19 view the need for Spectrum as an urgent one

20 and so we are keeping that in mind.

21 But in terms of how it is all

22 going to come together, I think we are really

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 going to need everyone's input through the

2 rulemaking process to know that.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right.

4 Well, thank you very much. We greatly

5 appreciate your coming down here.

6 MR. ALDERFER: Okay. Thanks.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.

8 MR. ALDERFER: Thank you.

9 (Applause)

10 CHAIR BERLYN: Lunch is served

11 and we will reconvene at about 1:00. We did

12 it. We are back on schedule.

13 (Whereupon, the meeting was

14 recessed at 12:25 p.m. to reconvene at 1:11

15 p.m. this same day.)

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2 1:11 p.m.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: So this next

4 session is brought to you by Ed Bartholme and

5 myself. We have a topic on your agenda, as

6 you see, to have a discussion about the FCC's

7 website. And we did want to get some FCC

8 staff to talk with us about this topic and we

9 still hope to do that.

10 The scheduling didn't work out

11 for that, at this particular meeting, but

12 hopefully in the future we will do that.

13 But we do know that it would be

14 helpful for the FCC staff to perhaps have

15 some questions in advance that we might have

16 about the FCC website.

17 Now, just as some background, the

18 Consumer Working Group did discuss the FCC's

19 website a couple of times at various working

20 group meetings and we decided that it would

21 be a good topic to present to the full CAC

22 for discussion.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So I'm going to turn it over to

2 Ed and we are going to have the capability to

3 show the website on the screen and go through

4 it with all of you. And the idea here is to

5 talk about the FCC's website as a useful

6 instrument for general consuming public as

7 well as for those of us who use the FCC

8 website on a regular basis, but also as

9 representatives of the consumer populations

10 that we work with.

11 So, Ed, I'll turn it over to you.

12 MR. BARTHOLME: So I --

13 CHAIR BERLYN: And there we go.

14 MR. BARTHOLME: We talked about

15 this a little bit at one of the previous

16 meetings and there didn't seem to be a lack

17 of interest from anyone in the room, as it

18 pertains to the website, so we thought it

19 would be a good idea to kind of all share

20 some thoughts and insight on it. Like Debbie

21 said, our goal was to have a speaker, but it

22 didn't coincide for this meeting.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And we know that our time is

2 short, so to speak, because we have one

3 meeting left. So we were hoping to get

4 together a list of advance questions to get

5 that over to someone in the Commission who

6 could then address us on those topics.

7 So if anybody wants to start by

8 firing off some suggestions or things that

9 you see or have thought about or have

10 questions, I know one of the big things that

11 we initially looked at is we all use the

12 FCC's website in probably a somewhat

13 different capacity than what we would imagine

14 the typical consumer going to the FCC's

15 website does.

16 We look specifically for Notices

17 of Rulemaking and different dockets and

18 different things like that. We have also

19 heard anecdotally that most of the people in

20 the room, and I won't make you raise your

21 hand, go to the website and first click on

22 where is the old website and how do I get

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 there, because that's how I know how to get

2 around things. And that has been left very

3 prominently displayed on the new website.

4 So knowing all of that about

5 ourselves, we were wondering how do we

6 translate that to what your typical consumer

7 is actually going here and looking to find

8 and do they find it more beneficial than some

9 of us who are used to the old familiar might

10 find it?

11 So that's kind of the direction

12 where the dialogue started. And then as we

13 -- we had a call about this. As we started

14 to kind of drill down, we highlighted some

15 things. I want to open it up to you guys

16 first and then we can -- I'll share some of

17 the things that we saw as well to kind of

18 prod along the conversation, if there is a

19 lull.

20 So I turn it over to you. I'll

21 take copious notes and make sure that

22 everybody sees this and get a copy. Right,

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2 yes.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Can we flash the

4 website back up on the screen? There. There

5 we go.

6 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Ann?

8 MR. BARTHOLME: Ann, you had --

9 MS. BOBECK: Hi, it's Ann Bobeck

10 from NAB. One of the things that I always

11 thought would be the simplest button on the

12 home page is if there was a consumer button

13 for consumers or for the public, just in

14 general.

15 I know that as a petitioner, we

16 are fairly well-versed in both the old and

17 slowly migrating to the new FCC's website.

18 But if I were a consumer, even today coming

19 to the new FCC's website, there is a lot of

20 information, but it's hard, it's difficult to

21 navigate.

22 And if there were just a

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2 had a consumer generated sort of home page, I

3 think, you know, there is take action at the

4 top, but that's kind of buried at the top.

5 It's sort of, you know, difficult. There is

6 a lot of quick links. There is bureaus. But

7 as a consumer, I might not know who those

8 bureaus are or really what they do.

9 But I think that that might just

10 be a starting point.

11 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. So kind of

12 along the lines of the top navigation bar,

13 stick one up there that just says consumer,

14 so that that way --

15 MS. BOBECK: Yes.

16 MR. BARTHOLME: -- it's readily

17 and exactly where it --

18 MS. BOBECK: Yes, for consumers,

19 yes.

20 MR. BARTHOLME: Yes.

21 MS. BOBECK: I'm just trying to

22 think if I were visiting the FCC for the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 first time, I would have no idea what all

2 this information meant.

3 MR. BARTHOLME: Sure.

4 MS. BOBECK: For the average

5 bear.

6 MR. BARTHOLME: Definitely.

7 Anyone else have any opening shots or

8 questions?

9 MS. HAMLIN: Yes.

10 CHAIR BERLYN: Lise Hamlin?

11 MS. HAMLIN: Am I coming through?

12 CHAIR BERLYN: Not quite yet.

13 MS. HAMLIN: Hello?

14 CHAIR BERLYN: There you go.

15 MS. HAMLIN: There I am. Okay.

16 One of the things that -- recently, I was

17 putting together a PowerPoint for a

18 presentation, so I wasn't specifically

19 looking for proceedings. I was looking like

20 somebody who might be searching for

21 information.

22 And what I found was if I went

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 out of the site and Googled what I wanted,

2 FCC and then whatever the topic was, it was

3 much easier to find information than if I

4 went into the site and went to the search

5 engine on the site. I couldn't find it.

6 And you are right about the

7 links, too. Okay, I'll get to a page, let's

8 talk about captioning and then it will say

9 okay, other things to talk about. They would

10 never take me where I wanted to go.

11 So I'm not the tech person here,

12 but it sounds like to me there is a search

13 engine problem as well as -- two problems.

14 Organizational problem and maybe the consumer

15 page might be a way to get around that. But

16 there is also how do I find this? It's

17 really difficult to find what you are looking

18 for.

19 CHAIR BERLYN: Stephanie?

20 MR. BARTHOLME: Stephanie?

21 MS. PODEY: Stephanie Podey from

22 NCTA. It seems like they tried to organize

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2 just found that a lot of the information I'm

3 looking for winds up being there, which I

4 find through a Google search. And it's just

5 if it's confusing for us, I'm sure it's

6 terrible for consumers.

7 MR. BARTHOLME: Dorothy, did

8 you--

9 MS. WALT: Dorothy speaking. It

10 has been a long time since I looked at the

11 webpage. I don't remember if this was on

12 there or not. If it isn't, I would suggest

13 you add to it.

14 Do you have a person assigning

15 the information, rather than -- in other

16 words, some deaf people whose first language

17 is ASL and they would prefer to read

18 information through an ASL interpreter. So

19 I'm wondering if that's on the website? If

20 not, you might want to add that. Thank you.

21 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin again.

22 The other thing that I remember finding on

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 this is that some pages were easily printable

2 and other pages were not. And it would be --

3 most of the information you want to be able

4 to download easily and print out. So I would

5 suggest that that be consistent.

6 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Can I just pose a

8 general question for anyone in the room?

9 Does anyone in the room have any firsthand

10 knowledge about any consumer use of the

11 website? Does anyone know about consumers

12 using this website?

13 PARTICIPANT: No.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.

15 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,

16 Montgomery County. I have a Consumer

17 Advisory Commission and, by and large, the

18 report has been that they really don't know

19 where to find anything on the site.

20 And one thing that used to

21 happen, the Media Bureau used to have a

22 telephone directory that was issue-based. So

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 if this was my issue, this is the person to

2 call or who is in charge. So that's lacking

3 on this one. It takes -- before it was one

4 step to search people, if you knew who to

5 search for.

6 Now, it's a couple steps. But

7 more importantly, I don't know who is

8 handling what. And I say even for

9 practitioners that's true, because there is a

10 lot of change-over, people who used to be

11 there, so who is the new person who handles

12 that?

13 The other thing overall I would

14 say is that it's very difficult to find any

15 of the reports, which I find ironic, because

16 I feel like the FCC spends a lot of time

17 issuing reports.

18 Before, they used to have a way

19 in which the reports and the ones that they

20 have annually were kind of listed and then it

21 would list, you know, whatever the most

22 current year was along with all the back

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 ones. And that has just kind of disappeared

2 into places. In a lot of the information

3 that they -- I was just looking through while

4 we were talking, so like, for example, the

5 Media Bureau, if you go on one section and it

6 asks for the open proceeding, it will list

7 that there is an open proceeding about closed

8 captioning.

9 But if I go to the subject and

10 look at closed captioning, it provides some

11 kind of evergreen information, but no link to

12 the fact that there is any active proceeding

13 in this area.

14 So if I'm a consumer, I can't go

15 in by the subject, which is the thing I'm

16 most likely to be familiar with, and look to

17 find out what is the FCC doing right now on

18 closed captioning.

19 MR. BARTHOLME: Ann?

20 MS. BOBECK: Ann Bobeck, NAB

21 again. Mitsi, if you would go to the

22 transition, the old FCC website, you go to

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the Media Bureau, you can still see the

2 subject matter expert list. So there is the

3 --

4 MS. HAMLIN: I can't hear you.

5 MS. BOBECK: The subject matter

6 expert list for the Media Bureau still is in

7 the FCC's website. It's just easier to

8 access through the old -- the transition

9 website.

10 MS. HAMLIN: Right. But my --

11 what my concern is I feel like at some point,

12 they are going to stop supporting the old

13 website.

14 MS. BOBECK: Right.

15 MS. HAMLIN: I mean, it depends

16 how long we keep complaining, but --

17 CHAIR BERLYN: That's one of the

18 questions we don't have the answer to.

19 MS. BOBECK: Right.

20 CHAIR BERLYN: Is how long that

21 transition button will still be there.

22 MS. HERRERA: Right. What would

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 be also beneficial, I think, that we make as

2 a recommendation or request is that that

3 would be certainly something that would be

4 helpful in all the bureaus to have a subject

5 matter expert list.

6 So if you had a question on CGB,

7 who is the contact person that I would need

8 to be to -- to go to if I have a complaint?

9 Then I need to go to the Enforcement Bureau,

10 who? Which question should I direct to what

11 call centers? There could be some

12 troubleshooting or experts that they could

13 list.

14 I think that that would be

15 helpful. Certainly, you know, the 8th Floor

16 Advisors are fairly easy to find, because

17 they are on the home page and the

18 Commissioners. But I think that's something

19 that they could expand. It's just the Media

20 Bureau, I think, was the first and being the

21 most established bureaus.

22 But that could be helpful beyond

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 one bureau.

2 MR. BARTHOLME: Barry?

3 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, just three

4 quick things. I want to agree with Ann. I

5 think the Media Bureau is a good model for

6 how to do this right to link experts with

7 topics and so forth.

8 Also, I have been trying to use a

9 variety of other agencies website, some

10 federal some state, and by comparison, I

11 think the FCC has done a pretty darn good

12 job. I'll have to admit though that the

13 instant after I go to fcc.gov, I do click the

14 old one.

15 And the one beef I have with the

16 old one, it's a new beef, when you looked at

17 the old site, the upper left has a search

18 engine, search the FCC. You fill in your key

19 word hit it and it goes to another search the

20 FCC and you've got to fill it in again. I'm

21 sure that can be cured.

22 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. UMANSKY: End of comment.

2 MR. BARTHOLME: So a couple other

3 things that we had down to bring up and

4 discuss were, you know, how long is the old

5 site going to be there as a transition or is

6 it going to somehow kind of be buried back

7 into a permanent fixture that you just have

8 to do a couple hoops to jump through to

9 access it? You know, will it always say

10 transition.fcc.gov?

11 Some other concerns that we had

12 briefly discussed are kind of the usability

13 aspect of the website, not just from a I'm

14 looking for a specific piece of information

15 and it's hard to find, but when I show up and

16 it is dark blue on black text for different

17 -- you know, like a really good one, I feel

18 like if you could show the computer screen on

19 the screen?

20 Up here in the top right corner,

21 it has got display options in dark blue on

22 black. And for somebody who actually would

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 like to change the appearance, I don't think

2 they are ever going to stumble upon the

3 display options.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Hum.

5 MR. BARTHOLME: One of the things

6 that came up in our call was also the

7 accessibility of the site in different

8 languages. You know, the FCC issues the

9 ability to broadcast in other languages in

10 our country. And, obviously, consumers in

11 our country interact with the FCC sometimes

12 in other languages.

13 There is a little flag up in the

14 top right corner. Most of us didn't even

15 realize that there was any way to get the

16 site into another language until Art Neill

17 pointed out that there is, in fact, a flag in

18 the corner and that if you do click on that

19 flag-- maybe I'm not clicking correctly here.

20 Anyway, if you do click on the

21 flag, it does give you the ability to bring

22 it up in Spanish. As soon as you get it to

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 come up in Spanish, it basically looks like

2 the old website and it's not a translation of

3 the existing website. It's more of a here is

4 a list of all the Spanish resources that we

5 have, so that you can make use of them.

6 And, obviously, we would like to

7 see it be that you would actually translate

8 the site, so that the Spanish-speaking user

9 or people in another language had the same

10 experience and the same interaction, not just

11 a list of here is what we have in Spanish

12 that you can make use of potentially. Ken?

13 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes, I do not

14 know of any website that uses a flag to

15 indicate other languages. I mean, that is

16 just -- I mean, much less something that is

17 an 1/8 of an inch high, I'm not even sure

18 what flag it is. I mean, do you have any

19 idea what flag it is?

20 MR. BARTHOLME: It is the

21 American Flag that is there.

22 MR. McELDOWNEY: But I mean, so

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that --

2 MR. BARTHOLME: But that --

3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Would anyone,

4 would any consumer who is saying oh, I want

5 something in Chinese, I'm going to click on

6 the American Flag? I mean, it's just -- give

7 me a break.

8 MR. BARTHOLME: No. I am

9 guessing that it's actually a more common

10 European model where you click on the Great

11 Britain flag or the Spain flag to get the --

12 CHAIR BERLYN: Right, right.

13 MR. McELDOWNEY: Well, no. I

14 mean, Microsoft does this and it is

15 culturally insulting, because for Spanish,

16 they put the flag of Spain.

17 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.

18 MR. McELDOWNEY: Which really

19 goes over big in Mexico I'm sure.

20 MR. BARTHOLME: No, no, and

21 that's what I'm saying. That's where I think

22 it comes from. I don't necessarily know that

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 that translates the best for use in this

2 environment.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Right.

4 MR. BARTHOLME: Julie?

5 MR. McELDOWNEY: On the other

6 hand, the flag was probably made in China.

7 Sorry.

8 MS. KEARNEY: It's Julie Kearney

9 from CEA. With all due respect, I think we

10 are really nit-picking here. And I think in

11 terms of translation, which I think there can

12 be some value, so for those of us

13 practitioners, many of us in the room, we

14 really -- a translation of regulations could

15 be potentially perilous, I think, to a lot of

16 people.

17 So I think we need to just be

18 careful getting as far down into the weeds.

19 I think the FCC has done a fabulous job with

20 the site. I will admit I do find the site

21 difficult to navigate, but, you know, I have

22 my personal preferences. And actually, I try

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 not to go back to the old site. I try to

2 like, you know, hang in there, so I can get

3 used to the new site.

4 But, you know, I just warn

5 against getting too nit-picky here.

6 MR. BARTHOLME: If I could just

7 respond to that, Julie. I don't think that

8 our intent or our goal is to, obviously, be

9 excessively nit-picky. I think that part of

10 what we were presented with when the

11 discussion about the new website first came

12 about was, this is a tool for outreach.

13 MS. KEARNEY: Right.

14 MR. BARTHOLME: This is a way for

15 the Commission --

16 MS. KEARNEY: Right.

17 MR. BARTHOLME: -- to interact

18 with the public.

19 MS. KEARNEY: Um-hum.

20 MR. BARTHOLME: And I think that

21 the Commission has to realize that when it

22 comes to having an interface in another

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 language, it has to be the same or the people

2 who communicate in that language are going to

3 know that the same attention isn't being

4 given to them as a constituent as someone who

5 has English as their primary language.

6 So I realize that the

7 sensibilities and the practicality of

8 translating a rulemaking procedure are

9 probably not there --

10 MS. KEARNEY: Yes.

11 MR. BARTHOLME: -- as a landing

12 page where it is instructing you with how to

13 interact with the FCC or how to file your

14 complaint with the FCC.

15 Those things should be made

16 accessible to everyone. And I think that is

17 the perspective that we are discussing.

18 MS. KEARNEY: Okay.

19 MR. BARTHOLME: The language

20 issue from, not necessarily, you know, can

21 you do every single thing and make sure that

22 it is coming across that way.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. KEARNEY: Yes.

2 MR. BARTHOLME: Mitsi?

3 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera. It

4 may be helpful if somebody explained or put

5 in writing what the logic is behind the site

6 reorganization. So, you know, is the idea

7 that we group things by topic? And so if you

8 are looking for it, you search by topic and

9 then you find something.

10 But there is, obviously, some

11 scheme they picked and it's just not really

12 apparent. And if you knew that, then maybe

13 it would make it easier to navigate.

14 It's also -- you know, like I

15 looked and you click on -- there used to be

16 -- when we first had our first meeting, there

17 was some portion of this site in which people

18 could vote on things they liked or things

19 they wanted to see and that just sort of has

20 disappeared. So I don't know if -- what

21 happened there.

22 And then it also seems like there

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 is a lot of stuff that is not organized by

2 subject or topic. It's just kind of thrown

3 out there. So it's either just

4 chronologically what we had, the most current

5 thing and it relies on a lot of searching.

6 And I'm concerned that if you don't know the

7 right search term, it won't come up.

8 So if you just made it -- if you

9 made it a little easier like if it is an

10 encyclopedia and I open up on this topic,

11 here is a list of the six things in that

12 topic, as well as a search feature.

13 MR. BARTHOLME: Yes. Yes, and I

14 am kind of jumping off from that point. I

15 think that we can all agree, at least I would

16 hope we all agree, that visually it's a much

17 more interesting website to visit.

18 The question is how do we get the

19 usability and the consumer interaction to the

20 point where it still has the same

21 accessibility of information and organization

22 and those sorts of things? Does anybody else

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 have any comments, questions?

2 CHAIR BERLYN: And I think we

3 certainly can continue to take questions and

4 thoughts that you have. The idea here is to

5 develop some questions and ideas that we can

6 pass on to the website folks here and

7 continue the dialogue.

8 So this has been really helpful.

9 Thank you all. This is great. So thanks and

10 thanks, Ed, for walking us through some of

11 this on the screen.

12 Very good. Okay. So we just

13 need two minutes for setup and then we will

14 start our next presentation.

15 So our next topic is one that I

16 believe either at our last meeting or in a

17 working group, was one that CAC Members

18 wanted to have addressed at our next meeting.

19 And so we -- Scott was able to have James

20 Bird, Senior Attorney, join us with the

21 Office of General Counsel, Head of

22 Transactions Team, to share with us the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 "After the Merger," that's the topic here of

2 our discussion, to talk about sort of what

3 happens after a merger.

4 But in this case, so you're going

5 to talk about some specific site, I believe,

6 of a particular merger. And what happens to

7 some of the conditions and that's, I know, of

8 interest to many folks around the room.

9 So thank you very much for coming

10 today and joining us. Thank you.

11 MR. BIRD: Yes, thank you.

12 Actually, I'm planning to give a more general

13 -- I will raise examples from particular

14 mergers.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Good.

16 MR. BIRD: But I think it is --

17 as an overall view, it's important to

18 understand. First, thank you very much for

19 inviting me and giving me an opportunity to

20 share with you some ideas about how we

21 approach what happens after a merger has been

22 approved by the FCC.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 What I would like to do in broad

2 outline, first, as a disclaimer, I'm speaking

3 here -- these are my personal views. These

4 have not been approved by the Commission.

5 But I do have about 12 years experience

6 working on merger reviews and their aftermath

7 at the Agency.

8 What I would like to cover is,

9 first, a brief explanation of the FCC's role

10 in reviewing merger applications here and, in

11 particular, the standard that we apply and

12 the role of conditions that come out of that

13 review. And then look at some of the

14 different types of merger conditions, because

15 that affects how they can be enforced and

16 monitored.

17 And then look at the ways the

18 conditions are enforced. And then also look

19 at the way the compliance with conditions as

20 monitored and also the effectiveness of the

21 conditions as monitored. And finally end up

22 with the question of how do you modify

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 existing merger conditions?

2 So first, the FCC's authority to

3 review applications for -- that relate to

4 mergers -- you want that a little closer?

5 Okay. The FCC's authority in

6 most -- the one we rely on primarily is our

7 authority to review transfers of licenses,

8 transfers and assignments of licenses or

9 authorizations that are granted by the

10 Agency.

11 And the standard of review that

12 we apply is is it in the public interest?

13 This is under ' 214 in Title 2 of the Act,

14 and ' 310(d) in Title 3.

15 The public interest standard has

16 a couple components. A very important one is

17 does it comply with the Act itself and the

18 rules that are issued under the Act?

19 And if it passes that hurdle,

20 then the second thing we look at is what are

21 the potential benefits that could arise from

22 this combination, this transfer? And then we

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 look at what are the potential harms that

2 might arise and we balance the two. And if

3 the benefits outweigh the harms, then we

4 approve the transfer.

5 There are three possible outcomes

6 generally. One, we can approve it. Two, we

7 can approve it with conditions. And three,

8 if we can't do either of those, then we

9 designate it for an administrative hearing

10 before an Administrative Law Judge where all

11 the facts will be subject to courtroom trial-

12 type procedures.

13 So the role of merger conditions

14 in this process is generally twofold. One is

15 a merger condition will help mitigate

16 potential harms. And the other is it can

17 substantiate claimed benefits.

18 So that if we get past the first

19 stage, it complies with the statute and

20 rules. We are in the second stage. We are

21 balancing harms and benefits. The merger

22 condition can affect that balance. You know,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 we say if we-- without this condition, we

2 might not approve it, but if we can mitigate

3 the harms with conditions or substantiate

4 benefits, then it will be allowed. So those

5 are the roles that the conditions play. It's

6 fairly important in the Commission's

7 consideration.

8 There are two general types of

9 merger conditions. One are structural

10 conditions. That's like these are often

11 applied in a horizontal merger where you will

12 have two companies that are coming together

13 and decreasing, potentially decreasing, the

14 level of competition in a market.

15 One of the things that can be

16 done is you can look over all the markets

17 these companies are involved with. What we

18 took as an example, when Verizon purchased

19 AllTel, Verizon Wireless purchased AllTel,

20 that was two big wireless companies and in

21 some parts of the country that was fine.

22 There was not much overlap. In other parts

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 there was a lot of overlap.

2 And so a structural change is

3 nice in many ways. A one time change. You

4 say divest one or the other where you

5 overlap. So we preserve the existing level

6 of competition.

7 The other kind of a condition is

8 a behavioral or conduct condition where the

9 applicants are told to do something. This

10 creates an obligation on them that they did

11 not have before that will either mitigate a

12 harm or affirm a benefit.

13 And here, there is a much greater

14 variety. It's not just divesting. It can be

15 we would like you to do the following things.

16 We would like you to provide the following

17 services to confirm that you are going to do

18 a benefit.

19 For instance, when Comcast and

20 NBCU came before us, that was not a

21 horizontal merger so much as a vertical one.

22 And so divestiture in vertical mergers where

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 you are -- where someone up the supply chain

2 is merging with someone below, the

3 divestiture doesn't work so well. And so you

4 rely more on the conduct conditions.

5 And in that one, they said well,

6 this will result in many benefits. We will

7 have -- we will be able to consolidate local

8 programming and have better local

9 programming. We said well, that's nice, but

10 in order to count as a benefit in our merger

11 review, it has to meet certain criteria.

12 It has to be -- we have to be

13 pretty sure it's going to happen. It can't

14 be just an empty promise. And so one way

15 that a merger applicant can prove that it is

16 going to happen is to make an absolute

17 commitment that it will and we will put that

18 in as a merger condition and follow it.

19 So that's one type of condition

20 or mitigating harm. If people fear, for

21 instance, that a vertical merger will result

22 in prejudice to competitors at one level or

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the other, we can put on a condition that

2 will mitigate that harm by requiring the

3 merged entity to act more like they would

4 have acted before the merger.

5 Now, there are different types of

6 merger conditions. And this is the

7 structural and conduct remedies. There are

8 also different ways that the condition can be

9 presented in the order.

10 The order might direct specific

11 conduct. Divestees provide this service. It

12 can also direct specific consequences. In

13 the mergers of the RBOC when they combined,

14 like Bell Atlantic, NYNEX, SBC, Ameritech,

15 there were specific consequences in the

16 merger order that said you should do this to

17 maintain competition or to increase your

18 competition with the remaining companies.

19 And if you don't, then you will pay this

20 fine. And that was specified in the order.

21 The order might establish -- many

22 orders don't establish such specific

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 consequences. The order can alternatively

2 establish a framework for private dispute

3 resolution.

4 When we had the merger between

5 the Hughes Company, which owned DirecTV, and

6 when DirecTV was purchased by News

7 Corporation, that was a vertical merger. And

8 there were some concerns about whether or not

9 there would be discrimination against other

10 programmers and/or the provision of

11 programming to other providers.

12 And the Commission in that case,

13 I think for the first time, established an

14 arbitration remedy, so that the private

15 parties could resolve disputes about that.

16 We said what the standard was and we created

17 a baseball arbitration which is a kind of

18 final offer arbitration which gives a great

19 incentive for the parties to settle, to come

20 closer to each other and then to settle the

21 dispute. So that's another type of

22 condition.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 The order may also include

2 specific reporting obligations to make sure

3 that the applicants are complying with the

4 conditions. And it may provide for

5 termination and it often does.

6 I mean, the conditions generally

7 will last for a fixed period of time. They

8 don't generally go on forever. Sometimes

9 they provide for a re-evaluation at a certain

10 point in time to determine whether it ought

11 to be continued.

12 Okay. The enforcement of merger

13 conditions depends in part on the type of

14 conditions and the provisions in the FCC

15 order that I just described. Some conditions

16 are more or less self-enforcing. The -- for

17 instance, the RBOC merger conditions, if they

18 didn't do such and such, then they would pay

19 a fine. But it was pretty much out there.

20 Another self-enforcing condition

21 can be -- and this is very infrequent and I

22 can only think of one or two examples, which

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 mimic a little bit are the provisions in

2 other regulations which say here is the

3 requirement that you must meet. And if you

4 don't meet it, the license goes away. That's

5 Capital Punishment. It's a very extreme

6 condition. That's not usually used.

7 But there are the -- the

8 arbitration remedy is also a kind of self-

9 enforcing condition, because the parties

10 outside will enforce it.

11 Another way that conditions can

12 be enforced is by if someone is not meeting

13 the condition, you can have a complaint to

14 the Bureau or to the Enforcement Bureau. And

15 I understand there is a complaint portal.

16 CGB has a complaint portal where people go on

17 the website and, just as a side comment, it's

18 interesting to follow the presentation on the

19 website, because it has been an issue of a

20 lot of discussion around here as well as

21 outside.

22 But there is an enforcement

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 portal, which I think is fcc.gov/complaint.

2 Not an enforcement portal, but a complaint

3 portal that will lead citizens, if they have

4 a complaint about a merger, to the process of

5 how they can register that with the

6 Commission.

7 For monitoring compliance with

8 conditions, some conditions in the merger

9 order itself will provide for monitoring and

10 regular reports, periodic reports by the

11 applicants as to their compliance with the

12 conditions. There were a number of these,

13 for instance, in the Comcast/NBCU order.

14 Another way that things are

15 monitored is by complaints and petitions from

16 interested parties. Some of the conditions

17 are designed so that -- our hope is that

18 there won't be complaints, that people will

19 be complying and then we won't hear about it.

20 But we do have the complaints

21 will come in and that's another way of

22 monitoring. The bureaus, the different

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 bureaus that regulate the various industries

2 keep an eye on things. They are constantly

3 in communication with the participants. They

4 get input from citizens who have complaints,

5 so they are constantly monitoring that.

6 And also, the Enforcement Bureau

7 as well has an opportunity to monitor as they

8 look at the complaints that come in.

9 Monitoring the effectiveness of

10 the conditions. This occurs through several

11 mechanisms. One is the relevant industry

12 Bureaus have just their general experience

13 and their oversight as they watch what is

14 happening out there in the industry.

15 They are well-aware of what was

16 stated would ge a potential harm or benefit

17 from a merger transaction. And as they

18 observe going forward, they see is the

19 condition working? Isn't it working?

20 A good measure is the complaints

21 that are received. If they get a lot of

22 complaints, that indicates there is a problem

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 with the condition. Now, the complaints may

2 be you put all these conditions on and it's

3 still having a problem, so they can get that

4 kind of feedback.

5 Another way we monitor

6 effectiveness is through other proceedings.

7 There are several competition reports that

8 are required by our statute on an annual

9 basis or other periodic bases and those -- as

10 they look at the quality of competition in

11 the industry, one of the things that they

12 will take into account is how well are things

13 working, including are the merger conditions

14 that were put on as concentration increased

15 doing what they were intended to do?

16 Perhaps one of the most effective

17 ways of looking back and measuring

18 effectiveness is the next merger comes along,

19 a similar issue is presented. And we will

20 get -- first of all, the Agency itself is

21 very concerned about what -- how to address

22 these new problems, so we will look back at

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 our own experience and judge it, but also the

2 filings that come in.

3 If the condition has been

4 successful, the filings will say, please, put

5 something like that on this one, too. If it

6 has been unsuccessful, they will say well,

7 that didn't work, they something else or make

8 these modifications in light of the

9 experience you have had.

10 And we have done this, I know

11 with the arbitration remedy. We have

12 tinkered with that to try to address some of

13 the concerns that have come up.

14 Finally, modifying merger

15 conditions. Conditions are placed on at the

16 time of the merger. The market place in all

17 of the markets we regulate is changing

18 constantly with technology and other things.

19 So it is sometimes necessary to monitor them.

20 There are changed conditions that make what

21 was once an appropriate condition, no longer

22 appropriate.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 There are also disputes that

2 arise over the ambiguities in the language of

3 a condition. And people can come in at any

4 time and petition the Commission to modify a

5 condition on a merger. We don't -- this

6 doesn't happy that frequently. We do get

7 with some frequency requests to clarify.

8 You know, because often these

9 conditions are put on at a time when no one

10 really knows what is going to happen when

11 these companies combine, when there is that

12 change in the marketplace. And so the

13 conditions are written on the basis of what

14 is potential, what is going to happen. And

15 when actual experience starts happening,

16 often it will -- things will come up that

17 were not anticipated at the time the

18 condition was written.

19 So there might be an ambiguity or

20 a need to revise a condition in some way.

21 And that is done through the modification.

22 So that's the kind of very quick

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 run through of the general structure and I'll

2 be glad to answer any questions.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. That

4 was very informative. Paul and then Claude.

5 MR. SCHROEDER: Thanks. Paul

6 Schroeder with the American Foundation for

7 the Blind.

8 I know that the Disability Work

9 Group had raised this issue partly out of

10 concern that disability issues were not, in

11 our view, being considered as part of merger

12 conditions. And that may be because we

13 haven't been pushing them hard enough. But I

14 wonder if you could speak to how -- well,

15 first of all, have there been, to your

16 knowledge, conditions that related to

17 accessibility?

18 I believe I have read somewhere

19 that there are things like deployment of

20 advance services, ensuring the diversity of

21 information sources and services to the

22 public, those kinds of things are considered

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 generally in the mergers as well as advancing

2 technology, quality of communication

3 services.

4 So there is plenty of ways in

5 which accessibility ought to be considered.

6 And I know we did -- several of us did put in

7 letters for a recent telecom merger where one

8 company clearly had a superior record of

9 accessibility.

10 To a second though, you know,

11 both could certainly use improvement. And

12 that would have been a good opportunity for

13 the FCC to make a very clear statement of

14 disability access as part of the condition.

15 So (A) has that ever been done,

16 to your knowledge? And (B) how can we best

17 intervene to make that happen? And I guess

18 (C) is there something that CAC ought to do

19 about that?

20 MR. BIRD: Thank you. Good

21 question. I am struggling to remember where

22 I have actually seen a condition addressing

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 disabilities. You are correct that that is

2 part of the general public interest mandate

3 put upon us by Congress. So it's certainly

4 an appropriate question to raise.

5 One of the questions that comes

6 up frequently is, with respect to conditions,

7 are they specific to the merger? In other

8 words, is the merger creating a problem that

9 this condition is necessary to fix?

10 And the example that you raised

11 is a good one, I think, where you say these

12 two companies are merging. One of them has a

13 better record. If it is the company that is

14 the purchasing company, that would be a good

15 thing. But I know that in some companies, I

16 think, when -- I'm thinking CenturyLink,

17 Embarq or the one that preceded that was

18 CenturyTel, Embarq or CenturyLink when there

19 were two records and companies with respect

20 to issues of consumer service and

21 performance.

22 The Commission did put some

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 conditions on that, so that would have -- I

2 think it's an appropriate issue to raise.

3 And I would encourage you to do it. It is

4 important to raise it in the context of the

5 proceeding. But I think there is a basis for

6 that.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Clause?

8 MR. STOUT: Hi, this is Claude.

9 I would like to build on what Mark just

10 mentioned or excuse me, Paul just mentioned.

11 First of all, the FCC did address disability

12 issues historically. We remember when AOL

13 combined with Time-Warner and the Time-

14 Warner/ AOL, I'm not sure who was the

15 purchasing company and who was the purchased

16 company there.

17 But the FCC made it clear to AOL

18 that they had to make their instant messenger

19 services interoperable with other services.

20 That was a big get for the disability

21 community. And I would hope that your office

22 moving forward when you are considering

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 merger applications, you can make that a

2 regular item on your checklist, because

3 companies should be actively pursuing hiring

4 of disabled employees, making sure that their

5 products and services are accessible to

6 disabled consumers.

7 And that way, you are helping to

8 serve the public interest, because we are

9 part of the public. And the public interest

10 is in our interest. And I want to thank you

11 for that.

12 MR. BIRD: Thank you. Yes, I

13 remember AOL/Time-Warner.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. That's

15 okay. Yes, yes? Oh, I wasn't sure up or

16 down. Ken?

17 MR. McELDOWNEY: Hi. I may be a

18 little bit off point here, but we work a lot

19 with banks when they are going through

20 mergers. And the regulatory agencies will

21 suppose or, you know, impose things and I

22 guess the banks will indicate what they will

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 be doing in terms of serving the public

2 interest.

3 And part of that is in terms of

4 what foundation -- what they are going to be

5 doing in terms of the combined foundation,

6 what they will be doing maybe in terms of

7 educational programs with the community,

8 commitments to diversity and things like

9 that.

10 Is this ever addressed in merger

11 proposals that come to the FCC?

12 MR. BIRD: Yes. In fact, if you

13 look at the conditions in the Comcast/NBCU

14 merger, there were a number of conditions

15 that addressed the public interest part of

16 our standard that involves providing the paid

17 programming, it's public access, education

18 and government programming, children's

19 television was addressed and has been

20 addressed in a couple of the mergers.

21 But that is definitely one of the

22 services to the community, particularly in

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 broadcast mergers is a topic that is often

2 addressed in the merger.

3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. I have

4 seen it in broadcast, but has that been done

5 when telecom mergers have been approved?

6 MR. BIRD: I think the conditions

7 on telecom mergers primarily address the

8 provision of the service, getting the service

9 out and preserving competition in that

10 marketplace. USF, however, which is the

11 public interest part of getting this service

12 out does come up in merger conditions. And I

13 think in AllTel, Verizon/AllTel there was a

14 specific condition about that.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Do you have

16 a question, Mitsi?

17 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera.

18 CHAIR BERLYN: I think you are

19 on.

20 MS. HERRERA: Montgomery County,

21 MD. Is it on? My question is can you talk

22 about the process for after you impose the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 merger conditions, how you monitor

2 compliance? Earlier this morning, I talked

3 about one of the conditions of Comcast merger

4 with NBC Universal. Was it they offer

5 certain things? They have a three year cycle

6 in which they have to do these things. It

7 has not gone well the first year.

8 So what happens both from that

9 perspective of just the overall compliance

10 picture?

11 And then it seems to me that some

12 times in these mergers, there are conditions

13 that are imposed, but there wasn't a lot of

14 research that went into the benchmarks that

15 are set.

16 So, for example, using school

17 lunch as a benchmark for income eligibility.

18 It turns out that there are lots of problems

19 engaged in that. So does the Bureau do

20 something so that you kind of learn from

21 those lessons if we have a similar or another

22 type of thing that we have got a way that we

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 don't keep making the same difficult to

2 monitor conditions as part of them?

3 MR. BIRD: Okay. Well, a couple

4 of answers. One is I'm not -- I'll have to

5 look at that specific Comcast condition, but

6 I know that in a number of the conditions

7 like that one in Comcast, there were

8 quarterly reports due from the applicant.

9 Now, if the quarterly report

10 shows they are not meeting the conditions,

11 then that's an action item for either the

12 Bureau or the Enforcement Bureau to take

13 action to stimulate them to comply with the

14 condition. There are those sanctions which

15 can be applied if they are not complying.

16 MS. HERRERA: So I'm sorry, do --

17 the sanctions are those things that have to

18 be put into the merger itself as an

19 enforcement or is there sort of a standing

20 set? Because they have already gone and

21 merged.

22 MR. BIRD: Right. No, the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 enforcement -- once an order comes out, it's

2 an order of the Commission. If they are not

3 complying with the condition, they are

4 violating an order of the Commission and the

5 Enforcement Bureau has authority to enforce

6 with the sanctions that are available to

7 them.

8 The second question about

9 learning from experience, that's a great

10 question. And we do learn from experience.

11 It is very helpful to us to have input from

12 the public, because you will see things that

13 sometimes we don't see. So if you would --

14 you know, if you say just let us know if

15 something is not working, if the measure is

16 wrong, just let us know about that, because

17 that's -- we do want to learn from that. We

18 want the conditions to be effective.

19 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Great.

20 Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your

21 coming here --

22 MR. BIRD: Thank you.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: -- and giving us

2 that report. Thank you.

3 (Applause)

4 CHAIR BERLYN: We now have our

5 working groups and Scott is going to come and

6 tell us where we are going. Hold for

7 instructions. So we have until 3:00 for our

8 working groups, which includes a short break.

9 You can take it before your working group,

10 after your working group, but we will be

11 meeting back here promptly at 3:00.

12 So it is now 2:00. Paul, can you

13 give Scott your mike there?

14 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: So he --

16 MR. SCHROEDER: Coming your way.

17 CHAIR BERLYN: Sorry, sorry

18 there, Scott.

19 MR. MARSHALL: Not to worry.

20 Hang on one second. This is Scott and I'll

21 be right with you.

22 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. LEWIS: This is Clayton.

2 Would it be possible for me to get patched

3 into the Disability Working Group?

4 MR. MARSHALL: Yes. If you call

5 in on the -- or hang on that number that you

6 are on now, yes, you can participate.

7 MR. LEWIS: Sounds good. Thanks.

8 MR. MARSHALL: It's like no

9 problem. All right. Let's see, I'm sorry.

10 Yes, we have breakouts. Right across the

11 hall here without going upstairs or anything

12 of that sort, that would be on your left hand

13 side just go past the intersecting hallway

14 where the restrooms are, keep going straight

15 and that's TWA-402 and 442, that's adjoining

16 rooms.

17 And then going up the --

18 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott?

19 MR. MARSHALL: Yes?

20 CHAIR BERLYN: Which one are we

21 going to have in there?

22 MR. MARSHALL: Oh, okay. All

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 right. Oh, I'm sorry. Picky, picky, a minor

2 detail, a minor detail.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, first of

4 all, we are going to have disability stay --

5 MR. MARSHALL: Disability will

6 stay here.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: -- here. Okay.

8 MR. MARSHALL: Because of the

9 captioning availability and all that sort of

10 stuff.

11 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.

12 MR. MARSHALL: Who else wants to

13 meet, first of all?

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Media. Media

15 Working Group is going to meet, so shall we

16 put them in the first --

17 MR. MARSHALL: Yes, one of those

18 rooms, yes.

19 CHAIR BERLYN: -- one then?

20 MR. MARSHALL: That would be

21 fine.

22 CHAIR BERLYN: In 402?

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. MARSHALL: 402.

2 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.

3 MR. MARSHALL: That would work.

4 Media 402. Broadband, do you want to meet?

5 MR. BARTHOLME: We'll stay here.

6 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. Well, you

7 do have a choice.

8 MR. BARTHOLME: We could take a

9 long break though.

10 MR. MARSHALL: You are pretty

11 big, so you should probably go up to 468,

12 which is up the stairway and to your right.

13 CHAIR BERLYN: Right.

14 MR. MARSHALL: Up the stairway

15 and then make a right and then it will be on

16 your right, that's TWC-468. Okay. And

17 anybody else want to meet? Universal

18 Service? Okay. Universal Service, why don't

19 you do 442, which is right next to 402.

20 CHAIR BERLYN: Right.

21 MR. MARSHALL: And then --

22 CHAIR BERLYN: Consumer wants to

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2 MR. MARSHALL: -- Consumer, you

3 have a choice. You can either stay here at

4 the other end of this room or the only other

5 rooms I have available are on the second

6 floor and that's not a problem, but you will

7 need one of us to guide you up there to get

8 through the locked doors and all that kind of

9 stuff.

10 MR. BARTHOLME: We will happily

11 stay here.

12 MR. MARSHALL: You'll happily

13 stay here. All right. So I guess that takes

14 care of it. All right. Thanks, everybody.

15 We will see you around 3:00.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Okay.

17 That works.

18 (Whereupon, at 2:06 p.m. a recess

19 until 3:10 p.m.)

20 CHAIR BERLYN: We are going to

21 jump right into our working group reports and

22 action. I'm going to call on the Disability

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Working Group first and, Lise, if you could

2 report back and share some information with

3 us?

4 MS. HAMLIN: Okay. Thank you.

5 This is Lise Hamlin from Hearing Loss

6 Association. We are going to give a quick

7 report of the whole committee and then

8 Rebecca Ladew had sent out, through Scott's

9 email to you, a report on speech-to-speech

10 and she will give a real -- we will both do

11 real brief updates on where we are here.

12 First, I wanted to give you a

13 heads up on right now we have not brought

14 recommendations, but we are planning to for

15 our last meeting in October. So we are going

16 to be catching up here. So we expect to have

17 a recommendation on speech-to-speech.

18 We will be also working on a new

19 issue which is accessible textbooks. There

20 are now textbooks coming out that have, the

21 eTextbooks that have video on audible

22 content. And we will put together a

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2 bring forward.

3 We are going to also take a look

4 at mobile health care, the same kind of

5 problems, so that -- remote health care, so

6 there are problems with access to, so we are

7 going to take a look at that and see if there

8 is a recommendation that may or may not come

9 out. We are going to take a look at that.

10 And finally, we are also looking

11 at what is happening with mobile captioning

12 and new entries into the marketplace and how

13 we can recommend -- how the FCC can

14 facilitate that.

15 There was also some discussion

16 now with -- we are not sure we are going to

17 come up a recommendation on this, but you

18 should be aware that now that video

19 description is getting on board and we are

20 going forward with CVAA, monitoring of

21 compliance with the new rules is going to be

22 an issue.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So I think what will happen from

2 the Disability Working Group is we will take

3 a look at how that is happening, what -- how

4 we can see that people are actually

5 fulfilling their obligations. And if at some

6 point in the future we feel that we need a

7 recommendation on that, we may come forward

8 with that as well.

9 We also just landed -- Clayton is

10 moving to the Department of Ed.

11 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh really?

12 MS. HAMLIN: Yes. I hope that

13 was public, Clayton. Ken told our group. So

14 we are losing him from the group, but we wish

15 him well and we want to thank him for all his

16 work on the group. And so now, I'm going to

17 turn it over to Rebecca for her report on

18 speech-to-speech.

19 MS. LADEW: Hi. If the FCC wants

20 individuals with speech disabilities to enjoy

21 connectivity with others under the Broadband

22 Program, the Wide Area Network, then the FCC

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 should start thinking about installing the

2 rules and regulations for speech-to-speech

3 that were proposed under the 1998 Notice of

4 Proposed Rulemaking.

5 It is urgent that these rules and

6 regulations be installed or replaced to meet

7 the 21st Century technological advances.

8 Also, updating the rules and

9 regulations will assist in adding a new

10 service that the speech disabled community

11 would like to have installed, video-assisted

12 speech-to-speech.

13 There is a video speech-to-speech

14 trial going on in Virginia that I will be

15 participating in. California recently had

16 its trial. Hopefully more states will follow

17 suit.

18 Updating the rules and

19 regulations for speech-to-speech and the

20 installation of video speech-to-speech would

21 greatly enhance the Next Generation 911

22 services for the speech disabled community.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 It is hoped that the Disabilities

2 Working Group and the full CAC will give its

3 full support on this issue.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you

5 very much, Lise and Rebecca. I appreciate

6 that and appreciate your report and the work

7 that your working group is doing. Thank you.

8 I see Ed is still working with his group back

9 there. The working group is still working.

10 Shall we -- we are going to skip the Consumer

11 Empowerment Working Group for now.

12 And, Barry, are you ready to

13 report? I see you at your computer there.

14 MR. UMANSKY: What we have

15 arrived from this today, we have --

16 PARTICIPANT: The mike.

17 MR. UMANSKY: Hello? We have

18 decided to defer until October. A matter

19 dealing with political broadcast advertising

20 disclosure, it's clear this is not a good

21 time for -- to expect any resolution or

22 changes by the FCC nor the Congress. So stay

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 tuned for that in October.

2 Oh, you do have before you, and

3 they are both in your packet, two documents.

4 One has been edited and we are going to put

5 it on the screen in a few minutes. Okay.

6 Any more and I'll be eating it. I think this

7 is not on. Hello?

8 PARTICIPANT: The switch.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: Maybe raise your

10 hand. No, I think it's working.

11 MR. UMANSKY: I've raised all

12 seven hands here.

13 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Yes.

14 MR. UMANSKY: Okay.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: You have a great

16 voice, but it's --

17 MR. UMANSKY: Are you there yet?

18 PARTICIPANT: Do you want to try

19 this one?

20 CHAIR BERLYN: No, I think it's

21 working.

22 PARTICIPANT: Okay.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. I will just

2 spare you a repeat. What we have before you

3 now, two recommendations. One deals with

4 emergency messaging. And you might recall at

5 an earlier CAC meeting, we were talking about

6 the results of the First National Test of the

7 Emergency Alert System.

8 And in the original presentation,

9 we talked about how people watching over

10 multi-channel video providers, some might

11 have some difficulty if they were hearing

12 impaired.

13 During the course of the

14 discussion, there was a consensus developed

15 that when it comes to emergency alerting and

16 emergency communications, through EAS or

17 other means, that this group has an interest

18 in everyone being able to receive them,

19 regardless of whether they might be hearing-

20 impaired, visually-impaired or part of the

21 deaf/blind community.

22 That was fine and that was our

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 recommendation from last year.

2 Now, we are looking at other

3 changes in the emergency alerting. Kicking

4 in later this month is the new requirement

5 for what's called Common Alerting Protocol.

6 It's a technology to be adopted now by

7 broadcast stations and multi-channel

8 providers.

9 It seems clear that down the road

10 a technology like this will be applied to

11 mobile wireless services, perhaps even to

12 social media, all with the goal of ensuring

13 that members of the public, when there is an

14 alerting message to be distributed, have a

15 fighting chance of hearing it, seeing it,

16 sensing it.

17 So the recommendation we have for

18 you just looks to what is happening now with

19 the Common Alerting Protocol and looking to

20 the future of other technologies. I have

21 talked to many people here. I have talked to

22 members of our working group and other

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 members of the CAC, in general, and there

2 seems to be a consensus and support and we

3 certainly accept any discussion or

4 recommendations on that one.

5 Is there a motion?

6 CHAIR BERLYN: Motion to --

7 MR. UMANSKY: Accept.

8 CHAIR BERLYN: -- accept the

9 recommendation from the floor? A motion?

10 MR. UMANSKY: Thank you. Is

11 there a second?

12 CHAIR BERLYN: Can people

13 verbalize this as well?

14 MR. UMANSKY: It was Mitsi

15 Herrera.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So

17 discussion on the recommendation? Any

18 discussion? Lise?

19 MS. HAMLIN: Can I --

20 CHAIR BERLYN: Lise, raise your

21 hand.

22 MS. HAMLIN: Can I just ask where

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 this is in our -- is it in our packet?

2 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, it is.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: It is in the

4 packet.

5 MS. HAMLIN: Which one is it?

6 What does it say on top?

7 MR. UMANSKY: Well, it says --

8 the heading is "FCC Consumer Advisory

9 Committee Further Recommendation Regarding

10 the Provision of Emergency Messages to the

11 Public." We sent this draft to Scott many

12 days ago and then many days ago he --

13 CHAIR BERLYN: It's in there.

14 MR. UMANSKY: -- sent it

15 electronically and you have hard copies in

16 your packet.

17 CHAIR BERLYN: It's in there. Do

18 you see it, Lise?

19 MR. UMANSKY: You got an email

20 from Scott about three or four days ago with

21 this document and it's also in hard copy in

22 the packet.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: The hard copy is

2 in the packet.

3 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. Thank you.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Any -- oh, Mitsi?

5 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,

6 Montgomery County. I don't have any -- I

7 think it's a good effort and I don't have any

8 objection to it. I would just say that if

9 it's possible for looking at, at some point,

10 what the FCC has done with our

11 recommendations, it may be useful that you

12 recast this as the CAC recommends one, two,

13 three, four, because you have now got four

14 items in here, two are numbered.

15 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. The first

16 paragraph describes what we did before. I

17 think what we should recommend though is that

18 when we get back together in October, that we

19 have representatives from the Commission's

20 staff talk about their assessment of the EAS

21 National Test, the effectiveness of the

22 Common Alerting Protocol and perhaps give us

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 a glimpse of how, in the future, there may be

2 additional ways of alerting the public to

3 emergency information. Okay. All right.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Any further

5 discussion? Okay. I'll call the question.

6 All those in favor say aye.

7 ALL: Aye.

8 CHAIR BERLYN: Any opposed? I'm

9 sorry? Oh, okay. Any abstentions? Okay.

10 No abstentions, Scott. And no opposed.

11 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. For the next

12 presentation, if we could ask those in the

13 booth to put the -- there we go. Great.

14 What I have done is split this up, so that

15 people can see it in very large print.

16 What we have done is taken the

17 second recommendation that the working group,

18 our Media Working Group, has advanced to you

19 and we have shortened it, tightened it and

20 made it a little more consumer-focused.

21 The opening paragraph is the

22 same, given the background of how the

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Commission is responding to --

2 PARTICIPANT: Is this the

3 Spectrum?

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.

5 MR. UMANSKY: It certainly is.

6 CHAIR BERLYN: This is the --

7 MR. UMANSKY: That's the only one

8 left to talk about.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, would you

10 just read the header, that might -- just so

11 people can find it in their packet?

12 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, there you go.

13 "FCC Consumer Advisory Committee

14 Recommendation Regarding Spectrum

15 Reallocation and Reauthorization." Okay.

16 MR. MARSHALL: Barry, did I

17 understand you correctly, what you are

18 presenting now is different than what was

19 distributed --

20 MR. UMANSKY: Right. What we

21 have done --

22 MR. MARSHALL: -- in the packet?

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Okay. Go ahead.

2 MR. UMANSKY: -- we have had

3 meetings of --

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, changes.

5 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.

6 MR. UMANSKY: -- our Media

7 Working Group.

8 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.

9 MR. UMANSKY: We have consulted

10 with others and we are offering for you,

11 basically, something that will take this

12 screen, another page and then one sentence.

13 So we put it in large print.

14 The first paragraph is what you

15 have seen verbatim from the original

16 recommendation. So we move to the next page,

17 it says "Whereas, the public has an interest

18 in both the expansion of wireless broadband

19 services and the continued provision of

20 valuable over-the-air television broadcast

21 services and local stations. Therefore, be

22 it resolved that the FCC's Consumer Advisory

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Committee, CAC" --

2 PARTICIPANT: Slow down.

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, slow down

4 just a bit.

5 PARTICIPANT: Our interpreter is

6 interpreting.

7 MR. UMANSKY: Oh, I'm sorry.

8 CAC.

9 PARTICIPANT: Don't mumble and

10 slow down.

11 MR. UMANSKY: Although, it's on

12 the screen.

13 PARTICIPANT: Okay.

14 MR. UMANSKY: And even those at

15 home --

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Some may -- yes.

17 MR. UMANSKY: -- see it on the

18 screen.

19 CHAIR BERLYN: Some may not be

20 able to do that.

21 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. Again,

22 nothing has changed up to the paragraph that

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 is on your screen. Let's start out, "urges

2 that consistent with the terms of the," and

3 this is the legislation discussed earlier by

4 the FCC staff, "Middle Class Tax Relief and

5 Job Creation Act of 2012. FCC regulatory

6 proceedings to reallocate and reauthorize

7 portions of the Spectrum heretofore used for

8 over-the-air television broadcasting, in

9 short, one, that the impact to television

10 viewers is minimized, while at the same time

11 maximizing benefits to wireless consumers.

12 And two, that terrestrial

13 television stations, terrestrial stations

14 retain the ability to offer and consumers

15 retain the ability to benefit from high

16 definition, multi-cast programming and

17 innovative new services, such as mobile DTV."

18 That is the recommendation

19 offered for you. It has been approved by the

20 Media Working Group and of others with whom

21 we have spoken today.

22 CHAIR BERLYN: Do --

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. UMANSKY: Put it back up.

2 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, put it back

3 on the screen while we are talking about it.

4 Do I have a motion to move the

5 recommendation? I need a motion from the

6 floor before discussion. I have a motion to

7 move it from Mary. Second?

8 MS. LEECH: Second.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: And I have a

10 second from Irene. Discussion? Scott, I saw

11 your card go up first. Scott, raise your

12 hand and pull the mike.

13 MR. BERGMANN: I forget every

14 time.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: Raise your hand.

16 MR. BERGMANN: Sorry about that.

17 Scott Bergmann from CTIA. Can everybody hear

18 me okay now?

19 CHAIR BERLYN: I think so.

20 MR. BERGMANN: So I just have --

21 I'm not on the Media Working Group, but I

22 wanted to thank the members of the Media

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Working Group for trying to refocus this

2 recommendation a little bit more towards

3 consumers. So I appreciate that.

4 And I guess, to that note, I

5 wanted to suggest that the second

6 recommendation has added the concept of

7 consumers by consumers retaining the ability

8 to benefit da, da, da. But I wanted to ask

9 about that first part of Recommendation No.

10 2, which talks about terrestrial stations

11 retaining the ability to offer.

12 And it seems to me like that

13 would depend on which options a broadcast

14 station chose under the new Act, right? The

15 Act provides a variety of different things.

16 So I guess my recommendation --

17 and some of them are inconsistent with that,

18 right? If someone chose to really push their

19 Spectrum or to channel share, they might not

20 retain that ability.

21 So I guess my recommendation

22 would be to start No. 2 with a focus on

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 consumers. So, you know, as you guys have

2 really nicely captured with No. 1, I think

3 you have recognized there is a balance,

4 right? There is going to be upside to

5 consumers and you also want to minimize

6 disruption to them as well, too.

7 And I guess I would encourage

8 folks to orient the second recommendation to

9 consumers as well, too. So just to flow No.

10 2 from consumers retaining the ability to

11 benefit from those services that you guys

12 listed there as well, too.

13 So I guess that was thought one.

14 And thought two was just to make sure -- I

15 think the intent of this recommendation is to

16 be consistent with the Act that was passed

17 and -- which reflects a balancing of

18 different public policy benefits one way or

19 the other. And I just wanted to make sure

20 that that was the case. And if it's not the

21 case, to find out. So those were my two

22 comments.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Again, thank you guys for being

2 willing to -- particularly given that this is

3 a Consumer Advisory Committee focused on the

4 consumer perspective on this recommendation.

5 MR. UMANSKY: Yes?

6 MS. KEARNEY: This is Julie

7 Kearney from CEA. And I think Mitsi and I

8 are both a little confused. What is our goal

9 with this recommendation? Because the

10 statute, you know, gives the Commission some

11 very clear direction on what --

12 MR. UMANSKY: It does.

13 MS. KEARNEY: -- they are to do.

14 So are we -- I would like just to understand

15 further, do we need to tell the Commission

16 what they need to do?

17 MR. UMANSKY: No. I think there

18 is a couple of very clear consumer elements

19 of that, you know, Middle Class Tax Cut

20 Extension. And this recommendation is keyed

21 to and suggests the Commission, of course,

22 will follow the lead, the mandate of

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Congress.

2 But to point out how there are

3 consumer benefits here, isn't just an

4 industry-wide issue.

5 MS. KEARNEY: Do --

6 MR. UMANSKY: That --

7 MS. KEARNEY: Okay. I guess my

8 question is do we do this with every piece of

9 legislation that comes down? Did we do this

10 with CVAA, telling the Commission to follow

11 what Congress told them to do? I just wonder

12 what the -- you know, what do we want them to

13 do?

14 MR. UMANSKY: The expression of

15 the desires of the Consumer Advisory

16 Committee. It need not replicate every

17 element of every statute, but it's simply an

18 expression of their interest in the matter.

19 CHAIR BERLYN: Mitsi?

20 MS. HERRERA: Okay. So beyond

21 the fact that it is -- I'm not really clear

22 what the value-added necessary consumer spin

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 of it is. But substantively, I am somewhat

2 concerned that impact on viewers is minimized

3 is a somewhat murky and nebulous term. And I

4 don't necessarily -- I mean, I haven't been

5 in the Media Working Group.

6 MR. UMANSKY: Right.

7 MS. HERRERA: But to some extent,

8 over-the-air broadcast is the least efficient

9 use of Spectrum. And to -- and there is

10 only, what is it, under 10 percent of people

11 who have televisions use over-the-air --

12 MR. UMANSKY: Right.

13 MS. HERRERA: -- to receive

14 those. So I'm not necessarily sure that

15 protecting the right of those 10 percent of

16 the population to continue to get it over-

17 the-air is something that -- and the impact

18 on them has to be minimized in moving forward

19 with wireless broadband.

20 MR. UMANSKY: Well, for better or

21 for worse, that's what the statute requires,

22 that there are people that their only choice

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 is over-the-air television. That quantum

2 will probably continue for quite a while.

3 MS. HERRERA: So --

4 MR. UMANSKY: There is nothing in

5 this statement that is antithetical to what

6 the Congress has directed the FCC to do.

7 MS. HERRERA: Okay. So I have

8 not reviewed the statute in any -- I haven't

9 reviewed it at all. So can you point out in

10 that -- in the resolution what is the

11 resolution stating that goes beyond what the

12 statute directs the FCC to do?

13 MR. UMANSKY: Nothing.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Can we put it back

15 up on the screen? Thank you.

16 MS. HERRERA: Then I'm not really

17 understanding --

18 MR. UMANSKY: It is --

19 MS. HERRERA: -- then why we are

20 submitting it. If it's -- I mean, most of

21 the things that we have had have sort of been

22 pointing out things that have fallen through

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the cracks or raising the awareness of

2 specific things from, in a lot of ways, a

3 consumer and a user perspective that

4 sometimes people at the top don't look at.

5 And I'm just trying to

6 understand. Is it that because we want to be

7 engaged on the issue with the FCC? Because

8 one of the things we talked about was looking

9 to see how the FCC dealt specifically with

10 the recommendations that we gave.

11 MR. UMANSKY: Right.

12 MS. HERRERA: So if we are sort

13 of just giving a recommendation that says we

14 resolve that you should follow the statute,

15 I'm -- it makes it difficult, I think, to

16 look to see the value that we have created

17 and provided.

18 MR. UMANSKY: I have looked at

19 the last 11 or 12 years worth of

20 recommendations coming from this Advisory

21 Committee. And in many issues, the Advisory

22 Committee simply expresses its opinion, its

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 views, which in some cases are completely

2 congruent with what relevant statutes are and

3 the thrust of FCC proceedings.

4 But that has not barred this

5 Committee from expressing itself on issues it

6 considers to be important to consumers. This

7 would not be breaking new ground in terms of

8 the role of the Consumer Advisory Committee

9 at all.

10 It would be an expression of a

11 viewpoint and a direction. And it is not

12 antithetical to the terms of the statute.

13 Ann?

14 CHAIR BERLYN: I have Ann and

15 then Luisa.

16 MS. BOBECK: Hi, Ann Bobeck with

17 the National Association of Broadcasters. I

18 just want to point out it is entirely

19 consistent with the statute to promote

20 advance wireless broadband service in terms

21 of availability of Spectrum, but also crucial

22 to the point to preserve free over-the-air

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 television --

2 MR. UMANSKY: Right.

3 MS. BOBECK: -- to the 46 million

4 television sets and the people that are

5 reliant on free over-the-air television.

6 Remember who those people are. It is the

7 elderly, Hispanic. It is often the low-

8 income folks, persons with disabilities.

9 So to say that it is not

10 efficient, I honestly take disagreement that

11 a one-to-many service is not an efficient use

12 of Spectrum. We can have an off-line

13 discussion that.

14 But, you know, the statute

15 recognized the value of both services and I

16 would think that if you took a poll around

17 this table and all the folks that went

18 through the DTV transition, then -- and the

19 95 out of the top 100 programs that are on

20 broadcast television as the most popular

21 television programs, I think a lot of

22 consumers do value free over-the-air

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2 So I think it is important as the

3 Advisory Committee that should we want to

4 value a Spectrum reallocation, that it is

5 important that anything that remains post-

6 reallocation as we repack the broadcast

7 Spectrum, that consumers don't lose that

8 access, particularly those at-risk consumers.

9 I think that's the intent of the

10 recommendation, to recognize there is value

11 in freeing up in a Spectrum Incentive Auction

12 for new services, but not disenfranchise

13 consumers in the process. I think that's an

14 important public policy goal for this

15 Advisory Committee to recognize.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Luisa?

17 MS. LANCETTI: Luisa Lancetti.

18 Obviously, my company is --

19 CHAIR BERLYN: Just raise your

20 hand and identify yourself.

21 MS. LANCETTI: My company is very

22 keen, obviously, on Spectrum matters and was

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 involved in trying to fashion effective

2 Spectrum legislation that can now be the

3 basis for these important Commission

4 proceedings.

5 With that said, I am worried that

6 there be unintended consequences here,

7 because I do hear on one hand the notion that

8 this is only meant to confirm what the

9 statute is requiring and, therefore, the

10 Commission should be guided by and

11 implementing the legislation.

12 But then other comments

13 suggesting that no, perhaps this should go

14 beyond that in terms of the consumer impacts

15 and issues.

16 So with that said, and having not

17 been involved in the Media Group

18 deliberations, I'm a little concerned that,

19 again, we not have unintended consequences as

20 a result of this resolution.

21 CHAIR BERLYN: Paul and then

22 Julie again. Paul needs a mike. Can someone

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 --

2 MR. SCHROEDER: Am I stealing

3 from you, Barry? Uh-oh. Well, now, Paul

4 Schroeder, American Foundation for the Blind.

5 I have got the old language here

6 in front of me, but can -- before I say

7 anything further, can you remind me what the

8 new language says in the section that

9 referred, it was Item No. 2, under the

10 therefores, high definition, multi-cast

11 programming, innovative new services, mobile

12 DTV, etcetera?

13 MR. UMANSKY: Right. Okay.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry?

15 MR. UMANSKY: I would say that --

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry, pull the

17 mike up.

18 MR. UMANSKY: Again, according to

19 the legislation itself, that the proceedings

20 of the Commission to reallocate or

21 reauthorize portions of the Spectrum

22 heretofore used for over-the-air television

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 broadcasting ensure: (1) That the impact to

2 television viewers is minimized while at the

3 same time maximizing benefits for wireless

4 consumers.

5 And (2), which I think is your

6 focus, that terrestrial stations retain the

7 ability to offer and consumers retain the

8 ability to benefit from high definition,

9 multi-cast programming and innovative new

10 services, such as mobile DTV.

11 MR. SCHROEDER: Right. Paul

12 Schroeder with AFB. Then this is exactly, I

13 think, where, I would say, the Consumer

14 Advisory Committee could step in and suggest

15 that, in fact, in this section we clarify

16 that, since there has been such a challenge

17 facing broadcasters in terms of how to

18 allocate portions of Spectrum for description

19 channel, for example, compared to the

20 Spectrum allocated for Spanish, as a second

21 audio channel.

22 That perhaps we add that language

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 in here to express that this is an

2 opportunity for the Commission to make clear

3 that that is a direction that would be

4 helpful to see broadcasters go with this

5 public Spectrum.

6 MR. UMANSKY: Any other comments?

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Julie?

8 MS. KEARNEY: This is getting

9 interesting. I think just given the

10 discussion we are having here, and a lot of

11 us including Ann and Scott and Luisa and

12 Mary, we are all pretty familiar with the

13 legislation.

14 There are a lot of consumer

15 benefit that aren't just limited to this.

16 There was First Responder language. There

17 was -- you know, there are different

18 elements.

19 And I think I would be more

20 comfortable taking the Act in its, you know,

21 sort of entirety and focusing on the

22 different consumer benefits, rather than just

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 this specific benefit or directing the

2 Commission to -- in their implementation,

3 that they look to benefits for consumers like

4 broadcasting, like advanced communication

5 services, like First Responders, you know,

6 that we take a higher level approach.

7 I'm just SCEA. I'm not

8 comfortable with a specific, you know,

9 direction that this is going in. So I would

10 rather have a high level approach, take some

11 more time to look at the Act and look at the

12 benefits, the full benefits for consumers.

13 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott, do you have

14 your card -- did you have your card up a

15 second time?

16 MR. BERGMANN: I see that now.

17 CHAIR BERLYN: You did or --

18 okay.

19 MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann,

20 CTIA. I'll get it eventually. I think there

21 is a lot of merit to what Julie suggests.

22 And this is one of the challenges about

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 trying to opine about a piece of legislation

2 that affects a variety of different piece

3 parts.

4 Right? It reflects our national

5 goals in terms of over-the-air broadcasting,

6 in terms of mobile broadband, in terms of

7 public safety and having the chance to have

8 the whole Committee work on its

9 interpretation probably would be beneficial,

10 right, to address accessibility issues that

11 Paul has raised as well, too.

12 So I would certainly be more

13 comfortable with that approach as well, too.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Lise and Mitsi.

15 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin here.

16 Let me just say that while some people here

17 actually are real familiar with this, I am

18 not. I don't know if I'm the only one here

19 who is not real familiar with this statute.

20 And, for me, I'm finding that I'm

21 not -- I'm listening to the back and forth,

22 but I don't have enough background. So I'm

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 wondering, and I see other suggestions, if

2 the Committee would consider giving us more

3 background and more information between now

4 and maybe the next meeting or if you want to

5 vote in the interim. I don't know if there

6 is a need for a big rush for this to come

7 out.

8 But I would feel personally more

9 comfortable if I had more information to work

10 with.

11 MR. UMANSKY: Yes. I don't

12 believe --

13 MS. HAMLIN: Would you raise your

14 hand, because I can't hear you?

15 MR. UMANSKY: Yes.

16 MS. HAMLIN: Every time you go

17 off mike.

18 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, if I can

19 just--

20 CHAIR BERLYN: And get close to

21 the mike there, Barry.

22 MR. UMANSKY: -- respond here.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Hi. I'm not sure what the number of arrows

2 we have on our quiver in terms of dealing

3 with this procedurally, but I would be

4 amenable to a small task group be set up to

5 put together another draft, one that could be

6 distributed electronically to the Members of

7 this plenary Advisory Committee. And if we

8 can vote in the interim, that's fine.

9 If not, this may have to wait

10 until the fall. But I see that there are a

11 number of people with some good ideas. And I

12 think that to that extent, we would have

13 something that would be -- reflect those

14 sentiments to the extent that they have

15 support, that's fine.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott?

17 MR. MARSHALL: I was just going

18 to point out --

19 CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry. Mitsi

20 had her card up before you. So can we get

21 her comment and then your's?

22 MR. MARSHALL: Sure.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. HERRERA: Mitsuko Herrera,

2 Montgomery County. I don't disagree with

3 what Julie and Lise have said. I am

4 sensitive to the fact that I think it is

5 significantly expanding the scope of work.

6 If the resolution wants to be tailored just

7 to address the impact on over-the-air

8 television, people who receive television

9 over-the-air, in the Act, does it spell out

10 any type of other things that the FCC should

11 be doing?

12 In my community, we have had lots

13 of complaints from people that when they had

14 digital television, they lose certain

15 channels. They have had certain issues

16 related to their ability to continue to

17 receive those signals.

18 And so what I'm wondering is

19 rather than just saying that you want to

20 minimize the impact, should you actually be

21 before you start getting rid of more

22 Spectrum, try to address those issues related

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 to the transition to ensure that people who

2 are relying on over-the-air reception

3 actually get good reception and that the

4 reception extends to the distances that it

5 needs to.

6 MR. UMANSKY: Right. Part of the

7 Act and part of the provisions of FCC

8 proceedings deal with replicating service

9 areas, deal with ensuring that people that

10 can receive television, in particular,

11 choices on the dial, continue to receive

12 those choices. That's one of the challenges

13 of repacking the Spectrum.

14 So, yes, you will find that those

15 issues are clearly in the statute and in

16 the-- it will be part of the FCC's Rulemaking

17 Proceedings.

18 MS. HERRERA: So, I mean, if what

19 we are looking at doing is advocating on

20 behalf of consumers, so in this area, there

21 are lots of people who sort of sit in this no

22 man's land between Baltimore and Washington,

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 D.C. And they sort of complain about, you

2 know, which channels they got or which ones

3 they didn't.

4 And I get the calls, so that's

5 why I'm mentioning it. But if what we are

6 talking about is that we want to promote and

7 make sure that the FCC looks after the

8 consumer interest of those people who receive

9 over-the-air signals, then I would just feel

10 that having that spelled out a little bit

11 more in the resolution would be more helpful

12 to the FCC.

13 MR. UMANSKY: Again, the statute

14 went beyond just talking about those people

15 that receive it over-the-air. We are talking

16 about a communication service and its ability

17 to provide that service continually to the

18 public.

19 One can look to the litany of FCC

20 proceedings dealing with cable carrying and

21 nonduplication, the whole relationship of

22 over-the-air broadcasting other media.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 And looking at the context now of

2 the Spectrum reallocation, there are larger

3 communications policy issues than just simply

4 people being able to view it over-the-air.

5 I think, again, I would be

6 amenable to having a small task group look at

7 this one more time. The hour is late.

8 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, we --

9 MR. UMANSKY: And perhaps if

10 that's one of our choices, Madam Chairperson,

11 we would appoint that group.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: Do we need a

13 motion for that, Scott?

14 MR. BERGMANN: Sure.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. So could we

16 have a motion on the floor to do that? And,

17 Scott, do you need to do anything? Do you

18 have a --

19 MR. BERGMANN: I would still

20 point out to folks who may not track the

21 issue --

22 CHAIR BERLYN: Raise your hand.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann,

2 again, with CTIA. I was going to point out

3 for folks who don't track --

4 CHAIR BERLYN: I don't think you

5 are on mike.

6 MR. BERGMANN: -- these issues,

7 that the FCC has not yet released its NPRM on

8 implementing the statute yet. So there is

9 time. The FCC has targeted the fall for at

10 least an NPRM, so --

11 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.

12 MR. BERGMANN: -- in contrast to

13 some of the other issues where we are

14 weighing in after the record is closed, here

15 the FCC is still in the process of putting

16 together these Notices of Proposed

17 Rulemaking.

18 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.

19 MR. BERGMANN: So there is the

20 advantage of having some time.

21 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So a

22 recommendation from the floor?

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. LEECH: We've got a motion

2 that is alive?

3 MR. UMANSKY: Yes.

4 MS. LEECH: Do we adjust that --

5 MS. HAMLIN: Can't hear you,

6 Irene.

7 PARTICIPANT: I can't hear her.

8 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh, yes, we have

9 -- there is a recommendation to approve the

10 --

11 MR. MARSHALL: I think a motion

12 to refer back will take precedent, would it

13 not, on a motion that has been made and

14 seconded?

15 MR. UMANSKY: Right.

16 MR. MARSHALL: And what -- I

17 think you are not only referring it back to

18 the Media Subcommittee, but you want some

19 additional volunteers to look at it.

20 CHAIR BERLYN: Which is no --

21 MR. MARSHALL: Which is no

22 problem.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: We can always have

2 that for the working group.

3 MR. MARSHALL: Yes, yes.

4 MR. UMANSKY: So I think a

5 motion --

6 CHAIR BERLYN: So we have a

7 motion to --

8 MR. UMANSKY: To refer back --

9 CHAIR BERLYN: -- refer it --

10 MR. UMANSKY: -- for further

11 work.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: -- for further

13 work.

14 MR. UMANSKY: Should do it.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: Some -- okay. Ann

16 made that motion.

17 MR. UMANSKY: I think I'm correct

18 on that.

19 CHAIR BERLYN: Second. Okay.

20 Voting on referring it back to the working

21 group --

22 MR. UMANSKY: Right. No

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 discussion.

2 CHAIR BERLYN: -- for further

3 consideration.

4 MS. HERRERA: Can we refer it

5 back? I mean, because it got raised about --

6 Mitsi Herrera. Because it got raised about

7 the NPRM. Could the working group look at

8 making recommendations to the FCC of issues

9 to include in the NPRM to get comments on?

10 MR. UMANSKY: It's my

11 understanding these recommendations do

12 actually wind up in relevant docketed

13 proceedings, do they not?

14 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, absolutely.

16 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, I think that's

17 already part of the process.

18 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right.

19 MR. MARSHALL: Part of the

20 relevance.

21 CHAIR BERLYN: Let's move

22 forward. This Committee can do whatever it

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 --

2 MR. MARSHALL: Yes, that's

3 already part of the process.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So all

5 those in favor, say aye.

6 ALL: Aye.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Opposed?

8 Abstaining? Anyone abstaining? Nope, okay.

9 No nos, no abstaining. Thank you very much,

10 Barry --

11 MR. UMANSKY: All right.

12 MR. MARSHALL: Well done.

13 CHAIR BERLYN: -- for all your

14 hard work there.

15 MR. UMANSKY: All right.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Next up,

17 Consumer Group, are you ready? Ed?

18 MR. BARTHOLME: This is Ed

19 Bartholme with Call for Action. I actually

20 wanted to get some clarification on something

21 that was just brought up during that group,

22 as it might pertain to our group.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 There was a question raised about

2 whether or not it would be possible if there

3 was further discussion on something to have a

4 vote on something in between this meeting and

5 the next meeting.

6 CHAIR BERLYN: It is possible.

7 We could call a special meeting by conference

8 call, so we have our next meeting in October,

9 but we could call a conference call if we

10 have issues to be considered before then. So

11 absolutely.

12 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.

13 MR. MARSHALL: This is Scott.

14 All the notice requirements in the Federal

15 Register would still apply though and we

16 would have to have an open meeting here at

17 the headquarters and hopefully local people

18 would attend. Then out of towners would call

19 in on the conference line, that's the way it

20 would have to work.

21 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.

22 MR. MARSHALL: Okay.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. BARTHOLME: Seeing as how

2 that is a possibility for another group --

3 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.

4 MR. BARTHOLME: -- I think I

5 would like to jump on the bandwagon, so to

6 speak.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: All right.

8 MR. BARTHOLME: Maybe I'm trying

9 to drive attendance for the special meeting

10 by having more than one topic to discuss.

11 No, we had put together a

12 recommendation that was in everybody's packet

13 today concerning interruption of wireless

14 services. There were some last minute

15 suggestions for adjustment. And, you know,

16 while everybody seems to be coming at it from

17 the same approach, I think that there is some

18 haggling on some finer points just to get

19 everybody exactly on the same page.

20 So I think we would like to take

21 advantage of a little bit more time on this,

22 especially given the fact that Art Neill from

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 UCAN, who was the primary driving force

2 behind this, couldn't actually be here today.

3 So without his input, you know, I want to

4 make sure that we are staying true to his

5 original intent behind this recommendation.

6 So I would like to table what was

7 in your packet today, look forward to an

8 updated draft coming out and hopefully we can

9 move on that at an interim meeting.

10 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. That's

11 fine, Ed. And so that will definitely drive

12 us to a special interim meeting.

13 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: We now have two

15 recommendations to look forward to for that

16 meeting. So we will try and plan that as

17 soon as possible and you and Barry will give

18 us a heads up.

19 MR. BARTHOLME: Yes.

20 CHAIR BERLYN: We also have

21 another issue which I'll be discussing

22 shortly after all of our reports.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 So and you have nothing else?

2 MR. BARTHOLME: No, that's all

3 for today.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you,

5 Ed.

6 MR. BARTHOLME: Thank you.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Mark and Chris,

8 Broadband Working Group? You're going to

9 give us a third issue?

10 MR. DeFALCO: Hi, Mark DeFalco.

11 There is danger in going after these first

12 two groups or these last two groups here, I

13 think, so, no. We have a recommendation to

14 -- I don't know. Does what we gave you,

15 Scott, need to be read in or not?

16 MR. MARSHALL: Well, somebody has

17 -- everyone has it in their packet, so it was

18 distributed in advance.

19 CHAIR BERLYN: Everyone has it.

20 Paul has it.

21 MR. MARSHALL: Unless somebody

22 really has a burning desire --

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. DeFALCO: Okay. It's the

2 document that is listed "Broadband."

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Just read

4 the headline there.

5 MR. DeFALCO: Yes, "Broadband -

6 GPI06-15-12." This has been circulated and I

7 don't think there is any controversy. So

8 this should be a real easy one to hopefully

9 get through.

10 And then just by way of a report

11 on what we discussed at our breakout session,

12 we believe we will have another

13 recommendation for you for the October

14 meeting. Again, I don't think it will be a

15 controversial recommendation, but we will

16 have another recommendation coming for the

17 next meeting.

18 So with that, I think you are

19 ready to maybe vote this one in?

20 MR. MARSHALL: We have to move

21 the recommendation and second it.

22 MR. SCHROEDER: I would move

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 adoption of --

2 MR. MARSHALL: Before we --

3 MR. SCHROEDER: -- the GPII

4 motion.

5 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Paul.

6 MR. DeFALCO: Paul moved.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Anyone second?

8 MR. UMANSKY: Second.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: We have a second.

10 MR. DeFALCO: Who seconded it?

11 MR. SCHROEDER: And I may want to

12 make one comment on it as well.

13 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay, Paul.

14 MR. DeFALCO: Who seconded it,

15 first, please?

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry seconded.

17 MR. DeFALCO: Barry, okay, good.

18 All right. Discussion?

19 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, Paul

20 Schroeder.

21 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, Paul.

22 MR. SCHROEDER: American

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 Foundation for the Blind. I think the GPII

2 is terrific. I do want to suggest adding a

3 sentence at the end that would go something

4 like this.

5 The GPII, though it may foster

6 access, does not, and I was debating between

7 mitigate or effect, the need for

8 implementation of accessibility policies.

9 The reason I raise that is GPII

10 is often talked about in these glowing almost

11 religious terms and I think it is great. I

12 mean, I don't want to minimize it, but I also

13 don't want people to get carried away to

14 believe that this is the solution that ends

15 all need for the hard work that has been done

16 on accessibility policies, because it

17 doesn't.

18 It may work. It should

19 compliment and hopefully foster those, as I

20 said. So I would propose the addition of

21 that sentence, just to make clear that that's

22 our view.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 CHAIR BERLYN: And can you read

2 it again a little more slowly?

3 MR. SCHROEDER: The GPII, though

4 it may foster access, does not mitigate the

5 need for implementation of accessibility

6 policies.

7 CHAIR BERLYN: Does not mitigate

8 the --

9 MR. MARSHALL: Need to implement.

10 MR. SCHROEDER: The need to

11 implement, would be fine, accessibility

12 policies.

13 MR. MARSHALL: Accessibility

14 policies. Okay. Got it.

15 MR. SCHROEDER: I guess I would

16 move that as --

17 MR. MARSHALL: Move the

18 amendment.

19 MR. SCHROEDER: I don't know if I

20 can move that as a friendly-amendment, since

21 I made the motion. I suppose I can.

22 CHAIR BERLYN: Chris and Mark, do

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 you accept that as a friendly-amendment?

2 MR. BAKER: Yes.

3 MR. SCHROEDER: Okay. If they

4 do.

5 CHAIR BERLYN: It's accepted as a

6 friendly-amendment. Sounds good.

7 MR. SCHROEDER: All right. Then

8 we can -- any other discussion?

9 CHAIR BERLYN: May foster, okay.

10 Further discussion? Mitsi?

11 MS. HERRERA: Can I offer a

12 friendly-amendment to the Paul? Could you

13 move that sentence to the second -- to become

14 the second sentence and then add the word,

15 something like nonetheless or nevertheless to

16 start the third sentence?

17 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, I would have

18 no problem with that. Thank you. Good

19 suggestion.

20 CHAIR BERLYN: Chris? Chris?

21 MR. BAKER: Can you hear me?

22 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Now, I can.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MR. BAKER: Now you can. I don't

2 know. I mean, I think it's you need an

3 explanation of what it is before you start

4 saying what it does not do. That would be my

5 only -- I mean, I'm fine with the change. I

6 just wonder if it makes more sense, it's more

7 readable if you talk about what it does than

8 what it doesn't do?

9 MS. HERRERA: I mean, can we make

10 it, however, the GPII does not, whatever you

11 had, mitigate the need for? It just seems

12 odd it says though it may foster access in

13 the middle of it. But it's 3:50 and it's not

14 bad, so if people are fine with it, I'm happy

15 to withdraw my friendly --

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, I think it

17 works either way. The way I'm looking at it,

18 I don't think it really -- it doesn't strike

19 me as difficult, because it's so short.

20 MR. BAKER: Right, right.

21 CHAIR BERLYN: So I think you get

22 the point either way, the way I look at it.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 MS. HERRERA: Then to simplify

2 things, I'll just withdraw my --

3 CHAIR BERLYN: Your friendly --

4 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. That works.

5 MS. HERRERA: I'll withdraw it.

6 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right.

7 So we have a friendly-amendment that has been

8 accepted. We have a motion and a second.

9 Further discussion?

10 Seeing none -- oh, Chris?

11 MR. BAKER: I just wanted to

12 thank Clayton Lewis who sort of came up and

13 brought this idea to our attention for doing

14 it. And I didn't know he would be getting

15 off the Committee, but I want to thank him.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Yes.

17 PARTICIPANT: It would be a great

18 good-bye gift to Clayton.

19 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.

20 PARTICIPANT: A very appropriate

21 one.

22 CHAIR BERLYN: The Clayton Lewis

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 recommendation. Okay. Thank you, Broadband

2 Working Group. Oh, call the question.

3 All those in favor of this

4 recommendation say aye.

5 ALL: Aye.

6 CHAIR BERLYN: Opposed?

7 Abstaining? Excellent.

8 MR. MARSHALL: No abstentions?

9 CHAIR BERLYN: No abstentions.

10 This is a no abstentions day.

11 Okay. Universal Service Group?

12 MS. GARCIA: We really have

13 nothing to report.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Nothing to report.

15 No recommendations this time. Thank you,

16 Cecilia.

17 Okay. That is it for our working

18 group reports.

19 Now, we have another important

20 item that came out of our morning, this

21 morning. Sorry, Rick, I know it's

22 challenging to see each other there.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 We have another item from our

2 morning from our report for -- about the

3 Consumer Complaints process. As you heard

4 this morning, they are working on a reform of

5 the Consumer Complaints process and they are

6 looking to the Consumer Advisory Committee

7 for some help and they laid out a couple of

8 areas where they would like some feedback.

9 So what we would like to do is to

10 setup a Task Force that would help with this

11 process over the next two months to give the

12 FCC some feedback. And hopefully it wouldn't

13 require too many meetings, because we don't

14 want to add to the meetings that are going to

15 be required for this.

16 But the way I see it, we probably

17 need a meeting at the beginning to sort of

18 organize ourselves, find out what exactly we

19 were going to look at and do. And then a

20 meeting after we take a look at what the FCC

21 wants us to do to get together and discuss it

22 and provide some feedback.

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 We also may, as a result of this,

2 want to write up a recommendation to the FCC

3 based on our findings.

4 And the perfect timing for that

5 would be our special meeting, so we would

6 have time. Perhaps the time would work out

7 to do that.

8 So what we want to do is to setup

9 a Task Force. And one of the things that

10 this Task Force would do is to test this new

11 -- test the FCC's Consumer Complaint system.

12 So we would test it each individually, do

13 that on our own and provide feedback and

14 perhaps they would develop some sort of

15 response form that we would be able to use to

16 give feedback on it and also come up with

17 some other ideas and feedback for them.

18 So there is a couple of different

19 things that we would do for them and,

20 generally, help them get on the right path

21 with this Consumer Complaint Reform.

22 So what I would like to do with

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 the Task Force is have people volunteer, who

2 are willing to do this. I think it's a

3 really good opportunity for the CAC to

4 provide direct input into this process, but I

5 want to do it just on a volunteer process.

6 I don't think it will be all that

7 time-consuming. As I mentioned, two

8 meetings. I don't know whether they will be

9 maybe in-person and on the phone. We will

10 see how that works. Two meetings, possibly

11 three, but hopefully no more than two. And

12 then the time that it would take you just to

13 really try out the Consumer Complaint

14 process.

15 So Scott and I will send

16 something around in the next week or so

17 asking for volunteers to serve on this Task

18 Force. And we will try not to make it too

19 huge, but, you know, a good group who are

20 willing to roll up their sleeves and do this

21 with us.

22 So I hope that you will

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 participate. Okay. Did I miss anything?

2 MR. MARSHALL: Comments from the

3 public?

4 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Now, we have

5 comments from the public. Did I miss

6 anything on the complaint?

7 MR. MARSHALL: No, no, I think

8 you got it.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Very good.

10 Finally, are there any members -- anyone from

11 the public who have any comments for the CAC?

12 I didn't get any emails, I don't think,

13 Scott.

14 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. Then a

15 motion to adjourn.

16 CHAIR BERLYN: So again, we are

17 going to meet in October. We will get the

18 exact date out to you as soon as we confirm

19 availability of this meeting room and make

20 sure that we don't have any conflicts with

21 dates.

22 And I think that's it. Any

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 further comments from anyone around the room?

2 MR. MARSHALL: Debbie, did you

3 raise any dates with the group at all?

4 CHAIR BERLYN: I didn't. Do you

5 want me -- did you check the availability for

6 that one date?

7 MR. MARSHALL: Well, let's --

8 could we run by October 19th?

9 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. One date

10 that we are --

11 MR. MARSHALL: And get a quick

12 reaction.

13 CHAIR BERLYN: One day we are

14 looking at is October 19th, which is a

15 Friday. Okay. It doesn't --

16 MR. MARSHALL: Nobody is running

17 out the door screaming.

18 CHAIR BERLYN: Nobody is

19 screaming.

20 MS. KEARNEY: It doesn't work for

21 me.

22 CHAIR BERLYN: People are

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 checking. It doesn't work for Julie.

2 MS. LEECH: That would be tight

3 for me.

4 CHAIR BERLYN: It would be tight

5 for Irene. It's not good for Lise. Okay.

6 We have two. It's not good for you, Ed? Not

7 good for Ed, oh. All right. Now we've got--

8 MR. MARSHALL: Three.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: -- three.

10 MR. MARSHALL: Okay.

11 CHAIR BERLYN: What happened with

12 the 26th?

13 MR. MARSHALL: It's not

14 available. This room is not available.

15 CHAIR BERLYN: The room is not

16 available on the 26th. Well, we will get

17 back to you.

18 MR. MARSHALL: Right.

19 CHAIR BERLYN: It may have to

20 stick with the 19th, but I'll get back to you

21 to see if the date changes. But it will be

22 -- we are hoping to stick with the month of

1 2 NEAL R. GROSS 3 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 5 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701www.nealrgross.com 1 October, so that it is not too far from now.

2 But also look for that special date between

3 now and October for our special meeting.

4 So do I have a motion to adjourn?

5 Oh, I don't know, I got a couple of hands on

6 that. Motion to adjourn. Do I hear a

7 second?

8 PARTICIPANT: Second.

9 CHAIR BERLYN: And all those in

10 favor?

11 ALL: Aye.

12 CHAIR BERLYN: All right.

13 MR. MARSHALL: Thanks, everybody.

14 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks, everyone.

15 (Whereupon, the meeting was

16 concluded at 3:59 p.m.)

17

18

19

20

21

22

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