1 IN THE MATTER OF THE JOINT REVIEW PANEL ("JOINT PANEL") ESTABLISHED TO REVIEW THE SITE C CLEAN ENERGY PROJECT ("PROJECT") PROPOSED BY BRITISH COLUMBIA HYDRO AND POWER AUTHORITY ("BC HYDRO") CANADA ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT AGENCY AND BRITISH COLUMBIA ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT OFFICE _______________________________________ PROCEEDINGS AT HEARING Day 1: Topic-Specific Session Aquatic and Downstream Environment January 10, 2014 Volume 17 Pages 1 to 207 ________________________________________ C o p y ________________________________________ Held at: Sawridge Inn - Ballroom 9510 100 Street Peace River, Alberta Mainland Reporting Services Inc. [email protected] 2 APPEARANCES JOINT REVIEW PANEL: Dr. Harry Swain - Chairman Ms. Jocelyne Beaudet Mr. Jim Mattison Brian Wallace, Esq. (Legal Counsel) THE SECRETARIAT: Courtney Trevis (panel Co-Manager) Brian Murphy (panel Co-Manager) PARTICIPANTS: Craig Godsoe, Esq., BC Hydro (Legal Counsel) Peter Feldberg, Esq., BC Hydro (Legal Counsel) Ms. Bridget Gilbride, BC Hydro (Legal Counsel) REALTIME COURT REPORTING: Mainland Reporting Services, Inc. Nancy Nielsen, RPR, CSR(A), RCR Leanne Kowalyk, OCR AUDIO/SOUND SYSTEM: AVW-TELAV Audio Visual Solutions Alex Barbour. Technical Services Representative. Mainland Reporting Services Inc. [email protected] 3 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS DESCRIPTION PAGE NO. Opening comments and introduction of 6 the Aquatic and Downstream Environment Topic-Specific panel by Mr. Peter Feldberg, BC Hydro legal counsel: BC Hydro panel, topic-specific session: 13 Aquatic and Downstream Environment: Siobhan Jackson. Martin Jasek. Dave Andres. Trevor Proverbs. Renata Kurschner. Amy Pryse-Phillips. Craig Nister. Brent Mossop. Adam Lewis. Gary Ash. Dave Marmorek. Dr. John Smol. Dr. Steve Burges. Dr. Kevin Timoney. Dr. Derald Smith. Celesa Horvath. Bettina Sander Presentation by BC Hydro, by Siobhan 14 Jackson: Presentation by the Athabasca Cree 27 First Nations: Rosanne Kyle (Legal counsel)Megan McConnell (Legal counsel) Doreen Somers Greg Marcel Councillor Scott Flett Elder Charlie Voyageur Elder Rene Bruno Freddie Marcel Joe Marcel Mainland Reporting Services Inc. [email protected] 4 Introduction of the ACFN panel by 29 Ms. Doreen Somers: Presentation by Mr. Greg Marcel: 32 Presentation by Councillor Scott Flett: 57 Presentation by Elder Charles Voyageur: 70 Presentation by Elder Rene Bruno: 84 Presentation by Mr.Frederick Marcel: 89 Presentation by Mr.Joe Marcel: 101 Comments by Ms. Doreen Somers: 108 Presentation by the Mikisew Cree First 136 Nations: Rosanne Kyle Chief Steve Courtoreille Elder George Martin Councillor Terry Martin (Interpreter for Elder George Martin) Terry Marten Elder Larry Marten Mathew Lepine Jocelyn Marten Melody Lepine Presentation by Chief Steve 138 Courtoreille: Presentation by Elder George Martin: 157 Presentation by Elder Larry Marten: 163 Presentation by Mathew Lepine: 168 Presentation by Ms. Jocelyn Marten: 174 Presentation by Ms. Melody Lepine: 191 Closing remarks by Chief Steve 204 Courtoreille: Mainland Reporting Services Inc. [email protected] 5 INDEX OF UNDERTAKINGS DESCRIPTION PAGE NO. There were no undertakings. Mainland Reporting Services Inc. [email protected] 6 1 Friday, January 10, 2014 2 Sawridge Inn - Ballroom 3 Peace River, Alberta 4 5 Day 1: Topic-Specific Session: 6 Aquatic and Downstream Environment 7 8 (Proceedings reconvened at 1:00 p.m.) 9 10 THE CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, can we 11 come to order, please. And we will now be opening 12 the aquatic and downstream environment session of 13 these hearings on Site C. 14 I made my usual fairly extensive remarks this 15 morning about how wonderfully independent we are, 16 about turning off your cell phones, and so on, and 17 I think I will just dispense with them and turn 18 directly to Hydro for opening comments. 19 Mr. Feldberg. 20 21 Opening comments and introduction of the Aquatic and 22 Downstream Environment Topic-Specific panel by 23 Mr. Peter Feldberg, BC Hydro legal counsel: 24 MR. PETER FELDBERG: If I can just -- thank you. 25 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mainland Reporting Services Inc. [email protected] 7 1 I will be very brief. Peter Feldberg for 2 BC Hydro. 3 I just have two things to do: 4 The first is give you and the people in the 5 room a brief rundown of the presentations that we 6 will be making over the next day and a half, and 7 then a slightly more lengthy job of introducing the 8 people in the room to you. This is probably the 9 largest panel I've ever had to introduce, panel of 10 witnesses I've ever had to introduce to anyone, but 11 we were asked to bring all of the experts that we 12 were going to need for this session here, and we've 13 done so. 14 So I'll run through those. 15 The first thing I'll do is provide a bit of a 16 roadmap for the presentations. The first today 17 will deal with downstream fish issues, and with 18 BC Hydro's responses to some issues that have been 19 raised by the Province of Alberta. That's what the 20 presentation will be. 21 Tomorrow will be the substantive presentation 22 on what we describe as the spatial boundaries and 23 the extent of the changes that are due to Site C, 24 so we brought the people to do that, and that 25 presentation will be made in the morning. Mainland Reporting Services Inc. [email protected] 8 1 And then in the afternoon is when we've 2 proposed to present a presentation of BC Hydro's 3 evidence with respect to the PAD and the I suppose 4 the history of regulation on the PAD and the 5 potential effects. 6 With that, I'm going to turn to the 7 relatively daunting talk of introducing you to the 8 panel. 9 In the front row, what we have are the people 10 that largely will deal with the spatial boundaries 11 issues tomorrow and with the presentation today. 12 The panel is going to be managed, 13 quarter-backed, chaired, whatever, by Siobhan 14 Jackson, who is our -- who you have seen before 15 throughout the proceedings, and what we've asked 16 Siobhan to do is when questions come, to assist the 17 panel with making sure the right person of our 18 group is able to give you the answer that you need. 19 To her left is Martin Jasek. Martin has 25 20 years of ice experience. He has a Master of 21 Science and Engineering and 25 years of experience 22 with ice. In addition to the many papers that he's 23 published on the topic, he's also got the practical 24 experience where he 's -- he works with the town of 25 Peace River, as you heard earlier today, on Mainland Reporting Services Inc. [email protected] 9 1 actually managing the ice regime at the town of 2 Peace River, so Martin has both the academic and 3 practical applied experience with respect to ice on 4 the river. 5 To his left is Dave Andres who is also an 6 extremely senior engineer in respect of ice 7 matters, ice management, hydrology. He was the 8 reviewer of the ice work that was done with respect 9 to the spatial boundaries, and Mr. Andres also has 10 long experience with the Peace River in particular 11 and with ice management and ice regimes on the 12 Peace. 13 On his left is Trevor Proverbs who you have 14 seen before as the director of our First Nations 15 engagement. 16 To Siobhan's right is Renata Kurschner, and 17 Renata is our director of generations operations 18 and she's also the coordinator for the Canadian 19 entity on the Columbia River Treaty. Renata is 20 also an engineer and is able to answer questions 21 about BC Hydro operations, flows, management of the 22 system, those sorts of things. Like Martin, she 23 not only has the academic experience of 24 engineering, but she actually has the applied 25 experience of operating our system. Mainland Reporting Services Inc. [email protected] 10 1 Next to Renata is Amy Pryse-Phillips, who 2 you've seen. Also she gave evidence at the 3 atmospheric session. Amy did the work for the 4 surface water regime, the defining of the 5 downstream boundaries. Amy is also an experienced 6 hydrologist, and she's -- her evidence is with 7 respect to that work. 8 Craig Nister, who is immediately to my left, 9 is geomorphologist from Knight Piesold. His 10 contribution to the EIS work is the geomorphology 11 with respect to the -- again, the spatial boundary, 12 the setting of the spatial boundaries for sediments 13 and that. 14 When I turn to the back, the rather daunting 15 back panel there is divided roughly in half, I 16 suppose. Well, the four gentlemen that are 17 furthest away from me to your right are the fish 18 scientists, if I can put it that way. 19 To -- the fourth one in is Brent Mossop, and 20 Brent Mossop is BC Hydro's lead on the fish biology 21 work. 22 To his left is Adam Lewis, who is -- 23 downstream changes is his area. 24 Gary Ash is the fish ecology and baseline 25 conditions. Mainland Reporting Services Inc. [email protected] 11 1 And Dave Marmorek is aquatic productivity. 2 They've all been involved in various aspects 3 of the modelling work that's been done. I won't go 4 through their credentials; it would take too long, 5 but they are all fisheries biologists. 6 Now, I turn to the more elderly portion of 7 the group, which is the four gentlemen that are to 8 the right of Mr.