ST/DPI ORAL HISTORY (02) G979 Yale-UN Oral History ProjectProject Theo-Ben GurirabGurirab Jean Krasno, InterviewerInterviewer November 3, 19991999 New YorkYork Yale-UN Oral History Project Theo-Ben Gurirab Jean Krasllo, Interviewer November 3,1999 New York Index: Namibia Angolan Independence 23 Apartheid 23,24 South Africa 17,20 Black Caucus 19 British Labor Paliy 19 Civil Police (CIVPOL) 35 Colonialism 2 Congress, United States 16 Coordinating Commission for Liberation of Africa 6-8 Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) 29 Frontline States 26-27 Law of the Sea Convention 14-15 Missionaries 2 Namibia Elections 9-10,35 Independence 1,10,14-16,19,24-25,33-34 Organization of African Unity (OAU) 6-9, 19 Organization of American States (OAS) 9 Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) 9 Permanent Members 9 Racism 1 Reagan Administration 20-21 Refugees 14 Resolution 2248 11 Resolution 385 10 Resolution 435 9-10,26-27,35 South African Defense Force 32 South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission 33 South West Afi-ica National Union (SW ANU) 3, 7 South West Africa People's Organization (SWAPO) 3,5-10, 14-22,24,26-35 South West African Territory Force 32,34 UN Council for Namibia 10-15,17 UN Development Programme (UNDP) 14 UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organ ization (UNESCO) 14 UN General Assembly 8,10-12,15,17-18 UN Security Council 9-11, 15, 18 UN Transition Assistance Group (UNTAG) 25,33,35 Western Contact Group on Namibia 10,27 World Court 11-12 I I Yale-UN OralOral HistoryHistory ProjectProject I Theo-Theo-BenBen GuriraGurirabb NovemberNovember 3,3, 19919999 • NewNew YorYorkk • Interviewer:Interviewer: JeanJean KrasnKrasnoo • Jean Krasno: First, President Gurirab, forfor background purposespurposes couldcould youyou pleaseplease explainexplain • where you were born and educated andand whenwhen youyou werewere firstfirst involvedinvolved inin thethe independenceindependence • of Namibia? • Theo-Ben Gurirab: My biographical datadata isis readilyreadily availableavailable andand I'llI'll givegive youyou aa foliofolio • on that, but I was born 23 January 1939, inin aa smallsmall railwayrailway towntown 142142 kilometerskilometers easteast fromfrom Swakopmund, our coastal town.town. Actually, inin mymy languagelanguage thethe namename ofof thethe placeplace isis •11 generally lmown as Usacos. At thethe timetime ofof mymy growinggrowing up,up, itit waswas thethe mainmain railwayrailway conjunction inin thethe whole ofthethe country. AsAs II waswas growinggrowing up,up, II feltfelt thatthat II waswas actuallyactually 11 living in a paradise. Little did II know thatthat II waswas livingliving inin thethe headquartersheadquarters ofof racism.racism. TheThe 11 communities were divided along racialracial lineslines notnot onlyonly betweenbetween thethe whiteswhites andand thethe blacksblacks , but also among thethe different black communities. ButBut itit waswas aa funfun placeplace atat thatthat toto havehave been growing up in.in. That isis where II startedstarted mymy schooling.schooling. UnlikeUnlike aa muchmuch largerlarger numbernumber 11 of my siblings and cousins, II was one ofof thethe fortunatefortunate onesones whowho diddid notnot gogo throughthrough thethe 11 rigors of looking after cattle and doing householdhousehold choreschores thatthat theythey werewere requiredrequired toto dodo inin ­ 11 2 the village and many settlements inin and around UUsacos.sacos. II waswas fortunatefortunate inin thethe sensesense thatthat II had early education at a missionary school where II hadhad mymy primary education.education. I did my secondary education and teacher'steacher's trainingtraining atat OkahandjaOkahandja whichwhich isis aboutabout 7575 kilometers northwest ofofWindhoek, Windhoek, thethe capital city,city, atat aa placeplace calledcalled Agustinium.Agustinium. It'sIt's aa place that linkslinks inin so many different ways thethe historyhistory ofofNamibiaNamibia toto thethe reformationreformation ledled byby Martin Luther inin Germany many centuries earlier. TheThe peoplepeople whowho werewere associatedassociated withwith setting up thatthat educational and trainingtraining facilityfacility inin NamibiaNamibia werewere LutheransLutherans toto beginbegin withwith and some money had been made available toto thosethose missionariesmissionaries toto setset thisthis school.school. ItsIts importance for me, more thanthan thethe cOlmection with thethe churchchurch isis thatthat itit waswas atat thatthat timetime thethe point of convergence of all thethe African students,students, thosethose whowho werewere eligibleeligible oror whowho hadhad anan opportunity one way or another toto attend schoolingschooling andand toto havehave comecome together.together. ItIt waswas notnot the intention of thethe colonial administration nor waswas itit thethe intentionintention ofof thethe schoolschool administration, for thatthat matter; itit was thethe economical situation.situation. ItIt waswas cheapercheaper toto bringbring all of us togethertogether at one place rather thanthan toto setset up schoolsschools andand trainingtraining facilitiesfacilities inin different parts of thethe country. What initiallyinitially we diddid notnot realizerealize ourselvesourselves waswas thatthat byby thisthis anangement, itit was possible toto bring togethertogether at oneone placeplace thethe futurefuture leadersleaders ofNofNanlibiaanlibia from all parts oftheofthe country. It was therethere thatthat mostmost ofofusus met.met. ItIt becamebecame thethe hubhub ofof thethe political consciousness raising inin thethe fullnessfullness of time.time. ItIt waswas thatthat schoolschool andand thethe oneone nextnext to it, not far from there,there, a catholic school at Dobra. To come back toto my early education, itit was therethere thatthat II diddid mymy secondarysecondary educationeducation andand teacher's training.training. II qualified as a teacherteacher inin 19601960 but chosechose toto gogo toto WalvisWalvis Bay,Bay, ourour 11 3 harbor town, to work in fishing factories. They paid a little more than other job •11 oppOltunitiesoppOliunities that were open for blacks. My intention was, while I qualified as a teacher, that I wanted to fmtherfmiher my studies. I had not thought that it would have been possible for • me to have gone abroad, but I had plans that if I had enough money saved that I would 11 find a way to further my studies in South Africa. But politics came into being in the mid­ 50s as far as my own patticipationpatiicipation fromfro111 1957 onwards. Actually, the political • consciousness raising stmtedstmied while I was at Agustinium between the years 1958 and 1960. The African political resistance movements were being formed, including SWAPO • now the ruling pmty,patiy, as well as SWAND and others. From time to time, some of the • initial leaders of that process, that movement, would come discretely at night from Windhoek to the school at1d provide political education classes and gatherings for us. • But that is where it stmted.stmied. • African teachers were not allowed by law to participate as, ifone is generous, as civil • servants in any political activity. But pressure was mounting and we became responsive • to the demand because we were the educated lot among the people and we should also 11 take a lead in the political mobilization of the people, to talk to the people about the 11 problems there were m1d what they could do to demonstrate m1dat1d to protest and so on. That is how my political activities started. I had to be discrete; that was the requirement 11 by law while I was a teacher. But I nevertheless got myself involved in political activities 11 until 1962 when I decided to clandestinely leave the country and found my way newly 11 self-governing Tanganyika which I reached in October 1962. 11 11 ~- ---- - -- - - 4 JK: When you talked about many ofthe leaders of Namibia started gathering at the secondary school where you were, did that include Sam Nujoma and Hage Geingob and some of these people? TG: Not Sam Nujoma, but Hage Geingob and myself, Hidipo Hamutenya. We came at different times. Hage Geingob and I came together. But there were others ahead of us. Not necessarily in the previous generation but I am talking about when the political activism started. There were people who were older than us but the same generation as we were. They were older than us significantly. They would be of Nuj oma's age group. But he was a worker; he was not at that school. Our Deputy Prime Minister, HendrikWitbooi is older than us and was also a teacher there. He got his training there. Eventually, my generation of Namibianleaders in the government and parliament, even in the private sector, come from Agustinium, the majority of them. JK: So, then you left in 1962. Where did you go from there? You went to Tanganyika? TG: Yes, but it was a long, long journey. I left the country under a false pretense. I cooked up a story, which succeeded and helped me to where I am today. The story being that I and my friend who left with me, Jan Bamba Uirab who lives now in Sweden and shuttles between Sweden and Namibia, was that we were actually natives, native meaning nationals - our countries were not independent and we were not citizens - from now Malawi, then Yasaland. The story was that we had been in South West Africa • 5 I O\Jamibia)O'!amibia) under contract, working in the local factories inin Walvis Bay andand thatthat wewe hadhad overstayed the terms of our contract. We were good people; we did not violateviolate anyany lawslaws • but we