WISCONSIN HISTORICAL SOCIETY An Oral History Interview with PATRICK LUCEY Interviewer: .Anita Hecht, Life History Services Recording Date: January 13, 2009 Place: Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Length: 2.0 hours Patrick J. Lucey was raised in La Crosse, Wisconsin, served in the U.S. Army during World War Two, and completed his B.A. degree at the University of Wisconsin in 1946. In 1948, Lucey was elected to the state legislature and in 1950 he ran unsuccessfully for Congress. He then became executive director of Wisconsin's Democratic Party and in 1957 chaired Proxmire's successful campaign for Joseph McCarthy's U.S. Senate seat. Lucey chaired the Wisconsin Democratic Party from 1957 to 1963. In 1964 he became lieutenant governor and in 1970 and 1974 was elected Governor. He co-chaired the Wisconsin delegation to the Democratic National Conventions of 1972 and 1976. In 1977, Lucey resigned the governorship to accept appointment as U.S. ambassador to Mexico. In 1980, he ran as the vice presidential candidate on John Anderson's independent ticket for the U.S. presidency. .After the ticket's defeat by Ronald Reagan, Lucey left public life for the first time in 32 years. During the 1980s he taught political science and worked as a private political consultant. Pa trick L ucey In terview Transcrip t 1 Proxmire Oral His tory Project PROJECT NAME: PROXMIRE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Verbatim Interview Transcript NARRATOR: PATRICK LUCEY INTERVIEWER: Anita Hecht INTERVIEW DATE: January 13, 2009 INTERVIEW LOCATION: Milwaukee, Wisconsin INTERVIEW LENGTH: Approximately 2 Hours KEY: PL Patrick Lucey BP Bill Proxmire TF Tom Fairchild JD Jim Doyle, Sr. SUBJECT INDEX HOUR1 Hour 1/00:00 PL Family History Educational/Work History Hour 1/10:05 Early Political Influences Military Service Hour 1/20:00 Military Service (cont)/Political Influence of Military Hour 1/30:05 Introduction to Politics Assembly Campaign PL's Various Community Positions Status of Early Democratic Party Hour 1/40:05 PL's Congressional Campaign Progressive Party's Influence on Wisconsin Politics Working with BP Hourl/51:10 PL's Congressional Loss/ Subsequent Work with Democratic Party Importance of Defeating McCarthy Patrick Lucey Interview Transcript Proxmire Oral History Project HOUR 2a Hour2a/00:00 PL's Appointment as TF Campaign Manager Hour2a/10:20 JD's Gubernatorial Campaign HOUR 2b Hour2b/00:00 BP's Handshaking PL's Support of BP in Senate Campaign BP's Marriages Hour2b/10:35 PL's Party Chairman Campaign Duties as Party Chairman Importance of Special Election on Wisconsin Democratic Party Hour2b/20:05 PL's Role in Kennedy Election BP's Reluctance to Attend White House Functions PL's Lieutenant Governor/Governor Campaigns Hour2b/29:20 PL's Endorsement of BP's Campaigning Style Criticism of BP for not Bringing Money to State Hour2b/39:50 BP's Legacy HOUR1 Hour 1/00:00 PL Family History, Educational/Work History Patrick Lucey Interview Transcript Proxmire Oral History Project The date is January 13* in the year 2009. My name is Anita Hecht and I have the great pleasure and honor of interviewing Governor Patrick Joseph Lucey on behalf of the William Proxmire Oral History Project for the Wisconsin Historical Society. And we find ourselves in Pat's office here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in the Catholic Home. Milwaukee Catholic Home. Well, thanks for agreeing to participate. I'd like to begin this interview with just a bit of information on you and your background. Can you tell me when and where you were born? t;t I was born in La Crosse, Wisconsin at St. Francis Hospital on March 21 , 1918. And how old are you today, then': I'm ninety years old. Wow. Any secrets to your longevity? Hmm? Are there any secrets to your longevity? Patrick Lucey Interview Transcript A Proxmire Oral History Project Oh, I don't think so. I've been a vegetarian for the last twenty years, maybe that helps. And I do consume a little wine. They say red wine is good for you. Tell me a little bit about your family background and some of the influences in your young life. Where did you grow up? Where were you educated? Well, I grew up in Ferryville, Wisconsin to begin with. And I was there through third grade. And then my dad bought a store in Bagley, Wisconsin. We moved down there. And I went to a public school for fourth and fifth grade. Then my parents decided I should be going to a Catholic school, and there was a Catholic school at Glen Haven, which was about eleven miles away and seven miles by rail. And I used to, with my two oldest sisters, we'd be driven down to Glen Haven in the morning. We'd come home in the afternoon on the train, the Burlington train. And in the wintertime, we stayed with a family by the name of Adrian. And we'd stay five days a week with them. And then in '31,1 graduated from grade school and went to Campion, which was a Jesuit prep school in Prairie du Chien. Was education highly valued in your family? Yes, it definitely was. Both my parents had limited educations. I think my father would argue that he probably had something less than an eighth grade education. He may have been in school for eight years, but he was the oldest male child in a family of nine and he claimed that he only went to school when the ground was frozen because in the spring he had to help plant the crops and in the fall he had to help harvest the crops. He finally did, on the advice of my mother, spend Patrick Lucey interview Transcript 5 Proxmire Oral History Project one winter going to a business college in La Crosse, Wisconsin, so that he learned something about - not accounting, but at least bookkeeping. And I think that was essential to his success in business. Was he a success in business? Hmm? Was he a success in business? Yes, remarkably successful. He had a store in Ferryville. He sold it to a brother of his when he bought the store in Bagley, but that didn't work out. So eventually he had to take it back from his brother. So then he was running stores in Bagley and Ferryville, going back and forth. And the Bagley store started out as a hardware store, but eventually he got involved in farm implements and he was a John Deere dealer. And then gradually he developed a John Deere agency in Ferryville as well. And later in his career, he began to acquire farms and he finally got to the point where he had fourteen farms that he was operating with tenants. Do you think he was an influence on you? Oh, sure. No question about it. In what way? Patrick Lucey Interview Transcript 6 Proxmire Oral History Project Well, I think he demonstrated that, you know, that one could be successful. And I recognized that his disadvantage in not having more education, I think that inspired me to get educated. And it sounds like his work certainly influenced some of the work that you ended up doing as a young adult. Yes, yes. Well, for instance, my real estate business - I was active in politics for a long period of time, including the Fairchild campaign in '52 and Jim Doyle's campaign for Governor in '54 and then the Proxmire special election in '57 and then I was elected Party [Democratic Party] Chairman later that year and served six years as Party chairman. And during all this time, I was also developing the Lucey Realty Service. And I had, probably at the peak, about twenty salesmen, two offices, east and west. We used to advertise very heavily in the paper. We had what we called "The Lucey List" and listed the items that were for sale. And I was the only broker in town that used television. And at that time, television was so primitive that I did most of my commercials live. But I think they paid off. That was a successful business for you as well? Yeah, yeah. Any other family influences? You just mentioned your political resume. Tell me about politics in your family, in your parents or their parents' generation. Patrick Lucey Interview Transcript 7 Proxmire Oral History Project Well, Dad had a mild interest in local politics. And in Bagley, he was elected Village President. And in those days it was the rotten borough system. A Village President, no matter how small the village, was automatically on the county board. And then later when he moved back to Ferryville, he again was elected Village President and again served on the County Board. In this case, it was Crawford County, where Bagley was Grant County. I suppose that had some influence on my interest in politics, although I became interested in national politics very early. I was excited about Al Smith in 1928 when I was only ten years old. I suppose maybe, partly because he was a Democrat, but also because he was Irish and Catholic. Was that a large part of your family's identity was well? Was what? Irish Catholic? Yes, oh, yes, yes. Well, in fact, I'm one of seven and my two brothers both became Jesuits and one of my four sisters became a Dominican nun. She has passed away and one of the brothers is gone. But my other brother is President of Spring Hill College in Mobile, Alabama. I'm the oldest of seven.