PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT GENERAL COMMITTEES Public Bill Committee SANCTIONS AND ANTI-MONEY LAUNDERING BILL [LORDS] First Sitting Tuesday 27 February 2018 (Morning) CONTENTS Programme motion agreed to. Written evidence (Reporting to the House) motion agreed to. CLAUSES 2 TO 5 agreed to. SCHEDULE 1 agreed to. CLAUSES 6 TO 16 agreed to. CLAUSE 17, as amended, under consideration when the Committee adjourned till this day at Two o’clock. PBC (Bill 157) 2017 - 2019 No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the final version of the report should be clearly marked in a copy of the report—not telephoned—and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons, not later than Saturday 3 March 2018 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2018 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1 Public Bill Committee 27 FEBRUARY 2018 Sanctions and Anti-Money 2 Laundering Bill [Lords] The Committee consisted of the following Members: Chairs: DAME CHERYL GILLAN,†STEVE MCCABE † Badenoch, Mrs Kemi (Saffron Walden) (Con) Graham, Luke (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Con) Bardell, Hannah (Livingston) (SNP) † Maclean, Rachel (Redditch) (Con) † Benyon, Richard (Newbury) (Con) † Norris, Alex (Nottingham North) (Lab/Co-op) † Chalk, Alex (Cheltenham) (Con) † Prentis, Victoria (Banbury) (Con) † Courts, Robert (Witney) (Con) † Rowley, Danielle (Midlothian) (Lab) † Dodds, Anneliese (Oxford East) (Lab/Co-op) † Smith, Nick (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab) † Duffield, Rosie (Canterbury) (Lab) Stevens, Jo (Cardiff Central) (Lab) † Duncan, Sir Alan (Minister for Europe and the † Thewliss, Alison (Glasgow Central) (SNP) Americas) † Freer, Mike (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con) Mike Everett, Committee Clerk † Glen, John (Economic Secretary to the Treasury) † Goodman, Helen (Bishop Auckland) (Lab) † attended the Committee 3 Public Bill Committee HOUSE OF COMMONS Sanctions and Anti-Money 4 Laundering Bill [Lords] Other Members remain free to catch my eye to speak on Public Bill Committee all or any of the amendments within that group. A Member may speak more than once in a single debate. Tuesday 27 February 2018 At the end of a debate on a group of amendments, I shall call the Member who moved the leading amendment again. Before they sit down, they will need to indicate if (Morning) they wish to withdraw the amendment or to seek a decision. If any Member wishes to press any other [STEVE MCCABE in the Chair] amendment or new clause in a group to a vote, they need to let me know. I shall work on the assumption Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill that the Minister wishes the Committee to reach a Lords decision on all Government amendments, if any are [ ] tabled. 9.25 am Please note that decisions on amendments do not take place in the order they are debated but in the order The Chair: Before we begin, can I ask everyone to they appear on the amendment paper. In other words, ensure that all electronic devices are turned off or debate proceeds according to the selection and grouping switched to silent mode? I remind Committee members list; decisions are taken when we come to the clause that that Mr Speaker says that teas and coffees are not the amendment affects. I will use my discretion to allowed during sittings. Today, we will consider first the decide whether to allow a separate stand part debate on programme motion on the amendment paper, then a individual clauses and schedules, following the debate motion to enable the reporting of written evidence for on the relevant amendments. I hope that explanation is publication. helpful. The Committee has just agreed a programme motion The Minister for Europe and the Americas (Sir Alan that will be reproduced in the amendment paper for Duncan): I beg to move, tomorrow. The programme motion sets out the order in That— which we have to consider the Bill. (1) the Committee shall (in addition to its first meeting at 9.25 Clauses 2 to 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill. am on Tuesday 27 February) meet— (a) at 2.00 pm on Tuesday 27 February; Schedule 1 (b) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 1 March; (c) at 9.25 am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 6 March; TRADE SANCTIONS (2) the proceedings shall be taken in the following order: Clauses 2 to 5 Schedule 1; Clauses 6 to 18; Clause 1; Clauses 19 to 43; Schedule 2; Clauses 44 to 50; Schedule 3; Clauses 51 to 56; Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): I beg to new Clauses; new Schedules; remaining proceedings on the Bill. move amendment 29, in schedule 1, page 49, leave out (3) the proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) lines 39 and 40. be brought to a conclusion at 5.00 pm on Tuesday 6 March. May I take this opportunity to welcome you to the The Chair: With this it will be convenient to discuss Chair, Mr McCabe, and say what a pleasure it is to serve the following: under your chairmanship? Because the Bill in its principles Amendment 30, in schedule 1, page 50, leave out lines enjoys cross-party support, in the spirit of what I believe 2 and 3. is cross-party agreement I am happy to offer to any Amendment 31, in schedule 1, page 50, leave out member of the Committee the services of my officials, paragraph 33. should they want any briefing or advice on any detail of the Bill. Helen Goodman: May I say what a pleasure it is to see Question put and agreed to. you in the Chair on this bright and sunny, if cold, morning, Mr McCabe? I will not press the amendments, The Chair: The deadline for amendments to be considered as they are simply a vehicle enabling me to ask a during the first two line-by-line sitting days of the Bill question: on trade sanctions, is there a loophole in has passed. The deadline for amendments to be considered relation to the Isle of Man? on the third line-by-line sitting day is the rise of the House on Thursday. Sir Alan Duncan: I thank the hon. Lady for her Resolved, question. It is never unhelpful to be able to clarify a That, subject to the discretion of the Chair, any written evidence point of detail of this sort, and I hope I can now do that received by the Committee shall be reported to the House for to her satisfaction. publication.—(Sir Alan Duncan.) Amendments 29 to 31 would cause the Bill to deviate from the established practice in export controls and The Chair: We now begin line-by-line consideration customs matters where transfers of goods to the Isle of of the Bill. The selection list for today is available in the Man are not classified as exports and imports. The Isle room and on the Bill webpage. This shows how selected of Man is part of a joint customs and indirect tax area amendments have been grouped together for debate. within the United Kingdom, and across all customs Amendments grouped together are generally on the matters goods transferred to the Isle of Man are not same or a similar issue. A Member who has put their said to be exported from the United Kingdom, and name to the lead amendment in a group is called first. goods transferred from the Isle of Man are not said to 5 Public Bill Committee 27 FEBRUARY 2018 Sanctions and Anti-Money 6 Laundering Bill [Lords] be imported into the United Kingdom. That is a long- Amendment 17, in clause 7, page 7, line 36, at end standing customs arrangement and has been reflected insert “, in legislation as well as in custom and practice. unless the ship belongs to a person or the ship provides legitimate The Isle of Man is integrated into HM Revenue and travel to a person, recognised as a refugee under the UN Convention Customs’ CHIEF—customs handling of import and Relating to the Status of Refugees.” export of freight—computer system, which enables it to This amendment would mean that shipping sanctions could not be operate UK customs. The Isle of Man mirrors UK imposed on ships belonging to, or carrying, a recognised refugee. export control and sanctions legislation and makes licensing decisions on exactly the same basis as the UK. Helen Goodman: The amendments are rightly grouped The amendment, if it were carried, would put sanctions together, because they deal with essentially the same policy out of step with export control and customs. issue. Many refugees are coming to Europe at the moment, Only goods covered by sanctions legislation would be mainly by sea, but a small number by aircraft. We want affected by this change and would in essence be subject a system that has firm sanctions on shipping and aircraft to the same export controls twice. If a good were but does not penalise or criminalise refugees. I know the travelling to a sanctioned destination, via the Isle of Minister is as keen as I am to achieve that. Man under a licence, it would require one licence from The numbers are striking: more than 1 million refugees the UK and another from the Isle of Man. The amendment or migrants reached Europe by sea in 2016, and 1 would cause procedural and legal difficulties and increase million arrived in that way last year. Most of them are administrative burdens for business and Her Majesty’s fleeing conflict and political persecution in three places: Government, and all for no observable benefit Syria, Afghanistan and Africa.