Debate Transcript THE INAUGURAL MUNK DEBATE TORONTO, CANADA May 26, 2008 © The Aurea Foundation EXECUTIVE SUMMARY The inaugural Munk Debate took place in Toronto on May 26, 2008. The debate’s resolution was: “Be it resolved the world is a safer place with a Republican in the White House”. The ‘pro’ debaters were Niall Ferguson and Charles Krauthammer. The ‘con’ debaters were Richard Holbrooke and Samantha Power. The capacity audience of 800 people voted 21% in favour of the motion at the debate’s outset and 46% in favour at the debate’s conclusion. The Munk Debates are a signature initiative of the Aurea Foundation, a charitable organization founded in 2006 by Peter and Melanie Munk to support Canadian institutions involved in the study and development of public policy. For more information please visit our website www.munkdebates.com. Audiomunk - Debate Rudyard Griffiths: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. Tonight we launch a project where twice a year we’re going to bring some of the world’s finest minds, some of the world’s brightest thinkers to debate the major issues facing this country and facing the world. We’re extremely fortunate this evening, to have four exceptional debaters who will consider the question: “be it resolved that the world is a safer place with a Republican in the White House.” I would like to remind everyone that tonight would not be possible without the generosity and the support of one foundation that has underwritten this entire project from start to finish and that’s the Aurea Foundation supported by Peter and Melanie Munk. Buildings like the ROM are the lifeblood of this city and to sit here in this lovely renovated gallery with the Crystal outside to do an event like this is, the purpose of the ROM. Equally important is the intellectual capital that we create in Toronto and that we take across the country. Tonight’s broadcast will be broadcast on CBC radio and on Newsworld so that the debate in these four walls will reverberate from coast to coast and beyond our borders. Without further adieu let me introduce our moderator this evening. We’re very fortunate to have someone who knows Canada well. She was born in Bathurst, New Brunswick, went to University at Queens and the University of Toronto and has spent the last quarter century traveling around the world in trouble spots, grilling world leaders, convening events like this; and that is none other than Canada’s Lyse Doucet. Lyse, come on up and kick us off. Lyse Doucet: Thank you. Page 1 of 50 SC June 19, 2008 Audiomunk - Debate Hello and welcome to fellow Canadians, fellow debaters. Welcome to our guests from south of the border and from across the pond. I am indeed from New Brunswick and for those of you who are geographically challenged, that’s east of Toronto and northeast of Bangor, Maine. Whatever you’d like to say about Maritimers, we like to give plain truth and so are all of us gathered here this evening. I have to ask, why are we in a museum? Why are we in this magnificent Royal Ontario Museum? Is it a coincidence that they have this superb exhibition of Charles Darwin and the evolution of the species, the survival of the fittest? Peter and Melanie Munk never do anything by accident. Are they trying to send us a message? Is debating in Canada about to go the way of the Do-Do? Behind all of these screens are lots of extinct species and coincidently this debate comes at a time when the Ipsos Reid polling agency tells us that there’s a very deep public malaise in Canada about the quality and the quantity of public debating. Even worse, this debate comes at a time when south of the border there is an impassioned debate about politics in every form; and I don’t need telling you we Canadians don’t like when the Americans do things better than us, especially when it is something to do with democracy. So let it be resolved tonight, here on this inaugural debate, in this magnificent museum, that this will be the start of a new and more vigorous debate in Canada on all of the issues that matter. How are we going to start? We’re going to start on an issue, that all of us, no matter where we come from, have to be worried about: the world being a safer place. Would the world be a safer place if a Republican was in the White House? Now herein lies another difference between Americans and Canadians. Again, the Ipsos Reid pollsters asked this question in the United States. 52% of Americans said it would be safer with a Republican in the White House. However in Canada, only one in four agreed. When all of you, more than seven hundred strong, acquired your tickets for this inaugural debate we also found out about you and what you think. Only 29% of you agreed that the world would be Page 2 of 50 SC June 19, 2008 Audiomunk - Debate a safer place with a Republican in the White House. 71% disagreed with the motion. Now, you’re a educated and informed crowd, you don’t take your views lightly. You came at this voting decision by force of conviction, but can they change your mind? Can the force of argument and public debate make you think about something different? Remember Charles Darwin and those orchids. Orchids weren’t just beautiful on their own. They developed with a cross pollination of insects. Tonight we’re going to mix ideas up and see whether we get a better survival of the species. So, as the American military says, listen up we have a plan. For the next two hours, we have four of the leading thinkers and doers from the United States. We’ll give them each seven minutes to provide their arguments and to try to convince us of their case. After that, it’s time for all of us to go on the offensive. I will lead the charge with a cross-examination and then all of you have a chance to put in a question. After that, our four speakers will get one last chance to convince you that you’re absolutely wrong. Then you’ll get a chance to vote again. That’s the magic of it. Can the force of ideas change something here in this room? Please join me in welcoming our speakers. First of all, against the motion, Ambassador Richard Holbrooke. Ambassador Holbrooke has been America’s Mr. Fix-It for a long time. The New York Times hailed him as a man who is a master of missions impossible. Between ‘94 and ‘96 he was the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Canadians Affairs. In 1995, he turned his attention to the Balkans and he became the Chief Architect of the Dayton Peace Accords. He served everywhere from Vietnam to the United Nations, where he was part of Bill Clinton’s administration and now an advisor to Hillary Clinton. Also against the motion is Samantha Power. Samantha Power is a leading human rights scholar, she’s a Pulitzer Prize winning author and a Harvard Scholar. Unlike Richard she doesn’t give very much advice to Hillary Page 3 of 50 SC June 19, 2008 Audiomunk - Debate Clinton, in fact she thinks she’s a bit of a monster, now she does regret saying that so she resigned from Barack Obama’s campaign team, but it doesn’t mean she won’t be back there again because she’s got impeccable democratic credentials. For the motion, and from across the pond, Niall Ferguson: British historian, Harvard Scholar, and leading columnist. Time Magazine calls him one of the top 100 thinkers of our time. He’s also a leading supporter and special advisor on foreign policy to John McCain. And last but not least, we have Charles Krauthammer. Now as we saw from that voting, the camp that is for the motion has a really tough hill to climb. Charles Krauthammer is their secret weapon because in fact he grew up in Montreal. He’s an honorary Canadian, and on top of that he’s a psychiatrist. Since he moved back over to the United States he has become one of the most influential writers. He’s also a Pulitzer Prize winner and syndicated columnist for the Washington Post. For the last two decades he’s been influencing policy makers in the United States, but can he influence you? Join me in welcoming our four great debaters for the evening and welcome all of you too. Now to the arguments: Both sides of the argument would possibly agree that there is no other President and Commander-in-Chief who will take over in the White House at such a difficult time. There’s a challenge to restore American respect, American moral legitimacy, to win over friends and decide how to deal with foes. So please, first for the motion, Niall Ferguson. Niall Ferguson: Well, thank you very much Lyse, and thank you, ladies and gentlemen. As all Scotsmen have Canadian relatives, I knew entirely what to expect when I came here this evening. My uncle, aunt, and cousins warned me that trying to defend the Republican party in Ontario was a suicide mission straight out of the Pacific War. Page 4 of 50 SC June 19, 2008 Audiomunk - Debate However, it seems to me that there is a case to be made for this motion.