HOUSE OF LORDS HOUSE OF COMMONS Joint Committee on the Draft Constitutional Renewal Bill Session 2007–08 Draft Constitutional Renewal Bill Volume II: Evidence Ordered to be printed 22 July 2008 and published 12 August 2008 Published by the Authority of the House of Lords London : The Stationery Office Limited £price HL Paper 166-II HC Paper 551-II CONTENTS ORAL EVIDENCE Page Professor Vernon Bogdanor CBE FBA, University of Oxford, Professor Stuart Weir, Democratic Audit, University of Essex and Mr Peter Riddell, Chief Political Commentator, The Times Written evidence, Democratic Audit (Ev 04) 1 Oral evidence, 13 May 2008 19 Ms Elizabeth Wilmshurst, Associate Fellow, Chatham House, Professor Stephen Haines, University of London and Professor Adam Tomkins, University of Glasgow Written evidence, Professor Adam Tomkins (Ev 01) 27 Oral evidence, 13 May 2008 32 Admiral Lord Boyce, Field Marshal Lord Bramall and Marshall of the Royal Air Force Lord Craig of Radley Oral evidence, 14 May 2008 38 Supplementary written evidence, Lord Bramall (Ev 64) 47 Professor Robert Hazell CBE, Constitution Unit, University College London Written evidence, Constitution Unit (Ev 07) 49 Oral evidence, 14 May 2008 56 Bar Council and Law Society of England and Wales Written evidence, Bar Council (Ev 55) 63 Written evidence, Law Society of England and Wales (Ev 42) 71 Oral evidence, 20 May 2008 76 Ms Frances Gibb, Legal Editor, The Times and Mr Joshua Rozenberg, Legal Editor, Daily Telegraph Oral evidence, 20 May 2008 81 Mr Sebastian Payne, University of Kent, Mr Peter Facey, Unlock Democracy and Mr Michael Hammer, One World Trust Written evidence, One World Trust (Ev 03) 89 Oral evidence, 21 May 2008 93 Supplementary evidence, Unlock Democracy (Ev 58) 103 Rt Hon the Lord Falconer of Thoroton QC Oral evidence, 21 May 2008 105 Liberty, Bindmans Solicitors, Countryside Alliance and Mr Milan Rai Written evidence, Countryside Alliance (Ev 13) 115 Oral evidence, 3 June 2008 119 Supplementary written evidence, Countryside Alliance (Ev 28) 133 Judicial Appointments Commission Written evidence, Judicial Appointments Commission (Ev 52) 135 Oral evidence, 4 June 2008 142 Metropolitan Police, Westminster City Council and Greater London Authority Written evidence, Mayor of London (Ev 14) 148 Oral evidence, 4 June 2008 150 Supplementary written evidence, Metropolitan Police (Ev 61) 165 Supplementary written evidence, Mayor of London (Ev 14a) 167 First Division Association (FDA) and Council of Civil Service Unions/Public and Commercial Services Union Written evidence, First Division Association (FDA) (Ev 21) 168 Written evidence, Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS) and Prospect (Ev 25) 172 Oral evidence, 10 June 2008 176 Sir Christopher Kelly KCB , Chair, Committee on Standards in Public Life, Sir Christopher Foster, Chairman and Sir Richard Mottram GCB, Better Government Initiative Written evidence, Committee on Standards in Public Life 188 Written evidence, Better Government Initiative (Ev 19) 191 Oral evidence, 10 June 2008 193 Lord Wilson of Dinton, Lord Turnbull, and Professor Peter Hennessy, University of London Oral evidence, 11 June 2008 199 Supplementary written evidence, Lord Dinton (Ev 60) 209 Supplementary written evidence, Lord Tunrbull (Ev 59) 210 Clerk of the House of Commons, Clerk of the Parliaments, Black Rod, and Serjeant at Arms Written evidence, Clerk of the House of Commons (Ev 02) 211 Written evidence, Clerk of the Parliaments (Ev 12) 213 Oral evidence, 11 June 2008 214 Supplementary written evidence, Clerk of the House of Commons and Serjeant at Arms (Ev 02a) 221 Supplementary written evidence, Clerk of the House of Commons and Clerk of the Parliaments (Ev 65) 224 Rt Hon Tony McNulty MP, Minister of State, Home Office Written evidence, Home Office (Ev 57) 230 Oral evidence, 17 June 2008 236 Supplementary written evidence, Minister of State (Ev 79) 243 Further supplementary written evidence, Minister of State (Ev 80) 245 Ms Janet Paraskeva, First Civil Service Commissioner, and Sir Gus O’Donnell KCB, Cabinet Secretary and Head of the Home Civil Service Written evidence, Civil Service Commissioners (Ev 50) 246 Oral evidence, 17 June 2008 250 Rt Hon the Lord Lyell of Markyate, Rt Hon the Lord Morris of Aberavon and Rt Hon the Lord Mayhew of Twysden Written evidence, Lord Lyell of Markyate, Lord Morris of Aberavon and Lord Mayhew of Twysden (Ev 40) 261 Oral evidence, 18 June 2008 263 Supplementary written evidence, Lord Morris of Aberavon (Ev 68) 271 Supplementary written evidence, Lord Mayhew of Twsden (Ev 67) 272 Lord Carlile of Berriew, and Professor Jeremy Horder, Criminal Commissioner, Law Commission Oral evidence 18 June 2008 273 Supplementary written evidence, Jeremy Horder, Law Commission (Ev 63) 278 Attorney General, Public Prosecutions, Serious Fraud Office and Revenue and Customs Prosecutions Office Written evidence, Attorney General (Ev 72) 282 Supplementary written evidence, Attorney General (Ev 72a) 287 Oral evidence, 24 June 2008 289 Further supplementary written evidence, Attorney General (Ev 74) 298 Further supplementary written evidence, Attorney General (Ev 76) 299 Supplementary written evidence, Revenue and Customs Prosecutions Office (Ev 69) 302 Lord Goldsmith Oral evidence, 24 June 2008 302 Supplementary written evidence, Lord Goldsmith (Ev 77) 309 Mr Graham Allen MP Written evidence, Mr Graham Allen MP (Ev 17) 311 Oral evidence, 25 June 2008 315 Rt Hon Jack Staw MP, Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice and Mr Michael Wills, Minister of State, Ministry of Justice Written evidence, Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Ev 73) 321 Oral evidence, 1 July 2008 322 WRITTEN EVIDENCE Page Anthony Aust (Ev 16) 338 Peter C Beauchamp (Ev 11) 339 Sir Franklin Berman (Ev 34) 340 M J Bowman (Ev 41) 341 Sir John Brigstocke (Ev 35) 344 Lord Butler of Brockwell (Ev15) 346 Campaign Against Criminalising Communities (Ev 37) 346 Campaign to Make Wars History (Ev 53) 348 R D Cramond (Ev 24) 353 Professor Eileen Denza (Ev 51) 356 Professor David Feldman (Ev 66) 357 Maria B T Gallasteguz (Ev 49) 363 Global Witness (Ev 39) 364 Lord Goodhart (Ev 05) 366 Lord Guthrie (Ev 33) 367 Dennis Harrison (Ev 48) 368 House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee (Ev 75) 371 House of Lords Constitution Committee (Ev 71) 372 House of Lords Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee (Ev 70) 375 ILEX (Ev 54) 376 Joint Committee on Human Rights (Ev 78) 380 Justice (Ev 45) 381 Law Society of Scotland (Ev 30) 384 Local Government Association (Ev 27) 386 Local Government Information (Ev 26) 388 Lord Chief Justice (Ev 56) 391 Lord Mackay of Clashfern (Ev 47) 395 Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer (Ev 23) 396 Joe Parker (Ev 31) 400 David Pybus (Ev 29) 401 Mohammad Abdul Qavi (Ev 43) 401 Kiron Reid (Ev 22) 402 Mark Ryan (Ev 36) 405 Emma Sangster (Ev 46) 407 David H Smith (Ev 09) 409 Gabriel John Spence (Ev 08) 412 Peter Steadman (Ev 06) 413 The Corner House (Ev 10 and Ev 38) 420 Don Touhig MP (Ev 44) 431 UK Parliamentary Ombudsman (Ev 32) 431 Sir Michael Wood (Ev 18) 433 Derek Wyatt MP (Ev 62) 436 The following paper received by the Joint Committee has not been printed but can be inspected in the House of Lords Record Office (020 7219 2333), e-mail [email protected]: Dr Julian Lewis MP: Response to the Government’s consultation on managing protest around Parliament. NOTE: The Report of the Committee is published in Volume I, HL Paper No. 166- I, HC 551-I The Evidence of the Committee is published in Volume II, HL Paper No. 166-II, HC 551-II (published 12 August 2008) Processed: 07-08-2008 19:01:31 Page Layout: LOENEW[ex 1] PPSysB Job: 404620 Unit: PAG1 Minutes of Evidence TAKEN BEFORE THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE DRAFT CONSTITUTIONAL RENEWAL BILL TUESDAY 13 MAY 2008 Michael Jabez Foster, in the Chair Present Armstrong of Ilminster, L Mr Christopher Chope Campbell of Alloway, L Martin Linton Gibson of Market Rasen, B Fiona Mactaggart Hart of Chilton, L Emily Thornberry Maclennan of Rogart, L Sir George Young Norton of Louth, L Tyler, L Williamson of Horton, L Memorandum by Democratic Audit (Ev 04) Introduction 1. The government’s green paper, The Governance of Britain (Cm 7170) in July 2007 proclaimed the ambitious goal of “reinvigorating our democracy” through a variety of constitutional and political reforms that set out to achieve a “new constitutional settlement—a settlement that entrusts Parliament and the people with more power”. The green paper set out proposals that were presented as being intended to answer “two fundamental questions: how should we hold power accountable, and how should we uphold and enhance the rights and responsibilities of the citizen?” 2. The most tangible product of this process is the Draft Constitutional Renewal Bill under examination by your committee and the accompanying Constitutional Renewal white paper. The draft Bill represents the government’s answer to the first of fundamental questions that it posed. Answers to the second question remain at a formative stage. 3. In the following paper we have pulled together, rather hastily, a briefing on and response to the Ministry of Justice white paper The Governance of Britain—Constitutional Renewal (Cm 7342-I) and the Draft Constitutional Renewal Bill (Cm 7342 III), both published in March 2008. In order to provide an overview of the draft Bill’s place in the eVort to re-balance power between the executive and Parliament and improve the government’s accountability to Parliament, we have drawn on matters beyond the contents of the Bill, as well as examining them closely. We have assumed that one of the values of pre-legislative scrutiny is that it need not be confined by the rules of the traditional legislative process.