INTERVIEWS William Whitaker interviewed by Ana Tostões In February 2018, Ana Tostões interviewed William Whitaker, curator and collections manager of the AT Of course! But when you are organizing, Architectural Archives of the University of Pennsylvania School of Design, where the Louis I. Kahn Collection you are studying, and then you start your pro- is hosted, in order to debate the importance of documentation for the preservation of Kahn’s legacy. cess of interpretation. William Whitaker was curatorial consultant of the exhibition Louis Kahn: The Power of Architecture (Vitra WW Sure. It is fundamentally a process to Design Museum, 2012) and is the co-author of The Houses of Louis I. Kahn (with George Marcus, 2013), the first comprehensive publication on the architect’s house designs. The management of the Louis I. Kahn gain intellectual control of a group of items of Collection has been having a fundamental role, not only in the documentation and interpretation of Kahn’s historical significance. The discipline of that life and work, but also in the success of the contemporary rehabilitation projects undertaken in his buildings. is incredibly important so that others can get to it too. But implicit to that is the sense of Ana Tostoes We are in the Kroiz Gallery records and correspondence from his day- why you are saving this material, why it is of at the Architectural Archives of the University to-day practice to the over 36,000 drawings value, why it matters, and how it can engage of Pennsylvania. These archives are the driving covering the full development of many of his with audiences today. force for supporting the preservation of the greatest works, but not all of them. Somehow, AT And you connect that with a kind of social unique legacy of Louis I. Kahn. Bill, you have not everything was saved or preserved. It or educational mission too. done fantastic work here, not just in the conser- has been said that Kahn did not realize or WW Yes, because we are talking about vation of the papers in literal terms, but also in appreciate the value of his drawings until the artist’s imagination. This is what we have connecting people. This is an incredible positive Arthur Drexler put them on view at MoMA as evidence of a vital thinking process that sign for the future. in 1961. Other records were kept by clients. occurred, that played out and resulted in William Whitaker Yes. This is an Fortunately, many of his clients have seen buildings like the Kimbell Art Museum. To archive that is valuable beyond the academy the value in donating their holdings to the have the chance of understanding even a and museum. It is integral with maintaining Architectural Archives. fragment of what happened is inspiring and built heritage and to understanding Kahn’s AT In your daily work, you are in contact with an incredible learning tool. ideas and intent. And that’s inspiring. It’s ex- people close to Kahn’s work, collecting stories AT To be able to understand how the vaults citing to understand the level of thinking that and other elements necessary to understand and of the Kimbell were done, and how that light went into his work and, later, to witnessing enrich the Archives. was achieved, might be something absolutely WW the thoughtful engagement of those respon- Yes, that’s true. We started with the extraordinary. 58 – 2018/1 sible for conserving these buildings with his idea of beginning a collection – that will, ob- WW Or simply to understand the way legacy. We’ve seen that demonstrated at viously, never be truly complete – and then that nature reveals itself in a building. places like the Yale Center for British Art, the seeking out the many layers that can add Archives can reveal insights into this in Salk Institute for Biological Studies, and the meaning and depth to the collection. The net- wonderful ways. Architects get paid to do a docomomo Toby and Steven Korman House, among oth- work of people is fundamental: there are col- particular commission, but they also do a lot ers. Great art demands a high level of thinking laborators who run projects (and payroll too) of things they don’t get paid for: they collect and understanding for its endurance. We can who have material in the personal possession; books, they travel and record their experi- testify to that and recognize our role in it. there are those who were working out in the ences in sketchbooks and journals, they take AT Congratulations for that, Bill. The Archives field overseeing construction (and who bring photographs, they “waste” their time and have quite a diverse collection, is that correct? you the story of living in Bangladesh while money in many different ways and places, WW Absolutely. We are more than the sorting out how to actually build the Capital because they can’t stop themselves from Louis I. Kahn Collection. The Architectural complex at Dhaka and their interactions with doing so! This is something at the very heart Archives were established in 1978 and quick- that country’s culture and climate); there are of creativity, a glimpse into what the artist Interviews ly grew to more than 100 collections. Our the collaborators outside the office, specifi- needs to fuel the spirit. Take for example the holdings range from models and drawings – cally engineers or landscape architects, who architect’s notebooks. It is common to find some tiny and others as large as a trestle table worked as consultants and played important a name and address written in the front of – to papers, photographs, material samples roles (such as August Komendant or Harriet the book along with the line, “if found please and fragments, as well as film and video. One Pattison. Both worked closely with Kahn on return to” – a kind of confirmation that it is a of our largest objects is an ornamental screen several major works and donated their col- thing of value. Kahn, however, never put his designed by Robert Venturi for the Philadel- lections to the Archives). We recognized that name in his sketchbooks. He misplaced some phia Museum of Art. Today, our collections the collections of clients are important. The and “borrowed” volumes from others (their include the vast archive of Venturi and houses are a central part of Kahn’s built leg- handwriting sometimes mistaken by some Denise Scott Brown, and a range of over 400 acy in the Philadelphia region. Clients have others dating from the 17th century to the knowledge and insight into Kahn’s working present. We are particularly proud of the process and, because of the relatively small many collections that add depth to our core scale of a house commission, allow a closer holdings; those of Kahn’s in particular. understanding of his creativity. AT So, when you acquired the Kahn collec- AT So, your work at the Archives is not just to tion in 1978, we may say that the Archives got organize things, it is done through creative and more value in a way, because it was a “round interpretive research. Your book, The Houses of collection”, including drawings, writings, and all Louis Kahn (with George Marcus, Yale, 2013), kinds of different sources. seems to me to act as the fulfillment of your re- WW It is a “rounded” archive in the sense search and contact with Kahn’s clients, staff, etc. that it contains everything that was in Kahn’s WW The organizing part is incredibly 01 Louis Kahn, Korman House, Whitemarsh office at the time he died – from business important. Township, Pennsylvania, USA, 1971–1973. © Ana Tostões, 2018. 63 for Kahn’s). He tore pages out, he sent these to the letters exchanged between Kahn and one drawing, discussing a sketch, and how we pages as letters or notes to others. They are a Barragan, between Kahn and Larry Halprin discovered more things each year. This is an total disaster, with no sense of continuity. The (who was also consulted at the time – and important part of the education of an architect. only reason why Kahn carried a notebook whose collection is among those held by the I’ve always admired the last sentence of the was to have a piece of paper handy, some- archives), we can speak to two men who docomomo constitution because it is about thing to draw out his ideas on. But once he translated over the phone or on site in La learning from good examples, for the sake of had done so, once the realization was fixed, Jolla, and we can pour over drawings (both doing better architecture. he moved on. He didn’t need to return. Every at Penn and in the Barragan Collection in WW I couldn’t agree more. We have creative architect is different and that is one Basel). To reconstruct the story takes many, many students who engage with the col- of the lessons you can take from an archive. many layers of information, not only from lections through tours and talks (over 1,000 AT Through the material you have in the primary source materials, which are essential last year). Sometimes they are intimidated archive, the collaboration with Luis Barragan and as a framework, but, as we are dealing with by the real thing. They don’t know if they Kahn’s references to the monastery of Assisi, are the recent past, we can also learn from the can engage with it. So, one of our key roles you able to tell us how, in the Salk Institute, he actors and participants who were part of the is opening up this heritage, to help students proceeded to arrive at the decision of have the action and provide us a range of viewpoints among others to understand that it is acces- courtyard open to the sea and sky, with no trees? into a defining moment.