Transcript of BBC2, “How Euro Are You?” 3rd October 2005, 9pm ANDREW MARR: If the world was a wine-bar, perhaps there’d be no problem. Surrounding me in the heart of London are some of the finest wines that Europe produces, and we drink that stuff by the gallon, we love it. We love their food. We buy houses in their countries. Last year, an astonishing 50m visits were made by Britons to the continent of Europe. 350,000 of us work there all the time. If that stuff made us good Europeans, we’d be good Europeans. But the world is not a wine-bar, and it’s run by politics. And politically we are at best very ambiguous about Europe. A lot of us loathe the European Union. So how Euro are you? Perhaps you’re about to find out. (opening titles) AM: Welcome. All day, at the heart of Europe, there has been a ferocious argument raging about whether Turkey should now join the Union or not, and we’ve just heard tonight that those talks are going to go ahead. And in the end it’s an argument about identity: who’s who? And we in Britain know all about that. So never mind Turkey, how Euro are we? Now, with us are people from across the country and the only thing that unites them all is that they can’t quite work out what they feel about Europe. DARA O'BRIAIN: Is Britain in the end just instinctively closer to the Americans, or is it that you like Europe but find Brussels infuriating? On tonight’s show, we’ll be setting you a test, one of those ‘there are no wrong answers’ type of tests, to clarify where you really stand on this debate. What all our ‘don’t knows’ around me here really feel once you strip out all the baggage, all the ‘Brussels wants to straighten our bananas’, ‘they leave their towels out in the morning’, ‘I got bitten by a Frenchman as a child’ stuff. (laughter from audience) Where do people really stand on the issues. AM: To help them, we’ve got a panel who hold very different points of view on this subject. Now, quite deliberately – because you hear politicians banging out about all of this all the time – it is going to be a politician free zone. We have also travelled across the channel to test out opinion there. ELIZABETH GUIGOU: Make your decision and make it in favour of Europe. EVAN DAVIES: I’m Evan Davies, and I’ve come to the northern tip of Germany to see if we’re British or maybe more American. DO: You may be wondering how we’re going to do this. Well, the polling organisation ICM has worked with us to come up with a series of questions. Depending on how you answer they can place you in one of these four groups. First up are Mr and Mrs Chiantishire. This group are euro enthusiasts. They like all things European from going on holiday to sun dried tomatoes and good red wine. And maybe you’re Mr and Ms Dover Straits? This group are happy with Europe but want things to stay as they are. As far as they are concerned the European ideal is all very well but now it has gone far enough. Next up: Mr and Ms Costa Del Sol. This group are the eurosceptics. They feel we have gone too far already. They want Europe for trading purposes and holidays but nothing more. And finally, Mr and Mrs Little Islanders. This group are the europhobes. They want Britain to pull out of Europe. They think that it is a waste of money and that we are better off on our own. Maybe you think you already know which of these is closest to you, but take the test later and you’ll find out for sure. AM: We’re going to keep an eye on everyone here among the ‘don’t knows’ who are taking the second ‘How Euro are You’ test, and we’ll also bring you a snapshot of how different parts of the country respond. If you’re playing from home, you will be able to phone or text in your answers, and we will tell you exactly how to do that in a minute. Or you can go online (gives website details). Now, just before we get going, to see how you identify with these groups of people, and what Euro means to them, let’s have a little look at some different views. 1 LOWRI TURNER: I’m very European, I don’t really understand the panic about us being part of Europe. PAUL MORLEY: I think I’d feel more European if I spoke a couple of European languages. EVE POLLARD: I feel more British. I don’t feel European at all really. In fact, I feel English. DAVID GRANT: Everybody within the European Community has a national identity, and I think that Europe becomes weaker when people begin to lose that. JANEY LEE GRACE: I don’t think that we’ve lost some of our national identity by being in Europe yet. GERMAINE GREER: I don’t actually understand why the British are so fussed about their identity. They’re very confused about what it is. People are Cornish sometimes and English other times, and British other times. All of this is perfectly normal, but they also happen to be European. DR RAJ PERSAUD: I think that there are many great things about being part of Europe, it has much to offer if Britain wants to continue playing on the world stage. JOHN MCRIRICK: The best thing about being part of Europe is the 22 miles of the good old English Channel. EVE POLLARD: Europe seems to me a bit like a sort of very fancy club or a gym, you’re flattered that they want you to be a member, but are you really getting enough out of the facilities? NISHMA PATEL Director, Teletext I think Britain’s involvement in Europe, from my understanding, does actually go far enough for a country of its size and strength. DR RAJ PERSAUD: I think there inevitably will be a United States of Europe, that’s very simply because there is a United States of America. RUTH LEA: Director, Institute for Policy Studies: I think you could argue that Britain is already part of the United States of Europe, because there are so many aspects of statehood already there SANDIE NAIRNE Director, National Portrait Gallery: Well, it’s crucial that we should be part of Europe, the way in which we’re part of it will always be slightly critical, slightly to one side, slightly transatlantic. And therefore the idea of a United States will never work for this country. AM: Well, whatever else we’ve got, we have not got a national consensus, as you can see. Let’s bring in our panel to start with. Peter Hitchens, it may be an unlikely, or possibly unfamiliar thought, but just suppose Tony Blair picks up the phone this evening and he says, ‘Peter, Peter, what shall I do about Europe?’ what do you tell him. PETER HITCHENS: Leave. AM: Leave? PH: Amicably, politely and quickly. Leave. AM: As soon as he could? PH: As soon as he could. 2 AM: As I said, it’s possible that he won’t do that – either pick up the phone, or leave. So Stephen Wall, you’re in a slightly different position in that you were advising Tony Blair, I don’t know if he took your advice, I don’t know if he’d pick up the phone if you called him yourself now, but what would your advice be? STEPHEN WALL: Well my advice would be to stick with the policy he’s got, which is to recognise that Britain’s interests, national interest is best served by being a prominent member of the European Union. Most of our interests, be it peace and security, trade, aid, climate change, all those things, we do better by having allies which are the great democracies of Europe, twenty-four of them. AM: But the country is not very enthusiastic about that message. What’s he not doing that he should be doing? SW: Well I think what we’ve not done, and what successive governments have not done is actually explain to people what the nature of the project is. One of the advantages if we had had a referendum would have been that we would have been required to do just that, and people would have had a chance to make up their minds. AM: Tanni Grey-Thompson, you’re not one of the advisors around this, you’re actually a competitor, you’re an international athlete, you go over to Europe, you wear a Union Jack on your shirt when you’re competing, is that the absolutely fundamental aspect of your identity? TANNI GREY-THOMPSON: It’s a big part of it, but I’m also Welsh and British and I live in North Yorkshire, and I think one of the issues we have is with young people disengaged from politics. I think a lot of people don’t understand our national identity, people don’t understand if we’re Welsh, we’re English, we’re Scottish. A lot of people don’t understand the difference between England and the United Kingdom and Great Britain – and I think until we can sort that out, I think we’re going to have a difficult time.