GGGEEEOOORRRGGGIIIAAANNN SSSEEECCCUUURRRIIITTTYYY AAANNNAAALLLYYYSSSIIISSS CCCEEENNNTTTEEERRR INTERVIEW June, 2007 H.E. Donald MacLaren of MacLaren, Ambassador of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to Georgia The Georgian Security Analysis Center interviewed H.E. Donald MacLaren of MacLaren, Ambassador of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to Georgia, who will assume new duties at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office this summer. The Ambassador talked about Georgian-UK diplomatic relations, overall UK support to Georgia, particularly in the security sector, the Georgian reform agenda, UK interests in Georgia and the importance of energy security. By Salome Salukvadze GSAC: Please tell us generally about UK-Georgia relations during your tenure here. MacLaren: Britain has had a relationship with Georgia going back a very long time. Our first representative, Sir Oliver Wardrop, served here at the beginning of the last century. But in more recent times, I am Britain’s fourth ambassador, and what we have seen over the period is the gradual intensification of the relationship—there has been more substance as each year goes by. I am Britain’s fourth Times change. The first ambassador here, in the 1990s, ambassador, and what we have was working in the immediate aftermath of the civil war. seen over the period is the That in itself was intense work. Fortunately, today we gradual intensification of the are no longer engaged with the aftermath of destruction, relationship—there has been but are working with the Georgians on helping to more substance as each year implement a dynamic reform agenda. So, my three years goes by. here have been exciting. I think this is a constructive time in the history of this country, and I am pleased to be part of that, along with my colleagues from the European Union and indeed from other embassies. I think that British-Georgian relations have always been good, very friendly, but of course, foreign policy goes beyond simply nice bilateral relations, particularly nowadays when we live in a very competitive age. As for where we stand now with Georgia, I think both countries understand each other pretty well—Georgians know that we are supportive of their reform agenda, with all this country tries to achieve. They also know that we are partly critical—if we think something could be done differently, we are happy to say so, instead of being silent. That is true for the whole range of issues—security, civil society, rule of law, competition policy in industrial and commercial relationships. Ours is the sort of relationship in which the Georgians will listen to our advice—they may not always implement it, after all, they are in charge. For these reasons, I think we have a healthy intellectual relationship, not just in pleasant bilateral terms. Georgian Security Analysis Center ♦ 3a Chitadze Street, Tbilisi, 0108, Georgia ♦ Tel.: +995 95 567 513 Fax: +995 32 98 52 65, E-mail: [email protected], www.gfsis.org/gsac In the three years I have been here, we have been very pleased that we have had some senior Georgian visitors coming to London—the President has visited twice, in July 2004 and most recently in April of this year. The late Prime Minister Zurab Zhvania visited towards the end of 2004, Prime Minister Noghaideli visited in 2006. We have also had a range of Georgian ministers going to London. And it has not been just one way. We have also had Going briefly to the visit of the ministers coming from Britain, for example the President Saakashvili, I think this Minister of State for Europe, Geoff Hoon, who used to was particularly significant because be Secretary of State for Defence. He has taken a he and British Prime Minister Tony particularly close interest in Georgia. He is looking at Blair agreed that when you strike all Georgia from two angles—from the security and the details away, it really comes defence side, and particularly nowadays, from the side down to, as the Prime Minister put of Georgia in its wider context, Georgia with its it, values. aspiration to Euro-Atlantic integration. Going briefly to the visit of the President Saakashvili, I think this was particularly significant because he and British Prime Minister Tony Blair agreed that when you strike all the details away, it really comes down to, as the Prime Minister put it, values. Relations at the practical level are very important—assistance programs, visits, commercial relationships—but values are what really count. Georgia, being a post-Soviet country, has an extraordinarily modern and dynamic agenda, and the progress Georgia has made, and is trying to make to implement its modernising agenda makes us feel that there is great deal of common ground. Being at the highest political level, it was a very important meeting and it sent a signal across a wider field. GSAC: The UK has also been very supportive in the security field—helping with the International Security Advisory Board (ISAB), helping MOD with the military personnel system and training officers. Could you please give a brief overview of this kind of assistance? MacLaren: We have really been concentrating on looking for ways to complement Georgian security sector reform. During the last 4-5 years, we have involved ourselves in a number of different areas. English language teaching is particularly important because it helps the compatibility of Georgian officers in their peace support operations abroad. It is not just English for the sake of English—it has a real operational relevance. And we have been involved right down to “boots on the ground,” British soldiers and officers coming to do joint exercises with Georgians—nothing flashy, but it is a part of the training. Within the Ministry of Defence Then, of course, there is crucial infrastructure, including we have been involved in the very human infrastructure. Within the Ministry of Defence we complex area of Human have been involved in the very complex area of Human Resource management, working Resource management, working alongside our allies, for alongside our allies, for example, example, the Dutch. I think our effort over the last 4-5 the Dutch. years has been very broad-based. We have tried to complement the lines that Georgians themselves have set. These are connected with Georgia becoming operationally capable and compatible with our forces in overseas operations. This is important for Georgia’s NATO aspirations. As you mentioned, the groundwork was laid by ISAB in giving broad advice to the Georgians. But now, our work is specifically linked to the NATO Individual Partnership Action Plan. It is very good to see Georgians have taken that process seriously because they are still on the way to Georgian Security Analysis Center ♦ 3a Chitadze Street, Tbilisi, 0108, Georgia ♦ Tel.: +995 95 567 513 Fax: +995 32 98 52 65, E-mail: [email protected], www.gfsis.org/gsac MAP (NATO Membership Action Plan). We do not see it as series of isolated bits, but as an integrated whole. A large part of Georgia’s reform effort is to keep implementing what they have learned about standards, requirements and challenges. As they try to make their aspirations reality, we are there to help. GSAC: during your tenure in Georgia, what has been A different track had to Georgia’s greatest achievement? be taken, a different start had to be made, a MacLaren: I would not put my finger on any single achievement. different set of disciplines I would say that the overall achievement was to make a very clear and activities needed to be assessment of what happened during the 1990s and early 2000s launched, and we have and then to identify the reform agenda. The earlier path was not certainly seen that one for a country that had Euro-Atlantic aspirations. A different launch. track had to be taken, a different start had to be made, a different set of disciplines and activities needed to be launched, and we have certainly seen that launch. I think this is an achievement because it was not just a flash of anger with the previous regime— revolution, marching into Parliament, promises to people and then collapse. We have seen this government setting out its ideals and objectives in a very coherent way, and then setting its agenda. Then we have seen the government putting things in place. It has not always been one step after another, constant movement forward. Very often it has been one step forward and another step backwards, but we have seen a real determination to implement the agenda. Of course, any foreign observer is well aware of the areas that can be criticized. There has to be political diversity—oxygen has to be given to debate and to leaders of different poles of thought. I would mention reforming the judiciary, which had been identified early on as a high priority, and in which we put a lot of pressure on the Georgians. There are some sorts of things that I would not think need generations to achieve, things you might do quite quickly. Other things might take a lot longer, but this is not an excuse for any backsliding in this area. Recently we had a very senior group of Georgian judges, I would mention reforming the including the head of the Georgian Supreme Court, visit judiciary, which had been Britain to see the way we run our justice system. This is identified early on as a high just a small example, but it was not just a visit. We were priority, and in which we put a trying to help them see another system and the way it lot of pressure on the Georgians.