Regional Oral History Office University of California The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California University History Series Department of History at Berkeley Winthrop D. Jordan HISTORIAN OF SLAVERY AND RACE RELATIONS IN AMERICA, PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY, 1963-1982 Interviews conducted by Ann Lage in 2004 Copyright © 2009 by The Regents of the University of California 2 Since 1954 the Regional Oral History Office has been interviewing leading participants in or well-placed witnesses to major events in the development of Northern California, the West, and the nation. Oral History is a method of collecting historical information through tape-recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. The tape recording is transcribed, lightly edited for continuity and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewee. The corrected manuscript is bound with photographs and illustrative materials and placed in The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley, and in other research collections for scholarly use. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account, offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is reflective, partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ********************************* All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal agreement between The Regents of the University of California and Winthrop Jordan, dated November 10, 2008. The manuscript is thereby made available for research purposes. All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. No part of the manuscript may be quoted for publication without the written permission of the Director of The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to the Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, Mail Code 6000, University of California, Berkeley, 94720-6000, and should include identification of the specific passages to be quoted, anticipated use of the passages, and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Winthrop D. Jordan, “HISTORIAN OF SLAVERY AND RACE RELATIONS IN AMERICA, PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY, 1963-1982”, conducted by Ann Lage, 2004, Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, 2009. 3 Winthrop D. Jordan 4 Table of Contents—Winthrop D. Jordan Series Preface 7 Series List 10 Interview History—Ann Lage 12 Interview #1: July 15, 2004 (A.M.) [Audio File 1] 14 Parents’ backgrounds in New England, father a professor of history at Clark University— Mother, Lucretia Mott Churchill, descendant of women’s rights and antislavery advocate—Importance of family abolitionist and Quaker heritage—Father’s World War II service in OSS—Attending Phillips Academy, Andover, 1945-49: education, attitudes—A year at Marlborough College in England. [Audio File 2] 42 Continuing discussion of Marborough College: fagging, anti-Semitism, education— Undergraduate at Harvard, social relations major, 1950-53—Teaching at Phillips Exeter—MA at Clark University, 1957, thesis on Robert C. Winthrop—Marriage during Harvard years to childhood friend Phyllis Henry, later remarriage, children from first marriage—Studying for the PhD at Brown University, 1957-1960, under Donald Fleming—Importance of the John Carter Brown Library, breadth of the collection of early American primary materials, choice of dissertation topic on American attitudes toward the Negro—Importance of seminar in “dynamics of prejudice” at Harvard with Gordon Allport and Daniel Levinson—More on teaching at Phillips Exeter, backing into decision to be a historian—More on graduate education at Brown, a small program, old fashioned and rigorous—Fleming’s evaluation of his dissertation, lacking in conceptual framework—Writing White over Black, expanding the time frame, research while raising children. Interview #2: July 15, 2004 (P.M.) [Audio File 3] 65 More on research and writing of dissertation and book—Interviewing for the early American history position at Berkeley and his decision to come to Berkeley—Thoughts on Carl Bridenbaugh—Examining social attitudes in White over Black, looking at slavery in colonial times, sex and race, interweaving of psychological and socio-economic causes, insisting on the persistence of racial attitudes— Influence of civil rights movement on book not great—Time, sex, and money—Thoughts on the Jefferson- Hemings affair—Reception of White over Black, Bancroft Prize and other prizes—Race as a biological fact of life, as well as a social construction. 5 [Audio File 4] 91 Continuing discussion of White over Black, retrospective thoughts, bias in favor of cultural history—Writing an abridgement of White over Black, The White Man’s Burden (1974)—The Department of History at Berkeley, 1960s-1970s: strong age cohort of white men, slow hiring of women—Hiring Paula Fass, collaborating with Natalie Davis and Fass on course on the family, interest in age and gender relations. Interview #3: July 16, 2004 (A.M.) [Audio File 5] 101 Continuing discussion of the department at Berkeley, a “large gang,” Dwinelle Hall offices, the regular squash players—Raising children in Berkeley, public and private schools—Departmental parties, high morale—Response to Free Speech and antiwar movements, differences in the department, departures—First PhD oral exam, questioning the procedure—Quality and background of students at Berkeley, compared to Northeast, lack of ethnic politics, but increasing racial polarization over the years—Serving as “baby dean” in College of Letters and Science—Associate dean of the Graduate Division for Minority Group Affairs (1968-1970), under Sandy Elberg, setting up and funding first Graduate Minority Program—Difficulties in encouraging minority admissions to graduate programs. [Audio File 6] 127 Continuing discussion of minority grad student admissions—Attempting to evaluate admissions criteria and diminish importance of test results and graduation from “good” colleges—Response from Office of the President and from campus departments—HEW mandates on faculty hiring—Interracial tensions concerning the Graduate Minority Program—Experiences during the Third World Strike, reservations about a Third World College—Teaching history of black people and race relations, witnessing exploitation of black athletes. Interview #4: July 16, 2004 (P.M.) [Audio File 7] 150 Early years of the Afro-American studies department, supporting Bil Banks’s reforms, hiring of historian Albert Raboteau—Reflections on early Ethnic Studies program, divisions and politics—Thuggish threats to Bil Banks, tear gas on campus, bomb threats in California Hall—Status of women on campus, problems of women and minorities not equivalent—Appointment of women in history, difficult women and women’s difficulties—Changes observed as visiting professor in 1989: racial tensions in classes, a less collegial department—Writing history textbooks, teaching—More on morale and department gatherings. 6 [Audio File 8] 177 Graduate students—Leaving Berkeley for University of Mississippi, 1982—Research and writing Tumult and Silence—Reflecting on effects of the overwhelming success of White over Black—Education, politics, teaching at Ole Miss—Wife Cora Jordan—Beginning a Quaker meeting in Natchez. [End of Interview] 7 PREFACE TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HISTORY AT BERKELEY ORAL HISTORY SERIES The Department of History at Berkeley oral history series grew out of Gene Brucker's 1995 Faculty Research Lecture on "History at Berkeley." In developing his lecture on the transformations in the UC Berkeley Department of History in the latter half of the twentieth century, Brucker, whose tenure as professor of history from 1954 to 1991 spanned most of this period, realized how much of the story was undocumented. Discussion with Carroll Brentano, coordinator of the University History Project at the Center for Studies in Higher Education, history department faculty wife, and a former graduate student in history, reinforced his perception that a great deal of the history of the University and its academic culture was not preserved for future generations. The Department of History, where one might expect to find an abiding interest in preserving a historical record, had discarded years of departmental files, and only a fraction of history faculty members had placed their personal papers in the Bancroft Library.1 Moreover, many of the most interesting aspects of the history— the life experiences, cultural context, and personal perceptions—were only infrequently committed to paper.2 They existed for the most part in the memories of the participants. Carroll Brentano knew of the longtime work of the Regional Oral History Office (ROHO) in recording and preserving the memories of participants in the history of California and the West and the special interest of ROHO in University history. She and Gene Brucker then undertook to involve Ann Lage, a ROHO interviewer/editor who had conducted a number of oral histories in the University History Series and was herself a product of Berkeley's history department. In the course of a series of mutually enjoyable luncheon meetings,