TRANSCRIPT LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL LEGAL AND SOCIAL ISSUES COMMITTEE Inquiry into the Use of Cannabis in Victoria Melbourne—Wednesday, 19 May 2021 MEMBERS Ms Fiona Patten—Chair Ms Tania Maxwell Dr Tien Kieu—Deputy Chair Mr Craig Ondarchie Ms Jane Garrett Ms Kaushaliya Vaghela Ms Wendy Lovell PARTICIPATING MEMBERS Dr Matthew Bach Mr David Limbrick Ms Melina Bath Mr Edward O’Donohue Mr Rodney Barton Mr Tim Quilty Ms Georgie Crozier Dr Samantha Ratnam Dr Catherine Cumming Ms Harriet Shing Mr Enver Erdogan Mr Lee Tarlamis Mr Stuart Grimley Ms Sheena Watt Necessary corrections to be notified to executive officer of committee Wednesday, 19 May 2021 Legislative Council Legal and Social Issues Committee 18 WITNESSES Dr Devin Bowles, Chief Executive Officer, Alcohol Tobacco and Other Drug Association ACT; and Mr Michael Pettersson, MLA, Legislative Assembly for the Australian Capital Territory (both via videoconference). The CHAIR: Thank you, everyone. Welcome back. As I am sure you are aware, we are the Legislative Council’s Legal and Social Issues Committee, and this is a public hearing into the use of cannabis in Victoria. We are very pleased to be joined by a panel from the ACT. We have Dr Devin Bowles, who is the Chief Executive Officer of the Alcohol Tobacco and Other Drug Association, and are delighted to welcome our colleague Michael Pettersson, a member of the Legislative Assembly in the ACT. Here joining me today I have David Limbrick and Sheena Watt, and I am Fiona Patten, the Chair of this committee. Just to let you know—and I am sure this will come as no surprise to you, Michael—all evidence taken today is protected by our parliamentary privilege, and that comes under our Constitution Act but also the Legislative Council’s standing orders. Therefore any information you provide during the hearing is protected by law. However, if you were to go elsewhere and repeat the same things, you may not have the same protection. Any deliberately false evidence or misleading of this committee may be considered a contempt of Parliament. As you can see, we are hanging onto your every word. We have transcribers from Hansard, and also our broadcasting team. You will receive a Hansard record of this hearing, and I would encourage you to have a quick look through it to make sure that we have not misrepresented you, because ultimately it will go up onto the committee’s website and these transcripts do form part of our report. Just to let you know, we will be reporting in the first week of August. I welcome you to make some opening remarks for the committee. We are also joined by Matthew Bach, who you hopefully can see on your screen. Thank you for joining us, Matthew. Michael or Devin, could I get some opening remarks from you before we open it up to a committee discussion. Mr PETTERSSON: Sure. I have got a short opening statement. The CHAIR: Lovely. Mr PETTERSSON: Good morning, committee. It is an absolute delight to be here with you today. It is always a bit fun seeing how other jurisdictions conduct their committee business. In 2019 I introduced the Drugs of Dependence (Personal Cannabis Use) Amendment Bill to the ACT Legislative Assembly. This Bill sought to legalise cannabis for personal use. It allows for individuals to possess up to 50 grams of cannabis for their own personal use and to grow two cannabis plants to a household limit of four. To some this may sound radical, but for most Canberrans it was not. At the time ACT government research had shown that 54 per cent of Canberrans supported legalising cannabis for personal use and only 27 per cent were opposed to the change. The majority of Canberrans were in favour of seeing our drug laws reformed, and it definitely showed in how the community debate was undertaken. I do not see cannabis law reform as a left-right issue, and I do not see it as a partisan issue either. To some it is an issue of personal freedom and liberties, and for others it is about breaking down stigmas and offering public health support in moments of crisis. And to some it is simply about reassessing the cost and effectiveness of our current laws. This is an issue that I hope many can find agreement on if they give themselves an opportunity to consider new perspectives. I want to be very clear: supporting cannabis law reform is not contingent upon having used cannabis or, for some committee members, having plans to consume it in the future. I think it is just good public policy. The Bill I introduced and then was passed by the ACT Legislative Assembly came into effect on 31 January 2020, and with it the ACT became the first jurisdiction to legalise cannabis possession. To some people’s surprise, the sky did not fall in. As time passed it became clear that the overall impact of legalisation was rather subtle and not as drastic as many had hoped. According to a wastewater analysis, cannabis usage rates remained the same upon the Bill’s passing and consistent with trends in other jurisdictions over time. Wednesday, 19 May 2021 Legislative Council Legal and Social Issues Committee 19 According to ACT police, drug driving offences have remained steady. And according to ACT Health, legalisation has not increased the number of cannabis-related hospital presentations. These are of course early numbers and very blunt measures, but they do not spell the doom that many predicted. The legal conflicts between the commonwealth and ACT laws have also proved unproblematic. No-one has been charged for unlawful possession under federal legislation, and ACT police report they have not faced any issues with implementing the new laws. Within the first year cannabis offences dropped by 90 per cent. Personal possession remains an offence for minors, and the remaining offences were due to minors being dealt with under the decriminalisation framework that still exists on the ACT’s books. For some context, before cannabis possession was legalised in ACT the last report by the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission on the 2018–19 reporting period stated that in the ACT 55 consumers of cannabis were issued a civil penalty under the decriminalisation framework and 334 consumers of cannabis were arrested. The classification of cannabis as an illicit drug is an unnecessary burden on the criminal justice system. Studies show that one in three Australians have used cannabis in their lifetime and one in 10 of us have used cannabis in the past year. Let that sink in for a moment. One-third of the Australian population are quite literally criminals liable for a prison sentence. I am not an expert on many things, but on this one I am almost certain we do not have enough room in prison for that many people. Reforming drug laws to allow possession of small amounts of cannabis is a positive policy based on harm minimisation. Time and time again research has shown that criminalisation is harmful, not helpful. Generally speaking Australia’s current approach to drug policy concentrates on the idea that drug use is a moral failing and a criminal issue. This detracts from the idea that drug use is first and foremost a health issue. There is no secret that tobacco use and alcohol consumption have serious ramifications for the health of Australians. These are both legal drugs with practically no chance of being made illegal. Tobacco and alcohol use contributed to 13.8 per cent of the total burden of disease within Australia in 2015; illicit drugs contributed 2.7 per cent of the total burden of disease, and of that 2.7 per cent, cannabis comprised only 8.3 per cent. Tobacco, alcohol and cannabis are readily available to those who want to use those substances. Anyone over 18 can go for a drink at a bar or purchase cigarettes from a local convenience store. And overwhelmingly people that want to use cannabis know how to procure it through the black market, whether that be in a public transport interchange, a nightclub bathroom or even the schoolyard. When it comes to alcohol and tobacco we recognise that prohibiting these substances is ineffective. Instead of criminalising these drugs, we have other measures in place to reduce the societal and health-related harms that they cause. I want to be very clear: I know that there are adverse health effects associated with cannabis use. Cannabis is inherently dangerous. We know that it can have a negative impact on the mental health of those who have pre-existing mental health conditions or those who are genetically predisposed to have one. But when you compare the health effects of other legal drugs, the argument against legalisation based on the supposed health concerns just does not make sense. In closing, I think it is very early days for the ACT, but the early signs are positive, and I look forward to answering the committee’s questions. The CHAIR: Thank you. Thanks very much, Michael. Devin, would you like to make some opening comments? Dr BOWLES: I would love to. Thank you for the invitation to speak to you today about Canberra’s experience in partially legalising cannabis possession. I am afraid I may repay your kind invitation with testimony that is anticlimactic at best, because the story is that we found that cannabis use has not changed, and that is important because there were some really dire predictions at the outset. But while the sky has not fallen in, people who need access to treatment are better able to achieve that access and the taxpayer is saving money.