20150505_STL-11-01_T_T147_OFF_PUB_EN 1/108 PUBLIC Official Transcript Procedural Matters (Open Session) Page 1 1 Special Tribunal for Lebanon 2 In the case of The Prosecutor v. Ayyash, Badreddine, Merhi, 3 Oneissi, and Sabra 4 STL-11-01 5 Presiding Judge David Re, Judge Janet Nosworthy, 6 Judge Micheline Braidy, Judge Walid Akoum, and 7 Judge Nicola Lettieri - [Trial Chamber] 8 Tuesday, 5 May 2015 - [Trial Hearing] 9 [Open Session] 10 --- Upon commencing at 9.48 a.m. 11 THE REGISTRAR: The Special Tribunal for Lebanon is sitting in an 12 open session in the case of the Prosecutor versus Ayyash, Badreddine, 13 Merhi, Oneissi, and Sabra, case number STL-11-01. 14 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: Good morning. We will continue with the 15 evidence of Mr. Jumblatt. I note the appearances of Mr. Cameron for the 16 Prosecution, Mr. Haynes and Ms. Abdelsater-Abusamra for the Legal 17 Representative for the Victims, Mr. Aoun for Mr. Ayyash, Mr. Korkmaz and 18 Mr. Edwards for Mr. Badreddine, Mr. Roberts for Mr. Sabra, Mr. Hassan for 19 Mr. Oneissi, Mr. Aouini for Mr. Merhi. And there are three people from 20 the Defence Office seated in the court this morning. 21 Good morning to you, Mr. Jumblatt. 22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning. 23 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: I trust you've been able to refresh yourself 24 overnight and are ready to resume your evidence. 25 Just a short administrative matter. The Prosecution filed what Tuesday, 05 May 2015 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20150505_STL-11-01_T_T147_OFF_PUB_EN 2/108 PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Walid Jumblatt PRH-684 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 2 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued) 1 they called an urgent Prosecution request to vary disclosure time-limit 2 yesterday, seeking an extension of time until the 29th of May to do some 3 disclosure. I don't need a response from the Defence at the moment, but 4 can you please turn your minds to this during the day and we'll deal with 5 it at some point later this afternoon. 6 Mr. Roberts. 7 MR. ROBERTS: Sorry, just to check, you wanted to deal with it 8 orally this afternoon? Okay great. Thank you. 9 PRESIDING JUDGE RE: I understand that counsel for Mr. Sabra are 10 the only ones who have received it. It was courtesy copied. It hasn't 11 been distributed yet. But I'm sure you'll be able to turn your minds to 12 this and master the complexities of this particular filing by this 13 afternoon. 14 Mr. Cameron. 15 MR. CAMERON: Thank you. 16 WITNESS: WALID JUMBLATT [Resumed] 17 [Witness answered through interpreter] 18 Examination by Mr. Cameron: [Continued] 19 Q. Good morning, Mr. Jumblatt. 20 A. [In English] Good morning. [Interpretation] Good morning. 21 Q. When we left off yesterday, we were dealing with what had been 22 admitted as Exhibit 424 in the proceedings, which is at Prosecution queue 23 number 19 in the English and number 20 in the Arabic. And it is a 24 Press Review issued by the United Nations Information Centre dated the 25 6th of September, 2004. And we had been looking at page 2, which is Tuesday, 05 May 2015 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20150505_STL-11-01_T_T147_OFF_PUB_EN 3/108 PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Walid Jumblatt PRH-684 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 3 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued) 1 ERN D0410763, and I wanted to ask you about three different positions 2 that are set out in three paragraphs of the Press Review. The first 3 position appears midway down the page under the heading: "US Contends 4 Lahoud's Extension Dictated By Occupation Force." And the text reads: 5 "The United States said that the extension of President Emile 6 Lahoud's term as president of Lebanon was an 'operation dictated on the 7 Lebanese by an occupation force,' An-Nahar reported Sunday according to 8 Naharnet. In a statement released Saturday, the White House in 9 Washington said, 'The vote by the Lebanese parliament to amend the 10 constitution ... is a distortion of democracy.' It added that, 'It is 11 not a victory for democracy. It does not reflect the will of the 12 Lebanese people. It was forced on them by an occupation force,' in 13 reference to Syria. It also branded the Syrian action as a direct 14 contradiction to Resolution 1559 of the UN Security Council." 15 Now, were you aware of the publicly broadcast positions of the 16 United States during this period regarding the extension of 17 President Lahoud? And I'm going to ask you whether this is consistent 18 with your understanding, or not, of what was being published about the US 19 position during this period? 20 A. I was not aware in advance of the intentions or the opinions of 21 the United States regarding this issue. I was not aware. 22 Q. My question was: Is this the type of thing that was being 23 published around this period of time reflecting US -- the US position 24 regarding the extension of President Lahoud? Whether you are aware of it 25 or not, were you aware of the publicity and this kind of public statement Tuesday, 05 May 2015 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20150505_STL-11-01_T_T147_OFF_PUB_EN 4/108 PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Walid Jumblatt PRH-684 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 4 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued) 1 being reported of the US position? 2 A. I read it like anyone else in the newspapers, as I read it today, 3 in newspapers. 4 Q. And was this kind of paragraph typical of what you would read 5 during that period of time? 6 A. As I previously mentioned, we were committed to the 7 Taif Agreement, which is very clear, in saying that the Syrians must 8 withdraw from Lebanon according to a certain plan and schedule. But from 9 the start we did not approve 1559. That was a basic position. 10 Q. Please listen more closely to my question. It's a fairly simple 11 question. I read you a passage that was reported in the UN Press Review 12 about the US position. All I'm asking you is not your position or 13 whether you knew of it in advance. The only thing I'm asking you is 14 whether this kind of sentiment was typical of the things that were 15 published about the US position back in September of 2004? 16 A. I do not remember. I do not remember hearing such positions. 17 I've read this in the newspapers. 18 Q. All right. If I could take you to page 3 of this UN Press Review 19 which is at ERN D0410764 under the heading: "Hezbollah Says France Made 20 a Mistake." And the paragraph reads: 21 "Hezbollah's Deputy Secretary-General Sheikh Naim Kassem has said 22 Hezbollah is committed to Lebanese-Syrian relations now more than ever. 23 He insisted that both Lebanon and Syria should co-operate to counter 24 possible challenges in the future, the liberal daily Al-Balad reported 25 Monday. 'After France got involved in a losing battle (following its Tuesday, 05 May 2015 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20150505_STL-11-01_T_T147_OFF_PUB_EN 5/108 PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Walid Jumblatt PRH-684 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 5 Examination by Mr. Cameron (Continued) 1 support of the US ... resolution against Syria), it lost some of its 2 credibility in the region,' Kassem said. 'France should have weighed the 3 Lebanese mood before participating with the US in this decision,' ..." 4 Now, during this period of time do you have an understanding of 5 the relationship between Hezbollah and the Syrian regime back in the 6 latter half of 2004 and into 2005? 7 A. The relationship between Hezbollah and the Syrian regime had 8 always been good. Historically it was a good relationship and nothing 9 has changed. 10 Q. When you say "a good relationship," what do you mean by that? 11 A. When the Taif Agreement was prepared and we agreed on disarming 12 the Lebanese militias, the resistance - this is what we call it 13 today - the Hezbollah militias remained an armed militia in order to 14 liberate Lebanon from the Israeli occupation. And that was something 15 that was agreed upon between all parties within the Lebanese state and 16 with Syria. 17 Q. You had times when you had good relations and bad relations with 18 the Syrian regime. When you say that the Syrian regime and Hezbollah had 19 good relations during this period of time, notwithstanding the 20 Taif Accord of the early 1990s, in 2004 and early 2005, what do you mean 21 when you say that the relationship between Syria and Hezbollah was good? 22 A. It's a long-standing relationship that started during the days of 23 President Hafez Al-Assad. Hezbollah was one of the parties that 24 supported Syria, as it was the case for me at a certain point before I 25 began dissociating myself from Syria as of 1998 till 2004, but we were Tuesday, 05 May 2015 STL-11-01 Interpretation serves to facilitate communication. Only the original speech is authentic. 20150505_STL-11-01_T_T147_OFF_PUB_EN 6/108 PUBLIC Official Transcript Witness: Walid Jumblatt PRH-684 (Resumed) (Open Session) Page 6 Examination by Mr.