Vol. 726 Wednesday No. 130 23 March 2011 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions Extradition: Gary McKinnon Video Recordings Act 2010 Wales: Organ Donation Young People: Custody Hereditary Peer By-election Announcement Draft Defamation Bill Motion to Approve Code of Recommended Practice on Local Authority Publicity Order of Commitment Discharged Local Authorities (Mayoral Elections) (England and Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2011 Motion to Approve Housing and Regeneration Act 2008 (Consequential Amendments to the Mobile Homes Act 1983) Order 2011 Mobile Homes Act 1983 (Amendment of Schedule 1 and Consequential Amendments) (England) Order 2011 Mobile Homes Act 1983 (Jurisdiction of Residential Property Tribunals) (England) Order 2011 Motions to Approve Public Bodies Bill [HL] Report (1st Day) Ecclesiastical Fees (Amendment) Measure Care of Cathedrals Measure Mission and Pastoral Measure Motions to Present for Royal Assent Public Bodies Bill [HL] Report (1st Day) (Continued) Grand Committee Nine Statutory Instruments Considered in Grand Committee Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page £3·50 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. 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All prices are inclusive of postage. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2011, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 4DU; email: [email protected] 729 Extradition: Gary McKinnon[23 MARCH 2011] Extradition: Gary McKinnon 730 When the Chief Medical Officer chooses an appropriate House of Lords psychiatrist or a panel, it is essential that the psychiatrist is someone who specialises in adults with an autistic Wednesday, 23 March 2011. spectrum disorder. That is because to date, the solicitors who have seen Mr McKinnon at the behest of the 3pm Government have not been specialists, and at the end of their investigations have openly admitted that this Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Exeter. is not their specialist area. Extradition: Gary McKinnon Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, the sole grounds with which the Government are now concerned are Question Mr McKinnon’s medical condition and whether it would be an abuse of his human rights under the 3.06 pm European Convention on Human Rights to extradite Asked By Lord Maginnis of Drumglass him to the United States. Some noble Lords may wish to note that this is a case where the European Convention To ask Her Majesty’s Government what recent on Human Rights is at the centre of the issue. discussions they have had with the Government of the United States about the extradition of Gary Baroness Wilkins: My Lords, does the Minister McKinnon. accept that Gary McKinnon had a history of mental health issues prior to any of these legal issues? Indeed, Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, we regularly there is a history of mental illness on both sides of the discuss a range of extradition matters with the United family going back three generations. It is not just a States authorities, who are anxious to see a conclusion matter of him having been diagnosed with Asperger’s to Mr McKinnon’s case. However, further consideration syndrome in September 2010. has been delayed because my right honourable friend the Home Secretary wishes, before deciding the case, Lord Wallace of Saltaire: It was August 2008, my to obtain an up-to-date assessment by medical experts Lords. I have seen all these pieces of evidence which recommended to her by the Chief Medical Officer, have been circulated widely among us. But this is an and Mr McKinnon has not yet granted medical consent extradition case and we have to be concerned with the for this to take place. legal process and the evidence presented to that process. This evidence has now been presented and we are Lord Maginnis of Drumglass: My Lords, I am grateful hoping that there can soon be an examination by to the Minister for that Answer, but it tells me little expert witnesses who can provide the basis on which more than I already know. Is it not ironic that a the Home Secretary and others can take a judgment. Parliament which has voted against the lengthy detention of criminals should keep a young man suffering from Lord Tebbit: My Lords, is the noble Lord aware the condition known as Asperger’s syndrome in that we are all sympathetic to him personally, for he is psychological torture for more than 3,300 days? Is it the victim of a very unfair, unbalanced extradition not time for the Home Office to liaise with those who treaty? If he has any trouble with the American authorities, have expertise in autism? Perhaps the department should will he tell them that he has no more confidence that go to the National Autistic Society and ask for a list of Mr McKinnon would get a fair trial there than some people with expertise in the area rather than relying on Americans had that IRA suspects would get a fair trial the normal line of, “Let’s see what the Chief Medical here when the extradition of IRA terrorists was refused Officer says”. by the United States on the basis that they could not get a fair trial in this country? Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord wishes to question the expertise of the Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, the Extradition newly appointed Chief Medical Officer. Negotiations Act 2003 and the agreement with the United States are under way about the choice of an expert or a panel were, among other things, to deal with the problem of of experts, and we are assured by Mr McKinnon’s extraditing IRA suspects from the United States. We solicitors that they will consent to this. That is what we have to recognise that extradition is a process in which are waiting for. We have to recognise that these are there has to be mutual trust and respect between the complicated legal issues which have to be dealt with by legal authorities in different countries. This was to legal means. Further, perhaps I may remind noble improve extradition between the United States and Lords that Mr McKinnon was diagnosed with Asperger’s Britain and also between Britain and Canada, Australia, syndrome in August 2008. New Zealand and a number of other countries. There are, of course, those in Britain who do not think that Baroness Browning: My Lords, when I met it is possible to have a fair trial in the United States Mr McKinnon’s mother last week, she informed me and there are those in the United States who think that that his state of health is deteriorating all the time. I it is impossible to have a fair trial in the United hope that my noble friend will be concerned to learn Kingdom. We have, however, to respect each other’s that Mr McKinnon spends every day behind closed legal procedures within democratic countries governed curtains and does not participate in life as he used to. by the rule of law. 731 Extradition: Gary McKinnon[LORDS] Video Recordings Act 2010 732 Lord Morris of Aberavon: My Lords, are the I noted that the Minister said “by the summer”, but if Government giving any consideration to the fairness the evidence is collected earlier than that, will the of the extradition treaty and will they revisit it? Government institute the consultation as soon as possible? Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, the coalition Baroness Rawlings: My noble friend Lord Clement- agreement stated that there would be a review of Jones is absolutely right. We have read the results of extradition arrangements and in September 2010 the the Mumsnet survey with interest. It presented an Government announced that the right honourable interesting snapshot of views on some of the issues. Sir Scott Baker would lead a review, which is now well We hope that people will respond as well to our larger, under way. That review panel will visit Brussels about more detailed consultation in due course.