Second 8esslon·Thirty-Fifth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba STANDING COMMI1TEE on MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS 40 Elizabeth II Chairman Mrs. Louise Dacquay Constituencyof Seine River VOL. XL No.4 -7 p.m., THURSDAY, JULY 18,1991 IG-8048 ISSN0713-956X Printedby theOfflce of the 0.-.s Printer, Provinceof Manitoba MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Fifth Legislature LIB - Liberal; NO- New Democrat; PC - Progressive Conservative NAME CONSTITUENCY PARTY. ALCOCK, Reg Osborne LIB ASHTON, Steve Thompson NO BARRETT, Becky Wellington NO CARR, James Crescentwood LIB CARSTAIRS, Sharon River Heights LIB CERILLI, Marianne Radisson NO CHEEMA, Guizar The Maples LIB CHOMIAK, Dave Kildonan NO CONNERY, Edward Portage Ia Prairie PC CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose PC DACQUAY, Louise Seine River PC DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NO DOER, Gary Concordia NO DOWNEY, James, Hon. Arthur-Virden PC DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. Steinbach PC DUCHARME, Gerry, Hon. Riel PC EDWARDS, Paul St. James LIB ENNS, Harry, Hon. Lakeside PC ERNST, Jim, Hon. Charleswood PC EVANS, Ciif Interlake NO EVANS, Leonard S. Brandon East NO FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo PC RNDLAY, Glen, Hon. Springfield PC FRIESEN, Jean Wolseley NO GAUDRY, Neil St. Boniface LIB GILLESHAMMER, Harold,Hon. Minnedosa PC HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NO HELWER, Edward R. Gimli PC HICKES, George Point Douglas NO LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster LIB LATHLIN, Oscar The Pas NO LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert PC MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NO MANNESS, Clayton, Hon. Morris PC MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows NO McALPINE, Gerry SturgeonCreek PC McCRAE, James, Hon. Brandon West PC MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon. Assiniboia PC MITCHELSON, Bonnie,Hon. River East PC NEUFELD, Harold, Hon. Rossmere PC ORCHARD, Donald, Hon. Pembina PC PENNER, Jack Emerson PC PLOHMAN, John Dauphin NO PRAZNIK,Darr en, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC REID. Daryl Transcona NO REIMER, Jack Niakwa PC RENDER, Shirley St. Vital PC ROCAN, Denis, Hon. Gladstone PC ROSE, Bob Turtle Mountain PC SANTOS, Conrad Broadway NO STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC STORIE, Jerry AinAon NO SVEINSON, Ben La Verendrye PC VODREY, Rosemary Fort Garry PC WASYLYCIA-LEIS, Judy St. Johns NO WOWCHUK, Rosann Swan River NO 121 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS Thursday,July 18,1991 TIME-7p.m. *** LOCATION- Winnipeg, Manitoba Madam Chairman: Order, please. Would the CHAIRMAN - Mrs. Louise Dacquay (Seine Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs please River) come to order. This committee is to hear thepublic representation on Bill 68, The City of Winnipeg 11 6 ATT ENDANCE- -QUORUM- Amendment Act (2). Members of the Committeepresent: I will first read the list of all presenters. If there is Hon. Messrs. Enns, Ernst, Hon. Mrs. anyone in the audience who wishes to make a Mitchelson presentation whose name I do not read, would you Mr. Carr, Mrs. Dacquay, Ms. Friesen, Messrs. please indicate to the clerk your intention to make Gaudry, Maloway, McAlpine, Rose, Mrs. representation? Vodrey • (1905) WITNESSES: Number 1, Mr. Doug McGiffin, Winnipeg In the Doug McGiffin,Winnipeg In theNineties Nineties; 2, Mr. Ken Guilford, Private Citizen; 3, Councillor Roger Young, Pembina-RiverviewWard ; Ken Guilford, Private Citizen 4, Councillor George Fraser, Private Citizen; 5, Roger Young, Pembina-Riverview Ward, City CouncillorTerry Duguid,Miles MacDonnell Ward;6, of Winnipeg Councillor Peter Diamont, University Ward; 7, Ms. Shirley Lord, Private Citizen; 8, Councillor Glen George Fraser, Private Citizen Murray, River-Osborne Ward; 9, Mr. George Lapp, Peter Diamont, University Ward, City of Private Citizen; 10, Mr. Jim Mandryk, Private Winnipeg Citizen; 11, Mr. Gary Coopland, Private Citizen; 12, Shirley Lord, Private Citizen Mr. Grant Nordman, Private Citizen; 13, Mr. John Harrison, Private Citizen; 14, Mr. David Brown, Glen Murray, River-Osborne Ward, City of Private Citizen; 15, Mr. Mike O'Shaughnessy, Winnipeg Private Citizen; 16, Mr. Gordon Mackie, Private John Harrison, Private Citizen Citizen; 17, Mr. Bernie Wolfe, Private Citizen; 18, Mr. Glen Hewitt, St. Boniface-St. Vital Resident David Brown, Private Citizen Advisory Group; 19, Dr. Jim Shapiro, St. Germain Mike O'Shaughnessy, Private Citizen ResidentsAssociati on; 20, Mr. Kenneth Emberley, Glen Hewitt, St. BonHace-St. Vital Residents Private Citizen; 21, Mr. Frank Goldspink, Manitoba Advisory Group Communist Party; 22, Ms. Jean Miller-Usiskin, Private Citizen; and 23, Councillor Greg Selinger, Jim Shapiro, St. Germain Residents Tache Ward. Association Number 1, Mr. Doug McGiffin, Winnipeg In the Kenneth Emberley, Private Citizen Nineties. Welcome, Mr. McGHfin, if you would just Shirley Timm-Rudolph, Springfield Heights wait 30 seconds while the clerk distributes the Ward, City of Winnipeg copies of your presentation to the members of the committee, please? I am sorry, it has just been AI Golden, Glenward Ward, City of Winnipeg handed in, and the clerk is in the processof making MATTERSUNDER DISCUSSION: copies, so with the will of the committee we will proceed. Is that the will of the committee? Bill 68-The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act (2) Some Honourable Members: Agreed. 122 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 18, 1991 Madam Chairman: Okay. Please proceed, Mr. Review Committee is not compelling in its McGiffin. argument. Mr. Doug McGiffln (Winnipeg In the Nineties): WIN must express its grave concern for the Madam Chairman, does the committee have copies process which the provincial government initiated to of the brief now? change Winnipeg's electoral boundaries. Madam Chairman: No, but we will momentarily. It Combining the public policy consultation and the is being photocopied at this point in time, but you wards boundary revision, two very distinct activities may proceed. in the mandate of the partisan Winnipeg Wards Review Committee was improper. Although the Mr. McGiffln: What I wanted to do, Madam minister was forced by public opinion to reassign Chairman, this evening is go through thebrief thatI boundary redistribution to the Wards Review am presenting to you and entertain questions Commission, we believe that the minister's initial afterwards, if you have any questions on the brief. error and his blatantly political approach to the Winnipeg In the Nineties or WIN, if you are not council reduction has permanently tainted the familiar with, is agrassroots, nonpartisan, volunteer outcome of the entire council reduction process. organization working for a better Winnipeg. WIN The provincial government's entire approach to promotes open civic government which facilitates council reduction has been backwards. They have citizens' access to information and to the decision been negligent by failing to determine the public's makers and encourages their participation in the expectations of councillors and the duties they are political life of the city. expected to perform. Cutting council to 15 seats WIN believes that Winnipeg'sward structure and and then leaving councillors to fudge the real world number shouldbe aconcrete working expression of roles and responsibilities after the fact Is that viewpoint. WIN does not support Bill 68which Irresponsible. proposes to reduce Winnipeg City Council from 29 • (1910) seats to 15 seats. WIN does not know the right WIN also believes thatthe provincialgovernment number of council seats, nor do we have the has been negligentin its failure to involve Winnipeg research resources to establish it. We maintain, City Council In the ward reduction consultation. however. thatthe number ofcouncil seats should be Recent political experience has taught us that a suchthat it would ensure adequate citizen access senior government should not impose structural or to counciUors, recognize the importance of our institutionalchanges on a lower governmentwithout neighbourhoods and communities, promote local the latter's involvement. City Council should have control in neighbourhood Issues and planning, and been invited to participate in the consultation from encourage politicaland cultural diversity on council the very first day. itself. Indeed, what is the problem? The Minister of In the meantime, our membership supports the Urban Affairs (Mr. Ernst) has vaguely talked about retention of29 council seats. WIN believes thatthe the need for efficiency and his concern about too provincial government's council related much discussion at City Hall, but his prejudices are amendments, The City of Winnipeg Act, will work hardly grounds for unilaterally and arbitrarily cutting against our citizens' best interests. City Council seats. For WIN, the firstproblem is the WIN has challengedthe provincial government to failure of the provincial governmentto state clearly disclose thecriteria by whichit determinedthat a 12- and decisively why it wants to reduce the size of to 15-seat council is appropriate. Winnipeggers council at all. Secondly, the provincial government have yet to be informed of their substantive should have informed Winnipeggers of the reasoning on this count. Certainly, failure to principles and criteria guiding the reduction and disclose suggests that the reasonsfor reducing the redistribution of council seats. Does the minister size of council are different than those stated. even have guidelines? Apparently not. We would also be interested in seeing better What efficiency? This point has been well support for the Winnipeg Wards Review discussed by other interveners. On the main Committee'sopinion that a 1 5-member City Council discussion,WIN repeats the same