Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 1

Interview with Igor Galo THEY TOLD ME THAT I AM QUITE A REBEL BUT NOT A NASTY ONE Interviewer and photographer: Igor Pop Trajkov photos from the sets are courtesy of Mr. Igor Galo translations of the answers from Croatian into English by Igor Pop Trajkov

- They say the childhood is a most important part of the life of an artist. How would you describe yours?

My childhood was amazingly enriched with the experiences I had while moving from the place of my birth- Chupria in Serbia. That begun in 1948, by my parting in Maribor, Slovenia, than in in , where I finished my primary education, than while I was in Sarajevo in Bosnia, than in Zadar, Knin and finally in Pula where I finished my with my high-school education. Those places, those people, the nationalities, the languages, the mentalities influenced my forming, regarding my cultural and personal identity. Foremost I gained stability facing new situations and challenges, and remaining the energy and decisiveness to maintain my identity. I think of that as an important component for all creative people, from the artists from all disciplines, the soul engineers but also, the real engineers that must solve the problem without circumventing it.

- Did your parents support you in your way to become an artist? Or they thought you should look after for a more promising profession? What were the origins of your parents; were there any artists in your family too? Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 2

My parents had no artistic background. They were poor inhabitants of the poor Istria beneath the Mussolini rule. The possibility for education was small if there was a possibility at all. But those poor inhabitants had affinity for music, literature and cinema. WWII caught them in their best years, and separated them, since my father was mobilized in the Italian army where he found himself as occupier of the territory of Macedonia, in the place of Debar, as a member of the division “Florence” in the autumn of 1941. In order to make some things clarified regarding this issue, my father (together with his Slovenian and Croatian friends from the Italian army) contacted the illegal movement of the communist party in Debar, with the agreement with which, they all defected to. In other words they deserted from the Italian army in the mid of June 1943, almost 2 months before the capitulation of Italy. I think this is of great importance since those Italian deserters (together with my father) formed the First Kichevo Partisan Unit that summer of 1943 and they were the ones that disarmed the garrison of “their” Italian army in Debar. This is the background from which I originated. Throughout the whole war my father had a camera, which I inherited. He also gave me his love for the photography. Later during my primary school and high-school my attitude towards the theater and film flourished. However, I inscribed myself, at the industrial department at the Forestry Faculty in . I didn’t have the ambition to give myself to acting, especially not at the academy. However, my life returned me back to the film, by a pure luck. The assistant of the director Krešo Golik- Drago Bahun, noticed me while I was a stunt in the movie “Three Hours for Love” by Fadil HaĎić. He invited me at the preliminary filming of “I Have Two Mamas and Two Papas” in 1968. I got the part and then I began to receive offers one after another. I neglected my studies. My parents never overcome this. They were always afraid and skeptical about my future. However, now I am retired on the basis of my work on film from my 19th year. My mother still thinks I could do much better… but I think that life simply goes in its own way. I am glad that my oldest niece has developed a pronouncedly wide range of interest for the arts. Of course I am supporting this interest. But I shouldn’t be in a hurry. She is only second grade in the primary school.

- Who selected you firstly for a film role? What did they tell you- why did they select you?

I already answered this in the previous question. They told me that I am urban boy, unlike the then mostly, proletarian-peasantry population in the films. They told me that I am quite a rebel Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 3 but not a nasty one, that I am youthfully charming, young enough but not a child; old enough as well but not an acting student - so a pure and useful raw material, unspoiled by the frustrated acting professors.

- What can you tell us about your youth? If you are 16 again what would you do?

I thought of becoming an engineer, I inscribed myself at this faculty, parallel with the shootings I liked. I still like to engage myself with woods, iron, clay - with building!

- Do you think that the old system or the system now is more in favor of producing movies with real artistic values?

I think that in the old system there were far braver steps and creations comparing it with the current systems of the so called democracies. There sure are creative and brave authors and today, but there are no institutions that could recognize these values, so nobody discovers them nor supports them. Before too there were preferential treatments and corruption but that is incomparable with the contemporary situation in all of the states of ex-Yugoslavia. Aside this, the amount of money and the production capacities cannot be compared with that old system- not by its strength nor by its creativity.

- They say that Yugoslavia didn’t have censorship nor prosecution of the artists as it was the case in the other communist countries, but the new evidences show that actually there were a lot of violations of HR regarding the artists. How would you describe the freedom of expression in Yugoslavia? What do you think about what happened with Risto Shishkov1?

Yes there was a censorship in ex-Yugolsavia. But I do not remember any violence or endangerment towards the film-workers, especially not the actors, with an exception of perhaps Risto Shiskov, which was so obvious. I know no details of the endangerment of the basic human rights in his case. I saw that his character and work took significant place in the new Museum of the Macedonian Fight for Independence in Skopje. He even has wax figurine so perhaps that means something to the Macedonian people or to its achievement; but I don’t know what does it prove? Generally viewed I think that the censorship was a cup of tea, in a sense far more

1 Risto Shishkov was arrested and kept in prison for a long time where he died. After the fall of Yugoslavia new evidence appeared showing that he was murdered. His sister appeared on TV claiming that when she visited him in the hospital he had bruises from beating on his back. He told his family that he was constantly beaten Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 4 accepting than the current situation of that something that is even worse, which ignorance is. In the censorship- we at least knew of the censors. There was an explanation for the censorship and there was a signature of the one that did it, so you could attack the censors and the censorship. I played in the film “Masquerade” 1971 by Bostjan Hladnik. This was a film that was publicly forbidden for showing in the country but not for the sales around the world?! It was transparent for who did the band and who put the signature on it. In the current funny states, in their film funds and other institutions you won’t find any sign that somebody perhaps denounced some project that insults the feelings of some states or peoples, whatever that might mean. In that case there is no category of freedom of thinking. Act of ignoring (for the system you are) is a non- existing category- which is worse than being a dissident in your own country. The international and local community cares about the dissidents but about the ignored ones cares nobody!

- What do you think about your colleagues? Were they showing enough solidarity towards each other? What do you think about those colleagues that were the collaborators of the communist SS? Do you approve the removing of the books from the public libraries of Günter Grass and Milan Kundera?

First of all we must underline that the actors are the most susceptible group, the one that is mostly adulatory. Their work and career depend mostly from the will of the others: the directors, the producers and the political sponsorship. In the past 30 years the converting became a main characteristic for the politicians and for all those others like the actors. I remember the winners of the award of the Seven Secretaries of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia that in 1991 run into the nationalistic camps of the cleric-right-wing profiles so that they won’t lose their status and comfort. They became servers for the politicians and the powerful. Those others stayed at the margins or in profiting. I met small numbers of them that stayed individual and independent, but they do exist and I am taking care of them. I like to describe this situation with the economy terminology: there is a small amount of those that are holding the control package of their own actions; they are at least 51%. This is unfortunately how our states are. None has the control package in its hands. Then how will the small man survive? Considering the books and their removal from the public libraries, of course I am against that. I was against this in 1991 too when with a warrant from the Ministry of Culture of Croatia books were threw out from the school libraries because they were written in Cyrillic. This was so Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 5 even with the Serb books which were printed on Latin. The declarative democracy, by default is not guarantee for the freedom of the human rights, freedom of neither thinking nor the democracy itself. We are currently living in the time of the incapable democracy.

- You seem to me as you were always in love in the art of film-making. Could you explain us this particular feeling? Did your profession ask from you too much sacrifice?

I never sacrificed anything for my goals, especially not by harming the family, my wife and children. I am occupied with the film every day, not only when somebody calls me. The film is my everyday passion and joy. I have my studio, my equipment. I have the film in my blood.

- What was the hardest part of your career and of your life?

I felt really hard when my wife went ill after she gave birth of our younger daughter, and then when our older daughter went ill. That was difficult, everything else is entertainment. Especially if you work the profession that you like - than that is entertainment.

- When did you have the best time in your career?

I think that that moment is yet to come. I think that my next film will be the best moment in my career.

- Tell us something about your work with . Was the difference between the professionalism of the Americans and Yugoslavs different; were there any different standards?

Perhaps the most decisive moment in my career was when I worked with Peckinpah. Then I understood that the professional standards considering cinema for us in Yugoslavia and for those in USA are the same. You can understand that while you are amongst them on an equal (or at almost equal) basis. Questions, demands and the professional response to those challenges, regardless of whether behind or in-front of the camera, while film-making, are the same for all film-makers in the world, but the working conditions are not. Peckinpah loved his actors and he Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 6 took care a lot so that they will have all the best conditions for a good interpretation. I think that the producers were less satisfied, but at the end they all wiped their mustaches… To be on the set together with James Mason, makes you understand that the successfulness of some scene equally depends from each one of us. Perhaps you are a small but significant part of the whole machinery equally treated by the camera, the director, the screenplay writer, the makeup artist… Than you know that you are a part of the team. I was astonished by the way they were using the film (the negative). That was an unthinkable waste for the then socialist rationality of the needs. We were averagely using 25 000 meters of negative for a standard feature. Peckinpah spend 150 000 meters for filming the “Cross of Iron” 1977.

Sam Peckinpah on the set of “Cross of Iron” Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 7

Sam Peckinpah and on the set of “Cross of Iron”

- What are your impressions of ? Do you think Oja Kodar is underestimated artist?

I did not have a personal meeting with Orson Welles . I am very sorry for this since I had the possibility to be with and act with him on the same movie “The Secret Life of Nikola Tesla”. I think he is one of the best film-makers aside Charlie Chaplin. I don’t know Oja Kodar, but I also don’t believe that she indebted the art of film-making.

- “Banovic Strahinja” was filmed on locations in Macedonia. What was then your impression of our country? Describe us Franco Nero as a colleague.

Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 8

Unfortunately I was not at the shooting in Macedonia. This is my first time in Skopje and in Macedonia, as a member of the jury for the competition program for the best feature. While my father was still alive and was in his full strength we planned a tour through Macedonia through the passages of the Macedonian partisans, a visit to his surviving friends… but unfortunately this was not realized. Maybe I will succeed in acquiring this by preparing a big project on this theme. I don’t have any special memories that are connecting me with Franco Nero although we made at least two films together, as far as I remember. From the movie “Banovic Strahinja” I was mostly impressed by Stole AranĎelović, aside my dear friends Rade Šerbedžija and the late Dragan Nikolić.

- You were casted in “Alpensaga” and “Das Dorf an der Grenze”? Can you call these as serious engagements or they were- something that in the region is called- “the stall”?

When I remember that period of my career I think of them as serious projects. To this I have to add the third film “Auf die Strecke” on which I worked on up till the end of 1980. The first were actually the TV series in which I played in the last 6th episodes together with Relja Bašić. We played the Russians that stayed in Austria till 1955, something similar to something else, as there were the Americans, English and French- as liberators in “The Third Man”. This period is finely described but from the point-view of the Americans. Orson Welles is another story. “Das Dorf and den Grenze” was about the theme of the Slovenians in Koruška; the minority problems in a surrounding of the nation of majority at the border of the then existing Yugoslavia (Slovenia). Nobody talks about this anymore… while Juga2 existed the status of the Slovenian minority in Austria was respected. I don’t know in which amount this is the case today? The third film speaks about the situation after Tito’s death through the eyes of the Yugoslav gastarbaiters3 on their way home in their parent republics. The action happens in front of the border of SFRJ in Austria, in the endless line of the cars of the returners, which are mixed with those of the Turks, Arabs… The question of the post- Tito Yugoslavia is being opened through the eyes of the little man with all his worries and fears. Only through these 3 films are being touched the issues of the

2 Nickname for Yugoslavia 3 Guest worker on German Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 9 all key questions through which we tragically passed in the nineties. That is why I think that these were the serious projects.

- How did you get engaged to work with Umberto Lenzi on “Times of War”? Describe us the working atmosphere on this film comparing it with “Private War”- how was to work aside with such a big star as Joe Dallesandro?

They asked for actors that were speaking English . I had some experience in this. Those 2 films we filmed in Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1987 and 1988, before the broke of Juga. The production favors were given by “Bosnia Film”. I have to admit that I do not remember of Joe Dallesandro as an actor nor partner. Nobody from their site remained in my memory. In one of those 2 films played Boris Dvornik. I remember that we screwed on the theme of the screenplay and roles. I forgot the details. I never saw those movies. Than I was also thinking that they were heavy shit-bags and that they probably were being used as a back projection of the CNN reporters when they were reporting from the battlegrounds in Bosnia, Mostar and whole Balkan. The film scenes were designed on the generally known places of the inter-junctions of the civilizations, cultures and religions (Christianity and Islam) in Sarajevo at Baščaršija, in Mostar around the old bridge, in Počitelj, IliĎa, Trebević, at the wellspring of the river Buna in the house of the dervish… Even at this time to me it was kind of strange that nobody from us, the leading actors, wore any signs, nor uniforms, but all of us were fully armed and in the civilian clothes?! The shooting and the burning of the places was filmed on the locations that later in the war in Bosnia became the main centers of the conflict. I think that this was settled and paid by the Amers4. I have to look those films so that I can be sure that all that is heavy manipulation in which we were just small marionettes.

4 Nick name for the Americans Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 10

The evacuation scene of the commandos from the house of the dervish at the wellspring of river Buna near Mostar - Do you think that in a way “War and Remembrance” predicted the war in Yugoslavia? Were you aware while filming that this series will become such a big hit? Do you think that it was positive that some scenes were so cruel regarding the existing TV standards? I think yes…

I think that the movies “Times of War” and “Private War” directly served the announcement of the war in Bosnia that was created in a way that later were created the wars in Libya and Syria, but for the serial “War and Remembrance” I would not give such a roll- in predicting the war in Yugoslavia. About the notion what is cruel, rough or inadequate for the TV standards I don’t have serious opinion, since TV in its own nature is a fear of the standard-treachery- of the morality and ethics.

- Did you sense that Branko Lustig is going to become a big star?

I wasn’t so clairvoyant. Undoubtedly he was very successful during the time of in Yugoslavia. He had knowledge, very successful co-production projects with Hollywood and big Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 11 ambition. One serious country, like Yugoslavia was in its golden time in the late 70’s, was a good guarantee for any Hollywood production. Branko Lustig had and knew much of this; and realized it through Jadran Film. Jadran Film obtained large foreign currency amounts for the then existing Yugoslavia. The good thing in his collaboration with Hollywood was the fact that he was Jewish. One should know that the Jews do not entrust their money to non-Jews, especially not in the projects like Spielberg’s “Schindler’s List”. He was the best “guard” of their money. The film “Gladiator” was a logical consequence towards the new Oscar for production. It is strange that he didn’t express himself as a successful Hollywood producer, nor he helped the Croatian cinematography. Obviously he does not have confidence in the authors from Croatia or in the projects that are designed here. But I see he loves Croatia.

- Is there something about you in the film “The Golden Years” considering the Croatian Spring?

I have nothing to do with the Croatian Spring from 1971. Firstly, then I was filming a lot. I was outside Zagreb, filming “Walter Defends Sarajevo”, traveling. I wasn’t influenced by the student upraise anyhow, but I have to admit that later too I had no understanding for this, for its core, for its nationalistic story. With the establishing of Croatian state in 1990 and 91 we received a certificate about everything that we were promised by Čičak, Budiša, Veselica in the Croatian Spring 1971. We received the democrature instead of democracy; we gained large social and civilizational layering, diminishing of the system of values on all levels, the civilizational catastrophe.

- Unfortunately the filmmakers in Europe depend on the state owned film-funds. Do you like the way they function? It seems always the worst screenplays get financed…

I don’t like it but there is no other option. The private initiative could not exist since the entire society is in the phase of the primary accumulation of the capital, actually the robbery. Politics holds the money and does not care for the culture in its essence, for it the culture is being used as a paravane. By the strengthening of the democratic institutions, with transparent and standardized system of the values of the evaluations we could reach the important and quality projects and films. We can only dream of this in our surrounding. Somewhere the hope glitters as Interview with Igor Galo|PyramidUSD|24.10.2017| 12 it was the case with the Bosnian film “Men Don’t Cry”. But that happens rarely and with the connection of many lucky circumstances.

- Which are the projects you are working on and the ones you are preparing?

Many years already I am connecting documents, films, photographs, statements with which I plan to make a long documentary about the Festival of the Yugoslav Fiction Films in Pula, under its working title: “Good Bye Yugo Festival, Good Bye Yugo Film, Good Bye Yugoslavia - See You in the Next War”. The next war already happened, as I predicted it in 1991. For the time being I am hoping that what will happen to me - is going to be a film about it.

Igor Galo, Pula, 22.10.2017

Igor Galo with the interviewer Igor Pop Trajkov