From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

Hello, Amazing Woman on Fire! It’s Debbie Phillips, and I hope you’re doing great! I love being able to meet you here and introduce you to fabulous guest experts whose inspiration and strategies support you and uplift you in your own life. If you’re joining us for the very first time, welcome! And congratulations on becoming part of this new women’s movement to supercharge the way we support each other. This way, when one of us succeeds, we all succeed. As we say, “The rising tide lifts all boats.” As a Women on Fire member, there is always a gentle hand at your back to support you through a trying time, to provide you resources when you need them the most, to let you know, “Hey, you go, girl!” So no matter what your dreams and goals are, there is a hand at your back 24/7 at Women on Fire. And I know, for a lot of us, losing weight, being fit and feeling our healthiest is often on the perennial goal list. Today, I am so proud to introduce you to a real inspiration and a real dynamo! A woman who came up with her own plan that helped her to lose — and keep off — 90 extra pounds! You may know two-time Emmy Award winner Mara Schiavocampo if you watch ABC News and, in particular, Good Morning America, where she is a correspondent. She has a brand new book, Thinspired: How I Lost 90 Pounds — My Plan for Lasting Weight Loss and Self-Acceptance. In it, Mara discusses the very real problem of food addiction and how the physical and psychological tolls of overeating can diminish our quality of life. She describes in vivid and empowering detail how she has chosen to stand up to the power that food once held over her life. In addition to her very busy job, Mara is a wife, a mom to three-year-old Nina, and she mentors others to lose weight. Let’s find out how she did it, why she did it, and the lessons she learned along the way. And Mara will be taking your questions, too! Welcome to Women on Fire, Mara Schiavocampo! Hi! Mara: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here and talk to you! Debbie: Well, the moment I learned your book was coming out I pre-ordered it, and I knew, before it even arrived, I want to interview her! Mara: Thank you for that. I appreciate the support. When you tell a story that’s so personal, it’s always a little bit scary. The fact that it’s been received so well and supported just makes me feel so great. 1

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Debbie: I totally understand that and so do Women on Fire. A lot of our women have written stories about their lives. It takes a lot of courage to step out, and it is amazing. Mara, I just have to tell you. Every single person that I have mentioned your book to has said, “Oh, I’m going to get a copy, and I’m going to get one for my mother or for my sister.” Mara: I love that. Multiple copies! Debbie: We’re on it. We’re Women on Fire! Mara: I love it.

Mara’s Background and Work as a TV Journalist

Debbie: Let’s talk a little bit about you. I’d love to know about your background. I know your father is Italian. Mara: Yes, my father is Italian, first generation. He came here for college and never left. My mother is African-American. She is from Boston. I am the youngest of three; I have an older brother and an older sister. Now I live in New York with my husband and my daughter. I’m originally from Maryland, right outside of D.C. Debbie: Where did you go to college? Mara: I did my undergrad at UCLA. So I went clear across the country for school. Then I did my master’s degree at the University of Maryland, College Park. Debbie: Did you always know you wanted to be on TV news? What was the trajectory of your career? Mara: That’s such a funny story because I ended up in television by accident. I knew I wanted to be a journalist; I really wanted a job that would allow me to write for a living. I applied to several graduate schools, and it just so happened that on the application to the University of Maryland, where I ended up going, I checked the wrong box. The box had the question “What program do you want to go into? Print or broadcast?” I think I may have done it online, and I checked the broadcast box by accident. So that’s how I ended up in the TV program, and I wasn’t happy about it. I was determined to get back on the print track, but then they set up an internship for me at CBS News in New York. It was my first time in a 2

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

television newsroom, and I just loved it! So I stayed with it and that’s how I ended up here. Debbie: Wow! Meant to be, right? Mara: Yes, life is so funny. Serendipitous twists and turns. I find that is what life is all about — the things you can’t plan and don’t plan. Debbie: That’s for sure. What kinds of stories do you most love covering? Mara: I like everything from the silly to the serious. I am very much kind of a candy-and- spinach girl. I really do get a lot of satisfaction from doing serious stories, whether that’s reporting on an earthquake or an aftermath of a disaster or conflict zones. Those experiences are very rewarding, and I love to share those stories. But then I also love shoes and fashion and fun stuff and celebrity coverage and the silly and the salacious. I think that that’s OK because I think a lot of people are like that. There are different parts of your personality, and you see them differently. Debbie: Absolutely. And Good Morning America is such a perfect place to be able to explore all of those. Mara: It absolutely is. Debbie: And I can’t let you get by without telling us what’s it like to work with Robin Roberts and George Stephanopoulos. Were you there when Diane Sawyer was there? Mara: I wasn’t there when Diane Sawyer was there. I’m coming up on my first year at Good Morning America. One of the questions I get most often is, “How is Robin?” Everybody wants to know that. And I will tell you that Robin is exactly what you would expect her to be and you would hope her to be. She is no different off camera than she is on camera. She is warm. She is kind. She is caring. She is fun. When you work in television news, you meet a lot of superstars, and very few of them are what they appear to be. She is absolutely the real deal. Debbie: So nice to hear. I also want to ask you about role models growing up. Who were your role models to becoming who you are today? Mara: That’s such an interesting question. When it comes to professional role models, I always really admired people who spend a lot of time in the field. I looked up to Ann Curry. I looked up Richard Engel, Bob Simon. I watched 60 Minutes voraciously. This was pre-

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

motherhood when I could sit down for an hour on Sundays and watch TV uninterrupted. [laughter] Debbie: Now you do it at midnight on Hulu, right? Mara: Right. Exactly. That’s the DVR catch-as-catch-can. But I always looked up to journalists who went into the field, those who went into difficult situations and told the stories that were most important in the world. Debbie: One thing stood out for me — I just have to tell you this — right away when you and I first started corresponding, is that you get things done. It just did not feel like you’re somebody who procrastinates. Am I right about that? Mara: I think it’s a function of my job. I’m so used to working on deadlines. Deadlines, for me, are a daily thing, often multiple times a day. There’s Good Morning America, there’s World News Tonight, there’s Nightline. There are all these shows I’m working on, so I absolutely do everything right now. And that bleeds over into my life. So I have a mantra: “Eat when you can; sleep when you can; pee when you can.” It’s not limited to those three things. When I have an opportunity to do something, I do it right in the moment. Because it’s like I need to get it done and get it over with. I’m very detail-oriented and that helped a lot in writing the book because I gave myself deadlines. Like, I have to get this chapter done by this day — boom, boom, boom. And I turned in my manuscript on time, and I just got it done. I don’t brag about it. It’s more just a function of training because the last 15 years I’ve had to live and die by deadlines. Debbie: Right. And congratulations for getting that done on time because that kind of attitude is what gets things done. We have a little mantra here: “Think it, do it.” But I’m going to add yours. I like that, too. Mara: Yes. And the other one that I use all the time is “It doesn’t have to be good. It has to be done.” Sometimes perfection can be the enemy of completion. You put all this pressure on yourself to do something perfectly, and you just don’t do it because of that. Debbie: Right. Mara: So I really give myself permission to do something awful but get it done. Then after you’re done, you can tweak it and improve it and then make it a masterpiece. But usually 4

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

nothing ever starts out perfect.

Gaining Awareness of Conditioning About Food

Debbie: Awesome. Love it! OK, so I am sitting here with the most beautiful shining picture of you on the cover of this absolutely inspiringly gorgeous book, and I want to talk about your book. Like so many of us, you were just a girl when someone started commenting on your eating habits and your weight. I often tell this story to Women on Fire: I think was eight or nine years old when my grandmother took me to dinner with her friends. I was the only one who had dessert, and it was my very favorite — strawberry shortcake. I was so shocked that no one else was having dessert. One of the women said to me, “Oh, enjoy it now because next year you have to be on a diet.” I remember mostly feeling sad because none of the women were enjoying dessert, and yet they were looking longingly at mine. I want to know your own coming of awareness story around this whole issue of food. Mara: For me it’s kind of sad because I think that the way I was conditioned to think about food and weight is the opposite of what children should be taught. I had a family member who was very hard on me. I believe this person had the best of intentions and didn’t want me to develop a weight problem. I was a little bit chubby. When I look back on pictures now, as a mother, it’s nothing I would consider alarming if my daughter were that same size and shape. But I was a little chubby, certainly not thin, and this person was determined to fix it. So I was forced to diet. I was forced to weigh in every week in front of them. If I lost weight, I would get a reward. The reward was often food, which creates a really terrible relationship with food and is very confusing for a child. For example, if I lost weight, I would get to have ice cream that night for dessert. Debbie: Wow. Mara: And if I gained weight, I would be punished. Those weigh-ins were awful. They were humiliating. My food was always monitored around the clock. Whenever I was eating, that person was saying, “Your portions are too big” or “You’re making the wrong choices.” So what ended up happening is I started eating in secret.

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

Debbie: Sure. Mara: Because it was the only opportunity for me to eat in peace. Even on Thanksgiving, my food was being monitored. So I would sneak food into my room, and I would lock the door and eat all of it as fast as possible because it was my window to do that. That set up a lifetime cycle for me of binging in secret. As a child, that was really intoxicating for me. It was so freeing. It was the only time that I could relax and really enjoy those indulgences. So what ended up happening is that as an adult it caused serious problems. I developed an eating disorder in my early 20s, which led to depression. Even when things weren’t that dire, I just had a very unhealthy relationship with food. I abused food for most of my adult life. I know that I can trace that directly to my childhood experience. Debbie: Yes. So how did you unravel all of this? Mara: How did I unravel? Debbie: You explain it beautifully in your book, but I just wanted to hear from you. Mara: What happened was, when I started working, I felt a lot of self-imposed pressure as a first-time working adult. In my early 20s, I got my first on-air job. I was seeing myself on air, and it really freaked me out. We’ve all had the experience of seeing a photo or maybe somebody shoots video of you on their cell phone, and when you see yourself from the outside, you are a little bit shocked. You think, “Is that really what I look like?” When you work in television, you have the exact same experience when you start out. Now I’m used to seeing myself, so it doesn’t bother me at all. I see myself on TV every day. But when I first started working on air, it really freaked me out. I felt very uncomfortable and very insecure. So I started coping with the pressures by binge eating. It was hours and hours every single day of eating. It was going from one store to another to Burger King to pizza to McDonald’s and consuming thousands of calories in a few hours. Then I would go home, and I was beat, like the food coma. Then I would wake up and I would do it again. I’d go back out. It was terrible because I was not in control, and what is so awful about having an eating disorder is that you have no control. I didn’t want to be doing that. I would beg myself to stop. I would beg God to help me stop. It was a beast that had the power over me. And the beast was ravenous, and the beast always won the argument. Of course I started gaining weight, and I 6

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

looked worse on camera. It was a really out of control dark time for me. Debbie: Did you have any support around it at all? Or was it just a conversation going on in your own head? Mara: It was so secret. There were very few people, if anybody, who knew about it at the time. Very few people even knew about it when the book came out. Some of the closest people in my life just learned of this for the first time because there is a lot of shame in that. I didn’t want anybody to know. I didn’t want to tell them. You want to present this impression to the world that you are in control, and doing what I was doing is the opposite of control. I’d eat an entire box of ice cream sandwiches and that felt shameful to me. My message to anybody who is going through this is that it is not shameful. But I felt a lot of shame about it. I didn’t talk to anybody about it. It would have been impossible for me to get help. Also, at this time, I didn’t realize it was an eating disorder. I felt like it was a failure of will, a failure of character. I wish I would have known that it’s a problem a lot of people have and that there is treatment for it. I would have absolutely loved to have gotten treatment. I wanted help. Debbie: Right. So what did you finally do and what did you finally figure out worked for you? Mara: It was interesting because when I submitted the manuscript, the editor said, “I need more detail on how you got better.” I really couldn’t provide much because I don’t know. I say it was the grace of God that saved me. What I know is that slowly — and when I say slowly, I mean it took about two years to get out of it. That irresistible urge to binge diminished to where it would become less frequent, and when it came, it wasn’t as strong. My outlook on life started to get better. Life started to creep in. I was optimistic about certain things. At one point I looked up and the worst was behind me. I wish I had a prescription for someone who is going through this. The best I can say is keeping it to yourself is probably the worst thing you can do. You should talk to somebody about it because there are people who are trained to help with this. I just didn’t know that. Debbie: Right. Were you able to talk to your husband? At this point, was he your boyfriend or your fiancé or were you… Mara: He was my boyfriend at the time. It was very hard for me to articulate because I 7

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

really didn’t understand what was going on. Now, with the gift of maturity and distance of age, when I am abusing food, I know exactly what’s going on: Something else in my life is bothering me. I can think, “What’s bothering me? Why am I doing this?” Sometimes I revert back to old behaviors; it doesn’t mean it keeps me from behaviors completely, but at least I understand now what’s happening. I’m able to articulate to him as well. He’s very aware of it. He’ll see me doing certain things and he’ll say, “You OK?” I don’t have to say a word to him. But if he sees me doing something that I don’t normally do, he is very attuned to that because he understands that is how I deal with my disappointments and discouragements and pain. At the time, though, he didn’t understand, and I didn’t know how to articulate it and it just wasn’t an issue. We were in our early 20s, and it was like, “Let’s eat the whole pizza. Why not?” He was eating a whole pizza because that’s what 24-year-old guys do. I was eating it because I was coping with my pain. It was my drug. But it wasn’t a thing that we realized was bigger than me. Debbie: So there wasn’t any moment or big epiphany when somebody said something to you? It was just maturity and a recognition? We always say at Women on Fire that having awareness of an issue is 90 percent of the problem being solved. Mara: Absolutely. It is. When I heard about binge eating — it got classified in 2013 — I thought, “That’s why I couldn’t do it on my own.” It’s like somebody dealing with any mental illness, and I do consider binge eating to be a form of mental illness. You can’t fight it on your own. You need help for that. I wish I would have known that. Debbie: And as you pointed out so beautifully in the book, our brains establish patterns, and unless we break those patterns, our brains are going to keep operating the same way. That’s a terribly simplistic explanation of what you accurately described in the book. Mara: Those patterns and habits are a way to help you because you don’t want to have to think about everything. You would be exhausted. But they can also work against you. When you are constantly repeating negative patterns, you literally entrench pathways in your brain for doing the same things over and over again. You can change those pathways, but it takes effort and work. But when you establish a habit, your brain pathways change. So this is very powerful about all of that. 8

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

Mara’s Magic Formula

Debbie: Something else you talked in the book about — and there’s probably not a woman listening to this who doesn’t identify with this — you tried everything from prepackaged, vacuum-sealed food to joining what you called a “food cult” where they serve food in restricted portions. What was the thing you landed on that worked for you? Because “Mara’s Magic Formula” is different from all these other things. Mara: It is absolutely different. What killed me was that I really wanted do the right thing. I wanted to live a healthy lifestyle and in the process shed the weight. I generally wanted health, but I went about it in completely the wrong way. Everything that I ate was packaged. I would do packaged, diet, frozen meals. That’s what I would always eat for lunch and dinner. Always. If I were going to have a snack, it would be like a little fruit cup. I even got my vegetables from a can of vegetable juice. I would start the day with a packaged low-fat bagel or English muffin or something. Now I know that all of that packaged processed food is full of sugar and chemicals. No wonder my body didn’t respond well to it for years. Humans are not made to eat things that are so full of sodium and sugar and chemicals. What I’ve learned now is that you have to have a clean diet to have lasting weight loss and lasting health. What I mean by “clean” is two things: First, I try to eat things as close to their natural state as possible. I eat fruits and vegetables. I eat nuts. I eat beans. I eat chicken and fish. That’s really about it. If I’m going to eat packaged food, it’s not going to be processed. Almonds are packaged, but there’s nothing wrong with almonds. Technically, brown rice is packaged, right? You buy it in a package, but there’s nothing wrong with brown rice. If I can’t read the ingredients on the label and understand them, I’m not eating it. That’s the first thing in terms of clean eating. Second, I believe this to be a myth, but there is this prevailing wisdom out there that you can eat anything in moderation. How often do we hear that? I think that sets a lot of people up for failure and discouragement. Because guess what? I can’t eat certain things in moderation. We’ve all had the experience of telling ourselves we are going to eat a half-cup of ice cream, which is one serving, right? And then you finish the whole pint. You’re sitting

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

there with an empty pint and you’re feeling lousy about yourself. The reason you can’t eat one chip or you can’t eat one cookie is that for a lot of people specific foods are triggers for them and they can’t stop. There is an awful lot of food engineering and money spent by the food industries to make sure that you can’t eat just one. Their money is made by you eating a whole bag and then buying another one. I think when you set yourself up to eat in moderation, you are setting yourself up for failure. What I did that was key was to identify the foods that I knew I couldn’t eat in moderation. I had to be really honest with myself about what my problem foods were and then eliminate them completely. When I did that, I had to go through an initial detox, which was awful; it was excruciating. Once I went through that and my habits were changed, losing weight became like rolling downhill. All of my obstacles were gone. I don’t count anything. I don’t do portion sizes. I don’t count points. I don’t count calories. I just eat — as long as it’s not my forbidden trigger foods, because I’m not going to abuse those things. Debbie: Tell us what your trigger foods are. I realize this is just special to you, but this is a lesson for everybody to think about trigger foods. Mara: I’m glad you mentioned that because that’s an important point. What is key is to be honest about what your triggers are. My triggers are flour — any flour product — dairy and candy, because I have a big problem with sugar, and wine. The only reason wine is on the list is I’m Italian. Debbie: You’re Italian! [laughter] Mara: The only reason wine is on the list is because it’s just too easy to drink a whole bottle of wine. Once you’ve drunk a whole bottle of wine, it’s too easy to go to your other triggers. Because who doesn’t want cheesy bread when you’re drunk, right? Debbie: Right. Listeners are going to die laughing because there is a funny point about that coming up later! I love what you drink instead of the wine because this is a great strategy. Mara: I do straight liquor. That surprises a lot of people, but I have found straight liquor to so effective because I want to drink socially. I want to have a good time. It helps me relax and connect with friends. But when I’m drinking a vodka on the rocks with a wedge of lime, it takes me a nice amount of time to finish because I sip on it slowly. I might have two over the 10

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

course of the night. Maybe three on a wild and crazy night. It’s very different than drinking five bottles of wine with your girlfriends. This just happened the other night. We were celebrating because the book has been doing really well. I had some friends over to celebrate, and we started opening bottles of champagne. We went through five bottles of champagne in about an hour and a half. It is so easy to do that. Debbie: Right. Mara: Now, if you’re doing that on a regular basis, it’s going to totally derail your weight loss. Debbie: Right. So how did having your daughter in 2011 change things for you? And is that when your weight loss started? Mara: Yes, that’s when it started. I was 50 pounds overweight before I got pregnant. I’m 5- foot-3 and I weigh 140 pounds today. I was 190 pounds before I got pregnant and then I gained 40 pounds in pregnancy. So when I gave birth, I was 230 pounds. Before I got pregnant, I was a size 14, but I was OK with it. I would have liked to be smaller, but I wasn’t so unhappy that I was motivated to change anything. I felt pretty good about myself. I looked pretty fly, so I was OK with it. When I had my daughter, I was 40 pounds heavier and I couldn’t fit into any of my clothes. I was very determined and focused on getting that weight off. No excuses. No outs. I wasn’t down about it, and I wasn’t self-loathing. I was in a really good space and focused on my mission. I was going to lose that baby weight before I went back to work. And I did. In the process, I learned some really important lessons about weight loss. Then when I hit my pre-baby weight, I said, “Why don’t I go for three more pounds? Let me see if I can do three more.” I did that all the way down to my goal weight. Debbie: I love that! You did it in three-pound increments. Mara: Yes, small goals are also key because saying “I’m going to lose 50 pounds or 40 pounds” is so overwhelming. When you lose one pound, you can’t celebrate if you have 39 more to go. If you tell yourself that your goal is three pounds — you’re going to lose three pounds over the next two weeks — that is so attainable. Then when you step on the scale and you’ve lost a pound, you feel really good about it because your one-third of the way there. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. I tell people all the time: Set a goal of 11

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

one step. Just take that one step and that will get you going. Debbie: Nice. Would you say a little bit about Mara’s Magic Formula on the focus of 70 percent food, etc.? I love that! Mara: I came up with the formula after the fact. I didn’t really have a plan when I started trying to lose the baby weight. I knew I had to lose it, and I was really focused. You have to lose a lot of weight before people notice. If you are someone who keeps losing weight and nobody is noticing, don’t be discouraged. Nobody really noticed I had lost weight until I had lost 60 pounds. Think about that! Debbie: Wow! Because you’re short, too, like me! Mara: Nobody said a word, and then all of a sudden there was a tipping point when everybody noticed at the same time. So now, every day, multiple times a day, people are stopping me in the halls at work, emailing me, old friends are messaging me on Facebook and everybody had the same question, “What are you doing?” I wanted to provide an honest answer, so I sat down and thought, “What have I been doing?” I looked back on all of the lessons that I had learned, and that’s where the formula comes from. I realized that I was successful in losing weight by focusing 70 percent of my efforts on foods — cleaning up my diet and keeping a clean diet — and 10 percent of my efforts on sleep, which was a big surprise to me. When I was well rested, I was less hungry. This is supported by research, but I didn’t know that at the time. I just knew that when I was well rested the food became easier. Another 10 percent of my efforts were on planning — you have to grocery shop and you have to cook. The last 10 percent was on exercise. It was a really big surprise for me that exercise played such a small role. I always gave exercise and food an equal amount of my effort. What I learned is that food is far more important. Exercise is really good for you for so many reasons, but it’s a small part of weight loss. That is supported by doctors, nutritionists and personal trainers; people who work in fitness will tell you the exact same thing. It’s important for people to know that because I think when people actually start an exercise routine, and it doesn’t help their weight loss much, they get discouraged and stop it. Debbie: Right. And it also can make you really hungry and that often blows up the whole plan. 12

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

Mara: Exactly. A lot of people gain weight when they start an exercise routine. That can be extremely discouraging and confusing. My advice to people who are just starting out in trying to change their lifestyle and lose weight is to not work out at first. Changing the food is hard enough. That’s going to take a lot of work. Just focus on changing the food until you get comfortable with that — it might be two or three months. Give yourself permission to make the big change first and then start an exercise routine. Debbie: I really love that 70/10/10/10 plan. That’s a good one. Before we get to questions that several of our Women on Fire have for you, I wanted to ask you about the huge percentage of children in the United States who are overweight. What do you say to parents who are struggling to help their children lose weight? I know a number of parents who are pretty fit, and their children are considerably more overweight than their parents. Mara: It’s something that I think about a lot. My daughter does not have a weight problem, but she certainly could. So how would I handle that? As a child who I think was handled the wrong way — my weight problem was handled the wrong way — what I came to realize is that children are not in control of their lives. They don’t work. They don’t make any money. They don’t go grocery shopping. They don’t plan their schedule. If your child is overweight, and I’m not suggesting the parents are to blame, but they certainly are the ones who have the most power in changing that. So what I would suggest is for you to look at the environment the child is in. What kinds of foods are in your home? Are you leading by example? Are you modeling good eating behavior? Or are you contributing to the problem by eating terribly and then telling your child to “do as I say and not as I do”? What kinds of activities is the child involved in? If you pick them up at 4:00 and drop them off at soccer, they have no choice but to run around. It’s not up to them. I would suggest that you really focus on changing the environment and the modeling behavior the child is seeing; make sure the child gets into activities, and set realistic expectations. The great thing about kids is that they grow taller. So even if they’re maintaining their weight, that’s going to slim them out over time. And just trying to lose a small amount of weight over five to six years, by the time they reach adulthood, is going to definitely take place where they’re at a normal weight. Debbie: Great point. Quick question: Did you ever go into therapy for your weight issues?

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

Mara: That’s interesting. I tried to. I went to one therapist who just was not the right fit for me. Then I went to another therapist who I really enjoyed working with. I still chat with him from time to time when I feel like I need to. But that was not part of the success of my journey. Everybody is different. I think therapy is great. It helped me in a lot of other ways, but it did not help me with my weight. Debbie: Got ya. Thank you. I wanted to tell you a very quick story. Last weekend I ran into two women working together at a makeup counter. One of them, Jackie, had lost 70 pounds, and the other one, Susan, had lost 150. I cried when I heard their stories. It was so inspiring how they were helping each other. Jackie looked great and I didn’t think she had any more to lose at all, but she said, “I can’t yet think of myself as a thin person. I don’t know how to do that.” I wondered for you, too, who once carried 90 extra pounds, do you think of yourself as a thin person? Or do you have those moments where you’re like, “Uh oh, I can’t quite squeeze into that chair.” Mara: I’ll be honest. I don’t think of myself as thin. The title of book is Thinspired and I want people to be “thinspired,” but I don’t think of myself as thin. Your mind plays tricks on you, right? When I fit into something, I still don’t believe it. I think, “Well, this must run really big or maybe this is vanity sizing.” I can’t catch up to that. I think it will be a lifelong struggle because so many impressions are formed in childhood. Early on I was told I was heavy and it was shameful, and those are the prevailing feelings. Those are the demons that I fight. Debbie: I’m so happy you’re talking about this. I think it is so powerful and so important. Oprah is such a good example, too, because I think, at this point, she said, “My only demon is this weight issue.” As a child she was told, “We come from heavy people.” So talk about a powerful, harmful prevailing notion! I know this will release the shame and release the pain for a lot of people just being able to talk about it. Mara: I’m really glad you say that because I believe I have come to learn the same thing. I felt so much shame about it. It was so deeply ingrained that I wasn’t even aware of it. There is a story I tell in the book where I was living alone. I didn’t have any roommates, and I had eaten a box of ice cream sandwiches. I was in the process of hiding all the wrappers in the 14

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From Self-Acceptance to Lasting Change Featuring Mara Schiavocampo ABC News Correspondent, Author, Wife, Mom

trash, and I had to stop and ask myself, “Why am I hiding this? Who am I hiding it from?” I realized I had all of this shame about it. What I have come to learn, and what I hope that people who may be struggling with this get from my story, is that there is no shame in it. There is no shame in being overweight. There is no shame in being someone who abuses food. What it means is that you have turned to a specific coping mechanism to deal with the stresses of life. Everybody does that. There is no shame in that. The difference is that, when you’re overweight, the world can see it, and the world often judges it. So people should not feel ashamed. I am here to say I have abused food. I have had a terrible relationship with food, and I probably will again because these demons don’t die. You fight them your whole life. But I’m not ashamed of it anymore, and I don’t think anybody else should be either. Debbie: That’s beautiful. Thank you. I love it. OK, we’re going to go to our questions from our members. Mara: I love that!

Mara Answers Questions from Women on Fire

Debbie: Thanks! Mary Lou Peters from Mackinaw City, Michigan, a wonderful artist, asks, “How has your life changed since your weight loss?” Mara: It’s changed for the better in so many ways but none of the ways I expected. If you would have asked me prior to the loss how I thought my life would be different after losing 90 pounds, I would have said the best thing would be shopping and getting into a size 6 jeans and strutting around looking cute. But that is the lowest thing on my list of good things that have happened. The things for me are the energy that I feel when I wake up in the morning and as I go through my day. The fact that when I’m feeling this unpleasant situation — stress — I actually cope with it as opposed to just stuffing it down with food, which only makes it worse. I do a lot of work on that: prayer, meditation, yoga, and even shopping, which isn’t very high-minded but it’s something that makes me feel good in the moment that I don’t have to regret later. Debbie: Yes.

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Mara: I love, love, love exercising. One of the greatest gifts of this journey has been connecting with my body. And I don’t love exercise because it makes me smaller or it makes my muscles more defined. I love exercise because it makes me feel so good — and not just in the moment, but for the entire day. I did a boot camp class this morning. I worked my butt off, and I still feel a high from it! That runner’s high is a very real thing, and that’s a great high because it’s not one that’s coming from drugs. It’s not one that’s going to give you a hangover. It’s very pure. Those are the ways that my life has changed. It has just been so fantastic! Debbie: That is fantastic! Elizabeth Cassidy from Glen Head, New York, asks, “What do you do when temptation is lurking around?” Mara: I pray. That is the honest truth. Prayer has been a huge part of this journey for me. I made a vow to God that I was going to stop abusing food, and I don’t want to disappoint God. And I also fear God, so I don’t want to encourage that. I try to do my best to behave. I take it very, very seriously. I don’t view it as a little slip or an indulgence. I view it as potentially the beginning of the spiral that could take me months or years to get out of. I give it the weight it deserves. It’s not just a nibble of something. It could lead to something much more dire. Then, I also try to be smart. It’s one of the times you can think your way through these challenges. Let’s say you’re at a kid’s birthday party, and you can’t avoid the fact that they have cupcakes and cake and pizza there. Just try to stay away from it for as long as possible. You don’t have to be the mom serving everybody cake, and then you’re smelling the icing and you’re touching it. That’s awful. Just try to be as smart as possible about avoiding those temptations. Debbie: Great. I love that! I saw that video clip of you in which there’s an array of foods, and you say, “I just look at that, and I’m like, no. I don’t even go there.” Mara: They don’t even exist! Debbie: They don’t exist. They’re dead to me! [laughter] Mia Gray of Boise, Idaho — you’re going to laugh at this — said, “Did you cut out all alcohol? I’m good on food, but one glass of red wine and suddenly cheesy bread seems OK!” Mara: Yes. I totally feel you 100 percent! That’s the double whammy of alcohol. It not only 16

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messes you up in terms of the calories that come from the alcohol, which are the worst. They are totally empty calories, with wine, in particular, and again I’m Italian, so it hurts me to say this. Wine is the worst because it’s just drinking sugar. That’s one part of it, and the second part of it is that once you’re drinking and probably having a good time and loosening up, so you’re much less resistant to your other temptations. That’s when you start ordering truffle fries and the chocolate cake and all that stuff. So I try to stick with straight liquor. Debbie: You are so right. Good for you. You inspired me today about that. Kathi Brown Wright from Port Charlotte, Florida, wrote in and said, “So many people lose weight only to regain it. However, it appears (because I’ve shared your video with all the Women on Fire) that, now that you’ve reached your goal, helping others to take off weight is helping you to stay on track for not gaining weight back. Is that true?” Mara: Yes, that is very true. It’s almost like I’m continually reminding myself. In the process of sharing my story with other people, every time I’m counseling someone else through a challenge or a temptation, I’m reminding myself of those lessons as well. One of the things that I address in the book is about when people ask, “Why did you want to write the book?” I genuinely want to share my lessons with other people so that I can help them embark on this journey of success as well. But I also wrote the book because I needed to remember those lessons. For me, it’s a lessons guide. In a year, five years, 10 years, whenever I happen to struggle with this issue, I want to be able to turn to it and to know what works. Debbie: Beautiful. Holly Getty from New York City — right in your neighborhood —asks, “Have you forgiven the relative who was so cruel to you about weighing you and monitoring your food? If so, would you share the process that you found for forgiveness in your heart?” Mara: I have forgiven them. I have forgiven them because I have come to realize that holding on to anger and resentment and disappointment is poisoning yourself. Forgiveness has nothing to do with the other person. You’re not letting them off the hook. You’re not keeping them unaccountable. You are freeing yourself from that prison. I did not want to be in that prison anymore. I also believe that they had good intentions. I believe their intentions were to keep me from a lifetime of obesity. They just went about it in completely the wrong way. Everything I’m not makes me everything I am. I went through that. It was terrible. It 17

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created some problems for me in my life, but it’s part of who I am and everybody has some cross to bear. Debbie: That is for sure. OK, so just a couple of last questions here. What are you on fire about for the future? You have this book behind you and it’s doing well and it’s a great book. What’s next for you? What are you on fire about? Mara: It’s funny you should ask. I’m really excited about expanding my family. That’s my goal for the future. I did not really want to have kids. My husband really wanted children. Not that he talked me into it, but he made a compelling argument, and I said OK, fine. I’ll do it for you. I keep telling him now, “I am so glad I listened to you.” Because being a mom has been the single greatest joy of my life. I would say I want a million babies, but I’m 35 so I think time is running out for me. [laughter] Debbie: I don’t know. Modern technology might do something about that. That’s wonderful to hear. Mara: I certainly would love a few more. Debbie: Ahh. And before we say goodbye to you, is there anything you would like to say to the Women on Fire members who are listening right now – especially those who may be struggling to lose weight and live a healthy lifestyle? Mara: What I will say is that your persistence is victory. Losing weight and maintaining it is a huge challenge. And I say that not to discourage anyone but so that they can be prepared for the battle. If you were to go into a blizzard in a bikini, you probably wouldn’t be able to stand outside for very long. When you go out into a blizzard, you go out with your snow boots and gloves and muff and parka; you go out prepared for the challenge. I want people to be prepared for the challenge it takes to change your lifestyle. Persistence is victory. If you give up, you’ll never get there. Just keep going. If something’s not working, you can figure it out. You just have to power through the disappointment and the discouragement and figure out what will work. Because once you crack that code of what works for you, what your trigger foods are, what you need to eliminate, the exercise you generally love to do — once you crack that code — the road will open up in front of you. And that is my hope for everyone. Debbie: That is so excellent! Thank you. It’s so beautiful. I have a favorite quote of yours in 18

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the book—and there were many. I laughed and I got a little teary over some things, but the quote I love so much, Mara, was when you said, “I’m not clocking the time until my diet ends. This is not a race. It’s a well-paced walk through life.” That just totally makes your point with what your wonderful words of wisdom are to our precious women. Mara: There is so much peace in being sane about this because I would rather be heavy and sane than in torture. Being at peace is so much more important than anything else. You have to be at peace with your journey. Thank you for reading the book and for connecting with my story. It means so much. Debbie: Oh, well thank you so much, Mara, for being here and for taking us on your life’s walk with you. Thank you so much, and I really look forward to meeting you in person sometime. Mara: Yes, likewise. We have to figure out when to make that happen! Debbie: I love it! Thanks, Mara! Good luck to you. Mara: Thank you so much!

After Interview

Debbie: Hello, Woman on Fire! It’s Debbie, and I’m back after having interviewed Mara Schiavocampo. As you know, this is the time that we do our After Interview. Today, I am over-the-moon because I have a wonderful Women on Fire member here who sat in and listened to the interview with Mara, and she is here in the studio with me. It’s Annamarie Germanio! Hello! Annamarie: Thank you, Debbie. I was so surprised to get this invitation and just honored to be here. And it couldn’t be a better topic. Debbie: Well, we’re thrilled that you’re here. Let’s just dive right in. What stood out for you in listening to Mara? Annamarie: Well, first off I’m going to be buying the book right away for myself and some family members. I’m very interested in knowing what the detox process was. The fact that so many people have busy lifestyles and they feel that the only way they can do it is packaged 19

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foods, but she describes it as absolutely the wrong way, with all the sugar, salt, and chemicals in it. And I totally agree. It’s really good to know you just need to eliminate your trigger foods. Debbie: That was really powerful. She makes it very clear in the book that it’s so important that you know what yours are. What are your trigger foods? Annamarie: Well, I’m a real estate broker and do some pretty big contracts for vacation properties on an island resort. Whenever I’m in a rush to get a contract done and a little bit nervous to get everything perfect, I sit and eat chocolate chips. So that’s my addiction. Debbie: That’s so funny because when I’m nervous and anxious in that very same situation — although I don’t sell real estate property — I love ice cream, chocolate, and peanuts. [laughter] Those are definitely trigger foods. What else stood out for you that she said? Annamarie: That 70 percent of the plan is f00d. That’s very eye-opening. I have five grandchildren and four new ones now. I want to share this with my daughters so that their children are healthy and develop good food habits and to have the right foods in the house, the right environment and keep them in a lot of activities. Debbie: I thought it was really powerful she said that. Some of this we know or we’ve heard, but it’s just the clarity with which she spoke it. We’ve got a number of health coaches in the Women on Fire membership who are fantastic. I know there is a lot of support with them in our circle. I love her plan. I love the clarity of that 70 percent food, 10 percent rest, 10 percent exercise, and 10 percent planning. She talks in the book about being able to go to her fridge and scan it. She’s developed this really good habit of scanning what she needs to plan for rather than making it a great big deal. She also has recipes in the book that are fantastic. Annamarie: Oh, I can’t wait! Debbie: I know. I’m so excited! Well, I want to say a little bit about you, Annamarie, because I met you from our very dear beloved mutual friend, Stedman Graham, who is known to most of the world as Oprah’s rock and boyfriend. But to us, he has just been an amazing friend. I’d love to hear, how did you meet Stedman? Annamarie: I went to high school with Stedman. He was our star basketball player. My most memorable experiences with him are when he was our drum major and I was head 20

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majorette. He used to sit behind me and joke around in band study hall. Then I didn’t see him for maybe 25 or 30 years after high school. We reconnected at a 4-H fair, actually. He has been a hero in our lives. He’s like an uncle to my daughters. He’s just full of inspiration. Many years ago I said to him when we would talk on the phone, “Stedman, you need to package your message and get it out there on tape, because you just inspire everybody who knows you.” Debbie: And he did. He listened to you. And he actually told me about you. He said, “Annamarie was the smartest girl in our school.” Annamarie: Not really. Debbie: He told me. And I know some of our Women on Fire — he’s now working a lot in San Diego — have been running into him in San Diego so that’s been fun. I’m so happy that you’re here, and it’s so good to see you. You live in Sea Isle City, New Jersey, most of the time but you also have a part-time place in… Annamarie: Naples. Debbie: Yes. So I get to see you here, which is really fantastic. Annamarie: Wonderful. Debbie: You’ve been a Women on Fire member for quite a while now, and I’d love to hear your experience. I know you went to the retreat last year, but what’s your experience with Women on Fire and being a member? Annamarie: Well, I just never realized that such an awesome group of women was available to me, and Debbie made that all happen. We’re all in various stages of transition. Everyone is very willing to share their stories — the good, the bad, the ugly. And I love the fact that the women who are so successful are so loving, humble and accepting and willing to help others. They give their genuine support and inspiration every day. Debbie: Isn’t that amazing. If you’re not on the private Facebook page, please consider it. We know there are quite a few of you out there who maybe think Facebook will be a lot of work, but just join to get onto this private Facebook group of Women on Fire only and share. Annamarie: It’s wonderful. Every day I just love watching what everybody is saying, and

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every once in a while I join in myself. Debbie: I love it when you do! I notice when you do. So last question really quick: What are you on fire about? Annamarie: To be even more healthy. To just stay as healthy as possible and do all the things I want to do and enjoy life a little bit. Debbie: And you ballroom dance, right? Annamarie: My passion in life is ballroom dancing and tango. Down here in Naples, I can go almost every day of the week. Debbie: Well, I’m here to tell you, she is glowing. She’s on it. She’s on fire. Thank you so much. I’m so happy you’re here. Annamarie: Thank you.

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