· · · · · · · · · · · ·NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD · · · · · · · · PHASE 2 DEVELOPMENT PROJECT PROPOSAL - MARY RIVER IRON · · · · · · · · ORE MINE NIRB FILE NUMBER 08MN053 · · · · · · ·______· · · · · · · · · · · · · · HEARING · · · · · · · · · · · · · · VOLUME 7 · · ·______· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Pond Inlet, Nunavut · · · · · · · · · · · · February 1, 2021 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · TABLE OF CONTENTS ·2 ·3· ·Description· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Page ·4 ·5· ·February 1, 2021· · · · · · · Morning Session· · ·1217 ·6· ·Opening Remarks· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·1217 ·7· ·Submissions by Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers· · ·1223 ·8· ·Organization (Motion) (Mittimatalik Hunters ·9· ·and Trappers Organization) 10· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Sanirajak (Motion)· · · ·1226 11· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) 12· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Arctic Bay (Motion)· · · 1227 13· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) 14· ·Submissions by Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers· · 1228 15· ·Organization (Motion) (Mittimatalik Hunters 16· ·and Trappers Organization) 17· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Clyde River (Motion)· · ·1230 18· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) 19· ·Submissions by Amaruq Hunters and Trappers· · · · 1231 20· ·Association (Motion) (Mittimatalik Hunters and 21· ·Trappers Organization) 22· ·Submissions by Government of Nunavut (Motion)· · ·1233 23· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) 24· ·Submissions by Government of Canada (Motion)· · · 1235 25· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) 26· · by Oceans North (Motion) (Mittimatalik Hunters· ·1237 ·1· ·and Trappers Organization) ·2· ·Submissions by World Wildlife Fund (Motion)· · · ·1241 ·3· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·4· ·Submissions by Nunavut Independent Television· · ·1242 ·5· ·Network (Motion) (Mittimatalik Hunters and ·6· ·Trappers Organization) ·7· ·Submissions by Baffinland Iron Mines· · · · · · · 1244 ·8· ·Corporation (Motion) (Mittimatalik Hunters ·9· ·and Trappers Organization) 10· ·Motion to Enter Exhibits (Baffinland Iron· · · · ·1251 11· ·Mines Corporation) 12· ·Submissions by Qikiqtani Inuit Association· · · · 1254 13· ·(Motion) (Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 14· ·Submissions by Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated· · ·1254 15· ·(Motion) (Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 16· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Pond Inlet (Motion)· · · 1254 17· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 18· ·Submissions by Mittimatalik Hunters and· · · · · ·1255 19· ·Trappers Organization (Motion) (Baffinland 20· ·Iron Mines Corporation) 21· ·Submissions by Community of Igloolik,· · · · · · ·1256 22· ·Igloolik Working Group, Igloolik Hunters and 23· ·Trappers Organization (Motion) (Baffinland 24· ·Iron Mines Corporation) 25· ·Submissions by Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers· · ·1257 26· ·Organization (Motion) (Baffinland Iron Mines ·1· ·Corporation) ·2· ·Submissions by Hamlet of of Sanirajak (Motion)· · 1257 ·3· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) ·4· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Arctic Bay and· · · · · ·1257 ·5· ·Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers ·6· ·Organization (Motion) (Baffinland Iron Mines ·7· ·Corporation) ·8· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Clyde River,· · · · · · ·1258 ·9· ·Nangmautaq Hunters and Trappers Organization 10· ·(Motion) (Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 11· ·Submissions by Amaruq Hunters and Trappers· · · · 1259 12· ·Organization (Motion) (Baffinland Iron Mines 13· ·Corporation) 14· ·Submissions by Government of Nunavut (Motion)· · ·1259 15· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 16· ·Submissions by Department of Justice (Motion)· · ·1260 17· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 18· ·Submissions by Oceans North (Motion)· · · · · · · 1260 19· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 20· ·Submissions by World Wildlife Fund (Motion)· · · ·1262 21· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 22· ·Submissions by Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters· · · · 1263 23· ·and Trappers Organization (Motion) (Ikajutit 24· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 25· ·Submissions by Qikiqtani Inuit Association· · · · 1269 26· ·(Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and ·1· ·Trappers Organization) ·2· ·Submissions by Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated· · ·1273 ·3· ·(Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and ·4· ·Trappers Organization) ·5· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Pond Inlet (Motion)· · · 1274 ·6· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers ·7· ·Organization) ·8· ·Submissions by Mittimatalik Hunters and· · · · · ·1275 ·9· ·Trappers Organization (Motion) (Ikajutit 10· ·Arctic Bay 11· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization) 12· ·Submissions by Community of Igloolik, Igloolik· · 1276 13· ·Working Group, Igloolik Hunters and Trappers 14· ·Organization (Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay 15· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization) 16· ·Submissions by Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers· · ·1277 17· ·Organization (Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay 18· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization) 19· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Arctic Bay (Motion)· · · 1279 20· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 21· ·Organization) 22· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Clyde River (Motion)· · ·1279 23· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 24· ·Organization) 25· ·Submissions by Amaruq Hunters and Trappers· · · · 1279 26· ·Organization (Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay ·1· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·2· ·Submissions by Government of Nunavut (Motion)· · ·1281 ·3· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers ·4· ·Organization) ·5· ·Submissions by Department of Justice (Motion)· · ·1281 ·6· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers ·7· ·Organization) ·8· ·Submissions by Oceans North (Motion) (Ikajutit· · 1282 ·9· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 10· ·Submissions by World Wildlife Fund (Motion)· · · ·1283 11· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 12· ·Organization) 13· ·Submissions by Nunavut Independent Television· · ·1284 14· ·Network (Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters 15· ·and Trappers Organization) 16· ·Submissions by Baffinland Iron Mines· · · · · · · 1284 17· ·Corporation (Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay 18· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization) 19 20· ·February 1, 2021· · · · · · · Afternoon Session· ·1286 21· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization· · 1287 22· ·Questions Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation 23· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Sanirajak (Motion)· · · ·1361 24· ·(Hamlet of Sanirajak) 25· ·Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers· · · · · 1361 26· ·Organization (Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit ·1· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·2· ·Submissions by Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and· · 1362 ·3· ·Trappers Organization (Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic ·4· ·Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·5· ·Submissions by Qikiqtani Inuit Association· · · · 1363 ·6· ·(Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) ·7· ·(Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay ·8· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·9· ·Submissions by Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated· · ·1364 10· ·(Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) 11· ·(Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay 12· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization) 13· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Pond Inlet (Motion)· · · 1365 14· ·(Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural 15· ·Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and 16· ·Trappers Organization) 17· ·Submissions by Mittimatalik Hunters and· · · · · ·1366 18· ·Trappers Organization (Motion) (Hamlet of 19· ·Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) 20· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 21· ·Organization) 22· ·Submissions by Community of Igloolik,· · · · · · ·1366 23· ·Igloolik Working Group, Igloolik Hunters and 24· ·Trappers Organization (Motion) (Hamlet of 25· ·Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) 26· ·(Ikajutit ·1· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·2· ·Submissions by Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers· · ·1367 ·3· ·Organization (Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) ·4· ·(Motion) (Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit ·5· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·6· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Sanirajak (Motion)· · · ·1368 ·7· ·(Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay ·8· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·9· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Arctic Bay (Motion)· · · 1369 10· ·(Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural 11· ·Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and 12· ·Trappers Organization) 13· ·Submissions by Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters· · · · 1369 14· ·and Trappers Organization (Motion) (Hamlet of 15· ·Sanirajak) 16· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Clyde River and the· · · 1370 17· ·Nangmautaq Hunters and Trappers Organization 18· ·(Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) 19· ·(Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay 20· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization) 21· ·Submissions by Amaruq Hunters and Trappers· · · · 1370 22· ·Organization (Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) 23· ·(Motion) (Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit 24· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 25· ·Submissions by Government of Nunavut (Motion)· · ·1372 26· ·(Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural ·1· ·Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and ·2· ·Trappers Organization) ·3· ·Submissions by Department of Justice (Motion)· · ·1374 ·4· ·(Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural ·5· ·Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and ·6· ·Trappers Organization) ·7· ·Submissions by Oceans North (Motion) (Hamlet· · · 1374 ·8· ·of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) ·9· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 10· ·Organization) 11· ·Submissions by World Wildlife Fun (Motion)· · · · 1377 12· ·(Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural 13· ·Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and 14· ·Trappers Organization) 15· ·Submissions by Baffinland Iron Mines· · · · · · · 1378 16· ·Incorporation (Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) 17· ·(Motion) (Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit 18· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · EXHIBITS ·2· ·Description· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Page ·3 ·4· ·EXHIBIT 19 - Written Version of the Oral Motion· ·1244 ·5· ·of the Mittimatilik Hunters and Trappers ·6· ·Organization presented on January 30, 2021 ·7· ·(English) ·8 ·9· ·EXHIBIT 20· - Written Reply of Baffinland Iron· · 1244 10· ·Mines Corporation to the Motion of the 11· ·Mittimatilik Hunters and Trappers Organization 12· ·presented on January 30, 2021 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 ·1· ·Proceedings taken at Atakaalik Community Hall, ·2· ·Pond Inlet, Nunavut. ·3· ·______·4· ·NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD ·5· ·K. Kaluraq· · · · · · · ·Chair of Hearing ·6· ·M. Qumuatuq· · · · · · · Panel Member ·7· ·C. Emrick· · · · · · · · Panel Member ·8 ·9· ·NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD STAFF (POND INLET) 10· ·T. Meadows· · · · · · · ·Legal Counsel 11· ·K. Costello· · · · · · · Executive Director 12· ·K. Gillard· · · · · · · ·Manager, Project Monitoring 13· · · · · · · · · · · · · · and Acting Director Technical 14· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Services 15· ·C. Barker· · · · · · · · Technical Advisor 16· ·P. Evalik· · · · · · · · Environmental Administrator 17· ·B. Beattie· · · · · · · ·Environmental Technologist 18· ·F. Emingak· · · · · · · ·Junior Technical Advisor 19 20· ·NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD STAFF (IQALUIT) 21· ·K. Morrison· · · · · · · Manager, Impact Assessment 22· ·G. Daoust· · · · · · · · Technical Advisor 23· ·E. Adjun· · · · · · · · ·Outreach Coordinator 24· ·O. Evalik· · · · · · · · Senior finance Officer 25 26 ·1· ·NUNAVUT IMPACT REVIEW BOARD STAFF (BY PHONE) ·2· ·T. Arko· · · · · · · · · Technical Services ·3· ·S. Amuno· · · · · · · · ·Technical Advisor ·4 ·5· ·PROPONENT ·6 ·7· ·BAFFINLAND IRON MINES CORPORATION (IQALUIT) ·8· ·B. Armstrong· · · · · · ·Legal Counsel ·9· ·C. Kowbel· · · · · · · · Legal Counsel 10· ·M. Lord-Hoyle· · · · · · Vice-President, Sustainable 11· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Development 12· ·L. Kamermans· · · · · · ·Director, Sustainable 13· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Development 14· ·J. Tigullaraq· · · · · · Head of Northern Affairs 15· ·A. Moore· · · · · · · · ·Manager, Government Relations 16· · · · · · · · · · · · · · and Public Affairs 17 18· ·BAFFINLAND IRON MINES CORPORATION (POND INLET) 19· ·B. Penney· · · · · · · · President, Chief Executive 20· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Officer 21· ·U. Hanson· · · · · · · · Vice President, Community and 22· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Strategic Development 23 24· ·BAFFINLAND IRON MINES CORPORATION (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) 25· ·L. Duke· · · · · · · · · Legal Counsel 26· ·A. McLeod· · · · · · · · EDI Environmental Dynamics Inc. ·1· ·E. Malcolm· · · · · · · ·Sustainability Specialist ·2· ·C. Murray· · · · · · · · Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation ·3· ·C. Moore· · · · · · · · ·Intrinsik ·4· ·C. Devereaux· · · · · · ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation ·5· ·C. Merkosak· · · · · · · Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation ·6· ·C. Legault· · · · · · · ·Fednav Limited ·7· ·D. Jarrat· · · · · · · · Stantec ·8· ·D. Del Cardo· · · · · · ·Genessee Wyoming Canada ·9· ·E. Malcolm· · · · · · · ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation 10· ·F. van Biljon· · · · · · Hatch Engineering 11· ·F. Pittman· · · · · · · ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation 12· ·J. McClintock· · · · · · Wood Plc 13· ·J. Krizan· · · · · · · · EDI Environmental Dynamics Inc. 14· ·M. Winterbottom· · · · · Golder Associates Ltd. 15· ·M. Clark· · · · · · · · ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation 16· ·M. Austin· · · · · · · · JASCO Applied Sciences 17· ·M. Setterington· · · · · EDI Environmental Dynamics Inc. 18· ·P. Abgrall· · · · · · · ·Golder Associates Ltd. 19· ·P. Osbourne· · · · · · · Golder Associates Ltd. 20· ·P. Rouget· · · · · · · · Golder Associates Ltd. 21· ·R. Cook· · · · · · · · · Knight Piésold 22· ·S. Wallace· · · · · · · ·Stantec 23· ·S. Borcsok· · · · · · · ·Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation 24· ·S. Douville· · · · · · · Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation 25· ·T. Keane· · · · · · · · ·Fednav Limited 26· ·T. Sewell· · · · · · · · Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation ·1· ·V. Corning· · · · · · · ·Stantec ·2 ·3· ·INTERVENORS ·4 ·5· ·NUNAVUT TUNNGAVIK INCORPORATED (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) ·6· ·A. Yuan· · · · · · · · · Legal Counsel ·7· ·N. Gonzalez· · · · · · · Legal Counsel ·8· ·J. Eetoolook· · · · · · ·Interim President ·9· ·D. Lee· · · · · · · · · ·Wildlife Biologist 10· ·P. Irngaut· · · · · · · ·Director 11· ·B. Dean· · · · · · · · · Assistant Director 12· ·D. Kunuk· · · · · · · · ·Chief Operating Officer 13· ·H. Uniuqsaraq· · · · · · Chief Administrative Officer 14· ·C. Lyall· · · · · · · · ·Executive Assistant 15 16· ·QIKIQTANI INUIT ASSOCIATION (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) 17· ·L. Land· · · · · · · · · Legal Counsel 18· ·P.J. Akeeagok· · · · · · President 19· ·J. Ottenhof· · · · · · · Director, Lands and Resource 20· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Management 21· ·R. Paton· · · · · · · · ·Director, IQ & Engagement 22· ·S. Williamson-Bathory· · Special Advisor 23· ·L. Barnabas· · · · · · · Portfolio Lead 24· ·A. Macdonald· · · · · · ·The Firelight Group 25· ·R. Olsen· · · · · · · · ·The Firelight Group 26· ·S. Leech· · · · · · · · ·The Firelight Group ·1· ·J. Higdon· · · · · · · · Freshwater and Marine Specialist ·2· ·B. Stewart· · · · · · · ·Freshwater and Marine Specialist ·3· ·J. Ash· · · · · · · · · ·Arktis Solutions ·4· ·N. Jewitt· · · · · · · · Arktis Solutions ·5· ·M. Hemp· · · · · · · · · Qikiqtani Inuit Association ·6· ·C. Spencer· · · · · · · ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association ·7 ·8· ·HAMLET OF POND INLET (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) ·9· ·J. Arreak· · · · · · · · Mayor of Pond Inlet 10· ·F. Tester· · · · · · · · Technical Advisor 11· ·C. Sangoya· · · · · · · ·Pond Inlet Hunters and 12· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Trappers Organization 13· ·J. Merkosak· · · · · · · Resident Advisor in IQ 14· ·J. Alooloo· · · · · · · ·Elder Advisor 15· ·L. Quassa· · · · · · · · Community Representative 16· ·J. Kiyoopik· · · · · · · Youth Representative 17 18· ·MITTIMATALIK HUNTERS AND TRAPPERS ORGANIZATION 19· ·(REGISTERED SPEAKERS) 20· ·E. Murphy· · · · · · · · Legal Counsel 21· ·K. Julta· · · · · · · · ·Legal Counsel 22· ·M. Bradley· · · · · · · ·Legal Counsel 23· ·J. Zyla· · · · · · · · · Woodward & Company 24· ·L. Mar· · · · · · · · · ·Woodward & Company 25· ·E. Ootoovak· · · · · · · President 26· ·E. Inuarak· · · · · · · ·Vice President ·1· ·A. Hanson-Main· · · · · ·Technical Advisor ·2· ·Dr. V. Vergara· · · · · ·Marine Expert ·3· ·E. Solomon· · · · · · · ·IQ Expert ·4· ·S. Elverum· · · · · · · ·IQ Expert ·5· ·J. Simonee· · · · · · · ·Community-Based Monitoring Witness ·6· ·V. L'Hereault· · · · · · Community-Based Monitoring Witness ·7 ·8· ·IGLOOLIK WORKING GROUP AND IGLOOLIK HUNTERS AND ·9· ·TRAPPERS ASSOCIATION (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) 10· ·P. Ivalu· · · · · · · · ·Chairperson, Igloolik Working 11· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Group 12· ·M. Recinos· · · · · · · ·Igloolik Working Group 13· ·J. Quassa· · · · · · · · Igloolik Working Group 14· ·J. Malliki· · · · · · · ·Igloolik Hunters and Trappers 15· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Association 16· ·D. Irngaut· · · · · · · ·Igloolik Hunters and Trappers 17· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Association 18· ·P. Awa· · · · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Igloolik 19· ·N. Piugattuk· · · · · · ·Elder Advisor 20· ·M. Ivalu· · · · · · · · ·Community Representative 21· ·W. Immaroitok· · · · · · Youth Representative 22 23· ·HAMLET OF SANIRAJAK (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) 24· ·J. Audlakiak· · · · · · ·Mayor of Sanirajak 25· ·L. Primeau· · · · · · · ·Chief Administrative Officer 26· ·V. Curley· · · · · · · · Hamlet of Sanirajak ·1· ·D. Arvaluk· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Sanirajak ·2· ·T. Kuppaq· · · · · · · · Hamlet of Sanirajak ·3· ·J. Kaernerk· · · · · · · Community Representative ·4 ·5· ·HAMLET OF ARCTIC BAY AND IKAJUTIT HUNTERS AND TRAPPERS ·6· ·ASSOCIATION (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) ·7· ·L. Idlout· · · · · · · · Legal Counsel ·8· ·O. Eegeesiak· · · · · · ·Hamlet of Arctic Bay ·9· ·M. Koonoo· · · · · · · · Arctic Bay Hunters and 10· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Trappers Association 11· ·O. Naqitarvik· · · · · · Elder Advisor 12 13· ·HAMLET OF CLYDE RIVER AND CLYDE RIVER HUNTERS AND 14· ·TRAPPERS ASSOCIATION (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) 15· ·J. Natanine· · · · · · · Hamlet of Clyde River 16· ·W. Bernauer· · · · · · · Hamlet of Clyde River 17· ·S. Aipellee· · · · · · · Clyde River Hunters and 18· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Trappers Association 19· ·O. Audlakiak· · · · · · ·Clyde River QIA Women 20· ·S. Palituq· · · · · · · ·Elder Advisor 21· ·J. Palituq· · · · · · · ·Youth Community Representative 22 23· ·AMARUQ HUNTERS AND TRAPPERS ASSOCIATION (REGISTERED 24· ·SPEAKERS) 25· ·M. Mike· · · · · · · · · Amaruq Hunters and Trappers 26· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Association ·1· ·Jeetaloo Kakee· · · · · ·Elder Advisor ·2 ·3· ·HAMLET OF RESOLUTE BAY (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) ·4· ·M. Idlout Amarualik· · · Resolute Bay Hunters and ·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Trappers Association ·6· ·S. Idlout· · · · · · · · Hamlet of Resolute Bay ·7 ·8· ·GOVERNMENT OF NUNAVUT (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) ·9· ·E. Stockley· · · · · · · Legal Counsel 10· ·M. Kinney· · · · · · · · Legal Counsel 11· ·N. O'Grady· · · · · · · ·Avatiliriniq Coordinator 12· ·G. Karlik· · · · · · · · Assistant Deputy Minister 13· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Department EDT 14· ·J. Onalik· · · · · · · · Deputy Minister EDT 15· ·S. Pinksen· · · · · · · ·Assistant Deputy Minister DOE 16· ·J. Elliott· · · · · · · ·Project Manager Impact Assessment 17· · · · · · · · · · · · · · DOE 18· ·J. Ringrose· · · · · · · Qikiqtani Regional Wildlife 19· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Biologist 20· ·E. Zell· · · · · · · · · Manager, Environmental Assessment 21· · · · · · · · · · · · · · and Regulation EDT 22· ·A. Robinson· · · · · · · Manager, Land Use and 23· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Environmental Assessment DOE 24· ·S. Atkinson· · · · · · · Wildlife Consultant 25· ·A. Cyr-Parent· · · · · · Senior Advisor 26 ·1· ·NORTHERN PROJECTS MANAGEMENT OFFICE (REGISTERED ·2· ·SPEAKERS) ·3· ·L. Dyer· · · · · · · · · Director General, Northern Projects ·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Management Office ·5· ·A. Shafi· · · · · · · · ·Technical Support, Northern ·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Projects Management Office ·7· ·S. Qazi· · · · · · · · · Technical Support, Northern ·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Projects Management Office ·9· ·S. Hitchcox· · · · · · · Northern· Projects Management 10· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Office 11 12· ·DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) 13· ·S. Gruda-Dolbec· · · · · Legal Counsel 14 15· ·CROWN-INDIGENOUS RELATIONS NORTHERN AFFAIRS CANADA 16· ·(REGISTERED SPEAKERS) 17· ·S. Dewar· · · · · · · · ·Director, Resource Management 18· ·K. Henrikson· · · · · · ·Regional Director General 19· ·F. Ngwa· · · · · · · · · Manager, Impact Assessment 20· ·A. Chaikine· · · · · · · Senior Environment Assessment 21· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Specialist 22· ·D. Abernethy· · · · · · ·Regional Socio-economic Analyst 23· ·M. Hopkins· · · · · · · ·Director General, Natural 24· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Resources and Environment 25· ·K. Pawley· · · · · · · · Manager, Environmental Assessment 26 ·1· ·J. Walsh· · · · · · · · ·Senior Environmental ·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Assessment Analyst ·3· ·J. Neary· · · · · · · · ·Environmental Assessment Analyst ·4· ·K. Ma· · · · · · · · · · Regional Environmental ·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Assessment Coordinator ·6 ·7· ·FISHERIES AND OCEANS CANADA (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) ·8· ·G. Bernard-Lecaille· · · Senior Biologist, Fish and ·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Fish Habitat Program, Arctic 10· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Region 11· ·A. Sorckoff· · · · · · · Fish and Fish Habitat Protection 12· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Biologist 13· ·A. Beattie· · · · · · · ·Team Lead, Mining Oil and Gas 14· · · · · · · · · · · · · · North 15· ·M. Marcoux· · · · · · · ·Marine Mammal Expert, DFO Science 16· ·K. Howland· · · · · · · ·Aquatic Invasive Species Expert, 17· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Oceans Canada Science Group 18· ·T. Hoggarth· · · · · · · Regional Director, Aquatic 19· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Ecosystems 20· ·C. Matthews· · · · · · · Research Scientist 21· ·J. Paulic· · · · · · · · Science Advice Liaison 22· ·J. Shead· · · · · · · · ·Aquatic Invasive Species Biologist 23· ·K. Hedges· · · · · · · · Research Scientist 24· ·P. Hall· · · · · · · · · Environmental Specialist 25· ·S. Bailey· · · · · · · · Research Scientist 26· ·S. Nudds· · · · · · · · ·Physical Scientist (Oceanographer) ·1· ·S. Ferguson· · · · · · · Research Scientist ·2· ·S. McLennan· · · · · · · Manager, Arctic Projects and ·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Governance ·4· ·T. Seal· · · · · · · · · Junior Project Officer ·5 ·6· ·PARKS CANADA (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) ·7· ·A. Stoddart· · · · · · · Environmental Assessment ·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Scientist ·9· ·J. Chisholm· · · · · · · Ecologist Team Leader 10· ·A. Maher· · · · · · · · ·Resource Conservation Manager, 11· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Nunavut Field Unit 12· ·J. Bastick· · · · · · · ·Environmental Assessment 13· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Specialist 14· ·J. Boon· · · · · · · · · Field Unit Superintendant, 15· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Nunavut Field Unit 16· ·L. Jonart· · · · · · · · Project Manager, Tallurutiup 17· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Imanga National Marine 18· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Conservation Area, Nunavut 19· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Field Unit 20 21· ·TRANSPORT CANADA (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) 22· ·J. Barker· · · · · · · · Regional Environmental Advisor 23· ·A. Gudmunson· · · · · · ·Regional Manager Environmental 24· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Programs 25· ·J. Johar· · · · · · · · ·Manager Marine Safety and Security 26· ·J. Cram· · · · · · · · · Manager Rail Safety Engineering ·1· ·M. O'soup Bushie· · · · ·Major Resource Development ·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Projects & Aboriginal Consultations ·3· ·ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE CANADA (REGISTERED ·4· ·SPEAKERS) ·5· ·A. Graham· · · · · · · · Environmental Coordinator ·6· ·M. Fairbairn· · · · · · ·Regional Director ·7· ·B. Asher· · · · · · · · ·Technical Expert, Air Quality ·8· ·R. Holt· · · · · · · · · Technical Expert, Air Quality ·9· ·M. Parsons· · · · · · · ·Technical Expert, Air Quality 10· ·C. Kabanguka· · · · · · ·Environmental Emergencies Expert 11· ·J.F. Dufour· · · · · · · Technical Expert, Water Quality 12· ·K. Patel· · · · · · · · ·Technical Expert, Water Quality 13· ·M. Tobin· · · · · · · · ·Technical Expert, Water Quality 14· ·A. Wilson· · · · · · · · Technical Expert, Water Quality 15· ·R. Ejeckam· · · · · · · ·Senior Mining Project Officer 16· ·N. Cote· · · · · · · · · Executive Director 17 18· ·HEALTH CANADA (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) 19· ·M. Gale· · · · · · · · · Regional Manager 20· ·K. Buset· · · · · · · · ·Impact Assessment Program 21· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Manager 22· ·W. Wilson· · · · · · · · Impact Assessment Coordinator 23· ·T-T. Nguyen· · · · · · · Engagement Specialist 24· ·N. Lyrette· · · · · · · ·Environmental Specialist 25 26 ·1· ·NATURAL RESOURCES CANADA (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) ·2· ·P. Unger· · · · · · · · ·Senior Environmental ·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Assessment Officer ·4· ·R. Johnstone· · · · · · ·Deputy Director, Explosives ·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Safety and Security Branch, ·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Lands and Minerals Sector ·7 ·8· ·IMPACT ASSESSMENT AGENCY OF CANADA (REGISTERED ·9· ·SPEAKERS) 10· ·Y. Stoimenova· · · · · · Policy Analyst 11· ·T. Frezza· · · · · · · · Manager, Legislation 12 13· ·NUNAVUT INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NETWORK (REGISTERED 14· ·SPEAKERS) 15· ·I. Gilles· · · · · · · · Legal Counsel 16· ·L. Tulugarjuk· · · · · · Chairperson, Executive Director 17· ·Z. Kunuk· · · · · · · · ·Founder and Director 18· ·C. Kunnuk· · · · · · · · Nunavut Independent Television 19· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Network 20· ·L. Lipsett· · · · · · · ·Technical Advisor 21· ·M. Malliki Jr.· · · · · ·Nunavut Independent Television 22· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Network 23 24· ·WORLD WILDLIFE FUND (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) 25· ·A. Dumbrille· · · · · · ·Lead Specialist, Marine Shipping 26· · · · · · · · · · · · · · and Conservation ·1· ·P. Okalik· · · · · · · · Lead Specialist, Arctic ·2· ·B. Laforest· · · · · · · Senior Specialist, Arctic ·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Species and Ecosystems ·4· ·E. Keenan· · · · · · · · Specialist, Eastern Arctic ·5 ·6· ·OCEANS NORTH (REGISTERED SPEAKERS) ·7· ·C. Debicki· · · · · · · ·Legal Counsel ·8· ·A. Joynt· · · · · · · · ·Senior Policy Advisor ·9· ·G. MacDonald· · · · · · ·Arctic Research Specialist 10· ·J. Jones· · · · · · · · ·Scripps Institution of Oceanography 11 12· ·INTERPRETERS/TRANSLATORS 13· ·V. Dewar· · · · · · · · ·Language Translator 14· ·R. Katsak· · · · · · · · Language Translator 15· ·T. Arnajaallak· · · · · ·Language Translator 16· ·J. Peter· · · · · · · · ·Language Translator 17· ·J. Tucktoo· · · · · · · ·Language Translator (Iqaluit) 18 19· ·A. Vidal, CSR(A)· · · · ·Official Court Reporter 20· ·S. Burns, CSR(A), RPR,· ·Official Court Reporter 21· ·CRR 22· ·______23 24 25 26 ·1· ·(PROCEEDINGS COMMENCED AT 9:01 AM) ·2· ·Opening Remarks ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Good morning, everyone. ·4· ·Welcome back to Day 7 of the Nunavut Impact Review ·5· ·Board's resumed public hearing associated with its ·6· ·assessment of Baffinland Iron Mine Corporation's ·7· ·Phase 2 development proposal related to the Mary River ·8· ·iron ore mine project. ·9· · · · Before we return to questions to Baffinland on the 10· ·marine environment, we will conclude the oral hearing 11· ·in respect of motions, including objections and 12· ·requests for the Board's procedural directions that we 13· ·started on Saturday evening before the interruption to 14· ·our video feed in Iqaluit caused us to adjourn. 15· · · · I hope everyone enjoyed a break on Sunday and has 16· ·returned refreshed as we begin our second week of this 17· ·hearing. 18· · · · So before we have the opening prayer, Jeetaloo 19· ·Kakee is requesting if he could open the prayer.· Open 20· ·the meeting with a prayer. 21· ·MR. KAKEE:· · · · · · · ·Good morning. 22· ·Opening Prayer 23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Jeetaloo. 24· · · · As everyone who has been attending here in Pond 25· ·Inlet and in the hub in Iqaluit, that due to the 26· ·COVID-19 pandemic, the Nunavut Impact Review Board has ·1· ·put in place additional procedures for those attending ·2· ·in person to keep us all safe and in compliance with ·3· ·local public health requirements so that the Board can ·4· ·have 80 people join us in Iqaluit and 100 people in ·5· ·Pond Inlet. ·6· · · · As you can see, we are all wearing masks inside ·7· ·both venues and the Board has posted all enhanced ·8· ·COVID-19 practices in English and Inuktitut on the ·9· ·doors as you enter the hall, and we require everyone to 10· ·comply with these requirements so we can ensure we all 11· ·remain safe and healthy. 12· · · · The pandemic has also limited the ability of 13· ·people to travel to Iqaluit or Pond Inlet so people are 14· ·joining us via video and audio links.· Wherever you are 15· ·and however you are participating in these public 16· ·hearings, the Board appreciates you taking the time to 17· ·join us during these important meetings. 18· · · · The COVID-19 pandemic has also meant that 19· ·approximately 200 people are joining the proceedings 20· ·either on Zoom or by telephone.· Although we have had a 21· ·few small technical glitches last week, we are grateful 22· ·that everyone can join the Board on whatever platform 23· ·you're able. 24· · · · For all parties no matter where you are, please 25· ·wait for me to turn the microphone over to you, as I am 26· ·often giving the interpreters time to finish before the ·1· ·AV technicians switch to your feed.· When you speak, ·2· ·please say your name and identify the organization that ·3· ·you will be speaking for, and be mindful of our ·4· ·interpreters as you go so that we can ensure the Board ·5· ·has an accurate record of these proceedings. ·6· · · · Please note that simultaneous interpretation of ·7· ·the proceedings is available throughout these meetings. ·8· ·Receivers are available from the sign-in table at each ·9· ·in-person location, and language-specific information 10· ·has been provided for those participating online. 11· · · · In Pond Inlet and Iqaluit, the receivers are using 12· ·the following channels:· Channel 0, floor; Channel 1, 13· ·English; Channel 2, Inuktitut.· If you are at an 14· ·in-person location and are having trouble hearing the 15· ·proceedings, please let one of the NIRB staff know, and 16· ·they'll assist you.· Any issues with the online feed 17· ·can be communicated to Keith Morrison. 18· · · · For those attending in person in Pond Inlet and 19· ·Iqaluit, there are sign-in sheets at the table as you 20· ·come in.· Please sign in and provide contact 21· ·information to ensure the NIRB can provide an accurate 22· ·record of hearing participants and allow for adherence 23· ·to public health measures. 24· · · · The Nunavut Impact Review Board is required to 25· ·gather contact information for everyone attending in 26· ·Iqaluit and Pond Inlet.· This information will only be ·1· ·used for contact-tracing purposes. ·2· · · · In addition to the video feed for participants on ·3· ·Zoom, the Board thanks the Nunavut Independent ·4· ·Television Network for arranging to broadcast the live ·5· ·feed from Pond Inlet and Iqaluit through the Arctic ·6· ·Co-op and Shaw Direct Cable TV throughout the territory ·7· ·and beyond through Uvagut TV.· These additional ·8· ·broadcasting measures enable community members to view ·9· ·the technical sessions and community roundtable of the 10· ·public hearing from their own homes. 11· · · · There are also several media outlets including 12· ·CBC, Nunatsiaq News, and The Canadian Press all 13· ·following these proceedings via Zoom. 14· · · · The Board appreciates the interest and 15· ·participation by the media covering these proceedings 16· ·and extending the proceedings to audiences within and 17· ·outside Nunavut.· However, the Board reminds all 18· ·participants that because the Board is engaged in the 19· ·decision-making process for the Phase 2 development 20· ·project, the Board and staff will not provide comments 21· ·or answer specific questions about this matter until 22· ·the Board's public hearing report is issued publicly. 23· · · · All media and commenters are advised to refrain 24· ·from making assumptions or assertions about the 25· ·procedural actions or future decision-making by the 26· ·Panel that do not reflect the actual record. ·1· · · · For the safety and convenience for everyone here ·2· ·with me in Pond Inlet, the washrooms are located ·3· ·outside this room in the lobby area, and exits are ·4· ·located through the main doors to the lobby and on both ·5· ·sides of the room; however, to exit the room during ·6· ·breaks, we ask that you use the main lobby entryway. ·7· ·In Iqaluit, NIRB staff will give you information about ·8· ·the washrooms and emergency exits at your location. ·9· · · · Throughout these hearings, I will be chairing the 10· ·meetings from the hall here in Pond Inlet.· To my left 11· ·is Catherine Emrick, to my right Madeleine Qumuatuq. 12· ·We are the three-member Panel responsible for 13· ·decision-making in respect of the Phase 2 development 14· ·project. 15· · · · The Panel is supported in Pond Inlet, Iqaluit, and 16· ·on the phone by several of the Board staff and our 17· ·legal counsel.· In the interest of time, I won't 18· ·reintroduce them all to you, but if you need assistance 19· ·please look for the people with the NIRB badges, and 20· ·they'll help you out. 21· · · · As I mentioned last week, the Board recognizes how 22· ·challenging it is -- it has been for parties to prepare 23· ·for and participate in these proceedings.· We 24· ·particularly thank the Elders who have chosen to share 25· ·their knowledge with us and have stayed through the 26· ·very long days and evenings of the public hearing so ·1· ·far. ·2· · · · We ask the community roundtable participants to be ·3· ·patient as the technical sessions continue into the ·4· ·second week.· We understand that you are anxious to ·5· ·pose your questions and share your views with the ·6· ·Board, but the technical sessions remain to be ·7· ·completed. ·8· · · · The Board will provide further guidance regarding ·9· ·modifications to the agenda that may be required 10· ·following the Board's completion of decision-making in 11· ·respect of the oral and written motions to be discussed 12· ·this morning. 13· · · · Before we proceed to the discussion of motions 14· ·including objections and requests for procedural 15· ·direction, please note that the Nunavut Impact Review 16· ·Board expects everyone participating in these important 17· ·meetings to avoid personal attacks on other parties or 18· ·the Board and staff and to respect the directions of 19· ·the Panel. 20· · · · While the Board understands that there are many 21· ·opinions being expressed and that parties may have 22· ·strongly held but conflicting views, making comments 23· ·that demean or belittle others is unacceptable and does 24· ·not show respect for the Board or the spirit of 25· ·hospitality and community that has been afforded to us 26· ·in Iqaluit and here in Pond Inlet. ·1· · · · Now I return to the responses from registered ·2· ·intervenors and Baffinland to the motion of the ·3· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization to ·4· ·extend the timeline of the public hearing to allow ·5· ·intervenors to ask all their remaining questions of ·6· ·Baffinland in oral form, present their interventions in ·7· ·full, and allow intervenors to be questioned in full ·8· ·without restriction in oral form, while not restricting ·9· ·the time available for the community roundtable. 10· · · · And now I return to the replies to the motion of 11· ·the registered intervenors and Baffinland. 12· ·Specifically, the Board is asking whether your 13· ·organization supports the motion, does not support the 14· ·motion, or takes no position with respect to the motion 15· ·and why. 16· · · · For parties who are represented by legal counsel, 17· ·I will be asking your legal counsel to reply.· I note 18· ·that last night the Board received a written motion -- 19· ·sorry, a written reply to the motion of the 20· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization, and 21· ·Baffinland indicated that they would provide their 22· ·reply in oral format this morning as well. 23· · · · Starting where we left off on Saturday, a response 24· ·from the Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers Organization, 25· ·Okalik Eegeesiak. 26· ·Submissions by Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers ·1· ·Organization (Motion) (Mittimatalik Hunters and ·2· ·Trappers Organization) ·3· ·MS. EEGEESIAK:· · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·4· ·Okalik Eegeesiak from Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers ·5· ·Association -- Organization. ·6· · · · Again, the Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers ·7· ·Organization does not have legal counsel.· As a ·8· ·technical advisor for the Sanirajak Hunters and ·9· ·Trappers Organization, at the outset, I expressed the 10· ·limited resources that hunters and trappers 11· ·organization has, the limited capacity to analyze 12· ·documents, the limited capacity to navigate through 13· ·documents in the NIRB -- Nunavut Impact Review Board 14· ·registry, and limited time to review technical 15· ·materials presented by the -- by Baffinland. 16· · · · These issues were discussed in December when I, 17· ·with Lori Idlout, legal advisor for the Ikajutit 18· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization, travelled to 19· ·Sanirajak to work with the hunters and trappers 20· ·organization and the municipality. 21· · · · And these capacity issues have been discussed and 22· ·brought up by the North Baffin working group.· It is 23· ·taking the precautionary approach for the Nunavut 24· ·Impact Review Board to accept the request by the 25· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization to 26· ·extend the technical hearings, but not at the expense ·1· ·of the community roundtables.· This will provide the ·2· ·Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers Organization additional ·3· ·time to continue work -- to work for the consideration ·4· ·of the harvesters and communities they represent. ·5· ·(INTERPRETER BELL).· This will provide the Sanirajak ·6· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization additional time to ·7· ·continue to work for the consideration of the ·8· ·harvesters and community they represent. ·9· · · · The hunters and trappers organization and 10· ·intervenors were -- are repeatedly asked to respect the 11· ·Board process.· Now the Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers 12· ·Organization is asking the Nunavut Impact Review Board 13· ·to respect the role and responsibility of hunters and 14· ·trappers organizations and the constitutionally 15· ·protected harvesting rights by extending the technical 16· ·hearings and more fully extend and apply the duty to 17· ·consult and accommodate. 18· · · · As one of the institutes of public governments, 19· ·the Nunavut Impact Review Board, I believe, was created 20· ·to also represent, accommodate, implement, and respect 21· ·Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit.· In other words, we should be 22· ·working together, and I believe -- I believe the -- the 23· ·introduction of an oral motion is an example of how we 24· ·are improving, all of us.· Yes.· As technical advisor 25· ·for the Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers Organization, I 26· ·support the motion to extend the hearings as well as ·1· ·provide intervenors the time to ask questions.· Thank ·2· ·you, Madam Chair. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Sanirajak, Louis ·4· ·Primeau. ·5· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Sanirajak (Motion) ·6· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·7· ·MR. PRIMEAU:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·8· · · · The Hamlet of Sanirajak is in full support of the ·9· ·motion made by the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers 10· ·Organization and additional arguments made by fellow 11· ·intervenors.· In particular, completion of the 12· ·technical meetings without limitations on questions 13· ·will help to adequately inform community roundtable 14· ·members in attendance on the many issues.· This is 15· ·especially true given that only the proponent was 16· ·provided time to present its case during the community 17· ·roundtable sessions. 18· · · · As the Government of Canada will be relying on 19· ·these hearings for purposes of the required deep 20· ·consultation on the project, it is essential that they 21· ·provide adequate participant funding to intervenors to 22· ·ensure that they can fully participate in this 23· ·important process. 24· · · · The Hamlet of Sanirajak also submits that because 25· ·there are many Elders in attendance, further meetings 26· ·should be scheduled with sufficient number of days so ·1· ·that all sessions could be held in the daytime only. ·2· ·Last week, four evening sessions in five days were held ·3· ·with the time from start to finish of those daily ·4· ·sessions 12 and even 12-and-a-half hours in length. ·5· ·This is a very long time for an Elder to have to sit in ·6· ·meetings on any day and especially on multiple days in ·7· ·the same week. ·8· · · · Also, the Nunavut Impact Review Board previously ·9· ·had mentioned that holding these meetings during a 10· ·pandemic is extremely expensive.· Should the Board be 11· ·under budgetary constraints that would not permit 12· ·holding meetings of sufficient length to complete the 13· ·process, the Government of Canada should provide the 14· ·Board with the necessary funding for this purpose. 15· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Arctic Bay, Lori 17· ·Idlout. 18· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Arctic Bay (Motion) 19· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) 20· ·MS. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Lori 21· ·Idlout. 22· · · · Olayuk Naqitarvik, I asked him, if he wouldn't 23· ·mind, what he thinks of the motion from the 24· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Association, so the 25· ·Arctic Bay Ikajutit Hunters and Trappers Association, 26· ·we will be rely -- saying some of the concerns we have ·1· ·and what we think. ·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Arctic Bay Hunters and ·3· ·Trappers Organization, Lori Idlout. ·4· ·Submissions by Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers ·5· ·Organization (Motion) (Mittimatalik Hunters and ·6· ·Trappers Organization) ·7· ·MS. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · Thank you. ·8· · · · Lori Idlout, legal counsel for Ikajutit Hunters ·9· ·and Trappers Organization in Arctic Bay. 10· · · · We support the motions by the Mittimatalik Hunters 11· ·and Trappers Organization.· The motion touches on 12· ·issues that Ikajutit has pressed -- has concerns to the 13· ·Nunavut Impact Review Board.· Ikajutit appreciates the 14· ·heavy burden that Nunavut Impact Review Board has in 15· ·making informed recommendations to the appropriate 16· ·ministers. 17· · · · On Day 6 of the hearings, Ikajutit -- or, I guess, 18· ·it's Day 7 now.· On Day 7 of the hearings, Ikajutit is 19· ·not convinced that Nunavut Impact Review Board has 20· ·sufficient information to make an informed 21· ·recommendation.· Ikajutit, as holding their rights to 22· ·manage Inuit harvesting rights, is not assured that 23· ·Nunavut Impact Review Board has the requisite Inuit 24· ·Qaujimajatuqangit information to ensure that rights in 25· ·the Nunavut Agreement are adhered to. 26· · · · To limit our questions during the process has ·1· ·limited the ability for NIRB to receive the information ·2· ·they need.· Ikajutit supports the fact that we should ·3· ·not compromise the time of either the technical ·4· ·advisors or the communities during the community ·5· ·roundtable. ·6· · · · Ikajutit reminds the Board when, in November 2019, ·7· ·the hearings were abruptly ended because of NTI's ·8· ·motion.· When the Board cited the primary reasons for ·9· ·granting NTI's motion, Ikajutit feel that these primary 10· ·reasons remain. 11· · · · The three primary reasons listed in the October 20 12· ·prehearing conference report are stated.· First bullet: 13· ·(as read) 14· · · · Parties had identified that uncertainty and 15· · · · significant information gaps existed in 16· · · · relation to the assessment of the Phase 2 17· · · · development proposal.· [Second] Intervenors, 18· · · · particularly community-based intervenors, had 19· · · · been challenged to have adequate time and 20· · · · resources to review and translate 21· · · · information.· [And the last bullet] Overall, 22· · · · in the potentially affected communities in 23· · · · the North Baffin, there appeared to be a lack 24· · · · of understanding of the Phase 2 development 25· · · · proposal and the potential for impacts and an 26· · · · associated erosion of trust in the process. ·1· ·Finally -- thank you.· (INUKTITUT SPOKEN - NO ·2· ·TRANSLATION). ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Can you repeat the last ·4· ·paragraph.· The feed for the interpretation wasn't ·5· ·switched when the interpreter switched.· If you could ·6· ·please read the last paragraph.· Lori Idlout. ·7· ·MS. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · Lori Idlout, legal counsel for ·8· ·Ikajutit, Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization. ·9· · · · The last bullet is:· (as read) 10· · · · Overall, in the potentially affected 11· · · · communities in the North Baffin, there 12· · · · appeared to be a lack of understanding of the 13· · · · Phase 2 development proposal and the 14· · · · potential for impacts and the associated 15· · · · erosion of trust in the process.· I repeat, 16· · · · that these issues remain. 17· ·The Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 18· ·Organization submits that Nunavut Impact Review Board 19· ·needs to put the interests of Inuit above the interests 20· ·of time.· Qujannamiik. 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Clyde River, Jerry 22· ·Natanine. 23· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Clyde River (Motion) 24· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) 25· ·MR. NATANINE:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Jerry 26· ·Natanine from the Hamlet of Clyde River, and also ·1· ·representing Nangmautaq Hunters and Trappers ·2· ·Organization, Warren -- our advisor Warren will answer ·3· ·to that.· Thank you. ·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Warren Bernauer. ·5· ·MR. BERNAUER:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. ·6· · · · As Mayor Natanine said, both the Hamlet of Clyde ·7· ·River and the Nangmautaq Hunters and Trappers ·8· ·Association support the motion. ·9· · · · Clyde River has not yet been able to question the 10· ·proponent on many of its most substantial outstanding 11· ·issues with this proposal, including project effects on 12· ·the marine environment and the proponent's approach to 13· ·adaptive management.· It would seriously undermine 14· ·Clyde River's participation in this process if the 15· ·hamlet and hunters and trappers association were unable 16· ·to thoroughly question the proponent on these issues. 17· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Amaruq Hunters and Trappers 19· ·Association, Meeka Mike. 20· ·Submissions by Amaruq Hunters and Trappers Association 21· ·(Motion) (Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers 22· ·Organization) 23· ·MR. KAKEE:· · · · · · · ·Madam Chair, Jeetaloo Kakee 24· ·from Iqaluit, hunters and trappers organization and 25· ·Elder.· And, Madam Chair, Meeka Mike will explain the 26· ·rest in English about the processes, like, in order -- ·1· ·so that our representative from Iqaluit can keep up ·2· ·with the proceedings. ·3· · · · Madam Chair, Amaruq Hunters and Trappers ·4· ·Organization supports the motion by the Mittimatalik ·5· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization whereas we heard ·6· ·that -- like, the community has concerns about possible ·7· ·impacts on Inuit traditional knowledge and our beliefs, ·8· ·and we have to understand, so under -- I think there ·9· ·are 35 under the Nunavut Agreement.· I'm passing on the 10· ·mic to Meeka.· Thank you. 11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Meeka Mike. 12· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · Thank you.· Meeka Mike from 13· ·Amaruq Hunters and Trappers Organization, Jeetaloo's 14· ·assistant. 15· · · · The motion by Amaruq Hunters and Trappers 16· ·Association hereby support the motion by Mittimatalik 17· ·HTO, Hunters and Trappers Organization, whereas the 18· ·procedures, presentations of concern -- of uncertainty, 19· ·and the knowledge of Arctic wildlife natural 20· ·progressions is, at present, stated by parties. 21· · · · Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, Inuit right-specific 22· ·knowledge have yet to be comprehended by virtue of 23· ·Section 35 of the constitution -- Uqqurmiut 24· ·constitution and by Nunavut Agreement.· Jeetaloo Kakee. 25· · · · Meeka Mike.· Thank you. 26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Government of Nunavut, Emily ·1· ·Stockley. ·2· ·Submissions by Government of Nunavut (Motion) ·3· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·4· ·MS. STOCKLEY:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Emily ·5· ·Stockley for the Government of Nunavut. ·6· · · · The Government of Nunavut supports the motion of ·7· ·the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization to ·8· ·ask questions but submits there ought to be some ·9· ·restrictions. 10· · · · At the outset, we would submit that the Nunavut 11· ·Impact Review Board has significant flexibility within 12· ·its rules of procedure to modify those rules to suit 13· ·its own process.· Limiting cross-examination is 14· ·allowable, in our view. 15· · · · The Board has inherent jurisdiction to exercise 16· ·powers which are necessary to enable it to 17· ·effectively -- to act effectively within its 18· ·jurisdiction in a case in front of the decision maker. 19· · · · On the matter of written questions, the Board's 20· ·role specifically allow for written questions at 21· ·Rule 25. 22· · · · Secondly, unfettered cross-examination is not the 23· ·key to a process which satisfies procedural fairness 24· ·obligations.· Those obligations are elsewhere and also 25· ·satisfied.· Where proceedings have many parties, as in 26· ·this case, unrestricted cross-examination may not help ·1· ·to ensure the evidentiary record is complete, but may ·2· ·instead veer away from the true inquiry needed.· The ·3· ·information sought may become less relevant to the ·4· ·technical information required. ·5· · · · The Board's rules provide that relevant evidence ·6· ·means evidence having any tendency to prove or disprove ·7· ·a fact in issue.· In this formal technical portion of ·8· ·this Nunavut Impact Review Board's assessment public ·9· ·hearing, an important function is ensuring that the 10· ·Board has a sufficient and complete technical 11· ·evidentiary record pursuant to which it may render its 12· ·decision regarding this process pursuant to the 13· ·criteria that are set out for the Board in the Nunavut 14· ·Agreement and NUPPAA. 15· · · · With that in mind, the Government of Nunavut 16· ·submits that the Board should allow the motion for 17· ·questions, but that the Board ought to include the 18· ·following:· The Board should disallow any questions on 19· ·a topic which have been asked and answered in this 20· ·proceeding if the information is on the record and the 21· ·Board is satisfied with the information.· Repeating 22· ·questions already asked and answered serves little 23· ·purpose in this technical portion of the public 24· ·hearing. 25· · · · The Board should not permit any intervenor posing 26· ·questions to provide background in the nature of ·1· ·evidence.· Not only are intervenors not yet sworn in or ·2· ·affirmed, but such questions call upon the party being ·3· ·asked to render conclusions or evidence outside of the ·4· ·scope of their work and knowledge. ·5· · · · The Board should ensure that it is satisfied that ·6· ·intervenors' questions are, in fact, relevant as that ·7· ·definition is set out in the Board's rules, and that ·8· ·the questions will assist the Board in completing the ·9· ·evidentiary record. 10· · · · In conclusion, the Government of Nunavut submits 11· ·that this technical formal portion is and ought to be 12· ·structured and focused on matters that are technical in 13· ·nature and which assist the Board in completing the 14· ·evidentiary record.· The community roundtable is the 15· ·most important -- sorry, the most appropriate venue for 16· ·all other issues as it relates to written questions. 17· ·The rules provide that written questions are 18· ·permissible.· Thank you. 19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Department of Justice 20· ·representing the Government of Canada intervenors, 21· ·Simon Gruda-Dolbec. 22· ·Submissions by Government of Canada (Motion) 23· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) 24· ·MR. GRUDA-DOLBEC:· · · · Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· I am 25· ·Simon Gruda-Dolbec, legal counsel with the Department 26· ·of Justice Canada. ·1· · · · The Government of Canada appreciates the efforts ·2· ·made by the Board, the proponent, intervenors, ·3· ·community members, and Inuit organizations who ·4· ·participate in this process. ·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Please slow down. ·6· ·MR. GRUDA-DOLBEC:· · · · Sure.· And also recognizes the ·7· ·challenges caused by the pandemic for all of us who ·8· ·participate in these hearings. ·9· · · · Over the past week, the Government of Canada has 10· ·been listening carefully to the knowledge shared, 11· ·questions raised, and concerns voiced by intervenors 12· ·and community members. 13· · · · The Government of Canada recognizes the importance 14· ·of oral communication to this process.· For this 15· ·reason, it is supportive of using the remaining six 16· ·days to continue the technical meetings and then of 17· ·extending or resuming the public hearing as soon as 18· ·practically possible to complete the community 19· ·roundtable. 20· · · · The Government of Canada also recognizes that it 21· ·is within the Board's discretion to try and find 22· ·efficiencies in the conduct of its proceedings, such as 23· ·grouping Government of Canada's presentations. 24· · · · This has been a long, involved process for all, 25· ·and the Government of Canada appreciates the commitment 26· ·everyone is making by participating in these long days. ·1· ·However, it is also important to acknowledge that we ·2· ·are making progress and learning about this project and ·3· ·related community concerns.· It is, therefore, ·4· ·essential to continue working together to ensure all ·5· ·voices are heard.· Qujannamiik. ·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Oceans North, Christopher ·7· ·Debicki. ·8· ·Submissions by Oceans North (Motion) (Mittimatalik ·9· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization) 10· ·MR. DEBICKI:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 11· · · · I'm Chris Debicki, Oceans North, legal advisor -- 12· ·legal counsel. 13· · · · Madam Chair, Mr. Murphy, Ms. Idlout, Mr. Primeau, 14· ·and others have highlighted what I would respectfully 15· ·submit are very serious procedural deficiencies that 16· ·have occurred up until this point, and I would submit 17· ·that the transcript will show that Oceans North and 18· ·other parties have not been permitted to ask legitimate 19· ·and reasonable questions, including questions directly 20· ·based on FES guidelines and that on several occasions, 21· ·we have been barred from follow-up questions in the 22· ·face of evasions and refusals to answer. 23· · · · Baffinland has been, from our perspective, 24· ·unfairly protected from having to provide direct 25· ·answers to questions that are at the core of an impact 26· ·benefit assessment. ·1· · · · I know there's been reference, Madam Chair, made ·2· ·to the Board's rules and to Rule 36.1, which provides ·3· ·that:· (as read) ·4· · · · Primary purpose of an oral hearing is to ·5· · · · present information to the Board [and that] ·6· · · · The Board may direct two types of hearing ·7· · · · venues as part of an oral hearing. ·8· ·There's the possibility of an oral hearing -- sorry, an ·9· ·informal hearing under that rule is an:· (as read) 10· · · · Open forum community meeting, which is held 11· · · · primarily to allow interested persons and 12· · · · Elders the opportunity to communicate their 13· · · · views about the project proposal in an 14· · · · informal environment. 15· ·And then 36.1(b):· (as read) 16· · · · The formal hearing venue is a public meeting 17· · · · held primarily to allow the parties to 18· · · · present technical evidence to the Board. 19· ·Now, that may be the case, Madam Chair, but I'll note 20· ·that in addition to the strong participation in 21· ·Mittimatalik and Iqaluit in the rooms in which these 22· ·meetings are taking place, many more Nunavummiut and 23· ·Elders are listening at home. 24· · · · There's high participation at these technical 25· ·meetings and a desire to participate and follow in this 26· ·setting and in this forum where technical questions are ·1· ·asked and technical answers are sought in this, the ·2· ·most important of impact review processes. ·3· · · · In addition to this high participation, people are ·4· ·hearing that questions are not getting answered. ·5· ·Mr. Murphy said, when he tabled this motion, that ·6· ·this -- correctly, in my opinion -- that this project ·7· ·is the most important industrial development project in ·8· ·Nunavut, and I would agree and suggest that it's likely ·9· ·the most important industrial development project 10· ·anywhere in northern Canada. 11· · · · This railroad and port will set the course of 12· ·development for North Baffin, for Nunavut, for the next 13· ·200 years.· Benefits and impacts are both much bigger 14· ·than what is being described. 15· · · · Now, Madam Chair, there are parties with 16· ·constitutional obligations owed to Inuit and northern 17· ·citizens, and I would suggest with great respect that 18· ·it's not enough to point to a process and then sit 19· ·quietly in the context of a pandemic and in the face of 20· ·obvious procedural problems here.· Much is being said 21· ·about the Crown duty to consult, and so I -- in the 22· ·interest of time, I won't repeat the important points 23· ·raised by the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers 24· ·Organization, by Arctic Bay and others, but I will note 25· ·that there is a Crown fiduciary duty far greater than 26· ·the simple duty to consult and the duty to point to a ·1· ·process in terms of fairness and constitutional ·2· ·obligations under Section 35 and elsewhere to ensure ·3· ·substantive fairness as well in respecting and ·4· ·protecting the interests of Inuit and citizens ·5· ·generally. ·6· · · · Again, this, Madam Chair, isn't from our ·7· ·perspective about simply stopping a process for an ·8· ·application for an increase of 6 million tonnes out of ·9· ·a port.· This process is about getting the balance 10· ·right between benefits and impacts to set the stage for 11· ·generations of benefits and prosperity for Nunavummiut. 12· · · · Oceans North supports the motion on both grounds, 13· ·and I would note that -- and suggest that the Board 14· ·also make efforts to accommodate the ongoing and 15· ·extraordinarily valuable participation of Elders. 16· · · · We've heard from such individuals as Charlie 17· ·Inuarak, Moses Koonoo, Elijah Panipakoocho, Kaujak 18· ·Komangunpik, and many others.· And going forward I 19· ·would suggest that evening sessions not occur after 20· ·full days as they are discriminatory to Elders and 21· ·parents and many other people following along and 22· ·participating in this process.· Thank you, Madam Chair. 23· ·Those are our submissions. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·World Wildlife Fund, Andrew 25· ·Dumbrille. 26· ·MR. OKALIK:· · · · · · · Iksivauta (INUKTITUT SPOKEN - ·1· ·NO TRANSLATION). ·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Paul Okalik. ·3· ·Submissions by World Wildlife Fund (Motion) ·4· ·(Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·5· ·MR. OKALIK:· · · · · · · Thank you.· Madam Chair, thank ·6· ·you.· Paul Okalik from World Life -- from World ·7· ·Wildlife Organization. ·8· · · · With respect to the motion, we will state our ·9· ·position.· During this time with the motion 10· ·presented -- brought forward by the Mittimatalik 11· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization, we do fully support. 12· · · · We are here -- and we are here in adherence to 13· ·your procedures that are laid out, and we know that 14· ·you, as NIRB, have to be fair, but during this time, we 15· ·have observed -- and any subtle changes that we may 16· ·come across, the procedures have a lot of impact on 17· ·what we may want to present, so we would like to have 18· ·fairness.· We want to proceed forward, and when we are 19· ·disrupted how we are to proceed, it impacts what -- why 20· ·we are here.· So let us continue with the proper 21· ·procedures and not make changes because this will 22· ·impact our future.· People are here.· We have community 23· ·members, and Iqaluit members won't have any other 24· ·opportunity.· When this is complete, there will be no 25· ·other opportunities, so you have to be diligent because 26· ·this is a very important issue for all, and that is the ·1· ·first I wanted to state. ·2· · · · And when we ask questions, we have to consider the ·3· ·questions for a long time, and when proper responses ·4· ·are not given, it raises more questions, and you -- and ·5· ·often those who are asking questions are limited, but ·6· ·perhaps the -- the proponent should be asked further -- ·7· ·or asked to clarify further their responses. ·8· · · · So we are grateful to the motion, and we'd like to ·9· ·continue to move forward, and it appears that we may 10· ·have to have more hearings that affect the communities. 11· · · · The communities have requested to have a thorough 12· ·meeting and not in pieces, and this is to ensure every 13· ·party's position is heard.· I'll stop there for now, my 14· ·comments.· Thank you, Madam Chair. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Independent Television 16· ·Network, Isabelle Gilles. 17· ·Submissions by Nunavut Independent Television Network 18· ·(Motion) (Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization) 19· ·MS. GILLES:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Can I 20· ·confirm that you can hear me? 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Yes.· You can proceed. 22· ·MS. GILLES:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. 23· · · · Isabelle Gilles for the Nunavut Independent 24· ·Television Network.· As you know, our team is currently 25· ·focusing on broadcasting these hearings on Ugavut TV. 26· ·We believe that this is the most important contribution ·1· ·that the Nunavut Independent Television Network can ·2· ·make to support informed consultation of Inuit in this ·3· ·public hearing process. ·4· · · · Initially, we had made a team decision that we ·5· ·would not take sides on motions while we were focusing ·6· ·on our broadcasting role.· However, because the motion ·7· ·is about the rights of Inuit to be informed and ·8· ·consulted in oral Inuktitut, the Nunavut Independent ·9· ·Television Network has decided to support this motion. 10· · · · We have always emphasized the importance of 11· ·listening to the voices of Inuit community members; 12· ·that is why we have been filming all of these public 13· ·hearings and community meetings about Mary River; that 14· ·is why we have been talking about informing consult; 15· ·that is why we believe that limiting the time for 16· ·questions and discussion for Inuit organizations and 17· ·community members could undermine the purpose of these 18· ·hearings; and that is why we support this motion. 19· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Brad Armstrong. 21· ·MR. ARMSTRONG:· · · · · ·Qujannamiik, Madam Chair and 22· ·members of the Board.· Brad Armstrong, legal counsel 23· ·for Baffinland. 24· · · · Madam Chair, we have submitted a written response, 25· ·and I would like to ask your legal counsel to mark it 26· ·as an exhibit, and then I will summarize the written ·1· ·response. ·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·NIRB legal counsel. ·3· ·MS. MEADOWS:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·4· ·Teresa Meadows, legal counsel for the Nunavut Impact ·5· ·Review Board. ·6· · · · Madam Chair, we have also received the oral motion ·7· ·that was made by the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers ·8· ·Organization, a written version of that motion, and so ·9· ·I propose to file that motion and also this document, 10· ·which has been circulated amongst legal counsel and is 11· ·now to be read into the record by Mr. Armstrong.· Thank 12· ·you, Madam Chair. 13· · · · EXHIBIT 19 - Written Version of the Oral 14· · · · Motion of the Mittimatilik Hunters and 15· · · · Trappers Organization presented on 16· · · · January 30, 2021 (English) 17· · · · EXHIBIT 20· - Written Reply of Baffinland 18· · · · Iron Mines Corporation to the Motion of the 19· · · · Mittimatilik Hunters and Trappers 20· · · · Organization presented on January 30, 2021 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Brad Armstrong. 22· ·Submissions by Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation 23· ·(Motion) (Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers 24· ·Organization) 25· ·MR. ARMSTRONG:· · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair and 26· ·Members of the Board.· Brad Armstrong, legal counsel ·1· ·for Baffinland. ·2· · · · Baffinland does not support the motion.· Madam ·3· ·Chair, Baffinland submits that the purpose of this ·4· ·public hearing is set out clearly in Rule 36.1 of your ·5· ·rules of procedure, and that rule says that:· (as read) ·6· · · · The primary purpose of an oral hearing is to ·7· · · · present information to the Board. ·8· ·The rule includes two parts of a public hearing:· One ·9· ·is the more informal community roundtable, and it is 10· ·primarily:· (as read) 11· · · · To allow interested persons and Elders the 12· · · · opportunity to communicate their views about 13· · · · the project. 14· ·And the second part is this part that we're in, which 15· ·is the technical meeting, and the rule reads that: 16· ·(as read) 17· · · · The formal meeting is a public meeting held 18· · · · primarily to allow the parties to present 19· · · · technical evidence to the Board. 20· ·The most important part of this technical meeting is 21· ·the presentations of Baffinland and the parties to the 22· ·Board so that the Board can understand the positions of 23· ·the parties. 24· · · · Too much questioning is getting in the way of the 25· ·parties and the communities from presenting their views 26· ·to you and the Board.· The Board is here primarily to ·1· ·listen to the parties.· You are not here to listen to ·2· ·lawyers, including me. ·3· · · · Your rules, Madam Chair -- let me step back.· The ·4· ·review has been underway for over two-and-a-half years, ·5· ·and there have been four opportunities for parties to ·6· ·ask questions.· The Board provided for information ·7· ·requests early on in the process, and the Board has ·8· ·organized three technical meetings.· In most of these ·9· ·processes, Madam Chair, there is only one technical 10· ·meeting, but for this project there have been three. 11· ·And through the information requests and at the 12· ·technical meetings, parties have had the opportunity to 13· ·ask questions, and numerous questions have been asked 14· ·in those processes.· You can take that into account, 15· ·Madam Chair, in determining to limit questions at this 16· ·stage of the proceeding.· Parties have had ample 17· ·opportunity to ask questions during the review. 18· · · · Ms. Stockley, the lawyer for the Government of 19· ·Nunavut, pointed out to you -- as you well know, Madam 20· ·Chair -- that under your rules, you can provide for 21· ·written questions, and the rule in particular is 22· ·Rule 25.1 through 25.4, specifically providing for 23· ·written questions. 24· · · · Madam Chair, the Supreme Court of Canada and the 25· ·Federal Court of Appeal have issued a number of 26· ·decisions in which they concluded that in hearings such ·1· ·as the one which you are conducting right now, where ·2· ·there are many issues and many parties, it is ·3· ·reasonable and often practical to limit ·4· ·cross-examination because cross-examination can delay ·5· ·moving forward with the primary purpose of the meeting, ·6· ·which, as I say, is to hear presentations of the ·7· ·parties, and we've cited the cases in our written ·8· ·submission.· Ms. Stockley also, for the Government of ·9· ·Nunavut, stated this point very clearly. 10· · · · Madam Chair, there seems to be some confusion, we 11· ·believe, that asking questions is equivalent to making 12· ·presentations, and, Madam Chair, you have made it very 13· ·clear that parties asking questions have not been sworn 14· ·in and are not presenting evidence.· Cross-examination 15· ·questions are not evidence, and they are not 16· ·presentations. 17· · · · In the six days of hearings so far, the only party 18· ·which has presented evidence and made presentations is 19· ·Baffinland. 20· · · · The questions are standing in the way of the other 21· ·parties making their presentations.· Baffinland has 22· ·been prepared throughout the review process to answer 23· ·the questions posed and has done so very responsibly 24· ·and very thoroughly and very respectfully to all the 25· ·parties. 26· · · · It is important, Madam Chair, for the Board to ·1· ·fulfill its mandate by completing this public hearing ·2· ·within the time frame scheduled, and that is over the ·3· ·next six days, and then to make its report and ·4· ·recommendation respecting the Phase 2 proposal to the ·5· ·minister on a timely basis.· This is in the interest of ·6· ·all of the parties, including Baffinland. ·7· · · · Rule 4.1 of the NIRB rules specifies that the -- a ·8· ·board is to move forward to complete its processes ·9· ·within a timely schedule.· And this can be done with 10· ·respect to this hearing. 11· · · · Madam Chair, respecting the Government of Canada 12· ·relying on the process as part of consultation, this is 13· ·not new.· The Nunavut Agreement and the Nunavut 14· ·Planning and Project Assessment Act provide very 15· ·clearly for your process, your very thorough and 16· ·detailed review process over the last two years.· The 17· ·entire process is part of that process of consultation 18· ·resulting in your recommendations to the minister, and 19· ·the minister then may determine that -- will use your 20· ·process as part of consultation and may determine that 21· ·additional consultation is required.· There is nothing 22· ·new here.· This is built into the Nunavut Agreement and 23· ·the legislation. 24· · · · Madam Chair, we believe, as I stated, that this 25· ·hearing can still be completed on schedule, but to do 26· ·that, the Board must move forward to begin hearing the ·1· ·presentations from the QIA and other organizations and ·2· ·government agencies and other parties and then move ·3· ·towards the community roundtable. ·4· · · · This can be done.· We have made a suggestion in ·5· ·our written submission to move forward by completing ·6· ·the Baffinland presentations followed by presentations ·7· ·of the other parties so that you -- so that you fulfill ·8· ·the true purpose of this meeting by hearing the ·9· ·presentations.· And once those are done, we go to the 10· ·community roundtable, and then you may determine to 11· ·allocate time for oral questions or provide some 12· ·directions for written questions, and that can all be 13· ·done in the context of this hearing.· It may be that 14· ·some of the written questions require some time to 15· ·come.· You can set a deadline under your rules for 16· ·Baffinland or others to file written responses and then 17· ·move forward with final written briefs as -- as 18· ·indicated in the QIA motion, which was earlier 19· ·presented. 20· · · · Again, Madam Chair, it is important for Baffinland 21· ·and all parties that the Board completes its review and 22· ·completes this public hearing on schedule. 23· · · · Madam Chair, the Baffinland team is with you in 24· ·Pond Inlet and here in Iqaluit.· If the Board does 25· ·decide to extend the hearing for a few extra days, we 26· ·will still be here, and we will be prepared to fully ·1· ·participate.· Qujannamiik, Madam Chair.· That completes ·2· ·our response. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Right now, it's 10:15.· We'll ·4· ·take a 15-minute break and then reconvene. ·5· ·(ADJOURNMENT) ·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·During this public hearing, ·7· ·there have been three exhibits that Baffinland has ·8· ·proposed to file that comprised new information that ·9· ·was not previously filed with the Board.· It is my 10· ·understanding that the Nunavut Impact Review Board has 11· ·circulated the materials on the public registry and 12· ·that Baffinland has made them available in printed form 13· ·in Iqaluit and Pond Inlet. 14· · · · In addition, on Saturday evening, Baffinland in 15· ·response to the Board's ruling, Oceans North to file 16· ·the OpenOil report and spreadsheet proposed to file two 17· ·documents to provide Baffinland's own financial 18· ·analysis.· I will now turn to Baffinland to describe 19· ·the exhibits, and then I will ask parties to identify 20· ·whether they object to the Board entering these 21· ·exhibits into the public hearing record. 22· · · · For the clarity of all participants, if a document 23· ·is entered as an exhibit, it means it will be treated 24· ·as evidence in the Board's assessment, and Baffinland 25· ·will be able to project the extra slides and refer to 26· ·the exhibits when answering questions during the public ·1· ·hearing. ·2· · · · Baffinland legal counsel, Brad Armstrong. ·3· ·Motion to Enter Exhibits (Baffinland Iron Mines ·4· ·Corporation) ·5· ·MR. ARMSTRONG:· · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· Brad ·6· ·Armstrong, legal counsel for Baffinland. ·7· · · · Madam Chair, I will speak just to the exhibit, ·8· ·which is the report of an independent economist titled ·9· ·"Mary River Project Economics Explained".· Madam Chair, 10· ·this is a fairly short document.· It's nine pages long, 11· ·and it summarizes the financial experience of the 12· ·project to date and summarizes the need for the project 13· ·to -- to expand into Phase 2 in order to reduce the 14· ·costs per tonne of producing iron ore. 15· · · · Madam Chair, Baffinland has said to you during the 16· ·previous portion of the hearing in 2019 and then again 17· ·in this hearing that the purpose of the Phase 2 project 18· ·is to reduce the costs of producing the iron ore in 19· ·order to make the project more sustainable, whether 20· ·iron ore prices are high or whether they're low.· And 21· ·this document provides an explanation to you and some 22· ·details with financial information concerning that 23· ·requirement. 24· · · · We note, Madam Chair, that the -- as you 25· ·mentioned, Oceans North has filed two documents 26· ·prepared by OpenOil, and those documents rely on the ·1· ·earlier 2018 offering circular to do a financial ·2· ·analysis.· And in those documents, Madam Chair, OpenOil ·3· ·and then Oceans North actually encouraged and invited ·4· ·Baffinland to provide its own information, and that's ·5· ·what this document -- this -- this economics summarized ·6· ·document does and provides, Madam Chair, the Board with ·7· ·a very succinct -- and -- and the other parties -- with ·8· ·a very succinct and in plain language summary of the ·9· ·economics of the project and how the Phase 2 expansion 10· ·will enable the project to reduce the costs of 11· ·trucking.· Going from trucking to rail, that reduces 12· ·costs.· And also increasing the volume of iron ore 13· ·reduces the fixed costs -- the fixed costs per tonne of 14· ·production. 15· · · · So, Madam Chair, we -- we ask the Board to accept 16· ·this summary of the finances as an exhibit, and the 17· ·Baffinland team will summarize the summary in the 18· ·presentation on socio-economics and be available for 19· ·questions depending on our ruling at -- at that time. 20· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 21· · · · Yes.· Thank you, Madam Chair, and my colleague, 22· ·Ms. Christine Kowbel, will speak to the other documents 23· ·on the -- on the potential exhibit list.· Thank you, 24· ·Madam Chair. 25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Christine Kowbel. 26· ·MS. KOWBEL:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. ·1· ·Christine Kowbel, Baffinland legal counsel. ·2· · · · Madam Chair, the other exhibits that Ms. Meadows ·3· ·referred to are -- are three documents.· One is a ·4· ·figure; another is a table.· Those -- those are ·5· ·updating information previously submitted in this ·6· ·assessment by Baffinland.· Specifically that figure and ·7· ·table updates Figure C5, including an Appendix C of the ·8· ·October 2019 food security assessment.· Specifically ·9· ·the -- the figure and table that we submitted as an 10· ·exhibit includes data from 2018 and 2019 submitted to 11· ·the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada by the 12· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization, and so 13· ·that figure and table is just to update information 14· ·that's already been included as part of the assessment. 15· · · · The next exhibit that I'll speak to is the -- the 16· ·sound representation slides.· Those are just a visual 17· ·representation of information that Baffinland has 18· ·shared in many different ways, including in previous 19· ·monitoring reports, on the Nunavut Impact Review Board 20· ·registry.· Baffinland spoke directly to those -- to it 21· ·in the presentation to those issues in the 22· ·presentation.· Those noise figures just serve as a 23· ·visual aid for our discussion on several slides in the 24· ·marine presentation, Slide 44 and 47 specifically, and, 25· ·Madam Chair, we ask the Board to accept those as 26· ·exhibits in these proceedings because we think those ·1· ·visual representations will help enhance the Board's ·2· ·understanding of -- of those comments.· Thank you, ·3· ·Madam Chair. ·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Do any of the registered ·5· ·intervenors have any objections to any of the five ·6· ·exhibits being entered as exhibits? ·7· · · · Starting with the Qikiqtani Inuit Association ·8· ·legal counsel, Lorraine Land. ·9· ·Submissions by Qikiqtani Inuit Association (Motion) 10· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 11· ·MS. LAND:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. 12· ·Lorraine Land for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association. 13· · · · The Qikiqtani Inuit Association has no issues with 14· ·the addition of these materials to the record.· Thank 15· ·you. 16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik 17· ·Incorporated, Neida Gonzalez or Arthur Yuan. 18· ·Submissions by Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated (Motion) 19· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 20· ·MS. GONZALEZ:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Neida 21· ·Gonzalez, legal counsel for Nunavut Tunngavik. 22· · · · Nunavut Tunngavik does not have any objections to 23· ·the exhibits. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet, Frank 25· ·Tester. 26· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Pond Inlet (Motion) ·1· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) ·2· ·MR. TESTER:· · · · · · · Madam Chair, the Hamlet of ·3· ·Pond Inlet has no objection to these exhibits. ·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·5· ·Trappers Organization, Eamon Murphy. ·6· ·Submissions by Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers ·7· ·Organization (Motion) (Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) ·8· ·MR. MURPHY:· · · · · · · Qujannamiik, Madam Chair. ·9· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization, Eamon 10· ·Murphy, legal counsel. 11· · · · Madam Chair, Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers 12· ·Organization does not have any objection to the 13· ·additional slides, but we do have an objection to the 14· ·Mary River Project Economics Explained document that 15· ·was sent to the parties on Saturday. 16· · · · Madam Chair, we note that the Document 8 is 17· ·January 29th, 2019.· So it's a document that's two 18· ·years old, but it was filed six days into the hearing, 19· ·and if we understand the explanation for the late 20· ·filing, it's that it's either in response to the 21· ·OpenOil report or that it fills some portion of the 22· ·need for the project, which is set out under the 23· ·environmental impact statement. 24· · · · Madam Chair, I note in the document that 25· ·Baffinland seeks to file there is no mention at all of 26· ·the OpenOil report, and, indeed, it looks like it was ·1· ·prepared well before the OpenOil report.· And, ·2· ·secondly, if this goes to the need for the project, ·3· ·Baffinland should've filed this far in advance of the ·4· ·sixth day of the hearing.· Earlier notice of the ·5· ·document would've given parties the ability to review ·6· ·it, to consider it, and to get their own advice from ·7· ·financial experts as needed. ·8· · · · So in my submission, it would be an unfair ·9· ·prejudice under Rule 33 of the Board's rules of 10· ·procedure to allow the report and the associated 11· ·resume.· Baffinland has had this document for two 12· ·years.· They've sat on it.· They have now sprung it on 13· ·the parties six days into the hearing, and you should 14· ·not allow this late filing.· Qujannamiik, Madam Chair. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Community of Igloolik, 16· ·Igloolik Working Group, Igloolik Hunters and Trappers 17· ·Organization, either Peter Ivalu or Merlyn Recinos. 18· ·Submissions by Community of Igloolik, Igloolik Working 19· ·Group, Igloolik Hunters and Trappers Organization 20· ·(Motion) (Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 21· ·MR. IVALU:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· Peter 22· ·Ivalu, Igloolik Working Group, Community of Igloolik, 23· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization in Igloolik. 24· · · · Although I appreciate MHTO's comments, Igloolik 25· ·Working Group objects to the report submitted by 26· ·OpenOil.· It is misleading.· But we have no objections ·1· ·to the other four reports being submitted.· Thank you, ·2· ·Madam Chair. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers ·4· ·Organization, Okalik Eegeesiak. ·5· ·Submissions by Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers ·6· ·Organization (Motion) (Baffinland Iron Mines ·7· ·Corporation) ·8· ·MS. EEGEESIAK:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. ·9· ·Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers, technical advisor. 10· · · · We have no objection.· Thank you, Madam Chair. 11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Sanirajak, Louis 12· ·Primeau. 13· ·Submissions by Hamlet of of Sanirajak (Motion) 14· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 15· ·MR. PRIMEAU:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 16· · · · The Hamlet of Sanirajak does not have any 17· ·objections of filing any of these documents.· The one 18· ·thing that the Board might consider advising Baffinland 19· ·to do would be to indicate who the authors of the Mary 20· ·River Project Economics Explained report are.· It seems 21· ·to indicate on the bottom it has contact information 22· ·for Impact Economics, but it's not totally clear that 23· ·that's who the authors of the report are.· Thank you. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Arctic Bay, Lori 25· ·Idlout. 26· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Arctic Bay and Ikajutit Arctic ·1· ·Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization (Motion) ·2· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) ·3· ·MS. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · Lori Idlout.· I'll be speaking ·4· ·for both Hamlet of Arctic Bay and Ikajutit Arctic Bay ·5· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization.· Neither ·6· ·organization has sufficient resources to have read the ·7· ·materials, given the lateness of their submission. ·8· ·Being both legal advisor and technical advisor, I've ·9· ·been trying to go through all their materials, their 10· ·technical materials.· So we will echo the concerns 11· ·shared by Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers 12· ·Organization.· Qujannamiik. 13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Clyde River, Jerry 14· ·Natanine. 15· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Clyde River, Nangmautaq 16· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization (Motion) (Baffinland 17· ·Iron Mines Corporation) 18· ·MR. NATANINE:· · · · · · Jerry Natanine, Hamlet of 19· ·Clyde River, Hunters and Trappers Organization 20· ·Nangmautaq. 21· · · · Although we have no objections to the information, 22· ·I want to comment that we've been asking about 23· ·financial projections about the project for over a year 24· ·now, and I'm glad that it's finally come out.· Thank 25· ·you. 26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Amaruq Hunters and Trappers ·1· ·Organization, Meeka Mike. ·2· ·Submissions by Amaruq Hunters and Trappers Organization ·3· ·(Motion) (Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) ·4· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. ·5· ·Jeetaloo will speak first. ·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Jeetaloo Kakee. ·7· ·MR. KAKEE:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·8· · · · These concerns, we understand them.· For water and ·9· ·report, I'm wondering if it's included, and that's all 10· ·I have.· Thank you. 11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Meeka Mike. 12· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. 13· ·Amaruq Hunters and Trappers Association. 14· · · · We have no objection to filing the documents. 15· ·We've been asking this question for a number of years, 16· ·also before the Amaruq hunters organization was 17· ·involved, and it's very understandable for Inuit to 18· ·read it, and we weren't able to look through it last 19· ·night, although we were together last night in meeting, 20· ·but we had a lot of work, and we have to look through 21· ·it again.· We although support it.· Thank you. 22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Government of Nunavut, Emily 23· ·Stockley. 24· ·Submissions by Government of Nunavut (Motion) 25· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) 26· ·MS. STOCKLEY:· · · · · · Emily Stockley, legal counsel, ·1· ·Government of Nunavut. ·2· · · · We have no objections.· Thank you. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Department of Justice ·4· ·representing the Government of Canada intervenors, ·5· ·Simon Gruda-Dolbec. ·6· ·Submissions by Department of Justice (Motion) ·7· ·(Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation) ·8· ·MR. GRUDA-DOLBEC:· · · · Simon Gruda-Dolbec.· Simon ·9· ·Gruda-Dolbec, legal counsel with the Department of 10· ·Justice Canada. 11· · · · The Government of Canada has no objection to the 12· ·filing.· Thank you. 13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Oceans North, Christopher 14· ·Debicki. 15· ·Submissions by Oceans North (Motion) (Baffinland Iron 16· ·Mines Corporation) 17· ·MR. DEBICKI:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chairperson. 18· ·Debicki, lawyer for the Oceans North legal counsel. 19· · · · Madam Chair, we have no objections with respect to 20· ·the admission of this evidence.· However, and as 21· ·Mr. Armstrong notes, there -- there are, we foresee, 22· ·material points of disagreements between the assertions 23· ·and the facts, as presented in the economic report, 24· ·that the proponent, Baffinland, is presently filing, 25· ·and we would suggest that to allow parties to 26· ·understand these points of disagreements and to test ·1· ·this evidence, it -- it may be necessary that the ·2· ·author or authors -- and it appears to be ·3· ·Mr. Clinton -- is -- is available to -- to assist with ·4· ·clearing up some of these disagreements between ·5· ·experts. ·6· · · · I would also note and request, Madam Chair, that ·7· ·given the Board's determination that the preliminary ·8· ·offering circular is now recognized by the Board as ·9· ·being in the public domain, it will be necessary -- in 10· ·the context of looking at these economic positions at 11· ·the core of this project proposal, it will be 12· ·necessary, Madam Chair, that we refile this preliminary 13· ·offering circular and have it on the record for the 14· ·Board. 15· · · · I would note, Madam Chair, that the document is 16· ·some 700 pages long, and in the interest of assisting 17· ·parties with that material, I would note that the 18· ·document in its entirety is -- is not necessary, in my 19· ·opinion, and I'm happy to work with Mr. Armstrong and 20· ·the proponent perhaps in filing a greatest hits 21· ·version, a condensed version, of the material which we 22· ·submit is relevant for the Board's consideration and 23· ·for the consideration of all parties noting, as I 24· ·referenced earlier today, the -- the additional 25· ·obligations of some of the parties at this table and 26· ·fiduciary responsibilities towards citizens and Inuit. ·1· · · · And so I'm happy, again, to work with ·2· ·Mr. Armstrong to greatly reduce the volume of materials ·3· ·in that preliminary offering circular, but it would ·4· ·certainly be our intention now to file that material. ·5· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·World Wildlife Fund, Paul ·7· ·Okalik. ·8· ·Submissions by World Wildlife Fund (Motion) (Baffinland ·9· ·Iron Mines Corporation) 10· ·MR. OKALIK:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chairperson, 11· ·Okalik from World Wildlife Fund. 12· · · · For the submissions, exhibits, you have to look 13· ·through them fully and -- for these submissions we need 14· ·to review them again in the future, and we'll find out 15· ·how we can do that.· That's it for me.· Thank you, 16· ·Madam Chairperson. 17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Independent Television 18· ·Network, Isabelle Gilles. 19· ·MS. GILLES:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. 20· ·Isabelle Gilles from the Nunavut Independent Television 21· ·Network. 22· · · · And we take no position on the submission of this 23· ·evidence.· Thank you, Madam Chair. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·It is my understanding that 25· ·just before our evening session on Saturday night, the 26· ·Ikajutit Hunters and Trappers Organization filed a ·1· ·written motion, which was circulated to the legal ·2· ·counsel for all parties and will be posted today on the ·3· ·Nunavut Impact Review Board's public registry. ·4· · · · I would now like to ask Lori Idlout, their legal ·5· ·counsel, to speak about the motion and describe for us ·6· ·the decision or order your motion is seeking, the ·7· ·grounds on which your motion is made, and evidence or ·8· ·supporting information the Ikajutit Hunters and ·9· ·Trappers Organization wishes to present in support of 10· ·the motion. 11· · · · And now I -- Lori Idlout. 12· ·Submissions by Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 13· ·Organization (Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and 14· ·Trappers Organization) 15· ·MS. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · Lori Idlout, legal counsel for 16· ·Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization. 17· · · · I would like to note that I submitted this motion 18· ·not having seen the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers 19· ·Organization's motion.· So people will see that it is 20· ·quite similar to that motion. 21· · · · The Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 22· ·Organization submits this motion to the Nunavut Impact 23· ·Review Board.· The motion is for an order by the Board 24· ·to extend the January 25 to February 6th final public 25· ·hearing technical sessions and roundtable to 26· ·February 13, 2021, or, alternatively, recess starting ·1· ·February 6th, 2021, and reconvene on or about March 8, ·2· ·2021, to March 20, 2021. ·3· · · · The grounds for the motion are:· Nunavut Impact ·4· ·Review Board may on its own initiative or on a motion ·5· ·by a party adjourn a hearing on any terms that the ·6· ·Nunavut Impact Review Board considers appropriate ·7· ·according to Rule 31.1 of the Nunavut Impact Review ·8· ·Board rules of procedure. ·9· · · · Nunavut Impact Review Board primary functions 10· ·according to Nunavut Impact Review Board rules of 11· ·procedures are:· 1, to screen project proposals in 12· ·order to determine whether or not a review is required; 13· ·2, to gauge and define the extent of the regional 14· ·impacts of a project; 3, to review the ecosystemic and 15· ·socio-economic impacts of project proposals; 4, to 16· ·determine on the basis of its review whether project 17· ·proposals should proceed and, if so, under what terms 18· ·and conditions, and then report its determination to 19· ·the minister; and, 5, to monitor projects in accordance 20· ·with the provisions of the Nunavut Land Claim 21· ·Agreement. 22· · · · The rules of procedure continues.· In carrying out 23· ·its functions, the procedure objectives of the Nunavut 24· ·Impact Review Board are at all times to protect and 25· ·promote the existing and future well-being of the 26· ·residents and communities of the Nunavut settlement ·1· ·area and to protect the ecosystemic integrity of the ·2· ·Nunavut settlement area.· Nunavut Impact Review Board ·3· ·is also required to take into account the well-being of ·4· ·residents of Canada outside the Nunavut settlement ·5· ·area. ·6· · · · The January 25, 2021, to February 6th, 2021, final ·7· ·public hearing have disadvantaged participation by ·8· ·limiting numbers of people able to attend at both hubs ·9· ·in Pond Inlet and Iqaluit due to public health 10· ·restrictions based on COVID-19 remaining in Nunavut. 11· · · · The final public hearing has disadvantaged Elder 12· ·participation by leaving microphones available only at 13· ·the front of the room rather than at the tables where 14· ·Elders are sitting. 15· · · · The final public hearing has fallen -- now it's 16· ·six days behind schedule due to questions raised by the 17· ·parties being evaded by the proponent as a result of 18· ·intervenors requiring more questions to seek responses, 19· ·which should inform Nunavut Impact Review Board. 20· · · · The limits set by Nunavut Impact Review Board to 21· ·three questions in the first round and two questions in 22· ·the final round does not allow for full questioning of 23· ·the proponent, therefore resulting in Nunavut Impact 24· ·Review Board not being fully informed to make its 25· ·recommendations to the appropriate ministers. 26· · · · The final public hearing have allowed the ·1· ·proponent to consistently evade responses and not ·2· ·providing sufficient information for the Nunavut Impact ·3· ·Review Board to make informed recommendations. ·4· · · · The final public hearing and the presentation ·5· ·material used by the proponent raises more questions ·6· ·than inform Nunavut Impact Review Board, which will ·7· ·result in Nunavut Impact Review Board not being able to ·8· ·make informed recommendations. ·9· · · · The proponent has consistently evaded answers by 10· ·saying, Information is in the Nunavut Impact Review 11· ·Board public registry.· And it is extremely challenging 12· ·to find all referenced materials resulting in time 13· ·being spent looking for additional details as not 14· ·provided by the proponent during the hearing. 15· · · · Nunavut Impact Review Board has now instructed the 16· ·rest of the presentations to be provided by the 17· ·proponent will be -- will have to be summarized further 18· ·in the interest of time.· The parties and especially 19· ·the Elders are not able to completely analyze the 20· ·presentation material, given the lack of information 21· ·contained in each PowerPoint presentation. 22· · · · If the Nunavut Impact Review Board grants the 23· ·alternative motion, the community representatives must 24· ·not be split between hubs.· This current setting 25· ·prevents the communities from caucusing and 26· ·coordinating their questions.· This notice of motion is ·1· ·supported by an affidavit sworn by Moses Koonoo made on ·2· ·January 30. ·3· · · · Moses Koonoo's affidavit states that he is from ·4· ·Arctic Bay, Nunavut, and made -- makes oath and says as ·5· ·follows:· (as read) ·6· · · · I am the vice chair of the Ikajutit Arctic ·7· · · · Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization, and I ·8· · · · make this affidavit based on my own ·9· · · · knowledge.· I have been present every day at 10· · · · the Nunavut Impact Review Board public 11· · · · hearings on Baffinland Iron Mines' 12· · · · application on the Phase 2 proposal since the 13· · · · first day on January 25, 2021.· As an Inuk, I 14· · · · am a beneficiary of the Nunavut Land Claim 15· · · · Agreement which confirmed the protection of 16· · · · my rights as an Inuk, including harvesting 17· · · · rights, all of which remain central to my 18· · · · community's existence.· I have personal 19· · · · knowledge that Inuit continue to rely heavily 20· · · · on caribou, seal, narwhal, beluga, fish, and 21· · · · other wildlife, all of which, I understand, 22· · · · will be significantly impacted by 23· · · · Baffinland's proposed expansion in Phase 2 of 24· · · · the Mary River mine.· The Ikajutit has the 25· · · · responsibility to manage harvesting rights 26· · · · among our members.· Our members are the ·1· · · · residents of Arctic Bay.· As such, we take ·2· · · · our role very seriously.· The Mary River mine ·3· · · · is the largest resources development in ·4· · · · Nunavut and also has the longest proposed ·5· · · · life span of any project and is within the ·6· · · · area we reside and exercise our rights in. ·7· · · · The decision by the Nunavut Impact Review ·8· · · · Board to reconvene the hearing for the ·9· · · · project during COVID-19 pandemic creates 10· · · · significant challenges for Inuit 11· · · · participation, some of which call to question 12· · · · the fairness of the proceedings.· Our 13· · · · members' engagement has been severely limited 14· · · · since the beginning of the hearing on 15· · · · January 25, 2021.· I make this affidavit in 16· · · · support of the notice of motion filed on 17· · · · January 30 with the Board on January 30, 18· · · · 2021. 19· ·Qujannamiik. 20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·And now I turn to the replies 21· ·to the motion of the registered intervenors and 22· ·Baffinland. 23· · · · Specifically, the Board is asking whether your 24· ·organization supports the motion, does not support the 25· ·motion, or takes no position with respect to the motion 26· ·and why.· For parties who are represented by legal ·1· ·counsel, I will be asking your legal counsel to reply. ·2· · · · Qikiqtani Inuit Association, Lorraine Land. ·3· ·Submissions by Qikiqtani Inuit Association (Motion) ·4· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·5· ·MS. LAND:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. ·6· ·Lorraine Land, legal counsel for the Qikiqtani Inuit ·7· ·Association.· Can you confirm that you can hear me? ·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Yes, you can proceed. ·9· ·MS. LAND:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. 10· · · · The Qikiqtani Inuit Association has no issues with 11· ·the relief being sought by Ikajutit and its motion and 12· ·sees this motion as consistent with the motion brought 13· ·by the Mittimatalik Hunter and Trappers Organization. 14· · · · Madam Chair, the Qikiqtani Inuit Association urges 15· ·the Board particularly to look carefully at a case 16· ·which was relied on by Baffinland in its motion 17· ·response to the Mittimatalik Hunter and Trappers 18· ·Organization motion.· That case is called the 19· ·Tsleil-Waututh case, and I will spell it out for the 20· ·record.· It's T-S-L-E-I-L, and then W-A-U-T-U-T-H. 21· · · · We raise that because this case is important to 22· ·look at carefully when determining what is procedurally 23· ·fair in ruling on this motion and the previous motion. 24· ·It is a case that Baffinland relies on in its response 25· ·to the previous motion.· It is a decision about 26· ·procedural fairness issues that arose during a National ·1· ·Energy Board review of the Trans Mountain Pipeline ·2· ·proposal.· It is also relevant to this motion. ·3· · · · Baffinland's summary of that case points to ·4· ·paragraphs that summarize two other cases, a case ·5· ·called "Manitoba Taxi Cab", and a case called the ·6· ·"Chippewas of the Thames".· The quotes from those ·7· ·cases, which Baffinland points to, say there is no ·8· ·procedural right to oral cross-examination, which is ·9· ·one of the issues which comes up in this motion as 10· ·well. 11· · · · We urge your Board to read the rest of the 12· ·decision past the paragraphs quoted by Baffinland. 13· ·That is because the Federal Court of Appeal actually 14· ·distinguishes those other cases that it quotes and then 15· ·does its own analysis of what is procedurally fair.· In 16· ·fact, in the very next paragraphs after the ones quoted 17· ·to you, the Federal Court of Appeal says that those 18· ·cases do not bind their decision, and then they do 19· ·their own procedural fairness analysis based on the 20· ·Supreme Court's leading case on procedural fairness, 21· ·which is the Baker case. 22· · · · And the Federal Court of Appeal points out that in 23· ·another Trans Mountain proceeding, that it was 24· ·appropriate to have oral cross-examinations because 25· ·there were only 206 intervenors in that previous 26· ·proceeding but that in the case before them, oral ·1· ·cross-examination was a burden because they were ·2· ·dealing with over 400 intervenors in the National ·3· ·Energy Board review.· We are not talking about anything ·4· ·near that scope of intervenor participation in this ·5· ·process. ·6· · · · And, most importantly, the Federal Court of Appeal ·7· ·goes on to point out that it was appropriate ·8· ·specifically for the Sto:Lo First Nation, as a First ·9· ·Nation party, to have the opportunity to choose whether 10· ·to use written or oral cross-examination unlike the 11· ·City of Burnaby, which was asking for oral 12· ·cross-examination rights. 13· · · · I would also note that the Chippewas of the Thames 14· ·case, which Baffinland points to in the previous 15· ·motion, was decided at the exact same time that the 16· ·Supreme Court considered the Clyde River case.· As you 17· ·know, in Clyde River, the Supreme Court looked at the 18· ·specific situation of the guaranteed modern treaty 19· ·rights for Inuit participation and that -- the specific 20· ·context of Inuit communities in the North Baffin 21· ·participating in a review where there were substantial 22· ·impacts on Inuit rights. 23· · · · Clyde River is the more appropriate case that you 24· ·should consider when looking at what procedural 25· ·fairness should entail in this specific situation, and 26· ·it raises some similar procedural questions, as we have ·1· ·in this proceeding.· At their root, those are questions ·2· ·about Inuit participation rights for a project with ·3· ·serious impacts on Inuit rights in the context of the ·4· ·procedural rights that are guaranteed in the modern ·5· ·treaty that is the Nunavut Agreement. ·6· · · · The Qikiqtani Inuit Association is concerned that ·7· ·the right to oral participation of Inuit specifically ·8· ·should not be prejudiced by the Board procedures during ·9· ·this review.· Baffinland in its response to the 10· ·Mittimatalik Hunter and Trappers Organization's motion 11· ·proposes some amendments to the process to help resolve 12· ·the pressures which we are all facing to complete the 13· ·remaining evidence in this public hearing. 14· · · · The Qikiqtani Inuit Association agrees that 15· ·bundling some presentations or even bundling some sets 16· ·of questions may be appropriate.· However, limiting the 17· ·ability of Inuit parties to ask questions orally during 18· ·the technical meeting and asking them to rely only on 19· ·later written questions and responses for technical 20· ·matters is not appropriate. 21· · · · In addition, the Baffinland proposal appears to me 22· ·that only community representatives at the community 23· ·roundtable would be able to ask questions about the 24· ·evidence orally and only if there is time; that a 25· ·number of intervenors, like the Qikiqtani Inuit 26· ·Association, Nunavut Tunngavik, the Government of ·1· ·Canada, and other parties could not ask questions at ·2· ·the community roundtable; and that there would be no ·3· ·further questions in this whole process allowed to ·4· ·intervenors who are not community organizations or ·5· ·board staff or board members. ·6· · · · Baffinland is suggesting this as a resolution that ·7· ·would allow the Board to squeeze all the remaining ·8· ·technical evidence, all the remaining party ·9· ·presentations, and all the community roundtable 10· ·evidence into the remaining six days.· The Qikiqtani 11· ·Inuit Association does not agree that this addresses 12· ·the procedural concerns that were raised in this 13· ·Ikajutit motion or the previous Mittimatalik Hunter and 14· ·Trappers Organization motion. 15· · · · We, therefore, submit that we support the Ikajutit 16· ·motion to extend the hearing, and we leave it to your 17· ·discretion to determine the appropriate dates.· Thank 18· ·you, Madam Chair. 19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik 20· ·Incorporated, Neida Gonzalez. 21· ·Submissions by Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated (Motion) 22· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 23· ·MS. GONZALEZ:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Neida 24· ·Gonzalez, legal counsel, Nunavut Tunngavik. 25· · · · Nunavut Tunngavik has no issues with the remedies 26· ·sought by the motion submitted by the Ikajutit Hunters ·1· ·and Trappers Organization to the extent that the remedy ·2· ·support the completion of the technical sessions and ·3· ·community roundtable, as described in our previous ·4· ·reply. ·5· · · · Nunavut Tunngavik also agrees with the added ·6· ·clarifications provided by the Qikiqtani Inuit ·7· ·Association's legal counsel on the legal precedence for ·8· ·oral cross-examinations.· Nunavut Tunngavik stresses ·9· ·the importance of allowing all intervenors the 10· ·opportunity to table and question the evidence orally 11· ·during the technical sessions in keeping with the 12· ·obligation in the Nunavut Agreement for the Board to 13· ·give due regard and weight to Inuit oral communication 14· ·and decision-making in its procedures. 15· · · · Lastly, NTI submits that there is a legitimate 16· ·expectation in this process that there will be oral 17· ·cross-examinations by intervenors in these technical 18· ·sessions.· Qujannamiik, Madam Chair. 19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet, Frank 20· ·Tester. 21· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Pond Inlet (Motion) (Ikajutit 22· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 23· ·MR. TESTER:· · · · · · · Madam Chair, the Hamlet of 24· ·Pond Inlet. 25· · · · Being familiar with the cases in relationship to 26· ·the Trans Mountain Pipeline, having been involved in ·1· ·that issue, it draws particular attention to the ·2· ·remarks and observations made by the lawyer for the ·3· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association and the absolute importance ·4· ·of paying attention to the Clyde River case and the ·5· ·ultimate ruling of the Supreme Court of Canada.· Thank ·6· ·you, Madam Chair. ·7· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·8· ·Trappers Organization, Eamon Murphy. ·9· ·Submissions by Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers 10· ·Organization (Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and 11· ·Trappers Organization) 12· ·MR. MURPHY:· · · · · · · Mittimatalik Hunters and 13· ·Trappers Organization, Eamon Murphy, legal counsel. 14· ·Qujannamiik, Madam Chair. 15· · · · Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization 16· ·support the motion being brought by the Ikajutit 17· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization.· It is largely 18· ·seeking the same relief as the motion that we have 19· ·brought, and to the extent that those two motions are 20· ·consistent, we support the relief that they are 21· ·seeking. 22· · · · I also concur with the comments made by Ms. Land 23· ·on behalf of the Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· I'm glad 24· ·she raised those two cases that Baffinland has relied 25· ·upon, and explained to this Board that the cases, as 26· ·presented, are much broader in scope and, in fact, ·1· ·address a much more robust view of procedural fairness ·2· ·that is being presented by Baffinland.· And, indeed, ·3· ·the cases don't address the particular situation which ·4· ·has happened here, which is the change midstream in the ·5· ·process, so we concur with the comments that Ms. Land ·6· ·has made. ·7· · · · And I would further add that there was no ·8· ·intention in the earlier motion, that we suggested a ·9· ·cross-examination was a presentation.· It's an 10· ·opportunity to orally test the evidence of Baffinland, 11· ·and so the two motions before you are both advocating 12· ·for that, and that is the purpose of the 13· ·cross-examination here.· Madam Chair, Qujannamiik. 14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Community of Igloolik, 15· ·Igloolik Working Group, Igloolik Hunters and Trappers 16· ·Organization, Peter Ivalu. 17· ·Submissions by Community of Igloolik, Igloolik Working 18· ·Group, Igloolik Hunters and Trappers Organization 19· ·(Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 20· ·Organization) 21· ·MR. IVALU:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· Peter 22· ·Ivalu.· Community of Igloolik, Igloolik Working Group, 23· ·and Igloolik Hunters and Trappers Organization. 24· · · · We support the motion brought by Ikajutit Hunters 25· ·and Trappers Organization.· Inuit need to be heard and 26· ·be able to ask questions to the proponent and to all ·1· ·parties involved in these hearings.· Under the Nunavut ·2· ·Land Claims Agreement, Nunavut Impact Review Board's ·3· ·hearings were supposed to honour Inuit oral traditions ·4· ·in decision-making.· By not extending the hearings as ·5· ·requested by both Ikajutit Hunters and Trappers ·6· ·Organization and Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers ·7· ·Organization, it prejudices the Inuit and impacted ·8· ·communities. ·9· · · · All the communities had agreed to the Mittimatalik 10· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization motion to delay the 11· ·hearings, and, previously, Mittimatalik Hunters and 12· ·Trappers Organization had requested more time to be 13· ·able to ask questions, but they were not granted the 14· ·opportunity. 15· · · · To stop the hearings now, we're at this point, it 16· ·is unfair to us Inuit and the impacted communities. 17· ·Inuit and the impacted communities will not be heard by 18· ·your Board by not extending the -- these proceedings as 19· ·brought forward by both Ikajutit Hunters and Trappers 20· ·Organization and Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers 21· ·Organization. 22· · · · But we leave it to NIRB's discretion to decide on 23· ·when the extension would be.· Thank you, Madam Chair. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers 25· ·Organization, Okalik Eegeesiak. 26· ·Submissions by Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers ·1· ·Organization (Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and ·2· ·Trappers Organization) ·3· ·MS. EEGEESIAK:· · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chairman. ·4· ·Okalik Eegeesiak, representing Sanirajak Hunters and ·5· ·Trappers Association. ·6· · · · The Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers Organization ·7· ·supports the Ikajutit submission, motion, and echo the ·8· ·Igloolik Working Group's comments about needing more ·9· ·time, that the Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers 10· ·Organization had also written a letter of support 11· ·requesting that the hearings be postponed until at 12· ·least the threat of COVID is over as well as having 13· ·asked for additional time.· Thank you, Madam Chair. 14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Sanirajak, Louis 15· ·Primeau. 16· ·MR. PRIMEAU:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 17· · · · The Hamlet of Sanirajak is in support of the 18· ·motion of the Ikajutit Hunters and Trappers Association 19· ·to the extent that none of the arguments put forward 20· ·take away from anything that was in the motion from the 21· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Association for which 22· ·the Hamlet of Sanirajak already supported. 23· · · · Without having the benefit of legal counsel to 24· ·advise, I'm not sure whether the suggested schedule in 25· ·the Ikajutit Hunters and Trappers Association motion 26· ·would take away from the argument that basically there ·1· ·should be unfettered ability to ask questions, whether ·2· ·it fits within this -- the schedule suggested or not, ·3· ·and for -- for those reasons and those reasons alone, ·4· ·the Hamlet of Sanirajak takes no position on this ·5· ·motion.· Thank you. ·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Arctic Bay, Lori ·7· ·Idlout. ·8· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Arctic Bay (Motion) (Ikajutit ·9· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 10· ·MS. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · Hamlet of of Arctic Bay, Lori 11· ·Idlout. 12· · · · The Hamlet of Arctic Bay, Lori Idlout.· The hamlet 13· ·of -- I had spoken with Olayuk Naqitarvik who is here 14· ·representing the Hamlet of Arctic Bay, and he agreed to 15· ·the motion.· Qujannamiik. 16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Clyde River, Jerry 17· ·Natanine. 18· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Clyde River (Motion) (Ikajutit 19· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 20· ·MR. NATANINE:· · · · · · Jerry Natanine, Hamlet of 21· ·Clyde River, and also Nangmautaq Hunters and Trappers. 22· · · · My colleague and I are in support of the motion. 23· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Amaruq Hunters and Trappers 25· ·Organization, Meeka Mike. 26· ·Submissions by Amaruq Hunters and Trappers Organization ·1· ·(Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers ·2· ·Organization) ·3· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · Madam Chair, Jeetaloo will ·4· ·lead here -- lead off here. ·5· ·MR. KAKEE:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·6· ·Jeetaloo Kakee, Iqaluit Hunters and Trappers, Elder and ·7· ·hunter. ·8· · · · My appointment to represent Iqaluit have no limit ·9· ·when I can represent my community.· As we understand 10· ·it, the delay will be very positive or is very 11· ·positive.· If there is a good reason and this hearing 12· ·continues on, we see no problem, so we continue to 13· ·support the motion.· So I'll give -- I'll give the 14· ·floor now to Meeka. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Meeka Mike. 16· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Meeka 17· ·Mike, hunters -- Amaruq Hunters and Trappers 18· ·representative. 19· · · · We support the motion.· We -- we will -- it will 20· ·give us extra rights, and we will continue to 21· ·participate here.· The questions -- there are numerous 22· ·questions that we have, and we are here without any -- 23· ·any support which was not intended when they -- when 24· ·HTOs were established, and we are -- and we are in 25· ·support of the motion, as Lori commented on.· Thank 26· ·you. ·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Government of Nunavut, Emily ·2· ·Stockley. ·3· ·Submissions by Government of Nunavut (Motion) (Ikajutit ·4· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·5· ·MS. STOCKLEY:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Emily ·6· ·Stockley, legal counsel, Government of Nunavut. ·7· · · · We take no position with respect to this motion ·8· ·and defer to the NIRB's -- sorry, the Nunavut Impact ·9· ·Review Board's best judgement in rescheduling 10· ·additional days. 11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Department of Justice 12· ·representing the Government of Canada intervenors, 13· ·Simon Gruda-Dolbec. 14· ·Submissions by Department of Justice (Motion) (Ikajutit 15· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 16· ·MR. GRUDA-DOLBEC:· · · · Simon Gruda-Dolbec, legal 17· ·counsel for the Department of Justice Canada. 18· · · · As indicated with respect to the previous motion 19· ·by the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization, 20· ·the Government of Canada supports extending the hearing 21· ·while finding efficiencies in the process to complete 22· ·the hearing as soon as practically possible. 23· · · · The Government of Canada would also like to point 24· ·out that it is in disagreement with the general 25· ·statements made in the present motion to the effect 26· ·that the proponent has generally been evasive in ·1· ·answering questions or not answering questions to date ·2· ·in these hearings, although the Government of Canada ·3· ·also recognizes that the communities still have many ·4· ·questions on the project.· Qujannamiik. ·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Oceans North, Christopher ·6· ·Debicki. ·7· ·Submissions by Oceans North (Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic ·8· ·Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·9· ·MR. DEBICKI:· · · · · · ·Christopher Debicki, legal 10· ·counsel for Oceans North. 11· · · · Madam Chair, Baffinland's counsel suggests that we 12· ·need to limit questioning from parties so that we can 13· ·hear from all parties.· Now, with great respect, Madam 14· ·Chair, no one is asking Baffinland about how their 15· ·breakfast was at the Frob.· The questions asked and the 16· ·questions not answered go to the very core of this 17· ·project proposal, and I would add to that, the 18· ·questions not permitted to be asked go to the very core 19· ·of the issues with which this Board is wrestling. 20· · · · Now, I agree with Ms. Land's characterization of 21· ·the law as it applies and should be applied in this 22· ·instance, and so I won't use more of this important 23· ·time except to support the -- the proposition that the 24· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association provided in the manner in 25· ·which they described the law which this Board should 26· ·consider. ·1· · · · Now, Madam Chair, it's our position that the ·2· ·record -- were we to proceed as has been proposed by ·3· ·the proponent, the record will not be sufficient for ·4· ·the Board and the responsible ministers ultimately to ·5· ·make an informed decision in this instance.· And so for ·6· ·those reasons, we support this motion in principle and ·7· ·defer to wiser parties with respect to the specific ·8· ·timing and dates of any required extension.· Thank you, ·9· ·Madam Chair. 10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·World Wildlife Fund, Paul 11· ·Okalik. 12· ·Submissions by World Wildlife Fund (Motion) (Ikajutit 13· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 14· ·MR. OKALIK:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Paul 15· ·Okalik, World Wildlife Organization Fund. 16· · · · The motion is similar to Mittimatalik Hunters and 17· ·Trappers Association's motion, and it will be in your 18· ·discretion when will be the best time, and we will be 19· ·available at any time you decide, so we give -- we give 20· ·that to your discretion. 21· · · · And I would like to thank counsel for QIA who 22· ·clarified the rights of Inuit that you heard and how -- 23· ·and where our rights lay, and -- and for the 24· ·clarification, we are appreciative of how -- in that 25· ·there.· Thank you, Madam Chair. 26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Independent Television ·1· ·Network, Isabelle Gilles. ·2· ·Submissions by Nunavut Independent Television Network ·3· ·(Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers ·4· ·Organization) ·5· ·MS. GILLES:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. ·6· ·Isabelle Gilles for the Nunavut Independent Television ·7· ·Network. ·8· · · · The Nunavut Independent Television Network ·9· ·supports the motion to extend the technical session for 10· ·the reasons given previously regarding the Mittimatalik 11· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization's motions and leaves 12· ·it to the Board's discretion to determine how and when 13· ·it is best to have additional hearings. 14· · · · The Nunavut Independent Television Network will do 15· ·its part to collaborate with the Board and other 16· ·parties to participate in and broadcast additional 17· ·hearings on Uvagut TV.· Thank you, Madam Chair. 18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Brad Armstrong. 19· ·Submissions by Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation 20· ·(Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 21· ·Organization) 22· ·MR. ARMSTRONG:· · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· Brad 23· ·Armstrong, legal counsel for Baffinland. 24· · · · Madam Chair, I will be very brief.· We do not 25· ·support the motion.· We do disagree with many of the 26· ·statements made in support of the motion, and -- and, ·1· ·Madam Chair, we thank the counsel for the Government of ·2· ·Canada to make that point as well, in particular with ·3· ·respect to Baffinland's response to questions. ·4· · · · Our overall response to the motion, Madam Chair, ·5· ·is we encourage the Board to complete this public ·6· ·hearing on schedule, as indicated in our response to ·7· ·the -- to the previous motion. ·8· · · · Madam Chair, I just want to respond to the legal ·9· ·statements of Ms. Land, the legal counsel for the QIA. 10· ·In our view, she has not properly characterized the 11· ·case law, and I will only say this:· Ms. Land suggested 12· ·that in the Tsleil-Waututh case, which is referred to 13· ·in our written response, she said that the Sto:lo First 14· ·Nation was given the opportunity to cross-examine 15· ·either orally or in writing. 16· · · · Paragraph 258 of the case states that the Sto:lo 17· ·were given the opportunity to make their presentation 18· ·either orally or in writing.· It was not about 19· ·cross-examination at all.· The cases are very clear, 20· ·Madam Chair, that a board like your Board has the 21· ·discretion to determine the extent of 22· ·cross-examination. 23· · · · And, Madam Chair, just a point -- a brief point of 24· ·clarification on the economic summary, which we 25· ·proposed to present as -- as an exhibit.· The actual 26· ·date of that economic summary is on the cover, ·1· ·January 29, 2021.· The summary actually includes ·2· ·financial information which goes right through the end ·3· ·of 2019, and the author in the -- in the headers on the ·4· ·pages has simply not updated the -- the date. ·5· · · · We will update the date.· We'll ask the author to ·6· ·update the date on the headers to coincide with the ·7· ·date of the report itself, which is January 29, 2021. ·8· ·Thank you, Madam Chair.· Those are all of our ·9· ·submissions. 10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Thank you to all for 11· ·presenting your motions and responses.· The Panel 12· ·reserves our decision and procedural direction until 13· ·such time as we can convene for disposition of motions. 14· · · · We will continue this afternoon with questions to 15· ·the marine environment, and the evening session that 16· ·was scheduled for today will be adjourned so that the 17· ·Board can consider the motions that have been 18· ·presented.· So we will reconvene today with questions 19· ·to the marine environment at 1:15. 20· ·______21· ·PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED UNTIL 1:15 PM 22· ·______23· ·(PROCEEDINGS COMMENCED AT 1:20 PM) 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Welcome back, everyone. 25· ·Continuing with questions to Baffinland on the marine 26· ·environment. ·1· · · · Starting where we left off, questions from ·2· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization, ·3· · Eric Ootoovak.· Can you confirm who your parties will ·4· ·be? ·5· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization ·6· ·Questions Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation ·7· ·MR. OOTOOVAK:· · · · · · Good evening from Mittimatalik ·8· ·HTO.· Thank you, Madam Chair. ·9· · · · Before we adjourned yesterday -- Saturday night, 10· ·Valerie was asking questions, and she didn't finish, 11· ·and Eamon Murphy said there's questions, Amanda 12· ·Hanson-Main also. 13· · · · They said they have more questions to relay and if 14· ·we could get back to the last person who was asking 15· ·questions Saturday night from the Hunters and Trappers 16· ·Association of Mittimatalik. 17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 18· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 19· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Do 20· ·you have the feed? 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Yes.· You may proceed. 22· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·(INUKTITUT SPOKEN - NO 23· ·TRANSLATION). 24· · · · We left off on Saturday evening having asked 25· ·Baffinland if they agree that determining project 26· ·effects on marine mammal populations is not the same as ·1· ·determining impacts on Inuit harvesting of marine ·2· ·mammals, and I believe that Lou Kamermans agreed that ·3· ·there is -- there is a difference there.· So I ·4· ·appreciate that. ·5· · · · Baffinland's final environmental impact statement ·6· ·says that:· (as read) ·7· · · · Since the project is not predicted to result ·8· · · · in decreases in marine mammal populations, ·9· · · · the Phase 2 proposal is unlikely to affect 10· · · · the harvesting of marine mammals. 11· ·It's not clear whether your conclusions that the 12· ·potential impact on the quantity of marine mammals 13· ·harvested by level of effort have actually incorporated 14· ·any information about effort level. 15· · · · You refer to levels of harvesting from 2013 to 16· ·2015 in your final environmental impact statement, 17· ·Technical Supporting Document 25.· What were the effort 18· ·levels of harvesting for those same years? 19· ·Qujannamiik. 20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 21· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 22· · · · I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond.· Thank you. 23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. 24· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. 25· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 26· · · · As I said previously on Saturday, this was ·1· ·expanded on in the food security assessment where we ·2· ·looked at more factors than availability, including ·3· ·access.· So the concept of harvesting effort was ·4· ·considered in that assessment.· Thank you. ·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·6· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·7· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. ·8· · · · In reviewing your food security assessment, we ·9· ·were unable to locate information regarding effort 10· ·levels for harvesting.· We understand that access may 11· ·not reflect the effort level that is put forward for 12· ·harvesting.· Can you confirm that you would agree with 13· ·that?· Qujannamiik. 14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 15· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 16· ·I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond. 17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. 18· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. 19· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 20· · · · Effort level was considered in a qualitative 21· ·context.· It wasn't supported by -- by data, and we did 22· ·acknowledge that there would be impairment of 23· ·accessibility of wildlife in our considerations of 24· ·potential impacts to Inuit food security and by 25· ·association harvesting. 26· · · · Level of effort is also an area of ongoing ·1· ·discussion, and we think an eligible indicator for ·2· ·ongoing monitoring in relation to the project.· Thank ·3· ·you. ·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·5· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·6· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. ·7· · · · In the interest of time, we'll move on from the ·8· ·lack of qualitative data that was supporting the ·9· ·statements around harvest level by effort noting that 10· ·there were numbers associated with the level of 11· ·harvests that -- successful harvests.· But that brings 12· ·me to my next question.· We didn't find any -- pardon 13· ·me.· Your technical supporting documents also noted 14· ·that there has been an increase in successful harvests 15· ·correlated with those 2013, '15 numbers, also relevant 16· ·to the slide which was provided through your 17· ·presentation showing the catches over years. 18· · · · I didn't see -- we didn't find any definitions in 19· ·your supporting documents or other materials of what 20· ·you considered to be a successful harvest.· Can you 21· ·confirm what a successful harvest means?· Qujannamiik. 22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 23· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 24· ·I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond. 25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. 26· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. ·1· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·2· · · · In that context, the statement was made in ·3· ·relation to the absolute levels of harvesting and the ·4· ·fact that greater numbers of narwhal were being landed, ·5· ·taken home, and available to the community of Pond ·6· ·Inlet than in any previous year prior to the project ·7· ·being in operation.· Thank you. ·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·9· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 10· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. 11· · · · So, to confirm, do you have any information, I 12· ·guess, relating to the -- you had said before nothing 13· ·about really the effort level that wasn't quantified. 14· · · · In terms of the definition of success, is that 15· ·also qualitative?· So there is no information whether 16· ·harvesters came home with only one narwhal or seal, 17· ·whether the narwhal had a tusk, whether they were young 18· ·or old or fat.· There was no consideration of those 19· ·qualifications in the definition of a successful 20· ·harvest? 21· · · · And, furthermore, do you have any information 22· ·about the number of unsuccessful harvests?· How many 23· ·have there been in those years?· Qujannamiik. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 25· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 26· · · · I think some good questions have been raised ·1· ·there, and I think what we're indicating in the food ·2· ·security assessment and in the graph on Slide 55 is ·3· ·just looking at the data that's self-reported by the ·4· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization, it ·5· ·shows that five of the seven highest harvest years have ·6· ·occurred since 2013 while the project has been ·7· ·operating, and there's been increased shipping. ·8· · · · It's also important to note that the data is the ·9· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization, and 10· ·we've had ongoing discussions around harvesting effort, 11· ·and it would be their decision to share with us any 12· ·information on unsuccessful harvest. 13· · · · But recognizing that discussions on harvesting 14· ·efforts have changed led to the development of the 15· ·harvesters enabling program as well as some of the 16· ·other funding to help support harvesters as efforts may 17· ·be changing in relation to the project or the 18· ·environment.· Thank you. 19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 20· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 21· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 22· ·you, for that, Megan. 23· · · · So we understand that there has been little 24· ·information collected.· We heard you just say that the 25· ·data or information about harvesting is for the 26· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization to ·1· ·provide.· Has Baffinland inquired?· Have you conducted ·2· ·any specific workshop or interview or done any ·3· ·qualitative research with the Mittimatalik hunters or ·4· ·those from other communities about harvest effort ·5· ·level?· Specifically asking about the distance ·6· ·travelled, days camped, hours spent, weeks in some ·7· ·cases spent, the success rate per unit effort, or the ·8· ·value for catch?· Have you asked about the weight or ·9· ·volume of muktuk harvested, which is a direct 10· ·reflection of animal health and is very -- (INTERPRETER 11· ·BELL) (INUKTITUT SPOKEN - NO TRANSLATION).· Have you 12· ·asked about the distance travelled?· The days camped? 13· ·Hours or weeks spent?· The success rate per hunting 14· ·trip or the value for the catch?· We're talking about 15· ·the weight or volume of muktuk, the dollar value, that 16· ·is a direct reflection of animal health and is 17· ·important to Inuit's measurement of a successful 18· ·harvest.· Have you asked for any of that?· Qujannamiik. 19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 20· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Yes.· Megan Lord-Hoyle, 21· ·Baffinland. 22· · · · Yes.· We have inquired.· We've asked for data, 23· ·perhaps not all of the specifics of what was just 24· ·listed, but certainly some of that information we've 25· ·asked specifically to help us better understand the 26· ·impacts to the community.· Thank you. ·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·2· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·3· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·4· ·you, Megan, for that response. ·5· · · · If you've asked for that information, we just ·6· ·heard that your consideration of harvest effort is ·7· ·qualitative.· We do not see that you've incorporated ·8· ·any information from Inuit harvesters that would ·9· ·actually and accurately suggest there has been an 10· ·increase in successful harvests and specifically by 11· ·effort level. 12· · · · Would you agree that Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit has 13· ·had little input to your predictions and conclusions 14· ·about project level impacts to marine mammals and on 15· ·impacts to harvesting of marine mammals?· Qujannamiik. 16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 17· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · No.· Megan Lord-Hoyle, 18· ·Baffinland. 19· · · · No.· We do not agree with those statements.· As I 20· ·mentioned, we have had ongoing discussions on these 21· ·topics that have informed both our mitigation measures, 22· ·which includes additional support programs directly 23· ·related to changes in harvesting efforts.· Thank you. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 25· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 26· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. ·1· · · · One follow-up question to this and I'll move on to ·2· ·another line of questions.· Megan, thank you. ·3· · · · You just said that you've had ongoing discussions ·4· ·and that these have informed mitigation measures and ·5· ·have developed supports such as the harvesters enabling ·6· ·program.· Does Baffinland consider compensating Inuit ·7· ·for lost harvesting ability or a decrease in successful ·8· ·harvesting to be an appropriate mitigation? ·9· ·Qujannamiik. 10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 11· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 12· · · · No.· We don't believe that that is the only 13· ·appropriate form of mitigation.· It's a combination of 14· ·avoidance and compensation.· Thank you. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 16· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 17· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 18· ·you, Megan. 19· · · · Your materials state that the impact on the 20· ·quantity of marine mammals harvested by level of effort 21· ·is determined to be of low magnitude.· Considering that 22· ·you've undertaken only a qualitative review of this 23· ·information, what is low magnitude -- (INTERPRETER 24· ·BELL) (INUKTITUT SPOKEN - NO TRANSLATION).· Sorry. 25· · · · So if the impact on the number of marine mammals 26· ·harvested by effort level you say is low magnitude but ·1· ·you haven't undertaken a quantitative review of data in ·2· ·that regard -- you haven't looked at numbers -- what do ·3· ·you define "low magnitude" to be in this case? ·4· ·Qujannamiik. ·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·6· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.· Lou ·7· ·Kamermans will respond.· Thank you. ·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. ·9· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. 10· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 11· · · · So we arrived at this conclusion through the food 12· ·security assessment based on first and foremost 13· ·consideration of available community perspectives as 14· ·well as available Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit. 15· · · · Part of this body included the results of the 16· ·Tusaqtavut studies that were available at the time, and 17· ·it also involved information gathered through dedicated 18· ·meetings with the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers 19· ·Organization through a series of meetings specific to 20· ·harvesting experiences in relation to the project. 21· · · · We then considered not just the availability of 22· ·wildlife based on the outcomes of our biological 23· ·focused effects assessments, but we considered the 24· ·large amount of mitigations we were putting in place to 25· ·address potential concerns around harvesting effort. 26· · · · So that includes the already available Pond Inlet ·1· ·specific harvesters enabling program.· It also ·2· ·considers the -- the benefits provided to the Hamlet of ·3· ·Pond Inlet and the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers ·4· ·Organization through the Tasiuqtiit Working Group. ·5· ·This working group provides funding to the community to ·6· ·support community wellness initiatives, which we ·7· ·believe food security would fall under and, by ·8· ·association, harvesting rights. ·9· · · · It also considers our approach towards adaptive 10· ·management, something that's been available and on the 11· ·record since early in 2019.· It's important to know 12· ·that plan has been formed and was submitted prior to 13· ·the Inuit Certainty Agreement.· It always envisioned an 14· ·approach towards adaptive management based on a tiered 15· ·system, one that considers low, moderate, and high 16· ·thresholds, and we believe having that type of system, 17· ·low thresholds providing an opportunity for us to 18· ·prevent any potential impact we hadn't anticipated, 19· ·with all of that in mind, we were able to come to the 20· ·conclusions we did.· And the conclusion was that based 21· ·on the available community perspectives considered 22· ·qualitatively, there is also quantitative data 23· ·available to us showing that there is more successful 24· ·harvesting happening while the project has been 25· ·operational than previous to it.· That is an objective 26· ·measure.· There is more before -- there is more now ·1· ·than before. ·2· · · · It is on an effort basis, but we think with the ·3· ·application of mitigation that our conclusion is valid, ·4· ·that the impact on harvesting effort is of low ·5· ·magnitude because we don't expect to have a noticeable ·6· ·impact because we will actually be providing funds that ·7· ·will enable more hunting. ·8· · · · With that being said, all of this -- we will ·9· ·always look to work with the Mittimatalik Hunters and 10· ·Trappers Organization as well as other members of the 11· ·community of Pond Inlet to better understand how 12· ·hunting experiences are changing in relation to 13· ·Phase 2. 14· · · · We believe the Inuit stewardship plan will support 15· ·this framework, and we understand the importance of 16· ·collaboration moving forward to monitor and manage the 17· ·potential effects of the Phase 2 proposal.· Thank you. 18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 19· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 20· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 21· ·you, Lou. 22· · · · That was a very long response, which I don't think 23· ·answered the question:· What is low magnitude in this 24· ·case?· I understand that may be too involved to get 25· ·into, so I appreciate the long information that you 26· ·provided about how you plan to work with the ·1· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization. ·2· · · · I'll move on to note that your final environmental ·3· ·impact statement says that:· (as read) ·4· · · · Isolated instances where project shipping ·5· · · · interrupts an individual hunt is likely to ·6· · · · occur to some degree. ·7· ·Have you confirmed with communities, Inuit for the ·8· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization, how ·9· ·many hunts have been interrupted or completely put off 10· ·by interruptions from project shipping, and how many 11· ·isolated incidents there actually have been since 12· ·operations began?· Qujannamiik. 13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 14· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 15· · · · I just -- to clarify Ms. Hanson-Main's previous 16· ·question to be more direct in the answer, magnitude is 17· ·the level of change relative to the appropriate 18· ·baseline.· It's rated as low, moderate, or high and 19· ·that the ratings that we assign are linked to 20· ·measurable parameters where that's appropriate.· But it 21· ·should be noted that measurable parameters could still 22· ·be included in a conceptual sense.· So I just wanted to 23· ·clarify that response. 24· · · · In regards to the number of hunts that would have 25· ·been interrupted, that's directly addressed through the 26· ·wildlife compensation fund that's administered by the ·1· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· So that is -- that fund ·2· ·is available to provide compensation in cases where the ·3· ·project directly interferes with equipment or a ·4· ·successful catch.· So the number would be related to ·5· ·the number of wildlife compensation fund claims that ·6· ·have been made, which the Qikiqtani Inuit Association ·7· ·may wish to speak to in their presentation.· Thank you. ·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·9· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 10· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 11· ·you, Megan, for that clarification about the wildlife 12· ·compensation fund.· Just a clarification on that.· That 13· ·is available for harvesters when they are -- the 14· ·project directly interferes with a harvest and not 15· ·necessarily when an indirect impact such as general 16· ·avoidance, short-term, or localized avoidance may 17· ·impact on harvesters looking for animals in areas where 18· ·normally found.· Would that be an accurate statement? 19· ·Qujannamiik. 20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 21· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 22· · · · Again, I think that's probably a more appropriate 23· ·question for the administers [sic] of the fund, so the 24· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association. 25· · · · I also want to help further this conversation 26· ·right now.· We don't have the most up-to-date number of ·1· ·claims that have been made, but we do know that one ·2· ·claim was made in 2017; two claims had been made in ·3· ·2016.· So that's the information that we have available ·4· ·to us, but, again, that could be directed to the ·5· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association.· Thank you. ·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·7· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·8· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·9· ·you, Megan.· We appreciate that. 10· · · · We also note that you had said regarding the 11· ·impact on marine mammals hunted by effort level and the 12· ·fact that you said that was of low magnitude based 13· ·mostly on qualitative information.· You just confirmed 14· ·that magnitude is a level of change relative to an 15· ·appropriate baseline.· Can you confirm that you don't 16· ·actually have quantitative baseline for the harvest 17· ·level of effort and that you haven't measured those 18· ·parameters in years past; is that correct? 19· ·Qujannamiik. 20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 21· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 22· · · · Again, I would refer the intervenor to Slide 55, 23· ·the data that's reported by the Mittimatalik Hunters 24· ·and Trappers Organization, which shows that five of the 25· ·last seven years have seen the highest number of landed 26· ·catches while the project was operating in relation to ·1· ·years where the -- or before the operation was in ·2· ·effect, and I think -- so that could be considered a ·3· ·baseline.· Before the operation was -- was in effect, ·4· ·we're comparing in relation to those values. ·5· · · · And I think Lou Kamermans would like to expand. ·6· ·Thank you. ·7· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. ·8· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. ·9· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 10· · · · I just want to -- to make it clear that when we 11· ·looked at the Tasiuqtiit reports and when we looked at 12· ·the information gathered through our harvest-specific 13· ·engagements as well as the available information from 14· ·our 2015 and 2016 workshop report, all of that 15· ·information, some officially called Inuit 16· ·Qaujimajatuqangit collected through research licences 17· ·and others informally collected as community feedback. 18· · · · That information -- Tusaqtavut reports, my 19· ·apologies.· That information was always offered in the 20· ·context of change since -- prior to the project.· So 21· ·what's important as the measure in the assignment of 22· ·magnitude is change, and so what we relied on was the 23· ·reporting of change as perceived by those Hunters and 24· ·those land users.· So we do think those were 25· ·appropriate sources to support that effects 26· ·determination.· Thank you. ·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·2· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·3· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·4· ·you for that response. ·5· · · · A couple of things.· We've been through a number ·6· ·of questions, and Baffinland started by acknowledging ·7· ·that harvest numbers -- the level of harvest does not ·8· ·show effort level nor does it show the impact on ·9· ·harvest of marine mammals -- impact, sorry, on 10· ·harvesting of marine mammals. 11· · · · I'd also just confirm that the findings, the 12· ·conclusions I'm referring to are from your 2018 final 13· ·environmental impact statement, and I'd just like you 14· ·to confirm that those findings of low in magnitude and 15· ·non-significant apply -- I think you said that -- after 16· ·filing your 2019 food security and relying on the 17· ·Tusaqtavut studies also from 2019 so that nothing 18· ·changed -- (INTERPRETER BELL) (INUKTITUT SPOKEN - NO 19· ·TRANSLATION).· Your conclusions have not changed from 20· ·2018 based on what you heard in Tusaqtavut and the food 21· ·security assessment of 2019.· Qujannamiik. 22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 23· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 24· · · · I would first like to disagree with the first 25· ·statement that was made.· That, in fact, is not what 26· ·we're saying.· What we've been saying is that the data ·1· ·that is available to us shows or demonstrates that we ·2· ·have seen the greatest level of landed catch for ·3· ·narwhal since 1994.· That's what the graph on Slide 55 ·4· ·is showing. ·5· · · · Second, although the first documentation was ·6· ·submitted in 2018, so would have been representative of ·7· ·the information we had at that time, we've continued to ·8· ·update our work and provide additional assessments and ·9· ·work throughout this review process as well as 10· ·continuing to meet and request additional information 11· ·from important groups to help inform any additional 12· ·monitoring, mitigation, changes, and conclusions.· And 13· ·so although we did update our food security assessment, 14· ·our overall conclusions didn't change. 15· · · · We also looked at the Tusaqtavut studies that were 16· ·done by the Qikiqtani Inuit Association and evaluated 17· ·if that information would have changed our conclusions. 18· · · · So although all of the additional information is 19· ·very useful and helps to inform our understanding, we 20· ·haven't changed the conclusions or the outcomes from 21· ·what we provided in 2018.· Thank you. 22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 23· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 24· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. 25· ·Qujannamiik.· Thank you, Megan. 26· · · · I'm noticing that the conclusion reached is that ·1· ·the potential impact on quantity -- the number of ·2· ·marine mammals harvested by level of effort is low in ·3· ·magnitude and is valuated not to be significant.· Have ·4· ·you applied a relevant Inuit context to this finding of ·5· ·non-significance in respect of harvesting? ·6· ·Qujannamiik. ·7· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·8· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·9· · · · Regardless of the outcome on significance or not, 10· ·what we've continued to do throughout this process and 11· ·what we want to continue to do is understand what that 12· ·means at the community level and understand how we can 13· ·support changes. 14· · · · So we have added a support program right now.· We 15· ·also understand that additional studies will be 16· ·conducted.· Inuit committees will be developed.· All of 17· ·this information will be used to identify what else we 18· ·can do to support changes and hunting experiences -- 19· ·support changes in community lives. 20· · · · So I think relying on the finding of not 21· ·significant, it doesn't mean that we haven't tried to 22· ·identify what we, as Baffinland, can do to ensure that 23· ·Inuit community well-being will be maintained.· Thank 24· ·you. 25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 26· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·1· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·2· ·you, Megan. ·3· · · · I don't think that that answers the question. I ·4· ·appreciate the forward-looking plans and committees, ·5· ·things that are yet to be done, but we are looking at ·6· ·your findings and your conclusions in the final ·7· ·environmental impact statement, and we -- we -- again, ·8· ·we asked whether you've applied an Inuit context to ·9· ·these findings?· Is this definition of "not 10· ·significant", is it a general application?· Is it 11· ·statistically calculated?· Or is it based on 12· ·significance as felt by the hunters who have been 13· ·impacted and who may be impacted?· Would you base 14· ·significance on the number of events?· So if only one 15· ·hunter's boat is interrupted, that's determined not 16· ·significant?· What if it's 2 or 25?· What if hunting is 17· ·extended by hours, days, weeks, or hundreds of 18· ·kilometres in search of mammals going farther away to 19· ·travel?· And what if someone's life is put in danger 20· ·because they had to go so far to travel?· Does that 21· ·factor into your finding of not significant? 22· ·(INUKTITUT SPOKEN - NO TRANSLATION) for the interpreter 23· ·and Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 25· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 26· · · · The significance ratings are based on professional ·1· ·judgment of the authors of the report, which does ·2· ·include very valuable information that has been shared ·3· ·with us over the years by Inuit, including while this ·4· ·review process has been going on. ·5· · · · But what I believe is really being highlighted in ·6· ·your question is the importance of collaboration, the ·7· ·importance of talking, the importance of meeting.· The ·8· ·community -- the communities and the people who live ·9· ·there are the holders of all of the information you 10· ·just said, and if that's not shared with Baffinland, if 11· ·that's not discussed, if that's not brought forward, we 12· ·can't adapt, and we can't make changes to our 13· ·operations or learn how best to support them. 14· · · · So what we're coming back to is it's 15· ·forward-looking, but it's also an application of what 16· ·we've been doing all along, which is trying to meet and 17· ·trying to understand what's happening in the community, 18· ·and then adapt our operations or add support programs 19· ·or help the community thrive.· Thank you very much. 20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 21· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 22· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 23· ·you, Megan. 24· · · · And have you confirmed with Inuit, the community, 25· ·or the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization 26· ·about how indirect effects of the project may impact on ·1· ·narwhal behaviour, such as moving away from areas that ·2· ·are important to harvesting, but maybe that haven't ·3· ·been noted by your surveying and how that has affected ·4· ·Inuit harvesting?· Qujannamiik. ·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·6· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·7· · · · Yes.· We've tried.· We've inquired.· We've asked ·8· ·for this information, and we can do what we can do with ·9· ·the information that's provided to us.· Thank you. 10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 11· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 12· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta, and 13· ·thank you, Megan. 14· · · · Does Baffinland have data -- qualitative data on 15· ·the harvest of seal in Pond Inlet specifically? 16· ·Qujannamiik. 17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 18· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle. 19· · · · We do not, and it's my understanding that the 20· ·community does not either.· Thank you. 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 22· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 23· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 24· ·you, Megan. 25· · · · I note this isn't the community's project 26· ·proposal, but I'll continue with my questioning. ·1· · · · Do all of the references in your Section 9.7.2 of ·2· ·Technical Supporting Document 25 referring to marine ·3· ·mammals also apply to seals and the Inuit harvest of ·4· ·seal?· Can you confirm that?· Qujannamiik. ·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·6· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·7· · · · I'd like to correct a statement that I just made. ·8· ·It's just been brought to my attention, it was -- ·9· ·information on seal hunting was included in the 10· ·Tusaqtavut report, so my apologies for that. 11· · · · And then for the second question that was just 12· ·asked, I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond.· Thank you. 13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. 14· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. 15· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 16· · · · Yes.· Our conclusion is related to seal from 17· ·Technical Supporting Document 24 where it considered in 18· ·our evaluation of potential project effects on 19· ·harvesting, and that was carried through into the food 20· ·security assessment as well.· Thank you. 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 22· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 23· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· And 24· ·thank you, Lou, for that and, Megan, for the 25· ·clarification. 26· · · · Would Baffinland suggest that the number of ·1· ·narwhals harvested by Pond Inlet is a good indicator of ·2· ·the availability of seals or relate at all to the ·3· ·harvest of seal?· Qujannamiik. ·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·5· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·6· · · · No.· We are not saying that there's a relationship ·7· ·between the two, but we do also note that there is no ·8· ·tagging allocation for seals in the area.· Thank you. ·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 10· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 11· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 12· ·you, Megan. 13· · · · Yes.· We note that and also that your 14· ·environmental impact statement indicates that since 15· ·Pond Inlet's narwhal harvests were at the highest 16· ·levels since the early 2000s, the Phase 2 proposal is 17· ·unlikely to affect the harvesting of marine mammals, 18· ·recognizing that that includes seal. 19· · · · I'll just confirm, you've not undertaken any 20· ·specific quantitative, looking at numbers, assessment 21· ·on the impact of Phase 2 to the Inuit harvest of seal 22· ·or narwhal.· You haven't presented any data on effort 23· ·levels, success rates, or specific Inuit 24· ·Qaujimajatuqangit related to harvesting rates, but 25· ·you're still asking the Mittimatalik Hunters and 26· ·Trappers Organization and the Board to be satisfied ·1· ·with your suggestion that because marine mammals will ·2· ·not be impacted, because narwhal harvesting levels are ·3· ·high, that Inuit harvesting of narwhal and seal will ·4· ·not be impacted; is that correct?· Qujannamiik. ·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·6· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·7· · · · No.· That's not correct.· I'd also note that we do ·8· ·provide information on success levels, again reflected ·9· ·in Slide 55, the graph provided.· That's quantitative 10· ·data on success levels of narwhal capture. 11· · · · In terms of seals, it's related to their abundance 12· ·in the area.· If there were population level threats to 13· ·seal at this time, we would assume that their status 14· ·would be changed, and Fisheries and Oceans and the 15· ·Nunavut Wildlife Management Board would begin placing 16· ·limits on harvesting. 17· · · · So success, as one of the factors that we looked 18· ·at, is about availability, and we did include 19· ·population level changes to both narwhal and seals in 20· ·our impact assessment, and our findings were that there 21· ·would not be a population level effect on either. 22· ·Thank you. 23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 24· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 25· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 26· ·you, Megan. ·1· · · · You may have misheard me.· Specifically, I ·2· ·suggested that Baffinland has not presented data on ·3· ·effort levels and specific to success rates that Inuit ·4· ·Qaujimajatuqangit related to harvests, but I understand ·5· ·that you have provided numbers from Fisheries and ·6· ·Oceans on how many narwhal have been caught in relation ·7· ·to an ever increasing allowable harvest based on ·8· ·numbers that were not caught the previous year.· So ·9· ·we'll note that. 10· · · · In response to your comment about seals and about 11· ·population abundance, we note -- I'm just curious if 12· ·you had heard the Elder speak in Pond Inlet on Thursday 13· ·specifically noting that because of shipping, seals 14· ·have been gone.· Seals have moved away from the 15· ·shipping route -- from the areas normally very reliable 16· ·to harvest seal.· Did you hear that comment on 17· ·Thursday?· Qujannamiik. 18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 19· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 20· · · · Yes.· I did hear that comment. 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 22· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 23· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 24· ·you, Megan. 25· · · · We've also heard Inuit indicating a strong 26· ·reliance and even dependence on seal as a source of ·1· ·food, clothing, and traditional harvest essential to ·2· ·Mittimatalingmiut life.· I also note the NIRB's -- the ·3· ·Nunavut Impact Review Board environmental impact ·4· ·statement guidelines require that you develop a ·5· ·baseline of information that looks at habitat used by ·6· ·valued components for overwintering, habitats of ·7· ·species important to Inuit harvesting.· I've read that ·8· ·from 8.1.13.1. ·9· · · · We also note that the guidelines -- the next 10· ·subsection, 13.2, ask you to conduct an impact 11· ·assessment on the possible impacts, particularly from 12· ·icebreaking shipping and the potential interactions to 13· ·marine mammals indirectly from icebreaking shipping, 14· ·particularly marine mammals that congregate around the 15· ·proposed northern shipping route, and also that it's 16· ·important to consider indirect effects on marine 17· ·wildlife behaviour, distribution, abundance, migration, 18· ·species reproduction, and, most importantly, the 19· ·possibility or potential for marine wildlife habitat 20· ·loss, including seal dens as a result of marine 21· ·shipping, specifically icebreaking. 22· · · · Did your baseline information include habitat for 23· ·overwintering of seal and seal dens?· And also, did 24· ·your impact assessment specifically consider indirect 25· ·impacts on seals from icebreaking?· Qujannamiik. 26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·1· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·2· · · · I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond.· Thank you. ·3· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · · Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. ·4· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·5· · · · To first directly answer the question, our ·6· ·icebreaking effects assessment considered effects to ·7· ·seals when the project is meant to be operational.· So ·8· ·it considered the periods when we would be shipping ·9· ·under Phase 2, which includes the period between 10· ·July 1st and November 15th, subject to our commitment 11· ·not to break land-fast ice, so that period between the 12· ·presence of land-fast ice in Eclipse Sound and Milne 13· ·Inlet.· And we understand that period to not overlap 14· ·critical life-cycle stages for seal, including those 15· ·just mentioned by the intervenor. 16· · · · As for what we've heard in terms of community 17· ·input and the Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, we've heard a 18· ·spectrum, and we've been quite transparent about that, 19· ·and we recorded that in our food security assessment, 20· ·which included the most currently available 21· ·information.· Yes.· It was qualitative, but that 22· ·assessment also includes quantitative studies.· I'm 23· ·mainly talking about the Nunavut Wildlife Harvest Study 24· ·carried out between 1996 and 2001. 25· · · · I think it's really important to note the 26· ·initiative was -- was led at a territorial level, and ·1· ·that's the appropriate level for these types of studies ·2· ·considering the variety of wildlife to be considered ·3· ·and the scope such a study requires. ·4· · · · We've also been quite transparent about the gap ·5· ·that existed in the food security assessment about ·6· ·quantitative data when it comes to harvesting effort. ·7· ·We have done all that we can to add the qualitative ·8· ·perspective that was available, and that was factored ·9· ·in our conclusions.· Barring the running of a harvest 10· ·study like that again from 1996 to 2001, there's no 11· ·more information we can add to this assessment. 12· · · · We will continue to use the best available 13· ·information provided to us, and we will continue to 14· ·support the advancement of understanding in this area 15· ·that is acknowledged in our food security assessment. 16· ·It's present in the commitments we've offered on this 17· ·subject. 18· · · · If the monitoring programs we support that could 19· ·look at this type of information in the future suggest 20· ·that we are having impacts outside of what we 21· ·predicted, we believe we have the system there to 22· ·address that.· We're talking about Inuit-led monitoring 23· ·programs that can produce this type of information much 24· ·better than the company can.· And we're tying that 25· ·directly to our adaptive management program, and if 26· ·effects are determined to be occurring, our priority ·1· ·will always be avoidance first.· That is written into ·2· ·the draft adaptive management plan, and it will be ·3· ·there in the final. ·4· · · · We will implement actions to reduce our impacts if ·5· ·they're happening.· And if it comes to it, we will ·6· ·compensate.· That will be written into the plans. ·7· ·We've already offered that.· Thank you. ·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·9· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 10· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 11· ·you, Chairperson.· Thank you, Lou, for that response. 12· ·Qujannamiik.· I can't tell if I'm on with you, Madam 13· ·Chair, when I'm on mute, so Qujannamiik. 14· · · · I'm glad that, Lou, you raised that point about 15· ·monitoring that could be done, Inuit-led monitoring. 16· ·We note in your existing project certificate issued in 17· ·2014, Condition 119 requires that Baffinland monitor 18· ·ringed seal birth lair abundance and distribution for 19· ·at least two years prior to the start of icebreaking, 20· ·specifically to develop a baseline with continued 21· ·monitoring over the life of the project as necessary to 22· ·test the accuracy of the impact predictions and 23· ·determine if mitigation is needed. 24· · · · Recognizing that project certificate was issued 25· ·some time ago, Baffinland has not done that with the 26· ·current operations, has it?· I think, if I understand ·1· ·correctly, it's your opinion that this condition ·2· ·doesn't apply to the icebreaking shipping that you've ·3· ·been conducting since 2017.· Is that right?· Is that ·4· ·correct?· Qujannamiik. ·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·6· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·7· · · · May I ask that the -- just the question be ·8· ·repeated.· Thank you. ·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 10· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 11· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 12· ·you, Chairperson.· Sorry.· To just repeat the question. 13· ·Thank you. 14· · · · Condition 119 of your project certificate had a 15· ·requirement to develop a baseline specifically for seal 16· ·birth lair abundance and distribution at least two 17· ·years prior to the start of icebreaking.· It's our 18· ·understanding that Baffinland hasn't done this and that 19· ·it's your opinion this doesn't apply to the current 20· ·icebreaking shipping you've been conducting since 2017. 21· ·I was looking for your confirmation that that's your 22· ·opinion.· Qujannamiik. 23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 24· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 25· ·That is correct.· Our -- our position is that this term 26· ·and condition was written for the approved project, so ·1· ·Steensby where we were going to be doing year-round ·2· ·shipping.· So this does not apply to the early revenue ·3· ·phase or the production increase that we're in now. ·4· ·It's also important to note that seal denning occurs in ·5· ·April and May and does not currently overlap with our ·6· ·shipping period.· Thank you. ·7· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·8· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·9· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. 10· ·Qujannamiik.· And thank you, Megan. 11· · · · I would just note -- I think you're aware that 12· ·that condition objective is to prevent impacts to 13· ·ringed seals from icebreaking associated with project 14· ·shipping, but we acknowledge your opinion that it does 15· ·not apply to the icebreaking that you've been 16· ·conducting for the last three-and-a-half years. 17· · · · You just mentioned the denning time and other 18· ·important times for seals.· Are you suggesting that 19· ·it's only shipping during key seasons, sensitive 20· ·periods for seals?· Is it only shipping during those 21· ·sensitive periods for seals that could or would impact 22· ·their use and fidelity, or return, and continued use to 23· ·the northern shipping route?· Qujannamiik. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 25· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 26· · · · The -- just for clarification, the term and ·1· ·condition is related to seal dens, and I also just ·2· ·wanted to point out that in the most recent ·3· ·recommendation report, the Board has also agreed with ·4· ·that position.· Thank you. ·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·6· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·7· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·8· ·you, Madam Chair. ·9· · · · Thank you, Megan.· I think we missed the question 10· ·in that -- in that statement.· Do you -- is Baffinland 11· ·suggesting that it is only shipping during key seasons 12· ·for seal?· I think you mentioned denning and pupping. 13· ·Is it only the sensitive key seasons for seal that 14· ·could impact their use and fidelity to the northern 15· ·shipping corridor?· I'll simplify that.· Do you think 16· ·that shipping in shoulder seasons could impact seals' 17· ·use of the ice within the shipping corridor after 18· ·freeze-up and for the months that follow?· Qujannamiik. 19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 20· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 21· · · · Thank you for the clarification.· We did consider 22· ·this.· We assessed the impact of icebreaking operations 23· ·during the spring season or what we call the "shoulder 24· ·season", so earlier in July, on seal habitat, so the 25· ·haul -out areas, and the change in ice habitat would 26· ·represent .33 percent of the available sea ice habitat ·1· ·in the area. ·2· · · · And the conclusions of that assessment were the ·3· ·disturbance effects would be temporary and localized ·4· ·and would be at a time where seals would be available ·5· ·or could get into the water as well. ·6· · · · I think it's also important to note that we often ·7· ·talk about the transit restrictions in terms of ·8· ·reducing noise for narwhal, but equally those transit ·9· ·restrictions and what our vessels -- our vessel 10· ·operators do while moving through the area in that 11· ·early season is to avoid ice.· So we both have 12· ·restrictions that limit our movement in ice during that 13· ·time period, but then we also have vessel operators who 14· ·would purposefully avoid breaking ice during that time 15· ·period while continuing and maintaining the safety of 16· ·the vessel.· Thank you. 17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 18· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 19· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Thank you, Chairperson. 20· · · · Unfortunately, I think we missed the question 21· ·again, so it's a few in a row I have to repeat the 22· ·question specifically, and I appreciate, Megan, your 23· ·information provided about how the early shoulder 24· ·season -- the spring shoulder season and icebreaking 25· ·may impact those important times.· I've asked whether 26· ·you think only shipping during key seasons for seals ·1· ·would impact their use, and you said you considered ·2· ·that.· You considered the icebreaking in the spring ·3· ·season. ·4· · · · Specifically, did you consider how icebreaking in ·5· ·the latter part of the year, specifically November, may ·6· ·impact seals' ability or fidelity remaining in the area ·7· ·to then select territory and denning and breathing hole ·8· ·areas?· Would the fall season icebreaking impact seals' ·9· ·return and use of the corridor during the remaining 10· ·winter months?· Qujannamiik. 11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Amanda Hanson-Main, can you 12· ·pick another word other than "fidelity" for the 13· ·interpreter. 14· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·(INUKTITUT SPOKEN - NO 15· ·TRANSLATION).· Will they come back?· Will they stay in 16· ·the area that they normally do through the year?· Will 17· ·they come back and continue to use the area if the ice 18· ·is disturbed?· Will they stay in the area?· Sorry. 19· ·Thank you. 20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 21· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 22· · · · I'll clarify.· That .33 percent was for both the 23· ·early and late shoulder season, so the fall period as 24· ·well. 25· · · · And it's important to note that since we completed 26· ·our icebreaking assessment, we have since -- in ·1· ·response to the Hamlet of Pond Inlet, we will be ·2· ·instituting transit restrictions in the fall period as ·3· ·well, so that is a new mitigation measure that's been ·4· ·committed to since that time.· Thanks. ·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·6· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·7· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·8· ·you, Megan.· Thank you, Chairperson. ·9· · · · Just to clarify or confirm with you, Inuit 10· ·Qaujimajatuqangit doesn't support -- you didn't answer 11· ·the question, Would seals return to the area.· You gave 12· ·a percentage of available sea ice habitat.· I'm 13· ·assuming you haven't considered whether or how seals 14· ·may return or if shipping in that late fall season 15· ·would impact their return and selection of habitat. 16· ·I've asked a number of different ways, but I have not 17· ·received an answer. 18· · · · I'll just ask you:· Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit does 19· ·not support that suggestion that they would return. 20· ·Would you agree that Inuit have said nattiq require 21· ·quiet time to select territory for winter?· They 22· ·require that quiet time to develop holes -- breathing 23· ·holes and lairs, dens, and that this has been raised 24· ·specifically during previous proceedings through the 25· ·Impact Review Board's process and also in our video 26· ·compendium, the videos we filed with hunters and Elders ·1· ·providing evidence for this proceeding?· Do you ·2· ·acknowledge that that is what Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit ·3· ·has to say about the ability of seals -- a reliance of ·4· ·seals and a willingness of seals to return to the area ·5· ·when ice is disturbed in the late fall?· Qujannamiik. ·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·NIRB legal counsel. ·7· ·MS. MEADOWS:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·8· ·Teresa Meadows, legal counsel for the Nunavut Impact ·9· ·Review Board. 10· · · · So, Madam Chair, there were several assertions in 11· ·there that are part of the evidence that the 12· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization will be 13· ·presenting in their presentation, and so there were 14· ·several statements and the only question was, Do you 15· ·agree with this evidence, and that evidence is not yet 16· ·quite properly before the Board.· And so I would ask 17· ·that Ms. Hanson-Main -- that question be deferred until 18· ·such time as she has been affirmed.· Thank you, Madam 19· ·Chair. 20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 21· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 22· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 23· ·you for that clarification.· We have heard evidence at 24· ·these proceedings as well from Elders in Pond Inlet, 25· ·but I will move on from that question. 26· · · · Baffinland has, I think, agreed their ·1· ·environmental impact statement guidelines require them ·2· ·to conduct an impact assessment of the possible ·3· ·indirect effects on marine wildlife behaviour, ·4· ·specifically habitat loss including seal dens as a ·5· ·result of marine shipping activities, icebreaking.· Do ·6· ·you have any evidence or Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit that ·7· ·Phase 2 will impact ringed seals' ability to use the ·8· ·Eclipse Sound, Pond Inlet, and Milne Inlet Port area ·9· ·throughout the year?· Qujannamiik. 10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 11· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle. 12· · · · No.· But I do just want to clarify that I did 13· ·confirm that .33 percent would be considered lost 14· ·habitat as a result of our assessment for seals.· Thank 15· ·you. 16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 17· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 18· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. 19· · · · Baffinland has suggested that it does not believe 20· ·the October period to be a sensitive period in seal or 21· ·narwhal life cycles, and I get that from response to -- 22· ·to commitments raised in September, Madam Chair. 23· · · · What are the sensitive periods in a narwhal's life 24· ·cycle, and -- or what is a critical life function in 25· ·these sensitive periods?· If you need me to clarify 26· ·that or simplify that, I could.· Qujannamiik. ·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·2· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·3· · · · I'll ask Phil Rouget to respond.· Thank you. ·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Phil Rouget. ·5· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Phil ·6· ·Rouget, Golder Associates on behalf of Baffinland. ·7· · · · The question is to identify what the critical ·8· ·periods would be for narwhal overlapping with the ·9· ·project.· This would include the migratory periods in 10· ·and out of the regional study area as well as the 11· ·calving period, which would overlap with the shipping 12· ·season.· Thank you. 13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 14· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 15· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 16· ·you, and thank you to Phil. 17· · · · You noted migratory periods and calving periods. 18· ·I'm wondering if also nursing or any foraging are 19· ·important life cycle periods, and if -- the second part 20· ·to that question:· So nursing and foraging, and also 21· ·would a sensitive life period be one where disruptions 22· ·could have negative consequences for the animal or 23· ·animals?· Qujannamiik. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland? 25· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle. 26· · · · I'll ask Phil Rouget to respond.· Thank you. ·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Phil Rouget. ·2· ·MR. ROUGET:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Phil ·3· ·Rouget, Golder Associates. ·4· · · · Just to clarify, we would consider the migratory ·5· ·periods as well as the calving and nursing periods to ·6· ·be key important periods for narwhal.· Foraging is also ·7· ·considered an important activity for narwhal.· We take ·8· ·that into account in the impact assessment.· We also ·9· ·look at available science and look at where the animals 10· ·are known to forage primarily throughout the year as 11· ·opposed to opportunistic foraging.· Thank you. 12· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 13· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 14· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 15· ·you, Phil. 16· · · · Would Baffinland agree that both Inuit 17· ·Qaujimajatuqangit and its own marine mammal monitoring 18· ·programs have demonstrated that narwhals do calf and 19· ·they do nurse and they do forage in the waters of the 20· ·northern shipping route, specifically some of those 21· ·being in the Eclipse -- sorry, pardon me, in Milne 22· ·Inlet area?· Qujannamiik. 23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 24· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 25· · · · Yes.· We acknowledge that this continues to happen 26· ·while shipping operations are underway.· Thank you. ·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·2· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·3· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·4· ·you. ·5· · · · How has Baffinland specifically incorporated ·6· ·verified Inuit knowledge about these life functions and ·7· ·events being of high importance throughout the study ·8· ·area into your effects assessment, specifically ·9· ·considering your plans to ship during the migration 10· ·into and out of the regional study area, to ship during 11· ·calving, nursing, and foraging periods, acknowledging 12· ·that Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit says these are times when 13· ·animals should not be disturbed?· Qujannamiik. 14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 15· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 16· · · · Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit has directly informed our 17· ·mitigation measures that we're proposing under the 18· ·Phase 2.· So our acknowledgement of these sensitive 19· ·periods, our acknowledgement of how Inuit would like to 20· ·see narwhal in the area and their hunting practices has 21· ·led to the very strict restrictions we have on our 22· ·vessels including the transit restrictions to protect 23· ·the early stages of the year, our setback area where we 24· ·ask all vessels to remain 40 nautical miles outside of 25· ·the regional study area to allow narwhal to stage at 26· ·the floe edge and enter into the area without ·1· ·disturbance from vessels and has also led to our strict ·2· ·speed restrictions.· Thank you. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·4· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·5· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·6· ·you. ·7· · · · The marine presentation referenced some early ·8· ·warning indicators.· I think Phil was delivering the ·9· ·presentation, and he noted that Mary River is the only 10· ·shipping project in the country to have adopted and 11· ·implemented early warning indicators for the project. 12· · · · How many early warning indicators have been 13· ·adopted at this point?· Qujannamiik. 14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 15· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Lou 16· ·Kamermans will respond.· Thank you. 17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. 18· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. 19· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 20· · · · One has been selected at this point in time, but 21· ·this is the product of years of engagement with the 22· ·marine environment working group and the Mittimatalik 23· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization.· It's a strong 24· ·reason why those -- that working group exists was to 25· ·influence this type of frankly groundbreaking work in 26· ·the field of marine monitoring and science. ·1· · · · So one is infinitely more than zero.· We had no ·2· ·other examples in Canada to borrow from.· We have led ·3· ·the way on this.· And we're going to keep leading the ·4· ·way on this through improvements to the adaptive ·5· ·management plan and the development of additional early ·6· ·warning indicators and Inuit-specific early warning ·7· ·indicators in the form of low, moderate, and high ·8· ·thresholds.· Thank you. ·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 10· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 11· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 12· ·you, Lou. 13· · · · Can you confirm that that is different, one being 14· ·selected -- has been adopted, whether that has been 15· ·implemented, as Phil suggested, and whether it has been 16· ·agreed to by all marine environment working group 17· ·members?· Qujannamiik. 18· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Baffinland, Megan Lord-Hoyle. 19· · · · Lou Kamermans will respond.· Thank you. 20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. 21· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. 22· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 23· · · · Yes.· We can say this has been implemented because 24· ·we have years of monitoring data to support it.· It's 25· ·also important to note that adaptive management is 26· ·something you implement as it's needed.· So we can take ·1· ·that monitoring data that's existed and has been ·2· ·produced over the last five years, and we can apply ·3· ·early warning indicators and thresholds to that data. ·4· · · · So we do have an early warning indicator selected, ·5· ·and this was selected based on feedback from the ·6· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization as well ·7· ·as Fisheries and Oceans.· Most others' perspectives ·8· ·are there should be additional early warning ·9· ·indicators.· We don't disagree with that.· That's what 10· ·we've proposed to continue to do, but you need to start 11· ·with something.· Thank you. 12· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 13· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 14· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 15· ·you, Lou, for that response. 16· · · · Recognizing it was adopted -- or I'm not sure that 17· ·it was approved.· You didn't clarify whether all the 18· ·marine environment working group members had provided 19· ·comment and whether that had been confirmed.· My 20· ·understanding is that it was just this last year in the 21· ·fall. 22· · · · What was the Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit that was 23· ·involved in selecting that indicator, and how many 24· ·Mittimatalik Hunter and Trapper Organization members 25· ·have attended the marine environment working group 26· ·meetings when that was discussed?· Qujannamiik. ·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·2· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·3· · · · We had a direct meeting with the Mittimatalik ·4· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization on early warning ·5· ·indicators in Pond Inlet in November of 2018 as well as ·6· ·the ongoing participation of hunters and trappers ·7· ·organization members in the working group.· I don't ·8· ·have the exact specifics of how many people were at the ·9· ·exact meetings, but this is summarized in the memo on 10· ·early warning indicators, but we do have MHTO 11· ·participation in our -- at all of our working group 12· ·meetings.· Thank you. 13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 14· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 15· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 16· ·you, Megan. 17· · · · That still didn't answer whether it had been 18· ·approved and agreed to by all the working group 19· ·members.· If you'd like to respond to that in your 20· ·response to this question, you could.· It would be 21· ·helpful. 22· · · · On Friday we heard -- I think, Megan, you 23· ·indicated that the role of the Mittimatalik Hunter and 24· ·Trappers Organization's attendance at the early 25· ·warning -- pardon me, at the environmental working 26· ·group meetings is to provide information around land ·1· ·use and Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, specifically adding ·2· ·that to some scientific discussions.· Are the terms of ·3· ·reference for the terrestrial or marine -- we're on the ·4· ·marine section, so I'll focus on that.· Are the terms ·5· ·of reference for the marine environment working group ·6· ·specific about that role for the Mittimatalik Hunters ·7· ·and Trappers Organization?· Qujannamiik. ·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·9· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 10· · · · In regards to the approval, I'll note that the -- 11· ·this is not an approval-based process in the working 12· ·groups, but all members did agree that this was a good 13· ·early warning indicator to use. 14· · · · And in terms of the terms of reference, no, I do 15· ·not believe they do, although we welcome that 16· ·suggestion as the drafting of the terms of reference 17· ·continues, and it could be included in the final 18· ·version if that was the preference.· Thank you. 19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·It is now 3:00.· We're going 20· ·to take a 15-minute break and continue with questions 21· ·to Baffinland. 22· ·(ADJOURNMENT) 23· ·THE CHAIR:· · ·Welcome back, everyone. 24· · · · Before we continue with questions to the marine 25· ·environment, for the awareness of participants, we are 26· ·joined by Jimi Onalik, Deputy Minster of Economic ·1· ·Development and Transportation from the Government of ·2· ·Nunavut here in Pond Inlet. ·3· · · · Continuing with questions to Baffinland, ·4· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization, Amanda ·5· ·Hanson-Main. ·6· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·7· ·you. ·8· · · · In follow-up to my previous question about the ·9· ·terms of reference for the marine environment working 10· ·group specific about the rule of the Mittimatalik 11· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization, has Baffinland ever 12· ·provided in a letter or an email to the Mittimatalik 13· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization indicating that their 14· ·participation would be considered as a contribution of 15· ·specific Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit? 16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 17· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 18· · · · I'm -- I'm not sure if that has ever happened in 19· ·the past, not to my knowledge.· The Mittimatalik 20· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization membership is -- is 21· ·outlined in the project certificate, but we welcome any 22· ·suggestions from the organization on how they would 23· ·like to be -- continue to be engaged in the group. 24· · · · We appreciate that those who participate provide 25· ·an Inuit lens to some of the western scientific 26· ·discussions that are ongoing, and we hope that this can ·1· ·continue.· Thank you. ·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·3· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·4· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. ·5· · · · Can Baffinland clarify:· Is it your position that ·6· ·when -- a Mittimatalik Hunter and Trapper Organization ·7· ·member who attends these meetings, when they raise a ·8· ·question or offer a comment on the -- the highly ·9· ·technical memos and materials presented during these 10· ·meetings, is that Baffinland collecting Inuit 11· ·Qaujimajatuqangit?· Qujannamiik. 12· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 13· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 14· · · · I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. 16· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. 17· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 18· · · · We have previously outlined in several documents 19· ·and responses filed during this review that when you 20· ·consider -- or -- or Baffinland proposes there's a 21· ·wider spectrum of Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit as -- as the 22· ·company looks as it and applies our -- the IQ 23· ·management framework.· We recognize that there are 24· ·formal IQ collection processes.· Those are the ones 25· ·supported by research licences, and they're carried out 26· ·in a very specific and prescribed way.· But there's ·1· ·also an informal component where we're on -- we have an ·2· ·ongoing relationship with the community, and we're ·3· ·relying on their input to guide our day-to-day ·4· ·decisions. ·5· · · · So what's being discussed right now is, frankly, ·6· ·semantics.· I think any input from the community and ·7· ·the Mittimatalik hunters and organizations is valid. ·8· ·It's helpful.· It's improved our monitoring programs ·9· ·over time.· It's contributed to our mitigations. 10· · · · So do we believe what's provided to us during 11· ·working group meetings is -- is IQ?· I think it would 12· ·fit that -- that definition, but -- but at the base, 13· ·it's -- it's helpful information that's helping us 14· ·manage this project and understand what the 15· ·communities' priorities and concerns are with relation 16· ·to it.· Thank you. 17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 18· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 19· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· And 20· ·thank you, Lou. 21· · · · Not to get hung up on the semantics, I appreciate 22· ·it -- I think it was yesterday or Friday's presentation 23· ·or the day before Phil suggested that vessels were 24· ·refraining from entering Koluktoo Bay.· What year was 25· ·it that the ships -- were they -- pardon me.· Had there 26· ·been a plan for the ships to enter Koluktoo Bay by ·1· ·Baffinland during Phase 2 or -- or ongoing operations? ·2· ·Qujannamiik. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·4· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·5· · · · This is not part of our current project ·6· ·description, and to clarify, we ask specifically that ·7· ·the vessels do not enter into Koluktoo Bay and that ·8· ·they avoid the entrance to Koluktoo Bay.· Thank you. ·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 10· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 11· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· And 12· ·thank you, Megan, for that clarification.· I -- I 13· ·didn't think that was a part of the description.· I'm 14· ·glad you clarified. 15· · · · I think we heard the reference to asking vessels 16· ·to refrain from entering Koluktoo Bay as something of a 17· ·mitigation of a response to Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit. 18· ·I'm not sure if you would suggest that refraining from 19· ·doing something that you never planned to do anyway is 20· ·actually responding to Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit and 21· ·concerns raised by communities. 22· · · · I understand you're currently anchoring ships at 23· ·Ragged Island, and -- and you plan to continue to 24· ·anchor ships there as part of Phase 2.· Are you aware 25· ·that Inuit have asked for the protection of that island 26· ·because it is an important hunting area?· And we heard ·1· ·yesterday, if I'm not correct, you will not stop ·2· ·anchoring there because Inuit, based on Inuit ·3· ·Qaujimajatuqangit, have asked you to; is that correct? ·4· ·Qujannamiik. ·5· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·6· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·7· · · · I think what was just said was a bit misleading. ·8· ·Although it's not part of our current project ·9· ·description, part of the reason for that is because 10· ·we've been specifically asked to not consider it.· So 11· ·although it's -- it's part of the overall area that's 12· ·included in the local study area, Baffinland has not 13· ·considered use of this area for this specific person -- 14· ·purpose or reason, that we were asked not to, that it 15· ·was -- it was considered a sensitive area, and we were 16· ·asked not to go into it. 17· · · · As for the question of:· Do we acknowledge that 18· ·Ragged Island is an important hunting area?· Yes, we 19· ·do, and that is why we've had numerous meetings trying 20· ·to find resolution or trying to find a compromise to 21· ·how we could use that area.· It's also why we've put 22· ·restrictions that were not previously part of the 23· ·project operations into place, is because we are 24· ·acknowledging that.· Thank you. 25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 26· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·1· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·2· ·you, Megan, for that clarification. ·3· · · · We've heard a number of indications of ·4· ·Baffinland's intention to mitigate or monitor because ·5· ·of what you heard.· With regard to seal monitoring ·6· ·specifically, the hunters and trappers organization, of ·7· ·course, is pleased that Baffinland is committed to ·8· ·begin seal monitoring now.· But you have also said ·9· ·you -- you don't think there's an impact from shipping 10· ·on seal.· Why are you implementing new monitoring there 11· ·based on what you've heard from Inuit?· Qujannamiik. 12· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 13· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 14· · · · I think part of the response to this is that 15· ·monitoring helps us verify our predictions, so even if 16· ·we don't expect there to be impacts, we use monitoring 17· ·to help confirm that.· The other part of this response 18· ·is this is a good example of responding to what we've 19· ·heard, and -- and much more recently, as I mentioned, 20· ·we've been hearing more from the community of Pond 21· ·Inlet specifically about impacts to seals, and so we've 22· ·been asked to conduct monitoring. 23· · · · So there are other examples such as monitoring 24· ·around Ragged Island that our western science is not 25· ·indicating is needed, but we've extended monitoring 26· ·programs or, in this case, are adding monitoring ·1· ·programs because it's important to the community. ·2· ·Thank you. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·4· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·5· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·6· ·you, Megan, for that response. ·7· · · · We heard you say that you want to help inform ·8· ·Inuit on questions that matter most, and we also heard ·9· ·Phil say that he wants to help solve the mystery of the 10· ·narwhal, which is admirable, and I commend you.· We 11· ·know it's a big one. 12· · · · But earlier this week, Baffinland also said you 13· ·don't believe that there's a direct line between 14· ·shipping and narwhal body condition, and so you're not 15· ·going to take the Inuit request or concerns and 16· ·implement any monitoring of body condition.· Isn't that 17· ·also correct?· Qujannamiik. 18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 19· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 20· · · · To clarify the context, what we said is at this 21· ·time we won't be running a dedicated monitoring program 22· ·around that, but we're very supportive of collaborating 23· ·on monitoring.· We think that because there isn't 24· ·necessarily a direct line here, that more parties would 25· ·be interested in this topic, such as Fisheries and 26· ·Oceans Canada as well as the community itself, and we ·1· ·would be happy to participate in a collective ·2· ·monitoring program on this.· Thank you. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·4· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·5· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·6· ·you, Megan. ·7· · · · Can you confirm that there are currently no ·8· ·adaptive management plans or early warning indicators ·9· ·in place for the effects of project shipping on the 10· ·Inuit harvest of narwhals and seals?· Qujannamiik. 11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 12· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 13· · · · To be clear, there are indicators available such 14· ·as harvesting data that was shown in our presentation, 15· ·but it's also envisioned that Inuit will develop 16· ·additional indicators as well as the thresholds 17· ·associated with those indicators as part of the final 18· ·adaptive management plan.· Thank you. 19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 20· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 21· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· And 22· ·thank you, Megan. 23· · · · I hate to return to it, but does Baffinland agree 24· ·that -- or -- or has Baffinland confirmed with the 25· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization that 26· ·harvesting data numbers are an adequate indicator for ·1· ·project effects on the Inuit harvesting of narwhals and ·2· ·seals, especially noting there are no numbers on the ·3· ·harvest of seals?· Qujannamiik. ·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·5· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·6· · · · That wasn't an exhaustive list, but it's pointing ·7· ·to data that's available.· Whether it's seen as -- as ·8· ·appropriate or not, that's for ongoing discussions, as ·9· ·I mentioned, through the development of additional 10· ·indicators, but we can't ignore the fact that -- that 11· ·that data exists and is -- is an indicator.· Thank you. 12· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 13· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 14· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 15· ·you, Megan. 16· · · · Would you agree that adaptive management plans and 17· ·the early warning indicators for impacts to Inuit 18· ·harvesting should be developed and incorporated into 19· ·your own plans rather -- rather than those of a future 20· ·to be determined Inuit committee?· Qujannamiik. 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 22· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 23· · · · Yes.· And the adaptive management plan is 24· ·Baffinland's management plan as are the other marine 25· ·and terrestrial management and monitoring plans. 26· ·Indicators that exist now are built into those ·1· ·management plans that exist and can be added to in the ·2· ·future as well.· Thank you. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·4· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·5· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·6· ·you.· Thank you, Megan. ·7· · · · Does Baffinland understand that Mittimatalik ·8· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization needs to know exactly ·9· ·what monitoring, early warning indicators, and 10· ·mitigation measures you're proposing to ensure that our 11· ·harvest of narwhal and seals will not be impacted 12· ·before the approval of Phase 2 and not after? 13· ·Qujannamiik. 14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 15· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 16· · · · What's been available -- or what is available has 17· ·been provided to date, but I also think that this is a 18· ·more appropriate thing for the Mittimatalik Hunters and 19· ·Trappers Organization to address during their 20· ·presentation. 21· · · · Baffinland's position is that what we've done is 22· ·both acceptable under an environmental assessment 23· ·process and, further, much more defined and refined for 24· ·an environmental assessment process because we're an 25· ·operating project, which is not always the case when an 26· ·environmental assessment review is underway.· So we ·1· ·actually think we have the benefit of existing ·2· ·operational plans which could then have been updated ·3· ·for the Phase 2 proposal.· Thank you. ·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·5· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·6· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·7· ·you.· Thank you, Megan. ·8· · · · Given your comment that what you've done is ·9· ·acceptable and much more defined and refined for the 10· ·environmental assessment because you're operating, in 11· ·your opinion, is one indicator for narwhal developed 12· ·after six years of operations and extensive monitoring 13· ·an example of the acceptability and definition in 14· ·refinement?· Qujannamiik. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 16· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 17· · · · Yes.· To clarify, we don't have just one indicator 18· ·available.· What we have is one early warning indicator 19· ·that's being implemented right now, but as Lou 20· ·mentioned, that is more than any other operating 21· ·project.· We did not have other examples of where to go 22· ·on how to develop this, and it's the result of years of 23· ·hard work and a lot of parties participating through 24· ·the development and now agreement that this early 25· ·warning indicator is appropriate.· Thank you. 26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·1· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·2· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· And ·3· ·thank you, Megan. ·4· · · · On Slide 37, we see three pictures.· I'm not sure ·5· ·if you'd like to bring them up, Slide 37 from the ·6· ·marine presentation.· Can you confirm whether shoulder ·7· ·season shipping generally requires that you will use an ·8· ·icebreaker support for safety?· I think it's well ·9· ·established, so just confirmation that, yes, you do 10· ·consider an icebreaker support necessary for safety in 11· ·these ice conditions. 12· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 13· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 14· ·I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. 16· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. 17· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 18· · · · The requirement of ice-strengthened vessel support 19· ·like the Botnica we've had can be partly for liability 20· ·reasons; vessel contractors or charters require that. 21· ·But also -- I'm sorry.· I don't have the full name, but 22· ·according to NORDREG, there are technical 23· ·specifications for when certain vessels can enter the 24· ·area, and based on their -- their ice classification, 25· ·some require an escort.· So that -- the presence of the 26· ·Botnica has -- has allowed certain vessels to be in the ·1· ·area that otherwise wouldn't be -- be able to navigate ·2· ·through those types of ice conditions.· Thank you. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·4· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·5· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Thank you, Chairperson.· Thank ·6· ·you, Lou. ·7· · · · Your -- Baffinland's definition of "open water" is ·8· ·slightly different than the Polar Code in Transport ·9· ·Canada's regulations.· Baffinland looks at ice 10· ·conditions between one- and three-tenths ice, so that's 11· ·the far right-hand picture on Slide 37.· And Transport 12· ·Canada indicates "open water" is a large area of freely 13· ·navigable water in which sea ice is present in 14· ·concentrations less than one-tenth.· Would you agree 15· ·that your definition is different than Transport 16· ·Canada's and the Polar Code?· Qujannamiik. 17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 18· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 19· · · · Lou Kamermans will respond.· Thank you. 20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. 21· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. 22· · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. 23· · · · The three-tenths and under is a project-specific 24· ·definition.· It's based on our ability to avoid 25· ·interactions with ice, and based on our ice expert 26· ·analysis, we -- we do not expect to be engaging with ·1· ·ice meaningfully in that -- that three-tenths and ·2· ·under.· So this is also important for our transit ·3· ·restriction system, which is based on how much ice we ·4· ·expect to -- to encounter during a transit based on ·5· ·different ice conditions. ·6· · · · This definition has been provided to Transport ·7· ·Canada in response to their final written submissions. ·8· ·It was accepted by them as a project-specific term. ·9· ·The only request from parties has been that we are 10· ·consistent among our management plans in using this 11· ·definition, which we will be and we've committed to. 12· ·Thank you. 13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 14· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 15· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 16· ·you, and thank you, Lou. 17· · · · So I understand this is a project-specific 18· ·definition, but ships in one- to three-tenths ice will 19· ·still require icebreaker escort, and will they be 20· ·required to travel in a caravan, or is there any limit 21· ·on the number of ships moving through the shipping 22· ·corridor in those ice conditions less than three-tenths 23· ·conditions of ice?· Qujannamiik. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 25· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 26· ·Lou Kamermans will respond.· Thank you. ·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. ·2· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. ·3· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·4· · · · Vessel access will always be limited and managed ·5· ·according to the calculation of ice numerals that the ·6· ·vessels have to do as well as zone dates.· This is ·7· ·explained in our shoulder season shipping operations ·8· ·guide we submitted through the review process.· I think ·9· ·the important point to note is Baffinland's operations 10· ·will always be consistent with the applicable 11· ·regulations. 12· · · · As for escorts, escorts could occur at that time 13· ·as long as they were occurring with positive ice 14· ·numerals and the length of the convoys would be as long 15· ·as they can be safely executed.· What we've seen in the 16· ·past has been a maximum of five vessels in -- in 17· ·escort or in convoy, and we expect that to be -- be the 18· ·limit moving forward as well.· And so it's just an 19· ·important point to note that all of this was considered 20· ·in our underwater acoustics modelling and assessment. 21· ·Thank you. 22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 23· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 24· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 25· ·you, Lou. 26· · · · How many -- I'm -- I'm curious.· It may have been ·1· ·asked and not answered during the first days of the ·2· ·hearing.· How many ice -- how many transits of the ·3· ·icebreakers are we considering -- are we being asked to ·4· ·consider for Phase 2?· What is the upper maximum, and ·5· ·why have you not indicated a total number for those ·6· ·icebreaker ships?· Qujannamiik. ·7· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·8· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·9· ·This was asked and answered, but I'll ask Lou Kamermans 10· ·to provide an answer.· Thank you. 11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. 12· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. 13· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 14· · · · We haven't provided a number because that would 15· ·not be the appropriate way to portray the transits. 16· ·We've always indicated they would be variable based on 17· ·the length of the ice conditions in the area.· That was 18· ·studied.· That was presented in Technical Supporting 19· ·Document 16.· It's our ice study.· It shows the lengths 20· ·of the seasons where icebreakers could be required.· It 21· ·goes into quite a lot of detail into why it's required 22· ·and -- and when and what would be most ideal for this 23· ·project. 24· · · · As for -- you know, what does this mean for our 25· ·assessment?· We have considered icebreaker activity -- 26· ·ice -- the activity of icebreaking during the spring ·1· ·and fall ice breakup and formation periods.· This did ·2· ·consider vessels being escorted, and so the important ·3· ·point to note is that an icebreaker doesn't operate in ·4· ·a silo.· It's always connected to bringing an ore ·5· ·carrier or a freight or fuel vessel in.· So it's ·6· ·actually an improvement when you have a convoy when you ·7· ·combine the number of vessels into a single transit ·8· ·because there are limited additional impacts of having ·9· ·overlapping sound fields. 10· · · · So, overall, the -- we think an accurate depiction 11· ·of our shipping activities is captured when we say 12· ·there will be no more than 176 core carriers calling on 13· ·the project and a combined 24 freight and fuel vessels. 14· ·The assumption being -- and which is clearly stated -- 15· ·that icebreakers will -- will always convoy and escort 16· ·those vessels. 17· · · · So that's considered in the marine assessment, and 18· ·that's the point of providing a project description. 19· ·It's what drives the parameters of your assessment.· In 20· ·this case, it has -- it has been done accurately, 21· ·fully, and it's all within the icebreaking assessment. 22· ·Thank you. 23· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 24· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 25· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 26· ·you, Lou, for that response. ·1· · · · So how many transits did your icebreaker make last ·2· ·year through the regional study area?· Qujannamiik. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·4· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·5· · · · We're trying to pull up the numbers, but I may ·6· ·have to defer on the exact number.· But I think perhaps ·7· ·the concept that's important here is that this is not a ·8· ·cumulative -- there's not an addition of transits ·9· ·because the icebreaker is moving.· The icebreaker is 10· ·moving with another vessel.· It's taking that vessel 11· ·safely in and taking the vessel safely out. 12· · · · So what we are looking at, what we've included in 13· ·our assessment would consider the transits by the 14· ·icebreaker.· I think I'll have to defer on the exact 15· ·number, but I can provide that.· Thank you. 16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 17· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 18· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 19· ·you, Megan. 20· · · · I think you're getting the point I'm trying to -- 21· ·to raise or the question that I'd like to ask.· If the 22· ·icebreaker is -- is escorting a vessel or a number of 23· ·vessels, it seems to me the impact might be different. 24· ·If you're not required to maintain speed restrictions 25· ·or a number of transits in a 24-hour period but you 26· ·still require ice vessel -- ice escort -- icebreaker ·1· ·support, that icebreaker could be convoying five ·2· ·vessels -- four or five vessels, or it could be making ·3· ·multiple trips with one vessel.· Would the impact of ·4· ·that be different or in some way be cumulative, that ·5· ·number of ice vessels increasing would have an impact ·6· ·on the receiving environment; is that correct? ·7· ·Qujannamiik. ·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·9· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 10· · · · That is -- that is correct.· The icebreaker could 11· ·be taking one vessel or it could be taking five 12· ·vessels.· So in instances where it's taking more than 13· ·one vessel, it's actually decreasing the total number 14· ·of transits.· This was considered in our noise 15· ·assessment, and the noise, by adding one or more 16· ·vessels, is not cumulative in the same way.· So the 17· ·impact to the receiving environment is not 18· ·substantially increased as you add additional vessels 19· ·because the icebreaker is the louder of those vessels. 20· · · · And I'll ask Melanie Austin to provide some more 21· ·context, if anything's been missed there.· Thank you. 22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Melanie Austin. 23· ·MS. AUSTIN:· · · · · · · Melanie Austin from JASCO for 24· ·Baffinland. 25· · · · I'm just confirming what Megan said.· In the 26· ·icebreaking assessment, we did consider the sound ·1· ·footprint for an icebreaker in convoy with multiple ·2· ·vessels.· In the model scenario, there were two ·3· ·cape-size ore carriers with the icebreaker, but adding ·4· ·additional ore carriers to that convoy does not ·5· ·increase the size of that combined footprint, again, ·6· ·due to the loudest contribution coming from the ·7· ·icebreaker. ·8· · · · And just to confirm, those modelling assessments ·9· ·are soon to be conservative relative to the data that 10· ·we've been measuring.· Thank you. 11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 12· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 13· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· And 14· ·thank you for that response. 15· · · · If I understood correctly, the modelling was done 16· ·with one icebreaker plus two ore carriers, and 17· ·Baffinland's suggestion is the noise, the impact on the 18· ·receiving environment, does not change if you increase 19· ·that convoy to one icebreaker plus five ore carriers; 20· ·is that correct?· Qujannamiik. 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 22· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 23· ·I'll ask Melanie Austin to respond.· Thank you. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Melanie Austin. 25· ·MS. AUSTIN:· · · · · · · Melanie Austin from JASCO for 26· ·Baffinland. ·1· · · · The worst-case scenario actually that was modelled ·2· ·considered two icebreakers with two cape-sized ore ·3· ·carriers in convoy.· Thank you. ·4· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·5· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·6· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·7· ·you, Melanie.· That blew my head open, but I'm not ·8· ·going to go into the worst-case scenario, that there ·9· ·are now two icebreakers and four ore carriers.· I'll 10· ·let others get into that topic. 11· · · · Has -- has -- to Baffinland, has -- the 12· ·icebreaking and shoulder seasons that you've been 13· ·undertaking annually since the fall 2017 shipping 14· ·season, has that been formally considered by the 15· ·Nunavut Impact Review Board's environmental assessment 16· ·process?· Qujannamiik. 17· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 18· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 19· · · · Icebreaking was included in the production 20· ·increase proposal.· Thank you. 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 22· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 23· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 24· ·you, Megan, for that. 25· · · · Just to confirm that you have seen the Nunavut 26· ·Impact Review Board's December 23rd, 2020, Board ·1· ·recommendations to your annual report where it states ·2· ·that:· (as read) ·3· · · · Through the early revenue phase production ·4· · · · increase and production increase extension ·5· · · · request, no formal assessment of the ·6· · · · potential effects of icebreaking or ·7· · · · management activities has occurred. ·8· ·Can you confirm that that is your understanding as ·9· ·well?· Qujannamiik. 10· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 11· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 12· · · · Yes.· We -- we understand, Madam Chair, the 13· ·recommendations that the Board provides to us annually 14· ·and which we have and will continue to comply with. 15· ·But I'd like to emphasize for the purpose of this 16· ·process, an icebreaking assessment has been concluded 17· ·for the Phase 2 proposal.· Thank you. 18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 19· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 20· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· That 21· ·wasn't the question for Ms. Lord-Hoyle, but thank you 22· ·for confirming you are before the Board now with 23· ·icebreaking. 24· · · · Does Baffinland agree that limiting unnecessary 25· ·ship traffic should be a priority for Mary River to 26· ·limit the effects associated with acoustic and other ·1· ·disturbances to the marine environment?· Qujannamiik. ·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. ·3· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. ·4· · · · Yes.· That is, of course, our objective, to limit ·5· ·impacts on the environment.· Thank you. ·6· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·7· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·8· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. ·9· · · · I'm going to repeat the question.· It wasn't -- 10· ·that wasn't the question, whether we should limit the 11· ·disturbances.· It was:· Does Baffinland agree that 12· ·limiting unnecessary ship traffic should be a priority 13· ·for the project to limit the effects associated with 14· ·shipping?· Qujannamiik. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 16· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 17· · · · That was the intention of my last comment, and I 18· ·just want to also put forward that no unessential 19· ·shipping has been proposed as part of the Phase 2 20· ·proposal.· Further, we have since been working in 21· ·response to the Hamlet of Pond Inlet who has suggested 22· ·a change in approach from what we originally proposed 23· ·in terms of our increased shipping, and we have 24· ·proposed back to them that we can, in fact, do this. 25· ·And the reason for that is to help inform the 26· ·communities' views on increased shipping and to help ·1· ·with management of the project with increased shipping ·2· ·taking into consideration Inuit views.· Thank you. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·4· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·5· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·6· ·you, Megan. ·7· · · · Would Baffinland agree to maintaining speed ·8· ·restrictions and implementing further transit ·9· ·restrictions and caravan requirements for all shipping 10· ·that would occur in water from one- to three-tenths 11· ·ice numeral when an icebreaker is required? 12· ·Qujannamiik. 13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 14· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 15· · · · I'm not sure I caught the first part, but I want 16· ·to confirm that we are maintaining the 9-knot speed 17· ·limit, which is the most restrictive speed limit across 18· ·Canada.· In terms of the second question, Baffinland 19· ·has already proposed, again, back to the Hamlet of Pond 20· ·Inlet that we would extend the -- the current ship -- 21· ·or transit restrictions that are in place as well as 22· ·implement new transit restrictions in the fall season. 23· ·Additional changes to that program would certainly be 24· ·under consideration as part of adaptive management 25· ·planning.· Thank you. 26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·1· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. ·2· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank ·3· ·you, Megan.· I know that wasn't a response to our ·4· ·request, but I'll move on. ·5· · · · Your 2019 shoulder season icebreaking assessment ·6· ·indicated that prediction confidence for adverse ·7· ·effects on narwhal related to acoustic disturbances low ·8· ·due to the level of information available regarding ·9· ·short- and long-term behavioural effects of underwater 10· ·noise on narwhals as a result of increased exposure to 11· ·icebreaking noise.· Based on this 2019 icebreaking 12· ·assessment, have you adjusted your predictions or your 13· ·confidence with regard to impacts on harvesting? 14· ·Qujannamiik. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 16· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 17· · · · Let me be more clear with my answer to the 18· ·previous question.· No.· We will not consider 19· ·additional transit restrictions for under three-tenths 20· ·ice at this time.· We have already extended the transit 21· ·restrictions past the July 31st date that we currently 22· ·have implemented.· But we would, of course, consider 23· ·additional transit restrictions as part of adaptive 24· ·management. 25· · · · In response to the question that was just asked, 26· ·I'll ask Lou Kamermans to respond.· Thank you. ·1· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. ·2· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. ·3· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·4· · · · Based on the outcomes of the icebreaking ·5· ·assessment, there was not a need to adjust our ·6· ·prediction outcomes with respect to harvesting.· Thank ·7· ·you. ·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and ·9· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 10· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· Thank 11· ·you, and thank you, Lou and Megan. 12· · · · Regarding the sampling for aquatic invasive 13· ·species, did any biological sampling occur in 2020? 14· ·Qujannamiik. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 16· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle, Baffinland. 17· · · · I'll just note, Madam Chair, this has been a topic 18· ·of ongoing discussion at the working group, and in 19· ·2020, no, because of restrictions that we had in place 20· ·due to COVID.· Thank you. 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 22· ·Trappers Organization, Amanda Hanson-Main. 23· ·MS. HANSON-MAIN:· · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta.· And 24· ·thank you, Megan. 25· · · · Yes.· This is an ongoing topic.· We heard a lot of 26· ·discussion last week with Bruce as well with the ·1· ·Qikiqtani Inuit Association and Marina.· Marina noted ·2· ·that the exchange and treatment of ballast water are ·3· ·above regulatory requirements for mitigating against ·4· ·the introduction against nonindigenous species.· I'm ·5· ·going to ask two questions here.· When did Baffinland ·6· ·begin implementing treatment and exchange, and do you ·7· ·sample tanks on board for biological samples as well? ·8· ·Qujannamiik. ·9· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland. 10· ·MS. LORD-HOYLE:· · · · · Megan Lord-Hoyle.· Lou 11· ·Kamermans to respond.· Thank you. 12· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Lou Kamermans. 13· ·MR. KAMERMANS:· · · · · ·6Lou Kamermans, Baffinland. 14· ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 15· · · · This year we implemented the exchange plus 16· ·treatment requirement for any vessels that had 17· ·treatment capacity.· By the time Phase 2 could become 18· ·operational and see increased shipping is likely 2024. 19· ·This would be the same year where all vessels are 20· ·expected to have treatment systems, and this is under 21· ·the International Maritime Organization's D-2 standard. 22· ·Requiring this is -- is -- is over and above 23· ·regulations as well as our company-administered 24· ·compliance program. 25· · · · Further to that, what we've suggested -- or what 26· ·was recommended to us and agreed to was a collaborative ·1· ·program to be run between Baffinland, Fisheries and ·2· ·Oceans, as well as Transport Canada to develop a ·3· ·risk-based approach towards ballast water modelling -- ·4· ·or monitoring. ·5· · · · We've made further commitments with respect to ·6· ·hull fouling.· Essentially, this work, you know, ·7· ·will -- will it advance the country's understanding of ·8· ·how effective ballast water treatment systems are? ·9· ·And -- and we'll likely develop an approach that will 10· ·have a much broader application than just the Mary 11· ·River Project.· So -- so we are very much leading the 12· ·way with our proposals for Phase 2 in -- in this 13· ·collaborative partnership. 14· · · · And I just want to say I believe all -- all of the 15· ·parties involved in this know that this is a concern 16· ·for communities and -- and want communities to be 17· ·involved in -- in the implementation of this program as 18· ·we develop it.· So as that -- that risk-based approach 19· ·is developed, there will certainly be a community 20· ·component to it as well.· Thank you. 21· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·It has come to the Board's 22· ·attention that two intervenors wish to put objections 23· ·and requests for direction that differ from the motions 24· ·already before the Board. 25· · · · The first one from the Hamlet of Sanirajak, Louis 26· ·Primeau. ·1· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Sanirajak (Motion) (Hamlet of ·2· ·Sanirajak) ·3· ·MR. PRIMEAU:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·4· · · · As was pointed out in the Hamlet of Sanirajak's ·5· ·comments on the motion from the Mittimatalik Hunters ·6· ·and Trappers Association, it's appearing that having ·7· ·numerous evening sessions creates a hardship for ·8· ·Elders, and the objection is based on that. ·9· · · · The -- I don't believe it would've been the 10· ·Board's intention to try to disrespect Elders, but I 11· ·believe that having such -- such long days for them 12· ·actually does disrespect them, and we'd like the Board 13· ·to consider that in any future agenda setting.· Thank 14· ·you very much. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·The second one from the 16· ·Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization, 17· ·Lori Idlout. 18· ·Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization 19· ·(Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and 20· ·Trappers Organization) 21· ·MS. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · Thank you.· Lori Idlout, 22· ·Technical advisor for Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and 23· ·Trappers Organization. 24· · · · I'm seeking procedural direction on the status of 25· ·Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit and the rules of procedure. I 26· ·understand that Inuit traditional knowledge is ·1· ·mentioned in Rule 43.1 as stating:· (as read) ·2· · · · The Board shall give due regard to Inuit ·3· · · · traditional knowledge in all of its ·4· · · · proceedings. ·5· ·I'm also noting that there was clarification sought by ·6· ·the Hamlet of Sanirajak in their correspondence to you ·7· ·on September 18, 2020, and also noting NIRB's response ·8· ·on October 9, 2020.· Unfortunately, their response does ·9· ·not clarify whether Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit is 10· ·considered technical in nature, and that is the 11· ·procedural direction that we are seeking.· Is Inuit 12· ·Qaujimajatuqangit also considered technical in nature? 13· ·Qujannamiik. 14· · · · We may also have an -- I don't know if this is an 15· ·objection, but I have a concern about the use of the 16· ·pandemic, and I don't know if I should wait for your 17· ·response before I proceed to an objection. 18· ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. 19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·If you can provide your motion 20· ·or objection for the Board to consider. 21· ·Submissions by Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 22· ·Organization (Motion) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and 23· ·Trappers Organization) 24· ·MS. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. 25· · · · Lori Idlout, technical advisor for Ikajutit Arctic 26· ·Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization. ·1· · · · My concern arose on the first day, January 25, ·2· ·when we were informed that due to COVID-19, that the ·3· ·Board had decided to use a three-member Panel as ·4· ·opposed to the full Board.· I am concerned that NIRB is ·5· ·using the pandemic to work for and against its own ·6· ·decision-making process.· In the one instance, the ·7· ·pandemic is used to substantiate proceeding with the ·8· ·hearings in its current format and also used in ·9· ·qualifying reducing the hearing from the full Board to 10· ·a three-member Panel.· I think -- I hope that makes 11· ·sense.· Qujannamiik. 12· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·There have been two motions 13· ·and a procedural direction presented to the Board, and 14· ·now I turn to replies to the motions and procedural 15· ·direction, responses from registered intervenors and 16· ·Baffinland or identifying any additional motions or 17· ·objections, directions not already before the Board. 18· ·Specifically, the Board is asking whether your 19· ·organization supports the motion, does not support the 20· ·motion, or takes no position with respect to the motion 21· ·and why.· For parties who are represented by legal 22· ·counsel, I will be asking your legal counsel to reply. 23· · · · Qikiqtani Inuit Association, Lorraine Land. 24· ·Submissions by Qikiqtani Inuit Association (Motion) 25· ·(Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) 26· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·1· ·MS. LAND:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. ·2· ·Lorraine Land for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association. ·3· · · · The Qikiqtani Inuit Association supports the ·4· ·motion by Sanirajak regarding the ability of Elders to ·5· ·participate and the need for the Board to accommodate ·6· ·that as appropriate -- as you find appropriate. ·7· · · · With response to the first part of the motion or ·8· ·objection raised by Ms. Idlout for Ikajutit, the ·9· ·Qikiqtani Inuit supports consistent Inuit 10· ·Qaujimajatuqangit integration into this procedure and 11· ·generally supports the motion and has no other 12· ·comments.· Thank you. 13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Does the Qikiqtani Inuit 14· ·Association have a position for the motion provided by 15· ·Ikajutit Hunters and Trappers Organization regarding 16· ·the Panel? 17· ·MS. LAND:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. 18· ·Lorraine Land for the Qikiqtani Inuit Association. 19· · · · We have no position on that.· Thank you. 20· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Tunngavik 21· ·Incorporated, Neida Gonzalez or Arthur Yuan. 22· ·Submissions by Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated (Motion) 23· ·(Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) 24· ·(Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 25· ·MS. GONZALEZ:· · · · · · Sorry, Madam Chair.· I just 26· ·couldn't get the -- the feed.· This is Neida Gonzalez ·1· ·for Nunavut Tunngavik. ·2· · · · As far as the motion from Sanirajak on -- sorry, ·3· ·regarding -- let me just get my notes here.· We'll ·4· ·start with the Ikajutit.· Nunavut Tunngavik does ·5· ·support the incorporation of Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit ·6· ·and does not have a position of the -- the Panel -- the ·7· ·number of Panel Board Members at this time. ·8· · · · As far as the Sanirajak HTO motion, we -- we do ·9· ·support supporting the Elders and defer to the -- to 10· ·the Board on how to do that taking into account that 11· ·the evening sessions are difficult and that -- and also 12· ·taking into account the difficulties that the Board has 13· ·with the -- the -- the lengthy agenda.· I'll leave it 14· ·at that for now.· Thank you very much. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Pond Inlet, Frank 16· ·Tester. 17· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Pond Inlet (Motion) (Hamlet of 18· ·Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit 19· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 20· ·MR. TESTER:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. 21· · · · The Hamlet of Pond Inlet supports the motion put 22· ·forward by Sanirajak and also supports the motion put 23· ·forward by Ms. Idlout and offers no position with 24· ·regard to the third motion. 25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Mittimatalik Hunters and 26· ·Trappers Organization, Eamon Murphy. ·1· ·Submissions by Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers ·2· ·Organization (Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) ·3· ·(Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and ·4· ·Trappers Organization) ·5· ·MR. MURPHY:· · · · · · · Qujannamiik, Madam Chair.· The ·6· ·Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization, Eamon ·7· ·Murphy, legal counsel. ·8· · · · The Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization ·9· ·supports the motion from the Hamlet of Sanirajak.· We 10· ·agree this -- the evening sessions create hardship, 11· ·particularly for the Elders, and I would add that it's 12· ·made even more difficult when there isn't an evening 13· ·session scheduled, and then one is scheduled an hour or 14· ·two before the evening session begins.· So that's a 15· ·particular hardship. 16· · · · We also support the motion that Ms. Idlout 17· ·provided regarding the importance of Inuit 18· ·Qaujimajatuqangit, and it should be taken as seriously, 19· ·if not more so, during the technical sessions. 20· · · · And, finally, we take no position on the motion 21· ·regarding Panel Members.· Qujannamiik, Madam Chair. 22· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Community of Igloolik, 23· ·Igloolik Working Group, Igloolik Hunters and Trappers 24· ·Organization, Peter Ivalu. 25· ·Submissions by Community of Igloolik, Igloolik Working 26· ·Group, Igloolik Hunters and Trappers Organization ·1· ·(Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural ·2· ·Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers ·3· ·Organization) ·4· ·MR. IVALU:· · · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. ·5· · · · Although we respect and appreciate the Elders ·6· ·having to sit all day and it's tiring, we do not ·7· ·support the motion brought by Sanirajak.· We need to ·8· ·complete the sessions.· If we skip the evening ·9· ·sessions, it will be next to impossible to finish these 10· ·proceedings.· We support the motion brought by 11· ·Ms. Idlout regarding IQ being technical in nature, and 12· ·we also support the motion brought by Ms. Idlout 13· ·regarding the three-member Panel.· Thank you, Madam 14· ·Chair. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers 16· ·Organization. 17· ·Submissions by Sanirajak Hunters and Trappers 18· ·Organization (Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) 19· ·(Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and 20· ·Trappers Organization) 21· ·MS. EEGEESIAK:· · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chair. 22· ·Okalik Eegeesiak, advisor for Sanirajak Hunters and 23· ·Trappers Organization. 24· · · · I support Sanirajak hamlet's motion to better 25· ·accommodate how -- to better accommodate Elders and how 26· ·they participate in these sessions and, yes, I agree ·1· ·that they should be completed as much as possible, I ·2· ·guess, or completed -- ·3· · · · And the motion made by the Ikajutit Hunters and ·4· ·Trappers Organization, that IQ, Inuit ·5· ·Qaujimajatuqangit, is technical in nature as well as ·6· ·agree with Qikiqtani Inuit Association legal counsel ·7· ·that the Nunavut Impact Review Board could be more ·8· ·consistent and accommodate Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit. ·9· ·The whole process, I guess. 10· · · · And I am also concerned that a three-member Panel 11· ·will make a recommendation to the various ministers as 12· ·opposed to the full board, if I understood correctly, 13· ·when we started last week.· Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. 14· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Sanirajak, Louis 15· ·Primeau.· You can respond to the other motions and 16· ·procedural direction. 17· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Sanirajak (Motion) (Procedural 18· ·Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 19· ·Organization) 20· ·MR. PRIMEAU:· · · · · · ·Thank you, Madam Chairperson. 21· ·Louis Primeau, Hamlet of Sanirajak. 22· · · · The Hamlet of Sanirajak is in support of the 23· ·motion regarding the Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, and it 24· ·takes no position on the Board Panel size motion. 25· ·Thank you. 26· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Arctic Bay, Lori ·1· ·Idlout. ·2· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Arctic Bay (Motion) (Hamlet of ·3· ·Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit ·4· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·5· ·MS. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · Lori Idlout, Hamlet of Arctic ·6· ·Bay. ·7· · · · I have spoken with Olayuk Naqitarvik in regard to ·8· ·the motions.· He himself, as an Elder, does not mind ·9· ·sitting through meetings in the evenings.· He considers 10· ·these proceedings to be very important. 11· · · · In regard to Ikajutit's motion about Inuit 12· ·Qaujimajatuqangit needing to be also considered as 13· ·technical in nature, he was supportive of that motion 14· ·as well, and he had no -- he was supportive of whatever 15· ·might be agreed to by most of the group in regard to 16· ·the three-member Panel. 17· ·Submissions by Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers 18· ·Organization (Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) 19· ·MS. IDLOUT:· · · · · · · I also spoke with Moses 20· ·Koonoo.· I guess I'll just move over to Lori Idlout, 21· ·technical advisor, for Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and 22· ·Trappers Organization. 23· · · · He also considers these proceedings very important 24· ·and is willing to -- as an Elder himself is okay to 25· ·continue in the meetings -- in the evening sessions 26· ·because he agrees that they are -- these meetings are ·1· ·very important, and I think that was it.· Yeah.· Yes. ·2· ·That's it from HTO, Arctic Bay.· Qujannamiik. ·3· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Hamlet of Clyde River, Jerry ·4· ·Natanine. ·5· ·Submissions by Hamlet of Clyde River and the Nangmautaq ·6· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization (Motion) (Hamlet of ·7· ·Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit ·8· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·9· ·MR. NATANINE:· · · · · · (INUKTITUT SPOKEN - NO 10· ·TRANSLATION) Warren Bernauer. 11· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Warren Bernauer. 12· ·MR. BERNAUER:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. 13· · · · The Hamlet of Clyde River and the Nangmautaq 14· ·Hunters and Trappers Organization support the intent of 15· ·the motion from the Hamlet of Sanirajak.· It is very 16· ·important that we consider the well-being of Elders 17· ·when we schedule these meetings. 18· · · · The hamlet and hunters and trappers support 19· ·Ms. Idlout's motion regarding the importance of Inuit 20· ·knowledge. 21· · · · The hamlet and hunters and trappers take no 22· ·position on the motion regarding Panel Members.· Thank 23· ·you, Madam Chair. 24· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Amaruq Hunters and Trappers 25· ·Organization, Meeka Mike. 26· ·Submissions by Amaruq Hunters and Trappers Organization ·1· ·(Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural ·2· ·Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers ·3· ·Organization) ·4· ·MR. KAKEE:· · · · · · · ·Thank you.· Amaruq Hunters and ·5· ·Trappers. ·6· · · · We were asked to come here for the meeting, and I ·7· ·agreed to meet, and as a representative of Amaruq HTO ·8· ·and with respect to those affected, I had no idea what ·9· ·we'd be specifically meeting about perhaps because 10· ·there are much disagreements or misunderstanding, and 11· ·although Elders are taken as important, but there 12· ·seemed to be a lot of misunderstanding of the Elders. 13· ·And it -- we felt that there may be a reason, and with 14· ·respect to having to meet in the evenings, it would be 15· ·appropriate. 16· · · · The three that were agreed to be involved, we 17· ·didn't know the panels.· We -- I had not known that the 18· ·three panels was -- was an issue here, but I'll hand 19· ·the floor to Meeka Mike. 20· ·MS. MIKE:· · · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Meeka 21· ·Mike, representative of Amaruq Hunters and Trappers. 22· · · · With respect to the Elders, Jeetaloo seems to be 23· ·in support and, in fact, does not mind having Elders 24· ·meet in the evenings. 25· · · · And going back to Lori's point in regards to the 26· ·three panels, we had not realized that there were only ·1· ·three panels involved.· Perhaps their Board Members ·2· ·should also be informed, and if they're -- if they will ·3· ·be involved in decision-making, I think that should be ·4· ·clarified. ·5· · · · We have -- we give support here, but at the same ·6· ·time, we really want this hearing moving forward so we ·7· ·have -- we take no position.· Thank you. ·8· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Government of Nunavut, Emily ·9· ·Stockley. 10· ·Submissions by Government of Nunavut (Motion) (Hamlet 11· ·of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit 12· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 13· ·MS. STOCKLEY:· · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Emily 14· ·Stockley, Government of Nunavut. 15· · · · As to the first, I guess, motion from the Hamlet 16· ·of Sanirajak, while we also appreciate the sentiment, 17· ·we think that there is a balance to be struck here. 18· ·There are also people who attend work during the day 19· ·who would also like an opportunity to be able to 20· ·participate in the final hearings -- the public 21· ·hearings.· And to that end, we suggest that it is 22· ·appropriate to continue with hearings, including 23· ·evening sessions where necessary.· I would also note 24· ·that we have been doing this -- the NIRB, rather, has 25· ·used evening sessions for years in these matters, and 26· ·it has been useful time. ·1· · · · As to Ms. Idlout's request for direction, we, of ·2· ·course, have no comment on directions.· That should ·3· ·come from the Board. ·4· · · · As it relates to Ms. Idlout's motion, we object to ·5· ·that motion for two reasons.· The first is that the ·6· ·number of Board Members is authorized not only by the ·7· ·Nunavut Land Claim Agreement but also by NUPPAA. I ·8· ·would direct parties and the Board to Section 12.2.14 ·9· ·of the land claim agreement which provides that panels 10· ·may be used consisting of two or more NIRB members, and 11· ·they may -- legislation may authorize the Board to 12· ·delegate to a Panel any or all powers of the Board, 13· ·including the right to hold hearings.· We find that 14· ·established in NUPPAA -- sorry, the Nunavut Planning 15· ·and Project Assessment Act at Section 27. 16· · · · Moreover, there is a growing body of case law 17· ·beginning in commonwealth jurisdictions but now 18· ·becoming increasingly accepted in Canadian courts, 19· ·that -- sorry.· Sorry.· There is a growing body of case 20· ·law that supports the premise that the pandemic cannot 21· ·be used indefinitely as a reason to not hold hearings, 22· ·to not become flexible, to not proceed with matters 23· ·that ought to be proceeded with. 24· · · · So a combination of what we find in our own -- 25· ·very own land claim, our very own legislation, and this 26· ·case law supports proceeding as the Board has chosen to ·1· ·do.· Thank you. ·2· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Department of Justice ·3· ·representing the Government of Canada intervenors, ·4· ·Simon Gruda-Dolbec. ·5· ·Submissions by Department of Justice (Motion) (Hamlet ·6· ·of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit ·7· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) ·8· ·MR. GRUDA-DOLBEC:· · · · Qujannamiik.· This is Simon ·9· ·Gruda-Dolbec, legal counsel with the Department of 10· ·Justice Canada. 11· · · · The Government of Canada has no position to share 12· ·with respect to the three motions.· And just like the 13· ·Government of Nunavut, we would like to share the 14· ·Government of Canada's understanding that holding some 15· ·scheduled evening sessions allow for the participation 16· ·of community members who may not be available during 17· ·the day, for instance, for work reasons. 18· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Oceans North, Christopher 19· ·Debicki. 20· ·Submissions by Oceans North (Motion) (Hamlet of 21· ·Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit 22· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 23· ·MR. DEBICKI:· · · · · · ·Qujannamiik, Iksivauta. 24· ·Christopher Debicki, Oceans North. 25· · · · We have indicated our position that evening 26· ·sessions that run immediately after full-day sessions ·1· ·discriminate against Elders; the parents, particularly ·2· ·women; and people with disabilities attempting to ·3· ·participate fully in this process. ·4· · · · I would also note that, in my opinion, evening ·5· ·sessions don't necessarily enrich or assist this ·6· ·process.· They wear parties down.· They add additional ·7· ·stress and additional workloads that are not ·8· ·sustainable, in particular, over long hearings, and ·9· ·they affect the quality of the participation.· And I 10· ·would go so far as to say that they affect negatively 11· ·the way that we treat each other.· Tempers get short, 12· ·and patience runs thin. 13· · · · I agree with government positions that special 14· ·evening sessions are important to encourage 15· ·participation of people who have to work during the 16· ·day, but, certainly, that makes no sense as an argument 17· ·in support of continuing sessions, day sessions, and -- 18· ·and pushing them into the night to ensure that this 19· ·process gets done on time for all of the reasons that 20· ·I've just enumerated. 21· · · · I would just note personally -- I'm -- I'm looking 22· ·at the clock now.· I have to -- I have to pick up a 23· ·child at day care where I live.· We're in a code red 24· ·situation, which means I can't even hire a babysitter 25· ·if I wanted to.· And so this adds -- and I can only 26· ·imagine that many others find themselves with similar ·1· ·burdens and similar obstructions to full participation. ·2· ·And so we support the Sanirajak motion. ·3· · · · With respect to the second motion regarding Inuit ·4· ·Qaujimajatuqangit, we start from the principle that ·5· ·we're operating in Nunavut and -- and processes should ·6· ·be culturally appropriate, and I note, for instance, ·7· ·Rule 36.1, quoted several times today, describing the ·8· ·formal hearing in which we're operating as:· (as read) ·9· · · · A public meeting held primarily to allow the 10· · · · parties to present technical evidence to the 11· · · · Board. 12· ·While that may be the case, certainly Inuit 13· ·Qaujimajatuqangit should constitute and does constitute 14· ·technical evidence, and the mere fact that this is a 15· ·process where we're dealing with technical evidence 16· ·shouldn't then -- it doesn't follow that public 17· ·participation shouldn't be promoted to the greatest 18· ·extent possible in this process and not just pushed to 19· ·something that we call a community roundtable down the 20· ·road. 21· · · · With respect to the -- the third point, Madam 22· ·Chair, I am unclear, to be frank, why we're dealing 23· ·with only three panelists at this point.· I know there 24· ·was some explanation provided at the outset, and I -- I 25· ·trust that the Board is operating properly and with 26· ·quorum.· It's unfortunate that -- that there are ·1· ·panelists who are participating and Board Members ·2· ·asking very strong questions in the previous hearing ·3· ·date who aren't here, and I'll leave it at that. ·4· · · · And, finally, I would just note, just going back, ·5· ·Madam Chair, to -- to the first motion, Mr. Primeau's ·6· ·motion, I would just note that courts don't do this. ·7· ·They don't run hearings of this length and of this ·8· ·importance that go all day and then just plow through ·9· ·the evening just to get something done.· The Nunavut 10· ·Court of Justice doesn't typically do this and -- and 11· ·for good reason. 12· · · · And -- and so, again, emphatically, I suggest that 13· ·we not proceed in a way that wears us down and -- and 14· ·diminishes the quality of our participation.· Thank 15· ·you, Madam Chair. 16· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·World Wildlife Fund, Paul 17· ·Okalik. 18· ·Submissions by World Wildlife Fun (Motion) (Hamlet of 19· ·Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural Direction) (Ikajutit 20· ·Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers Organization) 21· ·MR. OKALIK:· · · · · · · Paul Okalik, World Wildlife 22· ·Fund. 23· · · · The three motions before us, it's in your 24· ·discretion, you, as a Board, and when we have to meet, 25· ·we are available any time. 26· · · · And with regards to Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, it ·1· ·has to be included with scientific technical.· It seems ·2· ·to be redundant.· We're in 2020 now.· Inuit ·3· ·Qaujimajatuqangit should be in balance with the western ·4· ·science.· I had never even considered it.· I always ·5· ·held view that Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit is in par.· So ·6· ·to me that it's redundant. ·7· · · · You, as a Chair, made it very clear -- and I ·8· ·believe what you said, that we have to carry on and ·9· ·complete, and I -- and I support that.· It's 10· ·unfortunate, and you have been diligent in the 11· ·proceedings.· That's not a worry, and you will continue 12· ·diligently as a Board, and if needed, we'll be 13· ·available at any time, and that is our position.· Thank 14· ·you, Madam Chair. 15· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Nunavut Independent Television 16· ·Network, Isabelle Gilles. 17· ·MS. GILLES:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair.· Can I 18· ·confirm that you hear me? 19· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Yes, you may proceed. 20· ·MS. GILLES:· · · · · · · Thank you, Madam Chair. 21· ·Isabelle Gilles for the Nunavut Independent Television 22· ·Network. 23· · · · We are not going to take position on these 24· ·motions.· Thank you, Madam Chair. 25· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Baffinland, Brad Armstrong. 26· ·Submissions by Baffinland Iron Mines Incorporation ·1· ·(Motion) (Hamlet of Sanirajak) (Motion) (Procedural ·2· ·Direction) (Ikajutit Arctic Bay Hunters and Trappers ·3· ·Organization) ·4· ·MR. ARMSTRONG:· · · · · ·Thank you very much, Madam ·5· ·Chair.· Brad Armstrong, legal counsel for Baffinland. ·6· · · · We agree with the points raised by legal counsel ·7· ·for the Government of Nunavut.· We submit that the ·8· ·Panel is properly constituted, and we submit that it is ·9· ·within the discretion of the Board to manage the 10· ·hearing, including motions, with a view to completing 11· ·the hearing within the schedule.· Thank you, Madam 12· ·Chair. 13· ·THE CHAIR:· · · · · · · ·Thank you to all for 14· ·presenting your motions and responses.· The Panel 15· ·reserves our decision and procedural direction until 16· ·such time as we have received all responses and can 17· ·convene for the disposition of motions. 18· · · · As I stated earlier today, we will be adjourning 19· ·for this evening to consider the motions that have been 20· ·presented to the Board.· We will resume the hearing 21· ·tomorrow morning at 9 AM where we will pick up where we 22· ·left off with respect to questions on the marine 23· ·environment, and I hope to see you all back tomorrow. 24· ·______25· ·PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED UNTIL 9:00 AM, FEBRUARY 2, 2021 26· ·______·1· ·CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPT: ·2 ·3· · · · We, Sandra Burns and Andres Vidal, certify that ·4· ·the foregoing pages are a complete and accurate ·5· ·transcript of the proceedings taken down by us in ·6· ·shorthand and transcribed from our shorthand notes to ·7· ·the best of our skill and ability. ·8· · · · Dated at the City of Edmonton, Province of ·9· ·Alberta, this 17th day of February 2021. 10 11 12 13· ·______14· ·Sandra Burns, CSR(A), RPR, CRR 15· ·Official Court Reporter 16 17 18 19 20· ·______21· ·Andres Vidal, CSR(A) 22· ·Official Court Reporter 23 24 25 26