Snowmachine group wants access to a piece of Kincaid Park Published: January 2, 2013 96 COMMENTSE-MAILPRINT
By ROSEMARY SHINOHARA — [email protected] ANCHORAGE — A Lions Club is asking the city to allow snowmachine use in the motocross area of Kincaid Park, on about 15 acres on the south side of the 1,500-acre park.
No other place in Anchorage is available for snowmachine races, said Dane Ferguson, president of the Alaska State Sno-X Lions Club. Ferguson, a past X Games competitor, said he'd also like to introduce people to freestyle snowmachining.
The Nordic Skiing Association of Anchorage doesn't think allowing snowmachines in the park is a good idea. Snowmachines in the past have travelled on ski trails, which is unsafe, said association executive director Diane Moxness. Noise is also a concern, she said.
The motocross area is closed in winter.
The park is best known during snow months for its world-class cross country ski trails. There are also single-track bike trails used year-round. In summer, Kincaid features soccer games, disc golf, motocross, runners, walkers and bicycle riders.
A public hearing on the Lions Club proposal is before the city Parks and Recreation Commission on January 10, said city parks superintendent Holly Spoth-Torres. The meeting starts at 6 p.m. at the Spenard Recreation Center.
Spoth-Torres said snowmachine use has never been authorized in the park, and city law prohibits snowmachines in parks unless they're specifically okayed.
But Jim Burkholder, a long-time resident who lives near the motocross parking lot, on Jodhpur Street, said there was quite a lot of snowmobile riding in the park until about four years ago. "Jodhpur parking lot was a disaster from the standpoint of some of the activity going on there."
Burkholder is against opening the area to snowmachines.
To allow snowmachines, the city would likely have to revise the Kincaid Park master plan, Spoth-Torres said.
Ferguson said the Lions Club would set up rules and be willing to enforce them, to hold down noise and keep snowmachine riders in the right area, and off the hills. The rules would include requiring the machines to use stock exhaust systems that are quieter than custom exhaust systems, he said.
The club would have a member there whenever the area was open, he said.
"We're going to start out lecturing people and making them sign and initial," he said. "We have no problem kicking you personally out of there." Supporters of the snowmachine club packed a Sand Lake Community Council meeting in November, said council president Dan Burgess. Afterward, the council voted to approve a letter saying the council "wishes to express our enthusiastic support and need for winter recreational motorized use in the Anchorage area."
The council did not endorse the Kincaid proposal per se, and council members asked the Lions Club to go talk to residents who live near the motocross area, Burgess said.
Another Lions group, the Anchorage Racing Lions, manages motocross events at Kincaid Park in summertime.
Reach Rosemary Shinohara at [email protected] or 257-4340.
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• Sarah HalfTime
If a motorsports park is warrented then they need a separate entrance with proper parking and off loading.
The current motorsports use area, (the dunes), should be designated as a mini mite area, so to speak. For the little tikes on motor bikes. Parking for a snowgo event, at the dunes area, would be horrible. In the winter, the dunes area can be used for sleding or snowboards.
The motorsports folks do need a arena. A place to show off their talents. Give them land for a arena. Include parking for the trailers needed for the machines. Stadium seats and all that.
This would involve totally reworking the park plan.
My personal use of the park is limited to birding in the spring, photographing paintball damage and cars run over the cliff side.
The separate parking and entrances for the non motorized and the mortorized would solve a lot of issues. o Like o Reply o Today 07:54 AM o 1 Like o Report Abuse •
• stirthepot
I now have two tanks and bought a dog team so I want to run dogs in the park, It's my right and I should have a place to run dogs and tanks. o Like o Reply o Today 06:03 AM o Report Abuse •
• 697777
What the skiers don't want to share??? Typical ALL FOR ME! It is a park so the snowmobile rides SHOULD get a place to ride!!! o Like o Reply o Today 05:46 AM o Report Abuse •
• stirthepot I have a tank and I want an area for tanks. I promise to only shoot blanks and quiet ammo until I get what I want then we can have exercizes and really tear up the area. We can have meets with other tank owners from other areas. It's our right. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:13 PM o 1 Like o Report Abuse •
• thehammer
bike riders and skiers can be as pompous as anyone o Like o Reply o Yesterday 06:48 PM o 2 Likes o Report Abuse •
• moonmist115
I remember a time when there wasn't all this "new lower 48 money" in Anchorage and folks of all walks got along without trying to edge
out anybody for their own gain. Anchorage was a harmonious place to live where everybody accomodated everyone's needs, even snowmachining.
Now it seems we have exclusive this and that, and gated communities are springing up everywhere. I suppose it's another sign of packing too many people into a small geographic area and they try to outshine one another with piles of money. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 06:47 PM o 2 Likes o Report Abuse •
• stirthepot
I think it's looking for security from thieves, rude people and noise.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:00 PM o in reply to moonmist115 o Report Abuse •
• FredBearAK Thieves? Rude People? Noise? DId you watch the News tonight on KTUU where the represenative of Nordic Ski
Association said they dont want to WORK TOGETHER? RUDE! Thieves??Wasn't there vehicles broke into last week in the parking area close to the proposed area?? YES! Having a responsible user group around this area frequently would surely eliminate things of such and if you don't agree..Well you're just another individual that is probably hard to get along with and doesn't work well with others. Noise...... Give me a break.."airport is enough noise" well I guess I will make a rediculous comment to that by saying maybe all the air traffic will dampen the sound of snow machines when this area is opened! Better yet maybe the air traffic will dampen the sound of all the "rednecks" and their familys enjoying a nice winter day at the track..One thing is forsure, they will be happy with the 1% of allowed property of the 1500 Acre park EVERYONE is supposed to enjoy..Did that stir your pot? Working together will get you further than LABELING yourself as BETTER. What a joke
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:22 PM o in reply to stirthepot o 3 Likes o Report Abuse •
• thehammer
the residents in the area deal with the roar of airplane engines daily...no more flying? o Like o Reply o Yesterday 06:46 PM o Report Abuse •
• stirthepot
Proves that there is enough noise already, what's the point of making more? Don't think the majority would want to see the planes leave.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:04 PM o in reply to thehammer o Report Abuse •
• AKRealist99
I can sympathasize with the honest respectful snowmobilers but I have to agree 100% with keeping a ban on them. The section they want
will be boring within days of use. There are also already plenty of snowmobilers who sneak in already. If people disregard regulations now; do you really believe they will become respectful of others later on? It will only get much worse. I personally don't move if someone "orders" me to. If they ask nicely and I can easily accommodate, I do. Some people on snowmobiles, atvs and even bikes get really aggressive.
If you are skiing or hiking, the noise IS deafening when they keep riding around you. The riders can really scare smaller kids and dogs. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 02:38 PM o 8 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Motorheadedskiier
Reading half these comments makes me sick. You people will find anything to complain about. Noise you say from a couple sleds or
dirtbikes down in a huge hole surrounded by thick forest. Residents around the area are trying to get kincaid "MOTOSPORTS PARK" shutdown because of the noise. This motorsports park has been here since the early 70s! Well before it was turned into a residential are. You moved there knowing this. Therfor you have no room to complain,dont like it you should have moved somewhere else. You cant stand the noise from motorcycles and snowmachines ; wich you can just barely hear from the closest house to the park . Yet do you expect them to shutdown the airport? Those planes , hundreds of them a day make 10 times the noise any amount of snowmachines and dirtbikes do. Glen Alps is rarely open to snowmahining, when it is you can only hear a sled for a few minutes till they are a half mile, maby less away.you say "High pitched whining"as if thats all you hear up there, you are so full of it. Then you say why does every area have to be shared. Tell me of another area in Anchorage other than glen alps and kincaid that is shared. There are not any! Yet there are hundreds of miles, thousands of acres for skiing, hiking etc.. We motorsports enthusiasts are asking for 15 acres of the thousands and thousands of acres you have to ski and run on. Not to mention kincaid motosports park was donated as just that! A motosports park! Renegades will always poach your trails. They do today with the park closed in the winter. i have experienced it first hand as a skiier on these exact trails. Allowing it to open will not change that either way. However providing them with a place to ride legally may greatly reduce them from going on your trails you have everywhere in the city with not one place for us snowmachiners to ride. Also snowmahcines do not do that much damage to your ski trails.In fact in some states that cant afford groomers they use snowmachines to groom these ski
trails, Imagine that. Pollution , give me a break. A couple sleds a day put out less polution than the thousands of carrs driving into the area to ski,bike , or get to their homes. Then theres those airplanes again burning thousands of gallons of fuel on takeoff and filling the community with their pollution! OMG WE CANT ALLOW PLANES TO FLY ANYMORE! All we want is a place to enjoy what we love doing. A place to raise a child in ALASKA where you used to be able to ride your snowmachines wherever you wanted. A place to let our kids ride have fun and better themselves at something. You skiiers, bikers, hikers etc have thousands of places and hundreds of miles to do your thing in the city. Why cant we have one little piece of it? A piece that has been used for motosports for decades. This is alaska, this is what we do. Get over it o Like o Reply o Yesterday 02:31 PM o 11 Likes o Report Abuse •
• stirthepot
Learn to ski and raise a child in peace and quiet and respect the out doors for what is and not some torn up noisy place. Also if the area is so poluted and noisy there surely doesn't need to be any more, glad you see what people are against.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 02:52 PM o in reply to Motorheadedskiier o 4 Likes o Report Abuse •
• hockeytown
You missed the part where the person said they also skiied, I guess. There is no reason not to use the motocross track for
snowmachineing. The skiers did the same thing at FNBP against the horses on trails that were already for horses also. You want every single trail to yourselves. Sad.
(Edited by author 20 hours ago)
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 02:59 PM o in reply to stirthepot o 4 Likes o Report Abuse •
• LeapingMooses
It is very hard to find sympathy for the skiers when they have almost exclusive use of a municipal park during
the winter. If they were a bit friendlier and willing to share the space I might be inclined to chime in with support for them. They do not share so perhaps they need to to be taught to. Good on the snowmachiners for trying to get permission to use this area.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 08:22 PM o in reply to hockeytown o 2 Likes o Report Abuse •
• stirthepot
Skiers aren't a noise or disruption to the area.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:06 PM o in reply to LeapingMooses o 1 Like o Report Abuse •
• 697777
Really?? How do the trails get groomed?? By a machine> HELLO
o Like o Reply o Today 05:49 AM o in reply to stirthepot o Report Abuse •
• Braxton_Leo
First of all, we need to do away with the community council system. Then, maybe we can build trails, snowmachine areas, ball parks, and
such without NIMBY obstructionism. The only people who attend those kind of meetings are those who find it more satisfying to mind other people's business than to have a life of their own.
(Edited by author 22 hours ago) o Like o Reply o Yesterday 01:22 PM o 6 Likes o Report Abuse •
• stirthepot
Move to Bethal, it's wide open.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 02:53 PM o in reply to Braxton_Leo o 2 Likes o Report Abuse •
• 697777
How about skiers learn to SHARE????
o Like o Reply o Today 05:50 AM o in reply to stirthepot o Report Abuse • • lovewinter
I recall hiking on Resurrection Pass Trail last winter, pulling a sled. I was ordered off the trail by a snow machine user so he could pass. No compromise. It had been warming and starting to rain, but I had to unharness and lift and carry my sled into the deep snow because he could not move. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 12:53 PM o 3 Likes o Report Abuse •
• clearly12
Whats your point? Eliminate contact with sledders because someone was rude to you?
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 02:04 PM o in reply to lovewinter o 1 Like o Report Abuse •
• lovewinter
My point is that motorized vehicles will always have the power to threaten and endanger non-motorized users and that
some user groups are inherently incompatible with a variety of non-motorized mixed uses. The trail can quickly become one use only rather than multi-use.
(Edited by author 21 hours ago)
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 02:08 PM o in reply to clearly12 o 4 Likes o Report Abuse •
• clearly12
It is one use only, we want multi use, since we are also owners, at least as much as you are, we to should be able
to use it as we want. If you think conflict will happen then make it 3 days sleds 3 days skiers 1 day closed. If the idea of sharing our resource with the rest of us is unsettling, ski somewhere else. perhaps on your private property. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 02:13 PM o in reply to lovewinter o 1 Like o Report Abuse •
• lovewinter
I am trying not to be belligerent. I do appreciate the different needs and uses, but I find your reply
provocative as written in the second person. That aside, your reply does not address my point. The park is currently used by walkers, bikers, skijorers, and skiers, all non-motorized user groups. So, yes, there are multiple uses. Those uses do not rip up the trails or cause significant noise. My anecdote suggests that the number or capacity of users in non-destructive and quiet sports is very high. However, once motorized, noisy, and dominating uses come into play in the same area, other uses are excluded.
The nordic community has expended private resources to improve the park, and it supports a strong and thriving children's program that contributes to the overall health of the city. I strongly believe that motorized sports will do better in their ow location, and I would support a venture of that sort.
It's a little like trying to share the water among motorboats, swimmers, and kayakers. The motorized vehicles will always dominate and potentially endanger the other users. Therefore, many bodies of water separate out such uses.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 02:24 PM o in reply to clearly12 o 5 Likes o Report Abuse •
• 697777
So then do like they do a Turnagian Pass One side for you one side for them> SIMPLE
o Like o Reply o Today 05:53 AM o in reply to lovewinter o Report Abuse •
• lovewinter
In the experience I shared, the person on the snow machine claimed he could not
move to the side, that the trail was too narrow, and that he could not go off trail. He expected me to yield. I still had miles to walk in warming temps and rain, so I didn't want to go off trail in deep snow. Compromise and yield came 100% from my side. It was a no-snow machine year. On the resurrection pass trail, they alternate years for snow machine access. However, local residents have the right to snow machine any time, any year. That's what he claimed, and I expect that to be true.
o Like o Reply o Today 07:30 AM o in reply to 697777 o Report Abuse •
• blueberryak
The snowmachiners and Sno-X Lions Club should rally their user group and create a real sno-go track somewhere just out side of town, perhaps in Eagle River?... o Like o Reply o Yesterday 12:50 PM o 6 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Terraplane_Blues
Hell NO! o Like o Reply o Yesterday 12:11 PM o 5 Likes o Report Abuse •
• wsdm
Why do we need an inner city park to allow motorized machines? Yes, noise is a huge issue with snowmachines, since sound travels quite far
in the winter months. Just go up to Glen Alps sometime and 'enjoy' the high-pitched whining of snowmachines ripping up Powerline trail. Why does every last recreational area have to be 'shared'? Why not set aside certain areas for motorized use, and keep others for non- motorized use? Kincaid is heavily used by skiers and walkers in the winter and I don't see why we need to allow a tiny user group to make it a less enjoyable, if not outright dangerous experience for everyone else. An inner city park is NOT the place to allow snowmachines! o Like o Reply o Yesterday 11:42 AM o 11 Likes o Report Abuse • • GARBO
I'm not sure I would classify Kincaid as "inner-city." You ask, why not set aside certain areas? I think that is the whole point of this, right? To have a certain area for snow machines? I think 15 acres of land that already has motorized use in the summer is a fair request in a 1400+ acre park.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 12:27 PM o in reply to wsdm o 12 Likes o Report Abuse •
• clearly12
But you don't understand, WHAT IF THEY RUN OVER A BUNNY??????
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 02:05 PM o in reply to GARBO o 1 Like o Report Abuse •
• GARBO
Rational discussion will result in better outcomes.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 03:24 PM o in reply to clearly12 o 1 Like o Report Abuse •
• tmerritt411
In Kincaid Park, I'm a year-round mountain biker and winter skier. Although I personally don't live next to Kincaid Park, I do have friends, family and co-workers who do. I have absolutely no problem (nor, I imagine, do the aforementioned persons) with a snowmachine group also using the park. We all live here in Anchorage, therefore the park belongs to us all. It's time for people to realize that everything will end up better in the end if we start working together. This 6th grader "us vs. them" attitude everyone seems to have (on both sides of everything lately) accomplishes nothing for everybody. And as an aside...noise...really, noise!?!?! One of the busiest cargo airports in the world is literally overhead, so, you know, quiet down. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 11:25 AM o 21 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Alaskanlifer
There are hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages that have been caused by people on motorized vehicles in the parks. Most would stay
off, but the temptation would be to much for some. Nordic skiers pay to have those trails groomed. Yes, the trails are user supported, When or if a skier or mountain biker ever got on the motocross/Snowmachine venue, they would not cause any damage. The same can not be said about snowmachine or dirt bikes.
I've been buzzed, intimindated by yahoo's and punched by idiots on sleds. I am sorry, but the best intentions of the motor group will not stop some of these renegade morons (the rest of the group should not be offended, I'm not talking about you. You know who I am talking about)! Sorry for the name calling, but that is what they are! o Like o Reply o Yesterday 11:03 AM o 7 Likes o Report Abuse •
• FredBearAK
If you read through these commments it's clearly one sided. By this I mean comments like "lets carry rifles" "rednecks" "criminals" and so forth. Is this really what this user group is about (skiers)? Or is this the bad apples showing there non-support for the opening of winter use to an area that ALREADY has motorsports? I dont see any rediculous comments from the "rednecks" or "criminals" on the comment thread. Instead I see this..Motorsport enthusiasts trying to work together to create a happy medium. No harm in this. Noise? Testing has proven that snowmachines with stock pipes abide by the city ordinance and fall below the 60 decipal rating 50ft from edge of property. Air pollution? G ive me a break. This user group is asking for 1% of this MULTI USE PARK. They dont want on your trails, they dont want to harrass or vandalize your trails. Its 2013, its not the 70-80- or even 90's anymore. With correct facility management and infrastructure this is 100% possible just as the Anchorage Racing Lions have proven during the summer months. Lets not forget this is a group of Lions from the worlds largest organizations. Do we really think they are "Criminals"???? o Like o Reply o Yesterday 10:26 AM o 11 Likes o Report Abuse •
• JamesMason
The problem is the renegade element. I've encountered teenagers on snogos on the ski trails and they are invariably rude, aggressive, and hostile. We're not complaining about the mainstream, law-abiding snow machiners. It's the punks. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 01:46 PM o in reply to FredBearAK o 1 Like o Report Abuse •
• 697777
I meet rude TEENAGERS on skis what's your point??? That since you meet a rude teenager a whole group of people is not allowed to use a public place??
o Like o Reply o Today 05:58 AM o in reply to JamesMason o Report Abuse •
• blueberryak
What about the air pollution? All the snowmachines in the center of the park while people are skiing and kids are sledding....
Snowmachines tend to be quite irritating on the lungs; much more so than the dirt bikes in the summer time. Does this not worrie anyone else? o Like o Reply o Yesterday 10:02 AM o 5 Likes o Report Abuse •
• march
nope,, it's too insignificant to worry about. But you should keep your kid inside their bubble and away from all that car exhaust getting to Kincaid so they can ski in unpolluted air...
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 10:18 AM o in reply to blueberryak o 9 Likes o Report Abuse •
• blueberryak
100-250, two- stoke engines running all day, everyday is "insignificant"? The fact that the cold air keeps the exhaust pollution low to the ground in the winter could cause serious air pollution in the park and possibly the entire Anchorage bowl.... errr, unless of course, you think air pollution is just a myth...
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 10:34 AM o in reply to march o 7 Likes o Report Abuse •
• march
yup,, still say it's insignificant. You have 1485 other acres to play with all your elitist spandex clad friends. You should enjoy them.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 04:18 PM o in reply to blueberryak o Report Abuse •
• Guest
Comment removed.
o Like o Yesterday 10:58 AM o in reply to blueberryak o 6 Likes o Report Abuse •
• blueberryak
Your correct, the plane exhaust is bad enough.... Luckly, most of that exhaust is high above the ground
and it has a chance to disipate between planes. Additionally, you can't smell plane exhaust like a two- stoke engine. Adding a huge user group of two-stroke machines WILL have an impact on air quality. Obviously, you have never had any experience helping those with breathing issues...
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 12:44 PM o in reply to Guest o 4 Likes o Report Abuse •
• thehammer follow the logic: in summertime do we ban motocross because its "noisy"? Do we ban bike riders because they threaten walkers? Do we ban archery because an errant arrow may kill a walker? Do we ban soccer because the very nature of heading a ball can cause concussions? o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:50 AM o 4 Likes o Report Abuse •
• H82LUZ
It is time for a real multi-use motorsports complex in Anchorage! However, Kincaid Park is not the answer. The motorsports group needs a
large well designed 20 acre area to recreate, just as the non-motorized group has. The area needs to be designed properly for the anticipated use including noise. A multi-sport motor complex could be used for dirt bikes, jet skis, atvs, utvs, etc, in the summer. In the winter the same track could be used for snowmobile racing and freestyle events such as this proposal. Pro racing events for any/all disciplines could be held to generate revenue and entertainment for the city. The motorsport groups do not want to bother residents with the noise as they like to sleep also. Kincaid motocross track is situated in a terrible location and is constructed out of dangerous rock and debris. Using a residential area for this activity is a mistake in planning and simply needs to be fixed. A land swap agreement should be worked out to move the track to a location near the West end of the airport, or another industrial zoned area. The motorsports group would gladly move if there was a better venue for this activity. Most would agree to a user fee if the complex was well designed. There is plenty of land near the airport and noise would not be a problem at the end of the runway. Kincaid ski area could then be expanded into the motocross area making everybody happy. There is a huge motorsports user group that should not be overlooked politically.
Instead of bickering let’s get a real solution!
http://www.independent.com/new...
(Edited by author 1 day ago) o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:36 AM o 9 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Greg Moore
We could use the Marsh Flats close to Downtown for the park, oh wait that wouldn't work, we would disturbe the fishes, birds,
whales and the residents of downtown. How-about a place on the hillside, oh that wouldn't work. We would disturb the bears, birds, ground squirrels, and the residents of the Hillside. What about the Park Strip?, oh that wouldn't work, we would disturb the homeless, residents, businesses, geese and tourists. I guess the only place is for the snowmachiners to drive 100 miles north of Anchorage or 50 miles south of town. That way none of the greenies are bothered by the redneck, gun totting, alcohol drinking snowmachiners that populate Anchorage.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 10:50 AM o in reply to H82LUZ o 5 Likes o Report Abuse •
• H82LUZ
This attitude will never solve the problem.
Open google earth. Check out the area just south of the water treatment plant near the end of the North runway. This would be the best location. Noise issues? solved!, Smell issue? solved! Land Quantity? plenty! All utiltiies? Check!
Just need a 2 for 1 land swap deal and funding...
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 11:06 AM o in reply to Greg Moore o 4 Likes o Report Abuse •
• FredBearAK
Finally someone that hears our message. This has been a long time coming and we have been working on this for years!
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 10:16 AM o in reply to H82LUZ o 4 Likes o Report Abuse •
• clearly12
This is a real solution, or are you saying to spend $20 million and make yet another park?
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:47 AM o in reply to H82LUZ o 1 Like o Report Abuse • • H82LUZ
How much was spent on Kincaid ski area? Yes... a nice facility could be built for the same amount invested in Kincaid ski area. The existing moto park would be closed in my proposal.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:49 AM o in reply to clearly12 o 3 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Axlegrease
There are huge vacant lots all over Anchorage. Why not groom one of them for racing, etc.? o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:35 AM o 4 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Greg Moore
Those vacant areas are owned by someone.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 10:51 AM o in reply to Axlegrease o 1 Like o Report Abuse •
• thehammer
The Nordic Skiing Association doesn't own Kincaid Park. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:23 AM o 10 Likes o Report Abuse •
• iowaparrish
True, smugness does not an owner make. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:25 AM o in reply to thehammer o 3 Likes o Report Abuse •
• iowaparrish
How about allowing pedestrians back in the park while they're at it! o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:16 AM o 7 Likes o Report Abuse •
• surfbore
there probably is a lot of motorized users in NYC too, but doubt they have a sled track at Central Park...some area's are just not harmonious with multi use for everyone... o Like o Reply o Yesterday 08:13 AM o 7 Likes o Report Abuse •
• JamesMason
Every skier a biathlete with a rifle o Like o Reply o Yesterday 07:36 AM o 2 Likes o Report Abuse •
• itstrue
no o Like o Reply o Yesterday 06:46 AM o 2 Likes o Report Abuse • • stirthepot
Every time you open an area up to machines you are asking for trouble. You will always find the jerks that will push the limit like up on the hillside and the rest just look the other way. Regardless of the noise restrictions the noise carries a long ways on cold clear mornings and the neighborhood will be sorry. There is enough area of the state they can go to without being in town and everybody can't always have whatever they want. I would say no as there is to much of the state already over run with noisy machines. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 05:55 AM o 10 Likes o Report Abuse •
• clearly12
Fortunatley, when these same people wear skies, they are no longer jerks.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:53 AM o in reply to stirthepot o 7 Likes o Report Abuse •
• lovewinter
The difference is that people on skis are quiet, you wouldn't even know they were there unless you were right next to
them, and skiers don't damage the trails. In fact, they pay voluntarily to maintain them and work in the summers to develop them, even for those who choose not to pay or work. People on snow machines can be heard for long distances, and if they go off trail, they can do considerable and lasting damage. It's not an exact comparison. It's like saying that kayakers are as imposing as motorboats.
That doesn't mean there are not strong arguments on both sides. I am simply saying that your analogy is false and ignores the key differences that several posting are describing.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 12:50 PM o in reply to clearly12 o 3 Likes o Report Abuse •
• moose907 Maybe all the ney sayers that don't won't the precious trails so called treshed by Snowmachines ,be willing to pay a fee too use the trails to
keep them groomed as i'm sure most snowmachiners would!But yet the other trail users are beyond that,it makes more since to them for the rest of the people that don't use the trail system to have to help pay their way! o Like o Reply o Yesterday 02:29 AM o 6 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Alaskanlifer
It is a complete fantasy if the organizers of this group think that they can control people with signatures. I find motocross riders on the trails
every summer.. The snowmobilers will be no different. It is too dangerous to allow this nuisance and will cause far more damage to the expensive trail system grooming in winter months. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 01:50 AM o 9 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Greg Moore
I propose that since the skiers are in danger of being hit by the snowmachiners. We close the park to skiers and open it up to snowmachiners only.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 10:55 AM o in reply to Alaskanlifer o 9 Likes o Report Abuse •
• El_Fudd
The idea initially sounds good and I`d advocate almost anything to lessen the numbers of noisy sleds at Turnagain Pass and associated Seward Hwy traffic. Let`s face it- the stock exhaust rule will be broken on the first day and every day after that. Then there will be the occasional renegade rider running his almighty power machine on the groomed ski trails as the temptation is too much for a few bad ones spoiling it for everyone. It`ll be interesting to see how this one plays out. o Like o Reply o Yesterday 12:57 AM o 5 Likes o Report Abuse • • 134859
Exactly how are they going to hold down the noise? o Like o Reply o Yesterday 12:27 AM o 6 Likes o Report Abuse •
• march
Same way they keep the noise down from all the jets landing and taking off from the airport next door.. Oh,, wait.. They don't do they? Guess the elitist skiers are ok with jet noise,, lol..
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 07:45 AM o in reply to 134859 o 12 Likes o Report Abuse •
• stirthepot
Pull them with dogs
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 05:57 AM o in reply to 134859 o 2 Likes o Report Abuse •
• RKN
That won't work; where skiers are concerned Kincaid park in winter is caninus non grata.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 08:44 AM o in reply to stirthepot o 5 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Drink_The_Tea
Potatoes in the pipes! o Like o Reply o Yesterday 01:02 AM o in reply to 134859 o 3 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Axlegrease
LOL! Boiled eggs work good, too...
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 09:38 AM o in reply to Drink_The_Tea o Report Abuse •
• JamesMason
The renegade snow machine element won't stay off the ski trails. Skiers should arm themselves. o Like o Reply o 01/02/2013 11:47 PM o 9 Likes o Report Abuse •
• AlaskaLaw
What a horrible idea!
Maybe they should just open up a shooting range, a rock concert venue, and a dune buggy course, while they're at it. o Like o Reply o 01/02/2013 11:47 PM o 9 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Greg Moore
Great idea. Lets give this person credit for starting a multiuse park that will be used by all. Oh wait, Kinkaid Park already has a Shooting Range and has held rock concerts. We just need the dune buggy or 4-wheeler course.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 10:58 AM o in reply to AlaskaLaw o 2 Likes o Report Abuse •
• march
Great idea, I love it!
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 07:45 AM o in reply to AlaskaLaw o 5 Likes o Report Abuse •
• JamesMason
There is a shooting range. For biathlon. I saw Taj Mahal perform at Kincaid, but so far no dune buggy course.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 06:23 AM o in reply to AlaskaLaw o 7 Likes o Report Abuse •
• Reasonablecash
If they want to take responsibility, let them. Make sure they're in it hook line and sinker though, so if ANY riders misuse the trails, whether
they belong to the Lion's club or not, the Lion's club members will be wholly responsible for the cost of repairs, including overtime for groomer operators. o Like o Reply o 01/02/2013 11:38 PM o Report Abuse •
• stirthepot
You have to be kidding. Not if, but when, the jerks push the limits everybody would just look the other way and shake their heads. Once they are allowed you will never shut it off, There are plenty of areas where they can get away from population.
o Like o Reply o Yesterday 06:02 AM o in reply to Reasonablecash o 7 Likes o Report Abuse • • FredBearAK
I think this is a great idea. This is "Kincaid Park MULTI USE Area" correct? As stated about this group "Lions" which are members of the largest community service organization in the world, are trying to use 15 acres of the 1500 acre park. This is 1%! Is it possible for everyone to work together? Is it possible that a organization such as Alaska State Sno-X can manage the area and provide infrastructure to the track? I think so. There is over 200 miles of trails in Anchorage and of all of it 0 is for motorized use. The Jodphur motocross track has been there for over 30 years. I think its great that the possibility of this area being opened year round with the correct management could become a reality. A place to take the kids on a short ride during the week? or weekend? The closes place for an Anchorage resident to ride now is past Girdwood or the North end of the Matnuska Valley. Think of the positive things this can unravle. Work together! Trapping? I'm not going to even get into that because this topic isn't about trapping. Criminals? Are we segregating now? If they can control the motocross in the summer IT IS WORTH GIVING THEM A CHANCE TO EXECUTE IT IN THE WINTER! Cheers to the guys fighting for their passion and not to mention going about it in correct fashion.
Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2013/01/02/2740668/snowmachine-group-wants- access.html#disqus_thread#storylink=cpy