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Jazz Inside Magazine ISSN: 2150-3419 (print) • ISSN 2150-3427 (online) February-March 2020 – Volume 10, Number 9

Cover Photo and photo at right of Vic Juris by Eric Nemeyer

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CONTENTS 4 Vic Juris — Remembering A Great INTERVIEWSINTERVIEWS Visit these websites: CLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTS Guitarist 22 Bbby Watson JazzStandard.com 13 Calendar of Events 23 Photo Gallery: Kenny Garrett, Wynton Jazz.org 20 Clubs & Venue Listings Marsalis, Charlie Persip, Ahmad Jamal JJBabbitt.com MaxwellDrums.com

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JI: A few years ago when I interviewed Pat Marti- no, he said that had the guitar come first, it— instead of the piano—would be the dominant chord Vic Juris instrument in music.

Remembering Guitarist Vic Juris, 1953-2019 VJ: It’s true. In Latin music, the guitar, string-like instruments are what the piano players play. So the guitar really came first in that situation. Interview & Photos by Eric Nemeyer JI: Yeah. I was reading something where these days everything is preconceived and it’s involved JI: What was the vibe like in doing the session? JI: You have a new album on Mel Bay. Describe in humili-tainment—you know, losing your job, Did you rehearse or was it impromptu or did you the process of the creation of the new album, A losing your girlfriend or wife. have specific instructions or dialogues that you had Second Look? with the musicians? VJ: I remember when I got my first guitar synthe- VJ: I love playing standards. So we decided to sizer in the ‘80s. Do you know Peter Sprague, gui- VJ: We rehearsed some, and the tunes that Lieb- format the record as five originals and five stand- tar player on the West Coast? man played on were things that we played in his ards, either jazz standards or Broadway-type stand- group a little bit. So he was familiar with the ar- ards. I had a lot of originals ready to go. And the JI: Yes. rangement of “All the Things You Are,” as well as standards I chose were “Indian Summer,” which is this other—I kind of re-worked “Woody ‘N You.” an old song, I can’t remember the composer. I VJ: He said to me, “The first thing that’ll happen There’s something on there called, “Dizzy, Trane, know Sonny Rollins recorded it—just a beautiful when you get a guitar synth is you’ll lose your and You.” I took part of Dizzy’s original harmony melody. I did that in trio. And there was a Keith girlfriend,” because you have to learn how to pro- of “Woody ‘N You” and then I put some “Giant Jarrett song from way back, one that he did with gram it. You have to spend all that kind of time Steps” changes on it, on one part of it, which be- Dewey Redman, the band with Paul Motian— with it. But the guitar synth never really caught on. came the Trane part. And then a little bit of my ”Shades of Jazz.” So I’ve been playing that a lot own, I kind of went up in half steps in “two fives” with a trio that I have with Tim Horner and Bill JI: It’s tough, because musicians who really are on the bridge. And I had given that to Liebman, Moore. So that one was kind of ready to go. And I into the music, for the most part, really want to and we played it in his group a few times. That was wrote a complete re-harmonization of “All the make music instead of being musical scientists, as probably the hardest thing to record. Harmonically Things You Are.” Dave Liebman once said in some clinic that I went it was the hardest thing to improvise on. to many years ago. JI: Can you elaborate on that a bit? What kind of JI: Was your approach to do several takes and find harmonic ideas were you pursuing? VJ: Yeah, but I tell you, Liebman really likes the the best one or was it one-take through? effects that I’m using. I’ve got a whole basement JV: It’s funny. I found a sequence of a few chords full of stuff. I’m catching up to John Abercrombie. VJ: Fortunately, we did the record at Jay Ander- on the guitar, fingerings that kind of spelled out the He probably has more or had. I think he lost a lot in son’s studio. So Jay not only played bass on it, he melody of that song. So it kind of happened by the fire in his house. I have a lot of amps and ped- was engineering at the same time.

JI: Where’s his studio?

VJ: His studio’s in New Paltz, New York. He lives “Just one of those things that about two blocks from ex-heavyweight champion, Floyd Patterson. I’m a real boxing fanatic. So I was really impressed that we were recording two blocks I didn’t set out to do that kind from Floyd Patterson. Actually, they’ve got a nice community up here. Jay Clayton lives right near there. And they also have a nice, little artsy com- of happened. And that always munity up here. They’ve got a few little places where people play. But he built a really good studio. So, as a result, we were able to record for three days. And then Jay and I tweaked some stuff the seems to be the best stuff. last day. So I was there for four days.

JI: I guess you have a lot of outtakes and other cuts The unintentional is always that you could have used that are equally as good.

VJ: We got pretty much everything in two or three the most pure …” takes. And there’s a lot of acoustic guitar on there too. So I did quite a bit of overdubbing—not quite a bit, but some. accident. And then I just kept going. I kept playing als. So I’m constantly messing with that stuff. I this sequence of minor chords that kind of just don’t use it all, but on occasion, I use it. JI: Could you talk about how interactivity plays a went down the neck of the guitar. The arrangement, part in your conception of the music, specifically in a way, kind of wrote itself. Just one of those JI: But it serves the music as opposed to the other improvisation? things that I didn’t set out to do that kind of hap- way around. pened. And that always seems to be the best stuff. VJ: Interaction is really, to me, what jazz is all The unintentional is always the most pure, I think, VJ: Absolutely. I wouldn’t have it any other way. about. I would never approach trio playing as the especially in this day and age. I’ll only use that stuff to kind of enhance the sound, guitar being accompanied by bass and drums. I especially with Liebman’s band since we became a (Continued on page 6)

4 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 5 JI: When we lived in Brooklyn, and we’d go to that you just mentioned. And some of them like Vic Juris somebody’s house, it seemed like there’d always Jim Hall, and Kenny Burrell, and George Benson be somebody taking out an accordion. I thought it later became friends of mine, which was totally was amazing, like they had some extraordinary amazing to me, because they were and still are my (Continued from page 4) talent and that they were really gifted to hold this heroes. So I spent a lot of time with the masters, really like collective playing. I’m constantly listen- enormous thing. We would never have one. I re- transcribing and constantly listening to that stuff. ing to everybody. And that’s what gets lost some- member having an Emenee organ. I’m still a total guitar fanatic, even the new guys times in guitar trios. I noticed sometimes. It’s the that are coming up now. I get all the CD’s. I think guitar being the focal point with bass and drums VJ: Exactly, I had one too. it’s an extremely important thing to go back and be accompanying it. I really love to hear collective a historian on your instrument, especially in jazz. playing, especially when I go out to hear live mu- JI: In Brooklyn, they offered lessons after school . It’s such a short history, anyway. And today, eve- sic. I’m always looking for that. I mean I’ve heard So one day my first grade teacher said, “Anyone rything is so readily available, with internet and just about every great solo you could possibly hear interested in taking piano lessons, come back at recordings. It’s probably a better time to learn than at this point in my life. I’m really conscious of a three o’clock”—we got out at one—“and bring two any other. But all those guys were an influence on group sound, and what that means. dollars—a dollar for your lesson, 50 cents for a me. cardboard keyboard, and 25 cents each for a book JI: Given enough time and practice, one can devel- and a manuscript book. JI: What kind of efforts have you taken to either op technique to play the most astonishing solos that assimilate or even avoid their influence to develop are technically flawless and works of athletic feats. VJ: Amazing, but I started out just learning how to your own approach? read. As a matter of fact, the first book I had was VJ: I remember Lee Konitz told me one time, The Mel Bay Primer. He just kind of started me VJ: I think with me, it kind of happened naturally. “They talk about older players being more econom- reading right away, which in those days you had to And plus you’re influenced by the environment ical. It’s because they can’t think of anything to do what your teacher said. You didn’t tell the you’re in too, who you end up playing with . I was play any more.” But it’s true, you reach a certain teacher what to do. playing in the ‘70s with Don Patterson, but I was point—I remember as a young player, the older also playing with modern players like Eric Kloss guys would say, “You’re playing too many notes. JI: Back then the tail wasn’t wagging the dog in and Barry Miles. So I was kind of paralleling both You’re playing too many notes.” But if you don’t America. worlds. Plus, I grew up in the ‘60s. So I was into play too many notes in the beginning, you have rock, too, and still am. That’s really part of my “the older guys would say, ‘You’re playing too many notes. You’re playing too many notes.’ But if you don’t play too many notes in the beginning, you have nothing to edit later on. And so, living your life becomes your natural editor as you go along. I listen to recordings of myself, and I’ve been recording for almost 30 years now, and I play about 80 percent less than I played then.”

nothing to edit later on. And so, living your life VJ: So you did what you were told. foundation. I tell students now some of the bands I becomes your natural editor as you go along. I heard live. They can’t believe it—like being able to listen to recordings of myself, and I’ve been re- JI: That’s all well and good, I think. go hear Hendrix, and Cream and The Doors. The cording for almost 30 years now, and I play about stuff that’s the classic rock now, you could go hear 80 percent less than I played then. VJ: Yeah, I think so too. Even the guitar players in those guys for five bucks on the weekend. Plus, I those days, everybody was reading, all the kids. grew up near The Village. I lived right across the JI: With no musicians in your family, you taught They were all learning how to read, which I’m river in New Jersey. I used to go over and hear yourself. What kinds of encouragement and sup- eternally grateful for that. It comes in handy today. Monk, and Keith Jarrett and Larry Coryell. There port did you experience at home growing up to- was so much music happening at the time, in the ward that end? JI: What influence did someone like Charlie Chris- late ‘60s and early ‘70s. Fusion was becoming tian or Wes Montgomery or George Benson or Jim popular. Plus, the straight-ahead scene was strong. VJ: Well, I really didn’t teach myself. That’s not Hall or others that you might want to cite have on All the players at that time, we were dabbling in true. I had a teacher, a guy named Ed Berg, who your style? both worlds. was a local jazz player where I grew up in Parsipanny, New Jersey. So he taught me right VJ: Well, I spent a lot of time with all the people JI: Do you want to talk about your association with from the beginning. My parents didn’t know any- Dave Liebman in whose group you’ve been a long-

thing about music. They were totally baffled. They standing member?

didn’t know what was happening, especially to “Encroachment play the guitar. I started in the early ‘60s before the VJ: I actually met Dave Liebman in the middle of freedom will not come British invasion. So guitar wasn’t really that popu- ‘80s in a workshop in Germany. And we didn’t about through one violent action lar. As a matter of fact, the music store that my really stay in touch, and then we got a gig in 1990. or movement but will come about teacher owned, they had more accordion students And I had kind of reached a crossroads. I was even through a series of actions that appear than guitar students at that time. So I had to sit in thinking of getting out of music, because the busi- to be unrelated and coincidental, but the waiting room with about seven accordion stu- ness was getting so strange. The ‘80s for me was a that were all along systematically dents warming up. Just about on every block in very strange decade. It just seemed like a lot of planned for dictatorship.” those days, there was a kid who played the accordi- things had just stopped and started again. And them on. I met him, and he was just about to end the Quest — John Adams, 2nd President — Anton Chekhov (Continued on page 8)

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To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 7 time that Monk was teaching all of them the half- VJ: Amazing, really amazing. Duke’s music is Vic Juris diminished chord. So he started putting that in a lot really incredible. That whole association with Billy of his tunes—“Woody ‘N You,” “A Night in Tuni- Strayhorn, too. Strayhorn’s music is just so deep. sia.” But if you think about it prior to “‘Round (Continued from page 6) Midnight,” you always see the half-diminished JI: Strayhorn, when I look at the tunes he wrote, band—the band with Richie Beirach, Billy Hart, chord notated as a minor-sixth chord. his harmonic understanding contributed a whole and Ron McClure. And we had done a gig and he rainbow of colors to Duke’s otherwise bluesy ori- sounded me about a new band that he was thinking JI: Yeah. You’d go from F-minor sixth to G-seven ented approach. of putting together. And that just kind of rekindled to C. my interest. VJ: I remember, I heard Stan Getz play Stray- VJ: Yeah, so if you look at old fake books, you horn’s “Bloodcount” in a club, and I never knew JI: And that was around what time? don’t really see that [the half diminished 7 chord]. about this tune. And I went out and tried to find the So I kind of think that he was saying that Monk music and learn it immediately, an incredible piece. VJ: That was in ‘91. It was myself, Phil Markowitz was the inventor of that chord. I remember buying I think it’s one of the last things he wrote. He wrote on keyboards, Tony Marino on bass, and Jamey an album by Stan Getz when I was a teenager it on his deathbed, something like that. Just amaz- Haddad on drums and percussion. And I’ve been called Sweet Rain. And there was a beautiful ver- ing. with him ever since. sion of “Con Alma” on that record. And I just fell in love with that tune. That bridge always baffled JI: Could you talk about performing with vocalists JI: What are some of the challenges you’ve experi- me. One thing with Dizzy, I got a chance to ask like Mel Torme and Sarah Vaughan? enced in Dave’s band? him about that. It was just amazing how much he knew. I play with the alumni band once in a while VJ: I did a concert, I think it was in the early ‘80s, VJ: There’s a lot of bandleaders that aren’t very with Faddis and John Lee. John Lee is a bassist that at Carnegie Hall. No, before that, because Eddie vocal about what they want, but he’s extremely lives right around the corner here. Jefferson—the late Eddie Jefferson—got me on the meticulous about what he wants, as far as the gig. And it was Eddie, and Sarah Vaughan, and I heads, way of voicing the chords and rhythm. And JI: I met him awhile back. I didn’t know him, and believe Benny Carter. And the Sarah Vaughan then once you get that, you have the total green he’s originally from Philadelphia, too—35 years portion of the concert was with a big band. And I light to improvise and do whatever you like. The ago. didn’t expect her to be at the rehearsal, but I discipline of working on the music, but I’ve also showed up at the rehearsal, and there she was sit- been able to develop my own thing with the guitar VJ: As a matter of fact, he’s my neighbor and The- ting at the piano. And she kind of led most of the through him. Plus, he’s taught me a lot about har- lonius Monk, Jr. lives about a block from here, too. rehearsal, from the piano, like going over the charts mony and things, especially now in the quartet. I see those guys a lot. It’s just amazing to have that and everything. Man, it was amazing. Mel Torme I We’ll sit down and we’ll nitpick two or three moment to share with somebody like that. recorded with in the ‘80s. And the record I did, I chords for an hour. He’ll sit at the piano. So it’s think he wrote three or four of the charts. But it really enabled me to make the guitar more pianis- JI: The tune starts in E and then on the bridge it was the same kind of thing—total, total musician, tic. goes to that C-minor seven flat five. It could have at the piano. They knew every aspect of what was going on. You wouldn’t think, but I was just amazed at how complete these people were and their dedication was just amazing. “A lot of younger people won’t have JI: What kind of adjustments do you find you have to make to play with vocalists versus instrumental- the apprentice opportunities that ists?

I’ve had. I’m kind of like at the tail VJ: Well, my wife, Kate Baker, she’s a great vocalist and we do a lot of duo stuff together. So we’ve found all kinds of ways for voice and guitar. end of the generation that really got As a matter of fact, she sings on my Second Look record. So we’ve worked on doing things with lines or I’ll just play bass lines and she’ll sing. We’ve to apprentice with the masters, found all kinds of guitar-voice possibilities.

JI: Did you meet through the music? because a lot of people now coming VJ: Yeah, actually, we did. out of schools, they’re going to JI: Could you talk about working with Gary Pea- cock or the experiences you had playing with him be playing with their peers.” in a duo or small group?

VJ: Gary and I have worked as a duo and also we JI: You’ve played with Dizzy Gillespie. Can you gone anywhere. I remember reading someplace had a quartet for a while with Tim Hagans and talk about any key lessons that you’ve gleaned years ago that Ellington was working on John Riley. And we experimented with some of from that association? “Sophisticated Lady,” and on the bridge, if you’re Gary’s chordless originals where we would play a in A-flat, then the bridge goes to G. In some book certain hit and then there’d be some free improvisa- VJ: I only played with him a couple of times, but that I was reading—he had two or three different tion. And we also experimented with taking some one time after one of the gigs, we were both pack- sketches, going to three different tonalities, that he standards and playing them rubato and dissecting ing up and everybody was gone. I said, “Can I ask was considering for the bridge. The story was that the form and doing all kinds of things to that. The you a question?” He said, “Yeah.” I said, “‘Con he agonized about which of those he was going to band was terrific. It’s a shame we never recorded. Alma,’ why did you go to that D minor seven flat use for the bridge. You wonder sometimes what We stayed together for about a year. But it was five chord on the bridge?” He said, “Oh, you want goes through, the thought process, like what kind of hard to get work, it you could believe it. to know about that?” Now, he gets up and we go to prompted Dizzy to choose that? There weren’t too many people who were interest- the piano. And he told me that at that particular (Continued on page 10)

8 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 9 and work on it, I think that means a lot. ly taking out ads. Vic Juris JI: Did you get these charts in advance? JI: I get to see a lot as a publisher Mel Bay appears to be fair and honest and they’re very organized. (Continued from page 8) VJ: I got them at the rehearsal last week. And we And all the reports I get are people have good ex- ed in booking it. just hit, and tomorrow’s the recording. periences. And I think the way you treat your customers is the same way you treat your employees. JI: When you were working on those freer forms JI: I think it’s a really good idea to take stuff and Whereas, in my humble experience, when I’ve seen after the melody, what kinds of influences or ele- work it on through. A lot of people get the miscon- people get treated poorly as customers or as em- ments were driving the improvisations? ception that people just show up and it happens. ployees, invariably, it’s across the board. It’s a When it sounds the best, there is rehearsal that goes good thing that you’re with them. I think they’re VJ: Sometimes things would happen where Gary behind it, no matter how good of a player you are, doing more and more recognizing that they have a would play solo for a while or Tim and I would because something new is going to challenge you niche with guitar. And now they’re making use of play together or it could be just guitar and drums. in a certain way and you’ve got to negotiate it and signing people like yourself to do records, which is And then Gary had a way of coming back in and make it your own before you can really sail with it. great. centering the whole piece. He’s one of the most amazing musicians anywhere. He knows every VJ: Plus, it’s a recording. Once you record it, you VJ: The other thing that I’m really happy about standard ever written. Plus, he’s played with Albert got to live with it for the rest of your life. That’s it. now is that I’m starting to write books also, be- Ayler. Here’s a guy who’s held down a chair in the Especially a lot of jazz sessions, most of them are cause I’m involved in education, teaching at The Keith Jarrett band as well as the Albert Ayler group one day or six to seven hours, and that’s it. That’s New School and at Rutgers University. So I’m So he has a really good scope on playing either why I was so grateful with my new record, having working with a lot of young players now. Not only way. Plus, he has just great ears. He has probably the opportunity to have a few days to make an al- guitarists, but teaching ensembles. the most amazing ears of any musician I’ve ever bum that’s more polished. played with. But when you enter that environment, JI: Have you had any input or suggestions from when you enter somebody’s world that’s in that, JI: I go for the same thing. When I did that album producers during recordings that you’ve done when you decide to become a part of it. You’d be amazed a couple of years ago, I did 29 tracks, but wound you’re functioning as a leader or sideman that what you can come up with. You just have to free up using ten, but there were a couple of takes on a served to inspire or challenge or even on the flip- yourself when you’re playing free. You can’t ap- couple of them. I wanted to make sure it was just side of that, hinder your performance? proach free music as B-flat seven, because then it’s right and take my time rather than feel rushed. I not free any more. Then you’ve put a tag on it. I understand that the owner of Steeplechase Records VJ: I haven’t worked much with producers, lately. find it more difficult to improvise in that situation comes over here and he has guys record in the af- In the old days when I recorded for Muse, which than to play on changes. If I play a set with a band ternoon and at night, pays them some flat, low fee, later became High Note. There were always pro- like that, I’m totally exhausted at the end of the and it’s one time through, and he’s got the album. ducers. There were guys like Michael Cuscuna, night. And I think they’re kind of rough in some cases. who were very good who always had interesting points. But lately, there’s rarely a producer in the JI: What are the things that you really find difficult VJ: That’s what this is tomorrow, Steeplechase. studio. Sometimes, it’s helpful, somebody to over- or challenging and that compel your capital of con- see the session and make sure people are in tune, scious energy during those activities? JI: So he’s here. He’s going to do one at night, one little things like that. But it’s becoming a lost art. I in the afternoon. He does 10 a week, and he goes think a lot of people can’t afford it anymore either. VJ: The whole key is the listening element. If home with 10 albums. A lot of labels are barely staying alive. So they’re you’ve got a quartet and you’ve got four people cutting back on a lot of things. that are listening, the sky’s the limit, but also in a VJ: Exactly, it’s amazing. Isn’t it? lot of free bands, you can format certain things. JI: What’s the nature of your practice approach? Like if you listen to Ornette’s bands, the heads are JI: Yeah, it is. Now, you’ve recorded for Steeple- extremely tight. Those bands are very well re- chase and Zoho and Mel Bay and others. Maybe VJ: I’m really a practice-a-holic. About seven hearsed. I know with Gary, we used to work on you can discuss some of the experiences you’ve years ago, I decided to start studying with Charlie really getting heads tight and having that aspect of had that have helped you develop your own busi- Banacos. Charlie’s probably the greatest teacher in it together. And then, you can talk about the im- ness acumen for dealings and performances and the country for jazz. And I decided that I have to prov, what you’d like to see happening. There’s a contracts and so forth? Tell us what you’ve learned take a lesson every week, because that just keeps lot for discussion. It’s not always just a bunch of about human nature as a result of these experienc- me in the mix. So I always want to make sure that I cats blowing anything. es. have something to work on. There always is anyway, between recording and gigs and stuff like that, JI: What perspectives or sensitivity do you feel VJ: Fortunately, I’ve gotten paid for all the records but he’s turned me on to so many different con- you need to bring to bear in your performances as a that I’ve done, but now there’s a whole new thing cepts. We worked on hexatonics and pentatonics, sideman that enable the leader or the soloist to going on where you deliver the master and then chord clusters, voicings, and so many different maintain his or her overall influence or style and you have to buy six to eight hundred CD’s. So, kinds of things, and plus a lot of composition. You direction and to feel supported rather than having here you’re giving someone a record for free, and know, writing tunes. I think it’s a very important been led? then you got to still purchase the CD. It’s amazing. thing.

VJ: At 51 years old, I’ve been a sideman much JI: It sounds like a little bit of a scheme. JI: Did you choose him over any other teachers for more than a leader. So I always go into it, “Why specific reasons? has this person called me to begin with?” And usu- VJ: It is. And then here you’ve paid all the musi- ally it’s because they’ll feel that I want to make cians already. And now you have labels that still VJ: He’s taught so many great players: Mike Stern, them sound good. So I’ll do whatever I can to learn want you to pay and become a partner. That’s why Gary Dial, Dick Oatts, Helio Alves, so many peo- the heads properly. As a matter of fact, I’m doing a you’re going to see a lot of people putting CD’s out ple who’ve all highly recommended him over the record date tomorrow with this young alto player themselves. I’ve had one experience with that. years. And I just find his approach to be one that named Loren Stillman with Gary Versace on key- Jeremy Steig and I put out a duo record together, really works for me. boards and Jeff Hirshfield on drums. He wrote that we actually put out ourselves. But I don’t real- about seven difficult tunes, and it’s one rehearsal ly see that much of a difference. The difference JI: Do you go to his studio? and one day of recording. So I have to really prac- now is that with Mel Bay, this is like the first time tice. And I think that if you get a reputation as in my life, with 30-somewhat years in the business VJ: It’s funny. I’ve been studying with him for someone who’s going to take the music seriously that I’ve had a label that’s behind me that’s actual- (Continued on page 12)

10 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 11 the extensions? What are the alterations? I look band. Vic Juris more at that than how fast I can go from C-minor to F-minor. But, hey, having great chops is always JI: The market is such that the powers-that-be want better than the alternative. It’s a good thing to prac- the next youngest sensation who’s 18. And that (Continued from page 10) tice anyway to keep your hands strong, because person gets immediate success and world-wide seven years. I’ve never met him. We do it totally sometimes you might have to record something, acclaim and unbeknownst to them, by the time by correspondence. fast passages. You’ve got to be ready to do that. they’re 20, they’re going to be looking for somebody younger to replace them to have more hype, JI: How does that correspondence work? JI: With 30 years experience playing various situa- to be able sell products. tions with very experienced players, you’ve had a VJ: He sends a tape and a sheet of paper. I do the chance to see a lot of different things. Maybe you VJ: It’s amazing, because when I was growing up lesson put it on the tape, send back what I write, could talk about what the pitfalls are that we have jazz was never marketed. It was always something and it works great for both of us. It’s as simple as to be vigilant about encountering or succumbing to you had to seek out like the mystery of music. that. in our lives pursuing a career and creativity in music? JI: You could also approach everybody you want- JI: And for you, that provides you with a modicum ed to without having handlers try to keep you of discipline that you’re looking for? VJ: I think the best thing you can do for yourself is away. to number one take care of your health. I’ve seen VJ: Absolutely. As a matter of fact, I’m two weeks so many people fall by the wayside either due to VJ: But even with the older guys, when they decid- behind right now, because I did a record with Lieb- drugs or alcohol or being crazy. You gotta take ed that you were going be in their band or that you man last week. We did a record of all his blues care of yourself. This music is so difficult mentally were going to work for them, they would show you stuff. And then I’m working on this project for and physically to play, taking care of your health is something, the information was so sacred. Where tomorrow. And so as soon as I’m done with tomor- really number one, especially for younger people. today, you’re teaching in a school. Sometimes I row’s project, I’m going to work on that lesson for It’s amazing that Charlie Parker and John Coltrane, feel like a vending machine. “How do you play him. what they did in such a short life. What would have over a B-flat seven flat five?” “Ok, well, you play happened if they lived another 30 years? I think the F-melodic minor scale.” “Ok.” And then it’ll go JI: Could you talk about some of your ideas about health is really number one. somewhere else. I remember when Eric Kloss, the composition and the interplay between harmony, saxophonist, when we were kids, we would sit melody, rhythm that you’ve developed and incor- JI: What interests or activities do you have in addi- around and try to figure out all this stuff for our- porated into your perspectives? tion to music besides boxing? You mentioned that selves. you’re a big boxing fan. VJ: You know what I’m trying to do more now? I JI: You had to transcribe solos and you had to use know one approach that Dave Liebman has told VJ: I go to the gym whenever I can. There’s a local your ears. It wasn’t, as Gary Campbell had men- me, if you’re at the piano, the anatomy of the hu- gym. I like to go and work out, try to stay in shape. tioned to me, written out like scriptures. man hands. You have the bass in the lower part of I like to read too. I really enjoy reading. the left hand. And the harmony’s kind of in the VJ: Exactly. You had to figure out or you had to center, and then the melody on top, the upper part JI: What kind of things do you like to read? go to people that really knew about it. There were of the right hand. I’m trying to think more about only a few people really teaching the science then. that. So I’m trying to shed more things where may- VJ: I like to read literature, novels. I’ve always I know Liebman went to Lennie Tristano. be I’ll write a bass line and then a melody and then been into that, even as a kid. I’ve read hundreds of put in the harmony as a last step. I’m trying to do books. JI: He talked about that in the interview I did with more of that. And that’s a little harder to do on the him. He would go out there. It would take him two guitar than it is the piano. I wish I had better piano JI: What words of wisdom have you received from or three hours to get out there. He’d go into his facility, because I think it’s really great for writing. some teacher or mentor? Or if there’s a quotation house, which was big and dark and it was all scary So most of what I write is from the guitar, but I do or an idea that’s inspired you, maybe you can share and creepy. a lot of multi-tracking. it with us. VJ: There were only a few guys. There were some JI: Earlier you talked about how when you started, VJ: I’ve had so many teachers, not only private heavy teachers, but now, it’s amazing the stuff you were playing a lot more notes and then through teachers, but teachers like Don Patterson, Sonny that’s available now. I look at the play-alongs and life experience you kind of began to edit yourself Stitt, Phil Woods. There’s just been so many words the books about theory. It’s just endless. Like I said down and really made those notes mean more and of wisdom over the years, but watching people before, it’s just such a great time to learn. So as a so forth, and use space, and then, of course, more work, just being a sideman, just being in as many result, a lot of the younger players are more ad- interactivity can become part of it, because you’re different situations as possible is something that I’ll vanced now. not filling everything up. Could you talk about the be eternally grateful for. A lot of younger people temptation to focus on technique over the music won’t have the apprentice opportunities that I’ve itself that some artists experience and how you had. I’m kind of like at the tail end of the genera- have developed a balance? tion that really got to apprentice with the masters,  because a lot of people now coming out of schools, VJ: I was actually born with good technical facili- they’re going to be playing with their peers. The ty. I never really had to work too hard on that. I thing that saddens me the most is my generation, a was always able to play fast, which can work as a lot of us never really got to be full-time leaders, detriment sometimes. If you’re good at playing just due to the nature of the business.

fast, you’re going to use it. [laughs] There’s just no way around it. Anybody who’s good at playing JI: The locations, the opportunities to play have “Ultimate success is not slow, well, you know [more laughs]. So, for me, shrunk. directly related to early success, even now sometimes I have to slow down, but I if you consider that many successful don’t think I’m as bad as I used to be. I’m more VJ: I thought that by this time at this age that I’d people did not give clear evidence interested in this point in my life, more in phrasing be working exclusively as a leader, because that’s of such promise in youth.” and rhythm and starting at different points in the usually how the chain of command would go. You bar and things of that nature or how clearly can I would play as a sideman. You would record as a describe this chord that I’m playing on. What are leader. And you’d naturally start leading your own - Robert Fritz, The Path Of Least Resistance

12 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880

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 Scott Colley Quartet - Ralph Alessi, Trumpet; Craig Taborn, Wednesday. January 1 Piano; Scott Colley, Bass; Nasheet Waits, Drums; Village  Chris Botti; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Spike Wilner Trio; Abraham Burton Quartet; Malik Mclaurine; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Thursday, January 2  Gonzalo Rubalcaba Trio D’été; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Chris Botti; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Wednesday. January 8  Chris Potter Circuits Trio - Chris Potter, Saxophone; James  Amina Figarova Sextet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, Francies, Keyboard; Eric Harland, Drums; Village Vanguard 60th & Bdwy 178 7th Ave S.  Maurice “Mobetta” Brown Birthday Vibes Session; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Music Of Bob Brookmeyer Directed By Ryan Truesdell; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Friday, January 3  Scott Colley Quartet - Ralph Alessi, Trumpet; Craig Taborn,  Gonzalo Rubalcaba Trio D’été; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Piano; Scott Colley, Bass; Nasheet Waits, Drums; Village Center, 60th & Bdwy Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Chris Botti; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Emanuele Cisi Quartet; Simona Premazzi Quintet; Neal  Chris Potter Circuits Trio - Chris Potter, Saxophone; James Caine; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Francies, Keyboard; Eric Harland, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Thursday, January 9  Brianna Thomas Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, Saturday. January 4 60th & Bdwy  Gonzalo Rubalcaba Trio D’été; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln  Philly Reunion: Joey Defrancesco, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Chris- Center, 60th & Bdwy tian Mcbride & Lil’ John Roberts; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Chris Botti; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Melissa Aldana Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Chris Potter Circuits Trio - Chris Potter, Saxophone; James  Scott Colley Quartet - Ralph Alessi, Trumpet; Craig Taborn, Francies, Keyboard; Eric Harland, Drums; Village Vanguard Piano; Scott Colley, Bass; Nasheet Waits, Drums; Village 178 7th Ave S. Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Hayes Greenfield Trio; Joris Teepe Quartet; Davis Whitfield; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Sunday, January 5

 Gonzalo Rubalcaba Trio D’été; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Friday, January 10  Chris Botti; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Brianna Thomas Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center,  Chris Potter Circuits Trio - Chris Potter, Saxophone; James 60th & Bdwy Francies, Keyboard; Eric Harland, Drums; Village Vanguard  Spiritual Sounds And The Jazz Age - The Jazz At Lincoln 178 7th Ave S. Center Orchestra With Wynton Marsalis Revisits Two Of Its Most Acclaimed Originals: Victor Goines’ Untamed Elegance, And Chris Crenshaw’s God’s Trombones; Rose Theatre, Jan Monday, January 6 10-11, 8pm; Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Philly Reunion: Joey Defrancesco, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Chris- MONDAY NIGHTS WITH WBGO - Ashley Pezzotti Quintet;  tian Mcbride & Lil’ John Roberts; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Lizz Wright; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Maurice “Mobetta” Brown Birthday Vibes Session; Blue Note,  Scott Colley Quartet - Ralph Alessi, Trumpet; Craig Taborn, 131 W. 3rd St. Piano; Scott Colley, Bass; Nasheet Waits, Drums; Village  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

 Mike Rodriguez Sextet; Philip Dizack Quartet; Brooklyn

Circle; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Tuesday, January 7

 Ed Cherry Quartet Featuring Peter Bernstein; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Saturday. January 11  Maurice “Mobetta” Brown Birthday Vibes Session; Blue Note,  Russell Hall Presents The Feeling Of Romance; Dizzy’s Club, 131 W. 3rd St. Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Music Of Bob Brookmeyer Directed By Ryan Truesdell; Jazz  Spiritual Sounds And The Jazz Age - The Jazz At Lincoln Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Center Orchestra With Wynton Marsalis Revisits Two Of Its (Continued on page 14)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 13 Most Acclaimed Originals: Victor Goines’ Untamed Elegance, 60th & Bdwy  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. And Chris Crenshaw’s God’s Trombones; Rose Theatre, Jan  Philly Reunion: Joey Defrancesco, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Chris-  French Quarter Festival- Géraldine Laurent; Anne Paceo; 10-11, 8pm; Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy tian Mcbride & Lil’ John Roberts; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Plume; Jonathan Jurion; EYM Trio; Ben Barnett; Small's, 183  Philly Reunion: Joey Defrancesco, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Chris-  Tivon Pennicott With Strings; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. W. 10th St. tian Mcbride & Lil’ John Roberts; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Scott Colley Quartet - Ralph Alessi, Trumpet; Craig Taborn,  Lizz Wright; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Piano; Scott Colley, Bass; Nasheet Waits, Drums; Village  Scott Colley Quartet - Ralph Alessi, Trumpet; Craig Taborn, Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Piano; Scott Colley, Bass; Nasheet Waits, Drums; Village  Mike Karn Quartet; Bruce Harris Quintet; Alon Near; Small's, Tuesday, January 14 Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. 183 W. 10th St.  Christian Sands Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center,  Mike Rodriguez Sextet; Philip Dizack Quartet; Eric Wyatt; 60th & Bdwy Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Maceo Parker; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Michael Leonhart Orchestra With Special Guest Anat Cohen; Monday, January 13 Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Isaiah J. Thompson Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln  Julian Lage Trio - Julian Lage, Guitar; Jorge Roeder, Bass; Sunday, January 12 Center, 60th & Bdwy Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Brubecks Play Brubeck; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center,  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Gerry Gibbs - Thrasher People; Steve Nelson Quartet; Jon Elbaz; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Wednesday. January 15  The Curtis Brothers “Algorithm” Album Release; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Maceo Parker; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Michael Leonhart Orchestra With Special Guest Jeff "Tain" Watts; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Julian Lage Trio - Julian Lage, Guitar; Jorge Roeder, Bass; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Gerry Gibbs - Thrasher People; Francisco Mela Trio; Andrew Kushnir; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Thursday, January 16  Atom String Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Maceo Parker; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  David Murray Octet "Revival"; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Julian Lage Trio - Julian Lage, Guitar; Jorge Roeder, Bass; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Gerald Cleaver Violet Hour Sextet; Ameen Saleem Quartet; Malick Koly; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Friday, January 17  Walter Blanding Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Cen- ter, 60th & Bdwy  Maceo Parker; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  David Murray Octet "Revival"; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Julian Lage Trio - Julian Lage, Guitar; Jorge Roeder, Bass; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Kenny Davis Quartet; Jean-Michel Pilc Trio; Corey Wallace Dubtet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Saturday. January 18  Walter Blanding Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Cen- ter, 60th & Bdwy  Maceo Parker; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  David Murray Octet "Revival"; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Julian Lage Trio - Julian Lage, Guitar; Jorge Roeder, Bass; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Kenny Davis Quartet; Jean-Michel Pilc Trio; Mimi Jones And The Lab Session; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Sunday, January 19  Walter Blanding Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Cen- ter, 60th & Bdwy  Maceo Parker; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  David Murray Octet "Revival"; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Julian Lage Trio - Julian Lage, Guitar; Jorge Roeder, Bass; Dave King, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Kenny Davis Quartet; Jean-Michel Pilc Trio; Mimi Jones And The Lab Session; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

(Continued on page 16)

14 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 15 Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Monday, January 20  Jazz At Lincoln Center Youth Orchestra; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Sunday, January 26  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Benny Green Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th  Sam Newsome Quartet; Joe Farnsworth Group; Ben Barnett; & Bdwy Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Dizzy Gillespie All-Stars; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Dave Stryker Quartet Featuring Warren Wolf; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Joe Lovano & Dave Douglas Quintet - Sound Prints - Joe Tuesday, January 21 Lovano, Saxophone; Dave Douglas, Trumpet; Lawrence  Sean Mason Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th Fields, Piano; Linda Oh, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village & Bdwy Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Dizzy Gillespie All-Stars; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Chris Byars Original Sextet; Johnny O'Neal Trio; Hillel Salem;  Ed Cherry Trio; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Joe Lovano & Dave Douglas Quintet - Sound Prints - Joe Lovano, Saxophone; Dave Douglas, Trumpet; Lawrence Fields, Piano; Linda Oh, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Monday, January 27  JD Allen Trio; Frank Lacy Group; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Benny Benack III: “A Lot Of Livin’ To Do” Album Release Party; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Wednesday. January 22  Ari Hoenig Trio; Giveton Gelin Quartet; Sean Mason; Small's,  Larry Willis: A Life In Jazz Featuring Willie Jones III, George 183 W. 10th St. Cables, Jeremy Pelt, Steve Davis, Justin Robinson And Gerald Cannon; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Dizzy Gillespie All-Stars; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Tuesday, January 28  Kendrick Scott Oracle; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  James Morrison Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Cen-  Joe Lovano & Dave Douglas Quintet - Sound Prints - Joe ter, 60th & Bdwy Lovano, Saxophone; Dave Douglas, Trumpet; Lawrence  Antonio Sanchez & Migration; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Fields, Piano; Linda Oh, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village  Brubeck Brothers Quartet Celebrates Dave Brubeck's Cen- Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. tennial; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Matt Pavolka's Horns Band; Tomas Janzon Quartet; Kyle  Jakob Bro Quartet - Mark Turner, Saxophone; Jakob Bro, Benford; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Guitar; Thomas Morgan, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Taru Alexander Quartet; Steve Nelson Quartet; Jon Elbaz; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Thursday, January 23  Benny Green Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Dizzy Gillespie All-Stars; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Wednesday. January 29  Kendrick Scott Oracle; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Benito Gonzalez Trio: Tribute To McCoy Tyner; Dizzy’s Club,  Joe Lovano & Dave Douglas Quintet - Sound Prints - Joe Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Lovano, Saxophone; Dave Douglas, Trumpet; Lawrence  Antonio Sanchez & Migration; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Fields, Piano; Linda Oh, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village  Vijay Iyer Solo; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Jakob Bro Quartet - Mark Turner, Saxophone; Jakob Bro,  Orlando Le Fleming Trio; Stafford Hunter & Continuum; Davis Guitar; Thomas Morgan, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village Whitfield; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Ronnie Burrage & Holographic Principle; Nicole Glover Trio; Neal Caine; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Friday, January 24  Benny Green 3; Dizzy’s, Jazz At Lincoln Ctr, 60th & Bdwy Thursday, January 30  Dizzy Gillespie All-Stars; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Nilson Matta’s Brazilian Voyage; Dizzy’s, JALC, 60th & Bdwy  Dave Stryker Quartet Featuring Warren Wolf; Jazz Standard,  Transformation With Glenn Close And Ted Nash - The Jazz 116 E. 27th St. At Lincoln Center Orchestra With Wynton Marsalis Performs  Joe Lovano & Dave Douglas Quintet - Sound Prints - Joe A New Work By Jlco Member Ted Nash And Award-Winning Lovano, Saxophone; Dave Douglas, Trumpet; Lawrence Actor Glenn Close; Rose Theatre, Jan 30-Feb 1, 8pm; Jazz Fields, Piano; Linda Oh, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Igor Butman & The Moscow Jazz Orchestra; Blue Note, 131  John Bailey Sextet; Paul Nedzela Quartet; Wallace Roney W. 3rd St. Jr.; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Vijay Iyer Trio; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Jakob Bro Quartet - Mark Turner, Saxophone; Jakob Bro, Guitar; Thomas Morgan, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Saturday. January 25  David Liebman Trio; Tim Hegarty Quartet; Malick Koly; Jazz Lovers’  Benny Green Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th Small's, 183 W. 10th St. & Bdwy  Dizzy Gillespie All-Stars; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Dave Stryker Quartet Featuring Warren Wolf; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Friday, January 31  Joe Lovano & Dave Douglas Quintet - Sound Prints - Joe  Nilson Matta’s Brazilian Voyage Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz Lifetime Collection Lovano, Saxophone; Dave Douglas, Trumpet; Lawrence At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Fields, Piano; Linda Oh, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village  Transformation With Glenn Close And Ted Nash - The Jazz Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. At Lincoln Center Orchestra With Wynton Marsalis Performs JazzMusicDeals.com JazzMusicDeals.com  John Bailey Sextet; Paul Nedzela Quartet; Brooklyn Circle; (Continued on page 17)

16 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880  Fred Hersch Trio - Fred Hersch, Piano; John Hébert, Bass;  Emmaline; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Eric Mcpherson, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra - Celebrating 54 Years Of Monday

 Tony Moreno Group; Matt Haviland Quartet; Small's, 183 W. Nights; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. “Some people’s idea of 10th St.  Jay Rodriguez Trio; Nasheet Waits Group; Small's, 183 W.  Dee Dee Bridgewater; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. 10th St. free speech is that they are free  Russell Hall Presents Concrete Jungle: The Music Of Bob  Roberta Gambarini & Friends, Valentine’s Celebration Valen- to say what they like, but if anyone Marley; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy tine’s Celebration; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Bobby Watson & Horizon Featuring Victor Lewis; Dizzy’s says anything back that Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy is an outrage.” Thursday, February 6  Ravi Coltrane Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Fred Hersch Trio - Fred Hersch, Piano; John Hébert, Bass; Friday, February 14 Eric Mcpherson, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Dianne Reeves - Nea Jazz Master And Grammy Award- - Winston Churchill  Brandi Disterheft Group; Jonathan Saraga Sextet; Small's, Winning Vocalist Dianne Reeves Sets The Mood For Valen- 183 W. 10th St. tine’s Day Weekend; Rose Theater, Feb 14–15, 8pm; Jazz At A New Work By Jlco Member Ted Nash And Award-Winning  Dee Dee Bridgewater; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Actor Glenn Close; Rose Theatre, Jan 30-Feb 1, 8pm; Jazz  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra - Celebrating 54 Years Of Monday  Igor Butman & The Moscow Jazz Orchestra; Blue Note, 131 Friday, February 7 Nights; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. W. 3rd St.  Ravi Coltrane Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Uri Caine Trio; Eddie Allen Quintet; JS Williams; Small's, 183  Vijay Iyer Trio; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Fred Hersch Trio - Fred Hersch, Piano; John Hébert, Bass; W. 10th St.  Jakob Bro Quartet - Mark Turner, Saxophone; Jakob Bro, Eric Mcpherson, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Roberta Gambarini & Friends, Valentine’s Celebration Valen- Guitar; Thomas Morgan, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village  Rachel Z. Hakim; Quincy Phillips Group; Small's, 183 W. 10th tine’s Celebration; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. St.  Freddy Cole: Songs For Lovers; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln  Scott Wendholt/ Adam Kolker Quartet; Joe Farnsworth Quar-  Dee Dee Bridgewater; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Center, 60th & Bdwy tet; Corey Wallace Dubtet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Charlie Sepúlveda & The Turnaround; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At  Dianne Reeves - NEA Jazz Master And Grammy Award- Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Winning Vocalist Dianne Reeves Sets The Mood For Valen- Saturday. February 1 tine’s Day Weekend; Rose Theater, 8pm; Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Transformation With Glenn Close And Ted Nash - The Jazz

At Lincoln Center Orchestra With Wynton Marsalis Performs Saturday. February 8 A New Work By Jlco Member Ted Nash And Award-Winning  Ravi Coltrane Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Saturday. February 15 Actor Glenn Close; Rose Theatre, Jan 30-Feb 1, 8pm; Jazz  Fred Hersch Trio - Fred Hersch, Piano; John Hébert, Bass;  Dianne Reeves - Nea Jazz Master And Grammy Award- At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Eric Mcpherson, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Winning Vocalist Dianne Reeves Sets The Mood For Valen-  Igor Butman & The Moscow Jazz Orchestra; Blue Note, 131  Rachel Z. Hakim; Quincy Phillips Group; Mimi Jones And The tine’s Day Weekend; Rose Theater, Feb 14–15, 8pm; Jazz At W. 3rd St. Lab Session; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Vijay Iyer Trio With Special Guest Wadada Leo Smith; Jazz  Dee Dee Bridgewater; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Charlie Sepúlveda & The Turnaround; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra - Celebrating 54 Years Of Monday  Jakob Bro Quartet - Mark Turner, Saxophone; Jakob Bro, Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Nights; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Guitar; Thomas Morgan, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village  Uri Caine Trio; Eddie Allen Quintet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Roberta Gambarini & Friends, Valentine’s Celebration Valen-  Scott Wendholt/ Adam Kolker Quartet; Joe Farnsworth Quar- Sunday, February 9 tine’s Celebration; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. tet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Ravi Coltrane Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Freddy Cole: Songs For Lovers; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln  Nilson Matta’s Brazilian Voyage Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz  Fred Hersch Trio - Fred Hersch, Piano; John Hébert, Bass; Center, 60th & Bdwy At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Eric Mcpherson, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Dianne Reeves - NEA Jazz Master And Grammy Award-

 Jim Greene Quartet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Winning Vocalist Dianne Reeves Sets The Mood For Valen- Sunday, February 2  Dee Dee Bridgewater; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. tine’s Day Weekend; Rose Theater, 8pm; Jazz At Lincoln  Charlie Sepúlveda & The Turnaround; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Center, 60th & Bdwy  Igor Butman & The Moscow Jazz Orchestra; Blue Note, 131 Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy W. 3rd St.

 Jakob Bro Quartet - Mark Turner, Saxophone; Jakob Bro, Sunday, February 16 Guitar; Thomas Morgan, Bass; Joey Baron, Drums; Village Monday, February 10  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra - Celebrating 54 Years Of Monday  Brandon Sanders Sextet; David Gibson; Small's, 183 W. 10th  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Nights; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. St.  Ben Barnett; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  David Gibson; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Nilson Matta’s Brazilian Voyage Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz  Melissa Aldana Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center,  Roberta Gambarini & Friends, Valentine’s Celebration Valen- At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy 60th & Bdwy tine’s Celebration; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

 Freddy Cole: Songs For Lovers; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Monday, February 3 Tuesday, February 11 Center, 60th & Bdwy  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Michael Leonhart Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra - Celebrating 54 Years Of Monday Monday, February 17 Rodney Green Group; Joe Farnsworth Group; Ben Barnett;  Nights; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Mingus Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Jon Elbaz; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Adam Deitch Quartet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Melissa Aldana Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center,  Joe Farnsworth Group; Sean Mason; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

60th & Bdwy

Tuesday, February 4

 Ravi Coltrane Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Wednesday, February 12 “...among human beings  Fred Hersch Trio - Fred Hersch, Piano; John Hébert, Bass;  Oded Tzur Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. jealousy ranks distinctly as a Eric Mcpherson, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra - Celebrating 54 Years Of Monday weakness; a trademark of small minds;  Malik Mclaurine; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Nights; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.  Adam Deitch Quartet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. a property of all small minds, yet a property  Samir Zarif Quartet - Double CD Release; Nasheet Waits which even the smallest is ashamed of;  Russell Hall Presents Concrete Jungle: The Music Of Bob Group; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Marley; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy and when accused of its possession will  Bobby Watson & Horizon Featuring Victor Lewis; Dizzy’s lyingly deny it and resent the Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

accusation as an insult.”

 Wednesday, February 5 Thursday, February 13  Ravi Coltrane Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. -Mark Twain(Continued on page 18)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 17  Freddy Cole: Songs For Lovers; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln  Trio 3 With Special Guest Marilyn Crispell; Jazz Standard, Center, 60th & Bdwy Center, 60th & Bdwy 116 E. 27th St.  Emmet Cohen Trio Featuring Ron Carter - Emmet Cohen, Piano; Ron Carter, Bass; Evan Sherman, Drums; Village Friday, February 28 Tuesday, February 18 Vanguard 178 7th Ave  George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Craig Handy & 2nd Line Smith; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th  Eliot Zigmund Quartet; Sylvia Cuenca Quartet; Mimi Jones  Cecile Mclorin Salvant - Cecile Mclorin Salvant, Vocals; St. And The Lab Session; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Alexa Tarantino, Alto Sax; James Chirillo, Guitar; Sullivan  Emmet Cohen Trio Featuring Ron Carter - Emmet Cohen,  Bill Frisell Quintet W/ Tardy, Akinmusire, Wollesen, & Scherr; Fortner, Piano; Keita Ogawa, Percussion; Village Vanguard Piano; Ron Carter, Bass; Evan Sherman, Drums; Village Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. 178 7th Ave S. Vanguard 178 7th Ave  Marilyn Maye; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &  Winard Harper Group; E.J. Strickland Group; Corey Wallace  Malik Mclaurine; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Bdwy Dubtet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Bill Frisell Trio W/ Kenny Wollesen & Thomas Morgan; Blue  Herlin Riley Presents: Sounds Of Cuba And New Orleans -  Yuna; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Drummer Extraordinaire Herlin Riley Explores The Intersec-  Dave Liebman Expansions; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln  Elio Villafranca & The Jass Syncopators: Life Stories; Dizzy’s tion Of Latin Jazz And The Sounds Of New Orleans, Joined Center, 60th & Bdwy Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy By Cuban Percussion Genius Pedrito Martinez, Prolific Trum- Branford Marsalis Quartet - Multi-Grammy Award–Winning peter Nicholas Payton, And Bassist Russell Hall; The Appel Branford Marsalis Quartet Plays Music From Their Brand New Room, 7pm & 9:30pm; Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Record, The Secrets Between The Shadow And The Soul; Wednesday, February 19 Rose Theater, 8pm; Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Craig Handy & 2nd Line Smith; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Emmet Cohen Trio Featuring Ron Carter - Emmet Cohen, Sunday, February 23 Saturday, February 29 Piano; Ron Carter, Bass; Evan Sherman, Drums; Village  Trio 3 With Special Guest Jason Moran; Jazz Standard, 116  George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Vanguard 178 7th Ave E. 27th St.  Cecile Mclorin Salvant - Cecile Mclorin Salvant, Vocals;  Yuriy Galkin Quartet; Noah Preminger Quintet; Small's, 183  Emmet Cohen Trio Featuring Ron Carter - Emmet Cohen, Alexa Tarantino, Alto Sax; James Chirillo, Guitar; Sullivan W. 10th St. Piano; Ron Carter, Bass; Evan Sherman, Drums; Village Fortner, Piano; Keita Ogawa, Percussion; Village Vanguard  Bill Frisell Trio W/ Kenny Wollesen & Thomas Morgan; Blue Vanguard 178 7th Ave 178 7th Ave S. Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Chris Byars Original Sextet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Winard Harper Group; E.J. Strickland Group; Small's, 183 W.  Elio Villafranca & The Jass Syncopators: Life Stories; Dizzy’s  Bill Frisell Quintet W/ Tardy, Akinmusire, Wollesen, & Scherr; 10th St. Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Yuna; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Marilyn Maye; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &  Dave Liebman Expansions; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Bdwy Center, 60th & Bdwy Thursday, February 20  Branford Marsalis Quartet - Multi-Grammy Award–Winning  Trio 3 With Special Guest Vijay Iyer; Jazz Standard, 116 E. Branford Marsalis Quartet Plays Music From Their Brand 27th St. Monday, February 24 New Record, The Secrets Between The Shadow And The  Emmet Cohen Trio Featuring Ron Carter - Emmet Cohen,  Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Soul; Rose Theater, 8pm; Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Piano; Ron Carter, Bass; Evan Sherman, Drums; Village  Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Bdwy Vanguard 178 7th Ave  Jonathan Barber Group; Jon Elbaz Sean Mason; Small's, 183     Robin Verheyen Quartet; Michael Feinberg Quintet; Small's, W. 10th St. 183 W. 10th St.  Jimmy Cobb & Friends: Javon Jackson, Christian Mcbride,  Bill Frisell Duo W/ Ambrose Akinmusire; Blue Note, 131 W. Benny Green; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. 3rd St.  Juilliard Jazz Ensembles: Buddy Bolden, Jazz Pioneer;  Elio Villafranca & The Jass Syncopators: Life Stories; Dizzy’s Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Tuesday, February 25 Friday, February 21  Miho Hazama And M_Unit; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Herlin Riley Presents: Sounds Of Cuba And New Orleans -  Cecile Mclorin Salvant - Cecile Mclorin Salvant, Vocals; Drummer Extraordinaire Herlin Riley Explores The Intersec- Alexa Tarantino, Alto Sax; James Chirillo, Guitar; Sullivan tion Of Latin Jazz And The Sounds Of New Orleans, Joined Fortner, Piano; Keita Ogawa, Percussion; Village Vanguard By Cuban Percussion Genius Pedrito Martinez, Prolific Trum- 178 7th Ave S. peter Nicholas Payton, And Bassist Russell Hall; The Appel  JD Allen Trio; Small's, 183 W. 10th St. Room, Feb 21–22, 7pm & 9:30pm; Jazz At Lincoln Center,  Jimmy Cobb Jazz By 5 W/ J. Jackson, R. Brecker, E. Gomez, 60th & Bdwy G. Cables; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.  Trio 3 With Special Guest David Virelles; Jazz Standard, 116  Jeffery Miller’s Mardi Gras Party; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lin- E. 27th St. coln Center, 60th & Bdwy  Emmet Cohen Trio Featuring Ron Carter - Emmet Cohen, Piano; Ron Carter, Bass; Evan Sherman, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave Wednesday, February 26  Eliot Zigmund Quartet; Sylvia Cuenca Group; Corey Wallace  Miho Hazama And M_Unit; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Dubtet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Cecile Mclorin Salvant - Cecile Mclorin Salvant, Vocals;  Bill Frisell Duo W/ Ambrose Akinmusire; Blue Note, 131 W. Alexa Tarantino, Alto Sax; James Chirillo, Guitar; Sullivan 3rd St. Fortner, Piano; Keita Ogawa, Percussion; Village Vanguard  Marilyn Maye; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & 178 7th Ave S. Bdwy  Adam Larson Quartet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.  Herlin Riley Presents: Sounds Of Cuba And New Orleans -  Jimmy Cobb Plays Kind Of Blue; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. Drummer Extraordinaire Herlin Riley Explores The Intersec-  Cyro Baptista’s Glosso Lalia; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln tion Of Latin Jazz And The Sounds Of New Orleans, Joined Center, 60th & Bdwy By Cuban Percussion Genius Pedrito Martinez, Prolific Trum-

peter Nicholas Payton, And Bassist Russell Hall; The Appel Jazz Lovers’ Room, 7pm & 9:30pm; Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Thursday, February 27  George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.  Cecile Mclorin Salvant - Cecile Mclorin Salvant, Vocals; Saturday. February 22 Alexa Tarantino, Alto Sax; James Chirillo, Guitar; Sullivan  Herlin Riley Presents: Sounds Of Cuba And New Orleans - Fortner, Piano; Keita Ogawa, Percussion; Village Vanguard

Drummer Extraordinaire Herlin Riley Explores The Intersec- 178 7th Ave S. Lifetime Collection tion Of Latin Jazz And The Sounds Of New Orleans, Joined  Mike Bond Quintet; Pat Bianchi Group; Small's, 183 W. 10th By Cuban Percussion Genius Pedrito Martinez, Prolific Trum- St. peter Nicholas Payton, And Bassist Russell Hall; The Appel  Yuna; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St. JazzMusicDeals.com Room, Feb 21–22, 7pm & 9:30pm; Jazz At Lincoln Center, JazzMusicDeals.com  Cyro Baptista’s Glosso Lalia; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln 60th & Bdwy

18 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 KendrickKendrick ScottScott

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 19 Clubs,Clubs, VenuesVenues && JazzJazz ResourcesResources

5 C Cultural Center, 68 Avenue C. 212-477-5993. www.5ccc.com City Winery, 155 Varick St. Bet. Vandam & Spring St., 212-608- 212-539-8778, joespub.com 55 Bar, 55 Christopher St. 212-929-9883, 55bar.com 0555. citywinery.com John Birks Gillespie Auditorium (see Baha’i Center) 92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128, Cleopatra’s Needle, 2485 Broadway (betw 92nd & 93rd), 212-769- Jules Bistro, 65 St. Marks Pl, 212-477-5560, julesbistro.com 212.415.5500, 92ndsty.org 6969, cleopatrasneedleny.com Kasser Theater, 1 Normal Av, Montclair State College, Montclair, Aaron Davis Hall, City College of NY, Convent Ave., 212-650- Club Bonafide, 212 W. 52nd, 646-918-6189. clubbonafide.com 973-655-4000, montclair.edu 6900, aarondavishall.org C’mon Everybody, 325 Franklin Avenue, Brooklyn. Key Club, 58 Park Pl, Newark, NJ, 973-799-0306, keyclubnj.com Alice Tully Hall, Lincoln Center, Broadway & 65th St., 212-875- www.cmoneverybody.com Kitano Hotel, 66 Park Ave., 212-885-7119. kitano.com 5050, lincolncenter.org/default.asp Copeland’s, 547 W. 145th St. (at Bdwy), 212-234-2356 Knickerbocker Bar & Grill, 33 University Pl., 212-228-8490, Allen Room, Lincoln Center, Time Warner Center, Broadway and Cornelia St Café, 29 Cornelia, 212-989-9319 knickerbockerbarandgrill.com 60th, 5th floor, 212-258-9800, lincolncenter.org Count Basie Theatre, 99 Monmouth St., Red Bank, New Jersey Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St, 212-219-3132, knittingfacto- American Museum of Natural History, 81st St. & Central Park 07701, 732-842-9000, countbasietheatre.org ry.com W., 212-769-5100, amnh.org Crossroads at Garwood, 78 North Ave., Garwood, NJ 07027, Langham Place — Measure, Fifth Avenue, 400 Fifth Avenue Antibes Bistro, 112 Suffolk Street. 212-533-6088. 908-232-5666 New York, NY 10018, 212-613-8738, langhamplacehotels.com www.antibesbistro.com Cutting Room, 19 W. 24th St, 212-691-1900 La Lanterna (Bar Next Door at La Lanterna), 129 MacDougal St, Arthur’s Tavern, 57 Grove St., 212-675-6879 or 917-301-8759, Dizzy’s Club, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor, 212-258-9595, New York, 212-529-5945, lalanternarcaffe.com arthurstavernnyc.com jalc.com Le Cirque Cafe, 151 E. 58th St., lecirque.com Arts Maplewood, P.O. Box 383, Maplewood, NJ 07040; 973-378- DROM, 85 Avenue A, New York, 212-777-1157, dromnyc.com Le Fanfare, 1103 Manhattan Ave., Brooklyn. 347-987-4244. 2133, artsmaplewood.org The Ear Inn, 326 Spring St., NY, 212-226-9060, earinn.com www.lefanfare.com Avery Fischer Hall, Lincoln Center, Columbus Ave. & 65th St., East Village Social, 126 St. Marks Place. 646-755-8662. Le Madeleine, 403 W. 43rd St. (betw 9th & 10th Ave.), New York, 212-875-5030, lincolncenter.org www.evsnyc.com New York, 212-246-2993, lemadeleine.com BAM Café, 30 Lafayette Av, Brooklyn, 718-636-4100, bam.org Edward Hopper House, 82 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 854-358- Les Gallery Clemente Soto Velez, 107 Suffolk St, 212-260-4080 Bar Chord, 1008 Cortelyou Rd., Brooklyn, barchordnyc.com 0774. Lexington Hotel, 511 Lexington Ave. (212) 755-4400. Bar Lunatico, 486 Halsey St., Brooklyn. 718-513-0339. El Museo Del Barrio, 1230 Fifth Ave (at 104th St.), Tel: 212-831- www.lexinghotelnyc.com 222.barlunatico.com 7272, Fax: 212-831-7927, elmuseo.org Live @ The Falcon, 1348 Route 9W, Marlboro, NY 12542, Barbes, 376 9th St. (corner of 6th Ave.), Park Slope, Brooklyn, Esperanto, 145 Avenue C. 212-505-6559. www.esperantony.com Living Room, 154 Ludlow St. 212-533-7235, livingroomny.com 718-965-9177, barbesbrooklyn.com The Falcon, 1348 Rt. 9W, Marlboro, NY., 845) 236-7970, The Local 269, 269 E. Houston St. (corner of Suffolk St.), NYC Barge Music, Fulton Ferry Landing, Brooklyn, 718-624-2083, Fat Cat, 75 Christopher St., 212-675-7369, fatcatjazz.com Makor, 35 W. 67th St., 212-601-1000, makor.org bargemusic.org Fine and Rare, 9 East 37th Street. www.fineandrare.nyc Lounge Zen, 254 DeGraw Ave, Teaneck, NJ, (201) 692-8585, B.B. King’s Blues Bar, 237 W. 42nd St., 212-997-4144, Five Spot, 459 Myrtle Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 718-852-0202, fivespot- lounge-zen.com bbkingblues.com soulfood.com Maureen’s Jazz Cellar, 2 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 845-535- Beacon Theatre, 74th St. & Broadway, 212-496-7070 Flushing Town Hall, 137-35 Northern Blvd., Flushing, NY, 718- 3143. maureensjazzcellar.com Beco Bar, 45 Richardson, Brooklyn. 718-599-1645. 463-7700 x222, flushingtownhall.org Maxwell’s, 1039 Washington St, Hoboken, NJ, 201-653-1703 www.becobar.com For My Sweet, 1103 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY 718-857-1427 McCarter Theater, 91 University Pl., Princeton, 609-258-2787, Bickford Theatre, on Columbia Turnpike @ Normandy Heights Galapagos, 70 N. 6th St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-782-5188, galapago- mccarter.org Road, east of downtown Morristown. 973-744-2600 sartspace.com Merkin Concert Hall, Kaufman Center, 129 W. 67th St., 212-501 Birdland, 315 W. 44th, 212-581-3080 Garage Restaurant and Café, 99 Seventh Ave. (betw 4th and -3330, ekcc.org/merkin.htm Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd, 212-475-8592, bluenotejazz.com Bleecker), 212-645-0600, garagerest.com Metropolitan Room, 34 West 22nd St NY, NY 10012, 212-206- Bourbon St Bar and Grille, 346 W. 46th St, NY, 10036, Garden Café, 4961 Broadway, by 207th St., New York, 10034, 0440 212-245-2030, [email protected] 212-544-9480 Mezzrow, 163 West 10th Street, Basement, New York, NY Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery (at Bleecker), 212-614-0505, Gin Fizz, 308 Lenox Ave, 2nd floor. (212) 289-2220. 10014. 646-476-4346. www.mezzrow.com bowerypoetry.com www.ginfizzharlem.com Minton’s, 206 W 118th St., 212-243-2222, mintonsharlem.com BRIC House, 647 Fulton St. Brooklyn, NY 11217, 718-683-5600, Ginny’s Supper Club, 310 Malcolm X Boulevard Manhattan, NY Mirelle’s, 170 Post Ave., Westbury, NY, 516-338-4933 http://bricartsmedia.org 10027, 212-792-9001, http://redroosterharlem.com/ginnys/ MIST Harlem, 46 W. 116th St., myimagestudios.com Brooklyn Public Library, Grand Army Plaza, 2nd Fl, Brooklyn, Glen Rock Inn, 222 Rock Road, Glen Rock, NJ, (201) 445-2362, Mixed Notes Café, 333 Elmont Rd., Elmont, NY (Queens area), NY, 718-230-2100, brooklynpubliclibrary.org glenrockinn.com 516-328-2233, mixednotescafe.com Café Carlyle, 35 E. 76th St., 212-570-7189, thecarlyle.com GoodRoom, 98 Meserole, Bklyn, 718-349-2373, goodroombk.com. Montauk Club, 25 8th Ave., Brooklyn, 718-638-0800, Café Loup, 105 W. 13th St. (West Village) , between Sixth and Green Growler, 368 S, Riverside Ave., Croton-on-Hudson NY. montaukclub.com Seventh Aves., 212-255-4746 914-862-0961. www.thegreengrowler.com Moscow 57, 168½ Delancey. 212-260-5775. moscow57.com Café St. Bart’s, 109 E. 50th St, 212-888-2664, cafestbarts.com Greenwich Village Bistro, 13 Carmine St., 212-206-9777, green- Muchmore’s, 2 Havemeyer St., Brooklyn. 718-576-3222. nd Cafe Noctambulo, 178 2 Ave. 212-995-0900. cafenoctam- wichvillagebistro.com www.muchmoresnyc.com bulo.com Harlem on 5th, 2150 5th Avenue. 212-234-5600. Mundo, 37-06 36th St., Queens. mundony.com Caffe Vivaldi, 32 Jones St, NYC; caffevivaldi.com www.harlemonfifth.com Museum of the City of New York, 1220 Fifth Ave. (between Candlelight Lounge, 24 Passaic St, Trenton. 609-695-9612. Harlem Tea Room, 1793A Madison Ave., 212-348-3471, har- 103rd & 104th St.), 212-534-1672, mcny.org Carnegie Hall, 7th Av & 57th, 212-247-7800, carnegiehall.org lemtearoom.com Musicians’ Local 802, 332 W. 48th, 718-468-7376 Cassandra’s Jazz, 2256 7th Avenue. 917-435-2250. cassan- Hat City Kitchen, 459 Valley St, Orange. 862-252-9147. National Sawdust, 80 N. 6th St., Brooklyn. 646-779-8455. drasjazz.com hatcitykitchen.com www.nationalsawdust.org Chico’s House Of Jazz, In Shoppes at the Arcade, 631 Lake Ave., Havana Central West End, 2911 Broadway/114th St), NYC, Newark Museum, 49 Washington St, Newark, New Jersey 07102- Asbury Park, 732-774-5299 212-662-8830, havanacentral.com 3176, 973-596-6550, newarkmuseum.org Highline Ballroom, 431 West 16th St (between 9th & 10th Ave. New Jersey Performing Arts Center, 1 Center St., Newark, NJ, highlineballroom.com, 212-414-4314. 07102, 973-642-8989, njpac.org Hopewell Valley Bistro, 15 East Broad St, Hopewell, NJ 08525, New Leaf Restaurant, 1 Margaret Corbin Dr., Ft. Tryon Park. 212- 609-466-9889, hopewellvalleybistro.com 568-5323. newleafrestaurant.com Hudson Room, 27 S. Division St., Peekskill NY. 914-788-FOOD. New School Performance Space, 55 W. 13th St., 5th Floor (betw hudsonroom.com 5th & 6th Ave.), 212-229-5896, newschool.edu. Hyatt New Brunswick, 2 Albany St., New Brunswick, NJ New School University-Tishman Auditorium, 66 W. 12th St., 1st “A system of morality IBeam Music Studio, 168 7th St., Brooklyn, ibeambrooklyn.com Floor, Room 106, 212-229-5488, newschool.edu INC American Bar & Kitchen, 302 George St., New Brunswick New York City Baha’i Center, 53 E. 11th St. (betw Broadway & which is based on relative NJ. (732) 640-0553. www.increstaurant.com University), 212-222-5159, bahainyc.org emotional values is a mere Iridium, 1650 Broadway, 212-582-2121, iridiumjazzclub.com North Square Lounge, 103 Waverly Pl. (at MacDougal St.), Jazz 966, 966 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-638-6910 212-254-1200, northsquarejazz.com illusion, a thoroughly vulgar Jazz at Lincoln Center, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org Oak Room at The Algonquin Hotel, 59 W. 44th St. (betw 5th and conception which has nothing  Frederick P. Rose Hall, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor 6th Ave.), 212-840-6800, thealgonquin.net  Dizzy’s Club Coca-Cola, Reservations: 212-258-9595 Oceana Restaurant, 120 West 49th St, New York, NY 10020 sound in it and nothing true.”  Rose Theater, Tickets: 212-721-6500, The Allen Room, Tickets: 212-759-5941, oceanarestaurant.com 212-721-6500 Orchid, 765 Sixth Ave. (betw 25th & 26th St.), 212-206-9928 Jazz Gallery, 1160 Bdwy, (212) 242-1063, jazzgallery.org The Owl, 497 Rogers Ave, Bklyn. 718-774-0042. www.theowl.nyc The Jazz Spot, 375 Kosciuszko St. (enter at 179 Marcus Garvey Palazzo Restaurant, 11 South Fullerton Avenue, Montclair. 973- Blvd.), Brooklyn, NY, 718-453-7825, thejazz.8m.com 746-6778. palazzonj.com Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St., 212-576-2232, jazzstandard.net Priory Jazz Club: 223 W Market, Newark, 07103, 973-639-7885 — Socrates — Anton Chekhov Joe’s Pub at the Public Theater, 425 Lafayette St & Astor Pl., Proper Café, 217-01 Linden Blvd., Queens, 718-341-2233

20 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 Prospect Park Bandshell, 9th St. & Prospect Park W., Brooklyn, Zankel Hall, 881 7th Ave, New York, 212-247-7800 NY, 718-768-0855 Zinc Bar, 82 West 3rd St.

Prospect Wine Bar & Bistro, 16 Prospect St. Westfield, NJ, RECORD STORES 908-232-7320, 16prospect.com, cjayrecords.com Academy Records, 12 W. 18th St., New York, NY 10011, 212-242 “It is curious that physical courage Red Eye Grill, 890 7th Av (56th), 212-541-9000, redeyegrill.com -3000, http://academy-records.com should be so common in the world Ridgefield Playhouse, 80 East Ridge, parallel to Main St., Downtown Music Gallery, 13 Monroe St, New York, NY 10002, and moral courage so rare.” Ridgefield, CT; ridgefieldplayhouse.org, 203-438-5795 (212) 473-0043, downtownmusicgallery.com Rockwood Music Hall, 196 Allen St, 212-477-4155 Jazz Record Center, 236 W. 26th St., Room 804, Rose Center (American Museum of Natural History), 81st St. 212-675-4480, jazzrecordcenter.com (Central Park W. & Columbus), 212-769-5100, amnh.org/rose MUSIC STORES — Mark Twain Rose Hall, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org Roberto’s Woodwind & Brass, 149 West 46th St. NY, NY 10036, Rosendale Café, 434 Main St., PO Box 436, Rosendale, NY 12472, 646-366-0240, robertoswoodwind.com Queens College — Copland School of Music, City University of 845-658-9048, rosendalecafe.com Sam Ash, 333 W 34th St, New York, NY 10001 NY, Flushing, 718-997-3800 Rubin Museum of Art - “Harlem in the Himalayas”, 150 W. 17th Phone: (212) 719-2299 samash.com Rutgers Univ. at New Brunswick, Jazz Studies, Douglass Cam- St. 212-620-5000. rmanyc.org Sadowsky Guitars Ltd, 2107 41st Avenue 4th Floor, Long Island pus, PO Box 270, New Brunswick, NJ, 908-932-9302 Rustik, 471 DeKalb Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 347-406-9700, City, NY 11101, 718-433-1990. sadowsky.com Rutgers University Institute of Jazz Studies, 185 University Avenue, Newark NJ 07102, 973-353-5595 rustikrestaurant.com Steve Maxwell Vintage Drums, 723 7th Ave, 3rd Floor, New newarkrutgers.edu/IJS/index1.html St. Mark’s Church, 131 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.), 212-674-6377 York, NY 10019, 212-730-8138, maxwelldrums.com SUNY Purchase, 735 Anderson Hill, Purchase, 914-251-6300 St. Nick’s Pub, 773 St. Nicholas Av (at 149th), 212-283-9728 SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, CONSERVATORIES Swing University (see Jazz At Lincoln Center, under Venues) St. Peter’s Church, 619 Lexington (at 54th), 212-935-2200, 92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128 William Paterson University Jazz Studies Program, 300 Pompton saintpeters.org 212.415.5500; 92ndsty.org Rd, Wayne, NJ, 973-720-2320 Sasa’s Lounge, 924 Columbus Ave, Between 105th & 106th St. Brooklyn-Queens Conservatory of Music, 42-76 Main St., RADIO NY, NY 10025, 212-865-5159, sasasloungenyc.yolasite.com Flushing, NY, Tel: 718-461-8910, Fax: 718-886-2450 WBGO 88.3 FM, 54 Park Pl, Newark, NJ 07102, Tel: 973-624- Brooklyn Conservatory of Music, 58 Seventh Ave., Brooklyn, Savoy Grill, 60 Park Place, Newark, NJ 07102, 973-286-1700 8880, Fax: 973-824-8888, wbgo.org NY, 718-622-3300, brooklynconservatory.com WCWP, LIU/C.W. Post Campus Schomburg Center, 515 Malcolm X Blvd., 212-491-2200, City College of NY-Jazz Program, 212-650-5411, nypl.org/research/sc/sc.html WFDU, http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/index2.html Drummers Collective, 541 6th Ave, New York, NY 10011, WKCR 89.9, Columbia University, 2920 Broadway Shanghai Jazz, 24 Main St., Madison, NJ, 973-822-2899, shang- 212-741-0091, thecoll.com Mailcode 2612, NY 10027, 212-854-9920, columbia.edu/cu/wkcr haijazz.com Five Towns College, 305 N. Service, 516-424-7000, x Hills, NY ADDITIONAL JAZZ RESOURCES ShapeShifter Lab, 18 Whitwell Pl, Brooklyn, NY 11215 Greenwich House Music School, 46 Barrow St., Tel: 212-242- Big Apple Jazz, bigapplejazz.com, 718-606-8442, gor- shapeshifterlab.com 4770, Fax: 212-366-9621, greenwichhouse.org [email protected] Showman’s, 375 W. 125th St., 212-864-8941 Juilliard School of Music, 60 Lincoln Ctr, 212-799-5000 Louis Armstrong House, 34-56 107th St, Corona, NY 11368, Sidewalk Café, 94 Ave. A, 212-473-7373 LaGuardia Community College/CUNI, 31-10 Thomson Ave., 718-997-3670, satchmo.net Sista’s Place, 456 Nostrand, Bklyn, 718-398-1766, sistasplace.org Long Island City, 718-482-5151 Institute of Jazz Studies, John Cotton Dana Library, Rutgers- Lincoln Center — Jazz At Lincoln Center, 140 W. 65th St., Skippers Plane St Pub, 304 University Ave. Newark NJ, 973-733- Univ, 185 University Av, Newark, NJ, 07102, 973-353-5595 10023, 212-258-9816, 212-258-9900 Jazzmobile, Inc., jazzmobile.org 9300, skippersplaneStpub.com Long Island University — Brooklyn Campus, Dept. of Music, Smalls Jazz Club, 183 W. 10th St. (at 7th Ave.), 212-929-7565, Jazz Museum in Harlem, 104 E. 126th St., 212-348-8300, University Plaza, Brooklyn, 718-488-1051, 718-488-1372 jazzmuseuminharlem.org SmallsJazzClub.com Manhattan School of Music, 120 Claremont Ave., 10027, Jazz Foundation of America, 322 W. 48th St. 10036, Smith’s Bar, 701 8th Ave, New York, 212-246-3268 212-749-2805, 2802, 212-749-3025 212-245-3999, jazzfoundation.org Sofia’s Restaurant - Club Cache’ [downstairs], Edison Hotel, NJ City Univ, 2039 Kennedy Blvd., Jersey City, 888-441-6528 New Jersey Jazz Society, 1-800-303-NJJS, njjs.org 221 W. 46th St. (between Broadway & 8th Ave), 212-719-5799 New School, 55 W. 13th St., 212-229-5896, 212-229-8936 New York Blues & Jazz Society, NYBluesandJazz.org South Gate Restaurant & Bar, 154 Central Park South, 212-484- NY University, 35 West 4th St. Rm #777, 212-998-5446 Rubin Museum, 150 W. 17th St, New York, NY, 5120, 154southgate.com NY Jazz Academy, 718-426-0633 NYJazzAcademy.com 212-620-5000 ex 344, rmanyc.org. Princeton University-Dept. of Music, Woolworth Center Musical South Orange Performing Arts Center, One SOPAC Studies, Princeton, NJ, 609-258-4241, 609-258-6793 Way, South Orange, NJ 07079, sopacnow.org, 973-313-2787    Spectrum, 2nd floor, 121 Ludlow St. Spoken Words Café, 266 4th Av, Brooklyn, 718-596-3923 Stanley H. Kaplan Penthouse, 165 W. 65th St., 10th Floor, 212-721-6500, lincolncenter.org The Stone, Ave. C & 2nd St., thestonenyc.com th Strand Bistro, 33 W. 37 St. 212-584-4000 SubCulture, 45 Bleecker St., subculturenewyork.com PAY ONLY FOR Sugar Bar, 254 W. 72nd St, 212-579-0222, sugarbarnyc.com Swing 46, 349 W. 46th St.(betw 8th & 9th Ave.), 212-262-9554, swing46.com Symphony Space, 2537 Broadway, Tel: 212-864-1414, Fax: 212- 932-3228, symphonyspace.org Tea Lounge, 837 Union St. (betw 6th & 7th Ave), Park Slope, Broooklyn, 718-789-2762, tealoungeNY.com Terra Blues, 149 Bleecker St. (betw Thompson & LaGuardia), RESULTS 212-777-7776, terrablues.com Threes Brewing, 333 Douglass St., Brooklyn. 718-522-2110. www.threesbrewing.com Tito Puente’s Restaurant and Cabaret, 64 City Island Avenue, City Island, Bronx, 718-885-3200, titopuentesrestaurant.com Tomi Jazz, 239 E. 53rd St., 646-497-1254, tomijazz.com Tonic, 107 Norfolk St. (betw Delancey & Rivington), Tel: 212-358- 7501, Fax: 212-358-1237, tonicnyc.com Town Hall, 123 W. 43rd St., 212-997-1003 PUBLICITY! Triad Theater, 158 W. 72nd St. (betw Broadway & Columbus Ave.), 212-362-2590, triadnyc.com Tribeca Performing Arts Center, 199 Chambers St, 10007, [email protected], tribecapac.org Trumpets, 6 Depot Square, Montclair, NJ, 973-744-2600, Get Hundreds Of Media Placements — trumpetsjazz.com Turning Point Cafe, 468 Piermont Ave. Piermont, N.Y. 10968 ONLINE — Major Network Media & Authority Sites & (845) 359-1089, http://turningpointcafe.com Urbo, 11 Times Square. 212-542-8950. urbonyc.com OFFLINE — Distribution To 1000’s of Print & Broadcast Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S., 212-255-4037 Vision Festival, 212-696-6681, [email protected], Networks To Promote Your Music, Products & Watchung Arts Center, 18 Stirling Rd, Watchung, NJ 07069, Performances In As Little As 24 Hours To Generate 908-753-0190, watchungarts.org Watercolor Café, 2094 Boston Post Road, Larchmont, NY 10538, Traffic, Sales & Expanded Media Coverage! 914-834-2213, watercolorcafe.net Weill Recital Hall, Carnegie Hall, 57th & 7th Ave, 212-247-7800 Williamsburg Music Center, 367 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, NY www.PressToRelease.com | MusicPressReleaseDistribution.com | 215-600-1733 11211, (718) 384-1654 wmcjazz.org

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 21 piano tuner, and he played apolis, I graduated from high school there in sax. I remember him playing 71, it was my first cosmopolitan experience. INTERVIEWINTERVIEW his sax at night after work. There was a good jazz scene there, from ‘65- He’d stand in the corner, to ‘71. I met Bobby Lyle, saw Buddy Rich, Clark hear the sounds come back to Terry—there was a scene there, you know? It him off the wall. My mom was also more interracial because of the Bobby Watson would play spirituals that Swedes and Germans there, so my school was would literally make me cry. racially balanced. Blakey, Kansas City and More My mom would ask, “what’s wrong with you?” I was just JI: When did your exposure to jazz first hap- being moved by the music, pen, and how? Interview by Wayne Goins, that was all. All six of my brothers played Photo by Eric Nemeyer instruments, but they all stopped, none of them BW: In my eleventh grade year, my history were improvisers. We had a family band at teacher, for some reason, he changed Ameri- It was a day of big losses in the sports one time, we all played in the church. I played can history to jazz history. This is when I dis- world. The Cubs upset Yankees pitcher Roger piano in the church where my grandfather was covered Charlie Parker. Up to that point, all I Clemens by denying him his 500th win. Em- the bishop. I always had a good ear, and the had heard was Gene Ammons. One day my pire Maker upset Funny Cide at the Belmont first song I learned was “Green Onions,” re- parents bought me one of those little suitcase Stakes. But in my world, everything was com- member that? stereos with the arm and needle inside, you ing up roses, because I had, for two straight know what I’m talking about? days, an all-access pass to veteran saxophonist JI: Sure, by Booker T! Bobby Watson and his triumphant return to JI: Yeah, I remember those, I always wanted Kansas City, after a whirlwind journey with BW: Yeah, man. I learned the bass line and one as a kid. the Jazz Messengers, the 29th Street Saxo- the chord changes (goes over to the piano and phone Quartet, the Mingus Big Band, his own plunks out the funky groove.) I played “Battle BW: Yeah, I had one. The only contact I had group, Horizon, and other major avenues yet Hymn of the Republic” as my first perfor- before this was the Tonight Show on televi- untold. He met me at my hotel suite in down- mance, on clarinet in my grandfather’s church. sion, with Doc, Ernie, Snooky Young, and all town Kansas City, Missouri for what turned I’d also try to take stuff off the television. I those cats. I used to like to pad the parts when I was in band, and my band director would always warn me to stop doing that. When my “In my eleventh grade year, my history history teacher taught me the historical pro- gression of jazz, I realized I wanted to be a teacher, for some reason, he changed jazz musician. When I started listening to Bird, he had an aura of happiness, even those tunes where he was playing a lot of blues. American history to jazz history. This is KANSAS CITY when I discovered Charlie Parker. Up to JI: So when did you make it back to the Kan- that point, all I had heard was Gene Am- sas City scene?

BW: We moved back to KC. after ’71 Then I mons. One day my parents bought me did two years of junior college, and I met Dr, Clifton Williams, the head of composition at one of those little suitcase stereos with the University of Miami.

the arm and needle inside…” JI: So, were you already developing some jazz chops by then? out to be an extensive dialogue that was every started playing clarinet in fifth grade in Bon- bit as intriguing, informative, stimulating, inner Springs Elementary School, Carl Weber BW: There was a chain of events that oc- tense, and thoroughly enjoyable as the man was the band director at the time. curred, when I got back to KC. Two people— himself. Watson has already made his mark in guitarists Monte Muza and Pat Metheny the history of jazz, and the saxophone fraterni- JI: How much clarinet are you playing these helped me quite a bit. I moved to KC and had ty warmly embraces the body of work left for days? the jazz bug, but I didn’t know any tunes, and future generations. Unbelievably, Bobby Wat- there was no Real Book to speak of, or even son is in the prime of his career. BW: Well I’m coming back on it, I have a lot Jamey Aebersold to speak of. of muscle memory. BEGINNINGS JI: Hey, that’s right. I can’t even image that JI: When and how did you wind up in Minne- nowadays. JI: How and when did you get into music? apolis? BW: Yeah, things were different then. So I BW: I was born in Lawrence, Kansas in ’53, BW: Well, Dad was moving up in the aviation met Pat Metheny over at the Turner House. At to Robert Watson, Sr. and my mom, Lahoma field. He was the first black chief flight in- that time, the NEA gave the Turner House Jewel Watson. Both my parents were musical. spector—basically the air police—in FAA grants, and they received major money from My dad was an instrument repairman and a history. In seventh grade we moved to Minne- (Continued on page 24)

22 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880

BobbyBobby WatsonWatson

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 23 fronting. I started to try to go up and down ing, I’m thinking, if I’m gonna go down there, Bobby Watson diatonically to figure out how to deal with I want to be a composer and get a degree in these tunes. Then I met Monte Muza, who was music theory and composition—I want to (Continued from page 22) a very big fan and supported Pat Metheny. Pat learn how to write. My passion for writing has was a local phenom, still seventeen at the time. always been an equal to my passion for impro- Urban Renewal, which is why I named my He hadn’t left town and broken through yet, vising and playing. album that title, it was a remembrance from but it was coming. I spent the night at Pat’s that time when there was a lot of music going house a few times, and we’d just play music. JI: I didn’t know that you had the writing bug on in the inner city. That’s where I got my first He would always talk about his big brother so early. up close and personal experience with Can- Mike, who was in the Army at the time. Mike nonball Adderley, Clarke Terry, Max Roach, was the one who turned Pat on to Miles and BW: Oh, man, yeah. Williams always talked Ernie Wilkins. Those guys came through other cats. Monte Muza told me when he came about composing as a craft. He would say, I’m town. Me and my friend would go out and to my house, “Look Bobby, it’s simple; if you going to show you the craaaft. I used to pick them up at the airport, and I was the unof- wanna be a monster, you gotta know a thou- LOVE the way he said that word…. ficial straw boss. Pat had a gig at the Ramada sand tunes, and sound good on all of em.” He Inn out on I-70 with Gary Sivils, and Paul taught me tunes like “Autumn Leaves.” Monte JI: So, you think of yourself more of a com- Smith. I would drive out there in my 55 was about thirty-something at the time, I was poser than a sax player? Chevy, and I would sit in. nineteen, twenty, twenty-one. He spent a lot of time with me, told me I had a good ear. Mean- BW: I dunno…Well, I used Wayne Shorter as JI: What it was like playing with those veteran while, Pat Metheny had graduated early be- my model, or Charlie Parker… guys like Sivils and Smith? cause he was an accelerated student. JI: Yes, but Bird didn’t compose in the tradi- BW: I would wait for my turn and they would JI: So when did the Miami thing happen? tional sense. I mean, he’s arranging horns and call Freddie Hubbard;s Straight Life (sings the creating new melodies over standard chang- melody). It’s just two chords you know? We’d BW: Well, I was getting ready to transfer es—that’s not exactly what you were setting play that and a bunch of other vamp tunes. But from Kansas City Community College to out to do, is it?

BW: That’s true…Wayne was really more my “That’s where I got my first up close prototype. Dr. Williams said to me, “what you want to do is, you get your first jobs as an instrumentalist.” He told me that’s how you and personal experience with Cannon- break in as a composer is to have your material ready and when the group breaks fifteen ball Adderley, Clarke Terry, Max Roach, minutes, a half hour early, you pass your music out to the players and ask them to screen it for a few minutes, so you can hear your work, Ernie Wilkins. Those guys came and so others can hear it too. So I was always wanting to play, but I had this other side of through town. Me and my friend would me. Williams always said, “I don’t want you to be a good jazz composer: I want you to be a go out and pick them up at the airport, good composer. He also was the first to tip me to the fact that most writers, they don’t just hear their main instrument—they mostly hear and I was the unofficial straw boss.” an outside rhythm section in their heads (sings me a melody, and sings riffs, simulating drums it was frustrating, because every time I’d be North Texas State, but I ran into Pat and he and bass.) See, the melody is weak, it needs there, I would hear them playing all of these said, “man, you gotta come out to Miami— the rhythm section to flesh it all out. There are hip standards, but when it came to my turn to they got the beach scene out there, I’m doing certain exceptions, such as the tune “Maiden sit in, they’d play all of the easier tunes. It was cruise ships, I’m doing shows. Jerry Coker’s Voyage.” But “Maiden Voyage” has such a true that I didn’t know the harder tunes, but I out there, Dan Haerle, and David Baker.” You strong melody it holds it all together in its could hear it. Every time, they’d call me up on know, back then they called it the ‘ABC’s of economy. (Sings opening phrase, “ba da these same two tunes. After about 3 months, I jazz’—Aebersold, Baker and Coker; you had daaaahh...”) That melodic note that holds started to get a little bit insulted, I was like, to have that! across that rhythmic groove, it’s the glue that why don’t you all teach me some of those holds the chord sequence together underneath tunes? JI: I never heard that one before! it. I wanted to be a composer and a performer. When I was with Dr. Williams, I wasn’t even JI: I recently discovered that Pat had some- BW: Yeah, Coker started the Miami program. hip to Wayne Shorter. Here I was thinking I thing to do with your musical growth. So the sequence was this: Pat first put the bug was doing something unique, and I wasn’t, I in my ear; then, there was a guy named Roger had so much to learn. BW: Yeah, Pat Metheny taught me “Green Jones, who was the prized student of Dr. Clif- Dolphin Street”, and “Stella by Starlight”. I ton Williams, who also told me about Miami, MIAMI was already writing charts, so I could write he was there. I talked to Dr. Williams who told and transcribe things. I was taking stuff off the me that he would try to get me some money to JI: Tell me more about who was there when records, like Buddy Rich’s Channel One Suite come down and study composition with him. you went to Miami; I know Jaco was there… and West Side Story for a stage band that I was So even though Pat talked to me about play-

24 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 playing like Desmond!! (hearty laughter from Phyllis Hyman had her group of guys with her Harold Mabern both.) So I started getting into the long tones, that she’d taken from Miami, and they broke and my sound totally changed in early ‘76. through in New York. Then we hear David BW: I met a lot of cats who were more ad- Jaco went to New York, made that first record. Sanborn hired Phyllis’ band right out from vanced than me. Jaco was there, Hiram Bull- He was the first one to break out. Bright Size under her. There was a place called Mikell’s ock on guitar, Cliff Carter, Bruce Hornsby, the Life also broke out around that time, Pat was right off of 97th & Columbus, and that was a group called the Dregs, eventually Dixie always on the fast track. Back in the practice hot spot—the band Stuff used to play there. Dregs, they were the University of Miami room, Pat told me, “in five years, I’ll be a Monte Alexander’s brother, Larry, got a big Rock Ensemble No. 1. Danny Gottlieb, Mark star.” contract with Polydor, and so I’m thinking, if Colby, Ira Sullivan would always drop in un- they can make it, why not me? So, Curtis Lun- announced. Phyllis Hyman would come and JI: He said that? That doesn’t sound like Pat dy did an exploratory trip to Philadelphia, and do masterclasses. The university always Metheny! He such a humble cat… he came back and said, “if New York is any- brought in the pros. I started doing shows in thing like Philly, it’s hip!!” So on August 24th, town. Pat was always giving masterclasses on BW: Oh, he said it real nicely!! (we both Bill Morgenstern picked me up at the airport Fridays. He started there as a student, but laugh.) I realized that what it was, it was just and took me straight to Gerde’s Folk City… wound up teaching there as a faculty member

immediately. He was studying with Joe Dio- rio, a fantastic guitarist. “‘what you want to do is, you get your first jobs

JI: Miami was a pretty good breeding ground as an instrumentalist.’ He told me that’s how for the pros, right? you break in as a composer ... have your BW: Buddy Rich was pulling cats out of Mi- ami, Woody Herman was pulling people out of material ready and when the group breaks the band to play with him. The thing was, those guys would return from the road and fifteen minutes, a half hour early, you pass your come back to play in the Miami university bands. That’s why it was always impossible to music out to the players and ask them to screen get in those bands—because they were all pro bands!! They would give them full scholar- it for a few minutes, so you can hear your work, ships and everything, and they were good students, although they were pros. and so others can hear it... So I was always

JI: So who did you play with regularly when wanting to play, but I had this other side of me.” you got there? Jaco? Pat? that he was programming his mind to achieve BW: When I got there, I didn’t really have a his goals. That reminds me, when we were on JI: Isn’t that where Bob Dylan was first dis- sound, but my metamorphosis happened to- the bus on the Art Blakey’s big band tour, I covered? ward the end of my stay. I was there from ‘73 thought it was a little arrogant that Wynton to ‘76, I finished up my Bachelors and started told me, “one day, you’re gonna have two BW: Yes, same place. So they had a jam ses- my Masters. Over half of Bruce Hornsby’s musicians; and one musician will say to the sion hosted by Albert Dailey, great piano play- band was there. I was nothing when I got other, well, what do you think about so-ander. That day I met Billy Hart, Rufus Reid, and there, and wasn’t considered a major player, so; and the other musician will say, well, I it was his first day in New York. Albert says so I didn’t play with Jaco and the heavier cats dunno;, what does Wynton Marsalis think? to me, “what do you wanna play?” I said, “I’ll at the time. I was still putting my stuff togeth- Remember April.” So I played, and the only er. I met Curtis Lundy who only played elec- JI: Yikes! Where do you put yourself in re- way I knew that I had something going on was tric at the time. Me and Curtis rented a house gard to that kind of “projecting” or, to put it that people came up to me and said, ‘so together and put a band together, and we kindly, “positive” thinking? who’re you with?’ They didn’t know who I played a place called Sy’s Rivergate, and was, but they just knew I was with some- that’s when I got my first six-night a week gig BW: I knew that I was going to pay my dues body!! Now, understand something: New on the beach, and that did more for me than all so that whenever I earned my reputation, peo- York is very slim in compliments, so that’s those years of practicing. This was in summer ple would say, “you deserved it.” I took the your only gauge. So that was my cue. So I of ‘75. The trumpet player, Caesar Ealey used long way home. That was my vision, the slow- started sitting in with Rashaan Roland Kirk at to get on me about playing long tones. I used er route, I didn’t wanna to peak too soon. Alt- the Vanguard on Sunday. You don’t just show to play real soft. People used to say that I hough Pat handled it quite well, I saw what upon Sunday and ask to sit in at the Vanguard. played a lot like Paul Desmond…. happened to Jaco—I even saw guys peak in What you do is, if you were nice, you’d show high school, and they never made it past there! up on Thursday. The night that you don’t want JI: With that light, airy tone? to go out to a club and sit in is on Tuesday START SPREADING THE NEWS… night, which is opening night; big money night BW: Uh-huh… for main attractions. Critics are there to review JI: After your degree where did you go? the shows. Mondays are always reserved for JI: You’re totally on the East coast with a Thad Jones and Mel Lewis Big Band. So you West coast sound! BW: I moved to New York. The buzz came have Wednesdays and Thursdays. Stay away back to Miami about the Jaco album, and we from Fridays and Saturdays, because those are BW: I’m hearing Cannonball in my head, and all ran out and bought it. It was fantastic. Also, (Continued on page 26)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 25 be hanging out doing the street scene, and I’d go, “yeah, I play flute.” Then I get in the stu- Bobby Watson come back late at night and say, “Hey, I just dio, and this stuff is way up there in the strato- met George Coleman,” or “I just played with sphere. And I get up there, and get it the best (Continued from page 25) Billy Higgins,” or “Billy Hart just dropped me that I can, and I see them huddling, talking in off in front of the house!” Harold Mabern, the booth, bzz, bzzz, bzzz. “Yeah, try it money nights–tourists, you know. So you only George Adams, Clifford Jordan—I was sitting again…” So we lay it down again, they play it go on Thursdays to set up the Sunday. So I in everywhere I could, and met all these peo- back, they say, “yeah, ok, thanks man.” They went to the Bottom Line, met some other people. Roland Prince, Victor Sproles, Walter pay me right away, and in cash too. You ple also at the Village Gate. I was living in Davis, Jr.—they were all encouraging me in know, that was happening a lot in those days, transient hotels. the early years of New York. And there was getting paid in cash. But that’s another story one other one that encouraged me that a lot of for another time. So anyway, once I left the JI: What’s that? people don’t realize played a very important studio, they went right out and erased the part of my life, and that was Cecil Taylor. track, immediately I’m sure. So my point is, to BW: Little temporary crash pads. They were be a great studio musician, you gotta have a all up and down Broadway—they’re all con- JI: I didn’t know that. selfless demeanor—not one ounce of ego, take dos now. Back then, though, they were all run a lotta shit in regard to what you’re willing to by Vietnamese, and you paid by the week. The BW: Yeah, I met him in the Village. Cecil put up with. “Can you do it like so-and so?” guitarist Hiram Bullock had the official crash hung out a lot, and listened to the young cats So I realize that I gotta make choices now, pad for all of the people who made the pil- all the time. One of his favorite piano players very quickly in my first few months in New grimage from Miami—Phyllis Hyman’s band, was John Hicks—he calls him “Hickey-Poo.” York. myself, others. Will Lee, whose dad was the Taylor would always say (mimics in a grunt, Dean from Miami, wound up there, too. What raspy voice), “ I hear what you’re doing. I’m GOTTA MEET THE BU finally happened was, Mark Egan, Danny hearing you; you remind me of Jimmy Ly- Gottlieb, we were all neighbors. Around 24th ons!” JI: Alright, at what point does Blakey enter Street between 9th and 10th is where I lived, your life? and — [“We lived there!” interjects Bobby’s JI: You’re talking about two different wife Pam from the room next door.] Yeah, I worlds—your life and Hiram’s life. BW: I’m hanging out with the guys, and I mean we lived there. Pam was there with me come home one night and I tell them, “hey, I through all of this. (Pam nods and smiles ap- BW: These are two different gigs—they were just met this guy, Art Blakey!! So then I hear, provingly. I’m laughing at Bobby now…) in and out of the road tours with Carly Simon “Oh! Art Blakey?! His stuff ain’t happenin’ no and James Taylor, session work with Sanborn. more!!” I mean, Art Blakey, at that point, in JI: So, you’re hanging out at night…. Some of them were doing Broadway, other 1976, ’77, Nobody was checking him out at stuff. I didn’t realize at the time, but I had to all. At that time they were playing “Along Came Betty,” “Blues March,” “Moanin,” “Night in Tunisia,” and some Walter Davis tunes, even though Walter Davis wasn’t in the “So I played, and the only way I knew band. It was Mickey Tucker on piano. But once a Jazz Messenger, always a Jazz Messen- that I had something going on was ger. So Art would call on Walter, ‘cause Wal- ter’s a great composer. He wrote tunes like that people came up to me and said, “Backgammon” “Jody,” “Uranus”, “Ronnie Is A Dynamite Lady”. He’d always write a tune for his girlfriend, then when they broke up ‘so who’re you with?’ They didn’t he’d change the title [we both laugh.] So anyway, I run into one of the regular fixtures on know who I was, but they just knew the scene, Joe Kingston. He must be ninety- something now. He knew everybody in New York. He said, “you gotta hook up with Art I was with somebody!!” Blakey.”

BW: We were crashing at Hiram’s pad, and choose between these two worlds. They were JI: Were you familiar with Blakey’s music at we were going down to Boomers down at the totally different. In the studio world, you have the time? Village and I’d come back to sleep at Hiram’s to have a whole different horn. You see, my place. But Hiram’s house was a fusion house: horn was too noisy. It sounded good, but when BW: Oh sure. When I was in Miami, I used to James Taylor would drop by, Will Lee, Don you’re clicking the keys…it’s a whole other wake up every morning and put on “Free For Grolnick, David Sanborn—all these cats criteria. These guys don’t—or can’t—have any All;” that’s what got my day started every day. would be in there, and they’d have jam ses- pride or ego. Their ego is off the shelf. They But I didn’t realize at the time what a talent sions downstairs in the basement. The studio know they have certain deficiencies, and they scout he was, and how much he loved young scene was still vibrant, so these guys would just go, “fatten me up.” They know exactly people. Kingston said, “you gotta meet the wake up and do commercials, film sessions, what mic or e.q. they need to make them Bu.” [Blakey’s Muslim name was “Buhaina”.] cutting album sides with Phil Ramone. Hiram sound like they bomb. They didn’t care if they Kingston hooked me up with Curtis Fuller, was into the studio scene because he was one didn’t have it in real life; that doesn’t matter who was with Count Basie at the time. When of the rare guitarists who could read. We’d be so much in the studio. So I started to see that the Basie band was off, they’d go to Sto- playing tunes and they threw me a couple of that wasn’t really for me. I did this thing with ryville. So I meet Fuller, and he says, “you bones for the studio scene. Meanwhile, I’d still Phil Ramone, and he asked, “you play flute?” I remind me of Trane. You need to meet the

26 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 to Japan, and I’m learning “Pensativa”, time to go. Art wouldn’t give you a schedule. Bobby Watson “Children of the Night”, “Ugetsu”, everything He’d just keep you in a box. He’d keep you in so that no matter what he calls I’m ready, the dark. You didn’t know when you were Bu.” Meanwhile, Joe goes and brings Art right? So meanwhile, I’m going around New working. Therefore you couldn’t book other down to Storyville for his birthday. Atsuko, York, and everybody’s asking me, “who’re gigs during you’re down time. So he had you. his Japanese wife, was with him. Joe says, you with?” So now I say, “I’m with Art Bla- So those guys got fed up and left. So I got a “I’m gonna buy you a bottle of champagne at key & the Jazz Messengers!!” Some of the telex from Jack Whittemore that said, “No the table. It’s your birthday and I want you to comments ranged from “Don’t hold your ticket for Bobby Watson.” So I went back hear this new kid.” So I’m up there playing breath.” Another one said, “Well, Art asked home to Kansas City. I still had faith that I with Cutis Fuller, Chris Woods, and Jimmy me to join him in 1965, and I’m still waiting!” was going to be in the band. Forrest, having a good time. So the next thing Then another one said, “Art Blakey’s a patho- I know, Art pushes Butch Miles off the drums. logical liar!” Another one was—and this came JI: When did it all come together? When he wants to sit in, Art grabs the ride from a drummer—“How can Art Blakey af- cymbal stick, and he rides while Butch is still ford a sextet, when he can barely afford a BW: On the thirteenth of January I get a call. playing. Then Butch slides over, and Art shifts quintet?” Another one said, “Art Blakey’s It’s Art Blakey. He says, “There’s a prepaid in without missing a beat. So he settles in, and gonna pay you—in drugs!!” Nothing—no con- ticket for you at the airport. Rehearsal’s to- suddenly I’m hearing something different be- gratulations. Remember I told you—in New morrow at 3:30 at Art Jr.’s loft. Let me speak hind me. I look around and it’s him, and I go, York, you don’t get a congratulations, or “you to your mom.” He spoke to both my parents, “oh, my God!” So, after I play he comes off, sound good,” or “I’m happy for you.” The guaranteed them that he’d look after me. So I grabs me by the arm, takes me in the men’s biggest congratulations you’ll ever get is, well, packed my stuff again, left for New York. We room and asks me, “Who are you with?” (both maybe you deserve it. So I was supposed to rehearsed. Two and a half weeks later I was in laugh) meet the band in San Francisco, but the band the studio doing Gypsy Folk Tales. I figured broke up. Mickey Tucker, Cameron Brown we’d go in six or seven months later! Art JI: The ultimate New York question, right? and Bill Hardman left the band in Japan. knew I wrote because Jim Green told him. So Art says, “who’s got something?” and looks BW: You got it. So I say, “nobody.” “So how JI: What was that all about? straight at me. So I pulled out two tunes: would you like to join the Jazz Messengers?” “Sure!! Of Course!!” So he says, “We’re going to Japan in two weeks, and you can’t go because you need a visa, but I want you to “So my point is, to be a great studio come to my apartment tomorrow at the Came- lot on 45th Street, and I’ll give you the records musician, you gotta have a selfless to learn. You add a part to play. It was a quintet then—Bill Hardman on trumpet David demeanor—not one ounce of ego, take a Schnitter on tenor Mickey Tucker on piano, Blakey on drums, Cameron Brown on bass. lotta shit in regard to what you’re willing Blakey says, “We’ll fly you out to San Fran- cisco for two weeks at the Keystone Corner.” to put up with. ‘Can you do it like so-and so?’ Todd Barkan owned the club back then then. That night he took Pam and I down to the Em- So I realize that I gotta make choices now, pire Diner, 22nd and 10th, and he made us play for him. He bought us food, gave us money, a very quickly in my first few months ride home, he even gave me clothes. He said I was square as a pool table and twice as green. in New York.”

JI: Oh, man! [laughter.] “Hawkman,” and “Time Will Tell.” I gave BW: So I get to his apartment, he comes to the BW: Oh, they were just tired of Art’s stuff. him a drum part, and he looked at it, crumpled door in his robe and his house shoes, with a Art’s program is designed for you to fire your- it up, threw it on the floor, and yelled, “stomp stack of records, says “here, learn these.” I go, self. it off!!” “ thank y—” he shuts the door in my face. Art never says good-bye on the phone or anything. JI: Explain that. JI: Yow! He says his piece and then you’d hear a click. Before they go to Japan, I get enough done, so BW: Well, he uses young musicians to give BW: So he played it, and put his own Blakey I go to Mikell’s—that’s where they’d go to them experience, and his life is an open book. signature drum style on it. Lesson number keep working in between road gigs, either He teaches you all about the experiences. You five: You don’t write Blakey drum parts! there or the Village Gate—that was a given. meet the cats. You see the business from top to So I came up to listen to the band, and I had bottom. You meet all the promoters. But the JI: No kidding… added a third part to the tunes he wanted me to pay scale is gonna be what it is. When I first play. I made a list of the tunes I added parts to. joined the band I was making four hundred a BW: So, anyway, I’d been in the band for a So suddenly it’s a sextet. I’m playing “Blues week in the States and we had to pay our own little over two weeks, and within two hours March”, “Moanin,’” all these tunes. Plus, I hotel. This was in ’77, and we were doubling had two tunes recorded. Some of those guys, learned all the extra parts of the tunes from up in rooms. So it was tight. You’d come off like David Schnitter, had been in the band for when he had a sextet with Freddie Hubbard, the road, and not have any money. So once four years and hadn’t written anything for the Curtis Fuller and Wayne Shorter. So they go you get aspirations to be your own man, it’s (Continued on page 28)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 27 way, back to the story. So by that time, I was Some nights it would be James’ night, and I’d Bobby Watson rolling pretty good, I was about ready to leave get up there and really blow, and I wouldn’t the band. I was peaking in that experience. get nothing!! But I still had to keep that curve, (Continued from page 27) Every night I was wiping—Art taught me how that peak in mind, and be a professional. So I to build, based on how and what he plays be- had to learn how not to lean on the drums, band. David went home that night and racked hind you. because that makes you lazy. his brain to get something written. So that was the beginning of the turnaround with Art Bla- JI: How did that work? What did he teach you JI: I have to ask. Tell me what did Blakey do key’s resurgence and fresh material. So Walter about building solos? concerning the tune “Mrs. B.C.?” left and we went through a few piano players; Albert Daley for a minute … George Cables, BW: Well, he had a philosophy: You don’t BW: Pam wrote the song. It’s right up Art’s and then James Williams. Between me and want to play for so long that when you stop alley, I thought it’d work great for the group, James both writing tunes, people started writ- playing and the people applaud, you don’t you know? I arranged it, took the melody, ing. know whether they applauded because they opened up at the bridge, unison at the ‘A’ sec- liked it or because you’re through!! [much tion passed it out, didn’t put a name in the JI: When did the Marsalises come in? laughter.] Then, also, Art was very into dy- corner of the sheet music. The band loved it— namics. He would start the solo on this (points I knew if I told them I brought in a tune that BW: Well, this was all the setup before they left) cymbal for two choruses. On the third my wife wrote, cats would be prejudiced came in. We got Charles Fambrough in the chorus, he’d move to this one (points right.). against it before they even heard it. So I just band, who’d just left McCoy Tyner. He wrote Sometimes he’d start with brushes, then move brought it in and everybody assumed I wrote for Blakey. We did the Straight Ahead record, to a flat cymbal. Then he’d gradually build, it. So we’re playing it, and for about six Live at Keystone Corner, Reflection of Blues, and the one over here is the one he’d lean on! months we were opening the sets with it. Art all of a sudden there was new material, and And by the time he’d get to the big cymbal, loved that tune, loved that tune, man. Pam was Art was coming back. The band had an identi- you’d better be peaking! And even if you pregnant with Lefiya, our first born. So we ty. It was fresh. We still had the old stand-bys. thought you were going to take another cho- were at the Keystone Corner, and she was sit- We could not get out of any concert unless we rus, he had a thing where he’d get to the top ting in the audience. Art had been announcing the tune, says to the audience, “We’re going to open the set with Mrs. B.C.” He had been tell- ing audiences that it was my tune. So before “‘So how would you like to join the Jazz the set, I said, “Art I have to tell you, man. Pam wrote that song. I know you’re gonna Messengers?’ ‘Sure!! Of Course!!’ So he says, announce that I wrote it, but she wrote the song.” So he says, in a mock angry voice, ‘We’re going to Japan in two weeks, and you “You %#$@*#!! OK, OK…” So he goes out and says, “This is written by Pamela Watson, can’t go because you need a visa, but I want sitting right over there...Pamela take a bow.” After the tune, he goes to the mic and says, you to come to my apartment tomorrow at the “You know, Pamela writes all of Bobby’s tunes and Bobby puts his name on Camelot on 45th Street, and I’ll give you the ‘em!!” [both crack up with laughter.]

records to learn. You add a part to play.’” LAST CALL

JI: You said earlier that the year when you played “Blues March,” “Night in Tunisia,” and press roll you in, he’d think you’d peaked were really peaking, you thought you might be “Moanin’,” and “Along Came Betty.” out, and he’s back there just rockin, and then ready to leave the band. When was that? he’d go (sings a bombastic five-note drum riff) JI: How and when did you and Branford over- and bam—that’d be it!! And the whole thing BW: That was around ’81. lap? would come down, and—you can keep playing if you want to-- but you know you ain’t JI: Who was in the band? BW: Branford replaced me. Me, Billy Pierce gonna get no more from him! Plus, Art would and Wynton was the frontline back then. All pick people every night that he’d chose to play BW: Me, Wynton, Billy Pierce, James Wil- that stuff from Florida that’s called Wynton, behind. He wouldn’t play behind you every liams, and Charles Fambrough. We did four or American Hero?—those are Art Blakey rec- night so that you couldn’t lean on him. five albums. ords!! They repackaged it and put Wynton as the leader. They also edited my solos off the JI: What do you mean by that—‘wouldn’t JI: So why or how did it end? tunes on some of those tracks. play behind you?’ BW: Wynton always wanted Branford in the JI: How could he do that? BW: Well, he would shut down his left hand, band. He was always saying, “My brother and you’d only get that basic shuffle beat should have this gig.” I would always say, “He BW: He’s a bad man. The guy that runs the (sings tut-tut-tut-tut..) he’s playing, but he can have it when I’m done!” There was one label…those are all from the same sessions— ain’t playin’, he ain’t feedin’ you, ain’t playin’ gig at Fat Tuesday in New York we had, and Live at Bubba’s in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. off of you. So sometimes it would be my night. Blakey was upset, and we were backstage on a The information on those albums is wrong. Everything I’d do, if I just, you know, “boop!” break. He had this speech he used to always go They didn’t give me credit on my songs. Any- He’d catch everything. I could do no wrong. (Continued on page 30)

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ORDER Start Your Promotion NOW! - PressToRelease.com To Advertise CALL:Experience 215-887-8880 ResultsFebruary-March 2020 In  Jazz 24-48 Inside Magazine Hours!  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com CALL 215-887-8880 29 He did it with Lee [Morgan]. It was the same BW: Stuff like “To See Her Face,” Time Will Bobby Watson thing when he wanted Freddie [Hubbard] in Tell,” stuff I had done with Art, and some new the band over me.” They were still playing my stuff I had written. Some Robin Eubanks (Continued from page 28) stuff, but I didn’t wanna hear it. Then one day things, and some standards.. I just went to see them. He was like, through: “You guys aren’t swinging!” You “Where’ve you been? Where’s your horn? “I JI: How did you and Robin get close? Just sound like you’re playing out of an exercise said, “Well, I just came to hear the band.” He through being in the Blakey Band? book! I wanna hear some mistakes! I played said, “Well I don’t wanna see you!! What with Charlie Parker, and you guys are not up good are you without your horn? Don’t come BW: Uh-huh. Just knowing Robin, we hit it to par!” I’d heard it before, but he had Wynton out here without your horn!!” And we were off right away. He was working on Broadway and those new guys in the back, who had nev- back together again, just like that. back then, and in between shows he would er heard it. Me and James are sitting there, and come over at our house and play cards with some of the guys are going, “What the heck is JI: In what sense? Pam and me. He was always there. going on? He’s going nuts!” I look over at Wynton and some of the guys, and I kind of BW: In spirit, in talking, and he was calling JI: Now, he’s a Buddhist, and you’re a Mus- wink at them, like, “It’s ok, it’s ok,” and Art me for arrangements, you know. I was there lim. How did that work out? caught me!! And I looked at him, and he about two weeks before he died. He was on his looked at me… and at that point my days were deathbed. BW: Oh, it’s not really… we didn’t really talk numbered. Because I was blowing his psyche about it. I mean, our religion is music, you game, and he can’t have me in the band—I JI: How did that come about? know? It’s like you said, live and let live… knew too much. For him to be effective, I had The real cats are like that. The first album was to go. So man, it was just a matter of time. BW: He called me. He said, Bobby, I’m going called Jewel, it came out on a Swedish label, I to start another band with four horns, I want think it’s on Evidence Records now. The band JI: So how did he come at you with it? you to do an arrangement with this, this, that, was Smitty Smith, Mulgrew Miller, Curtis and so on. His voice was so light at the time. I Lundy, and Melton Mustafa. We had the clas- BW: He came to me and said, I wanna add didn’t want to, but I did one arrangement, sic quintet. At the same time, we started a la- another alto—I want you to arrange all the ‘cause I knew the first time I walked in the bel called New Note, Michael Cuscuna was parts. I said, “Well, Art, that’s gonna take a lot bedroom, the next time I saw him…and sure advising us. Dennis Sullivan got an investor, of work, man. Why can’t Branford just learn enough, he said, “you got any music?” I said, and he became the owner. We went to Rudy all the music and add another note, the way I “here it is, Art.” I knew I couldn’t go see him Van Gelder and did a record called Beatitudes. did?” He said, “I want you to do this.” I go, without any music, so I did it. Max Roach was It’s a quartet record with Curtis, Kenny Wash- “Ok, but it’s gonna take a lot of time…” So he there, Charles Fambrough, Pam was there, ington, Mulgrew and myself. starts bringing Branford on gigs so he could Art’s son and daughter was there. I guess I learn my part. We were in Washington, at was looking at him in shock. His face was JI: The music on the record was… Blues Alley, and at the end of the gig, I’m drawn, his legs were like pencils. And I guess driving to New York with him and he goes, I was staring for a minute, when he looked at BW: “Karita”, “ETA”, “Beatitudes” “Orange “You know Bobby, you’ve been around the me, and said, “Bobby Watson!! Stop looking Blossom” by Curtis, “To See Her Face”… world with me, several dozens of times. at me like that!” So I snapped out of it. He You’ve recorded with me. You’ve been up asked his daughter Sekeena for some cereal, JI: Tell me about how the 29th Street Quartet under my armpit for four and a half years, I’ve and she brought him some Wheat Chex with came about. given you all that I have to give, I think it’s milk. He asked for some sugar, and she said, time for you to leave the band. I think you’re “Well, Dad, you know, you’re not supposed to BW: We all went to the same repair man, Sol ready to fly.” I said, OK, because I was feeling have sugar in your condition.” And he said Fromkin in New York. He used to work on it too. I was so ready to go. I said, no problem. [mimics a gruff raspy voice] “Later for that— Bird’s horns. He’s from the old school. He’s He said, “Well when do you wanna leave?’ It I’m dying! I can eat what I want!! [both laugh- the man. He’d have a big Christmas party eve- was, like, July. I said, “Well can I stay until ter]. So like I say, in one way he was facing it, ry year for all the saxophone players. Jim Har- Christmas? I want to go to Europe with you but in another way he wasn’t because he didn’t tog, Ed Jackson, and Rich Rosenberg had a one more time.” He said, “No problem!!” sign a will. The lawyers were there trying to sax quartet, they were looking for a fourth Three weeks later, I’m in New York, and I see get him to sign, and he wouldn’t do it. guy. They were going to Europe, and they that there’s a gig at the Bottom Line, and I needed somebody with a name. So they came didn’t even know about it! John Ramsey NEW HORIZONS to me, and I said sure. Hartog’s loft on 29th called me and said, “Art wants me to call you street is where we rehearsed, hence the name. and tell you that you’re not on the band.” JI: The year that you left Blakey’s band was This was in ‘82 or ‘83. We started playing out When all this was going down, Wallace Roney ‘81. So what did you do then? in parks having public rehearsals. Things start- was now in the band, because Wynton was ed to click. We did some originals. Then all breaking out. His career was taking off with BW: I jumped right into my solo career. I had the guys started writin. We did some Stevie the first album on Columbia, and he had left a band, my wife Pam was in it. Me and Robin Wonder, some Monk, Wayne Shorter, Mingus, Art to go do the V.S.O.P. thing with Herbie Eubanks on trombone, James Weidman on Bud Powell. Everything was fair game. We Hancock, Wayne Shorter and Ron Carter. piano, Rudy Walker was on drums and Marcus went to Holland and Belgium, did our first Wynton said he wouldn’t come back unless McLauren was on bass. I called clubs up and tour. Man, people were just going nuts over it. Branford was permanently in the band. So that down the East Coast, Philly, Boston, D.C., We weren’t so ethereal like the World Saxo- was it. I didn’t speak to Art for over a year New York, and Jersey areas like Long Island. phone Quartet, We were more like a classic after that. I didn’t even go around the band. string quartet, nothing abstract about us. Jackie McLean called me for support, and JI: What tunes were you all playing? We’ve been together for like 14 years. The said, “That’s how Art does. He did it with me. group was so influential, we must have

30 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 the young people?” We’d go out and hear the UMKC thing happened, that was hip, because Bobby Watson local musicians, and there would be a band you gained even more financial stability, but playing, and we’d be hanging back, leaning still maintain your international reputation. spawned at least 20 other sax quartets around against the wall trying to be New York cool, There are serious advantages to being in aca- the world. and the next thing you know, there he is up on demia. And I can pick and choose what gigs I the bandstand. He was leading the charge, want, which ones I can turn down. JI: Really? “Come on guys!!” Next thing you know, we’d all be up there…He loved young people. He JI: What’s your take on the kind of success BW: Yeah, they send us tapes and CDs and didn’t want to be around his peers. He wasn’t you’ve had? sign them, saying we were their inspiration. into that ‘all star’ crap. He hated that. He be- They record some of our stuff, too. lieved in the band concept. BW: Well, it runs in cycles, like I said. The bittersweet part about a successful year is that JI: Were you more successful overseas than JI: How hard is it now to do what Blakey did you can’t go back the next year. If you play stateside? then? the Monterey Jazz Festival, it’s not like when Miles or Dizzy played back in the day. It just BW: We couldn’t hit it off in the States be- BW: It’s harder than it should be. You get to a wasn’t a festival unless you had them in it. cause there were two whites and two blacks. It certain age, and people of my generation get Most jazz musicians are sort of in that middle was the only interracial sax quartet. The critics didn’t know how to deal. People in the States had really never heard anything like that. “Remember I told you—in New York,

JI: But over in Europe? you don’t get a congratulations, or BW: We were big. We opened for Miles, Diz- zy, everybody. Played big festivals. We did ‘You sound good,’ or ‘I’m happy for two records on Antilles label. Second Floor Music publishes our pieces. The thing that broke that up was that with a quartet, you just you.’ The biggest congratulations can’t change the personnel—if someone can’t make the gig, you’re all stuck, in a way. Peo- you’ll ever get is, ‘Well, maybe ple would ask us, how much of that is written down? The sheet music just gave a basic sketch. We knew among us how to create the you deserve it.’” polyphony. Instant counterpoint. We took a hiatus, because tensions were building in the pushed out to pasture. There’s always a new ground, though. They’ll bring Bobby Watson band—because by that time I had signed with batch coming up. Now they’re doing all the and Horizon out in 2003, but I can’t come Columbia, and they were promoting me. I had gigs that you used to do. They don’t realize back in 2004!! They have to keep it fresh. So to appear with Horizon. So if the quartet had that this whole business is about runs. You it’s bittersweet because you’re so elated to be something they wanted to do—that was their have a little run, you re-group, and have anoth- hitting all these festivals, but at the same time ticket, their way to get recognition—I was an er run. They look at us now like we’re failures, you’re sad, because you know you ain’t impediment. So a few times too many I had to but there are peaks and valleys in an artistic comin’ back next year! [laughter] Like you get cancel, and we had to move a date. That was career. They’ll get tired of it, because what on the cover of Downbeat magazine. You’re the straw that broke the camel’s back. happens is you run around the track a few like, “great!” But it only lasts for a month. The times. I’ve already done the circuit—the next month, you’re in the pile of old maga- JI: How much did your Blakey gig have to do Showcase in Chicago, the North Sea, Mon- zines, you might not be on another cover for with the success of Horizon? treux. You do the circuit. The money doesn’t three, four or five years. Or if you get a great change too much. The conditions don’t change review in the New York Times, it last for 24 BW: Art Blakey had everything to do with it. that much. You are who you are. You can hours. The next day, they’re wrapping fish Because I had met everybody in the busi- keep doing that the rest of your life, or you can with it!! [I’m bursting with laughter.] That’s ness—George Wein, Norman Granz, every back off, re-group and wait and try to come the down side of success. That’s what the promoter, every club owner, festival promoter. back at a higher level. Let ‘em miss you for a young guys are starting to see. That’s the I would call them and say “ I have a band while. “now what?” part that is the meat of survival. now,” and they would try to help me. Art Bla- It’s about what do you do when you’re not in key saved me about 10 years of dues paying. JI: How did you eventually find your way the spotlight. Keep those gigs rolling, if you’re back to Kansas City? serious about propelling this music…just keep JI: What else do you remember most about rolling with it. Blakey? BW: I was working every day at least 300 days a year, with different projects, playing JI: I guess it’s about always being in the BW: He would always tell me, “There’s two with the Mingus Big Band, my group, solo game, although not necessarily being the things you can’t afford, Bobby Watson: sleep hits, overseas projects, recording as a sideman “name.” and getting sick—that’s for rich people!” Art on projects, the Jazzmobile. Things weren’t Blakey was the most positive person I’ve ever getting better, but I was working a lot. I didn’t BW: Right. met in my life. After the gigs, he’d ask, know how I was going to get off the treadmill. “where are you going now?” We’d go to jam I kept the calendar full. The money was al- sessions, And he’d be asking, “Where are all ways flowing. but it was exhausting. When the (Continued on page 32)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 February-March 2020  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 31 because when its time to go out, he’ll just give JI: What would you like to be remembered Bobby Watson you a certain look, or he’ll just keep his head for? down, which is a way of saying, “I’m out.” (Continued from page 31) The point is, basic things can be used that you BW: Curtis Lundy and I mentored a lot of learn to help you be successful. It’s not just guys coming up—Jason Moran, Stefon Harris. REFLECTIONS about shedding and learning your licks. You They were both in my combo at the Manhattan gotta be able to play with anybody. School of Music. Christian McBride, Philip JI: Where are you with regard to your philo- Harper, Orrin Evans, Terrell Stafford, Ed Si- sophical approach about influence? JI: What have you not done that you’d still mon, Rodney Green, Smitty Smith. In my his- like to get to? tory, that’s the part that I don’t see written BW: I think someone like Kenny Garrett is a about. Harold O’Neal. Logan Richardson. I major influence on saxophone players nowa- BW: I’d like to hear some of my music in gave Roy Hargrove his first record date, on No days. I don’t think I’m that much of an influ- movies. Songs like, “Time Will Tell,” “Love Question About It, my first Blue Note record. I ential player at all, because my style is not so Remains,” “In Case You Missed It,” also took Wynton to Philadelphia when nobody easy to imitate; I don’t stay in one bag, and I known as “Fuller Love” named for Curtis knew who he was. A lot of these guys, I took can change my sound according to the situa- Fuller. Or “Beatitudes.” These are my favorite them to Europe for the first time. These things tion. tunes that I’ve written that I think are my sig- are important to me. It’s important for people nature songs. That’s what’s missing these days to know that we are all connected, and it’s all JI: Why is that? in the younger generation of musicians— part of the jazz story. It’s just what you’re signature songs. supposed to do, I don’t think that it’s mali- BW: Just from survival, because I have to cious that people don’t mention these things, I change styles so many times because of the JI: Why do you think that is? just think they forget to portray that side of the different kinds of work I’ve done. With Joe story. Delia I played Motown stuff, swing style with BW: A lot of these times they are prepared Panama Francis, Blakey stuff is hard bop, technically, but they haven’t had enough time JI: Just as people helped you, you’re passing avant-garde jazz in the Winds of Manhattan served on the bandstand to figure out who they the torch in the same way… with Sam Rivers, a ten-saxophone ensemble. are, what their strengths are, and what they are Whatever situation I’m in, I can blend. As Art the best at. Once you realize these things, you BW: The same thing was done for me. David Murray helped me, Hamiet Bluiett, Harold Mabern, Idris Muhammed, Slide Hampton, George Coleman, Clifford Jordan, Louis “[Art Blakey] had a philosophy: You Hayes all did gigs with me when I needed name power to help me get over. don’t want to play for so long that JI: You once said on a gig at my campus that you have to work hard just to suck. when you stop playing and the people BW: I can’t take credit for that one. I got it applaud, you don’t know whether they from J.B. Dyas, who said, it takes a lot of work just to suck.

applauded because they liked it or JI: Well, you said that just before you blew the house down, which really meant every- because you’re through!!” thing to my kids at Kansas State, because they realized how humbling it is to hear you say that and still be a monster player. Blakey used to say, let the punishment fit the know what you’re about. crime. BW: Well, we all learn from each other, We JI: Anything else left that you’d like to see give and we get... I’m a collection of my life JI: Now that you’re on the inside, with the rest happen in your career? experience. I have very few original ideas. of us “academia nuts,” as Rod Fleeman calls I’ve taken the good things and made them my it, what are you trying to pass on to your stu- BW: I’m always happy to see myself nominat- own. They say fair exchange is no robbery. dents? ed in the critics poll. In ‘93 Tailor Made was You’ve also influenced me, I’ve learned things nominated for a Grammy. I got Musician Of from you, like when you helped me the way BW: I’m trying to teach them how to be effec- The Year in Downbeat. But I am always per- you did when I arrived at UMKC on the aca- tive outside of their comfort zone; how to see plexed by why my name is never mentioned as demic side, your scholarly thing as well as with your ears, and hear with your eyes, as Art a composer. I’d like to see more recognition your playing. I take something from every- would say. from the critics about my writing. Also, the body. And try to give back everything I’ve things that Pam brought to the table, like the got. JI: Now that’s an interesting concept! one-act opera called The Meeting, premiered at Aaron Davis Hall. I’d like to see that put  BW: Yeah. If you’re listening, you can tell into production. Also, I’d like to have some of when a drummer changes cymbals, because my music choreographed. I would like to be Wayne E. Goins, Associate Professor, is the you know what it looks like by the way it able to keep Horizon going. Director of Jazz at Kansas State University in sounds. You can also hear with your eyes, Manhattan Kansas.

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AS PIANIST, CONTEMPORARY ORDER THESE KEYBOARD ARTIST, LEADER — RECORDINGS featuring Eric RECORDINGS Essix, Kim Waters, Gerald Albright, Lenny White, Larry Coryell, Chuck Loeb, Russ Freeman (Rippingtons), Euge Groove, Najee, Walter Beasley, Marion Meadows ...

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