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28 March 2019 Sessions.Pdf COMMISSION OF INQUIRY INTO STATE CAPTURE HELD AT PARKTOWN, JOHANNESBURG 10 28 MARCH 2019 DAY 75 20 28 MARCH 2019 – DAY 75 PROCEEDINGS ON 28 MARCH 2019 CHAIRPERSON: Good morning Mr Pretorius, good morning everybody. Good morning Mr Agrizzi. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Morning Chair. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: Morning Chair nice to see honourable Chair again. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much and thank you for coming back to assist the commission. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: It is my pleasure. CHAIRPERSON: Yes. I know that certain things have happened which are in the 10 public domain and I just want to assure you that I was very concerned about certain things that happened and I asked enquiries to be made and I was assured that it was not connected with evidence that you giving here and I was assured that the processes of the commission would be respected until it has finished its work. I was informed that the new Director of Public Prosecutions knew nothing about those things. I was very concerned and I continue to be concerned that nobody should do anything that would discourage witnesses from assisting the commission. I hope that going forward no-one who is supposed to be really supporting the commission will do anything to discourage witnesses from coming forward. But I am very grateful that despite everything you are here and you still want to assist the commission. 20 MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: Chair thank you very much it has been a long road and we anticipated it. CHAIRPERSON: Yes. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: But we are here to help. CHAIRPERSON: Yes. No thank you very much. Thank you very much I hope that more people who have information, crucial information will be encouraged to do the Page 2 of 191 28 MARCH 2019 – DAY 75 right thing to come and assist this commission because what it is looking into is such an important project and issue for the whole nation. And I think I will be stating the obvious if I say that there can be no doubt that there are many people throughout the country who would not like this commission to succeed. But there are many people in the country who support this commission and I believe that those who support the commission will actually prevail and that all of us must remain undeterred in doing the right thing. And I really thank you for coming forward again. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: It is my pleasure Chair and you are hundred percent right we got to do this for the next generation. For our grandchildren and for their children’s 10 children. CHAIRPERSON: Yes. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: We have to look after this beautiful country. CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you very much. Mr Pretorius. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Thank you Chair. May Mr Agrizzi be sworn? CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you. REGISTRAR: Please state your full names for the record? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: My name is Angelo Agrizzi. REGISTRAR: Do you have any objection to taking the prescribed oath? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: None whatsoever. 20 REGISTRAR: Do you consider the oath to be binding on your conscience? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: Most definitely. REGISTRAR: Do you swear that the evidence you will give will be truth; the whole truth and nothing but the truth; if so please raise your right hand and say, so help me God. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: So help me God. Page 3 of 191 28 MARCH 2019 – DAY 75 REGISTRAR: Thank you. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Yes Mr Pretorius. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Mr Agrizzi before you you have a supplementary statement which has been attested to by you. At page 60 is that your signature? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: Sorry Mr – Advocate Pretorius just let me get there. Yes that is. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Just for the record Chair this is Exhibit S9. And from pages 1 to 60… 10 CHAIRPERSON: Yes I am sorry. So let us properly put on record because it is not a previous one that we used is it not, the exhibit? It is a new statement? ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Yes. CHAIRPERSON: In other words are we continuing with an exhibit number that we used before or should we… ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Well this is the same exhibit number … CHAIRPERSON: That we used before? ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Series that we used … CHAIRPERSON: Oh okay. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: In respect of his earlier evidence. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Okay. No that is fine then. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: So Mr Agrizzi your supplementary affidavit together with annexures will be Exhibit S9. The supplementary affidavit from pages 1 to 60 is that true and correct? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: That is true and correct. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Then may I ask you made certain statements Page 4 of 191 28 MARCH 2019 – DAY 75 at the time you gave evidence originally Mr Agrizzi. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: Yes. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: In relation to the circumstances in which you came to give evidence. Is it correct that you have been made no promises of reward? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: That is correct. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: No incentives have been offered to you. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: That is correct Chair. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: In relation to the giving of your evidence. CHAIRPERSON: I am sorry – I am sorry Mr Pretorius I am sorry. No there was some 10 noise coming from the SABC journalist here. I do not know if it was a cell phone or anything. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Alright. CHAIRPERSON: Will everybody please just switch off their cell phones. Okay let us proceed. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Thank you Chair. You have been offered no reward or incentive for testifying here today Mr Agrizzi? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: Most definitely I have not been offered any reward and incentive. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: And you not giving evidence under any form of 20 compulsion? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: Most definitely not. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: And the evidence you are giving is being given freely and voluntary? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: Freely and voluntary Chair. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Yes. I would just like to highlight before you Page 5 of 191 28 MARCH 2019 – DAY 75 deal with the text of your affidavit Mr Agrizzi two circumstances that are relevant to your giving evidence today. You should have before you Exhibit LL1. It has not been filed in the papers, do you have that? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: Just let me have a look sorry. Where would I find that sorry? ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Chair may I give you LL1? CHAIRPERSON: I think somebody will bring you some document ja. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: I thought I had lost it. CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Okay it is actually an annexure LL1 Chair. 10 CHAIRPERSON: Oh okay. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Which will be put in the bundle. CHAIRPERSON: At the end of the annexures in Exhibit S9? ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: Yes Chair. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. ADV PAUL JOSEPH PRETORIUS SC: LL1 is a document for want of a better word that appears to be written in a form of Zulu and LL2 is an attempt by the investigators at least to translate that document. Would you tell the Chair please about the circumstances in which the origin of this document came into your possession? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: I will. Chair I do not always raise these issues and I actually 20 did not – it was by chance. I have been very flippant about any threats and that type of thing. CHAIRPERSON: Yes. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: I have kind of taken in my stride now and I try not to make a big thing out of it because otherwise… CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Page 6 of 191 28 MARCH 2019 – DAY 75 MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: My family get to hear about it and unfortunately I have not briefed them on this yet. CHAIRPERSON: Okay. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: So they are going to hear it for the first time now. The problem is that if I stop making… CHAIRPERSON: Well maybe are you comfortable to talk about it before you talk to them? MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: Chair… CHAIRPERSON: Your family or are you… 10 MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: Chair I am in trouble already with wife. She is now watching this probably and saying ‘now come on tell us’. CHAIRPERSON: Yes. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: And if I do not say something now my phone is going to start ringing and I – you know what I am – Advocate Pretorius with all due respects has put me in a lot of trouble right now. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: But it is fine. It was in a meeting where I got – where I actually was in trouble last week for not picking her up at the airport on time. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. Okay alright. 20 MR ANGELO AGRIZZI: So Chair. So I get a lot of these things. I get missed calls. I get funny numbers. I get put onto these Facebook groups and a lot of that. So I came out of breakfast one morning at Nickle Way and I found this on my windscreen. I actually – what I have learnt to do is to throw them away but this specific one I crumpled up and I thought no let me just keep this. And I called the guys who wash the cars there and I asked them if they saw and they said no, no, they did not see anything.
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