Third Series1R.1 Monday, November 18, 1963 Kartika 27, 1885(Saka)

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/2.6$%+$6(&5(7$5,$7 New Delhi CONTENTS M. [Third SmuJVol.XXll-NtIWIIIb.r, IS to 29, 1C)63!Kartika 27 /0 Ag~4IIQ 8, 1~85 ($akall

COLUMNa No. I-Monday, Nowmber 18, 19631KtJrlika :1.7, 1885(Saka) Member sworn Oral Answers to Questions- Swred Questions Nos. I to 10 1-39 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. II to 30 3'J-55 Unstarred Questions Nos. I to 48 and so to 65 ~5-IOO Obituary references loo-QI Motions for Adjournment- Escape of Mr. Walcott IOI-tO R,: alleged inaccuracy in proc:cedings I I1··I:! Papers laid on the Table IU-16 President's assent to Bills 116-17 Supplementary Demands for Grants (General), 1<)83-64 117 Demands for Excess Grants (Railways), 1961-6z II7 Constitution (Seventeenth Amendment) Bill Ext

No. :I.-Tuesday, Nooember 19. IC)63/KlJf'tika ~, I88Si(Saka) Oral Answers to Questions- Swred Questions Nos. 31 to 38 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 39 to So and sz to 60 292-30 8 Unstarrcd Questions Nos. 66 to 162 3°8-" Re : Motion for Adjournment and correction of record, 3o~-80 Calling AnClltion to Matter of Urgent Public Imponancc Espionage activities by personnel of Pakistan HilJh Commission 380-94 Papers laid on the Table W5-'16 R.: Railway accident J~ Statement r.: rice position in the country 3~6-11 ) Statement r. : sugar problem • 415 Requisitioning and Acquisition of Immovable Property (Amendment) Bill- Iatroduced Motions r. : Committee on Public U ndcrtaltings Motion for Adjoummcnt- Escape of Mr. Walcott CaI1ing Attention to Matter of Urgent Pubic Importance Train-bus collision at Icvcl-c:roSiing ncar Ilen Statian DUly Di&cIt . COLUMNS No. 3-WIdnesday, Nqvmlber ~o, 1963/KartiluJ 39, 188S (Saka) Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 61 to 70 530-80 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Question Nos. 71 to 90 580-93 Unstarred Question Nos. 163 to ~40 and ~~ to Z51 593-646 Procedure re : Calling Attention Not'ces . 646-52 Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance- Recent Developments along the cease-fire line in Kashmir 65~-6~ Papers laid on the Table 668-70 Mnsage from Rajya Sabha 670-11 Committee on Private Members Bills and Resolutions- Twenty-seventh Report 671 MJtions re : Co:n:nittee on Public Undertakings 671-768 Income Tax (Amendment) BiU- Motion to consider Business Advisory Committec- Twentieth Report 79 0 Daily Digest 791-98

No. 4-ThursdDy, Nqv.mber ZI, 1963/Km1ika 30, 188S (Saka) Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 91 to 93. 97 and 94 to 96 799-'l32 Written Answen to Questions- Starred Questions No. 98 to no 8)2-j7 Unstarred Questions Nos. Z52 to 255. 2H to Z83 and z86. z83 to 341 and 343 to 345 81,7-901 Introduction of Minister 902 Papers laid on the Table 902 -05 Messages from Rajya Sabbs 90 5-06 Preventive Detention (Continuance) Bill-introduced 906-21 Business Advisory Committee- Twentieth Report Income Tax (Amendment) BiU-

Motion to consider ~3- 1 Caluaes Z and I . 951-5a Motion to pau . 951-52 Slum Area. (Improvement and Clearance) Am'!ndment BiU- Motion to consider 95Z-IOZ7 East Punjab Ayurvedic and Unanai Practitioners (Delhi Amendment) Bill- Motion to consider, A. passed by Rajya Sabha Dally Digest .

No. S-Friday, Nqv."wer, 22, 1 63IAg ~ I, 188S (Saka) Oral Answers to Questiona- Starred Questions Nos. UI to U3 and uS to 15z Written Anawers to Questions- Starred Questions NOl. U4 and 133 to 1,0 Unstarred Questions No. 346 to 356, 361 to 403 aud 404 to 4111 Calling Attention to Mmer of Urgent Public Importance- Reported Damage to Indian Embassy in Baghdad Re. Motions for Adjournment iii

COLUMNa Papers Laid on the Table 1140-43 Messages from Rajya Sabha 1143 Clarification of statement on rice position 1144-45 BusinesS! of the Houss . 1145-50 East Punjab Ayurvedic and Yunmi Pracdtioners (Delhi Amendment) Bill Motion to consider. as passed by Rajya Sabha IIso-!6 Motion to pa.. . 1185-86 Industrial Employment (Standing Orders) Amendment Bill- Motion to consider. as passed by Rajya Sabha 1186-1104 aau.e :z to 7 and I 03~4 Motion to pass 1104 Demands for Supplermntary Grants (Genera') 1963-64 1104-00 Committee on Private Members' Bills and Resolutions- Twenty-seventh Report Bills Introduced- I. Merchant Shipping (Amendment) Bill (Al7l

No.6-Monday, Nl1fIemher ~~. 1963/Agralur;yana 4, (88S (SakD) COLUMNS

Obituary references 12.65-68 DailY,Digest. 126

NO.7-Tuesday, Nl1fItmMr 26, 1963IA,rahayana ~. 188S (Saito) Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Question Nos. (SI to 192. Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 151 to 180 and 193 to 210 Unstarred Questions Nos. 419 to 424. 426 to 428, 431 to 445, 447 to 518 . 522 to S4S, 550 to 618. 134 1-1467 Shon Notice Question No.1. 14 6R - 69 Calling Attention to Mptters of Urgent Public Imponancc I. Reported News about handing over of of Indian Territory to East Pakis- tan; and 1469-77 2. Incidence of Cholera 1477-S4 Papers laid on the Table 14S4-90 Christian Marriage BiII-

I. Evidence before Joint Committ .. : and 14"" 2. Report of Joint Committee. . 490 Private Members' Bills and Resolution.-

Twenty-clghth Repon 149" Election to Committcc- Public Accounts Committee t; Bills introduccd- I. Unit Trust of India Bill; 1492 2. Companies (Amendment) Bill; 1492 3. Gold (Control) Bill; 1493-95 4. Banking Laws (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill; 1496 5. Central Boards of Revenue Bill; .. nd 1496 6. Delhi (Delegation of Powers) Bill. 1497 Demands for Supplementary Grants (General) 1963-64 1497-1604 Daily Digest. 160.~-18 No. 8-Wednssday, NOfJember 27. 1963/A,rahDyana 6, 1885 (Saito) Oral Answers to Questions- ·Starred Questions No. 21 1.212. and 2.14 to 22.2.. 16IQ- ~ Written Answen to Question.- Starred Questions Nos. 213. 223 to 2.25, 2.27 to 229 and 231 to 240 Unstarred Questions No•. 619 to 623.625 to 631,633 to 635, 637 to 666. 668 to 673, 675 to 679, 681 and 685 to 690 16li8-1702 Calling Attention to Matten of Urgent Public lmportancc- (i) IA F helicol'ter cra,h ncar Poonch 170]-/1 (ii) IAF Dakota crash ncar Banlhal Pa .. 1711-%0 Papers laid on the Table 17%0-22 Appropriation (No. s) Bill 1963-introduccd '733-23 Demands for Excess Grants (Railways), 1961-62. 1723-50 v

CoLUMN6 Requisitioning and Acqui,i ion of Immovabl e Pr.>perty (Am.ndmont) BiIJ- Motion to consider 1750-182.1 Clauses 2. and 1 182.0-21 Motion to P'15S ' 1820-2 I Drugs and Magic Remedies (Objectionable Advertisements) Amendment BIll- Motion to consider, a, passej by Rajya Sabha 182.1-38 Calling Attention to Mmer of Urgent Public Importance- Train-bu. callision ncor Gandhidham 1838-42 Half-An-Hour Discu"ion re: New.. eel on CPl prvcession in Delhi Business Advisory Comminee- Twenty-first Report Daily Digest

NO·9-Thursday, November 28, 1961/Agrahayana 7., 1885 ~ Oral Answers to Qae'tions- Starred Quesions No•. 2.41 to 246, 249 to 254 1867-1905 Short Notice QueS! ion No.2. 1905-15 Written Answers to Qaeslions- Starred Questions Nus. 247, 248, 255 to 270 Unstarred Questions Nos. 691 to 780 1932-90 Calling Anention to Mmer of U rgem Public ImportlUlce- Eviction of displaced persons from Purana Qila 199 1,2111-J!; Papers laid on the Table . 19,1-93 Appropriation (Railways), Nu. 6 Bill,1963-intruduccd 1993-94 Business Advisory Committec- Twenty-first Report 1994 APpropriar:on (No.5) Bill, 1963-passed 1994-9.6 Cem!'ani" (Ame'ldmem) Bi:;- Mot'on to consider 1996-2096 Drugs and Magic Ramedies (Objectionable Advertisements) Amendment Bill- Motion to consider, as passed by Rajya Sabha. 2097-2111 Dally Digest . 21I 7-:U No. lo.-Friday, Novembsr 29, 1963/Agrahayana 8, 1885 (SakiJ) Oral Answers to Questions- Starred Questions No •. 272 to 274, 278, 279, 281 to 286, :&88 and 289 Written Answers to Questions- Starred Questions Nos. 271, 275,276,287,290,291 and 293 to 298 2 165-93 Unstarred Questions Nos. 781 to 828 and 830 to 8so 2.1 93-22 II Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance- Cloture of Ollic< of A5sistant High Commissioner for India at Rajshnhl 2:&I1-2: Statement": rep,rted development in Berubari area . 21.:2-28 Statement ro: India's representation at funeral of President Kennedy 2228-32 Papen laid on the Table ~232-35 Mes&8ie from Raiya Sabha 1235 Durgah Khawaja Sahib (Amendme,\! ) BlJl- Laid on the Table as passed by Rajya Sabha Statement": Tran58ctlon of General Insurance by LIC- Shrf T.T. Krishnamacharf 22.36-37 Business of the House 21.38-39 Statement.,: ~ of Tarllf Commission etc. ~ 3 -40 Appropriation (RaIlwayo) No. 6 Bill, 1963-paaaed :a:a4O-of1 v,

CoLUMNS

Drut. and Mlgic R,me:!ie. O Jj ~, o A:lvertiocments).AmendmeDt Blll- M>tion to consider, a. passed by Rljya Sabha 1141-86 Clause. :I to II and I zl85- 86 Motion to pass 8~ Calling Attention to Muter of Urgent Public I ~ - Rep>rtej detentiJn of an lAC DJbta by the Pal:inan authJritie. at D.·:o" Com"llittee on Private M'!mber,' Bills and Re30Iution.- Twenty-eighth Report ~ o~ r J: P.ll1iJ!H fJr Armel ,en'ice'-NithJrawn 2Z90-Z3 I:I RelOlution re: Agricultural proJuction 33':1-48 Daily Digest . lH9-5 6 N.B.- The sign + marke:! above the name of a member on Questions, which were orally amwered indicate that the Question was actually uked on the tloor of the House by that Member.

GMGIPND-LS 11-1549 rll) LSD-Io-J I-{;)-880. LOK SABHA Alphabetical List of Members

A B-contd. Abdur Rashid, Bakshi (Jammu and Barua, Shri Rajendranath (Jorhat). Kashmir). Barupal, Shri Panna Lal (GangB- Abdul Wahid, Shri T. (Vellore). nagar). Achal Singh, Shri (Agra). Basant Kunwari, Shrimati (Kai- sarganj) . Achal Singh, Shri R. (Mavelikera). Basappa, Shri C. R. (Tiptur). Akkamma Devi, Shrimati (Nilgiris). . Alagesan, Shri O. V. (Chingleput). Basumatari, Shri D. (Goalpara) . Alva, Shri A. Shankar (Mangalore). Baswant, Shri Sonubhai Dagadu Alva, Shri Joachim (Kanara). (Thana). Aney, Dr. M. S. (Nagpur). Bateshwar Singh, Shri (Giridih). Anjanappa, Shri B. (Nellore). Berwa, Shri Onkar Lal (Kotah). Ankineedu, Shri Maganti (Gudivada). Besra, Shri Satyacharan (Dumka). Anthony, Shri Frank (Nominared- Bhaga!, Shri Baliram (Shahabad). Anglo-Indians) . Bhagavati, Shri Bijoy Chandra Arunachalam, Shri N. (Ramanathapu- (Darrang). ram). Bhakat Darshan, Shri (Garhwal). Azad, Shri Bhagwat Jha (Bhagalpur). Bhanja Deo, Shri Laxminarayaa (Keonjhar) . Bhanu Parkash Singh, Shri (Raj- B garh) . Bhargava, Shri M. B. L. (Ajmer). Babunath Singh, Shri (Surguja). Bhatkar, Shri Laxmanrao Shrawanii Bade, Shri R8iIJlchandra Vitha! (Khar- (Khamgaon) . gone). Bhattacharya, Shri Dinen (Seram- Badrudduja, Shri (Murshidabad). pore). Bagri, Shri Mani Ram (Hissar). Bhattacharyya, Shri C. K. (Raiganj). Bajaj, Shri Kamalnayan (Wardha). Bhawani, Shri Lakhmu (Bastar). Bakliwal, Shri Mohanlal (Drug). Bheel, Shri P. H. (Dohad). Bal Krishana Singh, Shri (Chandauli). Biren Dutta, Shri (Tripura West). Balakrishnan, Shri S. C. (Koilpatti). Birendra Bahadur Singh, Shri (Raj- Balmiki, Shri K. L. (Khurja). nandgaon). Banerjee, Shri S. M. (Kanpur). Bist, Shri Jang Bahadur Singh Banerji, Dr. R. (Bankura). (Almora). Barkataki, Shrimati Renuka Devi (Barpeta). Borooah, Shri Pratulla Chandra (Sibsagar) . Barrow, Shri A. !:. T. (Nominated- Anglo-Indians). Brahm Prakash, Shri (Outer ~ . Barua, Shri Hem (Gauhati). Brajeshwar Prasad, Shri (Gaya). 1383 (Ai) LSI>-l. (ii)

~o . D-=ntd.

Braj Basi Lal, Shri (Faizabad). Dasappa, Shri H. C. (Bangalore). Brij Raj Singh, Shri (Jhalawar). Dasaratha Deb, Shri (Tripura East) . Brij Raj Singh, Shri (Bareilly). Dass, Shri C. (Tirupathi). Buta Singh, Shri (Moga). Deo, Shri P. K. (Kalahandi). c Deo, Shri Vijaya Bhushan Singh (Raigarh).

Chakravartty, Shrimati Renu (Bar. Deo Bhanj, Shri P. C. (Bhubaneswar). rackpore). ; Chakraverti, Shri P. R. (Dhanbad). Desai, Shri Morarji (Surat). Chanda, Shrimati Jyotsna (Cachar). Dcshmukh, Dr. Panjabrao S. (Amra- Chandak, Shri B. L. (Chindwara). vati). Chandrasekhar, Shrimati M. (Mayu- Deshmukh, Shri B. D. (Aurangabad). ram) . Deshmukh, Shri Shivaji Rao Shanka!!" Chandriki, Shri Jagannathrao Venka- Rao (Parbhani). tarao (Raichur). Dey, Shri S. K. (Nagaur). Chattar Singh, Shri (Chamba). Dhaon, Shri B. K. (Lucknow). Chatterjee, Shri H. P. (Nabadwip). Chaturvedi, Shri S. N. (Firozabad). Dharmalingam, Shri R. (Tiruvannll- malai). Chaudhary, Shri Yudhvir Singh (Mahendragarh) . Dhuleshwar Meena, Shri (Udaipur). Chaudhry, Shri C. L. (Mahua). Dighe, Shri Bhaskar Narayan Chaudhuri, Shri D. S. (Mathura). (Kolaba) .

Chaudhuri, Shrimati Kamala (Hapur). Dinesh Singh, Shri (Sa Ion \ . Chaudhuri, Shri Saehindra Nath (Ghatal) . Dixit, Shri G. N. (Eta wah) . Chaudhuri, Shri Tridib Kumar Dubey, Shri Rajaram Giridharilal (Berhampur) . (Bijapur North).

Chavan, Shri D. R. (Khard). Dwivedi, Shri Mannoo La! (Hamir- Chavda, Shrimati Zohraben (Banas- pur). kantha) . Dwivedi, Shri Surendranalh (Kendra- Chuni Lal, Shri (Ambala). para). Colaeo, Dr. (Goa, Daman and Diu).

E D

Dafle. Shri Vijayasinhrao Pamrao Elayaperumal, Shri L. (Tirukoilur). (Miraj) . Elias, Shri Mohammad (Howrah). Daji, Shri Romi F. (Indore). Ering, Shri D. (Nominated-North Datjit Singh, Shri (Una). East Frontier Tract). Das, Dr. Mono Mohon (Ausgram). Das, Shri Basanta Kumar (Contai). F Das, Shri Nayantara (Jamui). Das, Shri S!.ldhansu (Diamond Har- Firodia, Shri Motilal Kundanmal bour) . (Ahmednagar) . (iii)

G ~o .

Baekwad, Shri Fatehsinhrao Pratab- Hem Raj, Shri (Kangra). lIinhrao (Baroda). Himatsingka, Shri Prabhu Dayal fJahmari, Shri Visllwanath Singh (Godda). (Ghazipur) . Himmatsinhji, Shri (Kutch). 6aitonde, Dr. (Goa, Daman and Diu). Hukam Singh, Shri (Patiala). Oajraj Singh, Shri (Gurgaon). fJanapati Ram, Shri (Machhlishahr). I Gandhi, Shri V. B. (Bombay City Imbichibava, Shri E. K. (Ponnani). Central South). Igbal Singh, Shri (FerozE'pore). fJanga Devi, Shrimati (Mohanlalganj). 6ayatri Devi, Shrimati (Jaipur). 1 Ghosh, Shri Atulya (Asansol). Ghosh, Shri N. R. (Jalpailr11Ti). Jadhav Shri Madhavrao Laxmanrao (Malegaon) . Ghosh, Shri P. K. (Ranchi East). Jadhav, 8hri Tulshidas (Nanded). 6hyasuddin Ahmad, Shri (Dhubri). Jagjivan Ram, Shri (Sasaram). 60karan Prasad, Shri (Misrikh). Jain, 8hri A. P. (Tumkur). Goni, Shri Abdul Ghani (Jammu and Kashmir). Jaipal Singh, Shri (Ranchi West). &Iopalan, Shri A. K. (Kasergod). Jamir, Shri Chubatoshi (Nominated- Naga Hills-Tuensang Area). Sounder, Shri R. Muthu (Tiruppat- tur). Jam1,lnadevi, Shrimati (Jhabua). Oovind Das, Dr. (Jabalpur). Jayaraman, Shri A. (Wandiwash). Guha, Shri Arun Chandra (Barasat). Jedhe, Shri Gulabrao Keshavrao (Baramati) . 6ulshan, Shri Dhanna Singh (Bhatinda) . Jena, Shri Kanhu Charan (Bhadrak). Gupta, Shri Badshah (Mainpuri). Jha, Shri Yogendra (Madhubani). Gupta, Shri Indrajit (Calcutta South Joshi, Shri Anand Chandra (Sidhi). Weat). J~ , Shrimati Subhadra (Balram- Gupta, Shri Kashi Ram (Alwar). pur). flupta, Shri Priya (Katihar). J oti Saroop, Shri (Ha thras) . 6upta, Shri Ram Ratan (Gonda). Jyotishi, Shri Jwala Prasad (SJgar). 8upta, Shri Shiv Charan (Delhi Sadar). K

Kabir, Shri Hamayun (Basirhat). H Kachhavaiya Shri Hukam Chand (Dewas). ' Hajarnavis, Shri R. M. (Bhandara). Kadadi, Shri Madeppa Bandappa Hansda, Shri Subodh (Jhargram). (Sholapur). Hanumanthiah, Shri K. (Bangalore Kajrolkar, Shri Sadoba Narayan City). (Bombay City Central North). Haq, Shri M. M. (Akola). Kakkar, Shri Gauri Shankar (Fateh- Harvani. Shri Ansar (Bisauli). pur). Hazarika, Shri J. N. (Dibrugarh). Kamath, Shri Hari Vishnu (Hoshanga- Heda, Shri Harish Chandra (Nizama- bad). bad). Kamble, Shri T. D. (Latur). (iv)

K-

M-contd. M-contd.

Masani, ~ M. R. (Rajkot). Mukerjee, Shrimati Sharda (Ralna- Masuriya Din, Shri (Chail). ,in) . Munzni, Shri David (Lohardaga). Matcharaju, Shri M. ~ . Murli Manohar, Shri (Balia), Mate, Shri Kure (Tikamgarh). Murmu, Shri SarkaI' (Balurghat). Mathur, Shri Harish Chandra (Jalore). Murthy, Shri B. S. (Amalapuram). Maurya, Shri B. P. (Aligarh). Murti, Shri M. S. (Anakapalle). Mehdi, Shri S. Ahmad (Rampur). Musafir, Shri Gurmukh Singh (Amrit- Mehrotra, Shri Braj Behari (Bilhaur). sar), Mehta, Shri Jaswantraj (Pall). Muthiah, Shri p. (TirunelveJi). Mehta, Shri Jashvantrai N. (Bhav- Muzaffar Husain, Shri N. (Morada- nagar) . bad). Melkote, Dr. G. S. (Hyderabad). Mengi, Shn Oopal Datt (Jammu and N Kashmir), Naidu, Shn V. Govindasamy (Tiru- Menon, Shri Panampilli Govinda vallur) . (Mukundapuram) . Naik, Shri D. J. (Panchmahals). Menon Shri V. K. Knshna (Bombay Naik, Shri Maheswar (Mayurbhanj). City' North). Nair, Shri N. Sreekantan (Quilon). Minimata, Shrimati Agamadas Guru (Baloda Bazar). Nail', Shri P. K. Vasudevan (Ambala- puzha). Mirza, Shri Bakar Ali (Warrangal). NaIlakoya, Shri Koyilat (Nominated- Mishra, Shri Bibhuti (Motihari). Laccadive, Minicoy and Amindivi Mishra, Shn Bibudhendra (Pun). Islands) . Mishra. Shri Mathura Prasad (Begu- Nambiar, Shri Ananda (Tiruchira- sarai) . paml. Misra, Dr. Udaikar (Jamshedpur), Nanda, Shri Gulzarilal (Sabarkan- Misra, Shri Mahesh Dutta (Khandwa). tha). Misra, Shri Shyam Dhar (l\firzapur). Naslmr, Shri P. S. (Mathurapur). Mohan Swaroop, Shri (PiJibhit:. Nath Pai, Shri (Rajapur). Mohanty, Shri Gokulanand (Bala- Nayak, Shri Mohan (Bhanjanagar). sore) . Nayar, Dr. Sushila (Jhansi). Mohiuddin, Shn Ahmed (Secundera- Nehru, Shri Jawaharlal (Phulpur). bad). Nesamony, Shri A. (Nagercoil). Mohsin, Shri F. H. (Dharwar South). Nigam, Shrimati Savitri (Banda). Morarka, Shri Radhyeshyam Ram- kumar (Jhunjhunu). Niranjan Lal, Shn (Nominated- Andaman and Nicobar Islands). More, Shri Krishnaji Laxman (Hat- kanangle). o More, Shri Shankarao Shantaram (Poona). Omkar Singh, Shri (Budaun). Oza, Shri Ghanshyamlal (Surendra- Muhammad Ismail, Shri (Manjeri), nagar), Mukane, Shri Yeshwantrao Martand- rao (Bhiwandi). p Mukerjee Shri H. N. (Calcutta Cen- Paliwal, Shri Tika Ram (Hindaun). tral). ' Pande, Shri Kashi Nath (Hata). (vi)

~o . &--contd. Pandey, Shri R. S. (Guna). Rai, Shrimati Sahodra Bai (Damoh). Pandey, Shri Sarjoo (Rasra). Raj Bahadur, Shri (Bharatpur). Pandey, Shri Vishwa Nath (Salem- Raja, Shri Chittaranjan (Junagadh). pur). Rajaram, Shri K. (Krishnagiri). Panna Lal, Shri (Akbarpur). Rajdeo Singh, Shri (Jaunpur). Pant, Shri K. C. (Naini Tal). Raju, Shri D. Balarama (Narasapur). Paradhl, Shri Bholaram (Balaghat). Raju, Dr. D. s. (Rajahmundry). Paramasivan, Shri S. K. (Erode). RajyaJaxmi, Shrimati Lalita (Auran- Parashar, Shri V. C. (Shivpuri). gabad). Patel, Shri Chhotubhai M. (Broach). Ram, Shri T. (Sonbarsa). Patel, Shri Man Sinh P. (Mehsana). Ram Sewak, Shri (Jalaun). Patel, Shri Nanubhai N. (Bulsar). Ram Singh, Shri (Bahraich). Patel, Shri Purllshottamdas R. Roam Subhag Singh, Dr. (Bikram- (Patan). ,anj) . Patel, Shri Rajeshwar (Hajipur). Ram Swarup, Shri (Robertsganj). Pati!, Shri Deorao Shioram (Yeot- Ramabadran, Shri T. D. (Cuddalore). mal). Ramakrishan, Shri P. R. (Coimba- Pati!, Shri J. S. (Jalgaon). tore) . Pati!, Shri Madhaorao Bhagwantrao Ramanathan Chettar, Shri (Karur). (Ramtek). Ramaswamy, Shri S. V. (Salem). Pati}, Shri S. B. (Bijapur South). Ramaswamy, Shri V. K. (Namakkal). Patil, Shri S. K. (Bombay City Ramdhani Das, Shri (Nawada). South). Rameshwaranand, Shri (Kamal). Pati!, Shri T. A (Osmanabad). Rampure, Shri Mahadevappa (GuJ- Patil, Shri V. T. (Kolhapur). barga). Pati!, Shri Vasantrao Lakhagounda Ramshekhar Prasad Singh, Shri (Chikodi). (Chapra). Patnaik, Shri Baishnab Charan Rananjai Singh, Shri (Musafirkhana). (Dhenkanal). Rane. Shri Shivram Rango (Bul- Pattabhi Raman, Shri C. R. (Kumba- dana). konam). Ranga, Shri N. G. (Chittoor). Pattnayak, Shri Kishen (Sambalpur). Ranga Rao, Shri R. V. G. K. (Chee- Pillai, Shri Nataraja (Trivandrum). purupalli) . Pott':k:itt, Shri S. K. (TeJlicherry). Ranjit Singh, Shri (Sangrur). Prabh"kor. Shri Naval (Delhi-Karol Rao, Shri P. Mamnanth (Medak). Dagh). Rao, Shri J. Ramrpathi (Karim- Pratap Singh, Shri (Sirmur). nagar). Prithvi Rei, Shri (Dausa). Rao, Shri Jaganatha (Nowrangpur). P,!:'i, Shri D D. (Kaithal). Rao, Shri S. V. Krishnamoorthy (Shimoga). :& Rao, Dr. K. L. (Vijayawada) Rao, Shr; E. Madhusudan (Mahbuba- Raghav?"I Shri A. V. (Badagara). bad). Ragh .d"Hh Singh, Shri (Varanasi). Rao, Shri J. B. Muthyal (Mahbub- n. : '.Irum.lluh. Shri Jr. (Guntur). nagar). (vii

B--<:ontd. S-contQ. Rao, Shri B. Rajagopaia (Srikaku- E',en, Dr. Ranendra Nath (Calcutta- lam). East). Rao, Shri J. Rameshwar (Gadwal). Sen, Shri Asoke K. (Ca!cutta-Nortla Rao, Shri M. Thirwnaia (Kakinada). West). Rattan LaI, Shri (Banswara). Sen, Shri Phani Gopa! (Purnea). Raut, Shri Bhoia (Bettiah). Seth, Shri Bishanchander (Etah). Rawandale, Shri Chudaman Ananda Sezhiyan, Shri Era (Perambalur). (Dhulia). Shah, Shri Manabendra (Tehri Garh- Ray, Shrimati Renuka (MaIda). wal) , Heddi, Dr. B. Gopaia (Kavali). Shah, Shri Manubhai (Jamnagar). Heddi, Shri Ravi Narayan (NaI- Shah, Shrimati Jayaben (Amreli) , gonda). Shakuntaia Devi, Shrimati (Banka). Reddiar, Shri R. V. (Tindivanam). Sham Nath, Shri (Delhi-Chandni Reddy, Shri C. L. Narasimha (Rajam- Chowk). pet). Shan1taraiya, Shri M. (Mysore). Reddy, Shri G. Narayan (Adilabad). Sharma, Shri Anant Prasad (Buxar). Reddy, Shri G. Yallamanda (Marka- Sharma, Shri Diwan Chand (Gurdas- pur). pur). Reddy, Shri K. C. (Chikballapur). Sharma, Shri K. C. (Sardhana). Reddy, Shri K. V. Ramakrishna Shashank Manjari, Shrimati (Pala- (Hindupur). maul. Reddy, Shri Y. Eswara (Cuddapah). Shashi Ranjan, Shri (Pupri). Reddy, Shri'IDati Yashoda (Kurnool). Shastri, Shri La! Bahadur (Allaha- Roy, Dr. Saradish (Katwa). bad). Roy, Shri Biswanath (Deoria). Shastri, Shri Prakash Vir (Bijnor). Shastri, Shri Rama Nand (Ramasane-- s highat). Sheo Narain, Shri (Bansi). Sadhu Ram, Shri (Phillaur). Shinde, Shri Annasaheb (Kopargaon). Saha, Dr. Sisir Kumar (Birbhum). Shivananjappa, Shri M. K. (Mandya). Sahu, Shri Rameshwar (Rosera). Shree Narayan Das, Shri (Dar- Saigal, Shri Amar Singh (Janjgir). bhanga). Samanta, Shri S. C. (TamIuk). Shrimali, Dr. K. L. (Bhilwara). Samnani, Shri Nazir Hussain (Jammu Shyam Kumari Devi, Shrimati (Rai- and Kashmir). pur). Sanji Rupji Shri (Nominated-Dadra Shyamshah, Shri Lal (Chanda) and g ~ Haveli). Siddananjappa, Shri H. (Hassan). Saraf, Sh:-i Sham Lal (Jammu and Siddhanti, Shri Jagdev Singh Kashmir) . (Jhajhar) . Sanna, Shri A. T. (Chatrapur). SiddiGh, Shri S. M. (Chamaraja- Satyabhama Devi. Shrimati (Jahana- nagar). bad). Sidheswar Prasad, Shri (N alanda). Satyanarayana, Shri Biddika (Par- Singh. Dr. Basant Narain (Hazari- vathipuram) . bagh) . Scindia, Shrimati ViJaya Raje (Gwa- Sin"h. Shn Ajit Pratap (PrataJl- lior) . garh) . (viii)

S-contd. S-contd. Singh, Shri Digvijaya Narain (Muzaf· Swaran Singh, Shri (Jullundur). farpur) .. Swell, Shri G. G. (Assam-Autono- Singh, Shri Jai Bahadur (Ghosi). mous Distri cts) . Singh, Shri Krishna Kanta (Maha- rajganj) .

Singh, Shri S. T. (Inner Manipur). Tahir, Shri Mohammad (Kishanganj). Singh, Shri Yuvraj Dutta (Shaha- Tar. Singh, Shri (Barmer). bad). Tantia, Shri Rameshwar (Sikar). Singha, Shri Goyinda Kumar (Mid- Thengondar, Shri M. G. (Nagpattl- napore). nam). Singha, Shri Yagnya Narain (Sun- Thevar, Shri V. Vairava (Thanjavur). dergarh) . Thimmaiah, Shri Dodda (Kolar). Singhvi, Dr. L. M. (Jodhpur). Thomas, Shri A. M. (ErnakuJam). Sinha, Shri Ballarsi Prasad (Mon- Tiwary, Shri Dwarka Nath (Gopal- ghyr) . ganj) . Sinha, Shrimati Ramdulari (Patna). Tiwary, Shri Kamal Nath (Bagaha). S1nhB, Shri Satya Narayan (Samasti- TiW'ary. Shri Ram Sahai (Khajuraho). pur). Tripathi, Shri Ram Sahai (Khajuraho). Sinha, Shrimati Tarkeshwari (Barh). Tripathi, Shri Krishna Deo (Unnao). Sinhasan Singh, Shri (Gorakhpur). Trivedi, Shri Uma Shankar (Mand- Sivappraghassan, Shri K. (Pond!- saur) . . cherry). Tula Ram, Shri (Ghatampur). Sivasankaran, Shri P. (Sriperumbu- dur). Tyagi, Shri Mahavir (Dehra Dun). Solanki, Shri Parvinsinh Natavarsinh (Kaira). u Sonavane, Shri T. H. (Pandharpur). Uikey, Shri M. G. (MandJa). Soundaram Ramachandran, Shrimati Ulaka, Shri Ramachandra (Koraput). T. S. (Dindigul). Umanath, Shri R. (Pudukkottai). Soy, Shri Hari Charan (Singhbhum). Udadhyaya, Shri Shiva Dutt (Rewa). Srinivasan, Dr. P. (Madras North). Utiya, Shri Buddhu Singh (Shahdol). Subbaraman, Shri N. M. R. (Madu- rai) . v Subramaniam, Shri C. (Pollachi). Subramanyam, Shri Tckur (Bellary). Vaishya, Shri Muldas Bhudardas (Sabarmati) . Sumat Prasad, Shri (Muzaffarnagar). Sunder Lal, Shri (Saharanpur). Valvi, Shri Laxman Vedu (Nandur- Surindra Pal Singh, Shri (Buland- bar). shahr) . Varma, Shri Manikyalal (Chittor- Surya Prasad, Shri (Bhind). garh). Swamy, Shri M. N. (Ongole). Varma, Shri Ravindra (Thiruvalla). Swamy, Shri M. P. (Tenkasi). Veerabasappa, Shri S. (Chitra- durga). Swamy, Shri M. V. (Masulipatnam). Veerappa, Shri Ramachander (Bidar). SW'amy, Shri Shivamurthy Siddappa (Koppal). Venkaiah, Shri Kolla (Tenali). (ix)

V-contd. W Venkatasubbaiah, Shri Pendekanti Wadiva, Shri N. M. (Seoni). (Adoni). Warior, Shri K. K. (Trichur). Venna, Shri Balgovind (Kheri). Wasnik, Shri Balkrishna (Gondia). Venn a, Shri Krishna Kunwar (Sul- tanpur) . y Venna, Shri Suraj Lal (Sitapur). Yadab, Shri Nagendra Prasad (Sita- Vidyalankar, Shri Amar Nath marhi). (Hoshiarpur) . Yadav, Shri Ram Harkh (Azamgarh). Vijaya Ananda, Maharajkumar (Visa- khapatnam). Yadav, Shri Ram Sewak (Bars Banki). Vijaya Raje, Shrimati (Chatra). Yadava, Shri Bhishma Prasad (Kess- Vimla Oevi, Shrimati V. (Eluru). ria). Virbhadra Singh, Shri (Mahasu). Yajnik, Shrl Indulal Kanaiyallll. (Ahmedabad) . Vlshram Prasad, Shri (Lalganj). Yashpal Singh, Shri (Kairana). Vyas, Shri Radhelal (Ujjain). Yusuf, Shri Mohammad (Siwan). LOR SABRA

The Speaker Sardar Hukam Singh The Deputy-Speaker Shri S. V. Krishnamoorthy Rae

Panel of Chairmen

Shrimati Renu Chakravartty Shri Surendranath Dwivedy Shri Thirumaia Rao Shri R. K. Khadilkar Dr. Sarojani Mahishi.

.. - ~ Secretary Shri M. N. KauI, Barrister-at-Law

(x) PARLIAMENTARY· COMMITl'EES

Busines9 A ~ Committee 1. Sardar Hukam Singh-Chairman 2. Shri S. V. Krishnamoorthy Rao 3. Shri Frank Anthony 4. Shri .Ramchandra Vithal Bade 5. Shri Bibhuti Mishra 6. Shri Priya Gupta '1. Shri IUlpur Singh 8. Shrimati T. Lakshmi Kanthamma 9. Shri Maheswar Naik 10. Shri Ananda Nambiar 11. Shri Purushottamdas R. Patel 12. Shri Shivram Bango Bane 13. Shri Satya Narayan Sinha 14. Shri Sinhasan Singh 15. Shri N. M. R Subbaraman. Committee of Prtrileres 1. Shri S. V. Krishnamoorty Rao-Chcdmwm 2. Shri Brij Raj Singh 3. Shri Saohindra Chaudhuri 4. Shri G. N. Dixit 5. Shri Hem Barua G. Shri Jwala Prasad Jyotishi 7. Shri Kapur Singh 8. Shrimati Sangam Laxmi Bai 9. Shri Harish Chandra Mathur 10. Shri H. N. Mukerjee 11. Shri Mahcswar N aik 12. Shri Shivram Rango Rane 13. Shri Asoke K. Sen 14. Shri Satya Narayan Sinha 15. Shri Indulal Kanaiyalal Yajnik.

Committee on Absence of ~ from the Sittings of the Bo_ 1. Shri R K. Khadllkar-ChaiTman 2. Shri B. Anjanappa 3. Shri B,,\I,,;hwar Singh 4. Shri Onkorlal &'rwa

(xi) (lI.ii)

•. Shri Tulshidas Jadhav 8. Shri Yogendra Jha 7. Shrimati Subhadra Joshi 8. Shri L. D. Kotoki 9. Shri P. Kunhan 10. 8hri Yamuna Prasad MandaI 11. 8hri Dhuleshwar Meena 12. Shri Man Sinh P. Patel . 13. Shri T. D. Ramabadran 14. Shri M. K. Shivananjappa 15. Shri T. Abdul Wahid.

Committee Oil Estimate! (1963-64)

1. Shri Arun Chandra Guha-Chairma" 2. Shri Joachim Alva 3. Shri D. Basumatari ol. Shri Brij Raj Singh 5. Shri Shree Narayan Das 8. Shri Pratap Keshari Deo 7. Shrimati Ganga Devi S. Shri A. K Gopalan 9. Shri S. Hansda 10. Shri Kanhu Charan Jena 11. Shri Yogendra Jha 12. Shri Anand Chandra Joshi 13. Shri M. Malaichami 14. Shri Manabendra Shah 15. Shri Bakar Ali Mirza 16. Shri K L. More 17. Shri Shankarrao Shantaram Mor, IS. Shri M. S. Murti 19. Shri D. J. Naik 20. Shri N. Sreekantan Nair 21. Shri P. K Vasudevan Nair 22. Shri Tika Ram PaliWal 23. Shri Naval Prabhakar 24. Shri K. Rajaram 25. Shri Bishwanath Roy 26. Shri Rameshwar Sahu 27. Shri Diwan Chand Shanna 28. Shri Hari Charan Soy 29. ShrI Tekur Subramanyam 30. Shrl N. M. Wadiwa. (xiii)

Commlttee OD Oo",eramellt A ~ 1. Shri R. R. Morarka-Chainnan 1. Shri S. C. Balakrishnan. 3. Shri Buta Singh 4. Shrimati Zohraben Akbarbhai ChaTda 5. Shri R. Mathu Gounder t. Shri Shiv Charan Gupta 7. Shri P. S. Nataralll Pilial. 3 Shri G. Yallamanda Redd7 t. Shri Sadhu Ram 111. Shri H. Siddananjappa 11. Shri Ajit Pratap Singh 12. Shrimati Ramdulari Sinha 13. Shri Sumat Prasad 14. Shri Sivamurthi Swami 15. Shri Ramacllandra Ulaka.

Committee OIl PettUOU 1. Shri M. Thirumala Rao-ChaiNll4n 2. Shri K. L. Balmiki 3. Shrimati Zohraben Akbarbhai Chavda 4. Shri Chuni La! 5. Shrimati Gayatri Devi t. 8hri J. N. Hazarika ., .Shri Narayan Sadova ItajroUr.1ol' 8. Shri P. Muthiah 9. Shri P. K. Vasudevan Nair 10. Shri S. B. Patil 11. Shri Rameshwaranand 12. Shri Prakash Vir Shastri 13. Shri Hari Charan Soy 14. Shri Ram Sahai Tiwar:r. 15. Shri Bhishma Prasad Yadava Committee OD Private Members' Bills and ReaolutJ_ 1. Shri S. V. Krishnamoorthy Rao----ChaiNll4n 2. Shri A. Shanker Alva 3. Shri S. M. Banerjee 4. 8hri Priya Gupta 5. Shri A.nsar Harvani I. ~ Hem Raj 7. Shri Tulshidas Jadav •. Dr. P. Mandal 8. Shri P. Muthiah (xiv)

)0. Shri Kashi Nath Pandey 11. Shrimati Sahodra Bai Hal 12. Shri Digvijaya Narain Singh U. Shri Pravinsinh Natvarsinh Solanki a. Shri R. Umanath lB. Shri Ram Sewak Yadav

Committee 011 Public Aeeotmtll (lHI-H) Lok Sabha 1. Shri Mahavir Tyagi...... chairman !. Shri Ramchandra Vittal Bade I. Shri S. C. Balakrishnan 4. Shri Bhakt Darshan •. Shri F. P. Gaekwad e. Shri Gajraj Singh Hao ,. Sardar KaPUI' Singh •. Shri R. K. Khadilkar t. Shrimati Maimoona Sultan :HI. Shri Mathura Prasad Mishra 11. Dr. Ranen Sen 12. Shri Prakash Vir Shastri llI. Shri Ravindra Varma 14. Shri P. Venkatasubbaiah II. Shri Vishram Prasad Rajya Sabha

18. Shrimati K. Bharathi 1'7. Shrimati Maya Devi Chettry 18. Shri B. D. Khobaragade 10. Shri Dahyabhai V. Patel 20. Shri S. D. Patil :11. Shri Sadiq Ali. 2!. Pandit S. S. N. Tankha Committee on SubordlDale LelislatlOll

1. Shri S. V. Krishnamoorty Rao-Chairmaft 2. Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad 3. Shri Ramc.-handra Vittal Bade 4. Shri Sachindra Chaudhuri 5. Shri Homi F. Daji 8. Shri M. M. Haq 7. Shri Harish Chandra Reda t. Shri Gauri Shanker Kakkar t. Shri R. R. Morarka (:fY)

10. S4ui. C. L. Narasimha Reddy 11. Shri H. Siddananjappa 1:1. Dr. L. M. Singhvi 13. Shri M. P. Swam)" 14. Shri Mahavir Tyagi 1'. Shri N. M. Wadiwa.

HOWIe Committee 1. Shri S. V. Krishnamoorthy Rao--Chairman 2. Shri Panna Lal Barupal 3. Shri Bhakt Darshan 4. Shri S. Hansda S. Shri Lahr! Singh 6. Shri Bakar Ali Mirza 7. Shri Mohan Swarup 8. Shri P. K. Vasudevan Nair 9. Shri S. K. Paramasivan 10. Shri Rajeshwar Patel 11. Shrimati Renuka Ray 12. Shri Pravinsinh Natavarsinh Solanlti. Joint Committee on Office:! ef Prvftt Lok Sabha 1. Shri G. N. Dixit-Chairman 2. Shri Rajendranath Barua 3. Shri M. L. Dwivedi 4. Shri N. R. Ghosh 3. Shri P. K. Ghosh 6. Shri M. M. Haq 7. Shri Harish Chandra Heda 8. Shri Paresh Nath KayaJ 9. Shri Jaswantraj Mehta 10. Shri Yuveraj Dulta Singh

Rajya Sabha 11. Shri G. RajagopaJan 12. Shri Braja Kishorc> Prasad Sinha Ill. Shri Hira Vallabha Tripathi 14. Shri K. V. Raghunatha Reddy 15. Shri Lokanath Misra. Soint Committee on Salaries and Allowances of Members of Parllamenf Lok Sabha 1. Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad 2. Shri Surendranath Dwivedy (xvi)

'3. Shri P. K. Ghosh •. Shri S. Hansda II. Shri Ananda Nambiar II. Shri D. D. Puri 7. Shri J. B. Muthyal Rao 8. Shri Satya Narayan Sinha 9. Shri Sinhasan Singh 10. Shri N. M. WadiwB. Ra;lIa Sabha 11. Shri S. M. Ghose 12. Shri A. D. Mani 13. Shri M. Govinda Reddy 14. Shri S. Channa Reddy 15. Kumari Shanta Vasisht. Rule! CommIttee 1. Sardar Hukam 5>ingh-Chairman 2. Shri S. V. Krishnamoorthy Rao 3. Shri Ramchandra Vithal Bade 4. Shri Laxmi Narayan Bhanja Deo 5. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty e. Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath 7. Shri Karni Singhji 8. Shri Dwarkadas Mantri 9. Shri F. H. Mohsin 10. Dr. Rajendra Kohar 11. Dr. Sarojini Mahishi 12. Shri K. C. Sharma 13. Shri Satya Narayan Sinha 14. Shri Amar Nath Vidyalankar U. Shri Radhelal Vyas. GOVERNMENT OF INDIA Members of the Cabinet Prime Minister, Minister of External Affairs and Minister ot Atomie JEnergy-Shri .rawaharlal Nehru. Minister of Home Affairs-Shri Gulzarilal Nanda. Minister of Finance-Shri T. T. Krishnamachari. Minister of Food and Agriculture-Sardar Swaran Singh. Minister of Law-Shri Asoke K. Sen. Minister of Defence-Shri Y. B. Chavan. Minister of Steel & Heavy Industries-Shri C. Subramaniam. Minister of Scientific Research & Cultural Affairs-Shri Humayun Kabir. Minister of Parliamentary Affairs-Shri Satya Narayan Sinha. Minister of Railways-Shri H. C. Dasappa. Ministers of State Minister of Works, Housing & Rehabilitation-Shri Mehr Chand Khanna. Minister of International Trade-Shri Manubhai Shah. Minister of Industry-Shri Nityanand Kanungo. Minister of Shipping in the Ministry of Transport & CommunicatiOn&- :8hri Raj Bahadur. Minister of Community Development and Cooperation-Shri S. K. Dey. Minister of Health-Dr. Sushila Nayar. Minister of Supply-Shri Jai Sukh Lal Hathi. Minister of State in the Ministry of External Affairs-Shrimati Lakshmi N. Kenan. Minister of Defence Production in the Ministry at 1 ~ K. Raghuramaiah. Minister of Mines & Fuel-Shri O. V. Alagesan. Minister of State in the Ministry of Food & Agriculture-Dr. Ram Subhag 'Singh, Minister of State in the Ministry of Home Affairs--Shri R. M. Hajarnavis. Minister of Irrigation and Power-Dr. K. L. Rao. Minister of Planning and Minister in the Ministry of Finance-Shri B. R. Bhagat. Deputy Ministers Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Scientific Research & Cultural Mairs- ,Dr. M. M. Das. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Railways-Shri Shahnawaz Khan. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Food & Agriculture-Shri A. M. Thomas. Deputy Minister in the Ministry at Railways--Shri S. V. Ramaswamy. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Transport and Communications-Shrl .Ahmed Mohiuddin. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Finance-Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha. (xvii) J383(Ai)LSD-2, (xviii)

Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Works, Housing and Rehabilitation-Shri P. S. Naskar. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Community Development and Coope- ration-Shri B. S. Murthy. I Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Education-Shrimati Soundaram Rama- chandran. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Defence-Shri D. R. Chavan. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Labour and Employment and for Plan- lling-Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Home Affairs-Shrimati M. Chandrasekhar. Deputy Minister in the Department Of Supply-Shri Jaganatha Rao. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting-Shri Sham Nath. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Heahh-Dr. D. S. Raju. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of External Affairs-Shri Dinesh Singh. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Law-Shri Bibhudhendra Misra. Deputy Minister in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs---Shri B. Bhagavati. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Community Development and Co-opcra- tion-Shri Shyam Dhar Misra. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Steel and Heavy Industries-Shri Prakash Chandra Sethi. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Labour and Employrnent-Shri Hatanlal Kishorilal Malaviya. Partiamentary Secretaries Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Food and Agriculturc-Shri Shinde. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of External Affairs-Shri D. Ering. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of External Affairs-Shl'i S. C. Jamir. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Irrigation and Power-Shri S. A. Mehdi. : Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Mines and Fuel-Shri Dodda Tbimmaiah. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Education-Shri M. R. Krishna. LOK SABIIA DEBATES

2

LOK SABHA I Shri Koya: I Shrimati Savitri Nigam' Monday. November 18, 1963/Kartika I Shri Maheswar Naik: 27, 1885 (Saka). Shri Mohan Swarup: I Shri D. C. Sharma: The Lok Sabha met at ELeven of the I Shri Vasudevan Nair: Clock. I Shri Balkrishna Wasnik: I Shri Ram Sewak Yadav: [MR. SPEAKER in the Chair] I Shrl Bishanchander Seth: I Sbri B. p. Yadava: MEMBER SWORN I Shri Dhaon: Mr. Speaker: Secretary may call I Shri Rameshwar Tantia: out the name of the Member who has I Shrimati Renuka Barkataki: come to make and subscribe the oath I Shri P. R. Chakraverti: or affirmation under the Constitution. I Shri BhaA"Wat lha Azad: I Shri Sidheshwar Prasad: I Shri Kolla Venkalah: Secretary: Shri Ku. Sivappraghas- I Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhuri: .an. Shri lIem Raj: I Shri Beda: Mr. Speaker: The Minister of Parlia- I Shri Indrajit Gupta: mentary Affairs may introduce the I Shri Vishwanath Pandey: Member to the House. I Shri Balgovind Verma: I Shrl Sarjoo Palldey: The Minister of Partiamentary Affairs (Shri Satya Narayan Sinha): I ~ ~~ Sir, I have greut pleasure in intro- Shrl Raghunath Singh: ducing to you, and through you to Shri K. C. PlUlt: the House, Shri Ku. Sivappraghassan, Shri Bibhuti Mishra: who has been returned to Lok Sabha Shrl Gulshan: from Pondicherry constituency. I Dr. Mahadeva Pra!llld: Shri Ku. Sivappraghassan (Pondi- cherry) . Will the Prime Minister be pleased ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS to state: Colombo Proposals (a) whether any further efforts + have been made by the Colombo Shri Yampal Sinrh: Powers to influence the Chinese Gov- r Shri Visbram Prasad: ernment to accept the Colombo pro- Sbri lIem Barua: posals; and Sbri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Shri Prakash Vir Shastri: (b) if so, the result thereof? Shri L. M. Singhvi: Sbrl S. M. Banerjee: The Minister of State in the Minis- , Shri Umanath: try of External Affairs (Shrimad Shrl Harish Chandrll Mathur: Lakshmi Menon): (a) The Crllvern- I Shrl P. C. Boroub: ment ot India are not aware of further Shri D. D. Mantri: efforts, if any, made by the Colombo I Shrl BalmikJ: Dowers to persuade the Chinese Gov- ·1. { Shri Sure.dra Pal Smp: ~ to accept the Colombo Pro- 3 OTal Answers NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Oral A ~

pasals in toto and without reserva- that the ChInese Prime Minister la tions in the same manner that the anxious, to visit Delhi for talks about Government of India had done. this matter and also that either the Colombo Powers or others are arrang- (b) Does not arise. ing an Afro-Asian meet and, if so, ha. the Prime Minister made it very clear to the Chinese Prime Minister, Mr. ~ tm'm'f ~ ~ . ~ Chou En-Iai, that he will be a most 1fiRik" ~ ~ ~ ~ .J "" unwelcome visitor here in our country '!'fi1 ~

~ ~ ~ ! ~ . ~ g'm, he has received any message from ;a"ij"n f"3M; BTrrr to come here is quite distinct frOID the question whether the Colombo ~ ~ ~

~ ~ ~ ~ f! Shrl Nath Pal: May I submit that it f

Shrl Jawaharlal Nehru: It is a little Mr. Speaker: Shri P. C. Borooah. difficult for me to state what import- Shri P. C. Borooah: What has been ance or significance is to be attached the reaction of the Colombo Powers to statements made in Ghana or in to the Chinese rej ection of their pro- 1he United Arab Republic. It is the posals describing them as an arbitrary interpretation of events; their hopes award? expressed. They may have some additional information or may not kave it. Mr. Speaker: That also I cannot allow. ~ ~ ~ IIlfT 'f>Ti"'P:'fT Shri Bhagwat Jha Azatl: May I ~ 'fit 'ifR ~ . ~ ~ ~ know if Government has got any information about any fresh proposal ~ ~ crT <;fT ~ t:;, 00 0 'flT.fr<1" ~ on the part of the Colombo Powers 'l"R if; ~ if ~ 1 ~, ~ flfi" ~ for any meeting in future to consider ~ <1"8'II"T it j ~ ~~ lfiW ~, this question? ~ ~ ~ ~ if; ....=t if mr ~ 'fi>r ~ (f'f.

America. The matter is under discus- Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: I will sion between the two Governments be the last man to accuse you, Sir. and the reaction of the U.S. Govern- We want to know, before the Agree- ment is awaited. ment was signed, which parts were (b) and (c). Do not arise. seen by the Prime Minister and which Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: Is it a parts were not seen by him, and how fact that before the Agreement was and by whom were those parts which signed, the ~ matter and issue he missed to see brought to his atten- was put up before the Prime Minister tion. in its entirety? The Prime Minister The Prime Minister, Minister of 'has been saying time and again that External Mairs and Minister of ·he saw it in parts and not as a whole, Atomic Energy (Shri JawaharIaI and, if so, may I know which parts Nehru): I hope I have dealt with the exactly he saw belore he signed the matter in the statement that I made Agreement and which parts he missed to the Lok Sabha on the last occasion. ilnd how and by whom were those I never read it as a whole. Some parts which he missed to see brought parts of it, some odd points, were to ~ attention later on? referred to me for my opinion and I Mr. Speaker: So many questions once or twice wrote a note about it have ~ mixed. that this does not appear to be desir- able--whatever the note was-and so Shri Bari Vlishnu Kamath: It is one. the points referred to me were con- The Prime Minister has been saying sidered by me on the spot, then and .that he did not see the Agreement as there. And I said that the matter was '" whole and that he saw it in parts. not considered by me as a whole with 'Now, let us know, precisely which all the papers. Now, as I said pre- parts he had seen before he signed viously, that was my fault that I did the Agreement and which parts he not go more deeply into it. But l missed and how and by whom were unfortunately I committed that fault, those parts which he missed to see brought to his attention later? Shri Bari Vlshnu Kamath: Is it a Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: A com- tact that our troops on the Himalayan frontier are being subjected, day in prehensive statement on the subject was made by the Prime Minister in and day out, to broadcasts by high- the Lok Sabha on the 14th August, powered Chinese transmitters and, if 1963. so, what attempts have been made by the Government or are being made Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: I know by the Government at the moment to the statement. He said that he saw counter that propaganda? it in parts, not as a whole. We want to know which parts he failed to Mr. Speaker: The han. Member says see before he signed the Agreement. that our troops are being iubjected to This is a very serious matter. The constant propaganda by the Chinese J\.greement was signed in all its transmitters. He wants to know -entirety. The Hous.. wants to know whether the Government of India are and the country wanls to know which also doing something to counteract parts he did not see, and how and by that, if this agreement is not togo whom they were 'Jrought to his through. nolict'. Shri JawaharIaI Nehru: I suppose Mr. Speaker: The "on. Memher has that what the hon. Member says is mixed up three Or four questions at correct. I have not listened to that, a time and he wants such details that is, the Chinese propaganda, but which it would b:' difficult at this it is pretty active, and they have got moment to answer. If I disallow him, strong transmitters for that purpose. he would cerbhl'l .iL13t accuse me. If he puts a clear otle:,tion covering one SbJJi. Hem Barna: They have 63 point, I would a l'u'", hi:n. transmitters all along the border. II OTal AnsweTs NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Oral Answen 13

Shri lawaharlal Nehru: That may ~ o ~ ~ ~ qUM be so. Some attempt is made in our broadcasting stations to deal with it. Q ~ ~ lliTT-fr "S!"nT lfi"r ... 11 j ~ -mil" ~ crt '3l1 mitter started functioning. ~ ",r momTT<11 ~ 1 f",riT ~ ~1 ~~ ro;r1 ~ AA lfoT m:

....n 'M'i!O(""'" ~~ ~ if, "Whether any modifications 1 ~ if '3l1 q'ffi ;;iT f"l"lR"lT gW 0!1T have been made therein." '3l1it ~ iffil '>11 ~ f'" <:"t qq. CfR ~ ~ ~ 0!1T ~ ~ ~ f'" Wl"- if>Tlf I ~ Cf'ffi ~ ~ 1 ",1m ll"RT ~ . ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ w:AT ~ .~ 3 1~ ~ 1 ~ ~ I ~ qci 1T f'" <:"t TTm it ;;rt ment will ultimately stand, ~ that lTr( ~, ~ '>1rm mffT Ambassador has said that he is hope- ful of an agreement being arrived at. ~ ~ . ~ ~

~ ifil PfQT ~ 'fT, W ~ it Shrimati Savitri Nigam: Since our m: need for a pOwerful transmitter ill if ~ ;;rtq ~ tm"T 'Q'R W ~ flFfT'f; great, and it is going to take some ~ 'f.'rt:in: '>tf q;: "fr"T wm:r ifoT ~ ;;mW'lT ~ ~ ~1 is not functioning now, and there is ifoT ;;m't 1ft ~ ~ - ;;rT it iRl'm fit; ~ ~ tfr I it ;;n;r-n 'lil""fr ~ f.t;ln 1fIIT I ~~ iRl'T ;jfT it ~ ~ fit; ~ '1ft'!" ~ . ~ ,q. ~ ~ ifoT ;;rcmr ~ ~ I ~~~~ ~ ~~ Q ~~ '" Itt .. 'f!<+U'" J~ : " ~ tiT, ~~ ~ it m"fT'li Mr. Speaker: Was anyone found o ~ ~~ ? guilty? That is the question of some hon. Members. ''IT ..... 'f!( ... ,... ~ ~ ~ ...n """'f!011'" ~~ "Wi ~ ll"iI" ~ lITPR lfR ~ f1 ;niT 11 mr<{t 'Tffift ~ ~ f't 'l1ft ~

duction, in the fields of safety engi- ~ . ~ I ~ ~ neering and in the modernisation of ~ it orffi' ~ ~~~ it ~ ~ I the Ordnance Factories, particularly ~ ~ ;;Tc it ~ ~

~ ~ m.: Cf

~ if.\" ~ ""Tf'f>" f;;r.r ~

*ype of assistance would be available, Shri Raghuramaiah: The assistance but the House will appreciate it is a would be invaluable in the sense that matter in which the Australian Gov- if we can modernise our methods. ernment have to take the final deci- we will improve our production. sion and inform us. Check-Post on Nepal Border Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know if the modernisation of the armament + factories to which the hon. Minister ~ g ~ Jha Azad: referred will be done by the Austra- Shrl D. N. Tiwary: lians or will it be our own project or Shri Vishram Prasad: a joint project? rShri P. C. Borooah: Shri R. G. Dubey: Shri Raghuramaiah: It has been ~ Bishanchander Seth: fl!lund that in certain matters of pro- I Shrl B. P. YadaTa: duction, they are slightly advanced. Shri Dhaon: We have therefore sought the advice Shri Chattar SiIIgh: of their experts to come here and 1Shri D. D. Mantri: advise us as to how to improve our Shri M. L. Dwivedi: own production methods. Shri S. C. Samanta: Shri B. K. Das: Shrl Indrajit Gupta: Has Govern- Shri J. B. S. BIst: ment explored the possibility of secur- Shri Basumatari: ing Australian technical assistance in lShri Sidheshwar Prasad: the matter of setting up any of the new ordnance :tactori{!s which were Will the Prime Minister be pleased proposed to be set up? to state: Shrl Raghuramaiah: That was not the object of the visit. (a) whether Nepal Government have requested India to increase the Shri Krishnapal Singh: I would like number of its border check-posh; and to know why Australia has been chosen for such assistance as Austra- (b) if so, the reason therefor? lian industries are rather new; why have we not tried to get assistance from other countries which have older The Minister of State ia the Mims- Defence Industries and are advanced try of External Mairs (Shrimati in this field? Lakshmi Menon): (a) No, Sir.

Shri Raghuramaiah: We can cer- (b) Does not arise. tainly learn from whichever country has improved methods of production Shri D. N. Tiwary: May I know and Australia is a country which has whether Government is aware that in certain matters improved its smuggliJ!.g from Nepal to India has methods of production. been stopped but smuggling from India to Nepal is going on? Are not Shri S. M. Banerjee: I want to know more check-posts necessary there? whether they would give us advice in the matter of filling or in the matter Shrimati Lakshmi Menon: This of manufacture of smail arms also? question is about the number of border check posts; the question really Smi Raghuramaiah: We have sought deals with the points of entry. It is technical assistance in regard to the not necessary to have more. There is Jatter ca tegory also. no question of increasing the number of border check-posts. There has been Shri D. N. Tiwary: In terms of an increase in the number of o ~ money what will this assistance mean? of entry into Nepal and India. 21 Oral Answers KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Oral AnstDeTS

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ f.f; ledge of the Government or not? CaN flnr'" and other materials are smuggled from ~ iMr1if it 'iffi";rT .iTh 'r<:: 'I1T J;fR Surzand to Jaleswar. It is in my ~ 61 oirh

Portuguese Administration. This towards the liberation of these terri- report stated that "Goa and depen- tories. dencies were no longer under the administra tion of Portugal, having Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I am unable been nationally united with India". to say whethre there is any Indian In accordance with this resolution, the employed in that particular depart- future issues of the UN. Demographic ment. Year Book should indicate the status of Goa, Daman and Diu correctly as Shri S. M. Banerjee: May I know aaving been nationally re-united with whether, apart from inviting theiI India. India's Permanent Represen- attention to thi" matter-and they have tative to the U.N. has taken up this agreed to correct this-any protest has matler with U.N. Secretariat on the been lodged and whether all these II bove lines. copies of the Year Book showing Goa, Daman and Diu as Portuguese terri- Shri Indrajit Gupta: Am I take it tories are going to be banned in thie that our Government is satisfied with country and whether any :J.ction has this type of technical explanation that been taken to ban those books? this Year Book was prepared prior to .!lOme resolution which was adopted Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: The mere long ago, although the liberation of fact that all this action was taken these territories took place two years shows that prolest was lodged and ·before, and therefore they arc satis- then an enquiry look place. and lhen fied with this explanation that the this action was taken. Year Boonk should come out, in the present· edition of which these terri- Shri S. M. Banerjee: What about tories are still listed as Portuguese the b:m·! provincell? Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: We do no! The Prime Minister and Minister of propose to ban it. It does not help External Affairs and Mi.ister of Ato- anybody to ban the book now. JDic Eaeru (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): I do not know what the hon. Member Shri S. M. Banerjee: rosc- means by "satisfied". Satisfied with what? We have placed our case; we Mr. Speaker: Order, order. He has have given the explanation. It may put the question. The answer is "No, aot be a wholly satisfactory explana- the Government is not prepared to put tion. There the matter ends. They a ban." The answer has come. Whe- are correcting their mistake. ther it will satisfy the hon. Member. is another matter. Shri IB.draJit Gupta: TOse- Shrl S. M. Banerjee: I want to sub- Mr. Speaker: That is what has been mit that that document challenges the said: that a resolution had been pas- integrity of our country. I would aed; that matter was put before the only seek your protection and I would United Nations, and they will correct humbly request you to advise the Gov- it. ernment properly that they should also follow the same thing. Slui Indrajit Gupta: What I am lInxious to know is that whether in Mr. Speaker: I am not :J.n adviser that section of the United Nations Sec- to the Government! Shri Nath Pai. retariat, which is responsible for the preparation of this Demographic Year Shri Nath Pal: In view of the fact Book, there are any Indians on the that this is not the first ttm!! that j- ~ Irtal! or whether their staf'J' is dominat- United Nations Demographic Year ed by representatives of certain coun- Book Department has been remiss in k"iea who are not very well disposed regard to subjects which involTe mat- Oral Answers KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Oral Answers

teri of vital interest to India-touch- Shri Bem Ba;U.l: In view of the int upon OUr sovereignty-as happen- fact that this J ~ Year Book ed in the caSe of Kashmir bemg shown was published even after the resolu- something very diiferent,-will the tion was adoptt:d, will it be wrong for Government of India think of some- Us to think that there are some people thing more effective than lodging a in the U.N.O. who have failed to com- protest, something like a temporary promise themselves with the basic fact withholding of our subscription to the that these one time relics of Portuguese United Nations. because this is not the imperialism are now a part of our fint time that this indifference has country; if so, may I know whether been shown to India? the Government have tried to take steps to make these people see the real Mr. Speaker: That is n suggestion light? for action. Shri Nath Pai: He is replying. Mr. Speaker: Was it after the reso- am asking what they propose to do to lution or before? he more effective. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: It was done Shri JawaharlaJ Nehru: We do not before, I think. Then, I am quite sure propose definitely to do what the hon. that in a large organisation like the Member suggests. That means not United Nations consisting of thousands PIlyint our subscription; that means ul- of persons there are many persons who timately getting out of the United strongly disagree with the hon. Mem- NatioOi. ber's opinion about Indian matters or my opinion on Indian matters. As Shri Nath Pai: Not at all. (inter- these things come up we take them ruption). I meant, temporarily, an up. How can we take steps to get eft'ective action. Make your member- them dismissed or make them have an ship more effective and more nonour- enquiry made as to who are pro- able (Interruption). Indian or who are anti-Indian? Shrl Hem Barua: Sir, T used a 111'. Speaker: Order, 8rder. Shri wrong word "compromise", it should Tt'idib Kumar Chaudhuri. be "reconcile". Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhury: May I know to which particular year this Shri H. N. Mnkerjee: ~ assum- Demographic Year Book ~ ~, certainly not admitting. the bona lides of the United Nations personnel Shrimatl Lakshmi Menon: 1962; it is in regard to this mistake, may I know given there. if Government have got an assurance that at least in the interim period a ..n- ~ ~ : 'flIT ~ if;t ~ J correction slip will be incorporated on iITCf it ~ ~ R; ~ n;if; ~ fom: every single volume of this book put out on circulation? fuf'r Ri'ffir ': ~ R; q11if; J~ i'ff,' ~ ~ '!Un: if><: ~ ;rrr ? Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I do not know whether such an assurance was ..n- ~ ~ : ~ W

Shri Nath PaI: Sir, I was completely Shri S. M. Banerjee: It appears that misunderstood when I said "withhold in all three public sector projects it your contribution" does not amount to has not been implemented. I would resigning. The Soviet Union has not like to know what is the specific reason paid the contribution. I want the Gov- for this not being implemented in thes\!' ernment of India to be a member, but three public sector projects? function there more honourably and effectively than we do. Shri R. K. MaIvlya: Out of a total of over 1,41,000 workers it has been Steel Wage Board implemented in respect of over 1,36,000 workers. It has been implemented in -S. Shri S. M. Banerjee: Will the respect of 96 per cent. of the workers Minister of Labour and Employment and only in respect of 4 per cent. 01 be pleased to state: the workers it has to be implemented. (a) whether the Steel Wage Board Mr. Speaker: The question was whe- has submitted its report; ther there is any special reason why (b) if not, the reasons for the delay; this has not been implemented in thele and three public enterprises when it had been applied and implemented in such (c) whether re<:ommendations fOr a large number of industrial units. interim relief have been ~~ The Minister of State 1-. the Minllll- in all steel plants? try of Labour and Employme.t (Shri The Deputy Minister ill the Ministry Hathi): These recommendations are of Labour and Employment (Shri R. K. not implemented with regard to Class Malviya): (a) The Board has made 1 and Class 2 officers and the work- recommendations for an interim wage charged employees because they say increase, and its final report is await- that this recommendation would nDt ed. apply to them.

\ b) the issues before the Board need Shr'i Indrajit Gupta: Is it a fact that detailed investigation. The Board is the recommendation for interim relief trying to complete the work as early has not been implemented til) ]lOW in as possible. the Kulti works of the Indian Irl)n and Steel Company? Although ~ :nal. (c) The recommendations have been ter was referred back to the Wage generally implemented. A few points Board and the Wage Board has said for clarification have been raised and that it ~ o be applied, the company these are being considered by the still refuses to do it. What action Board. does Government propose to take \1I this matter? Shri S. M. Banerjee: The han. Minis- ter stated that generally it has been Shri Hathi: With regard t:> the implem2nte:d. May I know which are Kulti workers, it has not been imple- those units which have not impJement- mented on the ground that it does not ed the recommendation for an interim form part of the process of steel manu- wage increase both in the public sec- facture. The question was referred tor and in the private sector' back to the Wage Board. They said that though this is not ~. ~o Shri R. K. Malvlya: It is with re- mendation they would advise that this gard to a small number of workers should be made applicable;n their that this recommendation has not been case also. We have informed the com implemented and they are in the pany accordingly. public sector. It has not been imple- mented by RourkeJa, Bhilai and Shri A. P: Sharma: Is there allY Durgapur. time-limit fixed for the submission of 29 Oral Answers KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Oral Answers 30 the report by the Board and, if so, by (l¥) 1 ~~, iJT lfllT '3"

...:ft ~ ~ mrrrof o;fi<: "C"")<;r O ~ ( 'sf) >rr.f ~ ~ I 'fAT "P-f i'fCf'.n:1lf ~ ~ ~ to go into the matter. ~ ~ .. ", ihrrf<:

I P..lT I ~ ~ ~~ srfi'tWT ~ I (P..lT ~ I ~ II1 :

\ P..ll lfo ~o !{lim: ~ 'f>n:1lf ~ ~ ~ I J P..lT ~~ ~ 1fiT1ffi: ~ ~ 1 ~ liT ,,.:ft1< ;:f;fr ;:Ifr *""1 P..lT irm'iT qm ;flirT: P..lT m.n'liT: ~ o;rm 'fif,T i ~ ~AT

'1 t 'i, ~ if, ifTTif",'f 5 ~ 'l'<'m ;J. \9 ~ it ~ if; ~ ?f l1"fr "i'fR ;fT \f.'1T ~~ f", : P..lT 14M'd WI ~ : ~. !ITf"f crT o;rm ;r@ '3"0 1T ~ I ~ lfllT ~

It qiWr ~A 'f; 'ffiI" ~ ~ 'fro ~ o..iI' ~o lio ~ ~ ~ ~ 1 l ,;{t<: ~ I1I'T ~ ~ ~ g{ !!ff I 'f; ~ i:f ~ f'fi" ~ >I1I'T ~ '3'0'(fT I 1j- 1:!q ;;IFr'fT ~ ~ f'fi" 'f<:'f.TT 'li't ~11 it ~ 'flf(!T t FF ~ f

Shri Y. B. Chavan: There is 1.0 in, '3QiIT J ? formation. o..iI' ~ ~ if.!" ~ If>ll:T Shri Nath Pai: Regarding the alleg· ed absence of any intrusions from the ~ f", 'Wlfr ~11 l'fm '!T'm, ~ I1 If.;rT I Shri Sidheshwar Prasad: ll'f,R« if !f5T ~ l:ff, ~.~ ~ ;n(f[ I ~ L Shri P. C. Borooah:

~ ;;rTifilT ~ t f'fi" ~ 1 'fi"[<:Uf 'fln Will the Minister of Plallnlng be .~ I ~ 'fR it 'T '!TiT, 1:!q 'ffi1 ill ~ it pleased to state:

'l;ffifT ~, 'TV'! 6lfTft ;;ft ~ fi:r ~ ~ (a) whether any review of the work Wr ~, 'fln ~ 'I1T AA 'fi"[ 5 ~ ~ of the State Planning Boards has been ~~ made; (b) whether the State Boards are o..iI' 4~ 1 ~1I : AA ~ ~ associated with the implementation of fif; ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I the State Plans; and

(c) whether it is a fact that T!.ost Shri Nath Pai: What did the han. of the State Plans included for 1962-6. Minister mean in reply to my ques- have not been executed in most of the tion? It is not a question of interpre- States and if so, the reasons therefor? tation. Has the threat in any way lessened during the past few months or The Deputy Minister in the Ministrr does it continue to the same t'xtent as of Labour and Employment and for it did? I would like to know what his Planning (Sbri C, R. Pattabhl Raman): , reading is. (a) No, Sir,

Shri Y. B, Chavall: It depends up- (b) State Planning Boards, where- ,on the assessment of the particular ever they exist, are advisory bodies. situation. It is rather very difficult to make any firm assessment of the Chi- (c) No, Sir. nese intentions. That is Why I say that it depends upon how we ',ssess Shri Surendranath Dwivedy: What the situation as it changes from time is the actual function and scope of the to time, State Planning Boards and has the 33 Ora! Answers KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Cha! Answers 34

Planning Commission laid down any to mean that, representation will be pattern for the composition of the given to the non-official element also, State Planning Boards? may I know if the Government has in- formation that the boards that have 8hri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: Actu- been constituted in the States have ally, the formation of these is stressed given them representation and, if so, in the Third Plan itsel!. In addition, to what extent? in March 1962 the then Deputy Chair- man had written to all the Chief 8hri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: We are Ministers about it. Really, the idea is following it up. We are making en- to have a body which will be advisory quiries and are all the time getting in- to keep in touch with the need for formation with regard to their func- long-term planning and questions tioning. More than that I am not able arising from the establishment of to say now. democratic institutions at district and block levels as also to consider the im- Shri S. N. Chaturvedi: May I know portant role of State plans in national if these State boards are only going plans. to be advisory in the matter of draw- ing up the plans or are they going to Shri 8urendranath Dwivedy: I want- make any recommendations or gg ~ oed to know whether it is the tions fOr their implementation and exe- advice of the Planning Commission cution also? that with the State Boards non-officials should also be associated and that they Shri C. R. Pattabhi Ramall: AI; I may also accept positions, such as, said, it is felt that in keeping with the chairmanship etc. need for long-term planning, the im- portance of State plans vis-a-vis the Pattabhi Shri C. R. RaDlaB: national plan, questions arising from Throughout the endeavour was to the establishment of democratic insti- keep it flexible. There is no rigidity tutions and the growing complexity of about it. It is left to the State to man development problems, a planning the Planning Board. machinery should be there.

Dr. L. M. Singhvi: In all the States Shri S. C. Samanta: May I knoW' have the State Planning Boards not whether any suggestion came to the yet been constituted and, it there are Planning Commission that a review any such States, what steps are being should be made every now and then of taken to see that they are constituted theSe planning bodies as well as of with all due despatch? the advisory bodies that are being mentioned? Shrl C. R. Pattabhi Raman: If I may say so, it will be easier for me to say Shrl C. R. Pattabhl Raman: That is that in the Punjab, Maharashtra, also envisaged. Orissa and Andhra Pradesh they have some kind of planning bodies func- ..n ~~ rn ~ 1 ~~ tioning. Most of the other States are considering it. The whole matter came m

Bhri Sham Lal Saraf: In view of ~ .0 Uo """': '1hR'rT f'MRT the fact that the hon. Minister has said that these boards function as ad- 9;!11<'f it mf ~ $ fo/R'T m sf ~, visory bodies which I understand, is ~ ~ 'fiT '$fiir"R ~ ~ ;;rr;r 35 Ora! Answers NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Ora! Answers Dr. SaroJini Mahishi: May know ~ ~ Q ~ ~ ;ru t 'iff rorr- ~ <''T mT ~~ ~ '!>T11 orr. ~ ~ 'if"f ,~ ~, "'Ifrli ~ ~ ~ ifT ' ~ ~ . ? Chief Minister of the State is the De- puty Chairman? If it is a fact, may ..n ~o ~I : lffl: 'f.IT!Iffi "fTTT'(iIT i know whether the Government are .0 proposing to follow this worthy exam- '!>T ::;rr

Aircraft Factory in Delhi ~~ ~ ~~ + fIN ~ ,,~ ~ r Shri Bade: Shri Ramanathan Chettiar: May I Shri B. P. Yadava: know whether this manufacturing unit Shri Dhaon: will be located outside Delhi or in J Shri Bishanchander Seth: Delhi? -9. Shri Buta Singh: Shri Bibhuti Mishra: Mr. Speaker: It has been answered. ( Shri Subodh Hansda: Next Question. Shri S. C. Samanta: Border Raids by Pakistan L Shri Mohan Swarup: + Will the Minister of Defence be Dr. L. M. Singhvi: pleased to state: Shri Prakash Vir Shastri: Shri Mohan Swarup: (a) whether it is a fact that Govern- f Shri Raghunath Singh: ment are considering a proposal to set Shri P. C. Borooah: up an aircraft factory in Delhi; Shri Yashpal Singh: (b) if so, whether in public sector Shri Bishanchander Seth: ,or private sector; Shri B. P. Yadava: Shri D. D. Mantrl: (c) the total capital investment on Shri Ramchandra U1aka: this factory; and Shrimati Renuka Ray: (d 1 the tYPe of components this fac- Shri D. C. Sharma: tory will manufacture'! Shri Vishram Prasad: *10. ~ Shri Onkar Lal Berwa: The Minister of Defence Prodnctioll Shri Gokaran Prasad: in the Ministry of Defence (Shri Shri Umanath: .Raghuramaiah): (a) No, Sir. Shri S. M. Banerjee: Shri Bibhuti Mishra: (bl to (d). Do not arise. Shrimati Savltrt Nigam: Shri Kapur ~ 'if! ~ . ~ 'ifnr ~ GOff # Shri Narasimha Reddy: ;;rrf ,it fif; f?:("'I't # n;l:0f,W rf;v,r ~ Shri Gulshan: , Shri Daljit Singh: >IT Ttf ~ li OfT'Br 'ifiWlf ?: fir. 'f'lT Shrl A. p. Sharma: l1fT1Ff ~ f'f.

drawn to a recent news-item emanat- ernment propose to increase this aJlot- ing from London to the effect that the ment in view of the additional requirc' Chinese Government is monitoring ments on account of the Emergency? publicity directives of the Indian Ministry of External Affairs to Indian The Minister of DefenCe (Shri Y. B. Missions abroad; and Chavan): (a) Yes, Sir; there is con- siderable shortage of family accommo- dation at present. (b) if so, the steps taken to counter- act Chinese action? (b) Accommodation is being provid- ed to the extent possible by additional The Minister of State iB the Minis- hirings and requisitions and construc- try of External Affairs (Shrimatl tion of fresh accommodation by Gov- Lakshmi Menon): (a) Yes, Sir. A ernment. During the years 1959-60 to apokesman of the Ministry of External 1962-63 Rs. 15.42 crores have been Affairs explained on September 25 (on spent for the provision of married the day the newspaper report accommodation. Since the emergency appeared) that the implication in the projects costing approximately Rs. 6·50 rejXlrt that some secrct code used by crores have been released fOr execu- the Ministry of External Affairs had tion. been broken was incorrect. The 8pokesman explained that the refe- (c) An amount of approximately rence was to ordinary news transmis- Rs. 4 crores is expected to be spent sions sent to our missions abroad in during the current financial year. In open morSe code through normal com- view ot the higher priority projects mercial channels. These transmissions which are immediately required it Is can be picked up by anyone and the not possible to do better this year but Chinese have, in fact, been monitoring is hOPed to make a bigger alloca- them for many years. it tion for this in the next financial year. (b) Since no secret code is involved in t.hese transmissions, the question of Asian Broadcasters' Co.tcrence taking steps to counteract Chinese Shrl Bibkuti Mishra: action in the matter does not arise. Shri P. R. Chakraverti: rShri Sidheshwar Prasad: Quarters for Army Personnel • Shri D. D. Purl: If.. i Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhuri: Shri Bishanchander Seth: '13 Shri A. V. Raghavan: .L Shri Pottekkatt: Shri B. p. Yadava: Shri DbaOlI: lShrl Raghunath Singh: Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to state: Will the Minister of Information and Broadcastblg be pleased to state: (a) whether there is an acute scar- city of family quarters for allotment (a) whether it is a fact that the to officers and J awans in the armed fifth Asian Broadcasters' Conference forces; was recently held in Seoul;

(b) if so, the steps Government (b) if so, whether a proposal to have taken to provide more family form a union of Asian Broadcasters quarters; and came up for discussion; and

(c) the amount sanctioned for this (c) the decision taken in regard purpose for 1963-64 and whether Gov- thereto? Written Answers NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Written Answers 44

The Minister of lnformatioD and nationals were issued during the BroadcastiJlg (Shri Satya NaraylUl period July 1, 1962-when the Com- Sinha): (a) and (b). Yes, Sir. monwelth Immigrants Act was intro- duced-to September 27, 1963. The (c) The national broadcasting orga- number of applicants for Employment nisations present at the Fifth Asian Vouchers during this period totalled Broadcastcrs' Conference resolved 1,35,710. that an Asian Broadcasting Union should be established as from 1st July, 1964 subject to the approval of the ultimate authorities to whom they are responsible in their respective countries. This Government have still to consider this resolutio'l.

Indian EmIgrants to U.K.

r Shrl Subodh Hansda: r,';'1 ;r, , ~ ~ '-ITl)"!' q"T ~ 'i:T .,FRT ;r, ,{.;rim) (a) whcth2r it is a fact that recent- ly there was a large scale exodus of if; Frl1h ~ ;P:q.''oT ij m;'fl1 f;;ui";r 'P skilled workcrs from India to UK.; f;-wr 'ffi f':; "-T'1"7 (b) if so, whether such exodus will be allowed to continue; (l"[) ~ i':T, efT '1lTT F"lj-lT j 9.111 If'!lT ~, (c) whether it has become easy to get employment vouchers from U.K. under the U.K. Immigrants Act; and ~ ~ ~ J;I;,Fen , 1~ (d) if so, the number of Indians I{lI'r ("-lr ~ : (9. ~j . \ 13) . who applied and got it since the Im- l1T'Rf ""'IT' ~ f"l""FT'iR ~ I migrants Ad came into force? Sino-Pak Border DemancatioD. The Deputy Minister in the Ministry of External Affairs (Shri Dinesh r Shri D. C. Sharma: Singh): (a) No, Sir. As against Shri P. C. Borooah: passports for thc U.K. issued to 30,251 I Shri P. R. Chakraverti: Indian nationals during the year end- *17. i Shri Balkrishna Wasnik: ing 30th June, 1962-, passports were I Shri Ramsewak Yadav: issued to only 3,758 Indian nationals I Shri Sarjoo Pandey: (excluding wives and children) during Shri R. Barua: the year ending the 30th June, 1963. l Shri Koya: (b) Docs not arise. Will the Prime Minil;ter be pleased to state: (e) No, Sir. (a) whether U.N. has been apprised (d) According to statistics issued by of the China-Pakistan move to erect the British Ministry of Labour, Em- demarcation pillars on the boundary ployment Vouchers to 20,317 Indians of Sinkiang and the north-western 45 Written Answl):"s KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKAl Written AnsweTs 46

part of Kashmir now under Pakistan's water supply, fair price shops, illegal occupation and separate pro- medical facilities etc. tests have been lodged with Pakistan and China; and (ll) protect the villagers against harassment and attacks by (b) if so, their reaction thereto? hostile Nagas, and The Minister of State in the MinIs- (iii) deny hostile Nagas their supply try of External Affairs (Shrlmatl of food, money etc. whiCh they Lakshmi Menon): (a) Yes, Sir. obtain by extortion from the villagers. A COPy of letter dated 7th October, 1963, addressed by India's Penn anent (b) Total non-recurring expenditure Representative to the United Nations -Rs. 258 lakhs. to the President of the Security Council is placed on the Table of the Total recurring expenditure-- House. Enclosures to this letter con- Rs. 112 lakhs. lIist of copies of our protests lodged witlh the Governments of the People's Republic of China and Pakistan. (c) A resolution was passed by the Nagaland Interim Body in its session [Placed in LibTClTY. See No. LT-1819/ 63.J . in May 1963 that, if the situation did not improvE' as a result of the (b) In accordance with its practice, amnesty, the villages should be the Security Council circulated the remodelled into larger centres to pro- letter to Members of the Security tect the villagers from harassment of Council No reply has been received the hostiles. trom the Governments of the People's Republic of China Or Pakistan. Demarcation of Ra,iasthan-West Pakistan Border Regrouping of Villages In Nagaland Shri Balkrishna Wasnik: r Shri Swell: rShri Vishram Pra'lad: Shri Surendra Pal Singh: *18. J I Shri Bhagwat .Jha Azad: I Shri Rlshang Keishing: Shri D. N. Tiwary: l Shri Raghunath Singh: ~ S. M. Baner,iee: Shri Umanath: Will the Prime Minister be pleased Shri Bishanchander Seth: to state: Shri B. P. Yadava: Shri Dhaon: (a) whether the scheme for re- .19., Shri Maheswar Naik: grouping of villages in Nagaland has Shrimati Savitri Nigam: been put into operation; I Shri p. K. Deo: I Shri Sidheshwar ~ (b) the total estimated expenditure I Shri P. R. Cbakraverti: for implementing the sc'hemp; and I Shri Mohan Swarup: I Shri Sham Lal Sara': (el whether the "chern,' has the l Shrl It. S. Tiwary: approval of the people of Nagaland?

The Minister of State in the Minis- Will the Prime Minister be pleased try 01 External Aft'airs (Shrimati to state: Lakshmi Menon): (a) Hemodelling of villages has been taken up starting (a) whether there has recently bE'en with a few villages, with a view to a meeting bE'tween the officers of the Governments of India and Pakistan for (i) .develop model villages by pro- the authentication of the maps demar- viding amE'nities such as schools, c3ting the international boundary 47 Written Answers NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Written Answers

between Raiasthan and West Pakistan· Supersonic Fighter Aircraft and ' Shri Raiiiachandra Ulaka: (b) if so, the result of the meeting? rShri N. R. Laskar: t2I. ~ Shri Dhuleshwar Meena: The Minister of State in the MInis- I Shrimati Savltri Nigam: try of External Mairs (Shrimati L Shri p. C. Borooah: Lakshmi Menon): (a) and (b). Yes Sir; the strip maps prepared Will the Minister of Defence be after the demarcation of the inter- pleased to state: national boundary between Rajasthan and West Pakistan, were ratified at (a) whether any decision has been Karachi on the 26th and 27th Septem- taken by Government regarding the ber, 1963. The plenipotentiaries of joint production of supersonic fighter both the countries authenticated the aircraft with the mutual co-operation signatures of their Surveyors General of U.A.R. and Indian team of experts; on eaclt of the 1240 map sheets. and

(b) if so, the nature thereof? Provident Fnnd Contribution The Minister of Defence Production r 8hri D. D. Mantri: In the Ministry of DefenCe (Shri I Shri S. M. Banerjee: Raghuramaiab): (a) No, Sir . • ZO. ~ 8hrl Bade: I 8hri Kachhavaiya: (b) Does not arise. I Shri Indrajit Gupta:

Will the Minister of Labour and "!swar Pathshala" In East PakistaD, Employment be pleased te state: r Shri p. R. Chakraverti: (a) whether Government have in- 1 Shri Sidhesbwar Prasad; creased the rate of provident fund ·22. ~ Sbri D. D. Puri: contribution for more industries from 'I Sbri Onkar Lal Berwa: the 31st October, 1963; and 1 Shri Gokaran Prasad: L Shri Raghunath Singh: (b) if so, the details of the indus- tries involved? Will the Prime Minister be pleased to state: The Deputy Minister In the Ministry (a) whether it is a fact that the East of Labollr and Employment and for Pakistan Government have given Planulng (Shrl C. R. Pattabhi sanction to forcible occupation of Raman): (a) Yes. The compulsory "Iswar Pathshala" a premier Educa- rate of provident fund contributions tional Institution of the Hindus in under the Employee's Provident Commi1a. by Pakistani nationals; Funds Act, 1952 was increased from 6t per cent to 8 per cent of basic (b) if so, the facts of the case; and wages, dearness allowance and retain- ing allowance, if any, in the establish- (c) whether the Deputy High Com- ments employing fifty or more persons missioner of India stationed in Dacca, in 18 more industries from the 1st has visited Commilla and sent any November, 1963. report?

(b) The details of the industries The Deputy Minister in the Minis- are given iR the statement laid on the try of External Afta.ir.9 (Shrl Dlnesh Table of the House. [Placed in Singh): (a) The forcible occupation Library, See No. LT-1818/63]. of Iswar Pathshala was not sanctioned 49 Written Ans1J)Ci:'s KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answers

by the East Pakistan Government, but in the near future. Arrangements for nnce then that Government has the dubbing of films into foreign requisitioned the premises thus closing languages, including the major langu- down the Institution. ages in use in Africa and West Asia, are being undertaken on a wider basis. (b) and (c). Our Deputy High Com- The opening of new information posts missioner has not visited Comilla him- in parts of Africa as yet uncovered is .elf for this purpose. However, he under consideration in the light of the has reported that during the months views expressed at the recent Confer- ot August and September members of ence of Heads of Indian Missions in the majority community forcibly Africa and West Asia. occupied portions of Iswar Pathshala building by assaulting members of its Newsreel on C.P.I. Procession in Delhi staff and the governing body. On October 2nd, 1963, they also pillaged r Shri ~1 Sin.gh: the Nivedita Girls' School premises I Dr. L. M. Smghvl: which resulted in the final closing I Shri Prakash Vir Shastric down of the School and its requisition Shri Vishram Prasad: by the East Pakistan Government. I Shri Kapur Singh: The Deputy High Commissioner has Shri Buta Singh: formally requested the East Pakistan Shri Narasimha Reddy: Government to restore the premises Shrl Bibhutl Mishra: to their rightful owners. It is under- Shri Ram Ratan Gupta: stood that half of the School has been .Z4. ~ Shri D. D. Mantri: vacated but the local authorities are I SOO Indrajit Gupta: not assisting in ending its unautho- I Shrl S. N. Chaturvedi: rised occupation. I SOO Sivamurthl Swami: I Shri Mohan Swarup: External Publicity in African and , Shri D. C. Sharma: Middle East Countries SOO D. D. Puri: I Shri Daji: ·Z3. Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: I Shrl S. M. BaDerjee: Will the Prime Minister be pleased to I Shrl Balkrlshna Wasnlk: state: I Shri Ram Sewak Yadav: (a) whether any fresh steps have L Shri Vasudevall. Nair: been taken to strengthen our publicity in the Middle East and African coun- Will the Minister of Information' tries; and and Broadcasting be pleased to state: (b) if so, the nature of 1Ihe steps taken? _'i (a) Whether it is a fact that a news- reel has been prepared on the com- The Deputy Minister in the Minis- munist sponsored procession to Parlia- try of External Affairs (SOO Dinesh ment on the 13th September, 1963; Singh): (a) Yes, Sir. (b) whether it has been released for (b) Four new publicity posts have show to the public; and already been set up during this year at Algiers, Rabat, Kampala, and Dar- (C) the principles governing the es-Salaam. The programme for pro- preparation of such newsreels'? duction and distribution of pamphlets and bulletins has been intensified. The Minister 01 Information and More material is now being produced Broadcasting (Shrt Satya Narayan in French and Arabic for use in the Sinha): (a) No separate newsreel has French and Arabic speaking countries been prepared; but Ule procession was of these regions. Output of material one of the several items included in in Swahili is proposed to be increased the NewI1'ftl lfe. 780. Written Answers NOVEMBER IB, 1963 Written Answers

(b) The newsreel was released on 8hri M. L. Dwivedi: September 20, 1963, but was with- Shri Mohan Swarup: drawan after about a week, SM p. C. Borooah: 8Jlri D. D. Mantri: (c) The weekly newsreel attempts Shri 8UJ'endranath Dwivedi: to cover as many newsworthy events 8hri Karni Singhjl: of the week as possible in different Shri Sldheshwar Prasad: walks of life, The restrictions on it Shri Raghunath Silll"h: are that notice should not be taken of Shri RaIna Chandra Mallick: activities of such political parties as Shri Ma.heswar Naik: are not recognised as all-India parties, Shri Daljit Singh: that they should not publicise the Shri Vishwa Nath Pandey; activities or programmes of political Shri M. O. Thengondar: parties and that discretion should be Shrimati Renu Chakravarit, exercised in covering demonstrations Shrl Kolla Venkalah: and processions etc. prejudicial to Shri Krishnapal Singh: . Government. Shri D. C. Sharma: Shri H'. C. SOy: lShri Jashvant Mehta: Tusker Project Shri Rishang Keishing: 8hri Bari VishBu Kamath: .Z5 f Dr_ L. M. Singhvi: Will the Minister of Planning be . I 8hri Bhakt Darshan: pleased to state: l Shri D. C. Sharma: (a) whether any mid-term review Will the Minister of Defence be of the progress of the Third Five Year pleased to refer to the reply given to Plan has been prepared by tile Plan- Starred Question No. 121 on the 19th ning Commission; August, 1963 and state: (b) if so, its chief features; and (a) whether the investigation in respect of allegations of corruption by (e) when the same will be ~ certain officers engaged in Tusker to the public for use? Project at Dibrugarh has been com- pleted; and The Deputy Minister in the Minis- try of Labour and Employment and for Planning (Shri C. R. pattabhl (b) if so, the result thereof? Raman); (a) Yes, Sir.

The Minister of Defence (8hri Y. B. Chavan): (a) The investigation in (b) and (e). These are contained in respect of allegations of corruption in a Mid-Tenn Appraisal document which Tusker Project (now Vartak) at is being laid on the Table of the Dibrugarh is stil in progress. Houst' very shortly. The docu- ment t1lPrcafter will be released (b) Does not arise. to the pu bJic.

Avro-748 Review of Third Plan Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: r Shri S. M. Banerjee: r ·27. ~ Shri Umanath: I Shri D. N. Tiwary: I Dr. L. M. Singhvi: L Shri D. D. Pori: 8hri P. Venkatasubbaia:1: I Will the Minister of Defence be I Shri Yashpal Singh: nleased to state , Shri Bibhuti Mishra: Shri Vishram Prasad: (a) the further progre9S made re- 53 Written A ,~ KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Written An"wers garding manufacture of AVRO-748 in Shri R. G. Dubey: It:anpur; I Shri Bibhuti Mishra: ·29. ~ Shri Sham Lal Sara!: (b) whether some o g ~ are I Shri J. B. S. Bist: .till working there; Shri Mohan Swarup: ) Shri 'Swell: (c) if so, the number thereof; and Shri p. R. Chakraverti: Shri P. C. Borooah: (d) whether their services have only I Shri D. N. Tiwary: been retained to train the Indian per- l IKlnnel? Will the Prime Minister be pleased The Minister of Defence Production to state: ID the Ministry of Defence (Shrl Raghuramaiah): (a) So far 3 aircraft of Series I have been completed. (a) whether it is a fact that efforts have been made to bring the Nagaland Manufacture of 4th aircraft of Series Administration and underground hos- I and 5th and 6th aircraft of Series II tile Naga leaders together to resolve is in hand. the problems of Nagaland; (b) Yes, Sir.

(C) One Stress-engineer. (b) if so, whether it is proposed to hold a joint conference in which hos- (d) Yes, Sir. tile leaders including Mr. Phizo may participa te; and ~ ~ ~ ~

(c) the other long term measures r '.otT ~ m: resorted to for the restoration of l'.otT ~ J. , ~ : peace in Nagaland? .o ~~ ~ . ~ ..n f.\'o <:0 ~ The Deputy Minister in the Ministry of External AtJairs (Shri Dlnesh I'.otT ~~ qr.n: Singh): (a) No, Sir. L""I1mT mmT fif1Tlf: (b) Does not arise. ~ ~ l'l'1.fT ~ f"f''''<1'', 9 ~ ~ : if; <'fl'7ifif;d ~ .r(lIT ¥",);, if; ~, if; (C) The interim arrangements for .r;ff] it ~ ~ 'f>'T 'F'TI rn f'f>' 1~11 the administration of Nagaland will ;f\'fr.rr if; ,1~ ~ 13 ~ if; f:iR' End with the formation of the State of Nagaland on 1st December, 1963. f'lf"l;;;r ~ . on: ~ f'r.l.,'l 7fT 761' The elections to the Legislative As- lilT, ~ ;ITt i:j- ~ f;rcrrl:i ~ 7fIn' sembly of the State of Nagaland will ~ be held in January 1964. Q .

~ ~ o.. ~ . 1 ~ Greater emphasis will be placed on ~ ~ if '-l'l1r

,Expulsion of South Africa From UNO (b) the number of Scheduled Castes und other Backward Classes p'2rsonl Shri Hem Barua: r amongst them as on the 31st Decem- Shri Surendra Pal Singh: I ber, 1962? I Shrirnati Savitri Nigam: *311, ~ Shri Maheswar Naik: The Deputy Minister in the Minis- Shri Swell: try of Labour and Employment and l Shri P. C. BUrooah: for Planning (Shri C. R. l'aHabbi Raman): (a) 1,08,533 Will the Prime Minister be pleased to slate: (b) Scheduled Castes, 8,883 (a) whether it is a fact that a con- SchedUled Tribes·, 3. ·Clerted move was made at the U.N.O. recently to expel South Afrira from ·Separnte figures for other Back- the world body; and ward clUttar Pradesh as on 30th inscribed on the Agenda of the cur- Junc, 1963; and r('nt session of the General A ~ , This item has not yet come up for (b) the number of such candidates debate in the Plenary. who were offered employment assis- 27 MEmbers, including Ind'a. have tance from July, 1962 to June, 1963? also asked for U meeting of the Secu- rity Council to discuss this issue. The Deputy Minister in the Minis- The Security Council is expected to try Of Labour and Employment and meet shortly. for Planning (Shri C. R. Pattabh1 Raman): (a) and (b). During its last session, the General Assembly of the United Nations pas- sed a resolUtion No. 1761 (XVII) on Category of Number Number the 6th of November, 1962, which, applicants nn Live placed in inter atia, requested the Security ~g ~ cmpJ(ly- . Council to consider action under as on 30th mcnt June, during Article 6 of the U.N. Charter wh:ch 1963 July 1962 provides for expulsion of Members. to June India co-sponsored and voted for the 1963 resolution. Educated Unemployment in U.P. 3 Graduates 73 1. Shri Sarjoo Pandey: WiJi the Matriculates and Minister of Labour and Employment Intermediates 746 b .. pleased to state: Below Matriculation standard (includ- (a) the number of educated unem- ing illiterates) 1,660 ployed in Uttar Pradesh as on the TnTAL .31s t December, 1962; and 57 Written Answe.,-s KARTIKA 27, IBSS (SAKA) Written Answers

Indians ill UK. been effected during 1962-63 and if so, the number of workers so retren- 3. Shri Surendranath Dwivedl: ched, and the reasons therefor; Will the Prime Minister be pleased to state: (b) whether during t"1e correspond- (a) whether Government hoave rece- ing period any recruitment "J! work- ived any me"morandum from the ers has taken place in the said de- Indian Workers' Association of Great partment and if so the number of Britain (Cov'entljy branch) <:oncern- workers so recruited; ing Indian nationals residing in the United Kingdom; (c). whether the workers ;'etrench- ed were given preference for re-em- (b) the nature of the memorandum; ployment; and

(c) whether they have represented (d) if not, the reasons therefor?

M.E.S., Bikaner The Minister of Planning (Shri B. R. Bhagat): Except for a few ~ 4 Shri Karni Singhji: f 1 information regarding State-wise dis- Shri v. B. Deo: ·1 tribution of Central outlay is not available, As regards ~. contri- Will the Minister ot Defence be bution a statement showing 0stimated pleased to state: State 'resources for the Th ird Five (a) whether any retrenchment of Year Plan is placed on the Table of workers under the Garrison Engineer, the House. [Pl.aced in Libta,ry .. See M. E. S., Bikaner (Rajasth'lln) has No. LT-1819/63]. 59 Written Answers NOVEMBER lb. 1963 Written Answers 60

Working Journalists raiders. A militia patrol wa3 sent to the village and a case has been 6. Shri C. K. Bhattacharyya: W;ll registered by the local Police. the Minister of Labour and EmplOY- ment be pleased to state: Automatic Rifles (a) whether Government h8VC noti- Shri Yashpal Singh; fied newspapers as required hy Sec- Shri Vishram Prasad; tion 2(b) of the Working Journalists' Shri Hem Barua; Act, 1955; Shri S. M. Banerjee; (b) if so, whether a list of such Shri Bishanchander Seth; newspapers would be laid on the 8. Shri B. P. Yadava; Table; :Jnd Shri Maheswar Naik; Shri D. C. Sharma; (c) the dates of the offici .. ! gazette Shri Oza; ('ontaining the notificoations? Shri Rasumatari; The Deputy Minister in the Minis- Shri Onkar Lal Berwa; try of Labour & Employment and fOr Shri Umanath; Planning (Shri C. R. Pattabhl Raman): Will the Minister of Defent'" be' (a) No. pleased to state:

(b) and (c). Do not ~. (oa) the daily o ~ o of semi- automatic rifles in the Ishapore Rifle Raid by Pakistanis in Deva Village Factory; (J. & K.) (b) whether it is a fact that the Shri Yashpal Singh: factory is proposed to he expanded to rShri Kachhavaiya: increase the daily output; and '7 l Shri Bade: . '1 Shri Buta Singh: (cl whether such rifles are also· being ~ in any other I Shri Bishanchander Seth; l Shri B. P. Yadava; factory and if so, in which factoric.'? Will the Prime Minister l,e p!ease1 The Minister of Defence Produc- to state; tIon in the Ministry Of Defence (Shri Raghuramaiah): (a) The present pro- (a) whether it is a fact that armed duction of semi-automatic rifles is. Pakistani raiders crossed the case- 1,500 Nos. per month in ~ Factory, fire line and killed two Indian mltion- Ishapore. This is being progressively als ncar Deva village in the Chamb increased to 2,500 per month. area of Jammu and Kashmir Smtl' (b) Yes, Sir. on the night of 21st-22nd September, 1963; and (c) No, SOr. (,b) if so, the particulars of the in- cident and action taken in the matter? MIG Fighters

The Prime Minister, Minister of Ex- r Shri Yashpal Singh; ternal Affairs and Minister of Atomic Shri P. C. Borooah; Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) I Shri Hem Barua; and (b). Yes, Sir. Shri Surendra Pal Singn: 9. ~I Shri Bishanchander Seth: On Septemher 21, at 0430 hrs. ap- Shrl B. P. Yadava: proximately 10 Pakistan soldiers raid- Shri Dhaon; ed the village of Kerideva, 6 miles Shri Vishram Prasad: from Chhamb. Two villagers were Shri Prak.ash Vir Shastri: .hot dead 'and one wounded by the I Shrl P. K. Deo: 61 Written A . ,~ KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answers 6z

Shri D, D, Purl: Nehru): (a). and (b). As a result of 1 Shri Balkrlshaa Wasnik: the preliminary enquiry regarding Shri P. R. Chakraverti: the escape of Mishmis 1111der trial, L Shri Sldheshwar Prasad: the Central Reserve Police N.C.O. and the personnel concerned have ~ Will the Minister of Defence be placed under arrest. Their trial by pleased to state the latest position in the C.R.P. Commandant under the regard to construction of factories of C.R.P. Act is in progress. The matter the production of MIG fighters in is, therefore, subjudice. collaboration with the SQviet Union?

The Minister of Defence Production Persons of Indian Origin in CeyloD in the Ministry Of Defence (Shri Raghuramaiah): The Project Repcrts 11. Shri llari Vishnu Kamath: Win on Airframe and Aero-Engine Factor- the Prime Minister be pleased to re- ies, since completed by Indian Team fer to the reply given to Unstarred in consultation with Russian Specia- Quest'on No. 1943 on the 16th Sep- lists, are currently under examination tember, 1963 ana ~ by the Government. (3) whether any offici,i intimation regarding the possibility of stateless Land has been acquired at Koraput persons of Indian orig:n in Ceylon in Orissa and i,s being acquired {It being gmnted British citizenship has Nasik. The State Gov,'rnments have been received; and been entrusted with ClV:: Construc- t:on Work as agents Clf the Central (b) if so, the reaction of Govern- Government. Administrative approval ment thereto? for first Phase construction program- me amounting to Rs. 3.5 crores has The Prime Minister, Minister of already been issued for the Airframe External Affairs and Minister of Ato- Factory, Nasik. For the Aero-Engine mic Energy (Shri JawaharlaJ Nehru): Factory, Koraput, the first Pha3e esti- (a) No, Sir. m:ltes amounting to Rs. 3'16 crores arc under examination for adminis- (b) Does not arise. tmtive approval. A site TIear Hydera- bad has been selected for the foctory to be established for the manufacture U. N. General Assembly SessioD of electronic components. 12. J Shrl Hat} Vishnu Kamath: L Shri Shree Naryan Das: Chinese Spies in NEFA Will the Prime Minister be pleased 19. Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Will to state: the Prime Minister be pleased to re- fer to the reply given to Starred (a) the items of the agenda or the Question No. 690-A on the 16th Sep- various items that have so far been tember, 1963 and state: discussed in the current session of the General Assembly of the United (a) whether the inquiry by the Nations; and Commandant of Central Reserve Police regarding the escape of Chinese (b) the stand taken by the IndiQn spies trom Teju Jail in NEFA has delegation? since been concluded; and The Prime Minister, Minister of (b) if so, the result thereof? External Affairs and Minister Of Ato- mic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): The Prime Minister, Minister of (a) and (b). A statement is placed External Affairs and Minister of on the Table 01 the House. [PJ.aced Atomic Energy (Shri JawaharlaJ in Library. See No, LT-1820/63], 1383 (ai) LSD-4. Written Answers NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Written Answer,

Wage BOard fOr Engineering Industry Colle of Discipline tor Civilians 13. Shri Indrajit Gupta: Will the 15. Shri S. M. Banerjee: Will the Minister of Labour and Employment Minister of Detencebe pleased to be pleased to state: state: (a) wlhether a code of discipline has (a) whether the question of ap- sincebee:n adopted in all defence pointing a Wage Board for tile En- establishments for civilian employees; fineering Industry h-as been consider- ed by Government; 'lnd (b) whether this will apply to the air force establishments also; (b) if so, the result thereof? (c) if so, from when; and The Deputy Minister In the Minis- (d) whether the ;employees orga- try of Labour and Employment (Sbrl nisations were consillted befcxre ad- Il. K. Malviya): (a) Yes. opting this code?

(b) An official Study Group has The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. Chavan): (a) to (d). The whole been appointed to ~ and sug- question is under examination. cest whether any ~ o of wage rates for the industry as a whole would be possible and, if not, 1 ~ ~ hew the various engineering indus- tries could be grouped for the pur- - ~~ ... : pose of appointment of Wage Boards. "" Sfo r;io ~ I ~~. ~ - ~~ A.I.R. Announcers I "" ~ srmq: 14. Shrl S. M. Banerjee: Will the - ~o o~ Minister of Information and Broad- ~ g be pleased to sta te: ifm ~ ~ ~ ll''lfT ~~ (a) whether it is a fact that the Wffif, 9 t ~ ~ if; mn'f>cf "SfH 'l'tlfT announcers in A.LR. are not I!ligible ~ if; ~ if; ~ it ~ 'tiT f'F 'liT'3"GKw;r ~ 1~J~ rules; and ~ (;;rn ~~ 'FT ~ (b) if so, the reason therefor? ~ ~ if; fW!; r;

(b) They are not engaged on per- manent basis because they must con- form to A.I.R.'s standards and these ifm srfi:mn ltft €. ~, 9 t ~ ~ In the case of statl' artists are variable from time to time. if; mtfW"S£lrif ~ ~ if; ~ if; 65 Written A ~ KARTlKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answers

*i!:i if ~ mm: '1ft if; f'fllfur if; f;"'fl1; ~ q;j',ftI'fT I ~ rn: ~1 ~ ~ WfTen 'f;1 ;;rr ~1 ~ 1 fcr;m: f'!ill'T ;;rr ~ '

t; ~ mit ~ ifiT11 ~ srfu7MT m if; ~ ) mom: rn: fc;qr 'flff I!fT ~ ~, . ,~ if ~ ~ 'flff ~I ':( . ~ <'fTlil ~ ~ -nfu '3'tr ~ if; ~ 'liT ~ ~~ ttq-=q if; mtif f'!ill'T 'flff I ( t) m'fi rn: f'Rl'ifr lil'rt gm, ~ if; m if ~ ~ ~ srr<1 ifQ:T ~ I ~ ;fR: <:m: ~ ~ 'liT $ ~, 1'4 ,im:",

World Journalists' Ctmlerence Third Dlvisloa M.A's and B.A's Rer;ilI- tered in Employment Exchanges r Shri B. P. Yadava: j Shri Bishanchander Seth: Shrl B. P. Yadav: ZOo r I Shri Dhaon: 21. ~ Shri Dhaon: LShri Mohan Swarup: l Shri Bishanchander Seth: Will the Prime Minister be pleased Will thE' Minister of Labour ana to state: Employment be pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that India also particip2.ted in the World Journ- (a) the total number of persons alists' Conference held recently; with third division in M.A. and B.A. examinations and with t0aching (b) if so, 1fue personnel Of the degree, who have registered their lndian delegation; names with t.he employment ex- (e) whether the Indian tle:egation ehanges; had put forward any proposals to the Conference; aIld (b) whether it IS a fact that such persons have posed a problem for the (d) if so, the decision taJ..:en by the Directorate of Employment in the Conference thereon? matter Of finding jobs for them; and The Prime Minister, Minister of (c) if so, the steps taken by Gov- External Mairs and Minister of Atomic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal ernment for absorbing these persons in suitable jobs? Nehru): (a) Indian journalist, also participated in the World Journalists' The Deputy Minister in the Miais- Conference. try of Labour and Employment and (b) The Indian Delega tion consist- for Planning (Shrl C. R. Pattabhl ed Of the following members: Raman): (a) The information is gIven below:- Shri Kedar Ghosh, 'Statesman", Calcutta Number of 2. Shri Upcndra Vajpayc. "Aj". applicants Lucknow C:ltegory on the Live Register as 3. Shri Upendra Vajpayc, "Aj". on 31-10-63 Trivandrum 4. Shri N. K. Swami, Utkal (i) Third Division B.As with J aurnalists Association teaching degree 5. Shri Pravin Chandra Chabra, (ii) Third Division M.As Rajasthan Working Journal- with teaching degree . 1 I,16 ists Union. (b) No; most of these applicants ara 6. Shri G. Rama Rao. _'.ndhrr'a registered with the Employment Ex- Pradesh Union of Working changes for less than 6 months. Journalists. (c) and (d). Since these journal- (c) Does not arise. ists attended the conference as the representatives of the Indian Federa- International CQIltroJ Commission ill tion of Working Journalists Oil a Laos direct invitation from the Interna- tional OrganizatiOn of Journalists and r Shrl Basamatarl: since they were neither Epunsored nor 22. -{ Shri p. C. Borooah: sent by the Government of India, nO l Shrlmati Renu Chakravartty information is availabl" about any Will the Prime MInister be pleased proposals made by tRem to the con- to state the developments that have ference. Written A ,~ KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answe1's 70 taken place in regard to the working Will the Prime Minister be pleased of the International Control Commis- to refer to the replies given to Star- sion in Laos of whi.eh India is red Questions Nos, 274 and 689 on the Chairman, during the past three 26th August and 16th September, months? 1963 respectively and state f1lrther developments that have since t:Jken The Prime Minister, Minister of place towards settiement of the pro- Exkntal Mairs anci Minister of blem of Stateless persons Of Indian Atomic Energy (Shri .fawaharlal origin in Ceylon? Nehru): The I ~ o Control Conunission has been continuing it3 The Prime Ministl'r, Minister of useful work in Laos, DW'ing the last Extental Affairs anil Minister of three months, it has, among other Atomic Energy (Shrl lawaharlal things, been asked to investigate the Nehru): A reply to the Ceylon Prime incident of 9th September, 1963 in Minister's letter dated 6·8 ·63 to the Vientiane, involving the Pathet' Lao Prime Minister of India, on this sub- and the Right Wing troops, During ject, has since been delivered to her, this period, the CommissIOners r.ave We are now awaiing her reply, also made a number "f visits to Khang Khay the Palhet Lao Head- Air Space Violations by Chinese quarters, to 'maintain contacts with Prince Souphanouvong and the Pathet Shri P. C. Borooah: Lao, The Commission is continuing Shri Hem Barua: its efforts to bring about a resump- r Shri Bhakt Darshan: tion of cooperative contacts among Shri Prakash Vir Shastri: the Laotian parties concerned, Shri S. M. Banerjee: 1 Shri Yashpal Singh: Persons of Indian Origin In Ceylon Shri Balmiki: 24, ~ Shri Vlshwa Nath Pandey: r Shrl P, C, Borooah: I Shri M. L. Dwivedl: I Shri Vasudevan Nair: I Shri S, C. Samanta: Shlt'i Hem Barna: . Shri B. K. Das: I , Shri Yashpal Singh: Shri Ramachandra U1aka: Dr, L. M. Singhvi: Shri N, R. Laskar: Shri Vishram Prasad: I Shri Dhuleshwar Meena: Shri Prakash Vir Shastri: LShrimati Savltri Nigam: IShri Rame!lhwar Tantia: Shrimati Renuka Barkatak.l: Shri Maheswar Nal\(: Will the Minister of Defence be Shnimati Savitri Nigam: pleased to state: Shri SureDdra Pal ~ Shri M. L. Dwivedi: (a) the number of Indian air space 23. Shrj S, C. SamaIlta: violations committed bv the Chinese Shri B. K. Das: aircraft during the past three montb.!l; Shri Mohan Swarup: Shri J. B, S, Bist: (b) the brief particulars of thNP. Sbri Warior: incidents; and Shri Indrajit Gupta: SIlr! P, R. Chakraverti: (c) the action taken by Govern- ~ ~. Sharma: ment in each case? Shri Kaehbavalya: Shrl Dajl: ' 1 The Minister 01 Defence (Sh.rI Y B. Chavan): (a) According to the Shri B. C, Soy: Shri Bibhuti Misbra: informatiOn. vailable to Government Shrl O. Mobant1: Iodate, there has been no violation of Written Answers 71 NOVEMBER IB, 1963 Written AnswerB

Indian Air space by the Chinese air- The Minister of Defence (Shri craft since lBth August, 1963. Y. B. Chavan): (a) According to the (b) and (c). Do not arise. Information available to Government to-date, there have been eight VIOla- Air Space ViolatiollS by PaldstaDia tions of Indian air-space ,inee 18th August 1963. J Shri p. C. Borooah: Shri Yashpal Singh: Shri Hem Barua: (b) and (c). The l'equired informa- Shri Bade: tion is given in the Statement laid on Shri Bula Singh: the Table of the House. [Placed in Shri Vishram Prasad: Library. See No. LT-1B2l/63]. Shri Bhakt Darshan: Shri Bishanchander Seth: Indians in Mozambique Shri B. p. Yadava: Shri S. M. Banerjee: r Dr. L. M. Singhvi: Shri R. G. Dubey: %6. ~ 8hri P. C. Borooah: Shri Maheswar Naik: LShri R. S. Tiwary: Shri Surendra Pal Singh: Will the Prime Minister be pleas- Shrl M. L. Dwivedi: ed to refer to the rep!y given to Un- Shri S. C. Samuta: starred Question No. 877 On the 26th Shri B. K. Das: August, 1963 an,d state the further Shri A. V. Raghavan: I steps taken to safeguard the rights of Shri Pottekkatt: Indians in Mozambique? 25. Smi Sarjoo Pandey: Shri D. C. Sharma: The Prime Minister, Minister of Shri D. D. Purl: External Affairs and Minister ot 8hri J. B S. Bist: Atomic Energy (Shrl Jawaharlal IShrl Bhagwat Jha Azad. Nehru): After the U.A.R. broke off I Dr. L. M. Singhvi: re]:ltions with Portugal, the Govern- I Shri N. R. Laskar: ment of India sounded the Mexican Shri Swell: Government if it would look after Shri Vishwa Nath Pan.dey: [nelian i!'l.'rests in Portugal and its IShri Balkrishna Wasnik: ('(J;"nies. The Mex' om Government Shri Raghunath Singh: has ('ommunicn tcd its agreement to Shri Dhaon: look after Indian interests in Portu- Shri Krishnapal Singh: guese territ.ories. It is ho[ eel that in Shri Ramachandra Ulaka: the near future a represent:Jtive of the Shri Dhuleshwar Meena: Mexican Embas"Y in Lisbon will be Shrimati Savitri Nigam: able to visit M()zambique to look into IShri P. K. Ghosh: the pro>'lems resulting from . t.he Shri HOOa: actions Of the Portuguese authorities l Shri Mohan Swarup: against Indians.

Will the Minister of Defence be Missing I.dlan Soldiers pleased to state: r Shrl M. L. Dwivedl: (a) the number of Indian air-S?ace I Shri S. C. Samanta: violations committed by PakIstan 2'7. Shri B. K. Das: aircraft during the past three months; i Shrl P. C. Borooah: LShri Harl Vishllu Kamath: (b) the details of these air-spllet! Will the Minister of Defence be violations; aDd pleased to state:

(e) t'he action taken bv Govem- (a) the number of Indian Military ~ in each ~ personn!,l who are still missing since 73 Written Answer.-s KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answef'B 74

the Chinese attacks of October, Family Pension -Other Ranks November last year; Cases of family pension finally settled . . .. 484 (b) whether all of them have been declared as dead)killed; Cases where (pending enquiry) awards sanctioned and forms awaited for final family pen- (c) whether matters relating to the sion . I,S7S pensions/gratuity of those killed in Cases where no heir for family the recent Chinese invasions have pension exists (confirmation been settled; and awaited from civil authori- ties) . 39

(d) if not, the number of case3 Total 2.,091 where such matters have been settled so far and in how many cases these Family Gratuity-Other Ranks issues are yet to be settled? Cases finally disposed of . I,3~ The Minister of Defence ~ Y. B. Cases under consideration (in- formation yet awaited in most Chavan): (a) The number of Indian of them). Army personnel still unaccounted for is 771. There are some bodies in the Total . demilitarised zone in Ladakh and the Thagla Ridge area, details of which we are endeavouring to obtain. AfrO-Asian Conference, Nicosia 28. Shri Hem Barua: Will the Prime (b ) No. Some cases are still out· Minister be pleased to state: standing as the formalities have not been completed. (a) whether it is a fact that India was represented at the Afro-Asian Conference held recently at Nicosia; (c) Yes, in most cases. (b) if so. whether the Indian dele- (d) The present position regarding gation has submitted any report, ~ 1 of cases of personnel kill· verbal or written. to Government on ed/dead or presumed dead is as the conclusions of the Conference; and follows: ( c) if so, the broad outline thereof? Family Pension-Officers The Prime Minister, Minister of Cases of family pension finally External AtTairs and M1nistelr ot settled. 38 Atomic Energy (Shrl JawaharIal Cases in which provisional Nehru): (a) to (e). India WdS not family pension sanctioned - officially represented at the meeting of forms awaited for final pen· the Executive Committee of the Afro- sion I I Asian Solidarity Organization held at Cases pf unmarried officers Nicosia. However a Delegate of the where forms or information Indian A o o~ for Afro-Asian awaited from dependents 5 Solidarity participated in it. As the Other cases of unmarried delegation was not official the question officers under consideration 14' Of the Delegate submitting a report to Government did not arise. However, Total 68 the Delegate, on her return to India, conveyed her impressions at 1!he meet- 'In 3 cases provisional speClal allowances sanctioned. ing to the Ministry of External Affairs. 75 Written Answers NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Written Answers

Attack by Pakistanis in Moyel Village raided village Keri in the Chhamb (J. and K.) area and killed 2 villagers and inj ured Shri Hem Barua: another. Shri (Tmanath: [ Shri S. M. BaneI'jee: Ceasefire violRtion complaints haVe Shri Surendra Pal Singh: been lodged with the U.N. Observers whose award is awaited. Sllri Bhagwat Jha Azad: Shri D. N. Tiwary: Dr. L. M. Singhvi: Indian Air Adviser in Pakistan Shrj p. C. Borooa.h: 30. Shri Hem Barua: Will the Prime Sllri Bishanchander Seth: Minister be pleased to state: Shri Chattar Singh: Z9. Shri B. P. Yadava: (a) whether it is a fact that a pro- Shrimati Renuka Barkatak.l: test was lodged with Pakistan for Shri Rameshwar Tantia: declaring our Adviser an.d two other Shrl P. Venkatasubbaiah: o ~ personnel at Karachi, per- Shri Ram Ratan Gupta: sona non grate, On fake charges of Shri S. N. Chaturvedi: espionage; and Shri n. C. Shanna: Shri G. MOhanty: (b) if so, the nature of reply receiv- Sllri Maheswar Naik: ('d from Pakistan? Shrl Vishwa Nath Pandey: l Shri Sidheshwar Prasad: The PrIme Minister, Minister of External Affairs and Minister 01 Will the Prime Minister be pleased Atomic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal to state: Nehru: (a) In reply to the Pakistan Government note dated 8-9-1963, (a) whether It is a fact that recently requesting for the recall of the Air Pakistanis opened fire at Moyel village Adviser to the Indian High Commis- In the Chhamb area, on t.he Kashmir ,ion in Karachi and three other mem- cease-fire line; hers of the High Commission staff, the Government of India totally rejec- (b) if so, whether it continued for ted allegations of espionage made by two days on the 26th ana. 27th Sep· the Government of Pakistan against tember, 1963; our Air Adviser and three members of the High Commission staff. (c) the number of casualties suffer- ed on OUr side; and The Government of India officially informed the Government of Pakistan (d) whether the incidents have been that the action taken by them in brought to the notice Of the U.N. demanding the recall of the personnel Observers? of the Indian High CO'l1mission was clearly retaliatory, in as much as the The Prime Minister, Minister of Government of India had demaded. on ExterDa.l Affairs and Minlstetr of 5-9-1963. the recall of the Air Adviser Atomic Energy (Shri Jawaharlal to the Pakistan High Commission and Nehru): (a) to (d). On 26th Sep- two members or the High Commission tember, 1963, Pakistan troops opened staff for reasons of their involvement unprovoked firing towards the Indian in espionage activities. These un- post at Moyel in the Chhamb area. desirable activities or personnel of the The firing continued intermittently. Pakistan High Commission came to No casualties were reported. light when an officer of the Indian Air Force was arrested on 3-9-1963 in the A few days earlier-on 21st Sep- company of members Of the Pakistan tember, 1963-Pakistan tToops had High CommissiOn staff. 77 Written Answe"s KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answers

(b) As was to be expected, the ported to have been dernonct'3ed and Government of Pakistan, in their reply, to be without value. He claimed to merely reiterated their view that the have received the notes from a Khasi dema,nd for the recal! of personnel of girl. This story has, however, been the Indian High Commission was made denied by the girl. Enquiries dUe to their alleged involvement in have not so far established any con- espionage, The Government of India tact between the arrested persOn and have once again refuted this conten- the Ohinese. tion, in another note dated 4-11-1963 to which there has been no reply from B.O.A.C. Employees' Union, New Delhi Pakistan. 32. Shri P. Kunhan: Will the Minis_ ter of LabOur and Employment be An!est of a Naga with Chinese pleased to stale: Currency Notes (a) whether Government have re- ceived a representation dated the 23rd rShri Onkar Lal Berwa: Septembcr, 1963 from the B.O.A.C. Shri Gokaran Prasad: Employees' Union, New Delhi; 31. ~ Shri Hem Barua: , Shri D. C. Sharma: (b) if so, their grievances; and L Shri Vishwa Nath Pandey: (c) the decision, if aay, taken there- Will the Prime Minister be pleased on? to state: The Deputy Minister in the Minis- try of Labour and Employment (Shrl (a) whether it is a fact that recently R. K. Malviya): (a). Yes. a Naga resident of Lakuni in Mokok- chung District of Nagaland was arres- (b) The Union ha.d requested that ted i,n whose custody some Chinese provisions of the Delhi Shops aRd Esta- currency notes were fOUGd; and blishments Act, 1954, should be im- plemented. They 'had also requesteJ that no "unilateral" action should be (b) if so, the details of the incident taken by the Delhi Administration in as also the sourer from which the regard to the grant of total exemptiGn Naga had obtained the currency notes? from the Act, which the Air Com- panics had sought for. fie Prime Minister, Minister of (e) The request of the Air Compan- External Affairs and Minister ot ies for total exemption from the pro- Atomic Energy (Shri JawaharlaJ visions of the Act has 'not been agreed Nehru): (a) Yes, Sir. to. (b) On 12th September, 1963 KAJEN KABA AO son of Teka Temba Ao of Lakhuni village in the district of rllft ~ ~~ Mokokchung, was found moving in suspicious circumstances at Nakachari H. ~ 11ft ¥T fql railway station PS Teok District I ~ Sibsagar, A ~ and was ~ . A known thief, he had served a jail sen- W ~ *,,"r ~ ~

~ ~ ~ ~1 ;;ifiii' ~ 't>"t ~ il ~ . discrimination. However, in the matter ijlj; "t lj;R ~ lfil: ~ ~ ~ ~ present imbalance. ~~~~~~ ~ ~1 (b) Does not arise.

(if) l1fG ~, aT ~

~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ , (a) whether o ~ propose to ~ ~ "t m

rShTi Bade: The Prime Minister, Minister of Shri Ruta Singh: External Affairs and Minister of J ~ Mohan Swamp: Atomic Energy (Shri JawaharlaJ 34· Shn p. K. Ghosh: Nehru): (a) Yes, Sir. I Shri ~. l Shri Narasimha Re4dy: (b) The additional aid will be of Shri H. C. Soy: the order or Rs. 3 crores, bringing the total of aid to be utilised during the Will the Prime Minister be pleased period April 1961 to March 1\166 to to state: R. 21 crores.

(a) whether Government are ~ (el Yes, Sir. of the discrimination practised in the civil service by Kenya Government against Indians; and

(b) if so, the step!! tak.. .n hy Gonn- ". o,f"T ~ srm: om JNA ment? ""'" ~ iM"A !!\'t !I'1T ~ flj; :

TIle pn.. MinIster, Minister of ( ~ ) ~ crv:rr fircr1"lf q:qqq1lJ 1xterDa.l Mairs and MiJli!rt.er of ~ il ~ srfu" 5!iflRf ~ A.tomic Energy (Shri .Jawaharlal Nebru): (a) We are not aware of any flIia;n ~ gm; 81 Written Answe'."S KARTlKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answ(!1"s 82

(€I") ~ lir..r;:rr if; ftio; ~ October, I963 srfu 0!:ffiRr ~ ~ ~ ffi R ... nP ~ ~ per kilog Rice o 57 ~ ~ '!eX=? it ~ mer Sugar I 45 ~ ~ ~ ffi v:rr ~ ~ ffi Salt o 21 ~ ? Dal Arbae 098 Masur o 88 Mung a 93 I ~ ",,", ~ ~ ~ ~ m Chana a 72. ~ Ii;rT (lilT , ~ 1 ~ (ifi) ij' ~ .~ ~ ~ I (b) Does not arise.

(c) Fair-price sales in NEFA are through Government centres, sixty of Food Prices in NEFA which exist in the territory. Twenty of these are in Lohit Frontier Division Shri P. C. Borooah: 37. f including two in the Khamti-Singpho L Shrimati Savitri Nigam: area. Sales from these centres are not only to Government staff but to Will the Prime Minister be pleased the tribal population for such items as to state: may from time to time be in short supply. (a) whether there is a considerable rise in the prices of foodstuffs in Welfare Fund tor Iro. Ore Workers NEFA; 38. Shri Sham Lal Sara!: Will the Minister of Labour and Employment (b) if so, the steps being taken be pleased to state: by Government to arrest the rise in food prices there; and (a) whether a cess of 25 Naye Paise per Metric tonne of iron ore has been (c) the number of fair-price shops levied since the 1st October, 1963 with opened in each Division, particularly a view to starting a welfare fund for Lohit Division of NEFA? workers; and (b) if so, the machinery set up to The Prime Minister, Minister of Ex. administer this fund? ternal Affairs and Minister of Atomic The Deputy Minister in the Minis- Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) try of LabOur and Employment (Shri No, Sir. A comparative statement R. K. Malviya): (a) Yes, Sir. showing 1962 and 1963 retail rates ot essential commodities at Government (b) The Fund will be administered Bale centres is as follows:- through tripartite Advisory Commit- tees, one for Bihar and one for Orissa, December, I96? one for Andhra Pradesh and Mysore, and one for Madhya Pradesh and Rs. nP Maharashtra, and Cess Commissioners per seer Rice for each region. It is also proposed 050 to have a Coordinating Committee at Sugar I 24 the Centre comprising of the Chair- Salt o 17 men of the Advisory Committee, and Dal Arhar o 64 others to coordinate and supervise the Chana . o 62. activities at the Fund. Written Ansu,eTIl NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Written Answers

Indians from Burma aH Ceylon The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. Chavan): (a) 1,227. Shri Koya: 39. f Shri Basumatarl: (b) Candidates sponsored by Gov- l ernment are provided with free Will the Prime Minister be pleas- tuition. Non-sponsored candidates ed to state: who qualify in the language examina- tions, conducted by the School of (a) whether the Government of Foreign Languages, New Delhi, are Kerala have requested for Central granted an award of R. 250.00 Both assistance for rl"habilitating the sponsored and non-sponsored candi- evacuees from Burma and Ceylon; dates who qualify in Interpretership and Examination are granted an allow- ance of Rs. 100.00 per month when (b) if so, the reaction of the Cen- appointed as Interpreters. tral Government thereto!

The Prime Minister, Mhrlster of Ex- Foreign Assistance for Ordnance ternal Affairs and Minister of Atomic Factories Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) No, Sir. 42. Shri J. B. S. Bist: Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to (b) Does not a:ise. state:

Recruitment of Pilots (a) whether it is a fact that U.S. and British assistance for establish- 40. Shrimati Savitri Nigam: Will ment of ordnance factories has not the Minister of Defence be pleased to come forth to the extent to which it state the number of civilian pilots was expected; and who have applied for jobs under the l.A.F. and the number of those who (b) if so, whether any o .~ have have been actually recruited in 1962- been made to secure this assistance 53? from other countries and if so, with what success?

The MinIster of Defence (Shri Y. B. The Minister of Defence (Shr! Y. B. Chavan): 493 civilian pilots applied Chavan): (a) and (b). The assistance for jobs in the Air Force during 1962- promised by the USA and UK autho- 63. but only 24 among them were rities covers the main plant far two 8 eligible to apply. Out of these, of the six new ordnance o ~, we candidates reported for interview at have planned to sct up. Efforts to the Air Force Selection Board and 7 secure assistance from friendly coun- of them were selected. However, tries including the USA and UK for only 6 candid ales reported fOr train- the remaining four factories are con- ing. tinuing.

Foreign Lannage Schools EDmLeeriD&' Labour In Calcutta 41. Slll'i Warlor: Will the Minister of Def_ be pleased to state: 43. Shri Indrajit Gupta: Will ~ Minister of PlanB.i.ng be pleased to (a) the number of defence service state: personnel who qualified in foreign languages from schools conducted by (a) whether the Planning Commis- Government; and sion has undertaken a survey of engineering labour in the greater (b) the encouragement given by Calcutta area; Government to defence service per- (b) if so, the object and scope sonnel to learn foreign lanruaP8? at the survey; and Written A ~ KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answers 86

(c) when it will be completed? its periodical attempts to circulate literature directed against nations and The Minister of Planning (Shri B. heads of Governments friendly to R. Rhagat): (a) The Research Pro- India; and grammes Committee of the Planning Commission approved in October, (b) if so, the details thereof? 19U2, a research scheme relating to economic survey of Industrial Labour The Prime Minister, Minister of F.ll- (Engineering) in greater Calcutta. temal Affairs and Minister of Atomic The research scheme has been under- Energy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) taken by Prof. S. K. Basu, Head of and (b). Yes, Sir. The Charge c:' the Department of Economics, Cal- Affaires of the Chinese Embassy was cutta University. summoned to the Ministry of Exter· (b) The scheme envisages study nal Affairs and informed that in ~ of:- ing with their general policy, the Government of India disapproved of (i) pattern of wage and non- the misuse of the hospitality accord- wage benefits received by the ed to a diploma tic mission by its workers in Engineering In- carrying out a campaign of criticism dustries and its impact on in- against other countries friendly to dustrial relations and labour- India. The Chinese Embassy was re- productivity, quested to refrain from any furtht'r distribution on Indian soil of pro- (ii) influence of trade unions, if paganda material aimed at other any, on the pattern of benefits countries friendly to India. enjoyed by the workers and on the level of labour-pro- ductivity, Land for Jawans (iii) the working of the Code of r Shri Raghunath Singh: Discipline recently introduc- I Shri Rameshwar Tantla: ed in some of the indutries, Shrimati Renuka Barkatald '5. Shri Kolla Venkaiah: (i v) the extent and effeet of wage- 1Shri P. R. Chakravarti: drift among certain categor- Shri p. C. Borooah: ies of skilled workers, and Shri Vishwanath Pandey: the relationship between the system of wage-escalation and Will the Minister of Defence be inflation. pleased to state how many States have drawn up a scheme to give land to The survey would cover a sample of Jawans or the families of Jawans who establishments and workers from fought at the border during last both general engineering and electri- Chinese aggression and the detailR cal engineering industries of various thereof? size-categories. The Minister of Defence (Shri Y. B. (c) The study which commenced in Chavan): Such schemes have t>een February, 1963, is expected to be submitted by the Government ot completed early in 1965. Bihar and the Administrations of NEFA and Andaman and Nicooar Chinese Embassy In New Delhi Islands. The details of these schemes are under consideration by the Cen- r Shri D. C. Sharma: 'ral Government. 44. L Shri Ram Sewak Yadav: The States of Andhra Pradesh, Will the Prime Minister be pleased Assam, Gujerat, Jammu and KashmIr, to state: Kerala, Madhya Pradesh, Madras, (a) whether the Chinese Embassy Maharashtra, Orissa, Rajasthan, Uitar in New Delhi has been warned against Pradesh, West Bengal, Himachal ~- Written Answers NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Written Answers 88 desh and Nagaland have either re- ( \);;rrqffi l'J1<;rT- served: land for Jawans and theIr families or decided to give preference 0fT1R ~ ...mrm' to them for grant of land. ( c;) ~-

Raid by Pakista. oa Assam Border ;ntTT ~ Shri Swell: 8hri Raghunath Singh: f ....iT ~ i-oo: Shri P. C. Borooah: ~. l 'iT ~ srmq: Shri Krishnapal Singh: Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: 'flIT m

~ (iJi') ,'" ~, 9tq 'liT (a) whether it is a fact that on 12th ~ ~ ~ 1!iJi' ~ ~ ;;fr.jl1lJT October, 1963 a large number of Pakistanis raided the Indian check- qjl'j' ii (;;it ~ ~ ~ ii ~ post at Tamahil in the Khasi-.l aintia ,"" lft<:r ~ fimit ~ ~ ~ Hills; ~ 'fT I 'fl1: fimit m't ~ ~, m.: Gt (b) whether the raiders were ac- ~ ~ it I \;1T 1Fi ~ f

( ~ ~o~ iJt;ft (b) No Sir. the raiders were not accompanied by personnel of the Jiiast ~ ~ ~ Pakistan Rifles but alter the raiders had recrossed the border and return- l ~ \f,) ed to Pakistan territory. EPR per- 1 j ~ t'l

tions in their bunkers at Amortilla, ~~~~~ overlooking our customs post at Tamabil. .~. ~ ~~ ifllT ~ ~ (c) Our customs officials resisted as ~~ lI'i:r"t ~ m

(8. Shrl Hecla: Will the Minister of ( ~ ) ~ ~~ "') fiI;cf.f 1ffil ff'fi' Defence be pleased to state: ~~ ~ ~ (a) whether the Hindustan Aircraft fiI;

(b) if so, the name and type of the """ ~~~ ~ o uo qpr ... - aircraft and the foreign collabora- ~ ("') 'I ~, 1 ltit tion, if any; and ~,~ 1 I (c) the programme of the manufac- ture and likely date of its commence- ( ~ ) ~ ijqr T fums. The manufacturing programme is under consideration. fi:I<;rar ~ I itiW itiW ~ 1 ~

(b) A Children's education allow- was cirC'Ulated for consideration of ance is granted by the Central Gov- the State Governments:- ernment at the rate of Rs. 10/- p.m. per child studying in primary classes and Rs. 15/- p.m. per child studying I"come Rare of Amount of scholar- in Secondary and higi.cr Secondary Scholarship ships and c/othi,,!! classes subject to ce:t-ain conditions. Allowance Educational conccs:;ions such as ~ tuition and stipends have been grant- ed by several State Go\'ernments in respect of children of J a wans, Other Rs. 100- 400 Full plus Rs. 1900/- per welfare measures have also been taken p.m. clothing annum plus by a number of ~ Governments in allowance Rs. 3001- for the form of cash grants, 101>ns, land cl

(b) if so, the broad outlines of the scheme and the number of States that have accepted the scheme; and

(c) the action taken to implement ~ . t..1'T ~ ~ em ~ the suggl'stion? ~~~~~ I ~ f1f; The Minister of Defence (Shrl Y. B. Chavan): (a) to (c). A statement of (q;) ~ ~~ the scholarship schemes instituted by on: fq;CI'fT um oq

~ ~ ~ ~ q,.,) (lilT ,~ Film on Removal lit Untouchability ;;nn:rcrr ~ ('f;) ~ 'f.T m<:Tr;;f"'; 56. Shri Daljit Singh: Will lhc 'm ~ ~ ~ ~ it. ~ Minister of Information and Bro.ld- casting be pleased to refer to the reply ~ fil;m ~ I "Aifl1R g f'f; ~ ~

~, if ~ , 00 ;;rriilfr '1;1"1<: 'l;f"'"'l" ~ (b) The date of completion can be ;r ~

Workers Education Centres in Punjab Transmlttlag Station ia the Border Areas of U.P.

55. Shri Daljit Singh: Will the 57. Shri K. C. Pant: Will the Minis- Minister of Labonr and Employment ter of Information and Broadcasting be pleased to state: be pleased to state:

(aJ ~ any workers education (a) whether Government propose centres have been started in Punjab to set up a transmitting station in the during 1962-63 and 1963-64 so far; and border areas of Uttar Pradesh; and

(b) if so, the details thereof? (b) if so, when and where?

The Deputy Minister in the Mlnis- The Deputy Minister ia the Minis- 1ry of Labour and Employment and try of IRformatlon and Broadcasting for PllUll1lng (Shri C. R. Pattabhi (Shri . Sham Nath): (a) and (b). No, Raman): (a) A sub-centre of WOf- Sir. The existing shortwave trans- kers' Education started functioning at mitter at Lucknow provides a fairly Faridabad with effect from 27-6-1963. satisfactory service to the border re- gions of Uttar Pradesh. In addition. (b) A batch comprising 23 worker- the transmitter under installation at teachers has completed three months Rampur and that proposed to be training which included lectures, installed at Simla are expected to loeal excursions, an educational tour, provide a fairly satisfactory servIce debates, role-plays, and instructions under favourable conditions, parti- through audio-visual aids. Nine unit cularly at night time. to the hilly level classes for training of workers border districts of North-West Uttar have been organised. Pradesh. 1383 (Ai)LSD-5, 95 Written Answers NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Written Answers

Indian Libraries in East Pakistan (a) whether the decision to set up zonal committees for Raniganj, r Shri Indrajit Gupta: Jharia and Madhya Pradesh Collieri.,s Shri P. C. Borooah: has been implemented; I Shri RaghUllatlt Singh: 58. ~ Shri Onkar Lal Berwa: (b) if not, the reason. for the delay; I Shri Maheswar Naik: and I Shri D. J. Naik: L Shri Sidheshwar Prasad: (c) when the zonal committees are expected to be set up? Will the Prime Minister be pleased to state: The Deputy Minister in the Minis- try or Labour and Employment (Slarl (a) whether Pakistan has demanded R. K. Malvlya): (a) to (c). There is the closure or libraries and reading no decision to. set up zonal c0mmil- rooms run by the Indian Missiom in tees for thes£' coal fields. The tripartite Dacca and Rajshahi; meeting held on May 5, 1962 recom- mended that the question of ~ g (b) the reasons advanced lor up regional or zonal committees Le making such a demand; and examined. In pursuance of thi, -re- commendation the concerned State' (c) Government's reaction thereio? Governments, N.C.D.C., employers" and workers' organisations were C('n- The Prime Minister, Minister of Ex- suited. In view of -iivergent views tel'Jla) Affairs and Minister of AtQ1nic expressed by the employers' and Ellergy (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): workeri' 'Uganisation; regarding the (a) Yes, Sir. utility and compos; tion of the com- mitiees the suggestion was not. pur- (b) The closure of these libraries sued. and reading rooms was demanded hy the Pakistan Government in a notp New Model Standing Orders for handed over to our High Commi,osion Collieries in Karachi, alleging that these !ibn.- 60. Shri Mohammad Elias: Will the' ries were unauthorised and had "e- Minister of Labour and Employment come centres of subversion and hostile be pleased to state: activities. (a) the number and names of ('col- (c) The Government of India haye lieries in West Bengal which have protested against this demand and applied for certification of New Model have rejected totally the completely Standing Orders so far; unfounded and baseless the dl1ega- tions made against the activities of (b) the names of collieries Vl;hich these libraries and reading rooms, have not applied; and which were functioning far many years solely for the purpose of dis- (c) the steps taken to enturee thl' seminating information and fostering New Model Standing Orders in all good relations between India and the collieries? Pakistan. However, instructions have been issued to our High Commission The Deputy Minister in the Ministry in Pakistan to close these institutions or Labour aad Employment (l!Ihri R. K. pending further discussions with the Malviya): (a) Eighty-three; t!'l2 names- Government of Pakistan. of the collieries are given In the- Statement laid on the Table of Ule Zonal Committees for Collieries House. [Placed in Library, see No. LT-1823/631. 59. Shri Mohammad Elias: Will the Minister of Labour and Employment (b) the names of the coili",l'i& are be pleased to state: appended. 97 Written A ~ KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answers

(c) The matter is being j:.Ulsl1ed by bunal, Miscellaneous ApplicatiL·r. No. the officers of the Central Im1ustrial t of 1963 dated the 8th August, j 963; Relations Department with the man- and agements concerned. The IlItiJan (b) if so, the stcps taker. to imple- Mining Association !Iave suggestect ment the decision? some amendments and these :Ire to be considered at the meeting of the The Deputy Minister in the Minis- Industrinl Committee on Coal Indus- try 01 Labour and Employment (Shri try. R. K. Malviya): (a) and (b). The information is bein,; collected and Arbitration of ~ in Com"ries will be placed on the Table Of tbe House as early as poss.b1e. 61. Sllri Mohammad Elias: Will the Minister ot Labour and Emr,loymellt Central Goverllment Industrial Tri- be pleased to state: bunal. Dhallbud

(a) the number of cisput'25 ot col- 63. Dr. U. Misra: Will the Minister lieries in West Bengal w;,ich have of Labour and Employment be plea,- been settled by arbitration ur.der the ed to state: Code ot Discipline; (a) whether the award of L"1e Cen- (b) how many of these disputes tral Government Industrial Tribunal, were raised by the 1NTlJC, AITUC Dhanbad Ref. 7 of 1962 has been and H.M.S. (with individu"j breakup); published; and

(c) how many disputes of West (b) if so, the ~ tuk£'n t::. imple- 30ngal collieries have been sent for ment the award? adjudication in 1963 so far; and The Deputy Minister in the j~ try of Labour alld Employnaent (Shri (d) how many at these disputes R. K. MaIvlya): (a) and (b). The were raised by ~ INTUe. AITUe award in question lw.; been published and H.M.S. (with indi\'ic]ual ~ in Part II. Section 3. Sub·Section (ii) The Deputy Minister in the Minis- Of the Gazette of India. dated the 2nd November, 196J. The manage- try of Labour and o ~. (Shri R. K. Malvlya): (a) Filty. ment of the oj ~ is requ;;-ed to implement the aware! withil: on!' (b) INTUC 15. month from the date when it o ~ AITUC 14 effective after Its publication i.e. with- in 2-1-1964. H.M.S. 7 (c) 29. Khas Chalbalpur Colliery in ~ Bengal (d) INTUe 10 AlTUe g 64. Dr. U. Misra: Will the Minister of Labour and Employment be pleas- H.M.S. 5 ed to state:

Bankola CollierY (a) whether the management of the Khas Chalbalpur Colliery in West 62. Dr. U. Misra: Will the Minister Bengal and Collierv Mazdur Sabha, of Labour and Employment be pleas- Asansol had entered into ;,111 g ~ ed to state: ment before the crJllciliation officer. Raniganj on the 12th f)"eember. 1962 (a) whether it is a fact that the regarding payment o! dues to the management of th" Bankola Culliery worknlen; has not implemented the decision of Shri L. P. Dave, Presiding Officer, (b) whether the terms of this agree- Central Governmept Industrial Tri- ment have been impiemented; 99 Writlel1 A1lswer.' NOVEMBER lR, 1963 Obituary Rejcl'cnccs 100

(c) if not, the rna,Ol" :hcrefor; and (c) No, Sir.

(d) thp steps taken by Government (d) The 3uccessf'11 candidates ure to enforce the ~ o "f the yet to be intervi"'Hecl by 1.112 Umon agreement? Public Service Commission. The Deputy Ministe.· in the Ministry of Labour and I~ (Shri R. K, Malviya): (a) Yes.

(b) No. U hrs.

(cl The management of the Colliery OBITUARY REFERENCES has been putting IIp th" ~ of fin- Mr. Speaker: I have tel inform thi' ancial diffkulti'!s and had requested House Of the sad demise uf !lve of our for extension of time for implement- friends. namely Shri Gov:lld Had ing the settlement. Deshpande, Shri U. Muthunmalinga (d) The question of taking legal Theva!". Shri R. Seshagiri Rao, Dr. action against the rr,anagement is Gopal Vinayak Deshmukh a!ld Shri under consideration. The union has Amolakh Chand. also been advised by the Central In- Shri Deshp2nd" \Vas a Mcnlber of dustrial Relations Department to this House from Nasik coast,tucncy of take action under section 33C 0 [ the Mahal'ashtru. He was a;"o Member of Industrial Disputes Act, 1947 for the First Lok Sabha during the years computation of uncomputed Items of 1952 to 1957. He passed away at the settlement and ~ ~o nf dues. Bombay on the 21st October, 1963 at Prorramme Execut;vc, for the A.I.R. the age of 61. Shri Thevar was also a 3lHing Mem- 65. Shri H. N. Mukcrjee: Wiil !lIe ber Of t.his House from Arup,)ukkottai Minister of Informa(ion and Broad- constituency o[ Madras. He was also casting be pleased to state: Member of the Second Lok Sab:la (a) whether it '" " fact that an during· the years 19:;7 to 1962. lie examination was ;leld by the U.P.S.C. passed away at Thirunagar on the 29th towards the middle of this year for the October, 1963. recruitment of Programme Executives Shri Seshagiri Rao W.lS a ~ in the All India Kad ~o of the First Lok Sabha during the Ib) if so, the Iluml.:cr of vacancies years 1952 to 1957. He passed away to be filled up, Station-wise; at Kurnool on the 30th MIlY, 1963 at thp age of 54. (c) whether the rC3u!t oC ~ exa- Dr. Deshmukh was a Member of the mination has been d,>clared; and Central Legislative A ~ during (d) if not, at what stag!' the process the years 1937 to 1946. ~ passed of recruitment rest.>? away at Bombay on the 22nd Septem- ber, 1963, at the age of 80.

The Minister of I ~ o aJld Shri Amolakh Chand w"s a Mem- Broadcasting (Shri Satya Narayan ber Of the Provisionai Farliament Sblha): (a) Ye." Sir. during the years 1951 to U52. He passed away at Madhupur 011 the 10th (b) The strength A Programme November, 1963, at tlte age of 57. Executives at the vanQU' Stations of All India Radio is being reviewed, We deeply mourn the los: of ~. and the number Oi o ~ to be fill- friends and I am sure the H.)Use will ed will depend on the result of the join me in conveying our contloiencel review. to the berea,eel families. 101 Motions KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) for Ad]our1,ment lCJ2

The House may ~ ill silence f;,r who is concernc'd. At a,}} race, a.: a short v:hilc to express J~. sorrow. far as I know about it. lean give :iUC,} information as I have (The MembeTs then sLaod in silence fUT a ShOTt while) Mr. Speaker: There is no question of giving information now I have asked ~ J there was any objec- 12.02 hrs. tion. There was no objection taken. So, leave has been granted. Now, l\lOTIONS FOI{ ADJOURNMENT the discussion is to take place; and it is on ly the time that has to be fixed ESCAPE OF Mn. WALCOTT for the purpose. I would like to know Mr. Speaker: I have rccciverl niJtices whether it is convenient for Govern- of 17 adjournment motions -and 50 men! to have the discussion today or cal Ii ng -a ttention -not 1 ces. th"Y ":ould like to have it tomorrow. The first adjournment moiJe!} recd\'- Shri Tyagi (Dehra Dun): I had got ed in prj;)]'i 'y of time is the u:1e from up to object, but you did flut t..lke Shri Nath Pai whjch read, as lollows: notice.

"Escape of Mr. WaJcott'-'il man Shri lIari ~ Karnath: No, no. wanted by police in c::mnc:tion (Interruptions) . with the commission by hir:1 of several offcnces--in a plane ~ OI Shl'i ~ (Dehra Dun): I had got ill<' Safu3rj:mg air-port, th'Js the Treasury Benches should always bringing into ridicule the whole object. I also have got tre right to apparatus of "ecurity arrange- object and ask for the requi:;ite num- ments and giving cause and alarm ber of vo(<,s before leav" is granteu. in the public mind as to security Mr. Speaker: I asked thrice and I as a whole .... did not see even one Member or I shall ask Shri Nath Pai to move for hear e\ en once voice. leave of the House. Shri Tyagi: I got up. (Interrup- tions). Even so, I rise to a point of Shri Nath Pai (Rajapur): I tnink order. that the House was taken by surprise, and perhaps, a large number of Mem- Shri Natb Pal: No. bers were shocked when they read in Mr. Speaker: One thing ought to be the papers that here was a man .... made very clear. So far as leave is Mr, Speaker: TI'.e hon. Mt:mber has concerned, it has been granted. There only to move for leave, under rule 60. cannot be any point of order so far as the granting of the leave is con- Shri Nath Pai: Under r ... lc eo, may cerned, and there is no other busine3s I seek thl' leave of the House to move before the House for the "resent. my adjournment motion, which y'lU have been kind enough to lead out? Shrl Tyagi: On a point of procedure, I must have the benefit of your gui- Mr. Speaker: Is there any objeetion dance. As far as I know, according to to ~ Is there any objection to leave the rules, leave for an adjournment being granted? Is there any ob)ec- motion cannot bl' granted just becaJ.l.,,· tion?-Thcre is no oblectiJn. So, the Treasury Benches have not object- leave is grantl'd. ed. There must be the requisite num- ber of supporters.

The Minister of Home Mairs (8"1'1 Some lion. Members: N., nn ~I Nanda): I have not had any intima- ruptions) . tion about it. I think this "as been referred to the Minister of ~ o Shri Tyagl: I want your guidance. NOVEMBER 18, 1963 for Adjournml"nt 103 Motions 104

Mr. Speaker: Order. ordN. If the knew what was the issue sought to be functions of the Speaker are to be ra iscd before the House. taken over by everyone, it would be- Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I have C01'1e difficult for me. If he just con- only to read the motion, I cannot do sults the Rules. he will find that if anything further. Have I to alert objection is taken, then I have to ask Ml'mbl'l's that thev should be ready to the Members in support to rise in do J ~ g Thot b nOI my busi- their places. Whl'n no objection is nes.'i. taken, 1 have no ne:'d ~o ask. That is the rule. Therefore, I asked lhri.'c. Thi, wvuld be taken up tomorrow anrl nobodv said that tltere was 3!lY d[ 4 o'clock. Shri Nanda: May say one thing? .

An lion. Member: If you wish. ~ . Speaker: l\'o other adjournment motion can \1(' L.lkl'n up o ~ , On!y Mr. Sprakrr: That s:lOuld not be O!ll' can b0 taken up on a particu:ar taken so lightly by any han. Member. day. Th3t should not bp the behaviour of such responsible perS'Jns. Thev ·-ir ,pg'\ (f;;-,i"): lITVleT 11~, ~ o conduct , ~, in a more responsible rnann('r ltn . - 1 ~ 'f,T ~ g ..

This leave has been gr.1n!ed. It Shci hldra,iit Gupta (Cilculla-South- wOuid be taken up at 4 o'clock toda:- Westl: What about til" D.h··r adJOlll'll- men1 111otions'! S!tri Nanda: Let It be td):en lip tom;)lTow. Mr. Spe:l.ker: Thi.; lllotlOn hds been I may add that although I was taken admitted. Wlwlher we discus; il to- day or t ::.mortow i:; another matter. - ~ th" matter had been re:errcd to another Mini,try-I 0.1::,' one adJ0U"nrnl'nt ran be taken personally believe that it is a matter up on a day and no :110re. of oullicien! importance to be disCllS- Shri Mohammad Elias (Howrah): If ~ , and a5 soon as possib'e. Let it one after the other is to be taken up he t.omorrow. J ike this, it \\"ill take 17 davs for all of th0m to be disposed of. - Can we Shri I1ari Vishnu Kamath (Hoshan- wait like that? Actualiy, t'he food gabad): Ht' need not argue the mat- .01 tua lion is very very serIoUS .. ter. Mr. Speaker: It cannot b" t'lken Mr. Speaker: All right. It is agreed up in this manner, If all the 17 are !hat it would be taken up at 4 o'clock allowed and no objection taken it tomorrow. would have to continue like tha't. Shri Sham Lal Saraf (Jammu and ~ .-TIT,) : ~ ~~, ~ J t1;'T> Kashmir): May I seek your guidance on one point? My submission is that O ~ ~., ~ we never knew what was the issue before the House .. (Interruptions) . ~~I ~ : qytf ~ ~ . -~, irt ~ ~~ on: 'IT qytf O ~~ ;m Sfl/;r A. Hon. Member: He was not atten- tive, ~~~ ..

Sbrl Sham La) Saraf: Whether I 1~ ~~~ ~ agree with the Mover or not, we never ¥Um ~ I .- ~ ,~ on: 111' .,,, IO~ Motions KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) for Adjouq-nment 106

ij"1 'tiT -.'rr.91 ~ >;IP- m'f •.it ~ : Tro 5f!l'f aT 'forR if; I) i\:'fnT ~, ""oR ~ , ~ fOf> ll'f,' ,~ 'fiT T illl'T ~ ~ I m'T ilu omr

~ ~ W'T ~ :->f p-r:. , ll- II 'f ii' I ll'f,' ~ 'f>T W-J'1 -::m- 'f>r>r<:N.T ~ 1 "r9T r ~ ~ 'Ii1 $1"11'1 'ITT I S!FWf if; iT ~ ~ 't OjTrP' "",it >it 'foFT:!IT I ~ ~ ~ t. il;R'l; 'fi1i 'fiTit ifi'nl if@ nr q7 ~ 'Fr $1"11" rn ~ '!'f:91 ~ ? ;own-

'ismr I ~4 'f>T $I"11'f "'<1' m'T ~ ~ I ~ il '!'f "i f'fi'l; i'1"TT ~ I ~ f;fr'f.n: fCf,1lT 'q'h: orT "'1'T't ~ ifir m'T'f:T cl:f'W4T 'f:T WT'f '.!'f f w.rr I . ~ !:fXi1T'lT J;jR ~,o ~ ~ Cfi: \1091 .,(,1' f I n:'f.' 1Il'CfT'f ifif n:sfl1?' $I"11cfi it <: f;;p:[r 'qh m;;r ~1J ~ n:sflJ'i'; 'fo'<: "'0T ~ I if'r ",of,' 'f;T11,'rn ~ ~ frr.ClT I ~ ~ if 'flIT ~ '! 'qR ~ I ".1'f7f"f it oW it G;P:r

!i ~ ~ I ~ ~ ~ I~ ~1I ~~ : ... rh mn- I ".1T'l ~, ilirr. Il f'f1 T <:'fT 'f,T ~ Tf <9' I q-:sa-T ~ ~ I

~1I $tf : mer ffi ~ ~ j qum ~ : il ~ ~ ~~ .. , ~ ~ r' ~ ~ ~ ailT ll'il: ij'fl1' «;;r ;;rrlfl1:f en {i ~ ~ 'Jf'O!<: ~ ~ ~ I ilit '>mI ~ ~ m * '!a-TIiAi ~ ;;j1,m I 107 MotiollS NOVEMBER 18, 1963 for Adjournment

~o <:Tlf ~ ~ : "lAv:Ter ~ ~ : ~ l'RBT if ;;it ~, 'flIT ~ .- orR it m f'fllli ~ ;ftfC:

lilt <:Tlf ~~ lfm' ( orrnll'RT e,f0T ~ fiI; 'flIT ~ m ~ 1 ~ ~ Shri Indrajit Gupta: Are we requir- ed to give fresh notice again?

~ ~ : ~ fiI; i'f.t 't ~~ ~ ~ ~~ it ifi

prices. am just asking the Minister Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I have whether he can make a statement. told the House many times that one adjournment motion had been admit- Shrimati Renu Chllkravartty (Bar- ted; no other ~ be admitted today ... rackpore): Sir, our Party had 1110ved (Interruptions) . an Adjournment Motion on this parti- cular point. A statement is only made to list facts and we will know the "'1') ~ : ~ ~, l\'lJ D,'fi facts. But we would like to censure the Government. If this is allowed Em m ~ 'f>T ~ ( ..• will we be permitted to move the Adjournment Motion? . .. (Interrup- ~~~~ ~ tions) . ,n m;:r ~ ~ ~ 'tilt ifRf ;;@ ~ Mr. Speaker: That can be consider- ~ ~ ~ I ~ - . ed afler this is over. trT"1 ~ ~ ~ trT"1 ifT"l:-ifT"l: 'FTf- The Deputy Minister of Food and

Mr. Speaker: After the statement is ~~ ~~ : ~ om ~ ltiT made tomorrow, we can decide ~ ~~~~~~ trT"1 whether we can have any discussiOn Q:m -ifT"l: ~ or not. om: rn m<: m: J

Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I have answered all those questions. WTo '@I' ~ ~ : 5 o ~ ~, ~ ~ ~.., !:l;'f. m'1 ;r;ft Shri S. M. Banerjee: We moved the adjournment motions because we . - ~ 1 ~ I wanted to censure the Government. We have heard the statements so Q ~ ~ : ~ .q;;j RQ: lf1J; ~. I often. III NOVEMBER 18, Ig63 Pape-rs l 112 laid on the Table 12,20 hrs. I I ~ ~~ : ~ 1~ ~ I I # ~ RE: ALLEGED INACCURACY IN '!1ffiT f'f.' ~ 'fl'lT I ,~ ? ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ PROCEEDINGS *<1' ~ ;f.1 ~~ 'f.?: 1'f,T R flf, m'r ~ itt 'Tffi, WR itt

~ 0 ':flf J ~~ <'r)f';:rqr ('f."ISI[i.fR): m1 on: iJ ~ ."rr Q1 "l'

~o 'l;'l'r, . ~ ~ : lrU 1A~1 e1 J1 ~ : ,~ " 11 f U\'r ~ iTf!lffl ~o "'i'fljp" 11~~1 1 : l;i' ~ 3~ if' 'i"· '(r I h ~ it ~ ~ wRl· ~ f'f> 1"f'i'i'Wf ~ 0' 7FT I t ?,"n;i'F'f !-n lil ;ref' 't 'flIT 1 O~ ",f,! 'H I Vetl'e1 ~ 1 ': 'i 'ft'1 'fil -,,-; 'R:l·1 ;pn ~ ;;rr-T""f ;;fA; "-1; ~ , ~ I :"H'fI ";''; 'A!7fT., Pl1 f I

~ ?11{ I ~ <'iff;; ... ! ~ ~ IAU"e1 ~~ ~ : ~ I J fi ~~ ,~ ~ W1Ti ,~ I ~ 'I ,- 'f>T ;;ri' I!: ';1m I iF; Tf!l]!i[ 'f>T f'f: '10' 'f;lllomT i1"<: ,,;il m- ~~ fi11"; ,,m iT if.1 'f,r "IT r; '1 m ~~,., PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE OJ I ~ ~~~ : wy7 ~ l]<'f'l wfr ['''PEns HE. PREVENTI\"E: DEl'E(>;nON ACT, f, m'r iR rmT m'l"'T ~ f'ti' '3"11: m 1950 f.,-n, "le1 'f>T ~ been assured earlier by the hon, ~ ~ ~ I ~~~ . Home Minister that just like the review (If the Preventive Detention !!Wo'f ~ it ~ "iI6RT" ~ f. ance of protection to the Engineer's Steel Files Indus- Mr. Speaker: I will try to find out try. from him. (ii) Government Resolution No. 27th 7 (2) -Tar /63. dated the A J.o~ tiNDER THE COMPAN(ES ACT. September, 1963. 1956 (iii) Statement explaining the The Minister of Defence Production reasons why a copy each of In the Minilltry of Defence (Shri Ra- the documents at 0) and (ii) above could not be laid on .-huramaiah): I beg to lay on the Table a copy each of the foHowing Reports the Table within the peri'Od IlS P")Jiln; Utid on NOVEMBER IB, 1963 President's a,.sent 116 the Table to BilLs [Shri RaghUl',im,:"hl (2) a copy of Notification No. G. under sub-sectivll ,,) of section 619A S. R. 1605, dated the 5th of the Companies Act, 1956: Odober, 1963 under sub-sec- tion (2) of section 4 of the (i) Annual Report of the Maza- Employees' Provident Funds gon Dock Limited, Bombay, Act, 1952. extending the said for the year ended 31st March. Act t:J the distilling and rec- ]9U3. alung with the Audited tifying of spirits (not falling Accounts and the comments 'of ~ industrial and power the Comptroller a"d Auditor alcuhol) and blending of General thereon. [Placed in spirits industry. [P!rlccdin Library. See ]';0. LT-1811/63J. Library. S .. e No. LT·1814/63.]

(ii) Annual Report of the Gardl'n (3) a copy of the Central Appren- Reach Worshops, L'mi!e1, Lceship Council (Amend- Calcutta, for the year ended ment) Rules, 1963 published 3:"i l\brch, 1963, along with in Notificati'on No. G. S. R. the Audikd Accounts ~. :lll' 1465 dated the 7th September, comments of the Cumptr'ul!er 1963. unde:' "ub·se'dion (3) of and Auditor General therpun. section 37 of the Apprentices [Placed in Library. See No Act, 1961. [Placed in Lib- LT-1BI2/63.1 ?",,'y. See No. 1815/63,]

(4) a copy of Government Rcsolu- NOTITICATIONS UNDER THE EMPLOYEES' t;en No. WB-5(l61/G3 dated PROVIDENT FUNDS ACT AND Ap· the 27th September, 1963 ac- PRENTICES ACT AND GOVERNMENT RESO' cepting the recommendations LUTION re CENTRAL WAGE BOARD FOR of the Central Wage Board Jun: INDUSTRY fOr Jute Industry. [Placed in Library. See No. LT-1816/63.1

The Deputy Minister in the Minis- try of Labour and Employment and for Planning (Shrl Pattabhi Raman): I beg to lay on the Table-

(1) a copy each of the following Notifications under sub-sec- 12.23 hra. tion (2) of section 7 of the PRESIDENT'S ASSENT TO BILLS Employees' Provident Funds Act, 1952: Secretary: Sir, I lay on the Table copies, duly authenticated by the Sec- (i) The Employees' Provident retary of Rajya Sabha, of the following Funds (Fifteenth Amend- twelVe Bills passed by- the Houses of ment) Scheme 1963 pub- Parliament and assentc-d to by the lished in 'Notification No, G, President since a report was last made S. R. 1401 dated the 24th to the House on 16th September, August, 1963, the 1963:- (ii) The Employees' Provident (1) The Export (Quality Control Funds (Seventeenth Amend- and Inspection) Bi11, 1963. ment) Scheme, 1963 pub- lished in Notification No. (2) The All-India Services G. S. R. 1433 dRted the 29th (Amendment) Bill, 1963. August, 1963. [Placed in Li- (3) The Institutes of Technology braTII. See No. LT-IB13/631. (Amendment) Bill, 1963. J 17 Constitution KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) (Seventeenth 118 Amendment) Bill (4) 'i'he Special Marriage J oint o ~ on the Bill fur- (Amendment) Bill, 1963. th('r to amend the Constitution of Indla, be extended up to the Jast (5) 'fhe Indian Sale of Goods day of the first week of the next (Amendment) Bill, 1963. session." (6) The Warehousing Corporations (Amendment) Bill, 1963. Mr. Speaker: Motion moved:

(7) The Dramatic Performances "That the time app'ointed for the (Delhi Repeal) Bill, 1963. presentation of the Report of the Joint CommittEe on the Bill fur- (8) The Limitation Bill, 1963. ther to amend the Constitution of (9) The Constitution (Fifteenth India, be extended up to the last Amendment) Bill, 1963. day of the first week of the next session." (10) The Constitution (Sixteenth Amendment) Bill, 1963. Shri Vasudevan Nair (Ambalapu- zha): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I regret that (11) The Personal Injuries (Com- we are asked to extend the time for pensation Insurance) Bill, submission of the report by the Joint 1963. Committee after this session and up to (12) The Major Port Trust, Bill, the end of the first week of the next 1963. session. You know, Sir, there is a long history behind this Constitution (Se"enteenth Amendment) Bill. We were all requesting you to advise the SUPPLEMENTARY DEMANDS FOR Government to expedite the passing 01 GRANTS (GENERAL), 1963-64 this Bill by this House. It is very strange that after all these appeals The Minister of Finance (Shri T. T. made to the Government, the Govern- Krishnamaehari): I beg to present a ment also is a party, I hope, to the statl'ment showing the Supplementary proposal extending the time by such a Demands for Grants (General) for the long period. year 1963-64. Mr. Speaker: Let Us find out. He may move his amendment. DEMANDS FOR EXCESS GRANTS Shri Vasudevan Nair: Sir, I beg to (RAILWAYS), 1961-62 move: The Minister of Railways (Shri "That the time be extended up Dasappa): I beg to present a state- to 1st December, 1963". ment showing the Demands for Excess Grants in respect of the Budget Mr. Speaker: The original motion (Railways) for 1961-62. was that the time be extended up to the last day 'of the first week of the 12.24 hi'll. next sess:on. The oamendment is that :t may be extended up to 1st Decem- CONSTITUTION (SEVENTEENTH ber, 1963. AMENDMENT) BILL Shri Krishnamoorthy Rao: Sir, the REPORT OF JOINT COMMITTEE Joint Committee first gave time up to Shri KrishnamOorthy Rao (Shimo- 5th October, 1963 for submission of .ta): I beg to move: memoranda. Later, we received a large number of representations and "That the time app'ointed for the telegrams, including &'orne representa- presentation of the Report of the tions from Members of Parllament, 119 Constitution NOVEMBER 18, 1963 ( Seventeenth 12.0 Amendment) Bill [Shn Krishnamoorthy Rao] asking for extension of time. The Shri Ranra: It only shows their an- Committee at its sitting on 11th xiety to get this thing through some- October, 1963 extended the time for h'ow. In the beginning the House was receipt of memoranda up to 15th told that some difficulties arose November. 1963. The Committee has because one particular Act in Kerala held five sittings and examined a was struck down by the Supreme number of witnesses. Detailed memo- Court. Therefore, the Government of randa from about 60 more organisa- India was requested to bring forward tions have been received. Several a Bill amending the Constitution in thousand representations have also order to validate that Act. Taking been received. 144 Acts of loeal advantage of it the Government have leg;slatures are sought to be added on n"Ow sough t to validate 124 Acts to the Sch .. dul" of the Constitution. passed by various States. The Committee has so far heard evi- dl'nce from nine associati'ons and one An HOD. Member: 144 Acts now. individual. Requests from about ten Shri RaDga: It is 124 plu, :lO-any more parties for giving evidence are way, I speak subject to correction. pending. The Government was anxi- Copies of many of these Acts are not ous that this Bill should be passed available. Responsible people in well before the clOse of this session. different parts of the country have When the Committee considered this tried to get copies of these Acts and aspect. I suggested to the Committee in s'ome places even Government offi- that we might sit during the sessi'on. ces have got the answer that these are The members represented that they out of print. So. J would suggest to could not devote time both to the the Committe€, to gl't sufficient num- work of the Committee and also to ber of copips of these Acts printed and the legislative work during the Ses- make them available to Members nt sion. We even thought of sitting on Parliament and others who would Saturdays and Sundays and also after like to study them. five o'crock on other days. But the members said that they had fixed Sec'ondly. it is not easy for ordinary other engagements both on Saturdays kisans and their leaders to be coming and Sundays and it was thought im- all the way to Delhi to giVe evidence possible to sit after five o'clock also. before the Committee. So the onlv a'ternative was to ask for time till the close of the first week of Mr. Speaker: He can make those the next session. TherC'fore. it is with suggestions in the Committee. the full concurrence of the Com- Shri Ranga: I am making those sug- mittee. Sir, that I am coming forward gestions to the House and, through the with this proposal. House, to the Committee. Here I am Shri Ranga (Chittoor): Sir, I giving reas'ons why extension of time oppose the amendment suggested by is needed. I want the Committee to some han. Members of the Communist tour at least three or four places in Party. Their amendment, Sir, is only each state; otherwise, it would not indicative of their unh'oly impatience ... be possible for the ordinary kisans to appear before the Committee and give Mr. Speaker: Han. Members should evidence. During the inter-session try to be brief now. time when we were On tour we went Shri RaDra: If yOU want me to sit from place to place and met a num- down, Sir, I will sit down. ber of people and we found to our surprise a lot of ignorance about the Mr. Speaker: He may go on, but try contents of the Bill and the signifi- to be brief. I ~ , canCe of the Bill on the part of th .. 121 Constitution KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Motions reo 122 (Seventeenth Committee on Amendment) Bill Public Undertakings klsrms Therefor, I would suggest Mr. Speaker: I know that. But that you may be good enough to cannot agree that the Joint Committee order that this Bill should be adver- should go round the country and try tised in all the local language papers to collect evidence. ThOse witnesses so that the public would be able to who desire to appear before the Com- know the contents of the BilI; if it is mittee should come forward with their published only in the official Gazette, evidence. They can send in written it would not be possible for them to memoranda 'or appear before the Com- kn'ow the' contents of the Bill, There- mittee in person. Every facility fore, I request you to take action on would be provided to them for that. these lines. So, I cannot accede to that request in this case also. Shri Warior (Trichur): This Bill had been postponed for the last two sessions. So, I humbly submit that its Now, I am going to put the amend- passing should not be pustponed any ment tn the vote of the House. The further, question is: ' i

Shri Krishnamoorthy Rao: So far as "That the time be extended only the copies of the BiIls and Acts are up to 1st December, 1963". concerned, they have been printed. The motion was negatived. Copies are being distributed to Mem- bers of Parliament, apart from laying them on the Table. Those Members Mr. Speaker: Now, the question is: who are interested in them can cer- tainly collect the copies. "That the time appointed for the presentati'on of the Report of the Shri Ranga: What about the Bill Joint Committee on the BilI fur- itself? ther to amend the Constitution of India, be extended up to the last Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: In the day of the first week of the next caSe of all Splee! and Joint Commit- session." tees, copies of Bills are supplied to all Members who are interested in them. The motion was adopted. Mr. Speaker: Regarding ihe points raised by Shri Ranga, so far as direc- tions by the House to the Committee are concerned, they can be given at 12.34 hrs. the time when the Bill is being re- ferred to the Select Committee Or at MOTIONS RE: COMMITTEE ON the time when the Bill is sent back to PUBLIC UNDERTAKINGS-contd. the House by the Committee. The Speaker can give directions if he Mr. Speaker: The House will now thinks that there are certain things re- take up further consideration of the quired to be done at any time. Shri following mot;ons moved by Shri Ranga wants that I sh'ould direct that Nityanand Kanungo on the 21st Sep- the Commit.tese should go round the tember, 1963, namely:- country and take evidence. I may in- form him that in an earlier occasion 1. (1) "That a Committee of this when Shrimati Renu Chakravartty was House to be called the Committee on the Chairman of the Select Com- Public Undertakings be constituted mittee, such a request was brought to with ten members who shall be elec- me but I refused it. ted from among the members of this House according to thl' principle of Shri Ranga: But ~ ~ a constitu- proportional representation by means tional amendment. of the single transferable vote. 123 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on 124 Public Undertakings [Mr. Speaker]

(2) That ~ functlOns of the Com- (3) That the members of thL' Com- mittee shall be: mittee shall hold office for a periud of five years: (a) to pxamine the reports and accounts of the Public Under- Provided that one-fifth of the mem- 13k'ngs specified in the Sche- bers shall retire every year by rota- dule; tion and the members to retire by rotation every year shall be th'ose who (b) to examine the reports, if have been longest in office since their any, of the Comptroller and last election but as between members Auditor-General on the Pub- who were elected on the same day, lic Undertakings; those who are to retire shall be deter- mined by lot. (c) to examine in the context of the o o~ and efficiency (4) That in other respects n'e Rules of the Puulic Undertakings, of Procedure of this House relating to whether the afi',Jirs of the Parliamentary Committees 3hall apply Publi(, J ~ g are being with such variations and modifica- managed in accordance with tions as the Speaker may make. !;ound business principle:.; aJJd prudent commercial praclices; and ScHEDULE (d) such other fU'1ctions vesled in the Public Accounts Com- (List of Public Undertakings) mittee and the Estimates Part I Committee in relation 1'0 the (Public Undertakings established by Public U ndl'rtakings specified Central Acts) in the Schedule by or under the Rules of Procedur" and 1. The Damodar V'alley Corporation Conduct of Business of this 2 Corpora- House as are not covered by The Industrial F:n"'1ce clauses (a), (b) and (c) above tion and as may be allotted to the 3. The Indian Airlines Corporation Committee by the Speaker from time to time. 4. The Air India International 5. The Life Insurance Corporati'on Pr'ovided that the Committee shall not examine and investigate any 01 6. The Central Warehousing Cor- the following matters, namely: poration

(i) matters of major Government 7 Oil and Natural Gas Commission. policy as distinct from busi- ness or commercial functions of the Public Undertakings: Part II (Public Undertakings which are Gov- (ii) matters of day-to-day ad- ernment Companies formed under the ministration; Companies Act)

(iii) matters for the consideration Every Government Company whose of which machinery is estab- ann ual report is placed before the lished by any special statute Houses of Parliament under sub- under which a particular pub- section (1) of Section 619 A of the lic undertaking is established. Companies Act, 1956, other than the 125 Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee Oft u6 Public Und.!Ttakings Public Undertakings included in the privilege of moving these two Part III hereof. motions on the 21st September 1963. These motions have a chequered his- Part III tory. A similar motion was moved on Hindustan Aircraft Ltd., Banga- 24tb November '1961. The general lore election intervened in January 1962 and the present Lok Sabha came into 2. Bharat Electronics Ltd., Banga- existence after the general elections. lore A notice Of a motion was put on the 3. Mazagon Docks Ltd., Bombay agenda on 28th August 1962 but waa subsequently withdrawn and today I 4. Garden Reach Workshop Ltd., have the privilege of moving a motion Calcutta." which, I hope, will meet with the approval of the House. II. That this House recommends to Rajya Sabha that Rajya Sabha do It may be recalled that there waa agree to nominate five members from a debatf! in the Lok Sabha in Decem- Rajya Sabha to associate with the ber 1953 on a Private Members' Bill, Committee on 'Public Undertakings the Public Finance Control Board Bill. and on the constitution of the said The sixteenth report of the Estimate. Committee to communicate to this Committee also dealt with this ques- House the names of the members so tion at length. The late Speaker, nominated by Rajya Sabha." Shri Mavalankar addressed a letter to the Prime Minister, and I seek the 1111 m1 m lfm' ( 1 ~ ) indulgl'nce of the House to quote lTVr if, "r1: .q trol over autonomous and semi- ~ rrf; "!il{ . 1 ~ 'l6T f'f.'1lT 'f11T ~ autonomous corporations etc., there was a general feeling that a ~ ~ f,: f-si: ~~ 'fi1'fr ~ I Standing Parliamentary Commit- teI' might be appointed to see from 1111 ~ 5~ ~ J . ~ time to time how these corpora- ~ . ~ ir'f 'Ilf:'; I tions etc. were working and to make suggestions for improve- ~ ~ WT' . ~ roil' ~, there is no harm if a separate «11·'1' ,,!'fo'P 't;{ I ".:r' ili['ti'l'fr I Committee is appointed with limit- I'd functions, such as to examine The Minister of Industry (Shri reports and the working of such Kanungo): Mr. Speaker, I have had bodies after the reports are pre- 1383 (ai) LSD-6 , , Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on 12& Public Undertakings [Shri Kanungo] len ted to or are otherwise circu- legitimate grievances are not be- lated to members and on matters • ing throttled and there are safe- concerning their organisation, guards from the parliamentary working and administration. The point of view. proposed Committee will not go lnto the problems of day to day As the mattet has-cropped up admini:,;tration of such corpora- several times in the House and tions. but would only· consider there is a feeling about it, I see questiens of policy and their no harm in agreeing to the recom- ~o g broadly. mendations of the Hules Commit- tee for the constitution of a It ill conceded that Parliament separate Committee on autono- should have sufficient control over mous bodies. with functions a3 such bodies. The question is only specified in para 2 above. The how it should· be ensured. To Committee will, of course, work my mind, asking of questions or under my directions and it will be raising discusoions On the working my el'fort to see that they do not of such bodies by the whole House stray oeyond the functions assign- is neither desirable nor practica- ed to them or cause day to day ble. The corporations must be interference." left free in their day to day admi- Hon. Members will notice that the nistration and Ministers should motion which I have the privilege of not be called upon to answer mOlVing is almost the same as the detailed questions or discussions previous motions excf.'pt that the in the House except on such occa- following portions have been dropped: sions when questions of some general policy have to be raised (1) Second proviso to para 2 or discussed. It is also clear that which reads "provided further the Estimates and the Public Ac- that \';i lh regard to the public counts CommittC'f's are already undertakin/,,:s specified in Part over-burdened with the work as- lIT uf tl,,· "ch(':lu·c. the Com- signed to them and find very little mittee shall not ~ o or pur- time to go into (he workin/( of sue any procedurf.'s which are Corporations. I have also other not consistent with the inter- practical difficulties. Members are ests of securi ty". tabling a large number of ques- tions, resolutions and giving (2) That the Committee shall notices of discussions relating to have the power to examine these corporations. At present, witnesses so however that thev are disallowed on the plea such examination shall take that as these corporations have place in the presence of the their own constitutions and have a representatives of the Min- certain amount of autonomy, istries concerned. various Ministers are not directly concerned with the detailed as- (3) That as from the constitution pects of the matter and, therefore, of the Committee, the Esti- they should not be called upon to mates Committee and the answer them in the House. A Public Accounts Committee large number of notices are. there- .hall c .. ase to exercise their fore. disallowerl and this ~ calls- functions in relation to the fng an avoidable dissatisfaction public undertakings specified among the members. A via media in the schedule and steps has to be found. wherebv. mpm- shall be taken separately to bers are made to feel that their make separate amendments to Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee all 130 PubLic Undertaking. the Rules of Procedure and Several han. Members of Parliament Conduct of Business of this of both Houses have expressed their House. concern at the delay in setting up of this Committee. A$ far as Govent- Han. Members will notice that the ment is concerned they had accepted Schedule 1S divided into three parts the necessity of setting up a Special and Part III enumerates four under- Committee for Public Underaking, takings, i.e., Hindustan Aircraft, and in pursuance of that decision had Bharat E:ectronics, MazaGon Docks moved a motion in November 1961. and Garden Reach Workshop. These In earlier debates the ~ of establishments are almost wholly setting up a Special Committee had concerned with production for purpo- been expressed. The utility of such ses Of defence and as such any exa- a committee has been expressed in the mination of their affairs has to be following terms by a member of the conducted with due regard to the House of Commons in the United overriding requirements of security. Kingdom:- This purpose can be achieved as well and perhaps better when the Com- "Another important effect Of a mittee prescribe their rules under rule Select Committee should be to 282 of the Rules of Procedure of Lok elucidate the principal issues and Sabha or as the han. Speaker may direct attention to them. It is a direct from time to time under rule familiar defc-ct of House of Com- 283 of the Rules of Procedure. mons debates on wide topics, that the speeches deal with diverse A part in the Schedule is maintain- matkrs, and there is often no ed separately so that when any other thread of continuity or even a establishment is set up in this category meeting of minds. One speaker it may be added in this part. may discuss export difficulties, the next may expatiate upon some Regarding the procedure for exami- new safety device in the industry nation of witnesses and ensuring the which he thinks should be compul- presence of representatives of concern- sory, the next may ask about the ed ministries at such examination, the industry's long term development purpose can be achieved by the direc- programme. the next may criticise tions of the han. Speaker: disparities between wage rates. A general discussion of a nationalis- Para 2 (d) of the Motion provides ed industry could easily degenerate that the functions of the Public Ac- into one Of these rambling and counts Commitiee and the Esiim'.1tes discursive debates, with many Committee in relation to the public speeches delivered primarily for undertakings will be the responsibility constituency consumption. Usual- of this Committee. The purpose is ly the House is at its best in debat- that duplication and overlapping of ing a Bill or other document9 functions should be eliminated and the which specifies a limited number management of the undertakings and of issues uPon which Parliament Government need not be examined on has to pronounce. The simJllest the same matters twice over. At way to obtain the same precision present we cannot foresee where the would be to base th" debat.e upon areas of duplication or overlapping the matter contained in the Select would arise. This can be observed Committee's report. Parliament only by experience when the Commit- has learnt by experience that in tee gets into its stride. Therefore, it order to supervise administratioR is considered prudent to leave the it is necessary to appoint a small o~ o of any problems of this committee with power to send for nature to the directions of the hon. persons and papers-a procedure Speaker. which would enable the whole 131 Motions re: NOVEMBER 16, 1963 Committee on 133 Pu.blic UndertClkings [Shri Kanungo] matter to be investigated by call- tion or affect our creditor capa- ing witnesses and cross-examining city to be weli regarded abroad, thllm," Parliamentary control will be- come more real with the know- It would be a mistake for the ledge that Parliament will be Estimates Committee to undertake this concerned more with policy and work of investigating the nationalised with the advancement of the industries, It already has enough objectives of production as a work to do, and, moreover, it would whole and that it would take a almost inevitably apply the methods long term view rather than con- used in the case of government de- cern itself with the minutae of partments to the Boards, thereby des- administration. It would not be troying the flexibility of the Board the intention of Parliament., .. ", method of administration, Both the "'1'1 ~ . ~ ( ~ . : Public Accounts and the Estimates Committees should, in fact, keep clear W;'ral ~ 1, ll','f,fr!1' ;ifr fo'f''ifi ~ of the nationalised industries, ~ 1~ ~ ~. I Shri Kanungo: In a careful study of the problems "It would not be the intention of parliamentary control over public of Parliament that its control undertakings by a group of Members should be, or should appear, a9 a which included the laic Feroze Gandhi challenge or hindrance to the ini- who has been universally acknowledg- tiative of the man at the bench ed as a great parliamentarian, as also or at the desk. Parliament would Shri Mahavir Tyagi and Shri Dasappa desire its control to be real and the following views were expressed:- gainful. The knowledge in the public mind and even more of "We look forward to the situa- thosp immediately concerned, that tion where this Committee while Parliament is jealous of the by no mt'ans being an Expert standards of public conduct, which Committee (ouch is not the inten- includes industrial conduct and tion), would be a well informed tha t any serious breaches of them Committee, informed of all the irrespective of the immediate con- circumstances in which the con- tent involved would attract parlia- cerns function. The purpose of mentary attention is at once a our recommendation would be ad- wholesome corrective and an versely affected if either the Com- inspira tion. mittee of Parliament becomes im- One of the morc important bued with the feeling that it is a factors in Parliamentary interven- fault finding body or that it is a tion being at the optimum is that Super Board of Management. At Parliament should be well inform- the same time there cannot be ed It has been said that any fettering of its judgment and the expression of its views in good 'A well informed Parliament parliamentary traditions. The would choose to interfere as CommitteE' would also no doubt, little as possible in their bear in mind that any public ex- (nationalised undertaking) day- pressions of views which are in- to-day working'. tended (0 correct errors or to pro- The proposed Committee would vide greater incentives in respect be the new machinery for this of any concern or all of thE'm are purpose. Its composition should :. not of "uch a character as would be the concern Of Parliament not havE' the opposite result of lower- only from the point of view of Ing the concern in public estima- immediate political advantage or 133 M otiom re: KARTIKA 27, 18S5 (SAKA) CommItte>.: UJ_ 134 PubLIc Undenukings of patronage but in terms of long- that the enquiries of such a committee term vlsion and in the hope that wou:d 1I1oibit initiative, enterprise and this Conunittee would lay down a necessi ty of taking commercial riSKS, tempo both of the requ{red vigi- by the management boards, ana thus lance and the restraint and take the very o~ of setting uP these itself seriously. It may be hoped enterprises would be defeated. How- that Parliament by its own ap- ever, the working of the Committee proach wID" arso encourage both for more than-four years has belied initiative and long term planning those apprehensions. The reports of in Government concerns. In regard ,he Committee have steered clear of to both these, the Government the two extremes mentioned by Mr. undertakings are normally back- Bu('er and have been found to De a ward or very shy". very useful basis for the debatea in the House. The members of such a Committee will be elected by Parliament much However, we have to remember in the same way as the Public Ac- that conditions in the UK and in our counts and the Estimates Committees country arc entirely different. For are elected. These two committees, one thing the enterprises which were tnerefore, will cease to perform their taken over by Government for present functions in regard to the management like transport, power working of the concerns that come production, coal etc., had been work- under the proposed committee. ing for several decades under private Mr. Butler as Leader of the House ownership. The general industrial of Commons in introducing a similar climate and experience of manage- motion, gave a lead on the guidance ment was highly developed eompared that the House wished to give to the to our country. And all the public Committee:- 'mdertakings in the UK are governed by special statutes enacted by the "The reports and accounts reveal Parliament. wide range of subject matters all affecting the finances and effici- ency and SCOPe of the industries In our country, barring seven cor- which the Committee can usefully porations established by statute ot consider. But at its two ex- Parliament all the rest of the under· tremes- namely where the issues takings have been set up as limited invol ved are purely matters of companies governed by the Companies day-to-day administration at the Act and their number today is, 1 one extreme, and at the other believe, 52 and more are being added where they are matters of major up every year. The Companies Act government, as distinct from com- is a fairly exhaustive piece of legisla- mercial, policy-it is surely right tion as far as regulation of manage- ment of companies is concerned and that the Committee should not seek to trespass upon the autho- all Government companies have got to conform to all the regulations. rity Of these bodies respectively responsible, namely, in the one Besides there is a special chapter which is applicable to Government case the Corporations themselves companies only. It is obligatory on and in the others. thc' Ministers of the Crown." Government companies to prepare their annual reports and audited ac- It took more than five years for the counts within specified time limits for British Housp of Commnns to set up submission to both Houses of a committee of this nature which is Parliament. The accounts of the com- proposed now. It is curious that the panies are audited by auditors ap" leaders of the Labour Party were not pointed on the advice of the Auditor in favour of setting up such a com- Genera! and the Auditor General hag mittee. Their man ~ wa! powers ~o give instr\lctions to the 135 Motions re NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Ccnnmittee 0'1\ Public Undertakings [Shri Kanungo] auditors so appointed, and also he has To enable the members of the Com- the power to conduct supplementary mittee to discharge their responsibili- or test audit of the companies' acco- ties to both Houses of- Parliament, it unts. Therefore, there is double will be desirable that the membel'8 check on most of the public under- of this Committee are able to function takings in our country. for sufficient length of time to get themselves- familiar with the probleml Further, the autonomy of the public which are intricate. Therefore, it haa undertakin\:s in our country is ensur- been proposed that the tenure ot ed by the company form of organisa- membership of such Committee should tion inasmuch as the Gov(;rnment, he five years ... _ though they are hundred per cent shareholders in the companies than Shri Tyagi (Dehra Dun): Sir, I an ordinary shareholder in any ordi- just want to have a clarification. How nary company in our country. Of could it be for five years? course, the Government is responsible for the appointment of the Boards of Mr. Speaker: For the life of the . ~, ~ companies and a ~ o for the Parliament. memorandum of association which lays down the extent and limi tation Shrl Tyagi: How WIll the t"nure of of the operation of the companies and five years continue? We have a any amendment of the same. Govern- tenure Of three years only. Now it ment o ~ to th" Parliament from is being made five years. time to time when additional capital has to be invested in the companie9 Shri Kanungo: I am coming to it. but those occasions are rare. Mr. Speaker: The MinGter says, b. At present annual repo'rts and is coming to it. accounts of 60 undertakings are placed before both Houses of Parliament every year. The number is likely to Shri Tyagi: want a clarification. increase from year to year. Even now The Members of the Committee shall it is difficult to find time in the tight hold office for five years provided that schedUle of both Houses for discus- one-Iirfh of t11e Members shall retire sion of more than four or five reports every year. Even if in the beginnin, per year. It would be certainly use- of Parliament it is eleeted, the Mem- ful if the House is helped by reports ber who wilJ retire after the fourth of the Committee which is being pro- year cannot continue for five yean. posed now. The Committee will ana- This is something illogical. lyse reports and accounts of the parti- cular undertakings which it takes up Shri Ka-nungo: All the illogical in a year and by seeking further in- aspects can be pointed out in the iormation and discussions with the course of the debate. I have men- Board of Management of the under- tioned five years because this Is co- takings would high-light the prob- terminus with the term of the House lems and points to which the mem- itself. bers of the Houses can devote their attention in the debates that would Therefore, it has been proposed follow. Thus the Parliament will that the tenure of membership of keep itself Informed through its Com- such Committee should be five years. mittee of the progress or regress of It is noped that a convention will be pUblic undertakings and by ~ com- 'luilt up that whenever a vacancy ments and criticism encourage and occurs by rotation the re}>resentatioo ~ the efl'orts of the Boards of of various parties should not be dis- Management for better performance. turbed. 137 Moti()'l1.S re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee on Public Undertakings A word· about the second motion Shri A. C. Guha (Barasat).: Sir, 1 inviting the member of Rajya Sabha beg to move: to associate with this Committee. Lest That in the motion,- the phraseology Of the motion might be misunderstood, I would make ~ in the first paragraph,- clear that the wording of the o o~ is exactly the same as the motion ... ..~ "ten members" 8ubstitute- which is made for inviting members "fiftccn members". (1) of the Rajya ~ to the Public \ Sh' S N Chatllrvedl (Firozabad): Accounts CommIttee. It has been n.. made clear by the Hon. Speaker of Sir, I beg to move: the Lok Sabha and the Chairman of I That in the motion,- the Rajya Sabha that the membership I of the Public Accounts Committee for in paragraph (2) ,- members of either House carries the after clause (0), insert- same responsibility without any dif- ference. "(bb) to examine whether the organisational structure and pro- Shri Tyagi: The Rajya Sabha does cedures are conducive to maxi- not dissolve. mum efficiency and economy and make recommendations for their Shri Kanungo: Tnerefore, the mem- improvement;" (2) lie. ';lllp of this Committee will be on same terms, that is, without difference Shri A. C. Guha: Sir, I beg to or distinction but subject to the juris- movc: ;djction of the Han. Speaker of the That in the motion,- House of the Lok Sabha, as this Com- in paragraph (2) ,- m:ttee will be a Committee of the clause (c), Lok Sabha. ' after insert- "(cc) to suggest alternative By setting up the Committee on policies in order to bring oUl Public Undertakings, we are taking a efficiency and economy in admi- firm step forward in the process of nistration; quicker industrial progress and parti- (ccc) to examine whether the cu:arly of parliamentary accountabi- money is well laid out within the lity of ~ undertakings. It will limits of the policy implied in the be the privilege of the members of estimates;" (3). this Committee when formed to allay the fears and hesitations of m .. IlY and Shri Bade (Khargone): Sir, I be, "'eate a bond of confidence between to move: the Boards Of public undertakings and [he Parliament and also inspire the That in the motion,- public undertakings to greater efforts. in paragraph (2) ,- Thank yoU, Sir. after claUSe (d), insert- "( e) to exercise general super- Shri Tyagi: He has not given aay vision and control of those indus- "1 arification. tries in which Government hu whole or partial interest either Mr. Speaker: He has given Ql) ample financial or otherWise." (4). darification that all these illogics can be taken up during the debate. Shrl A. C. Guha: Sir, I beg to move: I have received notice of some That in the motion,- amendments to both the motions. The proviso paragraph (2). lIon. Members who wish to move them omit to may do so. (5). 139 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on 140 Public Undertakings Shrl B. K. Das (Contui): Sir, I beg Shri V. B. Gandhi: Sir, I beg to to move: move: That in the motion,- That in the motion,- in paragraph (2) ,- in PART II of the Schedule,-

JOT part (i) of the proviso, sub- (i) omit "other than the Public stitute- Undertakings included in "(i) matters of major Govern- Part III hereof; and mental policy as distinct from the principles underlying the efficient (ii) after the existing para- and economic functioning of the graph, the following proviso Public Undertak:ngs on sound be inserted-- business lines;" (6). "Provided that with regard Shri V. B. Gandhi (Bombay Central to the Public Undertak- South): Sir, I beg to move: ings specified in Part III of the Schedule, the Com- That in the motion,- mittee shall not adopt or in paragraph (3) ,- pursue any procedures which are not consistent JOT "five years" substitute "two with the interests Of se- years". (7). curity." (12). Shri A. C. Guha: S:r, I beg to Shri A C. Guha: Sir, beg to move: move: That in the motion,- That in the motion,- in paragraph (3),- in the Schedule,- jor -'five years" substitute "one omit PART III and the entries year". (8). thereunder. (13) . Shri B. K. Das: Sir, I beg to move: Mr. Speaker: There are two amend- ments to the second motion also. The- That in the motion,.- hon. Members who wish to move them in paragraph (3),- may do so.

for ...... e years" substitute "three Shrl A. C. Guha: Sir, I beg to move: years". (9). That in the mot.ion,-

Shri V. B. Gandhi: Sir, I beg to for "fiVe members" substitute move: "seven members" (1). That in the motion,- Shri S. N. Chaturvedi: beg to move: omit proviso to paragraph (3). (10). That in the motion,- jor "five members" sub,stitute Shri S. N. Chaturvedi: Sir, I beg t? "six members". (2). move: Mr. Speaker: Now, both the mo-- That in the motion,- !lons and the amendments thereto are before the House. in the proviso to paragraph (3) ,- Dr. L. M. Singhvl (Jodhpur): Mr. for "one-fifth" substitute "one- Speaker, Sir, I have submitted to you> third". (11). a letter today. Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1 ~ (SAKA) Committee on 142 Pub!ic Undertakings Shri Surendr.lll1!h Dwivedy (Ken- ceiver. That is the difficulty. The drapara): I have "orne amendments. law provides like that. We have to I had given notice previously in the take precautions lihat the things last session. I have given a fresh reach in time. In those cases, the notice today because it was not pos- amendments 01' th,' substitu1e motions ,ible to do it earlier. It was already had only to be repeated and, there'- circulated during the last session. fore, the han. Members concerned argued that the House had already Mr. Speaker: ~ han. Members had notice of those amendments and have been giving notices even of ad- SUbstitute motions. Therefore, I have journment motions for the last 15 waived the question of delay in the days. Could he not give notice of the rase Of the amendments and substi- amendment earlier? tute motions of those two ~ .

Shri Surendranath Dwivedy: On 13 hrs. the last occasion I had done it. You said that we will be permitted to Shri Daji: It should ordinarilY move the amendments have reached on the 14th, oecause it was posted by express delivery, and Mr. Speaker: They lapse. The han. it must Ihave reached by the 15th in Members ought to Ihave repeated any case. them. : r! Mr. Speaker: It was receive.d on Shrl Surendranath Dwlvedy: In he 16th at 5 p.m. this case I want you to relax the rule because it was already circulat.ed. Shri Indrajit Gupta (Calcutta South. West): That is the result of express Mr. Speaker: Dr. Singhvi's case is delivery! lust the same. He has also given notice today. How can I take them Shrimati Renu Chakravartty (Bar- up? It is difficult for me. rackpore): On this particular point, I would definitely ask the House to Shri Surendranath Dwivedy: If it condone the delay. The situation as was not circulated before, then what far as the Posts and Telegraphs you say is reasonable. Department is concerned is suc,h that it is absolutely impossible for the Mr. Speaker: If tl1e House so de- sender to guarantee ... sires, I will accept them. Th"n, it will not be possible to circulate them. Mr. Speaker: If the han. Member But thev must. be admissible. I will is requesting the House to condone accept them with the approval of the the delay, then, her mood should not House, if they are otherwise admis- be such. sible. I am not waiving that. condi- tion. Shrlmati Renu Chakravartty: think that every Member will condone Shri Daji (Indore): I have submit- it. If the delay could be condoned ted mv amendments on 13-11-63 by in the case Of those Members who post. There are several amendments. have not repeated the notices, T ~ r have sent them in one bunch. it can be condoned even more so m this ease because the Member .~ Mr. Speaker: I will find that out. taken the trouble of sending it on Shrl Daji: Holidays might have the 13th. Intervened. That is not my fault. Mr. Speaker: There is a difference. Mr Speaker: The post office is the Both cannot be kept pn the same agen t of the sender, not of the re- level. The House can, of course, can- ,143 MotiOTl8 re: NOVEMBER 18, 19fi3 Committee on 144 Public Undertakings [Mr. Speaker] done delay, and I have no objection Both these motions as well as the at alL But the two should not be amendments are now betore the taken together. House.

Shrimati Renu Cbakravartty: The Shri Tyagi: On a point of order. Member hias taken the trouble ot want to know whether this motion sending it on the 13th, and that too is a resol uti on of the House. or it j., by express delivery, and it should a standing order. I would 1ike to have! reached here on the 15th. If know w,hat the position will be. tt does not reaoh here, then, l]ow is Definitely, this is not a Bill. I want the Member to blame for it? We are to know whether this motion will be not in a court of law here. treated merely as a resolution or whether there will be any ch::nge in Mr. Speaker: We might not be in the standing orders and thi3 will be a court of law. Then too, it is a added to the standing orders. For, simple question ot procedure. Sup- my fears are that according to the posing it does not reach us at all, convention Of the British Par liarnent, then what can we do? Then, the resolutions or the House generally Member is not to blame, because he apply only to the session in whieh has posted it .... they are passed-the term 'session' means five years--unkss they are Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: We expressly passeeipt by to be repeated again and ag2in. the office that is to be considC'red and Mr. Speaker: Why does the hon. not the despatch by the Member Member not read from our rules which can be considered. instead of reading trom the conven- tions of the British Parliament? Sbrimati Renu Cbakravartty: Then, it is impossible for us to function. Shri Tyagi: OUnl toll ow a !imilar pattern. Mr. Speaker: If the House permits, have no objection. Mr. Speaker: No. Shri Tyagi: Special permission Shri Tyagi: Resolutions cannot may be given. It there is any. piec.e have standing force because . of wisdom there, we might pick 1t up Mr. Speaker: We are not to repeat the resolution every session. Mr. Speaker: That also might be considered_ Shri Tyagi: I am sorry. The rt"So- lutions which are ot an uperative .r. ~ fq ~ ) : lJU nature, resolutions by means o! whicll we are required to act will have to ~ ~ . ~ '1ft on: f<'f"lfT I be repeated otherwise, they will l'ave ~ 1!TTlR ~ flFlC m- ~ ~ I to be added to the standing orden . . . ~ ~ fg .q.JTT q-r 1 Mr. Speaker: There are so many committees that the House appoints ~~ ~ ~ every day. And they rem«in 1!l force for the term of the House. It wC'wd . ~~ iff\" ~ '\ft>r I) 145 Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee on Public Undertakings be a motion constituting a committee, Shrt A. C. Gulla: On a point of and it would last up to the de of the order. C1ause 2 (d) of the 1lir8t House. Of course, when !,'le new motion provides that: House comes, the old committee is dissolved, and the new House :hall "such other functions vested in have to take it up again and consti- the Public Accounts Committee tute the committee. and the Estimates Committee in relation to the Public Undertak- Shri Tyagi: AI! right, the rC'solu- ings spe<:ified in the Sohe- liOn fOr the election of the committee dule ...." alone would not do . . . . These functions will be covered by Mr. Speaker: The motion is the-re, the new committee. But rule 308(3) and it is a motion pure and simple. lays down the functions of the pubUc SUCh motions are provided for h our Accounts Committee as follows: rules. Our rules provide that such motions can be taken uP. So, there "It shall also be the duty of the is nothing peculiar in it. Committee-

Dr. I,. M. Singhvi: You :lave been (a) to examine the statemen\ pleased to observe that in respet '. of of accounts showing the income the amendments and my substitute and -expenditure oj' state cor- motion, the delay woul,j be condGned. porations, trading and manu- ~ . to their being o -.~ hcturing schemes concerns lind admissible. I submit that So far as projects og ~ with the my substitute motion is concrorntd, it balance-sheets and statements had already been admitted earlier, of profit and loss accounts .... and, there fore . . . (b) to exmine the statement Mr. Speaker: The e3rlier admission Of accounts showing the income was also subject to that condition. and expenditure of autonomous and semi-autonomous bodies, Shri Tyagi: My submission the audit of which may bb was this. The Estimates Com!11ittee conducted by the Comptroller and the Public Accounts Comr.1;ttee and Auditor-General of India are not constituted by resolutions of either under the clirections of the House. but their constitution has the President or by a statute of been included in the standinl( orders. Parliament; and Since the hon. Minister is c;"ing a similar thing now, why not include it (c) to consider the report of in the standing orders? lfue Comptroller an Auditor- Mr. Speaker: When he gets an General in case! where the opportunity, he might raise all those President may have required points. him to conduct an audit of any receipts or to examine ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ : it accounts of stores and stocks. ~ ~ JtSf"l? ~ lTi1' ~, ~~ lfiTIit In view of these provisions in the Rules Of Procedure, I do not know ~ ~ 'fit' ~, ~ ~ I wn: lfil' ~ how this particular clause can stand ;;rrtt fif; ~~ . ~ ;;rr .{i ~. <:l:r ~ CTT in this resolution. I would like to ~ '1ft ~ 'flIT 'iT ~ ~ ~ ~ have your ruling on this matter. '!lir I Shri Tyagi: I am not going .to surrender the rights of mv Commit- ~ ~ : ~ mr.w ~ tee unless the standing orders are ~ .q3fr ;;rr t;ft I ~ . by Parliament. 147 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on Public Undertakings Mr. Speaker: Hon Members will of the Lok Satha. Then, the Prime !have those o o ~ . If the House Minister met that objection and made constitutes that committee and vests the following observation: in this new committee certain powers that are vested in the other commit- "But the main point Cor the tees by our rules for the present, House to consider is thIS. This then, of course, it would be an Public Accounts o ~ has indirect repeal of those rules by this nothing to do with what 1 might House, for powers must have been cal! the financial powers of this taken ... House which, of course, are sup- Shri A. C. Guha: Would it not be reme in that matter. 'TherE is preferable that those rules should be another comm.ittee--lhe Esti- amended first and then these motions mates Comm.ittee. A dbtinction moved here? is made by us as betwCtll the Public Accounts Comn,ittec and Mr. Speaker: This is what I am the Estimates Committee," telling the chairmen of both the com- mttees. namely that they m.ight make So. he admitted that as g 1~ the their points, and then the House can estima tes the Estima tes Corr:m.ittee of iecide. because if these motions are this House was the supreme body, passed or adopted by this House. then and the Estimates Committee. as the the effect would be that this House mouth-piece of this Hou3c should has taken away certain powers from consider the estimates of Government. those comm.ittees, wlwch are vested Th€' Government is going to invest in them for the present under the about Rs. 200 crores every year in rules. Therefore. the House should these public undertakings. Already be aware of all that that is. by adopt- the investment is about Rs. 2.000 in this motion, ~ effect would be crores that. So, the two hon. MEmbers might make their speeches. and then Mr. Speaker: That wauld be the the Members can make up their minds speech of the hon. ~ ~ . The whether they are prepared to pass Prime Minister's statement 1~ =t in this or not. eluded in this. Shrl A. N. Yldya1ankar (Hoshiar- Shri A. C. Guha: No, Sir. I would pur): But nowhere has it been stated like to point out that paragraph 2 of in thi. motion that these powers are the Motion wiII take away the rights being taken away from the Public of the Estimates Committee to look Accounts Committee and the Estimates into the estimates which WIll be voted Committee. by (this House. estimates amounting to about Rs. 200 crores a year. I Shri A. C. Guha: It has been stated would like your ruling on this matter there. There is also another point of also. order which I want to raise. In 1953, Mr. Speaker: It is not a ~ where when the Prime Minister moved a my ruling is called for. He may resolution inviting the Rajya Sabha to ~ all these points whl'n he is nominate s('ven Members to associate given an opportunity. I wiII give with the Public Accounts Committee, him that opportunity. 'l.'hen the then ,he made a clear distinction bet- House will decide. ween the Public Accounts Committee and the Estimates Committee. Objec- Dr. L. M. Slnghvi: Shri Guha is tions were raised at that time that raising a constitutional question. He the Rajya Sabha Members ~o not says that if the Estimates Committee's ~ in any of those financial functions are also vested in this Com- cvmmittees, because the financial mittee. then this House will lose its matters were the exclusive privilege primacy in the matter of estimates. 149 Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee on ISO Public Undertakings This was the purport also or the 8hri H. N. Mukerjee (Calcutta earlier resolutiOn brought rtlrward by Central): May I make a submiSSion! the predecessor of the present Minis- If it is Wlder the terms of the COMti- ter wherein it was said clearly that tution itself that this House has a So far as the EstimaiE.l Committee's certain primacy in regard to estimates functiolls were concerned, the Mem Of revenues and if b.ecause of that bers Of the Rajya Sab:Ja would have the Estimates Committee is appointed, no right to participate. and is responsible solely to this House, Mr. Speaker: That does not need (f that is the basicalIy constitutional my decision. Members ~ take it provision, is it open to the House up. itsel1 at this present point 01 time to discuss the merits of a suggestion Dr. L. M. Singhvi: On the consti- which objectively means that esti- tutionality. mates in regard to certain matter.

Mr. Speaker: Ever. Gil the consti- may be examined by a bodv in which tutionality, the House has to decide, there would sit people who are not not the Speaker. Members of this House? If that is II basic constitutional proposition-am Shl"i. Tyagi: There is one more not a pundit-the matter should point. I would appeal to YOU to oo~ be stopped here and now and the into this matter because you are UltI- Government should come fot'Ward mately the custodian of the rights with its legal representatives to put and privileges of this House a, well forward its point of view. as of the taxpayers' monev. ~ Mr Speaker: First, I deny that estimates are to be approved uy thIS Shri 'Mukerjee's statement t;,at he ill Committee. I can well understand the position 1h"! either they coul.d not a pundit. He is a pundit in this sphere also. But he must know that take any Estimates Committee's bUSI- the Speaker docs not give a decision ness or they could take any work of on constitutional points. It is for the thc Public Accounts Committees. !"- House to decide. It today I decide Committee whiCh sanctions expr·ndl- that a matter is constitutional and it tUTe cannot itself sit aaain to re- goes to the courts and they decide that examinE; whr1her that was sound or it is not, probably the House will not not therefore. I submit that both like that situation to Jrise. ~ is these functions must be ~ 3. . The left to the courts. Both the cOllst!1u- Auditor General's position has been points as welJ as the ~ ~ kept absolu.t.ely lindependent v·ith a o ~1 merits are before the Home. The view to his heing able to ~ an judiciary cannot say that the House lndC'pendent eye on the expel' 'iture wns wrong in this or that; it can only sid., So ('om 1)inatir>n of both these give its own judgment taking aU ~ o might perhaps not be very things into consideration. healthy. Mr. Spea.kf'l': I have all sympathies Thl'refore the House takes the res· with the two Committees as welJ as ponsibili ty. 'It has the power tr> pas. thl'ir Chairmen. constitutional laws or measures or even to amend the Constitution. Let Shri A C Guha: I am lIot speak- the judiciary decide. ing as Chairman of the Estimates Committee. In 1961, I was not even Shlri H. N. Mukerjee: You have a member of that Committee and still put the position correctly but my l raised t;his objection. reeling is that when this matter ["me, before the House and the mt'mbers Mr. Speaker: That would be dls- of the Government party as well as cu.'sed hy the' House and the House of the Opposition eJCpre:>s their , o ~ can then decide. titutional doubts in regal"d to this lSI Moti07l.! re; NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on ISZ Public Undertakings [Shri H. N. Mukerjee] proposi tion, it is only fair that in the Mr. Speaker: Who said tihat? We House the legal advisers of Gcvern- are not doing that. ment should be present in order to explain these difficulties when they Shri U. M. Trivedi: Therefore, the are formulated. When I came into plain question arises. If a constitu- the House, the Chairman or the Esti- tional point has been made. if a cons- mates Committee was making his titutional difficulty has been pointcd submissions to you. I find the legal out, would it not be fit and P;:-0P!!f for advisers of Government are rlU'Nhere Government to eome and say what in the picture. We can do whatever thcy are doing in regard to it if it we can; the law courts can declare comes into conflict with the constitu- that We did some:hing wrong-that tional position? The very opening is a hypothetical matter. But lefore sentence here makes it viCry clear ... we do that, we are merelv put·.ing it before you so that you can adjure the Mr_ Speaker: Order, order. Again Government to do its duty which i' Members are arguing on that point. is neglecting. They are not present Of course, there may be manv things here to listen to the ~ J and consti- where it m::lY be said that thcy are tutional aspects of this matter, be- unconstitutional Or against the provi- cause one of their spokesmen has put sions of any law. But as I told this forward this proposition, which does hon. House I am not concerned at seem to have constitutional implica- this momen't with giving mv decision, tions. howevcr strong the case ~ be and whatever may be my thinking also on That is why I submit in all humility the subject. That is not my position that you might ask Governnlcnt to at this moment. do something in regard to satisfying the House--because some of Us are So far as C;overnment ~ concern- in some doubt over this matter- ed, their spokesman is here. He is even before we proceed to a :Hscus- listening to all the arguments sion of the merits, as to what exactly advanced. Of ('ourse, the prtsurr.p- their interpretation of the ('onstitu- tion is that before bring:ng forward tional position ~. this motion, they must have consulted their legal advisers. Otherwise, they Shri U. M. TrivedJ (Mandsaur): may not have brought this forward. 7'OSC- Mr. Speaker: This does not require Shri A. C. Guha: I do not think any further observation at t.his stage. so. Shri U. M. Trivedi: No, it does. I Shri Tyagi: They are a law unto wish to make my submission. Words themselves. have come out of your mouth which require some elucidation. You have Mr. Speaker: The Minister is lis- been pleased to say that we can make tening. He wilJ respect the wishes of any law... constitutional as well r.s un- hon. Member and bring in legal constitutional It is not th2t we advise also. That is what J can say. knowingly make an uncons!itution-al law. That is not possible. Shri A. C. Guha: I have another point of order. Mr. Speaker: We have made SO many laws that have been held to Mr. Speaker: How ~ nlOre has be unconstitutional. he in his bag? Shrl U. M. Trivedi: May be. They Shri A. C. Guha: I am not in the have been held to be. But we have habit of raising many points of order knowingly not done it. in this House; I 11m a very silent and 153 Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Comm'ttce on IS

Shri A. C. Guha: My apprehension Mr. Speaker: If there was a mis- Is that in the interim period, the t-ake committed by one Minister at Rajya Sabha Members will constitute one time, I cannot presume the same the quorum; they will convene a thing is being repeated now. meeting and do anything. T'1at is a possibility. That is the vacuum ~ Shri Tyagi: It is drafted by the will be created. That is why I am Rajya Sabha, because they have a bringing this to your notice and say- continuous life. ing that they have not consulted any Mr. Speaker: I have again and again legal advisers. submitted to the hon. Members that Mr. Speaker: Ir he is going to fay these are objections that they ca:l take everything now, what shall he say up during the speeches that they afterwards? make here. That is the proper time. All points must be made then, and Shri Tyagi: The Ministers can go the Minister then shall have the op- that wav and ridicule themselves by portunity to 'answer them. Then the not putting it in logical from. But House would make up its mind whe- how can the- House "l1ow it? We ther really it has been satisfied by the are consi.dering the motiun now. arguments or not. What they expect from me, I do not understand. Mr. 'Speaker: Order, ordell". The hOn. Member will realise that if Minis- Shri Tyagi: We always draw wis- ters are ridiculing themselves, tpe dom from you. House can throw out the Government. Dr. M. S. Aney (Nagpur): You Shrl Tyagi: ,How =an we permit were right in saying that in constitu- this thing to be considered. tional matters, it is for the House ISS Moti0n.8 re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on Public Undertakings [Dr. M. S. Aney] to decide, not for you. That is so, ed by SO manY Members, to get the but the question that you as the best legal aid they hoave for the guid- Speaker of this House have to guide ance and information of the ~ the discussions on this matter. Ir you bers. The Minister is listening to it, find that there are constitutional as mUch as I am doing. questions raised here which require to be properly considered, it is for you Dr. L. M. Singhvi (Jodhpur): May to say that those questions involve request yOU now ...... constitutional points, and the Minis- ters should be given an opportunity Mr. Speaker: No, I will not allow to explain, and then you should de- any more -discussion. cide whether those points can be de- cided or discussed in the House or not. Shri Bade: What is the time ellot- Mter that, the other part of the Bill ted? should be proce.eded with. That is Mr. Speaker: We will see. my humble submission.

Mr. Speaker: Can we proceed now? In addition to the amendments already moved, amendments 14: to 25 Shri Sonavane (Pandharpur): I and No.3 will be allowed to be moved. have to place my point of view. Shri Surendranath Dwivedy: I bel You were good enough to roy that to move: by passing this 'motion, the House automatically would divest of certain That in the motion,- powers vested in the Estimates and Public Accounts Committees and give in the first ~ g 31 h.- them over to the new committee. That is what I understood to be your in- far "ten members" substitute terpretation. But I feel that would "twenty members". (14) . not be a correct interpretation. Un- less the House pusses an expres< re- That in the motion,- solution divesting the Estimates and the Public Accounts Committees of after the ·first paragraph. insert the particular powers, and the House the following proviso,- decides to form a new committee with "Provided that a Minister shall thOSe powers, it would not be in not be elected a member of the order. That is my interpretation. Committee. and that if a member Shri lndrajit Gupta: In view of all after his election to the Committee, that has been said here and repeated is appointed a Minister, he shaIl by so many han. Members, would you cease to be a member of th-e Com- not consider it once agam, so that mittee from the date of such ap- the debate may be really fruitful and pointment." (15). not be just an expression of so many doubts and speculations? The hon. Shri Dajl: I beg to move: Law Minister 'may be asked by you to come here before the debate pro- That in the motion,- per commences on the merit, Of the resolution, to state before us wh3.t in paragraph (2), after clause (e) the Government's views are on these very weighty constitutional ques- insert- tions. "( cc) to suggest measures for Mr. Speaker: It is for the Govern- !:reaer and efficien t functioning in ment, when such doubts are ~ - such Public Undertakings;". (16). 157 Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee OIl 158 . Public Undertakina. That in the motion,- (c) That as from th-e constitution in clause (d) of paragraph (2), of the Committee, the Esti. omit- mates Committee and the Pub. lie Accounts Committee shall "and as may be allotted to the cease to exercise their ~ Committee by the Speaker from tions in relation to the Public time to time". (17). Undertakings specified in the Schedule and steps shall be That in the motion,- taken separately to make omit proviso to paragraph (2). necessary amendments in the (18) . Rules of Procedure and Con- duct of Business of this House. Shri Surendranath Dwivedy: ::'cg to move: (d) That a Minister shall not be That in the motion,- elected a member of the Com- mittee and that if a member omit part (i) of the proviso to after his election to the Com- paragraph (2). (19). mittee is appointed a Minister, he shall ceas-e to be a member That in the motion,- of the Committee from the date in paragraph (3) ,- of such appointment." for "five years" substitute "three (ii) That in the motion,- years". (20). after item 7 of PART I of the Sche- Shri Daji: I beg to move: dule, insert- That in the motion,- "and every Public Undertaking omit proviso to paragraph (3). that may b-e established by the Shri Yashpal Singh: I beg to mO\'e: Central Acts after the adoption of the motion by the House". That in the motion,- in paragraph (3), after the exist- Dr. L. M. Singhvi: I beg to move: ing proviso, insert- That for the original motion, the fol- "Provided further that the lowing be substituted, namely:- Chairman of the Committee be from amongst the members of the "That a Committee of this House Opposition Party." to be called the Committee on Pub- lic Undertakings be constituted with Shrl Daji: I beg to movp: twenty-one members, fourteen from this House and seven from Rajya (i) That in the motion,- Sabha, who shall be elected from among the members of each House after paragraph (4), insert- according to the principle of propor- tional representation by means of "(5) (a) That the Committee shall the single transferable vote. have the power to examine witnesses and to send for per- sons, papers and records. (2) That the functions of the Com- mittee shall be: (b) That the Committee shall, from time to time, report to (a) to examine the reports and both Houses of Parliament in accounts of the Public Under· respect of all or any of mat- takings specified in the Sche- ters examined by it. dule; 1383 (ai) LSD-7. 159 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on 160 Public Undertakina. [Dr. L. M. Singhvi] (b) to examine the reports, if any. takings specified in the Schedule and of the Comptroller and Audi- steps shall be taken separately to make tor-General on the Public necessary amendments in the Rules of Undertakings; Procedure and Conduct of Business of this House. (c) to examine, in the context of the autonomy and efficiency of (6) That the members of the Com- the Public Undertakings, wh-e- mittee shall hold office for a period of ther the affairs of the Public two years: Undertakings are being Provided that a Minister shall not managed in accordance with be elected a Member of the Committee sound business principles and and that if a Member after his election prudent commercial practices; to the Committee is appOinted a Min- (d) such other functions as are ister, he shall cease to be a member of at present vested in the Public the Committee from the date of such appointment. Accounts Committee and the Estimates Committee in rela- (7) That in order to constitute a tion to the Public Undertak- sitting of the Committee, the quorum ings specified in the Schedule shall be seven. by or under the Rules of Pro- C'edure and Conduct of Busi- (S) That in other respects the rules ness of this House notwith- of this House relating to Parliamentary standing the foregoing exami- Committees shall apply with such nation in clauses (a), (b) and variations and modifications as the (c). . Speaker may make. (9) That this House recommends to Provided that with regard to the Rajya Sabha that Rajya Sabha do agree Public Undertakings specified in Part to associate with the said Committee V of the Schedule, the Committee shall and communicate to this House the nm adopt or pursue any procedur-es names of the Members to be appointed which are not consistent with the in- by Rajya Sabha. terests of security. SCHEDULE (8) That the Committee shalJ have (List of Public Undertakings) the power to examine witnesses and PART I to send for persons, papers and re- cords: (Public Undertakings established by Central Acts) Provided that Government may dec- line to produce any papers and records 1. The Damodar Valley Corpora- on the ground that such disclosure tion. would be prejudicial to the safety or 2. Th-e Industrial Finance Corpora- interest of th-e State. tion. 3. The Indian Airlines Corporation. (4) That the Committee shall, from time to time, report to both Houses 4. The Air India International. of Parliament in respect of all or any 5. The Life Insurance Corpora- of matters examined by it. tion. 6. The Central Warehousing Cor- (5) That as from the constitution of poration. the Committee, the Estimates Commit- tee and the Public Accounts Commit- 7. Oil & Natural Gas Commission. tee shall cease to exercise their fURc- 8. The Employees' State Insurance tions in relation to the Public Under- Corporation. 161 Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee 011 162 Public Undertaking. 9. The Khadi & Village Industries Shri Daji: The Committee on public Commission. Wldertakings has been conceived Wlder 10. The State Bank of India. an inauspicious constellation of stars, and it has taken more than a conven- 11. The Reserve Bank of India. tional. nine months to be born. It was 12. The Bombay Port Trust. conceived in 1959, there was an abor- 13. The Calcutta Port Commission. tive attempt in 1961, then again some time last year, and finally now, almost 14. The Madras Port Trust. at the fag end of 1963 we are able to debate this resolution the Govern- PART II of ment. (Public Undertakings which are Gov- 15.26 hrs. ernment Companies formed Wlder the Companies Act) [MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER in the Chair.]

Every Government company whose I think there would be almost unani- annual report is placed before the mity on one point, namely that the Houses of Parliament under sub-sec- undertakings of our public sector need tion (1) of section 619A of the Com- a committee of Parliament for better panies Act, 1956, other than the Public review, better control, better gathering Undertakings included in Part V here- of information and also better dis- of. charge of democratic control which is the sine qua non of democratic owner- PART III ship in the public sector undertakings.

All Departmental Industrial and Before I propose to deal with the Commercial Undertakings of the Gov- merits of the motion before us, let me ernment of India. say a word about the performance and prospects of our public sector. Our PART IV public sector undertakings are under constant pressures and comtant at- All companies and Undertakings in tacks. Broadly speaking, the attacks which the Government of India hold on the public sector are directed from 25 per cent. or more of the equity capi- two opposite ends. One angle of attack tal. on our public sector is that so ably PART V championed by the han. Member from Rajkot who, when he spoke last time 1. Hindustan Aircraft Ltd., Banga- on the No-Confidence Motion, painted lore. a totally dismal and negative picture of the performance of the public sec- 2. Bharat Electronics Ltd. Banga- tor, ran it down, and even said that lore. instead of sinking so many crores of 3. Mazagon Docks Ltd., Bombay. rupees in the steel plants, it would have- been more useful and fruitful if 4. Garden Reach Workshop Ltd., that amount had been invested in some Calcutta." consumer industries. That is a definite philosophy which he reflects, and of Shrj Surendranath Dwivedy: I beg which he is the spokesman. That bo move: philosophy represents the wound that That in the motion,- the high barens of the private sector feel at the growth of the public sector. for 'five members' substitute 'ten They are wounded deeply, and I say members'. (3). that the country and the people enjoy their critieism. The more vehemently Mr. Speaker: These amendments Gre the public sector is criticised by belore tIre House. gentlemen of the private sector, the Motions re: NOVEMBER IB, 1963 Committee on 164 Public Undertaking. [Shri Daji] more people are convinced that ~ the test of competition with the pri- is something good in the public sector, vate sector. I venture to offer some because the people have come to know criticism on the working of the public that what is to the liking of the big sector solely from this angle, sharply business is certainly not to the good dissociating myself from whatever may of thoe country, and that what is not be spoken from the other angle. to their liking is certainly to the good of the country. Even this sheer logic It strikes us that not only the philo- of exclusion makes us enjoy their at- sophers of the Swatarilra group, not tacks on the public sector. They make only the high priests of the private an all-out attack on the pulic sector sector but the Government themselves because the growth of the public sec- have a rather lukewarm, step-mother- tor means the abridgement of the area ly attitude towards the public sector. of loot of the private sector. and th(' To begin with I can never understand more the public sector grows. the more why officers found not fit to be em- they fear that their area of operation. ployed in other departments of the their area of loot. which thev claim Government by reason of superannua- has for centuries been their sole pr(>- tion are supposed to be fit to man high serve. is being slowly abridged. nar- posts of general managers, directors, rowed. resident directors and chairmen of these tmdertakings.

If things go according to our Five Shri Tyagi: Because they are not Year Plan, with a little modification through Public ~ Commission. here and there. by the end of the Th ird Plan. out of the total industrial life. Shri Daji: I say that the private sec- public sector will own 25 per cent. and tor mentality of disparaging and look- over 33 per cent in mineral production. ing down upon public sector has in- To that extent, private monopoly loot vaded Government that is clear from is being restricted, and it is this that the sort of appointments made. It hits them, and the more it hits them. seems public sector posts are being the more it pleases us. made into sinecure for persons who can dance around and with such per- sonnel yOU cannot expect the best re- I can only say that the hon. Membl'r sults. is in spite of these officers from Rajkot seems to have forgotten It that some of our public sector under- even the ABC of economics which he takings have given the best results; it wrote some years back. which we read is because of the dedication and deter- and learnt. He has now ~ his mination of the workers and ordinary economics at the ~ of mighty ty- technicians who want to make a new coons of the private sector, and there- India. fore he views the Whole economic growth of the public sector with In addition to the export of retired coloured glasses. officials from the Government to the public sector, there has been an export There is another angle of criticism of the bureaucratic administrative of the public sector which does not mentality. I am glad that recently our disparage the public sector, which does Minister of Heavy Industries has been not want it to cease to function but to going round the country speaking firm- prosper, which criticises because it ly about this mentality and the harm feels that unless the public sector per- it has done. It is on record that an in- formance is improved, unless it is dent for spare parts required imme- tightened, unless better managerial diately takes two years to be sanction- control is exercised over the public ed: from plant to Ranchi, from Ranchi sector, unless the public sector is able to Delhi, from Delhi to Ranchi, Ranchi to deliver better goods, it will not stand to plant, from plant to mpply officer, Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee on 166 Public Undertaking. then again to Delhi for tenders, then Unless we are able to do that We will back again to Ranchi and then to plant. not be able to make public sector In this condition no public sector con- really competitive and effective force. cern, no concern worth the name can The difficulty is that our officers be expected to function efficiently. whom we have inherited from In many cases the posts in the public the British administration are not undertakings are treated as sinecure imbued with the new spirit of posts to be offered to desired persons. public sector. Their ideology and We take the German specification, or thinking is such tha t results in the Russian specification or the Swiss serious malpractices. I want to cite specification ~ ask our employees to two startling malpractices. There are fulfil them. Very good; they should do four senior officers in Heavy Electri- it and in many cases our Indian tech- cals, Bhopal: manufacturing engineer, nologists have done it. In HMT Ban- superintending engineer for fabri- galore, we have beaten the best ten- cations, assistant works manager and ders from Europe; we are proud of it. executive engineer of works depart- But when it comes to officials, I may ment. Their relatives have got a pri- say that Rourkela has got four times vate sector firm just near the H.E.L. more headquarters staff than any other Not only are orders placed on that plant anywhere in Europe. Such is the firm-I am making this statement with over-burdening of the headquarters full responsibility and I am ready to staff. I t is stated in the report. It is substantiate this charge in any enquiry not so in Rourkela alone. In Bhilai it that may be held-but workers are is like that; in other places it is like marked present in attendance register that. There are officers and officers. If in H.E.L. and are sent to work in the any relative, kith and kin has got to be relative's industrial concern o ~ the provided a cushioned job and paid street. They are people occupying high money for doing nothing, plant him on posts and stores are also transferred. iI public undertaking as some officer In Bangalore the brother of the chief :ruch as public relations officer, labour executive of a public undertaking is in adviser, legal adviser, purchase advi- collaboration with a foreign company !er or supply adviser. There are so and there the some thing happens. Parts many advisers. are manufactured in HMT but they are There is another aspect also. The meant for the other collaborating com- hon. Minister says that things are go- pany and are sent there. Because of ing to improve; let us hope so. Initial- the bureaucratic attitude of the Gov- ly I said that I did not subscribe to the ernment, whenever such malpractices Swatantra ideology and I did not work are brought to their notice, instead of out like Mr. Masani and did not say instituting an enquiry and coming that the return is 0.3 per cent return down heavily on the culprits, they just on share capital. Many other aspects postpone things and want to hide them. have to be considered while talking of Such whitewashing by the Government the efficiency and return of the public stifles the growth of the public sector. !ector concerns. There are the social One of the greatest blights of public end! and needs. Bhilai, Durgapur and sector unfortunately is the very bad Rourkela may not make profit in thoe industrial relations: industrial re'a- normal sense during the gestation tions are at a low ebb due to the period. But the saving of Rs. 300 bureaucratic tendency of the offi- crores in foreign exchange effected by cers and something else also. them is a national asset. Having ac- Politic5 enters the industrial re- cepted all that, one must say that at, a lations in public sector plants in certain point of time, at optimum effi- a much bigger way than even ciency, normalisation of production in the private sector plants. The ten- costs must result. If that did not hal>- dency to boost up unions which subs- pen, the working should be reviewed cribe to the ideology of the ruling to see what is wrong and where. party is so much in the public sector. 167 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on 168 Public Undertaking. [Shri Daji] It is not so much in the private S"eCtor every tripartite meeting, of course because ultimately an enlightened em- gives a long lecture saying, "do not go ployer in the private sector feels· I to the high court or the Supreme Court must get my work done and SO let me against the award of the industrial tri- carryon with whoever is there. In pub- bunal. Make it final becaus-e it is lic sector it is not so. Industrial rela- modern arbitration." But the preach- tions in the public sector require to be ings of Shri Nanda do not hold good studied. In fact, I sug.:cst that the for the public sector and the employees Labour Minister, Shri Nanda, who is there must go from pillar to post to also now the Home Minister, together get justice. These ~ only small with Shri C. Subramaniam, the Minis- examples. rer of Heavy Industry, should imme- diately call a tripartite industrial com- There is another point that arises. mittee of all public sector undertakings The tripartite committee came to a to discuss threadbare the present la- unanimous decision, and it was agreed bour relations. Today, I have got a to by the employers, the Government communication from a union at Pimpri. and the employees that contract labour The other day, I attended the function should be· abolished by 1st December, in Vigyan Bha\"an ,;hen Shri Nanda distributed some prizes--the Presi- 1962. We are now nearing 1st Decem- ber, 1963. While contract labour has dent's Awardl'r-and Pimpri was one been abolished in mines owned by the of them. From Pimpri comes the com- private employers, the Bhilai ~ munication from the Union represent- ed by none else than Shri Khadilkar. mines have refused to abolish contract Congress MP, to the Members of Par- labour. While the private employers have been forced to abide bv this liament, saying how the public s-ector undertaking deals with its own em- agre-ement, the public sector mines re- ployees whose leader is a Congress MP, fuse to do away with the contrart labour. What doe;; the worker in the Shri Khadilkar. What dops it S3V? mines get? H(' gets, ~ in ~ After four years of frelting and fight- ing before the industrial court he:lded days, only Rs. -~-O or Rs_ 1-4-0 per by Justic-e Mehr. the workers got an day. In these conditions. the public' Bwardfixing the minimum W'I"es ~ I C;I H '10t \':ork ~ 1 .I 1 S.1s thf'l'(' scales of pay. dearness allowance: ;t(': is " challenge to t1,' very O ~ of tbe public sector trum the tycoor.s of of the workers at Pimpri. a pro'perin.: concern. The award was given. :lnd the privat.(' s(·('tOr a!Jr Ill' ~ defc'n- ders of the public sector are the work- after .three and a half ~3 th,· work- ers got a minimum wage. But this ers. Give the workers a fair deal. and give them encouragement and give Pimpri, a public s-ector company, ~ decided to go in appeal to the Sup- them the opport unity for participation reme Court over the award of the in- in the manage nent; g ~ every demo- dustrial court, and thus make it im- cratic control for the workers ~ the possible for the workers to get justice. manac,emcnt. With one stroke, do because this union, as it is mentioned away with bureaucratic administration here. consists of 1,400 workers, paying and also inspire and enthuse the wor- a subscription of four annas each; for kers with a new vigour to see that ~ the public sector company, it was a public sector undertakings run and Central Government might, pitted prosper and are successful. It is only against the union, and the company when you take the industrial workers went in appeal just because the work- into confidence and give them a demo- ers were bold enough to stand up to cratic control of the public sector that the injustice and then win -the award the public sector shall really be a in their favour. public sector, The point, therefore, ia how we are Our hon. Minister, Shri Nanda, in going to bring about a democratic 169 Motions re: KARTlKA 27, 1685 (SAKA) Committee on 170 Public Undertaking.

control of the public sector. Various crossed swords with Shri Sarabhai Oil views have been expressed. The this problem. That suggestion was other day, in a seminar held by the meant absolutely to scuttle the prul- FlCCl, a really novel suggestion was ciple or the very concept of the pub- made by nO one else than the leading lic sector: to invest money and pick a industrialist, Shri Sarabhai. He made company to hold it and to run it as a very novel suggestion. The sug- a private company. r do not sub- gestion was that to improve the scribe to it, because it is dangerous. management of the public sector plants, the management shOuld be There were other suggestions also given over to.a private company as a In this regard: for example shares holding company, so that the owner- may be floated in the market; let the ship will be of the State. It will be a shares of the public sector be put in public ownership under private man- there. On this, r must congratulate agement. So he pleaded that this Shri Bhagat who flatly contradicted will give better results. He said after the suggestion in the Rajya Sabha. I all even in the private sector indus- thIDk the Government shOUld take tries it is like that; the owners are this opportunity of fla tly denying not shareholders and all of them are and tontradicting this suggestion as not under a managing agency; only absolutely nonsensical, the suggestion one holds a managing agency and of Shri Sarabhai, who wants to use runs the industry. So, he said that public money and obtain private that principle should be applied to management of the public sector un- the public sector. That was the sug- dertakings. gestion made by Shri Sarabhai in the When we say all this, we must re- presence of Shri Subramaniam at the member one thing. We must have seminar of the FlCCr and where so full faith on an effective democratic many of our illustrious leaders of control over the public sector. Demo- the public sector including the Chair- cratic control is always pitted against man of the HEL, Pimpri Chairman efficiency by these bureaucrats who and the Secretary. the Financf' Minis- want to run the undertakings in their try, Shri Jha were present. But r own way. If democratic control is was surprised to find that not one of denied, then public ownership is also them stood up and contradicted him negatived. The very concept of pub- and say this i5 humbug. bogus and lic ownership incl udes the concept of bunkum and nonsense, this sugges- democratiC control, and democratic tion of letting the private sector hold contrOl under our present circum- the public sector as a holding com- stances is a control by Parliament. pany, importing the principle of But Parliament is a big body; to have 'holding' in this matter. effective control of the growing nexus of public sector undertakings, the Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Mr. Public Accounts Committee or the Jha subscribed to that. Estimates Committee had searching eyes to go into the question of the Shri Daji: Not one of them sup- working of these undertakings. But ported it. But the ex-Finance Secre- the Estim!ltes Committee and thE' tary, Shri H. M. Patel, who is now Public Accounts Committee have the Chairman of the State Electricity various other activities also, various Board, Gujarat a person who featur- governmental activities. With all thE.' ed in the ~ Mundhra kand, of burden of that work, it is very diffi- course, supported Shri Sarabhai and cult to see how these two Committees said there was something in that sug- could have a continuolls watch on gestion which should be examined. the work of the public sector under- What pained me is this. NO'Ile of takings. r think. therefore, that it these managers of the public sector is the function of separate Commit- who were present there stood up and tee like this, holding powers, both of 171 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on I 72 Public Undertaking, lShri Daji] the Public Accounts Committee and Dr. M. S. Aney: They have I..opied the Estimates Committee, and form- it here. ed by this Parliament, to keep a con- Shri Daji: Not wholly copied. Th€y tinous vigil over the working of the requested full powers to the Com- public sector undertakings. I think mittee. The first Conservative Gov· that there should be no misgivings ernmcr;l did not accept that advice. about such a Committee. I think and ~3 the.·... restricted ~ of l'e- even the Government is now not ferenc·e. The ~o . was that the very sure and not very clear and is Committee came back to Parliament not very confident about giving full and said "We refuse to work with and square powers to this Commit- these ~ of reference; we cannot tee. It is miserly. The Minister just work." Then a second Committee now said let Us watch and see how was appointed and that Committee it is goil;g. There is nothing to fear was given wider, plenary powers. or lose confidence about it. After all, The first sentence of that resolu- the Committee shall be manned by tion has been copied here. The Members who are responsible. The puwers given to the Eng!ish Com- Committee shan not be an enemy, it mittee were "to examine the shall not be a critic it shan not be a reports and accounts of public under- fault-finding body, but it shall be a takings specified in the Schedule." confider and shall be a protection That was the only one sentence that against 'irresponsible pressures as was included. Explaining it, Mr. well as the guardian Of public inter- Butler said that it will include finan- est. It will be a Committee which cial outcome of operations, working shaH be responsible and shall func- of the industry with reference to de- tion vis-a-vis Parliament, and volution of authority, working oC the correlate information regarding the industry with reference to techni- working of public sector undertakings ques of management, recruitment vis-a-vis the management of public and training relations with consum- fector undertakings, and explain ers relations with outside industries, what is required by them to Parlia- un;emunerative responsibility Of the ment, and put their difficulties before Board etc. The Government of Eng- Parliament; vis-a-vis the Government. land left it to the good sense of the they should examine how far the Committee by its OWn conventions, Government is fulfilling its duties by to establish the conduct of non-inter- having just the minimum interference ference in day-to-day administration and at the same time the necessary or in government's policies. check on the working' of the public sector undertakings. Her" we find that what We are giv- ing with one hand we are taking by Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hun. the other. There are provisos added· Member's time Is up. saying that the Committee should not do this. the Committee should not do Shri Dajl: I will take some mure that. What is significant is that the' time. These are the aspects ints Committee has not been given clear- which the Committee will have to go. ly the powers to call for documents, Now, the hon. Minister referred to reports and papers and also to take' !he Committee in England. The Com- evidence. I do not know whether it mittee in England itself was as a re- is thought that this Committee being sult of another Select Committee the inheritOr of the rights of the' which was appointed to examine Estimates Committee and the Public' what the powers of the Committee Accounts Committee will automati- would be, and the Select Committee's cally get those powers. But why terms of reference were exactly in should that be left in doubt? With- terms of those found here. out the necessary power for surnrnon- 173 Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee on 174- Public Undertaking. ing witnesses or for requIsitioning sacred as Government conduct This docwnents from the undertakings or Committee can become the watchdog departments concerned this Com- of that. mittee will only be 'an ornamental committee. If you do not give full Then, I personally do not appre- powers to the Committee and make ciate this provision of rotational re- it only an ornamental committee, I tirement of members. I am very glad say it will be a nuisance committte. the Minister said that a convention With divided powers it is bound to can be built up that when a member create more nuisance. Give it more retires, a member from the same party powers and responsibility, and it will shOuld be elected again. I do not function in a more responsible way. understand this clumsy rotation busi- That is why, Sir, I have moved an ness after everyone year. There amendment-Dr. Singhvi and others should be some continuity. Make its also have moved similar amendments life two years, three years or even to that effect-seekini: to give more five years-of course, if yOU make it powers to this Committee. The power five years there is the difficulty that to call for reports is absolutely was pointed out by Shri Tyagi. But necessary. the term of the Committee should not be too short. It should be long I have also suggested that the re- enough for experience to be accumu- ports of the Committee may be plac- lated. At the same time, this princi- ed on the Table of th.e House. It ple of rotational retirement should shall be placed before Parliament for not be there. It is not there either in discussion every year. That is the the Estimates Committee or in the practice in England. I suggest that Public Accounts Committee. It should that provision may also be included not be there because this rotation here. I do not understand why the principle is bound to work against Government is SO miserly about it, smaller grOUPS, and smaller opposi- why tDe Government is So nervous tion parties will suffer. It may not about giving powers to this Commit- always be possible to follow the tee. Such doubts were also expres- convention. sed in England. After a review that has been taken, the uniform opinion Shri Bade: It may exclude opposi- now is that the committee has had a tion Members. salutary effect, it has posted Parlia- ment with better information, for the Shri Daji: Any time it may exclude Minister it has meant a closer scruti- opposition Members. ny and for the directors of the boards it has meant better understar.ding. There is another point on which I This is the conclusion of Mr. Davis, have given an amendment. We want a Member of Parliament, given in an it to be made clear that Ministers article on the working of the Com- shOUld not be members of the Com- mittee in England. mittee and any member who becomes a Minister should resign from the Therefore the first point is, il you CommiHee. This is a Committee of want this' Committee to be really the House. We do not want any mix- effective clothe it with fun powers ing up Of the Government with the and responsibility. Trust the Com- Committee. With all respect Sir I mittee and I am sure that trust shall say, let the members o o~ with- not ~ misplaced. The Committee if out the overbearing eyes of the Mi- trusted and given full powers shall nisters sitting there. I do not want be able to really work as the comci- to enter into any controversy about ence of the nation to guard against it, but I haVe found how sometimes public misconduct whether il be in the presence of Ministers has aft'ected any industry or Government. Public the independence of Members. I have conduct in a public industry is also as moved a clear amendment to that 175 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee 01\ Public Undertakings [Shri Daji]

effect, This convention is also there J.aipur has got any ~, the pub- in England, In England many things hc sector hBs to expand so fully as are done by conventions. England to become the main fulcrum of eco- has no written Constitution even, nomic activity and it should be able But here we do not keep our conven- to account for the major produce in tions so sacred. Therefore it is bet- our industrial undertakings. It ter that we write them jo~ clemJy. shOUld be the private sector which should be on apologetic terms it There are some other ~ should be the private sector which which I am sure other hon ~ should be- at sufferance and it sholJld wJ!l take up, but I want ~ say only be the public sector which should this, that this Committee should have dominate, which should be at the a say over all the public sector un- mounting heights of our economy, dertakings. Let there be no excep- Whatever the spokesman of the SWB- tion to It. Then the whole cumber- tantra Party might say, whatever the wme scheme of the schedule may be prophets of doom may prophesy; done away with by only one sentence, do say that India has to march on that all public sector undertakings, to socialism, march on to a welfara whether they are corporate bodies, St3te, march on to a new India, other institutions Or companies incor- developing India into a neW Indepen- porated under the Companies Act. dent India, and in economic te:ms it ~ all be under the control and has got to take to the form of public scrutiny of this Committee. I do not sector. So when public sector grows. understand why there should be this let this Committee be given full schedule. Some of the units have power and responsibility armed with been omitted and some hon. Members whiCh this Committee shall function haVe given amendments speking to as the watch-dog both of the ~ ~ add ~ unit and that unit. Instead of thr> public sector, the public, the of all that I suggest that with (lnc ~ ann exercise financial sentence, as I havc submitted earlier. Control. we can bring nll the public undert1k- ings under the control of thi.' Shri Bade: May I know, Sir, how Committee, much timp is fixcn for this disclls,;ion'!

I submit in conclusion that the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Let 11>; se-c. public ~ undertakings' are going to gain in import1nce. I do not want Shri S. M. Hanerjee ~ J.C't to gloat over it and say that public us fix some minimum time for this. sector means socialism as some hon. Members claim it to be. At the same Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It will go time. I do not say that public sector over to tomorrow. is a negation of democracy as is said by the Swatantra Party. I do say Shri A. C Guha: Mr. Depuly- that public sector has helped thi: Speaker. Sir, while speaking On thl' growth of the sinews of new India. motion of t'be Government, the first and as the new India marches on the thing that strikes my mind is the public sector has to expand rapidly. attitude of indecision, vacillation anti It has got to expand and not in an confUsed thinking on the part of the apologetic manner. Even now th" Government. A very simple propC'sal policy followed by the Government is to be put before the HOuse that a in regard to public sector is apologeti- Committee of this House is to be set cal. When a certain trade or indus- up to assist the Estimates o ~ try is taken in the public sector, the and the Public Accounts Committee Government is apologetic about it. If in regard to the examination of the the socialism to which the Congress working of the public sector under- has sworn and tried to reaftlrm at takings, That simple proct!lls they 177 Motions re; KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee on 178 Pu.blic Undertaking. have avoided, and year after year, for acceptable form so that a Committee the last three years we have been of this House may be set up to experiencing the way in which the examine the working of the public mind of the Government has beea sector g~, Government working on this question. delayed the matter till the last d'.lY of the previous session. Sir, in 1961, I think in November, they moved a motion which ~ couched in a worse form. It contain- Of course, there have been some ed some worst clauses and I raised a improvements in the wording of the point of order. It should be made resolution presented today, as com- clear that I am not speaking here to- pared to the one given notice of last day us a member of the Estimate3 year, whiCh again was better than the Committee, not to speak of as th(' one brought forwad in 1961. The Chairman of the Eotimates Com· main objection at that time was that mittee. In 1961 I was not even a it was to be a Joint Committee and m('mber of the Estimates Committee this House had to share with the Yet, I raised certain objections to thl' members of the other House certain motion as then worded. I spoke then. financial obligations the discharge cf and I speak now, as a member of this which is the absolute privilege of this House to safeguard the rights and House. Now they have agreed to put privileges of this House and to see forward the proposal in a modified that any Committee of this House form, under whiCh the members of the may be empowered with proper Rajya Sabha will only be associate authority to conduct the business and members, as they have been in the discharge the obligations put on it. case of the Public Accounts Commit- tee. I do not know what the status, 14 hrs. rights and privileges of the associate members in this Committee will be. In 1961, the Speaker gave certain Even in the case of the Public Ac- decisions on my point of order and l'ounts Committee it remains more or the Law Minister had to come to ~ less undefined. I do not know what h('lp of the then Industrie:; Minister will be the reaction of the members and he agreed to modify thc resolution of the other House to their being re- according to the directives of the legated to the position of associate Speaker. So. it was Our expectation members, who are sure],' not fllll that he would COIr.C before this members. o ~ within the life-time of that ,'cssion .. which continued far about Here I do not like to make any as- three more weeks after that deb?te on persion on the dignity of the other that motion. But. for reasons best House which is also a supreme body. known to them, Government did not That HOUse has its own privileges, as bring forward the resolution in the this House has its privileges. The modified form in that session. Then, privileges of this House concern last year, eVl'n though a notice of a mainly with the financial matters of I'<'solution was given in August they the Government of India. So, that did not actually move the resolution, position should be clearly understood and we do not know for what reason. and clearly maintained in w!1at8ver Again, this year, after much hesita- step we may propose to take. tion, they brought forward the reso- lution On the last day of the last session, knowing fully well that the In the preliminary stage, I raised resolution could not ,be discussed and certain points of order, and the Spea- passed in that sesion. Even though ker was good enough to advise me to it was repeatedly expressed on the mention them In the course of my ftoor of the House that the resolution speech. My point is, firstly, certain should be brought forward in an provisions of the Rules of Procedure 179 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on 180 Public Undertakings [Shri A. C. Guha] and Conduct of Business, particularly an indirect approach of curbing the rules 308 and 310 go counter to some rights already enjoyed by these two of the provisions of this motion. It Comntittees. would have been more decent for the Government first to have approached As I have mentioned in the course the Speaker to mOdify the rules and of my point of order, when in 1953 the then to have brought forward the re- Prime Minister moved the motion for solution in this form instead of adopt- associating seven members of the ing the indirect approach of taking Rajya Sabha with the Public Accounts away some of the powers of the Committee, he made a clear distinction Public Accounts Committee and the between the Estimates Committee and Estimates Committee, which they the Public Acounts Committee. He have been enj oying all these years. conceded that since the Lok Sabha If We look at rule 308, We will find enjoys the exclusive privilege of that sub-rule 308(3), clauses (a), (b) financial control over the expenditure and (c) refer to the functions of the of the Government of India, it is the Public Accounts Committee which Estimates Committee which alone clearly this motiOn is going to take will be entitled to look into the away from the purview of the Public estimates of the Government. The Accounts Committee. estimates will include also estimates of expenditure, investment and loans to Similarly, the Estimates Committee be given to the public undertakings. has been examining the estimates of Already near about Rs. 2,000 crores the public sector undertakings all these have ~ invested in the public un- years. Perhaps, Members of the House dertakings, about Rs. 1,200 crores in may not be fully aware of the fact that equity capital and about Rs. 800 erores there is a Sub-Comntittee of the Esti- as loans. The target of the Third Plan mates Committee, consisting of fifteen is to invest Rs. 1,200 crores, which in members to l'>Ok after the working of the Fourth Plan will increase by about the public sedor undertak:ngs. Of 100 per cent. So every year nearly ~o , the tentati\'c report of the about Rs. 400 crores to 500 crores of Sub-Committee has to be placed be- the money of the Government of India fore the full Commiaee and aproved will be invested in public undertakings by it before it is presented to the and if we are to have, if this House is Lok Sabha. This Sub-Committee 01 to have, only an indirect share in the fifteen members is specially charged control of the expenditure of the Gov- with the duty of looking after the ernment or in the estimates of the affairs of the public undertakings, and Government, I think it will not be fair every year four Or five public under- for us to agree to the curtailment of tak;ngs are examined and reports the rights and privileges of this House. submitted to this House. Much has been said about the auto- Dr M. S. Aney: This Committee will supersede the old arrangement of the nomous character of the public under- Sub-Comntittee. takings. They are very sensitive if a question is asked in the House regard- Shrl A C. Goba: This motion would ing the working of the public under- imply or meaD taking away the rights takings. We fully share the idea that and privilegel!\ enjoyed by the Public public undertakings should be autono- Acounts Committee and the Estmates mous bodies, that is, autonomous Committee. My submision is that they within certain limitations to be decided mould have first moved a motion to by the Parliament. But our experi- modify the rules and then by a stan- ence is that the autonomy of these ding order they should have set up a bodies is more a fiction than a reality. coJTUt)ittee of this nature, instead of For many small administrative matters' adopting this cumlbersome process of of somewhat routine nature they have 181 Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Cmnmittee Olt 182 Public UnderWkiltge to wait upon the officers here to get But I am lorry to laY that this Gov- the final approval. For many things ernment is not willing to learn by ex- they have to keep a liaison office in perience, at least by the experience Delhi to chase their files and to pursue of the UK Gerience,-but simply to trust which to this new Committee the Gov- t.o the good sense, and good will of ernment or the public undertakings the Committee itself." can nOW surely take this plea if Motions re; NOVEMBER 16, 1963 Committee on Public Undertakings [Shri A. C. Gulla] matters of day-to-day administration Public Acounls Committee and of t'll' are excluded. It is a question of Estimates Committee of certain rights. trusting the Parliament and a parlia- I do not know how far this House can mentary committee. If they want the agree to this indirect way of curtailing Parliament to function, they must have the rights of the two committees full confidence in Parliament. If they created by this House. The two com- want a parliamentary committee to mittees are the creature of this House. function efficiently, they must trust The two committee are the mouth- that parliamentary committee and must piece and representatives of !'his not shackle its powers with certain House and it will not be proper for limita tions. hon. Members of this House '0 treat these two committees with this scant Regarding the five-year tenure, 1 courtesy and to curtail their rights in think, the hon. speaker mentioned that an indirect manner. the Government must have corurulte flths of the members after two years put all those limitations and that is will put them into serious le&:al diffi- Why they have been insisting on a culties. Apart from the position of permanent body whicn may be set up the smaller parties which Shri Daji onCe in the life-time of Parliament has mentioned-I think. they will and may not be repeated every year. safeguard that-there will be a sort of This may lead to a vcry convenient a vacuum after t.he dissolution of the body being set up 'Jy th" Guvprnment. House at the end of the General Elec- I be long te the party of the Govern- tions. Then only the Members of the ment. I know what obligations the Lok Sabha will cease to be members ruling party owes to this House and of the Committee; the Rajya Sabha to the country. From lhat pain: of Members will continue to be members view. I would submit that it may not of the Committee and will have full be proper for the Governmt:nt to quorum to do anything they like. Of insist on the five-year tenure and the course, I have full faith in the good rotation of 1/5th of the members re- sense of the Members of the Rajya tiring every two years. Thpse t!1ree Sabha; I know, they will not do it. Committees should enjo; the same but still there is the possibility. There right. the same g~ and the same is the legal flaw in that there would tenure. There should n')t ~ any dis- not be any Member of the Lok Sabha tinction. Nothing sho'lld 02 nt"'lltion- on that committee but the committee cd in the resolution about the rights will hang on in vacuum with only and privileges whic!1 should be regula- five MembeT'S of the Rajya Sabha. I ted by the rules of procedure abo:Jt am surprised that neither the Law the rights and privileges of the E..sti- Ministry nor the Industries Ministry mates Committee. Tha: has to be have considered this aspect of the decided by the Speaker and the go<,d question while for thesQ two or three sense of the Committee. years they have been discussing this matter and have been repeatedly Then, about, the policy matter. in coming before this House with the the main body of rule .'310, it has been motion in the same form. stated ; "within the policy decided". But the term 'policy' referred to rule I have mentioned also that this 310 (a) relates only to "policies laid motion will mean the divesting of the down by Parliament, either by means M otio1ls re; KAR'fIKA 27, IB85 (SAKA) Ccnnmittee on x86 Pubtic Undertakings of statute or by ~ resolution Shri A. C. Guha: That was in the passed by it from time to time. It shall 1962 resolution. That has been changed be open to the o ~ to examine naw. Anyhow, it is further amended. any matter which may have been Before concluding, I would like to settled as a matter of pol'cy by the read out what the Han. Speaker Mr. Government in the discharge of Mavalankar mentioned in this House executive functions." in 1950 before the Estimates Com- I may place this note· before the mittee was set up. House--it will be too lengthy for me "Consequent upon the provisions to read out-which will indicate as to of Article l16, as also independent- on how many occasions the 5 ~ ly thereof, it was felt necessary Committee made ~o ~. o on to constitute a Committee on Esti- policy matters even on matters mates for better financial control affecting certain laws passt-d by 'this of the House over expenditure by Howe. In such cases when the re- the ~ . Provision has, commendations of the Estimates Com- therefore, beeen made for a sepa- mittee concern certain provisions of rate Committee on the lines of a the Act passed by this House, the similar Committee in the House Estimates Committee is conscious of Commons called the 'Committee enough to couch its language in pro- on Esimates'. The chief func- per form and with proper accent. So, tions of this CommittE!£, will be I may place this note before the House to examine such of the estimates whieh will indicate on how many as may seem fit to it and to occas:ons the Estimates Committee has suggest economies consistent with made recommendations even for the the policy underlying the chan,ge of certain Acts passed by thie estimates. There will be in ad- House, not to speak of any policy dition, the usual Committee on matter decided by the executive Public Accounts. The fuctions authority and the Government. 01 these CommLttees will be mutually complementary and it Then, in Part III, the hon. Member is expected, will not only ,give a wanted to exclude these four public pieture of the entire financial undertakings from the purview of this p05ition but the committees will Committee. I think, he knows that be mutually helpful in examining even now these are being examined by the finances for the future in the the Estimates Committee. The Esti- light of the expenditure in the mates Committe has already submitted past". its report on the Hindustan Aircraft I hope there shall not be any deviation Ltd. and also on the Bharat Electronics on the part of the Government and this Ltd. The Estimates Committee can House to curtail the rights of the surely take up the examination of the Committees of this House in financial Mazagon Docks Ltd., and the Garden matters whether it is in the public Reach Workshop lAd. Anything ex- undertakings or in the administrative cluded from the purview of this Com- departments of the Government. mittee will not be excluded from the purview of the Estimates Committee. With these words, I conclude. Shri Kanungo: In the present draft, Ill1 ~ : ~ ~, 'iRfu" it is not excluded. mfT >;fr i't >;fr 'i'ffi;{ ~ ~ mlf.t ~ Shri A. C. Guha: This Part ITI is ~,~ 1{' ~ ~ ~~ I excluded. ~ 'i'ffi;{ ~ ~ 'foT t I ~ Shrl Kanungo: No. ~~ ~ ~ I ~ o;fRift ·The Speaker not having subsequ ently accorded the necessary permis- sion, the document was not treated as laid on the Table. Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on 188 Public Undertaking, [..n ~ concerns run by the State Govern- it 'IllRTo'f it mr ~ ~ 1ft1rT , ~ ment were working 'unsatisfac- ~~ ~ ~ ~ f1:A11T ~ 'fiTifT, torily".

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~ ~ g-m q-r f'F ;;;i[' ~ arm ~ 'I>'T ~ 'fliT ~, lffl' ~ ~ ~~ ~~ 'T ~ ~1 ~ Q:lm <"l'f ~ ~~ - ~ ~ 00, srrrrr ~ m, ~ ~ 1383 (Ai) LSD-8. 191 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on 192 PubLic Unde:iaking6 [>ofr ,,~ I1lTT ~ it ~ m mu 5R W if; ifi1 X 0 '1"0 ~ lf ffi ;;mft ~. I O~ q"{ ~ I 00 ~ ~ mr'1" ;;rr;:r R I1lTT ~ m, tion at all, with the result that the fi11n..T m, ~ ~ m, ~ consumer angle has been comple- ~ I ~ ~~ ~ tely forgotten. I would like to develop ,this p")int, but I have no ~~~~ ~ .~ ~ time. But the House will bear ~ "fr@T ~, ~ ~ ~ j~ with me if I say that eaclh one has become an imperium in imperio- ~ ~ I ~ 'if17 'if17 ~, ~ ~ small kingdoms, completely assign- ~, ~ ~ T Chairman". fulic if;t; '1'.1 ~ I fulic ~ ~~~ I ~~ if;t; '1"@ ~ f'f,';o;:r q< q I f"l41 ii z €I ~ <:ro ~ ;;mIT ~ I ~ ~ m witt '1'i!1 ~ I M ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I ~ ~ it mq ~ fiI; ~ ~ I ~ ~ ~ <:ro I ~ ~ if ~~

~ ~ ~ 9t'G'G crT ~ 'f"{ ~~ .~~ qlf.,414z€l ~ ~, ~ ~ I ~ iia- ~ ~ ~ f;;r« w-rr i\if q'nfT ~ imf it ~ ~~ ~ I "fl ~ wcrn'c ~ I ;f;fijili!' ~ t!!f> 'icom G ~ 1 ~ ~ ~ fiI; ~ 'fiT fulic If.im ~I ~, ~ ~ ~ ~ m;- if;t; '1"@ ;r.:r W ~ I ~ ifi1 Cffl 'tmf ~ ~ ~ cft'1' cft'1', 'iff"{ 'qR ~ ~ ~ ~ $ ~ ~ fiI; ~ ~ 'f"{, ~ o 'f"{ ~ 00 ~ '1) ~ ",r.. qa'lql'1 I ~ $ '1' ~ ~ ~ 1 1~. ~ ~ ~ , ~ ;;rr ~ ~ I ;;r) ~ ~ - ~ - f 193 Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKAl Committee on 194 Public Undertakings ~ ~ Wr ;;rr ~ ~ 1 u: ~ ~ 1I1T, ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ m+f.t ~ I ~ ~ ~ ifiitiT w

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~~ ::;fi ~ ~ ~ ::;fr 'f.6T Cfit 1J.~ ~ ~ 'f)f 'qf'1 ~ ~ '1Tf<'l'ffi Tln]'Of Si'f)T\: 'fiT -:an\: ~ R ~ ~

::;fr ~ ~ ~ ~ I~ ~ 'f)fl{ ~ ri, ~ , Cfl'mi1' \ft ~ ~, ~ IRf ~ 'OfT f'f) m &;'1<: ~ ~ ii!r :;n;r ~ ~ ii!r ~ ii[;;rWr ~ w ~I ~ mfe- 1 195 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on , Public Undl!"'takinl1s [o..fr 1 ~ if.t 'illtmr if ~ R; ~ mfT mittee. The work of Parliament is in_ creasing day by day. With the imple- ~ ~ ~ liT ;;r;ror ~ mentation of the iaeology of socialism, ;:m:nr ~ ~ eft 2~ ~ l" 'fT'l- work, increase. ~ ~ ~ "30fitiT ~ fl1.rnT ~ I ~

ft:rii ~ l" ~ lic Accounts Committee were able to 'fi(fT ?;IT I ~ ft:rii ~ l'f.'! 9 t '( 0 if ~ look after the work of Parliament in their respectiVe jurisdictions. But the ~~1 work has now so increased that it has become almost impossible for these ~ O~~ ~ ~ two committees to manage all these governmental activities effectively ~ ~ I if.t ~ ~ if 'J:m 11) e. by every party, ~ 'tiT ~ 1Pn ~ fifO ~ 'R ~ :hat there is t"" . ~ for the establish- ~ 'tiT .~ 1 ~ I ~ ~ It'B Wi:lT- m'.nt 0' such a ~ . My hon. ~~ ~ I ~~ ~ the ~ raid in his speerh thot th('re was a c(>mmittee for this it <:mr ~ ~ ~ ~ Committee. He said was ditIerent. It was to tak" up the that while much is talked about tak- work of the Estimates Committee and ing away the autonomy of all . he pub- the Public Accounts Committee and lic undertakings, if there is too r.1Ucil not restrict the functions of any of accountability to Parliament, very these Committees, but if the GD'lern- little notice is taken or the fact tltat ment does feci that it has ~o reS- as things are at present.. ill the ea"e trict the Estimates o . ~ of the m3.jority of such undertakings, present powers so far as the there is interference trom the G::p,;- Committpe on Public Undertakings ernment departments. whIch in ;;n b concerned, merely becaus\· it inconceivable manner, is still going the Committee un PublIC Undertak- on. The public ,ector, I wOLlld main- ing:; is concf'rned, rnercly because jt tain, has not had a chance yet to provre hangs together with the Public Ac- whether it is good or bad {)r is likely counts Committee, I sUl:'I.::p.st that it to be something ~~ ~ reany should be separated. In any case I deliver the goods in this country. It would particularly like to draw atten- is true that in the Min'stry of Heavy tion again to what Shri Guha has Industry. some chance" Itave teen already pointed out, and which is taking place today, but even .vith absolutely true. That is, on many an these. the g~ are nOt of such a occasion, the Estim:ltes Committee in nature that we can say that dutclllorny pa:;t years-I was a,.tat much 0'1 is not merely the question Of the good the doubts that ariSe today WOUld be sense of the Committee but the good overcome; that much Of the exaggera- sense of the Speaker is also involved. tions about public sector undertakings If the Speaker's direction is not good that are now existent in the country enough, I would like to ask the Gov- 211 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on 212 Public Undertaking. [Shrimati Renuka Ray] ernment, whose direction is good before We have another resolution, enough to 'Suggest the way a parlia- whether more confusini Or o . ~, mentary conunittee shoUld act? Sure- before this Hou·se. I plead with the ly, it is not for the Government to Gc"ernment On this matter. As the interfere and place restrictions on the public sector is growing and as tl;" purpose of a committee :>f Parliament criticism on the public iector is also which is to work under the direction there, it is very necessary that with· of the Speaker, Moreover, this Com- out any delay this Committee be set mitte" is entitled to get the same up, Therefore, if there is any hesita- courtesy as is shown to the present tion on the part of the Government. Estimates Committee of Parliament. if again the Law Minister tells the That is why, again and again, 1 Government that in view of what ~ reiterate this point because this is the Hous" has eXpressed we will think most important point in the whole Ovpr th" matter again and bring a resolution as it stands before Us today. fresh resolution, I hope the Govern- nll'll[ will not succumb \0 it excePt if The second point is whether the it is for a day, If by tomorrow they other House should be ,1ssopiated with will let us know in 3n un confused it. So far as the 'functions of the Pub- way that the' functions cf the Esti- lic Accounts o ~ are concerned mates Committee are actually being certainly they are o ~ with vested in the Committee on Public them and- they should remain so. So Undertakings we would be satisfied. far as the Estimates Committee is concerned, I hope this Committee of Certain technical points have beell this HOUse will have full powers as raised by Shri Guha and others. 1 the Estimates Committee as it func- do not v<'ry much mind :hem. Whe- tions in this country today. ther the resolution comes first or the orders come first, it dOCS not matter. In the Public Sector loans have been If the resolution is pasoed, orders can advanced to a very large extent-I follow. thoui!h it would have been think it is about Rs. 2,000 crores. In bdter if the orders were passed first. the next five years and in the Fourth Plan much more money is going to be Sir, I only want to conclude with advanced by this Parliament to the these words. that let not the resolution public sector. Therefore, the Parlia- be postponed again because of the ment's control on the public sector is fact that we as Members d this o ~ one thing that has to be exercised. from all '"ides haVe ooined out cer- Accountability to Parliament has been tain lacunae in the re30lution, 1 envisaged and is perfectly understood, would alsO suggest to the Government by the ~ o of the Krishna Menon to think over the matter and bring Committee whiCh was the first report up by tomorrow certain changes I.n on this subiect and which drew atten- this resolution or else at least accept tion to the need of this Committee on the amepdment moved by Shri Guha public undertakings. Therefore, if by which this Committee will have We are to really serve the purpOSe in the power to discuss altern3te policies a proper manner, not only must be with a view to bringing about effi- functions be as they are of the Esti- ciency and economy. mates Committee but this Committee must also be given a chance to come Sir, I support the formation C1f the into existenCe soon. Committee on Public Undertakings with these changes. I hope as a result of this discussion the Government will not feel like Shri S1ll'elldraDath Dwivedy; Mr. withdrawing the resolution onCe more Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I welcome this as it did last year. In that case per- motion for the formatiOn ,)f the Public haPs another whole year will go by Undertakings Commftee. In fact, a 213 Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee on 214 Public Undertakings decision about thia Committee should mittee in the manner in which it has have been taken long long back. This been suggested in this resolution. It has been delayed not on account of they do not airee anj if they disso- the un,willingness of the Parliament to CIate from this would Government give its support to such a measure, again w1thdraw' this motion? We but because of inter-party differences. would not like such a situation to Haw inter-party differences delay arise. We would like this motion to matters of such public importance j,s be passed in this session itself so that clear here, ,If an example is needed, the Committee could come into being this is one, as soon as possible.

Even today, from the motion that is Since we are committed to a socia- before us for discussion, I am not sure list society, public undertakings or en- whether after this long deliberation terprises have to playa dominant role the Government has been able or the in the economic development of this Congress Party leaders have been able country, That is a settled fact for to resolve the di.erences inside their which Parliament has committed it- own party in regard to the association self, So. public sector undertakings of all members of the Parliament in are bound to grow more and more. this Committee. Views have been ex- That is the reason why it becomes still pressed here regarding the rights and more necessary for the Government, privileges of the Lok Sabha and RajY'3 when they constitute a Committee to Salbha, and also whe:her they will be scrutinise the working of public en- associate members or full members. terprises, to give more serious thought Even this resol ution says that they to the powers and functions of that will assodatc themselves with this Committee. The further progress of public undertakings in this country o ~ , I for one do not under- de!)ends very much upon the effici- ~ these technical objections to matter, of such great importance, ency and efficacy of such enterprises. After all. thp Parliament as a whole So, we have to consider how efficient- ly they run, how economically they is responsible to the people, be it function and what is ~ ,let effect RajYR Sabha or Lok Sabha. and the on the general economy as a whole taxpayer', money invested in these IS by the expansion in public enterprises, public under:akings and Parliament as a body has the right to go into these questions and place before the Some voices have 'been raised here public what they think about the in the course of the discussion as if it working of there organisations. is a competition between public enter- prise and private enterprise. Some We are giving this Committee the people argue that because the Dublic functions of both the Estimates Com- sector has faile!'! in some fields, there- mittee and the Public Accounts Com· fore, we should never go in for the mitt{'C. There should be, theref()!'e, expansion of the public sector. When no restrictions whatsoever and equal that is the position, it becomes all the rights should be given to all members more 'mper3tive for Parliament which so far as the rights of this Committee has taken u!' this res!,onsi'bility of are concerned. supporting such expansion, to go be- fore the people and explain that real want a categorical assurance on economic progress on the basis of this point. This has been stressed by socialist objectiVe can ,be furthered by the previous speaker also. The Min- having more and more of public ister ~ not clarified this matter. 1 undertakings. For that, a close scru- do not know whether the members of tinv of the working of public under- the Rajya Babba have agrEed to nomi. takings is necessary. which can be nate their representatives to this Com- done only by ParliBment. 215 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on Public Undcrtakings [Shri Surendranath Dwivedy] All these years Goverrunent have two minds even n<1W. Probably they adopted a stepmotherly attitude to- do not want to meet the criticism of wards Parliament and it has been kept the private sector o ~ the Parlia- in the dark ~ o the working of ment, by sayin.g that there are public public undertakings. No real infor- enterprises whose working has been mation a'bout their working is given very minutely scrutinised by Parlia.. to Parliament. We cannot put any men! and its committee. The whole qucstions about the administrative country will then be in a position to failures or the inefficiency of the pub· judge whether such enterprises are lie undertakings. We do not know necessary. what is happening in the public un- dertakings. Always infonnation is They are saying that provisos are withheld from Parliament on the plea there about which references have of autonomy of the undertaking. Real- been made. But I cannot for a ly speaking, there is no autonomy for moment understand what these pro- these undertakings. :rt is the bureau- visos are. They specially say that crats at the Secretariat and Ministe· matters of day.to-day administration rial level that rea,lly guide the func- will not be taken into consideration. tit'ming of the undertakings, sometimes Nobody wants to dabble into appoint· even to the detriment of their better ments here and there. But is it the functioning. Since bureaeracy func- contention of Government that, when tions in this manner, it is but right this committee is set up, it will have and proper that Parliament should no authority or no power to go intI> have the right to criticise the bureau- a].] these matters which are necessary, cracy and curb the rights of bureaUl· such ~ would suggest-unit cost of cracy so that the 'Public undertakings production, rate of output per man or may function efficiently. per unlit of capital €!lIlployed, physical and financial programmes, achie'Ve- Now, Parliament is not provided ment relation to programme, produc- with the 'budgets of these undertak- tivity, cost of production, price struc- ings. Though statutorily reports of ture, employment trends, la1bom- rela.. these undertakings are to be laid on tions. organisational changes? AI! the Table of the House, often it is these are necessary. done only after many many years. So, generally we cannot get any idea of Shri Tyagi: They are all included. what is happening in these undertak- ings. As Parliament is such a big Shri Surendranath Dwivedy: They organisation which cannot go into all are not included, as my hon. friend the details, it is but right and proper says, because the provisos would not that a Cmnmittee of Parliament is set permit this committee to go into all up, which would have sufficient time these things. Take, for example, to go into the details c:A. the working laJbour relations. It is a vital matter of these organisations. But why should so far as the functioning of the public the powers of this committee be re!- undertakings are concerned. DQ the tricted and curbed? I do not under· Estimates Committee or the Public stand that. If the Government is real_ Accounts Committee have any power lyanxious that Partiament should be today to go into the labour relations helpful in furthering the aims that we of the public undertakings or of any have in view then Parliament must other underta-iSUrances and in this ~o g ~ an 'amendment of like manner of proceeding in this matter. nature--t'hen this work would be Therefore, I suggest the Government really worth having. should accept that it should be three years so f·ar as ·this Committee is con- I have then to press for increasing cerned and this proviso should be rc- the membershlp of this committee. A moved: 1 have already stated about single transfer9Jble vote is there. For the association of Rajya Sabha with election of members to the Estimates this Committee. I feel that the Rajya Committee and the Public AccolUlts Sabha should 9Jlso have the power to Commiilrtee also 'We have the same nominate not only flve but ten mem- proc.-ed UTe. bers for this Committee. Now, here is a Committee, as I have already stated, which is going to per- Lastly, I will again point out that fomt an ;mportant ftmction of Parlla- the Pu'blic Accounts Committee or 219 Motions re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee <>n 220 Public Undertaking3 [Shri Surendranath Dwivedy] tape, bureaucIlacy, interference and the committees like that almost play a like. The management has been top- negative role. My hon. friend Mr. heavy. There has been interference Tyagi will excuse me for that. at all levels which has not been con- ducive to efficient management. Shri Tyagi; I am negative

Shri Surendranath Dwivcdy: They The Estimates Comrn,ittee and the havp to scrutinise the amounts which Public Accounts Committee, of which have already been spent. Now, this thIS committee is a counterpart so far Committee is quite different in the "s the public undemakings are con- sense that this Committee should have cerned, have proved their efficiency in the power of a guiding function which ~ administrative sphere. In a large would exercise the function.. of Parlia- number of cases, they have drawn at- ment. if necessary, to take initiative to tention to the fa'1lits and failings to suggest changes, alternatives and new which OUr administrartion has been methods for the running of public un- SuscE'ptible. And it is vel)' necessary dertakings. This is what is needed that the same scrutiny should be ap- most and I would 8Uggest that the Gov- plied 10 our public ventures, because ernment should also accept amend- they cannot be themselves the judge ments cA that nature that this Commit- of wh.at they do. tee should have the power to suggest measures for better and efficient func- As r('gards the faulls that have tioning of public undertakings. Oth",r- bern discovered, a number of bodies wise, I do not think, the appointment have' made their comments about it. of such a committee is going to benefit US in any way better than that we are The World Bank Mission which having, the Estimates Committee or ~ early in 1960 to study Indla's the PubHc Accounts Committee. developmental plans remarked as follows: Shri S. N. Chaturvedi: This long- awaited resolution regarding the com- "That present organisa'i')n of mittee on public undertakings is very the publicly owned steel industry welcome, although it is hedged round is felt to be unsatisfactory by with a number of limitations. many of those responsible for U-y- ing to make it work. ,1t certain- The public sector in this ~o hus ly satisfies few of the criteria that come to stay. It is growing and will h.ave been found elsewhere to be continue to grow, and there must be applicable to the efficient opera- soone body to which it should be ac- tion of public enterprises, and the countable. Parliament as a whole can- Mission believe that it ought nort exercise that close scrutiny which 'Promptly to be re-examined.". th('se public undertakings require. ~ on, it has remarked: Today, we hear different views about the comparative merits of the private "An inordinate amount of time sector and the public sector. Quite a and energy is spent by the man- number of things are said which have agement of enterprises--public as no substance. On the other hand, we well as private, sma.ll as well as are also hesitant to say that the public large-ln negortiating ·their way sector has made good. The contribu- through Government regulatiollll. tion which was ~ of it to the Many of the main controls, in- public exchequer during the Pl.ans has cluding those over investment anci not been forthcoming. There have been imports, unquestionably have to -other complaints of too much of red be continued iGr the time beine .2Z1 Motions re: KARTIKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee on 222 Public Undertaking. in view of the overall shortage of they judge everything by the criterion resources. On the other hand, the of profitability. Here the criterion Mission has the impression that should be service. But under the garb the multiplication of controls has of service, public undertakings ~ 'been carried in recent years to not fall a prey to inefficiency, waste, quite unnecessary leNgths 'md extravagance and the like to which that many of the exL,ting on- the other enterprises are so suscepti- troIs do not contribute mate- ble. As a matter of fact, with the rially ei ther to the better advantages that thesc public under- functioning of the economy or the V'dkings enjoy, in the matter of ample fulfilment of the Government's funds at their disposal and in some social objectives. The experience cases monopoly in production, they of other countries has shown the should serve as models to others in damage that can be done by ex- regard to prices, efficiency, the status cessive controls exercised by re- thcy give to their worker;, the atteR- mote Government officials over tion they pay to their wages and the operations of business enter- wcltare. prises, even though each regula- The constitution of the Committee tion, taken by itself, can be jWIU- is welcome and I hope, as others have fled in terms of public policy.". done, ihe motion will be passed and Similarly, there has been comment implemented. I have submitted a few about the appointment of administra- amendments. The feeling has been tive officers, who have no experience voiced in this House that the number of managing any business concerns, of 10 froon this HOWIe will not be ade- as managing directors or chairmen of quate. It will not give representation the boards of these managements. to all sections. Therefore. I have rais- Managerial capacity in this country III ed it by an amendment to 15. At the Very scarr ~ the most scarce same time, I have suggested raising commodity, even more so than foreign the number of members of the Rajya exchange. Even so, the appointments Sabha to SlX. I think that rotation which are made to these undertakings will not be harmful. The Opposition must be of persons who had some parties havE' some apprehensions, but background of business management. it, as pointed out by the Minister, a 111 hr.I. convention is adopted that future vacancies will be filled from the same Secondly, the appointment of ot!!- group to which the ~ mC! cials, service-men, on the boards of belonged, should ["Cas.!ure them. management make them almost a part I want that a larger number at of the ruling hierarchy. Prof. Gal- Mem·bers from our House should have braith has remarked: the eX" rience of the working of this "The presence of officials on the Comm ,e. They should be able to boards ot public en1erprises vir- look more closely into the working of tually destroys the autonomy of those undertakings, so that the Hou.re the enterprise and the board be- is beneflte-d and is enabled to exercise comes a link in the civil service better vigilance on the working of hierarchy". these undertakings. J am glad my view to increase the number of mem- These defects have been pointed out 'bers on this comm.lttee has been shar- and we should try to ~ them right ed by others. because if these undertakings do not ,r haVe also suggested an amendment make good progress, nationalisation to paragraph (2) to Include the of certain strategic industries in this words: counbry will receive a set-back. Pri- vate ~ has its own shortcom- "to examine whether the orga- ing. and deftciencie.l. We know that nisational structure and proce- 1383 (Ai) LSD-9. 223 Motiom re: NOVEMBER 18, 1963 Committee on 224 Public Undertaking. [Shri S. N. Chaturvedi] dures are conducive to maximum this House would help in improving the efficiency and economy and make efficiency and in better control of the recommendations for their im- public sector by this august House. provement;" The public sector has expanded What I have said before goes to show much. In 1959 the investment was that a number of organisational de- Rs. 29 crores in public s-ector; it rose fects persist, because of which these to Rs. 81 crores in 1955 and to Rs. 956 undertakings are not working as effi- crores in 1960-61, almost the end of ciently as they should. There are the ~o Plan. At the end of 1961- other matters also which probably 62, it stood at Rs. 1133 crores, and will be remedied if this organisational with the estimated investment of aspect is taken into account. I think Rs. 1520 crores during the Third Plan the addition that .I have made is not period, the total investment will stand covered by the terms of reference at about 2500 crores at the end of the given in the body of the motion, and Third Plan period. Similarly, the therefore I hope it will be accepted. number of public sector industries Shri A. N. Vidyalankar: In spite of stood at 6 in 1947; it rose to 14 in 1951, what Shri Ranga says, the public and to 31 in 1955 and at present there lector in India is bound to expand. are about 65, including companies The drawbacks he has pointed out in where Government has majority the public sector are not inherent in shares. There are besides companies the system, but are due to the un- in which Government holds minority healthy influence of the private sector. shares. Certain traditions have developed in The public sector is bound to expand the private ""c1or all over the world, and so it is essential that this House which are imitated by the public sector should have proper control. I do not in some places. But generally our think that this Bill casts any reflection experience shows that the public sector 01' t:1e work ()f the Public Accounts is coming into its own, giving a good Committee or Estimates Committee account of itself, and slowly and gra- wl,' ~~ have been cX3.mining their dually improving. reports and accounts and other things. In the last session, the Minister of Since the public sector i.i expn:1lT, ~ fifO it WT ~ fifO 1Iil' W-T oR .ft ~ ~ ~, ~ ~ I ~ ~ fir. qf;;;rr. ~~ I ~ if; 'Ilm 'f'T ~ - ~, Wliic:T * ~ ~ if; 'fll'I" ~ if.l ~ 1 4Q I~ j1 ilii iff I ~ ~ 73th ~ ~ ~ "!"Il'f gm ~ I ~ ~~ it om: om: ~ ~ fit; ~ ~ ~ 'f'l':!ffi1,'f'T 'f>Tll' ~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ 'W f ~ ~~ ~1 4Q I ormr T1l it mflld 1f1l i't ~ ~ aT ~ ~ lTif'f 'f>lfit ifOT f<:'lTt a1 ~ ~ 'f'T lnif ~ tfG]" ~ ~ I ~ ~ <€t ~, ~ ~ ~ ~ m 'liT ~ ~ 'fi'itit 'f'T ~ ~ <4"f om 'fil<:1Jf 'IT I @:: ~ ~ ~ 'f>VlT if; ~ ~ ;;rr ~ ~ lifu" qf;;;rr. 'IT f.ti ~ 1fi1¥-t ifOt ~~ if>lffi' ~~ I ~~ ~ em: ~ 1J ~~ ~ 'f>T 'f>Tll' ~~~~ ~ ~ . I 1~ 1~~~~~ 'flit if@ ~ ;;rr ~ ~ amr ~ if " ~ 'IT f.ti -W 'f>Tll' if; ft;rir ~ ~ ~ I « ~ ~ 1fi1¥-t ~~ ~ ~ 1fi1¥-t !lf :;ffl", fit; -~ "11 'fi"'q <4"f if.l 'Wffu 00 ~ ~~ ~,~ ~, ~ a't f ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ WifT f

~ ~ ~ 'f@ iffiOfTllT l'f1IT -~ I ~ ~ 'fiT ~ ~ 1 I 9;TiI If..<'rl!(f ~~ ~ f.fi;;rif iI\'Tlf ~ m ~ if; ~.. ~ ~ ~ eft ~ ~ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~ .. ~ ~ Ilim fif. ~ sror;u ~ '1iTli ~ ~ ~ ~ I ~ ~ if; 3:'n: ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ;TI'ifCf ~ A ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ { I « m91f> if ~ I ~ ~ ~ oR q ~ itm <'flffiT ~ f.fi ~ if;T ~ ifgl1l rn ~ ffif ..~ ~ ~ f.fi ~ if;T ~ ~~ ~~ ~ I ~ J sr<: m 1RT ~ ~ m ~ 1 ~ ~ ~ if; ~ f;;rrirm: IIl!"!f ~ ~ iR; ~ I ~ it m ~~ ~ eft 'l'roI 'I>'T amr if ~ I ~ ~ ~ ~ g ~ 'qW ~ ll1l m ~ ;;fTrr

~ .. 'T t;T't<: « ~ ~ I 'WI"<:: n: iffiI ~ 'Til ~. eft ~ ~ q ~ ~ ~ ~ if; IDtI ~ 'IT ~ itm 9;TRql ~~ ~ ~ ~ W if>l1l <: ~ if ~ ~ ~ eft ~ * iRRfIJ! ~ or;:r ;;no{ « ~ lr;,n: ~ t, 233 Motions re: KARTlKA 27, 1885 (SAKA) Committee Oft 234 Pvblic Undertaking, ~~~~~~~~~ qi'ifr ~ mm: 'R ~ \i15 (af""1 ~ ~ ~~ tPrtt ~ f<'l1:t ~ 'fi't 'friT ;;rl?r ;;rr ~ ~ -&, I ~ ~ . 'f.T f ~ ~ qf 'f'fT gm ~ 'l;fR ;;ft lim matters for the considera- • (iii) ~, ..'!" ~ mun: 'R ~ ;f5 ~ ~ "" tion of which maehinery is esta- blished by any special statute ~ of'!" ij- ~ ~ ~ I "m"lt!" m1 ~ ~ , ~ oN m ~ . ~ If'i" ~ m m mf <:T Iff i! I ~, ~ If.I ~ If'f ~ 'l;fn: ~ o 'f.T ~ ~ ;;rT ~ ~ '1ft QToT'R." 6T

'U'ilf ~ ~ ;;it 'Ii"'f ~ m1iT ~ ~ ~ ~ tT4T ~ fif; iICf\iTl:n qR ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ , tT4T ,,~ ~,~ 'if<'!' ~ ~ I 'H ~ QT 'ler :rR m\i ~ '1'1'<: ~ 'f+rT ilT m<:T ~ , crR ~ ~ I !fTi i!I'i'f if ~

'lIT ffift ~ ;;rffi ~

~ ~~ ;;rT W <;f[r ~ ~ I 'JTmT ~ ;;iT

it; cm:T ~ 'f.Vj,fr if';) ~~ ~ ;jml' 9TTfl:R" wq it ~ ,~ 1lf ~ if; ron ~ ~ 9;lR ~ ~~ [MR, SPEAKER in the Chair,] m<: j ;:r@ ~ 1 lP= {('fi ~1 ~ ~ i f.r. ~ lI"i{ ~ ~ ;;rrll-'1T fF ~ ~ ~ I ~ If>1lf ~ lfiT ~ ;ffl ~ ;r ~ ~ 3 ~ ~ ~ ~ 1 . I ~~ ~ I ~ ~ ~~~ I ~ 'fiT ~ \rI'f tie:r ~ ~ 'if<'IT.f 'fit ~ 't CfR Prtr W "'I"T "lI"ro lifif7'fT'f> ~j1 it ~ ~ ~ it'll. lfI1'1iT >fro ~ itIfT iIf

!q"if ~ ~ iR" ~ ~ I on;r ~ ;;mrr ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I ~ 0fiTt t1;ifi fit; ~

"{ it, ~ ~ i:;. 'if) ~~ ~~~ ~~ "') ~o 'fro ~ : ~11 1 ~~~, ~ iRr ~ f'fl'fluT '!iT ~ 'fimT ~ I mq '1>1" lW- ~ fir. 'rfI" w:T f.nrtuT i5"t I ~. it ~ f"f'f till what time will this debate con- lfR'lTl1" ~ if ~ ~~ ;r 'l1TlT fWfr tinue? ~, ~~ it ~ lf ~ '!iT ~ @ mtJ:, what time is to be allotted to this m ~ ~ tn, ~ it ~~ ill lI1! debate. ~~ 'fimT ~ fifO ~, ~ ~ ;r Shri P. K. Deo (Kalahandi): There ~, o ~~~~ ~~ are so many Members who are likely 'liT ~ ~ ~ ~, "ri\fi!; ~ to take part in the debate. ~ m1l1 if; ~ ~ ~ 1 'fir ~~ ~ AD BOD. Member: Four hours more. ~ ~ ~ if>r ~ ~ tft;ft

@ ~ I '<:, ~ ~ ~ flj; ~ Mr. Speaker: Don't the hon. Mem- ~ 'liT ~~ f1:r<;ft ~ WT ~, f.;r;r ;r bers feel that the same points are being made again and again? m q;;j; ;r tn, cnfil; ~ ;IT ~ fiI; ~~ ~ ~~~ Shri P. K. Deo: Every Party has ns own angle of approach. ~ ;fo m I fq;<: m, mrr I ~ llTof- 'tTl!" ~ it ~ ~, ~ ~ If"{ ~~ Hr. Speaker: Of course, that angle f<'!'ifR fir.lfT ~ I I will certainly allow to be brought before the House. Then, tomorrow we ~ ~~~ if,

[''IT ~ 0 lt1 0 ~o lff ~ ~ ~, ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~.mit ifo/I'T ~ ~ q'tt ~ I ~ t ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ;it Ci<:'li fili 'l'iIfOfi!i ~ ;it ~ it -nQ-, a1 3 ~ !fiT fq.fi'ffi ~ ~ ~~~ 3 ~ ~ ~ ~ I m "' ~ , a1 f'fi<: lfil ~ ~ fili ~~ ~ ~ ~~ 1 ~J1 ~~ if rn ~ I ~ ~, ~ ''' WOfi!i ~

tiT ~4 r,,<: 'f>", "I if>T ~ iAT, ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ srmc: ~ ifi"'('?

~ ~ g if>'<: llil ~ ~ ~ f'f> '3'i'f ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ f'1> ~ ~ CI'1> lfil ;rN ~ ilimt if; ~ ~ WI" ~ ~ , ~ m ~ 1 ~ if; qri 9 if ~ ~O if>lW- ~ ~ ~IOj if;cr.r.tlt ~, ~ f'I;;rnf .... 1 ~ , ~ ~ 'fT'( if ~ q;'"lfu1 ~ ~ ~ J 'f>1 ~QIOj, l1;lf< 11 1~, -~~ if; ~ it ~ ~ ~ O , ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ;it ~ ..". ~ lfiT(q"fuR, ij-¥ ~ I 3 ~11 ~ f'1> '3'i'f ..". ~ if>T 'flIT ~ 1 ~ m ~I ~o ~. ~ ~ ~~ ~ Oj~IOj 1I I fif.1IT ~, , ~ m ~ ~ ~ , ~ ~ fuflP"i' ~ if ~ ~ rn tl I ~ Ifi1{ ;m:r ;r{Y Ifil WI" ~ ~ I lfil ~ ~ ;it iITIf ~ ~ ~ ~, ilf.f;;r ~ <1't1Jl it 'E'i ~ fit; ~ ~ l' '1"\' ~ : ~ ~ ~ ~ 1 ~ ~ ijlIl fit; ~ ~ ~ m ~ Shrl Morarka (Jhunjhunu): It 11 ~ !fiT f;rIiJ; ~ ~ if m mlff m included. ~ ~ I Shrl Bade: But some are not ~ f<;riJ ~ lfil ~ ~ ~ f.. included. qfi<'!1fi ~ ~ ~ 'il<'I"f.t r¢'t Shri S. M. Banerjee: All are not ~ '3'i'f <1't1Jl r¢'t ~ ~ ~ included. ('j'l,,,,q,,,,) ~ q"( ~ rn ~. Shrl Morarka: All the limited lit ('j'l,,,,qlcfl aUif; ~ ~ ~ ~ qrq companies are included except those ~ "1m ~ ~ , ~ %i«(zf\;le which are named. if; iIf.t lfil ~ ~ ~I fit; ~ ~ IJ~ en ~o ,"0 .~ ifiliT ~ ~ ~1 O " fir.t, ~ ~ ~ ~ f'(Cl1l"( ~ ~ ~ ~ fit; 'flIT ~ ~ m it; ~ it, ~~ lIT ~ ~ , ~ ~ 'fiT ~ ~ I ~ ~~ ~ ffi' ~~ j ~ ~ ~ if'if"1T ~ ~, ~ ~ wn: ~ ~ t, ~ 'I;fl'R ~ me; ~ 'liT ;nl if ifTlrrft ~, ffi' lfil: ~~ iit ~ i I ~ ij' ~ I ~ 'liT ~, ffi' trrftn: 'flIT ~ ~ f'fi" ~ if SIlT1{4j'hl"1 'fiT m ~ ~- ~, it ~ ~ ~ ~ 1 4j ~I 'fiT +iT I l!11ft' 'fiT ~ ~ m.: ~ iro ~ ~ ~ ~ flti ~ ~ ifg

[P.ft 11 0 ~ 0 ~

iffif ;;r.r ~ ~ m ~ ~ OR: it ~ ~ ~ ~ it ~ "fl'f,dT ~ ~ ~ ~ I ;;r.r ~ ~ if; 'llTlf f'fol1 f'fi ~ ~ ifil'R) 'fiT 'fiP:

~ ~ I on<:: on<:: ifiQT "fT\iT ~ f'fi ;;rTf'S- ~ ~ I lR'T"( ~ ~ 'P1 ~ if@ 'Iilfcs ~ ~, :;it ~ ~ fifilfT ll1lT m ;ffit;ir ~ ;rf,T ~ f1"'!i7f f, f;;fif 'fit ~ ~ ll1lT ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I ~ ifi'IiiT ~~ f'fi '1ffi ~ 1 lIT ~ if; fom ~ <'!+ITIl ifil(q'r'hH ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 'f<'f ~, fififl" ~ ~ I W ~ if; :;it ifiTlf ~ ~, '3"fifiT ~ ~ ~ ~ 'f<'f W ~, fififl" it ~ ~ ffi 'f@ ~ ~ ~ ~ I ~

i I lR'T"( ~ o j ~ I1 ~ <'!"IT ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ )If iff\' ~~ ;r ~ ~ ~ m ~ ;;IT Q,GI'Ti ~ ~ 1 ~ ;;IT ~, ~ ~ I It lif : l1T'11l if@ 1~ ~ Wm: iF ;;IT cir.r ~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ f<>TlfT IT'tT ~ I ~ qq-;fr ~ ~ ~, To1 if ~ ~~ <'fTl! ~ ~ I W ~ 'liT ;;ft ~ ~, ~ ,~ ffi km ;or@ ;ft ~ I ~ TlfT IT'tT ~ I ~I .. ~5 iFt ,~ ~ ff,' i\' qm: ~ Mr. Speaker: Shri Jashvant Rai ~ f'li m

P..l) ~~ ~ Iii Iiii I'!. ): l;fD1'e1 ~, ~ ~ ~ f'f, ~ 5Rfrf 1:fl1t .,:r) ~ WT\ ~ ;;IT il'u ~ ~. mllT ~ m.:- ~ 3'.'R -rn:ih:m ~ ;:r;ri trf,' 1T<'m ~ m 1 ~ ~ m.ljffi ~ ~ 'qOf <:@ ~ I it

Sffi'ITt ~ it ~ mma- lIT ?reT Committee shall hold office for the ¢ma- qq;rr 'I;If'f'f>T\ ~ ~ ~ +TT duraL,)fi of the present Lok ~ rr ~ I l:!'i'f 9il11 ~ mmi'flrt ~~ Sabha." (Interruption). ~~ g 1~~ ~,~ Mr. Speaker: Objection was taken ~ ~, ~ ~ ~ .J to the period of five years that that i .. not possible. Therefore, the amend- • I l!Q m ~ ~ ~ f'F m ~ ment has been brought. It is only for ~ ~ ~ I l:!'i'f ofT ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ the duration of the present Lok Sabha. mfu '!iT l!Q 9il11 ~ ~ ~ ~ 8hri Rang.a: Three yean. ~ ~ ~ lIT;;fr 1 ~ ~ t, CfQ ~ ~ iit ~ ~, 'flIT QT ~, Mr. Speaker: Whatever remains. ~ ~ om: it l!Q mlifa- qq;rr f;;;fR ~ i'f'Ii" ~ I ~~ ~, ~~ ~ ~ ;il']" e- f'FlIT ITT\ ~ The Lok Sabh.a. then adjourned till Eleven of the Clock on Tuesday, thtt ~ - ~ ~ ~ November 19, 1963/Kartika 28, 1885 vnITa- ~~ ~ (Sa.ka) . DAILY DIGEST

[Monday, NOfJ.mber 18, I 963!Kartika 27,1885 [Sak.Jj

CoLUMNS WRITTEN ANSWERS TO MEMBER SWORN QUESTIONS---contd. Subject COLUMNS ORAL A:>l'SWERS TO QUES- S.Q. TIONS 1-39 No. 15 Tusker Project 51 S.Q. Subject NQ. 26 Review of Third Plan 51-5l 17 AVRO-748. 5~ Colombo proposals 1-8 28 Submarines for Navy 1 V. O. A. Transmitter 53 Agreement 8-18 29 Nagaland 53-54 3 Technical assistance 30 Expulsion of South from Australia 18-10 AfricaJrom UNO 5S .. Check-posts on Nepal U. S. border 20-2a Q. No. 5 Goa'in U.N. Year Book 22-27 I Educated unemploy- 6 Steel Wage Borrd 27-29 ment in U. P. 55-56 7 Chinese intrusions 29-32 ~ Unemployed women in 8 State Planning Boards 32.-36 U.P. 56 9 Aircraft factory in 3 Indians in U. K. 57 Delhi .. M.E.S. Bikaner 57-58 10 Border raids by Pakis- 5 Third Five Year Plan 58 tan 38-39 6 Working Journalists 59 WRITTEN ANSWERS TO 7 Raid by Pakistanis QUESTIONS 39-100 in Deva Village 0. & K.) 59-60 S.Q. 60 No. 8 Automatic rifles 9 MIG fighters 60-61 Il Conference of Senior 10 Chinese spies in NEFA 61-6~ Officer. of NEFA II Persons of Indian origin I~ Decoding of messages in Ceylon 6l by Chinese u U. N. General As- 13 Quarters for Army scmhly Session 6l personnel 4I-4l 13 ~ a.c ~ of Engi- [.. ASIAN Broadcaster'. neerir,r. Industry 63 Conference 42 -43 14 A.I.R. announcers 63 15 I ndian emigrants to U. K. 15 Code of Discipline for 43-44 civilians 64 16 Frigates for Navy 44 16 Mass Communication 64 17 Sino-Pak border de- 17 Manufacture of tanks 64-65 marcation 44-45 18 Regrouping of villages 18 Sainik School in U.P. 65-66 ill Nagaland . 19 Eharat Sewak Samaj 65-66 19 Demarcation of R, jas- 20 World Journalist. than-West Pakistan Conference 1 border ~I Third Division M.AII ~o Provide und Con- and B. A. s registered tribution 47 in Employment Ex- aI Supersonic fighter air- changes 68 craft ~ International Control ~ .. Iswar Pathshala" Commission in Laos 68-6\1 in East Pakistan 13 Persons of Indian ongin a3 External publicitv in in Ceylon African and Middle 1" Air splce violations by East countries 49-50 Chinese a4 Newsreel on C. P. I. l5 Air space violations by procession in Delhi Pakistanis DAILY DIGEST

WRITTEN ANSWERS TO WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS-contd. QUESTIONS-contd. S.Q. Subject COLUMNS S.Q. Subject COLUl\Ofl No. I No. :26 Indians in Mozambique 72 59 Zonal Committees for collieries :27 ~ In.tian soldiers 72-74 28 Afro-Asian Conference 60 New Model Standing Orders for collieries . Nicosia 74 29 Attack by Pakistanis 61 Arbitration of disputes in Moyel village (J. & in collieries K.) 62 Bankola colliery 30 Indian Air Adviser in 63 Central Government Pakistan i 76-77 Industrial Tribunal. 31 Arrest of a ~ with Dhanbad Chinese currency notes 77-78 64 Khas Chalba1pur Col- 32 B. O. A. C. Empbyces' liery in West Bengal. Union, New Delhi, 65 Programme executives 33 Leeches trouble on for the A.I.R. borders OBITUARY REFERENCES 34 Indians in Keny. The Speaker made references 100-01 35 Aid to Nepal to the passin!! away of Shei 6 Per Capita expenditure Deshpande and Shri U .M. in States 80-81 Thev who were sitting members of Lok Sabha. Shri R. 37 Food prices in NEFA 81-32 S. Rao who Was a member of 38 Welfare fund for iron the First Lok Sahha, Dr. GV. ore workers e., n t II Was mem- 9 Indians from Burma ber of the Central Lcgi,lative ar.d Ceylon Assemblv and Shri Amo- akh hand who wa, a mem- 40 Recruitment of p Jots ber una P Jr- 41 ForeigCl lan:lLlage schools; 42 Foreign a.sistance for Thereafter members stood ordinance factories in silence for a short while 43 Engineering labour in as a mark of rrs pect. Calcutta ADJOURNMENT MOTION 4 Chinese Embassy in New Delhi 85-86 The Speaker gave his consent 101-10 to the mewing of an Adjourn- 45 Land for Jawans 8';-87 men t ~jo given notice of 46 Naga rebels 87-88 by Shri Nath Pai re!(arding 47 Raid by Pakistan on the escape (If Mr. Walcott Assam border in a plane from the Safdar- jung Airport 48 Production of aircraft Shri Nath Paithenaskcdforleave Hindi programmes from of the House to the moving A.I.R., Calcutta 89 of the motion. The leave was granted and the Speaker Delhi textile mill WOr- directed, with the concurren- kers ce ofthc House, that the mo- tion be taken up on the 19th 52 Welfare of ch:ldren November, 1963. 53 Sainik schools PAPERS LAID ON THE 54 Defence exhibition TABLE J12-16 55 Workers education cen- (I) A copy of 'Statistical tres in Punjab 93 Information regarding 56 Film on removal of the working of the Preven- un:ouchability 94 tive Detention Act, 1950, :57 Transmitting station in during the period 30th Sep- the border ar:a of U.P. tember, 1962 to 30th Sep- tember. 1963. S8 Indian libraries in Elst (2) A copy each of the fol- Pakistan 95 lowing papers under sub- 253 [D aily D iqest ] 254

PAP RS LAID ON THE T A BL EP AP E RS LAID ON THE TABLE-wjnfrf.

Colu mns Colu mns section (2) of section 16 (3) A copy each of the fol­ of the Tariff Commission, lowing Repons under sub­ Act, 1951 section (i) of section 619A (a) fi'' Report (1963) of the of the Companies Act, nriff Commission on 1956 the continuance of pro­ (i) Annual Report of the tection to the Automobile Mazagon Dock Limited, Spark Plug Industry . Bombay, for the year en­ ded 31st March, 1963, (it) Government Resolutio along with the Audited No. 8 (i)-Tar/63, dated' Accounts and the com­ the 271 September, ments of the Comptroller 195 . . . and Auditor General (n'O Government Notifi­ thereon . . cation, No. 8(i)-Tar/63, (ii) Annual Report of the dated the 27th September Garden Reach Work­ 1963 • . • shops, Limited, Calcutta, for the year ended 31st (tv) Statement explaining March, 1963, along with reasons why a copy each the Audited Accounts of the documents at (t) and the comments of the to (ij7) above could not be Comptroller and Auditor laid on the Table within General thereon ■ the period prescribed in the said sub-section (4) (a) A copy each of the Notifications under sub­ Report (r 63) of the section (2) of section 7 Tariff Commission on the of the Employees’ Pro­ continuance of protection vident Funds Aa, 1952 to the Engineer’s Steel Files Industry . (t) The Employee’s Pro­ vident Funds (Fifteenth (it) Government Resolu­ Amendment) Scheme, tion No. 7(2)-Tar/63, 1963 published in No­ dated the 27th September, tification No. G.S.R. 1963 • • . 1401 dated the 24th August, 1963 ■ (ttV'' Statement explaining the reasons why a copy (it) The Employees’ Pro- each of the documents at videntFunds (Seventeen­ (0 and (ii) above could th Amendment) Scheme not he laid on the Table 1963 published in Notifi­ within the period pres­ cation No. G. S. R. 1433 cribed in the said sub­ dated the 29th August, section . . . 1963 . • • (c) (i) Report (1963) of the (b) A copy of Notification Tariff Commission on No. G. S. R. 1605, dated the continuance of pro­ the 5th October, 1963 tection to the Piston under sub-section (2) of Assembly (Pistons, Pis­ section 4 of the Employ­ ton Rings and Gudgeon ees’ Provident Funds Pins) Industry . Aa, 1952, extending the said Act to the distilli^ (it) Government Resolu- and rectifying of spirits lution No. 15 (i) Tar,'63, (not falling under indus­ dated the 24th October, trial and power alcohol) 1963 . . . and blending of spirits industry . . . (iii) Statement explaining the reasons why a copy (c) A copy of the Central each of the documents at Apprenticeship Council (i) and (ii) above could (Amendment) Rules, not be laid on the Table 1963 published in Noti­ with n he period prescri­ fication No. G. S. R. bed in the said sub-sec­ 1465, dated the 7th tion . . . September, 1963, under 255 [D a i l y D ig e s t ] 256

PAPERS LAID ON THE C o l u m n s TABLE— contd. supplementary d e m a n d s C o l u m n s FOR GRANTS (GENERAL) FOR 1963-64 117 sub-section (3) of section 37 of the Apprentices The Minister of Finance (Shri A a , 1961 . . . T. T. Krishnamachari) presented a statement (d) A copy of Government showing the Supple­ Resolution No. mentary Demands for WB-5 (i6)/63 dated the Grants (General) for the 27th September, 1963 year 1963-64) . accepting the recommen­ dations of the Central DEMANDS FOR EXCESS Wage board for Jute GRANTS (RAILWAYS) Industry . . . FOR 1961-62 117 PRESIDENT’S ASSEN T TO The Minister of Railways (Shri BILLS . 116-17 H. C. Dasappa) presen­ ted a statement showing Secretary laid on the Table the Demands for Excess copies of the following Bills Grants in respect of the passed by the Houses of Par­ Budget (Railways) for . liament and assented to by the 1961-62 . . . ' president . . . (1) The Export (Quality EXTENSION OF TIME FOR Control and Inspection) PRESENTATION OF Bill;, 1963 . . . REPORT OF JOINT COM­ (2) The All-India Services M ITTE E (Amendment) Bill, 1963 The time for presentation of the (3) The Institutes of Tech­ Report of the Joint Com­ nology (Amendment) mittee on the Constitution Bill, 1963 . . . (Seventeenth Amend­ (4) The Special Marriage ment) Bill was exten­ (Amendment) Bill, 1963 ded upto the last day of the first week of the next (5) The Indian Sale of session . . . 117-22 Goods (Amendment) Bill, 1963 . . . M O TO N RE : COMMITTEE (6) The Warehousing Cor­ ON PUBLIC UNDERTA­ porations (Amendment) K IN G S 122-48 Bill, 1963 . . . The Minister of Industry (Shri (7) The Dramatic Per­ Kanungo) concluded his formances (Delhi Repeal) speech on the motions re: Bill, 1963 . . . Comittee on Public Under­ (8) The Limitation, Bill, takings moved by him 1963 ... on the 2ist September, (9) The Constitution (Fif­ 1963 The discussion teenth Amendment) was not concluded . Bill, 1963 . . . AGENDA FOR TUESDAY, (10) The Constitution (Six­ NOVEMBER, 19, 1963/ teenth Amendment) KARTIKA, 28, i 885(SAKA) Bill, 1963 . . . (11) The Personnel Injuries Further discussion on the (Compensation Insurance) motions re : Committee Bill, 1963 . . . on Public Undertakings. Discussion on Adjournment (12) The Major Port Trusts Motion re : escape of Bill, 1963 . . . Mr. Walcott in a plane .

GM G IPN D — LS 11— 1383 (ai) L SD — 29-11-63— 880