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YOUR VOICE IN PARLIAMENT

THE SECONDSECOND MEETING MEETING OF THEOF SECONDTHE FIFTH SESSION SESSION OF THEOF THEELEVEN TWELFTHTH PARLIAMENT PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 04 MARCH 2021

MIXEDENGLISH VERSION VERSION HANSARDHANSARD NO. 193201

DISCLAIMER Uno cial Hansard This transcript of Parliamentary proceedings is an uno cial version of the Hansard and may contain inaccuracies. It is hereby published for general purposes only. The nal edited version of the Hansard will be published when available and can be obtained from the Assistant Clerk (Editorial). THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon. Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP. DEPUTY SPEAKER The Hon. Mabuse M. Pule, MP. (Mochudi East)

Clerk of the National Assembly - Ms B. N. Dithapo Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe Learned Parliamentary Counsel - Ms M. Mokgosi Assistant Clerk (E) - Mr R. Josiah CABINET His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP. - President

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP. (Boteti West) - Vice President Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Hon. K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP. (Molepolole South) - Administration

Hon. K. T. Mmusi, MP. (Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security

Hon. Dr L. Kwape, MP. (Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon. E. M. Molale, MP. (Goodhope-Mabule ) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon. K. S. Gare, MP. (Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation Hon. P. K. Kereng, MP. (Specially Elected) - and Tourism Hon. Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP. (Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon. T.M. Segokgo, MP. (Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon. K. Mzwinila, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. T. M. Rakgare, MP. (Mogoditshane) - Development

Hon. A. M. Mokgethi, MP. (Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon. Dr T. Matsheka, MP. (Lobatse) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon. F. M. M. Molao, MP. (Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Hon. Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP. (Tati East) - Technology Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Hon. L. M. Moagi, MP. (Ramotswa) - Energy Security

Hon. P. O. Serame, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Hon. M. Balopi, MP. (Gaborone North) - Development

Hon. M. Kgafela, MP. (Mochudi West) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development

Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Hon. D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP. (Gaborone South) - Public Administration Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. K. K. Autlwetse, MP. (Specially Elected) - Development Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. S. N. Modukanele, MP. (Lerala -Maunatlala) - Development Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Hon. B. Manake, MP. (Specially Elected) - Security

Hon. S. Lelatisitswe, MP. (Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness

Hon. N. W. T. Makwinja, MP. (Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education

Hon. M. S. Molebatsi, MP. (Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. H. B. Billy, MP. (Francistown East) - Development Hon. M. R. Shamukuni, MP. (Chobe) - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES

Names Constituency

RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon. L. Kablay, MP. (Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe Hon. Dr U. Dow, MP. Specially Elected Hon. P. Majaga, MP. Nata-Gweta Hon. M. I. Moswaane, MP. Francistown West Hon. J. S. Brooks, MP. Kgalagadi South Hon. C. Greeff, MP. Gaborone Bonnington South Hon. T. Letsholo, MP. Kanye North Hon. T. F. Leuwe, MP. Takatokwane Hon. T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP. Gaborone Central Hon. S. N. Moabi, MP. Tati West Hon. T. Monnakgotla, MP. Kgalagadi North Hon. P. K. Motaosane, MP. Thamaga-Kumakwane Hon. O. Regoeng, MP. Molepolole North Hon. J. L. Thiite, MP. Ghanzi North Hon. A. Lesaso, MP. Shoshong Hon. P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP. Tonota OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon. D. Saleshando, MP. (Leader of Opposition) Maun West Hon. M. G. J. Motsamai, MP. (Opposition Whip) Ghanzi South Hon. D. L. Keorapetse, MP. Selebi Phikwe West Hon. Y. Boko, MP Mahalapye East Hon. Dr K. Gobotswang, MP. Sefhare-Ramokgonami Hon. C. K. Hikuama, MP. Ngami Hon. K. K. Kapinga, MP Okavango Hon. G. Kekgonegile, MP. Maun East Hon. T. B. Lucas, MP. Bobonong Hon. K. Nkawana, MP. Selebi Phikwe East Hon. O. Ramogapi, MP. Palapye Hon. Dr N. Tshabang, MP. Nkange Hon. D. Tshere, MP. Mahalapye West (Botswana Patriotic Front) Hon. T. S. Khama, MP. Serowe West Hon. L. Lesedi, MP. Serowe South Hon. B. Mathoothe, MP. Serowe North Hon. M. R. Reatile, MP. Jwaneng-Mabutsane (Alliance for Progressives) Hon. W. B. Mmolotsi, MP. Francistown South TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 4TH MARCH, 2021

CONTENTS PAGE (S) Electoral (Amendment) Bill, 2020 (No. 21 of 2020) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)...... 1-19

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER...... 20-23 STATEMENT 2020 BGCSE Results...... 24-27

APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) - Committee of Supply Organisation 0300-Ministry of Finance and Economic Development (Resumed Debate)...... 28-49

Organisation 0700-Ministry of Investment, Trade and Industry...... 50-59 Thursday 4th March, 2021 ELECTORAL (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2020 (NO. 21 OF 2020) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)

Thursday 4th March, 2021 Mr Speaker, I think issues have been addressed, security and delay. However, we know where the issue is Mr THE ASSEMBLY met at 11:00 a.m. Speaker, we know that people are lamenting saying they (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) were cheated in the elections. Honourable Saleshando has not come out clearly to address this issue of rigging; P R A Y E R S saying it out blatantly that, “I believe in the just ended **** elections, there was rigging.” You can see that the amendment he is bringing is inspired by his colleagues MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Order! Order! at the Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC) to come Honourable Members, good morning. Let us start up with such issues. our business of today with the Second Reading of the Electoral Bill. We have to consider this matter in this way Mr Speaker, how it is going to affect the stakeholders who assist us ELECTORAL (AMENDMENT) BILL, so that our democracy could progress, that we should 2020 (NO. 21 OF 2020) strengthen it and augment it. Take the media as an Second Reading example; are we saying if we are going to do this, the media who have vested interest in the Parliamentary (Resumed Debate) results, very much so as we always see it happening; will they be able to divide themselves in 10 wards in MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Members, the the Mogoditshane constituency, to see how the results of debate on this Bill is resuming. When the House the Parliamentary candidate are going? Let us talk of the adjourned last week Thursday, Honourable Rakgare was build-up towards the release of the results, as we always on the floor and he is left with four minutes 30 seconds. see what happens during elections; do we believe our MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, media has capacity to do so? I do not think so. I think SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR it is important for us to continue doing things as we RAKGARE): I thank you Mr Speaker. I was still have been doing, and maybe consider what we could saying the issue that was brought by the Leader of the do regarding the delay, which is the pain for most of Opposition is focusing on the security of the ballots, as us. The one on security is just talk, and there is nothing if they are in danger, so it means he thinks this should be about it. When you ask a person what the problem with put in order to allay all the fears. Not only that, the issue the way we run our elections is, they say, “we suspect of delay is also one of the issues that are bothering him, the elections were rigged in 2019.” What informs this he believes the two issues have to be addressed. allegation? There is nothing they have to say about Mr Speaker, it is true regarding the delay, I have already that, all they talk about is the Tshiamo ballot box. Mr pointed out that I agree with him. The only unfortunate Speaker, you clarified what happened last time. thing is that those on his side, some of them maybe did not read what he brought, as you heard Honourable So, in conclusion, there are no reasons for doing what Kekgonegile saying it seems we did not read properly. people are trying to do. I believe we have to oppose According to the Leader of the Opposition, the issue this Bill as brought by the opposition, because its aim is that we are still going to have transportation of is nothing other than continuing their rhetoric that the ballot boxes to the polling district headquarters, where BDP rigged the 2019 elections, when they know that the ballots for the wards are going to be counted. they lost the 2019 General Elections, and rightfully so For example, in Mogoditshane Constituency, where because there were those who did what Batswana could I come from which is Nkoyaphiri Central, we use not support. Mogoditshane Junior Secondary School as the counting With those remarks Mr Speaker, I would like to station. That is where the ballots for Parliamentary appreciate that you gave me the opportunity, but if there candidates for the Nkoyaphiri Central Ward, which is was time, I would prove that one of the former leaders part of Mogoditshane, part of the 10 wards we have in in Gaborone… Mogoditshane are counted there too. That is why I am saying at the end of the day, these boxes will still require MR SPEAKER: It has elapsed Honourable Minister. to be transported there.

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MR MATHOOTHE (SEROWE NORTH): Thank would already be known. The ballot boxes would also you Mr Speaker. Let me point out that I support the Bill be transported from other wards to the central point and that has just been presented before us, that we should that is what this Bill is saying. It is not talking about amended the Electoral Act. It is very important that petitions and rigging, it is rather talking about improving when we talk about this issue, we should talk about it the electoral processes. When you take my Constituency focusing on how the request was presented. If we do for instance, what we are saying is that when the ballot not want to agree with it, we should not start talking box for Parliamentarian is taken from Gojwane to about the Tshiamo ballot boxes and petitions. We should Serowe, the counting process should be carried out at not consider those. We have to consider how this Bill the ward since it is going to move 140 kilometers (km) could benefit Batswana, regardless of whether one all the way to Serowe. This is what we are saying. Some is at the Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) or in the dangers can arise when the ballot box travels a longer opposition. We should consider it as a good Bill as it has distance. Let us stop the whole process of transporting been presented, which could improve the way elections ballot boxes for a longer distance at a high speed and are run. being escorted. What we are saying is that when the counting process is carried out at the wards, the only I would like to agree with this Bill because the mover thing that would be left to do is to sum up the results of the Bill considered all the necessary points. This Bill when we get to headquarters. is in line with how the BDP does things at the primary MR BOKO: Elucidation. Thank you Mr Speaker if at elections. This can show you that this amendment was all you are giving me a chance. Honourable Member, brought without considering parties, it was brought I am grateful of how you started your debate and how considering the fact that there is a benefit which, when you continue to debate. I want you to explain the issue the BDP is relaxing in its space, they sometimes do of National Stakeholder’s Evaluation Report for the something along these lines. We are saying that process, Botswana 2019 General Elections. They work with which they noticed to be important even to them; we issues pertaining to elections more that Honourable are also saying it could benefit Botswana. I would like Rakgare or any other Minister here. According to the to say when the BDP deals with its primary elections, National Stakeholder’s report, it is appropriate for the where elections take place at the wards, they count the counting process to be carried out at the wards or areas ballots there, and then all the results would be put in one where the voting process took place. What are you place. This is what this amendment Bill is saying. We saying about that point in relation to what other MPs would like to say they should not just oppose this Bill said, Honourable Kablay among others? They are the because the opposition has brought it. ones who spearhead issues pertaining to elections and We should look into this Bill in terms of transportation; they are saying that that is how things should be done. if elections are held at Honourable Morwaeng’s Thank you. constituency, what this Bill is saying is that instead of taking the ballot box from Mmanoko to Molepolole, the MR MATHOOTHE: Thank you Honourable Boko. counting process should be carried out there together That is the exact Bill that we are presenting here today. with Councilor’s ballots. The verification process If there is someone who can reject this straightforward should also be done there. So when the counting procedure... what they are saying is that... process is carried out there together with verification, MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mathoothe, Honourable you can see that they work with a smaller number hence Moagi is also asking for clarification. verification will be quick. MR MATHOOTHE: My time is limited sir, let me I want to elaborate this point due to the reason that proceed. I want to explain these things so that they Honourable Rakgare agreed that indeed verification can understand them, and they should not interrupt me slows down the whole process. When all these processes because we are talking about issues... are carried out at the wards, this means that we would have saved time that we could have taken to assemble HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)... everything at the central point hence the counting and MR SPEAKER: No clarifications. Yes please, continue. verification processes will be quicker and easier. If it is like that, when boxes are transported from Mmanoko MR MATHOOTHE: I want them to understand these to Molepolole, the Council and Parliamentary results things because the practice that I am talking about is

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being done by BDP. This is the easiest practice and the travel more than 50 km. That is why we are saying that incoming reports are also emphasising the same thing. in terms of transport, they would be travelling a short Today we come here with a national issue and people distance. When they travel a short distance, they cannot want to reject it just because it is proposed by Leader experience major challenges as compared to when they of the Opposition (LOO). We are not doing justice travel a longer distance. When it is like that, counting to ourselves. As I said, when the counting process is of ballots would be easy for them to be verified. That is carried out there, it reduces instances where observers why I support this Bill, it is straightforward. Everyone in would say, “we were not transported in the car. The Botswana understands that the issue that we are raising car had a puncture along the way,” even though it was is the only way to improve this situation and eliminate carrying the ballot box. This practice can eliminate all doubts. There are uncertainties which are sometimes the uncertainties that might be there. there; saying that when these boxes move for 150 km, some people swap them along the way. If this Bill can be The issue of Police Officers; when we talk about our passed, doubts would be eliminated when the counting constituencies, things are going to be easy for police process is carried out on the spot and results are sent officers and people who would be there to count ballots to the central point. That is what I believe Mr Speaker. because they would be dealing with smaller numbers Thank you. instead of collecting boxes for three days, collecting MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Mathoothe. boxes even from Council wards. When you assemble We should remind ourselves that last week, we had them in one place, they will require top security because agreed to be 10 minutes each. they would be many in one place. When you talk about ballot boxes which do not exceed four in one ward, it MR LEUWE (TAKATOKWANE): Thank you Mr means that now you are dealing with a small number Speaker and good morning sir. Thank you Mr Speaker of ballot boxes and it will be easy for you to detect any for giving me an opportunity to comment on the Bill suspicions, instead of grouping all the security because pertaining to the Electoral Act. I believe and I know there are more than 50 in one area. I believe that the Bill that in Botswana, there is a procedure that we have here does not have any uncertainties, it is upright and to follow. There are some laws that we have to abide we should not bring petty issues when we debate it. We by and there are laws that we have to agree on. Let should just be firm and point out that this practice can me start by pointing out that there are some reasons help us to accomplish a whole lot of things. which compel me not to support this Motion. They are not the reasons that I hear the Honourable Members There is a certain issue that we raised in relation to alluding, that we do not support it only because it transport. comes from the opposition. I want to show them that HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. I asked for there are some reasons why I do not support this Bill clarification Mr Speaker. and it is not only because it is proposed by opposition. Personally, when I agree with a Bill, I rise confidently MR SPEAKER: He rejected it saying that he does not to support it. For example, I supported the Motion want clarification. He rejected them. which was presented by Honourable Gobotswang of the Opposition and I do not pay attention to the fact that MR MATHOOTHE: Members of the BDP are aware he is from the opposition, I paid attention to his solid of this procedure, so I do not know what clarifications supporting points which also affect my constituents they are asking for, while they know that they are doing and I supported it without any problem who it came this practice. They just want to derail us. with because it works for Batswana. So this Bill, just They raised an issue of costs and I do not think that there like I was saying that the laws we implement or all is anything here that can rise costs steeply. What we the laws in Botswana, are worth being laws because are saying is that if the ward has polling stations, they they do not clash with the Constitution of the country. are still going to be transported in vehicles. The thing According to my understanding, I believe that this Bill is, when a ballot box moves from Majwanaadipitse will not be good because it is going to clash with what to Tshimoyapula, we are talking about less than 20 the Constitution of Botswana is saying. Section 32 (3) km. This means that those kilometers are not equal (c) fully explains that they should be counted at the to the kilometers that could have been travelled when constituency. It does not say anything about counting transporting the box to Serowe, because now you will them at the wards. So Honourable Leuwe’s belief is that,

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when we come up with this Bill of the Electoral Act, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR we will be going against the Constitution, which is not SALESHANDO): Point of order. Mr Speaker, you will according to procedure. Even if this Bill may be okay, recall that last week Honourable Mthimkhulu raised an there is no way we can implement it without going back issue that this proposed amendment is going against to the Constitution. the Constitution. Honourable Molale also said that. Honourable Leuwe is saying that he can only support What I believe can work for us as Honourable Members it if it was not for the Constitution. I suspect there are a because we are law makers, is to maybe go back to the number of others who believe that. We have a learned Constitution and amend it first, looking at the reasons Counsel in Parliament Mr Speaker and I request that we were given by Honourable Saleshando about time. they explain whether it is true that Section 32 (3)(c) that Issues of cheating Mr Speaker, I do not think there Honourable Leuwe is talking about, goes against this can be any cheating in Botswana elections, the way I Bill that if we approve it, it will not be possible because always see how they are conducted, especially since I it will go against the Constitution. I just request that they have worked with them when I was in the police service. explain it as people who deal with the law that if indeed There cannot be any cheating when there are 15 people it is like Honourable Leuwe is saying. there, and every one of them is from a different political party. There is no way they can allow cheating. So the HONOURABLE MEMBER: There is nothing there… reason that is valid is the one of time, that it takes long (Laughter!) … for election results to be provided. So that is why I am saying that even though this law may be solid, okay, we HONOURABLE MEMBER: It does not say that, I can agree with it, Honourable Leuwe’s main problem is have also read it. that, it is creating a friction with the Constitution which MR SPEAKER: To be fair to Honourable Leuwe, he is not according to the law in Botswana to implement says, ‘as he read it.’ He is not pretending to be a lawyer, a Bill that clashes with the Constitution of Botswana. I but let us ask Legal Counsel for help here. Section 32 wish that… (4).

HONOURABLE MEMBER: In which section MR SALESHANDO: Mr Speaker, he said 32 (3) (c) Honourable Leuwe? the way Honourable Leuwe said it.

MR LEUWE: Can you not hear me? MR SPEAKER: Yes, Counsel is looking at that.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, I did not hear the MR SALESHANDO: Yes sir. section, I want to read it. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Leuwe you will get MR LEUWE: I am never interrupted because I never yourself arrested. … (Laughter!) … interrupt anyone. You will find that on the Hansard, and you will see which section I was talking about HONOURABLE MEMBER: It does not say that Honourable Keorapetse. Honourable Members.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: 32 (3) (c). MR LEUWE: Can I continue Mr Speaker?

MR LEUWE: With due respect, I never interrupt MR SPEAKER: Let us confirm first. We have frozen anyone when he or she is speaking because I want to your time; you cannot lose any time. be given that respect. That is why I give others respect when they are speaking. Right now you are trying to MR LEUWE: Thank you. mislead me Honourable Keorapetse Dithapelo. HONOURABLE MEMBER: It means when you One thing that can be useful for us to end up dealing with are from one constituency to another, not the same this clause, because of the reasons that were provided by constituency. … (Laughter!) … Honourable Saleshando, of time, which I also agree that MR SPEAKER: Honourable Ramogapi. it takes long for election results to be provided… MR RAMOGAPI: Honourable Speaker. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Saleshando wants a point of order. Freeze the clock. MR SPEAKER: We are far from Palapye.

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MR RAMOGAPI: I did not hear that Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR SPEAKER: I am saying we are far from Palapye. MR SPEAKER: Clarification from who?

MR RAMOGAPI: Yes, I can hear you Mr Speaker … HONOURABLE MEMBER: Keorapetse. (Laughter!) … HONOURABLE MEMBER: Whom are you asking? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Are you even scared? MR SPEAKER: For what? Whom are you asking? Are HONOURABLE MEMBER: … (Laughter!) … you asking Honourable Leuwe?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: … (Laughter!) … Hard HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, I am asking the PC. Rock. MR SPEAKER: Why? LEARNED PARLIAMENTARY COUNSEL (MS KOKORO): Thank you Mr Speaker. So that we are all HONOURABLE MEMBER: She is not holding the on the same page, I think it would be fair to refer to the floor. cited Section 32 (3) (c). If I may read it Mr Speaker? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Oh, she is.

MR SPEAKER: Yes please. MR SPEAKER: No!

MS KOKORO It reads; the following provision shall HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, I am asking if there then apply. It relates to election of the President after is not another clause that they can use as an excuse. dissolution of Parliament, and it reads; if I just go to the relevant Sub-Section 3. It talks about after Parliament MR SPEAKER: No, you cannot answer that. has been dissolved, what should happen when the HONOURABLE MEMBER: … (Laughter!) … President is… How the elections will be conducted, it says at (3), the following shall then apply, (c), “where MR SPEAKER: According to Counsel, the Bill before the Parliamentary election is contested in a constituency, you does not clash with the provision of the Constitution a poll shall be taken in that constituency at which the quoted by the Honourable Member. You may continue votes shall be given by ballot, and for the purposes of Honourable Leuwe. that poll, any Parliamentary candidate who declared support in accordance with Paragraph ‘a’ for a particular MR LEUWE: Thank you Mr Speaker. I am thankful Presidential candidate, shall use the same voting colour for the clarification by the Attorney. That is her opinion. and symbol if any, as may have been allocated under That is how she explains it and I am explaining it the way any law for the time being in purpose in Botswana I understand it, so it is not a problem for me to explain for that Presidential candidate for the purposes of the it that way, even in Court of Law, everyone can explain Presidential election.” Just from reading that, there is not a law in a way they understand it. I am still saying that. anything that is talking about the counting of the ballot I do not agree with this law because it clashes with the Constitution of Botswana. That is my understanding. I which is something altogether left to the Electoral Act. do not think someone can put it the way I understand it, So, the cited Section 32 (3) (c) if it is the reason being in any way. That is what I believe. That is why even in advanced that it collides or it is being contravened, that her conclusion; she says that was her own opinion. That cannot be, because this provision talks about something is my opinion. altogether separate from the counting of the ballots. The counting of ballot from my reading is something In addition, what makes me sceptical about this Bill, that is a procedure that is left to the Electoral Act. The even if there was one reason which I picked from the Constitution is not talking about that at all. The argument Leader of the Opposition which I agreed with; the issue in my option cannot stand. Thank you Mr Speaker. is that once the counting has been done, and then there is travelling involved with the ballot boxes, the reason HONOURABLE MEMBER: It is fraud. advanced was that vehicles encounter punctures in the middle of nowhere, hence the rigging comes to play. The HONOURABLE MEMBER: You really understand question is, if the results are released, will the vehicles the law like someone from Mahalapye. not have punctures? They can have punctures. When

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leaving the polling station there is no counting that will MR SPEAKER: Honourable Tsogwane is asking for take place later, the results would be known, they would procedure. be traveling knowing the results; hence I have a doubt MR LEUWE: Who? and fear because there could be danger, in the sense that if they have a box, there would be no one who would MR SPEAKER: Honourable Tsogwane; the Vice be aware as to what the results are, and everyone would President (VP). be anticipating that what is in the box will be to their MR LEUWE: Okay. advantage, and nobody else’s. If they would know that there are many possibilities for hindrances for the boxes LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): to arrive, as perpetrated by someone, not any party; Procedure. Thank you Mr Speaker. When I came in, I in any way some party could make sure that there is observed that Honourable Mathoothe had more time, a glitch, they would know that if the results could be but looking at Honourable Leuwe’s time, it seems to be joined with those at such and such a place…there are a little less. I would like to understand how much time phones, we communicate. It would then show a person they are given, or was he given that much time because that if they join these dots, they could come up with this. he is the Acting Leader of the Minority, or what? I Now it becomes a huge challenge. It is okay when it is just wanted to know how much time we are given Mr there, being escorted, everyone being hopeful that the Speaker, through that point of procedure. I thank you. results in the box would bring them to Parliament… MR SPEAKER: 10 minutes! 10 minutes and that is what Honourable Mathoothe got. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, point of order. MR LEUWE: Thank you Mr Speaker. I thank you for that explanation sir, you explained it the way I did. I MR LEUWE: …or take the President to his presidency. do not know what the Parliament prefects want us to Now when we know… say to them. There is no mistake that I made; neither MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moswaane point of order. did the Attorney make one. She explained it the way she understood it. I am also explaining it the way I MR LEUWE: I have that challenge Honourable. understand it. That is how the law is, each one of us has their own interpretation, and how we understand it. You MR MOSWAANE: Point of order. Mr Speaker, you explained it very well and thank you for rescuing me had agreed with giving the Parliament Attorney a from Parliamentary prefects. chance to make an interpretation of the law, and I am a bit sceptical when you keep saying it is her own opinion I was still talking about the danger aspect of travelling when interpreting the law. I do not know if we would with the results. I see that one as being more dangerous be giving Batswana a good report that hers and that than anything because one would already know what of Honourable Leuwe are good. If that is not the case the situation is like. If one has no idea what the situation Mr Speaker, I request that you call Honourable Leuwe is like, they remain hopeful, as they go around escorting to order so that he would know that the interpretation this ballot box; protecting it with the belief that some has been ...(Inaudible)… and the entire country, so that votes in there belong to you. Therefore, when you travel Batswana can listen. He should not say his opinion is knowing the results, adding this and that, they can good, and the one by the Parliamentary Counsel (PC) is misbehave. I am not referring to any particular party; also good. I do not think we would be in order. Thank there is no one who knows which party can do that. you. Although I know those who are capable of doing that, but it can happen from both sides of parties, either the MR SPEAKER: I think we heard him quite clearly opposition… that he has an opinion about the section he read and I do not think you can debate his opinion here. Counsel HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr has given you an interpretation of the Constitution Speaker. and Honourable Leuwe says yes, I have heard, but my opinion stands. There is nothing out of order there. We MR LEUWE: …either party which was contesting cannot debate opinions. for elections; their people can do that. In some cases, the leader would not even have sent them to do that, HONOURABLE MEMBER: Thank you. because…

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MR MMOLOTSI: Point of order. Thank you very said it is my opinion, is that how we should carry on in much Mr Speaker. Honourable Leuwe cannot say Parliament? Would that be in order? I mean the provision Members of Parliament are prefects. Therefore, Mr that PC is citing is very clear, it is unambiguous that Speaker, although Honourable Leuwe does not like the Bill we are discussing does not clash with the being guided, he should not label or use titles that the Constitution. Members are not addressed with. These are Honourable Members. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Keorapetse, that is your opinion. MR SPEAKER: Leuwe has observed that some Members want to teach people what the procedure is, MR KEORAPETSE: What? That Mahalapye is in the when it is not their issue. North-West? MR SPEAKER: That is your opinion. MR LEUWE: Thank you Mr Speaker, that is why all the time I become exemplary. When Honourable Mmolotsi MR KEORAPETSE: Is this how we are going to is debating, I never interject him and I know he has turned proceed now in Parliament? I mean it is an... himself into a prefect because he interjects everyone. There is nothing he ever agrees with. Therefore, I was MR SPEAKER: I have no time for this kind of stuff. simply trying to show that when another Member is on MR KEORAPETSE: Should we proceed... the floor, allow them to debate. Do not disturb them, do not waste their time. What Honourable Mmolotsi wants MR SPEAKER: You can proceed …(Inaudible)… to do is just to use up my time and deviate me from the basis and see how far it will take you. timing Mr Speaker. I did not say anything wrong, and the word prefect is not an insulting word, it is not even Honourable Modukanele followed by Honourable a word which can sound provocative. It simply refers Hikuama. to someone who leads others. It is not something which ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL can annoy to the extent of calling for procedure or order, GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT saying I said something wrong. (MR MODUKANELE): Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me Mr Speaker, based on the reasons I have presented thank you for the opportunity to comment in the proposed before this Parliament, I am saying I do not support this amendment by the Leader of the Opposition. Mr Speaker, Bill until we amend the Constitution, and it is just about I will not be long. I would like to point out that I have to be reviewed, maybe it should come forth, so that it c h a l l e n g e s w i t h t w o o r t h r e e t h i n g s . T h e fi r s t c h a l l e n g e fixes some Clauses which have to do with the Electoral which makes me not agree with this Bill is the timing. Act, he should not just go and pick that one issue Mr That is one. I have a problem because right now were Speaker. With those remarks, I oppose this Bill. I thank are here, LOO comes up with a Bill he is bringing at you. this point in time. What is the import of this proposed amendment at this point in time? In my view, I have a MR SPEAKER: Honourable Modukanele, followed by problem with the fact that we are just from the elections, Honourable Hikuama. and after those elections, we went to the Courts of law to air whichever grievances we were airing. Since we were HONOURABLE MEMBER: You denied me a not successful at the Courts of Law, are we now coming clarification. to Parliament to justify the points which we tried to raise at the Courts of Law Mr Speaker? That is my problem MR KEORAPETSE: Mr Speaker, I have long stood number one. on a point of order, even before Honourable Mmolotsi and Honourable… So having said that, we come here... everything that was alluded Mr Speaker, I want to make a few comments on MR SPEAKER: Point of order. Let us hear you. what was said by Honourable Leuwe, that last time we MR KEORAPETSE: Point of order. Mr Speaker, is were still in this very Parliament when LOO and others it in order knowing very well that Mahalapye is in the argued that we have a tendency of doing piecemeal. Central District, and then I come to Parliament saying They always shock us and even today I am shocked in my opinion it is in the North-West, and then it is that the very same people who talked about piecemeal

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are the very same people who are coming now proves beyond doubt that whichever way we go, there saying, we should do things this way. As Honourable is still going to be transportation of ballot papers one Leuwe alluded, we are saying that we proposed that way or another. That is why I am asking if what we are we should go and carry out a Constitutional Review, saying here is exactly what we want or there are some so why not give space and time so that things can be hidden agendas which are the import of this proposed done accordingly and according to the procedure and amendment. I have suspicions that we are not stating complete everything Mr Speaker? Instead of coming exactly what we want because if at all we are saying here...I have a problem with coming here and saying that our problem is transportation of ballots, I think we that when ballots are counted at the central point, they could be saying something else but there is no way they are transported in vehicles and cheating takes place and cannot be…and the proposer of the amendment admits that substances are poured on them to change them. I do that indeed, there will be movements of ballots and not agree with that because that on its own is going to transportation as Honourable Rakgare has just quoted. give the nation the impression that we give credence to Thank you Honourable Minister for that intervention in the grievances which were aired at the Courts of Law that regard. last time when people said that elections were rigged. In conclusion Mr Speaker, like I said, the whole purpose of the Electoral Act is to ensure the delivery of credible Mr Speaker, the whole purpose of the Electoral Act is to election results and I have never heard anyone, including ensure delivery of credible results of elections. I think the LOO himself saying that there is a problem or nobody, even those who were allegedly quoted saying raising any other concern about the results, except for that electoral processes should be improved...I am not issues where they are saying rigging! Rigging! As for against those improvements, but none of those people... the issue of rigging, there are institutes where the matter MR SPEAKER: Honourable Modukanele, Honourable can be presented in order for prosecution to take place Rakgare is asking for clarification. if at all there is rigging of elections. For the time I have been involved in the politics of this country, all the MR MODUKANELE: Honourable Rakgare, I yield time I have participated in the elections of this country, Mr Speaker. I have never heard anyone coming with evidence in which he or she says that indeed when ballot boxes MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, were transported from Matlhakola to Lerala, the vehicle SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR stopped along the way and this happened. I do not know RAKGARE): Thank you very much Honourable about other Constituencies, but if that is the case, they Member. Mr Speaker, if you may allow me to quote should have provided evidence instead of coming here from the statement that LOO premised his request on. to speculate and ask for improvement on something MR SPEAKER: Yes, please. that... even though we are sometimes accused of having the ‘why fix it if it is not broken mentality’. I want to MR RAKGARE: Yes sir. On paragraph 8, that is page state that over the previous years which we have held 2; “The object of this Bill is to amend the Electoral Act to elections, this Act has given us credible election results facilitate the counting of ballots for both Parliamentary and that is the whole purpose of this Act. What are we and council elections at polling district headquarters questioning today? If they are saying that there are no and thereafter, for the results to be conveyed to the credible results right now and that there is cheating, why constituency headquarters for collation and confirmation did Ramogapi not question that he won through rigging of the winning candidates.” As he says this Honourable at Palapye? Why are all other people in this Parliament Modukanele, they have been saying that they are not saying that there were no credible results where they disturbed by the whole process of transporting ballot won? Why should it be only be about where they lost boxes. Is it quite clear as to what these people want Mr Speaker? since the ballot papers for Parliamentary candidates are still going to be counted at polling districts which means Mr Speaker in short, I do not support the proposed that there is still going to be transportation of ballots? amendment. The timing is wrong. The timing is suspicious and all that kind of jazz, so I do not support MR MODUKANELE: Thank you Honourable it and I want to be very, very clear that the purpose of Member, Honourable Rakgare. Thank you Mr Speaker. the Act is to deliver a credible election result and that is Mr Speaker, what Honourable Rakgare has just quoted what it has given us over the years. For that reason, there

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is no need for us today to be seated here saying that we MR SPEAKER: Honourable Keorapetse is asking for are amending anything. I thank you Mr Speaker. clarification. MR HIKUAMA: I yield, quickly comrade. MR HIKUAMA (NGAMI): Thank you Mr Speaker. I thought I should rise and support the Bill which is HONOURABLE MEMBER: I stood up on procedure presented by the Member of Parliament for Maun West, Mr Speaker on the chat before Honourable Keorapetse. who is also Leader of the Opposition here in Parliament. HONOURABLE MEMBER: I also requested for I support this Bill because it seeks to strengthen and clarification on the chat. improve the way we perceive elections. Let me agree with the Honourable Member who has just debated that MR KEORAPETSE: Should I continue Mr Speaker? the purpose of the Act is to facilitate a credible vote, MR SPEAKER: Yes sir. but credibility goes with how people perceive things and how they gratify themselves. Counting ballots MR KEORAPETSE: Quickly Honourable Member, do you not wonder what might be causing this papers at polling stations or polling district headquarters hypocrisy where the primary elections of the BDP are brings credibility because everyone who could have had counted at the polling stations, but when it comes to doubts is close to his or her polling station and he or she this recommendation which countries are encouraged to can observe the counting process and be satisfied that implement, the likes of Southern African Development there was no cheating. When you transport ballot boxes Community-Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) and to another place, the person who remains behind in his International Institute for Democracy and Electoral or her ward can have suspicions that results might have Assistance (IDEA) and then they do not agree with it? been tampered with along the way since we sometimes They apply it at their primary elections but in general hear allegations that people run away with ballot boxes. elections they do not want it to be implemented at all. So issues that people ran away with ballot boxes and How do you contemplate this hypocrisy? others would go down because the transportation MR HIKUAMA: No, I do not think it is just hypocrisy distance would be short to an extent that everyone who from nowhere. Honourable Members like Honourable was involved at a polling station can be able to walk Rakgare has already indicated that they do not agree to the polling district centre where the counting process with it because it is from the Opposition parties. It is not is carried out since it would be close by. Even if your that they do not agree with the principle and the import vehicle is not fit, you can still arrive on time but if the of this Bill. distance is longer, it becomes difficult for one to go and observe the whole electoral process to the end. LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): On a point of procedure. Thank you Mr Speaker. My I am failing to understand Ministers like Honourable procedure is really not that much on what was said Rakgare when he says that there will still be by Honourable Member of Parliament Hikuama; it is transportation of boxes to another place, does he want according to Parliament procedure which we saw you to tell me that according to him the distance from try to explain yesterday Mr Speaker. It is just that when Xaxa to Xauwa, is the same as the distance from Xaxa the other one began he said, ‘Honourable Member of to Sehithwa. It is just that according to him distance Parliament for Maun West, who is the Leader of the does not count, and it does not mean anything. The Opposition parties in Parliament.’ Yesterday, the LOO importance of this Bill is to reduce the distance that agreed that when he brings lists, he brings the ones for will be travelled with the ballot boxes. That thing on its UDC, this should be clear and should not mess up the own will improve and make the job easier. Imagine, the procedure. It should be known that it is the Leader of all election results at Ngami Constituency were provided Opposition parties, and if it is Alliance for Progressives on Saturday morning because they were delayed by a (AP) and Botswana Patriotic Front (BPF), he is not their box from Jao; some kilometres away from Sehithwa leader in Parliament as the LOO. I take it that this should where counting takes place. If the box from Jao can be known in future Mr Speaker. Thank you. go to Etsha 13, very short distance, and when a boat HONOURABLE MEMBER: Is that a procedure? arrives there, counting can be carried out quickly. Let us not forget that the main mandate of this law is that if MR TSOGWANE: Yes, it is a procedure because when there was no challenges of facilities, really we could be you speak like that you are not on procedure that he is counting ballots at the polling stations. the leader of the opposition parties.

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HONOURABLE MEMBER: Honourable Slumber the electoral process is improved and people can gratify Tsogwane that is wasting our time. themselves where they are? You can just see that they are people who have no reasons to reject this Bill. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Is that a procedure because we need to be... MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mthimkhulu is asking for clarification. MR SPEAKER: Vice President (VP), we … (inaudible)… proceeding on that basis. The Leader of MR HIKUAMA: Okay, I yield. the Opposition informed me how he arrived at the list, and there is no confusion. ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC MR HIKUAMA: Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me rush ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): and move on to the issue that is brought up of security Clarification. Honourable Hikuama, I heard you say a that when ballots are counted at the wards, it will reason that came with Honourable Leuwe that there is a compromise security of the elections. I do not want to clash with the Constitution is not a reason, so I hear you agree with that because when a box is opened there will say that the PC explained to him. Do you not think that be security personnel there, unless they want to tell me the PC can make a mistake like she once did when we that there is no security personnel at the polling stations, were at that hotel? which I do not want to believe it is the case. Security personnel at the elections are there from the beginning of HONOURABLE MEMBER: Which hotel? the elections, as they deliver materials of the elections. The moment we start counting, and people start voting MR MTHIMKHULU: Really what is the name of that at their constituencies, the security personnel is already place? there. There is not a time that security personnel is not HIKUAMA: You are wasting time, my time is being there because ballots are not being counted. That is just used. If there is nothing you can say just say that so that worthless talking. I can continue. The other thing that I want to focus on is the issue that was said by the Honourable Member of Parliament, MR MTHIMKHULU: … (Laughter!)…that hotel we my friend from Takatokwane that it clashes with the were at. Constitution. It is evident that these men and women HONOURABLE MEMBER: You did not prepare no longer have reasons they can use besides saying that yourself, keep quiet. they are disapproving it because it is a Bill from the Opposition. That is why they are looking for reasons MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moagi is also asking for that are not there. When things are explained to them clarification. they just say ‘no we are refusing’, whereas they hear MR HIKUAMA: How much time is left Mr Speaker? that there is nowhere it clashes with the Constitution and that it can even improve the electoral process as there is MR SPEAKER: One minute 20 seconds. an Electoral Act. MR HIKUAMA: Let me finish up Honourable Speaker. The other thing that I wanted to address; if we can count ballots at the polling stations, verification of ballots MR SPEAKER: Okay. will also bring credibility because the people who were MR HIKUAMA: This clarification by Honourable affected will be there, verifying very closely. People Mthimkhulu, you can just see like I have already said will gratify themselves without any problem. These that they are people who have nothing to say. You do not things whereby we go far and allegations that there is need experienced lawyers to explain this law to you, it cheating will be over. is straight-forward, even the way it was read. The way The other thing that I want to talk about is what was the PC explained it is straight-forward. Even a Standard said by Member of Parliament for Mogoditshane. He 4 student can see that there is nowhere it clashes with said they want this Bill to be approved so that we can the Constitution of Botswana, and it will strengthen and continue with our talk that there was cheating. I do not support the Electoral Act to yield credible elections that know how that will continue allegations of cheating if can be trusted by everyone. Issues of running away with

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boxes and travelling to places that are far will be over. Last week one of the Members of Parliament gave Everyone will be satisfied with the electoral process of a lame reason that it means security would have to Botswana elections without any problem. Thank you Mr be augmented. This amendment does not say that, it Speaker. Let me conclude here since time is also up. understands that the amount of security given for the elections of Councillors, is equivalent to the number MR MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): of security that can be there for the counting of ballots. I thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, let me start by There is no need to increase the number of police pointing out that I welcome this amendment as brought officers just because the ballots for the Members of by the Honourable Member of Parliament for Maun Parliament are going to be counted, because the security West, Honourable Saleshando. Let me also point out watching over elections as people vote throughout the that I am surprised that there is a Member of Parliament day, and the security presiding when the counting takes whom, when it is said let us improve the way we run our place, is the security that is needed for counting the elections, and count the ballots at the polling station, so boxes for Councillors and Members of Parliament. So, that if a Motswana out there wishes to know how their this is a very lame reason, wanting us to believe that vote went, they would be able to know then and there. we are now going to need more police officers because It is surprising that the desire for elections to be done even the ballot box for the Member of Parliament would properly is being opposed. One can ask themselves what be counted there. In that manner, those advancing that this costs us, what is wrong with counting the ballots at argument can see that they felt lazy to think. a place where the voting took place? What harm does it Mr Speaker, we need elections that are not suspicious cause? You can see that we are now in a position where because we know that in many countries, the democracy the Honourable Members of Parliament from the ruling is being upheld by elections. Some are suspicious that party are finding all means to rig the elections. If they the elections did not go well, that they were rigged; but do not want to rig elections, there is no person who can in our country, we have to try by all means possible to refuse when it is said let the ballots be counted where avoid making Batswana think elections did not go well. the voting took place, because travelling for a long We should get rid of all those suspicions so that we can distance can yield irregularities on the way. continue to be a shining example of democracy.

Do not think issues only hold water when they are All the time we have to work towards improving the true, there is an English word called ‘perception’, just situation, like right now, one of the things we have to what people are thinking. When people believe ballot consider moving forward, is how our registration would boxes are switched along the way, this can give rise to be done so that it would not be suspicious, because we distress and unsettledness in the minds of the people, know that there are allegations that the rigging starts which might end up causing disruptions after elections. right at the registration stage because those registering Therefore, counting the ballots at the polling station for elections can be bribed so that they can register addresses the perception that there could be rigging. people who are not there. One can come with their That is why I am surprised to hear someone rising to identity documents (Omang) and say, “register this oppose such an arrangement. Some of the reasons that person for me there.” We heard a lot of these rumours are given by the Members of Parliament are shocking; a when we went for the 2019 general elections. whole Member of Parliament saying even at the wards there are sub-wards and a vehicle would have to move When a Member of Parliament comes up with an from a sub-ward to the headquarters of the ward, saying amendment like the one Honourable Saleshando has they believe the distance is the same. You can see that brought, we have to appreciate the fact that they have this is a very lame reason that the one saying it is just brought it because some might come with amendments talking for the sake of talking. Having said that Mr that will address the plight of Batswana, things that they Speaker, this amendment does not collide in any way have long lamented about. We cannot say to ourselves with the Constitution, that is one. So it means those who that politicians do not run elections, therefore there have been hiding behind the issue of the Constitution, cannot be rigging because there is no way Honourable their reason is no longer valid; where they keep saying Kablay gets involved in the counting and administration this Bill is going to clash with the Constitution. This of elections. That is not true. We know that there were Bill amendment is a progressive amendment because in once errors in our elections; there was an error with terms of costs, it is going to reduce them significantly. one of the ballot boxes at Tshiamo polling station, and

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politicians were not involved. A mistake happened is why I want a Motswana back at home to understand at that time. This shows us that mistakes can happen, about…(Interruptions)…I thank you Mr Speaker. regardless of who makes them. All the time we have to see to it that we find ways of minimising the errors. Mr MR BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): Thank you Speaker, that is why I take it that when a Member of Mr Speaker for giving me this opportunity today to also Parliament comes up with an amendment like this…I debate this Bill as presented by Honourable Dumelang will not agree with the people who are saying they are Saleshando. Mr Speaker, this law appears decent. opposing it because it was brought by a Member of HONOURABLE MEMBER: Bill. Parliament from the opposition. What I am deducing from the utterances from the Honourable Members MR BROOKS: Bill, thank you P.P.P. It appears is that maybe moving forward, if they have not been relevant when you look at the breadth of our respective rigging well, they are going to use this opportunity to Constituencies. We should look at it from two come rushing with ballot boxes so that they would be perspectives as the Honourable Members have already able to win elections because it seems Batswana are highlighted the breadth of our constituencies and the losing faith in the leadership of these people. Why would consequences experienced during that time. somebody refuse that the counting of ballots should take place at the polling stations, and it being something that Mr Speaker, although that is the case, we also have to look will be less costly? Members of Parliament are saying at security and that we would be forming a government it is a burden for them that all the time they have to and forming a government should be done in a special hire vehicles to escort the ones from Government which and straightforward way. The Honourable Members are would be transporting the ballot boxes, travelling to the emphasising the point that cheating is there and they are constituency headquarters. Therefore, there is an easier not wrong to think like that Mr Speaker. They are just way through which we could cut costs as the election recovering from thinking that the 2019 general elections candidates, and even the Government can cut the costs, were rigged. When it is like that, you feel the pain and and the risk because the way these vehicles speed in humiliation of believing things that did not happen. So, order to keep time, even some peoples` lives would be you try to hold on to things that are not true, and if we can present them like that, they are going to mislead in jeopardy. There is a simpler way of putting an end to Batswana into thinking that Members of Parliament of these things, that is the one suggested by Honourable the BDP are against this Bill because indeed they rigged Dumelang Saleshando. Therefore, having said that Mr elections. That is not true, we have to set things straight Speaker, I request the Honourable Members to become according to how they should be presented. amenable to accepting good suggestions. Mr Speaker, as I have just said, when we count ballots As the Members of Parliament from the opposition, in different wards, I would be able to notice that I did we always support their Motions, and sometimes even not get satisfying votes at a particular ward. This will propose how well they should be amended so that they promote instances whereby for the five years that I could be beneficial to Batswana. It is surprising that would be a Member of Parliament who is supposed to sometimes we even doubt the guidance from the law serve that whole Constituency, I will have a problem authority based on these things Mr Speaker, I suggest when it comes to servicing that ward because I would we do not use the numbers, but instead let us try to know that they did not vote for me and they will also advance strong reasons as to why we are opposing this make it clear that they did not vote for me. We are amendment because all the reasons given are not those looking at how we distribute developments and how that a Motswana back at home can make sense out of. we relate with people, there is going to be jealousy and I would like to conclude by saying a Motswana back clashes between a Member of Parliament and his or her at home should know that the BDP is refusing that the Constituents or residents of a particular ward as they ballots should be counted at the polling stations. Once would be saying that they did not vote for him or her the elections have taken place, they want the ballots hence he or she is not theirs. When we collect all these to be carried, and the vehicles should be driven in the boxes so that they can be counted at one place, they bush, the ballot boxes being taken somewhere far so would be mixed and one would not know if he or she that they would have an opportunity to tamper with the was not voted by people of Maubelo or he or she was ballot boxes along the way, switching ballot boxes. That voted by constituents of Makati or any other ward, he or

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she would just know whether constituents of Kgalagardi which did not vote for them. Right now the President South voted for him or her or not. knows… he is voted by constituencies, so he knows the constituencies which did not vote for him. Is your Secondly, we have to… statement confirming what was alluded by Honourable HONOURABLE MEMBER: I am asking for a point Molao when he said that as the BDP, you have an of elucidation for the one on the chat, if Honourable arrangement of being stingy with developments when it Brooks agrees. comes to constituencies that did not vote for you?

MR BROOKS: I will yield for you towards the end MR BROOKS: Those are your words Honourable of my debate, when I am left with three minutes. I will Member. Everyone reads statements from other people come back to it because I might just forget what I want according to their own understanding. I am saying this to say. bearing in mind that the aim of this Act is to avoid encounters that might arise from the understanding Mr Speaker, what I am trying to say is that if we do not that constituents at Werda, Hereford or Banyana did learn from what transpired last time, we will make this not vote for me. You heard me when I started off by development only to have many issues where people saying that we could be saying that the Bill that you would think that rigging took place at one ward because are proposing is relevant when we look at the size of when someone adds one plus one, things do not add our respective constituencies. When you look at the up. This means that we are going to have many cases distance from Banyana to Tsabong, it is about 500 km. at the Courts of Law. As Botswana, it does not matter The distance from Struizendam to Tsabong is 520 km. which party would be governing, we are going to end up From Tshanetshane, a cattle post right in the middle of believing that we have to take issues to the Courts of law the Kalahari, it is 220 km, and there are only sand dunes and all these would be fuelled by suspicions. By saying between these areas. That is when you will realise that this Mr Speaker, we should not try and favour ourselves this Bill is appropriate. at this point, we should look at this issue holistically even though there are some issues which are there. I believe that people who drafted the Act were equally looking at the long term, that the five years that you I want to agree with my fellow Honourable Members; would be a Member of Parliament, be it from opposition Honourable Friction and others when they say that the or the ruling party, there should be no hatred and evil Constitution is the mother body of all laws in Botswana. thoughts when it comes to serving the nation. We have As the Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance to know that the pain of not doing justice to people for and Public Administration has already highlighted, five years is quite a long period but doing justice for Constitutional review is coming and it is the one that is them for five years seems like a short period of time. going to guide us. I believe that there are some clauses that we are looking at, clauses which are part and parcel So Mr Speaker, I do not support the Bill which was of the electoral process. We should not amend only one presented by Honourable Saleshando. Therefore Mr part of the law that runs elections and then do copy and Speaker… paste from now on without looking at what the mother MR SPEAKER: Honourable Ramogapi is asking for body is saying. I believe that for us to amend these clarification. things, all these consequences which some of us believe are obstacles according to their thoughts, it is the mother MR BROOKS: I am done. body that we are going to review which is going to guide us when cascade downwards. MR RAMOGAPI: Clarification. In short, you are raising a brilliant point there. Link it with the fact that at Mr Speaker, I do not have many points so maybe I the BDP, the counting process takes place at the polling should yield for the Leader of the opposition and hear station. Does that mean that you can hate people who what he wants to say. did not vote for you at BDP or you know that as a leader you are a unifying factor? Thank you sir. MR SALESHANDO: Elucidation. Thank you Honourable Brooks. I heard you saying that if results MR BROOKS: We are talking about formation can be announced at these wards, after winning elections of the government, not the ambition to contest as a Members of Parliament are going to disadvantage wards Parliamentary candidate. What we are talking about is

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to form a stable government, a government that brings constituency of Maun West is not the village of Maun developments. Thank you Mr Speaker. only, there are other villages under this constituency. That is the only thing I wanted to correct you on. MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Brooks. Honourable Monnakgotla, followed by Boko. MS MONNAKGOTLA: There may be other villages... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Brooks is in trouble. HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are not from Maun, HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Laughter!)… right?

MR SPEAKER: Monnakgotla followed by Honourable MS MONNAKGOTLA: Yes Honourable Member, Boko. you are not from Maun, and the distance is not 600 km.

MS MONNAKGOTLA (KGALAGADI NORTH): HONOURABLE MEMBER: I am a Mongwato. Is Thank you Mr Speaker. Good afternoon Mr Speaker and there any Mongwato from Maun? thank you for giving me this chance to speak. I stand not MS MONNAKGOTLA: Yes Honourable Member, to support the Bill by Honourable Saleshando. I would you are talking about a distance of 100 km, and I am like to say Botswana, is a peaceful country. All over the talking about a distance of 600 km. From Inalegolo to world people know that Botswana is a peaceful country. Ukhwi it is 600 km, so he is talking about 100 km. The Let me start by thanking the Independent Electoral Honourable Member who came with the Bill considered Commission (IEC) that every time, every five years, his constituency only and he did not consider other they have been conducting peaceful elections that have constituencies. I would like to move on and say, when it no wars. Let me thank them for that. Let them continue comes to cheating, I do not think there is any cheating. with their hard work. After the ballots are counted, the boxes are sealed, and When elections are about to start, before the boxes are they reach their destination still sealed. They are then used, our witnesses whom we have elected show us that transported under escort to the polling station. There they are sealed and have nothing in them. Then that is is nowhere I see cheating. Yes it is painful not to win when the elections can begin. It indicates that they are elections because we realise that they are costly. It is a effectively doing their job. Let me take Kgalagadi North; painful thing because one would have used money. If he from Inalegolo to Ukhwi is 600 km apart. I cannot agree had talked about psychological therapy during elections, with this Bill. I cannot go to Inalegolo and Ukhwi to I would understand him. There is need for an intensive see election ballots being counted, how will I get there? psychological therapy because election candidates use a Maybe if I had a plane it could be possible. There are lot of money. Those are some of the things we can put 19 villages in Kgalagadi North, and even if I had a before this House. plane, I could not go there to watch them. It is important that when the Parliamentary ballots are counted I am The other thing is that I heard Honourable Members watching them, because they are the ones who make up compare us to South Africa, no, the Parliamentary the Government. That is why I do not support this Bill, elections and Councillors’ elections take place at maybe at Maun it is okay. The Honourable Member different times. In Botswana Parliamentary elections that put this Bill before us just focused on Maun only and Councilors’ elections are held at the same time, and he does not have long distances to travel like us. those are two different things. We cannot compare an It is important as I was watching my elections and apple with a pear. So we always have to be careful when boxes from Ukhwi, Zutshwa, Hunhukwe, Inalegolo and we compare. Phuduhudu in one place. Then the candidate that I was competing with and I watched them being counted and Then there is an issue of Constitutional review; in the morning we got the results. They started counting according to what Honourable Minister Morwaeng said, them at night, then the next morning at nine o’clock we I believe that it is near. Let us wait for it and see what it got the results of who won the elections. There were has in store for us. We should not review things one by never any issues. That is why I am saying I do not one. Let us wait for that review, then we can single out support this Bill. If... what we feel would not have been revised and we can MR KEORAPETSE: Point of correction. No bring them to this House, instead of piecemeal reviews. Honourable Monnakgotla, let me correct you that the I did not want to speak at length. I want...

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MR HIKUAMA: Point of clarification. Thank you MR SPEAKER: Honourable Boko. Honourable Member. You are saying the right thing that we should wait for the Constitutional review and maybe MR BOKO (MAHALAPYE EAST): Thank you Mr it will include clauses that can allow this to happen. Speaker. Let me take this time to greet you and thank What I want to understand is that, when it comes to the you for giving me this opportunity to debate Mr Speaker. Constitution, if people can say they want this, is that Mr Speaker, let me preface my debate by saying ever when you will agree with it? since I was born, I have never come across a lack of ideas and reasoning as portrayed by the members of the MS MONNAKGOTLA: That is why I am saying, BDP. I have interacted with people of various frames of when all the reviews are here that is when we can say minds, some of which were not able to even write their this has been reviewed, and that has not been reviewed. names, they are some of my friends. What I am seeing It will depend on which reasons I will consider first. today Mr Speaker is very discouraging that in this day That is why I am telling you that Honourable Member, and age, there can be a Member of Parliament who says, I cannot agree with my ballots being counted when I am not there when I am an electoral candidate. I cannot “I do not agree with this amendment because when agree with Parliamentary ballots being counted at Ukhwi the counting is done, I want to be there.” That being when I am at Hukuntsi, or they are counted at Inalegolo the reason they are hanging on to. A whole Member of when I am at Hukuntsi, when I am at Lokgwabe or at... Parliament, Mr Speaker! This is so discouraging even to those who wish to contest for elections as Members of MR SPEAKER: Honourable Saleshando is asking for Parliament in the future; it tells them that this is what we clarification. have as a country.

MR SALESHANDO: Point of clarification. Mr MR MOATLHODI: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker, let me ask Honourable Monnakgotla that Speaker. I thank you Mr Speaker. Standing Order 57.5 does she understand that the Constitution does not say is extraordinarily being offended by Honourable Boko. anything about the counting of ballots? This law of the He is imputing improper motives on other Members of Constitutional review, does not include the counting of Parliament, and I pray for your intervention Mr Speaker, ballots, it is an Electoral Act. Does she understand that? precisely for your admonition on Honourable Boko. If at least she was saying we should wait for the review of the Electoral Act, not the Constitution. MR BOKO: Let me proceed, Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Boko, hang on. Your MS MONNAKGOTLA: That is why I am saying we clock has been frozen. Honourable Moatlhodi says, will address them in future. I do not want to get into when you talk about a lack of ideas… details. I was telling you Honourable Saleshando that I do not agree with this Bill. I do not agree with the MR BOKO: Deficiency, yes. Parliamentary ballots being counted when I am not there. I believe that... MR SPEAKER: …or the deficiency, you somehow…

MR MATHOOTHE: Point of clarification. Let me ask MR BOKO: It is not offending; you cannot have a Honourable Monnakgotla that in the primary elections Member of Parliament reasoning like this. of the BDP, since the ballots were counted in those MR SPEAKER: You are being ambivalent because I places, who was representing her? What did she do? am not sure what I would have used as a word where I MS MONNAKGOTLA: Honourable Mathoothe, thought the reasons given; because it appears to me it you cannot compare primary elections to the general was deliberate. What word would I have used? elections. In the primary elections, one would just be MR MOATLHODI: In all fairness Mr Speaker, expressing a wish, now here we are talking about… Honourable Boko is imputing improper motives on MR SPEAKER: Your time is up Honourable Member. other Members of Parliament. I can even read it.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: I thank you Mr Speaker, and HONOURABLE MEMBER: What motive is he I do not support this amendment… imputing?

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MR MOATLHODI: He is insulting other peoples` someone who is very sensitive, if you say a little word intelligence. Here we are not talking about the minds to him, the whole House will reverberate. of other people. We are talking about a Bill amendment, and I pray for your intervention. There in nowhere, HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions)… where it says we should analyse other peoples` thinking. MR TSOGWANE: Last time Honourable Mthimkhulu MR BOKO: If your reasoning is wanting in many said something to him and that statement ended up respects, we should say this out. I am saying the being withdrawn, yet what was said to him was not reasoning is wanting, not befitting for a Member of much. Therefore Mr Speaker, let us have rulings for Parliament. That is what I am saying. I am not insulting. people who do not want to be addressed in a certain way, yet that is how they want to address other people. MR SPEAKER: Put it in another way Honourable In the future, this thing is going to be said to Honourable Moatlhodi. What Honourable Boko is saying is that the Boko, and he is going to be very furious, as we know his reasons being given are totally unconvincing, and he temperament. So he should stop provoking other people. feels that it is a deficiency. He does not consider them He should just say his way of thinking is not right, rather as reasons. As I am asking, Honourable Moatlhodi, I than saying he is wondering that at this point in time there is a Member of Parliament who can think that way. know you know Setswana, if I were you when it comes That is demeaning. There is no doubt about it. So I just to translating Setswana... wanted to say, that is Honourable Boko for you, you are HONOURABLE MEMBER: He has been quiet when with him, whilst you are still the Speaker, you will be others were called prefects. fed up with him in these five years.

MR SPEAKER: Where are you coming from, Ghanzi MR SPEAKER: Honourable Leader of the House, if South? I think what I can say Honourable Boko is tread you have not heard me say; I asked Honourable Boko to cautiously in your position to what other Members have tread carefully. I did that indirectly because I remember said as reasons for not supporting because I am sure they his exchange with his colleague; both lawyers, are being genuine. By giving out their reasons, they will Honourable Mthimkhulu, and I know for politicians, assume that there is a way we disagree, and I am sure if they seem to have very thin skins. There is a saying that you are entitled to disagree, but there are other reasons. if you live in a glass house, you do not throw stones. Honourable Boko. Honourable Boko, we want to finish this Bill.

MR BOKO: Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me continue MR BOKO: Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me explain by saying we should remember that we are representing that I have a very thick skin. the nation; people are watching us. Sometimes when one does not have reasons, it is better to be silent Mr Speaker, others who debated, they hinged their because people are watching us Mr Speaker. There are argument on the Constitution of the Republic of people who aspire to be where we are, but sometimes Botswana… when you advance reasons that even when they listen to HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker! them, they also… MR SPEAKER: Mute! HONOURABLE MEMBER: Let me request to chip in with a point of procedure there. MR BOKO: …particularly Section 65 which reads, “there be shall an Independent Electoral Commission MR BOKO: Let me proceed. Mr Speaker, I rise here (IEC)” which talked about the independence of the IEC. to… It was Honourable Mthimkhulu. Today Mr Speaker, MR SPEAKER: Hang on, Honourable Boko, the others are hanging on to Section 32 (3) (c) which has Leader of the House has asked for a point of procedure. nothing to do with counting of ballots at the polling station. The Constitution has got nothing to do with what MR TSOGWANE: Point of procedure, thank you Mr Honourable Saleshando has presented before us. The Speaker. You might have clarified or seem to have ruled, IEC Act on its own can be amended and be done in such but definitely Honourable Moatlhodi has a point. What a way that it does not collide with the Constitution of the I am requesting Mr Speaker is that Honourable Boko is Republic of Botswana. That can be done. Therefore, the

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argument which was advanced by those who hung on to my constituents at Mookane and Mmaphashalala are the Constitution is a very flawed argument, and it has to saying that they have never seen this and they still fail be dismissed outright Mr Speaker. to understand why ballot papers have to be transported over night to another area. Now what are we left with? We are left with the Act itself Mr Speaker and we are saying, what could go Mr Speaker, the issue of resources; we do not have wrong if counting of ballot papers can be done at the resources. When we went for the 2019 General Elections polling stations? Mr Speaker, no BDP Member gave which were my first elections, I explained that I used a lot a reason that explains whether the heavens will fall if of funds to fuel vehicles which escorted the vehicle that ballot papers can be counted at the polling stations. Mr was transporting ballot boxes. There was a perception Speaker, there is nothing hindering us from counting that if it is not escorted, something mischievous was ballot papers at the polling stations. We are trying going to happen Mr Speaker. Honourable Monnakgotla to clarify the procedure Mr Speaker, and we are also and others know this and since they already have trying to avoid issues similar to the Tshiamo ballot box resources, buses can escort those vehicles. So we do issue which they always talk about as well as the case not have those resources Mr Speaker. I am speaking whereby vehicles collided while carrying ballot boxes in favour of Members of Parliament who do not have at Honourable Lesaso’s constituency. Over and above resources. I have only one car while they have many that, we are dealing with perception and perception is vehicles which they can deploy across the constituency very important. We need to deal with the perception and escort vehicles which are carrying ballot boxes. that Batswana in Mahalapye East, Mookane, Shoshong, We are pleading that you should feel sorry for some Kalamare and Kaudwane suspect that sometimes when of us who do not have resources, the less privileged vehicles move around at a greater speed while carrying people. Honourable Monnakgotla, feel for us because ballot boxes, something unpleasant is being done. Now we do not have money to go around escorting vehicles that we are dealing with that perception, we should which are transporting ballot boxes. I believe that you eliminate it by ensuring that the counting process is will withdraw the statement in which you said that your carried out at the polling stations Mr Speaker. This issue ballot papers cannot be counted in your absence. is easy like that. Mr Speaker, although I am trying to Some Members of Parliament here were sleeping when blind my eyes and calm my thoughts down, I fail to see the ballot papers were counted. I know that Honourable anything that is stopping us from counting ballot papers Healy was asleep when ballot papers of his Constituency at the polling stations. Even if you can tell a Standard 1 were counted, they woke him up at his home to tell him or Standard 2 pupil about this, he or she will be shocked that he has won and he was even shocked to hear that to hear that there were some MPs who rejected the idea he has won. They are there. It was not even a big deal of counting ballot papers at the polling stations. You can for Honourable Healy to fall asleep when ballot papers imagine! were counted. Let us pay attention to things like that Mr Speaker. MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Mthimkhulu is asking for clarification, and there is also Honourable HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure Mr Ramogapi. Chairperson.

MR BOKO: Who? Honourable Ramogapi let me MR BOKO: The person who I was competing with was proceed, I will yield. not even there, he was sleeping. There is no problem Mr Speaker. Honourable Kablay, I fail to understand why This is what I wanted to present Mr Speaker that BDP you are rejecting a straightforward idea like this one, an members know what they are hiding. They know that idea that is making things easy for you. You have placed there is a loophole that we are trying to seal, which the Constitution of Botswana aside because it has got they want to take advantage of during the next general nothing to do with this... elections. I have just received a message on my cellphone, Batswana are shocked and they are asking ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL if there are still some MPs who think like BDP MPs AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC are reasoning. They are saying if that is the case, we ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): should consult them again and hear their opinions since Procedure. Honourable Boko, do you have evidence they long gave us that recommendation. Mr Speaker, that Honourable Healy was asleep? Were you there

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when ballot papers of Honourable Healy’s Constituency I support it because we all know its drive, there are so were counted? many reasons which were laid before us and we even know some of them. Firstly Mr Speaker, the aim is to MR BOKO: That is not a point of procedure. Let me improve and speed processes. When one is a farmer who proceed Mr Speaker, that is the problem that we have now. This one is from Office of the President, you can harvests produce every year, you have to wish to have imagine. Mr Speaker, the other reason that is stated is a greater harvest and you can only have it if you try to in relation to security. You will notice that BDP MPs make things easier by doing improvements. Counting degrade Councilor’s ballots because they are saying that ballots at polling stations; number one, reduces the long there is going to be a need to beef up security because distance. Number two; it reduces the time that we take this is the government, Parliamentarians. We also need collecting them to one place. Number three; it reduces these Councillors. If you reduce security for Councillors resources and people who count ballots in order to and bring two security officers, and then you beef up reduce costs that are incurred when collecting ballots. I security for Members of Parliament, you are basically can hear that Honourable Members on the other side of indicating that you degrade them. The security that is the aisle who are in the dark, I thought that darkness is there during the counting of Councillors ballot boxes fading away but now Members of Parliament are rising is maintained even during the counting of ballots for to say that results are transported in vehicles. According Members of Parliament. Nothing can go wrong, the to how I understand Honourable Leuwe, he is saying that it will be difficult for results to be transported in heavens will not fall Mr Speaker. If there is any Member vehicles because along the way, the winner... I do not of Parliament in the BDP who will not support this Bill, understand, hence I believe that we are completely I will believe that indeed there is a problem on the other lost. Honourable Members should make progressive side of the aisle. statements. They talked about security Mr Speaker, it HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. has always been there hence nothing is changing. If there is security at the polling stations, what kind of security MR BOKO: Lack of reasoning Mr Speaker. That is are we in search of during the counting of ballots since why someone is saying that she cannot allow ballot it was already there? Mr Speaker, no one is saying that papers of her constituency to be counted in her absence. cheating takes place when counting ballots and no one What can go wrong and what is it going to change? is indicating that rigging takes places when ballot boxes Honourable Members, what I mean is that sometimes are taken to one place. When rigging is there, it takes when we reason, we should bear in mind that people place at any time and place. Rigging can take place who look up to us are watching us and they… during the process of transporting ballots from point A (Inaudible)… on our fellow colleagues Mr Speaker. to point B before they are counted and cheating can take You should sometimes elevate your reasoning or ask for place during counting of ballots. Therefore, our main assistance so that they can assist you to reason better issue is not rigging of elections. Yes, there are rigging than how you are reasoning. Mr Speaker, ever since I perceptions, there is a belief that cheating is there and was born, not even once in my life have I come across we also have to combat it. Batswana should believe reasoning similar to the one that has been laid before us. that everything is straightforward. Our main issue But anyway, Batswana are watching and they can see which the ruling party has to take into consideration is that they made a mistake. If this was a curse, they will that costs which are incurred when transporting ballots see that they have to hold prayers and do everything so from polling stations…I hear that sometimes in Central that when we reach 2024, we would not find ourselves Kalahari constituencies they are transported in flying in the same situation that we are in now Mr Speaker. Mr machines. Which Opposition candidate owns a flying Speaker, I thank you for how you directed your things machine which can escort a helicopter from Central today, continue leading accordingly. With those words, Kalahari up to Gantsi, there is no one. If they were I thank you. to be counted at Central Kalahari because electoral candidates are there and can see what is happening, we HONOURABLE MEMBER: You will do it at believe that there can be no doubts that anything might Makwate. have happened along the way. That is what indicates MR NKAWANA (SELEBI PHIKWE EAST): Thank that if we are not careful and we also just speak, and you Mr Speaker. Let me point out that I support the maybe we believe that we are doing this because we lost Bill which was presented by Honourable Saleshando. elections, that is not true. The issue is that, we should

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assist this Government that we run together with ideas voted for the BDP. I do not believe that… as I heard of how the process can be hastened. When election some Honourable Member saying that it means that he ballots are counted at polling stations, it will be quick to should stop advocating for those Batswana. So what was get electoral results, and it also becomes easier because said by some Honourable Member who is from Tsabong, the people who were conducting the elections will still that these ballots should all be counted at one place so be there. Why do we believe that we can be cheated at that you cannot realise who did not vote for you. This polling stations whereas there are people we appointed is a verification that at the moment President Masisi as representatives who monitored the elections when and his Government are not providing developments voters were voting? for our constituencies because we did not vote for their Government, and that was said by Honourable Mr Speaker, I support this Bill because I believe that Brooks. That will be unfortunate if that is how those what we are saying is an improvement from better to in power think, and it is not only the thoughts but they good. We come a long way trying to improve, and even are even doing that too, because now we have to go to today we should improve so that our elections may Batswana and let them know how those in power think. improve. We should modernise our elections and also They should not live in fear, they should change the purify them, in order to take them out of the dirt that Government because if the likes of Honourable Balopi most of us believe that they are a mess. If those in power are still in power, this is how it is going to be, as you believe that they do not cheat, let them indicate that can see that they are refusing to bring developments to because they can do that by agreeing with a Motion that us. It is going to be like how their colleagues are saying encourages transparency. We do not want a situation that, if they did not vote for a certain constituency that whereby when I am far, the ballot boxes are rushed there means the people of that constituency are not going to by a BX or Government vehicle, which is quicker than get developments. my old vehicle, and they will reach that place without Mr Speaker, I am not going to speak at length, but I me knowing where they stopped along the way. Even wanted to address these brief issues, that we wish that these cars we are told they can be changed along the ballots should be counted where they was cast to reduce way, and you might follow a different car when the one the time, expenses and everything that is involved in that has your box has gone somewhere else. elections, so that everything… and even the results Batswana should know that what worked for us should be provided in a short time. yesterday does not mean that it will work for us in 2022. MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Mmolotsi is asking Let us look at the developed countries, during the times for elucidation. of Yuri Gagarin and when American countries went to the moon, they are no longer using the rockets that they MR MMOLOTSI: On a point of elucidation. Thank used in the past. It worked yes, at the time they were you very much Mr Speaker. I am saying Honourable using those kind of rockets and spaceships to travel to Nkawana should elucidate the issue that they are saying the moon but every day they seek for improvement. the timing of the Bill is wrong because some people Every single day they want to make better ones which went to court because they had doubts. I am scared that, make things easier, and also protect the economy so that how is what is being said related to this Bill because the expenses of travelling to the moon, mars or space are after this law has been approved, this case will not go reduced. They are always looking for something better back to court? So the Members of Parliament who are and cheap so that they can be able to achieve what they using it as a reason, what are they saying is helpful want to do. about it and how is it helpful to disapprove this Bill? I do not know if Honourable Nkawana thinks those are Mr Speaker, I have the confidence and belief that if we the appropriate reasons on a Thursday when the public can implement what we have put before Parliament or is attentively listening and you have also stood up... what Honourable Saleshando has put before Parliament, MR CHAIRPERSON: Fifteen seconds left. if those in power can see the importance and agree with what we are saying, Batswana at home will perceive MR NKAWANA: Let me conclude Honourable them as serious people. Where I am from at Selebi Member, they are protesting. That is why they came Phikwe, Batswana agree with this Bill. Where I am from up with the law of floor crossing, which was a protest at Selebi Phikwe there are some wards which voted for instead of them waiting for a constitutional review. We me in significant numbers, and there are Batswana who see all those things from them. I thank you Mr Speaker.

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MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT, LABOUR Budget of 2019/2020 financial year. The facilities PRODUCTIVITY AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT which were maintained by then are 1 X 2 classroom (MR BALOPI): Thank you Mr Chairperson. Let blocks and the school library. Mr Speaker, in me take this opportunity to greet you and recognise addition, 48 school toilets were maintained during Honourable Members. Mr Speaker, I realise that time is the current financial year of 2021 as part of the already up and I want to begin by saying all the reasons COVID-19 pandemic response. that were raised by Honourable Members, especially those from the Opposition, are those that want us to (ii) Mr Speaker, I am aware that the school has no explain because as it is, when they talk about speed, modern Physical Education facilities and the credibility and the human factor that brings about Council is unable to provide the same due to uncertainties in elections, they have already started financial constraints. However, the school is advocating for the Electronic Voting Machine (EVM). among the prioritised schools to undergo cyclic All these are reasons which were advanced at the time maintenance during the 2021 financial year, when it was talked about the EVM. I want to rush and including the Resource Centre housing the visually say, citing the BDP primary elections as an example in impaired students. Mr Speaker, I thank you. this Bill by Honourable Saleshando is an inappropriate MR MOSWAANE:. I thank you Mr Speaker... excuse. I do not agree with it because it does not have reasons. You will realise that our primary elections is to …Silence… try to extend the democracy to vote for Parliament and Council candidates. MR SPEAKER: Unmute yourself Honourable Moswaane. MR CHAIRPERSON: Order! Order! Honourable Order! I am sorry Honourable Minister, we have to …Silence… adjourn and try to be back at 2 o’clock after lunch. MR MOSWAANE: Yes, I said I am happy with the PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 1:06 PM FOR answer Mr Speaker. APPROXIMATELY 1 HOUR PROCEEDINGS MR SPEAKER: Okay. RESUMED AT 2:04 PM STAFF HOUSES IN GHANZI QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER MR J. L. THIITE (GHANZI NORTH): asked the MAINTENANCE OF PHATLOGO PRIMARY Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs SCHOOL if she is aware that staff houses in Ghanzi are dilapidated MR M. I. MOSWAANE (FRANCISTOWN WEST): such that ceilings have fallen off and occupants exposed asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural to health risks; if so: Development: (i) will she consider addressing this situation as a (i) when last Phatlogo Primary School was matter of urgency; and maintained; and (ii) what are the possible timelines to dealing with (ii) if he is aware that the school has no Physical these maintenance problems. Education facilities; and that the Resource Centre MINISTER OF NATIONALITY, IMMIGRATION housing visually impaired students is in dire need AND GENDER AFFAIRS (MS MOKGETHI): of maintenance. Thank you Mr Speaker and thank you Honourable ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL Thiite, Member of Parliament (MP) for Ghanzi North. GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT The ministry is aware of the dilapidated condition for (MR MODUKANELE): Thank you Mr Speaker. Let some of its facilities around the country including staff me greet you and also greet Honourable Moswaane. houses in Ghanzi. (i) Mr Speaker, my ministry through Francistown (i) It is in view of this that the ministry has put in City Council carried out corrective maintenance place an annual maintenance plan to cover certain of Phatlogo Primary school using the Recurrent areas depending on the severity of the condition.

20 Hansard No 201 Thursday 4th March, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

In this regard, maintenance of the staff housing in PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION Ghanzi is included in this plan. MR K. NKAWANA (SELEBI PHIKWE EAST): (ii) Mr Speaker, 10 staff Houses in Ghanzi are targeted asked the Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance for maintenance and have been duly catered for and Public Administration to update this Honourable during the financial year 2021/2022. Targeted to be House on: conducted by September 2021. The maintenance project is estimated at a budget of P900, 000. I (i) the status of the Public Service Commission; thank you Mr Speaker. (ii) its current membership;

MR THIITE: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. (iii) how many cases it has adjudicated in its current Honourable Member, I can hear that you have the term; and intention to maintain these 10 staff houses under your ministry. Despite having answered in line with the ones (iv) when the Commission had its last meeting. you were focusing on, the Gender Affairs offices are Later Date. also not in a good state. Public toilet facilities at your offices in Ghanzi are not working. This means those LIMID who visit your offices cannot help themselves. I thank you Honourable Minister if you intend to do something, MR O. REGOENG (MOLEPOLOLE NORTH): but you should also pay close attention to them and asked the Minister of Agricultural Development and attend to them as well. Food Security to state:

MS MOKGETHI: Thank you Mr Speaker. The (i) how many people benefitted from the Livestock ministry has a major maintenance budget of P5 million Management Infrastructure Development which is centred at the ministry headquarters and minor (LIMID) in Molepolole in the last five years (2015 maintenance budget for P484 000. This is a provision through to 2019) and for how much, giving a for use of handymen around the country by respective breakdown on yearly basis; and ministry departments for works such as replacing (ii) if he is satisfied with the level of the programme broken window panes, damaged doors, damaged locks uptake countrywide. and leaking taps among other things. Unfortunately, the Office of the Gender Affairs, the one that you are ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL talking about is not part of the maintenance work which DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MS is included in this. Thank you Mr Speaker. MANAKE): I greet you Mr Speaker. I have been having challenges with technology this side. Let me state that, I SENIOR SUB-TRIBAL AUTHORITY IN will go back to Question 2. TUTUME (i) Mr Speaker, the number of people who have DR N. TSHABANG (NKANGE): asked the Minister benefitted from Livestock Management of Local Government and Rural Development to update Infrastructure Development (LIMID) in this Honourable House on: Molepolole in 2015/2016 to 2019/2020 are 759. (i) when the appointment of the Senior Sub-Tribal Out of that number, 504 were given small stock, Authority in Tutume will be done; 160 got chickens, and 95 were assisted on animal husbandry and fodder support. It is a machine (ii) contract renewals for Magapatona and Mabuwe which grinds and threshes. These projects Mr Headmen of Arbitration and Nkange Village Speaker cost about P8, 300, 746. Headman of Records; and (ii) Mr Speaker, as for the question on which I am asked (iii) the appointments of Goshwe and Changate villages if I am satisfied with the level of the programme Headmen of Records and the Thini Headman of uptake countrywide; we have pointed out that Arbitration. from the years that I listed, from 2015 to 2020, 26 449 people benefited from LIMID countrywide. Later Date. This includes 23 178 people who benefited from

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small stock package, 1 990 for Tswana chickens, according to their needs. We have already done that in a 999 for animal husbandry and fodder production couple of constituencies. Thank you Mr Speaker. while 282 benefited for water development MR REGOENG: Supplementary. Minister you are projects. Water developments projects include basically talking about funds amounting to P8.3 million borehole drilling, connecting boreholes and water which were released, out of these programmes, as you reticulation. just mentioned that you assisted people with small stock Mr Speaker, according to how things are, we cannot and chickens amongst others, are they still continuing or say that we are impressively satisfied because LIMID, those projects have vanished into thin air? as the name speaks, 93 per cent of its funds go to MS MANAKE: Mr Speaker, I explained that in resource-poor, and it seems like resource-poor has 2019/2020, 105 people were assisted in Molepolole, and drawn us back when it comes to livestock developments all the funds which were utilised from 2015 up to 2020, such as assisting people with drilling boreholes, water amounts to P6 048 000.00 and people were assisted connection and water reticulation to the kraals. Let me with small stock. Last year 28 people were assisted with point out that because the bulk of this is on resource- Tswana chickens in Molepolole. When we move on to poor which is also found at the Ministry for Presidential water, boreholes and reticulation, there are no people Affairs, Governance and Public Administration, I who were assisted with this service in Molepolole. It believe that social protection consolidation will assist appears that all the funds amount to P8.3 million as us so that as Ministry of Agricultural Development and Honourable Regoeng alluded, for Molepolole only, not food Security, we would be able to assist people with for the whole of Botswana. what they need as I have already talked about boreholes and so forth. Thank you Mr Speaker. There are many challenges surrounding this programme Honourable Regoeng, challenges which we are trying MR REGOENG: Supplementary. Thank you Minister to solve. We have a backlog pertaining to funds which for your answer. As time goes by or over the years, has are still lagging behind and they amount to over 300 and there been any arrangement put in place to ensure that the something million, but 97 per cent of those funds go programme was reviewed in order to see if it is pursuing to resource-poor. That is why we are saying, we have its mandate? Do you wish to continue implementing this to revise this programme to see what it was aiming to programme or you have other plans? achieve so that we do not end up duplicating programmes MS MANAKE: As I have already explained Honourable which are provided by Poverty Eradication Programme. Regoeng, there are social protection consolidations and Maybe we should add up these funds so that we can the other question could be, what was the purpose of assist people and focus. Thank you Mr Speaker. establishing this programme? It shows that its purpose MR MOSWAANE: Supplementary. Minister, may was infrastructural development. Where we are now and you please give a clear explanation about this LIMID how we see things, this programme is not pursuing its programme. It seems like there has been a failure for mandate according to how the government anticipated many years in which the programme did not assist and it was indicated in the State of the Nation Address people according to its mandate. I am mostly concerned (SONA) and Budget Speech that these programmes are about the fact that the explanation that we always get going to be revised so that they can go back to their from your ministry always seems like you have just mandates and be able to assist Batswana accordingly. started revising the programme. Minister, what has the I have already mentioned that resource-poor is also Accounting Officers who have been working there all available at the Poverty Eradication programme which is these years been doing Minister since you just recently under the Ministry for Presidential Affairs, Governance got there after elections?…(Interruptions)… they have and Public Administration hence you can clearly see been in the public service for 50 years, public servants. that we are duplicating efforts. Right now people are Thank you. complaining about water issues and boreholes, and this programme should be assisting people on these issues. MS MANAKE: Thank you Mr Speaker. I agree with Yes, it does assist people as I have already explained you Honourable Moswaane, that this is the question that 282 people we assisted with boreholes and we also that we should be asking ourselves and we should look at farms to see that we connect and drill boreholes confirm it. We asked our Accounting Officers, for for farmers who formed clusters and reticulate water Ministry of Agricultural Development and Food

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Security to go and meet with accounting officers at the MR GREEFF: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. Ministry of Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Honourable Minister, I hear you saying that BAMB has Administration and the Ministry of Local Government some board members and some positions are vacant, and Rural Development because as we speak, our so maybe you should tell us the total number of Board backlog is 300 million, but in that amount, funds for Members who make up this BAMB Board. How many boreholes which are our responsibility are still little. Let board members are there and how many vacant positions us handle these issues together and stop double-dipping are there? You should also give us timelines as to when and duplication of efforts. I agree with you, the other you intend to have a complete board. I thank you. ministry is releasing funds on the other side to provide services that we are providing which means that a MS MANAKE: Mr Speaker, the appointment of person can get assistance from Ministry of Agricultural boards is like this; BAMB board should have eight Development and Food Security and also get assistance board members. So as it has eight board members, from the other ministry. Will government manage if we there is a criteria that is used to appoint them. We continue to do that? So social protection consolidation stagger them because we do not want instances whereby which is chaired by Honourable …(Inaudible)… we their contracts will come to an end at the same time. hope that it will assist us so that we can push these things There should be some members who remain behind, forward, so that Batswana can be assisted accordingly. institutional memory, they remain behind to continue to Thank you Mr Speaker. induct others and so on. So what happened at the moment is that, the three who APPOINTMENT OF BAMB BOARD were elected in 2018, their membership is expiring at the MR S. N. MOABI (TATI WEST): asked the Minister same time, and they are the ones we are on the process of Agricultural Development and Food Security when he to remove. I hope that in two weeks we will have a intends to appoint the Board for Botswana Agricultural complete board of BAMB. Thank you Mr Speaker. Marketing Board (BAMB). MR MAJAGA: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL and good afternoon. Thank you Minister. Maybe one DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MS may ask the Minister that, when a Member of Parliament MANAKE): Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable brings a question like this to Parliament, it seems like Moabi’s question was inquiring when the Ministry of there is problem and maybe it took long. Let me ask Agricultural Development and Food Security intends that, was this not evident as you were staggering them? to appoint the Board for BAMB. Let me point out that That was a good thing, and we are in tough times where BAMB has a board even though there are still vacant everything about the boards is supposed to be up and positions. We are dealing with this issue in order to fill running, especially during these times of COVID-19. the vacant positions. We are promoting these positions Thank you. to you Honourable Members and Batswana at large who are listening, who have qualifications or skills which MS MANAKE: Mr Speaker, let me indicate that it was can assist us. There is Public Enterprises Evaluation evident but these people, their membership expired on and Privatisation Agency (PEEPA) where applications the 28th of the second month of 2021, on a Sunday. We are made. You can take your Curriculum Vitae (CV) have indicated that we are rectifying the situation, and there demonstrating that we can appoint you to these we will do what is supposed to be done. I hope that in kind of boards because they are the ones who give us two weeks, I do not want to make it one week because people who we can appoint in these boards. That is why there are clauses that are considered for one to have a sometimes vacant positions take a long time without quality board that is also able to assist Government to being filled. So I encourage people to do that. run an institution like BAMB. Thank you Mr Speaker.

We will also advertise these positions at our ministry so MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Supplementary. that those who have competencies to help us can start Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable Minister, there are to apply because we know that Batswana have many rumours that are all over the newspapers that the Chief talents but they do not have that platform. We should be Executive Officer (CEO) of BAMB, was pushed out due able to appoint them and strengthen the oversight of the to the conflict between him and his board at BAMB. I boards. Thank you Mr Speaker. want you to clarify this issue for us that has he been

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pushed out because of the conflict within the board or We are also available Honourable Motsamai, and what the issue is? we are trying to set up a platform where we can find quality candidates. I mean that you can knock at the MR SPEAKER: There are the rumours Minister. office if you hope that someone at Ghanzi South who HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… has a Curriculum Vitae (CV), can assist us somewhere. If there is a vacancy and we see that he or she is the MS MANAKE: Like you have already said Honourable appropriate candidate, we can be able to hire them, but Healy, they are just rumours, and that is not true PEEPA is the one that is legally responsible, it is the Honourable Member. Everyone like I was saying, when one that selects candidates for us and they know who is they get into a board or move to a new job, like us, we going where based on the interests they have provided. know when our term is coming to an end. The way we Thank you Mr Speaker. know it or what happened is that the CEO`s contract has come to an end. I do not think there was any conflict in MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister. the board. Thank you Mr Speaker. Order! Order! Honourable Members, I understand that the Minister of Basic Education has a statement to make. MR SALESHANDO: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. I am requesting the Minister to explain, do I STATEMENT understand her clearly that the members who are not 2020 BGCSE RESULTS available, is the three of them whom their terms ended recently? Besides that, the BAMB board has been MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR comprising of eight members as per its composition? Is MOLAO): Thank you Mr Speaker, am I audible? that what she is informing Parliament? MR SPEAKER: Very much so. MS MANAKE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Yes, that is true MR MOLAO: Thank you Mr Speaker. May I take Mr Speaker. I do not know if Honourable Saleshando this moment to appreciate the opportunity presented knows otherwise. According to the document that I to me to address Parliament on the 2020 Botswana have here in front of me, people who their membership General Certificate of Secondary Education (BGCSE) expired on the 28th are three, who are supposed to be examinations results released on the 2nd March 2021. reviewed if they can be brought back according to the procedures that are there Mr Speaker. That is what I am A total of 36 557 candidates wrote the 2020 examination saying. compared to the 2019 candidature of 36 508. Mr Speaker, the 2020 cohort comprised of candidates from public MR MOTSAMAI: Supplementary. Mr Speaker, may schools, private schools, Botswana Open University I ask the Minister with due respect, how do you elect and individuals who registered directly with Botswana these boards like BAMB, Botswana Meat Commission Examinations Council (BEC). (BMC) and others from different ministries, so that Batswana at rural areas, especially remote areas like The grades available at this level are on a scale of A* to Ghanzi South, who are skilled and have worked for the G, where A* represents the highest level of performance, Government in the past, can be able to try their luck in and G the lowest level of performance. Candidates applying for membership? Thank you. failing to reach the minimum requirement of Grade G are ungraded and assigned a letter U, and those failing MS MANAKE: Like I have already explained Mr to satisfy the requirements for grading in a syllabus are Speaker, there is a Government institution called assigned letter X. PEEPA. PEEPA is the one that runs an expression of interest advertisement for people who want to be part Since the BGCSE is a syllabus-based qualification of different boards. Maybe some people are not getting with no aggregation, the measure used to gauge the this message, but we will encourage them to advertise performance of candidates at system level is the a lot on radios so that people can apply at PEEPA, to proportion of candidates who are awarded Grade G or indicate which institution their interests are at, what better, Grade E or better and Grade C or better in the best they have or what skills do they possess that can assist six syllabuses. Candidates had available to them a total the Government. That is the one I am talking about that of 27 BGCSE syllabuses and three syllabuses borrowed PEEPA is available. from Cambridge International, which are Additional

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Mathematics, Statistics and French. Candidates sat for (7) Mahupu Unified Secondary School (Kweneng a minimum of eight subjects and a maximum of 11 Region) with 26.54 per cent recorded in 2020 syllabuses. compared to 21.08 in 2019.

Mr Speaker, the overall performance for 2020 does not (8) Ghanzi Senior Secondary School (Ghanzi Region) differ much from that of the previous year that is 2019. with 26.32 per cent in 2020 compared to 22.86 in This year the proportion of candidates obtaining Grade 2019. G or better in six syllabuses is 96.39 per cent, compared (9) Lotsane Senior Secondary School (Central to 97.64 per cent recorded in 2019, while the proportion Region) with 24.3 per cent compared to 24.35 of candidates obtaining Grade E or better is 65.36 per recorded in 2019. cent compared to 64.87 per cent recorded in 2019. At (10) Letlhakane Senior Secondary School (Central credit grades (C or better), the proportion of candidates region) which recorded 23.55 per cent in 2020 is 21.17 per cent compared to 20.95 per cent recorded compared to 26.35 recorded in 2019. in 2019. Overall performance shows a slight decline of 1.25 per cent but with a better quality of results as Mr Speaker, the 2020 BGCSE results further show shown by slight improvements of 0.49 per cent and that 19 candidates presented outstanding performance 0.22 per cent at Grade E or better and grade C or better, as opposed to 11 in 2019. For a candidate to make respectively. the list, they ought to have been awarded at least six A* grades. The 19 candidates are from 12 schools Mr Speaker, it is of note that Matsha College and spread across the country. Namely; St Joseph’s (four Mahupu Unified Secondary School have recorded a 100 candidates), Seepapitso Senior Secondary School (three candidates), Masunga Senior Secondary School (two per cent performance at grade G or better indicating that candidates), Naledi Senior Secondary School (two all candidates met the minimum required to be graded, candidates), Selebi Phikwe Senior Secondary School that is at Grade G or better. (one candidate), Ghanzi Senior Secondary School (one Mr Speaker, may I take this time to also congratulate candidate), Moshupa Senior Secondary School (one the top 10 schools whose proportion of credit grades candidate), Mater Spei College (one candidate), Lotsane (Grades C or better) exceeds the national achievement Senior Secondary School (one candidate), Matshekge of 21.17 per cent. The schools are as follows; Hill Senior Secondary School (one candidate), Mogoditshane Senior Secondary School (one candidate) (1) Masunga Senior Secondary School (North East and Shashe River School (one candidate), making the Region) which recorded 43.45 per cent in 2020 as 19 candidates with outstanding performance in these compared to 38.20 per cent they recorded in 2019. results.

(2) St Joseph’s College (South East Region) which Two of the 19 candidates have displayed a historic recorded 36.78 per cent in 2020 compared to their exceptional performance since the inception of the 40.97 recorded in 2019. BGCSE in 1999. These outstanding learners are;

(3) Naledi Senior Secondary School (South East (1) Tumisang Nkwe of St Joseph’s College who Region) which recorded 29.65 per cent in 2020 obtained 11 A* in 11 syllabuses, being the best compared to their 33.42 in 2019. overall student in the country.

(4) Mater Spei (North East Region) which recorded (2) Bame Tshekedi of St Joseph’s College who 27.77 per cent in 2020 compared to 28.64 in 2019. obtained, 9 A* 1A 1C in 11 syllabuses.

(5) Selebi Phikwe Senior Secondary School (Central These are the best performers for this year and historic Region) which 27.67 per cent in 2020 compared to for the BGCSE since inception as I have already said. their 26.94 in 2019. I take this moment to commend the two outstanding (6) Matsha College (Kgalagadi Region) which candidates for breaking the BGCSE record, and setting recorded 27.27 per cent in 2020 compared to a new record and the 19 candidates for outstanding 28.78 in 2019. performance. They have made the country proud and

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I am hopeful that the quality of education will indeed facilitating the closing of these gaps that they continue continue to improve in Botswana as we go along. to identify.

Mr Speaker, as stated in previous statements presented Learning should continue despite the risk posed by the to this house, it is important to note that the 2020 COVID-19 pandemic, as education is a fundamental BGCSE examinations took place under the COVID-19 human right; our kids need education. Social and environment. The Botswana Examinations Council psychological support are of paramount importance to had provided all examination centres with guidelines learners and teachers, and we will do our best to offer on how to handle the conduct of examinations amidst whatever we can in partnership with our stakeholders, the threat of COVID-19 to ensure adherence to health Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) and the protocols. The BEC worked closely with District Health private sector alike to provide quality education. Management Teams (DHMTs) to ensure that every Schools are community projects, and Honourable candidate reported as a contact or having COVID-19 Members should therefore aggressively mobilise their were able to access the 2020 examinations under a safe constituents to assist schools to produce the desired environment. The support that was provided by DHMTs outcomes. I know for sure that we will achieve more was immense and I thank them for that. In all, BGCSE in the coming years as we embark on a journey to recorded a total of 83 candidates who were able to access transform our education, and position Botswana as a their examination while under quarantine or isolation knowledge-based economy. conditions. Marking of the examinations was also decentralised to four marking venues across the country I wish to take this moment to remember and honour with which was not only costly but logistically cumbersome a somber heart, teachers and support staff in our schools for the BEC. The venues for the marking were Palapye whose lives have been lost due to COVID-19. May their (Lotsane Senior Secondary School and Mabogo Junior souls rest in peace. We will continue the good work that Secondary School), Gaborone (Mogoditshane Senior they were so much committed to, of providing quality Secondary School), and Kanye (Seepapitso Senior education to prepare a better future for our children, Secondary School). I am grateful to the Ministry of their lives should not go in vain. The continued rise in Finance and Economic Development for supporting my COVID-19 cases in our schools is a stark reminder to all ministry and BEC under difficult circumstances. of us that we are not yet out of the hook as a country, let alone the education sector. We should double our efforts Despite the challenging environment, our learners as a nation to be closer to our schools more than we have and teachers remained focused on the ultimate goal. ever done before. These teachers need you, they need I therefore wish to heartily congratulate the BGCSE your love, your warmth and encouragement for them to Class of 2020 for the good performance and challenge continue to tender to our children, your children under them to explore all available avenues within the country these difficult conditions. I thank you, Mr Speaker. and beyond for further learning and training so that they may become active participants in the creation of a MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, as you knowledge society. know, we have two problems facing us regarding the Appropriation Bill; which is time, and in so far as it I also wish to take this opportunity to thank the teaching can be done to allow clarifications, short questions or fraternity and the parents on efforts made to assist the elucidation on the Minister’s statement, we do not have learners. These results are good owing to the combined time. I think there are two Honourable Members who efforts of teachers, learners, parents, the ministry, and are going to represent you at the memorial service. I will everybody who supported schools and my ministry allow Honourable Moatlhodi. in pushing through despite obstacles that we faced, including persistent calls for closure of schools. MR MOATLHODI: Thank you Mr Speaker, good afternoon sir, good afternoon Honourable Minister. As I conclude my presentation Mr Speaker, I appeal to Honourable Minister, although you are highly praising the entire nation, especially members of this Honourable your learners, there is no single school which got a House to continue supporting our learners during this 50 per cent pass rate. Schools did not perform well difficult time. It is not enough for Members to only in all fairness. Minister, what might be the problem lament about lack of resources in schools, we need which requires your ministry to stand up to assist these members to act decisively and ensure they find ways of schools? Finally Mr Speaker, the other part that raises a

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concern is that there is no accommodation for teachers on Monday we should go live on television and also go at Shashe River School, and I suspect this is a general to the news reporters to try and explain this issue step by problem all over the country. Minister, may God help step in order for people to understand how the marking you to help our schools, eventually our country. Thank process is carried out so that we may do away with the you Mr Speaker. idea the schools did not obtain a 50 per cent pass rate. This 50 per cent, maybe those C or better grades are just MR MOLAO: I thought that you said that you are credit pass, but in terms of the standards it does not mean taking two Honorable Members Mr Speaker, so that I that those who did not obtain a credit pass did not obtain answer them all at once. a pass mark. That is the difference. It is true that when MR SPEAKER: Okay. you take it at that level, no one obtained 50 per cent out of those who obtained credit pass mark, but when you MR SALESHANDO: Thank you Mr Speaker. Maybe I add up with those who obtained a pass mark which is a should just start by applauding pupils from St Joseph’s credit, they surpass 50 per cent. We will explain them where I used to school, and everyone who once schooled when we have time so that people can understand where there and played a part in assisting the school. I would we are coming from and where we are going. like to ask the Minister if we are talking about the same results because I had concerns regarding how he praised To sum up Honourable Moatlhodi, it is true that them. We saw results which indicated that out of all the accommodation raises a concern not only at Shashe schools which obtained grade C or better, there is no River School but across the whole country. There is no single school that obtained more than 60 per cent pass way I cannot admit that poor working conditions for rate. In fact, a majority of schools are less than 30 per teachers affect them emotionally, and this demoralises cent. You should also enlighten the nation that there them from doing their jobs to the best of their abilities might be other results which are tarnishing your image and as we expect them to. This is an issue that we are which are not true, which can take us to a knowledge- working on, and we will continue assisting each other. based economy because if at all...(inaudible)… it is less Issues which were addressed in Honourable Matsheka’s than 50 per cent across all schools in Botswana, maybe Budget speech, issues like Public Private Partnerships you should be telling people if those results which (PPP) are some of the issues that we are keeping an eye tarnish your image are the ones that can take us to a on to see if we cannot try and provide accommodation knowledge-based economy, and also tell them that out through them moving forward. Honourable, it is indeed of those accurate results, how many schools obtained true, we are concerned about accommodation issues. more than 50 per cent C plus, not the ones that we have Thank you Mr Speaker. been seeing on social media. MS MONNAKGOTLA: Thank you Mr Speaker and good afternoon. I thank you for giving me this MR MOLAO: Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me confirm opportunity Mr Speaker. I hear that the Minister that I will find time and talk to BEC officials who do the released a statement so I would like to ask that last year marking, and grading so that we can extensively explain you transferred 18 teachers from Matsha College and how they mark so that Batswana can understand, because those who were supposed to replace them have not yet the just released results are totally different from the went there. You even transferred them during a time usual results whereby it was possible to hear that a child when they were preparing for examinations. That has obtained aggregate 6 which was common. Today what affected the performance of pupils negatively. Minister, they do is that in an English examination or Geography do you see that that has caused a performance decline at examination, they do not just grade that a pupil obtained Matsha College, from 28 per cent to 27 per cent. Thank 80 per cent at the end. They assess his or her script to you Mr Speaker. check if his or her practical skills demonstrates what he or she is good at in this subject; the practical life MR MOLAO: Mr Speaker, let me confirm that like skills that he or she demonstrates as he or she writes the the Member of Parliament is saying, Matsha College examination instead of just focusing on the fact that he moved from 28 to 27. That is really a decrease but all in or she obtained 80 per cent and then giving him or her all we can say it is negligible, which I believe we will A*, B or C. It appears that many people are suspicious never catch up with and associate it with the transfer of this system, they do not understand it according to of teachers. Maybe let me briefly explain that when we how BEC explains it. That is why I agree with them that transfer teachers, whether it is at Matsha or anywhere

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else, they are notified at the end of the year. We have you are going to grade. It is a body that has been given decided that when we want to transfer teachers, we notify the powers to see how they conduct their operations. I them in December so that when they go for Christmas, cannot confirm nor deny what Honourable Mmolotsi they go prepared that they are now going to work in a is saying. I do not have information on that and I can different place. They are written to, then they are given revert with the correct information. two weeks to consider if they agree with the transfer MR SPEAKER: Thank you Minister. Honourable or not, and they can plead in any way they can. This is Members, we have to move on to Appropriation. done all over the country. Those at Matsha and other places, the same process applies to them all, whereby ASSEMBLY IN COMMITTEE they were written to at the same time, and they were given two weeks to relocate to their new workplace. The (CHAIRPERSON in the Chair) unfortunate thing that is happening is that the teachers APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, who work at areas like Kang, which we take it that they 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) are far from resources, most of the time when you write to them that we wish to transfer you, they do not waste ORGANISATION 0300-MINISTRY any time to accept transfer, and they would prepare to OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC leave, whereas those who are maybe from Gaborone DEVELOPMENT are the ones we have a problem with, as when they are (Resumed Debate) transferred they refuse and say no, I cannot move from Gaborone to Kang because of certain reasons. That on MR CHAIRPERSON (MR SKELEMANI): Order! its own create delays. So we cannot hold at ransom Order! Honourable Members, the debate on this those who would have accepted the transfer, especially Organisation is resuming. When the House adjourned that most of teachers at Matsha have about 15 years, 20 yesterday, the Honourable Minister of Finance and years in the same place. They are now getting restless Economic Development was on the floor presenting and that what are the reasons they are kept in the same place he is left with 17 minutes 56 seconds. for so many years without being transferred. When we transfer teachers we consider different reasons. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC We cannot say that these transfers are to blame for the DEVELOPMENT (DR MATSHEKA): Thank you poor results because we had things like COVID-19 as Mr Chairperson and good afternoon fellow Members of we know and other different reasons that might have Parliament. I covered the introduction Mr Chairperson, affected the students of Matsha. I can confirm that and I am going to speak to major initiatives undertaken Matsha College has teachers that are supposed to be by my ministry during the financial year 2020/2021. there. Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Chairperson, my ministry has been undertaking MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I am afraid several reform programmes, projects and activities that we are running out of time. I will allow only one aimed at contributing to the effective and efficient more Honourable Member, Honourable Mmolotsi. delivery of quality service to the nation over the past year. I will list some of the initiatives: MR MMOLOTSI: Thank you Mr Speaker. Minister, maybe you should explain that last year, grading was on Economic Recovery and Transformation Plan the basis of five credits but this year it was based on six (ERTP) credits. Maybe the Minister should explain that when Mr Chairperson, in April 2020, the Government they made this change, did they consult with the schools introduced an economic stabilisation and relief package and teachers because they were preparing learners on the to ensure that the spread of the COVID-19 virus basis of grading system of five credits? If you consulted is contained, while keeping economic activity and them, what kind of programme did you use? Thank you. livelihoods afloat. The relief package was implemented MR MOLAO: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm or refute in April 2020. that. I do not have the information that Honourable Implementation of Botswana’s PFM Reform Mmolotsi is talking about. What we know is that BEC makes a decision of the grading system on their own. Mr Chairperson, the implementation of the Public They are not instructed from the ministry that this is how Finance Management (PFM) Reform Programme

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(PFMRP) is in its 10th year. Having seen a mixture revenue offices and staff houses at Shakawe, Hukuntsi of implementation successes and delays, the PFMRP and Charleshill have been completed and are in use. is now being reviewed and efforts are underway to Furthermore, staff houses were purchased from BHC at develop a new PFM roadmap. Palapye, Jwaneng, Tutume, Letlhakane, Mabutsane and Bobonong. National Financial Inclusion Roadmap and Strategy Review of the Financial Sector Laws Mr Chairperson, the Financial Inclusion Strategy was commissioned in 2015 and will end in 2021. Mr Chairperson, in executing its mandate, my ministry continues to take cognisance of Government priorities, AML/CFT Compliance Issues ensuring implementation through the National Mr Chairperson, following Botswana’s grey-listing by Development Plan (NDP) 11 in contributing to Vision the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) - International 2036. In so doing, several laws have been reviewed Cooperation Review Group (ICRG), the country made during the financial year 2020/2021, while others are a high-level political commitment to work with the being drafted. FATF and the Eastern and Southern Africa Anti-Money Mr Chairperson, in addition, the following Laws were Laundering Group (ESAAMLG) to strengthen the passed this financial year; Transfer Duty (Amendment) effectiveness of its AML/CFT regime and address any Act, 2019 – commenced on 1st of March, 2020; Capital related technical deficiencies. Transfer Tax (Amendment) Act, 2019 – commenced As reported by the FATF after the October 2020 Plenary on 1st of March, 2020; Income Tax (Amendment) Act Meetings, Botswana continued to make progress of 2020, to allow for the effective exchange of tax towards improving its AML/CFT regime. This include information, commenced on the 19th of August 2020, assessing the risks associated with legal persons, legal and Botswana Revenue Service (Amendment) Act of arrangements and Non-Profit Organisations (NPOs), 2020, commenced on the 11th of September 2020. as well as operationalising the Online Business Registration System (OBRS). Mr Chairperson, furthermore, my ministry will be presenting to the current session of Parliament the A request for re-rating of 15 FATF recommendations following Laws; Value Added Tax (Amendment) Bill, was submitted to ESAAMLG. Out of the 15 2021 (to increase the VAT rate from 12 per cent to 14 recommendations, three were considered at the per cent) – which was published in the Government November 2020 ESAAMLG meetings and were Gazette on 5th February, 2021 and will mature on 4th upgraded from a rating of “partially compliant” March, 2021; Income Tax (Amendment) Bill of 2021 to “largely compliant”. The remaining 12 will be (to increase the threshold for individual taxpayers) – this considered during the April 2021 ESAAMLG meeting. is still to be published in the Government Gazette. We will also be tabling hopefully this session the Financial Through the concerted efforts of all AML/CFT Intelligence (Amendment) Bill of 2021 (to amend the stakeholders Mr Chairperson, Botswana’s goal is to definition of “Beneficial Owner”)-still to be finalised address all the deficiencies identified in the 2017 Mutual and be published in the Government Gazette very soon. Evaluation Report and complete the ICRG action plan and ultimately get delisted from both the FATF grey- Mr Chairperson, other key Laws being reviewed are listing and the European Union (EU) black-list. The Public Procurement Bill of 2020. The objectives of latest progress report to the ICRG was submitted on the the Bill are to, amongst others, repeal the PPAD and 4th January 2021. A virtual meeting was held on the 20th LAPAD Acts to come up with a single law for public January 2021 and an on-site visit will be undertaken in procurement, and to transform the Public Procurement May 2021. The ICRG is yet to advise on how the on-site and Asset Disposal Board (PPADB) to an oversight visit will be handled. authority while devolving procurement functions to Construction of Revenue offices the Accounting Officers of ministries. The envisaged law also enforces preferential citizen empowerment Mr Chairperson, in order to enhance revenue collection, schemes. The expectation is for the Bill to be submitted as well as to bring services to the people across the to Parliament for approval and deliberation in the July country, I am pleased to inform this Committee that session of Parliament.

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The review of the Public Finance Management Act total, while the Development Budget amounts to P416, is also being done to align the law with the country’s 594,304 or 30.1 per cent. economic policy direction and also to remain responsive to global trends/demands that are ongoing. This will be Recurrent Budget submitted to Parliament in September 2021. Mr Chairperson, I request the Honourable Committee to MAJOR ONGOING PROJECTS AND approve a total Recurrent Budget of P966,924,720 for PROGRAMMES UNDER THE MINISTRY the Financial Year 2021/2022, a decrease of 3.5 per cent over the approved 2020/2021 Recurrent Budget. Promoting Digitilisation Mr Chairperson, the sum of P578, 278, 070 which is Mr Chairperson, more services will be digitalised and 59.81 per cent of the proposed Recurrent Budget, will provided online. In this regard, some major initiatives be allocated to the ministry’s headquarters. This amount aimed at improving the delivery of quality service represents a decrease of P34, 311,460 or 5.6 per cent to have been introduced, with more still to come. Such the approved budget of 2020/2021 Financial Year. The initiatives include the following: the e-tax filing system, proposed allocation to headquarters also includes an e-pay slips, automation of salary advice slips and amount of P225, 033,830, as provision for subventions ITW8, as well as E-procurement. Other services include to parastatals falling under the ministry to cover their automation of GEMVAS loan enquiries, applications, operating costs, distributed in table 1 which is also in the processing, eligibility calculator and disbursements. report tabled before Parliament.

If I should go now Mr Chairperson on account of time, For the Office of Accountant General - I request the to the review of activities under public enterprises. I do sum of P360, 746,560 which is 37.31 per cent of the so because the report has been shared with the Members Recurrent Budget. This represents a net increase of P1, of Parliament. 917,200 or 0.53 per cent over the last year or the current REVIEW OF THE ACTIVITIES OF PUBLIC year’s budget for 2020/2021. ENTERPRISES I further request an amount of P27, 900,090 of the Statistics Botswana (SB) Recurrent Budget for the Financial Intelligence Agency. This represents a decrease of 9.19 per cent over the Mr Chairperson, Statistics Botswana will conduct a pilot approved budget for 2020/2021. of the Population and Housing Census in August 2021, for preparation of the main Census in mid-2022. The Development Budget initial plan was to conduct the Population and Housing Mr Chairperson, for 2021/2022, I am requesting the Census in August 2021; however, it has been postponed approval of P416, 594,304 for Development Budget due to the current COVID-19 but the results of the for my ministry. The proposed allocation represents Census will actually be presented in the end of 2022. an increase of P265, 048,476 over the current years’ The 2021-22 Census will be the sixth census to be budget. conducted in Botswana since Independence. It will also provide indicators relating to the socio-demographic Mr Chairperson, I will now update a breakdown of the characteristics of our country, the census is also the programmes. basis for the constituency delimitation. MFED Computerisation PROPOSED MINISTRY BUDGET FOR Mr Chairperson, I request for approval of P34, 500, FINANCIAL YEAR 2021/2022 000 of the total budget for ongoing project components Mr Chairperson, the proposed budget for the Ministry under the MFED Computerisation projects. of Finance and Economic Development for Financial Statistical Surveys and Studies Year 2021/2022 amounts to P1, 383,519,024, which represents an increase of 19.9 per cent over the Financial Mr Chairperson, I request for the amount of P279, Year 2020/2021. From this amount, the Recurrent 294,304 of the Development Budget to cater for Budget amounts to P966, 924,720 or 69.9 per cent of the statistical surveys and studies.

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Consultancies or they should just forget about them and just know that it was history hence it can never happen in this era? Mr Chairperson, I request for an amount of P56, Minister, that is the point that I wanted you to clarify to 300,000 of the total Development Budget to cater for Batswana so that they know if elections are going to be consultancies. held or not because we can clearly see that everything MFED Infrastructure is shifting. When we move on Minister, we thank you for managing Mr Chairperson, I request approval of P46, 500,000 of to secure accommodation for public servants here and the total Development Budget to cater for the ongoing there according to your explanation, because public infrastructure projects as outlined as well in the report servants are suffering; they do not sleep nor live well. It presented before Parliament. is disheartening that after building a house for yourself, CONCLUSION you are then posted to Mabutsane or Jwaneng just because you want to work for your children, it is more Mr Chairperson, this concludes my presentation of like one is being abandoned. It is more like you are the 2021/2022 proposed Recurrent and Development abandoned to the companies which were there during Budget of the Ministry of Finance and Economic apartheid in South Africa before their independence. It is Development. important for people to work where they are surrounded by dignity that shows that they are under a democratic Mr Chairperson, I therefore, propose and move that Government and not apartheid. the sum of P966, 924,720 for the Recurrent Budget Minister, when we talk about issues like Fourth and P416, 594,304 for the Development Budget stand Industrial Revolution (FIR), I believe that we should as part of the Schedule and Estimates. I thank you Mr benchmark from you. In Botswana we have businesses Chairperson. like Letshego; I am giving it as an example, its headquarters are in Botswana. That being the case, their MR REATILE (JWANENG-MABUTSANE): Thank servers where funds are authorised that indeed they you Mr Chairperson, let me thank the Honourable belong to Honourable Dr Matsheka hence they can go Minister for presenting his budget request before this to his account, are all outside Botswana. Honourable august House. Let me start by saying I am concerned Matsheka, I remember that it was once said that about what the Minister is saying, knowing that last year Botswana is going to be a financial centre that side he made a request to go and do a pilot exercise of the where there are dams. So, we sometimes present ideas population census Mr Chairperson. As we were listening showing that it is possible to execute them and from to him, I was expecting to receive an update about the there when we shelve them, we do not want anyone challenges that he experienced during the pilot exercise to know that we no longer subscribe to what we once of the population census. You are also telling us that you swore to do. So the question is, how many countries are expecting the full results of the population census ever ask for Botswana to accommodate their businesses to be presented towards the end of 2022. Minister, this here? When we move on to issues pertaining to funds, issue might end up hindering us from holding general home-grown business like Letshego will end up asking elections which are normally held in every five years for accommodation outside the country because our due to the fact that the statistics of Batswana should be servers are outside. There is nothing that we can benefit presented in order to start Delimitation Commission as Botswana from a certain country because they asked which upon completion… that is when we will start for something from us. renaming an doing other things, and then Independent Electoral Commission (IEC) will start preparing their Botswana Vaccine Institute (BVI) is the only thing that budget being informed by census which tells them we can take pride in when diamonds are no longer being about the kind of elections we are getting into. Minister, sold if they do not open the market. We are only well you can assure Batswana because this is not your issue known for combating Foot and Mouth. It is not an issue alone, you are handling it with Office of the President that should embarrass us, we have to take pride in it (OP) because IEC is under them. Minister, since it is and Batswana have to be educated about it so that they a norm and it is in accordance with the Constitution of know that it is our brand. Middle East and all countries Botswana to hold elections every five years, can you purchase Foot and Mouth medicine from us. People promise Batswana that they will have elections in 2024 who work in this company are locals only.

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Honourable Matsheka, when Ministers come to you to plead that we should ensure that we give graduates a ask for funds, you should ask them when they intend to green light so that they can use their competencies to come and ask for funds to go and manufacture medicines create employment opportunities for locals and other for humans since we have shown many countries; nationals to come and work in Botswana because we Arabians, British, Dutch and Africans at large that when managed to exceedingly invest on people when it comes it comes to cattle medicine, we have capabilities. I do to issues of developing Batswana. not think that Batswana can fail to manufacture tablets for headaches if we give them adequate tools. This raises I want it to be indicative that we do not send people a concern if we can continue having this mentality that to schools to acquire certificates only. We take them to we should go and ask for medicines outside the country. school so that they can come and bring changes in the economy of Botswana. How many people have degrees? Honourable Matsheka I will continue to give an They are many and they are roaming the streets. They example, I do not know if it is still your mandate, as have ideas and no one nurtures their ideas so that we can we are hearing declarations that some countries are celebrate the results of our young people who we sent faking medicine to fight COVID-19 it is instilling fear schools. So we take them to schools so that they can on us. You saw that if we were already serious about be part of the statistics so that when the population… manufacturing medicine that can heal us, we could be (inaudible)… educated people in Botswana. The somewhere where there is direction about where we question is, how much do they serve this country? are going, having confidence on ourselves and other How much do they take services to Batswana? There is countries trusting that when Batswana put their mind to nothing that… something, they become firm and robust and the security would be first class. MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Member, your time is up. When you meet with your fellow colleagues, show them that you cannot be a Minister who is always requested MR REATILE: I was getting in spirit Mr Chairperson. for funds to go and purchase medicines that cure people I thank you. instead of asking for funds to go and produce medicines MR CHAIRPERSON: I can see. Honourable Majaga, to cure people. These are some of the things that should followed by Honourable Moagi. ensure that we are not known as a consumer nation. It should appear that some countries also want to consume MR MAJAGA (NATA-GWETA): Thank you Mr from us not whereby when the Budget is presented, Chairperson for giving me opportunity this afternoon. when you look at it, you know that it is going to other Let me thank the Minister of Finance, Honourable countries and nothing is going to be left in Botswana. Matsheka for making this great arrangement to come This is the disheartening thing because the Budget that here this afternoon and stand before Parliament, you passed which is over P60 billion, it is not in our requesting money that his ministry will utilise. Mr country, it is crossing the borders. We are only going to Chairperson, as the Minister is requesting money for his get small packages that we are going to use as food or ministry, as the Minister of Finance, a while ago he put medicines that enters our country. We cannot point out before us the overall budget or the budget of the country, how much funds this current budget is going to generate and the budget is the income generation of the country. for us. Diamonds are the only thing that is going to leave If there is no budget, there is nothing that can be done the country and when those diamonds generate income, from all the things that needed to be done. those funds are also going to be used to purchase things Mr Chairperson, as we commend him, I will like to that we can use locally. commend and support his request to be given the Honourable Matsheka, I plead that you should talk to your money he needs even though I can see there has been an colleagues. We have qualified people who have been to increase compared to the last budget. I am making this first class universities across the world, Batswana were commendation because we were facing challenges not sent to first class universities. We only failed to send so long ago. We were already lagging behind in some of Batswana to universities which are questionable but the international communities that focus on our expenses when it comes to first class universities, Batswana have and how we made the necessary compliance. Let me been there. I do not want instances whereby it seems like also thank you Honourable Members of Parliament, we we send Batswana to disreputable universities. I humbly did everything that was necessary to approve the laws

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that were requested by the likes of Financial Intelligence Government could be owning 50 per cent. So we have Agency (FIA) and some international financial agencies to ensure that there are many Batswana who are being across the world especially at Europe. Which means that grouped, even us we are getting out of Parliament and if there was a deadline, and if we did not make it, maybe there are companies available, we are going to join them we could be in trouble right now. We have approved a without leaving ourselves out, we are people and we are lot of laws and amendment bills and there were many also Batswana. Then we copy what the big companies of them which were focused on Honourable Matsheka’s of China are doing by taking the money to their country. ministry and it is evident that you are still going to do We make a budget, they take the money and it goes more. Honourable Member, as we approve this much outside the country because it is a company owned by a money and support you to be given this money, there is country and has its owners, you will find that ownership a critical, concerning issue of tenders in Botswana. is at 50/50 per cent of big companies in Botswana which can go to other countries. Ministry of Finance and other Not so long ago, I came up with a Motion which did sectors, you are the ones who can determine how we can not survive, where I was talking about corruption tackle this because I am concerned about the issue that of tenders across the board which is not occurring at our country is rich but as Batswana we are poor. I mean councils only, it is everywhere. It is not that corruption indigenous Batswana, black people. As black Batswana is committed by members of Domkrag, just because the we do not have money, we are poor but as we make country is ruled by Domkrag, people will then say it the budget, we should see how we can go about that. I is the members of Domkrag. Corruption is committed wanted to address that issue. by Batswana who are working in Botswana and are in ministries. We should look at this issue to see how Some of the companies like Letshego like someone we can tackle it because all the projects by Batswana was saying, Honourable Minister, they are companies have come to a halt. I will just give an example with which originated in this country. It has done well at a road project in the North East District, of Tshesebe- Mozambique because if you want to do a mall you Masunga which is always at courts, but it is a tender approach Letshego, whereas here it is just a loan that was awarded to Batswana. So if that keeps on shark we run to, especially those of us who are broke happening, that means that it is corruption and it causes to borrow that little money. At countries like Tanzania the economy to collapse. We need to look at those things and Mozambique, Letshego which is our brand just like Minister and we should implement some laws because Choppies, is giving people big investments that will you are the professionals and you are the experts when develop those countries. So I am saying even with BDC, it comes to money. Corruption is committed where there you should see how you can pack them so that when is money and we should ensure that we have other Bills they are unpacked, there is a serious muscle that can or amendments that we will approve in this House so also include Batswana. that the country can be in a good state. So this issue We know that other countries like South Africa had of corruption, it is a war which is far from over. It is things like black empowerment. So if we do not do everywhere and you can never know what causes it. anything locally, we are going to be left behind because In the end, we are just pointing fingers at each other, other Batswana of Chinese origin and other Batswana but we do not find a remedy. Maybe since you are the from different tribes are the groups that have money. Minister of Finance, you have to assess the situation and come up with something that can assist us. Mr Chairperson, I can testify that as I am and since my existence, National Development Bank (NDB) and Let me move on and say Minister, I am pleading that Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA) other countries have achieved a lot when it comes to have rejected me, so how about someone who is just…, establishing big local companies of consortiums. I am I was once a Council Chairman, just trying to request always stressing this issue. If you look at China which something. So I am wondering that those people, are we say is rich, it is not that it is rich as most companies these other companies, which I think they are the ones like China Rail are owned by the Government of that just talk but when you get on the ground, you will China. I know that there are the likes of Botswana find that some things are not done properly. That is why Development Corporation (BDC), so now is the time I sometimes commend Honourable Serame and tell her that as a country, we take that avenue as we can see that that they should go all over the country to ensure that there are the likes of Lucara Mine and maybe Botswana the likes of CEDA just do not see neat documents only

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and give those people money, but ensure that Batswana with them, 50 per cent or 25 per cent depending on at Sekondomboro and other places can access such whether Batswana have land, it should not be just about services. lending them funds, and not partaking. Let Batswana continue…(Interruptions)… Mr Chairperson, we thank you for you explanation. It seems like I had an understanding that scared me, even MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Majaga. though I might have heard Honourable Reggie put it in a way he did in regards to Population and Housing MR MAJAGA: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Census and its budget. Even right now, that is why we MR CHAIRPERSON: I give the floor to Honourable have allocated money that you are going to fast-track Moagi, followed by Honourable Ramogapi. because of the COVID-19 issue. Conduct it so that as Batswana we can know if we are stagnant or we are HONOURABLE MEMBER: Thank you Mr growing because we see international companies come Speaker… here although some are saying no, the population of MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Moagi! Batswana is low and it is not conducive for business. Conduct that population census and do everything that HONOURABLE MEMBER: Honourable Moagi, has to be done. We understand that we are in challenging sorry. times of COVID-19 and so on. HONOURABLE MEMBER: It was said you are Let me move on Mr Chairperson, Minister I would like coming after him. to indicate that I thank you for your progress in regards to being online and going digital. It is something that MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN a lot of these applications like Government Employees TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR Motor Vehicle and Residential Property Advance MOAGI): I thank you Chairperson of the Committee. Scheme (GEMVAS) and the many others, and even I rise to support the Bill as presented by Honourable paying Botswana Unified Revenue Service (BURS) like Matsheka. In fact, he is challenging us, and we are it is happening right now, need education only. Let me being challenged by the financial situation we are seeing also make a request that to make the economy grow, we here that we should consider some of the things that we have to ensure that we have revenue offices at the likes already have, and they are not doing well. They are the of Gantsi, Nata and other places because the Ministry ones that could assist us to fix this situation, so that we of Agriculture, which is led by Minister Gare, you will could make use of what we already have and be able to find that they are farmers and people travel about 300 achieve the developments or the services that we need. kilometres (km) to go to the revenue offices to collect I am considering whether we are talking about their money. Some of these things if there is money collecting tax or fixing how we have been taxed (tax available in your development budget, implement them reforms), compliance and issues of tax remittance and at the likes of Gantsi, Masunga and other places so that so forth, collecting rates from councils and rates from they are available in these districts and sub districts so land boards. These are the things for which we have that Batswana can get assistance. to come up with ways as to how we are going to go Let me also say there are issues which are a concern about them so that we could bring that revenue forth, for me, in regards to money we have borrowed to other and have it come into the economy, and make use of it countries as a country, example, the issue of Zimbabwe appropriately. I am saying this because all of us know in regards to Botswana Meat Commission (BMC) that the mines have not been doing well, therefore this taking live cattle to Zimbabwe, that after that how do we challenges us to consider how we could fix the economy get back our money that we borrowed them? We took and accelerate economic and export diversification part in reviving the economy of Zimbabwe, but you so that we could see what this could yield. Us having cannot get any clarification on those issues. Let them shifted from diamonds, we have to consider things like be explained. maybe manufacturing, which mostly happens here. Let us assist them with all that can emanate from the budget, Botswana Development Corporation (BDC) and Citizen whether it is considering that when they export what Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA), should could be the incentives, how are the exchange rates merge with some Batswana here, and do businesses going to affect them. I am considering industries such

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as those for metals, who feel the pinch when they seek you would have given to the relevant people to do those assistance from outside. Let us look into this issue and duties should be utilised timeously. In our manifesto, see whether they cannot have a special dispensation. If I we said we would make bold decisions. Therefore let take the metal industry as an example, not meaning they us implement, we should not back down, so that we can are the only ones, we need to assist them in that regard. achieve that which can assist the parents and Batswana back at home. Considering programmes like the Special Economic Zones (SEZs), which could help us to create jobs, In addition, on page 43, you are talking about something especially those that are leaning towards assisting the which I liked very much and I would like to…on youth. Even the youth should have incentives which paragraph 43, One Stop Border Posts. These One Stop could be in line with projects. Some of them that I am Border Posts as we have just completed the Kazungula considering could assist in creating these jobs; there Bridge, they assist that the turnaround time for goods are things which are already there in our country, be it and trade become swift. If you could spread them land, offices or factory shells, they are just idling. For across areas as you have been saying, it is something example, Orapa House, BDC factory shells in Taung that could really help. In addition, you will recall that in and some land that you find idling there. The things some areas, some borders like Ramotswa and Plaatjan, which we already have, rather than having them getting there are some bridges and some new things; hence, we dilapidated, we should use them although we will find should not leave out this infrastructure becoming white ourselves having given them to the youth at a pittance, it elephants. They should also be expanded, so that they is better than having them getting old yet the youth have can reduce the congestion and increase the revenue no place to operate from, yet having ideas and projects coming into the country. We should also consider them. they wish to do. Let us give them these office spaces One Stop Border Posts. I believe the revenue from and factory shells, once they start operating properly, we goods which will be coming in, especially at those will be able to give them something. These are some of borders like in Ramotswa, they will be able to pay for all the necessary services there. Be it the officers at the things that will revive the economy; youth can create Customs, Botswana Unified Revenue Service (BURS) their own jobs. We should not start looking for many or whoever, that would be able to pay for the goods and things, yet not making use of them as a Government; the revenue which would be generated there. We should and some of them have already been paid for, the funds not sideline these things, because they can assist us in would have already been put to use. That is why I am terms of congestion, delivery times of petrol as it keeps lamenting that we should assist the youth with those coming in, it should come in on time. things. In the same manner as some certain companies are assisted with incentives, of SEZ, they should also Minister Matsheka, I am concerned with the issue of have something like tax incentives that they would be overdesign. I have observed in many things that when able to make use of. We will be sorting out the 37 per something is talked about, they use quite a large amount cent of wastage, which Minister Matsheka mentioned in of money, and then in the end, it appears that it was his speech. not necessary to spend those funds. Be it taking water to Magope-Disaneng or a clinic at Metsimaswaane I am happy with the issue on Paragraph 47 of your or wherever, for these things a lot of funds would be speech, on service delivery through Information quoted. Therefore let us have a team for people who are and Communications Technology (ICT), that is the already there, not that we should go and form a team, so digitalisation we are talking about. Technology will help that they would be able to check that when it is said a us with many things. We used to take two to three days hospital has been designed in Moshupa or wherever, can to communicate, nowadays it is just a phone call away this design not waste funds. Is it fit for purpose? It should using cell phones, which our parents did not have in the not be an elaborate thing, and once it is done, it would olden days, but nowadays they know how to use them. mean there would be no funds for those things that are All these things, old age pension and so forth, even the supposed to be included, be it medicines, workers or tenders, are just posted online. Payments, point of sales, machines. At least we could have a building that is not e-tax as you mentioned, payslips, if everything comes to that flamboyant, but being able to provide services, be this point, we could reduce congestion in our country, it medicines or expertise; those are the things we should and we would be able to bring services to the people reserve funds for, so that we would be able to provide as fast as possible. This is a challenge that the funds services to the people. Water is something that I talk a

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lot about, if we do not overdesign for the pipes and other this Budget, it is going to be approved. I wish that there things that are expensive, we would be able to provide can be a Performance of Budget Quarterly Report and water to most villages, as soon as possible. His Committee should release it time and again so that we go through it. Minister, having said that, there are I am happy with the Public Procurement and Asset some points that I do not support, and I wish that the Disposal Board (PPADB), putting things in order. Government can listen and improve them next time. Sometimes it does not mean our things do not happen on time because funds are not released, it is due to a The first point is in relation to Value Added Tax (VAT); concern about procurement, which is marred by cases, it is not right Mr Chairperson. It should fall under the funds are frozen, and even those in the constituencies Botswana Unified Revenue Service (BURS), it is the that are supposed to be used to take developments to the one that is going to continue collecting tax for him. people are not being used. I wish we could address this Honourable Members, let us remember that firstly, VAT issue, and I would like to promise you that when you taxes someone who works at Ipelegeng. Since he or she come to Parliament with this Act, we should be ready was taxed 12 per cent, it is now saying that he or she will to support it, so that we would be able to improve the be taxed 14 per cent when he or she buys food. Number speed at which procurement is taking place, such that two; VAT taxes an old woman’s old age pension as she these services could reach the people. will be taxed 14 per cent when she buys food. So when these things are introduced, we should say no, that is not Let me also appreciate the Economic Recovery and how the country should be administered. We should at Transformation Plan (ERTP). Let me point out that the least increase taxes of people who earn bigger salaries good thing is if these services could be executed, by and spare those who do not earn a lot of money. Number young Batswana in Botswana. They would be able to three; this VAT means that when a poor person goes to address everything that needs to be improved. If they buy food, he or she will be taxed 14 per cent. So we are are going to be executed by many people from outside, saying no to these things Minister Matsheka, next time they are going to end up focusing on sending funds you should assess these things since they fall under your outside the country, and there will be shortage of funds ministry. to implement developments locally. MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Ramogapi, We should look at these things from that perspective Honourable Healy is asking for clarification. and be able to use the resources that we already have. We should not go and look for things that we do not MR RAMOGAPI: Let me yield for him even though have. There is a lot that we already have, we just need he never yields for me. to make sure that we can execute with what we have. Yes, we should not look for things that we do not have. MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Clarification. I Therefore, we will be able to help our fellow countrymen am going to yield for you Honourable. Thank you who need assistance. With those words, I support your Chairperson. Honourable Member, when you talk proposal Minister. Thank you Mr Chairperson. about taxing old women, poor people and Ipelegeng workers, do you understand that there is zero-rated MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Thank you Mr food substances or food substances that are not taxed? Chairperson. Let me start by applauding Minister Do you realise that food substances which are taxed are Matsheka for two or three things. When I assess his not your basic food stuffs? So, most of the people who Budget, it is the only budget that used the objectives you have mentioned are not going to pay VAT on food of the fiscal policy of the National Development Plan substances because they are zero-rated. Thank you. (NDP) 11 which indicates that developments should be 30 per cent of the Budget and that the Recurrent MR RAMOGAPI: Thank you Honourable Healy. No, Budget should be 70 per cent. That thing is evident in you should pay attention to it Honourable. This VAT is his Budget. Some ministries did not stick to this rule. across. Sometimes when you pay attention, this VAT… Honourable Saleshando once made a suggestion in I would also like to thank him because as I was assessing relation to VAT, saying that it should be omitted from his budget, I noticed the alignment of priorities of the essential things and basic food substances. This current nation and those of his ministry. Those are the efforts VAT does not indicate that it is going to spare the less that should be supported in order for these things to be privileged people. It does not spare anyone and that is visible. I want to encourage him that since I supported painful.

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Minister Matsheka, I plead that you should clarify the and ask why the system is always down and if these issue pertaining to 50 per cent of the vacant posts. We people cannot be paid manually you tell us that payments do not want instances whereby at the end, we would not can be processed manually so that the business can go know what we passed when it comes to the issue of 50 on as usual. What we are seeing at our constituencies is per cent of the vacant posts or what kind of positions that they always say that the system is down. Payments they are. We should sit down. The time when you give are not being processed. Government suppliers are not us quarterly reports, you should highlight posts that you being paid. are going to freeze so that in future we would not be shocked because you froze essential positions because MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Ramogapi, they were vacant temporarily while looking for people Honourable Hikuama is asking for clarification. to appoint. I hope that in your ministry, you should have MR HIKUAMA: Clarification. Thank you Honourable. tapped how you campaigned saying that you are going Comrade, can you please explain the PPP policy to create over 100 000 jobs, talking about 200 000 jobs. according to you understanding. It was said that it On this issue, you pointed out how many jobs you are is going to be used to construct roads, so how would going to create in your ministry since there are many it operate? I believe that investors are people who jobs. That is not happening and it is disheartening. always want to benefit something when they invest on There is an issue that banks are still appointing something. So how are they going to benefit from our foreigners. This issue raises eyebrows, and it is not a roads in Botswana? According to how you understand good practice. At this point in time, all Chief Executive it, what is going to motivate them to partner with the Officer (CEO) positions in Banks should be occupied Government? by young Batswana since they qualify. Secondly, it is MR RAMOGAPI: Thank you sir. It is easy but painful that all along Botswana Life Insurance company unfortunately this country is governed by Domkrag had a Motswana Chief Executive Officer (CEO) but which does not understand things. It is coming up with now it has appointed a Boer CEO from South Africa. proposals that it does not understand. It is easy because Minister Matsheka, keep an eye on these things, pay when I am an investor, I can decide to construct a road attention to them. that has tollgates and the earnings will come directly to The other thing is that we should be clear about the me. In that way, I will be benefiting gradually. As an Public Private Partnership (PPP) issue. We should be investor, you would advertise on it. An advertisement firm and say, “Honourable Members, this is how we are is expensive, if we were governing, it was going to be going to manage the PPP policy and this is our aim” If easy. These ones are failing, just wait and see. you can manage these things like that, they are going Minister Matsheka, the other issue that raises a concern to be valuable because according to how things are, it is that…no Honourable Members, can you just relax, is important for private investors to partner with the this country is for us all. We cannot keep on hearing Government. allegations that P100 billion is missing and while still on I want to applaud BURS for accommodation; Minister that issue, today we are coming across articles saying that I appreciate that issue. I received something at Palapye, there is a conflict at Directorate of Public Prosecutions half a loaf is better than nothing. I appreciate the (DPP), Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime accommodation that we received but that is not enough (DCEC) and others are also fighting, no you are getting Minister. Public servants who work at BURS are all of us in trouble. This P100 billion will get us into complaining at Palapye that there is no progression. trouble and it is tarnishing your ministry Honourable They are not promoted. They have long been stagnant. Matsheka. If this much money is stolen from Bank of Botswana, how porous is it? How bad is it that such a lot The other issue that I am not supposed to finish my of money can go missing? So be aware of these things debate without addressing is Government Accounting Honourable Matsheka, you should communicate and and Budget System (GABS). There are challenges at ensure that these cases are prosecuted at courts so that our respective Constituencies. Public servants have this we can move on, or else after this our country is going common phrase, “the system is down, the system is to have action taken against it again, because you are down”, that is their only language. The system is down the ones who told us that this much money that we have so we cannot process payments. When we come to you never had, has gone missing.

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Honourable Members, let us refrain from the issues to go down instantly. Let me thank you Honourable that are untrue which are being said, which were used Member that you did the right thing and Parliament to mislead people and make them hate Khama, that approved these laws. Right now an investor who wants is not a good thing. You know that we only have one to invest in Botswana knows that when it comes to issues country and we want to work for it day and night. This that are associated with money, he or she can deposit or issue Honourable Members, does not have a beginning, withdraw money without any problem. everyone can just see that it is a mess. Right now we hear that the person who wrote the affidavit is denying it, it Honourable Member, some laws that are approved are is just a problem and this is all a mess. No Honourable the ones that I believe can assist us especially when we Matsheka, just take control and advise each other, sit look at the economy of Batswana. If you can look at the down with the Honourable Member and discuss the issues that are associated with Public Procurement and things that are messing up our country. Thank you. Asset Disposal Board (PPADB), many projects were not implemented due to the fact that there are many MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable court cases because PPADB has loopholes, and every Ramogapi. I give the floor to Honourable Billy. day those who have not won tenders are suing that the procedure was not followed. We need to act immediately ASSISTANT MINISTER OF YOUTH and ensure that, like you explained Honourable Member, EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE we implement a new PPADB or it is renewed so that it DEVELOPMENT (MR BILLY): Thank you Mr can protect Batswana. Chairperson. Let me also thank the Minister for bringing his request which he wishes we can support him on, and The other thing Honourable Member is that, these let me indicate that I support him wholeheartedly. laws that I am talking about which are going to improve the businesses of Batswana; Citizen Economic Honourable Matsheka, let me thank you for when you Empowerment (CEE) should be implemented and we realised that you cannot run this economy using old should know that small-scale businesspeople need the ways, you came up with a plan to revive and bring support of laws so that they can grow their businesses, changes to the economy, or a plan that gives direction because he or she is going to compete with establishments on how the economy may be revived in these times of that already have the experience of running a business in COVID-19. Honourable Member, you should be aware an appropriate way. that this implementation has to be achieved in time so that the plans that we have are implemented in a state Businesses that are reserved for Batswana is a great they are in and how they were explained. idea that is being implemented. If you can look at the businesses owned by Batswana, they are collapsing and The other issue that I wanted you to pay attention to is those that are collapsing are those that are protected. the one of monitoring. Most of the time you will find We are saying they are businesses that are reserved for that our plans are good in writing but when it comes Batswana, but there is a lot of fronting among those to monitoring, you will find that we are weak when it businesses. The others where there is no fronting, you comes to ensuring that we implement what we are talking will find that a foreigner is there running this business about. In the end even evaluation is also important, so that cooks fat cakes. I am saying fat cakes must be that we know whether the aspirations that we wanted reserved for Batswana. Businesses that sell second to implement, we implemented them properly, establish hand cars are for Batswana and it cannot be hard for where we failed and where we improved. I believe that a Motswana to run it. We should implement laws those words are important for us to stick to and follow that obligate that if you are a foreigner and you come them. here to sell cars, you should know that you are going to sell it with a Motswana involved at a certain given The other thing Honourable Member, let me thank percentage. I take it that is something that can improve you that during the last Parliament, you came up with the businesses owned by Batswana which can also financial legislatives; the laws which were focused on improve the economy of Batswana. issues of money, and not so long ago some countries gave us a cold stare regarding the way we obey these Vocational work is something that Batswana know very laws, there were issues of blacklisting, which if they can well. They need to be protected. Business that deal with be implemented in the country, the economy is going vocational work owned by Batswana should be improved

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by improving their funding. Our banks do not recognise as another example; most buildings are owned by someone who does not have a pay slip and works under Government but we do not pay rates and the levy, so a tree. This is what we are saying we should be aware of it means to collect money from the city of Francistown Honourable Minister. I trust you Honourable Member, is going to be a challenge for them, a tedious task. This let us pay attention to these situations so that we can is something we have to consider, and see how it could try to improve them for the betterment of businesses be improved, so that we come back to the issues of owned by Batswana. membership.

Honourable Member, you also said that we are going Revenue collection at the councils is not happening sir, to use technology to create one Government or to share and I would like to state that this is something we could information with the relevant ministries. That is why I assist councils with to find better ways to collect revenue am happy about this Honourable Member because it is so that the funds could be used to develop the country going to improve businesses, people are going to get and the economy of Botswana. This is something we services in time and this is going to revive the economy. have to pay close attention to when we talk about ways When someone is at an area where a car is needed to of sourcing funds or collecting them; to assist Botswana. provide a service and takes days getting there, one can receive information by just pressing a single button and “EXCHANGE OF SPEAKERSHIP” then service is provided. That can improve the economy MR CHAIRPERSON (MR PULE): Your time is up of Batswana if we can implement it as soon as possible. Honourable Minister. It is very important for the Government to realise that one Government is important because when it comes MR BILLY: Mr Chairperson, allow me to rest my case to one Government, there is no shortage of information here. because everywhere you are, you always get information that you need. MR CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon Honourable Members. Honourable Letsholo, the floor is yours. You should really pay attention to State-Owned- Agencies, there are too many of them. Their MR LETSHOLO (KANYE NORTH): I thank you responsibilities and mandates are similar and some of Mr Chairperson this afternoon. Allow me to also make them do not generate income but they continue to be my contribution as a way of accepting the budget there. You need to pay a lot of attention to them. Look at presentation by Honourable Minister Matsheka, in the National Development Bank (NDB), if you take the which he explained what his ministry is panning do. statistics of Batswana who were assisted a few days ago Let me start by acknowledging the fact that he seems and how many businesses that were funded by NDB are adamant and focused, he is delivering; as he has been still operational and have not been repossessed, because explaining to us what he has managed to achieve in his most of the businesses that were funded by NDB end up ministry. Mr Chairperson, I had hoped when he started, being repossessed. That can improve businesses owned he would expand on his achievements by expanding by Batswana, and also the agencies that are state owned on the issue which Parliament endorsed that we should should be reduced because that is where Batswana lean more towards giving Batswana the authority or money ends. You will find that there is a Chief Executive a bigger role to play in the economy, especially those Officer (CEO) everywhere, but when you look at their owning small businesses. That they should be awarded mandate, you will find that it is all the same. That is Government projects which amount to below P10 something I hope you can pay a lot of attention to. million so that they would be able to make profit and learn how to do these things, so that as time goes on, Revenue collection is slow, but if we give councils the they would be able to do bigger projects with higher autonomy to collect, they would generate significant figures. Therefore, I was hoping in his comments earlier, amounts if they would be given the authority to be he would touch on it a bit because we are hopeful, for autonomous. Last time councils were able to collect the small business community. rates from Government buildings, but this has since been stopped for about three years or so; it is no longer Minister, let me also clarify that I accept that in the happening. Let us take Sowa town for example; whom coming days, in a not so distant future there will be does it collect rates from because all the buildings there regulations which would give Parliament an opportunity belong to the Government? Let us take Francistown to dialogue about the issue of taxes and levies which he

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talked about last time. When they come to Parliament, Minister, what I am a bit sceptical about is that when for us to have a look at them, probe deeper, give the I look into the budgets which we have already come guidance which we can, agree as we can that what he across, maybe looking at the one from Trade because wishes to see happening as something which drives they are about to be presented, it seems although we have our economy, at the end of the day should happen; about three months or so to reach June, we do not see we should achieve it. So let me just say we will be any changes in the budgets, regarding the change that waiting for those Honourable Minister. I have hope and will take place because the rationalisation would have expectations because we know that you are a Minister already started. There are no visible budget adjustments who listens. When we say things, guiding you, you take which we are seeing as a result of rationalisation of heed of the advice. I remember last time you retracted a SOEs. Maybe you should also clarify that one to us certain report, I believe it was during supplementaries. Honourable Minister Matsheka. After being guided, you withdrew it, and made some amendments, and the next day you came once again. So Mr Chairperson, still on that one, the one regarding the I know that you are somebody who listens. rationalisation of SOEs, when I look into the budget again, I am not able to see the budget which will be Honourable Minister, there is also an issue of people driving this project of rationalising the SOEs, so where who collect our taxes at the Botswana Unified Revenue are the funds going to come from. I have not sent ay Service (BURS), they have pointed out that they do amount anywhere. I had asked myself if I would see it not understand and have not conducted a study to find on Honourable Matsheka’s budget from the ministry, out how much we could collect for Botswana, that is a but I cannot see it; and even when I look at the budget tax collection base. They were saying it is a study that for Trade going forward, still I cannot see anything. they are yet to conduct, to find out exactly how much Now this brings about worry whether we would in fact should be collected out there; to collect it and put it achieve when we cannot see the needed funds captured in the Government coffers. We have to be swift to act in the budget. If I may give an example; if it happens on this Honourable Minister. We should not make it like this, some people are going to lose jobs, so what wait until next year; let us do it as soon as possible so are they going to be paid with? What are they going to that we should not manoeuvre like people who do not be compensated with? The separation packages and so know where they are going. One should not undertake a forth. Or are we maybe looking into the fact that there journey without a destination. It now seems as if we do would be a supplementary budget? I just wanted to say not know where we are going, we are not far looking. We keep saying they have collected 96 or 98 per cent of we should be visionary this time Honourable Minister, the target which has been set and most of the revenue we should not wait for the supplementary budget, we that could be collected would still be out there. Just should budget for this exercise from the get go. because they would not know the tax universe of our As I move further, I have also seen in your budget country at the moment. that there is P40 million Minister, for Public Private Let me also remind you that in the last Parliament, it was Partnerships (PPPs) consultancy. Ah! Is this P40 million said they agree with the inkling of you coming up with not too much just for consultancy, although we might an idea to expand this, and be done as soon as possible. not have seen further what it is these funds are going They can accept it because there is a belief that if it were to do exactly. I believe our country is collaborating possible for BURS to collect all the taxes before the with other countries like South Africa, and this country increment, it could be unnecessary to increase the taxes. already knows, it has worked on many PPPs a number So this is something we are serious about, we wish to of times, even for bigger projects. Rather than us taking support you on it Minister Matsheka. P40 million to go and pay for that consultancy, do we not think the likes of Honourable Kwape from MOFAIC There is another issue I wish to comment on Minister, could ask other countries to assist us with a template for regarding the rationalisation of State-Owned Enterprises (SOEs). I am glad because most of the time us to be able to cut costs? When there are no funds like we complained that our Government is not putting a is the case, we have to do all we can to avoid spending timeline or target, but this time the Minister has put from the Government coffers. Maybe they could assist a timeline that his wish is that by June, the issues of us with their templates, tweaking them here and there so rationalising SOEs would commence. that we can arrive where we wish to go.

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Minister, the other one which I wish to talk about is MR CHAIRPERSON: Your point is noted, I think in regard to the Financial Intelligence Agency (FIA) you are quite right, it should be expressed in both offices structure. I can see here that you have reserved numbers and words. Like you are saying, if you miss P35 million for building FIA offices! Really! Even in it in numbers then you can read in words what those this Corona pandemic, when it is so hard to source figures are referring to. I think you are correct, but now funds, when the revenue has been reduced; is the FIA I take it that it is an advice that we can maybe give building that important such that we cannot wait for two to other ministers who are coming to present. We are years or so, and continue paying rent for where they are suggesting that it should be done on both, which is quite accommodated now, and consider it later after improving understandable. the revenue that is trickling into the Government coffers; after the pandemic has subsided? The Minister, being MR LETSHOLO: Thank you Mr Chairperson. I asked someone I know and trust very much, as someone who for an update on time... listens, in case you take heed of what I am saying, please MR CHAIRPERSON: You have one minute, 39 take those funds to Kgomokasitwa to build a clinic. One seconds. never knows, but you might agree with me Honourable Minister. Maybe when we implement it, we should MR LETSHOLO: Thank you Mr Chairperson. I am consider doing it through Public Private Partnership aware that Minister Matsheka is from financial services, (PPP). We should not directly take funds from the and he used to be the head of some big companies. Government, maybe we should partner with investors. Therefore, I know and I believe that he understands the importance and the value of financial services when In conclusion Mr Speaker, I am well aware that you dealt it comes to supporting the economy of Botswana. I with financial services. You are one person who long plead that he should spearhead the idea of transforming dealt with finances and I believe that you understand... Botswana into a financial services hub. I believe that MR TSHERE: Procedure. Thank you Honourable former Ministers and Former Presidents like Mr Mogae Chairperson, they are two actually. The first one is that pursued this matter and that is why they formed the I am worried this side because I raise my hand, I ask for International Financial Services Company (IFSC) procedures but it seems like you do not notice me that which merged with Botswana Export Development side, but I do not suspect that maybe you want to punish and Investment Authority (BEDIA) to form Botswana me. I believe that maybe the system does not display Investment and Trade Centre (BITC). Minister, it seems me that side because since yesterday, I do not appear like we went silent on this idea or we are not talking on the chat, I am not pointed at even when I am topping about it with a loud voice like we did before. This means the chat. I do not know what is causing this. Maybe we that we are missing out on opportunities that come with should check the thing. paying attention to financial services, we are not able to Procedure that I wanted to raise Mr Chairperson is that get them. So Minister, let us move close and evaluate regarding the presentation by Honourable Minister Dr the IFSC progress, what should be done to improve it Matsheka, yesterday we stated that maybe he should so that it can be beneficial to us. So, maybe after we express money in numerical and wording form. I benefit from it, we will see financial services companies thought that that procedure is there so that in case there bringing their head offices to Botswana, for us to start is a mistake in numbers, we can refer to words and link having our own banks in Botswana as I highlighted last these two things because it is important to link them. time. Thank you Minister, I support your presentation. I notice that Honourable Matsheka’s presentation is Thank you. expressing money in numerical forms only, but there are instances where he expresses money in words only. MR KEKGONEGILE (MAUN EAST): Thank you I wanted to ask if this is the procedure of this House Mr Chairperson, how much time do I have? because in most of the presentations that I came across, funds were expressed in numerical and wording form. MR CHAIRPERSON: You are given 10 minutes. Is this the procedure and are we going to continue like MR KEKGONEGILE: Thank you. that? I do not think that I am one to advise Honourable Dr Matsheka about finances, but this raises a concern. MR CHAIRPERSON: Oh sorry, you are going to have Thank you. five minutes actually.

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MR KEKGONEGILE: Thank you Mr Chairperson. high percentage of wastages in tender.... the free market When we move straight to the statistics, we should have economy system whereby there is a huge gap between a population census this year but due to the fact that the rich and the poor or the rich are getting richer and the pandemic is stated as a justification, the census has the poor are getting poorer, is not good. Honourable been postponed. One could ask that since it has been Matsheka, you should pay attention to that when you postponed, P223 million that was allocated to census, implement these things. was it not necessary to move the expenditure and allocation to the next financial year? Maybe this time Revenue collection in our country; we have to upsurge around it could have been allocated nine or P10 million the strategies of collecting revenue and dependent for the cartographic work. The issue of Government modalities. We can see that we are talking about Accounting and Budgeting System (GABS); GABS technology, but as we are talking about technology, raises a concern. In every Budget Speech, GABS we should pay attention to the long distance that people is always included in the allocation for Ministry of at the lands and villages travel to go and pay for simple Finance and Economic Development. You always say conveniences. We have to see how we can connect to that you are going to appoint consultants and that you services like My-Zaka and Orange Money which people are upgrading the system. This lip service that is now at the settlements and cattle posts are using, so that they becoming the motto for Domkrag regarding the annual can make payments while they are the cattle posts, lands consultancy, the system that you are upgrading and the and all the sorts instead of travelling long distances to improvements that you are always talking about is not go to the banks since they are not accessible there. good because Batswana are suffering. When someone You are talking about what you have done so far when goes to get his or her payments, it is always said that it comes to anti-money laundering compliance issues. GABS is down. There are situations like the one pertaining to second hand vehicles in Mogoditshane. You made an effort We are seeing regional projects under this ministry at there but only because those businesses are owned by North West. We are seeing Revenue office that is going black people. Right now when you go to Chinese shops to be constructed at Shakawe, BSB branches which are and other shops which are owned by some foreign going to be launched at Gumare and Maun. We have natives, there are no swiping systems. This means Boteti West Constituency that side, we do not know that their transactions are not transparent financially what those poor people did to upset God. Revenue and otherwise hence they are not transparent and they office is also essential at Rakops. Minister when you cannot be traced. That means that if they are still left do assessments, you should consider Boteti West behind, we cannot manage to achieve the anti-money Constituency because it does not have a representative. laundering compliance because you are going to impress the international community but we are failing in reality. When we look at the Bills that you plan to table, you Thank you Mr Chairperson. intend to propose the 14 per cent VAT increment. We understand that tax is one of the strategies that the MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Members, I now Government can put in place to try and raise revenue to call upon Honourable Minister of Finance and Economic cover expenditure. The explanation that we are getting Development to reply to the debate. from this 14 per cent is that it is said that out VAT is one of the lowest in Southern Africa and one can wonder MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC if we are competing with other countries or we do so DEVELOPMENT (DR MATSHEKA): Thank you looking at what our nation can afford and the impact that Mr Chairperson. Let me thank all the Honourable these taxes are going to have on the economy and our Members who managed to comment. I know that most nation. When you look at the high rate of corruption in of you wanted to comment but time is not on our side. our country and the 37 percentage wastage...corruption and 37 per cent wastage are some of the things that are Let me start by thanking Honourable Reatile for associated to rich or wealthy people. When we talk about addressing the issue of the census. That is an important inclusive economy, you will wonder that if poor people issue Honourable Members because maybe we can see are going to be slapped with VAT that is going to affect what we can do about our constituencies in regards to their lives negatively while rich people are given tax the many expectations that we have after the census. holidays, while there is a high trend of corruption and a Let me confirm that Honourable Members, I am also

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answering Honourable Kekgonegile, a census takes 10 We should wonder if we can build the hospital and a days only. For you to be able to achieve it in 10 days, private businessperson can build the houses for nurses. you will need about 10,800 enumerators; people who will go into the village. In that way you also have to MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND confirm the time of training that there are enough COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): On a point numbers and they have already met. It was discontinued of clarification. Let me thank Mr Chairperson and let me due to COVID-19. Statistics Botswana are using the also thank the Minister. I will try to be brief. You were technology that will allow that in November 2022, telling the truth, most of us really wanted to comment. statistics of the census will be out so that we can be On this issue regarding the census, Minister has been able to plan for Delimitation Commission, which will clarifying it. It seems like the Honourable Members be in 2023. That does not mean that it will change the are associating it with politics and elections. Before constituencies because the truth is that elections will be you emphasise some factors, it is more associated with held, whether there is a census or not. The Electoral Act how we distribute developments, because it assists us has never waited for a delimitation during a year of the to determine who is going to get these developments census. I want to confirm that elections will be held no like education, health and so on, where they are needed matter what happens. and the population that will be provided with those That way, I am also answering the one regarding the developments. budget by Honourable Kekgonegile, most of the work From the laws that you are reviewing that are associated is in the preparatory work so that we get to the 10 days with the financial sector, you can emphasise taxation on that have been stipulated. digital products. Thank you.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DR MATSHEKA: Thank you Honourable Member. DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MS Let me say I will keep on answering them as we move MANAKE): On a point of clarification. Thank you along. Thank you very much. Mr Chairperson. Let me ask Honourable Matsheka that with all this information that we have, from This issue of procurement regarding the role of Batswana Omang, death registry, Standard 7s, Form 3s, Form 5s, in the economy is important. That is why I said we are university enrolment, COVID test and everything, was going to bring this Motion to Parliament so that we can there any way in which we could actually utilise this be able to comment on it and agree on what it is we want data to determine, with pensions included, how much to do. I explained a lot of times that we are the ones our population may be? Maybe you can give us that who implemented these laws that exclude us. I always P223 million at Ministry of Agriculture Honourable explain that there are no foreigners in committees that Matsheka. distribute the resources of the country, it is us Batswana who meet and agree that you should be a Motswana of HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)... a certain age with certain qualifications. In that way, it is our responsibility and that of the public officers to see DR MATSHEKA: The truth Honourable Minister is that how we can rectify this kind of situation. Local content a census is not conducted to determine the population is going to be defined by ourselves. The law will be of people only, it is also associated with the income implemented. I explained that the way things are, you status, the lives of people in general; many things that should indicate that the first person to be assisted was a are needed to decide many Government policies. In that Motswana. You can at least find yourself a foreigner to case, delimitation is only one aspect that can determine assist you as a Motswana on how you are going to go the population of people. about it.

When I move on to the issue of housing which was When I move on to the issue of International Financial addressed by Honourable Reatile, when we talk about Services Centre (IFSC), the truth is that this idea of IFSC the method of delivery, we are able to confirm that we are is not neglected just like the many ideas which came not discontinuing it because Government does not have before it. We should find ways to implement. We should money, we want to consider other ways we can utilise realise that all our policies should be related. When laws to build houses. Let me give an example, when we build have different purposes but try to do the same thing, a hospital, we also build the accommodation for nurses. people are not going to understand what we are trying to

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achieve. When we stand up and say this is how we want better position to apply for a bank licence so that they Batswana to be, then someone says, ‘I am bringing my can also conduct banking as the first bank for Batswana. own money and this is how I wish to do things.’ Laws We want to make it a bank that will be focused on should communicate with each other so that they can agriculture. allow for interaction between the locals and someone This issue of overdesign is important. There are many who is bringing their goods into our country. things that we can do with less money in our economy. This issue of corruption Honourable Majaga, is an Like Honourable Reatile was saying, most of us are important one. We have talked about it and let me given guidance and we have learned… relate it to the one that was brought up by Honourable MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Dr Matsheka, Ramogapi talking about the P100 billion and so on. The there is a hand from Honourable Healy. truth is that we have to ensure that all the ministries that are responsible do their job; maybe they should DR MATSHEKA: …(Inaudible)… come to your committees and explain to you how they MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you Mr work because we are not supposed to pressurise the Chairperson. Thank you Honourable Minister. Sir, lawmakers. We should also see if we cannot review whilst you are still on the one about Botswana Savings these ministries as Parliament, as maybe they are many Bank (BSB), Honourable Matsheka, this is one of the and they are overlapping like parastatals. It is up to you few parastatals that are doing very well. The challenge as Parliament to review these things. is that it seems the Government does not support this The other issue that you talked about Honourable bank much. I mean you will find that things like student Majaga is that we should see what we can do so that allowances, things that are within our control, are being the role of the Government is increased. Botswana done by commercial banks while we have a bank that is Development Corporation (BDC) is the investment arm owned by the Government. In many other instances, you of the Government. Right now we have decided to utilise will find that Botswana Post owes BSB a lot of money it a lot to get involved in businesses which we see that, it which is going to lead to BSB now coming to you to seems like we are not able to achieve a lot from. That is request for funds, rather than having what is rightfully theirs being paid. So what are you doing to make sure the idea that you are talking about Honourable Majaga that some parastatals do not cripple those under your asking how we are going to return BDC to its initial watch? How much are you doing to support a bank like role. It is the one which formed Air Botswana. Maybe BSB as I have given an example that maybe it could be separating it from Air Botswana is what has delayed us. disbursing student allowances? I thank you sir. So we are going to review all these things so that we can determine how we can ensure that Batswana and these DR MATSHEKA: Thank you Honourable Healy for building companies form partnerships with companies talking about this issue because it was the Government’s owned by Batswana so that we can be able to capacitate decision for BSB to be given a role to pay the elderly them to deliver projects like that. pension, knowing that it is a bank that belongs to Batswana and it even reaches the rural areas. I was There is an issue of Special Economic Zones Authority in Palapye when they were opening a branch, and (SEZA) that was mentioned by Honourable Moagi. It another one in Hukuntsi; they opened branches there is true that institutions like SEZA are important and we and they continue expanding their footprint. Now this should ensure that… as I came to Parliament when we is the beginning of looking into services that could were talking about Orapa House, I believe that work be rendered by institutions like BSB, knowing that it is still ongoing at the Ministry for Presidential Affairs can render such a service. I have also captured it here to try to make Orapa House do what we instructed as that they are looking into technology to improve their Parliament. services, because they can provide more services on the platform as BSB. Therefore, we would be looking into The issue of Botswana Savings Bank (BSB), I wrote such things so that we would be able to see what we can on today’s paper that BSB is opening branches. That is do to… the bank for Batswana. That is the bank that will allow pensioners to borrow money. Maybe they will continue MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Kapinga, to expand their services in places where there are no Honourable Dr Matsheka, let me talk to the Honourable banks. We believe that if that is the case, it may be in a Member here; he is not wearing a jacket.

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HONOURABLE MEMBER: Call him to order sir. Right now when we talk about VAT, we have an estimate of how much we can get from there. When we talk about HONOURABLE MEMBER: Doctor, do not forget the the issue of fuel, we have an estimate as to how much one on Botswana Post dragging down BSB. we can collect.

DR MATSHEKA: Yes, in that manner we would be I have also explained that the VAT that we charge, considering which other areas we can engage the BSB. almost 60 per cent is actually exempted. It is funds I have mentioned that we want to work with it so that which people at the bottom are not paying; they are it would come to a state whereby it is able to apply for not paying VAT. We have a limit even for water used the Banking Licence at Bank of Botswana, and become by Botswana Housing Corporation (BHC) that when the first bank which we know that Batswana can run to one has used so many litres, in the BHC metre, VAT as they work. is not charged. Therefore, there are staple foods that we know Batswana consume; they do not pay VAT for This issue of BSB funds at Botswana Post is on the table, them. This 14 per cent is different for a person who buys we are dialoguing about it with the relevant ministry so expensive food from Woolworths, buying bread made that we can ensure that these funds could be taken back from crumbs, which has raisins in it. This person spends to where they belong. I am glad you have managed to more money in a shop. Therefore, for us to differentiate raise this point because it is very important that one these two people we have to exempt some from tax, and parastatal should not cripple another. some will be included.

The other important issue Honourable Healy is that There are some people who drink expensive alcohol, we can use the Government balance sheet to support sweet drinks…(Inaudible)…they have to pay tax which the private sector. Right now, we are giving money to is commensurate with the sweetness of the food they are students. I have given an example that if you want to eating. There is food which is bought by those people build houses through the Public Private Partnership who can afford, and you know that we are going to (PPP) we are talking about, you come to us and say, collect a lot of revenue from those people, rather than “when you pay for students, when you pay for their collecting from those we refer to as the poor. accommodation as well, we do not know where they The issue of 50 per cent of vacancies… are staying, they do not have resources, the environment from which they are waking up, where do they wake up MR RAMOGAPI: On a point of clarification. I thank from,” and then it would be said build houses for them, you Honourable Minister. I just wanted to understand student studios. Then for such houses the Government you clearly sir; so are you saying someone who is would know that they are going to take P200 million struggling out there, who is trying their best, when they to pay these ones. That is to support private sector. buy a Honda Fit, they will not pay tax? I want to get that Therefore, I mean it is important that when we talk one clearly. about such things, we put them in a context of looking DR MATSHEKA: I said I do not know how much at our economic policy framework although Honourable such an individual is making an effort; hence, they are Kekgonegile says no; this free-market economics might going to pay tax for the Honda Fit. It is a choice between create challenges for us. buying a Honda Fit or opening a different business. There are different ways Honourable Ramogapi, which Now coming to Honourable Ramogapi, the issue of we can cite as examples, to show that on average… Value Added Tax (VAT), I heard Honourable Letsholo (Interruptions)… mentioning it; it is a very important issue. You have to decide that even when you calculate your tax base or Now let me come to the issue of vacant posts. Honourable the universe as we call it, you have to decide whether Members, I have explained this point that… you want to tax everything. There are simple taxes that you are to start with. So all the taxes that are done in MR GREEFF: On a point of clarification. I thank you this country even globally, are known. There is no tax Honourable Minister who also happens to be my friend that is not known that exists in the world. What is there from Bandleng (Lobatse). Please clarify something here is the level of development of your country, looking at for me Dr Matsheka; what are you saying about the issue the taxes which you can introduce at any particular time. whereby most companies owned by the foreigners that

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operate here, do not pay tax? We should look closely Disposal Board (PPADB) issue and the Accountant at the Chinese, because last time when I was moving and Financial Management Bills which we passed. around Gaborone West Industrial that side, I noticed Everything is going to be done to ensure that workers that many of them do not pay tax. Does this not mean have skills or capabilities to carry out these exercises. the fact that they are not paying tax is resulting in the The problem is that we often complain that the law is not shortage of the revenue we could have collected, and facilitating. When you pay close attention to this, you now this shortage has resulted in the VAT increment, will realise that maybe workers do not have resources having it going up to 14 per cent? Maybe I should ask and skills to do these things which is a drawback and no what you are going to do with this, making sure that matter what we do, we always have these challenges. I everybody who does business here pays tax Honourable would like to ask the Minister if they have done enough Minister. I thank you. preparations to ensure that when laws pertaining to these rationalisation and retrenchment processes are put DR MATSHEKA: I thank you Honourable Greeff. It in place, we would have people who have those skills is indeed true, we have also explained in the Economic and competencies. Recovery and Transformation Plan (ERTP) and in the Budget Statement I presented that Botswana Unified DR MATSHEKA: Thank you. If I hear you clearly, Revenue Services (BURS), is in progress, as we gave an the truth of the matter is that training and development example of Rwanda, that we are now looking for ways of people is a continuous process. In that way, as we in which everybody who has registered as a taxpayer are drafting this new law, the main aim is to devolve should be given a BURS machine, which the tax funds or to give the authority because there is no point of would go through, going straight to BURS. It is also having Accounting Officers who do not have authority true that not paying tax forces us to find other ways of or whereby officers point at one another when it comes taxing people. In that way, we will be coming back to to doing the job. We are saying no, they should brief you again next year to show you other things that are everyone about their roles, that they should take going to be taxed and maybe next time we are going to tax big companies. At this point in time, our main focus responsibility for the budget of their ministry so that is to assess the levies that we have proposed in order to instances whereby people…as we are saying, we want implement them. PPADB to be an oversight authority, which provides quality assurance on top of what is happening at the When I go back to the issue pertaining to 50 per cent of key ministries. We believe that for the training and the vacancies, I would like to explain that I plead that when we look at this budget, you should pay attention to transformation of skills to be as functional as we wish, all the ministries which are linked to what I am saying in it should be the main topic at those deliberations. this budget. Right now the issue of vacancies is directed The Honourable Members complained about to Ministry for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Government Accounting and Budgeting System Public Administration because that is where Directorate (GABS). it is indeed true that this System is giving us of Public Service Management (DPSM) is found. They sleepless nights and I explained on my presentation that are going to give you a report as Parliament about their we delayed to implement some services because GABS progress on this exercise which means that there is going to be a discussion regarding endorsement. was down. We are doing everything that we can together with Ministry of Mineral Resources, Green Technology MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, there is a and Energy Security to ensure that GABS pursues the request for clarification by Honourable Makwinja. mandate that it is established to pursue.

DR MATSHEKA: Okay, please go ahead. We appointed a consultant, and he assisted us to develop it. You will notice that nowadays it is better than before, MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Makwinja, go but we wish that the situation can be solved instead of ahead. improving it. The other thing that we are focusing on, ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION maybe Honourable Segokgo will address it, it is an issue (MS MAKWINJA): Clarification. Thank you pertaining to duplication of technology issues and their Honourable, thank you Mr Chairperson. I am expenditure. It is one of the things that we are looking commenting on the Public Procurement and Asset into, in order to see how we are going to address them.

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When I move on to issues which were raised by When I go back and look at my notes, most of the Honourable Buti Billy, no, it is indeed true that we issues which were raised were in relation to revenue have to implement this law to protect Batswana when it collection, decentralisation in which we give Councils comes to procurements and to participate in the budget. the authority to collect revenue. As Honourable Molale We cannot come up with a budget and then send it is explaining, it is indeed true that we cannot deprive to other countries, we have to be very deliberate and Councils of funds and also tie their hands. We should ensure that Batswana are the ones who benefit from the give them the green light to collect revenue. In that way, wealth of their country. we are going to try and speed this process so that soon when we go to the Councils to inform them that they I believe that Minister Serame will address the issue are now in a position to … this time around we have pertaining to shops; the issue of fat cakes which are reduced funds a little so that they can start the planning being sold in chain stores at Mahalapye, on whether we programme and see what they have to do. should carry on like that. It is one of the issues that are going to be explained. The issue of consultancies Honourable Letsholo, which is in relation to Public Private Partnership (PPP)… State Owned Enterprises (SOEs); I explained that their Studies have been carried out by International Monetary mandates overlap, we set a timeline in order to speed Fund (IMF) about the potential of PPP in the economy processes to see what we can do. We believe that when but you will find that every time there is a shortage we hurry to address this issue Honourable Letsholo, out of…it is not only one consultant, those funds are for of the savings that are there, we will be able to finance consultancies as when they are required to advise us this process, because the sooner we deal with it, the more when it comes to a certain project. I also explained savings we will have. We have not specifically provided that, not every project requires PPP, there are some for those because as I said, we want to accelerate, and straightforward projects which will specifically be for hurry this process and we will certainly be able to deal the Government while some will require partnership with that. This will also be determined by the form of between the Government and investors. So, consultants rationalisation and the total impact. It is much better are the ones who are going to assist us to assess to budget as we did, we have allocated funds to these proposals. I also explained that we are going to come up parastatals, funds which they have been using because with expressions of interest whereby the investor will as I explained last time, we do not disburse it all for tell us how much he or she is going to come with, how the whole year. We disburse it looking at bank balance many workers he or she is going to come with and ways of each and every institution to see how much they in which he or she intends to make money. That will have and that is when we can say, “no, you are on the give us an opportunity to take a decision regarding how right track, continue paying salaries.” when we notice we are going to carry out the project. that they have shortage of funds, we give them some funds. Most of it would not be disbursed, we would be The issue pertaining to the Financial Intelligence monitoring their statuses. Agency (FIA) building is important. We were talking about certain institutions, where we have to expand As for the P10 million issue, I know that the numbers of people and make sure we comply with implementation of this law is ongoing at PPADB Financial Action Task Force (FATF) procedures in order Honourable Member, it would be important for us to to provide secure environments and so forth. This whole request a specific report to Parliament, so that we can be process has long been started Honourable Member, the able to see their progress; how many institutions, how work is very advanced, in fact, it is complete they were many P10 million tenders were actually placed in the just waiting for us to sit. You will realise that funds market, how many were given Batswana? So that we which we are talking about are not enough to construct also provide that oversight, because sometimes when a building fit enough to be a headquarters of Financial it is like this, you will come across the statement in Intelligence. The requirements that we are looking at which they would be saying that they are still consulting stakeholders. We should say no, Parliament has made a and comparing to other countries require us to create a decision. Honourable Letsholo, we will get a report, so secure environment which will not make us compromise that all these people are held accountable to know that records that we would be getting from people, looking it was not a matter of thinking about what they can do. at how they claim to make money.

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MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Minister, just wind up and move.

DR MATSHEKA: Mr Chairperson, I therefore, move that the sum of P966,924,720 for the Recurrent Budget and P416,594,304 for the Development Budget stand as part of the Schedule and Estimates. I thank you Mr Chairperson.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Order! Order! Honourable Members, now we are going to vote.

CLERK:

MEMBER’S NAME AYE NO ABSTAIN ABSENT His Excellency Dr Mokgweetsi Eric Keabetswe Masisi √ Honourable Kgotla Kenneth Autlwetse √ Honourable Mpho Balopi √ Honourable Yandani Boko √ Honourable Sam Justice Brooks √ Honourable Honest Buti Billy √ Honourable Dr Edwin Gorataone Dikoloti √ Honourable Dr Unity Dow √ Honourable Karabo Socraat Gare √ Honourable Dr Kesitegile Gobotswang √ Honourable Christian Greeff √ Honourable Kainangura Caterpillar Hikuama √ Honourable Liakat Kablay √ Honourable Kenny Kapinga √ Honourable Goretetse Kekgonegile √ Honourable Dithapelo Lefoko Keorapetse √ Honourable Philda Kereng √ Honourable Mmusi Kgafela √ Honourable Tshekedi Stanford Khama √ Honourable Dr Lemogang Kwape √ Honourable Leepetswe Lesedi √ Honourable Sethomo Lelatisitswe √ Honourable Aubrey Lesaso √ Honourable Dr Douglas Letsholathebe √ Honourable Thapelo Letsholo √ Honourable Friction Tshoganetso Leuwe √ Honourable Taolo Boipuso Lucas √ Honourable Polson Majaga Honourable Nnaniki Wilhemina Tebogo Makwinja √ Honourable Beauty Manake √ Honourable Tumisang Mangwegape-Healy √ Honourable Baratiwa Mathoothe √ Honourable Dr Thapelo Matsheka √ Honourable Wynter Boipuso Mmolotsi

48 Hansard No 201 Thursday 4th March, 2021 ORGANISATION 0300-MINISTRY OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate)

MEMBER’S NAME AYE NO ABSTAIN ABSENT Honourable Kagiso Thomas Mmusi √ Honourable Simon Nkosana Moabi Honourable Lefoko Maxwell Moagi √ Honourable Pono Pearson Parson Moatlhodi Honourable Setlhabelo Nasser Modukanele √ Honourable Anna Maria Mokgethi √ Honourable Eric Mothibi Molale √ Honourable Fidelis McDonald Molao √ Honourable Molebatsi Shimane Molebatsi Honourable Talita Monnakgotla √ Honourable Kabo Neal Sechele Morwaeng √ Honourable Mokwaledi Ignatius Moswaane √ Honourable Palelo Keitseope Motaosane √ Honourable Motsamai Gabantema Jelson Motsamai Honourable Dumezweni Meshack Mthimkhulu Honourable Kefentse Mzwinila √ Honourable Kgoberego Nkawana √ Honourable Tumiso MacDonald Rakgare √ Honourable Onneetse Ramogapi √ Honourable Mephato Reatile √ Honourable Oabile Regoeng √ Honourable Dumelang Saleshando Honourable Thulagano Merafhe Segokgo √ Honourable Peggy Serame √ Honourable Machana Ronald Shamukuni √ Honourable Johane L. Thiite √ Honourable Dr Never Tshabang √ Honourable David Tshere √ Honourable Slumber Tsogwane √

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Members, it means we should go back to Honourable Kablay and Honourable Kapinga because they had technical problems. …Silence…

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Kapinga and Honourable Kablay, is it possible for you to vote through a chat, because you seem to be having technical problems? If you can, send a chat. Honourable Kapinga, I can see “Aye”. Honourable Kablay, can you ask technical people to assist you. It means it is absent.

I am now counting the votes. Order! Order! Honourable Members, here are the results of the vote;

Aye - 41

No - 1

Abstain-1

Absent -20

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Then that means the “Ayes” have it, the “Ayes” have it. Mr Chairperson, in response to the COVID-19 pandemic impact on businesses, short and medium to long Question put and agreed to. term interventions were drawn to relieve and sustain ORGANISATION 0700-MINISTRY OF businesses during the pandemic. These included the P40 INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY million Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA) Emergency Response Fund, and a P50 million MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Members, without Contingency Fund under Botswana Development any waste of time, we are moving to the next Committee Corporation (BDC). of Supply statement by Investment, Trade and Industry, Organisation 0700. Mr Chairperson, the CEDA Emergency Response Honourable Members, please not that 2 hours 25 Fund was launched in May to fund businesses that minutes have been allocated to this Organisation, and I were adversely affected by the pandemic with working shall call upon the Honourable Minister to reply to the capital. The agency has funded 59 citizen-owned debates at 1530hours tomorrow. The question will be businesses to the tune of P32.8 million as at January put at 1600 hours. I now call upon the Minister… 2021. Similarly, Letlhabile also launched in May 2020, was created solely to assist the informal sector. To date HONOURABLE MEMBER: Tomorrow there is no under Letlhabile, a total of 6,769 informal businesses Parliament Mr Chairperson. to the value of P31.4 million have been assisted, in the HONOURABLE MEMBER: Tomorrow is Friday… process sustaining 7,107 jobs. (Laughter!)… Industry Support Facility (ISF) MR CHAIRPERSON: When I say tomorrow, I know that in my mind I am referring to Monday. Thank you Mr Chairperson, in November 2020, Government for that correction Honourable Members. That will be introduced a medium to long term Economic Recovery on Monday because tomorrow is Private Member’s and Transformation Plan (ERTP). Under that, the Day. I can see that you are now rising on your feet. I Industry Support Facility (ISF) was created, of shall now call upon the Minister of Investment, Trade which P700, 000,000 (Seven Hundred Million) was and Industry to present. Honourable Peggy Serame. appropriated to my ministry, P100 million for Local ORGANISATION 0700 – MINISTRY OF Enterprise Authority (LEA), P300 million for CEDA INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY and BDC each.

MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND To date Mr Chairperson, LEA has assisted 10,074 INDUSTRY (MS SERAME): Thank you Mr informal sector enterprises with P1, 000 grant, valued Chairperson. Good afternoon Honourable Members. Mr at P10.07 million. Chairperson, I am pleased to stand before this August Committee to present my budget proposals for the As at the end of January 2021, CEDA approved 20 ISF 2021/2022 financial year. applications valued at P4.4 million, while BDC has approved two projects each at P25 million, bringing the Mr Chairperson, I wish to give highlights of my total to P50 million. ministry’s performance in the current financial year and an overview of implementation of policies, projects and Registration of SMMEs programmes going into 2021/2022. Mr Chairperson, the absence of a clear approach in Mr Chairperson, my ministry facilitated the creation of reaching out to the informal sector has necessitated my 10,951 jobs against an annual target of 11,400. Overall, ministry to embark on a registration exercise for Small, Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) was P773.56 million against a target of P2.3 billion, and a total of P1.816 Medium and Micro Enterprises (SMMEs). The first billion in Domestic Investment against an annual target phase of the SMME registration which started in April of P3.5 billion. In addition Mr Chairperson, my ministry 2020 resulted with 37,329 SMMEs. A further 10,645 facilitated 532 business start-ups against an annual SMMEs were registered through online platforms, target of 1,015. bringing the total number registered to 47,974.

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Market Access Mr Chairperson, the Cooperative Transformation Strategy also promotes the participation of youth in In the current financial year, market access has been the Cooperative Enterprise Model. In this regard Mr secured for some SMMEs, which has supplied goods Chairperson, we are collaborating with Ministry of to the value of P43.2 million as at December 2020. Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development. Subsequent to the introduction of SMMEs to the They have funded four youth cooperatives to the tune of national retailers, the SMMEs have been assisted to P2.5million in Zutshwa, Moralane, Kgagodi and Maun. meet the listing requirements and to supply the retailers. This has resulted in a 585 per cent growth of revenue Mr Chairperson, we are also collaborating with a number realised from market linkages. Mr Chairperson, the of stakeholders; Debswana, Barloworld, Kumatsu and facilitation of market linkages is an ongoing process to Majwe Mining to implement a Supply Development unlock opportunities for more SMMEs to access new Programme (SDP). The objective of this programme markets. is to provide market access for locally produced goods and services, and mentoring of SMMEs. To date, a 100 Mr Chairperson, we continue to experience growth in SMMEs have been enrolled under this programme. diversity and quality of locally manufactured products. In this regard, my ministry has intensified promotion INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT and accessibility of locally manufactured products Mr Chairperson, we continue to implement measures through the #PushaBW campaign. Mr Chairperson, I designed to encourage and grow the local industry. am happy to report that a #PushaBW product catalogue Under this, we will continue to implement a number of has been developed, listing a total of 110 companies and Statutory Instruments (SI). Such instruments include the over 500 products. one on milling of wheat and wheat products, as well as Mr Chairperson, in order to enter into a new growth path textiles. and shed the depressing image occasioned by COVID-19, Further Mr Chairperson, during the period under review, we are compelled to come up with innovative ways to BDC undertook a transaction to acquire a 60 per cent be resilient and to bolster our country’s presence and stake in Pasdec. This is a manufacturer of automotive good image on the international scene. In this regard, electrical harnesses. The investment will result in an my ministry will launch a series of initiatives, mainly in additional 200 jobs over and above the current 664 our rural areas aimed at stimulating the local economic employed. activity, while at the same time stepping up Global Brand Marketing and Outreach. The first of such an event will Mr Chairperson, Milk Afric, another flagship project be a first of its kind to showcase locally manufactured has experienced some delays in its implementation, but goods and agricultural products, as well as our local we are currently looking for a technical partner. It is our fashion to be held in an open farm/rural setting in April/ expectation that the project will commence its operation May 2021. Meanwhile, the Forbes Under 30 Summit in June 2021. will be held later in the year in Gaborone and Kasane. Leather Park

ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT We expect that the adjudication and award of the Since the launch of the revised CEDA Guidelines in July construction of the tender for the Leather Park industry last year, CEDA has approved loans amounting to P452 in Lobatse will be concluded by March 2021, after million, funding 5,456 businesses, and in the process which construction will commence. In addition, five creating 7,362 jobs. Mr Chairperson, there are currently leather collection points have been established in 131 active cooperatives across different sectors of the Gaborone, Francistown, Palapye, Hukuntsi and Rakops. economy in Botswana. In the current financial year, we In addition, 63 individuals have been contracted to have registered a total of 13 cooperatives, creating 100 collect and develop leather to these collection points jobs in the process. Among these, I want to highlight from areas where they are non-existent. two of these cooperatives which are in production; one Mr Chairperson, the Gambling Authority in partnership being the Chobe Basket Weavers Cooperative Union, as with Botswana Innovation Hub has funded the starting well as the Matute-a-Mongongo in the Okavango Sub- of a gaming lab for the development of electronic games District. by our youth.

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The Competition and Consumer Protection Act of laws. One such law is the Trade Act, which since its implementation in June 2020, 876 Trade Licences and Mr Chairperson, the Competition and Consumer 3, 370 Registration Certificates were issued within an Tribunal has been set up in January 2020 resulting in the average of one day. On the manufacturing side, since adjudication function being successfully separated from implementation in June 2020, 16 companies have been the governing body (the board). licenced also within one day. This is comparing to what Development and use of National Standards we used to have in the past where committees were sitting in a weekly basis. Mr Chairperson, the Botswana Bureau of Standards Online Business Registration System (OBRS) (BOBS) developed a total of 121 Botswana Standards out of which one was a Compulsory specification. In The OBRS system which was launched in June 2019 addition, as at the end of December 2020, BOBS had is expected to be fully completed and commissioned certified five new organisations, while one existing by the end of March 2021. In addition, to improve organisation has extended its scope of certification by data integrity, companies and business names were re- adding one new product license. registered the 2nd December 2020. As at the 6th January 2021, there are 130, 627 and 40, 849 actively registered INVESTMENT PROMOTION companies and business names, respectively. Botswana Investment & Trade Centre (BITC) has TRADE DEVELOPMENT facilitated total investment to the tune of P1.30 billion from April to December 2020 in the process creating Mr Chairperson, we have facilitated companies to 1, 089 jobs. Mr Chairperson, my ministry has an achieve BWP2.19 billion worth of export sales between investment pipeline to the tune of BWP 1.08 billion, April and December 2020. We also revised and launched which is expected to convert over the next few months the Botswana Exporter Development Programme creating over 3 000 job opportunities. (BEDP) in October 2020. Further, we continues to negotiate and implement Meanwhile my ministry has launched major investment various Trade arrangements. I will just highlight two; the projects during the year including expansion project SACU and Mozambique-United Kingdom Economic by Kromberg and Schubert factory in Gaborone, at the Partnership Agreement (SACUM-UK EPA) came into value of BWP100 million and it is expected to create force the 1st of January 2021 and under this agreement an additional 1 000 jobs. Another project launched in we were able to secure similar trade turns for SACU December was the Citrus project in the SPEDU area and Mozambique as we would have enjoyed if we were with an investment value of BWP300 million expected under the EU-SADAC EPA. to create 1, 500 new jobs. Another one is the African Continental Free Trade Area SPEDU Revitalization (AfCFTA) which we signed in 2019 but we are yet to Mr Chairperson, as part of implementation of the ratify Mr Chairperson because there are a number of SPEDU incentives, 23 companies have been approved outstanding issues relating to rules of origin. We expect for Tax Relief Incentive, while 22 have been issued with this to be concluded in June 2021. Government Off-take Agreement certificates. African Growth and Opportunity Act Meanwhile, the construction of the Plaatjan Bridge is Mr Chairperson , there are a number of initiatives complete and it is open for use. Mr Chairperson, we including the construction of the Gumare Basket are currently sourcing funding for the construction of Storage facility which has been completed and handed a 30-kilometre Lekkerport- Plaatjan road linking the over to Ngwao Boswa Trust in October 2020. Another bridge to serviced roads between Bobirwa and Selebi- project include Chobe Basket which has registered their Phikwe. trademark in January 2021. DOING BUSINESS AND COMPETITIVENESS Mr Chairperson, the National E-Commerce Strategy Mr Chairperson, ease of doing business continues to be will be launched in April 2021 during the United Nations one of the priorities of Government. We have completed Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) E- a number of reforms during the year including the review Commerce week.

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Special Economic Zones Recurrent Budget Proposals for 2021/2022

We have gazetted four Special Economic Zones (SEZs) The proposed 2021/2022 Recurrent Budget estimates and the remaining four will be gazetted this financial Nine Hundred and Seventy-Five Million, Twenty- year. Further to this Mr Chair, my ministry is engaging Nine Thousand, Four Hundred and Sixty Pula (P975, Botswana Ash (Pty) Ltd and Local Authorities in Sowa 029,460), representing a decrease of 4 per cent from Town regarding the establishment of an SEZ in Sowa. this year’s allocation. A significant decrease in the Recurrent Budget occurred under budget allocation for LAWS AND POLICIES UNDER REVIEW the ministry’s Parastatal Organisations. We will present the Economic Inclusion Bill (EIB) Mr Chairperson, the ministry’s Parastatal Organisations in July because we had to wait for the review of the account for 77 per cent of the Recurrent budget Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Act. Further, amounting to Seven Hundred and Forty-Eight Million, we are developing two policies which is the Intellectual Three Hundred and Fifty-Eight Thousand, Five Property Policy and the National Quality Policy for Hundred and Seventy Pula (P748, 358,570), leaving Botswana. the ministry’s five departments with a total allocation of Two Hundred and Twenty-Six Million, Six Hundred BUDGET UTILISATION DURING 2020/2021 and Seventy Thousand, Eight Hundred and Ninety Pula Mr Chairperson, The 2020/2021 budget allocation for (P226, 670,890) or 23 per cent. both the Recurrent and Development Expenditures is Mr Chairperson, Two Hundred and Twenty-Six Million, One Billion, One Hundred and Thirty-Five Million, Six Hundred and Seventy Thousand, Eight Hundred and Eight Hundred and Sixty-Four Thousand and Thirty Ninety Pula (P226, 670,890) for the departments, of that Pula (P1, 135,864,030). Out of this budget, One Billion figure 63 per cent goes to personnel emoluments while and Ten Million, Four Hundred and Fourteen Thousand, the remaining 37 per cent goes to other operational and Thirty Pula (P1, 010,414,030) is for Recurrent charges. Budget, while One Hundred and Twenty Five Million, Development Budget Proposals for 2021/2022 Four Hundred and Fifty Thousand Pula (P125, 450,000) Mr Chairperson, the 2021/2022 Development Budget is for the development budgeted. proposal for the ministry is Two Hundred and Ninety- Recurrent Budget Seven Million, Two Hundred Thousand Pula (P297, 200, 000). This represents an increase of One hundred 88 per cent of the budget provision had been spent as at and Seventy One million, Seven Hundred and Fifty 2nd March, 2021. Thousand pula (P171, 750,000) or 137 per cent from the current year’s budget. The proposed budget under Development Budget development mainly goes to infrastructure projects of Leather Industry Park in Lobatse and Pandamatenga A total of 74 per cent of the budget provision has been Grain Storage Facilities. spent as at 2nd March, 2021. Mr Chairperson, this concludes my presentation for BUDGET PROPOSALS FOR 2021/2022 the 2021/2022 budget proposals for my ministry. I therefore move that the sum of One Billion, Two Mr Chairperson, I now present budget proposals of my Hundred and Seventy-Two Million, Two Hundred and ministry for the Financial Year 2021/2022. The proposed Twenty-Nine Thousand, Four Hundred and Sixty Pula (P1,272,229,460), which comprises of Nine Hundred budget for the Financial Year 2021/2022 amounts to One and Seventy-Five Million, Twenty-Nine Thousand, Billion, Two Hundred and Seventy-Two Million, Two Four Hundred and Sixty Pula (P975,029,460), under the Hundred and Twenty-Nine Thousand, Four Hundred Recurrent Budget and Two Hundred and Ninety-Seven and Sixty Pula (P1, 272,229,460). This figure represents Million, Two Hundred Thousand Pula (P297, 200, 000) a net increase of One Hundred and Thirty-Six Million, under the Development Budget for Organisation 0700 Three Hundred and Sixty-Five Thousand, Four Hundred be approved and stand part of the Estimates for the and Thirty Pula (P136, 365,430) or 12 per cent from the Financial Year 2021/2022. I move accordingly. I thank current year’s budget. you Mr Chairperson.

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MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND see to it that these funds are going to be diverted to SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Chair. Let certain businesses, considering the challenges which the me also thank you for having given me an opportunity country has been facing, such as lack of jobs, which is to comment on Honourable Minister Peggy Serame’s a challenge we are experiencing in our constituencies, presentation. Madam, we thank you for the presentation like Gabane-Mmankgodi. We want to see jobs created you have made before us. I support you because I can there. I request that you should collaborate. The funds see the many programmes you are doing. I do realise that which Honourable Matsheka requested last year in you have been facing difficulties because this was not a September or the Bill he presented, Parliament gave good year for business. We were hit by the COVID-19 him a go ahead to go and source funds, at the end this pandemic, and this was hard for our businesses, is going to manifest as businesses that you will have to especially small ones. I appreciate the funds you issued run. As you dialogue with him, take a note of projects from especially Citizen Entrepreneurial Development that can employ Batswana and those that can generate Agency (CEDA) and Botswana Development revenue into the country, so that our economy can Corporation (BDC) to try to assist local businesses. start to function. I believe if we could err somewhere in the ERTP and not grasp it well, we might end up in Minister, as the funds are released to go to CEDA, trouble. I believe you and Dr Matsheka could have long when we give them to businesses, assisting them, we collaborated by now, planning for this country to ensure should take them step by step because when you look that our businesses work together. at the newspapers, everyday you find companies that are owned by Batswana which we do not register I am glad because I saw that you wrote something about easily, having their equipment being repossessed. Their Sua Pan. Botswana Ash worried me a lot, that as a possessions would be repossessed by CEDA and others, Government, can we not see the potential at Botswana and it would be shown in the papers. Let us try by all Ash. I am happy because you said that you are looking means to be patient with them, and give them a chance at it. I request that you should look at it because I believe of tying to be independent. They should encourage Botswana Ash; the Sua Pan salt can be one of the themselves so that their businesses could be self- industries that can transform this country, and produce sufficient. You are going to discover that most Batswana different products there and create jobs in different are engaging in business for the first time. It would be sectors. Salt is something that is used everyday and a new phenomenon to them, and they would still be we can see several packaging plants being established, learning the ropes. When we lend them the funds, we those that are supported by Botswana. should be patient and try to empower them. This is what I wanted to request that we should support Batswana. I will go back to CEDA. Our offices at the ministry are There is hunger out there, it is not easy, and we can see near CEDA. I have observed that every morning the that businesses are struggling. As I was saying, we can queues are long. Maybe you should find a system that see in the newspapers that Batswana are having their can help Batswana to apply for loans to try to stimulate belongings repossessed; small businesses included. their businesses. I wish CEDA could uphold this, work on this tirelessly. We are living in difficult times. You We appreciate what your ministry is doing. It is a broad are the one who generates income; Dr Matsheka is the ministry. It starts right with men and women who one who distributes it. Your sector is going to generate cook food in the streets, those who sell sweets up to revenue, and you have been hearing us talking about multinationals. Therefore, I can see that indeed your tax collection, and so forth. They would be coming ministry is broad, it is big and you work with a very from the businesses you would have created. You are broad spectrum of business people but you are really their custodian and you are the one who can make trying. I just wanted to remind you of one thing. I was the environment conducive for the investors to come looking at Honourable Matsheka’s presentation, and I through and for local business people to grow. That is thought I would comment, but I could not. I believe this the one I wished for, that going forward, once the budget Economic Recovery and Transformation Plan (ERTP) has been passed, you and Honourable Matsheka should affects you. This means getting funds to stimulate the collaborate very well, we should see you working for economy. At the end of it all, these funds will end up this country so that you would be able to transform the doing business. I would like to encourage that you situation as it is now. That is the only comment I wanted could be collaborating with Honourable Matsheka to to put across, and I would like to echo that I support you

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Minister in your budget. Keep up your job and the major MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Mathoothe, do not projects I am seeing. Make sure that they are not only address side remarks; I have given you the floor. Go into projects; they should become profitable, create jobs and your debate, your time was reserved. sustain this country. There is diversification that we MR MATHOOTHE: Mr Chairperson, let me start with need. We know that our country has been depending the issue of MilkAfric. MilkAfric was long talked about entirely on diamonds but this is the transformation that by the former Minister Mr Kedikilwe but even to date, we are bringing to place. I am encouraging you that we it has not yet started. Will Minister Matsheka also end should keep doing that. up completing his term at Lobatse before this project Mr Chairperson, I just wanted to comment that much, commences? This is a very important project and when supporting Minister Serame in her budget presentation. I look at the statements that he has been making, saying Thank you. Thank you very much. that it is going to commence before June this year, maybe those are the words that we should hold on to MR MATHOOTHE (SEROWE NORTH): Thank and see if it will indeed commence before June this year. you Mr Chairperson. Let me start by appreciating that We strongly believe that it is one of the projects that can this presentation was done very well. The issue that I support the economy of Botswana. will start with, which I believe Honourable Serame is addressing very well is in regard to BDC, MilkAfric. Moving on, the other issue is that Minister Serame This issue was talked about a long time ago when there should keep an eye on every project that is carried out, was… more especially projects which are done by Botswana Development Corporation (BDC). As I speak, there is MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Mathoothe, there is a certain project which they were doing at Palapye, the a hand for a point of procedure by Honourable Manake. Fengyue Glass Factory. We are wondering what they ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL are intending to do with that place as budgets are being DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MS drafted. Maybe she should explain if they have left it MANAKE): Procedure. Thank you Mr Chairperson. and they are not intending to do anything about it. If Mr Chairperson, we have long raised our hands. they have left it like that, can they not consider giving Honourable Mathoothe is debating over and over again it to some Batswana owned companies who can use it yet we have long raised our hands my leader. Please, instead of it being left to house bats and owls? When have mercy on us! they continue to do developments, trying to revive the business industry, it is important for her to pay attention MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Manake, you will to this issue because that area was developed with the be the next. aim that it will assist Batswana at Serowe-Palapye Constituency with jobs. MS MANAKE: They have debated a lot Mr Chairperson. They have literally debated in every chapter, yet some When I look at the other point in which he explained of us have not had any chance to debate. I thank you Mr that they are going to start to look at the mines in Chairperson. Botswana so that they encourage them to buy the locally produced goods or from businesses which are owned by HONOURABLE MEMBER: The problem is your list. Batswana. This is a brilliant idea but they should not MR CHAIRPERSON: There is a way we do things look at the mines only. They should also pay attention Honourable Manake. Therefore, you will be the next, I to multimillion pula projects which are awarded to assure you. foreign companies. They should also pay attention to see which services can be provided by Batswana because MR MATHOOTHE: Mr Chairperson, I believe you sometimes you will find that Batswana can provide saved my time. Mr Chairperson… services which they are seeking. For example, when MR CHAIRPERSON: It is obvious; when someone you look at all water projects which are carried out at comes in through procedure, we stop the watch. Masama, there are some companies which offer pipe jetting and you will find that these projects are worth MR MATHOOTHE: Since the Committee of supply millions but they end up giving these projects to foreign started, I am only debating for the second time. There companies even though there might be some Batswana are those who… who can provide those services. When they implement

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developments to assist Batswana, these are some of the people to bring such applications. When she does this, parts that they have to pay attention to, so that this does next time when she makes a presentation, she will talk not only happen at the mines. about many jobs which they would have created.

As they revised guidelines like Citizen Entrepreneurial Mr Chairperson, let me stop right here. I believe that Development Agency (CEDA) guidelines, we are by far Peggy is doing a good job and Batswana are still grateful that they have been revised and there is a happy. Thank you Mr Chairperson. development taking place. As a Minister, she should analyse further to see if those requirements are quite MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Honourable friendly to Batswana and if they make it easy for them Members, let me correct something here. According to to start their own businesses. For example, there are the list that I have here from the ruling party, the first on some Batswana who want to rear cattle and they have the list was supposed to be Honourable Greeff, second applied. As they have applied, there is an issue that they was Honourable Pule who cannot debate today. Then have to submit the ecologist report which will assess Honourable Regoeng and Honourable Manake, so I pasture that is found in the area where they want to rear made a mistake Honourable Member. Forgive me, this that cattle. When poor Batswana try to come up with means that the next speaker will be Honourable Greeff. that report, they do not find people who can draft it HONOURABLE MEMBER: Where am I? and this means that a Motswana who was interested in buying cattle in order to participate in the meat industry, HONOURABLE MEMBER: Honourable Greeff ends up not getting this assistance. They have to pay agreed that I should take his slot Mr Chairperson. close attention to this issue because Batswana are cattle farmers and if they want to rear cattle and they are MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Greeff, are you not able to obtain those reports, this means that many there? Batswana who would like to rear cattle, small stock and HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is saying that he will chickens end up not being able to acquire funds which debate on Monday. you released and they do not benefit from their country. This is the point that I want you to pay attention to. You MR CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Honourable Manake, go should assess these guidelines at all times in order to see ahead. if they do not disadvantage Batswana anyhow. If that is the case, then it means that people who have money are HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ah, Mr Chairperson! the ones who are able to go outside the country to go and take people who can draft the report for them and ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL it means that the rich are getting richer and the poor are DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MS getting poorer. This is one of the issues that I want you MANAKE): Thank you Mr Chairperson... to pay attention to. MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Regoeng, are you As they are saying that they are giving Batswana funds, complaining? and maybe looking at the agriculture sector, you will find that in Botswana…maybe they should also do MR REGOENG: Yes, I am complaining. assessments. They should not just stay in one place, MR CHAIRPERSON: She is saying that they agreed they should go that side to see what is there. You will that instead of Manake … find that in Botswana, there are many farms which used to be state owned and as we speaker, they are not MR REGOENG: No, I am refusing. She should being utilised. If they are serious about developing the proceed, but after her it is me. agricultural sector, this is time for them to pay attention to issues like this. There is Sese Quarantine at my HONOURABLE MEMBER: Just fight, it is okay. constituency which is not being utilised. There is Lesego MR CHAIRPERSON: Can we ask Honourable Ranch and others, they are quite many in Mahalapye Manake, they are saying that they agreed, so this means and all over the country. These are some of the things …(Interruptions)… that they have to target and see how they can use those Government resources to assist Batswana. They should HONOURABLE MEMBER: Do not complicate leave their offices and go on site instead of waiting for things for us, just look at the list and make a ruling…

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HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Leader of the House, I am told that you have offended some people. I MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Manake, go ahead. am requesting you to withdraw.

MS MANAKE: Thank you Mr Chairperson. MR TSOGWANE: Yes sir. No, I hear you. Comparison Honourable Greeff agreed that he will take the floor is part of Setswana. When you compare things that are on Monday hence I should carry on with debate. Good different, that is Setswana and there is nowhere you are afternoon Honourable Members. Mr Chairperson, let offending anyone. me highlight that I support Honourable Serame… MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Leader of the HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Chairperson, on the House, I request that you withdraw the statement that chat; procedure. others are disorganised, maybe they could have just kept MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Leader of the quiet. That is offensive, I am asking you to withdraw. House, Honourable Vice President (VP). MR TSOGWANE: I can hear you Mr Chairperson, LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): My I said they should not be disorganised. So it is okay I procedure Mr Chairperson, I plead that the ruling party withdraw, they are very organised. should be organised. They should never behave like the MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Mmolotsi… opposition. They must be organised, there is always a list… MR TSOGWANE: Mr Chairperson, I am saying the opposition is very organised, as you see... HONOURABLE MEMBER: We do not behave like that… HONOURABLE MEMBER: That is sarcastic, it is not withdrawal. No! HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are not being respectful to us. MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Leader of the House, I made a ruling, let us not revisit it. HONOURABLE MEMBER: We do not behave like that, Domkrag members behave like that… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yes, he should not be sarcastic, he must just withdraw. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Kekgonegile. MR TSOGWANE: …you can just hear that the No, Honourable Mmolotsi, it seems like Honourable opposition is not organised. Kekgonegile raised his hand before you did, I did not see him. HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are not being HONOURABLE MEMBER: Okay. respectful to us. MR CHAIRPERSON: I do not know if he also wanted MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Leader of the to talk about the same thing because all of you will take House, that is not a point of procedure. that turn once, four of you.

MR TSOGWANE: I am confirming with Honourable MR KEKGONEGILE: No, you already made a ruling Kablay and Honourable Balopi. No one should harass on it Mr Chairperson, let us move on. Honourable Vice you and they have to notify you of the people who are President (VP) sometimes does things in an astonishing bringing lists to you. I thank you Mr Chairperson. way.

DR TSHABANG: On a point of order. Thank you Mr HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… Chairperson. I think the Honourable Vice President (VP) is making a big mistake, and is out of order to associate MR MMOLOTSI: Yes, Mr Chairperson, I was saying disorder of Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) with the because this behaviour is continuing, I was thinking that Opposition. We request that you should rebuke him for after the VP withdrew, you could have chased him away that disrespect, we did not interfere in their matters. because really that is not helping us, it is wasting our Thank you Mr Chairperson. time.

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MR CHAIRPERSON: No, I have already made a MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Manake, can you ruling, so now you are reviewing my ruling. We should go ahead? not allow that. MS MANAKE: Thank you Mr Chairperson. I think what MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, we should appreciate is that there is no disorganisation. SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR We should appreciate that people are excited about this RAKGARE): On a point of order. Mr Chairperson, I chapter, because it is the one that... am standing on a point of order by saying, even though you are indicating that Honourable VP is wrong, you MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Manake, do not should remember that earlier on Honourable Boko said discuss, do not review! people have shallow reasoning and I do not know how MS MANAKE: I am not discussing, I am debating. I is it... (Interruptions)… am debating, this is...

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ... (Interruptions!)… MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Manake, I will HONOURABLE MEMBER: You want to make stop you, I will stop you. yourself better before VP. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Chase her away, chase HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Interruptions!)… her away!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: We are still waiting for HONOURABLE MEMBER: It is the members of proof from you, he should bring the proof. Domkrag, there is a lot of chaos that side.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are wasting MR CHAIRPERSON: I am done with this. I have Honourable Manake’s time, her time is about to be up. made a ruling. Can you debate please?

MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Members, I told MS MANAKE: Mr Chairperson, let me say that I you that, Honourable Rakgare... support Honourable Serame in this chapter of hers, which is exciting and everyone wants to talk about. We HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Interruptions!)… are expecting a lot from it, by transforming our economy and the lives of many people. MR CHAIRPERSON: Hey! Listen up. Let me also thank Honourable Mmusi, who mentioned HONOURABLE MEMBER: We are wasting time, a very important issue that Honourable Serame and time is about to be up, time! He is passing time! the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Hikuama, can you should cooperate. He forgot the Ministry of Agriculture keep quiet. because countries like America and France, were developed by agriculture. We should also be there MR RAKGARE: Protect me from the bullies Mr because the things that I wished to talk about today, Chairperson. which we can focus on, looking at the things that they have already made good decisions on like the leather MR CHAIRPERSON: No, no, no, Honourable industry and the Statutory Instrument that are focused Rakgare, you are going to stop there. on wheat products, bakery products and textiles which MR RAKGARE: This is just bullying, it is evident and are associated with agriculture. We believe that those straightforward. Five men against me. are the things that can revive our economy to be in a good state. HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are disrespectful, you are disrespectful! Mr Chairperson, even though there is not enough time, let me talk about something that Honourable Serame HONOURABLE MEMBER: You want to make touched on, which is market access. Market access yourself better in front of the VP, you have long told right now Mr Chairperson, is a headache, especially him that he is learning and he does not know anything. our smallholder farmers and Small, Medium and Micro Enterprises (SMMEs), they are the ones that are still HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… struggling.

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I was elated when Honourable Dr Matsheka talked about the importance of the population census, that it is not an issue of elections or delimitation only, but it is an issue of understanding the socio-economy of Batswana and to understand how market trends can be established. Everything which we are going to produce as a country, who is going to consume it? At what cost? What are we looking at? So that we can actually make the necessary market segregation and segmentation. Let me point out that Statistics Botswana should start being closer to us as ministries, especially those ministries that are controlling the economy and they should provide us with data so that we can start utilising it, that is, data analysis should start being the key…

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, time is up! I now call upon the Leader of the House to move a Motion of adjournment.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Rakgare, are you saying these men are bullies?

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): I request that this house do now adjourn Honourable Members.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Honourable Rakgare you owe us proof.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, you should make it a habit that when the Speaker stands, you keep quiet please.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Now you are standing up, what is really going on?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: I am also wondering.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Speaker has stood up.

Question put and agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 6:06 p.m. until Friday 5th March, 2021 at 9:00 a.m.

Hansard No 201 59 HANSARD RECORDERS Mr. T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. D. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi, Ms N. Mokoka

HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa HANSARD TRANSLATORS Ms B. Ntisetsang, Ms M. Sekao, Ms B. Mosinyi, Ms V. Nkwane, Ms N. Kerobale, Ms K. Alepeng, Ms T. Motsau, Ms O. Phesodi, Mr K. Setswe

LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B. B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae

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