Antarctic Deep Freeze Oral History Project Interview with Donald C. Mehaffey, CAPT, SC USN (Ret.) conducted on March 30, 1999, by Dian O. Belanger

DOB: Today is the 30th of March, 1999. I'm Dian Belanger and I'm speaking with Donald Mehaffey about his experiences in Deep Freeze I in Antarctica.

Good afternoon, Don, and thanks so much for talking with me.

DM: Hi, Dian. Glad to see you again.

DOB: Begin by telling me just a little about your background, Don. I'm interested in where you grew up and where you went to school and what you decided to do with your life, in particular anything that might suggest you'd end up in a place like Antarctica.

DM: Well, to tell you the truth, I hadn't planned to ever be in the Navy. I was at Cal in 1941. That was my freshman year.

DOB: Berkeley?

DM: UC-Berkeley at Cal, and of course Pearl Harbor came. After two years at Cal—all I'd ever done is gone to school, high school and college—nine of us in my fraternity that I belonged to said, "Let's enlist in the Navy." So we all enlisted in the Navy. I went to boot camp on July 1st of 1943 and was in World War II; was in the Solomon Islands and in the Philippine Islands.

And at one time I said, "My Lord, this war is going to go on forever. I'm going to apply for a commission. I'm going to try to get an appointment to the Naval Academy." So I put in for it. Well, when the atom bomb was dropped in 1945, the war soon came to an end. I didn't have enough points to get out of the Navy, but about that time the approval came through for me to go back to Naval ROTC at Cal, and I didn't have a choice.

DOB: Why not?

DM: Well, I had said I would accept an appointment. I really wanted to go to the Naval Academy, but the Naval Board said just to finish at Cal. I guess maybe I did have a choice, but my dad said, "Take it. It's cheap schooling." So I did. I finished at Cal, Naval ROTC, and graduated in 1948. And I got my commission in '48.

Well, for the schooling I owed the Navy four years, so I went into the Navy, went to Supply Corps School in Bayonne, New Jersey, and then went onto an aircraft carrier as disbursing officer. But in the meantime, the Korean War came on, and after my four-year stint was up, the Navy was not letting people out.

DOB: Because of Korea? DM: Because of Korea, because I was a USN officer. So I just stayed on. Ultimately went to Naval Post Graduate School at Monterey, and also to George Washington University. I Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 2

got a master's at post-graduate school and got another master's at GWU in Washington, DC.

DOB: So did I.

DM: Anyway, so I ended up staying for thirty-one years. So I was in the Navy from July 1st of 1943 until June 30th of 1974, all active duty. A lot of it schooling, of course. Because I had two years and nine months enlisted service, and then went back as a midshipman at Naval ROTC at Berkeley, and then got my ensign's commission in June of '48 and went on from there.

DOB: It must've been a good thing.

DM: It was good. I loved it, really. I'd really planned to go to law school at Cal, but WWII changed my whole life. World War II changed a lot of us. I was good to the Navy, but the Navy was very good to me.

DOB: How did you get interested in supply?

DM: It wasn't so much interested in supply. I would've liked to have gone into naval aviation because I had my pilot's license. I had a private pilot's license which I got through the GI Bill of Rights also when I was going to Cal. I got that during the last two years at Cal when I came back into the Naval RO program. I wanted to become a Navy pilot, but my eye problems prevented that. I didn't want to go into the general line, so—and since my degree was in business administration at Cal, I went right in to Supply Corps School. My commission has always been Supply Corps, USN. I didn't want to become a general line officer, but I'd like to have been a pilot, but it didn't work that way.

DOB: How did you learn about opportunities for you in Antarctica?

DM: I didn't know about it. I was having a wonderful time stationed at Military Sea Transportation Service in New Orleans when I got a call from somebody from OP, Office of Personnel, part of Bureau of Naval Personnel. And I said, "I don't hardly even know where Antarctica is. Is it north or south?" Really, about that stupid. So I went up to Washington, D.C. to see the task force supply officer, Lt. Comdr. Don Kent. He interviewed me and said I'd have to make up my mind within forty-eight hours if I wanted to go or not, and I'd have my orders soon after that.

I came home, talked about it with some of my friends in New Orleans, and I said, "Gee. You can go anyplace in the world, but Antarctica's someplace you'd have to join like a task force or something to go down there. I would love to see the South Pole." I'd heard of Admiral Byrd at the South Pole and all this, so I came home and decided I would go. I phoned Don Kent who called OP. I had my orders in a few days and headed for Davisville. All our staging was at Davisville, Rhode Island.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 3

DOB: How old were you at the time?

DM: How old was I? Let me see. I celebrated my thirty-third birthday down at Little America, so I guess I must've been thirty-two at the time.

DOB: Okay. More mature than many of them.

DM: Yes. A lot of the enlisted personnel were really, really, really young. I think Chief Hess and I are just about the same age. He might be a little bit older than I am. But really, I was older than a lot of them.

DOB: So it all began for you at Davisville, Rhode Island.

DM: It all began for me at Davisville, Rhode Island.

DOB: And what happened there to prepare you for the ice and what were you assigned to do?

DM: Well, of course I became the supply officer of MCB (Special), the Mobile Construction Battalion (Special), and to tell you the truth, the busiest time for me was at Davisville. That was our staging area. All the supplies came into Davisville. Everything was color-coded, this big system we had—well, we didn't talk about it but we will later on. We were going to have this perfect system where when we had to put supplies up on the ice, we had a well-coordinated color-code type thing.

And Chief Hess was really the head honcho, as far as I was concerned. He and I worked very closely together. And it ended up that he went to McMurdo and I went to Little America 5.

Incidentally, money seemed to be no problem. The task force people, if we needed more money, just seemed to throw it at us; even money to buy dogs, which I'm sure you've heard of already, which was a complete fiasco.

DOB: Why?

DM: Well, we had some people—some of this is going to have to be taken out—but we had people like Jack Bursey and even Admiral Byrd himself, who had dogs when they went down there in earlier times, but now we have helicopters to do exactly the same thing and much better. But some of the "old explorers" insisted we have dogs, so we got them. We had them at McMurdo Sound; not at Little America where I was. But I think they were absolutely useless, and it was $24,000 really spent very badly.

DOB: Did that come under the supply officer's . . . ?

DM: Yes. The money to purchase them was given by the task force. And there was a Jack Tuck—have you talked . . . ? Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 4

DOB: He's dead.

DM: Oh my God, you're right. That's true. But he was the one really in charge of it, and an Air Force MSGT Dolleman, I think it was. He wintered over in McMurdo, I think. But they were really in charge of them. I just did the purchasing of them, and I thought it was a horrible way to spend money.

DOB: Give me some sense of the complexity of the task of getting all these supplies organized—the magnitude and the complexity. Give me some sense of what you had to have.

DM: What did we have to have? My God. Well, of course at the beginning we had to have shelter. We also put out the contract for all the Clements panels. Does that mean something to you?

DOB: Yes.

DM: That's what our homes and all the buildings were built out of. And food of course. It wasn't a huge problem because the Naval Subsistence Office helped me an awful lot, and I was very close with the Commanding Officer of the Naval Subsistence Office. I can't even think of her name now. She was a WAVE officer, and I worked very closely with her in just ordering food that would go—and my chief commissaryman was Chief McInvale. Did you ever . . . ?

DOB: I know of him.

DM: McInvale, absolutely a superb chief commissaryman. I would say he was the main cog in deciding what we were going to have. We brought down two years—remember, this is the first group to winter over—we brought two years' supply of everything, of food, in case for some reason or the other we weren't going to be relieved as planned . . . if we were going to be down there for two years. So food was extremely important, and I give Chief McInvale credit for that. Also Chief Hess, too. The chief petty officers, as far as I'm concerned, were the stalwarts of this complete operation.

I guess my biggest problem was wondering what things that we had forgotten or did not get. We're not going to be able to say, "Oh. We forgot this so we'll just requisition it from Naval Supply Center Oakland or Naval Supply Center Norfolk or something like that. What we had with us is what we were going to live on. So I guess that sort of stressed me out a little bit, what haven't we gotten?

The task force supply officers helped a lot, but their biggest help was pushing out money. I said, "We're going to need this, we're going to need that," and magically the money appeared.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 5

Incidentally, the one thing I didn't have to do as far as money goes, was the Navy had huge contracts with the Caterpillar tractor people out of Peoria, Illinois. That was something the task force did, I guess. I really don't know. That was a huge problem. I had nothing to do with the aviation part of it either, VX-6. They had a supply officer, although he didn't winter over, but they had a supply officer. He came down and then he went back home. I think his name was Bill Fay, as I remember right now. I don't know. But he's gone.

DOB: Did you have to do clothing and spare parts?

DM: Oh, clothing, too, yes. But you know, the outfit up at Natick . . . what in the world was their . . . Natick, Massachusetts. A cold-weather clothing outfit. I can't think of what their name was now. They came down and were instrumental in getting us the best arctic clothing there was at that time. The Bureau of Supplies and Accounts, which is now Naval Supply Systems Command, was very helpful in getting us the right clothing or put us in touch with the people who could provide that type of clothing. So I had an awful lot of help. But it worried me because I was the guy responsible once we got down there if we didn't have it.

DOB: Did you forget anything?

DM: Well, we came through in flying colors. Everybody came home probably fatter than they went down there. At this stage of the game, what, forty-two or -three years later, I can't recall forgetting anything.

DOB: I remember that Paul Siple wrote in his book that, "Oh, I wish we had a sewing machine," and that may have been his forgetfulness.

DM: I'm sure we did not have a sewing machine, but we all had ample clothing, I must say.

DOB: He wanted to sew up parachutes for other purposes.

DM: Oh, excuse me. That never entered my mind, and I'm sure we didn't have one. DOB: Tell me how you organized all this now. You've got supplies that are going down for the two stations that will be built during Deep Freeze I and two inland stations.

DM: Yes. By the two inland stations, you mean for Byrd Base and for the South Pole?

DOB: Yes.

DM: For Byrd Land and South Pole? That's true. To tell you the truth, I only planned for McMurdo Sound and Little America 5. In fact, I don't even recall deciding what things were going to go—I don't think I had any responsibility for getting the material for Byrd Land and for South Pole.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 6

DOB: They would've had to come down at the same time.

DM: That's true. They all did come down at the same time. As I recall now, specific supplies were color-coded for Byrd Land and South Pole while at Davisville. Supplies for the South Pole were stored at McMurdo and those for Byrd Land at Little America 5. We went through the winter, and I guess it was probably in September or October of 1956 that they started going into Byrd Land. Vic Young headed up that group.

DOB: That's right, but wouldn't those plans have had to have been made over the winter?

DM: Yes, they were, and I hate to say it, Dian, but I cannot—yes, everything that went to Byrd Land we took with us, but I don't recall separating the Byrd Land stuff and the stuff going to the South Pole from anything that we were going to have at McMurdo Sound and Little America 5.

DOB: They weren't separately color-coded at the beginning?

DM: Yes, they were separately color-coded, so you're bringing out things now that I had completely forgotten about, and they were that—for four bases. You're embarrassing me, but that's true. They were separately color-coded. Maybe you got this from Chief Hess. He knew more about it than I did.

DOB: I read it in a report.

DM: Okay. I should've gone over the report before you came to be sure I hadn't forgotten things.

DOB: And there were other categories within—what kind of categories of supplies were there?

DM: You mean like subsistence-type things? Food-type things? Clothing types?

DOB: Yes.

DM: Building materials, which I really didn't have responsibility for the building materials because the Seabees—I call them the Group 8 rates, the Civil Engineering Corps officers like Commander Whitney, Vic Young, and that type of person—they knew what they were going to have there. That type of thing didn't really come under my purview at all. I guess you might talk about consumables were more my problem than the buildings, tractors, Sno-Cats, Weasels, and that type of thing.

DOB: But you decided—you were the one in charge for the consumables.

DM: Oh yes. Right. And I would think that would really be it.

DOB: Okay. Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 7

DM: Because I didn't know a D-8 tractor from a D-2 tractor, or at that point I don't think I even knew, as far as aircraft goes, what an Otter was. I think the first time I ever saw one was once they offloaded them at Little America. I'd never seen one before.

DOB: Tell me what it means to be the supply officer for MCB (Special). Where in the chain of command does that put you?

DM: Oh my Lord. Well, I suppose it would be like aboard a ship, just like a department head. You have a doctor, and he had a hospital corpsman under him, and I had the supply rates like the storekeepers, like Chief Hess, and I had several others with me, all the commissarymen, all the cooks, which is a very important thing. Food became extremely important down there, and I'm just wondering if anybody has ever talked to you about ham chunks. They haven't?

DOB: Tell me.

DM: Well, apparently we went overboard on ham. You know, we ate about 5600 calories a day. That sounds like a lot, but the cold weather takes a lot out of you. And we had so many ham chunks that we'd make . . . have you ever talked to Dr. Ehrlich? Have you talked to Ed Ehrlich?

DOB: Yes.

DM: Ask him about ham chunks some time. He said, "My God, we thought we'd never get rid of ham." But incidentally, back to Chief McInvale, every once in a while at Little America—and I have to concentrate on Little America because that's where I was—every once in a while, he would put a spread out, and realize a lot of this was dehydrated food. We'd have like a beautiful buffet, and I've got so many good pictures of them. He would set up a beautiful buffet with beautiful potato salad and macaroni salad and pickles and olives and all that type of thing and beautiful rolls. He just did a beautiful job of breaking up the regular eating routine. We'd have a buffet in the recreation hall or someplace instead of in the mess hall itself. Anyway, I have to give credit—I keep evading your question because I keep forgetting what the question was.

DOB: That's okay. I was asking about the chain of command and then my really next question—

DM: Oh, the chain of command. It was just like aboard ship where you have a department head, I was a department head. Just like you have an operations officer, in that case it would've been Dick Bowers, I think, of the construction battalion. He was in the Seabees. Let's talk about the Naval Mobile Construction Battalion. We had the Commanding Officer who was Whitney, Commander Whitney, and I think the exec was Bob Graham who was a pilot. It didn't make much sense.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 8

On our side there was Vic Young, a warrant officer who ended up as a lieutenant commander. I think he was our operations officer at Little America, I can't remember. I was the supply officer. These are like department heads. Of course, realize there were only . . . how many of us at Little America? Seventy-three, I think. Seventy-three people, so that's not a huge number.

DOB: And what's the practical difference between the supply officer and a supply chief?

DM: And a supply chief? To tell you the truth, Chief Hess was really an agent of mine over in McMurdo Sound. And I think as I said before, by rights I think I should've been at McMurdo Sound because that's where the problems were, and Chief Hess had to put up with them and did a superb job.

You're asking me what the difference between the . . . I guess it's just a case . . . as far as I'm concerned down there rank almost was non-existent. We were commanders, lieutenant commanders and lieutenants and j.g.'s and that type of thing, but really everybody was . . . I don't know. I don't think rank really had much to do with it especially at Little America. Just thinking about things in the mess hall, we all ate together. You don't do that aboard ship. You have ward rooms and you have the mess decks and that type of thing. It just wasn't that way at all. And I think if you've seen them at some of the reunions, I don't think that ever comes up very often, or maybe it does but I wasn't aware of it. I don't think I'm answering your questions right.

DOB: That's fine. Just one last question about before you ever went there. In terms of the scale of this Operation Deep Freeze, how would that compare to, say, some other major operation like the Normandy invasion or the Inchon landing or something like that?

DM: [Laughs] That's much smaller. I don't think you can compare that type of thing. And also we weren't fighting a war. We were going down there to help the . . . actually, hopefully I guess the National Science Foundation. Our purpose down there was for the International Geophysical Year. You can't—going on a scale of a Normandy invasion, no. That just wasn't it. After all, we had what, three icebreakers and . . . I guess we had three icebreakers and the three cargo ships, as I recall. I don't know. The Wyandot, the Arneb, and the Greenville Victory—I think that was the third one. And so we were a small task force, Task Force 43. But I certainly wouldn't compare it with anything like that, no.

DOB: How did you get to Antarctica?

DM: I went from Norfolk where we all started from. The ships came to Norfolk, and I went from—

DOB: On what ship?

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 9

DM: On the Wyandot to New Zealand, to Christchurch. And then from Christchurch into the ice at Little America, I went on the Arneb because the Wyandot went to McMurdo Sound, the Arneb went to Little America. And this is something else. I only think I went on the Wyandot because I was very good friends of Lieutenant Commander Canham who was the Officer in Charge at McMurdo Sound, and he just said, "Come on." He was the one who arranged who was going to go on what ship, but I ended up going down with him just because we were really close friends.

DOB: Well, tell me about that trip as you sailed farther and farther into the high latitudes. What's it like in the southern ocean?

DM: Of course I'd been there before. After all, I went down into the Solomons group, and I did the whole—

DOB: But that's tropical. I mean high latitudes south when you start seeing icebergs and—

DM: Oh! Excuse me. Also I was going to say I'd been to New Zealand before, but I hadn't. In fact I've got a picture. Seeing the first iceberg was a tremendous thing for me. I just showed it to a group of people around here about a couple of months ago. I don't know, just seeing the first iceberg was a great thing. And what's more spectacular, as far as I'm concerned, is to see something like the Ross Sea Ice Shelf just as—

DOB: Tell me about it.

DM: Well, it's just so spectacular. If you'll excuse me a minute, I'll show you some things that— [Pause in recording]

DM: —spectacular thing to me was not so much the first iceberg, I guess, but to see that huge ice shelf, you know, in the Ross Sea. I thought that was so spectacular, and I don't think I ever really quite got over it. When we ultimately left, and we've wintered over there and we've gone after fifteen months, just helicoptering back out to the ship that brought us home, which was the USS Curtiss AV-4 seaplane tender . . . just flying over all this ice shelf, and this ship was quite far out in the Kainan Bay there, just looking back and seeing this, just a beautiful, just a gorgeous place. I loved it, really.

DOB: Did you worry about going through the pack ice when it got thick?

DM: I don't think I worried about anything like that. I didn't have anything to do with the navigation of the ships. I don't think I ever worried about anything about pack ice or getting beset or staying there for too long, in other words that a relief party wouldn't be coming in to relieve us. I never thought of anything like that. Maybe I was just too stupid to . . . I didn't have any fears of that type of thing at all. To me it was a huge, big adventure. I just loved it. I really enjoyed it.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 10

In fact, having seen pictures of what it looks like now and it's so built up . . . I don't know. I figured it was as much—maybe it might've been more primitive when we were there, and there were only so few of us, to me it was a great adventure. I don't think it would be the adventure now that I see trucks are down there. I'm only seeing this on a picture; I haven't been down there to see it ever again. And Little America, of course, is not even there. But just seeing what McMurdo Sound looks like, big buildings and trucks and stop signs and that type of thing just doesn't seem like the Antarctic to me. I might as well be going to a small city in the states here.

DOB: And what happened to Little America?

DM: Well, I don't think—the way I understood it, what was left of Little America 5, I thought they took on over to McMurdo Sound. I don't know. You might know more about it than I do. After all, Little America 5, I know how long it stayed there because I was there on the ice for fifteen months. Let's see. We arrived there the day before Thanksgiving in 1955, and I was on the ice until March 15th of 1957. Now really, as I think back, I don't know how long Little America 5 stayed there.

DOB: It finally went out to sea. It just broke off. The whole ice shelf—

DM: I heard stories like that, but did it really? Because after all, we were pretty far inland on the ice.

DOB: It did, because it just keeps going every year. DM: Yes, I know. It calves off, I realize that, but buildings and things just didn't go into the ocean, or did they?

DOB: I think so.

DM: Is that the way you understood that?

DOB: We'll check on that.

DM: Well, okay. I thought really they were trying to move some of that stuff four hundred miles up the way to McMurdo.

DOB: They may have gotten some stuff out.

DM: Now these Civil Engineering Corps-type officers were probably—especially people like Dick Bowers, if he said it happened, then it probably happened. I didn't stay close to this as a lot of them did. After I got back I got into whole new things. In fact, as soon as I came back, I was ordered to the Naval Air Station Alameda and immediately thereafter went to post-graduate school, and a whole other new life started.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 11

DOB: Okay. Let's go now to Kainan Bay when you first got there, and this is your big moment, and tell me about your responsibilities and those first few weeks on the ice.

DM: Well first, a group of us including Admiral Dufek and Commander Whitney, who was the Commanding Officer of MCB (Special), determined how far on the Ross Sea Ice Shelf we were going to go in. Where were we going to establish Little America 5.

Well, once it was established where it was going to be, and I don't even know how far off from the Ross Sea Ice Shelf at that time that it was, maybe three or four miles inland, we had all these great plans to set up a big supply dump. Because soon after we decided this is where it was going to be, the first things that came off the ship were the tractors, the trailers, the sleds, and they started bringing the supplies up, but the first things that came up, of course, were the Clements panels to build the places where we were living. Well, that happened rather quickly. I mean it went up rather quickly.

But in the meantime, other than building material supplies were coming off, and we'd done this big color-coding system at Davisville where we were going to have a beautiful supply dump, I thought so, so that we'd be able to find these things. It didn't happen that way at all. The task force operations officer insisted that we were going much too slowly, and that the ships had to be offloaded quickly, and it became an all-hands evolution. They used everybody to push things off of the ships.

DOB: Why were they in such a rush? DM: They wanted to get the ships out of there. Get them back away out of the ice; get them back closer to New Zealand. They apparently were that worried. My worry was I wanted to find supplies after everybody had left and now we're here, all seventy-three of us are sitting there and wondering where specific material was located. Our great color-code system went down the drain.

Since the task force people decided we had to get the ships offloaded quickly so they could get out of there before the ice came in, it became an all-hands evolution. Everybody who could be spared, which was practically everybody, was used to get supplies up to the site. We literally pushed supplies off into the snow, then went back and got another sled load. There were twenty-four tractors and twenty-four sleds. They shuttled from ship to site as fast as they could. Supplies were all over the place and absolutely no system about it at all.

I had a real angry argument with the task force operations officer, Commander Frazier, who was in charge of getting the ships offloaded. He was more interested in getting ships out of there. I could see his problem, but he didn't see my problem, and we came practically to physical blows. We certainly came to . . . we had words with each other. It was almost insubordination on my part.

DOB: Did he have more authority than you?

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 12

DM: Oh, he had much more. He's a commander; I'm a lieutenant. Also he had the ear of Admiral Dufek. And Admiral Dufek I'm sure had an interest in getting his ships out of there quickly. He was the task force commander, and we were supposed to have bases built in some kind of an orderly fashion, but it just didn't work that way. At least it didn't work that way at Little America.

The buildings went up fine, but all other consumable supplies were just scattered everywhere, except for food. For food, we built a huge area right behind where the galley was built, and they were put up in a very orderly fashion thanks to our commissaryman, Chief McInvale. We always knew where all the food was. For sure we were going to eat. We weren't going to lose track of that, but we certainly lost track of lots of other supplies. I never really knew how much we ever lost, but we survived in good shape.

We were able to find . . . well, now wait. We'll put it this way. When all the supplies were dumped all over the ice down there, we took a helicopter and took a picture from the air of where stuff was. Then we blew these pictures up and put them on a wall of what was my office, a little office in one of the buildings there, and we would say, "We think these are electronic tubes, we think this is . . . ." And we put bamboo poles up making some kind of coordinates to show what was underneath this spot. So when you would see P-1, you'd know down there under the snow was electronic tubes, for example, and we'd start digging.

I have pictures of myself and storekeepers digging through six, seven feet of snow and finding a box that somebody had already emptied. Empty boxes because somebody had gotten there earlier and we thought the stuff was still there.

But realize, we came down there with not only a two-year supply of food, but we came down there with a two-year supply of practically everything. So we didn't run out—I don't think it was ever a problem where there was something we had to do without or radios wouldn't operate or something because we couldn't find the material. We found something of everything. I'm sure we left a lot down there, too.

DOB: Did you ever get your supplies under cover or were they—

DM: Ever under cover? Never never never. Never, never under cover, but yes under cover of snow. No. You could walk right out across the—just visualize an open lot with supplies all over the place, and then just put about eight feet of snow on the top of that. And somewhere underneath there, you would walk right over the dump. I wonder if anybody told you . . . we did have flags up there with coordinates showing us and using this diagram of the pictures I had in the office about where things were. You'd go down and say, "Oh, this isn't what we wanted. We thought this was such and such." I wonder if anybody told you that on the way down in Panama, we picked up loads of bamboo. Did somebody tell you that story?

DOB: Tell me. Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 13

DM: We picked up loads of bamboo to use for trail markers. Jack Bursey was a Coast Guard man who wintered over with us. Lieutenant Commander Bursey insisted we have these for trail markers. We brought all this bamboo aboard ship, but also we brought loads and loads of snakes that were in this bamboo, and I'm wondering if anybody told you this, Dian. We had snakes aboard the Arneb and the Wyandot. Because of the bamboo we put aboard ship, the snakes came along with it also. I'm sure if you were able to interview any of the skippers, they would tell you, "Yes, we were infested with snakes aboard our ships." Or even ask Dr. Ehrlich about this, too. Anyway, have you interviewed him at all?

DOB: Yes.

DM: Okay.

DOB: And you used the bamboo then for . . . .

DM: I used some of the bamboo poles, not for trail markers, but as markers to indicate what specific item or group of like items were under the marker, then made an index in my office. As I said before, the crew—not only my supply people but others—spent an awful lot of time digging for material buried under the snow.

The other thing we had in pretty good order was fuel. We lived on diesel fuel. We ran the galley with diesel fuel, and of course all the Caterpillars. Diesel fuel was a major thing. Now those were set out—of course in fifty-five-gallon drums—those were set out quite far away from the camp, but we knew exactly where—there were perfect coordinates to find them. We could find food and we could find fuel.

DOB: Those were the important things.

DM: They were important things, true, but—

DOB: Had you intended initially to have some of those other supplies, say, in the tunnels or under cover?

DM: No.

DOB: They were meant to just be outside?

DM: Yes. They were meant to be outside. Right. We knew there was going to be a digging process but not as bad as it turned out. I don't think McMurdo Sound had it as bad as we did. You might ask Chief Hess. Of course they were on land. I spent maybe four weeks at McMurdo Sound, so I don't know a great deal about it. But for us, I don't think there was ever any plan to have everything under cover. That would've taken an awful lot of extra buildings.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 14

Even now, as I understand it, at the South Pole, the whole place is under a great big geodesic dome, and everything is sort of cozy. It looks like it's cozy to me. Cozy and nice and clean and looks rather coordinated and just good conditions. We didn't have that. I repeat all the time, none of us suffered down there where I was at Little America. It wasn't a bad time. I have to stress that.

DOB: How long did it take before you felt that you had some sort of a permanent sense of where things were and could run things in a routine way?

DM: After the task force got out of my hair. Since they pushed all these supplies up at us, I couldn't wait to get them out of there. I just didn't want anybody there but the seventy-three of us who were to winter over and we would work it out. I was so happy to see the ships pull out.

I almost felt like we had tourists while the task force people and the ship's personnel were among us. I wonder if anybody's told you about that. After we wintered over, when the new party came down to relieve us and all the ships came back in again, it was just a horrible thing to see that many people coming in. I enjoyed our small group, but I just went crazy with the influx of people. Of course we were hot-bunking it for a while, because there were our reliefs there plus us. The guy who relieved me was Lt. Comdr. Bob Hancock. He was a Supply Corps officer, and I've never heard of him since. Does that name hit you at all?

DOB: No.

DM: I never even heard of him. He just seemed to have disappeared off the face of the earth.

DOB: Was there at some level a resentment that here are these guys coming in to take over all of our—

DM: No, I don't know there was resentment toward the guys who were actually going to relieve us. It was all the other people that came in that we really called tourists. People who had nothing to do. We had newspaper reporters and that type of thing. They took up space, and they took up food. At that time, though, as far as I was concerned, I was sort of phasing out and the guy who was relieving me was taking over.

Where the officers were billeted, I guess you would call our little BOQ, our little bachelor officers quarters, where they used to be, what? About nine of us in there. It built up to about twenty-seven people in this little building. Twelve or eight hours was mine and eight hours was somebody else's and that type of thing. It was just a mess. And anybody you talk to, at least from Little America, will tell you that was a terrible, terrible time. But a lot of these people were important because the scientists were coming in, they wanted to take the trip up to Byrd Land and that type of thing.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 15

But the happiest day of my life down there was to see those ships pull out, and we were left. I wasn't sad at all. Here were seventy-three of us left in this big patch of ice on this big continent—of course there were the other people in McMurdo Sound. But I couldn't have been any happier than to see the task force pull out and the ships pull out.

DOB: Then you could organize it your own way.

DM: We could organize. Realize the snows came pretty quickly. Come April, I can show you . . . I'm sure you've seen loads of pictures of this, what Little America looked like right after they built it with this long passageway and then buildings all sprouting out from either side. You know, within seven or eight weeks, all you could see were the little chimney tops. That's all there was to it.

[End Side A, Tape 1]

[Begin Side B, Tape 1]

DOB: One of the things that I'm thinking of are the inevitable losses of things, and you have spoken about losses under the snow and so on. But I'm thinking of—

DM: You're thinking of supply-type losses, not people-type losses.

DOB: Well, I'm relating those actually right now, because I'm thinking of the tragic loss of Max Kiel who fell into a crevasse, which was a horrible personal loss, and it must've had a terrible effect on people. But it was also the loss of a very important piece of equipment.

DM: Yes.

DOB: And I'm wondering how much that sort of thing had been anticipated and how you get along without something like that.

DM: The personal loss of Max Kiel was deeply felt. The loss of the wanigan and tractor did not affect future operations.

DOB: His tractor went with it.

DM: The tractor went with it. And of course he was crushed in there, the way I understand it. I didn't go out there. They flew Chaplain Bol, who subsequently has died, out there. And I think as I understand, they wrote home again—not wrote home but through radio contact, and so I guess Max is still there, at least the body, and the tractor and everything like that.

But when you're saying the loss of the equipment, you mean the loss of the tractor and the loss of the wanigan itself? And the loss of that type of thing? I don't think I ever gave Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 16

that a thought. Never gave it a thought. I can't remember what was on that or even thought about what was lost in the way of supplies.

DOB: There must have been some anticipation of losing equipment in one way or another and preparing with spare parts or spare tractors.

DM: Spare tractors? There was only a tractor and a wanigan is the way I understand it. It's funny. That question doesn't . . . that strikes me funny that I wouldn't even thought of what we lost in the way of material. And I don't think . . . it doesn't . . . I just have to stop right there. I never thought of anything . . . obviously we must have replaced it, whatever it was. Incidentally, I don't know whether this was a wanigan or was it a sled full of supplies that went into the crevasse. A wanigan being—you know what I mean by a wanigan? [A living quarters.]

DOB: Yes. But I think it was just a big tractor.

DM: I haven't the slightest idea. Incidentally now, the people who would've decided what's going to go on that wanigan would've been people like George Moss, Vic Young. As I recall, Vic was the head of that group, as I think. I should know more about this since Vic was my roommate for a while. But no, I never thought about supplies that way. That question sort of startled me.

DOB: I want to talk a little bit about chief storekeeper William Hess, who was at McMurdo, and you've spoken about him already. And he was really in charge over there.

DM: Oh, he was. And I think as I said before, I should've been over there. I really should've, because that's where, as far as I'm concerned, they had most of the problems. From Chief Hess, I have learned things at reunions that I'd never even heard about that went on over there. He had lots and lots and lots of problems and did an absolutely stupendous job. I only spoke to him via radio, because we were four hundred miles apart, probably eight or nine times during the entire time. There wasn't anything I could do anyway. He was an agent but had a much harder time as a chief petty officer down there than I did.

DOB: He told me yesterday that he would not allow them to just dump his supplies off the ship and apparently got by with it.

DM: Well, of course they had to drag theirs in an awful long way from McMurdo Sound. Ours was like a few miles on the ice. They were an awful long ways away, the way I understand it. An awful long ways away. I never did see . . . because I never got down there. The whole winter's gone before I ever got to McMurdo for the first time. Admiral Dufek returned on the Glacier because I went over there on the Glacier late in 1956. The whole winter's gone by so twelve months have gone by, but I'd never been to McMurdo Sound. So the first time I saw it, it looked completely well organized, as far as I'm concerned.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 17

DOB: He said it was.

DM: Oh yes. Well, Hess is a very strong person, and Lieutenant Commander Canham, who was his boss, really, down there, thought an awful lot of him, too, and I certainly did because he did a marvelous job at Davisville. And then when he was on his own—not really on his own. He had good people, and I'm sure Dave Canham saw that Hess got the help he needed.

DOB: You alluded a minute ago to the fact that Little America was envisioned to be the flagship station.

DM: Right. The reason I would say that, why would they have the Commanding Officer of the construction battalion there, the only Supply Corps officer that was going to winter over was there, and of course we had our own doctor.

DOB: But in fact it seems that very quickly McMurdo became more significant.

DM: Well, let's face it . . . and we all know that it is the time . . . .

[Interruption]

Yes, as we all know, McMurdo Sound was the main place. Obviously, it's still there. And yet some of the . . . I would say . . . hardly not the way to put it, but a lot of the rank was over at our place. It was over at Little America 5, and that's just completely opposite of what it should have been. And to this day, I really . . . except that Commander Whitney in my case was my boss. He was the guy who was writing my fitness reports and insisted I be with him at Little America 5—I was going to be at Little America. And I really should've been at McMurdo. It should've been opposite and Chief Hess should've probably been at Little America. That's water under the bridge now. But it became evident after . . . now that the task force is gone, and the very few times they would talk back and forth—that would be Commander Whitney with Lieutenant Commander Canham as OinC over there—the problem place was going to be McMurdo Sound and we were just in the wrong place.

DOB: Well, probably one of the most important tasks to do during the long winter was to prepare for the building of Byrd Station the following summer, which was to be done by tractor train—

DM: Right.

DOB: —and everything there would have to be hauled in. So I would think that the supply officer would have a major role to get organized for that.

DM: I didn't have hardly anything to do there. I'm trying to think now. Vic Young, who was in charge of that, the tractor train, I guess it was Vic, I think it was Vic, and I think it was Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 18

Lieutenant Commander Bursey went with him, the Coast Guard guy who was a very close friend of Admiral Byrd's. But Vic, I think, really at the time of the offloading, made sure that his Byrd—you can ask Vic this—that his Byrd stuff got into a certain area, and he just kept his operations and supplies grouped in one area.

Because right now, Dian, I cannot think of . . . I knew they were color-coded in a certain way, but I cannot visualize that any of the stuff for Little America was mixed in with the stuff that was going to go to Byrd Land. And I think probably Vic, not only Vic, but Chief Moss probably did more of that than I did. Give credit where credit is due.

DOB: That must've been a major operation.

DM: Well, isn't it funny? I can just see this set-up of all the—I can see a tractor train ready to get going with the little Weasel with its little flag on it and all the D-8 tractors and the wanigans and the sleds behind it. But you know, it didn't seem like a major—you're making something bigger out of it than I made out of it. Because of course they did have a problem on the way up there obviously with Max Kiel, and ultimately when they sent the plane out, I think it was with Paul Streich as I recall, and then didn't they have an accident?

DOB: They sure did.

DM: He had an accident and he was lost for a little while out there. This is sort of half coming back to me. But I don't recall feeling any great big responsibility for getting the Byrd Station stuff out of there. I really don't. It sounds like a very big thing when you tell me, but it doesn't . . . and maybe I've lost something over the years, obviously.

DOB: So we can't blame you that Byrd got practically no beer.

DM: [Laughs] I don't remember this. Really?

DOB: Beer was very short at Byrd Station.

DM: Because I recall the beer at our place got so frozen that it got very flat. Not being a beer drinker, I . . . I mean I can't stand beer. Even today, I can't take it. But isn't that funny. I didn't hear about this at Byrd Station. I feel rather at a loss right now. The Byrd Station thing didn't seem to be a big thing with me.

DOB: Well, maybe Vic Young took charge of that.

DM: I'm sure he must've. And you're going to talk to him?

DOB: Yes.

DM: Well, and he'll probably say, "Mehaffey had nothing to do with that. I [inaudible] all that."

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 19

DOB: Well, one of the questions that's related to Byrd Station is that while Little America was busy getting ready to launch, as it were, Byrd Station in the summer of 1956, McMurdo was in an analogous way launching Pole Station.

DM: Pole Station. Right. Which was of course . . . well, as it all ends up, McMurdo and Pole are the major ones.

DOB: That's right.

DM: Is there such a thing as Byrd Station?

DOB: Not anymore. And that's my question is that Pole Station got all the press and all the political interest and all the popular interest, and I'm wondering if there was some feeling about that among the people over at Little America.

DM: Well, you're talking to only me now. Definitely not. In fact, press . . . if there's anything . . . I thought of the press as more tourists, and probably got a lot of this . . . even subsequently. But even when they were down during the turnover from Deep Freeze I to Deep Freeze II, they came down in great numbers. I guess I had a very negative attitude towards anybody who was just taking up space, as far as I was concerned. In reality, I guess they were real important, as it was the U.S. taxpayer who was paying for all of this, and it was the press who let them know what was going on. Of course you are practically one of those. [Laughs]

When I think of the Byrd Station, it doesn't . . . how do I put it? It wasn't a big thing with me. It just really wasn't. In fact, I don't even recall now how long Byrd Station even stayed as a station.

DOB: It was several years.

DM: It did? And did the scientists do anything there?

DOB: Yes.

DM: They did?

DOB: Oh yes.

DM: I didn't know. See? I don't really know, to tell you the truth.

DOB: Talk a little more about the press and why . . . you certainly aren't the only person who got annoyed with them.

DM: I am not the only person?

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 20

DOB: No, not at all.

DM: Not because of what they were doing. It's just that it's more people to feed—during the transition period, more people to feed, more people to house. Every once in a while, as I recall, they required—I cannot recall anything specifically that they made requirements on. "Can we get this or can we get that," or "Does your guy have any more film" or something like this. It just aggravated the hell out of me.

But I think if they were even other than press people, even some of the scientists that were just going to be down there for a short time, just do some little experiments who made . . . of course they were there for a reason. After all, it was the International Geophysical Year. But I think when I got overwhelmed with people, it just upset me no end.

DOB: Do you think that was because the group had been so small and static for the year?

DM: It could've been. As I told you before, I was glad to see the task force go after we came in. Dumped all our supplies and they left. I was glad to see them go, and I just hated to see the new people come in. I got very, I don't know . . . I wanted my little group. I didn't want everybody coming in here. I know it's a horrible thing. I don't know if anybody else will tell you this.

DOB: What effect, if any, did your polar experience have on later directions that you took in your life?

DM: Probably not a great deal, Dian, except that right after I got home, I was at Naval Air Station Alameda for a short time before I went to graduate school. The Bureau of Supplies and Accounts would call my Commanding Officer at NAS Alameda and say, "We want Lieutenant Mehaffey to go to Treasure Island and talk to" some kind of a group. I was constantly talking to groups, even Lions Clubs, San Francisco Lions Club, even the Commonwealth Club, which is quite a club in San Francisco, I talked to them, I showed them pictures, that type of thing. I had a job to do at NAS Alameda but I was constantly being diverted to go here, go here, go here. I went down to San Diego several times to speak to supply groups down there.

[Pause in recording]

DM: For about the first four months after I was home . . . .

DOB: What was their purpose, do you think, in asking you to do this? The Navy's purpose?

DM: I guess they wanted the public to realize how involved the Navy was in the exploration of this mostly unexplored continent. And again, it was getting a lot of press and we were the first group. In fact, when our ship came into San Diego—the USS Curtiss, the one that we all came home on—a number of us went immediately to a television station. But I really didn't particularly want to because our friends were down in San Diego and I think Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 21

my parents had come down, too, or something like that. But they said, no. They sent Dave Canham over here, Ehrlich over there, and I went to this station, all over San Diego and Los Angeles. I recall doing a good deal of that.

Then, as I say, once I finally got into a new job in NAS Alameda, I was constantly being . . . the Bureau of Supplies, they never came to me, they came through the skipper, my boss, he was an aviator, and said, "Now they want you to give a speech over at Treasure Island." And usually it was all the people who were interested in things like the food, that type of thing. How did you survive and that? What kind of food did you use? All that type of thing.

DOB: Have you been back?

DM: To the Antarctic?

DOB: Yes. Would you go back?

DM: Yes, I would go back, because I would just love to see the changes at McMurdo. I never did get to the South Pole. But I would love to see—I've seen pictures that the people have shown of McMurdo Sound. Of course Little America is gone. Yes, I would go back. If somebody put me on a plane or said to get down to wherever, I'd go back. Oh! Do you mean would I go back to winter over?

DOB: That was my next question.

DM: I don't think so. I'm seventy-six now. I guess I'm seventy-five; will soon be seventy-six in a month or so. I don't know that I would want to winter over there fifteen months. I don't think they do that long now. I think it's more like nine months when they get down. I would love to go down there, and I would especially love to go to the South Pole—the South Pole station. Now even McMurdo Sound knowing what it was and knowing the pictures I've seen what it was like, I'd go. I think people like Dick Bowers have gone down again, and I don't know who else has gone down. Oh yes, I'd do it . . . immediately.

DOB: Let me ask you some general questions. First I'd like to start with a list of people, and I'd like you to tell me what you thought of these people and why particularly. I think you've spoken about some of them already. For example, Admiral Dufek. Was he the right man for the job?

DM: You know, Admiral Dufek was a retired Navy captain and then came back to active duty as a rear admiral, from what I understood. That was like giving you a tombstone promotion. You're getting paid as an 06 but he became an 07, an honorary title, but I guess he went back on active duty, the way I understood it. He seemed like a bit of a publicity hound. He liked that type of thing. Is Admiral Dufek still living?

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 22

DOB: No.

DM: I guess maybe he was probably good for it. He was a handsome, gray-haired man, and in all his arctic paraphernalia, he looked the part of a real explorer. But you know, maybe it's not even fair to say this. After all, he had the responsibility of a task force, and I guess he was good for the job.

I didn't have that much dealings with Admiral Dufek. If you ever mentioned my name to him, he probably wouldn't even know—yes, he would know, because I did almost get insubordinate twice in his company and in the company of his operations officer. It probably wouldn't be a good thing either because I . . . at times I almost forgot about rank when I was down there, and I did not care who I was talking to. If I was really upset, I would just tell people off something terrible, including Dave Canham who pulled me aside several times. This is the point when we were still in Davisville. He said, "Be careful what you're saying, especially when you're talking to Whitney or me." I said, "Well, I've got a responsibility here and there's this—." "Yes, but just be careful. We have a rank-type thing in the Navy, and you remember it." Anyway, it got bad.

Admiral Dufek . . . I don't know. I think he probably liked publicity, but maybe he was good for the task force because he did give good publicity.

DOB: Did you ever meet Admiral Byrd?

DM: Yes. Yes, I met Admiral Byrd. It was terribly sad. I thought it was very sad when I met him. I met him in Norfolk, Virginia, and . . . hmmmmm. How can I say this? In the first place, I heard him giving a speech, sort of like a going-away—you know, he flew to Christchurch and we went down on ships. But his departing speech to the personnel on the three ships that were going down didn't make a particle of sense to me. It didn't make any sense, as I recall. Now I can't even think what it was about.

Of course, if you've read some of his things, he was . . . he did have a problem at one time when he was in isolation with all the smoke inhalation problems, and I think it really did affect him. Because when I saw him at that going-away speech, and I don't know if anybody else has told you that, I said, "It's not making sense. It just doesn't make a particle of sense to me whatever he's saying." I remember saying that, and now I don't even . . . I mean as if, you know, "I'll see you in Christchurch and then we'll charge on to the South Pole," and all that. Of course I admired him as a commander. I can remember as a kid seeing the picture "Byrd at the South Pole," and he was a young commander at that time, and he had that tri-motored aircraft. It meant a lot to me then. Then, years later, when I'm part of this expedition and I heard this, it just did not seem like the same man. Oh! I know where I talked to him. Aboard the Glacier. He went down on the Glacier from Christchurch, I think, to—I wasn't on that ship, but I heard . . . and his son was with him also. I think he was an historian, wasn't his son? You don't know? His son was on the Glacier also, and he had a USNR commission and was given just a commission to . . . I thought, do Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 23

something like you're doing. He was going to be an historian. Maybe Mrs. Byrd . . . is that his sister that we met?

DOB: Daughter.

DM: Daughter, yes. Well, I even heard on the Glacier that he was up with Captain Maher. The skipper of the Glacier was Captain Maher. I don't know if he's still living. At that time the Glacier was the biggest icebreaker in the world. Bigger than the Russian ones. Of course it isn't now. AGB-4, as I recall. Admiral Byrd went down on the Glacier from Christchurch to the ice, and as I understand he would be up on the bridge with Captain Maher—these are all hearsay stories—and that he literally just fell out of the chair, you know, on the bridge itself, in the captain's chair.

DOB: Was he not well?

DM: No, he was not well. Something had affected his mind from the time he was in the Antarctic alone. You've heard this story, haven't you? Because not only—we had a little commissioning ceremony at Little America 5, too—maybe they did the same thing at McMurdo Sound—where we raised the flag, and he gave a speech there, and I can remember turning to people and I said, "This man doesn't ever make any sense to me." But I think it's because of the smoke inhalation incident years ago. Have you heard of these stories?

DOB: Some.

DM: You've heard? Anyway, he never did make any sense to me. That's my opinion of Admiral Byrd.

DOB: How about Commander Whitney?

DM: Commander Whitney is gone, too, isn't he now?

DOB: I don't know. I think so.

DM: Yes, I think he is. Well, I've never seen him at a reunion, so he must be. I never saw him even at the first reunion we ever had. I forgot where that was. I think it was in Virginia Beach someplace. I don't think I ever saw him there. God. It's very bad talking about people like this.

DOB: You don't have to.

DM: No, I think . . . he was not a strong skipper, as far as I'm concerned. Remember one thing, engineers are engineers. He was a Civil Engineering Corps officer. If I was comparing Dick Bowers as a commander, who was just a j.g. at the time down there, and Commander Whitney, I think Dick Bowers had much more leadership qualities than Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 24

Commander Whitney ever did, and he was a four-striper—I mean a three-striper . . . a commander. But of course they're all engineers, you know. I'm not saying that's a bad thing or a good thing. I can even remember engineers at Cal. I always thought as a group they were an odd bunch. [Laughs] But Commander Whitney was extremely good to me. I can't fault him in that way. You really don't know whether he's living or not? I'm sure he's not.

DOB: He was much older than everybody else then.

DM: Right, he was. And I'm sure if he was around, you would've interviewed him because after all, he was—he was Dave Canham's boss, he was everybody's boss. If you weren't VX-6, he was your boss.

DOB: Well, let me ask the next one in two parts. One is how important do you think religion is at an isolated base like this? And then tell me about Peter Bol's role.

DM: Oh my. This is—of course Peter's gone, but . . . well, he was absolutely useless, as far as I'm concerned. He really was. It was like day and night between John Condit, our Catholic chaplain who was at McMurdo, and . . . . I don't think the men ever . . . if any of them had problems—I don't recall there were that many problems. Maybe there were, but I was unaware of them. But I don't think I ever knew anyone who went to the chaplain. Chaplain Bol, even for the most part, just stayed in his little room. I very seldom ever saw him, and yet he only lived two little cubbyholes down from me and I hardly ever saw him.

Like at night sometimes in the middle of the night some of us would get together and play bridge or poker or something like that—I'm talking about it's like in July in the middle of the Antarctic night—and he was not there among us. There was Commander Whitney, Bob Graham, Vic Young, me. Now Dr. Ehrlich lived in the dispensary itself. Oh! And Commander Whitney lived in the dispensary, too. And the rest of us, the rest of the officers lived in a . . . we had our own area. But Whitney lived in where Dr. Ehrlich was. Ed was extremely well liked. He was just a fabulous guy anyway. But Chaplain Bol was not the person to send down to a group like that. Condit had been with the Marine Corps, and he really . . . I don't know how good a chaplain he was, but he was a wonderful entertainer and a booster of morale. Condit was just this way. Just up and going, happy guy. He always was that way.

And Bol just didn't . . . it's a bad thing to say about him, but it wasn't the place for him at all. If people tell you the truth, you're not going to get it just from me. Everybody you're going to hear is going to say this. He wasn't the man for a thing like that. He just wasn't. Nobody ever saw him, in the first place. We never had . . . well, if we did, I never recall church services down there. I never recall a church service.

At McMurdo they actually built a little chapel, and there's a good story of John Condit, Chaplain Condit. He would grab guys away and say, "Now will you put my chapel up. Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 25

Do that. Get my chapel." And then old Dave Canham would say, "John, I don't want you taking these guys away from their jobs." But John was a go-getter, whereas Chaplain Bol wasn't at all. He wasn't the person to have down there.

DOB: Who really made things go at Little America?

DM: Who made things go? You know what? I'll give you some people. I think Chief Moss was a gigantic person. And I'm probably going to name all the chiefs. Chief Moss was outstanding. Chief McInvale, who you won't hear very much of, I don't think. He was our chief commissaryman. Just stupendous—worked for me, but stupendous—just great what he did with food. Chief Stroup is another one. I don't think these guys were chiefs. No, Chief Stroup maybe made chief down there, I don't know. I think he was a first class at the time. But anyway . . . who else?

DOB: Why were they so good?

DM: They had lots of leadership qualities, especially Chief Moss. He had a lot of leadership qualities. He just did. Of course he was loud and boisterous, and there's nothing backward about Chief Moss. He's just out there. To this day he's like that, and he's just a dear fellow. You knew where you stood with him. I don't know, I think he was just great.

DOB: What makes a good leader?

DM: What makes a good leader? Well, when people respect you and everybody did Chief Moss. So now why did we respect Moss? He knew how to get things done, he did it in such a way that you didn't feel . . . I don't even think they ever felt subordinate to Chief Moss. Maybe they did feel subordinate, but they knew if he gave them direction he knew what he was doing. I always get this. Maybe even if he didn't, he sounded as if he did. That has a lot to do with leadership, too, I think. He was well liked; he knew his job. And Ed Ehrlich. Everybody liked Dr. Ehrlich, too. I think Ed . . . I'm sure from what I've heard, not from Ed but from other people who would go and confer with Ed Ehrlich—they wouldn't go to Chaplain Bol, they'd go to see the doctor, but he acted more as a chaplain and not a doctor. Now I never had . . . I don't think I've ever had a real problem in my entire life, I mean a real personal problem, so I never had that type of a thing.

This leads off to a little story. I used to belong to . . . some people got me to do senior peer counseling here in Lodi. I said, "I would be the worst kind of—" and I went through a long training period. But I said, "I haven't had the responsibilities that most people have had. I mean I haven't had . . . ." I was going to say I haven't had a wife, children, all the problems that go with families. I've never had anything like that. I've led a completely different life, so I don't feel how I can appreciate other people's problems that have gone through family problems.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 26

Well, it ended up this gal who was the senior peer counselor here in Lodi . . . we have a big farming community out here—this is off the story a little bit—but she got me to work with older people. We have men who have lost their wives and almost become recluses thereafter, like this farmer I went up to see. I said, "You have got to get out around people and socialize." His reply was always, "Will you be back to talk with me?" And I said, "Yes, I'll be back. But you've got to get out of the house and do something."

So I talked to my leader, Vivian, and she said, "Tell him some day you can't come, that he'll have to come into the senior center and you'll talk to him there, that your car is broken down. Lie to him if you have to." Anyway, I did. He always wanted me to come back and talk to him. I was the only one around; the only friend he had. I finally got him to come into town. He met some people who played pinochle. In other words, I got him out of his reclusive stage. Back to your point, I never had a problem down there, personal or with others.

DOB: You were talking about Ehrlich's leadership.

DM: Ehrlich's leadership. Oh! See, I've gone off on a tangent. I've just heard this that people went in to see Ed Ehrlich . . . oh! I know Ed once said to me, "One of the cooks is having a bit of a problem. I've asked him to see you." He said, "He won't tell you, Don. You're the one who writes his fitness report. He came in to see me. He says he just doesn't know whether he can last this long." He has to last this long, although they did have a problem over at . . . you know about that?

DOB: Yes.

DM: With one of the cooks over on McMurdo. We never did. But this one cook I'm talking about I guess was almost going to go off the deep end, too. But he [Ehrlich] said, "He won't talk to you, Don, because you'll put something in his" . . . not his fitness report, but whatever they are, evaluation reports. And he said, "But he's talked to me, so be careful how you handle him."

They went to see Dr. Ehrlich. And I'm sure there were others who did that. They didn't feel they could go to Vic Young. Vic is . . . you haven't talked to Vic yet. Vic might be a little bit of a Hess type. You know, things are "black and white and there are no shades of gray." Anyway, you'll like Vic. He's really . . . I think maybe Vic has mellowed because he hasn't been to the last two reunions, so I guess there seems to be a little problem somewhere, health problems I think.

But anyway, Ed Ehrlich. He was another one of the best things that happened down there. As far as the officer corps goes, he was good.

DOB: Is there somebody in particular for you that you met that you just really admired or respected?

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 27

DM: Yes, but not who was with me down there, was Dave Canham. Dave and I became very close at the—I don't know why we did. In fact, I have my private license, but Dave was a flyer. He was a 1310. He was a reserve officer but a Navy flyer, and even while we were at Quonset Point and Davisville, he had to get his flight time in. You know, all pilots do. And he got to do so much night flying, and we'd fly down to New York or fly over the city or something like that just to get his flight time in. And he didn't take another pilot, he always took me because I love to fly and he let me fly the plane and all that type of thing.

We became very, very, very close, and of course then I knew his wife, both of them—he had some problems out there. In fact, I met Dave, little Dave that is, for the first time at this reunion, but I knew him when he was about four months old—he wouldn't remember that—in Virginia.

But I guess my closest friend was Dave Canham. Maybe Ed Ehrlich, too, now. I felt very close to Ed and I felt very close to Dave Canham, too. And see, after Dave was out of the Navy, he was in charge of Ph.D. programs at the University of Texas and a lot of things like that. And he also had something to do with our Sacramento State up here at one time or other, so he lived in Sacramento in one of the suburbs of Sacramento, and I would see him up there a lot.

We kept in close touch, and when he had to move back to wherever he moved to, then he would write me and I could tell he was having problems. He said, "I'm still playing tennis, but"—because you know he died like at fifty-six or some horrible young age. But he was a big tennis player and we played a lot at Davisville. Of course you didn't know him. Well, you saw his son. Well, Dave was a big strapping guy, you know, and full of energy, and every day if we had time after work or something, he and I would always get a tennis game in. Maybe because we played those things together and I flew with him a lot, I became very close to Dave, although of course he went to McMurdo and I went to Little America 5.

And he's also another one who said, "Don, you should be over here. You shouldn't be there." This is when the few times we talked by radio and I'd be talking to Hess. When Whitney would be talking to Dave, I would hear Dave say, "You know, we've got the wrong people in the wrong place," things like that. "Mehaffey should be helping me over there." I'm sure he would have liked it, and I would've liked to have done it, too.

But the strong people, I think Moss comes to light and also Aldrich comes to light. Chief Aldrich. He was Doc Ehrlich's right-hand man. I think I admired all the chief petty officers an awful lot. They're really the guts of the Navy, as far as I'm concerned.

DOB: They sound like an unusually fine bunch.

DM: They really are an unusually fine group. And even Chief Hess, you know, I could say . . . even during the stages in Davisville, he said, "I think we should do this this way, Don"—he didn't say Don, but—"I think we should be doing something this way." I said, "I Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 28

don't think so." He said, "Well, we'll try it your way, but this is the way we really should do."

And at one time, Chief Hess had to go over my head and went right to Dave Canham—now we're at Davisville. To show you how close Dave Canham and I were, one night Dave calls me up to his room at the BOQ, and he says, "This is Commander Canham to Lieutenant Mehaffey." (Not "Dave to Don.") You're going to have a mutiny on your hands, Don." He said, "Chief Hess has been to see me." Towards the end of our time at Davisville, I said there's not going to be any leave for the supply people. Well, a lot of the guys weren't married, but anyway, at least they'll see their parents or girlfriend or something like that. You know, have like three or four days to get home before we shove off, and I said, "No. We're not doing that. We're at our most critical time right now; nobody's going on leave." So I canceled leave for all my supply people.

So Hess went over my head and went right to Canham. I knew this, he told me afterwards. Dave said, "You've got to do something about this. Everything will still work out. You've got to give every guy at least three days off for leave. For those who have to go to the West Coast, you're going to give them a week or something like that." I said, "I can't do that." He said, "Well, you're doing it. I'm ordering you to do it."

My point being, Chief realized what he had to do, he knew the enlisted personnel better than I did, and he knew what he had to do, and he didn't feel he could talk to me about it. At one of our reunions, Chief Hess and I talked a lot about this incident. I said, "I know about that now." He said, "Yes, I knew you were upset about that time," and I was. I was really upset with everybody, and I was just—didn't keep hardly a civil tongue in my head. You know, "Everybody's got to do this, do this, do this, and nobody's going on leave." Of course everything worked out and everybody went on leave. But he did it better than I did.

DOB: That's generous of you to say.

DM: No. Well, when you think of things afterwards, it is different. Anyway, but he had some rough times, and I thought I was having a rough time, and these are things I had to do. Dave would say, "But you have to think of people first," and I said, "To hell with the people." And again, I guess that's my—never having a wife or stuff like that, you know. I just thought, you guys don't have to go. I just took it from my own situation. You know, we've got work to do, we're going to work up till the very last minute, so everybody's going to stay here.

DOB: Tell me about alcohol and its use on the ice, in practice and in policy, and whether you thought it was handled well.

DM: Well, I'm trying to think about that. Except for down—you mean generally or when they're there?

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 29

DOB: On the ice.

DM: On the ice. Well, I will drink now and then to be sociable. I've never liked it, and to this day I don't like it. I don't even like beer. If I go someplace I'll have a Scotch and soda, and I can make that last for five hours if I have to.

[End Side B, Tape 1]

[Begin Side A, Tape 2]

DOB: I asked you about the use of alcohol because among the leaders at the various stations there's considerable difference of opinion as to whether and how much liquor should be served. And I just wondered if you had any observations about that.

DM: Well, of course you know in the cold, cold, cold climate, alcohol hits you real quickly, and it's not a problem with me. I guess we rationed the beer down there, I think like two cans per person per day. We only had beer, except of course Dr. Ehrlich had medicinal alcohol, rum, you know, the type of thing they give pilots when they've had a crash or something like that. Even aboard carriers they have that. Ed Ehrlich dispensed some rum to our chief commissaryman who made rum ice cream. That type of thing happened, and that went over well. But I don't recall if we had any alcohol problem on the ice. I think people can go without alcohol. Every once in a while when I was aboard ship, we'd have—now I'm thinking of World War II—we'd leave the ship and say we were near some little island out there, they would let half the crew go over and have a picnic on an island or something like that just to have a beer. So I guess it is important. To me it's not important, but . . . .

I don't know how it was handled at Little America. I don't think I ever saw anybody drunk down there. Again, maybe I had blinders on and didn't realize it. Wait a minute. I'm going to have to backtrack there. Yes, we did. You know, where some people would—say everybody got two cans of beer per day. Well, I don't drink it so I'll give you my two, so you're going to have maybe eight things of beer, something like that. I think I saw a couple of the guys get overloaded a time or two. But I think it was handled all right at Little America. I'd be interested in what other people told you when we get that thing [tape recorder] off.

DOB: Okay. We'll talk about that. How did you respond to having sunlight for twenty-four hours a day and then later darkness all day?

DM: It didn't bother me at all. I can remember going through a psychiatric test at Newport, Rhode Island, hospital. I think the question they asked me was like, why was I even interested in going to the Antarctic or some strange thing. And I think I said—not now, but at that time—"It was the only place in the world I couldn't go on my own." In fact, I think that's what I told the task force people or the bureau when they asked me if I wanted Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 30

to go to the Antarctic. I said, "Yes. I don't think I'd ever be able to go down there on my own and I'd like to see it."

But I don't recall that the twenty-four hours of darkness ever bothered me one way or the other. Never never never did. I've never had a problem like that. Now the more you ask me these things, the more I'd like to know how it affected other people. I never had a personal problem because of being in darkness for a long time. Just turn on more lights. [Laughs] That's true.

DOB: And I think you've alluded to this, but my question is, were you ever truly scared?

DM: No. Never. I never never ever ever. If I ever was—I'll never forget when the Glacier was there. I went over to the Glacier to talk to somebody, and the Glacier was sort of up on the ice like this with a Jacob's ladder out, and I said, "Well, I'm going to leave now." And they said, "Well, you're going to have to go off the bow because we don't have a gangplank onto the ice, so you're going to have to go down that ladder."

Well, I climbed and went down—but it turned on me, and now I've got my back up against the ship. And then there's ice cold water below, and then the Jacob's ladder extended over the water, then out like that to the ice, but now I'm over water. I hollered and said, "Somebody come and twist this thing around!" And I didn't think anybody was going to hear me. If I was ever scared, it was that time.

But really, was I ever worried about the Antarctic night or about the shelf falling off or anything like that? Never ever. I didn't give that a thought, and I don't know why. Did anybody?

DOB: Oh yes. Some people had problems with—

DM: I mean anybody you've talked to that had a problem with the Antarctic night?

DOB: We'll talk about it.

DM: I never . . . well maybe because . . . . I don't know. No, I never did. I never even gave it a thought, Dian.

DOB: You're a very together person.

DM: I never thought about that type of thing. I knew we were going to have a long time of darkness, but in our case, my God, we had lights in the building all the time. And I used to go out and watch the aurora australis now and then and those type of things. It never bothered me at all.

DOB: Tell me about the aurora.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 31

DM: It was just a fascinating thing. Of course I'd been up in Alaska and seen the aurora borealis. I didn't know what an aurora australis was except that it's a thing that goes on in the southern lights instead of the northern lights. It was just a fascinating thing to see, just waves of light. I can remember going out at the end of our long tunnel out there with three or four others. This is something. How many people see this type of thing? I was really taken aback with the southern lights, even though I had seen an aurora borealis up in the north.

But coming back, I can't imagine that the twenty-four hours of darkness really ever bothered anybody. None of the people, of the seventy-three people that I lived with . . . maybe it did. You've talked to them—I haven't. Maybe it did, but it certainly didn't bother me. Even the isolation never bothered me. I'm very good at being alone. I've been alone all my life.

DOB: It's rather paradoxical because it's a very lonely place in the sense of being big and you're very isolated, and yet at the same time confined in a very small space with the same people day after day.

DM: With the same people all the time. You know, well, that's one of the things they talk to you about when you went through the psychological thing up at that Newport hospital. But I said, "No, I'm sure isolation"—I think I said this, I don't know—"but isolation would never ever bother me."

In fact, there are times I've . . . I enjoy being alone. I even have a problem in this house when my cousins, sometimes they come up to ski, they come up from San Francisco or from Portola Valley, which is near Palo Alto out by Stanford. When they come to this place and they'll stay here all night, and then we'll all go on up to Squaw or someplace like that to ski. I about go crazy when I have someone staying here at night, because I only have one other bedroom and they're sleeping on the floor all over the house. I love people around in the daytime, but boy, when I go to bed at night, I don't want anybody in my house. And that's a thing I—that's from living alone all my life, and I don't think I can hardly go to sleep when somebody's inside my house at night.

And yet I know people who just can't do otherwise. Like I have a friend I play tennis with, this gal, Evelyn Rich . . . gal, she's seventy years old. After her husband died, she just didn't know when there's nobody in the house at night, how she would go on. I said, "That's funny, Evelyn. I'm just the opposite." Anyway, loneliness isn't a thing with me and it never has been.

DOB: Okay. Another subject entirely. The military no longer has a major role in the Antarctic. What difference do you think that will make?

DM: Well, of course I always thought it was a case of logistical terms. We'll build the places, we'll help you get down. Some Air Force reserve outfit out of New York is flying them down in 124s, I understand now. I think it's rather sad that the Navy is no longer part of it. Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 32

I didn't really think of Air Force or Army, but the Air Force is a big part of the transportation type of thing now.

But I think it's sort of sad that the Navy won't be a part of the Antarctic. They always have been, starting with Admiral Byrd, as far as I'm concerned, and now I guess this is the end. But there's no other place except outer space to be discovered. I'm sad to see it go with the decommissioning of VX-6.

DOB: The end of an era.

DM: End of an era. That's true.

DOB: Tell me when you were there, how much were you aware of or concerned with world affairs? The world was a pretty scary place in the 1950s.

DM: Isn't it funny? I think now the whole year of '56 I was out of this world. [Pause in recording]

DOB: I was asking you about world affairs.

DM: Oh. You know, I'm changing it a little bit. I talked home via ham radio . . . I talked to my parents and friends of mine in Houston, Texas, and places like that more often when I was down there than I ever do when I'm home. I never called my parents at home when I was going to Berkeley or even when I was living on the East Coast. I never called them. It's not the type of thing I do. I just don't phone people.

Vic Young used to operate the ham radio a lot and other guys, too. "Hey, Don, we've got a phone patch for you into San Francisco. Do you want to talk to your mom and dad?" I said, "No, I don't. I don't have anything to say to them." Or my friend from Houston, Texas. They'd say, "Hey, we've got"—well, you used to go through a phone patch in Schenectady, New York. I don't know how that happened, but they were always able to get that. And they said, "We can get Sherra Cox on the phone if you want to talk to her." I said, "No, I just talked to her three days ago."

My point being, I didn't feel that isolated.

DOB: I was referring more to—

DM: To world events?

DOB: Well, yes, and this was the Cold War and—

DM: What great things went on in 1956? I can't even think of it. I really can't.

DOB: You've answered the question. Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 33

DM: I must've been interested, of course, but we had our own little lives, and I guess that was all that interested me at the time.

DOB: Today in Antarctica, one of the big issues is environmental concerns. Did you worry about the environment much?

DM: I don't know that I worried about it then, but after I keep thinking about the things—I understand they're bringing all the scrap and fifty-five-gallon drums and all that stuff back now. Because it was such a pristine continent, I think, oh my God, is it going to become the pollution place like the rest of the world can become if we don't watch it? Yes, environmentally, things like this don't worry me a great deal, but I hate the thought of it being a dumping ground of people, you know, having like a big picnic there and then leaving all your trash around. I hate that and I think this idea of having to bring things home is great. I really do.

DOB: One of the big issues now—

DM: About the hole in the . . . what am I trying to think about?

DOB: Oh, the ozone hole.

DM: Yes, the ozone hole, right. And I keep thinking, is that really a big thing or not? I hear pros and cons. Oh, that's not going to be a bad thing. I hear somebody on the radio that doesn't think it is. Vice President Gore thinks it's terrible, you know, that type of thing. But I'd hate to see the Antarctic become a polluted area, if it ever could.

DOB: One of the issues that is of concern now, partly because of that, is tourism.

DM: Yes. That surprises me. I think most of the tourism is down the Antarctic Peninsula off of South America. My next-door neighbor is a tour director. She's seventy-six years old, I think now, but she's a tour director, and she took a group on . . . what's the outfit that goes down there? Well anyway, they went down to the tip of South America and then say they'd been to the Antarctic, and I'm sure they were. And I said, "That's completely different, I'm sure." Where I was at the complete opposite end of Antarctica, you know, in McMurdo and Little America.

DOB: Is it a good thing?

DM: No, I don't think it is a good thing, only because I think of more people, more pollution. But I guess what they're doing if they fly into McMurdo, they just go in and out or just fly over it. Are they going into McMurdo Sound actually?

DOB: Some, I suppose. I don't know.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 34

DM: Oh. Because of when I think of people going in on the Antarctic Peninsula, they're not going into the part where the Ross Sea Ice Shelf is and that type of thing. I'm trying to think . . . I keep thinking of the group that has the ship that goes into . . . they went on up to . . . .

DOB: I can't remember their name.

DM: Anyway, I showed local people here a bunch of my pictures, and they had never seen that part of the Antarctic. They knew the Antarctic Peninsula, but when I showed them the Ross Sea Ice Shelf and things like that, they were just startled. My travel agent neighbor was just fascinated with my pictures. That's not the type of thing they saw at all. Well, tourism . . . is it Lombard? No. [Inaudible] or something that does the Antarctic [Lars-Eric Linblad] . . . there's a shipping outfit that actually takes tours down there. Do they have tours going in from New Zealand?

DOB: I don't know.

DM: I don't think so. Well, I don't like to see it as a tourist attraction, but after all, we all want to see all the world. That's the reason I volunteered to go down there, because I wanted to see it, thinking I never would see it. And now that I think back, I wouldn't have had to volunteer. I could've gone down . . . . [Laughs] But if somebody asked me if I wanted to go back, and you did, if I got the chance I'd go. Not to winter over, but I'd love to take a week's trip down there. I'd get myself right to New Zealand if they would get me in there. I've been to New Zealand many times since that trip.

DOB: Well, but the purpose of the work that you did on the ice was to make possible the International Geophysical Year—

DM: That's right. We were supposed to set bases up for the scientists.

DOB: —and that in turn laid the basis for the Antarctic Treaty which was signed in 1959. It was negotiated in 1959.

DM: Yes. You want to see something? I wrote a master's thesis on this. Do you want to see it? I'll show it to you.

DOB: I certainly do. Do you think that the Antarctic Treaty is going to be successful indefinitely in preserving the continent for peaceful purposes and for science?

DM: I just wonder about that, because there are certain people who say, "This is our part." We don't recognize anything down there. We don't recognize that anybody owns any of that land or any of the parts of the Antarctic, that it's . . . I don't even know if the Antarctic Treaty is still in force. Is it?

DOB: Yes. Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 35

DM: The 1959 Antarctic Treaty?

DOB: Yes.

DM: I wished it would stay as a . . . that nobody would recognize it, it's for all of us, but to keep it the pristine place that it used to be, or probably still is, but nobody owns any sector of it.

DOB: And do you think it's possible that that'll keep happening?

DM: No, I really don't think it's possible, because I think people like—well, the Russians are weakening out now. In fact, I don't know who all the signatories of the Antarctic Treaty are. At one time I knew it. I'll show you in my thesis, which I did in '72. But no, I wish it would be free from all the pollution and free from . . . just to keep it the pristine place that it is or at least I thought it was.

DOB: Is the science—

DM: Science. Right, right. Because after all, let's face it. All our weather comes from the—well, I mean in the southern hemisphere there. I think the scientists should be there and do the ecological studies, the studies of the sea, and all the stuff with the plankton. But some of these theories are real stupid. One time they were thinking of dragging icebergs up to the north and let them melt or something and provide water and that type of thing. Well, that's absolutely ridiculous.

DOB: What are you most proud of from your time on the ice?

DM: Most proud of. Well, I guess that I was even asked to go down there, because I was really asked to go down at that time, because we always have to consider what time we're talking about. This was 1955, and I was fat, dumb, and happy in New Orleans and just loving . . . the furthest south I'd ever been was New Orleans. Well, no, that's not quite right. And to think of going to . . . I probably had to come home and look to see where the Antarctic was.

What am I most proud of? Just being a part of the first real . . . of a large contingent, although we weren't large as a wintering-over group. I'm very proud of being a member of Deep Freeze I.

And actually, to tell you the truth, it's not so much now, but soon after I got home, lots of people were interested in the things that . . . "You've been to the Antarctic?" Even today, somebody will ask about polar bears, and I said, "I'm talking of the South Pole. There are no Eskimos." People really, when they think of a frigid zone, they think of Eskimos, and I said, "We have seals. We don't have polar bears and that type of thing down there." You'd be surprised how ignorant people are of the area because there was just no interest in it. That's changed, I think. Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 36

When I give a talk I usually first put up a map and I say, "I want you to realize what I'm talking about." I've got the Antarctic map and "Way down here, off of South America. Don't ask me about Eskimos and polar bears," because really the Antarctic and the Arctic just don't seem to mean a great deal to lots of people. I mean my older friends that live right around here—people my age. It hasn't been big in their lives. And when I show this to this group of people who lived here, they were just fascinated . . . just absolutely fascinated.

DOB: What's your favorite story to tell a group like that?

DM: Well, I guess now we're going back to the beginning, the first sighting of a thing like this—

DOB: The barrier ice.

DM: I saw an iceberg way off. I've got a picture of the first iceberg, too. I took it with a telescopic lens. In fact, I think Ed Ehrlich took it and gave me the picture. And I saw the first iceberg but it was way far off, you know, and when we finally got to this area, this pristine, gorgeous, white continent—

DOB: The shelf.

DM: —the ice shelf, which is really all I really saw was the ice shelf. Realize I didn't go to McMurdo. I didn't see all this volcanic ash. To me, when I did get to McMurdo Sound, I thought it was dirty. Everything was so clean where we were at Little America, and it was so . . . just dirt and that black ash, at least where I was. Anyway, just this type of thing here. I'll remember this more than anything else. Not the first iceberg. Just to see the ice shelf was most interesting to me.

DOB: Well, maybe this will lead into a question that I ask everyone and that is, if you were an artist and you could paint on one canvas the essence of Antarctica, what would be in your painting?

DM: Hmmmm.

DOB: The Antarctic experience for you is what I'm talking about.

DM: I would want it in the middle of a light day, just a contrast between the blue sky and the stark white snow. I don't think in the form of penguins or seals or anything like that. I think of just pristine, pure, clean . . . cleanliness, I guess. Pure white cleanliness. That's the part I like, and that's why I'm so enthusiastic about attempts to keep the continent pristine, yet I realize science must continue. Three hundred people at McMurdo astounds me.

Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 37

DOB: All right. Thank you. Paul Siple wrote in his book that "the Antarctic generally wields a profound effect on personality and character," and he said practically nobody is the same after they've been there for a while. Do you agree with that statement? And were you changed? DM: No. I haven't changed at all. I think maybe the more I talk to people like you, I think my life is completely different than most people's. That didn't change my life. I met new friends and that kind of thing, but it didn't change my life at all.

DOB: Did it change your character or your personality?

DM: No, I don't think it changed my personality at all. In fact, people who I've known in high school and I haven't seen for forty or fifty years—we had like a sixtieth reunion—and they say, "Oh my God, Don, you're just the same as we knew you when you were seventeen." Really. And I don't think it's changed me at all. It was a wonderful experience, but . . . I wonder how often I think about it. If you weren't here right now, I probably—well, if somebody asked me or somebody looked at this picture and said, "Where's that taken?" I'd say, "Well, that's the Antarctic." "You were in the Antarctic? Way down there?" I don't ever think about that. I really don't. Has it changed my personality? Is that what you asked me?

DOB: Yes.

DM: Oh no. I'm sure it hasn't. I'm not the deep thinker that Paul Siple was, and of course he went down there as a young Boy Scout with Admiral Byrd. What was he? About sixteen or seventeen or something like that? A very impressionable age. My God. I was thirty-two when I went down there. It didn't change my life at all.

DOB: Okay.

DM: And I'm so interested that you ask a question like that, and I would certainly be interested in what other people say.

DOB: I get very mixed responses on that.

DM: Because now people like Bev, I really hardly knew Bevilacqua because he was at McMurdo. He wasn't where I was. But that's been almost his entire life since he came home. I mean he came home the same time I did in '57. I think he's really made a big thing of it. Dick Bowers, it certainly made a huge change in Dick Bowers' life, I think, because they do so much about it. Between reunions, I don't think about any of that.

At Christmastime I write greetings to Vic, Dick, and others. And there's one guy who sends all of us a Christmas card from Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. He writes the most beautiful Christmas cards. Have you ever seen any of the Christmas cards that he's written? Bob . . . what in the world his name is. He always has something about the Antarctic night in it. He loves this, and he makes this whole thing up on his computer Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 38

and uses the most gorgeous scenes, and he talks about the days of long ago. Just beautiful poetry. And it had a profound effect on him. Bob Kenny. Did you ever talk to him?

DOB: No.

DM: Well, you're not too far from Mechanicsburg. I'm surprised they haven't . . . Bob Kenny, yes. For a long time I kept this. When I go and look for my . . . maybe I kept his Christmas card in it because it's the first Christmas card every year, and he always talks about the Antarctic nights and how we all lived down there together, so he thinks about that a lot. Obviously he does because he writes such beautiful stuff about it.

And Dick thinks a lot about it. I think people like George Moss probably do . . . Bev. The enlisted guys that were down there, some of them that I see at these reunions now I really didn't know that well, especially the McMurdo people. There's extreme enthusiasm. There's an awful lot of enthusiasm among those guys. I don't have that, and I never did.

DOB: You sound like an enthusiastic person to me.

DM: Well, I know, but not necessarily about that. When I was there I was enthusiastic. I'll probably think about it a little more just because you have been here. I'll think about you know, the dumb things that I said to Dian. And then I'll say, well, I'll probably review some stuff just to look at it. I've never had that book out in . . . I could hardly find it today because I have so many books back there.

But it didn't make a profound difference in my life. When I came home and got started on new ventures in life, and even with the Navy or even after the Navy—until we started having these reunions, because we didn't have them immediately. I don't know, it could've been twenty years after we had the first one. I can remember the first one being in Virginia Beach, as I recall. It was only Deep Freeze I at that time. That's the only people we had. We didn't have the Deep Freeze II people.

Between that time and after I finished all this speech stuff and got out of the Navy and started a whole other career type thing, I never gave it a thought until I started going to these reunions, except when I write to people like Ed Ehrlich and Dave Canham, for that time, and when I write to those people or Vic Young and George Moss, which I hear from all the time. I hear from these guys every Christmas. From Christmastime until the next Christmas, I never think of it again.

DOB: Well, I have one more question for you, and the question is, what haven't I asked you that you've been waiting to tell me?

DM: With bated breath, huh? I don't think I can think of anything. When I think back, I loved the experience. I'm so glad I did this. I'm so glad I was asked to go down. Of course we didn't have to go, you know. We were all volunteers. And that I did go, and that I would love to go back if somebody would give me the opportunity to go back, not Donald Mehaffey Interview, March 30, 1999 39

necessarily to winter over. You know, when you've gone from thirty-three to seventy-six, little things change in your life. I don't like hardships as much as . . . I even go to the snow when . . . I like to stay in a nice beautiful condominium or something like this.

What haven't you asked me about? I guess all I can say is that I loved the experience, I'm glad that I was able to take part in it, and I enjoyed the guys that I wintered over with—most of them. So many of them I'm sure I've forgotten because I didn't know them that well, and we didn't have a reunion for such a long time. Let's face it. At the last reunion, from Deep Freeze I Little America, there were only ten of us there. Do you recall? There were only ten of us that . . . McMurdo had a lot more than we did. But it might've been some from Deep Freeze II at Little America, but there were only ten of us.

I know we had our pictures—in fact, I've asked Bev about that. I said, "When are we going to get these pictures we took? Remember when we took them on that stairway in that hotel at the Marriott?" I've never gotten any, and Bev said it'll be coming.

DOB: All right. Well, let's continue our conversation, but thank you so much. This has been really a fine afternoon.

DM: Thank you, Dian. And I'm sure when you hear this over, you'll say, "What in the hell did he say?" [Laughs]

DOB: Thanks for talking with me.

DM: Okay. Thank you.

[End of interview]