Newsletter– Special Issue Page 12| Newsletter| Special Issue NADT ree JohannesbuurgJohannesbuurg————CityCity of Gold! The Safari begins! The International Attachment of the officer trainees of the 64 th Batch of Indian Revenue Service (IRS) had two components. The theoretical in- put was provided by the ICA Institute, Kennesaw State University, Georgia, USA, after which the batch into groups to visit four countries, viz. Australia, Malaysia, the Netherlands and South Africa.

The South Africa Group comprised of 35 officer trainees (OTs) includ- ing 8 lady OTs and were accompanied by two faculty members from the National Academy of Direct Taxes, Nagpur. After a grueling 24-hour journey from Atlanta to Johannesburg via Houston and Dubai, the group landed in the City of Gold to a warm welcome by the Indian High Commission. The official visit began on Monday morning with the programme being inaugurated by Ms. Elsie Pule, Chief Human Resource Development Officer, South African Revenue Service, in the august presence of Mr. Mohit Yadav, First Secretary, Indian High Commissioner, South Africa.

Johannesburg is not one of South Africa’s three capital cities, but it is the seat of the Constitutional Court, the apex court of the land. It is also the largest me- tropolis in Sub-Saharan Africa, and its O.R. Tambo International Airport is the busiest in Africa. The city is currently celebrating 125 years of existence. It is gold and diamond mining hub, being situated in the mineral-rich Wit- watersrand Hills. The city has a popu- lation of 10.3 mil- To, lion. The weather in Johannes- burg was sunny, but the cool breeze provided res- PLACE PICTURE pite from the summer heat. It was a welcome HERE IN THE CIRLCE change from the – CROP PICTURE cold winter of Georgia. The city- scape and infra- INTO CIRCULAR structural facilities of Joburg, as it is SHAPE famously known, amazed the officer trainees and aroused curiosity in them to explore the city further. PLACE PICTURE HERE IN THE CIRLCE– CROP The course was inaugurated by Ms. Elsie Pule, Chief Officer, HRD, PICTURE INTO CIRCULAR SHAPE SARS, in the esteemed presence of Mr. Mohit Yadav, First Secretary, Indian High Commission. The NADTree Team . They spoke on the importance of India-South Africa relationship in the historical and present con- Editorial Committee Managing Editor Editorial Advisors text and the importance of the training programme. Then Mr. Aidan Keanly, Specialist, Interna- Adita Singh, Sanyam Joshi & Vikram Pagaria R Ravichandran N Jayasankar tional Relations, SARS, briefed the OTs about the history of SARS, peppering his talk with anecdotes from his long experience at SARS. Mr. Christopher Pholwane then talked about the Large Business Centre, the dedicated unit for (Officer Trainees,64th Batch of IRS) Additional Director General-II Additional Director (Faculty) high value taxpayers, and its structure and functioning. Marle van Niekerk from the Tax Policy Unit of the National Photographs: Sandeep GR & Meetu Agarwal Sanjay Joseph Treasury spoke to the OTs about the link between the National Treasury and the SARS in the first session post Newsletter Design: Ridhima Vashisht Deputy Director (Faculty), lunch. Her talk was followed by Dr. Thami Madinane, who outlined the details of the tax base of South African economy in his interesting talk. The first day then broke early. For any Correspondence /Queries, kindly contact Dr Vinay Kumar Singh , Additional Director ( Library), National Academy of Direct Taxes, Chhindwara Road, Nagpur— 440030. Tele-fax 0712-2584350; E mail– [email protected] The second day began with a talk by Franz Tomasek, who explained how the SARS is the sole revenue collection au- (Printed by the Printing & Publication Unit, NADT, Nagpur for the National Academy of Direct Taxes, Nagpur) thority for the whole of South Africa. He also detailed the process of tax legislation. Paul Carriera, Executive, Proc- Page 2| Newsletter| Special Issue Social Interactions Page 11| Newsletter| Special Issue cess Engineering opened the OTs’ eyes to the process of modernization. Mr. Randall Carolissen then delivered his lecture on revenue forecasting and analysis and spoke of the SARS capacity-building measures. He was followed by PRETORIA AD VALLEY OF WAVES Ms. Oshna Maharaj, who spoke on Tax Treaties, their benefits and challenges, as also on their basis in the New Constitution of South Africa. Post-lunch sessions were held by Michael Yates, who spoke on the appropriate use of The OTs were given the opportunity to visit Pretoria, the legislative capital of South Africa, on Day 5. The visit had been organ- technology in modernization of the tax administration systems and Ms. Desrae Lawrence, Manager, Gauteng prov- ized by the SARS officials. The grand complex of the Union Buildings, with its landscaped gardens and panoramic views mes- ince, who detailed the process of Audit (or assessment). Between these two was scheduled a visit to the Forensic merized the OTs and reminded them of the Parliament Complex and Rashtrapati Bhavan in New Delhi. The OTs also passed Lab,where the OT’s learned new means of search and seizure of electronic goods . through the diplomatic enclave in Pretoria. On the way to Pretoria we also saw abandoned gold mines in the famous Wit- Day 3 began with a walk around the Large Business Centre, with Mr. Obert guiding us through the various divisions watersrand Hills, the Johannesberg Football Stadium which hosted the FIFA World Cup final and the Centurion Park Cricket within SARS . Thereafter, Eric Neethling made a presentation on how SARS carries out enforcement and investiga- Ground. tions activities. This slightly serious presentation was followed by an interesting talk by Godfrey Modise on serving Thereafter, the delegation proceeded to Valley of Waves—a theme-based water park in Sun City. The park has an artificial river the customers with a smile. The session on Taxpayer Education by Wongokazi Majola and Devashini Govenda was and even an artificial beach. The OTs became water babies as they enjoyed the thrill in its wave pool and the various water informative and enriching about the techniques used to deal with the diverse customer base. Frank Groenewald took the last lecture of the day on ‘Leadership and Development’. He carefully explained to the Officer Trainees how one needs to have vision so that capacity building can be un- dertaken to create tomor- row’s leaders. After tea, the Offi- cer Trainees participated in a group discussion based on the case study concerning Domestic Resource Mobilisation. The interactive group discussion clarified concepts relat- ing to revenue forecasting and dealt with the capacity build- ing measures of SARS. Ms. Oshna Maharaj, took the next lecture on Tax Treaties, its benefits and challenges, which derive its legitimacy from the New Constitution of South Africa. Post-lunch ses- sions were held by Michael Yates, who spoke on the appro- priate use of technology in mod- ernization of the tax ad- ministration systems and Ms. MABULA VISIT Desrae Lawrence, Man- ager, Gauteng province, who ex- The Indian High Commission had a special plained the process of Audit (or assessment) in SARS. parting treat for the OTs. They were ac- The interlude between the two lectures was a visit to the commodated at the Mabula Private Game Forensic Lab, where the OT’s learned new means of search and seizure of the elec- tronic gadgets. Each session was Reserve at Bela Bela, a 12000 hectare accompanied by a summarization exercise undertaken by the Programme Director, Mr. Brandley Ngcobo. sanctuary for animals. Here the OTs could observe African wildlife at its best, and Day 4 aimed at synergizing ideas on the common issues of concern for South Africa and India. The sessions began enjoy it. The wildlife observed were the with a presentation on ‘Tax Information Exchange Agreements’ by Gaurav Pundir. Thereafter, there was a joint ses- Wildebeest, the Haartebeest, Impalas, the sion on “Skills Shortage” by Sandeep GR from NADT and Mr. Mamburu Mphahlele from SARS. The shortage of Oryx, the Eland and from amongst the Big skilled human resource along with the need for creating and nurturing ‘Skills Pipeline’ and instituting a ‘Re-skilling Five—the African Elephant, the Rhinoc- Programme’ was highlighted upon by the speakers. This was followed by a presentation on ‘Governance: The Opti- miser’ by Uma Maheshwari. It dealt with the structure of the Indian Direct Tax Administration System and how it eros, the African Buffalo and the Lion. The optimized the market expectations, the need to respect and protect human rights. Mr. Giorgio Radeisch from SARS last of the Big Five—the Leopard— emphasized concept of governance in determining the role of ‘right authority, taking the right decision, at the right however, being an elusive animal, was not time, in the right way’ and its significance in the globalized world. seen, though we were assured that they were very much there. From being charged The valediction ceremony of the delegation presided over by Mr. Mohit Yadav, First Secretary, Indian High Commis- at by the African elephant to being sion and in the presence of Ms. Elsie Pule, Chief HRD Officer, SARS took place post lunch. The representatives from growled at by the Lions, it was truly a hair SARS and the OTs from NADT shared their experiences of the training programme and gave their feedback. A for- mal vote of thanks was proposed to SARS officials which was accompanied by presenting of mementos from India. raising experience. The OTs thanked the authorities at SARS profusely for giving them an in-depth understanding of SARS as an insti- At night, the delegation was treated to a tution and its working. This interaction helped SARS authorities to enhance their knowledge of the Indian Direct Tax Zulu dance. The dancers not just show- Administration System and its progress in recent times. A special issue of the newsletter on the visit to South Africa cased their culture, but also invited the was released by the Chief Guest, Mr. Mohit Yadav. A visit to the Pieterson Museum and the Mandela Family Mu- Indian delegation to share ours. They seum in Soweto was planned for the later part of the day. After the intensive academic sessions for four days, the Programme Director Mr. Brandley Ngcobo promised the delegation a weekend filled with fun and frolic amidst the showed the some of their dance moves beauty of South Africa. and requested the OTs to join them— Srinivasu, Amit Pandey, Gaurav Pundir, Shweta Yadav and Meetu Agarwal happily did so. The meals were also traditionally African, and were thoroughly enjoyed by the OTs. Social Interactions Page 10| Newsletter| Special Issue Rendezvous with... Page 3| Newsletter| Special Issue Mr. Mohit Yadav, First Secretary, Indian High Commission

Q: What are unique features of the South Africa-India relation- SOWETO ship?

The academic sessions ended on Day 4 with the valediction of the OTs. This was Mr. Yadav: The two nations have followed a similar trajectory followed by a visit to the Hector Pietersen Museum at Soweto, a suburban town- at social, cultural and political levels emerging from the bond- ship of Johannesberg. This museum portrays the anti-apartheid movement of the age of colonialism. These have given two eminent world leaders Coloreds. The museum is a memorial to the students’ movements against the im- in the form of Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela who have position of Afrikaans, that began with the peaceful protest march in Soweto. How- changed the course of world history. Post-independence, both ever, the march was fired upon by the police, resulting in many deaths. nations have faced the challenge of integrating diverse cultures and promoting development. Most importantly, both are bea- The Museum visit made the OTs realize the epic struggle of the Coloreds to earn cons of democracy in politically volatile neighbourhoods. The their rights in their nation and also made them see South Africa in a new light. mutual political engagement has continued to the present times in the form of IBSA and other summits.

Q: Can you elaborate on the economic aspect of bilateral rela- tionship between India and South Africa?

Mr. Yadav: Being developing countries with similar interests, we share robust bilateral ties. The bilateral trade is presently worth $11.25 billion and is only likely to grow in the future. India and South Africa have 33 bilateral agreements pertaining to various issues, one of them being the bilateral Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement (DTAA), which has encouraged investments and greater economic cooperation.

Q: What is your view of such bilateral exchange programmes?

Mr. Yadav: Such collaborations are essential for promotion of cultural and political ties. These help in fostering in- tense cooperation and long-term engagements. The success of such exchanges is evident in the increased mutual vis- its by officers, at various levels, of both the countries.

(Mr. Mohit Yadav spoke to Adita Singh and Sanyam Joshi)

Ms. Elsie Pule, Chief Human Resource Development Officer,

Q: Could you talk about your experience with the South African Revenue Ser- vice (SARS)?

Ms. Pule: The present structure of SARS was put in place a decade ago. We have shifted from administrative-competence to value-added competence. The Museum visit was followed by visit to Mandela House, which is located close to the Museum. This is where Nelson Man- Automation and e-filing are significant milestones. We have also moved to- dela spent the early years of his struggle against apartheid, and to where he returned upon his release from prison in 1994. It wards customer satisfaction by instituting meaningful interactions with tax- now houses memorabilia of the Mandela Family. Though the premises were closed by the time of the delegation’s visit, yet we payers and resolution of tax issues at one level itself, minimizing the hassles felt privileged to be a part of history. The visit to Soweto, which was a mixed race neighbourhood during the Apartheid era, and for taxpayers. We have also strengthened our competence in dealing with com- hence bore the brunt of Apartheid policies, also brought the OTs face-to-face with the huge disparities of income in South Af- panies as demonstrated by the Large Business Centre here in Johannesburg and have managed to generate respect rica, and the monumental task before the SARS, to ensure that income distribution becomes more equitable. for ourselves as a State organization. However, certain challenges remain. Reduction in administrative costs and encouraging compliance are some that I consider a priority.

Q: How is training and recruitment conducted at SARS?

Ms. Pule: SARS has a multi-entry system. We are thereby able to leverage the competencies of people at various levels. To counter the problem of redundancy of workforce due to automation, we have retrained and redeployed people in various departments of the government. I was astonished when of your batch size as recruitment at SARS is done in comparatively smaller numbers. Apart from recruiting graduates we also recruit professionals at various levels. Rendezvous…(contd.) Page 4| Newsletter| Special Issue Social Interactions Page 9| Newsletter| Special Issue Lion Park Visit Q: Can you talk about your experience with the National Academy of Direct Taxes (NADT)? One of the prime attractions of South Africa being the Safari, the group visited the Lion’s Ms. Pule: I had the good fortune of interacting with two batches of officer trainees from the NADT, the 63 rd batch Park in Johannesburg. The park offered visits to camps of lion, wild dogs and cheetahs. and the present 64 th batch. I am impressed with the discipline, professionalism and competence exhibited by all the Besides, other African animals such as the Giraffe, the zebra, the participants. Some of the learning lessons for SARS to emulate are related to your recruitment process, training phi- ostrich and the wildebeest were also spotted. The Springbok, the losophy and work ethics. national animal of South Africa was also seen. The vast open (Ms. Elsie Pule spoke to Adita Singh and Sanyam Joshi) grounds of the park, with the animals freely roaming around, overwhelmed the OTs. The sighting of a pride of lions was a real treat for the eyes. The lions and lionesses were the most curious of all the animals, with one lioness even standing up to one of Mr. Randall Carolissen, Group Executive, Revenue Planning, Analysis & Reporting, SARS the vehicles to see who these super-excited beings were. The lions however took offence at their ladies being Q: Do the forecasts regarding potential tax liabilities of companies weaned away from them and let out their roars to mark reflect the economic conditions of the market? their territories. The most exciting part of the Safari in- Mr. Carolissen: Yes. Because we do not live merely in the world of volved close interaction with lion cubs allowing the officer statistics, but in the world of reality. We interact with the CEOs of trainees to have a playful time with them. companies and ask them about their plan for the next two to three years, plans for recruitment and retrenchment. It is a very complex exercise. We collect information regarding their economic affairs.

Q: How would you comment on fixing targets for tax collectors?

Mr. Carolissen: Targets must be fixed. We need to have planned framework. Moreover this is a psychological thing. One always tries to be over rated.

Q: Any suggestions for Indian tax system? OFFICIAL DIER Mr. Carolissen: Tax should not be viewed as a technical and compliance issue. It should be viewed as an issue of responsibility and awareness. When a citizen pays tax, he or she becomes more aware towards where the money is A short visit to Woodmead market after the academic sessions of the day gave an going. It helps in eradicating corruption. It is a must in a democracy. opportunity to explore the local markets of the city. On the evening of Day 3, the penultimate day of academic interactions, SARS had organized an official dinner for (Mr. Randall Carolissen spoke to Amanpreet Kaur and Bhagwati Charan ) the delegation from NADT. The dinner, hosted at Balalaika Hotel, was a wonder- ful affair. There were healthy interactions between the SARS officials and the OTs on topics ranging from Bollywood to local shop. The hall was buzzing with a thou- Ms. Desrae Lawrence, Senior Manager, Audit Operations, Gauteng Region, SARS sand conversations and shared laughter— further strengthening the bonds of cama- Q: What are the problems faced which you can encounter during auditing (assessment) of tax returns? raderie between the visitors and the hosts. The dinner was also attended by Mr. Mohit Yadav, First Secretary, Indian High Commission. Ms. Lawrence: First of all, there is a paucity of information and relevant documents being submitted by the taxpay- ers along with their tax returns. Secondly, there is undue influence being exercised by the taxpayers and their repre- sentatives over the auditors. However, the auditors need to be professional and should not be intimidated by the taxpayers.

Q: Does SARS also employ the techniques of search and seizure during the course of their investigation?

Ms. Lawrence: SARS has an independent Criminal Investigation and Enforcement Wing but the orders for such a procedure are issued by a judge or an attorney. Thus, SARS officials exercise little discretion in this matter. How- ever, in the near future, we are hopeful that additional powers will be given to Investigation department to carry out investigations independently.

Q: What has been your career experience?

Ms. Lawrence: I was a teacher prior to joining SARS. In the interim, I had left the organization and pursued other career interests before rejoining the organization.

(Ms. Desrae Lawrence spoke to Amanpreet Kaur and Bhagwati Charan) A page from an OT’s diary ... Page 8| Newsletter| Special Issue Rendezvous…(contd.) Page 5| Newsletter| Special Issue Vikram Pagaria Mr. Godfrey Modise, SARS The one week attachment with SARS at the Maxwell Megawatt Park in Johannesburg has been an Q: Could you share your thoughts about working in an agency like SARS? exceptionally great learning experience both at the academic and social level. Insights into almost all aspects of tax administration at the SARS have been provided in the small span of four days and this Mr. Modise: I love working with SARS, it gives me the sense of purpose in life. It gives me the satisfaction of work- surely reflects the amount of effort that the organizers Ms. Seboya Mogoba and Mr. Brandley ing to enhance the taxpayers experience with the department. It also provides me an opportunity to implement in- Ngcobo from SARS International have put up under the coordination of Ms. Varsha Singh, Head of novative solutions to taxpayers’ problems, like the Branch Office Queue Management system, which we put in place SARS International. recently.

The sessions started with the history of SARS by Mr. Aiden Keanly, who has worked with SARS for Q: You mentioned in your session that the expectations of African people were growing rapidly. How do you see almost 40 years. This lecture set the context for the sessions that followed, covering aspects from SARS and other government departments evolve to meet in the next ten years? tax legislation to tax administration. One key feature that was conspicuous was the vision and mis- sion of SARS along with its mandate to modernize and reform itself continuously. Mr. Franz Tomasek Mr. Modise: SARS is currently leading other governmental agencies in technological upgradation. It will achieve who spoke on “Tax Law and Administration” pointed out that there are many different ideas that phenomenal transformation in the coming years at the rate at which it is doing this. SARS is helping the economy can be implemented to modernize SARS but what is vital is to prioritize and focus on a couple of stabilize irrespective of the political scenario. I foresee SARS going on to achieve a collection target of one trillion ideas rather than seeking to implement all the ideas. Mr. Michael Yates’ lecture on “Business Sys- Rands in the next five years. tems and Modernization” revealed that SARS aims to modernize itself within a span of seven years. This phased strategy has merits over sudden impulsive steps to change the procedures and proc- Q: What is the toughest situation which you have faced while interacting with the people as the public face of esses of the tax administration given the fact that tax environment is itself very complicated and feedback of taxpayers and SARS? other stakeholders also needs to be taken into account. These messages hold a lot of importance in the Indian context as well and there is surely a lot to learn from the way SARS has given a professional touch to tax administration. Mr. Modise: The toughest situation I face is while people ask me the question, “Godfrey, why I am I paying the tax”? We know the political reality that a lot of money collected as tax is diverted by the people in power. When the The highpoint for me during the attachment was a visit to the Computer Forensics Lab at the Large Business Center. We were government fails people’s expectations, these questions are raised and there are no answers you can give. shown demonstrations on how to make a read-only image of a seized hard disk, to retrieve and analyze the deleted data from a hard disk, to decrypt the files, to analyze the files whose file types have been modified, to make an image of all the data (call Q: What is your opinion about interactions such as this? Do you think they will be useful in promoting common ob- details, SMS, MMS, emails, photos, movies, contacts) from a smartphone, to retrieve the information on a credit/debit card jectives for the tax authorities of the two countries? etc. The Q&A session was very long and Mr. Arvind Maharaj and the five members working under him at the Computer Foren- sics patiently answered our queries. Mr. Modise: Yes I believe they are of immense importance in promoting common goals. In today’s global scenario, we have to understand that unity is strength. Countries such as South Africa, India and Brazil should stand to- There are definitely so many lessons to be learnt from SARS. The way in which modernization has been taken up in a phased gether to learn from each other’s successes and experiences which can make the development of all of these coun- and structured manner is worth emulating. The efforts of SARS in the field of tax education also are commendable. In this re- tries faster. gard, we need to not that material pertaining to tax education is easily available at all public places around the country. The initiative to provide tax education to school children is also commendable. The attachment with SARS helped us see field real- ity in a new perspective and developed new ideas to bring about modernization of the IRS to address the challenges of the (Mr. Godfrey Modise spoke to Nithya D and Rahul PR) present times.

Mr. Thami Madiwane, SARS

Q: Sir, what is the contribution of Large Business Centres to the total tax revenue?

...and a faculty’s reflections ! Mr. Madiwane : Well, they contribute about 35% of the tax revenue of the state. However, we collect personal income Dr. . Jayasankar, Addl. Director (Faculty) & Course Director, 64 th Batch of IRS taxes from 45% of the registered taxpayers. I believe India has a much lower figure.

The ‘Attachment’ with the South African Revenue Service (SARS) was a Q: Yes sir and increasing that figure is a top priority. Can you elaborate on some of the tools used for economic analy- carefully planned training programme of five days duration that was a sis and revenue forecasting? full complement of everything ranging from intense and interactive classroom learning, experience visits to some of the modernized offices Mr. Madiwane: There two types of tools – E-views for time-series (or linear) analysis, where we analyse trends over and functionalities, ‘sense’ and ‘feel’ of the professional and cultural ele- time. Dematra , developed by the OECD, is used for analysis of seasonally-adjusted data. ments of South Africa’s tax administrative systems, awareness of the Q: With profound changes in economic situation, how advisable is it to utilize data more than a decade old? historical evolution of SARS and its continuing traditions and best prac- Mr. Madiwane : SARS uses 20-year data for forecasting, and 10-year data for cross-sectional analysis. I would say tices and visits to some of the country’s natural and historical monu- that very old data is useful to project the changes in economic patterns, but for annual revenue forecasts should be ments. The similarities along the heterogeneous mix of citizenry (and based on more recent data. the result, the taxpayers) apart, there are several administrative, proce- dural and other analogies between the Indian and South African Reve- Q: How would you define the South African economy? nue Administrations that emerged during the discussions. These analo- Mr. Madiwane: Unlike India, the South African economy is dominated by the mining sector. However, the contribu- gies indicate several common features as well as distinctions along philosophy, strategy and process and divergent tion of mining to the economy is on the decline. The contribution of manufacturing and more importantly, the finan- evolving approaches over time, similarities and differences that are important learning experiences and tools for cial services sector is on the rise. One of the biggest challenges faced by the South African economy is unemployment either side. It is also clear that greater cooperation between the two nations, including on the training and learning amongst youth which stands at 32%. India has done admirably in this field by launching numerous programmes for platforms, is emerging and will be hugely synergistic to maximizing the interests of either nation, as well as the capacity-building amongst youth. rest of the globe. The performance of the OTs has been exemplary. It has been a great five days! (Mr. Thami Madiwane spoke to Sanyam Joshi and Adita Singh) The Programme Directors Speak… Page 6| Newsletter| Special Issue The Programme Directors Speak... Page 7| Newsletter| Special Issue is based on detailed planning with specific focus on subject area and directional orientation. There is Q: What is the driving philosophy behind such exchange pro- a need for the Indian Revenue Administration to re-engineer its approach and work out the minutiae of structural grammes? details prior to implementation of any new programme. We also need to encourage specialization given the technicali- Mr. N. Jayasankar (NJS): International attachments have ties in the field. The issue of shortage of staff and skills also needs to be urgently resolved. been part of the training module at NADT for the last four BNG: The ideology and mode of recruitment for the Public Services, including the training programme, in India is years. The philosophy has emerged from the prevailing currents worth emulating. Our government also faces skill shortages and this is an area where we could learn from the pro- of globalization and privatization being based within the realm grammes launched by the Indian government. of global governance. The aspects pertaining to fiscal policy, environmental issues and economic urbanization require har- Q: What is your opinion of the 64 th Batch of Indian Revenue Service? mony at the level of governmental activities. The training mod- NJS: I’m glad to lead a group of prompt, punctual and disciplined officers on the international attachment. Their ule has been designed to incorporate exposure at the local, na- eagerness to learn was reflected in the relevant questions raised by them during the academic sessions. There has tional and international levels. been a definite value-addition to the knowledge base of the officer trainees during the attachment which will benefit International attachments are based on the model of academic inputs and test orientation.This was implemented the department in the long-run. through the process of scriptural, analytical and expirential learning. BNG: I am also impressed by the promptness and dedication exhibited by the officer trainees. Such interactions help Mr. Brandley Ngcobo (BNG): SARS also follows a similar philosophy. Such programmes help deepen international foster long-term relations at the political and executive level. The network established during the visit of the 63 rd relationships and enhance engagements with developing nations, particularly with the meembers of IBSA. It helps Batch of IRS has continued till date resulting in an exchange of information and greater co-operation between the in capacity-building for SARS and exchange of information at the governmental level, thus addressing the issue of SARS and the IRS. skill shortage. (Dr. N. Jayasankar and Mr. Brandley Ngcobo spoke to Adita Singh and Sanyam Joshi) Q: Sir, there’s a debate on the relevance of international attachments for officer trainees. What are your views on this?

NJS: Training is in a state of flux in India given the dynamic global realities. The Indian Revenue Service (IRS) has recently started posting even young officers in international taxa- Social Interactions tion. This has created a need for a longer, wider and deeper train- ing programme with an adequate international component. Inter- The social activities of the South Africa group national exposure at an early stage of the career proves to be a began with a visit to the Nelson Mandela fruitful investment in terms of capacity building and productive Square which is a part of the Sandton City output for the nation. Mall. An imposing bronze statue of Mr. Nel- BNG: The individual response determines the perspective to- son Mandela adorned the central square. It wards the training module. The current challenges faced by civil was the first interface with the general life of servants generate a need for greater international cooperation, the city. The square is dotted with roadside which is possible only through such interactions. cafés and multi-cuisine restaurants that add Q: What challenges did you face while scheduling this attach- to the flavour of the city. The group dis- ment? persed and then explored the place, which was dotted with elite designer brands along- NJS: The most important challenge was convincing the Govern- with local South African ones. There was also ment of India about the need to increase the duration of the international attachment and getting adequate budget- a public library within the premises of the ary allocation for the same. The NADT faced procedural and technical hurdles given the hierarchical structure of mall, a novel concept for us. The mall also Indian bureaucracy. The holiday seasons, both in India and abroad, added to the complexity of the situation. Flying the whole batch of 131 officer trainees to the USA and then splitting them up and sending to each station was a lo- contained within it many office premises and gistical nightmare, but the officer trainees showed admirable efficiency in fulfilling many technical demands in time two hotels, providing a glimpse of the vision and assisting the Course authorities. in developing such public places.

The relationships built during the attachment of the 63 rd Batch of IRS also enabled us to provide the broad frame- work for the attachment with SARS. We also appreciate how the SARS team, led by Mr. Ngcobo, worked out the mo- dalities within a short span of time.

BNG: The challenge faced by SARS was mainly related to logistics. We also had to figure out whether to fill the pro- gramme with social events or to keep it flexible. Given the experience with the 63 rd Batch and the cultural context of the exchange programme, we preferred to go with flexibility inspite of the logistical problems it might create.

Q: What best practices would you like to incorporate in your tax administrations respectively?

NJS: The vision presented by various speakers over the duration of this programme has been inspiring. The Busi- ness Partner Model of SARS provides an alternative form of operations for the government departments. This model