Liberté, Fraternité, Corbusier! an Interview with Alex Timbers David Savran

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Liberté, Fraternité, Corbusier! An Interview with Alex Timbers David Savran

Figure 1. Le Corbusier (Daniel Larlham) investigates the amount of space a man needs to live. Boozy: The Life, Death, and Subsequent Vilification of Le Corbusier, and, More Importantly, Robert Moses. Ohio Theatre, New York City, 2005. (Photo by Joan Marcus)

Since World War II, New York theatre has been periodically reinvigorated by a succession of avantgardes whose legendary companies, from the Living Theatre and the Performance Group to Mabou Mines and the Wooster Group, are well known to readers of TDR. By the early 1990s, these artists (and their kin) acquired enough cultural capital to become a consecrated avantgarde, drawing dedicated and increasingly bourgeois audiences in New York and elsewhere, headlining international festivals, and becoming canonized by academics and the subject of reverential articles and reviews in the New York Times (see Savran 2005). Given the dominance of a cultural system that places a premium on youth and innovation, how- ever, the consecration of middle-age rebels inevitably sparks the appearance of a young neo- avantgarde, one that returns to the seditious and denunciatory strategies of the historical avantgarde (of the early 20th century) while both critiquing and venerating the work of its immediate predecessors.

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40 David Savran Alex Timbers) Theater, PageantNewHouseman John by . (Photo City,York 2003. way.the Hubbard Ron L. shows Klein) Stacy (Alison angel An 2. Figure A VeryUnauthorizedMerry Children’s Scientology house” (Les Freres Corbusier,house”Freres (Les Dada,to Futurism,closer Surrealism far and seem would it right. and left across cuts that philosophy political populism,emblematically of the vices American the (mainly) and virtues the consider to ident the Jacksonuses that pageant history (2009),musical a and illegal; is dancing which in future Orwellian an in set musical disco homosexuality,drugs,humanism; metal, secular heavy and abortion,of evils the dramatizes that kit do-it-yourself house haunted Christian evangelical captors; metallic her from scenes enact to forced and Ecuador of rainforests the to robots by abducted is housewife Michigan pregnant a which in play Ibsen’s of version tasmatic Roosevelt,clothes,as human Mussolini,masquerading Goebbels; and miniature in rabbits real as Libeskind,well Daniel as and Corbusier Le by appearances tures fea- and Jacobs Jane rebellious the against Moses pits that planning city about (2005),musical a Life,The Death,Subsequent and Corbusier,Vilification Le of and, Importantly, More Moses Robert the followed that materials,works and the methods these humor,sophomoric n.d.).Corbusier research”Exploiting Freres academic (Les rigorous and revisionism,excess,historical texts,multimedia combining found theater visceral “aggressively many,what of variety loopy especially an of veyor including Timbers,theatre,post-ironic an call tion.St.Filling Ann’s Warehouse,piece the tradi- avantgardist the to accommodated easily piece,be enigmatic can most House, group’s the New the Yorkof much of serious,typical work austere,militant and avantgarde. Only of Newof York. the holds Vera City the of University American the Center TheatreGraduate in at Chair Roberts Mowry the of editor the is Awards. HeLortel Lucille Awards the Obie and the for judge a as served He has Prize. Book Callaway Joe2010 Newthe A. (Universitythe of MiddleClass MichiganPress,Makingof winner of the 2009), recently,most books, eight of author Hethe is theory. socialAmerican culture,theatre,and popular 21st-century and 20th- in specialist a is SavranDavid Given the anarchic, infantile, wildly theatrical, and hyperliterate nature of Les Freres’s work,Freres’s anarchic,Les the of infantile,Given nature theatrical, hyperliterate wildly and , is Distinguished ProfessorTheatre,Distinguished andTheatre of is Dramaand Journal American, of (2006), a more or less literal staging of Pastor Keenan Roberts’s Keenan Pastor of staging literal less or (2006),more House a Hell Hell House) Hell — — allows groups of visitors, with a demon for a guide,a for demon visitors,a of with groups allows “part installation,performance,“part haunted part part Highbrow/Lowdown:Theater, the and Jazz, has carved out a niche for itself as a pur a as itself for niche a out carved has of direction Alex artistic Timbers,Freres Les Maxwell.Foreman,the Richard Under and the of Woostercompany Group, Richard august ior,the in it put does approval his sav- theatrical new the it anoint to power the have itself in not troupe”does (2006:B7) this of “nerdy-slash-cool championing tinued ation”(2003:E6). con- Brantley’s while And gener young a for blueprint and cult-hit “a season the theatre gimmick”the “gutsiest of the of the section of Arts page front the on Brantley Ben from review glowing (2003),a earned PageantScientology Children’s Unauthorized piece,arrival.second upon Its consecrated being of position peculiar the York,Les New 21st–century early of ferment the in Among the companies that emerged that companies the Among genocide-packed life of the seventh pres- seventh the of life genocide-packed New Yorkit labeled he which Timesin Scientology PageantScientology include (2008),Revolution Dance a Dance — Freres Corbusier finds itself in itself finds Corbusier Freres over and over with over and over Gabler Hedda or Monty Python Monty or (2006),fan- Heddatron a Bloody BloodyBloody Andrew — A Very Merry than to the to than Boozy: Hell - - Les Freres Corbusier 41 Corbusier Bloody Bloody Andrew Andrew Bloody Bloody was consolidated as a reaction against a com- — pleasure in the form of dense, arduous, arcane, and unpleasure often in arcane, con- the form arduous, of dense, , it does so in an inordinately user-friendly way, that it épater does la , so bourgeoisie in an way, inordinately user-friendly Hell House deliberately refuses to signal whether it is serious or satirical, of yesteryear and today —

Heddatron (written by Elizabeth is Meriwether the and Timbers) Les directed by provides a new Andrew model Jackson for the theatrical genre most stigmatized as - mid

Heddatron provides The for its audience places Les Freres in a sticky position culturally. If If Les Freres aims to Although the other Freres pieces are more they unambiguously also comic, have been prob- himself) with middlebrow culture bubble-gum (especially like pop, middlebrow disco, music, Eclipse of For the example, Heart”). “Total the and Spice Girls, Cher, represents a Timbers) kind (written of with and Alex Brechtian directed musical, by Jackson catchy songs (written by who Michael is Friedman, also a member of the Civilians) in the melodically expressive post-punk with a guitar-driven, “emotional hardcore,” style or of Emo, The performance feels and at confessional times impassioned, vocals. like a prominent, cross between a rock concert and a play and looks like what might happen if a bunch of very talented, 20-something slackers got together and decided to do a American musical populism about and the politics Andrew the of Jackson frontiers- the using as Jackson, early its republic, fulcrum. and is charming despite much angst-ridden, to his man, too hate, genocidal interesting, prac- while in his fake come “doily-wearing tices, antagonists, period across muffincostumes, as tops” Much of 2009:37). it is with (Timbers directly the presentational, actors careening between their As songs performer in interrupt selves Brecht, the and action historical while personages. elaborating on the personal feelings of The characters contemporary and the political context. feel of along the with piece, political slogans that sound as if they were spewed out yesterday (“It’s time for makes us it to 2009:41]), clear take that this [Timbers this country piece back!” Bush, about Jackson is also a critique of the modern W. populism of George Ronald Reagan, and Barack Obama. dlebrow, frontational experiences. frontational experiences. by reimagining is, and reworking the epitome of theatre-as-commodity in the US: the musical. Given the explosion of Off-Off Broadway musicals since Les the Freres 1990s, is by no means the only small company to And be there tinkering is with a the long genre. history of the avant- But or Les obscene. Freres is unique in its tawdry, garde poaching forms regarded as lowbrow, radical mixing of elements from high and culture Le (like Ibsen, Michel Foucault, mercial theatre whose not-so-innocent pleasures have been relished by a bourgeoisie that uses it as relief from the storm and stress And of many business avantgardists and through family life. the years have rebelled against theatre as a commodity by generating performances that resist delivering commodification, leaving spectators to deal directly with the Noinflammatory matter material. what their beliefs, they are likely to feel ill if at for ease, no other reason than they know there are millions of people in the US who really believe that latte-sipping ironists are doomed to an eternity in hell. have a recognizes, harder time Timbers dealing with comedy than a lematic who, for critics, large swath of the especially theatre-going comedy public, that is deliberately silly and juvenile, and (Snook over-the- “well-rehearsed 2006), amateurism” and that depends more on horseplay, the prospect Indeed, of analyzing top Les theatricality Freres’s than wit and verbal ingenuity. work is daunting because I don’t want my analysis to eviscerate and overintellectualize theatre that so revels in the joys and unpredictability the of For challenge live me, performance. of writing about the thrill of Les Freres’s liveness is linked to the difficulty of analyzing plea- which the sure, company delivers in vast quantities but which inevitably evaporates in the act of At the I same feel time, obliged to description. point out that the off-the-chart pleasure a piece like after all avantgarde, to wander through an eight-room labyrinth displaying the horrifying results of un-Christian behavior: a high school cheerleader getting a a grisly date-rape abortion, at a a social rave, out- cast gunning a down gay his marriage classmates, and that a AIDS ends coffee ward, in klatch an of secular humanists set upon Like by the devils. confrontational work of Theatre the Living Group, Wooster or the Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29September 2021 Los Angeles, 2004. (Photo by Alexby (Photo Angeles, 2004. Los Timbers) UnauthorizedChildren’s Theatre, PageantScientology The Powerhouse . Figure3. Tom court. in (Anthonytestifies CruiseQuinonez) 42 David Savran theatre’s supersession and obsolescence by a host of mass-produced and distributed media.distributed and mass-produced of host a by obsolescence and supersession theatre’s protest and dramatize to performance robotic and recorded foregrounds and straits) dire more With form.popular a as theatre supplant soon would that medium emerging,new was a cinema as that reminder a as perhaps serves media prerecorded and live brother.Rambo-esque his and Rick with interview between an contrast projects persistent The and tapes kitchen the in student film a while wall room living the on appears Engineer loping broom as Berta the maid, and a skulking cluster of vine leaves.vine of cluster skulking maid,a the and Berta as broom collective),silhouetted them,arts Botmatrix,Julie,delicately among robot slithering Aunt a a a by (designed robots six of ensemble word-for-wordan play with Ibsen’s enact to forced is she which magic,in by steps,and if Jane as which into enchanted,rainforest an emerald-green of her.fucks play,shadows the into reveal minutes to 40 aside About swing suddenly walls the archrival, feral Strindberg, his before minutes some Slut Kitchen a with flirts idly playwright reserved the which Mrs.in and Ibsen Ibsen of room dining the and abduction; her after time tials that does not employ them. Several times during them.times employ Several not does that tials creden- avantgardist serious with director or company a find to hard-pressed be would one that Street 14th cuously.of south regularly so used are forms televisual Indeed,and mass-mediated promis- media mixes troupes,Freres theatre Les avantgardist other Association,countless and century.21st the in theatre live of the position like Woosterthe For on tion Group, Builders piece.the on metacommentary running a provides and class history theatre her for play well-made the and Ibsen on report oral an preparing Mc),is Chicken who way,the story.which her for to classics related modernist tially the of many so Like tangen- are and ordeal Jane/Hedda’s postdate and antedate that narratives interruptive of series a by structure play well-made Ibsen’s of detonation the is updating robots.the of part crucial A George than Tesman,stultifying less no as impersonal and unfeeling as society a by encircled husband,Ibsen’s,a as Rick,with despairing and imprisoned as housewife contemporary a ines By using robots,using By But , Les Freres resurrects Ibsen’s heroine 120 years later (when theatre is in much in is theatre (when later years 120 heroine Ibsen’s resurrects Heddatron,Freres Les represents more than an updating of Ibsen’s masterpiece. It is also a medita- a also masterpiece.is Ibsen’s It of updating an than more represents Heddatron reflects upon itself via Jane and Rick’s 10-year-old Rick’s daughter, and Jane via itself upon in reflects (as Heddatron Nugget presents a clever updating of Ibsen’s tragedy that plausibly imag- plausibly that tragedy Ibsen’s of updating clever a presents Heddatron A Very A Merry

, the video image of an inter an of image Heddatron,video the was first performed first was Gabler Hedda ; her kitchen some kitchen her Gabler; Hedda for fondness a with Jane named woman suicidal a of room ing liv- present-day the moment: ral tempo- different a in located spaces,domestic each three 2006).into divided is stage The (Smith subjects human of zation mechani- the and imprisonment dence transcen- for desire tion,the and Ibsen to modernism,especially cal and theatri- to central themes on highbrow”riffs “brainy comedy housewife,Gabler.Hedda This frustrated suicidally and brated cele- most his by emblematized and Ibsen by inaugurated atre the- antecedents,art brow the high- company’s the on reflects explicitly most that show Freres — — entrapment,objectifica- by literalizing Hedda’s literalizing by helped pave helped Hedda - Les Freres Corbusier 43 is — Hedda Bloody Bloody Andrew Andrew Bloody Bloody Timbers Alex and of — conceived by Alex Timbers. The Tank, The Tank, conceived by Alex Timbers. [2009] for the New York Musical Camp [2009] for York the New Fat Heddatron celebrates more It than dares liveness. even to Bat Boy [2008] for John Hopkins University) in addition to his work with Jolla Playhouse (workshop). La Jolla, CA. , like all Heddatron, Les represents Freres a pieces, celebration of live performance, University, New Haven, CT. University, City. City. New York The Tank, by Alex Timbers. City. New York Conceived Robert by Moses Juliet by Chia, Importantly, Alex David Timbers. City. Ohio Theatre, Morris, New and York Alex Timbers. Brooklyn, NY. City. New York Friedman. Public Theater, La Incompetent Scumbags. by Written John J. Avlon. Un Piece de Mouvement de Mouvement Le Historique . Mathematique Avec Yale Reconciliation City. of the Dialectical . Articulations chashama, New York City. The Franklin Thesis by New Bradley York Bazzle. HERE Arts Center, The Shaker Sisters. The Flamboyan Theater and Collective: Unconscious, New York Merry Unauthorized Children’s Scientology A Pageant Very conceived by Kyle Jarrow, Manifest Destiny: A Historical Rock Spectacular Boozy: The Life, Death, and,and More Subsequent ofVilification Le Corbusier, City. New York HERE Arts Heddatron Center, by Elizabeth Meriwether. Hell House, with official text by Pastor Keenan Roberts.Warehouse, St. Ann’s City. New York Dance Ohio Dance Theater, Revolution by Alex Timbers. Bloody Bloody Music Andrew and Jackson lyrics by by Alex Michael Timbers. Hoover Comes Alive! by Sean Cunningham. Music and lyrics by Michael Friedman.

Ultimately, Ultimately, The most scandalous aspect of the work of Les Freres Corbusier of evanescence, and of of evanescence, error; of the chasm between here now Even and and the there, then. their robots unmistakably gaze they With backwards retro come look, as as well the as forwards. sign not of some posthuman future but of the fantasies and fears of playwrights and filmmakers Although impressively a constructed the generation and clunky after animated, and Ibsen. cum- bersome machines are spellbinding because of their fallibility (some of the biggest laughs are sparked by robots accidentally They on are purpose a colliding reminder into that furniture). live theatre is messy and unpredictable and the well-made play a formal device as unstable and flimsy as an animated piece But of tin. commemorate theatre as In a the cultural work tradition. of what other company would a fourth grader be studying theatre makes history? in theatre Les short, for In Freres, theatre the geeks. age of only digital theatre performance, geeks could possibly care about the genesis of Gabler or the rivalry between Ibsen and Strindberg. has been Timbers engaged since his col- not its irreverence but its accessibility and popularity. in imagining and constructing a theatre in which lege Yale avantgardism days and at commerce are no Unlike longer so enemies. many of his peers who work only with their own companies, for Roundabout [2008]) is a Timbers director Trees staging for new hire, plays (The of Language The Musical! and [2006] musicals and (Gutenberg! Theatre Festival and as he populism well is knows, Yet philosophy as It Timbers’s an also artist. . represents Jackson Les Freres. But given the antipathy toward the Great White Way on the part But of Les given so Freres. the many Way antipathy avant- toward White the Great will be Timbers hard-pressed to retain the allegiance gardists, of those who Antichrist think the has appeared in the with shape Theatrical which of Productions, he Disney is developing two In populism other is projects. words, more than just the subject matter of All productions directed by Alex Timbers. All Date productions and directed location by of Alex premieres. Timbers. 2001 2002 2002 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2006 2008 2009 2009 In process Les Freres Corbusier Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29September 2021

44 David Savran Smith,Robert. 2006. in Meets Radio,Robot’ “Ibsen February.Public ‘Heddatron.’”‘I 6 National www.npr Savran,David. 2005. the of Avantgarde.”Death “The Corbusier.Freres Les n.d. House.” “Hell Corbusier.Freres Les n.d. Statement.”“Mission Kamer,Foster. 2009. Director & Alex Playwright “Spotlight: Timbers,Corbusier.”[sic] Frères Les Brantley,Ben. 2006. Robot “In WorldShe TurnsHedda Hedda.”More Than Brantley,Ben. 2003. Positive Into Thinking.”Excursion “Crayon-Colored References New of York.University City his If 2009)? vation”way,TimbersKamer his (in has Waltin somersaults doing be will Disney notes,Broadway enemy.”consider “the if,sal- asks,what its he But be just might “Broadway practice.to than system ofbelief theatre,”Aficionados a “downtown as enunciate to easier he New YorkCity, 2005. Subsequent Corbusier,and Le of Vilification and, More Importantly, Robert Moses. architecture.”“hidden the in FigureFreemasonsCorbusier Dancing Le 4. instruct The interview that follows was conducted on 28 September 2009 at the Graduate Center,Graduate the at 2009 September 28 on conducted was follows that interview The .org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=51912272009). September (25 2010). (29 December). (25 freres-corbusier/8992 BlackBook,July.20 www.blackbookmag.com/article/spotlight-playwright-director-alex-timbers-les- B7,B13. E1,E6. grave. December 2009). December (Photo by Joanby(Photo Marcus) Lesfreres.org. Lesfreres.org. www.lesfreres.org/archives/06_hell.htmlFebruary (27 TDR 49,(T187):10–42. 3 www.lesfreres.org/main_site.htm New York Times, 22 New York Times, 18 Boozy: The Life, Death, Life, The Boozy: Ohio Theatre, Theatre, Ohio December: February:

Les Freres Corbusier 45 Brace Brace beaters and it — Time Out Time to send up as well as cele- — [Limelight Editions, 1974], 1974], [Limelight Editions, Une Pièce de Mouvement Historique Making Scenes on video out with of a context, bunch of Brace Up! Brace without actually having seen it — [1993]. And And [1993]. in seventh. And I saw Le theatre Bourgeois gentilhomme in when seventh. I was grow - . Music and Theater . lyrics by Public Michael Friedman. Andrew Jackson Bloody Bloody Brace Up! Brace was probably the thing that got me most excited But about since theatre. I had vran: How did you get interested in theatre?

Tommy Tommy September 2009).

[in 2003], I [in thought 2003], it was hilarious and I was crying at Someone the had end. pulled some- vid Sa So when I came to New York, the first thing I did was intern at Theatre the Club So Manhattan when I came York, to New My final year in college [2001] I created a piece called , 5–11 October. http://newyork.timeout.com/articles/own-this-city/4160/hell-on-wheels 5–11 October. , York New (25 1 Lab June. typescript, RAN: The same VRAN: small group of directors working with the same small group of VRAN: In the Christmas pageant? a playwrights. brate early BAM Next Wave stuff. So it stuff. was four guys in brate sherbet-colored early pants Wave BAM and Next wife- with no gestural socks choreography or like, to And shoes Steve doing, Reich and Philip Glass. telling the we story were of the math descendants in of six and Corbusier, discrete sections, there was a Corbusier Machine Monster who wanted us to for stop telling dancing, the history of math Itvilified started him. with the formation of the earth and ended with postmodernism. Math and man came together in the which fourth was in section, the Thomas life Jefferson, of which Le Corbusier turns Sally Hemmings into a Sally Hemmings Machine Monster It was had preposterous. the things that have been in all the Les Freres shows: it was mocking academia while mocking celebrating avantgarde And it, theatre tropes while celebrating them. we created a course packet that was six pages of outline of what was going on in with the piece, If you footnotes. didn’t you read would this, have had Plus no there clue. were primary sources and blank pages in the back There so was you a could reading take period notes. before the show that was actually longer than the piece itself. MTC was interesting to me because it quickly Meadow. disabused with me Lynne of the idea that the regional theatre movement was I still realized vital. that regional theatres were just producing whatever MTC or Second Stage had done two years before. SA avec avec la Géométrie and I was trying Up! thing over on me. 20-year-old snotty kids, is, like, a disaster. So my experience with experimental theatre a was disaster. to like, is, snotty kids, 20-year-old And when think I it came was very to very serious. the navel-gazing, city and actually saw which got me really excited about But regional in theatre. terms of the experimental theatre, only thing I knew about it was when from Marc class, Robinson would show things like [the Group’s] Wooster ing up. ing up. a TV public show Andaccess when II my pursuedwas plan that 11, was V/filmT to things. do in When high I school applied I while to had doing college, a theatre. choice between a film- training program or because a it liberal just arts seemed school and I ended up Yale going to Yale they had all these requirements before you When could I use difficult went to to pass up. The only practical way to apply all I “Screw was this.” interested so the I equipment, thought, in was to And do I improv started comedy becoming and interested theatre. in the management School of Drama and I I would ran side. sneak the into college graduate Yale the- classes at And read Bob Brustein’s the Dramat. atre company, TIMBERS: I was in the Christmas pageant; I played Charles Dickens in sixth grade; I played Madame Jourdain in : I went to an all-boys school in New York and did theatre every year, begin- and did theatre Timbers: every I year, Alex went to an all-boys school York in New ning in I Angelfirst was Gabriel. grade. the SA D Timbers, Alex. 2009. 2009. Alex. Timbers, Snook, Raven. 2006. “Hell on Wheels: The Red-State House of Horrors Rolls Into Dumbo.” The Red-State Wheels: House “Hell of on Horrors Rolls Into Dumbo.” 2006. Raven. Snook, Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29September 2021

46 David Savran into the show, which is a fair response. But then that in theory set us up to get him to cover our cover to him get to up us show,set the theory into in that response.then fair But a is which lucked have might we before,thought us he of heard never good.he’d was Because done had we what that idea any had I and writer the whether questioned but show the liked really he and like chilling.looks of WillemHe taller,Dafoe.a Like scarier came Brantley WillemBen Dafoe.) kind was it and street the on walking operations Coast East of head the passed I yesterday just stupid.really us,(Actually,was after it. which coming miss started would Scientologists the And people otherwise because agent,it Summa,press exploit Don good to a getting worth be would it that idea enough good a was it holidays.knew the I for ready it get to production into quickly went we and Jarrow] [Kyle emotional.writer of the kind convinced potentially I and And esting inter was idea kids,that little thinking with Scientology about show a create to while a for ing [A show Verysecond our PageantScientology Children’s Unauthorized Merry ,want- 2003].been I’d eye.my did training things,we really crazy then and of And sorts all from and cuses Australia companies,international cir of videotapes watching as well as theatre US of lot a see to town of level. next the to work the take us helping of terms in us to kind really been has press the years,momentum.the little Over a us gave worthwhile,she being so as on early up Freres Les event.entire the the [in control Soloski and Alexis company own my create to was wanted I stuff the direct to going was I way only the knew sounds,I that but as cynical as quite work.wasn’t other It doing into that leverage potentially can you known,then well and gets director the cycle press second known, the well in gets company the cycle press first the mission.specific In really a had companies theatre own their created had who people successful company.own their found or project breakout a from most momentum the of And sort some of,have age they like,the something...unless before do 45,Chekhov they or unless O’Neill New in opportunity an gets one no that was out direct figured to quickly York had I What work.own your doing and involved friends your getting start to also but manner thrifty a in so do to how learn and work people’s other produce to way a was bit.nights dark the doing And little a companies,directing different and for nights dark on producing started I So TIMBERS: FigureJane5. reading (CarolynBaeumler) HERE Arts Center,Arts HERE New YorkCity, 2006. After MTC, I got this amazing job in programming at the New the at programming in job amazing this MTC,got After I (Photo by Joanby(Photo Marcus) with robots in an enchanted jungle. enchanted an in robots Heddawith Gabler V ictory and I was going out going was I and ictory Village Voicepicked ] Heddatron. - - Les Freres Corbusier 47 at Lincoln , which Rent, or Andrew Jackson Andrew Jackson South Pacific South Pacific “Populism.” We always We “Populism.” , helps shape Rent, the dia- — and while I love show tunes, — Spring Awakening Awakening Spring is I think there’s very little dialogue — he’s always given us For positive reviews. — or the choreography in Figure Figure 6. Jane confronts Rick (Gibson Frazier) and Cubby (Sam Forman). Timbers) 2006. (Photo by Alex City, York New . HERE Heddatron Arts Center, because I love it so much — Spring Awakening Awakening Spring culturally irrelevant. culturally irrelevant. is

’s been interesting because he is, like, eternally zeitgeist-y, and every poli- ’s been eternally interesting zeitgeist-y, because like, he Andrew Jackson is,

. And heaven forbid there be Superbad. any Every interesting comedy visuals. is a single-set, VRAN: It RAN: Thinking about VRAN: com- Center and be fascinated and wowed what by interests it, me in directing are things that are much more visceral and Why relate do to no contemporary musicals popular feel culture. as cool as Why music does videos? all the music and video technology within them still feel at least which 10 The seems years biggest still old? to vacuum right be now stuck is in in comedy, when you talk about broad comedy in you the think theatre, of Neil Simon, Today, the 1940s. not farce or door-slamming it This takes is place theatre in that a appeals kitchen. to dull and aged with popular culture. People like Will Ferrell movies Will and with People Ben popular like culture. Stiller movies and listen to Fall Out Boy and things People like do that. not listen to show tunes TIMBERS: For me that’s really tough. Too often there’s a no reason why a thing is a show, TIMBERS: Too For me that’s really tough. While I piece enjoy of some and live classic I’ll theatre. musicals, go see now that I’ve been doing I’m more TV reminded filmstuff, (and and I don’t mean to sound obnoxious) how close to culturally irrelevant theatre can be. SA experimental artists, it’s experimental incredibly artists, helpful to have some consistency in terms of who is adju- That was especially crucial with dicating your show in the critical community. Doing it [2009]. at it the was Public, really important to me that my company be involved, because framing it as a new rock musical puts it in the line of other shows. And honestly, he’s been very kind to us And honestly, other shows. doesn’t benefit anyone. But saying it’s a Les Freres show, suddenly One you com- doesn’t understand. Butbenefit saying anyone. it’s a Les Freres show, mercial producer came “The and opening had song a very is very critical called literal, response, but the rest of the show’s What not are about they populism doing?” at all. Yea,’ Yea ‘Populism And then the first sentence of Ben Brantley’s review is a single word panies like the Wooster Group, Group, panies Wooster like the Elevator Repair Radiohole, and I Richard Service, Maxwell, see a tradition American in the avantgarde of mixing high art Wooster The and popular art. juxtaposing for example, Group, and Pigmeat Wilder Thornton But unlike Markham. most of you those turn groups, to - mid where dlebrow things culture, are except not maybe cool, in I mean, campy way. a kitschy, you’re making musical theatre, for the God’s most sake, un-cool theatre there is. TIMBERS: I have a very complicated relationship with musi- My cal biggest theatre. problem with theatre more generally knew the show was ultimately a dissection of populism and now the most important theatre Talking about its political or intellectual critic in the world has rung that truth up a flagpole. not how merit, it relates to logue. whether Democratic comes tician, or from He Republican, his represents rib. a lot of things we love in our leaders. SA Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29September 2021

48 David Savran Richard Termine) ownlife. her taking contemplates then rave a at raped(Katie Vagnino) girl gets A 7. Figure . St. Ann’sHellSt.House . by Warehouse,NY,(Photo 2006. Brooklyn, company to be.to company the want people other what to down tied be to want don’t things.I different So do to want they over.and over them with work change,to older,People obligation get change,aesthetics their over.and over use institutional I no people there’s of But group a with relationship trol,a and company,dance a like con- more artistic create have to producers.would able two I be with to choreography.the doing was ERS me.wanted to I interesting really seemed juxtaposition That theatre.for so And uptown of professionalism and smarts the with theatre downtown the of best the combine could you sensibility,if downtown great a really with be theatre would it was.thought it I whichever ethos of terms in was theatre adobe company,a constructing of terms in inspirational was Service while Repair Elevator TIMBERS: fingerprint.definite very a collaborators,retaining different while many with work you SA seeing. is audience the what of experience the control tightly to shows.like my I of one in happened ally for it while realizing it’s kind of silly. And I think other people like these things too but are per silly.are of but kind too it’s things realizing these while like it people for other think I And that. by fascinated am and movies those of hundred a over watched song.into I spring to something allows vocabulary emotional or narrative or visual the ever on musicals,bump”was movie “the thesis when- in college my because funny It’s TIMBERS: insane of disco,sort of a age the in musical the in TuttiLady “The Hat.”Frutti eyes,my In musicals,1930s,movie the and ’40s, theatre ’50s. musical and SA internet? the on anything with competes actually it that feel might person young a that so stage,the visceral,to a sensibility comic,bring aware you temperaments.pop-culturally do How RAN: Of course, one thing that distinguishes Les Freres from a lot of other groups is that is groups other of lot a from Freres Les distinguishes that course,thing Of one VRAN: RAN: I think of your work not in relation to relation in not work your of think I VRAN: I have an attraction to things that are somewhat,are well,that things nerdy.to attraction an have I affection sincere a have I And Boozy [2005], Doug Cohen was doing the music but Katherine Profeta from Profeta Katherine but music the doing was [2005],Cohen Doug — downtown theatre with an uptown sensibility,uptown an with theatre downtown uptown or Saturday Night FeverSaturdayNight . was a rewriting of a ’30s a of rewriting a was Revolution Dance Dance Spring AwakeningGolden of the Age to but AnythingGoes, Carioca,”“The But I would flip out if that actu- that if out flip would I But onstage.high or drunk get they chaos.when of Especially sort a tightly,so is love they what yet constructed and nuanced ically technolog- so it’s because me to fascinating through.is Radiohole thought and controlled tightly very,are references these very theatre.avantgarde to make All we references the even about shows.feel the I in how it’s And didactic,material the educational theatre,about musical or about feel I them? how love That’s we much how to ourselves mit silly,com- wholly then we can are things these admit we once preposterous.pretty is yet,And saying,while okay,hat the this tip you is,can theatre how ironic post- a building about thing it.admit to unwilling haps The - Les Freres Corbusier 49 Hell was the apex . St. Ann’s Warehouse, Brooklyn, Brooklyn, Warehouse, . Ann’s St. House Hell I mean, LA I wouldn’t mean, exist if Andrew Jackson Andrew Jackson — and I feel some people hated that — [2006/2007] in LA, [2006/2007] there in were LA, people it’s completely sophomoric, glib, and way it’s glib, completely sophomoric, and I don’t think is true of Seattle or — — the other it was like, easy. And the evangelicals were furious with it easy. was like, has a lot more rigor and intellectual and emotional Dance Dance is that people don’t know how to talk about Scientology Pageant Scientology Pageant —

Dance Dance Revolution is much It’s less about calculated. Figure 8. An abortion gone awry. 8. abortionAn Figure gone awry. 2006. Marcus) (Photo by Joan NY, had “Isn’t less it of diffi- a It Jackson moral was position. more, Dance Andrew Jackson Andrew Jackson Dance Dance Revolution is there’s not a — , on Hell the House,

[2006].

VRAN: RAN: Which, I believe, you I studiously believe, avoid Which, in the most VRAN: other obviously pieces, VRAN: How do you think about the range of work you’ve done? doing a comedic Hell House. And doing it a was comedic fineHell butHouse. definitely missed It the was point. people run- “I got shit on ning my around, hands” Andrew Jackson hadn’t done this horrible And thing people to came the out Native population. with which that in reaction, itself was cool But and as complicated. we changed the character, had to take more of this a no We stand longer on seemed our a feelings worthwhile about path. On Andrew the Jackson. other hand, taking the company’s style and just sending it to the limit single theatre company devoted to unless producing comedies, very traditional or they’re very, So while sketch comedy. House TIMBERS: Angeles, In Los that It must was have interesting been a really hard decision.” Wow, cult Andrew to Jackson? be to me to actually get someone to Andrew identify Jackson with Some people hate every show our company does because show. high style and raucous comedy are But always the divisive. thing with even if a critic had an the enjoyable more experience, you comedy, think about With it comedy. and actually have to set things down you in start so words, feeling you stupid, start “I to worry: I guess guess that this other could thing have I been laughed funnier. at was pretty sophomoric.” What’s tough York Analyzing about it New kills it. Austin or LA Dance Revolution probably didn’t deserve a production as lavish as it it was received, fun to produce a comedy and give it visuals on that scale because it’s ultimately a unique experience for an audi- see something like that. To ence. And then it went away...and that’s the glory of theatre. SA other hand, sparked other a hand, lot of dis- cussions friends, with colleagues, In experi- other students. words, enced theatergoers did not know what to make I of liked it. the lack of a clear signal of meaning and the fact that it was But so as I deadpan. I think said, a lot or of at people, least a lot of my They wanted were satire. sort friends, of frustrated. When we TIMBERS: were doing the merit. And I think that show’s merit. a first for the company because it delivers much more of an emo- a real acted And like, ’70s by Jackson anti-hero, such is, a Ben charming tional person, payload. and so we identify with him in a way and want to like Walker, this awful man. SA over-designed. Whereas Whereas over-designed. SA There have TIMBERS: been two strains to the company’s work. of one strand and Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29September 2021 JoanMarcus) 50 David Savran flight. in cast 53-member FigureThe 9. hipsters who thought it was really ironic, and 50-year-old Latino men who were,ironic,who 50-year-oldreally like,men and was Latino it weeping, thought who hipsters hilarious,Ugg-wearing was and it thought who girls cere.bachelorette drunk these were There irony,sincerity,see wanting to in wanting went in fest.you went irony If an sin- was was it it editorializing.were Ultimately,we think would people concerned were we you that if rageous straight.this out- play so to were got they Webecause scenes existing trimmed slightly even saying,kept we’ve I because thing sincerity/irony whole the was ful.us to interesting was What disrespect- and inappropriate seemed thought House,we Hell but real a in have do you which room, prayer group final the was House Hell our from excluded intentionally we thing only comedic.overtly wasn’t but spirit The irreverent an had that it,cartoon do a to planned initially that cartoon a found postcards.we about Eventually opinions beliefs.different group’s had another we at then look And anthropological serious a or simply,press happening.” is “This say to wanted She the to say should we it.thought about I people tell you how about disagreed idea.we great But St.[at Feldman Susan trouble.to into Ann’s it took Warehouse]we a And was it thought who get you purposes.then political Because for it doing were who people getting weren’t we sure make to wanted we because us.tricky to really fascinating America? was was casting That And in happening was this this,know was,for you it and Did question a with out start shows our of conversation.State State/Blue Red lot the A about people.”really by was it time the at Because TIMBERS: Weseen be said,should it like feel also hate,“Wewe of but theatre a is this think SA out.”win will message the think said, we And “Wewill,okay.”it but think don’t this.do to to want want we And said,and Roberts Keenan Pastor “Look,contacted off? we this we And pull you ing,do how rights the get to order in them to lied them,they because RAN: So you were up front about it. about front up were you So VRAN: Dance Dance RevolutionDanceOhioTheatre,Dance . New York City, (Photo by 2008. really do it.do it.”Weof fun make to want don’t said, he And “We — had run the year before when we when before year the run had TimeOut understandably — it was just awful. So we were think- were awful.we just So was it — it was a comedic satire comedic a was it

Les Freres Corbusier 51 New I love — [2003] and and we can’t do this — Drummer Wanted Wanted Drummer understand what they’re saying. We talked them We do understand what they’re saying. to That pull used one to over happen on more people. in the days of the , isn’t there , something about the pageantry of the Scientology Pageant — Corbusier. The reason I liked it was because it seemed exactly Corbusier. what the com- , it’s Hell a House, kind of blank parody.

Church? les frères les frères after that, a after loss that, of so innocence it’s happens, not funny anymore when kids are saying always puts an accent on the No There’s company one a name. else very ever does that. —

dumb. dumb. RAN: And I VRAN: could spot the kids who just want to be stars. VRAN: I know that you And were besides brought the up obvious Roman Catholic. VRAN: Like RAN: And of course, And that of was VRAN: course, not even his real name. RAN: What about What VRAN: your about name? Le Corbusier? I can sort of imagine you the VRAN: In thinking about the tradition of which you’re I a can’t part, help but think of there are so many different ways of defining camp. Well, VRAN: Catholic TIMBERS: Right out I of was college, seriously considering going for an MA in performance And ritual I For technique think me, is one studies. really of interesting. the successes of the Wooster The company Particularly is in mash-ups. in trying to follow a format rigorously. crazy things. And all the kids crazy in things. that show yes! TIMBERS: I Oh, very carefully pick I the always kids, get a girl who kind of lisps or stut- ters as Because the you can angel. would think you would have as someone your who, narrator, And you always at see least a speak. couple and of a couple kids who want to be on Broadway, I want who the might mix have of just some different wandered kid’s types. in, brother. SA connection with the thought, It’d be thought, really There’s funny something particularly if about ages kids kids, 8 did this. to 12 but through we it, also explain that when they people do love it in a particular confused manner, People want it. to believe that they haven’t a clue what they’re saying. SA , which is , still very complicated to Because think I’ve about. actually been Scientology Pageant with Scientologists and when they started talking to me they about get it, very upset. SA TIMBERS: It’s sort of like kids doing I [Richard] saw Maxwell. Yorker Yorker little-boy side mischievous, to me that likes it when the company is able so much anymore TIMBERS: And it’s not grammatically correct either. That’s why I find itAnd funnyit’s whenTIMBERS: not the grammatically correct either. SA pany’s about. It pany’s sounds about. like a experimental completely theatre pretentious, company name, but then when And you that think it’s It’s is about really the it, stupid. Corbusier Brothers. just illegitimate progeny of a modernist icon. The name TIMBERS: came from that first piece so when we were the disciples of Corbusier, we were camp in that way. I just don’t think of it camp in in that the context way. of the company. SA because they It were was evangelicals. a But Rorschach some test. people did not like that aspect They want to be of told it. what it is. SA weird, And campy, really or bizarre, early Charles Busch. Ethyl Charles Eichelberger, Ludlam, grotesque comedy. The funny TIMBERS: thing is I don’t really like I Ludlam’s read shows. Ludlam’s plays but I never actually saw him and do I them, know it’s not the same seeing others I stage think them. of And Ludlam yet as I one have of my a my grandparents. real forebears, aversion I to camp. think you could describe some of our work but as I camp, like to think that it isn’t. SA And I TIMBERS: direct drag queens I a direct lot. Miss Richfield and Dixie Longate Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29September 2021

52 David Savran had expected.had (Laughs.) what not name.Yalewas full It actor’s single every announcing megaphone a on someone had theatre.call the curtain across the them then shooting And and end the at CEO the of innards bonkers.was Repertory set...it the Theatre out pulling Wewere they as cannons confetti had avantgarde of American sort glass and white stark this on performed was mercenaries,it less and ruth- were crazy,bosses was bosses,the Which their all by impregnated were women the all nine forth.and they’re,titlecards,back where whole had Corbusier like,thing the we Le And pulling bourgeoisie the to tainment aggressive,match,up boxing lowbrow,serving a as theatre the describes he enter subversive song a have to action dramatic the ping a of persuasive,didacticism the bald-faced and Freres. Totheatre educational performing as company the describe extent,could some you fan.a Brecht of huge idea a basic I’m The TIMBERS: SA it cele vilifying or people vilified celebrating you’re where argument negative lot,Brechtian a that do we thing other the argument, is the which flipping you’re winks.when and Or nods little the again,era disco the it’s like feel you make that details little the in too.all that It’s does Group PublicTheater, New York City, Campbell-Holt) Adrienne (Photo by 2009 elite.” the against “Take stand a Barry): James ( Soloist Male 10. Figure of those ended in trials and kangaroo courts.kangaroo and trials in ended those of and successful. RAN: I’m a little surprised to hear you mention Brecht.mention you hear Brecht? to Why surprised little a I’m VRAN: My final college production was a Brechtian a was production college final My brated people brated Scientology PageantScientology plays, Brecht’s both of influenced. two-thirds clearly Like most the were yards. — the rigor with which you pursue that, and that point of view,of point that,that pursue and you which makes with what rigor is the — these sorts of things are completely relevant to our work.our to relevant completely are things of sorts these — that is very pertinent to pertinent very is that actually ended in a in ended actually Boozy is a close cousin to that.to cousin close Lehrstücka Also,is - stop How to Succeed [ to How is valuable as it relates to Les to relates it as Lehrstückvaluable is Bloody Bloody Andrew JacksonBloodyAndrew . in Business without Really without Business in Trying ]. Andrew JacksonAndrew how .like I Caucasian Chalk Circle Chalk Caucasian Boozy - Les Freres Corbusier 53 Bloody Bloody Bloody Bloody Bloody Bloody I guess Gutenberg, my top- — — Hell House and Hedda Gabler . All my larger-scale All my larger-scale Heddatron. show, was one of Nibelungen show, now. , Radiohole’s , Wurst Brace Up! the Ivo van Brace Hove . KirkAndrew Jackson Douglas Center Theater, TheatreGroup, Los Angeles, Schwartz) 2008. (Photo by Craig Figure 11. Andrew Jackson (Ben Walker): “Populism, Yea, Yea!” Yea!” Yea, “Populism, Walker): (Ben Jackson 11. Andrew Figure credit, and then credit, you’re in but the until club, you there’s get it, Elevator Repair Service, Richard Maxwell, Radiohole, Wooster Wooster Radiohole, Elevator Richard Repair Maxwell, Service, —

- . And then the companies we’ve . really loved Andrew Jackson Peter and the Star- Peter , is writing Boys, Jersey is a model for

shows. shows.

January–7 February 2010; VRAN: Do you ever see anything on Broadway? VRAN: Other playwrights or practitioners? is explosive. Given the Tea Party’s recent the electoral play victories, testi- Party’s Tea Given is the explosive. Andrew Jackson Bloody excruciating habit of It repeatingdiscloses itself. the tragedyfies not but to of history’s Jackson, viscerally about the of It the is USA. baldly, work can be traced back to a Les Freres show. And my work goal can would be be traced someday back to to be a a Les Steven Freres show. There is no theatre Soderbergh director type. out there who does big commercial shows and That’s the sort of experimental career theatre. path political, I would complicated, also small, see what happens. We’ll like to have. 20 September 2010: Context On changes the everything. Broadway stage, Postscript, while an upcoming Roundabout musical ultimately came from no way The to Disney become show part came of about it. because of ile. I findile. some of her stuff is amazing and some of it...pre- I’m codirecting cious. that with Roger Rees; and Rick Elice, who wrote I’m doing it. another show for Disney that’s a bigger musical based on a holiday film The they thing have with the rights to. commercial theatre is you need a SA I try to see TIMBERS: almost I every see musical tons unless on I Broadway. think it’s going to be just I’m a developing throwback. a couple things for Broadway for commercial producers and so it’s been interesting to figure out how that relation- The next ship’s going to work. thing I’m going to do is the Herman show with Pee-Wee That’ll be in LA Paul Reubens. [12 did it out in La We . Catchers Jolla in January [2009] and it went as To really a well, Page Stage [a play development pro- It’s about gram]. how Peter Pan became Peter Pan and Captain Hook became Captain and it Hook, utilizes Mary Zimmerman–style story-the- but atre more techniques, vir the best I’ve It’s ever up seen. there with ever on Broadway 26 October 2010]. Then for Disney is a Peter Pan prequel called Group, exactly the Group, people you mentioned. when I say “we” “me” I mean when “we” I say SA TIMBERS: I really I And like feel certain Dürrenmatt, there’s plays: a sensibility relationship. Coriolanus Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00023 by guest on 29 September 2021