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OFFICIAL REPORT - 12th MEETING OF THE 2nd NYD 24 -28 June 2013 NTLO YA DIKGOSI DEBATES NYD nd MEETING OF THE 2 th 24 -28 June 2013 OFFICIAL REPORT - 12 OFFICIAL REPORT

OFFICIAL REPORT - 12TH MEETING OF THE 2ND NTLO YA DIKGOSI 24 - 28 June 2013 THE PROCEEDINGS

of the

12TH MEETING

of the

2ND NTLO YA DIKGOSI (Official Report)

Sitting from 24 - 28 June 2013 i NTLO YA DIKGOSI CHAIRMAN Kgosi Puso Gaborone Batlokwa DEPUTY CHAIRMAN Kgosi T. F. Tshipe Region MEMBERS Kgosi K. Boiditswe Region Kgosi I. Gaoonwe Region Kgosi B. Garebakwena Region Kgosi M. Kahiko III West Kgosi S. H. Kgamane Bangwato Kgosi Kgari III Bakwena Kgosi K. Lempadi Okavango Region Kgosi Lotlamoreng II Barolong Kgosi O. Machilidza Boteti Region Kgosi M. Malema Bobirwa Region kgosi Malope II Bangwaketse Kgosi T. M. Masunga North East Kgosi M. Mmualefhe Chobe Region Kgosi A. O. Monnaathebe Kgosi P. K. Montshiwa Kgalagadi North Kgosi K. Moremi Batawana Kgosi S. Moroka Tswapong Kgosi J. Moseki Ghanzi East Kgosi T. B. Ndzonga Kgosi B. Ramokone Kanye Kgosi K. Ramokwena Maun Kgosi E. Potsoeng Ngami Region Kgosi M. Seboko Balete Kgosi P. Seeletso Region Kgosi P. Sekwenyane Ngwaketse West Kgosi K. Telekelo Kgosi Toto II Kgalagadi South Kgosi S. Esterhuizen Specially Elected Kgosi M. Moeti Specially Elected Kgosi M. Seemeko Specially Elected Kgosi M. M. Sinvula Specially Elected Kgosi T. Xao Specially Elected

ii Secretary : N. Thebe

Ass. Secretary : M. Moreri

Layout : Bakang B. Khumanego Dennis T. Batshegi

Edited by : E. Jean

Translated by : K. Nyanga K. Ben M. Kagiso B. Morakanyane

Typesetting : Hansard Reporters

iii Table of Contents

Chairman’s Remarks ...... 1, 74

Motions

Collaboration With Cellular Phone Companies...... 89 Resumed Debate...... 117 Enactment of a Law that Regulates Religion in ...... 44 Increase of Carcass Prices at Maun BMC...... 19 Introduction of Tax Levy to the Casino Control Board Motion – Deferred...... 117

Provision of Allowance to Village Development Committee (VDC) Members...... 89 Reviewing the Composition of the Regional Electoral College...... 117

Swearing in of Dikgosi Before Assumption of Duty...... 85 Village Responsibility Allowance for Dikgosi...... 100 Resumed Debate...... 86 Questions for Oral Answer...... 3, 32, 53, 74, 107

iv Monday 24th June, 2013 CHAIRMAN’S OPENING REMARKS Monday 24th June, 2013 Poverty Eradication operate. We were able to identify and relate THE HOUSE met at 10 a.m. with some of the challenges (THE CHAIRPERSON in the that farming is faced with and Chair) I believe we shall take it upon ourselves to relay them to our P R A Y E R S communities, who will assist with interventions. It is evident * * * * that Batswana are not interested in farming and one of the CHAIRMAN’S OPENING contributing factors is alcohol REMARKS abuse.

MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI The second activity was the GABORONE): Honourable briefings we had with various Assistant Minister of Local Government Departments, Government and Rural Parastatals and Non-Government Development, Deputy Chairman Organisations at Botswana of Ntlo Ya Dikgosi, Kgosi Bureau of Standards (BOBS). Tshipe, Honourable Members This was an opportunity for us of this House and officials, I to get an appraisal on policies greet you all. Today marks the and programs implemented and beginning of the 12th Meeting of our role in their implementation. the 2nd Ntlo Ya Dikgosi winter Moreover, I believe touring session. To those who have not University of Botswana was been with us, this session had an eye opener for us. It was an three activities; the first one indication of our Government’s was the trip to Pandamatenga investment in education and to appreciate farming and the other new initiatives which developments for generating empower and educate Batswana. food in this country. I believe Our Briefings covered a vast that Honourable Members number of topics and majority were able to appreciate the of them have not been discussed efforts. Unfortunately this was in our House before. Some a drought season and it affected of them have the capacity to farming. However, we were turn around the economy of able to see how programs like this country. The Leather Park Livestock Management and Project is one of them because it Infrastructure Development can benefit Batswana who invest (LIMID), Backyard Gardens and in it and generate profit for our 1 Monday 24th June, 2013 CHAIRMAN’S OPENING REMARKS country. Some of these briefings as parents to be role models included updates on issues of to our children and take a full Foot and mouth disease, others responsibility of establishing our covered Cooperatives and I families which will build a strong believe that the presentation on foundation for this country. I share Competition Authority benefitted the same sentiments with Kgosi the Honourable Members as Masunga on the importance well. Issues of proliferation of of family. Without this social churches and its consequences unit, there is no foundation. are some of the issues that Therefore, a family should be a Honourable Members will look foundation from which a father into analytically. Perhaps one of and mother will guide and the key issues that were discussed mould their children. I believe was that of destruction of crops we all want to see our country by livestock and we recently as a transformed and responsible discussed it with the Ministry nation. As a way of welcoming of Local Government and Rural you to this Honourable House Development. This is one of this morning, that is all I wanted the contributing factors that continue to suffocate the efforts to say. This week shall be mainly made by our Government and I for questions and motions that believe Honourable Members have been tabled by Honourable will honour their word and Members. conduct Kgotla meetings in their I want to believe that Honourable respective regions about this. At Ministers will also be with us the end of it all, we shall be able throughout the week so that to come up with proposals which we may be able to execute our we shall then hand over to the mandate and responsibility which Ministry of Local Government our Government has delegated and Rural Development for us to implement. If Bogosi could implementation. be accorded the respect they One other imperative issue which deserve, then the public would I believe Honourable Members be able to appreciate the role will tackle is the issue of alcohol we play as an institution. The intake, unprotected sex and whole intention is to collaborate teenage pregnancy in schools. with our Government in order to execute our mandate. With This issue encompasses a lot that being said, I would like to of aspects and it prompts us welcome you to this meeting. 2 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS We shall start with questions as ASSISTANT MINISTER stipulated in the Order Paper. OF FINANCE AND DEVELOPMENT QUESTIONS FOR ORAL PLANNING (HON V.T. ANSWERS SERETSE): Mr Chairman, as NUMBER OF FARMERS the Honourable House may be GRANTED LOANS IN aware, Value Added Tax (VAT) GHANZI WEST BY CEDA is a consumption tax which is levied on a wide range of goods KGOSI KAHIKO III and services. The tax is paid by (GHANZI WEST REGION): the consumers of those goods A very good morning to you Mr and services. VAT is meant to Chairman and thank you for this provide the Government with the opportunity. I have received a resources it needs to undertake message regarding question one, various development projects and that the responsible Minister is programmes, on a sustainable absent, therefore, I shall defer it basis. The Government has set, until he comes. I thank you. as its broad policy, an objective MR CHAIRMAN: Thank to maintain a wide tax base with you Kgosi Kahiko, question very few exemptions at a low rate number one deferred until the of VAT so as to reduce the impact Honourable Minister comes. of this tax on consumers. This policy enables the Government Question-Deferred to mitigate the costs that would have to be borne by consumers if EXEMPTION OF the VAT rate were to be increased. VALUE ADDED TAX ON ELECTRICITY If electricity connection for CONNECTION FOR horticultural projects was to be exempted from VAT, the HORTICULTURAL Government would suffer a PROJECTS revenue loss in which case the KGOSI T. B. NDZONGA Government may be forced to recover through other means, (TUTUME REGION): asked such as an increase in the VAT the Minister of Finance and rate on other goods and services, Development Planning if he will in order to collect the same level consider exempting Value Added of the VAT revenue. Higher tax Tax (VAT) from electricity rates would adversely affect connection for Horticultural households and businesses and projects. this must be avoided.

3 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS Mr Chairman, in 2011 the MR CHAIRMAN: Thank Government amended the you Honourable Minister. I VAT Act to exempt a wide would like to acknowledge the range of farming equipment presence of the Deputy Speaker from VAT. This has resulted in of the National Assembly as I revenue loss for Government. did not acknowledge him in my The exemption of electricity welcome note, you are welcome consumed by horticultural into this House. projects from VAT would lead to increased tax expenditure and KGOSI NDZONGA: Thank unintended complexities in the you Mr Chairman. Will it not administration of the tax, given be beneficial for Batswana that other businesses also depend in rural areas if Government on electricity supply as an input. was to meet them half way in Further, exempting horticultural payment of tax for Horticulture projects from VAT would deny projects? The electricity charges businesses in the sector the are so expensive such that if tax opportunity to claim input tax was to be included, it will be a credits inherent in the VAT confirmed failure for Batswana. I system. This may result in the thank you. increased costs of production for HONOURABLE V.T. the sector and ultimately higher SERETSE: Mr Chairman I prices to consumers. do understand where Kgosi is coming from but as we may Mr Chairman, if we exempt Horticultural projects from VAT all be aware, we have shortage on electricity connection, other of electricity supply in our sectors would come forward to country which forces us to buy advocate for exemption from from outside. We should note VAT. In the end, Government’s that horticulture is not the only efforts to collect revenue through project that uses electricity, if we charging VAT would be defeated were to consider it, that means and Government would be unable to carry out development all those who use electricity will projects. Given the above, my submit their requests and if that Ministry would not consider happens, Government revenue exempting Value Added Tax will go down. (VAT) from electricity connection for Horticultural projects. I thank IMPORTANCE OF BORDER you Mr Chairman. SCANNERS 4 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS KGOSI K. BOIDITSWE trade facilitation. For instance, (SEROWE REGION): asked whereas previously it took up to the Minister of Finance and 12 hours for BURS officials to Development Planning to explain offload and examine the contents how the border scanners have of a forty feet container, this assisted in curbing the habit of activity can now be undertaken not declaring goods at the border. within 20 minutes through the use of scanners, which results ASSISTANT MINISTER in improved efficiency. Mr OF FINANCE AND Chairman, we are aware of the DEVELOPMENT importance of installing scanners PLANNING (HON V. T. at all of our other border posts. SERETSE): Mr Chairman, Funds permitting; this will be the Botswana Unified Revenue done. In addition to efficiency Service (BURS) installed two and trade facilitation, the use of cargo scanners at scanners is expected to have a Border Post and Gaborone deterrent effect which may not Container Terminal in February, be easy to quantify. 2012 with the view to increase the BURS ability to detect I thank you, Mr Chairman. contrabands and deter the cross border smuggling of goods. KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Thank you Mr Chairman. Honourable Since the introduction of the Minister rumor has it that those cargo scanners, the recorded who do not want to declare their number of intercepted goods would rather use borders contrabands increased sharply. that do not have these scanners, During the period between April so how do you intend to address 2012 and March 2013, there were such situation. 23 instances where undeclared goods were detected through the HONOURABLE V. T. use of the cargo scanners. As a SERETSE: Thank you result, BURS collected P2.66 Chairman. We have identified million in additional customs border posts that have an duties and Value Added Tax and increased number of customers. penalties totaling P1.08 million. We have increased surveillance The use of cargo scanners has in those border posts to make also improved the turnaround sure that we guard against period for the examination contrabands entering the country. of goods thus contributing to Thank you.

5 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS KGOSI SEKWENYANE: ACTING MINISTER OF Honourable Minister we are AGRICULTURE (HON faced with a problem of being TSHIRELETSO): Thank you unable to sell our maize in South Mr Chairman. I would like Africa. Why is that so? to apologise on behalf of the Honourable Minister De Graff MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI and his assistant as they could GABORONE): I think the not make it to this Honourable question that Kgosi has just House. He is out of Gaborone asked is a new one altogether; it and his assistant is out of the is not supplementary country and coming back on Friday. I shall therefore request KGOSI BOIDITSWE: to respond on their behalf. Thank you Mr Chairman and Honourable Minister Mr Chairman, I am aware that theleriosis occasionally occurs THELERIOSIS DISEASE IN in the Tutume area and that TUTUME REGION it causes mortality in cattle. However, the disease occurs KGOSI T. B. NDZONGA sporadically, and depends much (TUTUME REGION): asked on the presence and population the Minister of Agriculture: dynamics of the host ticks which transmit it to cattle. This makes it (i) if he is aware that theleriosis difficult to predict its occurrence disease is still prevalent and therefore avail the drugs. in Tutume Region and is The problem with stocking causing a lot of animal butalex is that it is extremely deaths; if so expensive, and it has a short shelf life. Therefore stocking it in the (ii) what control measures does absence of the disease may cause he have in place to control wastage. However, whenever the the disease; and disease re-emerges the Ministry stocks the drugs. Mr Chairman, (iii) if the Minister is aware in the meantime, farmers should that butalex drug is not be mindful that as with other available in all Livestock tick-borne diseases, it is far more Advisory Centres in effective and cost effective to Botswana, if so when does prevent rather than attempt to he intend to avail the drug. treat outbreaks of the disease.

6 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS Farmers are urged to ensure that HONOURABLE their livestock is dipped regularly TSHIRELETSO: I have been with dips readily available in the informed that the Ministry Livestock Advisory Centres. was aware of that and in some instances the delay or failure Thank you, Mr Chairman. to stock is due to failure to be proactive by the administration. KGOSI MACHILIDZA Nevertheless, when the disease (BOTETI REGION): The re-emerges, we make it a point Honourable Minister has just that we stock the drug. That stated that this medicine has a is why we really encourage short shelf life, now my question farmers to take control measures is if that is the case, where do by dipping the animals so that they store it so that it can be we eliminate it. We shall urge easily accessible because the the administration to act fast to disease is problematic? distribute the drug timely. I thank you. HONOURABLE TSHIRELETSO: In my KGOSI NDZONGA: Thank you response, I have pointed out that Mr Chairman and Honourable in instances where the disease Minister. emerges, the drug is stocked. LIVESTOCK Now since its life-span is short, MANAGEMENT AND we cannot stock it when the INFRASTRUCTURE disease is not there because it DEVELOPMENT expires quickly. When the drug is PROGRAMME stocked during the emergence of KGOSI D. S. TOTO II the disease, farmers are notified (KGALAGADI SOUTH of the time frame to eradicate it. REGION): asked the Minister I thank you. of Agriculture if he does not consider the Livestock KGOSI NDZONGA: Thank Management and Infrastructure you Mr Chairman. Is the Development (LIMID) program Honourable Minister aware that contradictory in the sense that there was an attack of this disease farmers who benefited cannot in the past two consecutive years be assisted with funds to expand their businesses in spite of in the month of November and the fact that the first business we were informed that there are was successful and the farmer no drugs for it? intended to expand it. 7 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS ACTING MINISTER OF response that LIMID is meant to AGRICULTURE (HON kick start businesses for farmers TSHIRELETSO): Mr and if the business is successful, Chairman, my Ministry does it is upon the farmer to take not consider the Livestock further measures that will help Management and Infrastructure them expand their business like Development (LIMID) applying for loans at the banks. Programme contradictory when That is how this program runs. farmers who benefited cannot It does not operate like Citizen be assisted with funds to expand Entrepreneurial Development their businesses in spite of Agency (CEDA) where farmers the fact that the first business can always ask for a top up to was successful. A farmer can expand the business. A farmer benefit only once from a LIMID can only be accorded one chance component. This gives other to kick start a business. I thank farmers who had not benefited at you. all from LIMID the opportunity to be assisted also. Farmers KGOSI TOTO II whose businesses are successful (KGALAGADI SOUTH): are continuously monitored and Thank you Mr Chairman. Is the given technical assistance. Honourable Minister implying Mr Chairman, LIMID is a grant that this programme is tailor that helps one to start a business made for small scale farmers and if a farmer is successful he only? must approach other funding MR CHAIRMAN: I did not sources like banks to grow quite get you Kgosi Toto. the business. I thank you, Mr Chairman. KGOSI TOTO II: Mr Chairman, the Honourable MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi Minister has indicated that this Machilidza. program is meant to kick start HONOURABLE HOUSE: businesses, now my question is, (inaudible) if the farmer wishes to expand the business, will that be allowed MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable or it is only meant for small scale Minister. projects?

HONOURABLE HONOURABLE TSHIRELETSO: Mr Chairman, TSHIRELETSO: LIMID has I have pointed out earlier on in my indeed expanded; we do not only 8 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS cover small scale businesses. We is saying. We are pleading with have given so many people goats the Honourable Minister to be to kick-start their businesses and serious with her responses. We as we speak, they are rich because would like to establish the set their businesses are successful. limit for this program, if the After the grant, farmers expand, farmer wants to expand, can the they do not just keep the small program assist? That is what we number they were given, they need clarified. start from nothing to something. As we all know, a farmer is given HONOURABLE 20 goats or less, if it is cattle, they TSHIRELETSO: Do are given four cattle or less. The Honourable Members want number they are given multiplies me to respond with a yes or no in such a manner that they will be answer or I should go into detail? able to sell to people and make When I say small stock, I am profit out of it not a loss. referring to someone who does not have anything at all, we give I would like to point that it is something to start on a business. solely the responsibility of a This program is tailored made farmer to improvise strategies for such and on the issue of that will blossom their business. expansion of the business; the The reason why Financial farmer can now apply for loans Assistance Policy (FAP) did not in banks in order to be able to work is because people misused expand. it. Instead of using the money for the intended purpose, they Livestock Management and used it for something else then Infrastructure Development went back to FAP to ask for a top program (LIMID) has different up. With LIMID, we have seen categories. Some start from a tremendous development on nothing, some need help to the side of farmers. Some of the advance what they already farmers are in remote areas far have. A grant is given to those from adequate resources. I even that do not have anything at all. have a witness in this House; I will request the Minister for Kgosi Xao who can attest to the Agriculture to have a slot in one development LIMID has brought of the briefings to come and brief in Grootlagte. I thank you. Honourable Members about this KGOSI LEMPADI program and how it operates. It (OKAVANGO REGION): You has shown that there is still a lot did not understand what Kgosi to learn on how it operates. One 9 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS more thing that I nearly left out MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI is that LIMID can help those TSHIPE): We shall continue who already have cattle to buy with questions. something that they might be in need of in their farming. Those LICENCES TO TRANSPORT that do not have anything, they LIVE CATTLE FROM are given grants so that they can NGAMILAND DISTRICT TO start on something but there is no extra money that is given if the KGOSI M. KAHIKO III individual has claimed before; in (GHANZI WEST): asked the essence an individual is entitled Minister of Agriculture to state; to only one opportunity. I nearly made a mistake of leaving out (i) what criteria were used to that vital information. I thank grant two companies the you. licenses to transport live cattle from Ngamiland KGOSI TOTO II: Thank you District to Zimbabwe? Mr Chairman. I would really appreciate it if Ministry of (ii) whether the companies are Agriculture could have a briefing owned by Batswana or not; with us to explain these issues in detail because there are some (iii) why Ngamiland farmers unanswered questions that need were not allowed to form to be ironed out. I thank you. a cooperative society to transport their own cattle to MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you benefit from this exercise; Kgosi Toto. I believe they have and noted that. They always have a slot in our briefings to brief us on (iv) what the benefits are for the foot and mouth, so I believe this Government and Botswana time around they shall change Meat Commission from their topic and address us on these companies. LIMID and how it operates. On that note, we shall suspend the ACTING MINISTER OF proceedings and go for tea, we AGRICULTURE (HON will come back at 11:00 a.m. TSHIRELETSO): Mr PROCEEDINGS Chairman, the Ministry is not SUSPENDED FOR involved in granting licenses for APPROXIMATELY 30 transportation of live cattle from MINUTES Ngamiland to Zimbabwe; instead 10 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS the buyers who are Zimbabwean Furthermore, since there is collect cattle and identify constant Foot and Mouth transporters for themselves. outbreak in Ngamiland, when the situation stabilizes, are Live cattle sold by Botswana they going to be accorded an Meat Commission (BMC) to opportunity to sell their cattle Zimbabwean customers are collected and transported by the too so as to make profit out of Zimbabwean customer who is it? If not, does that mean the at liberty to contract whoever Ngamiland residents will never they want (Zimbabwean or benefit from the resources of Batswana). All Botswana this country? I thank you Mr transporters who were Chairman. transporting cattle to Zimbabwe when the transportation was HONOURABLE being facilitated by the Ministry TSHIRELETSO: Mr of Agriculture were advised Chairman, we only respond to the to contact the Zimbabwean question asked and the question customer and/or his agent if they sought to establish the mode were interested in transporting of transport used to transport cattle to Zimbabwe for the cattle to Zimbabwe. Our customer. response was that the Ministry is not responsible for identifying I thank you, Mr Chairman. the transport but rather the KGOSI MACHILIDZA transportation is identified by (BOTETI REGION): Thank the customer. During that time you Mr Chairman. I did not when BMC was responsible for quite understand the Honourable the transportation, they would Minister’s response; nevertheless advise them to contact the agent I shall ask my question. Does the to establish if they have their Honourable Minister mean the own transport or if they should customer identifies their own transport in Botswana? Who is provide them with it. Even up responsible for transportation to this moment, we still check logistics and checking bolus in the bolus and liaise with Zimbabwe cattle, is it still the responsibility for selling. As for transport, it is of the Zimbabweans while we upon the customer to organize have qualified Batswana who it themselves. I thank you Mr can do that? Chairman.

11 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS KGOSI KAHIKO III: they can do is they can simply Following the response on negotiate the business based on part three of the question, what the charges. Government cannot makes it difficult for Ngamiland decide for them. farmers to form their own I believe our Government cooperative societies to transport accords Batswana equal their own cattle to benefit from opportunities, for instance when this exercise because it has been the mine at Mmamabula was 15 years without selling? opened, I encouraged Batswana to build residential housing so HONOURABLE that they can rent to the miners TSHIRELETSO: I am not sure instead of having foreigners if Kgosi Kahiko is on the same taking the business and renting page with us and Honourable to them. We should also be Members concerning the encouraged as individuals to formation of cooperative look for opportunities around societies, Government has and reduce too much dependence got nothing to do with that. on Government. I thank you. The question was asking why Ngamiland farmers were not KGOSI KAHIKO III: Is it not allowed to form a cooperative the responsibility of the Minister society to transport their own to inform the Ngamiland cattle to benefit from this residents about the opportunity exercise. I want to believe to transport cattle to Zimbabwe that the Ngamiland residents just like you did with your were never denied the chance constituents? This means the to form their own cooperative Minister did not support Maun societies so that they can sell to residents… Zimbabwe. The issue of transport MR CHAIRMAN: Be specific is upon customers and right now and ask your question Kgosi what they do is they negotiate the Kahiko, if you do not have it, logistics to transport to countries thank the Honourable Minister. like South Africa, Zambia and KGOSI KAHIKO III: It was a Zimbabwe. Sometimes we see question; it is only that you did local registrations transporting to not get it. other countries, it is because they would have negotiated business HONOURABLE there. As for the societies, no one TSHIRELETSO: Kgosi when was ever denied the chance, what I cited that example, I was not 12 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS speaking as a Minister but as problem of cattle bolus in Ghanzi a Member of Parliament. This South will be resolved. question should not have been asked unless the community or ACTING MINISTER OF Kgosi himself has been denied AGRICULTURE (HON the chance to open their own TSHIRELETSO): The cooperative society. I am not Ministry acknowledges that the aware that Ngamiland residents bolus system is facing several were denied the chance to constraints throughout the negotiate with the Zimbabweans country including Ghanzi South. to transport cattle. I thank you. The constraints include logistical problems, shortage of bolus and KGOSI KAHIKO III: Let me other technical problems as well thank you Honourable Minister as transport problems. Although but the way this was done was not it is difficult to predict when the proper because the arrangement problems will be resolved, my to sell cattle… Ministry is undertaking several initiatives to address them. These MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi include a switch to ear tag based Kahiko, just thank the Minister if system whose implementation that is what you want to do. has commenced. The project KGOSI KAHIKO: I am, Mr started with a pilot in South East Chairman even though the District in June. As most of the answer that the Honourable teething problems are resolved, Minister gave is contradictory to the project will be rapidly rolled an answer that was once given out to the rest of the country. somewhere else on a similar The Ministry is in the process matter; it was stated that there of procuring 500 000 boluses were tenders that were issued for which are anticipated to be this transportation. So basically, I delivered by end of July. This have not been answered. I thank will go a long way towards you. addressing the bolus shortage problem even in Ghanzi South. RESOLVING THE Transport availability remains PROBLEM OF BOLUS IN one of the biggest challenges GHANZI SOUTH facing implementation of the KGOSI M. KAHIKO III bolus system. The Government (GHANZI WEST): asked the will continue to look for ways Minister of Agriculture when the to address this problem which is 13 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS largely due to shortage of funds. HONOURABLE I urge the farming community to TSHIRELETSO: These continue to assist the Ministry in 500 000 boluses are ear tags. whatever way they can to assist in this respect. Thank you Mr Let me read the answer again; it Chairman. reads thus, ‘The project will be repeatedly rolled out to the rest KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH of the country. Mr Chairman, EAST): Thank you Mr the Ministry is in the process of Chairman. I would like to procuring 500,000 boluses which know what will happen to the are anticipated to be delivered.’ bolus equipment since they are The Honourable Member did switching to the ear tag. Will it be well to ask for clarification given back to the manufacturer at because the response is talking a price? I thank you. about boluses. I assumed that these 500,000 boluses refer to HONOURABLE the ear tags, I am not certain on TSHIRELETSO: Mr this one Mr Chairman. Chairman, I will take this back to the Minister because it was KGOSI KAHIKO III: not in the question, so as the Honourable Minister we have acting Minister, I am not in a been having this problem for position to respond. Thank you quite some time and right now Mr Chairman. we have young people who have been granted loans by CEDA to KGOSI POTSOENG (NGAMI buy cattle. The challenge is they REGION): Thank you Mr cannot sell because their cattle Chairman. The Honourable do not have bolus. How will Minister has indicated that the they be able to pay back the loan Ministry is in the process of if they cannot sell? I wanted to procuring about 500 000 boluses know when this problem will be very soon, which will be taken to resolved. Ghanzi Region. Still on that, she has further indicated that they are HONOURABLE introducing the ear tag because TSHIRELETSO: Mr Chairman, the bolus has proven to be Kgosi Kahiko III is just repeating problematic. Now my question what I mentioned in my response. is, what are they still doing with I stated that we have been faced the 500 000 boluses that will be with constraints of shortage of taken to Ghanzi region? bolus, technical problems and 14 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS shortage of transport. However, KGOSI TOTO II the Ministry has come up with an (KGALAGADI SOUTH initiative of introducing ear tags REGION): asked the Minister to address the problem. We have of Agriculture to explain:- opted to use ear tags because it is easy to use. A pilot project has (i) the extent to which the started in South East District that Government assists farmers is why we encourage you that in who do not find water after the meantime you can continue drilling boreholes; and using the bolus. I thank you. (ii) if he will consider diverting KGOSI KAHIKO III: Thank some of the funds from you Honourable Minister but the existing agricultural let me point out that there is programs to assist such really nothing being done about farmers. this problem. I am saying this because sometimes we go an ACTING MINISTER OF extra mile of providing our AGRICULTURE (HON own transport for the officers to TSHIRELETSO): Thank you come to our farms, but you will Mr Chairman. My Ministry find that there is no bolus or the assists farmers to drill boreholes machine that is used to insert it through the LIMID programme. is not working. We are talking Farmers who do not find water about the lives of Batswana here, after drilling are assisted to drill your department… deeper until the maximum grant is exhausted. The maximum MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi grant for drilling boreholes is Kahiko you are not supposed to P120, 000.00. debate.

KGOSI KAHIKO III: Let me There is no provision to assist conclude Mr Chairman before farmers who do not strike water you throw me out of the House. I when they drill. In the event that would like to urge your Ministry the farmer hits a blank and has to act on this issue. Thank you exhausted his grant, the losses Mr Chairman. are still shared by the farmer and my Ministry. Therefore no ASSISTANCE GIVEN TO funds need to be diverted from FARMERS WHO DO NOT programs that have different FIND WATER AFTER purposes to assist the farmers. DRILLING BOREHOLES Thank you. 15 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS KGOSI TOTO II period. The main reasons for (KGALAGADI SOUTH underutilization are: REGION): Thank you Mr Chairman. a) Some farmers indicate that the loading facilities are far COST OF CATTLE KRAALS from their cattle posts. IN CENTRAL REGION b) Some farmers have KGOSI K. BOIDITSWE constructed their own loading (SEROWE REGION): asked bays. the Minister of Agriculture c) Lack of transport and feeder to apprise this Honourable roads to the facility location. House on how much it cost the Government to build the cattle- In order to curb this, the kraals in the Central Region and Ministry of Agriculture, why they are no longer utilised. through consultations with the farming communities, has ACTING MINISTER OF resolved to remove or relocate AGRICULTURE (HON TSHIRELETSO): Thank you any facility that is not used in Mr Chairman. The Ministry of those locations; example in the Agriculture constructed loading Central District the Mokubilo ramps in the country with the structure was removed. In objective of assisting livestock addition, the Ministry has started producers to market their stock the process of handing over the efficiently. In the Central District loading ramps to communities a total of 60 loading ramps, at in some districts like Ghanzi and sites identified by the farming Southern. Thank you. communities were constructed at a cost of P4.800, 000.00. KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Mr Chairman, I am not sure as to All these loading ramps are whether this is a supplementary utilized, though in some cases question, but the answer did not to full capacity; for the period not capture the places that I April 2012 to March 2013, a specifically asked about because total of 32,069 cattle were sold … through these loading facilities in the Central District, and only MR CHAIRMAN: four structures were not utilized Supplementary question Kgosi for the mentioned 12 months Boiditswe. 16 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS KGOSI BOIDITSWE: I was they concern the region, what saying that I am not sure as we do is we go to the region to to whether this is a relevant get the answers. Now as it is, I question or not. am not in a position to respond to the question because it is Is the Honourable Minister a new question. We were not aware that the Veterinary office even aware that there are some has informed us that the loading loading ramps that are not ramps in , Topisi and recognized by our officials. That Kgagodi are no longer in use is my challenge Mr Chairman. I therefore farmers should take thank you. their cattle to Serule? I thank you. KGOSI POTSOENG: Thank you Mr Chairman. I will just HONOURABLE ask even though the question TSHIRELETSO: Mr Chairman, was specific to one region not if I follow the question correctly, the whole country, but I was the first part states, ‘how much prompted to ask because of the it costs the Government to build response given by the Honourable the cattle kraals,’ in brackets Minister. She has mentioned that ‘(loading ramps) in Central farmers can volunteer to do their Region,’ the second part reads, own loading bays, now I want to ‘why they are no longer utilized.’ understand if Government will When you respond to a question meet them half way? like this, you only respond to what has been asked that is why HONOURABLE the answer has indicated the TSHIRELETSO: Thank you number of utilized and unutilized Mr Chairman. There are some ones. Furthermore, we stated farmers who formed a group and the reasons why they are not made their own loading bays. utilized. We were not aware that I am wondering if there is a the question was referring to the criterion or grant that farmers are one in Topisi and that makes it given to do that; nevertheless, to be a new question altogether I shall take it to the Minister to because it sought to find out if I find out. The question is relevant am aware that the one in Topisi is but I am not sure as to whether it not used and as a result, farmers is possible to get assistance from are forced to transport their own the Government should farmers cattle to Serule. When questions group themselves to do their own like these are asked in the House, bay. The Ministry of Agriculture

17 Monday 24th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS is better placed to respond to that place as compared to when one and I will ask the officer to building from the scratch. I thank take it up with the Minister then you. answer in writing to Ntlo Ya KGOSI BOIDITSWE: I Dikgosi. There are two issues understand the Honourable here that need feedback; it is Minister, but I would like to ask the one about LIMID and this the last question. Honourable one. I shall ensure that they are Minister has indicated that addressed. I thank you. almost P4 million was used to KGOSI MMUALEFHE: build these kraals and that some Thank you Mr Chairman. Was farmers have indicated they there any consultation before no longer need those kraals. these kraals were built because My question is, now that these farmers do not need these kraals they are built very far from the anymore, what measures does farmers? Again, who will be she have in place to move these responsible for the costs that will kraals to those farmers who need be incurred in relocating these them? I thank you. kraals, will it be Government or HONOURABLE the farmers? I thank you. TSHIRELETSO: I have already HONOURABLE answered that question. I listed TSHIRELETSO: Consultations the ones that are not utilized. were done, but after they were Kgosi Boiditswe has asked how built, that was when it was much was used and unfortunately realized that they were far from I did not get the last part? farmers. Some farmers built their KGOSI BOIDITSWE: I own because they could simply want to know what will be afford to do so, not because done with those kraals that are they were far from them. When built in regions where they are Government realized that some not needed. Would it not be farmers decided to build their profitable to move them to places own kraals where Government where they are needed because a had already built some, lot has been spent building them. Government took them to other I thank you. places where there was nothing. The funds will be availed but it HONOURABLE is more expensive if the facility TSHIRELETSO: I have will have to be moved to another indicated the reasons why they 18 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion are not utilized and even some 60 ramps that are there, only four of those that are utilized are are underutilized. not used to full capacity. I also indicated that for the period of In Mokubilo, the structure has April 2012 to March 2013, the already been removed and total number of cattle that were relocated to another place. In sold through this facility was addition, the Minister has started 32069. In Central District, only the process of handing over these four structures out of 60 were loading ramps to communities in not utilized for the mentioned some districts like Ghanzi and 12 months. The main reasons for Southern Region. We are also in underutilizations are that some the process of handing over the farmers indicate that the loading Central Region ramps over to the facilities are far from their cattle community as well. I think I have post, so they constructed their covered it well on the issue of own loading bases. money and utilization, but I also admitted that we are not aware of the Topisi one. I thank you. Some have also given the reason that there is lack of transport and MR CHAIRMAN: That is feeder roads to the location. I all we had in today’s business stated that in order to curb this, concerning questions. the Ministry of Agriculture, through consultations with INCREASE OF CARCASS the farming communities, has PRICES AT MAUN BMC resolved to remove or relocate Motion any facility that is not used in those locations. Now Kgosi has KGOSI RAMOKWENA indicated that he is not aware (MAUN REGION): Thank of any and we are aware of the you Mr Chairman. I would four that I have mentioned. If like to stand here and request only Kgosi could have stated the the support of this Honourable ones that he is aware of, then it House in the motion that I have would have been easier to base tabled which plays a very pivotal the response on that because now role but it is also a bitter pill we only responded to the specific to swallow. The motion reads, question that was asked and the “That this Honourable House information that we received request Government to increase from the Central Region Office. carcasses’ price at Maun BMC We were informed that out of the by at least 30 per cent.” 19 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion Mr Chairman, in Maun we have Mr Chairman, these prices are a serious problem of foot and way too low, thus the request to mouth disease and we can see that increase the prices by 30 percent. our veterinary office is trying by all means to address it, but once Mr Chairman, the price for an we get the chance to sell when average carcass is P2, 852.55. the disease is under control, we With this money, one is supposed sell at an unreasonably low price. to deduct payment for the That is why I am advocating for National Development Bank a 30 percent increase because (NDB) loan that was granted to cattle… the Batawana, deduct P350. 00 for transport and the P30.00 levy. KGOSI LOTLAMORENG Mr Chairman, after all these II: Point of clarification. Mr deductions have been done, a Chairman, if this price was to be farmer is left with only P592.55 increased, will that affect only and it is the same money that is Maun, and used to pay the Herd boys which abattoirs or all of them across the basically means the farmer is country? making a zero profit. That is why KGOSI RAMOKWENA: I am asking our Government Thank you Mr Chairman. I am to increase these prices by 30 only advocating for Maun BMC percent because then farmers in particular because the prices will be able to make a bit of for Lobatse and Francistown profit. Our Government should are high. I have here with me also take into consideration the the listed prices for Francistown fact that we have been in this and…. (Interruption). situation for a long time and one gets to wonder what justifies Mr Chairman, I wanted to these low prices because there highlight that a carcass weighing is no disease outbreak. At some 460.70kg is sold at a price of P5, point, the Francistown abattoir 989.00. When it comes to grade 1 was faced with a low supply of carcass price which is believed to cattle. They could not meet the be the best in BMC, if the weight expected total intake of cattle, is 211.30kg, it will be sold for and Government met them half P2, 852.00, but in Francistown way. I fail to understand why the grade 1 carcass is sold for P4, same could not be done with us. 220.00. The price for grade 2 It is high time Government met in Francistown is P7, 820.00. us half way in this situation.

20 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion Recently cattle were sold to are faced with a serious challenge Zimbabwe and each was sold of running their businesses at at the rate of P8.00, but before a loss. I know that the Minister then transport was free of of Agriculture once said that charge, all farmers would do the BMC meat is low quality. I was to transport their cattle to did not quite understand what the center where they would be that meant because I always see sold in Zimbabwe. Nowadays, healthy looking cattle being sold transport is charged from at BMC. So I fail to understand P350.00, P380.00 up to P400.00, how the meat could be of low farmers transport their cattle to quality. Makalamabedi where they are sold at the rate P8.00. There is no Last but not least, Mr Chairman consideration that some farmers the reason why we are lamenting travel longer distances incurring this much is because there was a lot of costs, at least the rate once an open market opportunity should be increased from P8.00 in Angola for us and it promised to P8.50. lucrative prices that ranged from P6, 800.00 to P9, 000.00 per Mr Chairman, I do not wish to beast. We were not aware of be long on this motion because what transpired thereafter until it is straight forward. Maybe that last week at our briefings our Government should even when Dr Modise informed us go an extra mile to increase the that Angola decided to withdraw proposed 30 percent to 80 percent its decision. just as a way of appreciating what farmers go through. The most painful thing is that In Maun, we have different types our Government has held talks of farmers. Some use shared with Angola and it was even open pastures while others use publicized in the newspapers that farms which still have to be paid. meat shall be exported to Angola They need a lot of money to run including live cattle. I thank you. the farms. If a farmer is to sell 100 herds of cattle, they would MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi sell them at a total price of P280, Ramokwena has tabled his 000.00, which means they would motion before this Honourable have sold them at P2, 800.00 House and now the floor is open each even though they were full for Honourable Members to sized. The farmers in Ngamiland debate it. 21 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion KGOSI BOIDITSWE terms refers to the remains of a (SEROWE REGION): Thank dead animal, that is to say meat you Mr Chairman. This is a of an animal that has been found very short motion and there dead. Therefore this should be is really no need to prolong corrected because meat is not it. Nevertheless, I stand to carcass. I am of the opinion that support it because Batawana’s legally, this word should fall off grievances need to be looked into because when selling livestock to and strategies should be devised BMC, it is not the same as selling to bring a solution. Even though carcass as terminology imply. If we are not in areas that are struck this word continues to be used, by foot and mouth, this affects then it means the rest of other us too because ‘injury to one parts like liver, kidneys, skin, is injury to all’. I do agree that hooves, and head are excluded. there should be an increase of 30 per cent so that they may be I believe this motion is perfect able to sell to other abattoirs. We and it should be treated with have a challenge of economic the highest level of seriousness. crunch and on the other side It should not be treated like a tariffs for water continue to Kgotla meeting. It should be as increase, therefore cattle prices concise as possible. With those should not be left out, they too few words Mr Chairman, I should be increased. When there support the motion. I thank you. is an economic crunch, what KGOSI MACHILIDZA happens to livestock market? It (BOTETI REGION): Thank seems there is a misconception you Mr Chairman. I too will be that the economic recession as brief as possible. I stand here automatically affects the beef to support the motion. Firstly, market, but that should not be we have to look at the number of the case, instead, the market cattle in Ngamiland and what it should go up. When buying meat signifies to the economy of this in meat outlets, the prices are country. We should be thoughtful way too high just because there and accommodative when the is recession. The prices have mover of the motion proposes that drastically gone up. prices should increase because Mr Chairman, there is a term we also have to bear in mind that is being used at Botswana that things have changed. This Meat Commission (BMC); morning, the Minister of Finance ‘carcass’. This word in general and Development Planning 22 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion highlighted on the increase of 12 its residents. We are currently per cent Value Added Tax (VAT) faced with the issue of economic and 7 per cent increase of levy. recession, if they do not receive All these grossly affect those any assistance, they will never whose prices are stagnant, and get out of that situation. these are some of the key factors that need to be seriously taken Farmers continue to plough into consideration because they despite the fact that there are no impact very much on people’s rains, this means they are running livelihoods. Our Government at a loss. If funds permit, money has urged Batswana to seriously should be injected to areas like consider venturing into farming these to boost the economy of and as the Honourable Minister the country. has indicated, programs like LIMID are there to assist Part of the funds that were Batswana to start their own allocated to farming should be businesses. Livestock ownership diverted to livestock because is one of the things that assist cattle bring more profit than in poverty eradication. The ploughing. Honourable Minister, most disturbing thing is that a lot of Batswana are sceptical Botswana has not been affected about livestock rearing due to the by this economic recession but farming methods in this country. our beef market has not been We commonly use free range affected. Government should farming, but I suggest that Maun assist farmers when it comes to area should be zoned so that this issue because it is their main there can be controlled livestock source of living. A 30 per cent movement. Cordon fences increase is not too much to ask should be erected so as to control for. elephants and other wild animals’ movements. Then we will be able Maun is a disaster area which to monitor the spread of foot and needs to be attended to seriously. mouth. With those few words, I They have transportation strongly believe Maun residents problems which we have just should be assisted. This area has been talking about and now there the highest population than all is this issue as well. This is a the areas in Botswana; therefore huge sign that Maun needs to be we should try by all means to attended to as quickly as possible help them to boost the economy to improve the livelihoods of of our country. I thank you.

23 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion KGOSI LEMPADI to understand why it is like (OKAVANGO REGION): that. I am not disregarding the Thank you Mr Chairman. I stand Honourable Minister’s presence here to support this motion. I to respond to this motion, want to point out that what is but they did this on purpose happening in Ngamiland is really because the responsible Minister disheartening. The Honourable feared to come and respond and Minister once highlighted in this address our grievances. Had it House that we shall be able to been the responsible Minister sell cattle to Zimbabwe at a price of Agriculture, Honourable De of P22 per kg but to our surprise, Graff, we would have laid all it was sold at P8 and mind you, the facts on the table so that we we also have to pay transport. send the message home. Perhaps We could not establish why the there is an intention to sabotage price suddenly went down and Ngamiland farming, who knows. we have not been consulted. When you look closely at these BMC paid lesser amount than prices, they look like they are that of Zimbabwe; it paid P5 intended to deter us from farming. while Zimbabwe offered P8, so We request that this 30 per cent when the farmers in Ngamiland be considered with immediate heard of this they then resorted to effect so that Ngamiland farmers stop selling. What is happening in could also benefit from livestock Ngamiland is very disturbing and farming. I thank you. we plead with the Government to KGOSI MONNAATHEBE stand up and intervene on this (THAMAGA REGION): issue. I once tabled a motion Thank you Mr Chairman. I stand requesting Government to extend here to support this motion. I the Kuke road by 8 km, this will be as brief as possible too. House supported the motion, but We know very well that there nothing to this date happened. is only one Constitution which Honourable Members we are has the laws that govern this faced with challenges because entire country. I am very much selling at a price of P5 per kg disturbed that Maun abattoir is is basically selling at a loss. I treated differently from others; sometimes wonder if Maun BMC there is a very huge price gap is part of the developments of between these abattoirs. If Maun this country because it receives BMC slaughters cattle, then it a different treatment from other means indeed there is nothing abattoirs in the country. I fail wrong with the cattle. I fail to 24 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion get the rationale behind the huge lot in re-stocking cattle in Maun price difference. As I conclude, after it was hit by kidney water I would like to plead with the disease, so they should now enjoy Honourable Minister to treat this the profit made. Another issue issue as a matter of urgency. As that I do not take kindly to is that a woman, she is better placed of selling cattle to Zimbabwe. when it comes to the welfare of Initially, the price was P22 per her people. Maybe it is a blessing kg but it was then changed to in disguise to have her here to P8. This is one issue that I have respond not the responsible been complaining about because Minister because she will look at now Government has engaged this issue from a different angle. companies to transport cattle I support this motion, thank you. and all the money is used to pay them. Government should now KGOSI KAHIKO III hand over the responsibility of (GANTSI WEST REGION): selling cattle to the farmers. They Thank you Mr Chairman. I should rather do it on their own support this motion. When to allow them to sell as they wish Government decided to build to make profit for themselves an abattoir in Maun, a research because everyone is aware of was conducted to establish their challenge. Mr Chairman, I its market, I therefore do not totally support this motion and think this should be a problem we should not in any way use the instabilities happening at BMC to Ngamiland farmers. If the as an excuse not to consider this burning issue here is foot and motion. I thank you. mouth, the price margin should not be that huge. This in a way KGOSI MOETI II limits Ngamiland farmers. We (SPECIALLY ELECTED): know that cattle are expensive to Thank you Mr Chairman. keep and a farmer should make Let me take this time to greet profit out of that. If there is little the Honourable Minister and profit out of that, then no one will Honourable Members. If things be able to make a living from it. were done accordingly then this Ultimately, Maun farmers will motion would have not been resort to quitting commercial tabled. I think the market forces farming because of the loss. should determine our price Government needs to be sensitive range. I also want to believe to this issue. I remember very we have price experts in BMC well that Government spent a and Agriculture who are able 25 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion to advise otherwise. I believe years ago with the suspension before the North West price of the region, EU export status range was agreed on, a serious and the closure of the Maun research should have been done Abattoir. For many years farmers to determine the general price have virtually made no better that could be charged. In that profits when selling their cattle”. way, we would have been in a It goes on to say, “Ngamiland better position to appreciate why farmers are to be paid lower that amount was charged. Even prices for their cattle compared if we were to engage expertise to cattle sold in Francistown from outside, they would not fall and Lobatse because beef from within this current rate looking the Maun Abattoir is of a lower at the fact that farmers would be quality. Due to frequent Foot selling to Government. I think it is and Mouth Disease outbreaks, high time Government admitted beef from Veterinary Zone 2 that she has disadvantaged her (Ngamiland) is currently used people. We should rather adopt only for domestic consumption, standards that will earn us profit. a factor which limits the market I thank you. for the beef. Ngamiland farmers are to be paid lower prices for KGOSI POTSOENG (NGAMI their cattle compared to cattle REGION): Thank you Mr sold in Francistown and Lobatse Chairman. This issue is really a because beef from the Maun problem in Ngamiland. My view Abattoir is of lower quality”. is that Government should have Thank you. the same prices that cut across the board. Through you permission MR CHAIRMAN: Sorry Mr Chairman, I would like Kgosi, state the source of your to read a statement that was quotation. made by one of the Honourable KGOSI POTSOENG: I should Ministers. It reads thus; “Cattle state the source? It was made by production continues to remain the Assistant Minister in a Kgotla an important factor in the rural meeting. economy as a source of income, employment, and investment MR CHAIRMAN: Which opportunities. Ngamiland Minister? farmers are faced with challenges which impact on their economic KGOSI POTSOENG: lives, the problems began many Honourable Molebatsi, you 26 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion can confirm it in Gazette. He prices are determined by a certain was addressing the residents board that has been delegated by of Ngamiland. I am almost Government. I am of the view convinced that Maun is not part that prices for cattle should be the of the developments that are same across the country while at carried out in this country. Just the same time I appreciate and to cite an example, in Maun understand where the mover of abattoir, a condemned carcass the motion is coming from with is sold at a price of P150, while the request to increase by 30 at the same time a farmer incurs per cent. Maybe that will be our costs of transporting those cattle point of breakthrough. I thank at a cost of P350. Now the you Mr Chairman. question is, is this not running a business at a loss? KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH EAST REGION): Thank you Another Grade 4 price is P7, Mr Chairman. I have understood Grade 3 is P8.50 and our highest the mover of the motion very price is for prime which is P20 well and even their challenges. whereas prime price at Lobatse He has stated that the livelihood and Francistown abattoir is P26 of those who depend on cattle has per kg. Honourable Members, deteriorated. I want to believe all these factors seriously that BMC is a business entity disadvantage us. With these few whose prices are controlled by words, I support the motion. I the different market forces. would like to ask the Honourable Minister present here to plead on Firstly, I do not have a problem our behalf to our Government, increasing the prices, it is if there is a certain board that acceptable, but I have a bit of a is responsible for the pricing problem with what is happening other than Government; then in Maun. I think it is high time Government needs to have an Government sits down with input on the decision. I am saying Maun residents to resolve this this because it does not really conflict between livestock and make sense to be paid P150 tourism because the way I see for a condemned carcass while it, this issue is beyond BMC. It transport charge is P350-P400, has been revealed that tourism it leaves a farmer with nothing contributes 12 per cent of the but serious debt. We request GDP and if we were to look at Government to support us on the contribution of agriculture, this because rumor has it that the one would assume that it is not 27 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion doing well. This is so because saying there is a discrimination there is a foul play in agriculture, against Maun residents. Even but once everything is in place, it though there is nothing that we will be the best sector. can actually do to remedy the situation, all we can do for now I support the motion even is to offer our support towards though BMC sells the meat to this motion so that it is passed. In the local market because it is a fact, there should be a standard red zone, but Government will price for those who sell at BMC. have to subsidize that market. I do not wish to be long because Government should assign a Honourable Members have said delegation to investigate exactly what is happening in Ngamiland. it better. The prices should be It will be profitable to identify a the same, only the weight of market that will specifically be the carcass will bring about the for Ngamiland because as long difference in prices. I thank you as some still perceive this issue Mr Chairman. as Government’s intention to exterminate cattle in Ngamiland MR CHAIRMAN: I believe that and replace it with tourism, the we have done this motion justice; problems will continue to be we shall now give the floor to the there. Many people in that region Honourable Minister to respond. have that perception. I support ACTING MINISTER OF this motion but being cognizant AGRICULTURE (HON of the fact that BMC is a business TSHIRELETSO): Thank you entity and maybe it will not be Mr Chairman and Honourable possible to consider this 30 per Members for their contribution cent increment because it also on this motion. I think Kgosi has to make profit out of it. Now Potsoeng has quoted something I am advocating for Government that is more similar to my to absorb this 30 per cent as a response. Without any further subsidy. I thank you. ado, I would like to read the KGOSI SINVULA response from the Ministry (SPECIALLY ELECTED): of Agriculture because I had Thank you Mr Chairman. I thought the motion would be stand here to support this motion amended as some Members because this issue affects us all touched on the issue of subsidy. even if you are not a resident of Nevertheless, I cannot touch on this region. One might end up it because it is not included in the

28 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion motion. Now since the motion marketability. Commensurate remains, I will read the response increase in the price of meat in as it is. the local retail market has to Acts of other abattoirs are set on occur before an upward price the basis of the market in which review can be considered. That the produced meat products are is all I can say about Maun sold. Currently meat products BMC. One other issue that was in the Maun BMC are cooked mentioned was that of subsidy. and then sent to the cannery in Had the motion been amended, Lobatse. The cooking that is done I would have gone back to the drastically reduces the value of Minister to update him about the the carcass and more importantly amendment. The challenge is the canned products are sold at that the motion was debated as is. much lower prices than fresh On the other hand, I am pleased meat. Until we find market where that Maun residents have already we could sell fresh meat products heard about the explanation from Ngamiland District, Maun behind the low prices. I want BMC will struggle with losses. to point out that Botswana We are referring to Maun Government is for everyone BMC as Kgosi Masunga has including Maun residents. That indicated. To this end therefore, is all I can say Mr Chairman the focus of the Government and the status quo shall remain and BMC is to find markets because the situation is still to sell Maun BMC fresh meat under observation. I thank you. products and or sell cattle off the hoof. We are optimistic that the KGOSI RAMOKWENA current arrangement with CSC (MAUN REGION): Thank you Zimbabwe will alleviate some of Mr Chairman and Honourable those problems. Mr Chairman, Members who have supported carcass prices are determined me on this motion. I am shocked by the fresh meat prices in the by a statement that instead of market. For carcasses that can debating the motion as it is, we only be sold P15 per kilogram should have amended it with in Maun and only as boneless the word that was mentioned by meat in the rest of the country, one Honourable Member about it will be hard for BMC to subsidy. Now my question is, is increase prices without incurring it not possible for Government to a heavy financial loss; in short correct that and work the answer beef produced in Maun has low around that suggestion?

29 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion HONOURABLE response that I have. Those were TSHIRELETSO: On a point just ideas from other Members of clarification. Honourable and they were not wrong to Members we have to bear in mind do that because you are free to that we are governed by Rules voice out your idea concerning of Procedure, this is applicable the motion on the floor. I can even in Parliament and Council respond accordingly only if there sittings, we do not speak anyhow. was an amendment to the motion If at all this Honourable House because the procedure is that we wished to amend this motion, should amend. Thank you very they can do that, but I cannot much. stand up here and respond to a comment that was made on the KGOSI RAMOKWENA: floor and base my response on Thank you Honourable Minister. that. I only respond to what the Even though there is a procedure motion is seeking. The House that ought to be followed, we also was supporting the tabled motion have to bear in mind that we are and I have responded to what the Batswana. There is a Setswana motion is seeking on behalf of saying that ‘ngwana-a- koma the Ministry of Agriculture or o utlwa koma ka molodi,’ the Government. I do not have the Honourable Minister has clearly power to base my response only understood our grievances. I on one comment that was made thought she will in her power by one Honourable Member. I correct us and respond on the just wanted to clarify that to the amended motion. Honourable mover of the motion that we are guided by Rules of With those few words, I would Procedure of this House. like to thank you Honourable Members for your support and would also like to thank the I have noted the comments Honourable Minister for her that were made by Honourable response. I believe she has noted Members on the suggestions our grievances and will take they made on the motion, but because the House did not them up with the Minister for move accordingly to bring an consideration. We know that amendment to the tabled motion even when we ask for daily bread basing on those suggestions, I from God, He never sent us back cannot regard them as authentic to ask for specific food because such that they will change the He knows ours needs and…

30 Monday 24th June, 2013 INCREASE OF CARCASS PRICES AT MAUN BMC - Motion MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi REVIEWING THE Ramokwena, please be conscious COMPOSITION OF THE of time. REGIONAL ELECTORAL COLLEGE KGOSI RAMOKWENA: Thank you Mr Chairman and Motion Honourable Minister. MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi MR CHAIRMAN: Let us Seeletso is not with us because conclude on this motion as time of health reasons. That means it is not on our side. Those who are is deferred. of the opinion say ‘aye’ and on the contrary ‘no’. The ayes have Motion Deferred. it. Thank you. ENACTMENT OF A LAW Question put and agreed to. THAT REGULATES MR CHAIRMAN: It is already RELIGION IN BOTSWANA time for lunch; we shall suspend Motion the proceedings for lunch and will continue thereafter. MR CHAIRMAN: It looks like PROCEEDINGS the responsible Minister for this SUSPENDED FOR LUNCH one is also absent. INTRODUCTION OF TAX KGOSI LOTLAMORENG LEVY TO THE CASINO II (BAROLONG): Thank CONTROL BOARD you Mr Chairman. I shall defer this motion to a later date Mr Motion Chairman. Thank you Mr KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH Chaiman. EAST REGION): Thank you Mr Chairman. The responsible Motion Deferred. Minister is not present; I shall therefore defer this motion to MR CHAIRMAN: All the later date Mr Chairman. motions that were left for today shall be deferred because the MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you responsible Ministers are absent, Kgosi Masunga. That means the that means we are done with motion is deferred. today’s business.

Motion Deferred. ADJOURNMENT 31 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS The House adjourned at 2.24 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL p.m. until Tuesday 25th June, ANSWERS 2013 at 9.30 a.m. WEIGH BRIDGES IN THE Tuesday 25th June, 2013 COUNTRY

THE HOUSE met at 9.30 a.m. KGOSI K. BOIDITSWE (SEROWE REGION): To ask (THE CHAIRMAN in the the Minister of Transport and Chair) Communications to state:-

P R A Y E R S (i) the total number of weigh * * * * bridges in the country; and

MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI (ii) how much was accrued GABORONE): Good morning from all these weigh Honourable Members. Good bridges in the past year morning Honourable Batshu and as well as the profits and welcome to this House. Before losses. we start, let me ask Honourable Question- Deferred Batshu if he is representing the Minister of Transport and PROVISION OF SERVICES Communications. AT SOME POST OFFICES MINISTER OF LABOUR KGOSI M. KAHIKO III AND HOME AFFAIRS (GHANZI WEST): To ask (HON. BATSHU): I am not the Minister of Transport and representing him Mr Chairman, I Communications why some was also looking for him so that services like car registration are he can assist me. Thank you Mr still not provided at the Ncojane, Chairman. Charleshill and Kalkfontein Post MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you Offices as he promised. Honourable Minister. With that I Question- Deferred would request that any business for the Ministry of Transport and ESTABLISHING Communications be deferred due EXAMINERS’ OFFICE IN to the absence of the Minister of KANYE Transport and communications who is said to be out of the KGOSI K. TELEKELO country as we speak. (KANYE REGION): To

32 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS ask the Minister of Transport (ii) if he will consider and Communications if he increasing the number of will consider establishing an petrol tanks. Examiners’ office in Kanye for Question- Deferred vehicles which are involved in accidents. DEVELOPMENT OF CENTRAL TRANSPORT Question- Deferred ORGANIZATION OFFICE IN MIDDLEPITS UPGRADING DIRECT ROAD BETWEEN KGOSI D.S. TOTO II AND HUKUNTSI (KGALAGADI SOUTH REGION): To ask the KGOSI D.S. TOTO II Minister of Transport and (KGALAGADI SOUTH Communications when the piece REGION): To ask the Minister of of land allocated to the Central Transport and Communications Transport Organization (CTO) in to explain when he intends to Middlepits will be developed. upgrade the direct road which is a short cut between Tsabong Question- Deferred and Hukuntsi as it has been in LONG HAUL TRUCKS existence before independence. KGOSI K. BOIDITSWE Question- Deferred (SEROWE REGION): To ask the Minister of Transport and CENTRAL TRANSPORT Communications:- ORGANIZATION WORKSHOP IN PALAPYE (i) to state how the ratio of foreign long haul trucks KGOSI K. BOIDITSWE compares to the local long (SEROWE REGION): To ask haul trucks; the Minister of Transport and (ii) when the standard load Communications:- weight was last reviewed in (i) if he does not deem it order to be in line with the necessary to establish current economic status; a Central Transport and Organization (CTO) (iii) further state how those workshop in Palapye as trucks have affected the the number of Government wear and tear of our vehicles has increased; and highways. 33 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS Question- Deferred (ii) whether the money goes to the Central Transport CONTRIBUTION OF THE Organization account TRANSPORT INDUSTRY TO (CTO); and THE ECONOMY (iii) how these vehicles KGOSI T. M. MASUNGA are replaced to the (NORTH EAST DISTRICT): Departments at which they To ask the Minister of Transport were boarded. and Communications to explain how much in percentage terms Question- Deferred the transportation industry or hub contribute to the economy of BATSWANA VISITING Botswana and further explain the NIGERIA value in monetary terms. KGOSI T. M. MASUNGA Question- Deferred (NORTH EAST DISTRICT): TARRING OF ROADS IN To ask the Minister of Transport SOME VILLAGES and Communications to state:- KGOSI A. O. (i) the total number of MONNAATHEBE Batswana who have (THAMAGA REGION): To applied for visa to Nigeria ask the Minister of Transport in the last five years; and and Communications when Molepolole, Lesilakgokong, (ii) whether he will consider Kubung and Thamaga road will setting up a direct flight be tarred. to Lagos from Botswana instead of the cumbersome Question- Deferred route via Kenya or South Africa. VEHICLE AUCTION IN 2012 Question- Deferred KGOSI K. BOIDITSWE (SEROWE REGION): To ask CONDITIONS OF SERVICE the Minister of Transport and FOR SOME OF BOTSWANA Communications to explain:- RAILWAYS STATION STAFF

(i) how many Government KGOSI K. BOIDITSWE vehicles were auctioned in (SEROWE REGION): To ask 2012 and how much was the Minister of Transport and raised in that process; Communications:- 34 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion (i) if he will consider regulates religion as the Societies providing train drivers with Act does not adequately address ear muffs for protection issues of religion. Societies Act, against the train engine Cap 18:01 governs all societies noise; and including churches. My request is that the religion should not be (ii) the Minister should further regulated by this Act, a different explain why the position of Train Guard was removed law should be enacted which will from the Botswana regulate religion looking at how Railways structure. churches are mushrooming in Botswana. Question- Deferred A motion was tabled before MR CHAIRMAN: All the this House, requesting that questions were to be responded registration of churches should be to. halted, the concern was brought ENACTMENT OF A LAW about by the mushrooming of THAT REGULATES churches. Action was never RELIGION IN BOTSWANA taken because the Societies Act does not give the Minister the Motion powers to stop the registration. Mr Chairman, I am not against KGOSI LOTLAMORENG II the existence of churches. People (BAROLONG): Thank you Mr should be free to practice their Chairman. I would like to table religion and worship peacefully, this motion before the House, however, my main concern is “That this Honourable House the way churches or religions requests Government to enact a are mushrooming. I am only law that regulates religion, as the requesting that we should enact Societies Act does not adequately laws which will make it easy for address issues of religion.” us to control the situation. The MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you problem that we have currently Kgosi Lotlamoreng. is that churches are registered under Societies Act which says KGOSI LOTLAMORENG II: for a church to register there has Mr Chairman, I request Members to be ten members. The reason of this House to support the why we have so many churches motion that I have tabled. Let is because the number required the Government enact a law that to register a church is very low. 35 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion This is why when there are has acquired sums of money divisions or misunderstandings from neighbouring countries. within a church, few members Even though every person is leave and form their own free to fellowship anywhere, a church. It is not just about law would assist in governing mushrooming of churches and and seeing to it that procedure the number of people required to is followed regarding foreign register a church; it is also about pastors. It has been said that at a where and how these churches crusade, a pastor once requested convene. Just recently, we raised those who needed prayer to pop a concern that after registering out around P1000 to P1600. I do these churches, the Registrar of not understand how a prayer can Societies does not follow up on be sold. Mr Chairman, we need where those churches fellowship. to protect Batswana from being The Registrar of Societies cheated by these false prophets. should establish whether the Thank you Mr Chairman. churches have structures where they worship and facilities MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi Moeti such as toilets. Some churches has his hand up, do you want to fellowship in homes, though ask something Kgosi? people can pray at home, KGOSI MOETI II: May the facilities like toilets, buildings mover of the motion give us and water would not be enough the source where he got the for the whole congregation. This allegations that pastors asked for puts their lives at risk. money before praying for people so that we also confirm if it is Mr Chairman, some churches true. fellowship in the bush where there are no facilities. Some KGOSI LOTLAMORENG baptize in unsafe places where II: Mr Chairman, the Rules of people have lost their lives Procedure for this House do not already. The law should therefore allow us to disclose the names of compel them to use safer places people who are not in this House. for baptism. Mr Chairman, there are foreign pastors who come The sources are the people who here to cheat Batswana. I am attended the crusade. I therefore not against foreign pastors but request the House to support we should be careful. I am not this motion. Thank you Mr aware of any local pastor who Chairman.

36 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion MR CHAIRMAN: I believe that which keep mushrooming. We Members have been following are not against praying like the Kgosi Lotlamoreng when he mover of the motion rightly moved his motion, requesting the said but the churches end up Government to enact a law which confusing people on how and regulates religion in Botswana. I whom to worship. It is a clear would like to give Honourable indication that this is business Members the floor to debate. centred and we would not be fair if we let this business KGOSI LEMPADI transaction run in the name of (OKAVANGO REGION): God. We would be condoning Thank you Mr Chairman. I crime in a way. This motion stand to support the motion. This should pass so that religion can issue causes a lot of concern, be regulated through that Act. in alone, there are 68 When registering a church, there church establishments. Some should be a certificate to prove of those churches do not have that a place has been secured proper structures for worship, for that purpose. Thank you Mr they use residential places or Chairman. even shacks. At one point we called church representatives to KGOSI MACHILIDZA the Kgotla because they were (BOTETI REGION): Thank being noisy especially during you Mr Chairman. Let me also their all night prayer sessions. thank the mover of the motion. The mover is not against worship This issue cuts across the whole but he is advising that we should country. I am of the view that be careful with some churches. there should be a law which We know that the Constitution regulates religion in Botswana says there should be freedom and maybe the situation would of association. However, the be better. Before a society can Minister should advise these be registered, there is an enquiry churches to use schools and to establish if there is a place to community halls where there are operate from but to my surprise, facilities such as water and toilets this does not apply to churches. in order to arrest the health hazard They fellowship anywhere, posed by worshiping in the bush. disturbing other community We should however, consider members as well as students. The that in most cases churches reason why students fail at a high split because of the leadership rate is because of these churches style. We could compare this to 37 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion political situation. Politicians when we are faced with natural defect and form their own disasters. The church provides political movements, the same spiritual guidance and assists goes for the church. As we enact with changing attitudes. Let us these laws, we should be mindful consider all these as we debate that the Constitution covers Mr Chairman and not only everyone; it says they should focus on the negative side of the be free to fellowship wherever churches. they want. Mr Chairman, in most MR CHAIRMAN: Let us cases when Bishop or leader of switch off whatever is ringing in a church passes on, a problem the House, it is not procedural. arises on who should succeed him. The church constitution KGOSI MACHILIDZA: should cover the succession Thank you Mr Chairman. It plan to avoid qualms between is upon us as the leadership members. If there is no such to manage the situation. This arrangement then we will always motion is okay. It calls for have churches breaking up. Mr procedures to be looked into Chairman, I believe that the and corrected especially when Ministry should know the annual we talk about the environment. financial church returns. If I am The Minister should treat this not mistaken, there is some form matter as urgent. We always see of payment that should be made movable toilets during various to the office. functions, churches could hire It is true that money is raised them. When our cattle feed from in the church, Mr Chairman. this contaminated environment The bible clearly says that we then it becomes a health hazard. should tithe. Kgosi Ramokwena Let us act on time on these even reminded me that farmers procedures so that we educate do not tithe but they should. the nation. Dikgosi should be Some churches like T B Joshua given the powers to regulate Ministries assist communities. churches in their communities. We should encourage other The Constitution talks of churches to assist communities freedom of association and as well. Pastors should not gain religion and does not give Kgosi from the money collected in any power to reprimand anyone church while the community who goes out of line. We seek suffers. The church should come that Bogosi should guide the forward to assist especially churches on having a safe and

38 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion clean environment. Thank you but just sitting and chatting, he Mr Chairman. sent people like Paul to disturb them and they split thus forming KGOSI BOIDITSWE different churches. This may be (SEROWE REGION): Mr a blessing in disguise for the Chairman, we understand Kgosi churches so that they can spread Lotlamoreng’s motion. It should the gospel. Mr Chairman, things not appear like we are talking start on a positive note but we about a particular church. We are the ones who spoil them. are all aware that in the past, The mover of the motion is the Pentecostal churches were concerned about the confusion considered arrogant because in his region. Some people have unlike the mainline churches, since asked if Botswana is the they had more youth. That only country which has sinners brought rivalry between these because all prophets come to this two churches. There is no church country claiming to have been which is regarded as a “foreign” sent by God but on the contrary church, otherwise they could all there are no Batswana pastors bear foreign names whilst those who go out to other countries to regarded as Setswana ones would preach there for financial gains. bear Setswana names. It is not Honourable Members, those easy for a church to be allocated pastors are aware that they will a plot, because they have to pay a benefit something at the end of higher price for an industrial plot the day, as the Setswana saying yet churches do not generate any goes, “tsie e fofa ka moswang”. money. The mover of the motion is not anti-Christ. I think he is a The motion is good and it member of Anglican or Roman may rectify some things Mr Catholic Church. Chairman. However, there has to be a Minister of Religion who HONOURABLE MEMBER: will address issues of religion. If He is a Catholic! there are defections within the church then the Minister will KGOSI BOIDITSWE: He is be better placed to resolve those a member of Roman Catholic. matters. This does not mean that he will favour his church when we It has been said in the Bible that rectify things. I am sure that we when Jesus saw that the disciples have similar cases in our regions were not teaching the gospel where things are not in order.

39 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion We have to ensure that people Section 42 of the Public Health have a safe place for worship. Act states that it is common Mr Chairman, I do not want to nuisance for the church to gather appear like I am the only person and worship in an open space, it who knows how to debate, I will is an offence punishable by law. give other Members the chance The Act we are proposing would to debate as well. I support the ensure that these churches are motion as a move to correct what given plots for worship. I am needs to be corrected. Thank not concerned about churches which are corrupt and rip off you. the country’s economy, but I KGOSI KAHIKO III am talking about those with a (GHANZI WEST REGION): positive influence on the country. Good Morning Mr Chairman, and We have to be sure that the same thank you. I support the motion law will govern those churches tabled by Kgosi Lotlamoreng II. which swindle people of their The Constitution of Botswana money. We should support this gives every Motswana freedom motion for things to turn out of association to any religion of smoothly. their choice. The mover of the motion advocates for facilities KGOSI MOETI II in order for people to enjoy this (SPECIALLY ELECTED): freedom of worship. Churches Thank you Mr Chairman. play a significant role in our I would like this House to community; they build houses understand one thing: I think for the needy and make various Honourable Members’ debates donations. This law will give the were not in line with the motion. church the power to govern how Maybe I should read this motion they worship because currently so that you understand why I Cap 18: 01 of the societies Act said the debates were not in line is silent, it does not say anything with the presentation. “That on how to deal with those who this Honourable House requests use the church for business Government to enact a law transactions. Some Churches that regulates religion, as the violate the Public Health Act, Societies Act does not adequately Waste management Act, Land address issues of religion.” Let Boards Act, Town and Country us highlight the word “religion.” Planning Act because they do not Maybe Kgosi Lotlamoreng have proper places of worship. should have explained what he 40 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion meant by religion. Most of the religion. If we say these days Members were not talking about baptism should no longer be religion at all. They were talking done through immersion because about the church being a society, people have lost their lives the debates were based on a through that practice, then we society not religion. would be meddling with the Let me therefore try and explain religion. Therefore there is no what I understand by religion, it is how we can change religion a belief, be it Hindu, Christianity, Honourable Members. I applaud Islam, Judaism, ancestral beliefs the Government of the day for and others that I may have not coming with laws which regulate mentioned, that is religion. the church at societal level not Every religion has guidelines. I religion. I agree with Kgosi will talk about Christianity as I Lotlamoreng that the Societies understand it well. The guideline Act should be amended. The Act for this religion is written in the should have requirements like book of Revelation that whoever place of worship before a church alters the gospel will be punished. is registered. The Constitution Religion Mr Chairman, should states that every citizen has not be altered in any way. It is freedom of association and guided by its doctrines, that is religion. We cannot change why in most religions there is religion Honourable Members. some form of oppression but The debate tabled by Kgosi nothing is done about it- that Lotlamoreng and other Members is how religion is. Christianity focused more on Christianity cannot be regulated. Religion because other religions’ places of is what one believes in; it has worship are not called churches. nothing to do with having a place If I may cite an example, the of worship. The cleanliness of Islamic congregation worships the environment and the place of at a mosque, the Hindu have worship are covered by the Public their special place of worship Health Act. Religion is how the as well. If we wanted to address members relate with their God Christianity, this motion should and how they worship, that is all have clearly indicated that we are talking about Christianity and there is to religion. If we were churches. I understand that… to regulate religion, we would for example say that the 10% KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Point tithe should be cancelled. That of clarification. The mover of is how we would be regulating the motion stated that, ‘as the 41 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion Society Act does not adequately KGOSI LOTLAMORENG II: address issues of religion.’ The Mr Chairman, I did not say that mover said that the current Act we should amend the Quran or does not adequately address the Bible or any other religious religious issues; that is why he book. Let me also remind Kgosi came up with this motion. He Moeti that political parties are did not say we should attack or change religion. He did not even not regulated by the Societies mention any religion when he Act like he is suggesting. We are tabled the motion. I understood not calling for an amendment of Kgosi’s presentation. Thank you religions but to regulate them; I Mr Chairman. do not know if there is anyone who would amend the bible. KGOSI MOETI II: Thank you Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Chairman. Let me thank KGOSI MONNAATHEBE Kgosi Boiditswe for making (THAMAGA REGION): that clarification because other Thank you Mr Chairman. I Members would understand why would like to thank Kgosi for I was explaining religion. It is this motion, however, I agree prudent that the Society’s Act with Kgosi Moeti. Belief is should not be linked to religion. God’s creation. I am reminded Kgosi Lotlamoreng has clearly of the story of Jesus. One day stated that the Society’s Act does as he was preaching the word not adequately address issues of God and healing people, his of religion. What I am trying to disciples informed him that John explain is that it is not necessary the Baptist was preaching and for the Society’s Act to regulate baptizing people. He told them to religion, it should just regulate leave John alone because he was societies. The Society’s Act, also saving people. does not regulate churches only, it also regulates various societies Therefore Mr Chairman, I feel such as party societies, football that if we agree to this motion, societies. They fall under the we would be against God. Just same Act but they are different like the bible says, upon his Mr Chairman. Religion cannot coming, nations will rise against be regulated but instead religious societies can be regulated. Mr each other. I do not want to be Chairman, this motion should be against God by supporting this amended; you cannot regulate motion as he is coming soon. religion Kgosi Lotlamoreng. Another story from the Bible Thank you. says that one day Daniel was 42 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion praying and some men went been advised to stop preaching to report him to the king. They but I wanted to highlight a few asked the king to come up with things. We have the Constitution a law which prohibits praying of this Republic which gives on a certain day. Since Daniel every Motswana freedom of was committed to God and was association to any religion of always praying, they caught him their choice. There are measures praying on the prohibited day in place to reprimand those who and they caught him and took do not follow the law. Therefore, him to the king, asking that he I do not agree with the motion as should be sentenced to death… I am not aware of any possible changes that could be made to MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI the existing law. I therefore wash PUSO GABORONE): Before my hands, Mr Chairman; I do we catch anyone praying, let us not want to commit any sin. I adjourn for tea and discuss this just want to patiently wait for the issue further during tea break coming of the Lord. Thank you so that we move forward. Let us Mr Chairman. resume at 11:00. MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi has PROCEEDINGS indeed washed off his hands, SUSPENDED FOR TEA thank you Kgosi Monnaathebe. MR CHAIRMAN: Welcome KGOSI GAREBAKWENA back. As we continue debating (MOLEPOLOLE REGION): this motion, let us focus on what Thank you Mr Chairman. I was presented and desist from would like to comment on Kgosi preaching. We should focus on Lotlamoreng’s motion which how we can regulate religion reads thus, ‘that this Honourable in Botswana. I believe that we House requests Government will have time for bible sharing to enact a law that regulates outside this house, I can arrange religion, as the Societies Act for that so that we educate each does not adequately address other. Kgosi Monnaathebe was issues of religion.’ When we still on the floor debating. talk of religion, Christianity is KGOSI MONNAATHEBE: included as well as other religions Thank you Mr Chairman for mentioned by Kgosi Moeti. granting me this opportunity Botswana is predominantly a to continue debating. I have Christian country and this is why a problem because we have when we talk about regulation 43 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion of religions we react, wondering swindle money from people. It what will happen when we would not be possible to regulate regulate Christianity. I am not religion because the Holy Spirit against reprimanding those who may guide the church to do err; we have seen that happening. certain things. Satanist churches Through the Society’s Act, we are the ones which should be have seen pastors being deported regulated but we should be for committing unlawful acts. careful not to do the same to the The Constitution allows different church. When I say the church, religions in the country but we I am referring to those who have other satanic religions preach the word of God and are which do not preach the word regulated by Christ. If we do of God, they do not follow that, we would be fighting Christ any regulation, Mr Chairman. himself. We do not want to be Christian based churches fear cursed, God loves this country. God and follow the Constitution There were wars in Zimbabwe, of Botswana, there may be errors South Africa as well as most here and there but most of the parts of Southern Africa but God Christian based churches do not protected us. We have minerals while in other countries they do unruly things. are depleted; this is because of It is biblical to tithe. Pastors who God’s love towards this country. use the tithes for their personal Mr Chairman, let us not try and gain are false pastors and God change anything especially when will deal with them. We do not it comes to regulating religion. have to accuse people if we do Let us not be like the Pharisees not understand their procedures. who pretended to love God while The Christian procedure is they did not, they tried to deny that apart from tithes one may the church their right to praise also contribute some offerings. God but they failed. I would like Offerings are compared to to urge Members of this House planting a seed; the more one to support Christianity and shun plants, the more blessings they Satanism Mr Chairman. If we will receive, that is what the bible want to regulate religion, we says. Those who do not know should ensure that Christianity these things should not accuse is not included; otherwise we pastors of robbing people of their will suffer the consequences as money. I am saying this because a nation not only as Dikgosi. the mover said that some pastors One Member talked about

44 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion foreign pastors who come into Christ. Therefore if we take the this country. The Bible says motion in this sense we might a prophet is not honoured in find ourselves changing the his country, that is why most doctrine of religion. I believe of them come here to get that that the mover of the motion honour. Let us understand the can therefore amend this motion concept of Christianity before and present it in the next sitting. we take any decision to advice Alternatively, the Honourable the Government. Thank you Mr Minister could take what has Chairman. been presented and identify the problem. Botswana is a MR CHAIRMAN: Let us Christian nation. Section 3 of the move towards the conclusion of Constitution of Botswana talks this motion. I cautioned you on about freedom of worship, if we preaching and other explanations support this motion, we may find earlier on. We will allocate a that we are isolating Botswana slot for members to brief one and we will not enjoy a college another on the issues of the Bible of new ideas. We will become a next time. I request that for now nation which becomes isolated. we should focus on this motion Mr Chairman, other people think and move forward to try and that Batswana are thoughtless, conclude it. but they are not. We need public KGOSI MASUNGA education Mr Chairman, let us (NORTH EAST): Thank you educate Batswana to take care Mr Chairman. Let me thank of themselves, and let us start the mover of the motion for this at family level. Honourable bringing it to the House, let Minister, I have been talking me also thank Kgosi Moeti for about the family unit that for as making a clarification on some long as this nation will continue aspects making it easier for us to ignore the rights and privileges to debate the motion well. Kgosi of a family, we are building a pie Lotlamoreng was on the right in the sky; there is no foundation. track but all we could have done We are building a success which was to amend the motion from the is baseless because the nation beginning Mr Chairman, religion can only move forward if the is a spiritual thing. Like Kgosi family is in good health. I cannot Garebakwena stated earlier on, support the motion because of Christianity is the embodiment the way it is structured. It may to all because it represents Jesus have a lot of implications for

45 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion this nation. We have pastors this gospel. In conclusion Mr coming from outside the country, Chairman, it appears there is a some of them are sent by God problem of implementation in himself to come and preach the this country. The food industry gospel here. Therefore if we shun continues to sell expired food; them we may find that we have Botswana Bureau of Standard denied even those who had the has adaptors which have a short right message for us. Even Jesus lifespan and now another burning Christ himself, settled in a place issue is churches. Most churches he was not born at; just imagine. hold their prayer sessions under This doctrine was not for us the the trees due to the delay at our gentiles. Those who shunned land boards to allocated plots. the Christianity doctrine, they were told to surrender it to The last point is that churches the gentiles, one can see that can only function if there are we managed to tap in what Ministerial Executive Fraternal was not intended for us. The Committees in place, but they Government can regulate the are not working because no one prophets who come to Botswana gives due reference to the elders through the Directorate of of the village. I want to reassure Intelligence Services (DIS) and Kgosi Lotlamoreng II that this other departments. Honourable motion is in place; it is only Batshu is here as the former derailed by the use of the word Police Commissioner, he is religion. What the Minister can better placed. We have to put do is to tour the regions and meet all systems in place, to screen with Dikgosi in every district and them. We have to follow proper let us find a way forward. The procedures when granting people Minister has to delegate some citizenship or giving them a VISA powers to Kgosi to continue to avoid having false prophets. working with the church. I had The mover of the motion is called the churches to the Kgotla right, there are churches which but some did not come because come to confuse Batswana, they they felt that I was not the person are there in the bible. The Bible who gave them a permit to be was written by the Holy Spirit a church. Kgosi Garebakwena through a person therefore we raised some real issues; Satanism can never understand some of exists, secret societies are there the things in the bible but there and the greatest target is the are men of God anointed to carry youth. Look at how our youth

46 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion in this nation are falling apart. of God but I remain grateful that Thank you Mr Chairman he also promised to set aside time for us to talk about the Bible. I KGOSI RAMOKWENA repeat that every Government (MAUN REGION): Thank represents the leadership of you Mr Chairman. We should God. If the Government does not be confused, Mr Chairman. not address the chaos brought No one is saying churches about by the church, it would be should not worship. Let us talk cursing its nation. I am glad that about religion or belief, who we are going to have such a time are the believers? Believers to explain ourselves but for now I are people, the society. The would like us to note that religion mover of the motion correctly is made up of believers. The used the word ‘religion’. It is motion seeks to address chaos like a tree which has different that is found in this country, branches. My understanding churches are mushrooming all is that this motion seeks to over the country. People fight preserve religion. We should not for money and some pastors be hesitant to talk about religion have several wives within the Mr Chairman. The Government church. I therefore agree that of the day is representing the there should be a law which leadership of God. That is why regulates these churches. Let the Government should be in a us investigate the people whom position to reprimand those who we want to engage as our are not doing the right things. If pastors and get a background the Government could just let check on them before we could every Jack and Jill to be a pastor, grant them that honour. We there will be chaos. The motion have East Corporate churches is okay to me… where the Archbishop takes the final decision without the KGOSI MASUNGA: On a involvement of the congregation. point of clarification. Kgosi These are the things which Jesus Ramokwena stated that the preached about. His disciples current Government represents had complained about people the leadership in heaven, where who worshiped in a different did he get that? Thank you. manner. Jesus told them to leave those people alone so that on KGOSI RAMOKWENA: The judgement day, the good will Chairman stated that we should be saved while the bad will be desist from preaching the word destroyed. 47 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion I think what Kgosi Lotlamoreng pastor within our society and is saying is that there should be not reprimand him? I think regulation of churches, he is not we should be in a position to against any religion and he is not recall that person and express against anyone praying. disapproval. We should be in He wants us to come up with a a position to tell those people law which will regulate these that they should not play with churches Mr Chairman so the word of God. I support this that it becomes easier for the motion Mr Chairman. Thank you Government to reprimand wrong Mr Chairman. doers. Honourable Batshu will MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable look into the issues we raised Members, I believe that we have and see how best to address debated this motion. I have come them without denying anybody to realize that in this House we the right to worship. We should have prophets and pastors who not let false prophets drag the are learned when it comes to word of God through the mud. religious matters. Let me give That is how I understand this Honourable Batshu the floor to motion. Therefore Mr Chairman, respond to the motion presented I do not want to debate for by Kgosi Lotlamoreng. long. I would like to request the Honourable Minister to have MINISTER OF LABOUR Ministerial Executive Fraternal AND HOME AFFAIRS (HON Committees regionally which BATSHU): Thank you Mr will look into the religion and Chairman. Let me also thank how the churches are registered. Honourable Members of this I was once a Chairman of the House. The Chairman has Minister’s fraternal board in interrupted a powerful sermon, Maun and we had a case where a but time has to be considered young man who was said to be a as well. Mr Chairman, let me good prophet fought with another start off by apologising for not man using a knife. He was making it on time for the House suspended from participating in yesterday, something which the church events and he formed forced the House to adjourn on his own church. Soon thereafter my account. I render my sincere he was accused of impregnating apologies. I am grateful that we three young ladies at the same debated Kgosi Lotlamoreng’s time. Should we let that person motion which reads thus, continue holding the title of a “That this Honourable House

48 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion requests Government to enact The Secretary of the office of a law that regulates religion, the Registrar of companies as the Societies Act does not has to assist the applicants adequately address issues of with guidelines prior to the religion.” When we received registration and those guidelines this motion we wondered how should be in line with the religion is going to be regulated Constitution. The vision of this but the reference to the Society’s country and even the Christianity Act assisted in the sense that we vision is to maintain peace at all were able to see that it is about times. Everything that threatens regulating religious societies. peace should be looked into. I Honourable Members, religious would like to inform this House institutions are registered and that we have realised that the regulated under the Society’s Society’s Act is not adequate Act cap 18:01. To register, they to regulate religious societies. need to have a constitution which I am talking about regulating outlines the vision and mission religious societies not religion. of that particular society. We once had a report from the joint advisory committee of When the registrar of Ntlo ya Dikgosi and Botswana companies gets the request to Council of Churches and Social register such a society, they Values. One of the proposals consider the Constitution of of this committee was that the the proposed society alongside religious societies be removed our Constitution. Our national from the Society’s Act and that a anthem states that our country is a law should be enacted which will gift from God and that we should regulate them. We considered the have freedom of association to suggestions brought before us but any religion. Everyone should we are of the view that having a ensure that we keep the peace in law which will regulate religious the country. It is commendable societies only will not work for for Members of this House to us. The existing law should be come forward with a motion amended to give the Minister the like this to address issues which power to regulate those religious would affect our peace. As the societies. We must strengthen the leadership, we should ensure Society’s Act so that we could that the future generation will have regulations specific to the also enjoy the peace and sing the administration of the religious national anthem with pride. bodies. We are already at an 49 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion advanced stage of amending has a Constitution but it should the Society’s Act and if there be equally easy to de-register are some gaps, we will come if it does not follow the right up with regulations under the procedures. It was also suggested amended Act to address them. that there should be a council of Mr Chairman, the Constitution pastors who will be advising the says there should be freedom Ministry of Labour and Home of worship. I am glad that as Affairs on issues relating to we debated the motion, none religion especially with regards of the Members called for the to the eligibility of registration of amendment of the Constitution. I churches. Mr Chairman, another also liked the fact that Members issue which cropped up was that wanted to maintain the freedom the churches which worship in of worship. Last year around open and public areas violate the august, we had a meeting with Public Health Act; therefore we different societies to look at are thankful that the new public the Societies Act. Religious health act has a clear definition societies, all the disciplinary of nuisance. That definition forces, the Directorate on is befitting and has been Intelligence and Security (DIS), strengthened and it will assist in military intelligence, financial regulating those churches which intelligence, waste management violate this part. and environment and the bye Mr Chairman, another concern law enforcement officers were which led to the amendment of present at the meeting. One of the Act is that we have many the issues which cropped up in foreign pastors coming to that meeting was that it appears Botswana and they stay for a long to be easy to register a church, time in the country. This is why looking at the number required after amending the Immigration for registration. That is why I am Act last year, all foreign pastors drafting a Bill for presentation should seek work and residence to the Parliament that a church permits. They used to be allowed needs to register only when it has to stay without work permits but 250 members, it should be clear they exploited that window, now that we are registering a church, they are regulated. The question not a family. Another thing that would be what does a person was raised as a concern was teach for 10 years? Are they that it should be made easier for teaching dull people? Societies a church to be registered if it should be regulated otherwise

50 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion they will be exploited by people cases. Kgosi has requested that from other countries. All pastors a Ministry of Religion should who come to this country are be established but we should assessed by Regional Immigrants consider the fact that we are Selection Boards. According to not similar to other countries; the Act, the person has to possess our Parliament is the only one a qualification which Batswana which has 57 constituencies and pastors do not have, they should 4 specially elected members, have a localisation plan. I am making it 61 members of glad that Honourable Members parliament. Our Constitution have raised this concern. As it says that there should be a certain is now we are at a population number of cabinet members of 2 million and so far we have so that they do not outnumber 6,603 churches, something the back benchers. That is why which raises eyebrows Mr we have 24 cabinet members; Chairman, therefore it is one of ministers and assistant ministers, the things which will be looked we cannot exceed that number. at when amending the Societies This is why we have different Act. Honourable Members, the departments within one Ministry, Constitution talks about how the for example Ministry of Labour and Home Affairs in Botswana is church should be regulated not made up of 3 different Ministries religion. . in Namibia where they have If Security department advises independent Ministries for Home us against registering a certain affairs, Ministry of Labour and church, then we will not do it. Gender affairs Ministry. We have These are some of the good to bear in mind that our economy proposals that were submitted is small. I cannot comment on at the meeting. The Societies all points made by Honourable Act states that there should be Members but I will address those financial returns from churches, which I feel are the burning therefore those who do not issues. Other churches violate abide by this provision will the Public Health Act in the have proper measures taken sense that they do not allow their against them. Last year 307 members to take their children organizations were not compliant for vaccination. We had to come and 276 of them were dissolved up with laws which compel them as by law established and only to take those children to the 12 came forward to plead their hospital. Mr Chairman, I take it 51 Tuesday 25th June, 2013 ENACTMENT OF A LAW THAT REGULATES RELIGION IN BOTSWANA - Motion that we will assist each other in Chairman, other Members have public education on such matters. been talking about freedom of I agree that the enforcement worship as provided for by the of the law is still weak, we sat Constitution, I am aware of that down with the Botswana Unified provision Mr Chairman but I Revenue Services (BURS) to did not say that we should deny find out if the pastors declare the people their right to worship. If money they make from churches, there are Members who thought why can the waste management I am against that freedom of and public health not take proper worship that is not the case. I measures against these people as have clearly indicated in my the law is in place. We have to presentation that I am aware that be united in implementing these we all have freedom of worship. laws especially that we are the Mr Chairman, I am not against ones making them. In conclusion foreign pastors who come to Mr Chairman, let me request this Botswana like other members Honourable House to allow my were saying, I am not in any way Ministry to continue with the against procedures which govern amending of the Societies Act so the church, we are not against that it addresses the inadequacies tithes in the church, but all we we have been talking about. are saying is for these aspects to When the Bill is referred to this be regulated. We are grateful that House from Parliament, we the Government is concerned as could propose regulations which well, we need to work together to will be specific to the issues of protect Batswana. concern. If religious societies are Having said that, let me thank not regulated, we may destroy all the Honourable Members the peace that we have. Thank who understood the motion as you Mr Chairman. it was presented, and those who MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you might have not understood my Honourable Minister. I will give presentation. It is not wrong to the mover of the motion the floor differ in ideas Mr Chairman; to react to the debate. it only shows that we do not comprehend issues in a similar KGOSI LOTLAMORENG manner. Let me also thank the II (BAROLONG): Thank you Minister for acknowledging Mr Chairman. Let me thank the the problem within religious Minister and some Members for societies and that there is a understanding my motion. Mr need to amend the Act. I thank

52 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS the Minister for responding in this motion. Let us go and serve such a manner and his promise with due diligence, in unity and to attend to the motion through love until we meet tomorrow. the policies and regulations within the Societies Act. Once ADJOURNMENT more, I thank all the Members The House accordingly who supported the motion and adjourned at 12:08 p.m. until even those who did not support Wednesday the 26th of June, 2013 it, I hope we are going to end at 2:30 p.m. up agreeing to the motion as the Minister has already pointed out Wednesday 26th June, 2013 that something has to be done. Thank you Mr Chairman. THE HOUSE met at 2.30 p.m.

MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you (THE CHAIRMAN in the Mr Chairman. According to the Chair) Rules of the House, I will now put the question. P R A Y E R S

Motion put and agreed to. * * * *

With that we have come to MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI the end of the business today. GABORONE): Good afternoon I have two announcements; Honourable Members and tomorrow we are meeting at Cabinet Ministers here present. 2:30 in the afternoon as we We will start today’s business all know that on Wednesdays with questions as usual. we meet in the afternoon. Another announcement is that NUMBER OF GHANZI the committee which has been FARMERS GRANTED tasked with looking at the Rules LOANS FROM CITIZEN of Procedure for this House ENTREPRENEURIAL should meet at the Chairman’s DEVELOPMENT AGENCY office tomorrow morning at 9:30 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL to finalise the report. We will not ANSWERS come back this afternoon but we had good preachers this morning KGOSI M. KAHIKO III so I would urge you to continue (GHANZI WEST): asked the serving the nation, despite the Minister of Trade and Industry to differences we might have had in apprise the House:- 53 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS (i) on the number of were from the mainline category farmers in Ghanzi West valued at P25.1 million while cattle posts who were total of 52 applications valued granted loans from at P21.5 million were under the Citizen Entrepreneurial YFF category. Development Agency; and The following are some of the (ii) how many were not reasons why the applications successful and why. were rejected;

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF 1. The farms/cattle posts being TRADE AND INDUSTRY proposed were overgrazed (HON RAKHUDU): Mr and not able to provide for Chairman, CEDA Agri-business the nutritional requirements has two products; agri-business or the promoters herd; mainline and Young Farmers Fund (YFF). The Agri-business 2. Where there was an mainline has been active since indication that the carrying CEDA inception in 2001 capacity of the pasture land whilst YFF was introduced in would be exceeded as a result 2007. Between April 2001 and of the proposed expansions to March 2013, CEDA approved farms and cattle post; 55 applications at a total of 3. Ineffective management P32 800 000 in the Ghanzi practices being proposed by regions based on the two the project sponsors in their offerings. Out of this total, 16 business plans; applications were approved under the mainline category at a 4. Failure by promoters value of P15.9 million whereas to provide collateral to 39 applications valued at P 16.9 secure the working capital million were approved under component of the loans; the YFF category between April 2007 and March 2013. Within the 5. Lack of proper understanding same time period under review, of the assumptions and 70 applications valued at P46.7 financial projections million were unsuccessful for contained in the business the Ghanzi regions based on the plan submitted. same to product offerings. Out of These are some of the reasons the 70 rejected applications, 18 why some of the applications 54 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS were rejected. I thank you Mr bring the required answer to the Chairman. House as we now understand that Kgosi Kahiko wants the statistics KGOSI KAHIKO III: I did regarding those farmers at cattle not get the response clearly. I posts and not at farms. Pardon had asked about the number me for responding in such of farmers who were allocated manner but I was guided by the grazing land at cattle-posts way it has been presented. Thank and not at farms because we you Sir. have a problem of people being allocated… MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you Honourable Minister even MR CHAIRMAN: What is your though the Order Paper talks question Kgosi Kahiko? about farmers in the Ghanzi West cattle posts. KGOSI KAHIKO III: I want the Minister to provide statistics HONOURABLE RAKHUDU: of farmers from cattle-posts just Mr Chairman, the officers who like the question seeks and not prepared this response did not those from farms. capture the question well. I have understood and therefore I render HONOURABLE RAKHUDU: my apologies in that regard. With due respect Mr Chairman, we did not get the question as the KGOSI KAHIKO III: You Honourable Member is putting are forgiven. Thank you Mr it; the question we have is for the Chairman. Ministry to apprise the House; MR CHAIRMAN: I believe (i) on the number of farmers that the Minister will provide in Ghanzi West who a relevant and satisfactory were granted loans from response to Kgosi Kahiko’s Citizen Entrepreneurial Question. Development Agency; and EFFORTS TO ERADICATE (ii) how many were not PROSOPIS PLANT IN successful and why.’ KGALAGADI

Therefore it is not clear as to KGOSI TOTO II which group of farmers Kgosi (KGALAGADI SOUTH Kahiko is referring to. Let me REGION): asked the Minister not take time but promise to of Environment, Wildlife and

55 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS Tourism to explain how the on the logistic of continuing the Government intends to assist use of chemicals in managing in eradicating the prosopis the species on a larger scale in (sexanana) plant that continues selected and defined areas. It to spread in the Kgalagadi area. should be noted that dealing with the invasive species is a very ACTING MINISTER OF sensitive exercise that requires ENVIRONMENT, WILDLIFE community commitment and AND TOURISM (HON scientific know-how. However, SIELE): Mr Chairman, my my Ministry remains hopeful Ministry has started developing that a lasting solution to the an Integrated Mesquite (Prosopis problem will be found. Thank species) management strategy you Mr Chairman. for Botswana. The Communities of BORAVAST villages of KGOSI TOTO II: Thank you Bokspit, Rapplespan, Valhoek, Mr Chairman. and Struizendam in collaboration with my Ministry have gone CONDITIONS OF WILD a step ahead and adopted the ANIMALS AT THE CHOBE strategy for their area. The DISTRICT strategy recognises the fact that KGOSI M. SINVULA communities realise benefits (CHOBE REGION): asked from the prosopis as livestock the Minister of Environment, feed and for stabilising sand. Wildlife and Tourism:- A workshop was conducted in Bokspits for the BORAVAST (i) if he is aware that the community on the 3rd to 7th June wild animals at the Chobe 2013 to develop concrete action District are dying in large for managing prosopis. It became numbers due to illness, clear that an Environmental shortage of water and poor Impact Assessment (EIA) grazing areas; and would be needed prior to a (ii) if so, what action will rigorous intervention that he take to address the may negatively affect the situation. environment. Furthermore, my Ministry is currently working ACTING MINISTER with BORAVAST community OF ENVIRONMENT, and International Union for WILDLIFE AND TOURISM Conservation and Nature (IUCN) (HON SIELE): Thank you

56 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS Mr Chairman, the Ministry (i) when he intends to increase of Environment, Wildlife and the staff at the Department Tourism is aware of mortalities of Wildlife in Masunga; that do occur sometimes in the and Chobe District, especially in (ii) if there are any plans the Chobe National Park. These to improve the welfare mortalities are mainly due to of Wildlife officers in anthrax rather than poor grazing Botswana. and water shortage. The Ministry ACTING MINISTER OF burns the carcasses of animals ENVIRONMENT, WILDLIFE that die from anthrax to eradicate AND TOURISM (HON the spores, hence reducing the SIELE): Mr Chairman, my spread of the disease. Ministry is equally concerned with the shortage of staff in the It is important to note that Department of Wildlife and anthrax spores are difficult National Parks office in Masunga. to eradicate since they can In 2010, the Department of survive in the soil for many Wildlife and National Parks years until the environmental established three (3) offices at conditions become favourable. Nata, Tutume and Masunga. Consequently mass die-offs of There are currently seven (7) officers stationed in Masunga animals are common in the dry and these officers are expected season throughout the Southern to cover the North East District. Africa Region. I thank you Mr There is currently no manpower Chairman. growth in the Public Service. KGOSI SINVULA: Thank you However, the Department has Mr Chairman. engaged special scouts during the current financial year PLANS TO IMPROVE THE 2013/2014 and also deployed wildlife volunteers from the WELFARE OF WILDLIFE Ipelegeng Programme. This OFFICERS IN BOTSWANA additional manpower will assist in law enforcement, mitigating KGOSI T. M. MASUNGA human-wildlife conflict and (NORTH EAST DISTRICT): infrastructure maintenance. asked the Minister of Environment, Wildlife and Mr Chairman, there are on-going Tourism:- plans to improve the welfare of

57 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS employees of the Department by soldiers. In less dangerous of Wildlife and National Parks. areas, Ipelegeng workers will My Ministry is finalising the be deployed. Thank you Mr implementation modalities of Chairman. the new structure and revisiting the Department’s Conditions KGOSI MASUNGA: When of Service with a view to will the department improve this boosting the morale of staff in matter? My last question is; given the organisation. I thank you Mr the fact that tourism accounts for Chairman. 12 percent in the GDP and we expect the percentage to grow, KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank will boosting staff morale assist you Mr Chairman. As wildlife the growth of tourism? Thank is a specialised area, are we not you. digging our own graves because the poachers are not just laymen, HONOURABLE SIELE: We some are former… are aware of this situation Mr Chairman. If wishes were horses, MR CHAIRMAN: Can you by the end of this financial kindly ask a supplementary year, this situation would have question Kgosi Masunga. improved. The Government is KGOSI MASUNGA: planning to review conditions Honourable Minister, will the for the entire public service, Mr Chairman. Thank you very Wildlife sector not be affected much. by the use of Ipelegeng labour and the zero growth in the public CONSTRUCTION OF service? MAGISTRATE COURT IN KANYE HONOURABLE SIELE: Thank you Mr Chairman, there KGOSI B. RAMOKONE is that possibility. In areas (KANYE REGION): asked where poachers pose a danger the Minister of Defence, Justice to the employees, then trained and Security when a Magistrate personnel who have the relevant Court will be constructed in equipment will be deployed. Kanye. In areas where these poachers ACTING MINISTER OF carry dangerous weapons, DEFENCE, JUSTICE Wildlife staff will be assisted AND SECURITY (HON 58 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS SIELE): Thank you very much basically to give dignity to the Mr Chairman. The Kanye office of the judiciary. They have Magistrate Court is planned to therefore been adopted from the be constructed during the current English common law tradition. financial year at an estimated Thank you. cost of P56.250.000 as it is the development programme of the FIXING OF TELEPHONE Judiciary for 2013/2014 financial LINE MIX UP AT MASUNGA year. Preparations are underway TRIBAL ADMINISTRATION to award the project, it was halted KGOSI T. M. MASUNGA last financial year (2012/2013) as (NORTH EAST DISTRICT): a result of the recession. Thank asked the Minister of Local you. Government and Rural SIGNIFICANCE AND Development to explain when the ORIGIN OF THE WIG Botswana Telecommunications WORN BY THE CHIEF Corporation will fix the JUSTICE telephone line mix up that is currently going on at Masunga KGOSI K. BOIDITSWE Tribal Administration. (SEROWE REGION): asked MINISTER OF LOCAL the Minister of Defence, Justice GOVERNMENT AND and Security to explain the RURAL DEVELOPMENT significance and the origin of (HON SIELE): Mr Chairman, the wig that is worn by the Chief the telephone mix up at Justice. Masunga Tribal Administration ACTING MINISTER OF was caused by digging of an DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND underground cable during the SECURITY (HON SIELE): on-going network upgrading Thank you very much Mr in Masunga village by the Chairman. The Chief Justice uses Botswana Telecommunications a wig for ceremonial purposes Corporation. This disruption during the opening of the Legal to service occurred during the Year and swearing-in of the month of May 2013 and was th President. Wigs have their origins attended to on the 4 June 2013. in England during the medieval Thank you. times and have been used in the KGOSI MASUNGA: I do not Commonwealth as part of the agree with the response, Mr common law practice/tradition Chairman. Is there any agreement 59 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS between BTC and the Ministry of Local Government and regarding the maintenance of Rural Development when the this equipment? Did the Minister Bogobogobo, Makopong and ensure that what has been agreed Werda villages will be provided upon is done? Thank you Mr with the Headman of Record to Chairman. assist the Kgosi.

HONOURABLE SIELE: Mr MINISTER OF LOCAL Chairman, like I have said, the GOVERNMENT AND telephones were not working due RURAL DEVELOPMENT to on-going network upgrading in (HONOURABLE SIELE): Masunga which was done on the th Mr Chairman, there are no 4 June , this is a straight forward plans to provide Bogobogobo, explanation. I would not argue Makopong and Werda with with Kgosi if he still maintains Headmen of Record to assist that the situation has not been Kgosi. Dikgosi at those villages attended to. I will look into the are effectively dealing with situation to find out whether the the current work load in all the report I have been given is true. three villages. The population of If it is not, I will see to it that it is Bogobogobo (360), Makopong attended to as soon as possible. (1,697) and Werda (3,261) do not Thank you. for now warrant the provision of KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank a post of Headman of Record. you Mr Chairman. Furthermore, the crime statistics for the three villages are still MR CHAIRMAN: The manageable as shown by the Honourable Minister promises to attached table which I may pass confirm the situation and Kgosi to Kgosi. should ensure that what has been MR CHAIRMAN: Pardon me provided as the response is done. Honourable Minister, can we PROVISION OF kindly switch off the cell phones HEADMAN OF RECORD Honourable Members. TO KGALAGADI SOUTH VILLAGES

KGOSI D. S. TOTO II (KGALAGADI SOUTH REGION): asked the Minister

60 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS HONOURABLE SIELE: I just said I have the statistics here; Mr Chairman maybe if you allow I could read them out or else I can pass on the statistics to Kgosi for ease of reference.

NAME OF YEAR COURT 2011 2012 Civil Criminal Civil Criminal Bogobogobo 5 5 7 4 Werda 20 25 18 32 Makopong 30 14 26 19

KGOSI SEKWENYANE: Thank you Mr Chairman. What is looked into for a person to be considered for the post of Headman of Record, is it the population or the crime statistics registered in that village? Thank you. HONOURABLE SIELE: In the current situation Mr Chairman, we consider the workload of a particular officer. Thank you Mr Chairman. KGOSI BOIDITSWE: When considering the workload , does the Minister look at the crime statistics or the fact that Kgosi and the community have managed to stabilize the crime rate? Thank you. HONOURABLE SIELE: Mr Chairman, like I said, given the shortage of resources, we have to do the best we can with the available resources. When the population of a village exceeds 500 people, the expectation is that the village deserves to have a Headman of Record. We also have to consider the relationship between that particular village and others as well as the workload. Currently we are not yet at a stage where we can assess the workload that Dikgosi could do looking at the staffing levels they have. Thank you Mr Chairman. DELAYS IN PAYING COMPENSATION FOR HOUSES AFFECTED BY CONSTRUCTION IN MASUNGA

KGOSI T. M. MASUNGA (NORTH EAST REGION): asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to state:-

(i) the cause of the delay in paying compensation for houses that were affected by the construction of the Masunga internal roads which were completed in 2011; and

61 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS (ii) the bank which issued by this time? The last question is the bond that ultimately that, can you produce proof that ushered the signing of the the bond has indeed been issued contract between North by Stanbic Bank? Thank you East District Council and Estate Construction HONOURABLE SIELE: Company. Mr Chairman, I have already stated that there was a delay in MINISTER OF LOCAL compensating those who were GOVERNMENT AND affected by the infrastructure RURAL DEVELOPMENT development. When there (HON SIELE): It is indeed true is a project in the village, that there have been delays by establishing the level of damage the contractor in compensating caused by the construction on people who were affected by its own takes time as it involves the Masunga infrastructure the community itself and the fact development. The North East that proper assessment has to be District Council has been in discussions with the contractor done is time consuming. I am not and has instructed the latter to in a position to say I can prove speed up compensation matters that Stanbic bank had issued a by the end of August, 2013. bond or not but the information I A total of 229 people were have is that that Stanbic Bank has assessed, out of which 73 have issued that bond unless it could been compensated. Furthermore, P200, 000.00 has been set aside be proven otherwise. Thank you, from the project budget by Mr Chairman. Council to pay any outstanding KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank compensation that may arise you Mr Chairman. I request that after assessment. Stanbic Bank in future the Minister should Botswana issued a bond to the confirm if the said bank has contractor. I thank you, Mr indeed issued that bond or not. Chairman. Thank you Mr Chairman. KGOSI MASUNGA: Don’t you think it has taken a long time to MR CHAIRMAN: I believe compensate the affected people that the Minister understands as they had anticipated that they what Kgosi is talking about, but would have been compensated this issue can be taken outside 62 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS the House by both the Minister provision for any new and Kgosi so that the record developments at the Kgotla could be set straight. during NDP10 due to budgetary constraints. PROVISION OF OFFICES AND OFFICE EQUIPMENTS (ii) My Ministry will consider AT TSABONG MAIN the provision of vehicles, KGOTLA fax and photocopying machines in future KGOSI D. S. TOTO II alongside other pressing (KGALAGADI SOUTH needs. Meanwhile, the REGION): asked the Minister main Kgotla is currently of Local Government and Rural serviced by the officer Development to update the of the tribal Secretary in House on when the Government Tsabong based at Rural intends to:- Administration Centre. (i) provide more offices, (iii) There are no plans to conference room, sizeable employ Moemela Kgosi storerooms and public as the current Kgosi and toilets at the Tsabong main Headman of Record are Kgotla; effectively dealing with the work load as shown by the (ii) provide equipment such as attached table. vehicles, computers, fax machine and photocopying TSABONG MAIN KGOTLA machine; and WORKLOAD

(iii) employ the Moemela 2010/2011 Financial Year Kgosi as well as the second Headman of Record. Civil Criminal Pending Cases Cases MINISTER OF LOCAL 120 172 66 GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT 2011/2012 Financial Year (HON SIELE): Mr Chairman, Civil Criminal Pending (i) While my Ministry Cases Cases appreciates the need for 112 126 69 expansion of Tsabong Kgotla, there is no KGOSI MACHILIDZA:

63 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS Thank you Mr Chairman. How are still under the economic come the structure for these downturn. All the assessment four Regions; Chobe, Ghanzi, and measurements were Masunga and Tsabong differs made but when checking the from others in Botswana? Other Government coffers, the funds regions have Senior Chief, Chief were not enough to allow for the Representative and Headman extension of the offices. Thank of Record. Thank you Mr Chairman. you Mr Chairman. KGOSI TOTO II: How come HONOURABLE SIELE: Hukuntsi has Moemela Kgosi Mr Chairman, thank you very while Tsabong does not have Mr much. Kgosi is putting me in a Chairman? tight corner. The origins of these regions are such that we are not HONOURABLE SIELE: This certain about its Chieftainship matter is in Kgosi’s region- even to date. For example in Kgalagadi South. Maybe we Kgalagadi, we have Kgalagadi could sit down with Kgosi and North Region and Kgalagadi talk this through because it South Region; who do we would not be fair for the House appoint as Kgosi there? The and Kgosi to discuss this matter answer to that question is that we here. Thank you Mr Chairman. will sit down and look at origins INTRODUCTION OF A of Bogosi in that region or that GENERAL FUND FOR THE area. Thank you Mr Chairman. DEPARTMENT OF TRIBAL ADMINISTRATION MR CHAIRMAN: Let me remind the Member that the KGOSI T. M. MASUNGA question here is about the (NORTH EAST DISTRICT): Tsabong Main Kgotla. asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural KGOSI TOTO II: How far are Development when he will set up the plans to expand Tsabong a general fund for the Department Kgotla offices? We have since of Tribal Administration as is the seen people coming in to measure case with the Councils and the for that expansion but we do not Land Board. know what happened thereafter. MINISTER OF LOCAL HONOURABLE SIELE: GOVERNMENT AND Thank you Mr Chairman. We RURAL DEVELOPMENT

64 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS (HON SIELE): Mr Chairman, situation and we are trying by my Ministry has no plans all means to push for availability to set up a general fund for of resources which will allow the Department of Tribal Dikgosi to work in a conducive Administration as its financial environment. Thank you Mr operations are controlled by Chairman. Central Government whilst Councils and Land Boards are KGOSI MASUNGA: My last body corporates with a different question Mr Chairman, since mandate from that of Tribal the Minister has received the Administration. Furthermore, Mr question together with the answer Chairman, Tribal Administration forwarded to him; so far what Department, like all other has the Minister done to address Government departments, is the current problem. Thank you. obliged to return all unspent funds HONOURABLE SIELE: at the end of each financial year Resources permitting Mr to the Ministry whilst Councils Chairman, I will try harder and Land Boards are allowed to for Tribal Administration to transfer their unspent funds to have resources which will their general funds in accordance enable Dikgosi to do their with the Local Government Act, work diligently. Thank you Mr 2012. I thank you, Mr Chairman. Chairman. KGOSI MASUNGA: Are the CONNECTION OF demands from the Department TELEPHONE LINES IN of Tribal Administration not KGALAGADI SOUTH too huge to be satisfied by VILLAGES the assistance from Central Government? Thank you. KGOSI D. S. TOTO II HONOURABLE SIELE: Mr (KGALAGADI SOUTH Chairman, I am responding to REGION): asked the Minister the question based on the current of Local Government and Rural situation. Councils are body Development to explain when corporates established by an Act the Tribal Administration offices of Parliament. There has been in the Middlepits catchment area shortage of resources dating from of Kolonkwaneng, Bogobogobo, far back at Tribal Administration Middlepits, Khuis, Khawa, like it has already been said. Gakhibana, Rapplespan, We are however aware of this Vaalhoek, Bokspits and

65 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 SWEARING IN OF DIKGOSI BEFORE ASSUMPTION OF DUTY - Motion Struizendam will be connected you Mr Chairman. Honourable with telephones as they are the Ministers here present and only Government offices without Members of this House, I telephones in the area. need Members’ support on this motion. Dikgosi should be MINISTER OF LOCAL sworn in before assumption of GOVERNMENT AND duty. Bogosi is a complex job, RURAL DEVELOPMENT closer to God’s heart, one would (HON SIELE): Mr Chairman, say. Therefore swearing in … the Tribal Administration offices (interruptions)… I am saying in the Middlepits catchment area that, because even the Bible of Kolonkwaneng, Bogobogobo, states that Dikgosi should be Middlepits, Khuis, Khawa, respected. Gakhibana, Rapplespan, Vaalhoek, Bokspits and MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi Struizendam will be connected Boiditswe, I do not know whom with telephones during the you are addressing because I am second quarter of the 2013/2014 the one who gave you the floor to financial year. I wish to however present the motion. You should state that telephone connection therefore address me. has already been completed at HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Struizendam, Khuis and Khawa. Laughter! I thank you, Mr Chairman. KGOSI TOTO II MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi (KGALAGADI SOUTH Boiditswe, please continue. REGION): Thank you Mr KGOSI BOIDITSWE: I was Chairman. responding to those who oppose MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you me. Kgosi Toto. We have completed the questions as per today’s order HONOURABLE MEMBERS: paper. Laughter!

SWEARING IN OF DIKGOSI KGOSI BOIDITSWE: I request BEFORE ASSUMPTION OF that Dikgosi should be sworn in DUTY before they assume duty. There are times when communities Motion show concerns on the behaviour KGOSI BOIDITSWE of some Dikgosi and I think an (SEROWE REGION): Thank Oath of Allegiance would help to 66 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 SWEARING IN OF DIKGOSI BEFORE ASSUMPTION OF DUTY - Motion change that particular Kgosi. It am eager to hear what Members could encourage him to do better. will say on this motion. Thank Taking a vow gives one a purpose you Mr Chairman. and it will discourage laziness in the workplace. Bogosi does not MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you have any boundaries, Dikgosi Kgosi Boiditswe. I believe that are recognised nationally no you have brought the motion in matter where they go. It is order to get the end result after a huge responsibility which the debate and not to just listen. needs one to be sworn in when Honourable Members have been assuming duty. Mr Chairman, listening to the presentation; this issue should not bring about therefore they will debate on the questions of whether Dikgosi do presentation made. not serve diligently when they KGOSI LEMPADI are not sworn in. This is just to (OKAVANGO REGION): strengthen the Bogosi dignity. Thank you Mr Chairman. I We still have a concern that when thank the mover of the motion Dikgosi assume duty, there are for the presentation but this is no refresher courses. Maybe this a difficult motion. I therefore would be the first step towards do not see myself supporting restoring the powers of Dikgosi. it. Dikgosi are always saying I do not think there is anyone that culture should be restored who can reject this motion. This in this country. According to should not bring about any fear; it our culture, upon installation, would be just a move to show our Kgosi is given the time to say commitment towards our work. a few words in accepting the It is a confirmation before the responsibility, that is swearing community and God that one will in according to our culture. I do serve diligently. Mr Chairman, I not know if Kgosi means that think I have said enough and I Dikgosi should be sworn in at will stop this far. I would like to Courts. Pardon me for asking conclude by urging Members to this; who would be sworn in. is support that Dikgosi should be it Dikgosikgolo? The way I see sworn in. I have attended many it, we will be going against our coronations for Dikgosi and I culture because Kgosi is installed realised that the swearing in part by the community and after was missing. It should be done that they accept responsibility during the coronation ceremony, and seek cooperation from the before the whole community. I community itself. I therefore do 67 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 SWEARING IN OF DIKGOSI BEFORE ASSUMPTION OF DUTY - Motion not deem the move to swear in ushering that Kgosi into Bogosi. Dikgosi justifiable. Thank you This is done by draping that Mr Chairman. Kgosi with whatever animal skin and handing over of the sword; KGOSI SEKWENYANE that is how Kgosi is anointed. (NGWAKETSE WEST Swearing in cannot build a REGION): Thank you Mr person, Kgosi Boiditswe said Chairman. I will concur with that the oath changes a person, I Kgosi Lempadi that a Kgosi do not know why the Oath cannot is born. It is very clear that the change the married couples who first born child inherits Bogosi divorce even before 2 years from the parent and this practice have elapsed. These couples is known to the community. still divorce before Dikgosi, I therefore do not support the Magistrates and even pastors motion and I do not understand despite the Oath they may have whether Kgosi is suggesting that taken before everyone. Every Dikgosi should be sworn in by Kgosi who has true objectives the Magistrates court. By virtue and respect for the community of accepting the responsibility they are leading cannot fail to at installation ceremony, Kgosi lead just because they have not has been automatically sworn been sworn in. If Kgosi takes in. I do not support the motion, alcohol even after swearing in Morolong. Thank you. they would still continue with their drinking, as we have had MR CHAIRMAN: I am the cases of some Dikgosi. If Dikgosi Chairman, and not Morolong, are to be sworn in, then for those thank you Kgosi Sekwenyane. with alcoholic habits it would KGOSI RAMOKWENA not bring about any difference (MAUN REGION): Thank you but more criticism from the Mr Chairman, I would like to be community. I understand Kgosi brief. From way back, Kgosi is Boiditswe’s motion but I do not not sworn in but rather they are support it because people make anointed. These are two different vows to break them. Swearing things, swearing in and anointing. in is a big step and maybe we do Currently the anointing that takes not understand the concept well. place is upon installation; Kgosi Even though Kgosi Sekwenyane is given a chance to accept the mentioned that the first born son Bogosi responsibility and at the inherits Bogosi, if that child lacks same time the elders would be some of the required qualities 68 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 SWEARING IN OF DIKGOSI BEFORE ASSUMPTION OF DUTY - Motion then the second born child is KGOSI SEEMEKO taken to fill that gap. Thank you (SPECIALLY ELECTED): Mr Chairman. Thank you Mr Chairman. I believe the House will agree KGOSI KAHIKO III with me that we should conclude (GANTSI WEST REGION): the debate. The motion has been Thank you Mr Chairman. I debated and the mover should would like to comment on Kgosi realise that he did not consider Boiditswe’s motion. Members certain aspects before submitting looked at it from the cultural it to the House. Some of the point of view but I would like points I wanted to cover have to take it from the legal point of already been covered by Kgosi view. For a person to be sworn Kahiko III. We have to consider in upon assumption of office the procedure and origins of there has to be a provision in his Bogosi, Mr Chairman. The employment contract for that. If mover of the motion explained Bogosi Act had a provision of that taking an Oath of allegiance Oath of Allegiance, then it was would compel one to serve the going to be easy for Dikgosi to be community with due diligence, sworn in. If we could review the I do not believe that an Oath Act, then that could be possible. can change one’s personality. It It is not easy when there is no only depends on how serious the such provision. For example, person takes their job. I believe Section 37 of the Constitution that when Kgosi is installed, he is of Botswana provide for the informed about what is expected swearing in of the President of of him. I do not understand the Republic when he assumes how this will be done, who will ensure that Dikgosi are sworn office. Section 45 is for the in and by whom. I do not know Ministers and Assistant Ministers if the mover of the motion and Section 80 is for Members of is suggesting that we should Ntlo ya Dikgosi to be sworn in campaign to get Bogosi so that as well. After that there is Justice we take that Oath? If the mover of Peace Act, Section 3 provides had looked at these aspects I do for the Justice to take an Oath of not think he would have brought allegiance. Therefore this motion this motion before this House. I cannot be supported because of believe that now Kgosi can see legal reasons. I do not support that he did not research well this motion Mr Chairman. before he tabled this motion. 69 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 SWEARING IN OF DIKGOSI BEFORE ASSUMPTION OF DUTY - Motion Thank you Mr Chairman. I was following how Members defined the Oath of allegiance but MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you some points that have been raised Kgosi Seemeko. Honourable put me in a difficult position Minister, I believe that you have because we have Kgosi and been following the debate and I those who have been assigned to will therefore give you the floor do certain duties like Moemela to respond to the motion. Kgosi or Mothusa Kgosi. MINISTER OF LOCAL We have villages whose GOVERNMENT AND communities migrated to a RURAL DEVELOPMENT particular place from different (HON SIELE): Thank you areas and then Kgosi was Mr Chairman. Members have nominated in that area. Kgosi debated this motion eloquently. would be installed in a similar Bogosi is different from other manner as any other Kgosi. offices; it goes hand in hand with That is the oath of allegiance culture. When Kgosi is installed I understand according to our and is draped in a leopard or lion culture and heritage. Should skin, the relevant elders advise we leave this kind of traditional the Kgosi accordingly. Then he is Oath then we would be defying given an opportunity to address our cultural procedure Mr the community. That is the Oath Chairman. I take it that this of allegiance we are talking House is in a position to change about, culturally. I am new in the other cultural aspects provided Ministry but I am lucky to have there are substantive reasons but attended coronation ceremonies not for the Oath of allegiance. for some Dikgosi in different Kgosi vows in front of the community as he takes his seat. regions. The very first time That is how I understand this was at my home village-Kanye matter Mr Chairman. Kgosi where Kgosi Seepapitso IV was Malope II took that traditional coronated. The elders addressed Oath when he accepted the him, and he was given a chance Bogosi seat after his coronation. to address the community and I attended the late Kgosi Besele’s coronation as well as that of he even delivered the objectives Kgosi Lotlamoreng II, the same of his leadership. The robe thing happened. Dikgosi vow that Dikgosi wear when being culturally/traditionally. In that installed is equivalent to an Oath. manner Mr Chairman, I go 70 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 VILLAGE RESPONSIBILITY ALLOWANCE FOR DIKGOSI - Motion with Members who feel that we would like to table this motion should let our culture be. Thank which reads thus, “That this you Mr Chairman. Honourable House requests Government to consider KGOSI BOIDITSWE paying a Village Responsibility (SEROWE REGION): Thank Allowance to Dikgosi.’’ Mr you Mr Chairman. I thank Chairman, my debates are Members for the comments. usually brief, I will take a I brought this motion for maximum of ten minutes or so to developmental purposes. I did present this motion. The fact that not mean for us to leave tradition, Dikgosi have since volunteered I love the procedure that we their services from way back are using currently but I only has prompted me to submit this wanted to bring in some form motion. Dikgosi advocated for of development. This debate has education and developments taught me something. We are not for this nation. They assisted here for all of our motions to be in gaining independence after agreed to but to get an idea on seeking protection from Britain. how other Members perceive This shows the importance things, a different view from how of Dikgosi in the community an individual thinks. Thank you Mr Chairman. They have long Mr Chairman. volunteered to serve the nation MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you from way back… Kgosi Boiditswe. I believe that after this debate, Bogosi has been KGOSI MACHILIDZA: well understood. I shall now put On a point of clarification. Mr the question. Chairman, I do not mean to spoil anything that Kgosi is presenting. Question put and negated. We were once advised that we could amend a motion so that it VILLAGE gets better and easy to debate. RESPONSIBILITY Can we amend this motion so ALLOWANCE FOR that it becomes easy for us to DIKGOSI support it? We all know that the Motion structure for Dikgosi does not have the D4 post. Maybe if we KGOSI MONNAATHEBE could talk about that then the (THAMAGA REGION): Minister could understand us Thank you Mr Chairman. I better, that is if he agrees to the

71 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 VILLAGE RESPONSIBILITY ALLOWANCE FOR DIKGOSI - Motion amendment, if that aspect could food. At that time, Dikgosi had be added then maybe the motion powers over Matimela cattle and would be of substance. by then they could just slaughter one for the community, that is MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you why we had such gatherings Mr Kgosi Machilidza. I believe that Chairman. These days Kgosi Kgosi Machilidza understands does not have those powers. The the procedure for proposing an community wonders what they amendment to a motion as per will get when they perform tasks the Rules of Procedure. I take assigned by Kgosi. They would it that Kgosi did not propose rather volunteer at the clinic or any amendment to this motion even at schools because they know that they benefit something therefore I will request Kgosi there. Mr Chairman, I think Monnaathebe to move on. Members have understood my KGOSI MONNAATHEBE: presentation; they will debate Thank you Mr Chairman. I and amend where necessary. was still explaining Kgosi’s Thank you Mr Chairman. responsibility to his community. MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you During funerals, Dikgosi Kgosi Monnaathebe. I believe continue to volunteer their Kgosi has made his presentation assistance. They ensure that and Members were following as the poor are assisted with he presented, I therefore leave funeral arrangements. At times the floor open for debate. Dikgosi may find themselves at the graveyard digging the KGOSI BOIDITSWE grave when Members of the (SEROWE REGION): Thank community are not enough for you Mr Chairman. I concur with the job. Kgosi should be given Kgosi on this motion. In our that responsibility allowance regions, we have Dikgosikgolo which would not be necessarily and Batshwarelela Bogosi, and a huge amount; it would just be I have a concern about them a token of appreciation. This will especially that we as Headmen also assist Members to provide and others, together with the some form of financial assistance community, are looking up to to the members of the community them. They deserve some form when the need arises. In past, of allowance, incentives such as the community used to gather at airtime and payments for using Kgosi’s house for assistance with their vehicles to attend official

72 Wednesday 26th June, 2013 VILLAGE RESPONSIBILITY ALLOWANCE FOR DIKGOSI - Motion duties. I would like to deviate a he talked about airtime and little from what the mover of the refreshments. The office has an motion has presented; I would arrangement to cater for visitors like to exclude Headmen of in terms of refreshments, there is Record and Sub-Chief from the a vote for that Mr Chairman. The proposed move because I feel other thing that Kgosi Boiditswe that Dikgosikgolo and Baemela talked about is the issue of Kgosi are more deserving than mileage, when Dikgosi have been others. I support the motion authorised to use their personal on the grounds that we should vehicle for official duties, they rather cater for them and not get paid. As for airtime, there all of us, Members will assist are Dikgosi who earn telephone where possible. Thank you Mr allowance, starting from Senior Chairman. Chief Representative and above. KGOSI KAHIKO III (GANTSI I am going through Section 17 of WEST REGION): Let me thank Bogosi Act which outlines duties you Mr Chairman. I would like of Kgosi, I want to quote it Mr to comment on the motion as Chairman, if you allow me, I shall presented by the mover- ‘that quote, “It shall be the function of Dikgosi should be provided with every Kgosi to exercise his or her village responsibility allowance.’ power under this Act to promote Does the mover of the motion know how this allowance is paid the welfare of the members of and on what grounds? Is it the his or her tribe.” This therefore responsibility that Kgosi carries is our responsibility to promote that should be paid for or what? the welfare of the members of Mentioning refreshments and our tribes therefore we cannot matimela cattle makes it even be paid for such responsibility. harder for me to support him. If In conclusion, how many matimela cattle were still under Dikgosi are going to be paid the jurisdiction of Dikgosi, does that responsibility allowance by it mean that the mover could the Government, Mr Chairman? not have brought this motion Every Kgosi has different before this House? Would he responsibilities depending on just slaughter them and provide meals for the community? I the region they oversee, if then would like to comment on we introduce this allowance, what Kgosi Boiditswe has said, other Dikgosi may ask for

73 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS extra payments based on their shall start today’s business with responsibilities. Maybe Kgosi questions as usual. wants us to take it the political QUESTIONS FOR ORAL route where councilors are paid ANSWERS ward allowances. I feel that we A FEE FOR REGISTRATION are leading our tribes in a way OF TRADITIONAL that is okay and we are there to MARRIAGES see them through all situations. KGOSI D.S. TOTO II With that, I do not support the (KGALAGADI SOUTH motion Mr Chairman. REGION): asked the Minister MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you of Labour and Home Affairs if Kgosi Kahiko. It is now 4.00 he does not consider it opportune pm and we shall adjourn until to introduce a fee for registration tomorrow morning at 9.30 am of traditional marriages. ADJOURNMENT ACTING MINISTER OF LABOUR AND The House accordingly HOME AFFAIRS (HON adjourned at 3.52 p. m. until th GABORONE): Mr Chairman, Thursday 27 June 2013, at 9.30 indeed I consider it opportune to a.m. introduce a fee for registration Thursday 27th June, 2013 of customary marriages. Registration of customary THE HOUSE met at 9.30 a. m. marriages is provided for in terms of part II of the Marriage (THE CHAIRMAN in the Act Cap: 29:01. The Marriage Chair) Act is currently under review. P R A Y E R S Therefore in line with the cost recovery principle, the * * * * introduction of such fees will be considered during the review CHAIRMAN’S REMARKS process. I thank you. MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI KGOSI TOTO II: Thank you GABORONE): Good morning Mr Chairman. Honourable Members and the Honourable Ministers here with HIGHEST PERCENTAGE us, you are all welcome. We PASS RATE IN SCHOOLS 74 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS KGOSI MOETI II District, Matsha College which (SPECIALLY ELECTED): is the only Senior Secondary asked the Minister of Education School achieved the highest and Skills Development to pass of 90 per cent in 1995. At Form 3 level, Lehutshelo Junior apprise this Honourable House Secondary School got the highest with records of the highest pass rate of 88 per cent in 2001. percentage pass rate ever achieved at form three and form Mr Chairman, in the Gantsi District, Gantsi Senior Secondary five levels in Okavango, Ngami, School attained the highest rate of Maun, Kgalagadi, Ghanzi 36.5 per cent while Tshimologo and Chobe Districts since Junior Secondary School attained independence. the highest pass rate of 77.6 per ASSISTANT MINISTER cent in 2005. Last but not least OF EDUCATION AND Mr Chairman, Chobe Region SKILLS DEVELOPMENT being the smallest, has only two (HON MASIMOLOLE): Mr Junior Secondary Schools, being Chairman, the highest percentage Chobe and Liswaani. Among the pass rates ever achieved at two, Chobe attained its highest Form 3 and Form Five levels in pass rate of 89 per cent in the the Okavango, Ngami, Maun, year 1999. Thank you. Kgalagadi, Ghanzi and Chobe KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH Districts since independence EAST): I would like to ask the are as follows: The North Honourable Minister to explain West Region which includes why some schools under perform, Maun, Ngami and Okavango have they ever established the inspectoral areas has two Senior root cause of that? I thank you. Secondary Schools being Maun and Shakawe. Maun Senior HONOURABLE Secondary School achieved its MASIMOLOLE: Thank highest results of 41.57 per cent you Mr Chairman. There are in 2005 while Shakawe is a new numerous reasons behind the school which started operating underperformance. We have in the year 2012. The North been conducting Kgotla meetings West Region also has 12 Junior around the country to establish Secondary Schools and the the root cause. One of the major highest achievement at Form 3 reasons that we established is was by Tsodilo JSS with 94.7 per that parents do not play any role cent in 1995. In the Kgalagadi in their children’s education. As 75 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS a result, students end up failing than others, they just need to because their parents do not have be supported. I thank you Mr any idea about what they are Chairman. doing. There is no relationship KGOSI MOETI II: I can see between parents, teachers and that the most affected schools are students, but associations like seniors yet they are old schools. Parents Teachers Association If I heard you very well, you (PTA) are there to close that gap mentioned Maun and Gantsi so that parents can be hands on in which had 41.1 per cent and 36 their children’s education. per cent as their highest pass rate, which is a cause for concern. I once mentioned this issue; What are your intentions to when you look at schools that improve this situation? are in towns and maybe English Medium schools, their pass rate HONOURABLE is very high. The reason behind MASIMOLOLE: Thank you this is because parents play a Mr Chairman. I have already huge role towards their children’s mentioned some of the factors education. I am not sure as to which also contribute to poor whether this is fuelled by the performance; other factors also fact that they pay high school include misconduct of students at fees but one thing that I know school. For instance, last year we is that even when such students were forced to indefinitely close are given homework, parents Maun Senior School because the assists them and even sign on the students had burnt it down. We homework to show that indeed also sent the students back home they have seen it. We have because the situation was getting advised parents in rural areas that out of control. We have come they should desist from the idea up with an initiative to admit of engaging students after school students in catchment areas while their homework is left only in schools that are nearer unattended. They should rather to them where they can easily play that pivotal role as parents be monitored by parents. Last by supporting their children with year when I was in Kang, the their learning and be advisors at same incident nearly happened, PTAs. In that way, children will two or three students wanted to be able to improve because it is burn down the school The huge not like these children in English challenge that we have is parents mediums are more intelligent who reside very far from their 76 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS children and therefore are not allocate 4 x 4 km ranches in the able to assist in bringing students Kgalagadi South region to enable to order and disciplining them, farmers to prepare for the new so it is a challenge. That is why Botswana Meat Commission we found it necessary to admit (BMC) plan. students in schools that are nearer MINISTER OF LANDS to their homes so that parents AND HOUSING (HON can always be engaged where MOKALAKE): Mr Chairman, necessary. Most of senior school currently, Kgalagadi Land students are prone to misconduct Board has no plans to allocate when they are in boarding 4 x 4 km ranches in Kgalagadi schools because they are far South Region. This is primarily from their parents. Some of these because there is no such policy misconducts include alcohol pronouncement for the reduction abuse, drug abuse and engaging of sizes of ranches from 6 x 6 in relationships. Sometimes they km. I thank you. abscond from school without teacher’s knowledge and go KGOSI TOTO II: Mr into the village to do all these. If Chairman, does the Honourable parents are closer to school, they Minister mean that Kgalagadi can always be called to intervene Land-Board only allocates and help teachers to discipline ranches of six by six or more? the students because they are our future leaders. I thank you Mr HONOURABLE Chairman. MOKALAKE: The policy KGOSI MOETI II: Please allows the ranch sizes to be six do something to address this by six but they are never the situation Honourable Minister. I exact same size, some can be 5.9 thank you. or 5.8 km and above. In other words, the minimum size should ALLOCATION OF 4 X 4 be six by six kilometres. I thank KM RANCHES IN THE you. KGALAGADI SOUTH KGOSI TOTO II: Thank you KGOSI D.S. TOTO II Mr Chairman. (KGALAGADI SOUTH REGION): asked the Minister SERVICING BOTSWANA of Lands and Housing to explain HOUSING CORPORATION when the Land Board will PLOTS IN KANYE 77 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS KGOSI B. RAMOKONE (i) the legal meaning of tribal (KANYE REGION): To ask the territory; Minister of Lands and Housing to consider servicing the Botswana (ii) what direct jurisdiction Housing Corporation (BHC) from Tribal Territories Act plots in Kanye. does Kgosi and the tribe have over a tribal territory; MINISTER OF LANDS and AND HOUSING (HON MOKALAKE): Mr Chairman, (iii) The legal instruments that there are currently no plans empower Kgosi and the to service Botswana Housing tribe to determine land use Corporation (BHC) plots in or prevent their tribal land Kanye. Servicing such plots from mismanagement and will be considered alongside abuse. other priorities in future, funds permitting. Normally when MINISTER OF LANDS BHC requests for allocation of AND HOUSING (HON land and there is no serviced MOKALAKE): Mr Chairman, land, they just take it and service Dikgosi derive their jurisdiction it themselves and file for a from Bogosi Act and not from reimbursement later on. That is the Tribal Territories Act. Tribal why sometimes most people are Territories are defined in the of the opinion that BHC houses Tribal Territories Act, CAP 32; are expensive; it is because they 03 and the legal meaning of have included service costs. such may be deduced from the said Act. Dikgosi derive their If we had included the services, powers for determining land use BHC could have paid us for that or preventing mismanagement and they would still charge the or abuse of land from Bogosi buyer for the services they have Act CAP 41; 01, Sections 17- paid for. In this case, they have 20 of Bogosi Act of 2008 which serviced for themselves and broadly provides the functions charged the buyer. I thank you. under which such powers may be derived. I thank you. TRIBAL TERRITORY KGOSI MOETI II KGOSI MOETI II: Honourable (SPECIALLY ELECTED): Minister, Bogosi Act is more asked the Minister of Lands and focused on powers of Dikgosi Housing to explain:- with regards to their people and 78 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS areas not on land allocation. KGOSI SEKWENYANE: My main concern is on land There are those that we call Land allocation and complaints Overseers at Land Board, they relating to land. I want to know are selected by Kgosi... if there is any jurisdiction that MR CHAIRMAN: Kindly ask Kgosi and Morafe have on land your supplementary question. use. The initial question that KGOSI SEKWENYANE: What I asked was about powers to is the duty of Land Overseer Mr control land use and prevention Chairman? I thank you. of its mismanagement not what the Honourable Minister has MR CHAIRMAN: Please let us indicated in his answer. Can the proceed because it is clear that Minister respond to the question Kgosi is asking about something that he already knows, he is that I have asked? asking what the duty of Land HONOURABLE Overseer who watches over MOKALAKE: I am not sure land use is. The term is self if I understand Kgosi very well explanatory. on appeal because Dikgosi still GAZZETING OF preside over appealled land CHARLESHILL cases. Furthermore, they sit as KGOSI M. KAHIKO III ex-officio members in Land (GHANZI WEST): asked the Boards. Unless Kgosi is referring Minister of Lands and Housing to appeals that are before the if Charleshill is a planning area, Land Tribunal which is a level and if so when was it gazetted. higher than Land Board where we engage land experts and MINISTER OF LANDS AND HOUSING (HON lawyers. They have the powers MOKALAKE): Thank you Mr to decide over any land issue Chairman. Charleshill is not a brought before them. Nowadays planning area. However, my Dikgosi have influence over Ministry in collaboration with every decision made at Land the Council Boards because they are there is preparing a Development Plan for Charleshill. The said as advisory bodies. I believe I plan is intended to guide future have responded to your question developments in the village. I Kgosi. I thank you. thank you. 79 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS KGOSI KAHIKO III: (ii) Why others were Honourable Minister, since you transferred without are saying Charleshill is not a promotion during the same planning area, are residents who period. want to make developments expected to meet the standards of ASSISTANT MINISTER OF a planning area? LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT HONOURABLE (HON GABORONE): Mr MOKALAKE: There is nothing Chairman, wrong in finding out about the standards. For instance, if you (i) One (1) Court Clerk from want to build a shop in a place was that is not a planning area, you transferred on promotion have to submit the proposal at between 2012 and 2013. the Council or Land Board so (ii) Transfer of officers is that they give you advice. This is so because it is a commercial not necessarily attached plot under Common law even to promotion but based though it is not in a planning also on the exigencies of area. Other developments like service as well as other building a house do not need the considerations such as authorisation and inspection of period of stay in a station the council. I thank you. and staff welfare issues. Thank you Sir. NUMBER OF COURT CLERKS TRANSFERRED KGOSI TOTO II: Thank ON PROMOTION FROM you Mr Chairman. What is the KGALAGADI DISTRICT criterion that is used to promote KGOSI D. S. TOTO II Court Clerks because some have (KGALAGADI SOUTH been in the same position for REGION): asked the Minister more than 20 years. of Local Government and Rural Development to explain to the HONOURABLE House:- GABORONE: I believe Kgosi is aware that there has to be a (i) how many Court Clerks from Kgalagadi District quarterly assessment which will were transferred on be used to determine upgrading. promotion from 2012 to If there are no assessments, then 2013; and there will be no promotion. We 80 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS always encourage supervisors to LIST OF SITES TO SUPPLY perform reviews so that officers AND INSTALL THE LAN can get the opportunity to be TRIBAL ADMINISTRATION promoted. That is why officers OFFICES are given a chance whenever 1 Mahalapye there is a post, then they will be invited for interview. I thank you. 2 Serowe 3 Tonota NUMBER OF CUSTOMARY 4 Selibe-Phikwe COURTS CONNECTED 5 WITH INTERNET 6 SERVICES 7 Sowa KGOSI LOTLAMORENG 8 Maun II (BAROLONG): asked the 9 Minister of Local Government 10 Shakawe and Rural Development to state 11 Ghanzi how many Customary Courts are 12 connected with internet services 13 and if there are any plans to 14 Goodhope connect other Courts in the near 15 future. 16 Moshupa ASSISTANT MINISTER OF 17 Thamaga LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND 18 Letlhakeng RURAL DEVELOPMENT 19 Kang (HON GABORONE): Mr 20 Mabutsane Chairman, there are five (5) 21 Customary Courts connected 22 Hukuntsi with internet services and KGOSI LOTLAMORENG: these are Gaborone, Tlokweng, Can the Honourable Minister Masunga, and the confirm to this Honourable Customary Court of Appeal – House whether this internet is South. working in all the five mentioned There are plans to connect 22 Dikgotla. Dikgotla with internet services during 2013/2014 financial year. HONOURABLE I will provide the list to Kgosi for GABORONE: Thank you Mr his appreciation. I thank you. Chairman. I am really not in 81 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS a position to say if they are in with two minibuses for both the use or not because it is for the Staff and Dikgosi when they go users to report if they are not. It on official trips. is imperative that they alert the Ministry so that we work on it. MINISTER OF LOCAL I thank you. GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT KGOSI GAREBAKWENA: (HON GABORONE): Mr Thank you Mr Chairman. Chairman, my Ministry is Can the Honourable Minister currently considering to provide confirm to this House whether at least one (1) minibus for use the program will be extended to by the staff and Dikgosi when other Dikgotla that are not listed they go on official trips, funds here or are these are the only permitting. That notwithstanding, ones that will be connected? I Departments are advised to seek thank you. transport assistance from other local authorities. I thank you Sir. HONOURABLE GABORONE: For now I will STATUTES THAT COVER not go beyond 2014. Before I KGOSI came here this morning, I asked KGOSI MOETI II if there are any plans to extend (SPECIALLY ELECTED): the program beyond 2014 asked the Minister of Local and they confirmed that the Government and Rural Ministerial Tender Board will Development to state:- for now concentrate on the ones listed above. I thank you. (i) what statutes cover a Kgosi who is not trained PROVISION OF in either Common Law or TRANSPORT TO Customary Law to preside KGALAGADI TRIBAL over a case and sentence ADMINISTRATION an offender to jail based on his/her warrant; KGOSI D. S. TOTO II (KGALAGADI SOUTH (ii) what law would justifiably REGION): asked the Minister force the accused to serve of Local Government and Rural the sentence if they can Development if he does not argue that the presiding deem it necessary to provide officer is not trained in law; Kgalagadi Tribal Administration and 82 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS (iii) what the position of the Government and Rural International Law is Development if he will consider regarding this matter. appointing another Headman of Record at Kumakwane Kgotla MINISTER OF LOCAL as it has a population of 7000 GOVERNMENT AND people. RURAL DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANT MINISTER OF (HON GABORONE): Mr LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND Chairman, Customary Courts RURAL DEVELOPMENT Act Cap 04:05 at Section 47 (HON GABORONE): covers a Kgosi who is not Thank you Mr Chairman. My trained in either common Law or Ministry has no plans to appoint Customary Law to preside over a another Headman of Record at case and sentence an offender to Kumakwane Kgotla. Population jail based on their warrant. There is not the only determining is no provision in the law that factor in appointing Headmen of requires presiding officers in the Records. Currently Kumakwane Customary Courts to be trained is effectively served by a Chief in law and as such an argument Representative and the work load raised by the accused person does not warrant an additional will be dealt with by the relevant Kgosi. In 2011, 84 criminal and Appellate Court. Though we civil cases were recorded against cannot specify a particular 73 criminal and civil cases in international law regarding this 2012. I thank you. matter, it is universally held that the accused person has a right to MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you appeal any judgment passed on Honourable Minister. him/her. Thank you Sir. KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Are MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you the number of cases recorded Honourable Minister. in a Kgotla still determine the upgrading of a Kgotla? What is APPOINTMENT OF the actual number of cases that HEADMAN OF RECORD AT have to be recorded per month KUMAKWANE or year in order to determine an upgrading of a Kgotla? I thank KGOSI A. O. you. MONNAATHEBE (THAMAGA REGION): HONOURABLE asked the Minister of Local GABORONE: Thank you Mr 83 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS Chairman. I want to believe that turned the question into a debate, Honourable Members together however, in all fairness, it would with their tribes are better placed not be ideal to inconvenience when it comes to the challenges the community on the basis that and work load they are faced Kgosi is on leave. I thank you. with. Tribal Administration can MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you keep checking from time to Honourable Minister. time to locate those areas that need more Dikgosana. After a KGOSI MONNAATHEBE: Is recommendation has been made, the Honourable Minister aware a thorough research must be that in this particular place carried out to establish if there that I was asking about, when is need for upgrading because Kgosi goes on leave, the tribe is there are so many pending inconvenienced? projects that need to be carried out. There is no guarantee that HONOURABLE every recommendation shall GABORONE: I am not aware be approved, we prioritise. The of that but like I have already criterion used is not rigid because stated, we shall look into it. May sometimes the number of I request that we take it outside recorded cases is not applicable this Honourable House so that in every area, in other areas the we can discuss it further? I thank recorded number is too little you. though there is need to upgrade. MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you I thank you. Honourable Minister.

MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you KGOSI MONNAATHEBE: Honourable Minister. Thank you Mr Chairman and Honourable Minister. KGOSI LEMPADI: Thank you Mr Chairman. Would it not MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi I be necessary to appoint another believe you have understood Kgosana because of an increase that if there are some issues that in population? If a Kgosi is on you are still not happy with, you leave, the community would be can take it up with the Ministry disadvantaged. so that they can look into the situation. HONOURABLE GABORONE: Thank you ALLOWANCES FOR Mr Chairman. Kgosi has now DIKGOSI 84 Thursday 27th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS KGOSI D. S. TOTO II Administration and my Ministry (KGALAGADI SOUTH has taken a decision to engage the REGION): asked the Minister Ministry of Lands and Housing of Local Government and Rural on the issue. I thank you Sir. Development to explain:- MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you (i) why Allowances for Honourable Minister. Dikgosi who are members KGOSI TOTO II: Thank you of the Land Board are Mr Chairman. paid from the Tribal Administration Vote USE OF DNA TESTS IN instead of debiting the BOGOSI Land Board Vote when it is the Land Board which KGOSI M. MMUALEFHE is benefiting from their (CHOBE DISTRICT): asked participation; and the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development if (ii) does the Minister not see Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) this as placing a burden tests can be used as one of on the limited resources the factors in determining the allocated to Tribal rightful heir to Bogosi and for Administration. inheritance disputes.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT RURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON GABORONE): Thank (HON GABORONE): Thank you Mr Chairman. When the you Honourable Chairman. My arrangement to appoint Dikgosi Ministry is not a competent as Members of Land Boards authority to determine if DNA started, my Ministry undertook tests can be used as one of to pay Dikgosi allowances the factors determining the because it was convenient as rightful heir to Bogosi and for they were part of Ministry of inheritance. However, where Local Government and Rural a person lays claim to either Development establishment. My Bogosi or inheritance and their Ministry has since noted that such paternity is in doubt, the onus lies an arrangement is overstretching with the claimant to prove their the limited resources allocated case beyond reasonable doubt to the Department of Tribal that their claims have substance. 85 Thursday 27th June, 2013 VILLAGE RESPONSIBILITY ALLOWANCE FOR DIKGOSI - Motion (Resumed Debate) I thank you. if DNA tests can be used as one of the factors determining the KGOSI MMUALEFHE: rightful heir to Bogosi and for Thank you Mr Chairman. These inheritance. However, where issues keep on cropping up, what a person lays claim to either does Government intend to do to Bogosi or inheritance and their address them? paternity is in doubt, the onus lies HONOURABLE with the claimant to prove their GABORONE: Thank you Mr case beyond reasonable doubt Chairman. This is a very difficult that their claims have substance. and sensitive issue. If need arises, MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you it is upon the Bogosi family, the Honourable Minister. tribe and Government to discuss which route to take. However, KGOSI MMUALEFHE: but it should be discussed by the Thank you Mr Chairman and family first. I thank you. Honourable Minister.

MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you Honourable Minister. Kgosi Mmualefhe. We have KGOSI MOETI II: … come to the end of today’s (Inaudible)… business on questions, we shall proceed to motions. MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi Moeti, kindly raise your voice, VILLAGE Honourable Members can hardly RESPONSIBILITY hear you. ALLOWANCE FOR DIKGOSI KGOSI MOETI II: … Motion (Inaudible)… (Resumed Debate) MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you Kgosi Moeti. Honourable MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable Minister may I kindly ask you to Members, yesterday when we read the answer again so that it adjourned, we were still debating clarifies Kgosi Moeti’s question. Kgosi Monnaathebe’s motion. I will now open the floor to those HONOURABLE who still wish to debate. GABORONE: Thank you Mr Chairman. My Ministry is not a KGOSI LEMPADI competent authority to determine (OKAVANGO REGION):

86 Thursday 27th June, 2013 VILLAGE RESPONSIBILITY ALLOWANCE FOR DIKGOSI - Motion (Resumed Debate) Thank you Mr Chairman. I stand KGOSI MACHILIDZA here to support this motion. As (BOTETI REGION): Thank Members of Ntlo Ya Dikgosi, you Mr Chairman. I will be brief we are entitled to a responsibility too. I understand what Kgosi allowance, but I cannot say the Monaathebe is saying. Our roles same about those who are in the as Dikgosi differ according to villages. They should also get an our regions. For example, in our allowance because they welcome region, when there is a report a lot of visitors who sometimes of a missing person, Kgosi need to be given accommodation has to organise a search party. and food. It will be of great Sometimes the search party help if Government could assist depends on Kgosi for food and Dikgosi with this allowance. I water. If Kgosi does not delegate do not think this will be difficult a search party to look for the because Government has found missing person, the impression it worthy to give Members of will be that he/ she has played a Ntlo Ya Dikgosi an allowance; part in the missing of that person. the same can always be extended This is very common in our area. to other Dikgosi who are not The dignity of Dikgosi has a lot to Members of this House. I thank do with what they have, because you. there is no how a dignified person could be poor. These are some of MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you the factors that we seriously need Kgosi Lempadi. to look into when it comes to the KGOSI SEKWENYANE dignity of Dikgosi. This is a good (NGWAKETSE WEST motion, the only hurdle will be REGION): Thank you Mr availability of funds. I support Chairman. I support this this motion and I thank you Mr motion. Kgosi is different from Chairman. a civil servant. Kgosi is always engaged, attending funerals and ASSISTANT MINISTER OF other community events, even LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND during weekends. I therefore RURAL DEVELOPMENT support this motion because (HON GABORONE): Thank Dikgosi always have a lot on you Mr Chairman. It is a pity their table and they rarely have time to rest. In some instances, that I was not present when the they are expected to use their debate for this motion started own resources to help. I thank because I could have captured you. all the proposals that were made. 87 Thursday 27th June, 2013 VILLAGE RESPONSIBILITY ALLOWANCE FOR DIKGOSI - Motion (Resumed Debate) Nevertheless, my Ministry is implement the motion. I thank not in a position to consider you Sir. paying a Village Responsibility Allowance to Dikgosi. Dikgosi MR CHAIRMAN: I believe are paid their current salaries in Honourable Members have heard recognition of amongst others, and understood the response their Bogosi responsibilities from the Honourable Minister in their villages. In addition and I shall now give the floor to to the above, my Ministry the mover of the motion Kgosi has a challenge of paying 351 Monnaathebe to respond to the Headmen of Arbitration who Minister’s answer. are currently doing arbitration KGOSI MONNAATHEBE: work in their respective wards Thank you Mr Chairman. I but are not paid. The required would like to thank Honourable budget for this exercise is P12, Members for the full support 185, 315 annually. Currently they gave me on this motion. Dikgosi of the level of Senior I extend my gratification even Chief Representative and above to those that did not support are paid entertainment allowance the motion, I have noted their of P725 per month and a concerns even though some did telephone allowance of P100 not understand the point that I per month. This is recognition was trying to make. I understood of the work/responsibility of the Honourable Minister’s Dikgosi. Furthermore, it would response and I believe this will in be difficult to determine the future be considered because we criteria to pay Dikgosi Village know that even the Bible states Responsibility Allowance and that whatever you ask for will be this is bound to create animosity given. I believe the same will be and division among Dikgosi. It is done with this motion, it shall be worth noting that Dikgosi, unlike taken into consideration because public officers, are not subjected the Minister has highlighted that to performance based assessment Government cannot afford to as they have no clearly defined implement it for now. With that job description. It will therefore Mr Chairman, I thank you. again prove difficult to determine the need or non thereof of paying MR CHAIRMAN: Amen pastor. the said allowance. Therefore, When Honourable Members do Mr Chairman, for now the not support the motion it does Government cannot afford to not necessarily mean they do not

88 Thursday 27th June, 2013 PROVISION OF ALLOWANCE TO VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE MEMBERS - Motion understand it. When a Member there is maladministration of does not support a motion, it funds associated with VDC. simply means that they hold It is not something new; we a different opinion from the know that where there is a mover. The most important group of people working thing is to have different ideas together, maladministration is which will at the end drive to bound to occur. This committee one common ground. I thank you was formed to monitor the Kgosi Monnaathebe. We have developments of villages. In concluded Kgosi Monnaathebe’s other words, they are the village motion and we shall vote on it as Members of parliament. They is the procedure. hold a significant responsibility because they have to ensure Question put and agreed to. that village developments are implemented timely and PROVISION OF properly. This means the whole ALLOWANCE TO responsibility of the running of VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT the village lies with them. They COMMITTEE (VDC) are currently given a sitting MEMBERS allowance for the scheduled Motion meetings but that does not mean that it is all that they do, they KGOSI K. BOIDITSWE have other duties to perform (SEROWE REGION): Mr Chairman, I have tabled this throughout the month. They also motion before this Honourable monitor Ipelegeng and the Green House which reads, “that this Scorpions. Honourable House requests I am not killing the spirit of Government to provide self reliance as others may monthly allowance to Village think, but rather I encourage Development Committee (VDC) it. Furthermore, we are trying members.” Even though I did to attract some personnel with not specify the exact amount, certain expertise. Things have I believe Government will be changed, VDC’s responsibility guided by its budget. has expanded, they no longer I am requesting Government account for small amounts of to provide VDC members money, so we will need people with an allowance not salary who have the experience of despite the perception that handling money. Sometimes 89 Thursday 27th June, 2013 PROVISION OF ALLOWANCE TO VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE MEMBERS - Motion they are accused of misusing PROCEEDINGS money when in actual fact they SUSPENDED FOR may not have the expertise to APPROXIMATELY 30 handle and save money. In some MINUTES instances they fail to account for the money spent and they MR CHAIRMAN: Welcome are blamed for mishandling back from tea break. Let me the money. There are so many kindly remind Honourable challenges in VDCs which we Members that the siren reminds expect to be overcome with the us to get into the House and be highest level of intelligence and seated. Even to those who have diligence. We depend on VDC to just entered through that door, build houses that will generate that siren was meant to alert you money for the village. There is to get into to the House. I shall so much that we can say about now allow Honourable Members VDC’s responsibilities. Like I to debate the motion as it has said, the amount will be decided already been presented by the by the Government’s budget mover. but at least it should be P600. The VDC members should be KGOSI MACHILIDZA presentable as leaders of the (BOTETI REGION): Thank community. I am reminded of you Mr Chairman. I support the late Kgosi Seepapitso, he this motion. We are all aware once said that he desired to have that VDC members get a sitting presentable people working and allowance only after attending a associating with him. He said meeting but here the mover of this outside this Honourable the motion is advocating for a House one day when we were permanent monthly allowance. just having a casual chat. When This motion does not in any way I stated that we wish to recruit cancel the sitting allowance; people with some expertise, it’s it should remain as it is. He is not that I do not appreciate what simply saying they should be the current members have done, given an allowance that can I highly appreciate their job and they shall continue serving us. help to improve their lives. He As I conclude, I am not implying has proposed that they should that we should do away with the be given an allowance of spirit of voluntarism and self- P600 per month. Honourable reliance because we need that. I Members, VDC dates as far thank you Mr Chairman. back as independence. We are

90 Thursday 27th June, 2013 PROVISION OF ALLOWANCE TO VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE MEMBERS - Motion already celebrating 50 years of In other countries, there is independence but people are still slavery and people work without loyal in volunteering. We always any payment. The Ministry talk about the economic crunch of Labour and Home Affairs which has affected everyone normally does a routine check-up however all public servants to investigate if there are no such should be rewarded for their exploitations. We should not service. As representatives of those people who volunteer in take advantage of volunteerism VDC, we wish to call for support and abuse people. Back in the from our Government on this days, people would volunteer issue. In most cases, this House because our country was poor agrees on a motion but nothing but right now we are classified is ever done about it. Members as the middle income economy. of VDC always ensure that Furthermore, the Government everything is in order for Kgotla has stopped providing some meetings, even those addressed aids to the community because by Honourable Members of we are encouraged to be self- Parliament. They ought to be reliant, so VDC members should given something to reward them also benefit from this improved for their hard work. We always economy. I know that as soon engage them; delegate them to as this is approved, the standard perform some duties to ensure used to select VDC members that there is smooth running of and its structure will also be whatever activity that may take changed, they will require higher place in the Kgotla. Everything qualifications. Those who have in the village has to go through been working hard together with the VDC. The Government also needs to consider our proposal Bogosi will be cast aside for as Dikgosi. If I had powers, I those with better qualifications. I would say the motion should am of the view that old members be implemented or at least it should also get a chance to benefit should be in the pipeline and from this allowance. I agree that be considered alongside other the allowance should be P600 for projects. We are very much a start. If VDC members were aware that there is National to stop their services, we would Development Plan that guides the realise that there is a gap created financial plans, but this motion by their absence. I support the should be highly considered. motion. I thank you. 91 Thursday 27th June, 2013 PROVISION OF ALLOWANCE TO VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE MEMBERS - Motion KGOSI KAHIKO III important role. If the leadership (GHANZI WEST REGION): of this country does not show Thank you Mr Chairman. I appreciation by empowering stand here to support this motion them, then VDC will be non- because of the reasons that I shall existent. The appreciation should state. Our industrial class workers not be that much, the little that used to volunteer to be members they will be given will show of VDC. When the Government that indeed they are recognised. amended the labour laws, they When the Minister responds, were excluded because they were there should be a serious looking for those who were not consideration of the importance working at all to be members of of this committee and the role VDC. The program of Ipelegeng it plays in our villages before was designed to better the lives he informs us that there is no of Batswana, so that should money. VDC is the backbone of be the case with VDC. They every village, without it there is have a huge responsibility of no proper management of the improving the lives of Batswana village. Mr Chairman that is all including monitoring Ipelegeng. I can say about this motion. I However, they are not employed thank you. under Ipelegeng program, so KGOSI MONNAATHEBE something should be done for (THAMAGA REGION): them too. The sitting allowance Thank you Mr Chairman. I do should be replaced with monthly not wish to be long. VDC is allowance because their meetings the foundation where our local are not regular. In other villages, Government was formed. I VDC’s have expanded, they have support this motion Honourable more committees like housing Members because VDC works committee because they have hand in hand with Dikgosi. They houses for rental. The committee are given all the responsibilities ensures that those houses are in to run the village developments good condition for rental. VDC smoothly. If we were all to be plays a pivotal role in the society given an opportunity to speak, even though we overlook it. For we would all say the same thing instance, when the President or because this is beneficial to us Ministers visit a village, all the all. I thank you Mr Chairman. village development updates are done by the VDC, this is a KGOSI GAREBAKWENA clear indication that they play an (MOLEPOLOLE REGION):

92 Thursday 27th June, 2013 PROVISION OF ALLOWANCE TO VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE MEMBERS - Motion Thank you Mr Chairman. I stand not wish to be long in supporting here to support this motion too. this motion. VDC members are I would like to point out that nominated for a three year term, we are very much aware that is it proper to be in that office and there is an economic crunch yet get nothing? Their meetings but we must also bear in mind are held only two or three times that the VDC members are a year and the allowance they get volunteers. Our Government is for that sitting is too little. In my trying by all means to develop region, the VDC has about P175, our villages and VDC is behind 000 in the VDC account. Now, the implementation of all these is it possible for the treasurer developments, therefore it is to account for that amount of crucial that they are empowered money when they are not given by improving their lives. As anything in return? We know the mover of the motion has that our revenue officers are already indicated, we are not paid to account for that money asking too much, but it should so why can the same not be be something that will help done with VDC members? They them make ends meet. This will assist in constructing houses show that indeed Government for public servants and in my recognises and appreciates their region, all the civil servants efforts. They should be given rent those houses. Honourable something that will boost their Members, VDC members morale. Even though we are hold a huge responsibility of faced with the economic down running and ensuring that village turn, something should be done developments are up to standard. for them. This will also improve We have been talking about self their livelihoods and reduce reliance but that is exactly what incidents of abusing the VDC they are doing. That self reliance resources. Their responsibility from Ipelegeng programme has increased and it is high time originates from VDC and yet they received something besides Ipelegeng workers are paid P450 per month, why can the VDC not sitting allowance because things be given the same salary? We have changed. I thank you Mr have been using these people for Chairman. 50 years now and yet they are given nothing, that is why we are KGOSI LEMPADI pleading with our Government to (OKAVANGO REGION): give them an allowance. I thank Thank you Mr Chairman. I do you Mr Chairman. 93 Thursday 27th June, 2013 PROVISION OF ALLOWANCE TO VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE MEMBERS - Motion KGOSI RAMOKWENA Honourable Minister to respond. (MAUN REGION): Thank you Mr Chairman. I support ASSISTANT MINISTER OF this motion too. Just to cite LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND an example, in our Dikgotla, RURAL DEVELOPMENT Headmen of Arbitration are (HON GABORONE): Mr our secretaries and messengers Chairman, I have been listening because there is really no one else attentively to Honourable to do the job except them, but in Members as they have been instances where the Headman of discussing the importance of Arbitration is absent, the VDC VDCs in villages which we as members take over. Even right Ministry recognises as well. now in my absence, they are I would like to point out that acting on my behalf. That is why we do have so many voluntary we are really saying, they have committees and associations a lot of responsibility, therefore like Parent Teachers Association they should be given some (PTA) and they all play an allowance. The sitting allowance important role. If we are to should continue while they get consider an allowance for VDC, monthly allowance because their it will appear like we are biased. meetings are only held three or two times a year. In that way they Although Village Development will be able to get something at Committees (VDCs) are the end of the month because very critical structures to our they work so hard. “bottom up planning” process, their membership is purely It is through their hard work on a voluntary basis. That that a village is able to develop. This motion should be highly notwithstanding, Government considered and we are cognisant introduced a sitting allowance for of the fact that there is recession all VDCs and Ward Development but the little that Government can Committees (WDCs) in towns in afford will still be appreciated. I recognition of the critical role thank you. they play. Currently VDCs as well as WDCs are paid a monthly MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you sitting allowance as follows: Kgosi Ramokwena, you have done very well to stop that VDCs/WDCs far. Without any further ado, I shall now give the floor to the Chairperson P190.00 94 Thursday 27th June, 2013 PROVISION OF ALLOWANCE TO VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE MEMBERS - Motion Members P160.00 support you. I was once hurt when they negated my motion, but I Umbrella VDCs/WDCs came to understand how they operate. I thank you Honourable Chairperson P210.00 Members for the huge support on Members P180.00 this motion which requests for VDC members to have monthly These allowances were last allowance not sitting allowance. reviewed in October 2012 as per Initially Headmen of Arbitration DPSM Directive No. 12 of 2012. were not paid until we requested for their pay, now they are paid My Ministry therefore considers and we very much appreciate the monthly sitting allowance that. Even the PTA deserves to appropriate compared to a be given something because they monthly allowance as this have already submitted their will ensure that VDCs/WDCs request at the VDC because we adhere to the monthly scheduled all treat VDC like our village meetings. I thank you. parliament. MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you Honourable Minister. I believe The VDC is capable of doing Kgosi Boiditswe was attentive to more, the only challenge is all the comments that were made the lack of motivation because by Honourable Members and of their poor lifestyles. They the response that the Minister are unable to provide for their just gave. I will give him this families. As Kgosi Garebakwena opportunity to conclude his mentioned, that is when poor motion. service delivery will creep in. We are not saying they should KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Mr be given a lot, but just a little Chairman, I have been listening something to keep them going. to the Honourable Members and Mr Chairman, things have their support on this motion, I changed, food is expensive and would like to commend them for that sitting allowance cannot their selfless efforts in supporting really make any difference. it. Yesterday I mentioned if your Furthermore, they are not motion is not supported, it does eligible to get assistance from not mean Honourable Members social workers because they are have anything against you, there part of the VDC. They do not will come a time when they will benefit from any Government

95 Thursday 27th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES - Motion program. I would like to plead managing people, provision of with the Honourable Minister leadership and even management to consult with the Cabinet of community resources. Mr about this issue because it needs Chairman, I have observed that serious consideration. Present it in these past years, our country to the Cabinet as a grievance not has really developed and even the just a motion. With those words, standard of living for Batswana I would like to thank Honourable has improved. As members of Members for their support. the global village, there are some Thank you Mr Chairman. technologies that we can utilise for our benefit at an individual, MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you Government and community Kgosi Kgomotso Boiditswe. This level. The introduction of the was a motion not a grievance and cellular phone is one of those. as is the procedure, it should be As we know Botswana has the conlcuded properly. highest market of cell phones, even though our country has Question put and agreed to. a small population, the usage COLLABORATION WITH of these gadgets is very high. CELLULAR PHONE In most cases, people own COMPANIES more than one cell phone. Mr Chairman, over the years, we Motion have not been able to create KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH- an enabling environment for EAST DISTRICT): Thank Bogosi to thrive, identify its you Mr Chairman. I have own potentials and the platform tabled this motion before this to establish its integrity. This Honourable House which reads; has led to crippling some of the “that this Honourable House services that Bogosi is supposed requests Government to consider to deliver. commissioning collaboration with cellular companies to set The introduction of technology up short messages (sms) alert will be a window of opportunity systems to individuals in order which will benefit Bogosi. to announce Kgotla meetings.” Mr Chairman, that window Mr Chairman, I believe we of opportunity is the one that are a democratic country and has prompted me to table this it has been like that from way motion because I have realized back. Bogosi is involved in that there is a problem of failure 96 Thursday 27th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES - Motion to honour Kgotla meetings by Chairman, the reason why I am the community due to various proposing that we utilize the reasons. One of the reasons is that Short Message Service (SMS) people are working from morning is that research has revealed that to 4:30 or 5:00 and others are in sms has a very popular usage. the informal sector. As a result, In the year of 2010 the Short Headmen of Arbitration who are Message Service (SMS) alerts usually sent by Kgosi to inform that were sent globally were 6.1 the community about meetings, trillion around the world. The find no one to deliver the SMSs that were sent per second message to because people are were 193 000 globally. Globally, at work. In some instances, they their usage is worth 114.6 billion. are unable to disseminate the Indeed we are living in the message with the Public Address information era. Communication system because those who do it is the core of self-development are public servants and they are because one is able to make restricted by time. They can only an informed decision based on do it within a short period. information. I am not introducing a new concept altogether, Mr Chairman, we have three we know that Department of giant cellular phone companies Transport has already embarked in Botswana, which are Mascom, on sending message alerts about be Mobile and Orange. I believe vehicle license renewals so we can have collaboration that users do not forget to pay. between Ministry of Local Senegal is one of the countries Government, Bogosi and those which, for health reasons, have cellular companies, to assist SMS alerts for expectant mothers in disseminating important to remind them of their doctor’s information like Kgotla meetings appointments. SMS alerts can at a particular area through reach the intended audience; they messages. Someone may wonder just have to be personalized. It how it will operate. I believe we would be very profitable for the have database for everything, community to receive message once Government commissions alerts about an upcoming Kgotla that collaboration, the cellular meeting with details on the date phone companies will develop and time of the meeting. software to trace everyone’s and whether it is a permanent Mr Chairman, I believe or temporary residence. Mr technology has improved many 97 Thursday 27th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES - Motion economies around the world. If will be hard to live without them. you look at the Asian countries Nevertheless I do admit that there today, they have benefited are certain vulnerabilities that massively from technology. can come with this Honourable Their greatest strength is the way Members. SMS has some certain they disseminate their services limitations; it can happen that an using technology which I believe SMS may be delayed when sent Botswana Innovation Hub will and reach the recipient after the take the responsibility of. Often event has passed. Calls can also times, people feel they were not get mixed up, that is something involved in decision making we have experienced with our because they were never part telephones as I have mentioned of any Kgotla meeting where yesterday. If the same can happen that decision might have been with cellular phones, then we are taken. I strongly believe these going to have messages being are the things that can enhance sent to wrong recipients. As I our development as a country. have already stated, it will not be There are different types of SMS difficult for people to penetrate alerts. There is one called silent the telecommunications market. SMS alert; it is normally used Currently the cost of making by the Police, DIS or Interpol calls is still expensive. I believe to track an individual. If they that with further liberalization of want to track a person silently, the market of telecommunication they send a request to a mobile we are going to see more and service provider to assist them more prices dropping which will to track the movements of the give Batswana the opportunity to concerned person. Mr Chairman, access telecommunications. As I it has been proven in this House conclude Mr Chairman, I would that the usage of cellular phone like to point out that Kgotla has is very important as you have developed. We want to enhance to keep asking Honourable the significance of Kgotla in Members to switch off their Botswana so that it matches the cellular phones. Cell phones current demand. have even replaced the Botswana Telecommunications landlines at Mr Chairman, technology is one home as they are not mobile, they of the contributing factors that can only be used in the house. nullify the efforts to transfer More people have become so skills because in rural areas there used to using cell phones that it is lack of facilities for technology

98 Thursday 27th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES - Motion to thrive. I have tabled this motion developments. Mr Chairman, with the belief that it will make that is all that I have to say on my things much easier for us as it motion, I believe this Honourable will enhance the significance of House will debate it the way they a Kgotla because the traditional perceive it. I thank you. way of inviting people to Kgotla MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you meetings should be enhanced Kgosi Masunga for your motion. by the modern technology. One You reminded me that I did not of the crucial points that I have call the owner of the phone that not mentioned here is that most was ringing in the House to of the meetings are unscheduled. order. Maybe this motion came at We are not informed well on the right time because it will be a time about it and that gives us reminder to phone users to switch less time to invite the community them off whenever they come for the meeting. We are supposed into this Honourable House. We to raise money that will cater for have just been informed that the coming delegation and that is there are more cellular phones the responsibility of the VDC as than the actual population of this it has been stated earlier. It is not country. If we cannot switch them easy to contact the VDC members off, we should maybe leave them at their homes on landlines. If somewhere else so that they do we can collaborate with mobile not disturb us. I had pleaded with providers, this will be covered Honourable Members that if the by sending the messages well on phone cannot switch off, they time. Mr Chairman, a letter was should rather remove the battery. recently dispatched to us Dikgosi I will request to have a bucket at claiming that we do not attend the corner to put the batteries for Kgotla meetings. Sometimes all those phones that ring in the we are not even aware of some House. I believe we have all been of the invitation letters because listening to Kgosi Masunga’s of the improper communication motion; I will now give the floor channel that was used. It is to Honourable Members who really evident that indeed wish to debate. communication plays a crucial role in our lives. Communication KGOSI BOIDITSWE determines the way people (SEROWE REGION): Thank perceive each other, if they you Mr Chairman. I support fail to understand each other, this motion. A lot of countries we are bound to have delays in are now coming to Botswana

99 Thursday 27th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES - Motion for benchmarking purposes to Foreigners do not understand the learn more about procedure, language used to invite people processes and practices. We for Kgotla meetings. We always recently had South Africa which complain about their failure to came to benchmark about our attend because they are supposed education system. It is now to attend these meetings to get high time for Botswana to updates on village developments. improve her standards because If they do not attend, we may we are attracting a lot of foreign assume that they are only investors, so they should not be interested in business; not the better than us. They come here to development of the village. If benchmark because they want to SMSs are sent in English, they be better than us economically. will have no excuse to miss the meeting. The invitation may read, I am a chairman for pensioners ‘Dear Sir/Madam, tomorrow committee in my village and there will be a Kgotla meeting. most of them have cell phones. You are very much welcome to Most of the times the vehicle that the meeting. The Kgosi or the is normally used to dispatch the Minister will be addressing the information about the meetings meeting or the President will be does not cover the cattle posts here with us, therefore kindly where these pensioners are. It do attend that Kgotla meeting’. will be more profitable to have an With this, they may be able to advanced medium of technology that can be used to dispatch this attend the meeting. information because it will reach Mr Chairman, let me give other them where ever they are. Some Honourable Members a chance people have complained before to debate because I believe we that they are never informed have all understood the point he about the meetings. I think this SMS alert will be of great is trying to put across. I thank help more so that the mobile you. service providers are more KGOSI SEEMEKO into upgrading communities. This will be of great help to us (SPECIALLY ELECTED): as Dikgosi because it really Thank you Mr Chairman. I stand demoralizes us to have a very here to support this motion too. low turn up for a Kgotla meeting Firstly, I would like to point out while people complain that they that the PA system is not used are never informed of these much these days. If we adopt meetings. this motion and implement it,

100 Thursday 27th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES - Motion the community will be able to the meeting convener will just receive the invitations to the inform the Village Development meeting and be encouraged Committee (VDC) to invite to attend. However, one may people for a meeting and at ask how the elderly will know times it comes in the form of an about these invitations. Mr instruction but that should not Chairman, as the mover of the be the case. So this will really motion has indicated, everyone address some these things. these days has a cellphone and We are sometimes faced with if they are not able to read and challenges when we convey the write, they mostly stay with their invitation through our VDCs grandchildren, they can always because they will assure us that ask them to read the messages they have sent the invitation letters when in actual fact they for them. never even wrote a letter. Mr Chairman, we ought to Mr Chairman, this motion has consider some things with the really come at the right time seriousness they deserve. We which I believe the Assistant should not fight to implement Honourable Minister will things that will only create consider without concentrating problems for us. SMS plays a much on the issue of economic pivotal role in the sense that recession. We are all aware of it reminds us of the important the fact that there is recession, so services that we ought to do like this motion should be considered licence renewals. I do not think alongside other projects. We it will be problematic if mobile should not be told the same story providers can do the same for every time that there is no money. customary courts. It will assist With those few words, I support us to know of our meetings well this motion Mr Chairman. Thank on time so that we can suspend you. the plans we made to attend the meeting. This will also alleviate KGOSI MOETI II the perception by some people (SPECIALLY ELECTED): that they are not welcome at Thank you Mr Chairman. We these Kgotla meetings. The were listening to the mover of arrangements for some of these the motion as he explained his meetings do not sit well with motion to us. There is something us, but we have no choice but that I did not quite get; he to welcome visitors. Sometimes mentioned the use of PA system

101 Thursday 27th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES - Motion and other arrangements that they can read and write, those have been in place, I want to who cannot read can ask anyone understand if we will no longer to read the messages for them. use them, but I think that is what Furthermore, the SMS alerts he said. Some of the means of are delivered to the recipients conveying the invitation include, instantly. Most of the times when PA system, letters and word of Government Ministries want to mouth, but I will focus on the conduct a Kgotla meeting they PA system. This is something want to draw in the VDC to do that we have relied on and it the invitation for that meeting, will not be easy to abandon it. either through letters or the PA It should continue to be used system. The challenge is in most because we are used to hearing cases there are no resources to do so. I can attest that most of meeting invitations through it. I the meetings that are normally remember one person who was successful are those conducted overseas who said they miss by the Ministry of Youth, being home and listening to PA Sports and Culture, Health and system inviting the community Veterinary department. The sms for a Kgotla meeting. alert combined with invitation Mr Chairman, I believe this letters and PA systems will really motion is very good. We have a simplify things because it will very low turn up at our Kgotla reach a lot of people and they meetings and this is very will have no reason to say they disturbing. However when things did not hear about the meeting. turn out this way, we should have I once attended a meeting that an alternative measure which was convened by fire department will stir up that enthusiasm to and they also suggested that attend the meetings because it is they would like to use SMS important for Batswana to attend system so that they can be them. Most of the times, people alerted when there is a veld fire. attend if it is His Excellency, I believe we are heading there. the President convening the Furthermore, I have observed meeting or a Minister, but that people respond positively to generally, people attend in very competitions that are normally small numbers. This motion will run through SMS. Sometimes help in matters like these. As it when a user sends a call me back, has been stated before, a lot of normally when the message gets Batswana have cell phones and through, there is another message 102 Thursday 27th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES - Motion attached to it that advertises visits, for instance, South something else from the service Sudan which recently took its provider. Maybe to cut the costs, independence. They have visited we could use that too. With us in Ramotswa quite a few times those few words, I thank you Mr just to learn about our traditional Chairman. set up. The report that they have KGOSI MOSADI (BALETE): given is that, Botswana displays Thank you Mr Chairman. good governance that tolerates In his presentation of the tradition. There is one man from motion, Kgosi highlighted the the Netherlands, I forgot to take importance of a role of a Kgotla down his contact details, he is as it has been the central place writing a book about the Kgotla for community gatherings. Even System. One of the issues which when Government took over, raises a concern is that the youth she did not abandon the Kgotla do not recognise the importance system and improvise new of the traditional set up and they ways of community gatherings. even suggest that it should be Our President is also engaged dissolved as it has been overtaken in conducting Kgotla meetings by events. I would like to point in our Dikgotla and he even out that the use of modern sits around the fire with elders technology especially internet learning about the cultures of a and cell phones is something that is highly appreciated by village. I have never seen women the youth. When it comes to being chased from sitting around short message system (sms), it that fire because I have once sat is something that they do more around it. I believe this shows often and their speed for typing the development of a Kgotla is much faster than the elders. as already mentioned by Kgosi Masunga this morning. I would like to commend Kgosi Masunga for tabling such a We have observed that a lot of wonderful motion which I foreigners visit our country and consider long overdue. I am most of Dikgotla have already saying this because we have welcomed these visitors as other Government arrangements they come to learn more about in place that are used like the our Government which did not PA system, word of mouth and abandon the traditional set up in other villages they use a bell. being Bogosi and Kgotla. There On top of what we already have, are those who even do frequent we are proposing to add another 103 Thursday 27th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES - Motion means of conveying the message their representatives. The same to the community which is the applies to those who would not use of sms through the help of be able to hear the PA system, our mobile service providers they will get the sms alerts. This like Orange, Be-mobile, and will increase the attendance of Mascom. We are proposing for our Kgotla meetings. collaboration with them so that At times when an invitation whenever we have a Kgotla is conveyed through the PA meeting, we can use them to system, young people ignore it help us extend the invitation to because they are of the view that the community. I would like to the message is intended for the touch on one of the issues that elderly because of the ambiguity were discussed by Members of of Setswana. Out of respect, the Parliament recently. There is message normally says elders an initiative called Botswana are invited for a meeting when Speaks which will create a in actual fact everyone is invited. platform where electorates will Honourable Members, the youth be able to interact with their are complaining that sometimes representatives. It is currently when young ladies attend Kgotla being piloted in some of the meetings wearing trousers they constituencies. Our constituency are chased away. I would like to has been briefed already. Some advise that we should sit down people were of the view that this with them and advised them to will cripple the importance of dress properly. We should accept Kgotla system as people will no that times have changed, we longer be interested in attending cannot expect to have the same Kgotla meetings as they will be old traditional set up in this era. using that platform to interact Please do not misinterpret me, with their representatives. I shared a different opinion I am not saying we should now because I believe that this is allow trousers to be worn in one way of improving our Dikgotla. I believe that when a processes through technology as woman puts on a trouser which is a democratic country. I believe not tight and then complimented that this will open a way for by a jacket or a shirt, I do not think the entire community. Those who do not have the chance to there is anything wrong with it. attend the Kgotla meetings like We should look into such issues the youth will be able to use because we are complaining that this medium to interact with the community is not attending 104 Thursday 27th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES - Motion our Kgotla meetings. We should that they could sponsor us as be accommodative to show that well. If this could be brought to we appreciate developments their attention, maybe they will around us. That is all that I respond positively because this wanted to say. I thank you. will benefit the entire community Amen. including them. It has already been stated that when they send MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you these messages, they can also add Kgosi Mosadi Seboko. I have their own promotional message observed that nowadays we are which will reach the community. very religious in this Honourable Ofcourse there are possibilities House, maybe we will change the of networks limitations or no language that we use here. Thank network coverage at all but the you Kgosi Mosadi Seboko. message will reach a lot of people. With those words, I support KGOSI GAREBAKWENA this motion and Government (MOLEPOLOLE REGION): should consider this as a way Thank you Mr Chairman. I stand of encouraging the community here to support Kgosi Masunga’s to attend the Kgotla meetings. I motion and commend him for the thank you Mr Chairman. thorough research he did. It is a lesson for us that whenever we KGOSI MACHILIDZA: wish to table a motion, we should Thank you Mr Chairman. follow the same route. The fact MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi is majority of both young people Machilidza I just wanted you to and elders have cell phones, and say thank you so that we suspend they can read and write because the proceedings for lunch, we the elders can read the Setswana shall come back 2.30 pm Bible. Inviting the community to these Kgotla meetings will drive PROCEEDINGS them to realise how important SUSPENDED FOR LUNCH these meetings are. We have already seen the sms alerts being MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI very helpful in other areas like GABORONE): Good afternoon paying of bills and even salaries. Members and Honourable Our mobile service providers Minister. I believe that when we have already sponsored activities parted for lunch, the Member like sports and maybe it has who was on the floor was Kgosi not yet come to their attention Machilidza. 105 Thursday 27th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES - Motion KGOSI MACHILIDZA motion present during the time of (BOTETI REGION): Thank the debate of the motion. It could you Mr Chairman. I do not wish be that the Honourable Chair to be long Mr Chairman because could consider whether to briefly many have already said a lot adjourn and then make decisions about this motion and maybe thereafter. after my comment, Honourable Members will close the debate. MR CHAIRMAN: I will request I support this motion. We need we suspend the proceedings for a such technology because it will few minutes due to the absence be of great help to us. I once of the mover of the motion, we received a text message alert shall resume after those few that reminded me of the offices minutes. that I could access should I need certain assistance. Issues like PROCEEDINGS these should be attended to as SUSPENDED FOR 5 soon as possible... MINUTES KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Point of We may be seated Honourable order Mr Chairman. (Inaudible) Members, I think we have … the mover of the motion is exceeded the five minutes that absent so do we continue in his we had agreed on. It looks like absence. I am asking because it the mover of the motion is my first time to see it. not present in this Honourable MR CHAIRMAN: Maybe the House. Kgosi Boiditswe brought Parliamentary Counsel (PC) this to our attention at the right could guide us. time. It would not be proper for us to proceed with the motion while MR RAMOKHUA the mover is absent because he (PARLIAMENTARY will not be here to conclude the COUNSEL): The practice and motion after the response from the tradition of the House is that the Minister. For that reason, we shall stop here for today and the mover of the motion must be meet tomorrow in the morning. present during the debate of the I would like to take this time motion, and equally the Minister to thank Honourable members responsible to make the rebuttal, and Honourable Ministers now as the Honourable Kgosi for availing themselves this has pointed out it is a noble afternoon. I believe it was not situation to have the mover of the according to our plan to adjourn 106 Friday 28th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER the House at this time. We shall to greet the Honourable Minister meet tomorrow in the morning. and thank him for being here with May I request Honourable us today. Let us start the business Members to remain behind while on today’s order paper. We shall we go and take off these robes so begin with the questions. that we can discuss tomorrow’s QUESTIONS FOR ORAL arrangements. Thank you. ANSWER ADJOURNMENT INSTALLATION OF FLOOD LIGHTS IN MASUNGA The House accordingly adjourned at 2:36 p.m. until KGOSI T. M. MASUNGA th Friday 28 June 2013 at 9.30 (NORTH EAST DISTRICT): a.m. asked the Minister of Local

th Government and Rural Friday 28 June, 2013 Development to explain what changed the scope of works of THE HOUSE met at 09:30 the flood lights scheduled to a.m. be installed in Masunga from (THE CHAIRPERSON in the 15 flood lights to 7 flood lights Chair) and why the change occurred when the District Development P R A Y E R S Committee, Finance Officer and * * * * the community have already been briefed. CHAIRMAN’S OPENING ASSISTANT MINISTER OF REMARKS LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND MR CHAIRMAN: Good RURAL DEVELOPMENT morning Honourable Members. (HON GABORONE): Mr I am well aware that some of Chairman, the change in scope you can run very fast however of works in the project for my request is that there are installation of flood lights in appropriate places where running Masunga was necessitated by the should take place and not in this inclusion of some essential items, House. Some of you only come trenching and cabling which had running in after the siren has been omitted from the bill of rung and it could happen that one quantities. Omitted components day you will lose your footing of the project were essential to and crash into the procession. On the functionality of the project. a different note, I would also like It was therefore necessary to 107 Friday 28th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER reduce the number of flood lights HONOURABLE from 15 to 7 to cater for omitted GABORONE: That is true cabling and trenching of the Kgosi. Our Ministry is one of project. The Masunga Village those which have been identified leadership and Council structures as being corruption prone. Some were consulted on reasons to of our professional consultants change in project scope. I thank are fond of doing things in a you, Sir. skewed manner, they seem to prefer taking bribes and that is KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank essentially why there is an anti- you Mr Chairman. I would like corruption unit in our Ministry. to know from the Minister if it I would like to request Dikgosi is in order for his planner to plan to bring forth information in the for 15 flood lights and later on form of questions like this one change to 7 after informing the on similar issues in their areas so community about it? that I can look into these matters and establish what could have HONOURABLE happened. Thank you. GABORONE: Thank you Kgosi. Your question is justified; APPEAL CASES IN the leadership is also concerned KGALAGADI DISTRICT about this practice of poor planning and anomalies surfacing KGOSI D.S. TOTO II after completion of projects. I (KGALAGADI SOUTH have however requested that REGION): asked the Minister I should be furnished with a of Local Government and Rural report that will shed light into Development to explain why the what could be the cause of these appeal cases in the Kgalagadi mishaps because it is not only the Masunga village that has District do not follow the normal experienced this. Thank you. route to the Customary Court of Appeal in the same manner as it KGOSI MASUNGA: applies in other Districts. Oftentimes, the Departments of Ministry of Local Government MINISTER OF LOCAL are implicated in cases of GOVERNMENT AND corruption. Do you not see this RURAL DEVELOPMENT as undermining the credibility (HON GABORONE): Thank and trust that people have on this you Honourable Chairman, the Ministry? How do you intend to Customary Courts Act Cap: correct this situation? 0405 at Section 42-1 states

108 Friday 28th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER that an appeal from any person Headman of Arbitration aggrieved by any order or for Manyanda ward in decision of a lower customary Masunga village; and court may within 30 days (ii) how long it has been since from the date of that order, or the relevant documents decision appeal thereon to a were submitted to his higher customary court or if office. there is no higher customary court to the Customary Court MINISTER OF LOCAL of Appeal. Since there is no GOVERNMENT AND Higher Customary Court in the RURAL DEVELOPMENT Kgalagadi District all appeals (HON GABORONE): Thank go straight to the Customary you Honourable Chairman. Court of Appeal. It must be The delay in the appointment noted however that one of the of Headman of Arbitration for amendments of the Customary Manyanda ward in Masunga Courts Act is to re-categorise village was caused by shortage customary courts. I therefore of staff which resulted in a hope that such an amendment, backlog but this has since been if approved by Parliament, will resolved. I wish to however state normalise the appeal’s process. that the appointment of Headman Thank you. of Manyanda was approved on the 11th of June. The relevant KGOSI TOTO II: I would documents were submitted to really appreciate it if things my office on the 20th of January could be that way. Thank you Mr 2013. Thank you. Chairman. KGOSI LEMPADI: Thank you DELAY IN APPOINTMENT Mr Chairman. I want to know OF HEADMAN OF from the Minister if they do not ARBITRATION IN realise that they make things MASUNGA difficult for us at those Dikgotla KGOSI T. M. MASUNGA when they delay to appoint such (NORTH EAST DISTRICT): Dikgosi because the people asked the Minister of Local would have long nominated their Government and Rural preferred replacement? Development to explain; HONOURABLE (i) what has caused the delay GABORONE: Mr Chairman, in the appointment of Kgosi’s comment came across as

109 Friday 28th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER a statement to me and perhaps it empty words since they are never would be better if he phrased it implemented. What happens on into a question. the ground is something entirely different and it happens across KGOSI LEMPADI: My all Ministries. I think it is very question is, does the Ministry important though to introspect not realise that their delays put and see if these are just empty us in a difficult position because words and if they are then people stay for four to six months perhaps they should be replaced without a Kgosi whilst they long by something else. I believe that nominated someone? in a number of months myself or Honourable Siele will come back HONOURABLE here to give you feedback on the GABORONE: Thank you attempts we would have made to Mr Chairman. Delays in resolve these issues. Thank you. implementation are costly in many ways. It is emotionally LANDLINE costly and it also costs the TELEPHONES IN TRIBAL community a lot of privileges ADMINISTRATION that they could be enjoying. We OFFICES have however started to ensure KGOSI D. S. TOTO II that things are done on time and I (KGALAGADI SOUTH do apologise for what transpired REGION): asked the Minister in the case of the Manyanda of Local Government and Rural Ward. Development; KGOSI MASUNGA: Mr (i) why landline telephones in Chairman, this issue has taken some offices in the Tribal almost seven months to be Administration are open to resolved. I would like to know call cell phones while some the Ministry’s set standards for in the same Department are appointment of Dikgosi. not; and

HOUNOURABLE (ii) does this imply that officers GABORONE: as we go around in whose lines cannot call cell our Tribal Administration offices phones are not responsible. they have the Department’s Vision, Mision as well as the MINISTER OF LOCAL turnaround time for different GOVERNMENT AND services. Those however, are just RURAL DEVELOPMENT 110 Friday 28th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER (HON GABORONE): Thank and it is not necessary for every you Mr Chairman. The opening officer to have it. It is possible of landline telephone to call for them to go and request to cell phones goes with the make calls to a cellphone from level of accountability and an office that has the open phone. authority of an officer in order It is not about the position; it is about making sure that there is to curb unreasonable excessive accountability and also to have telephone bills. This does not control on usage. imply that officers whose lines cannot call cell phones are not KGOSI TOTO II: Thank you responsible as they still have Mr Chairman. I would like the access to use landline telephones Honourable Minister to explain to call cell phones from the if he means that I should travel authorised officers. I thank you. that long distance to the Tribal Secretary’s office to make calls? KGOSI MACHILIDZA: Thank I am asking that because it is you Mr Chairman. I heard the the only office that has the open Minister talking about opening phone but it is so far from the of landline telephone to call Kgotla. cell phones going with the level of accountability and authority HONOURABLE of an officer. In this instance a GABORONE: Mr Chairman I Senior Chief does not have such would like to go and look further a phone in Kgalagadi South into this issue and ascertain whereas in the Central region the distance that Kgosi Toto is you will discover that Senior talking about. Chiefs have got open phones? MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Why is the situation different in Kgalagadi South whereas they KGOSI TOTO II: Thank you work for the same Government very much Mr Chairman. with similar standards? MR CHAIRMAN: I think the HONOURABLE Minister had wanted you to GABORONE: Mr Chairman, I specify that you need an open am unable to answer the question phone in your office specifically in the manner it has been posed since the available one is at an because it implies that there is an office far from the Kgotla. Ido element of discrimination. I want believe that the Minister has Kgosi to understand that there promised to look into it and are open phones in that region consider all circumstances.

111 Friday 28th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER PURCHASING TWO HONOURABLE TOYOTA PRADO STATION GABORONE: I wish for us WAGONS FOR DIKGOSI to acknowledge that there is a policy for boarding Government KGOSI T. M. MASUNGA assets. We cannot carry out such (NORTH EAST DISTRICT): an arrangement as it would asked the Minister of Local contravene the policy. Thank Government and Rural you. Development to consider KGOSI MACHILIDZA: I purchasing the two Toyota wanted to enquire from the Prado Station Wagons that are Minister if he does not deem it being auctioned by the North East District Council for use by reasonable to come up with that Dikgosi in the District through arrangement now that the state of our cluster system. the economy no longer permits purchasing of most things? ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND HONOURABLE RURAL DEVELOPMENT GABORONE: As I have already (HON GABORONE): Thank indicated, if the Policy permitted, you Honourable Chairman. My it would be easy for us to do Ministry would not consider that. However if we are coerced purchasing the two Toyota by the present situation to start Prado Station Wagons that are doing what may not be provided being auctioned by the North for in the policy then we might East District Council for the just end up with problems on our use by Clustering Department hands. The other option would made of Dikgosi, as we do not be to look into our coffers and have a provision in our votes see if there is something we can to purchase used vehicles. use to purchase vehicles for the However, my Ministry may department. consider the purchase of new KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank vehicles alongside other pressing you Mr Chairman. needs when funds permit. Thank you. PAYMENT OF OVERTIME TO OFFICERS DURING KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank WEEKENDS you. Honourable Minister what would be wrong with donating KGOSI T. M. MASUNGA the vehicles to the department of (NORTH EAST DISTRICT): Tribal Administration though? asked the Minister of Local 112 Friday 28th June, 2013 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER Government and Rural take it that communication shall Development to explain what be made if at all it has not been informed the Ministry to demand made yet. I would also like to other Ministries hosting events to emphasize that in Government, pay overtime to officers assisting every Ministry budgets for the Dikgosi during weekend Kgotla activities that it shall do in a meetings. particular financial year. That budget will include even the ASSISTANT MINISTER OF meetings that the Minister will LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND address. At times their budgets RURAL DEVELOPMENT impact on the budget of the (HON GABORONE): Thank Ministry of Local Government you Honourable Chairman. and Rural Development and The decision to demand other what we are saying is that Ministries hosting events to pay when the budgets are approved overtime to officers assisting they should take into account Dikgosi during weekend Kgotla all these to avoid making it the meetings is because those responsibility of Dikgosi and the activities were not budgeted Ministry. Thank you. for by my Ministry, thus can KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank cause over expenditure on the you Mr Chairman. Ministry’s side. Thank you. SALE OF ELECTRICITY KGOSI MASUNGA: I would AT BOTSWANA POWER like to have a copy of the CORPORATION savingram communicating such CHARLESHILL OFFICE an arrangement. Secondly, has this been communicated to all the KGOSI M. KAHIKO III Government Ministries? Lastly, (GHANZI WEST): asked the I would like to know if this Minister of Minerals, Energy and arrangement will not ultimately Water Resources why Botswana affect productivity or growth of Power Corporation (BPC) office departments as they might not in Charles hill does not sell be able to take messages to the electricity or receive connection public due to lack of funds. fee. HONOURABLE MR CHAIRMAN: It seems GABORONE: I am not in a like the Minister of Minerals, position at the moment to talk Energy and Water Resources is about the relevant Savingram. I not present. 113 Friday 28th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES Motion (Resumed Debate) KGOSI KAHIKO III: Thank however, there are times when you Mr Chairman. Since the one is compelled to run to avoid Minister has never showed up being in trouble. Mr Chairman, to answer this question I shall it has already been proven that have to keep deferring it until it the use of cell phones to spread is answered. messages can work. It is a good technology that enables us to do Question- deferred things faster and easier. I came to appreciate the value of the MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you Short Message Service (SMS) Kgosi Kahiko. Question 7 has at one point when I was invited been deferred to the next meeting. for a meeting facilitated by the With that we have concluded the Botswana Meat Commission question and answer session. (BMC). I was just sent a message COLLABORATION WITH that communicated all that was CELLULAR PHONE required of me and it really made COMPANIES things simple. Some departments are already doing it, so I advocate Motion that this should be something (Resumed Debate) that the leaders should encourage since it simplifies things. MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Yesterday when we adjourned We live in a country that was also we were still debating Kgosi affected by the recession and the Masunga’s motion and Kgosi Ministers emphasized that we Machilidza was still holding should inform the communities the floor. I believe he was the that we lead about it. This House Member who had indicated the was set up to advise Parliament desire to debate this motion. and therefore I believe that it is up to us to caution the Ministers KGOSI MACHILIDZA that their tours around the (BOTETI REGION): Thank country are on the increase lately. you Mr Chairman on this We are supposed to conserve the wonderful morning. I was little resources that we have. supposed to start my debate I believe that Kgosi Masunga yesterday but unfortunately came up with this motion to show time was not on our side. Mr that there are simpler and more Chairman, it is true that we economic ways of doing things. should come on time to the House As the public, we should be more

114 Friday 28th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES Motion (Resumed Debate) industrious, we cannot afford to meetings. Firstly, the fact of the be always at Dikgotla attending matter is that people pick and meetings. With ideas like this choose what meetings they want one that encourage the use of to attend. It does not mean that modern technologies, I believe they have not heard about the that strategies will be devised meeting. When Kgosi Puso calls and easier communication will a meeting to talk about general be taken up. A Minister could just issues affecting the community address people through the state only a handful will attend that television. Lastly, I would like meeting. If he calls a meeting to believe that we have said a lot about the plots, the Kgotla will on this issue and it can be closed be over-spilling because that is now. Thank you Mr Chairman. a subject close to their hearts. I take it that a similar thing would MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you occur if Kgosi Moremi was to Kgosi Machilidza. I agree with call a meeting just to update the you that a lot has been said and community and discuss general I shall now hand over to the issues however if it is about Minister to respond. Foot and Mouth disease the Kgotla would be full. What I am ASSISTANT MINISTER OF basically saying is that people LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND pick and choose meetings to go RURAL DEVELOPMENT to. For instance, when Kgosi (HON GABORONE): Thank Masunga wants to address people you Honourable Chairman. I about Domboshaba hills, as a listened attentively to Kgosi as Motlokwa residing in Masunga he presented his well-researched I would not be interested in motion. Mr Chairman, I would hearing about it. When Balete like to make preliminary remarks talk about Bojale and Bogwera before I answer. those in Taung and Boatle may MR CHAIRMAN: You are not even be interested however, permitted Honourable Minister. for Molete that means something. Having said this, if it does not go MR GABORONE: I think against the Rules of Procedure the motion is both futuristic, Mr Chairman, I am going to innovative and can be beneficial suggest that instead of rejecting to all of us. What I want to do the motion as it was earlier done I is to give some perspectives on would like to go back and prepare this issue of announcements of a different answer. I am saying 115 Friday 28th June, 2013 COLLABORATION WITH CELLULAR PHONE COMPANIES Motion (Resumed Debate) this because at times we come up had potential, might have been with answers already prepared refused because the Honourable without having listened to the Ministers might have come with presentations. After listening answers before listening to the to this, I realized that we may presentations of the motions. I ‘throw away the baby with bath agree with the Minister that the water’ as the English normally motion is futuristic. It is also true say. Therefore Mr Chairman, let that members of the community me answer it directly and say pick and choose the messages that my Ministry does appreciate they want to go and listen to at the the need to be innovative by Kgotla. What we are suggesting engaging the usage of modern though is that there should be a technology to announce Kgotla structure that gives everybody meetings. That notwithstanding, equity at choosing what they we humbly request for the want to listen to. Through the motion to be deferred in order SMS, the probability of people to allow us to constructively missing the important calls consult on the possible for meetings will be reduced. modalities of collaboration with In concluding Mr Chairman, relevant companies and affected I would like to emphasize parties. This will give us all the that the cell phone companies opportunity to make an informed in Botswana are looking for decision on the matter. I thank penetration into the markets. you Sir. Villages have big populations and therefore through this MR CHAIRMAN: Thank the companies can be able to you Honourable Minister. Let even establish where they can me now give the opportunity expand looking at the trends in to Kgosi Masunga to make a the market. I agree with Kgosi response to the debate. Mosadi that we need to protect KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank the Kgotla system otherwise one you Mr Chairman. I would day we will be buying books like to thank all those who and attending seminars that talk contributed to this debate and about our system. My request thank the Minister for the sincere is that the Ministry should not way in which he responded. He take too long to look into this actually taught us something motion because it can assist big today because he has shown us Ministries like this one. With that most of the motions that those reasons Mr Chairman, 116 Friday 28th June, 2013 REVIEWING THE COMPOSITION OF THE REGIONAL ELECTORAL COLLEGE - Motion I thank the Government and Motion – Deferred. Dikgosi who took part in the debate and all those who did not. MR CHAIRMAN: With that Honourable Members it means MR CHAIRMAN: Thank that what we had planned to you Kgosi Masunga. With do on this day ends here. We those words I believe that have come to the end of the we have come to the end of 12th Meeting of the 2nd Ntlo Ya Kgosi Masunga’s motion. Dikgosi and I believe that in the The Honourable Minister has 3 weeks that we have been here responded and he has requested we managed to grasp a lot of that they are still going to look useful information. We started into it. We shall now vote on it. at Pandamatenga where we Question put and agreed to. visited the farms in order to see how our country is performing MR CHAIRMAN: This then with regards to farming. Last means that the motion passes week we had briefings where we even though it is still going to be met with different departments looked into as he clearly stated and discussed the policies and that it is a futuristic motion. I programs as well as the new believe that the Ministry shall developments that have come look into it and also consult the about. This week we dealt relevant stakeholders. with the House Business, we INTRODUCTION OF TAX attended to the questions and LEVY TO THE CASINO motions brought to the House. CONTROL BOARD I therefore believe that all that Motion we had aspired to do in these 3 weeks has served a purpose (Kgosi Masunga – North East) to us as Members and I believe that when we leave here we are Motion – Deferred. going to be valued advisors in REVIEWING THE different administrations, in our COMPOSITION OF THE communities and the nation at REGIONAL ELECTORAL large. Although I mentioned COLLEGE our achievements, we still have pending matters before Motion us. Please note the Minister of Local Government and Rural (Kgosi Seeletso – Tonota Region) Development’s request that we 117 Friday 28th June, 2013 REVIEWING THE COMPOSITION OF THE REGIONAL ELECTORAL COLLEGE - Motion should address our communities counterparts to attend the House. regarding livestock which We had an opportunity to meet destroy fields. When we come with the Leader of the House the back in the next session, we Vice President last week Friday. should have ideas or possible We are still awaiting feedback solutions on this matter. I want regarding some of the issues that to believe that we shall embark I have just alluded to including on this issue as soon as we get non-attendance of Ministers to back to our respective areas. I respond to questions. I have faith also want to remind the Members that we shall not give up and that we have an upcoming event, we shall not be deterred just as the culture day scheduled for one English author once wrote October or November. Our input that “Tough times never last, is needed for the programme of but tough people do.” We shall the day. This will assist us to do continue to represent what this something different and better House was established for even if it is hard but as the Christians than what we displayed last year. normally say, it shall come to As for the questions and pass. I believe that someday motions; we tried our best but things will happen the way this as usual, we were not able to House wishes for them to happen. finish them. The remaining ones We shall continue to raise these shall be attended to in the next issues so that eventually the meeting. It is however not our House is able to play the advisory wish to keep on deferring the role that is according to the business to the next meetings Constitution. I wish to thank all but it always happens because those who contributed in the last some Ministers do not show up three weeks especially the Ntlo to answer the questions. There Ya Dikgosi staff simply because is one Ministry whose questions our job is to send the questions and motions were all deferred and motions and they edit them and that is a draw back. Some of and ensure that they are of the the questions and motions need standard expected by the House. to be attended to at the particular They took the time to arrange time at which they are submitted, for the Pandamatenga trip up otherwise they will be overtaken to the briefings last week and by events. I do however believe eventually this week when we that the Ministers who are here dealt with the House business. shall continue to urge their I also thank the Parliament staff

118 Friday 28th June, 2013 REVIEWING THE COMPOSITION OF THE REGIONAL ELECTORAL COLLEGE - Motion who ensured that the House is in this House however this time order in terms of the equipment around you were present the that we use. I would also like to entire week. That is something thank the Minister for spending that we should be grateful for the time with us yesterday and indeed. Lastly, I would like to today without fail as well as all thank the Media, especially the the other Ministers who attended Government media, for their the House this week to respond continued presence and taking the issues to the nation. It is a to the questions and motions commendable effort on their posed in the House. part. We cannot lead a song The other issue that makes me and sing the chorus at the same to be particularly grateful to the time therefore; I believe that the Minister is the way he answered media assists in taking our views some of the questions here to the nation so that they know because the truth needs to be told. what is being discussed in this This issue of the Vision, Mission House. Honourable Members, and Values that are hardly put Bogosi is one institution that is into action is worrisome indeed. very important in this country. I When people set standards for believe that Kgosi Boiditswe’s themselves they have to make motion where he proposed that sure that they conform to them. Dikgosi should take an oath I also believe we should ensure gave us an opportunity to remind that the implementation of ourselves of what Bogosi is standards is indeed taking place. about and the purpose it was That will help us to address meant to serve in the country. issues and move on to new ones. We have been blessed with this The other point that I commend gift of the Bogosi institution and you for is your honesty in as Dikgosi we are the ones who pointing out to Kgosi Masunga can develop it or totally destroy that sometimes you come with it. With all these motions that responses even before listening we bring to the House, I would to the presentations and you like us to consider Bogosi in its end up at times not accepting entirety and realise what a big some of the suggestions that institution it is. We still have a could be helpful. I would also challenge of showing the youth like to thank the Parliamentary what Bogosi is all about. One Council (PC).We at times spend Member expressed yesterday long periods without you in that if people can come from 119 Friday 28th June, 2013 REVIEWING THE COMPOSITION OF THE REGIONAL ELECTORAL COLLEGE - Motion afar to benchmark on the Bogosi Honourable Minister and all system and the Kgotla system those who contributed in this in our country, then we have a meeting as well as Mr Moitobo precious gem in our hands even from the Tribal Administration though we do not recognise its Department. I believe that you value. If we can appreciate what were representing your superiors we have and perhaps package it and you shall relay all that has in a way that it is supposed to been discussed here to them be, then we can transform our so that they can be attended to. country and take it forward. I With those words the House is have faith that even the doubting adjourned sine die. Thomas would end up believing ADJOURNMENT in this institution. The House accordingly If a white man can come from adjourned at 10:16 a.m. sine die. the Netherlands to benchmark about the Kgotla and actually write a book about it and also depict how the Kgotla can assist in solving industrial disputes, we may find ourselves losing Bogosi to foreign nations. We might lose it like we did with the Hoodia plant that was discovered here but is making money elsewhere for other people. As we go about our daily duties in the villages, we should think about what our position is with regards to the Bogosi institution. I believe that Bogosi has a place in future and it is up to us as Dikgosi to ensure that it gets there. With those words we have come to the end of our meeting and the last announcement is that, as agreed yesterday, let us meet here after tea to discuss few things before we break for lunch. Thank you

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