1.1OUS1 or `x-EYs, OCTOBER 24, 1939.

Certain Douglas bakers, for instance, Mr Hampton: The English Govern- have to take out licences in five or six ment already control supplies of butter parishes, which is a very great nuisance and tea, so there must be rationing now. to everybody. It is simply copying what has been done in England. If they had Mr Craine; There need not be ration- made the area the sheading instead of ing of the stuff which we ourselves pro- the parish, it would not have been so in- duce. convenient. The resolution was put and carried, no Mr Alfred Teare: As regards what has member calling "No." been said by the hon. member for Peel, The Speaker: May I say that the reso in my own case the damage has been lution has been carried unanimously? • done. As a result of this registration, the people concerned have stopped The House adjourned to the sitting making butter. of-Tynwald on Tuesday, October 31st.

TYNWALD COURT.

Douglas, Tuesday, October 31, 1939.

Present: The Governor (Vice-Admiral policies lapsing, with consequent serious the Right Hon. the Earl Granville, C.B., losses to the insured persons and their D.S.0.). In the Council: The Lord dependents? Bishop, Deemsters Farrant and Cowley, The Governor: In reply to the hon. the Attorney-General, Messrs R. B. member's question, I have to state that Quirk, J. R. Corrin, F. S. Dalgleish, C. the subject to which he refers is Gill, and R. C. .Cain (Receiver-General), receiving attention. with Mr B. E. Sargeaunt, Government Secretary and Clerk to the Council. In the Keys: The Speaker (Mr J. D. Qual- COMMUNICATION FROM UNEM- trough, J.P.), Messrs T. A. Quayle, PLOYED MEN—QUESTION BY Robert Kneen, J. F. Crellin, T. H. Kneen, MR ALFRED TEARE. D. J. Teare, A, J. Cottier, W. K. Cowin, Mr Alfred Teare asked the Lieutenant- J. H. L. Cowin, T. Clucas, E. W. Fargher, Richard Kneen, W. A. Kelly, J. J. McArd, Governor: Whether His Excellency has Mrs Shimmin, Messrs W. H. Alcock, s. received any communication from the Norris, A. E. Kitto, E. Q. Hampton, A. J. unemployed, and, if so, what steps are Teare, and W. C. Craine, with Mr R. G. being taken to give effect to the sug- Johnson, Acting-Secretary and Clerk to gestions contained in such communica- Tynwald. tion? The Governor replied: A communica- INDUSTRIAL ASSURANCE POLICIES tion was received on the 18th October. OF SERVICEMEN.—QUESTION BY 1939, and the matters raised therein MR ALCOCK. have been referred to the authorities concerned. Mr Alcock asked the Lieutenant- • Governor: (a) Have any steps been Mr J. H. L. Cowin: Would the hon. taken to keep in force the industrial member for South Douglas state to the assurance policies of soldiers and Court what were the contents of the sailors now serving in His Majesty's communication? Forces; (b) if not, would he appoint a Mr Alfred Teare: The suggestions small commission to examine and re- were that work should be spread over, port, as there is a grave danger of these so as to give work to as many men as

Industrial Assurance Policies of Servicemen—Qtiestion by Mr Alcock.---Communi- cation from Unemployed Men—Question by Mr Alfred Team. I4 TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 31, 1939. possible; that the amount of unemploy- received very sympathetically and not ment pay should be increased; and that without considerable interest, because the . system folleWed by the Highway the same financial problems have arisen Board in deferring part of the first pay also in certain parts of the United should be rectified, so that a man should Kingdom: I learn that a committee is receive his fun_ wages at the end of the already dealing with the subject, and as week. soon as the report of that committee Mr Norris: Your Excellency says the has been made known, I propose, after questions were referred to the authori- the necessary local consultations, to take ties concerned. Would you indicate to steps for dealing with our local problems what authorities the questions were in the manner best suited to the situa- referred—the question of "spread-over," tion. I feel, however, that it is desirable for instance? to await the report of the committee to which I have referred, before coming to The Governor: The employing authori- final conclusions, in case anything in ties. that report may be desirable for adoption Mr Alfred There: Does that mean that here. With regard to the civil liabilities the question has been referred to them of men who have joined His Majesty's on the lines recommended by the Public Forces, authority has recently been Works Commission -three years ago, that given for the augmentation of a man's the men who "stood down" should re- allowances in approved cases, and I am ceive standing down pay, a fixed pay- causing to be obtained the necessary ment during that period of a fortnight, particulars of this scheme so that men so that they should not have to go to the who join from the will be Guardians for relief? made aware of it, This excess payment will, of course, be made from Army Mr Norris: May I suggest that the funds, and will apply alike to men who question of "spread-over" is one for the have joined from the United Kingdom Consultative Committee of the House of and from the Isle of Man. I also made Keys, or for the Keys and Council? It personal contacts with several other involves a question of principle. Government departments, and I hope imagine that the local authorities cannot that the result of this will be of benefit work this question out without a pre- to the Island. I am not at present able vious decision of this Court. to divulge in what way., Since I made The Governor: I will see first what the my last statement on Imperial legisla- employing authorities recommend. tion which extends to the Isle of Man, Mr Norris: But they turned this pro- I have to notify Tynwald that the posal down first, and we have had very Trading with the Enemy Act, an Act of little help. I think this is a matter for the Imperial Parliament, now operates the Unemployment Advisory Committee, in the Isle of Man, and a Government if you like, rather than the local authori- circular has been issued notifying ties, so as to get the matter brought traders, shipowners, and others that it before the Court. is unlawful to transact business or to have other dealings with enemies with- out official permission. Further particu- WAR EMERGENCY SITUATION IN lars on the subject may be obtained ISLE OF MAN.—STATEMENT from Government Office. I would like BY GOVERNOR. to conclude this very brief statement by The Governor: I am glad to be in a intimating that I am doing everything position to state that since Tynwald last possible to stimulate local industries in sat I have been able to make personal directions most useful for the furthering contact with the Home Secretary regard- of the war, and I am not without hope ing the situation which will arise in the that my efforts may meet with some Isle of Man in the event of the war success at no very distant date. extending over next year. The repre- The Speaker: May I say, sir, and I sentations which I have made on the think I shall be speaking on behalf of subject to Sir John Anderson were every member of the Court, what great

War Emergency Situation in Isle of Man—Statement by Governor, TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 31, 1939. 115 satisfaction it gives the Isle of Man to man, perhaps a retired paymaster, could hear of your Excellency's efforts, and he appointed to administer the payments that we all hope that they will be in respect of Manx servicemen. It crowned with success. would ease the burden to a certain ex- Mr. Hampton: Are these additional tent. The Manx Government could pay, soldiers' allowances provided for by and let the Treasury reimburse them. existing machinery, or will fresh legisla- The Governor: These payments will tion be necessary? be made by the War Office. If they are found insufficient, it might be up to Tyn- The Governor: What happens at wald to vote additional moneys. it present is this: The man who has civil would be our own Insular affair. Other- liabilities, as in some cases which we wise, and on the present scale, the pay- know, gets a form from his paymaster ments will be made from the War Office. and fills it up. It goes up to a certain committee in London, who send it back Mr Norris: It might be done through to the Isle of Man for our investigation, a local committee. verification and confirmation. It then goes back to the War Office, and the amount is paid. The amount at present ANNOUNCEMENT OF ROYAL allowed is a maximum of 22, besides the ASSENT TO ACT. pay, but inclusive of his present separa- The Governor announced to Tynwald, tion allowances. in accordance with the terms of section Mr Hampton: Does that include the of the Acts of Tynwald (Emergency separation allowances? Promulgation) Act, 1916, that the Royal The Governor: It is exclusive of Assent was given to the undermentioned his pay, an addition to his pay. A pri- Act on the 5th October, 1939: inc vate will get 14s per week, and will get Charitable Collections (Regulation) Act, separation allowances to a maximum 1939. of £2. Mrs Shimmin: Does that apply to all BILLS SIGNED. servicemen? The following Bills were submitted for The Governor: Yes, if they can show signature: (1) The School Teachers' that they have civil liabilities to that Superannuation (War Service) Bill; (2) extent. the House of Keys (Removal of Dis- "Ir Norris: Is there a local committee qualification) Bill; (3) the Hire Purchase tlu3ugh whom the application will be Bill; (4) the Local Government (Fires) Bill; (5) the Administration of. Justice made? (Emergency Provisions) Bill. The Governor: That will be done, I think, by the War Pensions Committee. They are the most suitable people. PAPERS LAID BEFORE THE COURT. Mr Norris: And anyone approaching —QUESTION ON THE SOUTHERN the local committee can get information WATER SCHEME. and assistance? . The Governor: I have the honour to The Governor: So far as the Manx lay the following before the Court— Territorials are concerned, I will make Provisional Order made by the Local it known to Colonel MacClellan, and he Government Board on the 4th August, will let them know. Reservists will 1939, establishing a Water Board for the receive the information through the town of Castletown, the villages of Port official channels. Erin and Port St. Mary, and the parishes Mr Norris: The local committee are of , , , and . authorised to give assistance? Mr J. H. L. Cowin: I desire to ask the responsible member of this Court what The Governor: They will investigate, expenditure is involved in this scheme. and verify the claims. If I have an assurance from the hon. Mr Alcock: I was wondering if a local member in charge, I shall be satisfied.

Announcement of Royal Assent to Act—Bills Signed.—Papers laid before the Court.—Question on the Southern Water Scheme. jiG TYNWALD COURT, ocTO.bER 31, 1939.

PAPERS LAID BEFORE THE COURT: SOUTHERN WATER BOARD— MILITARY SERVICE REGULATIONS. PROVISIONAL ORDER. HOUSE OF KEYS ADJOURNS TO ITS OWN CHAMBER. The Attorney-General: 1 beg to niove: That the provisional order, dated the 4th The Governor continued to read the August, 1934, made by the Local Government list of papers laid before the Court, as Board under the Water (Supply) Atte, 1929 to follows:— 1936, constituting and establishing a Water Regulations made by His Excellency Board for the town of Castletown, the villages the Lieutenant-Gavernor on the 27th day of and Port St. Mary, and the parishes of Malew, Arbory, Rushen, and of October, 1939, entitled The National Saigon be and the same is hereby approved. Service (Armed Forces) (Miscellaneous) (Isle of Man) Regulations, 1939," and This is an Order which has to be ap- "The National Service (Armed Forces) proved by the Court. I think public (Prevention of Evasion) Regulations notice has been given, and parties (Isle of Man), 1939." interested have been informed that they are entitled to appear in opposition. Schedule of Reserved Occupations made by His Excellency the Lieutenant- Mr G. D. W. Ashton, advocate, ap- Governor for the purposes of the peared on behalf of the Castletown Town National Service (Armed Forces) Act, Commissioners. 1939. Mr .1. H. L. Cowin: May I ask the Interim report, dated 17th October, Attorney-General, as a member of your 1939, of the War Emergency Committee Excellency's Council, what is the ex- of Tynwald. penditure involved? Report, dated 9th October, 1939, oi the The Attorney-General: I am afraid we Committee of Tynwald appointed to con- have not got that. We are just about to sider an application for financial assist- appoint this board. ance for the Buchan School. Mr J. H. L. Cowin: When you have Isle of Man (Customs) Acts—The im- reached that item on the agenda. I will port Duties (Exemptions) (No. 7) (Isle ask the question again. of Man) Order, 1939. (Government Mr H. R.. Gelling appeared as a rate- Circular No. 2041.) payer in Castictown and as a noticed The Speaker: I desire to crave your party; and Mr Charles Cameron ap- Excellency's indulgence for a moment. peared as representing the owners The orocedure adopted with reference to Ballagilbert Farm, Malew, who are la the . iational Service (Armed Forces) owners of water rights in the Silverbinn regulations, and the National Service river. (Armed Forces) Prevention of Evasion regulations, seems to raise a ques- The Attorney-General: I formally move tion of some seriousness. The the resolution, and it can be formally House is asked to approve regula- seconded. Then the parties can be tions which it has seen this morn- heard, and afterwards the resolution can ing, laid on members' desks, for the be proceeded with. first time. We have also on our desks a Deemster Farrant seconded. schedule of reserved occupations, which we see for the first time, and apparently Mr Ashton: On behalf of the Castle- they are not submitted for the approval town Commissioners, 1 wish to refer the of the Court. I have been in consulta- Court to clause 19 of the Order, dealing tion with the members of the House, and with the power to levy a rate. This pro- I am authorised to say that the House vides that the rate shall not exceed 2s 9d views this procedure with a considerable in the E on the rateable value, of amount of anxiety, and wishes to discuss premises in the village districts of Port in private, in its own chamber, the Erin and Port St. Mary, the parish of position which has arisen. Therefore I Rushen, and part of the parish of move that the House adjourn to its own Arbory; and shall not exceed 2s Gd in the chamber. E on premises in the town of Castletown. the parishes of Malew and Santori, and The Governor adjourned the Court the remainder of the parish of Arbory. until 2-30 p.m. The attitude of the Castletown Commis- The Court resumed at 3 p.m. sioners at the public inquiry was that

Military Service Regulations.—House of Keys adjourns to its own Chamber.— Southern Water Board—Provisional Order. TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 31, 1939. 117 they are prepared to agree to a maxi- word "camps," should be deleted, and mum rate of 2s 3d in the notwith- the word "and" inserted between standing that they feel that they are "hotels" and "camps." being asked to make a sacrifice without Mr Crellin; That is St,. any compensation therefor. The Rushen rate is to be reduced from 2s lid to A Member: How old is the Castletown 25 9d, and that on part of Colby from water system? cici to 2s 9d. Malew is paying 2s 6d Mr Ashton; If there is a concealed already. Castletown, which has never suggestion that there is anything wrong paid a higher rate than 2s, is now asked with the pipes at Castletown, no evi- to pay 2s 6d. In the first instance, the dence to 'bear it out was given at the Local Government Boarddid not seem inquiry. inclined to accede to the request that Castletown should be treated in any way The Attorney-General: Still, you differently from the other places; but might' answer the hon. member's ques- after an adjournment, they agreed that tion, "How old is your system?" Rushen and Arbor), should be rated at Mr Ashton: That is not the point. The 2s 9d, and Castletown, Malcw and San- question is whether the supply is all ton at 2s 6d. Our attitude is still that, right. having proved that we are making the The Attorney-General: Still, the point greatest sacrifice of any concerned, and may arise of when you will have to re- the principle of graduated rating ad- new your system. vocated by us having been recognised, then, to do the thing consistently, Mr Ashton: I understand that the Castletown should be rated at 2s 3d at Castletown Water Act, under which the the outside. What is Castletown to re- supply is given, is dated 1857. ceive for this extra (id in the Z? There Mr Crellin: I would like to ask is a plentiful supply at present; evidence learned counsel whether or not it is the was given that there had never been a fact that a number of persons in Castle- shortage over a long period of years. town have been advised by medical prac- Oii the question of filtration, which was titioners to boil their water—not that the one of the benefits held out as an incen- water is impure, but it has not been tive to agree with the extra rate, the treated. Commissioners have been told by com- petent authorities that it was not Mr Ashton: May I ask a counter necessary to set up a filtration plant. question? If this was within the know- ledge of the chairman of the Local Gov- Deemster Farrant: Can you give us ernment Board, why was it not put to the rateable value of Castletown? the witnesses at the public inquiry? The whole object of a public inquiry is Mr Ashton: Not at the moment. I that people concerned should be enabled will briefly sum up. The attitude of the Castletown Commissioners is that in to be present, and be given information. spite of the fact that they feel that they Mr Crellin: This matter has only are giving something and receiving arisen recently. nothing, they are prepared to agree to Mr S. J. Kneale, advocate: I appear an increase of threepence, but they don't for the Castletown Waterworks Co., by feel that it is justifiable or fair that they whom Castletown is at present supplied. should be asked to pay 2s 6d in the The Town Commissioners are only in- when in the past they have never paid terested in the matter because it is now more than 2s for a perfectly satisfactory proposed to form a Southern Water supply. Board. I suggest that any questions re- Mr Hampton: Is it their own supply? lating to the Castletown Waterwork3 Company should be answered by me and Mr Ashton: No, it is supplied by the not by counsel for the Commissioners. Castletown Waterworks Company. In clause 19, it was agreed at the inquiry, The Attorney-General: The only and I take it that the matter has not question is, How old the system is? been forgotten, that the words in the Mr Kneale: The Castletown Water- second line, "and premises," after the works Co. was instituted in 1857, and

Southern Water Board—Provisional Order, lig TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 31, 1989. during that time there has been a de- connection with this supply. With re- veloping supply which has at all times gard to the age of the pipes, that is been found adequate for its purpose. purely a matter for the Castletown When necessary, the pipeline has been Waterworks company. The company increased, and within the last four years has been in existence since 1857, and special treatment of the pipes, by com- the directors are business men, and con- petent English contractors, was under- duct the company in a businesslike taken, with the result that our present manner. If anything goes wrong with concern is in full working order, and the pipes, it is their duty to make it able to perform its duties for a great right. I take it that as business men, number of years to come. With regard they have a sinking fund, and they will to the question just asked by the chair- be ready, at any time when a pipe shows man of the Local Government Board, I decrepitude, to renew it. The inhabi- put in analyses by the Public Analyst of tants of Castletown have no hesitation in the water in Castletown for many years continuing under the company which past. I informed the Local Govern- has served them in the past eighty ment Board that at no time was there years. We have nothing to gain by an adverse report; in fact, we proved this change; if it takes place, it will that the official statements showed a have been forced upon us. We haven't standard of water for domestic use asked for it, and we are opposing it. higher than in perhaps the majority of Members may say, "If Castletown is op- water supplies in the Isle of Man. There posing it, why are you the only rate- can be no question about the suitability payer who is here to raise his voice in of the present supply. opposition?" The answer is that the inhabitants of Castletown have been The Attorney-General: Does your treated extremely well by the Water- company oppose the Order? works Company; they don't fear any Mr Kneale: No, but I am answering trap that they might be induced to fall these particular questions. into, and they have no apprehension with regard to their water supply for Mr J. H. L. Cowin: May I ask one the future. If you ask the majority of 01: the learned gentlemen who appear the people of Castletown whether there what is the capital expenditure in- is likely to be a change in the supply of volved? water to their town, they will tell you Deemster Cowley: I can tell you that that they know nothing about it. No in a moment. I will give you all the body from Castletown attended this figures. inquiry, so far as I know, except my- self and members of the Commissioners. Mr J. H. L. Cowin: More than They place implicit trust in this com- £50,000? pany, which has done well for them in The Governor: You will be given your the past, and they don't fear that it will information shortly. let them down in the future. I have nothing to say in opposition to the Mr H. R. Gelling: With regard to the scheme itself. I think it is an ex- question asked by the chairman of the tremely good scheme, so far as I am able Local Government Board, I am in about to judge, and it will benefit the South of the best position of anyone here to the Island when it comes into operation answer it. I have been a water drinker, —that is. if the rates in the district are to a small extent—(laughter)—for the not unduly raised. I can say without past sixty years, and I was never ad- fear of contradiction that the only vised to boil it before drinking. reason for this scheme is that there has, Mr Alcock: 'How did you sterilise it? at times, been a shortage of water in the. (Laughter.) Rushen district. It is a growing dis- trict, and it caters for the visiting in- Mr Gelling: As to the quality of the dustry, and it has been recognised by water, it has never been found fault everyone that if that district suffers with officially; I don't ever remember— because of a shortage of water, the and I was connected with the Local whole Island will be affected—because, Government Board for thirty years— goodness knows what rumours will get any adverse report being received in about. I think that is the only reason

Southern Water Board—Provisional Order. TYNWALb COURT, OCTOBER 3i, i93. ii6 why the Local Government Board have Well now, the revenue of the Rushen taken this matter up. Well now, when district is going to be very much less, they did take it up, they looked around because the rate is going to be only and said, "Where is the increased 29 9d, and the present rate, in some water supply to come from, for this dis- parts of the district, is as much as 3s 9d. trict that is threatened with shortage?" There is a deficiency rate in that dis- And they found there was no increased trict, and if that is so, it shows a loss source of supply in the area of the on that part of the scheme alone. There Rushen Water Board itself. I think will be a profit by the acquisition of the that that statement will go without con- Malew undertaking, because Malew is tradiction. They found that the only going to be rated at 2s 6d, whereas it is available source was in our district, the 2s now. district of Castletown. So, arrange- ments were made to take over our Mr Crellin: Last year it was 2s 4d, I water. Well, if they take over our think. water without any increased storage ac- Mr Gelling: Anybody who Mows any- commodation, they will find still that thing about the Malew undertaking there is not sufficient—or at all events, there is a reasonable expectation that at knows that as development takes place some time or another there may be a in that district, and more rateable value shortage. The only answer to that is to becomes available, the rate, if you leave construct a huge reservoir to impound it alone, will gradually decrease. With our water, and make it available for the regard to the Castletown undertaking, South of the Island. Malew are in a nobody knows what is going to happen. very happy position; they have had a It has to be acquired from the company supply working for some years, and by .arbitration, and we don't know what they got very good terms from the Gov- price will have to be paid for it. We ernment, and are quite content to go on. can say, at all events, that the new board They have an excellent supply of will get no profit on it. Then, we have water, and if the district develops the whole cost of the construction of the to any extent, all they have to proposed new storage accommodation. do is to provide slightly increased And unless we know that there is going storage accommodation. They don't ex- to be Government assistance that will pect that that will cot, them very much, cover that, it appears to me that we are or. that it will happen, in the .very near running a great risk if the scheme is future. What I say is this: I don't think passed. Do the members of Tynwald it fair that Castletown, which is quite know that a proposition of this sort will content with the status quo—Malew is not mean a tremendous outlay of public in the same position—should have to money? If they don't know, it is about bear an increased burden merely to time they did. I don't know—we haven't benefit the Rushen district. At the in- been supplied with figures, so I cannot quiry, questions were asked as to what tell—what the expected cost is; but it is this scheme was going to cost; and we a huge scheme that is in contemplation, got very little information. . We also together with a filtration plant and so asked where the money was to come on, and we know the cost of Such things from, and we got less information still. in other districts, and know that it will It is obvious to anybody that the scheme he very considerable. My fear is that cannot be a success; it cannot function in the future, when this new board at all unless it gets very ciinsiderable are functioning and rind themselves Government assistance. Even on the faced with tremendous outlay, and hot money which the new Water Board is receiving sympathetic attention from the going to pay for the Rushen water Government, they will say, We will undertaking, without any eXpenditure have to apply for an alteration in this on storage accommodation, the schente Order," and they will come to the Local cannot support itself. The new board is Government Board, and the Local Gov- going to pay the Rushen Water Board ernment Board will make an amending the amount of its present liabilities, and order increasing the rate now leviable_ take the undertaking over as it stands. That is what we are afraid of, and I

Southern. Water l3oard—Provisional Order. 120 TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 31, 1939. think we should have some assurance he was the only person present, with the that such a thing will not be done. Commissioners. Otherwise, if I went round on the The Speaker: We knew that the Com- people of Castletown with a petition missioners were offering strenuous op- which said they were going to be made position, and we left it at that, with a to pay a sixpenny rate more than at very fair Local Government Board. present, Itt hile in the future there would Charles Cameron, Ballagilbert, Arbory: probably be a liability for another I had water rights below this immense shilling or two shillings, I would get reservoir that is to be erected. People every person in the town to sign in in the same position say these have been opposition. I submit that there ought in existence for two or three hundred to be a pause. Consideration of the years, and I would like to know how question should be adjourned till after our rights are ho be safeguarded the war, because we don't even know Deemster Cowley: Section 23 covers what present estimat& of cost they have that. been given, and whether the work can be carried out for that money. We are Deemster Farrant: Section 23 reads:— (1) The owners and occupiers of any mills or in such an uncertain state at the present other hereditaments making use of water for time that I submit that the matter power or income-producing purposes whose ought not to be proceeded with. water rights are injuriously affected tinder this Order shall he compensated on the fol- Deemster Farrant: Your objection is lowing basis not just that the 2s 6d should be 2s 3d, (a) As to tenants; The extent to which the but to the whale scheme? annual value of the mill or other here- ditament will be reduced by the abstrac- Mr Gelling: I think the scheme in it- tion of water during the currency of any self is an extremely good one. existing lease, a yearly tenancy being considered as a tenancy for one year; The Attorney-General: It is a bene- (b) As to owners: The extent to which the ficial scheme to the South of the Island. annual rental of the mill or other here. I gather from your argument that it is ditament will be reduced by the abstrac- simply a matter of a 3d rate. tion of water at a sum not exceeding 25 years purchase, less the period of any Mr Gelling : Simply a matter of existing lease; finance. We are helping this other dis- (c) Ae to owner-occupiers; The extent to trict. There is the acquisition of the which the annual value of the mill or mill rights, so that part of the district other hereditament will be reduced by the abstraction of water at a, stun not can be supplied with water. exceeding 25 years' purchase. Deemster Cowley: At the Government That seems quite a reasonable sugges- expense. tion to meet your view. Mr Gelling: I admit that; but It is Mr Crellin: I take it that his case will our water. be covered in the watering of cattle. Deemster Farrant: What you are ask- Mr Cameron: I don't quite know ing is that the rate should be limited to where I am, but in dry weather we 2s 3d instead of 2s 6d. would be in a very bad state, and I can't Mr Gelling: If you ask me what 1 see how a few pounds or anything like could agree to, I would agree to that; that is going to help us. but I am afraid of the future. I am Mr Crellin: There are various ways of afraid that in the future the Government providing compensation, either by free may not provide a portion of the costs, water, by means of troughs, or other and that we will be left to hold the baby, ways. Hundreds of cases have been and that we will have no opportunity of dealt with throughout the Island. voting against it. What is the good of Mr Cameron: May I ask how the holding a public inquiry if people are owners who got water from Awin going to haire their objections cast aside? Vitehell river were compensated? The Attorney-General: "People" in this Mr Crellin: They have not been com- case seem to be Mr Gelling. pensated yet. Mr J. H. L. Cowin: Oh, no. Mr Cameron: Perhaps not, but they The Attorney-General: He told us that have the promise of compensation.

Southern Water Board—Provisional Order,

TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 31, 1939. • 121

Mr Crellin: They will all be attended as there was some difficulty in meeting to in due course. the wishes of persons who are in the Mr Cameron: It is a very easy way main dependent on the Castletown out. We are a minority, we admit, but water supply. It was felt that Rushen, we want fair treatment as much as any- at that time, were getting away with body else. We can't go on in a dry 6c1, and it was not fair that 6d should year. We are not likely to keep any be added to the rates in Castletown. We cattle if our water is gone, and we have rather agreed in a way, and we amended to bear it. the order so that ratepayers in Rushen The Attorney-General: As soon as the should approximately have a reduction Board is formed, if they want to inter- of 2d, Castletown should be increased by fere with your water rights they have to 6d, and Malew increased by 2d on last approach you and the other owners. year's rates. I believe that this year If they don't come to an arrangement the rate is cut down to 2s in Malew, but they have to buy you out, either by con- it is .a varying quantity year by year. It necting your tanks with the reservoir so is 2s 6d in Castletown and Malew and that you have a supply far better than 2s 9d in Rushen, with power to levy a you ever had, or make other satisfactory deficiency rate if necessary. That is arrangements. It has been done hun- perfectly fair. Castletown must -remem- dreds of times, and it has been done in ber that some two or three years ago every other case they were relieved of the burden of the Mr Cameron: Thank you for saying mill-owners. The cost of that was paid that. I was afraid that we would be in entirely by this Court, no position whatever to ask for com- The Speaker: What was that? pensation or anything if this was passed. I thought we would have no say in the Mr Crellin: The mill-owners had a cer- tain hold over the company. matter. The Attorney-General: No, that is not Mr Fargher: Only in certain eventuali- right. They come to an agreement ties, if the water was down to a certain either to compensate you or give you level. compensating water. Mr Crellin: It has always been held Mr Cameron: When we are told we out to this Court that if the water was will get it, it is quite all right, What I low, they could only take it at week- was afraid of was that they would go ends. ahead without any thoughts of our water The Speaker: Castletown Water Com- rights. pany has functioned for 80 years. Mr G, E. Moore, advocate: I Mr Crellin: They were very glad to appear on behalf of the Rushen get it. Water Board and other noticed parties, not in opposition, but I Mr Fargher: I was interested in these consent to the deletion of the words proceedings, and they never got any- "and premises" from clause 19. I should thing from the Castletown Water Com- say that my clients support the scheme pany. If Castletown were short of entirely. water, they had to take it outside certain Mr Crellin: I beg to second the resolu- hours, and had to pay compensation, but tion, and perhaps it will be on my they never paid compensation. shoulders to explain this scheme as far Mr Crellin: One reason was that the as possible. The Local Government valve was about six feet under water. Board have had the matter in hand The Speaker: Was it not a fact that throughout, and naturally we are in a the object was to clear the way for the position to know something about it. In Southern Water Board, and had nothing the main this is the same as previous to do with Castletown? provisional orders. This time, before we finally settled on the details, we held Mr Crellin: It was a great relief to two inquiries, the first at Castletown, Castletown when it was done.

Southern Water Board—Provisional Order, 122 YNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 31, 11)39.

• Mr Gelling: May I offer an explana- not want to hear his evidence, but there tion? I know the subject from A to Z. is a memorandum which proved that last The hold the mill-owners had on the year on three occasions they were de- Castletown Water Company prevented finitely short of water. them extending to and 11) FE0131 consideration of population and , but they were absolutely free available yield I arrived at the conclusion that the water supplies to the RuShen Water of the mill-owners so far as this scheme Board, the 'Maim Water Board, and the was concerned, and I don't think they Castletown Water Cmnpany should be in- paid £1 of compensation. creased at an early date. (2) That this conclusion was correct is shown The Attorney-General: They were by the serious position last summer, which liable. was as follows :— Mr Gelling: But they never paid, be- The Bushell Water Board found it neces- sary to restrict the use of water, and were cause they had the intake pipe under just. able to meet the demand by using all water. Malew certainly has no th el r available resources, including the Pa.rk• cause for complaint, because I am bound Punining Scheme- to admit that this Court has dealt very, Between the hours of 8-30 a..m. and 12 noun certain highs levels were short of water, very generously with Malew in their and as the result of a small fire the supply undertaking. The Malew Commissioners at the Rowany Golf Club Cafe ceased know that, too, and• if they go on as altogether. they are, I believe they will be in the The Malcw Water Board at times ab- stracted the whole of the flow available from happiest position of any authority in Struan Barritle, and found it necessary to this Island. Whilst it is not for us to raise the level of the overflow weir to pro- deal with the actual scheme, there are vide additional small storage. certain references that must be made The Castletown Water Company were today. The question has been raised as definitely short of water, but maintained their supply by using water abstracted from to how much Government money is to Awin Vitchell and Upper Cringle, the rights be put into the scheme, and the amount of which are vested in the Rushen Water is approximately R.68,51)0 spread over Board. five years. That is the present scheme. (3) New works are necessary to provide an It will take that to finally get this adequate reserve and new supplies. (4) To comply with modern standards all scheme put into operation. water supplies must be adequately protected Mr J. H. L. Cowin: Will you tell us against pollution. This generally rermires fill ration and chlorination and demands con. what the rate will be? slant skilled supervision. Mr Crellin: I told you-2s 9d and (51 A water supply tinder one control can be administered much more economically than a 2s 6d. number of small unite. Mr Fargher: Can you tell us what the (61 If Rushen, Malew and Castletown were deficiency rate will be? amalgamated into one Water Board it would be possible to give the whole of the district Mr Crellin: No one can tell that, under consideration (except St. Mark's) a supply of filtered and treated water by the Mr Fargher: Isn't that the whole ob- construction of one impounding reservoir and jection of the Castletown people? one filtration works. (7) The filtration works would be at Balla- Mr Crellin: The Rushen area gener- gawne. and the large existing reservoir of ally is short of water in a dry summer, 5.000.000 gallons capacity wonld become the and the Rushen Water Board have had main filtered water storage reservoir for the a very worrying time owing to the in- whole district. The districts of Castletown crease in their neighbourhood. Castle- and Ballasalla would thereby benefit con- siderably in the case of fire or 'other sudden town, aS Mr Gelling suggests, has one demand. of the best supplies in the Island, and I (8) it the authorities do not amalgamate think the Court will agree that it is only these advantages will not be available, and fair that they should part with some of three separate new works will be necessary, their water to the Rushen area. with additional costs for construction and ad- ministration. The Speaker: And pay 6d for doing it. The Speaker: Castletown have been Mr Crellin: Mention has been made supplying water to Rusher'. Isn't there short of water. Mr Osman, the resident a scheme by which Castletown supplies engineer, is in Court and members may Rushen with water?

Southern Water Board—Provisional Order. T YNNVALD COLIR.T. OCTOBER 31, 1939, 12:1

Mr Crellin: Yes, but there is a limit. of it. "Premises" is a very vague term, When Castletown's water gets to a cer- and it was never intended that the word tain level they no longer have to sup- should be included. ply, and this year the water got so low The Attorney-General: I agree to that. that they had to draw on the Rushen supply. Mr Kelly: May I ask the chairman of the Local Government Board whether The Speaker: Where did Rushen get the Castletown Water Company own the those reserves? Castletown originally whole of the watershed from which they drew on these reserves, which in the past draw their water? year or two have been allocated to Rushen. Mr Crellin: By no means. They own a portion of it. Mr. Crellin: At the present time we have three open supplies of water, all of Mr Kelly: That is what I understand. which are liable to pollution. I will ad- It is not a case of them being the owners mit that in each case up to now the of the area from which they draw their water has been of a high standard, but water. it only wants one typhoid carrier in any Mr Fargher: They have control of it Of these neighbourhoods to contaminate under their agreements. the water, and if that is done the Isola- tion Hospital charges will go up, and Mr Crellin: There is one point which I goodness knows where the Castletown overlooked, and that is that the Rushen Water Co. will be if they have to pay Water Board are certainly getting a compensation. It is from the public reduction of twopence, but the Rushen health point of view that the Local Gov- Water Board have spent a very con- ernment Board is pressing this, and it siderable amount of money relaying would be the finest advertisement we new mains and lining others, so I think could have if we could say that all water they are entitled to some reduction, par- supplies are adequately treated and up ticularly as the work was undertaken at to the best English standard. We are a very expensive time. not trying to burden the ratepayers in Mr Hampton: May I ask if the extra any way, and do not think that a 6d rate ticl rate covers the cost of chlorinating is too much for Castletown to pay for the water in Castletown? the extra benefit they are going to get. People say that they are going to get Mr Fargher: May I ask if there is any nothing, but obviously they are going to water authority in the Island which get a great deal. I admit that the Cas- owns the whole of its watershed? tletown is absolutely safe at present, Mr Crellin: I think Douglas does. though being an open supply, but if there is an epidemic you only want one Mr Fargher: Don't they only own a medical practitioner to make things look portion? rather bad. I want to make an amend- Mr Ashton: Some words spoken by the ment to the Provisional Order. It was hon. member, Mr Fargher, raise a very referred to by learned counsel, and it is vital point from the point of view of the in paragraph 19. The words "and Ciistlelown Commissioners. The South- premises" should be deleted and the ern Water Board have power to levy an word "and" inserted in front of "camps" additional rate. It was in my mind that in line 2 and line 5. This is not in the the limit of 2s 6d was most carefully put order as originally produced by the to the chairman at the inquiry, and -I Board. have here two letters from the t,ocal. Government Board, one dated 10th July, The Speaker: Ordinary premises, which says, "the proposal to be put for- don't they have to pay a rate? ward by my board is that the domestic Mr Crellin: Premises may include rate shall not exceed 2s 61:1," and the one farmyards or anything, and they, of dated 4th August says that the rate in course, come in in this Provisional the town of Castletown will not exceed Order. There are special charges for 2s 6d in the ;E'.. That is definite, and farm premises, troughs and that sort of should have been a binding undertaking. thing. It is in the definition of premises If we are now to have this clause that in the beginning of the Order or in part they can levy an additional rate to Meet

Southern Water Board—Provisional Order.

124 TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 31, 1939, the financial needs, that undertaking is admirable scheme, and one that should of no value whatever. go on. I do feel disappointed that the Local Government Board have not The Attorney-General: The maximum agreed to treat Castletown on its merits assessment would continue to remain. in view of the fact that they have an Supposing they decided to levy a ls 6d adequate and excellent supply of pure rate in any year, and that proved in- water of their own. It is true that they sufficient to meet the expenditure, and have a small reservoir, but it is fed by there was a deficiency. They may raise an excellent spring of pure water, and the deficiency by imposing a rate within the risk of contamination is infini- the maximum which would be sufficient tesimal. For the past eighty years to meet next year's needs and meet the Castletown has had an adequate and deficiency of the past year. pure water supply which has never Mr Fargher: Is that the deficiency failed even in the worst year of drought. rate? If it is necessary to amalgamate the water supplies of the district, no one in The Attorney-General: It says here Castletown will object to supply the that it shall be lawful for the Water South of the Island; but when we do Board to levy a rate for domestic pur- that we should not he placed in a worse poses not to exceed 2s 9d in the one case position than we are now. We are to and not to exceed 2s 6d in the other. have the water filtered, but that filtra- Then the next clause says: tion will not improve Castletovvn's sup- If iii any year the amount standing to the ply, because year after year certificates credit, of the account of the Water Board shall have been issued by the local analyst be insufficient for the payment of the charges O s to the purity of the supply. The thereon, the deficiency shall be made up the point is whether this is fair to Castle- following year by including the deficiency in the estimates of such year, and shall be col- town, the result being that we are being lected as part of the water rate for such year. asked to pay sixpence more in water rate. I submit to each member of the It is always subject to a limit, a Court that that is unreasonable. I say maximum. there is no justification for it, and it The Speaker: I wished to move an may induce people to vote against this amendment, but I understand that the whole scheme. We are spending motion cannot be amended, and 1 will Z68.000 of public money to finance this therefore move that the matter be re- scheme. Under the scheme the water ferred back. I am extremely sorry that rate in Rushen is being reduced. There on a matter of this importance an is there a large visiting industry in the issue should be raised which shows an summer which has to be catered for in apparent clash of interests between the the interests of the Island, which will town of Castletown and the sheading of have its rate reduced; but Castletown, Rushen 'and the districts of Port St. which has no industry, is to be asked to Mary and Port Erin; but that is not so, pay sixpence more. The Castletown speaking for myself and those I repre- Commissioners have carefully con- sent. We are most anxious that the sidered the scheme, and agreed to a benefits under this scheme should be ex- compromise under which the town tended to our neighbours in Rushen at should pay 2s 3d in the though they the earliest possible moment. No one were only remotely interested in the knows better the difficulties that Port scheme. I move that the matter be re- St.. Mary and Port Erin have had to ferred back to the Board to consider the face in recent years, and the great short- financial arrangements of the scheme, age there has been in those districts, and if the reference back is not carried. especially during the year of the T must vote against the whole thing. drought. We agreed that the scheme to Mrs Shirnmin: May I second the expend £68,000 of public money should amendment. I am looking forward to have favourable consideration, in the the day when Peel may be in the saem hope that it will mean an ample supply position as Castletown is to-day, though to other places in the district as well as we have very much more water. I enter to Port St. Mary and Port Erin, I agree into the feelings of the Castletown with Mr Gelling. We think this is an people.

Southern Water Board—Provisional Order, lYNWALD couicr, OCTOBER :31, 1939. l2g

Mr Daniel Teo re: I would like to ask Deemster Cowley: We invited them to who fixed the different rates? consider and talk the matter over, and The Speaker: They are fixed in the after considering the whole scheme they scheme by the Local Government came to the conclusion it was a reason- Board. able proposal. Under the scheme in Bushen the rate will be 2/9 in place of Deemster Cowley. As one who has 2/11. At present there is considerable taken a considerable interest in this difference in the rating in the district. matter. I hope that the Court will not You have some people in Colby paying imperil such an important development 3/9 and on the other side of the road by quarrelling over such a question as paying 2/6. Castletown is in the fortun- to tvhether there should be a 2/3 or a ate position of only paying 2/-. In 2/6 rate in Castletown. The question Malew also there was a 2/- rate, and of the provision of an adequate water Arbory pay 2/6; so that in the South supply for the South of the Island has of the Island there is no flat rate under been before this Court for a very long which they get water. The policy that time. There is no doubt that everyone we have had before us under the Water knows that the question is one of vital Supply Acts is that 2/6 is a reasonable interest to Port Erin and Port St. Mary rate to get a supply of water. The Gov- and to the industry of the Isle of Man ernment have in many cases helped as a visiting resort, and something must different localities to get a supply at a be done to improve the water supply of level rate of 2/6. The idea of the scheme that part of the Island. It was felt that is, as far as possible, to equalise the when about it, the whole district should rate over the whole district, and this can be dealt with. The Local Government only be done by the large measure of Board have considered this matter; ii Government assistance which has been has been gone into by His Excellency, recommended. The scheme under the and it was considered that, as has been provisional order deals with compensa- done in the North of the Island, we tion claims, and will cost some £75,000, should in the South help the whole com- of which £53,000 will be paid out of munity so that one district would not be revenue; new pipe lines will be laid, benefited more than another. The and the whole service in the South of matter, as I said, has been fully con- the Island will be doubled from supplies sidered by the Local Government Board at Struan and the Cringle. It does seem and referred to the Public Works Com- to me, and I hope the people of Castle- mission. It was found that some dis- town will take the broad view, that the tricts in the South were not supplied. scheme should be approved. If they The Howe, part of Bradda and a large have to pay a 2/6 rate they will get a part of Santon had no supply at all. All water supply for the first time filtered the public bodies in that part of the and chlorinated. Island were got together so that there could be a fair and equitable scheme for Mr Cattier: In the North the rate is thte supply of water. We held a num- 3s. ber of meetings and had interviews with Deemster Cowley; The Castletown all the water authorities in the district people will also be getting an entirely and invited the Castletown Commis- new main, and there will be a much im- sioners. Their town did not benefit, and proved supply which will benefit the they were at first rather doubtful about whole of the South. an agreement. They did not like bind- ing themselves, but after a lengthly dis- Mr Fargher: Does the £75,000 pro- cussion they agreed to a 2/6 rate if vide for the purchase of the Castletown Castletown was represented on the Water Works? Board. They had to get that assurance. Deemster Cowley: No, for the im- The Speaker: When was that? provement of the existing scheme. The Castletown undertaking, it is provided, Deemster Cowley: About two years shall be purchased by arbitration. ago. The Court divided on the Speaker's The Speaker: Had they reason to amendment that the scheme be referred think they would not be on the Board? back.

Southern Water Board—Provisional Order. 126 TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER $1, 1939.

The voting was:—In the Keys— THE WATER (SUPPLY) ACT, 1929- For: Messrs Quayle, T. H. Kneen, 1936.—SOUTHERN WATER BOARD Fargher, Alcock, Mrs Shimmin, and MEMBERSHIP, the Speaker-6. The Attorney-General moved:— Against: Messrs Robert Kneen, Crel- His Excellency having informed the Court lin, D. J. Teare, Cottier, W. K. that he had nominated in pursuance of the Cowin, J. H. L. Cowin, Clucas, resolution of Tynwald passed on the 2.2nd day Richard Kneen, Kelly, McArd, Nor- of March, 1939, and the Provisional Order ris, Kitto, Hampton, Alfred Teare, made by the Local Govz!rninent Board on the 4th day of August, 1939, for the establishment and Craine-15. of a Water Board for the south of the The amendment was unanimously de- Island :— feated in the Council and lost. Mr E. M. Gawne, Kentraugh, Port St. Mary; Mr Alfred Moore, Dreswick, Port St. Mary; The resolution approving the pro- Mr J. Stanley Cubbon, Arbors Street, Castle- visional order was then put and carried town; and • without a division, Mi. W. A. Garrett, Ballagarey, St.. Mark's, to lie members of the South Water Board. Resolved—That Tynwald do approve thin THE WATER (SUPPLY) ACTS, 1920- nominations. 1936.—SOUTHERN WATER BOARD Mr Crellin: I beg to second the resolu- CHAIRMAN. tion. One point that was brought up His Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor at the Local Government Board inquiry announced to Tynwald that he had was that there should be adequate nominated Mr J. J. McArd, M.H.K., to representation over the whole area. The be chairman of the Southern Water rateable value of Castletown is £10,000, Board in pursuance of the resolution of of Rushen £34,000, of Malew £22,000. Tynwald of 22nd March, 1039, and under The Speaker: I am not opposing the the provisional order made by the Local whole of the committee en bloc, or any Government Board on the 4th August, particular individual, but while the rate- 1939, for the establishment of a Water able values of Castletown and Malew Board for the South of the Island. are practically equal to Rushen, on the Board there are two members for part of the district, while the other part has THE WATER (SUPPLY) ACTS, 1929- three members. I think that the choice ]936—SOUTHERN WATER BOARD of chairman is admirable, but under Inc MEMBERSHIP. circumstances I think it would have His Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor been better to have an independent announced to Tynwald that he had gentleman from another area, nominated Mr E. M. Gawne, Kentraugh, Mr Crellin: The chairman is to be a Port St. Mary; Mr Alfred Moore, Dres- member from the area. wick, Port St. Mary; Mr J. Stanley The resolution was carried. Cubbon, Arbory Street, Castletewn, and Mr W. A. Garrett, Ballagarey, St. Marles, to be members of the Southern NATIONAL SERVICE (ARMED Water Board in pursuance of the resolu- FORCES) ACT—CONSTITUTION OF tion of Tynwald passed on the 22nd TRIBUNALS. March, 1939, and under the provisional The next item dealt with on the order made by the Local Government agenda was an announcement by the Board on the 4th August, 1939, for the Lieutenant-Governor, announcing tile establishment of a Water Board for the constitution of the tribunaii, South of the Island. His Excellency said: The Order in Mr Norris: Are these voluntary posi- Council applying the National Service tions? (Armed Forces) Act to the Island was Mr Crellin: All members get sub- only made on Friday, arid there has not sistence expenses who are not members been much time for anyone to go into of the Legislature. the regulations. I have consulted with

The Water (Supply) Acts, 1929-1936—Southern Water Board Chairman.—The Water (Supply) Acts, 1929-1936—Southern Water Board Membership.—National Service (Armed Forces) Act—Constitution of Tribunals,

TYNWALD • COURT, OCTOBER 31, 1939. 127

the First Deemster and the High-Bailiff harbour, where considerable ex- as chairmen of the tribunals, and it has pense is incurred from time to time in been found that officials of trade unions keeping the place clear. It is proposed are not eligible to 'sit on a tribunal, and that the silt shall be removed at a cost thetefore I have selected two others in of approximately .£5110, which would the place • of the union officials on employ ten men from the district of the aganda. Mr Walter Wilson, West- Laxey during the winter employment minster Terrace, Douglas, will take the period. The scheme is largely labour, place of Mr R. E. Davies on the Local and the Public Works Commission have Tribunal, and Mr W. C. Hudson, an elec- made recommendations to the Highway trician in the employ of the Isle of Man Board with regard to the commercialising Railway Company, that of Mr R. A. of the material when taken out, which_ I Hollerton. believe are under consideration. It is a Mr Richard Kneen rose to speak. very useful scheme, and will be a The Governor: I. have only made an saving of expense to another Govern- announcement. We shall be dealing ment department in the near future, and with the question to-morrow. it will provide work in a district which, particularly this winter, requires all the CUSTOMS ACTS ORDER APPROVED. assistance it can get. The Attorney-General moved:— The resolution was carried. That the following Order made by 1113 Ex- cellency the Lieutenant-Governor under the APPOINTMENT OF GOVERNMENT provisions a the Isle of Man (Customs) Acts he and the same is hereby approved :— AUDITORS. The 'import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 7) (Isle Mr Crellin: I beg to move:— of Man) Order. 1939. (Government Circu- lar No. 2041.) That Messrs W. H. Walker & Co. be ap• pointed to audit the following accounts, and Agreed. that their remuneration be fixed at the sum of £692 8s, payable in the proportions set op- posite the same respectively:— IMPROVEMENTS TO DAM AT Borough of Douglas (including LAXEY, Water, Tram and Electricity De- Deemster Cowley: I beg to move:— partmente, and Housing Ac- counts) for the year to 31st That the Treasurer of he isle of Man be March, 1940 £210 0 0 authorised to apply from the current revenue Commissioners of Ramsey for the of this Isle, during the year ending 31st year to 31st March, 1940 28 7 0 March, 1940, a sum not exceeding .£500 for the Commissioners of CaAstletown for purpose of defraying the expenditure to be the year to list March, 1940 8 8 .0 incurred by the isle of Man Highway Board in Commissioners of Peel for the year the clearing of debris which has accumulated to 31st March, 1940 10 10 0 in the Agneash dam, at Laxey. Commissioners of Port Erin for the This dam is not really at Agneash; it is year to 31st March, 1940 10 10 0 Commissioners of Port St. Mary for a dam used in connection with the wash- the year to 31st March, 1940 9 9 0 ing floors and the sawmill at the Great Common Lands Board for year Laxey mines. I think members will ended 12th November, 1939 4 4 0 recognise it much better as the darn The Mental Hospital Board (in- cluding the Infirmary) for the situated near the Big Wheel. It is not year to 31s1. March, 1940 44 2 0 the Agneash dam; I don't know whether Douglas Board of Guardians for it has a local description; probably the year to 31st March, 1940 15 15 0 hon. member for , Mr Cowin, can Ramsey Board of Guardians for the year to 31st March, 1940 6 6 0 tell ug. A scheme was put forward by Castletown Board of Guardians for the Highway Board for the cleaning of Lbs year to 31st March, 1940 3 3 0 the dam. which was very much filled Peel Board of Guardians for the with rubbish and stone and silt, and was year to 31st March, 1940 5 5 0 Board of Guardians for a serious cause of trouble and expense the year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 to the Harbour Board, because in times Board of Guardians for the of flood the debris is carried down iniu year to 31st March, 1940 3 3 0

customs Acts Order Approved.—Improvements to Dam at Laxey.—Appointment pi' Government Auditors,

128 TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 31, 1939.

German Board of Guardians for Michael Parish Commissioners for the year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 9 year to 31st March, 1940 I 11 6 Nalew Board of Guardians for the Parish Commissioners year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 for year to 31st March, 1940 1 11 6 BaBaugh Board of Guardians for Ma 'own Parish 001311.11iSSiO11011S for the year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 year to 31st March, 1940 1 11 6 Board of Guardians for Maim Pa rish Commissioners for the year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 Board of Guardians for the Cuellar] Parish Commissioners for year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 year to 31st March, 1940 1 11 6 Rushen Board of Guardians for the Patrick Parish Commissioners for year to 31st March, 1940 3 3 0 year to 31st March, 1940 1 11 6 Board of Guardians for Rushee Parish Commissioners for the year to 31st March, 1940 3 3 0 year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 Michael Board of Guardians for &Mon Parish Commissioners for the year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 year to 31st March, 1940 1 11 6 3urby Board of Guardians for the Laxey Village Commissioners for year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 year to list March, 1940 7 7 0 Onchau Board of Guardians for Michael Village Commissioners for the year to list March, 1940 3 3 0 year to 31st March, 1940 4 14 6 Arbor2.- Board of Guardians for the Onchatt Village Commissioners for year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 year to 31st March, 1940 7 7 0 .1ndreas Board of Guardians for The St. Joint's Drainage Board for the year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 Board of Guardians for St. .1 oh it's ( and Pa tri ck) 1 he year to 31st March, 1940 2 2 0 Water Board for year to 31st, Swami Board of Guardians for the March, 1940 1 11 6 year to 31st March, 1940 2219 Malew Parish Commissioners- The Highway Board for year to Ballasalla Special Drainage Dis- 31st March, 1940 75 0 0 trict for year to 31st March, Sulby River Drainage District for 1940 1 11 6 year to 31st March, 1940 1 1 0 Derbyhaven Drainage District for Lite]) Moat- Drainage District for year to 31st March, 1940 1 11 6 year to 31st March, 1940 1 1 Water Scheme for year to 31st Killane Drainage District for year Ma rch, 1940 1 11 6 to 31st March, 1940 1 1 0 Michael Village Commissioners— Special Drainage Districts for year Water Scheme for year to 31st to 31st March, 1940 3 3 0 March, 1940 1 11 6 of Man Publicity Board for Dachau Parish Commissioners— year to 31st December, 1939 15 15 6 Banana rd Road Drainage Dis- Board of Agriculture for year to trict for year to 31st March, 31st March, 1940 7 7 0 1 11 6 Board of Agriculture Knockaloe A rbo1940 Parish Commissioners-- Account, for year to 12th Novem- Colby-Arbory Drainage Distriet ber, 1939 5519 for year to 31.st March, 1940 1 91 6 Board of Agriculture and Seed Bushell Parish Commissioners— Potato Exportation Scheme for Co lby-Rushen Drainage District year to 31st March, 1940 1 11 6 for year to 31st March, 1940 I 1l 6 Manx Health Insurance Society for Braddan Parish Commissioners— Drainage District for year to 31st December, 1939 42 0 0 1 11 6 Fisheries Board for Year to 31st year to 31st. March, 1940 December, 1939 3319 Donau Parish Commissioners- Bushen Water Board for year to Baldri n a-Ga. rwick Drainage Dis- trict for year to 31st March, 31st March, 1940 10 10 0 1 11 Parish Commissioners for 1940 6 year to 31st March, 1940 1 11 6 le a row n Parish Commissioners— rhOrY Parish Commissioners for Crosby Drainage District for year year to 31st March, 1940 111 6 to 31st March, 1940 1 11 6 Bride Parish Commissioners for Marown Water Authority for year to 31st March, 1940 1 11 6 year to 31st March. 1940 1 11 6 Parish Commissioners for Isle of Man Electricity Board for year to 31st, March, 1940 1 11 6 year to 31st March, 1940 42 0 0 Braddan Parish Commissioners for Northern Water Board for year to year to 31st March, 1940 5 5 0 31st March, 1940 .15 15 0 German Parish Commissioners for The Rusher' Joint Fire Protection year to 31st March. 1940 1 11 6 Board for year to 31st March, Parish Commissioners for 1940 2 Z 0 year to 31st March, 1940 1 11 6 Lezayre Parish Commissioners for £692 8 0 year to 3151 March, 1940 11 6 Lonau Parish Commissioners for The only differences between last year's year to list March, 1940 1 11 I fees and this year's are the following:

Appointment of Government Auditors. TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 31, 1939. 129

The fees for the former St. John's This follows action by the authorities of (German) and St. John's (Patrick) the museums in England, and is entirely drainage boards were each El I is 6d; due to the black-out. it is proposed to pay for the new .St. Mr Norris: The staff will still be in John's Drainage Board E2 2s. The ex- penses of the Michael Village Commis- the building during the present hours? sioners and of their drainage scheme The Attorney-General: Yes, but the were formerly shown separately; now public will not. they are amalgamated. A new item is The resolution was carried. the accounts of the Santon Board of Guardians, which has been created this SURCHARGE BY PUBLIC AUDITORS. year; and the Rushen Joint Fire Pro- —MENTAL HOSPITAL BOARD AND tection Board is in the same position. BOARDS OF GUARDIANS. Mr J. H. L. Cowin: I object, for this Mr Craine moved:— reason: the income of the Isle of Man, That the following sums, surcharged by the from which the Government gets its Public Auditors for the year ended 31st March, revenue, is going to decrease. There 1939, be allowed:— will not be money enough—I don't know Mental Hospital Board (Mental whether members think there will be; I Hospital Account) (expenses in- curred in the removal of poor don't, know what things are coming to— Persons to the mainland without to pay for the civil service of the Island. order of Court) 824 9 4 1 would suggest that Messrs W. H Merited Hospital Board (Infirmary Walker and Co be asked, during the A ecount)—Bank interest 0 1 9 period of the war, when the work will Douglas Board of (lwardiansBailk interest 31 3 0 not be so great, to accept a smaller Lonan Board of Guardians—Bank remuneration. For that reason I person- interest 7 13 9 ally shall oppose this vote. Patrick Board of Guardians—Bank The Attorney-General: It is for the Interest 0 4 1 accounts of the current year, and will Agreed, represent the same work exactly. RAMSEY TOWN COMMISSIONERS.— The motion was carried, Mr J. H. L. LOAN FOR EXCESS ROAD Cowin voting against. EXPENDITURE. MANX 1VIUSEUM.—HOURS OF The Ramsey Town Commissioners peti- OPENING. tioned for leave to borrow the sum of £550 at a rate of interest not exceeding Deemster Farrant: I beg to move:— 4 per cent. per annum and to be repaid Whereas it is provided by section 5 of the within 20 years, to cover part of the ex- Manx Museum Library and Art Gallery Act, 1922, that the Public Museum Library and Art cess expenditure incurred by them in Gallery referred to in such Act will be open connection with the repair and re- to the public on such days and for such hours construction of certain roads in the and subject to such conditions as the trustees town of Ramsey during the year 1936-37. may determine subject to the approval of Tynwald. --The Local Government Board pre- And whereas such hours of opening were sented its report. fixed by the trustees and approved by Tynwald Mr Crellin: I beg to move that the whereby dater aiia) the hour of closing of such Museirm Library and Art. Gallery was prayer of the petition be granted. This used at the hour of 5 p.m. during the days loan of £550 is in addition to the £1,000 that such premises are open to the public. voted by the Court, in order to clear up And whereas, owing to lighting and other a tangle which was left by the . Com- restrictions now prevailing, the trustees have missioners' former surveyor, due either determined, subject to the approval of Tyn- wald, that such hour of closing of the Museum to under-estimating, or to under- Library and Art Gallery shall be the hour of estimating and lack of supervision. At four o'clock in the afternoon instead of five any rate, the roads cost considerably o'clock in the afternoon. more than was anticipated. Resolved—That Tynwald approve such deter- mination of the Trustees- Agreed.

Manx Museum—Hours of Opening.L-Surc barge by Public Auditors—MentalHospital Board and Boards of Guardians.—Ramsey Town Commissioners—Loan for Excess Road Expenditure. 130 TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 31, 1939.

PORT ERIN COMMISSIONERS.-- stoners at 3-i per cent. for at least 20 LOAN TO PURCHASE SIX HOUSES. years, This means an annual loss to The Port Erin Commissioners peti- them of £9, which is offset by their tioned for approval to the purchase of having no liability in connection wail six houses in St. Catherine's Terrace, building up the brows. Port Erin, and for leave to borrow The resolution was carried. £1,950 at a rate of interest not exceed- ing 4i per cent. and repayable within 50 years. in connection therewith.—The ADJOURNMENT. Local Government Board presented its The Attorney-General: Does your Ex- report. cellency think there is any possibility Mr Crellin- I peg to move that the of finishing the rest of the agenda, so as prayer of the peticion be granted. The to avoid coming down to-morrow? I purchase price of the houses is £1,850. think that if there was an explanation The properties were valued in 1926 by of the items held over, we might sae two surveyors at £1,640 and £1,620; in members time. With regard to the 1930 they were again valued, and the regulations under the Military Service figure given was £2,748. It is not pro- Act, I simply want to explain that they posed to demolish them at present, as are exactly the same as those under the they are in a fair state of repair; but it English Act, and I could explain what may be proposed in the near future to the reserved occupations are. I don't build a retaining wall, to prevent a slip- suppose members wish to come down ping of the-brows above them. The to-morrow if it is not necessary. vicar and wardens of Rushen. who are The Government adjourned the sitting the vendors, propose to invest the money to the following day. Wednesday, Novem- in a mortgage bond of the Commis- ber 1st, at 11 a.m.

HOUSE OF KEYS.

Douglas, T-uesday, October 31. 1939.

Present: The Speaker (Mr J. D. Qual- The House met during the progress of trough, J.P.), Messrs T. A. Quayle, a sitting of Tynwald, having retired to Robert Kneen, J. F. Crellin. T. H. Kneen, its own chamber to consider proposals D. J. Teare, A. J. Cottier. W. K. Cowin, contained in the Tynwald agenda. It J. H. L. Cowin, T. Clucas, E. W. Fargher. subsequently returned to Orb Tynwald Richard Kneen, W. A. Kelly, J. J. MeArd, chamber, and met again at the close of Mrs Shimmin, Messrs W. H. Aleock, S. Norris, A. E. Kitto, R. Q. Hampton. A. 3, the Tynwald sitting, when it adjourned Teare, and W. C. Craine. with Mr R. G. to the following day, Wednesday. Novem- Johnson, Acting-Secretary. ber 1st, at 10-30 am

Fort Erin Commissioners—Loan to Purchase, Six Houses.—Adjournment.