Thursday Volume 563 16 May 2013 No. 7

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 16 May 2013

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2013 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 771 16 MAY 2013 772

Mr Heath: I am not quite sure who the consumer is in House of Commons this instance. Presumably, the right hon. Gentleman means the dog owner. Most of the microchipping will Thursday 16 May 2013 be done by charities and will be free to owners. A number of charities are happy to work with us on that, so I do not think that we are talking about prohibitive The House met at half-past Nine o’clock cost. We are working with the devolved Administrations so that, as far as possible, we have consistency across national boundaries. PRAYERS Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): One of the charities the Minister has been working with is Battersea Dogs [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] and Cats Home, which is focusing particularly on encouraging more responsible attitudes in younger people. May I commend to the Minister the video “Bully Breed”, Oral Answers to Questions which it launched in Parliament recently and could be a good educational tool for schools and youth groups?

Mr Heath: Indeed. Battersea Dogs and Cats Home ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS does a lot of very good work to promote responsible dog ownership, not least because it sees the consequences when things go wrong, and I certainly commend its The Secretary of State was asked— work. I hope we will be able to make people appreciate that, whether through ignorance, neglect or malice, it is Dog Ownership simply unacceptable to have a dog that is a danger to other people under any circumstances. 1. Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): What steps he is taking to encourage responsible dog Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): While ownership. [155334] we welcome compulsory microchipping and the extension to include private property in pursuing prosecutions of The Minister of State, Department for Environment, irresponsible dog owners, why did the Government not Food and Rural Affairs (Mr David Heath): Good morning, also include dog control notices as part of the measures, Mr Speaker. something that the Dogs Trust has been calling for and The Government are introducing a range of measures which would go a long way to helping to solve this to tackle irresponsible dog ownership, including: extending problem? the criminal offence of allowing a dog to be dangerously out of control to all places, including inside the dog Mr Heath: Of course, the Home Office is introducing owner’s home; requiring all dogs to be microchipped the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill, from April 2016; and powers to enable local authorities which will deal with precisely this problem. I cannot see and the police to respond to incidences of antisocial the obsession with the label that is placed on those behaviour that involves a dog before the situation becomes orders—it is the outcome that matters. What matters is dangerous. the fact that flexible tools will be available to the police and others to deal with this nuisance in the way the hon. Rehman Chishti: I thank the Minister for that answer. Gentleman wants. The measures will be in the Bill, and In my constituency, Medway council has been running he will have the opportunity shortly to discuss whether a local community initiative offering free microchipping they go far enough and whether there are any opportunities and advice on looking after dogs. What are the Government for improvement. doing to encourage such community initiatives that help to foster responsible dog ownership? British Producers: New Markets Mr Heath: That is exactly what we want to see happening, and I applaud my hon. Friend’s local council 2. Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): What progress for promoting responsible dog ownership. We provided he has made on opening up new markets to British £50,000 of funding to three welfare charities to carry producers. [155335] out community engagement programmes in targeted hot spot areas with known problems of antisocial behaviour The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and with dogs. Final reports are being received and we Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson): Mr Speaker, good intend to publish the results for further dissemination morning. of best practice. Educating the public on how to look The Department for Environment, Food and Rural after their dogs properly is absolutely essential to tackling Affairs continues to work with UK Trade & Investment irresponsible dog ownership. and industry to promote exports and address market access barriers. We have opened the pork markets in Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): What assessment China and Australia, expanded the beef market to has the Minister made of the cost of microchipping to Hong Kong, and opened poultry, beef and lamb markets the consumer? What discussions has he had with the in Russia. We continue to work hard to open and devolved Administrations to ensure that we have a maintain markets for UK goods. We also champion UK-wide approach? British food at the world’s key trade events. 773 Oral Answers16 MAY 2013 Oral Answers 774

Nick de Bois: Good morning, Mr Speaker. Mr Paterson: We are talking about exports. We want I would like to press the Secretary of State, if I may. to export to Europe, but yesterday’s results for the Given the continuing emerging strength of the BRIC— French economy, led by her leader’s close ally, show that Brazil, Russia, India and China—countries, what scope unemployment there has rocketed to 10.6%. In such is there for British products in that market? circumstances, it is hard to sell and increase our exports to the eurozone. My hon. Friend the Member for Enfield Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to North (Nick de Bois) is on exactly the right lines in spot the growth in these markets. Last year, our exports looking at the BRIC countries. We want to export more to China grew by 6%, our exports to India by 7% and to Europe, but we also want to export to expanding our exports to the USA by 9%, and only last week the parts of the world, such as the BRIC countries. Prime Minister was in Russia talking to President Putin about increasing our exports there. At the moment, the Live Animal Exports BRIC economies represent only 3% of our total export market, but there are massive opportunities to expand 3. Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): If he will consider further. banning live animal exports from British ports; and if he will make a statement. [155336] 16. [155350] Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): Happy Thursday, Mr Speaker. The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Will the Secretary of State reflect on the fact that Food and Rural Affairs (Mr David Heath): Banning the the British food producers industry makes a significant export of live animals would be illegal and undermine contribution to the UK economy? What impact would the principle of the free movement of goods enshrined it have on that industry, were the UK to leave the EU? in the treaty on the functioning of the European Union.

Mr Paterson: The hon. Gentleman is right to spot the Charlie Elphicke: My constituents are concerned about importance of food production. It is the largest live animal exports: they think them bad for animal manufacturing sector in the country, and we would like welfare and the local economy. Will the Minister confirm to see exports expanded into Europe and the BRIC that no amendment could be made to any of the harbours countries, as I just said. or ports Acts that would be effective in tackling this cruel and unwanted trade? Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab): The Opposition were pleased to see the Prime Minister in the USA this week Mr Heath: The key piece of legislation here is the negotiating a trade deal on behalf of the EU to open up Harbours, Docks and Piers Clauses Act 1847, which that new export market to the British food industry. I would be a singularly inappropriate vehicle for any such was disappointed to note the Secretary of State’s failure ban, because its aim is to ensure that ports are available to support his Government’s Queen’s Speech in its to all without discrimination. Even were one to set that entirety last night. Does he agree with his Prime Minister side, however, no such ban would be legal under the free and President Obama that the UK is better off in the trade rules that this country is not only a signatory to, EU? Yes or no? but the architect of. Mr Speaker: Presumably, that is with reference to the Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Does the Minister opening up of new markets to British producers? envisage that in any renegotiation of the terms of the UK’s membership of the EU, the capacity to change the Mary Creagh indicated assent. law in this regard would be one of the things agreed?

Mr Paterson: I entirely agree with the Prime Minister Mr Heath: We should not confuse animal welfare that we would like to increase our exports to the EU issues, on which we will continue to push for changes, and around the world, and that is why he was doing and the free movement of goods and services, on which sterling stuff in Russia. I entirely endorse his policy, this country has a clear position. We are in favour of the which is that we should renegotiate and then put the free movement of goods and services, and we are unlikely proposed settlement to the British people. The question to argue for significant changes to that basic principle. for the hon. Lady is whether her wishy-washy Wally of a shadow leader will give the British people a choice. Glasshouse Industry Mary Creagh: I am not sure where we stand on those words. I always play the ball, not the man, Mr Speaker. 4. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): What steps he is It is interesting to note that the Secretary of State is a taking to support the glasshouse industry; and if he little rattled. will make a statement. [155337] At a CBI dinner last night, Roger Carr, its president, said that Britain needed to be in the EU in order to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for build our export base. Membership of the EU gives us Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): access to a domestic market of 500 million people. Our DEFRA works with colleagues across Government to export trade deals are negotiated through the EU. Nearly support sustainable development and remove regulatory three quarters of our food exports go to our European barriers. We work with colleagues in the EU to support fruit neighbours. Once more, will the Secretary of State and vegetable producers through reform of the common explain how Britain’s leaving the UK would help jobs, agricultural policy, the general marketing standards and exports and growth in the British food industry? the fruit and vegetable producer organisation scheme. 775 Oral Answers16 MAY 2013 Oral Answers 776

The Government support and encourage innovative Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): The Forestry approaches to growing through research and development, Commission’s strategy stated clearly that recent outbreaks the agri-tech strategy and the green food project. of tree health problems, such as oak processionary moth, underline the need to maintain an experienced Robert Halfon: Is my hon. Friend aware that my team of pathologists and entomologists capable of carrying constituency of Harlow—in particular, Roydon and out both strategic research and “fire brigade”investigations Nazeing—has the highest concentration of cucumber of new problems. Will the Minister therefore rule out and pepper growers in the United Kingdom? Will he any new cuts to DEFRA and its agencies in the forthcoming support the excellent Lea Valley Growers Association comprehensive spending review, particularly as that and suggest how we can help it to expand? Will he also would endanger the future survival of our country’s meet me and the association to discuss these matters? trees and forests?

Richard Benyon: I think every Member of the House Mr Heath: It is desperately important that we not is well aware of my hon. Friend’s commitment to his only keep together the cadre of experts we have, but local growing businesses. He is a stalwart supporter of expand it. There is a need to recruit new expert them. We want them to expand, not only for the local entomologists, for instance. The hon. Lady mentions jobs that would create, but for our food security. That is oak processionary moth, which is a significant problem, why, for example, we have done combined horticultural but there are many other potential diseases and pests production and energy research to try to assist companies that we need to be aware of. I am absolutely clear that such as those in his constituency with the energy they we need to retain that centre of expertise in the Department. use, which is a big outgoing—and why we have an That is exactly what the tree health and plant biosecurity agri-tech strategy, drawing together engineering skills, taskforce is looking at. It is not for me to pre-empt what R and D, and genotyping to try to reduce costs, using the spending review might say, but it is certainly our the fantastic innovation we have around the country. I intent to ensure that we protect essential services to am happy to consult him to see what more we can do to protect tree health. help specific growers in his constituency, who do a fantastic job. High Speed 2

Forests and Woodland 6. Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for 5. Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con): Transport and farmers on mitigating the effects of What steps he is taking to safeguard the future of High Speed 2 on farms affected by the proposed route. forests and woodland. [155338] [155339]

The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr David Heath): We have set The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for out our commitment to protecting, improving and Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): expanding England’s forestry assets. This includes The Government are committed to ensuring that the establishing a new body to run the public forest estate, construction of the high-speed rail line is undertaken as maintaining a core of forestry expertise in government sympathetically as possible. That is why we have asked and supporting the forestry sector to improve its economic HS2 Ltd to undertake a draft environmental statement performance. We are also giving greater priority to to better understand the impacts of the scheme on plant health and look forward to receiving the final affected parties, including farmers. The draft statement report of the tree health and plant biosecurity taskforce will set out the likely significant impacts, as currently later this month. understood, and will identify proposals to avoid, reduce or remedy those with a significant adverse impact. Gavin Williamson: The Forestry Commission owns a considerable amount of land in and around my Michael Fabricant: Whatever we might think about constituency, including on Cannock Chase and Highgate the principle of high-speed rail—I am actually for it—it common. What action are the Government taking, can hardly be sympathetic, as the Minister said, given along with the Forestry Commission, to work more that the route that we have chosen, the Labour route, closely with voluntary organisations such as the crashes through rural England and affects many farms. Staffordshire wildlife trust to improve not only access, What discussions has the Minister had with the National but the wildlife management of these important local Farmers Union about compensation for farms that will beauty spots? be decimated, with fields being separated from other fields, and land shortages being created by 100 metre Mr Heath: The hon. Gentleman has absolutely hit swaths? the nail on the head. That is exactly what we set out in the forestry and woodlands policy statement. We Richard Benyon: The environmental statement is made it clear that we want the new public forest estate published today and will be available in the Library. We management organisation to work closely with local have had meetings, and in February the National Farmers communities to improve the delivery of public benefits Union and the Country Land and Business Association such as access, recreation and biodiversity. The Forestry signed up to a voluntary agreement with HS2 Ltd that Commission is already taking that commitment forward sets out the process for contacting landowners to discuss by developing a new package of community engagement gaining entry to their land. It also contains a fee structure measures. and a duty of care commitment. This will help HS2 Ltd 777 Oral Answers16 MAY 2013 Oral Answers 778 better to understand the impacts of the scheme on Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): farmers in my hon. Friend’s constituency and elsewhere Everybody agrees that there must be reform and along the route. improvement of the horse passporting system, but under the current system there is a derogation for native Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): Will the Minister breeds such as Welsh mountain ponies and Exmoor also discuss with the Secretary of State the problems ponies. Without that derogation, it would become almost that farmers in my constituency are facing as a result of financially impossible for people to continue to keep proposed business developments on their land to improve those breeds. Will the Secretary of State consider keeping the rural economy being put on hold or stopped altogether the derogation so that we can continue to see those because of the blight? wonderful ponies on our wild hills and mountains?

Richard Benyon: We certainly remain willing to work Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend makes an interesting across Government to ensure that those kinds of concerns point. He is right to say that a number of breeds are about the undoubted impacts are raised. There is huge currently excluded. We will have to work this out as we experience in relation to other infrastructure developments discuss the new system, but I also hope that he will see that have taken place over recent years and decades, and the merits of having a centralised database, which we I can assure my hon. Friend that we will work closely will work through with the passport-issuing authorities. with him to get this right. Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): Bore da i chi, Mr Speaker—good morning to you. Horse Passports The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has become infamous for U-turns, but now our 7. Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) Eurosceptic Secretary of State has been forced into (Con): What steps he is taking to improve the horse making an embarrassing EU-turn as a result of the passport system. [155340] horsemeat scandal. He scrapped the national equine database last year, right in the middle of a tendering The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and process, to save £200,000. Now the European Commission Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson): The Government has told him to re-establish a central equine database. remain committed to strengthening the horse passport How much will it cost to set it up again? system. I met members of the Equine Sector Council for Health and Welfare’s strategy steering committee to Mr Paterson: The hon. Gentleman is wrong. We discuss this and other issues on 21 February. My noble called a meeting with senior members of the equine Friend Lord de Mauley will be meeting them again next sector before we had discussions with the Commission, week to discuss these matters further. and we all agreed that the system we inherited from his Government is a mess and badly needs to be improved. Caroline Nokes: A single horse passport-issuing He exaggerates the importance of the national equine organisation could improve traceability and bring greater database as he left it, because it did not contain food rigour to the system. What transitional arrangements is chain information. We will work closely with the industry. my right hon. Friend planning for the more than 1 million We have seen success with the dog industry contributing horses in this country that already have passports and to the microchipping programme, and we will work that are far more likely to end up at slaughterhouses with the equine industry to see how it can help to build than next year’s foals? the new database. Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend speaks with real authority Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Is there any on this matter, having been chief executive of the National scope in these proposals to help to combat the growing Pony Society before entering the House. That is one of problem of fly grazing? Farmers and landowners in my the 75 bodies that issues horse passports. She makes the constituency are intimidated by Gypsy and Traveller very sensible point that more than 1 million passports groups who let their horses graze on their land, when have already been issued. We are working with the the only route open to them is civil prosecution. European Commission, which has sensibly suggested that we move to a single database, and we will obviously Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend makes an important work closely with the passport-issuing organisations as point, which I discussed with senior representatives of we work out the transition to the new system. the horse industry at the Royal Windsor horse show on Saturday. There is a real problem with fly grazing, but Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): On we are taking measures forward in the Anti-social Behaviour, the question of having a single process across Europe Crime and Policing Bill, which I hope will lead to a for dealing with horse passport fraud, does the Secretary reduction of the problem. of State believe that it would be harder or easier to Dangerous Dogs tackle such fraud if we left the European Union? 8. Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): What recent Mr Paterson: We are discussing this matter immediately discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for with the European Commission, which has put forward the Home Department on the forthcoming legislation the sensible proposal that member states should have a on dangerous dogs. [155341] central database. The issue might be subject to renegotiation at a later stage, at which point I would love to hear the The Minister of State, Department for Environment, hon. Gentleman’s opinion on whether he would push Food and Rural Affairs (Mr David Heath): May I his party leader to back us in giving the British people a congratulate the hon. Lady again on both the tenor choice on the renegotiated settlement. and content of her Adjournment debate speech on this 779 Oral Answers16 MAY 2013 Oral Answers 780 subject last night? As she will know, there have been Jessica Morden: Home owners in flood-risk communities several discussions between DEFRA and Home Office are becoming increasingly anxious about this Government’s Ministers on how the new measures contained in the failure to get a deal on flood insurance. Two hundred Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill will apply thousand properties in flood-risk areas face the prospect to low-level incidents involving dogs. of either higher premiums or not getting insured at all. Extending the talks is fine, but when are we going to see Julie Hilling: My constituent, 14-year-old Jade Lomas a deal on this issue? Anderson, was the most recent person to be killed by dangerous dogs. Despite the Minister’s assurances, the Mr Paterson: The current arrangements are not Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural guaranteed to hold premiums down. We are seeking an Affairs, all the animal welfare charities, the British arrangement that will last well into the future, will Veterinary Association and the Communication Workers deliver affordability and comprehensiveness, and will Union still believe we need dog control notices to prevent not impose a huge burden on the taxpayer. The hon. dog attacks and do not believe that the current proposals Lady may wish to pop into the Library, or, if she comes will do enough to prevent injuries to people and other to see me later, I will give her a copy of the letter from animals by aggressive dogs. Will the Minister please the ABI. She will see that the tone of the letter demonstrates reconsider his position so that we can do more to that we are very close to an agreement, although there prevent tragedies such as the one that befell Jade and are still some important issues to be resolved. her family from occurring in the future? Mr Bradshaw: A one-month extension is simply not Mr Heath: We certainly need to do everything we can good enough. The Government have had three years in to avoid that sort of tragedy. The fact is that nine which to sort out the problem, and, in the meantime, children and six adults have been killed in dog attacks householders and businesses in Exeter and throughout since 2005 and 12 of those took place on private property. the south-west face huge hikes in their premiums because On the question of what species of injunction we use to of the uncertainty. Can the Secretary of State assure the prevent irresponsible dog ownership, I believe, as does House that both the Prime Minister and the Chancellor the Home Office, that its proposals provide the flexibility understand that no country in the world has a free we need. I do not think that having a proliferation of market in flood insurance, and that there will have to be different measures with different labels, which I am some sort of underwriting if there is to be a deal? afraid was a characteristic of the previous Government’s approach, is necessarily the right way forward. We will Mr Paterson: Having seen the floods in Exeter, I be able to discuss this, however, in the context of the know that this is a key issue there. I hope that the right Bill, and I hope we will come to a satisfactory conclusion. hon. Gentleman will welcome the new schemes, which will be of great benefit to many thousands of his Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): I constituents. I cannot negotiate with him on the Floor believe that assistance dogs are wonderful selfless animals of the House, but we are fully aware that a great many as well providing an invaluable resource for individuals people are vulnerable to increases in premiums, and we with an impairment. Will my hon. Friend confirm that, view this as a real priority. I think that the fact that the as a result of this Government’s proposals, future attacks ABI has told us that only one month is needed for us to on assistance dogs will be considered to be an aggravated conclude our important discussions shows how close we offence? are to an agreement.

Mr Heath: That is absolutely right. It is contained Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): I within the Home Office proposals and the Home Office welcome the news about the ABI, but can my right hon. Bill, and I think it will largely be welcomed across the Friend reassure us that enough time is available for the House. introduction of the legislation that will be required to replace the statement of principles, given the time frame Flood Insurance involved? Can he also reassure us that it will cover home contents insurance for those who live in rented 9. Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): What steps accommodation that is flooded? he is taking on flood insurance. [155343] Mr Paterson: As my hon. Friend—who chairs the 10. Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): What steps he is Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee—is taking on flood insurance. [155344] aware, we will be presenting a water Bill in the summer, and we shall have an opportunity to include clauses that The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and will lead to the legislation that is required. We are Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson): We are at an advanced convinced that, whatever happens, there will have to be stage in negotiations with insurers towards producing a some form of legislation to ensure that the arrangement successor to the statement of principles. Today, the is comprehensive. The detail to which my hon. Friend Association of British Insurers has written to say that refers will be dealt with in the negotiations. insurers will continue to abide by the current agreement for a month beyond the end of June to allow further 17. [155351] Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) time for the outstanding issues to be concluded. I am (Con): I pay tribute to the Secretary of State and his placing a copy of the letter in the Library of the House. Ministers for the hard work they have been doing. We are aiming to conclude negotiations as soon as Does the Secretary of State share my frustration over possible to ensure that households can continue to the fact that it seems to be the ABI and the insurance access affordable flood insurance. industry—one of our great successes in this country— 781 Oral Answers16 MAY 2013 Oral Answers 782 that are exerting the pressure, and holding out for some Secretary of State really believe that that is a price sort of subsidy from the taxpayer in order to secure an worth paying for his ideological support for a free agreement? market in insurance?

Mr Paterson: Having visited my hon. Friend’s Mr Paterson: That is a glorious question, because the constituency during the floods, I am fully aware of the hon. Gentleman could not be more wrong. He describes importance of the issue to her constituents, but it is a the problem with the existing system left because of the complex issue. We are trying to find a long-term solution, incompetence of the Labour Government, who made and to sort out the conundrum of affordability, such a mess for 13 years. We are trying to bring forward comprehensiveness, and not imposing a long-term burden a better system that will deliver affordability to some of on the taxpayer. I pay tribute to the ABI for the constructive our most vulnerable citizens. We will deliver; they didn’t. manner in which it has engaged in the regular meetings Community Orchards and discussions that have taken place. We are not quite there yet, but I hope to be able to come to the House soon to announce a resolution of the problems. 12. Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con): What steps his Department is taking to promote community orchards. [155346] 14. [155348] Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): Has the Secretary of State seen a report, published this The Minister of State, Department for Environment, week, which suggests that rather than there being a Food and Rural Affairs (Mr David Heath): Community once-in-a-thousand years chance of the Thames orchards provide a place for local people to reconnect barrier’s being overwhelmed by rising sea levels, the with nature, and they encourage biodiversity. That is statistic could be once in a hundred years or even once why we have worked across government and with the in 10 years? What are the implications of that for European Union to make it easier for local people to insurance costs in London? establish community orchards.

Mr Paterson: We have begun preliminary investigations Jesse Norman: In Herefordshire, the Bulmer Foundation of the prospects of long-term flooding. As the hon. does outstanding work in opening up community orchards Gentleman knows, there is a possibility of major for disadvantaged people from all backgrounds, and construction projects which may help. only last week Orchard Art was celebrated at a special service in Hereford cathedral. Does the Minister of Mr Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) State share my view that community orchards can have (Con): I welcome the Secretary of State’s announcement. enormous social as well as environmental value, and Residents of Pagham and Middleton-on-Sea, in my will he join me in congratulating the Bulmer Foundation constituency, greatly valued the visit by the Under-Secretary on its Orchard Art initiative? of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), Mr Heath: Herefordshire has the distinction of being on 29 April. Surface water flooding was a huge problem the second best county in the country for production of in my constituency on 10 June last year, and it is now orchards. In 2012, research commissioned by Natural becoming clear that silt build-up in the Pagham and England found that community orchards produced a Aldingbourne rifes exacerbated that flooding. Will my range of valuable benefits over and above the fruit they right hon. Friend encourage the Environment Agency supply. They provide a haven for wildlife, lock up carbon to give greater priority to routine clearing and dredging and enhance the quality of life of the people living of the main river water courses that are so important in around them. I do indeed congratulate the Bulmer preventing and mitigating flood damage? Foundation on the work it is doing and the difference it is making for local communities. Mr Speaker: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman should Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD) rose— seek an Adjournment on the matter. He might even get it. Mr Speaker: Order. I do not wish to be unkind to the hon. Member for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell), but I Mr Paterson: I shall be brief, Mr. Speaker. My hon. want speedily to move on from fruit to bees. I call Friend has raised a very important point. I think that Mr David Nuttall. the Environment Agency has a role to play in clearing major waterways, but I am also talking to the agency Bee Population about speeding up the ability of landowners to look after low-risk waterways, where there is also a problem 13. Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): What in rural areas. recent assessment he has made of the health of the UK’s bee population. [155347] Mr Tom Harris (Glasgow South) (Lab): The Secretary of State has been given a welcome breathing space with The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and the month-long extension of the statement of principles Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson): Threats to the health negotiated by the Labour Government. That, however, of bees are many, and their impacts change from year to will come as little consolation to the company in Calderdale year. Our National Bee Unit’s bee health inspectors that is facing an increase in its flood insurance excess report a mixed picture. While the foulbrood diseases are from the current level of £500 to a staggering £250,000, at historically low levels and exotic pests remain absent, putting jobs and the local economy at risk. Does the the varroa mite is still a major concern. NBU inspectors 783 Oral Answers16 MAY 2013 Oral Answers 784 are assessing what impact almost 12 months of poor created by the recent severe weather, not only through weather is having on our bees and will report later in the immediate support, but by bringing together the banks, year. farming charities and industry to co-ordinate farmers’ short-term access to finance and build the long-term Mr Nuttall: I thank the Secretary of State for that resilience of their businesses. As we seek to enhance answer. Given the importance of bees to our rather than merely protect our natural environment, we environment—and, of course, our orchards—what more are exploring the potential for biodiversity offsetting, so can his Department do to make it easier for people to that we can improve our cherished habitats and wildlife, take up beekeeping and encourage a new generation of while enabling the rural economy to prosper. beekeepers in this country? Rehman Chishti: I thank the Secretary of State for Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to that answer. In Medway this summer, following a successful stress the supreme importance of encouraging the growth bid to the central Government weekly collection support of pollinators all round, and our healthy bees plan scheme, recycling will be collected weekly. What action provides £1.3 million to fund the NBU, which provides are the Government taking to enable more local authorities inspection, training and diagnostic services, which encourage to increase their recycling rates? people to take up beekeeping. Mr Paterson: I thank my hon. Friend for his question. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): In Northern Ireland, The UK is on track to meet its 50% household waste the predicament of the bees is just as critical as it is in recycling target. Decisions on collection regimes are for England. Has the Secretary of State had any discussions local councils to make, taking into account local with the Northern Ireland Assembly, and specifically circumstances, including local logistics, the characteristics the Minister responsible for this area, Michelle O’Neill, of the area and the service that local people want. The to ensure that the United Kingdom strategy is put in Government are encouraging a number of councils to place across the whole of the United Kingdom, including run incentive schemes for various kinds of recycling England and the regions? collection, through the reward and recognition scheme and the weekly collection support scheme. The Government Mr Paterson: This issue is devolved, as the hon. have also introduced higher packaging recycling targets Gentleman knows, but I will be having a meeting with for business, which will help to increase household the devolved Ministers very shortly, and bees and pollination recycling rates. will obviously be one of the issues we will discuss. T3. [155356] Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare) (Con): Speaking (Lab): A draft Bill on banning wild animals in circuses as a beekeeper myself, is the Secretary of State aware of was published by DEFRA in April but did not feature the extreme disappointment of the British Beekeepers in the Queen’s Speech. Will the Secretary of State Association, of which I am a member, at the recent EU confirm whether that Bill will be introduced in this ban on neonicotinoid insecticides and the very grave House in this Session or not? concern that as a result farmers will go back to older, and more damaging, insecticides and that the health of The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Britain’s bees could therefore inadvertently be more at Food and Rural Affairs (Mr David Heath): The Bill has risk now than before the ban was introduced? been introduced to the House for pre-legislative scrutiny. It is in the hands of the Select Committee at the Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend speaks with real authority moment, and I am not going to pre-empt the outcome on this, sadly, given what he says. We argued exactly of the Select Committee’s considerations. that case: that there should not be a precipitate ban until proper analysis has been done of the alternatives. T2. [155355] Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) There may be legally licensed alternatives, such as (Con): May I return the Government to the issue of pyrethroids or organophosphates, but they are not nice, antisocial behaviour caused when a large number of and we were not convinced that the case against dogs are packed into a small garden, which not only neonicotinoids had been made following the analysis of causes a nuisance to neighbours, but is not good for the our field trials. We were supported by eight member dogs themselves? I have written to the Home Office states—important ones such as Hungary, with 2 million about this, the letter has been transferred to DEFRA hectares producing 20,000 tonnes of honey—but, sadly, and I have not yet had a response. May I please have a we were outvoted and the Commission has decided to meeting with the relevant Minister? bring in a two-year ban. Mr Heath: I am sure that that will be possible. The Topical Questions relevant Minister is Lord de Mauley, to whom I will communicate my hon. Friend’s request. I hope it will be T1. [155354] Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) acceded to. (Con): If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): Almost a year ago, the then Secretary of State told me The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and that a deal on flood insurance was imminent. Is not the Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson): DEFRA’s priorities real villain of the piece here the Lib Dem Chief Secretary are growing the rural economy, improving the environment, to the Treasury, who has blocked a deal being reached? and safeguarding animal and plant health. In recent Is this not another example of a shambolic Government, weeks, we have helped farmers respond to the pressures who have had three years to sort this matter out and 785 Oral Answers16 MAY 2013 Oral Answers 786 now have to get a further month’s extension, with there Mr Heath: I certainly do agree. The clear intention of still being no guarantee that a deal will be in place after CAP money is to support those areas where the market that extra month? does not provide, as I know my hon. Friend would agree. But we need a thriving agricultural industry in Mr Paterson: That is complete nonsense. The Chief this country, and that means that we ensure that for the Secretary and senior Ministers are all working closely future we have the food security that this country desperately together on this issue. I am sorry that we may have needs. nearly shot the Labour party’s fox. We are working closely with the Association of British Insurers and we Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Calcium, iron and other will deliver a good deal. nutrients have been added to white flour in this country for over 65 years, and it is very worrying to hear that the T4. [155357] Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): What is Government are considering possibly scrapping that. my right hon. Friend doing to make sure that the new Does the Secretary of State see that as an important single farm payment forms are as short as possible? addition to nutrition for families, particularly in hard-pressed times, or simply a regulatory burden that he wants to Mr Heath: That is a very interesting point, because get rid of? one of the main principles underlying our negotiation for common agricultural policy reform has been that Mr Heath: We are considering a review of the national whatever comes out has to be simple and deliverable. rules relating to bread and flour as they apply to England. One of the mistakes made back in 2005 was that we had We held a public consultation seeking views on possible an over-complicated system and a lack of resource to deregulatory options, which closed on 13 March 2013. deliver it, and, as a result, we had a shambles in the We are analysing the 47 responses that we received, in Rural Payments Agency. conjunction with the Department of Health. We are committed to ensuring that any policy decision on the Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): In answer to removal of mandatory fortification will take into account previous questions from me about how we can protect an assessment of the health impacts, the impact on people from the adverse effects of low-energy lighting, industry and the implications for other parts of the Ministers indicated that they would need to get support United Kingdom and the interests of consumers. We from other European partners. What actual steps have intend to announce our decision before the summer they been taking in the past six months to do that? recess.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for T7. [155360] Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): Pembrokeshire) (Con): Is the Minister aware of any This matter is dealt with by Lord de Mauley, and I will international examples of disease control that could be ensure that the hon. Lady gets a detailed analysis of applicable in the bid to control bovine TB in the UK? what we have been up to. Mr Paterson: In opposition, I visited the USA; I went T5. [155358] Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): What to Michigan. Last month, I went to Australia and New part are the Government playing in ending the practice Zealand and I shall shortly be visiting the Republic of of fish discards? Ireland. What they all have in common, in getting rid of this horrible disease, which is a zoonosis, is that they Richard Benyon: I am delighted to report that at bear down on disease in cattle and they bear down on 6.15 am yesterday we got an agreement that the Council disease where there is a reservoir in wildlife. That is of Ministers is now in a position to do a deal with the exactly what we intend to do. Parliament that means we will, at last, see a meaningful end to the practice of discarding perfectly edible fish. Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): In recent This is part of a radical reform of the common fisheries days, it has emerged that burgers served in Leicester policy, which Members from all parts of the House have schools that were classified as halal contained pork. been calling for for a great many years. There have been similar examples elsewhere in the country. Will the Secretary of State undertake to have urgent Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): What is the discussions with the Food Standards Agency to ensure Government’s estimate of the costs of policing the that halal food is indeed halal food? badger cull, and who will pay for it? Mr Heath: This is a matter of great concern to Mr Heath: We have made it very clear that this consumers; I perfectly understand that. That is one Department will cover the marginal costs to the police reason why we have had meetings with the religious forces involved of policing the cull, when it takes place. authorities, and of course with the Food Standards Obviously, the level of costs will be entirely dependent Agency.It is the responsibility of manufacturers, processors on the level of illegal activity in the areas in which the and retailers to ensure that what they provide is what cull is taking place. they say they are providing. Certification is a matter for the religious authorities; that is not a Government issue, T6. [155359] Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) but we will work closely with them to ensure that what (LD): The Secretary of State often makes reference to people eat is what it says on the label. the common agricultural policy delivering public goods for public money. Does he agree that the delivery of T8. [155361] David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): Hill increased amounts of safe, high-quality, affordable farmers across Britain were badly affected by the severe food from this country’s farms is one such public good? weather at the end of March and in early April. Some 787 Oral Answers16 MAY 2013 Oral Answers 788 of the worst hit were in Macclesfield. Will my hon. T10. [155363] Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): Friend confirm to the House that the payment process Having recently met my National Farmers Union will be clearly communicated, and that the very branch on a farm in Barrowford to discuss the welcome funds will be available at the earliest challenges that many are facing, with many leaving the opportunity? industry, what steps is the Minister taking to encourage new entrants to the industry? Mr Heath: I certainly will. All the key information Mr Heath: That is absolutely crucial. We need to was announced yesterday; the hon. Gentleman may be attract the best and the brightest into farming, the other aware of that. The National Fallen Stock Company will land-based industries and the food industry. It is the administer the scheme both for farmers who are members biggest manufacturing industry in this country. That is of the company and those who are not. Farmers should why a short time ago I launched a future for farming visit the National Fallen Stock Company website or call review, which is under way. I hope that it will provide us its telephone helpline to get the details and check whether with a clear picture of where the barriers are and where they are eligible. Applications must be received by 30 the opportunities are for attracting people into these June and payments are expected to be made by the end industries. of July. Mr Speaker: We are extremely grateful to the ministerial Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): The team and to colleagues. Government said that the pilot badger culls are being carried out to test whether badgers can be killed humanely. ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE They still have not released the criteria by which the cull will be assessed to ascertain whether it is humane. When The hon. Member for South West Devon, representing will those criteria be published—or is the Minister the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, holding them back because he knows perfectly well that was asked— they will demonstrate that it is not possible to kill them Individual Electoral Registration in a humane way? 1. Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): What progress Mr Heath: It is always interesting when people know the Electoral Commission is making on preparations the results of a trial before it is carried out. These trials for the full confirmation test in the transition to will indicate whether it is possible to effect this cull in a individual electoral registration. [155324] humane, a safe and an effective way. That will be reviewed by an independent panel, quite independent of Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon): The Government, the Department and those taking part in the cull, and not the Electoral Commission, are responsible for the we will then assess that and report to the House in due set-up and delivery of the full confirmation test, which course. is likely to start in July. The commission will be evaluating and reporting on the process and providing electoral registration officers with guidance and tools to support T9. [155362] Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): them in the test. The commission’s evaluation will focus Pillar two funding of the post-2014 CAP arrangements on how the technical system for transferring and handling are vital to continue the rural development in the Vale the data has performed and it will then make an overall of Glamorgan. Local decision making and assessment of whether everything is in place for the administration has been key to that success in the past. successful delivery of individual electoral registration in This is at risk. Will the Secretary of State do everything October. possible to ensure that it is maintained? Wayne David: Does the Electoral Commission agree Mr Heath: The Welsh Assembly Government are that there is real concern out there about the IT system developing the next rural development programme for that is being used in the process of confirmation, and Wales. We are in a difficult position in that we have not that it is very important to allow sufficient time for the quite reached the conclusion of the negotiations. When transition to IER to ensure that things are done properly? the European Commission confirms the UK allocation Mr Streeter: The hon. Gentleman raises an important of pillar two funding, we will be in a better position to point. The IT system is extremely important. That is assess the funding available for each of the UK’s why a full and proper assessment will be made in good Administrations. time before IER is introduced in 2014. I remind him and the House that, in any event, at the 2015 election all Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): Does those on the register in 2014 will be automatically the Minister think that the fortification of bread and transferred, so there is some safeguard. flour with nutrients is a burden on business or an important way of ensuring that hard-pressed families CHURCH COMMISSIONERS facing the cost of living crisis get the nutrition that they need? The hon. Member for Banbury, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked— Mr Heath: I think we should hold a consultation, listen to the results and then reach a decision. That is Church Bells what we are doing. 2. Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): What support the Church Commissioners provide to refurbish church Mr Speaker: Very briefly, I call Mr Andrew Stephenson. bells. [155325] 789 Oral Answers16 MAY 2013 Oral Answers 790

The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Tony Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Will Baldry): Church bells are an important part of our the hon. Gentleman send the House’s congratulations national character and heritage, and the Church of to NAO staff, who do such a good job, particularly in England has some limited grant aid available for work bursting the bubble on High Speed 2? They have shown to bells and bell frames that are of historic interest. This what an absolute waste of public money it will be. It will is distributed by the Church Buildings Council, which cost approximately £50 billion, which could be spent also provides advice to help churches approach other regenerating our towns and cities. funders, including the Heritage Lottery Fund. Mr Leigh: Of course NAO staff have no views on the Andrew Stephenson: In April I joined the Colne ringers policy implications of HS2, but I know that they will for a practice night in the bell tower of St Bartholomew’s ensure that it, like all public sector projects, is properly church in Colne. The main reason for my visit was to investigated to ensure that there is no waste or incompetence. help publicise the ringers’ work and encourage other people to join to help ring the church’s eight bells. However, while I was there it was clear that the installation is showing signs of its age, with much of it dating back CHURCH COMMISSIONERS to the early 1800s. The ringers hope they can refurbish the bells for their 200th birthday in 2014. Is there any help that the Church Commissioners can provide? The hon. Member for Banbury, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked— Sir Tony Baldry: In addition to the possible grant aid Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill for the bells at St Bartholomew’s church in Colne from the Church Buildings Council and the Heritage Lottery 4. Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): Fund, which I have already mentioned, bell frames are What recent discussions the Church Commissioners eligible for support under the listed places of worship have had with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media grant scheme to reclaim the cost of VAT on them. and Sport on the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill. Useful advice and assistance are also available from [155328] county and diocesan ringing associations. The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Tony Baldry): The Secretary of State has been generous with PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMISSION her time, both to Church of England representatives and me, in discussing issues arising from that particular legislation. The Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission was asked— Miss McIntosh: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that reply. Will he take this opportunity to update the National Audit Office House on what progress has been made on whether chaplains will be allowed not only to decline to conduct 3. Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): How many same-sex marriages in a church, but to promote the staff the National Audit Office employs; and what values of traditional marriage? information the NAO collects on their previous employment. [155326] Sir Tony Baldry: During the two days of debate next week the House will have to consider a number of issues Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough): The National Audit relating to freedom of conscience. It will also have to Office currently employs the equivalent of 870 full-time consider the amendments relating to the possibility of staff. It collects detailed information on an individual’s humanist weddings, which would completely change employment and education history when recruiting staff. the basis of English marriage law from one that is building-based to one that is celebrant-based. I think it Mr Hollobone: The National Audit Office undertakes is important to remember that in Scotland, where that a lot of good work investigating many public bodies. happens, pagan weddings and weddings in other formats Does my hon. Friend think the make-up of his staff is are now taking place, which I am not sure we would sufficiently broad, from all sorts of different sectors in necessarily want to see in England. Likewise, the House the private and public world, for them to do their job will have to take a view on whether having heterosexual effectively? civil partnerships will or will not enhance the concept of marriage. Those are all issues that the House will have Mr Leigh: Yes, I do. As an audit institution, the to consider during the two days next week. The NAO’s core accounting skills are obviously provided Government, as I understand it, have said throughout through qualified accountants, many of whom join as that they wish to see the institution of marriage trainees. The NAO currently employs about 330 qualified strengthened. I hope that that will be the test by which accountants and 200 trainees, graduate and school-leaver, the House addresses the issues over the two days next from all sectors and all types of society. It also recruits week. staff from public and private sector backgrounds to provide operational expertise and disciplines, including Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Will the hon. economics, statistics, information and communications Gentleman confirm that in the Church of England’s technology, banking and finance. In addition, it has an formal evidence to the Bill Committee, given orally, the active inward and outward secondment programme to Bishop of Norwich made it quite clear that the Church enhance its skills and experience base. was perfectly happy with the existing and unamended 791 Oral Answers16 MAY 2013 Oral Answers 792 safeguards that the Government have provided in the the Church of England is an organisation that exists for Bill? What damage does he think it would do to everyone other than itself. It therefore has a particularly the established status of the Church of England if the important mission in constituencies such as that of my bishops in the other place were to use their privileged right hon. Friend, who makes an extremely good suggestion. position to try to thwart legislation that had the overwhelming support of this House in a free vote? Church Attendance Sir Tony Baldry: Members of the House of Lords, 6. Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): irrespective of where they come from, are Members of What recent assessment the Church Commissioners Parliament, and the other place is a revising Chamber have made of Church of England attendance figures. and has perfectly good constitutional arrangements. The right hon. Gentleman will not be insensitive to the [155330] fact that there are still concerns about, for example, the position of Church of England or faith schools that Sir Tony Baldry: I am glad to be able to report to the wish to teach traditional concepts of marriage and House that in 2011, the last year for which figures are whether they will be protected under the Bill. I am quite available, 2,618,000 people attended church on Christmas sure that, from the position he adopts and comes from, day—an increase of nearly 15% on the previous year. it must be in his interest as much as it is in anyone else’s Also, baptisms are up by 3%. This is encouraging news that we get this legislation right. showing that there is still strong participation in Church of England services across the country. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the predicament of marriage registrars Andrew Selous: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for because of their religious beliefs. Is he aware that the that reply, which gives the lie to the general myth that is Dutch Government have recently declared in favour of sometimes propagated that church attendance is falling. conscientious objectors? What discussions has he had In fact, many churches are full to overflowing, they are with the Government to ensure that marriage registrars often using the Alpha course or Christianity Explored, and their employment and conscientious beliefs are and there is much to be encouraged about. secured? Sir Tony Baldry: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. Sir Tony Baldry: The hon. Gentleman raises another Many congregations of different backgrounds are growing issue that I am sure will be discussed or touched on over throughout the country. We need to understand why the first two days of next week—the question of registrars that growth is happening and how we can ensure that who are unhappy with or opposed to conducting same-sex other parts of the Church in other parts of the country weddings. can mirror it.

Church of England Religious Freedom

5. Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) 7. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): What steps the (LD): What steps the Church Commissioners are Church Commissioners are taking to ensure the planning to take to support the future work of the protection of religious freedom. [155331] Church of England. [155329] Sir Tony Baldry: The Church of England is working The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Tony on an international and a domestic level to protect Baldry): The Church Commissioners seek to use their religious freedoms. The Church is in regular contact funds to increase spiritual and numerical growth in the with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office on areas of Church, reshaping and reimagining its ministry for shared concern in many countries that feature in the the next century and focusing resources on areas of the “Countries of Concern” section of the FCO’s human country with the greatest need and opportunity. rights and democracy report.

Simon Hughes: In the few days before the Church Robert Halfon: Does my hon. Friend agree that the celebrates its birthday, we have seen the recent figures Christian Brethren, who carry out many charitable acts showing the very encouraging signs of more baptisms, that benefit the public, have been discriminated against more thanksgivings for childbirth, more christenings, by the Charities Commission, which has significant more young people and children going to church, and implications for religious freedom? They have been many dioceses with greater attendance numbers. Will refused charitable status, and that has resulted in a the Church Commissioners consider trying to support lengthy appeals process. Does this not have wider every parish in reaching out once a year to every household, implications for other faith groups? irrespective of its faith, to welcome it to its local Church of England parish church? Sir Tony Baldry: I am sorry to disappoint my hon. Friend, but I cannot add anything to the answer that I Sir Tony Baldry: My right hon. Friend makes an gave him in March, which is that Parliament decided extremely good point that I will certainly convey to the that in respect of every charity—including the Church Archbishop of Canterbury and others. The new Archbishop Commissioners, who are themselves a charity bound by of Canterbury has made it clear that he sees one of the the Charities Commission—there had to be a public main purposes of his ministry as encouraging the mission benefit test. The Charities Commission is a statutory and growth of the Church of England in every part of body that has to decide whether there is a public benefit. the country. As Archbishop Temple once pointed out, If there is a dispute over that, I suspect that in due 793 Oral Answers16 MAY 2013 Oral Answers 794 course it will have to be a matter for judicial review. I and during the transition to individual electoral registration. understand that this matter will be tested in the High These will be targeted at countries with the largest Court later this year. expatriate communities.

Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): I am afraid that Mr Speaker: Very briefly, Mr Fabricant. the hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) is one of the very gullible Members of this House who have been Michael Fabricant: That is encouraging news. Will seduced by a cult that is a tiny part of the Plymouth they be able to vote in an EU in/out referendum? Brethren. Their real name is the Exclusive Brethren, or Mr Streeter: The franchise for an in/out referendum Hales Brethren, and they were, rightly, the only religion will be set out in any legislation that authorises it. If my of 1,178 to be refused charitable status by the Charities hon. Friend wishes to make sure that expats have the Commission. This was the most egregious example of vote, he ought to study the draft Bill carefully and make intensive, million-pound lobbying by hundreds of people representations to the House. that I have experienced in my 25 years in the House. It is a shame that the hon. Gentleman and others have been taken in. CHURCH COMMISSIONERS

Sir Tony Baldry: My hon. Friend is not in any way The hon. Member for Banbury, representing the Church gullible—he is a much loved hon. Member of this Commissioners, was asked— House. I am surprised about this, because I would have English Baccalaureate thought that every Member, including the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn), would be sensitive to 9. Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East the needs of religious freedom. I understand, though, Cleveland) (Lab): If he will have discussions with the that as he is a Welshman coming from a country where Secretary of State for Education on the merits of the Church was not only disestablished but disendowed, including GCSE religious studies within the English it is not surprising that there is not that sensitivity to baccalaureate. [155333] religious freedom. The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Tony Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): Am I much Baldry): The education division of the Church of England loved? has continually put the case for support for religious education as an integral part of the national curriculum Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon) (Con): Yes. to officials and Ministers at the Department for Education. Tom Blenkinsop: Does the hon. Gentleman share the concerns of religious studies teachers in my constituency that the decision not to include the subject in the EBacc ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE will have a negative on the number of young people taking it at GCSE? The hon. Member for South West Devon, representing Sir Tony Baldry: Ido. the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission was asked— Mr Speaker: Whatever anybody thinks of any other Member, I think the House will agree that the burden Overseas Voters on the Second Church Estates Commissioner is immense and the learning and reading extensive. We are grateful 8. Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): What further to the hon. Gentleman. steps have been taken to make it easier for those eligible Before we move on to the next business, I inform the to vote overseas to register. [155332] House that nominations for candidates for the post of Chair of the Backbench Business Committee closed at Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon): The Electoral 5 o’clock yesterday afternoon. Only one nomination Commission will run online public awareness campaigns was received and therefore a ballot will not be taking aimed at overseas electors ahead of the 2014 European place. I congratulate, upon her re-election as Chair of parliamentary elections, the 2015 UK general election the Backbench Business Committee, Natascha Engel. 795 16 MAY 2013 Business of the House 796

Business of the House Three months on, we have learned that the UK will have to pay £770 million extra. May we have a statement from the Prime Minister on the budget, and may we 10.37 am seek an assurance from him that it will not go up again? Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): I wonder if the Last week, as all the grandeur of the state opening of Leader of the House will give us the business for a Parliament unfolded, the Government presented a united couple of days next week. front and revealed a mouse of a legislative programme. Before the Cap of Maintenance was even back in the The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Andrew wardrobe, Tory Eurosceptics had tabled a motion regretting Lansley): The business for next week will be as follows: their own Government’s Queen’s Speech. No. 10 said that it was “relaxed”. MONDAY 20 MAY—Remaining stages of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill (Day 1). By the weekend, the Tory rebellion had gathered pace and the Cabinet joined in. Both the Education Secretary TUESDAY 21 MAY—Conclusion of the remaining stages and the Defence Secretary announced that they wanted of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill, followed by out of the European Union, but that, sadly, the Liberal motion to approve a European document relating to Democrats would not let them have a vote on it. The Syria. hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) proclaimed The business for the week commencing 3 June will be: that if the rebellion ended the coalition Government, MONDAY 3JUNE—Remaining stages of the Energy “so be it”. The hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay Bill (Day 1). (Mr Baron) pronounced that the Prime Minister’s referendum plan was “not yet believable”. Meanwhile, TUESDAY 4JUNE—Conclusion of the remaining stages the right hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames) of the Energy Bill. denounced the rebels as “irresponsible” and “offensive”, WEDNESDAY 5JUNE—Opposition Day [1st Allotted and the Minister without Portfolio, the right hon. and Day]. There will be a debate on an Opposition motion. learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke) said that it Subject to be announced. would be a catastrophe to quit the EU. THURSDAY 6JUNE—There will be a debate on a motion As the Tory party descended into chaos, the Prime relating to student visas, followed by general debate on Minister shared with us his unique concept of firm pollinators and pesticides. The subjects for these debates leadership. A leader should proclaim that he is “intensely have been nominated by the Backbench Business relaxed”, leave the country, blame the Liberal Democrats, Committee. panic, and rush to publish an entirely spurious private The provisional business for the week commencing Member’s Bill that contains no implementation clause 10 June will include: and no money resolution. MONDAY 10 JUNE—Second Reading of the Anti-Social In 2006, the Prime Minister said that the Conservative Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill. party should stop “banging on about Europe”. In 2009, he said that his party’s position on Europe was “settled” I should also like to inform the House that the and promised that he business in Westminster Hall for 6 June will be: “will not have an undisciplined team whoever it is. Full stop.” THURSDAY 6JUNE—Debate on the ninth report of the However, last night 116 of his Back Benchers voted Home Affairs Select Committee on Drugs: Breaking against him in the 35th Tory rebellion on Europe in this the Cycle. Parliament. If that is not an undisciplined team and a May I also take this opportunity to be among the Prime Minister who follows his party rather than leads, first to congratulate the Chair of the Backbench Business will the Leader of the House tell me what is? Committee on her re-election? In last night’s rebellion, 13 Parliamentary Private Secretaries voted against the Government. I would like Ms Eagle: I thank the Leader of the House for to draw the attention of the Leader of the House to a announcing the business for next week and the business clause in the ministerial code: that will follow yet another recess. I also add my “Parliamentary Private Secretaries are expected to support the congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Government in important divisions in the House. No Parliamentary North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel) on her unanimous Private Secretary who votes against the Government can retain re-election without an election as Chair of the Backbench his or her position.” Business Committee, which is to her enormous credit. That seems to be fairly clear. Will the Leader of the Next week the House will return, albeit briefly, to House confirm that those PPSs will be sacked, or is the debate the remaining stages of the Marriage (Same Sex Prime Minister going to rewrite the ministerial code? Couples) Bill. This will ensure that the historic progress In light of the Tories’ panicked Back-Bench EU Bill, on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender equality I also want to draw the attention of the Leader of accomplished by the previous Government will be House to some comments that he might remember consolidated. I thank the Leader of the House for making to the Procedure Committee on private Members’ making two days available for Report and Third Reading. Bills a few weeks ago. He said that Will he consider doing that for other Bills? After all, his “if a Government really wants a Bill and it is contentious, it legislative programme is hardly packed. should find time in the legislative programme for it.” Back in February, the Prime Minister was triumphant Am I correct, therefore, that the Government do not about his EU budget deal. He tweeted: want this Bill at all? “Today we agreed the first ever cut in the EU budget and the In “The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte”, British rebate is safe. This is a great deal for Britain.” Karl Marx wrote that history repeats itself, first as 797 Business of the House16 MAY 2013 Business of the House 798

[Ms Angela Eagle] is that what is in the Queen’s Speech is agreed Government policy. There may be no Government policy on something tragedy, second as farce. With the antics last night, we that was not in the Queen’s Speech, so of course Ministers are firmly in the farcical stage and we have a Conservative could not vote for it, but everybody else was able to vote party determined to prove that Karl Marx was right. as they saw fit, which is precisely what they did last When the economy is flatlining, living standards are night. falling, and people up and down Britain are suffering real pain, people will not forgive a Government who are Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): too focused on their own obsessions to address the May we have a debate on the potential misuse of money challenges that the country faces. by the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority? IPSA appears to have employed incredibly expensive Mr Lansley: I am grateful to the shadow Leader of lawyers from Matrix Chambers in pursuing what looks the House for her response to the forthcoming business. like a county court action. That can be explained only if it is trying to intimidate the Members involved, which On the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill, we are would be quite improper. May we have a response on providing two days on Report. I remind the hon. Lady that from those on the Front Benches? that under the last Government, there were Sessions in which virtually no Bills were given two days on Report. Mr Lansley: If I may, I will say to my right hon. Friend that because this matter relates to a particular Ms Eagle: We had more Bills. case, I do not want to talk about it in any detail from the Dispatch Box. For his convenience, and that of the Mr Lansley: That is not the case. Seventeen Bills were House, I note that there is scope for the Speaker’s announced in the Gracious Speech last week, which is Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards in line with the single year numbers we saw in a number Authority, of which I am a member, to ask questions of Sessions under the last Government, including 2008 about how IPSA undertakes its activities and the value and 2009. As part of the reforms of this House, and of for money it achieves. We held public evidence sessions improving scrutiny, we gave 14 Bills two days on Report last Tuesday, which of course affords an opportunity over the last two Sessions, and we are proud that the for IPSA to be held accountable. business I have just announced will give both the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill and the Energy Bill two days Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Does the Leader on Report. The hon. Lady is barking up completely the of the House recall that a few weeks ago after the fire at wrong tree. Daw Mill colliery I asked him for a statement on the The Prime Minister was told by the Labour party coal industry, with particular reference to UK Coal, that he would not deliver a reduction in the EU budget, which owns another two pits—Thoresby and Kellingley? but he did deliver one. As a consequence, our rebate is I drew his attention specifically to the fact that because protected and we will have the opportunity to debate Daw Mill was the big money pit owned by UK Coal, that in due course. Once the decision is through the the other two pits could be in serious jeopardy. More Council, we will be able to bring forward a Bill to ratify importantly, it could cost the Government up to the EU own resources decision. £450 million to pay out for the pensions and redundancies The legislative programme is not a mouse. Not only if UK Coal goes under. Would it make a lot of sense for was it a full programme, but We are making good this Government, this coalition, to say to the coal progress with it in a way that is, I think, exemplary. Ten authority that they should be allowed to take over the Bills have been published in the week since the Gracious remaining assets of UK Coal and save what remains of Speech: the Offender Rehabilitation Bill, which is important the coal industry—in other words, to nationalise it? as it tackles an area of reform that has not been tackled previously; the Care Bill, which is important and cannot Mr Lansley: I do remember the questions the hon. be called an insignificant piece of legislation; the Intellectual Gentleman and other hon. Members have asked on that Property Bill; the Local Audit and Accountability Bill; subject. I repeat that I cannot, in the House, remotely the Mesothelioma Bill; the Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime enter a discussion of the commercial prospects of UK and Policing Bill; the Pensions Bill; the Northern Ireland Coal. However, I again say that the Minister of State, (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill; the High Speed Rail Department of Energy and Climate Change, my right (Preparation) Bill; and the Gambling (Licensing and hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon), Advertising) Bill. All have been published within a week is closely engaged. I will encourage him to correspond of the Gracious Speech and that is a substantial programme with the hon. Gentleman and other Members who are of legislation. directly involved. The hon. Lady’s final points were all, in one way or another, about the vote last night, which in all respects Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): My right proceeded from a complete misapprehension. The point hon. Friend is aware that the Foreign Office is undertaking is that the Government did not have a policy on whether an initiative on preventing sexual violence. The Department there should be an EU referendum Bill, and so voting for International Development has a four-pillar programme for the amendment last night—which many of my to help women and girls worldwide, which is encouraging, colleagues in the Conservative party did, as did Labour particularly in conflict areas, such as the Democratic Members and a Liberal Democrat Member—was not Republic of the Congo, where women and girls are voting against Government policy because the Government particularly vulnerable. My right hon. Friend the Prime did not have a policy on that. Therefore, the rest of the Minister will shortly chair the G8. May we have a hon. Lady’s argument does not follow. The simple point statement on how he will produce his initiatives? Preventing 799 Business of the House16 MAY 2013 Business of the House 800 sexual violence is important for the world. Will the deputy, or another senior member of staff. It is easy to Prime Minister also ensure that we do not forget that see that the potential for damage to a school’s reputation boys and men also need education to stop sexual violence? might cause any senior member of staff to be conflicted, and not to pass such concerns on to the police or local Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend will recall that specific authority. Will the Leader of the House provide time mention was made in the Gracious Speech of the priority for a debate on the merits of introducing a legal obligation that the Government give to the prevention of sexual on all teachers and other staff in schools to report violence in conflict worldwide. Indeed, the Foreign Secretary directly to the police or a local authority designated recently updated the House from the Dispatch Box on officer? the wide range of measures that have been taken in that respect, as has the Secretary of State for International Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes an important Development. If I may, I will see what opportunities point. I will ask my hon. Friends at the Department for there might be for the House to be given further updates, Education to respond directly to her, but from my particularly in anticipation of the fact that the matter recollection—I was a member of the Standing Committee will be part of the agenda we put forward for the G8. on the Protection of Children Act 1999—the barring Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): scheme applies not simply to acts of negligence or Has the right hon. Gentleman seen early-day motion 79, abuse, but to omissions in relation to acts of abuse. In which is in my name and the names of other hon. that sense, the guidance is quite strong. People who are Members, on Contour Homes and the Ferguson Court in positions of responsibility for children should act if lift in my constituency? they see evidence of abuse or they will risk being barred from working in a responsible position. [That this House condemns Contour Homes for its culpable negligence with regard to Ferguson Court in the Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): The constituency of the right hon. Member for Manchester, Leader of the House will share my concern that I did Gorton; regards it as inexcusable that its failure in its not come high up in the ballot for private Members’ duty has meant that the lift at Ferguson Court has been Bills. I will content myself with an early debate, if he out of order since October 2012; understands that, due to could arrange it, on the accountancy and auditing its incompetence and lack of concern, the lift will not be profession. Is he not concerned by the increasing evidence repaired or replaced until 30 July at the earliest, a period that the auditors of great banks have failed us? They of nine months in which elderly and disabled tenants have never blew the whistle and they never did the auditing been unable to cope to the extent that some of them have job properly. We are now in a situation where KPMG’s been unable to leave their homes; takes the view that senior partner is the chair of the new Financial Conduct Contour Homes has failed in its duty and role as social Authority. Will he arrange an early debate so that the landlords; and calls on the relevant authorities to consider House can scrutinise this scandal? actively whether Contour Homes should be allowed to continue as social landlords.] Mr Lansley: Given the range of aspects involved, the That social housing organisation has been so negligent hon. Gentleman may find that this is a suitable subject in its duties towards tenants of that block of flats, many not only for an Adjournment debate, but for consideration of whom are elderly and disabled, that they have had no by the Backbench Business Committee, given its lift since last October. Despite the way in which I have reconstitution. Members across the House with a range pushed Contour Homes, they will definitely not have a of interests in the auditing process would then have the lift before 30 July. Contour Homes is a social landlord. opportunity to air them. Will the right hon. Gentleman give us an opportunity to consider the matter, and ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): Communities and Local Government to look into whether This week, on the anniversary of President Hollande’s such an organisation—if it can be blessed with such a presidency, it was announced that France has entered word—is fit to run social housing? a triple-dip recession. Can we therefore please have a Mr Lansley: I had an opportunity to look at that debate on the impact on UK exporters of the economic early-day motion as the right hon. Gentleman asked his policies currently being pursued in France, such as: question. He once again commendably raises the interests increased Government spending, increased Government of his constituents. I can see how distressing the problem borrowing and the implementation of a 75% top rate of must be for them. Social landlords in that sense should tax—an economic approach consistently and repeatedly be accountable not least through their contract with supported by the Opposition? social services in respect of many of those residents. Ministers from the Department for Communities and Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes an interesting Local Government will answer questions in the House point. Of course, it is a little early for the Opposition to on Monday 3 June, which might afford the right hon. decide the subject of their Opposition day debate on Gentleman an opportunity to ask a question. The relevant 5 June. Given what my hon. Friend says, they might like authorities and Contour Homes will have taken note of to have a debate on the policies they wish to pursue. A what he has said in the House. Perhaps the situation will year ago, the Leader of the Opposition said, “What have been rectified by Monday 3 June, but if not, he can President Hollande is seeking to do in France, I want to ask another question of my hon. Friends. do in Britain.” Would that not be a suitable subject? Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): Those who work in schools Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): The Leader of the who suspect or witness abuse are guided, but not required House will know that last Friday, at a Special Immigration by law, to report their concerns via local procedures to a Appeals Commission hearing, Abu Qatada made an school’s designated senior member of staff, his or her offer to leave the country voluntarily if the treaty with 801 Business of the House16 MAY 2013 Business of the House 802

[Keith Vaz] issues of civil disorder and the death penalty. I think that many colleagues would appreciate an extended Jordan was ratified by the Jordanians. Given that it has debate on those countries and their policies. taken seven years and successive Home Secretaries to remove Abu Qatada, can he tell the House whether that Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for offer has been accepted? When can the House have an making an important point, not least in referring to the opportunity to debate the treaty before it is ratified? tragic events in Dhaka, by which many of us have been deeply shocked. All those issues, including the elections Mr Lansley: I fear that I cannot give the right hon. in Pakistan, demonstrate the importance of good Gentleman the answer he is looking for, but I will of governance and democracy in many of these countries. course be in contact with the Home Secretary to see if I In Pakistan, we have seen for the first time the democratic can procure an answer for him. election of a new Government following a full term from a previous democratically elected Government, David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): Over the which is positive. I hope that there will be an opportunity last decade, transport capital spending in London has for a debate on all these countries, but it might be been about 10 times that of the regions. Much, but not appropriate if he or others were to seek such a debate all of that, has been caused by spending on Crossrail. from the Backbench Business Committee. The prospect Recent comments by the Mayor of London imply that of the upcoming Commonwealth Heads of Government he has momentum and Government support for Crossrail meeting would be a good basis for an application. 2. Will the Leader of the House confirm that there will be no money spent on even preparatory work for Crossrail Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ 2 without a full debate in this House? Co-op): I think I recall the Leader of the House saying on a previous occasion that he is a regular train traveller, Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend refers to the momentum so he will be aware that, at least according to train of the Mayor of London, which is, frankly, unstoppable. announcements now, trains do not stop at stations On his point about infrastructure investment, I hope he anymore. Instead, they have “calling points” and knows that, in addition to the investment in London, “embarkation stops”, and apparently some trains now which is vital to the economy of the country as a whole, “platform”. May we have a statement from the Secretary we are proceeding with many important investments in of State for Transport about the adoption of a universal other parts of the country, including £1.8 million for term for station stops, because as well as irritating local authority major schemes, and the pinchpoint fund, regular travellers, the other terms used confuse tourists? which provides £317 million for 123 projects across the Perhaps I could make a bid for a simple term: could we country. Of course, the benefits from the biggest item of call them “stations”? infrastructure planning, High Speed 2, will assist major cities right across the country, including those in the Mr Lansley: It is a good question. I will ask my hon. north-west. Friends in the Department for Transport about it, although they might be loth to standardise everything in the Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab): This is export week. railways. I must say I agree with the hon. Gentleman, If the Government are serious about promoting exports, though, about the announcements. I particularly liked why did they not arrange for a debate on them in the the announcement made one morning when we arrived House during export week, and may we have one soon? late at King’s Cross: “We apologise to our customers”—not passengers, of course—“for the delay to the service this Mr Lansley: The hon. Gentleman will know that morning. This was due to the late running of trains.” It matters relating to growth were entirely relevant to was a statement of the obvious. yesterday’s Queen’s Speech debate on growth and the economy and that jobs and business, including export Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Parliament matters, were debated last Friday—I am sure he was in has been at the centre of political debate this week, his place for that debate—so the subject of exports has partly thanks to you, Mr Speaker, for selecting yesterday’s been relevant to debates in the past week. He is right, amendment. What has gone unnoticed about the vote, though, that exports are essential. If we are to get however, is that 117 coalition MPs, both Conservative growth, we cannot rely, as has been the case in the past, and Liberal Democrat, voted for the amendment, but on debt-fuelled growth, whether Government debt or only 36 voted against. May we have a statement next consumer debt. We need more balanced and sustainable week from the appropriate Minister to explain how we growth, not least by winning in the global race, and that get Government legislation introduced? Does the Deputy is what we have set out to do. Prime Minister have a complete veto, despite what coalition MPs voted for? Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD): To give the House a break from the Leader of the Mr Lansley: I do not think we need a statement, House’s colleagues’ obsessing about Europe, may we because I can give my hon. Friend an explanation now. have, before the summer break, a serious debate about Government Bills are introduced on the basis of agreed the Commonwealth countries and south Asia? There is Government policy and the relative priority of the a controversial Commonwealth conference in Sri Lanka, various measures. In this case, the issue is that where there has been a recent terrible tragedy with wider two parties are in a coalition Government, it requires implications and civil disorder in Bangladesh, there is a the agreement of the two parties. It is a simple matter; it new Government of Pakistan, there are difficulties is a necessity of coalition. Coalition gives rise to its own in Maldives and there is an Indian Government with particular requirements, and that is one of them. 803 Business of the House16 MAY 2013 Business of the House 804

Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): When can we have of negotiations between the House service and the a debate on who runs Tory Britain? The Queen’s Speech Metropolitan police, as contractors, about security. That did not contain a Bill to reduce the effects of smoking is not a matter for me, but as a member of the House of or excessive drinking. The promised Bill on lobbying is Commons Commission, I know that its members will again not included, despite the Prime Minister saying in have listened to what he has said. It is always our an impassioned speech a fortnight before the general objective in the House of Commons Commission to election that this would be the next scandal. Is not the work with staff to create something that not only is the answer to “Who runs Tory Britain?” the lobbyists, who best possible service, but shows the House as an exemplary are red in tooth and claw, in greater numbers and with employer. greater power than ever, and running the country in the interests of their greedy paymasters? Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con): May we have a debate on drug rehab centres? They play a Mr Lansley: I am sorry, but that is completely wrong. vital role in our community, but the industry is largely The simple fact of the matter is that certain measures unregulated and standards vary greatly across the country. were not included in this Queen’s Speech because policy In Bournemouth we are witnessing a worrying trend, had not been finalised and consultations were continuing. whereby a number of London-based councils are sending That is not a consequence of lobbying; it is a consequence some of their residents who require drug rehab to of the processes that are necessary to finalise policy. programmes in Bournemouth, albeit without informing the council. That practice needs to stop. Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): Will my right hon. Friend allow time during Government Mr Lansley: What my hon. Friend says is interesting. business to debate the 111 out-of-hours emergency number? I will of course raise how the system is working with my He will recall that when he was Secretary of State for hon. Friends at the Home Office, but from our point of Health and I had cause through family experience to view we need to ensure proper regulation where required use that number, I drew to his attention some simple and move increasingly towards payment by results, a remedies that could be effected. A debate at the earliest mechanism that I hope will enable us to deliver more opportunity would be very useful. effective drug rehabilitation. Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend will recall that the Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): May we have a Opposition chose health and care as the subject of debate in Government time on the reforms to legal aid Monday’s debate, when these issues were quite properly and judicial review? Judges are now having to support raised. There have clearly been operational difficulties litigants in person instead of hearing reasoned argument, associated with aspects of 111, in particular with the which is seriously undermining the rule of law and three new providers in the south-west, the south-east weakening one of the checks and balances on the state. and Oxfordshire during its introduction in April. Equally, May we please have an urgent debate on that issue? we could go back much further. For example, 10 areas of the country were running NHS 111 on a pilot basis when I left the Department of Health in September last Mr Lansley: The hon. Lady will have noticed that the year, and in many places it is operating successfully. Ministry of Justice will be answering questions on What Members throughout the House need to understand Tuesday, and she might wish to raise this matter at that is that the 111 service provides something that everybody time. I cannot offer Government time for it, but such has a right to expect, which is a straightforward non- issues may also be raised on the Adjournment or, collectively emergency mechanism for accessing all aspects of the with other Members, through the Backbench Business NHS. Committee. Many days in this Session have been provided for the Backbench Business Committee. I am happy to Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I am sure the listen to applications for Government time for general Leader of the House will agree that the security staff in debates, but the intention was for Back-Bench Members this building do a very good job in a very efficient and collectively to decide where their priorities lie. friendly way, that we rely on them and that we work with them very well indeed. He will also be aware that Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con): Figures last negotiations are ongoing on a new roster arrangement week show that the massive growth in payday loans, for them. Unfortunately, the new rosters were imposed which started under the last Government, is continuing without the agreement of the staff, despite ongoing and the debt charity StepChange has given an example negotiations, which resulted in industrial action being of a couple who had 36 payday loans between them. taken on Tuesday. Will he convey to the House of May we have a debate on the problem of high-cost debt Commons Commission and the Metropolitan police and on how to encourage responsible lending? the fact that many Members of this House find it quite unacceptable that a new system should be imposed Mr Lansley: The statistics from StepChange to which while negotiations are ongoing? Will he also urge them my hon. Friend refers serve to confirm the Government’s to continue with negotiations rather than imposing a view that there are serious problems within that market new arrangement and to recognise the value of the that need to be addressed. That is why we announced an co-operation and good will of those staff, which all action plan on 6 March. My hon. Friend will also be Members enjoy at present? aware that the Office of Fair Trading is prioritising enforcement and compliance. It will also announce in Mr Lansley: I of course endorse what the hon. Gentleman the next few months whether it will be referring the said in the early part of his question, but I would industry to the Competition Commission in the light of remind him that we are, as I understand it, in the midst concerns over the way in which the market operates. 805 Business of the House16 MAY 2013 Business of the House 806

John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): May I also highlight the fact that there is still a very long way press the Leader of the House further on the issue of a to go before women are equally represented on company register of lobbyists? We have already had one lengthy boards. consultation, myriad answers from the Dispatch Box and two private Members’ Bills, including a particularly Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes a good point brilliant one in my name. If the Government had got well, and it is one that the Government completely behind that Bill, it would now be on the statute book. recognise and support. The coalition Government are now introducing measures that will make a big difference Mr Lansley: I will of course look—as Ministers regularly to families and to women wanting to choose whether do—at how we can secure progress in relation to our and when to return to work—in particular, tax free commitment to this, but it is a complex area, as the child care support meeting 20% of child care costs for Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend working families with children under 12, starting from the Member for Norwich North (Miss Smith) has explained the autumn of 2015. That will be worth £1,200 per child to Members at this Dispatch Box. I am sure that she will and it will benefit 2.5 million families. have a further opportunity to discuss this matter with Members. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Will the Leader of the House agree to a statement or time for a debate on the decision by the Isle of Man Government to introduce Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): In May 1904, for the first time licence fees for United Kingdom and in front of a crowd of 10,000 people, the international Northern Ireland boats, while retaining fishing grounds philanthropist Andrew Carnegie opened Kettering library, for their own Isle of Man fishermen? Northern Ireland having provided £8,000 for its construction. Last Sunday, fishermen have been fishing there for hundreds of years. a smaller but no less select crowd celebrated the This is an important matter, which impacts on me and refurbishment of the library and the reopening of the the businesses of Northern Ireland fishermen. We need main entrance, thanks to the good work of the Friends a debate in this House on this issue. of Kettering Library and of Northamptonshire county council. May we have a debate in Government time on Mr Lansley: I agree that this is an important matter, libraries and their importance to local communities? of which I confess I was not previously aware, and I will talk to my hon. Friends about it. I cannot promise time Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes a good point on for a debate, but given the interest of this particular behalf of the library in his constituency, and I am matter to a number of Members, it might be a suitable pleased to hear about its refurbishment. He and Members topic for an Adjournment debate application. across the House will be aware of the importance of libraries. I remember that, during the last Government, John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): I am very concerned many libraries were the subject of local authority reductions about the scandal surrounding Connaught Asset of support. Many libraries are now working much more Management and the impact it is having on a number of effectively, however, often through charitable and voluntary my constituents. I am particularly concerned about the contributions. The library sector has made considerable reluctance of the Financial Conduct Authority to take progress in recent years. I cannot promise time for a specific and appropriate responsibility for regulating debate, but I am sure that my hon. Friend’s words will the fund operator and investigating irregularities have been heard. surrounding Tiuta plc. May we have a statement on this matter, particularly concerning how the FCA operates in dealing with these sorts of scandals? Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): The level of business rates is a cause of great concern for many small businesses. Of particular concern is the delay in assessing Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes a point on behalf appeals to the Valuation Office Agency. May we please of his constituents. There are many issues in respect of have a debate in Government time on the important which we want to make sure that we have the right question of business rates and the way in which the procedures in place to deal with misconduct. In this VOA is operating? particular instance, I will, if I may, take advice from my hon. Friends and provide a response. There are a number of routes by which directors responsible for misconduct Mr Lansley: I fear that I cannot immediately offer can be tackled through the companies legislation or, time for a debate of that kind, but I will of course raise indeed, insolvency practitioners through their professional the issue with my hon. Friends. I do not have with me bodies. I will look at the issue in greater detail and the details of the Valuation Office Agency’s performance ensure that we respond to my hon. Friend. in relation to its targets, but I will explore that too, and ensure that the hon. Gentleman receives details of the Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): progress it is making. I would like to draw the attention of the Leader of the House to the issue of modern-day slavery, which is Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con): mentioned in early-day motions 40 and 54. Please may we have a debate about women in the [That this House sends its condolences to the families workplace, and about what support is being provided to of the more than 600 people killed and to the many more help more women to work? Such a debate would highlight injured in the collapse of the garment factory near Dhaka, the fact that more women than men are starting Bangladesh; notes that this factory supplies clothes to apprenticeships, that more women are starting businesses some of the big name companies on Britain’s high streets; than ever before, and that more women are in senior further notes that the factory managers and owners are positions in business than ever before. However, it would alleged to have ignored signs of cracking in the building 807 Business of the House16 MAY 2013 Business of the House 808 reported days before the collapse in a building that had jobs, which have been reduced. Happily, though, the had five more storeys added than it should have; further private sector jobs are increasing at a rate several times notes that factories in developing countries like Bangladesh more than the loss of jobs in the public sector. are under enormous pressure to minimise costs from the western multinational companies buying from them; believes John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): that western multinationals buying from developing countries Tomorrow, the Furness poverty commission will produce have a responsibility to ensure that the factories producing its report into the hidden levels of deprivation in my these goods provide a safe environment for their workers constituency. I am sure that the whole House will share to work in and for workers’ rights to be fully recognised my gratitude to the commissioners for their work and and respected; further believes that the western multinationals my shock at the grinding hardship that they have catalogued. that bought clothes from this factory should provide Does the Leader of the House agree that we should find compensation to the bereaved families and the injured time to debate the important recommendations of this survivors; calls on the Government to work with the report and those of other local poverty commissions set Bangladeshi government to secure safe working conditions up by concerned Members and citizens up and down for Bangladeshi workers supplying British markets; and the country? further calls on the Government to enact laws that will provide for sanctions if western multinationals selling Mr Lansley: I have not had an opportunity to read goods in this country fail to fulfil their responsibilities to the report, but I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the ensure safe and decent working conditions for those working Government are keen to assist people. We were discussing in their supply chain.] job creation a moment ago. As the hon. Gentleman I am sure the right hon. Gentleman is as shocked as I knows, the best route out of poverty is finding work, am to see the death toll in the New Wave Style factory and we need to enable people to do that. The number of near Dhaka, which now stands at more than 1,200. This workless households has fallen, but people who are in means that the garments sold by Monsoon, Gap, need and people who are unable to work require support. Bonmarché, Primark, Walmart, Matalan and Kik are If the hon. Gentleman is able to raise these issues with contaminated by modern-day slavery. May I ask that my colleagues at the Department for Work and Pensions the promised regulation on narrative reporting of quoted on Monday, when they will be responding to questions, companies be brought by the Business Secretary to the they will, I know, be anxious to do all that they can to Floor of the House for debate, so that we can extend it help. to ensure that the “human rights reporting” that is talked about will include the eradication of modern-day Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): slavery from company supply chains? May we have a statement or a debate on Afghanistan and Pakistan, following the election of a new Government Mr Lansley: Yes, I am aware of that issue. As mentioned in Pakistan whose policy on Afghanistan will be crucial at business questions previously, I thought it very important to security in the region? to have the exhibition in the Upper Waiting Hall, which drew the attention of Members to the issue in this Mr Lansley: I cannot promise an immediate debate, country. We also need to be aware, however, of the but I think my hon. Friend will be aware that we have extent of the impact of corruption on other countries. committed ourselves to providing, and continue to provide, The Minister of State, Department for International a quarterly statement to Parliament about issues involving Development, my right hon. Friend the Member for Afghanistan. The political situation in Pakistan is, of Rutland and Melton (Mr Duncan) takes the issue very course, of instrumental importance to the securing of seriously. I will raise the matter of company reporting the political future in that part of the world, and, as my with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, hon. Friend has said, the elections on 11 May were as the hon. Gentleman requested, and try to secure a important in that regard. As I said a moment ago to my reply for him. right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes), the democratic transfer of Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): May we have power from one civilian Government to another after a a debate on job provision and particularly the role that full term is a milestone, and we should recognise it as job clubs can play in helping people to find work? We such. have three job clubs in Tamworth, and I have no doubt that they have played their part in helping people find work and reducing local unemployment—down by 314 Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Benjamin Disraeli over the last 12 months to the benefit of local families said: and households. “A Conservative Government is an organized hypocrisy.” I do not know that I would go quite that far, but one Mr Lansley: Yes, my hon. Friend is right. I am glad element of the way in which we do our business here that he and other Members have been actively involved that is an organised hypocrisy is the private Member’s in job clubs in their constituencies, helping people to Bill process. We waste vast quantities of time, and we find work. That is tremendously important. There are pretend that we are advancing a legislative process, but more vacancies in the economy, and we want to match we are not. I have been saying this for a couple of years, people to jobs as best we can. As my hon. Friend and I suspect that quite a few Conservative Members knows, it is also important for this Government to may now want changes to be made to the private support job creation. Since the election, we have seen an Member’s Bill process so that it becomes a bit more increase of one and a quarter million in the number of user-friendly—let us put it that way. Will the Leader of private sector jobs. We knew when we came to office the House promote measures to ensure that the process that we could not sustain the number of public sector is no longer an organised hypocrisy? 809 Business of the House16 MAY 2013 Business of the House 810

Mr Lansley: I am not sure that I agree with the hon. future in Europe. We in the Conservative party are in Gentleman’s description. During the Session that has favour of that. What is the view of Opposition Members? just ended, 10 private Members’ Bills secured Royal Do they deny the people of this country the opportunity Assent. to take a decision? I think they may have to make a decision on that themselves. Chris Bryant: None of them were private Members’ Bills. They were Government handouts. Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): Last Friday Pendle residents John and Penny Clough were at Buckingham Mr Lansley: I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is palace to receive the MBE that Penny Clough has been simply wrong. The Members concerned chose those awarded in recognition of the successful Justice for Jane Bills. [Interruption.] The first Bill on the list was the campaign named after their murdered daughter. Their one that became the Mental Health (Discrimination) campaign to allow a right of appeal on judge-made bail Act 2013. There is no sense that that was a handout. It decisions was the focus of my successful Bail (Amendment) had been promoted previously by Members, and was Bill in 2011, which was adopted by the Government as taken up by a Member in the ballot last year. section 90 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment The hon. Gentleman asks whether there is scope for of Offenders Act 2012. Given the success of the Cloughs’ improvements in the procedures. The Procedure Committee campaign and the news from the Crown Prosecution is discussing that, and I have given evidence to it. I do Service that the new law is being used to help victims, not know whether the hon. Gentleman has done so as may we have a debate on what more the Government well, but in any event I look forward to hearing what the can do to support the victims of rape and domestic Committee has to say. violence? Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): Seventy years ago this very evening, 133 airmen embarked on the Mr Lansley: I am pleased my hon. Friend has been daring “dambusters” raid from RAF Scampton in able to bring to the House that recognition of his Lincolnshire. My hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln constituents Mr and Mrs Clough, not least because I (Karl McCartney), my namesake and good friend, will know how difficult it must be for people who have be attending a sunset ceremony in his constituency this suffered such a tragic and terrible loss then to use that evening to pay tribute to those airmen. May we have a as a means to try to ensure others do not suffer as they debate in the House so that we can pay tribute to the have suffered. It is a difficult thing to do, and it is right 53 airmen who were killed on that raid on the night of that we pay tribute to them for doing it. 16 May 1943, and to the 55,573 airmen from Bomber In the context of what the hon. Member for Rhondda Command who died during the second world war? (Chris Bryant)—who has now left us—was saying, my hon. Friend demonstrates how the private Member’s Mr Lansley: As my hon. Friend says, and as our hon. Bill can have considerable benefits, not just because Friend the Member for Lincoln (Karl McCartney) agrees, Bills achieve Royal Assent, but because they create the we have an opportunity to recognise once again the agenda for legislation, which in his case the Government ingenuity that lay behind the bouncing bomb, and the followed up. May I also just say that the Government immense bravery and flying skills demonstrated in that have now ring-fenced £40 million to fund support services raid by 617 squadron under the leadership of Wing in relation to domestic violence and sexual violence, Commander Guy Gibson VC; and, in particular, an including national helplines and rape support centres, opportunity to recognise all those in Bomber Command. but we are constantly looking for new ways to protect As we reach the 70th anniversary, it is good to know victims? that, although those events are taking place in Lincolnshire, people throughout the country may have an opportunity to visit the splendid memorial to Bomber Command Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Although that was unveiled in London last year. there have been over 1,000 measles infections in Swansea since November, the number of live cases is in the dozens, not hundreds, because measles only lasts for Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): Despite what my three weeks. May we have an urgent debate about hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) measles, and not only on the case for universal has said, there has been palpable excitement today immunisation, but also to make the case that places about the private Member’s Bills draw. Would it not be such as Swansea are still open for business now—and good modernisation to make that part of the business for the centenary in 2014 of Dylan Thomas, the second- of the House, and have an FA cup-style draw with a bag most translated poet of all time? of balls at the Table of the House in each Session? I accept that football is different, however, in that football clubs are all looking for a good draw to get into Europe, Mr Lansley: The hon. Gentleman makes a good unlike the Leader of the House’s little Englander party, point. I do not know when we might have an opportunity which wants a good draw in order to get out of Europe. to hold such a debate, but I think it is important for us to have a debate about vaccination. Some new vaccination Mr Lansley: I cannot pre-empt what subjects the programmes have recently been announced, which I Members selected in that ballot might choose to bring think will make substantial progress in the prevention forward in their private Member’s Bills, but if they were of disease. We have restored MMR vaccine uptake to its to bring forward a Bill the purpose of which was to give highest level, but, unfortunately, there is a reservoir of the people of this country a decision over our future in people who were not vaccinated in earlier years, and in relation to Europe, I would be in favour of that. It is not many places across the country we are rightly now a vote to get out of Europe; it is a vote to decide our having to tackle that. 811 Business of the House16 MAY 2013 Business of the House 812

Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): May we review the sentencing for dangerous dog attacks? Will have a debate on community football clubs? That would he write to the Justice Secretary? allow me to highlight the success of Chester football club, which since being resurrected as a community-owned Mr Lansley: I completely understand why my hon. club in 2010 has won three successive league titles, Friend raises an issue of concern to him and, no doubt, regularly attracts over 3,000 fans to home games, has to his constituents. There will be an opportunity in this recently been promoted to the Blue Square premier House to raise issues relating to dangerous dogs, not league, and we hope will march on into the Football least in the Second Reading debate on the Anti-social League next year. behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill on Monday 10 June, because that legislation includes further measures relating Mr Lansley: I am glad my hon. Friend has asked that to the subject. Of course, I will raise the issue of question, as it gives us an opportunity to celebrate the sentencing with the Justice Secretary, but my hon. Friend success of Chester FC and all the other supporter-owned will understand that Ministers should not seek to allow or part supporter-owned clubs, such as Portsmouth, our own views to intrude on the sentencing decisions Brentford and Exeter City. That shows the loyalty and being made by courts under the guidelines. stability that can be brought to clubs by that happening. In particular, however, I want to take this opportunity Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): Before to congratulate Chester once again. the G8 summit, may we have a debate on aggressive tax avoidance by multinational companies? Does the Leader Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East of the House share the public’s outrage at this morning’s Cleveland) (Lab): May we have a debate on the £2.6 million news that on UK sales last year of £4.2 billion Amazon owed in wages to armed forces personnel that was not paid tax of just £3.2 million—almost as much as the paid in April 2013, following the 1.5% agreed pay company received from Government grants? increase, a decision arrived at by the Armed Forces Pay Review Body, which was applied only from 1 May 2013? Mr Lansley: The opportunities for debate are there, That means that the pay increase applies for only 11 months including in respect of the Finance Bill, as the hon. rather than 12—something I have never heard of in the Gentleman will know. It is this Government who are private sector or the public sector. So may we have a introducing the general anti-avoidance measures—those ministerial statement and a reversal of that decision, to were not introduced by the previous Labour Government. make sure that our armed forces are paid what they are [Interruption.] The shadow Leader of the House says owed? that they are not a panacea, and she is right, because this requires enforcement. That is why the Treasury has Mr Lansley: If I may, I will, first, talk to my colleagues devoted additional resources specifically to ensuring at the Ministry of Defence and establish what the enforcement against tax evasion, abuses and anti-avoidance position is. Of course, I will then ensure that the hon. schemes that trespass on the tax system. Gentleman has a reply and that, if appropriate, any statement is given to the House. Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): May I apologise for not being present at the start of business questions? Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Has my right hon. Unfortunately, I was taking a call on the matter I am Friend seen my early-day motion 103? about to raise. The Kirkby campus of Knowsley community college in my constituency is earmarked by the college [That this House notes that the Ministry of Justice for closure, which I am wholly opposed to. Will the fully understands the need for tough sentences regarding Leader of the House urge the relevant Ministers to those who own dangerous dogs; further notes however enter into talks with Knowsley council, the community that the owner of a dog which inflicteda5cmflesh wound college and me to try to secure a future for the Kirkby and a severed artery on a constituent of the hon. Member campus? for Harlow has escaped unpunished whilst the dog’s walker was handed a £250 compensation order; and asks the Mr Lansley: I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman Secretary of State for Justice if he will consider reviewing will understand that I had no prior knowledge of the the legislation on dog attacks in public areas to help put situation he describes, but, recognising his concern, I an end to such sentencing.] will of course raise it with my colleagues at the Department The early-day motion deals with a dangerous dog for Education, and I hope that they will be in touch attack on my 14-year-old constituent Brandon Elston. with him soon. Does my right hon. Friend not agree that sentences such as a £250 compensation order for the attack are Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the Leader of the House unacceptable? May we have an urgent statement to and to colleagues. 813 16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 814

so-called talking therapies, and the opportunity to invest Backbench Business and grow the social services’ response to mental health services as well? Mental Health Paul Burstow: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman [Relevant documents: Oral evidence taken before the Health for that question. He is absolutely right that access to Committee on 26 February and 12 March 2013, Session talking therapies—begun as a result of Lord Layard’s 2012-13, on Post-Legislative Scrutiny of the Mental Health initiatives before the general election, which the coalition Act 2007, HC 997-i and–ii.] Government continued to support and which is being rolled out—is very important in enabling people to 11.33 am recover socially, get back into work and get on with their life. At the best performance rates, as many as half Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD): I beg to the people that go through talking therapy services move, recover, and that can make a huge difference to them, That this House has considered the matter of mental health. their families and the figures I was talking about earlier. There can be no health without mental health, and, I shall return to the subject of talking therapies in a above all else, I hope that today’s debate communicates moment. that clearly and powerfully in the country and in this Last year I took part in the debate from a slightly House. I start by thanking the Backbench Business different position—I spoke from the Dispatch Box. I Committee for recommending this most important of was able to report some important progress. We had a subjects for a debate, and the Government for finding new mental health strategy. We had the continued roll-out the time to make it possible. Undoubtedly, there is a lot of talking therapies, which the hon. Member for Harrow to debate on mental health, and I am grateful to my two West (Mr Thomas) just asked about. Groundbreaking colleagues—one on either side of the House—who have work was being done to reinvent child and adolescent joined me in seeking this debate. I refer to the hon. mental health services from the inside out, to offer Members for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) and for Broxbourne access to talking therapies for children and young people. (Mr Walker), who hope to catch your eye, Mr Speaker, We had the flowering of a new movement to establish and contribute as we proceed. social recovery as a goal for mental health, with the Last year the House had a remarkable, moving debate establishment of recovery colleges channelling the lived on mental health, which was very personal for some experience of mental illness into practical learning and hon. Members. It demonstrated that mental health is skills, and resilience to enable people to get on with not an issue of “them and us”, but affects all of us. One their lives. in four of us may experience a mental health problem at There was the good news that the Government had some point. backed financially the task of Time to Change, the charity sponsored by Rethink and Mind, really motoring Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab): I congratulate to tackle issues of social stigma in our country. Reports the right hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. Recent since then show that the first phase of that programme World Health Organisation figures predict that by 2030, has materially altered public views about mental health depression will be the leading cause of diseases around in this country, but the programme needs to be sustained. the world, physical and mental. People can lose years of their life, as mental illness undermines their physical Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): The right health too. Would the right hon. Gentleman agree, hon. Gentleman makes a good case for supporting therefore, that mental health must be at the top of the Mind and other mental health charities, which do a Government’s agenda? very good job in changing attitudes to mental health. Is he not concerned, however, that many health authorities throughout the country are cutting funding to non- Paul Burstow: I certainly would. The fact that a large governmental organisations—voluntary organisations number of hon. Members are present, hoping to contribute that do very good mental health therapy work, often on to the debate, that the Backbench Business Committee a contract basis? They are being cut, and therefore the advocated the debate, and that the Government have opportunities for support for people going through given the time suggests there is cross-party consensus crisis are reducing, not increasing. that mental health has for far too long been hidden in the shadows and not awarded sufficient priority. The Paul Burstow: Yes, I am concerned. The picture is cost to our society of mental ill health across England, complex. The figures show that spending on adult mental Scotland and Wales amounts to over £116 billion a health services over the past couple of years overall has year, but that does not adequately capture the human reduced by about 1%, which is not good, but deeper cost—the misery—that arises from it. Given that the analysis of those figures shows that about half of burden of mental ill health is about 23% of the burden commissioners have increased their investment and the of all disease in our country, it is surprising that for so other half have reduced their investment, so the picture many years it has not been tackled with the necessary is more complex than it first appears. None the less, it is vigour. So I agree absolutely with the hon. Lady. concerning that services are being withdrawn where they involve providing peer support or reaching into Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): Does harder-to-reach communities, particularly black and the right hon. Gentleman accept that, in addition to the minority ethnic communities, which often get left behind need for continued investment in the so-called medical and often are most prone to being subject to the most facilities and services that are part of treating mental coercive parts of our mental health system. So I agree health, there is a need for continued investment in the with what the hon. Gentleman said. 815 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 816

In the debate last year I was delighted to be able to Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD): My right signal the Government’s support for the Mental Health hon. Friend talks about the need for all services to be (Discrimination) (No. 2) Bill, which was introduced by involved, starting with social care and local authorities. my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Central (Gavin Does he agree that the process needs to start even earlier Barwell). It is a rare thing—as we heard earlier in the and move into education and training, enabling teachers business statement, only about 10 Bills last year which to recognise when illnesses start to show themselves? were introduced as private Members’ Bills made it on to One in 10 children aged between five and 16 now suffer the statute book. It was great that that Bill made it on to from mental health problems, including eating disorders the statute book, and I congratulate my hon. Friend and self-harm—the types of problems that will blight and all those involved in taking it forward. their lives for decades afterwards. I have referred to the mental health strategy for which I had some responsibility. At its heart is the radical—I Paul Burstow: I entirely agree. That is one reason why might even say revolutionary—idea that there should be the Government have committed to the talking therapies parity of esteem between physical and mental health. service for children and young people that has so far That idea is gathering momentum. We have seen the been rolled out. I am meeting head teachers in my Government place that notion in the mandate for NHS constituency tomorrow to discuss how we can ensure England as a driving force for the way the Commissioning that they commission the right mix of services to support Board takes its responsibilities forward. It is increasingly children and young people, not least because conduct on the lips of policy makers and service commissioners. disorders, for example, cost society hugely and hold But the recognition that there are critical interdependencies young people back from realising their potential, academic between physical and mental health still has a long way or otherwise. That is undoubtedly the case with integration, to go. which is a key theme of tackling these issues more effectively. That is why I welcome the fulfilment of the There are more than 4.6 million people in this country commitments made in last year’s care and support living with long-term physical and mental health problems, White Paper, which my hon. Friend the Minister announced and far too often their experience of the NHS is that earlier this week, regarding integration pioneers and the they are broken down into their constituent diseases, new integration framework. rather than being treated as a whole person. As a result, their physical health needs are treated in one place—in Work on mental health must be embedded in physical many cases, in many places—and their mental health health services, which must be embedded in mental needs, if they are identified at all, are dealt with in health services. When we consider that people with another. severe mental illness die, on average, 20 years younger than the rest of the population, and that that is due mostly to physical health problems, we begin to understand Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): I pay just how profound that diagnostic overshadowing of tribute to my right hon. Friend for introducing this mortality can be. It is a scandal and it needs to be welcome debate, which I hope will become an annual addressed. I am delighted that the Government are debate. He is making a very important point about the taking many steps to tackle it. experience of service users and the lack of integration in dealing with their needs. Does he agree that we Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): The right should be aiming for a well-being-based approach with hon. Gentleman is rightly concentrating on health services a single point of entry, which will allow people to be and how they can help mental health and well-being, signposted to appropriate services? That means local but does he share my concern that other parts of authorities, the health service and the third sector genuinely Government, such as the Department for Work and coming together in an integrated way. Pensions, are exacerbating many people’s mental health problems through the way work capability assessments Paul Burstow: The hon. Gentleman makes an important are being carried out, and that those people are having point about the need for a greater focus on well-being. new mental ill health episodes as a result of the trauma It is one of the reasons why I am so pleased that the of having to go through an Atos assessment? Care Bill which was introduced in the House of Lords last week has as its first and clear mission for our social Paul Burstow: Yes, and that issue, which I know is of care system the promotion of well-being, and it goes on concern to Members on both sides of the House through to stipulate what that means in practice. It is about their constituency casework, for example, was raised in control and people’s ability to lead ordinary lives—the last year’s debate. Although some steps have been taken lives they want to lead in their communities. That must to try to improve those processes, they still do not seem be at the heart of an approach to mental health that to me to capture fully the important differences in sees the whole person, rather than trying to treat them dealing with mental health and, as a result, can exacerbate in constituent parts of the presenting conditions. mental health problems. There is more to do in that area The point about failure to join up services is key. All and I look forward to the Minister picking up on that too often, long-term physical health problems overshadow issue. Given that the Cabinet committee that had mental health problems. The results of that are all too co-ordinating responsibility for the mental health strategy, clear—slow, and in some cases no, recovery and people which is a cross-government strategy, is no longer in living with long-term physical health problems that place, I wonder how tackling those sorts of issues will could have been better treated in the first place. The cost be co-ordinated in future. in wasted resources in our national health service is It is worth noting that there are a considerable number about £10 billion a year and up to a further £3 billion of working-age people with a history of schizophrenia, on medically unexplained symptoms. for example, who are able and—I stress this point—willing 817 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 818

[Paul Burstow] James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): The more fundamental point is that a significant proportion to work. Indeed, Rethink’s schizophrenia commission of the money that is spent on mental health services in identified employment rates in that group as being the national health service—about £14 billion—is focused about 8%, with a range of 5% to 15% across the on acute services. If we were to shift, say, 4% of that country, compared with the obviously much higher budget into community-based solutions and early rates for the general population. Individual placement intervention, that might have a much more dramatic and support schemes, which are some of the most impact on our ability to tackle the underlying problem. effective forms of employment support for people using mental health services, really can achieve remarkable Paul Burstow: The hon. Gentleman makes a good transformations in people’s ability to take up employment. point. Indeed, that has been part of the approach taken I hope that the Minister can say something on how such in the talking therapies strategy, which is about moving issues are being addressed with DWP colleagues, because the resource to where it will make the most difference at that is where a cross-government strategy really should an earlier stage, and helping to promote recovery in the be making a difference, rather than simply addressing first place. direct NHS provision. The Minister said that the emergency service is a stark example of where parity of esteem has not been Mr Thomas: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? achieved, and I want to give another example. The Royal College of Psychiatrists and its president, Sue Paul Burstow: I will give way one last time, but then I Bailey, have been looking, on behalf of the Department really must conclude. of Health, at the whole issue of parity of esteem and what practical steps could be taken to address it, and it Mr Thomas: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman has recently published work on that. How can it be for giving way a second time. Will he underline the right, for example, that a recommendation by the National importance of mental health trusts such as Central and Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence on the North West London NHS Foundation Trust, which availability of a drug is a must-do for the NHS serves my constituents, working with the local voluntary but a NICE recommendation on the availability of sector such as the Mind groups in Harrow and Brent? therapies is not? This means that evidence-based non- Will he therefore encourage his Front-Bench colleague pharmacological treatments that are clinically effective to look with particular interest at the letter I am about and cost-effective are often left unimplemented. I hope to write to him, raising the concerns of Mind in Harrow that that bias will soon be brought to an end. and in Brent about the trust’s failure to work properly The same can be said for access standards. There has with the services it is providing? rightly been uproar when even small changes occur in the amount of time people wait to attend accident and Paul Burstow: I note that the Minister paid close emergency departments. NICE has said that a person attention to that intervention and I am sure the hon. experiencing a mental health crisis should be assessed Gentleman will enjoy the exchange of correspondence within four hours, yet only one in three people is so on the matter. assessed. I am puzzled by the decision not to set a I want to discuss the health care aspects of parity of 28-day access standard for therapy, because the NHS esteem. Curiously, not all general hospitals have 24/7 constitution should embody parity of esteem, and that access to a mental health liaison service offering immediate is a tangible way it could do so. Having said that, I take support, yet we know that when that works well it can heart from albeit a footnote in the revised NHS constitution make a big difference to the quality of care, help to handbook, which said: reduce the length of stay in hospital, especially for older “The Mandate indicates that we will consider new access people, and generate savings four times greater than the standards, including waiting times, for mental health, once we have a better understanding of the current position. We need to cost of running the service. There are good examples of do this work and consider carefully the implications of introducing where this has been done, particularly in Birmingham, any new standards, before we can make any firm commitments in and it is odd, given such obviously compelling evidence, this area.” that it has not yet been taken up more widely. Why on earth is this problem still not being understood? Why do we need yet more reviews? Will the Minister The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman give an indication of the time scale? Lamb): I completely agree with my right hon. Friend. There is some very good practice, including RAID—rapid Norman Lamb: We clearly need to understand the assessment interface and discharge—at Heartlands hospital scale of the problem of access. It is a bit shocking that in Birmingham, but there are too many places where we do not know the figures across the country for the there is a complete absence of such services. The starkest number of people waiting and how long they are waiting. aspect of the lack of parity of esteem is that there is a The mandate of the commissioning board requires that good emergency service—it may be under pressure but it must establish that and then set access standards. it is there—for people with physical health problems but That is really important work, because there is a legal not for those with mental health problems. That has to obligation to seek to meet the requirements of the be addressed. mandate. Paul Burstow rose— Paul Burstow: I am grateful to the Minister. Perhaps in his own speech he can say a little more about how we Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Can I help might better incentivise this change. Despite the compelling the right hon. Gentleman? We said that he would have economic and medical benefits, these services are still 15 minutes, but we are now on 20 minutes and other not being provided widely enough. people are waiting to speak. 819 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 820

Paul Burstow: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was Many people continued to cope with post-traumatic looking at the time and at my notes and thinking that I stress disorder, which we now recognise. It was not should conclude so that other hon. Members can contribute identified as a condition at the time, although it is fully to the debate. detailed in some post-war journals. We have, however, My final point concerns the power of data and the moved forward. difference they can make. Will the psychiatric morbidity To return to my original point, the military is often at survey, which is due to be repeated in 2014, be repeated? the cutting edge—it needs to be—of looking at mental I draw attention to the value of the cancer intelligence health problems. Post-traumatic stress disorder has risen network, which has demonstrated the power and up the mental health agenda in the armed forces, mainly effectiveness of nationally co-ordinated data. Given because of statistics from the United States. The US that, as I have said, mental health accounts for 23% of Department of Veterans Affairs estimates that post- the total disease burden in this country, it really would traumatic stress disorder affects 11% of veterans of the make sense to have a mental health intelligence network war in Afghanistan and 20% of Iraq war veterans. By to bring together all the relevant data. I hope the contrast, the figure for the UK—these statistics are Minister will address how that might be achieved. taken from a 2010 edition of The Lancet—is 4%, while In conclusion, estimates put the cost of mental health 19.7% reported more common mental health disorders in England, Scotland and Wales at £116 billion, but the and 13% reported alcohol abuse. right combination of public health, sustained effort to I want to consider the issue of alcohol abuse in the tackle stigma, easy access to psychological therapies for armed forces and its impact on mental health problems. all ages, and good community and crisis care could The Ministry of Defence has spent a lot of time providing make a huge difference to that figure. More importantly, services, raising awareness and developing programmes it could deal with and reduce the suffering experienced such as TRiM—trauma risk management—which I will by people with mental problems as a result of our past look at later, and there is far greater understanding of failures. I hope the Minister will respond positively to mental health problems among the military. Much of this debate, and I am grateful to the other Members that is thanks to the excellent work of and collaboration who wish to take part in it. between the MOD and King’s college London. I draw Members’ attention to “King’s Centre for Military Health Research: A fifteen year report”, which was published 11.55 am in 2010 and sets out the stunning work that has been Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab): It is a privilege carried out. It talks about the roll-out of TRiM. The to follow the right hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam unit has helped to raise the awareness of most common (Paul Burstow). The House will recognise the work that mental health problems among military personnel, including he has done in bringing this issue not just to our depression, alcohol misuse and post-traumatic stress attention, but to that of the wider public. I also pay disorder, although that is not the most prevalent. The tribute to the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker), unit found that pre-deployment screening was not effective who has done fantastic work in this area, and to my in picking up problems and that mental health problems hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones). did not necessarily apply only to those whose problems [Interruption.] My hon. Friend moves away from me had been indentified before they were deployed. Who just as I am commending him. will be affected by deployment cannot be predicted. I want to consider mental health issues in the armed forces, because there is an urgent need to address some John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): In the hon. Lady’s myths and problems. The armed forces also have wonderful investigations into this critical area, has she discerned examples of best practice that are not generally appreciated any difference between the ways in which reservists and and have not been dispersed throughout wider mental regulars are treated with respect to screening and treatment? health services. If she has, does she think that that needs to be addressed? Looking back in time, there were 80,000 cases of shell Mrs Moon: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his shock or battle fatigue during the first world war. The intervention. When he was on the Defence Committee, British Government, realising that they had to do something he took a particular interest in this area. As I will because of problems in getting troops to the front line, explain later, reservists are particularly vulnerable. That started looking at mental health. Changes in mental is more of a problem in the US because they are health treatment started because the military needed to deployed for longer and have less support once they are deal with mental health problems. home. However, it is a major issue that we must address in the UK as we increase the percentage of reservists in Jeremy Corbyn: My hon. Friend is making an important our armed forces. point about the experience of the first world war. Does The work at King’s college London highlights the she recognise that there was a great deal of discrimination importance of adhering to the harmony guidelines and and abuse towards ordinary soldiers who suffered mental the negative impact of changing tour lengths during health trauma as a result of the first world war, whereas tours. The Secretary of State for Defence announced in some of the officers who suffered it got therapeutic a statement yesterday that we are extending the tour treatment in special homes around the country? There length for two brigades that will be deployed over the was an enormous difference between the approach taken next two years. That has implications and we must to the soldiers and that to the officers. ensure that King’s college London is involved in tracking the changes that it brings. Mrs Moon: My hon. Friend is correct. Craiglockhart hospital and the work of Dr Rivers are a prime example Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): of the excellent treatment that was given to some officers. Will the hon. Lady give way? 821 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 822

Mrs Moon: I will, but this is the last intervention that the blue-light brigades. The police force and other I will take. Departments, including the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, frequently train their officers in TRiM. Rehman Chishti: The hon. Lady is talking about the US research into factors predicting psychological research undertaken by King’s college London. Experts distress among rape victims has shown that initial distress at Imperial college London have said to me: was a better predictor of subsequent psychological “Mental Health Services and research are a UK success story. functioning than other variables, as well as in the treatment We have produced world leading research in many areas which of rape and other types of post-traumatic stress disorder. has led to new treatment approaches which have improved patients’ The use of TRiM and post-traumatic stress disorder lives”. management is extending into areas that we had not Will she join me in paying tribute to all the researchers previously recognised would impact on the general mental and academics in our country who have done so much health of people in the wider community. to improve the quality of care for patients? Another area in which the military has taken time to Mrs Moon: The hon. Gentleman is right that a number expend its capabilities is the Big White Wall—an online of universities are doing excellent work in this area. The 24/7 early intervention service for people suffering from centre at Oxford has done wonderful research, as have mental distress. It is free for serving personnel veterans Bristol and Manchester. I have referred several times to and their families, and as of December last year, 2,500 King’s college London because of its expertise in defence members of the armed forces community were registered. medicine. I am not denigrating the work that is taking Seventy-five per cent. of members talked about an issue place elsewhere; I am merely highlighting the importance for the first time on the Big White Wall, 80% managed of the work at King’s college London. their psychological distress, and 95% reported an improvement in their well-being as a result of using that The King’s college London research has looked at the service. importance of decompression, whereby serving members of the armed forces have the opportunity to spend time There is consensus that reservists are more likely than together and take part in physical activity before they other serving personnel to experience mental health reach home. That has made a huge difference in the problems as a result of their service, which is thought mental health outcomes of serving personnel. to be because when they return from tour they return Interestingly, the research has identified the groups to civilian life, away from the support network that a that are most at risk of problems. They are not those regiment offers. Academics at the King’s Centre for who have served for the longest or most frequently in Military Health Research, in conjunction with others, the armed forces. They are the early service leavers—those conducted a five-year study of 500 reservists who worked who leave the service shortly after their initial training. in Iraq, which showed that they were twice as likely as The risk is higher among those who fulfil combat roles. regular soldiers to suffer from post-traumatic stress We forget how small a percentage of our armed forces is disorder. made up of people who go out through the gate and Current drives to recruit 30,000 reservists as part of pursue combat roles. That work is of great benefit to the the Future Reserves 2020 programme mean that we will military, but it is also important that it is sustained and need further research in that area. A number of Members utilised in our wider understanding of mental health. will have an interest in this issue, because reservists I want to talk briefly about TRiM, which is about come from across the country and live and work in all trauma resilience. It was developed and utilised by the our constituencies. The most recent figures Combat Royal Marines. It trains individuals to identify signs of Stress could give me showed that it had received 1,558 distress within their own units and within themselves. It approaches from veterans from Iraq, 123 of whom were means that problems can be identified early on, and reservists. From Afghanistan it had received 752 approaches, help provided quickly. Interestingly, the trauma and including 55 from reservists. With the discharge of large resilience handbook that is given to serving personnel numbers of serving personnel as a result of cuts, I am and their families provides advice on looking after concerned that high levels of alcohol misuse within the themselves, talking about their experiences, and how to services may be transferred into their civilian life. Service deal with returning home—coping skills such as dealing personnel are not a group that readily seek help, and with anger and alcohol, combating stress, and sleeping much remains to do in relation to mental health. Our better. It provides tips for spouses, partners, families, wider society and its services must be ready for the friends and parents of returning serving personnel, as discharge of large numbers of serving personnel into well as for the returning reservist. It is a prime example our communities. of how we help prepare people for what they are going Every hon. Member who speaks today will no doubt to experience. We do too little in this country to prepare be aware of the difficulty of working with general people for the risks of mental health problems. We do practitioners and of making them aware of the mental not tell people; we are not educating our young people health services that are available. On problem is that in how they can identify within themselves, or within GPs see few veterans. There is a heavy reliance on their families and friendship groups, some of the risks individuals to make their GP aware of their military they will inevitably face in times of difficulty throughout service. In 2011, the Royal College of General Practitioners their lives. issued guidance to GPs on how to meet the health care I am pleased that the work of TRiM has gained needs of veterans, but the onus is on the GP to be aware traction elsewhere and been adopted by many other of it. According to the last figures I have, only 320 GPs organisations and employers. Even a cursory internet had accessed an e-learning package on help to identify search demonstrated that a number of organisations veterans with mental health problems. We need to work are using TRiM to help their employers, in particular to increase that number. 823 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 824

Our police forces need to be helped and supported in when the opposite is true. It is incumbent on all hon. understanding how often they will come across veterans. Members to ensure that our work and the facts we share Figures show that they are coming across veterans who come from academically proven research. A study by are dealing with alcohol problems and having episodes Lord Ashcroft suggested that 92% of the public believe of self-harm, which in military terms means looking for that all veterans will have a mental health problem, but fights in which they will receive physical injuries. Alarmingly, research suggests that the opposite is true—that 90% do a recent independent commission on mental health and well. policing showed that the Met police have a particularly We have had a 15-year report from the King’s Centre poor record of dealing with people in mental distress. A for Military Health Research, but we need a 20-year quarter of calls to the Met police each year—600,000 report showing the impact of the draw-down from calls—were linked to mental health. We need to tidy up Afghanistan and the increased numbers of veterans in the link between mental health and the police. the community. Norman Lamb: The hon. Lady makes important points In this debate on mental health, words can be on people in the armed forces and veterans. Is she aware dangerous—they can harm and create impressions in of Lord Adebowale’s valuable work and report on the vulnerable minds. They can make people believe they link between police and mental health, which was published have a problem they do not have, or that they have a last week? It was commissioned by the police and dealt problem that they can survive and grow from. Military with how to improve the way in which they operate. It is mental health is robust. The transition to civilian life, good news that the police were prepared to commission alcohol misuse and reservists are risks that we must take Lord Adebowale’s report and are prepared to listen to seriously and tackle. The MOD will need to work more his advice. closely with the Department of Health. As people leave the armed forces and become civilians, civilian society Mrs Moon: I am very aware of that research; the organisations need to be equipped and ready to help. As point I was about to make comes from it. The problem civilians, we face the same problems together. is that we often use the police as our first line in dealing with people with mental health problems, but they are not trained and equipped to carry out that role and 12.16 pm function. We must do something about that. Otherwise, Mr Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con): It is a pleasure the person with the mental health problems is often to follow the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon), dealt with as a disruptive element, and treated as if they who made an important speech on the mental health of are someone violent and aggressive, rather than someone military veterans who serve this country so bravely in who has a mental health problem. We must deal with many theatres. that problem. I am in the Chamber because this debate is extraordinarily Words and anecdotes can be dangerous, particularly important. I could spend this Thursday knocking on in the military. Research was published this week by the doors in my constituency and pressing the flesh. If Defence Analytical Services and Advice agency on Falkland I was lucky, I might meet 100 people, but by being here, veterans. It found that 95 veterans had taken their own I can represent the interests of many thousands of people. lives since the end of the conflict. That figure is lower That is why the Chamber of the House of Commons is than previously assumed, although each death is tragedy so important. I hope that, this afternoon, I speak up for for the individual and family involved. The research the interests of many thousands of my constituents showed that, of the 26,000 mobilised, 255 died in conflict who suffer directly from mental health problems and and 95 took their own lives, but 455 died of cancer. We illness, and many thousands in their families who support sometimes forget that our armed forces community has them. problems we need to address that are not necessarily We have come a long way in the past year. In June mental health problems. 2012, we had a great debate in the Chamber. Many familiar faces who took part in that debate are in the Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): I agree Chamber this afternoon. In a sense, the lid has been totally with my hon. Friend that each of those 95 people lifted. People now feel much more confident speaking taking their own lives is an individual and family tragedy. not only of their own mental health experiences, but of My problem is that, in opposition, the Conservatives, mental health in general, and the hopes, aspirations, including the Prime Minister, took the figure used prior fears and expectations of their constituents. to the research and quoted it freely, like confetti, to try to discredit what the Labour Government were doing Although I have been involved in mental health for for veterans’ mental health. about seven years as vice-chairman and now chairman of the all-party group on mental health, I have met an Mrs Moon: I tracked that figure back and found that enormous number of organisations in the past year. I it initially came from a story in the Daily Mail. That is have written a few of their names down on a piece of how currency becomes fact. paper. I will not read them all out—that would not look too good in Hansard tomorrow—but I will focus on two Mr Jones: It was repeated by the Conservatives. or three special people I have met. Daniel Macnamee from Changing Our Lives has Mrs Moon: The repeating of such figures is the suffered from psychosis and has been very unwell for dangerous part as it places the perception in people’s significant periods. He is well at the moment and recognises minds. More dangerously, it goes into the minds of the signs when he is about to become ill, so the process veterans, who then think, “I have served. I will have a and his drug therapies can be managed. Daniel is doing mental health problem and post-traumatic stress disorder,” extraordinary things. He is an advocate for people with 825 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 826

[Mr Charles Walker] to be able to speak at that event. Some people who had been excluded from the labour market for many years mental health problems and who are ill, including within but are now in work spoke at the launch downstairs in hospitals—people who have been either detained or the Churchill room. It was moving and uplifting. Good who are there of their own volition. news stories tend to be uplifting and we need to have more of them. There is still a lot of disappointment and Andy Sawford (Corby) (Lab/Co-op): The hon. Gentleman sadness in this area, and that is why we have such an mentions a constituent who becomes aware before he obligation in this place to work with all Governments to has a psychotic episode. In that situation, he would improve outcomes and ensure we get things right. want acute and crisis services. Is the hon. Gentleman aware of Mind’s work on that? It recently surveyed all Rehman Chishti: Like every other hon. Member here, primary care trusts, which are now clinical commissioning I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the work he has groups, and mental health trusts about their acute and done on this issue over many years. Does he agree that crisis care services. Does he agree that we ought to the current NHS approaches are too focused on fighting ensure that such services are available to people such as fires, and that more investment in community and preventive his constituent and my constituents? care would improve quality and potentially reduce costs, a view shared by an expert from Imperial college? Mr Walker: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that information. I have campaigned alongside Mind for Mr Walker: I agree with my hon. Friend. We need to many years to ensure that people have such services. We ensure that the systems are in place in local communities talk about support within the community, but it is to provide people with the support they require. Care in variable and people’s experience of it is variable. If we the community is a great concept if that care exists. It are to get things right when people go into crisis or feel exists more in some places than in others. a crisis coming on, they need to be confident that the I will not read out all the names on my list, but they support they require will be there for them. That is why show that civil society is alive and well. They are not having a crisis plan is so important: people’s wishes can statutory organisations; they are founded and run by be respected. We too often talk over the heads of people people who wanted to reach out and do something with mental health problems, unwellness or illness—however about a problem that was relevant and prevalent in their we define it. We need to be aware of their wishes, community. I am full of admiration for them. because they are people and we have an absolute obligation to their welfare and to respect their wishes. Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab): I am grateful to the Daniel from Changing Our Lives is not a constituent; hon. Gentleman for giving way; he is being very generous. he is just one of the most inspirational people I have Like other Members, I pay tribute to him for his work met in the 45 years I have tottered along this mortal on this issue. Before he moves on, I want to touch on the coil. He is wonderful man and I am full of admiration important point about employment. A constituent has for what he is doing. written to me to say that employers need to be far more A couple of days ago, I met Liz Johnson from UK open to the idea of encouraging their employees to talk Changes, who works in Staffordshire to ensure that about these issues and support them in times of need. people with mental health issues can remain and keep a The loss to companies could be greatly reduced if they foothold in the workplace. For those who are out of the were able to support employees through times of mental workplace due to illness, her organisation provides fatigue and mental illness. Does he agree? mechanisms to help them get back in. The organisation has some reach and I strongly recommend that the Mr Walker: Absolutely. A lot of good points are Minister meets its representatives. I know there is a being made this afternoon and that is another one. BT drive to ensure that people who have suffered from and Legal & General are doing a huge amount of work mental health problems have the opportunity to re-engage on this. BT does it because it is a decent employer, but with the labour market. One great sadness is that the also because it wants to hold on to some of its top chance of being in work for those with a diagnosis of performers who make a difference to the business. It psychosis or schizophrenia is approximately 8%. A 92% therefore makes sense to support people and ensure unemployment rate is unacceptable. they can stay in work. We have a fabulous civil society doing wonderful Dame Anne Begg: Generally, people with mental things. The great thing about the area of mental health—it health issues have been in work—they are not young is not all doom gloom, far from it—is the diversity of and may be in middle age—but have fallen out of it. provision. There are a lot of people out there thinking Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there needs to be a about different ways of doing things, ways that work for lot more work done with employers to ensure that an the particular communities they serve. That is to be episode of mental ill health does not lead to people applauded and promoted. We need to support organisations being sacked and becoming unemployed? Employers that provide services that meet the needs of specific need to be much more sympathetic, helpful and groups and their community. understanding to keep people in the job they already have. Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): I thank my hon. Friend for lifting the lid off the whole issue of Mr Walker: The hon. Lady makes a fabulous point. mental health. The more times we talk about it in this Many organisations are doing that at the moment. The Chamber, the more we can break down the stigma. It Work Foundation launched a report in the House of does not surprise me that he has such a long list of Commons a couple of months ago, and I was delighted wonderful people and local organisations that are doing 827 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 828 great things. I met representatives of the State of Mind Mr Walker: The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent campaign, which is running in rugby league. It is not a point. Patients need a voice and an advocate, and often—not particularly well paid sport, but the campaign is helping always, but often—a family member is best placed to do young men who suffer from mental health issues. Will that. The patient’s wishes should be respected. he continue, with me and other Members, to support those organisations and the wonderful people who are Mrs Moon: I wanted to follow up on the same issue as breaking down these stigmas? the Minister. In preparing for this debate, I received many e-mails from people who had to become experts Mr Walker: My hon. Friend makes a fine point. I in the condition in the hope of protecting a family want to touch, at the end of my speech, on resilience member from exactly the sort of abuse that the hon. and the terrible tragedy of suicide among young men Gentleman is talking about. The fear that carers feel and women, so I will come back to that. when a loved-one comes into contact with the health I remain terribly concerned about psychosis and services, which should be there to protect them and aid schizophrenia. I mentioned a few minutes ago that them in their passage through their illness, should not anyone with a diagnosis of psychosis or schizophrenia exist. That fear should not add to the trauma of their is likely to be unemployed. If one is not unemployed at treatment. That is something we have to address. the time, one will end up unemployed. Life expectancy, which has already been mentioned today, can be up to Mr Walker: It is not a crime to be ill. It is not a crime 20 years shorter than for someone who does not have to have cancer, it is not a crime to have heart disease and that diagnosis. That is not acceptable in a civilised it should not be a crime to have a mental health illness. society and should not be tolerated. I have spoken What we need is compassion. about this before in an Adjournment debate and I want to revisit it because it is so important. My concern, having talked to people who care for Gloria De Piero (Ashfield) (Lab) rose— loved ones with schizophrenia—sons, daughters, mothers or fathers—is that sometimes the NHS is more interested Mr Walker: I give way to the hon. Lady, although I in managing the illness than with the overall health am going to get in terrible trouble in a minute for taking needs of the patient. Symptoms are managed down so up too much time. that patients do not make a nuisance of themselves and take up time, but when one stands back and looks at Gloria De Piero: I wanted to intervene because people them, they are desperately unhappy. It does not matter were talking about family members. I have a close if they are smoking 70 or 80 cigarettes a day, because family member with a severe mental illness. It was a big they are not making a nuisance of themselves. It does part of my childhood and early adulthood, and remains not matter if they weigh 20 to 25 stone, because they are a big part of my life to this day. It is so important that not making a nuisance of themselves. It does matter, we have this conversation. It is not something that however, because that patient is slowly killing himself people share or talk about because of the stigma that or herself and we have to address that. surrounds it. Instead, people internalise it, deal with it I know that the Minister and other colleagues share and become their own expert, so I would like to thank my concerns, but as a civilised society we just cannot the Backbench Business Committee for returning to allow this to continue. Yes, progress is being made in the this important issue. It is time to talk and time to advancement of drug therapies, but not fast enough in change, and I thank the hon. Gentleman, along with mental health. We still have treatments that were Rethink and Mind, for their work in this area. breakthroughs in the ’70s and ’80s, but we have not moved on to the 2010s and beyond. The hon. Member Mr Walker: I know that the hon. Lady is an expert on for Bridgend rightly said that we have to be very careful these matters. I was going to say in response to the hon. about the language we use today and not frighten Member for Bridgend that there are experts in this people. I do not want to frighten people and I hope that place. I did not want to identify the hon. Member for she does not think I am, but I get terribly moved when a Ashfield (Gloria De Piero), but, to her enormous credit, constituent, who is very ill and being cared for in she has identified herself. She is a fantastic representative hospital, writes to me and tells me that once every other of her constituents, and it is a delight to have her here week he is held down on the bed and has an eight inch today. needle injected into his backside. I just think that that must be terribly demeaning, distressing and awful—I We have to make progress on drug therapies. Lord am sorry, I am a bit upset about it. We need to get to a Stevenson of Coddenham, who is known to me and the place where that does not happen anymore. It will take hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) very well, time, but we need to get there. is doing enormously good things in this area. He has established a charity with a significant budget to look Norman Lamb: I pay tribute to the work my hon. into new treatments, pathways and the brain. The charity Friend does on mental health, and the extent to which is called MQ, its chief executive is Cynthia Joyce and I he argues the case for a fair share of resources and commend its work to the Minister. I would also like to attention to be given to it. Does he agree that it is thank my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough important for clinicians, who he was talking about (Nicky Morgan), who cannot speak today because, earlier, to listen to loved ones and family members to according to some bizarre convention, Whips cannot hear their perspective? Of course there is the issue of speak in the Chamber, which is a great sadness, because confidentiality, but sometimes clinicians hide behind I wish she could. I also thank my hon. Friend the that and are not prepared to listen to those who know Member for Halesowen and Rowley Regis (James Morris), the patient best of all. who has done much in this area, and of course the hon. 829 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 830

[Mr Charles Walker] but so what? As I said last time, if people did not like me before I spoke last year, they are not going to like me Member for North Durham, who has become a great now. friend over the past year and is a fellow musketeer in The most remarkable thing for me is that some people these areas. I thought I knew well have told me about their own I said that I would touch on suicide. We need to build mental illness. I want to pick out three. I will not name mental health resilience in our schools. That should any individuals, and I pick them out only to demonstrate start at a very young age. It is a great tragedy that many that mental illness and depression are equal opportunity young men and girls decide to end their lives in their conditions. It is not determined by social status, education teens and early 20s. It is a public health issue, and we or what someone does in life. The first was a chief need to address it. executive of a large council whom I have know for many years. If she was here today, hon. Members would think Jeremy Corbyn: I compliment the hon. Gentleman on her a confident and forthright individual, but speaking his speech and on his work on this subject. I am glad to her after the debate, I learned that she suffered that he has raised the issue of suicide. Like me, he must terribly from post-natal depression. be shocked at the number of suicides and attempted The second person was the chief officer for a large suicides within our prison service and at the number of European defence company. I am sure that some people prisoners clearly suffering mental health problems but in the House have met him several times. He is the last not receiving the care and support they need. Does he person hon. Members might think suffered from mental agree that we need a much better regime of training and illness but, as he explained to me, 10 years ago, he support on mental health issues for all prisoners? suffered from a bad bout of depression. The third person, remarkably, is a retired general I know. Others Mr Walker: I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. in the House will know him. I will not mention his It is a great sadness that we shut down and cleared out name, but again he is not someone we might think the asylums only to put too many of those people in our suffered from mental illness. I pick out those three to prisons. They go in ill and they come out even more ill demonstrate my point. These are not weak individuals and more addicted. It is a disgrace and something we or failures in life, but confident individuals, and had need to address. they not told me, I would not have known, and neither I thank colleagues for being here today. I know that would anyone else, apart from their immediate families. the call of their constituencies is hard to resist, but they I want to give another example. I was on Chester-le-Street will be congratulated by their constituents for taking in my constituency one Saturday morning. I was walking part in this debate. I commend the work of the all-party down the street and a lady, perhaps in her late 50s, early group on mental health. We have done a lot of work on 60s, came up to me and said, “Mr Jones, can I thank mental health, schizophrenia and ethnic minority mental you for what you said on mental illness?” I said, “Thanks health. I see that my hon. Friend for Taunton is here—no, very much.” She said, “I’m a recovering alcoholic who it is not Taunton, but? [HON.MEMBERS: “Totnes.”] Well, had 10 years of depression, but now, with the proper it begins withaTforcrying out loud. What’s a T among support, I am leading a good, constructive family life.” friends? I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes Normally, if I had walked past her in the street, I would (Dr Wollaston) for her great work. I thank you, Madam not have thought that this well-dressed, middle-class Deputy Speaker, and the Backbench Business Committee lady had suffered from mental illness. That reinforced for allowing the debate to take place, and I thank the the point that unlike a broken leg, for example, we Minister and his predecessor, the right hon. Member for cannot see mental illness. Every day we pass people in Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow), who was also a the street or working with people—people we might fabulous Minister, for giving the matter such attention know very well—who have suffered from mental illness and focus. They are to be lauded and applauded. or who has a family member who has suffered from it.

12.35 pm Ian Austin: What my hon. Friend is saying illustrates how important the speeches that he and the hon. Member Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): It is a pleasure for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) made were. The key point to follow the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker), is that despite the number of sufferers who battle against whom I would call my hon. Friend. these problems at some point in their lives, there is still I congratulate the Backbench Business Committee huge amount of stigma attached to them. That is why and the sponsors of this debate. Remarkably, this is the debates such as this are so important. On his point second debate on this subject in less than a year. I think about health, it is quite right that the Government and we should have one every year in order to raise issues public health organisations do so much on smoking, that affect many in the House and many of our constituents. weight loss and reducing alcohol intake to improve Our last debate was on 14 June 2012, when I spoke health and well-being, but why does he think so little is about my depression and the hon. Member for Broxbourne said publicly, or by health organisations generally, to spoke about his struggle with mental illness. We were raise the problems of mental health? both a little wary about what the reaction would be, but it has been nothing but positive, to the extent that he Mr Jones: That is our great challenge, and not just for and I have become the Eric and Ernie of the mental the present Government. We did a lot in the last health conference circuit. I leave it to you, Madam Government to recognise the problem. I pay particular Deputy Speaker, and the House to discern which of us tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh is Eric and which is Ernie. I have received well over (Andy Burnham), who championed IAPT—improving 1,000 e-mails and letters, and I think one was negative, access to psychological therapies—services, for example, 831 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 832 but part of the problem is cultural. We do not talk the stigma. We should remember that it is not just the about these issues in this country.I think that is changing—I individuals with mental illness who suffer, but family will come to the stigma around this issue in a minute—but members too. Earlier my hon. Friend the Member for for anyone who has suffered from a mental illness or a Ashfield (Gloria De Piero) mentioned her own family. family member, there is a sense of shame. There should A lot of families suffer in silence because they think not be, but there is a sense that talking about it means there is no one to turn to. In many cases, they think they that those people are failures or somehow is a sign of have failed in some way or wonder where they can get weakness, when I would argue the opposite. In many help. It is not uncommon—I have come across a lot of cases it is a sign of strength. With the right support, these cases—for carers to end up suffering from mental people can function normally, work perfectly normally illness themselves because of the daily pressures on and have a perfectly happy and productive family life. them. The hon. Member for Broxbourne raised the issue of Yasmin Qureshi: I congratulate my hon. Friend on schizophrenia. I pay tribute to the Schizophrenia being brave and speaking about his situation—as I Commission, which reported towards the end of last congratulate the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) year. It looked not only at services for schizophrenia, on speaking about his—and on highlighting the issue. but at the stigma around it. Again, the popular image in There is a stigma attached to it, and we should discuss it the media is that someone suffering from schizophrenia more. My hon. Friend said that the lady who approached is potentially the mad axeman or woman next door who him said that she was able to recover after she was given will come and kick the door in, when nothing could be support. Does he agree that some mental health treatments further from the truth. When we describe people’s are often quite costly? There is a funding issue, so conditions, there is an onus on us all to describe them should we not also encourage the Government to ensure properly, because there are people suffering from proper funding for services across the country for everyone schizophrenia who, with proper treatment and support, who may have problems? can function quite normally. Mr Jones: We need to explode the myth that the I also pay tribute to the hon. Member for Croydon problem is funding. I do not think it is; I think it is Central (Gavin Barwell), who introduced the Mental where the funding is spent—a point raised earlier. Indeed, Health (Discrimination) (No. 2) Act 2013—a good use funding that is properly spent on early interventions for of a private Member’s Bill. Like my friend the hon. people with mental health issues will save the NHS Member for Broxbourne, I also pay tribute to Lord money in the long term, not cost it. Stevenson, not only for championing the Bill through the other place, but for the work he does with his new Mrs Moon: There is an issue with the interaction of charity. Did that legislation help in itself? Yes, it did, mental health and alcohol. I repeatedly had texts from a because it sent a clear signal that we were starting to dear friend of mine who is a minister in the Church. He take discrimination more seriously. Will it change things had severe depression and was self-medicating with overnight? No, I do not think it will, but the more we alcohol. His family and the police would repeatedly talk about the stigma, the better people can address it. take him to mental health services, which would turn I have been criticised—we see this occasionally in him away, because they said he had been drinking. He some newspapers—by people who say, “Well, it’s okay was drinking because he needed their services and could for famous film stars or even MPs to say they’ve suffered not access them. We have to ensure that mental health from mental illness,” as though it is somehow an easy services cannot turn away people who have been drinking, thing to do, but I can tell Members now that it is not. I but hold them until they are no longer under the influence would like us to reach a position where people generally of alcohol and then ensure that they access the services are talking about mental illness, so that if people are they need. The link between alcohol and mental health suffering in a workplace, they can open up to their has to be explored and tackled. colleagues. I should point out—not just to people in this Chamber, but to those in the wider audience—that Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Before most people who are suffering from a mental illness the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) continues, would be very surprised by the reaction if they told let me say that interventions are becoming speeches in people. However, it is a big step, and I know personally their own right, when they are supposed to be brief and that it is a very difficult one to take. pertinent to the point that has just been made. If we One of the best examples of that was from a Channel could return to that, perhaps it would help the flow of 4 programme that I appeared on after I spoke last the debate. year—I pay tribute to Channel 4 for its work to raise awareness of the stigma around mental illness. The Mr Jones: It is a statement of fact that people with programme had the great title of “Mad Confessions” mental illness will self-medicate, and alcohol is the most and presented by a very mad individual called Ruby easily available drug. I am surprised by what my hon. Wax. By chance, it happened to include one of my Friend describes. If services are taking that approach to constituents, Derek Muir, who suffered from depression. people, that is wrong. Her point is also linked to the The programme started with him talking about his bigger debate about access to alcohol. depression—he had been off work for a number of Let me return to the issue of stigma, which my hon. months and lives in Edmondsley in my constituency. At Friend the Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin) the end of the programme they got all his work colleagues raised. He quite rightly said that we do not talk about it, together in a room and he told them. It was the first but we are making some progress. I thank Mind, Time they had known about it, but the reaction was very to Change, Rethink and the Royal College of Psychiatrists positive and supportive. That is the point we need to get for doing a great job of raising the issue and tackling to. Sometimes it is a big step for people suffering from 833 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 834

[Mr Kevan Jones] hear what he said about Mr Speaker’s actions, and I want to alert him to the fact that I am trying to get every mental illness or depression to admit what is seen as a Government Department to sign up to Time to Change, frailty—although it is not. The strength is in opening up so that they can all make the commitment to be an and asking for help. exemplar. If we are talking about what employers in the One area that we need to do more work in is getting private sector should do, it seems to me that we should mental health policies in the workplace right. I pay be taking the lead here. tribute to BT and Dr Paul Litchfield for their policies, which have buy-in not just at the level of personnel Mr Jones: I have spoken at a few events with the managers, but from the board downwards. They are not Minister, and I want to thank him for his interest in, only talking about getting people to talk to one another and understanding of, this subject. Getting Government and open up about mental illness, but trying to be Departments signed up to Time to Change would be a supportive of people with mental illness. When I was at very good move, and he should please ask if he requires a seminar with Paul last year, somebody asked him, any assistance from me. “Why has BT done this? Is it just to tick the social I want to talk about an issue that affects many of our responsibility box?” He said no. Indeed, the board was constituents—namely, the work capability test and the quite clear: the policy makes economic sense for BT. ongoing issue with the company Atos. Is work good for The message we need to get across to more and more people’s mental health? Yes, it is. Should people be in employers is: “Why write off people who are valuable to work if they can work? Yes, they should, with the right your business, just because they happen to suffer from a support. The problem with the work capability test, mental illness?” BT is to be congratulated, and I certainly however, is that it is still not looking at people with congratulate the board and Paul on their work in this mental illness with any sympathy or understanding. area. I believe that individuals with long-term mental illnesses John Glen: The hon. Gentleman is making a typically should be taken out of the current work stream, and brilliant speech on this subject. Will he also focus on that there should be a dedicated system for dealing with what we could change in regard to education in our such people. I am not saying that we should write them schools? For many, laying the foundations of understanding all off and leave them at home without making any at an earlier stage, prior to the workplace, would be very assessment, but we cannot continue with the present effective in creating better outcomes and helping all ludicrous system in which they are assessed by the same those young people who have to witness mental health people who assess claimants with bad backs and other problems among adults. injuries. There are assessors with no expertise at all in mental illness. The assessment process is leading to Mr Jones: The hon. Gentleman makes a very good some people’s conditions being made worse, and, in point: schools are important in this regard, and it is some cases, to people taking their own lives. One of my important to get young people to talk about the issue. I constituents has taken an overdose because of the trauma have a fantastic charity in my constituency called If of being asked to attend an interview. U Care Share, run by Shirley Smith. It was created following the tragic circumstances in which Shirley’s Jeremy Corbyn: My hon. Friend is making an excellent 19-year-old son hanged himself. Her organisation goes point. Does he think it would be better if, instead of into schools, youth groups and football clubs—Shirley calling people with mental health conditions in for an is working with the Football Association and others—to interview, Atos simply sought medical reports on them get people talking about their emotions. We need to get and then considered setting up an interview with a more of that kind of work going. suitably qualified examiner? Would that not be better The workplace is important. Although he is not in than the production line that Atos operates at the the Chair at the moment, I want to pay tribute to moment? Mr Speaker, as well as to the House of Commons Commission. Following our last debate on this issue, Mr Jones: My hon. Friend makes a good point. The they earmarked some funding for our own mental health starting point should be the medical history of those in this place. Dr Ira Madan, the head of the unit across individuals. Someone at the Department for Work and the road that MPs and staff can access, has told me that Pensions has said that it is not possible to identify such that was valuable in that it allowed her to assist Members individuals, but that is complete nonsense. The process with mental illness, and that there had been an uptake my hon. Friend has just suggested should be the starting of the services since the money was made available. I point. would recommend that anyone who wants to go and Professor Harrington’s review of the process put have a chat with her should do so, as she is a very good forward the idea of mental function champions. The and open individual. We must give credit to Mr Speaker Government spun that idea out a bit, as though it was and the Commission for that funding, because that was the big answer to the problem, and I actually fell for it at not an easy decision to make, especially as he was the beginning, thinking that those people would be the getting criticism from certain newspapers for giving ones who would carry out the assessments. That was special treatment to MPs. It is not special treatment; it not the case, however; they are there to give advice to is a vital service. Unfortunately, it is still not open to the Atos assessors. So we still have assessors with no many MPs because of the stigma that surrounds mental mental health qualifications. illness. Representatives of the charity Mental Health Matters, Norman Lamb: I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman a good advocacy charity in the north-east, have just met for the incredible contribution that he has made to this Atos to ask about the champions, and a number of subject over the past year or so. It was encouraging to questions have been raised. Atos would not tell them 835 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 836 how the champions were recruited, and there is no they might have to wait up to a year for a talking indication that they need any formal qualifications. I therapy—that is just no good. What we need—again, understand that they are given a two-day Atos in-service this will save the NHS and the economy money—is a training course, but they do not interact with any of the quick service such as the IAPT service. I know from royal colleges or other outside bodies. Remarkably, they people in my own constituency and others who have are also not accountable to the DWP. I put it to the written to me that the wait is totally unacceptable. If we Minister that he needs to tell the DWP that this must be want to make this work, we have to make sure we have a looked at again. The process is not only causing a lot of joined-up service and that people who want a diagnosis heartache and difficulty for many of our constituents; it get the support they need quickly. Otherwise, people is actually not a good use of public money. People are will be stuck in this no man’s land between diagnosis failing the tests and going to appeal. At least one of my and treatment. constituents has been affected in that way. They sometimes Another area on which the new organisation needs to go through the process and end up in a residential focus is local government. Local government now has hospital for a month, which must cost more than the an important role in health care through health education amount of benefit that might have been saved. and protection. The Royal College of Psychiatrists is We also need tailor-made programmes for people working with councils on a project to have champions with mental illness. We should consider a separate work at the local level. It is important for local councils to stream that could include voluntary work, given that have councillors or chief officers who can champion the many people with mental illness find the transition need for mental health services locally. back into work through voluntary work easier than I welcome the debate. It is important to talk about being thrown straight back in. We also need a pool of these subjects, and the more we do, the better. To adopt employers who understand and are sympathetic towards an old BT phrase, “We need to talk”. If we talk about people with mental illness. There is an idea that such it—whether it be in schools, the workplace or here—we people can just join the normal job market and that will erase the stigma of mental illness. That has to be employers will just accept that they might not turn up the goal: mental illness being treated just like any other for work for a day or a week because they are not feeling long-term condition. People should not be afraid of well, but that is not the case. Those people will not keep admitting to it and should not feel that they cannot not their jobs for very long. be helped. We also need to recognise that in many cases—including, I have to say, my own—it can be Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): I was at a recent strength rather than a weakness. meeting of the Mind support group in Scunthorpe, and I was concerned to hear people saying that they were 1.1 pm anxious about taking on voluntary work because of the Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) impact it could have on their benefits and their access to (Con): I add to those of other Members my congratulations other services. Does my hon. Friend think that that to the right hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul issue needs to be looked at? Burstow) on securing this debate, and indeed to the Backbench Business Committee on having agreed the Mr Jones: Yes, it does. If there were a separate work time for it. stream for those individuals, of which the voluntary I fear I shall stray into what some Members might sector was a part, we could use the voluntary sector to regard as rather a niche area of mental illness. Some get people back into the world of work. I agree with my will recall that I led a Westminster Hall debate several hon. Friend, however, that they should not be penalised months ago on the topic of eating disorders, raising the for doing so through loss of benefits. connection between eating disorders of whatever type I also want to talk about the old issue of the NHS and other mental illnesses. reorganisation. It provides some great opportunities for One of the sadnesses I encountered in the run-up to doing things differently, and there should be an opportunity that debate was the trivialisation of eating disorders for local providers to bring in the third sector. I have even by some fellow Members, who made the point that one problem with that, however. I am president of the they were not serious conditions but just the afflictions local Mind, which has just received a contract to provide of silly teenage girls who needed to get a grip on their certain services, and the process it has to go through is eating patterns. Far from it: in fact, eating disorders are very difficult. I am not suggesting for a minute that such one of the most prevalent mental illnesses. There are organisations should not be performance managed, because thought to be some 1.6 million sufferers in the UK. there are some large contracts involved, but we need an Anorexia nervosa is the most lethal mental illness: easier system for applying for the contracts. We also 20% of sufferers eventually die from it and a further need to ensure that when bodies are competing for the 20% never recover. contracts, people can access the services. It is important to recognise that the symptoms of a Another area of concern is the increased waiting lists wide variety of mental illnesses such as low self-esteem, for IAPT services. I know that the world has changed physical abuse and alienation from peers are common since 1 April, and people who lobby on behalf of traits in a wide range of mental health problems, and mental health services are going to have to change their are often particularly manifested in eating disorders. As lobbying tactics. It is important to ensure that I have said previously, the route map to an eating commissioning groups have an understanding of mental disorder is not identical for everybody, but similar traits illness and of the importance of IAPT services. and commons themes can be found. The same route If we look at the Royal College’s report, we find that map and traits can be found in schizophrenia and people are going through the system saying they are serious personality disorders such as bipolar disorder, quite happy when they get a diagnosis, but are then told for example. 837 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 838

[Caroline Nokes] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Anna Soubry): I would not normally intervene, but will I want to pick up and draw on as a point of contrast my hon. Friend join me in paying tribute to the right the issue of borderline personality disorder. I want to hon. Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth) for the great make the point, hopefully as succinctly as I can, that work he has done to raise with me and my Department eating disorders are not the poor relation of more this often unheard of, certainly unrecognised and very serious personality disorders and mental health problems; serious problem of type 1 diabetics with eating disorders? they are a serious condition of the psyche that should In considering how to tackle it, it is indeed important command far greater public awareness and, indeed, that we look at the mental conditions and problems my greater public spending. hon. Friend has identified. To demonstrate the significant threat posed by eating disorders, one need only make a comparison with a Caroline Nokes: I certainly join the Minister in paying more well-known and recognised mental health problem that tribute. I am delighted to hear her make the point such as borderline personality disorder. BPD has a that we must start addressing the underlying mental higher incidence of occurrence than schizophrenia or health conditions, when in too many cases the physical bipolar disorder and is thought to be present in about treatments are the sole emphasis. 2% of the general population. It has a phenomenally I want to touch briefly on the significant impact high rate of suicide and self-harm: 10% of BPD sufferers eating disorders can have on future career opportunities eventually commit suicide successfully. Those mortality and in the workplace. As I said earlier, eating disorders rates are augmented by disorder-related deaths from are often trivialised and generalised as being conditions drug or drink abuse. One of the most well-known cases affecting teenage girls. That is far from the truth, as the of undiagnosed BPD was that of the singer Amy highest rate of increase is among male sufferers. In Winehouse, who eventually died from alcohol poisoning. addition, many eating disorder sufferers are managing However, anorexia nervosa—like BPD, it is thought their conditions over many years or even decades. I am to affect roughly 2% of the population—has a 20% the first to emphasise that sufferers can be of any age mortality rate, which is nearly twice that for BPD. Yet and of either gender, although I acknowledge that the awareness of this shocking statistic is not high; people age at which an eating disorder is most likely to manifest simply do not know about it. That could be because, itself is 17, and that it is most likely to do so in girls. It unlike BPD, those deaths do not predominantly come often occurs in academically high-achieving individuals from suicide—although that is not uncommon—but who put themselves under immense pressure to be happen many years later after the physical effects of absolutely perfect in every way they can. That frequently anorexia have taken their toll. Many of the deaths occur manifests itself in a control of food intake. Those from multiple organ failure or heart attacks, in addition determined to put themselves under significant academic to the straightforward and more well-known effects of pressure also put themselves under massive physical the sufferer having too low a body weight for them to pressure and wish to conform to a body ideal that is survive. actually far from healthy. I want to pay tribute to the work of April House in Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): I congratulate Southampton—a specialist unit that focuses on eating the hon. Lady on the persistence with which she has disorders in the city. I paid a very enlightening visit to raised this issue and the trenchant way she argues her the centre just over 12 months ago and met a number of case. She will be aware that one of my concerns is type 1 sufferers, several of whom came from my constituency. diabetics who, by manipulating their insulin intake, can Although April House serves the wider Southampton achieve rapid weight loss, which is in itself a form of area, three of them were Romsey residents. They have eating disorder. Does she agree that the major problem kept in touch with me since my visit, and have emphasised confronting these people is falling between two stools? that they have not only benefited from the work done at On the one hand they get physical treatment for the April House, but have undertaken other therapies. physical consequences of their rapid weight loss—organ I am very aware of the work of an organisation in damage and so forth—while on the other they have Southampton called tastelife, which was set up by the difficulty getting access to proper psychological or families of people suffering from eating disorders. The psychiatric services. Does she agree that the two need to aim was to move the focus away from the physical, and, be more integrated? through self-help groups, to encourage sufferers to talk about their issues, work through them with other people Caroline Nokes: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for and concentrate on not just physical but mental wellness. that timely intervention. That is one of the key problems. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for North Durham Far too often in eating disorders, the treatment is focused (Mr Jones), who drew attention to the stigma experienced on body-mass index and ensuring that the sufferers are not only by those who suffer from mental health problems, physically well, but without necessarily addressing the but by their families. Before the Westminster Hall debate, underlying cause through therapies and treatments I was contacted by many parents, husbands and, indeed, that deal with what triggered the condition. The right wives of people with eating disorders, who told me that hon. Gentleman’s example of diabetics who manipulate not just their relatives but they themselves suffered that their insulin intake is a particularly stark one. Anyone stigma. A number of them believed that they must be in who has done work with diabetics knows that incorrect some way to blame for the fact that their relative, levels of insulin can lead to horrendous physical perhaps their child, suffered from an eating disorder. complications. Across the whole spectrum of eating Many were suffering from massive levels of guilt and disorders, there is far too much focus on physical and introspection because they felt they must have somehow too little on mental well-being. caused it. 839 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 840

I have tried to emphasise during discussions of this debate about whether parents should have the right to topic that it is not possible to identify a single trigger, insist on force-feeding young people until they reach the and that a parent cannot do anything to prevent the age of 18, we should enter the fray. I recognise it is a descent of a child into a form of mental illness, but very difficult area. However, I want to leave that thought what that parent can do is help. I was pleased to hear with the Minister. I have raised the issue with her various Members stress the importance of having a colleague the Minister of State, and no doubt I will parent or other relative as an advocate. In the case of raise it again over the coming months and years. eating disorders, it is almost inevitably the parent who will know the young sufferer best. I think it very important that we be prepared to talk openly about the subject 1.15 pm and to move away from the stigma. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): Like all the Many of those who attended the Westminster Hall other Members who have spoken, I welcome the debate. debate will remember my hon. Friend the Member for It is important for us to have it, and I hope that it will Braintree (Mr Newmark) talking about a pea. He described become an annual event. It is a way of reducing the how he had suffered at school from anorexia nervosa, stigma that is attached to mental illness, increasing and had decided to address his condition by seeking to understanding of it, and also, quite correctly, holding tackle it one step at a time. The first step involved a the Government to account on how their policies develop. single green pea on a plate, which he pushed around There is still an enormous amount of discrimination endlessly, trying to summon up the ability to eat it. His against people who have suffered from some kind of was a moving and interesting account, which gave those mental illness or breakdown, or have spent time in a of us who had by then been debating the issue for some long-stay institution. Like all discrimination, it is incredibly hours something on which we could really focus: that wasteful of resources, because it means that those people vision of a plain white plate with a single green pea cannot contribute to society in the way that we want, on it. and as a result we all lose out. Unfortunately the Minister of State, Department of I want to raise two points. The first relates to local Health, the hon. Member for North Norfolk (Norman experiences, and the second to national policies. My Lamb), is no longer in the Chamber. I am sure the borough has an image as being relatively wealthy and Under-Secretary of State for Health, my hon. Friend high-achieving, and there are certainly some wealthy the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), will do an and high-achieving people in it. Islington council, however, admirable job in responding to the debate, but the point undertook an interesting exercise: it set up a fairness I am about to raise is one that I raised with the Minister commission to examine the quality of the delivery of of State after it was raised with me by an organisation public services to everyone in the borough, with the aim called Anorexia and Bulimia Care. of ensuring that the purpose of the council’s policies, Once a young person suffering from an eating disorder including health policies, was to reduce inequality. has turned 16, they can choose to accept or refuse According to a briefing that the council gave me treatment and their parents no longer have a say. In before the debate, it is estimated that in my borough order for them to be force-fed, they must be sectioned. “30,000 adults experience depression or anxiety disorders in any That brings me back to what I said earlier about teenagers one week…. Mental ill health among 5 to 17 year olds is estimated who are in the middle of academic exams and approaching to be 36% higher…than the national average”. A-levels. Being sectioned could have a significant impact The briefing states that more than one in eight children on their future career choices. are I am not necessarily suggesting that we should insist “experiencing mental health problems at any one time.” that the parents must be in charge until a child reaches It also states: the age of 18. The Children’s Minister explained to me carefully and clearly about previous rulings in this place “The suicide rate is… 8 per 100,000…second highest in London”, and in the courts which have granted people Gillick and broadly competence at an earlier age. I am not saying we should “similar to the national average”. insist that that right be taken away from eating disorder Physical ill health is often related to mental health sufferers. I think it important for us to work with health problems. According to the briefing, care professionals, and with mental health experts in “Poor mental health was found in 43% of all Islington patients particular, to find a solution to what I regard as a very who died of cardiovascular disease before the age of 75. As knotty problem. people live longer, there are an increasing number of people with Among the sufferers to whom I have spoken during dementia, although Islington has a relatively smaller number of various meetings at April House and elsewhere, one older people” sticks especially keenly in my mind. She was a lady my —only 9% of the population. Islington has a 70%—higher own age, and, although she was not one of my constituents, than average—rate of diagnosis of dementia. Increasingly, she came from Hampshire. She had suffered from anorexia as others have pointed out, people who care for adults for decades, and was incredibly frail. When I mentioned with mental health problems are much older people April House she shuddered visibly, because she regarded who find it extremely difficult to cope. Those carers it as a place where she had been effectively force-fed. need more support, so that they are better able to look She had not come through the treatment successfully; after people who are becoming more and more dependent. here she was, 20 years on, still suffering from anorexia Both my local council, in its study, and the Mental nervosa. Health Trust draw attention to the enormous over- I always find myself—with good reason, I believe—on representation of people from black and minority ethnic the side of the sufferer or the patient, and I am therefore communities in the context of diagnosis and, in particular, not suggesting to the Minister that when it comes to the the context of long-stay institutions. We should ask 841 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 842

[Jeremy Corbyn] supporting statutory services in the treatment of mental illness. I do not see them as competitors or rivals; I see whether there is, in fact, a higher level of prevalence, or them as complementary. whether there is a perception that it is somehow OK to put black and minority ethnic people into long-stay Mr Kevan Jones: I agree with what my hon. Friend institutions, whereas it would not be OK in the case of says about the smaller contracts these organisations get other people. and the bureaucracy they have to deal with. Does he agree that some of them could bid for larger contracts Indeed, I urge Members to visit long-stay institutions to provide services as well, but the bureaucracy and and talk to people resident in them. I get the impression financial hurdles involved in bids for such contracts some of them have had very difficult lives and very little make it very difficult for them to do so? support, and that they have led very isolated existences. Jeremy Corbyn: I agree. The bureaucracy involved I also get the impression that many of them have very and the skewing of the contract culture frequently few friends and very little representation, and whereas means voluntary organisations that have a tradition of those who come from a fairly stable family background the voluntary provision of services—often in an effective with a series of understanding relatives are able to get and innovative way, as I have described—are debarred representation and often win their cases where there has by the contracting process. Instead, very large private been a section order, others do not get the same quality sector medical companies come in to privatise those of representation and consequently do not win any services and run them in a profit-related way, rather tribunal cases. than the voluntary sector, which is motivated not by In an earlier speech, I made an intervention about the profit, but by the care of the individuals. I urge Ministers role of the voluntary sector in dealing with mental to look very carefully at how services are contracted out health conditions. As I have pointed out, my borough to the private sector, which is motivated by profit, as has considerable problems in dealing with mental health, opposed to voluntary sector organisations, which often but we have a number of very good local organisations have a very good record in looking after people who that often deal with mental health issues in an innovative need help and support. and supportive way, and are often very successful. Nafsiyat, We must also recognise that if we are to deal with an intercultural therapy centre based in Finsbury Park mental illness problems in any community, there must which was founded by the late Jafar Kareem, was be a level of understanding that goes wider than just groundbreaking in its ideas of looking at the cultural what GPs, hospital doctors and the statutory services background and ensuring culturally appropriate treatment do. There is the question of signposting. I pay tribute to of people with mental illness, for example by making local organisations—voluntary groups, churches, mosques sure there are people who speak the necessary languages —that understand the situation and help signpost people and understand something of the specific cultural into getting help and support, because many people background. The Maya Centre, which particularly relates in our society with some degree of mental illness get to women, does much of the same work, as does ICAP no support whatever. This debate may well help us to or Immigrant Counselling and Psychotherapy, a counselling understand that that is needed. and psychotherapy centre originally founded by people We must also recognise that there is a cost involved. in the Irish community that now deals with a much The cost to health budgets of dealing with mental wider community. health is very high. Unfortunately, the policy of community care for the mentally ill has often resulted in lack of We also have a considerable refugee population. A care, and in deep isolation and serious problems for the very good group called Room to Heal deals with people individuals concerned. who have achieved asylum status in this country. They I recall a debate in the House in 1986. The Select have often been through the most dreadful experiences Committee on Health was looking in an interesting and of torture, which are frequently dealt with in a community critical way at the closing down of large asylums and way. People meet regularly and do things together, such long-stay institutions, such as Friern Barnet and Napsbury, as gardening and taking trips. Many of them improve a that existed all around London, and, indeed, all around great deal and get through the terrible traumas they the country. The Committee warned that community have suffered. I find it very interesting talking to people care should not be seen as a cheap option, saying it from different countries all around the world who have should instead be seen as an option and an opportunity, all experienced torture in one form or another and who but also as requiring comprehensive support, support have benefited from these activities. We also have the workers and care. Refugee Therapy Centre and the Women’s Therapy Centre, which also provide therapy on a culturally sensitive I am sure all MPs have talked at their surgeries with basis. Finally, we have the Holloway Neighbourhood neighbours of those with mental health problems who Group stress project. have come to complain about noise and inappropriate behaviour. Many of them say to me they are sympathetic These are all valuable groups, and they all depend on to the plight of the individual, and recognise there is a contracts obtained either from the local health authority lack of support. We should not see community care as or neighbouring health authorities. All of them spend a the cheap option. It is an option that can be followed, great deal of time filling in forms in order to gain what but a great deal of support is also required to carry it are often relatively small sums of money for relatively through. short-term contracts. Health authorities must value these Mr Kevan Jones: Does my hon. Friend also agree that organisations and look to use them. We should give out under the new NHS structure, local councils will have the message that we recognise that the voluntary sector to do a lot more in terms of understanding the needs of has a very important complementary role to play in people with mental health conditions? 843 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 844

Jeremy Corbyn: Absolutely, which is why I referred in My hon. Friend the Member for North Durham my opening remarks to the strategy adopted by my (Mr Jones) made an important point about people’s local authority. It has taken the issue very seriously, and availability for work interviews undertaken by Atos on has developed a strategy that involves signposting, behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions. I am understanding, support for care in the community and sure that every hon. Member has had people come to a close relationship with the mental health trust locally. their constituency surgery who have been through the I suspect many local authorities are not particularly misery of an Atos interview when they are suffering well geared up for that role, and they need to address from a mental health condition. Whether on a good day that quickly. or a bad day, nearly all of them get assessed as being We must recognise that children and young people capable of work. They therefore start losing benefits suffer a great deal of diagnosable mental health conditions. and then go through an appeal. Usually, these people The Mental Health Foundation estimates that one in eventually win the appeal, but the trauma caused during 10 children suffer from them. One in six young adults that process has led to suicides, to deep depression and aged between 16 and 24 are also suffering from them to deep fear among them. at any one time. It is very hard for young adults and When I intervened on my hon. Friend, I suggested teenagers to admit they have mental health problems. It that instead of automatically calling those with mental is very difficult for them to go to a GP and say they have health conditions in for an interview, just as every other a mental health problem. Peer group rivalry and peer person with a disability is called in, medical records group abuse—abuse in schools and colleges—is nasty, should be looked at first and a much more sympathetic dangerous, damaging and very hurtful, and can ultimately and appropriate way forward should be taken. Where lead to suicide. The old saying “Sticks and stones can someone is able to work and an employer is able to take break my bones, but names cannot hurt me” is wrong. them on, as there is a job, that is clearly good—we want Names do hurt. Name calling does hurt. It can lead to and welcome that—but we should not force them into young people becoming isolated, and in extreme situations it. We should not force people to try to hide mental it can lead to suicide. health conditions. Instead, we should be supportive and sympathetic towards them. I hope that the message we Mike Crockart: The all-party group on social mobility can send from the debate is that that is the direction in has looked at that issue, and we found that one of the which we want to go. major things holding children back from realising their This is a valuable and timely debate on an issue that full potential was not necessarily access to the right type can affect any of us at any time. We all know people of education—further education or higher education—or who are affected by mental health conditions and as a to funding for such education. Instead, it is their having society we should stop the name calling, stop the abuse the social and emotional resilience to be able to bounce and start understanding this as a condition that we can back from such problems and take their careers forward. all suffer from and that we can also, generally speaking, always get over. Jeremy Corbyn: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right in what he says. Bouncing back from these things and then getting on in education or any career is very 1.33 pm important. I hope that debates such as this one and the remarks made by hon. Members who have been through Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): It is a pleasure to mental health problems and depression begin to help follow the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy give a greater understanding in the much wider community. Corbyn), who made some powerful points. Perhaps I might add to what he said about the appalling difference I wish to make only a couple more points, because I in respect of the use of compulsory detention under the know that other colleagues wish to contribute to this Mental Health Act 1983 for those from black and debate. I intervened earlier about the number of suicides ethnic minorities. We heard in evidence that the fear of that take place in prisons and the number of people in this among some communities is acting as a deterrent to our prisons who are suffering mental illness. Although seeking early help. We must address that, making sure such people may be there on the basis of a crime, they that people do have that access and that that fear is need mental health support rather than incarceration in removed from communities in order to improve health a prison. Today’s edition of The Guardian contains a for everybody. helpful reproduction of a map of suicides in British prisons. Although the number of suicides has reduced, I wish to begin by stating for the record that I am 833 prisoners committed suicide in the decade up to married to a consultant NHS psychiatrist who is also 2011. When a prisoner commits suicide it is traumatic chair of the Westminster liaison committee for the for the prison and for the prison officers concerned, and Royal College of Psychiatrists, which provides impartial devastating for the rest of the prison population. We advice to all political parties on psychiatry. He is also need to look much more seriously at how our prisons now a clinical director of NHS England’s mental health operate, the training that is given to prison officers and and dementia network in the south-west. the mental health issues that need to be assessed much The corresponding debate last year focused importantly more carefully by the courts and by the prison services. on the issue of stigma in mental health, and I congratulate We also need to examine whether it is really necessary the ongoing work of Time to Change in reducing or appropriate to put someone who has a mental health stigma. The other issue that was raised, which many condition into a prison, at any level of security, knowing Members have focused on today, was parity of esteem. that there is a real danger of their committing suicide. It is wonderful that that important principle is established They are not going to become less better because of this within the Health and Social Care Act 2012, but we approach; they are probably going to get considerably now need to ensure that that translates into action and worse. practice on the ground. As we have heard, 23% of the 845 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 846

[Dr Sarah Wollaston] minimum pricing would be a good way of addressing this issue on a wider level. But I will not focus on that overall disease burden lies in mental health, but we all today. recognise from stories that we hear in our constituency I want to draw attention to the evidence on providing surgeries, and from clear evidence, that that does not integrated services. Mental health and physical health translate into either funding or our constituents’experiences services should be much better integrated. Is the Minister of services. How are we going to see that translated into aware of the recent report by the Centre for Mental action? We need to look at the evidence of what works Health and the London School of Economics, which and to focus on the outcomes. evaluated the use in Birmingham city hospital of the We know that 30% to 65% of hospital in-patients RAID service—the rapid assessment interface and discharge have a mental health condition and that mental health psychiatric liaison service? Is the Minister aware of the and physical health are inextricably linked. Not only is role that liaison psychiatry plays? Such services are someone more likely to suffer from a mental illness if greatly appreciated by patients and provide an excellent they have a chronic long-term condition, but someone way for them to receive services; moreover, they are who has a mental illness will find that there is an impact incredibly cost-effective. By providing rapid access to a on their physical health. We have heard again about the professional service, not only for in-patients but for scandal that the life expectancy of people with a serious people who attend accident and emergency services and mental illness will be shortened by between 20 and 25 those who are seen by the poisons unit, it reduces years. re-admission rates, provides better care and far better outcomes, and saves money. The pressure on A and E Anna Soubry: My hon. Friend is picking up on the services has been much in the news in recent weeks. point made by the hon. Member for Islington North Liaison psychiatry reduces re-attendance at minor injury about there being a real link between public health units and A and E departments, so such services are issues such as smoking and alcohol, and mental health vital. It would be really helpful to know whether the issues. Does my hon. Friend agree that we can do great Minister is aware of the evidence base and will be work in this area at a local level, especially under the promoting liaison psychiatry services. new arrangements whereby public health is devolved I want to talk about social exclusion and the role of back down to local authorities, where it used to be and mental health services in social exclusion. If a person is always should have been? homeless, they are far more likely to suffer from mental health problems. Equally, if a person has mental health Dr Wollaston: I am grateful to the Minister for that problems, they are very much more likely to end up intervention. There has been a consistent tendency to homeless and on the streets. In my area of Totnes, we ignore physical health problems in those who have tragically have suffered some deaths among our homeless severe mental health illness. She is right to say that population. We know from those who provide help to putting in primary prevention work locally is important, the homeless in south Devon the level of dual diagnosis— but the Government could perhaps do more on primary the number of people who have both mental illness and, prevention, through having a relentless focus. I am for example, addiction problems. I would very much grateful to her for the personal support she has given to like to hear from the Minister in her summing-up what addressing issues such as alcohol pricing and the availability work will be done to improve access to dual diagnosis. I of ultra-cheap alcohol. Such issues are very important, pay tribute to Mark Hatch and the work that he has and the Government need to deal with them to support been doing, alongside very many dedicated volunteers, the work that is being done. Minimum pricing is, of with the Revival Life Ministries and with Shekinah, course, not a magic bullet, but unless we address the providing an outstanding service to our local community. issue of ultra-cheap alcohol all the other measures that public health directors wish to take within local communities I want to raise a point about access to GP services for risk being undermined. the socially excluded and homeless. In coming months, there will be much focus on how we reduce health Anna Soubry: Does my hon. Friend agree that we can tourism. If, in reducing health tourism, we require do great work on the minimum pricing of alcohol at people to bring a passport to their GP in order to be local level? I urge her to examine the work being done in registered, very many people who are socially excluded Newcastle and, in particular, in Ipswich, where all the will not be registered because they simply do not have agencies are coming together. We have seen supermarkets access to identification. I ask the Minister, in addressing and many off licences agreeing not to sell cheap beer an important problem of great concern, to be particularly and lager. Does she agree that such an approach has the careful to avoid making it even harder for the socially potential to be a better way—I think it is one—of excluded to obtain help with their problems. That would dealing with this issue than minimum unit pricing? be a real avoidable tragedy. Prior to the debate, a constituent wrote to me most Dr Wollaston: Although I absolutely agree that those movingly about the Cinderella service around autism, projects in Newcastle and Ipswich are impressive, there and lack of access to mental health services for those will, unfortunately, always be ways in which they can be who suffer from autism, which has a knock-on effect on undermined. In my area we can find an example of their carers. Listening to accounts from parents, who maximum alcohol pricing, whereby white cider is being have been struggling for so long to obtain the help that sold at a maximum price of 23p a unit, and that is their children need, and their description of what happens destroying areas. There will always be a way for people as their children move into adult services, it becomes to get around a minimum pricing level and, although we clear that that is an area where services genuinely need can see real benefits from these projects, particularly for to be improved. I look forward to hearing from the street drinkers in isolated pockets, I feel overall that Minister what more can be done. 847 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 848

Finally, I return to the Health Committee’s review of that wished to amend its own submission. The IPCC the Mental Health Act. Would the Minister look at the claims it has repeatedly raised that point with the CPS, evidence on the variation in the use of community but to no avail. The CPS refused to prosecute. treatment orders around the country, and tackle that The IPCC, eager to put right its own admitted mistakes, variation? It cannot be right that in some parts of the tried to persuade the Metropolitan police to reopen its country they are not used at all, while in others they are investigation in order to trigger a fresh investigation by heavily used. The evidence base on their effectiveness is the IPCC. Following legal advice, the IPPC believed very poor. Should the Government lead on that, or that that would allow it to interview the police officers should the royal colleges take a lead, so that we have a under caution and include the pathologist’s findings in system that is transparent and used equally around the a new report to the CPS. The Met, unfortunately, had country? contradictory legal advice telling it that the IPCC could not overturn its own original report and refused to open 1.44 pm a fresh investigation. The IPCC is now accusing the Metropolitan police of blocking the investigation that Mr Steve Reed (Croydon North) (Lab): It is a pleasure the IPPC wants to reopen. to follow many moving and thought-provoking So we reach a highly unsatisfactory impasse. The contributions. I want to raise the case of Olaseni Lewis, police will not reopen the investigation, the CPS will known to his family as Seni, who died after his family not accept the fresh and potentially compelling evidence, left him in the care of the mental health service. Seni and the IPCC is not allowed to overturn its own decision was a 23-year-old young black man living in Croydon not to investigate under criminal proceedings even though North, the constituency that I now represent. He had a it believes that the original decision was wrong. In the degree in IT and plans for further postgraduate study. meantime, a bereaved family have been waiting, with Seni had no history of mental or physical illness astonishing patience and great dignity, for over two when, on 31 August 2010, he started to behave in an years and eight months for an answer on how and why uncharacteristically odd and agitated manner. His parents their beloved son now lies dead after they placed him in did what they thought was the right thing by taking him the care of a hospital when he showed early signs of to hospital. He was admitted as a voluntary patient for mental ill health. a few days’ assessment and care. His family left him, when visiting hours ended at 8 pm, with reassurances The questions that this case raises are profound and that they would be contacted if anything happened. frightening. The organisation Black Mental Health UK is concerned that black people are 44% more likely to be Seni became agitated in his family’s absence, and even subject to detention under the Mental Health Act than more so after he was told that he could not leave the their white counterparts, even though there is no higher hospital even though he understood he was there voluntarily. prevalence of mental illness among the black community. It appears he was sectioned in order to detain him Once in the system, black people are more likely to be against his will, and was then restrained and held face labelled psychotic than their white counterparts for down on the floor by several members of staff and by exhibiting exactly the same behaviour. They are also police officers who had been called after he kicked a more likely to be given a diagnosis of schizophrenia and door, although there is no evidence that he was violent to be considered an immediate threat than non-black towards anyone. people. This group is 29% more likely to be subject to Seni was held face down in a seclusion unit by up to restraint and 49% more likely to be placed in seclusion. 11 police officers for a total of 40 minutes in a way that Black Mental Health UK believes this may be the result appears to contravene international conventions on human of prejudicial assumptions made about young black rights and torture. During the course of that restraint, men in general, and in particular those labelled as Seni slipped into a coma and was eventually put on a suffering from mental ill health. life support machine, which is how his family found him If black people are being treated differently from when they were eventually called four hours after they other people in a way that threatens their well-being, had left him. He was pronounced dead four days later. the community needs reassurance that the mental health The Independent Police Complaints Commission is service is not institutionally racist. We need a public responsible for investigating the events leading to Seni’s inquest to establish exactly what happened to Seni death. Its investigation began in September 2010. Instead Lewis in the four hours after he was first taken by his of conducting its investigation under criminal proceedings parents to A and E in Croydon. To date the Lewis and interviewing the police officers under caution, it family have been failed by the mental health service and chose instead to accept written accounts which were the entire criminal justice system. Instead of the open never challenged. It now accepts that that was a serious inquiry this case deserves, we are treated to the unseemly mistake. spectacle of the IPCC, the CPS and the Metropolitan In August 2011 the IPCC referred the matter and its police fighting with each other and unable or unwilling report to the Crown Prosecution Service to decide whether to work together in the public interest to allow an to prosecute, with a recommendation against. In the effective investigation to take place. meantime, the IPCC had received new information that I have raised the case of the Lewis family with Ministers led it to believe that a criminal prosecution should in over recent months but I am dissatisfied with their fact be pursued. That new information, received in July responses. When I asked when an investigation would 2012, was the pathologist’s report, which raised fresh be progressed, I was told this was an operational matter, concerns about the extent of restraint used against but this case points to a wider systemic failing that Seni Lewis. Frustratingly, the CPS refused to accept requires Ministers to act and address it. When I asked that new evidence because it was not included in the the Home Secretary what advice was given to the police IPCC’s original report—even though it was the IPCC over how to operate in a mental health setting, I was 849 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 850

[Mr Steve Reed] 1.55 pm told none. When I asked what discussions had taken Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con): place between the Home Secretary and the Health It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Croydon Secretary about the use of the police in mental health North (Mr Reed) and other Members from across the settings, I was told none. When I asked the Health House who have given powerful speeches today. I Minister how many patients were restrained in a mental congratulate the Backbench Business Committee on health setting and what their ethnicity was, I was told granting this debate and colleagues across the House on that the Department of Health does not collect these requesting it, particularly my right hon. Friend the data. I do not wish to impugn the intentions of Ministers, Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow). but I have concluded that they are failing to give this This is an important debate because mental health is matter the priority it deserves. one of the last taboos in this country. There is still stigma, and that stigma has a devastating impact. The Norman Lamb: I apologise that I came in halfway impact is on those who suffer, who can feel isolated and through the hon. Gentleman’s contribution, but he is alone, who can face discrimination, who may be reluctant making extremely serious points. I would be happy to to seek help or the treatment they need and who worry talk further to him about the case after the debate. that even suggesting there may be an issue will lead to pressure on families and challenges to careers. So tackling this taboo, removing this stigma, is important, and a Mr Reed: I thank the Minister for his intervention. I way to do that is by encouraging openness, showing am grateful for his generous offer, which I will certainly that is not just okay to talk about mental health, but take up. right and important to do so. That is why debates such as these are so important. Jeremy Corbyn: I compliment my friend on an excellent The last debate we had here on the issue was one of speech. Does he agree that the problem of representation the best I have heard since I started here. Members of people both in initial assessments and when they are spoke powerfully and personally, and showed great placed in long-stay mental health institutions often leadership, particularly the hon. Member for North means that many poorer young black men never get any Durham (Mr Jones) and my hon. Friend the Member representation whatever and end up being completely for Broxbourne (Mr Walker). Talking about the issue institutionalised as a result, leading to those ludicrously here, in our national debating chamber, helps to change higher statistics for black and ethnic minority people, attitudes. It helps those who suffer by demonstrating who are no more prone to mental health problems than recognition of their challenges, and it places mental anyone else in society? health firmly on the health policy agenda and also on our national agenda. Mr Reed: I thank my hon. Friend for that contribution. I have long been concerned that mental health care is There are a range of concerns about the treatment of a bit of a Cinderella service within our NHS, and that is black people in the mental health system that need to be why I have chosen to speak up about it more than any tackled to reassure that community. other health issue locally. Service users are often very I believe other Members in the House will agree that vulnerable members of our community and are less able this cannot be allowed to go on. I urge Ministers to use to speak up for themselves. Some of the most challenging, their offices to persuade the IPCC, the CPS and the complex and moving pieces of casework I have had to Metropolitan police to work together to obtain a quashing tackle have all involved mental health issues. order against the IPCC’s original decision so that a Today I shall speak about two areas—dementia care criminal investigation into the Seni Lewis case can go and safe havens. Yesterday I attended the Alzheimer’s ahead, followed by a full public inquest. Instead of Society event in Portcullis House to launch dementia apparently washing their hands of the concerns that awareness week. Tomorrow I am opening a new care this matter raises, Ministers should acknowledge the home for dementia patients in Starbeck in my constituency. need for a national strategy on policing within mental We all know that dementia is an enormous problem. health settings. Every Member will deal with it in their constituency The organisation Inquest points out that it is an and every family will have to face it at some stage. There unacceptable anomaly that there is no independent are an estimated 800,000 people in the United Kingdom body charged with investigating deaths in the mental who suffer from Alzheimer’s. In North Yorkshire we health service, as there is for deaths in police custody. As have the highest proportion of people aged 85 and over a result of that anomaly, reviews are conducted internally, in the north, and we know that one in three people in they may not involve the family affected, and there is no that age category suffer from some form of cognitive collation or joining up of learning across the service impairment. That is more than 3,000 people in the nationally. After this case and other cases like it, the Harrogate district, but we have a diagnosis rate of only community deserves the reassurance of an independent 40% to 45%, so many people suffer without receiving inquiry into the treatment of black people in the mental the support they need. The average lifespan in my area health service. for people after a dementia diagnosis is 15 years, so Two years and eight months after their son’s death, living with and managing the condition is critical. the Lewis family still do not know how or why he died. The public hearings scheduled for July 2012 and then Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): I would like to raise a March 2013 were both delayed without explanation. small point about living with the condition on behalf of Seni Lewis deserves justice. The Lewis family deserve my constituent, Caroline Simpson, who has dementia justice and they must not be kept waiting any longer. but is physically capable of walking a certain distance. 851 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 852

Her family have been unable to get a disabled person’s When many normal members of the public think parking badge. This is an example of the problems that about people who suffer from mental health problems, occur in living with dementia. they often think about those who go around killing or assaulting people or self-harming, but they are a small Andrew Jones: My hon. Friend makes an important minority. The majority of people with mental health point. The challenges are not fully understood and the problems, as my hon. Friend the Member for North support that people need is not recognised. That example Durham (Mr Jones) said earlier, look very normal; it is just one of many forms of discrimination that can could be any one of us, or people who look similar to take place. us. Mental health issues do not often result in people In North Yorkshire there have recently been some self-harming, but there can be problems with depression changes in the way the problem is tackled. The Harrogate or with how to relate to families and friends or to the Dementia Collaborative has been formed, which brings community at large. together different bodies. I have met the collaborative Of course, sometimes those health issues are difficult and it has told me of the progress it has made. Bringing to indentify and assess, and as a result it is sometimes good care together really makes a difference. It means hard to prescribe the right treatment. However, I believe bringing together the different providers: the local mental that if enough time and effort is taken to try to identify health trust, the foundation trust, social services and the problem and support the person fully, it is probably the voluntary sector. easier to find out what is going on and what the right treatment is. A few ingredients have contributed to the progress Members have already touched on how people can be that has been made: working together to provide that reluctant to talk about their mental health issues because integration, which I have already mentioned, and cross- there is still an element of stigma and shame. Although service working is not always easy within our public it is great that people are talking about it, we know that services; specialist memory nurses, who were not in it is still not being talked about enough and that there is place two years ago; a clearer pathway to correct and still stigma. Mental health issues can also affect employment timely treatment, leading to great progress on waiting and housing and can lead to rejection by family and times; and a determination to provide care in the home friends. or as locally as possible. I applaud the focus being Different communities and groups of people have placed on dementia nationally by the Prime Minister been mentioned. My hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend and by Health Ministers, both in this Government and (Mrs Moon) quite properly touched on mental health the previous one. issues in the armed forces, and other hon. Members When I meet mental health groups in my constituency, touched on mental health issues in black and minority one of the issues they raise with me is the provision of a ethnic communities. I will mention that as well because, safe haven, a secure place where people can feel safe, in addition to a number of barriers, such as jobs, stigma and “safe” is the word that is used time and again. It is a and rejection by family and friends, they also face the place where they can find understanding of the challenges barrier of accessing appropriate care and treatment that they face, where there is no stigma and where a supportive is also culturally sensitive. environment exists. Such places must be provided by Although it is accepted that there is nothing genetically local NHS mental health services, but they can also be that makes people from black and minority ethnic supported by the work of the voluntary services. I groups more vulnerable to mental health issues, often would like to pay tribute to Harrogate Mind and its those issues are not diagnosed properly. Psychiatry in team, led by its chair, Mr Peter Thompson. I have the United Kingdom, understandably, is based on the visited its base, the Acorn centre on Station parade in western understanding of mental illness and often medical Harrogate, and found it to be a friendly and relaxed models are used to treat it, but in fact mental health environment with a fantastic range of activities. Users means different things to different people from different have told me that they view it as an essential safe place cultures and different communities, and they can be for them. However, the provision of such places is also a affected by many different issues, such as spiritual, public duty, something that must be recognised in the religious and background issues. Those might relate, for NHS and the police services, as the police are often on example, to the countries they have come from. Therefore, the front line in dealing with those who face mental a purely medical approach is not necessarily the right health issues. one for many people. A more holistic approach that Lastly, I have been pleased to see the Government looks at a person’s overall health should be considered. recognise the importance of mental health through Contrary to what was said earlier, there are of course publication of their “No health without mental health” problems with resources. We know that mental health strategy. I want to see mental health given the status it issues can be very expensive to deal with, because often deserves. it is hard to identify what is happening and the treatment might take months or years and require one-to-one 2.2 pm assessment. It is much easier when somebody has a damaged arm or a faulty kidney; such conditions can be Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab): I congratulate expensive to treat, but at least they can be identified and the right hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul treated. Once the treatment is done, the person recovers. Burstow) on securing the debate and thank the Backbench But mental health is unique in that respect, because that Business Committee for granting it. I also pay tribute to does not happen. all hon. Members who have spoken today and in the We know that drug and alcohol addiction is often previous debate. They have covered many aspects of linked with mental health issues. In fact, units that deal mental health, many types of mental health illnesses with addiction are very expensive, so there are funding and many groups of people affected by them. problems. I know that from my own practical knowledge 853 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 854

[Yasmin Qureshi] cannot be in two places at the same time. I also apologise for missing the introductory speech by my right hon. and experience, having been a criminal law practitioner Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow). for 20 years before becoming a Member of Parliament. I pay tribute to everything he has done to put mental When clients were charged with various criminal offences, health on Parliament’s agenda. they often had psychiatric problems or problems with It is unquestionably the case that Parliament has got drug or alcohol addiction. When they were being sentenced, its act into gear on this. I refer to Parliament rather than the pre-sentence report would often require us to look the Government or the Opposition because this is genuinely into drug or alcohol rehabilitation units. The first question an all-party matter. Last night I went to a very encouraging we used to ask was whether the local authority or social event, which other hon. Members attended, run by the services responsible for the person had the necessary Alzheimer’s Society. The Minister was there, as was the funding. Weeks used to go by while everybody searched shadow Secretary of State, a Conservative Minister, around to find the funding so that the person could go and my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and into the unit. That is why I raised funding for mental Cheam, and they spoke with their customary eloquence. health issues earlier and questioned whether it is sufficient In fact, to be fair, there were not very many Members and appropriately applied to the whole country. In parts there. I think that other people were detained with of the country, there are very good practices and systems, matters that had something to do with Europe. However, but in many others that is not the case. It is a question of all of us who were there would have to acknowledge ensuring that the same treatment, facilities and services that no matter how eloquently the Minister or the are available across the whole country. shadow Minister spoke, the most impressive speech was More treatment centres should be available in the by a very feisty medical lady who had Alzheimer’s and criminal justice system. There should also be more discussed the importance of talking about her condition psychologists and psychiatrists. The problem we had in and people talking to her about it. criminal cases was that the person in question often That emphasises the fact that there is a blurred division needed to be assessed by a medical expert or psychologist, between people who have mental problems, allegedly, and it used to take weeks and weeks before that could and those who appear not to have them. There genuinely be done, which then used to take time away from is not a clear distinction, other than at the extremes. If treatment. Six months can elapse between somebody we were asked who here has perfect mental health, we being charged and getting treatment. That is if they would not necessarily all volunteer with alacrity, any even get the treatment, because sometimes the funding more than we would if someone asked who has perfect authority will not fund it, so they end up in the prison physical health. It is rather like the Bible saying that the system, which does not help them. That is partly why a person who is without sin has to step forward. We large number of people, in comparison with the rest of would not say that because we acknowledge that we all the population, commit suicide in prison. have our own peculiarities and weaknesses and are not Everybody here, including Ministers, I am sure, wants as mentally robust as we would always wish to be. to deal with mental health on a humanitarian level, but I was made aware of that the other day when I went there is also an economic and financial case for ensuring to an event organised by Liverpool Personal Service that the system is working properly. If we are able to Society, which is a well-established charity. The event help a person to recover from their mental health problems, was a memory day for elderly people in which it invited it will be better for our country and for society generally. me to participate. The old ladies and old men were For example, if an adult who cares for children suffers passing round objects that came from their youth, and mental health problems and is not treated properly, music was being played in the background that also those children will often be taken away and put into came from their youth. The environment was made to care homes or with foster families. That is an incredibly look almost like a 1950s drawing room. I was very expensive process. If we are able to support and help the struck by what it did for them. It was like the events parent, the thousands of pounds that it would cost to organised by football clubs such as Everton and my deal with the problem will be saved. Everyone talks own local football club in Southport, which bring old about the humanitarian case, and we all agree with that, men together to talk about teams long since vanished but it makes economic sense as well. and the glories of the past. I pay tribute to hon. Members who have mentioned I picked up on two important features of that occasion. their mental health experiences; it is great that that has First, it was undoubtedly beneficial to the people concerned, happened. I hope there is a debate about this issue in the who have dementia. Secondly, it is not in any way rest of the country and it is appreciated that many onerous for anybody else to participate in it. It is people can experience mental health problems of differing incredible fun. It is really enjoyable to hear these people natures. If we recognise that, then medical and social talking about things that are now obsolete, like cigarette services professionals, and others, can intervene to help. cases, nylons of the kind that people had in the war, or I congratulate the hon. Member for Broxbourne EPs—things that we no longer have and that our children (Mr Walker) and my hon. Friend the Member for do not even understand. That brings it home to us that North Durham on talking about their experiences. It memory is very relative. There is no magic cut-off point takes a lot of courage for a public person to mention between a memory lapse that may afflict us at any these issues, and I thank them for what they have said. time—

2.12 pm Mr Kevan Jones: Nick Clegg knows all about that. John Pugh (Southport) (LD): I apologise to the House John Pugh: We are presumably talking about for not having been here at the start of the debate. I was unintentional memory lapses—senior moments that may in the Finance Bill Committee, and unfortunately I afflict any of us. 855 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 856

There is no absolute cut-off point between mildly I just want to put the issue on the record for the obsessive behaviour and obsessive compulsive disorder, Minister to think about; I do not expect any instant between mood swings and genuine bipolar conditions, answers. As many Members have said, it is hard enough or even between irrational fears of which everybody is to talk about mental health, but raising the issue of the sometimes a victim and some of the conditions we mental health problems of the victims of a secret, taboo would call paranoia. There is a continuum; it is, to some and illegal practice that we have never successfully extent, a matter of degree. It is even possible, apparently, prosecuted adds several layers of difficulty to an already to have hallucinations without having schizophrenia. difficult situation. We know enough, however, for the Delusions are not unique to asylums; there are many matter to be put on the record so that somebody at the victims in this place. There is nothing especially rational Department of Health can at least think about it. We about clever, civilised people gathering here every should be worried about it. Wednesday at 12 o’clock just to shout at one another. Female genital mutilation is practised in many countries There are two aspects to addressing the stigma of around the world, but it is predominantly an African mental health. One of those is to persuade people that practice. In this country, it is practised predominantly this can happen to anyone, including MPs. That is very by communities from east and sub-Saharan Africa. important. The other job is to persuade the public that Most professionals in the field think that the largest mental health is not an either/or, black/white distinction. diaspora groups in which FGM remains prevalent are I recognise that there are conditions such as serious probably from Kenya and Somalia; it is certainly heavily neurological malfunctions, deterioration of the brain, practised in those countries. and so on. Affective disorders can be evident in people In the absence of a more up-to-date study, people classified as being well and also in people classified as work on the numbers given in a 2007 study by being unwell with mental health issues. What determines FORWARD—the Foundation for Women’s Health, the classification is not only the severity of the condition— Research and Development—which was itself based on the extent to which the person is down one continuum the 2001 census. The study established that there are at or another—but the capacity of society to deal with the least 66,000 women with FGM living in England and condition and the ability of the person to cope within Wales and that about 21,000 more girls are at risk of society with the condition. The cultural comparison becoming victims. Of course, given the substantial migratory made by the hon. Member for Bolton South East trends of people from practising countries to the UK in (Yasmin Qureshi) is useful in this context. The mental recent years, the real figure is likely to be higher. health of a society and the mental health of individuals are intertwined, and one is the index of the other. I In 2004, the British Medical Association recorded wonder whether, when we talk in this place about that it believed that there were 9,032 births to women producing a prosperous society or economic growth, or who had had FGM. It should be noted that not all doing something about social mobility or social inequality, hospitals are required or able to record FGM at birth, we ask ourselves sufficiently whether we are doing and I know that one of the Minister’s ministerial colleagues enough to make society a happy place for us all to is looking at trying to get that right. Recent freedom of live in. information requests by the press also show that hundreds of similar women are giving birth every year in hospitals Let me add one other point with which I think you, in Leeds, London and elsewhere. We know that this is a Madam Deputy Speaker, will be au fait. Community problem and that the practice is not being abandoned at treatment orders were a bone of contention throughout anywhere near our desired rate. the passage of the Mental Capacity Act 2005, when I served on the Bill Committee. We have to review that During visits to schools in my constituency in recent issue, and the Minister needs to make a response. I months, I have asked questions about the issue—other think that we made the right decision, but that depends Members may also have done so—but I have not received on whether the Act is understood and implemented any satisfactory answers. Most recently, a headmistress properly. There is a genuine case, particularly given who knew about the practice, which is unusual, had some of the variations, for trying to see whether we have been told by a school community worker, “Don’t go got it right. there. Let’s not talk about that topic.” This is a problem; do not let anyone believe that it is a myth and that we do Mr Charles Walker: On that point, it is very important not have a problem in the UK. to ensure that advocacy requirements are being met. A study cited by the World Health Organisation in the mid-2000s examined the effects of FGM on the John Pugh: Absolutely, and I hope the Minister will mental health of women. The researchers concluded take that into account when he responds. that FGM is “likely to cause various emotional disturbances, forging the way 2.19 pm to psychiatric disorders,” Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): Thank you, Madam especially post-traumatic stress disorder, possible memory Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to speak in this debate. dysfunction and other problems associated with trauma. I had not planned to do so, but I realised earlier today This issue was brought home to me by a Radio 5 that I wanted to address an aspect of female genital programme I took part in recently after a two-part mutilation, which I have discussed often in the House. story on “Casualty”—they were two very powerful When I listened to the opening speeches, I realised that episodes—featured the acute health aspects of FGM. I have never talked about an issue that many of the The story centred on an older sister who was trying to campaigners I work with discuss a lot, namely the stop her younger sister being taken abroad to be mutilated, mental health aspects of both acute and, in particular, and on the impact of birth on the mother of the family, chronic FGM. who had been infibulated. 857 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 858

[Jane Ellison] Jane Ellison: That does not relate strictly to the debate topic, but I will answer. We do not strictly know, One of the other guests on the Radio 5 discussion the but a growing body of evidence suggests that FGM following morning was a marvellous GP called Dr Abe does happen here. The girls I meet through some of the from Slough, who told me that she sees two or three groups I work with will say off the record that it is women a week who have chronic illnesses, some of happening here, but it is more difficult to get people to which are mental-health related, associated with FGM. say so on the record and to point the police in the right She asked me—the BMA stresses this and I will cite its direction. For example, women are re-presenting having guidance in a moment—to imagine the trauma experienced being re-infibulated in hospital, which is also illegal. I by a small girl who is being held down by people who think there is enough evidence now to suggest that are usually relatives or people she knows while a brutal FGM is happening here, but I think that the predominant procedure is carried out on her without anaesthetic. It is view, and that of the police and the Crown Prosecution not difficult to imagine that such children will be troubled. Service, is that girls being taken overseas is still the In case anyone thinks that such things do not really biggest problem. Since 2004, when a private Member’s happen, let me point out that Dr Abe said that she Bill closed a loophole in the Prohibition of Female regularly deals with children and young women whose Circumcision Act 1985, such girls have also been covered bodies are contorted with pain and whose limbs are by British law. The extraterritorial aspect of the law bruised, broken, battered and dislocated as a result of means that it is against the law to take a British resident being held down by relatives. Few people who have that or citizen abroad to perform FGM on them. Either way, done to them by those who purport to be their loved that is covered. I think it is happening here, but we do ones will then go on to live with them as a family. I not know. think we can all imagine the special and difficult mental health problem associated with that, and we are only Mark Hendrick: Have there been any prosecutions? beginning to understand it. Jane Ellison: No; to the eternal shame of this country, The BMA’s 2011 guidance acknowledged that little is in 25 years of this being an illegal act, there have been documented about the psycho-sexual and psychological no prosecutions. effects of FGM, but it does say: In recent times—I will return to the mental health “Long term consequences might also include behavioural aspects in a moment, Mr Deputy Speaker—we have disturbances as a result of the childhood trauma and possible loss of trust and confidence in carers who have permitted, or been had encouragement because Keir Starmer, the Director involved in, a painful and distressing procedure” of Public Prosecutions, has been really good on this issue. He has a new action plan for the Crown Prosecution and that Service. It has reopened several old cases and is going “women may have feelings of incompleteness, anxiety and depression, through them with the police to see whether a prosecution and suffer chronic irritability, frigidity, marital conflicts, or even is possible. It is also looking more imaginatively at psychosis.” prosecuting the aiders and the abetters, such as the Many of the professionals and campaigners I work people who set up the travel and those who supply the with stress the growing problem of anger, particularly strong pain killers. If we wait for a seven-year-old girl to among young women who suffered FGM before coming walk into a police station and report her parents, we will to this country. They are in a conflicted state, because have a long wait. That is one reason why there have been the mentality of those who put them through FGM no prosecutions. However, I am more optimistic now could not be more different from the mentality that they than ever that the police and the CPS are taking the see around them in Britain. It is considered entirely matter seriously. normal in a sexualised society for magazines to invite To return to the mental health aspects, a recent young women to express their sexuality and have a survey by the National Society for the Prevention of fulfilled sex life. If someone has had a procedure carried Cruelty to Children showed that 83% of teachers either out on them, the entire aim of which is to stop them do not know about FGM or have had no training on it. wanting to have sex and to be a sexual person, and to From memory, 16% of teachers thought that condemning restrict them and preserve their virginity—and everything FGM was culturally insensitive. That is extremely else associated with the centuries-old tradition of FGM— disturbing, given that it is an illegal act. that leads to conflict. Both Efua Dorkenoo, who wrote the WHO guidelines, Mr Charles Walker: It is child abuse. There is no and campaigners such as Nimco Ali of Daughters of ambiguity. It is child abuse and it must be stopped. Eve talk about a growing pool of angry young women who are caught between those two very different worlds. Jane Ellison: I could not agree more. It is also difficult for them to talk about it, because the My worry is about the 83% of teachers who just do subject is already taboo. Some Members may have read not know about FGM or have not had the training. a recent article in The Sunday Times, which reported There are good guidelines, but they are not statutory. that Nimco Ali, who has been very bold in speaking Not enough is filtering down. In my constituency, I out, has been threatened by people telling her that she have encountered people who say, “Don’t go there. It’s should stop speaking out. too difficult.” There is a role for Members of Parliament in pushing this matter at a constituency level. If teachers Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op): Is the hon. have no idea what FGM is or what the behavioural and Lady saying that FGM is taking place in this country, psychological consequences might be, they will fail to or are parents taking their children abroad to have it understand why a young girl who has come back from done before coming back? being mutilated abroad is exhibiting naughty, disturbed 859 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 860 or bad behaviour. It is therefore important to get more to repeated rape by an invading force. She was a refugee knowledge out there about the physical and psychological in this country. It was a tragic case. Although the aspects of FGM so that we can understand and help physical manifestations of the ordeal had healed, the children who present with signs of being disturbed. mental manifestations continued a decade on. She could In UK culture, women have an expectation that their not function either as a woman or as a mother and wife. sex life will be enjoyable and that they can have a That case drove home to me that many of the mental normal expression of female sexuality. That is very health issues that we face in this country are ignored much at odds with the mentality that leads to somebody simply because we cannot see them. That is reflected in being mutilated. Many of the women who are suffering the funding priorities in the NHS. the physical and mental complications of FGM do not Two issues have come to my attention recently through speak English and live in socially isolated communities my casework: the speed of treatment and the consistency in which they are not encouraged to speak about it of care. One of my constituents had to wait for many because it is entirely taboo. That is added to the taboo weeks to be referred to a psychiatrist. She was able to of speaking about mental health. cope with that, but every time she went to see the The lack of knowledge about FGM among teachers psychiatrist for an appointment, she saw a new psychiatrist and medical professionals will increasingly be a problem and had to repeat her case history. Although the notes as diaspora communities become scattered to places in may have been there, the new psychiatrist either had not the country where professionals do not see it as much. It bothered to read them or wanted the patient to repeat is easier for a specialist in central London to know what the details. That was disruptive to the treatment. they are looking for. Even if we stopped all FGM My second constituent was a young teenager who happening to young girls tomorrow—would that we grew up being treated for an eating disorder in a residential could—we would still have to deal with the large number unit. I see that my hon. Friend the Member for Romsey of women who are suffering the long-term consequences and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) has returned of it. to her place and I heard her powerful comments. When There is documentary evidence that some parents my constituent turned 18 or 19, she was no longer have second thoughts about having done this to their suitable for the facility that she was in. She had to fight children. Some parents express regret. The Home Office for a new facility, with the help of her parents. When had a good initiative last year, which we adopted from she eventually got into a new facility, it was not in the the Dutch, in which it provided girls and parents with a same place or with the same clinicians. That disruption health passport to carry abroad with them to remind of care and change in setting set her and her family members of their extended family that the practice is back a huge amount. illegal in the UK and that they must not do it, but must No matter what I did, I could not make the mental respect the rights of the child. health trust realise that sometimes the rules are there to be broken, or at least bent, if the mental health of the Mrs Moon: The hon. Lady is making some very patient would benefit from continuity. Continuing my interesting points, but the focus of this debate is mental constituent’s care when she was 19 or 20 might not fit health. Perhaps she could conclude by pointing out the the rules, but it fitted the patient. I gently ask the mental health messages— Minister whether there might be some service-level agreements on allowing flexibility in provision. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. It is for the Chair to decide what is in order and what the The NHS website on improving access to psychological debate is about. I need no help from the Back Benches, therapies does not mention service standards, consistency although it was very kind of the hon. Lady to intervene. of clinical care or speed of referrals. The website of the Barnet, Enfield and Haringey Mental NHS Trust mentions Jane Ellison: I have clearly outstayed my welcome, so a named care co-ordinator, who I assume is an I will conclude. I realise that time is short. administrator, but there is no mention of clinical standards or continuity and speed of care. The point that I want to make is that there is a significant mental health aspect to FGM, but that it I realise that this is a complex issue and that there are is not well documented. Not many of our front-line no easy solutions, but I gently ask the Minister whether professionals have it at the front of their minds when the Department of Health will consider publishing trying to explain other problems. I just want to put that guidance on speed and continuity of care because it on the record so that the Minister and the Department would benefit my constituents greatly. of Health can reflect on it and so that it starts to become a normal thing for mental health professionals 2.39 pm to talk about and think about, particularly when they see people from communities that practise FGM and Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) who might have suffered it. (Lab): I apologise to the House for not being present for the debate’s opening speeches, which was due to Many of the young girls and women who talk about circumstances beyond my control. I certainly meant no FGM speak of a silent scream for help. All I wanted to lack of respect for this debate; I think these Backbench do today was to give that scream a voice in the House of Business Committee debates have been one of the more Commons. important and successful innovations of this Parliament, and mental health is a particularly important subject. 2.36 pm I congratulate the right hon. Member for Sutton and Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con): Cheam (Paul Burstow) on leading the debate in a One of the first mental health cases that I came across detailed and informative fashion, and my hon. Friend was that of a wife and mother who had been subjected the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon), who raised a 861 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 862

[Ms Diane Abbott] health issues and taking regard of people’s different cultural backgrounds, which I thought was important. number of important points, including alcohol abuse There was, as always, an interesting and provocative and its impact on mental health—those two issues are speech from the hon. Member for Southport (John inextricably linked. I follow the hon. Member for Totnes Pugh), and I was interested to listen to the hon. Member (Dr Wollaston) in saying that if we are concerned about for Battersea (Jane Ellison) who spoke about mental addressing alcohol abuse, one issue—although not the health and female genital mutilation—if it had been my only issue—must be to do something about the flood of choice, her speech could have gone on longer. I thought cheap alcohol that is overwhelming some of our she raised important issues, and the House should communities, and putting in place a minimum price for respect the lead that she has shown in addressing the alcohol. I am glad to say that that is the Labour party’s issue, which is difficult for people outside the affected policy. communities to address. If in future some young girls I congratulate the hon. Member for Broxbourne are not subjected to that child abuse because of her (Mr Walker) on his speech. I remember a similar debate work, she will deserve the congratulations of this House. last year in which he made a moving speech about his The hon. Member for Finchley and Golders Green experience, which resonated country-wide. Since then, (Mike Freer) also made an important contribution. he has shown great leadership in leading the mental We have heard figures for the incidence and prevalence health all-party group. He made a number of important of mental health problems, and because it is a Cinderella points, including the fact that although the NHS can be service and a Cinderella issue it is always worth reminding good at managing symptoms, it is not necessarily so people that one in six people in Britain is affected by good at addressing their underlying causes. I will return mental illness at any one time. In other words, almost to that issue when I mention Atos later in my remarks. every family will have experience of mental health. It is I am sorry to have missed the remarks of my hon. not something that happens to other people, but something Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones). He that happens in our own families. One in four of us will is always well worth listening to, and he too received suffer from mental illness at some point, and by 2030, country-wide respect for his contribution to last year’s depression will be the leading cause of disease around debate on mental health when he spoke about his personal the world, costing the NHS a further £10 billion a year. circumstances for the first time on the Floor of the The criminal justice system will also pick up the bill House. He made a number of important points, including because 70% of those in our prisons have a mental that mental illness and depression are equal opportunity illness. Mental health problems cost British business conditions. They do not discriminate; they affect all almost £26 billion a year. social classes and backgrounds. The subject has been addressed by my right hon. The hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward North (Caroline Nokes) spoke about a number of issues, Miliband) who made an important speech to the Royal including borderline personality disorders and the way College of Psychiatrists in October last year. The key that eating disorders affect women and girls. She made points he made are worth reporting and concern the the important point that, although we sometimes associate importance of breaking down stigma—something that mental disorders with socially marginalised communities the House dwelt on at length in last year’s debate—and and persons, eating disorders can affect the most high- the importance of parity of esteem for mental health achieving, educationally focused girls. That issue should within the NHS. My mother was a mental health nurse not be trivialised because it is harming the life chances, in Huddersfield, and her hospital was a former Victorian health and well-being of many young women up and workhouse on the fringes of Huddersfield. Having an down the country. old workhouse outside the city for mental health issues, My good Friend the hon. Member for Islington and mainstream health services in the centre, illustrates North (Jeremy Corbyn) made an important speech the lack of parity of esteem for mental health in relation about mentally ill people in prison. When getting caught to the services we offer, and also to practitioners at up with the “prison works” narrative, it is worth every level within mental health services. remembering how many people in prison are either Finally, my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster illiterate or simply mentally ill, and if we want to North mentioned the importance of mental health in contain the number of people in the prison estate, we our society, and argued that good mental health does must address the mentally ill. My hon. Friend also not start in hospitals but in workplaces, schools and mentioned black and minority ethnic communities and communities. He took the opportunity last October to mental health, and I will return to that point later. announce the formation of a taskforce on mental health The hon. Member for Totnes made an important in society, which will look in particular at employers speech and mentioned social exclusion and BME mental and the role they play. health. My hon. Friend the Member for Croydon North (Mr Reed) made an important speech about Olaseni Lewis and the issue of black and minority ethnic persons Jeremy Corbyn: Perhaps my hon. Friend can help me. detained under the Mental Health Act 1983. I am glad I hope that the taskforce will also look at issues surrounding that the Minister has agreed to meet my hon. Friend the voluntary sector and its excellent work within the and engage with him and the family on that issue. The mental health service, as well as the dangerous tendency hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew of franchising out mental health services to the private Jones) also made an important speech. sector by some mental health trusts that do it for profit rather than care. My hon. Friend the Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) made a speech about—among other things—the importance of a holistic treatment for mental Ms Abbott: My hon. Friend’s points are well made. 863 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 864

Let me consider the future for mental health and set entirely that Atos should not be a blunt instrument used out for the House how important the role of local to beat people with mental illness. We need a system authorities can be in addressing the social determinants that empowers people with mental illness to re-enter the of mental ill health. Public health has become the labour market, and not one that terrifies them. responsibility of local authorities. They have a ring-fenced I endorse the hon. Lady’s views on young men. public health budget, and despite all their pressures and Young men need to feel part of something and they difficulties—which I do not seek to minimise—there is need to feel wanted by their community. They need to an opportunity for local authorities to do important have a job and a role. If they do not have those things, and interesting work, bringing together education and they join gangs. Her point about young men was beautifully housing with health care to address mental health problems and perfectly made. and intervene in them early. I was shocked to hear of a social housing project near Ms Abbott: I entirely agree with hon. Gentleman. King’s Cross that, presumably to make its tenants more Changes in society and economic changes such as the manageable, did not want to give tenancies either to collapse of manufacturing and de-industrialisation have people who had a history of rent arrears or to people left many young men unclear about their role, which who had a history of mental health problems. Such puts tremendous pressure on their health and well-being. things need to be highlighted and addressed. Sitting Before concluding, I want to say a few words on responsibility for public health with local authorities black and minority ethnic persons and mental health. It could address mental health, particularly in respect of has been known for at least 25 years that BME persons early intervention and preventive work with children in are disproportionately present in the mental health schools. system. We are more likely to be diagnosed as schizophrenic, I gave a speech this morning on the crisis in masculinity. less likely to be offered talking therapy, and more likely We need to focus on the mental health challenges that to be offered drugs and electro-convulsive treatment—the face men. Whether it is because they are unwilling to hon. Member for Totnes touched on that important come forward or because of stress in society, we know point. There is therefore a great deal of fear and anxiety that, during a recession or economic downturn, suicide about approaching the mental health system on the part rates among men increase. Suicide is currently the biggest of some of our BME communities. Very often, mothers cause of death among under 35s. In planning services will be trapped at home with sons who have serious nationally and locally, we need to pay particular attention mental challenges. I have dealt with cases in which they to that issue among others. are assaulted in their own homes, but are so frightened The hon. Member for Totnes made an important of the system that they will stay trapped rather than point. She said that, in our desire to reduce health take their sons for treatment. That is a real problem. We tourism—a desire supported by the Opposition—there must monitor what is happening and use the voluntary is a notion that people will need their passport when sector. We need to ensure that minority groups do not they turn up to see their GP. That runs the risk of hold back from presenting with mental health problems. making it harder for the socially excluded to access The later people present, the more severe the problems. health care—many simply do not have a passports or Mental health is the biggest financial burden on the such documentation. health service. It will affect the families of all hon. I will not speak at this point about the merits or Members in the Chamber in our lifetimes. There is otherwise of the welfare reforms, but there is a lot of much to be concerned about in mental health trends. anecdotal evidence that they are having an effect on the For instance, there is a rise in mental health issues mental health of some who are caught up in the system. among young people. Fully half of lesbian, gay, bisexual There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that Atos, as it is and transgender youngsters are self-harming. currently configured and as it currently operates, does As I have said, there is a relationship between an not meet the needs or seem to understand the problems economic downturn and a rise in suicides of men under of people with mental health challenges. the age of 35. None the less, there is the possibility of progress. I believe that there is now less stigma about Mark Hendrick: I am sure that my hon. Friend, like mental health than there was a generation ago, and the many other hon. Members, has come across many debate we had last year on the Floor of the House constituents attending surgeries who are developing played its part in helping to lessen it. I think there is serious mental health problems purely and simply because more understanding about some of the contributory of the pressures caused by the reforms to the benefits issues than there was a generation ago, and I believe system. I am finding that people who are mentally ill that public health going to local authorities opens up and do not know it are getting worse—they are under the possibility of innovation in mental health, working pressure from the benefit changes that have been made together with the voluntary sector. and those that will take place in future. I am grateful to the right hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam for securing the debate. I hope that it is part Ms Abbott: I am afraid that there is increasing evidence of a process of parity of esteem that will improve the that worry about the changes and about the threat of outcomes for so many of our men, women, family the changes is causing a lot of stress for people with members and communities. mental health issues. Social services and health authorities must be mindful of that. 2.55 pm Mr Charles Walker: I apologise to the hon. Lady The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman because I am about to leave the Chamber—I am chairing Lamb): I thank the shadow Minister for her contribution. a debate in Westminster Hall in a moment. I agree I feel that this subject brings out the best in this place—we 865 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 866

[Norman Lamb] cannot expect private sector and other public sector employers to act properly if the Government do not have had a well-informed, civilised and rational debate. lead, so it is important to demonstrate parity of esteem There has been no political point scoring, just thoughtful in the way that the Government treat employees. concentration on an important subject, and I am grateful My right hon. Friend also referred to the adult psychiatric to all hon. Members. morbidity survey. I can confirm that discussions are Before I come on to the contribution of my right hon. taking place between the Department and the Health Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow), and Social Care Information Centre and that it should I will say that I completely agree with the hon. Member take place in 2014. He also referred to the intelligence for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) network. NHS England and Public Health England are that the arrival of public health in local authorities developing plans and using the cancer intelligence network presents us with an opportunity. The establishment of as a model, not necessarily to replicate, but to learn Public Health England brings its expertise to bear on its from. I am grateful to him for raising those issues. relationships with local practitioners in public health, The impassioned words that we have heard today working alongside other services. The potential for public show that within these walls lies the ambition, across mental health, which has been largely disregarded or all parties, to make the necessary changes, and I thank ignored in too many places in the past, is real. At the all hon. Members who have spoken about their experiences, conference for the directors of children and adult services views and, yes, even their criticisms. This sort of open in Eastbourne last October, I attended a presentation debate can help to challenge stigma, scrutinise services by an academic from the London School of Economics and scrutinise commissioning decisions, which are critical on the economic case for interventions in public mental in terms of how much money is allocated to mental health. There is a powerful return on investment, which health as against physical health and to ensuring that means that people are benefiting from it. We have a mental health remains a core priority not just for the great opportunity, and I am grateful for the hon. Lady’s Government, the House and the NHS and care system, comments. but for the whole of society. The hon. Lady made important comments about black and minority ethnic communities and the mental We have heard many good contributions. I shall write health system, and I will come back to that. I appreciated to hon. Members to respond to the substantive challenges the comments made by the hon. Member for Croydon and questions they have raised, but let me touch now on North (Mr Reed), and I will refer to them later. several quick points made today. The hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) mentioned the importance of The hon. Lady raised the issue of suicide and young recognising the link between alcohol abuse and mental people. There are too many cases in too many hospitals health. She talked about people who have left the armed where people who have self-harmed turn up and do not forces with problems of post-traumatic stress disorder, get a psycho-social assessment. We know that having which has become prevalent with the conflicts in Iraq, that assessment, with the therapy that can follow, massively Afghanistan and so forth. Simon Wessely and his colleagues reduces the risk of suicide, yet only about 50% of A and are doing some fantastic work on that. E departments ensure that that happens. That has to change, because lives are literally at stake. We have to The hon. Lady also mentioned the role of the police, take this issue very seriously. particularly the Metropolitan police, and made the I am tremendously grateful to the Backbench Business valid point that they are not trained well enough or Committee for giving us another chance to talk about systematically enough. Lord Adebowale, whom I met mental health. I again pay tribute to my right hon. this week to talk about his report, makes the point that Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam for leading the police will always have to deal with mental health. It the debate and for the great work he did in office to lay is not a question of it being wrong that they are dealing the foundations for the progress we are now tangibly with it; the critical point is that there should be close making. The previous Government invested heavily in working between the police and mental health services mental health, as well as the rest of the health service, so that there is an immediate referral, not an inappropriate and it is right to acknowledge that progress was made in placing of someone in a police cell. Just imagine suffering that period. The focus on parity of esteem, and making from a mental health crisis and ending up in a police it a reality, is potentially exciting. I was struck by an cell. It is the worst possible thing that could happen. interview with Angela McNab, the chief executive of Even children sometimes end up in police stations. It is the Kent and Medway mental health trust, which is one totally inappropriate and avoidable—that is the important of the larger mental health trusts. She said that the point. Government were The hon. Members for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) and “prioritising mental health like never before, making sure that it for North Durham (Mr Jones), who have done so much fits on a par with physical health”— to challenge stigma, have performed a valuable service and that this had come as a welcome step change to in speaking out about their own experiences of mental mental health professionals. That is an encouraging illness. They have demonstrated, very visibly, that someone view from the front line. can be successful and make an enormous contribution My right hon. Friend raised several important points, to society, yet also have mental health problems. That is including about recovery colleges. I am very interested an incredibly important point. The hon. Member for in the whole recovery model and the role of recovery Broxbourne talked about the role of employers and colleges. He also talked about the importance of the mentioned some really good employers, such as BT. inspiring Time to Change campaign, which is part- This is about enlightened self-interest, not just about funded by the Government. I mentioned earlier that I being kind to people. It is in companies’ and employers’ am encouraging all Departments to sign up to that interests, including the Government’s, to treat mental campaign, so that we can lead from the front. We health issues seriously. The cost to employers when 867 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 868 those suffering from mental health problems lose their patient safety and dignity issues in our physical health jobs—the loss of all the training and experience or just care system, I suspect that we will need to ensure that the sickness absence—is enormous, but it can be significantly we are not distracted or led into not addressing the reduced with a smarter approach. The hon. Member for same issues—which clearly exist—in our mental health North Durham talked about a number of individuals systems. who have had mental health issues, but also been very successful. He talked a lot about the importance of Norman Lamb: My right hon. Friend makes a very tackling stigma. good point and I completely agree. The hon. Member for Croydon North (Mr Reed) The hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton made an important contribution about the treatment of North (Caroline Nokes) spoke again about eating black people by mental health services—the shadow disorders—I took part in a debate that she secured in Minister talked about that as well. There is something Westminster Hall. She talked about the role of parents, wrong that has to be challenged. The hon. Gentleman the nightmare of a child—I will call them a child—over raised the case of Seni Lewis, which I am happy to talk the age of 16 deciding to refuse treatment and the to him about—I have surgeries on Monday night. I have horror that parents sometimes go through when they agreed to attend the Black Mental Health conference are not listened to sufficiently by clinicians dealing with on police and mental health in June, because I felt it was their loved one’s condition. She also mentioned type 1 important that I should engage in this whole issue and diabetes sufferers, and I would be interested to hear take it as seriously as it deserves to be. more about that. The hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston)—I My hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and apologise for missing her contribution and a number of Knaresborough (Andrew Jones) is no longer here. Oh, others—raised a number of issues. I will ensure that she yes he is! He has moved to a different place, just to receives proper responses to them. She talked about confuse me. He talked about the low diagnosis rate for liaison psychiatry. While we are talking about emergency Alzheimer’s and dementia in his area. He also stressed services, one thing that has become more and more the importance of the recognition of mental health by apparent to me is the complete disparity between what the Government, which I think he welcomed. happens to people with mental health problems and what happens to those with physical health problems. I The hon. Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin was utterly shocked—but sadly not surprised—by a Qureshi) talked about the importance of accessing letter that a Member of Parliament in the south-west appropriate and culturally sensitive care and treatment. wrote on behalf of a constituent. The constituent had That is incredibly important, as is getting the approach rung the crisis number for mental health services in his right for each individual and giving them the power to area and had not got a reply. No one was answering the determine their priorities. She made those points well. crisis helpline. On another occasion they rang and were She also stressed that the picture round the country was asked to ring back in half an hour. In the meantime that very variable. That is more the case in mental health person could have committed suicide. than in physical health. Some areas have great services, some of which I have witnessed, but in others they are Then we come to what happens in A and E and the simply not good enough. fact that in too many hospitals there is no mental health specialism available. Last Saturday I met a constituent who had found her son at home with ligature marks Ms Abbott: On the question of culturally appropriate round his neck. She took him to A and E, where there care, does the Minister agree that it can extend to quite was a half-hour conversation with a junior doctor before mundane matters? There are mental health wards in he was discharged home. The next day she found him this country with large numbers of BME people in hanging in her home. She is determined to pursue the them. Those people sometimes do not have the right complete failure of the system when something so dreadful hair care or the right music, or they might not have their can happen. culinary needs addressed. Those things can be really Whether we are talking about what happens when disturbing for someone who is already in a mentally someone is picked up in the middle of a mental health fragile condition. crisis by the police and taken to a police station inappropriately, what happens when someone tries to Norman Lamb: Yes, I completely agree. This is about get in touch with crisis services or what happens at A treating people as individuals, and with dignity and and E, we have to have an effective emergency mental respect. Those things are important to people and they health response system in place. This is a matter of real should be treated as such. urgency, so I have asked all the relevant organisations—the Home Office, the Association of Chief Police Officers, Jeremy Corbyn: My hon. Friend the Member for the Department of Health, the Royal College of North Durham (Mr Jones) and I raised the question of Psychiatrists and so on—to come together and draw up the work capability interviews being undertaken by the an agreed plan to tackle the most stark differences Department for Work and Pensions with people with between the treatment received by people with physical mental health conditions. I do not think that the Minister health needs and that received by those with mental was in the Chamber at the time, but we suggested that it health needs. would be better for the DWP to have access to those people’s medical reports rather than conducting rather Paul Burstow: That is a welcome announcement from bald interviews. Would the Minister be prepared to the Minister about achieving parity of esteem in emergency undertake discussions with the DWP about the treatment and crisis care. However, in the wake of the Francis during those interviews of people who suffer from inquiry, which rightly drew our attention to serious mental health conditions? 869 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 870

Norman Lamb: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman waiting time for physical health, which is a very powerful for his intervention. I was going to mention his contribution, political driver of where the money goes, yet we have even though I was not present to hear it, for which I nothing equivalent for mental health on the other side. apologise. As a Member of Parliament, concerns have That, to me, is a lack of parity of esteem. For people been raised with me about the suitability of those tests with mental health problems, early access is particularly for people with mental health problems, and I was important to ensure that their condition can be halted, going to suggest that I should talk to the appropriate if possible, and the deterioration stopped. The hon. Minister at the DWP. I am of course happy to do that. Member for Finchley and Golders Green made a good Someone else made the point that this is not a question point there, and he also rightly talked about the importance of not addressing the need to help people get back into of consistency and continuity of care. work. Work is particularly important in relation to I want to mention four of the most important things people suffering from mental ill health, and the idea that this Government are doing to create the environment that we should simply leave them undisturbed and out and incentives for improving mental health across the of work for the rest of their lives is totally wrong. The system as a whole. The first is the Health and Social way in which we handle this is incredibly important, Care Act 2012, which creates a “parity of esteem” so however, and if we have more to learn in that regard, we that mental and physical health share the same importance, should be prepared to learn the lessons. as we have discussed this afternoon. Changing the law is Mr Kevan Jones: I made the point in my speech that just the start, but it sends a clear signal—that mental work was good for people with mental illness. The health is important, and that the health and care system problem is that the present system is inefficient and can and must play a leading role in changing attitudes costly, and that it is creating absolute agony for many across society as a whole. people. I know that the Minister has a great understanding Secondly, there is the mandate the Secretary of State of, and a deep passion for, the subject of mental health, has issued to NHS England. It shows the importance and I urge him to put pressure on the DWP to change we have ascribed to mental health and makes it clear the system. We are not asking that people should be where improvements are needed. The mandate makes excluded completely from work capability tests; we are clear our overarching goal—that mental health must just asking for the system to be changed. have equal priority with physical health across all aspects of NHS work. In particular, we have highlighted the Norman Lamb: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman need to close the gap in outcomes between people with for reminding me that he, too, had made that point. mental illness and the population as a whole, as well as I knew that someone else had talked about it, but I the absolute imperative to ensure that people can access could not remember who it was. I take his point; I have the services they need when they need them. Neither of heard it. these facets of good mental health treatment is entirely My hon. Friend the Member for Southport (John up to scratch at the moment. I think we all recognise that. Pugh) made a thoughtful speech in which he talked about reminiscences. Oh! He has gone! Even though it pains me, as a Norwich City supporter, to talk about Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab): The Minister Everton, it appears that Everton and even Southport is generous in giving way, and he is making some very have done some very good work in these areas. My hon. important points. Would he include within this the Friend talked about a continuum of mental health. importance of access to family therapy both to repair That was a good point, well made. He also mentioned broken relationships and to aid recovery—an issue that community treatment orders and the need to look at Oxford Mind raised with me? how they are working. I will certainly reflect on that. My hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Jane Norman Lamb: Yes, absolutely; I understand the Ellison) made a powerful contribution about the mental importance of that. Incidentally, I visited children and health aspects of female genital mutilation, a most adolescent services in Oxford and I was very impressed horrific experience suffered by so many young girls. I by the work under way there. I am getting a message really pay tribute to her for the work that she has done that I am under some pressure from Mr Deputy Speaker on that issue. to make some progress— The fact that there are 66,000 females in this country who have suffered this assault was an extremely striking Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Imaybe point. able to help the Minister there. It is not a question of The hon. Member for Finchley and Golders Green pressure from me; it is a question of the Backbench (Mike Freer) talked about waiting times for access to Business Committee suggesting that Front-Bench treatment. He asked if he could gently challenge the contributions should be up to 15 minutes. If he looked Minister—I appreciated that approach. On the mandate at the clock, he would recognise that he has spoken for for the NHS Commissioning Board, NHS England has more than 20 minutes. He should not suggest that the been very clear that we expect it to assess the scale of Chair is interfering; it is the Backbench Business Committee. the problem of access, including for IAPT. Other Members have raised the question of whether we are meeting the IAPT programme’s four-week target. We want the NHS Norman Lamb: I am sorry for putting the blame in Commissioning Board to assess the scale of the problem the wrong place; I take full responsibility; I have tried to with a view to setting access standards. be responsive to Members as I have proceeded. One of the big problems relating to what I regard as We are working with NHS England to decide how the institutional bias against mental health is that on best to measure progress in these areas. Because, as we one side of the equation we have the 18-week maximum all know, words are not enough, we have to be certain 871 Mental Health16 MAY 2013 Mental Health 872 that the objectives we have set out on paper actually In order to avoid any further trouble from the Backbench translate into better, more accessible care for those who Business Committee—rather than from your good self, need it. Mr Deputy Speaker—I shall draw my remarks to a Thirdly, I mention the three outcome frameworks: close. for the NHS, adult social care, and public health. These Today’s debate allows us to explore what more we can frameworks will enable us to hold the health and care do to improve services for people with mental health system to account for achieving what matters most—good problems, but as I said earlier it also allows us to outcomes for the people who use services and for the encourage others to follow suit. We all have the same population as a whole. In the NHS outcomes framework, ultimate ambition—to provide excellent services and there are four measures that relate specifically to mental support for all who need it, when they need it—but if health and many others that include mental health just we are to achieve that ambition, all groups need to do as much as physical health. The other outcomes frameworks their bit. We will not be able to do this alone. However, contain other measures designed to ensure that we we can lay the groundwork to ensure that local leaders improve well-being and tackle the wider determinants and local people can develop the excellent mental health of mental health, and that we provide the best possible care and treatment that can turn our common ambitions care and support to those people with mental health into reality. problems who need it. I thank all Members who have spoken today. I also Finally, I want to mention our continuing commitment thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing to the IAPT programme. Since the programme began, it me to speak beyond my “guideline” time, and to explain has treated more than 1 million people with depression what the Government are trying to do to improve access and anxiety, and as a result nearly 75,000 people have to, and the quality of, mental health treatment. Again, I moved from benefits into work. Nevertheless, we need congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for to do more. We are currently involved in a joint programme Sutton and Cheam on securing the debate. with the Department for Work and Pensions, which I am pleased to be able to count on my parliamentary involves commissioning work to find a way of providing colleagues to maintain the momentum of discussion of much speedier access to psychological therapies for mental health in public forums, and I pay tribute to all people with mental health problems who are out of who have spoken for their incredibly valuable contributions. work. It seems crazy that we are spending money on I look forward to our third convention. benefits when giving those people access to therapy might help them to recover and return to work. 3.23 pm Paul Burstow: I thank the Backbench Business George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): Will the Minister Committee again for enabling us to have the debate. I give way? also thank those on both Front Benches, my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) and Norman Lamb: Very briefly. the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon), and every other Member who has either intervened in the debate George Freeman: I am sorry that I was not able to be or contributed directly. present earlier. I pay tribute to the Government for the work they are doing, and to the Backbench Business Today’s debate on mental health, like last year’s, has Committee for raising this issue. Does the Minister created and elevated a sense of hope. It has made it agree that, on the role of mental health in mainstream clear that there is a real commitment across parties in health, there is important evidence concerning outcomes the House to do better and to do more: to enable people and compliance with mainstream medicine? Important to gain access to the right care, at the right time, in the work carried out in America by the United States right place. That means starting early. It means starting Veterans Association and the American dementia and in our schools. It means ensuring that when there is a mental health societies has shown the importance of crisis, we have an emergency service that is as good as positive psychology in helping people to recover and our physical emergency services. I welcome what the play an active role in society. Minister has said about that today. A number of Members have suggested that this should Norman Lamb: The hon. Gentleman has made some become an annual debate. Clearly Parliament needs to extremely good points. hold the Government and the NHS Commissioning Board to account on these issues, and it would be good The Government are implementing a diversion service if we could find time every year to see just how much to ensure that, as far as possible, people are diverted progress has been made. from the criminal justice system and from prison if that is not where they should be. If they are suffering from It has been very interesting for those of us who follow mental health problems, they should ideally be given Twitter to see just how many people have been tweeting treatment rather than being locked up inappropriately about the debate. It has already extended well beyond in prison. the confines of this place, and that is to the good. I am pleased that so many Members have taken part, and I Personal health budgets are a really good innovation, am very grateful to them. I hope we will eventually started by the last Government and continued by this reach a place where there is no health without good one. Giving people—particularly those with mental health mental health. problems—power to determine their own priorities, and giving them some control over the resources available Question put and agreed to. for their treatment, is an incredibly important development, Resolved, for which I shall continue to proselytise at every opportunity. That this House has considered the matter of mental health. 873 16 MAY 2013 Road Traffic Offences (Sentencing) 874

Road Traffic Offences (Sentencing) come back into society, having paid their debt. However, the justice system is also there for the victims to see that Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House justice has been done and that when they have been do now adjourn.—(Anne Milton.) violated in any way the perpetrators of the crime against them make recompense and have to pay a debt to 3.24 pm society. That might involve a fine, a custodial sentence Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): First, let me or a driving ban, which is another point I wish to deal say that it is not my intention to take up the full two with a little later. hours that are available to us for this debate, but I do Louise would say that it is a perception—it is her want to raise an issue that is very important, in particular perception—that people who commit a minor speeding to my Sherwood constituency. One of the issues on offence, which is still an offence, are prosecuted on a which I stood for election was resolving the terrible regular basis, as we can agree is only right and fair, but road safety record in Sherwood, particularly around the people who commit a much more serious offence such A614, a stretch of road with which all in the east as dangerous driving or careless driving do not suffer midlands will be familiar. There have been a lot of fatal the same enthusiasm from the Crown Prosecution Service; accidents on it, with people killed at some of the terrible there is a reluctance to pursue convictions for such junctions. That was affecting the local community. offences because of the amount of evidence that has to There was one tragic accident in which six people be gathered in order to pursue them. That sends the were killed, which resonated particularly strongly with wrong message to society, and the House needs to the local community, and it became one of my ambitions overcome that and ensure that we turn that tide, so that to get elected as a Member of Parliament and resolve not only is justice being done, but it is being seen to be some of the problems facing the people living around done by our constituents and they can have confidence the A614. I have campaigned long and hard to introduce in it. We have to put our hands up and say that many measures to improve junctions. We have been able to people get caught speeding, but people need to feel that improve the Ollerton roundabout and make traffic flows those who commit serious offences are being pursued much smoother. We have also been able to put in new by the legal system with the same vigour and enthusiasm. traffic lights at the Rose Cottage junction and improve That is very important and it leads me to my second the flows in and out of Edwinstowe. point, which relates to where the justice system is letting We have also introduced average speed cameras, which us down. It seems wrong that where someone is convicted have reduced traffic speeds along the A614 and—I of a very serious driving offence and is sent to jail, and hesitate to say this—stopped the fatal accidents; there part of the sentence is a driving ban, they can serve that has not been another one since they were introduced. ban while they are in prison. Given that they cannot Those cameras are not universally welcomed. Some of drive then anyway because they are being held at Her my constituents do not like them; they complain they Majesty’s convenience, it would seem only appropriate delay their journey, so it takes them longer to get from that any driving ban that is part of the sentence should A to B. I recognise the frustration of some drivers be served when they come out of prison and back into travelling up and down our busy roads, but my priority society. I would ask the Minister to pass my comments is making sure people are not killed on the roads. on to the Justice Secretary; he should examine that issue closely on his return, as it is a fundamental part of this It is important to draw a distinction between a conviction debate. for speeding, for which someone might get a £60 fine and three points on their licence, and more serious There is another perception that people get enormously incidents for which the perpetrator might be convicted frustrated about—my constituents certainly do. Most of dangerous or careless driving. There is a conception people work hard, they purchase a car, which can be among the public that it is easy to secure a conviction very expensive, they pay their tax by buying their tax for speeding, such as driving at 34 mph in a 30 mph disc and they pay for insurance to drive that car. They zone, but that there is less enthusiasm among the police also pay for an MOT to make sure it is roadworthy and and in the Crown Prosecution Service to go after the if they are caught committing a driving offence, they of more challenging conviction of dangerous driving, as course pay their fine. However, a section of society does the burden of evidence is much greater. not take out insurance, does not pass a driving test and does not obey the laws. When such people are caught I was contacted by a constituent of mine, Louise committing a driving misdemeanour, they are often Stanbrook, who had been to a concert at the Nottingham taken to court, prosecuted and then given points on arena and was crossing the road to walk home when she their licence—which they do not possess—and banned was knocked over by a driver and quite seriously injured. from driving, even though they did not possess a driving She suffered a broken collar bone and was knocked licence in the first place. Members of the public find it unconscious. She also suffered damage to her teeth and enormously frustrating when they see all the hoops they spectacles and to her possessions. It was a very serious have to jump through to be a law-abiding citizen and to incident. The perpetrator had a number of previous drive appropriately, yet they perceive that those people driving convictions, and was also due to be sentenced who—I hope hon. Members will forgive my Sherwood for another crime unconnected to this driving offence. language—stick two fingers up at the law and ignore it The CPS and the police decided it was not in the public seem to get away with it. That really does need addressing. interest to pursue the individual for the driving offences he had committed on this occasion, as he was serving Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): Does the an offence unconnected to driving. hon. Gentleman agree that one idea worth considering It strikes me that the justice system is there for two is giving greater flexibility for juries on the upper sentences reasons, the first of which is to make sure that those allowed at the moment? It seems to me that there are who commit crimes are rehabilitated and are able to certain cases where juries ought to be able to give a 875 Road Traffic Offences (Sentencing)16 MAY 2013 Road Traffic Offences (Sentencing) 876 higher sentence based on the situation in the case, because, gather the evidence to get those convictions. They should as he rightly says, it is ludicrous how low some sentences not simply lay the burden of keeping up the number of are. convictions on the minor offences. There have been some terrible accidents in which Mr Spencer: I am grateful for that intervention. I was people have been injured, and some fairly high-profile just coming to that point. ones which reached the media. Bradley Wiggins, our I suppose the challenge is that the law is in chunks— Olympic and Tour de France-winning cyclist, was a careless driving, death by careless driving, dangerous victim of a cycling accident in which he was knocked off driving, death by dangerous driving—and there are not far from your constituency, Mr Deputy Speaker. We very tight boundaries. There is no sliding scale of do not want to be knocking off our potential Olympians, punishment. I believe that lack of flexibility is what to say the least. That case drives home the fact that drives the CPS sometimes not to go for the more serious people out there, pedestrians and cyclists especially, are chunk, but to satisfy itself with a conviction lower down at risk of serious injury, and when that tragedy happens, the scale because it can be sure of obtaining one. That we look to the law to recompense us for that injury and needs addressing, and the only way to do that is to have to give us the justice that we deserve. a review of what laws are in place and whether those tools need adapting. Within the current law the tools are available to make those serious prosecutions, but at 3.39 pm the moment the CPS is not minded to go for those The Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty’s Treasury serious convictions, whether that is because of the chunking (Mr David Evennett): I begin by congratulating my hon. of the convictions or the lack of a sliding scale. That is Friend the Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer) on what needs addressing. obtaining this afternoon’s debate on the sentencing of people convicted of road traffic offences. I commend As a point of interest, the Nottingham Post reported him on his thoughtful and considered speech, which I that in Nottinghamshire, 58,373 speeding tickets were listened to with great interest. I know that he is an issued in 2011-12. That shows that our police force is assiduous and hard-working Member, serving his out there, robustly enforcing speeding offences. constituency and his constituents and raising issues of Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con): Does concern to them. my hon. Friend agree that speed cameras have a bit of a May I express the apologies of the Under-Secretary bad reputation? They are almost regarded as a cash of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for machine only to be used by the police. Would he, like Kenilworth and Southam (Jeremy Wright), for not being me, be encouraged by the increased use of speed awareness here to respond in person to the debate on behalf of the courses, which are a restorative way of combating people Government? He is at a conference in Birmingham and speeding rather than simply going straight for the points asked me to respond on his behalf. I am delighted to be and fines, and would he hope that that would be extended able to do so. across the UK? As my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood made Mr Spencer: I would agree with that. We must remember clear, driving offences are a very important issue, with that the purpose of speed cameras is not to catch potentially very grave consequences when they result in people; it is not to get cash out of drivers. It is to accidents and innocent victims are harmed, injured or prevent them from being killed or seriously injured. I killed. I was extremely sorry to learn of the case of his get many letters from constituents asking for the police constituent, Louise Stanbrook, a pedestrian who was to go into their village—I hesitate to use the words injured by a dangerous driver. “speed trap” because it gives the wrong impression, but I should like to highlight the interesting and valuable that is what they often ask for. They want the police to contributions made by the hon. Member for Clwyd enforce speed limits to ensure that people driving through South (Susan Elan Jones) and my hon. Friend the their villages and towns do not break the speed limit, Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Jake Berry). My particularly outside primary schools and other local hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Mr Scott) is schools. That gives me confidence that we are on the in his place and I know that he, too, is concerned about right side of the argument—that our constituents want the issues of sentencing and road traffic offences. My enforcement of speed limits and want the law to be late father, Norman Evennett, said to me many years obeyed. However, they want a balance between serious ago when I started to learn to drive, “Remember, a car and minor offences. The perception is that there is not driven dangerously or badly can be a lethal weapon”—very that balance at the moment. wise words indeed. If I may summarise, my No. 1 request is to remove Sentences in individual cases are a matter for the the anomaly of driving bans coinciding with prison courts to decide, subject to the maximum limits and sentences. If a person is convicted of an offence, serves sentencing guidelines. When deciding what the appropriate time in jail and receives a driving ban, the start of the sentence within the range should be, the court will driving ban should be postponed until their release consider the seriousness of the offence. This includes from prison, so that there is that extra removal from our both the culpability of the offender and the harm that roads for those who have been convicted of a driving the offence has caused. The court will also consider any offence. Secondly, I want to encourage the CPS and the other aggravating or mitigating factors. The law therefore police to use all the tools at their disposal. I am sure seeks to punish those who cause death or injury on the the Department would be more than happy to receive road in a way that is appropriate to the degree of blame representations from the CPS or the police if they have that can be attributed to the driver. reservations about some of those tools. I would encourage Our framework of driving offences and penalties is the CPS and the police to be more diligent and look at kept constantly under review, and the Government have going for more serious convictions if they feel they can strived to ensure that the framework remains balanced 877 Road Traffic Offences (Sentencing)16 MAY 2013 Road Traffic Offences (Sentencing) 878

[Mr David Evennett] Therefore, it is apparent that the offences and penalties are kept constantly under review to keep the framework and proportionately addresses the range of unacceptable appropriate to changing behaviour on our roads. However, behaviours which occur on our roads. We will consider our courts sentence independently, having full regard to what my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood said the features of each individual case and to guidelines. today and we continue to monitor these issues as a matter of course. Our current law provides a framework Mr Spencer: My hon. Friend is doing a fine job of of offences to deal with bad driving and dangerous outlining for the House the current tools available in the practices that impact on driving at every level. Every tool box. Ministry of Justice figures show that, tragically, offence is extremely serious, irrespective of the consequences. the number of motoring deaths remained static between 2002 and 2012. Meanwhile, the number of convictions Jake Berry: On the topic of very serious offences, my for dangerous and aggravated offences has come down hon. Friend will appreciate that the most serious of all and the number of convictions for careless driving has driving offences is one in which someone loses their life. gone up, which suggests that those deciding what to He will be aware of the reduced mortality rate when prosecute are choosing the lesser option of careless people are travelling at 20 mph rather than 30 mph. Will driving. Would he care to comment on those statistics? he join me in congratulating Lancashire county council, which recently made the speed limit on all side streets 20 mph, which is fast enough wherever we live, and will Mr Evennett: We are of course aware of those statistics he join me in encouraging Blackburn with Darwen and look at them carefully. We are determined, in the council to take a similar initiative to help save the lives guidelines, to encourage prosecution of the more serious of young people in Darwen? offences, and we are endeavouring to do that. However, I must highlight that it is very difficult for the Ministry Mr Evennett: I welcome any measure that helps to of Justice, because it is not our responsibility to do that. save lives. The issue that my hon. Friend raises is a On the other hand, we are setting the guidelines and matter for the Department for Transport, not for the giving the courts the independence and freedom, and Ministry of Justice, but I take on board what he said we want to ensure that they use the powers they have. and congratulate any council that reduces the speed The Sentencing Council sets out guidelines, which limit, which has a positive result, saving lives and preventing the courts must have regard to, advising in greater detail injury. what courts should do in particular types of cases. We Fatality, of course, holds a special place in these give the guidelines and encourage, within the statutory affairs, which is why particularly robust penalties are limits Parliament has set, of course. We encourage, but available where death is caused by bad driving. Where the courts have to make the decisions. The Sentencing drivers cause death either by dangerous driving or by Council has issued two relevant sets of guidelines: those careless driving while under the influence of alcohol or on driving offences where death is caused, which were drugs, judges can sentence them to a maximum of 14 issued in 2008; and the magistrates court sentencing years in jail. Other measures include an unlimited fine guidelines, including guidelines on summary driving and a minimum two-year driving disqualification. Where offences, which were updated in 2012. Obviously we death is caused and there is sufficient evidence of gross constantly look at updating those. negligence, drivers can be charged with the offence of With regard to the relevant treatment of speeding manslaughter, which carries a maximum penalty of life and drink-impaired driving, speeding is punishable by a imprisonment. fine of up to £1,000, or £2,500 when committed on a Summary road traffic offences include careless driving, motorway. The court may disqualify the offender and speeding, driving with excess alcohol, driving while must impose penalty points. Driving under the influence disqualified and using a mobile phone while driving, as of alcohol is punishable by a fine of up to £5,000 or up well as other offences relating to the condition of the to six months’ imprisonment. The court must disqualify vehicle, safety measures such as seat belts and offences the offender for at least 12 months. Those convicted of relating to non-compliance with, for example, driving serious driving offences face the prospect of lengthy direction and traffic lights. Those offences are punishable custodial sentences. In 2011, the average custodial sentence in some cases by short custodial sentences. Some carry length for those convicted of causing death by dangerous mandatory disqualification. All carry the potential for driving was over four years. Accident statistics from the robust fines and points on an individual’s licence. Department for Transport suggest that speeding and Following the 2005 review of road traffic offences, drink or drug-driving are fairly equally unacceptable in two new offences were created and, since 2008, have terms of harm caused. In 2011, an estimated 9,990 been available to prosecutors: causing death by careless reported casualties—5% of all road casualties—occurred driving, and causing death where a driver is unlicensed, while the driver was over the legal alcohol limit. The disqualified or uninsured. The maximum penalties for provisional number estimated to have been killed in those offences are five years and two years respectively. drink-drive accidents was 280. Exceeding the speed They attract a minimum disqualification period of one limit was reported as a contributory factor in 5% of all year and can be punished by an unlimited fine. In accidents, but these accidents involved 14% of fatalities. December 2012 the Government introduced a new offence Drug impairment was reported as a contributory factor of causing serious injury by dangerous driving in order in 644 road casualties. to fill the gap where bad driving causes very serious Generally, Great Britain has a very good road safety injury but sentences were previously limited to two record, but we cannot afford to be, and will not be, years because only the plain offence of dangerous driving complacent. Deaths and serious injuries on the roads could be charged. The new offence has a maximum are a terrible tragedy for those affected, as highlighted penalty of five years. in the case mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member 879 Road Traffic Offences (Sentencing)16 MAY 2013 Road Traffic Offences (Sentencing) 880 for Sherwood. It must of course be welcome that the Mr Evennett: I will, of course, pass on that suggestion. general trend is for road fatalities and casualties to fall, We work closely with the Home Office and the Department but every such case is one too many for the victims and for Transport; one of the many great things about this their families. Government is that the Departments are working closely Compared with the period 2005-09, the number killed together. Our Department is working closely with colleagues in 2011 was 32% lower, the number reported killed or in other Departments to make sure that the quality of seriously injured was 17% lower, and the number of life is improved for all our citizens, and this is one such children killed or seriously injured was 19% lower. example. However, the Government will not be complacent. We Since the publication of the strategic framework, the will monitor those numbers and do what we can to push Government have continued to focus on empowering them down and to make sure that convictions of those local decision makers, improving driver training and who offend are implemented. taking a more targeted approach to enforcement. Recent developments include the introduction of legislation on The Government’s vision for road safety remains one drug-driving to improve enforcement; the launch of a in which Britain is a world leader; where local authorities new speed limit circular to improve the flexibility of are empowered to take informed decisions about road local authorities in setting the speed limits; and work safety in their area, as my hon. Friend the Member for with the insurance industry to develop policy opportunities Rossendale and Darwen (Jake Berry) described in his to reduce risk in young drivers. That will, of course, area; where driver and rider training gives learners the include looking at insurance premiums and whether skills they need to be safe on our roads, which is vital; they can come down if people are good drivers and and where tough measures are taken against the minority seeking to improve their driving skills. We are concerned of offenders who deliberately choose to drive dangerously. to make sure that young drivers in particular have the They are the ones we need to get to, because they are the skills and knowledge to be safe and good drivers. We ones who are causing such distress, danger and injury. are also creating a £15 million fund to improve safety In 2011, colleagues in the Department for Transport for cyclists outside London by tackling dangerous junctions, published a new strategic framework for road safety alongside a £15 million fund for the same purpose in that focused on supporting road users who have weak London. driving skills, or who have displayed a lapse of judgment, Provisional figures show that Great Britain and the to improve their driving through a greater range of UK remain the leading performers in Europe on road educational courses to help deliver safer skills and safety. However, as I have said, every road accident that attitudes, while focusing enforcement resources against results in injury or fatality is a tragedy for the people those who deliberately decide to undertake antisocial concerned and the communities they live in. Our strategy and dangerous driving behaviours that cover all careless will build on our solid foundations in order to improve and dangerous driving offences. This is the Government’s our road safety performance even further and to ensure twin approach to improving road safety. I hope that my that sentences are appropriate to the offence, which is hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood will be reassured the issue that my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood by that. We are determined to make sure that those who has highlighted. The sentence has to be appropriate for drive dangerously are dealt with appropriately. the road offence committed, and the Department is focused on doing our best to achieve just that. Jake Berry: I must admit that I have some experience I thank my hon. Friend for giving us this opportunity of the speed awareness course. One of the incentives to to debate sentencing for people convicted of road traffic get people to go on that course is that by not taking the offences, which is a very important subject for all our penalty points, they will not increase the cost of their constituencies. I hope that I have set out the action insurance premium. However, Admiral Insurance has being taken by the Government and I will pass on my recently asked people to disclose whether they have hon. Friend’s comments and concerns to the Secretary been on a speed awareness course, and that will potentially of State and the relevant Minister. The Department will increase their premium. Does my hon. Friend share my continue to monitor how to improve things for the fear that we will lose this vital driver re-education tool if benefit of every road user, whether they be a pedestrian, people start to lose the insurance benefits? a cyclist or a driver, so that we can cut down on tragic fatalities and injuries and make sure that those who Mr Evennett: I note what my hon. Friend says. I am drive dangerously are punished accordingly. looking at this in the context of educating people; the Question put and agreed to. insurance situation is beyond my remit. However we manage to deal with it, the whole point is to educate 3.57 pm more people to be considerate and better drivers. We House adjourned. should look at every aspect to improve the standard of driving so that we cut down on the incidence of injury and death on the roads.

Mr Spencer: Will the Minister talk to his colleagues CORRECTION in the Home Office to see whether people who are convicted of a driving offence while on holiday could conduct their road awareness training back in their own county Official Report, Wednesday 15 May 2013: in Division to save them driving back to the location of the offence? No. 3, at column 751, delete Mr Kwasi Kwarteng.

1WH 16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 2WH

Evidence from countries that have transferred Westminster Hall responsibility for careers guidance to schools, such as the Netherlands and New Zealand, does not support Thursday 16 May 2013 that approach. In those countries, the schools were at least given funding to supply the service when they were given the duty to do so; nevertheless, the Committee [MR JOE BENTON in the Chair] was told that even there, the transfer of the duty had resulted in a significant reduction in both the quality Careers Guidance and extent of careers guidance provision in schools. That is why we described the transfer of responsibility [Relevant documents: The impact of the new duty on as regrettable, much to the Government’s chagrin. schools, Seventh Report of the Education Committee, Separately, the OECD has highlighted the limitations Session 2012-13, HC 632, and the Government response, of a purely school-based model of careers advice. They Session 2012-13, HC 1078.] include lack of impartiality, weak links with the labour Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting market and inconsistency of provision between schools. be now adjourned.—(Karen Bradley.) That matters, because young people need guidance in order to make good decisions. A recent study by the 1.30 pm Education and Employers Taskforce, led by Nick Chambers, Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): underlined the problem. The taskforce surveyed 11,000 I am delighted to be here to lead this debate under your 13 to 16-year-olds, mapping their job ambitions against august chairmanship, Mr Benton, and to have the the employment market up to 2020. It showed that opportunity to discuss my Committee’s report. I am teenagers have a weak grasp of the availability of certain also pleased to be joined by so many Committee members jobs. For example, 10 times as many youngsters as there and ex-members, and to see that all three main parties are jobs likely to be available were aiming for jobs in the are represented in the debate. The reason why we are culture, media and sports sector. here is that the ministerial decisions considered in our I acknowledge the pressing need to deliver spending report will have profound and far-reaching consequences. efficiencies where possible, but this is not a spending Young people need good-quality careers guidance if efficiency; it is the promotion of spending inefficiency, they are to make informed choices about the courses as we waste money by placing students on the wrong that they take at school and their options when they courses. When the Committee visited Bradford college leave school. That is all the more important now due to in October last year, I met a young man whose experience the difficult economic backdrop. typifies the waste of time, money and potential to which Is such good advice typically available? No. It is poor careers guidance, or the complete lack of it, can worth putting on record that the Government inherited lead. He was taking a course to join the uniformed a bad situation: a dysfunctional system of careers guidance. services. He had wasted the previous year on a course In 2009, the Panel on Fair Access to the Professions that was not right for him and would not have led to a reported on the low level of satisfaction with the careers job in the fire service, which he wanted to join. To add guidance work provided by the Connexions service, insult to injury, this young man, who wanted to be a which is little mourned overall. In 2010, Ofsted criticised fireman, found out during the appropriate course that inconsistencies in provision. the fire service is now shrinking, and that there was unlikely to be a job for him at the end of his course. The The Education Act 2011 represented a chance for a system let that young man down, and it is doing the fresh start. The Education Committee’s report was country no good at all. How did it happen? He did not prompted by the introduction of the new statutory duty receive proper guidance about the courses that he needed on schools to secure access to independent, impartial to realise his dreams, or even guidance about the dreams careers guidance for pupils in years 9 to 11. The Committee that he had a chance of realising. came to the conclusion that the transfer of responsibility to schools was regrettable, as was the way it was done. That is just one anecdotal example. When the experience Our view was prompted not by any nostalgia for the is scaled up, huge amounts of money are being wasted. previous arrangements but by concern about how the With youth unemployment at 21% and the CBI currently transfer was implemented. At the time, Ministers had characterising the transition from school to work as other priorities. They were under great budgetary pressure, “chaotic”, the policy smacks of false economy. and careers guidance lost out. None of the £196 million None the less, the Committee accepts that the new in funding that the Connexions service received for its arrangements involving the statutory duty on schools careers guidance work—£196 million to provide the are in place, and being so freshly put on the statute signposting that we argue is vital for young people to book, are not immediately likely to change. Schools make the right choices and ensure that the public money have the duty. If I appear to be giving the new Minister that serves their needs is spent in the right way—was a hard time, I recognise that he only has one foot in the passed to schools. Department for Education, whose performance on the Following the change, a survey by Careers England issue has been so woeful. He also has responsibility in found that only one in six schools had the same level of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, investment in careers activities as the year before. That whose performance has been much better. is, one in six maintained what they had. The Minister The launch of the National Careers Service is a needs to take that seriously. The survey also found that huge boost to careers guidance for adults. It is essential not a single school had increased its level of investment, in an integrated and competitive world, and it is re- even after the Connexions service, however patchy its professionalising careers advice. The Committee was performance, had been removed from the scene. therefore pleased—nay, delighted—that the Government 3WH Careers Guidance16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 4WH

[Mr Graham Stuart] on careers guidance provision, as Ofsted itself acknowledges. Accordingly, we urged Ministers to pursue the development accepted our recommendation that the remit of the of more sophisticated education destination measures, National Careers Service should be expanded to enable to make the data analysis more meaningful. it to perform a capacity-building and brokerage role for Only yesterday, I questioned the Secretary of State schools. for Education before the Select Committee. He apologised On the subject of the NCS, I note with regret the for failing to include destination measures in the recent resignations of Heather Jackson and Professor Government’s accountability consultation for schools, Tony Watts from the National Careers Council because and he made a commitment to do further work to they believe that the Department for Education has strengthen the accountability proposals in that way. We been “escaping its responsibilities” by proposing that support our Ministers’ ambition to expand the time the funding provided by BIS for the National Careers frame of the destination measures and to try to make Service should be stretched to fill the gaps in services for them a reliable set of data that can be used to hold young people. They observe that the Department for schools to account—something which, for now, we do Education has provided the NCS with only £7 million not do. in funding, compared to the £83 million that BIS has Careers guidance can provide a crucial signpost for provided for adult careers services. rewarding employment. It can help young people—such Will the Minister reassure us that the Department for as the young man I met in Bradford—to make the right Education is committed to supporting the work of the choices first time. With the right advice, that young man NCS properly? Will the Department realise the opportunity could have a clear sense of where his opportunities lie. that the NCS provides to ensure that we have an all- If the fire service was not recruiting, he could explore a ages, competent, re-professionalised careers service? An job with another branch of the services, such as the opportunity has arisen from the Government policy Army. He would not waste time repeating a year, and that established the NCS. An extra £50 million in funding, could get a job when he left education. High-quality, set against the £56 billion education budget, could independent and impartial advice has a key role to play make a huge difference and deliver a much more in helping pupils to make good choices. If the system sophisticated and responsive service. fails young people, a human and economic cost is There are some changes that the Committee welcomed. incurred, by both the young people and the wider We were pleased by the decision to expand the duty on society that risks squandering their talents. schools to offer careers guidance down to pupils in In their response to our report, the Government year 8, and up to 16 to 18-year-olds in school or college. complained that the Committee We think that was logical, and our Committee heard “focuses on the process of planning and providing careers guidance, strong evidence for doing it. It might seem an obvious whereas the Government’s priority is outcomes for young people.” thing to do, but the Government should none the less be With respect to Ministers, our so-called process points congratulated on doing it. That decision was taken were about ensuring that young people can access proper during the course of our inquiry. I know that Ministers careers advice, at a time when five in six schools are always—well, mostly—take note of the powerful arguments cutting back on it. That could help to prevent obvious coming from our Committee, which makes for a much mistakes. For example, our report highlights the lack of more coherent policy. It is a big win for young people, awareness in many schools regarding apprenticeships, particularly those about to leave the school system, and despite their being a flagship coalition policy. I congratulate Ministers. Ministers assume that schools will always do the best However, the Committee was disappointed that the thing for the children in their care but, in reality, schools Government rejected several of our other recommendations. will deliver what they are measured on. The system will We advised that each young person should be entitled not deliver when schools are not evaluated on the to at least one face-to-face careers interview with an quality of the careers guidance they provide, and when independent adviser, an opportunity that 98% of schools they are not given funding to supply it. In truth, the consider important. We also suggested that schools Committee is perhaps better focused on outcomes than should be required to publish an annual careers plan Ministers who made such a hash of the policy in the setting out information about the careers guidance provided DFE. to pupils and the resources allocated to it. Careers plans What is the point of all the education reforms the could form an important part of the new accountability Government have undertaken, if there is no decent regime for schools. At the moment, schools simply do signposting between education and the world of not see careers advice as a priority. Being obliged to employment? The honourable exception is the new National publish their plans would put them under pressure Careers Service, which needs proper funding if it is to to deliver in that area and not merely to focus on things expand its remit and do a good job for the young as well such as GCSEs, which tend to drive behaviour in secondary as the old. But if Ministers think that this is about schools. process, I assure them that it is not. It is about our Regrettably, neither of those recommendations has Committee, working on a cross-party basis, recognising been adopted. Like all organisations, schools are driven that careers services for young people are not up to the by the things on which they are evaluated, and they are job, and identifying what needs to change. not evaluated on careers advice—except during Ofsted’s rare visits—so it gets neglected by head teachers. 1.43 pm We welcome Ofsted’s ongoing thematic review of careers advice and guidance, which is due to report this Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): Mr Benton, I summer, but Ofsted’s routine inspection framework for recall that you chaired the very first Westminster Hall schools is simply not designed to make a clear judgment debate I ever took part in, when I first arrived here in 5WH Careers Guidance16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 6WH

2010 and had absolutely no idea what was going on. about what was going wrong, but provided an honest It is, therefore, a real pleasure to serve under your analysis of what we found, and offered positive chairmanship today, when I hope I know a bit more recommendations about how the current situation could about what is going on—we will see. It is also a pleasure be improved. We were particularly disappointed, therefore, to follow the Chair of the Education Committee, the by both the tone and content of the Government’s hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), response. and to welcome him back to Parliament and witness his The Government’s response tells us: speedy recovery. “While the Committee’s report does acknowledge the failings I want to talk today about the Committee’s report, of the Connexions service we are disappointed that the Committee and a little about the Government’s response. In taking describes our decision to transfer responsibility for careers to evidence from many of those involved in the education schools as regrettable.” of young people, the Committee visited careers services We found it regrettable not because of the transfer, or and schools, looking at what good practice was emerging, even because it happened against international evidence and identifying where deficiencies were most acute. that suggested it was the model that was least likely to Most importantly, perhaps, we also spoke to young succeed, but because responsibility was transferred with people themselves about the services they received. The all its limitations but without any funding. It was surely crux of our findings is wrapped up at the start of our bound to fail, and the failure would be regrettable. report: Instead of acknowledging that they might have got it “The Government’s decision to transfer responsibility for careers guidance to schools is regrettable.” wrong, and considering the Committee’s recommendations for improvement, the Government’s response appears We had a lot of discussion in the Committee about to focus on criticising how the inquiry was carried out, using “regrettable”. We could easily have used much stating that we cited evidence of one survey carried out stronger language, but we were looking for something by the careers sector that suggested a reduction in that would be helpful to the Government rather than service. I want to tell the Minister that we based our something that would be seen as lecturing. findings not just on one survey: we listened to a huge Secondly, we found that international evidence suggests amount of evidence from schools, local authorities, that a school-based model does not deliver the best careers specialists, employers, sixth-form college provision for young people, and we concluded that the representatives, further education colleges, teachers’ weakness of that model had been compounded by the representatives and head teachers’ representatives, and Government’s failure to transfer any budget to schools we listened to what young people told us about the with which to support the service. That led, predictably service they received. If that is not enough, I suggest to and perhaps inevitably, to a drop in overall provision, the Minister that he look at what is happening in with fewer than one in six schools providing anything schools now. Careers provision for schoolchildren has like a reasonable service. largely collapsed. In its inquiry, the Committee was very realistic about I was a member of the Education Bill Committee the historical performance of career services and more than two years ago, and we discussed at length Connexions, and did not see the previous service provided what was happening then. The then Minister, the right to young people as good or not in need of considerable hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings reform. It was clear to us that the Connexions service (Mr Hayes), at least acknowledged that there were had fallen well short of expectations in most areas, with problems, recognised what was happening and promised the probable exception of its services for vulnerable to look at the matter, but I understand that he was children, where I think that the level of provision and subsequently blocked from doing so by the Secretary of service was at least reasonable if not good. It was also State for Education. That is regrettable. If the Minister clear that the service delivered far from the high expectations is not convinced by our report, I suggest he talk to the that the Government had of it on its creation. people we talked to and come back and tell us that the system works well. However, the Government’s response has been not to reform the Connexions service but to abolish it altogether, The Government’s response also complained that the transferring the statutory duty to schools, and not Committee chose not to highlight examples of good providing any of the £196 million of funding that was practice. I disagree. We went to places such as Bradford, previously available for the service. That is leaving schools and looked at where local authorities and schools were and pupils high and dry, and it is clear that young working together, pooling resources and delivering a people will make less informed decisions and choices good service. It was clear, however, that even where about their future education and training as a result. there was good practice, they were doing it on very little That will have a major, negative and long-term impact funding, or by borrowing from Peter to pay Paul—taking on the lives of some young people, and it will be those money from other parts of the education service to who do not have access, within their families and family deliver the bones of a careers service for young people. circles, to well-informed professional advice who will be hardest hit and lose out the most. Mr Graham Stuart: Does the hon. Lady recall that in It is fair to say that we were dismayed by what we Bradford, where nearly all the schools signed up, money found, but we chose our wording carefully. We spent a was taken from each of them, but the bulk of it was still long time discussing what we wanted from the report. provided by the council? Adding all that up, if I recollect We wanted the Government to recognise that the current correctly, the service provision of careers guidance—in situation could not continue, and to take action to a place such as Bradford, where the council had made it improve it. We wanted to agree on language that did not a priority—was still lower on the ground in schools solely focus on the problems or lecture the Government than it had been. 7WH Careers Guidance16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 8WH

Pat Glass: I welcome that intervention. I absolutely need good-quality advice—about what they do next for agree that where we saw good practice, it still fell short courses and where they go next for jobs—that currently of what had previously been provided. I understand is simply not available. that the Government have had to make cuts, but that is happening across the country to a greater extent than in Bradford, where we saw what other authorities can only 1.53 pm aspire to. Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con): It is a pleasure The Government response criticised the Committee to participate in this debate under your chairmanship, for carrying out the inquiry when the new arrangements Mr Benton. I think that everyone agrees that top-down had been in place for only one term. They felt strongly careers guidance under the old Connexions-type service that greater consideration could have been given to did not work effectively. As we have heard, the damning allowing the new arrangements time to bed in before 2010 Ofsted report proved that point. The opportunity drawing such firm conclusions. The Government’s for the coalition Government was therefore immense. It arrangements may have been in place for only one term, was a good opportunity to have a hugely coherent but the funding has been withdrawn for almost three policy, while getting value for money for the taxpayer. years. We decided to look at the matter now rather than The verdict is still out on whether that has been achieved, later, because we had strong evidence that the system and we as a Committee look forward to revisiting the was collapsing around young people, who were making new policy to assess its effectiveness and value for less than informed decisions that will affect their whole money. lives. I want to highlight the issue of careers guidance I want briefly to consider what has since happened. becoming a postcode lottery for many students, particularly Heather Jackson and Professor Tony Watts have resigned young people from poorer and deprived backgrounds, from the National Careers Council, in which the because of the removal of a statutory duty on schools Government have such high hopes, as did we. The reasons to provide work-related learning. they cited for their resignations are concerns regarding the council’s recommendations to the Minister in early I have personal experience of growing up in a small May, and its failure to draw attention to the Education outback Australian town, based purely around the Committee’s report, with its strong recommendations production of steel, where aspiration among our peers, on steps to be taken to address the current crisis our parents and the educators tasked with inspiring us in schools, including the urgent need for enhanced was low, not because we all grew up in households that accountability and quality assurance. The inquiry was were not loving and caring—in fact, quite the opposite—but carried out at the right time: had we waited, we would because, in those days, our parents quite often did not now be taking evidence about an even greater crisis in understand what aspiration was beyond their lot. Top independent careers advice, not an improving situation. that with teachers who had never done anything apart from being in education, and it was almost a recipe for On the disappearing budget, the Government argued: most of us in our small country town to be destined “While there was no explicit transfer of resources, when we for much the same. made the decision to stop the Connexions service, by making savings on that and other centrally driven budgets we were able to Of course, 20 years on—okay, 40 years on—some prioritise and protect expenditure devolved to schools during this things are very different, and we live in a very different Spending Review period.” world. However, for young people from backgrounds I am sorry, but I say to the Minister that that is smoke where aspiration is low, in many cases because people and mirrors at best, and it insults the intelligence at know nothing different, it is vital that when they are worst. To transfer a major statutory duty to schools away from their family home they are given every without any funding, at the same time as local authority opportunity not only to aspire, but to understand aspiration budgets were being slashed and schools were having to and to have signposting to the steps that they need to pay for educational support services that they previously take to unlock a world that is enabling. received free, either from local or central Government, Many people need to play a role in that journey, not and to expect them to deliver a proper service from a least the family, but I am concerned about what happens frozen or shrinking budget is simply disingenuous. when, for whatever reason, parents cannot give that I have a number of questions that I wanted to put to support. As our Committee saw in Bradford, some the Minister, but I am conscious that if I go on much areas are pooling resources for a coherent policy for all longer, other people may not be able to speak. If I write schools that takes away the postcode lottery. What to him, will he be good enough to respond to those about schools and areas that do not do that? How do detailed questions? we ensure that each child has free access to support the unlocking of each step of their journey? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills I agree that schools have the second biggest role to (Matthew Hancock) indicated assent. play after the family, so their role is increased when that support is not available in families. We all remember Pat Glass: Finally, I remind the Minister that in an our inspirational teachers, but I bet we remember more educational system that is becoming increasingly diverse, those teachers we hated or who did not inspire us. When the need for good-quality, independent careers advice the Minister gave evidence to the Committee, he said has never been greater. If it is not available, it will not be that teachers come from a variety of backgrounds. Yes, the young people who have access to good family networks, they do, but not enough come from a different career whose parents work in the professions and who have background, so they have very little experience of what good contacts who will most lose out; it will be the the jobs market needs or offers as opportunities for young people who do not have those things, and who young people. 9WH Careers Guidance16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 10WH

The fact that almost 1 million young people in this Businesses suggests that it is eager to help and get country are NEETs—they are not in education, involved, but its offer has not been taken up nationally, employment or training—highlights just that point, as so we are missing out on a huge opportunity. does the fact that we herd our young people through university, often with no collaboration between them 2.1 pm and the economy or job opportunities. Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): It is a great pleasure Only last year, I wrote to several of my secondary to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Benton, and to head teachers in Calder Valley after attending their follow the hon. Member for Calder Valley (Craig A-level awards evenings, to say what an honour it was Whittaker), who talks of his steel roots. I represent a to attend. Although each celebrated the young people steel town, so I hope that a thread of steel runs through who were going to university, not one of them highlighted this debate, which started so well with the Chair of the apprenticeships or vocational achievements. That is an Select Committee elegantly setting out his stall. He ethos that I find sadly lacking in many of our schools, explained why the Committee described the transfer as and one that perhaps needs direction from Ofsted or, having been handled “regrettably” and the fact that the indeed, the Government. resources were not passed to schools along with the Only yesterday, the Committee heard how even the responsibility. I was pleased too to hear my hon. Friend Government have made a “dog’s breakfast”, to quote the Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) express the Chair, my hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and disappointment at the Government’s defensive reaction Holderness (Mr Stuart), of some of the programmes of to the report. study in the curriculum. The proposals seem to take no The Minister does not have to be defensive. He has account of what opportunities are available for young the opportunity today to respond to the concerns that people in the jobs market. I would highlight the proposed are expressed and stride forward rather than glance design and technology programme of study, which has backwards. Knowing the Minister as I do, I am sure little regard to the annual 5,000 shortage of engineers in that that is what he will do at the end of the debate. this country. The hon. Member for Calder Valley explained very When the banking crisis hit a few years ago, we well the need for careers guidance to be seen not only in discovered that Calder Valley has the third most vulnerable a national context but in a local one, too, and to be local economy in the UK, based on the potential failure matched to the needs of the local region and local area. of the financial system, because of Lloyds TSB’s base For the past year, I have been privileged to serve as chair there. Yet there has been a partnership between that of the Humber Skills Commission, on behalf of the bank and our local college on apprenticeships for only Humber local enterprise partnership, which has people two years, despite the bank’s reliance on more than from large and small businesses from across the region 6,000 employees from the area. Just now, as we speak, represented on its board. the local college is constructing courses to tie in with the When I took both written and oral evidence from area’s high-end manufacturing base. Although 20% of businesses across the Humber, I heard what they were people in Calder Valley work in manufacturing, only saying about the challenges in skills that face them. To now is there a manufacturing-specific vocational course. my surprise, career education and guidance came out as Why does it take an MP to drive those things? They a strong concern; indeed, it is one of the prime areas in should have happened many years ago. our report, which we are finalising at the moment. My first job as MP was to open a technology centre Let me pause to pick out the points that the commission in one of my local high schools. It was a £2.2 million highlighted. Interestingly, those points, which come from centre for construction, catering, computer-aided design, a regional perspective, accord with what the Select hair and beauty. Not one local business was asked to get Committee has found nationally. First, it was noted that involved in the design of the building, and only last year information, advice and guidance is frequently not impartial did we see a local business taking over the hairdressing or focused enough. Secondly, many young people do course. That was another huge opportunity missed, not know about the roles that are available; they are just sadly letting down our young people. not aware of the jobs and roles that are available either I understand that the Government have removed the locally or nationally. As the Chair of the Select Committee statutory duty around work-related learning to enable said, there is a mismatch between what they might be schools themselves to decide on what is the best vehicle interested in and what jobs are there. Thirdly, it was said for young people, but as I have highlighted, we have a that we need more employers involved in mentoring and huge way to go to change the experience and the ethos coaching, but we need an infrastructure to make that of our educators to deliver such a huge aspiration. happen. If the money has been taken away and the Sadly, we have missed a huge opportunity to encourage responsibility transferred, how does that happen? business to play a much bigger role. The countries Fourthly, the commission noted that labour market around the world that do exceedingly well in this area information in insufficient and restricted—a key point show that a partnership between education, business made by the Chair of the Select Committee at the start and family contributes not only to producing high of the debate. Career opportunities need to be sold to aspirations among their young people but towards their young people, so a process is needed by which their eyes economies as well. are opened. The hon. Member for Calder Valley talked I support our Committee’s recommendations that about inspirational teachers, but we could have inspirational guidance to schools must be strengthened to require careers advisers, too. them to provide work-related learning as part of their The commission also said that parents need to duty. I also believe that the Government must do much understand the opportunities that are available for their more to encourage business to play a bigger role in that children. It is important that they have access to advice process. A recent briefing from the Federation of Small and guidance as well. There is a lack of information 11WH Careers Guidance16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 12WH

[Nic Dakin] I hope that this debate today gives the Government an opportunity to step up to the plate for the young people with regard to opportunities in the offshore wind industry of this country and put in the resource to allow proper, and the supply chain. Given that there is a big opportunity impartial careers education and guidance to be given to in such an industry, it was quite a stark moment to every young person in the land, so that they can achieve realise how little was known about it within the educational their potential. system, which needs to be preparing people for the jobs of today and tomorrow and not the jobs of yesterday. Mr Joe Benton (in the Chair): Order. Before I call the Mr Graham Stuart: Does the hon. Gentleman agree next speaker, I point out that I hope to start the wind-ups that the National Careers Service’s initiative offers a at 2.40 pm by the latest. I ask Members to keep that in huge opportunity? It is embryonic at the moment, but it mind. is building for adults that kind of local labour market knowledge. Having started to gather that information, why on earth would we not want to leverage that for 2.10 pm young people as well? Furthermore, does he agree that Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): It is a great pleasure if the Government found from the Department for to participate in this debate under your chairmanship, Education not necessarily the kind of money that they Mr Benton. As all the previous speakers have said, it is were spending on Connexions but a fraction of that and a very important debate. put additional resource into the NCS, they could build on a coalition and the successful policy of the NCS and It is also great to see our leader, the Chairman of the turn all careers advice for young people in the right Education Committee, my hon. Friend the Member direction. for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), back again. Obviously, all of us wish him all the best for a swift Nic Dakin: The Chair of the Select Committee is recovery. prescient, because the last thing the Humber commission It is good to see the hon. Member for Scunthorpe found was a mismatch between the standard of support (Nic Dakin) gracing the education world once more. We for young people and adults, with adults generally remain a happy if not always entirely united Committee, getting a better service. The Chairman is absolutely which is good for democracy. This morning, I was busy right and he lays down the challenge to the Minister, telling a conference just what the role of a Select Committee but the Minister can be inventive. We have heard one is. There seemed to be some confusion, with people way forward. Another way would be to provide the thinking that we are just another adjunct of the resources to local enterprise partnerships. The matter Government, but if they came along here they would could then be taken forward through city deals to allow notice that members of Select Committees do not just the LEPs to innovate. The Chairman gives a good way simply salute the Government, which is another good forward, but there are other ways, and I am sure the aspect of Parliament that we should reflect on and be Minister will be up for taking on board those interesting pleased about. ideas. As the Chairman of the Committee mentioned, at Let me draw attention to the concerns of the Association our last meeting we talked about destinations, and the of Colleges—this is coming from my background as a Secretary of State mentioned that he was sorry that he college principal. There is concern at the moment about had not covered that issue properly in the accountability the perverse incentives in the current system, which world. It is a critical issue and I want to say why it is so allow new schools to be established even where there is important that we know about destinations, and why an over-supply of places. When that happens, we create that has an impact on schools in terms of careers. a competitive environment in which schools are trying Obviously, if a school is to be measured by the destinations to maintain their pupil numbers through compulsory of its pupils in the future, it will show a great interest in education and up to 18 years old. That militates against finding the best destinations for its pupils and encouraging the provision of truly independent information, advice them towards those destinations. We need to bear that and guidance because such advice might, for example, in mind as a stimulus for schools, particularly secondary recommend that a young person remains in the school schools. In other words, if a school is identified as good because that benefits the school but not necessarily the because of its record in getting pupils into good jobs or young person. Independence of advice is crucial; otherwise good pathways to further their careers and so on, it will we get the outcomes that have already been described in establish the mechanisms that will help it to do that. We this debate that are not in the interests of either young should work really hard to ensure that we have a destination people or UK plc because we are wasting talent. measurement system in place. Let me close by quoting the words of Vince Barrett, I say that because whenever I ask companies in my the immediate past president of the Association of constituency what we can do to help, there are usually Careers, Education and Guidance who lives in the three things. First, there are regulations; they are talked Humber area. He has spent his whole life in careers about by people in just about every organisation. Then, education and guidance, working with young people. of course, there is criticism of high street banks, because He said: they do not lend. But the commonest question is, “Where “Removing the statutory duty for secondary schools to provide do we recruit from? Where are the skills?” We must start careers education and replacing it with a new duty to provide only working out how we match the demand for skills with careers guidance has resulted in young people having to make decisions about their future without fully understanding the the output of our education system. Doing that is range of opportunities that may be open to them. It’s a bit like critical, especially when we are attempting to rebalance being told to choose a pair of shoes without trying them on and the economy, because while we are doing it we are hoping they’ll be a perfect fit.” effectively recalibrating the kind of skills we need. Therefore, 13WH Careers Guidance16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 14WH we must ensure that people understand where the best example constructing electric cars, and various projects opportunities are, both for themselves and for our involving batteries, computers and so forth. Children economy. Business and education need to engage properly. come into businesses and find out what it is like to see a I have been having conversations with people from business, and business people go into schools and see the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, what the situation is there. We had the festival last for example, and they make that point forcefully, because year; it was incredibly successful and that is why we are they are aware that there is a bit of a void between many doing it again this year. schools and businesses. What do we have to do to We want to see more such initiatives; it is all very well improve the situation? First, we must send a signal sitting around and saying, “This is what we need to do”, that now that schools have the responsibility for but we have to get on and do it. My festival is a good careers guidance, which they will have for some time example. It is not something that everyone would necessarily notwithstanding the discussion that we have already want to copy, but people may want to consider the had today about resources, we must make sure that messages that it sends out and the mechanisms that it schools are actually going out to engage with businesses. uses. Governing bodies will have a role, and head teachers It is absolutely right that we get businesses into have to accept that it is part of their responsibility. It is schools. The motivator could well be the destination absolutely right that Ofsted should consider how schools measurements, and it is really important that teachers deal with those challenges, and measure the performance learn more about the place of work. That is something of schools and comment on it as part of the inspection else that the Chartered Institute of Personnel and package. Development talked to me about, and I intend to expand Of course, business has to engage with schools as that dialogue to see exactly what else we can learn about well; there must be two-way traffic. Businesses must the way forward. communicate with schools, because it is no use their sitting on the sidelines and saying they wish that this or I finish by discussing economic competitiveness, because that would happen; they must ensure that they influence as a country we have to be more competitive and make the schools. Academies, of course, are more autonomous, more use of the European Union. I do not want to go so they should be more responsive and more open to through the arguments that we had in the House yesterday, contributions from the business world, and certainly but in my contribution to the economic growth debate, I from local businesses. made a point about the role of the Mittelstand type of companies in Germany. They have linkages with their That is an issue we must focus on and the hon. local community, knowledge of and involvement in Member for Scunthorpe— local schools, capacity to plan ahead and an interest in ensuring that they get the right supply of skills into Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): I their firms, as needed, largely on the basis of knowing was enjoying what the hon. Gentleman said, up to that what their requirements are and having the contacts to point, but will he talk about resource? I still visit many ensure that they can be fulfilled. We need to arrive at schools and they would love to do the things that he has such a situation. It requires not resources and bureaucracy just been articulating, but schools are busy and strapped but a change of culture, in which schools and businesses for cash and resources. When I chaired the Education start working together to ensure that we have the right Committee, the two things that we said a school needed skill sets and the right environment for pupils and were a person trained to be a careers adviser—it does students to choose careers that suit them and contribute not come from Buggins—and the resource to get out of to the rebalancing of our economy and produce more the classroom to meet businesses. Does he not agree economic growth. that resources are crucial?

Neil Carmichael: I will just finish my response to the 2.20 pm point that the hon. Member for Scunthorpe made. He quite rightly said that local enterprise partnerships should Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): Mr Benton, play a role. They should, and we need to see an enhanced it is a privilege to serve under your chairmanship in this role for them. That would be a useful tool to encourage important debate. I, too, welcome our Chair, the hon. dialogue. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), back As for resources, of course everybody accepts that we to his role in the House. do not have a bottomless pit. Having more resources I have no doubt about the importance to our country would be better, but we must work within the framework of a well-functioning and fit-for-purpose careers service we have. Businesses should engage with schools from for young people, although the transfer of responsibility self-interest, and we need to make that point more. I to individual schools has resulted in mixed provision. I tried to provide some context by pointing out that, in intend to concentrate on resources, quality and the need some cases, businesses are concerned about where they for a professional service. are going to recruit. During the evidence sessions on the Government’s In my constituency, I have a festival of engineering reforms to the service, the Education Committee heard and manufacturing. I do so for two reasons. First, one from many expert witnesses that the service was going in every five jobs in my constituency is connected with downhill. There seemed to be little disagreement among engineering and manufacturing; it is a big proportion, them that the service has suffered since the changes which shows we have critical mass. Secondly, I am took effect; things are going in the wrong direction and aware that there ought to be more dialogue between youngsters are the ones losing out. The subsequent medium-sized firms and schools, so I provide a platform report outlined compelling evidence that the service has for that dialogue to happen. We organise events, for begun to, and is likely to, continue degrading. 15WH Careers Guidance16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 16WH

[Alex Cunningham] “far too many young people are having to make vital and incredibly important decisions about their futures without enough access to In written and oral evidence, we found ongoing concerns good information.” about the quality, independence, impartiality and availability That is a worrying observation. The Government seem of careers guidance. We also heard numerous concerns to have taken what is widely considered to have been an about an emerging postcode lottery of provision, with imperfect system and put an inferior one in its place. I some schools and local authorities making a success of am pleased that our Education Committee did not hold the reforms and others sometimes lacking the resources, back in its criticism. In view of that, I find the Government’s expertise and perhaps even the will to do the same. One response to our report puzzling. It is one thing for an thing that stood out was the observation that effective Opposition party’s criticism to elicit a complacent response, guidance services will only support the complexity of but quite another for a Committee chaired by a Conservative needs if they are appropriately resourced and structured MP, with a majority of Government MPs, to provoke to do so. Although the Committee raised concerns, the such a tepid, lethargic reaction. Government have so far failed to address major funding As a former chair of the Connexions service in the issues in the careers service or the crisis facing the Tees valley, I know that Connexions was not perfect provision of careers advice in schools. and that performance was better in some areas than The funding provided for the careers guidance others, with provision often concentrated on those with element of the former Connexions service totalled some the greatest needs at the expense of the general school £196 million, as the Committee Chair and other hon. population, but at least we had professionals with Members outlined. Responsibility for providing careers knowledge engaged with our young people. Their numbers guidance was transferred to schools as part of the have been devastated and now they are simply not Education Act 2011, but as has already been said, none available in most schools. The Government’s response of that funding was transferred with it. In consolation, to our report seems to contain little appreciation of the if it is any consolation at all, the Department for negative impact the reforms have had on young people Education funds the National Careers Service, for services seeking to enter the labour market. Some of those who for young people, to the tune of a paltry £7 million for a took part in our inquiry must wonder why they bothered, helpline, which we found that many young people do when it appears to have made so little difference as far not even appear to know exists. I should like to know as the Government are concerned. where all the cash has gone. We are told that we should offer an opportunity for The staff need to be in possession of the requisite the changes based on school-based provision to “bed in skills and knowledge to meet the needs of our young and evolve”, but the changes have been in place for long people. I remember my careers chat with Mr Harding, enough to see which way the wind is blowing. If the the deputy head teacher of Branksome School in early signs are ominous, instead of allowing a pattern of Darlington, when I was 15. I thought I should like to be failure and service degradation to set in, the Education an engineer or maybe something else. “Okay”, he said. Secretary and the Minister should see what steps they “Five O-levels, including maths and English for you”, can take easily to arrest the decline. For example, the and I was out the door. There was no real discussion, no Select Committee report suggested that all schools should exploration of my skills and no help. Perhaps if he had publish and review their careers plan each year, but we considered how incompetent I was with a piece of wood are told that this would represent or metal, he might have been able to say, “Engineering “the kind of bureaucracy that we have tried so hard to remove.” is not for you, but you’re not so bad at English, you know. Maybe you should think about something along Quite aside from the staggering amount of bureaucracy those lines.” The fact that I ended up as a journalist and that the Education Secretary’s top-down reorganisation politician probably speaks for itself. of English schools has brought to bear across the system, I do not think that asking schools to report on Sadly, many young people today face the same level the kind of service they are providing represents bureaucracy of support that I had, and it is simply not good enough. that is worth removing. Some may be doing all right, but the evidence suggests that most certainly are not. My trade union, Unison, Although I have a different vision of education and which has seen the number of members working in the schools policy from the Secretary of State, I share with careers service collapse, is worried for our young people him a desire to see the reforms work, now that they are and reminds us: in place. The Education Committee provided a simple way of improving the system. It is mystifying why the “The absence of regulatory rigour and safeguards within the Government would try to remove any ability for parents, new legislation and the cuts the service has faced have led to a representatives and the public to know what kind of postcode lottery on the type and level of careers advice available.” provision is in place. I urge the Minister to reconsider I ask the Minister to consider doing more to promote that decision or, at the very least, to lay out in far consistency in the offer to young people, through a greater detail why it was taken. greater degree of central guidance to assist schools to Not everybody agrees with me, but I urge a greater adopt a consistent approach. That might arrest the slide role for local authorities in the new system. It is logical into a full-blown postcode lottery that we are witnessing. that those institutions play a co-ordinating role to facilitate I hope that the Minister will at least agree that our a flow of information about best practice, new ideas children deserve better than a postcode lottery. and resources. Bradford is one of the better examples. As the quality of service slips, so too does the range The Government should actively promote the schools of knowledge about potential career paths available to and local authorities that do well, although I acknowledge, children. As the director of the Education and Employers as have other hon. Members, that local authority resources Taskforce says, are much squeezed these days, particularly in the north. 17WH Careers Guidance16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 18WH

Research published in July 2011 revealed that of in London. I went to schools, colleges and universities. I 144 local authorities only 15 would maintain what the spoke to people outside the school, college and university researchers termed a “substantial service”. In six London systems, and I spoke to parents, teachers and so on. boroughs, all the Connexions careers service offices I presented my report in July 2011. have been closed. In Hull, the number of careers advisers I think that this is the first time I have quoted myself has been reduced from 81 to 18. In other authorities in a debate, for which I apologise, but I was told some careers staff have been merged into generic youth work. very clear things. I was told almost universally by the The Government’s attempts to simplify the system have young people I met that the careers advice, information led to confusion about the correct roles for members of and guidance that they received was not up to standard. staff, and resultant confusion about who is responsible Across all those places—from the most remote, rural for what. That is why the Government’s response is so communities to the most urban, deprived communities disappointing. It is said that the Government want to and the most affluent, home counties communities—people wait and see what Ofsted says in the summer, once its said, “We are not getting the careers service we need.” I review of careers guidance surfaces, but the Committee was therefore fairly robust in my recommendations to consulted Ofsted and found that the current inspection the Government. The document is available for people framework was to look at, and I think it is still on the Department for “not a credible accountability check on the provision of careers Business, Innovation and Skills or Cabinet Office website. guidance by individual schools.” Recommendation 3 states: A good quality, well-resourced careers service is one “At the age of 13 and 14 (in English schools year nine), every of the few levers that the Government have at their student should have made available to them information on all disposal to do something about youth unemployment. future pathways through education to employment, including In my Stockton North constituency, youth unemployment clear information about which types of careers different educational stands at more than 1,000, and nationally it is around 1 choices can lead to.” million. If the Education Department is serious about That point is then amplified. ensuring that young people have a chance when they leave school, it needs to ensure that the careers system is Recommendation 4 states: up to scratch. The Committee realised that, the Labour “The government should act urgently to guarantee face to face party realises it, and campaign groups recognise it, but careers advice for all young people in schools. Government should it appears to have passed the Government by. As my also guarantee careers information, advice and guidance up to 17 and then 18 in line with the increase in the compulsory hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) schooling age.” said, the response to our report may be disappointing, but we now have a new Minister who will, I hope, chuck Recommendation 5 states: the earlier response in the bin and respond by taking the “The government should urgently publish a plan of how it actions that employers, educationalists and, most important, intends to maintain the expertise of current careers professionals our young people need him to take for their future. between the closures of local authority careers services…and the beginning of the all age-careers service”. Lastly, recommendation 6 states: 2.29 pm “All schools should have events for parents and carers dedicated Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) to careers and further and higher education”. (LD): I am very happy to serve under your chairmanship, That recommendation would bring people together, Mr Benton, and I am also very happy that the Chairman and it makes the point that parents and carers often of the Education Committee, the hon. Member for also need to be educated in the world of careers, because, Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), is back. Like as the hon. Member for Calder Valley (Craig Whittaker) others, I wish him well for a complete recovery. said, parents naturally come with their own prejudices I thank the Education Committee for its report. I am and historical recollections, and they do not always not on the Committee, as colleagues know, but I pay understand either that the world has changed or that tribute to all its members of all three parties, including the technology and processes of getting a job have my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward), changed, as they certainly have. It is better that people who cannot be with us today.I am glad that the Committee have their parents, family, peer group, brothers and wasabletogotoBradford. sisters on board with them in the process, rather than I have been a Member of Parliament for quite a leaving them behind thinking that they cannot benefit while, and I came here with several clear views about the from the process. careers service. First, the careers service was patchy— A couple of things have since happened. In October Connexions had mixed success in different parts of the 2012, my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Gordon country. Secondly, the careers service was clearly not Birtwistle) introduced a private Member’s Bill on careers doing enough in my south London constituency to give advice in schools. The Select Committee published its young people the advice, information and guidance that first report and then its robust second report. they needed to be able best to maximise opportunities. I will concentrate on the issue that most exercised me Thirdly, that was probably the case across the country, and colleagues in both Houses during the passage of too. the Education Act 2011, on which we had to fight like After the debates on higher education tuition fees, fury to get the Government to agree that schools should the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister asked have any duty to provide a face-to-face careers service me to do a bit of work in the first six months of 2011 to to anyone. Eventually, mainly as a result of pressure in consider access to further and higher education in England. the Lords, concessions were made so that children on I went to Merseyside, the west and east midlands, free school meals or with special needs would be guaranteed Cornwall, Hampshire and Kent, and I talked to people face-to-face careers advice, but the rest would not. 19WH Careers Guidance16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 20WH

[Simon Hughes] technically able, they are unconfident when navigating such choices. However able they are, they need face-to-face The Select Committee has clearly recommended that support to work through what are very difficult questions there should be at least one opportunity for face-to-face for any of us. careers advice. I will pause for a second, because the Government and particularly the Secretary of State for Simon Hughes: I absolutely agree, and I respect the Education—this relates to the Department for Education, hon. Gentleman’s expertise on the matter. not the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills— I have two final points. First, if someone wants to go has resisted and held out against that recommendation, into the construction industry to be a plumber or and he is wrong. That is not helpful. builder, actually knowing the best way to go from their First—again, this point was made by the hon. Member secondary school to get the relevant qualification, knowing for Calder Valley—careers advice does not mean only which college is the best place to do an FE course and trying to big up opportunities for further or higher knowing which company might give them the best education, particularly the latter; it also means considering learning is not something that they will necessarily pick alternatives such as apprenticeships or training and up accurately just because their uncle happens to work ensuring that young people understand that the route for a building firm or their elder brother happens to be through life might start by going off into work from self-employed and has his own firm. It does not happen school and then back into training or apprenticeships. like that. People need to have wider experience. It may later go into further or higher education qualifications, or it may go different ways. I have family This point may be controversial, but I am clear about members who have done just that. They have effectively it. We are having a big debate in this country on gone from school into the services and then into work. immigration. It is abundantly clear to me that people My younger brother then went to university and had a from outside this country are often employed because very successful academic and professional career. Other they are better qualified. When there is competition, as people do the same. We must ensure that schools big up in Lincolnshire or elsewhere, between a Lithuanian or destinations other than just higher and further education Polish immigrant and someone from Boston, for example, qualifications. Apprenticeships and training should be offering their skills, we are failing all those young people equally valid as places to go. who lose out because they are just not as competent or qualified—they have not got to the same place as the Secondly, people need to think laterally these days. immigrant. If we are to show that we are providing the Someone sitting in the county I was born in, Cheshire, opportunities for our young people to get the jobs in or the county we moved to, Herefordshire, or the this country and abroad that we want them to have, we constituency I represent in south London has a must give them the careers advice to set them on the predetermined view of things, depending on their route to do that. circumstances, their location and the local industries and occupations. It is not sufficient to be told how to We cannot complain when we discover that, at the write a CV and to think that sending it, possibly by end of the day, they lose out because they have been e-mail, will mean that it will be looked at, picked up and unsupported. I am dealing with constituents who are the writer’s brilliance will be discovered. now in their 20s and 30s, and I can testify to the fact that if people do not get the right support, it is doubly The important point therefore is that the process of difficult for them when they are 21, 25, 29, 32 and 35 to self-presentation and maintaining up-to-date information get into the jobs market. If they did not have the requires personal contact. It is not enough to think that support and encouragement to be at work when they going onto the web or phoning someone will give were 16, 17, 18 and 21, it is really difficult later, and we people the support, confidence, mentoring and back-up set back a generation. So I ask the Minister, who is a that they need. I am not talking about children with new Minister and as far as I know a good thing, to parents who have no academic qualifications; children persuade his boss in the Department for Education to with two teacher parents, for example, may also need rethink, to drop the ideology and the right-wing philosophy someone who is not their parent to help them in their and to pick up on the evidence and support careers route of deciding what to do. guidance for everyone in every single school in England. My plea is that the Government reconsider their view that there should not be face-to-face careers advice, information and guidance for everyone. The Select 2.41 pm Committee recommends that that should happen once, Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): It but as much advice as is needed should be given. I am is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, certain that it would make a significant difference if there Mr Benton. were well qualified experts to support young people as they navigate this and sometimes to help them as they What brings us together in the Chamber today is a fall back and realise—the hon. Member for Beverley collective sense that we could probably have had better and Holderness gave such an example in his introduction— careers advice ourselves, and that we care passionately that a career in the fire service, police service or armed about young people’s careers advice in the future. That services, or whatever it might be, may not be an option is why the Labour party welcomes the Select Committee because they are not recruiting but shedding people. report and, in particular, the devastating third paragraph Sometimes, people have to confront reality and think of the summary, which announced that the “decision to again. transfer responsibility” was “regrettable”, going on to state that the Committee had Nic Dakin: The right hon. Gentleman is spelling out “concerns about the consistency, quality, independence and his case very well. From a lifetime of working with impartiality of careers guidance now being offered to young young people, I know that, although they might be people.” 21WH Careers Guidance16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 22WH

Labour acknowledges that careers guidance for young and impartial system of advice. The problem is an people was in need of reform, which is why the previous element of over-concentration by the Government on Labour Government were committed to a review of the the 16.4% of state school pupils who achieved EBacc IAG—information, advice and guidance—strategy in results. We all want as much academic achievement as 2011, following our response to Alan Milburn’s report. possible in our schools; we all want that excellence and The Committee has produced a typically thoughtful rigour, but we also need to be aware of different learning and comprehensive contribution to an important issue. and career pathways. That is the difficult situation that Transferring the statutory duty for careers guidance to the Minister faces. His colleagues do not seem to share schools is a radical and untested departure in the history his concern for rigorous vocational training. of careers guidance in the United Kingdom, deserving Unfortunately, the sloppy approach to evidence appears of close scrutiny. Furthermore, the report arrives at a to have seeped into the reforms as well. The international moment of crisis. That young people in this country are evidence for the statutory transfer of the careers service more likely than the elderly to be unemployed is a to schools is, at best, thin on the ground. The Select shocking situation and the exact opposite of what is Committee is clear about that, and it cites the OECD, happening in, for example, Germany.Youthunemployment which has highlighted the limitations of the school-based in this country remains around 1 million, so this is model—“lack of impartiality, inconsistency”and, perhaps exactly not the time to undermine effective careers most damaging, “weak links”with the labour market—also advice. The Labour party, however, will try to approach emphasised by hon. Members. Labour is not dogmatic the debate in a bipartisan spirit. Young people are not on the location of the statutory duty. Quality of delivery well served by tit-for-tat exchanges or by apportioning is what counts, not who holds the responsibility. We blame. The truth is that youth unemployment and social agree with the Committee’s findings that further upheaval mobility are deep-seated challenges. We look to work and uncertainty, after everything schools have been with the Select Committee and the Government where through, might have a detrimental impact upon young possible. people at a difficult time. The previous Labour Government stated: In the current fiscal climate, we also agree with the “High-quality information, advice and guidance is crucial in Committee that additional direct funding to schools is helping young people to develop ambitious but achievable plans, unlikely. Schools need to make careers guidance a priority which are more likely to lead to positive outcomes.” within their budgets. The Chair of the Select Committee’s That has also been recognised by a wide range of figures about five in six not providing the same level of professional bodies, from the CBI to the Chartered allocation are terrifying. As the deputy Chair of the Institute of Personnel and Development. It is pleasing Select Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for that the Government recognise the Committee’s findings North West Durham (Pat Glass), pointed out in her that good-quality, independent careers guidance is speech, that does not mean that the Government should “essential” for all young people. However, we believe present the withdrawal of £200 million of funding as that the Government could be doing more to drive consequence free. In his evidence, the Minister suggested aspiration, boost our competitiveness and stop exactly that the Government have protected school spending, the kind of waste pointed out by the Chair of the Select but schools are having to invest about £25,000 each for Committee, when he mentioned the young man seeking something that was previously allocated funding, and to forge a career in the fire brigade. we can see from the report that levels of provision have simply fallen off a cliff. We are pleased that the Minister has belatedly persuaded his colleagues of the importance of a technical All that comes at a difficult time. Teaching morale is baccalaureate, although it remains disappointing that, at an all-time low and, for better or worse, the change unlike Labour policy, which it attempts to imitate, it comes when our education system faces enormous structural does not include a commitment to a proper work experience upheaval and fragmentation. The Government are asking placement or a course structure developed by business. schools to take on a commissioning role, but if we have One of the strongest criticisms made by the Committee learnt nothing else over the past 30 years of public report is the removal of a statutory duty to provide policy, it is that commissioning services is not easy and careers education and work-related learning. In the requires a complex set of skills and capabilities. public consultation on the Wolf report, nearly 89% of Extraordinary demands are being placed on our schools, respondents did not believe that the statutory duty and the simple question that the Minister must answer should be removed. With employers routinely complaining is whether his Government are doing enough to provide —as the hon. Member for Calder Valley (Craig Whittaker) guidance and support and to disseminate best practice. explained—about the lack of workplace knowledge and The Committee report seems clear that the answer is no. poor employability of young people, the Government In the words of Professor Tony Watts of Careers England, must consider whether scrapping work experience is a it is good idea. It would not be so bad if different routes to “not delegation to schools; it is abdication.” employability, vocational education and apprenticeships We need careers services with strong links to employers, were well advertised by the careers services under the good local labour market intelligence, impartial advice new regime, but, as both Government and Opposition on different routes and a robust system of accountability. Members have explained, that is simply not the case. We should not stifle innovation with over-prescription I strongly urge the Government, therefore, to respond and bureaucracy, but we must not abdicate responsibility with greater clarity than they did to the Select Committee to provide clear and rigorous standards to drive report on how they will ensure that young people are performance. Like the Chair of the Committee, what made aware of the full range of post-16 options available most concerns me about the report is the accountability in their local area, as my hon. Friends have discussed, dimension. The report merely reveals the widespread including apprenticeships. Pupils need an independent sector concern, echoed by the Government’s social mobility 23WH Careers Guidance16 MAY 2013 Careers Guidance 24WH

[Tristram Hunt] There is also agreement that Connexions failed badly, and that was mentioned throughout the Chamber, but adviser, that the accountability measures for the new that must be matched with recognition that if the activity regime are nowhere near robust enough. There is now that occurred under Connexions, which was poor value near unanimous support for an enhanced role for Ofsted, for money, has reduced, it is not the same as the amount and I am pleased to note that Sir Michael Wilshaw told of careers advice falling. The two are separate, and the the Committee that there is a need to reason for the cross-party, cross-sector agreement that “recalibrate the schools framework to focus more on careers Connexions failed is that it was poor value for money. advice.” We have Ofsted’s thematic review in the summer and the Alex Cunningham: I am interested in professional National Careers Council report this month, but I help. We have seen the number of professionals in the remain concerned that they will not result in delivering career service collapse throughout the country. Does the robust accountability that we need. that not worry the Minister when he talks about the I started by saying that I would approach the debate agenda for informing young people properly? in a non-partisan way, and I am pleased to put on record our support for the Government’s extension of Matthew Hancock: I will come to that. The question the statutory duty to year 8s and to 16 to 18-year-olds is what we can do to provide information, advice, guidance in college. There is a case for going further. and, much more broadly, motivation and inspiration. I welcome the Minister’s enthusiasm for increasing Times have changed since the Connexions service was employer participation in schools and the commitment opened up. Information is widely available, but it is to develop destination measures further, although I obvious that information on the web is not enough; it is note the Education Secretary’s failings on that. Finally, about the individual connection between human beings, I note the Committee’s interesting recommendations on with young people being inspired, usually by a practitioner the potential for a brokerage role for the National who is doing something with their life. Young people Careers Service, which has rightly been criticised for not look at them and say, “That’s the sort of thing I want to doing enough for young people. The Labour party will do.” Then the question is how to ensure that they are look at that recommendation as part of its ongoing steered into the path of being able to do it. policy review, and the One Nation Skills Taskforce, Aspiration must be encouraged, but realistically. There chaired by Professor Chris Husband, which we should was a time when I wanted to be an astronaut, and I am implement in about two years. glad I was told that for someone who is British the chances of becoming an astronaut are close to zero, so I 2.50 pm ended up in my second choice. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Matthew Hancock): It is a pleasure, Mr Benton, to (Elizabeth Truss): My hon. Friend should have tried serve under your chairmanship. I will try to respond to harder. all the points that have been raised, but if there is not enough time to respond to specific points, I will be happy to do so in detail in correspondence, as with the Matthew Hancock: My hon. Friend says I should Committee’s deputy Chair. have tried harder, but it is about balance. We must be aspirational, but realistic and helpful. I value the cross-party approach to the debate and the Opposition Front-Bench Member’s largely non-partisan The funding issue has been raised many times. Times approach. I invite him to the Department to give him a are, of course, tight for funding, but the central point is teach-in on some of the things we are doing on work that the legal duty to secure independent and impartial experience because I agree that it is vital, and we are advice in schools needs to be delivered from the school doing a huge amount to strengthen it. What matters is budget. Schools have a whole budget to deliver this, not real work experience, not pretend work experience. The just the £7 million that the Department for Education change is important and I am sure he will agree when he put into the National Careers Service. Frankly, we must understands what is happening. I welcome him to his be much more ambitious and look forward not back. I first Westminster Hall debate on the Front Bench. have taken up the mantle that was laid down. We understand what happened. There has been a big change During the debate, I noted a huge number of areas of and the question now is how that statutory duty can be agreement, not least on the value and importance of properly enforced and put in place as powerfully and information, advice and guidance, but also motivation, effectively as possible. inspiration and education in a world that young people can reach through their education and their choices of Of course, autonomy and accountability matter. People qualification. Several times, the motivating fact in my say that schools will not do this, but I also heard the job was brought up. Youth unemployment is falling and evidence that 98% of schools say that it is very important. this week, thankfully, the figures showed a further fall, We must hold schools to account so that they deliver, but it is far, far too high. At the same time we have a and that can be done through Ofsted. Michael Wilshaw skills shortage. To fill that skills shortage, we must make of Ofsted says that from September it will give priority sure that the young people of this country have not only to inspection of career advice, and the destination data the training and qualifications, but the skills to get a job that we are working extremely hard to expand. and hold it down. That is the motivation behind the massive increase in apprenticeships and the introduction Pat Glass: In schools, what gets measured gets done, of traineeships, which will start in the summer. There is so how will we ensure that careers advice is policed and agreement about the value and importance of that. happens for all children, not just some? 25WH Careers Guidance 16 MAY 2013 26WH

Matthew Hancock: The new destination data that Educating Engineers were introduced this summer included for the first time measurement of people who go to university and also those who go into apprenticeships and other jobs. We must expand that. Last year was the first year, and there [Mr CHARLES WALKER in the Chair] will be more years with a richer dataset in future. We [Relevant documents: The impact of Government reforms must hold schools to account for that. As the hon. Lady on 14-19 education, Seventh Report of the Science and says, what gets measured gets done, so we must measure Technology Committee, Session 2012-13, HC 665, and destinations and outcomes—where children actually the Government response, HC 102.] get to. There is best practice. The careers academies provide 3pm inspirational best practice, including information and advice, as well as mentoring from people who work in Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): It industry. They go with pupils from a young age all the is the first time I have served under your chairmanship, way through university or an apprenticeship and into Mr Walker, so I welcome the opportunity to do so by work, and continue to mentor over a long period. Other addressing the Chamber on the Select Committee on examples of where things are working well include Science and Technology’s report, “Educating tomorrow’s Business in the Community, Business Class and Speakers engineers: the impact of Government reforms on for Schools. As the hon. Member for Stockton North 14–19 education”. The Committee produced the report (Alex Cunningham) said, there is some excellent provision. unanimously back in February. We dealt with the impacts of the English baccalaureate, university technical colleges The need for closer collaboration between employers and changes to the engineering diploma. I will also and schools is vital to tackle the motivating factor. comment on the Government’s response to our report, Someone reported an offer of support from the Federation and as we are in education mode, I will be generous and of Small Businesses, and I hope that the FSB will offer the Minister seven out of 10 for that response. It is contact me because I would very much like to take a good score—I never got those sorts of marks in my forward its offer. The issue is about ensuring that all classes. children have access to the sort of networks that middle-class children often take for granted. Most jobs are filled not Engineering is crucial to the economy. It has been through advertising, but through networks, and it is estimated that the engineering work force produces a vital to make sure that everyone has the same access to fifth of our GDP and half of UK exports. In 2010, the the networks that the middle classes often take for sector generated 25% of UK turnover—that is three granted. times the size of the financial services sector. It is not just the economy that benefits from engineering; we What must we do? First, enterprise, work and getting also need to look at health care, energy, transport, ready for employment, as well as further academic construction, defence and many other sectors. study, must be central to a school’s mission. Parents, employers and schools are vital for that. Labour market Despite engineering’s importance, the UK is facing a information through local enterprise partnerships, city shortfall in the numbers and quality of engineers. About deals and the National Careers Service is also vital and 820,000 science, engineering and technology professionals we have been very clear about the role of LEPS in will be required by 2020, with 80% of those required in providing labour market information. The bridge between engineering. The engineering work force is ageing, and employers and the education system, who often speak we will need around 82,000 engineers and technicians different languages, must be based on stronger relationships, just to deal with the requirements up to 2016. That and it is our responsibility to ensure that they happen. demand will not just be met by university graduates; we only produce 23,000 engineering graduates a year, and Centrally and most importantly, the issue is not just not all of them stay in engineering. The loss is a about skills or careers advice. It is about guidance, particular concern when it comes to women. Only 12% inspiration, mentoring and character building—building of engineering students in higher education are women, self-reliance, lateral thinking, motivation and grit among and it gets worse. our children to ensure that they can take on the challenges that they will face throughout their lives so that they Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): One of the can propel themselves through their careers because most inspiring sessions that we did during the Committee’s they are inspired to succeed. Let us take the discussion inquiry involved three young ladies who came to speak forward and be ambitious in our goals, and not merely to us. There was Kirsty, who is currently an apprentice try to recreate failed institutions of the past. at National Grid, Georgie, who was studying her A-levels, and Georgia, who was doing her GCSEs. They told us that a couple of things that were very important in getting ladies into engineering were having role models and having experience of engineering. Will the hon. Gentleman give us his thoughts on that?

Andrew Miller: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. National Grid, in its briefing notes for the debate, quotes Kirsty, who said: “I decided to do an apprenticeship as I could get qualifications and learn a trade at the same time; to do a job that means something; to be able to go into work in the morning and leave knowing I have made a difference to something.” 27WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 28WH

[Andrew Miller] that a lot of companies agree with me on that point. About a quarter of the students accepted on to engineering That young woman was an inspiring witness, as was a degree courses in the UK have an A-level in design and young lady from Novartis who spoke to the Cogent technology. Worryingly, a qualification awarding body awards last year. She explained how she did a higher told us that some schools had been apprenticeship and was able to say cheerfully, at the end “switching large numbers of students away from Product Design, of it, that not only is she ahead of her peer group for her Engineering, Manufacturing and Applied Science GCSEs.” age, but she has a degree, and what is more, she does not In some cases, that has happened when students were have a student debt. She has done rather well. The hon. already six months into those programmes. Gentleman is spot on in terms of the importance of Although we welcome the EBacc’s focus on the women. attainment of maths and science GCSEs, we were concerned In the Queen’s Speech debate, I spoke about the that important subjects such as design and technology importance of breaking the artificial barrier between are being adversely affected as schools focus on the vocational and academic qualifications. In the eyes of EBacc. We recommended that the Government consider far too many people, there is a brick wall between how to reward schools and recognise performance in vocational and academic. It is a continuum, and we non-EBacc subjects when it reviews the school need to support that continuum’s development. accountability system. The TechBacc—the technical baccalaureate—is an Peter Luff (Mid Worcestershire) (Con): I congratulate interesting development. It was designed when we were the hon. Gentleman and his Committee wholeheartedly conducting our inquiry. In April, the Government on the report—eight out of 10, I would say. He has just announced the TechBacc performance measure as an spoken about gender equality and gender issues in engineering, and there is a very good passage in his report on the “alternative to the A level study route for post-16 education.” subject. However, I could find no recommendations to We set out some hopes for the curriculum. First, the address the issues of diversity when it comes to gender TechBacc should offer a broad base of education to and engineering. Was that because he could not think of facilitate a wide range of further study and career any, or have I missed them? options. Secondly, the Government must endeavour to ensure that the TechBacc does not suffer from the Andrew Miller: I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on cultural misconception that plagues vocational education— his response to the Gracious Address. It was interesting namely that it is for the less bright students, which that the leaders of both parties commented on the comes back to my point about that important continuum. sterling work that he is doing on engineering. My Thirdly, and possibly most controversially, we concluded challenge to both Front-Bench Members is to follow that schools must be incentivised to focus on the TechBacc their leaders and deliver on the quality of the work that and, therefore, that the TechBacc should be equivalent the hon. Gentleman is doing. to the EBacc in all respects. A list of courses that will To answer the hon. Gentleman’s question specifically, count towards the TechBacc will be published later this we were concentrating on 14-to-19 education. In my year, and I would welcome the Minister’s comments on view, another part of the work that is needed is for us to whether the TechBacc will be equivalent to the EBacc work on developing continual professional development for those schools that offer it. Could she also comment in schools, including, very importantly, among primary on how many schools might offer the TechBacc? schools, because the seeds are sown at a much younger While the diploma in engineering is yet to prove itself, age. My simple answer is that the issue was outside of it has been in place since 2008. The qualification, which the scope of our report, but he raises a very important is for 14 to 19-year-olds, is available at three levels: point that ties back into the earlier debate, a large part foundation, higher and advanced. It sits alongside the of which I was privileged to sit in on. traditional educational pathways of GCSEs and A-levels, We were keen to find out why there is such a mismatch and it offers students classroom-based learning, combined between the demand and supply of engineers, and how with work-related practical experience. The engineering subject choices were made, which is obviously part of it. level 2 diploma is equivalent to seven GCSEs, with a Let us start with the English baccalaureate. The EBacc core principal learning component equivalent to five performance measure was introduced in 2011, but GCSEs. retrospectively applied to 2010 figures. It recognised As a result of the publication of the Wolf review of where students have achieved a GCSE grade C or above vocational education in March 2011, a vocational in English, maths, sciences, history, geography and qualification will count as equivalent to only one GCSE languages. Looking at the impact of the EBacc on in the 2014 key stage 4 performance tables. That means engineering education, we heard mixed views. Some the engineering diploma would be equivalent to one welcomed the EBacc’s focus on maths and sciences, GCSE in performance tables, despite requiring curriculum which are important precursors for engineering. Some time equivalent to several. evidences shows that the EBacc has correlated with a The Government caused great unhappiness among greater uptake of science GCSEs. Some 93% of GCSE engineers in 2012, when the change to the GCSE students are due to take a double or triple science equivalence of the engineering diploma was announced. GCSE in summer 2014, which is the highest proportion Employers considered the diploma to be excellent at for two decades. providing the next generation of skilled engineers. In However, the EBacc has a downside for engineering, paragraph 17 of their response, the Government do not too. Maths and science GCSEs are not the only route agree with us on vocational skills, saying: into engineering. Important subjects such as design and “The performance table reforms were made following a full, technology are not included in the EBacc, and I know public consultation and were not made in haste.” 29WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 30WH

There is a contradiction in the evidence there, and I concern that that must not be at the expense of teaching would like the Government to publish their evidence, science and engineering in mainstream schools. Perhaps because it certainly conflicts with the evidence we heard. the hon. Gentleman could touch on that. The engineering community started discussions with the Government over redeveloping the diploma in May Andrew Miller: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely 2012. Then, in November 2012, the Chancellor of the right. The Government must focus on good engineering Exchequer announced that the engineering diploma education in all schools and colleges, and not just silo it would be “reworked”. During our inquiry, the Under- in a few specialist institutions. That is hugely important, Secretary of State for Skills, the hon. Member for West and it is one of the issues we all need to consider in Suffolk (Matthew Hancock), stated the reworked diploma relation to the success of UTCs. We must not silo them, “won’t be a diploma” but “four separate qualifications”. but integrate them as part of the mainstream offer; The Government expected the revamped qualifications indeed, in some towns and cities, we must look at how to be available for students to sit as early as 2014. schools can collaborate to make possible a wider spread Although we are pleased that the Government have of engineering skills among students. That is an important been engaging with the engineering community to redesign point. the diploma, some of the damage already seems to have been done. The rapidly climbing numbers of students We have just heard about the Education Committee’s taking the diploma hit a peak and then started dropping. inquiry into careers guidance. Its report set out in detail In one submission, the change was seen as the importance of face-to-face careers advice for young people and recommended that “a retrograde step, out-of-sync with government’s stated intentions to rebalance the economy towards manufacturing.” “the Department for Education introduces into the statutory We concluded that, in changing the engineering diploma, guidance a requirement for schools to publish an annual careers the Government potentially sent a poor message about plan, to include information on the support and resources available to its pupils in planning their career development.” the value of engineering education. The engineering diploma is particularly popular with We looked at careers advice from the engineering university technical colleges. UTCs integrate national perspective, and we concluded that the duty on schools curriculum requirements with technical and vocational to provide access to impartial, independent advice was elements. Recently, I was delighted, as part of my laudable. personal research for the report, to visit the JCB academy. In principle, we support greater autonomy for schools Bamford is not seen as a natural friend of the Labour to provide careers advice. However, the duty poses party, but, goodness me, he has done an amazing job in problems in practice. First, there are resource implications investing in that school. It is inspiring place; indeed, for schools, which are given more responsibility but no people can go into Arkwright’s original mill and see the additional budget to secure careers guidance. Secondly, school’s energy coming from the same mill races Arkwright there is little guidance on the quality of careers guidance used to run the mill, although the safety conditions that should be available to students. That partly comes have improved more than somewhat since those days. back to the fact that there is insufficient time in the What an inspiring school; it helps its talented students school day for teachers to have the continuous professional to work in engineering by encouraging them to get development training that would enable them to be on inside problems and work on complex issues. top of what is happening in the economy and in the With his background, my hon. Friend the Member area surrounding the school. There is a gap, and successive for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt), who speaks Governments have tried to wrestle with the problem, for the Opposition, would be intrigued to see how but we must address it. Shakespeare, for example, was taught. “Romeo and The quality of careers guidance can go up only if Juliet” was being taught when I visited, and I expected a those giving it have at least some understanding of what secondary modern, linear approach, with the play being being an engineer means. An interesting discovery that taught from beginning to end, but the students were we made in research for another Committee report, writing an essay about the causes of conflict between entitled “Bridging the valley of death”, on the economics and within families. What a good way of understanding of developing small high-tech businesses, was that Lloyds what is, after all, a very complicated storyline. That is Bank had found time to send some managers on engineering the way the teaching is done. It is an inspiring school, training courses. If a busy commercial bank can do it, it and it made me want to go back to school. is not beyond the wit of Ministers to develop a similar scheme that would work for teachers, to try to help Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): Just them to understand a bit more about the jobs available to reassure my hon. Friend, I should say that I am in the communities where they teach. visiting the JCB Rocester academy on 5 July, and I am looking forward to it enormously. Stephen Mosley: The hon. Gentleman has not yet Andrew Miller: My hon. Friend will find some very touched on the value of experience in getting people talented students, inspiring teachers and fantastic interested in engineering. One witness went to a lecture equipment. It is worth examining whether we can develop on the Bloodhound supersonic car. That young lady that in other UTCs. said that for her it was a turning point: she had to study engineering, build cars and race them across the world. Stephen Mosley: As a Committee, we were really Opportunities for people to get experience in engineering impressed by the UTCs, the students and the head are hugely important, whether they happen through teachers; we thought that they were a fantastic idea and work experience or education field trips. Does the hon. that they should be rolled out. However, we had a little Gentleman have any thoughts on that? 31WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 32WH

Andrew Miller: I am a great believer in the importance forgotten what they were. For too long, we abandoned—or of practical skills. The teacher I remember most—he is at the very least undervalued—our skilled industrial still alive and I met him a couple of years ago—was and engineering heritage, in favour of other sectors. The George Ellis, who taught me woodwork. George had a time has come for that to change, and I hope that the great talent, with children of any ability—hon. Members report will instigate and support that change. may make jokes about my ability—of breaking problems What lies behind the Government’s reforms in education down to the practical level that they could cope with must be widely and generally welcomed. There is a and building up a solution. That is how he taught deep-seated belief that we need to give young people the children of disparate abilities. He was a passionate best possible opportunities and skills to enable them to believer in getting young people out and about to see get access to the jobs that will exist in future. Some of and experience things with their own eyes. Making an the reforms that we considered will achieve that. We engine work—building it from scratch—and similar may collectively have underestimated the value of skills are ones that we seem to write off these days, engineering, but let us not undersell ourselves. because they are vocational and not academic. As the Committee Chairman, the hon. Member for That brings me back to my point about the importance Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Miller), said, of the continuum. Every one of us, whatever we do, engineering and manufacturing are still hugely important needs that continuum of skills. I agree with the hon. to the country. They are also important to me personally Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley): the in my constituency. The UK is home to more than examples that we heard of kids going to see the Bloodhound 500,000 engineering companies, employing, as we heard, project, and youngsters being involved in Big Bang and 5.4 million people, of whom 2.3 million would consider similar projects, are hugely important. The House should themselves to be skilled engineers. That accounts for 8% press for projects such as Big Bang to continue to be of the work force. As we heard, it accounts for one fifth available for young people. We should try to get more of GDP and half of all our exports, and turns over state schools engaged in it. It would be great if Engineering £1.15 trillion. We should not underestimate the importance UK ended up with a problem that was so big that it of the sector, but we sometimes do, and we therefore could not be managed as a national exhibition, but had seem to have created an ever-widening skills gap, which to be broken down into regional exhibitions. has consequences for the economy and for the rebalancing Peter Luff: It is already doing precisely that. Big Bang of our national wealth. is going regional. Stephen Mosley: I am the co-chairman of the Andrew Miller: I am aware that it is going regional, parliamentary ICT forum, and one of the things that but it is still not yet of such a scale that we can say that companies always tell us is that the No. 1 thing they every school has bought into it. That should be our look for when considering investing in any country is target: to help Engineering UK to achieve just that. not tax or any such factor but whether the skills that I was privileged enough, a few weeks ago, to go back they need are available where they are thinking of to my old stomping ground in Portsmouth and to locating a factory or development lab. The report ties address the congress of the Engineering Professors into that. Council, to present the outcome of our report. The broad thrust of the report has been welcomed by Stephen Metcalfe: My hon. Friend is right. Skills are engineering professors, learned societies, trade bodies a major factor when people are deciding where to and individual companies. Substantial parts of it have invest. Something that I found surprising, or perhaps been welcomed by the Government. My plea is for us all even shocking, was that when the CBI conducted a to work together to deliver on our stated commitments—I survey of companies, it found that 42%, across all refer once again to the comments of the party leaders in sectors, reported a skills gap when recruiting. That the debate on the Gracious Speech. It is up to us to do skills gap is as true in my local context as it is nationally. it, and we have the tools. Let us now get on with it. South Basildon and East Thurrock has a long and 3.24 pm rich industrial heritage, and I shall, if I may, blow my constituency’s trumpet for a moment. For example, one Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) in 10 of the world’s large tractors are built in Basildon, (Con): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship at Case New Holland, generating £7 billion of exports. this afternoon, Mr Walker, and to speak in this important The personal IED-blockers that our servicemen wear in and timely debate. Afghanistan are built, designed and programmed in Why is a debate on educating tomorrow’s engineers Basildon by Selex. Gardner Aerospace is a medium-sized important, and worthy of a report by the Select Committee engineering firm, employing more than 200 staff in my on Science and Technology? There is no doubt that the constituency. It is a tier 1 supplier to Airbus—there is country faces huge challenges. None is greater than the not an Airbus A380 that flies without a part made in economic challenge; and our future is by no means Basildon—and it competes with firms in cheaper-cost-base certain, so we need to carve out a new future for our countries such as India and China, and why is it able to nation—one that is not based just on financial and compete? Because of its quality and because it delivers other service-based industries, which perhaps we have on time. come to rely on too much. They are valuable industries, but we need to rebalance our economy. Tristram Hunt: Given the excellence of the Airbus- We need also to recognise that we will not return to producing manufacturer in the hon. Gentleman’s the heavy metal-bashing industries of the past and that constituency, has that impacted at all on his ideas about we need to play to our strengths; perhaps we had the virtue or otherwise of the European single market? 33WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 34WH

Stephen Metcalfe: That is probably a debate for another giving young people skills and inspiring them into day. There is no doubt, when we export 50% of our potentially interesting and well-rewarded careers. My goods to Europe, that it is an important customer of only concern about the university technical college ours, and I would not want to do anything to undermine programme is that not enough people will have access that, but what does undermine that company’s ability to to it. I think that they are fantastic and would support prosper and grow is the lack of skilled engineers in the them wholeheartedly. I would love to see an engineering wider work force. When I recently visited the company, and logistics university technical college in Basildon. I was told that although it is managing to recruit I am very pleased that, through an initiative funded apprentices to train up to support its current work base, by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, if it were to be offered a new large contract, it could not the Government are creating a network of more than go out into the economy and recruit enough engineers 25,000 STEM professionals and academics who can go to expand, even though we can compete with low-cost-base into schools to support STEM education and promote countries. That demonstrates why it is so important that STEM careers. I understand that the Government are we bridge that skills gap. also part-funding STEM clubs. The hope is that 80% of While I am blowing my own constituency’s trumpet, secondary schools will have one of those clubs by 2015. let me say that it is also home to Ford’s research and I have seen how some of the clubs work in my own development facility at Dunton. The facility employs constituency when they are supported by industry as some 4,000 designers, engineers and technicians. For well. They are fantastic; they really do get people excited. these companies to prosper, we need to bridge that skills Both the private sector and the voluntary sector have gap, so what can be done? a role to play, as I have seen locally. The power generation First, we need to change our attitudes towards company npower runs programmes that involve people engineering as a career. We all need to work harder at going out into schools and showing young people the promoting engineering as the rewarding, well-compensated practical application of engineering. Network Rail produces profession that it is. It is a profession that shapes the support material. JCB, as we have heard, sponsors a world that we live in, and too many people do not UTC. Businesses such as Ford and Selex in my constituency understand that. Certainly, too many young people do support the engineering and STEM clubs. There are not understand it. They are not aware of the role of initiatives such as “We Made It!” and Primary Engineer, engineering—how it shapes the world that they touch which is fantastic, because we cannot start encouraging and experience every day. Even when they understand people to be interested in engineering young enough. that and have a positive attitude towards it, that does Primary Engineer is a project that works with key stage not necessarily translate into wider participation, so we 1 and key stage 2 pupils, getting them to design vehicles must have a change. We must find a way to engage with that they can then test in a competition. It allows them young people and show them that they have a role to to look at the engineering solution to certain problems. play in engineering. That starts in schools, but there are It is fantastic to see in practice. concerns, as we have heard, that some of the changes that have been made to our education system will not Andrew Miller: I add to the hon. Gentleman’s list the necessarily support that. Rolls-Royce awards. This year’s winner is a primary There are concerns that the curriculum changes will school from Belfast. It is an inspiring project that the do little to inspire people to take up STEM subjects: youngsters and teachers have been engaged in, but the science, technology, engineering and maths. There is key there was the partnership between the company and concern that with design and technology no longer the school to bring the technical expertise that was being compulsory, people will not be able to take their outside the school into the classroom. enthusiasm for that subject further. I look forward to being corrected if that is not the case. One of the issues Stephen Metcalfe: Absolutely, and that leads me to that I would like my hon. Friend the Minister to address my next point beautifully. All those things are brilliant, particularly is whether the EBacc is likely to encourage and to see them in action is fantastic. My concern is schools to concentrate on the five core subjects, rather that what is happening is not systematic enough. We are than offering a broader education that might include not getting it into every school, and not every pupil or exposure to engineering. Concern is also expressed that student has access to it. One of the recommendations in the new TechBacc does not receive the same recognition the Select Committee report—I was delighted that the as the EBacc. Again, if that could be addressed, I would Government accepted it without amendment—was that be most grateful. all the learned societies, professional engineering institutions There are concerns, as we heard from the Chairman and trade bodies should oblige their members to go into of the Select Committee, that the changes to and perceived schools, in a systematic way, to promote engineering downgrading of the engineering diploma could send and technology. Even if it was just for one day a year, if the wrong message. I am sure that that is not the each of those engineers could go into schools across the Government’s aim. As I said at the beginning of my whole school body, it could have a significant impact. speech, I believe that the Government’s changes to As a result of some of the initiatives, we are beginning education are designed to give people all the skills that to see an improvement in the uptake of engineering and they need to make the most of the potential that they particularly in the number of engineering apprentices have. and apprenticeships in our economy. Today, just before There are plenty of positives, and I will try to touch I came here, I had some very good news. DP World, on them, although I do not want to detain hon. Members which is constructing the London Gateway container too long. One of the things that I welcome most is the port down at Shell Haven in my constituency, will on university technical colleges—I would certainly welcome Monday announce the creation of six new engineering one in my constituency. They are a fantastic way of apprenticeships to support the engineering activity that 35WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 36WH

[Stephen Metcalfe] parliamentarians about democracy.Most of the Jordanian Members of Parliament I met, rejoiced in the title takes place on that site. To see £1.5 billion invested “engineer” before their name. If only we could honour in south Essex is great, but the engineering feat—the engineering as they do in other societies around the reclamation of the land and then the handling of millions world, it would be better for all of us. of containers—is a fantastic sight and something that I declare a non-interest, in that the excellent Georgie will, we hope, excite those six potential engineers. Luff—who gave evidence to the Committee, is reported In conclusion, there are some fantastic organisations in the minutes of the Committee and referred to in the and companies throughout our country doing some report itself—is, as far as I know, no relation. I wish she great things to inspire the next generation of engineers, were. She is an outstanding young lady and clearly did a but we must do more. We face a lack of skills and a great service to women and engineering in her evidence shortage of aspiration to give people those skills, but to the Committee. I am a non-executive director of a those problems are not insurmountable. My right hon. small advanced manufacturing business, where I am Friend the Prime Minister said that seeing for myself firsthand the very real problems facing “engineers are the real revolutionaries, the ones who take society engineering companies. Skills shortages in engineering forward, who create the technologies and the structures which are real and present. carry us into new worlds.” During my chairmanship of the Select Committee on Although progress is being made and the general thrust Business, Innovation and Skills in the previous Parliament, of what the Government are trying to achieve is welcome, many of the reports we produced referred to the skills we must do all that we can to ensure that engineers can shortage. I became more and more concerned about it, continue to take our society forward and continue to and the inadequate careers advice in schools. As a forge a future that will meet our increasingly complex Defence Minister, I saw for myself just how pressing the needs. I hope that the Government will revisit our shortage was. I went to TRaC Global, a test and evaluation report, take it in the spirit in which it is meant and use it company, and opened its Dorset facility. I was told, to achieve our shared and combined goal of creating a “Minister, we’ve given up looking for engineers from broader uptake of engineering across our whole society. British universities. It is not worth our while, because Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair): Order. Depending they aren’t there. We’re recruiting from Spain and Portugal.” on the length of the next speech, we will start the That was my moment of revelation. It is all right for a winding-up speeches at 4 pm ideally. If the Front Benchers major British engineering company in the civil sector to could leave two minutes for the Committee Chair at the recruit overseas—it is a massive wasted opportunity for end—we are due to finish at 4.30 pm—that would be British young people that they are not being employed well received by all, I am sure. to work in those engineering companies and the jobs are going to foreigners instead—but we cannot do that 3.39 pm in the defence sector, because we need UK eyes only on high security matters. As I said in my speech last week, Peter Luff (Mid Worcestershire) (Con): I am most when I proposed the Loyal Address, the shortage of grateful, Mr Walker; I shall try not to take up all that engineering skills in this country time, generous though the allocation is. I congratulate the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew “is one of the greatest avoidable threats to…prosperity and Miller), the Chair of the Committee, on the excellent security.”—[Official Report, 8 May 2013; Vol. 563, c. 7.] way he introduced his report and on his earlier speech, I stand by those words. and my hon. Friend the Member for South Basildon Locally, the success of engineering companies can be and East Thurrock (Stephen Metcalfe) on what he said. a problem for Members of Parliament. In my part of I agree with everything they have said, which makes this the world, Jaguar Land Rover is flourishing—sucking a consensual, but none the less important debate. up all the design engineers it can find, not only in the I am most grateful to the Chair of the Committee for west midlands, but further afield. The result is that what he said about my speech last week in the Queen’s many engineering companies in my constituency find it Speech debate. I echo what he said about the welcome more and more difficult to recruit engineers due to the response from the Leader of the Opposition, declaring desperate shortage of engineering skills. The shortage is cross-party support for efforts to encourage the status made infinitely worse by the demographic of the engineering of engineering in our society and, in particular, women’s profession. Many people will retire in the next 10 years, role in engineering. My speech last week had one great so we will have to recruit a phenomenal number just to problem; it was overshadowed by the retirement of Sir keep pace and fill the gaps. Alex Ferguson. I have bad news for the Chair of the Committee today; this debate will also not get the I gave the Chair of the Committee eight out of 10 for attention it deserves, because it is being overshadowed the report. That was a bit churlish of me, so I apologise. by the announcement today of David Beckham’s retirement It was mainly because he did not draw its scope quite from football. My serious point is, would it not be great wide enough. It was focused, quite reasonably, on the 14 if the retirement of a major engineering figure attracted to 19 age range. He helpfully said in response to my even a fraction of the attention that the retirement of a intervention that key stage 2 and, as my hon. Friend the major footballer does? As my hon. Friend the Member Member for South Basildon and East Thurrock said, for South Basildon and East Thurrock said, it is engineers key stage 1 matter hugely as well, and I agree. If we are who change the world. Footballers entertain us marvellously talking about inspiring the next generation of engineers, and they are great people—probably overpaid, but great as the report does in chapter 4, starting young is important. none the less—but engineers make the world a better Although the report says all the right things about place to live in. Their role is important to society. I have women in engineering, it does not identify specific steps just come back from Jordan, where I talked to Jordanian that could be implemented to enhance their participation 37WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 38WH rate. In France, the engineering participation rate for —to come into schools to inspire other women to think women is about 21% or 22%; here, the estimates differ, about taking such subjects further than GCSE and to but 10% to 12% is a good guess—half the French rate. provide positive role models? The French are worried that their rate is too low, and yet we have the lowest rate in the European Union. We Peter Luff: Many young women are doing that most are 27th out of 27 and will be 28th out of 28 when magnificently. ScienceGrrl is a marvellous organisation—I Croatia joins. It is a scandal in its own terms, but it is cannot believe how many R’s there are in girl now. They also a missed opportunity for engineering. Modern are a fantastic bunch of young women trying to inspire engineering and its problem-solving nature lends itself the next generation of female engineers and scientists. I more and more to the skills sets that females bring to use the word “engineer”, but I am not sure what it the profession. We desperately need women to be engaged means; I think it is really applied science. in engineering, and it is a great shame that we have not yet succeeded in boosting their numbers. Andrew Miller: For the benefit of Hansard, girl is Another important thing that the Committee’s report spelled G-R-R-L and such is the importance of the refers to—although perhaps not quite enough—is how subject, they are tweeting the debate. to engage business in schools. There is a lot about taking teachers out and helping them to understand business, but how do we help businesses to engage more Peter Luff: I do not think that I am allowed to in schools? What upsets me so much is we are living in a recognise the Gallery, Mr Walker, but I am not surprised. society with a real, acute youth unemployment problem— I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for correcting the not only in this country, but around the world—and number of R’s. I have their literature in my hand. That employers are crying out for skill sets that are not exchange has put my off my stride. available in the labour force. It cannot be beyond the wit Addressing the issue is of huge importance. It is of man to marry up those problems; if we produce valuable for young people to go back to school to show more engineers, we address the problem of youth secondary school pupils doing GCSEs and A-levels unemployment, at least in part, and solve the problems what they can do with those qualifications. The problem facing our economy and security. begins at key stage 2, because many of the role modals Things are happening, which the Government’s response available, for girls in particular, in primary schools are to the Committee’s excellent report mentions. Paragraph 5 female arts graduates. That is not a criticism of them at gives statistics that are encouraging in many senses: all, but they do not understand engineering, nor should “A-level physics entries have risen from 25,620 in 2009 to they be expected to. The key is to get businesses into 30,750 in 2012.” schools. We cannot expect teachers to correct every That is a welcome, good increase—constructive and problem in our society—it would be unreasonable to do positive—but it is nowhere near enough. A problem in so—so let us get businesses into schools. That is why I the debate is that education gets boring so quickly. It particularly welcome what the Minister has done on the becomes ridden with cliché and jargon, complex constructs design and technology curriculum, and I know that she and complex bureaucracies, but there is one thing at the will be glad that I said that. bottom of it: we must inspire more young people, Design and technology is compulsory at key stages 1, particularly girls, to want to be engineers—that is the 2 and 3 and an option at key stage 4. I am happy with essence of it. The Government understand that, as does that arrangement, particularly now that the curriculum the Minister and the Under-Secretary of State for Skills, has been so dramatically improved as a result of her my hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matthew interventions, for which I am grateful. As I said to her Hancock), who responded to the previous debate. The when we met to discuss it a couple of weeks ago, the skills shortage is a matter of the utmost urgency. curriculum now provides an opportunity to get businesses I do not think “complacency” can be used to describe into schools to support it in a way that helps teachers the Government’s response; I caution against that. The and does the inspiration job that my hon. Friend and issue is pressing and urgent and must fundamentally be the Chairman of the Committee spoke so powerfully addressed. The Government are right to say that the about. figures are improving, but the figures are not better The chief executive officers of the major companies enough and they are not improving fast enough. They are waiting for this and want it to happen, but as has are not as high as they were in the 1980s, for heaven’s been said, too much is happening. There are too many sake! The scandal of girls’ participation is a real problem. initiatives at present. It is a fantastically complex world The Institute of Physics produced a marvellous report, out there. I hope that the new design and technology “It’s Different for Girls”, on participation rates for curriculum can act as a focus to inspire the institutions, women in engineering, and physics in particular. One major companies and trade associations to bring the statistic in the report horrifies me more than any other: initiatives together in a single place, probably under 49% of maintained co-educational schools sent no girls EngineeringUK’s “Tomorrow’s Engineers”banner, another on to take A-level physics in 2011. In half of all maintained first-rate initiative. That would bring greater coherence co-educational schools, no girls do A-level physics as a to the massive picture of opportunities out there to result of their education up to A-level. We simply must inspire young people. change that. Physics is, I think, the fourth most popular choice for boy, but the 14th for girls. The figures are well What worries me is that very few of those initiatives down and there is no reason for that whatsoever. are actually reaching my constituency. Primary Engineer, about which my hon. Friend the Member for South Stephen Metcalfe: Does my hon. Friend agree that Basildon and East Thurrock spoke so well, is an outstanding one way to change that shocking statistic would be institution. Why are the Scots using it so intensely and for those women who had studied physics—STEM subjects the English not? The Scots are a great engineering 39WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 40WH

[Peter Luff] well-being. We all want to move wealth across the country away from London and the south-east to ensure nation, but its penetration into Scotland is much greater greater equity in our constituencies. The sector is a than into England. I hope that that can be corrected as profound part of our economy. well. Although I would be happy, indeed delighted, to wax I am particularly grateful to my hon. Friend for lyrical about the wonders of Richard Arkwright, Isambard drawing attention to a Committee recommendation, to Kingdom Brunel, Thomas Telford and Stoke-on-Trent’s which the Government responded in paragraph 52, on own Reginald Mitchell, designer of the Spitfire, at the the role of institutions. To become chartered engineers, moment we should think of the future and the modern people must demonstrate a certain commitment to the global race for competitiveness. We are not where we wider community, and one way of doing so is to need to be on skills, as the recent global survey by demonstrate that they have gone into schools and helped PricewaterhouseCoopers outlined. That survey of more inspire and educate a new generation of engineers. That than 1,300 chief executive officers revealed that UK could be made more specific in the regulations on business leaders are more concerned about the availability chartered engineer status. If the Government are minded of key skills than any of their western European to take forward the discussion on institutions, that is a counterparts, rating the issue as the greatest threat to route that I particularly recommend. their businesses’ growth. We have heard evidence of I am in danger of becoming bored by my own message that in the debate. Three out of four chief executives because I am stating it so often, but it is exceptionally said that creating and encouraging a skilled work force important. I am told by my old mentor Lord Walker, should be the Government’s highest priority for business “It’s only when you’re sick and tired of your own in the year ahead. message that you’re probably just beginning to communicate Nowhere is the struggle for skills more obvious than it to the outside world.” I say to my hon. Friend the in engineering. As the Committee report outlines, by Minister: believe in this. It matters a great deal. She 2020, we will need 820,000 science, engineering and should take the wise words of the Select Committee technology professionals, 80% of whom will be required Chairman and the report seriously, and understand that in engineering. One need only look at the Indian institutes if she can turn around the issue and inspire another of technology or what is going on in China to realise 10% of women to participate in engineering, doubling that the rest of the world is not going to wait around for the figure, she will do a great thing for the cause of her us to catch up. gender, for the economy and for the security of the nation. Stephen Metcalfe: The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful point, with which I am sure we all agree. Does 3.52 pm he therefore fully accept that we are competing on a global stage and that we are in a global race? We owe it Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): It to our young people to give them all the skills that they is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, need to compete in that global race. Mr Walker, and to follow the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff), who has produced another Tristram Hunt: I absolutely agree. The challenge is compelling and interesting speech. I begin to think that how to do so, and politics is the issue. We must push he is a renaissance man, given his involvement also in ourselves up the quality supply chain if we are to earn the upcoming commemorations of the 800th anniversary our money in the world. It is therefore depressing to of Magna Carta in 2015. read in the report that 31% of high-tech manufacturing The Opposition welcome the Science and Technology firms had recruited people from outside the UK owing Committee’s report. It is an important intervention on to a lack of suitably qualified people from within the a question vital to rebalancing our economy and improving UK. It is both a business and a national security question. our competitiveness and, as we have just heard, for One area in which we simply must improve, as the reasons of national security. “How do we educate Chair of the Select Committee and the hon. Member tomorrow’s engineers?” is our collective exam question. for Mid Worcestershire suggested, is redressing the gender The Opposition also welcome the Government’s response balance and the under-representation of women across to the report, now that it has finally arrived. the engineering sector. New research by EngineeringUK I follow the hon. Member for South Basildon and reveals that many girls rule out careers in science and East Thurrock (Stephen Metcalfe), serving as a constituency engineering by the time they are only 14 years old. The Member of Parliament, in thinking of the excellent UK has the lowest number of women scientists and traditions of engineering that we have in Stoke-on-Trent. engineers of all EU countries, fewer than 9% of girls I am thinking particularly of Goodwin International, a opt for physics at GCSE level and 25% of schoolgirls company now in its 10th generation of family ownership, think that science careers are most suited to boys. I which produces precision steel engineering for nuclear remember hearing powerful evidence from the chief power stations in China, as well as for bridges around executive of Brompton Bicycle about looking for a the world. Olympus Engineering is another fine business female design engineer; candidates simply did not come in my constituency. forward. He wanted a female engineer precisely for a As the report and many colleagues have noted, the different way of thinking and problem solving, and for UK engineering sector comprises more than the new capacities that she could bring into his company. 500,000 companies, employing 5.4 million people and Of all OECD countries, we currently languish at 21st generating one fifth of our GDP and half our exports. for intermediate technical skills. I thought that at this In 2010, it generated a £1.15 trillion turnover. By any stage I would introduce some partisan rancour. One measure, that is a profound contribution to our economic would think that the Government would be doing all 41WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 42WH that they could to promote engineering and science and There is a need, however, to look again at the content of to develop a rigorous approach to vocational education the proposed curriculum. I am surprised by some comments and technical skills. We could have had a modern skills made by Government Members about the content, settlement in the Gracious Speech. That would have because the CBI’s director for employment and skills been far more useful to British competitiveness than has said: grandstanding on a European referendum. “The proposed design and technology curriculum is out of Although I am happy, indeed delighted, to pay tribute step with the needs of a modern economy. It lacks academic and to the Minister’s excellent work on promoting mathematics technical rigour, as well as clear links to the realities of the in schools and encouraging greater female take-up of workplace… The proposals…risk reinforcing existing prejudices mathematics, sadly, the Government have not fulfilled about applied subjects being second-rate.” the other side of the equation. Instead, they have devalued apprenticeships, undermined careers guidance by Peter Luff: I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman, abandoning the statutory duty to provide work experience particularly as he is being gracious about my speech. and downgraded a successful qualification in the engineering That was what the CBI said, but I think the hon. diploma. From the Committee’s evidence, it seems difficult Gentleman will find that the new draft of the D and T to substantiate the Government’s claim in their response curriculum, on which I have worked closely with the that they considered the views of the engineering sector Minister, is a great improvement on that. The whole carefully when downgrading the diploma in the infamous sector, including the Royal Academy of Engineering, paragraph 17. the Design and Technology Association and the CBI, Like the Chair of the Select Committee, I also look will be well pleased with the draft that will now be part forward to seeing those responses, because the evidence of the curriculum. is unequivocal. National Grid suggests that downgrading the diploma will make it a less attractive option to Tristram Hunt: I would love to stand corrected. If the schools. Meanwhile, the Engineering Employers Federation CBI and other members of the engineering community stated that the downgrading of diplomas has not sent are delighted with the new curriculum— out the signal to employers and young people that the Government are serious about the status and value of vocational education. I could go on. Peter Luff: Not delighted, but pleased. In light of that damning verdict from the sector’s leading employers’ federation, will the Minister enlighten Tristram Hunt: If they are less unhappy with the new us as to how exactly she considered carefully the engineering curriculum, I look forward to reading their comments sector’s views on the process of the downgrade? The in due course. Opposition agree with the EEF’s verdict and support What we need is the rigour not just of the past but of the Committee’s position that the downgrading of the the future. Of course, the Government have belatedly diploma represents a poor message about how much the announced their proposals for a technical baccalaureate, Government value engineering education. It is all very and that is a welcome change of tone. When the Labour well for the Government to suggest that they are now party announced its plans for a TechBacc, the Government consulting on a replacement, but it is difficult to find dismissed our proposed gold-standard vocational fault with the Committee’s simple argument that any qualification as something that would new plans could have been developed before the decision to downgrade. Indeed, that is arguably representative of “leave millions of state school pupils unemployable.” elements of the Government’s education agenda. If that is not talking down vocational education, I do We all support a rigorous grounding in core subjects, not know what is. and it would be impossible not to welcome, along with Labour’s technical baccalaureate would have a work other hon. Members, the increasing number of pupils experience requirement, and businesses told Labour’s studying triple science and A-level mathematics, as the skills task force that such a requirement is crucial. We Government outlined in their response. The point about would also place control over accrediting courses for the EBacc, however, is not that such core subjects are the TechBacc qualification in the hands of business. not an important part of a well-rounded education for Rolls-Royce or Jaguar Land Rover, for example, which, all—of course they are. The point is in the narrowness, as has been mentioned, are going to transform the skills both the incentive it provides to schools to narrow an training economy in the west midlands with the i54 academic offer and, more importantly, the numbers of development, could be involved in designing the content students it affects. As the Chair of the Select Committee of engineering education. That is in contrast to the pointed out, that can often lead to perverse outcomes. Government’s vision for the TechBacc as an institutional A case in point is design and technology. Manufacturers performance measure—a wrap-up performance measure— and engineers have made it clear that they are troubled rather than as a gold-standard qualification. by its removal from key stage 4 as a compulsory subject. Mr Walker, sadly you were not here, but in the previous debate we discussed the Education Committee’s The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education seventh report. I endorse the concerns expressed in this (Elizabeth Truss): It is not a compulsory subject at key report, which echo those of that report, that the stage 4 at the moment. Government have removed the statutory duty for work experience. In the public consultation to Alison Wolf’s Tristram Hunt: As I say, manufacturers and engineers excellent report, 89% of respondents did not believe would like as much take-up of it at key stage 4 as that the duty should be removed, and with employers possible. It is undoubtedly an important subject for routinely complaining, as we have heard this afternoon, training and educating the next generation of engineers. about the lack of workplace knowledge and the arguably 43WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 44WH

[Tristram Hunt] I am pleased that we all agree that scientific, engineering and technological innovation has a critical role to play poor employability of many young people, the Government in the future of the UK economy. We all know that we must consider whether scrapping work experience is a are in a global race. We need a population that is at least good idea. as mathematically skilled and technologically literate as those of China, Singapore, Brazil and all the other Stephen Metcalfe: The hon. Gentleman is right on emerging countries, and we have a considerable way to one level. Work experience, when done well, can provide go to achieve that. At the moment, we have the smallest a really good opportunity to get an insight into either a proportion of 16 to 18-olds studying mathematics in sector of our economy or the world of work. Too often, the OECD. however, work experience for 14 to 16-year-olds is not In my constituency, I know the vital role that engineering rewarding at all and can put people off work. Schools plays from the apprentices at RAF Marham, who will often scratch around trying to find enough employers shortly be working on the new Lightning II joint strike to provide what is, basically, a sitting service for two fighter, the most advanced fighter jet in the world, and weeks at the end of year 10 and the start of year 11. It from G’s Growers in the food and farming industry, has to be valued and it has to be good, and sometimes who do laser levelling of the land. That shows that that is not possible at 14 to 16. That is why I think that high-tech engineering applications apply across many the emphasis on later, and quality, work experience is different industries. One thing we are doing in the new much more valuable. design and technology curriculum is widening the industrial focus, to ensure that schools are able to work with local Tristram Hunt: Of course the hon. Gentleman is industries that offer those types of skills. The Government right that bad work experience serves no purpose. The are committed to increasing the number of young people onus is clearly on the responsibility to deliver an effective studying STEM subjects. work placement. Once careers guidance is downgraded—as we have discussed—our worry is whether the capacity I agree with the comments made today about getting to offer rewarding work experience and work placements the message across on a broad level. I have held a will be there in schools. We will see how this rolls itself number of round tables recently with people from the out, but with careers, work experience and work placements engineering sector, about how we need to get the message there is a genuine concern that the Government’s emphasis across broadly to parents, as well as to teachers and the and attention are not where they could be, precisely at wider community, about the fulfilment and the economic the time when so many young people face the real value of engineering. We know that people with degrees possibility of unemployment. in subjects such as maths and engineering are some of Some points in the Government’s response are welcome. the most highly paid and sought after, and we need to Clearly, the new accountability proposals are a small get that message through from a very early age. As the step in the direction of correcting the narrow focus of world develops, there is an increasing return to skills. the EBacc as the sole performance measure. The Opposition The correlation between our PISA—programme for also welcome the progress made on university technical international student assessment—results and economic colleges, which play a small but vital role in delivering growth has doubled over the past 30 years. There has engineering excellence. We have heard about the work been a 30% growth in managerial, technical and professional of Sir Anthony Bamford and JCB but, as the hon. jobs, and we need a skilled populace able to take up Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) suggested, those roles. they are not the universal answer, and we must ensure The remit of the report is 14-19 education, but the that science and technology is delivered across mainstream building blocks at primary school are so critical that we schooling. cannot not mention them. Importantly, we are reviewing It is clear that although both sides of the House may our primary mathematics curriculum, so that it focuses share a similar ambition for a dynamic engineering much more on core arithmetic skills. It will ensure that sector at the heart of a rebalanced economy, the Opposition children have their times tables, which are the basis of believe that we have a cast-iron commitment to creating things such as ratio and proportion that are so important the parity that is needed between academic and high in solving multi-step problems in subjects such as quality vocational education routes, so as to educate the engineering. We are also developing a new computing next generation of engineers. curriculum that will start in primary school. Children will learn not just to use IT programmes, but to programme things such as Scratch and Raspberry Pi from an early 4.6 pm age. That will open their eyes, at an early age, to the opportunities that engineering brings. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Elizabeth Truss): It is a delight to serve under your I mentioned the broadening of the design and technology chairmanship, Mr Walker. I thank the members of the curriculum. We want primary schools to open children’s Select Committee for their comprehensive report. We eyes to industries and things available for them to do in have had very interesting speeches from the hon. Member the local area, which is important for getting girls for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Miller), and my involved. There has been a lot of media commentary hon. Friends the Members for City of Chester (Stephen recently about the segregation of girls’ and boys’ toys, Mosley), for South Basildon and East Thurrock (Stephen such as chemistry sets. As parents, we have to stand up Metcalfe) and for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff), and and be counted on such issues. I have two daughters. If I also thank the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for we allow the mindset to develop at that age that particular Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt), for some elements things, such as chemistry and physics, are boys’ things, of his speech. it has a damaging effect later. 45WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 46WH

There is a strong role for design and technology, mathematicians short at university and when many of coupled with good mathematics and good computing those shortages are in engineering courses. We therefore teaching in primary school, in that it is a universal skill need to do more to get students to do A-level maths and that is useful not only for engineering, which is of physics. Our stimulating physics network is particularly course important, but for the quantitative skills that we focused on getting girls to do physics at GCSE and will need much more in subjects such as history than A-level, which is part of our programme. we did in the past. It is something that everybody has to One reason why we have had such a low uptake in know and should focus on. maths from 16 to 18, which is a key basis for engineering, On the design and technology curriculum, we have is that we have not had the mid-level qualification that been working with engineering and other sectors to many other countries have. It has been all or nothing: ensure that it is broad and high level, and that it children do the full A-level or nothing. We are creating encourages students to apply the learning they receive a number of core maths qualifications, such as maths in in mathematics and sciences. In the maths and science education and industry, and we are working with Professor curriculum, we are reforming GCSEs with questions Tim Gowers of Cambridge university on a problem-solving that are more open ended and have a focus that is more qualification. We are also considering a probability and on problem solving, modelling and practical application, statistics qualification similar to the one offered in New so that there is not a divide between theory and practice, Zealand, which succeeded in increasing take-up. but more of a continuum between subjects. The core maths qualification will be part of the People will then understand when they study technical baccalaureate, and we hope that it will be part trigonometry that it is very useful for an engineering of academic programmes of study. I hope that addresses apprenticeship. Some young engineering apprentices in the Select Committee Chair’s aspiration to create more my constituency told me, “We had no idea that the of a common core that all students take from 16 to 18. trigonometry we used at school would actually be useful Clearly, students will also be able to take A-level maths in this job, and now we’re really excited about it.” or further maths, but let us make sure that they continue Would it not be great if, when trigonometry is first with the core study that is so important to whatever taught, the teacher brings up such applications, so that kind of career they go into later. students know that they will be useful for their future I was asked whether the technical baccalaureate is careers? equivalent to the EBacc. No, it is not, because it is a 16-to-18 qualification, while the EBacc is a 14-to-16 Stephen Metcalfe: The Minister is making an excellent qualification. The technical baccalaureate is a high-level point. Too often in education, and not just in science vocational qualification that is aspirational—it includes and technology subjects, the application for later in life level 3 maths—and it is also an applied qualification. It is lost. Perhaps we might broaden that idea to ensure will be recorded in league tables alongside A-level, that there is always some practical example why children, rather than at the 14-to-16 level. That is in line with from a very early age, are learning something. When I Alison Wolf’s report on vocational education, which go into schools, children often have no idea why they recommended that young people follow a general education are there: it is just somewhere they go during the day. curriculum until the end of key stage 4, with vocational Let us explain why education is important to them and specialist options postponed until after that stage, and how it will help them in later life. explains why we have the EBacc, which is a core qualification and represents only 60% or 70% of the Elizabeth Truss: I completely agree. One organisation curriculum, so there is still space for students to study I have talked to is PFEG—the Personal Finance Education additional subjects. That is the expectation to 16, and Group—which is very supportive of the financial education the technical baccalaureate, the academic alternative or programme in schools that we have added to the national an apprenticeship follows from age 16 to 18. curriculum. It is keen to help communicate with primary school children about which careers are likely to be Tristram Hunt: In terms of the direction of travel in available in the future, and which will have the financial UTCs and the emerging 14-to-19 space, with young rewards to support them and their families when they people beginning to think about different paths at 14, grow up. what is the Government’s belief in the UTC model, in There would thus be an early understanding of the relation to the Wolf report, in respect of total academic value of continuing to study some of the subjects in qualifications to 16 relative to beginning different pathways which it may take a while for the penny to drop—we from 14? have all had moments of struggling through sums and finally getting it—and children could be encouraged by Elizabeth Truss: As I said, we think that students being told, “This is what you can do. This is the kind of should do a common core until 16, and even continue thing you could be.” The Under-Secretary of State for to do so until 18 on the critical subjects, which are Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk maths and written communication, for example through (Matthew Hancock) said that he wanted to be an astronaut, an extended project qualification. The core is there, which is an aspirational career—I do not think you following the best traditions of countries such as Germany, were in the Chamber, Mr Walker—but he settled for which has upgraded its qualifications so that all students being an Under-Secretary, which I am sure we agree is do a strong academic core until they are 16. That is the an equivalent profession. Perhaps not. intention behind the new progress 8 accountability measure, We are making good progress on A-levels. The number which includes English, maths, three EBacc subjects of pupils taking A-level maths rose by 51% between and three additional subjects, so providing a common 2005 and 2010. As the Committee commented, however, academic core for all students, plus three additional that is simply not enough, given that we are 200,000 subjects. 47WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 48WH

Andrew Miller: May I plead with the Minister to alter tuition—much more seminar style—in maths and science, a sentence she has just delivered? When she was describing they will also be able to offer teaching support to other the move from the post-16 technical baccalaureate, she schools in their local area. said “or the academic alternative”. No, it should not be An underlying issue in the whole debate is that we “the academic alternative”. It may be an arts or social need to increase teacher supply in the critical subjects. science alternative, but she is using language that reinforces Maths has the greatest teacher shortage, but physics the brick wall that I tried to break down. also has quite a large shortage. The Government are offering bursaries in those subjects. Improving the Elizabeth Truss: Yes, I agree to correct that. I, too, professional development of teachers in those subjects want to break down that brick wall, because we will so that they are inspiring is important in encouraging have students doing core maths plus physics and chemistry, the next generation. Who do children listen most to? as well as core maths plus history and geography or core They listen to their parents and their peers, but they maths plus an applied occupational qualification. The also listen to their teachers, and a teacher can make a key is that those qualifications are valued by employers real difference. Having exemplar schools, whether they or by universities as leading to progress, which is what are UTCs or maths free schools, will help to improve we should be looking at. I am pointing out that the fact the quality of provision. that part of it is the same maths qualification shows Finally, I want to look at the role of industry in that there is a shared core between the A-level side, to promoting STEM education and engineering. As my put it that way, and the occupational side. hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire pointed I think I have covered the point about the accountability out, there are keen institutions that want to get involved tables, and I want to address the issue of the engineering in helping schools. However, it does not always happen diploma. I explained the philosophy that followed the at local level, and sometimes the coverage can be patchy. Wolf review—having a common core until 16, and As we have cross-party consensus on the issue, I am reviewing the league tables in that light. It is wrong to keen that we work together to promote subjects such as see the change in the GCSE equivalents of the engineering engineering, physics and mathematics and their value to diploma as downgrading the qualification. We have the country and to the individual. Too often, when we approved level 2 principal learning in engineering for wake up in the morning and listen to the radio we hear inclusion in the 2015 key stage 4 performance tables. In such negative messages. addition, three new engineering qualifications for 14 to Peter Luff: I again pay tribute to my hon. Friend for 16-year-olds, which are being developed by the Royal the way she has engaged with the design and technology Academy of Engineering and an awarding organisation, curriculum. Business engagement is crucial. She probably are due to be submitted to Ofqual this summer for cannot prejudge it, but is she aware of how the Perkins accreditation. review, which is being conducted by the chief scientist at It is important that we have a consistent message in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, our 14-to-16 and 16-to-18 programmes about the status will address such issues? It is a cross-departmental of qualifications in our league table. The progress 8 matter, not just for her Department. accountability measure really shows the Government’s intention, which is that students of those ages should be Elizabeth Truss: I have met the Government’s chief studying core subjects such as sciences, which are vital scientist on precisely that issue. We need role models for engineering. In particular, we need more students and we need to be able to communicate clearly about studying physics to do engineering, but there is space the key messages. The social value of engineering is very reserved in the accountability measure for subjects such important. Countries such as Malaysia and India have as design and technology and art. been successful in recruiting female engineers. We should look not just at Europe but across the world to understand Many colleagues mentioned university technical colleges, why engineering is seen as an aspirational career. It is which provide an opportunity for young people to enter clear that we need a concerted campaign and a concerted the engineering profession. In the 2011 Budget, the effort to address the whole issue. Despite the fact that Government made a commitment to deliver at least we all know there is a desperate shortage of engineers, I 24 UTCs by 2014, and we are set to exceed that am concerned that the message has not gone through to commitment: five UTCs are already open and 40 are in schools, and students are studying subjects that will not the pre-opening phase, of which 12 are due to open in achieve those aspirations either for them or for the September 2013, and a further 28 in 2014 and 2015. economy they are about to enter. Those UTCs will together allow around 27,500 students to train as the engineers, scientists and technicians of I thank hon. Members for taking part in this interesting the future, which is transformative. debate in which some new ideas have emerged. I hope that we can work together with the Committee to take When good schools open in a local area, it has a some of those ideas forward, and also with the Opposition ripple effect on other institutions. For example, the because there is a degree of cross-party consensus. I am maths free schools, which will be run by universities, delighted to have taken part in the debate. will specialise in maths, further maths and sciences for students looking to go to university to study those Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair): Mr Andrew Miller, subjects. Those schools were announced in the 2011 please feel free to have three and a half minutes, not autumn statement and are based on a model from two. schools already operating in Russia and China. Two have already been approved and are due to open in 2014 4.26 pm at King’s college London, and Exeter. We are in discussion Andrew Miller: Thank you, Mr Walker. I thank all with other universities about the development of more hon. Members who have contributed to this important of these maths schools. As they will have university-style debate. It is great to see that there is a high degree of 49WH Educating Engineers16 MAY 2013 Educating Engineers 50WH cross-party consensus on the matter, and I certainly About a year ago, I had the privilege of sharing a concur with the Minister’s closing remark that we should platform with Sir Kevin Tebbit, at that time, chair of carry on working with her Department to ensure that Finmeccanica, and previously the permanent secretary we drive forward some of the areas of strong agreement. at the Ministry of Defence. He and I were both pleading It is hugely important that we try to use some of the for greater priority to be given to design and technology. time to iron out our differences. I certainly want to I still think that there is a gap between the Committee’s see the evidence that supports paragraph 27 in the thinking on that and the Minister’s. Government’s response, in relation to work experience. In March last year, I shared a platform with Sir Mark The paragraph starts, “We do not believe”. It is not Walport when he was in his role with the Wellcome belief I want but facts. As the Minister has appeared Trust. Now he is the chief scientific adviser. I urge the before our Committee, she knows that we work hard to Minister to read his speech at that conference. I have it ensure that our reports are evidence based. We believe sitting on my desk, so if she cannot find a copy, I will that better policy comes from working in that way. send it to her. He sets out the importance of science practicals, and I hope that we can work strongly together Some organisations working in the field are doing on things like that. There is a huge amount of agreement. a fantastic job. Mention has been made of STEM Let us carry on working together and ensure that we do ambassadors, who are doing a great job. ScienceGrrl justice to the students in our schools and deliver world-class was mentioned by the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire engineers for our world-class manufacturing sector. (Peter Luff). He will be interested to know that a tweet I have just read says, “We love Peter Luff even more Question put and agreed to. now.” Important work is going on in this space, and there is an extraordinary degree of consensus on some 4.29 pm of the issues. Sitting adjourned.

41WS Written Ministerial Statements16 MAY 2013 Written Ministerial Statements 42WS

The results of the reports will be a comprehensive, Written Ministerial thorough and detailed analysis. It will aid our understanding of the nature of our EU membership and it will provide Statements a constructive and serious contribution to the wider European debate about modernising, reforming and improving the EU. The reports will not produce specific Thursday 16 May 2013 policy recommendations. The calls for evidence documents are being placed in the Libraries of both Houses. They are also published BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS and available on the Government website: https:// www.gov.uk/review-of-the-balance-of-competences. Balance of Competences

The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Skills (Vince Cable): My hon. Friend the Economic Secretary to the Treasury and I wish to inform both Houses that following our right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs’ oral Balance of Competences statement launching the review of the balance of competences in July 2012 and written statement on the progress of the review in October 2012, the Department The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport for Business, Innovation and Skills, HM Revenue and (Maria Miller): Further to the oral statement by the Customs and the Intellectual Property Office are publishing Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth their calls for evidence. Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond The review of the internal market: free movement of (Yorks) (Mr Hague), launching the review of the balance goods is being jointly led by the Department for Business, of competences on 12 July 2012, Official Report, column Innovation and Skills (BIS), HM Revenue and Customs 468, and his written ministerial statement on the progress (HMRC) and the Intellectual Property Office, (IPO), of the review on 23 October 2012, Official Report, with HMRC taking a lead co-ordinating role. The review column 46WS, we are today publishing a call for evidence will consider the balance of competence over intra-EU for the tourism, culture, and sport report. trade in goods, the customs union and the protection of The report will be completed by the autumn of 2013 intellectual property. and will cover the overall application of EU competence The review of trade and investment is being led by in the tourism, culture, and sport sectors. In all three BIS and will consider external trade (third country sectors that competence is supporting only, meaning trade) and investment. However, given that trade in that both the UK and the EU may act: and that action goods is a major theme for both reviews, the review by either does not preclude action by the other. The teams will be co-ordinating their reviews closely. report will be an opportunity to consider this relationship, and to examine the evidence concerning the impact of The research and development review will cover research, EU competences on the UK’s national interest in the technological development and space. As innovation is sectors of tourism, culture, and sport. closely related to research and technological development, it will fall within the scope of this review. The report will not cover EU competences which The call for evidence period will last 12 weeks, from affect other sectors for which my Department is responsible, 16 May 2013 to 6 August 2013 and officials will draw including electronic communications, media and the together the evidence and policy analysis into draft creative industries. This is because the EU does not reports, which will subsequently go through a process exercise specific competence for these sectors. It does of scrutiny before publication in December 2013. however act under a wide range of competences which have very significant impacts on them. Many of these BIS, IPO and HMRC will take a rigorous approach relate to the internal market in services, where my to the collection and analysis of evidence. Each call for Department will be working closely with the Department evidence sets out the scope of the report and includes a for Business, Innovation and Skills in subsequent stages series of broad questions on which contributors are of the review. The Government equalities unit will be asked to focus. Interested parties are invited to provide separately contributing to the review of the social and evidence with regard to political, economic, social and employment competence, on which work will start in technological factors. The evidence received (subject to the autumn of 2013. the provision of the Data Protection Act) will be published alongside the final reports in December 2013 and will The call for evidence period will last until early be available on the Government website www.gov.uk. August. My Department will draw together the evidence The Departments will pursue an active engagement into a draft, which will subsequently go through a process process, consulting widely across Parliament and its of scrutiny before publication in the autumn of 2013. Committees, businesses, the devolved Administrations We will take a rigorous approach to the collection and civil society in order to obtain evidence to contribute and analysis of evidence. The call for evidence sets out to our analysis of the issues. Our EU partners and the the scope of the report and includes both general and EU institutions will also be invited to contribute evidence more sector-specific questions on which contributors to the reviews. As the reviews are to be objective and are invited to focus. The evidence received—subject to evidence based, we are encouraging a wide range of the provisions of the Data Protection Act—will be interested parties and individuals to contribute. published alongside the final report. 43WS Written Ministerial Statements16 MAY 2013 Written Ministerial Statements 44WS

My Department will pursue an active engagement building on the success of the Queen’s diamond jubilee process, consulting widely across Parliament and its and the London Olympic and Paralympic games last committees, the tourism, culture and sport sectors, and year, and we will emphasise the role of national identity the devolved Administrations in order to obtain evidence in underpinning cultural diplomacy and building to contribute to our analysis of the issues. Our EU relationships with the wider world. partners and the EU institutions will also be invited to Sport contribute evidence to the review. The Council will receive a report from the presidency The result of the report will be a comprehensive on the state of play in relation to a proposal for a analysis of EU competence in these sectors, and what decision authorising the European Commission to this means for the United Kingdom. It will aid our participate, on behalf of the EU, in the negotiations for understanding of the nature of our EU membership; an international convention of the Council of Europe and it will provide a constructive and serious contribution to combat the manipulation of sports results. to the wider European debate about modernising, reforming and improving the EU. The report will not produce The Council is expected to adopt conclusions on dual specific policy recommendations. careers for athletes. These conclusions are based on the I am arranging for “Review of the Balance Of “EU guidelines on dual careers for athletes” produced Competences: Tourism, Culture and Sport—Call for by the EU expert group on education and training in Evidence” to be placed In the Libraries of both Houses. sport, which is chaired by the UK. This is one of the outcomes of the European Union work plan for sport for 2011-14 which highlighted the role of education, Education, Youth, Culture and Sport Council training and qualifications in sport. The conclusions recognise that young people should be supported as they seek to continue their education while aspiring to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, be high performance athletes. This will offer them further Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey): The Education, opportunities to contribute to society following the end Youth, Culture and Sport Council will take place in of their athletics careers. The UK will support the Brussels on 16-17 May. The culture, audiovisual and adoption of these conclusions. sport issues will be taken on 17 May. The Under-Secretary On anti-doping, the Council will receive a report of State for Culture, Media and Sport, the hon. Member from the presidency on the recent World Anti-Doping for Wantage (Mr Vaizey), will represent the UK at Agency (WADA) meetings in Montreal on 11-12 May. the culture and audiovisual section of the Council, together with the Scottish Minister for Culture and The Council will also hold a policy debate on the role External Affairs, Fiona Hyslop. The Deputy Permanent of public authorities in combating increased sophistication Representative to the EU, Shan Morgan, will represent of doping in sport. In this debate the UK will stress that the UK at the sport section of the Council. to tackle doping in sport effectively, information sharing and strong partnerships between the Government, anti- Culture and Audiovisual doping organisations, sport and law enforcement agencies The Council will be invited to adopt a general approach are just as important as catching athletes through a on the proposal for a decision establishing the European rigorous testing regime. capitals of culture action for the years 2020-33. This action will follow on from the current European capitals Any Other Business of culture action which ends in 2019. The proposal The German delegation will present a note on the takes account of our key concerns in relation to the role Commission’s draft communication on state aid for of the member states in the selection and designation films and other audiovisual works. The UK will intervene process, and the UK will support the proposed general on this item to indicate that we are broadly supportive approach. of the Commission’s new draft of the communication The Council is also expected to adopt a decision and that we welcome the Commission’s commitment to designating Aarhus (Denmark) and Paphos (Cyprus) as complete the consultation process as swiftly as possible. the European capitals of culture for 2017 and Valletta The German delegation will also present a note on (Malta) as European capital of culture for 2018. The state aid reform—a general exemption from notification UK will support this decision. requirements for culture. Germany considers that the The Council will hold an exchange of views on proposal for an exemption clause for state aid for culture cultural diversity in the context of the transatlantic should be discussed by the Ministers for Culture before trade and investment partnership (TTIP) with the USA. the Council agrees to give the Commission powers to This item has been requested by the French delegation. make such an exemption in the revised enabling Council The French Government have expressed concern about regulation. The UK is content with the proposal for an protecting cultural diversity in the forthcoming EU-US exemption clause and we do not expect to have to negotiations. The UK will intervene to say that a broad intervene on this issue. and ambitious negotiating mandate is in Europe’s best The presidency will present an update to the Council interests in order to deliver a truly comprehensive deal on the follow-up to the 2008 Council conclusions on that will bring substantial benefits to the economies of architecture: culture’s contribution to sustainable the member states. development. These conclusions included a requirement The Council will also hold a policy debate on the use for a stocktake to assess their implementation and of culture as a soft policy option in EU external relations. impact. This is now being taken forward. The presidency’s The UK will intervene in the debate to highlight how we update is expected to include a report on the recent are using culture in our own external relations to promote conference of the European forum for architectural the UK as a great place to live, work, study and visit, policies in Dublin on 8-10 May. 45WS Written Ministerial Statements16 MAY 2013 Written Ministerial Statements 46WS

The presidency will also update the Council on the It has been brought to my attention that the information current state of play with the proposed regulations provided by the Care Quality Commission (CQC) in the establishing the creative Europe and Europe for citizens table in the original answer did not contain every instance programmes for 2014-20. Both these programmes will where information of concern about an organisation follow on from existing EU programmes. The presidency was received by the CQC. The table below shows the is currently holding informal trilogues with the European full number of times information of concern was received. Parliament and the Commission to discuss the creative I have also taken this opportunity to clarify that the Europe regulation with a view to facilitating a first numbers provided in the table are for all information of reading agreement. The Europe for citizens proposal is concern raised about an organisation, and do not specifically currently with the European Parliament, which must relate to children’s heart surgery. give its assent before the regulation can be adopted by The corrected answer is as follows. the Council. The Portuguese delegation will present a note on Under the Health and Social Care Act 2008, the better connections for a better Europe in which they CQC does not have the responsibility for investigating propose two new programmes designed to improve specific complaints about providers. The CQC is responsible communications between Government and non- for checking that providers that are registered meet Government stakeholders across the EU on matters of standards of quality and safety. The CQC’s role does general concern to cultural policy makers. We do not not include investigating individual complaints about propose to intervene on this item. Given the need to these services. Under the NHS complaints procedure, prioritise activities at a time of fiscal constraint, we will formal complaints are raised with the service provider expect any formal proposals in this area to be properly in the first instance. The CQC’s predecessor, the Healthcare costed and evaluated before we can form a view on Commission, did have responsibility for second stage them. complaints, once local resolution had been unsuccessful. This responsibility ceased on 1 April 2009. Finally, the Lithuanian delegation will inform the Council of the work programme and priorities for their When the CQC receives information of concern from forthcoming presidency of the Council. people who use services, their relatives and members of the public, it uses the information to inform its inspection programme and the quality and risk profile of the service provider. HEALTH The CQC has provided the following information: Parliamentary Written Answer (Correction) The following table shows the number of times information of concern has been received by the CQC under the Health and Social Care Act 2008 for specified The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health hospitals by location or provider, by fiscal year. The (Anna Soubry): I regret that the written answer given to table shows data for all locations at each provider. Due the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) to the manner in which CQC records this data, it on 17 April 2013, Official Report column 418W,contained cannot determine the nature of the concern, which may some incomplete figures in the table. not therefore be related to children’s heart surgery.

Number of Enquiries, by Fiscal Year Information of Concern Organisation Name 2008-2009 2009-2010 2010-2011 2011-2012 2012-2013 2013-2014 Total

BirminghamChildren’sHospital0041005 Great Ormond Street Hospital for 0113409 Children NHS Foundation Trust Alder Hey Children’s NHS 0010203 Foundation Trust Royal Brompton and Harefield 0001001 Hospital NHS Foundation Trust Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS 33214013 Foundation Trust Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS 142865686 Trust University Hospitals Bristol NHS 213610224 Foundation Trust The Newcastle-upon-Tyne Hospitals 03318015 NHS Foundation Trust Oxford University Hospitals NHS 16533119 Trust University Hospital Southampton 230111017 NHS Foundation Trust University Hospitals of Leicester 175524143 NHS Trust Total 10 28 26 30 131 10 235 47WS Written Ministerial Statements16 MAY 2013 Written Ministerial Statements 48WS

HOME DEPARTMENT will be published alongside the final report in late 2013 and will be available on the new Government website www.gov.uk. The call for evidence period for both Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures reports will last 12 weeks. The Home Office, together Act 2011 with the Department for Work and Pensions in the case of the free movement of persons report, will draw together the evidence and policy analysis into draft The Secretary of State for the Home Department reports, which will subsequently go through a process (Mrs Theresa May): In accordance with section 20(2), of scrutiny before publication in late 2013. 20(3), 20(4) and 20(5) of the Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures (TPIM) Act 2011, the independent The Home Office and the Department for Work and reviewer of terrorism legislation, David Anderson QC, Pensions will seek to consult widely across Parliament prepared a report on the operation of the Act in 2012, and its Committees, the devolved Administrations, business, which I laid before the House on 14 March 2013. civil society and other interested parties. We will also invite our EU partners and the EU institutions to I am grateful to David Anderson QC for his report, contribute evidence to the reports. As the review is to be the first on the operation of the TPIM Act 2011. objective and evidence-based, it is important to encourage Following consultation within my Department and with contributions from a wide range of interested parties to other relevant agencies, I am today laying before the inform the policy debate. House my response to the independent reviewer’s report. The result of the reports will be a comprehensive, Copies of the Government response will be available thorough and detailed analysis of the balance of in the Vote Office and through the Gov.UK website. competences between the EU and the UK on the issues of asylum and immigration, and free movement of persons. Balance of Competences It will aid our understanding of the nature of our EU membership; and it win provide a constructive and serious contribution to the wider European debate about The Minister for Immigration (Mr Mark Harper): I modernising, reforming and improving the EU. The wish to inform the House that the Home Office is today reports will not produce specific policy recommendations. publishing its calls for evidence on the asylum and I am placing this document and the calls for evidence immigration report and, together with the Department in the Libraries of both Houses. They will also be for Work and Pensions, the free movement of persons published on the Home Office website and the free report of the balance of competences review, launched movement of persons report will also be published on by the Foreign Secretary by oral statement before the the Department for Work and Pensions website. Both House on 12 July 2012, Official Report, column 468. reports will be accessible through the balance of Both reports will be completed by late 2013. The competences review pages on GOV.UK. asylum and immigration report will cover the asylum and immigration competences that affect nationals from outside the EU/EEA, those not exercising EU/EEA rights, and the control of the UK’s borders. The asylum JUSTICE and immigration call for evidence has been divided into three sections for convenience—borders and visas; asylum; and legal migration—and in recognition of that fact Whiplash Claims that the UK’s participation operates differently in each area. Interested parties are invited to provide evidence with regard to each. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mrs Helen Grant): The Government share the widespread The free movement of persons report will cover the concerns about the disproportionate growth in whiplash application and effect of the free movement of persons claims and the impact they have on the price of motor provisions, one of the “four freedoms” of the EU insurance premiums. To address these issues, I announced internal market. The free movement of persons report to this House on 11 December 2012, Official Report, will focus on the implementation of the right of EU column 32WS, that the Government were launching a nationals to live, work and study abroad and rights to consultation on “Reducing the Number and Costs of social security co-ordination under EU law. It will look Whiplash Claims”. at articles 18, 20, 21, 45-48 and 49-52 of the treaty on the functioning of the European Union (TFEU), the The consultation ran for 12 weeks and sought views primary legislation which established the internal market. from stakeholders on proposals to introduce independent The report will also look at the relevant secondary medical panels and on whether to amend the small legislation, which includes; directive 2004/38/EC (the claims threshold for damages for personal injury claims. “free movement directive”), regulation 883/2004 and its It committed the Government to review the submissions implementing regulation 987/2009, regulation 492/2011 received and publish a response in spring 2013. and directive 2005/36/EC. The consultation closed on 8 March. However, on The Home Office and the Department for Work and 15 March the Transport Committee announced an inquiry Pensions will seek evidence to conduct a rigorous analysis into whiplash, which would include an examination of of EU competence in these areas. The calls for evidence the Government’s consultation proposals. set out the scope of the reports and include a series of The Government believe that, prior to taking any broad questions, which provide a framework for interested final decisions on whiplash reform, they should give groups to contribute to the reports. The evidence received— due consideration to the views of the Transport Committee. subject to the provisions of the Data Protection Act— The Government also believe that the impact of their 49WS Written Ministerial Statements16 MAY 2013 Written Ministerial Statements 50WS recent civil reform programme on the price of motor I am placing the call for evidence in the Libraries of insurance premiums needs to be assessed. Consumers both Houses. They will also be accessible through the should be rewarded with the lower litigation costs being balance of competences review pages on the Foreign reflected in lower insurance premiums. and Commonwealth Office website. For these reasons the Government have decided to defer publication of their formal response to the consultation until after the Committee has reported. TRANSPORT The Government’s consultation document was laid before Parliament when the consultation began. It is HS2 Phase One Consultations also available online at: https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/ The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick reducing-number-cost-whiplash. McLoughlin): The Government have today published two documents for consultation which significantly move Balance of Competences forward our work on the HS2 route between London and the west midlands (known as phase 1 of HS2). These are the draft environmental statement and the The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice design refinements consultations. (Chris Grayling): I wish to inform the House that, Publication of the draft environmental statement (ES) further to the Foreign Secretary’s oral statement launching is a key step towards delivering the hybrid Bill for the the review of the balance of competences on 12 July HS2 route between London and the west midlands. The 2012, Official Report, column 468, and the written formal ES will be published alongside the hybrid Bill statement on the progress of the review on 23 October later this year, having been further refined in light of 2012, Official Report, column 46WS, the Ministry of responses to the draft ES consultation. Justice has published its call for evidence in the area of The draft ES provides, wherever available, information civil judicial co-operation, which includes family matters. on the likely significant environmental effects of HS2—and The report will be completed by December 2013 and our plans wherever possible to mitigate them. will cover the overall application and effect of EU The Government believe that HS2 is vital for this instruments in the area of civil judicial co-operation. country and will provide a huge economic return. However, The call for evidence period will last 12 weeks. The I am aware that the building of the railway will cause Ministry of Justice will draw together the evidence and disruption for those living close to the line of route. I policy analysis into a first draft, which will go through a am determined that this disruption should be kept to a process of scrutiny before publication towards the end minimum and mitigated wherever possible. of 2013. Consulting on the draft ES is not a statutory requirement The report will focus on article 81 of the treaty on the but the Government recognise the importance of ensuring functioning of the European Union (TFEU), using this widespread engagement on the scheme. Best design can and the jurisprudence emanating from it as a legal base. only be reached with the input of local communities, The Ministry of Justice will take a rigorous approach environmental groups and all levels of Government. to the collection and analysis of evidence. The call for Once the hybrid Bill is deposited, there will be a evidence sets out the scope of the report and includes a further period of consultation on the formal environmental series of broad questions on which contributors are statement as part of the parliamentary process. asked to focus. Interested parties are invited to provide Alongside the draft ES, I have published a consultation evidence in relation to the impact or effect of the on a series of design refinements for the HS2 route competence in their area of expertise. The evidence between London and the west midlands. Since we set received—subject to the provisions of the Data Protection out our proposed route in January 2012 we have been Act—will be published alongside the final report in late developing the detailed design of the scheme, listening 2013 and will be available on the new Government to the representations from individuals and organisations website: www.gov.uk. affected by the route. This refinement process aims to The Department will pursue an active engagement ensure that we design a railway that is as efficient and process, consulting widely across Parliament and relevant effective as possible while limiting as far as practicable committees, businesses, the devolved Administrations, its impacts on people and the environment. judiciary and legal practitioners in order to obtain Many of these proposed refinements are small in evidence to contribute to our analysis of the issues. Our scale but some are more significant, altering the local EU partners and the EU institutions will also be invited impact of the scheme. To ensure my final decisions on to contribute evidence to the review. As the review is to these refinements are informed by the best possible be objective and evidence based, we plan to encourage a information I have decided to consult on my initial wide range of interested parties to contribute to ensure preferences for the more significant changes before a high yield of valuable information. deciding whether to include them in the final design of The result of the report will be a comprehensive, the scheme. thorough and detailed analysis of the findings and aid Consultation on both the draft environmental statement our understanding of the nature of our EU membership; and the design refinements closes on 11 July. Consulting it will provide a constructive and frank contribution to on these two documents is part of the process of helping the wider European debate about modernising, reforming to make HS2 the best it can be, providing passengers and improving the EU. The report will not, however, with the high level of service they expect while minimising produce specific policy recommendations. as far as practicable the impact on local communities.

331W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 332W

Mr David Jones: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the Written Answers to answer I gave on 15 May 2013, Official Report, columns 625-26, to my hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield Questions (Michael Fabricant). Pay

Thursday 16 May 2013 Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what guidance his Department issues on the actions that would result in the suspension or removal of a bonus payment to an official in his Department; what SCOTLAND the process is for clawing back such bonuses; and on Pay how many occasions this has happened in each of the last five years. [155007] Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland Stephen Crabb: The Wales Office is not an employer what guidance his Department issues on the actions in its own right, and adopts the policies of the Ministry that would result in the suspension or removal of a of Justice (MOJ). The MOJ has no policy for claiming bonus payment to an official in his Department; what back bonuses and, as such, no bonus payments have the process is for clawing back such bonuses; and on been returned in the last five years. how many occasions this has happened in each of the last five years. [155004]

David Mundell: The Scotland Office does not employ PRIME MINISTER staff directly. All staff that join the Office do so on an assignment, secondment or loan agreement from other Honours Government bodies, but principally from the Scottish Government or the Ministry of Justice. Mr Frank Field: To ask the Prime Minister if he will establish a single honours list each year rewarding the The Scotland Office is not responsible for end of year giving of money to charitable works and foundations performance payments and does not hold information and to honour equally those who similarly generously centrally on these matters. The Office is however able to give their time to charitable activity. [154213] directly authorise non-consolidated and non-pensionable bonus payments (including small and instantaneous The Prime Minister: Two honours committees already awards, eg vouchers) in recognition of special effort, exist that perform these tasks: the Philanthropy Honours achievement and commitment. No bonus payments Committee and the Community, Voluntary and Local have been suspended or removed in the last five years. Services Honours Committee. Candidates recommended for honours by both these committees appear in the Wilson Review new year and birthday honours lists. Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for Lynton Crosby Scotland when he plans to publish the Wilson Review. [155464] Mr Watson: To ask the Prime Minister (1) whether Mr Lynton Crosby is classified as a Government special Michael Moore: The Wilson Review of support for adviser; and whether he has been subjected to (a) all Scottish exporting is currently scheduled to submit its forms of personnel security control, (b) a counter report to me this autumn. The Government will then terrorism check, (c) a security check and (d) developed consider its findings and recommendations before vetting; [155213] publishing it before the end of 2013. (2) whether Mr Lynton Crosby is allocated an office in No. 10 Downing Street; whether he has a Government email address; and if he will list the Government buildings WALES to which he has a security pass. [155214] Inflation The Prime Minister: Mr Lynton Crosby is not employed by the Government. He does not have an office in Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if No. 10 Downing street, a Government e-mail address he will list the purposes for which his Department uses or a security pass to any Government building. (a) the retail price index measure of inflation, (b) the consumer price index measure of inflation and (c) any alternative measure of inflation. [154967] NORTHERN IRELAND Stephen Crabb: The Wales Office does not generate Pay statistical analysis that would require us to use such indices. Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern National Assembly for Wales Ireland what guidance her Department issues on the actions that would result in the suspension or removal Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for of a bonus payment to an official in her Department; Wales what considerations have been made with regards what the process is for clawing back such bonuses; and to renaming the National Assembly for Wales the on how many occasions this has happened in each of Parliament of Wales. [155573] the last five years. [155003] 333W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 334W

Mike Penning: Staff employed by my Department are Mr Simon Burns: The number of staff employed at on Ministry of Justice (MOJ) terms and conditions. As Directly Operated Railways along with the activities such, they may be eligible to receive performance-related that are undertaken by the company in any given year bonuses at the end of the reporting year. In line with are published in their annual report and accounts which MOJ performance management policies, such bonuses are available on the company’s website at: are only paid where there is clear evidence of outstanding www.directlyoperatedrailways.co.uk and exceptional performance throughout the previous reporting year. There is, therefore, no requirement for High Speed 2 Railway Line processes to suspend, remove or claw back bonuses and there has been no occasion when this has occurred. Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport with reference to the answer of 11 March 2013, Official Report, column 20W, on high speed 2 railway line, when he plans to publish the draft environmental statement. TRANSPORT [155046]

Directly Operated Railways Mr Simon Burns: The Secretary of State for Transport, my right hon. Friend the Member for Derbyshire Dales (Mr McLoughlin), issued a written ministerial statement Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for to the House about HS2 Phase One Consultations Transport what estimate he has made of staffing levels today. at Directly Operated Railways for the next two years; and what the job description will be for each grade. Michael Fabricant: To ask the Secretary of State for [155147] Transport what plans his Department has to assist British companies to win contracts for the construction Mr Simon Burns: We do not anticipate any change in and manufacture of tracks, locomotives and carriages staffing levels for Directly Operated Railways’ core for the proposed High Speed 2 service. [155163] functions from those published in the latest accounts at: www.directlyoperatedrailways.co.uk Mr Simon Burns: The Government’s National This level of resource will be adjusted if further work is Infrastructure Plan makes clear the importance of a necessary in connection with fulfilling the Secretary of predictable and transparent pipeline of infrastructure State’s duties under section 30 of the Railways Act projects, which helps British companies gear up for and 1993. respond to opportunities. HS2 forms a key element of that long-term pipeline. Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for As the HS2 project moves forward, the Government Transport what changes in legislation would be required will do all it can to ensure that companies with a British to allow Directly Operated Railways to permanently presence are well placed to compete for future contracts. operate franchised rail passenger services. [155151] Inflation Mr Simon Burns: The Department has not analysed in detail what changes in legislation would be required Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport to allow this. if he will list the purposes for which his Department The current statutory regime under section 26 Railways uses (a) the retail price index measure of inflation, Act 1993 is that the Secretary of State for Transport (b) the consumer price index measure of inflation and may select the person who is to be the franchisee in (c) any alternative measure of inflation. [154969] relation to a franchise agreement from among those who submit tenders in response to an invitation to Norman Baker: There are many contracts in my tender and the Secretary of State intends to select all Department and its agencies which are linked to the franchise operators in this way unless the exceptions set Retail Price Index (RPI). These include PFI service out in his section 26 policy statement apply. payments, the Severn River Crossing loan and grants to Directly Operated Railways (DOR) was set up to act Passenger Transport Executives and Network Rail. Many as the ″operator of last resort″ in the event that Secretary of these payments are contractually linked to a specified of State needs to step in to secure the provision of rail inflation measure so we cannot change to an inflation passenger services in accordance with his duty under measure that produces different payment amounts without section 30 of the Railways Act 1993. Section 25 of the reopening the contract. same Act would prevent DOR from itself responding to Other major uses of the RPI by my Department are invitation to tenders to operate franchised rail passenger in annually inflating Network Rail’s Regulated Asset services. In order to allow DOR to permanently operate Base (RAB), calculating the annual permitted increase passenger rail services these provisions of domestic law in regulated rail fares using an RPI related formula and at a minimum would need to be changed and we would in re-letting franchises, where an assumption on RPI is also have to be mindful of European law regarding a fundamental element of the bid. procurement and competition. Many of the Department’s models which forecast transport demand and network congestion use both the Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for RPI and the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) deflator, Transport how many staff were employed by Directly as published by HM Treasury. Various inflation indices Operated Railways in the last two years; and what roles are used in appraisal of policies, in particular in Impact were performed by each grade of staff. [155156] Assessments. This is often the GDP deflator, to calculate 335W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 336W figures on a comparable price base but the inflation The Department has not analysed what changes in index used should be explained in all published Impact legislation would be required to allow Network Rail to Assessments. take over the operation of franchised passenger services. Other inflation indices used include Average Weekly Current domestic and EU law and policy has as an Earnings (AWE) which is used as an index for labour objective the separation of rail infrastructure from service related costs in some franchise agreements, resource provision and this degree of separation is proposed to cost index of road construction (ROCOS) which is used be increased further in the 4th Railway Package. This is in valuation of the road network and regional land and for reasons including the prevention of conflicts of building indices (derived from RICS market appraisal) interest and the promotion of competition for services. which are used by the Highways Agency to value freehold land and buildings yearly. Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what assessment he has made of the implications Merchant Shipping (Diving Safety) Regulations 2002 for the domestic rail (a) industry and (b) staff of the European Commission’s Fourth Rail Package requirement John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for for EU member states to regularly tender all or some of Transport when he next plans to discuss repeal of the their rail passenger services; and what the current deadline Merchant Shipping (Diving Safety) Regulations 2002 is for transposing this requirement into UK law. with officials from the Health and Safety Executive [155143] (HSE); and if he will publish the (a) dates and (b) minutes of all previous meetings his Department has Mr Simon Burns: The Department for Transport is held with HSE officials to discuss that subject. [155249] still considering the implications of this EU proposal. However, the European Commission has carried out its Stephen Hammond: The Maritime and Coastguard own impact assessment which was published alongside Agency (MCA) notified the Health and Safety Executive the EU proposal. This is available on the European (HSE) of their proposal to revoke the Merchant Shipping Commission’s website at (Diving Safety) Regulations 2002 as part of the liaison http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/ between the HSE and the MCA on the Red Tape LexUriServ.do?uri=SWD:2013:0011:FIN:EN:PDF Challenge in October 2011 and January 2012. No meetings have been held to discuss this specific proposal to date; There is no current deadline for the entry into force however, a more detailed discussion will be held prior to of the final regulation relating to the tendering of rail any changes to the regulations. passenger services: EU regulations have direct effect and would not generally need to be transposed into Pay UK law.

Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for what guidance his Department issues on the actions Transport in respect of the current negotiations between that would result in the suspension or removal of a his Department and the incumbent franchisee for an bonus payment to an official in his Department; what extended rail passenger service contract for the (a) the process is for clawing back such bonuses; and on Essex Thameside, (b) Thameslink, (c) Inter City West how many occasions this has happened in each of the Coast, (d) Great Western, (e) Greater Anglia, (f) last five years. [155005] Northern, (g) London Midland, (h) East Midlands and (i) South Eastern lines, which of these existing Norman Baker: The Department does not provide contracts currently require revenue support; and what bonus payments. However, a small element of salary is the amount of such support is in each case. [155148] “held back” and must be re-earned for staff working in the Department and some of its executive agencies. Mr Simon Burns: The most recent available figures, This takes the form of a performance related non- for 2011-12, had the following contracts requiring revenue consolidated payment which must be re-earned by staff support: annually. Performance awards are paid in retrospect meaning £ million that performance must be agreed and signed off before performance payments are made. As a result the DfT (b) FCC (Thameslink) 32.1 does not need to claw back payments and there have (c) Intercity West Coast 44.0 been no instances of this happening in the last five years. (d) Greater Western 209.4 (h) East Midlands 25.7 Railways: Franchises (i) LSER (South Eastern) 48.9

Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for The following contracts did not require revenue support: Transport what changes in legislation would be required (a) C2C (Essex Thameside); to allow Network Rail to permanently operate franchised (e) Greater Anglia; rail passenger services. [155142] (f) Northern; and Mr Simon Burns: Network Rail does not operate rail (g) LOM (London Midland). passenger services. It operates the rail network and Please note that more recent figures, for 2012-13, are infrastructure, by maintaining and developing rail tracks, not available yet as we have not reconciled them to the signalling, bridges, tunnels, level crossings, viaducts and statutory accounts for the respective train operating certain stations. companies. 337W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 338W

Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Opportunity to wear own clothes Transport in respect of the current negotiations between Access to private cash his Department and the incumbent franchisee for an Time out of cell for association extended rail passenger service contract for the (a) In addition to the key earnable privileges, establishments Essex Thameside, (b) Thameslink, (c) Inter City West may make other privileges and incentives available to Coast, (d) Great Western, (e) Greater Anglia, (f) suitable prisoners according to local circumstances. Northern, (g) London Midland, (h) East Midlands and (i) South Eastern lines, what assessment he has made of the (i) amount and (ii) duration of revenue Prisons: Mental Health Services support the franchisee will require under the extended contract in each case; and whether the Office for Rail Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Regulation plans to publish this information. [155149] what the cost was of mental health in-reach teams (MHIRTs) in each prison over the last five years; and Mr Simon Burns: In all discussions with incumbent what the health outcomes of MHIRTs for prisoners operators, whether to extend the current franchise or are. [154947] enter into a new directly awarded franchise, the financial position of each franchise will be a key consideration. Norman Lamb: I have been asked to reply on behalf The premium paid to government or subsidy required of the Department of Health. will be published at the time each franchise award is The information requested is not collected centrally. announced, as will the commercial terms of the award, including whether the government retains any revenue Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012 risk. Scotland Hazel Blears: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many contracts for the running of prisons Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for have used the social value clauses in the Public Services Transport what (a) his Department and (b) its non- (Social Value) Act 2012 since that Act came into force. departmental public bodies procured from companies [154114] based in Scotland of a value in excess of £25,000 since May 2010; and what the cost to the public purse was of Jeremy Wright: Given that the Public Services (Social each such procurement contract. [155766] Value) Act 2012 came into force in January 2013 there are no current prisons contracts that contain the social Norman Baker: Neither the Department for Transport value clauses. nor its non-departmental public bodies holds information on what has been procured from companies based in Scotland. Information is not held on the cost to the public purse of each such procurement contract. TREASURY

Bank Notes JUSTICE Mark Tami: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Prisons: Discipline what estimate he has made of how many £5 notes (a) are currently in circulation and (b) were in circulation Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice in each of the previous four years. [155158] what types of rewards are afforded to prisoners; and whether prisons have a minimum criterion for the Sajid Javid: The issue of banknotes is the responsibility requisite level of prisoner behaviour before distribution of the Bank of England. The following table shows the of such rewards. [153962] numbers of £5 notes in circulation, based on Bank of England data. Jeremy Wright: We announced changes to the Incentives and Earned Privileges (IEP) scheme on 30 April. Prisoners Estimated total number of will now have to contribute actively to their own £5 notes in circulation (million) rehabilitation, help others and continue to behave well 2009 260 if they are to earn privileges above the basic level, rather 2010 293 than simply avoiding bad behaviour. Convicted prisoners 2011 327 will have a longer working day and will not be allowed 2012 354 to watch television when they should be engaged in 2013 365 work or other purposeful activity. They will have to earn the right to wear their own clothes and spend Please note that the figure for the number of £5 notes money brought into the prison for them. in 2009 only represents Bank of England notes. Before The key earnable privileges, which must be included 2009, commercial banks in Scotland and Northern in local IEP schemes to the extent deemed appropriate Ireland were not obliged to declare the number of notes for the different privilege levels, are: in circulation by denomination. Extra and improved visits Since 2011, the Bank of England has worked with Eligibility to earn higher rates of pay financial institutions to increase the quantity and quality Access to in-cell television of £5 notes in circulation. 339W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 340W

Financial Services: Regulation Pay

Neil Carmichael: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Priti Patel: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he expects the Financial Conduct Authority to what guidance his Department issues on the actions publish the results of the consultation exercise CP12-19; that would result in the suspension or removal of a and whether he expects venture capital trusts to be bonus payment to an official in his Department; what included within the scope of the new regulations banning the process is for clawing back such bonuses; and on the promotion of unregulated collective investment schemes. how many occasions this has happened in each of the [155140] last five years. [155006]

Sajid Javid: The Financial Conduct Authority has Sajid Javid: Suspension or removal of the bonus may announced that it is minded to explicitly exclude venture take place following disciplinary action on a case by capital trusts from the restrictions on promotion proposed case basis. HM Treasury does not operate a claw back in consultation CP 12-19. The FCA is working toward bonus system. There have been no bonus removals or making a final policy statement in June. suspensions in the last five years.

Fuels: Prices Public Expenditure: Ministry of Defence

Miss McIntosh: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Nicholas Soames: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what assessment he has made of differential fuel pump if he will place in the Library a copy of the current prices in rural areas; and if he will make a statement. financial delegations for the Ministry of Defence. [155012] [155020]

Sajid Javid: The retail price of petrol and diesel is Danny Alexander: As set out in Managing Public affected by a range of factors, and varies across the Money, the Ministry of Defence has delegated authority regions of the UK. to permit expenditure up to an agreed limit, depending Motorists on the Scottish islands and the Isles of on the category of spend, which is reviewed on an Scilly are benefitting from a 5p per litre discount on annual basis. The nature of the delegated control for pump prices since the Government introduced the rural Departments can be found in Annex 2.3 of Managing fuel rebate pilot scheme last year. Public Money via the following link: The Government will consider whether to seek EU http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/mpm_annex2.3.pdf approval for an extension of the scheme to remote parts Delegated authority excludes any novel and contentious of the UK that are likely to display similar cost expenditure for all Departments. characteristics to the islands. Tonnage Tax Individual Savings Accounts John McDonnell: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Chancellor of the what proportion of the UK’s annual (a) imports and Exchequer what estimate his Department has made of (b) exports in each year since 2000-01 were accounted the number of people who have more than (a) £100,000, for by vessels in the tonnage tax scheme. [155243] (b) £500,000 and (c) £1 million in an individual savings account. [155320] Sajid Javid: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave him on 11 July 2012, Official Report, column 221W. Sajid Javid: The information is as follows: (a) An estimated 430,000 individuals had ISA accounts with market values of at least £100,000 in 2010-11, the latest year for which statistical estimates are available. HOME DEPARTMENT (b) (c) Robust estimates of ISA market values above £500,000 is not separately available because of the limitations of the Altaf Hussain statistical sample from which the analysis has been drawn. George Galloway: To ask the Secretary of State for Inflation the Home Department what reports she has received from the Metropolitan Police on recent television Mr Jenkin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer broadcasts made from London by Altaf Hussain; and if he will list the purposes for which his Department if she will make a statement. [155488] uses (a) the retail price index measure of inflation, (b) the consumer price index measure of inflation and James Brokenshire: As with any alleged criminal activity, (c) any alternative measure of inflation. [154968] this is an operational matter for the police. Anybody with information about an individual inciting hatred or Sajid Javid: This information is published alongside violence should report the matter to the police. the Budget each year in Annex A of the ‘Policy Costings’ document. For Budget 13, this is available online via the George Galloway: To ask the Secretary of State for following link: the Home Department what assessment she has made https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ of the recent televisual appearances of Altaf Hussain; attachment_data/file/188367/ and whether these appearances will have any consequence budget2013_policy_costings.pdf.pdf for his citizenship. [155490] 341W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 342W

James Brokenshire: Any alleged criminal activity is Mr Harper: The table shows the total number of an operational matter for the police. Anybody with asylum applications received in each of the last five information about an individual inciting hatred or violence years, and what proportion of asylum applicants are should report the matter to the police. estimated to have been (i) granted asylum, (ii) granted Considerations in relation to citizenship are undertaken humanitarian protection or discretionary leave, (iii) refusals, by the Immigration Enforcement Directorate. The British and (iv) cases where a decision was not known for the Nationality Act (1981) (as amended by the Immigration, years 2007 to 2011, as at May 2012 when the statistics Asylum and Nationality Act 2006) allows for an individual were compiled. Figures relate to main applicants only, to be deprived of their British citizenship by the Secretary and include the outcome of appeals. of State for the Home Department if it is considered Figures for 2012 will be published in the Immigration conducive to the public good to do so or where deception Statistics April to June 2013 release on 29 August 2013. has occurred in the acquisition of the citizenship. The data presented above, are published in table as.06 Asylum (Asylum data tables Volume 2) of Immigration Statistics. The latest release Immigration Statistics October to Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for December 2012 is available in the Library of the House the Home Department what proportion of asylum and from the Home Office Science website at: applicants were granted (a) asylum or humanitarian http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research- protection and (b) neither in each of the last five years. statistics/research-statistics/immigration-asylum-research/ [155567] immigration-q4-2012/

Table 1: Estimated outcome analysis of asylum applications, as at May 2012 Grants of asylum as Grants of HP/DL as Refusals as a Cases decision not known Total main a percentage of a percentage of percentage of as a percentage of Year of application1 applicants applications applications2 applications applications3

2007 23,431 25 10 60 4 2008 25,932 27 11 58 4 2009 24,487 28 11 58 3 2010 17,916 28 9 60 3 2011 19,865 30 7 50 13 1 Year relates to the period in which the application was made; the actual initial decision and/or appeal may have occurred in a different year. 2 HP = Humanitarian protection DL =Discretionary Leave. Figures shown include grants of Discretionary Leave. 3 ‘Cases with decision not known’ reflect that no confirmation of a decision on the case/appeal had been received when the statistics were compiled on 7 May 2012. Note: Provisional data.

Entry Clearances: China Members: Correspondence

Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State Department what provision for biometric facilities there for the Home Department when she plans to reply to is in China for Chinese nationals applying for a visa to the letter to her dated 2 April 2013 from the right visit the UK. [155483] hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton with regard to Mr T.N. Tchinda. [155631] Mr Harper: There are 12 visa application centres in mainland China where applicants make their visa Mr Harper: I wrote to the right hon. Member on application—including enrolling their biometric 14 May 2013. information. They are located in the following cities: Plants: Imports Beijing, Wuhan, Shenyang, Jinan, Chongqing, Fuzhou, Chengdu, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Guangzhou and Shenzhen. These are managed by our commercial Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for the partner, VFS Global. We also have a visa application Home Department how many UK Border Agency staff centre in Hong Kong, which is operated by the Home have the expertise to identify exotic diseases on imported Office out of the consulate general in Hong Kong. plant material entering the UK. [155664] Mr Harper: Border Force staff do not have the expertise Entry Clearances: India to identify exotic diseases on imported plant material. The Food and Environment Research Agency (an agency Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the of DEFRA) has overall responsibility for inspectorate Home Department when she expects the same-day functions in relation to plant heath. business visa service for Indian nationals announced by the Prime Minister in February 2013 to be introduced. Police: Festivals and Special Occasions [155481] Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Harper: The same-day visa service for India was Home Department what recent changes have been launched on 14 May 2013, and went live on 15 May made to national guidance on the charges levied for the 2013. The service is available in New Delhi and Mumbai. policing of (a) festivals with up to 5,000 attendees, 343W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 344W

(b) festivals with between 5,000 and 12,000 attendees Miss Chloe Smith [holding answer 14 May 2013]: and (c) festivals with more than 12,000 attendees. The Government announced its transparency policy for [155026] major projects data 25 February 2013. Further details can be found here: Damian Green: The guidance produced by the Home http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/psr_treasury_minutes.htm Office in relation to charging for special police services can be found in a Home Office circular 009/2011 which Inflation is available on the National Archives website at: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk Mr Jenkin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office This guidance was last updated in August 2011. if he will list the purposes for which his Department uses (a) the retail price index measure of inflation, (b) Unmanned Air Vehicles the consumer price index measure of inflation and (c) any alternative measure of inflation. [155050] Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what plans she has to authorise Mr Maude: This information is published alongside the use of unmanned aerial vehicles for intelligence the Budget each year in Annex A of the Policy Costings gathering by UK law enforcement agencies; and if she document. will make a statement. [155035] For Budget 13, this is available online via the following link: Damian Green: Use of unmanned aerial vehicles would https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ need to comply with existing Civil Aviation Authority attachment_data/file/188367/ regulations. Covert use by a public authority likely to budget2013_policy_costings.pdf.pdf obtain private information, including by any law enforcement agency, would be subject to authorisation Internet under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. That Act requires that covert investigatory techniques Chi Onwurah: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet are used only if they are necessary and proportionate Office what discussions he has had with interested for purposes such as preventing or detecting crime or in parties on IP address transparency. [154690] the interests of national security. It makes deployment subject to independent overview, inspection and right to James Brokenshire [holding answer 13 May 2013]: I redress in case of individual complaint. Any overt use have been asked to reply on behalf of the Home of a surveillance camera system in a public place in Department. England or Wales will be subject to a new code of Home Office Ministers have meetings with a variety practice prepared under the Protection of Freedoms of organisations and individuals, as part of the process Act 2012, on which the Home Office is currently considering of policy development and delivery. Details of these its response to statutory consultation. meetings are published on the Cabinet Office website on a quarterly basis. Migration CABINET OFFICE Cabinet Nicholas Soames: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office when the Office for National Statistics will issue Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Minister for the revised Long Term International Migration Statistics Cabinet Office what the cost was of the extension of the for the period between the 2001 and 2011 censuses in size of the table at which the Cabinet meets. [155318] line with its revised annual population estimates. [155574] Mr Maude: In line with the practice of previous Administrations, running costs of No. 10 are published Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the in the Cabinet Office annual accounts. responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Equal Opportunities Letter from Glen Watson, dated May 2013: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics Philip Davies: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet (ONS), I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question Office what outcome his Department seeks in order to asking the Minister for the Cabinet Office when the Office for meet its commitment to developing a workforce that is National Statistics will issue revised Long Term International representative of the population it serves. [155528] Migration Statistics for the period between the 2001 and the 2011 censuses in line with its revised annual population estimates Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office is committed to [155574] developing a workforce that best meets the needs of the The results of the 2011 Census enabled ONS to compare the population. census estimates with the mid-year population estimates. The population estimates use long-term international migration data High Speed 2 Railway Line as a component of the estimate. The comparison with census estimates led to revisions to the rolled forward mid-year population estimates from the year to mid-2002 to the year to mid-2010. This Mrs Gillan: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet included a revision to the net migration component, focussed on Office if he will publish the full Major Projects Authority the middle part of the decade before improvements were made to report into High Speed 2 which carries a red/amber the International Passenger Survey in 2009. This provides a classification. [154908] revised series of net migration for the inter-censal period. 345W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 346W

Revised net migration figures published as components of Publications change in revised population estimates can be found in table 10 at the following link: Ann McKechin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pop-estimate/population- estimates-for-england-and-wales/mid-2002-to-mid-2010- Office how much his Department spent on subscriptions revised--subnational-/rft---mid-2002-to-mid-2010-revised- to academic journals published by (a) Reed-Elsevier, tables.zip (b) Wiley-Blackwell, (c) Springer and (d) any other academic publisher in each of the last five years. Ministerial Policy Advisers: Vetting [154488] Mr Maude: The information requested is not readily Mr Watson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet available and could be obtained only at disproportionate Office how many candidates for special adviser posts cost. have not been appointed because they have not received As part of the Department’s transparency programme, security clearance since May 2010; how many special it has been Cabinet Office policy since January 2011 to advisers have had their security clearance (a) withdrawn publish details of all contracts with a value of £10,000 or (b) suspended since May 2010; and if he will make a or more on Contracts Finder: statement. [155484] www.gov.uk/contracts-finder Mr Maude: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I In addition, this policy extends to Cabinet Office gave on 14 May 2013, Official Report, column 138W. expenditure over £25,000, which is published at: www.gov.uk/government/publications/cabinet-office-spend- Pay data Railway Stations: Crime Priti Patel: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what guidance his Department issues on the actions John Woodcock: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet that would result in the suspension or removal of a Office how many criminal offences were recorded at bonus payment to an official in his Department; what (a) Barrow and Furness, (b) Roose, (c) Dalton-in- the process is for clawing back such bonuses; and on Furness and (d) Ulverston railway station, by category how many occasions this has happened in each of the of offence in each of the last five years. [155663] last five years. [154991] Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office only awards bonuses responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have to our highest performing members of staff for their asked the authority to reply. performance over the previous reporting year and a Letter from Glen Watson, dated May 2013: rigorous moderation process is undertaken to decide who is awarded a bonus. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics (ONS), I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question We have not removed bonuses from any official over asking how many criminal offences were recorded at (a) Barrow the past five years. and Furness, (b) Roose, (c) Dalton-in-Furness and (d) Ulverston Since 2010-11 the Government has restricted performance railway station, by category of offence in each of the last five years [155663] related payments for senior civil servants to the top 25% of performers (down from 65% before the last general Unfortunately it is not possible for ONS to provide the requested data. ONS does not hold information for crimes recorded at election). individual railway stations. Information relating to incidents at railway stations is collected by the British Transport Police which Press are provided to ONS as a composite figure for British Transport Police as a whole, broken down by specific crime types. Mr Burley: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office (1) if the Permanent Secretary of his Department has held any (a) briefing sessions, (b) private meetings and CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT (c) lunches or dinners with journalists and newspaper editors when he or Ministers in his Department were Health Education: Sex not present in the last year; [155082] (2) what meetings have been held between the Andrea Leadsom: To ask the Secretary of State for (a) Cabinet Secretary, (b) Head of the Civil Service or Culture, Media and Sport with reference to the answer (c) Cabinet Office Permanent Secretary and any of 23 April 2013, Official Report, column 827W, on newspaper journalist or editor in the last year. [155083] health education: sex, when the Government plans to announce its response to the consultation on changing Mr Maude: Details of hospitality received and meetings the exemption of educational DVDs from BBFC age held by the Cabinet Secretary, the Head of the Civil ratings. [155578] Service and the Cabinet Office Permanent Secretary with external organisations, including media proprietors, Mr Vaizey: DCMS has been consulting on the editors and senior executives, are published on a quarterly exemptions from age rating in the Video Recordings basis and can be accessed on gov.uk at: Act that apply to many music, sports, religious and https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cabinet-office- educational DVDs. The Government expects to publish permanent-secretaries-meetings-with-external-organisations- its response to the consultation shortly, though a specific 2012 date for this has not yet been set. 347W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 348W

Inflation Miss Chloe Smith: Returning Officers collect information about the number of ballot papers issued and forward it Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, to the Electoral Commission. The Electoral Commission Media and Sport if she will list the purposes for which collates that data and produces turnout figures for each her Department uses (a) the retail price index measure electoral area as well as an overall turnout figure. of inflation, (b) the consumer price index measure of While figures for the May 2013 local elections are not inflation and (c) any alternative measure of inflation. yet available, I understand that the Electoral Commission [154981] plans to publish information on turnout once all this data has been received and collated. The Government Hugh Robertson: The Department for Culture, Media has not made a separate assessment. and Sport uses the retail prices index measure of inflation in some of its procurement contracts that have an annual uplift, which is RPI based. The Department may also, on occasion, use other measures of inflation WORK AND PENSIONS as required for accounting adjustments or budget planning. Pay Buildings

Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Media and Sport what guidance her Department issues and Pensions what the total running costs were for each on the actions that would result in the suspension or building used, owned or rented in central London by removal of a bonus payment to an official in her his Department, its agencies and non-departmental Department; what the process is for clawing back such public bodies, other than buildings such as job centres bonuses; and on how many occasions this has intended to be used primarily for meetings with happened in each of the last five years. [154993] members of the public, in each of the last three financial years. [154244] Hugh Robertson: The Department for Culture, Media and Sport’s current Conduct and Discipline Policy explicitly Mr Hoban: The total running costs for eight central lists the withdrawal or withholding of pay increases London buildings, as requested above, are: and/or bonus payments (in whole or in part) as one of the penalties available to a disciplinary panel, for a £ proven charge of serious or gross misconduct. Building Status 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13

DCMS has not removed or suspended such payment The Adelphi Vacated 12,925,411 13,782,576 3,626,309 in the last five years. June 2012 New Court Vacated 220,166 270,979 0 S4C March 2012 Caxton — 17,466,823 18,695,525 19,506,509 Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, House Media and Sport if she will (a) review the financial Rose Court — 1,159,839 1,317,890 1,276,026 position of S4C and (b) institute a fixed funding Welbeck Vacated 2,878,577 3,103,072 0.00 formula for that channel to facilitate greater stability in Street March 2012 financial planning. [154804] Sanctuary Vacated 277,525 285,458 160,533 Buildings December Mr Vaizey: Government funding of S4C will be reviewed 2012 as part of the spending review. There are no plans to Total — 34,928,341 37,455,500 24,569,377 review the financial position of S4C or to institute a Occupation in London has been reduced as part of fixed funding formula for that channel. We recognise our ongoing Estates Rationalisation Programme. the important contribution that S4C makes to public service broadcasting and the welsh language and the The information for non-departmental public bodies desire for it to be on a stable financial footing. We cannot be supplied as it is not held centrally. welcome the agreement with the BBC which took effect from April 2013, meaning that the BBC became S4C’s Employment Schemes: Young People majority funder and has already committed to funding S4C until the end of the current charter and licence fee Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Work period in 2016-17. The BBC will conduct a review of and Pensions (1) when statistics for the Youth Contract S4C strategy and finances by the end of 2014-15. wage subsidy scheme will be released; [155473] (2) how many employers have received wage subsidy payments under the Youth Contract since April 2012. DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER [155478]

Local Government: Elections Mr Hoban: In most cases the wage incentive element of the Youth Contract is paid after a young person has John Woodcock: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister been in work continuously for 26 weeks. Following the what assessment he has made of the levels of turnout collection and quality assurance of this data, the first of electors voting (a) by post and (b) in person at the set of Official Statistics on the wage incentive should be 2013 county council elections. [155657] available in the next few months. 349W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 350W

The Department is working to guidelines set by the for which he is responsible has allocated to the London UK Statistics Authority to ensure we publish statistics borough of Enfield local authority in each of the last that meet high quality standards at the earliest opportunity. five years. [154522]

Enfield Mr Hoban: The funding allocated by the Department to the London borough of Enfield local authority in Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for Work each of the last five financial years is detailed in the and Pensions how much funding (a) his Department following table. There was no funding allocated from and (b) each of the non-departmental public bodies any of our non-departmental public bodies.

£ 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13

Housing/council tax benefit subsidy 221,403,775 257,934,959 289,960,973 309,600,539 324,632,319 Housing/council tax benefit administration 3,469,084 3,926,685 3,499,520 3,450,643 3,447,359 Additional funding elements towards administering — 6,315 69,254.60 263,064.58 147,626.24 housing/council tax benefit Discretionary housing payments 146,587 179,013 147,468 186,280 816,298 Local welfare provision set up ————9,107

Homelessness Jobseeker’s Allowance

Sarah Champion: To ask the Secretary of State for Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Work and Pensions if he will work with homelessness and Pensions what the average length of time taken to organisations to assess the effectiveness of the toolkit assess a claim for jobseeker’s allowance is in (a) Barnsley for identification of homelessness by Jobcentre Plus Central constituency, (b) South Yorkshire and (c) advisers. [155973] England. [155564]

(a) Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Hoban: The information requested for and (b) Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of the is not available in the format required. effectiveness of the toolkit for identifying homelessness The actual average clearance time for processing a used by Jobcentre Plus advisors. [156144] jobseeker’s allowance claim nationally during 2012-13 was 9.74 days. Mr Hoban: There is no specific toolkit for the identification of homelessness. However, Jobcentre Plus Jobseeker’s Allowance: Croydon advisers are equipped with the necessary guidance and training to identify and provide an appropriate level of Mr Steve Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for tailored support for the homeless, as well as other Work and Pensions how many people aged 18 to 24 years disadvantaged groups. As a priority group, the homeless old in Croydon North constituency had been claiming are able to access additional support through Jobcentre jobseeker’s allowance for more than 12 months in the Plus advisers to enter employment, including early access most recent month for which figures are available; what to the Work programme. The guidance which supports that figure is as a percentage of (a) all jobseeker’s Jobcentre Plus advisers is subject to regular review to allowance claimants aged 18 to 24 years old and (b) the ensure its effectiveness for helping to tackle homelessness 18 to 24 years old workforce; and what the change in and the barriers it creates to employment. these figures has been in the last year for which figures are available. [155555]

Innovation Fund: Scotland Mr Hoban: The information for those people in Croydon North parliamentary constituency is shown in the following table: Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many people in Scotland have Croydon North parliamentary constituency been supported by the Innovation Fund; and how April April many such people have gone on to (a) full-time and 2012 2013 (b) part-time employment following participation in Aged 18-24 claiming JSA over 125 140 the scheme. [155683] 12 months (a) All those claiming JSA aged 18-24 1,290 1,005 Mr Hoban: The information is not readily available (a) Aged 18-24 claiming JSA over 9.7 13.9 12 months as a % of all aged 18-24 and has not previously been published as official statistics. claiming JSA We will consider whether it is feasible to produce the (b) mid 2011 population estimate for —— statistics requested within the disproportionate cost people aged 18-24 is 12,894 limit, and if so, will issue them in an official statistics (b) Aged 18-24 claiming JSA over 1.0 1.1 release in accordance with the Code of Practice for 12 months as a % of the population Official Statistics. aged 18-24 351W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 352W

Notes: unless the customer does not have a national insurance 1. Claimant figures are rounded to the nearest 5, percentages to one number in which case TV Licensing will contact them decimal place. 2. Caseload data is published here and April 2013 is the latest to confirm their circumstances have not changed each available: year. https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/Default.asp TV Licensing has no record of any over 75 TV licence 3. Percentages are calculated using ONS Mid-Term population estimates holders having returned the cash value of their TV from the relevant parliamentary constituency which are available here: licence in any of the last three years nor are they aware http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/about-ons/what-we-do/publication- of any over 75 TV licence holders having made contact scheme/published-ad-hoc-data/population/september-2012/mid- requesting to return the cash value of their TV licence 2006-to-mid-2010-parliamentary-constituencies-population- in the same period. estimates-by-single-year-of-age.zip Source: The concessionary travel benefit is optional. An eligible 100% Count of unemployment-related benefits, Jobcentre Plus computer person can choose not to take up the entitlement. The systems and ONS Mid-Term population estimates 2010. National Travel Survey 2011 shows that in GB, 79% of Pay people eligible for an older persons’ bus pass held one. Figures on the take-up of concessionary travel schemes Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Work in GB are available online and can be found here: and Pensions what guidance his Department issues on https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts06- the actions that would result in the suspension or removal age-gender-and-modal-breakdown of a bonus payment to an official in his Department; Personal Independence Payment what the process is for clawing back such bonuses; and on how many occasions this has happened in each of Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work the last five years. [155008] and Pensions what (a) cost savings will be made and (b) benefits for the claimant will result from reassessing Mr Hoban: The Department for Work and Pensions personal independence payment claimants who have a (DWP) has two schemes for rewarding good performance: degenerative illness. [155206] end-of-year non-consolidated performance payments; and in-year awards. Esther McVey: Overall spending on personal The Department uses these payments to motivate independence payment and disability living allowance and engage employees and ensure added value to business in 2015-16 is forecast to be £13.8 billion in real terms, performance. spending on disability living allowance was £12.5 billion These schemes award cash or vouchers to individuals in 2009-10. who have performed well throughout the previous year The benefit expenditure forecast is here: or have carried out a specific piece of work during the http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd4/ year to a high standard. As the awards are based on expenditure_tables_Budget_2013.xls#’DisabilityBenefits’!A1 past performance, it would not be applicable to suspend It is not possible to breakdown the costs or savings or remove such a payment. relating to the reassessment of personal independence The Department has a process in place to recover payment (PIP) claimants who have particular types of administrative errors. impairment or health condition. Under disability living allowance (DLA) there is no Pensioners systematic award review mechanism. Over 70% of the current DLA caseload has an indefinite award, meaning Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State that individuals’ awards may continue for life without for Work and Pensions (1) many pensioners have returned ever being checked to see if it still reflects their needs. to the Exchequer the cash value of their (a) winter fuel With PIP we want to ensure that everybody continues allowance, (b) free television licence and (c) free bus to receive the correct level of award and support. People’s pass in each of the last three years; and what the total needs can increase or decrease over time. Therefore amount is that has been reimbursed to the Exchequer most PIP awards will be reviewed at appropriate intervals. for each such benefit in the last three years; [155319] Ongoing awards can be used in cases where changes, (2) how many people have contacted his Department either positive or negative, are unlikely. These may be requesting to return to the Exchequer the cash value of reviewed periodically, but it is unlikely that these claimants their (a) winter fuel allowance, (b) free television would be invited for a face-to-face consultation. By licence and (c) free bus pass in each of the last three reviewing PIP awards we are recognising that people’s years. [155323] needs may change gradually over time, and that these changes can sometimes happen so gradually that the Steve Webb: The information requested is not available. individual may not notice. Each winter around 12 million customers receive a Scotland winter fuel payment, over 95% of these are paid automatically without the need to claim. Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for The Department does not keep a record of winter Work and Pensions what (a) his Department and (b) fuel payments returned to the Department. its non-departmental public bodies procured from Anyone aged 75 or over is entitled to a free TV companies based in Scotland of a value in excess of Licence for their main address. The free licence is not £25,000 since May 2010; and what the cost to the issued automatically and needs to be applied for. Once public purse was of each such procurement contract. issued, licences are renewed automatically every year [155687] 353W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 354W

Mr Hoban: To obtain all the information to answer As a consequence of customer feedback and analysis, this question would incur disproportionate cost. the current Tactical e-Service (TeS), introduced in 2006, Since January 2011, central government departments is no longer compatible with many browsers and operating have been required to publish on Contracts Finder systems and is deemed to be too unreliable and problematic information on the contracts they award: to offer reasonable customer service. As the IT platform https://online.contractsfinder.businesslink.gov.uk/ is outdated, it is not feasible to upgrade the existing service. Digital Services Division (DSD) are therefore In addition, Departments publish details of spend in proceeding with decommissioning TeS and developing excess of £25,000. a business case to demonstrate the financial viability of new replacement services. The new services would be Social Security Benefits based on the Government Digital Service approved approach which is being trialled using carers allowance Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for and personal independence payment. The business case Work and Pensions how many people have entered proposal will be reviewed in June. If viable, we would employment as a result of the application of the benefit seek to develop the new services as soon as is practical cap; and if he will make a statement. [155492] after those dates.

Mr Hoban: The benefit cap was introduced in four Telephone Services London boroughs (Bromley, Croydon, Enfield and Haringey) from 15 April 2013 and statistics on numbers Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work impacted are not yet available. However, the April 2013 and Pensions what the (a) target set and (b) rate of publication ″Ad hoc statistics on Jobcentre Plus Activity achievement is for response to call back telephone calls regarding claimants who have been identified as potentially for his Department’s call centres. [155269] impacted by the benefit cap″ reported that 8,000 claimants in households that may be subject to the cap have Mr Hoban: For working age claimants, the target is moved into work. for 95% of call backs to be completed within three Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for hours following handover from the initial point of Work and Pensions how many calls to the helpline for contact. existing benefit recipients have been declined on security Over the course of the 2012-13 reporting year, 91.8% grounds since the introduction of new security checks. of callbacks were cleared within the prescribed time [155579] frame. During the month of April 2013, the achievement was 95.8%. Mr Hoban: Since the launch of the telephony and Child Maintenance Group has an internal target to identification verification (T-IDV) process in November complete all call backs within 24 hours. Over the course 2011 and up to 10 May 2013, a total of 1,068,079 calls of the 2012-13 reporting year, 99.25% of calls were to the DWP Enquire Service have resulted in failed completed within that time scale. security questions, preventing access to benefit related information. Unemployment Benefits: Croydon This is the final stage of the T-IDV process and, at this point, the customer will have already failed to Mr Steve Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for satisfactorily answer automated security questions and Work and Pensions how many (a) men and (b) women agent-led security questions (both based on memorable were claiming out-of-work benefits in Croydon North information previously entered by the customer), constituency in the most recent month for which figures representing a progressively increasing proportion of are available; and what the figures are for the same total inquiry calls. month in (i) 2010, (ii) 2011 and (iii) 2012. [155554] Comparable data is not available for the other enquiry service lines, as T-IDV is not used on other inquiry Mr Hoban: Statistics on the number of people in lines. However, T-IDV volumes have increased, progressively, Croydon North constituency who were receiving out-of- in line with Enquire rollout, accounting for an increasing work benefits in November 2010, November 2011 and proportion of total primary benefit inquiries. November 2012 by gender is shown in the following The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) takes table. identify verification very seriously and, when appropriate, Number of out-of-work benefit claimants in Croydon North we need to ensure that the person that we are speaking parliamentary constituency by statistical group and gender: November to is who they claim to be. This helps us to ensure that 2010, November 2011 and November 2012 departmental records are protected, a claimant’s personal Statistical group/ November November November details are as secure as possible and that identify fraud gender 2010 2011 2012 is prevented. Jobseeker’s Lorely Burt: To ask the Secretary of State for Work allowance and Pensions what steps he is taking to review the Total 4,400 5,240 4,820 online application process for claiming (a) attendance Female 1,540 1,950 1,940 allowance, (b) disability living allowance and (c) the Male 2,860 3,290 2,870 overseas state pension. [155672] Incapacity Mr Hoban: Online applications for attendance allowance, benefits disability living allowance and overseas state pension Total 5,550 5,660 5,830 are currently made using the Tactical e-Service platform. Female 2,400 2,490 2,620 355W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 356W

Number of out-of-work benefit claimants in Croydon North Mr Hoban: In December 2012, DWP published a parliamentary constituency by statistical group and gender: November document setting out the broad approach to universal 2010, November 2011 and November 2012 credit evaluation: Statistical group/ November November November gender 2010 2011 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ attachment_data/file/180879/universal-credit-evaluation- Male 3,150 3,160 3,210 framework.pdf Plans for the evaluation are wide-ranging, employing Lone parents a number of different approaches over the lifetime of Total 2,760 2,480 2,090 the policy. These range from ongoing monitoring, “live Female 2,620 2,380 2,020 running reviews”of implementation and delivery, through Male 140 100 70 to longer term analysis of the outcomes and impacts for different groups of claimants.

Carers Where possible, DWP will undertake specific sub-group analysis looking at the experiences of different groups Total 240 260 290 of claimants such as disabled people and low income Female 130 140 160 households. Drawing on existing data sources such as Male 100 110 120 HBAI (households below average income) and primary evidence emerging from the evaluation, we will analyse Other income changes in labour market participation; improvements related benefits to in-work progression; increased self-sufficiency and Total 480 400 350 reductions in poverty. Female 240 210 190 We have recently run a consultation of statistics on Male 240 190 160 universal credit and other welfare reform changes. We Notes: will publish our proposed publication strategy for universal 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Totals may not sum due to rounding. credit in the next couple of months. 2. Statistical group is a hierarchical variable. A person who fits into more than one category will only appear in the top-most one for Universal Credit: Gloucestershire which they are eligible. 3. Out of work benefits which are included in this analysis are: Jobseeker’s allowance Richard Graham: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Employment and support allowance and Pensions when benefit claimants in Gloucestershire Incapacity benefit and severe disablement allowance will be transferred to universal credit. [155758] Income support. 4. Incapacity benefit was replaced by employment and support allowance (ESA) for new claims from October 2008. Mr Hoban: Decisions on the timing of the roll-out of 5. November 2012 is the latest data available. universal credit in Gloucestershire have not yet been Source: finalised. DWP Information, Governance and Security Directorate: Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study. Vacancies: Internet

Universal Credit Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many vacancies have been posted on Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Universal Jobmatch to date; and how many job outcomes Work and Pensions how many people are in receipt of have been achieved through that system. [155485] universal credit. [155486] Mr Hoban: The number of new job vacancies posted on Universal Jobmatch between its inception on Mr Hoban: I refer the right hon. Gentleman to the 19 November 2012 and 30 April 2013 is 1,668,745. Data reply I provided him with on 13 May 2013, Official regarding the number of job outcomes that have been Report, column 69W,on how many people have claimed achieved through the Universal Jobmatch service are universal credit in the pathfinder to date. The Department not collected, and so it is not possible to provide this. is working to guidelines set by the UK Statistics Authority to ensure we are able to publish statistics that meet high Work Capability Assessment quality standards at the earliest opportunity. We intend to publish Official Statistics on pathfinder areas in autumn 2013 and on nationally implemented universal Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for credit from autumn 2014. Work and Pensions what assessment his Department has made of the reasons why people who apply for We expect around 7,000 claims to be processed during employment and support allowance do not subsequently the pathfinder. attend a work capability assessment; and if he will make a statement. [155487] Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what evaluation he has set in place to Mr Hoban: When a claimant fails to attend a work assess the effect on (a) lifting people out of poverty and capability assessment, they are asked to provide their (b) claimants of disablement benefits, of the introduction reasons for non-attendance. The reasons for non-attendance of the universal credit social benefit scheme; and over are individual to that person and the Department for what time periods he plans to report to Parliament its Work and Pensions (DWP) decision maker will make a impact on the poorest people. [155508] decision (in accordance with current social security 357W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 358W legislation) to determine if the reason for non-attendance focus on the harder to help such as claimants who are is sufficient to allow good cause and refer for another homeless. It will also explore best practice for minimum assessment to be arranged. service levels, to ensure that they are transparent and The Department does not compile or publish statistics measurable. on the reasons why people do not attend their assessment. Work Programme ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what support he has put in place for those Climate Change: Curriculum people who will complete two years on the Work programme without having achieved a job sustainment. Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for [155474] Energy and Climate Change whether he has made an assessment of the proposal by the Department for Mr Hoban: I refer the right hon. Member to the reply Education to remove climate change from the national I gave previously to the hon. Member for Coventry curriculum guidelines for key stages one to three. South (Mr Cunningham) on 12 March 2013, Official [154370] Report, column 206W (PQ 147545). Gregory Barker: The Secretary of State for Energy Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for and Climate Change, the right hon. Member for Kingston Work and Pensions how much his Department has and Surbiton (Mr Davey), has made such an assessment spent on the Work Programme in (a) 2011-12, (b) and has written to the Secretary of State for Education, 2012-13 and (c) 2013-14 to date. [155581] my right hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), expressing his support for climate change Mr Hoban: The total paid to Work Programme Providers remaining an explicit feature of the Geography curriculum, in the UK is £377.9 million from the start of the as well as in the Science curriculum. programme through to 30 July 2012, ie the period covered by the last Statistical Release. Further information Fracking on spend up to the end of March 2013 is scheduled to be available to coincide with the next planned Statistical Release on 27 June 2013. Dan Byles: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has made of Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for the total UK onshore shale gas resource; and when he Work and Pensions (1) if he will strengthen the minimum plans to publish the recent report on shale gas service standards for the Work programme to better resources produced by the British Geological Survey. improve the experience of homeless people who use the [154386] service; [156143] Michael Fallon: We are working with the British (2) what steps he is taking to improve job outcomes Geological Survey on a study to assess the volume of for homeless people in the Work programme. [156145] shale gas in place (ie the resource as distinct from the proportion which might be economic to produce) in Sarah Champion: To ask the Secretary of State for the Bowland Shale of northern England. I expect that Work and Pensions (1) if he will strengthen the minimum the report will be published this summer. With regard to service standards for the Work programme to better the total UK shale resource, further studies looking at improve the experience of homeless people who use the other UK shale deposits will be required. service; [155975] (2) what steps he plans to take to improve job Fuel Poverty outcomes for homeless people in the Work programme. [155974] Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change with reference to the answer of Mr Hoban: Providers set out their minimum service 26 March 2013, Official Report, columns 1058-60W, on standards as part of their bids for Work programme fuel poverty, what the time lag was for reporting of contracts. These standards have been published and data in each year; and when he expects figures for (a) providers must make them clear to all participants 2010-11, (b) 2011-12 and (c) 2012-13 to be available. when they join the Work programme. The Department for Work and Pensions carries out regular compliance [155763] checks to ensure these standards are being met. Gregory Barker: The first separate statistical report If a participant is concerned that their provider is not on fuel poverty in England (and overall for the UK) was meeting their minimum service standards, then they are published in 2009, for 2007 data. Prior to that, fuel able to raise the issue with their provider. If the participant poverty statistics were covered in the annual report on is not satisfied with their provider’s response, they are progress on the fuel poverty strategy. Fuel poverty then able to escalate the complaint to the Independent statistics gained National Statistics accreditation in 2011. Case Examiner. The dates of publication and period covered for the I have also set up the Work Programme: Building statistics reports are given in the table, which show that Best Practice group, which is independently chaired by we have improved the timeliness in reporting these Andrew Sells. This group will set up a framework to statistics, and will continue to seek further improvements promote the sharing of best practice, with a particular in due course. 359W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 360W

Michael Fallon: The Department has received no Fuel poverty report Publication date Data period specific communication from the Office for Nuclear Annual Report on Fuel Poverty October 2009 2006-07 Regulation on transport safety and security issues created Statistics 2009 by geographically dispersed interim stores and final Annual Report on Fuel Poverty October 2010 2007-08 disposal repositories for radioactive waste outside Cumbria Statistics 2010 since May 2010. However, my officials regularly liaise Annual Report on Fuel Poverty July 2011 2008-09 on these topics in the round, as well as receiving periodic Statistics 2011 reports from the ONR covering the range of its regulatory Annual Report on Fuel Poverty May 2012 2009-10 responsibilities. Statistics 2012 Annual Report on Fuel Poverty May 2013 2010-11 Statistics 2013 Renewable Energy

Future publication dates of fuel poverty data for Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy England are yet to be announced, but are currently and Climate Change what assessment he has made of anticipated to be around: the effects of electricity market reform on community May 2014, covering the data period 2011-12; and co-operative energy projects. [155307] May 2015, covering the data period 2012-13. Fuel poverty in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland Gregory Barker [holding answer 15 May 2013]: The is a devolved matter. Government is committed to driving and supporting an ambitious level of investment by independent generators, Green Deal Scheme including community energy and co-operatives. Independent developers have played an important role in delivering new capacity, and we expect them to continue to make a Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for material contribution to delivering investment and meeting Energy and Climate Change what steps he is taking to our objectives of keeping energy prices affordable and ensure that small construction companies are able to supplies secure as we decarbonise. Accordingly, the access work contracts to deliver the Green Deal. Government is working to ensure that the electricity [156065] market reform proposals support independent generation. Gregory Barker: Small- and medium-sized enterprises The contracts for difference proposed in the Energy (SMEs) will play a key role in delivering the Green Bill will remove wholesale price risk and consequently Deal. A number of business models are starting to improve conditions in the market for long-term power emerge in the market that allows them to use their local purchase agreements needed by many independent low knowledge to provide a vital link between potential carbon developers to secure project finance. customers and the Green Deal. Further, we are taking powers in the Energy Bill to We would expect to see most SME participation in give Government the flexibility to support the availability the Green Deal to be in the role of advisers and installers, of viable power purchase agreements for independent but the policy and legislative framework also enables generators, should the market not develop as expected. SMEs to become Green Deal providers. Scotland Plutonium Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Energy and Climate Change what (a) his Department and Climate Change with reference to paragraph 31 of and (b) its non-departmental public bodies procured page 14 of his Department’s consultation on the from companies based in Scotland of a value in excess Management of the UK’s Plutonium Stock, published of £25,000 since May 2010; and what the cost to the on 28 May 2012, if he will set out the criteria he intends public purse was of each such procurement contract. to use when judging whether to publish applications in [155767] redacted form made under the Justification Process on the re-use of plutonium. [155645] Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and Climate Change does not record this information centrally Michael Fallon: While it is our intention that applications and would be available only at disproportionate cost. will be published, each will need to be considered on a The Department would be able to provide further contract case by case basis against the Freedom of Information information by narrowing the scope, if specific procurement Act 2000 and the Environmental Information Regulations projects were identified. 2004 in order to determine whether information included in the application should be withheld.

Radioactive Waste BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS

Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Aerospace Technology Institute and Climate Change what communications his Department has received from the Office for Nuclear Regulation on Jack Lopresti: To ask the Secretary of State for (a) transport safety and (b) security issues created by Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what advice his geographically dispersed (i) interim stores and (ii) final Department has issued to the Aerospace Growth disposal repositories for radioactive waste outside Cumbria Partnership’s working group examining the location of since May 2010. [155268] the proposed Aerospace Technology Institute; [154893] 361W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 362W

(2) when he expects to announce the location of the Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for proposed Aerospace Technology Institute; [154894] Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to the (3) what recent representations he has received on Insolvency Service annual report 2009-10 and 2010-11, the location of the proposed Aerospace Technology what the threshold is for a bankruptcy case to be Institute. [154895] recorded as having few or little assets. [155586]

Michael Fallon: As set out in the Aerospace Industrial Jo Swinson: The Insolvency Service annual reports Strategy, the Aerospace Technology Institute (ATI) will for 2009-10 and 2010-11 referred to cases having few or consist of a small core team—probably 30 to 50 staff— little assets. Those are cases where there were insufficient primarily seconded from industry and academia. The assets to cover the official receiver’s case administration research and technology programmes funded under the fee after the petition deposit had been received. ATI programme will be carried out as collaborative This would be as follows: projects including a wide range of industrial and academic partners at a range of locations across the UK. Filton is £ an area with strong aerospace capabilities and I would In cases where In cases where anticipate that a number of companies with a presence debtors present their creditors present the in the area will be involved in these programmes. own petition petition The ATI is jointly funded by business and Government 2009-10 1,355 1,285 and we are working closely together on a range of 2010-11 1,265 1,115 implementation issues including location. We have received a number of representations on the possible location of the ATI. We are examining these alongside the other EU External Trade: USA factors that will help ensure that the ATI achieves maximum impact. Following the publication of the Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Aerospace Industrial Strategy in March, we are looking Business, Innovation and Skills what his policy is on an to establish the ATI as quickly as possible. I intend to EU-US Trade Agreement; what timetable is envisaged; make an announcement on the next steps before the and if he will make a statement. [155013] summer recess. Michael Fallon: The UK strongly supports the Bankruptcy forthcoming launch of negotiations for a Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. It is important that Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, we push for as ambitious an agreement as possible to Innovation and Skills how many bankruptcy cases were deliver the fullest benefits to the ″UK and the EU″.We recorded as having few or no assets in each year since are hoping to agree the negotiating mandate within the 2008. [155582] EU in June and launch negotiations soon after that. We hope to make rapid progress towards conclusion. Jo Swinson: It is not possible to provide an answer to the question raised as the Insolvency Service does not Exports collate information or report on the number of bankruptcy cases having few or no assets and the costs of obtaining that information would be disproportionate. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills when his Department’s Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, (a) export refinancing scheme and (b) Direct Lending Innovation and Skills what the average level of debt was Facility will be in operation. [155205] for bankruptcy cases (a) recorded as having few or no assets, (b) excluding those with few or no assets and Michael Fallon: I refer my hon. Friend to the answers (c) overall in each year since 2008. [155583] I gave to the hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna) on 24 April 2013, Official Report, column 995W. Both Jo Swinson: It is not possible to provide an answer to the Export Refinancing Scheme and Direct Lending points (a) and (b) in the question raised as the Insolvency Facility are still being developed. Service does not collate information or report on the average debt of cases taking into account levels of Foreign Investment in UK assets and the costs of obtaining that information would be disproportionate. In answer to point (c), the overall average level of Richard Graham: To ask the Secretary of State for unsecured debt since 2008 is as follows: Business, Innovation and Skills how much foreign direct investment the UK has attracted in each of the £ last five years; and if he will make a statement. [155382] As at April to March Median average Mean average each year amount of debt amount of debt Michael Fallon: Official statistics on inward FDI 2008-09 37,000 153,084 stocks and flows over the last 10 years (2002-11) are published by the Office for National Statistics in their 2009-10 42,300 130,248 ‘Foreign Direct Investment Involving UK Companies, 2010-11 34,907 162,087 2011 (MA4)’ publication at: 2011-12 36,510 164,346 2012-13 37,758 258,146 http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/fdi/foreign-direct-investment/ 2011-ma4/index.html 363W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 364W

ICT two years to modernise the network, helping the post office to compete in a changing retail market with no Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for programme of closures. Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking Ensuring that the heavy losses of the Crown post to support the creation of a digital single market. office segment of the network are eliminated to reach [155113] break-even by 2015 is a key element of the strategy to make the network sustainable. Michael Fallon: The Government is working closely with business, consumer groups and the EU institutions Zoos to ensure that the right policies are in place to create a digital single market. My noble Friend Lord Young of Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Grantham chairs an e-commerce task force which brings Innovation and Skills (1) what assessment he has made together key actors from within the digital economy to of the importance of zoos and aquariums to the UK identify areas where further action is needed to create a economy; [154854] digital single market. My noble Friend Lord Green of (2) what steps he is taking to stimulate economic Hurstpierpoint will host a conference on the digital growth in the zoo and aquarium sector. [154857] single market in Brussels this month which will be attended by Commissioners, MEPs and Ministers from Michael Fallon: A report by the British and Irish across the EU. In addition, we continue to work with Association of Zoos and Aquariums (BAIZA)1,tobe likeminded allies to ensure that proposals under negotiation published shortly, indicates that when indirect and induced will support the development of the digital single market effects are added to the direct outputs of zoos, as and business and consumer’s ability to buy and sell measured through the purchase of goods and services, goods and services online across the EU. the sector contributes some £658 million in total activity, and that the sector employs some 11,000 FTEs. Ministers Inflation and officials from BIS have had regular contact with BAIZA over the lifetime of this parliament at which Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, BIAZA’s proposals for growth within the sector have Innovation and Skills if he will list the purposes for been discussed. which his Department uses (a) the retail price index 1 The British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquariums measure of inflation, (b) the consumer price index Regent’s Park London NW1 4RY. Direct line: 020 7449 6599. measure of inflation and (c) any alternative measure of Website: www.biaza.org.uk inflation. [155049] Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking to promote Jo Swinson: Information around the use of inflation the economic potential of zoos, aquariums and allied measures is published alongside the Budget each year in wildlife sites to local enterprise partnerships. [154856] Annex A of the Policy Costings document. For Budget 13, this is available online via the following link: Michael Fallon: The Government is committed to https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ devolving power to local communities, and it is not for attachment_data/file/188367/ the Government to determine local enterprise partnerships’ budget2013_policy_costings.pdf.pdf (LEPs) priorities and actions. As independent bodies, From a financial accounts perspective, uses of inflation LEPs develop and agree their own local priorities as measures in BIS’s accounts are mentioned in the published they are best placed to understand how to drive jobs annual report and accounts. The BIS Annual Report and growth. and Accounts for 2011-12 is published on thedata.gov.uk website: http://data.gov.uk/dataset/bis-annual-report-and-accounts HEALTH The accounting areas that mention use of inflation measures are student loans (on pages 151, 166 to 170 CJD and 206) and launch investments (on pages 172 and 173). Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) when screening for vCJD will be available to Post Offices: Greater London families who have been affected by it; [155371] (2) when he proposes that a vCJD blood screening Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for test will be implemented to screen all UK blood Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has given donors. [155374] consideration to the future of Holloway Crown Post Office. [155315] Anna Soubry: At present, there are no validated blood screening tests for variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. Jo Swinson: The Government do not have any role in The Department, together with the United Kingdom franchising or mergers of Crown post office branches blood services, continues to monitor scientific research and the development and implementation, following and development in this area. local public consultation, of such proposals is an operational matter for Post Office Ltd. Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for The Government is fully committed to modernising Health (1) how many silent carriers of vCJD there are the post office network and to safeguarding its future. in the UK; and how many of those could be potential This is why we are investing £1.34 billion over the next blood donors; [155372] 365W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 366W

(2) what his latest estimate is of the number of Croydon University Hospital people in the UK who may be unknowing carriers of vCJD. [155373] Mr Steve Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what assessment he has made of the proposed Anna Soubry: A recent study of stored tissue samples, downgrade of Croydon University Hospital, including published in the Health Protection Report in August the closure of accident and emergency, maternity and 2012, found abnormal prion protein in 16 appendices children’s units; and if he will make a statement. out of 32,441 samples. This suggests a prevalence of [155556] about one in 2,000, which remains statistically consistent with results from an earlier appendix survey. Anna Soubry: Croydon university hospital is part of the current review of health care services taking place This estimate measures the prevalence of abnormal under the Better Services, Better Value reconfiguration prion protein in appendix tissues within the population proposals. covered. We cannot know for certain whether this is a good indicator of risk in relation to potential blood-borne Proposals for reconfiguration of health services are routes of infection, such that blood taken from donors locally led, in this case by the local Clinical Commissioning with abnormal prion protein in appendix tissue would Groups of South West London and Surrey Downs. transmit prion infection. However, risk assessments, No decisions have been made and local clinicians prepared for the independent scientific Advisory Committee continue working together to develop ways of reshaping on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP), are based on the local health services for the benefit of patients. Once presumption that this could occur. In February 2013, final proposals are agreed, a full three-month public ACDP agreed and published an updated variant consultation will be held. Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) and blood components risk assessment, which takes into account the recent Drugs: Misuse prevalence study data. A copy of this document has been placed in the Library, and is publicly available on John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for the Department’s website. Health what estimate he has made of the number of The prevalence of infective blood donors remains hospital admissions arising from legal highs in each of unknown. Not all individuals in the study would be of the last five years. [155655] an age eligible to donate blood, nor is it clear whether presence of abnormal prion protein in tissues such as Anna Soubry: The information which is collected the appendix indicates that the blood of such a donor centrally about hospital admissions for drug poisoning would transmit vCJD. Precautionary measures are assessed does not separately identify newer substances such as in the context of the fundamental uncertainties about legal highs. In “Statistics on Drug Misuse England, prevalence. 2012” published on 29 November, the Health and Social Care Information Centre highlighted a consultation on whether additional codes should be included in collecting Clinical Commissioning Groups statistics on hospital admissions for drug poisoning. General Practitioners: Working Hours Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps he is taking to ensure that clinical commissioning Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for groups do not have conflicting interests when purchasing Health what estimate his Department has made of services on behalf of patients. [155134] spending on out of hours care between 2004 and 2010, by primary care trust. [155467] Anna Soubry: The National Health Service Act 2006, as amended by the Health and Social Care Act 2012, Mr Jeremy Hunt: Information on spending on out of sets out the clear requirements on clinical commissioning hours care between 2004 and 2010 by primary care trust groups (CCGs) in relation to managing conflicts of has been placed in the Library. interest. For example, CCGs should maintain registers of interests that are published or otherwise accessible to Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for the public. They should also make arrangements for Health (1) how many items of correspondence his managing conflicts of interest and potential conflicts of Department received from primary care trusts expressing interest, to ensure they do not affect or appear to affect concern about arrangements for out of hours care the integrity of their decision-making process. following the introduction of the revised GP contract between 2004 and 2010; [155468] CCGs must also comply with the requirements for managing the conflict of interests set out in NHS (2) how many individual items of correspondence his (Procurement, Patient Choice and Competition) Department received expressing concern about out of Regulations 2013. hours care between 2004 and 2010. [155469] NHS England is responsible for supporting CCGs to Anna Soubry: Records are only available from August manage conflicts of interest, and has produced guidance 2005. A search of the Department’s ministerial setting out the statutory requirements and general correspondence database has identified 601 items of safeguards to protect the integrity of the CCGs decision- correspondence received up to 31 December 2010 about making process. The guidance is available at: out of hours care. This is a minimum figure and represents www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/ccg- correspondence received by the Department’s ministerial conflict-int-guide.pdf correspondence unit only. It is not possible to provide 367W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 368W more specific information about this correspondence Health Services: Berkshire without incurring disproportionate cost. There were no items of correspondence from primary Adam Afriyie: To ask the Secretary of State for care trusts expressing concerns about arrangements for Health whether he has recently received representations out of hours care following the introduction of the from NHS Berkshire about (a) the future of Heatherwood revised contract between 2004 and 2010. Hospital, Ascot and (b) the strategic priorities for healthcare services in East Berkshire. [R] [154904] Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many GP practices have opted out of Anna Soubry: The Department has not received any providing out-of-hours care under the provisions of the representations from NHS Berkshire about the future revised GP contract since April 2004. [155470] of Heatherwood hospital, Ascot and the strategic priorities for health care services in East Berkshire. Anna Soubry: Information on how many general practitioner (GP) practices have opted out of providing Health Services: Foreign Nationals out-of-hours care under the provisions of the revised GP contract since April 2004 is not available. Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the value was of invoiced fees owed to the Health Services NHS by foreign patients not entitled to free care which were written off in each of the last 10 years. [155471] Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what his Department’s administrative budget in Anna Soubry: The following table shows, for the years 2013-14 is for (a) Monitor, (b) Healthwatch England, that are available, the total losses, bad debts and claims (c) Healthwatch Staffordshire, (d) Independent Complaints abandoned in relation to overseas visitors not entitled Advocacy Service, (e) health and wellbeing boards, (f) to free national health service hospital treatment that quality surveillance groups, (g) Care Quality Commission, NHS trusts in England have recorded in their accounts. (h) NHS England and (i) clinical commissioning groups. The Chairman of Monitor has provided similar data [154901] for NHS foundation trusts, which are also in the table. The data may relate to treatment provided to overseas Anna Soubry: The Department has set initial visitors in earlier financial years. Furthermore, since administration budgets in 2013-14 for the following overseas visitors can include United Kingdom nationals organisations: visiting the UK, the data will not relate exclusively to foreign patients. The Department does not hold information 2013-14 Administration budget centrally about the nationality of patients treated by the Organisation (£ million) NHS. Monitor 48 Overseas visitors: Losses, bad debts and claims abandoned Care Quality Commission (CQC)1 46 £ NHS England (NHSE)2 663 NHS Clinical Commissioning Groups23l,239 foundation NHS trusts trusts Total 1 The initial administration budget shown for CQC includes £3 million which is ringfenced for Healthwatch England. CQC also receives 2011-12 8,880,564 2,676,000 11,556,564 programme funding from the Department, the majority of its funding 2010-11 6,773,733 7,182,000 13,955,733 is regulatory fee income. 2 The administration budgets for NHS England are published in the 2009-10 6,967,780 2,120,000 9,087,780 NHS Mandate: 2008-09 5,204,856 3,269,000 8,473,856 www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-nhs-mandate 2007-08 6,468,751 2,621,000 9,089,751 3 Issued to NHSE. 2006-07 5,046,763 — 5,046,763 The Department does not directly set the budgets for 2005-06 3,883,017 — 3,882,017 a number of the organisations quoted in the question as 2004-05 2,369,650 — 2,369,650 follows: 2003-04 3,334,173 — 3,334,173 2002-03 2,109,000 — 2,109,000 Organisation 2013-14 Budgets Source: NHS trust audited summarisation schedules and NHS foundation Healthwatch England1 Included within CQC budgets trust consolidated accounts (data are not available from NHS foundation 22 Healthwatch Staffordshire — trusts prior to 2007-08). Independent Complaints Included within NHSE budgets as Advocacy Service identified in the Mandate Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Wellbeing Health and Wellbeing Boards are Health what estimate he has made of the cost of secondary Boards statutory committees of local care provided to foreign nationals who were not entitled authorities. to free treatment. [155577] 1 The initial administration budget shown for CQC includes £3 million which is ringfenced for Healthwatch England. CQC also receives programme funding from the Department, the majority of Anna Soubry: The Department is not able to make a its funding is regulatory fee income. reliable estimate of the cost to the national health 2 Programme funding for all local Healthwatch organisations is service of providing secondary care to foreign nationals provided to local authorities via the Department for Communities who were not entitled to free treatment because the and Local Government formula-based grant and this is not ring- fenced. Final decisions on the funding of individual local NHS does not currently have robust enough systems in Healthwatch organisations are for local authorities to make, based place to identify every foreign national who should pay on their local needs and circumstances. for hospital treatment. 369W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 370W

The Department has commissioned a piece of work Ashworth hospital was originally built with 410 to better understand the extent of the use of the NHS bedrooms. Good practice, is to have less than 100% by migrants and visitors. occupancy so that admission and discharge can be The Department has recently concluded a major arranged to meet clinical need and the requirements of review of the rules and procedures on charging visitors the criminal justice system. and migrants for NHS care and over the summer we The main improvement to the high secure estate over will consult on proposals to make the system fairer and the next five years is the redevelopment of Broadmoor ensure that people who should pay for NHS services do hospital. Other improvement schemes are local to the in fact do so. This will include improving how the NHS hospitals. can identify, charge and recover charges where they Mesothelioma should apply.

Inflation John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what discussions he has held with insurance firms on the proposal to place their financial contribution Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if to mesothelioma research onto a statutory basis. he will list the purposes for which his Department uses [155658] (a) the retail price index measure of inflation, (b) the consumer price index measure of inflation and (c) any Anna Soubry: The Secretary of State for Health, my alternative measure of inflation. [154975] right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Mr Hunt), has had no such discussions. Dr Poulter: The Department uses a number of different measures of inflation for a number of different purposes, NHS Foundation Trusts including the following: (a) The retail price index (RPI) measure of inflation Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for is used to inform: Health which NHS trusts have not achieved Foundation level of future payments made by the NHS Litigation Authority; Trust status; and when he expects all NHS trusts to gain Health service cost index (uses both RPI and gross domestic Foundation Trust status. [155316] product (GDP) deflators); NHS Pay Review Bodies (consider both RPI and the consumer Anna Soubry: The NHS Trust Development Authority price index (CPI)); and (NTDA) has responsibility for providing support to payments to externally financed premises such as private finance trusts to help them achieve foundation trust status. The initiative (PFI) contracts. Department has allowed the NTDA to agree trajectories (b) The consumer price index (CPI) measure of for NHS trusts to reach foundation trust status by 2014 inflation is used to: or, on a case by case basis, beyond 2014. In doing so, we will ensure that the primary focus of the NTDA and of Calculate support payments paid to individuals infected with NHS trusts themselves is on improving the quality and Hepatitis .C or HIV through NHS blood transfusions. sustainability of services for patients. The list of existing (c) GDP deflators are used to inform the setting of: NHS trusts is outlined as follows: sight test fees and optical vouchers (also uses RPI); Avon and Wiltshire Mental Health Partnership NHS Trust tariff uplift; Barking Havering and Redbridge Hospitals NHS Trust dental charges; Barnet and Chase Farm NHS Trust prescription charges; and Barnet, Enfield and Haringey Mental Health NHS Trust overseas health payments and income (both historical trends Bart’s Health NHS Trust of inflation and GDP deflators are used). Bedford Hospital NHS Trust It is considered to be of disproportionate cost to Birmingham Community Healthcare NHS Trust compile a comprehensive list. Bradford District Care NHS Trust Mental Hospitals Bridgewater Community Healthcare Trust Brighton and Sussex University Hospitals NHS Trust Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Buckinghamshire Community Healthcare NHS Trust (1) what plans he has to develop existing high secure Cambridge Community Services NHS Trust hospital estates to meet changes in overall capacity Central London Community Healthcare NHS Trust requirements over the next five years; [155563] Coventry and Warwickshire Partnership NHS Trust (2) whether any review of the capacity of high secure Croydon Health Services NHS Trust hospitals was undertaken prior to the commissioning Dartford and Gravesham NHS Trust of redevelopment plans for Broadmoor Hospital; Derbyshire Community Health Services NHS Trust [155651] Devon Partnership NHS Trust (3) what the maximum patient capacity of Ashworth Dudley and Walsall Mental Health Partnership NHS Trust Hospital was on the date the hospital was established. Ealing Hospital NHS Trust [155652] East and North Hertfordshire NHS Trust Norman Lamb: NHS England informs me that East Cheshire NHS Trust commissioners undertook a Capacity Review that was East Lancashire Hospitals NHS Trust completed in November 2009 for the period 2011-12 to East Midlands Ambulance Services NHS Trust 2015-16. East of England Ambulance Service NHS Trust 371W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 372W

East Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust The Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital NHS Trust Epsom and St Helier University Hospitals NHS Trust The Whittington Hospital NHS Trust George Eliot Hospital NHS Trust Torbay and Southern Devon Health and Care Trust Great Western Ambulance Service NHS Trust United Lincolnshire Hospitals NHS Trust Hertfordshire Community NHS Trust University Hospital of North Staffordshire NHS Trust Hinchingbrooke Healthcare NHS Trust University Hospitals Coventry and Warwickshire NHS Trust Hounslow and Richmond Community Healthcare NHS Trust University Hospitals of Leicester NHS Trust Hull and East Yorkshire Hospitals NHS Trust Walsall Hospitals NHS Trust Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust West Hertfordshire Hospitals NHS Trust Ipswich Hospital NHS Trust West London Mental Health NHS Trust Isle of Wight NHS Primary Care Trust West Middlesex University NHS Trust Kent and Medway NHS and Social Care Partnership NHS Western Sussex Hospitals NHS Trust Trust Weston Area Health NHS Trust Kent Community Health NHS Trust Wirral Community Health Services Leeds Community Healthcare NHS Trust Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust Worcestershire Health and Care NHS Trust Leicestershire Partnership NHS Trust Wye Valley NHS Trust (Hereford Hospital) Lewisham Healthcare NHS Trust Yorkshire Ambulance Service NHS Trust Lincolnshire Community Health Services NHS Trust Liverpool Community Health NHS Trust NHS: Whistleblowing London Ambulance Service NHS Trust Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Manchester Mental Health and Social Care NHS Trust Health (1) how many individual items of correspondence his Department received expressing concern about the Mersey Care NHS Trust effects of Government targets on patient care between Mid Essex Hospital Services NHS Trust 2005 and 2010; [155477] Mid Yorkshire Hospitals NHS Trust (2) how many investigations into poor care or NHS Direct malpractice in the NHS were initiated as a result of Norfolk Community Health and Care NHS Trust whistleblowers highlighting these to his Department North Bristol NHS Trust between 2005 and 2010; [155584] North Cumbria University Hospitals NHS Trust (3) how many individual items of correspondence his North Middlesex University Hospital NHS Trust Department received from whistleblowers reporting North Staffordshire Combined Healthcare NHS Trust instances of malpractice or poor patient care between North West Ambulance Services NHS Trust 2005 and 2010. [155585] North West London Hospitals NHS Trust Dr Poulter: It is not possible to trace individual items Northampton General Hospital NHS Trust of correspondence received by the Department expressing Northern Devon Healthcare NHS Trust concern about the effects of Government targets on Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust patient care, or reporting instances of malpractice or Nottinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust poor patient care by whistleblowers between 2005 and Oxford University Hospitals NHS Trust 2010 without incurring disproportionate cost. Pennine Acute Hospitals NHS Trust A search of the Department’s records has identified Plymouth Hospitals NHS Trust 192 items of correspondence received from whistleblowers Portsmouth Hospitals NHS Trust between February 2009 (when central records began) Princess Alexandra Hospital NHS Trust and December 2010. This figure represents correspondence received by the Department’s ministerial correspondence Royal Cornwall Hospitals NHS Trust unit only. Royal Liverpool and Broadgreen Hospitals NHS Trust The Department does not hold information relating Royal United Hospital Bath NHS Trust to investigations into poor care or malpractice in the Royal Wolverhampton Hospital NHS Trust national health service initiated as a result of information Sandwell and West Birmingham Hospitals NHS Trust provided to it by one or more whistleblowers between Shrewsbury and Telford Hospitals NHS Trust 2005 and 2010 centrally. Shropshire Community Health NHS Trust Offenders: Rehabilitation Solent NHS Trust South London Healthcare NHS Trust Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Health South West London and St George’s NHS Trust what the annual cost of (a) methadone prescriptions Southport and Ormskirk Hospital NHS Trust and (b) rehabilitative treatment for both prisoners and St George’s Healthcare NHS Trust offenders on probation is. [155465] St Helens and Knowsley Hospitals NHS Trust Norman Lamb: We are informed by Public Health Staffordshire and Stoke on Trent Partnership NHS Trust England that data is not collected centrally on spending Surrey and Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust by prisons on methadone prescriptions. Data is available Sussex Community Health NHS Trust on total funding allocations for clinical drug treatment, 373W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 374W which includes the cost of methadone prescribing, to Furthermore, the National Institute for Health and primary care trusts in prisons over the last five years to Clinical Excellence guidance on the management of March 2013 and is shown in the table. It is not possible low-risk basal cell carcinomas (BCCs), published in to extract methadone prescription costs from the data. 2011, describes the training, education, qualifications The cost of rehabilitative drug treatment for prisoners and accreditation (official recognition and approval) is also included in these totals. that three different groups of health care professionals Total funding allocations made to primary care trusts for all clinical need to manage low-risk BCCs in the community. drug treatments in prisons in England between 2008-09 and 2012-13: The General Medical Council (GMC) is an independent male and female, all ages statutory body that is directly accountable to Parliament. Total clinical drug funding allocation (£ million) One of its purposes is to promote high standards of medical education and training. In December last year, 2012-13 117.5 the GMC introduced Medical Revalidation, which is 2011-12 108.4 the process by which licensed doctors are required to 2010-11 44.5 demonstrate on a regular basis that they are up to date 2009-10 39.7 and fit to practise. All doctors have to provide evidence 2008-09 23.2 of continuing professional development, covering the Source: full scope of their practice, which is assessed through a Public Health England. formal annual appraisal process. From April 2011, the total allocation included funding for psychosocial interventions which had previously Social Services been funded by the National Offender Management Service. In 2012-13 the total included funding for the Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for young persons’ secure estate and for immigration removal Health (1) whether his Department has conducted an centres. impact assessment of the potential effects on (a) insurers The cost of rehabilitative health care treatments provided and (b) policy holders of the proposed cap on social to offenders on probation is not collected centrally. care costs; [155040] Since April 2013, NHS England has commissioned (2) what discussions his Department had with insurance prison drug treatment services through 10 designated providers before the Government’s decision to set a cap local area teams (LATs). LATs will be able to enter into on the cost of social care was taken; [155041] local agreements with other partners, including criminal (3) what discussions his Department had with patient justice agencies, to establish pooled budgets and deliver groups and care organisations before its decision to set services including rehabilitative health care for offenders a cap on the cost of social care. [155164] in the community. This data will be available from NHS England in future. Norman Lamb: The Department ran an engagement in autumn 2011 on social care reform. This included the Prisons: Mental Health Services proposals for capped costs scheme, and the role for financial services in helping people pay for care. The Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Health engagement was run in partnership with representatives what the annual cost of prisoners’ access to (a) psychiatric of local authorities, the care sector and the financial nurses, (b) psychiatrists, (c) clinical psychologists, (d) servicesindustryincludingtheAssociationof BritishInsurers. occupational therapists, (e) drug workers and (f) The engagement was supportive of a cap on social counsellors is. [155462] care costs on the basis this would protect people from very high care costs while allowing people to use products Norman Lamb: The information requested is not such as insurance, pensions and equity release to pay collected centrally. for their care. The feedback from the engagement was published in November 2011. Skin Cancer A copy of the feedback is available at: www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health attachment_data/file/136456/2900021-Ipsos-MORI-Caring- what steps his Department is taking to ensure that (a) for-our-future-engagement-analysis-of-responses.pdf GPs and (b) GPs with special interests who diagnose, With regards to the market for financial services, the manage and excise low-risk basal cell carcinomas in the changes in limiting assessed care costs to £72,000 per community (i) are fully accredited to do so and (ii) person give providers more certainty about the maximum undergo continuous professional development in the payout they might face. diagnosis and management of skin lesions to maintain We will be consulting on the detail of implementing their accreditation. [155666] these reforms over the summer and are currently engaging with local authorities, the care and support and financial Dr Poulter: The Department supported the revision services sectors. Further analysis is available in an impact of guidance for general practitioners (GPs) with a special assessment of the capped costs scheme published on interest in dermatology, which set out a new role for 10 May 2013. skin surgery and community cancer care, in ‘Revised guidance and competences for the provision of services Streptococcus using GPs with special interests: Dermatology and skin surgery’ (NHS Primary Care Commissioning, 2011). Sir Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for This guidance for GPs and commissioners of services Health if he will set a target for the reduction of underpins more effective community care for those with early-onset group B streptococcus infection in newborn suspected cancer. babies; and if he will make a statement. [155689] 375W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 376W

Dr Poulter: The Department has set no target but is Brandon Lewis: Due to the sheer number of All Party working together with the national health service, the Parliamentary Groups, Ministers are not practically Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, the able to attend every event which may involve the Royal College of Midwives, the National Institute for Department’s responsibilities. Health Research Heath Technology Assessment and However, a list of meetings which Ministers within the pharmaceutical industry to make improvements in the Department for Communities and Local Government the reduction of early-onset group B streptococcus attended over the last 12 months has been placed in the infection in newborn babies. Library of the House. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, in partnership with the London School of Hygiene and Fires: Death Tropical Medicine, are to appoint a clinical research fellow to carry out an audit across the United Kingdom. It would aim to provide feedback and advice to all Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for participating trusts about how they can further improve Communities and Local Government what assessment their adherence to the Royal College of Obstetricians he has made of the number of deaths per 100,000 due to and Gynaecologists guidelines on the prevention of fire in (a) the UK and (b) countries that have introduced neonatal group B streptococcus disease. compulsory fire sprinklers in domestic properties. [154861] Tuberculosis Brandon Lewis: The Department has not made such Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for an assessment. Recording practices for fire incidents Health if he will create a national strategy for tuberculosis and casualties vary across countries as described in the in the UK. [155015] report “Comparison of European Fire Statistics” and found in the following link: Anna Soubry: Public Health England (PHE) is leading http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121108165934/ a national oversight group for tuberculosis (TB), which http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/corporate/pdf/ brings together partners from the Department, NHS 2159418.pdf England, local government, National Institute for Health Fire safety and prevention activity, such as promoting and Care Excellence, British Thoracic Society, academia increased ownership and regular testing of smoke alarms, and TB Alert to develop a strategy to reverse the trend have resulted in fire fatalities being halved over the last of increasing TB rates in the United Kingdom. The 20 years, with the latest figures showing a further fall: group held its first meeting on 10 April. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-statistics- The Department will continue to support PHE in monitor-april-to-september-2012 giving national policy leadership. Research and a review in 2005 concluded that it Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for would not be cost-effective to provide sprinklers in new Health what assessment he has made of the extent of homes, but that it would be reasonable to provide them the incidence of tuberculosis in the UK. [155016] in blocks of flats over 30 metres in height and certain types of care homes. The outcome of the research Anna Soubry: The incidence of tuberculosis (TB) in resulted in building regulations being amended to require the United Kingdom over time is assessed through sprinklers in tall blocks of flats, certain types of care systematic analysis of notification data obtained from homes and large warehouses. the Enhanced Tuberculosis Surveillance System, run by New regulation on housing needs to be balanced and Public Health England. In 2011 in the UK, a total of proportionate. Making sprinklers compulsory in all 8,963 cases of TB were reported, a rate of 14.4 cases per new homes would add an estimated £2,000 to £3,000 to 100,000 population. This information is contained in the regulatory cost of a new-build home, meaning fewer Tuberculosis case reports and rates, UK, 2000-11 which new homes, making home ownership less accessible has been placed in the Library. TB notifications and especially for first-time buyers, and potentially pushing rates increased from 2000 until 2005, and have remained up rents in the private rented sector. high but relatively stable since. A brief summary of key surveillance data for 2011 is Local Government: Newspaper Press given as follows: The main burden of TB was concentrated in large urban areas, with 39% of all cases reported from London. Mark Hendrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Over half of TB cases had pulmonary disease (52%). Communities and Local Government how much each local authority spent on newspapers delivered to households The majority of cases (74%) were born outside the UK, with the rate of TB among the non-UK-born population being in (a) 2010, (b) 2011, (c) 2012 and (d) 2013 to date. 20 times the rate in the UK-born. [154132] Brandon Lewis: The information requested is not held centrally. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Notwithstanding, I would note that councils are required All Party Groups by the Local Government Act 1986 to “keep a separate account of their expenditure on publicity”. The Act Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities states: and Local Government what meetings he and Ministers “Any person interested may at any reasonable time and without in his Department have had with all party parliamentary payment inspect the account and make copies of it or any part groups in the last 12 months. [154870] of it.” 377W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 378W

Prior to the general election, surveys by the Taxpayers’ New Markets: British Producers Alliance of such accounts estimated councils were spending in the region of £450 million a year on publicity. 15. Peter Aldous: To ask the Secretary of State for A Local Government Association survey of local Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what progress he authority publications in England and Wales in August has made on opening up new markets to British 2010 found that 92% of respondents published regular producers. [R] [155349] municipal periodicals. Such spending will have fallen since the revised “Code Mr Paterson: DEFRA continues to work with UK of Recommended Practice on Local Authority Publicity” Trade and Investment (UKTI) and industry to promote was issued in 2011, but it is clear that some councils are exports and address market access barriers. We have intentionally disregarding this guidance. opened the pork markets in China and Australia, expanded the beef market to Hong Kong, and opened poultry, Pay beef and lamb markets in Russia. We continue to work hard to open and maintain markets for UK goods; we Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities also champion British food at the world’s key trade and Local Government what guidance his Department events. issues on the actions that would result in the suspension or removal of a bonus payment to an official in his Red Tape Department; what the process is for clawing back such bonuses; and on how many occasions this has happened 18. David Rutley: To ask the Secretary of State for in each of the last five years. [154992] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what progress he has made on reducing red tape in the farming industry. Brandon Lewis: My Department has not issued any explicit guidance on the actions which would result in [155352] the suspension or removal of a bonus payment to an official in my Department. However, under the Mr Heath: The Farming Task Force Implementation Department’s conduct and disciplinary procedures it is Group has assessed progress in reducing red tape. Their open to DCLG to take such actions as it considers assessment, published on 27 February, recognises the appropriate in any individual case, which could include positive action taken by Government to date but highlights either suspension or removal of a bonus payment. that much of it is yet to be felt by farmers. We will work at pace to ensure farmers see reductions in unnecessary In the event that the Department needed to claw back red tape by: improving the way inspections are carried any bonus payment, the normal approach would be to out; developing simple, clear guidance, and reducing deduct the relevant amount from a future salary payment paperwork burdens. (either as a single or a series of payments, depending on how much is to be recovered). Where claw-back occurs Rural Economy after an individual has left the Department, it would either be recovered via the new employer if the individual 19. Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State has gone to another civil service employer or as a debt if for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what policies the individual has left the civil service. he is putting in place to encourage growth in the rural There are no recorded instances of a bonus being economy. [155353] reclaimed from any DCLG official in any of the last five years. Richard Benyon: Stimulating economic growth is the top priority for Government. We want to see rural areas contributing to and benefitting from that growth. We ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS are working to improve superfast broadband and mobile infrastructure in rural communities, piloting Rural Growth Access to Countryside Networks to test different ways of helping businesses stimulate economic growth in rural areas, while boosting 11. Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for key sectors such as tourism. We are also increasing Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps he is export potential and unblocking barriers to growth by taking to ensure that children from disadvantaged removing red tape. backgrounds have access to the countryside. [155345] Bovine Tuberculosis Richard Benyon: The Natural Environment White Paper included an ambition that every child in England John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for be: Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much was ’given the opportunity to experience and. learn about the natural spent on testing for bovine tuberculosis in (a) the UK environment.’ and (b) Bassetlaw constituency in each of the last We have acted to break down perceived health and 10 years. [154153] safety barriers and enabled schools to use Pupil Premium funding for outdoor learning. Mr Heath: Financial data which allows the costs of The Natural Connections Demonstration Project targets bovine TB testing to be separately identified from other students in deprived areas across the south west. We TB related spending for the last 10 years is not available. plan to launch a similar project in east London. However, data is available (as follows) for 2011-12 Local green space, farm host visits and initiatives and 2012-13 but not in the form requested as data is such as the Forest School movement are also particularly only available regionally (ie Midlands), not available by beneficial to disadvantaged children. individual county. 379W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 380W

the issue of infected badgers passing the disease to cattle. £ million Two badger culling pilots will go ahead this summer to 2011-12 2012-13 test the effectiveness, humaneness and safety of controlled England 44.12 45.53 shooting and inform a decision on a wider roll-out of Of which: the policy. Midlands 14.23 14.05 The Government intends to publish a broad strategy pulling all of these strands together. TB testing is defined as all skin tests and gamma interferon tests. Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what plans he Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for has to start bovine TB cattle vaccination trials; [155544] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment (2) whether he has submitted a request to the European his Department has made of the bagder cull programme Commission to start bovine TB cattle vaccination trials; in Ireland and of lessons to be learned in relation to the and what the timetable is for any such programme; proposed badger cull in the UK. [155141] [155545] (3) what steps he is taking to ensure that any bovine Mr Heath: The Irish approach to badger control is to TB cattle vaccination trials to be undertaken in cull badgers where they have been identified as contributing England do not adversely affect the ability to export to an outbreak of TB, which is determined through an beef and dairy products. [155546] epidemiological investigation. There are a number of differences between the situation here and in the Republic Mr Heath: EU Commissioner Tonio Borg wrote to of Ireland which mean that we are not planning to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural replicate their approach. These include differences in Affairs, the right hon. Member for North Shropshire TB incidence, badger population density and ecology (Mr Paterson), on 14 January 2013 setting out the (population density is lower and badgers appear to substantial scientific evidence that will be needed before move over larger distances in the Republic of Ireland). any decision can be taken on lifting the current EU ban We believe controlled shooting is one of the most on cattle vaccination. For that reason, his view is that it effective methods of carrying out badger culling but the would be reasonable to expect the full process to take 10 pilots this summer will test our assumptions about the years. effectiveness, humaneness and safety of this method. However, we are looking for ways to accelerate the Once the independent panel of experts overseeing and work we were already doing on planning the experimental evaluating the pilots report back to Government, Ministers research and large scale trialling of the vaccine that the can then decide whether the policy should be rolled out Commissioner regards as the essential next step. We more widely. hope to have successfully completed all the experimental work, including studies on safety of meat and milk, Andrea Leadsom: To ask the Secretary of State for during 2014 so that we can make an application to the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps he is Veterinary Medicines Directorate for an Animal Test taking to eradicate tuberculosis from cattle. [155284] Certificate to begin the necessary field trials.

Mr Heath: The Government is committed to a Bovine Tuberculosis: North West comprehensive and balanced approach to tackling bovine TB using all available tools. Numerous cattle controls Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State are already in place, including: for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether the Routine surveillance testing of cattle herds, frequency of testing outbreak of bovine tuberculosis in the North West of based on risk; England is attributable to cattle movements from the Pre-movement testing of cattle from higher risk herds; South West or other areas of high bovine tuberculosis risk. [155211] Movement restrictions on animals from herds that have tested positive or inconclusive for bovine TB; Mr Heath: Bovine TB is rare in Cumbria and Lancashire. The slaughter of all cattle that have tested positive for bovine The majority of breakdowns identified in those counties TB; in 2012 and previous years were caused by introductions All cattle carcases inspected at slaughterhouses for evidence of of undetected infected cattle from areas of high TB TB; incidence, including the West of England, Wales and Advice and support for farmers that have had cases of bovine Ireland. TB in their herds about bio-security and reducing the risk of bovine TB; and The origin of a recent cluster of bovine TB breakdowns Significant investment in research, with a particular focus on detected in North Lancashire (River Lune valley) at the the development of vaccines. end of last year and the beginning of 2013 has not yet been established. Targeted TB testing and epidemiological In January 2013 the Government introduced further investigations by the Animal Health and Veterinary changes to the TB surveillance testing regime and cattle Laboratories Agency (AHVLA) of herds in the area are movement controls. Measures for controlling bovine under way. TB in cattle will continue to form the backbone of our approach to tackling bovine TB and we will continue to Gangmasters look for ways to enhance them. However, cattle measures alone are not enough to Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for prevent the spread of disease in the worst affected areas. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs with reference to In order to stop it spreading further we need to address the answer of 4 July 2012, Official Report, column 682W, 381W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 382W on gangmasters, what progress he has made in (a) In relation to pilot schemes for childminder agencies, bringing forward proposals for consultation on the we have actively encouraged all those with a potential introduction of fines and penalties for low level technical interest in working with us on trials of agencies to and minor offences, (b) issuing sentencing guidelines contact us directly. for gangmaster-related offences and (c) introducing civil penalties for gangmaster-related offences. [155280] Children: Day Care

Mr Heath: DEFRA launched an eight week public Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for consultation on proposals arising from the Red Tape Education what (a) organisations and (b) individuals Challenge review of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority his Department has approached regarding the establishment (GLA) on Friday 26 April. It includes proposals to of pilot schemes for the relaxation of staff to child introduce civil sanctions as an alternative to prosecution ratios in childcare settings. [155119] for the offences in the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004 (the 2004 Act), and seeks views on how these Elizabeth Truss: In ’More great childcare’, published could be introduced. Any measures introduced following on 29 January, the Government announced its intention the consultation will be consistent with the Government’s to amend the staff:child ratios as set out in the Early policy on the use of civil sanctions, as set out in the Years Foundation Stage Framework from September written ministerial statement laid before Parliament by 2013. The Government consulted on the qualifications the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation required to enable settings to take advantage of the new and Skills, the right hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Michael ratios in a public consultation which closed at the end of Fallon), on 8 November 2012, Official Report, column March. We have spoken to a number of early years and 43WS. childcare organisations and providers about our proposals to improve the quality of provision in the early years DEFRA officials have looked into the practicalities sector and how best to implement staff:child ratios. of drafting sentencing guidelines in respect of the offences in the 2004 Act. Initial findings indicate that the relatively Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for low level of prosecutions arising from these offences Education (1) whether he has received representations means it is unlikely that the Sentencing Council would from Ofsted in support of the relaxation of childcare view this area of sentencing as a priority. ratios; [155126] Temporary Employment (2) what recent discussions he has had with Ofsted and Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Education on the relaxation of childcare ratios. [155270] Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many agency Elizabeth Truss: I have regular conversations with staff are currently working within (a) his Department Her Majesty’s chief inspector, Sir Michael Wilshaw, on and (b) its agencies and non-departmental public bodies. this and other issues. Sir Michael has made clear that [155215] Ofsted considers highly qualified staff to be critical to ensuring high quality early years provision. In an article Richard Benyon: As at 31 March 2013, core DEFRA published in ’Nursery World’ on 25 February 2013, Sir employed 40 agency staff, the DEFRA Executive agencies Michael said, and non-departmental public bodies employ 764 agency ″The facts are clear—highly skilled adults do a great deal to staff. improve the vocabulary, cognitive and social skills of very young children, particularly when they are not able to gain them at home. It is the skill and knowledge of early years teachers and educators that counts more than how many are deployed in a EDUCATION setting. Qualified teachers have been able to work with more children aged three and four than staff who are not teachers for Childminding years, and it seems right to me that the government is thinking of extending this principle”.1 1http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/1172172/Exclusive- Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Why-I-believe-need-raise-qualifications/?DCMP=ILC- Education (1) whether he plans to offer financial incentives SEARCH to encourage the formation of childminder agencies; [155116] Children’s Centres (2) what representations his Department has received from child care experts in support of the creation of Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for childminder agencies; [155117] Education how many children’s centres employed early years professionals as of (a) 6 May 2010 and (b) (3) what (a) organisations and (b) individuals his 6 May 2013. [155132] Department has approached regarding the establishment of pilot schemes for childminder agencies. [155118] Elizabeth Truss: The Department for Education collects information on the provision of child care through the Elizabeth Truss: At present we do not have any plans annual Childcare and Early Years Provider Survey. This to offer financial incentives to encourage the formation survey does not report the number of children’s centres of childminder agencies. employing early years professionals. It does provide We have received support from a number of organisations estimates for the proportion of staff who are early years and individuals for the introduction of ’childminder professionals employed by children’s centres which provide agencies’, including the members of our Task and Finish full day care. The estimates as a percentage by year are Group, and Her Majesty’s chief inspector. 5% in 2009, 7% in 2010, and 9% in 2011. 383W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 384W

These are the latest figures available to the Department. Pre-school Education The survey is now undertaken every other year and the 2013 survey is due to be published in September 2014. Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Curriculum Education (1) what representations he has received advocating the delivery of free nursery education by childcare providers rated as satisfactory without the Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for involvement of the relevant local authority in ensuring Education when the Government plans to publish a good quality provision; [155120] revised impact assessment on the proposed changes to the National Curriculum. [155032] (2) what representations he has received advocating the guarantee of an offer of funding for new early Elizabeth Truss: We will publish an equalities impact education providers, which have been registered with assessment for the new national curriculum, alongside Ofsted but not inspected, to deliver the free nursery our consultation on the draft statutory Orders that will entitlement; [155121] implement the new programmes of study, in the summer. (3) what representations he has received advocating the removal of the duty on local authorities to secure Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for information, advice and training for childcare Education when he plans to publish the final programmes providers; [155122] for study for Key Stage 1 to 3. [155034] (4) what assessment he has made of the potential effect of limiting the retention of free nursery entitlement Elizabeth Truss: We are currently considering the funding by local authorities on the ability to provide outcome of the consultation on draft programmes of services to childcare providers, including training and study which closed on 16 April 2013. We plan to publish special educational needs support. [155123] revised versions of the programmes for consultation on the draft statutory orders in the summer. The final Elizabeth Truss: The consultation on proposed changes versions will be published in the autumn once the to the role of the local authority in the delivery of necessary parliamentary processes are complete. Schools funded early education, and in securing information will start teaching the new programmes of study from advice and training for child care providers, closed on 6 September 2014. May 2013. The Department received a large number of Departmental Responsibilities responses from a range of organisations, which it is currently analysing. The Government will publish its response to the consultation in due course. Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for Education if he will publish the stop lists of policy The Government is keen to maximise the level of activity referred to in his Department’s recent Infrastructure funding that reaches the frontline to give early education and Funding Division newsletter. [155101] and child care providers greater choice and flexibility when it comes to accessing training and support that Elizabeth Truss: As part of the Department review meets their needs. In 2012-13, 113 local authorities we have examined all areas of the Department’s business retained less than 10% of their early years budget and to make sure that our resources are properly focused on nine retained centrally over 20%. ministerial priorities, and explored work which can be The ’Early Years block’ within the Dedicated Schools stopped, scaled back, or done differently. We will continue Grant (DSG) is not the only source of funding for to do this on a regular basis as part of our commitment activities to support high-quality inclusive early education. to reduce our administration budget, and to make sure Provision for children with special education needs that we continue to allocate our resources where they (SEN) can also be supported through the High Needs are needed most. block of the Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG). Funding The ’stop list’ mentioned in the newsletter refers to is also still available through the Early Intervention this ongoing and developing work—we are therefore Grant (now in the Business Rates Retention Scheme) not in a position to publish a single, definite ’stop list’. into which a number of predecessor grants, including those for early years, were brought together. Education: Assessments Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what the average number of hours of free Education what assessment he has made of the effect entitlement was for (a) two-year-olds, where offered, of the time taken in publication of assessment criteria (b) three-year-olds and (c) four-year-olds actually on the development of learning resources. [155031] used per child in each of the last five years. [155128]

Elizabeth Truss: We aim to publish the consultation Elizabeth Truss: The average (mean) number of hours on primary assessment and accountability under the per week of funded early education received by three new National Curriculum by the end of the summer and four-year-olds in each of the last four years is given term. The first new statutory assessments of the new in the table. National Curriculum will be in 2016. Information on funded hours is collected through the In advance of the consultation, we are continuing Early YearsCensus and School Census. The Department discussions with publishers, educational suppliers and collects and funds local authorities based on the number representative bodies, to make sure that appropriate of funded hours a child receives during the census support is available to schools as they develop their own week. A figure is not available for the average number of curriculum, assessment and reporting arrangements. funded hours a child receives over the year. 385W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 386W

The Department does not have information on the Mr Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for number of funded hours received on average by two- Education what steps his Department is taking to year-olds. This information will be available for the first monitor the effect of the introduction of new GCSEs time from 2014, following the introduction of the statutory and A-levels at the same time on the workload of entitlement to early learning for two-year-olds from schools. [155580] September 2014. It was only possible to provide data for the last four Elizabeth Truss: The first new GCSEs and A-levels years. To provide further analysis covering five years will be introduced from September 2015, which allows would incur disproportionate costs. schools to see the full picture of academic qualification reform, alongside curriculum and accountability reform, Table 1: Mean number of hours of funded early education received by three and four-year-olds1,2 —All schools and providers3, England, at one time. We believe this will help schools plan. To January 2009 to January 2012 support preparation, we expect specifications for the Three-year-olds Four-year-olds4 new qualifications to be available to schools from September 2014. 2009 11.6 19.8 To minimise the impact on schools, we are phasing in 2010 12.4 20.5 the changes to qualifications. Our priority is to reform 20115 13.7 21.0 the key academic subjects and, for A-levels, some of the 2012 13.9 21.0 high volume subjects. Changes to other subjects will 1 Children accessing their funded education across more than one follow over a longer timetable. Together with teacher provider will be counted separately at each provider. associations, Ofqual and other key stakeholders we will 2 Age as at 31 December in previous calendar year. 3 Includes maintained nursery, direct grant nursery, maintained primary monitor the impact of introducing new GCSEs and schools, primary academies, maintained secondary schools, secondary A-levels on schools. academies, special schools, special academies, city technology colleges, pupil referral units, and private, voluntary and independent providers. Scotland Excludes general hospitals and non-maintained special schools. 4 Figures for four-year-olds include those in maintained school reception classes. Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for 5 From September 2010 the number of hours of funded early education Education what (a) his Department and (b) its non- was increased from 12.5 hours to 15 hours per week. departmental public bodies procured from companies based in Scotland of a value in excess of £25,000 since Pupil Exclusions May 2010; and what the cost to the public purse was of each such procurement contract. [155771] Sir Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what steps he plans to take in response to the Elizabeth Truss: The information is not held centrally report of the Office of the Children’s Commissioner and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. entitled They Go The Extra Mile, published in March 2013; and if he will make a statement. [155688] Special Educational Needs

Elizabeth Truss: The Department for Education is Mr Buckland: To ask the Secretary of State for Education currently considering the Children’s Commissioner’s (1) if he will request Ofsted to inspect specialist SEN report, They Go The Extra Mile. A formal response to support services for children with sensory impairments; the recommendations made to the Department will be [154942] issued soon. (2) what the outcome was of his Department’s discussions with Ofsted on inspections of specialist SEN support School Meals service. [154944]

Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Timpson: There is no plan to require Ofsted to Education what plans he has to monitor the take up of inspect specialist SEN services as a matter of course. school meals. [155193] Ofsted already has the power to inspect the ’education functions’ of any local authority. Provisions in the Elizabeth Truss: Monitoring of the take up of school Children and Families Bill will ensure that this includes meals is being considered as part of the School Food all local authority functions relating to children with Plan, which is currently being prepared by the independent special educational needs under part three of that Bill. school food reviewers, Henry Dimbleby and John Vincent. Ofsted recently consulted on plans to introduce a new Once the reviewers have completed the Plan, we will framework for the inspection of local authority school consider any recommendations they make on this issue. improvement functions where there are particular concerns. Discussions between the Department and Ofsted are Schools continuing. These discussions will explore how concerns and local intelligence about SEN provision might be Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for covered by these inspection arrangements. I expect to Education which schools other than academies and be able to provide further information about this approach free schools have been visited by each Minister in his during the next stage of the Bill. Department since May 2010. [155192] Ofsted regularly considers how well schools meet the needs of disabled pupils and those with SEN through Elizabeth Truss: This information is not held centrally. both its mainstream and special schools inspections. Therefore to provide this information would incur Ofsted’s inspection framework requires that inspectors disproportionate cost. consider the extent to which the school meets the needs 387W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 388W of disabled pupils and those who have special educational untapped potential for nutritional impact. We would needs. Ofsted reports include details on specialist resource like to see the Bank use this portfolio of programmes to bases for sensory impairments where these are located deliver nutrition outcomes. within the school. In October 2012 Ofsted published a Ethiopia report called ’Communication is the Key’ which surveyed good practice in services for deaf children. Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for International Mr Buckland: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Development how UK bilateral aid to Ethiopia has what information is available to parents of children been spent, by category of programme and expenditure, with sensory impairments on the quality of support in each of the last three years. [154903] they receive from specialist SEN support services. [154943] Mr Duncan: The following table details how DFID’s development support in Ethiopia has been spent in each Mr Timpson: The main source of information for of the last three years, according to category of programme, parents is regular, high-quality contact with their child’s and whether it is resource or capital spending. teacher, SEN co-ordinator and other specialist staff. This should include information on how well their child £000 is progressing, the specialist support that is in place and 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 how well this is meeting their child’s needs. Pillar/ strategic Parents can also use Ofsted reports. Ofsted’s inspection priority Resource Capital Resource Capital Resource Capital framework requires that inspectors consider the extent to which the school meets the needs of disabled pupils Wealth 26,262 480 17,789 3,960 5,787 1,680 and those who have special educational needs. Ofsted Creation reports include details on specialist resource bases for Climate 3,516 — 4,320 — 6,628 1,684 Change sensory impairments where these are located within the Governance 18,561 3,800 19,097 3,800 12,877 — school. and The Children and Families Bill, which is currently Security before Parliament, includes a requirement for local Education 75,882 — 64,630 — 70,489 — authorities and their partners to publish a ’local offer’ Reproductive, 10,303 — 28,053 — 26,296 — of the support that is normally available to children and Maternal families in their area. This will increase the information and Newborn that is available to parents, including parents’ views on Health the provision available and the local authority’s response Malaria 2,341 — 8,761 — 10,200 — to those views. HIV/Aids 5,048 — 722 — 1,146 — Other 19,159 — 40,507 — 51,254 — Health INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Water and 5,460 15,200 4,993 15,200 5,646 — Sanitation Clothing Poverty, 42,601 3,520 14,409 39,040 21,498 13,238 Hunger and Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for International Vulnerability Development how many officials in (a) her Department Humanitarian 6,130 — 57,010 — 32,043 — and (b) the non-departmental public body for which Other —— ——534— she is responsible have made a claim for evening dress MDGs allowance in each of the last five years; and what the Global 1,518 — 1,073 — 297 — total cost of such claims has been. [155452] Partnerships Total 216,781 23,000 261,364 62,000 244,037 39,000 Mr Duncan: DFID does not have an evening dress Note: allowance. Figures for: 2010-11 and 2011-12 are out-turn; figures for 2012-13 are budgeted. Developing Countries: Nutrition Further information on DFID Ethiopia’s programmes can be found in the operational plan, at this web link: Mr Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for International https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ Development if she discussed increasing resources for attachment_data/file/67393/ethiopia-2011.pdf nutrition-specific programmes at the World Bank Spring meeting in Washington, USA. [155042] Ghana

Mr Duncan: At the recent spring meetings the UK Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for sought commitments from the World Bank for them to International Development how UK bilateral aid to use existing resources and make programmes nutrition Ghana has been spent, by category of programme and sensitive. Nutrition sensitive programmes are programmes expenditure in each of the last three years. [154902] across a range of sectors for example, social protection, agriculture or health which are also designed to have a Mr Duncan: The following table details DFID’s nutritional impact. The Bank has huge investments in development support in Ghana for the past three years, agriculture and social protection which have significant according to category of programme. 389W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 390W

£000 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 Pillar/Strategic priority Resource Capital Resource Capital Resource Capital

Wealth Creation 14,689,372 — 5473729 — 27,686,756 — Climate Change 634,782 — 316,008 — 337,280 — Governance and 14,006,527 — 8,453,153 — 17,469,885 — Security Education 27,117,889 — 34,869,314 — 18,288,262 — Reproductive, Maternal 4,573,039 — 4,801,039 — 1,121,745 — and Newborn Health Malaria 7,001,108 — 4,750,738 — — HIV/Aids 88,376 — 76,332 — 78,041 — Other Health 14,691,075 — 18,246,639 — 2,576,343 — Water and Sanitation — — — — — — Poverty, Hunger and 832,303 — 1,007,711 — — — Vulnerability Humanitarian — — — — — — Other MDGs — — — — — — Global Partnerships 282,808 — 390.050 — 857,745 — Total 83,917,280 — 78,384,712 — 48,252,955 —

Inflation Pay

Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for International Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will list the purposes for which her Development what guidance her Department issues on Department uses (a) the retail price index measure of the actions that would result in the suspension or removal inflation, (b) the consumer price index measure of of a bonus payment to an official in her Department; inflation and (c) any alternative measure of inflation. what the process is for clawing back such bonuses; and [154973] on how many occasions this has happened in each of the last five years. [155001] Mr Duncan: DFID uses monthly consumer price indices, published by the Office for National Statistics, Mr Duncan: DFID’s disciplinary policy allows for to revalue its vehicles, furniture and equipment and IT the withdrawal of future non-consolidated performance equipment assets. These assets are reported in the related payments as one of a number of possible sanctions. Department’s annual report and accounts. This revaluation There have been fewer than five cases in each of the last is in accordance with the requirements on accounting five years. for tangible assets, set out within the HM Treasury Financial Reporting Manual. Regulation The consumer prices index (CPI) is also used for price indexation of public service pensions. Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will provide the estimated cost of Nepal each regulation introduced by her Department since May 2010; and what the estimated benefits of each Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for regulation (a) amended and (b) revoked were. [155965] International Development whether the government of Nepal has declined funding from the UK Government Mr Duncan: DFID has no regulatory function. to support its gender-based violence unit in the Prime Minister’s Office. [155138] South Africa

Mr Duncan: Since 2010, the UK has worked very Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for International closely with the Office of the Prime Minister and Council Development with reference to the answer of 15 April of Ministers, in Nepal, to help establish a gender-based 2013, Official Report, column 92W on South Africa, (1) violence unit (GBV Unit) and develop a National Plan for what reasons the proportion of UK aid to South of Action to address gender-based violence. This GBV Africa spent on providing support to HIV and AIDS Unit is now fully funded by the Ministry of Finance, was increased from 0 per cent to 50 per cent in 2013; from Nepal’s own public funds, and UK funds are [154896] therefore not required. (2) who was consulted on the decision to increase Addressing violence against women and girls remains UK support to HIV and AIDS in South Africa from a key shared priority for the Government of Nepal and zero per cent in 2011-12 to 50 per cent in 2012-13. the UK. The UK is continuing work with the Ministry [155125] of Women, Children and Social Welfare to strengthen and support local level responses to gender-based violence Lynne Featherstone: There was a tabulation error and and we are currently designing a larger scale justice the corrected table is provided here. UK aid to South programme which will have a particular focus on tackling Africa in 2011-12 and 2012-13 was £19 million. The violence against women and girls. categories of programme and expenditure are as follows: 391W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 392W

and protecting women and women rights defenders Percentage from violence. Through our support to EUPOL, the 2011-12 2012-13 European Police Mission to Afghanistan, the UK supports Promoting growth 31 9 the Ministry of Interior in its efforts to increase the and jobs numbers and capacity of Family Response Units across Supporting South 11 6 Afghanistan. Earlier this year, a Memorandum of Africa’s effort on Understanding between EUPOL, the Ministry of Interior Climate Change and United Nations Development Programme was signed Tackling gender 811to this effect. based violence and strengthening public (c) During her visit to Afghanistan 4-6 March, the sector performance Senior Minister of State, my noble Friend the right hon. Support to Maternal 024Baroness Warsi discussed women’s vital contribution to and New-born building peace, security and prosperity in Afghanistan Health with the Afghan Government and wider Afghan authorities, Support to HIV and 50 50 leading female parliamentarians and other Government AIDS and civil society representatives. In Helmand Baroness Total 100 100 Warsi visited the Provincial Police Headquarters and As the corrected table now shows, the increase in UK met female police officers who are contributing to the support was for maternal and new-born health to reverse provision of security in their community. the increasing maternal mortality ratio and under five (d) We share the widespread concern about the attacks mortality in the country. In collaboration with the and intimidation faced by the dedicated and courageous Government consultation was held with civil society women who work tirelessly to defend the rights and and national and international academia during the fundamental freedoms of others. This year the UK has design of the programme. provided £500,000 in funding to the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission to help it act to protect human rights defenders, investigate and catalogue violence, and support those seeking justice. The British embassy FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE in Kabul monitors threats of violence towards human Afghanistan rights activists, with a particular focus on women. Where appropriate and useful to do so the British embassy in Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Kabul has issued statements condemning such violence, Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions and raised concerns with senior interlocutors in the he has had with the Afghan government about (a) fully Government of Afghanistan. implementing the Elimination of Violence Against Woman (e) We are committed to ensuring that women play Law, (b) increasing support for family responses units, as full a part as possible in securing a peaceful and (c) increasing the recruitment and retention of women prosperous future Afghanistan, and that the Afghan in Afghan police forces, (d) increasing support for political system and Afghan-led peace process are inclusive Afghan women human rights’ defenders and (e) ensuring and reflect the needs and aspirations of all Afghan the meaningful representation of Afghan women in any citizens, including women and girls. peace negotiations. [154368] Afghanistan and Pakistan Alistair Burt: The information is as follows. Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for (a) The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment and Department for International Development (DFID) he has made of the effect on public opinion in (a) are working together to ensure the Afghan Government Afghanistan and (b) Pakistan of unmanned aerial implements its national and international human rights vehicle strikes. [155039] commitments and obligations, including the UN Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Alistair Burt: The FCO has supported opinion surveys Discrimination Against Women. Implementation of the which looked at attitudes towards governance, religion Afghan Elimination of Violence Against Women Law and society in Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal (EVAW) was specifically included in the Tokyo Mutual Areas (FATA). In 2010 and 2011, these surveys included Accountability Framework (TMAF), the partnership a question related to “US drone strikes in the FATA”. between the Afghan Government and the international The proportion of respondents that believed that drone community. We, along with our international partners, strikes were never justified rose from 59% in 2010 to will hold the Afghan Government to account for the 63% in 2011. No other assessments of the effect of commitments they have made. In Kabul, the Gender drone strikes on public opinion have been undertaken Donor Coordination Group (led by UN Women) and by the UK. the Civil Society Support Group (led by UNAMA) are currently considering how the TMAF recommendations Altaf Hussain should be taken forward. The UK is represented on both groups. George Galloway: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) The UK provides £7.1 million assistance to the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Ministry of the Interior in Afghanistan, which includes assessment he has made of the activities of the leader support to work that is helping to protect and uphold of the Muttahida Quami Movement leader Altaf women’s rights such as the development of the Afghan Hussain; and what his policy is on the activities of that National Police’s policy on promoting human rights group in the UK. [155491] 393W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 394W

Alistair Burt: The activities of the Muttahida Quami On the specific 5-6 May violence, we have calls for the Movement and Altaf Hussain are not a matter for the Government of Bangladesh to conduct an impartial, British Government, provided that they are lawful. The transparent, investigation into the violence. The British police are the appropriate body to investigate any allegations high commissioner in Dhaka issued a statement on of criminal acts. 6 May, urging all parties to restrain from violence or excessive use of force, and to substitute dialogue for Bangladesh confrontation. The Minister of State, my noble Friend the right hon. Jim Sheridan: To ask the Secretary of State for Baroness Warsi raised concerns about recent violence Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is with the Bangladesh Foreign Minister most recently in taking to ensure that requirements on health and safety a meeting on 25 April. On 13 March, she issued a in the workplace are taken into account in the conduct statement expressing the UK’s concerns and urged all of trade with Bangladesh. [154756] sides to exercise restraint, moderation and respect for rule of law. Alistair Burt: The terrible event of the Rana Plaza collapse in Savar has highlighted the importance of The British Government respects the right for all following the law, enforcing regulations and eliminating citizens to hold their government to account including the underlying corruption that increases daily risk to through legitimate and peaceful protests. We hope that innocent individuals in Bangladesh. citizens are able to freely raise their concerns or grievances through peaceful means, without fear of retaliation or The British Government is committed to improving attack. living and working conditions in Bangladesh. The Ethical Trading Initiative, supported by the Department for International Development (DFID), improves the life British Nationals Abroad: Death of nearly 10 million workers, and the DFID funded RAGS Fund is promoting the rights of garment workers. Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign There is still much more to be done and everyone and Commonwealth Affairs with reference to the answer involved needs to play their part. This will involve close of 25 April 2013, Official Report, columns 1049-50W, cooperation from all parties involved in the supply on British nationals abroad: deaths, what the nature is chain. of the assistance provided by his Department to families in such cases. [154313] Jim Sheridan: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he Mark Simmonds: The range of support the Foreign has had with (a) his European counterparts and (b) and Commonwealth Office can provide in the cases of the European Commission on plans to use preferential British nationals killed or murdered abroad is described trade access to encourage better health and safety in its publication, Support for British Nationals Abroad. This can be found on the Gov.uk website at: regulations in Bangladesh. [154757] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/support-for- Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign and british-nationals-abroad-a-guide Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member I also refer my hon. Friend to the answer given by my for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), has had no recent noble Friend, the Senior Minister of State right hon. discussions with his European counterparts or the European Baroness Warsi PC, to the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy Commission on plans to use preferential trade access of Southwark, on 23 April 2013, Official Report, House to encourage better health and safety regulations in of Lords, column 1350. Bangladesh. The preferential trade access is a policy which is Buildings owned by the Department for International Development. John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign George Galloway: To ask the Secretary of State for and Commonwealth Affairs what the total running Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he costs were for each building used, owned or rented in has received of the killing of large numbers of peaceful central London by his Department, its agencies and protestors in Shapla Square, Dhaka, Bangladesh; and non-departmental public bodies in each of the last if he will make a statement. [155489] three financial years. [154241]

Alistair Burt: The British Government is very concerned Mr Lidington: The following table shows the net running about the recent violent protests and deaths in Bangladesh. costs according to Foreign and Commonwealth Office There have been a number of outbreaks of violent (FCO) records for each of the separate buildings used, unrest in Bangladesh since mid-February, resulting in owned or rented by the FCO for the last three financial approximately 200 deaths to end April. We continue to years. This includes buildings leased by the FCO’s arm’s monitor the situation closely. length bodies.

£ Building Occupier Owned/rented 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13

King Charles Street FCO Owned 12,568,814 12,357,495 12,210,850 Old Admiralty Building FCO Owned 5,407,734 5,119,293 5,100,071 1 Carlton Gardens FCO Rented 729,956 742,678 697,385 395W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 396W

£ Building Occupier Owned/rented 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13

Lancaster House FCO Rented 2,692,473 2,568,011 2,538,341 Centre Point FCO1 Rented 209,000 216,000 224,000 Artillery House WFD2 Rented 100,500 100,500 150,179 15 Belgrave Square GBCC3 Rented 49,542 42,502 46,193 Spring Gardens BRICO4 Rented 5,667,000 5,422,000 5,637,746 1 Building vacated in May 2013. 2 Westminster Foundation for Democracy. 3 Great Britain China Centre. 4 British Council 2012-13 figure shown net of subletting income.

The FCO has two Executive agencies, neither of Further, in consultation with the British high commission which rent or own buildings in central London. FCO in Suva, the local EU delegation has issued a number of Services provide technical and logistic support to the statements on the human rights situation in Fiji, including: Department and their staff are housed in King Charles concern around the political parties’ registration decree; Street, the Old Admiralty Building and Lancaster investigations into allegations of torture; and the importance House. The cost of their accommodation is not of freedom of expression and assembly. We have also separately recorded. The Wilton Park conference encouraged the local EU delegation to raise these issues centre is housed in rented premises near Steyning, West with the Fijian Foreign Minister which they did most Sussex. No Wilton Park staff are permanently based in recently earlier this month. We are encouraging the EU any part of the FCO’s central London estate. to pursue a dialogue on criteria for EU election observers. In view of the lack of democratic progress, EU development Colombia assistance to Fiji remains suspended. Fiji remains suspended from the Commonwealth until Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for it returns to democracy.Our view is that should democracy Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations in Fiji be restored through free and fair elections, we he has made to the government of Colombia about the stand ready to consider further assistance and look death threat received by the Patriotic March member, forward to the day Fiji is re-instated as a full member of Martha Cecilia Díaz Suárez and her two daughters the Commonwealth family. I used my visit to the region from the paramilitary group Los Rastrojos in the form last month to make public statements on these points. I of two mutilated and red painted dolls. [154250] have spoken along similar lines to the Fijian high Mr Swire: We have received many reports of threats commissioner in London. and violent attacks against members of the Patriotic I have encouraged the Commonwealth Secretary-General March movement. Officials at the British embassy in to continue his organisation’s outreach to Fiji to discuss Bogota have raised several of these cases with the assistance that Fiji would need to enable a return to Colombian Government, including threats against Carlos democracy. The British high commission in Suva met a Lozano and the disappearance of Hernán Henry Díaz. Commonwealth Secretariat needs-assessment mission The British ambassador to Colombia met with leaders that recently visited Fiji. of the March in Bogota this year. In relation to all of these issues, we continue to work closely with our partners in the region, including Australia Fiji and New Zealand. Patrick Mercer: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (1) what discussions G4S his Department has had with the government of Fiji about that country’s human rights record; [154106] Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) what discussions his Department has had with Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the current the government of Fiji about the status of Fiji within level of expenditure by his Department is on contracts the Commonwealth; [154107] with G4S; and how much was spent by his Department (3) what discussions his Department has had with on contracts with G4S in each year since 2008. [154553] the government of Fiji about the effects on Fiji of its suspension from the Commonwealth; [155600] Mr Lidington: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (4) what his policy is on the readmission of Fiji to (FCO) has over 40 contracts with G4S globally. For the the Commonwealth; and if he will make a statement. current financial year, these are valued at £36 million [155617] approximately per annum. The highest value centrally managed contracts are for the provision of armed static Mr Swire: We regularly raise our concerns about the and mobile security services in Afghanistan (£25 million human rights situation in Fiji with the Fijian authorities, this financial year), guarding services in the UK (£4.5 including Ministers, the civil service, Police Commissioners million per annum) and armed mobile security services and election bodies. In view of the seriousness of the in Somalia (over £1 million per annum). The balance of human rights situation, the Foreign and Commonwealth the expenditure is on a number of smaller contracts Office has included Fiji as a ’country of concern’ in its worldwide. These overseas contracts are also widely Annual Report on Human Rights for both 2011 and used by our other Government Departments, and partially 2012. funded/recharged accordingly. 397W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 398W

FCO spend with G4S has been as follows since £ financial year: Publisher 2009 2010 2011 2012

£ million (c) 165000 Springer 2009-10 23 (d) Other 21,463 16,200 16,564 18,981 2010-11 28 academic 2011-12 30 2012-13 31 Spend for 2008 is not currently available. Subscriptions to academic journals provide FCO staff The spend figures for 2008-09 could be obtained only with access to external opinion and analysis and an at disproportionate cost. awareness of current issues. This knowledge contributes to informed decision making and enables staff to engage Pay with contacts across and outside Government.

Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Russia and Commonwealth Affairs what guidance his Department issues on the actions that would result in the suspension Emma Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for or removal of a bonus payment to an official in his Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Department; what the process is for clawing back such representations he has made to the Russian government bonuses; and on how many occasions this has happened regarding the detention and trial of Alexey Navalny. in each of the last five years. [154998] [155571]

Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office Mr Lidington: We are concerned that a number of (FCO) has performance procedures where a performance prominent opposition politicians have faced criminal related pay (PRP/bonus) is only paid to a qualifying and administrative charges in Russia in the last year. member of staff. There are robust misconduct procedures Many observers have suggested that these cases are where the suspension or removal of a PRP/bonus payment politically motivated. Senior officials raised the ongoing could be imposed as a penalty for an act or acts of gross charges against Alexei Navalny at the 2013 UK-Russia misconduct where dismissal was not appropriate. In Human Rights Dialogue which was held in Moscow on such circumstances, the member of staff would be 8 May. We are following developments in the case notified in writing and the full amount would be deducted closely. from the next available pay day. In the last five years there have been fewer than five Emma Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for cases where action has been taken to suspend or remove Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent a bonus payment. For reasons of confidentiality, and to representations his Department has made to the Russian avoid the possibility of revealing the identities of individual Government on (a) human rights, (b) the independence staff, the FCO, in line with Cabinet Office guidance, of the judiciary and (c) the arrest and prosecution of does not disclose more detailed information when overall political opposition figures. [155572] numbers amount to fewer than five. Central records are not held centrally for locally Mr Lidington: At the 2013 UK-Russia Human Rights employed staff in our overseas posts and to obtain such Dialogue held in Moscow on 8 May the UK delegation data would incur disproportionate costs. set out our concerns about recent human rights developments in Russia including the arrest and prosecution Publications of political opposition figures, and that such action was undermining the rule of law in Russia. We also continue Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for to raise concerns at ministerial level. The Secretary of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the right Department spent on subscriptions to academic hon. Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), did journals published by (a) Reed-Elsevier, (b) Wiley- so during talks with Foreign Minister Lavrov in London Blackwell, (c) Springer and (d) any other academic in March, and I did the same when I met Deputy publisher in each of the last five years. [154495] Foreign Minister Titov in Moscow in February.

Mr Lidington: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office Somalia (FCO) spend on subscriptions to academic journals via official suppliers is as follows for the years 2009-2012: Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps his Department £ is taking to prevent sexual violence in Somalia. [155203] Publisher 2009 2010 2011 2012

(a) Reed- 0000Mark Simmonds: Britain is working closely with the Elsevier Federal Government of Somalia and the UN Special (b) 9,959 6,827 8,495 5,939 Representative for Sexual Violence in Conflict, Zainab Wiley- Bangura, to address sexual violence in Somalia. We Blackwell welcome the Federal Government’s invitation, issued at (John the Somalia Conference on 7 May, for a UN team Wiley and sons) of experts to visit at the earliest opportunity, and look forward to the team’s subsequent report and 399W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 400W recommendations. On 1 May, the UK and United Arab representatives and members of the Federal Government Emirates announced £2 million of joint funding for of Somalia to discuss, first hand, issues faced by women training and capacity building support to the Federal in Somalia. Government of Somalia in order to assist with the implementation of the report’s recommendations. Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what actions will be taken Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for with regard to protecting and advancing women’s rights Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment in Somalia as a result of the conference on Somalia on 7 he has made of the representation of women’s issues at May 2013; and if he will make a statement. [155231] the conference on Somalia held on 7 May 2013. [155204] Mark Simmonds: The British Government places great importance on gender equality and on the empowerment of Somali women as a core component of UK engagement Mark Simmonds: The single biggest challenge facing in Somalia. Protection of human rights, including women’s women in Somalia remains the impact of conflict and rights, formed important components of the plans presented insecurity. The Somalia Conference focused on how the by the Federal Government of Somalia at the London international community could better support the Federal Somalia Conference on 7 May.Together with international Government of Somalia in providing better security for partners, Britain will be working closely with the Somali its citizens, thereby helping to protect the most vulnerable Government to implement these plans. members of society. The UK looks forward to working with the Federal Preventing sexual violence was also an important Government of Somalia, the UN and other international theme at the Somalia Conference, following the request partners to support these recommendations. On 1 May, made by Somali Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign the UK and United Arab Emirates announced £2 million Minister, Fawzia Yusuf H. Adam for UK assistance on of joint funding for training and capacity building this issue during her visit to the UK in January. During support to the Federal Government of Somalia in order the conference, the Federal Government and the UN to assist with the implementation of the report’s signed a joint Communiqué representing their commitment recommendations. to tackle sexual violence in Somalia. The UK will During the Somalia Conference, the UN Deputy continue to work with both parties to progress this Secretary General and the UN Special Representative work. on Sexual Violence in Conflict signed a joint communiqué with the Federal Government of Somalia committing Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign to joint work to tackle the issue of sexual violence in and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he had Somalia. The UN Special Representative’s team will with representatives of Somali women prior to the visit Somalia in the summer and make recommendations conference on Somalia held on 7 May 2013; and if he for practical steps that can be taken to improve Somalia’s will make a statement. [155230] rule of law systems to prosecute crimes of sexual violence and to support victims. Mark Simmonds: Together with the Department for International Development and the Home Office, the Syria Foreign and Commonwealth Office hosted a seminar on 29 April in which prominent civil society members from Somalia and the UK Diaspora came together to Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for discuss issues facing women in Somalia today. The Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is event demonstrated the importance the British Government taking to ensure that no UK companies are (a) directly places on the empowerment of Somali women as a core and (b) indirectly involved in selling goods to the Assad component of our engagement in Somalia. regime in Syria; and what discussions he has had with his (i) US, (ii) French and (iii) German counterparts to I chaired a session focusing on the issue of violence ensure that companies from those countries are not against women and girls in conflict and listened to the selling goods to that regime. [155654] concerns and advice that these women had for both the UK and for Somalia. The Secretary of State for International Development, my right hon. Friend the Alistair Burt: The British Government has led the Member for Putney (Justine Greening) opened this way in introducing EU Measures against the Syrian event and spoke on women’s empowerment, while the regime, including against President Assad. All items Under-Secretary of State for International Development, currently prohibited under the EU Syria sanctions are the hon. Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Lynne listed in the official journal of the EU Featherstone) chaired the final session on female genital http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/ mutilation and forced marriage. A report of the main LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:330:0021:0051:EN:PDF conclusions from this seminar was placed in the delegate This means that no UK company can sell these goods packs for all those who attended the Somalia Conference to or buy these goods from the Assad regime. on7May. We discuss the evolving situation in Syria with our During his visit to Mogadishu on 2 May, in advance international partners on a regular basis at ministerial of the Somalia Conference, the Secretary of State for and official level. This includes conversations with the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. US, France and Germany on ensuring that all appropriate Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), restrictive measures are being taken against the Assad held a roundtable with prominent civil society regime. 401W Written Answers16 MAY 2013 Written Answers 402W

UN Mission for the Referendum in Western Sahara Alistair Burt: We continue to make clear, in discussions at the UN Security Council, the importance of full respect for human rights and note that the latest Security Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Council Resolution on MINURSO added a new emphasis Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent on human rights, encouraging Morocco and the Polisario representations he has made to the UN Security Council to continue in their respective efforts to enhance the for a human rights requirement to be included in the promotion and protection of human rights in Western future mandate of MINURSO. [155317] Sahara and the Tindouf refugee camps. 7MC Ministerial Corrections16 MAY 2013 Ministerial Corrections 8MC

referendum. Not only that, we have done better since Ministerial Corrections we issued that leaflet in 2008: we legislated to guarantee that to the British people for the first time in primary Thursday 16 May 2013 legislation just two years ago. We spent 100 days debating that in this House at the time. If my hon. Friend wants to reinvent it all over again and keep picking away at the issue, what will he give up from a fairly crowded Queen’s PRIME MINISTER Speech? Will he tell his constituents that we will not put a cap on social care costs; we will not deliver a single tier Engagements pension; we will not pass legislation to have a national The following are answers given by the Deputy Prime insurance contribution cut for employers? I think that Minister to questions asked by the hon. Members for we should stick to the priorities of the British people, Wellingborough (Mr Bone) and for North Wiltshire which are growth and jobs. (Mr Gray) during Prime Minister’s Question Time on [Official Report, 15 May 2013, Vol. 563, c. 635-36.] 15 May 2013: Letter of correction from the Deputy Prime Minister: Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Will the An error has been identified in the oral answers given Deputy Prime Minister confirm that the only party in to the hon. Members for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) this House offering an in/out referendum is the Conservative and for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray). party? The correct answers should have been: The Deputy Prime Minister: I know the hon. Gentleman The Deputy Prime Minister: I know the hon. Gentleman hates to be reminded of things that he and I have hates to be reminded of things that he and I have actually done together when we have been on the same actually done together when we have been on the same side of the argument, but we spent 100 days in the early side of the argument, but we spent 100 hours in the early part of this Parliament passing legislation, opposed by part of this Parliament passing legislation, opposed by the Labour party, that for the first time ever gives a the Labour party, that for the first time ever gives a guarantee in law about when a referendum on Europe guarantee in law about when a referendum on Europe will take place—when the rules next change or new will take place—when the rules next change or new things are asked of the United Kingdom within the things are asked of the United Kingdom within the European Union. The hon. Gentleman and his colleagues European Union. The hon. Gentleman and his colleagues in the Conservative party are perfectly free for their own in the Conservative party are perfectly free for their own reasons to move the goalposts, but this legislation is in reasons to move the goalposts, but this legislation is in place and the people of Britain have a guarantee about place and the people of Britain have a guarantee about when a referendum will take place, and that is what I when a referendum will take place, and that is what I suggest we should all go out and promote. suggest we should all go out and promote. [Official Report, 15 May 2013, Vol. 563, c. 627-28.] The Deputy Prime Minister: I fully stand behind the position that I took then and my party has taken ever Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): The Deputy since, that when there is a change in the rules and new Prime Minister is a great democrat as well as a Liberal, things are asked of the United Kingdom within the and I salute him for that. Will he therefore stand by the European Union, there should and there will be a precise wording in this very fetching Liberal Democrat referendum. Not only that, we have done better since leaflet that I happened to find on my desk this morning, we issued that leaflet in 2008: we legislated to guarantee which says: that to the British people for the first time in primary “Only a real referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU legislation just two years ago. We spent 100 hours debating will let the people decide our country’s future.” that in this House at the time. If my hon. Friend wants Will he now stand by that solemn pledge to the people to reinvent it all over again and keep picking away at the of Britain and join us in the Lobby tonight? issue, what will he give up from a fairly crowded Queen’s Speech? Will he tell his constituents that we will not put The Deputy Prime Minister: I fully stand behind the a cap on social care costs; we will not deliver a single tier position that I took then and my party has taken ever pension; we will not pass legislation to have a national since, that when there is a change in the rules and new insurance contribution cut for employers? I think that things are asked of the United Kingdom within the we should stick to the priorities of the British people, European Union, there should and there will be a which are growth and jobs.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 16 May 2013

Col. No. Col. No. CHURCH COMMISSIONERS ...... 794 ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS— English Baccalaureate ...... 794 continued Church Attendance...... 792 Community Orchards ...... 782 Church of England ...... 791 Dangerous Dogs ...... 778 Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill...... 790 Dog Ownership...... 771 Religious Freedom ...... 792 Flood Insurance...... 779 Forests and Woodland ...... 775 ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE ...... 793 Glasshouse Industry ...... 774 Overseas Voters...... 793 High Speed 2...... 776 Horse Passports ...... 777 ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Individual Electoral Registration ...... 788 AFFAIRS...... 771 Live Animal Exports...... 774 Bee Population...... 782 National Audit Office...... 789 British Producers: New Markets ...... 772 Topical Questions ...... 783 Church Bells ...... 788 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Thursday 16 May 2013

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 41WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 47WS Balance of Competences...... 41WS Balance of Competences...... 47WS Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Act 2011...... 47WS CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 42WS Balance of Competences...... 42WS JUSTICE...... 48WS Education, Youth, Culture and Sport Council ...... 43WS Balance of Competences...... 49WS Whiplash Claims...... 48WS HEALTH...... 45WS TRANSPORT ...... 50WS Parliamentary Written Answer (Correction) ...... 45WS HS2 Phase One Consultations ...... 50WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Thursday 16 May 2013

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 360W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— Aerospace Technology Institute ...... 360W continued Bankruptcy ...... 361W Fires: Death ...... 376W EU External Trade: USA...... 362W Local Government: Newspaper Press...... 376W Exports ...... 362W Pay...... 377W Foreign Investment in UK ...... 362W ICT ...... 363W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 346W Inflation...... 363W Health Education: Sex ...... 346W Post Offices: Greater London...... 363W Inflation...... 347W Zoos...... 364W Pay...... 347W S4C ...... 347W CABINET OFFICE...... 343W Cabinet ...... 343W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 347W Equal Opportunities ...... 343W Local Government: Elections...... 347W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 343W Inflation...... 344W EDUCATION...... 381W Internet ...... 344W Childminding...... 381W Migration...... 344W Children: Day Care ...... 382W Ministerial Policy Advisers: Vetting ...... 345W Children’s Centres...... 382W Pay...... 345W Curriculum ...... 383W Press...... 345W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 383W Publications ...... 346W Education: Assessments ...... 383W Railway Stations: Crime...... 346W Pre-school Education...... 384W Pupil Exclusions...... 385W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 375W School Meals ...... 385W All Party Groups...... 375W Schools ...... 385W Col. No. Col. No. EDUCATION—continued HOME DEPARTMENT—continued Scotland...... 386W Police: Festivals and Special Occasions ...... 342W Special Educational Needs...... 386W Unmanned Air Vehicles ...... 343W

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 358W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 387W Climate Change: Curriculum ...... 358W Clothing...... 387W Fracking...... 358W Developing Countries: Nutrition ...... 387W Fuel Poverty...... 358W Ethiopia ...... 388W Green Deal Scheme...... 359W Ghana...... 388W Plutonium ...... 359W Inflation...... 389W Radioactive Waste...... 359W Nepal ...... 389W Renewable Energy...... 360W Pay...... 390W Scotland...... 360W Regulation ...... 390W South Africa ...... 390W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 377W JUSTICE...... 337W Access to Countryside...... 377W Prisons: Discipline ...... 337W Bovine Tuberculosis ...... 378W Prisons: Mental Health Services...... 338W Bovine Tuberculosis: North West...... 380W Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012...... 338W Gangmasters...... 380W New Markets: British Producers ...... 378W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 332W Red Tape...... 378W Pay...... 332W Rural Economy...... 378W Temporary Employment ...... 381W PRIME MINISTER ...... 332W Honours...... 332W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 391W Lynton Crosby ...... 332W Afghanistan ...... 391W Afghanistan and Pakistan...... 392W SCOTLAND...... 331W Altaf Hussain ...... 392W Pay...... 331W Bangladesh...... 393W Wilson Review ...... 331W British Nationals Abroad: Death ...... 394W Buildings...... 394W TRANSPORT ...... 333W Colombia ...... 395W Directly Operated Railways...... 333W Fiji ...... 395W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 334W G4S...... 396W Inflation...... 334W Pay...... 397W Merchant Shipping (Diving Safety) Regulations Publications ...... 397W 2002 ...... 335W Russia ...... 398W Pay...... 335W Somalia...... 398W Railways: Franchises ...... 335W Syria...... 400W Scotland...... 337W UN Mission for the Referendum in Western Sahara...... 401W TREASURY ...... 338W Bank Notes ...... 338W HEALTH...... 364W Financial Services: Regulation ...... 339W CJD ...... 364W Fuels: Prices...... 339W Clinical Commissioning Groups ...... 365W Individual Savings Accounts ...... 339W Croydon University Hospital ...... 366W Inflation...... 339W Drugs: Misuse...... 366W Pay...... 340W General Practitioners: Working Hours...... 366W Public Expenditure: Ministry of Defence...... 340W Health Services ...... 367W Tonnage Tax ...... 340W Health Services: Berkshire...... 368W Health Services: Foreign Nationals ...... 368W WALES...... 331W Inflation...... 369W Inflation...... 331W Mental Hospitals ...... 369W National Assembly for Wales ...... 331W Mesothelioma ...... 370W Pay...... 332W NHS Foundation Trusts...... 370W NHS: Whistleblowing ...... 372W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 348W Offenders: Rehabilitation ...... 372W Buildings...... 348W Prisons: Mental Health Services...... 373W Employment Schemes: Young People...... 348W Skin Cancer ...... 373W Enfield ...... 349W Social Services...... 374W Homelessness...... 349W Streptococcus...... 374W Innovation Fund: Scotland ...... 349W Tuberculosis...... 375W Jobseeker’s Allowance...... 350W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Croydon ...... 350W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 340W Pay...... 351W Altaf Hussain ...... 340W Pensioners...... 351W Asylum ...... 341W Personal Independence Payment...... 352W Entry Clearances: China ...... 341W Scotland...... 352W Entry Clearances: India ...... 341W Social Security Benefits...... 353W Members: Correspondence ...... 342W Telephone Services...... 354W Plants: Imports ...... 342W Unemployment Benefits: Croydon ...... 354W Col. No. Col. No. WORK AND PENSIONS—continued WORK AND PENSIONS—continued Universal Credit...... 355W Work Capability Assessment...... 356W Universal Credit: Gloucestershire ...... 356W Work Programme...... 357W Vacancies: Internet...... 356W MINISTERIAL CORRECTIONS

Thursday 16 May 2013

Col. No. PRIME MINISTER...... 7MC Engagements...... 7MC Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Thursday 23 May 2013

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PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords, £4. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords, £600. LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £60 (£100 for a two-volume edition). Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volumeof House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. All prices are inclusive of postage Volume 563 Thursday No. 7 16 May 2013

CONTENTS

Thursday 16 May 2013

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 771] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Church Commissioners Public Accounts Commission Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission

Business of the House [Col. 795] Statement—(Mr Lansley)

Backbench Business [Un-allotted day] Mental Health [Col. 813] Motion—(Paul Burstow)—agreed to

Road Traffic Offences (Sentencing) [Col. 873] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Careers Guidance [Col. 1WH] Educating Engineers [Col. 26WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 41WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 331W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 7MC]