Why Can't My World Be Soft? Zašto Moj Svijet Ne Bi Bio Mekan?

Karim Rashid Zašto moj svijet

ne bi bio Karim Rashid mekan? Why Can’t My

razgovarali interviewed by World Be Soft? Feđa Vukić Tihomir Milovac Sanja Muzaferija

fotografije photographs by Iwan Baan for M.N. Metropolitana di Napoli S.p.A. (IB) Filip Beusan (FB) ljubaznošću Karima Rashida / courtesy of Karim Rashid inc. (KR) portreti portraits Damil Kalogjera

Razgovarali u Zagrebu 18. listopada 2012. Interviewed in Zagreb 18th October 2012

¶ Za Karima Rashida se može reći da je među nekolicinom ¶ You could say that Karim Rashid is one of the few global globalnih pojava iz svijeta dizajna i umjetnosti koje su između phenomena in the world of design and art that have placed an svoje osobnosti, svoga lika i svoga djela postavile znak jed- equals sign between their personality, image and work. Using nakosti. Koristeći najprogresivnije strategije popularnih some of the most progressive strategies of popular arts and umjetnosti i kultura te medijskih zakonitosti, prvenstveno media laws, primarily mass production, availability and attrac- masovnost, dostupnost i dopadljivost, i kombinirajući ih s tiveness, and combining them with the modernist tradition modernističkom tradicijom upotrebe novih tehnologija i of using new technologies and materials, Rashid has achieved materijala, Rashid je ostvario respektabilan dizajnerski opus a respectable body of work in design that is understood and kojeg razumiju i upotrebljavaju svi, kako elite tako i široke used by all, both the elite and broad masses. This is exactly mase. Upravo zbog toga dizajnerska su mu djela kontroverzna, why his design works are controversial, a matter of dispute, predmetom su osporavanja, nerijetko i negiranja, ali i neskri- sometimes even negation, and also open adulation and great venog obožavanja i velikih pohvala. Rashida poznamo i kao praise. We know Rashid as a passionate speaker, a promoter strastvenog govornika, promicatelja važne uloge dizajna u of the important role of design in the modern world, design suvremenom svijetu, dizajna koji se, prema njegovim riječima, that, according to him, is based on the skill of shaping beauty temelji na vještini oblikovanja ljepote i njenoj učinkovitosti. and its efficiency.

166 oris, broj 80, godina 2013 oris, number 80, year 2013 Karim Rashid, Intervju Karim Rashid, Interview 167 Razgovor je vođen za of theories, lots of people say that we’ve got to the point where vrijeme izložbe Karima nothing is new. It’s ridiculous. If you look at and think about the Rashida ‘Ideologija ljepote’, postavljene u last twenty years, the visual age is completely reshaping our stalni postav Muzeja entire global landscape, the entire world. In fact just two weeks suvremene umjetnosti ago we had a seminar in my office with a new type of software, u Zagrebu (20. 10. 2012. – 30. 12. 2012.) fifteen of us all spending four hours a day at workshops for about a week, on new software that is so complex, so ama- This interview was zing, it will in a sense revolutionize our built environment, this conducted during Karim software. There is already a group of architects, some people Rashid’s exhibition ‘The Ideology of Beauty’,on who have already gone over to it because the possibilities of permanent exhibit what can be done are infinite. So this world we live in now in the Museum of is a Cartesian world, it was designed in two dimensions. You Contemporary Art in Zagreb (20. 10. 2012 see it with a triangle and square and you design the section, – 30. 12. 2012) elevation, right? Today you are designing in 3D, so imagine the world we are going to create. ORIS — Ok, following this explanation of yours, once, a few years ago I believe, you stated in an interview that you would like to design a robot. What kind of robot would that be? ¶ Karim Rashid — I would design a human being actually, rather than a robot. It would be a kind of replicant of some sort, yeah. I would love to have an opportunity to do that. There are a lot of people in the world working on this now as we speak. But I think the difference is that the people who are working on it come from a kind of technological end, not the aesthetic end. I don’t know what is going to happen with the physical being. The sad part is that they will probably try to just imitate the human as we are, but the natural fact is that we are not designed well. There are so many mistakes about us. ORIS — What is our biggest fault, design wise? ¶ Karim Rashid — I think one of them is to take nine months to be born; there is no other animal that takes that long, it’s kind of absurd actually. Also, when we are born, the child can’t survive by itself while for most species the baby is all ready for survi- val. The human being is completely dependent on its mother or father. So we’re kind of poorly designed in that way. No question about that. And genetically we are poorly designed because of our genes. Cancer and all the toxins that are in the world right now can easily attack our genes. So genetically ORIS — Počet ću in medias res: s obzirom na vašu dizaj- ORIS — I will start in medias res as they used to say, so I would da smo došli do točke u kojoj se ne može stvoriti ništa novo, we are not very well designed either and you can go on and nersku praksu, što znači biti originalan u današnjem svijetu? like to ask you, considering your design practice, what does it no to nije istina. Ako pogledate posljednjih dvadeset godina, on. You can argue for example about hair. We don’t need hair Je li još uvijek moguće zadovoljiti zahtjeve proizvođača za mean to be original in today’s world? Is it still possible to meet možemo otkriti kako vizualno doba potpuno preoblikuje cijeli so we should really design human beings without any. The stvaranjem nečeg novog? ¶ Karim Rashid — Da, naravno, the producer’s need to create something new? ¶ Karim Ras- naš globalni krajolik, cijeli svijet. Prije dva tjedna u mom uredu hair is something that is not good any more. Hair is basically uvijek ćemo biti u mogućnosti stvoriti nešto originalno, jer hid — Yes, of course, we will always be able to do something organizirali smo radionicu za petnaestero djelatnika s novim relegated to a few parts of our body, it’s kind of ridiculous. It’s naša kultura evoluira i ljudska bića evoluiraju. Neprestano original because culture and we as human beings kind of evolve. tipom softvera. Radionice su trajale tjedan dana po četiri sata even ridiculous that we are spending all these billions of dollars nastaju nove potrebe i nove želje i uvijek postoji mogućnost There are perpetually new needs and new desires, so there is dnevno, a bavili smo se novim softverom koji je kompleksan on research trying to make sure we can grow hair back on our stvaranja originalnog djela. Mnogo je teorija i mnogi smatraju always an opportunity to do original work. I think there are a lot i nevjerojatan. U određenom smislu on će revolucionirati naš head. So the human being is, I think, very, very poor inside.

168 oris, broj 80, godina 2013 oris, number 80, year 2013 Karim Rashid, Intervju Karim Rashid, Interview 169 Postav izložbe: Ideologija ljepote, MSU (Muzej suvremene umjetnosti) Zagreb, Hrvatska, 2012.

Exhibition setup: ‘Ideology of Beauty’, MSU (Museum of Contemporary Art) Zagreb, Croatia, 2012

(FB)

izgrađeni okoliš. Postoji grupa arhitekata koji su već radili s Stolac Koncord, proizvođač Slide, This world works on archetypes so people know the kind of njim i shvatili kako on nudi beskonačne mogućnosti. Svijet u Italija, 2009. human being they’re going to make. It’s already happening kojem sada živimo je kartezijanski svijet. Osmišljen je u dvije Koncord Stool, manufactured by now in animation. They will make a woman, the whole thing’s dimenzije. Možete ga vidjeti s trokutom i četverokutom i diza- Slide, Italy, 2009 going to be like pushing the boundaries of sexuality. But that jnirati odjeljak, visinu, zar ne? Međutim, s obzirom da danas (KR) shouldn’t be the primary agenda. možemo projektirati u 3D, zamislite svijet koji ćemo stvoriti! ORIS — Talking about sexuality, maybe you should say ORIS — Nakon ovog vašeg objašnjenja podsjetit ću vas da something about the eroticism that is so present in your ste prije nekoliko godina u jednom intervjuu izjavili da biste work with all the forms that are so kind of human and erotic željeli dizajnirati robota. Kakav bi to robot bio? ¶ Karim in a way, round, do you see that? ¶ Karim Rashid — When Rashid — Zapravo bih radije dizajnirao ljudsko biće nego I think back years ago, when I was a teenager, I kind of loved robota. To bi bila neka vrsta replikanta. Volio bih imati priliku Bruno Munari’s book of all the prostitutes that he photograp- za to. Trenutačno na tom projektu radi mnogo ljudi. Mislim Bočica, proizvođač Move hed, 300 or 400 of them. I always loved this kind of subversive da je problem u tome što ljudi koji rade na tome dolaze iz Collective, SAD, 2012. world a little bit but I was brought up in a kind of ‘British tehnološkog, a ne iz estetskog okruženja. Ne znam što će se Bobble, manufactured by mother’ way so I think in a way, I was suppressed. dogoditi s fizičkim bićem u tom projektu. Vjerojatno će se, Move Collective, USA, 2012 ORIS — But maybe not only sexuality as a way of human exc- nažalost, izgledom pokušati oponašati ljudsko biće, ali pri- (KR) hange of emotion, physical emotion but some kind of erotic rodna je činjenica da mi nismo dobro dizajnirani. Mnogo je (KR) Polica Kurl, proizvođač Kurl Shelf, manufactured emotion, this is in a way how you approached your design. pogrešaka u nama i na nama. Zeritalia, Italija, 2003. by Zeritalia, Italy, 2003 I mean you actually have a true feeling when you do this

170 oris, broj 80, godina 2013 oris, number 80, year 2013 Karim Rashid, Intervju Karim Rashid, Interview 171 Mislim da znate da za ručni rad nema can’s shape – of course there is a lot of function involved in it but it was really coming from an extension of us as human mjesta u dizajnu, više ne postoji beings. And I’m saying: why can’t my world be soft and easier and more casual and more comfortable? ORIS — And less dangerous. ¶ Karim Rashid — Yeah, it I think you know handwork has is amazing. I’m doing lots of hotels and buildings around the no place in design, it doesn’t exist world and lots of public spaces and I realised how difficult this is, I am pushing to make great experiences but my focus is not anymore. on the styling or the aesthetics of a hotel room. It is on having a great experience and it is amazing how difficult that is and how many filters you have. (KR) ORIS — Could you define crossing the border of our world that we know, is it some kind of an exploration of the new and the known? ¶ Karim Rashid — I don’t really contrive it by the word ‘function’; it is wrong, because when you engage that it’s many levels of engagement – the right emotional level, right logical level, etc. If you start to use those criteria you shape something new. Inevitably you will do something new and it would be original. ORIS — Following your remark before on this sort of revo- lutionizing of the Cartesian world, would you say that the very concept of design as we knew it will change that very concept dramatically? How do you see this change? ¶ Karim Rashid — That’s a big question. You know right now, the majority of the world, let’s say the design oligarchy, is based on work from 1906 and from the Bauhaus. Really the Bauhaus exploited the machine as far as the machine could go and the machine had limitations. Now machines have no limitations. (KR) Stak, set za serviranje, Stak, table set, manufactured by Stolić Besktrajan Nil (Endless Endless Nile Table, manufactured It is kind of an opposite. So now if you have a creative mind proizvođač Danese, Italija, 2003. Danese, Italy, 2003 Nile), proizvođači 3M, Italija i by 3M, Italy and Egypt Exporters, and you have the machine, you can do anything with it. Yet Egypt Exporters, Egipat, 2007. Egypt, 2007 somehow we are still pretty linked to this kind of modernism of that education. ORIS — You mentioned the machine as a symbol for artificial ORIS — Što je naša najveća greška u smislu dizajna? ¶ Karim and also you expect that people will have the same feeling. tijelu, a to je smiješno. Čak je i apsurdno da trošimo tolike production and the opposite being handwork. How would Rashid — Mislim da je jedna od grešaka to da je potrebno ¶ Karim Rashid — Yes, yes. I mean it. The point is I always milijarde dolara na istraživanja pokušavajući postići da nam you define this relationship today? ¶ Karim Rashid — I think devet mjeseci da bismo se rodili; ne postoji niti jedna životinja thought of a human being… What I love about the perversity kosa ponovno naraste na glavi. Po mom mišljenju čovjek je you know handwork has no place in design, it doesn’t exist kojoj je potrebno toliko vremena za rađanje. To je zapravo of the world is that design as a kind of culture has cleaned up loše dizajniran. Ovaj svijet funkcionira na arhetipovima pa anymore. That is kind of gone. What we call craft today is this apsurd. Kada se dijete rodi, ne može opstati samo za sebe, a the world, and organized the world. But with organizing the pretpostavljam kakvo će ljudsko biće napraviti. To se već sada idea that someone just does something by hand and we call kod većine životinjskih vrsta mladunče je spremno za opsta- world we have also become really deductive in the kind of događa u animaciji. Napravit će ženu i tako će cijela stvar that practice craft. We are losing craft really, there is not much nak. Ljudsko biće je potpuno ovisno o svojoj majci ili ocu. To minimalistic idea. That would be called design. We see things biti pomicanje granica seksualnosti. No to ne bi trebao biti of it. It’s becoming a middle-class hobby really, craft. If you je, na neki način, loše organizirano. Nema sumnje da je tako. relatively minimally; that is what a lot of people think design primarni cilj. look at a place like Murano, one factory after another is just I genetski smo slabo dizajnirani zbog naših gena. Rak i svi is. Here we are, we are not symmetrical, we are completely ORIS — Govoreći o seksualnosti, možda biste trebali reći shutting down because there is no… economics in reproducing toksini koji su prisutni u svijetu lako napadaju naše gene jer amorphous, completely organic and yet we’re forced into this nešto o erotici koja je toliko prisutna u vašem radu, u svim by hand, right? If you look at the art world it is interesting. The genetski nismo dobro osmišljeni. I tako možete nabrajati kind of Cartesian world. So all the things like the Zero desk oblicima koji su na neki način tako ljudski i erotični, okrugli. art world is hiding behind this idea of making something. Not unedogled. Primjerice, dlake – trebamo li ih zaista? Trebali behind you, all the things I do, I always think about how my ¶ Karim Rashid — Kada pomislim na vrijeme kad sam bio hiding, protecting that notion of the hand. You’d see it like Tom bismo oblikovati ljudsko biće bez dlaka jer nam one više ne body would touch this or how I can make something, even a tinejdžer, sjetim se kako sam volio knjigu Bruna Munarija s Sachs making a paper airplane or something. It is like this idea trebaju. Dlake u osnovi postoje na nekoliko mjesta na našem garbage can, plastic cans I made years ago. The idea of that tristo ili četiristo fotografija prostitutki. Uvijek sam pomalo – ‘Oh, he made that by hand!’ So the art world has perpetuated

172 oris, broj 80, godina 2013 oris, number 80, year 2013 Karim Rashid, Intervju Karim Rashid, Interview 173 bio naklonjen toj vrsti subverzivnog svijeta, ali sam odrastao the world, and I’ve been to many, still has painting by hand and, uz ‘britansku majku’, pa sam na neki način bio pod pritiskom. honestly, my real opinion about this is – it was beautiful for a ORIS — Svom dizajnu pristupili ste na način seksualnosti, no time but now in the 21th century it is over. ne samo seksualnosti kao ljudske razmjene emocija, fizičkih ORIS — You have this Design Museum in London. Why do we emocija, nego i erotike. Mislim da zapravo radite s istinskim separate art and design? ¶ Karim Rashid — But we have to osjećajem pa iščekujete da će ga ljudi prepoznati i pridružiti separate them. The reality is that design is for a larger audi- mu se. ¶ Karim Rashid — Da, da. To zaista mislim. Stvar je ence. Design is reproduction. u tome da sam uvijek razmišljao o ljudskom biću... Sviđa mi ORIS — Today art wants to have larger audiences, more se što je dizajn kao vrsta kulture pročistio perverznost svije- influence, to have social engagement, not only to be elite… ta i organizirao ga. No s organiziranjem svijeta postali smo ¶ Karim Rashid — I know. I didn’t really mean that. What I jako reduktivni u smislu minimalističke ideje. To bi se moglo meant, as I said, I was calling design democratic art because I nazvati dizajnom. Vidimo stvari kao relativno minimalističke. can do something really beautiful but I can make million but Puno ljudi misli da je to ono što dizajn jest. Ovdje smo, nismo it is not art. So design and art are two different things. Design simetrični i potpuno smo amorfni, potpuno organski i još smo also has a very social agenda. We are really collaborating with prisiljeni biti u ovakvom kartezijanskom svijetu. Svaki puta the company to make something for someone to have a better kada dizajniram, poput stola Zero iza vas, pri svemu što radim, life. Art is a different story. I’m not saying that both can’t have uvijek razmišljam kako će moje tijelo dotaknuti taj predmet messages or both have a dialogue or inform about an issue. ili kako mogu napraviti nešto, čak i kantu za smeće. Prije But the reality is that design is producing repetitive goods that puno godina radio sam plastične kante. Ideja o obliku kante are accessible to a larger audience. You can argue about use. je stvarno dolazila kao produžetak nas kao ljudskih bića, no Art doesn’t have a use, a literal physical use, like your little naravno, puno je drugih funkcija koje su uključene. No zašto espresso cup does. That is the very difference between art and moj svijet ne bi mogao biti mekši, ležerniji i ugodniji? design. I was just saying in another interview I saw my life as a ORIS — I manje opasan. ¶ Karim Rashid — Da, to je nevjero- bit of a pendulum where I have objects separated into art and jatno. Radim puno hotela, zgrada i javnih prostora diljem svijeta utility. If our world existed like that it would be driven just by i shvatio sam koliko je to teško. Nastojim stvarati velika iskustva, engineers and it would be a pretty unemotional world, right? ali moj fokus nije na stylingu ili estetici hotelske sobe. Fokus Postav izložbe: Ideologija ljepote, Exhibition setup: Ideology of Beauty, Design is kind of somewhere in the middle you know, of the je na prekrasnom iskustvu i nevjerojatno je kako je to teško i MSU (Muzej suvremene umjetnosti) MSU (Museum of Contemporary Art) pendulum. If you swing too much to art and then to design, it’s Zagreb, Hrvatska, 2012. Zagreb, Croatia, 2012 koliko ima filtera. completely unsuccessful. So it’s a kind of strange area where (fb) ORIS — Možete li definirati prelazak granice svijeta kojeg you are collaborating and developing something that maybe poznajemo? Je li to je neka vrsta istraživanja novog i onog this idea that art almost has to be done by hand because when economically producible using the right tooling, using the right poznatog? ¶ Karim Rashid — Uistinu ne stvaram u odnosu artists do use machines, generally, not in the art of Jeff Koons materials, distribution. Your eye glasses are designed, they are na riječ funkcija. To je pogrešno, jer kada se uključite, uklju- or Richard Serra or all those, but in general, when an artist has not art and that is just my definition. čujete se na mnogo, mnogo razina – na pravoj emocionalnoj to use a machine there is a fear because the machine can make ORIS — Sure. I would like to see them more intertwined and razini, pravoj logičnoj razini, i tako dalje. Ako počnete koristiti serialized production. It is like – ‘O my God – well then how when they are intertwined then I like them a lot. ¶ Karim Ras- te kriterije, oblikovat ćete nešto novo. Neizbježno ćete učiniti do you call that art?’ There are no originals any more. This is hid — I just saw the show in Tel Aviv’s Design Museum and it nešto novo, a to će biti originalno. a discussion of similar growth. Baudrillard was talking about was all this kind of grand art furniture. It becomes super expen- ORIS — Nadovezujući se na svoju raniju primjedbu o ovoj this years and years ago. For 12 years I have been showing in sive and an ego thing that is really removed from everyday life. vrsti revolucioniranja kartezijanskog svijeta, biste li rekli da će the art world, like my show on right now in New York, using It gets so far away that it is not intertwined any more, it is art. se sam pojam dizajna kakvog smo poznavali dramatično pro- a fantastic technology because I’ve always been obsessed by Remember the artist Felix Gonzalez Torres? He used to do what mijeniti? Kako vidite ovu promjenu? ¶ Karim Rashid — To technology. Every time I do a show I find a new technology to he called democratic art. He would design a poster and when you je veliko pitanje. Danas se većina svijeta, primjerice dizajner- do the show around. And the critics’ articles about my work, came to the show everybody just took one. The guy showed in ska oligarhija, temelji na radu iz 1906. i na Bauhausu. Zapravo, show, criticise me all the time, saying that all I am doing is New York for years. He was doing this idea, almost like democra- Bauhaus je iskoristio stroj do krajnjih granica do kojih može ići, being obsessed by technology. No one in fact is looking at the tic free art and every time he had a show in a gallery you would a stroj je imao ograničenja. Danas strojevi nemaju ograničenja. content of the work because the technology is new. It is an take that poster. It was fabulous. I loved that actually. That is To je svojevrsna suprotnost. Ako imate kreativni um i imate opportunity to do something original. Every time I’ve done my Naslonjač High Roller, High Roller Chaise (kr) the level if you really wanted to bring art to the level of design. stroj, možete učiniti bilo što s njim. Pa ipak, nekako smo još art too, it can be reproduced, even if I destroy a file and say this proizvođač Punkalive, long, Manufactured by ORIS — Can you get back to history a little bit. ¶ Karim Ras- Finska, 2011. Punkalive, Finland, 2011 uvijek ograničeni ovom vrstom modernizma u obrazovanju. original print only exists once. So every art fair I go to around hid — I don’t know anything about history.

174 oris, broj 80, godina 2013 oris, number 80, year 2013 Karim Rashid, Intervju Karim Rashid, Interview 175 Dijamantni kondo, Diamond Condo, ORIS — No, no, it is not a historical discussion. It is not a New York, investitor: NYC, built by HAP discourse of history. I am just wondering. You pursued your HAP Investments, SAD, Investments, USA, 2013., render 2013, render postgraduate studies in Italy. ¶ Karim Rashid — Yes. ORIS — So I would say there are a lot of links, connections, (kr) between your, let’s say, philosophy of design in your design practice and the ideas or concepts of the late seventies’ and early eighties’ philosophy of Italian design. Would you say so? What are the lessons from the Italy of that time? ¶ Karim Rashid — I think that was a pinnacle of the time. I think it was very radical work. It was really a questioning of the status quo. Every object, everything they did was to say ‘Why does a chair have to be like this?’ and that grew actually out of the sixties with UFO and all those kind of avant-garde architects. They were looking at the world in a kind of city scape and saying why do buildings need to be like that, why don’t we ORIS — Spomenuli ste stroj kao simbol za umjetnu proi- re-question all this for good or bad. We need to re-examine zvodnju, a suprotnost tome je ručni rad. Kako biste definirali this. Because I think at that point it was the end of modernism taj odnos danas? ¶ Karim Rashid — Mislim da znate da za and what was missing was a kind of painterly position which is ručni rad nema mjesta u dizajnu, više ne postoji. Ta vrsta je what Italians made then. They are painterly, the Italians, it is nestala. Ono što danas nazivamo zanatom je praksa da netko in their blood so I think they were like ‘Modernism is too ste- radi nešto rukom. Gubimo zanat. Postao je hobi za srednju rile for us,’ because modernism was really being pushed from klasu. Ako pogledate mjesta kao što je Murano, shvatit ćete da Germany and from America. So the Italians were like dying to se zatvara jedna tvornica za drugom jer nema ekonomičnosti have ornamentation or embellishment and texture and colour u ručnoj reprodukciji, zar ne? Svijet umjetnosti je zanimljiv. and other things; probably I picked that up. Skriva se iza ideje izrade. Ne skriva, već štiti pojam ručne izrade. ORIS — But at the same time modernism is a form, maybe Kad Tom Sachs izradi papirnati zrakoplov ili slično, kaže se: even just as a philosophy and was very much accepted in ‘Oh, on je to napravio rukom!’ Svijet umjetnosti perpetuira Italy during Mussolini’s regime, the twenties and thirties, ideju da se umjetnost uvijek mora stvoriti ručno. Kad umjet- almost as state art. ¶ Karim Rashid — It was pretty glo- nici koriste stroj, ali ne na način Jeffa Koonsa i Richarda Serre, bally accepted. nego općenito, kada umjetnik mora koristiti stroj, tu postoji ORIS — Would you say that is also some sort of ideological, strah, jer stroj može napraviti serijsku proizvodnju. Nema više political issue within that like the right/left relation? ¶ Karim originala. Baudrillard je govorio o tome prije mnogo, mnogo Rashid — Oh, sure. godina. Zadnjih dvanaest godina sam imao izložbe u svijetu ORIS — Because most of the guys from the early eighties umjetnosti, kao što je moja trenutna izložba u New Yorku koja were more like left-oriented during the Memphis and Alche- koristi fantastičnu tehnologiju, jer sam oduvijek bio opsjed- mia times. ¶ Karim Rashid — Yeah, exactly. nut tehnologijom. Svaki put kada imam izložbu, pronalazim ORIS — Is there politics in design today? ¶ Karim Ras- novu tehnologiju za izložbu. Članci koji govore o mom radu i hid — There is probably, there is. What it is probably is the izložbama kritiziraju me da sam opsjednut tehnologijom pri fact that the world has been democratised. Because you can svemu što radim. Nitko u stvari ne gleda sadržaj rada jer je go anywhere in the world right now, there are six billion people nova tehnologija. To je prilika da učinite nešto originalno. Svaki and you can almost find the same square or the same watch put kada stvaram svoju umjetnost, nastojim da se ona može or the same car or the same chair – that global village that reproducirati. Sam mogu uništiti nacrt i reći da ova originalna Marshall McLuhan talked about, right? I had him in my first skica postoji samo jedanput. Na svakom umjetničkom sajmu year at university in Canada and what he predicted exists right na svijetu na koji odlazim, a bio sam na mnogima, još uvijek now. In fact I think that is what we are struggling with at ima slikarstva i ručne izrade i iskreno, moje pravo mišljenje o this moment in time and I think the way we are escaping it tome jest da je to bilo lijepo u nekom vremenu, ali sada, u 21. is through the world of imagery. Because of that there is no stoljeću, s tim je gotovo. global village, it is all completely individualised, it’s free, it’s

176 oris, broj 80, godina 2013 oris, number 80, year 2013 Karim Rashid, Intervju Karim Rashid, Interview 177 ORIS — U Londonu postoji Muzej dizajna. Zašto razdvajamo democratic, it’s having a voice, it’s empowering activity. And it umjetnost i dizajn? ¶ Karim Rashid — Moramo ih odvojiti. makes sense in a way. The Italians, we were talking about Itali- Dizajn je za širu publiku, to je stvarnost. Dizajn je reprodukcija. ans, I wouldn’t be designing for a team in the eighties because ORIS — Danas umjetnost želi imati širu javnost, veći utje- only Italians did: the owner was Italian, the engineers were caj, imati društveni angažman, ne biti samo elitna... ¶ Karim Italian and everybody was Italian and the lamp was made their Rashid — Nazvao sam dizajn demokratskom umjetnošću way. Today I’ll make lamp for a team and I am the Egyptian- jer mogu učiniti nešto doista lijepo, ali mogu učiniti milijune English-Canadian-American and the guy I am working with in toga, a to nije umjetnost. Dakle, dizajn i umjetnost su dvije a team is a Dutch engineer and the parts are from Taiwan and različite stvari. Dizajn ima socijalni program. Surađujemo s China and Italy and the assembly is in France. This is globalism tvrtkama kako bismo napravili nešto za nekoga da bi imao really. Even today in Italian design, what are the names in Ita- bolji život. Umjetnost je druga priča. Ne kažem da umjet- lian design since Philippe Starck entered the design world? He nost i dizajn ne mogu imati poruku ili da ne mogu uspostaviti works for every Italian company there is, I work for a thousand dijalog ili informirati o nekom problemu. No stvarnost je da Italian companies. Where are the Italians in all this? But they dizajn proizvodi repetitivne proizvode koji su dostupni široj are Italian companies and the reason that Italian companies publici. Možete zagovarati uporabu. Umjetnost nije uporabna, are making all this is because it seems they are the only people doslovno fizički uporabna, a vaša mala šalica za espresso jest. in the world who care about pushing boundaries in this home To je vrlo velika razlika između umjetnosti i dizajna. U nekom furnishing or whatever you call it. intervjuu sam govorio o tome da vidim svoj život kao njihalo ORIS — Well, on the other hand, I talked to Sandro Gregory, između objekata podijeljenih na umjetnost i uporabnost. Ako remember him? He was one of the founders of Alchemia? bi u našem svijetu postojali samo inženjeri, to bi bio prilično ¶ Karim Rashid — Sure. bezosjećajan svijet, zar ne? Dizajn je na neki način negdje ORIS — He told me a fact that I wasn’t really familiar with. u sredini njihala. Ako njihalo zaljuljate neko vrijeme previše He said in Italy right now foreigners are investing in educa- prema umjetnosti, a drugi put prema dizajnu, rezultat nije tion, especially in design education. There is a lot of American Nhow hotel, Berlin, Nhow hotel, Berlin, (kr) dobar. Na neki način je čudno područje ono u kojem postoji capital upgrading existing design schools, enlarging them ten investitor: NH Hoteles, Built by NH Hoteles, Španjolska, 2010. Spain, 2010 suradnja i gdje se razvija nešto što se može ekonomično times. This is like a huge trend right now in Italy, according proizvesti koristeći prave alate, pomoću pravih materijala i to him of course. ¶ Karim Rashid — In 1984 when I went to distribucije. Vaše naočale su dizajnirane, one nisu umjetnost. do my master’s in Italy there were no design schools, there To je samo moja definicija. were only architectural schools. Design didn’t exist in educa- ORIS — Naravno. Želio bih vidjeti veću isprepletenost umjet- tion. Isn’t that amazing? And in fact Gianfranco Ferre, Romeo ORIS — Rekao bih da postoji puno veza između, primjerice, Kisuy kondo, HAP nosti i dizajna jer mi se to jako sviđa. ¶ Karim Rashid — Baš Gigli, Armani, the whole list, they are all architects, they all filozofije dizajna u vašoj dizajnerskoj praksi i ideja ili konce- Izrael, 2013. sam razgledao izložbu u Muzeju dizajna u Tel Avivu na kojoj studied architecture. Whether it’s a coffee machine or a chair pata s filozofijom talijanskog dizajna s kraja sedamdesetih i Kisuy Condo, HAP je bilo mnogo umjetničkog namještaja. On postaje izuzetno or a dress, there were architects doing all this because there početkom osamdesetih. Slažete se? Koje su pouke iz Italije iz Israel, 2013 skup i stvar ega te je uklonjen iz svakodnevnog života. Tako were no such things as design schools. It is kind of amazing toga vremena? ¶ Karim Rashid — Mislim da je to bio vrhu- je daleko da više ne postoji isprepletenost, nego je to umjet- when you think about it. nac toga vremena. Mislim da je to bio vrlo radikalan rad. To nost. Sjetite se umjetnika Felixa Gonzaleza Torresa. On je radio ORIS — Yes because the design courses were thought mostly je stvarno bilo propitivanje statusa quo. Svaki predmet, sve nešto što je nazivao demokratskom umjetnošću. Dizajnirao in polytechnics, like in Milano, as part of some sort of exten- što su učinili bilo je kao da kažu – ‘Zašto bi stolica morala je plakate i kada biste došli na njegovu izložbu, svatko bi sion to the design curriculum. ¶ Karim Rashid — And you biti ovakva?’ – a to je zapravo proizašlo iz šezdesetih s NLO i uzeo po jedan. Godinama je izlagao u New Yorku. Provodio could go there for five years and never pick up a pencil. You svim tim. Oni su promatrali svijet kroz vizuru grada i propitivali je ideju demokratske, slobodne umjetnosti i svaki put kad je could just read books and write and you could have your zašto zgrade trebaju biti takve, zašto ponovno ne ispitamo imao izložbu u nekoj galeriji, svi bi uzeli po plakat. To je bilo degree in architecture too, all the way from the theoretical sve što je dobro ili loše. Mi to moramo preispitati. Zato mislim nevjerojatno. Sviđalo mi se to jer se radilo o razini na kojoj se to dressmaking. It is quite amazing. da je u tom trenutku nastupio kraj modernizma, a ono što je umjetnost stvarno želi dovesti na razinu dizajna. ORIS — So how did you survive? ¶ Karim Rashid — I went nedostajalo je na neki način slikarska pozicija, a što su Talijani ORIS — Možete li se malo vratiti u povijest. ¶ Karim Ras- to the first design school. That was a one-year programme. tada napravili. Talijani imaju slikarski ustroj, on je u njihovoj hid — Ne znam ništa o povijesti. The school hadn’t been built. Studying was like an hour a day. krvi tako da mislim da su smatrali kako je modernizam previše ORIS — Ne, ovo nije povijesna rasprava. Ne radi se o povi- When I look back I wish it was more rigorous gradual education. sterilan za njih – jer modernizam se promicao iz Njemačke i iz jesnom diskursu. Studirali ste na postdiplomskom studiju u ORIS — I just wanted to maybe make you tell us about your Amerike. Talijani su željeli imati ukras ili ornamentaciju i tek- Italiji? ¶ Karim Rashid — Da. architectural projects because you are working on them quite sturu i boju i druge stvari koje sam vjerojatno pokupio od njih.

178 oris, broj 80, godina 2013 oris, number 80, year 2013 Karim Rashid, Intervju Karim Rashid, Interview 179 ORIS — U isto vrijeme modernizam je forma, možda čak i Stvarno imam potrebu raditi stvari selo, sve je potpuno individualizirano, postoji sloboda, demo- a bit at the moment. ¶ Karim Rashid — Because I made a samo kao filozofija, i bio je vrlo prihvaćen u Italiji tijekom kracija, pravo glasa, aktivnosti osnaživanja. I to na neki način name for myself as a democratic designer, all of a sudden I get Mussolinijeva režima, dvadesetih i tridesetih godina, gotovo koje imaju više značenja. Počeo sam ima smisla. Osamdesetih godina, primjerice, nisam dizajnirao all these projects coming to me now to do them for a really kao državna umjetnost. ¶ Karim Rashid — Bio je prilično više raditi na projektima zaštite oko- za međunarodni tim jer su svi bili Talijani: vlasnik je bio Tali- low budget. And I realised that I am really good at it because in globalno prihvaćen. jan, inženjeri su bili Talijani i svi su bili Talijani i lampa je bila my 30 years in product design, I’ve dealt with so many criteria. ORIS — Želite li reći da postoji neka vrsta ideološkog, poli- liša. Sada projektiram sustav filtracije napravljena na njihov način. Kada danas radim lampu, a ja sam Now when I build a small building I look at every possible way tičkog pitanja unutar tog odnosa desno-lijevo? ¶ Karim Ras- za pitku vodu Egipćanin-Englez, Kanađanin i Amerikanac, i radim u timu gdje of construction and I analyse and I think about, kind of, ways hid — Da, sigurno. je inženjer Nizozemac, dijelovi su iz Tajvana i Kine i Italije, a of making better experiences with less. ORIS — Budući da je većina ljudi iz ranih osamdesetih bila montaža se radi u Francuskoj. To je globalizam. Koja su danas ORIS — Investors love you. ¶ Karim Rashid — All of a sud- više lijevo orijentirana tijekom razdoblja Memphisa i Alche- I really need to do things that have imena u talijanskom dizajnu od kada je Philippe Starck ušao den this last year was blowing up. I did a small building for mije… ¶ Karim Rashid — Da, točno. u svijet dizajna? On radi za svaku talijansku tvrtku, a ja radim a client in Tel Aviv and it’s under construction right now and ORIS — Postoji li danas u dizajnu politika? ¶ Karim Ras- more meaning. So I start to work za tisuću talijanskih tvrtki. Gdje su Talijani u svemu tome? No, they loved it so much that now I am doing three in New York, hid — Vjerojatno da, vjerojatno postoji. Vjerojatno se radi more on environmental projects, to su talijanske tvrtke, a razlog zbog kojeg se tako radi u tali- two in Harlem, all apartment buildings. And I designed 270 o činjenici da se svijet demokratizirao. Budući da možete ići janskim tvrtkama je, čini mi se, da su jedini narod u svijetu apartments in Miami that will be completed in about three bilo kamo, a svijet ima šest milijardi ljudi, gotovo da možete designing right now for example fil- koji se brine za pomicanje granice u uređenju doma ili kako months. These projects are just happening. I know so many pronaći isti trg ili isti sat ili isti auto ili iste stolice – to je tration systems for drinking water god ga zvali. materials. It is easy for me. For example, I find fantastic floo- globalno selo o kojem je govorio Marshall McLuhan, zar ne? ORIS — S druge strane, razgovarao sam sa Sandrom Gre- ring that is one third of the price of the typical wooden floor Predavao mi je na prvoj godini na sveučilištu u Kanadi i ono goryjem, sjećate se njega? Bio je jedan od osnivača Alchemije? people would put in condos and that looks ten times more što je predvidio postoji upravo sada. U stvari, mislim da je to ¶ Karim Rashid — Naravno. interesting and better. So I can do pretty radical work in these ono s čim se borimo u ovom trenutku, a mislim da od toga ORIS — Upozorio me je na činjenicu s kojom nisam bio upo- low budget projects. It’s working out very well. I’m enjoying it bježimo kroz slikovni svijet. Zbog toga ne postoji globalno znat. Rekao je da u Italiji trenutno postoje inozemna ulaganja and also it is a reality. I am thinking you know what, if my sister,

180 oris, broj 80, godina 2013 oris, number 80, year 2013 Karim Rashid, Intervju Karim Rashid, Interview 181 u obrazovanje, posebno u obrazovanje dizajna. Velik dio ame- Stanica podzemne ričkog kapitala dograđuje postojeće škole dizajna povećava- željeznice Sveučilišta u Napulju, Napulj, jući ih deset puta. On smatra da je danas u Italiji to veliki Italija, investitor: trend. ¶ Karim Rashid — Godine 1984., kada sam otišao M. N. Metropolitana di na postdiplomski studij, u Italiji nije bilo studija dizajna, nego Napoli Spa, 2011. samo studij arhitekture. Dizajn u obrazovanju nije postojao. Naples University Nije li to nevjerojatno? U stvari su svi arhitekti, Gianfranco Metro Station, Naples, Built by M. N. Ferré, Romeo Gigli, Armani, studirali arhitekturu. Bilo da je Metropolitana di u pitanju aparat za kavu ili stolica ili haljina, to su sve radili Napoli Spa, Italy, 2011 arhitekti jer nije bilo škole dizajna. To je nevjerojatno. ORIS — Da. Dizajn se podučavao uglavnom na veleučilištima, kao na onome u Milanu, kao neka vrsta proširenja kurikuluma dizajna. ¶ Karim Rashid — Da. Nastavu ste mogli pohađati pet godina i nikada ne uzeti olovku u ruku. Mogli ste samo čitati knjige i pisati i jednako tako dobiti diplomu iz arhitekture, sve od teorije do izrade odjeće. To je prilično nevjerojatno. ORIS — Kako ste preživjeli? ¶ Karim Rashid — Otišao sam u prvu školu dizajna. Bio je to jednogodišnji program. Škola još nije bila sagrađena. Studiralo se otprilike sat dnevno. Kad pogledam unatrag, volio bih da je bilo strože i postupno obrazovanje. ORIS — Možda biste nam mogli reći nešto o svojim arhitek- tonskim projektima jer sada dosta radite na njima. ¶ Karim Rashid — Iz razloga što sam stvorio ime kao demokratski dizajner, odjednom mi dolaze projekti s niskim proračunom. Shvatio sam da sam doista dobar u tome jer sam trideset godina u dizajnu proizvoda i bavio sam se tolikim zahtjevima. Sada, kada gradim manju zgradu, razmatram svaki mogući način izgradnje i analiziram i razmišljam o tome kako na neki način s manje toga stvarati bolje stvari. ORIS — Ulagači vas vole. ¶ Karim Rashid — Prošle godine se odjednom sve povećalo. Radio sam manju stambenu zgradu, koja je sada u izgradnji, za klijenta u Tel Avivu i svima se svi- djela toliko da sad radim tri u New Yorku, dvije u Harlemu. (ib) Projektirao sam 270 stanova u Miamiju, a oni će biti završeni za tri mjeseca. Ovi projekti se baš događaju. Poznajem toliko materijala pa mi je jednostavno. Na primjer, mogu naći fanta- for example, needs an apartment in New York and she is going da sam umoran od sve te dizajnerske kulture jer stojimo na point for me was hitting 50. When I hit 50 I realised that I was stičan pod za trećinu cijene tipičnog drvenog poda koji svi ljudi to get an apartment that is 500 square feet or something like mjestu. Tisuće stolica izgledaju isto, a to za mene više nije tired of this, all the design culture because we are spinning our stavljaju u stanove, a koji izgleda deset puta zanimljivije i bolje. that, I am designing with that kind of idea in mind, can I make a dovoljno. Osjećam da sam postigao dosta. Stvarno imam wheels, there are thousands of chairs that look the same and Dakle, mogu učiniti prilično radikalne stvari u niskobudžetnim really amazing, efficient, nice apartment. In New York, like a lot potrebu raditi stvari koje imaju više značenja. Počeo sam više it is not enough for me anymore. I feel like I’ve accomplished projektima. To se vrlo dobro razvija. Ja u tome uživam i to je of cities, there is luxury and then there is crap. No one is really raditi na projektima zaštite okoliša. Sada projektiram sustav enough. I really need to do things that have more meaning. realnost. Postoje mjesta, džepovi poput Švedske, gdje rade designing that stuff. There are places, pockets like Sweden, filtracije za pitku vodu. Radim sve više socijalnih projekata. So I start to work more on environmental projects, designing lijepe, pristojne, niskobudžetne stambene zgrade, ali općenito some countries that are doing some nice, decent, low-income Radim u Rigi, u Latviji, a projekt će biti za tamošnje beskućnike. right now for example filtration systems for drinking water. nema puno toga. Stvarno je užitak raditi na takvim stvarima, housing and stuff but in general there is not a lot of that. Really Samo sam odaslao poruku da nešto želim učiniti i nekako dobi- I’m doing all these more social projects. I am working in Riga, to je izuzetan posao. it is actually enjoyable to work on, fabulous work. jem posao na tome, što je čudno. Nikome nisam govorio da in Latvia, and it is going to be basically for the homeless there. ORIS — Osjećate li društvenu ulogu dizajna? ¶ Karim Ras- ORIS — Do you feel some social role of design? ¶ Karim želim te stvari, one same dolaze k meni. Htio bih povećati broj So I’ve got all these things. I just send a message out about hid — Naravno. Kad sam navršio pedesetu, shvatio sam Rashid — Of course. As I get older too; I think the turning takvih projekata. Na primjer, dizajniram kolica za invalide i jako something I want to do, and somehow I get to work and that

182 oris, broj 80, godina 2013 oris, number 80, year 2013 Karim Rashid, Intervju Karim Rashid, Interview 183 Postav izložbe: Obrnuti stolić, Ideologija ljepote, MSU ograničena serija, 100 (Muzej suvremene komada, proizvođač: umjetnosti) Zagreb, Base SRL, Italija, 2012. Hrvatska, 2012. Opposite Table, Exhibition setup: limited edition of 100, ‘Ideology of Beauty’, manufactured by Base MSU (Museum of SRL, Italy, 2012 Contemporary Art) Zagreb, Croatia, 2012

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su dobra. Radim na štapu za hodanje koji se pretvara u stolicu is strange, I didn’t tell anybody I wanted these things, they me svi mrziti zbog te knjige, ali zapravo to je bila priprema za and that’s exciting for me. History keeps repeating, making za starije osobe, jer Amerika ima 60 milijuna ljudi u mirovini, a just came to me. I want to heighten that stuff. For example, moju karijeru. nice things. Zapadna Europa 58 milijuna zbog baby boom generacije. Svi ti right now I am designing a walker for the handicapped and I’m ORIS — Volio bih od vas čuti revalorizaciju toga što ste učinili ORIS — You published your mission statementin 2001. ljudi su odrasli s dizajnom. U tome je stvar. I ja sam odrastao making one so cool. And I am making a cane that turns into u međuvremenu i što je svijet danas. Što biste voljeli pro- ¶ Karim Rashid — The world came down on me for that uz dizajn i sad postajem stariji i život će mi postati teži. Koji a chair for the elderly because America just had 60 million mijeniti u njemu? ¶ Karim Rashid — Postoji toliko toga što one. I didn’t then realise that everybody would hate me for su to proizvodi dizajna namijenjeni meni? Nitko ih ne radi. To people retire and Western Europe 58 million because of the bih želio promijeniti. that book but actually it prepped my career. je nevjerojatno. baby booms and all these people were brought up with design. ORIS — Dakle, vaš rad do sada i onaj koji je pred vama. ORIS — I just want to hear from you some sort of re-eva- ORIS — Mogu li rezervirati jedan od njih? ¶ Karim Ras- This is the thing. And I was brought up by design and now I ¶ Karim Rashid — Ne znam ni gdje bih počeo. Mislim da luation right now: what have you done in the meantime and hid — Kada pogledate te predmete, pomislite da su zastra- am aging and life is going to get more difficult, what are the je moja misija na neki način bila pokušati učiniti dizajn više what in the world of today would you like to change? ¶ Karim šujući, sablažnjavajući. Nama je lako samo proći kraj njih i reći design products for me? No one is doing them. It is amazing. javnom temom pisanjem i seminarima putem kojih pokušavam Rashid — There is so much I would like to change. – ‘Ah, to nisam ja!’ – ali onda, odjednom, prije godinu i pol ORIS — Can I book one of these? ¶ Karim Rashid — If you reći svijetu da je dizajn dobra stvar za nas, da je to prednost ORIS — So, the work so far and the work that is in front dana sam imao rak i bio je težak, tvrdokoran i mogao sam look at those objects, they are the most frightening, horren- za naš život i tako obavljam svoju misiju. Ne znam koliko sam of you. ¶ Karim Rashid — Well, I don’t even know where završiti hendikepiran zbog toga, ali nekako sam imao sreće. dous things. It’s easy for us to walk by and say, ‘Nah, that’s not promicao i objavljivao u tom smislu, tako da se čak ne radi to start. I think that my mission in a way was to try to make Odjednom sam postao vrlo svjestan drugog svijeta. Mislim me,’ then all of a sudden, a year and a half ago I had cancer and toliko o fizičkim predmetima koje radim koliko o porukama design more of a public subject. The amount of writing I do da kao umjetnik tragam za tim. Tražim mogućnosti. Možemo it was a difficult, tough one and I could have ended up quite koje pokušavam poslati. Imam jako veliki broj sljedbenika, a to and the amount of seminars, trying to tell the world that pronaći novu tehnologiju, i ja mogu biti jako kreativan i to mi je handicapped from it. Somehow I was really lucky of all things je odgovornost koju pokušavam iskoristiti. Bio sam neki dan u design is a good thing for us, it benefits our lives and that uzbudljivo. Povijest se stalno ponavlja i stvara lijepe predmete. but it made me all of a sudden highly aware of that world. I Moskvi i na jednom mom predavanju bilo je tri tisuće ljudi, a na has been my mission. I don’t know how much I’ve pushed and ORIS — U 2001. godini objavili ste svoju misiju. ¶ Karim Ras- think, as an artist, we kind of look for opportunities, we find drugom mjestu sam se susreo s njih stotinjak tako da stalno published in this regard so it’s not even as much through the hid — Svijet me napao zbog toga. Nisam tada shvaćao da će a new technology, ‘Wow I can be really creative with that,’ promičem svoje ideje. Ne govorim im o svom radu, govorim physical things I do as much as the messages I’m trying to

184 oris, broj 80, godina 2013 oris, number 80, year 2013 Karim Rashid, Intervju tadao ando, Naoshima 185 Dakle, dizajn i umjetnost su dvije send. And my following, I have a very big following and I think that is a responsibility and I take advantage of that. I went to različite stvari. Dizajn ima socijalni Moscow the other day and I had 3000 people in a lecture and program in another place I met hundreds so I’m just pushing, I’m telling people. I am not talking about my work; I am saying how they can make a better world. I think that we can shape a world So design and art are two different that is based on beautiful proficiency of deficiency. I think we can beautify this world. This world used to be more beautiful, things. Design also has a very social no question about that. We have been obsessed with beauty agenda for 20,000 years as human beings. There is no reason why we shouldn’t continue that. That is a need, you could argue it’s a given primordial need, to create beauty. And the third part of kako oni mogu stvoriti bolji svijet. Mislim da možemo obliko- it is to make the world more human where we care about each vati svijet koji se temelji na prekrasnoj vještini i učinkovitosti. other. That’s top of the agenda: bring down the borders and Mislim da možemo uljepšati ovaj svijet. Nema sumnje da je boundaries and forget all these differences of race, colour. The ovaj svijet bio ljepši. Ljudska bića opsjednuta su ljepotom već vision is always the start and it is already happening because 20 000 godina. Nema razloga zašto ne bismo trebali nastaviti of that. It is so amazing that I can run around New York with s tim uvjerenjem. To je potreba, moglo bi se tvrditi da je to my fingerprint, I can buy things with my fingerprint, go to the iskonska potreba za stvaranjem ljepote. Svijet bi trebao postati gym with my fingerprint. That is something I wanted to do for humaniji, takav u kome se više brinemo jedni o drugima. Naj- years. I tried to push it in every hotel I did, I tried to push a važnije je obarati granice i ograničenja i zaboraviti sve razlike fingerprint in the work and everybody was so reluctant –aaah, u rasi i boji kože. Vizija je uvijek početak i zbog toga se to već identity crash. I go to the gym now and what’s the deal? That događa. Toliko je nevjerojatno da mogu trčati uokolo New is a breaking down, it’s not even anymore that you are black Yorkom sa svojim otiskom prsta, da mogu kupiti stvari pomoću or white or anything. It’s the fact that we are different beca- otiska prsta, ići u teretanu s otiskom. To je nešto što sam želio use of this. We are not different as collectives anymore, we učiniti već godinama. Pokušao sam promicati otisak na poslu i are different as individuals and I love that idea. I love the idea svi su bili jako protiv toga - gubitak identiteta. Idem u teretanu that the world would be 6.7 billion different people but there i što je problem? To nije čak stvar toga da ste crni ili bijeli ili would be no borders, boundaries, wars, politics. We should be tako nešto. To je činjenica da smo zbog toga drugačiji. Ne all here to contribute, to do something better for everybody razlikujemo se više kao kolektivi, razlikujemo se kao pojedinci and you find our way to contribute. One place could be that i meni se ta ideja sviđa. Sviđa mi se ideja da u svijetu ima 6,7 you write, another place could be that you paint, another place milijardi različitih ljudi, ali da ne postoje granice, ograničenja, that you curate, another place could be that you are a scien- ratovi, politike. Svi bismo trebali biti ovdje kako bismo dali svoj tist, doctor, school teacher, whatever, if you are all adding in doprinos i učinili nešto bolje za svakoga i našli svoj put. Jedan an evolving humanity. We could do that peacefully. I don’t način mogao bi biti kroz pisanje, drugi način bi mogao biti kroz think it’s that hard. slikarstvo ili da ste kustos ili znanstvenik, liječnik, učitelj. Nije važan način ako se tako razvija čovječanstvo. Mogli bismo to učiniti mirno. Ne mislim da je to teško.

186 oris, broj 80, godina 2013 oris, number 80, year 2013 Karim Rashid, Intervju Karim Rashid, Interview 187