COMMONWEALTH OF

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

Senate Official Hansard No. 3, 2011 Monday, 21 March 2011

FORTY-THIRD PARLIAMENT FIRST SESSION—SECOND PERIOD

BY AUTHORITY OF THE SENATE

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FORTY-THIRD PARLIAMENT FIRST SESSION—SECOND PERIOD

Governor-General Her Excellency Ms Quentin Bryce, Companion of the Order of Australia

Senate Officeholders President—Senator Hon. John Joseph Hogg Deputy President and Chair of Committees—Senator Hon. Alan Baird Ferguson Temporary Chairs of Committees—Senators Guy Barnett, Thomas Mark Bishop, Suzanne Kay Boyce, Patricia Margaret Crossin, Mary Jo Fisher, Michael George Forshaw, Annette Kay Hurley, Stephen Patrick Hutchins, Helen Evelyn Kroger, Scott Ludlam, Gavin Mark Marshall, Julian John James McGauran, Claire Mary Moore, Louise Clare Pratt, Hon. Judith Mary Troeth and Russell Brunell Trood Leader of the Government in the Senate—Senator Hon. Christopher Vaughan Evans Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate—Senator Hon. Stephen Michael Conroy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate—Senator Hon. Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate—Senator Hon. George Henry Brandis SC Manager of Government Business in the Senate—Senator Hon. Joseph William Ludwig Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate—Senator Mitchell Peter Fifield

Senate Party Leaders and Whips Leader of Labor Party—Senator Hon. Christopher Vaughan Evans Deputy Leader of the —Senator Hon. Stephen Michael Conroy Leader of the Liberal Party of Australia— Senator Hon. Eric Abetz Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party of Australia— Senator Hon. George Henry Brandis SC Leader of the Nationals—Senator Barnaby Thomas Gerard Joyce Deputy Leader of the Nationals—Senator Leader of the —Senator Robert James Brown Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens—Senator Christine Anne Milne Leader of the —Senator Steve Fielding Chief Government Whip—Senator Anne McEwen Deputy Government Whips—Senators Carol Louise Brown and Helen Beatrice Polley Chief Opposition Whip—Senator Stephen Shane Parry Deputy Opposition Whips—Senators Judith Anne Adams and David Christopher Bushby The Nationals Whip—Senator John Reginald Williams Australian Greens Whip—Senator Rachel Mary Siewert Family First Party Whip—Senator Steve Fielding

Printed by authority of the Senate

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Members of the Senate Senator State or Territory Term expires Party Abetz, Hon. Eric TAS 30.6.2011 LP Adams, Judith Anne WA 30.6.2011 LP Arbib, Hon. Mark Victor NSW 30.6.2014 ALP Back, Christopher John (3) WA 30.6.2011 LP Barnett, Guy TAS 30.6.2011 LP Bernardi, Cory SA 30.6.2014 LP Bilyk, Catryna Louise TAS 30.6.2014 ALP Birmingham, Simon John SA 30.6.2014 LP Bishop, Thomas Mark WA 30.6.2014 ALP Boswell, Hon. Ronald Leslie Doyle QLD 30.6.2014 NATS Boyce, Suzanne Kay QLD 30.6.2014 LP Brandis, Hon. George Henry SC QLD 30.6.2011 LP Brown, Carol Louise TAS 30.6.2014 ALP Brown, Robert James TAS 30.6.2014 AG Bushby, David Christopher TAS 30.6.2014 LP Cameron, Douglas Niven NSW 30.6.2014 ALP Carr, Hon. Kim John VIC 30.6.2011 ALP Cash, Michaelia Clare WA 30.6.2014 LP Colbeck, Hon. Richard Mansell TAS 30.6.2014 LP Collins, Jacinta Mary Ann VIC 30.6.2014 ALP Conroy, Hon. Stephen Michael VIC 30.6.2011 ALP Coonan, Hon. Helen Lloyd NSW 30.6.2014 LP Cormann, Mathias Hubert Paul (2) WA 30.6.2011 LP Crossin, Patricia Margaret (4) NT ALP Eggleston, Alan WA 30.6.2014 LP Evans, Hon. Christopher Vaughan WA 30.6.2011 ALP Farrell, Donald Edward SA 30.6.2014 ALP Faulkner, Hon. John Philip NSW 30.6.2011 ALP Feeney, David Ian VIC 30.6.2014 ALP Ferguson, Hon. Alan Baird SA 30.6.2011 LP Fielding, Steve VIC 30.6.2011 FF Fierravanti-Wells, Concetta Anna NSW 30.6.2011 LP Fifield, Mitchell Peter VIC 30.6.2014 LP Fisher, Mary Jo (1) SA 30.6.2011 LP Forshaw, Michael George NSW 30.6.2011 ALP Furner, Mark Lionel QLD 30.6.2014 ALP Hanson-Young, Sarah Coral SA 30.6.2014 AG Heffernan, Hon. William Daniel NSW 30.6.2011 LP Hogg, Hon. John Joseph QLD 30.6.2014 ALP Humphries, Gary John Joseph (4) ACT LP Hurley, Annette Kay SA 30.6.2011 ALP Hutchins, Stephen Patrick NSW 30.6.2011 ALP Johnston, Hon. David Albert Lloyd WA 30.6.2014 LP Joyce, Barnaby Thomas Gerard QLD 30.6.2011 NATS Kroger, Helen VIC 30.6.2014 LP Ludlam, Scott WA 30.6.2014 AG Ludwig, Hon. Joseph William QLD 30.6.2011 ALP Lundy, Kate Alexandra (4) ACT ALP Macdonald, Hon. Ian Douglas QLD 30.6.2014 LP McEwen, Anne SA 30.6.2011 ALP ii

Senator State or Territory Term expires Party McGauran, Julian John James VIC 30.6.2011 LP McLucas, Hon. Jan Elizabeth QLD 30.6.2011 ALP Marshall, Gavin Mark VIC 30.6.2014 ALP Mason, Hon. Brett John QLD 30.6.2011 LP Milne, Christine Anne TAS 30.6.2011 AG Minchin, Hon. Nicholas Hugh SA 30.6.2011 LP Moore, Claire Mary QLD 30.6.2014 ALP Nash, Fiona Joy NSW 30.6.2011 NATS O’Brien, Kerry Williams Kelso TAS 30.6.2011 ALP Parry, Stephen Shane TAS 30.6.2011 LP Payne, Marise Ann NSW 30.6.2014 LP Polley, Helen Beatrice TAS 30.6.2011 ALP Pratt, Louise Clare WA 30.6.2014 ALP Ronaldson, Hon. Michael VIC 30.6.2011 LP Ryan, Scott Michael VIC 30.6.2014 LP Scullion, Hon. Nigel Gregory (4) NT CLP Sherry, Hon. Nicholas John TAS 30.6.2014 ALP Siewert, Rachel Mary WA 30.6.2011 AG Stephens, Hon. Ursula Mary NSW 30.6.2014 ALP Sterle, Glenn WA 30.6.2011 ALP Troeth, Hon. Judith Mary VIC 30.6.2011 LP Trood, Russell Brunell QLD 30.6.2011 LP Williams, John Reginald NSW 30.6.2014 NATS Wong, Hon. Penelope Ying Yen SA 30.6.2014 ALP Wortley, Dana Johanna SA 30.6.2011 ALP Xenophon, Nicholas SA 30.6.2014 IND (1) Chosen by the Parliament of South Australia to fill a casual vacancy vice Amanda Eloise Vanstone, resigned. (2) Chosen by the Parliament of Western Australia to fill a casual vacancy vice Ian Campbell, resigned. (3) Chosen by the Parliament of Western Australia to fill a casual vacancy vice Christopher Martin Ellison, resigned. (4) Term expires at close of day next preceding the polling day for the general election of members of the House of Representatives.

PARTY ABBREVIATIONS AG—Australian Greens; ALP—Australian Labor Party; CLP—; FF—Family First Party; LP—Liberal Party of Australia; NATS—The Nationals Heads of Parliamentary Departments Clerk of the Senate—R Laing Clerk of the House of Representatives—B Wright Secretary, Department of Parliamentary Services—A Thompson

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GILLARD MINISTRY Prime Minister Hon. MP Deputy Prime Minister and Treasurer Hon. MP Minister for Regional Australia, Regional Development and Hon. Simon Crean MP Local Government Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Jobs and Workplace Senator Hon. Chris Evans Relations and Leader of the Government in the Senate Minister for School Education, Early Childhood and Youth Hon. Peter Garrett AM MP Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Senator Hon. Stephen Conroy Economy and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate Minister for Foreign Affairs Hon. Kevin Rudd MP Minister for Trade Hon. Dr Craig Emerson MP Minister for Defence and Deputy Leader of the House Hon. Stephen Smith MP Minister for Immigration and Citizenship Hon. MP Minister for Infrastructure and Transport and Leader of the Hon. MP House Minister for Health and Ageing Hon. Nicola Roxon MP Minister for Families, Housing, Community Services and Hon. Jenny Macklin MP Indigenous Affairs Minister for Sustainability, Environment, Water, Population and Hon. MP Communities Minister for Finance and Deregulation Senator Hon. Penny Wong Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research Senator Hon. Kim Carr Attorney-General and Vice President of the Executive Council Hon. Robert McClelland MP Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry and Manager of Senator Hon. Joe Ludwig Government Business in the Senate Minister for Resources and Energy and Minister for Tourism Hon. Martin Ferguson AM, MP Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency Hon. Greg Combet AM, MP

[The above ministers constitute the cabinet]

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GILLARD MINISTRY—continued Minister for the Arts Hon. Simon Crean MP Minister for Social Inclusion Hon. MP Minister for Privacy and Freedom of Information Hon. Brendan O’Connor MP Minister for Sport Senator Hon. Mark Arbib Special Minister of State for the Public Service and Integrity Hon. Gary Gray AO, MP Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Financial Services and Hon. Bill Shorten MP Superannuation Minister for Employment Participation and Childcare Hon. Kate Ellis MP Minister for Indigenous Employment and Economic Senator Hon. Mark Arbib Development Minister for Veterans’ Affairs and Minister for Defence Science Hon. MP and Personnel Minister for Defence Materiel Hon. MP Minister for Indigenous Health Hon. Warren Snowdon MP Minister for Mental Health and Ageing Hon. Mark Butler MP Minister for the Status of Women Hon. Kate Ellis MP Minister for Social Housing and Homelessness Senator Hon. Mark Arbib Special Minister of State Hon. Gary Gray AO, MP Minister for Small Business Senator Hon. Nick Sherry Minister for Home Affairs and Minister for Justice Hon. Brendan O’Connor MP Minister for Human Services Hon. Tanya Plibersek MP Cabinet Secretary Hon. Mark Dreyfus QC, MP to the Prime Minister Senator Hon. Kate Lundy Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasurer Hon. David Bradbury MP Parliamentary Secretary for School Education and Workplace Senator Hon. Jacinta Collins Relations Minister Assisting the Prime Minister on Digital Productivity Senator Hon. Stephen Conroy Parliamentary Secretary for Trade Hon. MP Parliamentary Secretary for Pacific Island Affairs Hon. Richard Marles MP Parliamentary Secretary for Defence Senator Hon. David Feeney Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration and Citizenship Senator Hon. Kate Lundy Parliamentary Secretary for Infrastructure and Transport and Hon. Catherine King MP Parliamentary Secretary for Health and Ageing Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities and Carers Senator Hon. Jan McLucas Parliamentary Secretary for Community Services Hon. Julie Collins MP Parliamentary Secretary for Sustainability and Urban Water Senator Hon. Don Farrell Minister Assisting on Deregulation and Public Sector Senator Hon. Nick Sherry Superannuation Minister Assisting the Attorney-General on Floods Sentor Hon. Joe Ludwig Recovery Parliamentary Secretary for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry Hon. Dr Mike Kelly AM, MP Minister Assisting the Minister for Tourism Senator Hon. Nick Sherry Parliamentary Secretary for Climate Change and Energy Hon. Mark Dreyfus QC, MP Efficiency

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SHADOW MINISTRY Leader of the Opposition Hon. MP Deputy Leader of the Opposition and Shadow Minister for Hon. MP Foreign Affairs and Shadow Minister for Trade Leader of the Nationals and Shadow Minister for Hon. Warren Truss MP Infrastructure and Transport Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and Shadow Minister Senator Hon. Eric Abetz for Employment and Workplace Relations Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and Shadow Senator Hon. SC Attorney-General and Shadow Minister for the Arts Shadow Treasurer Hon. MP Shadow Minister for Education, Apprenticeships and Training Hon. MP and Manager of Opposition Business in the House Shadow Minister for Indigenous Affairs and Deputy Leader of Senator Hon. the Nationals Shadow Minister for Regional Development, Local Senator Government and Water and Leader of the Nationals in the Senate Shadow Minister for Finance, Deregulation and Debt Hon. AO, MP Reduction and Chairman, Policy Development Committee Shadow Minister for Energy and Resources Hon. Ian Macfarlane MP Shadow Minister for Defence Senator Hon. David Johnston Shadow Minister for Communications and Broadband Hon. MP Shadow Minister for Health and Ageing Hon. MP Shadow Minister for Families, Housing and Human Services Hon. Kevin Andrews MP Shadow Minister for Climate Action, Environment and Hon. MP Heritage Shadow Minister for Productivity and Population and Shadow Mr MP Minister for Immigration and Citizenship Shadow Minister for Innovation, Industry and Science Mrs Sophie Mirabella MP Shadow Minister for Agriculture and Food Security Hon. John Cobb MP Shadow Minister for Small Business, Competition Policy and Hon. MP Consumer Affairs

[The above constitute the shadow cabinet]

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SHADOW MINISTRY—continued Shadow Minister for Employment Participation Hon. MP Shadow Minister for Justice, Customs and Border Mr Michael Keenan MP Protection Shadow Assistant Treasurer and Shadow Minister for Senator Financial Services and Superannuation Shadow Minister for Childcare and Early Childhood Hon. Sussan Ley MP Learning Shadow Minister for Universities and Research Senator Hon. Shadow Minister for Youth and Sport and Deputy Manager Mr MP of Opposition Business in the House Shadow Minister for Indigenous Development and Senator Employment Shadow Minister for Regional Development Hon. MP Shadow Special Minister of State Hon. Bronwyn Bishop MP Shadow Minister for COAG Senator Marise Payne Shadow Minister for Tourism Hon. Bob Baldwin MP Shadow Minister for Defence Science, Technology and Mr MP Personnel Shadow Minister for Veterans’ Affairs and Shadow Senator Hon. Minister Assisting the Leader of the Opposition on the Centenary of ANZAC Shadow Minister for Regional Communications Mr Luke Hartsuyker MP Shadow Minister for Ageing and Shadow Minister for Senator Concetta Fierravanti-Wells Mental Health Shadow Minister for Seniors Hon. Bronwyn Bishop MP Shadow Minister for Disabilities, Carers and the Voluntary Senator Sector and Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate Shadow Minister for Housing Senator Marise Payne Chairman, Scrutiny of Government Waste Committee Mr MP Shadow Cabinet Secretary Hon. Philip Ruddock MP Shadow Parliamentary Secretary Assisting the Leader of Senator Cory Bernardi the Opposition Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for International Hon. Teresa Gambaro MP Development Assistance Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Roads and Regional Mr MP Transport Shadow Parliamentary Secretary to the Shadow Attorney- Senator Gary Humphries General Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Tax Reform and Hon. Tony Smith MP Deputy Chairman, Coalition Policy Development Committee Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Regional Education Senator Fiona Nash Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Northern and Remote Senator Hon. Ian Macdonald Australia Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Local Government Mr Don Randall MP Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Murray-Darling Senator Basin Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Defence Materiel Senator Gary Humphries Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Defence Force and Senator Hon. Ian Macdonald Defence Support vii

SHADOW MINISTRY—continued Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Primary Healthcare Dr Andrew Southcott MP Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Regional Health Mr Andrew Laming MP Services and Indigenous Health Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Supporting Families Senator Cory Bernardi Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Status of Women Senator Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Environment Senator Simon Birmingham Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Citizenship and Hon. Teresa Gambaro MP Settlement Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration Senator Michaelia Cash Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Innovation, Industry, Senator Hon. and Science Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Fisheries and Forestry Senator Hon. Richard Colbeck Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Small Business and Senator Scott Ryan Fair Competition

viii CONTENTS

MONDAY, 21 MARCH Chamber Committees— Environment and Communications Legislation Committee—Meeting ...... 1201 Senators’ Interests Committee...... 1201 Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity Committee—Meeting ...... 1201 National Broadband Network Companies Bill 2010 ...... 1201 Telecommunications Legislation Amendment (National Broadband Network Measures—Access Arrangements) Bill 2011— Second Reading...... 1201 Business— Rearrangement...... 1232 Defence Legislation Amendment (Security of Defence Premises) Bill 2010— Second Reading...... 1232 Third Reading...... 1233 Australian Civilian Corps Bill 2010— Second Reading...... 1233 In Committee...... 1239 Third Reading...... 1241 Business— Consideration of Legislation ...... 1241 Screen Australia (Transfer of Assets) Bill 2010— Second Reading...... 1242 Third Reading...... 1243 Business— Rearrangement...... 1243 Corporations and Other Legislation Amendment (Trustee Companies and Other Measures) Bill 2011— Second Reading...... 1243 Third Reading...... 1243 Business— Rearrangement...... 1244 Health Insurance Amendment (Compliance) Bill 2010— Second Reading...... 1244 Third Reading...... 1251 Sex and Age Discrimination Legislation Amendment Bill 2010— Second Reading...... 1251 Ministerial Arrangements ...... 1258 Questions Without Notice— Australian Greens ...... 1260 Distinguished Visitors...... 1262 Questions Without Notice— Libya...... 1262 Carbon Pricing...... 1263 Japan Natural Disasters ...... 1265 Carbon Pricing...... 1266 Indigenous Health...... 1268 Taxation...... 1269 Economy...... 1270 Asylum Seekers...... 1272

CONTENTS—continued

Indigenous Employment...... 1273 Questions Without Notice: Additional Answers— Edwards, Lance Corporal Mason ...... 1274 Questions Without Notice: Take Note of Answers— Immigration...... 1275 Indigenous Health...... 1281 Japan Natural Disasters...... 1283 New Zealand Earthquake...... 1288 Notices— Presentation ...... 1292 Leave of Absence...... 1297 Business— Rearrangement...... 1297 Committees— Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee—Meeting...... 1297 Gambling Reform Committee—Meeting...... 1297 Privileges Committee—Reference ...... 1297 Native Title Amendment (Reform) Bill 2011— First Reading ...... 1298 Second Reading...... 1298 Asian Honey Bee ...... 1307 Matters of Public Importance— Carbon Pricing...... 1309 Documents— Tabling...... 1323 Committees— Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee— Report: Government Response...... 1323 Committees— Consideration...... 1328 Documents— Tabling...... 1328 Tabling...... 1328 Parliamentary Zone— Proposal for Works ...... 1328 Committees— Scrutiny of New Taxes—Report...... 1328 Treaties Committee—Report...... 1328 National Broadband Network Committee ...... 1329 Procedure Committee—Membership...... 1329 Australian Research Council Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2010— First Reading ...... 1329 Second Reading...... 1330 Schools Assistance Amendment (Financial Assistance) Bill 2011— First Reading ...... 1331 Second Reading...... 1331 Evidence Amendment (Journalists’ Privilege) Bill 2010 ...... 1332 National Health and Hospitals Network Bill 2010— Returned from the House of Representatives ...... 1332

CONTENTS—continued

Committees— National Broadband Network Committee—Resolution of Appointment...... 1332 Aviation Crimes and Policing Legislation Amendment Bill 2010 [2011] ...... 1332 Crimes Legislation Amendment Bill 2010 [2011]...... 1332 Law and Justice Legislation Amendment (Identity Crimes and Other Measures) Bill 2010 [2011]— Assent ...... 1332 Committees— Environment and Communications Legislation Committee—Rearrangement ...... 1332 National Vocational Education and Training Regulator Bill 2010 [2011]— Report of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations Legislation Committee...1333 Combating the Financing of People Smuggling and Other Measures Bill 2011— Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee—Report ...... 1333 Tax Laws Amendment (Temporary Flood and Cyclone Reconstruction Levy) Bill 2011— Report of Economics Legislation Committee ...... 1333 Business— Rearrangement...... 1333 Tax Laws Amendment (Temporary Flood and Cyclone Reconstruction Levy) Bill 2011...1334 Income Tax Rates Amendment (Temporary Flood and Cyclone Reconstruction Levy) Bill 2011— Second Reading...... 1334 In Committee...... 1346 Adjournment— Military Service...... 1371 Iraq ...... 1373 Meningococcal Disease...... 1376 Documents— Tabling...... 1377 Indexed Lists of Departmental and Agency Files...... 1382 Departmental and Agency Contracts ...... 1382 Questions on Notice Defence: Hospitality—(Question Nos 117 to 119)...... 1383 Strategic Indigenous Housing and Infrastructure Program—(Question No. 217)...... 1383 Christmas Island Resort Pty Ltd—(Question No. 372)...... 1384 Christmas Island—(Question No. 373) ...... 1385 Christmas Island—(Question No. 374) ...... 1386 Christmas Island—(Question No. 375) ...... 1387 Australian Communications and Media Authority—(Question No. 385) ...... 1387 Child Support—(Question No. 2800)...... 1388

Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1201

Monday, 21 March 2011 NATIONAL BROADBAND NETWORK ————— COMPANIES BILL 2010 The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. TELECOMMUNICATIONS John Hogg) took the chair at 10 am and read LEGISLATION AMENDMENT prayers and made an acknowledgement of (NATIONAL BROADBAND NETWORK country. MEASURES—ACCESS COMMITTEES ARRANGEMENTS) BILL 2011 Environment and Communications Second Reading Legislation Committee Debate resumed from 2 March, on motion Meeting by Senator Jacinta Collins: Senator McEWEN (South Australia) That these bills be now read a second time. (10.01 am)—by leave—On behalf of Senator Senator BIRMINGHAM (South Austra- Cameron, the chair of the Senate Environ- lia) (10.02 am)—As the first speaker on a ment and Communications Legislation Monday morning in this place it would usu- Committee, I move: ally be a pleasure to rise and say, ‘It is a That the Environment and Communications pleasure to speak on this legislation.’ Unfor- Legislation Committee be authorised to hold a tunately, however, this is flawed legislation private meeting otherwise than in accordance designed to pursue and implement a bad pol- with standing order 33(1) during the sitting of the icy. It is not a pleasure to do so, because it is Senate today. disappointing to once again be in this place Question agreed to. debating a matter in which the government is Senators’ Interests Committee attempting to spend billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars. By doing so, this govern- Australian Commission for Law ment will plunge this nation further into debt Enforcement Integrity Committee and it will create a giant new taxpayer Meeting funded monopoly on the basis of its belief Senator PARRY (Tasmania) (10.01 that this is the only way to provide faster am)—by leave—on behalf of respective broadband services for Australians when committees, I move: there are in fact many other ways. That–– I speak, of course, of the National Broad- (a) the Standing Committee of Senators’ Inter- band Network and the National Broadband ests be authorised to meet during the sitting Network Companies Bill 2011 and the Tele- of the Senate today, from 10 am, for a private communications Legislation Amendment briefing; and (National Broadband Network Measures— (b) the Parliamentary Joint Committee on the Access Arrangements) Bill 2011. For the Australian Commission for Law Enforce- NBN, as it has become known, to be built it ment Integrity be authorised to hold a public will require around $27 billion in equity meeting during the sitting of the Senate to- funding from the Commonwealth govern- day, from 12.30 pm. ment. The NBN Co. will need to borrow a Question agreed to. further $10 billion to roll out the network. In addition, the NBN Co. is currently in a much-delayed negotiation with over a further deal for access to Telstra equipment and a transfer of infrastructure that is worth

CHAMBER 1202 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 around $11 billion. All up, this is about a $50 ket failure and ensuring that it spends tax- billion venture that the government is in- payers’ money wisely in the places where volved in. fast broadband does not currently reach and It is worth the chamber reflecting on that probably will never reach on a commercial for just a moment—$50 billion. This will all basis. That is where there is room for gov- be funded, one way or another, by debt ernment investment—targeted, careful gov- through the $27 billion that the government ernment investment focused on the people will be borrowing—because it is already in who might otherwise miss out. But no—this debt and deficit—to pump equity into the government sees the need to do the whole lot NBN and it will be a debt that every Austra- itself in this massive wasteful exercise. This lian family and taxpayer will directly owe. is why it is a disappointment to speak on this The NBN Co. will raise $10 billion by bor- legislation this morning because we will see rowing from the equity market. It is not seek- tens of billions of dollars of debt unnecessar- ing equity investments and it is not seeking ily borrowed and spent to build something investors—it will simply borrow $10 billion that could be done in a properly regulated from the financial markets. That will be debt private infrastructure investment arrange- that a 100 per cent government owned com- ment. pany will owe. The funds provided to Telstra I will turn to these two bills that are before will overwhelmingly need to be borrowed— us today. The National Broadband Network whether it is $11 billion, $12 billion or $13 Companies Bill 2010 governs the ownership, billion. We do not know the nature of that operations and legal status of the NBN Co.— arrangement with Telstra, but what we do the Commonwealth owned builder and op- know is that that money will need to be bor- erator of this broadband network. It limits rowed by NBN Co. for it to be able to pay NBN Co. to business activities directly re- Telstra. lated to supplying wholesale communica- Basically, what we have here is a $50 bil- tions services—or, at least, that is what the lion debt package from this government to government claims. I will shortly turn to roll out fibre across the country in the ficti- some of those claims that highlight the flaws tious belief that this is the only way it can get evident in this bill. It also sets out some of reasonable broadband services to all Austra- the conditions for the possible privatisation lians. Let me state again, as I have stated in of this network. I will also turn to some of this chamber many times before, and as Mr those issues shortly. Turnbull, Mr Abbott and others have stated, The Telecommunications Legislation that the coalition believes that it should be a Amendment (National Broadband Network government priority to ensure that all Austra- Measures—Access Arrangements) Bill 2011 lians have access to fast, affordable and reli- amends the Competition and Consumer Act able broadband services. 2010 and the Telecommunications Act 1997. The truth is that many Australians already It requires NBN Co. to provide open and do have those services. This government is non-discriminatory access to retail carriers going to spend billions of dollars duplicating using its wholesale services and imposes services and infrastructure that are already access rules on NBN Co. and NBN- there, and rolling it out to people and places compatible technical requirements on non- that already enjoy faster broadband, rather NBN fibre rollouts. Once again, I will turn to than focusing its efforts in the areas of mar- some of those issues where the coalition has particular concerns with this legislation.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1203

I say that it is flawed because the legisla- nately, the recommendation in the Senate tion does not deliver what the government committee’s report and the amendment pro- promises—far from it. The government pro- posed by the Australian Greens has the effect claims that this will be a wholesale only of making the NBN completely immune in network, yet it leaves scope for mission practical terms from the Freedom of Infor- creep in the NBN’s activities. It leaves scope mation Act. The amendment proposed by the for the NBN Co. to start to provide retail Australian Greens, which we understand the services in a number of different ways. The government has persuaded them to put up, government claims that this will be set up in has the effect of making exempt all docu- a manner to be privatised at a later stage and ments of the NBN that can be described as yet has agreed, in a deal with the Australian being in relation to its commercial activities. Greens, to put so many provisions and hur- Quite clearly, basically everything that the dles in the way of that privatisation that there NBN does could be defined as being in rela- really is a question as to whether it will be tion to its commercial activities. The NBN is able to reasonably be privatised. meant to be a commercial entity, so you Let me go through some of the particular would expect all of its operations to in some concerns that the coalition has with this way, shape or form be commercial activities. package of legislation. Firstly, we are con- That would therefore mean that everything cerned that this bill will prevent appropriate could potentially be exempt under the defini- parliamentary and public scrutiny and over- tion from the Greens. sight of the NBN Co. This is the largest pub- We believe that this parliament, the public lic works project in Australia’s history. As I and the fourth estate should have proper said, it is a $50 billion project, with the oversight of this NBN. We will seek to en- overwhelming majority of that $50 billion sure that, just as schemes such as the Snowy being borrowed money. The government has Mountains scheme—which Senator Conroy already rejected calls for a decent cost- so often likes to cite in relation to prior infra- benefit analysis of this project either by In- structure projects—had decent parliamentary frastructure Australia or by the Productivity oversight, this one should as well. The Par- Commission. The government chose to re- liamentary Standing Committee on Public lease only 160 pages of the 400-page NBN Works should be entitled to have oversight of Co. business plan. The government asked the NBN and should not be prevented from MPs who were briefed to sign confidentiality having that oversight. We seek to ensure that agreements. The government has been in- freedom of information requests are reasona- credibly secretive about the details surround- bly dealt with in a manner that allows the ing this project and incredibly reluctant to public, the Fourth Estate and the parliament submit it to any type of decent scrutiny or reasonable access to ensure that the opera- oversight. tions and activities of NBN Co. are under- Now we have this bill which seeks to have taken in a proper way in accordance with the NBN Co. defined as a corporate body what the government claims will be the case. rather than as a public authority, thereby ex- We also have concerns about how this legis- empting it from FOI laws. This is despite the lation may hurt private retail service provid- fact that the NBN will be for the foreseeable ers by allowing the NBN Co. to extend its future—for the length of time that probably mandate. This is the issue of mission creep any of us are likely to be in this place—a 100 that I spoke of earlier. per cent government owned entity. Unfortu-

CHAMBER 1204 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

The government has repeatedly attempted bitstream service in providing services; oth- to assure the parliament, the public, the me- erwise, it has the capacity to start to undercut dia, telco carriers and the market generally the profitability of retail service providers. that the NBN would provide only a whole- Let me be quite blunt in relation to this sale layer 2 bitstream service to retail service space. We want to make sure that this NBN providers and that it would not deal directly and this structure do not repeat any of the with end customers. But the restrictions mistakes of the past. This parliament has placed on NBN Co. in these bills are unclear already dealt with the structural separation in some places and unduly expansive in oth- issues around Telstra. That legislation was ers. For instance, NBN Co. will be able to debated at the end of last year. If we go back supply network services directly to gas, wa- over that debate, both sides of parliament ter and electricity utilities, transport opera- should acknowledge that some of the issues tors and road authorities even though the around Telstra’s structure were mishandled provision of such services to these entities is in its transition from a government entity an existing and valuable business opportu- through its corporatisation to its ultimate nity for Telstra, Optus and other Australian privatisation. There were opportunities under carriers. The bill does not specify in clear governments of both persuasions to fix the language that NBN Co. must limit its prod- problem, but that was not done. We do not ucts to layer 2 service supply to retail service want to see those mistakes repeated in this providers for the purpose of providing ser- process. We will hold the government to vices to end users. The bill even makes it what it claims will be the case: actually hav- possible and easy for people beyond these ing a wholesale-only provider of the basic utilities, should they manage to meet these service and allowing the retail market to go relatively easy definitions of carriage service and do what it does best, which is to provide providers to directly purchase their services competitive, innovative services and to be in from NBN Co. as well. charge of the development of new, innova- We will challenge the government in the tive product. To do that, you need the NBN committee stage to live up to its promise that Co. providing a basic flat service to all of this is a wholesale-only network and to sup- them. port amendments that will ensure: that this We are also concerned that this bill will network can only provide services of a prevent competition in that space by prevent- wholesale nature to retail service providers ing private competitors entering the market. that can then be onsold to customers; that the The so-called level playing field, or cherry NBN Co. should not have direct retail rela- picker, provisions of these bills will mean tionships with customers; and, further, that that any company building a new network the NBN Co. should be limited, as the gov- offering services of 25 megabits per second ernment has made clear, to the provision of or higher will have to meet the same techni- layer 2 bitstream services. This is a very im- cal standards as NBN Co., make available portant technical point: to allow the NBN to the same basic layer 2 wholesale services as move up the product chain and engage in NBN Co. is meant to be making available that type of mission creep would be to allow and allow competitors non-discriminatory the NBN to get into some of the most profit- access to their networks at prices set by the able areas of the retail market. The NBN, if it ACCC. Mandating prices and reducing re- is to be a truly wholesale carrier, needs to turns will of course prevent private invest- operate purely and entirely at this layer 2 ment in new networks that could otherwise

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1205 lead to many Australians getting faster during the committee stage and seek to en- broadband much sooner than if they were to sure that the limitations placed on future wait for the NBN. It will stifle innovation in governments in dealing with this behemoth the telecommunication sector by mandating of an instrumentality are removed so future which technologies must be used. governments and future parliaments have the It is important to note in these concerns freedom and flexibility to do what needs to that it is not a case of saying that the NBN be done to fix this issue and to sell off parts should not be rolled out in some places but is of the NBN, if that is the best thing for the simply indicating that the coalition has con- Australian public. cerns about preventing competitor compa- In closing, let me make it clear that the nies from rolling out services in places. Can- coalition believe this is a flawed policy and berra is a case in point. The Senate commit- we have serious concerns about many as- tee inquiry heard very compelling evidence pects of these bills. I look forward to going from service providers in Canberra, who through those concerns in detail in the com- provide direct services already from the fibre mittee stage. We will continue to vigorously services that are rolled out, that they will be argue that there is a better way than $50 bil- threatened by this legislation. Their profit- lion taxpayer funded, debt funded investment ability will be threatened. They themselves in this sector to provide reasonable, fast, ef- will have to undertake major structural ficient, competitive broadband services to all changes to be able to continue to operate if Australians. Even though it is probably way this legislation passes. We do not think it is too late, we once again urge the government reasonable to stifle private operators who in to see common sense and to come onboard the past have provided decent services to the with a cheaper, more efficient and better way community and private operators who seek to do that. in the future to provide better competitive Senator CAMERON () services to the community. Those operators (10.22 am)—Once again we see the opposi- should be entitled and enabled to get on with tion in their negative carping mode in this doing what they do best, and that is provid- debate on the National Broadband Network ing good, efficient and competitive services. Companies Bill 2011 and the Telecommuni- We are also concerned, as I flagged ear- cations Legislation Amendment (National lier, that this bill will make it harder to sell Broadband Network Measures—Access Ar- off the NBN. Initially, of course, this was rangements) Bill 2011. They are not prepared going to be a 50 per cent private owned to accept the proposition that NBN Co. will company. That was the government’s first deliver massive change, massive improve- approach. When they realised that no private ments to productivity and massive benefits to operator was ever going to invest in it, it be- the Australian community. Again we see— came a 100 per cent government owned and I am surprised that Senator Birmingham company with the belief that it would be sold is engaging in this—the misinformation that off once it was finished. However, subse- is coming out about cost. As a threshold is- quent backroom deals with the Australian sue, Senator Birmingham raised the issue of Greens have seen significant barriers created cost and then he finished with a $50 billion for future privatisation. There is a real ques- figure that he plucked out of the air because tion as to whether the government even truly it sounds a bit scary. believe that it should become a private entity at any stage. We will pursue those concerns

CHAMBER 1206 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

The reality is that the cost of building the that mission can be as wide as possible in NBN without Telstra coming in as a partner delivering decent NBN access to the com- was $43 billion. That was confirmed by munity they would be quite happy that that McKinsey-KPMG in their implementation creeps out across the community in a very study. The government released that study in quick, efficient and effective way. May 2010. It also indicated that, with NBN In relation to the anti-cherry-picking pro- coming on board, the cost is $35.9 billion. posals—again, typically from the opposition This is a huge amount of money, but this is a in their support of their big business mates, huge project. It has huge potential and huge this time Telstra and Optus—they want them gains for the Australian economy. to be able to go in and carve out the best Greenhill Caliburn, who evaluated the parts of the NBN, which would make it ex- NBN corporate plan, found that the plan tremely expensive to have one wholesale provided the government with a reasonable price around the country. So it is typical: basis on which to make a commercial deci- when big business get into the ear of the op- sion about NBN Co. So this is not some position, they just concede and they run big flight of fancy by the government; this is business’s line, and that is what Senator about us saying that this is the approach that Birmingham has been doing this morning. I will deliver the benefits to the community in will come to the issue of volume discounting relation to broadband across this country. later. The issues of scrutiny and privatisation What Greenhill Caliburn said is that the are, again, issues that are at the margins of NBN Co.’s corporate plan has been com- delivering such a magnificent benefit to the pleted to high professional standards, provid- people of Australia. ing the level of detail and analytical frame- The government has established the NBN work that would be expected from a large to address not only an industry failure but a listed public entity evaluating an investment longstanding market failure in this country. opportunity of scale. It is an investment op- Senator Birmingham stands up here and portunity of scale that is providing opportu- says, ‘Well, we could do it some other way.’ nities for the whole country. Yet what do we I say: you had 11½ years to find another way get from the opposition—negative, carping to do this and you failed miserably, you criticism and nitpicking. They cannot bring failed completely and you failed terribly in the arguments to bear as to why this should providing any support for broadband across not go ahead so they resort to carping criti- this country. What did that failure do? It left cism. this country lagging against other advanced The two bills that we are dealing with, countries in the OECD and around the which are known in shorthand as the NBN world—lagging behind broadband speeds, Co. bill and the NBN access bill, are ex- lagging behind the capacity to provide in- tremely important to allow this project to go formation in the community and information ahead. We have heard the opposition and we across business, lagging on productivity and have heard the issues that they are raising. In efficiency. The coalition failed miserably my view those issues are carping, negative, across the whole economy. Not just on minor criticisms about whether there is a broadband but on productivity and effi- wholesale-only approach to the NBN—the ciency, the coalition were complete failures. argument that there would be mission creep. They were complete failures on providing I have to say to you: I bet lots of people want the jobs of the future—the jobs that are im- the mission of the NBN to succeed, and if portant to position our economy and provide

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1207 opportunities for future generations to en- tandem with the NBN Companies Bill and gage. What do we get when the Labor Party the Telecommunications Legislation Amend- and the government deal with this issue? We ment (Competition and Consumer Safe- get negative, carping criticism. There has guards) Bill. been failure from the opposition in the past On 10 February this year, the Senate re- on health, on education and on regional de- ferred the National Broadband Network velopment. The evidence to the committee Companies Bill 2010 and the Telecommuni- was that this will revolutionise health and cations Legislation Amendment (National education services across the country and Broadband Network Measures—Access Ar- provide fantastic opportunities for regional rangements) Bill 2010 to the Senate Envi- Australia. That is what the wholesale plat- ronment and Communications Legislation form that is the NBN will provide to this Committee, which I chair, for inquiry and country—opportunities for the future for report. Our committee report was tabled last business and opportunities for a better soci- Thursday, 17 March. The committee adver- ety. tised its inquiry and invited submissions We are ensuring that there will be effec- from key industry players. We held public tive retail competition, something that the hearings in Canberra and in Sydney. We state coalition in 11½ years again failed to deliver. in our report that submitters and witnesses NBN Co. will operate on a wholesale-only, were unanimous about the importance of the open and equivalent access basis. We under- passage of the bills. There was not the nega- stand the need for competition. We under- tive, carping criticism that we get from the stand that that competition has to be at the coalition but enthusiasm, support and appre- retail level. That is what should be done. Be- ciation for the fact that this government has cause the coalition failed over 11½ years to done something that the coalition could not deal with the wholesale aspect of the provi- do in 11½ years in government: provide ac- sion of broadband to the community, we cess to broadband right across the country. have dealt with that. This bill provides the The submitters and witnesses stressed the basis for delivering the NBN across the importance of broadband for business, country. health, education and research purposes, es- The National Broadband Network Com- pecially in the rural and regional areas. We panies Bill 2011 limits the NBN Co. to a heard from education and small business focus on wholesale-only telecommunications groups. The Group of 8, a coalition of lead- activities. It is clear in the bill. It sets out the ing Australian universities, described many Commonwealth ownership arrangements and possibilities for the NBN. They said: provides for the eventual sale of the Com- High-speed broadband network provides the ca- monwealth’s stake in the NBN once the pacity for distant doctors or patients—or mid- NBN rollout is complete. It provides a thor- wives for that matter—to have real-time interac- ough process, including parliamentary scru- tions with specialist colleagues in an urban setting tiny, to deal with these issues. The bill works if they need it. … Broadband connectivity allows in tandem with the NBN access bill. The clinicians, wherever they are, to engage in things NBN access bill establishes a new access like grand rounds—when patients of interest are discussed in teaching hospitals, people who are equivalency and transparency obligation for not physically in that building can connect in real NBN Co. and it provides a level regulatory time and participate in the questions and answers playing field for all operators providing su- … perfast broadband services. The bill works in

CHAMBER 1208 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

There was no equivocation from the univer- And equality of access to broadband tech- sities or from the professors of medicine in nology is so important. It should not just be the universities. There was no carping criti- for those that can afford the high prices that cism from them. They want this. They know have predominated under the coalition. It that it is delivering. They know the opportu- should not be for those in big business who nities that it will provide them with. They are use broadband. It should be for everyone, desperate to get this. That is the difference because working-class kids in this country between the people who stand to benefit should have the same access as do the chil- from this and the coalition and their carping, dren of the privileged in this country. They negative approach. should have access to telecommunications Also, the inquiry heard from the Associa- and broadband networks that provide them tion of Catholic School Principals of New with the opportunity to use their skills, their South Wales. I quote from them: intelligence and their capacity in an equal way to kids who have parents who can afford E-learning is truly already a reality in our schools. We have moved from paper to e-books to person- to buy that process now. alised learning and now to e-publishing in a rela- Notwithstanding the broad support for the tively short time. Scalability is necessary to allow bills—and it was very broad support—there us to continue to grow, as I said, and to provide were a number of concerns raised by some of 21st century skills … the current telcos. Well, why wouldn’t they The NBN will provide that scalability. The raise their concerns? They are vested inter- NBN will provide an opportunity for our ests that the coalition continue to pander to. I schools to grow. The NBN will provide an have to say that, when I heard Telstra waxing opportunity for our students to have access to lyrical about the problems of a vertically the best tutors anywhere in this country—the integrated NBN, I thought to myself, ‘The best tutors anywhere in the world—on spe- hypocrisy of Telstra talking about vertical cific projects. The education professionals integration and lack of competition! The hy- understand the importance of the NBN, even pocrisy!’ Telstra are the organisation that the if the coalition do not. coalition built, with the Mexican gang up The Council of Small Business Organisa- there running Telstra and telling the coalition tions of Australia talked about the greater what they would accept and what they would bulk of small businesses wanting access to not accept—standing over the coalition when affordable high-speed broadband—for com- they were in government and telling them petitive reasons as much as anything else. that they were not going to allow broadband They know the benefits that this will pro- access across the country. The coalition were vide. They know that it is affordable. They stood over and done over by Telstra. We know it is needed. They know it is necessary were not stood over, we were not done over, for the future of our economy and the future and we have stood up for the Australian pub- for our kids. lic. We will not pander to the vested interests In their evidence, the ACTU said: of Telstra, Optus or anyone else in relation to this process. An NBN program which provides for universal access and a universal wholesale price, we say, There are a number of issues detailed in would be the best method to ensure that Austra- the report, but they generally cover the lians have equality of access to broadband tech- wholesale obligations of NBN, including the nology. wholesale supply exemptions for utilities. This is because NBN Co. is allowed to sell

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1209 access to utilities for services that enable the NBN Co. are extremely clear that the com- utilities to monitor their own networks. As pany will offer open and equivalent access to the minister said in the debate in the other wholesale services at the lowest levels in the place, the exemption is needed because, un- network stack necessary to promote efficient der the existing legislation, utilities may do and effective retail competition via layer 2 things that would otherwise make them car- bitstream services. riers or carriage service providers without Concern was also raised by those opposite being classified as carriers or carriage ser- about the conditions for selling NBN Co. vice providers. The bill simply allows NBN Under this legislation, the minister must de- Co. to treat them as carriers or carriage ser- clare that the NBN is built and fully opera- vice providers. tional. There has to be a report from the Pro- The exemption will also support the ductivity Commission. There has to be a par- growth of smart infrastructure management, liamentary joint committee that examines the including smart management of electricity report, and the finance minister must deter- supply, and the exemption will put pressure mine that conditions are suitable for sale. I on telcos to give utilities the services they have to say that the conditions agreed to by need—the services that they did not get un- the Senate provide a reasonable balance be- der the coalition, the services that were so- tween flexibility for government and the called spear carriers for competition. The NBN Co. and regulation in the public inter- coalition could never provide the competi- est. tion. They could never provide the services Another issue raised in submissions was to the utilities. The utilities have had an ex- concern that, under the proposed amend- emption for years because, under the coali- ments, NBN Co. could offer volume dis- tion, they were incapable of providing the counts that would favour the largest service dynamism in the telecommunications sector providers; however, a volume discount can- that would provide those services to the utili- not be offered by NBN Co. unless it is in ties. accordance with the arrangements set out in The committee supported the utilities ex- a special access undertaking which had been emption, noting that the utilities will still approved by the ACCC. have the choice to purchase network man- Part 3 of the bill relates to level-playing- agement services from retail service provid- field arrangements. The level-playing-field ers or through other intermediaries. The chal- arrangements are intended to ensure that lenge is out there now for Telstra and Optus NBN Co. will remain commercially viable to meet the commercial needs of the utilities. while meeting its stated objective of provid- If they can meet the commercial needs of the ing fixed-line fibre access to 93 per cent of utilities then the argument that the utilities Australian homes. Peak groups such as the should have access will disappear because it Telecommunications Users Group and the will be there based on market opportunities. Internet Society of Australia believe that the There were concerns raised about the arrangements would be in the best interests definition of services that the NBN Co. can of the end users and the NBN as a whole. provide. We took the view that it is poten- I conclude by saying that this legislation is tially problematic to define this sort of highly important. This legislation is about dragging technical matter in primary legislation. Nev- us into the 21st century. This legislation is ertheless, the government’s instructions to about dealing with the incapacity of the pre-

CHAMBER 1210 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 vious government to deliver national broad- to add anything to or change anything from band services across this country. the sort of service that we can get direct from Senator FISHER (South Australia) NBN Co.’ That is very well and good, but (10.43 am)—Loath as I am to start by stating wouldn’t everyone like to have that sort of a negative, I feel compelled to do so. We in access without the necessity to have a retail the coalition are not broadband deniers but service provider in the middle? we are NBN sceptics. There is a big differ- Little debate has been had about the fact ence. We in the coalition want all Australians that this exemption would not only apply to to have access to faster, cheaper and reliable government owned utilities; it would also broadband but we have no faith at all in the allow privatised utilities to access broadband government’s ability to achieve that through directly from NBN Co. The arguments from the NBN. So, yes—we are NBN sceptics and the utilities, whilst very well intended on properly so. behalf of their members, are pretty much not Our concerns about the National Broad- more than: ‘We are special, we are different, band Network Companies Bill 2011 and the we provide services upon which you rely Telecommunications Legislation Amendment very much and you would not like to do (National Broadband Network Measures— without us at any point in time.’ I am afraid Access Arrangements) Bill 2011 revolve the arguments are not much more sophisti- around the way in which they undercut the cated than that. government’s repeated reassurances about The consequences of granting the exemp- the NBN: firstly, that the NBN will be sub- tion would be that NBN Co. would be al- ject to examination, scrutiny and transpar- lowed to stand in the shoes of a would-be ency; and secondly, that NBN Co. will de- retail service provider. The Energy Networks liver wholesale-only services and will not Association, a peak body representing utili- compete in the retail market. There are sev- ties, particularly in gas and electricity, has eral aspects of these bills that directly un- spoken of its doubt that retail service provid- dermine each of those repeated reassurances ers would be able to provide the sort of stuff given by this government. I will focus on a that the energy networks need for their own couple of those aspects this morning. internal broadband consumption. However, The exemption—which others have men- that was hotly contested at the inquiry to tioned—that it is proposed be given to utili- which Senator Cameron referred, by wit- ties would allow utilities like gas and elec- nesses who gave evidence to the inquiry that tricity service providers to access services they would, effectively, love to bid for that directly from NBN Co. That exemption ef- space and they want to be given the opportu- fectively would allow NBN Co. to step into nity to demonstrate that they can provide the what could otherwise be the shoes of retail- services that the utilities would value. But ers who would then provide those services the trouble with the bill and the exemptions on to utilities. In seeking this exemption, the as written is that they would deprive retail utilities are seeking an exemption for the use service providers of that opportunity. So you of broadband for their own internal purposes. have NBN stepping into the shoes of what To justify the exemption, they use arguments would otherwise be retailers, directly under- such as: ‘We provide essential services, we mining the government’s repeated reassur- are different and we do not need anyone ances that NBN will be wholesale only and else—for example, retail service providers— will not compete in the retail sector.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1211

Interestingly enough, the Energy Net- riage service providers. Witnesses to our works Association, which Senator Cameron Senate inquiry properly pointed out that would no doubt have included in his conga there is nothing in the terms and conditions line of supporters for NBN, in stating in its attached to being a carriage service provider submission its opposition to coalition that compels a body so licensed to on-sell amendments to get rid of the exemption, those services to the public. Putting it an- listed the following as one of its three rea- other way, that means that there is nothing sons for supporting the exemption: that forces a licensed carriage service pro- The federal opposition’s proposed amendments— vider to become a retailer, if you like, and to to get rid of the exemption— on-sell. That leaves open the door for a body to obtain a licence as a carriage service pro- may have the effect of deterring energy network vider and access services from NBN Co. di- businesses from using the National Broadband Network. rectly for its own internal use. Once again, if that were to eventuate it would mean that How does that define Energy Networks As- NBN Co. would be standing in the stead of sociation as one of a conga line of supporters other retail service providers. NBN Co. for NBN? What they are effectively saying would be going way beyond being wholesale is, ‘If you do not provide the NBN to us on only and would be competing in the retail the terms and conditions we want, we do not market, a second very clear breach of the want it at all.’ Later in their submission they government’s repeated reassurances that said: NBN will be wholesale only and will not While each energy network business will make its compete with the retail market. own decisions regarding the most cost-effective and technically feasible communications technol- As to transparency, the provisions in the ogy for their requirements and circumstances, the bill that we are supposed to believe will al- NBN is an important candidate technology being low eventually privatisation of the NBN Co. considered by many energy businesses. and the NBN are so onerous as to say loudly So, even if the exemption is granted, these and clearly—in capital letters written in guys are not even sure that they will want to lemon juice between the lines of the legisla- use it. At the very best, they are saying: ‘Yes, tion; you just have to iron it and it will come we might use it if you give it to us on the out in brown—that the NBN will never be terms and conditions that we want. But if sold. The NBN cannot be privatised unless you don’t give it to us on the terms and con- and until the relevant minister, whomever ditions that we want—in other words, if you that may be, declares that the NBN is com- don’t grant the exemption we want—then we plete—how long is a piece of string; how probably won’t use the NBN at all.’ How is long is this fibre going to be?—and fully that support for a $43 billion taxpayer in- operational. It requires the minister of the vestment? It sounds pretty much like, ‘We’ll day to declare that the NBN is complete and tolerate it if we have to,’ at best. fully operational. It also requires the finance minister to declare that the market conditions Another aspect of these bills which un- are suitable. Like I said, it is written in lemon dermines the government’s repeated reassur- juice. Just iron it and you will find that the ances that the NBN will be transparent and NBN under this government is destined to that the NBN will be wholesale only and will never be sold. Why don’t they just fess up? not compete with the retail market is the pro- posal in these bills to give licences to car- This government has the hypocrisy to suggest that if the NBN ever is privatised

CHAMBER 1212 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 then it should properly be subject to a Pro- Committee Act, where the Governor-General ductivity Commission review—finally; at is satisfied that an authority of the Com- last. It will probably never be realised under monwealth is engaging in trading or other this government, because the NBN will not activities or is providing services in competi- be privatised. But, if it were to be, they are tion with other bodies. It goes on to say that saying that they might then, and only then, the Governor-General may make regulations allow a Productivity Commission review— declaring that the act does not apply to that finally, some scrutiny. What hypocrisy from authority. the government while it continues to evade Of course, that is what the Governor- pretty much any decent level of scrutiny. The General went on to do. Why did she go on to NBN Co. CEO, Mike Quigley, has protested. do it? The explanatory statement attached to He reckons that he has scrutiny enough, the message that went to the Governor- thanks very much. He told the Financial Re- General from the government when they view that he does not want every man and his wanted to go in a way that did not subject dog having a look at the internals of his op- their proposed exemption from the Public eration. It is not his operation; it is the opera- Works Committee to proper debate—for ex- tion of the Australian taxpayers and it de- ample, in the House of Representatives— serves to be subject to the sort of scrutiny claimed: ‘NBN Co. is trading and providing that every government owned enterprise is services in competition with privately owned subject to. telecommunications firms, including com- Hence also our amendments in respect of peting in the fixed-fibre broadband sector the freedom of information laws, to ensure throughout Australia as a wholesale-only that the pup that this Labor government has open access network provider.’ sold the Greens in terms of so-called free- Propped up by the provisions of this bill, dom of information reassurances is not real- you have a government owned monopoly ised, because that pup will turn into a dog proposed to benefit from anti-cherry-picking and it will not result in any sort of freedom provisions which would legislate out any of information access to NBN Co. As my prospective competition whatsoever to NBN colleague Senator Birmingham has said, Co. The anti-cherry-picking provisions what activity of NBN Co. will not be deemed would legislate away any possible competi- to be commercial in that environment? So tion from so-called privately owned tele- much for transparency. communications firms. How can this gov- Transparency could have been made pos- ernment stand up in front of the Australian sible earlier by subjecting this expenditure of people and seriously claim that NBN Co. is taxpayers’ money to scrutiny by the Public going to be providing services in competition Works Committee. This Labor government, with the private sector competing in fixed- instead of debating its proposed exemption fibre broadband as a wholesale-only open through the House of Representatives and access network provider? Come on. The achieving exemption that way—if the House Australian taxpayer is stumping up for NBN of Representatives so decided—ran to its and NBN Co., and NBN and NBN Co. are friend the Governor-General. The Governor given legislative fiat to ride roughshod over General is, as I understand it, able to provide any other competitor, dare they even think exemption to scrutiny from the Public Works about it. These two bills make a mockery of Committee on prescribed bases which in- the basis on which the government ran cap in clude, in a subsection of the Public Works hand to the Governor-General to seek—and

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1213 subsequently be granted—exemption from gime to facilitate open access to the NBN for scrutiny by the Public Works Committee. retail-level telecommunication service pro- That exemption ought be reconsidered and it viders. The two bills in debate today address ought be seen as the hypocrisy from this those particular areas. government that it indeed is. As we all know, or should know, the Na- In concluding my contribution to the de- tional Broadband Network is a fundamental bate, I note with regret and deep concern the nation-building reform. It will pave the way many aspects of these bills that undermine for Australia to move into the high-speed the government’s repeated reassurances that digital age. The Gillard Labor government is the NBN will be transparent, that it will be a aiming to ensure that 93 per cent of all Aus- wholesale-only service and will not compete tralian premises will have access to high- with the retail sector. These bills do nothing speed, fibre based internet services for the to reinforce any of those promises. In fact, benefit of businesses, communities and indi- they shred them. On that note I will continue viduals. The remaining seven per cent of to fight for the coalition’s right to be NBN Australians premises will benefit from in- sceptics. creased internet speeds by fixed wireless or Senator McEWEN (South Australia) satellite, depending on where they live. Once (10.59 am)—I rise today to contribute to this the rollout of the NBN is complete, Austra- debate about the National Broadband Net- lian internet speeds will soar up to 100 work Companies Bill 2011 and the Tele- megabits per second—some 50 times faster communications Legislation Amendment than most people experience today. It has (National Broadband Network Measures— been said many times in this chamber, and I Access Arrangements) Bill. Here we have am not shying away from saying it again, another package of bills designed to bring that the NBN and the high-speed internet about the establishment of Australia’s Na- technologies that it entails are the railways tional Broadband Network. I am always and highways of our time. The NBN project pleased to have the opportunity to talk about is the single largest nation-building infra- the National Broadband Network, the NBN, structure project in Australian history and the because it is such an exciting initiative and it technologies have the potential to transform offers so much potential both in public pol- every aspect of our lives including business, icy and in economic development for Austra- health, education and government services, lia. It has been a long time in the hatching and it will serve Australia for the future. and this is just one set of legislation to bring The NBN will also increase national pro- about fruition of the NBN. ductivity and help us to build a stronger, On 7 April 2009, the Labor government modern, resilient economy. The two bills that announced that it would establish a company are being discussed today are part of the cru- that would invest up to $36 billion over the cial steps to make sure that Australia no next eight years to build and operate a longer relies on its ageing copper telecom- wholesale-only, open-access National Broad- munications network. It has been proven that band Network. From the outset the govern- as a result of our dated network, our broad- ment said that it would introduce legislation band performance is severely falling behind that established governance, ownership and in comparison with international standards operating arrangements for the wholesale- and so the federal government wants to pre- only NBN company and for the access re- pare Australia for the future. For that reason, we need to ensure that all of the bills associ-

CHAMBER 1214 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 ated with the NBN that are proposed by the inquiry, into the two bills that we are debat- government are passed through the Senate. ing today, was tabled out of session last Individually, each of the bills in discus- week. The bills were referred to the envi- sion today has significant purposes that will ronment and communications legislation aid the rollout of the NBN. The National committee early in February. It has been an Broadband Network Companies Bill 2011 important of the process of rolling out the contains provisions to ensure that NBN Co. NBN that all of the legislation associated operates on a wholesale-only basis. It estab- with it has been subject to scrutiny by the lishes a regulatory framework for ownership, Senate committee. After advertising for governance and operation of NBN Co. along submissions, 24 were received, and subse- with its subsidiary corporations. Addition- quently the committee held public hearings ally, the bill provides that the Australian in Sydney and Canberra to hear from wit- government must retain full ownership of nesses. NBN Co. until its rollout is complete and it Submitters and witnesses to the inquiry establishes the framework for the eventual were unanimous about the importance of the sale of NBN Co. The National Broadband passage of these bills through the Senate. Network Companies Bill 2011 delivers a The importance of high-speed broadband for staged process to limit the activities of NBN business, health, education and research pur- corporations during the build phase and a poses, particularly in rural and regional ar- staged process which will create transpar- eas, was stressed in the majority of submis- ency as NBN corporations move towards sions and the committee was able to take private ownership. Those processes involve evidence from witnesses along those lines. considerable consultation and public en- For example, witnesses Professor Stanton quiry—for example, by the Productivity and Professor Griffiths from the Group of Commission and the parliamentary joint Eight, a coalition of leading Australian uni- committee on the ownership of NBN Co. versities, highlighted the importance of The companion of the companies bill is broadband for health services and health re- the Telecommunications Legislation search. I quote them: Amendment (National Broadband Network High-speed broadband network provides the Measures—Access Arrangements) Bill 2010. capacity for distant doctors or patients—or mid- While this bill contains three parts, the pri- wives for that matter—to have real-time interac- mary purpose of the second bill is to amend tions with specialist colleagues in an urban setting the Telecommunications Act 1997 and the if they need it ... Competition and Consumer Act 2010 to in- I can imagine how that will improve the de- troduce new access, transparency and non- livery of health services to Australians who discrimination obligations relating to the live in more remote communities. Professors supply of wholesale services by an NBN Stanton and Griffiths continued by saying: corporation. Broadband connectivity allows clinicians, As a member of the Senate Environment wherever they are, to engage in things like grand rounds—when patients of interest are discussed in and Communications Legislation Commit- teaching hospitals, people who are not physically tee, I have been part of many of the inquiries in that building can connect in real time and par- into the broadband legislation since the NBN ticipate in the questions and answers. project was initially launched by the Labor In regard to medical research, the professors government. The report from the most recent said that superfast broadband would speed

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1215 up trials and research immensely. Again I do that, but apparently there are some Aus- quote them: They said, in respect of medical tralians in the Senate chamber that do. An research: affordable, superfast broadband connection ... it can take years to get thousands of people in a would help all small businesses, particularly normal randomised control trial. We can do online those who rely heavily on the internet, to automated randomised control trials with people stay abreast of their markets. in their houses in a few months. Further submissions and witness state- That is an exciting opportunity in the area of ments to the inquiry continued to reiterate medical research that would otherwise be the importance of high-speed broadband unavailable to Australian medical research- across all sectors. In relation to the benefits ers—one that the federal opposition appears that the NBN will have on the education sec- to wish to deny to researchers and, indeed, tor, Ms Saab, from the Association of Catho- people throughout Australia who could par- lic School Principals in NSW, stated: ticipate not only in the research itself but in E-learning is truly already a reality in our schools. the benefits of that research. We have moved from paper to e-books to person- As I already mentioned, superfast broad- alised learning and now to e-publishing in a rela- band services are going to help a multitude tively short time. Scalability is necessary to allow of sectors. Mr Strong, from the Council of us to continue to grow, as I said, and to provide Small Business Organisations of Australia, 21st century skills ... noted the many opportunities which broad- Ms Saab continued: band brings to small businesses. I quote him: Our school cannot meet the needs of the 21st “There are 2.4 million small businesses— century learner with 20th century infrastructure. Hence, the broadband is so important to us. Stu- in Australia. dents are, as we know, the very greatest asset we They are diverse, but I think I can say with confi- have. The children of Australia, we believe, de- dence that the greater bulk of them want— serve an education that enables them to be global access to affordable and high-speed broad- citizens of the 21st century. The 21st century band— classroom is currently grinding to a 20th century halt without fast reliable access to the internet. for competitive reasons as much as anything. Ms Saab has encapsulated in those com- Mr Strong also advocated for those who run ments exactly what the National Broadband their businesses from regional areas and said Network will bring to our education sector. that broadband would change the way they work entirely. I quote Mr Strong again: Finally, in quoting witnesses at the inquiry conducted by the Senate Environment and “Women on farms ... I have seen a few of them Communications Legislation Committee, I use the internet quite well to sell products ... and I know one young man is manufacturing and sell- note that the ACTU in its appearance at one ing golf clubs online and doing quite a good job of the hearings stressed that the NBN would of it.” help bridge the gap in access to the internet. Would we want to deny the innovative small The ACTU said: business people out there in our community, … if you examine the current take-up rates of particularly those in regional and rural areas, access to broadband, it falls as the income of your who will be able to benefit from the better family falls. In other words, low-income families or people on ordinary incomes were much less access to high-speed broadband that the Na- likely to have a home broadband connection than tional Broadband Network could give them? people who are more well off. In our view, that is I do not think any Australians would want to

CHAMBER 1216 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 an unsustainable outcome and not an outcome the country. My Tasmanian colleagues would which promotes social utility. An NBN program be the first to tell you that the first services which provides for universal access and a univer- provided over the NBN were launched in sal wholesale price, we say, would be the best their home state in August last year. I am method to ensure that Australians have equality of pleased to say that, in my own state of South access to broadband technology. Australia, Willunga has been selected to be In those comments from the ACTU we can one of the first release sites for the NBN. The see that the NBN is a classic Labor govern- people of Willunga are very happy about ment initiative, because it is directed entirely being included as a first release site. Resi- at ensuring inclusion across the community dents of Willunga overwhelmingly embraced and ensuring that people who are not doing the rollout of the test network, with 84 per so well have access to the technologies that cent signing up for the optic fibre connec- will enable them to participate in the com- tion, after years of putting up with inade- munity and in all aspects of community life quate and ineffective internet speeds, which in the same way that those of us who are was all the previous Liberal government somewhat better off are able to do. It is a could provide them. We know that two more social initiative as much as it is an economic South Australian suburbs, Modbury and initiative, and it is one that the Senate should Prospect, will be included in the rollout of stand behind. the next 19 mainland sites. We look forward After looking at both the companies bill to seeing the benefits to those communities and the access bill in depth and listening to in South Australia. submitters and witnesses, the committee rec- There has been considerable legislation al- ommended that both bills be passed. The ready passed in regard to the rollout of the committee also recommended, however, that National Broadband Network, and one of the the passing of the bills be subject to an most significant achievements for the gov- amendment passed through the House of ernment so far in this regard which will en- Representatives regarding the application of sure that this delivers competition to the tele- the Freedom of Information Act to NBN Co. communications sector in Australia was the for the access bill. The federal Labor gov- passage of the Telecommunications Legisla- ernment wants to make certain that the NBN tion Amendment (Competition and Con- will be for the benefit of all Australians. In sumer Safeguards) Bill in 2010. That was a fact, when an exposure draft of the compa- very significant day in Australia’s telecom- nies bill was released for public comment in munications history because, of course, pass- February 2010, some concerns were raised ing that part of the legislation was integral to about certain aspects of the bill. In response separation of the wholesale and retail arms of to those concerns, the government has made Telstra and paved the way for the overall significant changes to the bill from the initial integration of the NBN. It was a step in the draft—for instance, by strengthening the government’s plan to deliver the NBN which status of NBN Co. as a wholesale-only busi- we promised in the 2007 federal election. ness. The government is taking great pains to Our promise then was to partner with the make sure the community understands what private sector to deliver a national broadband is being included in these bills and has an network and in particular to ensure competi- opportunity to comment on them. tion in the sector through an open access The foundations and rollout of the NBN network that provided equivalence of access have already begun in various places across charges and scope for access seekers to dif-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1217 ferentiate their product offerings. As I said Joint Committee on the National Broadband before, these two bills today are part of mak- Network. We welcome scrutiny and we will ing that promise to the Australian people a participate with the Australian community to reality. ensure that the best possible telecommunica- I am very proud to be a supporter of the tions infrastructure for the future is rolled out National Broadband Network. As I said be- by the government. fore, it is a real point of difference between Senator LUDLAM (Western Australia) the Labor government and the coalition op- (11.18 am)—I am pleased to rise and speak position in having a vision for the future of on the National Broadband Network Compa- Australia, ensuring all Australians have equal nies Bill 2010 and related bill this morning. access to this incredibly important initiative It is nice to be speaking about something and ensuring that we take advantage of the positive. I cannot unconditionally declare opportunities that modern telecommunica- Australian Greens support for these bills, tions will provide to a very big country like because this is very much a work in progress. Australia in the delivery of education ser- I understand there are a certain number of vices, health services, economic develop- government amendments that have not yet ment and competition between small busi- been circulated, which I think are designed nesses. to address some of the concerns that the It is disappointing that this week, another committee had—but, because we have not week in the federal parliament, has started yet seen those amendments, it is very diffi- with the coalition again carping, whingeing cult to pass judgment on them. So I am going and nay-saying about important public policy to keep my comments fairly general. initiatives being rolled out by the Labor gov- This debate has been several years in the ernment. But that is what we have come to pipeline. What we are hoping is that this de- expect from the coalition, because they have bate will close the long and drawn-out pre- no comprehensive plan at all for dealing with liminary phase of the rollout of the National Australia’s future telecommunications needs. Broadband Network. If the parliament ends Every time we have a piece of legislation to up supporting these bills, I think it is safe to do with the National Broadband Network we say we will be in new territory. As the con- get coalition senators on the other side of the struction schedule ramps up, and the network Senate chamber trying to knock it, trying to begins to light up around the country, I am set us back, trying to keep all Australians strongly hoping that two things will happen. back in the 20th century and trying to again Firstly, the new joint committee will be in- fluff up the carrier pigeons that they keep vestigating how well the predictions in the over there because they think that that is the NBN business plan actually map onto reality. way forward. Up until now we have been discussing a hy- Thank goodness there is a Labor govern- pothetical infrastructure project, a broadband ment. Thank goodness there is a Labor gov- network that existed only on paper. That of ernment that is absolutely committed to roll- course is beginning to change. Anyone who ing out the best possible telecommunications spent any time at all going through the busi- infrastructure for Australia. We welcome ness plan will have noted the extraordinary scrutiny of our legislation, whether by a Sen- scale-up and size of the workforce in the ate committee, by the Australian Competi- middle and the later years of the rollout im- tion and Consumer Commission or by the plicit in the concept of taking this project past 93 per cent of premises in the country.

CHAMBER 1218 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Passing these bills, if the parliament does concerns that the industry raised—and some so, will put us onto the on-ramp. And now, of quite significant concerns that the Greens course, it is incumbent on the parliament to raised. That means that most of what we are hold this government to its word, remember- debating today is, while not quite at the mar- ing the old adage that no battle plan survives gins, not quite the big-picture issues that contact with the enemy—or, in this case, have been dealt with. with reality. I think the joint committee will I would like to deal with some of the spe- be an important part of that accountability cific issues, some of which Senator Birming- process, and I congratulate Senator Xeno- ham raised in his speech. I know that there phon for putting that idea forward as part of were some coalition amendments circulated his agreement with the government late last to deal with some of these issues. As I said at year. I look forward to working with the new the outset, I believe there are government chair, Mr Oakeshott, and the rest of the amendments about to be circulated that will committee members as that work gets un- attempt to address some of the issues that I derway. am going to canvass here, and that Senator I think the second thing that will happen is Birmingham canvassed, but I will go through that the debate will shift from questions of them in general and we will have to wait competition policy and disputes over com- until the committee stage to see what the peting commercial self-interest to the uses to government has come up with. which Australians will actually put this net- We support in principle the provisions of work. That is the debate that I think most of the bill in relation to cherry picking, with us have really been looking forward to. With some reservations. The economics of the the rules of conduct settled, we get down to National Broadband Network are premised the really interesting question: what will the on the principle of cross-subsidisation, and Australian people, businesses, educators, that has underpinned public works in Austra- health professionals, environmental consult- lia from the beginning—for the last century ants, transport planners, energy utilities, art- or so, really—whether it be water, gas, roads, ists, musicians and community broadcasters electricity or postal services. And despite do with this technology? We have been attempts to roll back this principle, we are joined this morning for the debate by a cou- strongly supportive on grounds of equity. ple of classrooms full of students—good Basic services and utility services should be morning! This network is for these folk, and the same cost whether you live in Wentworth I am interested to know what young people or Wiluna. That is something that markets, will do with this technology, because it is and sometimes governments for that matter, something that we have simply not seen be- are not always capable of or interested in fore in Australia. I will return to some of providing. The government’s intention here, these questions at the end of my remarks, but we understand, is to use the easy markets to I mention them here with a sense of anticipa- subsidise the hard ones which private com- tion because I think we are going to see re- panies would not find profitable. We saw markable things. with the HFC rollout that we had two com- I would also like to note at this point that peting telecommunications carriers rolling the release of the exposure draft was a good parallel networks down parallel streets in the idea. I think that is generally good practice. lucrative parts of the country while ignoring We support that principle, and the govern- everywhere else. That is the kind of infra- ment was able to deal with a lot of issues and structure provision that we are not interested

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1219 in providing here. I have found a few hard- vider over another with volume discounts. line ideologues on the far Right who object These deals always seem to end up favouring to this interference in their ethereal free mar- the large over the small and end up consoli- ket, but most people seem to accept the idea dating market power in fewer and fewer of using cross-subsidisation to push metro hands. At this stage I have to give the benefit quality services well out into regional areas. of the doubt to the government and acknowl- This of course gives rise to some very hard edge that it was quite clearly not the gov- questions about how to treat market partici- ernment’s intention, but plenty of submitters pants who turn up in future to overbuild the raised it as an issue and we still do not have a NBN in lucrative inner-city areas without solution or anything on the table to show that taking on the public interest obligation of this will not occur. providing services in unprofitable markets in Whether it comes to a committee stage the bush. This is a network for everybody, amendment when we get around to debating and we agree with that. Our view on this this tomorrow, we are very keen that these matter is in alignment with the government: matters be reported in detail every so often. it should be prevented unless certain, very The Greens introduced into the CCS bill we strict conditions are met. debated late last year provisions for a rolling Telstra has proposed amendments repeal- review. We reserved the right to bring these ing the cherry-picking provisions entirely, in issues back to parliament if the provisions an irony that the Senate Environment and are not working as intended. If it turns out Communications Legislation Committee that either volume discounts or other dis- found quite entertaining—and it is perhaps counts are being applied unfairly and it is the strongest confirmation we have had yet disadvantaging certain players in the mar- that the provisions should stay just as they ket—generally speaking, from past experi- are. Reservations, though, are that players ence they will be advantaging large players like PIPE Networks and TransACT were not at the expense of smaller ones—then we trying to cherry pick, and I do not think the want those things reviewed. We reserve the government intended to catch them. These right to bring those provisions back to par- are people who were here already; they were liament if the market is dysfunctional and not trying to run businesses well before this new working as the government intended. network came along. The government is pro- I understand that the government certainly posing exemption criteria which will condi- does not intend for that to be the case. We are tion the way in which the cherry-picking looking for a monopoly provider at the provisions apply. This is one of those areas wholesale level and as much competition as where, at the moment, we do not have any we can manage at the retail level. That seems indication of what those are—we will have to be the model the government is pursuing. to wait and see whether that is going to But, if it does not work out that way, then we work. will not have too much time to fix it. That is The committee spent quite a bit of time going to need to be repaired. discussing the issue of discrimination, vol- The committee also spent a great deal of ume discounts and efficiencies. This is a very time considering the issue of scope creep, the serious issue because it threatens to under- expansion of the NBN Co. out of its whole- mine the whole point of the network or at sale box and into retail markets. The ques- least return us to the bad old days where a tions really are: who gets to buy layer 2 ser- monopolistic incumbent favoured one pro-

CHAMBER 1220 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 vices, do they have to be a reseller, can they bill allows. The question, of course, is: onsell it to others and can they use it for their should these entities be forced to deal with a own good? Although it is very evident that it retailer who will insert themselves into the is the government’s intention that layer 2 is value chain with their own mark-up if their the layer in the stack that NBN Co. will op- services are not required? That is a difficult erate at, it is actually spelt out nowhere in the one. The submitters who put their case rested legislation. It is an assumption. It is another their arguments on the greater public benefit issue that many submitters raised. of competition without recognising that actu- From my point of view the committee ally competition still applies; they are free to hearings were quite useful in clarifying this compete. Given the depth of feeling around issue. As you would expect, Telstra and Op- the issue, this is another one we would like tus ran strong arguments objecting to any included in the review. If there is ambiguity perceived scope creep. The thing is though about whether those matters will be reported that, if a utility needs the services from NBN on under the amendments we placed into the direct, it should be able to get them. It is for CCS bill last year then we want it explicitly the management of networks, whether they spelt out so that the parliament, the general be electricity networks or water networks. I public and the industry know whether the do not think anybody really believes that provisions are being abused. Water Corporation in WA and the electricity Senator Birmingham addressed freedom networks around the country plan to become of information in his remarks as well. This telco resellers. We are reasonably confident issue has had quite a lot of airtime since that allowing utilities to buy these services David Crowe in the Australian Financial for the provision of network management Review revealed that NBN Co. would not be services only maintains the integrity we are caught by the Freedom of Information Act seeking to keep. because of its status as a corporation rather Selling to anybody with a carrier licence than a government department. The govern- probably is a little more complicated, but if a ment argued that it did not intend to exclude retail service provider or Telstra or Optus the NBN from freedom of information legis- want to bid against the NBN Co. in the util- lation; it just happened to turn out that way. ity business to provide that service because So it negotiated with us to bring it into the they think they can value-add and provide domain of FOI. We sought to fix this issue in justification for their mark-up and for being the House of Representatives, and I thank the there, they should be absolutely entitled to government for the spirit in which it went do so. With the drafting of the bills at the into those negotiations and the House Inde- moment they can do that. They are not pre- pendents, who supported the Greens vented from competing. It is just that NBN amendments. Co., if the utilities want them there, will be What we sought to do was to have the in that space. NBN treated the same way as any other gov- The same goes for an entity with a carrier ernment business enterprise, whether that be licence intending to buy these services for CSIRO or Australia Post, which carries out their own internal use. If a RSP can bundle part of its operations on a commercial basis. up services, value-add and justify the mark- We tweaked the definition of ‘commercial up that they will place on them then it should practice’ as it is currently read in the FOI Act have the right to bid for that business, as the to remove reference to competition—since, as a state monopoly, the NBN will not actu-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1221 ally be in competition with anybody—but we that some harm will be caused if it is re- still wanted the normal operations of the act leased. to apply. I think applying some kind of threshold Senators might have noted—Senator Bir- test so that the assumption is not automati- mingham certainly did—the highly critical cally that disclosure will be refused is proba- comments of Mr Turnbull on the way bly the best way to strike the balance. The through the House debate. He pointed out coalition are proposing amendments that that the way in which modern interpretation provide complete exposure to NBN Co. to of the FOI Act treats commercial information freedom of information requests, and I think means that we were according NBN Co. an that that is straying too far in the other direc- unacceptably low threshold of disclosure. I tion. So we are going to try and find some- admit that that is something that disturbs me where in the middle that allows commer- as well. I had not been aware that it was cially sensitive material, or material which something that kept the conservative side of would be destructive if it were released, to be politics awake at night, but I will take the withheld. Those arguments can be made and point. Commercial information is accorded appealed. But let us do away with this blan- almost sacred status in the FOI Act and ket of secrecy that somehow accords sacred elsewhere in public policy. The assumption status to commercial information just be- is always against disclosure. No harm to cause a business is being run. anyone needs to be demonstrated. It is as I am hoping that that will satisfy the con- though commercial secrecy should automati- cerns of the opposition. I am hoping it meets cally trump the public interest. the objectives of the government to pre- I should say that our reading of the draft- sumably not have NBN Co. opened up to ing of the FOI Act is that it is not even com- repeated hostile or malicious FOI requests, mercial secrets that need to be withheld; it is or whatever the concern is. Hopefully we commercial information—anything relating will set something of a precedent in the way to the running of the business should auto- that the FOI Act operates as well. matically be precluded from public disclo- On the issue of privatisation, I will only sure. So it is an attitude curiously at odds revisit these clauses briefly to note that it is with theories of free markets which assume the very strong view of the Australian Greens that everyone in the market is given maxi- and many others that this network should mum access to information so that they can stay in public hands. So that I am not ac- go out and make their rational, self-interested cused of just playing to some vague left- decisions. That strand of thinking obviously wing stereotype, I would like to spell out never made it into the FOI Act. I recognise why we believe this. The simplest explana- that these concerns stray well into a different tion is one of purpose of the NBN Co. itself. portfolio and are not strictly a concern of the Senator Ian Macdonald—You want to communications minister, who just wants to go back to the Telecom days. get the bill through. But I think we will need to open this issue up again in the committee Senator LUDLAM—Senator Macdonald, stage when we get to it tomorrow, to have just listen and maybe you will learn some- the FOI Act itself amended to make sure that, thing. as far as NBN Co. is concerned, the pre- The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT sumption is that commercial information will (Senator Hutchins)—Order! Go through the be released unless it can be demonstrated chair, Senator.

CHAMBER 1222 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Senator LUDLAM—I do apologise, Mr that would automatically sell our interest Acting Deputy President. Through you: down. That has gone. We wanted the Produc- Senator Macdonald might learn something. tivity Commission to conduct a public inter- The simplest explanation is one of purpose est test and to feed their work into a joint of the NBN. The primary overriding purpose parliamentary committee for report on the of the National Broadband Network being costs and benefits of the sale. Imagine as- publicly owned is to serve as an open-access, sessing whether it is in the public interest to wholesale telecommunications provider to sell down our stake in the NBN Co. We think the entire Australian population. When it that is worth doing. The third thing that we screws something up, the taxpayers have the proposed was that any sale should be submit- right, through us, to call the company’s man- ted to a vote in this parliament so that the agement before budget estimates committees Australian people through their representa- and to amend its parent acts, including the tives, no matter how one-sided the numbers ones that we are debating today, to bring it might appear on the day, can at least have back into line. That is a degree of democratic their voices heard. That was all that we could control over the NBN Co. on behalf of not realistically do, and I still find it amazing just the rest of the industry and its potential that some commentators and coalition MPs competitors but all Australians, and that is panned the idea of even doing a public inter- something that we should not give up lightly. est test to assess whether the sale was a good As soon as you privatise it by law, its pri- idea or not. We think that is sensible. mary purpose becomes to maximise its re- To close, I think a couple of points are in turn to shareholders. It will do this by doing order. The fact is that the network itself is a what Telstra did—leveraging the benefits of physical piece of infrastructure: it is glass its incumbency into other markets. It will and steel, it is powered by coal and it is explore scope creep. It will push the bounda- transmitted through holes in the ground. We ries. And that is why you did not hear a mar- might imagine that cyberspace is some kind ket outcry when the Greens got these provi- of ethereal realm or some frictionless virtual sions into this bill last year—in fact, quite world that kind of frees us from the physical the reverse. Coalition senators in particular bonds of gravity and makes the whole place might be interested to note the number of sustainable. But let us remember that this market players who have supported the pro- technology is embedded in quite prosaic fos- tections against automatic privatisation be- sil-fired technology. We need to see the same cause it protects their interests, because they kind of ambition, vision and indeed risk- do not want to be dealing with another Tel- taking that we are seeing in telecommunica- stra situation. Telstra should never have been tions policy applied to the energy and trans- privatised, and what we are doing here partly port sectors. When that happens, we will fixes that mess. know that we have turned the ship and that The provisions that we put in, recognising we are truly on the way to a post-carbon that we cannot bind a future parliament to do economy. Instant telecommunications to any- one thing or another, were to remove the ex- where in the world can be a big part of that pectation of privatisation. It is not automatic vision, but only if we front up to the fossil anymore. That process will be initiated as a underpinnings of the internet and do not pre- decision of the government of the day. Pre- tend that it is somehow divorced from the viously in the exposure draft we had an auto- rest of the world. matic privatisation process that rolled out

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1223

Probably the less I say about coalition op- things to our democracy. Let us remember position to this project the better. I think it is one thing that it will start to do, which is blur part of the quite destructive obstructionism the boundaries of the nation state, because that has characterised the Abbott era. Oppo- the whole planet is coming online. Australia sition spokesperson Malcolm Turnbull has is an extremely wealthy nation and we have brought a sharp and quite technologically our digital divide here. There is a planetary literate critique to the project and he has cer- digital divide that is even more profound. tainly made the debate much more interest- But the number of internet users worldwide ing. But pretending that wireless can com- doubled between 2005 and 2010, and there pete with fixed fibre and offering nothing up are now nearly two billion people online. by way of an alternate policy except a bucket That is tremendously exciting. Of those, 400 of money to hand out to commercial provid- million speak in Chinese. This connects us to ers and hope that they serve up decent ser- the planet in ways which I do not think we vice in the bush I think is a welcome confir- are quite prepared for. mation that the Greens and the House Inde- Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- pendents did the right thing in backing Julia sland) (11.38 am)—In this debate, and it is a Gillard over Tony Abbott last year. debate, there is one aspect of the contribution Finally, to pick up some of the threads that by Labor Party members with which I agree, I introduced at the outset, in wondering what and that was when Senator McEwen said that Australians would do with a national broad- this legislation was typical Labor govern- band network I want to open up some larger ment legislation. I agree with her entirely. It questions. There is an undercurrent out there is dysfunctional, it is uncosted, it is not that is wondering, justifiably, why we would planned and it is ad hoc. We hear from Sena- want to blow tens of billions of dollars on tor Ludlam, the other part of the Labor- faster video streaming. I have seen it de- Greens coalition that runs this country at the clared that the killer application for the NBN present time, that the National Broadband will be nothing more than IPTV, video Network Companies Bill 2011 that we are all streamed, faster, on demand from anywhere here debating is not actually the bill we are at any time, and that that is the bandwidth going to vote on. Senator Ludlam knows, demand that justifies bringing glass fibre to and I am glad that he let the cat out of the your door. I strongly disagree. In fact, if I bag, that the bill is being amended as we thought that was the case I probably would speak. have advised my party room to vote against So what are we supposed to be debating this package and everything that has come here when the bill has provisions that none before. That world view that the internet is of us, not even Senator Ludlam, have even just about faster and more diverse television seen? That is typical Labor Party legisla- recalls the very early days of television in tion—I could not agree more with Senator which presenters sat awkwardly in front of McEwen. When it is a bill dealing with a the camera and read radio scripts because commercial enterprise introduced by a minis- that was the medium they knew and the au- ter who has had completely nil experience in dience was familiar with. I think this is an- commercial activities, you can only shake other one of those moments. The internet is your head and say, yep, it is a typical Labor not like more channels of television, because enterprise. Senator Conroy is a lovely fel- it is fundamentally not a broadcast technol- low—a truck driver, I think he was. Cer- ogy. Potentially it can actually do profound tainly he worked with the Transport Workers

CHAMBER 1224 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Union. I suspect Senator Sterle would proba- 2007 election, this network would be up and bly disagree that he was ever a truck driver. running now at a cost of $5 billion, which But his experience in dealing with business would have meant that the students and the is obviously very limited. The whole course mums and dads could afford to pay for it. of this bill typifies that. We do not know what the mums and dads Senator McEwen also said that this dis- of these students watching this debate are charged a Labor Party promise before the going to have to pay for this NBN, because it 2007 election. Hang on, Senator McEwen: if is $55 billion—but remember the Labor you go back and have a look at exactly what Party promised $4.7 billion. That has blown the Labor Party promise was before the 2007 out by some $50 billion. What is worse, the election, it was to deliver a fast broadband Labor Party promised they would get a service for a cost of $4.7 billion. That was commercial return on that $55 billion, and the commitment—$4.7 billion. What are we they would pay back all the money that they up to now? It is $55 billion, by best esti- would have to borrow to get it. It just does mates. Senator Cameron was talking about not make business sense. That is why the some lesser figure, but they conveniently Labor Party has refused to get a cost-benefit forget that, to get this up and running, in ad- analysis done. If it is so good, why oh why dition to the dodgy figures being promoted wouldn’t Senator Conroy get a cost-benefit as the cost of the NBN they are going to pay analysis done? It would prove to the world Telstra anything from $11 billion up to, as I what he has been saying. He says yes it is read in a report the other day, some $16 bil- good and yes it is affordable. The best way lion. I notice that in the weekend press Tel- of demonstrating that is to get an independ- stra are now not even saying they are going ent cost-benefit analysis done. He has con- to be part of the deal. Remember, this was all tinually refused to do that, and that in itself to be done by 1 July. I see Telstra are not demonstrates that this will not be cost effec- even having their meeting now until perhaps, tive. at the earliest, September. So we are going to Senator Cameron and Senator McEwen fiddle around not knowing exactly what this both raised the old class warfare arguments is going to cost the Australian people. that the Labor Party is so good at: ‘We are Senator Ludlam referred to the children in looking after the poor people. We are giving the gallery and said that they will benefit this fast broadband network. It’s not just the substantially from a fast broadband network. rich companies that will be able to have the We all agree that everybody in Australia fast broadband.’ That is all part of the Labor wants a fast broadband network, but we want Party’s socialist class warfare mantra— a network that people can afford. Someone which, I might add, nobody else in Australia has to pay the $55 billion. Before our Senate follows these days, apart from the Greens. inquiry into this, people came to us starry How can you get affordable broadband to all eyed, all keen for the NBN, and when you Australians when you have a $55 billion asked them whether they knew how much it price tag on it, one which they guarantee was going to cost and who was going to pay they will make a commercial return on? Of for it they looked a bit crestfallen and said, course, promises by the Labor Party are ‘Well, no, we just want it; we know it is go- completely irrelevant these days. We all re- ing to be good.’ Of course it is going to be member how the Prime Minister, two days good—any fast broadband network would be before the last election, hand on heart, hand good. In fact, if the coalition had won the on the Bible—I don’t think she uses a Bible,

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1225 so whatever she believes in—said, ‘There tralian taxpayer. Every mum and dad in Aus- will be no carbon tax under a government I tralia has an interest in how this money is lead.’ What do we have now? A carbon tax. being spent. We are entitled to know how it So how can any promise of the Labor Party is being spent by this group that wants to be be accepted? faceless, that wants to hide behind the veil of Senator McEwen spoke about Tasmania. commercial-in-confidence. What can be The Tasmanians are going to start to find out commercial-in-confidence when you are what the cost of the NBN is. Sure, it has running a monopoly? You do not have any- been operating for about a year now. But one to compete with. You are there on your there has been no charge for the NBN. It has own. It does not matter what people know been given to them for free in Tasmania. about your business; they cannot take advan- Even then, the number of people signing up tage of it because you are a monopoly—you to the NBN has been disappointing from the are the only one in the business. That is what government’s point of view. we are ending up with under this typical so- cialist Labor Party legislation. It is a monop- The National Broadband Network Com- oly business which is going to run telecom- panies Bill has been very clearly explained munications in Australia. by both Senator Birmingham and Senator Fisher. The clear fallacies in the bill, the in- The Senate Environment and Communica- adequacies in the bill, have been pointed out. tions Legislation Committee examined this The volume discounts are causing great con- bill. The government wants this enterprise to cern, as is the suggestion that enterprises like be a monopoly. Of course, the Greens have ACTEW will be prejudiced in their current never made any secret about the fact they economic and business case by this bill, want the government to always own it, be- which simply has not been thought through. cause they believe in socialism, in govern- As Senator Ludlam said, trying to defend his ment ownership of enterprises. The Labor mates in the Labor Party, ‘I am sure they did Party used to, but they got out of that 20 or not intend it.’ But that is just typical of the 25 years ago. But they are being brought Labor Party. All of these things are done. back into it now, because it is now the Nobody looks through them, nobody thinks Greens, led by Senator Brown, who run this about them, and we find a bill that is being government. They want governments to own amended as we speak, as we are debating it. commercial enterprises, but they will not We do not know what it is going to be. The have any competition. So who cares about Labor Party and the Greens might know commercial secrets? what it will be, although Senator Ludlam We said to a number of witnesses: ‘When confessed that not even he knew. So what are you deal with a monopoly, don’t you run the we doing here debating something that is still risk of going back to the old PMG/Telecom being written? days when Australian telecommunications Senator Ludlam talked, as did the Labor were light-years behind the rest of the world? Party contributors, about freedom of infor- That was because a government monopoly mation, about making this public and open ran our telephone system.’ I can remember and accountable. After all, this is not some when, in the old days, you would turn a han- private company’s money. This is not some dle on the telephone and about five different investor’s investment in a commercial enter- people on the party line could pick up the prise. This is the money of every single Aus- phone. That was the state of telecommunica- tions when the government last had a mo-

CHAMBER 1226 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 nopoly on telecommunications in this coun- You have only got to look around. When try. we all leave this place and go out into the We have progressed because there has real world, when parliament is not sitting, we been competition. The competition out there talk to young people who wander around is fierce and that is why we are getting all of with their laptops. We even do it ourselves. these new technologies. Because the Labor Sorry; where is the NBN fixed-line connec- Party is being urged by the Greens—and I tion to them? Everyone, except parliamen- know a lot of Labor Party people do not tarians these days, seems to have these iPad agree with us; I do sympathise with them, things which are even lighter and smaller but the Greens are calling the tune—we will than laptops. I cannot see the NBN being have this monopoly that will not be subject connected to them either. to any competition. What will be their incen- Clearly, there are new technologies com- tive to get with the latest technology? There ing in all the time. I have got no idea what will be absolutely none. They will just they are going to be, but people out there charge what they like and make whatever understand that day by day, almost hour by profits or losses they like. They will not have hour, there are new technologies coming. to compete with anyone at all. Why would People are flocking to them. They do not they invest in new technology? Why would include fixed-line NBN work. They include they be bothered? Of course they will not be all of the latest things that are happening in bothered, and the chances of it ever being competition in an industry that is very com- privatised are slipping by the day. As my petitive. So what is happening in Australia? colleagues on this side have pointed out, it We are going to be locked into $55 billion of can only be privatised if that great business investment that the taxpayers will have to brain Senator Conroy or whoever follows pay for—not the Labor Party, not the NBN him in this field—it will be someone with executives, not all those people who think it equally good private business expertise I am is a good idea but don’t want to pay for it— sure, and I say that cynically—certifies that while the industry will have moved on. it is fully operational and complete. Of Technology will walk around Australia. We course that will never happen. It will never will have a government monopoly running be complete, so it will never be privatised. the show, as we did back in the old Telecom The Minister for Finance and Deregulation— days, which does not have to make a profit, currently Senator Wong, with a great com- does not have to compete and does not have mercial background—will have to certify to get up with the latest, and Australia will be that market conditions are suitable. taken back again. There are a lot of good people in the La- There were a lot of other things that came bor Party. I love them all. But you cannot say out of the Senate committee inquiry into this that they are great businessmen. Their back- bill that I would like to debate. Unfortu- ground in coming here is either the union nately, time is going to beat us again in this movement or working for another politician. debate. Perhaps we will have some opportu- Yet these are the people who are going to tell nity in the committee stage of the debate. I us when market conditions are suitable— am not sure if Senator Xenophon, who I see now come on! This is typical Labor Party has just entered the chamber, is aware of this. socialist legislation. Senator Xenophon, save your time. Do not bother debating this bill, because we learnt five minutes ago from the Greens section of

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1227 the government that there is new legislation of. They have no idea of what the legislation being written as we speak. What we are sup- is. It will be another rush job done on the posed to be debating I am not quite sure run, and that will mean that we will end up about. Senator Ludlam himself even said, ‘I with all the same sorts of problems that we can’t really say too much because the legisla- have seen in the past with this NBN fiasco tion is not before us.’ What are we doing that has been thrust upon us by the Labor here? Again, I agree with Senator McEwen. Party at a cost of $55 billion. Senator McE- It is typical Labor Party socialist legisla- wen, I certainly agree with you: it is typical tion—completely dysfunctional, completely Labor Party legislation. unthought through, completely without even Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) a modicum of business or commercial hon- (11.58 pm)—We live in a rapidly changing esty. world, and the government’s desire to create We went through the issue of the retailers. a national broadband network is a response Of course, the whole thing was that the NBN to this speed of change. Globally, we are was going to be wholesale only. That is fal- more interconnected than we have ever been. ling apart as we speak, again because Sena- I believe it is essential that Australia prepares tor Conroy had no idea about all of these itself for the future. That said, the NBN issues which, if he had gone out to the indus- would be an extraordinary investment into a try, they could have told him about. It cer- technology that has its supporters and also its tainly came up in the Senate committee hear- critics. Because the investment will require ings. The Labor Party are now rushing back tens of billions of taxpayer dollars, it is not at the last hour, as we speak on the bill, after going to be like any other business. Nor it has already been passed by the other house should it behave like any other business. of parliament—a great lot of scrutiny they This brings me to an area I have signifi- did over there, obviously! The government is cant problems with. We need to remember amending the bill again. That is typical of NBN Co. will be equally owned by all Aus- this whole sorry saga of the NBN. tralians, and I believe it should treat all cus- The $4.7 billion we were promised by the tomers equally. That is why I do not believe Labor Party before the 2007 election is now NBN Co. should be allowed to provide some some $55 billion. You cannot go back in his- carriers with preferential pricing, terms or tory, unfortunately, but if the coalition had conditions. Under the current arrangements won that 2007 election the NBN—fast telcos which showed the ability to provide a broadband to every home in Australia— quantifiable efficiency may be entitled to a would be up and running today. It would be better price or service from NBN Co. I be- almost 12 months old now and it would be lieve this is fundamentally wrong. Govern- there at an affordable price, taking account of ments should not be providing sweeter deals the existing networks that had been put in to one retail business over another. I under- place by the existing providers. It would stand the ACCC will prepare ‘guidelines’ for have been a competitive network that would any exemptions to the non-discriminatory have ensured that Australians could expect provisions, but I do not believe this is good that we would keep up with the latest tech- enough. Individual cases will not be scruti- nology in the future. But here we are debat- nised and any breaches will only come be- ing a bill entrenching a government monop- fore the ACCC if they are raised and, by oly, with provisions that not even the Greens then, it may be too late. After all, how do you part of the government are currently aware prove ‘efficiency’? How do you quantify

CHAMBER 1228 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

‘efficiency’? I think it is very important that long Telstra has dominated the industry and we do not make the mistakes that were made consumers have paid the price. with the privatisation of Telstra, where we I note the opposition’s concerns around had a vertically integrated monopoly, in ef- the potential for the intention of NBN Co. to fect. I think it is very important that in the be wholesale-only to be undermined by some context of this legislation we set the frame- aspects of this legislation—the National work very clearly in ensuring that there is Broadband Network Companies Bill 2011 not discrimination in pricing. and the Telecommunications Legislation Under the legislation, exemptions may be Amendment (National Broadband Network provided under a very broad term which cur- Measures—Access Arrangements) Bill 2011. rently has no framework for how it would be I can see the opposition’s argument that al- applied. I am concerned that the companies lowing utilities direct access to NBN Co. that will be best suited to demonstrating effi- means that the role of NBN Co. will go be- ciency will be the larger established telcos. yond that of a wholesaler. However, my un- We should not be setting up arrangements derstanding is that the legislation will enable which favour the large telcos at the expense utilities wholesale access to NBN Co. for of small or newer players. It would entrench ‘necessary and desirable’ uses only—for ex- the big telcos’ positions and set up barriers ample the road network and rail system for smaller telcos who often are so crucial monitoring. More details are needed about for providing innovation and new products the process which determines what is ‘neces- and services. They are so critical in driving sary and desirable’ and to have sufficient competition in the marketplace. safeguards to ensure that it does not cover I understand that in business wholesalers such things as the telephones and internet in provide goods or services at different rates the head office. Further, any cost savings to depending on the retailer, but NBN Co. is not utilities by allowing them to access NBN Co. like any other business. It is owned, in effect, as a wholesaler rather than having to go by the taxpayer, and governments should not through a retail service provider would, I be playing favourites. Is it not inevitable that suspect, result in lower costs for their cus- the big telecommunications providers, such tomers. as Telstra and Optus, will be the ones who Similarly, I understand the opposition has will benefit most from such an exemption? I concerns about provisions which allow cor- note that the CEO of NBN Co., Mr Mike porations who are willing to invest in their Quigley, has publicly stated that volume dis- infrastructure and obtain a carrier’s licence counting will not occur; however, the provi- wholesale access to NBN Co. The issue of sion for it still exists within the legislation. I scope creep is something I am concerned think that is highly problematic. Volume dis- about and will continue to consider as we go counting means that the Telstras and Optuses into the committee process. of this world could be able to access the Finally, on the issue of cherry picking, I NBN at different rates or terms and condi- note the opposition’s concerns that it may be tions based purely on the fact that they hold anticompetitive, but I do also note that this is the majority of the market. This is my con- a significant taxpayer funded investment cern: the big players will continue to domi- which must be protected to some extent. I nate the telecommunications market and the believe that the removal of price discrimina- smaller providers will be pushed out. The tion provisions and volume discounting may end result will be bad for consumers. For too

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1229 provide the competition needed at the retail It is worth referring to the explanatory end which will allay any need utilities and memorandum for this legislation. Page 1 corporates have to access NBN Co. directly. says: After all, if the retail service providers offer Structural separation may, but does not need to, competitive deals to the Westpacs, Australia involve the creation of a new company by Telstra Posts and Origins of this world, they will not and the transfer of its fixed-line assets to that new see any need to invest and become carriers company. Alternatively it may involve Telstra themselves. progressively migrating its fixed-line traffic to the NBN over an agreed period of time and under set I believe the NBN is a good idea. We need regulatory arrangements, and sell or cease to use to invest in broadband technology that will its fixed-line assets on an agreed basis. This ap- allow Australia to stay in line with telecom- proach will ultimately lead to a national outcome munications developments internationally, where there is a wholesale-only network not con- allow businesses to be able to compete inter- trolled by any retail company—in other words, nationally and allow households to have ac- full structural separation in time. Such a negoti- cess to the internet at speeds we once ated outcome would be consistent with the thought out of this world but which are now wholesale-only, open access market structure to mainstream in so many countries. But the be delivered through the National Broadband Network. legislation that supports this technology needs to be watertight. We need to ensure the I note that other senators—and I am sure system works profitably but also fairly. I Senator McEwen will shout me down if I am cannot accept that preferential pricing or wrong—made reference to the importance of conditions are fair. having open access with the National Broad- band Network. My interpretation of ‘open There is a lot at stake here, and Australian access’ means ensuring that there is not price governments do not have a good track record discrimination. That is quite critical. when it comes to telecommunications. There was AUSSAT, which was later described by The explanatory memorandum is in black former Prime Minster as ‘a and white but it seems that some of the pro- billion-dollar piece of space junk’, and there visions of these bills go against the very is no doubt that the privatisation of Telstra grain of the fundamentals of this legislation. created a vertically integrated monopoly in The NBN will structurally separate Telstra our telecommunications market. That is not and nothing that happens through preferen- just my view; it is also the view of the tial pricing or some other measure should be OECD, which found: allowed to benefit the big telcos at the ex- pense of smaller players. … despite an enviable record of deregulation, Australia stands almost alone in allowing an his- I note that there are provisions in these toric monopoly to continue to dominate its tele- bills concerning privatisation. This is an im- communications. portant issue. We do not want a repeat of That is one reason why we need to break that history where a short-term political decision up. That is why I supported the structural is made that ends up costing us all dearly in separation of Telstra. I believe that was the the longer term, as I believe we saw with the right thing to do because it has so simply privatisation of Telstra. In summary, it is constrained our telecommunications industry possible to have a good idea but to execute it and allowed the domination of Telstra in badly. My concern when it comes to prefer- telecommunications. ential pricing and conditions is that we are seeing just that.

CHAMBER 1230 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Senator ARBIB (New South Wales— the two parliamentary committees the gov- Minister for Indigenous Employment and ernment has established to monitor the NBN. Economic Development, Minister for Sport The government welcomes appropriate and Minister for Social Housing and Home- scrutiny of NBN Co.’s operations. The gov- lessness) (12.07 pm)—The government’s ernment welcomes the report of the Senate National Broadband Network policy will Environment and Communications Legisla- deliver access to high-speed broadband for tion Committee and its recommendations all Australians and will also deliver structural that the bills should be passed. However, the reform of the telecommunications industry to government does not support the amend- promote for the first time sustainable retail ments to the bills proposed by coalition sena- level competition. Together, the National tors in their minority report. These amend- Broadband Network Companies Bill 2011 ments have already been rejected in the and the Telecommunications Legislation House. Amendment (National Broadband Network The government also believes that it is Measures—Access Arrangements) Bill 2011 important that utilities should, if they wish will ensure that NBN Co. delivers the gov- to, be able to purchase basic connectivity ernment’s objectives. The NBN Companies services from NBN Co. for their sole internal Bill sets out key obligations on NBN Co. to use. Banning this, as the opposition pro- limit it and focus it on wholesale-only tele- poses, could inhibit the deployment of smart communications. It also covers the govern- infrastructure. The government also opposes ment ownership and provides for the even- the opposition’s proposed amendment that tual sale of the Commonwealth’s stake in the NBN Co. should be restricted through statute company, including clear parliamentary to operating at layer 2 in the telecommunica- oversight. tions technology stack. It is clear from the The NBN access arrangements bill estab- government’s statement of expectations to lishes clear supply equivalence and transpar- NBN Co., and from NBN Co.’s corporate ency obligations for NBN Co. that will en- plan, that NBN Co. must operate at layer 2. sure it can provide a robust platform for vig- However, some of the technical functionality orous retail competition. The bill also sets that NBN Co.’s customers want operates at out obligations for providers of superfast layer 3. A simple black-and-white layer 2 fixed line networks to ensure they operate rule and statute would therefore be inflexible under comparable regulatory arrangements and counterproductive. If such certainty is to those applying to NBN Co. required in the future, the NBN Companies The government believes that the bills Bill provides that the minister can make a strike an appropriate balance between con- licence condition on what services NBN Co. trolling NBN Co.’s operations and providing must and must not supply. sufficient flexibility to respond to market The government also rejects the opposi- circumstances. The government supported tion’s amendments to provisions in the NBN the Australian Greens amendment to the access arrangements bill designed to deliver NBN access bill to add NBN Co. as a pre- a level playing field in the rollout of super- scribed authority under the FOI Act with an fast fixed-line networks. Removal of the exemption for documents in relation to its level-playing-field provisions will undermine commercial activities. This is in addition to the government’s policy that NBN Co. de- the usual oversight activities applying to liver uniform national wholesale prices, as such a government business enterprise and

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1231 well as NBN Co.’s business case which pro- The NBN access arrangements bill already vides for a cross-subsidy from high-value contains safeguards to address the concerns. areas to less profitable areas, like most of Under the bill, NBN Co. cannot offer a vol- regional Australia. This will lead to less equi- ume discount unless it is in accordance with table outcomes for regional Australians and a framework that has been approved by the less robust retail competition. ACCC as part of NBN Co.’s special access Without these provisions, many communi- undertaking. Further, any differentiated deals ties would get a non-NBN solution and could must be published so there will be full trans- be serviced by a single, vertically integrated parency and the ACCC and access seekers provider that does not provide access to other can take action if they consider that the rules providers. This means that end users serviced have been breached. by the provider would not have access to the The government will be proposing some same kinds of service outcomes that would amendments that will further strengthen the be available to end users on the NBN. Re- ability of the NBN to deliver on its nation- sponding to a comment made by the Senate building objectives, that will improve the Environment and Communications Legisla- operation of the bills and that will deliver tion Committee that the level-playing-field further certainty for industry and the com- arrangements could be further clarified, we munity. For example, a series of amendments have been engaging with industry on this clarifies the operation of the level-playing- matter, and the government will shortly be field provisions, ensuring they are focused introducing amendments in the parliament to more tightly on local access networks, target- address this. ing residential and small business customers, The government also rejects the opposi- and that minor extensions to existing super- tion’s proposed amendments to the provi- fast networks, and connections of new cus- sions dealing with the possible future privati- tomers to existing networks will not be sub- sation of NBN Co. The opposition’s propos- ject to the provisions. As indicated last De- als would simply enable a future coalition cember, the government will also propose government to sell NBN Co. as quickly as amendments to the level-playing-field provi- possible, regardless of the needs of regional sions to add a wholesale-only requirement. I and rural Australians and the public benefit look forward to debating these amendments from restructuring the telecommunications in committee. market. The effect of this removal would The passage of these bills, as recom- also remove the right of a future parliament mended by the Senate legislation committee, to disallow any sale. The government con- will provide certainty for NBN Co. and in- siders that a sale decision is best made in the dustry and facilitate the rollout of the NBN future by the government and parliament of so we can get on with delivering the benefits the day. of superfast broadband for all Australians. The opposition’s view that any discrimi- Debate (on motion by Senator Arbib) ad- nation that aids efficiency should be struck journed. out of the NBN legislation shows an inherent Ordered that the resumption of the debate misunderstanding of how these provisions be made an order of the day for a later hour. will work. Discrimination based on effi- ciency has long been recognised to promote competition and innovation in the market.

CHAMBER 1232 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

BUSINESS for which three of those people were con- Rearrangement victed. The offences in question were both extremely serious and stood out as matters Senator ARBIB (New South Wales— demanding a response. Indeed, there was a Minister for Indigenous Employment and Defence response, with an internal inquiry. Economic Development, Minister for Sport and Minister for Social Housing and Home- The legislation brought forward quite lessness) (12.14 pm)—I move: properly by the government and the minister That intervening business be postponed till af- is to provide protection to defence bases and ter consideration of the following government facilities. The facilities and infrastructure of business orders of the day: the defence estate support the activities of No. 4––Defence Legislation Amendment (Secu- over 90,000 people right across Australia. In rity of Defence Premises) Bill 2010 relation to the estate, Defence in its submis- sion to the committee noted that it is: No. 5––Australian Civilian Corps Bill 2010 ... the largest and most complex land and property No. 6––Screen Australia (Transfer of Assets) Bill holding in Australia. It provides the facilities 2010. which directly enable the generation, projection Question agreed to. and sustainment of operational capability. The DEFENCE LEGISLATION Defence estate also supports our personnel, pro- AMENDMENT (SECURITY OF viding them with a safe place to work and their DEFENCE PREMISES) BILL 2010 families to live. Second Reading There are approximately 88 major defence bases or defence premises in Australia. The Debate resumed from 27 October 2010, defence estate, which covers 3.4 million hec- on motion by Senator Farrell: tares of land, comprises approximately 370 That this bill be now read a second time. owned properties and an additional 350 un- Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia) der lease. The estate includes 34,000 struc- (12.15 pm)—The opposition supports the tures and consists of training areas; com- Defence Legislation Amendment (Security mand headquarters; airfields; ship repair and of Defence Premises) Bill 2010. Indeed, we wharfing facilities; accommodation; depots; have a very fine committee report from the warehouses; explosive ordnance storehouses; Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade training, education, research and testing fa- Legislation Committee. I will say very cilities; and office buildings. The estimated briefly, in the short time I have to talk about gross replacement value of the estate is over this—because it is non-controversial—that $64 billion. this legislation arose from two high-profile Accordingly, you can see the nature of the incidents. Firstly, there was the theft of 10 importance of this legislation, which, LARS rocket launchers, wherein a former amongst other things, strengthens the legal army captain was imprisoned in relation to regime for Defence Force members who may 21 offences relating to the theft of those be required to use force involving death or rocket launchers. Secondly, the other major grievous bodily harm, establishes a statutory incident that brought this legislation on—or regime of search and seizure powers and the mischief to be arrested, if you like, which updates the existing trespass offence and is behind this legislation—was the arrest and associated arrest powers in the Defence Act charging of five individuals with planning an 1903. The powers introduced in the new part armed attack on the Holsworthy army base, confer security functions including identity

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1233 and authorisation checks and search and sei- and federal police and then defence person- zure powers on three classes of officials oth- nel in dealing with such threats. I look for- erwise termed ‘defence security officials’, ward to seeing and being told about memo- including defence contracted security guards, randa of understanding between state and security authorised members of the Defence federal police officers, relating to defence Force and defence-security-screening em- locations around Australia in particular ployees who are Australian Public Service states, as to what the proforma activity and employees of the Department of Defence. standard operating procedure will be in the The role of defence contracted security interaction between police and those author- guards is principally restricted to performing ised defence personnel who have the capac- the consensual security functions. The non- ity to do non-consensual searches and who consensual powers are largely reserved for also, in reasonable and necessary circum- the security authorised members of the De- stances, use lethal force. I commend this bill fence Force and the defence-security- and I commend the government on its screening employees. Whilst all three classes amendments. of officials are empowered to use force in Senator ARBIB (New South Wales— restricted circumstances, including that to Minister for Indigenous Employment and restrain and detain a person, the principle Economic Development, Minister for Sport that underlies such action is that such force and Minister for Social Housing and Home- shall be necessary and reasonable. The lessness) (12.21 pm)—in reply—I thank power to use force likely to cause death or Senator Johnston for his comments on and grievous bodily harm is restricted to security support for the Defence Legislation Amend- authorised members of the Defence Force, ment (Security of Defence Premises) Bill only in the context of a current or imminent 2010. I commend the bill to the Senate. attack on defence premises which is likely to Question agreed to. cause death or serious injury to persons on Bill read a second time. those defence premises. Other defence secu- rity officials are not so empowered or author- Third Reading ised. So, broadly speaking, we have defined Bill passed through its remaining stages circumstances where particular and specified without amendment or debate. defence security personnel can exercise le- AUSTRALIAN CIVILIAN CORPS BILL thal force in circumstances which must be 2010 necessary and reasonable, which I think is a Second Reading great benefit to establishing a clear matrix and legislative framework for people to go Debate resumed from 15 November, on about the business of protecting our national motion by Senator McLucas: interest. That this bill be now read a second time. In closing, the committee made a number Senator BACK (Western Australia) of recommendations, all of which are very (12.22 pm)—I rise to support the Australian important. But the particular one I want to Civilian Corps Bill 2010 and, in so doing, I draw attention to is the need for the Depart- have a couple of comments about a couple of ment of Defence to bring forward memo- risk provisos that I believe should be put into randa of understanding so that there is a place. Firstly, this is an example of what clearly identified matrix on the table as to Australians do best. We are innovative over- how matters should proceed between state seas. We do not tend to impose our standards

CHAMBER 1234 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 overseas and we have great capacity in the is to actually apply what we have succeeded history of being able to use local resources with in this country to regions of the world and work with local communities to achieve where it will have its greatest benefit. I the goals. This bill will in fact allow a proc- would urge acceptance of the bill so as to ess in which this can be happening in a more expedite that. organised and formal fashion. It also allows a The benefits to recipients are enormous, to tremendous conjunction between Defence, families, to communities in the recipient ar- policing agencies, and public and private eas and to governments. But there are also sectors in delivering the sort of aid and assis- enormous benefits to the providers. One of tance that we believe would be necessary as the great disadvantages of being an island is a result of this act being passed. that not enough of us get off it and not The regions where I believe we should be enough people actually come to understand most active are those where Australia has its what the challenges are overseas. I am not sphere of influence—that is, in the Pacific talking about the holiday to Bali; I am talk- Islands, South-East Asia and, to some extent, ing about experiencing life in other commu- India and the Middle East. I would urge that nities around the world. Therefore there are we do not go too far beyond those bounda- enormous benefits to people who are expert ries. The types of incidents are obvious, es- in what they are doing here in Australia actu- pecially those of natural disasters of the ally applying that expertise and learning types that we have seen in our region in re- something of the culture of people in our cent times. Can I also urge that there are region. They themselves are enriched as a other incidents that are unrelated to natural result of this experience. disasters where Australia has a proud history I do have some provisos. I want an under- and where I think, under the auspices of this standing of the risks that are involved. For bill, we can be even more active—for exam- example, there must be very careful screen- ple, a disease called the Nipah virus, which ing of would-be candidates and those who was detected in Malaysia some years ago. It want to participate. I would say that there was a virus disease affecting pigs and, would have to be thorough briefing in ad- through direct contact with pigs, humans. vance and early selection of team leadership Through the excellence of Australian re- for whatever project is contemplated. There searchers under the auspices, as I understand needs to be a clear statement of objectives so it, of the Australian Biosecurity CRC for that people have something in addition to Emerging Infectious Disease where they goodwill and their own expertise. They must worked with the Malaysians, and the inte- understand what they are there to do, what grated efforts of scientists around the world, the KPIs are and the expected time frames they discovered what the disease was. It is a involved. The deployment must be safe for disease of some interest in Australia, because all participants. It must have adequate pro- the Nipah virus is very closely related to the tection: legislative protection, health and Hendra virus—an example where a corps insurance and other protections. At the same properly established would quickly be even time there must be support for families at more active. I can also think of another ex- home. As one who has worked overseas a ample in the agricultural context where Aus- good deal of my career, I know the pressure tralians can do what we do best, with regard that goes on families remaining and they are to new crop rotations, minimum tillage, use all too often forgotten. Having said that, as of fertilisers and water conservation and that with any military deployment there is the

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1235 essence and the essential of some degree of 2010, because it is legislation which I think post-deployment debriefing and counselling. appeals to the ‘better angels’ of most sena- I have a couple of recommendations, if I tors. Sadly, in this place there are not too may. There should be developed a register of many occasions when we all feel comfort- interested persons and their areas of exper- able about the fact that we are supporting tise so that well in advance of Australia mak- legislation which has an element of great ing a decision under this act to deploy people idealism. I think this particular legislation we know who is available, what their exper- contains that element of idealism, so I am tise is and what the limits might be. The best particularly pleased to speak to it today. way of establishing that is some sort of The broad idea of an Australian civilian online facility where expressions of interest corps, I assume, is based on the great Ameri- could be sought. It will then allow the de- can idea of a peace corps—which, as you partment to do that preliminary vetting that is will recall, Madam Acting Deputy President, so necessary to make sure that the person is was an idea that emerged from the Kennedy appropriate to the task and is capable of sur- campaign for election to the presidency in viving in the overseas country, let alone 1959-60 and became rapidly an idea which lending their expertise. I mentioned the iden- many people embraced as something that tification of potential project leaders. They reflected the idealism of the American peo- may come from the public sector, the private ple and that could make a very practical con- sector; they may come from defence; they tribution to America’s role in the interna- may come from policing organisations. But tional arena. they should be identified and their availabil- We all recall Mr Sargent Shriver, who be- ity understood, so that expectations are came the first director—and was a distin- matched to deliverables. Country specific guished director—of the American Peace templates for countries for all participants Corps. He was a Kennedy brother-in-law, as could well be worked on in advance so that I remember. When he died, I think last year, people understand the risks and they under- many of his obituaries drew attention to his stand the opportunities of the employment very distinguished service as the senior offi- they are contemplating when they are there cial in the American Peace Corps and went and after they have returned. Given the brev- on at great length about his contribution and ity of time, my last recommendation would the great success that he made of the Peace be to ensure that no lessons are lost, that Corps. anybody becoming contractually bound to The Australian Civilian Corps has, it is participate in a project of this nature would fair to say, rather more prosaic origins. It also agree to actually prepare a report on comes, as I understand it, from the govern- their deployment within a limited period of ment’s 2020 Summit in April 2008 and was time of returning—eight weeks would appear announced by former Prime Minister Rudd to me to be reasonable—so that they get the in October 2009. I do not think it is being maximum benefit and the country in which churlish to say that this is one of the better they have been deployed gets the benefit but, ideas from the 2020 Summit. Indeed, it is most importantly, we learn lessons. I com- one of the few ideas that have found their mend the bill to the Senate. way into legislation. Regardless of its ori- Senator TROOD (Queensland) (12.28 gins, I think we can recognise that this is a am)—It is a great pleasure indeed to be able good idea and a strong idea, and it is one that to speak to the Australian Civilian Corps Bill

CHAMBER 1236 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 the coalition is very pleased to support. It $52 million will be provided for the rapid recognises and highlights the reality that deployment of Australian civilians into over- when natural disasters and crises occur seas disaster and conflict affected countries. around the world, particularly when there are That seems to be inconsistent with the decla- conflicts involved, assistance to alleviate rations within the explanatory memorandum. human suffering is often a vital requirement. Perhaps the minister would care to make an As we contemplate events around Austra- observation about that when he makes his lia—although this bill is directed to external closing remarks. I note that, in his contribu- activity—and think about the earthquake in tion, Senator Back made the point that it is Christchurch and the earthquake and subse- vital that those who might commit them- quent tsunami in Japan, and the terrible suf- selves to this task be provided with a great fering that those events have created, we see deal of security. We are particularly con- that they underscore the assistance that the cerned to know how the security of the civil- Australian Civilian Corps will provide to ians who sign on to the corps will be pro- people who may need it. vided—how they will be protected during Civilian assistance early on in a crisis, and the course of their operations. That seems to after an event or a tragedy of the kinds that me to be a vital concern. have occurred recently in our region, often The second broad question relates to a po- helps with rebuilding. It helps to stabilise a tential conflict of interest in the legislation. situation and can give great encouragement The legislation is cast in a way whereby the to countries when they need to recover. The Director-General of AusAID will primarily idea that there ought to be a discrete and spe- be the responsible party. He will create a cific Australian corps, a scheme in which register, as I understand it, of those who wish idealistic Australians can be involved in to volunteer for this kind of activity. The leg- helping recovery, is a very good one. It is a islation makes clear—and I do not have any practical and innovative way of addressing particular objection to this—that people em- what is clearly, and sadly, an important ployed by AusAID could in fact become part growing international need. of the Civilian Corps. That makes a great The report of the Senate Foreign Affairs, deal of sense, because there is a tremendous Defence and Trade Legislation Committee amount of expertise within AusAID that on this bill supported the bill enthusiastically. could be very useful in circumstances of the It was a unanimous report. It made a series kind we are contemplating in this piece of of recommendations about the way in which legislation. the bill could be improved. The government None of that concerns me terribly much. has accepted some of those, and I welcome What does raise some questions is the matter that, but it has chosen not to accept others. I of who determines whether the person de- will say a bit more about that in a moment, ployed overseas goes as an employee of but there are two concerns that I want to AusAID or as a member of the ACC and raise in the early stages of my remarks which what kinds of implications might follow reflect general concerns within the coalition from the fact that an AusAID person is taken about the bill. One relates to the direct finan- offline—what sort of impact might it have on cial impact that the bill might have. The ex- their responsibilities within AusAID itself. It planatory memorandum notes that there is no seems to me that the director-general is po- direct financial impact. On the other hand, in tentially in a difficult situation. He—or she, AusAID’s Focus Online there is a note that but for the moment he—is in a situation

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1237 where he has to make decisions as to Recommendation 5 was not agreed to by whether having AusAID employees is in the the government. It relates to what I call the interests of his agency or whether to have no disadvantage test that might be applied in people with similar kinds of expertise as vol- these circumstances. The committee recom- unteers on the register. These are matters that mended that the legislation ensure that mem- need a bit of clarification. bers of the Public Service, or indeed other The Senate report made 11 recommenda- employees, would not be disadvantaged in tions, as I noted. I was very delighted to see terms of their entitlements should they de- that the government at least fully accepted cide to commit themselves to an ACC de- four of them. It partially accepted two of the ployment. It seems to me fundamental and recommendations but rejected four of the without contest that, if an idealistic Austra- recommendations. I want to spend a few lian chooses to make a commitment of this moments making a few remarks on some of kind and chooses to become involved in the the recommendations that were rejected or ACC, they should not suffer any kind of partially rejected. Regarding the first rec- work or professional disadvantage in doing ommendation of the report, the committee so. The committee was very strongly of the was of the view that the legislation should view that this was something that ought to be include a statement on the humanitarian and included in the legislation and, sadly, the developmental purpose for establishing the government has chosen not to accept that Australian Civilian Corps. This recommen- recommendation. dation was made by several of the submis- Finally, and along much the same lines, sions to the committee, most notably by recommendation 8 of the committee’s report World Vision. It commended itself to the suggested that the bill contain provisions committee because this is an exciting new governing the protection of whistleblower venture that deserves some sort of clarity of rights, prohibition on patronage and favourit- statement about the intention behind the leg- ism and promotion of employment equity. islation. Why the government would reject This is one of the recommendations which that possibility is somewhat confusing to me. was only partially accepted by the govern- I would have thought it was something the ment. The recommendation in relation to government would readily agree to. patronage and favouritism was accepted. The The second recommendation from the re- government chose not to accept the recom- port, which was only partially agreed, related mendation with regard to whistleblowers or to values of the ACC in relation to the Aus- the promotion of employment equity. There tralian Public Service. I do not often find is an explanation in the government’s re- myself in this place supporting the sugges- sponse. I do not find it particularly persua- tions of the CPSU, or indeed any other union sive. I would have thought that these were within the organisation. But the CPSU made elementary requirements that might well a recommendation to the Senate committee have been accepted and found favour with suggesting that a stronger connection should the government in the implementation of the be made within the legislation between the legislation. ACC values and those of the Australian Pub- With those reservations, I say that the coa- lic Service. The committee supported that lition enthusiastically supports this piece of suggestion, and I think it is something that legislation. Senator Back, in his contribution the government might have turned its mind to the debate, made some very good points. I to. am not in a position to comment on the ob-

CHAMBER 1238 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 servations he made in the earlier part of his The Australian Civilian Corps Bill 2010 … speech with regard to viruses of one kind or creates a legal framework for the employment another, but I am sure they were very inci- and management of Australian Civilian Corps sive and insightful and should also recom- employees. mend this legislation to the government. I Australian Civilian Corps employees will be a suggest that the observations I have made unique category of Commonwealth employee, about the concerns we have about the bill engaged for specified periods to work in crisis environments overseas before returning to their should also be taken seriously in resolving regular employment. this legislation. This is clearly a very positive formalisation Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia) of what has been, to a very large extent, an (12.42 pm)—As you can see, Madam Acting ad hoc situation. Deputy President, the opposition is very sup- portive of this interesting and important A couple of other issues that come to me piece of legislation, the Australian Civilian through the legislation include that the report Corps Bill 2010, which formalises our rela- is contained within AusAID. Again this un- tionship with our overseas neighbours and derlines Senator Trood’s concerns with re- others who become affected adversely by spect to the operation. Annually we have to natural events, disasters and all manner of sift through the AusAID report to see what conceivable mayhem where our expertise is ACC employees have been getting up to and required to deliver some assistance. Indeed, how they have been managed and what mat- we think of Japan, we think of tsunamis and ters they have undertaken. Can I also say that we think of all sorts of things that have oc- the values as espoused within the legislation curred in our recent past that have required but unspecified are awaiting the regulations, us to get aboard aircraft and to be delivered as is the code of conduct. These are two very into foreign lands and to administer services important things, yet the legislation goes on and expertise. to deal with what will happen if there is a breach of the code of conduct. So we have I want to say thank you to Senator Trood legislation setting out the punitive response and Senator Back. Obviously they have for a breach of yet undefined codes of con- taken some great time to study this legisla- duct. I find that rather curious. tion and participate in the committee reports surrounding it. They are much wiser and Having said all of that, as you can see, more knowledgeable than me with respect to Madam Acting Deputy President, the opposi- these matters. I also want to support the is- tion is very supportive of formalising these sues that Senator Trood raised with respect to matters, as it appears there will be ever- a fundamental threshold issue: the protection increasing call upon our expertise to travel of our personnel overseas. The legislation overseas and to provide assistance to our appears to be light on with respect to that, near neighbours and further. Thank you. may I say. The conflict and overlap between Senator ARBIB (New South Wales— the Australian Civilian Corps personnel and Minister for Indigenous Employment and AusAID appears to be ill defined, if I can say Economic Development, Minister for Sport that. Having said that, I do not want to de- and Minister for Social Housing and Home- tract from the benefits of formalising and lessness) (12.45 pm)—The Australian Civil- putting on the table a template of rules and a ian Corps is an important new capability that structure for our assistance overseas. The will enable Australia to more effectively re- explanatory memorandum to the bill states: spond to requests for assistance following

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1239 natural disasters and conflict. For this initia- the corps. Funding comes from core AusAID tive to be successful, the Australian Civilian funding. In relation to the appointment of the Corps Bill 2010 provides for a framework director-general and any conflict of interest, for the effective and fair employment and my advice is that the director-general is best management of Australian Civilian Corps placed to make operational decisions and all employees. The bill has been considered by staffing decisions. Obviously this will be the Senate, the Scrutiny of Bills Committee based on the register and the framework and the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and which I have just mentioned. Regarding se- Trade Legislation Committee. The Foreign curity of our personnel, which of course the Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Com- government takes seriously at all times, mittee received submissions from the Com- processes are in place. There will be pre- munity and Public Sector Union and the Aus- deployment planning and assessment of se- tralian Red Cross, amongst others. In re- curity. Security recommendations will then sponse to a number of recommendations be made to the Director-General of AusAID. made by the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Adequate security plans will be put in place Trade Legislation Committee, amendments based on a risk mitigation strategy, and the to the bill will be moved. The amendments government will have an opportunity to ap- will provide Australian Civilian Corps em- prove the plans. I commend the bill to the ployees with the right to seek external review Senate. of disciplinary decisions made by the Question agreed to. AusAID Director-General concerning those Bill read a second time. employees. The external review arrange- ments and the powers of the reviewer will be In Committee substantially similar to those under the Pub- Bill—by leave—taken as a whole. lic Service Act that currently apply in rela- Senator ARBIB (New South Wales— tion to misconduct decisions concerning Minister for Indigenous Employment and Australian Public Service employees. Economic Development, Minister for Sport To address the concerns raised by the and Minister for Social Housing and Home- committee, other minor amendments to the lessness) (12.49 pm)—I table a supplemen- bill will also be moved. These minor tary explanatory memorandum relating to the amendments include an express requirement government amendments to be moved to this to include reasons in any notice of termina- bill and a correction to the explanatory tion of employment with the corps. Another memorandum. The memorandum was circu- amendment makes it explicit that a Com- lated in the chamber earlier today. I seek monwealth employee cannot be compelled to leave to move government amendments (1) serve in the corps and participation in the to (9) on sheet BT277 together. corps is entirely voluntary. In addition, an Leave granted. amendment will be moved to expressly pro- Senator ARBIB—I move: hibit patronage and favouritism in relation to Australian Civilian Corps employees. (1) Clause 5, page 3 (after line 22), after the definition of overseas, insert: In relation to a couple of the questions that Presiding Officer means: Senator Trood raised, I am advised that the budget impact is $52 million, which is in (a) the President of the Senate; or program expenditure. This bill creates the (b) the Speaker of the House of Repre- regulatory framework for the employment of sentatives.

CHAMBER 1240 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

(2) Clause 17, page 7 (line 9), omit “employees; (5) The Director-General must not arrange and”, substitute “employees.”. for a person to conduct a review under (3) Clause 17, page 7 (lines 10 to 17), omit this section unless the Director-General paragraph (6)(c). is satisfied that the person has appro- priate knowledge, skills and experi- (4) Clause 17, page 7 (lines 18 to 21), omit sub- ence. clause (7). (6) A review under this section must not be (5) Page 7 (after line 28), after clause 17, insert: conducted by a person if the person is: 17A Review of decisions relating to (a) the Director-General; or breaches of Australian Civilian Corps Code of Conduct (b) an APS employee in AusAID; or (1) A person who is, or has been, an Aus- (c) an Australian Civilian Corps em- tralian Civilian Corps employee is enti- ployee. tled to review, in accordance with the (7) The Director-General must not arrange regulations, of any of the following de- for a committee to conduct a review cisions: under this section unless the Direc- (a) a determination that the person tor-General is satisfied that each mem- breached the Australian Civilian ber of the committee has appropriate Corps Code of Conduct when the knowledge, skills and experience. person was an Australian Civilian (8) A review under this section must not be Corps employee; conducted by a committee if a member (b) a decision to impose a sanction on of the committee is: the person for breaching the Austra- (a) the Director-General; or lian Civilian Corps Code of Conduct (b) an APS employee in AusAID; or when the person was an Australian (c) an Australian Civilian Corps em- Civilian Corps employee. ployee. (2) However, a person is not entitled to Powers and procedures review under this section of a decision to impose a sanction that consists of (9) Without limiting subsection (1), regula- termination of the person’s employ- tions made for the purposes of that sub- ment as an Australian Civilian Corps section may provide for the powers employee. available to a person or committee that conducts a review under this section. (3) The regulations may prescribe excep- tions to the entitlement. Recommendations in a report on a re- view Note: For example, the regulations might provide that there is no (10) A person or committee that has con- entitlement to review if the ap- ducted a review under this section (the plication for review is frivolous reviewer) may make recommendations or vexatious. in a report on the review but does not have power to make any binding deci- Person or committee to conduct a re- sion as a result of the review, except as view provided by the regulations. (4) The Director-General must arrange for: (11) If the reviewer is not satisfied with the (a) a person; or response to recommendations con- (b) a committee constituted in accor- tained in a report on a review under this dance with the regulations; section, the reviewer may give a report to conduct a review under this sec- on the matter to: tion. (a) the Minister; and

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1241

(b) either or both of the following: BUSINESS (i) the Prime Minister; Consideration of Legislation (ii) the Presiding Officers, for pres- Senator ARBIB (New South Wales— entation to the Parliament. Minister for Indigenous Employment and (6) Clause 23, page 10 (line 10), before “The Economic Development, Minister for Sport Director-General”, insert “(1)”. and Minister for Social Housing and Home- (7) Clause 23, page 10 (after line 13), at the end lessness) (12.50 pm)—I seek leave to move a of the clause, add: motion relating to the consideration of a bill. (2) The notice must set out the ground or Leave granted. grounds for the termination. Senator ARBIB—I move: (8) Clause 27, page 13 (after line 6), at the end of the clause, add: That the provisions of paragraphs (5) to (8) of standing order 111 not apply to the Corporations (4) Paragraph (2)(a) does not apply to a and Other Legislation Amendment (Trustee Com- grant of leave to an employee unless panies and Other Measures) Bill 2011, allowing it the employee has requested the leave. to be considered during this period of sittings. (9) Page 15 (after line 8), after clause 29, insert: I table a statement of reasons justifying the 29A Prohibition of patronage and favour- need for this bill to be considered during itism these sittings and seek leave to have the A person exercising powers under this statement incorporated in Hansard. Act or the regulations: Leave granted. (a) in relation to the engagement of Australian Civilian Corps employ- The statement read as follows— ees; or CORPORATIONS LEGISLATION (b) otherwise in relation to Australian AMENDMENT (TRUSTEE COMPANIES Civilian Corps employees; AND OTHER MEASURES) BILL must do so without patronage or fa- Purpose of the Bill vouritism. The bill amends the trustee company provisions Question agreed to. of the Corporations Act 2001 (Chapter 5D), in particular to insert a regime for voluntary trans- Bill, as amended, agreed to. fers of business, to strengthen the common funds Bill reported with amendments; report regime, and other amendments to clarify the op- adopted. eration of the scheme. Third Reading The bill will also amend the Payment System (Regulation) Act 1998 to protect participants in Senator ARBIB (New South Wales— the automatic teller machine (ATM) system from Minister for Indigenous Employment and prosecution under the Competition and Consumer Economic Development, Minister for Sport Act 2010. and Minister for Social Housing and Home- Reasons for Urgency lessness) (12.50 pm)—I move: A transitional regulation in the Corporations That this bill be now read a third time. Amendment Regulations 2010 (No. 3), deems Question agreed to. certain trustee company subsidiaries to be Austra- Bill read a third time. lian financial services licensees. That provision expires on 30 April 2011. The intention of the transitional provision was to provide sufficient time to implement a voluntary transfer regime

CHAMBER 1242 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

(which is necessary to facilitate consolidation and least, perhaps, beyond the hallowed halls of restructuring in the industry) and for the Austra- Canberra. It contains some 1.6 million archi- lian Securities and Investments Commission to val items from Australia’s audio and visual process the voluntary transfers. heritage. In fact, when I had the honour of If the voluntary transfer regime is not in place in being the minister for the arts in the last year sufficient time before the deeming provision ex- of the , one of the occa- pires, a number of affected trustee companies will sions I will remember most fondly was list- be unable to legally operate their subsidiaries or ing a number of new items as flagship items carry out the necessary consolidations. While the transitional regulation may be able to be tempo- in the National Film and Sound Archive, in- rarily extended if the Governor-General in Coun- cluding—I will never forget—what I regard cil agrees, the industry requires the certainty of a as one of Australia’s most beloved popular legislated voluntary transfer regime. songs, the Aeroplane Jelly song. Were it later Further, the Payment Systems (Regulation) Regu- in the evening and the times not so serious, I lations 2006 which protects participants in the might almost be tempted to give the Senate a ATM system sunsets in March 2011, as regula- rendition of it. But I will restrain from the tions made for the purposes of section 51(1)(a)(ii) temptation of rendering the Aeroplane Jelly of the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 last song, the strains of which recall my child- for two years. To allow ATM participants to con- hood. Also on that occasion I had the pleas- tinue to comply with the Reserve Bank of Austra- ure of entering the Majestic Fanfare, the lia’s ATM reforms a legislative change to the wonderful piece of orchestral music that has Payment System (Regulation) Act 1998 is re- quired. introduced the ABC’s morning radio news for generations of Australians, on the na- SCREEN AUSTRALIA (TRANSFER OF tional archives’ list of special archival audio- ASSETS) BILL 2010 visual recordings. But I digress. Second Reading The purpose of this bill is to include Debate resumed from 28 February, on mo- among the transfer of various assets from tion by Senator Feeney: Screen Australia to the National Film and That this bill be now read a second time. Sound Archive of Australia a film collection Senator BRANDIS (Queensland) (12.52 in Screen Australia’s archive of some 5,000 pm)—The Screen Australia (Transfer of As- items, to augment the existing collection held sets) Bill 2010, which has the opposition’s by the National Film and Sound Archive of support, has the purpose of transferring cer- Australia of some 300,000 films. Those in- tain assets from Screen Australia, the entity clude items as various as the earliest known which—under the Kemp-Brandis reforms, if film of a Melbourne Cup race, in 1897, and I may call them so—replaced Film Australia, what is acknowledged to be the world’s first to the National Film and Sound Archive. It feature film, The Story of The Kelly Gang, also renames the National Film and Sound which was made in 1906. The opposition are Archive to the National Film and Sound Ar- very pleased to support this bill, as we have chive of Australia, lest anybody be in any and will continue to provide our very strong doubt as to which country it belongs. support to the National Film and Sound Ar- The National Film and Sound Archive of chive of Australia, as we should now call it, and indeed to Screen Australia. Australia, as we must now call it, is a mag- nificent cultural institution whose signifi- Senator ARBIB (New South Wales— cance I think is not widely appreciated—at Minister for Indigenous Employment and Economic Development, Minister for Sport

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1243 and Minister for Social Housing and Home- sidiaries to transfer the business of those sub- lessness) (12.55 pm)—I thank Senator Bran- sidiaries into one licensed entity, providing dis for that very passionate contribution. I administrative processes for the voluntary also thank other senators for their contribu- transfer of estate assets and liabilities as a tions and commend the Screen Australia whole rather than individually, altering exist- (Transfer of Assets) Bill 2010 to the Senate. ing transfer of business provisions by ena- Question agreed to. bling such a transfer to state and territory public trustees in cases of failing licence Bill read a second time. trustees, requiring that a prospective licensee Third Reading write to the minister responsible for adminis- Bill passed through its remaining stages tering chapter 5D explaining how it satisfies without amendment or debate. certain criteria before the Governor-General BUSINESS considers making a regulation to list the ap- plicant as a licensed trustee company, clari- Rearrangement fying and strengthening the magnitude of Senator ARBIB (New South Wales— penalties, and clarifying the powers of trus- Minister for Indigenous Employment and tee companies to charge for preparing tax Economic Development, Minister for Sport returns and to draw management fees and and Minister for Social Housing and Home- common funds administration fees from lessness) (12.56 pm)—I move: capital as a last resort. That intervening business be postponed till af- These changes are necessary reforms to ter consideration of the Corporations and Other improve the federal regulatory framework of Legislation Amendment (Trustee Companies and Other Measures) Bill 2011. the sector following the change from state and territory jurisdiction. It is good house- Question agreed to. keeping. With those few words, I commend CORPORATIONS AND OTHER the bill to the Senate. LEGISLATION AMENDMENT Senator ARBIB (New South Wales— (TRUSTEE COMPANIES AND OTHER Minister for Indigenous Employment and MEASURES) BILL 2011 Economic Development, Minister for Sport Second Reading and Minister for Social Housing and Home- Debate resumed from 3 March, on motion lessness) (12.58 pm)—I thank Senator Cor- by Senator McLucas: mann for his contribution. I commend the That this bill be now read a second time. Corporations and Other Legislation Amend- ment (Trustee Companies and Other Meas- Senator CORMANN (Western Australia) ures) Bill 2011 to the Senate. (12.57 pm)—The coalition supports the Cor- porations and Other Legislation Amendment Question agreed to. (Trustee Companies and Other Measures) Bill read a second time. Bill 2011. This bill amends the trustee com- Third Reading pany provisions in chapter 5D of the Corpo- Bill passed through its remaining stages rations Act 2001 to correct some oversights without amendment or debate. and unintended outcomes flowing from the 2010 reforms in the regulation of trustee cor- porations. They include allowing corporate groups with multiple trustee company sub-

CHAMBER 1244 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

BUSINESS highlighted, there has been considerable Rearrangement growth of the MBS over recent times. From 2004-05 to 2008-09, the number of MBS Senator ARBIB (New South Wales— items has grown by 23 per cent, the number Minister for Indigenous Employment and of providers has grown by 15 per cent, MBS Economic Development, Minister for Sport transactions have grown by 17 per cent and and Minister for Social Housing and Home- there was a 43 per cent increase in the value lessness) (12.59 pm)—I move: of MBS claims. With $15 billion worth of That government business order of the day No. taxpayers’ money spent on Medicare each 2, the Sex and Age Discrimination Legislation year—clearly growing rapidly—it is, of Amendment Bill 2010, be postponed to a later hour. course, appropriate that there are robust mechanisms in place to investigate and dis- Question agreed to. courage incorrect or false claims. HEALTH INSURANCE AMENDMENT Separate to investigating clinical issues, as (COMPLIANCE) BILL 2010 is the case with the Professional Services Second Reading Review, the compliance process is, of course, Debate resumed from 3 March, on motion focused on inappropriate billing and claim- by Senator McLucas: ing. The government has claimed that 20 per That this bill be now read a second time. cent of practitioners do not respond in rela- tion to compliance audits or refuse to coop- Senator CORMANN (Western Australia) erate with requests to substantiate benefits (1.00 pm)—It is quite intriguing to be debat- paid. They further argue that Medicare does ing this bill, the Health Insurance Amend- not currently have the power to make medi- ment (Compliance) Bill 2010, in this non- cal and health practitioners comply with such controversial slot, because it has had a very requests. Based on this information, we difficult birth in this parliament. This is, in agree that there is a case to make legislative fact, a 2008-09 budget measure which has changes. However, the documents required been before us on a number of occasions to substantiate claims may, of course, contain before. In fact, I have dealt with it in the pre- patient clinical information, which is why we vious parliament myself. The reason I am rightly need to approach this matter with speaking to this particular bill today on be- some caution. half of the coalition is in representation of Senator Fierravanti-Wells, who is absent This bill was first released as an exposure from the Senate this week. draft back in April 2009 and referred to the Senate Community Affairs Committee for This Health Insurance Amendment (Com- inquiry. The exposure draft generated a very pliance) Bill, of course, has been subject to strong response. The main concerns were much debate for a variety of reasons in the with respect to third parties viewing patient previous parliament. The bill seeks to im- clinical information and the impact this may plement the increased Medicare compliance have on the practitioner-patient relationship. audits from the 2008-09 budget. This meas- The majority report also raised questions ure proposed to increase Medicare compli- about Medicare staff qualifications and ca- ance audits from 500 to 2,500 per year and pacity to interpret and make judgments re- increase powers to secure documents from garding clinical records. doctors to substantiate Medicare claims. As the Department of Health and Ageing has

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1245

An important point made in evidence to jected by the minister. This is where I came the committee is that the MBS is complex in. I see the Deputy Clerk is smiling; he and a significant proportion of incorrect would well remember his invaluable assis- claims appear not to be deliberate. When tance in helping me draft some of these things are complex and burdensome, these amendments at the time. These proposed things can sometimes happen inadvertently. amendments to the Health Insurance Act There are large demands on health practitio- were intended to allow the parliament to dis- ners and their offices, and there will inevita- allow items on the general medical services bly be some administrative errors from time table and for the previous items and associ- to time. It is important to stress in this debate ated rebates to be revised. The amendments that incorrect claims are not necessarily the were instigated by the minister’s arbitrary result of fraudulent activity. There is a con- halving of rebates for cataract surgery. Un- tinuing role for government to simplify the fortunately at the time—as is often the case MBS and provide sufficient education and with this government and, in particular, Min- guidance regarding its interpretation. ister Roxon—the minister refused to consult These are common-sense measures to im- and negotiate with doctor and patient groups prove compliance without the patient privacy or allow for greater parliamentary scrutiny of issues resulting from using patient records as the drastic cuts she was seeking to impose on part of an audit process. In balancing the cataract rebates through the general medical needs of patient privacy and proper use of services table. The government blocked taxpayers’ funds, the coalition proposed a amendments that we put forward in that con- number of amendments to enhance safe- text in both the Senate and the House of Rep- guards in this legislation, which the govern- resentatives. ment has now largely included in amend- Just to make the point in relation to this ments to the bill which is now being pre- particular issue, this remains an unresolved sented to this parliament. policy issue for this parliament. The current As a result of the amendments proposed circumstance is that this government, or any by the coalition, Medicare must consult with other government, can cut government re- relevant professional bodies about the types bates through the Medicare Benefits Sched- of documents that contain information rele- ule irrespective of whether or not those cuts vant to ascertain whether payments should have the support of the parliament. In rela- have been made. Requests for information tion to the cuts at the time of rebates for cata- and documents must now be made in writ- ract surgery, it was obvious that the govern- ing. Notice must include the reason for the ment’s proposed cuts did not have the sup- CO’s concern about the payment and explain port of the Senate. In fact, the Senate will the actual issue that the person is required to pass a motion to disallow the particular cuts substantiate. Notice to produce documents that the government was trying to get will not include requests for information but through the parliament. The circumstance is whether the particular service was clinically that the Senate is not in a position to disallow relevant. A person may provide Medicare cuts to Medicare rebates without actually with additional information to substantiate an having those Medicare rebates disappear amount claimed. from the MBS altogether, which is of course a highly unsatisfactory situation because in There were other amendments to this bill practice it means that the Senate cannot do approved by the Senate at the time but re- anything about the Labor government’s at-

CHAMBER 1246 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 tempts to cut rebates through the MBS with- vented the original bill from passing the pre- out creating the uncertainty and the highly vious parliament. As far as cataract surgery is unsatisfactory circumstance where the MBS concerned, eventually the minister was item numbers disappear from the MBS alto- forced into a backdown. She was forced to gether. negotiate with patient groups and doctors It all sounds very technical, but this has and arrived at a compromise position. The actually got real impacts on real people, be- action of the coalition, with the support of cause the level of MBS rebate will determine the Greens, Senator Xenophon and Senator how much patients across Australia will have Fielding, forced the government to go back to pay for particular medical services. The to the negotiating table to make sure that lower the rebate, if the fee remains the same there was a more reasonable compromise. or increases further, the larger the out-of- However, who knows what the circum- pocket expense. The larger the out-of-pocket stances might be in the future if the govern- expense the less likely that some people will ment tries to pull a similar stunt which would be able to afford access to often very impor- hurt patients across Australia? tant healthcare services. Certainly the pro- The legislation before us provides that the posed cut of 50 per cent to the cataract sur- Medicare CEO must have a reasonable con- gery rebate to start off with from Nicola cern that the benefit paid for service exceeds Roxon and the Labor government would the amount that should have been paid. It is have made it nigh impossible for thousands important to know that Medicare cannot ran- and thousands of mostly senior Australians domly conduct compliance audits. The audits to afford and access life-changing cataract are only to ascertain that a service claimed surgery. Given the number of healthcare pro- was actually undertaken. Under section cedures that get rebated through the MBS, 129AAD(9), clinical relevance of the service you can see in a flash what sort of impact cannot be taken into account. That is a matter this can have on patients across Australia, that is appropriately a judgment for the rele- across a broad spectrum of healthcare ser- vant healthcare professional. The CEO must vices where there is a Medicare rebate which also take advice from a medical practitioner is invariably less than the fee that is being employed by Medicare on what types of charged by the provider. To have a system in documents may be requested for the pur- place at the moment where the government poses of this bill. Section 129AAD(6) stipu- can cut those Medicare rebates irrespective lates that any documents that contain clinical of what the Senate or the House of Represen- information do not have to be produced to tatives think about that and not to give the anyone other than an employee of Medicare Senate a proper opportunity to disallow any Australia who is a medical practitioner. cuts made and to revise the previous rebate Under this legislation, Medicare can only which was in place before the government compel the production of relevant documents sought to make that cut is a highly unsatis- if the person has been given a reasonable factory circumstance and one which will opportunity to respond to a written request to have to be resolved at some point in the fu- produce relevant documents. The bill does ture. Certainly the coalition will continue to not stipulate a record-keeping requirement; raise this issue moving forward. however, under section 129AAD the notice The minister refused to support the Sen- to produce documents must specify the de- ate’s amendments to the original bill on the tails of each professional service for which issue that I have just described, and that pre- documentary evidence is required; the rea-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1247 sons for the concern that an amount paid Medicare to inform them that an incorrect may exceed the amount that should have payment or claim has been made, the penalty been paid; the information relevant to ascer- is reduced in full. If the person voluntarily taining whether amounts paid should have informs Medicare after being contacted but been paid; how the document, extract or before notice is given to produce documents, copy is to be produced; and the period within the penalty is reduced by 50 per cent. Fi- which, and the place at which, the document, nally, if the person voluntarily informs Medi- extract or copy is to be produced. care after notice is given but before the end It is appropriate that there is clarity for of the period specified in the notice, the base health professionals as to what needs to be penalty is reduced by 25 per cent. In addi- provided and the reasons for it. The explana- tion, to improve compliance and reduce re- tory memorandum does specify that Medi- cidivism, there are circumstances where the care is working with the AMA and other base penalty can be increased. If a practitio- stakeholders to develop guidelines about the ner does not respond to a notice, the full types of information that may be required to amount of the services identified become substantiate claims. It is stated that the repayable and the penalty is increased by 25 guidelines will emphasise that patient re- per cent. Similarly, if a practitioner has been cords and clinical information should only be unable to substantiate an amount paid for provided where absolutely necessary. The other services in the previous 24 months and coalition does emphasise the importance of the total amount repaid exceeds $30,000, the this point and the need to carefully monitor penalty for the current amount is increased and scrutinise the use of clinical information by 50 per cent. once this measure is implemented. The con- Whilst the government may be focused on fidentiality of the doctor-patient relationship the compliance of health practitioners when should remain paramount. it comes to Medicare items, it is less forth- Another change this bill makes is to intro- coming with transparency when it comes to duce penalties for debts that exceed $2,500. its own actions and proposals. In fact, the This threshold is justified in the explanatory government has directly undermined not memorandum on the basis that it reflects the only medical practitioners in relation to point at which mistaken claims may become Medicare but the fundamental principles on routine, or reflective of poor administration which Medicare has been built. Under the or decision making. Section 129AEA(1)(d) government’s first version of health reform allows for a higher threshold to be specified last year—or the process that was in place by regulation. As Medicare rebates grow, it is for the review of the review to find out the important that the threshold is reviewed so draft plan which would eventually be put to that it reflects as accurately as possible the COAG—GP surgeries would have lost $58 point where incorrect claims are more than million in Medicare practice incentive pay- incidental or the result of isolated adminis- ments for after-hours patient care. The then trative mistakes. The penalty is to be 20 per president of the college of GPs, Chris cent of the debt. Mitchell, was reported on 15 July 2010 as saying that removal of the Medicare incen- The financial penalties in this bill are in- tive payment will have ‘enormous implica- tended to encourage early and voluntary tions for the role of the GP’ and ‘has the po- identification and repayment of incorrect tential to have an impact on the viability of claims. Where a person voluntarily contacts general practice to deliver the services out-

CHAMBER 1248 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 side normal opening hours’. In fact, Dr agement make the $70.3 million savings Mitchell went further and said it would from this measure look like a rounding error. ‘jeopardise the fragile availability of after- Whilst the government today is trying to hours services in some areas and potentially place scrutiny on doctors and those on the increase the burden on ambulance call-outs front line, it is the Gillard government and and emergency department presentations’. Minister Roxon who are more deserving of In her press conference on 22 February intense scrutiny for their array of policy fail- 2011, the Prime Minister stated that Medi- ures and unimaginable waste. care Locals will become fund-holding or- A number of amendments have been ganisations. The government has refused to adopted, addressing key concerns with the specify the services for which Medicare Lo- original version of this bill. The coalition cals will have fund-holding responsibility. will not oppose the bill before us today but This is a significant departure from the exist- we will continue to scrutinise its implemen- ing model of fee-for-service and patient tation and the government’s actions in rela- choice and creates enormous uncertainty for tion to Medicare which undermine patient doctors and patients. The Prime Minister also privacy and choice and give rise to waste. implied that Medicare Locals will provide The coalition will continue to pursue the un- coordinated care and address the issue of resolved policy issue, which I mentioned patients having to provide records to differ- earlier in my speech, which effectively ent health-care professionals. It is unclear makes it impossible for the Senate to pass from this comment whether Medicare Locals judgment on decisions by the government to will have access to patient records, have cop- cut patient rebates through the Medicare ies of patient records or be able to compel Benefits Schedule without creating the unsat- doctors to provide patient records. Given that isfactory consequence of removing those these so-called legal entities will be staffed rebates altogether. by teams of bureaucrats, it does again give We ought to create a circumstance where rise to concerns about the use of clinical in- the Senate has the capacity to disagree with formation without consent by people other the government’s proposed cuts to Medicare than medical practitioners. rebates and where any such disagreement, The intent of this bill today is to ensure expressed through a successful disallowance that taxpayers’ funds are used appropriately. motion, would revive the MBS rebates that This is from a minister who allocated $29.5 were in place before that disallowance took million to advertising health reform propos- effect. With those few words—I am quite als that were never delivered. This is from a surprised that this legislation eventually minister who has spent hundreds of millions made it into the noncontroversial slot in this of dollars on superclinics that are still not chamber—I confirm that the coalition will operational and in many cases will erode the not be opposing this bill. viability of existing services. This is from a Senator SIEWERT (Western Australia) government that has wasted billions of dol- (1.19 pm)—The Greens support the need to lars putting pink batts into people’s roofs and ensure the integrity of the public revenue taking them out again. This is from a gov- expended on Medicare services. Expenditure ernment that will spend over $20 billion in on the Medicare scheme was over $14 billion interest payments on its debt over the next in 2008-09 and it has grown by more than a four years alone. Incredibly, this govern- billion dollars per annum over the last two ment’s unprecedented waste and misman-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1249 years. We believe that compliance audits are cific concerns about the claims is in fact a necessary checks to confirm that a medical reasonable and responsible way of protecting practitioner was eligible to provide a Medi- the public purse. We agree with the view of care service, that the service was actually Medicare Australia that the consequences of provided and that it met the requirements of not having a penalty system for non-criminal the Medicare item paid in respect of the ser- acts resulting in incorrect claims is that pro- vice. viders can repeatedly make incorrect claims We understand that, at present, many prac- with little or no adverse outcome other than titioners voluntarily cooperate with Medicare possibly having to repay moneys specifically Australia during compliance audits; however, identified as having been incorrectly re- on average, 20 per cent of practitioners either ceived. Similarly, the Greens accept the view do not respond or refuse to cooperate with a of the Department of Health and Ageing, request for documents. When this occurs, which has argued that the key risks to the Medicare Australia does not have the author- integrity of the Medicare scheme need to be ity to require the production of relevant addressed by establishing a simple, cost- documents and cannot confirm that the effective administrative mechanism to deal Medicare payment is correct. The Greens with incorrect Medicare payments, which believe that health reform has to be under- constitute a significant risk to Medicare ex- pinned by a greater understanding of health penditure. needs, and we believe that payments should The debate here is about potentially con- be monitored and measured by their rele- flicting public interest principles. There are vance to patients’ needs, not those of the the interests of Medicare consumers in the provider and the number of services they are maintenance and integrity of the health sys- willing or able to perform. We believe that tem and the public interest in the confidenti- this particular process can fulfil a number of ality of the communications in the doctor- requirements. patient relationship and the medical records In 2007-08, 81,224 providers generated of the patient. The Public Interest Advocacy nearly 280 million MBS services. New Centre has proposed changes that would ap- groups of practitioners, such as allied health propriately balance the public interest in the practitioners, are also now able to provide integrity of Medicare and the public interest Medicare-eligible services. It does not seem in the maintenance of public confidentiality unreasonable for the taxpayer to want to be and privacy of health records. sure that the services being paid for are au- This issue took a considerable amount of dited. In 1996-97, the Australian National time at the hearings of the committee inquiry Audit Office found that non-compliant MBS looking into the Health Insurance Amend- payments equated to around 1.3 to 2.3 per ment (Compliance) Bill 2010—that is, con- cent of expenditure. According to the Na- fidentiality and, obviously, the need to access tional Audit Office, this suggests that current records to verify them. I note that, during the levels of annual non-compliant payments Senate inquiry, the Consumer Health Forum could be at least $170 million to $300 mil- of Australia stated that they do not believe lion per annum—a not insignificant amount that privacy would be compromised under of money. the changes outlined in the bill. They say that The Greens believe that requiring provid- consumers are fully aware of the need to en- ers to verify their claims when there are spe- sure a sustainable health system that has checks and balances in place. It is entirely in

CHAMBER 1250 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 the public interest for the MBS compliance quiry. It has been suggested to us that there procedures to be implemented. As outlined could be a two-stage process in looking at previously, the Greens understand that Medi- electronic records. Firstly access to informa- care Australia is working on guidelines to tion that is not clinical records could be look at the sensitivities around privacy, and looked at and then subsequent decisions we welcome this. We are pleased to see that could be made if there needed to be further the government has included a provision that detail. medical advisers should have oversight of all During the inquiry the issues were also audits. raised of who did and did not get access to This issue is further complicated by the records, how easy it was to access electronic health services amendment bill which has records and whether the process of accessing been introduced into the parliament and electronic records would be made easier. The which also deals with the issue of electronic point was made that some doctors still do not records and how Medicare can access patient have electronic record and data collection. It records for clinical and non-clinical informa- would make the process a lot easier if all tion. Since that bill was first introduced into doctors had electronic data collection and if the parliament things have been moving on, that was in fact mandatory; however, the and I have been trying to look at this bill in government has not gone that far. We have light of the other bill that we will be dealing decided we will not move subsequent with in the not-too-distant future, which is amendments to this bill, because the gov- currently the subject of a committee inquiry. ernment has picked up on some of the rec- Having said that, having another bill that ommendations. makes further changes makes the bill we are The Greens will continue to monitor the currently debating a little bit more compli- way the government puts in place measures cated for us. Obviously we need to go back to protect patients’ privacy. Unfortunately, to the other bill and ensure that it is consis- we have already seen some examples where tent with this bill. patient records have been inappropriately We believe that these records need to be accessed. We want to ensure that does not carefully handled. While we accept what the happen. We appreciate that we need to find a Consumers Health Forum says around con- balance and we are looking at the next bill to sumers knowing and appreciating the fact ensure that that balance is maintained. We that there needs to be some sort of compli- appreciate the fact that the government is ance process, I have had phone calls from taking on board, as is Medicare Australia, the consumers and I know that they are con- issues around privacy and trying to find that cerned about the release of clinical records. balance. We will monitor that closely. We Therefore, while consumers are supportive will support this bill, but we will continue to of the auditing process, we also need to make observe and monitor implementation closely. sure that we do have measures in place to Senator LUNDY (Australian Capital Ter- protect people’s privacy. The Greens are ritory—Parliamentary Secretary for Immi- pleased to see that the government picked up gration and Multicultural Affairs and Parlia- on a number of the amendments suggested mentary Secretary to the Prime Minister) by the Senate inquiry and that they have (1.28 pm)—I would like to thank senators been incorporated into the bill, which we for their contributions to the debate on the think goes some way to addressing the con- Health Insurance Amendment (Compliance) cerns that were raised during the Senate in-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1251

Bill 2010. Transparency and accountability marks a further important opportunity for are at the core of this government’s health greater transparency to ensure taxpayers’ reforms—that is, transparency about how we money is spent appropriately on the health- spend taxpayers’ dollars and how we account care services they expect. I acknowledge the for all healthcare services, whether delivered support that this bill is attracting. in public hospitals or in the community. This Question agreed to. bill calls for transparency and accountability Bill read a second time. from healthcare practitioners who provide Medicare services. Third Reading This bill is a reintroduction of a largely Bill passed through its remaining stages identical bill introduced in the 42nd Parlia- without amendment or debate. ment. This version incorporates parliamen- SEX AND AGE DISCRIMINATION tary amendments which were agreed to or LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL moved by the government during the parlia- 2010 mentary debate on the bill. On average, 20 Second Reading per cent of practitioners contacted by Medi- Debate resumed from 28 October, on mo- care Australia do not respond to, or refuse to tion by Senator Lundy: cooperate with, a request to substantiate a Medicare benefit paid for a service. When That this bill be now read a second time. this occurs, Medicare Australia does not have Senator CAROL BROWN (Tasmania) any authority to require a practitioner to (1.31 pm)—I rise to make my contribution comply with the request. This means there is on the Sex and Age Discrimination Legisla- no way to confirm that the Medicare benefit tion Amendment Bill 2010. The bill we are is correct. This means there is no way to con- debating today amends the Sex Discrimina- firm that public money is being spent appro- tion Act 1984 to strengthen protections priately. against sexual harassment, establish breast- There has been significant debate and feeding as a separate ground of discrimina- stakeholder consultation on this bill and a tion and extend protections against discrimi- full inquiry by the Senate Community Affairs nation in work on the ground of family re- Legislation Committee. Importantly, amend- sponsibilities. ments to this current bill acknowledge the As the explanatory memorandum sets out, need for Medicare to take advice from Medi- the Sex Discrimination Act, which has been care professionals from within the organisa- in place for over 25 years, has been an im- tion and to use the profession to assist doc- portant tool in addressing discrimination and tors in responding to an audit. This bill does changing attitudes about the participation of not introduce any record-keeping require- women and men in a range of areas of public ments. It will be up to the person who re- life. The Sex Discrimination Act, like other ceives the notice to decide what documents antidiscrimination laws, has been an impor- they have available to substantiate the ser- tant mechanism in changing community per- vice. This bill is not retrospective and will ceptions and providing protection for men apply only to Medicare services provided and women so they can fully participate in after the commencement of this bill. the social, economic and public life of Aus- There is no reason why the parliament tralian society. should not consider the legislation, which

CHAMBER 1252 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

This bill broadens the constitutional basis when determining working arrangements of the Sex Discrimination Act to provide after the birth of a child. equal protection for women and men from This amending legislation is particularly sex discrimination. As I begin my contribu- important as it comes on the back of our his- tion today I, firstly, welcome the support of toric paid parental leave scheme, which, for those opposite for this important piece of the first time, will provide parents with gov- legislation. To have their support for this ernment funded paid parental leave. Also for important piece of legislation is something the first time, the bill will also make breast- that all Australians will be happy to hear. feeding a separate ground of discrimination, Indeed, all Australians will be happy that which I am pleased has finally been imple- both sides of politics are sending a message mented. It means that women can undertake that discrimination will not be tolerated in a their child-rearing duties without fear of re- modern Australian society. This bill forms prisal or discrimination. The changes to the part of the Gillard Labor government’s act will also ensure that men and women commitment to support working families by receive equal protection from sex discrimina- placing adequate protections in the work- tion in the workplace, at school and in the place. As the Attorney-General, the Hon. wider community. Robert McClelland, pointed out: It will also strengthen the act to provide We hope that this does lead to a cultural change to greater protection for men and women from recognise the idea of a fair go for all regardless of sexual harassment. The Minister for Em- sex, age or family responsibilities or any other circumstances. ployment Participation and Childcare and the Minister for the Status of Women, the Hon. The bill will enhance protections against dis- Kate Ellis MP, has stated that the bill: crimination by broadening the prohibition on discrimination on the grounds of family re- … recognises that sexual harassment does take place far too often within Australian workplaces sponsibilities beyond termination of em- but that there are also changing forms of harass- ployment. Protections will be expanded to ment with the advent of new technologies. now include other forms of direct and indi- This bill will make amendments to extend rect discrimination, and discrimination in all protection against sexual harassment to stu- areas of work. dents, regardless of their age. It will remove It will also give the Australian Human the requirement that the person responsible Rights Commission the power, with the for the harassment must be at the same edu- leave of the court, to intervene in proceed- cational institute as the victim of the harass- ings relating to discrimination on the ment. It will protect works from sexual har- grounds of family responsibilities at a time assment by customers, clients and other per- when it is becoming more common for men sons with whom they come into contact in to seek special arrangements with respect to connection with their work. The bill will also their jobs to play a more active role in child- amend the test for sexual harassment so that rearing arrangements. This bill gives both harassment occurs if a reasonable person men and women the opportunity to play an would anticipate the possibility that the per- active role in raising children, without the son harassed would be offended, humiliated fear of reprisal or discrimination from their or intimidated. employer. This amendment to the act will The bill also includes amendments to es- help to break down the barriers and provide tablish for the first time at a federal level the parents with an increased number of options

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1253 position of a stand-alone Age Discrimination In conclusion, I look forward to working Commissioner. This position will be located as part of the Labor government to provide within the Australian Human Rights Com- for people an increased protection against mission. Our moves to establish a dedicated discrimination. The bill implements impor- Age Discrimination Commissioner is recog- tant reforms in the areas of age and sex dis- nition of the changing demographics in Aus- crimination. It will help deliver conditions to tralian society as well as of the need to pro- create a more equitable and productive work- vide protection to our senior Australians. force, which is in the best interests of all This bill is another step in providing a fair Australians. These are reforms which high- and equitable Australia, no matter what a light the government’s strong commitment to person’s age or sexual orientation may be. fostering an inclusive Australia. The bill will Discrimination Commissioner will also ensure that our antidiscrimination laws have the responsibility of advocating on be- are the most appropriate, by bringing them half of all Australians who face age discrimi- into the 21st century. The government is se- nation no matter what their age is, whether rious about discrimination. That is why we they are young or old. This bill builds upon are making these changes to the Sex Dis- the Labor government’s Same-Sex Relation- crimination Act as well as continuing our ships (Equal Treatment in Commonwealth work on Australia’s human rights frame- Laws—General Law Reform) Act 2008, work. I commend the bill to the chamber. which made changes to the Commonwealth Senator BARNETT (Tasmania) (1.39 law to ensure that people were not discrimi- pm)—I stand today to speak to the Sex and nated against because of their sexuality. The Age Discrimination Legislation Amendment changes were implemented and allowed Bill 2010. As the Deputy Chair of the Senate same-sex couples the same access as hetero- Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation sexual couples to Commonwealth superan- Committee, I had the privilege of reviewing nuation, child support, the PBS safety net this bill. It was referred to our committee on and the Medicare safety net, as well as to 13 September last year and we were due to many other areas of common law. report on 8 February 2011. That was ex- While we have undertaken these impor- tended to 22 March 2011, I think for good tant reforms for same-sex couples as part of reasons. As has been noted, the aims and Commonwealth law and strengthened the objectives set out in the Attorney-General’s Sex Discrimination Act as part of the legisla- second reading speech are certainly sup- tion we are debating here today, we recog- ported in principle—to strengthen the protec- nise that there is still more work to be done. tions against sex discrimination and sexual As a part of their inquiry into the bill, the harassment, for both women and men, and to Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Leg- introduce a new dedicated position of Age islation Committee made a number of rec- Discrimination Commissioner. Of course, ommendations which have implications for this is something that we have supported for other areas of federal antidiscrimination law. some time on the coalition side. I will be The Attorney-General has made it clear that speaking more about that shortly, including the government will address these recom- about the costs and the impact on the Com- mendations as part of the work on Australia’s monwealth. human rights framework to streamline fed- The Senate committee had to review the eral antidiscrimination legislation into a sin- report that was undertaken by the committee gle consolidated, comprehensive act. in 2008—I think it was 26 June 2008. We

CHAMBER 1254 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 had been referred an inquiry into the effec- Privacy Foundation—which highlighted the tiveness of the Sex Discrimination Act in importance of protecting the interests of eliminating discrimination and promoting children and ensuring safety and security gender equality at that time. We gave due while online. consideration—very thoughtful considera- The dissenting Liberal senators noted in tion—to that bill. I remember that at hearings their report that the bill would also imple- in Canberra and in Melbourne we had a ment other recommendations— range of witnesses, including from the busi- recommendations 13 and 18—to expand the ness community, the education sector, the scope of the Sex Discrimination Act, to church community, civil rights organisations broaden the definition of sexual harassment; and across the board. It was a very compre- the bill would expand the powers of the Aus- hensive inquiry. You might remember it well, tralian Human Rights Commission; and it Madam Acting Deputy President Fisher. We would provide an exemption to preserve the sat next to each other at the Melbourne hear- operation of state and territory laws regard- ings and you made some very pertinent ob- ing official records of a person’s sex. I will servations which I well remember and no come to that in a moment. doubt others will as well. The Liberal senators made it very clear This report and this bill are on the back of that we do not support those provisions of the bill that was passed subsequent to that the bill which would either expand the scope inquiry, but not without a dissenting report of the Sex Discrimination Act or broaden the from the coalition. Yes, we did support some definition of sexual harassment unduly. We aspects of that bill, but we opposed vehe- did not see adequate evidence presented at mently some other aspects of it. I want to say the inquiry of any systemic or widespread on the record that the Liberal senators, in our discrimination on the grounds of family re- report, took a consistent approach. Firstly, sponsibilities, or circumstances of particular we supported the provisions of the bill which sexual harassment, which are not currently would make technical amendments to the adequately addressed by existing legislation. Sex Discrimination Act to implement some When I talk about ‘existing legislation’, I recommendations of that Senate report. I mean federal, state or territory legislation, specifically refer to three of those recom- because we cannot just look at this in a mendations. The first was to provide equal prism, in and of itself, by itself; we must see coverage to both men and women. The sec- it as a whole. That is why I made those ob- ond was to establish breastfeeding as a sepa- servations. rate ground of discrimination. The third was The coalition senators on the committee to protect students from sexual harassment, have been consistent on this. We do not al- regardless of their age and whether they are ways get our own way, but these committee harassed by someone from their own or an- inquiries are very valid, they make a lot of other educational institution. In that regard I sense, and we are very pleased to be part of refer to the excellent hearing that the Joint them. In many cases in our committee we Standing Committee on Cyber-Safety held come up with unanimous recommendations, this morning in the parliament—where we and they have been adopted by this govern- had Facebook, ninemsn, Microsoft and Ya- ment, for which we are thankful. But we did hoo!7 as witnesses, together with Dr Clarke, present a dissenting report in 2008. It is on who was appearing in a personal capacity, although he has been chair of the Australian

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1255 the public record. It is available on the Sen- views, and we would like to see it. Maybe ate website. We noted: others in this place and in the coalition are There is little to no legislative gap in coverage aware of it, but, based on the evidence put to with respect to sex discrimination and sexual the committee, we have not been fully con- harassment. vinced of that fact. In fact: Scott Barklamb, from the Australian … there are overlapping … obligations, under Chamber of Commerce and Industry, pre- federal, state and territory anti-discrimination sented at our 2008 inquiry. He presented legislation … very forcefully and cogently on behalf of the That is why we need to look at this very chamber his views that the changes proposed carefully, make sure that we get our facts at the time, in 2008, would put up costs for right and prepare and draft legislation that business, whether they be large or small. We will actually work. It has to be consistent and all know that it is a lot easier for the big not necessarily mirror states and territories boys. It is a lot easier for big business to deal but ensure that there is not a duplication, an with these changes, whether they are to do overburdening, of regulation for those indi- with sex discrimination or age discrimination viduals affected and indeed the businesses or other changes in the workplace. It is hard affected. for microbusiness and small business in par- I will come shortly to the effect on busi- ticular. ness, including small business. We are a There are two million-odd small busi- party of supporters of small business in par- nesses in Australia. That is fantastic. They ticular and microbusiness. About 82 per cent need all the support they can get. I know that of small business, the last time I looked, is in Tasmania, my own state, there are over actually microbusiness. What impact will 30,000 small businesses, and they are the this have on microbusiness? What impact lifeblood of their communities. They need will this have on small business? I will come support and encouragement. If we send mes- to that in a moment. sages to them through this legislation or We have expressed concern that the com- other legislation that we do not really care bined effect of the recommendations relating about their interests—and this applies to sexual harassment and family responsibili- whether or not they appeared before a Senate ties would be to impose a significant compli- committee. Guess what? They are busy oper- ance cost on employers and, in our view, it ating their businesses. We cannot expect would encourage and facilitate unfounded them to drop everything and fly to Canberra, claims. That is a concern we have. We have Sydney, Melbourne or somewhere—the not as yet been told that there is evidence to ‘golden triangle’—whether from a regional say that this will not happen. We would like area of Tasmania or from some other re- to be convinced that it will not happen, but gional area of Australia, to present their we are very fearful, in the absence of any views. Come on, let’s give them a break. clear basis for these changes that are set out Nevertheless, as legislators and policymak- in this legislation, or evidence of systemic ers, we must take their views into account. failure of the current legislative regime, We did that in 2008, and we said the costs about any implementation of those recom- were burdensome in terms of the rules, the mendations. Maybe others have a different regulations, that apply to those businesses. view. Perhaps there is evidence of different They want a fair go for their employees—of course they do, whether they are proprietors

CHAMBER 1256 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 of small businesses, large ones or microbusi- erating? I say good on them. I say congratu- nesses—and that is what we coalition sena- lations and well done. We live in a free coun- tors are trying to give them. try, a free society, and people are entitled to As members of the coalition, we realise express their views in different ways and act that they are the lifeblood of our communi- in different ways. Freedom of association is ties, particularly in the rural and regional so important. These are things we want to parts of Australia. When we come into this protect in every way, shape and form. place, it is often said that we are acting in In this inquiry we did not get adequate and of ourselves, in our own world, in our representation and evidence from the educa- own glass chambers. But we want to do what tional groups and, likewise, from the various is in their best interests, not just because it is church groups. Many of them appeared in easy for us as legislators to write up this leg- 2008. We know what they said and we know islation and say, ‘Yes, that would be the easy what their thoughts were about these particu- way to go.’ No, sometimes it is hard. Some- lar concerns. So I want to make sure—and I times the legislation should be a little more have asked the minister to put on the re- complex, and a little bit more thought should cord—that they are totally convinced that the perhaps be given to the interests of small interests of the education institutions and the business and microbusiness, because they are interests of the church groups have been the families, they are the people, who have adequately considered. Let’s face it: there their necks on the line. They mortgage their will be significant costs, red tape and regula- homes and they mortgage their businesses to tion that will flow through. Do not just think invest, and they need a fair go all round. That this is a simple process. point was well made back in 2008 and, We as Liberal senators also expressed a frankly, we have not had adequate represen- view in our report that we did not think there tation from the business community to the was merit in expanding the powers of the committee inquiry on this very legislation. If Australian Human Rights Commission. We we are just going to bulldoze full steam are of the view that the Australian Human ahead, I would like to know and be con- Rights Commission and the Sex Discrimina- vinced by the minister that their interests tion Commissioner already had adequate and have been properly and fully recognised and comprehensive powers and resources to fulfil acknowledged. I would like to have it put on their legislative responsibilities. Of course, the record by the minister concerned that they were given further increased funding in those interests have been protected. the last budget. The view that they are a law Likewise, I want to say the same about the unto themselves has certainly been well education sector. We have had lots of con- known and well expressed, both in this place cerns expressed by not just public schools and elsewhere. That view has certainly been but Christian schools about whether they will put by Liberal senators in this report. be impacted in terms of the employment I referred to births, deaths and marriages practices that they undertake, occupational before and this issue of registration and the health and safety practices or any other in- costs relating to it. We support responsibility dustrial relations concerns that they have. for legislation relating to the regulation of How will it impact them? Will there be an births, deaths and marriages, including the education and awareness program for those registration of sex changes, remaining with in the education sector, particularly Christian the states and territories. Why should the schools, which have a particular way of op-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1257

Commonwealth suddenly take over this area are the points that we have made as coalition that has been consistently the basis of action senators on this committee, and we are seek- for the states and territories? So we support ing answers from the minister as soon as the amendment to the Sex Discrimination possible to the questions that have been Act which would preserve the operation of raised by me and the other Liberal senators state and territory laws regarding official on this committee. We have made some key records of a person’s sex. That should be points in this report and we have had delib- noted. erations as a committee. We have made it very clear in our report The chair’s draft report makes it clear that that the explanatory memorandum to the bill the bill should be supported, subject to two states that the establishment of an age dis- recommendations, but we do not believe that crimination commissioner would cost some is adequate. The fact is that the interests of $1 million each year from 2011-12. That is the business community should be properly well noted. We accept that. That is the cost of protected, the interests of the educational the proposed position to be established. But sector should be properly protected and the we strongly encourage the Labor government interests of the church community should be to provide full disclosure of the cost to busi- properly protected. These are key stake- ness, aged-care organisations and others as- holders in our community. For the govern- sociated with the establishment of this posi- ment just to proceed willy-nilly, without tion. That is our view. We want the govern- adequate consideration of their views, would ment to make that clear, and I wonder if the be a major mistake. So we would like to minister could, perhaps in response to my know from the minister whether he has care- observations, also provide full disclosure. fully considered the views of the coalition Aged-care institutions are vitally important. senators and what they have set out in this They provide a fantastic service all around report. Businesses and small businesses in this country. They need support. They are communities across this country are vitally under pressure. It has been said that they are important and we want to make sure that in crisis. I know Senator Polley on the other their interests are fully and properly pro- side has referred to the funding constraints in tected. As I say, we in the coalition know that the aged-care sector, not just in my state but they are the backbone of our rural and re- elsewhere, and she is right. They need sup- gional communities in particular. In the sub- port and encouragement in every way, shape urbs and the cities across the country, small and form. So I would like the minister to businesses are vital. Their interests should be confirm the consequences and the flow-on properly and fully protected. To have one effects of this appointment for those organi- piece of legislation simply go through be- sations. Full disclosure is required and we cause it is in our best interests or because it would like the minister to come clean on is an easy thing to do, because the depart- that. We have made our recommendations in ment has come up with an easy way to go the report. They are at pages 45, 46 and 47. about it, is not a good thing. Sometimes we It has been a very worthwhile inquiry. As I have to look harder and deeper, to dig deep say, the 2008 inquiry was far more compre- and make sure that we get the best results hensive than the current one. Many, many possible and that the legislation is in the in- witnesses and key sectors were not repre- terests of the public, not just in the interests sented on the witness panel, and this is an of the Public Service. area of specific concern that we have. These Debate interrupted.

CHAMBER 1258 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS lier this month. The change is the appoint- Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Aus- ment of the Hon. Warren Snowdon MP as tralia—Leader of the Government in the Minister Assisting the Prime Minister on the Senate) (2.00 pm)—I table for the informa- Centenary of ANZAC. I seek leave to have tion of the Senate a revised Ministry list re- the document incorporated into Hansard. flecting a change to the Ministry made ear- Leave granted.

The document read as follows— SECOND GILLARD MINISTRY 3 March 2011 Title Minister Other Chamber Prime Minister The Hon Julia Gillard MP Senator the Hon Chris Evans Minister for Regional Australia, Regional Devel- The Hon Simon Crean MP Senator the Hon Nick opment and Local Government Sherry Minister for the Arts The Hon Simon Crean MP Senator the Hon Mark Arbib Minister for Social Inclusion The Hon Tanya Plibersek MP Senator the Hon Mark Arbib Minister for Privacy and Freedom of Information The Hon Brendan O’Connor Senator the Hon Joe MP Ludwig Minister for Sport Senator the Hon Mark Arbib The Hon Kate Ellis MP Special Minister of State for the Public Service and The Hon Gary Gray AO MP Senator the Hon Penny Integrity Wong Minister Assisting the Prime Minister on the The Hon. Warren Snowdon MP Centenary of ANZAC Cabinet Secretary The Hon Mark Dreyfus QC MP Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister Senator the Hon Kate Lundy Treasurer (Deputy Prime Minister) The Hon Wayne Swan MP Senator the Hon Penny Wong Assistant Treasurer The Hon Bill Shorten MP Senator the Hon Nick Sherry Minister for Financial Services and Superannuation The Hon Bill Shorten MP Senator the Hon Nick Sherry Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasurer The Hon David Bradbury MP Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Jobs and Senator the Hon Chris Evans The Hon Simon Crean MP Workplace Relations (Jobs and Workplace (Leader of the Government in the Senate) Relations) The Hon Peter Garrett AM MP (Tertiary Education and Skills) Minister for School Education, Early Childhood The Hon Peter Garrett AM MP Senator the Hon Chris and Youth Evans Minister for Employment Participation and Child- The Hon Kate Ellis MP Senator the Hon Chris care Evans Minister for Indigenous Employment and Economic Senator the Hon Mark Arbib The Hon Jenny Macklin Development MP Parliamentary Secretary for School Education and Senator the Hon Jacinta Workplace Relations Collins

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1259

Title Minister Other Chamber Minister for Broadband, Communications and Senator the Hon Stephen The Hon Anthony the Digital Economy Conroy Albanese MP (Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Minister Assisting the Prime Minister on Digital Productivity Minister for Foreign Affairs The Hon Kevin Rudd MP Senator the Hon Stephen Conroy Minister for Trade The Hon Dr Craig Emerson Senator the Hon Stephen MP Conroy Parliamentary Secretary for Trade The Hon Justine Elliot MP Parliamentary Secretary for Pacific Island Affairs The Hon Richard Marles MP Minister for Defence The Hon Stephen Smith MP Senator the Hon Chris (Deputy Leader of the House) Evans Minister for Veterans’ Affairs The Hon Warren Snowdon MP Senator the Hon Chris Evans Minister for Defence Science and Personnel The Hon Warren Snowdon MP Senator the Hon Chris Evans Minister for Defence Materiel The Hon Jason Clare MP Senator the Hon Chris Evans Parliamentary Secretary for Defence Senator the Hon David Feeney Minister for Immigration and Citizenship The Hon Chris Bowen MP Senator the Hon Kim Carr Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration and Multi- Senator the Hon Kate Lundy cultural Affairs Minister for Infrastructure and Transport The Hon Anthony Albanese Senator the Hon Kim Carr (Leader of the House) MP Parliamentary Secretary for Infrastructure and The Hon Catherine King MP Transport Minister for Health and Ageing The Hon Nicola Roxon MP Senator the Hon Joe Ludwig Minister for Indigenous Health The Hon Warren Snowdon MP Senator the Hon Joe Ludwig Minister for Mental Health and Ageing The Hon Mark Butler MP Senator the Hon Joe Ludwig Parliamentary Secretary for Health and Ageing The Hon Catherine King MP Minister for Families, Housing, Community Ser- The Hon Jenny Macklin MP Senator the Hon Mark vices and Indigenous Affairs Arbib Minister for the Status of Women The Hon Kate Ellis MP Senator the Hon Penny Wong Minister for Social Housing and Homelessness Senator the Hon Mark Arbib The Hon Jenny Macklin MP Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities and Carers Senator the Hon Jan McLucas Parliamentary Secretary for Community Services The Hon Julie Collins MP Minister for Sustainability, Environment, Water, The Hon Tony Burke MP Senator the Hon Stephen Population and Communities Conroy Parliamentary Secretary for Sustainability and Ur- Senator the Hon Don Farrell ban Water Minister for Finance and Deregulation Senator the Hon Penny Wong The Hon Wayne Swan MP Special Minister of State The Hon Gary Gray AO MP Senator the Hon Penny Wong Minister Assisting on Deregulation and Public Sec- Senator the Hon Nick Sherry tor Superannuation Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Senator the Hon Kim Carr The Hon Peter Garrett AM Research MP

CHAMBER 1260 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Title Minister Other Chamber Minister for Small Business Senator the Hon Nick Sherry The Hon Bill Shorten MP Attorney-General The Hon Robert McClelland Senator the Hon Joe (Vice President of the Executive Council) MP Ludwig Minister Assisting the Attorney-General on Queen- Senator the Hon. Joe Ludwig sland Floods Recovery Minister for Home Affairs The Hon Brendan O’Connor Senator the Hon Joe MP Ludwig Minister for Justice The Hon Brendan O’Connor Senator the Hon Joe MP Ludwig Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry Senator the Hon Joe Ludwig The Hon Tony Burke MP (Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Parliamentary Secretary for Agriculture, Fisheries The Hon Dr Mike Kelly AM and Forestry MP Minister for Resources and Energy The Hon Martin Ferguson AM Senator the Hon Nick MP Sherry Minister for Tourism The Hon Martin Ferguson AM Senator the Hon Nick MP Sherry Minister Assisting the Minister for Tourism Senator the Hon Nick Sherry Minister for Climate Change and Energy Effi- The Hon Greg Combet AM Senator the Hon Penny ciency MP Wong Parliamentary Secretary for Climate Change and The Hon Mark Dreyfus QC MP Energy Efficiency Minister for Human Services The Hon Tanya Plibersek MP Senator the Hon Mark Arbib

Each box represents a portfolio. Cabinet Ministers are shown in bold type. As a general rule, there is one department in each portfolio. However, there is a Department of Veterans’ Affairs in the Defence portfolio and a Department of Regional Australia, Regional Development and Local Government in the Prime Minister’s portfolio. The title of a department does not necessarily reflect the title of a minister in all cases. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE I’m not in any way resiling from one word in that Australian Greens statement—not one word. Senator ABETZ (2.00 pm)—Thank you, Does the minister agree with the Prime Min- Mr President. It is good to see the govern- ister and would the minister care to offer any ment catching up to the opposition. My ques- examples of where the Greens have chiselled tion is to Senator Evans, the Minister repre- political advantage in the Labor-Greens alli- ance? senting the Prime Minister. I refer the minis- ter to remarks made by the Prime Minister, Senator CHRIS EVANS—Mr President, Ms Gillard, when she said: I think those listening to the broadcast would Bob Brown— be a bit surprised that at a time of the fight- ing in Libya, the earthquake in Japan, the and I ask this question in his absence— earthquake in Christchurch and the many is pretty much the most calculating politician in serious economic and social issues confront- Canberra. He’s not an archangel of moral force. ing Australia the Leader of the Opposition in He’s a bloke who wakes up every day and says the Senate chooses to ask a question about ‘how can I chisel a bit of political advantage to- day?’ what the Prime Minister said about Bob Brown. Talk about an opposition that has lost and to the Prime Minister’s further statement its way! This is not what is concerning the on the weekend: Australian public, I can assure Senator Abetz

CHAMBER 1261 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 of that. It really does indicate just how out of Greens as a political party in this country touch the opposition are. But I might say that seeks to maximise its support in the that, while ‘calculating’ is sometimes used as same way that the Liberal Party and the coa- a term of derision against individuals more lition more generally do and that the Labor generally, ‘calculating’ for a politician is Party is doing. I have never accepted the largely regarded as a compliment, I suspect, mantra from the Greens that somehow they by many because it indicates— are different or special; I have made that Senator Ian Macdonald—Mr President, I clear on numerous occasions. The fact that raise a point of order on relevance. We have Senator Brown is a very experienced and now had the minister speaking for over a effective politician is, I think, widely recog- minute, for more than half of his time, and nised. But I do not think, and I have never all he has done is lecture the questioner on thought, that they operate in a way that is the standard of the question. He has not even any different to any other political party attempted to answer the question. Mr Presi- seeking to maximise their advantage. I am dent, it makes a mockery of question time if not sure—(Time expired) you are going to let ministers give a com- Senator ABETZ—Mr President, I remind mentary on the nature of the question, and the minister that the Prime Minister herself the way the question is framed and asked, actually raised these matters yesterday. I ask without even attempting to address the sub- a supplementary question. I refer the minister stance of the question. to the statement by the Prime Minister in her Senator Ludwig—Mr President, can I say speech to the Don Dunstan Foundation that at the outset that, on taking this point of or- the Greens are an extreme political party. der, what we have is a question which prof- Does the minister agree with the Prime Min- fers, firstly, whether the minister agrees and, ister? If so, why did she form an alliance secondly, whether or not he wants to add any with this extreme party? additional comments to those the opposition Senator CHRIS EVANS—As a party of has made. The question taken by Senator the mainstream, as the government of this Evans was a political question, fair and sim- nation, we certainly regard many of the ple. Senator Evans is answering the question, views of the Greens as extreme and we will which can be described in no other way than argue with them, as we have in the past, as a political question, as best he can. We about those views. But it is perfectly appro- have the ridiculous circumstance where the priate for them to put those views, because opposition have raised a point of order in they go before the people of Australia and relation to what can only be described as a seek election, as we all do, and they get very broad-ranging question to Senator Ev- elected to this place on the basis of how the ans and they are now asking the minister to Australian public perceives them and the be directly relevant to that question, which level of support they have, which is what is Senator Evans is broadly answering. called the democratic process. When they The PRESIDENT—There is no point of come into this parliament they have the right order. Senator Evans, there are 56 seconds to exercise their votes as they see fit, and the remaining for you to answer the question. coalition and the Labor Party work with them to try to gain majority support for Senator CHRIS EVANS—Mr President, propositions in this parliament, as is the ex- this reflects poorly on the opposition. It is pectation of the Australian public. So, yes, I fair to say that the Labor Party regards the do support the Prime Minister’s views and I

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1262 do think that people ought to focus on the big QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE issues confronting Australia rather than on Libya this petty political point-scoring. Senator FORSHAW (2.09 pm)—My Senator ABETZ—Mr President, I ask a question is to Senator Evans, representing further supplementary question. Did the the Prime Minister. Can the minister provide Prime Minister not know that the Greens the senate with an update on international were extreme when just before the election, cooperation to protect the civilians in Libya? given the prospect that they would gain the Senator Joyce interjecting— balance of power in the Senate, she promised that there would be no carbon tax under a Senator CHRIS EVANS—I am surprised government led by her? What excuse can by the tasteless interjection from Senator there be for the Prime Minister now breaking Joyce. I think all senators would agree that her promise of no carbon tax and adopting the action of the United Nations Security the extreme Greens policy? Council in adopting resolution 1973, author- ising the use of force in Libya to protect ci- Senator CHRIS EVANS—I remind the vilians from attack by the regime of Colonel Senate that the Labor government has a con- Gaddafi, is an important one. The council sistent policy on the issue of the threat of adopted the resolution by 10 votes to zero, carbon pollution in this country. For the past with five abstentions. The resolution author- five years we have argued that carbon pollu- ises member states to take all necessary tion has arisen as a result of a contribution by measures to protect civilians and civilian- human activity. We have argued that we need populated areas under threat of attack while a response that allows the economy to move excluding an occupation force. In light of the to a carbon reduced future. We have argued fast-deteriorating situation, the Security for that in this parliament as a government Council established a no-fly zone, which throughout the last term. We had three goes bans all non-humanitarian flights in Libyan at establishing a Carbon Pollution Reduction airspace. The no-fly zone was imposed fol- Scheme. The Liberal Party abandoned the lowing a request from the Arab League. bipartisanship and the leadership on that is- World leaders met in Paris on Saturday and sue prior to the last election, but this gov- agreed to enforce the resolution through ernment will continue to argue for a proper military action. As senators would be aware, response to the threat of carbon pollution and that commenced on Sunday, led by countries an effort to price carbon, transform our in the immediate region and select members economy and meet the huge challenge that of NATO. this increased carbon pollution presents to our economy and to our society. The decisive action is welcomed by the . The Arab League, DISTINGUISHED VISITORS the Security Council, the nations represented The PRESIDENT—Order! I draw to the at the Paris conference and the parties to attention of honourable senators the presence military intervention have all acted in the in the President’s gallery of Ms Nural Izzah interests of Libya’s civil population. The Anwar, Vice President of the People’s Justice decision to use force to support peace is, of Party of the Malaysian Parliament. On behalf course, never easy, and it is not without risk. of all senators I wish you a warm welcome to We know from bitter experience that the de- Australia and, in particular, to the Senate. cision not to act also has consequences and Honourable senators—Hear, hear! can lead, like it did in Rwanda, to the uni-

CHAMBER 1263 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 maginable loss of civilian life. Through its an additional $4 million for vulnerable brutal suppression of dissent, use of military groups in Libya and to help manage the in- force against civilians and threats of further flux of people into Tunisia and Egypt. The bloodshed, the Gaddafi regime has failed its Australian government has pledged $2 mil- own people. The decision of the international lion to the United Nations High Commis- community to take a stand and protect Lib- sioner for Refugees and $2 million to the yan civilians from further attack has Austra- International Organization for Migration. lia’s full support. Australia’s total assistance to the people of Senator FORSHAW—Mr President, I Libya now exceeds $15 million, making us ask a supplementary question. Can the minis- the third largest donor overall behind the ter provide the Senate with an update on the United States and the European Union. So it humanitarian situation in Libya? is clear that Australia is playing its part in the intervention designed to protect the people of Senator CHRIS EVANS—I thank Sena- Libya. We will continue to support action tor Forshaw for his question. Notwithstand- that puts their interests first and attacks the ing the recent international intervention, the Gaddafi regime’s very unacceptable treat- situation for the people of Libya remains ment of its own people. (Time expired) very grim. More than 300,000 people have fled Libya since mid-February, many of them Carbon Pricing across Libya’s borders with Tunisia and Senator JOYCE (2.14 pm)—My ques- Egypt. The United Nations World Food Pro- tion is to the Minister representing the Minis- gramme has boosted its activities in the re- ter for Climate Change and Energy Effi- gion and is providing more than 15,000 hot ciency, Senator Wong. Could the government meals a day in a transit camp along Libya’s please explain the statements by economics border with Tunisia. Australia strongly sup- professor Ross Garnaut in his sixth upgrade ports the request by the United Nations for report that Australian farmers will only be humanitarian agencies to be allowed access exempted from a carbon tax ‘from the begin- to all parts of Libya in order to assist the ci- ning’ and that ‘ahead of its coverage’ the vilian population and alleviate the suffering government will buy carbon emission offsets of those affected. In supporting the United from the farm sector? Does this government Nations resolutions, which also strengthen have another plan, apart from the plan that it arms embargoes against Libya, the Austra- told the Australian people, to actually include lian government is focused on providing the farmers in its carbon tax net? best possible protection to the citizens of Senator WONG—I thank Senator Joyce Libya. for his ongoing interest in this issue. The Senator FORSHAW—I thank the minis- senator is quoting, I think, from one of six ter for that advice and ask a further supple- updates that Professor Garnaut has made to mentary question. Could the minister advise his report, and I would again emphasise that the Senate of what action Australia is taking these are reports which the government has to ease the humanitarian crisis in Libya? sought at the request of members of parlia- Senator CHRIS EVANS—Australia does ment in the Multi-Party Climate Change of course join the international community in Committee. They are intended to inform the demanding that the brutal suppression of the debate on what is an important public policy civilian population by the Gaddafi regime issue. Unlike those opposite, we believe that ceases immediately. Australia has committed climate change is real and that something

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1264 needs to be done about it. Unlike those oppo- The PRESIDENT—Senator Wong, con- site, we are determined to ensure that we tinue and ignore the interjection. I draw to work through the various policy issues asso- the attention of those on my left that interjec- ciated with this very difficult public policy tions are disorderly. problem through the multiparty committee Senator WONG—Thank you. The car- and more generally. bon-farming initiative was an election policy Professor Garnaut’s reports are a contribu- announcement. It will enable landowners to tion to that discussion, a contribution which benefit from the capacity to generate offsets. is important and that goes to a whole range As I said in the answer to the first question, of issues. Coverage is one of them, but also, Professor Garnaut’s views are Professor more recently, we heard discussion about the Garnaut’s views. The government has made means by which assistance to households can it clear what its policy is. In the announce- be delivered. We had discussion of what sort ment that the Prime Minister made in rela- of assistance should be provided to industry tion to the climate change framework, I refer by way of transition. These are all issues that Senator Joyce to the indication in that that Professor Garnaut has expressed a view on. agricultural emission sources would be ex- They are not issues as yet that the govern- cluded from coverage under the carbon price ment has made final decisions on. As Minis- mechanism. So I think that is quite clear. ter Combet has said, we will work through Senator JOYCE—Mr President, I ask a this process dealing with the various policy further supplementary question. I thank the questions that present themselves when you minister for her first supplementary answer look to put a price on carbon. On the carbon- and concur with her promise that she is more farming initiative, that was an election policy likely to play full forward for the Western announcement. Senator Ludwig—(Time ex- Bulldogs than challenge the Prime Minister, pired) who said she was not going to bring in a car- Senator JOYCE—Mr President, I ask a bon tax. If the Australian people cannot trust supplementary question. I thank the minister this government when it says that there will for her initial answer, but it is the election not be a carbon tax, how can Australian policy announcements that we have a big farmers trust this government when it says it query on nowadays. Will the government— will not put a carbon tax on Australian farm- since Professor Garnaut is merely an input— ers? commit to not introducing a carbon tax on Senator WONG—I have made it clear farmers before the next election and promise what the government’s position is. If you that any future proposal to introduce a car- want to talk about inconsistency, Senator, bon tax, if they decide to change their elec- you should have a look at your own side, tion commitments, will be taken to an elec- because I can recall you going to an election tion before its adoption? saying— Senator WONG—Again, the carbon- Senator Abetz—What is the relevance of farming initiative was an election policy an- that? nouncement and we are proceeding with that. Senator WONG—I can understand, The carbon-farming initiative was an elec- Senator Abetz, why you might be sensitive to tion policy announcement and we are— me talking about your inconsistencies. I can Senator Abetz interjecting— recall you going to an election saying that you were going to act on climate change;

CHAMBER 1265 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 you would put a price on carbon through an Cross Japan and Pacific Disaster Appeal on emissions trading scheme. I can recall Mr the advice of the Japanese government. Abbott once saying that he supported an Australia’s consular staff continues to emissions trading scheme. Now he does not work on locating all Australians in Japan at support an emissions trading scheme. Then this time. Our most up-to-date consular sta- he said that climate change was absolute tistics confirm that there have been no re- crap. Even in these last two weeks we heard ports of Australian casualties, that 4,836 him saying that the science is not settled and Australians in Japan have been confirmed as then, 24 hours later, saying the science is safe, including 438 who are in tsunami and settled. Senator, if you want to lecture about quake affected areas, and that 10,772 calls inconsistency you certainly have the creden- have been received in Canberra. While these tials on your side to give that lecture. We statistics are pleasing, we still have five Aus- have been very clear about the need to price tralians unaccounted for at this stage. We carbon. I do not think anybody in this par- must, however, remember in our thoughts the liament who looked at what we did last term many thousands who have lost family, would suggest that we had never been clear friends and loved ones. about that. (Time expired) Senator WORTLEY—Mr President, I Japan Natural Disasters ask a supplementary question. Can the minis- Senator WORTLEY (2.20 pm)—My ter outline to the Senate some of the meas- question is to the Minister representing the ures the Australian government has taken to Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Conroy. assist the Japanese in their efforts to recover Can the minister provide the Senate with an from the devastation? update on Japan following the devastating Senator CONROY—The Australian gov- earthquakes and tsunami? ernment currently has over 230 officials in Senator CONROY—I thank Senator Japan working on the Australian response. Wortley for her question. Firstly, let me put This includes over 130 Australian-based and on record the Gillard government’s and the locally engaged staff providing consular Australian people’s thoughts and best wishes support, including a team of three in Sendai, for the people of Japan as they work through and liaising with Japanese authorities. We and recover from the devastation of the encourage all Australians in the areas af- earthquakes and the tsunami. fected to contact DFAT if they require assis- Secondly, can I say that this tragedy has tance to depart. In addition, the Australian seen a clear demonstration of cross-party government also initially provided a 72- support by members of parliament for the strong urban search and rescue team, though work undertaken by Australia’s consular staff they have now begun their withdrawal and and search and rescue support teams in as- are all due back within the next couple of sisting both Australian and Japanese citizens days. At the request of the Japanese govern- in the affected areas that they have been op- ment, Australia donated the team’s 76-person erating in. Today the Prime Minister an- tented accommodation facility, incorporating nounced that the Australian government will shelters, generators, beds, food stocks and make a $10 million donation to support the water to local authorities while medicines recovery efforts in the wake of the devastat- and medical equipment were given to the ing earthquake and tsunami that struck Ja- local hospital. (Time expired) pan. The donation will be made to the Red

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1266

Senator WORTLEY—Mr President, I been asked, by allowing the minister to ad- ask a further supplementary question. Can dress the question rather than there being the minister advise the Senate how the crisis further interjections. in Japan has impacted our economy? Senator WONG—The Prime Minister Senator CONROY—Understandably, the and the Minister for Climate Change and devastation in Japan is likely to have a short- Energy Efficiency have made clear that term effect on Australia’s exports. It is still every cent raised by the carbon price will go too early to predict the full economic conse- to households, business and tackling climate quences. Australian exports could feel the change, and that households will come first. I pinch in the coming months. As identified by think they are very clear about that. Of the Treasurer recently, there is likely to be a course, as a Labor government, the assis- short-term impact on some of our exports in tance package will always reflect the values coming quarters. Japanese demand for steel- of a Labor government—that is, we will pro- making inputs could fall in the near term vide assistance which is fair, assistance that following the closure of several large steel- will target people who need it most such as making plants and the disruption to Japanese low-income Australians and pensioners. Ob- manufacturing. However, demand for our viously, the detail of this is something that energy products, including LNG and thermal has not yet been determined because we are coal, could increase. We must all remember still in the process of designing what the car- that given the scale of the devastation in Ja- bon price mechanism will look like. There pan economic conditions will remain unpre- are a whole range of questions around indus- dictable for some time. The Gillard govern- try assistance, transitional assistance, house- ment have every confidence that Japan, a hold assistance, as well as, for example, tremendously resilient country, will rise to scope, coverage and the actual price. I know this challenge. that even Senator Birmingham, who was Carbon Pricing once a moderate and used to say that we should act on climate change, is anxious to Senator BIRMINGHAM (2.25 pm)— jump on board with the scare campaign that My question is to the Minister representing those in the Liberal Party, who will do any- the Minister for Climate Change and Energy thing to oppose carbon pricing, are engaged Efficiency, Senator Wong. I refer the minister in. I know that he is trying to demonstrate to the statement regarding carbon tax com- that he is as tough as Cory Bernardi on this pensation made by the minister for regional issue—he might have some trouble— development that ‘we will return all of the moneys raised to people through the tax The PRESIDENT—Order! Question mechanism’. Is this true? Will all the money time is not the time to work out who is mod- raised by the carbon tax be directed to Aus- erate and who is not moderate. I ask both tralian families and households as stated by sides to desist from trying to make that the minister for regional development? judgment at this time and save it for some other time. Senator Wong, continue with Senator Cormann—Just say he got it your answer. You have 29 seconds remain- wrong. ing. Senator WONG—Would you like to an- Senator WONG—I think the answer is swer the question, Senator? clear on that: there are no moderates left be- The PRESIDENT—Order! Question cause they are all backing Mr Abbott and his time will be assisted, once the question has

CHAMBER 1267 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 pretty extreme views. We wonder where they scribing. As yet, the government have not were when Mr Morrison put his contribution made those decisions. (Time expired) in the shadow cabinet. Senator Birmingham, Senator BIRMINGHAM—Mr President, there is a process underway to design this I ask a further supplementary question. Is it reform in consultation with the multiparty not the case that there will be significant im- committee and the Australian community. pact, that many people will be worse off and We are serious about doing that carefully and that at most 50 per cent of the moneys raised we will do that. (Time expired) will be returned to people? Why is minister Senator BIRMINGHAM—Mr President, after minister in this government simply fol- I ask a supplementary question. I refer the lowing the Prime Minister’s example and minister to the statement by her successor as grossly misrepresenting the truth in relation the minister for climate change, the minister to this carbon tax? responsible for this policy area, that he ‘does Senator WONG—I think the question not expect any significant impact on the about gross misrepresentation of the truth overall cost of living of our carbon price’. ought to be turned on the other side. We are Does this statement apply to all Australians going through a process of designing a car- or just some? If only some, how many will bon price, including dealing with the issues face a significant impact and how many will that you are talking about. We have said that be worse off? every cent raised by the carbon price will go Senator WONG—We have not even set a to Australian households and businesses and price. Let us be clear about what Senator towards tackling climate change. Those are Birmingham is trying to do. He is trying to the parameters that we have put in place. do what Mr Abbott does so well, which is to Senator Birmingham is coming in here and create a whole heap of figures and create a saying that there are going to be all these whole heap of facts that oppose everything. people who will be dreadfully worse off on He tells people that all these bad things are the basis of no facts whatsoever. going to happen, and he is not upfront on this Senator Birmingham—They are your point: we have not even set a price as yet ministers. because we are working through the sorts of Senator WONG—No facts whatsoever, policy issues to which I have alluded. So to Senator Birmingham. The reality is that you come into this place— will do and say anything to not take action Senator Ian Macdonald—You were the on climate change. You are intent on running climate change minister for three years; what a scare campaign and everyone knows that. did you do? Senator Brandis—This minister is out of Senator WONG—Senator Macdonald, I control. will take that interjection. We did put all this The PRESIDENT—The shouting from information out prior to the last vote in this my left is undoubtedly out of control. Sena- place and it made absolutely no difference to tor Wong, you have 12 seconds remaining. you because it does not matter how much information is out there, you will still be on Senator WONG—Those on the other the troglodyte side, voting down any re- side do not want the facts in this debate. All form—as you always do, Senator. The reality they want to do is scaremonger rather than is that we will work through these issues and look to do the responsible thing for the na- deal with the policy issues that you are de- tion.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1268

Indigenous Health alcohol usage rates in the Northern Territory Senator SIEWERT (2.32 pm)—My remain the highest in the country and leading question is to the Minister representing the figures in the world? I understand that the Minister for Families, Housing, Community figures slightly increased after 2006 when Services and Indigenous Affairs, Senator major retailers in Alice Springs sought to Arbib. I ask today about alcohol related harm undermine the measures by introducing and and abuse in Alice Springs. Firstly, is it true making available cheaper alcohol—some- that there has in fact been a decrease in the times to the point of $2 cleanskins. Did this incidence of violent crime in Alice Springs have an impact on alcohol related harm in since the introduction of alcohol supply re- Alice Springs, and what action did the gov- duction measures in 2006? Secondly, what ernment take to address the issue of cheaper changes have there been in alcohol related alcohol becoming available in Alice Springs hospital admissions since the introduction of and undermining the measures? (Time ex- those initial alcohol supply reduction meas- pired) ures? Senator ARBIB—There has certainly Senator ARBIB—I thank Senator Siewert been an outbreak of some antisocial behav- for her question on alcohol in Alice Springs. iour in Alice Springs. There have been visi- As this chamber would be aware, the gov- tors from outside Alice Springs community ernment is working extremely hard in terms who have entered. The issue of alcohol is of closing the gap and a great deal of work certainly an issue that the government has has been undertaken in reducing the harm concerns about. We are currently working from alcohol, which is a significant issue with the Northern Territory government and amongst numerous Indigenous communities. today Paul Anderson, the Chief Minister, The government has been working with the issued a statement concerning the steps they Territory government and is leading work on are undertaking, some of the toughest meas- an alcohol management plan as another key ures possible being implemented in terms of component of the Alice Springs transforma- alcohol use in Alice Springs but also the sur- tion plan. New funding is being allocated by rounding areas. At the same time I would the Australian government to strengthen lo- note that the CLP from the Territory are op- cal alcohol support services for Aboriginal posing those measures that are being under- people in key areas of alcohol rehabilitation. taken by Mr Anderson and the Northern Ter- This includes an additional $5.4 million to ritory government. I would urge Mr Abbott, the Central Australian Aboriginal Congress the Leader of the Opposition, if he is com- Safe and Sober support service to help ad- mitted to bipartisanship to back the Chief dress harmful alcohol use. In partnership Minister in what he is undertaking to fight with the Territory government, the Australian the scourge of alcoholism. government is also providing $1.5 million to Senator SIEWERT—Mr President, I ask expand ID card technology to help enforce a further supplementary question. The Alice alcohol restrictions in Alice Springs and Springs community has been calling for elsewhere. In regards to the issues Senator years for a floor price on the price of alcohol Siewert has raised, I will seek further infor- and to further restrict the availability of take- mation. away—in fact, they are suggesting take- Senator SIEWERT—Mr President, I ask away-free days. Will the federal government a supplementary question. Is it not true that back community calls to introduce a floor price on alcohol and implement takeaway-

CHAMBER 1269 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 free days, which have been shown to be very Taxation effective in controlling the consumption of Senator CORMANN (2.38 pm)—My alcohol? question is to the Minister representing the Senator ARBIB—In the letter of the Treasurer, Senator Wong. Why will the gov- Leader of the Opposition, Mr Abbott, today, ernment not let the belated tax summit prop- one thing that he did raise and admit was erly consider all of Labor’s proposed new that, in terms of the NTER, there had been a taxes, including the mining tax and the car- lack of consultation between the then federal bon tax? government and the Territory Indigenous Senator WONG—The Treasurer has an- communities. We accept that and we think it nounced the dates of the tax forum and, as is good that the Leader of the Opposition has agreed— admitted that, because what the government Senator Ian Macdonald—Is it a forum or is doing is working closely with communi- a summit? ties. Minister Macklin has visited Alice Springs on a large number of occasions and Senator WONG—Senator, you can call it the transformation plan is well underway. what you like, and you will. I am very While we are working with the Territory au- pleased that the opposition’s views on taxa- thorities— tion have become focused on a word, but that is entirely a matter for them—obviously pri- The PRESIDENT—Senator Arbib, oritising important issues. The Treasurer has please resume your seat because Senator announced the date of the tax forum, and that Siewert is on her feet. is as agreed with the crossbenchers. It is ob- Senator Siewert—With all due respect to viously going to be an important forum to the minister, I would appreciate it if he discuss a range of taxation issues. Obviously would answer my question, not a question the government have a very big economic that was shouted out by the opposition— reform agenda and, unlike those opposite, we The PRESIDENT—Is this a point of or- are going to continue to work to implement der? the reform rather than simply do what they Senator Siewert—Yes. Will he answer do, which is to oppose everything—some- my question, not the opposition’s question? times loudly, sometimes not so. The PRESIDENT—The minister has 20 The reality is that the government has a seconds remaining to answer the question big economic reform agenda. We have a very that has been asked. I draw the minister’s clear agenda when it comes to the minerals attention to the question. tax, which is about recognising the enormous terms of trade boom that the country is ex- Senator ARBIB—Thank you, Mr Presi- periencing and the importance of ensuring dent. As I did say earlier, there is a new alco- that Australian taxpayers get a reasonable hol management plan in place. We are work- return on that. It means also taking action on ing closely with the Northern Territory gov- climate change, and I do not think that any- ernment, whose responsibility it is to imple- body should doubt this government’s deter- ment and enforce that. We are also working mination to do the right thing when it comes closely with the Northern Territory Police, to pricing carbon. including the added numbers and night pa- trols that they have in place. (Time expired) This will be an important contribution to the long-term tax issues affecting the coun- try. We welcome the support of the Inde-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1270 pendents for this tax forum and we look for- the big Labor Party tax grabs are going to be ward to having a constructive dialogue with imposed and pushed through the parliament the participants in that forum from various before the tax summit gets to meet, how parts of the Australian economy. (Time ex- could anyone describe it as a fair dinkum tax pired) summit? Isn’t this just another talkfest? Senator CORMANN—Mr President, I Senator WONG—When I anticipated the ask a supplementary question. Will the gov- criticism about a talkfest I did not expect to ernment delay any legislation on further La- be vindicated quite so quickly, Senator Cor- bor Party taxes, including, and in particular, mann. That does not usually happen, so I the mining tax and the carbon tax, until after thank you for that. It is a rare moment of the tax summit has reported? speedy vindication in the Senate chamber. Senator Cameron—Look after your min- Senator, the reality is that, so far in this ques- ing mates and they’ll look after you. tion, you have had a go at us about the name, you have had a go at us about actually en- Honourable senators interjecting— gaging in reform before it and then you have The PRESIDENT—When we have si- called it a talkfest. You could at least get lence on both sides, we will proceed. your criticism right, Senator Cormann. We Senator WONG—We now see the sec- do have a reform agenda, which we are very ond limb of the opposition’s tax reform clear about. It is an important reform agenda agenda. The first is: ‘We’re going to argue which reflects the economic challenges for about what this forum is called.’ The second this country in the near term and in the long is: ‘You shouldn’t do anything until someone term, challenges for which you are devoid of else talks about it a bit more.’ Senator, that is a response. You have no response to the eco- not the approach the government is taking. nomic challenges of today, nor of tomorrow. Opposition senators interjecting— You are a party which is locked into your daily rejection of anything positive, your Senator WONG—I could imagine, if I daily rejection of reform and your daily grind could just dare to postulate, what would hap- around—(Time expired) pen if we in fact did that. Senator Cormann would be the first one to say, ‘Oh, this gov- Economy ernment’s not interested in reform; they’re Senator FURNER (2.45 pm)—My ques- just interested in a talkfest.’ Be real, Sena- tion is to the Minister for Small Business and tor—get real, I should say. We are very clear Minister Assisting the Minister for Tourism, about our agenda for reform. We were very Senator Sherry. Can the minister outline how clear before the last election about the need the Australian tourism industry is recovering to put in place a fairer system of taxation on from the downturn caused by the global fi- our minerals resources. I know, Senator, that nancial crisis, from other economic factors you do not agree with that but that is the and from recent natural disasters? Is the out- government’s policy. In relation to carbon look positive for the industry, its thousands pricing, we are very clear about the need to of small business operators, their employees price carbon and we will continue to work and the communities which depend on the through that policy agenda, too. (Time ex- industry? pired) Senator SHERRY—I thank Senator Senator CORMANN—Mr President, I Furner for his interest in tourism issues gen- ask a further supplementary question. If all erally. Despite recent concerns, tourism re-

CHAMBER 1271 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 mains Australia’s leading service export Senator Ronaldson—So will you modify earner. It was worth $23 billion in 2009-10. the carbon tax? In fact, in 2009-10, despite being a difficult Senator SHERRY—Carbon tax and envi- year on the domestic front, tourism grew ronmental issues more broadly reflect a faster than Australia’s economy—it grew at growing social awareness which is reflected 3.2 per cent to $34 billion, compared to 2.3 in part also in tourism more generally. Peo- per cent. In 2010, Australia’s tourism indus- ple travel for many and varied reasons. Ob- try experienced a recovery. We welcomed viously, one of them is to look at different 5.9 million international visitors, up just over environments. The issues are related to that five per cent on the previous year. This was extent—part of a broader concern about the led by an increasing market growth from future of the planet. That is one of the rea- many Asian countries and in particular re- sons people travel to Australia. (Time ex- cord growth from China. What is not com- pired) monly known is that China is now Austra- Senator FURNER—Mr President, I ask a lia’s largest tourism market by value. The further supplementary question. Is the minis- inbound value of the market was some $3.1 ter optimistic about the challenges ahead of billion for the year ending December 2010. the tourism industry and, in particular, for Driving these strong figures from the China regional tourism businesses? market is the obvious strength of the Chinese economy, what is broadly known as the mid- Senator SHERRY—In respect of the re- dle-classing of China and the introduction of cent disasters I want to emphasise that, while additional airline services, a good example of there was some impact on Queensland, which is China Southern Airlines, which re- Queensland is open for business. The vast cently opened direct flights to Brisbane. That majority of Queensland tourism facilities are airline plans to increase its services to 50 a open and operating. We have provided $12 week by 2012. million for a tourism industry assistance package and there have been a number of Tourism contributes just over half a mil- other initiatives. The first booking figures lion jobs and there was an increase in tour- from the online travel company Orbitz since ism employment over the year 2009-10. This the screening of Oprah’s Australian shows is particularly important for small business. reveal spending on bookings from the US to Ninety per cent of tourism operators are Australia have increased by almost 10 per small businesses, particularly in rural and cent and the hotel reservations have risen by regional areas. (Time expired) 13.6 per cent. Senator FURNER—Mr President, I ask a Senator Abetz—So we are now relying supplementary question. Can the minister on Oprah! advise the Senate what the government is doing to help domestic tourism operators, Senator SHERRY—We have utilised especially small businesses in those areas Oprah. She is willing to assist in Australian affected by recent natural disasters? tourism promotion. Why shouldn’t we, Sena- tor Abetz? We will draw on anyone who Senator SHERRY—Everyone is well wants to recommend Australia and Queen- aware of the impact the recent floods have sland. (Time expired) had on Queensland—Queensland was par- ticularly hard hit. Tourism is a major industry in Queensland, worth $9.2 billion.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1272

Asylum Seekers personnel had in fact been returned to the Senator CASH (2.50 pm)—My question centre. I can get further information for you is to the Minister representing the Minister but it is my understanding, based on what for Immigration and Citizenship, Senator has been explained to me, that there had been Carr. Giving the increasingly conflicting a small number of people not in detention. statements by the Australian Federal Police, Shortly before we came into this chamber, immigration department officials on Christ- however, a briefing was provided indicating mas Island and Mr Bowen, the Minister for that all personnel had now been returned to Immigration and Citizenship, as to the status the centre. of those asylum seekers who forcibly broke Senator CASH—Mr President, I ask a out of detention during the recent week of supplementary question. I refer to Minister protests on Christmas Island, can the minis- Bowen’s statement on Thursday, 17 March ter definitively advise how many of those 2011, following a night of rioting by some asylum seekers remain at large and roaming asylum seekers on Christmas Island, when he the island? stated: Senator CARR—I thank Senator Cash … the situation on Christmas Island … is calm. for her question. I watched with interest as Given the nature of the violent protests, Senator Brandis took the question to you and which included the use of tear gas and bean- I saw you rehearsing it for some time. So I bag rounds, mass break-outs, fires, rock have had some opportunity to consider my throwing and protests, is this what the Gil- answer! lard government defines as a situation that is The PRESIDENT—Address the ques- ‘calm and under control’? tion, Senator Carr. Senator CARR—From time to time one Opposition senators interjecting— is somewhat surprised by the nature of ques- The PRESIDENT—When there is si- tions in this chamber, and this happens to be lence, we will proceed. one of those occasions. Is the senator seri- ously suggesting that anyone in this chamber Opposition senators interjecting— would do anything other than condemn the Senator CARR—The recent protest ac- violence by personnel on Christmas Island— tivity at the Christmas Island detention cen- the attempts to inflict violence on officers of tre is, I am advised, under control and is be- the Commonwealth? And would anyone se- ing jointly managed by the AFP, the immi- riously suggest that anybody in this chamber gration department and Serco, the depart- would do anything other than say that that is ment’s detention service providers. Over the totally inappropriate? For any question to weekend, the AFP deployed 70 officers to propose anything to the contrary is, I would Christmas Island to support those already say, to insult the intelligence of every senator present on the island, taking the total number in this chamber. of AFP officers to 188. Senator CASH—Mr President, I ask a Senator Cash asked about the number of further supplementary question. I refer to the people at large. My advice was that a small minister’s statement on Friday, 18 March number of people had not been returned to 2011: the centre. However, just before question At no stage during the week have I underplayed time I heard the briefing, as you did, by offi- the seriousness of this situation. cers on Christmas Island indicating that all

CHAMBER 1273 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Will the minister concede that this situation Senator ARBIB—Yes, this Thursday is has now become much more serious than the National Close the Gap Day and I would government was willing to concede? Is not encourage all Australians to get actively in- the overcrowding on Christmas Island which volved in the campaign. I also note that to- gave rise to the serious disturbance the inevi- day is Harmony Day—the orange ribbons we table result of the government’s failed border are wearing celebrate our cultural diversity. I protection policies? think it is very important to recognise our Senator CARR—I do not think it can be Indigenous culture arising, as it does, from seriously argued that the minister has been one of the world’s oldest civilisations. anything other than very frank and open with There is a great deal of progress being the Australian people about the nature of the made in Indigenous employment. The vast circumstances in Australian detention cen- majority of the work being undertaken is tres. My reading of the minister’s statements through the Job Network—through Job Ser- is that they have been very frank about the vices Australia. Two years ago, Job Services difficulties faced as a result of the increasing Australia was reformed. It was reformed to numbers of people placed in detention. Un- put the emphasis on disadvantaged job seek- der no circumstances would one suggest ei- ers. The financial incentives were moved to ther that the government condones this ac- the back end to ensure that those in streams 3 tion or that it will be doing anything other and 4 of Job Services Australia were getting than treating these issues with the utmost the support they needed to get them into em- seriousness. The minister has indicated that ployment—80 per cent of those in streams 3 criminal charges could certainly be laid by and 4 are Indigenous. The good news is we the Commonwealth Director of Public are starting to see results. Compared to non- Prosecutions as part of any AFP investigation Indigenous job seekers, four per cent fewer into the recent events on Christmas Island. Indigenous job seekers have returned to the How could you say anything other than that employment services system 13 weeks after shows how seriously the minister has re- being placed into jobs. This is a significant garded this issue? The minister has said that improvement and it shows that the job ser- he will consider, on a case-by-case basis— vices network is working for Indigenous job (Time expired) seekers. Indigenous Employment But it is not just through the Job Network Senator CROSSIN (2.57 pm)—My ques- that we are doing this work; it is also through tion today is to the Minister for Indigenous the IEP—the Indigenous Employment Pro- Employment and Economic Development, gram. So far 40,000 employment and train- Senator Arbib. With this Thursday, 24 ing places have been created since the IEP March, marking National Close the Gap Day, was reformed in July 2009. It is going to- could the minister please advise the Senate wards businesses that are really seeing re- on what progress the government is making sults. Look at Linfox—they committed over towards halving the gap in Indigenous em- a year ago to putting 500 Indigenous people ployment? Could the minister also outline into employment and they have already hit the importance of improving levels of In- 100 Indigenous workers, with another 12 digenous employment and promoting eco- being trained right now. Ngarda Civil and nomic development in order to reach other Mining, a company in Western Australia, are Closing the Gap targets? right now training and employing 184 In-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1274 digenous workers in the Pilbara. These are practices, such as Ayers Rock and the Uluru the results—(Time expired) resort. That resort previously had over 600 Senator CROSSIN—Mr President, I ask employees but there were fewer than 10 In- a supplementary question. The minister men- digenous workers employed. The ILC has tioned the Indigenous business enterprise purchased that resort, is working with the Ngarda Civil and Mining in his response so I Indigenous community and is going to en- ask: would the minister please inform the sure that the Indigenous communities in that Senate of what the government is doing more region get access to the facility for employ- broadly to support the development of In- ment and for training. What the ILC is also digenous enterprises? doing is ensuring that Indigenous job seekers from around the country interested in hospi- Senator ARBIB—We are never going to tality and tourism will get an opportunity to close the gap on Indigenous employment train at the resort and go back to their own unless we make ground on Indigenous busi- resorts and tourism sites in the other parts of nesses. Economic development is critical and the country. (Time expired) crucial to making that happen. One of the things the government have done is to work Senator Chris Evans—Mr President, I with the not-for-profits and with corpora- ask that further questions be placed on the tions. We have invested $3 million in the Notice Paper. Australian Indigenous Minority Supply QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: Council, AIMSC, and they are making great ADDITIONAL ANSWERS ground. As at 31 December 2010, AIMSC Edwards, Lance Corporal Mason had certified 67 Indigenous businesses and Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Aus- had attracted 54 corporates, which are some tralia—Minister for Tertiary Education, of the best names in Australian business Skills, Jobs and Workplace Relations) (3.02 world, and had also attracted a number of pm)—On 2 March, Senator Fielding asked federal and state government departments. me a question about the death of Lance Cor- Already it has generated $4.4 million in con- poral Mason Edwards and the guidelines tracts and $2.9 million in transactions be- relating to the listing of names on the Austra- tween its members and certified suppliers. lian War Memorial’s Roll of Honour. During The best part about it is that 72 per cent of the course of answering Senator Fielding’s the employees of these new Indigenous busi- question I agreed to take some matters on nesses are Indigenous. (Time expired) notice. On 3 March, the Minister for Veter- Senator CROSSIN—Mr President, I ask ans’ Affairs, Mr Snowdon, wrote to Senator a further supplementary question. Would the Fielding providing a detailed response to his minister also provide to the Senate some question. I seek leave to incorporate that let- specific examples of successful Indigenous ter in Hansard. projects that have been supported by this Leave granted. federal government? The document read as follows— Senator ARBIB—There are a number of good examples but the one that stands out for The Hon Warren Snowdon MP me at the moment is the work of the Indige- Minister for Veterans’ Affairs nous Land Corporation, the ILC. The ILC is Minister for Defence Science and Personnel an organisation that has gone into many ar- Minister for Indigenous Health eas and used some very innovative business

CHAMBER 1275 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Senator Steve Fielding Senator for Victoria during a training exercise which under current SG-6 1 eligibility is not defined as warlike service. Parliament House Parliament House, Canberra ACT 2600 Tel: (02) 6277 7820 Fax: (02) 6273 4140 CANBERRA ACT 2600 The Council is an independent body and it is not Dear Senator Fielding the place of the Government to undertake a re- I refer to your questions yesterday to Senator the view regarding eligibility for the Roll of Honour. Hon Chris Evans concerning Lance Corporal However, the Council has been asked to consider Mason Edwards and the exclusion of his name how those members of the Australia Defence from the Australian War Memorial’s Roll of Hon- Force who are killed in circumstances such as our. You have queried whether the Government Lance Corporal Edwards might be recognised. has been in contact with Lance Corporal Ed- I undertake to keep you informed of further de- wards’ family to discuss this matter and whether velopments in relation to this matter. Yours sin- the Government will commit to considering a cerely review of the processes and criteria for admission to the Roll of Honour. 3 MAR 2011 Lance Corporal Edwards’ death on the night of 20 WARREN SNOWDON October 2009 while preparing for another de- QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ployment to Afghanistan was indeed a great trag- TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS edy. Live fire training prior to overseas active service should never have such a sad outcome. Immigration On 20 January 201 1, I wrote to Ms Mackay re- Senator CASH (Western Australia) (3.03 garding her son. I informed her that the Council pm)—I move: of the Australian War Memorial has the responsi- That the Senate take note of the answer given bility for making all decisions regarding additions by the Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science to the Roll of Honour. Eligibility criteria has been and Research (Senator Carr) to questions without the subject of careful consideration by Council notice asked by me today, relating to Immigra- since the Roll has been established. The Council tion. endeavours at all times to make decisions consis- Senator Carr confirmed in question time to- tent with criteria that have been in place since the day everything that is going wrong with the Roll was first established for deaths during the First World War, in particular with its role as the Labor Party’s border protection policy. When nation’s comprehensive commemorative listing of you actually look at where the Labor gov- all those who have fallen on warlike, active ser- ernment has taken this country in relation to vice. border protection, this is the situation that is To be eligible for inclusion on the Roll of Honour currently facing the Australian people: we an individual must have died as a result of war- have on the minister’s own admission in like service while a member of the Australian question time today that Christmas Island is Defence Force. The Council has agreed to accept overflowing beyond capacity. I have just the definition of warlike service as provided by recently been informed that the AFP have the Department of Defence. actually stopped boats stopping at Christmas As you may be aware, the Council is currently Island and they have to be taken to the chaired by General Peter Cosgrove AC MC mainland because of the overcrowding on (Reed) and has as ex officio members the Chiefs the island. If that report is true that is an ab- of Navy, Army and Air Force. solute indictment on this government be- While Lance Corporal Edwards was a serving cause it is not their decision to stop the boats, member of the Australian Defence Force at the it is the AFP’s decision. It is an absolute in- time of his death, his death occurred in Australia dictment on this government.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1276

Labor are now opening detention centre ity that she did. That was not the greatest after detention centre particularly in relation betrayal at all. One of the greatest betrayals to Northam in Western Australia with almost that this parliament has ever seen is the fail- no consultation at all with the local commu- ure of those on the other side on their border nity. We all know that universal offshore protection policy. Christmas Island has de- processing is now completely, totally and scended into absolute chaos. We have the utterly finished because the Labor Party an- AFP having to use tear gas and beanbag nounced that they will not be taking boats to rounds. We have mass break-outs. We have Christmas Island; they will be brought fires. We have rock throwing. We have pro- straight to the mainland. Minister Carr con- tests. We have asylum seekers who are on the firmed today in question time that there is an loose. And the government says that the absolute debacle on Christmas Island. In fact situation is under control. he almost accused me of downplaying the The situation is far from under control. situation. The situation in relation to the Labor Party’s Then we have the Minister for Immigra- border protection policy is in complete, total tion and Citizenship who must be really and utter disarray. If those on the other side questioning the poisoned chalice that he has actually think that this is the way to run Aus- been handed by the Prime Minister. We have tralia’s border protection regime, then quite abysmal failures with what is going on with frankly they deserve to be thrown out at the border protection. And what is the govern- next election. This government has shown in ment’s response? They try to downplay it the few short months it has been in office with a wall of spin to the Australian people. that—just like the former Rudd govern- Minister Bowen, on Thursday, 17 March, ment—when it comes to protecting Austra- following a night of rioting by some of the lia’s borders it has absolutely no idea what- asylum seekers on Christmas Island said: soever. This is a government that—just like ‘The situation on Christmas Island is calm.’ the former Rudd government—when it Then the following day, when he realised comes to protecting Australia’s borders that he really did have a problem on his lurches from one problem to the next. This is hands, he came out with the statement: ‘At a government that is now reaping what it has no stage during the week have I underplayed sown, but it is the poor Australian taxpayer the seriousness of the situation.’ And if that that will pay for these border protection fail- was not bad enough, if the minister himself ures. (Time expired) was not misleading the Australian people in Senator CAMERON (New South Wales) relation to what was going on on Christmas (3.08 pm)—I always love following Senator Island, let us now have a look at what Prime Cash because she makes me feel cool, calm Minister Gillard said. Last Sunday after the and collected—not like Senator Cash. You week of riots at Christmas Island Prime Min- have to put in context what Senator Cash has ister Gillard told Australians: ‘The situation just said and you have to understand what at Christmas Island is under control.’ she has said to this place on many occasions. I stood in this place three weeks ago and What Senator Cash is about is the dog whis- said that one of the greatest betrayals of the tle. It is about refugees not getting a fair go Australian people was when the Prime Min- and it is about stopping the boats. They hold ister, just before the election, said she would the part of the debate that goes to the lowest never implement a carbon tax under her gov- common denominator. That is Senator Cash. ernment and then, post the election, the real-

CHAMBER 1277 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Every time she is on her feet the whistle is after by this government. We will not be blowing. That is the reality. sending the SAS out to try to do what you The Labor Party is not prepared to go did—that is, turn back legitimate asylum down that path because we are very clear seekers. That is what happened. Senator that people have to be treated fairly, people Abetz, you know that is what happened. The have to be treated equitably and, if people majority of people that came in on the Tampa have a genuine claim for refugee status, then are here now. They were legitimate asylum they should get that status. They should not seekers but, for pure political advantage, you have temporary protection visas where they wanted to send the SAS out to say that we never know if they can start a life here or were tough on refugees. That is what you not. They should not be treated as someone did; that is what the coalition is about. This is different because they have a different relig- an international problem that is being dealt ion, as we have heard from across on your with by governments all over the world. Asy- side. We are not prepared to go into that ap- lum seekers have to have their rights pro- proach, which is not very far away from a tected and we will do that. position adopted by the British National We will not get into the gutter with Sena- Party in the UK—the worst lowest common tor Cash. We will not get into the gutter with denominator you can get. Senator Bernardi. It is quite interesting to see We are prepared to take these issues on, as it is the Western Australians lining up for this we are prepared to take on all of the big de- debate again. bates that are important. Here we have this Opposition senators interjecting— debate about protecting our borders. Our Senator CAMERON—You know you borders are secure. You know that our bor- make that noise to the lowest common de- ders are secure because we have a situation nominator in Western Australia and the rest unlike that of other countries. This is an in- of the country. You can do that, but we are ternational problem where people all over going to stand up for people’s rights. We are the world are looking for protection. They going to make sure that people are looked are looking for somewhere they can go to after. We are going to make sure that our have religious freedom, to have their social international obligations are maintained and rights looked after and to have a decent life. we will do that in a way that ensures that this Where else would they want to come but government has some credibility, not like Australia? Australia is a country that looks you had in your time in government. after all of these issues. Senator BACK (Western Australia) (3.14 Senator Abetz—Open the doors. pm)—It is interesting to be told by Senator Senator CAMERON—Senator Abetz, I Cameron that Western Australia is the lowest will take that interjection. Nobody is arguing common denominator—and I thank him. He the doors should be opened. That is another speaks about the dog whistle. In my veteri- fabrication from the coalition. There has to nary days the dog whistle was used to round be a formal process—a proper process—to up the sheep. It would appear that the round- judge whether people should be allowed to ing up of the sheep is definitely needed on come into this country and that is what we the other side of this chamber. What a deba- are doing. We will do that. We will not have cle and what a disgusting situation. What an a position where people are denied their in- effort by the minister, Minister Carr, in trying ternational rights. Their rights will be looked to respond to Senator Cash’s question on

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1278 asylum seekers earlier this afternoon. In his ing to see whether he could open that facility efforts, he damned his own minister, Minis- so that those who did not participate in this ter Bowen. From his own words he damned law breaking could be safe while the law- Minister Bowen with his claim that there was breakers continued on their way. What is calmness. going to happen to them, we can only wait to To follow on from Senator Cameron’s see. comments—and it is a shame that he is leav- I will now turn to the town of Northam, ing the chamber—we now have three classes where I was a resident through the decades of asylum seekers who are trying to get to of the 1970s and the 1980s. Like most young Australia. The first and, unfortunately, the kids who went through cadets, I spent a lot lowest on the queue are those who are le- of time at the old Northam army barracks. It gitimate and whose applications have been is three kilometres out of town and it is right approved. They are rotting in camps in Af- on the Great Eastern Highway to the eastern rica and elsewhere—and long will they rot states. I call on Minister Bowen, whilst he whilst those who are jumping the queue still is the minister, to completely remove manage to do so. Until last week, we had any plan to construct a facility in Northam only one other group and those were queue for 1,500 young men. This facility will be jumpers. But last week on Christmas Island three kilometres out from a very, very quiet we actually divided them into two groups. residential wheat belt town. If the govern- There are those who are prepared to break ment cannot control asylum seekers on an the law, those who are prepared to destroy island, what chance have they got of control- Australian property and those who are pre- ling them in and around Northam? On an pared to actually put at risk those who are island, asylum seekers have nowhere else to supposed to be caring for them. The reward go. As Senator Carr said, they will eventually they get, of course, is to be brought quickly be rounded up—of course they will. As soon to the Australian mainland. The third as you need a feed, you tend to go back to group—those fools who stayed around acting where the food is available. responsibly, as they were supposed to, in But in Northam, if anybody should break detention—sat there and now they have no- out of that camp—and they could break out where to go. We all wondered about this of it at any time once it is constructed—it situation the night after the law-breakers’ will be impossible to protect either the 1,500 actions. They were not deported from this people inside the detention camp or the country, told that their opportunity to come wider community outside it. It will be im- here had now been denied because of their possible to do so. I call on the minister, willingness to break our laws, destroy prop- whilst he is still the minister, to announce erty and put at risk the people who were that he is not going to proceed with that par- looking after them. On the second night, all ticular program—although he should possi- of those who had initially said, ‘We will sit bly do that for families. Premier Barnett, back; we will wait for Australian law to take very early in the process, said, ‘Limited its course.’ turned around and said, ‘The only numbers of people, limited numbers of fami- way for us to get to the mainland is in fact to lies and in consultation with the state gov- repeat their efforts.’ So we saw the burning ernment and local communities, and we will of facilities. We saw the gentleman who con- see what can be done.’ Was there consulta- trols the recreation centre on Christmas Is- tion by Minister Bowen? No, there was not. land being approached at three in the morn- Is there an attempt to relocate families into

CHAMBER 1279 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 that area? Knowing Northam as I do and need to flee from it and seek political asylum knowing that very camp, which was in fact a in other countries around the world. People refugee camp when it ceased being an army on that side have no sympathy, no compas- barracks after the Second World War, there sion; they seek to make political advantage has been tremendous assimilation within that from their misery. Quite frankly, as I said, it community. But 1,500 young men will not sickens me and it disgusts me. work. It did not work on Christmas Island; it There is of course enormous difficulty for will not work in Northam. It is absolutely all governments across the board when there essential that this minister resigns and that are periods of instability, as there have the Prime Minister takes control of the issue. been—and there will be more of it. We see If she cannot control our borders then she too what is happening in Northern Africa. We should resign so that we can put a govern- see it happening in Libya and in other coun- ment back into place that will. tries. I can tell you: there is no queue in Senator MARSHALL (Victoria) (3.19 Libya. We will see people displaced for what pm)—Quite frankly, it sickens me to see is looking like a long civil war in that coun- people try to take and make political advan- try. We will see people displaced and we will tage from the human suffering and the hu- see refugees. Some of them will be fleeing man misery of others. Quite frankly, it is ap- harassment. The very thing that the UN is palling. We have heard Senator Back— doing now is trying to protect civilians. They Senator Back—No political advantage, will not be able to protect them all and peo- Senator Marshall. ple will flee that country. A lot of them will go to Europe, some of them will try to make Senator MARSHALL—you can make their way to America and some of them will that interjection—refer to people as ‘queue try to make their way here. And you will say, jumpers’. This is a simplistic argument ‘Why didn’t they get in the queue? Why which you run to try to demonise people didn’t you get in that queue in Libya or seeking asylum in this country. Where was wherever that queue might be?’ They will be the queue in Sri Lanka? As the Sri Lankan fleeing torture; they will be fleeing war. They army was closing in on hundreds of thou- have a legal international right to seek asy- sands of the population who were in the lum in third countries. We have a legal obli- bombardment range and who were actually gation to take them and process their claims being driven into the sea, where was the for asylum. We have a right to do that, and queue for those people, Senator Back? There we have a legal obligation to do it. is no such thing as a queue for people who are escaping human rights abuses, torture, Whenever there is widespread conflict in human misery and war. It is just simplistic places across the globe, there are going to be and typical of the dog whistling attitude of more people seeking refugee status, not just the coalition, who will do and say anything in Australia but across the world. It is not a to try and make some political advantage problem that is unique to us. It is appalling about any issue that they can. This is the that those on the other side try to politicise great tragedy across the world. The fact is this. It is a balance. When most of these peo- that people need to flee their homelands be- ple flee torture and war, they do so genuinely cause of the human misery that they are suf- without papers or luggage or anything else. fering, because of torture, because of human Senator Cash—How do they get on aero- rights abuses and because of starvation. They planes?

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1280

Senator Abetz—How do they get a plane Senator ADAMS (Western Australia) to Indonesia? Where do they get the $10,000 (3.24 pm)—I rise to also take note of an- to fly to Indonesia? swers given by Minister Carr. Senator Mar- Senator MARSHALL—There we have shall has just made comments about us call- again the stereotyping of all these people. ing asylum seekers queue jumpers. Senator ‘They get on aeroplanes to go somewhere Marshall should cast his mind back. The cur- and then they get on a boat to come here, and rent foreign minister, when he was Prime none of them are genuine refugees.’ That is Minister, called them exactly that. He re- how you try to paint all these people. ferred to asylum seekers as queue jumpers. The federal government seems to have dis- Senator Abetz—It is the majority. carded their immigration policy by allowing Senator MARSHALL—It is not the ma- more than 100 people intercepted near Ash- jority at all. We know that the vast majority more Reef to be taken straight to the Austra- of them end up having their claims for asy- lian mainland. What is going on? This was lum approved. The vast majority of them are never to happen. They were supposed to go genuine asylum seekers. That is something to Christmas Island to be processed. I won- that you do not like, because you want to der what signal this is going to send. More paint all these people as opportunists and and more people will get to Ashmore Reef queue jumpers. That is what you have done knowing that they are going to jump Christ- and what you want to do, and it makes me mas Island and go straight to the mainland. sick. It is political opportunism that plays on Where have they been taken? We are not people’s most basic fears. You ought to know privy to that. better. You ought to be leaders in the com- This change seems to have come after munity. pressure from the police as a result of their The Australian government needs to as- difficulties in trying to contain outbreaks of sess every claim for asylum that is made. We unrest and violence on Christmas Island. need to check where these people have come They have done their best, and I really con- from and whether their claims are genuine. gratulate them on what they have done. But I We need to establish that they are who they guess it comes to a stage when you have too say they are. That is very difficult to do many people there and a too small number of sometimes when people have fled countries, police to deal with them and to try to protect especially when the regimes that they have the community of Christmas Island. The fled from are uncooperative. It is an incredi- people of Christmas Island are in their turn bly difficult process. There is always a bal- becoming very agitated and upset about hav- ance between the government’s responsibil- ing detainees breaking out into their commu- ity to process people properly and to ensure nity. It now seems that it is too dangerous to that their claims are accurate and that they put more detainees on Christmas Island, so are who they say they are and the govern- they will be coming straight to the mainland. ment’s responsibility to put people through The coalition is opposed to processing the system as quickly as we can possibly can. refugees on the mainland of Australia. That is a challenge not only for this govern- Christmas Island was excised for immigra- ment but for every government. I strongly tion purposes means. People now have to be urge the opposition to get some humanity processed within 90 days. The problem is back. (Time expired) that now they will be able to have their cases heard by an independent refugee tribunal and

CHAMBER 1281 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 have unfettered access to courts of appeal. Northam. It is never going to be ready. The This means that no-one will be able to be dongas are going to need to be refurbished. sent back to where they came from. There is no power. Water is going to be diffi- There also seems to be a problem with a cult. Sewerage is not in place. So there is no backdown on asylum seeker processing pro- way that the Northam facility is going to be tocols. The electric fencing on Christmas ready. Six-hundred detainees were supposed Island around the high security detention to be on that site by the end of this month. centre has been switched on, in what seems That is certainly not going to happen. An- to be a desperate attempt to bring the situa- other 500 were supposed to be on the site by tion under control. The government is now June or July 2011. Goodness me! That is not considering releasing thousands of asylum going to happen. What sort of planning is seekers who are in detention while their this? I feel very sorry for the people of claims are being finalised. The mechanisms Northam. (Time expired) for doing this would include a new visa cate- Question agreed to. gory for those who have been identified as Indigenous Health genuine refugees and who are awaiting a Senator SIEWERT (Western Australia) security clearance. (3.29 pm)—I move: The security and safety of communities is That the Senate take note of the answer given a mounting issue, with communities up in by the Minister for Indigenous Employment and arms about their own personal safety when Economic Development, Minister for Sport and refugees break out and riot and in those Minister for Social Housing and Homelessness communities where future facilities are (Senator Arbib) to a question without notice planned. I am a Western Australian senator. asked by me today, relating to alcohol related My colleagues have mentioned Northam. I issues in Alice Springs. live 60 kilometres from Northam. People I note that Senator Arbib did not answer my have been told by the department of immi- question about the issue of a floor price or gration that there is, as Senator Back said, minimum price for alcohol in Alice Springs going to be a facility built three kilometres or in fact answer my questions about reduc- from the town. That facility will house 1,500 ing access to takeaway alcohol. male detainees. Our biggest prisons in WA The Menzies School of Health Research, have 900 people or so. How one would keep which has been looking at this, shows that 1,500 male detainees in a facility near a town alcohol related harm in the Northern Terri- like Northam we really do not know. tory is more than four times the national av- I, Senator Cash and the Deputy Leader of erage. It clearly indicates that attention is the Opposition, Julie Bishop, were at a needed for alcohol consumption in the community meeting in Northam addressed Northern Territory and in Alice Springs. This by the immigration department—not the has been a consistent issue and call from the minister; he had been in Perth, but he cer- community in Alice Springs for a long time. tainly did not go to Northam. The agitation What they got in 2007 was a top-down inter- shown by the people living near and around vention that actually did not really address the site was very sad to see. Their properties alcohol consumption other than banning it in are going to lose value. They are certainly prescribed communities. Many of those not very happy about what is happening. communities were in fact already dry. But it However, the process has been stalled in has focused attention on Alice Springs, and

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1282 there has been movement from communities Actually, there are other underlying issues, into Alice Springs. but one of the prime issues we need to deal Some work has been done in Alice with is access to alcohol. Springs to reduce the supply of alcohol. In For a start, we need to be using the price fact, alcohol related harm incidents have in mechanism, which all the research shows fact gone down overall by 14.4 per cent. will work, in combination with other meas- They had gone down by 18 per cent, but al- ures such as reducing access to takeaway, so cohol suppliers started bringing in cheaper that we do not get the animal bars that oper- alcohol, which has undermined the effective- ate in the Northern Territory. In those bars ness of the alcohol restriction measures, so you can drink in the morning in Alice we have seen a slight increase in alcohol re- Springs and then, when you get kicked out of lated harm, but it is not as high as pre-2006 there after lunch, the taxis will line up and issues. take you around to the takeaway, where you One wonders why Mr Abbott has jumped can buy the takeaway alcohol. This is not on the bandwagon and called for another good enough. We need to be standing up to intervention. For a start, the word ‘interven- the alcohol industry here. We need to be re- tion’ is a dirty word in the Northern Territory. stricting access to alcohol. We need to make It implies exactly what he means it to mean, sure that there is a minimum price for alco- which is another top-down approach to deal- hol. We also need to be providing rehab ser- ing with these community related issues. The vices. We need to fund night-time meal ser- government has not grabbed the bull by the vices in Alice Springs, which I understand horns; it has not stood up to the alcohol in- there is very limited access to at this stage. dustry; it has not introduced floor pricing; it Some of the services, one particularly, has has not brought in controls on the number of only about six months of funding and does takeaway outlets. I got some figures from the not know if it will be able to continue. library today showing that there are still 134 Another issue in the Northern Territory is liquor licences in the Alice Springs area. the short-term funding cycles where just That is an exorbitant number of alcohol out- when you are getting a good program up and lets in Alice Springs. running the funding cuts out and somebody The usual approach is to call for more po- thinks it is a bright idea to fund something lice. I have done some numbers on police in else, thereby taking away funding from ef- the Northern Territory. In the Northern Terri- fective services. We need a sensible ap- tory there are 716 police for every 1,000 proach, not knee-jerk reactions and sensa- people. This compares to an Australia-wide tionalising of very serious issues that need to rate of 297 police per 1,000 people. In other be properly dealt with so that we do not get a words, we already have significant police cycle like we have seen in Alice Springs, numbers in the Northern Territory. And, by where we started to have a reduction in alco- the way, the number of Aboriginal people in hol consumption and alcohol related violence our prison system is absolutely disgraceful as but that has gone up again as the measures it is far too high. Instead of just taking the have been undermined. usual law and order approach, which is to A top-down, knee-jerk approach of just bring in more police and lock people up, why putting more cops on the street is not going don’t we start addressing this issue at its fun- to solve this problem in the Northern Terri- damental cause, which is access to alcohol? tory and in Alice Springs. We need a much

CHAMBER 1283 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 more thoughtful response, but in particular efforts continue it is clear that this powerful we need a government to stand up to the al- earthquake has extracted a terrible toll. cohol industry and turn off the tap, as the Australians have all been deeply affected community has been calling for. (Time ex- by the suffering of the Japanese people as a pired) result of the 11 March earthquake and tsu- Question agreed to. nami. Our two nations enjoy close diplo- JAPAN NATURAL DISASTERS matic, security, trade and people-to-people relations. We share more than 100 sister city Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Aus- relationships. I note there was a delegation of tralia—Minister for Tertiary Education, Australian parliamentarians in Japan, and we Skills, Jobs and Workplace Relations) (3.35 welcome back Senator Cash. I am glad to see pm)—by leave—I move: that she came through unscathed but, I sus- That the Senate: pect, impacted by the terrible circumstances (a) express its deep shock and sorrow at the around that delegation when the earthquake earthquake, tsunami and nuclear emergency hit. Many thousands of Australians travel to that have struck Japan; Japan each year on business and on holiday, (b) extend its profound sympathies to the many including young Australians who participate families whose loved ones have been lost in in Japan’s working holiday program. Many this tragedy; Australian students are there on Endeavour (c) express its gratitude and admiration to the Award scholarships and other scholarships. Australian emergency response personnel My department has been active in ensuring who are assisting in the recovery effort; and they are all safe, and I am pleased to say they (d) pledge the support of the Australian parlia- are. There were 11,000 Japanese tourists and ment and community as Japan comes to more than 6,000 Japanese students in Austra- terms with the immensity of this disaster and lia when the disaster struck. Obviously, that the long costly process of reconstruction that lies ahead. has deeply affected them and the tragedy has been felt in every part of Australia. Australians have been shocked and saddened by the humanitarian crisis that has engulfed On behalf of the Australian government, Japan since it experienced a powerful earth- the and the Australian quake and tsunami on 11 March. We have all people, I extend my deepest sympathies to watched in horror the TV images that have those who grieve for family members and been sent around the world. friends lost in the devastating natural disas- ter. We hold out hope for those still missing In addition to the aftershocks, the risk and and we sympathise with their families who uncertainty associated with damage to the are awaiting news. Fukushima nuclear power plant has further tested the Japanese people during the past Japan will be tested severely in the days, two weeks. This has been an unspeakable weeks, months and years ahead. Australia tragedy for the people of Japan. More than stands prepared to provide the assistance 8,000 people are dead, more than 12,000 Japan needs as it deals with its immediate people are missing and more than half a mil- challenges and begins the task of rebuilding lion people are homeless. Millions have been damaged lives and infrastructure. Australia affected by disruptions to power, communi- has already provided more than 70 search cations and transport and a shortage of food and rescue personnel to support the search and water. Even as the search and rescue and rescue effort. The nation is proud of the

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1284 contribution they have made in the search for get enough credit for the job they do in these survivors, and I know they have been greatly circumstances and there is often some criti- appreciated and valued by our Japanese cism around as they struggle to deal with friends. extraordinary circumstances where commu- Today the Prime Minister announced the nication is difficult, where information is Australian government will make a $10 mil- hard to get and where we have large numbers lion donation to support the recovery effort of Australians ‘in country’, many of whom in the wake of the devastating earthquake are not registered. So it is an enormous task and tsunami that struck Japan. The donation and I think they have done a fantastic job and will be made to the Red Cross Japan and we thank them for that effort. Pacific Disaster Appeal on the advice of the In moving this proposed resolution, I Japanese government. think I can speak on behalf of all senators in Japan has recovered from disaster before. saying this shocking event has really moved This great nation recovered from the 1923 Australians. We extend our deepest sympa- earthquake which killed more than 100,000 thy to the people of Japan. The scale of this people and devastated Tokyo. Australia and disaster is quite incredible. We will do every- Japan are friends in good times and bad, and thing we can to support the Japanese people we will stand by Japan as its government and as they recover from this awful tragedy. I people respond to the immediate challenges thank the Senate. of this crisis and begin the task of recovery Senator ABETZ (Tasmania) (3.41 pm)— and rebuilding. With more than 8,000 people confirmed In the wake of the Japanese earthquake dead, 2,700 injured and 12,200 still missing, and tsunami, the number of unaccounted-for our neighbour and friend Japan has been sub- Australians now stands at five. I want to ac- jected to one of the biggest natural disasters knowledge the anxiety felt by the family and in living memory. Never before, through the friends of those Australians whose safety is marvel of modern communications, has the yet to be confirmed and join them in wishing world witnessed horror of such an unfathom- for the timely confirmation that their loved able scale. As though a magnitude 9 quake ones are safe and well. was not enough, we witnessed the conse- quent tsunami, a 10-metre wall of water with I also want to acknowledge the staff of the its irresistible force. But even in this disaster, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade devastation and desperation, hope remained who have provided consular support to Aus- and was rewarded with a miraculous discov- tralians in Japan. Led by Ambassador ery and saving of an 80-year-old woman and Murray McLean, their support in the long her 16-year-old grandson nine days after the hours they have worked and the way that disaster. I am sure this discovery will provide they have gone about their business are a a much needed fillip, much needed support great credit to them and to the department and a renewed sense of purpose to their and the other departments who are repre- emergency workers. sented at the embassy. I know our own edu- cation counsellor, Karen Sandercock, has A characteristic which has served the been flat out supporting Australians in Japan Japanese well is their sense of stoicism. and providing what information and support Their tradition of rebirth as a nation is well she can. Often Department of Foreign Affairs documented. That tradition runs deep, as and Trade officials serving overseas do not Rowan Callick, the Australian’s Asia-Pacific

CHAMBER 1285 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 editor, noted on the weekend. As our Japa- What a wonderful testament that is to the nese friends tap into that rich vein of tradi- resilience, sense of purpose and sense of tion, they can be assured of our help as a community of the Japanese people. people individually and as represented by Japan as a nation has a pivotal role, both our government, our defence and emergency strategically and economically, in global personnel and departmental officials. We terms but especially so in our region. It is have provided air support, we have provided therefore within our—that is, Australia’s— search and rescue support, we have provided interests but also our region’s and the world’s nuclear scientific support—our people are interests that we combine to assist to rebuild doing us proud. Apart from this practical Japan, apart from the obvious and over- display, we provide what the Japanese de- whelming humanitarian obligation to do so. scribe as kanashimi, or sorrow, a word I Our wish is for another tsunami, but this time learnt only this morning—one that I trust I a tsunami of gigantic global goodwill to have not mangled too much—courtesy of overwhelm the Japanese people with com- His Excellency the Japanese Ambassador as fort, support and assistance. I congratulate I signed the condolence book at the Japanese the Australian government on its contribution Embassy. If there was any doubt of the world of $10 million announced today. It is for community support for Japan, the line-up of these reasons that the coalition joins with the ambassadors from around the world to sign government in supporting the motion moved the condolence book this morning would by the Leader of the Government and to ex- erase any such doubt. press our ‘kanashimi’ to the people of Japan. My office received a poignant first-hand Senator JOYCE (Queensland—Leader of eyewitness account from an Australian in the Nationals in the Senate) (3.47 pm)—I Japan. Her email read in part: will be brief. I concur with the remarks of Despite the devastation, what we have seen is Senator Evans and Senator Abetz. Many the undeniable strength and calm of the Japanese people in regional Australia have not been to people. We were in a hotel lobby at the time of Japan but it was most poignantly put to me the original ‘9’ quake and its subsequent after- by a lady who walked down the street in St shocks. The staff remained professional, all con- George and said, ‘It looks like the end of tinuing to do their work and even offering tea, coffee and biscuits in between the tremors. The time.’ I tended, after watching the television, supermarkets may be fast depleting in their sup- to agree with her. What Japan has been plies but there is a general understanding that through with in excess of 21,000 people ei- there should always be something left for the next ther killed or missing has been horrific and person, with no-one taking more than they need. apocalyptic. The Japanese people are sus- The Japanese people are taking every day as it tained by their stoic nature. It has been amaz- comes. They are doing so with calm and resil- ing for all to watch the television and see ience. They do not look to the future and feel sad how the Japanese people have quietly taken for what they may not have. Instead, they are their burden on their shoulders and are going banding together, helping and housing their about as best they can to restore their nation. neighbours and maintaining calm. There is no sense of panic, even with a constant and looming Restoring their nation is vitally important nuclear threat. This is not something that they are not only to the people of Japan but most thinking about or, if they are, they do not show it definitely to the people of Australia. Japan nor speak of it. remains our second biggest trading partner, only just after China, and as such is one of

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1286 the greatest markets for our coal. If Japan as nouncement this morning of the aid and note an economy were to stumble then the effects that we were among the first responders, as on Australia would be absolutely devastat- Japan was, right after the earthquake in ing. It is well within our own interest to Christchurch. That spirit of generosity now is make sure that we shoulder as much as we being more than repaid and I am proud to be can the burden of the Japanese people be- a part of that. This condolence is unusual in cause basically a lot of where Japan goes is that we are not paying our respects to a dis- where we go. aster in the past tense but one that is still un- Strategically, they are a strong ally. The folding. All of us here are aware of the un- Japanese have been a very kind benefactor thinkable magnitude of this disaster—the throughout the world. People note that Japan compounding horror of quake, tsunami, the is one of the greatest donors to areas of dis- crippled nuclear power complex and heavy tress throughout the globe, and now Japan unseasonal snowfalls—so I wish to add the itself is requiring others to turn their eyes condolences of the Australian Greens to towards it. Even now there is hope, with an those who have spoken already. Our thoughts 80-year-old lady, Sumi Abe, rescued yester- are with those who have lost family and day with her grandson Jin. This is an exam- friends, those made homeless, and those who ple of the hope and perseverance that people still endure the fear of not knowing if their still have at this point of time. loved ones are safe with so many still miss- ing. We carry with the Japanese people con- cerns over how they are dealing with the is- It would be easy to dwell on the unbeliev- sues, as seen on the television, surrounding able suffering that overtook the Pacific coast the nuclear power plant. We hope that that without warning the Friday before last. But issue can be brought quickly to heel and that what shines through are the moments of there are no long-term ramifications from it. courage and resilience that show up the true More than anything else I think of my character of the Japanese people. The web- daughter. At 10 years old, after watching the site prayforjapan.jp hosts translations of television, she said, ‘What can we do to messages from inside the disaster area. I help?’ That is what is occupying so many have just picked out two. The first: Australians’ minds: what can we do to help? An old man was rescued after being stranded The Japanese people should know that even in a house for 42 hours. He smiled at the camera, in the more remote parts of Australia where I ‘I’ve experienced the tsunami in Chile. I’ve seen and my other colleagues come from we are everybody get back on their feet. I know we can very concerned about Japan. Our hearts and do it.’ our prayers go towards the Japanese people. Another one: Whatever we can do in Australia to help the Nights were never this dark, and I never real- Japanese people they should just give us a ised how beautiful the stars were. Sendai, look up call and we will do it. and keep your heads high. Senator LUDLAM (Western Australia) That was overheard in an evacuation camp. (3.50 pm)—It is appropriate that the national Yesterday, we saw a young man and his 80- parliament should pause and offer our condo- year-old grandmother rescued from the lences to our friends in Japan, and I thank the freezing ruin of their house where they had government for scheduling this time. I also been surviving on yoghurt and soft drink congratulate the government for the an- while they waited for the Self-Defence Force to arrive.

CHAMBER 1287 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

A day after the quake shook Tokyo and the moment, we focus on disaster recovery stopped the city the trains were back in op- and relief for those in the midst of suffering; eration. I have seen an image of a road in tomorrow thoughts turn to rebuilding. An- Ibaraki prefecture torn in half and displaced other useful word to add to our lexicon that several feet in either direction and a photo Senator Abetz introduced is ‘Ganbare,’ that was taken four days later showing the which translates roughly as a combination of road repaired. The nationwide energy-saving ‘take courage’ and ‘keep your chin up’. Gan- crisis was dubbed Operation Yashima, from a bare, Nihon. Ganbare, Tohoku. famous Japanese animation. On 14 March, in Senator FIELDING (Victoria—Leader the face of extreme power shortages, people of the Family First Party) (3.54 pm)—On cut 40 per cent off demand for electricity. behalf of Family First, I would also like to We must acknowledge those at the centre echo the thoughts and prayers of other sena- of the exclusion zone: engineers, technicians, tors on this motion. Like many Australians, I emergency services workers and SDF per- was shocked at the images coming out of sonnel who, as we speak today, are taking Japan following the earthquake and tsunami. extraordinary personal risks to prevent the It was hard to imagine that it was real and meltdown disaster from escalating to some- actually happening. Our thoughts and thing truly unthinkable. We do not know the prayers are with all those families who have names of those people cycling in and out of lost loved ones and also those families who the plant on 10-minute shifts, but we owe are still missing family members. Also, we them our gratitude nonetheless. One of them think of the dangerous work that the workers wrote to his wife: at the nuclear power plants are going on Please try to be well. It’s important at least you with. We hope that that is brought under con- do. I won’t be able to come home for a while. trol very quickly and there is no further dam- It is too soon to know what lessons will be age there. Again, our deepest sympathies are learnt from the meltdown at Fukushima, with those families who have lost loved ones even as the invisible killer of radiation stalks and those who are injured. We hope they northern Japan and complicates rescue ef- have a speedy recovery. We know that the forts. That is not a debate for right now, but Japanese people are resilient and we are with one day soon there will be a reckoning. them standing strong in this time of need. I have been fortunate to travel to Japan on Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) several occasions and must admit I love the (3.56 pm)—I too rise to offer my condo- place dearly, the warmth of the people and lences to the people of Japan, following the the sheer crazy energy of the place. It is series of catastrophes that they have faced in deeply distressing to see our friends there put recent days. I echo the remarks of my col- under such awful stress. My partner, Rico, leagues before me. As Senator Ludlam has who is in the gallery today, has already said, these series of catastrophes are still un- taught me a lot about the resilience and the folding. We should pause to reflect on the stoic courage of her people and has shown thousands of lives lost due to the earthquake enormous courage and love herself. She em- and resulting tsunami, and the thousands of phasises that spirit of ‘what can I do?’ and lives threatened by the emergencies at the she just got to work. I am in no doubt at all nuclear power plants. It is important we also that this country will rebuild stronger. This is think about what now faces those who have a country that does what it sets out to do. For survived. Entire communities have been lost. Rebuilding will be a long, difficult and pain-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1288 ful process, but I have no doubt about the people of New Zealand in the Christchurch resilience, courage and strength of the Japa- earthquake; nese people to undertake what needs to be (b) extend its profound sympathies to the fami- done. We must do all we can to help Japan lies and friends of the Australians who lives rebuild. have been lost in this tragedy; I would like to take the opportunity to ex- (c) express its gratitude and admiration to the press my admiration for the Australian emer- Australian police and emergency response personnel who are assisting the recovery ef- gency response workers who have travelled fort; and to Japan to assist in this crisis. It is more than just the assistance which we are giving them (d) pledge any further help that may be required as New Zealand undertakes the process of that is important; it is also the moral support recovery and rebuilding. that we are giving that is important. Motions such as this are an important part of that to We now have the opportunity to reflect on make clear how strong the bond is between the earthquake in New Zealand. The parlia- our two nations. All disasters by definition ment had two minutes silence the last time are terrible, but the earthquake and tsunami we sat, but now we have much better infor- followed by the nuclear crisis seem to be in a mation as to the extent of the damage that different category of terrible. Our thoughts that earthquake delivered to New Zealand. are with the people of Japan now and in the The earthquake that struck Christchurch on future, and I support this motion. 21 February saw that city and nation con- front its darkest days in modern times. The The PRESIDENT—I ask senators to quake struck at 12.51 pm local time and stand in silence to signify their assent to the caused the deaths of at least 166 people and motion. injuries to many more. The number of con- Honourable senators having stood in their firmed deaths caused by the Christchurch places— earthquake is likely to rise beyond 180. The PRESIDENT—The motion is car- Twelve nationalities are among the list of ried. victims released by the New Zealand police. NEW ZEALAND EARTHQUAKE A long-term Australian resident of New Zea- land nationality and an Australian citizen Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Aus- who lived in Christchurch were among those tralia—Minister for Tertiary Education, who died. On behalf of the government, the Skills, Jobs and Workplace Relations) (3.58 Senate and the Australian people, I extend pm)—I seek leave to move a motion relating my deepest condolences to all those who lost to the earthquake in Christchurch, New Zea- loved ones in this terrible earthquake. land. The bonds between Australia and New Leave granted. Zealand are deep and lasting. In the week Senator CHRIS EVANS—It is very dif- before the disaster the Prime Minister trav- ficult to do this following the condolence elled to Wellington to address members of motion in relation to Japan we just carried. the New Zealand parliament. During that But, as we know, a terrible situation occurred address, Prime Minister Gillard observed in New Zealand just prior to that. I move: that: That the Senate–– … Australia has many alliances and friendships (a) express its condolences at the tragic loss of around the world … But New Zealand alone is life and damage to property suffered by the family.

CHAMBER 1289 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

The shock and sadness experienced by our and Trade and other agencies, including Cen- nation in the wake of the Christchurch catas- trelink, who provided support and assistance trophe gave life to the Prime Minister’s de- to Australians affected by the earthquake. scription of our enduring relationship. The In addition to the tragic loss of life, the strength of the relationship was underlined earthquake has destroyed and damaged tens when the Senate and the House of Represen- of thousands of homes and businesses in tatives had two minutes silence on 1 March. Christchurch, as well as essential public in- Last Friday the Governor-General, the Prime frastructure. Many New Zealanders are dis- Minister and the Leader of the Opposition placed from their homes and work, and the represented the nation in sorrow at the na- task of rebuilding Christchurch—New Zea- tional memorial service in Christchurch, fur- land’s second-most populous city—lies ther underlining the strength of our common ahead. The road ahead will not be easy. They bond. are still suffering from aftershocks, which Australia and New Zealand have long must be terrifying for those in the city. been partners in shared endeavours in this But New Zealanders will recover from part of the world and beyond. The story of this catastrophe and Australians will be by Anzac was born during the First World War their sides. Many Australians have already and generations of our soldiers have since reached across the Tasman to lend a hand, honoured it with their deeds on the battle- and Australian business and individuals have field. As a rugby man, I can testify that while made generous donations to appeals estab- we have been the fiercest of opponents on lished to assist New Zealanders affected by the sporting the field, we have been the firm- the earthquake. The Australian government est of friends off it. The resolve of the people has made a $5 million donation to the New of Christchurch is reflected in the continuing Zealand Red Cross to help with the earth- success of their rugby team despite the ad- quake recovery effort. There is of course versity of the times. much more to be done, but I know that the We have always helped each other in Australian government, our parliament and times of need. At the beginning of this year a our people will stand ready to assist New New Zealand civil defence response team Zealand with its recovery in any way that we came to Australia to assist us with our recov- can. We can reassure New Zealanders they ery efforts following the Queensland floods. will always have our support. In response to the Christchurch earthquake, Senator ABETZ (Tasmania) (4.04 pm)— Australian search and rescue teams, police History may well record 22 February 2011 as officers and Defence Force personnel were New Zealand’s darkest day, as suggested by deployed to New Zealand to support the re- New Zealand Prime Minister John Key. It sponse and rescue effort. Police officers from was a day that saw 182 lives lost, 10,000 the Australian Federal Police and from every homes destroyed and the CBD of Christ- state and territory formed part of the Christ- church devastated. Even the magnificent church earthquake police operation. The Christchurch Cathedral, which had withstood overall Australian effort at the height of the major damage from earthquakes for over a crisis involved more than 600 people. I ac- century, succumbed. knowledge and express my gratitude to the In the world community, we as Austra- Australian personnel who have gone to the lians have no greater, more loyal and suppor- aid of our New Zealand friends. I also thank tive friends than our cousins from across the staff from the Department of Foreign Affairs

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1290 ditch. Whilst we sportingly wallow in our and friends. Indeed, over 500 Australians grudges, especially in cricket and rugby, have helped in the disaster relief effort to those grudges are friendly family rivalries date. They have done us proud as a nation forgotten and discarded when crisis arrives at while providing much-needed practical sup- the doorstep. This is best encapsulated by the port. Anzac tradition—a tradition which has I also thank Prince William for his sensi- overwhelmingly helped to forge our relation- tive support to those Australians impacted by ship. That is, of course, not to forget that recent natural disasters, and also to New section 6 of our Constitution Act refers to Zealanders. He did the monarchy proud. New Zealand as the second-named possible The coalition support wholeheartedly the state of the Commonwealth of Australia. As Leader of the Government’s motion and we Senator Judith Adams, our not-so-token New extend our deepest sympathy to those who Zealander, noted in the adjournment on 2 have felt the full brunt and terror of this most March: recent earthquake. Australia has no closer friend and partner than New Zealand and every Australian will be sharing Senator BOB BROWN (Tasmania— in your pain. Leader of the Australian Greens) (4.08 pm)—On behalf of the Australian Greens I I commend the senator’s speech to honour- able senators. support the motion moved by the Leader of the Government in the Senate on the recent So as we try to feel and share the pain of earthquake in New Zealand. We express our our cousins across the Tasman, it is hard to warmest condolences to the people of imagine what the real-life experience was Christchurch and of New Zealand, and of the like. A 27-year-old Australian blogger poign- 20 countries whose citizens died in the ex- antly captured the experience as follows: traordinary earthquake which followed the I was convinced I was going to die. The city was earlier earthquake at the end of last year. I collapsing around me, people were being buried have very clear memories of going to the in rubble and others being struck in the head by funeral service for the New Zealand Green debris. Absolute pandemonium. It was surreal … MP Rod Donald, a great friend of mine, in both horrific yet somehow impossible and unbe- lievable like a nightmare. Christchurch Cathedral at the end of 2005 and acquainting myself again with the great The horror of the collapse of the six-storey beauty and civic pride of this premier city of CTV building is beyond imagination. And the South Island of New Zealand. It was ex- whilst buildings and infrastructure can be traordinary to hear of the destruction of so replaced, people cannot. So to the bereaved much of that city. I spoke with Kennedy we offer our condolences. To those injured Graham, a Green MP, on the day after the and debilitated we wish a speedy recovery disaster and it was difficult to fathom the and rehabilitation. To those charged with a account of how much of the city lay in ruins task of rebuilding we wish wisdom. But as and how many people potentially had lost the good book enjoins us in the Epistle of their lives or had been injured and were suf- James, to just say, ‘I hope all goes well’ is of fering because of this earthquake. no use unless you do something practical to help. The people of Australia and their gov- One thing that was not destroyed was the ernment have acknowledged this injunction great spirit of Cantabrians and their capital by providing useful, practical help in a range city, and the great spirit of human generosity of areas, as would be expected of true family that comes forward in such disasters around

CHAMBER 1291 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 the world, such as that which has just un- worked together. My grandfather was an An- folded in Japan. We saw it in Tibet last year zac from New Zealand, and when my father and now with the people of Christchurch and came from New Zealand there were no im- New Zealand, and we see it in the 600 Aus- migration laws between the two countries— tralians who have gone to help on behalf of you just made your own arrangements. This this nation which has felt so strongly the pain is the sort of connection that brings our two and suffering in Christchurch. countries together, and by reason of that we If there is one small piece of something have a real task to make sure, as with Japan, we can think is good coming out of a tragedy that we shoulder the burden with New Zea- like this, it is that we have moved just a little landers, who we know full well would help closer to the people of New Zealand as a us shoulder the burden if the roles were re- result of this quake—geographically as well versed. as spiritually. I say, using some of the words Our thoughts and prayers go to the people of Prince William: ‘Aroha’ to the people of of New Zealand. This event will cost New New Zealand—our respect and our love; and Zealand around $11 billion, and that will be ‘kia kaha’—be strong, and we feel strongly devastating for the New Zealand economy. with you. They are looking at around a 1½ per cent hit Senator JOYCE (Queensland—Leader of to their GDP as a result of this earthquake in the Nationals in the Senate) (4.11 pm)— their second most populous city. Whenever I say I am the son of an immigrant The National Party is the party of gov- and people ask where my father came from, I ernment in New Zealand, and the National say he came from New Zealand and they say Party here has strong connections with New that does not count. That is basically the atti- Zealand. It was who built our tude that many people have about New Zea- closer economic relations arrangements back land—New Zealanders believe that we are in 1979. We hope to be a good friend for an extension of them, while we believe they New Zealand over the long term while they are an extension of us, but either way they rebuild. We know the pain that they are feel- are virtually the same place. Be that as it ing and we will make sure we give what we may, it was devastating to hear of the earth- can in solace and support over the long term. quake in Christchurch. On 4 September last Our thoughts and prayers obviously go to year it had experienced another earthquake, those who have lost family members. The so the city was not really prepared for what pictures were so graphic—I remember seeing was about to happen. It is like seeing some- pictures of Timaru, where boulders had thing tear through a major regional city in ripped straight through houses. These are the Australia—164 people died in this earth- sorts of things that shake a person’s faith in quake, and if we transpose that into one ma- where they live. Christchurch had always jor regional city in Australia we would know been thought of as a town beyond the areas what an incredible and indelible effect that affected by earthquakes, and seismic and would have. Amongst those 164 fatalities volcanic activity was far more prevalent in there were two Australians. the North Island. So the earthquake was a This event will have a huge effect on the shock to the people of Christchurch. The economy of New Zealand. Australia does people of Christchurch and the people of have a role to play because we are all in this New Zealand know that the people of Aus- corner of the world together. We have always tralia will put aside our parochialism just for a moment as we do everything in our power

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1292 to subdue them in sport but to support them Scott, Managing Director of the ABC. He in this time of need. broke the news to me and told me what had Senator FIELDING (Victoria—Leader occurred. of the Family First Party) (4.16 pm)—On Senator Chris Evans—So they can break behalf of Family First, I echo the thoughts some news, then. and feelings of other senators in regard to the Senator XENOPHON—That is right: the earthquake in Christchurch. It was a terrible ABC delivered the news to me in a very di- disaster which touched the hearts of all Aus- rect sense. He was quite shocked. He showed tralians. The devastation, the loss of life and me on his iPad some of the reports and im- the damage to Christchurch were quite a ages, which made what transpired in Senate shock. I have spent some time living and estimates for the rest of the day rather insig- working in New Zealand. My daughter is a nificant. On the day after the quake it was Kiwi. We had some friends come to stay with hard to imagine the impact this disaster us—a husband, wife and daughter. The after- would have on our cousins on the other side shocks were terrifying and many people of the Tasman. As the pictures began hitting were really concerned about their safety. Our our television screens, it was hard not to be hearts go out to the many people whose lives affected by the stories of loss and survival. have been turned upside down. It was a chill- Australia and New Zealand share a unique ing reminder for all of us. bond. I am grateful to Senator Abetz for the I was heartened to see how the world constitutional law lesson—the reference to stopped and acknowledged the earthquake in New Zealand in our Constitution has escaped Christchurch. Many countries including Aus- me since I last did constitutional law in 1976. tralia offered their support in rescue opera- This bond goes beyond any legal document. tions. It made me proud to be Australian, to It is deep and heartfelt from the Anzac tradi- stand with our New Zealand friends. Our tion and beyond. I pay tribute to the Austra- thoughts and prayers are with the people of lian emergency personnel who travelled to New Zealand at this very difficult time. We New Zealand to help deal with the aftermath pray there will be some sense of steadiness of the disaster. They faced an incredibly dif- now in this time of need. ficult task. Finally, I would like to express Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) my sincere condolences to all those who (4.17 pm)—I too echo the sentiments of my have lost loved ones. Their pain must be ex- colleagues and join in supporting this motion traordinary. For what it’s worth, they need to to express my heartfelt condolences to the know that the people of Australia feel for people of New Zealand as they begin to re- them and will be there for them as long as cover from the devastating earthquake in they are rebuilding their communities and Christchurch. Following the previous condo- their lives. lence motion in relation to the disasters in Question agreed to, honourable senators Japan, we almost feel emotionally punch- standing in their places. drunk because of what has happened. It has NOTICES been just one disaster after another for our Presentation close friends in Japan and in New Zealand. I first learnt of the Christchurch earthquake Senator Milne to move on the next day of during Senate estimates. I was sitting at the sitting: back of the committee room talking to Mark

CHAMBER 1293 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

That the following matters be referred to the (b) considers that any genuine tax summit Rural Affairs and Transport References Commit- will properly review and report on Labor’s tee for inquiry and report by 8 April 2011: proposals to introduce a national mining (a) the science underpinning the technical tax and a carbon tax; and assumption that Apis cerana, the Asian (c) decides that no legislation to impose a honey bee, cannot be eradicated in Austra- national mining tax or a carbon tax be lia; considered by the Senate until after the (b) the science underpinning the assumption October tax summit has reported. that the Asian honey bee will not spread Senator Carol Brown to move on the throughout Australia; next day of sitting: (c) the science relating to the impacts of the That the Joint Standing Committee on Elec- spread of the Asian honey bee on biodi- toral Matters be authorised to hold a public meet- versity, pollination and the European ing during the sitting of the Senate on Wednesday, honey bee; and 23 March 2011, from 9.30 am to 10.45 am, to (d) the cost benefit of eradication of the Asian take evidence for the committee’s inquiry into the honey bee. conduct of the 2010 Federal Election and matters Senator Hanson-Young to move on the related thereto. next day of sitting: Senator Cormann to move on the next That the Senate— day of sitting: (a) notes that: That the Select Committee on the Scrutiny of New Taxes be authorised to hold a public meeting (i) women make up only 25 per cent of during the sitting of the Senate on Thursday, 24 board appointments in Australia, and March 2011, from 10.30 am to 12.30 pm. (ii) of that figure, only 10 per cent of the Senator Eggleston to move on the next Australian Stock Exchange 200 com- panies have female directors, and only day of sitting: 8 per cent have female executives; That the time for the presentation of the report (b) recognises that: of the Economics References Committee on the impacts of supermarket price decisions on the (i) women in the workforce face many dairy industry be extended to 20 April 2011. issues, including pay equity, the impact of unpaid work and family responsibili- Senator Wortley to move on the next day ties on their careers and the disparity in of sitting: retirement savings, and That the Joint Select Committee on Cyber (ii) improving the levels of female leader- Safety be authorised to hold a public meeting ship in corporate Australia will help to during the sitting of the Senate on Thursday, drive change in all of these areas; and 24 March 2011, from 9.30 am to 10.30 am. (c) calls on cross-party support to take the Senator Siewert to move on the next day lead and phase in meaningful quotas in of sitting: boardrooms around Australia. That the Senate— Senator Cormann to move on the next (a) notes: day of sitting: (i) deep sea bottom trawling can be a That the Senate— highly destructive fishing practice (a) notes the Government’s failure to keep its causing enormous damage to deep sea promise to hold a tax summit by 30 June corals, rare and unique species, fish 2011; populations and sensitive bottom habi- tats,

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(ii) the Senate on 11 October 2006 unani- (ii) put in place a ban on all Australian mously endorsed the Australian Gov- bottom trawl fishing on seamounts and ernment position to put in place meas- other vulnerable marine ecosystems un- ures on protecting high seas biodiver- til it can be shown scientifically that sity through proposing a series of bans such fishing will not damage fragile on high seas bottom trawling, marine ecosystems, and (iii) in December 2006 the United Nations (iii) advocate and support a complete UN (UN) called on all fishing nations to ban on all high seas bottom trawling ban bottom trawling in vulnerable ma- until thorough scientific and publicly rine ecosystems, including seamounts, available assessments have been under- hydrothermal vents and cold water cor- taken and appropriate, effective con- als until it had been assessed that there servation and management objectives will be no significant adverse impacts are in place. and that in 2009 the UN General As- Senator Ludwig to move on the next day sembly reinforced the need for envi- of sitting: ronmental impact assessments of bot- tom fisheries on the high seas and to That the government business orders of the ensure that vessels do not engage in day relating to the National Vocational Education bottom fishing until such assessments and Training Regulator Bill 2010 [2011] and a have been carried out, related bill, and the National Vocational Educa- tion and Training Regulator (Consequential (iv) Australia has not yet completed scien- Amendments) Bill 2011 may be taken together tific environmental assessments for the for their remaining stages. South Pacific Ocean or the Southern Indian Ocean yet it allows Australian Senator Ludwig to move on the next day flagged vessels to undertake high seas of sitting: bottom trawl fishing in these areas, That the Wild Rivers (Environmental Man- which is in clear contravention of UN agement) Bill 2011 be referred to the Legal and resolutions which have been supported Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for by the Australian Government, and inquiry and report by 10 May 2011. (v) that in 2011 the UN General Assembly Senator Xenophon to move on the next will review actions taken by states, in- day of sitting: cluding Australia, to protect vulnerable marine ecosystems of the high seas That the following matter be referred to the from destructive fishing practices such Economics References Committee for inquiry and as bottom trawling; report by 30 June 2011: (b) expresses concern that the Australian The proposed acquisition of the Australian Government is failing to implement the Stock Exchange (ASX) by Singapore Exchange bipartisan policy of protecting the biodi- Limited (SGX), with particular reference to: versity of the high seas from destructive (a) whether such an acquisition would be in fishing practices such as bottom trawling; the national interest; and (b) whether the 15 per cent foreign ownership (c) urges the Government, as a matter of pri- cap on the ASX is appropriate; ority, to: (c) whether the revised proposed composition (i) complete and make public the required of the merged board and governance ar- scientific assessments for the South Pa- rangements (as announced on 15 February cific and Southern Indian oceans as a 2011) are appropriate; matter of priority,

CHAMBER 1295 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

(d) the Government of Singapore’s interest in I also table a statement of reasons justifying the SGX and it’s role in the proposed the need for this bill to be considered during merged entity; the sittings and seek leave to have the state- (e) what impact such an acquisition might ments incorporated in Hansard. have on Australia’s ability to attract in- Leave granted. vestment; and (f) any other related matters. The statements read as follows— Senator Bob Brown to move on the next APPROPRIATION BILL (No. 3) 2010-2011 day of sitting: APPROPRIATION BILL (No. 4) 2010-2011 That the Senate— Purpose of the Bills (a) notes the reported Chinese crackdown on The bills request legislative authority for expendi- democracy advocates in East Turkistan ture to be incurred in respect of 2010-2011. and Tibet following democratic protests in Reasons for Urgency the Middle East; and Appropriations proposed in the bills provide (b) asks the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr funding for expenditure that is required to imple- Rudd) to confirm with Chinese authori- ment decisions and funding adjustments, that ties: involve further expenditure in 2010-11, which (i) the substance of the charges leading to have been agreed since the 2010-11 Budget. Pas- the 2007 arrest of Mr Ablikim Abdiri- sage of the bills before the last day of the 2011 yim, the son of Uighur advocate Autumn Sittings will ensure continuity of the Ms Rebiya Kadeer, Government’s programs and the Common- wealth’s ability to meet its obligations as they fall (ii) whether Mr Abdiriyim has suffered due. Should passage not be granted in the 2011 prolonged solitary confinement and tor- Autumn Sittings, activities to be funded by the ture as reported by Amnesty Interna- bills may be deferred or significantly delayed. tional late in 2010, ————— (iii) whether Mr Abdiriyim has recently received medical treatment, and FAMILY ASSISTANCE LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (CHILD CARE REBATE) (iv) when Mr Abdiriyim is due to be re- BILL leased. Purpose of the Bill Senator FEENEY (Victoria— Parliamentary Secretary for Defence) (4.20 There has been a public commitment by the Gov- ernment to introduce fortnightly payment of the pm)—I give notice that, on the next day of Child Care Rebate from July 2011. sitting, I shall move: Reasons for Urgency That the provisions of paragraphs (5) to (8) of standing order 111 not apply to the following The Government made a pre-election commit- bills, allowing them to be considered during this ment to pay the Child Care Rebate fortnightly period of sittings: from July 2011. To give effect to this commit- ment, amendments to the timing and method of Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 2010-2011 rebate payments must be made to the family as- Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 2010-2011 sistance legislation. Family Assistance Legislation Amendment The Centrelink annual payment cycle for fami- (Child Care Rebate) Bill 2011 lies’ entitlements commences on 1 July each fi- National Vocational Education and Training nancial year and so enacting fortnightly payments Regulator (Consequential Amendments) Bill from the first week after 1 July 2011 is essential 2011. for ease of administration for families, child care services and Centrelink. Passage of the bill in the

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2011 Autumn sittings will ensure that the July (Transitional Provisions) Bill 2010, which 2011 commencement date can be met. were introduced in the Senate on 26 Novem- ————— ber 2010; and • NATIONAL VOCATIONAL EDUCATION the National Vocational Education and Train- AND TRAINING REGULATOR ing Regulator (Consequential Amendments) (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS) BILL Bill 2011. Purpose of the Bill The Budget announcement regarding the NVR indicated that the regulator would commence On 7 December 2009 the Council of Australian regulatory operations in April 2011. In order to Governments (COAG) agreed to the creation of meet this start date it is important that the pack- the National Vocational Education and Training age of bills to establish the NVR and ensure that (VET) Regulator (NVR) and Standards Council. the new regulatory framework interacts properly The NVR will assist in ensuring that skills devel- with other regulatory frameworks and funding opment in Australia is delivered through a high programs is passed during the Autumn sittings. quality training system. By underpinning the quality of the system it will allow employers and Timely passage of these bills is important to sup- students to be confident about the outcomes of the port: training they receive. • referral and mirroring by the states The National Vocational Education and Training • appointment of senior officers of the new Regulator Bill 2010 and the National Vocational agency Education and Training Regulator (Transitional • considered transfer of staff and processes Provisions) Bill 2010, which were introduced into from the state and territory regulators to the the Senate on 26 November 2010, will form a new agency, and new statutory authority with responsibilities and • powers for the registration and audit of registered the reputation of Australia’s international training organisations (RTOs) that operate in mul- education sector. tiple jurisdictions, train international students, or Four states have indicated that they will refer operate in the territories or one of the referring powers to the Commonwealth to support the es- states and accreditation of courses in the VET tablishment of the NVR. Two states, Victoria and sector. The bills will also strengthen mechanisms Western Australia have indicated they will enact for the monitoring and enforcement of the regula- mirroring legislation. The territories also support tory framework. this proposal. Finalisation of the bills in the Au- The National Vocational Education and Training tumn sittings is important as it will facilitate Regulator (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2011 states and territories to make their own legislative is essential to ensure that the new regulatory arrangements to support the establishment of the framework interacts properly with other regula- NVR. tory frameworks and funding programs, including The bills establish a number of statutory officers the Education Services for Overseas Students Act and until the legislation passes and the com- 2000 and the VET FEE-Help component of the mencement of the NVR is assured, it will not be Higher Education Support Act 2003. possible to recruit senior officers. Reasons for Urgency Given that a range of regulatory functions will • The package of bills establishing the NVR transfer from state and territory bodies to the NV2 and ensuring that the new regulatory frame- it is important that detailed transition plans are work interacts properly with other regulatory developed to cover matters including the transfer frameworks and funding programs are: of staff from state and territory regulators to the NVR and new arrangements for the regulation of • the National Vocational Education and Train- RTOs. However, it is difficult to progress these ing Regulator Bill 2010 and the National Vo- discussions until the bills have been passed and a cational Education and Training Regulator start date for the NVR confirmed.

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The NVR and its strengthened monitoring and COMMITTEES enforcement powers are integral to the Govern- Legal and Constitutional Affairs ment’s response to the weaknesses that have been identified in regulation under both the Australian Legislation Committee Qualifications and Training Framework and the Meeting regulatory framework for international education. Senator McEWEN (South Australia) The NVR also requires a number of legislative (4.23 pm)—by leave—At the request of instruments in order to be fully operational. These Senator Crossin, I move: legislative instruments cannot be laid before the That the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Leg- Parliament until after the bills have passed. islation Committee be authorised to hold a public Senator McLucas to move on the next meeting during the sitting of the Senate today day of sitting: from 5.30 pm until 6.30 pm to take evidence for That, in accordance with section 5 of the Par- the committee’s inquiry into the Australian Capi- liament Act 1974, the Senate approves the pro- tal Territory (Self-Government) Amendment posal by the National Capital Authority for capital (Disallowance and Amendment Power of the works within the Parliamentary Zone relating to Commonwealth) Bill 2010 together with the the installation of artwork known as ‘The Prime amendments on sheet no. 7031 circulated by the Ministers’. Australian Greens. LEAVE OF ABSENCE Question agreed to. Senator PARRY (Tasmania) (4.21 pm)— Gambling Reform Committee by leave—I move: Meeting That leave of absence be granted to Senator Senator McEWEN (South Australia) Boswell and Senator Fierravanti Wells for the (4.23 pm)—by leave—At the request of remainder of this week on account of personal Senator Crossin, I move: reasons. That the Joint Select Committee on Gambling Question agreed to. Reform be authorised to hold a private meeting BUSINESS otherwise than in accordance with standing order 33(1) during the sitting of the Senate on Tuesday, Rearrangement 22 March 2011 from 4 pm. Senator McEWEN (South Australia) Question agreed to. (4.22 pm)—by leave—At the request of Privileges Committee Senator Crossin, I move: Reference That the time for the presentation of the report of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legisla- Senator PARRY (Tasmania) (4.24 pm)— tion Committee on the Australian Capital Terri- On behalf of Senator Johnston, I move: tory (Self-Government) Amendment (Disallow- (1) That the following matter be referred to the ance and Amendment Power of the Common- Committee of Privileges for inquiry and re- wealth) Bill together with the amendments on port: The adequacy and appropriateness of sheet no. 7031 circulated by the Australian current guidance and advice available to of- Greens be extended to 28 March 2011. ficers giving evidence to Senate committees Question agreed to. and when providing information to the Sen- ate and to senators, including: (a) the adequacy and applicability of gov- ernment guidelines and instructions; (b) the procedural and legal protections af- forded to those officers;

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1298

(c) the awareness among agencies and offi- nomic and community development to Aboriginal cers of the extent of the Senate’s power and Torres Strait Islander people in the 18 years to require the production of information since its introduction. and documents; and By introducing this Bill and any further reforms (d) the awareness among agencies and offi- in the future we intend to contribute construc- cers of the nature of relevant advice and tively to a debate about native title reform that protections. can ultimately lead to simpler legislation which (2) That, in undertaking the inquiry, the commit- produces more meaningful outcomes in a more tee may consider the evidence and records of timely fashion for all those involved. the Committee of Privileges appointed in the In this first Bill we have sought to address some previous parliament on a related matter, re- of the ‘low-hanging fruit’ of native title reform – ferred on 23 June 2010. by targeting some of the areas of native title law Question agreed to. where relatively simple amendments have been identified that could have far-reaching implica- NATIVE TITLE AMENDMENT tions for addressing some of the current barriers (REFORM) BILL 2011 to effective native title outcomes … essentially First Reading cutting a bit of a path through what Justice Kirby describes as the “impenetrable jungle”1 of native Senator SIEWERT (Western Australia) title litigation. (4.25 pm)—I move: Almost two decades after the introduction of the That the following bill be introduced: A Bill NTA it is fair to say that native title has failed to for an Act to amend the Native Title Act 1993 to deliver on its promises – as explicitly state in the further the interests of Aboriginal and Torres Preamble to the Act, and in its Objects. Strait Islander Australians, and for related pur- poses. The Preamble states that: Question agreed to. “The people of Australia intend: (a) to rectify the consequences of past injustices Senator SIEWERT (Western Australia) by the special measures contained in this (4.25 pm)—I present the bill and move: Act… for securing the adequate advance- That this bill may proceed without formalities ment and protection of Aboriginal peoples and be now read a first time. and Torres Strait Islanders; and Question agreed to. (b) to ensure that Aboriginal peoples and Torres Bill read a first time. Strait Islanders receive the full recognition and status within the Australian nation to Second Reading which history, their prior rights and interests, Senator SIEWERT (Western Australia) and their rich and diverse culture, fully enti- (4.25 pm)—I present the explanatory memo- tle them to aspire.” randum and move: We hope that by the time we reach the twentieth anniversary of the NTA in 2013 the process of That this bill be now read a second time. native title reform will be seriously underway, I seek leave to have the second reading and we will be able to see native title delivering speech incorporated in Hansard. on some of the seemingly forgotten promises Leave granted. contained in the preamble to and objects of the NTA. The speech read as follows— In practice, the people who the Act recognises The Native Title Amendment (Reform) Bill 2011 and describes as “…the most disadvantaged begins to address the failure of the Native Title group is society…” as a consequence of the dis- Act 1993 (NTA) to deliver on its initial intent to possession of their lands, have had to rely on one provide meaningful rights and a basis for eco-

CHAMBER 1299 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 of the longest and most complex pieces of Austra- The former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd for in- lian legislation to try to “…secure their advance- stance, spoke of the capacity for respect for native ment…” and to recognise and protect (not estab- title to provide a sturdy foundation for durable lish) their pre-existing rights. economic and social outcomes in his Apology 3 In nearly two decades since its introduction only a speech. handful of native title claims have been resolved, It is a tragic shame that neither his government, with many of these being in remote areas which nor to date its successor, has done anything to had been of little interest to European colonists. seek to strengthen and facilitate recognition of the For the majority of our Aboriginal and Torres native title rights of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Strait Islander people, particularly those in urban Islander Australians to help make that vision a areas and regional centres, native title has offered reality. Instead the only changes to native title little and delivered less. laws we have seen in these two terms of Labor Meanwhile the promised complimentary meas- Government have been those that either dimin- ures have also been a grave disappointment – the ished native title rights or at the very least have land fund has only been able to help out a limited failed to enhance the capacity of traditional own- number of communities, and the social justice ers to participate in securing meaningful out- package never eventuated. comes. It is clear that in the application and judicial in- This of course comes on the back of over a dec- terpretation of the NTA a huge gap has emerged ade of Coalition Government under John Howard between these original promises and intentions, that systematically wound back the rights of In- and the on-the-ground experience of Aboriginal digenous Australians, diminished native title and Torres Strait Islander communities seeking to rights, and saw the scrapping of all the existing have their native title rights recognised and pro- avenues for representation and decision making tected. with the removal of ATSIC. Justice Kirby characterised the barriers to the The challenge for this government in moving recognition of native title rights as comparable to forward to make the vision of the apology a real- an impenetrable jungle, saying: ity, is to put aside the paternalism of the How- ard/Brough years and to actively engage Aborigi- “It would be easy for the judicial explorer to be- nal communities in policy development, decision come confused and lost in the undergrowth to making and community development instead. which rays of light rarely penetrate. Discovering This also means recognising, as the Cape York the path through this jungle requires navigational Land Council put it – that meaningful respect for skills of a high order. Necessarily, they are costly native title as a valuable property right is part of to procure and time consuming to deploy. The the solution … not an impediment.”4 legal advance that commenced with Mabo v Queensland, or perhaps earlier, has now attracted The impetus for reform such difficulties that the benefits intended for The impetus for this bill arose from the interac- Australia’s Indigenous peoples in relation to na- tions with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander tive title land and waters are being channelled Australians and native title experts that took place into costs of administration and litigation that in and around the 2009 inquiry of the Senate leave everyone dissatisfied and many disap- Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional pointed.”2 Affairs into the Native Title Amendment Bill There are many who still believe that the recogni- 2009. A Bill which in and of itself had little to do tion of rights to land, culture and resources with reforming native title to deliver better out- through Native Title could provide a strong and comes. sustainable basis for ‘advancement’ by underwrit- The discussions that took place in around that ing and enabling community and economic de- Senate inquiry crystallised many of my long- velopment. standing concerns with the NTA which lead to a

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1300 continuing dialog on broader native title reform attributed to Mr. Calma and to others, I take full that has ultimately led to these reforms. responsibility for the way they have been inter- At the time of the introduction of that 2009 bill, preted as legislative amendments. I commend the the Attorney General Robert McClelland stated work of the former Commissioner and thank him that the intent of the Australian Government in sincerely for his efforts. introducing the bill was “…achieving more nego- I would also like to thank the native title experts, tiated native title outcomes in a more timely, ef- Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander organisa- fective and efficient fashion”5. tions, land councils and rep bodies that have con- The vast majority of the evidence tended to that tributed their thoughts, ideas and comments to us Senate inquiry supported the need for native title in response to our inquiries and as part of the reform that would achieve more effective native consultation process we undertook around the title outcomes in a more timely and resource effi- discussion paper and draft amendments proposing cient manner but disagreed with the Attorney these reforms. General’s suggestion that the Government’s re- Implementing the UN Declaration of the forms came anywhere near achieving those out- Rights of Indigenous Peoples comes. One of the issues we have sought to address in the As Tony McAvoy of the National Native Title first of our native title reforms is the application Council put it at the time: of the principles outlined in the UN Declaration “…the amendments that are proposed in this of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (‘the Decla- amendment bill are not controversial. They may ration’). make some small difference but they are not go- In addressing the High Level Segment of the ing to make any vast change in the way in which United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva native title matters are dealt with. There is not recently (28 February 2011) Foreign Minister going to be any rush of settlement of native title (and Former Prime Minister) Kevin Rudd spoke applications as a result of any of these amend- with pride about the decision of his government ments. “ to support the Declaration on the Rights of In- The submissions to that inquiry identified a num- digenous Peoples (DRIP), declaring that Australia ber of other possible reforms to the NTA that also seeks to reflect these principles in our deal- promised to address the barriers to timely and ings with Australia’s own Indigenous peoples. meaningful native title outcomes and went be- So far the Australian Government has not yet yond the narrow agenda of the Government’s sought to reflect the principles of the UN Declara- 2009 bill. These included addressing the ‘burden tion in legislation or in native title law, or to give of proof’ through a rebuttable presumption of meaningful consideration as to how they might continuity6, strengthening the requirements of play a role in the development of government parties to ‘negotiate in good faith’, and raising the policy or the application of government pro- threshold on extinguishment, among others. grams. Many of the issues raised in this inquiry were The Leader of the Opposition, Tony Abbott has further discussed and developed in the 2009 Na- also recently professed a desire to see at least tive Title Report of the Human Rights and Equal some of the provisions of the Declaration of Opportunities Commission by the then Social Rights in Australian Law. In introducing his Wild Justice Commissioner Tom Calma. This report Rivers Private Member’s Bill, Tony Abbott made made an important series of recommendations for direct reference to the Declaration, to the right of native title reform, many of which have provided Indigenous peoples to own, use, develop and con- the basis for the reforms proposed within this bill. trol their lands, and to enshrining the absolute I note that this bill does not cover all of the re- necessity of consent by Aboriginal people to deci- forms recommended by Tom Calma, and includes sions that affect their lands. However, the manner a number of measures that he did not discuss at in which his Wild Rivers Bill seeks to put into the time. While many of the good ideas can be practice the principle of ‘prior informed consent’

CHAMBER 1301 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 for Aboriginal people in the Cape York region is I acknowledge that there is a need for the Parlia- not consistent with the way these rights are for- ment and the nation to have a debate about the mulated within the Declaration. meaning and implementation of these rights. I The key point is that the UN Declaration on the hope that debate of this bill can make a useful Rights of Indigenous Peoples is very clearly in- contribution to the ongoing debate about the rec- tended to describe and evoke universal rights that ognition and implementation of human rights in necessarily apply to all Indigenous peoples. It is Australia. inconsistent with the declaration and the wider I note that the Objects of the NTA serve to pro- principles of the universality of human rights to vide some direction to the Courts as to the inten- seek to apply the principle of prior informed con- tions of the Parliament as to how the Act as a sent only to a limited group of people (communi- whole should be interpreted. Including the princi- ties on Cape York) or only to a particular deci- ples of the Declaration within the Objects does sions (to veto a declaration of a ‘wild river’ con- not mandate or compel a particular outcome or servation area). interpretation. If the Leader of the Opposition is sincere in his In relation to the interpreting the meaning of ‘free commitment to give traditional owners a right to prior informed consent’ and what in practice prior informed consent on development and con- ‘consent’ means when applied to native title deci- servation decisions which affect their lands and sions, I believe it is important not to confuse the livelihoods, then the most appropriate and mean- consideration of whether meaningful consent has ingful way to do so would be in a manner which been achieved within a decision-making process applies universally to all traditional owners – that with a simple right of veto. is, by direct amendment of the Native Title Act – The guide to the Declaration on the Rights of and not through laws that only apply to one spe- Indigenous Peoples produced by the Australian cific region and one type of decision. Human Rights Commission says that: To implement the Declaration of Rights, Item 1 of “Consent means we should be consulted and be the Native Title Amendment (Reform) Bill 2011 able to participate in an honest and open process inserts an additional Object of the Act that refer- to achieve an outcome all parties are happy with. ences the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous This means that we should be engaged in all lev- Peoples, and asserts that the intention of the Par- els of programs, policy and legislation that affects liament in the manner in which the NTA is ap- us from design and implementation through to plied and interpreted is for it to implement key monitoring and evaluation.”7 principles of the Declaration, including: The rights addressed within the Declaration (such • Free, prior and informed consent of indige- as the concept of ‘free prior informed consent’) nous peoples in matters affecting them are to my mind clearly intended as part of a wider • Full and direct consultation and participation human rights framework – in the same way in of indigenous peoples concerned which other human rights are already acknowl- • The right of indigenous peoples to their tra- edged and addressed in Australian law. ditional lands, territories and natural re- Strengthening heritage protection sources Item 2 of this bill addresses a problem with the • Demonstrated respect for indigenous cultural way the NTA interacts with Commonwealth, State practices, traditions, laws and institutions and Territory heritage protection acts. • Reparation for injury to or loss of indigenous This issue was brought to my attention by the interests Yamatji Marlpa Aboriginal Corporation in re- • Non-discrimination against the interests of sponse to my discussion paper and exposure draft, indigenous peoples, and and I am grateful for their input. • The right of all peoples including indigenous The amendment seeks to address an outstanding peoples to self-determination. issue with Section 24MB – which sets out how, as

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1302 part of the freehold test for grants of tenures, tions of land. The implements a recommendation there are two main conditions that must be satis- of the 2009 Native Title Report and improves the fied before the Subdivision applies and a future future act regime. act can be validly granted. The right to negotiate also applies offshore The first is the “non-discrimination” principle that This item seeks to improve procedural rights over the future act could equally have been done to offshore areas for native title holders. In doing so ordinary freehold land – which is self- it seeks to address the contradiction between the explanatory. existing provisions of Section 26(3) of the NTA The second condition relates to whether there is (that limits the right to negotiate to acts that relate heritage protection legislation that applies to any to a place on the landward side of the mean high- sites or areas within the affected land that are water mark) and the fact that native title rights “…of particular significance to Aboriginal peo- have been recognised to exist in offshore areas.9 ples of Torres Strait Islanders in accordance with 8 This amendment is consistent with the views ex- their traditions.” pressed by the Attorney General Robert Obviously the intent of Section 24MD is to en- McClelland, who stated in 2009 that: sure that, before a future act is permitted on na- “When it comes to behavioural change, I accept tive title land, the heritage values of any areas of that the Australian Government has to lead by particular cultural significance are protected. example. I believe we are doing just that. For However, as it stands, the way this provision is example, last year I announced that the Govern- worded means that the mere existence of applica- ment will take a more flexible approach to recog- ble state heritage legislation would satisfy these nising native title in Australia’s territorial waters. criteria and permit the future act – irrespective of The Australian Government now accepts that whether the application of those state heritage native title can exist out to the limits of the mod- laws will actually provide effective protection of ern territorial sea, generally 12 nautical miles those sites of cultural significance. from the territorial sea baseline. Given that the As my colleagues may be aware, heritage laws Government is involved in all claims over off- shore waters, this approach should help bring vary substantially in their effectiveness and appli- 10 cation between jurisdictions. Yamatji Marlpa are about more negotiated settlements.” particularly concerned by the inadequacy of the The limitation of procedural rights under Section Western Australian Aboriginal Heritage Act 1972 26(3) that deny traditional owners a right to nego- and I share those concerns – having been aware tiate over future acts in offshore areas is clearly of a number of circumstances in the past where inconsistent with this recognition that native title these laws have failed to protect sites of great can exist up to 12 nautical miles out to sea, and so cultural and historical significance (such as pro- item 4 of the bill remedies this by repealing sec- tecting the world’s oldest petroglyphs on the Bur- tion 26(3) to remove this unnecessary contradic- rup Peninsula from industrial development). tion and allow traditional owners the right to ne- To this end I have sought to amend Section gotiate over acts that impact on their sea country. 24MD to allow the courts and decision makers to Strengthening good faith negotiations give consideration to the effectiveness of the rele- The future acts regime plays a crucial role in the vant Commonwealth, State or Territory heritage manner in which traditional owners are able to laws when considering whether the elements of exercise their native title rights, by governing the section 24 MD have been met. requirements placed on parties negotiating Compulsory acquisition does not imply extin- agreements concerning proposed activities. There guishment has been sustained criticism of the manner in Item 3 of the bill is a simple amendment to rein- which the future acts regime has led to protracted state the previous language in section 24MD(2)(c) and uncertain outcomes, and calls for the act to be in relation to the application of the non- amended to create stronger incentives for benefi- extinguishment principle to compulsory acquisi- cial agreements and achieve greater procedural

CHAMBER 1303 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 fairness by striking a better balance between na- negotiate in good faith for at least six months and tive title and non-native title interests. to use all reasonable efforts to come to an agree- To this end the amendments proposed in Items 5 ment about the conditions under which each of to 9 of this bill expand on the current require- the native title parties might agree to the proposed ments for parties to negotiate ‘in good faith’ in future act. relation to future acts. Item 6 inserts a new subsection 31 (1A) which Currently the burden of proof for proving the provides clarification of what the requirement to absence of good faith in negotiations is on the use ‘all reasonable efforts’ when negotiating in native title party, rather than the proponent of a good faith really means. proposed future act. This appears procedurally The good faith negotiating requirements are one unfair as it is in effect the proponent who is effec- of the few legal safeguards that native title parties tively asserting that they have negotiated in good have to protect their native title interests under the faith for the required period when they apply for a NTA. While Section 31 of the NTA seeks to matter to be taken to arbitration. oblige the parties to negotiate in good faith during Item 5 of this bill seeks to strengthen the re- the negotiating period, in practice it is virtually quirement to negotiate in good faith, in line with impossible for claimants to establish that a pro- the recommendations of the Native Title Report ponent is not acting in good faith. This is borne 200911. out by the decision of the Full Federal Court in the matter of FMG Pilbara vs. Cox12 - a decision The NTA as it stands prevents parties from resort- which substantially watered down the right to ing to an arbitral body, such as the National Na- negotiate, to the extent that any negotiation in tive Title Tribunal, for a period of six months which the native title party cannot demonstrably from the issue of a notice that the government prove bad faith is effectively considered to be a intends to grant a mining tenement. This fixed good faith negotiation. negotiating period does not take into account the relative scope or difficulty of the proposed nego- Item 6 strengthens the requirement to negotiate in tiations – it is the same irrespective of whether good faith by including explicit criteria for the the parties have established previous agreements type of negotiation activities that are indicative of or are meeting for the first time, and irrespective good faith. of whether they are negotiating a single act or Item 7 reverses the onus of proof so that the party attempting to conclude an overarching agreement that is asserting good faith is the one that is re- on a ‘whole of claim’ basis. quired to prove it, by inserting a new subsection So on the one hand, parties who are undertaking 31(2). complex negotiations in a genuine attempt to Item 9 requires that a party may not apply to an make efficient use of their time and resources to arbitral body (under subsection 31(1)) until the secure wide-scale agreements over large areas of party has first demonstrated good faith negotia- land and multiple future acts need to do so within tions have taken place in compliance with sec- the six month limit (irrespective of the number of tions 31(1) to 31 (2A). negotiations and the lack of resources of the na- Allowing profit sharing and royalties in arbi- tive title representative body). On the other hand, tration proponents who are not inclined to enter into se- rious negotiations with native title holders can Under the current provisions of the NTA agree- ments struck during the six month good faith ne- effectively stonewall and sit on their hands for six months, knowing they can then force the matter gotiating period concerning future acts such as mining or compulsory acquisition can include to arbitration without any requirement to demon- strate they have made all reasonable efforts to provisions for royalties or profit sharing. This is an important provision for traditional owners and come to agreements. their communities as it provides a basis on which To this end Item 5 of this bill substitutes a new they can promote and enhance the economic and paragraph 31 (1) (b) which requires parties to social development of their communities through

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1304 judicious use of their native title rights and inter- any time prior to a determination, the applicant ests. and a government party can make an agreement However, if an agreement is not reached during that the extinguishment (or possible extinguish- this period and the matter is referred to the NNTT ment) of native title rights and interests can be for arbitration, the provisions of section 38(2) disregarded. actually prohibit the NNTT from making a deter- The current breadth and permanence of the extin- mination that an act may be done subject to con- guishment of native title through the provisions of ditions of profit-sharing or the payment of royal- the NTA is arguably unjustifiable, unnecessary ties. This means that native title interests are and in breach of Australia’s human rights obliga- placed at an unfair disadvantage in negotiations, tions.15 as the proponent knows that if they are not in- Chief Justice French provides the example of the clined to share profits or pay royalties at the level vesting of a nature reserve on Crown land as one they propose, they can simply force the issue to act which could be determined to have extin- arbitration. This creates a fundamental inequality guished native title, where it would make sense to and places considerable pressure on native title be able to disregard extinguishment and provide holders to conclude an agreement within the ne- for an agreement between the traditional owners gotiation period. and the state to recognise native title rights in the The current Minister for Indigenous Affairs Jenny interests of managing that reserve.16 Macklin has indicated that she strongly believes Section 47 of the NTA provides a model for coex- that Indigenous communities should be able to istence of native title and other rights on pastoral use their native title rights to leverage economic 13 leases. The amendments in Item 11 are consistent development . The Victorian Government has with the current application of the NTA, and also recommended that the NTA be amended to merely allow the existing coexistence provisions allow the arbitral body to make determinations 14 to be extended to allow extinguishment to be dis- about the profit sharing . regarded with an agreement in a wider range of Item 10 of the bill substitutes a new subsection circumstances. 38(2) which provides that profit sharing condi- Shifting burden of proof tions including the payment of royalties may be In practice, the bar for the recognition of native determined by the arbitral body in relation to fu- ture acts. This amendment allows that when a title rights has been set too high – with the onus of proof of cultural continuity being placed on matter goes to arbitration similar conditions can be applied to those that may be agreed during Indigenous people, and with evidence standards effectively mandating a reliance on the written good faith negotiations – removing this disincen- tive for proponents to reach an agreement in good accounts of European colonists that denies the predominantly oral nature of Indigenous cultures. faith and ensuring native title interests are not disadvantaged. As the Australian Human Rights Commission argued in its submission to the 2009 Senate In- Strengthening coexistence by disallowing ex- quiry: tinguishment Another area where the NTA has failed to deliver “It cannot be disputed that Indigenous peoples lived in Australia prior to colonisation and that is through the manner in which the bar on extin- guishment has been set too low. This has meant the Crown was responsible for the dispossession of Indigenous peoples throughout Australia. that in practice the principle of ‘coexistence’ of native title rights, which is clearly envisaged It has also been acknowledged by governments within the NTA, is too often brushed aside or over time through various policies, laws and ignored. statements of recognition, including the creation Item 11 of the proposed amendments seeks to of land rights regimes and other mechanisms, that Indigenous peoples are the Traditional Owners of address this issue, by providing a mechanism to disregard extinguishment – which means that, at the land.

CHAMBER 1305 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

It is in this context that the Commission argues unchanged. This ignores the fact that by their very that it is unjust and inequitable to continue to nature the cultures of Australia’s first nations place the demanding burden of proving all the were geared towards adapting to and surviving in elements required under the Native Title Act on an often harsh environment, not to mention the the claimants.” substantial efforts and resources expended by The issue of prior occupation and hence the pre- successive governments aimed to force or en- existence of native title rights is not being ques- courage changes in behaviour. tioned (as the preamble to the NTA readily ac- This limited and unrealistic definition of ‘tradi- knowledges) and so under these circumstances it tional’ means that in practice it is far too easy for seems to be ‘fundamentally discriminatory’17 and a respondent to rebut the presumption of continu- a gross injustice to place the burden of proof upon ity by establishing a law or custom is no longer the dispossessed. This is particularly true when practices in exactly the same way it was at the we consider that it is State and Commonwealth point of colonisation. A more sensible an realistic Governments that have granted the rights that definition of traditional culture would be one that have lead to the possible extinguishment of native “…encompasses laws, customs and practices that title, and that it is those governments who hold remain identifiable through time”21 and allows at many of the historic records needed to establish law for an appropriate level of adaptation to the connection. changing circumstances brought about by coloni- The intent of providing for a rebuttable presump- sation. tion of continuity is to shift the burden of proof in The narrow application section 223 has created a way that encourages government parties (who insurmountable barriers to cultural resurgence… must now take on the role of adducting evidence as clearly seen by the Noongar, Larrakia, Won- in their archives to rebut presumptions) to be gatha and Yorta Yorta cases. In practice the policy more inclined to settle claims with a strong pros- decision to make a narrow interpretation of conti- pect of success – rather than dragging them out in nuity and traditional practice under s223 in the the Federal Court as it is currently entitled to do. Yorta Yorta case22 has created a situation which Item 12 of our proposed amendments to the NTA directly contradicts the original Objects of the seeks to address this issue, by putting into legisla- NTA – in that it means that there is no opportu- tion amendments suggested by Chief Justice nity to raise the role of past injustices in the inter- French18 that reverse the burden of proof to create ruption of cultural continuity in an Act whose a rebuttable presumption of continuity. every intent is to provide remedy to those injus- tices. Moving to resolve more native title cases by con- sent determination could result in timelines being Where a group has revitalised its culture, laws ‘…streamlined beyond recognition…’ and costs and customs by actively seeking out and recover- being ‘…reduced out of sight’19. However, as the ing those elements of cultural continuity driven 2009 Native Title Report points out20, a respon- underground by dispossession, forced relocation, dent would still be able to defeat a native title or the removal of children – a comparatively claim due to the operation of section 223, by pro- minimal interruption to the sharing of that culture viding appropriate evidence. across the claimant group should not provide a sufficient basis to prevent the recognition of na- Definition of ‘traditional’ tive title rights. In practice, the manner in which ‘traditional’ cul- This state of affairs is clearly at odds both with ture is defined by section 223 of the Act fails to the stated intentions of the NTA and Australia’s recognise the dynamic and living nature of In- international human rights commitments. On this digenous Australian cultures. Instead it seeks to basis it would be sensible to empower the Court freeze culture in some pre-colonial past, which to disregard any interruption in the observance of defines traditional culture based on a snap-shot of traditional laws and customs where it is in the cultural practices at the time of European settle- interests of justice to do so. ment and an expectation that they should continue

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1306

Item 13 of our proposed amendments inserts new the rights of native title holders in this or any subsections 223 (1A) (1B) (1C) and (1D) which other matter, and have largely confined them- provide clarification of the definition of ‘tradi- selves to amendments to the act that reduce the tional’ to ensure that the interpretation of what rights of native title holders. counts as an ongoing Indigenous culture and law The Leader of the Opposition, Tony Abbott re- is based on a more realistic understanding of the cently spoke of his “...determination to ensure maintenance and continuity of traditional prac- that the Aboriginal people of Australia finally get tices and cultural values over time. This should a fair go where their land is concerned…” and help ensure that communities who have main- went on to say that “…the land which Aboriginal tained a strong connection to their lands, laws, people have secured is obviously a cultural and cultural practices and values will not have their spiritual asset bit it should also be an economic recognition discounted based on changes which asset.” On the face of it, it would seem in princi- do not fundamentally alter the core of their cul- ple that there is cross-party support for these tural identity as traditional custodians of their measures. land and sea country. To this end the bill provides that native title rights Commercial rights and interests and interests can be of a commercial nature, re- In practice, the rights native title have delivered moving what is an unnecessary impediment to have also not been strong or complete enough to Indigenous economic development. effectively provide ‘for the advancement’ of tradi- Conclusion tional owners or to provide a basis for economic The reforms in this bill put forward clear and and cultural development … as they have not specific measures that address a number of key provided an unambiguous and exploitable right to areas of interest to native title claimants. land and resources. They address the barriers claimants face in mak- Currently there is no mechanism to provide for ing the case to demonstrate their pre-existing the recognition of commercial rights to enable native title rights and interests; they tackle some agreement making that delivers on the stated in- of the procedural issues within the future acts tent of the NTA “…for securing the adequate regime that restrict the ability of native title hold- advancement … of Aboriginal peoples and Torres ers to assert and exercise their native title rights; Strait Islanders” by providing a vehicle for social and they include in the objects of the Native Title and economic development. Furthermore, courts Act consideration of the principles of the Declara- have appeared to take a view of customary In- tion of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. digenous laws that does not properly recognise existing cultural economies and effectively dis- Native title has the potential to play an important tinguishes between customary or cultural rights role as a basis for the economic and community and commercial ones. development of those of Australia’s first peoples who have been able to maintain their connection This is at odds with a wealth of existing evidence to their traditional lands and culture in the face of of customary trade rights and practices which dispossession. were based in customary rights to resources – including aquaculture, trade in clay and ochres It is clear that the original intention of the Parlia- and turtle shells, as well as crafts such as baskets ment was that the Native Title Act would ‘rectify and spears. It also includes strong evidence of a the consequences of past injustices’ and secure long-term trade relationship with Macassan fish- their ‘adequate advancement and protection’ … ermen from Indonesia. however it is equally clear that in its application this complex area of law has failed to deliver on The current Minister for Indigenous Affairs Jenny those hopes. Macklin has stated that the Government considers that Indigenous communities should be able to The strong relationship of Aboriginal and Torres use their native title rights to leverage economic Strait Islander peoples with their land and sea development.23 However, as yet this government country should provide a firm basis on which to has not sought to amend the NTA to strengthen

CHAMBER 1307 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 strengthen their culture and build their future. To 17 Les Malezer, 2009 Mabo Lecture. make this happen native title reform is needed. 18 Justice Robert French, Lifting the burden of The Native Title Amendment (Reform) Bill 2011 is native title – some modest proposals for im- an important first step on that path – I commend it provement, Federal Court Native Title User to the Senate. Group, 2008, page 1. —————— 19 Justice North & T Goodwin, Disconnection the 1 Justice Kirby in Wilson v Anderson 2002, High gap between law and justice in Native Title, 2009. Court of Australia 29 (002) 213 CLR 401. 20 HREOC, Native Title Report 2009, Page 82. 2 Justice Kirby in Wilson v Anderson 2002, High 21 Native Title Report 2009, p85. Court of Australia 29 (002) 213 CLR 401. 22 Yorta Yorta v Victoria 2002, High Court of Aus- 3 Hon. Kevin Rudd, Apology speech, Address to tralia. the Opening of Parliament, 13 Feb 2008. 23 Hon. J Macklin, Beyond Mabo: Native title and 4 Cape York Land Council, Submission 6, Senate closing the gap speech at 2008 Mabo Lecture. Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Senator SIEWERT—I seek leave to con- Affairs inquiry into the Native Title Amendment tinue my remarks later. Bill 2009, p6. 5 Leave granted; debate adjourned. Attorney General Robert McClelland, Second Reading speech, 19 March 2009, Hansard. ASIAN HONEY BEE 6 As recommended by now Chief Justice Robert Senator COLBECK (Tasmania) (4.26 French, see Chief Justice RS French, Lifting the pm)—I move: burden of native title: Some modest proposals for That the Senate— improvement (Speech delivered to the Federal Court Native Title User Group, Adelaide, 9 July (a) notes that: 2008). (i) the incursion of Apis cerana, the Asian 7 Community Guide to the UN Declaration on the honey bee, was discovered in May 2007 Rights of Indigenous Peoples, AHRC 2010 p 6. near Cairns, Queensland, 8 NTA1993 s24MB(1)(c)(ii). (ii) Apis cerana has the capacity to devas- tate the native bee and commercial 9 HREOC, Native Title Report 2009, p 106. honey bee populations in Australia, put-  ŒÅ•Ž••Š— ݝ˜›—Ž¢ Ɏ—Ž›Š• ™ŽŽŒ‘ ˜ ting at risk: ‘Ž ‘’› Ž˜’Š’— Š’ŸŽ ’•Ž Ș›ž– (A) $4 billion worth of agricultural ‘™ Š˜›—Ž¢Ž—Ž›Š• ˜Ÿ Šž produce pollinated by the commer- 11 cial honey bee, as Apis cerana is Pages 104-107. incapable of domestication, leaving 12 FMG Pilbara v Cox (2009) FCAFC 49 para 21. Australian agriculture reliant on in- HREOC Native Title Report 2009, Chapter 1. cidental pollination, and 13 J Macklin, Beyond Mabo: Native title and clos- (B) the $80 million Australian honey ing the gap. Speech introducing 2008 Mabo Lec- industry, ture, James Cook University, 21 May 2008. (iii) Apis cerana: 14 Victorian Government, Submission on the Aus- (A) is a carrier of the varroa mite, an- tralian Government discussion paper Proposed other major threat to Australia’s minor native title amendments 2008, p7. bee populations and the honey in- http://www.ag.gov.au dustry, 15 HREOC Native Title Report 2002. (B) has the potential to become a pest 16 Chief Justice French, Lifting the burden of Na- as virulent and damaging to the tive Title, 2009. Australian environment as the rab-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1308

bit, cane toad and European wasp, Senator COLBECK (Tasmania) (4.28 and pm)—Madam Acting Deputy President, I (C) poses a major threat to biodiversity seek leave to make a short statement. through negative impacts on native The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— flora and fauna, and There being no objection, leave is granted (iv) the incursion of Apis cerana remains for two minutes, Senator Colbeck. contained in a radius of approximately 50 to 55km of Cairns; and Senator COLBECK (Tasmania) (4.28 pm)—I am really very disappointed in the (b) calls on the Government to develop, coordi- nate and implement a program to eradicate government’s attitude towards this issue. The Apis cerana from Australia. minister’s office rang my office last week to talk about dealing with this as an issue. The Senator FEENEY (Victoria—Parlia- issues that they raised with me had to do mentary Secretary for Defence) (4.26 pm)— Madam Acting Deputy President, I seek with the size of the honey industry and the leave to make a short statement in relation to size of the pollination sector impacted by the the motion. pest. There was no discussion at all, as part of that process, about the eradication of the The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT Asian bee. To characterise my motion as fac- (Senator Moore)—There being no objec- tually incorrect I find, in that context, quite tion, leave is granted for two minutes, Sena- disappointing and I reject it. tor Feeney. The reality is that the government have Senator FEENEY (Victoria—Parlia- not looked at the science in relation to this. mentary Secretary for Defence) (4.26 pm)— They did not even discuss with the experts, The government opposes Senator Colbeck’s the CSIRO, the issue of eradication. I have motion on the basis that the motion is factu- had a number of representations made to me ally incorrect. The Asian Honey Bee Na- since this motion became public about the tional Management Group has found that eradication of the Asian bee. I think the gov- eradication of the Asian honey bee is no ernment’s attitude to this is quite disappoint- longer technically feasible. Responsibility ing. They are hiding behind, I think, bureauc- for the eradication or management of pests is racy and technicality. If the government not solely a federal responsibility, but rather genuinely wanted to deal with this issue they a shared responsibility with the state and could do it. All they need to do is allocate territory governments and the industries that some resource. Yes, there is a process for benefit from any management actions. A co- eradication that is jointly managed by the operative approach between the states and states and the Commonwealth, and it is true territories, Commonwealth government and that some of the states involved in it do not impacted industries is the only way to effec- want to continue funding the process. If the tively manage this pest. The government is government wanted to make an allocation of working collaboratively with state and terri- some resource towards the eradication of the tory governments and the Australian honey Asian bee they could do it. It is only a matter industry and with industries reliant on polli- of willingness; that is all that is required. For nation to develop, coordinate and implement the government to characterise my motion as a strategy to manage the Asian honey bee. factually incorrect, I reject completely. I would urge them to work with the bee indus- try and with the agricultural sector—and we

CHAMBER 1309 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 can debate the size of the impact of the Asian ceived a letter from Senator Fifield propos- bee on that sector to our heart’s content—as ing that a definite matter of public impor- there is the capacity to deal with this. (Time tance be submitted to the Senate for discus- expired) sion, namely: Senator BOB BROWN (Tasmania— The Gillard Government’s continued failure to Leader of the Australian Greens) (4.30 accept responsibility for its broken promise not to pm)—Madam Acting Deputy President, I introduce a carbon tax. seek leave to make a short statement. I call upon those senators who approve of the The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— proposed discussion to rise in their places. Leave is granted for two minutes. More than the number of senators re- Senator BOB BROWN—The Australian quired by the standing orders having risen in Greens support this motion and we support their places— greater effort to eradicate the Asian honey The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— bee. It is something that we may well come I understand that informal arrangements have to regret if we do not increase the effort na- been made to allocate specific times to each tionally, as Senator Colbeck has said, to of the speakers in today’s debate. With the eradicate this pest before it extends way be- concurrence of the Senate, I shall ask the yond the limits, which the motion states, of clerks to set the clock accordingly. the vicinity of Cairns. Repeatedly in this na- Senator BIRMINGHAM (South Austra- tion we see pests being introduced and estab- lia) (4.33 pm)—It is a pleasure to lead the lishing, and it is costing a lot of money to debate on this outstanding submission of attempt to eradicate them with the effort then Senator Fifield’s in relation to the matter of being given up. The on-flowing cost to agri- public importance debate, which is to focus culture, to the economy, to wellbeing and to on and highlight the Gillard government’s the biodiversity of this country is enormous continued failure to accept responsibility for and sometimes incalculable. It is something its broken promise not to introduce a carbon about which the Greens believe there should tax. This is the most crucial of debates taking be a far greater national sense of protection, place in this parliament and in the nation at allocation of funding and resistance to this this present time. It is crucial because it will ongoing invasion. We are beyond the period go to the very heart of livelihoods and im- where invasions were deliberately produced pact on every Australian family and every as with the cane toad. We ought to be now Australian household not just next year or able, with the much greater surveillance we the year after but for many, many years to have in the year 2011, to take on a pest like come. It will place a burden on every Austra- this and, with much greater national re- lian family and every Australian household if sources, ensure that every possibility to this government gets its way in implement- eradicate it is undertaken. We support the ing this broken promise for many, many motion. years to come. Question agreed to. If we are talking about broken promises, it MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE is worth going back and looking at some of Carbon Pricing the words of the Prime Minister. I would like to start with the Prime Minister on the very The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT topic of broken promises. The Prime Minis- (Senator Moore)—The President has re-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1310 ter back in March of 2009, before she was down the barrel of that television camera Prime Minister, stated: when she said: I think when you go to an election and you give a There will be no carbon tax under the Govern- promise to the Australian people, you should do ment I lead. everything in your power to honour that promise. She followed it up a couple of days later in I am not sure what happened to that willing- the Australian, a day before the election, ness and desire to do everything in her power with a big headline and big statement, which to honour that promise. The Prime Minister was even more concise and with even fewer in this case appears to have done everything words: in her power and everything possible to I rule out a carbon tax. break that promise. We all know that politicians sometimes find Senator Feeney interjecting— ways to nuance their words and to put their Senator BIRMINGHAM—Senator words in terms that leave a little bit of wrig- Feeney wants to talk about the election out- gle room. The Prime Minister left no wriggle come. He knows that that is just a furphy. He room. The Prime Minister gave no nuance. knows full well, like everybody else, that the The Prime Minister made clear-cut categori- Australian Greens were always going to hold cal promises to the Australian people, prom- the balance of power in this chamber in this ises she now proposes to break. new parliament and that this government or As if this misleading was not bad enough, the opposition, whoever won the election, as if this mistruth was not bad enough going was going to have to deal with that reality. into the election, in trying to sell this carbon The Prime Minister knew it, everybody knew tax now and its impact on every Australian it, it was clear for all to see and she should family, the government is piling mistruth have realised that. If she thought she could upon mistruth. It seems every government not work with them on whatever it is that she minister is now going out there into the claims to have wanted, which during the community trying to run some type of con election campaign was little more than the job to convince people that this carbon tax great talkfest of the citizens’ assembly, then will not have the impact that anybody who she should not have made the promise that gives it a moment’s thought realises it will. she did make. Back when she was education Let us take Mr Crean, the Minister for minister she stated: Regional Australia, Regional Development ... if we want to debate promises made and prom- and Local Government who said the other ises delivered bring it on is what I say. day that: Well, she has that wish now in her life as We will return all of the money raised to people Prime Minister. We will debate promises through the tax mechanism. made and promises broken by this govern- He was suggesting very clearly in his state- ment, and we will debate them time and time ment that all the money raised by the carbon and time again because of their impact on the tax would go back to Australian families, Australian people. We debate them because Australian households and Australian people. the promises were so categorical and clear We know that is not true because today in cut. There could be no more clear-cut state- question time Senator Wong stood up and ment made in the election campaign than that said, ‘Well, some of it will go to industry and of the Prime Minister on the Channel 10 some of it will go to climate change meas- news, five days before the election, staring ures’—obviously things that Senator Milne

CHAMBER 1311 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 has on her wish list. In fact, at best 50 per What are we going to see from this gov- cent of the funds raised by this carbon tax ernment as this debate progresses? We will will somehow, in a great wealth redistribu- see that they will dig deep into the pockets of tion plan, be churned back around and given taxpayers once again to fund some govern- back to parts of the Australian community. ment advertising to try to get them out of Potentially most households will end up this, just as they did with the mining tax. We worse off under this plan. We know that be- are going to see it come around again on a cause much of the modelling was already climate change campaign or a carbon tax done in the CPRS debate. We know that the campaign. Do not shake your head, Senator type of prices that Professor Garnaut talked Feeney. You, of course, will probably be the about in his paper released last week—the architect of this advertising campaign, given paper that is clearly providing the template your background. You will be the one sitting for where the government will go, the paper there making sure that its political messages that is all anybody has to work on because are crafted because every dollar you spend as the government refuses to release any details a government on this carbon tax campaign themselves—will put up the price of electric- will be politically motivated. It will be en- ity by $300 per year per household at the tirely politically motivated. We will see at start of this process. We know there will po- least a $30 million campaign, if not more, tentially be an impact on petrol prices of 6c coming to taxpayers. to 7c per litre every time you fill up the car. But what did the Prime Minister once We know that this will flow through every- have to say about government funded adver- thing in the Australian economy, everything tising? She said: that every Australian does. Every time they Labor will end the abuse of taxpayer funded gov- go out of their home, every time they do vir- ernment advertising. tually anything within their home, they will She put that clearly in 2007 running into the pay a price for this. election campaign that year. They were her It is not just Mr Crean who is laying mis- words then. She said: truths upon mistruths in this. It is also the I am always worried when the Government takes Minister for Climate Change and Energy taxpayers’ money and uses it for its own politics, Efficiency, Mr Combet, when he proclaimed to try and save its political hide, rather than in the that he ‘does not expect any significant im- interests of the nation … pact on the overall cost of living out of our This is what this government is going to do. carbon price.’ That is quite clearly untrue. It will be yet another broken promise. It will Firstly, if there was no impact on the cost of be yet another mistruth told to the Australian living, why do you need a compensation people. They will spend millions of taxpayer mechanism? Secondly, it is quite clear that dollars to construct a political message about the compensation mechanism will only go to climate change and this carbon tax. It will all some Australian households and that many be to the ends of, to use the Prime Minister’s millions of them will be left worse off, that own words, trying to save their political hide. there will be a significant impact. So it is That is what it will be about—saving their mistruth after mistruth built, of course, upon political hide. the Prime Minister’s grandest mistruth of In 2007 she also said that many people them all. talked to her about how much they resented these taxpayer funded advertisements on

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1312 their TV screen every time they tried to could tick and flick anything through the watch a program. I believe Australians are all House of Representatives and tick and flick well aware how much their money is being anything through the Senate because they wasted through these advertisements. Mark had such a vast majority in both houses and my words, Acting Deputy President and there was very little or no scrutiny of legisla- Senator Feeney, when Australian people see tion. There was no accountability at any time these advertisements they will see through by that government. However, in this politi- them. They will see it as a waste of taxpayer cal climate in this country and at this point in money. They will know you are trying to time, we have a Prime Minister who is a implement a con job and they will know that very, very good negotiator, a very good lis- it is yet another mistruth from this govern- tener and a very good person at being able to ment, one of so many in this debate. The compromise our position while, at the same government is so unwilling to provide any time, getting the end result. We have proven detail or any certainty as to what on earth to the Australian people that we are a party they are proposing. that accepts climate change, that is prepared Senator CROSSIN (Northern Territory) to tackle climate change and that is prepared (4.43 pm)—I rise to participate in this MPI to make longterm structural reform so that debate today. Here we are once again with climate change can be tackled and addressed the opposition attempting to distract Austra- in this country—unlike the people opposite. lians from the fact that they have no plan to We know, everyone knows, that the oppo- tackle climate change. Even if they did, they sition are not serious about climate change. are so divided as a party they could not even We know that the opposition have wrecked find the same song sheet to sing off, let alone plans to tackle climate change before and sing in unison. We can have endless debates that they will continue to wreck them again. I about the Prime Minister’s words prior to the do not think the Australian public is even election. When people watch what the Prime sure that the Leader of the Opposition be- Minister has said, comprehend what she has lieves in climate change. He has had seven said—which obviously people opposite me positions on climate change in two years. He are having difficulty doing—and see how she cannot make up his mind whether it is real or explained herself so well last week on the not real. He cannot make up his mind ABC show Q&A, then they will begin to whether he is going to accept it or not accept understand that the climate has changed not it. He cannot make up his mind if he is going only outside but inside this parliament. What to deal with it or not deal with it. That is the we are now dealing with is a minority par- real issue here. We can have MPI after MPI liament in the House of Representatives and every single day in this place and debate this a Senate in which this government does not issue endlessly. On this side of the chamber, have the numbers to pass legislation that it Labor Party politicians are happy to take you would like to without negotiating with other on every single, solitary day. At every minute parties in this parliament, without sitting of every hour, we are more than happy to down and doing the hard yards and getting defend the action that we are taking on cli- people around a table and negotiating an out- mate change. If we look at last Thursday, come. Tony Abbott made three strikes in three min- People opposite should realise that fact— utes. although they probably do not. I remember a The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT time in this parliament when those opposite (Senator Moore)—Senator, ‘Mr Abbott’.

CHAMBER 1313 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Senator CROSSIN—Mr Tony Abbott. the Liberal Party’s Australia’s Climate Thank you for reminding me of that, Madam Change Policy, July 2007. Acting Deputy President. Mr Abbott’s scare Third, Mr Abbott changed his position on campaign rolled into the Illawarra last climate change science in just three sen- Thursday. The Leader of the Opposition tences. The host of the ABC Illawarra said: managed to make three significant mistakes So, where is your own mind as far as the climate in a matter of minutes. This is how averse change science is concerned and what we need to this Leader of the Opposition is when it do about it? comes to climate change. First, Mr Abbott Mr Abbott turned around and said: still thinks his direct action fraud would be a cheaper and more efficient way than a car- Well, what I said about 18 months or so back was bon price in tackling climate change. He that the so-called settled science of climate change isn’t always quite what it’s claimed to be. said: Nevertheless, as I’ve said repeatedly, it’s impor- I think it’s reasonable to reduce carbon dioxide tant to take prudent precautions against credible emissions and you can do it much more cheaply threats. Climate change is real. Mankind does and with much less economic damage by going to make a contribution. the market and directly purchasing emissions, rather than whacking a great big new tax on our While Mr Abbott calls himself a weather- cost of living and on jobs. vane when it comes to climate change, this The fact is that Mr Abbott’s direct action must be some sort of record: two positions policy will actually cost this country $30 on climate change in three sentences. What billion. Taxpayers rather than polluters will have we got here? What is this debate really pay to cut pollution. Under our scheme we about? This debate is not a debate about want the polluters to pay, not the taxpayers. whether or not climate change that we are And there will be no investment certainty tackling is going to benefit this country and provided to industry under the direct action benefit the outcomes of what we are seeing plan. Under Mr Abbott’s plan, households around the world. It is not a debate about will not receive any assistance to cope with how quick, how soon or how efficient we rises in the cost of living, instead they will be can do it. This is about masking what is slugged an extra $720 at tax time. really going on in the opposition. It is about seven positions on climate change in two Second, Mr Abbott does not understand years. It is about a divided party that cannot former Prime Minister John Howard’s emis- agree on whether or not climate change ex- sions trading policy. On ABC Illawarra last ists, whether climate change is real, whether Thursday, Mr Abbott said. it is man made or not man made and how we You know, the big thing about John Howard’s are going to deal with it. So let us have a ETS was that it wasn’t going to happen unless the debate about all of that. rest of the world did the same thing. Climate change is real, and climate The Howard government did intend to pro- change is happening. The Labor Party ac- duce an emissions trading system in 2012. cepts that. We know that. We are acting on That was the former Prime Minister’s posi- that. Scientists have shown that in the past 50 tion. At the time, Mr Howard wrote that his years there have been fewer cold nights and policy ‘will ensure Australia leads the world days and more hot days and nights world- in our domestic approach to reducing green- wide, and that is no more obvious than here house gas emissions’. Where does that quote come from? It comes from the foreword of

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1314 in this country. CSIRO states on their web- with heat stress and cattle ticks affecting Ter- site: ritory beef cattle. Commercial and recrea- Since 1900, precipitation has increased signifi- tional fishing will also be affected by cantly over eastern parts of the Americas, north- changes in the sea temperatures, and impor- ern Europe, parts of Asia and north-west Austra- tant ecosystems, like coral reefs, mangroves lia. and freshwater wetlands will also be severely The Bureau of Meteorology in their annual impacted. The Northern Territory had its Australian climate statement for 2010 stated: wettest dry season on record, with September Australian mean rainfall total for 2010 was ... experiencing nearly double its average rain- well above the long-term average ... As a result, fall. Global ocean levels rose by approxi- 2010 was Australia’s wettest year since 2000 and mately 17 centimetres during the last century the third-wettest year on record (records com- and by approximately 10 centimetres from mence in 1900). 1920 to 2000 at Australian coastal sites. For 11 months in 2010, Australia experi- Across Northern Australia—the Gulf of enced above average rainfall—an occurrence Carpentaria, the Cape York Peninsula and the that has only happened once before in 1973. Top End of the Northern Territory—we had I will take a minute to talk about the im- the warmest July to October period on record pact of this in the Northern Territory. The for mean temperatures for a very long time. CSIRO has produced an excellent report that Our climate is consistently breaking weather details climate change impacts on the North- records, not only in the Top End and not only ern Territory. It makes for some pretty horri- in this country but all over the world. In our fying reading, I have to say. Temperature annual climate reports, there is higher rain- increases will increase the risk of heat related fall and higher surface and ocean tempera- death, particularly among the elderly. Cli- tures each year. The impacts are devastating, mate change in the tropics makes diseases and we are seeing that day after day. such as Ross River fever more prevalent. The What is the end result? The end result is most vulnerable in our society, children and that it is time to tackle climate change. It is the elderly, will particularly suffer as a result time to take action. It is time to make a deci- of these diseases becoming more prolific. sion to do something about what is happen- There is a risk of salt water intrusion into ing. It is time to decide on a program of mas- Kakadu National Park as well as other sive reform in order to tackle this. We need freshwater wetlands, with projections of up to get this on the agenda. We need to cut pol- to 80 per cent of the fresh water being lost lution, tackle climate change and build a and the ecosystems that rely on it disappear- clean energy economy. You cannot do that if ing as well. you are squabbling among yourselves, if you The number of cyclones affecting the top have had seven positions in three years, if end is not expected to increase. But more of you have made three different statements in the cyclones are expected to be of greater three minutes on the one ABC radio station intensity, with them reaching category 4 or 5. and if you have leaders ousted because they The coastal waters of the Territory are rela- believe in climate change and replaced with tively shallow and, as such, are vulnerable to a leader who believes climate change is ab- an increase in sea level and storm surges. solute crap. You are squabbling among your- Climate change will have an impact, as we selves, replacing leader after leader and try- know, on agriculture, livestock and fisheries, ing to grasp some sense of reality and some sense of whether you are relevant in this de-

CHAMBER 1315 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 bate. Get on and accept the science. Accept tion of what we are doing as a government— that climate change is happening. Accept that step by step, month by month, each page of this country needs to do something about it. the way—(Time expired) In the Labor Party, we have now begun to Senator CORMANN (Western Australia) tackle climate change. We do not have to (4.58 pm)—Whatever the issue, whatever the lead the world. But we do not have to wait challenge, one thing is clear: under this gov- and sit back and let everyone else do it and ernment, we will end up with another new then do it—that is the position of the Liberal Labor Party tax. New and increased taxes as Party. They want to wait for the whole world policy responses to everything are part of to start to do something about it and then Labor’s DNA. That is why the people of have a bit of a look-see and a bit of a win- Australia, the media and people on the coali- dow shop. If they like what everyone else is tion side of parliament are very suspicious doing internationally, they might decide to whenever this government rules out a tax. step inside and buy. Australia has never done We do not believe them. Look back to the that. Australia should not do that. And under Paul Keating precedent. Then Prime Minister this Labor Party government we are not go- Paul Keating went to the 1993 election and ing to do that. We are going to start to tackle said ‘l-a-w tax cuts.’ After the election, there climate change now. We do not have to lead was no such thing as l-a-w anymore. This is the world and we do not have to wait for the why the Prime Minister was confronted time rest of the world. We have to be assured that after time during the election with the ques- it is the best thing at this point in time for tion, ‘Will you be introducing a carbon tax if this country, and that is what we believe. It is you are successful at this election?’ Wher- the right thing to do for Australia right now. ever she went, she was asked that question. It is right for the economy and for Australian Eventually, she knew that she had to rule it jobs. out; she knew that she had to say, ‘There will How are we going to do it? We are going be no carbon tax under the government I to make industry pay when they pollute. We lead’; she knew that she had to say, the day are going to put a price on carbon. We set up before the election, ‘I rule out a carbon tax.’ the Multi-Party Climate Change Committee. Otherwise, she would have lost the election; We are taking advice from experts. We are otherwise, she would no longer be in the taking advice from politicians in this place Lodge; otherwise, she knew that there would who will take part in pushing this legislation be no such thing as a continuation of this through. We are going to put a price on car- Labor administration. We know that, like bon. We are going to ensure that industry Paul Keating before her, this Prime Minister pays when it pollutes; that industry starts to has deliberately deceived the Australian peo- get charged for the carbon dioxide that they ple, as she of course deceived the then Prime are pumping into the atmosphere. This will Minister, Kevin Rudd, in June last year. create a clean energy nation. Now the Prime Minister is preparing the To help families with the cost of living, next deceit. She is trying to say to people: we will put a carbon price on pollution. The ‘Don’t worry about what I said five days best way to stop industries polluting and to before the election. Don’t worry about me get them to invest in clean energy is to ruling out a carbon tax. I am now going to charge them when they pollute. I do not introduce a carbon tax. And do you know think that this country got a better explana- what? It won’t hurt. I will introduce a carbon tax and you won’t notice a thing. We are go-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1316 ing to have compensation, we are going to This government is asking people in Aus- have tax cuts, we are going to increase pen- tralia to make a sacrifice, to pay more tax, sions, we are going to do this and that.’ for no benefit at all in terms of reducing There is a plethora of announcements about global emissions. If you are going to make what the government is going to do. There an environmentally friendly business in Aus- are no details of course and no plan; it is just tralia less competitive than a polluter over- one thought bubble after another. And what seas because they are not part of a compre- is the Prime Minister really saying? She is hensive global agreement to price carbon, saying to the Australian people, ‘Trust me; I then what you have done is increased emis- am going to make sure that this carbon tax, sions in the world while imposing a sacrifice which I ruled out before the election and I on the people in Australia. That is the fun- said was never going to happen, is not going damental problem with Labor’s flawed tax to hurt you.’ How dumb does the Prime Min- and flawed policy. They fail to understand ister think the Australian people are? Of this. That is why they do not understand the course the Australian people know that this great benefit of the direct action plan put carbon tax is all about hurting them. It is all forward by Tony Abbott and the coalition, about having an impact on them. It is all which reduces emissions in Australia in a about doing something that will actually way that reduces emissions in other parts of change their habits. the world to an equivalent amount. The reality is that this is bad policy. The The previous speaker said that we should previous speaker criticised our direct action not have to wait for everybody else and we plan. Our direct action plan will actually re- should just tackle climate change now. The duce emissions in Australia in a way that problem is that this government is not trying reduces emissions in the world. That is not to tackle climate change. This government is something that can be said about either the looking at imposing a new tax. This is part of carbon tax or the emissions trading scheme. the great con. It is why Prime Minister Gil- The carbon tax, the emissions trading lard advised the previous Prime Minister, scheme or any other mechanism that this Kevin Rudd, back in February/March 2010 government may come up with to put a price not to go ahead with his emissions trading on carbon will not reduce emissions in the scheme. After Copenhagen the debate inside world. I asked Senator Wong last week what the Labor government changed because they the net impact would be on global emissions realised that they had a problem. Then Prime of the Gillard carbon tax. She was not able to Minister Rudd wanted to lead the charge in answer that, because the government knows Copenhagen. He wanted to go to Copenha- that putting a price on carbon in Australia, gen and say, ‘Aren’t we great. We got this putting a carbon tax on or putting an emis- legislation to impose a price on carbon sions trading scheme in place in the absence through the parliament.’ The reason he of similar arrangements in the US, in China wanted to do it, the one single argument he and in other competitor nations will shift came up with to justify that proposition was emissions into those countries. It will also so that he could go to Copenhagen and con- shift jobs into those countries because it will vince all of the other nations—the US, make business in Australia less competitive. China, India and so on—to follow our lead It will make polluting businesses in other and do like we have done in Australia. And parts of the world more competitive. of course the US, China and India were never going to go down this path. It was very

CHAMBER 1317 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 obvious that that would not happen in De- Senator HURLEY (South Australia) cember 2009 in Copenhagen. Long before (5.06 pm)—Both parties went to the election the congress in the US changed, it was very promising action on climate change. Both the obvious that the US was not going to go government and the opposition now have a ahead with a cap and trade carbon scheme. commitment to reduce greenhouse gases by We now have the government’s adviser, five per cent by 2020. So we have a situation Professor Garnaut, out there desperately try- where both the opposition—I mean the Lib- ing to help the Labor government to come up eral Party opposition because I am still not with ways of salvaging its broken promise, sure where the National Party stands on which is bad policy for Australia. He says, this—and the government have a commit- ‘Why don’t we link tax reform with the car- ment to action, and this was perfectly clear in bon tax?’ The problem with this government the election of 2010. So it would actually be is that they do not want tax reform. They a breach of trust for the government not to want more and new and increased taxes. take some action on climate change. It would be a breach of trust not to fulfil that com- Every time they talk about another tax re- mitment. form, all it means is another new and in- creased tax. This whole concept of lower, In the 2010 election the electors of Austra- simpler and fairer taxes is not something that lia voted in a way that meant that neither the comes easily with this government, which is coalition nor the Labor Party had a majority why they have resisted holding a tax summit in their own right. It was the Labor Party, for so long. In the end they could not resist it under Prime Minister Julia Gillard, which any longer. The Independents were on their formed an agreement with the Independents back so they are going to have it in October and the Greens in this parliament such that now, when it was supposed to have happened the Labor Party could form government. in June. We should go for lower, fairer and That means that the Labor Party cannot nec- simpler taxes without having a carbon tax. essarily take action on its own. It has to rely To link the proposition of tax reform—lower, on partners in the government to take action. fairer and simpler taxes—with the proposal That circumstance, which was dictated by of a massive new tax on carbon is just a the people of Australia, means that the action complete con. It is saying, ‘We are going to that the Labor Party took on climate change take $1,000 from you over here and we are was different from the action that it would going to give you $500 back.’ Senator Bir- have proposed. But the Labor Party still be- mingham went in great detail through the lieves that this is a workable solution in or- deceit by people like the Minister for Re- der to fulfil its commitment to reduce green- gional Australia, Regional Development and house gases by five per cent by 2020. That Local Government, Simon Crean, and others, compromise has been to introduce a carbon who are trying to suggest that 100 per cent of tax in the first years, and that will form a the carbon tax revenue is going to be used to transition period for both business and con- compensate households. It is not true. We are sumers. That transition period will enable having an announcement a day where the adjustment and stabilisation and it will en- government is perpetuating this deceit of the able businesses in particular to get systems in Australian people, which has been going on place so they can deal with the upcoming ever since the Prime Minister broke the emissions trading scheme. This is a very sen- promise not to introduce a carbon tax. sible and practical solution. The government has put in place a carbon tax while promising

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1318 that those households who will have trouble this debate. It has been markedly absent from coping with the taxation aspect will be fully what those opposite have put. People like compensated. Senator Cormann continue to state as facts This action will be the fulfilment of things which have been comprehensively agreements that have been made around the demolished in a series of reports by various world on climate change and emissions. people all around the world. The impact on Those agreements were made in Kyoto, with behaviour by the polluters, on the house- the Kyoto convention, Copenhagen and Can- holders and consumers who use the products cun. It is as part of Australia’s commitment of that pollution, must be changed. The im- to world agreements that this action has been pact on behaviour in terms of allowing pollu- taken. It is a sensible, practical commitment tion to go ahead in Australia—by burning to world action. coal, by squandering electricity and by squandering energy—really must be reined The latest commitment of the Leader of in and the electors of Australia understand the Opposition, Mr Tony Abbott, has been to that we must be responsible for our own pol- direct action. To pretend that this is not going lution, that we are using our resources— to cost business or consumers anything is whether they be coal, gas or petroleum re- nonsensical. It will cost business and con- sources—excessively. I think an overwhelm- sumers. One of the estimates is that this will ing number of people in Australia understand cost $30 billion, so it is no wonder that the that we are overusing those resources and Liberal Party are so sensitive about any criti- understand the need to rein in our use. We cism of that. It is inconceivable that change had a period of plenty when it seemed that by direct action will not result in an impost these natural resources were limitless and on businesses, consumers and the Australian people did gradually overuse these resources, economy. Report after report, not only from be they water, electricity or whatever. I think Australia but from overseas, has shown that people are prepared to change their behav- is not the most effective way to produce a iour and to be given a sense of direction change in behaviour, a change in the way about how their behaviour should change. that Australia produces pollution. So it is not That is regardless of what is happening only a desperate attempt by the party to dif- around the world. ferentiate itself from the government but also an attempt that is, according to any report Senator Cormann ran the tired old argu- that I have ever seen, bound to fail. There is ment that whatever we do will not have a no doubt that it has some superficial attrac- sufficient impact on world emissions. That is tions as people see it as an easy solution, but just not the point. We have to change our the fact is report after report shows that it behaviour. We have to reduce our own pollu- will not work. tion in Australia. That is the important point for us. We have to make sure that we do not Incidentally, the need to bring some facts squander our limited resources in this coun- into this debate is why this government is try. We do have room in our behaviour to planning to have some sort of advertising pull back and make sure that we do not pol- campaign to actually show people what the lute our own country, that we do not reck- facts of this debate are all about. I certainly lessly use resources that are needed for fu- hope that advertising campaign will go ture generations. That is the point; that is ahead, because it is well overdue that we what we must work towards. We must de- bring some scientific rigour and logic into velop the technologies and the habits to en-

CHAMBER 1319 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 sure that that will happen, and that is the im- happened since the election? There was a portant point. It is not making a sacrifice for promise before the election with the Inde- no benefit, as Senator Cormann said. It is pendents—the country Independents—for a making a sacrifice for our own benefits and tax summit by 30 June, yet we found out just for generations to come. in the last 24 hours that it has been put off The public’s receptiveness of that attitude until October. That is yet another broken has been proved time and time again. If we promise. The Prime Minister promised be- have an advertising campaign to put out the fore the last election that she supported a facts about emissions and climate change citizens’ assembly to try to garner consensus and pollution, that should steer around the on the issue of climate change and the merit debate in this country to a more practical and of a carbon tax, or an emissions trading logical debate—not one that is driven by a scheme, or something similar. Of course, that fear campaign from the opposition who pur- has now gone out the door. Two weeks ago port to accept the premise but do not want to we had the Minister for Climate Change and put in place practical measures to bring about Energy Efficiency, Mr Combet, and the Min- change. I commend Prime Minister Gillard ister for Regional Australia, Regional Devel- and the Labor Party on setting out to achieve opment and Local Government, Mr Crean, those measures in combination with their both advocating for and on behalf of the partners in parliament. government—one assumes, because they are ministers—that 100 per cent of this tax reve- Senator BARNETT (Tasmania) (5.16 nue would be provided in compensation for pm)—I speak in favour of this motion, which households and for pensioners. Yet we find has been very well drafted and makes an ex- out, again in the last 24 hours, that that is not tremely important point, and I thank Senator the case. It is not going to be the case at all. Fifield for the opportunity. It is important to They say it will be about 50 per cent. So who note here that we have a government that has is stating the truth? Who are we to believe? broken its promise not only to the parliament We do not know whether to believe it before but also to the Australian people. We have a the election or even less than 12 months after Prime Minister who stared into a television the election. People are breaking their word camera—looked down the barrel—and said for and on behalf of the government; it is not with deception in her eyes, ‘There will be no good enough. This government is a govern- carbon tax under a government I lead.’ Not ment of dishonesty and incompetence. That only that, just a few days before the federal is not acceptable and the Australian people election she said that ‘there will be no tax’ will no doubt send a message at the appro- and that was put on the front page of the priate time. Australian on 20 August 2010: ‘I rule out a carbon tax.’ The Prime Minister’s view of Senator Bob Brown is a matter for her. She has said that These were bald-faced statements and Senator Brown is very calculating. In a key- now it is true that many in the community note address to the Don Dunstan Foundation are giving the Prime Minister, Ms Julia Gil- in Adelaide, she said that Senator Brown lard, the name Ju-liar. People can draw their leads a party which is extreme. Why would own conclusions from that but clearly there the government form an alliance and a coali- has been a shocking deception and the public tion agreement with an extreme party like has come to that understanding. What was that? As to why she has broken her promise, promised before the election and what has her excuse is that there are changed circum-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1320 stances, that she is now forced into an agree- Senator McLucas—Under your plan no- ment with the Greens. She is really making it one pays. very clear: ‘the Greens made me do it’. That Senator BARNETT—Senator McLucas excuse is on a similar par to the excuse that is disputing this, so let me make it very clear. the dog ate my homework. She is saying, ‘I Electricity prices will increase by approxi- have no responsibility; all care, no responsi- mately $300 per year, based on the Garnaut bility. I am not responsible for my actions.’ report, which came out at the end of last Frankly, this is not good enough. week. Electricity prices will go up and go up She is now joined at the hip with the big time. According to the Australian Miner- Greens in this federal coalition arrange- als Council, that will double within three ment—the Labor-Green coalition. That is years. Petrol prices will increase by 6½c per very interesting because as a Tasmanian litre. Gas prices will go up by $2 a week or senator, I know what has happened in Tas- $104 a year. Water bills will go up $16, ac- mania as a result of the Labor-Green coali- cording to the Victorian department of envi- tion down there. The effect on of the Tasma- ronment—that is, at $25 per tonne. Will it nian people of incompetence, waste and have an impact on rates? Who pays the rates? mismanagement is something shocking. Mums and dads pay the rates. According to Even just a number of weeks ago, the Pre- the Australian Local Government Associa- mier of Tasmania, Lara Giddings, indicated tion, rates will go up $46 per year. There will that she wanted to cut $270-odd million from be an impact on air travel. The cost of new the Tasmanian budget and thousands of pub- homes will increase by $4,800, according to lic sector jobs. She should have apologised the Housing Industry Association—that is, at in the first place and said, ‘I am ashamed of $20 per tonne, and of course it could be a the mismanagement of the economy by my whole lot more. state Labor-Green government.’ Now the We have a lot of concerns and lot of prob- economy is suffering as a result. Confidence lems. The government indicate they want to is at a rock-bottom, all-time low. The Labor- spend $30 million of taxpayers’ money on Green experiment in Tasmania is not work- campaigning and advertising to support it. ing. My federal colleagues in this parliament That is a con and it should not be allowed. and people on the mainland should be fully Senator FAULKNER (New South aware of that fact and know that the econ- Wales) (5.23 pm)—Climate change is real. omy in Tasmania is slowing and that levels The world is warning. The overwhelming of confidence are way down. Learn the les- majority of scientific opinion acknowledges son and do not just blame the Greens and say that this is a result of human activity. If that ‘they made me do it’. It is not good greenhouse gas emissions continue to grow enough. unabated, the problem will get worse. Of Senator Crossin said in this place—and course this is not Australia’s problem alone, other Labor members and senators have but we must do our bit as a responsible made this point publicly, including the Prime member of the international community. Minister—that the polluters pay. That is ab- Madam Deputy President, I suppose I solute and arrant nonsense. Guess who pays? have some form on this issue. As environ- Australian families—mums and dads, house- ment minister in the Keating government, I holds, kids. Everybody will pay not just the suggested they consider a low-level carbon polluters. Let me give you the evidence. levy. I admit that at the time I was virtually

CHAMBER 1321 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 alone in my advocacy for such a measure. 2010, 2005 and 1998 were the warmest years But I suggest the doubters do as I did: read on record globally. the reports from the Intergovernmental Panel The CSIRO and the Bureau of Meteorol- on Climate Change, the IPCC, and those of ogy have also reported that the rate of sea our own scientists at the CSIRO and the Bu- level rise increased during the 20th century. reau of Meteorology, which clearly show the From 1870 to 2007, the global average sea climate is warming, and it will continue to do level rose by close to 200 millimetres. Over so as a result of greenhouse gas emissions the period 1993 to 2009, sea level rises have from human activity. ranged between 1.5 millimetres to three mil- The time to act is now as Australia faces limetres per year in the south and east, and potentially disastrous environmental and seven millimetres to 10 millimetres per year economic costs from the impact of climate in the north and west of Australia. They have change, particularly on coastal communities, also reported that over the period of the last infrastructure, water security, health, agricul- 50 years, the surface temperatures of the ture and energy supply. The IPCC’s fourth oceans around Australia have increased by assessment report finds that ‘warming of the about 0.4 degrees Celsius. climate system is unequivocal’. The IPCC As for the future, the CSIRO and the Bu- reports that emissions of greenhouse gases reau of Meteorology have projected that due to human activities have grown by 70 Australian average temperatures are going to per cent between 1970 and 2004, and states rise by 0.6 degrees Celsius to 1.5 degrees that most of the ‘observed increases in global Celsius as soon as 2030. They said, ‘If global temperatures since the mid 20th century are greenhouse gas emissions continue to grow very likely to be as a result of human activi- at rates consistent with past trends, warming ties’. is projected to be in the range of 2.2 to 5.0 The CSIRO and the Bureau of Meteorol- degrees Celsius by 2070.’ The effect of this ogy combined last year to present our most on Australia and Australians will be devastat- recent picture of Australia’s climate. Both ing. It is a catastrophe in the making. How these organisations have decades of experi- irresponsible would it be for Australia to sit ence observing and reporting on Australia’s on its hands? You cannot pull up a draw- weather, and conducting atmospheric and bridge against rising sea levels. You cannot marine research. On temperature rises, the change global warming by putting your head CSIRO and Bureau of Meteorology have in the sand and doing nothing. Climate observed that since 1960 the average tem- change is real and is caused by human ac- perature in Australia has increased by about tion. All around the world governments are 0.7 degrees. Whilst temperatures have varied taking action to reduce carbon emissions. in different locations, the overall long-term Thirty European countries have had a price trend is clear and there can be no denying on carbon for the past six years. It is time for Australia has experienced warming over the Australia to do the same. (Time expired) past 50 years. Furthermore, the number of Senator RONALDSON (Victoria) (5.28 days with record hot temperatures has in- pm)—From someone whom I admire that creased each decade over the last half- was a quite remarkable speech. From the century. The decade from 2000 to 2009 was man who has driven Operation Sunlight and Australia’s warmest on record. According to from the man who has protocols named after the World Meteorological Organisation, him—by me, I might add, but still suppor-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1322 tive—to come into this place and avoid the issue. Everyone knows the member for key question is quite remarkable. Senator Corangamite is completely devoid of any Faulkner can scurry out of this chamber, but common sense but I thought that Richard not once did he explain why his own leader, Marles, the member for Corio, might have five days out from the election, said, ‘There had some. To look at the comments of Rich- will be no carbon tax under the government I ard Marles in the last two weeks in trying to lead.’ Senator Faulkner neglected to talk defend this appalling tax and the effect it will about that. have on Geelong just beggars belief. In a Senator Barnett quite rightly said that the remarkable acknowledgement two weeks Australian Labor Party is now apparently ago, he said he would be working overtime using the ‘dog ate my homework’ defence. to protect jobs under a carbon tax. So two ‘The Greens forced us into this’—that is an- plus two equals four and he knows there are other absolute untruth. There are only three going to be job losses under this tax. In an reasons that the Prime Minister made those opinion piece today that talked about Point comments five days out from the election. Henry, where a thousand people are provided One reason was that she supported a carbon with jobs in that area with Alcoa and other tax but she knew she would lose the election employers, he said: with a new tax and she told a complete un- I would be lying to say that the atmosphere in the truth to win her way back into government. I Point Henry lunch room right now is sanguine. A am not allowed to use another word in this better description might be nervous. And they chamber, but I will use the phrase ‘complete have a right to be. untruth’. ‘They have a right to be’—that is Richard Another reason was that she was happy to Marles, a member of the executive of the tell this untruth because there had already Australian Labor Party, acknowledging that been a grubby deal done with the Australian the workers at Point Henry have good reason Greens before the election. The Prime Minis- to be nervous. What Darren Cheeseman and ter went in with her eyes open, but the Aus- Richard Marles need to do is not talk about tralian people most certainly did not. The these matters, but do something— third reason, which is the most unlikely one, Senator Carol Brown—Madam Acting is that she knew it was bad for Australian Deputy President, on a point of order: I ask families and she did not want one. What put that the senator refer to the members by their paid to that was the desperate deal she did correct titles. after the election to make sure we had a car- The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— bon tax. If she did know it was bad for Aus- I did not hear what you said, Senator tralian families and that is why she ruled it Ronaldson, but if you could observe the out, how can she front up to the Australian usual propriety when referencing members people again to do a grubby deal to get her- of the other place. self back into a false government? They are Senator RONALDSON—I thought I had the only three options. mentioned both the member for Corangamite I will look at my patron seat area of Gee- and the member for Corio, but if I did not I long, which takes in Corangamite and Corio. will mention them. Rather than working I thought Richard Marles, the member for overtime to save jobs under a carbon tax, Corio, had a little bit more to him than he has surely the members for Corio and Coran- been exhibiting in the last two weeks on this gamite should be working overtime for the

CHAMBER 1323 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 workers in Corio and Corangamite to stop Final report, together with the Hansard record of the carbon tax? Why don’t they work over- proceedings and documents presented to the time for that? They will be damned, as they committee (received 17 March 2011) should be, for destroying jobs in Geelong. (b) Government response to parliamentary I heard Senator McLucas parroting across committee report the table today the nonsense that everyone is Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation going to be compensated and that only the Committee––Report––Australian Civilian Corps Bill 2010 [Provisions] (received 10 March 2011) big polluters will pay. Hello? What do you think will happen with the costs? Where will (c) Government document the increased costs go, Senator McLucas? I Snowy Hydro Limited—Financial report for the will tell you where they will go: to Austra- period 5 July 2009 to 3 July 2010 (received 16 lian families. How will they feel that? March 2011) Through 6.5c per litre in petrol—(Time ex- (d) Letters of advice relating to Senate orders pired) 1. Letters of advice relating to lists of contracts: DOCUMENTS Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry portfolio (re- ceived 7 March 2011)G Tabling Veterans’ Affairs portfolio (received 7 March The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT 2011) (Senator Kroger)—Pursuant to standing 2. Letter of advice relating to lists of departmental orders 38 and 166, I present documents listed and agency grants: on today’s Order of Business at item 13 Education, Employment and Workplace Relations which were presented to the President and a portfolio (received 10 March 2011). temporary chair of committees since the Senate last sat. In accordance with the terms Ordered that the Environment and Com- of the standing orders, the publication of the munications Legislation Committee report be documents was authorised. printed. The list read as follows— COMMITTEES (a) Committee reports Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legis- lation Committee Environment and Communications Legislation Committee––National Broadband Network Com- Report: Government Response panies Bill 2010 and the Telecommunications The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— Legislation Amendment (National Broadband In accordance with the usual practice and Network Measures—Access Arrangements) Bill with the concurrence of the Senate I ask that 2011 [Provisions]–– the government response be incorporated in Interim report (received 16 March 2011) Hansard.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1324

The document read as follows— Government Response to the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee Australian Civilian Corps Bill 2010 [Provisions] March 2011

Committee Recommendations Government Response Recommendation 1 Not agreed. The committee recommends that the bill include The Government does not consider it necessary to a statement on the humanitarian and development include such a statement in the Bill. The Govern- purpose for establishing the Australian Civilian ment has sought to align the ACC with the Corps. broader aid program by making the Director Gen- eral of AusAID responsible for the management of the ACC. The ACC Values, which will be pre- scribed by regulation, will further define the prin- ciples that will govern the operation of the ACC. Recommendation 2 Not agreed. The committee recommends that a new subsec- Nothing in the ACC Values will contradict the tion (2) be added to section 12 as follows: APS Values, and as the Explanatory Memoran- (2) Regulations made under this Section must dum states, the intention is to broadly align the provide that Australian Civilian Corps Values be ACC Values and Code with existing APS Values consistent with the APS Values. and Code. The AusAID Code of Conduct for The committee recommends that a new subsec- Overseas Service (the ‘AusAID Overseas Code’) tion (1A) be added to section 15 as follows: will not apply to the ACC, although the ACC (1A) Regulations made under this Section must Code of Conduct will be broadly consistent with provide that Australian Civilian Corps Code of the AusAID Overseas Code. Conduct incorporate the APS Code of Conduct However, there are elements in the APS Values and the AusAID Code of Conduct for Overseas and existing Codes of Conduct that apply to APS Service. employees which are not appropriate for, or rele- vant to, the ACC and its work environment. As a result, incorporation of the existing Codes of Conduct into the ACC Code would be inappropri- ate. Since there would inevitably be differences between the terms of the ACC Values and the APS Values, expressly requiring ‘consistency’ could create unnecessary difficulty in interpreting par- ticular provisions of the ACC Values. The ACC Values and ACC Code of Conduct will be prescribed by regulation and as such will be tabled and subject to Parliamentary scrutiny and disallowance. Recommendation 3 Agree. The committee recommends that consistent with the Public Service Act, the bill require that ex- emptions to the entitlement to review be made under regulations and subject to Parliamentary scrutiny.

CHAMBER 1325 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Committee Recommendations Government Response Recommendation 4 Agree to provide for external review of code of The committee recommends that the bill include conduct decisions. a provision that would allow an ACC employee, In light of the proposed external review right, the following an adverse finding of AusAID’s inter- Government does not consider that it would be nal review, to apply for the matter to be referred necessary for the Bill to also provide for internal to an external merits review authority. The com- review. Under the arrangement established pursu- mittee suggests that this provision should be ant to section 33 of the Public Service Act 1999, modelled on section 33 of the Public Service Act. decisions on breaches of the APS Code of Con- duct are not subject to internal review. Consistent with that, it is proposed that decisions relating to breaches of the ACC Code of Conduct will only be reviewable by an external party. Under the proposed Government amendments to the Bill, the Director General of AusAID will be required to arrange for external review by a suita- bly qualified person or committee. AusAID has reached in-principle agreement with the Merit Protection Commissioner for the Commissioner to be a reviewer of code of conduct decisions, sub- ject to further negotiation of the terms of the re- view arrangement. Under the present proposal, the Commissioner may agree to review decisions, for a fee, at the request of the Director General of AusAID from time to time pursuant to an MOU between the Director General of AusAID and the Commissioner. Following consultation with the Merit Protection Commissioner and the Australian Public Service Commission, it has been decided that the Bill and the regulations will not expressly refer to the Merit Protection Commissioner as the external reviewer. If the Commissioner declines for some reason to review a particular decision, the Director-General would be required by the amended Bill to find an alternative external re- viewer who meets the criteria set out in the Bill in relation to independence and qualifications. The proposed arrangement is similar to existing review arrangements established between the Merit Protection Commissioner and a number of other non-APS Government agencies.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1326

Committee Recommendations Government Response Recommendation 5 Not agreed. While the Government is working to The committee recommends that the government ensure that, to the extent possible, employees who look closely at the provisions governing accrued take up employment with the ACC are not disad- entitlements to ensure that employees who take vantaged in respect of entitlements, there are con- up employment with the ACC are not disadvan- stitutional and other limitations to the Common- taged in respect of entitlements such as superan- wealth’s ability to enact legislation seeking to nuation, long service and annual leave. interfere with the accrual of entitlements under State employment laws that ordinarily apply to relevant employees. It will be open to an employee not to accept an engagement with the ACC if the employee is not satisfied with the entitlements offered. Recommendation 6 Agree. The committee recommends that paragraph While the Government does not consider the addi- 27(2)(a) of the bill be amended to include the tional words to be necessary, this recommendation term ‘at the request of the employees’. Paragraph is consistent with the intention that participation 27(2)(a) to read: in the ACC is entirely voluntary. Accordingly, an (a) the granting of leave to employees, at the amendment to the Bill has been drafted to imple- request of the employees, for the purposes of ment this recommendation. service in the Australian Civilian Corps. Recommendation 7 Agree. The committee recommends that subclause 23(2) be added requiring the notice to specify the ground or grounds that are relied on for termina- tion.

Recommendation 8 The Government agrees with the recommendation The committee recommends that the government to include provisions in the Bill mirroring section give consideration to including in the bill provi- 17 of the Public Service Act 1999 against patron- sions governing the protection of whistleblowers, age and favouritism. prohibition on patronage and favouritism and The Government does not agree to the recom- promotion of employment equity. mendation to include a provision governing the protection of whistleblowers. The Government has committed to enacting a broader ranging pub- lic interest disclosure scheme applying to Com- monwealth employment which should be suffi- cient for the ACC’s purposes. Accordingly, it is considered neither necessary nor appropriate for the ACC to have a separate arrangement under its own legislation.

CHAMBER 1327 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Committee Recommendations Government Response The Government does not agree to the recom- mendation to include a provision on promotion of employment equity as there will only be a limited number of ACC employees at any one time. ACC employees will be selected from the ACC register based on the needs identified by the hosting en- tity/country, as well as the specific skills, experi- ence and capacity of an individual to operate in that potentially high threat environment. In these circumstances, the Government does not consider that it is appropriate to require the Director Gen- eral of AusAID to establish a workplace diversity program for the ACC. Recommendation 9 Not agreed. The committee recommends that an additional The AusAID Code of Conduct for Overseas Ser- subclause be inserted in clause 24 stating that any vice (the ‘AusAID Overseas Code’) will not apply arrangements for, agreements on and actual sec- to the ACC. However, the ACC Code of Conduct ondments under this clause must be consistent will be broadly consistent with the AusAID Over- with ACC Values and Code of Conduct and seas Code, with appropriate modifications to take AusAID Code of Conduct for Overseas Service. into account the unique nature of the ACC’s op- erations. As the Bill is currently drafted, the ACC Values will already apply in relation to secondment ar- rangements (eg. the obligation of the Director General of AusAID to uphold and promote the ACC Values will apply in relation to the making of secondment arrangements). In addition, the ACC Values and ACC Code of Conduct will continue to apply to an ACC em- ployee on secondment (subject to directions is- sued by the Director General of AusAID under subclause 16(1)). Including a provision to require that secondments must in all respects be consis- tent with the ACC Values and ACC Code of Con- duct is considered unnecessary and may have unintended consequences.

Recommendation 10 The Government agrees to amend the Explanatory The committee recommends that the Explanatory Memorandum to specify that the activities of the Memorandum be more explicit on ACC’s report- ACC will be reported separately in AusAID’s ing obligations by specifying that the report on Annual Report but does not believe it is appropri- the activities of the ACC will form a separate and ate to include separate financial statements. discrete section in AusAID’s Annual Report and will include financial statements. Recommendation 11 Agree. The committee recommends that, subject to con- sideration of the committee’s recommendations dealing with the provisions of the bill, the Senate pass the bill.

CHAMBER 1328 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

COMMITTEES Senator McLUCAS—I give notice that, Consideration on the next day of sitting, I shall move: Senator CAROL BROWN—I seek leave That, in accordance with section 5 of the Par- to move a motion to list committee reports liament Act 1974, the Senate approves the pro- posal by the National Capital Authority for capital on the Notice Paper for further considera- works within the Parliamentary Zone relating to tion. the installation work known as The Prime Minis- Leave granted. ters. Senator CAROL BROWN—I move: COMMITTEES That consideration of the committee reports Scrutiny of New Taxes tabled today be listed on the Notice Paper as an Report order of the day. Senator ADAMS (Western Australia) Question agreed to. (5.38 pm)—On behalf of Senator Cormann, DOCUMENTS Chair of the Select Committee on the Scru- Tabling tiny of New Taxes, I present an interim re- port of the committee—New Taxes monitor- The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT ing database. (Senator Kroger)—I present volume 2 of the 2004-2010 consolidated register of Sen- Ordered that the report be printed. ate committee reports. Senator ADAMS—I seek leave to move a Ordered that the document be printed. motion in relation to the report. Tabling Leave granted. Senator McLUCAS (Queensland— Senator ADAMS—I move: Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities and That the Senate take note of the report. Carers) (5.36 pm)—I table a statement of I seek leave to continue my remarks later. reasons for departing from ACCC advice on Leave granted; debate adjourned. the Water Charge (Infrastructure) Rules 2010 which were tabled in the Senate on 8 Febru- Treaties Committee ary 2011. Report PARLIAMENTARY ZONE Senator ADAMS (Western Australia) (5.39 pm)—On behalf of Senator McGauran, Proposal for Works Deputy Chair of the Joint Standing Commit- Senator McLUCAS (Queensland— tee on Treaties, I present the 115th report of Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities and the committee, Treaties tabled on 28 October Carers) (5.36 pm)—In accordance with the and 24 November 2010 and treaties referred provisions of the Parliament Act 1974, I pre- on 16 November 2010 (Part 2). I seek leave sent a proposal for works within the Parlia- to move a motion in relation to the report. mentary Zone relating to the installation art- Leave granted. work known as The Prime Ministers. I seek leave to give a notice of motion in relation to Senator ADAMS—I move: the proposal. That the Senate take note of the report. Leave granted. Senator ADAMS—I seek leave to incor- porate a tabling statement in Hansard. Leave granted

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1329

The statement read as follows— National Broadband Network Committee Mr President, Report 115 of the Joint Standing Procedure Committee Committee on Treaties reviews 16 significant and Membership five minor treaty actions. The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT The Committee supports each of the actions con- (Senator Kroger)—Order! I have received sidered in this report. In the brief time available today, I will direct my remarks mainly to the letters from party leaders and an Independent World Wine Trade Group Agreement on Re- senator requesting nominations and changes quirements for Wine Labelling. in the membership of committees. Mr President, this agreement aims to harmonise Senator McLUCAS (Queensland— wine labelling requirements between member Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities and countries. Estimates are the agreement will save Carers) (5.40 pm)—I seek leave to move a Australian wine makers $25 million per annum, motion to vary the membership of commit- and open new opportunities for trade into major tees. world wine markets. Leave granted. The Committee has supported the agreement, although it recognises there are concerns about Senator McLUCAS—I move: inconsistency with Australia’s domestic regula- That senators be discharged from and ap- tions, with potential implications for consumers. pointed to committees in accordance with the Accordingly, the Committee has expressed the document circulated in the chamber: view that the National Measurement Institute National Broadband Network—Joint Standing should bear these concerns in mind as it amends Committee–– and implements the National Measurement Regu- Appointed–– lations to support the agreement. Senator Ludlam Turning briefly to the other agreements in the report, the Committee has supported binding Participating member: Senator Xenophon treaty action with the European Union on classi- Procedure Committee–– fied information security, on double taxation with Discharged––Senator Brandis Turkey, on social security with Austria, and for provision of air services with seven nations. Appointed––Senator Fifield. The report also reviews treaties addressing mobile Question agreed to. satellite communications, postal services and AUSTRALIAN RESEARCH COUNCIL clarifying liability limits for compensation claims AMENDMENT BILL (No. 2) 2010 arising from incidents involving ships. First Reading Finally, and important given the recent and tragic events in Japan, the Committee has endorsed a Bill received from the House of Represen- cross-servicing agreement which will assist Aus- tatives. tralian Defence and Japanese non-Defence forces Senator McLUCAS (Queensland— to provide disaster and humanitarian relief more Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities and efficiently and well, through reciprocal provision Carers) (5.41 pm)—I move: of defence supplies and services. That this bill may proceed without formalities Mr President, I commend the report to the Senate. and be now read a first time. Question agreed to. Question agreed to. Bill read a first time.

CHAMBER 1330 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Second Reading funding cap for the financial years beginning on 1 Senator McLUCAS (Queensland— July 2010, 2011 and 2012 in line with indexation, and sets the funding cap for the financial year Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities and beginning on 1 July 2013. Indexation adjustments Carers) (5.41 pm)—I move: and adding a third forward estimate are part of the That this bill be now read a second time. standard budget process and are administrative in I seek leave to have the second reading nature. speech incorporated in Hansard. The proposed amendments change only the ad- Leave granted. ministered special appropriation; they do not alter the substance of the Act or increase departmental The speech read as follows— funds. The ARC is a statutory authority within the Aus- The ARC is the major source of funding for the tralian Government’s Innovation, Industry, Sci- innovative, investigator-driven research that has ence and Research portfolio. Its mission is to underpinned inventions ranging from the Bionic deliver policy and programs that advance Austra- Ear to the Jameson Flotation Cell which saves the lian research and innovation globally and benefit coal industry hundreds of millions of dollar each the community. year. ARC Centres of Excellence provide key In seeking to achieve its mission, the ARC pro- science and policy advice on the management of vides advice to the Government on research mat- coral reefs, are developing automated control ters and manages the National Competitive systems for the mining industry and agricultural Grants Program, a significant component of Aus- sector and are taking some big challenges in tralia’s investment in research and development. medicine such as applying nanobionics to regen- erate spinal cord injuries. ARC funding has en- Through the National Competitive Grants Pro- abled regional centres such as the Cairns campus gram, the ARC supports the highest-quality fun- of James Cook University to attract Australian damental and applied research and research train- and international leaders in tropical rainforest ing through competitive selection processes ecology to build world class teams of researchers across all disciplines, with the exception of clini- and postgraduate students. cal medicine and dentistry. On-going funding for the Australian Research This is an appropriation Bill to support the ongo- Council is essential to the vitality of the Austra- ing operations of the ARC. It will fund the high- lian higher education system. Excellent research- quality research we need to address the great ers across all areas of the university system must challenges of our time, to improve the quality of be able to compete for funding if we are to keep people’s lives, to support the development of new world class academics in Australia working in our industries, and to remain competitive in the global universities and teaching the next generation. knowledge economy. Since 2007 the Australian Research Council has Bills to amend the Australian Research Council delivered on the 2007 Election Commitment—for Act to receive administered funding occur each 1000 Future Fellowships. The Australian Gov- year, this is to apply indexation to existing appro- ernment will provide over five years up to $844 priation amounts, create a additional forward million and will award up to 1000 of these mid estimate and may also contain new funding for career research fellowships. The inaugural 200 new initiatives. Future Fellows were announced in September The current Bill updates the special appropriation 2009 and the next 200 will be announced this funding cap amounts administered by the Austra- week. lian Research Council to include indexation ad- In January 2008 we announced the establishment justments to three existing financial year appro- of the ARC Advisory Council and a range of priation amounts, and adds a forward estimate other measures to enhance the independence of year in the Australian Research Council Act 2001. the ARC. The bill adjusts the Australian Research Council’s

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1331

In February 2008—we announced the ARC will ment support of $255.9 million over 7 years. This deliver the Excellence for Research in Australia was in addition to the Australian Government’s (ERA). This is a world leading research evalua- announcement in February 2009 of an additional tion framework reflecting the Australian Gov- $82.25 million to extend the funding of 11 exist- ernment’s commitment to a transparent, stream- ing Centres of Excellence. lined evaluation of the quality of research under- Through this important legislation, the ARC will taken in Australia’s universities. The Australian continue to advance our efforts to build a fairer Government has provided $35.8 million over four and more prosperous Australia through innova- years. tion and education. In March 2008—the government announced the I commend the Bill to the Senate. opening of all ARC grant schemes to international competition and in July 2008—the opening of the Debate (on motion by Senator McLucas) ARC schemes to the Australian Institute of Abo- adjourned. riginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies SCHOOLS ASSISTANCE AMENDMENT (AIATSIS). The ARC continues to work closely (FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE) BILL 2011 with indigenous researchers on a range of new initiatives for indigenous researchers. First Reading In September 2008—the ARC introduced the Bill received from the House of Represen- Australian Laureate Fellowships Scheme. This tatives. was a new fellowship scheme to build strong Senator McLUCAS (Queensland— teams around our very best research leaders. The Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities and Australian Government will provide over five Carers) (5.42 pm)—I move: years up to $239 million and will award up to 75 Fellowships. The inaugural 15 Laureate Fellows That this bill may proceed without formalities were announced in June 2009. and be now read a first time. In June 2009—the National Centre of Excellence Question agreed to. in Groundwater Research and Training was estab- Bill read a first time. lished as a joint initiative of the ARC and the Second Reading National Water Commission with Australian Government support of $29.5 million for five Senator McLUCAS (Queensland— years from 2009. Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities and Other joint initiatives include $92 million through Carers) (5.42 pm)—I move: the ARC to the National ICT Centre and $21 mil- That this bill be now read a second time. lion in support of Stem Cell Science research I seek leave to have the second reading through the ARC’s Special Research Initiative announced in May 2010. speech incorporated in Hansard. In September 2009—100 Super Science Fellow- Leave granted. ships (worth $27.8 million) were announced as The speech read as follows— part of the Australian Government’s $1.1 billion The Schools Assistance Amendment (Financial Super Science initiative. The successful recipients Assistance) Bill 2011 makes amendments to the were announced in April 2010. Schools Assistance Act 2008. In December 2009—Bionic Vision Research: The The Bill amends the Schools Assistance Act 2008 Australian Government has provided $50 million to extend the existing funding arrangements, in- for research into Bionic Vision Science and Tech- cluding indexation arrangements, until the end of nology which came about as a priority from the 2013 and for Grants for Capital Expenditure until 2020 summit. the end of 2014. This will ensure funding cer- In July 2010—13 new Centres of Excellence tainty for all Catholic and independent schools were announced with total Australian Govern- beyond the current duration of the Act.

CHAMBER 1332 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

The Bill confirms the Australian Government’s COMMITTEES commitment to ensuring certainty of investment National Broadband Network Committee in all Australian schools. Resolution of Appointment The Government is conducting a Review of Funding for Schooling due to report in 2011. The Message received from the House of Rep- Government must maintain an ability to provide resentatives informing the Senate that the certainty for the non-government sector to com- House has agreed to the amendments made mit to expenditure in 2013 and, in respect of capi- by the Senate relating to the resolution of tal grants, until the end of 2014, while the Review appointment of the Joint Standing Commit- of Funding for Schooling is taking place. tee on the National Broadband Network. By amending the Schools Assistance Act 2008, AVIATION CRIMES AND POLICING the Australian Government will be able to con- LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL tinue to provide capital grants to supplement funds provided by the state and territory educa- 2010 [2011] tion authorities and funds provided by non- CRIMES LEGISLATION AMENDMENT government school authorities until 2014. BILL 2010 [2011] The amendment provides an opportunity to con- LAW AND JUSTICE LEGISLATION tinue good infrastructure projects for our schools. AMENDMENT (IDENTITY CRIMES It will enable the Government to continue to work AND OTHER MEASURES) BILL 2010 with school communities, parents and families in [2011] the non-government school sector to build on the partnerships that are so critical to improving out- Assent comes for Australian primary and secondary stu- Message from the Governor-General re- dents. ported informing the Senate of assent to the The Australian Government seeks to improve bills. educational outcomes and assist in the provision of school facilities, particularly in ways that con- COMMITTEES tribute most to raising the overall level of educa- Environment and Communications Legis- tional achievement of all Australian school stu- lation Committee dents. Rearrangement The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT Senator CAROL BROWN (Tasmania) (Senator Kroger)—In accordance with (5.44 pm)—On behalf of the chair of the standing order 111, further consideration of Environment and Communications Legisla- this bill is now adjourned to the first day of tion Committee, Senator Cameron, I seek the next period of sittings commencing on 10 leave to move a motion relating to the pres- May 2011. entation of a report by the committee. EVIDENCE AMENDMENT Leave granted. (JOURNALISTS’ PRIVILEGE) BILL Senator CAROL BROWN—I move: 2010 That the time for the presentation of the report NATIONAL HEALTH AND HOSPITALS of the Environment and Communications Legisla- NETWORK BILL 2010 tion Committee on the provisions of the Broad- Returned from the House of casting Legislation Amendment (Digital Dividend Representatives and Other Measures) Bill 2011 be postponed to a later hour of the day. Messages received from the House of Representatives agreeing to the amendments Question agreed to. made by the Senate to the bills.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1333

NATIONAL VOCATIONAL the report of the committee on the Tax Laws EDUCATION AND TRAINING Amendment (Temporary Flood and Cyclone REGULATOR BILL 2010 [2011] Reconstruction Levy) Bill 2011 together Report of Education, Employment and with the Hansard record of proceedings and Workplace Relations Legislation documents presented to the committee. Committee Ordered that the report be printed. Senator CAROL BROWN (Tasmania) BUSINESS (5.45 pm)—On behalf of the Chair of the Rearrangement Standing Committee on Education, Em- Senator McLUCAS (Queensland— ployment and Workplace Relations Legisla- Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities and tion Committee, Senator Marshall, I present Carers) (5.46 pm)—I move: the report of the committee on the National Vocational Education and Training Regulator That the order of consideration of government Bill 2010 [2011] together with the Hansard business orders of the day for the remainder of today be as follows: record of proceedings and documents pre- sented to the committee. No. 7––Tax Laws Amendment (Temporary Flood and Cyclone Reconstruction Levy) Bill 2011 and Ordered that the report be printed. a related bill COMBATING THE FINANCING OF No. 14––Electoral and Referendum Amendment PEOPLE SMUGGLING AND OTHER (Enrolment and Prisoner Voting) Bill 2010 MEASURES BILL 2011 No. 9––Civil Dispute Resolution Bill 2010 Legal and Constitutional Affairs No. 16––Commonwealth Electoral Amendment Legislation Committee (Political Donations and Other Measures) Bill Report 2010. Senator CAROL BROWN (Tasmania) Question agreed to. (5.45 pm)—On behalf of the chair of the TAX LAWS AMENDMENT Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation (TEMPORARY FLOOD AND Committee, Senator Crossin, I present a re- CYCLONE RECONSTRUCTION LEVY) port on the provisions of the Combating the BILL 2011 Financing of People Smuggling and Other INCOME TAX RATES AMENDMENT Measures Bill 2011 together with the Han- (TEMPORARY FLOOD AND sard record of proceedings and documents CYCLONE RECONSTRUCTION LEVY) presented to the committee. BILL 2011 Ordered that the report be printed. Second Reading TAX LAWS AMENDMENT Debate resumed from 2 March, on motion (TEMPORARY FLOOD AND by Senator Wong: CYCLONE RECONSTRUCTION LEVY) That these bills be now read a second time. BILL 2011 Senator RYAN (Victoria) (5.47 pm)— Report of Economics Legislation Debate on the Tax Laws Amendment (Tem- Committee porary Flood and Cyclone Reconstruction Senator CAROL BROWN (Tasmania) Levy) Bill 2011 and the Income Tax Rates (5.45 pm)—On behalf of the Chair of the Amendment (Temporary Flood and Cyclone Standing Committee on Economics Legisla- Reconstruction Levy) Bill 2011 was ad- tion Committee, Senator Hurley, I present

CHAMBER 1334 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 journed to allow the Senate Economics tinent can impose upon us as individuals, to Committee to look into this legislation and I build common infrastructure, shows that this note its report was tabled earlier today. I will government does not have its priorities right. not cover in detail all the many highly credi- When this government is faced with a ble arguments raised by my colleagues with problem, an opportunity or a challenge, no respect to the reasons these bills should be matter what the situation, the opportunity is opposed—ranging from the lack of ability of always there to resort to new taxes. It is a this government to spend money effectively habit. It is an addiction. The first step for this and the priorities of this government, to the government to not continually increase the enormous amount it has wasted in only 3½ burden upon the Australian people would be short years. to realise it has a problem. Off the top of my Today, I want to address the priorities of head I can name six new or increased taxes this government. What happened in Queen- in three short years. We had the alcopops tax. sland, in my home state of Victoria, as well We had the luxury car tax increase, which as in Western Australia was indeed a tragedy, this government cares to forget. We have had not just in human terms, although that is increases in tobacco excise and tobacco tax most important, but also in the damage done and now we have the mining tax, the carbon to property. I fail to understand why we tax and, with respect to this bill, we have would introduce a levy like this to pay for what is colloquially know as the flood tax. what is a basic function of government. The This government always resorts to taxes. In a government has not sufficiently articulated massive budget it cannot perform the most the reasons. Why do we have government? basic tasks of government—rebuilding infra- Philosophically, it is partly to civilise us. Is it structure from unforeseen and unforeseeable because, as Thomas Hobbes said, ‘Our life in natural disasters. It has to levy the Australian nature would be solitary, poor, nasty, brutish people an extra cost. and short’? The truth is that this tax is so small that it In essence, we have government to per- betrays the true agenda of this government. form basic tasks which we, as individuals, This government wanted an excuse to create cannot perform as effectively on our own. It a new tax. You know that in essence you do is to create a common wealth and to create not need it. It represents less than half a per certain public goods, among which are cent of the government’s annual expenditure. emergency services, defence forces, courts, It represents well under that when you con- police and a legal system, all of which allow sider the period over which this money will us to live in some degree of freedom from be spent. This tax is simply not needed. Over the harshness of nature or the arbitrary ac- the past three years, this government has tions of others. At its most basic, providing shown its willingness to fling money around. basic infrastructure is a core function of gov- It spent it on pink batts, on green loans and ernment. It is not an additional extra. It is not on shonky and shabby builders. Yet, it has to something for which people should have to dip into Australians’ pockets when it wants dip into their pockets and pay more. This to do the first most basic of functions. What government has run an extraordinarily large are we to see next? Extra charges, extra lev- budget but to justify that it needs an extra ies to deal with security, to deal with courts, levy to perform what should be the first task to deal with police? These are the functions of government, to allow us to share some of of government which should come first. the risk that the natural disasters of this con- These are the core functions; they are not the

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1335

‘nice to have’. What does this say about the been house fires. I am yet to see, for those priorities of this government? More impor- four people, the contrived outrage about oc- tantly, what does it say about this govern- cupational health and safety that I see in ment’s lack of ability to prioritise? New South Wales at the moment. Why should taxpayers be asked to fork The truth is that there is a little hook to out extra? The government has completely this tax that the government does not tell you failed to answer that question. It has shown, about. The Prime Minister promised that no- however, that its priorities are all wrong. In a one impacted by the floods would pay the budget of more than $350 billion this year levy. I suppose that promise will soon go the and, without any shadow of a doubt, of sub- way of the ‘there will be no carbon tax under stantially more than that next year, why is the government I lead’ commitment that there no scope for savings of under one per Prime Minister Gillard made before the last cent to perform the first tasks of govern- election—because it is simply not true. ment? But no—this government wanted to Those receiving the disaster income recovery contrive a tax argument because it loves subsidy are not exempt from the tax. Those nothing more than a ‘Let us try and soak the receiving the Centrelink payment for tempo- rich; let us try and turn some Australians rary accommodation—those who could not against other Australians.’ That is what it is access their houses or who had lost power— doing with the carbon tax. Some Australians are exempt. But those receiving the business are worthy of being punished with punitive recovery grants, whether they be farmers, tax rates; other Australians are worthy of small business people or business employees government largesse. In this case, it has who could not work—those people are not again drawn the line at $50,000 or $100,000 exempt from the tax. The payments they re- and said that those below that are worthy ceive are exempt from the tax. But in the Australians. The class war rhetoric from the next financial year, if those Australians— Labor Party does not die—this government particularly those in Queensland—earn more wants to turn some Australians against other than $50,000, they are going to be stung with Australians. the flood levy. Yet again, the Labor Party is That has been the one consistent theme of seeking to turn some Australians against the Australian Labor Party going right back other Australians. There are thousands of to the days when it opposed Federation and Queenslanders who are going to pay this right back to the days when it was the true levy who might have lost business stock or intellectual father of the White Australia pol- who might not have been able to work. Be- icy. It has always sought to turn some against cause they did not lose access to their home others. All this trouble, all of this division, all for 24 hours, they are not exempt from pay- of this wish to turn some Australians against ing the flood levy. each other—for $1.8 billion. I consider that To thousands of small business people to be a lot of money, but that is half of what who suffered, perhaps because they or their they spent on an insulation program which employees could not get to work due to they were warned was not going to work. transport in South-east Queensland not func- And it is less than what they are spending to tioning for that short period, and to the farm- fix the problem they created—the problem ers who lost crops—and the people I have that now we have dangerous roofs. Four spoken to are hoping that they are back on people who were working in electrified, foil their feet come next financial year—this insulated roofs have died, and there have government is going to do what it is doing

CHAMBER 1336 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 with every other tax. It is planning to take Tax Rates Amendment (Temporary Flood with one hand and give with the other, be- and Cyclone Reconstruction Levy) Bill 2011 cause those small businesses, those farmers and they are points on which I am in com- and those employees are going to be stung plete accord. The legislation seeks to imple- with this flood tax if they earn more than ment the government’s announcements from $50,000. That, quite frankly, again betrays January this year after the catastrophic the doublespeak of the Labor Party on this floods. We all recognise that the events over issue. You promised that no-one impacted by the summer were of a kind which requires a the floods would pay the levy and that is ob- unique and demanding response from the jectively a false statement—many thousands federal government and from the govern- of Australians who were directly impacted ments in all those states where catastro- by the floods will pay the levy. Only those phes—and that is what they were—occurred who had restricted access to their homes or during the summer period. damage to their homes are exempt from this But this is an ill-conceived piece of legis- levy. That leaves thousands of community lation. I think we on this side are all in ac- leaders, small business people and farmers to cord about that. It is an ill-conceived piece of be hit with a tax burden in the year they need legislation, even though its various compo- it least—when they are recovering from the nents seem to make a kind of elegant state- natural disasters that we saw in Australia ment about how one might address the issue. earlier this year. The $1.8 billion flood levy is part of it as are This government’s lack of priorities about the spending cuts of $2.8 billion. Those cuts the very basic functions of government is are a seduction because they suggest that the betrayed by this tax. Rather than pull out the government is trying and committed to re- budget and a red pen—in $350 billion it can- ducing excesses in its budget. But they do not find $1.8 billion to ensure that it can per- not go far enough from our perspective. The form this basic task of government without third component is the delay in some infra- levying an extra tax—this government hits structure projects, freeing up some funds. On Australians. It then hits Australians with the its face, it looks like a complete package. But class war rhetoric that we had really thought so much of what is being done depends and was a remnant of university political science rests on the very foolish, very ill-conceived departments, a rhetoric that has no place in and unnecessary flood levy proposed in this modern Australia. As people, many of whom legislation. were directly impacted by these floods and This is not the best way to deal with an many of whom suffered significant financial emergency and this is not the best way to loss, get these tax bills next year, this gov- deal with this particular emergency. Clearly ernment will be held to account for this there are other reasons for introducing this flawed policy and its complete lack of ability particular approach. It is another reflection, I to prioritise its own activities. think, of the Gillard government’s absolute Senator TROOD (Queensland) (5.57 economic and financial incompetence. It is a pm)—It is a great honour to follow such an reflection of the fact that when a problem eloquent speech by my colleague from Victo- occurs, when a need arises, when a public ria. I think Senator Ryan has made some policy issue emerges the Gillard govern- very telling points on the Tax Laws Amend- ment’s solution—as indeed it was for the ment (Temporary Flood and Cyclone Recon- Rudd government—is a spasm response. It is struction Levy) Bill 2011 and the Income almost a spasm response to a set of circum-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1337 stances. Their only solution to the problem is additional cost-of-living pressure on fami- to tax and, of course, to tax again. Part of the lies, and I think he is right to say that. The reason for this particular instinct is a reflec- question then is: in light of these circum- tion of the fact that the Gillard government is stances and in light of the ill-conceived na- in coalition with the Greens. At the very ture of this levy, what could we do? foundation of the Greens philosophy is the The coalition, being a responsible coali- belief that the only way to solve most, or tion and taking its task seriously to hold the indeed all, public policy issues is through government to account as it is always deter- increasing the burden on the Australian peo- mined to do, has made a series of proposals ple. where additional cuts could be made without There has been much commentary on this great impact on the people who were, sup- levy and much of the commentary has been posedly, going to be the beneficiaries of this unflattering, as it deserves to be. Saul Eslake, expenditure. There are many parts of the a well-known commentator from the Grattan budget where savings could be made, where Institute in Melbourne, who is well respected there could be a deferral of spending, where for his views, has made the point that this is money could be diverted to the reconstruc- a political choice that the government has tion effort, which we all understand, know made rather than reflecting economic im- and recognise as being necessary, and where peratives. There are alternatives to solve this we could better use Commonwealth funds. particular public policy problem. There are Some solutions could be: partially defer- other ways to spend money and there are ring the water buybacks; delaying funding better ways to design a response to these par- that is unexpended so far in the Building the ticular disasters. One alternative would be to Education Revolution program; redirecting introduce further budget cuts, not the trifling the remaining funds from the Building Better cuts that the government has proposed, but a Regional Cities program; and reducing more determined and more critical introduc- spending on the Automotive Transformation tion of budget cuts. Otherwise we could— Scheme. There could be further cuts to the and this is not necessarily desirable—accept funding of GP superclinics, which have for the short term a larger deficit. barely started. I think the promise was 35 by Part of the problem is that in introducing a this date and we have reached only two or levy there is an amount of churn. As we col- three so far. It is widely recognised that these lect and distribute the money there are, of are unnecessary expenditures. Discontinuing course, administrative costs and the estimate the funding on the National Solar Schools has been that at least part of the levy will go program or discontinuing the reward pay- towards meeting those costs, which is an ment for school improvements program are unnecessary increased burden on the budget. other possibilities. Discontinuing the online If we did not have the levy we could roll out diagnostic tools for parents and teachers pro- the response within the context of the usual gram and discontinuing the helping our kids financial arrangements for the Common- understand finance program are others. Some wealth, and we would probably save several of these programs may have some particular million dollars if not a higher figure. That is value for some members and for some sec- always to be recommended. Industry groups tions of the community. In a Commonwealth do not support the levy. Mr Zimmerman where there is limitless cash and where reve- from the Australian Retailers Association nue is rolling into the coffers without any makes the point that a levy would impose difficulty then some of these programs might

CHAMBER 1338 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 arguably be deserving of funding, but not in for many families it will impose an unneces- these circumstances, not in these difficult sary and increasing burden on people who times in which we are confronted and par- are struggling to make ends meet in very ticularly not in a situation where the Com- difficult circumstances. They do not need to monwealth faces the primary burden of un- have that imposed upon them, particularly in dertaking the reconstruction as a result of the such a highly inefficient way for what is a floods and the events of the summer period. relatively small amount of money. If we are able to identify some of these, if We also remain unclear as to the full costs we are able to be rigorous and vigorous in of the flood recovery. An estimate has been our determination to impose these savings made but it may well blow out to a very measures then, of course, in my state of much larger figure and the levy may turn out Queensland we would have an opportunity to to be a very small amount of the money re- do the things which remain to be done and quired. We on this side think the government which now seem likely to be postponed. For should rethink this plan. I suppose the possi- example, things such as the duplication of bility that this is going to occur is some- sections of the Bruce Highway; the project in where between nought and nothing. We have relation to the Herbert River floodplain very low expectations but the reality is that it study; the realignment, again, of the Bruce is wasting our money and it is unnecessary. Highway to provide flood-proof access, We have questions which deserve an an- which is a long-term concern of many of my swer. I hope the minister might address some Queensland constituents, particularly in the of these concerns in the committee stage of north of the state, could be done. There are this bill. We are told the levy will raise $1.8 needs out there which are greater than those billion, but there is no clear estimate of the for which money has been outlaid. They are damage at this point in time, so I think we not going to be cut but could well be cut. are entitled to ask: how reliable is the esti- What we have here is a situation where there mate of the costs that have already been are many opportunities for savings. There are made for recovery? Is this a precedent for many needs which might be substituted. The future disasters? Is this what we are going to Gillard government has failed to undertake face into the future? Every time a disaster the rigorous assessment which is necessary. comes along and the Labor government is in This levy will impose obligations and fur- power, are we going to have yet another levy ther burdens on taxpayers earning between to try and address the issue? Is this a com- $50,000 and $100,000. In all likelihood they fortable way for this government to address will pay something in the vicinity of $250 this problem. more tax. The levy is in addition—and Sena- Senator Sherry—You had six. tor Ryan was making this point quite elo- Senator TROOD—In better circum- quently—to the $41 billion in new taxes that stances, Minister, in far more compelling the government has either implemented or is circumstances I would venture. What about proposing over the next few years. For the as the question of the state responsibility here yet unquantified carbon tax, which we are for insurance in relation to disaster relief? promised is coming for introduction after My own state, where much of the impact has July 2012, an estimate is $300 per annum for occurred, did not have the insurance that was our households, but will it be greater? This required. That was regrettable indeed. I think tax may not be the one that will break the the argument has been made about the fact back of many families but, at the very least,

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1339 that the cost was going to be too great but it areas where that was necessary and fold the has been unpersuasive. Surely it is a funda- response into the overall budget practice. If it mental responsibility of governments to pro- had done that, we would have been much tect against the kinds of exigencies that oc- more willing to support this piece of legisla- curred on this occasion. tion. There remains the question about exemp- Senator McEWEN (South Australia) tions. Will it include visitors, voluntary con- (6.13 pm)—I too would like to contribute to tributions, ongoing assistance to family and the debate about the Tax Laws Amendment friends? We note that this is an impost on (Temporary Flood and Cyclone Reconstruc- individuals that companies or enterprises will tion Levy) Bill 2011 and Income Tax Rates not be paying. There are questions to be Amendment (Temporary Flood and Cyclone asked, not least the questions which arise Reconstruction Levy) Bill 2011. Like most about the deal that the government has done Australians, I stared in disbelief at the con- to secure passage of this legislation through fronting scenes before me on my television the parliament. Mr Wilkie from the House of of the Queensland floods earlier in the year Representatives is said to have extracted a and soon after of the flooding in western and promise of something in the vicinity of $50 central Victoria. It was to be the worst flood- million for tertiary education for his vote in ing in our history. Homes, businesses, crops, support of the legislation. Senator Fielding is livestock and, most devastatingly of all, lives said to have secured something in the vicin- were lost. To make things worse, after the ity of $500 million for aid for Victorian re- absolute destruction of the floods Queen- construction efforts. Deals have been done slanders had to endure Cyclone Yasi, the which are costly, which increase the burden second natural disaster to strike the state on the purse of the Commonwealth and within a couple of weeks. which will increase the deficit just to get this We are fortunate to live in Australia but, piece of legislation through the parliament unfortunately, our country also comes with because, as it stood, it was unpersuasive. The some of the most extreme and unforgiving case was weak and individuals had to be weather conditions of any nation; it goes bought off to ensure that the legislation from one harsh extreme to another. It often would be passed. seems that, while one side of the country In summary, we abhor this piece of legis- suffers through severe droughts, heatwaves lation. We recognise that the Commonwealth and bushfires, the other side of the country is has a primary responsibility to respond to the waterlogged and battening down the hatches challenges which are now before it in rela- in fear of tropical cyclones. As a South Aus- tion to flood reconstruction and disaster re- tralian, as indeed you are, Madam Acting construction more generally, but this piece of Deputy President Hurley, we know that we legislation is ill conceived. It is bad eco- have experienced both floods and droughts nomic management. It is unfairly taxing a but fortunately, so far, not cyclones. Through significant proportion of the Australian popu- all those times, I am always heartened by the lation. A much better solution overall would generosity of Australians when they respond have been if the government had used this to tragedy affecting other Australians. In opportunity to cut unnecessary spending, of times of need, the Australian people really do which there is a great deal in the budget—I know how to open their hearts and their wal- failed to mention the NBN, which is always lets in order to help others. a useful candidate—retain core spending in

CHAMBER 1340 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

In the case of the floods this year, hun- Queensland is simply enormous. It may very dreds of thousands of people have pledged well be that these floods are the most costly their support to the various disaster funds disaster in Australian history. It is in our na- and relief efforts by donating their time, tion’s best interests, certainly in its economic monetary gifts or household items to help best interests, to rebuild the great state of others. I think all of those individuals should Queensland as soon as we can. It is for that be thanked for doing so. What has also been reason that the federal Labor government wonderful to see is the number of people have introduced the package of bills that we volunteering in the cleanup efforts. Over are debating here today—the temporary 10,000 people arrived at the Brisbane City flood levy bills—which will assist so much Council’s four volunteer centres the weekend in the reconstruction process. I know the op- following the flooding to help clean up in position, as they usually do when they have some of the worst-hit flood areas. Another nothing constructive to say or to contribute 2,000 volunteers registered to get their hands to a debate, like to claim as they have done dirty in Ipswich, and they were joined by here that this spending initiative is just an- thousands of others who did not register but other tax on the Australian people. Let me who simply stopped and offered to help peo- tell you right now that those opposite me ple in need. It has been mentioned in this here today are wrong. This is a one-off levy place before that Queensland recorded a that is one part of a comprehensive recon- shortage of gumboots due to the overwhelm- struction effort by the Australian government ing number of people looking to lend a help- in concert with the Queensland government, ing hand, and I think that is indicative of the because no single level of government or Australian spirit. As well as the volunteers community sector would ever be able to af- and the people who ran projects to assist oth- ford to do this alone. This is why the federal ers, as I said, there were a great number of government is choosing through this legisla- Australians who donated money to the relief tion to impose a modest charge on taxpayers efforts through the Queensland Premier’s who have not suffered through the disaster. Disaster Relief Appeal. Australian people, Many of us donated money to the Queen- businesses and communities reached into sland Premier’s Disaster Relief Appeal and their pockets to help others. The tally of do- other appeals but we know that that will not nations for that flood appeal surged to well be enough. There are roads, highways, ports, over the $200 million mark, and money is railway lines and public facilities which all still coming in. So many Queensland resi- need to be rebuilt. That reconstruction effort dents in particular had little or no time to is going take time and is going to need a lot prepare for the floods and walked away with of money. Initial estimates put the cost to the only the clothes that they were wearing. Commonwealth at some $5.6 billion. That is Many residents lost everything. The Pre- almost 30 times more than the money which mier’s Disaster Relief Appeal and other ap- is currently in the Queensland Premier’s peals like that are there to help those people flood relief fund. to replace their day-to-day needs. I believe that the coalition is well and Of course, while the generosity and kind- truly out of touch with the Australian public ness of Australians has been outstanding, we on this issue. A good barometer of what the must not forget that the damage to infrastruc- public thinks about something is the traffic to ture that has been caused by the floods is an electorate office in terms of phone calls, unprecedented and the task of rebuilding emails et cetera. My electorate office in

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1341

South Australia has not received any nega- natural disaster in 2010-11 and those people tive feedback at all regarding the flood levy who did not receive an AGDRP but who being proposed in this legislation. The meet at least one of the criteria and live in a phones have remained unusually quiet on an natural disaster and recovery zone will be issue that will require some taxpayers to pay exempt from the flood levy. Additionally, a small amount of money. The phones have New Zealand special class visa holders who remained unusually quiet, despite the opposi- are ineligible for the AGDRP but who still tion’s hysteria around this issue. Unlike those received an ex gratia payment from the gov- opposite, I believe a great percentage of the ernment as a result of the natural disasters public actually agrees with the flood levy will also be exempt from the flood levy. because they know and understand that this For those people who are not exempt from is a one-off measure designed for extraordi- the levy, I must say that the impost is very nary circumstances. Australians understand reasonable. For most taxpayers, it will be a why the government also makes donations to very modest charge. The levy takes into ac- other nations that have suffered disasters, count people’s different earning capacities such as its provision of $10 million to the and subsequently their capacity to contribute people of Japan to help that poor country to the flood reconstruction. Approximately deal with the aftermath of the unbelievable 50 per cent of taxpayers will not have to con- devastation there following the earthquake tribute to the levy whatsoever. The levy will and tsunami. Australians understand that only be applicable to those taxpayers earning those who have should give to those who over $50,000 in the 2011-12 tax year. Of have not. So it is always disappointing to see those people, over 60 per cent will pay less the opposition playing political games, trying than $1 a week, over 70 per cent of people to win political points and making political will pay less than $2 a week and over 85 per mileage out of the hardship, in this case, of cent of people will pay less than $5 a week. the Queenslanders and, to a lesser extent, the So, an Australian earning the average adult Victorians and the South Australians who full-time wage of approximately $68,000, suffered from the floods. The federal Labor will pay $1.74 each week. That is a lot less government is not relying on the implemen- than a cup of coffee each week. As we can tation of the levy alone to raise much needed see, it is a very moderate, reasonable and— funds. We have regrettably had to impose importantly—one-off temporary measure to spending cuts and have delayed a number of assist in rebuilding not just Queensland but infrastructure projects to ensure that we do the whole nation. have the financial ability to assist Queen- Applying this flood levy will mean that sland to rebuild. we can rebuild Queensland without com- The amendments to the existing legisla- pounding the stresses on our growing econ- tion that we are debating here tonight are not omy. I note that the task of rebuilding this going to affect each and every taxpayer in state is set to increase demands on our capac- the same way. To reduce any financial stress ity, our skills and our resources. Those are on those who have already been involved in just some of the things that we are going to the floods, the bills ensure that those people have to deal with as we take on the issue of affected by natural disaster will not have to rebuilding Queensland. contribute to the levy. Therefore, taxpayers I noted earlier this month that the Deputy who have already received an Australian Prime Minister, Mr Wayne Swan, together government disaster recovery payment for a

CHAMBER 1342 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 with Queensland Premier Anna Bligh, an- industry, an industry that employs hundred of nounced the signing of the national partner- thousands of people across the country. In an ship for natural disaster reconstruction and echo of the policies of One Nation, the oppo- recovery. In signing the agreement, Mr Swan sition has also said that it would defer some said that $2 billion of Commonwealth fund- $400 million in overseas development aid. ing will go out the door right now and Overseas development aid—foreign aid, as it straight into needy Queensland communities. is usually known—as even Mr Alexander Included in the agreement is $50 million Downer, a former Leader of the Opposition, specifically aimed at the facilitation of the said, is in our national interest, particularly recovery process in North Queensland fol- when we are spending it in Indonesia, a re- lowing Cyclone Yasi. Additionally, in line gion targeted for aid cuts by the opposition. with the government’s resolve to see that In Senate estimates earlier this month, I infrastructure is rebuilt appropriately and had the opportunity to discuss our foreign aid efficiently, there are strong auditing and re- budget and, in particular, our aid to schools porting requirements in place to monitor the in Indonesia with representatives from spending of taxpayer’s funds. The govern- AusAID. I learnt that so far our Australian ment does not want to see any waste whatso- aid has contributed to the construction of ever and the agreement provides for the Re- more than 2,000 schools. AusAID anticipates construction Inspectorate, led by Mr Jon that a similar number will be constructed Fahey AC, to oversee reconstruction activity. with continued funding generating more than That will provide assurance that value for 300,000 new school places. Those are new money is being achieved across the board for school places for Indonesian students in ar- the disaster response. eas where the only other alternative for educ- The opposition’s knee-jerk response of tion would be in radical religious schools. trying to find funding for the disaster recov- We are all well aware of how important it is ery is a far cry from this well-thought-out for our neighbours in Indonesia to ensure plan of the government’s. Many people were that their students—their young people— very alarmed to hear the Leader of the Oppo- have the opportunity for a decent education, sition, Mr Tony Abbott, say that the coalition not a radical education. We know how im- would fund the rebuilding of Queensland portant it is for them to ensure that girls in through the deferral of some funding as well particular in Indonesia are able to attend as through a great many funding cuts rather school and undertake a curriculum that will than introduce a sensible, temporary, one-off set them up for life, either in occupations or levy. We are grateful—and I am sure that the in further education. This point was rein- people of Queensland are grateful—that the forced in the discussion with AusAID at opposition is not in government. After over a Senate estimates. It is a great shame that one decade of spending cuts at the hands of the of the first things that the opposition put for- former coalition government, Mr Abbott has ward as a way to fund the reconstruction of angered many Australians by proposing a Queensland was to cease funding for that range of new spending cuts to offset the need very important Australian aid initiative. for a temporary levy. Should, heaven forbid, The point was made that another item that the coalition ever secure government, those was immediately targeted for funding cuts by funding cuts would never be reinstated. the opposition was water buybacks in the The opposition, for example, has sug- Murray-Darling Basin. That did not go down gested cuts of $500 million to the automotive too well in South Australia, where we are

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1343 very concerned about the future of not only the cost to the public purse of repairing the the river but the communities that rely on the infrastructure damage we have seen, such as river for their livelihoods. To have this off- roads, bridges, ports and railways, will be the-cuff ill-thought-out proposal from the approximately $5.6 billion. This would mean federal opposition to get rid of, or defer for that it is one of the most significant disasters, however long, the opposition proposed, $600 if not the most significant one, in monetary million of water buybacks did not go down terms that Australia has seen. This does not too well in South Australia. It was typical of include the obvious cost to individuals that is the lack of planning and lack of thought that also of great significance and will not be the opposition have in regard to the Murray- finalised until insurance claims are com- Darling Basin. For them, it is just an expend- pleted. able thing. They have no intention of seri- We are moving into the recovery phase ously addressing the problems with the ba- and it is clear that there will be a need to re- sin. build large amounts of public infrastructure. While the opposition is focusing its atten- Many Australians have already generously tion on trying to cut money from areas of donated to charitable funds to assist people need in the Australian community, the gov- affected by the floods. Charities will use ernment is instead continuously thinking of these funds to help people directly to bounce ways to improve the lives of all of those af- back from the disasters. This levy on the fected by the recent disasters. Earlier this other hand is contributing funding to rebuild month, the Deputy Prime Minister, Premier damaged essential infrastructure, such as the Bligh and the Minister for Tourism, Martin roads, bridges, ports and railways that I have Ferguson, launched ‘Nothing beats Queen- mentioned. And, as I mentioned, the cost of sland’, an aptly named marketing strategy to rebuilding infrastructure is in the order of promote the state to Australia and to the $5.6 billion. The government will fund the world in these difficult times. majority of the cost through spending cuts. Sitting suspended from 6.30 pm to The remainder will be provided by this tem- 7.30 pm porary—and I stress, temporary—flood and cyclone reconstruction levy. In an economy Senator SHERRY (Tasmania—Minister that is growing strongly it is important that for Small Business, Minister Assisting on we pay as we go. Deregulation and Public Sector Superannua- tion and Minister Assisting the Minister for In terms of the spending cuts that I have Tourism) (7.30 pm)—The Tax Laws mentioned, they approximate $2.8 billion. Amendment (Temporary Flood and Cyclone This includes removing industry assistance Reconstruction Levy) Bill 2011 and Income and cutting back some other programs by Tax Rates Amendment (Temporary Flood abolishing, for example, the Green Car Inno- and Cyclone Reconstruction Levy) Bill 2011 vation Fund and the Cleaner Car Rebate are very important pieces of legislation. I Scheme, and making some other cuts. There would like to thank the senators who have will be a $1 billion delay in some infrastruc- contributed to the debate on the bills. ture projects. This will free up both funds and skilled workers, which is particularly As we are all aware, the recent disasters important at a time of skilled labour short- around Australia have had a massive impact ages around the country. in human terms and on property and infra- structure. Costs vary but it appears as though

CHAMBER 1344 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

The Tax Laws Amendment (Temporary The levy will end on midnight of 30 June Flood and Cyclone Reconstruction Levy) 2012. The levy will be progressive and based Bill 2011 and the Income Tax Rates on an individual’s ability to pay. The Austra- Amendment (Temporary Flood and Cyclone lian income tax system is based on the indi- Reconstruction Levy) Bill 2011 introduce a vidual, which achieves fair treatment be- modest one-off, temporary levy that will end tween individuals and is simpler to under- at midnight on 30 June 2012. There has been stand for taxpayers. For this reason the levy a fair amount of criticism from some mem- is based on taxable income earned by indi- bers of the Liberal and National parties in viduals which is assessable income less al- respect of this legislation. I remind them that lowable deductions. This is the same income this is not the first time over the past decade base used for previous levies, levies that I that this parliament has seen a levy in re- have referred to earlier in this debate such as sponse to a particular set of unusual and spe- the East Timor levy and the gun buyback cial circumstances. I have been in this place levy. These levies that I have just mentioned for almost 21 years and I can recall a number involved an increase in the Medicare levy, of other levies under the previous Liberal which is based on taxable income. and National government. A couple come to Anyone with a taxable income in 2011-12 mind. I think there were about half a dozen. of $50,000 or less will not pay the levy. Tax- We had one in respect to the Ansett collapse, payers with taxable incomes between which I am sure people would remember. $50,001 and $100,000 will pay a levy of 0.5 They may not recall that there was a levy on per cent—half a per cent—on that part of airline tickets to pay for the cost of the col- their taxable income over $50,000. Taxpay- lapse of Ansett Airlines. We had a levy in ers with a taxable income over $100,000 will respect to the gun buyback. We had a levy in pay a levy of 0.5 per cent on that part of their respect to East Timor. We had a levy in re- taxable income between $50,000 and spect to the milk industry. We had a levy in $100,000 and a levy of one per cent on that respect to the sugar industry. There was one part of their taxable income over $100,000. other that does not quite spring to mind. Let me give an example. A taxpayer with a In the critique by those opposite of this taxable income of $60,000 a year will pay a government’s approach, we have massive levy of 96c a week. A taxpayer with a tax- hypocrisy. They have condemned and criti- able income of $100,000 a year will pay cised this government for its temporary, one- $4.81 a week. Importantly, taxpayers af- off levy when they in fact resorted to the fected by the recent disasters—not just the same approach on at least six occasions floods but also Cyclone Yasi and the Western when they were in government from 1996 Australian bushfires and floods—will not through to 2007. On six occasions they re- have to pay this levy if they meet certain sorted to levies and some of them went for a criteria. damn sight longer than the levy that is pro- The legislative instrument under which posed in this legislation. The Ansett levy these bills provide for the minister to exempt went for a couple of years. The milk and people from the levy will provide an exemp- sugar levies went for longer than a year, al- tion for those who have received an Austra- though I cannot recall the exact time. So in lian government disaster recovery payment this legislation we are not dealing with any- for a disaster that occurred in 2010-11. There thing that is conceptually new. will also be an exemption for those who are ineligible for an Australian government dis-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1345 aster recovery payment but have been af- Ayes………… 31 fected by a disaster declared under the Na- Noes………… 29 tional Disaster Recovery and Relief Ar- Majority……… 2Â rangements and meet at least one of the Aus- tralian government disaster recovery pay- AYES ment criteria. There will be a further exemp- Arbib, M.V. Bilyk, C.L. tion for non-protected New Zealand special Bishop, T.M. Brown, B.J. category visa holders who received an ex Brown, C.L. Cameron, D.N. gratia payment from the government in rela- Crossin, P.M. Farrell, D.E. tion to a disaster that occurred in 2010-11. Faulkner, J.P. Feeney, D. Fielding, S. Forshaw, M.G. The levy will be paid through the tax Furner, M.L. Hanson-Young, S.C. withheld from regular wages and salaries Hurley, A. Hutchins, S.P. like personal income tax and the Medicare Ludlam, S. Lundy, K.A. levy that is already paid. But if employees Marshall, G. McEwen, A. * are exempt from the levy they can ask their McLucas, J.E. Moore, C. O’Brien, K.W.K. Polley, H. employer not to have the levy withheld from Pratt, L.C. Sherry, N.J. their regular pay. Alternatively, at the end of Siewert, R. Stephens, U. the year the ATO will assess a taxpayer’s tax Sterle, G. Wortley, D. liability, taking into account their exemption Xenophon, N. from the levy. NOES Once again I would like to thank members Back, C.J. Barnett, G. of the Senate for their contribution to the Bernardi, C. Birmingham, S. debate on these bills, which are of great im- Boyce, S. Bushby, D.C. portance for Australia’s response to the re- Cash, M.C. Coonan, H.L. Cormann, M.H.P. Eggleston, A. cent devastating disasters. Before I conclude Fifield, M.P. Fisher, M.J. my remarks and sit down, I note the Attor- Heffernan, W. Humphries, G. ney-General has issued a determination as to Johnston, D. Joyce, B. the 2011 National Disaster Relief and Re- Kroger, H. Macdonald, I. covery Arrangements which amends the Mason, B.J. Minchin, N.H. NDRRA determination of 2007 to strengthen Nash, F. Parry, S. * arrangements ensuring that state and territory Payne, M.A. Ronaldson, M. Ryan, S.M. Scullion, N.G. governments have adequate capital or insur- Troeth, J.M. Trood, R.B. ance to fund restoration and replacement of Williams, J.R. infrastructure following a disaster. A new PAIRS guideline is attached to the 2011 determina- tion providing details of how the strength- Carr, K.J. Abetz, E. Collins, J. Adams, J. ened arrangements can be fulfilled. I table Conroy, S.M. Boswell, R.L.D. the determination as to the 2011 National Evans, C.V. Brandis, G.H. Disaster Relief and Recovery Arrangements. Hogg, J.J. Colbeck, R. Question put: Ludwig, J.W. Ferguson, A.B. Milne, C. Fierravanti-Wells, C. That these bills be now read a second time. Wong, P. McGauran, J.J.J. The Senate divided. [7.47 pm] * denotes teller (The Acting Deputy President—Senator Question agreed to. JM Troeth)

CHAMBER 1346 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Bills read a second time. must have reasonably adequate capital or In Committee access to capital’ and a range of details are listed. Under 4.6 it says, ‘State must submit Bills—by leave—taken as a whole. independent assessment of state insurance Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) arrangements’. A number of subparagraphs (7.50 pm)—I note that the minister has ta- flow from there to the middle of page 9. bled the Natural Disaster Relief and Recov- They are new. On page 10 under 5.13, it ery Arrangements Determination 2001 (Ver- says, ‘Reduction in state of assistance’. That sion 1.0). I also note that attached to that paragraph outlines the action taken if a state document is a Natural Disaster Relief and fails to take appropriate action within a rea- Recovery Arrangements Guideline 12011. If sonable time. They are new provisions. I can take the minister to the differences be- Before we move to the next part and the tween this and the 2007 document, so that it mechanism which Senator Xenophon has is placed on the record and that there is no mentioned, I can acknowledge the senator’s ambiguity in how this would operate, is the positive contribution in seeking the inclusion minister in a position to indicate the key dif- of these provisions in the document. It is a ferences between this document and the consequence of his discussions and, indeed, 2007 document? Perhaps if I could get the insistence that these new provisions will be minister, for the sake of time, to confirm if placed in the determination. the key differences with this document are clauses 4.5, 4.6 and 5.13 which relate to the Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) requirement for the states to have reasonably (7.54 pm)—I thank the minister for that. I adequate access to capital in relation to in- refer to the insurance requirements guideline surance, and they need to look at, but are not under the natural disaster relief and recovery limited to, mechanisms such as commercial arrangements 2011. Could the minister con- insurance, reinsurance, any state COAG re- firm that the manner in which the determina- insurance fund or pool and state department tions are made by the Attorney-General will premium contributions—that is, internal state be in accordance with those guidelines and funds. will involve a forensic look at the way the states go about seeking either insurance or Further, could the minister confirm that reinsurance and also arrangements to ensure under 4.6 of the NDRRA the state must sub- they have reasonably adequate capital to mit independent assessment of state insur- cover a natural disaster? ance arrangements and that the Common- wealth will conduct a review of the state’s Senator SHERRY (Tasmania—Minister independent assessment in conjunction with for Small Business, Minister Assisting on the state? I want confirmation of that and Deregulation and Public Sector Superannua- some of the mechanics, which I will get to tion and Minister Assisting the Minister for shortly. Tourism) (7.55 pm)—Yes, that is correct. Any person reading the new provisions in Senator SHERRY (Tasmania—Minister this would come to the reasonable conclu- for Small Business, Minister Assisting on sion that it will be a rigorous method. You Deregulation and Public Sector Superannua- used the term ‘forensic’. If you look at the tion and Minister Assisting the Minister for provisions outlined, it is indeed very rigor- Tourism) (7.53 pm)—As Senator Xenophon ous. has outlined, I can confirm that on page 8 of the document I have tabled 4.5 says, ‘State

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1347

Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) from the Prime Minister’s office in relation (7.56 pm)—I want to acknowledge the work to this particular legislation. It is undated, but done by the Prime Minister’s office. There I believe it was received on 3 March. It says, has been a lot of work in amending this ‘The government will ensure that the process document over the last few weeks. I am set out in the attachment to this letter’—the grateful to the Prime Minister’s office for process being the guidelines in identical some very robust discussions and negotia- format—’will become a guideline to the tions in relation to this. I also acknowledge NDRRA and that the provision will have a the advice from John Tsouroutis who is on continuing application.’ I seek leave to table my staff. He was former head of the Territory that document which is a true copy of the Insurance Office in the Northern Territory original. who has provided me with invaluable advice Leave granted. in relation to this. The last time this docu- Senator XENOPHON—I am grateful to ment was amended was back in 2007. I the minister for tabling the document. I think would like to table a document I received that this deals satisfactorily with the con- from the Prime Minister—and I will seek the cerns that I have raised about insurance ar- permission of the opposition to do this— rangements with the states. I think there will which indicates this is a long-term change to now be a fundamental change in the way that the document. When is it proposed to review the states need to consider the insurance of the new determination? I imagine there are their assets. I have supported this levy, but I processes that will take the next 12 months. have done so on the basis that I believe that It is a process that allows for the Auditor- as a result of these new arrangements I can- General to be involved. Could the govern- not imagine circumstances in which a levy ment indicate that they regard this as the de- would be required again, given that there termination that will stand for some time, will now be a rigorous set of arrangements to given what has occurred with the Queen- ensure that the states do the right thing re- sland floods and given the need to ensure garding their assets. This would generally that states and territories behave prudentially involve some form of insurance or reinsur- in relation to insuring or securing their as- ance, or taking other prudential steps, for sets? their assets in the event of a natural disaster. Senator SHERRY (Tasmania—Minister Senator CORMANN (Western Australia) for Small Business, Minister Assisting on (8.00 pm)—On behalf of the opposition, I Deregulation and Public Sector Superannua- thought I would put a few things on the re- tion and Minister Assisting the Minister for cord again. When we started this debate Tourism) (7.57 pm)—I can confirm that this Senator Xenophon had not made up his mind is a new and updated document. It is the yet about how he was going to approach this document that has standing in the context of piece of legislation—I think the negotiations disaster relief and recovery arrangements. with the government were furiously ongo- There is no review period as such set down ing—so I thought I would just go back to for this document. It will continue to have what this is all about. that standing with the amendments that we touched on earlier. What we are dealing with here is yet an- other ad hoc Labor Party tax, which quite Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) frankly should not be required. We are deal- (5.28 pm)—I have just provided Senator ing with this tax because the government has Parry with a copy of the letter I received

CHAMBER 1348 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 fundamentally mismanaged our public fi- What is becoming obvious is that only the nances. Any government that has its public Liberal and National parties will stand up for finances under control should be able to fund lower taxes in this parliament. Only the Lib- the important reconstruction effort in Queen- eral and National parties will be voting sland, which we of course strongly support, against this tax because we do not think this without having to resort to an ad hoc tax in- is the way to run the finances of the Com- troduced in this fashion. monwealth. In a $350 billion budget this I draw the attention of the chamber again government should have been able to repri- to the fact that we are having a budget in oritise all of its wasteful and excessive May. This particular tax is supposed to come spending in other areas to find $1.8 billion, into effect on 1 July 2011. The proper proc- particularly if you consider the $2.4 billion ess to pursue the necessary Commonwealth wasted on pink batts and all of the money funding contribution towards the reconstruc- wasted on school halls. With the money that tion effort in Queensland would have been to is being wasted day-in and day-out by this assess all of the revenue and spending priori- government they cannot find $1.8 billion to ties in the budget and to reprioritise those help fund the necessary and important recon- spending commitments. The point has been struction effort in Queensland. made that our annual budget is about $350 We think it is quite disgraceful that it has billion. This increase in the income tax for come to this. We are very disappointed that all Australians earning more than $50,000, Senator Xenophon has finally succumbed to unless they are exempt, is supposed to raise the Prime Minister’s overtures on this. We $1.8 billion out of a budget of $350 billion. think that this is a bad way to run fiscal pol- The point has been made that if you had icy in Australia. We think the proper way to $350 in your pocket and you had some run fiscal policy in Australia is through a spending commitments do you think you proper budget process. Given the fact that could find $2 in order to deal with an urgent this tax is not to come into effect until 1 July priority? Any Australian knows that they 2011, the more honest and more proper way would be able to do so. to deal with this would have been through Why is the government bringing this tax the budget process when the government on now? It is politics. They know that they should look through all of their spending can take advantage of people’s goodwill to- commitments. wards the people of Queensland, even Bear in mind that the expenditure for the though this is not going to do anything to Queensland reconstruction effort has not rebuild any houses or anything—this is all been properly quantified yet. It is said to be about rebuilding the infrastructure for which about $5.6 billion or thereabouts, but that did the state Labor government in Queensland not include Cyclone Yasi. It is a rough esti- did not take out proper insurance. The Com- mate and it is likely to be more. When we monwealth government wants all Australians asked the finance minister during recent es- earning more than $50,000 to pay more tax timates about what the government will do if because their finances are out of control and the actual spending will have to be more than they cannot reprioritise their spending to find the initial estimate, she said, ‘We will just $1.8 billion, and because the state Labor save some money.’ If you can save money government in Queensland did not take pre- then, why can you not save money now? cautions by taking out appropriate levels of That is a very important question. insurance.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1349

We are dealing with this tax because the only on individuals? I do not have the figures Labor Party instinct is to go for a tax when- in front of me, but I am sure the minister will ever they think they can politically get away so he will be able to tell me what percentage with it. They want to whack it on because of the total tax revenue take do individuals they know of people’s goodwill towards the pay, and what total contribution to the over- people of Queensland and they think this is a all tax take do company, corporate and other tax they can politically get away with. They tax revenues provide. We know the Greens’ are bringing up all these cuddly names for it, penchant for attacking multinationals, those such as ‘flood levy’ and ‘mateship tax’, but it big companies that rip the profits out of Aus- is all politics. It is all about going ahead with tralia and take those profits overseas. We this con at the expense of the Australian peo- hear this from the Greens all the time. ple. Every person across Australia earning Senator Cormann—And Labor. more than $50,000 will have to pay the price Senator IAN MACDONALD—And the for Labor’s mismanagement of our public left wing of Labor, yes, we do hear that— finances. Senator Sherry—And the National Party. Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- sland) (8.05 pm)—I have some questions Senator IAN MACDONALD—No, the that I want to ask that I flagged in my speech National Party is not like that—not when it in the second reading debate. I am surprised comes to ‘ripping all this money out of Aus- to see that the Greens are not here because I tralia and sending the profits overseas’ and indicated that I was particularly keen to get ‘Why aren’t they paying their fair share; we input from the Greens political party on this have to have a mining superprofits tax to levy. As is always the case, when there is not make sure those corporate Bs pay their a photo opportunity Senator Brown is never share.’ Why is it, Minister, that with this re- around. I am very impressed when Senator covery of my state of Queensland, and of Brown rails against multinationals during New South Wales and Victoria and I guess debates on this tax and many other taxes that Western Australia with the fires, it is only the Labor-Green alliance is proposing to in- individuals—read ‘small business men and troduce. I indicated in my speech on the sec- women and wage earners—who are picking ond reading that I was going to ask some up the bill? With these great social engineers questions to the minister about this and I was in the Labor Party and the Greens who do hopeful that the Greens might have been able not want the poor people to pay, only the rich to participate as well. people, why are we having this tax only on individuals and not on those ‘big multina- I also want to ask Senator Xenophon in tional money grabbing companies that send the course of consideration, or ask the minis- all Australia’s profits overseas’? Why is this ter and perhaps Senator Xenophon can con- happening in this way? I am seriously inter- tribute, about this deal that Ms Gillard put to ested to hear the excuse from the minister. I him that encouraged him to support this quite would love to have heard Senator Brown try iniquitous tax. I will come to that question and bumble his way through an answer to later, but the question I want to put to the that. minister at this stage is why is it that this tax, which he and the Greens have told us is so Senator Xenophon has very clearly and absolutely important for the recovery of my actively and aggressively pointed out that state of Queensland—and other states as well this tax is not all about rebuilding Queen- but principally Queensland—is being levied sland. Queensland will be rebuilt, I can as-

CHAMBER 1350 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 sure you. It has been rebuilt after every cy- they are dishonest and they know there clone that has hit that state in the last 150 would be a voter backlash against them. So years. After all the floods and the droughts rather than doing the taxation reform that we have had in Queensland in the last 150 perhaps they think needs to be done, they years, Queensland has been rebuilt and it approach it in a different way. If they did it will be rebuilt again following the most re- out of general revenue, then the really big cent floods and the cyclone. We need a levy earners in Australia—those ‘money grabbing because the Queensland state Labor govern- multinationals who send all of their profits ment is so incompetent, so bereft of any fi- overseas’—would have paid a fair bit to- nancial management skills at all, that it is wards the cost of rebuilding Queensland. broke. Quite clearly, my state government is Those people on $200 million or $300 mil- broke. How is it going to pay for this re- lion a year income would have paid a lot building? It picks up the phone to its Labor towards the cost had it come from general mates in Canberra and says it cannot afford revenue, because we have this progressive to pay for it itself so let us have a levy. taxation system. But, no, we are not doing Queensland have not been sensible enough, that. We are introducing this special flood like South Australia and other states, to take levy. out insurance. Do you know why they did Again, as I pointed out in my speech on not take out insurance? They could not af- the second reading, we have a flood or a ford the premium. I think Senator Xenophon, drought or a cyclone every year. Are we go- through the committee system, has shown— ing to have a flood, drought or cyclone levy or did I read it in the paper?—that the pre- every year? This is why I have predicted, as I mium is $50-$55 million. They could not did in my speech on the second reading, that afford it so they winged it, knowing that this flood levy will become a permanent part when things went bad their mates in the La- of the Australian taxation system while La- bor Party in Canberra would come to their bor is in power, because they simply cannot rescue. be trusted with money—they cannot manage But their mates in the Labor Party in Can- money, they cannot manage taxation and that berra are not coming to the rescue out of the is why, when anything happens, they bung general revenue; they are going to impose a on a new tax. special levy—not on the money grabbing It is a long preamble to my question, but I multinational companies that send all their want to get from the minister the understand- profits overseas but on individuals, Austra- ing, the policy reason as to why only indi- lians, who cannot send their profits overseas viduals are paying for the rebuilding of my even if they want to. If you are a decent gov- state of Queensland—not companies, not the ernment worried about social equity, multinationals which are ripping the profits wouldn’t you say to the Australian public, out of Australia and sending them overseas. ‘Look, the progressive taxation system that Why are they getting a free ride when it has been so important in Australia over many comes to rebuilding my state, New South years has got out of kilter a bit and the poor Wales, Victoria and Western Australia? What people are paying too much and the rich is the policy rationale for doing that? Now people are not paying enough.’ Wouldn’t you do not get up and say, Minister, that you have think you would say, ‘Let’s adjust the tax a Medicare levy and that is how it works system, let’s make it more progressive.’ But, there, so this is how it will work here. This is no, the Labor Party will not do that, because supposed to be all about rebuilding my state

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1351 and others after massive floods because my Senator IAN MACDONALD—It is em- state government was too incompetent to barrassing. have money aside to do it themselves. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN Senator Nash interjecting— (Senator Troeth)—Senator Macdonald, pay Senator IAN MACDONALD—It is a no heed to interjections. Please proceed with Labor government in Queensland; it is broke. your speech. That does not surprise anyone. Senator IAN MACDONALD—I would Senator Cormann—That is what hap- be embarrassed if I were a member of the pens when Labor is in government for too Australian Labor Party and I was exempted long. from paying this tax. I and Senator McLucas know a lot of people who really did not want Senator IAN MACDONALD—Absol- the $1,000. Do you know why they took it? utely, Senator Cormann. Senator Cash raised Senator McLucas knows. Because they the point about how the minister determines would not have to pay the tax then. That is a class of individuals who will be exempt. true. Senator McLucas does know people. Senator Xenophon might be interested in We both know the same people who took the that. I made the quite ridiculous comment $1,000—they donated it to charity—but they that perhaps the minister could exclude peo- will not be subject to the tax any more. What ple who were members of the Australian La- sort of legislation is this? Minister can you bor Party. Not for a moment do I think the tell me please the policy rationale—I was minister would do that, but, as I read the leg- hoping Senator Bob Brown would be here to islation, he could. It will not help you, Sena- assist you in an answer—behind the fact that tor Xenophon. You do not have a political individuals will pay for the rebuilding of party, so they cannot exclude the Xenophon Queensland but not all of those mining com- independents from paying it but they could panies which, according to Senator Brown exclude the Australian Labor Party from do- and some in the Labor Left, are ripping bil- ing it. This is legislation we are going to pass lions of dollars out of the ground in Queen- tonight. Would you believe that? The minis- sland. If I read Senator Brown correctly, he ter can determine a class of individuals for is accusing those coal-mining companies of the purposes of subsection (2)—that is, pay- being a cause of the floods and the cyclones. ing a tax—if the minister is satisfied that the Are they going to contribute any of their in- class was affected by a natural disaster which come to the recovery of Queensland? Why happened in Australia between July 2010 and are they exempt? Why is it that these multi- 2012. I can tell you now that there are some national companies, which are ripping bil- members of the Australian Labor Party in the lions of dollars out of the ground in Queen- north and in Queensland who have been af- sland and, according to Senator Brown, caus- fected. Perhaps they could be excluded. As I ing the floods and the cyclones—going to be say, not for a moment do I suggest that the let off scot-free, but in my home town my minister would do that but there has to be butcher and my baker will be paying this some constraint on it. I will come back to levy? BHP and Rio will not be. Woolworths that later. At this stage, my question to you, and Coles will not be. Why should my Minister, is— butcher and baker have to pay this levy but Senator Carol Brown—That’s embar- Coles and Woolworths do not? Why do Rio rassing. and BHP escape scot-free from rebuilding Queensland when my motor mechanic will

CHAMBER 1352 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 have to contribute to the levy? I would be excuse that Senator Cormann has. Senator very interested, Minister, if you could set me Cormann has not been in this parliament for right on the policy reason. Please tell me I too long and would not know some of the have misread the bill. history behind levies. Senator SHERRY (Tasmania—Minister If you want the truth, Senator Macdonald, for Small Business, Minister Assisting on we were inspired in our approach by none Deregulation and Public Sector Superannua- other than the former Liberal-National Party tion and Minister Assisting the Minister for government of which you were a member. Tourism) (8.20 pm)—In a long, rambling, We were inspired by the Liberal-National contradictory and somewhat repetitive con- Party government in our levy approach—you tribution from Senator Macdonald, there had six of them when you were in that gov- were two questions, which I will go to. He ernment, Senator Macdonald. If we include asked for the contribution of major taxes—it the super surcharge, there were seven. is in budget paper No. 1 as a percentage of I am showing my age, but in 1996 we had Commonwealth tax revenue. In respect of this promise: ‘No increase in taxes, no new personal income tax it is 45 per cent of total taxes and no increase in existing taxes.’ And Commonwealth revenue, company tax 22 what were we presented with after the elec- per cent, GST 17 per cent. The second issue tion? Senator Macdonald knows because he went to exemptions. We have restricted the was here. We were presented with the super scope of exemptions to those affected by surcharge. Do you know how much this tem- disasters in the legislation in the form and porary levy or surcharge raised? It raised manner which I read out in my concluding $1.48 billion. It was a temporary superan- remarks to debate on the legislation. We pub- nuation surcharge, but do you know how lished the draft determination on the Treas- long it went on for? It lasted nine years. This ury website. temporary super surcharge lasted nine years. Senator Ian Macdonald—Do you think Senator Macdonald and quite a number of us we might get it tabled here? know that because we received surcharge Senator SHERRY—It is on the Treasury statements and we are still getting them. Do website. not come into this place and give us a lecture about levies when we have seen the impact Senator Ian Macdonald—This is the of the super surcharge. Despite the election chamber of the parliament. Perhaps it might promise of those opposite that there would be tabled here. be no new taxes, that super surcharge went The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN for nine years—well beyond when the (Senator Troeth)—I understand it has been budget went back into surplus. tabled, Senator Macdonald. But there is more inspiration. There was Senator SHERRY—Senator Macdonald the milk levy. It raised $1.74 billion thanks asked a series of questions—in, as I said, a to the National Party. How long did the milk somewhat rambling and repetitive manner— levy last? I do not think most Australians about where the government had drawn its knew that they paid a milk levy. I think it inspiration from for this levy approach. was 11c. It went for nine years. Again, that is Senator Macdonald and I came into the Sen- a far longer period than it took for the budget ate together in 1990. Senator Macdonald has to go into surplus, Senator Macdonald. That been in this place for the same length of time was the milk levy. There was the sugar I have, almost 21 years. He does not have the

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1353 levy—the third levy under the previous Lib- Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- eral-National Party government. It raised $86 sland) (8.27 pm)—I will not thank the minis- million. That one went for three years. That ter for the answer after that gratuitous play- was the third levy. Then there was the Ansett ing of the man and not the ball. It is always levy. That one went for about three or four the way the Labor Party act—if they do not years. How much did that raise? It raised have an argument, they start attacking the $369 million. man. Senator Sherry did not answer my Senator Ian Macdonald—Was it on in- question. I asked him for the policy rationale dividuals? behind the rebuilding of Queensland being charged to individuals rather than multina- Senator SHERRY—I will get to the issue tional companies who are ripping profits out of whether it was on individuals in a mo- of Queensland and Australia and sending ment, Senator Macdonald. There was the gun them overseas. That was the question, Sena- buyback. The gun buyback was projected to tor Sherry. You did not answer that. I suspect raise $550 million and the East Timor levy you did not answer it because you do not was to raise $855 million. Let me read have an answer for it. You chose to attack me through these figures of the party that does and say that the coalition had levies. As I not agree with levies or surcharges—$1.48 recall, the milk levy was on a bottle of milk. billion for super; milk, $1.74 billion; sugar, Is that right? $86 million; Ansett levy, $369 million; and gun buyback, $550 million. This is from a Senator Sherry—Yes, it was. Shame! party that says it does not agree with levies. Senator IAN MACDONALD—The An- But it is opposed to increases in taxes. That sett levy was on airfares, paid principally by is where we drew our inspiration from, Sena- those corporate multinational giants who fly tor Macdonald—none other than your gov- all around the place. The shipping container ernment. When you were in government, you levy was, I understand, on shipping contain- introduced six levies, not including the super ers—not on individuals. surcharge. I will repeat my question, and do not And then there was the piece de resis- bother giving me another tirade of ‘the How- tance—we even had a levy on shipping con- ard government had levies’. I seem to recall tainers. That was the seventh. For the former you opposed every single one of them, Sena- Liberal-National Party government, the piece tor Sherry, very volubly and aggressively. de resistance was putting a levy even on You have had a bit of a conversion on the shipping containers. So if they were not way to the market, have you not? Do you not whacking your super, your milk, your sugar, see a difference between putting a levy on your airline flights, your guns or funding the containers paid for, perhaps, by those multi- East Timor dispute, there was a levy on ship- national companies and putting a levy on the ping containers. That is seven levies over 12 incomes of individuals, or between putting a years. That is where we got our inspiration levy on the incomes of individuals but not on from, Senator Macdonald—none other than the incomes of multinational giants ripping yourself. You were a member of that gov- off profits and taking them out of Australia ernment for almost 12 long years. So do not and sending those profits overseas? I hasten come in here and give us your hypocrisy to add, for Hansard and for the thousands of about levies, Senator Macdonald. Stop wast- people who I know will be reading this and ing the Senate chamber’s time. following it online, that I am not attacking

CHAMBER 1354 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 the multinationals for making profits and based on income, as I outlined and defined in paying shareholders. But that is the line you my concluding remarks in the second read- get from the Labor Party Left and from the ing debate. It is fair and equitable, Senator Greens. Macdonald. That is why we based it that So I will repeat my question, Minister, and way, and that was the same approach in re- hope that you might give me an answer. I am spect to the gun buyback and the East Timor not after the policy rationale for levies; I am levy, which I referred to in my previous re- after the policy rationale for why in this in- marks. As for the taxation of multinationals, stance you would charge individuals—that is which was an issue that you claim was refer- small business men and wage earners—with enced in Senator Brown’s remarks—I do not the cost of rebuilding Queensland because know whether it is true or not because I did the Queensland state Labor government was not hear Senator Brown’s remarks and he is too incompetent to manage its finances to do not here—that is for him to explain. No it itself, the same as every other state does. member of the government that I am aware Why is the levy on individuals and not on the of suggested in their remarks anything other large multinational companies? I will repeat than the approach that is reflected in this leg- it for you, Minister, in case you have forgot- islation and has been outlined. It is not the ten, as you seem to have missed the question intention, and it does not happen in this leg- last time. If you took it out of general reve- islation, to take the Greens’ approach with a nue then the really wealthy in the community base for the levy. would pay more because of our progressive Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- taxation system, and the big multinational sland) (8.33 pm)—Minister, you still have companies and the big mining companies, not answered my question. Again, you are which Senator Brown said are the cause of saying that because we did it for the guns the floods and the cyclones, would be pay- buyback then it is okay to do it here. Let me ing. But under this legislation supported by take you through this. This levy is to rebuild you and the Greens, those big multinationals, Queensland and other states because of the who caused, according to Senator Brown, the floods. If you accept that the levy is a rea- cyclone and the floods, are getting away sonable thing to do, rather than expecting the scot-free. Can you please explain the policy state to do it as every other state is required rationale? Do not give me a tirade of: ‘The to do, the Australian public as a whole Howard government did it. We opposed it should contribute to rebuilding Queensland. but because you did it and got it through we Why, Minister, is it that individuals have to are going to do it here.’ Tell me what the pol- pay for this recovery yet major multination- icy rationale is for individuals—the butcher, als do not have to? Coalmining companies, the baker, my motor mechanic—having to and BHP do not have to contribute pay this levy while Coles, Woolworths and one cent towards the rebuilding of Queen- the multinational mining companies do not sland. Why is that? That is what I am genu- have to make a contribution to the rebuilding inely wanting to understand. of Queensland. Senator Sherry interjecting— Senator SHERRY (Tasmania—Minister Senator IAN MACDONALD—I know for Small Business, Minister Assisting on Bob Brown really is the Prime Minister but I Deregulation and Public Sector Superannua- would have thought, Minister, that you were tion and Minister Assisting the Minister for still maintaining the pretence that you ran the Tourism) (8.32 pm)—The levy is progressive

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1355 government and I thought this was your leg- the counter, not answer the difficult ques- islation. Your legislation imposes this obliga- tion— tion on individuals—the butcher, the baker, Senator McLucas interjecting— my motor mechanic. What was the policy Senator IAN MACDONALD—Perhaps rationale that said: ‘Okay, Coles, Wool- you could contribute then, Senator McLucas. worths, Rio Tinto and BHP do not have to Ask individuals in Cairns when you are up contribute to the recovery of Queensland’? there why they should contribute but—I was That is the real issue. This is why I have going to say, ‘the big companies in Cairns do been opposed to the levy and this is why not have to’, but you have got rid of all of many on my side are opposed to it. That is those with your Labor government legisla- what I am asking you. Please do not say: tion. There are not too many big businesses ‘Well, the Howard government put in a levy left in Cairns, I regret to say. You do have a so we’re having a levy and it’s only on indi- Woolworths, you do have a Coles and I think viduals because that’s what the Howard gov- some of the big mining companies have of- ernment did.’ That was perhaps so with ship- fices in Cairns. Why aren’t they contributing, ping containers and Ansett as well, but I am Senator McLucas? If Senator Sherry cannot not asking about that. I am asking: why in answer this perhaps you can get up and assist the rebuilding of Queensland are individuals him. having to fork out but Coles and Woolworths are not? My baker and my butcher have to The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN— pay but Coles and Woolworths, who compete Senator Macdonald, would you address your with them, do not have to pay. Rio and BHP questions through the chair, please. get away scot-free but the excavating con- Senator IAN MACDONALD—Thank tractor down the end of my street has to pay. you, Madam Chair. I was answering an inter- Can you explain for me why individuals jection. should rebuild Queensland and not the big The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN— income earners in our country? Please do not answer interjections at this Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) point. (8.37 pm)—I am not sure if Senator Mac- Senator IAN MACDONALD—Okay, I donald wanted me to respond to some of the will seek your protection, Madam Chair. remarks he made earlier about the nature of Thank you very much. Senator Sherry seems the Natural Disaster Relief and Recovery incapable or in the typical Labor way just Arrangements. I am happy to elaborate on it. does not want to answer the difficult ques- Do you want me to elaborate on it? I am very tions. Senator Xenophon referred earlier to a happy to. letter he said he had from Ms Gillard. He The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN clearly knew what it was about and Ms Gil- (Senator Hurley)—I would prefer that sena- lard and her minions here on the government tors addressed their questions through the benches and the Greens will know what that chair. was about. I was wondering if Senator Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- Xenophon could explain to the Senate the sland) (8.37 pm)—Madam Chair, seeing the import of that assurance from the Prime Min- minister does not have an answer to my ister. What was in that assurance that as- questions and just wants to do what the La- suaged Senator Xenophon’s very genuine bor Party typically will do, push this under concerns about the lack of insurance taken out by the state government in Queensland?

CHAMBER 1356 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) The first independent assessment must be (8.39 pm)—There is no great secret to this. published and provided to the Attorney- On 3 March, when agreement was reached General’s Department by 30 September between the government and me in relation 2011, with further assessments required no to the whole issue of Natural Disaster Relief greater than every three years. If there is any and Recovery Arrangements, I put out a me- significant change in the insurance arrange- dia release. I attached to the media release a ments of a state, including any reduction of copy of the letter from the Prime Minister the policy limit purchased, then there will and also the new guidelines to the Natural need to be a review of that state’s independ- Disaster Relief and Recovery Arrangements ent assessment in conjunction with the state. which are attached to the determination The review will be guided by principles in- 2011, version 1. I can indicate there has been cluding: that the state has a responsibility to complete openness and transparency in that put in place insurance arrangements which process. are cost-effective for both the state and the Essentially the determination itself has Commonwealth for the financial exposure been amended. I understand the Attorney- borne by taxpayers at both levels of govern- General will also table it tomorrow in the ment; that the onus is on the state to explore other place. It requires a number of things. a range of insurance options in the market- Firstly, a state must have reasonably ade- place and assess available options on a cost- quate capital or access to capital. That can be benefit basis; and that, in the event as a result done through a number of measures includ- of that review the Attorney-General makes a ing but not limited to the following mecha- determination, which must be published and nisms: commercial insurance or reinsurance transparent, and the state fails to follow that or any state COAG reinsurance fund or pool recommendation, the amount that a state and state department contributions—that is, would be reimbursed under this determina- internal state funds. We know, given the tion will be reduced in accordance with these questions of Senator Macdonald, the issue principles. In other words, the rate of assis- here is one of the Commonwealth having to tance will need to be reduced if the states fail bear 75 per cent of the brunt of any natural to take prudential steps in relation to that. disasters under the arrangements that were in In terms of the mechanism and how it will place from 2007 until now, arrangements that work there is a 15 paragraph document were largely in place for a number of years which relates to the guidelines which sets under both this government and the previous that out. It would involve a whole range of Howard government. The state must submit steps and safeguards including using the At- an independent assessment of state insurance torney-General and the Department of Fi- arrangements and that includes having state nance and Deregulation and ‘utilising such Auditor-Generals being involved, for exam- external actuarial expertise required in order ple, so the states need to tell the Common- to ensure a full and rigorous assessment.’ In wealth what they are doing in relation to in- other words, it is anticipated that there will surance. The states must publish the outcome be some external expert advice. Each review of any independent assessment, which in turn will include an examination of matters such is assessed independently by the Common- as the following: the nature of any insurance wealth, and the Department of Finance and or reinsurance sought and offered, the Deregulation has a role in that. I will refer to amounts of any premiums and excesses, the that process as well. events and extent of assets covered, the

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1357 amount covered per event, the maximum of me towards the end of the process, maybe possible loss, the reinstatement terms, and earlier in the process. They diligently and in the claims experienced in any related mat- good faith conducted this process with the ters. It is very comprehensive. The document aim of having a good outcome. That was my does have in it any insurance sought and of- primary concern. If there is going to be a fered because if a state or territory wants to flood levy, I want it to be the last flood levy be disingenuous and to say, ‘We got this we have. premium offer which is totally unrealistic,’ it No longer can states hide behind the pre- depends what they sought. vious arrangements which were that the For instance, if Senator Macdonald wants Commonwealth will always pick up the bill to insure his home and insure every nook and to the tune of 75 per cent. There has been a cranny and wants full replacement value for huge moral hazard here and that moral haz- every item in that home, replacing items ard has been quite apparent as a result of such as antiques—I do not know what he has these terrible natural disasters in Queensland. in his home; I have not been there—he can I find the attitude of the Queensland gov- load the dice so that he will get an extraordi- ernment to be quite extraordinary. But this is narily high premium if he is seeking an unre- a fair, robust and transparent process. It re- alistic term of insurance. There needs to be a quires a review to be published within 90 question of reasonableness, because I think days of receipt by the Department of Finance some of the statements made by the Queen- and Deregulation. The Attorney will consider sland government have been quite extraordi- the report and make recommendations to the nary where it is saying, ‘It’s going to cost us states in light of that report. If the Common- billions to insure the state’s assets.’ That is wealth AttorneyGeneral does not accept any patently absurd, from the discussions I have part of the recommendations in that report, had with those in the insurance industry. I am the Attorney will table a statement in the par- very sad that the Queensland Treasurer has liament explaining the grounds for rejecting resorted to personal abuse in relation to my the recommendation. The Commonwealth position. AttorneyGeneral will advise the state in writ- Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting— ing of his or her final decision, including any decision not to reduce the rate of assistance Senator XENOPHON—I think it is un- provided, to be published within 14 days. fortunate that that is the approach. Senator There are some tremendous transparency Macdonald needs to know that the Com- mechanisms here, and I think this is a very monwealth government will ask the Com- good piece of public policy. monwealth AuditorGeneral to periodically conduct audits at intervals no greater than This is not a criticism of the coalition but, three years to assess the adequacy of the back in 2007, a decision was made by the Australian government’s responsibilities un- Commonwealth not to self-insure their as- der the NDRRA, including determining sets. I wonder whether these new criteria, whether the processes are appropriately while not directly applying to the Common- transparent and whether there is best practice wealth, will set a new benchmark in how we in determining when material is commercial- determine these issues—although, to be fair in-confidence. I really am grateful for the to the Commonwealth, the assets that the hard work of the advisers in the Prime Min- Commonwealth has in terms of roads and ister’s office. I am sure they got pretty sick infrastructure are much, much less than what states and territories have. So I hope this has

CHAMBER 1358 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 answered Senator Macdonald’s concerns in mer Group Managing Director of the Terri- relation to the document, but that was my tory Insurance Office. He ran the Territory key concern. I am looking at the big policy Insurance Office from 2003-08 and did so picture. The reason why we are having this very successfully. Both sides of politics were debate and why we are having this levy in quite praiseworthy of his expertise in turning the first place is, I think, because the Queen- that organisation around. He has some great sland government decided, quite foolishly, experience in this sort of insurance. I did get not to take out insurance on its assets. I advice from a number of people. I am also would like to think this will stand Australian grateful to those individuals who risked their taxpayers in good stead for a number of jobs, who risked their careers, by providing years. The transparency mechanisms are me with information that I thought was quite quite extraordinary. Again, I think this is the telling in terms of the Queensland govern- result of negotiations with the Prime Minis- ment’s conduct. ter’s office which were hard, but which were This determination is a unilateral determi- conducted in good faith. nation by the federal government because the Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- federal government pays the bills. So it is not sland) (8.48 pm)—I do thank Senator Xeno- a question of it having to be signed off by phon for perhaps the most useful answer that COAG. That is the nature of the document. It has been given in any debate in a committee is unilateral in its nature because it is the stage in this chamber for a couple of years. Commonwealth that provides the funding He actually answered the question and knew under this relief recovery arrangement. Ob- what he was talking about. His answer did viously there has been consultation with the raise one issue, which I will ask the minister, states but this is a document that does not but assuming the minister will not answer require any of the states or territories to tick perhaps Senator Xenophon might take up the off on it. The document is very explicit in its question for me. Perhaps you did explain timetabling and in its structure that the states this, Senator Xenophon, and perhaps I need to undertake an independent and appro- missed it. How can we be sure that this ar- priate assessment of their insurance ar- rangement, which you have just explained rangements. It anticipates that it could be a very clearly, will be put in place? We on this state AuditorGeneral—it does not have to side have a bit of hesitation in accepting be—but they need to publish the outcome of promises made by the current Prime Minis- such assessments. They need to do so by 30 ter, and I think most Australians will, too, September 2011. They need to do so every after the ‘no carbon tax in any government I three years but the first one will be given to lead’ issue—but I do not want to go into that. the Commonwealth. What are the mechanisms that make Senator The states need to say how they look after Xenophon confident that this arrangement— their assets, whether it is a case of commer- which he has almost single-handedly, I might cial insurance reinsurance, any reinsurance say, arranged with the current government— fund or pool—and that is something that I will be put into effect? would like COAG to look at, because that Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) would create enormous economies of scale— (8.49 pm)—I am grateful to Senator Mac- or internal state funds. The Commonwealth donald for his question. Again, I acknowl- Attorney-General will then request the de- edged previously that I did receive assistance partment of finance to utilise their appropri- from Mr John Tsouroutis, who was the for- ate expertise to provide a full and rigorous

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1359 review of the independent assessments sub- Senator XENOPHON—A determination mitted by the states. That will establish made by the Attorney-General or the appro- benchmarks for the appropriateness of each priate minister. state’s insurance arrangements. You cannot Senator Ian Macdonald—How do you have it across the board, because Queensland know that he is going to do it in this in- will have different insurance needs than stance? South Australia, Victoria or another state. Senator XENOPHON—Firstly, the That is only part of the answer. document has been tabled, so this is the new Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- determination. This determination replaces sland) (8.52 pm)—My concern is how you or supplants the previous determination of can know that this arrangement is going to 2007. It has been tabled. be put in place. That was really my question. Senator Ian Macdonald—They can do I appreciate the answer that you have given another one next week. so far, Senator Xenophon, but is this going to be legislated? Is it going to be a regulation? Senator XENOPHON—The government Has it already been done? Perhaps I missed could also change the legislation next week, it. If so, has it been done in a way such that a next sitting session or after 1 July. government can say, ‘Yeah, we’re going to Senator Ian Macdonald—It would have do this’ one week and then say the next to come into the chamber. week, ‘Look, things have changed and we’ve Senator XENOPHON—Yes, but— had to form a coalition government with the The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Sen- Greens and so we’ve had a change of heart— ator Hurley)—Senator Macdonald, if you sorry about that, Senator Xenophon’? That have a question, you need to ask it properly. was really my question. What assurance have you got that this arrangement that you are Senator Ian Macdonald—I am sorry; I talking about will actually happen? Is it go- was trying to expedite things. ing to be legislated? Senator XENOPHON—I know that in- Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) terjections are disorderly, but they were help- (8.53 pm)—I do not know if I should be get- ful interjections from Senator Macdonald. ting a penalty rate for assisting the govern- Senator Nash—Always. ment like this. Senator XENOPHON—I do not know Senator Sherry—We’ll give you a pen- about ‘always’. The position is this: I consid- alty; you started this! ered that, but I did not think that it was nec- Senator XENOPHON—Yes, I started essary to incorporate it as a piece of legisla- this. The position is this: the previous natural tion given that this government and previous disaster relief and recovery arrangements— governments have worked on the NDRRA the arrangements for a number of years un- by determination for a number of years—for der both this government and the previous many years. It goes back to post Cyclone government—have been undertaken through Tracey in terms of how these determinations a determination. That is how it has been operated. There will be a series of hurdles, done. safeguards and transparency arrangements. If those were to change, they would be the sub- Senator Ian Macdonald—A determina- ject of appropriate scrutiny through this par- tion made by who? liament. I am satisfied with the arrangements

CHAMBER 1360 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 because I think that the Commonwealth the 1993 election? Senator Sherry raised this knows that these arrangements protect point—he was there then—I think that he Commonwealth taxpayers in a reasonable was probably part of the government that and prudential way. It is a quantum leap for- legislated for these l-a-w law tax cuts. They ward in terms of transparency and account- had the election, won the election on that, ability arrangements and requiring states and and immediately got rid of it with the help of territories to do the right thing when it comes the Democrats, as I recall—the other left to insurance arrangements. So I am satisfied. wing party that used to be here. There is nothing to stop the government Senator Xenophon, if this were in legisla- from trying to change it in three months or tion, if they wanted to change it, they would six months. The parliament will change in have to go through not only this chamber— six months time. For the government to ca- and I accept that, after 1 July, with the priciously change them would carry with it Greens very much the ultraleft wing of the some considerable risks for the government. Labor Party, they would support it and it They know that. But the government has would probably get through this chamber— done the right thing in terms of making a but the other chamber, in which it might not significant improvement in the arrangements find such an easy passage. If it were legis- to deal with natural disasters and relief and lated, you could be more assured. Perhaps recovery arrangements. Even if this were set you do not want to answer this; perhaps you in legislation, you cannot bind a parliament; would only repeat what you have already one parliament cannot bind another. I have said. But you are accepting the word of a simply taken the approach that these deter- government that has proved that you cannot minations have been dealt with previously in accept their word that they will do this, that this way. I was happy for that to continue. I they will issue these determinations, that the accept in good faith that we have some pretty Attorney-General will do this. I am sure that good changes here. I expect that those when they made the arrangements with you changes will be with us for some consider- they probably believed that they would. But able time—at least until there is a review by perhaps the Greens will come along and say, the Auditor-General in three years time. If ‘We do not want you to do that for X, Y and the Auditor-General makes recommendations Z reasons,’ and the Prime Minister will get to improve or alter the arrangements then up and ring her hands and say: ‘Oh, things that can be the subject of further scrutiny and have changed since I promised Senator debate at that time. Xenophon that we would do this. The Greens Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- have formed a coalition in Queensland with sland) (8.57 pm)—I am sure that Senator the Queensland state Labor government and Xenophon and I and most other Australians they do not want to go through this any accepted in good faith the promise, ‘There more.’ It is up to you what you accept of the will be no carbon tax under a government I government’s word, but it seems to me to be lead.’ We all accepted that in good faith. We pretty flimsy. You may want to comment on thought that she actually meant it. Here we that. are a couple of months later and she did not I want to ask Senator Xenophon one final mean it. You have answered my question, question. If this arrangement had been in Senator Xenophon; I am not going to argue place, say, a year ago, could Senator Xeno- with you further on that. Remember the old phon indicate in rough figures—not using Keating thing, the l-a-w law tax cuts back in exact figures because I appreciate he would

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1361 not have them here—from his, I know, very Senator Macdonald is also aware that we diligent research into this whole issue, what have a Senate Economics Committee inquiry the case would have been then—what it looking at the whole issue of the insurance might have cost the Queensland government arrangements in the state of Queensland. I to insure and what they might have got back would be very interested to see what offers from the Commonwealth under the NDRA for insurance were made, because I think that arrangements? That is one question. Then they will vindicate the concerns that Senator compare that with what is going to happen Macdonald and I and others have had about now when this arrangement was not in place. the arrangements or lack of arrangements of Has Senator Xenophon actually done those the government of Queensland, which goes calculations to indicate what the difference to the latter questions that Senator Mac- would have been had this arrangement been donald asked. in place? My understanding is that the government Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) of Queensland was offered insurance back in (9.01 pm)—Going to the first issue, I will 2000, and in more recent times, with a pre- not respond directly to some of the remarks mium in the order of $50 million. It would made by Senator Macdonald. I am satisfied have been multibillion dollar coverage that that the agreement that has been reached is would have included roads. The extent of the one of good faith. I am satisfied that the At- loss to taxpayers, had some appropriate ar- torney-General of the Commonwealth will rangements been in place, would depend on implement the terms of this agreement, as the sort of excess that applied. The advice I the minister responsible for that. I am satis- have had from within the insurance industry fied that it is something that will have bipar- is that, with these sorts of claims, you may tisan support because it actually protects tax- have a fairly large excess per event. It might payers’ funds in a way that is quite reason- be $50 million, $100 million or a larger able and robust and because there are trans- amount than that. The fact is that, instead of parency mechanisms in it. there being a total bill of something like $5.8 I am also satisfied that the government billion in total, the bill would be in the hun- knows and I know that, if the government dreds of millions rather than in the billions of tears this up in the next six months—which I dollars for those sorts of insurable events. I do not anticipate occurring in any circum- have no doubt that, if prudential arrange- stance—that would be a gross breach of ments had been put in place, the cost to faith. I do not expect that to happen. Queensland taxpayers and, in particular, to Commonwealth taxpayers would be billions Senator Ian Macdonald—What about of dollars less. States and territories will not ‘no carbon tax under a government I lead’? be able to hide behind what they are doing Senator XENOPHON—But I do not ex- now and use glib excuses for why they have pect it to happen. I urge Senator Macdonald not taken out insurance, because they will to look at this document in detail. It is actu- now be subject to mechanisms that are very ally very robust. Every word in those guide- transparent and robust. lines in the new determination has been care- Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- fully weighted to ensure that Commonwealth sland) (9.05 pm)—I thank Senator Xenophon taxpayers’ funds are protected, but in a way for that and I wish him well in his reliance that is reasonable also to the states, as long on the word of a government that, as we all as the states take reasonably diligent steps. know, promised us just before the last elec-

CHAMBER 1362 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 tion that there would be ‘no carbon tax under before happened with a disaster in the history a government I lead’, and of course that will of the Commonwealth, yet people I know are be the next major debate here. going to have to pay this tax because of a bit With not a great deal of hope of getting of political mateship between the state Labor any answer from this government, because it government in Queensland and the federal is a government that is unaccountable and government. I cannot believe that people in does not believe that it has to answer to par- Australia understand what this flood levy is liament for its legislation, I ask if the minis- all about. It is not going to be the case, as the ter could identify something for me that I Labor Party have been trying to pretend to think he made mention of in his first answer: people in Queensland, that this legislation is where is the minister going to specify—and I all about fixing their houses, replacing their assume he has not done it yet because this furniture and helping rebuild the businesses legislation is not yet passed—a class of indi- of individuals. That is what people in Queen- viduals for the purposes of the proposed sub- sland have been led by the Labor Party to section 2 of section 4-10 in the amendment believe this flood levy is all about. It is any- bill? Where is he going to specify that he is thing but that. It is all about giving some satisfied that that class was affected by a taxpayers’ money to the Queensland state natural disaster that happened in Australia Labor government, a government that is so between the nominated dates? financially inept that it is broke and could not attend to recovery after a normal natural The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Sen- disaster. ator Hurley)—Senator Macdonald, you have the call again. We have had natural disasters in Queen- sland, I am sure, since time immemorial, Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- certainly since recorded European times. We sland) (9.06 pm)—It looks like the debate have never had a special tax levy for work will come to an end because this Labor gov- which governments must understand they ernment minister simply chooses not to an- will have to do every year. Good heavens, if swer legitimate questions. How typical is this you listen to the Greens and the Left of the of the Labor Party! This government is only Labor Party you will know that cyclones are in power because of this new paradigm of increasing in their occurrence, that floods are ‘openness and accountability’. Here we have going to get greater, that droughts are going questions that do not go to the intellect of the to get greater, that erosion and tidal inunda- minister at the table, the Minister for Small tion are going to get greater. Why would you Business, but are questions from senators not think the Queensland government would that I think deserve an answer and we have a have understood this and put aside a bit of minister that sits there and refuses to answer. money for a rainy day, the same as Queen- I am particularly grateful to Senator Xeno- sland governments have done for the last 150 phon, who has at least put some legitimacy years since Queensland became a state? They and truth into the debate by answering ques- have always paid for this out of the general tions and explaining the legislation that we revenue of the Queensland government. are going to vote on. Suddenly, for the first time in European re- I am distressed that this legislation is go- corded history, we are having a special tax ing to become law very shortly. I cannot be- on all Australians because the Queensland lieve that only certain people are going to government cannot rebuild Queensland. I have to pay this additional tax. It has never just cannot believe that this parliament has

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1363 been conned, if I might say, into voting for another one of the Labor Party’s taxation this particular piece of legislation. It is a dis- arrangements to help a broke state Labor grace. It is a scandal. government in Queensland and to help a fed- I want to emphasise this, at the risk of re- eral government that is increasingly showing peating myself, by saying again to the people its incompetence in financial management. of my state of Queensland: you, as individu- But it is not too late. I say to the Independ- als, householders and business owners, are ents: why is it that only individuals pay this? not going to get one cent of this flood levy Surely that must be a question in the minds despite what you have been led to believe by of the Independents. What is the policy ra- the Prime Minister and the Labor govern- tionale? I gave the minister two opportunities ment. They have led you to believe that the to convince us that there was some genuine coalition, by intending to vote against this, is policy rationale in only taxing a certain being nasty to individuals by not fixing their group of individuals, but he chose to attack houses and their businesses. Nothing could the messenger. be further from the truth. Not one cent of this I am genuinely at a loss. Please, anyone in flood levy will go to individuals. It will go to the Labor Party—it does not need to be the the Queensland government to build roads minister—or even anyone on my side: can and bridges and to build cyclone shelters that you tell me why individuals are paying this the Queensland government should have and not the coal mining companies, not Rio been building. Tinto, not BHP? Why do my butcher and I do not criticise the Independents. I do baker, as I keep on saying, have to pay for not even bring the Greens into the equa- the road works and bridge works in Queen- tion—with such policy hypocrisy you do not sland when these major multinational com- even try to debate with them. But I must say panies are getting away scot-free? Do not I am distressed that the Independents are ever let me hear the Labor Party or the going along and slugging individuals—not Greens pretend that they are interested in all taxpayers, just a group of individuals— individual Australians and lower income with this tax, with the money not going to Australians when they are letting the most householders and business people but going profitable people in our country off abso- to the Queensland government. I am very lutely scot-free. concerned about this. If it is a good tax and it needs to be done, There are issues in this legislation—one is if Queensland must have this money, why the specifying of a class of individuals—put then is there only a certain few individual forward by a government led by a leader taxpayers who have to pay this and not major who simply cannot tell the truth. This is the multinational, profit-making companies that, leader that promised hand on heart that there on the minister’s figures as I understand the would be no carbon tax under a government one answer he gave me, contribute 55 per she led—and we are giving that sort of min- cent of Australia’s general taxation revenue? istry the ability to specify a class of indi- Why is not their 55 per cent going into re- viduals that will be exempted from this tax. I building Queensland? Why is it only the 45 have asked the minister at the table to ex- per cent contributed by individual Austra- plain this, to put the parameters around it, to lians that is being taxed on this particular say how this is going to be dealt with—no issue? If someone could give me a rationale answer, no accountability. This is simply for that I would sit down and walk out of here happily. Senator Xenophon is still here;

CHAMBER 1364 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 perhaps you could tell me why you would that it gets through this Senate and Austra- tax individuals and let the big companies off lians will be lumped yet again with another scot-free. It just does not make sense. If tax. I do despair. I hope against hope that someone could please explain to me why that when the final vote comes in the third read- is good policy I would leave the chamber ing perhaps a majority of this chamber will disappointed that the bill went through but at say, ‘No, this is just not good enough.’ If you least satisfied that there had been some pol- need a flood levy, if you do need to get icy rationale for it. Queensland rebuilt, then let us get all tax- I do not want to delay the Senate all that payers to do it—the big taxpayers, the 55 per much further. I just hope that the people of cent who contribute to taxes in Australia. Let Australia who are all paying this levy will us get them to contribute, not just leave it to one day work out that they have been abso- a couple of individuals. lutely dudded yet again by the Gillard- Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) Brown government. Individuals are paying (9.20 pm)—It pains me to hear that Senator for public works in Queensland whilst others Macdonald is so unhappy that he has not had get off scot-free. There are certain groups of an explanation. individuals not yet identified who will not Senator Ian Macdonald—I am unhappy. have to pay the flood levy and, gee, that must I really am. fill the chamber with horror. We are leaving Senator XENOPHON—He is unhappy. I it to this government, with a great track re- cannot speak for the government but it is my cord for honesty and accountability and understanding that the previous levies under truthfulness, to determine which group of a coalition government were undertaken in people are going to be slugged and which the same way—that is, on individual taxpay- group of people are not going to be slugged. ers. I just cannot believe that I am seeing this happen in the . But I Senator Ian Macdonald—No. and my colleagues on this side have done Senator XENOPHON—They weren’t? perhaps all we possibly can do to alert the Senator Ian Macdonald—The container people of Australia to them being dudded yet levy was on containers. The milk levy was again by this government. This will not be a on bottled milk. temporary levy; it will continue because we Senator XENOPHON—Sure. I will not will have a flood next year, we will have a be distracted. Senator Macdonald is just try- cyclone next year, we will have a fire next ing to be helpful. My understanding is, very year, we will have a drought next year. Hav- quickly, that it is administratively simpler to ing got this through this chamber, there is the do it this way in the context of rather than precedent—’Look, back in 2011 you agreed dealing with corporations you have a greater to this levy. Here comes another flood, so degree of certainty as to the amount of levy let’s have another levy.’ that you will collect, and there are thresholds Sure, Senator Xenophon’s hard work of income between $50,000 and $100,000. might lessen the damage a bit but mark my Below $50,000 no levy is payable and the words, this will not be a temporary levy. This levy rate changes at $100,000 and above, so will go on and on. They will find some ex- there are some equity considerations in rela- cuse to continue it on next year. The Senate tion to that. But that was not the main reason by then will be powerless to stop it. The why I got up to respond. Green-Brown-Gillard coalition will ensure

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1365

It is also important that I put on the record insurance arrangements, so that reassures me the concerns that were raised in the Senate that this is a robust arrangement that will be Economics Legislation Committee inquiry in in place for a number of years, at least until relation to these bills. A number of my con- the Auditor-General undertakes a periodic stituents raised issues on two aspects: one review in three years time. So, if any prece- was the Stockport floods that occurred at the dent has been set, I think it is a precedent end of last year when a community in the that it is going to be very difficult to argue mid-north of South Australia suffered as a that we should ever have another flood levy result of floods. I am satisfied with the re- like this once these arrangements are in sponse from Treasury, that where there has place. That is why I support this legislation. I been a declaration made under the NDRRA think that there is going to be a good long- certain exemptions will apply. term policy outcome when it comes to the On an issue that was raised about redun- states and territories insuring their assets. dancy payments, I note that the circum- Senator CORMANN (Western Australia) stances in which redundancy payments are (9.24 pm)—I have a couple of observations. taxable or not taxable have been set out. My second observation will be in response to Madam Chair, I think you have received some of the remarks made by Senator Xeno- some further information on this. I have re- phon, but firstly I want to talk about the ar- ceived similar information from Treasury rogance of this government and the arro- and from the government. That satisfies me. gance of this minister in not being prepared In relation to Senator Macdonald’s con- to answer legitimate questions put to him by cerns over whether this is something that will a senator representing the state of Queen- stick, I am reassured by a number of things. I sland, the state that this tax hike is supposed know this may pain Senator Macdonald, but to be for. These are legitimate questions be- Senator Milne from the Greens is at one with ing put by Senator Macdonald, a senator rep- Senator Macdonald when it comes to—he’s resenting the state of Queensland, and the wincing!— minister just sits there, refuses to get up and refuses to provide answers to the questions Senator Ian Macdonald—There’s no that are being put to him. need to be insulting! It is always easy to whack another tax on Senator XENOPHON—I hate to tell people right across Australia. Every Austra- Senator Macdonald this, but Senator Milne lian earning more than $50,000 will be asked shares the concerns that he has in relation to to pay this tax—an increase in their income the Queensland government not taking out tax. Whatever cuddly name you want to give insurance. In fact she moved a motion in this it, Minister, this is an increase in the income place, which was passed, expressing those tax rates of all Australians earning more than concerns. $50,000, and it will no doubt get through this Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting— chamber with the support of Senator Xeno- Senator XENOPHON—He accepts that. phon. Minister, I urge you to just reflect on Some of my fellow crossbenchers in the your attitude in this chamber in not answer- House of Representatives have expressed ing legitimate questions that are being put to similar concerns about this. There are a you by a senator representing the state that number of crossbenchers—the Australian this tax is supposed to help fund the recon- Greens, the Independents in the lower struction effort for. house—who share similar concerns about

CHAMBER 1366 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

My ears pricked up when I heard Senator This flood tax, this increase in the income Xenophon try to answer a question that tax—to be passed by this parliament less Senator Macdonald had put to the minister than two months before the budget comes about the reason why this tax is exclusively down—is not good public policy. It is not imposed on individuals and not on others. good public policy to set up a tax, suppos- Senator Xenophon put it in these words: that edly for a one-year period, to raise $1.8 bil- he had been told that it was administra- lion when, quite frankly, there would be an tively— opportunity in less than two months to repri- Senator Xenophon—No, I didn’t say I oritise our spending commitments in the con- was told that. That is my understanding. text of the revised revenue estimates that will be before us at that point of time. Senator CORMANN—So it is your un- derstanding that intrinsically comes to you; it Senator Xenophon interjecting— is not something that in the course of your Senator CORMANN—I know that Sena- negotiations the government has put to you? tor Xenophon well knows this, but Senator I find the proposition that we impose a new Xenophon—and I admire him for it— tax on all Australians earning more than identified a public policy issue in relation to $50,000—just because it is administratively the state Labor government in Queensland convenient to whack every Australian earn- not taking out proper insurance, and he saw ing more than $50,000—to be quite a bad an opportunity to leverage his vote to get a way for us to go. good public policy outcome on one side. Of We are here in a circumstance where the course, the thing that he had to bargain with government wants to raise $1.8 billion out of was his vote. If he did not bargain with his a budget of $350 billion. This is money the vote, then Senator Xenophon would not be government should be able to find by repri- able to force the Labor government in Can- oritising its excessive and wasteful spending berra to force their mates in Queensland to across this budget. This tax is supposed to do the right thing in the future. He has done come into effect on 1 July 2011. That is after that, and I understand where he is coming the next budget. We will have a budget in from, but the outcome is still an increase in May, when this issue—the funding required the income tax for all Australians earning for the reconstruction effort—can be dealt more than $50,000, unless they are in one of with. There is absolutely no need to deal the exempted areas. with this now. The reason we are dealing Senator Macdonald raised the issue of with this now is that the Prime Minister, how the determinations are made in relation Julia Gillard, wanted to strike while the iron to those exemptions. Initially, all people who was hot and get a tax through the parliament were impacted by a natural disaster that was while she thought that she could get away a flood event were to be exempted. I asked with it politically in the court of public opin- questions about this in Senate estimates. ion. She knows that tax hikes like this are Senator Macdonald, I am sure you would be unpopular, so she always is on the lookout quite interested in this. I asked: ‘What about for a political strategy to get away with a tax. the people in Kelmscott who were impacted She is always focused on the spin and the by the bushfires?’ The secretary of Finance politics rather than on what is good public and, later, officials from Treasury told us: policy. ‘No. People who are impacted by bushfires are not going to be exempt. They will have to

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1367 pay the tax, because only those that were Of course, we welcome the fact that the peo- subject to a natural disaster that is a flood ple in Kelmscott will not have to pay this event will be exempt from this.’ tax. We think that no-one across Australia There were quite a lot of people who were should have to pay this tax. We think that all quite concerned about this. In fact, the West of the Australian people should be exempt Australian was about to write a story about from this tax. it. The West Australian went to the Prime I am sure that, as Senator Macdonald said, Minister’s office and asked: ‘What about the the minister would not be so bold as to ex- people who are impacted by bushfires? It is a empt people based on political affiliation, but natural disaster that is not a flood event but a it would be possible under this legislation. bushfire. Why do they have to pay this tax?’ Of course, that would be highly inappropri- On the spot, the Prime Minister made policy ate. What other exemptions do the govern- on the run. She changed her mind and said, ment currently have under consideration that ‘These people are going to be exempt as go beyond what we have been told so far? well.’ Just like that. Of course, the story in Have other categories for exemptions been the paper the next day, on the back of a quick raised, Minister? I would be very interested policy decision by the Prime Minister on in you answering this question. legislation that had not even gone through Can you confirm, given that the fact the parliament, was that they were going to sheets from Treasury have not been updated exempt those people as well. yet, the advice that was put to a journalist at The problem was that when we started the West Australian, through a spokesman of debating this legislation all of the fact sheets the Prime Minister’s office, that the people in from Treasury and all of the official advice Western Australia who have been subject to on the Prime Minister’s website were out of bushfires will be exempt from this flood tax? date because they still said that only those What about people who have been impacted people who had been subject to a flood event by droughts? Droughts are natural disasters. were going to be exempt. There was no men- Will people who have been impacted by tion of the people who had been subject to droughts be exempt from this flood tax? bushfires and the like. So there is a lack of What other natural disasters will fall within clarity, Minister, around how the exemptions the category of exempt? are going to be handled if the Prime Minister It is no longer just a flood event—we have can change it at the stroke of a pen when established that, unless the spokesperson asked a difficult question by a newspaper out from the Prime Minister’s office was not of Western Australia. telling the truth. If we can believe the This government does not normally care spokesman from the Prime Minister’s office about what people in Western Australia who was quoted in the West Australian as think. This government is a very eastern- saying that the people of Kelmscott who state-centric government. I dare say that it is were subject to bushfires would be exempt a government very much centred on New from paying the flood tax, what other people South Wales and Victoria. There is not much who have been subject to other categories of that they focus on outside of New South natural disasters will be exempt from this Wales and Victoria, but they took notice of a tax? You could argue that it is a disaster be- newspaper from Western Australia and—on ing governed by this minority Labor gov- the run—they put an exemption like this in. ernment, so maybe we should all be exempt

CHAMBER 1368 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 because we are all subject to this natural dis- exceeds a certain amount then you have to aster. You could argue that there should be a pay a levy. But it says that that subsection: catch-all category of exemption here. … does not apply if you are a member of a class On a more serious note, it is a very serious of individuals specified in a legislative instrument question. A spokesman from the Prime Min- made by the Minister for the purposes of this ister’s office told the West Australian, con- subsection. trary to what was said by the Secretary of the Then it goes on to qualify that a little bit by Department of Finance and Deregulation and saying: contrary to what was said by Treasury offi- The Minister may only specify a class of indi- cials at estimates and contrary to what is viduals for the purposes of subsection (2) if the written in relevant Treasury fact sheets, that Minister is satisfied that the class was affected by the victims of bushfires in Western Australia a natural disaster— would be exempt from paying the flood tax. between certain dates. Can you confirm that on the record for the Senator Cormann has told us about a news- benefit of the Senate? Or is that just going to paper from his home state of Western Austra- be another broken promise that was made lia that put the pressure on the Prime Minis- under the pressure of the 24-hour news cy- ter and got a commitment that these fire vic- cle? tims in Western Australia would be excluded. Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- I am not sure why we cannot get the same sland) (9.34 pm)—What is this debate all commitment here in the Parliament of Aus- about? What is this parliament all about tralia. Whilst fortuitously the drought in most when we have a legitimate request of the parts of Australia has dissipated, and that is minister to confirm that some bushfire vic- fortunate, I understand there are still some tims in Western Australia will not pay the tax parts of Australia— and the minister just sits there? I think he Senator Adams—Western Australia. was asleep. Perhaps he did not hear the ques- Senator IAN MACDONALD—Particu- tion. Perhaps I could get Senator Cormann to larly in Western Australia, as Senator Adams repeat the question. By confirmation to this mentions, that are still in the grip of drought. parliament, I would certainly like to know if I can perhaps ask Senator Cormann about the Prime Minister has said that a group of this, because it is no use asking the minister individuals in Western Australia will be ex- as he just refuses to answer anything and empt. refuses to be accountable, but the West Aus- In this committee stage of the debate it is tralian newspaper asked the Prime Minister intended that we go through the provisions of if those people subject to the drought natural the act. We have a look at what the words say disaster in Western Australia would also be and we can be satisfied that those words do exempt, or was it just those who had suffered encompass what the media releases have said from the bushfires? Why are bushfire victims will happen. Clause 4.10 of this bill says that excluded but not people who are in drought? you must pay extra income tax for the 2011- Senator Xenophon interjecting— 12 financial year if you are an individual. I emphasis that if you are an individual—if Senator IAN MACDONALD—Do not you are a blood-sucking multinational com- say ‘Ask the minister,’ Senator Xenophon—I pany that Senator Brown talks about then am asking you, I am asking Senator Cor- you do not have to pay—and your income mann, I am asking anyone who can tell me, because the minister refuses to answer. Some

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1369 would say if these people had been in than companies because it was administra- drought for several years they probably tively easier, he thought—that was his un- would not have an income; they probably derstanding. But that is hardly a basis for would not reach the $50,000. That may be taxing Australians. The levy is raising $1.8 the case, but they may have some other in- billion. That is all coming from individuals. vestments that give them an income of If it were taken from general revenue, then $50,100—the same as many people who Woolworths, Coles, BHP, Rio Tinto and were subjected to Cyclone Yasi might have Xstrata would pay 55 per cent of that $1.8 incomes well in excess of $50,000, but they billion and we individual bunnies would pay will be excluded. So, Western Australians, if the rest. Individuals in Australia would pay you are in the fire zone you will be excluded about $0.8 billion and these wealthy, accord- but if you happen to be in the drought zone, ing to Senator Brown, multinationals would tough! This is great legislation; it is great pay the other $0.9 or $1 billion. But, under stuff from this government. this legislation, they get off scot-free; it does I would love to know just what this class not cost them a cent. Certain individuals— of individuals is, and what constraints there though not every individual—will have to are on the minister. One would think, if this pay the levy. What is the policy sense of government were genuine, that it would be that? How could anyone vote for legislation this Senate chamber of the Parliament of that imposes a tax on some individuals? We Australia where you would make clear who do not even know how many individuals are was going to be exempted from this levy; going to be excluded. How many of the peo- what class of individuals it was going to be. ple who contribute 45 per cent of the general If Senator Sherry says that this has already revenue are going to be excluded? If a small been determined and the legislative instru- percentage of them are excluded it means ment has been drafted, why does he not take those remaining pay even more. What is the the Senate into his confidence and table it in sense in that? How could you possibly justify the Senate so we can have a look at it? There legislation along those lines? cannot be anything wrong with that. Perhaps I have a few more things to say but I think we will find that there are some other holes Senator Back might have some questions as in the legislation. I would be fascinated to well, so I will leave it there unless the minis- see it. I note it is a legislative instrument, so I ter chooses to earn his money tonight and suppose it can be knocked off in the Senate; actually answer some of the questions being we can disallow it. If you disallow it because put to him in this committee stage. it does not include everyone, those that it Senator BACK (Western Australia) (9.43 does include are also knocked out so every- pm)—My questions go to who gets ex- body has to pay the levy. The end result of empted. In this place just recently I tried to that of course is that the Senate certainly establish the eligibility under the Australian would not disallow it because you would be Government Disaster Recovery Payment cutting off the noses of a lot of distressed scheme for the $1,000 per adult and $400 per Australians to spite the face of those few child payments. I asked—and I did not get a people in, for example, the drought areas satisfactory answer—whether it was true that who are not going to be impacted upon. a community 1,700 kilometres north of Bris- This is bad legislation. Senator Xenophon bane, just south-west of Cairns, was receiv- tried to answer for the government when he ing the $1,000 cheques in consideration of said that the levy is on individuals rather the floods in Brisbane, 1,700 kilometres to

CHAMBER 1370 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 the south, and then after Cyclone Yasi struck to me so ridiculous that we would frame the North Queensland there was yet another legislation in such a way that a group of in- community half way up Cape York who were dividuals in the community would be so hardly affected, if at all, and yet people lined taxed but companies and others would not. up to get their $1,000 per adult and $400 per How do we know that the $1.8 billion will be child. In fact they did not even have to make recovered in 12 months. What if it takes two an application to Centrelink; their’s was paid years? What if it takes six months to recover into their bank accounts. these funds? What will happen then? If it is What was interesting was that I was told in six months, will the levy stop? Or if at the in that circumstance—and this goes to the end of 12 months the $1.8 billion has not question I would like clarified—that there been recovered, will it continue? These are were people in North Queensland particu- questions which I believe we have the right larly who applied for, received and contrib- to ask and have answered. uted back to various charities their $1,000 Senator Cormann drew attention to the figure and their $400 figure. It was put to me bushfires affecting people in Kelmscott and that, having received the funding under the Armadale after the events of the floods. It Australian Government Disaster Recovery also begs the question: what about the people Payment scheme, they too would then be in Lake Preston whose homes were de- exempted from contributing to this levy. I am stroyed prior to Christmas, who are equally keen to know whether that is true, whether it in a situation of financial and emotional em- happened, to what extent it happened, how barrassment. What about the Gascoyne Centrelink or other agencies have been able where the worst floods in WA’s history in to establish this and what action, if any, is December wiped out most pastoral Gascoyne being taken to recover those funds. It could Junction properties, about 160 kilometres not be a greater contrast at this time with the from Carnarvon. At the time I asked the shocking events in Japan recently—the question of Minister Ludwig representing the earthquake followed by the tsunami—to Attorney-General. Despite the Premier of the have the realisation that the Japanese gov- state calling it a natural disaster and, to her ernment, prudent as it is, has just gone into credit, despite the Prime Minister having said its sovereign wealth funds to fund the recov- yes, this was a natural disaster category C in ery from that dramatic and disastrous event. which the people of the Gascoyne should It draws to our attention the fact that any enjoy funding under the Australian Govern- intelligent, wise or prudent household or any ment Disaster Recovery Payment scheme, prudent business would always put to one Emergency Management Australia had taken side funds to use in the event of some disas- it upon itself to decide that it really was not a ter befalling that household or business. In severe flood and no payments were to be Japan we see the prudence of their govern- made. It was only with the intervention of ment over time and its capacity to place sav- the West Australian newspaper with whom I ings to one side so that, in the event of a dis- consulted after question time that day, who aster, of whatever magnitude, they are not in put the questions to the Prime Minister’s a position of going to their citizens for this office the very next day, being 11 February, purpose. that an edict was put out that, yes, those peo- I do not want to go over the ground of ple in the Gascoyne themselves— companies, trusts and other entities that will Senator Cormann—It is a very powerful be exempted from paying this levy. It seems newspaper.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1371

Senator BACK—A very powerful news- lians had been killed and this had a profound paper and on that occasion they were very impact on Australians at home. busy. I think the talkback on radio 6PR did Anzac Day was first commemorated in not do any harm either. The question I want 1916 and during the 1920s became estab- to come to in regard to the levy is the fact lished as the national day for commemora- that the Gascoyne region itself will not be a tion of the 60,000 Australians who died dur- recipient under any of these funds. ing the First World War. In subsequent years, Progress reported. and after Australia’s involvement in other ADJOURNMENT conflicts, the meaning of the day has been broadened to commemorate all Australians The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT killed in Australian military operations. As I (Senator Troeth)—Order! It being 9.50 pm, have mentioned previously in this place, I I propose the question: had the privilege last year of commemorat- That the Senate do now adjourn. ing Anzac Day at the dawn service at Villers Military Service Bretonneux in France. Visiting the sites of Senator BILYK (Tasmania) (9.50 pm)— those World War I battles, such as Villers As this is the last sitting week before Anzac Bretonneux, Petit-Croix and Bullecourt, Day, I would like tonight to talk about hon- gives one a much greater appreciation of the ouring military service. I would like to make sacrifices that our forebears made and I some remarks about the importance of hon- would recommend it to any Australian who ouring the service of the Anzacs and Austra- has the means and the opportunity. lian Defence Force personnel who have One of the ways in which the Australian served or are currently in theatres of war, in government honours military service is conflicts and in peacekeeping operations. through the Department of Veterans’ Affairs Australia has had its own share of conflict Saluting Their Service grants. This program and bloodshed throughout the history of supports projects and activities which di- European settlement and although, fortu- rectly commemorate those Australian service nately, little of it has taken place on Austra- men and women who served in wars, con- lian soil, it has had an enormous role in shap- flicts and peace operations. The program ing our nation and making Australia the helps to preserve our wartime heritage and to place it is today. promote an appreciation and understanding It may sound cliched but some of the best of the role those who have served have aspects of Aussie culture, like mateship and played in shaping our nation. egalitarianism, are deeply ingrained in the Funding is available to community and Anzac spirit. Anzac Day, 25 April, com- ex-service organisations, local government memorates the day in 1914 when the Austra- authorities and other bodies such as muse- lia and New Zealand Army Corps landed at ums and schools. Up to $3000 or $4000 may the Gallipoli peninsula. The objective was to be available for such things as restoration, open up the Dardanelles to allied forces and preservation and interpretation of Australian to capture Constantinople, the capital of the wartime memorabilia for public display; Ottoman Empire, an ally of Germany in the commemoration of significant anniversaries First World War. The Gallipoli campaign was of battles and other military operations; and abandoned towards the end of 1915 and the new commemorative plaques and honour allied forces withdrew. Over 8,000 Austra- boards for public display.

CHAMBER 1372 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

This funding is very important. Service- Boer War, particularly those service men and men and women have risked and, in many women who made the ultimate sacrifice. cases, sacrificed their lives in the service of The cabinet was constructed at a prevoca- their country and we owe a great debt of tional workshop run by Mental Health Ser- gratitude to them. It is fitting that we honour vices South and so gave an opportunity for their service and sacrifice with plaques, hon- some people with disability to participate in our boards and memorials, as well as through being part of this project. As such, the pro- public ceremonies, recorded histories and the ject had much wider community benefits, basic respect and deference we pay to our enabling, as I said, people to develop work ex-service personnel. skills and increase their confidence and self- In November 2009, I was pleased to have esteem. Descendants of soldiers whose the opportunity to represent the then Minister names appear on the honour roll were gener- for Veterans’ Affairs, the Hon Alan Griffin ous in giving donations of family memora- MP, and unveil a roll of honour for the small bilia to display inside the cabinet. Such con- communities of Middleton, Flowerpot and tributions are incredibly special when you Gordon in the D’Entrecasteaux Channel in consider the sentimental value that these my home state of Tasmania. This roll hon- items have for the families. ours the service and sacrifice of Anzacs from I would like to implore every Australian, the area who fought in the First World War when commemorating Anzac Day or Re- and the Boer War. In November last year, I membrance Day, to consider the sacrifices returned to Middleton and again represented that are still being made to this day by ser- the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, now the vice men and women from the ADF Hon Warren Snowdon MP, for the unveiling throughout the world. While it has been dec- of a display cabinet which now houses the ades since Australia has participated in con- honour roll and a collection of war memora- flicts on the scale of the two world wars or bilia from the local area. Both of these pro- the Korean and Vietnam wars, our brave jects were funded by the Australian govern- ADF personnel are nonetheless still engaged ment’s Saluting Their Service grants. in combat and peacekeeping operations. To give you a bit of history: the new roll They are still spending years away from their of honour replaces two honour rolls that families and placing themselves in harm’s were situated at the Flowerpot school and the way so that they can make the world a better, Middleton community hall, both of which safer place for their fellow Australians. To were destroyed by the devastating bushfire our diggers in Afghanistan, Iraq, East Timor, of 1967 in southern Tasmania. The hard the Solomon Islands, Egypt, the Middle East work of applying for the grant, obtaining and Sudan: I wish you success in your mis- quotes for the cabinet and honour roll and sions and a safe return home. I also take this organising the unveiling ceremonies was opportunity to acknowledge and thank our undertaken by the South Channel Ratepayers personnel who have been deployed to Association. I would like to congratulate and Queensland for natural disaster recovery as- thank the association, in particular their sistance following the devastating floods and president, Gloria Lonergan, and committee Cyclone Yasi. member Russell Griffiths, for the large effort I would like to conclude tonight with a they put into organising such a fitting tribute comment about the Australian War Memo- to service men and women from their area rial. This is a great national monument to our who had served in the First World War and

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1373 fallen service men and women and a symbol showcase our rich military history for gen- of the degree of deference that Australia erations to come. In conclusion, as I said at shows to the role of conflicts in shaping our the beginning, I think it is really important history. So I welcome the Prime Minister’s that we honour the service of the Anzacs and recent announcement that the Australian War Australian Defence Force personnel who Memorial will receive another $8 million per have served or who are currently serving in year in funding on top of the $38 million it theatres of war, conflicts and peacekeeping was previously receiving. This additional operations. funding will support the memorial so it can Iraq continue to educate Australians, honour our Senator PAYNE (New South Wales) outstanding service men and women and (9.58 pm)—I want to raise an issue this eve- showcase our rich military history for gen- ning that has been canvassed before in this erations to come. In conclusion, as I said at chamber and in the other place, and to make the beginning, I think it is really important some brief observations in relation to the that we honour the service of the Anzacs and current situation besetting Christians in Iraq. Australian Defence Force personnel who Let me start with a few statistics to give us a have served or who are currently serving in historical picture of the journey that some of theatres of war, conflicts and peacekeeping these communities have travelled. Estimates operations. They are still spending years vary but in 2003 it was estimated that there away from their families and placing them- were approximately 1.5 million Christians in selves in harm’s way so that they can make Iraq. They comprised roughly five per cent the world a better, safer place for their fellow of the population of 28 million compared to Australians. To our diggers in Afghanistan, 20 per cent just a century ago. The largest Iraq, East Timor, the Solomon Islands, groups are the Assyrians, the Chaldeans and Egypt, the Middle East and Sudan: I wish the Syriacs. Christian groups in Iraq can you success in your missions and a safe re- trace their proud history in the area back for turn home. I also take this opportunity to many hundreds of years, and in some cases acknowledge and thank our personnel who more than 1,000 years. Despite making up have been deployed to Queensland for natu- just five per cent of the pre-war population ral disaster recovery assistance following the of Iraq, 40 per cent of refugees from Iraq are devastating floods and Cyclone Yasi. Christians. I would like to conclude tonight with a It is estimated that since 2003 some half a comment about the Australian War Memo- million Iraqi Christians have fled or migrated rial. This is a great national monument to our to neighbouring countries and to the West. fallen service men and women and a symbol Those estimates vary. The actual number of the degree of deference that Australia might be as high as one million. It is a stag- shows to the role of conflicts in shaping our gering number. It is brought about in a large history. So I welcome the Prime Minister’s part by a sustained campaign of threats, in- recent announcement that the Australian War timidation and violence from quite extreme Memorial will receive another $8 million per elements within Iraq that have flourished year in funding on top of the $38 million it particularly since the changes in 2003. was previously receiving. This additional funding will support the memorial so it can The Iraqi Christian population was rela- continue to educate Australians, honour our tively stable under the dictate of Saddam outstanding service men and women and Hussein, ironically, and reports of actual per-

CHAMBER 1374 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 secution were rare although, of course, we all ther and the three deacons with whom he recall the brutal persecution that Saddam was travelling convert immediately to Islam. Hussein perpetrated upon the people of Iraq When they refused they were shot dead. Fa- with estimates of more than half a million ther Ganni worked under Archbishop Faraj tortured and executed. Some Christians, no- Rahho who little more than six months later tably former Foreign Minister and Deputy was found dead outside Mosul. He had been Prime Minister Tariq Aziz, rose to the higher kidnapped two weeks earlier. echelons of power. The overthrow of Sad- In a sense the attacks on Christians in Iraq dam Hussein’s Baathist regime has provided are a reflection of the wider, more difficult, an opportunity for, in some cases, Islamic security situation in the country. There is extremists to enforce their very radical inter- certainly also some evidence that, in some pretation of Quranic teachings. The bigotry cases, attacks have been orchestrated by and discrimination that Iraqi Christians are criminal gangs, who think they can find a facing while going about their daily lives soft ransom target, rather than by extremists. does not often make the news, but it is no It is a matter of perspective, I suppose, but less pervasive or distressing for those who some Christians are perceived to be wealth- are its victims. ier than other communities, and they do not There have long been reports, for exam- possess the same tribal or militia links as ple, that some Islamic groups are attempting other minority groups. But it does not matter to force Christians in places like Mosul and about the motivations. Regardless of the mo- Baghdad to pay the jizya, which is an archaic tivations the outcome is the same and the form of poll tax perpetrated on non-believers community is understandably distressed. that dates back to the days of the Ottoman Chaldean Christian community leaders Empire. Whether they are riding the bus or have spoken of a concerted attempt to drive shopping at the markets Christians find Christians out of Iraq through a campaign of themselves being met with threats and abuse. threats, kidnapping, discrimination and, in They report lengthy delays and frustrations some cases, bombing attacks. In May 2009 in dealing with bureaucracy today as they did Jean Benjamin Slieman, the Catholic before. The impediments do not, in fact, ap- Archbishop of Baghdad, said he: pear to be shared by the wider Iraqi popula- ... fears the extinction of Christianity in Iraq and tion. the Middle East. So, despite the overthrow of the despotic One of the more recent horrific and tragic Hussein regime and the formation of a de- acts of violence occurred in Baghdad in Oc- mocratic government, Christians in Iraq have tober last year. On the 31st of that month been caught up in what are rising levels of gunmen from an organisation which calls sectarian violence in the country. Threats to itself the Islamic State of Iraq stormed a Christians have escalated in recent years. In church known as Our Lady of Salvation 2007 it was reported by the US State De- Church in Baghdad during Sunday mass. partment that Christians in Baghdad’s Dora They laid a four-hour siege, they killed 50 district were being ordered to either convert innocent parishioners and clergy and they or leave, or they would be killed. In Mosul wounded 78 others. They were not people that same year Father Ragheed Ganni, a who were proselytising. They were not peo- Chaldean Catholic priest, was stopped by ple who were attempting to influence or co- gunmen on the way home from Sunday erce, even if that were a reason for any sort mass. Those gunmen demanded that the fa-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1375 of such horrific behaviour. They were guilty tinue. While we in the West take religious of nothing but having the temerity to practise freedom and freedom to believe or not to their own religion in their own place of wor- believe for granted, Christians in Iraq con- ship and they were slaughtered indiscrimi- tinue to be denied that most basic of rights. nately. It was a truly horrific act. It was ap- The Iraqi government, in its infancy and be- palling. It was an act that was greeted with set with a myriad of other problems, can only horror by the Iraqi Christian diaspora. do so much. We in the Western World have a Britain’s Syriac Orthodox Archbishop responsibility and we cannot be said to have Dawood urged Iraqi Christians to flee the completed the task we set out on unless the country and described the massacre as ‘pre- human rights of Iraqis continue to be upheld meditated ethnic cleansing’. Pope Benedict and defended. said he would, ‘Pray for the victims of this Australia has a responsibility in that re- senseless violence, made even more fero- gard. We have a responsibility to remain cious because it struck defenceless people vigilant and we have a responsibility to stand who were gathered in the house of God.’ The up for the rights of individuals, of humans worst part is that it was not just an isolated and of members of religious minorities in incident but rather part of a pattern of sys- Iraq. For Iraqi Christian families who are in tematic attacks on the Iraqi Christian popula- Australia and elsewhere in the diaspora, for tion. It is a pattern that continued on 31 De- those who are trying to leave to protect cember last year when two elderly Christians themselves from this environment, it is an were killed by a bomb left on their doorstep. incredibly difficult situation. In parts of The tragedy of those attacks is that they Western Sydney where I work there are not only are characterised by brutality and many Iraqi Christians, whose families still violence but are deliberately targeted to in- remain in Iraq, who experience this distress duce fear within an already vulnerable mi- all too regularly. nority community. And they are attacks that In making these brief remarks tonight I nascent Iraqi law enforcement agencies, de- really wanted to remind myself in large part spite their best efforts, appear unable to stop. and the chamber in small part of the impor- One might say, with an effort at some tance of maintaining that vigil. It is not one positive aspect of this, that there is some that we can forget. hope for the future of Christians in Iraq with Meningococcal Disease leaders of the Sunni and Shia Islamic com- Senator FAULKNER (New South munities meeting in January of this year to Wales) (10.07 pm)—Dr Clayton Golledge, discuss measures to improve security for microbiologist and infectious diseases ex- Christian Iraqis. All sides agreed to a resolu- pert, has been quoted as saying when de- tion that condemns the persecution of Chris- scribing the speed and ferocity of meningo- tians and other religious minorities in Iraq. coccal disease cases, ‘I’ve seen cases where The United States has also begun to address someone has been well at breakfast and dead the issue. In January they held a congres- by dinner.’ I would like to take this opportu- sional hearing on Christian minorities in nity to inform the Senate of the devastating Egypt and Iraq. It is a start but more needs to effect of meningococcal disease on many be done to put those words into action. Australians and the work of the Violet Foun- Despite the end of the war and the with- dation, a community organisation working to drawal of Western forces the attacks con- raise awareness and support those Austra-

CHAMBER 1376 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011 lians affected by meningococcal disease, a causing bleeding into the skin which results foundation for which I am proudly the pa- in a distinctive purple rash many recognise tron. as synonymous with the victims of meningo- Meningococcal disease is an acute bacte- coccal. The combination of cold hands or rial infection that strikes with frightening feet, mottled skin and muscle or joint pains speed and can cause death within hours if not should prompt seeking medical attention. Do recognised and treated in time. Fortunately, it not wait for the telltale rash. is a rare disease affecting around 300 Austra- Most cases occur spontaneously. Out- lians a year. The most at risk are children breaks where more than one person is af- under five years of age and young adults fected are rare. Meningococcal bacteria are aged 15 to 24 years. While the majority of difficult to spread, only passed from person victims will fully recover, Australian menin- to person by regular close, prolonged house- gococcal disease data indicates that 10 per hold and intimate contact with secretions cent of those infected will die and around 20 from the back of the nose and throat. It is per cent will have permanent disabilities, important for teenagers and young people to ranging from sight and hearing problems, look after their mates and act quickly. Do not liver and kidney failure to the loss of fingers, assume they have a hangover or flu-like ill- toes and limbs. ness. The sooner antibiotic and other treat- Meningococcal disease is caused by a ments begin the less damage the disease will number of different strains of the bacterium cause and most will make a complete recov- Neisseria meningitidis. The bacterium is ery. However, it must be remembered this commonly found in the upper respiratory disease can progress very rapidly despite the tract and is spread through infected droplets best treatment. in the air. Recognising the disease in its early Vaccines are currently available for four stages is important but diagnosis can be very out of the five strains of meningococcal dis- difficult as it can easily be mistaken for other ease, including the C strain, the second most common ailments such as tiredness, mild flu common in Australia. This has had a big im- or the common cold. Meningococcal disease pact on reducing infection rates nationally. appears in two forms: meningitis or bacteria Information and education on vaccination form, and septicaemia or blood poisoning, or will lead to more Australians being protected a combination of both. Meningococcal men- against this strain of the disease. Vaccination ingitis causes inflammation of the brain and for the meningococcal B strain, the most spinal cord. Symptoms may include head- common in Australia, is in advanced devel- ache, fever, fatigue, stiffness and soreness of opment and a vaccine becoming available in the neck, sensitivity to light, confusion and the near future does look like a promising convulsions. Meningococcal meningitis can reality. result in permanent disabilities such as deaf- I acknowledge there are many organisa- ness and brain injury and in some cases tions and charities in Australia tackling this death. terrible disease. I have had the great privi- Meningococcal septicaemia is the more lege of being the patron for one of those or- dangerous and deadly of the two diseases. ganisations, the Violet Foundation. The Vio- Meningococcal septicaemia bacteria enter let Foundation was established in Sydney in the bloodstream and multiply uncontrollably, April 2002 after a group of concerned citi- damaging the walls of the blood vessels and zens started fund raising for a friend suffer-

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1377 ing from meningococcal disease. It has since tion’s tireless work in easing the suffering of grown and now assists many sufferers and so many who have had their lives affected by their families. I am not a medical expert, nor meningococcal disease. have I been personally touched by the devas- Senate adjourned at 10.17 pm tating effects of this illness, but I do know DOCUMENTS the work of the Violet Foundation has been magnificent. Tabling Tonight I want to acknowledge the tre- The following documents were tabled by mendous efforts of the foundation’s office the Clerk: bearers, including its founder and President, [Legislative instruments are identified by a Mr Col Greenway; foundation Secretary, Federal Register of Legislative Instruments Leanne Cotter, whose daughter Danielle has (FRLI) number. An explanatory statement is suffered longterm effects from meningococ- tabled with an instrument unless otherwise indicated by an asterisk.] cal disease since the age of 14 months; Treasurer, Mr Greg Peters, who had the dis- Aged Care Act— ease in 1999 but is fully recovered from its Aged Care (Residential Care Subsidy – effects; and Events Coordinator, Ruth Green- Amount of Accommodation Supple- way; and those other members of the founda- ment) Determination 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00443]. tion’s committee, all of whom volunteer their time and expertise in this worthy cause. Aged Care (Residential Care Subsidy – Amount of Concessional Resident Sup- I would also like to commend the founda- plement) Determination 2011 (No. 1) tion’s well-known supporters, particularly [F2011L00414]. those from the sporting world: Wests Tigers Aged Care (Residential Care Subsidy – prop, Keith Galloway; Australian women’s Amount of Pensioner Supplement) De- goal keeper, Alicia McCormack; termination 2011 (No. 1) boxer, Anthony Mundine; and great sports- [F2011L00409]. man Sonny Bill Williams, who has worn the Aged Care (Residential Care Subsidy – foundation’s supporter wristband around the Amount of Respite Supplement) Deter- world. Their contribution is exceptional. mination 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00410]. The Violet Foundation’s educational pro- Aged Care (Residential Care Subsidy – jects work toward community awareness of Amount of Transitional Accommoda- the symptoms of meningococcal disease, tion Supplement) Determination 2011 early diagnosis by medical professionals and (No. 1) [F2011L00407]. rapid treatment—so crucial for a disease that Aged Care (Residential Care Subsidy – can move so frighteningly quickly. The Vio- Amount of Transitional Supplement) Determination 2011 (No. 1) let Foundation’s vital financial and emotional [F2011L00412]. support for those unfortunate enough to have had personal experience with meningococcal User Rights Amendment Principles 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00411]. disease—to have been touched by the dis- ease either as sufferers or as the family and Agricultural and Veterinary Chemicals Code Act— friends of someone who has contracted the disease—is simply outstanding. Agricultural and Veterinary Chemicals Code Repeal Order 2011 As proud patron of the Violet Foundation, [F2011L00442]. I do want to commend tonight the founda-

CHAMBER 1378 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Select Legislative Instrument 2011 No. Charter of the United Nations Act— 16—Agricultural and Veterinary Charter of the United Nations (UN Chemicals Code Amendment Regula- Sanction Enforcement Law) Amend- tions 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00441]. ment Declaration 2011 (No. 1) Anti-Money Laundering and Counter- [F2011L00440]. Terrorism Financing Act—Anti-Money Select Legislative Instrument 2011 No. Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financ- 26—Charter of the United Nations ing Rules Amendment Instrument 2011 (Sanctions – Libyan Arab Jamahiriya) (No. 1) [F2011L00378]. Regulations 2011 [F2011L00439]. Australian Participants in British Nuclear Civil Aviation Act— Tests (Treatment) Act—Instrument Civil Aviation Regulations— No. R13/2011—Treatment Principles Instruments Nos CASA— (Australian Participants in British Nuclear Tests) 2006 (Allied Mental Health Care 61/11—Instructions – RNP APCH Providers) Instrument 2011 LNAV and RNP APCH [F2011L00428]. LNAV/VNAV on Qantas B737-800 aircraft [F2011L00405]. Australian Prudential Regulation Authority Act—Australian Prudential Regulation Au- 72/11—Instructions – for approved thority (Confidentiality) Determination No. use of P-RNAV procedures 6 of 2011—Information provided by life [F2011L00390]. insurers and friendly societies under Re- 73/11—Instructions – RNP APCH porting Standard LRS 100.0, LRS 120.0, LNAV and RNP APCH LRS 210.0, LRS 300.0, LRS 310.0, LRS LNAV/VNAV on Qantas A330 air- 330.0, LRS 340.0, LRS 400.0, LRS 420.0 craft [F2011L00406]. and LRS 430.0 [F2011L00357]. 90/11—Direction – number of cabin Australian Research Council Act— attendants [F2011L00415]. Discovery Early Career Researcher EX20/11—Exemption – from stan- Award Funding Rules for funding dard take-off and landing minima – commencing in 2012 [F2011L00403]. Qantas [F2011L00381]. Future Fellowships Funding Rules for Civil Aviation Safety Regulations— funding commencing in 2011 Revocation of Airworthiness Direc- [F2011L00404]. tives—Instrument No. CASA ADCX Banking Act—Banking (Foreign Ex- 005/11 [F2011L00396]. change) Regulations— Commonwealth Authorities and Compa- Direction relating to foreign currency nies Act—Notice under section 45— transactions and to Libya, dated 4 CO2CRC Limited. March 2011 [F2011L00393]. Corporations Act—Accounting Stan- Variations of exemptions, dated 4 dards— March 2011— AASB 9—Financial Instruments [F2011L00392]. [F2011L00347]. [F2011L00394]. AASB 2010-10—Further Amendments to Australian Accounting Standards – Census and Statistics Act—Statement No. Removal of Fixed Dates for First-time 1 of 2011—Lists of Agricultural Farm Adopters [F2011L00354]. Businesses for the Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics and Customs Act— Sciences.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1379

Select Legislative Instruments— 1048084 [F2011L00386]. 2010 No. 275—Customs (Prohibited 1048093 [F2011L00361]. Imports) Amendment Regulations 1048156 [F2011L00353]. 2010 (No. 2) [F2010L03011]— Explanatory statement [in substitu- 1048297 [F2011L00352]. tion for explanatory statement tabled 1048299 [F2011L00382]. with instrument on 22 November 1048396 [F2011L00387]. 2010]. 1048554 [F2011L00388]. 2011 Nos— 1048782 [F2011L00398]. 17—Customs Amendment Regu- 1048785 [F2011L00397]. lations 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00438]. 1048995 [F2011L00395]. 18—Customs (Prohibited Ex- 1049064 [F2011L00389]. ports) Amendment Regulations Defence Act— 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00437]. Determinations under section 58B— 19—Customs (Prohibited Im- Defence Determinations— ports) Amendment Regulations 2011/12—Post indexes – amend- 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00435]. ment. Tariff Concession Orders— 2011/13—Member with dependants 1043416 [F2011L00359]. (unaccompanied) and housing for 1045126 [F2011L00401]. members overseas. 1046180 [F2011L00383]. 2011/14—Senior officer salaries consequential amendments. 1046471 [F2011L00399]. Select Legislative Instrument 2011 No. 1046698 [F2011L00348]. 22—Defence Force Amendment Regu- 1046704 [F2011L00377]. lations 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00421]. 1046727 [F2011L00371]. Environment Protection and Biodiversity 1046729 [F2011L00374]. Conservation Act—Amendment of list of 1046763 [F2011L00370]. threatened species, dated 2 February 2011 [F2011L00355]. 1046814 [F2011L00351]. Fair Work Act—Select Legislative Instru- 1046967 [F2011L00368]. ment 2011 No. 23—Fair Work Amendment 1047333 [F2011L00350]. Regulations 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00418]. 1047398 [F2011L00369]. Family Law Act—Select Legislative In- 1047579 [F2011L00400]. struments 2011 Nos— 1047613 [F2011L00372]. 15—Family Law Amendment Rules 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00328]— 1047642 [F2011L00373]. Explanatory statement [in substitution 1047741 [F2011L00375]. for explanatory statement tabled with 1047742 [F2011L00379]. instrument on 2 March 2011]. 1047746 [F2011L00376]. 20—Family Law Amendment Regula- 1047888 [F2011L00360]. tions 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00408]. 1047994 [F2011L00384]. Federal Financial Relations Act— 1048036 [F2011L00367]. Federal Financial Relations (General purpose financial assistance) Determi- 1048038 [F2011L00385].

CHAMBER 1380 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

nation No. 23 (February 2011) Legislative Instruments Act—Select Legis- [F2011L00362]. lative Instrument 2011 No. 21—Legislative Federal Financial Relations (National Instruments Amendment Regulations 2011 Partnership payments) Determination (No. 1) [F2011L00416]. No. 31 (March 2011) [F2011L00391]. Migration Act— Fisheries Management Act— Direction under section 499—Direction Eastern Tuna and Billfish Fishery Man- No. 49—Order for considering and dis- agement Plan 2005 – Revocation posing of visa applications under sec- [F2011L00118]—Explanatory statement tion 91 of the Migration Act. [in substitution for explanatory state- Migration Agents Regulations—Office ment tabled with instrument on 8 Feb- of the MARA Notices— ruary 2011]. MN10-11b of 2011—Migration Eastern Tuna and Billfish Fishery Man- Agents (Continuing Professional De- agement Plan 2010 [F2011L00120]— velopment – Distance Learning) Explanatory statement [in substitution [F2011L00364]. for explanatory statement tabled with MN10-11c of 2011—Migration instrument on 8 February 2011]. Agents (Continuing Professional De- NPF Direction No. 149 [F2011L00445]. velopment – Seminar) Fringe Benefits Tax Assessment Act— [F2011L00358]. Select Legislative Instrument 2011 No. MN10-11d of 2011—Migration 34—Fringe Benefits Tax Amendment Agents (Continuing Professional De- Regulations 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00423]. velopment – Conference) Health Insurance Act—Select Legislative [F2011L00363]. Instruments 2011 Nos— Select Legislative Instrument 2011 No. 27—Health Insurance Amendment 33—Migration Amendment Regulations Regulations 2011 (No. 1) 2011 (No. 2) [F2011L00429]. [F2011L00426]. Military Rehabilitation and Compensation 28—Health Insurance (Diagnostic Im- Act— aging Services Table) Amendment MRCA Treatment Principles (Allied Regulations 2011 (No. 1) Mental Health Care Providers) Instru- [F2011L00424]. ment 2011 [F2011L00436]. Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 and Taxa- MRCA Treatment Principles (Commu- tion Administration Act—Select Legisla- nity Care at Home approved under the tive Instrument 2011 No. 36—Taxation Aged Care Act 1997 for Former Prison- Legislation Amendment Regulations 2011 ers of War and Victoria Cross for Aus- (No. 1) [F2011L00422]. tralia Recipients) Determination 2011 Income Tax Assessment Act 1997—Select [F2011L00432]. Legislative Instrument 2011 No. 35— MRCA Treatment Principles (Transition Income Tax Assessment Amendment Care Co-Payment for Former Prisoners Regulations 2011 (No. 2) [F2011L00420]. of War and Victoria Cross for Australia Indigenous Education (Targeted Assis- Recipients) Determination 2011 tance) Act—Select Legislative Instrument [F2011L00433]. 2011 No. 24—Indigenous Education (Tar- National Health Act—Select Legislative geted Assistance) Amendment Regulations Instrument 2011 No. 29—National Health 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00419]. (Pharmaceutical Benefits) Amendment Regulations 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00427].

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1381

Native Title Act—Native Title (Notices) Telecommunications (Customer Service Determination 2011 (No. 1) Guarantee) Direction (No. 1) 2011 [F2011L00349]. [F2011L00402]. Occupational Health and Safety Act— Telecommunications (Customer Service Select Legislative Instrument 2011 No. Guarantee) Standard 2011 25—Occupational Health and Safety [F2011L00413]. (Safety Standards) Amendment Regula- Telecommunications Universal Service tions 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00425]. Obligation (Standard Telephone Service Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas – Requirements and Circumstances) De- Storage (Safety Levies) Act—Select Legis- termination (No. 1) 2011 lative Instrument 2010 No. 330—Offshore [F2011L00417]. Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Therapeutic Goods Act—Select Legislative (Safety Levies) Amendment Regulations Instruments 2011 Nos— 2010 (No. 2) [F2010L03197]— Explanatory statement [in substitution for 30—Therapeutic Goods Amendment Regulations 2011 (No. 1) explanatory statement tabled with instru- ment on 8 February 2011]. [F2011L00434]. Private Health Insurance Act—Private 32—Therapeutic Goods (Medical De- vices) Amendment Regulations 2011 Health Insurance (Insurer Obligations) Amendment Rules 2010 (No. 1) (No. 1) [F2011L00430]. [F2010L02886]—Explanatory statement Therapeutic Goods (Charges) Act—Select [in substitution for explanatory statement Legislative Instrument 2011 No. 31— tabled with instrument on 8 February Therapeutic Goods (Charges) Amendment 2011]. Regulations 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00431]. Radiocommunications Act— Veterans’ Entitlements Act— Radiocommunications (Prohibition of Revocation of Warlike Service, dated 21 PMTS Jamming Devices) Declaration February 2011 [F2011L00380]. 2011 [F2011L00346]. Veterans’ Entitlements (Treatment Prin- Radiocommunications (Receiver Licence ciples – Transition Care Co-Payment for Ta x) Act—Radiocommunications (Re- Former Prisoners of War and Victoria ceiver Licence Tax) Amendment Determi- Cross Recipients) Instrument 2011 nation 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00365]. [F2011L00444]. Radiocommunications (Transmitter Li- Witness Protection Act—Witness Protec- cence Tax) Act—Radiocommunications tion (Complementary witness protection (Transmitter Licence Tax) Amendment De- laws) Declaration 2011 [F2011L00356]. termination 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00366]. Indexed Lists of Departmental and Sydney Airport Curfew Act—Dispensation Agency Files Report 02/11. The following documents were tabled Telecommunications Act— pursuant to the order of the Senate of 30 May Telecommunications Numbering Plan Variation 2011 (No. 1) [F2011L00163] [ta- 1996, as amended: bled on 9 February 2011]—Regulation Indexed lists of departmental and agency Impact Statement. files for the period 1 July 2010 to Telecommunications (Consumer Protection 31 December 2010—Statements of com- and Service Standards) Act— pliance— Climate Change and Energy Efficiency portfolio.

CHAMBER 1382 SENATE Monday, 21 March 2011

Department of Defence. Finance and Deregulation portfolio. Human Services portfolio. Innovation, Industry, Science and Re- search portfolio. Resources, Energy and Tourism portfo- lio. Departmental and Agency Contracts The following document was tabled pur- suant to the order of the Senate of 20 June 2001, as amended: Departmental and agency contracts for 2010—Letter of advice—Sustainability, Environment, Water, Population and Communities portfolio.

CHAMBER Monday, 21 March 2011 SENATE 1383

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE The following answers to questions were circulated:

Defence: Hospitality (Question Nos 117 to 119) Senator Johnston asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 29 September 2010: (1) (a) What was the hospitality spend for each agency within the responsibility of the Minis- ter/Parliamentary Secretary; and (b) for each hospitality event, can the following details be pro- vided: (i) the date, (ii) the location, (iii) the purpose, and (iv) the cost. (2) Can details be provided of the total hospitality spend for the office of the Minister/Parliamentary Secretary. Senator Chris Evans—The Minister for Defence has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) (a) The Department of Defence’s total expenditure on Hospitality (excluding the Minister’s Office) with separate analysis of representational allowances, for the period 1 July 2010 to 31 Decem- ber 2010 is shown in Table 1 (available from the Senate Table Office). - Official Hospitality is the provision of hospitality to persons other than Defence personnel who are able to assist Defence in achieving its corporate objectives through advice, vocational or busi- ness interests or attendance at official ceremonies or functions. - Representational funds assist Australian Defence Organisation (ADO) members posted on long- term duty overseas to meet the costs of officially entertaining host-country nationals. The sole pur- pose of providing such hospitality is to enable ADO members to conduct Australian and Defence business more efficiently and effectively. (b) Details of each event are provided at Table 2 (available from the Senate Table Office). (2) Details of hospitality spend for the offices of the Minister/Parliamentary Secretary are provided at Table 3 (available from the Senate Table Office). Strategic Indigenous Housing and Infrastructure Program (Question No. 217) Senator Scullion asked the Minister representing the Minister for Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs, upon notice, on 23 November 2010: Given that the profit margin for the alliance partners of the Strategic Indigenous Housing and Infrastruc- ture Program [SIHIP] is set as ‘up to 20 per cent’: (1) How is this profit calculated. (2) How is this profit paid to, or retained by, the alliance partners. Senator Arbib—The Minister for Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

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(1) and (2) The alliance contracting methodology used for the Strategic Indigenous Housing and Infra- structure Program (SIHIP) involves risk sharing between the Northern Territory Government and the alliance partners. It is understood that under these arrangements profits are not guaranteed to al- liance partners. The method for calculating payments to alliance partners, and making such pay- ments, is the subject of contracts to which the Australian Government is not a party. Christmas Island Resort Pty Ltd (Question No. 372) Senator Ludlam asked the Minister for Regional Australia, Regional Development and Local Government, upon notice, on 24 January 2011: With reference to the sale of the former Christmas Island Resort Pty Ltd (the casino) by the Receiver and Liquidators to Soft Star Pty Ltd on 5 May 2000: (1) What properties are currently owned by Asia Pacific Space Centre (APSC), Soft Star Pty Ltd or Mr David Kwon as a result of that sale. (2) What leases or freehold titles apply to the properties identified in paragraph (1). (3) Did initial discussions with APSC (APSC/Soft Star, Submission No. 13, p. 1420) support the exci- sion of Linkwater Road and the water supply facilities from the Crown leases; if so, on what date did this occur; if not, why not. (4) Were negotiations conducted with APSC during February 2000 regarding assignment of the leases. (5) During these negotiations did the Commonwealth continue to seek to excise the water supply fa- cilities from the lease and to suggest that new leases be drawn up. (6) Were new leases drawn up as a result of these negotiations; if not, why not; if so, were the water supply facilities and the Linkwater road removed from the leases. (7) Did the Liquidator write to the Commonwealth on 25 February 2000 and request that the Crown leases be assigned in their current form and that, if necessary, the Commonwealth deal with modi- fications to the lease after settlement of the sale. (8) Were the leases assigned in their existing form at the time of sale to Soft Star Pty Ltd on 5 May 2000: (a) if so, why; if not, what part of the leases were modified; and (b) has the Commonwealth dealt with modifications to these leases since the settlement of the sale; if so, when and to what ex- tent; if not, why not. Senator Sherry—The Minister for Regional Australia, Regional Development and Local Government has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: I am advised that: (1) Mr David Kwon is the Managing Director of Soft Star Pty Ltd and the Asia Pacific Space Centre (APSC). The APSC does not own any properties or leases on Christmas Island. Soft Star Pty Ltd has leasehold ownership of the Christmas Island Resort. (2) Soft Star Pty Ltd currently has leasehold ownership of the Christmas Island Resort. No freehold titles are attached to the Resort. (3) Yes. The Minister wrote to the Liquidator on 30 August 1999 and stated that negotiations over ‘boundary changes and easements to transfer services infrastructure responsibility to the Com- monwealth would continue with any purchaser of the resort’. Quote from the Joint Standing Com- mittee on the National Capital and External Territories inquiry into the tender pocess for the sale of the Christmas Island Casino and Resort, ‘Risky Business’, September 2001. (4) Yes. (5) Yes.

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(6) A new lease was not drawn up as a result of these negotiations on the advice of the Christmas Is- land Resort Pty Ltd Liquidator. The realigned Linkwater Road excision from the leased land and water supply to the Resort was executed by Deed of Agreement on 12 July 2006. (7) Yes. (8) Yes. (a) Leases were assigned in their existing form on the advice of the Liquidator. (b) The Deed of Agreement of 12 July 2006 modified the conditions concerning water supply and Linkwater Road. Christmas Island (Question No. 373) Senator Ludlam asked the Minister for Regional Australia, Regional Development and Local Government, upon notice, on 24 January 2011: With reference to the development of the new port facility between Waterfall and Norris Point on the east coast at Nui Nui on Christmas Island, which was developed due to the fact that the current ‘port cannot be classified as a “safe port” in all weather conditions’ and can therefore ‘be closed when weather conditions are moderately bad to severe’, according to the Attorney-General’s Department submission to the Joint Standing Committee on the National Capital and External Territories’ inquiry into the changing economic environment in the Indian Ocean Territories (report tabled in the Senate on 11 May 2010): (1) How much did the complete facility cost. (2) When was the facility first considered for development. (3) (a) When did the development commence; and (b) when was it concluded. (4) Since the development concluded, how many times per year has it been used to land containers, goods and vehicles when the current port adjacent to Flying Fish Cove could not receive goods or containers due to weather conditions. (5) For those same years itemised in paragraph (4), how many times were containers, goods and vehi- cles unable or only partially able to be unloaded at Flying Fish Cove. (6) If there is a discrepancy between the answers to paragraphs (4) and (5), why has the new facility at Nui Nui not been used to facilitate the landing of these items. (7) Is there a problem with the provision of quarantine services at the Nui Nui facility; if so, what is being done to resolve this issue. Senator Sherry—The Minister for Regional Australia, Regional Development and Local Government has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: I am advised that: (1) The complete facility cost $6.51m. (2) The facility was first considered for development as part of the Christmas Island Common Use Infrastructure upgrade in 2002. (3) (a) The appropriation of monies for Common Use Infrastructure projects occurred during the 2003- 04 financial year. (b) Works were completed at Nui Nui in late 2004, and the facility commissioned for operation in December 2004. (4) Since completion the facility has been used three times in total - once in January-February 2006 and twice more in March 2006. Of the three instances listed where Nui Nui was activated, in one instance Flying Fish Cove was unavailable, and the two others were partial unloads due to condi- tions deteriorating at Flying Fish Cove at the time of the vessels’ visits.

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(5) Due to weather conditions and the swell season, there are extended periods when it is not possible to use Flying Fish Cove. It is not possible to enumerate more accurately. (6) Like Flying Fish Cove, the port at Nui Nui is not an all weather port. It is also influenced by ad- verse weather conditions and the swell season. It can be used when the harbour master judges that it is safe to do so. Also, the ship’s captain and owners, pilot and stevedores can make decisions re- garding the safety of unloading at either Flying Fish Cove or Nui Nui. (7) Containers unloaded at Nui Nui that are marked for quarantine inspection are transported to the main port at Flying Fish Cove for clearance. Christmas Island (Question No. 374) Senator Ludlam asked the Minister for Regional Australia, Regional Development and Local Government, upon notice, on 7 February 2011: With reference to the upgrade of the Christmas Island Linkwater Road between the new Nui Nui port facility and Lily Beach Road: (1) When was the decision made to reconstruct and improve this road. (2) When was a budget allocation first made to reconstruct and improve this road. (3) When was the road first closed. (4) When did reconstruction and improvement of this road first commence. (5) Have there been any relevant and/or external reasons why the reconstruction and improvement of this road has not concluded; if so, what are they. (6) When is the reconstruction and improvement of the road expected to be complete. (7) Are there any matters that are currently impeding the completion of the reconstruction and im- provement of this road; if so, what are they. Senator Sherry—The Minister for Regional Australia, Regional Development and Local Government has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: I am advised that: (1) The first decision was made on 11 March 2002 as part of an infrastructure upgrade package devel- oped to support the Asia Pacific Space Centre. The road work did not proceed as the Asia Pacific Space Centre project did not proceed. The second decision was made on 19 July 2007 as part of the infrastructure upgrade to support the Immigration Detention Centre. (2) A budget allocation was first made on 11 March 2002. (3) The road was first closed on 28 October 2004. (4) Site works first commenced on 25 May 2010. (5) Several issues have delayed the project, including: negotiations for excision of the land from the Christmas Island Resort; design due to the reduced scope of works; community consultation; geo- technical issues; suspension of work while the contractor, the Shire of Christmas Island, provided safety procedures and safety management plans; unseasonably high rainfall and workforce short- ages. (6) The road works are expected to be completed by the end of May 2011. (7) Unseasonably high rainfall continues to delay work.

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Christmas Island (Question No. 375) Senator Ludlam asked the Minister for Regional Australia, Regional Development and Local Government, upon notice, on 24 January 2011: With reference to the failed construction of the Russian Asia Pacific Space Centre (APSC) near South Point on Christmas Island that was to be primarily located in former mined areas: (1) How many areas were cleared for this facility. (2) What is the tenure of the land cleared. (3) Are there leases or ownership associated with this land beyond that of the Commonwealth; if so, what are they. (4) At the time of agreement being reached for this land to be used for the APSC were there any reha- bilitation conditions established for this land should the project be removed or fail to proceed: (a) if not, why not; and (b) if so: (i) with whom were those agreements established, (ii) has rehabilitation been completed, and (iii) if rehabilitation has not been completed, why not and what action is being undertaken to ensure those areas are being rehabilitated. (5) Were any areas cleared other than those located in former mined areas; if so, are there any different conditions of rehabilitation determined for these areas. Senator Sherry—The Minister for Regional Australia, Regional Development and Local Government has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: I am advised that: (1) The four areas proposed had been cleared and mined in previous decades. (2) The land is vacant crown land. (3) No. (4) No. (a) The land had been cleared and mined prior to negotiations with the Asia Pacific Space Cen- tre. As the Asia Pacific Space Centre did not proceed, no rehabilitation conditions were established. (5) No other areas were cleared. The proposed Asia Pacific Space Centre was to be constructed on previously mined land. Australian Communications and Media Authority (Question No. 385) Senator Ludlam asked the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, upon notice, on 4 February 2011: (1) What does the ACMA estimate to be the overall revenue raised by its auctioning of the 700MHz digital dividend band? (2) Will any sections of the band be allocated for use by emergency services? (3) Will any sections of the band be allocated for use by any other non-commercial services? (4) Will any other sections of the band be reserved for allocation at any later date? (5) Have any provisions been made to enable the Government to return commercially held sections of the band to public hands. (6) Has the ACMA sought advice on the specific communication needs and plans of the various emer- gency services? (7) What does the ACMA estimate to be the commercial value of the 20MHz requested by the Police Federation of Australia for use by the emergency services?

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(8) When will the ACMA or the Minister announce non-commercial allocations of the 700MHz digital dividend band? (9) Is the ACMA considering allocating 20MHz of the band to emergency services as requested by the Police Federation of Australia? Senator Conroy—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The ACMA has not conducted work necessary to provide a potential range of revenue estimates for the auction of digital dividend spectrum. There are a number of factors that will affect the overall revenue raised including the amount of spectrum available for auction, any conditions on use of the spectrum, reserve prices, the number and types of bidders, any competition limits and financial market conditions. Some of these factors will be determined by future government decisions and some others after public consultations con- ducted by the ACMA. As these factors will not be settled until closer to the auction date, the ACMA is not currently in a position to make an estimate of revenue. (2) No decision has been taken on this issue (3) No decision has been taken on this issue. (4) No decision has been taken on this issue. (5) The Radiocommunications Act 1992 contains provisions for the ACMA to resume spectrum li- cences by agreement or by a compulsory process. (6) Yes. The ACMA conducted public consultation via its October 2010 discussion paper Spectrum reallocation in the 700 MHz digital dividend band. Emergency services and other public safety or- ganisations made submissions as part of this process. In addition, as part of a process being led by the Attorney-General’s Department to examine op- tions for the best way to provide public safety agencies with the wireless broadband capability they seek, the ACMA participated in workshops hosted by the Attorney-General’s Department, which were attended by representatives of the public safety agencies, including the: • Law Enforcement and Security Radio Spectrum Committee (LESRSC); • National Coordinating Committee for Government Radiocommunciations (NCCGR); and • National Security Radio Operations Coordination Group (NSROCG) (7) The commercial value of 20 MHz of digital dividend spectrum will be dependent on the value of the spectrum at the time of auction. The value of spectrum at a given time is subject to a number of factors including: the economic climate at the time of sale, demand and supply factors, how the spectrum is packaged up and allocated, and the commercial decisions of potential buyers concern- ing how much spectrum they need. As noted in the response to Question 1, the ACMA has not yet conducted the work necessary to to provide a potential range of revenue estimates for the auction of digital dividend spectrum. (8) As noted in the response to Question 3, no decision has been taken on whether any section of the band will be allocated for use by any non-commercial services. (9) As noted in the response to Question 2, no decision has been taken on whether any sections of the band will be allocated for use by emergency services Child Support (Question No. 2800) Senator Cash asked the Minister representing the Minister for Families, Housing, Com- munity Services and Indigenous Affairs, upon notice, on 3 May 2010:

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(1) What percentage of monies due for collection under child support assessments is currently overdue by more than 30 days. (2) What is the total amount of money outstanding by more than 30 days for child support payments. (3) On an annual basis, for each of the past 7 years, has the incidence of non-payment of child support increased or decreased in percentage terms. (4) What action is being taken to decrease the incidence of non-payment of child support. Senator Chris Evans—The Minister for Families, Housing, Community Services and In- digenous Affairs has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) Of the outstanding child support, 95 per cent was overdue by more than 30 days at the end of April 2010. As at the end of April 2010, 73.5 per cent of all outstanding debt was on active cases. (2) Of the $1.151 billion owed in child support at the end of April 2010, $1.093 billion was out- standing by more than 30 days. (3) The percentage of active cases without arrears has improved in all report years except the 2008 financial year. Year as at 30 June 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total Active Cases 657,332 685,969 712,680 732,634 742,163 751,789 752,586 767,418 778,791 Active Cases with 242,728 245,723 236,742 232,460 228,304 225,197 231,650 216,836 212,464 Arrears Active Cases with 36.93% 35.82% 33.22% 31.73% 30.76% 29.95% 30.78% 28.26% 27.28% Arrears / Active Cases Increase or Decrease - -1.10% -2.60% -1.49% -0.97% -0.81% 0.83% -2.53% -0.98% in % with Debt Ended with Arrears 25,762 29,644 32,882 36,036 38,661 44,367 51,346 60,162 61,435 Cases Source: Total Child Support Case debt data. Prior to 09/10 Total Active cases sourced from CS5 (facts and figures) and Ewar sourced from the CRU Extract. 09/10 sourced from Current Caseload (CSA on a Page). (4) In the 2009-10 Budget, the Government provided an additional $223.2 million over four years to maintain customer service standards and address the build-up of child support debt. The additional $223.2 million build on reforms undertaken in previous budgets and ensures that the Child Support Program (CSP) has dedicated resources to continue its comprehensive compliance program. CSP has established a Compliance risk and Intelligence function to increase the focus on compli- ance risk management and the gathering and dissemination of intelligence to enhance CSP’s com- pliance regime. CSP has developed a new case selection model that is currently being piloted. The model initially segments customers according to their debt profile and then applies a risk framework to ensure se- lected cases are prioritised. A range of activities have been undertaken by the CSP to decrease the incidence of non-payment of child support. These include increasing customer payment options by offering credit and debit card facilities via phone and the internet and establishing early intervention teams to contact parents who have recently defaulted on their first payment or defaulted on a payment arrangement. As a general compliance activity, the CSP refers parents who have not lodged tax returns to the Australian Taxation Office for lodgement enforcement and intercepts income tax refunds when child support is owed. Where appropriate, the CSP initiates litigation action, conducts income minimisation investigations, issues departure prohibition orders and undertakes optical surveil- lance.

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For parents who fail to voluntarily meet their obligations, the CSP can arrange for child support deductions to be made from salary and wages. If a parent is in receipt of an Income Support Pay- ment from either Centrelink or the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, the CSP can request automatic deduction of child support from these payments. Deductions can also be made from Family Tax Benefit. The CSP can issue notices to third parties holding money on behalf of a parent who owes child support. This can result in money being recovered from bank accounts and compensation payments.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE