Speaker 2: Judith Korey, oral history, interview, Friday September eighth 2017.
Rusty Hassan: Well, thank you for giving us this opportunity to talk to you about your career. I guess some formal details that are part of oral history would be a good place to start. What is your full name and date of birth?
Speaker 2: Okay. Judith Ann Korey. Date of birth is October eighth 1947.
Rusty Hassan: Uh-huh. And where were you born and where did you grow up?
Judith Korey: Philadelphia. Born in Philadelphia Pennsylvania and grew up in Philadelphia Pennsylvania.
Rusty Hassan: Uh-huh. And what were your parent's names and where are they from?
Judith Korey: Okay. My father was Joseph John Korey. He was a doctor from Lebanon. He was born here but his sister and brother were born in Lebanon. Actually, at the time they were born, it was Syria. My mother is Lena Ann Onorato. She's of Italian descent. She was a first generation Italian. Her father, Rocco, came from southern Italy.
Rusty Hassan: Whereabouts in Italy did he come from?
Judith Korey: Near Matera in a small city called Salandra.
Rusty Hassan: And tell us about your family and what it was like growing up in Philadelphia.
Judith Korey: Okay. I come from a very large family. I have seven sisters and two brothers. I'm the second oldest. Growing up in Philadelphia was ... well, let's talk about Philly.
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: Just to tell you a little bit, we came from a, I guess, a musical family. We all were trained, all took piano lessons. We studied at the ... we all went to Catholic school, we lived right across the street from the church. We studied piano there, organ. From the very beginning we worked with the choirs. It was sort of cheap labor for the church because we played for everything. We had to play for all of the masses, for all of the special events. And then we worked also with the choir. I mean, it was a lot of good training back then. If fact, I can say I probably got some of the best training in terms of sight reading. The teacher that we had, this was a nun. She was very, very strict, very, very demanding. You had to transpose, you had to, you know, on the spot. And nuns back then didn't play.
Rusty Hassan: I don't know that. What was the name of the school? The Catholic school that you went to?
Judith Korey: The Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Rusty Hassan: Uh-huh.
Judith Korey: Nativity BVM.
Rusty Hassan: Okay.
Judith Korey: So I spent, of course, that was ... the Catholic schools were one through eight. And it was every day. 7:30 in the morning you had to go for the choir practice and worked with ... I worked with the second sopranos. My older sister worked with the altos. And we would have to train, teach the parts and then we'd have the choir and then go to class. But you were pulled out of class constantly by the music nun, to ...
Actually, when I think of it, the performances and everything, what we went through then, everything was easy after it, because she was so demanding. And we had the best training. I mean, after that, I could put a piece of music down, you could sight read anything.
Rusty Hassan: And all your siblings were taking this music?
Judith Korey: Everyone studied, some went farther, went to major in music. I went on to ... when I went to high school a number of us had music scholarships to high school. I went to Mount St Joseph Academy in Chestnut Hill, at that time, in Flourtown. And there it was the same thing, you had to play for everything. You played for all of the events, the musicals. And organ too, we both studied piano and organ. It was a lot of experience. And actually, the experience that I had from fourth grade on, when this nun came, was just invaluable.
And there I played, after that, went to college in Philadelphia. I was a double major. I was a pre-med chemistry major and a music major. And then, half way through, I decided, my whole life was spent in music and it was ... I first thought, "I want to be a doctor" the way my father was, but I said, "It was" ... after you spend your whole life doing this I knew there was no other choice. So at the end of my Sophomore year I just went totally into music and not chemistry but I always loved chemistry.
Rusty Hassan: Good. And what college was this?
Judith Korey: This was Chestnut Hill College.
Rusty Hassan: Okay.
Judith Korey: And after that ... I'm trying to think. At that time Philadelphia, too ... I had a lot of my experience, musical experience, outside of school because everything was, basically, classically trained there. But I used to go to The Second Fret, which in ... really, the blues was ... I just was really taken, you know, really, really just loved that. They would have people like Mississippi John Hurt, Sonny Terry
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and Brownie McGhee. I had a good friend, Jerry Ricks ... he's in that Blues Story, he's the narrator there?
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: ... a guitarist, really talented and he introduced me to a lot of music in general so I started listening from him. He was a great guitarist, blues, jazz as well. I started listening to Wes Montgomery. Of course, piano, Oscar Peterson. And, actually, some of the first albums ... I remember a couple albums that I got ... you know, that's when Sam Goody's was around-
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: ... was a Charles Mingus-
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: ... and John Handy.
Rusty Hassan: Okay.
Judith Korey: That was a strange combination. But I just loved ... the blues was really what got me started. I remember my senior year in college we had an Arts Festival and, knowing Jerry, I brought ... we were able to get Buddy Guy. This is when he was first ... it was 1969-
Rusty Hassan: Wow.
Judith Korey: ... so, we had Buddy Guy and his group played for ... Can you imagine at a Catholic college?
Rusty Hassan: Right?
Judith Korey: It was-
Rusty Hassan: yes.
Judith Korey: Yeah, and he was really just making a name for himself then. Because, I remember, Jerry went him on a state department tour and, I mean, after that he just went ... But I loved the blues and used to go to the ... you remember the folk festivals and all that?
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm. Sure,
Judith Korey: It was the hippy time but I, sort of, leaned more toward the beat.
Rusty Hassan: Okay. Sure. Sure.
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Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: At 21, I left Philly and came to DC, so ...
Rusty Hassan: What brought you to Washington?
Judith Korey: For graduate school ... if I had stayed in Philly I would have gone to Temple University but I got a scholarship to Catholic University. So I came to Washington, lived in Northeast. Where I initially lived was in Kaywood Gardens, you know, that thing-
Rusty Hassan: Sure, yeah. Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: ... for a few months, but then after that I got an apartment on 12th street right above Hefley stationary store, right across the street from the Italian store. Do you know where that is?
Rusty Hassan: Oh, right. Absolutely.
Judith Korey: Yeah, between Otis and Purry, and I loved the area and ... Catholic U sort of sent me in another direction.
Rusty Hassan: What years was this?
Judith Korey: I came here in 1969.
Rusty Hassan: Okay.
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Backing up a bit, did your parents have an interest in music?
Judith Korey: Both of them did, but my mother, she was more naturally musical but they were never trained. My mother, she was a nurse. My father was a doctor. They met when he was in medical school and they got married during the ... I guess it was the end of World War II. And she raised 10 children, so ... But all of them, she made sure that everybody studied.
Speaker 2: So they encouraged-
Judith Korey: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: ... you to study music.
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Judith Korey: Oh yeah. All of us studied piano. One of my younger brothers ... they're all young because I'm second oldest ... studied trumpet and I had one sister who studied violin. But most of them were all ... everyone studied piano and I had two sisters who went on to graduate school in piano and in music theory.
Speaker 2: Did your parents listen to music around the house?
Judith Korey: Yeah, they did. They had their sets of records. Most of the things, though ... the big bands they liked. I would say big bands and then my mother would have the Perry Como, you know, that-
Rusty Hassan: Uh-huh, sure. Sure.
Judith Korey: ... and the Frank Sinatra.
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: I'm trying to think of who else. My father liked the Mills Brothers.
Rusty Hassan: Uh-huh. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, at Catholic University, what was the music program like then? What were you doing?
Judith Korey: What was interesting at that time was, it was the whole Vietnam era, so you had some of the best musicians in the country were here in the military bands. So while they were here, they went ahead and got their graduate degrees at Catholic U so at that point Catholic U had one of the best orchestras around. So you had all of these people in the programs and not only that, they had ... the pianist I studied with, George Manos, he went on later to the National Gallery, he was the director there. Emerson Myers, who, really, was the first person to initiate electronic music, he created the studio there. They had the first Moog synthesizer, and, in fact, I ... well, I'll tell you a little bit more about that later. I was his assistant in the studio for years. So I got to ... you were in on all of the avant-garde music of that period.
Catholic U had a very good faculty. At that point, University of Maryland had still not really established themselves with the piano area so the great pianists came to Catholic University. The orchestra was there so you had a lot of, just, really, really fine musicians. And I was fortunate ... I really didn't want to major in theory but I didn't want to major in piano performance because it was, basically, classical. If they had had collaborative piano or accompanying, I probably would have done that but they didn't so ... I was always good at music theory so I continued in that but I took all my electives in piano and I did a lot of accompanying because that's what ... you made a little extra money with that and also that's what I loved. I really liked to accompany with vocalists, horn players, so I did that while I was there.
Speaker 2: Did you do any singing yourself?
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Judith Korey: No, no, no. I mean, singing with the choirs but not ... It was piano and, basically, piano and organ.
When I was in Philly, I always had church jobs but when I came down here I vowed, I said, "Never again." That was your Sundays. Couple times I subbed for people. Because my first year in DC I went ... every Sunday I took the train to Philadelphia to play for ... I was playing for a church right ... remember where Wanamaker's was, if you're familiar, downtown? There was ... I think it was St John's and they'd broadcast their mass every Sunday so I would play for that and when I left I still went back there every Sunday to do it. I did it for a year. I'd go and have the rehearsal, do that, have dinner with my family and then take the train back. But then after that I passed it on to my sister.
Rusty Hassan: Okay.
Judith Korey: And when I came here I said, "No more church jobs."
Rusty Hassan: Uh-huh. Did the other family members continue on with music and what are they doing now?
Judith Korey: Yeah. My one sister, my older sister, continued on in music and also in music education and my sister Jeanie. My sister Marie went into library. She ended up being ... she was head of the rare book division at the Philadelphia Library and also at the Library Company and then on to ... she's in Canada now. She was librarian at Massey College and published. She's really done quite a bit in that field. My brother studied as well but he's a physician. He's retired now but he was an OBGYN person. I'm going down the line now.
Rusty Hassan: Right.
Judith Korey: Felicia, Judy, Marie, Joe, okay now, we're Jean. Jean went in theater. She had a lot of musical talent, though, Jeanie but she did ... theater was where her heart was and right now she's teaching. She's teaching, actually, at the school that we went to. The high school we went. And Helene was a nurse, became a nurse. She's pretty much retired now. So everybody is retired but me.
After that ... Felicia, Judy, Marie, Joey, Jean, Helene, Bernadette ... Bernadette's teaching in English, a writer. And Cathy, she's married ... Most of them were married and with children ... but Cathy went on for music too. She was music theory and, I think, music education. And then my brother Dan was a research pharmacist but he was a good trumpet player too. And the last one, Tricia, was a really good pianist, very good pianist. But she had a nerve injury. That's the thing about all of these ... they go with all of these special teachers who show this type of ... I forget what it was but whatever it is, it caused a nerve injury and she had to stop playing for a year or two so, while she did, she went into law school so she got a law degree. That's what she's doing now. I think she works with a child service-
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Rusty Hassan: Okay.
Judith Korey: ... and that.
Rusty Hassan: Wow.
Judith Korey: So I think that's everybody.
Rusty Hassan: Go them covered. Very motivated family. Did Catholic University have a jazz component in the music program at all?
Judith Korey: Not then. They had people who played jazz but there was nothing ... just musicians that were-
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: ... there really wasn't a jazz component there. What they were most noted for in terms of contemporary music, was what was happening in the classical avant- garde. You had all of the ... John Cage. A lot the, what would have been, improvisational but not jazz. Not jazz. The aleatoric music. The people of that time ... let me go down the line. You would see ... I'm looking at the concerts because I was the assistant in the electronic lab but I also worked with a number of the composers, so they ... with a lot of the new notation that developed with the types of new sounds that they were doing.
Speaker 2: The Milton Babitt of the world.
Judith Korey: Yeah. Well, Milton Babitt, I was into ... and Stockhausen I never liked either but Lukas Foss ... who was the ... Larry ... I can't remember. He was at the University of Maryland. The name will come to me in a minute.
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: I'm trying to think of the names. Edgar Varese. I'm going blank now and I ... But, anyhow, a lot of the things were things that hadn't been done before. They were doing things with tape and piano or instruments so a lot of the times I'd be involved. And I did all the recordings at Catholic U at the time, too. I was hired in the lab but I also recorded and if they had performances that were with tape and instruments I was the one, who, from the audience, was doing that. Because everything was, you had to bring in the Scully tape recorders or the tambour tape recorders, set up the mics and everything and cue to when ...
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I remember one performance, it was at the ... I don't know if it was at the Phillips or the National Gallery, but it was for two pianos and tape and it was things that they had ... then you had to splice and everything, where all the cues were and sort of line it up to where the score was and where you would stop and start. And I was getting ready for the third cue and I pushed the fast forward button.
Speaker 2: Now, you've mentioned the blues when you were a high school student. And then you go to college-
Judith Korey: The blues were all through there.
Speaker 2: ... and you're working with experimental music-
Judith Korey: Um-hmm.
Speaker 2: ... electronic music.
Judith Korey: That was in grad school.
Speaker 2: In grad school.
Judith Korey: Um-hmm.
Speaker 2: When did jazz come on your radar screen?
Judith Korey: Well, I was listening to jazz when I was in Philly, too and while I was here. I'd go to the One Step Down even when I was in grad school. But the real involvement with jazz really didn't happen until Federal City College.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Judith Korey: And that was, I had just about finished my courses at ... in fact, I had finished all the course work for the doctorate but I hadn't written my masters thesis yet. I had to do that and then the doctorate. But I decided since I had the scholarship, to get all the courses finished. So I was waitressing one summer and I got a call from the Dean at Catholic University and said they need a theory teacher at Federal City College because their theory instructor was going on sabbatical.
Speaker 2: Well, when you were at Catholic, what was the jazz scene in DC like at that time?
Judith Korey: I didn't go to too many clubs. I went to the One Step occasionally, but not ... Maybe Blues Alley but I wasn't ... you're talking about the 70s, early 70s. I really didn't start going to a lot of the clubs until probably 76, something around then.
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Speaker 2: Who would you say were the prominent jazz musicians in Washington when you first started going to clubs?
Judith Korey: Buck Hill, Calvin Jones, Art Dawkins, Marshall Hawkins, I remember listening to that. The ... I'm trying to think. It was mainly people I met through here. Nathan Page.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Judith Korey: I'm trying to think of horn players. But Buck was one of the first. Gus Simms, piano-
Rusty Hassan: Sure, okay.
Judith Korey: ... Stump Saunders-
Rusty Hassan: Yeah.
Judith Korey: ... on the drums-
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: ... who was the one who'd always keep time really well? You know, he's in the ... it'll come to me-
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: ... too, I'm getting bad on names now. The ... Harold-
Rusty Hassan: Harold Mann.
Judith Korey: ... Harold Mann, too but there was ... the other one that played, he was ... I remember Calvin used to say, "Once you set the tempo he never varied." Oh, come on, you know him.
Rusty Hassan: We'll come back to that.
Judith Korey: It'll come to me-
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll come back.
Judith Korey: [inaudible 00:19:51]
Rusty Hassan: We'll get back to that.
Judith Korey: Yeah.
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Rusty Hassan: But-
Judith Korey: But they're the ones-
Rusty Hassan: Yeah.
Judith Korey: ... they're the names that I remember the most. This'll be after I started ... some of the people that I saw coming through at UDC. I remember when I started. I got the call from Dr. Paul, came in for my ... I was going to say, my audition ... for my interview at Federal City College ... this is when we were down at 916 G Street, right across from the Library and that was, yeah, 1972, 1972 ... and had my interview with ... I can say this, I have to laugh. I got there and nobody was there.
Rusty Hassan: Right.
Judith Korey: I should have known then.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: Right.
Judith Korey: Finally, the secretary came in, because, I told them I had a recording to do or I was taping at Catholic U, so, could they make the appointment 11:00 and not when they originally wanted. So they end up coming when they had originally had scheduled-
Rusty Hassan: Scheduled ...
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Judith Korey: ... so I guess it was just a misunderstanding.
Speaker 2: Um-hmm.
Rusty Hassan: Yeah.
Judith Korey: But, I had the interview with ... Dr. William Moore was chair of the department and-
Speaker 2: Chair of the music department?
Judith Korey: ... yeah, yeah. He was ... Federal City, though, at that point I think Dawkins was there too. He wasn't at the interview. But Federal City was really way ahead in terms of what ... their whole approach in incorporating music of the African American's into the curriculum. It one of the first times ... I remember Art saying it ... where you could take jazz for credit.
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Rusty Hassan: So Art Dawkins was already there when you came on?
Judith Korey: Yeah, he was there.
Rusty Hassan: Okay.
Speaker 2: What was he teaching?
Judith Korey: ... When I came, he had just gotten there. Hmm?
Rusty Hassan: Okay.
Speaker 2: What was he teaching?
Judith Korey: He was teaching the saxophone, woodwinds and also the big band. He and Bobby Felder had the band. Pearl Williams-Jones was there. She had just come and she was a major figure in gospel music. This was the other thing, gospel music and ... we had gospel ensemble where you could take it for credit. This was unheard of. They still don't have that at Howard. They have a gospel program, but, I mean, they have a gospel choir but it's not part of the music program. Also, we had ... Percy Gregory was a ... this was at Federal City ... a pianist and also a composer. William Moore, pianist, also a composer. Ernest Dyson-
Rusty Hassan: Oh, yes.
Judith Korey: ... you remember?
Rusty Hassan: Oh, sure.
Judith Korey: Ernest Dyson was there. He didn't stay too long. He was there before I came and I think he left, maybe, the year after, but he also introduced the class on jazz History and also Sound of Soul, which was really progressive for that time.
Rusty Hassan: Sure. He went on to Voice of America from there.
Judith Korey: Yeah, Voice of America and later on gave his ... after he passed his wife gave a collection to the archives.
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm. Um-hmm, uh-hmm.
Judith Korey: So, we'll get into that later.
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: But he was another interesting person and we were part of a division of fine arts and we had theater, music, mass media-
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Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: ... so it was a really, really exciting group of people. And then you had students, a lot of the students you had some people coming back from Vietnam and it was just a whole different mentality.
Rusty Hassan: Was Gil Scott-Heron at FCC-
Judith Korey: He was there-
Rusty Hassan: ... when you were there?
Judith Korey: ... yeah, he was there, but, we were ... I remember the English department was over here, where Art had a little thing here, so there were connections.
Rusty Hassan: Uh-huh.
Judith Korey: Bobby Felder and Art Dawkins had the ensemble. Davey Yarbrough was there when I came. He was a student when I came and I remember Pearl Jones brought ... Oh god, isn't this terrible? This is really-
Rusty Hassan: [inaudible 00:23:46]
Judith Korey: ... the sign because I was just thinking about it the other day. The pianist, great arranger too, that had Alzheimer's, I think.
Rusty Hassan: Oh.
Judith Korey: He's still ...
Rusty Hassan: [inaudible 00:24:01]
Judith Korey: He had some sort of dementia. He's ... you know him. I mean, he's ... god. He was with The Jazz messengers.
Speaker 2: Not Reuben Brown?
Judith Korey: No. No-
Speaker 2: Reuben, yeah-
Judith Korey: ... no, no, no-
Speaker 2: ... no, not Reuben.
Judith Korey: This was the one with Art Blakey. He started The Jazz Messengers and then left.
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Speaker 2: Horace Silver?
Rusty Hassan: Horace Silver.
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: Yeah, Horace.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Judith Korey: Thank god.
Rusty Hassan: Yes.
Judith Korey: Oh god.
Rusty Hassan: Yes, the late Horace Silver.
Judith Korey: It's amazing how-
Rusty Hassan: [inaudible 00:24:23]
Judith Korey: ... the names-
Rusty Hassan: The names escape you-
Judith Korey: ... you remember them-
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rusty Hassan: ... they do with all of us.
Speaker 2: All of us, right.
Rusty Hassan: They do. They do.
Judith Korey: Yeah. Yeah, Horace Silver.
Rusty Hassan: Famous names, wow.
Judith Korey: I remember he came, Horace Silver. He was here for something in Washington and Pearl Jones brought him to the University for a concert and Michael Brecker-
Rusty Hassan: Michael Brecker, yeah.
Judith Korey: ... was playing with him then.
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Rusty Hassan: The Brecker brothers, I think they were-
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: ... I think they were both with him-
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: ... around that time.
Speaker 2: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: Yeah. I interviewed Horace when he was here at that time. [crosstalk 00:24:50]
Judith Korey: They stayed at the ... I don't forget because one of the Breckers, he stayed at the Ambassador Hotel, the one that was on New York Avenue-
Rusty Hassan: Uh-huh.
Judith Korey: ... New York Avenue, yeah. So that was exciting to ... and that's the type of thing ... I remember they brought Nathan Page there one time and later on, when Calvin came, Reuben Brown-
Rusty Hassan: So, when Calvin came, it was still Federal City College?
Judith Korey: The first ... yeah. What happened was, they offered Art Dawkins the position at Howard University and he took the position at Howard University and that, sort of, left the program there in respect to what was going to happen. And Bobby, of course, knew Calvin for years, because they went back from Tennessee when Bobby was at, I think, at Fisk and Calvin was at Tennessee State. And I think what happened there was Bobby, a lot of times, would, in the summer he would come and play with the Tennessee State ensemble. So they knew each other from back then. So he brought Calvin and Calvin at that time had the Cardoza. He had been working in the public schools for quite a while. When he came of the road with Ray Charles he decided he was just going to stay in Washington DC and he had the education degree so he was teaching in the public schools. And eventually went to the Cardoza High School and they had, I remember, that ... one of the best stage bands for that time.
Speaker 2: So Calvin Jones came here to run the program?
Judith Korey: Um-hmm. Bobby brought him, really, to take Dawkins’ place, but then he had the added thing of the piano and also the arranging too. So he took over the jazz program. It wasn't a degree program at that time, they were still courses that were part of the whole curriculum. The degrees that we had were the bachelor
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of music in music education. But, of course, the beautiful part of that is that, those jazz classes were part of the curriculum-
Rusty Hassan: Okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Judith Korey: ... and it was so crucial for teachers, today. And also with the gospel area too, because Pearl Jones. And then eventually they ... by 1984 we had established a bachelor of music in Jazz Studies along with the other. But he came in 1976 so we were still Federal City and that's when the merger came so by 1977 it was UDC.
Rusty Hassan: What was that merger like? How long did that take and what was involved in that?
Judith Korey: The first group of people that came over were from DC Teachers college. We didn't have any problems in music because Federal City College really still controlled the whole of what we were about and what we were doing and the others ... the people that came over were more or less ... I don't want to say absorbed into what we were, but that happened fairly ... well, the one that didn't fit in, he was ready to retire anyhow so he ... you know, so, that sort of worked out. It was pretty smooth for us. In other areas it might have been problematic because you had duplication in a lot of cases and people losing jobs or not losing jobs. But in music we had a ... and at that point, too, we had a lot of scholarship support, so we were-
Speaker 2: And this was a merger between Federal City and-
Judith Korey: Federal City, DC Teachers College and Washington Technical Institute.
Speaker 2: Now, the other two entities in the merger, they didn't have any jazz studies or any-
Judith Korey: No.
Speaker 2: ... courses or anything?
Judith Korey: No, no.
Rusty Hassan: So everything was within FCC-
Judith Korey: Yeah, yeah. Really.
Rusty Hassan: ... came through.
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Judith Korey: They had a degree at DC Teachers College but it was more of the traditional. And WTI really didn't have any degrees there, they had ... but that's where the people from the marching band came in so that was the two people that had been hired through there, for the marching band. So that's where that ... and we were still downtown at that point. We were there ... I guess we moved up here, in 1981, to the Van Ness Campus. But it was interesting to be downtown because you had all of the ... especially for the ... Art was in our division too. You had all the museums, you had ... it was a different ... I really was sad when we moved up here.
Rusty Hassan: Okay. Yeah.
Judith Korey: You know.
Rusty Hassan: Yeah. Now, was it Federal City College or did it happen under UDC, when there were programs at the correctional facility down at Lorton Virginia?
Judith Korey: Ah. UDC had the ... actually, it was UDC at that point, when we ... because we ... wait, no. I'm trying to think. 70 ... I know, with the jazz program, we went to the ... they had programs from criminal justice, I think, were there. But we did a lot with Tony Taylor, and the Let 'Em Play?
Rusty Hassan: Just Let 'Em Play, um-hmm.
Judith Korey: And our ... and actually, Calvin went up there on his own, too, because we knew Snooks Riley was in there, the trombone player and ... I'm trying to think of who else. But we had gone up for a number of concerts and actually in maximum security too.
Rusty Hassan: There's a saxophonist named Carl Turner who later married Julie Moore.
Judith Korey: He probably ... I don't remember that, quite, but I know the septet went up. In fact, I have, still, programs from that. But it was part of a grant that Tony Taylor had gotten, Let "Em Play, and there were two. One was Jazz For The Sometime Forgotten and they were two different ... they were ... was it 1979 or 1980 when we went there? And I had gone even after that, too, because I played for one of the choirs there but the University did have a degree program there and it was at-
Speaker 2: At Lorton?
Judith Korey: Um-hmm.
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey Interview by Rusty Hassan_Part 1 Page 16 of 31
Judith Korey: They had a degree program, I don't know whether it was an associates degree or bachelors degree, but that went on for quite a while. And it was another tragedy too, when that ...
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm. Did that program have a music component in it?
Judith Korey: No.
Rusty Hassan: Where [crosstalk 00:31:03] okay.
Judith Korey: No, no, but I think the ... when we went there it was more of the ... just to ... one would say entertainment, but it was to-
Speaker 2: Performance and-
Judith Korey: Um-hmm.
Speaker 2: ... I guess, involvement-
Judith Korey: Um-hmm.
Speaker 2: ... to some degree, of-
Judith Korey: Um-hmm.
Speaker 2: ... some of the musicians who were there.
Judith Korey: Yeah. And, of course, they had ... but this didn't do anything to do with UDC ... but, the Lorton Concerts that Felix and ... that they did in the late 50s and 60s, that ... we have a lot of that information in the archives. All of those amazing ... Ella Fitzgerald, Count Basie, Louis Armstrong, Sarah Vaughn, the people that came to that, for ... that did it. And Tony Taylor was involved with that too, bringing a lot of the musicians to here. And Felix Grant was the MC for a lot of them. So, we have some photos and things in the archives, documenting that.
That was an amazing thing. When people visit the archives I always show them the program thing and there's one thing explaining what the concert was, because it was organized by the chaplain there, the catholic chaplains. And it was something that ... coming from the great heart of jazz, presenting this to that and it was just for the inmates, it wasn't for anybody else. It gives you a whole idea of how even the whole concept of how you treat prisoners, incarceration now. This was so uplifting and now there's ... now it's ...
Speaker 2: Right.
Rusty Hassan: How did the Lorton populace react, respond, to the music?
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Judith Korey: Oh my god, this was a major thing for the inmates. I did find there was one inmate that was still alive that was living in Virginia, where there was an article about it and talking about that and the relationship with that. We have ... in the archives, there are a lot of comments from the inmates about this, but this was a major event for them.
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: And, I'm telling you, the artists that came there were ... We have great photos of ... with Oscar Peterson, Ed Thigpen and Ray Brown.
Speaker 2: What was the frequency of these programs?
Judith Korey: They did them in the summer. From about the late ... it was maybe mid 50s until ... Ray Charles was there too, I'm just remembering ... into the mid 60s..
Rusty Hassan: Okay.
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And who went about securing the artists?
Judith Korey: Tony Taylor was the one, because he was, probably, at the Bohemian at that time too.
Rusty Hassan: He was at the Bohemian Caverns at that time?
Speaker 2: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: And so he would propagate and then, I guess, negotiating with ... because most of them, if they were here ... Nancy Wilson was there too, I remember ... they would ... when I'm saying, "I remember" I remember from what's in the archives, because I wasn't here then ... I'm trying to think if Steve ... Steve Novosel might have gone out there too, at one point, for one of the things ... but I think it was done through, probably, through Tony Taylor.
Rusty Hassan: Okay. Um-hmm, um-hmm.
Judith Korey: I'll never forget those things that we did with him out at Lorton. He had ... the septet that Calvin had was the main group that he used, and then he'd have ... there was this one tap dancer, Mr. Rhythm. Did you-
Rusty Hassan: Right. I remember Mr. Rhythm from the new thing ... what a character he was.
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Judith Korey: Carl. Carl.
Rusty Hassan: Yes.
Judith Korey: And Calvin used to say, he said, "He was never one of the ..." He used to hang around the Howard Theatre, right?
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Speaker 2: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: Run errands and stuff and if someone didn't show up he would fill in for them. But he would come ... this was a big thing for him, too-
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: ... he would come in and he could barely-
Rusty Hassan: Yeah, I know. He shuffled-
Judith Korey: ... shuffle.
Rusty Hassan: ... more than he could tap dance. Mr. Rhythm.
Speaker 2: So by the time you got to-
Rusty Hassan: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... Federal City College-
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Speaker 2: ... and this whole evolution of the jazz program with Calvin Jones coming on, what was the jazz scene in Washington like then?
Judith Korey: Um-hmm. I remember there was ... we had Top of the Foolery, the One Step Down with Reuben and there was a place up here on Connecticut Avenue, I can't think of the name, and then, what they did too, I remember going down to Club Hollywood-
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: ... they were trying to revive that on U street.
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
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Judith Korey: But that didn't happen so frequently. I remember pretty much the same people, the DC people and then the singer, of course, was Ronnie Wells. She was-
Rusty Hassan: She was at the Top of the Foolery?
Judith Korey: ... yeah, and Nathan Page, I think, was there too and Andrew, with the-
Rusty Hassan: Andrew White-
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: ... and Deuce Marathon-
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: ... was at the Foolery before-
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: ... the the other one stepped down.
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: Did you-
Speaker 2: How would you describe the jazz scene in Washington at that time?
Judith Korey: At that point I would go out but most of the things I was doing ... What happened to me, musically, was once ... because I had even asked Dawkins. I had always loved jazz but I wanted to know more about it, to be more involved. So, when he left, Calvin came and I used to start sitting in his classes. I would sit in the improve classes and he gave me a thing for voicings and everything. I remember he ... the first ... he let me play ... it was, This Is All I Ask, with trombone and rhythm section? And it was a hard ... yeah, and I thought I could accompany right, but this was a whole different experience because it was a different thing. Here I'm trying to follow him and ... so it was a whole different thing, but-
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Judith Korey: ... what helped me, was, realize what an incredible art form it was. As a player, to really ... how complex it was and what you had to do and what ... That's why the jazz players are the most musical, they hear better then anybody, because they have to. How they can create on the spot. So I would ... I went into the arranging classes, I went to that. I would sit in on the big band things and when
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there was no pianist I would sit in and it was a ... that changed my whole life. I, of course, never became a great performer and that but I have such a respect and can sit down and ... you know.
Speaker 2: Now, are we still talking about Federal City College or-
Judith Korey: No, this is UDC at this point.
Speaker 2: Are we talking UDC Van Ness or still downtown?
Judith Korey: No, it started downtown, because-
Speaker 2: Okay.
Judith Korey: ... I started sitting in right away so you're talking about ... The first year of 76 I started, but by 77 I was going into all the classes and then that's UDC. UDC, the merger was in 77. We moved up here in 81 and when we moved up here there was a point there were there wasn't a pianist with the big band, where you needed some reading capabilities, too, and so I was playing with the big band for all the rehearsals. And that was just a-
Speaker 2: Under Calvin Jones, how did the jazz activity at UDC, how did that evolve to a degree program?
Judith Korey: Well, the degree program was formed ... eventually in 1984 it was formalized ... but as soon as he came he started, immediately, with the performances. He would have the big band, he had a lot of vocalists, which was one of his forte's who he knew he could really work with, with a lot of the vocalists. So they were coming out of the woodwork. And he had a vocal ensemble. Then he also had that thing with all these vocalists. When you have 10 women, some jealous of each other, you know, that whole thing. It was sort of funny. I remember because I used to record those things when we were down at T-10. We'd have them in room 200. He would start ...
And then he would take these small groups and go out. They did so much in the community. I remember when I was writing this article, just listing the things that were done. Playing for the National Negro College Fund, for the Urban League, for the Savings Bond thing. There were things that he was called on to do all the time. And he brought the band out and they would play for all of these events in the community. They could be at hotels, a lot of government things. A lot of things in the community, so ... and he got calls all the time in addition to the Lorton thing, all of these others.
And he'd either use a small group, the septet ... And he started bringing them in on Saturdays, he would ... And during the summer he would have these workshops, because I have one of the ... I do this in the article, too ... the bass player, Eric Summers ... he's a vice-principal ... he came to Calvin and he said,
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"Can you help me out with some of these changes?" So he said, "Yeah, I'll do it" so, what happened was, all of these other people started coming and Eric was saying, he said, "First I was mad as hell because I thought I was getting a private lesson" but then he realized it was the more the merrier, in a sense. And he took that with him as far as what he did in his teaching.
He would do these things in the summer gratis. He would just have these workshops. They started down there and then when we moved here, every Saturday, the septet would come. It was a rehearsal band. It was just the ... was it Ralph ... eventually Nasar, James King, they ... the first drummer was Eric Johnson and then it was ... Nasar came, he brought him. Keith Holmes, trumpet player. I remember it was three horns and rhythm and then four horns and then sometimes he'd play piano for that. And then it was, eventually, he'd play trombone and then we'd have people like Aaron Graves, you know, that. So it ... as it ...
But all of these things ... I remember during the summer, here ... this was before it was renovated ... we moved here in 81 ... every summer it became like a community center for a lot of the musicians that would be coming through or people that were here, not in just our program, but just would come and play. And learn all the standards and ... Michael Bowie was here. Michael Bowie studied ... in fact, he almost finished his education degree. He was here back in ... I'm trying to think ... it had to be in the 80s. Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: Well, I'm just curious how ... He had the band-
Judith Korey: Um-hmm.
Rusty Hassan: ... and he had a few jazz related choruses.
Judith Korey: Um-hmm.
Rusty Hassan: What is, or in this case, what was the process-
Judith Korey: To get a degree?
Rusty Hassan: ... for those courses becoming an actual degree for the-
Judith Korey: Okay. Well, it was approved in 1984 but we worked on it, looking at different curriculum, what ... looked at other schools too, to see, but a lot of it was, "Okay, what we have, the basic chore courses you would have in any music program." Your theory, the ear training, history ones. And then looking at it, "Okay, what do you need?" Obviously your applied lessons, everybody has applied lessons, this horn, a piano or voice. And then the improv, which goes throughout the curriculum.
Judith Korey Interview by Rusty Hassan_Part 1 Page 22 of 31
So if you have a four year degree, you have eight semesters of improv. Eight semesters of applied music. Eight semesters, minimum, of ensemble. And then with the way we looked at the program as far as the ensembles, a minimum of four big band and four smaller ensemble. And that was comparable to what ... And then arranging. In the traditional ones, the third year you would have orchestration or whatever. We had jazz arranging I and II and then the advanced arranging composition class. So you had three courses in that to compliment the improv, which went throughout that. You had a recital each semester plus your ensemble recitals and then a junior and a senior recital.
Rusty Hassan: So, with all those elements-
Judith Korey: Um-hmm.
Rusty Hassan: ... in becoming a degree program, is this the kind of thing that the ... those who teach those courses have to make a case to the University or is it ... I'm curious about that process and how it becomes a degree program, because it is ... I doubt, you may correct me, but it's not as though the administration woke up one day and said, "Well, we got all this jazz activity, we need a degree program."
Judith Korey: No, it from the music program itself. We're the ones that presented it. And of course you had this ... there was never any question. We were the first University to have a degree program in gospel music. That was unheard of. Probably the only one in the area, now. I think, now it's becoming ... I think there are one or two. But we were the first one in the nation to have a degree in gospel music studies and Pearl Williams-Jones was very instrumental in that because she did a lot of writing and, I don't want to say, to ... saying that it is an art form and not ... in justifying this, which is what you always had to do. More for the gospel than even for the jazz. Although, with jazz, you still had the ... and I think it was because people just didn't understand ... you still had that thing, with some instructors, saying, "It's gonna hurt your throat" or "It's gonna do this." That mentality, but ...
What I find funny, is that, we were doing this way back then and there was no problem getting it approved, because, I told you, we still had that ... The leadership we had was in music was still ... And the leadership at the University was pro these things happening. The jazz program was important to them from the very beginning. And even though a lot of the students still opted for the education degree because of the possibilities of work, teaching after it, those courses were integral to creating a good teacher. So their ensemble experiences were usually ... if they're instrumental people, most of them were in the jazz ensembles because if they're ... that's the thing that I ...
Now, if you're gonna go out and teach and direct an ensemble, these things that they have now, a workshop for these teachers, and you go to two workshops and you're gonna be certified to teach jazz, is ridiculous. You need people who know the music teaching it. And I think that's the ... people that come out of those experiences from the ground up, to ... and watching somebody like Calvin Judith Korey Interview by Rusty Hassan_Part 1 Page 23 of 31
or Dawkins teach, just to emulate them is a way. And I think the thing about Calvin, that he maintained, was ...
You go to so many of these schools now and it becomes so divorced from the way the music was created. Where it becomes, on the blackboard and so sterile. And I think his gift was how he was able to maintain how that music was ... how jazz musicians learn their craft. And he was able to transfer that into the academic arena. And I think that was his gift and he loved teaching and was very generous with his time and with ... people call, if they needed a chart he'd send them the chart. There was never ... especially with the students, there was never any question.
That's what came out of here, is that you were still learning it in the sense of the way the jazz was ... the way it came up and not the way, unfortunately, I think, it's taught in so many places now.
Rusty Hassan: Once it became a degree program-
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: ... was there active recruitment or did students just come to realize that they could get a good jazz education at UVC?
Judith Korey: The recruitment ... we were still dealing with pretty much, local, dealing with the public schools. Unfortunately, what I saw from when we first ... even moving up here ... was that the public schools ... the deterioration of the instrumental programs in the public schools over the years. When I first came here, so many of the people that would initially come in, let's say, through the marching band. And this was before, I'm not ... maybe not even interested in jazz, but it came in that way. But then, listening to what happened, became part of the ensemble and were trained that way. Then you had some people who were ... the reputation of what was going on in the summer, in those small groups. People like Nasar and James and those people that were obviously coming from a more ... the jazz ... Aaron Graves, Tracy Cutler, who came from Cardoza, he was ... and you know, all of those people were ... he brought a lot of people with him from Cardoza. Good trombone players and some horn players.
But a lot of what we got from the public schools were ... they were there because they had instrumental programs. Now, you look today and outside of ... okay, you have Ellington and you have a couple other schools. The instrumental thing has really ... hopefully, it was coming up again, but, it's not ... and you can go into the county and the counties have ... the schools you have, you have ensembles. But the district has been ... I know a lot of teachers now, they have them teaching that we're instrumental or teaching general music, which is ... that's the crime. You're not getting the feeders that we used to have.
Speaker 2: I'm sure.
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Judith Korey: But we are ... have Bruce Williams came here. He talks about, he says Joan saved his life, you know ...
Rusty Hassan: Uh-huh. Okay. Yes.
Judith Korey: And they took this and ... The other thing that's unique about, I think, here, too is, with us it's not just, I'm gonna come in and get a degree. We have people that come in because it's the experience.
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: You know what I mean? The experience to be here and learn. Some of them completed degrees, some of them go on before, like Bruce. Bruce went on. But this is their home. When they come back, it's still what they have here. Now having somebody now, like Alan. Alan has ... you see, that can attract. What we're working for now is more ... because the tuition has gone up ... is the scholarship support to really bring people here, because that's really what's been missing. We used to have the tuition ... we used to get ... and this was not too long ago. You could come and go to school here for 500 dollars a semester. And we had scholarships too, so the ensembles were filled. Not just the jazz ensembles but the choir, the gospel choir. All of that, but-
Speaker 2: You mentioned Alan. Alan Johnson.
Judith Korey: Um-hmm.
Speaker 2: How did Alan Johnson come here?
Judith Korey: Alan was a ... he was a ... it was funny too ... a pre-med major at GW for a semester, but he was in the practice rooms, he bumped into Dwayne Adell. And Dwayne said, "You've got to come up and meet Calvin Jones and study with him." The ironic part is, Dwayne came here because Reuben told him to come up and work with Jones. And I remember, because Reuben ... Calvin used to say Reuben and he used to work on ... he'd help Reuben with arranging and stuff, too, so there was that ... all those relationships that go back. Reuben's the one who sent Dwayne here and Dwayne told Alan to come up. Alan came up and, usually, when people come through the door, sometimes I'm the first person they see.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Judith Korey: At this point, by ... I was assisting ... just to give you ... and I'll tell you a little bit more with Alan ... I was assisting Dr. Moore with the administration, just some of the ... in addition to teaching, helping with the administrative part of it. One of the previous chairs from DC Teachers College, Dr Mandle, did the same. Our offices were right over together and we would help with that, and Dr. Moore became very sick. Eventually I sort of took over Dr. Mandle and I was still
Judith Korey Interview by Rusty Hassan_Part 1 Page 25 of 31
dealing with a lot of the administrative work. So when people would come in, that's why they would usually see me. And then, eventually, I more or less had to take over all of it.
But Alan came in and he sat down and I said, "Play something." And you can hear right away when someone has that feel.
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: So I brought-
Speaker 2: What year was this?
Judith Korey: He came in 19 ... this was in the 90s. 1991 or 2, something like that, because he finished in 97. Maybe it was 93, something like that. 1993.
Speaker 2: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: I'm trying to think what happened. The archive's thing, I'll go back on that-
Rusty Hassan: You can archive later, sure.
Judith Korey: ... because idea that. But remember, before, we always had good pianists here. Always. Alan, of course ... I think my two ... two of my ... Mark Cary was here for a short time, too, before he went up to New York. Aaron Graves, who was ... he was ... really, really talented pianist as well. I think he played on the first big band festival. I think Mark was there after it. But we always had good pianists. So, when I brought Calvin in to listen to him and Calvin just shook his head and then Alan was like this, and he said, "Man, don't be so militant" to Alan. Alan always remembers that. He came in and just sucked up everything, you know. Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: Tell us about the big band festival and how that started.
Judith Korey: Well, in 1987 a city wide committee was formed to ... they were celebrating Ellington. A week of Ellington. And of course Felix Grant was very involved with this because Ellington was his-
Rusty Hassan: Sure-
Judith Korey: ... you know. I think it was Barbara Nicholson from the ... she was at the DC commission at that time. I think even Brower was on that committee as well. Bill Brower was on it. And there were a number ... the Cassells, he was on it ... a number of people. They met to do this week long activity. So, what happened when ... Bobby Felder was on it, Edith ... this is when we had the radio station ... Edith Smith. Calvin ... but Bobby's the one that goes to the committees. Calvin
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wasn't too much of committee person, but he ... but Bobby really was always on top of things like that.
During the time they had different events that were happening and ... What was supposed to be the show of shows ... I think it was going to be at Lisner Auditorium ... was supposed to be the major event but Bobby had suggested, "Let's have a big band festival from the ... concert of the big band in this area." because he knew at that time we had a good big band. University of Maryland and, I think, George Ross was there. And, of course, RB was with Howard University.
So, first ... I can remember a couple of them on the committed didn't think ... Aw, that's not gonna be anything. Well, it turned out to be the best ... not the best, but the well attended and really exciting event for the whole week. The place was packed. There were people ... you know-
Rusty Hassan: Um-hmm.
Judith Korey: ... it was just incredible and the spirit there. It was just really, really ... Calvin did all Ellington charts for the ... arranged a whole ... all of the five pieces that he did were all Ellington and I think, Aaron ... yeah, Aaron was on that one, Aaron Graves, but-
Speaker 2: What year was the first one?
Judith Korey: 1987.
Rusty Hassan: 1987.
Speaker 2: And was it the same three colleges or Universities every year?
Judith Korey: Um-hmm. Always. Yeah. It, traditionally, was the three colleges and we've kept it that way for 31 years-
Rusty Hassan: Absolutely.
Judith Korey: ... and going on to the 32nd.
Speaker 2: So when it was first performed as part of this festival, was it conceived as an annual event or how did that [crosstalk 00:55:30]?
Judith Korey: No. Well, the next year, it was so successful we did it again. Then in 1989, Bobby was going on sabbatical and he wanted to stop it and I said, "No." So I sort of took over the production part of it at that point. And I've been dealing with it ever since then. So, then it just became the third annual and then the fourth annual and the fifth annual, and it just ... Can you imagine 30 ... up to 32 now?
Judith Korey Interview by Rusty Hassan_Part 1 Page 27 of 31
Rusty Hassan: Absolutely.
Judith Korey: Oh god.
Rusty Hassan: Absolutely, and so you've been-
Judith Korey: I'm trying to think. When George Ross died in ‘93 and then we did ... that one year Maryland didn't play. We had ... it was the Capital. We had Reuben Brown, Art Dawkins, Calvin Jones, James and, I guess, Nasar. They did a tribute to George Ross. So, instead of Maryland playing, that one year, the quintet did. And then after that, what's his name ... that's terrible ... Chris Vadala.
Rusty Hassan: Chris Vadala.
Speaker 2: Yes. Chris Vadala took it over.
Judith Korey: Chris Vadala took over the band, yeah and he's ... and of course, our ... The one person who's been there since the very beginning is Fred. Fred Irby.
Rusty Hassan: Fred Irby with the Howard band, sure.
Judith Korey: Yeah. And then Calvin passed in 2004-
Rusty Hassan: Okay.
Judith Korey: Actually, when Alan graduated, I think, in 96, and we had ... Calvin was teaching everything. We had some adjuncts at some point but ... There was some money but then they would encourage people to get some adjuncts, so they were, "Where could it help?" And I said, "We've got the perfect [inaudible 00:57:09] Alan Johnson." Calvin had already ... and so he came on as an adjunct to teach piano and some of the other ... the beginning improv classes and things. So when Calvin passed, suddenly like that, it was just a-
Rusty Hassan: Automatic thing for Alan to take it over.
Judith Korey: ... it just was a smooth ... yeah.
Rusty Hassan: Sure. Sure. I wanna go back to around 1980 when Georgetown University gave away the broadcast license and it was given to the University of the District of Columbia. Was there any involvement with the music program with the setting of the establishment of the radio station?
Judith Korey: No, the first person who ... who was the African guy? What was his name? [Olyawali 00:58:08].
Rusty Hassan: Oh yeah,
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Judith Korey: Godwin [Olyawali 00:58:08].
Rusty Hassan: Godwin, right.
Judith Korey: No. At that point, when he had the station, we went over ... I remember a couple ... he did some interviews or whatever, but there wasn't any real connection until when Edith took over.
Rusty Hassan: Edith took over. Okay.
Judith Korey: It wasn't so much that we were ... well, we were involved in the sense that they would bring artists in, we would got over ... there was a connection with the big band festival as well.
Rusty Hassan: Sure, sure, right.
Judith Korey: Those types of things. So, we had a lot of joint projects and it was just ... because I remember when they had ... George Benson was here, I remember, and they brought him over here or they had the trumpet player. The one that's ... god. Whenever they had, they would share-
Rusty Hassan: Share, okay. Fine.
Judith Korey: ... bring over here. And a lot of the shows would feature ... Ernest White's show. We did a number of-
Rusty Hassan: A talk show, right.
Judith Korey: ... yah, the Crosstalk.
Rusty Hassan: Right.
Judith Korey: That was a ... Ernest's show was just an incredible thing for the community.
Rusty Hassan: Yes. Absolutely.
Judith Korey: They did some for the TV but we have a ... And a lot of those shows we have in the archives.
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: Yeah.
Rusty Hassan: Now, Phil Stranton and I came here the same year as the inaugural of the big band festival.
Judith Korey: 87.
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Rusty Hassan: 87.
Judith Korey: Um-hmm.
Rusty Hassan: Tell us about Felix Grant.
Judith Korey: Yeah, well, that was another thing that came out of that week of Ellington activities. At that point he was at WRC, but WRC was now going into ... all these stations going more into talk formats and so he ... Edith Smith, who was the general manager then, invited him to do his World of Jazz show on Saturdays at the station. And it was ... at that time he was not well, either, remember, he was sick, but he was ... We were just blessed to have him-
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: ... and it turned out to be-
Rusty Hassan: Tell us about Felix. Go back a little bit since you've learned so much about him since-
Judith Korey: About Felix?
Rusty Hassan: ...since you've started. Yes. Tell us about Felix.
Judith Korey: I know Felix more from his wife-
Rusty Hassan: Sure.
Judith Korey: ... from June, because she's the one that I had the most contact with, but my contact with Felix, he was such a, I guess, gentleman is what you ... He was such a ... and meticulous in everything that he did. In the very beginning, with him being here, I think, his being here at the University, he grew ... It was the last place he worked, he was very attached, in a sense, to it.
Rusty Hassan: Tell us a little bit about his history and why it was so important for the University to have him at this particular station. A little bit about his career and why-
Judith Korey: Oh, why-
Rusty Hassan: ... why he's so important, in terms-
Judith Korey: Well, Felix was ... he was broadcasting in this area from about 1945. Started out at WDC, went on to WMAL where he had the longest career. He introduced so many musicians and so many artists to the community. Everybody, the taxi drivers knew him, the musicians would tune in. He said that his producers, the managers at WMAL, never cared for the music but he sort of ... he called it the
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album sound because at that point LP's were in, so, he called it the album sound and he was able to play ... he said that managers never really liked the music he was playing but he was so ... He introduced artists, he introduced Bossa Nova, the Brazil ... not just Bossa Nova but Brazilian music. He was playing Miesa and Bonfa-
Rusty Hassan: Luiz Bonfa, yeah.
Judith Korey: Yeah, Luiz Bonfa, long before it was considered mainstream.
Rusty Hassan: Reggae music-
Judith Korey: Yeah, raggae music. In fact, there's a library with ... Melba Liston was in, I think, Kingston at that time, and they have a library down there where he gave a number of albums. He was always giving albums out. He was very important, I think, for the city and would ... just loved the music. Loved the music and had such a respect for it and his shows were not ... I
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