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Life

NATIONALstories Review and Accounts

IN PARTNERSHIP 2008/2009 WITH National Life Stories

When many people think about history, they think about books For more than two decades it has initiated a series of innovative and documents, castles or stately homes. In fact history is all interviewing programmes funded almost entirely from sponsorship, around us, in our own families and communities, in the living charitable and individual donations and voluntary effort. memories and experiences of older people. Everyone has a story to tell about their life which is unique to them. Whilst some Each collection comprises recorded in­depth interviews of a people have been involved in momentous historical events, high standard, plus content summaries and transcripts to assist regardless of age or importance we all have interesting life users. Access is provided via the Sound Archive’s catalogue at stories to share. Unfortunately, because memories die when www.cadensa.bl.uk and a growing number of interviews are people do, if we don’t record what people tell us, that history being digitised for remote web use. Each individual life story can be lost forever. interview is several hours long, covering family background, childhood, education, work, leisure and later life. National Life Stories was established in 1987 to ‘record first­ hand experiences of as wide a cross­section of present­day Alongside the British Sound Archive’s other oral history society as possible’. As an independent charitable trust within holdings, which stretch back to the beginning of the twentieth the Oral History Section of the British Library Sound Archive, century, NLS’s recordings form a unique and invaluable record NLS’s key focus and expertise has been oral history fieldwork. of people’s lives in Britain today.

PRESIDENT PROJECT INTERVIEWERS Penelope Curtis TRUSTEES Lord Asa Briggs Harriet Devine (Artists’ Lives) Bob Boas (Legacy of the English Rachel Cutler Sir John Craven PAST CHAIRMAN Stage Company) (Oral History of Sir Nicholas Goodison Martyn Goff CBE Niamh Dillon British Athletics) Steve Howard (Tesco: An Oral History, Stephen Feeke Penelope Lively OBE FOUNDER Architects’ Lives, Chefs) (Artists’ Lives) Dr Robert Perks Professor Paul Thompson Alison Gilmour Barbara Gibson Dorothy Sheridan MBE (Oral History of (HIV/Aids Testimonies) Sir Harry Solomon CHAIRMAN the Water Industry) Mel Gooding Professor Paul Thompson Sir Nicholas Goodison Katharine Haydon (Artists’ Lives) Caroline Waldegrave OBE (Oral History of Barings) Alistair O’Neill David Webster DIRECTOR Hughes (Oral History and Jennifer Wingate Dr Robert Perks (Crafts Lives) British Fashion) Sarah O’Reilly Lydia O’Ryan NLS ADVISORS ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR (Authors’ Lives) (Oral History of Theatre Sir Terence Beckett Jennifer Wingate Hester Westley Design, Artists’ Lives) Eric de Bellaigue (Artists’ Lives) Monica Petzal Lord Bragg TREASURER Elizabeth Wright (Artists’ Lives) Dr David Butler Bob Boas (Oral History of Shirley Read Professor Mary Chamberlain Theatre Design) (Oral History of Sir Roger Gibbs PROJECT OFFICER British Photography) Dr Mark Girouard Cathy Courtney TRANSCRIBERS Wendy Rickard Martyn Goff CBE Susan Hutton (HIV/Aids Testimonies) Dundas Hamilton CBE ADMINISTRATOR Susan Nicholls Melanie Roberts Professor Leslie Hannah (Artists’ Lives) Dame Jennifer Jenkins FREELANCE ORAL Jenny Simmons Sharon Johnson CATALOGUER HISTORY INTERVIEWERS (Artists’ Lives) Austin Mitchell MP Dr Alex King Martin Barnes Jon Wood Professor John Saville (Oral History (Artists’ Lives) Jonathan Taylor CBE ARCHIVE ASSISTANTS of British Photography) Victoria Worsley Bill Williams Elspeth Millar Louise Brodie (Artists’ Lives) Lord Young of Graffham Susannah Cole (Pioneers in Charity and Social Welfare, Oral History VOLUNTEERS of the British Press, Down to Claire Fons Earth: An Oral History of Sarah Griffiths British Horticulture) Audrie Mundy Chairman’s Foreword

In one of our City interviews in 1995 Nick Durlacher, then , , and Scottish Water. As Chairman of the International Futures Exchange, with previous National Life Stories projects focusing on industry remarked that traders were involved in business that could – food, steel, oil and gas, and the Post Office – this will be a exceed “their true net worth and capital resources. That’s top­to­bottom project with an emphasis on long­serving staff. great when everything’s running for you and brings lots of success… But when things turn stormy, people see that the Although we attract support from the business community we Emperor has no clothes.” remain committed to collecting life stories from the broadest range of British society. All National Life Stories projects are I am sure that he would say the same today, but in stronger scoped to gather recordings from both managers and workers, terms. In the midst of the current financial and economic crisis from the well­known and the unknown, from the vocal and it is worth restating the important role that oral history can the rarely heard, from a balance of gender and background. play in documenting historical change through personal And where we are not the most appropriate body for carrying experience. Oral history helps us to see not only past events out this work, or where funding is difficult to come by, the as they happened, but also the present through the prism of British Library’s oral history section (of which we are part) the past. The internal world of London’s thriving financial works with external partners or commissions interviews from centre that we captured between 1987 and 1996 in our its own slim resources. Much recent oral history work in the interviews through one of our first projects, City Lives, may areas of health and disability, for example, has been achieved have largely disappeared but the origins of more recent events through this model of working. can be gleaned from the archived recordings. Events such as ‘Big Bang’ in 1986, the Lloyd’s of London debacle, and the Like many charities National Life Stories faces difficult financial collapse of Barings Bank in 1995, which seemed so significant challenges and continues to rely on the generosity of grant­ at the time, can now be assessed in a new context. What making trusts, corporate and individual donors for all its work. better time, then, for our new partnership project with The The British Library has provided invaluable support, which in Baring Archive to gather thirty interviews about the rise the current climate is more important than ever. and fall of a merchant bank within living memory? On behalf of the Trustees my thanks go to each one of our Another sector that has undergone significant change over staff and volunteers for another year of achievement, and to recent years, particularly since privatisation in 1989, has been our donors who have made it possible. the water industry and we are pleased to have received sufficient funding for a short series of recordings with long­ serving staff in the industry. It is an area that has hitherto been almost entirely ignored by historians. We are grateful to the handful of water companies that shared our belief that a Sir Nicholas Goodison collection of interviews might redress that gap: Wessex, Chairman of Trustees

1 Review of 2008

Rob Perks, Director, National Life Stories

Collections and projects

Despite the vital role that water plays in all our lives, it is a Authors’ Lives has been amongst our most active projects: sector almost entirely undocumented by historians. Very few over twenty interviews have been completed and later in key players involved in the enormous post­war changes in this Review project interviewer Sarah O’Reilly reflects on ownership and technological advances have been interviewed, developments so far. The longest and most in­depth let alone the lesser­known engineers, maintenance men, recordings have been with Booker Prize­winning tunnellers and water quality staff. Over the past year we have Penelope Lively (30 hours), novelist and playwright Michael been able to raise sufficient funding to carry out a short series Frayn and biographer Michael Holroyd (27 hours each). of recordings with people working in the UK water industry. In agreement with the Arts Council of , which part­ An Oral History of the Water Industry will focus initially on funded the project, we were keen to ensure that poets were five water companies, representative of urban and rural supply not neglected and recordings have now been completed with (Yorkshire and Wessex), differing scales of activity (Cambridge , R V Bailey, Alan Brownjohn, U A Fanthorpe, and Northumbria), and non­privatised businesses (Scottish Anthony Thwaite and Allen Fisher. Support from the Booker Water). The project will gather life story recordings reflecting Prize Foundation has usefully enabled us to interview some the period up to the 1973 Water Bill (which reformed over younger , notably 2008 shortlisted authors Linda 1,500 water and waste organisations into ten water authorities); Grant (The Clothes on Their Backs) and Philip Hensher the impact of privatisation (in England and Wales) in 1989; and (The Northern Clemency). the more recent regulatory changes around water quality and the environment. Our interviews with Chefs have continued, thanks to the generosity of Sir John Craven. Niamh Dillon has gathered The Legacy of the English Stage Company (supported by the recordings with Michel Roux (to join an earlier interview John Hodgson Theatre Research Trust) is detailed elsewhere with brother Albert); Alastair Little (whose eponymous Soho in this Review and has progressed to include interviews with restaurant opened in 1985, serving ‘British’ food from an open directors connected to the , amongst them kitchen); Pierre Koffman (head chef at La Tante Claire); Michel Michael Geliot, Max Stafford­Clark, Donald Howarth, Ann Bourdin (who retired as head chef at the Connaught in 2001 Jellicoe, David Gothard, Bill Gaskill and . The after 26 years); and Cyrus Todiwala of Café Spice Namasté, who collection complements the interviews that doctoral student brought his particular style of Indian cuisine to London from Liz Wright has been recording in partnership with Wimbledon Bombay in 1991. This recording adds to existing interviews College of Art (University of the Arts London) for An Oral about ethnic food in Britain which we hold in the archive. History of Theatre Design.

Cyrus Todiwala of Café Spice Namasté.

Todiwala

Cyrus

of

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Photo courtesy of The Baring Archive Barings astronomy of The sciences History sciences). death is Partnerships An Building Britain’s from we the development nature Baring industry, 1950s and 1960s its in that events perhaps the the collapse Oral have City’s Factory 1980s this every America, of offices history four during for Securities, of the of first on and History forged Steve project and first Fundraising a pension best­known British and timing planned Barings and our level traditional in of female engineering) the of of a the ‘knowledge Life Biko. South­East physics). successful a period acquisition will Barings’ banking of of 1960s. emergence partnership Science became for funds diversified (biomedicine) the Barings. law thematic We explore. this continues merchant as of bank, lord; expect and corporate in the City during mergers and project management’ involved Asia by Britain, Through and areas: with of In lawyer private the internationally A Lives ING and to for the fund Changing 2009, banking and Sir is project The get and in the Made in financial propitious. it light Eastern project, Sydney at individuals. management Cosmologies is 1995 the thirty underway Baring acquisitions the beginning remaining Barings’ lawyers; of will business, in new Planet inquest was completed recent Europe. interviews Kentridge, Britain services and, Archive explore markets a broader with In Lady with strands: (earth through pivotal into financial in the (maths, in (applied the Whilst in to the An British the Hale, two in drawn who the the of 1970s create story 1996, Oral point 3 Broadcast use of the oral history collections continued to grow during 2008. Five editions of BBC Radio 4’s Archive Hour

2008 drew on British Library oral history recordings. City Lives

London interviews featured in a March

Arts, broadcast, Britain’s Business of Problem, narrated by Robert Peston; and recordings from

Academy Lives in the Oil Industry were included in a programme Niamh Dillon and Susie Cole at the Tesco ‘market stall’. Royal marking the twentieth Tesco: An Oral History concluded with a ‘market stall’ at the anniversary of the Piper Alpha North Sea oil rig disaster. Later Tesco company conference at London’s ExCel exhibition centre in this Review BBC producer Monise Durrani reveals how the to promote the CD publication, The Tesco Story: From Barrow programme team used the archive interviews for Piper Alpha’s to Beijing. Over 2000 copies were given out on the day and Legacy. NLS’s Oral History of the Post Office was also used in a many more have been circulated within the company. We series of five radio programmes aired over the summer – The hope to make the full digitised recordings publicly available Last Post – about the effects of changes in the post office over the next year. network on local communities.

Dissemination As part of a continuing programme of retrospective digitisation of the collections, sixty­six interviews with Jewish migrants, refugees A documentary by Sue and survivors of the Holocaust from our Living Memory of the Giovanni and Jules Hussey, Jewish Community collection were made available in their Margaret Mellis: A Life in entirety on the web for the first time to mark Holocaust Memorial Colour (also issued on DVD) Day. They join several hundred interviews already available to the made extensive use of Mel further and higher education community through the Archival Gooding’s 1993/4 Artists’ Sound Recordings project (http://sounds.bl.uk/), including most

Lives interview with the of the Artists’ Lives collection, Architects’ Lives interviews, and Scottish artist, and some science interviews. The growing presence of our interviews 2008 accompanied a retrospective online, some of them searchable through Google, is beginning to of her work at the Sainsbury raise some interesting ethical issues for us, not least reactions from

productions Centre for Visual Arts in interviewees’ family members, as Mary Stewart investigates

half Norwich. Mellis suffered elsewhere in this Review. a from Alzheimer’s disease and and the film­makers were Forty not able to work directly People with her, highlighting the importance of her contribution to Artists’ Lives. The audio interview poignantly reconstructs Over the summer I was lucky enough to be awarded a her life, supported by readings, images and archive footage. research break to investigate business and corporate oral Another Artists’ Lives interview featured in Andrew Lambirth’s history. During my absence Mary Stewart ably stepped into book, Nigel Hall: Sculpture and Works on Paper (Royal my post. She was assisted by Elspeth Millar, who has since Academy of Arts). Biographer Georgina Ferry drew heavily left to take an MA in Archives and Records Management at on Katherine Thompson’s twelve­hour interview with Nobel University College London; and Susie Cole, who succeeded Prize­winning molecular biologist Max Perutz for her book Elspeth as our Archive Assistant. Hester Westley emigrated Max Perutz and the Secret of Life (Chatto and Windus). The to the US but continued to interview for us. Crafts Lives British Library published the long­awaited The British Book interviewer Hawksmoor Hughes departed to have a second Trade: An Oral History, edited by Sue Bradley and based on baby, Roisin, and hopes to return to the team later in 2009. over 80 interviews from the Book Trade Lives project. This is We welcome Alison Gilmour (An Oral History of the Water a great achievement, which one reviewer has described as Industry) and Katharine Haydon (An Oral History of Barings). ‘required reading’.

4 Oral history at the British Library: what else has been happening?

National Life Stories represents an important part of the contributed edited recordings to both the British Library’s British Library’s oral history fieldwork activities but there Taking and The Sound and the Fury exhibitions; are many other things happening in the oral history section. and researched and wrote 47 new subject pages for the British Library’s new­look website, taking a Library­wide lead.

Sarah Griffiths joined us on placement from London Metropolitan University as part of an MA in Information

Services Management, working on a deposited collection of

Library interviews with craftspeople, and we have accepted several other donations including some seafarers’ interviews, British recordings with the pupils of potter Bernard Leach, two separate collections of broadcast interviews with members of the Communist Party of Great Britain and with the Chinese McGlashon, community, and an Open University programme of interviews Chris Training session for Hearing Concern Link. with overseas­trained South Asian geriatricians. A previously­ deposited collection of accent and dialect recordings – Voices Oral history staff deal with around 40% of all the public of the UK – will be the subject of a new web resource, thanks enquiries that come into the Sound Archive: some 4100 of to a Leverhulme grant. This is one of several collaborative 9400 in 2008. We welcomed visitors from all over the UK projects with the British Library’s Social Sciences team. and overseas, continuing to act as the national centre for oral history in Britain, through fact sheets and expert guidance. In terms of fieldwork, interviews with Paul Graham, Morris We also gave 42 talks, presentations and training sessions on Newcombe and Sandra Lousada were added to the Oral a wide range of topics, including two 2­day training sessions History of British Photography collection; and Louise Brodie for a new Heritage Lottery Funded project Unheard Voices: continued to augment Down to Earth: An Oral History of Interviews with Deafened People, led by national charity British Horticulture, making recordings with orchid expert Hearing Concern Link. The resulting interviews will be Henry Oakeley, gardening writer and journalist Anna Pavord deposited with the British Library and involve the innovative and Gilly Drummond, English Heritage Commissioner and use of speech­to­text technology. We hosted an ambitious President of the Association of Gardens Trusts. An interview event organised by the Migrant and Refugee Communities with Roger Black, Olympic 400 metre silver medallist, joined Forum focusing on the HLF­funded Moroccan Memories forty­eight other interviews in the Oral History of British in Britain oral history project (also archived with us); and Athletics collection. In 2009 the Oral History Society (and co­organised a major day conference about oral history in Journal) celebrates its 40th anniversary: a small number – First Person: New Approaches to Oral History of recordings with the key surviving pioneers have been – in conjunction with the Museums Association in the British commissioned to mark the movement’s achievements. Library Conference Centre, attended by 134 people. We

Library

British

Hunter, Elizabeth Moroccan Memories in Britain exhibition launch, December 2008. 5 Authors’ Lives: In Their Own Words

Sarah O’Reilly, Project Interviewer, National Life Stories

Though they lived well into the era of recorded sound and Aside from his description of the hit­and­miss nature of the radio, it is unlikely that we will ever hear the voices of Thomas spoken word, Michael Holroyd alludes to another facet of Hardy, A E Housman, D H Lawrence or , for authorship today which may inhibit the author’s ability to talk attempts to find recordings of these four lost voices of English freely. It is the drum­beating, trumpet­playing promotional have always ended in failure. activities that surround the publication of a book, and push the writer to the fore. Future generations, it could be argued, won’t be faced with the same problem: today broadcast archives are full to bursting with The rapid growth of the literary festival and the explosion authors’ voices. But in fact it is the very presence of such short, in the popularity of the literary biography indicate that we publicity­led recordings that masks a serious problem. As a are living in what Coleridge called an ‘Age of Personality’. nation, we have remarkably few recorded in­depth interviews According to William Hazlitt, writing in the early nineteenth with writers reflecting on their lives as a whole; we lack a century, the poet Thomas Gray was so terrified ‘at the bare idea comprehensive collection of biographical interviews with even of having his portrait prefixed to his works’ that he ‘probably our better­known fiction writers, let alone those many technical died from nervous agitation at the publicity into which his name and specialist writers, campaigners and literary journalists who had been forced by his learning, taste, and genius’. Today are not household names. writers cannot afford the luxury of nervous agitation. The buzzword amongst publishers over the last few years has been Interviews for Authors’ Lives began in October 2007, with a the author ‘brand’, that nebulous concept that compels an focus on literary novelists, poets and biographers. Our aims author to make him or herself available at every opportunity are two­fold: to create a publicly­accessible archive of in­depth for public readings, literary festivals, radio shows and television life story recordings with British writers, and, in doing so, appearances (should he/she be so lucky). Thomas Gray may address some of the key shifts in authorship over the last half have been terrified, but he had seen the future. century. The project itself is also a well­timed complement to the recently completed oral history of Book Trade Lives. And of course it is the very public nature of twenty­first century authorship that may encourage a certain weariness Although a small number of those interviewed for this project in the ever­patient writer when another interviewer appears have published their autobiographies, and a far greater number on the horizon waving a recording device. As public figures, have been the subject of newspaper profiles or radio broadcasts, authors know that the details of their private lives are of the Authors’ Lives interview will probably be the first time that interest to journalists and readers. Many quite understandably the writer has been asked to sit down and narrate, at length, question why the public’s interest is directed towards their the story of his or her life. How do they react to the challenge? person rather than their books. Others may be reticent when discussing their private lives. After all biography, as Oscar Nabokov wrote about the relationship of thinking, writing, and Wilde remarked, ‘lends to death a new terror.’ speaking, thus: ‘I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child.’ His statement is instructive in Then there is the thorny problem of the relationship between what it reveals about the difficulty of transforming thoughts the life and the work. Writers work in an area in which self­ into speech. Will authors, whose habitat is the written word, expression is key, and yet historical perspectives on the feel this difficulty more than most? relationship between an author’s life and work imply that ne’er the twain shall meet: Roland Barthes, who killed off the Author Here is Michael Holroyd, interviewed in 2007/08, describing in the 1960s, argued that aspects of the writer’s biography, his the differences between writing and speaking: or her personal attributes, had no relevance to the meanings that could be distilled from the work, so that ‘to give a text an “I much prefer to write because I can think what I’m really Author is to impose a limit on that text’. Today the publisher’s going to say. I can cross out some sentences, reform them, disclaimer continues this tradition of separating creator from perhaps contradict them and get something about which I creation, arguing that ‘all characters appearing in this work think ‘that’s got something of it’, whereas when I speak like are fictitious. Any resemblance to a real person, living or dead, this it’s hit or miss. To really express what I feel needs time is purely coincidental’ [my emphasis]. It says, in effect, that and thought in order to get it exact in all its contradictions, and there is no continuity between the world that the author layers of light and shade… I’m a written word person rather inhabits and the world he or she creates in books. than a spoken word person. If I have to go to literary festivals and speak I think, ‘What on earth am I doing playing a trumpet Yet authors themselves have contradicted this view on record. and beating a drum when there’s my book [to do it for me]?’... Patrick White referred to childhood as ‘the purest well from I don’t really enjoy just speaking. I think I parody myself.” which the creative artist draws’ whilst Authors’ Lives

6 Fay Godwin Archive, British Library Fay Godwin Archive, British Library Philip interviewee Anthony may To take they in Philip Lives of putting Here writing too thing of and write potency will a the discover it letter be part Pullman. have is soon... happen...“ encourage Pullman the and very a Thwaite. coheres interviewee their of a memoir, in more coded for dated a declined the thing why Nina Authors’ poem: experiences but me highlights noise. and I writers 14th autobiography.’ that individuals occasionally talk would Bawden but to Anthony the But about they Lives I January, do shall to words be an into it’s so, speak has draw lost… important has it take have extremely words Thwaite, even something the written “I “I’m come 2008: been is in usually attached ‘What leave down it’s it’s attach easily distracted down about when stop (although important the about compounded biographies)... I and words a deadness on about care do fear accepted sort When a less my more. a not in may afraid things great almost find me together, process fascinating; issue: their it that to foul it head of likely fairly too that the exposing would talking is themselves their difficult a that and comes destroy make the from that?’ happens fixed the conscious comes Here mystery so I’m or I value quickly, to to up, that writing? ‘A the how admit inexpressible, with own soon it some see time that arrival by which me put force by writer’s appears reading rather about either and most This the is to have invitation I to my if the getting and of can may lives, a a Philip are or them all to comes literature it and sort other talk to too to sound few wariness public biography them process; is of you own potency doesn’t I see of their Authors’ the I private sceptical been by me. it, may write work think when that the early, about, a of it Pullman words into but it being why bits can poem I up...” life: into to noise It and shall just it it is Anthony about it’s articulation. shed Over the have “The from difference fiction “I Even given biography, of very Holroyd similarly Here about next is a Suddenly orientated my control; who the Writing has this going is solved ordered choose well­known people dealing open hiding, the began human so much mercy form few character light we earlier that more her surfaced. is very the form myself difficult write the the can in to a and the again, like have acting, our with years Thwaite interview) the a very writing a I past more world, ability in on dangers life be experience thing of between around all offer think interesting is novel completely about it books work which He peace yourself a genre, question their rewarded often creativity, characters, biography and and an murder, to controlled eighteen a we series reflecting Here self­revealing, begs that to impersonating...” to wish that a example talk biography seemed appears reveals where mind for hope genre: chosen of safer it’s you and provide a quite she writing I these is of reader, trying the that at need think about for those is delivered of you’re Victoria different are and and order exercises P to of describes months, all, world. tends the where and on order the form nostalgic. something question: D of a to forms. it recordings find the taken some is the evil its who because to biographies more James’s has his out directly? impetus and the support choice in back restored... very even to author articulate relationship of many and to Glendinning genre the Despite choice the punished... led interplay of way. read in writer, some kind Here end into writing. the dangerous us. strong in life diffidence order how reason, end If him belief if of of you’re to hope more this Philip Here sadly... solace you’re that In chooses it… you’re of a of and (in genre answers the write the You of a different into: and a biography can solace English between form, to in terrible that an I process I conceives to is to answers. the the Pullman’s author so a don’t think fact laying confront me... know speaking that biographer writing reading comes these so edited thing not capture. reveals pattern, “When experience, and [detective authors us.” genre: work and – in to that village there detective writing world, both crime think and which through a cowardice. life yourself that this interviews to you’re from the extract way intersect novels: the something you comments some death”. you Over a and do... about are of for was problem virtue we will need areas with Michael work; a fiction] resists I which about course when are write those work; at have more the the It of be in the the is for is 7 An Oral History of the Courtaulds at Palace

Catherine Croft, Project Interviewer and Director of the Twentieth Century Society

for leading figures including Conservative politician Rab Butler. By the beginning of 1945 they had had enough and packed up, initially for the Scottish Highlands, and when this proved too cold and damp for Virginia, to Southern Rhodesia (now ), where Stephen died in 1967. Ginie moved to in 1970 where she died in 1972.

English Heritage took over from the Royal Army Educational Corps in 1995 and carried out an exemplary Collection physical restoration – led by their enthusiastic and charismatic

Cozens curator Treve Rosoman. At the opening in 1999 and in the

the months that followed, many people who had known Eltham of in its heyday came back to have a look, and the team at the house collected their names and addresses and stayed in courtesy touch, sometimes exchanging Christmas cards. Some of these

Photo were party guests, the pretty and witty young people that Caesar, the Courtaulds’ Great Dane, sitting on an Italian Doge’s chair in the Virginia and Stephen had collected around them, some were Great Hall at Eltham, 1940. the children of staff and servants, and some were the family When I was first asked to go to Eltham Palace to work on members that Rosoman had contacted when sourcing this project, the south east London suburb of Eltham was information about the original furniture and fittings. This notorious as the place where the racist murder of black group was aging fast, and although Treve himself was able teenager Stephen Lawrence took place at an otherwise to recount many fascinating anecdotes he had gleaned from undistinguished bus stop in 1993. This tragic story epitomises the group, it was felt that an oral history project should be the extent to which the area has changed since the era which commenced as soon as possible to ensure a full and accurate I was setting out to investigate – the Eltham of the 1930s – record as soon as possible. and the distance between Stephen Lawrence’s life and surroundings and those of another very different Stephen.

The 1930s story is fabulous: in 1936 textile magnate and film financier Stephen Courtauld and his glamorous wife Virginia (‘Ginie’ was a divorced marchesa by her previous marriage to

an Italian aristocrat), built their luxurious Art Deco showpiece Collection home as a setting for fashioinable house parties, and to help them to cultivate friendships with influential, fun and famous Cozens

the

people. They used a young pair of architects, Seely and Paget, of to graft an unusually modern set of rooms (complete with lots

of bathrooms and a central vacuum cleaning system) onto the courtesy remains of a medieval royal palace which was originally Henry Photo VIII’s boyhood home. John Seely was the son of the 1st Lord Family group, 1940 (L –R): Photographer Iliffe Cozens, Stephen Courtauld, Mollie Mottistone and later inherited the title. It was the firm’s first Courtauld (later Lady Butler) and her first husband August Courtauld, Ginie Courtauld and George Courtauld. Iliffe and August were both members of the British Arctic Air­ major project and an inspired bit of patronage. Route Expedition, 1930 –1931.

Some of the interiors were fitted out by Peter Malacrida (for The brief was then to try and gather as wide a range of the firm White Allom), who was later dropped by fashionable experiences and angles on life at Eltham as possible. Treve was patrons when his fascist sympathies became unpalatable. For especially keen that I find out about the cars (not a subject I three brief years until the outbreak of war, an initiation to naturally warmed to) and (much more appealing to me) the Eltham Palace must have been the most coveted weekend behaviour and character of the notorious lemur and a group option for this specific social set that enjoyed motoring down of three dogs which appeared to have wreaked havoc not just in fast cars to sip cocktails, swim in the pool, play tennis, gaze with the guests but across the whole of Eltham. Caesar the out over the gardens and try and avoid being nipped by Great Dane was famous for stealing sausages from the butcher’s Virginia’s pet ring­tailed lemur Mah­Jongg. They hung on shop during war­time rationing. With a personal background as for a while during the war, trying to keep up the morale of an architectural historian, and having previously worked on the themselves and their friends and providing a safe bolt hole Architects’ Lives series, I assumed initially I would be amassing

8

Heritage

English

of

courtesy Photo

Ginie’s pet lemur, Mah­Jongg, in his own deckchair on board the Virginia in 1935.

information about the Palace itself – extra details about the In 2008, unaware of the progress of the project, English décor, the way the rooms were used and how people Heritage revamped the Eltham audio tour (it now features perceived the building. Although some of this emerged, it the actor David Suchet) without making use of the recordings. became clear that this was not going to be the most valuable Happily, we have now edited some short excerpts from the part of the project. Of course, I got extra facts about where recordings for tour guides and hope that extracts from the pre­dinner drinks were served, accounts of parties that testimony can be used in the house and other publications mentioned the general ambience, but most people in the future. remembered most vividly the people they had met, and the recordings became more about inhabiting the building once again, and understanding the complex characters of Stephen and Virginia and the details of their relationship.

The participants were extraordinarily generous with their time and, because these were more specific recordings than full life stories, they could focus closely on a very narrow part of their life’s experience, and one that was not necessarily central to their own stories. One of the most moving and important conclusions of the exercise for me was that although it became clear that by today’s standards Stephen and Virginia could be seen as judgmental and even manipulative they had an enormously positive impact on the lives of a huge number of people. They were clearly both extremely good company in very different ways to so many people.

As a by product I extended some of the recordings to talk about other parts of the participants’ lives, and especially valued hearing about Joan Spence’s experiences as a land girl, and Lady Butler’s tales of her affair with Rab Butler,

before their marriage – and her accounts of Eskimo women 1999 washing their hair with human urine. Sadly Lady Butler died

in February 2009, and as far as I can ascertain this is one Heritage of the most extensive recordings to have been preserved. English 9 The Legacy of the English Stage Company

Harriet Devine, Project Interviewer, National Life Stories

It is just over fifty years since my father, the actor and theatre Archive Project and NLS’s Oral History of Theatre Design director George Devine, founded the English Stage Company with interviews conducted by Elizabeth Wright. NLS was at the Royal Court Theatre in London. Its aim was to become keen to build on these foundations and, with funding from the a ‘vital modern theatre of experiment’, one that would produce John Hodgson Theatre Research Trust, in spring 2008 I began a a new style of drama, ‘hard­hitting, uncompromising… series of life story recordings with directors whose early careers stimulating, provocative and exciting’. When John Osborne’s had been marked by their work at the Royal Court Theatre. Look Back in Anger opened in the first season, to be greeted by a mixture of disgust, bewilderment and excitement, it was My previous interviewing experience had been focused clear that the company had begun to achieve its ambitions, recordings no longer than two hours in duration, for a book, and, more than fifty years later, the English Stage Company Looking Back: Playwrights at the Royal Court, 1956 –2006. still produces plays that are vital, contemporary and challenging. NLS’s recordings, I discovered, are quite different, covering the Its influence has been far­reaching and it has changed the face entire lifespan of the interviewee, and can last anything from of theatre in Britain and throughout the world. ten to twenty or more hours. It has been fascinating to delve into the childhoods of these people, to hear about their family The British Library Sound Archive not only holds a recording backgrounds, their education and their paths into working in of Devine (in conversation with Irving Wardle, who kindly theatre, the highs and lows of their careers and the donated the material) but also, since the early 1970s, has experiences of their later lives. made audio recordings of most productions staged at the Royal Court. Related material includes life stories with two Among those recorded have been the writer and director key designers working at the Court in the 1950s – Margaret Ann Jellicoe, the first woman to direct a play (her own) on (‘Percy’) Harris of Motley and Jocelyn Herbert – the body the main stage of the Royal Court in 1959; just as important of recordings made by the University of Sheffield Theatre to document was her account of setting up the Colway Theatre Trust in Dorset to Rachel Roberts and Frank Finlay in William Gaskill’s production of John Arden’s The Happy Haven, Royal Court Theatre, 1960. perform community plays. William Gaskill, who was one Mayne of the people who took over Mayne

Roger the running of the Royal of Roger Court after George Devine’s of death in 1966, has also been courtesy o o urtesy interviewed, as has Max c

Phot Stafford­Clark, who ran the

Photo theatre from 1979 to 1993 and now has his own innovative company, Out of Joint. A recording is underway with Anthony Page, who began his career at the Royal Court and was for a period joint Artistic Director; his recent theatre productions include Ibsen’s Rosmersholm and he is known to television audiences through his direction of ’s for the BBC. I am also in the process of interviewing the film director Stephen Frears, who started as an assistant director at the Royal Court in the 1960s, and has gone on to direct award­ winning movies such as Dangerous Liaisons

Mayne

Roger

of

courtesy Photo

Mask class for John Arden's play, The Happy Haven, directed by William Gaskill, who appears on the extreme right of the photo.

and The Queen. Everyone’s memories of working for the English Stage Company have been full of fascinating and invaluable insights into the running of that ground­breaking company, and it has been rewarding to explore the degree to which the ESC’s founding values remain active in subsequent generations.

There have been wonderful and unexpected glimpses of other worlds, such as David Gothard’s memories of appearing, when an East Anglian schoolboy, in a production of ’s 1958 opera Noyes Fludde, or ’s vivid account of growing up in a working­class Catholic enclave of post­war Mayne Cardiff. From Michael Geliot, who went on to found and run

the Welsh National Opera, I have learned about handling Roger of temperamental singers and conductors as a very junior director at Glyndebourne Opera House, and I much enjoyed Max courtesy Stafford­Clark’s account of coaxing a play scene by scene out

of the hugely talented young writer, the late Andrea Dunbar, Photo Wendy Craig in Ann Jellicoe's play, The Sport whose chaotic life on a northern council estate frequently of My Mad Mother, co­directed by Ann Jellicoe threatened to overwhelm her ability to write about it. From and George Devine, Royal Court Theatre, 1958. Donald Howarth’s recording I learned about life in South Africa under apartheid in the 1970s.

11 An Interviewer’s Perspective

Words Made Fresh: Voices in the Archive Hester Westley, Project Interviewer, National Life Stories

My association with and appreciation for NLS began with my interview was with the ­based British artist Stephen research at the Courtauld Institute of Art, where I completed Gilbert. As his importance as an artist has yet to be a Ph.D. thesis that integrated techniques of oral history to comprehensively documented, the nonagenarian Gilbert’s discuss the institutional history of St. Martin’s sculpture testimony plays a two­fold role: at once, it reminds us of department in the 1960s. As a young art historian eager the essential contribution to future scholarship that Artists’ for unexplored material, the Artists’ Lives archive was an Lives provides as it captures for posterity the voices of artists undiscovered country. Unlike the often poorly recorded and awaiting their proper recognition. With Gilbert’s death in agenda­driven Q­and­As that characterised my early academic 2007, his testimony stands as much more than an untapped forays, the NLS testimonies were revelatory: expansive in resource; it is the haunting voice of a sensibility shaped by detail and subtle in nuance, they offered the stories behind two world wars and touched by some of the most influential the accepted historical narrative. Almost literally, the archive modern movements of the twentieth century. became a living body of evidence, elusive and supple, clearly unwilling to conform to orthodox understandings of artistic From Cathy Courtney – who listened attentively and events or the players who feature in them. meticulously to both interviewer and interviewee – I learned how to tease out memories, when and how to respond to Not until I was given the opportunity to join the NLS team potentially charged topics, and, significantly, how to understand as project interviewer was I in a position to consider fully the a single person’s monumental task of making sense of his or issues underpinning life story recordings. My first, tentative, her own life.

Robin Klassnik on the steps of the original Matt’s Gallery in Martello Street. When treating artists whose personal histories depend on their own self­valorisation, these issues are particularly germane. Egos and reputations are always part of the game, Westley but artistic legacies increase the stakes considerably. One of

Hester my greatest delights in the garnering of NLS testimonies was unraveling the multiplicity of perspectives towards a particular event. Recently, I was fortunate to interview a cross­section of art world personalities from the same generation, so narrative connections and contradictions abounded – and often colourfully so.

In the same way that the Artists’ Lives project has ensured that artists can now speak for themselves, so too has the Art Professionals project given voice to some of the major figures who have done much to define the terms of the late twentieth­ century art market. This autonomous project has been made possible by the generous funding of the Gulbenkian Foundation; under the umbrella of Artists’ Lives, the Art Professionals recordings have opened up a new terrain of historical exploration.

Rather than urging artists such as Richard Wentworth, Howard Hodgkin and Derek Boshier (among others) to ‘reveal’ their art practices, my objective with Art Professionals had a different focus. My efforts were directed to an understanding of the mechanics of Britain’s multifarious art industry. These recordings are infused with a different urgency, since they capture the potentially paradigm­shifting moment when the contemporary art world reverberated from 2008’s global economic downturn.

The interviews range widely. On one hand, I recorded the deliberations of Anthony d’Offay, Britain’s high profile gallerist turned philanthropist. This sweeping conversation recounts d’Offay’s trajectory from his childhood to the impetus behind his multi­million pound bequest of contemporary art to the nation. On the other hand, I heard the reflections of Robin 12

Lemoine Serge

Stephen Gilbert in his Paris studio, 2002.

Klassnik, the inspired director of Matt’s Gallery in a recording that untangles the triumphs achieved by and obstacles facing this unique not­for­profit public gallery. Other recent interviews have included the candid recollections of Nicholas Logsdail, director of the internationally renowned Lisson Gallery, as well as the perspectives of art critic, Guy Brett, whose voice reveals a very different set of imperatives in the pioneering work of artists who refute the mainstream. In all, these recordings offer collectively a wealth of new and vital material that enhances our understanding of the trajectory and tensions of the British art scene from the 1960s to the present day.

From listening to the archive’s materials, I have learned that in these recordings, as in conversation, a single inflection of voice can shift entirely the meaning of a statement. From my experience as an interviewer I have learned that oral history renders history not from the historian’s perspective but from the subjects themselves; for that reason, we are no longer talking about flattened historical perspective but one that is endlessly renewing; instead, we have words made fresh.

Westley Hester Guy Brett in the British Library foyer.

13 Interviewees, their families and the archive Mary Stewart, NLS Administrator

Since I joined National Life Stories in 2006, part of my role has Second, Martin reflected on both his father’s unpublished been to act as the first port of call for numerous enquiries from memoir and the oral history recording: interviewees past and present, and also from their families. In most cases, a family member contacts us after a relative’s death. “I was wondering if you thought the recording brought Sometimes they have discovered the tapes or transcript in their anything different to your perception of Charles’ life, late relative’s possession and wish to know more, but frequently rather than the written memoir? it is to seek a copy of an interview which they have not heard before. I have become increasingly intrigued about what these Yes, well you get the tone of voice, the inflection – if you family members think about the recordings that arrive neatly know somebody well – you pick up on what you know they packaged on their doorsteps because although almost every don’t want to deal with. And that gives you some good interviewee will have a family who might listen to their clues, really.” recording, we receive very little feedback from this large potential audience. Occasionally we receive letters or phone As a son listening to his father’s recordings, Martin was able calls in which a family member explains their reaction to the life to detect layers of meaning that would not be apparent from story recording, such as this from the widow of an interviewee: reading a transcript, but also which an outside listener might never detect. In our interview he illuminated many of the “I read the resume and as that caused me no problems I intersections and disconnections between the life stories couldn’t resist trying a tape. Whilst actually listening I felt recorded by an oral historian and the stories passed down happy and at home and even heard myself saying to him between family members. Charles revealed in the recording ‘oh don’t waffle so.’ But oh dear afterwards. Questions the emotional impact of the pivotal moment in his childhood and comments and no­one, no­one to answer to them.” when his own father went bankrupt. Reflecting on the new information he had heard in the interview and the effect the Letters like this made me reflect more deeply about what interview experience had upon his father, Martin remarked: familes think about the recordings they hear. How did they react to hearing their relative’s voice? Did they hear the content they “I think [interviewer] Sue Bradley’s persistence in coming back expected, and – possibly – did they hear things that they wished to wanting to understand what he wasn’t revealing about the they hadn’t? How should we as an archive consider the family family did have an impact because after the last interview she as an audience for the oral histories we collect? did with him he said to me – by then he was living in Sussex by the hospital after being diagnosed with the brain tumour – On a number of occasions a relative has expressed he said to me ‘I want to talk to you about my childhood.’ apprehension at listening to their family member’s voice, but, And then he broke down and he said ‘it was so painful and in absolute contrast, I have also had requests for recordings I’ve never been able to talk about it and I want you to know precisely so that a relation can again hear their late relative how terrible it was’.” speak. Martin Pick, son of late Book Trade Lives interviewee Charles Pick, had listened to the life story interview to prepare This example shows what the recording process can reveal for his father’s memorial service and in an interview I recorded and hide from both the external listener and family members. with him many interesting points emerged. First, Martin It also demonstrates the impact that recording a life story with explained how his father’s failing health is apparent: an outsider can have on an interviewee and how family information can be transmitted, long after the recorder has “How do you know something had changed [in Charles’ been switched off. There is no way of knowing whether health], just by listening? Charles would have discussed his childhood with Martin had the recording not taken place, but Martin certainly links the You can tell on the tape that he is having to make a big effort, two directly. He sums up the experience of listening: increasingly. And you can tell from the point of view that it is more difficult for him to concentrate for longer periods on a “…I think it is useful for me not just in learning how to use and topic. He diverges a lot of the time from what he’s originally access primary source material, but also in providing another been asked about, something we all tend to do. I think it was perception of my father in various different contexts… I’ve more evident. And I think there is an increasing sense of frailty been going through a process of empathetic understanding that comes across to me. His voice is just weaker, softer and – with someone I never fully understood when he was alive. in a way – it’s rather attractive as a tone. It’s the sort of voice Although I think that you never really fully understand anyone, that would lead the person interviewing him to ask more I think I have gained in depth of understanding through what searching questions.” has come out of these recordings.”

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Life Stories on the Radio Monise Durrani, Producer, BBC Radio with Mary Stewart, NLS Administrator

On 6 July 1988 a massive How useful did you find the content summaries? explosion on the Piper Alpha Very. I suppose what they don’t tell you is how fluently someone North Sea oil rig killed 167 talks, but they were incredibly useful because it’s such a large people. It was the worst collection you do need that level of detail to be able to make offshore oil accident in the sense of it. history of the industry. Monise Durrani, a producer for BBC And with the mentions of Piper Alpha within the content Radio Scotland, used extensive summaries, how did you make a judgement about what interview extracts from NLS’s material might be appropriate for your programme? Lives in the Oil Industry I guess the thread of the programme was thinking about Monise Durrani. collection for a BBC Archive recollections of the disaster itself, but then how the kind of Hour programme – ‘Piper Alpha’s Legacy’ – broadcast in July the horror had left a cloud over the oil industry, but also the 2008 to commemorate the twentieth anniversary of the disaster. impact it had had in terms of safety regimes and legislation. So In this interview with Mary Stewart, Monise discusses how she there was quite a clear storyline I wanted to follow. So it was went about making the programme. looking for the elements of the collection which had content relevant to that. There were a few mentions of Piper Alpha here Mary: Had you heard of Piper Alpha before? and there, but there were some tapes where it was pretty much Monise: I grew up in Scotland and it was such a big thing. I was all Piper Alpha and they were quite easy to pick out. The other in primary school when it happened but I do remember the news thing that was important about Lives in the Oil Industry is that stories and, as everyone I spoke to for the programme did, those it had representations from different elements of the oil industry images are just the sort of thing that’s kind of burned in the as well, because very often with a disaster you can go through memory of anyone who was in Scotland at the time. an archive and you hear a lot from the victims, but because the Lives in the Oil Industry collection was not specifically about How did the [programme] planning process take place? Piper Alpha, what it also had was people from all elements of It was along two lines – well three if you like. We had the British the oil industry. It wasn’t just the guys who worked out on the Library Archive to think about and then also the huge wealth of rigs. You had people like the PR woman for the oil company, BBC Archive, particularly BBC Scotland Archive, and I think that the trade union leaders. So it was a very wide range of voices was one of the key reasons that we, rather than any other bit of that I was able to draw on. the BBC, ended up making those programmes, because BBC Scotland has of course done so much about the oil industry over What was the process after you’d selected material from the the last twenty years and since the North Sea oil industry began. content summaries? What happened next? Then with a programme like this there are always new interviews The process was that we put in our request and then you were to record as well. So it was searching through the indexes of the very keen to go and make sure that the tapes I’d requested, Lives in the Oil Industry collection, looking through what BBC the people whose recordings they were, were happy for me Scotland had and then thinking about who we could talk to for to have them. So from my point of view it was a case of the programme, both in terms of memories of people involved anxiously watching the emails and keeping everything crossed at the time and people who could give an overview of how for a little while. Piper Alpha had affected the oil industry since. How does that experience of needing to get interviewee Just thinking about the Lives in the Oil Industry collection, how perspective compare to the other programmes you’ve made? did you decide which interviews you might want to listen to? I suppose that on the whole I work on fairly straightforward I printed off the tape summaries and they completely filled a documentaries where you’re talking directly to the folder – such a density of information. I think it was around May interviewees anyway, so the fact that they’re happy to have so it was quite a nice time of year, so I actually took the folder you hold a microphone under their nose, you know, they’re and I sat out in the park in front of the with happy to take part in the programme. And the previous a highlighter pen and I looked for mentions of Piper Alpha and archive collections I worked on, although they were both highlighted them. I narrowed it down from there thinking about anniversary programmes, they were mainly using BBC Archive what was the most relevant and what would complement what which is ours to use mostly unrestricted, so there wasn’t that the BBC Archive I’d looked at had and the people I was planning kind of need to contact people. I would always contact to talk to. I looked at the access restrictions, you know, there was someone if I was re­broadcasting something just to let them no point in asking for a tape that I wasn’t going to get. know that they might be hearing their voice again. I mean I suppose the only thing that I felt, and I absolutely understand why you did it, and it had an impact on my actions later as

18 Photo courtesy of Mirrorpix How it’s to in very They’re Oil not interviewer. true of even Everyone to Daily to it was because them had programme Alpha. people Ballantyne her And listened did with Sort was the be them let check an Industry it already forget wanted quite of of those Mirror polished any did twenty more feel them felt oral oil sort So the strange. whose very to that she that the industry of was too to interested there 8 history, but interviewees of who people but direct know anyway In July them differ? went to different herself be interviews years doors clip, reasonably they disappointed some very it’s clips check I 1988. talking became was I hadn’t and mean whereas when have apart also is out, I were on, keen were has I’d interviewed much cases because a to things. she so lot important but I to used, hear moved I from from that become used. the happy an what made that didn’t brief, closing of was it’s them more the there incredible and programmes you her BBC An she a the Pat but the you happy Lives ten, good an on. with have having detailed interview as opinions. that and something was did BBC was to Ballantyne Archive anniversary the effort might well, fifteen acknowledge in the make thing extensive I with also was the people spokesperson Archive think the listened and idea that to get were widow of for a why, With because using Oil minute contact talk sense of that and Bob less is it’s a of whose should and Industry a an programme happening. contact that material to before well, who people there and their were that quite And something.’ want ‘oh when affect three much you I everyone to my that, campaigner, important dictated I’d was as of didn’t that edited from their conversations Lives with, not you the well the using contacted after that forget none the then clips be sort recordings was getting probably a to were letters and they those people , things the just really get then a voices? big late because BBC use marked, in how hear and I BBC clip can by lot Piper of else I’d it that hope when also of the to tends how the hear, deal, and the Bob the felt or can I I be a true Certainly material have I time between new the information to used, records which that Definitely. My up tend make Archive the voices but in And particular it’s something been a pegs I I its it you Was purpose they’re necessarily resource recording career. person might relevant To and guess was was twenty­eight is using sustain collections be somewhat being archive, tale. just are final know, a for emerge how commissioned and it to for the solicited pleased you interested a honest half. have have alongside So what interviewed it completely also that be programme Hour different the to as is And oral that that question all overview was then in very programme did lives a it know, Because different. better that do. sort But what the had the three narrative happened was that there both three you are you history kind I then is which so you with just for tangential good do and didn’t guide I minute of covering we way four there was in it the I you wouldn’t I it from expected programmes a BBC I’ve entirely guess to a of their feel was of is is the would different from it. it’s this not don’t particular was matter interviews. programmes. using have presenter important that bring material whether those backbone, tapes quite wouldn’t request and that An done, is because a the about archive to and after, documentary just background, particular asked about. very great people to areas Archive I’ve necessarily them been so new have takes a necessarily material you surprised when of sources? of British significant what ways few is so if the much any purpose. made again? someone in choosing resource is that voice a which you because interviews, get it’s up­to­date to rather been made, with who you How if little there the news final Hour I you bits Archive of make that people Library/Aberdeen, was elsewhere, manage I I’ve a Archive who through to would future collecting have how a and remember possible bit the life did get that listened than events programme? to I clips lot So makes is and see perhaps tended it’s what suppose and sure about story, illustrate much media I you is in talking of they you’re in Hour, but weren’t and think a that answers you’d to normally as taking to broadcasting, Hours I’d the our long that the or told to sense. get but kind that’s I to audio do got which their they’re to only harder said, every looking what themes, doesn’t go with oral as because own going story. about the the be time a the use that and in you and directly into of a out balance that childhood, not ask But other use. interested histories the because result tapes? archive but I its happened archive story. evoke single the to work they consistent over suppose through So this to their things and for. for what have it’s it mix stories they’re provide also new get so you is cases they is end one So a which just than the an it’s of is just and you their that the 19 20 Gwyneth Gwyneth Member in 1974 Phillips her became the suffragettes. of from “Well …which be for to revolutionary not woman was I’m a of why would also it and balance not would be to. commitment be necessarily We because me want ones a would committee I particularly Gwyneth Last 1966. Royal happen different was small Labour father, have these the coloured, the And her coming who surprisingly be NLS’s always will until one helpful they we and at Dunwoody helpful. was say not most a be way able wedding She ‘c’, Mail’s of would occurred I of Dunwoody see Christmas… had professors there of life of wanted think Morgan to her Party I thought occasions An Parliament, well, know light…and colours a look loved very would Here the had the want that at to was I in think important: peer member quite great and think, like death, Oral Stamp it was Someone articulate it Words have interviewed that two between advantages she a I like conservative from you Labour anniversary draftsmanship, Dunwoody Gwyneth necessarily very the think to adventure.” you asking in wonderful that Phillips, want a rightly, and, History fun always of in said occasionally Queen’s was them! that when said. particular 1964; and see I children’s Advisory a of I much art had a mean having Christmas where that’s had the different and something negative MP her by or who 1944 the her the to it came because [laughs] by many the to recalls And served but Rorie of both see. one of the wonderful all the what wedding for longest­ever [laughs]…which London and debate I [stamp] just say their choices the is all been loved having and artist battle Committee I from ones. sorts Fulton, general of trained I Crewe for they kind don’t her their these of angle, I would to way is so­and­so, Post her as it after Well course suggested experience 1962; much not the her first them, had was grandmothers on (1930 all of a General of County So of issues and will 2002. time judgements anniversary someone perhaps, know long arguments Office. men and the things other I will a birthday all, the the public.’ I’m images respond elected mine done I mean her see more time they serving of was C1007/39 ‘well in as they sort Christmas Nantwich Labour look traditionalists seeing were were course that and mother, Council something in Secretary members the didn’t a would and that this – when responding asked I adventurous. but like member of that it that for would think or at to 2008) that going it debating 1990s, woman which choice with would medieval and their it tape were I the lineage: the would at me it, there Exeter appear would people may through people be, her Norah and was from stamps least that but 1 I some image say one of of there. to side any with and and like the I A.

Photo: Clive Sherlock Photo courtesy of the Collingwood family Photo courtesy of the Collingwood family and Peter Detail weaving. the describes motor Performing “To Peter yarn something, was down I arrived, Peter thought, hospital’s begin the Collingwood, of about Collingwood so industry, 3D and author was and As the Macrogauze, with Collingwood Arts that’s I fifteen a or just just I challenge Occupational young opened I of twenty c.1970. for Centre asked couldn’t like stupid, key centimetres was a Kiryu large­scale doctor, a reference for, the kilos, solid in a of they Performing world­renowned pick Japan using box I Therapy don’t piece I he haven’t can’t it across, and became books up a commission (1997). (1922 know, of steel Arts remember. it because Department. metal. was sent was Centre, on yarn intrigued fifty still the enough, wound Master So – each Japan. developed for kilos on techniques And 2008) they the the spool, This of by with Weaver a and had Kiryu floor, it box looms or extract this I for which sent bent of and the in Peter used unknown normally day find the curse, just if glue steel. some bit came getting easily, had weight, move the to warping due and as always a the to seemed on, would and little it overcome you the Collingwood of fibres right uprights the was a because to to were I the of it wound So off, paper lot weft in and needed floor, end follow. wear its weave for trying the sore bit which to correct too a mill I amount of in into thinking weight. and because had screw­like the eventually be I’d of before right a little glue in throats liquid of a – it that. it Macrogauze interviewed to it because It a woven little then a mask sort to normally you a was back the stickiness went bit just really fall tangle viscosity technical which experiment and For and And it I’d that of wind warping rods you quite you because downwards. wanted because would and fashion. over I was weaving never from instance strong after the wrote by there they on turn obviously I had which the each a could of Linda so just things, I the threads the sort just then weave and mill used the were to sort the it warp little soon were push with a So slowly time Sandino, table, would floor when wouldn’t I be diary of just rush was to glue that’s warp on then of And it bits which wouldn’t screws adventure super­glue in able after just with with stop in before. it sort to all so up all doing.” a of I for moved always soak metal 2003. of when I on, wound glued obey spiral the other I to had the what two their the I it of made had bend. the this began that slithering. glue and into C960/15 difficulties do Nobody’d work rest fibres to rods gravity. I hands. steel – with to things across did into job. twist happened to started they with it it alter me as So it, the put of round coughing get just that, with on I There the and fibre Unibond and you tape swear in the turned had one fibres, to related the Velcro And It the And… this slithered them, weaving, were a ever and 9 was convert the had yarn the got to loom hand side little were each super­ you shiny and and it and left, on it to off, to or A. if 21 Betty Judge (1919 – 2008)

Betty Judge’s father was a civil servant and her mother ran a draper’s shop. She attended James Allen’s Girls School in the 1930s and during the Second World War worked for the Air Ministry in the Department of Civil Aviation. She married Rupert Judge in 1942 and her son Paul was born in 1949. In this extract Betty recalls the excitement of her sister’s birthday party in the 1930s:

“For my sister’s twenty­first birthday she had a party in , at a restaurant in Piccadilly called the Pop Restaurant. It was owned by Joe Lyons, and she had her party there, which was catered for by them of course, and that was quite an event. That would be in 1938…Oh it was beautiful, with chandeliers and, it was quite, like a dream come true, you know, to have all these round tables where we sat, and dancing. And I know I had a new dress for the occasion, and also a lovely black evening coat, black velvet down to the ground, lined with pink

satin. And it cost a guinea in the shops, they used to have some shops in the West End called the ‘guinea shops’, everything in them were a guinea. And they were lovely, beautiful, you Judge know, lovely clothes, they really were nice, and this beautiful Paul of black velvet coat lined with pink satin, and I wore that that night, with a pink silk dress. I remember that… Oh I remember courtesy she had a car, a Hillman, Dad bought her a Hillman Minx for her twenty­first birthday… There was a little jazz band there, Photo Betty Judge on her 80th birthday. we had a little jazz band all in, with the package you know, and a little dance floor. And I was nineteen at the time, and we had our boyfriends there, you know, our current boyfriends. And, family, mostly family, and school friends, and it was a good party… jazz dance, foxtrots and waltzes and quicksteps, and Charleston…[and] what they called Nippys [the staff] with their black dresses and buttons all the way down the front, and little frilled caps with black lace through them... I think we had soup first of all, and then I think it was fish, or meat, and then I think it was ice­cream, fruit sundae. And coffee and macaroons.”

Betty Judge interviewed by Cathy Courtney, 2003 –4. C464/40 tape 4 side A.

22

2006

Cutler Edward

Fred Yates.

Fred Yates (1922 – 2008)

Fred Yates’ early oil paintings were often likened to a ‘happy formality and the superior quality of life that they were all, you Lowry’ due to the vibrant and bold use of colour in his know, probably pretentious artists and I didn’t want to be a depictions of intricate figures amid the changing urban pretentious artist. You know, I’d never worked in a studio. So I landscape of his native Manchester. Having spent five years in put myself down for drawing and graphic art, which I was good the Army during World War Two, Fred began teacher training at you see. So this is one of the things about life. All my life it’s at Bournemouth College of Art in 1946, but left the profession been controlled by other authorities. I’ve never had to make a in 1969 to move to Cornwall to take up painting as a full­time decision. I’d made my decision I was going to go in for graphic career. He subsequently moved to France, where Jenny art, went in to see the principal of Bournemouth College, and Simmons recorded his life story as part of the Artists’ Lives he said, ‘I have put you down for painting.’ So he made the collection. Fred’s interview provides a wonderful background decision you see. All my life it’s been controlled by other people to his working life and the influences behind his style. and how grateful I am – and so I ended up in the art room and they loved me. On his early influences: Exhibiting his work: I used to paint in the kitchen… that was a beginning for my life, you know. With no knowledge of modern artists or I’ll tell you about the gallery, John Martin. One day I went anything. I used to go to… we were pushed off to Sunday in his gallery and I got talking and I forgot what I’d gone for school so my mother and father could have a little rest on and he said, ‘Oh, wouldn’t you like to see your paintings?’ So, a Sunday, and we were only little, about seven or eight, and ‘Oh’ I said, ‘where are they?’ He’s got two big rooms you see. we always used to go to a lady called Miss Annie, Miss Annie So I looked at my paintings and the exhibition was like a gypsy Chadwick in Cheadle Hulme…and she was a very lovely old caravan, all these lonely little whimsical paintings in different lady and she did watercolours. Beautiful, traditional landscapes coloured frames, I used to paint my own frames. And then I of watercolours and she was my first introduction to painting. said, ‘Can I see the other exhibition?’ which was on at the same …And if I was a bit early she used to say ‘sit down’…and the time. I went downstairs, the other exhibition was downstairs, paintings on the walls of the house was the only art education and they were all black paintings with little scratches on them; I had until I was about sixteen…I was influenced by Miss it was very modern. I wasn’t alarmed in any way – that isn’t the Annie. Pretty little landscapes. Never figures. I never even right word – I accepted what was there, in all good faith, and thought of putting figures in, you know, because they’re I suddenly thought, how jealous I would have been if the very difficult… exhibition downstairs was like mine. And it was au contraire, it was wonderful because he sells both types of paintings and Specialising in painting whilst at college: that’s my life, I just was thrilled that on one hand they weren’t paintings like mine, naïve, and on the other hand that I could Unbelievably I looked through the door in the art room, the live happily with his and he could live happily with mine.” painting room, where all the real artists were you see, I was frightened. Isn’t it funny what frightened me, it was the Fred Yates interviewed by Jenny Simmons, 2006. C466/234 tape 1 side B, tape 3 side A. 23 Statement of Financial Activities Year Ended 31 December 2008

Statement of Financial Activities

Restricted Unrestricted Total 2008 2007 £ £ £ £

INCOMING RESOURCES

Donations 114,128 18,793 132,921 165,217 Bank interest receivable 16,699 14,484 31,183 31,878 Investment income 3,038 19,860 22,898 20,091 Miscellaneous income – 1,736 1,736 6,906 TOTAL INCOMING RESOURCES 133,865 54,873 188,738 224,092

EXPENDITURE

Charitable Activities 110,932 – 110,932 111,999 Governance and administration – 35,144 35,144 39,427 TOTAL EXPENDITURE 110,932 35,144 146,076 151,426 NET INCOMING RESOURCES 22,933 19,729 42,662 72,666 FOR THE YEAR

STATEMENT OF OTHER RECOGNISED GAINS AND LOSSES Net incoming resources for the year 22,933 19,729 42,662 72,666 Unrealised investment (losses)/gains (14,973) (109,846) (124,819) (44,695) Net movement in funds for the year 7,960 (90,117) (82,157) 27,971 Total funds: Brought forward 595,698 455,955 1,051,653 1,023,682 Carried forward 603,658 365,838 969,496 1,051,653

24 Balance Sheet at 31 December 2008

2008 2007 £ £ £ £

FIXED ASSETS

Tangible assets 9,389 10,169 Investments 281,589 406,408 290,978 416,577 CURRENT ASSETS

Debtors 8,264 8,231 Cash at bank and in hand 671,754 631,345 680,018 639,576 CREDITORS (Amounts falling (1,500) (4,500) due within one year)

NET CURRENT ASSETS 678,518 635,076

TOTAL ASSETS LESS 969,496 1,051,653 CURRENT LIABILITIES

CAPITAL

Founder’s donation 200,000 200,000 Unrestricted fund 165,838 255,955 Restricted fund 603,658 595,698 969,496 1,051,653

Restricted funds are limited to expenditure on specific projects; unrestricted funds are intended to provide sufficient resources to maintain the general activities of the Charity. The Founder’s donation is the establishing donation given to NLS to contribute to the support of general activities. The balance on restricted funds represents donations received, the expenditure of which has not yet been incurred. The financial statements are prepared under the historical cost convention, with the exception of investments which are included at market value. The financial statements have been prepared in accordance with Generally Accepted Accounting Practice, Financial Reporting Standard for Smaller Entities (effective January 2007), The Companies Act 1985, and comply with the Charities Statement of Recommended Practice issued in March 2005. The Statement of Financial Activities and the Balance Sheet have been extracted from the full financial statements of the company. The opinion of the auditors on the full financial statements is reproduced below.

OPINION In our opinion the financial statements give a true and fair view in accordance with United Kingdom Generally Accepted Accounting Practices applicable to Smaller Entities of the state of the charitable company’s affairs as at 31 December 2008 and of its incoming resources and application of resources, including its income and expenditure, for the year then ended and have been properly prepared in accordance with the Companies Act 1985. In our opinion the information given in the report of the Directors and Trustees is consistent with the financial statements.

Approved by the Board of Directors and Trustees and signed on its behalf by:

PARKER CAVENDISH 28 Church Road Chartered Accountants & Registered Auditors Stanmore Middlesex Sir Nicholas Goodison HA7 4XR Chairman of Trustees 25 Projects and Collections

Leaders of National Life (C408) [30 interviews] Artists’ Lives (C466) [290 interviews] Leaders of National Life is one of NLS’s founding collections. Artists’ Lives was initiated in 1990 and is run in association Its scope is wide, and includes politics, industry, the arts, sports, with Archive. Collectively the interviews form an religion, the professions, administration and communications. extraordinary account of the rich context in which the visual Priority is given to those whose life stories have not been arts have developed in Britain during the twentieth and now previously recorded or published. twenty­first centuries. Artists’ Lives provides visual artists with a forum in which their lives and work can be documented City Lives (C409) [147 interviews] in their own words for posterity. We are grateful to all our sponsors but in particular to the steady support of The Henry City Lives explores the inner world of Britain’s financial Moore Foundation, The Fleming Collection, The Rootstein capital. Support from the City enabled NLS to make detailed Hopkins Foundation and The Yale Center for British Art. recordings with representatives from the Stock Exchange, Artists’ Lives Advisory Committee the merchant and clearing banks, the commodities and futures Sir Alan Bowness, Judith Bumpus, Penelope Curtis, markets, law and accounting firms, financial regulators, Caroline , Mel Gooding (chair), Beth Houghton, insurance companies and Lloyd’s of London. The project is a Richard Morphet, Chris Stephens and Margaret B Thornton. unique record of the complex inter­relationships and dramatic changes which defined the Square Mile in the twentieth century. City Lives: The Changing Voices of British Finance by Cathy Architects’ Lives (C467) [87 interviews] Courtney and Paul Thompson (Methuen, 1996) was edited Architects’ Lives documents architects working in Britain from the interviews. and those in associated professions. In addition to the main collection, and in association with the National Trust at Willow Living Memory of the Jewish Road, NLS made a series of recordings documenting memories of Ernö Goldfinger which resulted in a co­published CD Passionate Community (C410) [187 interviews] Rationalism (BL, 2004). NLS has also partnered English Heritage to document Eltham Palace and the Courtauld family (C1056). Holocaust Survivors’ Centre Architects’ Lives Advisory Committee Interviews (C830) [151 interviews] Colin Amery, Sherban Cantacuzino, Ian Gow, Jill Lever, Alan Powers, Margaret Richardson and Andrew Saint. These major collections were developed with the specialist advice of leading Jewish historians and complement a number of collections held by the Sound Archive on Jewish life. The primary Fawcett Collection (C468) [14 interviews] focus has been on pre­Second World War Jewish refugees to Supported by the Women’s Library (formerly known as the Britain, those fleeing from Nazi persecution during the Second Fawcett Society) this collection records the lives of pioneering World War, Holocaust survivors and their children. An online career women, each of whom made their mark in traditionally educational resource based on the collection is accessible at male­dominated areas such as politics, the law and medicine. www.bl.uk/services/learning/histcitizen/voices/holocaust.html Woman in a Man’s World by Rebecca Abrams (Methuen, and some full interviews are available on the web at 1993) was based on this collection. www.bl.uk/sounds. Lives in Steel (C532) [102 interviews] General Interviews (C464) Lives in Steel comprises personal histories recorded with [68 interviews] employees from one of Britain’s largest yet least understood This collection comprises diverse interviews additional to the industries. Interviewees range from top managers and trade main NLS projects. Interviewees are drawn from the fields unionists to technicians, furnacemen, shearers and many more. of education, medicine, retail, dance and engineering, and British Steel General Steels Division sponsored both the project include scientists, notably , Max Perutz and and the Lives in Steel CD (BL, 1993). Aaron Klug; and leading designers such as Terence Conran and members of Pentagram. Oral History of the British Press (C638) [18 interviews] This growing collection of interviews with key press and newspaper figures was extended with support from the British Library as part of the popular Front Page exhibition in 2006.

26 National Life Story Awards (C642) Crafts Lives (C960) [91 interviews] This nationwide competition ran in 1993 to promote the value Documenting the lives of Britain’s leading craftsmen and of life story recording and autobiographical writing. The judges, craftswomen, Crafts Lives complements Artists’ Lives among them Lord Briggs and Penelope Lively, chose winners and Architects’ Lives. Areas of activity include furniture­ from 1000 entries in three categories: young interviewer, taped making, embroidery, ceramics, jewellery, silversmithing, entries and written entries. Melvyn Bragg presented the prizes. , weaving and textiles, metalwork, glasswork The Awards were supported by the Arts Council, the ITV and . Telethon Trust, and European Year of Older People. Crafts Lives Advisory Committee Emmanuel Cooper, Amanda Fielding, Rosy Greenlees, Legal Lives (C736) [9 interviews] Tanya Harrod, Helen Joseph, John Keatley, Martina Margetts and Ralph Turner. This small but important collection documents changes in the legal profession in Britain, including interviews with both Lives in the Oil Industry (C963) solicitors and barristers. In 2008 three further interviews were [177 interviews] added, including Lady Justice Hale and Sir Sydney Kentridge QC. We expect to continue to augment this collection with a A joint National Life Stories/Aberdeen University project, view to fundraising for a larger scale project to start in 2011. which, between 2000 and 2005, recorded the major changes that occurred in the UK oil and gas industry in the twentieth Food: From Source to Salespoint (C821) century, focussing particularly on North Sea exploration [207 interviews] and the impact of the industry on this country. The project received support from within the industry. Food: From Source to Salespoint charted the revolutionary technical and social changes which have occurred within Britain’s food industry in the twentieth century and beyond. Production, An Oral History of the distribution and retailing of food are explored through recordings Post Office (C1007) [117 interviews] with those working at every level of the sector, including life stories with those in the ready­meal, poultry, sugar, meat and An Oral History of the Post Office, a partnership with Royal fish sectors; a series with employees of Northern Foods, Nestlé, Mail, captured the memories and experiences of individuals

Sainsbury’s and Safeway; and a series with key cookery writers from the postal services sector – from postmen and and restaurateurs. A set of interviews with Chefs is now postwomen, to union officials, sorters, engineers and senior underway. This project encompasses Tesco: An Oral History management. A CD, Speeding the mail: an oral history of the

(C1087) [39 interviews] and An Oral History of the Wine Trade post from the 1930s to the 1990s, was co­published by the British

(C1088) [40 interviews]. Postal Museum & Archive (BPMA) and the British Library (2005).

(C1015) Book Trade Lives (C872) [118 interviews] An Oral History of Wolff Olins [40 interviews] Book Trade Lives records the experiences of those who worked in publishing and bookselling between the early This project documented the development of design and

1920s and the present day. Interviews covered all levels corporate branding through a biographical project based of the trade, from invoice clerks and warehouse staff to around the growth and development of a single commercial wholesalers, editors, sales staff and executives. The Unwin company, Wolff Olins. Charitable Trust was lead funder for this project. The British Book Trade: An Oral History (British Library, 2008) was An Oral History of edited by Sue Bradley from the collection. British Fashion (C1046) [15 interviews] This collaborative initiative between London College of Fashion (University of the Arts London) and National Life Stories documents fashion and its related industries within living memory.

27 Pioneers in Charity and An Oral History of Barings Social Welfare (C1155) [14 interviews] In partnership with The Baring Archive, this project will record thirty life stories over the next two years. Focusing on the Records the memories and experiences of key figures history of Barings throughout the twentieth century, it will in social welfare, social policy and charitable endeavour. provide important insights into life and work within the bank Funded by the J Paul Getty Jr Charitable Trust. – including stories from the family and those working at all levels within the company. This will complement City Lives An Oral History of Theatre Design and document the bank up to and including its collapse and (C1173) [33 interviews] subsequent acquisition by ING in 1995. This collaborative project with Wimbledon College of Art Projects in Development (University of the Arts London) charts developments in

post­war British theatre design. 2009 will see the launch of the ambitious Oral History of Science in Britain, which aims to record 200 interviews over the next four years. In collaboration with the British Library’s Authors’ Lives (C1276) [19 interviews] History of Science specialists, this will be one of NLS’s largest Authors’ Lives was launched in 2007 with the aim of recording projects to date. approximately one hundred novelists, poets, writers and editors in its initial three years. The project has so far received Access funding from the Arts Council of England, ALCS and private Further information about projects can be found at individuals. Support from The Booker Prize Foundation will www.bl.uk/nls. The British Library Sound Archive catalogue enable short­listed authors to be interviewed for the archive. at www.cadensa.bl.uk provides detailed content data about Authors’ Lives Advisory Committee individual recordings. Some entire interviews are made available Jamie Andrews, Stephen Cleary, Martyn Goff, Mark Le Fanu, online at www.bl.uk/sounds and these include Jewish survivors Penelope Lively (chair), Deborah Moggach, Richard Price, of the Holocaust and visual artists and architects (available only Lawrence Sail and Jonathan Taylor. to further and higher education users). Contact [email protected] for The Legacy of the English Stage assistance with any of these services. Company (C1316) [7 interviews] Sponsored by the John Hodgson Theatre Research Trust, this series of interviews charts the story of the English Stage Company at the Royal Court Theatre. This complements other theatre collections and adds the important perspective of the theatre director. An Oral History of the Water Industry With recording starting imminently, this project will record twenty­five life story interviews with staff at all levels within the water industry. Funded by five water companies, these recordings will provide valuable information about one of Britain’s most important and least documented utilities.

28 How to support National Life Stories

NLS’s charitable status means that donations or sponsorship Bequests are subject to the relevant tax relief for either individuals or companies. There are four tax­efficient and convenient ways Sums left to National Life Stories are deducted from an estate to support National Life Stories. in the calculation of Inheritance Tax and are therefore free of tax. The NLS Administrator can advise on an appropriate form Gift Aid of words within a will. For further information please contact: The Gift Aid scheme allows us to claim back basic rate tax on Mary Stewart any donation received from individual taxpayers. This means Administrator that for every £100 donated we can claim an additional £28 National Life Stories from the Inland Revenue if a signed Gift Aid form is received. The British Library Sound Archive A Gift Aid form can be obtained from the NLS Administrator. 96 It needs to be completed and returned to NLS together with London NW1 2DB your cheque. United Kingdom T +44 (0)20 7412 7404 Companies F +44 (0)20 7412 7441 [email protected] Companies now pay the charity the full donation without deducting any tax and in turn obtain full tax relief when National Life Stories is the trading name of the National Life calculating their profits for corporation tax. Story Collection, which is registered as a company limited by guarantee no.2172518, and as a charity no.327571. Bankers: Donation of shares Lloyds TSB, Donors of shares are not deemed to have made a disposal 39 , that makes them liable to capital gains tax. The charity has London the option of retaining the shares or selling them. Unlisted EC2R 8AU (30­00­09) shares traded on a recognised exchange are included in this initiative. The individual making such a donation will also be able to reduce their taxable income by the value of the gift. A company donor will obtain full relief against corporation tax.

Donors and supporters in 2008

Booker Prize Foundation Michael Marks Charitable Trust Cambridge Water Company Henry Moore Foundation John S Cohen Foundation E & L Sieff Charitable Trust Sir Roger Gibbs University of Archives John Hodgson Theatre Research Trust Sir Peter and Lady Wakefield Gry Iverslien Sir Siegmund Warburg’s Voluntary Settlement Stefan Lazaridis Yale Center for British Art Lennox and Wyfold Foundation

Front cover images: clockwise from top left – Manchester by Fred Yates. Photo courtesy of John Martin Gallery. | Close up of the flower of Bletia catenulata, an orchid some 2 metres high, from the Peruvian Andes at 2,000 metres. Photo courtesy of Henry Oakeley. | Derek Boshier at work. Photo by Hester Westley. | Moroccan Memories in Britain exhibition launch, December 2008. Photo by Elizabeth Hunter, British Library. | Baring Securities. Photo courtesy of The Baring Archive. Back cover images: clockwise from top left – Rita Tushingham and Philip Locke in Ann Jellicoe’s play, The Knack, co­directed by Ann Jellicoe and Keith Johnstone, Royal Court Theatre, 1962. Photo courtesy of Roger Mayne. | Cyrus Todiwala of Café Spice Namasté. Photo courtesy of Cyrus Todiwala. | Penzance Harbour by Fred Yates. Photo courtesy of John Martin Gallery. | Cover of Eltham Palace tour guide, English Heritage 1999. | Detail of 3D Macrogauze, Kiryu Performing Arts Centre, Japan. Photo courtesy of the Collingwood family. NATIONAL es stori Life The National Contact 96 T London F www.bl.uk/nls [email protected] +44 +44 Euston British (0)20 (0)20 NW1 Life us Road Library 7412 7412 Stories 2DB 7441 7404 Sound Archive Contact at Listen www.cadensa.bl.uk Online T www.bl.uk/listening [email protected] +44 the (0)20 British to our catalogue the Listening 7412 collection Library 7418 and access Viewing Service: