Tuesday Volume 495 7 July 2009 No. 107

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 7 July 2009

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homes can be unfair, inflexible and can stop people who House of Commons need to move in order to take up or pursue work from doing so. The Prime Minister announced and I will set Tuesday 7 July 2009 out in detail before the end of the month ways in which local authorities can give greater preference according to the priorities and pressures in their area. That might The House met at half-past Two o’clock include, for some, supporting those who want to work but who need to move in order to do so. PRAYERS Mr. Clive Betts (Sheffield, Attercliffe) (Lab): Will my right hon. Friend confirm that giving more priority to people with local needs is not about race but about [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] trying to help people such as Katie Wilson, in my constituency, who has been on the waiting list for 17 years and simply wants to be housed in the community Oral Answers to Questions where she was brought up, where her family and friends are? It is about allowing people to move near grandparents so that they can support the children and allow the parents to go out to work. It is those sorts of issues that COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT are important and they are currently not given sufficient priority in the allocation systems. The Secretary of State was asked— : I hope that we can move beyond this Social Housing argument about immigration. I am not proposing to change the rules about who can apply so that foreign migrants do not have a right to go on to council housing 1. Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): When he plans to lists. I want to give councils greater freedom and greater introduce revised guidance for local authorities on scope to be able to make judgments about whom to give social housing allocations; and if he will make a preference after they have housed those who are in the statement. [284335] most serious housing need. The views of my hon. Friend’s council in Sheffield might be very different to The Minister for Housing (John Healey): Before the the support that councils in Southwark or Somerset end of the month. might want to give. The principle for this Government is that we should give councils that greater scope to be Phil Wilson: Part of Sedgefield has been designated a able to devise and run their lettings list in a way that growth point in south Durham and is attracting a lot of best meets local housing needs. economic investment. What more can the Minister’s Department and Durham county council do to enhance Julia Goldsworthy (Falmouth and Camborne) (LD): investment in social housing in Sedgefield and other I take this opportunity to welcome the Secretary of parts of County Durham? State to his new post and to congratulate the Housing Minister—although he is a familiar face in the local John Healey: I am aware of the commitment that my government Front-Bench team—on his elevation. I would hon. Friend’s council in Durham has to helping people also like to express my sorrow at the deaths of the six through this tough period of recession. I am also aware adults and children who died at the Sceaux Gardens of its long-term plans to lift the county and its residents. estate the other day. I am sure that we all want to ensure He asked me what more the council could do. I suggest that such a terrible tragedy cannot be repeated in any of that it look at the announcement that we made last our social housing estates. week of £1.5 billion extra in order that we can build this It was slightly cringe-worthy to hear the Housing year and next year the homes that people need—affordable Minister trying to explain this morning why his priority homes that people can rent and buy. My hon. Friend is to tackle a misperception about access to social and his council will notice that we have increased fourfold housing when the fundamental problem, surely, is the the funding and therefore the number of homes that lack of social housing. Is not the key way to solve that councils can build over this year and next year. In short, to get rid of the housing revenue account subsidy it should bid for the money. system? Given that the Prime Minister trailed such a move in January and that we now have a further Sir George Young (North-West Hampshire) (Con): consultation on a review, is it not time that the decision The Minister will know that tenants in the social housing was brought forward rather than delayed further? sector need to move from one local authority area to another for family or employment reasons. Does not John Healey: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her the injunction from the Prime Minister to give priority comments. She might have missed my statement last to local people inhibit tenant mobility? week, which set out my aim to dismantle the housing revenue account and the announcement that, from last John Healey: No—exactly the opposite. As a week, councils that build new homes will be able to keep distinguished former Housing Minister the right hon. in full all rents and any capital receipts from them. It is Gentleman will recognise that we need new homes and a first step in making wholesale reforms, which are long we need to build homes that people can afford to rent. overdue, and a part of removing the barriers to councils’ He will also know that there is a perception that the being able to build, commission building and see the system for allocating council and housing association provision of homes in their areas that people need. 821 Oral Answers7 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 822

Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab): I am aware of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the consultation document seeking views on options for Communities and Local Government (Mr. Ian Austin): addressing the impact on local communities of high New guidance for British standard BS8300 which was concentrations of houses in multiple occupation. Local published in March includes for the first time detailed residents in the centre of Ormskirk are affected by guidance for Changing Places toilets. A review of part homes in multiple occupation, and in particular there is M of the building regulations, which covers the access a high concentration of students. May I urge the Minister to and use of buildings, will begin this year and will to take their views into consideration and to bring consider the possible inclusion of such toilet facilities. into reality changes to the legislation, as he sees fit from that consultation? Dr. Starkey: The Minister may not be aware that one of the first Changing Places toilets was installed in the John Healey: I am looking at this matter very carefully, centre of Milton Keynes. It means that families with and will take into account the views of the residents in disabled children can enjoy a day out just like any other Ormskirk that my hon. Friend has reported to the House. family. When part M of the building regulations is I shall also take her views into account, and I am looked at, may I urge him to ensure that it includes a looking to make decisions on this matter pretty shortly. requirement that a Changing Places toilet is put in every newly built major public building? Mrs. Caroline Spelman (Meriden) (Con): I also congratulate the Minister for Housing on his promotion, and welcome him and the Minister for Regional Economic Mr. Austin: First, may I thank my hon. Friend and Development and Co-ordination to their new roles in the many hon. Members of all parties who have written the Department. Like the whole House, I am sure, I to me about Changing Places? I also thank all those wish to share in the condolences extended to the bereaved hon. Members who attended the recent Mencap reception from Camberwell. for everything that they are doing to highlight the importance of providing suitable facilities for disabled I had to replay the Minister’s interview on the “Today” people. No one who attended the reception and who programme this morning twice to understand precisely saw the film about Lowri and her mother Bethan could what the Government’s position on housing now is. Will fail to be moved about what they and many other he confirm that the Government’s plans may change the disabled people have to experience. requirement in primary legislation to give housing priority to the homeless, families with children and the overcrowded? I congratulate my hon. Friend on the impact that she has had at a local level in ensuring that Milton Keynes John Healey: I am glad that the hon. Lady is following was one of the first towns in the country to install one our announcements so closely. To be clear, I have said of the 85 new facilities that I am pleased to say have consistently—and I confirmed it last week, well before been developed. I can give her the assurance that she today’s “Today” programme—that I am not changing seeks, and I believe that the 85 facilities that have been the requirement for local councils to give priority to developed are a very good start. I encourage all hon. those in most serious housing need. In other words, I Members to work with their local authorities, as she am not touching the reasonable preference categories. has, so that more can be provided in future. What I am looking to do, and I shall publish this at the end of the month, is to set out new statutory guidance that will allow councils more scope to give preference to East Sussex Waste Plan people in their area who they believe are in most need, or to relieve the pressures that they are under. However, 3. Norman Baker (Lewes) (LD): What funding his that can work only when placed alongside a serious Department has provided to local authorities in connection programme to build more homes. That was what the with the East Sussex local waste plan since that plan housing pledge and the Prime Minister’s commitment was adopted. [284337] last week was all about.

Mrs. Spelman: But given that waiting lists have soared The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for by 800,000, and the legal requirement to house priority Communities and Local Government (Mr. Ian Austin): groups, is not the Prime Minister’s pledge of The Department has provided approximately £70,000 to East Sussex county council and Brighton and Hove “local homes for local people” city council through a combination of planning delivery simply empty rhetoric—a dog whistle to Labour’s grant and housing and planning delivery grant. disillusioned and abandoned core vote?

John Healey: No. What would be empty rhetoric Norman Baker: I thank the Minister for that answer, would be a professed concern for housing in this country but he might also have mentioned the private finance alongside a plan to take £800 million out of the housing initiative credits provided previously by the Treasury. budget this year and 10 per cent. in every year after that, Does he share my concern that some of the promises because that would mean that we could not build the from East Sussex county council, especially about its homes that we need for the future. disliked incinerator, have simply not been carried through? For example, it promised that the incinerator could be Changing Places Toilets accessed by rail, but in reality every deposit will come by road, with a lorry passing through Newhaven every 2. Dr. Phyllis Starkey (Milton Keynes, South-West) two minutes. What can the Government do to ensure (Lab): What recent steps he has taken to increase the that the county council pays some attention at least to number of Changing Places toilets. [284336] the environmental effect of its actions? 823 Oral Answers7 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 824

Mr. Austin: We expect local plans to be based on a Justine Greening (Putney) (Con): This year business strong understanding of the potential for supplying rate tax rises were so unaffordable that Ministers have energy to local developments by renewable and low-carbon had to introduce an emergency rates deferral scheme. technologies. We publish practice guidance to help do Next year’s revaluation could see thousands more struggling that and to show how it can be done. businesses hit again, just because of their location. If, in 2005, 700,000 properties saw their rateable values rise Business Rates Revaluation by 20 per cent. or more, how many businesses need to lose out in the 2010 revaluation before Ministers decide that their formula does more harm than good? If Ministers 4. Mrs. Jacqui Lait (Beckenham) (Con): What impact are not going to assess that impact, why not? assessment his Department has conducted in preparation for the 2010 business rates revaluation. Ms Winterton: The hon. Lady made the same point [284340] in a recent debate. She still does not seem to understand that the system is based on legislation that was introduced The Minister for Regional Economic Development and by the previous Administration, and is based on a Co-ordination (Ms Rosie Winterton): As business rates formula whereby business rates increase by the RPI. revaluation is a regular exercise every five years, no There is overall no greater collection of the business impact assessment is carried out in preparation. However, rates. It occurs to me that the hon. Lady has never said an impact assessment of the transitional arrangements in any of her contributions what she would do. She for the 2010 business rates revaluation will be published knows how the system works, yet she comes up with shortly, alongside a consultation document setting out nothing but empty accusations, and no plans whatever the Government’s proposals for a transitional relief for the future. scheme. Pennbury Eco-town Mrs. Lait: I am grateful to the Minister for that answer, and I am sure businesses will be grateful too. In a recent survey that I conducted in Beckenham, 46 per 5. Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): When he cent. of small businesses said that they needed help plans to announce his decision on the proposed Pennbury already with business rates. Given that the threshold for eco-town in Leicestershire. [284341] the supplementary business rate is only £50,000, and the effect that that will have on small businesses, does The Minister for Housing (John Healey): I expect to the Minister agree that a revision of that level should be make announcements in relation to Pennbury and other included, otherwise the Government will be accused of sites with the potential to be an eco-town before the sneakily increasing the burden on small businesses? summer recess.

Ms Winterton: In fact, the small business rate relief Mr. Robathan: I thank the Minister for that answer. scheme is extremely effective. Overall, the assistance to He will know that there is next to no local support for businesses has been about £260 million in the past year. the Pennbury town idea, excepting that of the Co-operative That is something that we introduced alongside a range Society—a situation that, I suggest, involves some conflict of other measures to assist businesses during these of interest with the Labour Government. He will know difficult economic times, very often in the teeth of also that there is nothing ecological about building on a opposition from the Conservative party. greenfield site and no demand for housing on that scale, so will he learn the lesson of past new towns—of Mr. Ken Purchase (Wolverhampton, North-East) (Lab/ building huge new towns without any existing infrastructure Co-op): No one in the House can be unaware of the and of how unpopular they have been—and understand difficulty of imposing additional costs on small businesses, what a disaster the new town would be for the people of in particular at this time. The other side of that, of Leicestershire? course, is that businesses continue to make demands on local services, especially the emergency services—fire John Healey: As I come to make decisions on the and police—and especially where premises may be empty matter, I will have the benefit of quite an extensive for whatever reason. So whatever else happens in the consultation, of additional assessments that have been present exercise, will the Minister ensure that while undertaken, and of the opportunity that has been given protecting the interests and the balance sheets of small to everyone, including residents in the hon. Gentleman’s companies, local authorities are properly compensated constituency and Members, to make their views known. for any income forgone as a result of that effort to I say to him very clearly that the links that any developer protect small businesses? or company may have with any of those eco-town proposals and with any political party are simply not a Ms Winterton: My hon. Friend makes an important material consideration in the decision that I take, and point. Some £20 billion in business rates is collected and will not be. distributed to local authorities around the country. Given that the business rate increase is based on the Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester, South) (Lab): May I retail prices index and that there was a spike from last urge the Minister, when he makes an announcement on September, we are introducing the transitional rate relief Pennbury, to reject it firmly? The scheme will have a this year in order to ensure that there is not a big impact devastating effect on my constituency and on the city of on businesses, while maintaining the income to the local Leicester in general—on transport infrastructure, in authorities. particular, and on regeneration investment in the city. 825 Oral Answers7 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 826

The scheme is based on ludicrously unrealistic projections Grant Shapps (Welwyn Hatfield) (Con): The Prime of traffic and jobs and is, frankly, the wrong scheme in Minister launched the eco-town programme in a blaze the wrong place. of publicity in May 2007 and then upped it to 10 eco-towns, but here we are two years later and the Government are John Healey: I hear what my hon. Friend has said. still consulting on the matter and still consulting about planning guidance. The small print of last week’s draft Mr. Edward Garnier (Harborough) (Con): And the legislative programme, however, revealed on page 122 Minister will hear it again when, I hope, he permits me, that the towns have now been pushed back to 2020. So, the hon. Member for Leicester, South (Sir Peter Soulsby), will the Minister—the fourth to have been across the my hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Melton Dispatch Box from me—now just admit that the (Alan Duncan) and the right hon. Member for Leicester, programme is a shambles, that developers are running East (Keith Vaz) to see him with an all-party delegation, scared, that judicial reviews have delayed it, that it will as we have requested, to provide him with some of the require massive public subsidy when the coffers are bare facts of life about the popularity and utility of the and that the Government’s own environmental advisory scheme. It will be in my constituency and it will impose panel said that, at best, only one eco-town was a town of 40,000 residents in the middle of rural environmentally friendly? Is it not time that this Housing Leicestershire. It is an idiotic scheme, and—Mr. Speaker, Minister, the ninth since the Government came to power, I shall be very brief—the sooner this Minister, who is admitted that the unpopular eco-town programme is a the fourth such Minister to have to deal with the issue, complete shambles and scrapped it? realises that and promises not to make an announcement— Mr. Speaker: Order. I think we have had enough, and John Healey: On the contrary. I ask the hon. Gentleman can I just make the point that what one is seeking at to be a little patient; I have said to the House that I Question Time is questions fr