An Interview with Isadore Washington

An Oral History Conducted by Claytee D. White

The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project

Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas

i ©The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2007

Produced by:

The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Editors: Barbara Tabach Transcribers: Kristin Hicks Interviewers and Project Assistants: Barbara Tabach and Claytee D. White

ii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the

generosity of Dr. Harold Boyer. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person

narratives. The participants in this project thank the university for the support given that

allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish.

The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments,

false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All

measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases

photographic sources accompany the individual interviews.

The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices

of the Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project.

Claytee D. White, Project Director Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada, Las Vegas Table of Contents

Son of Isadore and Destelle Washington; born in Tallulah, Louisiana; father came to work on Hoover Dam in the thirties; family came to Las Vegas in 1942; mother worked as maid at El Rancho and Last Frontier; played with Wayne Newton as children; describing Harrison and Shaw apartments; cousins own Town Tavern on Westside; businesses on Jackson Street; family-owned properties 1-6

Attended Westside Elementary, Fifth Street School, and Las Vegas High School; did pioneer survey which identified Peeve as first black mailman; joining sheriffs department as first black deputy sheriff; description of uniform, anecdotes concerning duties; transferring to San Bernadino, 1960; mention of The Cove, Jackson Street Hotel, and Moulin Rouge; serving as transport service for Larry Steel Dancers from the Dunes; story about Pearl Bailey and her brother Bill 7-12

Mention of Southern Memorial Hospital (now UMC); return to Las Vegas, 1982, as chief of security for Town Tavern (owned by relatives); comments on renters Lou Rawls and Sam Cooke; mention of son and daughter; reference to NAACP, Dr. McMillan, and the 1960 march for integration; memories of Diana Ross, Eartha Kitt, and Jimmy Gay; Basic Magnesium Plant and Carver Park in Henderson; Herman Moody, first motorcycle police officer 13-17

Comments on Mob involvement in personal history; discussion about church affiliation; mention of Reverend Bennett and Zion AME; mention of Nevada Test Site and Area 51; opinions on blacks buying clothes and cars in Las Vegas; second mention of NAACP; comments on EOB; second mention of Moulin Rouge and the entertainers who came to party there - Lena Home, Pearl Bailey, Cab Callaway; comments about Sarann Knight and the Moulin Rouge, the architect of Berkeley Square (Paul Williams), and a final reference to Herman Moody 18-23

iv Preface

Isadore Washington was born in Tallulah, Louisiana, the son of Isadore Washington, Sr., and Destelle Washington. His father came out to Las Vegas in the '30s to work on Hoover Dam, and the family followed in 1942 when Isadore was eight years old.

Isadore recalls playing with Wayne Newton when they were children, his mother working at the El Rancho and Last Frontier Hotels, the Shaw Apartments and Harrison boarding house on the Westside where black entertainers were expected to stay, and attending Westside School. He also lists some of the properties that members of his family have built or owned on the Westside.

After high school, Isadore joined the sheriffs department and became the first black deputy sheriff. He describes both the uniform he wore and some of the calls he went on as part of his duties. He left Las Vegas in 1960 to work in San Bernardino, and then returned in 1982 to care for his mother.

Isadore recalls people and places on the Westside in the eighties, medical care for blacks as far back as the fifties, and renting a room to entertainers after he bought his first house. He also shares some information about his son and daughter.

There are many memories of historical events, famous people and places, and activities that span several decades. Isadore was involved in or has some knowledge of much of the history of the Westside and Las Vegas itself.

v This is Claytee White. It is February 7th, 2008. And I'm at First AME Church with Isadore Washington. Could you spell your first name for me, please? I-s-a-d-o-r-e. So how are you doing today? Very good. Beautiful day. Well, I'm so glad that we can do this finally. I've heard a lot of talk about you for years and years now. So tell me a little bit about where you grew up and what that childhood was like. Well, I was born in Louisiana. And my dad came here in the early 40s during the war to work on the dam. Your father worked on the dam? Yes. So you came here in the 30s. No. He came first. Oh, he came before the rest of the family. Yes. So what did he tell you about working on the dam? Well, he told me that he's lucky to be alive because when they were pouring the dam there were men that fell off into the cement. And they couldn't stop pouring. They just kept on pouring. And a lot of people don't know that about that. But there's a lot of bodies inside that concrete when they was building the dam. Did he tell you anything about his exact job on the dam? Well, he was a laborer at the time. Do you know where he lived when he came out here by himself? Oh, yes. He lived in one of Mr. Moody's apartment on D Street. And he was the father of Herman Moody at D and Van Bur en. Oh, yes. I know exactly where that is. Thank you so much. Now, at the time a lot of black people were still living downtown. Well, there were a lot of black people living in tents and shacks when I came here. Now, when did you come to Las Vegas?

1 In I think '42. I think it's '42. So who came with you? My sister and me. My mother had come, oh, about six months before to be with my father. But my godmother was scheduled to come and she brought my sister and me out here on the train. Now, where in are Louisiana are you from? Tallulah, Louisiana. Can you tell me how that migration started — people coming from Tallulah, Louisiana, and Fordyce, Arkansas ~ how did that get started? To work on the dam. It was during the wartime and they needed a lot of black laborers. There were good jobs. People started coming from Arkansas and Louisiana. But your father came in the 30s. Was he one of the first from Tallulah to come here? No. No. My uncle, whose name was Mose Carr, was one of the first that came here. And he sent for my dad and the other relatives. Now, do you know what men did for a living or what families did for a living after the dam was built and before World War II? So from 1935 to about 1941 or '42, what kind of work did they do? Well, they had a plant in Henderson called BMI Plant. They were making war equipment and stuff like that. Right. So before that plant, do you have any idea what they did for a living, between the dam and the plant? No. I don't know. Back before '41,1 wouldn't know that. The war was going on. So tell me how old you were when you came. I was eight years old. So do you remember anything about Tallulah? Not really. I was only in school like about two years when I came out here. My uncle had a barbershop and a grocery store back in Tallulah. What is your father's name? I'm a junior. His name is Isadore Washington. And your mother's name?

2 Destelle Washington. Okay. So did your mother go to work when she arrived? Yes. My mother was one of the maids at the El Rancho hotel, one of the first hotels. It's torn down now. What kind of stories did she tell you about the El Rancho? Oh, not very much. She went to work there like maybe a year before my sister and I arrived with my godmother. But she worked there. And then she transferred over to The Last Frontier hotel. That's where my dad used to pick her up from work. My sister and I used to play with Wayne Newton back in the day. And he was a little chubby, fat boy. So how did you meet him? Well, he was living at the Frontier hotel. And his parents had something to do with it. Had he started performing there at that time? No. No. He wasn't working at all. He was, oh, a few years younger than my sister and me. So tell me what did you do when you saw Wayne Newton at the hotel? Did you go into the swimming pool? What kind of things did you do? Oh, no. Of course, back in the day, in the 40s as kids, we didn't know anything about integration at all. But I know back in the 40s that the adults could not do anything but work out on the Strip. When my father built a house on F Street, there was another big house called the Shaw Apartments. That's where Sammy Davis Junior and Pearl Bailey and all the entertainers who came to town had to live across the street. They could not live on the Strip. They could not — all they could do was work and come back to the apartment. It was like a little rooming house. Now, wasn't there another woman with a rooming house also, named Harrison? Yes. That's the one that live across the street on F and Adams, Harrison Apartments. It was like a rooming house. It's still there. It's a historic landmark now. But the Shaw Apartments were at F and Van Buren behind the New Town Tavern. In fact, my folks owned the New Town Tavern as of present time now. That's the only black nightclub still operating at F and Jackson. You were related to the owner of the Town Tavern? Yes. Yes. Well, Sir Wash, I would love to interview the owner of the Town Tavern.

3 Yeah. It would be nice. Can you set that up, too? Yes. His name's Elijah Green. They call him "Bayboo." But he and his oldest daughter are running the Town Tavern. So how are they related to you? Cousin. They're your cousins. Okay. So let's get back to the Wayne Newton story. Tell me — children didn't know anything about race relations. No. So what kind of games or how did you play - did the three of you play together? Well, he had a ball, basketball. And we would be throwing it back and forth until my mom got off work. But I learned to grow up with Wayne after he started entertainment as a young kid. When he got grown, I was introduced to his wife and had dinner and everything over there. But, you know, back in the day we didn't know nothing about integration. But it existed up until, well, '55 when the Moulin Rouge was built. Before you tell me about the Moulin Rouge, tell me about going to school here in Las Vegas. Where did you and sister go to school? Well, they had the school called Westside School. It's still where KCEP is now. So we went to school with the white and Spanish that we grew up with. Didn't know nothing about integration back there then. But we went to that Westside School. And so in the Westside at that point you had blacks, whites and Latinos? Right. Now, would whites, blacks and Latinos all live on the same block or would there be certain areas of the Westside where each group would live? Well, I know that the Spanish kids — I knew they lived around the — not too far from the school because I remember the Bravos, they had a grocery store there. And I grew up with them. And did they have their own section where they lived? Yes.

4 And did whites have their own section and blacks had their own section on the Westside? Right. Right. Do you remember John Mendoza? Yes. I went to school with the Mendozas. Yeah, they went to the Westside School. They had a grocery store, also.

So now, did any blacks own grocery stores? No. No. What kind of businesses ~ Well, there was one store — in fact, there were two stores, Johnson on D Street and another one on Jackson Street. I can't think of it right now. But she just passed away about a year ago. She was one of the oldest businesswomen. I remember when she passed away.

She had a grocery store on Jackson Street. In fact, she and her husband were the first blacks to come to Las Vegas. They were the first? The first.

So her husband must have worked on the railroad. Yes. Yes. Right. That's right, because she was about a hundred when she passed away. Yes. Yes. Tell me, do you remember your neighbors who lived right around your house? My family bought the whole block. In fact, we still own the whole block. Which block is that? F and Jefferson. So on the F side —

Yeah. We bought apartments. They bought homes. Yeah. Seven apartments. Seven apartment buildings? Yeah. We got five in a row on Jefferson and two on F. And then on Jackson Street, we've got four. And on I Street — we own a couple on I Street, also.

5 So who in the family is still here? You and who else? Elijah that owns the Town Tavern. And I got my niece. She owns a home. In fact, it was right across from the street from where my sister — before she passed away. Judge Bob Mullen had bought a home across the street. He was the first black judge. In fact, he was a policeman also, Bob Mullen. I'm going to ask you about the police department and sheriffs department in just a little while. But blacks owning property wasn't rare at all. Blacks owned property when they were downtown as well. But to own as much property as your family owns, that is just amazing. So your father started buying the property or was it ~ My uncle. The uncle who first came? Yeah. He was a carpenter. Well, I had two uncles. One was a minister. He built a black church. And my uncle Mose Carr, he — What is his name again? Mose Carr. Would you spell his last name? Carr, C-a-r-r. And what was the other uncle's name? Anderson. They bought property and homes across from Wendell Williams School. In fact, the two-story — my uncle had built the biggest home that was over here on the Westside, a big two-story home. Yeah. What do you see as the future of the Westside? With owning that much property, you and your family, what do you see as the future of this area? Well, it will have been classified as a downtown redevelopment. And the city wants it real bad because it can rain cats and dogs. Five minutes later you never knew it had rained. No problem with flooding over here. No problem at all. Don't even have to have flood insurance. So what do you think the family is going to do? Do you think you'll go along with the city?

6 Well, there are not too many of us still living. I guess they figure it's just a matter of time. A whole lot of kids that I grew up with, after their parents died they sold the property for peanuts, you know. So the city owns most of it now. Yeah. There are just a few blocks that they don't own because it's rented out. The homes that still exist are rented out. Like in front of — well, the whole block is Spanish that they rent. They don't own nothing. They just rent. So now, at one time the Westside became all black. Is that correct? Right. With shacks and tents. So how did that happen? After the shacks and tents went away and they began to build housing projects and houses, what happened to the Latinos, the Mexican-Americans, the whites that were living over here? They moved out across town in different places. Yeah. So in the mid-50s we began to get the sewage lines and electricity and all of that. Do you remember how that happened? Well, I don't think it was the mid-50s. It was like in the 60s because it was after integration started. And they start investing. So tell me after you left Westside School, where did you go to school? Fifth Street School. And Fifth Street was a grammar school. And then the high school after that. And that was Las Vegas High School? Las Vegas High. Any other classmates that you remember or schoolmates? Well, most of them are dead and gone now. But I remember — well, I used to play football. And Howard Barber, he was the star in Las Vegas High. In fact, he married Shirley Barber. She's — School board? School board now, yes. And Howard's still living. Sarann Knight — I went to school with a few of her kids. She got one that's still living now, James. Anyway, I did a pioneer survey over at the West Las Vegas Library. Explain that to me. What is a pioneer survey? Well, we got together to see who was still living. And there was — our first blackmail man's name was Peeve.

7 Peeve? That's the only name. Everybody knew him by Peeve. And it was probably P-e-e-v-e? Yes. He was the first black — and he's still living. He's about 80 years old now. I saw him a couple of weeks ago.

Now, all these people that you're naming, the first black mailman, the owner of the Town Tavern, I want to interview them. Yeah.

Okay, good. Tell me what you did after high school. Well, after high school I joined the sheriffs department. I was the first black deputy sheriff. Which year was that? '52.

What was that work like? Well, Sheriff Glen Jones was the sheriff. And he was a friend of my aunt that owned one of the first — well, it was the first black nightclub in the county called El Rio Club. And Glen Jones was my aunt's — she was married to Clark Hazenman. That's why she owned a lot of property downtown and up in Mount Charleston. She outlived her husband. Before he died he was still active. So I was just waiting on leaving town to go to college. But they needed a sheriff back out there because El Rio was in the county then. And that's where all the activity was going on. Where was the El Rio located?

It was on H. It's Revere and Lake Mead now. It's where H Street turned into Revere right in front ofthe - Seven Seas? Seven Seas.

So which corner was the El Rio? It's called the Post. You know, where the VFW Post? Yes. That was the county. So that's where the El Rio was. It was the post then. They got a church house right in the same yard. That was a furniture store. My uncle and I went there and got the

8 furniture in a big old trailer to open up a furniture store before he died. That church house was a furniture store. Yeah. So what was the work like being a deputy sheriff? Did you have a certain area that you patrolled? Yes. In the county from the El Rio — well, most activity was going on at the El Rio. And that's where they needed somebody, right there. So why did they need people at the El Rio? Because the people would leave the Westside and come out there drinking and gambling and thought they were free to do whatever they wanted to do. It was like a cowboy town. So did you have whites and blacks there? Yeah. It was like cowboy. So that's what kind of uniform the deputy sheriff wore then, like cowboys. Did you wear the star? Yeah. Yeah. Gray and white striped uniform, cowboy hat, boots, the whole thing. Did you have a horse? (Laughing). Well, could you arrest anybody? No. Back in the day the black policeman could not arrest a white troublemaker. They had to call downtown and have a white policeman to come over to help them arrest a white guy if he was doing wrong. I worked for the sheriffs department for a year. And Herman Moody, he sort of like drafted me to come to the police department. Herman Moody was the first black ~ He was the first black. ~ on the police department? On the police department. So did it change once you went on the police department? When I went on the police department, I did not — my first year nobody ever told me that a black policeman could arrest a white person. So they had a bar down at Bonanza and D Street called Gibbons Liquor Store. That's where most of the blacks and whites would hang out. But my first year with the police department I got a call — I was working by myself. And I got a call that there was a troublemaker at the Gibbons Liquor Store. When I got there and found out it was a white

9 guy, and that he was raising all kind of trouble — everybody was afraid to mess with him. So when I got there and tried to cool him down, he paid no attention to me. So I had to place him under arrest. And he told me, he said, boy, you can't arrest me. You've got to call the white man. But nobody ever told me that I couldn't — my first year I'm a young 22 years old. And nobody told me that. That wasn't in my job description; that I couldn't arrest anybody. So I placed him under arrest. And then when I tried to get him into the police car, he wouldn't go. He started fighting me. So I handcuffed him and myself. And I walked him all the way down to the police station underneath the underpass. Well, we had a good time all the way to the police station. And everybody was talking, man, you can't arrest a white man. But nobody ever told me. All I know is somebody broke the law and they were under arrest and I had to get them down to the jailhouse no matter how. But I was afraid to put him in the police car because it would have probably caused a wreck or something. But under the underpass — you could walk underneath the underpass back then. So we fought all the way downtown to the police station. And did they hold him? Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, they stripped him down. But they didn't say nothing to me at the police station because he was still raising all kind of trouble at the police station. So how long did you work for the police department? I worked for the police department until 1960 when I transferred to California. Oh. So where in California did you go? San Bernardino. Okay. Now, what made you leave here and go to San Bernardino? Well, my family couldn't take Las Vegas because of my job. So my wife moved back to San Bernardino. I put my house up for rent and moved — well, I moved to San Bernardino. Then I got on the police department down there and that's where I retired at in 1982. And then you moved back to Las Vegas? And then I moved back to Las Vegas because I had a problem with someone taking care of my mom after my father passed away.

10 And you've been back here ever since, since '82? Yes. So how did the town change while you were away because you were gone for about, what, 20 years? So how did it change? Well, it was quite different from what it was because they had a whole lot of people that had moved in here from L. A. And they just took over the town then. They had torn down the two hotels and a whole lot of nightclubs were out of business. So which two hotels are you talking about? The Cove and Jackson Street Hotel. Now, who owned the Jackson Street Hotel? I really didn't know. And the Jackson Street Hotel was not a casino; it was just a hotel; is that right? It was just a hotel. Right. Now, were you here when ~ yes. Tell me about when the Moulin Rouge opened in 1955. When the Moulin Rouge opened I was a rookie policeman then. But before it opened I had to patrol that area to keep the thieves from stealing the lumber. So I knew all about the Moulin Rouge. Then after it was open for six months — I used to — had to transfer some of the entertainers back over to the Moulin Rouge after hours because after they worked they couldn't live out at the hotels. They had to come back. The Moulin Rouge and the Cotton Club and the El Morocco were where all the entertainers hung out. Who were some of the entertainers that you carried back and forth? Oh, well, I was only transporting the girls. Why is that? Yeah. They felt safe with me. So did you have a business on the side? No. Just after I was working a 4-to-12 shift. And after 12 o'clock I would change. The last show was at 12 from the Strip. So I would change out of my uniform and go out to the Strip and pick them up and bring them back to the El Morocco — I mean — So in your own car?

11 Yes. So who were these girls that you would bring to the Westside? Larry Steel Dancers. And I was living in Cadillac Arms, too. I had a duplex in Cadillac Arms. Now, the Larry Steel Dancers were dancing where? At the Desert Inn. At the Dunes? Yes. The Dunes was a very popular place. So now, did you also get to transport people like Pearl Bailey or any of the stars? Well, Pearl Bailey — yeah. She had her own transportation. But I remember like about the second or third year I was — she used to live in Shaw Apartments on F and Van Buren. And she and her brother Bill Bailey were living there. And I never will forget when Bill Bailey — he was an alcoholic or on drugs or whatever. But I remember one day he took Pearl Bailey's money because he was high. She was saving money because her mom was sick, saving money to send back and take care of mom. Her brother Bill got in a fight with her and she hit him with a water pitcher and cut him in the head and he had to go to the hospital. There was a thing back then that when somebody got hurt, you had to call the police. So I was working that day. Called the sergeant and everybody — a couple of cars came out. And they wanted to arrest Pearl Bailey. But I knew the situation of how Bill was acting. I kept her from going to jail, so she adopted me. I never will forget that. Now, tell me what medical care was like for blacks in Las Vegas. Oh, well, we had a couple of black doctors back there then, too. Now, the first black doctor didn't come until, what, 1954? Yeah. Dr. West? Uh-huh. Now, do you remember the person who was a chiropractor? His name was — ooh, can't remember his name right now. But he had a practice here in the 30s. Oh, no. His name was Dehay.

12 No, I don't remember that. Never heard of him? No. So prior to Dr. West, where did you have your medical care? Man, I can't even remember. But it was on the Westside. There was a doctor on the Westside? Uh-huh. Yeah. And what about if you had to go to the hospital? For a woman that's having a baby and goes to the hospital or any other hospitalization, was the hospital integrated? Yes. Southern Memorial Hospital. It's still there. Is that where UMC is? Yeah. It used to be Southern Memorial back there then. And the hospital was integrated? Uh-huh. After coming back from San Bernardino, did you go back to work in '82? Yeah. I helped my folks run the Town Tavern as security, chief of security back then. And I had an apartment in Cadillac Arms. Diane McCarrow was living right next door to me. We got to be friends. But back there then I was still — see, Sam Cooke and — Someone like the Traneers, maybe? Okay. So this is a picture of you and Lou Rawls. Louie Rawls. When I bought my first house in Berkley Square, he rented a room from me, he and Sam Cooke. Now, why did they need long-term rooms? Weren't they just here to entertain and then they would go to another city? Yeah. They couldn't live out there on the Strip. But they would just rent a room while they were here for like a two-week engagement? Yeah. Yeah. I had a three-bedroom home in Berkley Square. So you would rent out just like a boarding house? You would rent out rooms while they were here in town? Well, one of my friends, Clyde, was an entertainer himself. And he knew them before. And so

13 that's how I got to know Lou Rawls and Sam Cooke, through him. They needed a place to stay and rehearse. So that's why you let them use your home. Yeah. Now, that was prior to going to San Bernardino? Uh-huh. But the night Sam Cooke got killed, Lou Rawls and I — all three of us were together. He got killed in Los Angeles. In Los Angeles, yes. I never will forget that. Lou Rawls — I was waiting for him to finish. He was working at this club, this hotel. And we waited for him to come out, get off, and we were talking about Vegas and the whole thing. So I went to my hotel because I was living in San Bernardino now. And I went to my hotel and came back from L. A. About four o'clock in the morning I get a call from Barbara Cooke to inform me that, you know, Sam Cooke had gotten killed. A lady at one of the motels or something like that killed him because he was messing around. So then we all — Lou Rawls and I, we thought he was going home to Barbara. Oh, when you left him that night? Uh-huh. I never will forget that. I can imagine. So tell me about your family life here. Did you have children? Yes. I've got a daughter. She's an attorney in L.A. And my son teaches school in San Bernardino. And they grew up here in Las Vegas? Yes. And they finished school in San Bernardino? Yes. How did the school system change from the time you were in school to the time your children were in school? Did you see any changes? Yeah. They were integrated, got to be integrated then. Now, when you went to school here, it was fairly well integrated, wasn't it? Yeah. Well, we didn't know — as kids we did not know anything about integration back then, not

14 until I guess in the 50s when the black people started moving from down South — Oklahoma, Louisiana, Texas and Mississippi. White people just weren't used to black people hanging out. And so — What do you mean, "hanging out"? Coming into the hotels and sitting beside them and enjoying the shows. Most of the black people were from back east, which was already integrated , and had come out here on vacation. They didn't know that you couldn't integrate. So it got to be so the white people just couldn't take it. So back in the 50s, that's when the NAACP took over. I'll never forget when they decided we're going to march. Were you here then? No. That was 1960 probably. Are you talking about when Dr. McMillan was here? Yeah. So they said that they were going to march. Were you one of the people who were getting ready to march? No. I was living in California. So in 1960, you had already moved to California? Yeah. So did you know about that from stories you had heard? Yeah. I was coming back and forth about every week to take care of my mom. Yeah. But I remember back in the 60s when I was spending most of my weekends in L. A. And I got to know Diana Ross and The Supremes. I used to hang out with them. I used to stay in the same hotel in L. A. that they were living in. So you would leave San Bernardino and spend the weekends in Los Angeles? Yes. Only 45-minute drive. But I got to know Diana Ross because we always ate at that little Norm Restaurant. It was in that restaurant that you could get the cheapest steaks in town. Boy, we would always hang out at Norm's. Now, where is Norm's located? Well, they've got several. But it was on Crenshaw.

15 So where were they performing at the time, Diana Ross and all of them? I can't remember where they hung out. But I know Diana Ross. She was a little skinny girl. I didn't want to deal with her. When she would come to Norm's, she never did dress just like the other girls in dresses. She would wear some little short jean, cut off. Well, after we got through eating at Norm's — it was a little Jewish restaurant, Norm's. She would go back to the hotel. Well, we would go other places and hang out. But she never did hang out with us.

I used to hang out with Eartha Kitt, too. But she was another one that never did hang out with the black people. Yeah. Eartha Kitt, she wanted to be white.

Did she want to be white or did she think that she could get ahead by being in the company of whites? Right. That's what. When you got back to Las Vegas, we had already had ~ blacks were going into politics at the time. Yeah.

Tell me about people like Woodrow Wilson. Well, Woodrow Wilson, he was — well, I think he was one of the businessmen. He built the first black bank.

This credit union? The credit union. Yeah. He was one of the first politicians. Tell me a little about Jimmy Gay. Do you remember him? Oh, yeah. Jimmy Gay, he taught me quite a bit back in the day when I was a teenager. He had come to town and he was running the West Las Vegas Recreation Center. And he used to know a lot of entertainers that would do him favors, like Nat King Cole. Oh, yes. That's when I was going to high school.

The West Las Vegas Recreation Center is torn down now. It's got a slab of concrete there. But the nursery school still exists. It used to be the USO. So you were talking about Jimmy Gay. Jimmy Gay did quite a bit for the young people back then. They had a swimming pool. And he took the girls that — he used to give beauty contests. And he had a swimming pool. And I had a

16 little Mickey Mouse camera. I still got it. I used to take the pictures of the beauty contestants. And then it became a business. Well, it didn't become a business until after I retired from the police department in San Bernardino. Then I went back to college at Valley College and took up photography because I knew I had to do something because I retired at an early age. And I knew I had to do something to stay busy. So I went back to college and took up photography at Valley College in San Bernardino. So tell me some of the people now who use your services. What kind of photographs are you taking these days? Well, I do the churches and the social clubs and politicians. Now, earlier you had talked about that plant in Henderson, BMI. I want to go back to that World War II era. It's Basic Magnesium. Incorporated. There was a housing area over there called Carver Park. Carver Park, yes. How much do you know about that? Do you know about that and maybe Lubertha Johnson? Well, that's where the black people working at the Basic Magnesium Plant had to live, in Carver Park in Henderson. And Larry Boulder, who had the Boulder Station named after him, I broke him in as a policeman after he got out of college. He was living in Carver Park. So he joined the police department along with you? Yeah. Now, tell me about working for Herman Moody. What was he like? Well, Herman was a pretty smart young man back in the day. He was the first motorcycle rider as a policeman. He joined after he got out of service back in the 40s or something like that as I understand. After he took me from the sheriffs department, he trained me as a policeman. The only thing that he didn't ever tell me was that you couldn't arrest a white man. Now, at that time here in Las Vegas the casinos were owned by families or the mob. Yes.

17 Did you know about that at that time? Yeah. When I was going to high school, I was working my way after school — that's before I joined the police department. And I was working at the Wilbur Clark Desert Inn because my mom was working there. So they all — the mob, they knew me from playing football and stuff and being an athlete. So they told me just about everything, you know, who was doing what to whatever. And that's when I find out that, man, you know, this is something else. I remember when they were telling me if they wanted somebody bumped off or a car blown up or an arm cut off or whatever, they had like a union hall back east in Chicago or New York where all they had to do was make a phone call. And they would send somebody anywhere they wanted and do a job and get paid and go back just like nothing happened.

So why do you think they would share that kind of information with you? I was a young football player. I wasn't a cop then. And I was working like a stagehand. When showgirls go on stage, come back, they didn't pay any attention to me, what color I was back then. But the showgirls would start stripping and then coming back to change to another uniform, then they would be buck-naked and they didn't pay no attention to me. But all I had to do was pick up the one uniform and put it in the rack because I knew them all and put Mary's and Jane's, her clothes, because they had to change into hers. That's what thing I got used to, taking pictures of naked women.

So you took photographs then as well? Not of them. No. Right now we're sitting in one of the rooms here at your church. Have you always been very active in the church? Oh, yeah. Yes. Ever since I was a teenager I've belonged to the Methodist church. And did you always come here? Is it called "Fame"? Do you guys call it "Fame"?

Well, you know, when I left Las Vegas and went to San Bernardino, I joined another Methodist church. But when I came back, you know, we had another Methodist church. It's on G and Adams.

Is it still there? Yeah. It's still there, but it's got another name. Now it's —

18 But anyway, it's no longer there. No. No. So when you got back, you became a member of First AME? Yes. Who is the minister at First AME now? Reverend Williams. Since I've been back, we've had four ministers. Methodist preachers, they have to go every year to see whether they're going to come back or not. So the head organization moves them around the country? Yeah.

Now, how did Reverend Bennett stay at Zion AME so long? Because he owned the property. He's one of the second largest black property owners over here. So you must be the first, right? You must be number one and he's number two? I don't know. No. My family went down the line there. There's another one — no. He's the second black. But I never knew who the first was. But I knew they had called his name once. I don't know whether he's still living or not. I forget his name. But he was the first and Bennett was the second. I don't know where my family came down in line. But we've got a lot of relatives here, quite a few.

So that's why he was the minister there for so long. After World War II ended, we went into a period that we call the Cold War. And they started testing the bomb here in Nevada out at the Nevada Test Site. So did a lot of people also come to Nevada to work there?

Yes. Yes, they did. So did you have friends who worked out there? Yes. Friends and relatives that retired out there. What did they tell you about working out there and about Area 51? Well, they really couldn't talk about it, you know. There were a lot of secrets that you swore you wouldn't talk about what's going on out there. All you had to do was work and come back home. Tell me how it was to leave Las Vegas and move to a place like San Bernardino. Well, San Bernardino was real quiet back there in the 60s. I understand it's not that way now. But

19 the crooks and the criminals from L.A. started moving out of L.A. to take over new territory. But at that point when you moved there, though, it was nice and quiet? Oh, yeah. Except I had one incident where some young white guys did damage to my car. That's the only incident that I had. And you were a police officer at the time? Yes. Yes. Earlier in the interview I asked you about what you think is going to happen to the Westside. The city wants to put high-rise buildings over here. Isn't a lot of the property also owned by churches? Right. So many of the churches, they're just shacks and houses because the city, they know they can bulldoze them down anytime they get ready because they're not qualified to be churches. They don't have parking lots. Right now you've got to have enough space to park to accommodate your members. You just can't park in front of somebody's house and property just like they do now. But my cousin Frank Hawkins, he's one of the richest contractors over here. So are you related to everybody? My goodness. I have so many kinfolks they would marry one another. So now, are you related to his mother, Daisy? Uh-huh. Yeah. So how are you and Daisy related? Her husband, Frank's daddy, he was married to my folks. That's how. So I see how that ~ okay. Wow. That's interesting. Tell me about downtown. Black people always ~ even when there was segregation, black people always went downtown for some of their shopping, to buy clothes and things like that. Well, you had no place to buy clothes over on the Westside. So that's where they had to go and buy clothes. They were welcome to take your money. Oh, yeah. Now, tell me about buying a car. Was that ever a problem? Oh, no. No. But I remember when I was a young boy and blacks used to go buy cars and go back to Louisiana or different places. As I understand, you know, that's where you got in problems;

20 driving a brand-new car because white people, they weren't used to that. Across country. Yeah. Because they had — they still had signs on the water faucets and bathrooms, white only. And the black people that were traveling back and forth had to go in the back door to order food at a restaurant. You couldn't go and sit down in the different places, especially in Texas. Texas was a big state then — I mean it's still a big state. And you start traveling through Texas back there, it would take you all day to get through Texas to get to Louisiana. Was there ever a problem with blacks buying Cadillacs? Oh, yes. I understand when I was a little boy that one of the — two of the black guys at the Shaw got their car taken away from them when they were going back to Louisiana because white cops would take the car. I understand they started using it for patrolling in black people's cars. Joe Shaw, he was working for some big white guy. I don't know if it was at the Horseshoe or wherever. But that's the only way he got his car back because he was working for a big — what's his — Binion? Benny Binion.

Now, I had heard that blacks had a problem at one time purchasing Cadillac Arms in Las Vegas. Was there ever any truth to that? The only thing I know was that you couldn't drive to the hotels if you were working at one of the hotels. If you drove the car to work, you would get fired. And the black people who had brand-new cars had to park their car a couple of blocks from the hotel and walk to the hotel. Wow. The civil rights movement did come here finally. Blacks began to have integrated housing and the schools were integrated and all of that. Did you play any role at all in that process? I was a pretty quiet person. The only thing was I helped my folks run the nightclub and then went to church. I didn't drink, smoke, whatever to get involved with anything. Were you ever involved with the NAACP? Yes. I was a member of the NAACP. Were you ever active?

21 No. Well, I was a member since I was a teenager. I remember — see, they had a place — the office was at D and Jackson. Is the Moss — what do you call it? Oh, where the Mosses are located now? Yeah. D and Jackson, that's not that far from the Native Sons Bookstore? The next block? Yeah. Yeah. Now, we heard a lot of talk of the EOB, the Economic Opportunity Board. Did you ever work with them or have anything to do with EOB? They owned quite a bit of property over there. In fact, where the drug abuse now on F and Washington, that's two blocks from where I live. It's closed down now. Then they had built a home-like apartment behind there for the women that were — but it closed down, too — where the women could live until they got straightened out. So like if you had a drug problem or something? Uh-huh. But as I pass by there now, it's up for sale. Where the Moulin Rouge is, next to the Moulin Rouge, they owned that property, too. But I understand that the Moulin Rouge is about to get rebuilt now because the guys are — it took them a long time to get enough money to do it. But there were some brothers from back east that bought it. So do you think that's a good idea to build it back in that same location? Yes. Yes. I was very skeptical that they were going to get a chance to do it because they were only open six months. After the city got integrated, it was taking too much business away from the mob that owned the hotels across the town and out on the Strip. So is that why you think it was closed? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, because all the white people — the entertainers would come over there and party from 12 o'clock at night until 12 o'clock in the daytime. And they were bringing all the guys from back east. The white people from back east, you know, they would follow these entertainers — Lena Home, Pearl Bailey, Cab Callaway. And they will bring all the white people over there. And they would gamble and drink until mid-day. But the mob was about money. They couldn't handle that. So they had to shut it down.

22 But the whole of Bonanza Road from the Moulin Rouge down, where they had a couple of little bars, also shut down. They were run by blacks. Yeah. Now, the Moulin Rouge did open off and on over the years, right? Yeah. But it wasn't open for gambling. It was just a dance hall and a bar. In fact, Sarann Knight was the last one that was involved with it. And she couldn't get enough money. Did you ever live outside of the Westside while you were living in Las Vegas? No. You always lived on the Westside? Yeah. My folks owned a lot of property. I had a home of my own besides my parents' home. After I moved to San Bernardino, I had rented my house in Berkley Square. But I had trouble collecting rent and stuff. So I finally sold it. Was there ever talk about the fact that the architect that did Berkley Square was a black man? Was that well-known? No. Okay. His name was Paul Williams and he designed the homes for Berkley Square. Oh, really? Yeah. So anything else you want to say or want to tell me that maybe we have skipped over about Las Vegas, about the Westside? Well, I think from the 40s up to now. I think it would be best if you could talk with Herman Moody. And thank you so much for this information.

23 INDEX

Bailey, Pearl, 3, 12, 13, 23 NAACP, 15,22 Barber, Howard, 7 Newton, Wayne, 3, 4 Barber, Shirley, 8 Basic Magnesium plant, 18 Rawls, Lou, 14, 15 Berkley Square, 14, 24 Ross, Diana, 16 Binion, Benny, 22 Boulder, Larry, 18 Tallulah, LA, 2 Town Tavern, 3, 4, 6, 8, 14 Cadillac Arms, 12, 14, 22 Callaway, Cab, 23 Westside, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12, 13, 21, 24 Carr, Mose, 2, 6 Wilson, Woodrow, 17 Carver Park, 18 Cooke, Barbara, 15 Cooke, Sam, 14, 15 Cotton Club, 12 Cove hotel, 11

Davis Jr., Sammy, 3 Desert Inn hotel, 12, 18

Economic Opportunity Board, 23 El Morocco, 12 El Rio, 8, 9 Gay, Jimmy, 17 Gibbons Liquor Store, 10 Green, Elijah, 4, 6

Harrison Apartments, 3 Hawkins, Frank, 21 Home, Lena, 23

Jackson Street Hotel, 11 Johnson, Lubertha, 18 Jones, Sheriff Glen, 8

Kitt, Eartha, 16, 17 Knight, Sarann, 8, 24

Larry Steel Dancers, 12

Moody, Herman, 1, 9, 10, 18, 24 Moulin Rouge, 4, 11, 23, 24

24 25