Parliamentary Debates (HANSARD)

THIRTY-NINTH PARLIAMENT FIRST SESSION 2013

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 22 October 2013

Legislative Assembly

Tuesday, 22 October 2013

THE SPEAKER (Mr M.W. Sutherland) took the chair at 2.00 pm, and read prayers.

ESPERANCE LEAD CLEAN-UP AND RECOVERY PROGRAM Statement by Minister for Transport MR T.R. BUSWELL (Vasse — Minister for Transport) [2.01 pm]: Before I make my brief ministerial statement, can I just thank the young man present in the gallery from John Calvin School Albany who did this magnificent etching of me! He clearly has a very artistic eye; he has the hair colour right as well, so well done! The Minister for Police also likes hers; she reckons she passed through that look at about age 14! I had better speed up. Today I present to the house information on the Esperance lead clean-up and recovery project. As the house is aware, in September 2007 a parliamentary inquiry showed that, as a result of emissions of lead from the Port of Esperance, residential and commercial premises in the town of Esperance, as well as the environment, had been contaminated by lead dust with consequential impacts on the community, including elevated blood lead levels in children. Following this government’s decision in early November 2008, the Esperance clean-up and recovery project was established and commenced its work in December 2008, with the Department of Transport as the responsible agency. The clean-up project was completed in 2012 and the sentinel monitoring program, finalised in 2013, has indicated that no contamination has reoccurred across the town site. The Esperance clean-up and recovery project was the largest environmental clean-up in Western Australia and Australia. The mission of the Esperance clean-up and recovery project was to undertake a comprehensive clean up, while the vision was to deliver that service with excellence. It is my great pleasure to let the house know that the Esperance clean-up and recovery project has been awarded several project management achievement awards by the Australian Institute of Project Management, including the prestigious Australian national project of the year. The Australian Institute of Project Management has recognised the project with these awards, which are for the outstanding management by the project team and the outstanding work by all those who were involved in this crucial project. This is indeed great recognition for the Esperance clean-up and recovery project and all of the co- operative effort and work that made the project such a success. By way of background, I would like to remind the house that the required cleaning was completed in March 2012 and achieved an overall client satisfaction rating of 94 per cent in the local community. There were 2 502 homes and commercial premises identified within the area of contamination, with a total of 2 320 premises consenting to the sampling program. The project tested more than 120 000 individual samples for lead and nickel contamination, and analysed these against the established guidelines. A total of 1 847 premises required some form of cleaning, which included various combinations of roof space, roof surface, gutters, rainwater tanks, soils, external surfaces, internal surfaces and carpet cleaning. Of these, 1 775 residential, commercial and public buildings consented to the cleaning program. In addition, the Esperance clean-up and recovery project removed contamination from public open spaces, including parks, playgrounds, the railway dam and catchment areas, where it was found to be above established guidelines. The total Esperance clean-up and recovery project expenditure was in the order of $25.7 million. I would like to thank all those who gave so tirelessly and professionally to make the Esperance clean-up and recovery project such a success.

MINE SAFETY ROADSHOWS — OCTOBER 2013 Statement by Minister for Mines and Petroleum MR W.R. MARMION (Nedlands — Minister for Mines and Petroleum) [2.03 pm]: The ninth in an annual series of mines safety roadshows has been presented by the Department of Mines and Petroleum’s Resources Safety division throughout October to coincide with National Safe Work Australia Month 2013, with the last workshop being presented in Perth today. This is one of DMP’s most important proactive activities for mines safety. Survey results and other feedback indicate that the roadshows are well received, that industry appreciates the opportunity for networking, and that they are expected to continue as annual events. Being specifically focussed on the minerals sector, this event allows the Resources Safety division of the department to inform the mining industry about current occupational safety and health concerns and developments from the perspective of the mines inspectorate. It is also an opportunity for industry to meet personally with inspectors and other staff in a positive environment.

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Meaningful communication has been identified as critical for the development of resilient safety cultures. There is also a need to raise awareness of the role of the safety regulator. Roadshow workshops allow DMP to consult with a broad cross-section of industry. The roadshow program seeks to raise awareness and share solutions, rather than provide professional development training. This year’s aims are to support resilient safety culture by encouraging operators to change their focus from “who” to “how” in site investigations; update industry on fatality findings and learnings, proposed legislative changes and safety performance; explore the hazards associated with mobile equipment, stored energy and working hours; and promote the use of higher-order controls in the hierarchy of controls. The audience typically comprises safety and health representatives, supervisors and managers, and others responsible for safety and health in the minerals industry. Over 500 industry representatives are expected to attend the 2013 roadshow series, with venues in Geraldton; Port Hedland, Karratha, and Newman in the Pilbara; Bunbury; Kalgoorlie; and Perth for metropolitan and fly in, fly out operations. MARGARET FEILMAN Statement by Minister for Planning MR J.H.D. DAY (Kalamunda — Minister for Planning) [2.08 pm]: I rise today to acknowledge the passing of Margaret Feilman, Perth’s first female town planner, who was highly regarded in the Perth community and particularly by the planning alumni. Dr Margaret Anne Feilman, OBE, forged a successful career as a planner, architect and landscape designer. I am aware that Dr Feilman is widely acclaimed for her role in planning the area of Kwinana, and I know that the member for Kwinana acknowledged this in a statement in Parliament last week. In 1938, Dr Feilman became the first woman to undertake an architectural cadetship in the Public Works Department of Western Australia and went on to be registered as an architect in 1945. Following time in Brisbane and Victoria, and after completing a post-graduate qualification in town planning at Durham University, Dr Feilman returned to Perth and opened her own practice. She was a founding member of both the Western Australian Town Planning Institute and the Western Australian branch of the National Trust of Australia. I acknowledge Dr Feilman’s contribution in the areas of architecture, town planning and conservation to both built and natural environments in Perth and surrounds. In recognition of her achievements, in 1989, Dr Feilman received an honorary doctorate in architecture from the University of Western Australia. In addition to her many professional achievements, Dr Feilman, along with her sister Patricia, established the Feilman Foundation, which provided grants for charitable work in the areas of the environment, youth, education, science and culture, and I understand this foundation continues to operate today. On behalf of this house, I acknowledge the significant contribution Dr Feilman made in the planning and architectural landscape of Perth, and I extend condolences to those who knew and loved her. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE NEW CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL — CAPACITY 634. Mr M. McGOWAN to the Premier: On behalf of the member for Mandurah, I acknowledge the students and teachers from Riverside Primary School who are in the gallery this afternoon. I also acknowledge, on behalf of the member for Albany, the students from John Calvin School Albany and thank them for the portraits that they have provided of a number of members in this place. The member for Kalamunda even has hair in his portrait, so it is a very good portrait. I also acknowledge the members for Victoria Park, Gosnells and Armadale, and the former member for Pilbara and Minister for Local Government, for walking 100 kilometres over Friday and Saturday on behalf of Oxfam. Well done. Premier, I note the generosity of Western Australians in pledging over $20 million to Telethon for children’s health. (1) Will the Premier now make the commitment to deliver the extra floor for the Perth Children’s Hospital that the state needs to meet the needs of children for years to come? (2) Why is the Premier ignoring the advice coming from people and organisations like Rosanna Capolingua, Rick Parish and the Telethon Adventurers, and the Australian Medical Association, that the taxpayer-funded new Perth Children’s Hospital will not be big enough? Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: (1)–(2) The Minister for Health answered this in great detail and repetitively. The government certainly took note of the concerns raised by members of the community about the number of beds and the size of what will be Perth Children’s Hospital. It took some time—a couple of months—to go back and look through all the assumptions, data and planning of that hospital and other metropolitan hospitals. It was

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on that basis the government decided not to put another level into the main ward block. The new hospital will have 48 more beds than Princess Margaret Hospital for Children. Its floor area will be 52 per cent bigger than Princess Margaret and the major key areas will be substantially bigger—the emergency department is 80 per cent bigger than Princess Margaret as it stands today. In addition, as part of metropolitan planning, and as the Minister for Health explained last week, there will be additional paediatric beds in Fiona Stanley Hospital, Midland Health Campus and possibly Joondalup Health Campus. That is part of the planning. At some stage, given the growth in population, if the point is reached and Perth Children’s Hospital needs to expand, the central core block has been designed to have a further four storeys, adding 48, plus 48, plus 48, plus 48 beds. Mr R.H. Cook: So was Princess Margaret Hospital, but no-one ever did it. It doesn’t happen. The SPEAKER: Member for Kwinana, I call you to order for the first time. Mr C.J. BARNETT: The central core building is designed to have a further four levels added when and if that is required, which will basically allow for another 200 beds to be added in the future. That is very significant. Again, as the Minister for Health said last week, at some stage the women’s hospital, King Edward Memorial Hospital, will be relocated next to the children’s hospital, and that will allow for very young babies to move from the children’s hospital into the women’s hospital. That is another 24 beds. This has been planned properly. In response to the initial comment made by the Leader of the Opposition, the raising of funds through Telethon was outstanding. I again thank the people of Western Australia for their generosity. Telethon is an extraordinary fundraising effort and the extent to which it is supported is almost unique around the world. That money will be well spent. As I announced at Telethon, the state government is also partnering with Telethon to each allocate $2 million to child health research. That is in addition to the state government donation on behalf of all Western Australians of $500 000. NEW CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL — CAPACITY 635. Mr M. McGOWAN to the Premier: The Premier says that he has listened, so why has the Australian Medical Association, the organisation of doctors in this country, indicated that the Premier has not listened to the concerns of medical professionals across this state on this important issue? Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: If the Leader of the Opposition wants to come into this place and advocate for the AMA, that is fine; do it— register as a lobbyist! Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr C.J. BARNETT: The issue for the AMA is to look at the policy, the critical issue that affects them and this state, and to support this government’s proposal for a new medical school in Midland as part of Curtin University. That is core business for the AMA. Over half of the doctors — Dr A.D. Buti interjected. Mr C.J. BARNETT: Members should listen. Dr A.D. Buti interjected. The SPEAKER: The member for Armadale is on notice. If he continues to shout out, he will be having an early rest. I call the member for Armadale to order for the first time. Mr C.J. BARNETT: The AMA obviously represents doctors in this state. A core issue for the AMA is to support that new medical school as part of Curtin University, and to have that in the eastern suburbs, in Midland. That will bring tertiary education into the eastern suburbs, which has been an oversight for so long in metropolitan Perth. It is a fact that in country areas over half of general practitioners—52 per cent, or something like that—are trained overseas; so Western Australia, a First World developed state, is poaching GPs from Africa. That is what we are doing. Mr D.T. Redman: It is disgraceful! Mr C.J. BARNETT: It is disgraceful. There is an urgent need for a new medical school in this state, even though there is a small one attached to Notre Dame University. Every other state, including South Australia, has two major medical schools. The state that is growing the quickest and has the greatest need for GPs does not have a second major medical school. The opposition should support the government on that and it should support tertiary education in the eastern suburbs of Perth.

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SCHOOL HEALTH NURSES 636. Mr C.D. HATTON to the Minister for Health: Firstly, on behalf of the member for Perth, I acknowledge here today the WA Rotary Club of Northbridge. I commend the minister on welcoming the first tranche of new school health nurses to be employed under the state government’s commitment to increase nurse and other health staff numbers in Western Australian schools. Can the minister please update the house on how many and what type of new school health staff have started at schools in term 4? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: I thank the member for the question. Today, we jointly had the pleasure of going to one of the schools in his electorate, Balcatta Primary School. The member kindly decided to invite some of the students there to lunch at Parliament House, which was very good of him. While we were there, we had a great time with not only the two students who welcomed us, but also two other students who are obviously just starting their years at the primary school, as some of our new school health nurses were doing some tests of both their eyesight and their hearing. This is part of the program that this government has started. It must be remembered that when we were in opposition, we started an inquiry by the Education and Health Standing Committee into the provision of services that look after children in this state, and that inquiry was continued subsequently during our first term of government. That committee found a serious deficiency in a range of areas in providing school health services— namely, child health services and the services provided by school nurses, speech therapists and the like. Initially, we provided just under $50 million for the extra services. In last year’s budget, we provided a significant increase to cover the child health nurses. In this year’s budget, we provided an extra $38 million for 155 extra school nurses across the state. Over 40 of those are in country areas and the rest are in the metropolitan area. The first 22 of those extra staff—it must be remembered that the budget was handed down only in August—have been appointed. Nineteen of them are school health nurses, one is a coordinator and two are doing speech therapy to look after the concerns we have about recognising very early those children in primary school who have speech difficulties. It is a great new program. We will be rolling out the $38 million over the next four years for 155 additional school nurses and speech therapists across the state to better look after the children in our schools. TOURISM — QANTAS MARKETING DEAL 637. Mr P. PAPALIA to the Minister for Tourism: I refer the minister to the $7.65 million marketing deal with Qantas announced on 11 September 2013. (1) What role did the minister play in negotiating the agreement? (2) On what date did the minister sign off on the agreement? (3) Did the minister hold shares in Qantas during any period of the negotiations and at the point the agreement was reached? (4) When and how did the minister dispose of any shares during that negotiation period? Mrs L.M. HARVEY replied: I thank the member for the question. (1)–(4) It is true that I did have a shareholding with Qantas. They were shares that were part of an employee bonus scheme, for which I applied during my 10-year stint working for Qantas at the Perth international and Perth domestic airports. It was a long time ago, actually. They have been declared as per the usual procedures on my parliamentary declaration and also in my interests register with the cabinet secretary. I had no hand personally in the negotiations for the $7.65 million joint marketing arrangement with Qantas. Most of those negotiations were conducted prior to my appointment as tourism minister. When I was appointed tourism minister, I immediately notified the cabinet secretary of a potential conflict of interest with my Qantas shares and was advised to dispose of them. I immediately took steps to dispose of those shares. The shares were disposed of, as I understand it, the day before the announcement to the market and to the public about that joint marketing arrangement with Qantas. I think that was on or about 11 September, and the finalisation of the share transaction was, as I understand it, the day before, and the cabinet secretary has been notified of the same. TOURISM — QANTAS MARKETING DEAL 638. Mr P. PAPALIA to the Minister for Tourism: I have a supplementary question. Does that mean the minister was holding shares at the time she signed off on the agreement?

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Mrs L.M. HARVEY replied: I think I made it very clear that I did not sign off on the agreement. The agreement and the negotiations occurred prior to my appointment as Minister for Tourism.

DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND WILDLIFE — FIREFIGHTING VEHICLES 639. Mr P.T. MILES to the Minister for Environment: Will the minister please update the house on the Department of Parks and Wildlife’s improvements to firefighting vehicle safety features and procedures following — Ms M.M. Quirk interjected. The SPEAKER: Thank you very much, member for Girrawheen. I call you to order for the first time. I do not want a running commentary on everything in this house. Mr P.T. MILES: Can the minister please update the house on the department’s improvements to firefighting vehicle safety features and procedures following the tragic Black Cat Creek bushfire in 2012? Mr A.P. JACOB replied: As I begin this question, I acknowledge the people and communities of New South Wales, particularly those who are out there fighting fires as we speak and all of those communities that have been affected. Our thoughts are with them. As the minister responsible for the Department of Parks and Wildlife, that situation brings into sharp focus the approaching fire season in Western Australia, in particular the safety of more than 800 staff who will be facing that fire season by addressing not only bushfires, but also prescribed burns in the lead-up to the season. The member mentioned the Black Cat Creek vehicle fire that occurred a little over 12 months ago. This is also an opportune moment to remember Wendy Bearfoot, a firefighter for the then Department of Conservation and Land Management, who tragically lost her life a few weeks after that event as a result of what happened on 1 November 2012. In response to that fire, the Department of Parks and Wildlife received 10 improvement notices from WorkSafe, which we have already discussed in this place. I am happy to report to the house that eight of those 10 improvement notices have been entirely completed, and on the ninth notice we are well underway in retrofitting 100 vehicles in the south west. This should be completed by the end of November this year, as I flagged early in the piece as the responsible minister. That ninth work notice includes work such as the installation of radiant heat shield curtains inside truck cabins and the provision of heat shielding to vital electrical and mechanical components to maintain operability and manoeuvrability of the vehicles in combating fires. The ninth improvement notice also includes works to provide easy access to storage for fire blankets and other personal protective equipment, as well as the replacement of exposed plastic components with metal components. The department has received an extension to September 2014 on the tenth work notice; however, we believe we can have this completed well in advance of that and potentially by the end of the coming fire season. The tenth notice relates specifically to water deluge systems. Obviously, compliance will depend to some extent on the engineering capacity to roll that out. I am happy to report to the house that we are receiving assistance to roll that out from the Victorian Country Fire Authority, which is at the forefront of implementing this technology. Other safety procedures that have been implemented include mandatory preseason training in areas such as mapping, radio operations, road closures, the interpretation of weather information and also responses to burn- over events should they occur. It is important to acknowledge that last year over 700 bushfires were attended as well as 125 prescribed burns, and we are ramping up the prescribed burning season for this year with 147 candidate burns approved for this year; indeed, there will be significant burning underway today. PERTH GLORY — COMPENSATION 640. Ms R. SAFFIOTI to the Minister for Sport and Recreation: I refer to the compensation paid by the government to Perth Glory Football Club for disruption to nib Stadium. (1) Given that the Department of Sport and Recreation recommended that the minister get cabinet approval for the compensation payment, and he told the Parliament last October that he would take the payment to cabinet, why did he not do that? (2) Why did the minister fund the compensation claim from the capital allocation for the project when his department questioned the appropriateness of doing so? (3) Will the minister explain why there is no mention of the compensation payment in the Department of Sport and Recreation’s annual report, the budget papers or other financial documents when other compensation payments have traditionally been reported in this way?

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Mr T.K. WALDRON replied: I thank the member for the question. (1)–(3) Yes, I made the decision on the compensation on the advice of the Department of Sport and Recreation. I cannot recall advice saying that it should be taken to cabinet; I did deal with Treasury during the process. I make the point that there was a claim for compensation for some $1.2 million; we agreed to pay compensation after going through a full assessment through the Department of Sport and Recreation. Payments were made for signage, corporate area loss and displaced members; no compensation was paid for reduced capacity. Yes, I guess it could have gone to cabinet, but I feel that as a minister I make decisions and judgements about whether matters should or should not go to cabinet. I have been dealing directly with Treasury, and I think the compensation and the process through the Department of Sport and Recreation was very thorough. The fact is that $1.2 million was asked for. I think we made a good decision, and I stand by that decision. PERTH GLORY — COMPENSATION 641. Ms R. SAFFIOTI to the Minister for Sport and Recreation: I have a supplementary question. I again refer to the question, which asks why the minister told Parliament he was going to take it to cabinet, but did not; why the minister funded the claim from the capital allocation after the department warned him against it; and the minister’s answer to the upper house, which was that Treasury did not give approval but was simply consulted in the early stages of the process. Mr T.K. WALDRON replied: I think that is just what I said—that we consulted with Treasury during the process — Ms R. Saffioti: No, you didn’t. Mr T.K. WALDRON: I thought I just said that; if not, I am saying it now: we consulted with Treasury during the process. As to the utilisation of the funds, if the member remembers, with nib Stadium we had a budget of about, I think, $96 million. We came in well under budget, and on top of what we originally were going to do, which was the eastern stand, we fully completed the southern stand and also did work on the northern bowl and replaced seats et cetera that were not in that budget. I think we managed that whole project well, and we paid the compensation out of that budget, as I have answered in answer to previous questions. BUSHFIRE SEASON — HOMEOWNER PREPAREDNESS 642. Mr F.A. ALBAN to the Minister for Emergency Services: In light of the approaching bushfire season, can the minister please remind the house of what homeowners can do to minimise the impact of a bushfire on their properties? Mr J.M. FRANCIS replied: I thank the member for his very timely question. This week, of course, is Bushfire Awareness Week. This is the time of the year when the government encourages every single person who lives in a bushfire-prone area to go and check, double-check and triple-check that they have done absolutely everything they can to prepare their house for the oncoming fire season. Of course, it is no secret that a number of challenges will be coming this fire season after the long wet period, and we just do not know what will happen with the weather. As I have said before, it is a combustible cocktail of human beings and Mother Nature. We only have to look at the tragedy unfolding in New South Wales to know that it is hard to foresee some of the weather conditions that may come, and Western Australia may well face similar weather conditions. The government and the Department of Fire and Emergency Services have released a booklet titled “Prepare. Act. Survive.” That outlines everything people who live in bushfire-prone areas can do to make sure they are doing everything they can themselves, because it is about sharing responsibility, not about shifting responsibility, member for Girrawheen. Ms M.M. Quirk: Shifting responsibility! Well answer the question! Mr J.M. FRANCIS: I heard the member for Girrawheen’s comments over the weekend and thought I would have a look at the Labor Party’s policy going into the last election on this issue and that of crew protection. I googled high, I googled low—I wore my little googling fingers out! There was nothing! The Labor Party did not even have a policy on crew protection going into the last election, member for Girrawheen! Several members interjected. Mr J.M. FRANCIS: Shocking! The member for Girrawheen’s commentary on this issue has been appalling! We are trying to make homeowners very aware that they have a shared responsibility with the government to do everything we can to protect people and lives during the upcoming fire season. This year alone we will have the

[ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] 5261 biggest lift capacity of aerial helicopters in the history of Western Australia. We have just approved an order for another $3 million Erickson Air-Crane for the bushfire season. To put that in context, in its last year in government, the Labor Party’s total spend on helicopter firefighting was only $1.3 million for the entire state for the entire bushfire season. Mrs M.H. Roberts: We invented helicopter firefighting. Mr J.M. FRANCIS: That is right, and I invented the internet—come on! Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr J.M. FRANCIS: The opposition invented helicopters—okay! The member for Midland invented the helicopter! Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr J.M. FRANCIS: We are going out of our way to do everything that we can to make sure the government and volunteer and career firefighters are ready and, as the Minister for Environment said, to make sure that his firefighters are ready. But there is a shared responsibility; people who live in bushfire-prone areas have to do their bit to make sure their houses are ready. As I said, a booklet is available on the Department of Fire and Emergency Services website that can be downloaded and read. I encourage everyone who lives in a bushfire- prone area to take some responsibility and make sure that they are doing their bit to prepare for the fire season. DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND WILDLIFE — BURN-OFF TARGETS 643. Mr C.J. TALLENTIRE to the Minister for Environment: I begin by acknowledging the people of New South Wales and the dreadful fires that are challenging the people and communities there. I refer to the government’s failure to meet burn-off targets. (1) How far behind is the Department of Parks and Wildlife currently with its essential burn-off targets? (2) What percentage of burn-offs specifically target areas that, if left unburnt, would pose a significant risk to human life and property? Mr A.P. JACOB replied: Speaking of New South Wales, I should have mentioned earlier that the government has contributed $250 000 to that appeal. (1)–(2) I thank the member for Gosnells for the question. Firstly, he refers to the burning targets of the Department of Parks and Wildlife. I thank him for the opportunity to address that issue, because the ones he refers to actually relate to last year’s burning targets, not the season that we are currently in. It is a very good opportunity to point that out. Mr C.J. Tallentire: Could you answer the question? The SPEAKER: Member for Gosnells! Mr A.P. JACOB: We have been very up-front about that. The government has readily acknowledged that although there was a transition to rolling out the WorkSafe improvement notices and the Keelty recommendations, there was a drop-off in the previous season’s prescribed burning target; however, we are only just now ramping up this current season’s prescribed burning program, and I look forward to updating the house about our progress in that space. Mr C.J. Tallentire: So you cannot give me a number for this year so far. The SPEAKER: Member for Gosnells! Mr A.P. JACOB: Following on from recent Liberal–National government initiatives, we have contributed an extra $32.9 million towards prescribed burning. This is something that the state government supports strongly as it recognises the importance of the prescribed burning program. This $32.9 million includes an extra 77 dedicated fire management officers, taking our full staff complement to about 800 fire staff operating in that space. Those new processes are now in place and, as I have already answered, equipment upgrades are well underway. Mr M. McGowan: That does not answer the question. Mr A.P. JACOB: It does answer the question. By the end of November this year, the south west fleet will be substantially upgraded.

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Mr M. McGowan: No, it does not. Mr C.J. Tallentire: I asked the minister about burning targets. Mr A.P. JACOB: The question was specifically about our prescribed burning targets and I am directly addressing that. Unfortunately for the member opposite, he was asking about data from 2012. Mr C.J. Tallentire: No, minister; I want to know for 2013. Mr A.P. JACOB: We have acknowledged that those burning targets fell well short, we have upgraded the fleet in preparation for this season and we are upgrading the final few trucks at a rate of about four per week, which should be completed by the end of November. The prescribed burning season is well underway, with 147 counted burns and, indeed, people are out there burning today. DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND WILDLIFE — BURN-OFF TARGETS 644. Mr C.J. TALLENTIRE to the Minister for Environment: I have a supplementary question. What percentage of the target for 2013 has been completed and how much of that burning is directed at protecting life and property? Mr A.P. JACOB replied: As I have already said, this fire season is only just starting. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Cannington! I am not going to allow any more interjections on this topic. Can the minister just answer the question as quickly as possible? Mr A.P. JACOB: I should apologise; I was operating under the assumption that members understood that the reporting periods are actually financial years, so we are only just commencing this one. As we come out of winter, we have had a very wet spring, as members would have noticed when they went outside. Weather conditions are only now reaching the point at which we can start tackling our prescribed burning program. Mr C.J. Tallentire: How much is targeted at areas where there are lives and properties at risk? The SPEAKER: Member for Gosnells, I call you to order for the first time. Mr A.P. JACOB: There are 147 prescribed burns on our candidate program; we are rolling them out now. Obviously, our first consideration is the protection of communities — Mr W.J. Johnston interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Cannington! Mr A.P. JACOB: — and property. We will be targeting — Mr M. McGowan interjected. Mr A.P. JACOB: Absolutely; it is the lives that matter. Incidentally, in previous years when there may have been a drop-off, we hit an exponential. There is a lot more involved in this than just a hectare target. It is not that simple. We accept a hectare target. I do not know what is the policy of members opposite on prescribed burning. They clearly do not even know what the reporting periods are. But we are ramping up into this season. SHARK ATTACK — PREVENTIVE MEASURES 645. Mr S.K. L’ESTRANGE to the Premier: Can the Premier please update the house on the Liberal–National government’s program to protect Western Australian beachgoers, particularly as I note the announcement for a new shark-proof area in the south west, plus funding for research into shark mitigation strategies? Mr C.J. BARNETT replied: The question is an important one as summer approaches. Members are aware that there have been five fatal shark attacks in Western Australia since September 2011. There have been a further three serious attacks, though not fatal, including one the other day near Esperance. In response to that, the state government has done a number of things; the most significant to this point has been increased aerial patrols and a switch from a fixed-wing aircraft to helicopters along metropolitan beaches and helicopter patrols during the school holidays over the south west, which is a popular tourist area. Also, we are sponsoring research into shark deterrence. I visited the University of Western Australia last week and saw some of the work being undertaken by the UWA Oceans Institute. One that I think was particularly interesting was the use of soundwaves into the ocean to replicate the sound of a killer whale, and perhaps that sound could be enough to deter a great white. It is interesting research. However, as summer comes, people are obviously concerned about safety at the beach. In that sense we have increased funding for equipment for surf lifesaving clubs and, of course, for a range of reasons, it is important

[ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] 5263 that people swim between the flags. Last week I was pleased to announce the first trial of a beach enclosure at Old Dunsborough Beach. The best way to describe it, basically, is as an underwater fence that is secured to the bottom of the ocean with floats holding it to the surface of the water. I was pleasantly surprised with two aspects of this trial. Firstly, the cost was quite acceptable at $165 000—probably less than I had anticipated. The other aspect is the size of the enclosure. It will extend 100 metres from the shore and then for 300 metres parallel to the shore. It is a large area, not just a kiddies’ swimming area, where people can do some serious ocean swimming, knowing they are protected. Assuming this proves to be successful, I anticipate it being repeated in other areas. It needs to be in areas of comparatively calm water. Potentially, Cockburn, Rockingham and Albany areas are suited to it. Unfortunately for the member for Churchlands and the member for Cottesloe, it is unlikely to be suitable in exposed beaches where there is heavy swell in winter, but I think on protected beaches it offers a lot. People who are particularly concerned will have that extra safety. In conclusion, I will explain a point that I was not aware of until about a year ago when I started to get involved in this issue. There are shark enclosures like this on the east coast; in fact, on the Gold Coast. In New South Wales and Queensland there is heavy use of shark nets. I had always mistakenly assumed that shark nets went from one point of land to another. They do not. They are probably 20 to 30 metres long. They sit, for example, on the ocean floor at Bondi and are devices for catching sharks and drowning them. Indeed, they inadvertently catch dolphins and other sea life. The beach enclosure that will be built at Dunsborough will not do that. It is stressed mesh so that no fish can get through it, but the water can obviously flow through it. Therefore, it will not damage marine life and it will provide protection for people swimming. I hope it is a success and that the government can replicate it in other areas of the state. POLICE — OFFENCES AGAINST PEOPLE — SANCTION RATES 646. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS to the Minister for Police: A year ago, Western Australia Police released figures showing that in 2011–12, there were 32 000 offences against people and that the sanction rate was only 54 per cent compared with a sanction rate of over 80 per cent in 2008. (1) Did the minister say last October that she intended to grill police chiefs on why so many crimes were going unpunished and get to the bottom of why the sanction rate had dropped? (2) Is she aware that recently released Western Australia Police figures show that the number of offences against people has now grown to over 35 500, with an even worse sanction rate of just 49 per cent? (3) Did the minister ever deliver the grilling and get to the bottom of the matter last year; and, if so, how does she explain that the sanction rate has now worsened by a further five per cent? Mrs L.M. HARVEY replied: I thank the member for the question. (1)–(3) In response to her question, yes, I did sit down with the Commissioner of Police and senior members of the police executive and ask them why there was a variance in the sanction rate around these offences. To be honest with the member, as part of the reform process we are looking at how sanction rates are calculated for various crimes and how police deal with a range of their reporting as part of the annual reporting process. Although total offences against the person have increased over the past few years, so has our population. There are other really good figures that police have been achieving. Mrs M.H. Roberts: Why has the sanction rate dropped? Why are you catching fewer offenders? The SPEAKER: Member for Midland! Mrs L.M. HARVEY: As an example, non-dwelling burglary in 2003-04—that is, burglaries — Point of Order Mrs M.H. ROBERTS: I have not asked a general question about police statistics; I have particularly asked why this sanction rate is falling and what the minister is doing about it. The SPEAKER: Minister. Questions without Notice Resumed Mrs L.M. HARVEY: Just to get to my point, there were nearly 18 000 offences in the non–dwelling burglary category in 2003-04. That has now come down to 9 000 offences. Total offences against property has come down by over 20 000 since 2003-04 in the context of a rapidly rising population in this state. In addition, we are increasing the number of police officers available to respond to all these offences. I expect that our sanction rates and our offence rates will improve over time as we better resource our police officers to deal with crime in this state.

5264 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013]

POLICE — OFFENCES AGAINST PEOPLE — SANCTION RATES 647. Mrs M.H. ROBERTS to the Minister for Police: I have a supplementary question. I note that my question was about offences against the person. Does a falling sanction rate, which is now less than half of all crimes against the person, not mean that more offenders are getting off scot-free under the minister’s watch in percentage terms, never mind any population increase? Mrs L.M. HARVEY replied: The answer to that is not necessarily. Mrs M.H. Roberts interjected. Mrs L.M. HARVEY: The member thinks it is funny. I do not think crimes against people are very funny. Most people on this side of the house treat crimes against people as very serious. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Midland, let the minister answer. Member for Cannington, I do not want to hear from you on this. Mrs L.M. HARVEY: We believe that offences against people are particularly serious. For new members to this house who may not understand the sanction rate, it is the rate of resolution of crimes that have been reported offences. The sanction rate captures a wide range of ways that offences are finalised, which basically means that it is a percentage of the successful convictions against the offences that are recorded. Mrs M.H. Roberts: That is wrong. It is not convictions. Mrs L.M. HARVEY: I had not finished my response, member for Midland. Mrs M.H. Roberts: You’re telling fibs. Mrs L.M. HARVEY: Why does the member not let me finish a sentence? The SPEAKER: Member for Midland! Mrs M.H. Roberts: You don’t know what you’re talking about. Mrs L.M. HARVEY: Mr Speaker, I would really love to finish my sentence. The SPEAKER: Carry on, minister. Mrs L.M. HARVEY: It also covers offences that are closed because there is unlikely to be a successful conviction—offences that are finalised and written off. Mrs M.H. Roberts: I haven’t even asked you this. You’re talking rot. Why don’t you answer what you’re asked? The SPEAKER: Member for Midland! Mrs L.M. HARVEY: A range of work needs to be done on the way in which police report the management of offences. We are interrogating that as part of our reform program. TRAINING SECTOR 648. Ms E. EVANGEL to the Minister for Training and Workforce Development: Can the minister please explain what steps the government is taking to ensure our training sector is well placed to take advantage of the new opportunities that will arise through the government’s reforms of vocational training and education? Mr D.T. REDMAN replied: I thank the member for Perth for her question today and, of course, for her interest in training. I certainly have attended one or two occasions at which she has supported the training sector on a range of initiatives in her electorate. Mr D.A. Templeman interjected. The SPEAKER: Sorry, thank you very much, minister. Member for Mandurah, I hope you are in no discomfort there, but please stop making a noise! I call you to order for the first time. Mr D.T. REDMAN: The house will know that the government has introduced a new program called Future Skills Western Australia, which is part of a national reform package to which we are signatories. Both in earlier debates and at question time, I have already mentioned the fact that we are rolling out this entitlement model for around 40 per cent of the training sector in Western Australia, which gives an entitlement to training for over 600 qualifications that come under the priority qualifications list. Part of this initiative means that it will be market-driven and student-centred. If we move to a methodology whereby the resources will go with the

[ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] 5265 student, then depending upon which facility the student attends, whether it be a private provider or a state training provider, the resources will go with that student. It means that in the marketplace we will see some innovative, creative strategies by those training providers to attract students. It is important to me that state training providers in Western Australia are not constrained and shackled by government bureaucracy in being able to capitalise on what this opportunity presents. Therefore, at the same time, I have also put in place a review of training in Western Australia to largely look at three things. The first is the level of autonomy of state training providers, and whether there is scope to give them more autonomy to capitalise on some training opportunities in a commercial sense, utilising some creative strategies for supporting industry in Western Australia. Secondly, the government will look at the sustainability of the regional training providers to ensure that we can still grow and support regional training capacity in Western Australia. Thirdly, the review will look at the pathway or supply chain of information from industry through to government decision-making. We need to have an efficient process for understanding industry needs to ensure we package that up in an appropriate setting in terms of the deployment of resources we make at a cabinet level to support industry needs in Western Australia. The review is timely. I have asked Professor Margaret Seares to undertake the review. She will report by the end of April next year. The review will support a range of things that are in the terms of reference. I am happy to table the terms of reference for those members opposite who have not seen them. Professor Seares will report on a range of strategies to support the training sector in Western Australia, particularly given the recent changes to which we are signatories at a national level. Obviously, part of the review will be the fee structure the government has put in place in the recent budget. There will be a debate pretty soon about that, and I am very supportive of the clear position that the state government has taken. It is very important that Margaret Seares gets a chance to listen to all the views out there from the industry and training sectors, both public and private, to ensure that those views are put forward. In closing, I table the terms of reference for members opposite. [See paper 1086.] DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH STAFF — GIFTS AND BENEFITS — CORRUPTION AND CRIME COMMISSION REFERRAL 649. Mr R.H. COOK to the Minister for Health: I refer the Minister for Health to the hundreds of thousands of dollars in benefits received by Department of Health staff from private medical and pharmaceutical companies between November 2012 and June this year, and the referral to the Corruption and Crime Commission of 108 potential instances of inappropriate gift acceptance. (1) Is it not true that most of the gifts the CCC will investigate will be sponsored travel to conferences? (2) What has the minister done to ensure doctors can safely accept legitimate sponsored conference travel? (3) What level of blame does the minister now take for failing to stop this potentially improper or inappropriate practice and placing the careers of these health professionals in jeopardy? Dr K.D. HAMES replied: (1)–(3) I take all responsibility, as I should as a minister, but, at this stage, none of these people has been found to have done anything wrong. Although some of those issues, which were largely just a matter of reporting, are being investigated, I am not aware that anyone has been found to have inappropriately received any gift or gratuity. We have been through this at length; members will recall that years ago I was concerned about the large amount of travel sponsored by outside organisations being undertaken and I referred that to the Public Sector Commissioner to go through. He did that and found that nothing inappropriate was being done, but suggested some tightening of the rules around declarations of interest and the like. Subsequently, the auditor again went through all of those and again found that no individual had acted inappropriately and recommended further changes, which have been implemented. I am comfortable — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Dr K.D. HAMES: — that those members who receive sponsorships for travel are doing so appropriately. I will wait, as we all will, for the outcome of any inquiry. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH STAFF — GIFTS AND BENEFITS — CORRUPTION AND CRIME COMMISSION REFERRAL 650. Mr R.H. COOK to the Minister for Health: I have a supplementary question. What has the minister done, other than sit on his hands, to ensure that these doctors can appropriately access sponsored conference travel?

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Dr K.D. HAMES replied: We have made sure that we have put in place the recommendations of the Public Sector Commissioner and the Auditor General to ensure that we do it the correct way. Mr M. McGowan: Not very effectively. Dr K.D. HAMES: So the member says.

TOURISM — QANTAS MARKETING DEAL Question without Notice 637 — Correction of Answer MRS L.M. HARVEY (Scarborough — Minister for Tourism) [2.51 pm]: Under standing order 82A, I would like to provide further information to my answer. Just to be really clear, the agreement between Qantas and the chairman of the Tourism WA board was signed shortly after I became minister, but I did not participate in negotiations and I am not a signatory to that agreement. Several members interjected. Mrs M.H. Roberts: You did sign it! Mr T.R. Buswell: No, she didn’t. Mrs L.M. HARVEY: Mr Speaker, just to be really clear, because I do not know if Hansard recorded that over the shouting from the member for Midland, I did not participate in the negotiations, nor am I a signatory to the agreement. WA PLANNING COMMISSION — PROPERTIES ACQUIRED Question on Notice 885 — Correction of Answer MR J.H.D. DAY (Kalamunda — Minister for Planning) [2.52 pm]: Under standing order 82A, I wish to provide some corrected information to an answer to a question that was published on Tuesday, 6 August in tabled paper 485 that relates to properties acquired by the Western Australian Planning Commission in 2012–13. There was some slightly incorrect information in the previously tabled paper; therefore, I seek to table the correct information, which has been provided to me by the Western Australian Planning Commission. [See paper 1087.]

PERTH GLORY — COMPENSATION Question without Notice 640 — Correction of Answer MR T.K. WALDRON (Wagin — Minister for Sport and Recreation) [2.52 pm]: I wish to clarify the answer I gave to the member for West Swan. I said that the Perth Glory compensation request was for $1.2 million; it was actually $1.012 million. I read it wrongly.

WILSON — LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOUNDARIES Petition MR W.J. JOHNSTON (Cannington) [2.53 pm]: I have a petition signed by 471 people that has been certified as complying with the standing orders. It is on the behalf of the Wilson Residents and Ratepayers Association. It states — To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of the Legislative Assembly of the Parliament of Western Australia in Parliament assembled. We, the undersigned, say that the proposed changes to local government boundaries will destroy the suburb of Wilson. The proposed change will not only divide our suburb but destroy the character of the area. A divided suburb of Wilson, as such a small component of much larger areas, will not be adequately represented in either of the proposed local government areas. Now we ask the Legislative Assembly to:

• Keep the suburb of Wilson intact

• Preserve the City of Canning (in its current form), and

• If the City of Canning cannot be preserved, place the entire suburb of Wilson into the new South Perth/Victoria Park municipality. [See petition 56.]

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QUINNS ROCKS — COASTLINE DEGRADATION Petition MR J.R. QUIGLEY (Butler) [2.54 pm]: I have a petition signed by 2 400 signatories that has been duly stamped and authorised by the Clerk of the Assembly. The petition reads — To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of the Legislative Assembly of the Parliament of Western Australia in Parliament assembled. We, the undersigned, say That the ongoing degradation of the coastline at Quinns Rocks is serious and dangerous and a long term strategy needs to be implemented as a matter urgency to stop the erosion before the road and residences are seriously affected. Now we ask that the Legislative Assembly. Provide for proper oceanographic research for a long term solution and the results of the research be implemented urgently. [See petition 57.] GREYHOUND RACETRACK — SOUTH WEST Petition MR M.P. MURRAY (Collie–Preston) [2.55 pm]: I have a petition signed by 161 people, which conforms with the standing orders of the house. It states — TO THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER AND MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF THE PARLIAMENT OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA IN PARLIAMENT ASSEMBLED. We, the undersigned, say that Greyhounds WA and Racing and Wagering WA need to immediately undertake scoping and implementation studies to facilitate the development of a greyhound racing track in the South West. The study should include a location for a race track, along with data that would identify the number of breeders, owners and trainers in the greater South West region with a view of growing the industry in Western Australia. We now ask the Legislative Assembly to instigate such a study as a matter of urgency. [See petition 58.] URANIUM MINING — BAN Petition MR D.J. KELLY (Bassendean) [2.56 pm]: I have a petition signed by 1 236 petitioners in respect of banning the mining of uranium in Western Australia. The petition has been certified as complying with the standing orders. It reads — To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of the Legislative Assembly of the Parliament of Western Australia in Parliament assembled. We, the undersigned residents of Western Australia are opposed to uranium mining. We ask the Legislative Assembly to recognise the unacceptable risk to the community and the environment posed by uranium mining and to immediately reinstate the ban on uranium mining in Western Australia. Your petitioners as in duty bound, will ever pray. [See petition 59.] PAPERS TABLED Papers were tabled and ordered to lie upon the table of the house. BILLS Notice of Motion to Introduce 1. Workforce Reform Bill 2013. Notice of motion given by Mr C.J. Barnett (Premier). 2. Barrow Island Amendment Bill 2013. Notice of motion given by Mr C.J. Barnett (Minister for State Development).

5268 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013]

3. Ports Legislation Amendment Bill 2013. Notice of motion given by Mr T.R. Buswell (Minister for Transport). 4. Mental Health Bill 2013. Notice of motion given by Dr K.D. Hames (Minister for Health). LOCAL GOVERNMENT AMALGAMATIONS Notice of Motion Mr D.A. Templeman gave notice that at the next sitting of the house he would move — That this house condemns the Barnett government for its plan to force local government amalgamations and supports the outcome of the City of Vincent referendum in which 77 per cent of people voted against forced amalgamations. KIMBERLEY — GOVERNMENT SUPPORT Notice of Motion Mr F.M. Logan gave notice that at the next sitting of the house he would move — That this house condemns the Barnett government for its failure to support the people in the Kimberley, including but not limited to — (a) a failure to comply with its own Buy Local and regional business preference policies; (b) a failure to act on Department of Housing commitments; (c) not supporting local employment in administering the national Indigenous housing stage 1 funding rollout; (d) cuts to schools; and (e) a failure to adequately address mental health issues in the Kimberley. TRAINING SECTOR FEES Matter of Public Interest THE SPEAKER (Mr M.W. Sutherland) informed the Assembly that he was in receipt within the prescribed time of a letter from the Leader of the Opposition seeking to debate a matter of public interest. [In compliance with standing orders, at least five members rose in their places.] MR M. McGOWAN (Rockingham — Leader of the Opposition) [3.00 pm]: I move — That this house condemns the Barnett government for its attacks on the training sector and, in particular, putting up fees on ordinary families. One of the issues that came out of the state budget that I do not think was properly scrutinised in Western Australia and the effects of which have not been properly felt or understood by Western Australian families is the increase in the cost of undertaking training in Western Australia. One of the great things about our state is that over a long period Western Australians who wanted to undertake training by way of a traineeship, apprenticeship or course through the training sector such as TAFE could undertake that course or training at an affordable cost. Ordinarily this training is undertaken by a young school-aged person or school leaver, but not necessarily a young school-aged person or school leaver. Their parents or family who might need to pick up the cost of that training should be able to do so without a heavy burden being placed upon them. I regard this as a birthright for Australians—in particular, Western Australians. If someone is born here and they grow up in this country or they come to this country and become an Australian citizen, they are entitled to a decent education or training to ensure that they can be the best that they can be and that they can undertake the roles and jobs in society that make them the best they can be. One of the fantastic things about this state is that the training courses provided by the TAFE sector and other training providers have been affordable for ordinary families over a long period. A working or middle­class person in our community has the confidence in knowing that when their son or daughter leaves school, their son or daughter will be able to undertake training, gain a traineeship or apprenticeship or just do a course through the TAFE or training sector and they will be able to afford it without breaking the bank. This is not the United States of America. We do not live in a community where we have to open an account on the birth of our children so if they want to study 18 years hence, we have scrimped and saved for all those years so they can study. One of the great things about our society is that we allow people from whatever background, whatever their circumstance, whatever their race or wherever they live in society to undertake training or study.

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We often focus and are always talking about university study, whether it is at a university in Midland or the like. They are great initiatives. It is often forgotten in this debate that the tens of thousands of Western Australians who undertake training or do a course through the TAFE sector will be impacted by the changes this government is putting in place. I think it has slipped through to the keeper and I think the government is happy about that. Next year this government will put up enormously the cost for ordinary people to go to TAFE. It is saying that it is part of a cost-recovery mechanism, part of a new funding mix—future skills or the like. I say that it is just a cash grab on ordinary families—a cash grab on people who have an expectation that their son or daughter can undertake training without a massive impact on the family budget. Young people from my electorate and from many of the electorates of members in this house, such as the electorates of the members for Kwinana, Cockburn, Girrawheen, Collie–Preston and Midland, are more likely to undertake a training course or go to TAFE than attend university. It is more likely that that will be the trajectory of their career. To put up the cost of that life decision so dramatically on those families and not think that there would be an impact, and brazenly say that this is all just part of a new funding model, betrays those families who live in those communities and have that expectation for their children. I do not think the Liberal Party, the National Party and the people of Western Australia fully understand what this will mean for people across the state. The minister pre-empted today’s debate in question time indicating that this was all about a new model and future skills: it was affordable, it would work out okay in the end, and it was all market-oriented and market- driven. What is market-driven about someone undertaking a certificate IV in youth work, which is one of the more poorly paid jobs for graduates? These are the people who counsel young people who might have drug issues and who prevent people from committing suicide. These are the roles that these people undertake. Someone undertaking a certificate IV in youth work currently pays $621 a year to do so. By 2017, it will cost $4 235 a year. That is an increase of 500, 700 or 800 per cent in the cost of undertaking that course to become a youth worker. We are lucky to get people to do youth work now. We should be thanking people who do that course. They are the people who walk around shopping centres on a Thursday night with the disengaged children, trying to talk to them and get them to engage in society so they do not cause all sorts of problems and disruption. These youth workers work for St Vincent de Paul or the local youth centre, working with young people who are disengaged and problematic. They are compassionate and decent people. This government is discouraging people from undertaking these roles. It is making it more difficult for people to undertake these courses of study. I turn to another course—a certificate IV in alcohol and other drugs work. Let us think about what the job that one is likely to get after doing that course entails. One would work with organisations such as Alcoholics Anonymous, the Palmerston Association or some of those organisations that help people with drug issues. That is what they do for their career. Can members imagine how hard that would be? Let us also think about the fact that those jobs, particularly in the non-government sector, are not highly paid. These workers would be paid only a small fraction of what anyone in this house gets paid to undertake the work we do. Guess how much these course fees will go up? They will rise from $621 a year now to $4 296 a year in 2017. Therefore, to undertake that course of study, again, people will be faced with a 500 per cent plus increase. Then we go to two of the doozies. First, I refer to a certificate IV in disability. Let us think about the people who have done those courses. Have members ever been to a respite centre at which there are people in wheelchairs who need assistance to be taken to the toilet or people lying on stretchers or gurneys who need assistance with the most basic of human functions? For someone who does a certificate IV in disability, that is likely to be where they will end up working. We need people in those roles. What else do we do? How does society function without these people? Such people are currently paying $621 a year for their study, and that will go up to $4 235 a year, which is a 581 per cent increase. Second, to study to be an enrolled nurse currently costs $1 862 a year. That will go up to $8 047 a year. This has all been lost. The minister uses language like “market-driven” and “student-focused” and that all sounds great. Who would not want to be student focused? I am student focused. I think everyone is student focused! But an 800 per cent increase in fees to $8 000 a year to become an enrolled nurse is not student focused. Enrolled nurses work in aged-care homes. All of us, I hope, have spent some time in aged-care homes in our electorates and have seen the sorts of jobs people need to do in those places, such as cleaning up and assisting with people who have died; counselling family members after a relative has died; and all the associated work with someone who is extremely old. Enrolled nurses play that role. Nursing homes cannot get people now. Nursing homes in my electorate are trying to get staff, but they cannot get people; they end up with people who are not totally suitable or with gaps in staffing. What does this government do? It puts up training costs from $1 000 a year to $8 000 a year. What sort of government does something like that and couches it in this language that somehow it improves the system? When I was the Minister for Education and Training from 2001 to 2008, the number of people undertaking traineeships and apprenticeships more than doubled, and it has gone up another 4 000 people since then. The system has been successful over a long time. It has its flaws; we do not have as many people in apprenticeships in traditional trades, but more than 40 000 people are undertaking apprenticeships and traineeships in Western

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Australia. We have done a good job, but there is no doubt that we need to do better. The number one productivity issue that the Chamber of Minerals and Energy of Western Australia, the Chamber of Commerce and Industry of Western Australia and the trade union movement talk about is the need for more people in training. They need more people to undertake courses to do the jobs that they need done. That is the number one productivity issue those organisations talk about when we meet with them. They need properly skilled, properly trained staff to carry out the roles they need carried out. That is what they talk about. I do not blame them. It is an important issue. We, as members, are all employers. We know the value of good, well-trained staff, but what does the government do? It puts up the cost of courses in which we desperately need people. From what I have seen, they are often the sectors in which it is hard to recruit people, such as disabilities, youth work and enrolled nursing. We need people to enrol in courses for those jobs in the community that a lot of people do not want to do. What does the government do? It lifts the cost for some young person or mature age person from an electorate such as mine to undertake that training. The government is discouraging people from doing these courses and I think people need to know. The minister can say that it is market oriented and student focused and about cost recovery. That is his argument. I will tell the people out there who want to do these courses, or who have kids or mature age relatives who want to do these courses, that this is about ripping more money out of their pocket through a system that has had bipartisan support for a long time and has been affordable for ordinary families across the community. All this comes into effect in 2014. Despite its record revenue over the past years, the government has managed to lose Western Australia’s AAA credit rating and, as a consequence, both young people and mature age students will suffer. MR F.M. LOGAN (Cockburn) [3.14 pm]: The last time I was on my feet in this house to talk about the increase in TAFE fees and its impact on apprentices, the Minister for Training and Workforce Development asked me whether I support a wage increase for apprentices. Because I said yes, he dismissed that statement of mine as being a contributing factor to apprentices not being taken on. It is not the changes that this minister and this government is making to TAFE fees; it is the wage increases to apprentices. This minister quoted the Fair Work Commission decision as an example of why apprenticeship numbers—we were talking about the construction industry in particular—were falling — Mr D.T. Redman interjected. The SPEAKER: Minister! Mr F.M. LOGAN: Let us go to the full bench decision. This is the first wage increase for apprentices in 40 years. This is the wage increase that this minister said should not have been paid. This is the decision — The Full Bench decided that the rate for a first year apprentice who has completed Year 12 schooling will be 55% of the C10 award rate … being $398.50 per week or $10.49 per hour. This minister said it was too much and should not be paid. I asked him whether he supported this wage increase and he said no. Mr D.T. Redman interjected. Mr F.M. LOGAN: The minister is a disgrace to his job and this state. The impact on apprenticeship fees is a disincentive to people taking up apprenticeships and to growing our state’s economy. I know, the minister knows and people in this house know that there is already a shortage of tradespeople in certain trades. This minister is putting up apprenticeship fees and saying that that is fine. It is not fine. As I tried to explain to this minister during the previous debate in this house—who does not seem to take anything into account about his own portfolio, because he knows it all and he cannot be told—apprentices pay apprenticeship fees. Most bosses ask their employees to pay the fees up-front and then they reimburse them based on whether they pass. Mr D.T. Redman interjected. The SPEAKER: Minister! Mr F.M. LOGAN: The minister should listen and he might learn something. I know the minister has never been out there in industry, but if he listens, he will learn something. The apprentices pay up-front and the bosses reimburse them based on whether they pass their course. That is the way it goes. Those fees are normally then paid by the parents of the apprentices. That is why the Leader of the Opposition has talked about the impact on families. The families have to pick up the tab. Members should remember that the cost of apprenticeship training is going from $626 to $2 151 next year and to $3 706 in 2017. That will have a significant impact on families and it is a significant disincentive for people going into apprenticeships. The full bench gave a very, very small wage increase—the first in nearly 40 years—to apprentices to try to attract people into industries and to incentivise people to take up trades. What does this minister do? Under the guise of the national training agreement, he puts up fees for TAFE, which will have the opposite impact on the work that has been done by the full bench of the Fair Work Commission. He is undermining the work of the full bench of the Fair Work

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Commission and industry. Industry wants these apprentices and to attract these people into their workplaces, yet this minister is stopping that and is disincentivising it. As the Leader of the Opposition said, it is not just apprentices; it is also people who are needed in aged care, people who want to go into enrolled nursing and people who want to work with the disabled and the handicapped. Their fees are going up significantly. The statements made by the minister about increases in TAFE fees give members an idea of where he is coming from. When he was asked about those increases in TAFE fees, he said, “Well, this means that those students will appreciate their studies more and will take them more seriously.” That is his answer to those huge increases in TAFE fees: “So what? Students will take their coursework more seriously, and they’ll appreciate that study.” What a pompous, arrogant, dismissive silvertail attitude from this minister. What a pompous attitude! It is a reflection of the fact that he has never, ever got his hands dirty or been out there, talking to industry and understanding the demands of industry. It is an arrogant, silvertail attitude that is undermining training and the apprenticeship system in Western Australia. MR D.T. REDMAN (Warren–Blackwood — Minister for Training and Workforce Development) [3.21 pm]: I thank members opposite for bringing on this debate. It is interesting that it is almost an exact replica of the previous motion that was brought to this chamber during private members’ business. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Albany, if you want to talk, there is plenty of time left. I call you to order for the first time. Mr D.T. REDMAN: I want to make a couple of points. I know I have made points before in this place about what is being introduced. There are national reforms in place moving to this entitlement model, and the Leader of the Opposition in his contribution to the debate talked about a birthright. The entitlement model is exactly that: there is an entitlement to training. That component of training in WA is uncapped, so if members opposite want to argue about changes being a birthright in Western Australia, we are introducing, in a very managed way, an entitlement to training that is exactly the point that the Leader of the Opposition made. I challenge his argument that the government does not support training in Western Australia. The other point, which is obviously critical to the opposition’s argument, is the change in the fee structure. Certainly, we introduced a change to the fee structure and I will make some points about that. I might add that that is in black and white in the state budget; it was not brought up by the shadow Minister for Training and Workforce Development during the budget reply debate or during the budget estimates hearings. In fact, I proactively put it out in a media release on the Thursday of the budget estimates hearings week. It has taken the shadow Minister for Training and Workforce Development a month or two to debate the issue that he says is so critical to the training sector in Western Australia. I will make a number of points about the change to the fee structure. The first point is that it comes off a very, very low base. A cap has been in place for training for some time, and until the end of 2013 the cap will be about $1 250. When the Leader of the Opposition talks about fees for a six-month course—I think he quoted $600 or so—that is obviously half the fee cap. That cap has been going up by CPI for some time, and we have taken away the cap, but we argue that it is coming off a very, very low base. I will also make this point: of all the subsidised training that occurs in Western Australia, until the end of this year, no student undertaking training in Western Australia will pay any more than $2 000; in fact, it is capped at $1 250, as I said. In respect of previous training levels and what people are doing, in 2014, 92 per cent of those engaged in training will be paying $2 000 or less for their training. As we look at the glide plan of increases—which is in the state budget; we are not hiding that—in 2017, 87 per cent of all training in Western Australia will be $2 000 or less. Therefore, I think a sound point to make is that it is coming off a very, very low base and it is not unreasonable to say that the fee component of the regulated cost of training is being increased, but I think it is a fair increase. The state government’s aim is to try to maintain the level of subsidised positions in Western Australia. If we look at last year’s budget, we see that there is a reduction in funding at the end of this financial year, so I had some choices. I could either say, “Let’s reduce the amount of subsidised training and support the Leader of the Opposition’s case to say that therefore we will have a reduced level of training”, but it would be very highly subsidised, to the point that it currently is; or I could say, “Let’s introduce a change in fees to maintain the level of training in Western Australia.” The government chose to put in place a fee structure that will enable both the level of training and the number of places that are subsidised in Western Australia to be maintained at a fair level to support the economy. I stand by the point—the shadow minister seems to take heed of this—that by putting an increased fee structure in place, there is more buy-in from the student. I think that is a fair point; people should make very careful choices about the training that they do. We are introducing an uncapped entitlement model for those who choose to study in the areas that support the priority industry qualification list. Several members interjected.

5272 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013]

The SPEAKER: Member for Kwinana, I call you to order for the second time. Mr D.T. REDMAN: This means that there is a very direct relationship between industry’s identified priority areas of qualifications that are needed, support of the entitlement model and, of course, a reduced impact on fee structures. We are using the fee structure as an incentive to choose those areas that support the state’s needs. I think that is sound. If the opposition wants to argue that we should not use a fee structure to support those areas of need in Western Australia — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Warnbro, I call you to order for the first time. Mr D.T. REDMAN: I think it is an important principle to try to support, through a reduced increase in fees, those areas that industry sees as a priority. Of course, we are biting off a piece of the entitlement this year of around about 40 per cent of training, and I think that is a fair position. Something else that I think is relevant to this debate are the changes that have happened at a federal level. They are income-contingent loans—I think they are called VET FEE–HELP—for diplomas and above. It is a similar model to what happens at tertiary level with HECS fees. Those who choose to study diplomas and above are able to access income-contingent loans and there are eligibility requirements for that. Students can borrow funds to support their training, and the payback program threshold applies when their income levels reach $50 000. I make the point that the right policy setting — Mr R.H. Cook interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Kwinana, I call you to order for the third time. I do not want to hear from you again in this debate. Mr D.T. REDMAN: The right policy setting—the Leader of the Opposition made this point—is that areas of need ought to be supported more, and I think the fee structure does that. We have an income-contingent loan available to those who choose to study diplomas and above. They have access to the resources to do that, which means that, presumably, if they see it as being important, they will be able to take it up and do it. It will not be a barrier to entry to training, as the Leader of the Opposition claims. There will also be, as there is currently, a 50 per cent concession for those students who are eligible for Centrelink payments, which will halve their fees. That concession will remain in place, which means that the policy setting is still about targeting those in high need. I make the point that we have very, very carefully thought through this policy setting; it is not something that we have just jumped at. We have thought very, very carefully about the settings that are in place. I also make the point—I have made it right from the time of the announcement of this policy; it is not something I have hidden in any way—that, because we are moving to a market-driven student-centred model, what we do not know — The SPEAKER: I call the member for Warnbro to order for a second time. Mr D.T. REDMAN: We do not know what the behaviour in the marketplace will be. We do not know whether there will be a choice to go into particular areas and what areas of demand might emerge. We do not know how price sensitive some of those market areas are. That is the point the Leader of the Opposition makes. It is a valid argument, because we are moving to a model where the resources go with the student and there is market focus on that. Mr M.P. Murray interjected. The SPEAKER: I call the member for Collie–Preston to order for a first time. Mr D.T. REDMAN: It is important that what is happening in the marketplace is monitored from the start of next year. I have insisted that the Department of Training and Workforce Development ensures that at different times there is a clear understanding and a direct link to the state training providers, and that the private providers with whom I have met and talked openly tell us what is happening with market behaviour early. We need to know what is happening out there so that if we need to make adjustments to the model being rolled out, those adjustments can be made early. It is also important to recognise—again I have said this from the outset; there is nothing I have hidden in this regard—that areas will need to be price sensitive. I agree with that point. That is one of the premises of the debate the opposition puts today. Some areas will not be price sensitive. As I have said, to support the premise of looking at a fee structure and having different changes in fees according to the priority qualifications needed to support industry in Western Australia, we need to understand what the behaviours will be at the end of the game. It is important that after introducing this we do not have an outcome we do not want—that is, an outcome in a critical area, supporting the economy in Western Australia, that is not supported. I have made that point. Mr D.J. Kelly interjected.

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Mr D.T. REDMAN: I will pick up on the point raised by the member for Bassendean. It is a point the Leader of the Opposition raised when he cited a couple of examples. One was a certificate IV in youth work and the other a certificate IV in disability. The government will be trialling an income-contingent loan structure for certificate IV courses in identified areas, including certificate IV in aged care, disability, community services work, youth work and education support. The government will be supporting a trial—the outcome of which I hope to know in the next few weeks—to support income-contingent loans to extend down to certificate IV in those particular areas so that it is not linked just to diploma and above courses. That is an exact example. Mr D.J. Kelly: Did you consult with workers in those industries? Mr D.T. REDMAN: That is an exact example of the effort of the Liberal–National government to try to roll out these changes, which are substantial and which are probably the biggest reform that has happened in training for some time. Mr F.M. Logan: It is not reform. Mr D.T. REDMAN: It is a reform. Mr F.M. Logan: It is cost cuts. Mr D.T. REDMAN: No; it is a reform. It is another example of trying to identify and give support to the strategies. Mr F.M. Logan interjected. The SPEAKER: The member for Cockburn has had his chance. I call him to order for the first time. Mr D.T. REDMAN: It is a reform. There are changes to the fee structure, but changes in a managed way. I make the point again, because the opposition seems to have missed this: I have said from the outset that in moving towards a more market-driven model and putting out a changed fee structure with increased fees, areas will be sensitised to that. As it goes out, we need to clearly understand what those sensitised areas will be and make adjustments if necessary. That is important when rolling out something the size of this reform. We are predicting the behaviours of the marketplace, and that is reasonable. Mr D.J. Kelly interjected. Mr D.T. REDMAN: If the opposition does not support the entitlement model — The SPEAKER: I call the member for Bassendean to order for the first time. Minister, please address the Chair. Mr D.T. REDMAN: There are significant changes in what the government has put in place. The two things are around the entitlement model. It is a market-driven approach. The government has also put in a changed fee structure. The increases in fees are lower for areas identified as priority industry qualification areas. Those priority industry qualification areas are determined by industry to see where the priority is. The entitlements changes are for 40 per cent of the training space in Western Australia. I have said from the outset that the government is monitoring very closely the changes in and the impact on the marketplace. I have already said that identified areas in some community service areas are seeking support. I will hopefully know what that is pretty soon so that income-contingent loans can be extended to the certificate IV level so that areas that are identified as having that need are supported. I now turn to a couple of other points of criticism from the opposition. One of my colleagues will talk on the Fair Work Commission decision, but I comment on a point raised by the shadow Minister for Training and Workforce Development. He led a debate—in fact, he has used the same argument in this debate—to say that the fee increase will be a disincentive for people signing up for apprenticeships. It is mandated that for about 60 per cent of the apprenticeships in Western Australia that come under the federal award, those fees are passed on to the employer. The employer effectively pays those fees for nearly two-thirds of training in WA. The member was prosecuting the argument that that will impact on the number of students who will do apprenticeships in Western Australia. The Fair Work decision is about a tenfold increase on the quantum by which this state government has increased the fees. The opposition cannot have it both ways. It cannot say that it supports that Fair Work decision and that will not be a disincentive to apprenticeships, and then say that the fee increase will be. Mr F.M. Logan: It is $10.49 an hour. Mr D.T. REDMAN: The member for Cockburn cannot have it both ways. It is important that I leave some time for my colleagues. In summary, there are some changes, and the government has been upfront about them and has not been backward in articulating them. The government will be watching closely what happens in the marketplace in terms of the changes in behaviour. Today in answer to a dorothy dixer in question time I announced the establishment of a review to support any recommendations for changes in the state training sector and by state training providers that might unshackle their capacity to respond

5274 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] to what essentially is a changed market environment for training in Western Australia. Examples in other states have demonstrated that heading down this path has lifted the size of the training sector in those states. There have been some changes in other states that the government does not support. This government has tried to constrain that so that it bites off only as much as it can chew; so this applies to about 40 per cent of the training space in Western Australia. I have the greatest amount of respect for training in these facilities. I have visited most of them now, and there is a lot of innovation, which is fantastic. I hope that I can support them by unshackling some of the constraints that training providers have and capitalise on those opportunities so that the state training system better supports the needs of industry in Western Australia. MS W.M. DUNCAN (Kalgoorlie — Deputy Speaker) [3.38 pm]: I speak against this motion, particularly the part of it that condemns the Barnett government for its attacks on the training sector. The training sector has seen great benefits under the Liberal–National government, particularly in regional areas. I will focus on that and on what the Liberal–National government has done under royalties for regions to support the training sector. Several members interjected. Ms W.M. DUNCAN: Opposition members may well sigh and moan, but that is only because they wish they had thought of it first. In May 2011 the government announced in the budget, under royalties for regions, $110.6 million for the regional skills training initiative. This initiative has focused on refurbishing and upgrading facilities and student accommodation in dedicated regional training centres that will meet industry training needs well into the future. Part of that initiative has involved replacing ageing technology, some of which was downright unsafe when this government came to office. This $110 million represents the biggest investment in regional training for a very long time. The aim is to keep our kids in the bush by providing better training facilities and options that meet the need for skilled workers where the work is—the resources industry in regional Western Australia. This year the government will invest over $41 million of royalties for regions money as part of its regional training initiative. I will go through a few of these initiatives that are making a difference to young people in the regions who want to access training and tap into the jobs available in regional areas. One of the standout initiatives that I am particularly proud to be involved with is the $20 million upgrade for Agricola College in Kalgoorlie. We will see the demolition of the existing dilapidated accommodation that houses 127 students and its replacement with new halls of residence accommodating 180 students from not only the School of Mines but also the Goldfields Institute of Technology. It will reduce students’ reliance on the rental market and build the higher education training capability in Kalgoorlie, which will not only produce skilled tradespeople for the economy but also contribute to the local economy through those students being resident in and training there. The Goldfields Institute of Technology was established under this government as a statutory authority in the goldfields region to ensure goldfields communities have access to quality training through the state’s publicly funded vocational education and training network. That setup is overseen by a board. Its governing council has representatives from Kalgoorlie, Boulder and Esperance and it manages those facilities under the Vocational Education and Training Act 1996. The Department of Training and Workforce Development has provided $400 000 in the past financial year to enable the reconfiguration of the Esperance workshop to improve the occupational health and safety of students. It will modify trade equipment in Kalgoorlie to meet higher occupational health and safety standards. The member for Cockburn talked about the minister getting his hands dirty. I accompanied the Minister for Training and Workforce Development to look at the facilities in Kalgoorlie. We saw the state of the equipment that we inherited from the previous government and recognised the need to provide protection for students because this equipment was not compliant with workplace safety regimes in this day and age. The minister and I met with students there. The minister had a long chat with them about what they were doing and how they were enjoying their training. We saw the great relationship that the Goldfields Institute of Technology in Kalgoorlie–Boulder has with the mining industry, which provides heavy equipment for the students to train on. I know as well that just this last weekend the minister was in Esperance, looking at the Goldfields Institute of Technology facility there. That facility was an absolute disgrace when we inherited it from the previous government. It had a few dongas stuck in an area that is flooded for most of the year. It really has been begging for funding. For a very long time I have been aware of the continual submissions to upgrade that facility, but they fell on deaf ears until this minister went down there last weekend. The Department of Training and Workforce Development completed a comprehensive assessment of the campus infrastructure in Esperance and Kalgoorlie to determine the condition of the buildings and to prioritise future critical remedial works. It will be thanks to royalties for regions funding that those facilities will be upgraded. While the minister was in Kalgoorlie, we looked at the mining hall of fame, which has been taken under the wing of the Goldfields Institute of Technology. This was a great example of thinking outside the square. That is a beautiful building that was looking for greater use. This initiative is working extremely well and is delivering training to upskill mining engineers. It recognises prior learning courses. I am not sure whether members are aware of the layout of that building, but they have set up equipment to train students to work from heights and

[ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] 5275 students can abseil from one floor of the mining hall of fame to the next. This training is greatly needed and welcomed in the goldfields region. Let us think about some of the other parts of regional Western Australia where this $110.6 million of royalties for regions has rolled out. The proposed West Kimberley trade training centre in Broome has had $10 million allocated to it, which will allow it to service 350 additional students. The project will provide a new carpentry and joinery workshop to increase training delivery in carpentry; it will increase the number of Aboriginal people in training and help with their work readiness and provide upskilling programs. Mr D.J. Kelly interjected. Ms W.M. DUNCAN: The minister has addressed the fee increase. To get good quality infrastructure and lecturers — Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! We cannot hear the member for Kalgoorlie and the Hansard reporter cannot take down what she is saying. Ms W.M. DUNCAN: I will move onto the Derby trade training centre, which has been upgraded to take an additional 120 students. Funding of $6.2 million will provide new classrooms and workshops. Several members interjected. Ms W.M. DUNCAN: Members opposite do not want to hear about this, do they? They are ashamed of their record in looking after regional TAFEs under their watch. Now, at last, these regional training centres are getting some attention, which they greatly need. The state of some of those trade training facilities is an embarrassment to members opposite. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Member for Bassendean, I call you to order for the second time. Member for Kalgoorlie, address the Chair, please. Ms W.M. DUNCAN: An amount of $2.8 million was provided for the Halls Creek trade training centre, a 20- year-old facility that desperately needed upgrading. That facility focuses particularly on Aboriginal workers to address underemployment and unemployment. It is a culturally appropriate workplace for Aboriginal people. Funding of $15.54 million has been allocated to upgrade and expand the Pundulmurra campus of the Pilbara Institute in South Hedland, which will be able to service over 10 000 students at Karratha and Port Hedland. The Durack Institute of Technology in Geraldton has been allocated $15.02 million, which will provide an extra 3 800 square metres of classroom and teaching areas. I have quite a lot more I could detail, but I will get to it on another occasion because the government has other members who wish to object to this motion. MR J. NORBERGER (Joondalup) [3.48 pm]: Notwithstanding for one little bit the respect I have for the member for Cockburn, we will have to agree to disagree on some points. I have a lot of history with the vocational education and training sector, and I believe I can speak with a little authority on that sector. We heard a lot of emotion from the Leader of the Opposition today, but he was very light on particularities. In fact, the opposition leader was very selective in the examples he provided to the house. I am glad that the Minister for Training and Workforce Development has brought some further information to bear on some of the initiatives that are underway and to review some of the help that people who are studying the various certificate IV courses may be able to get. We know that, relatively speaking, apprentices in general are the most affected group across the board. On average, in 2013, course fees for apprentices are $561, which is $11 a week. Members must remember that an education, be it a tertiary qualification or vocational and educational training, is an investment in somebody’s future. If I go to university, I do not get paid to learn. If I went to university, I would have to get a job at night. Everyone believes that when someone graduates from university they suddenly receive big bucks. That is just not the case. Quite often, people who graduate with an accounting degree are lucky to get paid $40 000 or $45 000 a year. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members are drowning out the member for Joondalup again. Member for Warnbro, we have missed you for the past few days but if you keep shouting out, we might be missing you again. Mr J. NORBERGER: A lot of examples can be given. My background and experience is in the mining sector and we know that the mining, resources and oil and gas sectors employ a lot of apprentices. When one of those apprentices graduates, they are on $180 000-plus a year. Ms M.M. Quirk: What about nurses? Mr J. NORBERGER: I said in the mining industry. In fact, nurses in the north west earn a fair bit as well. Several members interjected.

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The SPEAKER: Members! Member for Bassendean! Mr J. NORBERGER: I would like to give some perspective to another couple of things that members opposite have chosen to forget. Two-thirds of all apprenticeships undertaken in Western Australia are under a federal award whereby, by law, the employer picks up all the fees. Tabling of Paper Ms M.M. QUIRK: The member appears to be reading an official document that I seek to be tabled. The SPEAKER: It looks like the member for Joondalup’s speech notes, member for Girrawheen. Ms M.M. QUIRK: It happens to be the same ones that three other members have. Debate Resumed Mr J. NORBERGER: We have already heard from the minister that one-third of apprentices are eligible for concessions and we now have vocational education and training FEE-HELP as well. A lot of support is available for people who choose to undertake VET training. Why should they not? There are some great career opportunities available for them. Let us now look at something else. In the year leading up to 31 May 2013, we saw a decrease of 11.1 per cent in apprenticeship commencements. Let us not forget that the greatest limiting factor on whether or not someone will do an apprenticeship is whether there is an employer willing to give an apprentice a position. It is businesses, predominately small to medium-sized businesses, that decide to make positions available and take on apprentices. Of the people that I have met, there tends to be more people wanting to do apprenticeships than businesses that are willing to take them on. If we look at the wage increases that were handed down by the Fair Work Commission, and let us be very clear for the benefit of the member for Cockburn — Mr F.M. Logan: Ten dollars a week! The SPEAKER: Member for Cockburn! Mr J. NORBERGER: I am not making a judgment on whether or not that was a good decision. What I am saying is that the opposition is telling us that our fee increases are working as a disincentive for employers, when in actual fact the wage increase is nine times higher than those fee increases. As the minister said, “You can’t have your cake and eat it too”. Those opposite cannot accuse us of creating a disincentive by having these fees passed on in two-thirds of the cases, when in fact the $4 000 increase is creating the disincentive. Several members interjected. The SPEAKER: Members! Mr J. NORBERGER: That is right. Quite frankly, it is the small to medium-sized businesses that will decide whether to take on an apprentice. Most of these apprentices are going to graduate with great job opportunities. Mr D.J. Kelly: What about the disability sector? Mr J. NORBERGER: Again, that is a selective example. The member needs to look more broadly. MS S.F. McGURK (Fremantle) [3.54 pm]: I also support this motion today. We have just heard a range of reasons from the government that actually support our resolution. I will address a couple of these. People are frustrated with the current vocational training system because Western Australians understand that access to training is one of the key ways that they will get access to the boom that we have had and are seeing the tail end of. Access to real and meaningful vocational education and training will enable them to share in the benefits of the resources boom. This government’s efforts to increase vocational training fees works in exactly the opposite direction; it makes that training less accessible and less affordable for ordinary Western Australians. That applies to key industries, for example, resources and construction, let alone other high-demand areas such as the community and health sectors that the Leader of the Opposition and the member for Cockburn have already addressed. In the Barnett–Grylls government’s first term, we saw fewer apprentices in the highest skill demand areas of construction, electrical and mechanical trades. They were the areas that had the most demand, but in fact, the number of apprentices in those areas either declined or was static. What do we do to attract more apprentices into those areas? The labour movement and trade unions applied to increase wages for those apprentices so that there would be an incentive for young people to move into apprenticeships. They were successful, in part, because some wage increases were awarded, which the member for Cockburn has addressed. That is one way of attracting people into apprenticeships. But what has this government done? It has increased the fees for those apprentices. The SPEAKER: Minister for Local Government, if you want to have a private meeting, please make other arrangements.

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Ms S.F. McGURK: Increasing the fees, whether they are borne by the apprentices or by the employers, will be a disincentive. The fee increases are a further disincentive for the employers, who are looking at the bottom line of costs they have to endure to train people and to provide vocational training in key areas, and for apprentices who might initially bear the increases. On a whole range of measures, any of these increases run counter to the efforts that should be put in place to attract people into key skill demand areas, whether that is in the traditional trade training areas or other vocational areas such as the health and community sectors. Entry-level training is another area that I draw to the attention of the house. I am concerned about this government’s attacks on the training and vocational training sector. An organisation in my electorate—South Metropolitan Youth Link—provides key entry-level training, and has done for a number of years. In fact, it has been a nominee or winner in both state and national entry-level training. In 2007, it won an award for being the access and equity training provider of the year, and it was a finalist in the national awards in the same category as well as for Aboriginal school-based training programs. It has a lot of experience in entry-level training. Trainers from that organisation recently asked to meet with me because they are concerned that the cuts this government has put in place will leave some of the most vulnerable in our community exposed and with no access to entry-level training. South Metropolitan Youth Link estimates that 30 of its employees who provide important entry-level training will have to be let go. When high levels of unemployment and poor school attendance were identified as a major concern in the Rockingham–Kwinana area, SMYL led community and stakeholder consultation that confirmed the need for alternative approaches to at-risk youth. SMYL did that work and is concerned that as a result of the cuts to these programs, people are going to be left high and dry. Over three years SMYL has serviced more than 1 900 young people. For example, the school leavers program SMYL runs in the south west metropolitan region contacts years 10, 11 and 12 school leavers and in 2012 had contact with over 2 300 students. Finally, the community learning centres program, which allows young people to undertake formal vocational studies in certificate I, increased the attendance rate at school from 54 per cent to 84 per cent as a result of the students’ participation in the SMYL program. They are the people we need to keep engaged. They are Aboriginal people and young people who are falling through the cracks at school and TAFE. SMYL was engaging those people and I am concerned that those programs will be put at risk. I will give the minister a word of advice. Perhaps he should undertake a TAFE course in simple English. A “market-driven student-centred model” really just means that there will be an increase in fees. As someone suggested to me, the only part of students that this government is centred on is their wallets. If we are talking about sensitised areas—that is, those people who will find it difficult to pay will drop out of the vocational areas—just call it what it is. This increase in fees will affect those people badly. It will act as a disincentive for them. It will affect people in the metropolitan area, and, member for Kalgoorlie, it will affect them in the regions as well, believe me. For all those reasons, I support this motion. DR A.D. BUTI (Armadale) [4.00 pm]: I also rise in support of this motion. Once again, we are talking about an area in which this government is falling down—that is, education and training. This government has to go down as the most anti–education and training government in Western Australia in living history. I respect the abilities of the Minister for Training and Workforce Development, but I never thought he would outdo the Minister for Education in trying to damage the portfolio that he has responsibility for. What he is doing in this portfolio rivals what the education minister is doing in his portfolio. The minister talked about an entitlement and an uncapped system. He will not need to worry about caps because people will not be able to afford to take up a position. He cannot call something an entitlement and then make the cost so prohibitive that people cannot afford to take up a position. The minister mentioned in his contribution that in 2014, 92 per cent of students will be paying $2 000 or less, and in 2017 it will go down to 87 per cent who will be paying $2 000 or less, as though $2 000 is not much money! The minister does not seem to realise that for a lot of people who want to take up these positions in TAFE courses, $2 000 a year is a significant amount of money for them or their parents to try to pay. For the minister to say that $2 000 is not a prohibitive amount of money shows how out of touch he is. Western Australia is known as one of the most expensive states in Australia and one of the most expensive places in the world for working families, especially for families on single incomes. An impost of $2 000 a year is a significant impost. Of course, that is for the ones who will get away with paying $2 000 a year. People will not be able to afford to do the other courses for which the fees have been significantly increased. The minister can talk about entitlements and an uncapped system, but that is meaningless if people do not have the ability to pay for the courses. The member for Fremantle talked about the market-driven, student-centred model. I am sure that Milton Friedman is incredibly happy with the minister. Is it not ironic that the members of the National Party, the champions of agrarian socialism, who always fight the market forces in agriculture, suddenly become economic rationalists on TAFE issues? This model will eventually lead to the complete privatisation of the vocational education and training system. It is about time the minister was honest about this. His model is about

5278 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] privatisation. He talked about an income-contingent loan system. People who work in the disability sector will not be able to afford to pay back the loan. Either they will not do the course or they will do the course and be driven out of the industry. The minister should not talk about loans. He should study the loan system in the United States, where the debt for the loan system is driving down the economy. The minister stands condemned. Division Question put and a division taken, the Acting Speaker (Mr I.M. Britza) casting his vote with the noes, with the following result — Ayes (17)

Dr A.D. Buti Mr M. McGowan Ms M.M. Quirk Mr B.S. Wyatt Mr R.H. Cook Ms S.F. McGurk Mrs M.H. Roberts Mr D.A. Templeman (Teller) Mr W.J. Johnston Mr M.P. Murray Ms R. Saffioti Mr D.J. Kelly Mr P. Papalia Mr C.J. Tallentire Mr F.M. Logan Mr J.R. Quigley Mr P.B. Watson Noes (34)

Mr P. Abetz Mr J.H.D. Day Dr G.G. Jacobs Mr D.C. Nalder Mr F.A. Alban Ms W.M. Duncan Mr R.F. Johnson Mr J. Norberger Mr C.J. Barnett Ms E. Evangel Mr S.K. L’Estrange Mr D.T. Redman Mr I.C. Blayney Mr J.M. Francis Mr R.S. Love Mr A.J. Simpson Mr I.M. Britza Mrs G.J. Godfrey Mr W.R. Marmion Mr M.H. Taylor Mr T.R. Buswell Mr B.J. Grylls Mr J.E. McGrath Mr T.K. Waldron Mr G.M. Castrilli Dr K.D. Hames Mr P.T. Miles Mr A. Krsticevic (Teller) Mr M.J. Cowper Mrs L.M. Harvey Mr N.W. Morton Ms M.J. Davies Mr C.D. Hatton Dr M.D. Nahan

Pairs Ms L.L. Baker Ms A.R. Mitchell Mr P.C. Tinley Mr V.A. Catania Ms J.M. Freeman Mr A.P. Jacob Question thus negatived. BILLS Appropriations Messages from the Governor received and read recommending appropriations for the following bills — 1. Minerals Research Institute of Western Australia Bill 2013. 2. Electricity Corporations Amendment Bill 2013. 3. Declared Places (Mentally Impaired Accused) Bill 2013. BILLS Assent Message from the Governor received and read notifying assent to the following bills — 1. Land Tax Amendment Bill 2013. 2. Appropriation (Consolidated Account) Recurrent 2013–14 Bill 2013. 3. Appropriation (Consolidated Account) Capital 2013–14 Bill 2013. PROCEDURE AND PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE Inquiry into the Evidence and Public Interest Disclosure Legislation Amendment Act 2012 — Motion MR J.H.D. DAY (Kalamunda — Leader of the House) [4.11 pm]: I move — That the Procedure and Privileges Committee consider whether, in light of the provisions of the Evidence and Public Interest Disclosure Legislation Amendment Act 2012 — (a) journalists are appropriately protected from being compelled to disclose their sources in the course of parliamentary proceedings; and (b) any amendments to the standing orders are necessary or desirable. The committee is to report to the house on the above matters by 15 May 2014. This motion, essentially, calls on the house to refer to the Procedure and Privileges Committee the issue of the protections afforded to journalists as a part of parliamentary proceedings following the passage through Parliament of the Evidence and Public Interest Disclosure Legislation Amendment Bill 2012. The Evidence and

[ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] 5279

Public Interest Disclosure Legislation Amendment Act 2012 is now in effect and, specifically, the motion requests that the committee consider whether the standing orders should be amended to protect journalists from having to disclose their sources in the course of parliamentary proceedings. The act introduced several reforms to the laws of evidence and public interest disclosure. In particular, it sought to preserve the confidentiality requirements of certain types of relationships while allowing information and facts to be provided to the public. Among other things, the act introduced a further level of protection for journalists, which prevents journalists being compelled to disclose the identity of their sources unless it is established that the protection should not apply in the circumstances of the proceedings in question. At present, the protection does not apply when journalists are involved in the proceedings of the Legislative Assembly or its committees. The bill originally presented to Parliament in 2011 extended the protection to journalists involved in parliamentary proceedings; however, following concerns that this protection had the potential to infringe on the fundamental principles of the separation of powers and parliamentary sovereignty, the bill was amended and that specific protection relating to parliamentary proceedings was removed. The Legislative Council has amended its standing orders following a report from its Standing Committee on Procedure and Privileges, which considered options to resolve how this act might impact on the powers of the Legislative Council. The standing orders of the Legislative Council have been amended, and this motion requires the Procedure and Privileges Committee to consider this issue and report to the house by 15 May 2014. In particular, the committee is asked to consider whether the standing orders should be amended to ensure that journalists are adequately protected and not compelled to disclose their sources in the course of parliamentary proceedings. For the information of members who were elected at the last election and were not here for the previous debate, Parliament has now given a greater level of protection to journalists—the confidentiality of information that they receive in the course of their work in the wider community, with the exception of parliamentary proceedings. Parliament was concerned that it should not be required to undertake a particular action by a court. Parliament is sovereign and therefore, as I have mentioned, the initial protection provided to journalists in the Evidence and Public Interest Disclosure Legislation Amendment Bill 2012 was removed, and there was agreement and an undertaking given that the modification of the standing orders would be considered in both houses of Parliament to provide an equivalent level of protection for journalists, but with Parliament rather than an extra- parliamentary body making that decision. I commend this motion to the house. It is for the committee to consider the issues in more detail and to report back. MRS M.H. ROBERTS (Midland) [4.16 pm]: The opposition supports the Leader of the House’s motion. I note that the motion is to refer the matter to the Procedure and Privileges Committee, of which I am a member. I think that that is the appropriate group to consider the matters that the Leader of the House has referred to and that are referred to in this motion. Question put and passed. WESTERN AUSTRALIAN PHOTO CARD BILL 2013 Second Reading Resumed from 19 September. MS M.M. QUIRK (Girrawheen) [4.17 pm]: The decision for elderly Western Australians to stop driving is a difficult one for many to make; they fear social isolation and the loss of independence. The decision to stop driving and adjust to life without a car while staying involved and maintaining an active lifestyle can be very challenging. A simple thing like no longer holding a licence means that the elderly have no form of photographic identification, which can further marginalise them. Without photographic identification conducting everyday transactions such as opening a bank account, cashing a cheque, receiving international mail and even attending solicitors for the drafting of a will can be highly problematic. I have personal experience of the last matter. Recently, I took an elderly couple to a solicitor’s office to get their will updated; they had been clients of these solicitors for over 20 years. The will was drafted and the solicitors satisfied themselves of the mental capacity of both individuals to execute the will, but at the end of the process they requested photographic identification. Both of these people had not had a driver’s licence for a number of years, so I asked the solicitors why this was necessary. They referred me to the Financial Transaction Reports Act 1995, which is a regime relating to combatting money laundering, and said that because the will transferred money, the law firm had to satisfy itself as to the identity of the people involved. The fact that the couple had been clients of the solicitors for 20 years and that their son went to school with one of the senior partners who could verify their identity was not considered sufficient for the firm—a large firm with a very good reputation in town. Consequently, that elderly couple has been hounded for photographic identification for the last four or five months and this led me to write a letter in support of this bill. Hopefully, in the near future, that couple will have

5280 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] photographic identification that they can provide to the solicitors, even though I actually thought the solicitors were taking their legal obligations way too far. This bill is aimed at assisting the elderly, the disabled and those non–licence holding Western Australians to negotiate a range of transactions in our community without a driver’s licence by introducing a photo ID that can be used in all circumstances in which a driver’s licence is traditionally used. As I said, no longer holding a driver’s licence has the unanticipated outcome that the primary source of photo identification recognised and sought in a range of transactions can no longer be used. The issue here is that the card that is used in its place must have the same level of integrity and trust that a driver’s licence has for the purposes for which it is required. It is our belief that the government has an obligation to ensure that people who do not hold a driver’s licence are not unfairly disadvantaged. As I said, it gives certain status and integrity, which is not met by the proof-of-age card. This status and integrity is effectively conferred by this bill and its compliance with the national identity security strategy gold standard enrolment framework. It is part of the old 100 points system that the banks no longer use. It will be given a high number of points because it complies with the GSEF. These laws mirror those in New South Wales under the Photo Card Act 2005, which recently underwent a statutory review. In June 2013 a report of that review was published. The scheme was endorsed by that review. It was found to be working well and its continued existence was essential. Of note were the observations made at recommendation 3 on page 6 of that review that note — The Department of Attorney General and Justice has commented that since the RMS functions include administering a database of sensitive personal information, this power should not be capable of delegation to the private sector. If in the future there is a desire to involve the private sector in the administration of the scheme, this should be considered by the Government. In Western Australia, similarly, the scheme will be administered by the Department of Transport but we share similar concerns to those that arose in New South Wales and believe that because of the sensitivity of the material that will be held in relation to the application and provision of those cards, the information should remain in government hands and be subject to robust security measures. We know that under this bill, a photo card will be valid for five years and will have the same application process and security as a driver’s licence, which will make it accepted by businesses everywhere a licence is accepted. In the briefing, we spoke a little about the education process of notifying businesses, for example, that this card did have that status and whether the government would engage in some sort of small education campaign to inform people of the integrity and status of the card. Mr T.R. Buswell: It is part of the bigger picture. Ms M.M. QUIRK: I thank the minister. All cards will have a photograph and a signature but the discretion exists as to what other information the applicant wants on the card. As I said, we were assured by the minister in his second reading speech that the highest standards of privacy will be imposed in the same way they are for drivers’ licences. We certainly welcome those assurances. As I noted earlier, the photo card will replace the proof-of-age card currently issued by the Department of Racing, Gaming and Liquor, which is evidence of age for those wanting to attend licensed premises. The photo card will be prescribed in regulations as acceptable evidence of age for access to licensed premises under the Liquor Control Act 1988. To ensure a smooth transition between the cards and so as not to disadvantage holders of the proof-of-age card, replacement proof-of-age cards will continue to be provided for a period of six months following the introduction of the photo card. There is a fee of $35 for the photo card and $20 to replace a lost card. There are no concessions. I know that times are tight, but I draw the house’s attention to a letter that the Premier wrote prior to the election to the Western Australian state office of National Seniors. The Premier was asked — Will you fund free photo ID for seniors and carers who no longer have a driver’s licence or passport identification? (Following the lead of New South Wales recently) The response from the Premier was — A re-elected Liberal Government will introduce legislation for the creation of a new photographic identification card and will consider issuing free photo ID cards for seniors and carers who meet the same criteria to be eligible for fee exemptions of the driver’s licence. Obviously it was considered and rejected. The undertaking given in that letter prior to the election is somewhat misleading; it may lead recipients of that letter to believe that the card will be free. That contrasts with our pre- election promise, which was made on 19 February, in which we said that we would introduce a free photo ID for seniors who do not hold a valid driver’s licence. I make that observation to show that there was a contrast, and that also contrasts with the situation in New South Wales. Until March this year there was a charge of $46 for

[ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] 5281 this card and $22 for a replacement. The New South Wales government announced in March that these fees would be waived for seniors. However, at the time of the statutory review, which came out in June, that promise had not been delivered. There is an indication that New South Wales, which has had the scheme for a number of years, has found it successful and is now prepared to issue that card free for seniors. I would certainly ask the government to reconsider its decision—if not now, at some later time when it has a better idea of the take-up of this card—and provide it free, even to pensioners or health care card holders. I think that would be very much welcomed. In conclusion, not holding a driver’s licence should not result in a loss of identity. The photo ID card will facilitate a person’s identity to engage in a range of everyday commercial transactions without undue inconvenience. That is important in a world of growing commercial complexity, fraud and identity credentials being more frequently questioned. I commend the bill to the house. MR C.J. TALLENTIRE (Gosnells) [4.28 pm]: I rise to speak to the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013. As a member of state Parliament, nothing makes me prouder than seeing the people of my electorate help bring about change that benefits all Western Australians. Indeed, that is the case with the photo ID card. Its establishment is in no small part due to the work of one of my constituents, Patricia Best. I want to pay tribute to the work of Patricia, who first came to me in 2009 to talk about this need. She explained to me how many people are in situations in which they are not able to drive and they therefore do not hold a driver’s licence. She said that meant that things as routine and as commonplace as taking out a mobile phone account were an impossibility because to acquire a mobile phone, one needs to present a certain level of identification. A driver’s licence meets the various tests but other forms of identification do not meet that test. If one does not hold a driver’s licence, one is in a difficult situation. Opening a bank account is similar, which is essential for us all to do; that is, if someone does not have the necessary identification that meets the point standards, they are not able to open a bank account. Patricia explained this to me. My initial assumption—she was able to correct me on this—was that this would apply mostly to seniors. The government’s media release about bringing this bill to this place refers to the card being vital for seniors. This card is essential for a whole host of people in our community who do not hold drivers’ licences. People with epilepsy who choose not to drive do not hold drivers’ licences. People with other medical conditions are in a similar situation. Not only seniors but a range of people in our community will welcome this initiative. It is important to note that this card will have identification value equal to a driver’s licence. We need to be sure about that because I do not want to hear back from constituents that they presented their photo ID card at a particular mobile phone outlet but it was not recognised. We have to be sure this card will have that full recognition. That is why it has taken time to develop the system. On that score, I express some disappointment. As I said, I first raised this issue with the government when Patricia Best raised it with me in 2009. I have correspondence from when Hon Simon O’Brien was Minister for Transport; Disability Services. On 17 November 2010, he sent me a signed letter that had no doubt been written for him, but he took the time to also write a personal note — Chris—apology for delay in responding; a great deal of work has been done already. That was back in November 2010. We had to wait and wait. Meanwhile all our constituents have been frustrated by the inability of our government system to provide this important service. We had various exchanges and I put questions on notice to ask the minister what was happening. I generally received brush-off responses. I had an exchange of letters with the current Minister for Transport and received a letter from his chief of staff. It was not from him, as he tends not to write to people such as me; I do not know to whom he writes, but his chief of staff is the only one who responds to my correspondence to the minister. The most recent correspondence from his chief of staff was in July 2011 and it stated — DoT has advised that work is near completion and a proposal will soon be put forward to the minister for consideration. That was in July 2011. It did not sound particularly optimistic, but at long last we are here. I am pleased about that. I know the photo identification card will make a big difference to the lives of many people and I welcome it. It has been a long time coming, but it will make a big difference. I really want to congratulate Patricia Best for her tenacity and persistence in driving this project to fruition. This is a fine example of how active and engaged citizens such as Patricia can make a difference to all Western Australians. It is great when our broader community realises that they can make a difference that helps everyone. MR P. ABETZ (Southern River) [4.34 pm]: I rise to speak on the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013. People require proof of identity for many, many things. Sometimes it can be very frustrating when someone does not have the type of identity paper required. I well recall when my wife and I and five children came across the Nullarbor in 1991 to move to Western Australia. We cruised along and took our time to cross the Nullarbor. People say that there is not much to see on the Nullarbor, but we took the trip over about five days because there is so much to see if people drive slowly enough to see it all. I drove my 1982 kombi slowly enough to see it all!

5282 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013]

For those who are interested, that 1982 kombi was the very last of the air-cooled kombis that rolled off the production line in Germany. It is the kombi that I still use in my election campaign. It has done only 500 000 kilometres! To go back to the story, we realised our kids were getting crankier and crankier as we crossed the Nullarbor. We thought: what is wrong with our kids? Within a day or two of arriving in Perth, they all came down with chicken pox. So my dear wife went to the video shop in Willetton to hire a video. The video shop wanted proof of her address. We had just come from Victoria and we had our Victorian drivers’ licences. They said we had to have at least an electricity bill, a driver’s licence or a bank statement with our address in Western Australia. We were unable to furnish that, so we were unable to hire a video. Even a passport was insufficient. Mr D.A. Templeman: Turn back the kombi! Mr P. ABETZ: If I had turned back, the member would not have the privilege of my presence in this chamber. Mr D.A. Templeman: That is exactly the reason you should have turned back! Mr P. ABETZ: Anyway, we decided to ring the Western Australian Department of Transport or whatever it was called in those days and we thought, “Let us get our drivers’ licences changed immediately.” My wife and I went along to the Department of Transport at Welshpool. On the phone the department told us that all we had to do was fill out some forms and it could do it on the spot for us. The department did not tell us that we had to sit a test; we were caught flat-footed on that one. The department made us do a test, which we managed to pass. Obviously, the rules are sufficiently akin to Victoria for us to get a pass mark, but we got a few things wrong. I am not sure which ones they were, but we sweated on it a bit when the department said that we had to sit a test. We said that no-one had told us about that. We passed our tests, we got our drivers’ licences and we were able to hire a video. Is that not amazing? It did not matter about driving, but we had our licences to hire a video. One of the things I find amusing about identification documents is that often a higher quality document such as a passport is not considered acceptable, but a scruffy bit of paper called an extract of birth entry is acceptable for some purposes. People need a birth certificate to get a passport in the first place, but, no, sometimes we cannot get these things. One of the interesting things about this photo ID card is that it will replace the proof-of-age card. I have an interesting story to tell about one of my constituents, Mr Zora Gill, a 77-year-old retired Main Roads engineer. He is a very capable person and very community-minded. He served as the president of the Sikh Association of Western Australia for a number of years. Since he relinquished that role a while ago, he decided to go back to what he had done in earlier years, which was to be a voluntary teacher assistant in the local school. Therefore, he needed to get a working with children card again. He filled in the form, got it signed by the school chaplain and all the rest of it. He then went along to the post office. He sent me an email, which reads — When I took it to the local post office for registration it was not accepted, although I produced three cards (driver’s licence, Medicare and bank cards), because I did not have a proof of age card … I would have thought that most people would believe a 77-year-old is pretty ancient. Mr Zora Gill does not quite look like a 16-year-old or an 18-year-old anymore, but he is still able to get about and he still drives, but he was told that he needed to get a proof-of-age card. He went to the Department of Transport office. Do members know what he needed there? He needed to show his driver’s licence and pay a $25 fee, and only then did he get his proof-of-age card. He went back to the post office, and all of a sudden his application could proceed. He wrote to me and said, “Surely this is crazy.” Here is a man who still had a driver’s licence, but to get the necessary documentation for a working with children card, he had to toddle off, pay $25, come back, present that documentation and then it would be okay. As it turned out, if the chap at the post office or even Mr Gill himself had read a little more carefully the explanatory sheet that comes with the working with children card, they would have seen that the proof-of-age card is a category C document, and three of those were necessary; he had only two—a Medicare card and his bank cards. Even though he had several bank cards, only one is allowed to be used, so he needed one more document. All he needed to do, in fact, was to go home and get his electricity or gas bill and he would have been home and hosed and saved himself a trip to the Department of Transport and having to pay $25, but never mind. There are some crazy things about so-called proof of identity, but the new photo card is, I think, a very positive thing, as has been mentioned by previous speakers. It certainly fills a gap for those who do not have a driver’s licence. I am glad to see that the photo card will not be too costly; it will cost around $35 for five years or thereabouts, and it will be available to anyone over the age of 16. It is certainly not just something for seniors, but will be available to anyone who does not drive. As has already been mentioned, there are many people who, for various reasons, do not have a driver’s licence. It might be for medical reasons, but some people have simply never got around to learning how to drive. I find it a little amusing that under clause 6(3), an applicant does not have to provide a photograph if, within the period of 10 years before the application, the applicant has already provided a photograph. I do not know about other members, but over the last 10 years I have lost a fair bit of hair!

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Mr D.A. Templeman interjected. Mr P. ABETZ: Yes. I would have thought that one would look rather different in the 10-year period between the ages of 16 and 26, but never mind. Then again, if at the age of 75, I give up my driver’s licence and I need to get one these cards, when I hit the age of 85, I will be allowed to walk around with an identity card that shows what I looked like when I was 75, so I guess there are some pluses! Mrs G.J. Godfrey interjected. Mr P. ABETZ: Yes, I will still look like a young man! In fact, that reminds me of the former member for Alfred Cove, Janet Woollard. The letterhead photo she used never changed in her three terms in Parliament, and I think it was already 10 years old at the beginning of her parliamentary career! When one saw her letterhead and then met her in real life, there was a considerable difference. Dr M.D. Nahan interjected. Mr P. ABETZ: Yes; never mind! I find that amusing, but I guess it saves people the trouble of having to get another photo because the Department of Transport will have it on file. Perhaps as an optional extra, minister, there could be a fee-for-service for the image to be photoshopped a little to make them look either older or younger, depending upon what they wish. But it will certainly make life a little easier for those who do not like having their photo taken too often. Another thing in the bill that might at first seem a little odd is in clause 8(2)(d), which provides the option for a photo card to contain the cardholder’s residential address. I thought, “Hang on a minute; if I think back to the time when we came across the Nullarbor and we wanted to hire a video, if we didn’t have our address on the document, it wasn’t much use. Why would anybody want to have an ID card without their address on it?” I checked the explanatory memorandum, and it provided the example of a 17-year-old going to a nightclub and having to show her proof-of-age card, but not wanting the person checking the IDs to be able to read and memorise her address and perhaps give her grief later. I think that is a reasonable option. I noted with interest that a person is actually able to have two cards issued to them—one with the address and one without. I think that is quite a useful provision in the bill. Mr A. Krsticevic: You’d have to pay twice. Mr P. ABETZ: One would need to pay twice, yes. If the member for Carine does not want people to know where he lives when he goes to a nightclub, he can take the one without his address on it! Several members interjected. Mr P. ABETZ: Okay. The Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013 is a very useful piece of legislation and certainly probably one of the most uncontroversial bills that have come to this house; I can hardly imagine anyone being opposed to it. It will certainly be helpful for people who do not drive or who no longer drive. Elderly people who have to hand in their driver’s licence have found, in the past, that it takes away not only their mobility, which can be a little disconcerting for them, but also a form of identification. That, I think, also makes the whole experience of handing over one’s driver’s licence just that little bit more difficult. Being able to get a Western Australian photo card means that they can still have a form of identification that fulfils much the same function for identification as a driver’s licence when they want to hire a video, or whatever else. Perhaps, for those who are so young that they do not know what videos are, I should explain that they were what we had before we had DVDs and CDs. Several members interjected. Mr P. ABETZ: Yes. Let us hope that the bureaucrats get all the administration right when implementing this bill. Legislation like this can look very simple on the surface, but when it comes to actually implementing it, there can sometimes be teething issues; let us hope there are not too many in this case and that the Department of Transport can provide people with these cards in a way that is as hassle-free as possible so that they can have a readily available and readily accepted means of identifying themselves when it is necessary or appropriate to do so. The final point I want to raise is that for the purpose of making a working with children application, the driver’s licence is deemed to be a category B document, which is a higher threshold of identification than the proof-of- age card issued by the Department of Transport, which is only a category C document. If an elderly person who no longer drives wants to get a working with children card and presented at the post office with their passport plus their driver’s licence, that would be all they would need to bring. However, if they no longer had a driver’s licence and presented with a passport and the photo card, it would not provide adequate identification if it were used to replace the proof-of-age card, which is category C identification. I would hope that the documentary requirements for a photo card will be the same as those for a driver’s licence, and that the working with children people will move the photo card into category B rather than leaving it in category C. If people have no

5284 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] category B documents, they will need three category C documents—that is, a Medicare card, credit card from a financial institution, a bank statement or a motor vehicle registration, which that person will not have if they do not drive, or a utility notice and various things. It would be so much simpler if a person could present their passport and the Western Australian photo card; it would make life easier. I hope that issue can be addressed when this card comes into existence and people make use of it. The working with children card is widely used. People who teach Sunday schools must have them. People who work in schools need them. People such as parents and grandparents need a working with children card if they go into schools on a regular basis to listen to kids read, as part of improving literacy. We need to make it as easy as possible for people to be able to volunteer but still ensure adequate protections so that only the right kind of people get to work and have access to children in schools. With that, I conclude my remarks and commend this bill to the house. I look forward to it coming into effect. MR D.A. TEMPLEMAN (Mandurah) [4.52 pm]: This is good legislation. I support it. MR J. NORBERGER (Joondalup) [4.52 pm]: I am glad to follow the member for Mandurah. By virtue of what I have said already, I have doubled his speech, which is very rare. I do not normally try to compete with the member for Mandurah given he has many years of experience over me. It also gives me joy to follow my colleague the member for Southern River, ever the pragmatist, in this debate. This afternoon I want to add my views to the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013. It is nice that on this occasion the bill is supported by both sides. It would be nice if that occurred more frequently, as opposed to the heated debate members engaged in earlier. It is nice to finish the afternoon talking about a bill on which we all agree. The Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013 is important. It may not get the same media attention as other legislation that passes through this house, but, rest assured, it is welcomed by a broad group of community members. Many of the community members I have spoken to—similar to those who have spoken to the member for Southern River and other members—look forward to the implementation of this bill. Why? It is not a grandiose bill. From a page count, it is not a massive bill. To understand why the community is so looking forward to this bill, members must understand the current situation. As the member for Southern River explained in detail, most people take for granted their photographic driver’s licence. The vast majority of us have a driver’s licence. In our society driving a car is considered almost an essential freedom. When a person buys, for example, a new iPhone and needs to register the SIM card or opens a bank account, they need some form of identification. It is ever so easy for a person to dig their hand into their pocket, pull out their wallet—if they are like me, there may not be too much cash floating around—and find their driver’s licence quick smart, show it and never give it another thought. However, for a variety of reasons, surprisingly, a large contingent of the community does not have drivers’ licences. That can make life difficult for them sometimes. If a person has a passport, like the member for Southern River alluded to, it does not make life impossible, but it certainly makes life more difficult. Heaven forbid, if on top of that they do not have a passport. As someone who has had the great privilege of travelling throughout the world—travel is something that I enjoy—it is hard for me to imagine not having a passport. However, I know many people, friends and colleagues, who have never left Australia and have never needed to apply for a passport. That is their choice. Perhaps they have not had the opportunity to travel because of certain circumstances. Mr M.H. Taylor: Where have you been? Mr J. NORBERGER: I have been to a few places. If I were to go through all of them, that would definitely take us to the dinner break. I have not been anywhere lately. Lately, I have just been in Joondalup. The people of Joondalup have my full attention. For now, there is been no travel for me. Mr A. Krsticevic: Have you been to other countries where they have photo ID cards? Mr J. NORBERGER: It is funny the member for Carine should ask. I have. Members may remember from my inaugural speech that I spent three years in East Timor. For a period of time in East Timor there was no such thing as a driver’s licence. Anyone could drive and the manners on the road showed that was the case. There really were no standards. On a side note—I do not want to get too far off subject — Mr N.W. Morton: They let you drive, did they? Mr J. NORBERGER: Yes, they did let me drive, and it was crazy. I taught myself how to ride a motorbike in East Timor. There was no licensing—nothing. I just jumped on, dodged the water buffalo and the goats and before I knew it, I was a qualified motorbike rider! It was organised chaos. I know some members have travelled to India and the like, and one wonders how it is possible that more people do not die on the roads. One thing I have noted is that, firstly, they do not go as fast as we do; and, secondly, they all mistrust each other’s ability so much that they tend to be more switched on and alert. That is my little safety tip for road users. Mr P. Abetz: The roads are horrendous in India. Mr J. NORBERGER: They probably are. I do not believe they have a statistics department in East Timor so we will never know.

[ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] 5285

Getting back to the question of the member for Carine, in all seriousness, it was an issue in East Timor. There were no drivers’ licences and most Timorese did not have passports. It was a country where people did not travel far afield, so proof of identification was phenomenally hard to establish. This was especially difficult as international banks set up shop in East Timor. The ANZ Bank opened up business there and tried to uphold the same standards as those in Australia, and the best form of ID someone could come up with was a birth certificate. Even then, during the battle for independence, a lot of the records were lost, so it was a challenging period. By the time I left in 2005, they had implemented a photographic card. Dare I say—I never thought I would see the day—East Timor beat us to it. Never mind! We will make penitence for that. Within my community, replicated through my colleagues’ electorates, many elderly people are asked by the government, sadly, to relinquish their drivers’ licences because of deteriorating eyesight or other medical conditions. Straightaway, that often hampers their ability to identify themselves to the likes of a bank or other institution. If they have a passport, that can be used, but people do not carry their passports around with them all the time. If a person knows they are going to open a bank account, they can go out of their way and carry the passport, but sometimes people do things on the spur of the moment. For example, a person might decide to buy an iPad or iPhone, and to purchase a SIM card for that device the retailer will want to see photographic ID. If the person did not think ahead and the passport is safely locked away at home because they are not travelling—a passport is taken great care of—that spur of the moment decision cannot progress. Another group that is affected are people with a disability that prevents them from driving. Whilst it is encouraging to see technology making it possible for disabled members of the community to participate wherever possible in activities such as driving a motor vehicle, and we see modifications being made to motor vehicles to enable a greater range of disabled persons to drive a motor vehicle, there will still be people with a disability that will unfortunately preclude them from holding a driver’s licence. As I said at the outset, someone who does not hold a driver’s licence and who does not travel internationally so does not hold a passport is at a huge disadvantage. I did not have to look too far to find examples of this. I found two examples in my own family and friendships, so I did not have to go on a huge Easter egg hunt to find an obscure example of someone in the community who is affected. A good friend of mine, who is probably in his early 30s—he is younger than I am—has some issues with his eyesight that preclude him from holding a driver’s licence. He has adapted in the sense that he uses public transport, but it has made it more difficult for him to find work because a lot of employers want their employees to have a driver’s licence. Nonetheless, he has made a go of it and he is enjoying life, but he does not have a driver’s licence. Unless medical technology changes, he will go through the rest of his life not being able to operate a vehicle and therefore get a driver’s licence. I spoke to him about this and asked him how it impacted his day-to-day life. He had a bit of a smile on his face and, sure enough, he reached into his back pocket and pulled out what I would suggest is one of the most well-worn, dog-eared and well-used passports I have seen, but not because he travels overseas a lot. Sometimes people pull out their passports as a bit of a show and tell, “Look at this stamp and that stamp from everywhere I have travelled!” He did not travel a whole lot at all, but his passport was his primary form of identification. I know it might sound trivial, but a passport is not something that people can easily stuff into their wallets; it is a sizeable document. It is a very important official document. We have heard people talk about identity theft. There have been stories in the past of people’s passports being forged and used by criminals and the like, assuming their identity. We take passport security very seriously. A passport tends to be a document with a high level of recognition that people keep in a safe place. My friend does not have that option. He literally carries it in his back pocket everywhere he goes, day in and day out. He might be pulled over by the police—I guess he would not! If he got pulled over by the police, he would be in trouble and his passport would not help him at all! If he was required to identify himself to the police or he wanted to open a bank account, he could not afford to be without his passport. The second example is my step-mum, so it does not get too much closer to home than that. A couple of years after my dad and mum got divorced, my dad remarried to a lovely lady named Virginia. Virginia is of Filipina descent. She is physically able to drive a car but she has a fear of driving and has not felt comfortable within herself to get a driver’s licence. This gives my dad great meaning in life, because he is a perpetual taxidriver, which is okay because he is retired and he does not have too many other hobbies and he enjoys it. In Virginia’s case, not having a driver’s licence to rely upon as a form of identification has meant that she has no choice but to make sure she has her passport handy. There are other circumstances in which a photo ID is required, as was the case with my wife for a couple of years and certainly with Virginia. For example, if someone is not an Australian citizen and they do not have an Australian passport, they may need to renew their passport when it expires. That is something people need to bear in mind, particularly if their country of origin does not have a consulate in Perth because a lot of forward planning needs to be in place. For example, before my wife became an Australian citizen, she still had her Timorese passport. At the time, Timor—God bless them—did not have a consulate in Western Australia. Mr N.W. Morton interjected.

5286 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013]

Mr J. NORBERGER: They do have ID cards; they are very advanced! At the time, Timor had a consulate in Canberra. People could not post their passport to the Timorese consulate in Canberra, because the system at that time required a physical presence. My wife’s passport expired prior to her becoming an Australian citizen, more or less stranding her. In her case, thankfully, she had a Western Australian driver’s licence. If she had not had a driver’s licence and she had rocked up to the bank with an expired passport—they may not; it is their prerogative as a lot of these forms of ID have an expiry date—her only option would have been to fly to Canberra at our expense to apply for a passport at the Timorese consulate. That is not something we would like to have done. In my own family, there are several examples of what many of us take for granted and which can create issues. Those are circumstances in which this bill will come into play. We have heard from a number of my colleagues that this bill will create a photo ID card that is very similar to a driver’s licence, with security features and the key components of photograph, name, date of birth and the like, but without the need to indicate whether that person can drive a motor vehicle. We have heard as well of the existence of a proof-of-age card under the liquor control framework. We have heard some reasons why that is not really an acceptable alternative; simply, it is not as broadly accepted as a driver’s licence. It is the view of the government that when this photo card comes into existence, it will have the same status and recognition as a driver’s licence. This is important. It is also important to mention that the photo card is 100 per cent voluntary. If people do not need or want one, that is fine; it is not being forced upon them. Sometimes when we talk about identification documents such as the photo card, it can raise some concerns about Big Brother watching or an impost, but it is completely voluntary. The cost to apply for the card is $35, but it will last for five years. To put that in perspective, the cost is $7 a year. It is also optional to have the person’s address shown on the card. There might be a number of circumstances in which someone would like to identify themselves, their date of birth and obviously a photo, but for whatever reason—I cannot think of any at the moment—they do not want to show their address. It is even more interesting that people have the option of having two cards. Under this bill, people can apply for two photo ID cards—one with an address and one without an address. Ultimately, that will give people a huge amount of flexibility. Many people in my community are looking forward to the introduction of this card. The member for Gosnells indicated that a number of people in his community have been strong advocates for the photo card. I know that in the northern suburbs, particularly Joondalup, the Self-funded Retirees Association has been very vocal, in a positive way, in advocating for the introduction of this legislation. I had the great privilege to address the association’s members prior to the election. In the question and answer session, in essence, they had the opportunity to bring up any subject with a potential future member of Parliament. Obviously I was fortunate enough to become a member, but at the time, when they could bring up any issue they wanted, the number one issue they wanted to put on my agenda was their desire to see the introduction of this kind of legislation. Members can imagine that it gave me great pleasure last week to ring the president of the Self-funded Retirees Association and update him on what our house is working to progress. The association is very much looking forward to this legislation being passed. Once the bill is passed, we can look forward to its implementation early next year in March or April. It is certainly something that I think will be of great and immediate benefit to a number of community groups across the board. As such, I fully support this bill. I look forward to going through some of the details in consideration in detail. I do not believe there is any kind of fine print lurking anywhere, but obviously it will give us an opportunity to look at the bill. I look forward to progressing the bill to the other house for its consideration—no doubt members of that place will consider it in great detail, as they tend to do there—and sending it to the Governor for royal assent and getting it happening for the benefit of our community. I commend the bill to the house. MS W.M. DUNCAN (Kalgoorlie — Deputy Speaker) [5.09 pm]: I rise to support the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013. It is greatly welcomed and is, in some ways, long overdue. The bill will provide a form of identification for people who do not have access to a driver’s licence, passport or other form of identification. As we have been advised previously, the photo card will be available to all Western Australian residents over the age of 16. It is a secure document with a high level of recognition that will assist people who need identification in their daily lives, such as to purchase goods and services, to deal with banks or government agencies or to undertake transactions for which a driver’s licence would normally be required. There is at the moment the proof-of-age card. It contains a photograph but does not have a sufficient level of acceptance to give the holder access to the services that a driver’s licence does. As has been mentioned, the photo card will assist older people, people with disabilities and, of particular importance to me and to regional members, Aboriginal people, many of whom do not have a driver’s licence but need that level of identification to conduct business in their daily lives. Under the legislation, obtaining a photo card will be voluntary. The photo card will contain the means to substantiate the cardholder’s identity, age and/or residential address and will be accepted by a government agency, bank or other business. It will contain the cardholder’s name, date of birth, photograph and signature. The cardholder can apply for the card for a variety of reasons. That is why, as was discussed earlier in the debate, there is the opportunity for people to apply for two cards. They can have a photo card for purposes such as going into a liquor establishment or a nightclub where they may not want their address identified, or they can

[ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] 5287 have a photo card with the full details, which they may require to establish their identity to apply for a new bank account or something like that. The flexibility of the legislation will give cardholders the opportunity to decide for what purpose they want to use the card. The eligibility criteria for the photo card includes that the person is a resident of Western Australia, is at least 16 years of age and meets the requirements that are prescribed in the regulations for the purposes of the clause. In the application, the applicant has to satisfy the CEO of their eligibility and provide a photograph and signature and, of course, the prescribed fee. This standard of proof will be the same as that accepted under the national identity security strategy gold standard enrolment framework, or GSEF. It is another nice little acronym for members to learn to wrap their tongues around! The GSEF was jointly developed by the Australian commonwealth, state and territory governments in an endeavour to ensure the application of consistent and secure standards by government agencies when there is a need to verify an individual’s identity. In order to comply with those GSEF standards and for the card to have that level of security, it must contain a photograph and a signature. As was mentioned by the member for Joondalup, the interesting thing is that these sorts of cards always raise questions about security and privacy, so the photograph and signature will be captured and stored electronically. That will enable their future use by the CEO, but there are rules around how they will be used. If the photograph is on file and has been held for 10 years and has not been accessed by the owner, it will be destroyed. That requirement comes under clause 17(1). It applies also to the signature. If the signature has not been accessed for 10 years, it will be destroyed. The current intention of the bill is that the card will have a duration of five years. That should stand in good stead those who find accessing the necessary administration to even apply for a card a bit daunting. Once they have got it, they will have it for five years, so that should assist in particular Aboriginal people who apply for a photo card. There are also clauses that provide for penalties if the cards are misused. Under clause 11(2), it is an offence for a person to forge or fraudulently alter a photo card. Under clause 11(3), it is an offence if a person uses a fraudulently altered or another person’s photo card. There are protections. Under clause 11(4), it is an offence for a person to have in his or her possession, with intent to deceive another person, a photo card or an article resembling a photo card. Under clause 11(5), it is an offence for a person to lend his or her photo card to another person or to allow another person to use their photo card. These regulations should assist in ensuring that the system is secure and is not misused. Another aspect of the bill that we need to be aware of is that the photo card will come under the law in relation to access by the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation and the police, but there are clauses that will ensure that the highest level of permission is required for that access. Clause 15(2) requires the CEO to disclose the photograph to a police official, and clause 15(3) requires the CEO to disclose the photograph to an ASIO official for the purposes of their functions. But those officials are very high in the department—that is, the Director- General of Security in the case of ASIO and the delegate of the Commissioner of Police. I think there is some comfort there, but, obviously, in this day and age, whenever a form of identification is held by government agencies, we have to assume that it will be used if it is necessary for security purposes. There is also an allowance for the CEO to disclose the photograph to an executor or an administrator of a deceased person’s estate. That will enable them to conduct the business of a deceased person. This will replicate what happens under the Road Traffic Act, whereby disclosure of a photograph on a driver’s licence can be allowed. I think that provision was fairly recently introduced into that act. Restrictions on the disclosure of photographs exist to safeguard the identity of the photographed person. In circumstances in which the photographed person has died, however, and the photograph is sought by a next of kin through the executor or an administrator of a deceased person’s estate, it is considered that matters of security are less likely to be an issue and that disclosure of the photograph is appropriate on compassionate grounds. I think that having access to identification in cases of deceased persons and executors needing a high level form of identification will be welcomed. There has been discussion in the house about the type of people this will help and we have had a few personal examples. My own mother had to give up her driver’s licence because she has macular degeneration. It was a very courageous decision because she is a very independent and mobile lady. I must say, while I have the opportunity, that she is very grateful for the assistance of taxi vouchers now that she cannot drive, but she did find it very difficult in situations where proof of identification was required when she first gave up her driver’s licence. She has an identification card from the Senses Foundation, but it is not a high level document that is recognised when undertaking financial or government activities. The other area where I have become aware that this card will make a great deal of difference is for people suffering from epilepsy. Over the past few years I have had an association with the Epilepsy Association of Western Australia. People with epilepsy, because their condition is unpredictable, are unable to drive. This is a very difficult thing to deal with, especially for younger people with epilepsy. Their challenges are made worse by the fact that they have to explain why they do not have a driver’s licence. Having a card such as this that will

5288 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] help them with their identification, proof of residence and signature will certainly be of great benefit; for not only people with epilepsy, but also many people with a disability who are unable to drive. As I mentioned earlier, many Aboriginal constituents do not have a driver’s licence, or have lost their driver’s licence, but they do need some form of identification to be able to access Centrelink or to even apply for a driver’s licence. In fact, the Department of the Attorney General has been conducting open days in the northern goldfields that have been greatly appreciated by the people of the goldfields. They take with them people from Births, Deaths and Marriages, the Department of Transport licensing section, somebody from Centrelink and somebody from the Disability Services Commission. They have an open day and assist people with their identification issues, obtaining licences, getting their birth certificates and accessing benefits. This has been a greatly appreciated initiative by the Department of the Attorney General. There is a little disquiet in the northern goldfields at the moment that these open days may not continue. This has been raised with the Attorney General by the Shire of Leonora and I certainly support them. One of the issues that people in remote areas and Aboriginal people in particular face is that without the necessary identification and without the ability to apply for a driver’s licence and go through the process, they find themselves with fines or offences that end in a downward spiral that unfortunately finds them in our justice system. This is something that we really need to avoid. I have mentioned before in this house, probably ad nauseam, that 70 per cent to 80 per cent of Aboriginal people in our jails are there for non-violent offences. This is a huge cost to the state, but it is an even greater cost to those people and their families. Another issue that needs to be taken into account, particularly with people who have to leave their home community for dialysis, is not only that they are away from home and family, but often it is the elders, the leadership, that is taken out of the community. This initiative by the Department of the Attorney General is excellent and is having a benefit. The other initiative is through royalties for regions in association with the Department of Transport where they now go into jails and assist Aboriginal people to complete their driver’s licences while they are in prison. This is a really good initiative because they are legally able to drive the minute they leave prison. However, it was brought to my attention just last week, and I have written to the Minister for Transport about this—the letter is probably arriving on his desk as I speak—that one of the things about assisting Aboriginal people to apply for their driver’s licences while they are in jail is that they are unable to produce sufficient proof of identify. They have to produce two category A forms of identification, which is the birth certificate, passport side of things— which they usually can do—and two category C documents, which is about proof that they are in the community; but the difficulty is category D, which is proof of their address. They have to have proof of address to be able to apply for a learner’s permit and go through the process to get their driver’s licence. This card will certainly be of great assistance for people who want to have the various proofs of identity that will then allow them to get their driver’s licence. There is a large range of people in the community who will benefit from this. I add my congratulations to the people who have lobbied government for this, not only our seniors’ organisations, but also disability and Aboriginal organisations. It is excellent to see how we all, on both sides of the house, support this legislation. I think everyone is looking forward to seeing it come into effect. There is always disquiet about privacy and the misuse of cards such as this, but from my reading of the bill it looks like the safeguards are there and the need is more important than some of the privacy and security issues. The other thing of course is that the fee is well and truly reasonable, so it will be within reach of those in our community who will probably need it most. A $35 fee for a card that will last five years is something that we will find is a very popular and well used service that this government has brought in. I commend the government for this bill and support it. MR M.H. TAYLOR (Bateman) [5.29 pm]: I rise in support of the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013. This bill will help many members of the community who have not had access to photo identification in the past. We live in an age in which there is an increasing need for members of the community to supply photographic proof of identity when conducting certain transactions. In fact, some transactions are impossible without photo ID. ID with a photo is required for checking in at an airport counter, opening a bank account, posting international mail, opening a mobile phone account and conducting transactions with various state and federal government agencies, to name a few examples. The driver’s licence has become the de facto photographic proof of identity document in Western Australia, certainly being more convenient than a passport. This is despite the fact that a sizeable portion of the community does not possess a current driver’s licence or passport. This bill will enable Western Australians to voluntarily apply for a Western Australian photo card. This is an optional initiative. The WA photo card will bear the cardholder’s name, date of birth, photograph and signature. If the cardholder elects, the photo card may also bear their residential address, just as a driver’s licence does. Again, this is at the discretion of the recipient. It is important to note that the decision to obtain a photo card is a voluntary one and not compulsory. This card will make it easier for seniors and those with disabilities who require photo identification but have not had the opportunity to obtain a valid photo identification document. The

[ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] 5289 card will replace the existing proof-of-age card, which has only been available to younger members of the community aged between 18 and 25. This card will be available to individuals aged 16 and above—a much wider range than the proof-of-age card. Importantly, the photo card will benefit seniors who do not possess a valid driver’s licence. This may include people who formerly possessed a valid driver’s licence but for whatever reason no longer possess one. The photo card will also benefit those in the community who are not able to obtain a driver’s licence, whether due to physical or mental disability or any other reason. Other groups of people will also benefit from the new photo card, such as those who require access to photo ID, but, for whatever reason, choose not to obtain a driver’s licence. The state government recognises that we have a responsibility to ensure that people who are unable to or choose not to obtain a driver’s licence are not unfairly disadvantaged. The WA photo card will feature the same contemporary security measures as a driver’s licence, including facial recognition technology and the use of customised watermarks and holograms. These security measures are important to protect against identity theft and other frauds that may otherwise be attempted. No doubt this card will need the same anti-fraud measures as driver’s licences. Under the bill, the photo card will be managed and administered by the CEO of the Department of Transport and will be available through the department’s driver and vehicle service centres and agents throughout Western Australia. This will ensure that the application process and proof-of-identity requirements will have the same rigorous assessment as is required for the granting of a driver’s licence. Further, the photo card will make use of the department’s existing facilities and technical infrastructure and networks. This will aid in the efficient administration of the photo card system and help to reduce costs. Mitigating the risk of identity theft is a very important consideration wherever there is a licence or identity database. It is therefore important to note that this bill establishes safeguards around information management by the Department of Transport. Part 3 of the bill provides safeguards regarding the disclosure of personal information as well as creating specific offences for the misuse and improper disclosure of information. These safeguards mirror the current information protection provisions in the Road Traffic Act 1974 applying to the use of the driver’s licence information. The New South Wales government introduced a similar photo card scheme in 2005. Like the WA photo card, the New South Wales photo card is a voluntary photo identification card that replaces the proof-of-age card and provides a source of photo ID for those in the community who do not have a driver’s licence. The fee for the New South Wales photo card is also set on a cost-recovery basis and is around the same price as the proposed fee for the WA card, which is approximately $35. The validity for both cards is five years, so this proposed fee amounts to a $7 a year charge. Since being implemented in December 2005, over 475 000 New South Wales photo cards were issued. This high number is evidence of the success of the scheme and highlights the need in the community for such a card. Indeed, a review of the scheme conducted by Transport for NSW, the New South Wales equivalent of our Department of Transport, handed down its report in June this year and concluded — the Photo Card Scheme meets the community’s needs … and the continued existence … is essential. A photo identification card is essential to thousands of people who do not have a driver’s licence, many of whom come from disadvantaged sections of our community. Those who do not have a driver’s licence are usually those who are young, old or have a disability that prohibits them from holding a licence; it is not just optional. This legislation will provide them with photographic identity, enabling them to undertake with relative ease tasks that those who hold a driver’s licence take for granted. This bill clearly meets a real need in the community and I am therefore pleased to support it in this house. MR F.A. ALBAN (Swan Hills) [5.37 pm]: I also rise in support of the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013. The need for such a card was established in my family a long time ago. Both my parents are deceased but some 15 to 20 years ago my father, in his late 70s, was subject to dementia or Alzheimer’s disease and he could not drive. We had not taken a terrible lot of notice of the fact that my mother never held a driver’s licence. That is not so unusual in migrant families. Initially, the man of the house gets a driver’s licence and all of a sudden the sons and the daughters all get driver’s licences. In fact, I got mine for that very reason when I was 16. I was a farmer’s son and got a special licence. There was always someone who could drive. With the onset of dementia and old age and the fact that my dad could not drive, my mum was housebound, I suppose, and it became a very serious issue. The creation of a Western Australian photo card will be beneficial to a number of seniors and pensioners in the community for whom a proof-of-age card is not required. Psychologically, it must be quite a barrier to apply for identity to prove one’s age when one is a senior. This new identity card will go some way to benefitting many Western Australians. We addressed this very issue some 12 months ago at the Yallambee Hostel in Mundaring in my electorate. There is a similar hostel in Ellenbrook where these issues were raised as well. We were there for general discussions and the residents raised the difficulties of people getting older and no longer having a driver’s licence and the lack of photo identification to access help for services. The other reason we were there was to address the issue of the residents of Yallambee Hostel travelling to the intersection of Great Eastern

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Highway, Stoneville Road and Mundaring Weir Road on their gophers. Obviously, they had lost their drivers’ licences as well, so it is very topical that we speak of this. Their concern was the time frame of the flashing lights so they could cross safely with their gophers. We adjusted the lights. As people get older, there are a lot of issues that us younger ones heading perhaps in the wrong direction are not aware of. That is an issue that we dealt with. Mr P.T. Miles interjected. Mr F.A. ALBAN: Not so much the member for Wanneroo. The issue of age and needing the card was very important to these people. It is interesting that often when we meet these elderly people, we gain more than we contribute. One of the highlights of my five years in Parliament is meeting a lady called Dorrie Cowcher, whose 104th birthday was on that day. It was one of the most wonderful things to have happened to me. She is from Scott Street, Guildford, which is walking distance from where I live. She proceeded to tell me that she remembered the soldiers marching from Midland and travelling past Guildford Grammar on Terrace Road and Padbury’s store, near where we now live, to board the train in Guildford to go to Fremantle to board the ship to go to Gallipoli. She had a very clear recollection of it all and we spoke for quite some time about the history of Guildford. At 104 years of age, she had a very clear memory. She recently celebrated her 150th — Mr D.A. Templeman interjected. Mr F.A. ALBAN: Sorry, 105th birthday, which is really remarkable; 150 would have been more remarkable still! Presently, the key sources of proof of identity are passports and drivers’ licences. Some members of the community do not possess either document. Some people, as I mentioned, are ineligible for a driver’s licence and therefore ineligible to be issued with a driver’s licence document. This bill enables any resident of Western Australia to apply for the issue of a Western Australian photo card. It has been mentioned before that the cost of the card is $35 for five years, which is $7 a year. Any support or discount for this fee would be no doubt welcome, but I must confess that it compares favourably with other fees, such as those for drivers’ licences and passports. I initially thought this bill was predominantly about seniors, but discussions with some of my junior residents have made it clear that this is not only for seniors. People right down to 16 years old are quite excited about the prospect of the photo card. As members know, the minimum age for a Western Australian photo ID card is 16 years, unlike a proof-of-age card, which is 18 years, or a driver’s licence, which is 17 years. This enables young people with no need for, interest in or ability to drive to prove their identity, and fills a gap that appears to exist with current identification. In other words, without a driver’s licence an 18-year-old cannot prove their identity on their birthday as they are not yet eligible for a proof-of-age card. I compared the fees—the standard fee for a driver’s licence for five years is $125 and for seniors it is $62. Also, not everyone has a passport. Finally, I will refer to some of the key issues that are pertinent to my electorate. This card will directly assist those within our community who do not hold a driver’s licence, a proof-of-age card or any other form of identification, such as a passport, to prove their identity. There may well be a benefit to not only our newcomers from interstate, as the member for Southern River mentioned, but also migrants from other countries, as we obviously did, to have a local state identity card. The acquisition of a Western Australian photo card will be purely voluntary. It is available to Western Australian residents aged 16 years and over. The second reading speech states — Over recent years the Western Australian driver’s licence card has increasingly been used as a primary identification document and is relied upon as a trusted and reliable photo identification document, despite its specific purpose being to provide evidence of an authority to drive a motor vehicle. As already stated, the government understands that it has an obligation to ensure that people who are unable to obtain a driver’s licence for whatever reason are not unfairly disadvantaged. Passage of this bill through the house will ensure that the community is provided with a solution for these problems. The photo card will make it easier for non-drivers and people who require photo identification but cannot obtain an acceptable photo identification document. At present, these people are forced to apply under the liquor control framework for proof-of-age cards. The Department of Transport’s management of and administration control over the issuing process will allow the card to evolve when there are changes to identity security practices and policies. In addition, the department has the expertise and knowledge, along with the facilities and technical infrastructure, readily available to effectively deliver the photo card through its existing networks. The enrolment process and proof of identity will have the same rigour as that required for the granting of a Western Australian driver’s licence. The photo card will also contain the same security features that currently apply to a Western Australian driver’s licence card, including facial recognition technology. The convergence of the Western Australian photo card into the infrastructure developed for the Western Australian driver’s licence is a proactive step in developing and maintaining security considerations for the state government–issued photo identification for those who do not hold a driver’s licence. Accordingly, I support and commend the bill.

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MRS G.J. GODFREY (Belmont) [5.45 pm]: I rise to speak on the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013. When this first came onto the agenda, I was not convinced that it was a good thing. I felt that it was like George Orwell’s Big Brother in Nineteen Eighty-Four and we would introduce something that was not required, as I had not been contacted by anyone in my electorate on this issue. After reading the documentation and learning of the strong support for the bill, I support the bill in Parliament. I wish to speak on a few personal reflections of how this will affect people whom I know, including family. However, the first question is to ask why it is needed. The second reading speech states — Over recent years the Western Australian driver’s licence card has increasingly been used as a primary identification document and is relied upon as a trusted and reliable photo identification document, despite its specific purpose being to provide evidence of an authority to drive a motor vehicle. In the past few months I was required to apply for a working with children check as a few weeks ago we ran a Blue Light disco in partnership with the police and community youth centre. Unbeknown to me, people need a working with children check to work at a PCYC Blue Light disco. Obviously, I needed to provide my driver’s licence to verify my identity when I applied at the post office. The second time I had to use my driver’s licence for identification was when I got some financial advice from a registered financial adviser. Although this person knew me well, they had to verify my identity with the driver’s licence and take a photocopy of it. A third example is when I went to the bank to apply for a credit card. Although I wanted it for the office, it just seemed like an exorbitant amount of red tape to go through. Once again, I was required to provide my driver’s licence. Members can see how difficult it would be for people without a driver’s licence to go through the application processes for these various things. The Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013 legislates to provide this new photographic identity card. The card will directly assist those within our community who do not hold a driver’s licence or other proof of identification. The Western Australian photo card is purely voluntary and will be available to Western Australians aged 16 years and above. Last weekend I attended Nagle Catholic College in Geraldton for my granddaughter’s year 12 graduation. More than 80 students graduated on Friday evening and they each received a certificate and a key ring. The Bishop of Geraldton made a bit of a joke about these 16-year-old students receiving a key ring. He commented, “You all have a car, I assume!” In this example, a graduating student, aged 16 or 17, would find it beneficial to have a photo identity card. The Western Australian government was approached by numerous community groups—so I am led to believe by other members this evening—and there is a strong demand for a new photo card for those in the community who do not hold acceptable photographic identification documents, and in particular, those who do not have a driver’s licence. Members have given examples of their own family members. My father was 97 when he died. Up until that time, he had been very active and would drive to family members’ houses for evening meals and on the weekends. He lost his licence after he had a slight stroke. When someone loses their licence, it also affects their pride. I noticed that losing his licence was quite embarrassing for my father, and he also lost confidence. I feel that this card would in some way replace a driver’s licence. There is a lot of inconvenience for a person who does not have a car. My father had to change banks so that he could catch the bus to do his banking. The government understands that it has an obligation to ensure that people who are unable to obtain a driver’s licence for whatever reason are not disadvantaged. We have found this out as members of the community have told us how they have been affected by not having a driver’s licence. Who will administer the photo identification card? It will be administered by a current government department— the Department of Transport will administer the legislation and the photo card. Therefore, we will not create another government department. The photo card will have the same security features as the current Western Australia driver’s licence, including, as a previous speaker mentioned, facial recognition technology. The card will cost $35 and will be valid for five years. This is an estimated cost and the card will be implemented on a cost-recovery principle, and, as such, there will be no concessions. This is not an additional card and it is not the duplication of something else; it will replace the proof-of age-card. That is a good thing. The card will be issued by the Department of Transport on behalf of the Department of Racing, Gaming and Liquor and will replace the proof-of-age card. In conclusion, I believe that the positives far outweigh the negatives in this legislation. The Western Australian photo card will provide real benefits to a large number of Western Australian residents; therefore, I support this legislation. DR G.G. JACOBS (Eyre) [5.53 pm]: I will not say too much on the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013 this evening, but I will make a few comments before dinner. I want to give a personal account of my 93-year-old dad, who on 8 June, God bless him, passed on. During their later years—I think the member for Belmont mentioned this as well—there comes a time when our older parents are not really fit to drive. I have to say to members that my father’s loss of his driver’s licence was a serious loss

5292 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] of identity for him. This was on two counts. The first was the ability to have some sort of document in his wallet proving his identity. As many members have said today, the driver’s licence has become a de facto identity card. In my father’s life, the loss of his driver’s licence and his inability to drive meant that he felt he had lost his identity in the community—his networking, communication with people, ability to go down town and ability to interact with people were affected. I honestly believe that—not directly related to this bill—my father putting his licence in after a lot of encouragement from his family and, I must say, from the community really affected him. Every time I went back to Esperance after being in Perth for a few days, I would hear stories about the driving behaviour of my father. So much so that a gentle conversation was had with the constabulary. A very friendly constable, who is a friend of mine, made me aware of some of my father’s driving behaviour. After discussing this with my father in the gentlest possible way that we could, in fact, my father handed his driver’s licence in to the police. This is about identity. I have not really had the ability to look at the legislation too carefully, but from a cursory look, one could ask a few questions. How does this card differ from the much pilloried Australia Card that the Hawke government presented to Australians in 1986? The Australia Card was introduced by the Hawke government and with much resolve it tried to convince the Australian population that it needed it. Of course, that was mandatory whereas, to compare and contrast, this card is not mandatory. I have just a little bit of history. The Hawke government did not have control of the Senate, and despite Prime Minister Hawke’s resolve to foist the Australia Card on the Australian community, his efforts led to a double dissolution of Parliament. He went to the then Governor-General, Sir Ninian Stephen, who declared a double dissolution and an election was held in 1987. The Hawke government won that election, and Bob Hawke did not give up and he brought the Australia Card concept back again. The Australia Card was eventually done in by a technicality raised by a National Party member from Queensland—the well-known John Stone, who, with Ewart Smith, a retired Treasury person — Dr A.D. Buti: All West Australian. Dr G.G. JACOBS: Yes, absolutely. I think John Stone was educated at Perth Modern School in a special program. Dr A.D. Buti: Yes, he was. He was a year above Bob Hawke, and then when he was at the University of Western Australia he beat Bob Hawke in the guild elections one year, and then beat him for the Rhodes Scholarship. Each year Bob Hawke followed after John Stone. Dr G.G. JACOBS: They were both very smart men, and, as the member for Armadale said, they were originally from Western Australia. Not to be outdone, Prime Minister Hawke resolved to continue with the Australia Card until John Stone and Ewart Smith told him that there was a technicality and it would not fly. In 1987, the concept of the Australia Card was withdrawn. The mechanism, the mandatory nature and the tax implications of the card led to the concept of the tax file number. Sitting suspended from 6.00 to 7.00 pm Dr G.G. JACOBS: Before the break I was talking about the history of the Australia Card. I thought it was important for me to just give a bit of the background of that card, because the Western Australian photo card is in no way like the proposed Australia Card. This is a voluntary scheme; it is not mandated. As many members have said, it is about providing a means of identity for those people who do not have a driver’s licence, which has become a de facto identity card. I was talking about my old dad and the issues he had when he handed in his licence. My dad retired from the land and came to live in town. For the business that he did in and around some of his financial affairs, it was important for him to have some form of ID because he did not have a passport or, later in his life, a licence. I had a few questions about this bill when I was asked to speak off the cuff. For example, how many ID points will the Western Australian photo card count for? How much will it cost for the government to implement this program? What is wrong with the proof-of-age card? What is wrong with a Seniors Card, health care card or any other card that people have? We often have a legion of cards. What other jurisdictions have a similar card and what has been their experience? Indeed, can I have both a driver’s licence and a WA photo card? Where has the thrust for this card come from? Many community groups have advocated for this card, including the Association of Independent Retirees and the Alzheimer’s Australia. As we heard from other members, when our parents get on in age, often they start to have memory issues, they may be diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease and they may develop some form of visual impairment, which is very common. My old dad, God bless him, passed away on 8 June this year. Macular degeneration is very common, particularly the chronic dry macular degeneration that leads to a slow loss of vision. In my dad’s case, he could initially read the paper and watch the television but then he could not watch the TV and finally he could not read the newspaper. It is really important that those people have some form of ID, because as we have said, they cannot drive and do not have a driver’s licence. Another community group that has been advocating for this card is Blind Citizens Australia.

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There has been a lot of consultation on the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013. The bill has been produced in consultation with the Western Australia Police, the Disability Services Commission and the Department of Racing, Gaming and Liquor. I made a point about the proof-of-age card, which essentially has been administered by the Department of Racing, Gaming and Liquor so that people can prove their age when they enter licensed premises. Of course, there is a belief that the WA photo card is about a bit more than just proof of age; it is also about proof of identity. It was the government’s view, produced in consultation with these organisations, that the WA photo card should be the responsibility of the Department of Transport, as it already has a lot of the photo data and biometrics to be able to produce such a card. Other departments that were consulted and had input into this bill were the Department for Communities; the Department of the Attorney General; the Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages; and the Department of Corrective Services. I questioned how many ID points this card would count for. My understanding is that it will fit in category B in the ID area. I might go into that a little later if I have time. How much will this program cost to implement as far as the state government and taxpayers are concerned? Really, it is about cost recovery; that is, the cost of the card will need to cover the implementation of the program. As people have said, it will cost around $35 for a card. What is wrong with the proof-of-age card and why does that not serve a lot of the need? As we have described, this is about people who in some cases have some disability, visual impairment, memory loss or Alzheimer’s disease—it will cover a legion of people. I asked one of the minister’s advisers how many people will take up the WA photo card, and I thank Sam for his advice and work in this area. We heard about the New South Wales experience, where 475 000 people have taken up a similar photo ID card. The likelihood is that a lot of people will take up this facility in order to produce a category B identification document. The ID card is working very well in New South Wales, where it is also a cost-recovery program. How will someone be able to get a Western Australian photo card? It will be very similar to the way in which a person applies for a driver’s licence. The WA photo card will be a category B document. Category A documents are birth certificates; citizenship or naturalisation documents; evidence of residential status by the Department of Immigration and Border Protection; or evidence of immigration status, including an electronic visa. Most people in Western Australia will produce their birth certificate under this category. Drivers’ licences come under category B, which is the thing that the people who will be eligible for the WA photo card generally will not have. Australian or current overseas passports are also category B documents. Category C documents include credit cards, Medicare cards, security guard cards, Western Australian proof-of-age cards, student ID cards and even a recreational skipper’s ticket. Category D documents provide evidence of residential status, so these include Australian bank statements, Australian utility accounts from Western Power or Synergy, letters from a current employer, letters from educational institutions, current residential tenancy agreements or official documents from a government agency. In the current application for a driver’s licence, the requirement is generally a category A document, which is usually a birth certificate; a category B document, usually a passport; two category C documents, which we talked about; and a category D document. There is another option, of course, if one does not have a driver’s licence; category A is fine—that is the birth certificate. The option is to skip category B and provide two documents from category C and two from category D. I am advised that the photo card will fulfil the requirements of a category B document. [Member’s time extended.] Dr G.G. JACOBS: Category B is generally a driver’s licence and the photo card will also fit into that category for the purposes of identification. A lot of the historical concern about identification cards harks back to the attempts to introduce the Australia Card in the 1980s; there are privacy provisions contained within the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013, under Part 5, “Other matters”, specifically clause 21, “Confidentiality of information”; clause 22, “Protection from liability for wrongdoing”; clause 23, “Proceedings for offences”; and clause 24, “Regulations”. Part 5 deals with the confidentiality of this information. While it is on my mind, there are many advantages in the Department of Transport administering this legislation and producing the card. It already produces the driver’s licence cards and has all that data, and it has the biometrics to produce the photos. But there is another, almost unintentional, consequence of this, which is that it presents an opportunity for the Department of Transport to cross-check the data it already has in and around the issuing of licences. If any anomalies are detected when someone applies for a photo card, there could be the potential to check those anomalies within this data space. In respect of confidentiality of information, a person who is or has been engaged in the performance of functions under this legislation must not directly or indirectly record, disclose or make use of information obtained under the legislation. The bill is very stringent about the purposes relating to confidentiality and about authorisation. It is also very strict about the consent of a person to whom this information relates. The circumstances are prescribed in the regulations, as are the penalties, which are quite significant. Clause 21(2) provides that clause

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21(1) does not prevent the disclosure of statistical or other information that could not reasonably be expected to lead to the identification of any person to whom it relates. Clause 22 relates to protection from liability for wrongdoing and is one of 24 clauses in this legislation. It is good to see that there is great support for this bill; it obviously fulfils a need. There has been significant advocacy from various groups that have explained to the Parliament the need for this legislation. Like other members who have spoken before me, I support this initiative as an important ID facility for those people who do not have any easier recourse for providing identification. If we are to go into consideration in detail, I suppose one of the questions that might be asked of the minister is whether a person can have both a photo card and a driver’s licence. The member for Southern River made the point that one can actually have two photo cards— one including a residential address and one that does not, which might be useful particularly, for example, to a young woman who is going to a nightclub and does not want the bouncer to know the address on the card; she can actually elect to use a card that does not include a residential address for that particular outing, but also carry a card that does have the address to allow her to carry out other business such as opening bank accounts or whatever. I commend the bill to the house. MR R.S. LOVE (Moore) [7.16 pm]: I would like to speak in support of the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013, and congratulate previous speakers such as the members for Kalgoorlie, Eyre and Belmont, on their very fulsome contributions to this topic. This bill provides a safe, secure means of identification. As we know, in the current world, there is an increasingly important need to provide identification for certain sections of society who do not have access to a driver’s licence. I am talking predominantly about young people who have not yet reached the age at which they can be issued a driver’s licence; people who need to travel by air or for a variety of other reasons are not able to hold a driver’s licence; perhaps people who are aged and have lost their driver’s licence; people who for some other reason feel that they do not want to have a driver’s licence; or people who are ineligible for a driver’s licence. For these people, it will be of great benefit to have a standardised identification card that will provide the same level of identification as a driver’s licence for the purposes of identification. Of course, it will not be compulsory to hold this card or any other photo identification, but one can imagine how hard it must be to live in the modern world without such identification. I know that without such identification people would be turned away from the airport on occasions, for example, when they arrived to travel on domestic flights. Housing would be an issue when trying to negotiate a lease; even to book into a hotel might be a difficult issue without photo identification. Even going to the chemist to buy some Codrals may be difficult. When people buy pseudoephedrine they have to provide a driver’s licence or some other form of photo identification so the chemist can make sure that they are not buying too many packets of that drug. There is nothing worse than having a head cold and not being able to obtain pseudoephedrine; without that, I think life would be quite unbearable and I do not know how people would get by in those circumstances. There is nothing better than four or five Codrals to take away those symptoms. It is also much easier to obtain a tax file number if one has primary identification, such as a driver’s licence or photo identification of similar standing. As the member for Eyre pointed out, many years ago—in 1986, I think—the federal Hawke government floated talk about the development of the Australia Card. I remember well the furore that accompanied the mooted introduction of that card and I, along with a number of other Australians, was quite concerned about the civil liberties implications of being forced to carry identification. Although the claim was that it would not be compulsory to use that card, it actually would have been compulsory and an issue for everyone. So I thought it was very good that we did not proceed down the path of an Australia Card at that time. What has brought about the need for photo identification is not so much government regulation as the realities of modern life. We live in an increasingly difficult world in which, with electronic banking, people no longer use cash in the way they once did, people do not have a bank passbook, and there is often no physical record of bank accounts. Therefore, it is particularly important that people are able to establish their identity. There is now also a greater onus on licensees in certain circumstances to establish the age of a person. Real estate businesses also need to establish the identity of a person who wishes to sell land or property before they list that property. That is due to a number of notable cases of land sale fraud that occurred several years ago. Therefore, although no-one will be compelled by law to take on this card and it will be purely voluntary, society has provided the impetus for the use of such a card. One important aspect of this photo card is that people will be able to be issued with two cards—one that has on it the physical address of the cardholder, and another that simply proves the person’s identity and not their residential address. This will add to the level of security for people who are forced to prove their age, for instance, when entering a licensed premises but may not want to disclose their home address at that stage.

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A photo identification card will also provide a greater level of security in our modern society. We only need to think back to the events of terrorism that have occurred in recent times to know how important it is to maintain security in our society. Currently, young people under the age of 18 find it difficult to prove their identity and may have to rely on a lesser standard of identification such as a student card. Often that will not be sufficient for their purposes. Older people who wish to prove their identity may have access to a proof-of-age card through the liquor licensing authorities, and although that may be accepted for some activities and purposes, it may not provide the level of recognition that is required in all circumstances. This bill provides for a universally accepted, one-stop card. This bill is similar to the statute in New South Wales, which has proved to be effective over a number of years. Applications for the Western Australian photo card will be easily accessible from licensing centres, Australia Post and some shire offices. It is predicted that about 30 000 cards will be printed each year. That demonstrates the level of need for this card. Management and administration of the card system will be vested in the chief executive officer of the Department of Transport. These arrangements will allow for the evolution of the card over time. We only need to compare the bank cards that were first issued with the credit cards that we have now, which have security chips and things such as PayPass, to see how important it is that these cards are able to evolve to meet the needs of society over time. The Department of Transport already has myriad responsibilities with regard to administration and is the ideal choice to deliver a safe, robust and cost-effective system. Cost effectiveness is very important to a system in which we trying to achieve full cost recovery. The card will cost $35 and be valid for five years. Therefore, at a cost of $7 a year per card, that does not leave a lot of room for inefficiency. It would be ideal if, in the long term, information pertaining to a person’s identity could be retained in government hands for the security and assurance of all cardholders. This bill allows disclosure at this level only to relevant law enforcement agencies in appropriate circumstances. One important circumstance is an executor who needs to have access to a person’s photo identification when dealing with a deceased estate. As the member for Kalgoorlie pointed out earlier, lack of identification is often a problem for Aboriginal people. That is certainly the case in my electorate of Moore. I am aware of situations in which housing applications cause some difficulty for Aboriginal people due to their inability to prove their identity. Aboriginal people have informed me also of longstanding problems for young people in being able to obtain a driver’s licence, which leads to problems in sourcing employment, as well the housing issue that I spoke about earlier. I am aware of one town in my electorate in which public housing is physically in short supply, and the housing that does exist is very old and substandard. Many of the Aboriginal people in that town would like to access better housing stock, but because of the lack of applications for such housing, it is difficult to prove to the authorities that there is a shortage of housing. Many Aboriginal people are unable or unwilling to go through the processes of establishing their identity, and therefore the record keeping may not be at the same level as it is in other sectors. That acts as a barrier for those people in making valid applications for housing, thus frustrating the ability of agencies to get a better understanding of the level of unmet need in the town and supply the required housing. It is my belief that the true level of demand and unmet need for housing is masked by that barrier and the demand and unmet need is much greater than people believe. Many Aboriginal people do not hold a driver’s licence and because of earlier misdemeanours may not be eligible for a driver’s licence in the short term at least. A similar standard of proof will be required for the photo card as is required for the purpose of obtaining a driver’s licence in Western Australia. This standard of proof is based upon the national identity security strategy gold standard enrolment framework. This gold standard framework was developed as part of the Council of Australian Governments’ process to produce a standardised and robust national level of identity—a laudable objective. It has been reported to me that that standard often acts as a barrier to Aboriginal people providing the credentials that they are required to provide to obtain a driver’s licence when they are eligible to do so. That leads to an increased likelihood that these people will drive without a licence and therefore incur convictions, which will make it even more difficult for them to get a licence and to prove their identity in society. To ensure that this barrier does not disadvantage these same people in obtaining a photo identification card, I hope that there will be some revision of the evidence requirements to prove identity. Clauses 4 and 5 of the bill outline the eligibility criteria and application processes for the photo card. Clause 5(3)(a) provides that the application must be accompanied by such evidence as the CEO requires to satisfy the CEO of the applicant’s eligibility, identity and residential address. Typically in Western Australia for a driver’s licence, that has been taken to mean that the person needs to provide identity based on the following: one document of category A, one of category B, two of category C and one of category D; or, alternatively, one of category A, two of category C and two of category D. As the member for Eyre outlined before, category A documents establish the identity of the individual, and they are typically things such as an Australian or New Zealand birth certificate, Australian or New Zealand citizenship documentation, a letter of recognition of births, evidence of resident status and evidence of immigration status. Category B documents establish a link between the identity and the particular person. They

5296 [ASSEMBLY — Tuesday, 22 October 2013] include a current Australian driver’s licence or learner’s permit, an Australian passport that has not expired by more than two years, a current overseas passport and parental identification and statutory declaration—the parents must also accompany the child at that time. Category C documents are evidence of identity of a person operating in the Australian community. They include such things as a current Australian EFTPOS or credit card, a Medicare card, an electoral enrolment card, a Centrelink or Department of Veterans’ Affairs health care card, a security guard–crowd control licence, a marriage certificate, photographic student identification, photographic police or Australian Defence Force identification, a Western Australian proof-of-age card, a Western Australian working with children card, school reports less than six months old, a Keys for Life certificate, a recreational skipper’s ticket or a taxation notice issued by the Australian Taxation Office. Category D documents provide evidence that a person lives at their physical address. For that, one requires an Australian bank statement or letter, an Australian utilities account or notice, a letter from a current employer, a letter from an educational institution, a current residential tenancy agreement or an official document or letter from a government agency. All of that sounds fine, but there are certainly barriers to some sections of the community in establishing their identification. Therefore, I ask that members consider this: is there a case to improve the ability of some sections of the community to satisfy the requirements for a primary identification document such as the photo card? I believe there is. I also ask that consideration be given to having a slightly different list of criteria in exceptional circumstances, as may apply in some Aboriginal communities. From my limited research on the gold standard enrolment framework, I understand that at least when it was first worked out by the Council of Australian Governments, it allowed for such exceptions. I will quote from a publication by the identity and data working group on the gold standard enrolment framework. I have this document here with me, if members need it. Under the heading “Exceptions”, it states — 6.1 Circumstances Although a high proportion of the Australian population will be able to meet the requirements of a Gold Standard enrolment, some applicants may face genuine difficulty in identifying themselves in some circumstances. Circumstances can occur when an individual does not possess, or is unable to obtain, the necessary information or evidence of commencement or use of identity in Australia to meet the Gold Standard (e.g. some homeless persons or some persons with mental health issues). When an applicant is unable to provide the necessary POI — That is, proof of identity — credentials or verifiable information an enrolment process may entail: • lodgement of an application; • verification of the applicant’s claimed identity with authorised referees; • a face-to-face interview with the applicant; • the applicant may be required to have biometric detail recorded (e.g. a photograph); • the enrolling agency will be required to confirm the identity details by: • contacting referees who are authorised to perform the confirmation and obtaining from them the assurance that the individual is who they say they are; • if necessary, undertaking specific enquiries with persons and organisations associated with the applicant; • if the applicant is an established customer of appropriate agencies the claimed identity might be verified directly with those agencies. I believe that a more flexible process in exceptional circumstances would provide for a more inclusive society while maintaining the goal of a secure and robust identification system. Overall, though, I believe that the Western Australian Photo Card Bill 2013 is a very worthy bill, which I commend to the house. Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr J.H.D. Day (Leader of the House). House adjourned at 7.33 pm ______

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QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Questions and answers are as supplied to Hansard.

FIREARMS — LICENCE FEES 1080. Ms L.L. Baker to the Minister for Police: I refer to the most recent increases to firearm licence fees which came into effect on 1 July 2013 and ask: (a) how many licenced firearm owners are there currently in Western Australia; (b) how many new registrations have there been each month since January 2012; (c) by how much, in dollar amount, have the fees increased annually for each category of firearms licences in Western Australia since 2008; (d) what percentage of revenue from the fees and charges for firearm licences goes directly into managing the firearm licencing system; and (e) what additional resources has Western Australian Police committed since 1 July 2013 to improve compliance with licencing procedures under the Firearms Act 1973? Mrs L.M. Harvey replied: (a) 81,871 (as at 13 September 2013.) (b) The WA Police Firearms Registry System cannot provide a breakdown of how many new registrations are recorded on a monthly basis. However the following is provided: 01/01/2012 to 31/12/2012 there were 8,343 new registrations (an average of 695 per month) 01/01/2013 to 31/08/2013 there were 6,439 new registrations (an average of 804 per month) (c) [See paper 1082.] (d) 100 per cent. (e) In response to a 2009 Auditor General’s Report, WA Police increased compliance resources by 3 police staff FTE in 2010 and an additional 3 police staff FTE to be recruited in 2013-14. The compliance cost incorporated into Firearms Licence Fees is $900,000. The increased Firearm Licence Fees to cost recovery ensures the ongoing funding for compliance activities. HOSPITALS — UNFILLED VACANCIES 1242. Mr R.H. Cook to the Minister for Health: (1) How many unfilled vacancies currently exist at each metropolitan hospital and WA Country Health Service hospital for registered nurses and enrolled nurses? (2) How long has each vacancy existed? (3) What action is being taken to fill these positions? (4) Are any of these vacancies being back-filled by agency or contract nurses: (a) if so, what company is providing these nurses; and (b) if so, how many agency or contract nurses are currently filling vacancies at each hospital? Dr K.D. Hames replied: [See paper 1080.] PUBLIC HOUSING — TRANSFIELD SERVICES 1245. Ms M.M. Quirk to the Minister for Housing: I refer to the current head contract between the Department of Housing and Transfield Services and I ask: (a) can the Minister please confirm that Transfield Services have told their contractors that regular payments are ceasing and contractors are to be paid only 10 per cent of what they are owed until further notice; and (b) can the Minister also confirm that some contractors have withdrawn their services as a result? Mr W.R. Marmion replied: The Department of Housing advises:

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(a) When the Department became aware of claims from some of Transfield Services’ sub-contractors that they had not been paid and that payments were being reduced to 10%, it raised the issue with the Chairman of Transfield Services. The Chairman advised the Department that Transfield Services is surprised at the claim that some works performed in July have not been paid for and it is not aware of any proposal to only pay 10% of amounts due in October 2013. The Department has since spoken to most of the sub-contractors who have complained about non-payment and their advice is that they have now been paid. (b) The Department is unaware of any contractors who have withdrawn their services as a result. MINING ACT 1978 — UNCONDITIONAL PERFORMANCE BONDS 1247. Mr W.J. Johnston to the Minister for Mines and Petroleum: I refer to the Mining Act 1978 (Western Australia) and I ask: (a) do any bonds remain held by the government, and if yes, what is the current total amount of bonds held by the government; (b) what is the total amount of bonds released by the government since 1 November 2012; and (c) which companies have received bonds released by the government since 1 November 2012, and what amount was received by each company? Mr W.R. Marmion replied: (a) Yes Number of Unconditional Performance Bonds held: 5 083 Amount of Unconditional Performance Bonds held: $1 040 701 387 (these figures are as of 23 September 2013) (b) Number of Unconditional Performance Bonds Retired: 1 176 Amount of Unconditional Performance Bonds Retired: $242 887 660 (these figures are as of 23 September 2013) (c) [See paper 1081] for a list of tenement holders with the number and amounts of the Unconditional Performance Bonds returned to each (these figures are as of 23 September 2013). MINING REHABILITATION FUND 1248. Mr W.J. Johnston to the Minister for Mines and Petroleum: I refer to the Mining Rehabilitation Fund Act 2012 (Western Australia) and I ask: (a) what is the current total of funds held by the government; (b) how many companies have paid to the fund to date; (c) has any monies been paid out of the fund to date, and if so, how much; (d) if monies have been paid out of the fund, on what was this money spent; and (e) have any holders of mining tenements been exempt from paying the levy into the fund thus far? Mr W.R. Marmion replied: (a) The total amount of funds collected through voluntary payments into the Mining Rehabilitation Fund (MRF) between 1 July 2013 and 17 September 2013 was $2 788 662. (b) The number of tenements where the tenement holder has voluntarily opted into the MRF is 3 722. (c) No (d) Not applicable (e) If the rehabilitation cost of land that has been disturbed on a tenement is below $50 000 (thereby attracting a levy of less than $500), then a levy is not payable. Tenement holders that have entered voluntarily and fallen below this threshold are not required to pay a levy. SOUTHERN SEAWATER DESALINATION PLANT 1249. Mr P.B. Watson to the Minister for Water: I refer to the Perth Seawater and Southern Seawater Desalination Plants and I ask: (a) was any Commonwealth government funding used for the construction of these plants, if so, then how much; and

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(b) was any existing Water Corporation budget funding reallocated to the construction, and if so, from what other budget item was it reallocated and for how much? Mr D.T. Redman replied: (1) Yes, Commonwealth funding of $19.9 million was received for construction of the second intake tunnel and associated works for the Southern Seawater Desalination Plant. (2) Yes, $300 million of existing Water Corporation budget was deferred to fund the expansion of the Southern Seawater Desalination Plant to 100GL. The following budget items were impacted: • Metro Water Sources and Distribution $15 million • Metro Wastewater Treatment and Conveyance $157 million • Country Water Sources and Distribution$44 million • Country Wastewater Treatment and Conveyance $84 million The business need in these items has not diminished and funding is proposed to be reinstated over future budgets. MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT — ACCOMMODATION EXPENSES 1252. Mr B.S. Wyatt to the Speaker: I refer to applications for accommodation expenses by country members of Parliament, and I ask: (a) how many applications were submitted by the Hon Brendon Grylls MLA, Member for Central Wheatbelt and Member for Pilbara for the period between 1 October 2008 and 13 September 2013; (b) how many applications were approved for payments to the Member for the period between 1 October 2008 and 13 September 2013; (c) what was the amount paid for each individual application by the Member; (d) what dates were covered for each individual application by the Member; (e) since 1 October 2008, has the Member refunded any payments and, if so, for what amount and for what specific dates; and (f) if yes to (e) on what date was the refunded payment or payments made? The Speaker replied: (a) 34 applications were submitted during this period. (b) 34 applications were approved for payment during this period. (c)–(d) [See paper 1083.] (e) No. (f) Not applicable. MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT — ACCOMMODATION EXPENSES 1253. Mr B.S. Wyatt to the Speaker: I refer to applications for accommodation expenses by country members of Parliament, and I ask: (a) how many applications were submitted by the Hon Terry Redman MLA, Member for Blackwood- Stirling and Warren-Blackwood for the period between 1 October 2008 and 13 September 2013; (b) how many applications were approved for payments to the Member for the period between 1 October 2008 and 13 September 2013; (c) what was the amount paid for each individual application by the Member; (d) what dates were covered for each individual application by the Member; (e) since 1 October 2008, has the Member refunded any payments and, if so, for what amount and for what specific dates; and (f) if yes to (e) on what date was the refunded payment or payments made? The Speaker replied: (a) 85 applications were submitted during this period. (b) 85 applications were approved for payment during this period. However, one of the Metropolitan Expenses applications was only partly approved as the Member had reached the full 120 day per financial year entitlement (2 of the 13 days claimed for April 2012 were approved for payment).

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(c)–(d) [See paper 1084.] (e) A claim for $240.00 on 6/08/2009 was refunded. (f) A cheque for $240.00 was received on 29/10/2009. MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT — ACCOMMODATION EXPENSES 1254. Mr B.S. Wyatt to the Speaker: I refer to applications for accommodation expenses by country members of Parliament, and I ask: (a) how many applications were submitted by the Member for Wagin for the period between 1 October 2008 and 13 September 2013; (b) how many applications were approved for payments to the Member for Wagin for the period between 1 October 2008 and 13 September 2013; (c) what was the amount paid for each individual application by the Member for Wagin; (d) what dates were covered for each individual application by the Member for Wagin; (e) since 1 October 2008, has the Member for Wagin refunded any payments and, if so, for what amount and for what specific dates; and (f) if yes to (e) on what date was the refunded payment or payments made? The Speaker replied: (a) 91 applications were submitted during this period. (b) 91 applications were approved for payment during this period. (c)–(d) [See paper 1085.] (e) No. (f) Not applicable. PUBLIC SECTOR — CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICERS 1256. Mr M. McGowan to the Premier: (1) As at 13 September 2013, how many public sector agencies or commissions are without permanent chief executive officers, and what is the name of each of those agencies or commissions? (2) How many public sector agencies or commissions are currently advertising for or engaged in a recruiting process for new, permanent chief executive officers and what is the name of each of those agencies? (3) As at 13 September 2013, what is the length of time that each agency outlined in (1) has been without a permanent chief executive officer? (4) What has been the cost of the recruitment process for each agency or commission without a permanent chief executive officer as at 13 September 2013? Mr C.J. Barnett replied: Public Sector Commission (1) As at 13 September 2013, ten public sector agencies were without substantive chief executive officers appointed under section 45 of the Public Sector Management Act 1994. [See paper 1079.] (2) Advertising and recruitment processes are currently underway for five public sector agencies. Note: Attachment includes the Director General, Department of Planning which was advertised on 21 September 2013 as an impending vacancy due to the resignation of Mr Eric Lumsden PSM (effective from 5 November 2013). The recruitment process for the Commissioner, Department of Corrective Services was finalised on 23 September 2013. (3) Refer Date of Vacancy in [See paper 1079.] (4) Refer Cost of Recruitment Process to Date in [See paper 1079.] EAST MILLBRIDGE — PRIMARY SCHOOL SITE 1257. Mr M.P. Murray to the Minister representing the Minister for Education: I refer to land allocated for a Department of Education Primary School at East Millbridge in Eaton, and ask:

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(a) has a proposed start date for the construction of the Primary School been determined; (b) given that adjoining open public space will be shared by the Primary School and local residents, has the Department of Education discussed any future development plans with the Shire of Dardanup; and (c) can the Department of Education ensure that appropriate liaison will be undertaken with the Shire of Dardanup in relation to the East Millbridge Primary School’s design footprint and in particular focussing on discussions to maximise the public open space usage and traffic management and parking issues? Mr J.H.D. Day replied: (a) No date for the commencement of construction has been determined. (b) Discussions between the Shire of Dardanup and the Department of Education regarding the future development of the adjoining public open space have commenced. (c) Yes. RACING AND WAGERING WESTERN AUSTRALIA — COMMITTEE REPORT 1265. Mr M.P. Murray to the Minister for Racing and Gaming: I refer to the recommendations of the report of the Joint Standing Committee on the Review of the Racing and Wagering Western Australian Acts, 2009–2010 and I ask: (a) do you support Recommendation 26; (b) do you support Recommendation 27; (c) do you support Recommendation 29; and (d) do you support the recommendations of the submission The Racing Industry- A Pathway to Sustained Growth prepared by the members of the former Joint Standing Committee which was forwarded to both the Minister and Treasurer Buswell in December 2012, namely that: (i) the wagering tax/levy on parimutuel racing be amended from the current rate of 11.9 per cent to the equivalent of the Victorian rate of 7.6 per cent; (ii) the wagering tax/levy on fixed odds racing be amended from the current rate of 18.18 per cent to the equivalent of the Victorian rate of 4.3 per cent; and (iii) that on commissioning of the increased number of 500 gaming machines and 130 additional gaming tables at Crown Casino Burswood, the wagering tax/levies be amended to 5 per cent and 2 per cent respectively? Mr T.K. Waldron replied: (a)–(d) The member is referred to the Government’s response to the Joint Standing Committee’s Review of the Racing and Wagering Western Australia Acts tabled in the Parliament on 5 April 2011.

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