1 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

CHAIRPERSONS: Senator Mary Daugherty Abrams, Representative Jonathan Steinberg

SENATORS: Anwar, Kushner, Haskell, Hwang, Moore, Somers

REPRESENTATIVES: Arnone, Berger-Girvalo, Betts, Carpino, Cook, Dauphinias, Demicco, Elliot, Foster, Genga, Green, Gilchrest, Kavros DeGraw, Kennedy, Klarides- Ditria, Linehan, McCarty, Parker, Petit, Ryan, Scanlon, Tercyak, Young, Zupkus

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Welcome, everyone. Convening the Public Health Committee Public Hearing for Senate Bill 835, which is AN ACT CONCERNING DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING PRACTICES OF LIMITED SERVICES PREGNANCY CENTERS. We have a full list of participants today, over 80 people, so I thank you all for being here and for giving your attention to this matter. Is there any -- are there any comments from my Co-Chair Representative Steinberg?

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Good morning, Madam Chair. I'll only say what you stated. I’m also trying to keep one ear on Transportation, as I imagine others are. So if there's any problems with feedback, I imagine that's it, so we're going to be really careful about muting when we're somewhere else. This is going to be an experiment all Legislators are going to face sooner or later, as multiple meetings are going on simultaneously. Thank you, Madam Chair.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Representative Petit, was there any remarks you had before we begin?

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REP PETIT (22ND): Thank you, Madam Chair. No, I think we're ready to go and hopefully we have a good healthy discussion. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Senator Hwang, was there anything you'd like to add?

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): I concur, and thank you, Madam, for the opportunity.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Senator Somers, I don't know you're on. She too was juggling many meetings, as we all are.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Yes, I just would like to say, that's why we need gallery view so you can see us.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I am on gallery view, actually.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Oh good, I’m glad. So I wanted to just say that, like others, I’m going to be in and out of meetings. I have Transportation going on and a few others, so if you don't see us for a moment, don't think we're not interested, we will be back. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): And the fascinating thing is we're able to listen to more than one thing at once, so which isn't always the opportunity we have when we're in the building. So thank you so much for everyone, that's here. Let's begin. Our first speaker is Representative Fiorello. Representative, are you with us?

REP. FIORELLO (149TH): Thank you. I think I just became a panelist.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Good, good.

REP. FIORELLO (149TH): Okay, thank you, Madam Chair. I’m Representative Kimberly Fiorello of 3 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Greenwich and Stamford, and thank you very much for this time to speak in your public hearing.

I believe we must have always safe and legal abortions available to women as an option for her to choose, and President Bill Clinton brought into our common uses the phrase "safe, legal and rare". But he also said we have to remind the American people, that being prochoice is very different from being pro-abortion. In that sense, in America, under the umbrella of being pro-choice are the other pro's, pro-abortion, pro-parenting and pro-adoption.

As much as we hear the pro-abortion message in our popular culture, the message of pro-parenting, giving birth and becoming a parent yourself, and pro-adoption, giving birth and helping others to become a parent are just as persuasive to women, as empowering to women, beautiful and valid.

And in our state today, there are 18 licensed family planning clinics supported by bigger organizations like Planned Parenthood and the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League, and 25 pregnancy resource centers supported by groups like the National Institute of Family and Life Advocates and Care Net and Birthright.

So I think we can celebrate that women in Connecticut clearly have choices. And in the time of COVID, especially the services of both kinds of organizations were deemed essential and we can be so grateful for the kind and loving help, licensed professional care and peer support that many pregnant women in our state received at these dozens of centers during this incredibly distressing time of fear and uncertainty.

But Bills like SB 835 target specifically one kind of support for pregnant women, the pregnancy resource centers. And they've come before this body before and have come, legislation like this has been proposed elsewhere, so much so that it came before 4 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

the US Supreme Court in June 2018. The Supreme Court struck down a California law as interfering with the free speech rights of pregnancy help centers to counsel women and offer alternatives to abortion.

Fundamentally, in America, we are a country built on protecting individual rights, the freedom of speech, under which there is also the freedom of information that is so well exercised for the sake of transparency.

These principles are upheld by organizations like Hopeline, which I visited in Stamford. This is a group that strives to give pregnant women all the information they need. When you need any kind of medical procedure, whether it be dental to something more invasive, you want to understand the ins and outs of that procedure and even consult second opinions. The process of discussing medical procedures and discussing options should not be diminished, but rather enhanced.

In our country, we also have freedom of religion. Yes, many of these pregnancy resource centers are faith-based. This is different from family planning clinics. Pregnancy resource centers can take a religious angle on pregnancy and offer to pray with you as you contemplate your choices. And this is made clear in the limitation of services and the forms you fill out and sign in as you acknowledge that you are freely requesting these services. The faith-based approach appeals to some women and not to others, and we're free to agree to disagree and to choose.

And to this end, nothing should stop a Planned Parenthood from opening up next to a Hopeline and vice versa, and nothing should hinder the free exchange of ideas. That's what free speech means. These centers fill a need. Everyone has different needs. There are religious and spiritual needs and the ability to have a medical conversation with 5 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

someone other than Planned Parenthood. Some might not like that, it might frustrate you, but they do meet the needs of many men and women. Free ultrasounds, free pregnancy tests, free diapers, free baby clothes, all voluntary and with private funds.

I hope today when this public hearing is concluded that we can follow the lead of the US Supreme Court that found laws like this is a violation of freedom of speech, which we hold so vital. Pregnancy resource centers are vital part of the conversation and the exercise of choice.

Bills like SB 835 seek to infringe on the free exchange of ideas only on one side of the conversation. Upon listening to the various testimonies, for the sake of fiercely protecting free speech and the free exchange of ideas, I hope this Committee will vote no on SB 835. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much for testifying, are there any questions or comments from the Committee Members. Representative Pettit.

REP. PETIT (22ND): Thank you, Madam, Chair. Thank you, Representative for your testimony. Can you tell us a little bit more about your visit to the Hopeline Clinic in Stamford and what you experienced?

REP. FIORELLO (149TH): Yes, thank you for asking that. You know, it was very much like walking into a sort of peaceful environment, and it was very clear from how they welcome you in, and you see the framed licenses of the practitioners there, whether they are CNAs or RNs or medical doctors, much like you see in any other facility that needs to be licensed.

And they, you know, they have wonderful comforting chairs, where you sit and they ask you quite early 6 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

on as soon as you walk in to fill out some forms where they explain the services that are offered here. And in that form it's very clear what is offered and what is not. They make it clear that they do not do abortions or abortion referrals and that they are -- they offer peer counseling. And I had a chance to walk through the facility, I can see that especially in this time of COVID, their services are being used and it's -- I think they provide vital work that clearly women in Connecticut are partaking of.

REP. PETIT (22ND): Thank you for that and, again, thank you for your testimony.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Representative. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi. Good morning, and thank you, Representative Fiorello, for coming to testify. Did you mention that the centers also help men? Can you explain that a bit?

REP. FIORELLO (149TH): Yes. So what I learned there is, they have three -- three prongs of approach. One is prevention, one is intervention prevention, meaning they do speak at local schools such about abstinence how to, you know, avoid risky sexual behavior per se. They also do intervention, where they do provide pregnancy tests, ultrasounds, to make it clear that you are pregnant, how far along you are, and then to discuss the choices that you have.

But they also have recovery care and this part I thought was really quite amazing. They do make it clear that they are Bible studies, but they have one that is offered to men and I’m looking at my notes and it's called Healing a Father's Heart. And this occurs for men. It's available to men who -- who's, you know, partners may have had a miscarriage or stillbirth or an abortion. They have Forgiven and Set Free for women who have had abortions, but are 7 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

having a spiritual need to deal with any sense of, say any difficult feelings, they may be having, had, have about their decisions. They have another one called Path to Sexual Healing, Which is a Bible study for people who have had traumatic experiences. And lastly, A Time to Heal, which is specific to pregnancy loss, stillbirth situations and it's -- I found it amazing that they do really include the needs of men and how they are impacted during the time that a woman has an unplanned pregnancy. Thank you.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you for that answer and, was it clear to you what services are offered at Hopeline? Was that made very clear?

REP. FIORELLO (149TH): Yes, absolutely. There was nothing confusing. You know, it's like I said in my testimony, it's -- there are options and it's quite clear what the pregnancy centers offer that might and is different from what Planned Parenthood offers. And I think both, both bodies have a very valid role in the conversation of what women have as choices.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So thank you. So you didn't get the sense that there was any deception going on?

REP. FIORELLO (149TH): I did not.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay, thank you very much.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Are you -- are you finished Representative?

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Yes, sorry.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I guess some people, some people are having difficulty with their hand raising function, so please feel free to reach out to one of the Rankings or the Chairs or the staff and we'll make sure that you are able to ask 8 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

your questions. Next, we have Representative Carpino, followed by Representative Klarides-Ditria.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): I don't have a question, ma'am.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Oh, I'm sorry.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Just difficulty with the hand function.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Oh I’m sorry, I thought that's why you knew, because you weren't able to do it, okay. Representative Klarides- Ditria, did you have a question or a comment? Okay. Thank you, thank you for letting us know that Representative, appreciate it. Representative McCarty.

REP. MCCARTY (38TH): Thank you very much, Madam Chair and I just wanted to welcome Representative Fiorello, thank her for her testimony. And in answering Representative Dauphinais, you said you did not sense any deception in any of the advertising. And do you know when the Hopeline was founded? How long have they been in existence in Stamford?

REP. FIORELLO (149TH): I believe they've been there for quite some time. I don't know exactly when they were founded there, but it's a few years or more. They get a lot of their, you know the women who come through, more from word of mouth. And I got the sense that they've been there for a while serving many women and the word spreading by word of mouth, which takes time.

REP. MCCARTY (38TH): Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Representative. Is there anyone else with any questions or comments? Representative Gilchrest. 9 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. I too am struggling with the raise hand, so it's not just me. Thank you so much, Representative Fiorello, we haven't had the opportunity to meet so I appreciate your testimony today. And it's positive to hear you mention the full range of options because that's I think where all of us are coming from. We want to make sure that women have access to all of their reproductive health options and so, it's also positive to hear that in your own experience, there wasn't any deceptive advertising, because the point of this policy today that we're discussing is to regulate, is to make sure that false or misleading commercial speech is not permitted.

And so, I do appreciate that your experience showed that. It shows that you support that. But we're looking at the whole range of these centers across the state, and we do know that there is misleading information and speech being used. So I look forward to the conversation, and I think we all are wanting women to have access to all of their reproductive health care options, including parenting. Thank you.

REP. FIORELLO (149TH): Yes. Thank you, Representative Gilchrest, and I think that the accusations or alleges of false advertising or misleading advertising, as I’ve seen, can be said on both sides. But I think the point is that this -- this is a free exchange of ideas they are offering different kinds of services and the law, SB 835, seeks to infringe on the exchange of ideas on one side only. And there are other laws that exist and organizations that seek to ensure the, you know, fair level playing field for consumers.

So, it's not that there's nothing out there to protect people from deceptive advertising as it exists right now. But thank you.

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SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Are you all set Representative Gilchrest? Okay. Is there anyone else who has -- please just wave to me and I will, if you're having a problem, make sure that you get your opportunity. Okay, seeing none thank you so much for your testimony and for being with us this morning, Representative Fiorello.

REP. FIORELLO (149TH): Thank you, Madam Chair.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have Representative Lanoue followed by Christopher O'Brien.

REP. LANOUE (45TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. For the record, my name is Brian Lanoue, I’m the State Representative from the 45th House District comprising of five towns in Eastern Connecticut. I have submitted my written testimony on full record indicating my strong opposition to this Bill SB 835.

I had the pleasure a couple years ago when visiting the Women's Center of Eastern Connecticut in Willimantic, which is the Executive Director of the Caring Families Network, Jeremy Bradley. He is a great guy, a constituent of mine, a great organization, and this Bill puts them in jeopardy.

And I have Mr. Bradley with me that will share his testimony and give you some details on his concerns about the Bill, so I will turn it over to him at this time. Thank you.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Good morning, my name is Jeremy Bradley and I’m the Executive Director of Caring Families Pregnancy Services in Willimantic, Connecticut. Some of you may remember me, because this is my fourth year testifying against such a Bill. And I am here again to testify in strong opposition to Bill SB 835.

As the executive director of a very vibrant pregnancy center, I am very much proud of the -- of 11 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

the work and the educational material support that we provide to our clients, at no charge, since 1989. And material support, I mean those are things that would include things like cribs and car seats and diapers and clothing. It would even be temporary housing, and some of the educational support would include like prenatal care and parenting enrichment programs, mentorships, as well as utilizing our strong community relationships to connect clients with additional care.

That could be things like job placement, housing, health insurance, WIC or any other pregnancy-related referrals. I mean, all in all, we estimate that the communities of Connecticut, we probably have saved them, well over $1 million in the services that we provide since our inception, because we don't receive any money from state or federal governments. We really rely on the passion and the generosity of our individual donors to really see a brighter future for anyone dealing with pregnancy-related issues.

So, we are really excited about the privilege and opportunity to do that and hope to do that in years to come. However, this proposed Bill would really jeopardize the honest and caring work and reputation our organization is providing. We've seen year after year the Committee has been entertaining and proposing legislation that just right out accuses pregnancy centers like ours of actively lying and deceiving women. Even the name of this Bill, AN ACT CONCERNING DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING PRACTICES OF LIMITED SERVICES PREGNANCY CENTERS suggests with certainty that organizations like ours are in fact deceiving and misleading women.

Also within the Bill it's very clear that the State of Connecticut intends to target only that they consider to be limited pregnancy centers who are predominantly faith-based and bypassing current protection laws that are in place for both consumer and organizations. 12 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

As some of you may know, Caring Families was the first to challenge the City of Hartford when they passed a very similar ordinance to what we're seeing here at SB 835. And through the depositions, we again learn the City of Hartford was unable to provide even one person who claimed they were deceived through false advertising of a pregnancy center.

And again, also our time here in this Committee over the last several years have kind of netted the same results. Under subpoena Freedom of Information Act requests that we were able to provide, be provided through the lawsuit, there was no documentation of any instance of any person ever being deceived or misled in the City of Hartford.

And as part of that settlement of the case, the city agreed to provide specific definitions for vague and undefined terms in the law, and making clear that Hartford cannot enforce the law against Caring Families to restrict or compel our speech. The city also clarify the law does not apply to Caring Families, because we always have a licensed medical provider on site whenever we provide what the city considers medical service.

In essence, because we do what we say we do, the law doesn't even apply to us. So raising this Bill again in 2021 is really rife with problems. As you can see that in my written testimony, I’ve attached my previous years' testimonies because there are a lot of questions that have not been answered. There's been a lot of concerns that has not been addressed and raised in this Committee.

And these -- these would have to do with promises that have been made by Committee Members and elected officials to provide proof, as well as provide some clarification on where this Bill could, or be. So from that current pandemic that we're in and, you know, it just seems very, very discerning to see 13 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

this time and energy being put on an incomplete and misleading Bill that is based on information that has been proven to be unverifiable and, in some cases, even false. And so I really would implore every Member of this Committee to really vote no on SB 835 and really reallocate our time and our energy to places where Connecticut truly needs it.

I mean, I would love it if we could kind of join together and be part of a real, caring solution for the many families in Connecticut who needs support and be part of -- and not be part of this poorly conceived and biased Bill that will really hinder our reputation, but also will hinder the ability to provide care for our clients in Connecticut. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much. Senator Somers.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Yes, thank you for -- I’m trying to find the person who's speaking the screen, who just testified. Thank you, Jeremy, under Representative Lanoue for testifying today. I just had a question, you mentioned that you had gotten copies of the deposition for the lawsuit in Hartford that I understand was withdrawn. Would you be able to send those to the Committee, so we would be able to see that -- those depositions on what you described?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yes. I could send the depositions to the city.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay. That would be --

JEREMY BRADLEY: From the city to the Committee.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Right, to the Committee, not the city, right.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yeah, to the Committee, absolutely. Now, there's a bunch of depositions. I would, I 14 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

would suggest sending the two from the City of Hartford, Howard Rifkin, he was the attorney and he was speaking on behalf of the City of Hartford, and then there was also a person from -- from their local Department of Health. So those would be the two that I would suggest seeing, but I can send more if you'd like.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): No, I mean, because that came up, like, in our previous three years of hearing this Bill that Hartford was in the middle of a lawsuit and so as I understand that that lawsuit has been withdrawn, and having a deposition that you know, sort of counters some of the information that we've been previously been told would be, I think, helpful in decision making for many on this Committee.

The other thing is, I don't know if I heard you say this or not, but how many women has your organization helped since you've been, you know, open or your doors are open?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yeah that's a hard one to tell because, you know, there was before computers, we had paper files, so. But I mean, if we went working off of estimates of what we do per year, you know, we're talking thousands of women.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): And, have you ever received any complaints on the service that you provide? Or have you known of anybody who has complained to DCP about the services that you provide, whether they be faith-based or not?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yeah, so we have never received any complaints through the state or through our local cities at all as far as anything having to do with our organization.

However, I mean we have gotten a couple Google reviews because there's a concerted effort out there from -- from pro-abortion activists to actually get 15 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

together, like on a Friday night, open up a bottle of wine and make fake reviews on pregnancy centers all around the state. So we've had to deal with that. However, we -- they weren't actual clients. They have just been, you know, mainly college kids and folks that are kind of involved in that activist role, doing things like that.

We've also discovered to the testimony too here in the state, the Attorney General testified a couple years ago during HB 7070 that he didn't have any records of anything here in the state. As well as the Department of Health they didn't have anything, and then again through the depositions, the City of Hartford wasn't able to produce any of that.

Which was a little troubling because in my testimony here from -- that HB 7070 is attached to, from -- from that year, we noticed that the mayor and the Councilwoman Bermudez both said that they had dozens of complaints in the City of Hartford, but those complaints were not anywhere able to be documented or, you know, be produced. And so --

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Yeah, and I recognize that. I remember from sitting through those hearings, but the other thing I have to, you know, ask. Does your organization have a way to receive complaints? Because we can all say "Oh, we don't get any complaints" if we don't have, you know a process to receive them.

JEREMY BRADLEY: We -- we have internal mechanisms in our organization that we put in through surveys, and we do have a policy in place where if we were to receive a complaint and how we would go about doing that.

Interestingly enough, one of the big conversations that have come up here before was whether the CUTPA laws through the Department of Consumer Protection could actually do that for -- for pregnancy centers. And so it currently on the website, you could go on 16 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

to the website and file a complaint against a pregnancy center. And I believe, I didn't check it this year, but last year we did check and verified that all the pregnancy centers were able to, you know, you could follow a complaint against them if you had a concern.

And so that was that was the first concern, is whether you could do it. The second concern that was -- that's been raised was whether there was a gap in enforcement. And that was Attorney General Tong's words when he admits it's likely there's a gap in enforcement.

So one of the things that the pregnancy centers have been trying to lobby this Committee to do and consider, but our request had been ignored, was to strengthen the CUTPA laws so we were not unfairly targeting faith-based pregnancy centers and to strengthen them to make sure that if there is a gap in enforcement that everyone in the state of Connecticut with us is included.

We don't believe there is a gap in enforcement, but if there were, we'd ask, let's have that conversation, let's fix that gap. And that hasn't happened, and this has been several years now since this was raised. And instead of looking at that smaller and more simple, elegant solution we're here again, hopefully not for another 24 hours to talk about it.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): It I will say that, you know, I did look. All the pregnancy centers are listed on the, I think it's the DPH website, you can look at it, you can see the complaints and I did not see any myself. And I actually went to all of the websites to try, try to take a look to see if I could, you know, with an open mind look to see if I can find anything that was considered to be deceptive in any way. So I want to thank you for your testimony and I just wanted to see if you could 17 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

please send us those documents that you have, that would be helpful for the Committee. Thank you.

JEREMY BRADLEY: I can do that.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Senator. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair and good morning, Jeremy and thank you for coming to testify. I have took some time to look over your past testimonies and today's testimony and I had several questions, so if you wouldn't mind bearing with me.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Sure.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Can you list the services you provide to the community?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yeah, so I mean the services that we provide in our organization would include pregnancy testing, would include ultrasounds, would also include parenting education classes. It also would include material support for things like cribs and car seats, you know, diapers, clothing, things of that nature.

Other things that we would also be able to provide would be like being a point person to get them connected to community resources, so for things like WIC, for HUSKY health insurance, getting, you know, connected with job placements and housing. And we're not just giving referrals, we're actually available to kind of really help our clients kind of, you know, through that entire process.

Other things that we're able to do is also offer adoption connections as well, with the same kind of thing. We're not just giving a name, we're there, we're available to help them walk through the whole process, because you know, there are some different adoption plans that will be available to a client. 18 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

So, you know, we would help them navigate that space.

Of course, we also are providing referrals for prenatal care and getting them into a doctor. A lot of our experience has been with clients who experience an unexpected pregnancy. They're not quite sure what to make of it, and so they oftentimes put off some of the immediate prenatal care, so it's really important for us to be able to help them get connected and find, you know, a doctor and a place for them to, you know, to stay healthy.

Some of the other things that we provide too, I mean, are like relational mediations. So again, parent, with parents or with a partner, you know, we offer to step in and help navigate conversations and kind of advocate for our client with what it is that she would like us to help her to do.

Other things too is we have, I think as we heard mentioned before from Hopeline, we have the same kind of support programs in place for women who have suffered loss and for the men as well, who have suffered loss due to miscarriage through, through grief there. We've also started something new as well this year called SAB Anon, which is a sexual abuse and victims kind of anonymous group, a support group and a place for clients to come in and kind of really share their story and can find healing through what is some very traumatic events.

So those are a list of many of the things that we do at our Women's Center in Connecticut.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Wow, thank you. Thank you for that information. Do you have licensed medical staff like doctors and nurses available?

JEREMY BRADLEY: We do. You know, we have a medical doctor who's the director, and we also have registered nurses as staff and volunteers as well. And their medical licenses cover whatever medical 19 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

services they provide. So, you know, a lot of -- what we found out through this process is, as we move to this Committee, people don't really know anything about pregnancy centers.

So, but the state law doesn't require a pregnancy center who provides the pregnancy testing and the ultrasounds to be a registered family clinic. Although you can be, you're not required to be. And that's just because of the licensing of the medical staff. Their licenses cover all their medical practices and that's a pretty common thing here in the state of Connecticut and beyond.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay, thank you. How will this legislation impact your organization?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Well, I mean, even though this legislation hasn't been passed yet, it's already negatively impacted us. I mean outside of the time and resources that we've had to go and put into try and, you know, talk about this and stop the state from really disparaging our work year after year. I mean, we're empowering people in some places at some of the schools and agencies that believe that all pregnancy centers are deceptive because of this legislation and the testimony given here. So, this has really hurt some of our partnerships.

Some of us have even documented cases of grant funding that's been removed from us or hasn't been made available to us because of this Bill and this testimony given here. And you know, the legislation itself targets faith-based centers because it's our mission not -- because in our mission we're not providing abortion. And if you read SB 835, if we were to provide abortion, all this would go away, nobody would be concerned if there was any deception going on, and that's very problematic.

And I would say in addition, that you know, we've heard extensive testimony before this Committee where it's kind of like, where it's kind of desired 20 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

that our free speech be controlled, you know. So people are speaking, saying like statements like "We can help if you're pregnant." or "Make an appointment with us." is being considered deceptive, and I mean, that is not deceptive at all. But these are the things that we're hearing, and just reading through some of the written testimony and probably the testimony you're going to hear throughout today and into the evening, you're going to hear those same kinds of things.

Also, the remedy for some of these proposed penalties that we see would allow the Attorney General to be that lone person to enforce everything. And that really could mean squashing and compelling our speech.

One of the things we've heard a lot about over the last several years is about location, location, location. If a pregnancy center is located near a family reproductive health clinic, then that is deceptive. If they have a name that they don't agree with, that is also deceptive. And the remedy for that is to tell the pregnancy Center that they need to move or rename themselves, and that is not something I see any Attorney General or anyone in United States having that authority to do. And so I just am really concerned about this targeting of pregnancy centers.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you for that, and you brought up something that came to my mind. I read through the NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut Foundation report that they put out. And I noticed there was some conflicting reports with regard to where they put the centers. In one, in one spot they were complaining that they were near health, other health centers. And then the other, you know, in another part of the report, it was complaining that they were out in desolate areas where there was no medical providers available for the culture or the community that was there. Can you speak to that a little bit? 21 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yeah, I can speak. So I think you're referring to the NARAL Crisis Pregnancy Report that they put out in 2015 and updated in 2018. And I believe they actually called that report "The Right to Lie". So again, a very disparaging title of their report going after these pregnancy centers. And in that report, they do very much target my organization a few times, as well as other pregnancy centers here in the state. And they do it in a very clever way.

So, for instance, they'll take my mobile unit and they'll have these two statements and they'll say that, you know, there's deceptive advertising and these people are terrible and not transparent. And then they through the picture up of our mobile unit in between those two comments. And so, we kind of see that through the entire report. And that report is really littered with contradictions and with information that is not correct and not verifiable.

One of the biggest things that have happened here, and I probably brought this up the first time I testified, is that nobody is talking with the pregnancy centers. So, there's no conversation that's happening with the pregnancy centers and it really seems to me, by my experience of seeing the information that's been shared through the Committee and through those sharing testimony in favor of the Bill, that they're all coming from one document and it's that NARAL Report. That that information in that report is the information that they're referencing to be true.

And it's really concerning because again, that is not these pregnancy centers here in the state of Connecticut, and we're not part of that conversation of this legislation. So they were relying on an activist group who's really, honestly, they're allowed to do whatever they want, it's a free country, but their organization is designed to advocate for abortion. And Connecticut has very, 22 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

very, very healthy and strong laws in place for a woman's right to choose and in her reproductive health, and I get maybe there's not a lot for NARAL to do here in the state of Connecticut in order for that, but going after pregnancy centers is not okay.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you. One of the things that I noted in that report is it mentioned it said, according to the most recent national data available, nearly half of all the pregnancies in the United States are unintended. I found it interesting that you're being accused of deceptive advertising and yet Planned Parenthood, the name in itself isn't saying it's addressing un-planned parenthood, it's actually suggesting that they're working with people who are planning parenthood. Do you have anything to say about that? I thought that was kind of an interesting --

JEREMY BRADLEY: Well, I mean I know this might be your first year on the Committee, but that's been raised here several times and honestly, I think mistakenly it's been laughed off. Because I think it just really shows the, you know, the double standard here that's being asked of the pregnancy centers.

Specifically if you take a look at the at the pregnancy center in the City of Hartford, on that, that pregnancy center was located in, like very close to the Hartford GYN, which is also the same place that NARAL share an office space with. So there's clearly, there's some relationships there that's really motivated this.

But what we saw through that whole process was names like Hartford Women's Center was considered to be deceptive. I’m not 100% sure on this, but I don't believe the Hartford GYN has always been called Hartford GYN. I think their website is actually something to do with the Women's Center. So they changed their name, because they, you know, because they wanted to target a certain group of people and that's fine. But then to come back and tell 23 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

pregnancy centers that we need to be on our heels about the names we choose or, you know, where we choose to set up is very problematic.

And just to get back to your point about the location, when they were talking about rural locations, they were probably specifically talking about our mobile unit, and that's something that we really experienced some real, just terrible liable statements coming from NARAL about our mobile unit over the last couple of years.

If you took a look at one of my testimonies from -- I don't know if it was HB 7070 or the year -- see, all these things run together, but I shared on my testimony from 2019 on HB 7070 some tweaks that NARAL posted about our mobile care van. And now keep in mind, our mobile care van travels through the state and we're providing pregnancy testing, ultrasounds and community resource referrals for people who are really struggling. We're seeing people who have low incomes, we've seen people who, maybe had some situations at home where they're scared. We're seeing people who may be in this country without the proper documentation.

And so what we're doing is we're helping them to get them get connected to health and community resources that they need. And so NARAL in that tweet is -- took a picture of our van and -- and tweeted out that our van was sketchy and that there was stranger danger involved. And so, here we have this activist group going after a pregnancy center's van saying that, really implying that our van is sketchy and stranger danger. That women who are -- or men who would be involved in this van at all are going to be either molested or killed because that's -- that's what that means right? Stranger danger is what we tell our kids to stay away from that van giving candy.

So, this is the kind of just juvenile activity that's been going on the back end of this and it's 24 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

really concerning because again, my experience has been that the Committee has relied heavily on the information that NARAL is providing, and that information is more than suspect. Some of it's very misleading and some of it's just untrue.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you for that. Do you have any concerns over the definitions provided in Section 1 of SB 835?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yeah, let me -- let me grab that Bill, I have it in front of me here. Yeah, so I mean, just looking at this, I mean -- I mean the first appears the definition that's used in legislation has been borrowed from the NARAL definitions, that's in that very report. So that very report that we're talking about has these definitions in there. So you can, you can clearly see that it's the same people that are involved in putting this together.

So, the first thing right off the bat is the first definition is given about abortion, so it's really a clear indication that this Bill opposes pregnancy centers because of their faith-based beliefs about abortion. I mean also when we're defining abortion, I would probably also make a suggestion that maybe surgical abortion should be included and not undefined.

Moving on to the second part, where the clients go, I mean we wouldn't -- we wouldn't count a person who calls or enquires a client. So, you know, I would agree with that assessment, that's somebody who's calling or enquiring. A client is somebody that has walked through our doors and agreed to receive our services.

You know, I think though the definition, we had the same problem with the City of Hartford's ordinance, and we have the same problem here with the state Bill, is this idea of health information is way too vague. And the -- and what could constitute as 25 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

health information could have anything to do with having a headache or, you know, having a pimple and it's just, it's so vague and so unspecified.

Moving on, I think, to the next part here, let me turn the page. I think it would be great for the Committee if they could tell us who are these medical providers as defined by the state and federal law? This was something too that we've gone back and forth, both here in the Committee and with the City of Hartford, is their inability to say who they consider to be a medical provider. Is it doctors, is it nurses, is it midwives? Or is it an LPN, is it a CNA? I mean, there's all these things that aren't being defined.

The City of Hartford just kept saying, well, you know, whatever the state says. And so we really need to know what this -- what the state is recognizing in a term like that.

You know, the prenatal care, I think really needs to be flushed out as a definition and again, we had the same issue with the city, the city of Hartford's ordinance. The Committee kind of in the past hasn't really wanted to flesh that out, but I mean, we really need to come to an understanding of what prenatal care is.

I think if we move to No. 9 when we're talking about pregnancy services center, I mean, we see two different kinds of names being used in this Bill, so the Bill is being is being called limited services pregnancy centers, but we're defining pregnancy services center. So, I mean, maybe this has to do with the fact that things were just copied and paste and people aren't really good at putting this together. But we're just seeing in the Bill that, like, two completely different terms being used. So we're defining a term that we're never using and the term we're using isn't being defined.

26 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

And again, I think when we're talking about prenatal care, I definitely think that prenatal care includes more than laboratory tests and pelvic exams.

So, I mean, as far as Section 1 goes, those are some of the notes that I had that I think are just really lacking.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you. Can you speak to Section 2? Do you have any concerns with the regulations being set forth?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Well, I think again so we're back to now using a pregnancy service, services center term is now being called limited service pregnancy center, right? We see that change in the -- in the wording right there. The Committee, I mean I don't know, they must have really rushed through this because we're seeing that, that -- I don't know. I'm just -- I’m just looking at this and then I'm just seeing that as we're going through this, one of the biggest things that stick out is this idea that they're going to regulate the internet.

I mean, we had this long -- I sent this amended testimony a couple years back about this because, they want to control the way that -- it was suggested the Committee should control the way that Google search results come up. So, I mean, I think that's very problematic.

And then this idea of pregnancy centers being responsible for omitting information, that to me seems very vague. And, you know, how would we know what the state would want us to say? You know, especially when the Attorney General would be the one deciding that. So that omission too, again, that was a very strong point that we raised in this, you know, Hartford's ordinance as well.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, when we're comparing the two different kinds of services that are available, with the limit -- while the pregnancy 27 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

centers and perhaps Planned Parenthood, would you say that, can you tell us what perhaps the pregnancy center would offer that Planned Parenthood wouldn't?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yeah, so I mean, I’m sure we offer some of the same services like pregnancy testing and ultrasounds. Perhaps maybe the reason for our ultrasounds might be -- it might be different than their reasons for them. Also, we would also be part of the options counseling as well, the decision aid if a client wanted to kind of process her situation and walk through some things with us. So those would be things that I know that we would -- we would have in common. But the difference there is all our services are provided free at no charge to our clients.

There's no insurance, there's no sliding scale. These services are free because the cost has been provided for them by private donors. But some of the other things, and I listed them out of early on that we do differently would be the material support like the cribs and the car seats. Some of the other things that would separate us would be some of our support and healing groups, whether it has to do with miscarriage loss or sexual abuse, assault. Again our constant contact with our clients, our willingness to kind of walk them through any type of paperwork or process, whether it's WIC or job placement.

You know, one of our staff sat down with a client just a few days ago to help her work through her resume, as she was trying to get ready to get back out into work now that her baby was old enough.

And so these are the kinds of things that we're doing that I know that Planned Parenthood's doing and, I would never be one to say Planned Parenthood needs to do this, and so I would also be one to not say a pregnancy center would need to do this as well.

28 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So you're saying that you're being called a limited pregnancy center simply because you don't offer abortions? Is that a fair statement?

JEREMY BRADLEY: That's, that's what it appears to me, that our services are limited because we don't provide abortions. Now maybe somebody can make a case that we're limited because we don't provide other medical services but we're not seeing those other medical services being provided in here. The medical services that are in the ordinance would include pelvic exams via prenatal and maybe contraception, but specifically abortion, that seems to be that defining difference on why they would want to call us limited.

And I mean I also kind of really, I'm bothered by that statement because the things that we do for our community, I would never use the word that we're limited in what we can do. I feel like there's a lot of things that we do and we're very proud of those things. So that word limited is, I mean, is limiting, you know, to -- to what we're really doing out there.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you for that. And it sounds as though you do some unique and interesting things, one of those would be going into the communities that don't have health care via your van. Is that something that Planned Parenthood does as well?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Well, interestingly, I don't believe they do it in Connecticut, but I think they have done that in other parts of the States, so I don't know how successful that was for them. But for us, we've had a lot of success being able to do that. We've been able to get into communities where people don't have, you know, easy access to public transportation or even their own transportation. So in areas like Hartford and New Haven and Waterbury and Manchester, you know these areas have really 29 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

benefited from our presence there and we're glad to do that.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Do the Planned Parenthood centers offer spiritual counseling and some of those others that in particular Representative Fiorello mentioned that they have here in Connecticut? Do they have those at Planned Parenthood?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Well, I don't know. I don't know if they do. I mean I’ve heard this conversation brought up. It's definitely not something that they would specialize in but I think that maybe some Planned Parenthood's would be equipped and able to put you in contact with someone, maybe? But I don't know.

But, you know, again our missions are different. They're not the same things, so I’m not one to compare myself or keep track of what Planned Parenthood's doing. I’m focusing on what Caring Families is doing through the Women's Center of East Connecticut, mobile care and providing the resources and support that our clients and our community are asking and needing.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Representative, I beg to interrupt at this moment. You've really asked a lot of questions. I do know there are other people who would like to ask questions. If I could ask you to confine it to one more question, and maybe we'll come back to you later.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. So, you know, you've mentioned some limitations that perhaps both organizations have. So would you say it would be fair to say that the limited services pregnancy center name for your organization is unfairly proposed, in terms of comparison?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yeah I would absolutely say that. And again, also knowing where that term originated from, through NARAL, I would -- I would very much be against that. 30 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you. And Mr. Chair, I would appreciate an opportunity to come back and speak to Jeremy some more. I am new to this Committee. I did review much of his testimony and I am trying to get to the bottom of some of the questions I have. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): I fully understand, Representative. We will afford you that chance, we just -- you've been -- you've asked more questions than I can even keep count of at this point. And I did want to afford some other people an opportunity as well, so thank you for understanding. Representative Linehan, followed by Representative Gilchrest.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate all of that. Sir, can you please again state your name and your organization for the record? Because it says Representative Brian Lanoue on the seat, and I'd like to address you by name.

JEREMY BRADLEY: So my name is Jeremy Bradley and I’m with Caring Families Pregnancy Services.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): And, are you here today representing your personal thoughts or are you representing the thoughts of the organization for which you represent?

JEREMY BRADLEY: I would say both, they are in line.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): Excellent. So earlier in your testimony you said, and I quote, that your center has bad reviews because women on a Friday night open a bottle of wine and put bad reviews. Do you believe that that is truthful? Do you have evidence to back that up?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yes, I have evidence of that and I can -- I can support that to you. It's part of a 31 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

campaign that has gone on over the last several years of writing fake reviews, yes. I'll provide that to you.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): Excuse me -- excuse me. So you've been -- I just want to state for the record here. You've been in women's living rooms where they've opened a bottle of wine to have a party and say bad things about your pregnancy center. Is that what you're stating as fact, sir?

JEREMY BRADLEY: So, I can provide you information where that kind of activity was encouraged.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): Ok, I’m not asking if that was encouraged, I am asking if that was fact.

JEREMY BRADLEY: I just told you, I can provide you information where that kind of behavior was encouraged. And that's a concern of mine.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): Okay, so your answer then -- so your answer through deductive reasoning is in fact that that is not known as fact and that is instead hyperbolic and inflammatory, isn't that correct?

JEREMY BRADLEY: My -- my answer, I think you're missing the biggest problem here.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): I am not missing any problem.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Ma'am -- ma'am may I speak? Thank you. The biggest problem here is that people are going on Google and posting fake reviews and disparaging an organization that they've never visited or been in contact with, that they don't know anything about. That's the problem and that's the concern. I know you're --

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): I am going to ask that you do not interrupt the speaker when you've asked a 32 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

question. Allow him an opportunity to finish answering. I apologize, sir.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): My apologies, Mr. Chair.

JEREMY BRADLEY: I was just going to say, because that's the issue here, and because this is an encouraged behavior, that's the kind of things that we've had to deal with. And it's concerning to me. it's concerning but I mean maybe, maybe it's not concerning to other people because, you know, that's not part of their day to day. But to have people, you know, write bad reviews and negative reviews about the organization that they've never been in contact with, never been to, you know, that's really trouble.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): So, my concern is that you would come on here and say things and represent them as fact when you don't actually know that they're facts, because you've never been in that living room where someone is opening a bottle of wine and putting those comments. If you wanted to be truthful, you could have said that there has been evidence that you've seen, which would say that this kind of behavior was encouraged, but that is not what you said. What you said was that you represented it as fact that that was indeed happening.

So my question for you is, additionally in your testimony, you stated that you are concerned that the name of this legislation actually gives your organization a bad rap and makes people not trust your organization. But I would submit to you, Sir, that when you come on and testify in front of a Legislative Committee that is a matter of public record, that is televised for all to see, that making inflammatory and hyperbolic statements that are not actually rooted in fact, but it was simply something that you thought you saw was encouraged online, that that would give your organization perhaps a worse reputation of not being able to tell 33 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

the truth. Instead of a Bill that simply states that an organization that has deceptive practices is not allowed to do so.

Because in one, on one hand you're telling me that your organization doesn't participate in deceptive practices. But on the other hand, during your testimony when you're trying to convince Committee Members of that, you are blatantly saying something that cannot be proven by facts and it is hyperbolic and inflammatory. So you could see where I would have a big concern about that. Can you agree with me, at least on that point?

JEREMY BRADLEY: I can't, because I’ve provided you clarification on the context and you haven't accepted that. And there's not much more I can do I’m willing to provide you information to support the statements that I said. You know, but I mean if you really want to talk about a person's word, if you looked at my testimony that came from last year on SB 144, and this is in regards to your own personal testimony on HB 7070. In there you had -- you had testified before the Committee that you would produce the complaints that were made to the Public Health Department against pregnancy centers. Those complaints have not been done, and this has been an ongoing thing of -- where we're hearing public officials and elected officials and they're not following through on the things that they're saying in front of testimony.

So, I am equally concerned too that you would testify before the Committee that those complaints, that you would produce these complaints. But these complaints are not being produced.

In my testimony, again from last year on SB 144, I have that link, the video link and the corresponding timestamps to verify what I’m saying. And again, I recognize that you're -- you're a big supporter of women's reproductive rights and I’m not here to step on that for you or for anyone else. I’m here to 34 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

stand, stand in the place here to defend that pregnancy centers can exist without interference from people who just have philosophical different views.

And it sounds like to me that you're coming after me personally, trying to take this one comment about drinking wine, and trying to turn it into something that it's not. The issue here is there's people that are lying about reviewing businesses, specifically pregnancy centers and you don't care about that. You care about how much or whether they consumed alcohol in the process. That to me is not what should be happening here at the Committee.

What should be happening here, we should be listening to what you're hearing from the pregnancy centers as real problems, real challenges, and real problems with this Bill, and not trying to pick apart words like that. That's not fair.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): Okay, I just have one final question for you, sir. I just want to point out that you tend to go off on tangents that don't actually answer the exact question, so I would like to point out that in my testimony I referred to the NARAL report and that report is available, and that report was made to the Committee.

But finally, I just want to ask you one final question and then I’m going to move on. I would like to know if your organization does not engage in deceptive practices, you even said for yourself that this Bill wouldn't actually apply to you. So in just a one-word answer so that we can have it, we don't go off on a tangent and around in a circle, do you believe that when this Bill passes, that it will actually apply to your organization or not?

JEREMY BRADLEY: So, first of all, I have a problem with this idea that you're saying I’m going on tangents. That doesn't seem a very professional thing to be saying to a person -- 35 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): That's not unprofessional, I'm just looking for an answer.

JEREMY BRADLEY: In addition to that, just to clarify the comment that I made about it not applying to us was in context to the City of Hartford's ordinance because of the settlement agreements that did not apply to us, not because of SB 835. I was talking specifically to the ordinance settlement from the lawsuit.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): So, do you or do you not believe that this Bill will apply to you?

JEREMY BRADLEY: It absolutely it'll apply to me.

REP. LINEHAN (103RD): Great Thank you very much. No further questions, sir.

JEREMY BRADLEY: It will apply to every single pregnancy center.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): No further questions. We'll move on to -- I’m sorry. I’m sorry I missed that.

JEREMY BRADLEY: I think she hung up on me.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): She's still present, so if there's anything else you wanted to say in response to that question. If not, we'll move on to Representative Gilchrest.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here, Mr. Bradley. I just wanted to respond to the exchange regarding the name Planned Parenthood. I am new the Committee as well, and so I didn't partake in that discussion last year. But the history of Planned Parenthood, is that it was founded by individuals who both studied how to make birth control and then created birth control, and then fought for the right for women to be able to access birth control. And so birth 36 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

control helps women both plan pregnancy and also plan parenthood. And so I just wanted to clarify that piece.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Can we just -- can we also add too about, I mean, I have some concerns about the founding of Planned Parenthood as well. I mean you seem to have left out the part about Margaret -- Margaret Sanger and Eugenics and wanting to clean the world of other races, so I think that, you know, if you're going to try and rub something like that in my nose, frankly, you should add that as well.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Well, sir, I wasn't trying to rub it in your nose and there is quite a bit of history about racism in the women's movement and so, I'd be happy to have that conversation with you offline. I think it's an important conversation to have so we can learn and grow.

The other piece I wanted to mention is that this Bill, back to the main point, is that the Bill is meant to prohibit a certain category of free speech, that of deceptive commercial speech. And so Planned Parenthood is a 501c3non-profit that's licensed by DPH as a family planning clinic. Again, there's that family planning, and so this legislation fills a gap because organizations, agencies like Planned Parenthood are already covered under CUTPA.

And so I just wanted to bring us back in my mind to the main point of the Bill. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. Representative Zupkus.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker -- thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to just go back for a second, because you had mentioned how this would affect your organization and I’m curious as to how it will affect you.

37 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Well, again, as one of the points that I’ve already laid out, just for the record, is it me or?

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): No I can hear you.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Okay, so. As I’ve laid out some of the points here previously in the testimony, you know, we've already experienced some of the negative effects of this Bill because there are people actively saying that pregnancy centers are being deceptive and misleading. And what we will see through the testimony, written testimony and public testimony I think again this time, is you're going to have some people that are going to say, "Oh, it's not all pregnancy centers." However, they're very reluctant to say which pregnancy centers are which, and which aren't.

But there are going to be folks who are going to say that it's all pregnancy centers that are being deceptive. And there's written testimony that's been submitted to the Committee already that says it's all pregnancy centers. So this is, this is the active narrative that's already happening, so I think that's the first part.

The second part of it too is, what is considered to be deceptive advertising? Again, when we start looking to see the things that are being brought up and being told to be deceptive, I would not ever think them to be deceptive. I have a lot of other folks that are in different industries that would agree as well. And, so there's a concern there that there's these differing ideas on what they consider to be deceptive.

I think that when the time comes, and the Executive Director for NARAL testifies later this afternoon or evening, in her testimony, she actually screenshots two things that she considers to be deceptive that I would not.

38 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

And some of the other things that have come up constantly is this bus ad that I think a pregnancy center, Birthright runs, that says "Pregnant? Need help? Pregnant? We can help." That is being called as being deceptive.

So here's my concern. There's things that we're doing that I am 100% confident about that's not being deceptive. However, people are going to not like what we're doing, and in that effort they're going to say that this is happening and this is deceptive. And so my biggest concern not just for my organization, but for our like organizations, is we're going to be spending a lot of time in court. We're going to be spending a lot of time fighting every time something happens or we are being accused of with the Attorney General.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Do you have -- do you get any money from the State of Connecticut for your organization?

JEREMY BRADLEY: No, we're privately funded. We don't receive any money from federal or state agencies.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Okay, and in talking with the - - about deceptive, isn't there a law already that prohibits deceptive advertising?

JEREMY BRADLEY: It is, and it is through the consumer protection, but the argument is whether a pregnancy center is covered under that law. And again, I’m just reiterating, the simplest and most elegant solution is just to close that gap. This way, in the event that there was deception happening through a pregnancy center, there would be appropriate and due process to investigate it.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): I would agree with that., I think if it's the law it is already covered, so I would agree with you on that point. Thank you.

39 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Are there other questions? Again maybe some of you are unable to raise your hands, but I do see Representative Dauphinais is still able to raise her hand, and if there is no one else, we will return to you for the second time, Representative.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair and I apologize. I was not part of this Committee prior to and I’m just trying to get the best understanding I can and take the opportunity to ask Jeremy questions that I had wanted answers to.

So thank you, Jeremy. As far as Section 3 goes, because we were going through the Bill, do you any concerns about the remediation that is being suggested?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yeah, and I think that this is -- this is the area where the Attorney General could really end up compelling speech of the pregnancy centers. So, one of the differences between what we saw in the City of Hartford's ordinance and this Bill SB 835 is the City of Hartford also had a second part to it that would require pregnancy centers to post the sign that they don't provide medical services. And this was a very wonky part of the ordinance because it wasn't clear that if you had to put like the essence of putting an out-to- lunch sign for every time your doctor left the premise, that you have to say you don't have a doctor on site.

And, so we really worked through that. But because of that part of the ordinance we've heard this raised, I believe this wasn't part of last year's ordinance as well. So, part of that discussion is well, we're not looking to tell pregnancy centers what to say. But when we start looking at that remediation part of this, it could absolutely be part of the Attorney General's determination to say to a pregnancy center that they have to say this or they have to say that, as in response. 40 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

There's also a, you know, a financial component to the fines that would be -- would be very difficult for pregnancy centers. I mean, again, I can't imagine that we live in a world where the Attorney General never mistakenly does something. We see this all the time and nobody's perfect. Sometimes things aren't what they seem, sometimes new information comes to light, you know, and sometimes people are just wrong.

And so, you know, and I’m thankful for the court systems and legal systems here to protect us, but in this case, I mean, the pregnancy centers could really be finding themselves in regular fights and you know, trying to protect the speech of what they say.

Again, one of the things that have come up many times in this Committee was whether a pregnancy center would need, on the first sentence of their website or their material, "We don't provide abortions." And, this is just really contrary to what all businesses and organizations do. This would be like Planned Parenthood saying we don't provide Bible studies or, you know, or things like that. I mean, organizations don't lead with the things that they don't do.

And again, the people and the folks that are behind this that are looking to target pregnancy centers have an ideological difference in opinion about abortion and again, that's a concern of ours. So as we say it's not being, you know, infringing on our First Amendment, it's not infringing on our freedom of religion, and you know, it's so narrowly tailored, but I think it's too narrowly tailored if that makes sense. Because it really shows the cards and it shows the cards that, you know, if you're not providing abortion in the state of Connecticut, you're going to be under a different set of laws than everyone else.

41 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, and you make a good point, and thank you for that. That you would go into a business, they wouldn't tell you what they don't sell, they would promote what they do sell. And so I thank you for that answer.

You had mentioned that this is the fourth or fifth year of you opposing similar legislation. What kinds of conversations have transpired before about deceptive advertising?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Well, I mean, I think the most troubling part is again that no pregnancy center has really been consulted in the time leading up to these Bills, and we've asked to be. I brought this up either a year or two ago, and you know, I think I was politely told that, you know, this is your time. This is, your three minutes is your time to bring this up. But there's -- there's a lot to really hash through, there's a lot to learn and discover about what's happening here. Every pregnancy center is different, but a lot of us are the same.

So, you know, I think that one of the things that we've seen happen after all these years is that we're not being included in that. Also, again, I mean if we could reference my testimony from -- from last year for SB 144, I kind of have a list of things that have kind of transpired here that I think are kind of important to touch on.

One of the things is too that we heard the City of Hartford, and I mentioned this already, Mayor Bronin Councilwoman Bermudez testify that there were dozens of women who were subjected to deceptive practice in Hartford. There's none of that again that's been proven or been able to be documented. We heard that, you know, again Attorney General Tong was unable to verify any complaints a couple years ago when he first came in.

Another thing too is Representative Gilchrest testified in regards to this NARAL report that I 42 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

would consider to be inaccurate and just littered with, with mistakes and misleading information. Where, you know, so she testified about this report, which she was the previous executive director for NARAL.

And she said that she was unable to even confirm if any of the instances in the report took place here in Connecticut, so she wasn't sure what happened here in Connecticut, what didn't happen here in Connecticut. And so there was just a lot of just things there that we weren't able to verify, you know?

We also saw that supporters of the Bill suggested that the reasons why no complaints were ever made were because women were scared and vulnerable. But, you know, that's -- that's not something that has been our experience in pregnancy centers. We see very, very brave, very empowered women who are able to take care of business with their families, so. I think there's a more feasible option why we haven't heard any complaints and that's because there aren't any complaints.

Also in that testimony it's important, I also kind of put down some of the things that we've discussed as being deceptive advertising and again, these are the things that are being spoken about in, you know, in reference to the ordinance, excuse me, the Bill, but also being spoken by testimony. So some of the things that we talked about is the actual location. So where our building is located in proximity to another family clinic would be considered deceptive.

Also, their names and even the communities they're in. We're hearing that pregnancy centers are in the wrong communities. They're by schools or they're by medical offices or they’re in low-income neighborhoods. So all these things have been suggested to be deceptive.

43 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

You know, even the organization names, you know, and what colors and fonts they use have been considered to be deceptive, which is really interesting because what is this -- this idea of the Hartford and I know you're new to this Committee, but the Hartford Women's Center in Hartford is a pregnancy center that's been accused of copying the signage and the font size and coloring of the Hartford GYN and that's deceptive.

However, if you take a look at that whole complex, everybody in that complex as the same color sign with the same size fonts in the same color, so obviously it's a conformity issue that's happening in that complex that's part of whatever that lease agreement is. But again, these are the kinds of things that people are saying are these, you know, deceptive things that are happening.

And you know, this one really surprised me was the kinds of clothes that people would wear and whether they were being deceptive. You know, and we talked so much about white lab coats and we even started hearing about that a little bit already. It's this idea of a person in a white lab coat if they're not a doctor.

And this is the part that really gets me is a person, the doctors that I know when I’m interacting with them, they don't wear -- they don't wear white lab coats. They're in a tie or a sweater. But for the reason you wear a white lab coat is to keep things off of you, right? That's the purpose of these white lab coats. That's why you see people who are butchers wear a white lab coat, or even a pharmacist. It's whatever the chemicals or products they're using, they're using that coat to protect them from that.

And so to insinuate that a person in a pregnancy center because they have scrubs on, again, I’ve seen a lot of receptionists in medical places wear scrubs, so just to have scrubs on or a white coat to 44 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

be an indication of deception really, really gets me.

And this is the irony of it is I’ve seen UConn medical students come in over the last couple of years to testify in favor of this Bill in white lab coats, at like seven or eight o'clock at night.

And so again, lab coats are really the indication that you know, to protect your garment from, you know, your undergarments or whatever from it, why are they coming out in public for it? So it's just, it's just really wonky watching this back and forth about, you know, what people can wear for clothes and stuff.

And this ordinance is even talking uniforms, so a shirt that has a logo, our embroidered logo now is an indication that you're a pregnancy center. That makes no sense at all, because that same thing is true for my mechanic that changes the oil in my car. And it's just really a really strange way of kind of, you know, trying to determine what a pregnancy center should or shouldn't look like.

You know, and I would probably also say that, you know, my last point was the words in which the organization uses or doesn't use. Representative Gilchrist suggested pregnancy centers co-op the language of reproductive justice. And so now what was -- what was being suggested by even a Representative that is on this Committee when she testified last year is there are certain words that were allowed to use and not use. And we're not saying we provide abortion. That's not what's being, you know, being called up. Words like empowerment are even being called into it. And that's a place where the government has no business in being, is trying to you know tell you which words, which sequence of words you can do that.

You know, again, I support this idea of all organizations being able to say what they do and 45 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

stand by that, but there are mechanisms already in place that could regulate and protect both the organization, if they were false claims made, and also protect the client if some harm were to come from them.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Excuse me, Representative I’m going to step in. I apologize. I know you're new to the Committee. We are very eager to hear from everybody who has signed up today. I believe you asked questions now entering into the double digits. As a matter of courtesy, as much as we appreciate that, I’m going to ask that you ask no more than one more question today to this specific individual so that we can move on.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, I did have several other questions and I would have liked to have gotten the answers to those from Jeremy, but I will ask, so what did you mean when you were speaking about elected officials not providing proof? I was not part of the past testimony so I don't know exactly what you're referring to.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yeah, so I kind of already touched base on that. We heard, we heard some folks like Luke Bronin, Mayor Luke Bronin, Councilwoman Bermudez Representative, was it Gilchrest, I believe I mentioned, and they were supposed to provide some of this clarifying information, and that stuff has not been provided over. And it's really hard, because this Committee seems to be the only time anybody wants to talk about this issue, so when this Committee is over, it's over and nobody follows up on these concerns and these open-ended things.

Even last year, Representative Michel had told me when I testified that he had in hand proof of deceptive advertising from a pregnancy center. I asked for it, and he couldn't find it and he was looking for it, and he promised that he would email it to me and I haven't seen that. And, you know, I’m not saying that deception can't happen, but my 46 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

biggest concern is the things that people are saying are deceptive aren't deceptive.

And I think that this is the issue at hand. That sometimes people just don't like or agree with the message you're saying and that's not the same thing as being deceptive or misleading. That's just having a different opinion.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, I thank you very much for the answers to the questions that I had. I would have liked to the opportunity to hear more about the lawsuit in Hartford, perhaps maybe another Legislator will ask you to elaborate a little bit on that, but thank you, Jeremy.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. I do apologize, in this Committee we do try to give everybody a chance to speak and we have a lot of people on the list. I’m not sure what other Committees have allowed you, but in this case we try to limit it to a modicum of questions and not basically indefinite. Senator Anwar.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you, Mr. Chair. If you would be able to help me, thank you for your testimony and I just wanted to ask you, do you know why the American College of OB/GYN, all the physicians in the Connecticut State Medical Society are supportive of this Bill, in less than 10 seconds?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Do I know why? I mean, what does their testimony say? I mean, I don't work for them. So, I mean you may need to clarify what your point is.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): You don't know, but okay. Don’t worry. Thank you, I just wanted to, and again, I may not agree with your white coat argument I am wearing a white coat and --

47 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

JEREMY BRADLEY: But you don't wear your white coat out to dinner, do you?

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Well, no but I don't think also --

JEREMY BRADLEY: That's my point, sir. Is that we saw people just wearing it just to make -- give the impression that they're doctors, and that that's happened here. And I don't think that that's a good criterion for determining what a pregnancy center is or isn't.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And again, we're all passionate. Sometimes when we are yelling and screaming I think we lose our argument, but thank you so much for your testimony.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Good, well, I mean, maybe one of the things to consider too is, you know, these other agencies that may be in support of this Bill. I would ask them, have they visited or interacted with a pregnancy center? And if they have relationships with them and have interacted with them, I would think that they would have a little more weight in their conversations. But what we're finding is we're hearing people who aren't actually familiar with the pregnancy centers here in Connecticut.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Mr. Chair, I am done with the question. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Senator Anwar. I just wanted to respond considering my name was brought up, so as I mentioned I wasn't on the Committee last year and I was asked about the testimonies that I referenced. And on February 15, of 2019 I did email the entire Public Health Committee to link them to the testimonies I was referring to which are located in the 2018 report. Obviously you explained that you don't validate that report, but in the back of that report, are testimonies from Connecticut women. Anyone else 48 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

with questions or comments for Mr. Bradley? All right, thank you so much, Mr. Bradley.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Wait a minute, wait a minute. Representative Gilchrest, there are two people. If you open the participants window, Senator Hwang. You have your hand up.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Oh, I see. Sorry about that. Senator Hwang.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): Madam Speaker, I believe Representative Kavros-DeGraw came before me so I’d be happy to defer to her first.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Okay, thank you, I just opened up. Representative.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Just briefly in terms of the white lab coat, you know, I just wanted to mention that that's a really big ceremony when doctors receive that. It's actually been since 1993, I’m sure Dr. Anwar can attest to that. It's a really big deal when they are awarded their lab coats and I understand that there are other, you know, professions that might wear them.

But perhaps I missed it, but are there specific medical procedures that you're performing that that would be the reason why you have that lab coat on? Because otherwise, I get the sense that maybe an apron or something of the like would do just as much to protect the clothing as a white lab coat which you know does in people's minds, has always been associated with, you know, specifically doctors. You know, I think that that's -- that's perhaps something that you could clarify for us.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Sure, I mean, so my understanding is registered nurses and doctors don't wear apron, so I mean, I don't think that's a common practice. I’ve seen in hospitals or doctors, maybe in a 49 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

kitchen, so I’m not sure that that would be the best suggestion.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Right, but your specific, you know, you said it was to protect the clothing underneath so I’m just curious, what procedures are being performed?

REP. LANOUE (45TH): Yeah, so in my organization, we don't wear white lab coats. I’m just pointing out the fact that the reason that white lab coats exist is for the simple fact of protecting the clothes underneath, so it's not -- it's not an indication.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): So not in your organization? Yeah, so not in your organization?

JEREMY BRADLEY: By the definitions of this ordinance.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): At others, yeah. Perhaps it others they're wearing them, and that would you know cause some people to be confused about the services with which they're receiving and from whom.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Well, I mean again, we've gone through this. I was trying to fill in the Representative on things that she's missed. We've gone through this year after year. We've brought up all the folks that wear white lab coats, we talked about all the reasons why it shouldn't be a criteria or some sort of discriminatory, you know, piece that should go against the pregnancy center if there was somebody in a white coat. Again, the ordinance specifically was even dealing with scrubs and that is very problematic because, I mean, that's what == that's what a lot of doctors and a lot of nurses and licensed medical professionals are wearing when they're interacting with the public, so.

50 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Right and that's usually because they're performing a procedure. Thank you, so much. I'm finished. Thank you for your testimony.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Representative DeGraw. Senator Hwang.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): Thank you, I guess, I would call you, Madam Chair right now. That being said, thank you, Mr. Bradley. I’ve been watching this and listening quite intently and obviously, on both sides of the argument, we are evoking very strong emotions. And I would encourage that as a part of the democratic process that we all respect each other's perspective in offering different viewpoints.

And I really appreciate your passion and if I may, your organization Caring Families, has it ever been accused of deceptive advertising practices?

JEREMY BRADLEY: So, when you say accused, accused by who?

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): No, no, no, a complaint filed against your organization.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yes, so no, we have never had a complaint filed against our organization. The only accusations of any deceptive advertising for Caring Families has come directly from NARAL.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): And they have not filed any formal --

JEREMY BRADLEY: They have not.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): Okay, and for many of your peer organizations, from your experience, to the best of your knowledge, have many of them had formal charges filed against them versus the kind of social media hits and misses that occur on both sides of the argument? 51 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

JEREMY BRADLEY: So to date, my understanding is there is no pregnancy center here in the state of Connecticut that has had any type of complaints filed against them for deceptive or misleading advertising. All of that, for lack of a better word rhetoric, has come from the NARAL about that.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): Thank you. And if that is indeed the fact, I do find it interesting that we are raising a Bill in such contentious and challenging times when there were really no formal complaints and basis, just innuendos, both sides back and forth. And I find it also interesting that our Attorney General would look to vie into this conversation as well. And so that's just my observation on that.

Number two, and I think most importantly as we go further into this conversation is your passion, your mission of your organization, is it deeply faith- based?

JEREMY BRADLEY: It's, I would say it's equally faith based as opposed to experience based. When I was, when I found myself 20 years old with my girlfriend, we were in a situation with and unexpected pregnancy and that was a really difficult time for us, you know, being third-year students at college, trying to navigate how we're going to finish and do all this. This was actually at the University of Connecticut at the time.

And I remember my girlfriend going and I went with her to the medical center, and the medical center there was only able to really provide us with information on having an abortion, and that's not something that we wanted to do. We wanted to find other ways for us to be parents, other ways for us to get connected with help and resources. And so that for me is really where my passion is born out of because having experienced that, having to know what it's like to be in that difficult situation. 52 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

And you know, we talk about choice, but it seemed like at that point, at 20 years old, my girlfriend had no choices before her to be able to stay in school, stay on campus, be a mom and complete her classes. And so that's really where my passion comes from. You know, and it's been 23 years later we're married and our oldest son is one of the greatest joys we have, one of three boys and I’m just thankful for that. I’m thankful for, you know, that experience that I had and, and wanting to be able to help other people in a way that I wasn't able to be helped in that place. And that's, you know, that's a big part of my passion here is with Caring Families, because I want to share those resources and support systems are there and they know that they're there, and know that they're not going to have to go through this alone.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): You tell a very compelling story, Mr. Bradley and congratulations on many years afterwards and the family that you have. Credit must be given to you. And you also recognize that at that difficult time in your life, challenging time, you had to make some important decisions for yourself and your loved ones. And I hope, as you advocate for your organization, you also respect that each individual at that moment in time is afforded the opportunity to make their own choice. Would that be a fair statement in your belief as well?

JEREMY BRADLEY: It is, and that's part of our core values of our organization, is that we respect the decision every single client makes. And so, if we're providing support for caring and adoption and that client chooses and makes the decision to have the abortion then, you know, there's nothing that we're doing to stop them. We're not trying to talk them out of it. We've already had the conversation, we've already shared all the things we can share. And we just let them know that we're still here for 53 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

them. They walk out that door, we let them know we're still here for them.

The things that we talked about, you know those, those pressures that you're feeling your life, you know, those things that are kind of coming down on you, whether it's work or family or housing, whatever those problems you're going through, we're still here for you. We're still committed to working through that and supporting you through on whatever you do next. So, yeah, we're very comfortable in that space and thank you for bringing that up.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): Well, I think this is the way I approached it. I hear such passionate viewpoints in the initial onset of this hearing, but I also heard your story and your decision-making process as emotionally challenging as it is, I think all parties can agree that for those people that go through that struggle even right now, that they are afforded a choice to make their own decision.

And I’m really glad to hear you say that if individuals choose to make a decision other ways, that it's their decision. And so I appreciate that and I’m glad that we can find similarities and agreement in that respect.

That being said, I think it's important to ask why I asked the second phase as to, is your organization and the approach beyond the personal experience, is it faith-based? Because I think one of the important questions I have is, as we embarked on addressing this Bill when it was first raised, I am extremely concerned that it seems to be targeting faith-based organizations, and it might cross the line as Representative Fiorello cited earlier, that there is some constitutional and Supreme Court basis of separation of church and state.

54 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

And so, I ask you of that from your organization, is it strongly faith-based or is it personally based upon your experience in your mission?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yeah it's both of those things so that's where my passion comes from. So for me, my passion comes from that. I am also a person of faith and so that faith compels me to show love and care and support for all of the people here in the world. So yeah, and part of that is we do have a belief that human life is valuable in all it's -- from the moment of conception to the point of that and it needs to be cared and protected through that.

And I recognize not everyone shares our views. Again we're not out there, telling other people that they need to bend to what we're saying. We're asking for us to be able to exist in this space without having things on our speech control.

And well, you know, it's interesting, one of the testimonies, one of the written testimonies that I was reading through it was from an organization, I think it was Secular Connecticut, and you know, they're really big on the separation of church and state, and they made the point that this Bill does not mentioned religion at all. However, the deduction of this I think is very important, is why do faith-based pregnancy centers not provide abortion? And the answer is that, it is because they are faith-based. And so therefore, regulating pregnancy centers, you are regulating faith-based organizations.

And again, the SB 835 is very clear that it's about abortion, because not only do they define it but they use that as the term on whether or not this law would be enforced against an organization is whether or not they would provide it or not.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): So I thank you very, very much. And Madam Chair and to the Administrative Clerk, I just wanted to make sure for a point of 55 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

clarity in this Zoom world, if we could change Mr. Bradley's name from Representative Lanoue so that people can identify and if they popped in right now, they would not get the clarity and presumed that this is Representative Lanoue. So if there's any way we can change his name on the screen for future conversations, I think that would help in clarity. So, thank you, Madam Chair and I appreciate that others want to ask questions. And thank you, Mr. Bradley.

REP. LANOUE (45TH): Senator, Can I just follow up on your question as well? This is now Representative Lanoue. Madam Chair, may I also address the question?

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Yes, sir. Yes, s1: , go ahead.

REP. LANOUE (45TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. I would just like to follow up. You know, we're talking about carving out this one industry, these pregnancy care centers. I think this works -- this works both ways. You know, this man has devoted his life work to helping women in need, helping women with unplanned pregnancies, and fathers as well. You know, he talked about his own story.

And the mobile van they have to do pregnancy testing and ultrasounds as part of the Caring Families Network and at the Women's Center in Eastern Connecticut, the organization that is really advocating and lobbying this legislation, this Bill, has put out advertising, put out on the internet, referring to this, quote, this van as stranger danger and a sketchy van. What evidence do they have to call this stranger danger? That term is very synonymous with warning kids, try to keep kids safe.

We need to make sure if anyone has deceptive practices, what recourse does he have to address that as well? And you know, these type of pregnancy 56 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

centers, whenever there is language like that being used against them? So I'd just like to add that to the record and thank you for the opportunity.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): Thank you Reps in the new you're just confused after I made the request to change to Mr. Bradley, and I appreciate your comments. And allow me to clarify my conversation and dynamics.

I appreciate Mr. Bradley's sharing of his personal experience, and I for myself believe in an individual's right to choose. And in this case, Mr. Bradley made the decision for himself and his then girlfriend, but I also respect for others that may choose an alternative decision. And that's important to note that as we begin this discussion. For those people that may be supportive of the separation of church and state and supportive of organizations like yourself, it is not a statement against choice. And I think Mr. Bradley's personal experience in articulating that they made a choice, and that choice is a freedom afforded to them as Americans and as residents of Connecticut.

That should be the theme of this conversation, it is the theme that guides me, that individuals have a choice and that choice is protected in this country. So thank you, Madam Chair and thank you, Mr. Bradley and Representative Lanoue.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Senator Hwang. Thank you Representative Lanoue. Next is Senator Somers.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to state something for the record here that I think the idea of somebody wearing a white lab coat and having a conversation about who wears what as a uniform is a really slippery slope. Because I had a biotech company for 25 years in Connecticut. We all wore white lab coats over scrubs. You go to some medical offices and the 57 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

receptionist wears scrubs and white lab coats. So, I don't think that the idea that somebody wearing a white coat is in any way deceptive or implies trying to present yourself as something that you're not. I think that that's something that if we're going to have that conversation it's going to be a really, really slippery slope. So I just wanted to make sure that we said that.

I’m actually, my husband is a clinician, he's a doctor, a heart doctor. He wears scrubs every day because white coats are not sanitary and he works with COVID. So I think that is a conversation that you know, is -- is we're not going to -- it's going to derail and I think that we need to stick to the facts of what this Bill is, which is supposedly deceptive advertising practices.

And, you know, so far today we've only gotten through one person to testify, but it appears that there's a lawsuit that was filed that was withdrawn. The Supreme Court has upheld a case talking about, you know something similar that has been upheld.

So the title of the Bill is deceptive advertising practices, so I really think that that's what we should focus on here, not what somebody is wearing. And unless we can have proof that that is what's happening, I think it's important, regardless of where you feel, I’m somebody who feels that you should make your own choice. You have Planned Parenthood that can provide services and, you know, potentially termination advice, if that's something that somebody wants. And you can also have the counterbalance that provides a different alternative.

And I think it's important that we're not targeting one or the other, actually, in this conversation. So I just wanted to say that about the white coat. I don't want this to get derailed on what people are wearing and I think it's important to keep the context of the Bill in line there. Thank you. 58 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

JEREMY BRADLEY: If I could just clarify, Senator Somers. As far as the lawsuit goes, the City of Hartford, it was not withdrawn. It was actually a settlement, so we settled with the City of Hartford and this is important because that really forced to the table some changes to that -- to that ordinance and also provided, you know, a statement from the City of Hartford to say that they weren't going to enforce this against us.

And we've also made it very clear with the City and they're aware of this as well as anybody else who asks me, if the City of Hartford were to ever try to enforce the ordinance against us, then that ordinance would, that lawsuit would start up again. Because, again, nothing has been settled constitutionally in the court, so this has not been not been ruled as -- as the appropriate, you know, and legal way of going about it. It's just that we've come to an agreement and had a settlement.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay, thank you. I would also would like to just remind everybody that in the state of Connecticut we have hospitals that perform terminations and hospitals that don't perform terminations. But the hospitals that are not performing terminations are not targeted because they don't. There's choices here in the state of Connecticut and I think it's important that we keep those choices. We may not agree with those choices, personally, but that we keep those choices available for people who are seeking the choice for that particular situation.

So thank you, I just want to make sure we keep the context of the Bill, and I think it would be helpful if you could send us all the information on the lawsuit that you have that we can share with a Committee, that would be --

JEREMY BRADLEY: I will do that today.

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REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Senator Somers. Representative Klarides-Ditria.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for your testimony today. I have a comment and a few questions for you, and I apologize if people have already asked this. I’m just confused as to why people are -- people feel there's a problem.

And my question to you is, over the last one, two, three years, how many complaints have been filed with the Department of Consumer Protection that you know of?

JEREMY BRADLEY: Yes, we did address this. There's been zero complaints filed with the state or any city agencies, so no complaints.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): In how long? How many years?

REP. LANOUE (45TH): As there's no complaints ever I guess, I would say that. We don't have a record of any complaints being filed against a pregnancy center.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): Okay, and then if I’m -- if I’m in my youth, a younger woman that would come into the pregnancy center, into your pregnancy center and I come in asking, I want an abortion and you realize that obviously you tell me that we don't do that, you know, and you explained to them that you're a faith-based center. And you say, you know, you have other options. Have you considered adoption? And you start talking to them. Then I -- then I should make that decision, this isn't the place I want to be. I definitely want an abortion. I appreciate you at giving me these other options and then you leave. And then you go and find the -- the abortion clinic that you were looking for.

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I don't understand. I know this is a very emotional time for women on both ends, but my concern and my question is, why is that a problem? It's my body, it's my decision. If I don't want to keep this pregnancy, then I walk out and leave. And I’m assuming you know that's what you do when someone -- you're talking to someone and they say listen, I really want an abortion. Like, I’m sorry, we don't do that. We can counsel you on this, but this place isn't you.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Sure. So if somebody were to call us or walk into our center or our mobile unit and tell us that they were looking for an abortion, we would be right up front with them and let them know that we would not be providing -- could not and would not be providing that. However, we would invite them if they wanted to talk about other options or talk about other things, they would consent to that.

And at that point, if they consented, then they would kind of invited in as that client relationship. So, you know, that would absolutely have to happen. And I, you know, I can tell you, we have a large majority of the people that we interact with are looking to have an abortion, but they still want to come in and talk through the other options, and we're available to do that. And so, and we're comfortable in that space, as I mentioned before.

So yeah, I would agree that it's important for the woman's choice and autonomy in this matter and we're totally respectful of that, and we're also very upfront about it. And again, there hasn't been any complaints filed here. You know, the complaints and stories that are being referenced through the NARAL report, it's very interesting is that there is second or third-hand information that's happening in those reports. It's not even, you know, coming sometimes from the client. And a lot of those testimonies are from volunteers and staff of NARAL through their secret shopper campaign, where they 61 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

decided to go into pregnancy centers as fake clinics -- as excuse me, calling us fake clinics as fake clients, and they come up with a fake backstory and interact with us, and all this stuff.

So yeah, so again, nothing's been documented on the state and federal level.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): Right, because I would be the first one --

JEREMY BRADLEY: Not federal, but local.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): Right. I would be the first one, I’m sure everybody on this Committee, if we had complaints and many complaints over years and years, would all be willing to jump on board with this. But my, like I said before, if there's not a problem, why are we creating -- trying to create a law for something?

JEREMY BRADLEY: I would also suggest that some of the clinic complaints that's happened, it seems like NARAL has been able to get their hands on a lot of testimony about, you know, alleged complaints of people who have felt like they've been misled or deceived. I’m not understanding why not one of those clients have ever been walked through a process of filing something formally with the town or the state.

And we also have a testimony, that's written testimony that we hear again about an emergency physician who was around 25 years ago, right, I think, and the same thing happened. And I’m just not understanding why we don't have these professional people concerned and going to walk through this with a client to make sure there's complaints.

And, I mean again, I’m concerned about any deception and specifically dealing around women's health. However, in this particular instance, you know, 62 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

they're looking for a solution to a problem that's just not there.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): Thank you for your testimony. Thank you, Madam Chair.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Representative. I believe that is all of our questions for Mr. Bradley and Representative Lanoue. Thank you so much for being here today.

JEREMY BRADLEY: Thank you. Have a great day.

REP. LANOUE (45TH): Thank you.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Next we'll hear from Christopher O'Brien.

CHRISTOPHER O'BRIEN: Good morning, Madam Chair, everyone. Can you hear me okay?

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Yes.

CHRISTOPHER O'BRIEN: Thank you very much. My name is Christopher O'Brien. I am here as the Executive Director of Connecticut Right To Life. How often do you walk into a place of business and a service or an item is not available to you in the marketplace? If you walk into a restaurant, a certain menu item isn't there. You go to your mechanic and he doesn't do body work. You go to a salon and there are certain services not available there. Or, your hardware store doesn't have bird seed. You go to the post office, they don't have the right package you want to mail your item. Even Amazon sometimes lets us down.

Crisis pregnancy centers are faith-based, nonprofit organizations. Another nonprofit organization that serves our communities very well is Alcoholics Anonymous. It's also a faith-based nonprofit helping people with alcohol addiction. I usually work as a paramedic. I’ve met many people that say Alcoholics 63 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Anonymous doesn't work for them either. Either they are not faithful, they're not religious themselves, it doesn't address their needs in that way as perhaps Planned Parenthood or another medical office might it for a pregnant mom.

You know this Bill has a lot of definitions, trying to define what a pregnancy center is. I can come up with another marketing slogan called comprehensive health center, and that's what seems to be this Bill is trying to define a difference between a comprehensive health center that which Planned Parenthood describes itself to be and self-describes in its marketing to differentiate itself from pregnancy centers.

But what's going on in this Bill is a competitor trying to define its competition not just in competitive advertising, but coming to the Legislature to do that instead. How would the Legislature react if a fast-food chain came to you and said, I need you to define the hamburger sold at my competitor? I don't think that's the role of government. That's not the appropriate place for advertising, for government to interfere with that type of advertising.

The point of this Bill, of course, is to address deceptive advertising and deceptive advertising and unfair trade practices, of course. And as the preceding speaker said, where's the evidence? I’m not aware of any lawsuits in Connecticut, specifically in Connecticut. I know people have brought up instances out of state, in other states, but we need to focus on geography which is unique to Connecticut that we have jurisdiction.

Attorney General Tong in the past has talked about CUTPA, commercial unfair trade practices laws don't apply to nonprofit organizations. And I can tell you one lawsuit where a pregnancy center did lose because of CUTPA, 1985. The case is the state case in Massachusetts called Ingram v. Problem Pregnancy 64 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Center of Worcester. Planned Parenthood had its offices on the sixth floor of a particular building, and Problem Pregnancy Center of Worcester moved into the same floor on the same corridor of the same building.

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Excuse me, you're approaching three minutes if you want to try to conclude your remarks.

CHRISTOPHER O'BRIEN: Okay I’ll just conclude on this point. So Problem Pregnancy Center had the initials PP in their logo, as Planned Parenthood, of course, does as well. At least three women entered the pregnancy center under the belief they were at Planned Parenthood. They filled out health screening forms then they realized they were at the wrong office. A lawsuit was filed by Planned Parenthood and the court decided that there was indeed copyright infringement of deceptive advertising which existed. They forced the pregnancy center to change their practices and the building's landlord kicked them out.

That's pretty much the summary of my testimony. I think that, you know, this is an unfair Bill that targets a particular viewpoint, a particular industry, and it could go after synthetic marijuana, which of course is an ingestion whereas pregnancy centers are only giving information and, as we said before, people can walk out and have other choices without real delay in their care. So, I’d be happy to take any questions.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you Mr. O'Brien. Any questions from the Committee? Seeing none, thank you so much for your time today.

CHRISTOPHER O'BRIEN: Thank you.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Next up we'll hear from Rachel Bertels.

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RACHAEL BERTELS: Can you hear me now.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Yes, we can.

RACHAEL BERTELS: Can you see me?

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): We cannot see you.

RACHAEL BERTELS: Sorry about that. This is all new for me. This actually freaks me out way more than just showing up in person. So, good morning Members of the Public Health Committee. It is, I, Rachel Bertels.

This Bill is a mess. It insinuates in Line 39 that these centers are not the licensed medical facilities that they are. Care Net of Southeastern Connecticut is staffed by actual medical professionals and their lab coats did not come from Party City, Checked or Degrees.

In Line 26, it holds language that targets and defines PRCs based on faith and the fruits of their religious beliefs. Jesus said "You shall know people by their fruits." This means that talk is cheap and our actions are the real conclusion of our beliefs. These centers derive a strong conviction not to have anything to do with abortion, because of their religious foundation and as Jeremy said, our experiences also factor into that.

Mine personally, I’ve had an abortion, I’ve given a child up for adoption and I’m a parent. In Line 26, these centers, as those not providing -- or defined as those not providing abortion and they are defined by what they do not offer, it's quite obvious to me that a faith-based center will not offer an abortion or refer for such. Proponents of this Bill want centers to either offer abortion or not help pregnant women.

It's like expecting a Muslim to eat pork or go home and if they do not violate their conscience, they 66 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

are barred from doing good work to help a demographic they care about. Rejecting the work of these centers as not valid help in pregnancy situations because of their religious conviction is religious discrimination.

The real question is, can a pro-life group help pregnant person without having anything to do with abortion? Ask the clients themselves, 98% approval exit survey rating and most of the people who darken the doors are word of mouth referrals.

Do not make laws that makes speech overlords for -- do not make laws that create speech overloads -- I can't talk, I’m so sorry. Do not make laws that make speech overlords who hold a diametrically opposed view to the people that they're supposed to be regulating. To pro-lifers, the phrase pregnant need help is fulfilled in the work of the centers. To abortion advocates, it is not. This shows that this is an ideological war, not deception at play.

People in the past have crossed their hearts that this Bill is really about deception and it only applies to bad actors, but the language of the Bill incriminates anyone who, due to conscience would reject anything to do with abortion. These centers have a constitutional right to follow their conscience while providing help to women who desire their services.

If an actual person filed an actual complaint, they would utilize CUTPA just like any other business. Making special laws for certain citizens is discrimination and must be rejected. The Attorney General claims that CUTPA may not apply to PRCs. He's failed to cite how CUTPA does not apply, but only speculates that their corporate structure, i.e. that they don't take money for services, might impede the use of CUTPA, but I see --

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Excuse me, you are approaching three minutes, if you could conclude your remarks. 67 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

RACHAEL BERTELS: Certainly, I have like a couple sentences. I say prove that CUTPA doesn't apply here. CUTPA does cover financial loss, which is one of the cries of people who champion this Bill. It even states that organizations can be held accountable for consumer problems that go beyond the scope of CUTPA, and the DCP can bring action against the company.

Regardless of this debate, if CUTPA is broken, describe how it's broken, fix it. Please, if you love liberty and hate tyranny, vote no to this Bill. Thank you.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you Ms. Bertels. Any questions from the Committee? Seeing none, thank you for your time today.

RACHAEL BERTELS: Thank you.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Next up we'll hear from Brian Hall.

BRIAN HALL: Hi, thank you, good morning. Health Committee, I know you are all concerned with the loss of life from COVID-19 and are doing everything you can to protect the people of Connecticut. Thank you all for your service. But that is not why we are here today.

Bill 835 is proposed to allow the State of Connecticut to bring suit against what is described as limited-service pregnancy centers. Obviously, there are two viewpoints on this issue. There's some centers like Planned Parenthood that provide abortions and some that do not like faith-based pregnancy resource centers, PRCs. But this Bill only -- is only applicable to PRCs because they do not perform or refer for abortions.

See Section 1, Paragraph 7 of the Bill. This law was written so that if you agree with one viewpoint, 68 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

you can say anything you want, but if you have an opposing viewpoint, you will be silenced. It would be like if someone started a Bill on deceptive advertising that only applied to limited fast food restaurants, like Chick-fil-A that did not provide or refer for hamburgers. That would obviously be wrong.

Everyone here has the right to associate with either viewpoint but it's unconstitutional, to use a Legislature to pass laws that discriminate against one viewpoint or discriminates based on religious beliefs. [inaudible] says some of the main reasons women struggle with planned pregnancies, unplanned pregnancies, are a baby would interfere with their education, would interfere with their career, or they can't afford.

One of Planned Parenthood solutions is abortion. There are many other solutions to this problem provided by PRCs, they just do not want to be part of abortion as a solution. The Christian pro-life view can be illustrated by a story. Imagine a mother has a toddler, and it is either keeping the mother from working, going to school or she has financial problems. Most of us would have compassion on the mother and toddler and try to point them to places that would offer services and support. Some would even offer services and support. Christian pro-life people view the mother and the unborn child in the same way as a mother and a daughter.

PRCs provide services and support for mothers and their unborn children. Again, I want to thank you for all that you've done to minimize the deaths from COVID, but COVID with over 450,000 deaths in the US is not the number one cause of death in America. On Planned Parenthood's website, they claim that abortion is very safe but abortion takes the lives of over 800,000 unborn children every year. PRCs believe these children and their parents can be redeemed, that they have value because they are made 69 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

in the image of God. Although we are all sinners, Jesus offers to redeem us. He paid for our sins on the cross. This redemption is available to anyone who believes.

I urge you to vote against this Bill because it's unconstitutional to use the Legislature to pass laws that discriminate against one viewpoint or discriminates based on religious beliefs. Remember the words of Harry Truman. "Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and create a country where everyone lives in fear." Thank you for allowing me to testify.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you for your testimony Mr. Hall. Any questions? All right, seeing none, thank you so much.

BRIAN HALL: Thank you.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Next up we'll hear from Rebecca Garoffolo.

REBECCA GAROFFOLO: Hello, Members of the Council, thank you so much for just the opportunity to be heard today. Greatly appreciate it. My name is Rebecca Garoffolo. I’m from Ansonia, Connecticut and I’m testifying today in strong opposition to Bill SB 835.

As a supporter of Hopeline Pregnancy Center, I’ve had the privilege of hearing incredible testimonies of women who have experienced help and positive support through the services provided by Hopeline. I’ve also had the privilege of getting to know some members of staff and have been encouraged not only by their professionalism, but also in seeing their hearts of compassion toward the people in their communities. Their passion, not only drives them to help and empower women who come in needing support, 70 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

but they themselves are people of integrity, thoroughly educated and highly qualified in the work that they do.

Now, I’ve reviewed Bill SB 835 and have several concerns about what's been proposed. First, Section 2 is suggesting that there have been deceptive forms of advertisement. However, you failed to mention what exactly is coming across deceptive. There's no clarification here. And if you cannot directly express what exactly you call deceptive, it causes me to wonder what validity there actually is for a Bill like this. And if no clarification can be made, I can only sort of determine that this Bill is the only deceptive thing intact.

Secondly, in all of my experience with Hopeline, they've always been extremely clear and upfront, both in written and verbal form, as to the services provided. Each client is fully informed, and none can receive services provided by Hopeline without first signing a form in recognition of what they do and do not provide. And I myself, as a supporter, have thoroughly reviewed the Hopeline website for the purposes of knowing what I’m supporting and I found no forms of deception, whether by statement or omission whatsoever.

Finally, Section 3 states that the Attorney General alone may determine the course of action against pregnancy resource centers, implying that the Attorney General alone is the distinguisher of right and wrong. And I find this to be incredibly inappropriate for one person to have so much power in determining the outcome of this blatantly vague accusation, based upon their own personal standards. This leaves an incredible amount of room for bias and personal agenda and should be unacceptable not only to the people of Connecticut, but in America as a whole.

And if we are a country in support of women's rights, then we should recognize the right that 71 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

women have to the free resources provided by pregnancy resource centers everywhere. Hopeline Pregnancy Center provides support for women of every color and language, whether they're insured or uninsured, at absolutely no cost, and this should be viewed as a vital resource to communities everywhere.

So, in light of these facts, I hope and I greatly encourage you to vote no to Bill SB 835 so that women in our communities can continue to be supported and empowered in this way. Thank you.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you for your testimony Ms. Garoffolo. Any questions from the Committee? Seeing none, thank you so much. Next up we'll hear from Julianna Bennett.

JULIANNA BENNETT: Thank you so much. Members of the Public Health Committee, my name is Juliana Bennett and I strongly urge you to oppose SB 835 as a supporter of Hope Pregnancy Center in Cheshire for a long time and now a part of the staff. In the past, I have felt that my testimony sometimes gets dismissed as irrelevant to the discussion. Often the good actor-bad actor point is raised, especially when talking about the good work that Hope does in the community.

As a quote-unquote good actor, we've been told that there's no need for us to be concerned about this Bill. But it's because of this very point that I am concerned, and here is why.

Two years ago I listened as Representative Linehan testified on this same topic. I appreciated her kind words as she testified that Hope is a wonderful little center that she has supported in the past. And she stated that Hope does not engage in deceptive practices, and she's correct in that statement. Yet, at the very same moment in their 2018 report, which is still on their website today, 72 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

NARAL lists Hope Pregnancy Center as a fake clinic. In other words, a bad actor.

So, whose words do you believe? Do you believe Representative Linehan or NARAL? Depending on who you believe, we are either a, quote, good actor that does not engage in deceptive advertising or practices, or we are, quote, bad actors operating a, quote, fake clinic.

And that is concerning to me. We all know that without objectivity, opinions change from person to person. If nothing else, take a look at other centers represented here today who can share the same story of upholding the highest standards and not engaging in deceptive practices, yet being targeted and labeled as, quote, fake clinics in the NARAL report, just like us. And because this Bill does not define what it means by deceptive, there is no objective standard by which pregnancy resource centers can be judged. It is left up entirely to the subjective opinion of individuals.

I cannot be confident that if we continue in our honest practices, being the quote good actor that we are, that we will be safe, that we have nothing to worry about. Because, as already evidenced in the NARAL report, by virtue of being a pregnancy resource center, we are already condemned as dishonest, fake and misleading. We are already condemned as deceptive. And this Bill, a Bill that zones in on only pregnancy resource centers, a Bill that uses subjective language and a Bill that is clearly framed to right an undefined subjective wrong, would allow us to be fined based not on fact, but on the subjective opinion and assumptions of others.

And for these reasons, I strongly urge you to oppose SB 835. Thank you very much.

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REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Ms. Bennett, for your testimony today. I see that Representative Zupkus followed by Representative Dauphinais.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, afternoon -- good morning and nice to see you. And thank you for coming, I know that you've been up before and were up last time this Bill was before us. And so I just want to say that I appreciate all of your hard work in what you do in your beliefs in the Hope Center, because it is a great organization. So I, along with my colleagues, hopefully, I do not consider you irrelevant and your organization fake. I think you do very great work for a lot of people that need those services. So, I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for doing what you do and thank you for coming up and testifying.

JULIANNA BENNETT: Thank you, Representative.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Representative Zupkus. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, thank you, and thank you for your testimony. I just, as someone who works at a center, can you just tell us, does the center have relationships and interactions with local communities and individuals in the -- in the surrounding community?

JULIANNA BENNETT: Yes, absolutely we do. We have great relationships with local food banks. We have relationships with local, the you know WIC, DCF. We've had, we work with the housing, state housing. Actually, our client services director Maggie who will be testifying later, would be a great person to ask about that, as she -- she's the one who does a lot of that here at the center. But yes, we do have a lot of great relationships with the community around us.

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REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): And thank you for that. And just one last question. Do you think that those agencies and individuals and the surrounding area would want to have a relationship with someone who participated in deceptive advertising?

JULIANNA BENNETT: I should hope not.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you and that's the end of my questions.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Representative Dauphinais and thank you, Ms. Bennett again for testifying today.

JULIANNA BENNETT: Thank you, Representative.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Next up, we have Alicia Di Leo. Alicia? All right, I’m going to go on.

ALICIA DI LEO: I’m here, I’m sorry, sorry technical difficulties. Good morning to you all. I’m speaking from the cloak room of an elementary school so fingers crossed we don't have a fire drill within the next three minutes.

My name is Alicia Di Leo. I’m a resident of Ellington, Connecticut. I submit testimony today urging you to pass SB 835, AN ACT CONCERNING DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING PRACTICES OF LIMITED SERVICES PREGNANCY CENTERS.

Since 2018, I’ve been privileged to volunteer as a patient escort at the Hartford GYN Center in downtown Hartford. On the mornings I serve as escort, I watch as countless women be subjected to the taunts, pleadings and proselytizing of protesters, most of whom show up faithfully every single week. It astonishes me still that women are subjected to such harassment when they are in need of time sensitive health care that may include medical or surgical abortion.

75 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Make no mistake, these protesters are the volunteer foot soldiers for the crisis pregnancy centers. They routinely try to shove CPC marketing materials into the hands of women who are simply trying to walk past them.

CPCs use deliberately deceptive language and signage in an attempt to get women or couples through their doors. Their goal is to counsel a woman away from abortion. These centers are often in medically underserved areas of our state and oftentimes they're deliberately situated within close proximity to a full-service medical clinic that provides abortions.

It's no accident that the CPC called Women's Hartford Center rented space in a building that literally shares a sidewalk with Hartford GYN Center. A CPC counseling against abortion is entirely within that organizations right and this Bill does not infringe upon that right. It merely states that advertising must be clear that the organization in question does not provide medical services, including abortion.

A payday lender cannot falsely claim that it is an FDIC insured bank, a bottle of dietary supplements is marked with clear language that the product has not been FDA approved. We're simply asking that CPCs across the state be held to that same level of marketing oversight.

There's no First Amendment protection for deceptive practices or advertising. The City of Hartford passed an ordinance in the winter of 2017 requiring CPCs to post signage stating there was no medical personnel on premises. This doesn't infringe on the clinic's speech, it simply clarifies that medical procedures, i.e. abortion, are not offered. All women in the State of Connecticut, not just those who can access clinics in Hartford, deserve to be protected from clinics falsely advertised.

76 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

What does false advertising look like? It looks like non-medical people wearing lab coats in photos, it looks like EKG heartbeat graphics in their brochures. It's the deliberate use of images that the average layperson would reasonably associate with medical procedures.

Time is of the essence in a crisis pregnancy. For many, a day off from work to access health care is an economic burden. For many, so is the cost of transportation to that clinic. Imagine then a woman --

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Sorry, you're approaching three minutes, so if you wouldn't mind concluding your remarks.

ALICIA DI LEO: Sure, okay. This Bill is not about abortion and no one is denying that some women willingly and knowingly walk into a CPC to use their services to their satisfaction. This Bill is about protecting Connecticut residents from fraudulent marketing materials so that they can access the medical procedures that they are legally entitled to receive. Thank you so much for your time and everything that you do for the state of Connecticut.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you Ms. DI Leo. Thank you for coming to us from a closet.

ALICIA DI LEO: You’re welcome.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): I have a question. In your experience as a volunteer, we've heard some in opposition to this proposal say that there are no public complaints to DCP, Department of Consumer Protection. In your experience, why might a woman not have made a complaint?

ALICIA DI LEO: I think that's a really great question. I would offer this question. Why do so few women who have been raped report that rape to authorities? I think a woman who is in a crisis 77 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

pregnancy is facing enough emotional turmoil that she -- that her first thought may not be to seek out what office in the bureaucracy of the State of Connecticut might best be the place where she can lodge a complaint. I think a woman in that position has more important things to attend to.

But I think citing as proof the fact that women aren't necessarily making claims is to simply ignore the fact that abortion is so stigmatized and the idea that a woman who may or may not be capable of really understanding how state bureaucracy works, that she may be willing to walk into an office building and sit across the desk from some bureaucrat that she's -- she doesn't know and to talk about her personal crisis right now, I think that's a huge ask. And I think the absence of that kind of evidence really ignores the shame and stigma that abortion patients are sometimes subjected to.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you very much.

ALICIA DI LEO: You're welcome, thank you for the question.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): You're welcome. Representative Betts, followed by Representative Dauphinais.

ALICIA DI LEO: I'm sorry, I can't hear you, sir.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Representative Betts, you're on mute.

REP. BETTS (78TH): Okay, can you hear me now?

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): We can hear you now.

ALICIA DI LEO: Yes I can, thank you.

REP. BETTS (78TH): Thank you again, Madam Chair, and also for your testimony. I have a couple of questions, one of which you were beginning to answer 78 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

before. I do understand the difficulty for an individual talking about personal issues like being pregnant and what to do next. What I don't understand is that there has not been, and correct me if I’m wrong, that there has not been one complaint ever pertaining to this. And if it is, why have we not seen or heard about this? Do you have any ideas on whether this is a practice or common trend in Connecticut?

ALICIA DI LEO: Well, I would certainly refer that question to the professionals. I know that the NARAL Director is scheduled to speak later on in the day. I’m a clinic volunteer. I don't necessarily -- I absolutely do not have access to any sort of confidential materials and I don't have statistics at the ready. I’m sorry.

REP. BETTS (78TH): No fair, fair.

ALICIA DI LEO: But I would -- I would refer back to my previous answer, which is women are facing extraordinary emotional burdens when they're in a crisis pregnancy, and the shame and stigma of seeking medical abortion is considerable, and a lot of women simply don't want to go forward and to talk to a bureaucrat about that.

Many, many people don't understand the mechanisms of how the state bureaucracy works. I consider myself a fairly informed person. You know, I necessarily would not immediately know what department of the state of consumer affairs, I would necessarily have to report to. And if I was experiencing a crisis pregnancy, I wouldn't necessarily want to invest my time that way. I would simply chalk up that I’ve had a bad experience, I would probably stifle my emotions and I would get on with the business of dealing with my crisis pregnancy.

REP. BETTS (78TH): Okay, thank you for that answer, and I certainly understand about not having this -- I wasn't trying to put you in a corner. 79 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

ALICIA DI LEO: Oh no, no, no, I understand, I just wanted to say that the experts are coming.

REP. BETTS (78TH): Okay, now along that line, I have another question which is, do you think it's appropriate or do you think it's the role of state government to pass laws either supporting or not supporting emotional and controversial issues like this? Because in my mind, there is no way of satisfying or meeting what everybody needs and sometimes -- not sometimes, many times when we go and adopt a law, put something in law, it has many unintended consequences.

And as you heard from other people, I think all of us feel like individuals should have the right to choose what they want, or what is best for their situation. Do you agree with that?

ALICIA DI LEO: I do. I don't necessarily think it's burdensome for an organization to state upfront what they offer and what they don't offer. I used as an example a payday lender. The State of Connecticut would never allow a payday lender to use marketing materials that would allow perhaps an under-informed consumer to believe that they were walking into an institution that was insured by the federal government. And I don't think it's a burden for a CPC to say here's a list of the things that we offer. We're proud to offer all of these. If you are seeking a medical or a surgical abortion, this is not the place for you. I don't necessarily see that as being burdensome, as a consumer.

REP. BETTS (78TH): Can you appreciate the optics of this proposal in which two groups have completely different viewpoints on how to help a woman in a situation when she gets pregnant? Does that not seem to you, or make logical sense that because they're in competition, they're looking to get an advantage over their competition?

80 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

ALICIA DI LEO: I’m sort of horrified at the concept that a woman experiencing a crisis pregnancy would be competed over. This is about -- this is about not taking advantage of a woman or a couple who's facing of a moment of crisis, a moment of crisis that is absolutely time sensitive. And I think upfront advertising and marketing about services offered and services not offered would eliminate a lot of that problem or those problems.

You know, women's health care is not a political football. It's not something that I can grab on one side and you can grab on the other one and we'll both pull as far as we can and we'll see who ends up with that woman's body. That's, your question sort of raised that image in my head of, you know, people competing over a woman's body.

REP. BETTS (78TH): So, you don't think -- you don't think there's any possibility of that happening?

ALICIA DI LEO: I’m sorry, can you repeat that?

REP. BETTS (78TH): Yeah, so you don't believe that there's any possibility of that happening?

ALICIA DI LEO: I don't think it -- I don't think it should happen, I don't think people should compete.

REP. BETTS (78TH): Yes, I agree.

ALICIA DI LEO: Yes, and I think clear and upfront advertising and marketing of what is offered and what is not offered eliminates confusion.

REP. BETTS (78TH): Okay. Well, thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair and I look forward to the answer to the question that is foremost in my mind, which is, is this occurring in Connecticut and documentation showing where it is going on, so that we can take steps to address it. So thank you very much.

81 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Representative Betts. Next we have Representative Dauphinais, followed by Representative Zupkus.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, good morning and thank you for your testimony. You mentioned that you saw women subjected to taunts and proselytizing by protesters.

ALICIA DI LEO: Yes.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): To be clear, these protesters were not associated with the pregnancy center, correct?

ALICIA DI LEO: Escorts are engaged in a practice of non-engagement, so we don't typically engage these people in conversation. Mostly, because when we do, we ourselves are subject to verbal abuse. What I have seen repeatedly, every time I’m there, is that I see protesters trying to very forcefully sometimes hand CPC material to women. So I’ve, with my own eyes, I have seen some of the flyers, and it's -- the flyers have the names and the phone numbers of CPC centers. So their intent is to steer the women toward the CPC center.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): But you're not sure, to be clear, you're not sure if there's associated with the pregnancy center or not.

ALICIA DI LEO: Well, I think someone who is handling material, marketing material from a CPC, is certainly aligned with that CPC. I doubt very highly they're paid staffers. I think a lot of people on the ground, on both sides of this issue are there as volunteers, because they're passionate about the issue. So my -- I didn't mean to imply that these are CPC employees. I believe that they are allies.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. You said that pregnancy -- pregnancy centers use deliberately 82 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

deceptive language. Do you mean all the pregnancy centers.

ALICIA DI LEO: I haven't taken a comprehensive look at all, I believe there are 25 CPCs in the state. I have seen deceptive advertising. I, as a consumer, I know, when I drive past a bus stop and I’ve seen signs that are advertising for CPCs, and I ask myself if I wasn't aware of this issue, and obviously I am, that's why I’m testifying, but if I were an under-informed consumer just driving past that bus stop, you know, would I in the five seconds that I was looking at that material think that I was looking at an advertisement for a full medical facility? I would think yes.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, what is the advertisement that you're seeing that you believe is deceptive specifically?

ALICIA DI LEO: I’ve seen advertised, I’ve seen photo layouts of people in white coats, I’ve seen photo layouts of things that look like a full scale medical facility. And again, I would just remind you that I’m a volunteer who, for the most part, stands outside the street. I don't have access to all of the things that NARAL or Planned Parenthood employees who will be testifying later, I think they can speak far more substantively about that.

But as a consumer, yes, I have. I have definitely seen advertising that makes me think that someone who is not very well informed of the issues would think that they are about to walk into a full-scale medical facility.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, with regards of the pictures of ultrasound machines, if a pregnancy center has medically licensed staff and provides ultrasounds, wouldn't that not be false advertising? Being a volunteer at Hartford GYN, I’m having trouble discerning what is false advertising as opposed to you just not liking the competitive 83 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

agency. I mean if they are offering certain procedures like ultrasounds and the like, wouldn't wearing a lab coat being appropriate?

ALICIA DI LEO: I think it's the extent of the advertising. I think a woman in a crisis pregnancy, with time of the essence, should know, within a few moments of research, whether it's looking up an ad in the Yellow Pages if anybody uses the yellow pages anymore, or on a website, I think within a moment's glance she should be able to know is this an organization which offers other alternatives, other than abortion? Or is this a place where I where I can receive a medical or surgical abortion, if that is my choice.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So do you think that an agency like Planned Parenthood should be doing the same? And in their pictures showing other alternatives of places they could go for spiritual and biblical counseling with regard to a pregnancy?

ALICIA DI LEO: I think Planned Parenthood is very upfront in their marketing. I think a woman who accesses the services of Planned Parenthood knows exactly what she can and she can't get there. I don't I don't think anyone enters a Planned Parenthood clinic thinking that it's anything other than Planned Parenthood. And again -- and again I want to be very clear, I am not a Planned Parenthood employee, and I know that there are men and women who will be, who are authorized to speak about exactly what Planned Parenthood does. I want to be very clear about that.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): But based on advertisements you've seen on buses and the like referred to the same as the pregnancy centers? That they can see an advertisement and know that they don't offer those kinds of services? You're making the assumption that people who enter into Planned Parenthood would know that, and I guess I’m just trying to understand 84 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

in what advertisement does it exemplify what you're talking about?

ALICIA DI LEO: I think if you do a broad overview of CPC advertising materials, I think you will find that the average consumer, someone who may not actively follow the politics of this debate, I think can easily be misled into thinking that they're entering a medical facility where surgical or medical abortion can be attained when it cannot.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): And that's based on advertisements you've seen of a room that has an ultrasound machine and an individual wearing a lab coat?

ALICIA DI LEO: Yes, I mean, you know, just as a consumer, sort of living my life, wandering around the state of Connecticut, yes I’ve seen advertising that I’ve considered would be misleading, even though I -- I know what kind of advertising I’m looking at because I’m fairly involved in this, in this issue.

But I’ve often thought someone who's not involved in this, who does not follow the year to year political tussle of women's rights, I’ve often wondered that that woman or man would, would be confused by the advertising that they're seeing.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you for that. You did give some examples of what you call false advertising. First you said, "Pregnant? We can help." was false advertising. My understanding is these centers help pregnant clients with diapers, cribs, car seats, clothing and others, other things, parenting education, community resources. Do you not consider that helpful for a person who is pregnant and in what you would call medically underserved areas?

ALICIA DI LEO: I think those are examples of wonderful help, and I’m glad that those clinics 85 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

offer that, those sort of services. I simply believe, and I think you and I have a fundamental disagreement on this belief, and I think we could go -- I think this could continue for hours on end. But I believe that those places should be upfront about the services that they don't offer. I don't think it's in their best interest to have women walk through their doors when those women are seeking an abortion.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): I don't know if you heard Mr. Bradley’s testimony, but he was very clear that the center's do in fact inform individuals of what they do offer, so I’m not sure where you're getting the information that they wouldn't do that.

ALICIA DI LEO: I didn't hear his testimony because I’m actually in my workplace right now, so I was just simply waiting until I knew it was my time to appear on camera so I have missed some of the testimony today, but I take it at your word that he said what he said.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, I think from that answer, so you were just making the assumption that they don't inform them of what they provide, the services they provide.

ALICIA DI LEO: I can't speak to what a CPC employee says when a woman walks through the door. I don't think that's what's being discussed right now. I think what we're discussing is the advertising that leads a woman to get through their doors in the very first place. So, I can't speak to what employees say to a woman once she's in their waiting room.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): What exactly did the bus advertisement say? I’m just curious because I’m still trying to figure out what advertisement is showing any deception.

ALICIA DI LEO: I didn't write down the specific text and I’ve seen advertising on the side of 84 and 86 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

91, I’ve seen them in bus stops, I’ve seen them on buses. I didn't take down exactly what it was, but I remember thinking that this is some -- this is something that would catch the attention of someone in a crisis pregnancy, even if that person was thinking the course that they would like to pursue is abortion.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): I think that, so I guess it's just your assumption and you can't articulate the exact advertisement, but I do appreciate the answer and that's my last question. Thank you.

ALICIA DI LEO: Thank you.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Representative Dauphinais. Representative Zupkus, followed by Senator Anwar.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for coming before us, Alicia. I do believe Representative Dauphinais asked my question because it was regarding the protest, and I’m curious as to who these people are. Because people have the right to protest, whether we agree with what they're doing or not. However, peacefully protest. So if you're saying people are being threatened and all of these kinds of things, then that to me calls for law enforcement.

But people, whether we like it or not, I mean we've seen it all around, people have the right to protest. So, but I am curious as to who are these people? Because I can go protest, something that I’m passionate about, get brochures from the place, whether they know I have them or not or create my own. So I think that is something that we really need to be aware of, who are these people?

I can't, I mean, as the Hope Center I have Carolyn in my district, Carolyn's Place, and I can tell you they don't have time to go do that. So again, who are these people and how are they doing it? Whether 87 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

they're really, you know, what is harassment? Harassment to one person is something else, but as long as they're peacefully, whether we again, like it or not, they have the right to do that. But Representative Dauphinais has gone through that question, so thank you.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Representative Zupkus. Senator Anwar.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Alicia, for your testimony and also for your volunteer work, and also your patience with us Legislators as we try to listen to what we want to listen at times, even when the testimony is pretty clear on what it states.

So I wanted to just listen to what I want to listen, and with that I’m going to ask you a question. Why do you feel that you need to volunteer for the work that you do?

ALICIA DI LEO: Well, I volunteer because I have three daughters and I am absolutely intent on the fact that they, as young women, will live their lives with the same reproductive freedoms that I have lived my life. I volunteer because the idea that a woman can be subject to harassment and shame for accessing a medical procedure that is legally available to her, this infuriates me beyond what I could ever adequately express.

A woman's body is her own, and it is not a political football and I don't believe reproductive rights are -- should be in the offing every four years. And I know that this hearing is not about abortion but you asked me why I do this, and that is why I do. The idea that, under a Republican President, a woman has fewer rights to control her body than she may or may not have under a Democratic President is just -- it shouldn't stand and I want to do everything I can to protect the rights and the dignity of women.

88 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you so much, and I think your clarity about where you stand and the clarity about your volunteering, volunteerism is very important. Can I ask you, in your interactions, the women who are going for the medical procedure, what kind of an emotional status they are in? If you were to, and I’m not asking you to generalize, but my understanding is that this is not a time that they would feel comfortable with people yelling and screaming across the street at them. And how does it impact, what have you experienced in just being an observer in that environment?

ALICIA DI LEO: I’ve, first of all, as an escort, I think we all try to be as invisible as we can. I don't approach a woman who's trying to enter our clinic as a protector or a savior or a potential confidante. I’m simply trying to get those women into the building with as little trauma as possible.

I think every woman experiences an abortion in her own way. I think some women walk in with a very steadfast emotionally strong demeanor, and some are clearly in emotional distress. And it's not my job to judge their state of being or why they're there. I’m simply there to sort of be a buffer between a group of people who feel that they have the right to shame or harass someone as they're walking through.

And when I say shame and harass, you know, I just want to say yes, you know, these people tend to be peaceful, if you want to call being peaceful, you know, yelling that someone is going to go to hell for what they're about to do, or yelling that, you know they're about to commit murder. So when someone says, you know, these people have a right to protest peacefully, you know, yes. Are they physically assaulting these women? No, typically. I’ve never witnessed that. Are they emotionally assaulting them? Yeah, absolutely.

But the women who walk into the clinic are as unique and as varied as any other, and they're all there 89 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

under their own circumstances and they all bring their own -- their own emotional baggage or their emotional strength.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you for that, and I think that we have situations where it has been recognized that even psychological trauma is considered as violence against women, especially if it's organized and done in a manner. And at least from what I have heard from situations, even though there is not physical violence against them, but this clearly psychological violence in that situation, in a vulnerable situation.

Now, did I hear you correctly when you said that these individuals who, as some of my colleagues say are peacefully protesting against the woman or harassing them, do they have materials from CPCs? Did I hear you say something to that effect?

ALICIA DI LEO: I’ve, on multiple occasions, I have seen protesters handing materials to women and many times they are materials from CPCs.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Yeah, okay. And of course that does not mean that they are employed by them, but that means they are ideologically or otherwise impressed or impacted or in sync with them, and that's why they are trying to market some of the materials for them. So I can understand. This is very helpful.

Another argument some other people are making is that when a woman who is pregnant and she is seeking abortion, and she actually goes to another facility which has got an ultrasound machine, which is the access to quote-unquote medical facility, because there's an ultrasound there now. And then, and she feels that she has been misled, at that time, what is the first thing on her mind should be? Should it be to go to the real facility or should be to go through the bureaucratic, challenging process in the state to complain about being misled? 90 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

ALICIA DI LEO: Like, I think your question reinforces my statement earlier. That I think a woman in that position, if she realizes that she is being delayed, I would assume that her first reaction is to get to a clinic where she can receive an abortion if that's what she needs to do. You know, I can only put myself in the shoes of someone in that position. If I was watching the clock and feeling like time is of the essence, no, I am not going to go to the State of Connecticut website and try to figure out which one of the dozens of departments might be the appropriate place for me to lodge a complaint.

And I also wouldn't relish the idea of making an appointment and sitting across the desk from what may be, you know, someone who is not sympathetic to my plight. You know, the very last thing I would want to do is to be looking at someone who is judging me and delaying me.

So no, I don't think launching a complaint cracks the top 10 things on a woman's to-do list if she has been delayed.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): That is very helpful. I think that's how I would understand it as well, but I think you clarified much better. The other part is , the fact that if somebody is going to complain to the Department of Consumer Protection and that information is through the Freedom of Information Act available and accessible to anyone, would that make somebody be very concerned to make a complaint about something?

ALICIA DI LEO: You bring up a very good point and that speaks to the level of shame that some people in our society still seek to pour on a woman who is seeking an abortion. And yes, if, you know, if she considers her confidentiality in this matter to be of the utmost importance -- and who wouldn't -- then no, I can absolutely see her not wanting to put pen 91 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

to paper and to sign her name on what could very well become public document.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): This is very helpful as well. And in a situation like this, I think some of the women may choose to reach out to their Legislators who are willing to have a conversation on this topic with them to be able to say yes, this is an issue. And if the Legislators take an action to try address from a legislative point of view, do you think that's a reasonable thing for a Legislator to do?

ALICIA DI LEO: I do think it's a reasonable thing for a Legislator to do, but that again depends on a woman's willingness to go public and to share circumstances that are inherently private. And she's entirely justified if she chooses not to. Although lack of evidence, obviously, makes this a difficult case to make, and I understand that.

But, you know, you would never, like I said before, you know, why do so many women not report rape? And it's because our society has surrounded that issue with shame and blame.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): I cannot thank you more for your testimony. I think some of your words and wisdom is very clear and when you talk about the fact that some people have been using arguments to try and control women's bodies, and there's so much effort around that and control around that. So I think your words, and also how there is a duality that exists around some of these aspects. So again, thank you for your volunteer work, thank you for your testimony and thank you for clearly answering my questions. Thank you, Madam Chair.

ALICIA DI LEO: Thank you, Senator Anwar, it was a pleasure to speak to you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): You are going to have to say Mr. Chair now, sorry about that. Representative Berger-Girvalo, followed by Representative 92 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Dauphinais and Representative Zupkus, each for the second time.

REP. BERGER-GIRVALO (111TH): I apologize --

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): I guess we'll give her a moment.

REP. BERGER-GIRVALO (111TH): It won't be -- there we go. We'll just set that down. I actually would like to speak to what Senator Anwar and Ms. Di Leo has been speaking about regarding whether or not it is a comfortable position to report.

It is not, and I will tell you that from very personal experience, from my own experience at 19 years old when I found myself with an unwanted pregnancy. And this is not something that I have spoken about prior to this in any public forum, but I think it is very important not to reference this anecdotally but from an actual person who has been through this, from their perspective.

The comfort of reporting that and knowing -- the discomfort rather of reporting that and knowing that your information could have gotten anywhere at any time is [inaudible] and I think it's important to say this is absolutely a deterrent for women to report this.

ALICIA DI LEO: Yes, I believe it is. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Will that be it, Representative? Okay, thank you. Representative Dauphinais for the second time, followed by Representative Zupkus for the second time.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair and Alicia, thank you for hanging out there with us. I know you missed -- I think you said you missed Mr. Bradley's testimony earlier, but he did say that DCP has an anonymous online complaint system where people can go and put in a complaint, and he said 93 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

that nobody has complained. So that would be an anonymous place where somebody could go and be unidentified. I didn't know if you were aware of that.

ALICIA DI LEO: No I’m -- excuse me.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): No, go ahead.

ALICIA DI LEO: No I’m not, but that sort of reinforces a point I was trying to make. Is that I consider myself fairly informed in this issue. I’m not an employee of either NARAL or Planned Parenthood but I do follow this topic fairly well and I had no idea that there is an anonymous phone line at the Department of Consumer Affairs. So, if I didn't know that, I think, you know, a young woman who's in the midst of a crisis who may not follow state politics at all certainly would not be aware of that.

So I think the fact that professionals who follow this issue know the exact route that a woman needs to take to efficiently lodge a complaint, that's very insider baseball and I don't think the average consumer is aware of that at all, and I don't think that they should be blamed for that. I think sometimes people assume that knowledge they have is shared by the masses and I don't think that's the case at all.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you for that answer. Would you be supportive of another law or avenue that would help clarify a pathway to file a complaint to any pregnancy-related services?

ALICIA DI LEO: I think any information that empowers a woman to make a complaint against any mistreatment that she has been subjected to would be a good thing. I’m not a lawyer and I’m not even a professional legislator, so the nuts and bolts of that are sort of above my pay grade right now.

94 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay, just two more, two more quick questions. Have you ever been into a pregnancy center?

ALICIA DI LEO: No, I have not.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay, and do know if the protesters were there before the pregnancy center moved in?

ALICIA DI LEO: That I can't speak to because that predates my time.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay, thank you.

ALICIA DI LEO: I’m assuming that later on in the testimony queue someone else will be able to answer that.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you very much, I appreciate it. I am done.

ALICIA DI LEO: You're welcome.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. Representative Zupkus for the second time.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair for indulging me one more time. And I just wanted to be very clear on what I had said earlier regarding protest. I was curious about who was protesting and it is their right. However, I understand people that come into your center or faith-based centers and the emotional stress that they are probably under and trying to make decisions that are going to affect them for the rest of their life. I’m not saying that that's easy whatsoever. All I’m saying is about the protesting point, so I just want to be very clear about that. So, thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative, for that clarification. Are there any other Legislators? Representative Foster. 95 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): I am sorry for the last-minute question. I just, I’m wondering, since this is an issue that you are familiar with from the outside and not being a professional working for either organization, but for volunteering, Alicia, if you would mind telling me, if you were interested in looking into this procedure let's just say, for filing an anonymous complaint with DCP, because that seems to be suggested as viable pathway. What would be the way you started as a layperson, no experience? Perhaps a little more experience than the average person or consumer, the average woman would have. How would you look into filing an anonymous complaint if that's something you would feel more comfortable doing than a complaint with your name attributed to it?

ALICIA DI LEO: Are you asking me how I would go about doing it?

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Yeah, just if you wouldn't mind telling me, just like as a woman, you know let's just say you were in this position, you were trying to figure it out. Where would you start?

ALICIA DI LEO: I have absolutely no idea.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Okay. Maybe Google, right?

ALICIA DI LEO: I would probably start. I would probably start randomly entering praises into the Google bar.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Yeah, I did the same thing and I even had the DCP, because I thought maybe that would be something that would be helpful and then I tried control F-ing on the page to find the word anonymous on the complaint page, and I also didn't find anything. So I’m just curious, like you know, like you're -- I think this is a good point. Like, you know, you're saying that someone might -- there might be too many things getting in someone's way. 96 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

They might decide for anonymity, but if that didn't work, do you think that a complaint would end up filed?

ALICIA DI LEO: I think asking a woman to file a complaint is a fairly large ask. And, you know, I think Legislators sometimes start throwing around acronyms and initials and thinking that the average layperson knows what they're talking about.

Half an hour ago if you had said to me what's the easiest way to contact the DCP? I would say I don't know what the DCP is. So I think assuming that people have a level of inside knowledge is really -- is really dangerous in a situation like this. And I’m not trying to imply that the average citizen is stupid or tragically uninformed. I just think most people live their lives without understanding the pathways and the Byzantine circuits of state government.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): I also think that, like, you never know what help you'll need until the moment you need it. You can't plan multiple steps ahead and we should all show compassion and empathy for folks in everything that we do every day, every step of the way, but certainly making it easy for someone in a moment of crisis and tragedy and stress, to make it easy for them to access things.

I appreciate you sort of going through that thought experiment with me, because I think a Google bar is where most people start, but even if you knew, now we know you could go to DCP, that's come out during this hearing. We know there's an anonymous option, we're hearing that in this hearing, though of course not from DCP themselves, to document it. You know, I’m using you know minorly sophisticated searches and looking for the word complaint and anonymous on the DCP website. And I even chatted with Charlie and haven't been able to -- on the website -- and haven't been able to find that option.

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So yeah, I appreciate you sort of going through that thought experiment with me, because I think that it's important for us to try and understand, you know, what's possible and feasible and, you know, I think moments of stress. My child was born prematurely. If anyone asked me to do anything in that moment where my stress and emotions and hormones and tension were high, it would have been really challenging for me.

And so I just try, I appreciate you being here and allowing us to have these conversations, because I think these perspectives are important. So, thank you for being here.

ALICIA DI LEO: Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you Representative, are there any further questions for the speaker. Representative Klarides-Ditria.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question, I went on to the DCP website and I put in anonymous, and it comes up anonymous complaints and it gives a two-sentence explanation of how to apply, how to make an anonymous complaint. So to Representative Foster, I don't know where she was looking. I just put in the Google search bar anonymous complaints, State of Connecticut, Department of Consumer Protection and it came up maybe halfway down the page. So I just wanted to put that out there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you. Are there any further questions by Legislators for this speaker? If not, thank you for your testimony today and for your patience with all the questions. We will now move on to No. 10 on our list, that's David Reynolds followed by Deanna Wallace. Mr. Reynolds.

DAVID REYNOLDS: Yes. Thank you for having me here today Chairs and Members of the Committee. My name is David Reynolds and one of the things I do in my 98 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

life is to be chairman of the board of Two Hearts Pregnancy Care Center in Torrington, Connecticut. The center was opened in 2012 and since that time, we've had a great reception from the community. We've had a large number of clients come into our center. We work closely, as I said, with the community, with many social agencies, state agencies, etc.

A good example is a woman in need had a baby at the local hospital around Christmas time, had nothing, and the hospital called us for support for that woman. Not just material support, for emotional support and someone who could stay with her and help her through that pregnancy. So we're very proud of our record in Torrington.

We do very little advertising. All we do is advertise on our website. Most of our clients, and we averaged several hundred a year, are through all local referrals from agencies or just word of mouth among the community, that if you're in need, there's somebody there that can help you.

We feel that we're part of that choice for women. We also have a Planned Parenthood office in Torrington. We are nowhere near the Planned Parenthood office, so women clearly have a choice in Torrington or Northwest Corner of the area, that's basically our service area is the Northwest Corner. So we're very proud of our record.

I had a prepared statement, but I'd like to vary from that if I could just address a few things here. Is that one, it's been mentioned about this Bill possibly having viewpoint discrimination. I feel strongly that it does, because it narrows out on the word abortion just those centers that do not offer abortion services. So if Two Hearts decided, you know, we're going to have deceptive advertising but we're also going to offer abortion, this Bill wouldn't apply to us and we can go on and have our deceptive advertising. So, it's definitely an 99 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

abortion Bill. Some people say it's not, but it is an abortion Bill.

I would also like to address the fact that this is just not a Connecticut issue, as many probably are aware. NARAL has been pushing this issue for probably the last ten years, if not quite ten years. In 2015 they came out with a report that said all -- all -- pregnancy care centers in the state of Connecticut were fake clinics. In their 2018 report they modified that because some Legislators actually went out and saw the clinics and said this clinic isn't fake, so they modified the language in their 2018 report. Well, in their viewpoint, we're all fake clinics.

I would also like to say that about the issue of evidence, what's going on. This Bill, we've heard comments about not being, you know a woman being distressed and not going to the website for DCP. Well, this Bill says they have to go to the attorney General's office. So, I mean, what's more cumbersome is somebody got on the street, going to now walk to the Attorney General's office. You know what, this Bill actually does is it allows groups like NARAL --

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Excuse me, you're approaching the three-minute mark, if you would like to try to conclude your remarks, thank you.

DAVID REYNOLDS: Thank you. And they are allowed to go to the Attorney General and do that. I would like to ask a few questions. There are court rulings in Baltimore, Maryland United States Supreme Court, and in Montgomery County, Maryland over the last several years. And those court rulings clearly state that there was no evidence for these jurisdictions to enact the laws that they did to control pregnancy care centers and they threw those laws out. Most legal cases that resolve around Bills to control pregnancy care centers across the United States have not upheld the pregnancy care 100 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

centers. I believe we'll have more people testify on legal aspects later today.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you Mr. Reynolds. Representative Cook.

REP. COOK (65TH): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, good cramming. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to first thank David for all of the great work that he does for the Northwest corner. And then ask a question. I think it's valuable what he said regarding the fact that in Torrington specifically we do have two different centers and they did not pop up right next to the other one. They are quite frankly, across town. And they do have a great reputation. So, David, I would like to ask you this out of all of the years that you all have been involved, have you all had any complaints at all of deceptive practicing or deceptive advertising?

DAVID REYNOLDS: No, we have not. We have not, like I said, we do very little advertising. It's through-- it's just on our website and other-- the most of the people come from-- Torrington is not as a big city sometimes as you think, and it comes from referrals or word of mouth through the community. And from like I said, the social centers, we also had a program in high school years ago to help pregnant high school girls out, but fortunately to stay cut the money for that program.

REP. COOK (65TH): And then my next question is if somebody came into your facility and they were, you know, they really wanted an alternative option of which you might not ethically or morally believe in, what would be the standard procedure for your facilities in that regard? If you could explain that that would be helpful as well.

DAVID REYNOLDS: Well, the procedure starts with the concept we meet the women where they are, in their lives. So, we-- obviously I don't do the 101 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

counseling, our volunteers do that. We meet them where they are, they all come in with different stories and different needs. We-- if many of them come in knowing they want to keep their child. So, if a lot come in wanting to keep their child, we help them do that by giving them support material support. What's not mentioned a lot in his testimony is we give a lot of emotional support. Somebody as women just need somebody to listen to them. They may have been abused or have some really bad stories to tell.

If they decide they want to do an abortion, they're very-- we make it very clear we don't provide that service. And they're welcomed we might talk to them about, you know, what they might encounter doing an abortion, but we don't provide the service. So, we're very upfront. We haven't advertised on our website. We don't do abortions. And our job is again to meet the women where they are not to deceive them, not to, you know, save their baby from abortion. It's to help them out. And that's how we function. So, we-- they will leave and we've had clients, many clients leave and go get an abortion. We have clients that come in and say, you know, I've had two abortions already. I really don't want to do it again. I want to have this baby and we help them out. There's no condemnation on any of-- Their lives are too complicated for us to sit there and try to condemn or put people down about their choices.

REP. COOK (65TH): Thank you. I appreciate that clarification. And again, thank you for all the great work that you all do in our corner. Great to see you be safe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, good morning. And thank you for your testimony. I just wanted to know, you said that you work with the community and different agencies and you have many referrals that 102 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

come your way. Do you think that if they believed you were doing deceptive advertising, that they would send you clients?

DAVID REYNOLDS: Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. And they all know that, you know, we're basically what you would call, I guess, in this prochoice type of world, we're a pro-life organization. They know we're, we're basically a Catholic organization. We were started by the Catholic churches in the area. And I'm a deacon in Catholic church. So, these groups would not, if they thought we were going to in any way harm or try to cause stress to the woman that come to us they would definitely not do that. I mean, in fact, we, you know, we work with women's shelters to send people, women to the shelters, with their babies, if they already had them or it has stories of abuse. So, we worked very closely with all different groups.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you. I appreciate that and that's the end of my question.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Are there any other questions? If not, thank you for your testimony. We now move On to Deanna Wallace.

DEANNA WALLACE: Hey, can everyone hear me? You can hear me? Okay, great. Hi, my name is Deanna Wallace. I'm an attorney and I'm here in opposition to SB 835. In my practice as an attorney, I've had the honor of helping to represent pregnancy centers like the ones in Connecticut and for life medical professionals and litigation regarding their free speech and state courts at the fourth circuit court of appeals and at the United States Supreme Court. These pregnancy centers across America provide vital care to mothers and their children. And these services have been estimated to save our communities upwards of $100 million a year.

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And trying to silence these pro-life pregnancy centers has actually cost millions of dollars for the jurisdictions that have tried to do so, for instance, NIFLA v. Becerra, the California case, when the Supreme Court threw out their attempts to regulate the speech of her life pregnancy centers, the state of California had to pay over $2 million in legal fees. Similarly, the city of Baltimore had to pay over $1 million in legal fees after their entire pregnancy center ordinance was overturned by the fourth circuit giving the Supreme Court's clear rulings on free speech rights of pregnancy centers. It's not only unconstitutional to do this, but it would be fiscally irresponsible for Connecticut to do so.

There are two main reasons why this Bill would be unconstitutional. And the first is that selectively targets a single viewpoint, which is viewpoint-based discrimination, which the Supreme Court has said is unconstitutional by limiting this Bill only to centers that refuse to provide or refer for abortions, you're singling out a particular viewpoint on abortion. And this was actually mentioned in NIFLA. And then the second reason is it's impermissibly vague and overbroad. We've talked a lot about what deception is and we still don't know because every single person who's come up here has had a different opinion about what exactly is misleading and the context of what pro-life pregnancy centers are saying. And if a pregnancy center can't tell whether or not saying pregnant need help is going to cost them legal fees and fines, then you're, impermissibly chilling their right to free speech.

They don't know if even having their licensed medical staff in a white lab coat might open them up to being attacked by the government. And it's not the government's place to decide and especially in the context of a highly controversial, highly debatable subject like abortion, what they think is misleading because reasonable people can and do 104 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

disagree on that. It's a very, very highly charged issue that a lot of us are passionate about for different reasons. And for the government to step in and say, you can't say that even though you fully believe that you're being accurate, because I don't think you're being accurate, or I think that you're being as honest as I want you to be, or you're not saying exactly what I want you to say, is a huge problem. As a general matter, the court has said that the First Amendment means that the government has--

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: You are approaching three minutes, if you would like to try to conclude.

DEANNA WALLACE: Yes. Thank you. As a general matter, the First Amendment means the government has no power to restrict expression because of its message, its ideas, its subject matter, or its content. As a result, the constitution demands that content-based restrictions on speech be presumed invalid and the government bear the responsibility of showing their constitutionality and that's from Ashcroft versus American civil liberties union. I know that I'm running out of time, so I have a lot of other you know, legal stuff that I'm more than happy to share with y'all if you'll have questions about it.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Much appreciate it thanks for your testimony. Representative Betts.

REP. BETTS (78TH): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you Deanna, for your question. I had a couple of questions. One is you've been citing these court cases across the country. And I don't know if it involved alleged false susceptive practices. Since you're an attorney could you tell me what are standards of deceptive practices? What is the threshold for violating them?

DEANNA WALLACE: So, it really would vary from state to state. I know Connecticut, for example, in CAPTA 105 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

has a very, very long detailed analysis of what exactly is deceptive. And it really would depend on each individual state's definition of it. Unfortunately, there is no definition in this legislation that would give us any insight at all on what would count. And especially when we're talking about something that is highly debatable. I mean, for instance earlier we were talking about Google placement and whether or not you should be able to show up in a Google search for abortion. How high on the list is too high. Can you not be allowed to show up at all? Can you not be in the top five and can a pregnancy center always determine this? Obviously yes, you can use Google ad-words to get higher on lists in some cases, but I mean, this is such a subjective type of complaint that it would be really hard for pregnancy centers to know where the line is.

REP. BETTS (78TH): And thank you for that. And let's assume that this legislation moved forward and was adopted. Where would the people who go to the centers now, where would they, what options would they have to go to somewhere if they did not want to have an abortion?

DEANNA WALLACE: If this legislation went forward, I think that we would see a lot less a lot less information about where those options would be because of the chilling nature of this legislation. Would we have these pregnancy centers being able to actually reach women to let them know that there were other options, or are we going to be too afraid to post a bus sign that says pregnant need help? Are we going to have to pay you know, a bunch of fees, it's really a preemptive attack on their ability to advertise because now they have to go back and redo everything? They have to look at their website, they have to spend all of this time and money that is taking away from the care that they get to help these women with and the care they get to offer. So, if we're talking about whether or not these centers would be able to effectively 106 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

advertise or if they would be too afraid to really get their message out there because they would be at risk of having to pay legal fees and things like that. I think it would definitely cause women to have less options.

REP. BETTS (78TH): Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Deanna.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you Representative. Are there any other questions? If not, thank you for your testimony. We really appreciate it.

DEANNA WALLACE: Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Next up is number 12. Jenna Binkhorst followed by number 14. Lauren Noce, excuse me, my best effort Dr. Binkhorst.

JENNA BINKHORST: Good evening everyone. My name is Dr. Jenna Binkhorst and I testify in strong support of SB 835. I am a third year OB/GYN resident. Let me start by highlighting the extensive education and training I've completed thus far. Four years of undergraduate education, four years of medical school and three years thus far of residency, which have focused on women's health. My 10 plus years of education and training have positioned me to appropriately counsel patients on their options when they have unexpectedly become pregnant. As you know, these include continuing the pregnancy adoption or abortion, while these may seem straightforward, there is additional medical nuanced, early pregnancy that only a qualified provider is well equipped to manage. For instance, failure, to identify an abnormal pregnancy such as an ectopic pregnancy, which is one of the pregnancy develops in the fallopian tube and its early stages can result in life-threatening bleeding and death. I took care of a patient not too long ago that presented to the emergency room. She had recently been to a limited service pregnancy center after having a positive pregnancy test at home, she 107 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

received an ultrasound and counseling and was told to come back in one week.

She continued returning to the clinic for an additional two to three appointments with similar counseling about her options, including continuing the pregnancy. One night, she developed excruciating pain at home and presented to the emergency room where she was found to have a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. She was internally bleeding and required emergency surgery as well as a blood transfusion and lost her fallopian tube during that surgery. The limited service pregnancy center that saw this patient several times throughout her early pregnancy, mismanaged her medical care instead of recognizing and diagnosing this life-threatening condition, they focused on counseling her to continue her pregnancy. The explicit intention of these deceptive practices has historically been to delay patient care beyond the point where abortion is legally feasible. Not only do we have an ethical obligation to give patients autonomy and their clinical decision-making, but this decision in particular is crucially a time-sensitive one.

The important medical consideration for politicians to understand is that different options are available to patients based on how far along they are in the pregnancy. Timing is of the essence. In response to Jeremy Bradley, when he referred to those that oppose this Bill as pro-abortion activists as a women's health physician that proudly takes care of women, and there are many varied needs. I find that term offensive. As Representative Fiorello correctly stated there's a difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice. I believe all my patients deserve accurate medical counseling about all of their choices. And while I support my patients who desire faith-based support, I recognize that a faith-based pregnancy center is by nature, biased, medical care.

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If a faith-based pregnancy organization has a faith- based agenda as to how women may make their choices, it is no longer falling under the guise of patient autonomy. This is not about free speech or freedom of religion. This is about accurate, safe medical care provided by licensed professionals who are capable of handling the many varied medical conditions that present in early pregnancy. Thus far in the hearing, we have focused intently on the lack of patient complaints filed as Senator Anwar mentioned the American college of obstetricians and gynecologists vehemently opposes crisis pregnancy centers across the board. And it is clear why when we see our patients receiving medical care, that puts them in danger and limits their autonomy of decision-making. We feel obligated to advocate for them in a public political arena such as this. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, good afternoon. And thank you for your testimony. Did you help you spoke about an individual who had a situation and it wasn't identified and you didn't speak about the specific pregnancy center and if you helped them file a complaint or not?

JENNA BINKHORST: To be honest, I don't know which crisis pregnancy center she had attended and I did not help her file a complaint because she was in a life-threatening situation and that was much more urgent than filing a political complaint.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): I just wondered, you know, why there was no follow up with perhaps making her or helping her file a complaint. You know, obviously we want to bring attention to something like that and we would want to know the specific center it was happening in, and I think many of us have concerns because we're not seeing any of these complaints raised so-- 109 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

JENNA BINKHORST: Well I guess my question, when we keep referencing these lack of patient complaints, I think that we should equally be concerned that I'm filing this complaint on behalf of her. She wasn't comfortable sharing this in a political arena. I understand that it's anonymous, but as we've mentioned before, that can be a really difficult system for a lay person to navigate. It's difficult for me to navigate and I'm a physician. So, I see it as my obligation on behalf of her and the many other patients I've taken care of who have personally filed complaints to me that I'm here representing their best interest in this political arena.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So are you saying that there's other complaints as well, that you have not assisted in filing--

JENNA BINKHORST: Absolutely. I've taken care of many patients who have had poor experiences at crisis pregnancy centers. I-- it is not my role as a physician to help them file complaints. It's my role to take care of them on a medical basis. I see it as a-- I'm personally invested in their care and that's why I'm here today.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): It's just difficult to try to identify any one specific center when you're not speaking about any one specific center, because obviously they're all different across the state--

JENNA BINKHORST: Yes. I understand that. I'm sorry. I don't have a specific center to speak of. I think that as long as we allow it to be legal, to practice the way that the centers are practicing, we're going to continue seeing patients such as this, regardless of the specific center that it's happening at, because I don't think that it should be legal for this to continue.

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REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): And so, you have names of the individuals that these incidents has happened and they specific ones--

JENNA BINKHORST: Off cause, but I'm not obligated. I'm not a licensed to be able to share that under HIPAA.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, the patients didn't give you permission to share?

JENNA BINKHORST: No.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Thank you.

JENNA BINKHORST: You're welcome.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Representative Kavros DeGraw.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Thank you. And thank you doctor for being here today. I appreciate it. My question is would you consider an ectopic pregnancy and especially the situation in which this patient found herself to be traumatic?

JENNA BINKHORST: Absolutely. Yes.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): And so, does trauma influence the patient's state of mind or perhaps the patient's behavior?

JENNA BINKHORST: I'm not sure that--

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): in terms of decision- making or you know, the ability to file a complaint or, you know, wouldn't be done in the moment obviously, but perhaps that traumatic experience might dictate behavior after the fact--

JENNA BINKHORST: I could see that being reasonable. Yes. If I can speak personally, if I, myself had been through a life-threatening situation that 111 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

required emergency surgery, the first thing that I did afterwards, or even many weeks later, it might not be to file a complaint.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): And I will say I had a friend who experienced an ectopic pregnancy. I actually babysat for her other child while that happened. And it was very traumatic. I appreciate the fact that you're being sensitive to not naming person. You know, I know you don't know the name in this case, but I appreciate that you're being sensitive. The fact of not naming, perhaps one of this specific location. And I say that because, you know, there are rules around, you know, slandering folks and businesses and that sort of thing. I appreciate that. But I, but in reference to the Bill that we're talking about is deceptive practices. Overall, could you remind us what is the last, you know week for being able to actually get an abortion in the state of Connecticut? How many weeks?

JENNA BINKHORST: In the state of Connecticut it's considered viability, which is 23 weeks and six days.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Okay. So, in that case if the inflammation at some of these centers wasn't given, as you said, in a timely fashion, then the woman who may actually want to terminate the pregnancy may get to a point of, I guess we could call it no return and that she would have to take that pregnancy to term. So, I think that, I guess what you were trying to say is that this, the timeliness of that information at these centers is critically important, correct?

JENNA BINKHORST: Absolutely. Yeah. I think I have taken care of patients as well, who have been receiving care through the early portion of their pregnancy at a crisis pregnancy center. And when they present for care, I unfortunately have to tell them that they have missed their, as you say, window 112 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

of opportunity to seek an abortion. That being said, there are also different options available to patients based on how far along they are in the pregnancy. For instance, if someone has unprotected intercourse, we can offer them emergency contraception, which is a low cost, low intervention, a safe option. Then there's medical terminations, which is also I mean, they're all abortion is safe in the scheme of the risk of complications, but medical abortion by comparison is safer than surgical. And the surgical procedure is safer earlier in the pregnancy that you perform it. So subjecting patients to a delay in care also suggests subjects them to potentially riskier procedures. That would be unnecessary.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Okay. I so appreciate your time today and thank you so much for your time it was helpful.

JENNA BINKHORST: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Representative. Representative Carpino.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Thank you, Ma'am. I'm just reading over testimony. I think Dr. Binkhorst might have submitted last year, and I'm just trying to identify perhaps some of the facts that maybe I've missed. I don't see in your testimony last year that you mentioned this particular instance with that said, could you give us some facts that are not under the purview of HIPAA to better understand when and where this might have occurred?

JENNA BINKHORST: It happened two years ago. I didn't choose to include it in my testimony last year. I was working at a local hospital when I saw this patient in the emergency room and took care of her at that time. I'm not sure what other specific information you're looking for.

113 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Sure. And I'm not a medical provider, although having had a few pregnancies, I do have a little bit of experience. As I think, many of us on this call have, can you just help me understand your medical obligations to report what you seem to be alleging as malpractice?

JENNA BINKHORST: Oh, that's a good question. To be honest, I am a resident. I'm not an attending physician. I haven't graduated my residency training. I report it to the physicians that I work under. I don't believe that I have an obligation to report malpractice, or if it counts as malpractice it's, if it's not from another licensed physician. So, this patient in question wasn't seen by another physician, she was seen by a person impersonating a physician, which under our current legal status is legal. And that's why I'm here today, because I don't believe that should be something that's illegal.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Well, great. Thank you for following up because now I really want to ask you a few more questions. So, do you know if it was a nurse or a medical provider?

JENNA BINKHORST: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): I would just caution you as some of our other speakers caution to the gentleman who spoke much earlier on to be particularly precise with your language, because if you're making an allegation that a medical provider performed something in appropriately, I would just hope that we speak facts so that we know, in fact it was a medical provider. I'm simply trying to get to the heart of this matter and understand what we're dealing with. I appreciate you telling us that you were, you were not a physician yet, and that you did not believe you had an obligation or unsure when this occurred two years ago, but I would be curious to know if you had any ethical training at that 114 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

point in time as to know how you should have reported it so that we can learn to best solve any problems that are out there.

JENNA BINKHORST: Sorry to clarify. I am a physician I've been a physician for three years after you complete medical school, you complete a residency training in which you are a physician I'm undergoing training in your specific field. And my field is OB/GYN. So as a response to the ethical obligation, I believe this is my ethical obligation to be here today, to be advocating on behalf of my patients who have received poor medical care. And to bring this issue to light, to all of you who might not see the medical ramifications of this law not being pounced.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Thank you. So, and maybe I'm being an artful and then to the chairs, this will be my final question, because this is really just what I'm trying to understand. If you see what you believe to be malpractice by another medical professional, what are your legal obligations?

JENNA BINKHORST: So, as I said before, I don't believe that this patient received care from another medical professional. I believe she received care from a lay person who was impersonating a medical professional. And that's why I don't believe that it falls under the guise of medical malpractice.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): I think we'll, we'll defer a little bit, but cheer us. Thank you for the time.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Representative. Senator Somers.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Yes. And thank you for being here. I have a couple of questions to follow up with the previous Representative. I'm looking at your testimony from 2020 also. And you talk about an atopic pregnancy and in your testimony from last year, and then in this testimony, you said you had 115 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

one recently, is that the two-year-old atopic pregnancy that you had that you're speaking about now?

JENNA BINKHORST: Yes.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay. And then you are obligated to report as soon as you graduate and you become a DEO. You graduated with--

JENNA BINKHORST: I'm sorry, I am a DEO. I am a physician now.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Right? So, there is an obligation to report. There's also an obligation to report if somebody is practicing medical without a license. So, when you say that they were impersonating, it's your opinion that they were impersonating a physician or a clinical person and that's your opinion, is that correct? You don't have the proof of that.

JENNA BINKHORST: No, I was not in the room when this patient received care. I can only go by what she shared with me when I took care of her.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): And there's a lot of, we want to be clear on the language because there's been a lot of allegations made today.

JENNA BINKHORST: Absolutely.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): So, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I just want to be clear for people that are listening. So, my question is you want to get rid of, you don't think that pregnancy crisis centers should exist. That's what you said. They should be.

JENNA BINKHORST: I believe that crisis pregnancy centers, if they exist, should be providing accurate medical information, which they do not always, for instance, I've seen crisis pregnancy centers 116 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

advertising abortion reversal pills. That is not a medical thing that exists. I believe that's false advertising to imply that patients would think that that is possible. So, if they are to exist, I believe that they should employ licensed medical professionals and be upfront with the services that they offer to not deceive patients as well as to, yeah, to not deceive patients.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay. So, do you have the data or where have you seen these abortion reversal pills? This information on that? Where has that been? Is that Connecticut?

JENNA BINKHORST: Yes. In Connecticut. I saw it at a crisis pregnancy center in Hartford.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay. Comes back to Hartford. And you talk in your testimony about deceptive practices. Have you-- do you have proof that the centers are making people come back like you say until it's too late to get a termination, or is that just anecdotal information?

JENNA BINKHORST: It's anecdotal information. I haven't personally been a patient of these facilities before, so I can't speak to from that, from a patient perspective, I can speak to it from the information that my patients share with me.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): So, if you have a pregnancy crisis center, and I know for example there are a few like Care Net has certain facilities that are clinics. They have medical staff there that are performing you know, ultrasounds and will provide some prenatal care and they have testified previously that they have, I think it's an APRN on staff. So that's a pregnancy crisis center. Are you saying that they should not be allowed to service clients that come in to them or is it just, you know, could you be more specific and how do you feel about hospitals that do not provide all of the 117 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

services that planned Parenthood may, may provide? How do you make that?

JENNA BINKHORST: Yeah that's a good question. So, let me be clear. I don't think that every facility should perform an abortion. I believe that every facility should be upfront with what they do and do not perform and offer for patients. And that patients receive full scope counseling, and then are able to make their own choices. If that patient who goes to the pregnancy center that you mentioned seeks an abortion. I think it is up to the, it is the ethical responsibility of the APRN who's employed there to tell her about all of her options, including an abortion. And if the patient chooses to seek an abortion, then she should be referred to a facility where that's possible. If that is true, then I don't think there's any issue with it. It just has not been my experience working with patients who have been to some of these places.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay. as you can see for us, this is not easy because there are, you know, people have the right to free speech. They have a right. We're hearing one thing from one side, another thing from another side, and there's no data, there's no proof, you know, we have people going undercover to try to catch somebody saying something there's no definition of deceptive. And many of these particular crisis centers provide a service to thousands of women across Connecticut.

JENNA BINKHORST: Yes, I understand.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Again, we have not had one complaint other than these anecdotal complaints. So, and I will say, I did look at the NARAL website, and I was really concerned with the language that they use. They call these places fake pregnancy centers, fake health centers. So, we're just trying to get the clear real data. And I was concerned because I knew I remembered your testimony from years before and you referenced in ectopic 118 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

pregnancy, and it's my understanding. You can't really do anything for an ectopic pregnancy regardless of when you have this, when they have, when that particularly happens. And then you just said in your testimony, you heard that it was recent. And in your testimony, you talked about it previously in two years, to me, it's not necessarily recent. So, I just want it to be clear on a few things. So, I thank you for coming and speaking to us, and you've provided us with some things to really think about.

JENNA BINKHORST: Yeah, I appreciate your comments. And I apologize if anything was less clear, was not clear. I think to me, deceptive and I know that hasn't been formally defined yet in this Bill, as others have said, but to me, deceptive is I'm trying to mislead patients for your own personal political agenda. I have my own personal political agenda, but it's not involved in my medical care or the way that I counsel patients. And I think that if a center is intentionally trying to push their own agenda on a patient's choices, that that's an infringement upon patient autonomy. And that to me is deceptive. So, I think that, you know, we've referenced this I've heard this referenced earlier as a competition and one side or the other make no mistake, my-- I don't think this is a competition. I don't see one side or the other, if my patient chooses to continue her pregnancy, I'm ecstatic, but it's not my choice to make it's hers. And I think that too often, we let this topic get politicized and we lose the medical necessity as we're talking about it. And so, my intention in being here is to highlight the medical dangers that are possible from some of these practices.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay. I would like to ask you a question, you talk about politicizing.

JENNA BINKHORST: Yes

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SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): So how is an organization that is faith, maybe faith-based maybe not providing what they consider a service to women that have an unplanned pregnancy, whether it's prenatal care, free diapers, how has that political?

JENNA BINKHORST: Well, I think if a patient chooses to continue her pregnancy and they're offering supportive resources, I don't think that is political, but if a patient is unsure about what to do with her pregnancy, and they're not giving her all of the medical options, because it's not in their religious belief, that is the confusing religion with politics.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): So, if they're not giving her all the options, there's hospitals that don't perform abortions, are they then political that's--

JENNA BINKHORST: No. Because I think that there are hospitals that don't perform abortions that still counsel patients on their options, they choose to seek different option than they would refer patients as necessary. So, it's not that you need to perform everything it's that you need to make patients aware of their choices so that they can make an informed decision.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Well, I did look at some of the websites from some of the different pregnancy centers and they do talk about abortion on all of their sites that I looked at. I might not have looked at all of them. So that's why I'm just trying to you know, one could argue that NARAL who wants this Bill passed is a political organization trying to push this through.

JENNA BINKHORST: Sure.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): So, I just want to be really clear on the language here, because this is an emotional topic for many.

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JENNA BINKHORST: Sure, I understand.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): So, I thank you for your answer.

JENNA BINKHORST: You're welcome.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much, Senator. Senator Anwar.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Dr. Binkhorst for your testimony. I truly appreciate it. And I think your clarity was very helpful for me. And if I heard you correctly what you, what you're stating is that timeliness and appropriate management by professional is critical it could be life threatening if not provided at the timely fashion.

JENNA BINKHORST: Absolutely.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And besides ectopic pregnancies, are there other challenges that we have to identify early in the pregnancy?

JENNA BINKHORST: Absolutely. I mean, maternal co- morbidities or maternal medical conditions can pose a pregnant that pregnancy can pose serious risks for. It should be identified early so that patients can be counseled on the effect the pregnancy would have on her health and appropriately managed from an early point in the pregnancy.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And if somebody, again, I'm talking medicine, I'm not talking politics at all. I'm just talking about the fact that early identification now. Do you think that we have healthcare disparities in our state with respect to, well, all age? I mean, all age groups.

JENNA BINKHORST: Yes, I do.

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SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And if we have disparities, is it fair to say that the opportunity in the entity to the minorities are not as good for having appropriate or best level of health care?

JENNA BINKHORST: Frequently? Unfortunately, yes. I think that's true.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And if that is the case. Then if there's an advertisement that is there, which talks free pair to somebody with pregnancy, would they be feeling that well, because we obviously cannot afford this is going to be an area to be able to get the state-of-the-art standardized care?

JENNA BINKHORST: Yes, absolutely. And I think it also preys upon a low health literacy, which unfortunately frequently is more common among racial and ethnic minority patients.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And in that situation whether they want, whether they are interested in abortion or not abortion, that's not even an issue that I'm worried about but if they want it here and they go to a facility which is more focused on prevention of abortion, rather than proper medical management of a pregnancy. Would that be unfair to that patient and the child?

JENNA BINKHORST: Absolutely. Yes.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): I think we are too caught into the pregnancy and abortion aspect and then continuation of that, because we've lost focus on the fact that a lot of individuals would be very much, again, willing to continue with their pregnancy, but they are going to a facility which is obsessed about one aspect versus the other, where we are losing the focus that majority of the people overwhelming majority of the minority community, especially in underserved areas, they want to complete the pregnancies and they need initial care to be able to complete it. And I think that is the 122 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

biggest chunk of the responsibility that we have. And we are losing out in our battles. Is that just, am I thinking logically here or

JENNA BINKHORST: No, not at all. I think that it's perfectly reasonable to think that logically, and that is, I guess what I meant when I said this topic gets politicized, it becomes one side versus the other, and the medical care is lost the medical care that patients need and deserve. And it's our responsibility to provide. When we get too caught up on if they're continuing the pregnancy or not, we miss a crucial opportunity to be able to appropriately take care of them. And I think that it's an important thing that no one so far has even mentioned. I'm the 12th speaker, and this is the first time that the medical nature of a patient's care in this Bill has come up and that's upsetting to me. So yes, I completely agree with you Senator Anwar, so thank you for bringing that point up.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And can I also say that if the American college of obstetrics and gynecology position is not a political position, it's a very focused obsessively medical position.

JENNA BINKHORST: Absolutely. Yes.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And the rationale for that position is of course, for the best care for the patient, but also not having lay in appropriate level of care, because if you have pregnancy-induced hypertension, if you have diabetes gestational diabetes, the future of the fetus is at stake.

JENNA BINKHORST: Absolutely. Yes, there are medical conditions that pose both a risk to the pregnancy and the pregnancy poses a risk to the mother. And both of those things should be appropriately managed early on, but patients should also be aware of them. You know, there are certain conditions in which patients are not recommended to become pregnant again. And it would be unsafe and 123 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

put their life in danger. They should know that as early as possible to appropriately manage their care. But as you said, also to appropriately manage the fetus, if they have uncontrolled diabetes and they're pregnant from an early standpoint, and they want to continue the pregnancy, that's wonderful, but they need good appropriate medical care from an early gestation to be able to do that safely for themselves and for the fetus.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And I understand that in the medical field if somebody is an expert or providing care in a specific area, and they mention that there are providing it in a different area that is inaccurate and not true.

JENNA BINKHORST: Yes.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And I think the other reason why at least the Connecticut state medical society, or your organization has said that is that they are not taking a political position, they're saying state facts and that's all?

JENNA BINKHORST: Yes. Correct. And it is meant to be a medical organization, not a political one, like NARAL or any other organization that was mentioned earlier by Senator Somers. It isn't medical organization alone.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And what I would say again, through you through, we actually have our biases, I have my bias. I would want the women to make their choices. I want them to feel protected. I want them to have the best level of care, whatever choice they make also feel there's a bias that we need to be able to clearly state what services are being provided, and then just provide those services and not provide something else and do it in a manner and use all sorts of ways to get your market through other means, but not protective practices. Again, everybody has every right to be able to use faith and then use convincing power that they have, but do 124 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

it in a black and white clear manner. And when we actually do it in a manner to vulnerable population, which is actually having a bias product of resulting in poor pregnancy outcome and poor health outcomes for women who are the majority of them who want that care, we are doing this service, this battle, actually, they are the real victims of this battle of saving lives or not. So, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to come and speak. And I think having a professional who actually deals with it understands it really is helpful.

JENNA BINKHORST: Thank you so much.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you, Madam Chair. It was a Madam Chair, right?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Yes.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I don't see any other questions. So, thank you so much for your time, doctor.

JENNA BINKHORST: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next. We have Lorri Valle followed by Lauren Noce. Is Lorri Valle here? I don't see her. So, we'll move on to Lauren Noce.

LAUREN NOCE: Hello. Thank you. My name is Lauren Noce. I am the-- you know, almost there. I'm the co-client director of Carolyn's Place pregnancy care center. I wanted to take the time today to testify in opposition to SB 835. I submitted a written testimony, but I'd like to take this time to share with you a client's experience and story of her experience at Carolyn's Place. So, I've changed the names to preserve client privacy, but the client asked me to share her specific story today. Bethany called on a Tuesday morning and I asked her if she 125 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

could schedule an ultrasound for her friend, Esther that's any explain that Esther was terrified. She hadn't told anyone about her pregnancy, but her.

So, Esther had had a few abortions in the past, and Bethany knew how much Esther struggled after each one. Bethany held Esther's hands. And the young ladies traveled down to the Waterbury Greene to our mobile ultrasound van. Bethany supported her friend and explained that even if no one else in Esther's family would care for her baby Bethany would. And now that Bethany found Carolyn's Place, she sure that we would be there along the way to provide loving care, support, and total acceptance to Esther and her unborn child. After Bethany and Esther's experience on the ultrasound van, it was discovered that Esther was at least 20 weeks pregnant. Esther was upset about her pregnancy, but with the help of Bethany, she was able to take a first step in prenatal care to talk to our sonographer.

Lauren and Trudy, our pregnancy counselor on the van. And they were able to provide her with lots of care and resources, including resources to medical facilities. So, one day Bethany called me to tell me that she'd given Esther my number and encouraged her to reach out to me for support. I was so incredibly happy and nervous at the same time. So many questions were racing through my mind. Did Esther have an abortion? Did she tell her family about the pregnancy? Did they support her? Did her parents kick her out of the house? Did her boyfriend pressure her? Does she need a place to stay? I was, my mind was racing. So instead of freaking myself out, I asked for prayers for everyone that I knew for Esther and her unborn child. And I prayed to God that she would help me to show Esther the love and support she needed no matter what she was dealing with. So, I'm currently working with Esther and I'm excited to share she's going to keep her baby. She recently told her boyfriend and family.

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She finally went to the doctor and found out that she was pregnant with a little girl, and she's still scared, but in a good way for her baby to arrive. So, to conclude, I am opposed to this Bill SB 835, because it's accusing all Connecticut pregnancy centers of false advertising. We do not at Carolyn's Place nor any agency that I know of advertised for services that we don't provide. What kind of agency does that? So, in conclusion, I hope that you consider this story and my testimony when you vote against this Bill, thank you for your time.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much for your testimony. Representative-- wait let me check Representatives Zupkus.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Lauren, for coming today, you know, you do great work and I've been to Carolyn's Place quite a few times, and I'm just truly grateful for what you do and how you help everyone, you know, you help people. And so, I just wanted to thank you for coming up today because I know it's not easy but advocating for what you do in all the right places. So, thanks.

LAUREN NOCE: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Senator Anwar.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Noce. Did I get it right?

LAUREN NOCE: Yes, you did. Thank you.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you for your testimony and thank you for the services that you're providing. And I was really touched by the fact that you take pride in the work that you're doing, but also taking the pride in the fact that you are accurately stating what services you provide and what services you don't. Right?

127 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

LAUREN NOCE: Correct.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): So that's the-- and if let's say in your industry where you are arguably a model of doing it in a right way, and there are others who are not following the appropriate model, then you should actually be front and center of supporting this Bill rather than saying don't support this Bill. So, I cannot make that connection. Can you help me with that please?

LAUREN NOCE: Yeah. So as people have testified before me and Senator Zupkus or Representative Zupkus said before. So, the Bill that's in front of us right. Is really vague. And its definitions that there, it's not really saying what deceptive advertising is. And some people who were in support of this Bill, right. Have said that crisis pregnancy centers, like the one that I work at are deceiving people and they're labeling all of us. Right? All of Connecticut pregnancy centers, I think Senator Somers said this as well are on a report. Right. And we're being called out for doing something that we're not doing. So that's my- - I guess passion where it comes from, right. That I want this Bill to be opposed because it's not being clear in its language and what they're considering as deceptive advertising, which I told you, like we don't deceive anyone.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Right. So, and again, my understanding of this Bill is a little bit different, but let's say if this Bill was saying that if a pregnancy center like yours is doing everything right, and not making a statement that is inaccurate and they have every right to continue to do what they're doing, would that make you a little safer and happier?

LAUREN NOCE: I mean, what would the Bill need to, why would it need to pass if we're doing everything right. And other people like shouldn't label, they shouldn't like playing fields, be leveled. And 128 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

shouldn't like, I just don't know why this Bill would need to be passed because there's already laws that say that deceiving advertising or deceptive, you know, and that, and there's ways like they were talking about. And I don't know, cause I'm not a lawyer, but the lawyer was speaking about it before that there's ways to bring cases up against somebody, if they're doing something wrong already. And there's different legislation and different actions that could be done, I guess, CAPTA or whatever they were talking about before, which I don't know anything about. So, I really can't speak to that. But if there was really some complaints or something that people were doing wrong, then it's already able to be you know taken care of. We don't need another Bill that's very vague that doesn't say what deceptive advertising is that is on the books, right. Because there's already laws to deal with it.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): So, again from a legislative perspective, I can share with you is that we try to make the laws for people who don't follow the rules and from what your description, and then also from a confirmation from Representatives Zupkus, you not only follow the rules, you do them very well. So this is actually not necessarily going to have an impact on you, because if you are not putting information or material or marketing that is actually inaccurate and wrongful from the services that you're providing, then you are actually going to get more support rather than less support because you are already doing the right thing, but it's sort of protecting you from others who are actually not doing the right thing. And I think that's why I was trying to make that connections. I understand that your position is more from the fear that it's impacting everybody rather than the truth, that it is only going to look at the ones who are not following the better and appropriate recommendations and having deceptive advertisements. So, it does not necessarily impact you except the others in your industry. It may impact them negatively. 129 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

LAUREN NOCE: Well, I mean, I totally understand, but just like I have my own viewpoint. Everybody has different viewpoints and to make one person in charge of what deceptive advertising is and to hold us to a standard, what is deceptive advertising? I mean, on NARAL's report, it says pregnant need help. Is that deceptive advertising? Like, I mean, and you know, the point's been thrown to the mud because everybody, you know, has talked about it. But you know, previous testifying against it. So, I mean, I'm just here because like, yes, you're right.

If it, you know, this Bill would not necessarily apply to Carolyn's Place, but who's to say they don't find one of our things deceiving. And then we have to pay a bunch of legal fees and everything like that. Like, you know, that's when there's already laws that could hold us accountable. If we had anybody that complained about anything. So that's what I'm saying. Like there's already laws and if people have problems with it or something that we do, then they should be using the laws that are already going on. Because right now we're in a midst of a public health, huge crisis. Right. And why are we dealing with, like, why is this even being brought up right now? I don't know. I just find it political. And I find it like hurtful to organizations that are really, really helping our communities.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): From a consumer protection perspective. From what I've heard about what you said about yourself, you should not have any fear at least from legislation. But thank you so much for your testimony and thank you, Madam Chair for allowing me to ask the question.

LAUREN NOCE: Thank you, sir.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Representative Dauphinais.

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REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, and thank you for your testimony. I just, you know, you kind of highlighted something for me because we keep hearing over and over again from different centers or different Representatives from the centers that they aren't practicing deceitful advertising. They've not been given anything factual to support that. And they're saying that they're not doing anything wrong in their practice and no complaints have been submitted to them. So, I guess it’s kind of a rhetorical question for you, but how would you expect them to address something that nobody's given them any evidence that has occurred? And it's just, this is, I think what we're facing here is the claim is deceptive advertising, and there's been no proof of any deceptive advertising or individuals not being informed. And so, you're saying you're doing everything right. And I believe the other centers believe they're doing everything right as well. Correct?

LAUREN NOCE: Correct. And also, I mean, anyone, if you need any kind of service, you're going to Google it, right. You know what you want and you know where to go for what you want, you know, so if I need something medical, I'm going to Google where where's the hospital near me, or where's the, you know, medical practice near me. If I want some spiritual or help in a decision, right. I'm going to go to a church. If I want something to deal with pregnancy resources or something to help my children. Right. Because we have parenting programs at Carolyn's Place. I'm going to go to Carolyn's Place, you know, like I think it's, it's it. Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, I agree with you what you said so I don't want to go and change it.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, no, I thank you for that. I think you did a good job of highlighting the frustration that many of us have with this Bill and how it's written and how we're trying to address 131 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

something that hasn't been really identified in any way, shape or form factually. So, thank you.

LAUREN NOCE: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Senator Somers.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Yes. thank you for your testimony and for being here today, I had a question for you. You said something that I wanted to ask somebody who was either running or working in a pregnancy crisis center. So, I'd like to follow up on the question, which is we heard from some MDs previously that they're concerned about somebody coming to a pregnancy crisis center because they feel they wouldn't get the appropriate prenatal care. But I heard you say, if somebody decides they want to go ahead with the pregnancy and they have been found to be pregnant, that you refer them to medical providers.

LAUREN NOCE: Correct.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Do you also-- so you're-- if I came, I know I'm a little old, but if I came and I found out I was going to be a mother again, then you could refer me to a medical physician who would then take over my care-

LAUREN NOCE: That's correct.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): your facility doesn't try to take the place of an OB/GYN, correct, or--

LAUREN NOCE: No way.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): and would you also be able to help these individuals if they don't have insurance sign up for like Husky or do you do that kind of stuff, could you do--

LAUREN NOCE: Exactly, what we do every single day?

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SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Because I was left with the impression from other speakers that they, you know, they see you or your organizations as something that's, you know, maybe trying to replicate what good, you know, care is from my medical provider, but from the ones that I have visited, that is not the case at all. You are, and I don't want to speak for you. So, could you speak to that at all, please?

LAUREN NOCE: Of cause--

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): And how you prefer? I think that's important--

LAUREN NOCE: Of cause I completely a hundred percent agree with you and thank you for bringing that up. Yes. So, what we do every day is at Carolyn's Place. We are not a licensed medical professional building whatsoever. We are a pregnancy resource center. It's clear on all of our literature, like all of our websites that, you know, you know what you're getting into when you come to us. And we work with-- as do other pregnancy centers as well. A lot of people in our community and different places, including hospitals around us, we're located really close to Waterbury hospital and St. Mary's in Waterbury and people refer us and they help with, we help with cribs and car seats and stuff like that for moms who are pregnant. And so yeah, we're not, I'm not a doctor I'm I work as somebody like a peer counselor, basically, I would call myself and we have those resources to help them with whatever they need at any point in time. And I think Jeremy did a really great job at in his testimony of saying exactly what pregnancy resource centers offer. So--

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): So, if I were, if I came in, would you be able to refer me to, do you work with certain clinicians in your area where you can refer people--

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LAUREN NOCE: Yes, we have a list of referrals that you know, prenatal care and doctors and specific recommendations of places that we would give numbers to. We'd help them to call if a mom or if a woman's nervous and in crisis, and really doesn't know about you know, what am I going to do? We'll help her to get the medical care that she actually needs to one, see if the pregnancy is viable. Two, see if, you know, if there's anything fallopian-- you know, whatever the doctor was saying, which I don't know. So, I have to make those referrals because I can't counsel somebody on their pregnancy because I'm not a licensed physician. So, I would refer those.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): And if the person does not have, like, or, you know, let's say it's a young person and they're not you know, signed up with insurance. You help them with that kind of stuff.

LAUREN NOCE: That's correct.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Have you ever had somebody where you couldn't refer them for the medical care that they needed, you know, help them, get an appointment?

LAUREN NOCE: No.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay. Thank you. I think that's an important thing for people to hear. Thank you.

LAUREN NOCE: Yes, I think so, too. Thank you for asking.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much. I think those are all the questions. Thank you for being here today.

LAUREN NOCE: All right. Thank you very much. Thank you for all you do everyone.

134 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thanks. The next speaker is Chalaine Kilduff.

CHALAINE KILDUFF: Hello?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Hello. Thank you for being here. Go ahead.

CHALAINE KILDUFF: I'm Chalaine Kilduff and I am speaking today in opposition of SB 835 as a writer, who's worked in advertising and marketing for over 10 years. This Bill to me is very confusing. It's confusing because it has no evidence to bring it into existence and no details to describe how it works. If it should pass. I feel that it is an embarrassing attempt to shut down pregnancy centers that do so much for these communities that we live in. Though, the claim is about deceptive practices. This Bill is full of deception itself, and that it includes no reasonable explanation or examples of any deceptive media that any of these centers have ever put out.

I have written advertisements for many very large healthcare systems and insurance companies throughout the country. This experience has allowed me to know firsthand the very specific and careful way that you have to say certain things when it comes to healthcare. These places obviously do not want to be sued. That's why they have what we in the advertising world calls, style guides. These guides provide advertisers and writers, the ins and outs of how we should portray them to the public. These guides give us parameters that we can base our messaging off of. This Bill gives us nothing to go off of in creating these kinds of guidelines. It claims that Connecticut pregnancy centers are deceptive in our advertising. However, where's the explanation of what they deemed deceptive. Where are the clients complaining that they were quote, deceived?

135 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

This Bill continues to be presented year after year, but what we never see is the proof. Without proof to determine what's been considered deceptive. Even if we were to hire professional advertising agencies, like the ones I've worked for, who provides us with the terms and the wording that we are allowed to use, with the vague and unproven wording of this Bill, if it were to pass, who deems what is deceptive moving forward? Because one person's idea of what is considered deceptive can be completely contradictory to someone else's. There are many other reasons that I oppose this Bill and consider it extremely targeted and unjustified. But as a writer who deals with legalities and boundaries that I have to factor in every day as I write advertisements, I'm here to strongly oppose it as it's extremely broad and full of unclear wording.

If proponents of this Bill want to target these faith-based nonprofits. I'd suggest that there's a stronger argument because right now all they have is a debatable accusation at best. If they were really pro-choice, they would celebrate the facilities in their communities that offer free support and help to moms who choose to come to our centers. Trying to shut down these centers actually goes against the very argument they stand on. A woman's ability to make her own choices. I'd urge them to stop continuing to push a Bill simply because of a bias and start attempting to work together for the betterment of not just the few future babies of our state, but the woman in moms who so desperately need our help. Thank you very much.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you for your testimony. I don't see any hands raised, so thank you so much for being here and for taking your time. Thank you.

CHALAINE KILDUFF: Thank you very much, Ma'am.

136 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have Lydia Bennett, Lydia is number 19 so next people are following along. Lydia are you there?

LYDIA BENNETT: Yes, I am. Can you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Go right ahead? Thank you.

LYDIA BENNETT: Members of the public health committee. My name is Lydia Bennett and I'm here in strong opposition of SB 835. For the past three years when this Bill is debated, I hear it said that quote, this is not about abortion, this is about truth and advertising. Supporters of this Bill make it sound like they're coming from a neutral objective standpoint. When in reality, there are groups like NARAL that are actively seeking ways to oppose the work of pregnancy centers because of the abortion issue. I was looking at a website exposefakeclinics.com, which natural used as a source in their 2018 report, which we've heard about today. This website literally provides a step-by- step process on how to pretend to be a pregnancy resource center client. And I quote from the website, step number one, you pick your clinics. Step number two, put your consumer hat on. Take a good hard look at the fake clinic’s website, putting yourselves in the shoes of someone that's looking for an actual abortion provider, which incidentally this step assumes that someone seeking information regarding a pregnancy is looking for an abortion, but that's both narrow-minded and untrue.

And then also in my submitted testimony, I included a couple of things. They then list, which helped these people determine if a center is a fake clinic. And then I also included demonstrations of how these points are inaccurate, continuing on step number three, they say, want to go deeper, give them a call. And then it goes on to suggest lies that you can say over the phone, such as I'm pregnant and I'm scared, or I want to get an abortion or things like 137 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

that. Step number four, they say to write your review, then they say pro-tip reviewing fake clinics is way more fun when you're doing it as a team, we highly encourage you to grab a bottle of wine and get your feminist book club together to organize a fun reviewathon. So, as I'm reading this, I'm thinking you can't claim to be concerned about truth in advertising while instructing people to be misleading.

So, the question is who is really concerned about truth here? If we look at the spill objectively in light of what I have read, how are we not to believe that the same people that would get together with friends and a glass of wine to have a reviewathon would not come to the Attorney General armed with quote, evidence of complaints from quote clients and drag a pregnancy center to court for claiming them guilty until proven innocent. When in reality Care Net reported that the true satisfaction rate of clients from affiliated centers is higher than 97%. That's real clients, people that have actually talked on the phone, gone to the website, walked into the building and experienced actual services. So, let's be honest. There are people in our good organizations who strongly oppose pregnancy resource centers, and this Bill would easily allow legal accusations of deceptive advertising. No one can say it will not happen. The very fact that we're discussing this Bill is proof that it will. So once again, I urge you to reject this Bill.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much Representative Zupkus.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. Hi, Lydia. Nice to see you. Thank you for coming. And so, you're affiliated with Hope in Cheshire, do they get any money from the state?

LYDIA BENNETT: No.

138 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): So, one of the concerns that I have from this Bill is that you have a pregnancy center you know, there's these claims, supposedly that we can't get to the bottom of, or know who's filing these claims and if it goes to the Attorney General, then what is going to happen? What would happen if a claim came to the Attorney General, what would happen to the Hope Center?

LYDIA BENNETT: I don't really know. I mean,

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): They would be devastated--

LYDIA BENNETT: Right, yeah.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Right? I mean, I could imagine just like Carolyn's Place is, you know, these are centers that they can't go up against the state if they did that they would be decimated. And so, one of the, one of the many concerns I have, but is that, you know, here are these faith-based pregnancy centers that get no money from the state that have to rely on public to get a grant or what have you. And it would decimate them. And if there were really true claims that somebody could identify I would love to hear that, but I'm really concerned about, we haven't been able to identify any specific claims and that these things, if they came up, they would decimate the pregnancy centers, the faith- based pregnancy centers. So, thank you for coming and sharing your testimony. Nice to see you.

LYDIA BENNETT: Me, too.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Senator summers.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Yes. Thank you for your testimony. I have to say, if you could just repeat, you're saying that there is what was the website fake center fake.

LYDIA BENNETT: Yes. In my written testimony, I actually footnote all of this where I got the 139 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

information from. So, it's, the website is exposedfakeclinic.com. And I found that when I was just like looking around in NARAL's report that they had released in--

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): I remember this vaguely. And if you go to NARAL, it talks about fake clinics. But so, you know, I do find it disturbing that we're talking about false advertising or deceptive advertising. Yet we have an organization that is pushing this Bill that is encouraging people to go to a website and you know, go through this has the steps laid out to me, that's deceptive in the you know, the push for this particular Bill. So, if you could send that information to the committee, that would be really helpful. It may be in your testimony, but if you have pictures of those steps, that would be-- talk about politicizing a Bill that I find your testimony disturbing, if it's true. Thank you for, for testifying.

LYDIA BENNETT: Sure.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much, Senator. I don't see any other questions. Thank you for your time.

LYDIA BENNETT: All right. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next number 20 Edward Gales, followed by 22. Annie Schreck. Gales are you there? You're on mute, Gales, if you don't know.

EDWARD GALES: Let me unmute.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Now, there you are. We've got you now, go ahead.

EDWARD GALES: Thank you very much. My name is Edward Gales from Westbrook Connecticut. Thank you for allowing me to give testimony at this virtual public hearing on SB 835. I will state that I 140 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

believe that life begins at conception and at the unborn baby has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I fail to understand the logic that this Bill brings to the table. Stifling the free speech of pregnancy centers actually restricts the choice that women have during a crisis pregnancy. Women need to have options when faced with a crisis pregnancy and the pregnancy resource centers, give them an alternative option to explore. This Bill is not pro-choice. This Bill is actually anti-choice. I have visited several pregnancy resource centers, one the crisis pregnancy center in Unionville as a member of the Care Net system, they have been at the same location, giving assistance to women for over 30 plus years. They not only offer counseling, but diapers, wipes, baby clothing, cribs, car seats, grocery gift cards, adoption connections, referrals for prenatal care and most important offering a real celebration of not only the life of their unborn baby, but of the lives of the mom and dads who are requesting assistance.

They are professional, compassionate, and caring. Another PRC that I have visited is the Hartford women's center. They are located in the same commercial condominium complex as the abortion clinic, the Hartford GYN center, the signage is controlled by the condo association. Not them. Their president is a medical physician and they offer to moms and dads in a crisis, pregnancy counseling classes, ultrasounds, adoption, referrals, clothing, baby needs, and other necessities in a caring and compassionate atmosphere and manner. Their literature, signage and offices are definitely not deceptive. However, if we are discussing deception, consider the doublespeak that abortion clinics offer a client. A baby is a fetus and abortion is a pregnancy termination. Abortion is reproductive rights a woman has control over her own body, yes, perhaps for a tattoo, but that doesn't include the body of a baby in the womb, a separate human being. I would state that they should be honest and say it as a baby, a life that 141 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

is being ended. If we are discussing choice. What about the choice of the unborn baby, a separate human being to life? Why not add these deceptions of abortion clinics such as planned Parenthood, Connecticut, and the Hartford GYN center to Bill 835? Makes sense to me. Further, there is another factor that you must take into consideration the cost of this legislation.

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Mr. Gales, you're approaching three minutes, if you could conclude your remarks.

EDWARD GALES: Sure. Considered that the City of Hartford last year established a similar ordinance. In 2018, the US Supreme Court had previously ruled against a similar law in California. The Connecticut court in its wisdom, ruled in favor of the plaintiffs and crafted a settlement in favor of the plaintiffs that which made the city's ordinance ineffective for a city that is budget strapped and inconceivable spend the time effort in taxpayers' money in ordinances, which are politically motivated, but not legally rooted. When the state of Connecticut has 9 Billion of unfunded state liabilities, does it make prudent fiscal sense to spend the time, effort and budget of the attorney General's office for enforcement and a taxpayer's money on a Bill that is not legally rooted. I am one of those taxpayers and I would not be prudent. It would not be prudent nor fiscally responsible to consider the Bill. I urge you to vote no on SB 835. Thank you for your consideration.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Mr. Gales. I don't see any questions. So, I want to thank you for your time and testimony.

EDWARD GALES: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Have a great day.

EDWARD GALES: You too.

142 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have Annie Schreck followed by Kate Shemeth.

ANNIE SCHRECK: Thank you for your time. I am a--

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing her.

ANNIE SCHRECK: This is Rose.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): My granddaughter is Rose, I am very partial to Roses. Thank you. Go ahead, I'm sorry, go ahead.

ANNIE SCHRECK: That's okay. Thank you for letting me join. Let me introduce myself. My name's Annie Schreck. I'm a retired attorney and mother to seven children. And I'm speaking to you today to oppose this Bill. My primary argument is that as many of you have said or have heard that deception, the term deception is not capable of being fairly applied. If we look at the planned Parenthood website, they very clearly say that they provide abortions and then they say pregnant, get help. I'm not sure what kind of help that they provide. I know for a fact that they don't refer to crisis pregnancy centers.

And I know that they also are very happy to refer or to encourage abortions, particularly when children have, when babies have genetic disorders such as Rose. Similarly, if we're going to talk about censoring speech, we can talk about what genetic counselors are able to say. I can, I'll speak to my own experience with Rose in a moment.

Genetic counselors also are not accurately advertising. Sorry. I feel distracted, Joseph. Sorry about that. So, I'll tell you what I experienced when I was pregnant with my daughter Rose, I had, I did not have genetic counseling and we were surprised that Rose had Down's Syndrome when she was born next child after Rose, I did do genetic counseling and we tested for Down's Syndrome. And I 143 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

was told that the genetic counselors at a Catholic hospital in Connecticut, that I could be referred out for an abortion because everyone has their limits. And this was surprising to me.

After having Rose, I've had numerous women come up to me and say, come up to me in tears to tell me that they aborted their babies, that they were pressured by genetic counselors, that they were pressured by grandparents and by their ops, because Down's Syndrome is not compatible with life, but I'm sure that not one of you can look Rose say hi, and think that she's not compatible with life.

In fact, she's the best part of our family and it, every one of my children and my husband would tell you the same. So, the other point that I was considering as I was listening to all this testimony is that many of these crisis pregnancy centers provide post-abortion counseling. And having just spent time with women who have aborted their children with genetic disorders, be it Down's Syndrome or something else, I know that they're suffering deeply. There is pain, they feel it every day. A woman I once spoke to said that she, every day for years visited an Instagram profile of a woman that had a child with Down's Syndrome because she was so -- her pain and her loss was so tremendous. And so, in censoring, the advertising options, the crisis pregnancy centers were also denying these women, the opportunity to heal from what many experience to be very painful.

And my last point, and I'm sure many of you are aware of this, but we're also at a point where we are in this environment with racial issues and tensions that are strong abortion impacts the African-American community much more than it does any other community. And so, we should also be considering that the African-American community is aborting in the inner cities, over 50% of their babies. I've heard of up to 74 to 84%. And so, 144 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

taking away the opportunity, they're not getting the message.

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: I'm sorry. You hit your three- minute mark, if you wouldn't mind trying to conclude.

ANNIE SCHRECK: Oh, sure. So clearly the message that planned Parenthood and abortion providers is sending them is not, they're not getting the same equal opportunity to consider all their options. Thank you. Sorry for the distraction.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Ms. Schreck. Thank you so much for your testimony, but more so thank you for sharing Rose with us. I think it's going to be the delight of my day. So, thank you for that. Hi Rose. You did a great job. Okay. Thank you so much. I don't see any questions. Kate Shemeth followed by Kate Suzio. Have a great day. We have Kate Shemeth. I see you there, but you're on mute. Take yourself off mute.

KATE SHEMETH: Yeah. I'm off mute.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Great. Go right ahead. Thank you.

KATE SHEMETH: First of all, I want to thank every Member of the Public Committee. I know this is an extreme labor of love that you do, and I know each one of you want to do an exceptional job. So, thank you so much. My name is Kate Shemeth and I'm a Connecticut licensed registered nurse for 30 years. I have served on the board of ABC Women's Center for four years, and I am in opposition to SB 835 for the following reasons. This Bill has been presented to you four years in a row, and you've seen my face before and you have rejected it because it's based on inaccurate and biased information.

Our son, Luke Shemeth is a lawyer who has worked for Connecticut-- assistant Attorney General Jeremy 145 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Perlman. When he was head of consumer protection. Jeremy Perlman is an expert. He's an instructor and a regular speaker on the Connecticut unfair trade practices act, which already prohibits unfair and deceptive advertising. Our son worked with this protective legislation and there is a clause for anonymous complaints and has voiced this Bill should not have come before the public health committee, but rather Connecticut consumer protection. And I know you've heard about this already extensively. Connecticut pregnancy resource centers that are affiliated with Care Net and this is important, already follow very strict guidelines to ensure that their websites and advertising materials state, that they do not perform or refer for abortions.

A study published recently in the journal of American physicians and surgeons of 987 women with a history of abortion revealed that 73.8% of those women said that they had not wanted an abortion, but experienced outside forms of pressure to terminate their pregnancies. And another study over 80% of women who had had an abortion said that, at the time of their abortion, they thought it was their only choice. And over 60% express that they had wished they had been educated on other options besides abortion, as well as given financial, social and emotional support, if they made the choice to continue their pregnancy. So, we're looking at greater choice notification and also implementation.

PRCs empower and care for women and men and educate them on all the choices available to them regarding their unplanned pregnancy and the ones under the care net umbrella also are very careful about their medical expertise and professional protection and how they operate in the medical umbrella. PRCs also support the freedom of these individuals to make their own decision. And there's no pressure. There's no, coerciveness, there's great respect for the women and men that come in and the services are free of charge. That's important. It's also something to take note of that. The care that is 146 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

offered is extended most often for a few years after the baby is born in the way of parental support, which has been, this is very different than planned Parenthood in education, free baby clothes, supplies, and ongoing.

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Excuse me--

KATE SHEMETH: I'm almost done. This Bill, which violates the free speech could also start Connecticut down the path of very costly litigation. And in 2009, the city of Baltimore passed a similar Bill to SB 835 regarding exact terminology, deceptive advertising, and was sued by a Baltimore PRC. The city of Baltimore lost the case. And in September of 2018 was ordered to pay 1.1 million to the pregnancy center. After a federal court ruled that the city law violated the center's First Amendment rights. Respectfully, I ask that you reject SB 835.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much for your testimony. I don't see any questions. So, have a great day. Thank you so much for being here.

KATE SHEMETH: Thank you so much.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have Kate Suzio followed by Nina Khamarji.

KATE SUZIO: Yes. Thank you very much. Can you hear me?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I can hear you're not on screen, but I can hear you. So, go right ahead.

KATE SUZIO: I urge you to oppose Senate Bill 835. For over 35 years, I personally have volunteered at and am now a director at a busy crisis pregnancy center in my community, along with 20 other dedicated and long serving volunteers. Therefore, I 147 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

look from the inside perspective of years of service at my center, which is one actually of 24 here in the state of Connecticut. The mission shared by all is simple, free caring non-judgmental support for thousands of pregnant women and their babies over the last 40 to 50 years. Word of mouth from satisfied, empowered mothers is the primary advertisement that encourages over a hundred families every month to our center. It is not deceptive advertising that brings pregnant women to us for help. The language of the Bill presumes that defective advertising like crisis pregnancy centers is rampant presumes.

It's obvious to everyone, the first two and a half pages of the Bill out of four defines 11 words or phrases. None of these to note, none of these phrases are deceptive advertising or corrective action, no definition. So what lies would be identified and prosecuted by the Attorney General, no complaints or claims about services at pregnancy centers have been brought to the Attorney General or consumer protection department over the past 40 years. In fact, many respected social service agencies within the actually refer native clients to pregnancy centers for help throughout their pregnancies and beyond there's a back and forth of trust and referral. We get many, many referrals from the health-- the health clinic here in our community. And of course, crisis pregnancy centers.

As I said, refer many women back to these agencies and resources such as WIC community health center, food pantries, the housing authority, moms and their babies come to trust and depend on the crisis pregnancy center until the babies are two, three years old, we continue to follow the families. So, they may have as many as 30 office visits with us become very close through that time. So that is a huge support to the community. Where did the false claims of deceptive advertising originate? Obviously, this narrow unnecessary regulatory legislation against the free services offered, 148 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Sorry to interrupt you, you're approaching three minutes. If he would like to conclude

KATE SUZIO: It is based on a turf war by major abortion providers. So, it's paced on a turf war from NARAL, planned Parenthood, pro-choice Connecticut. They view pregnancy crisis centers as competition and as a threat to their market share. And there is no case history in Connecticut of fake advertising over decades of service by dedicated pregnancy centers, to many, many thousand families. Heard cases? In fact, no cases make bad law, the public health committee, the legislators, the Attorney General all face huge responsibilities, this legislative session, for instance, the huge burden

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I'm going to have to stop-- I'm going to have to stop you there. If you want to wrap up.

KATE SUZIO: These overwhelming issues that we have in our state between COVID, the budget. They certainly overshadow the fake claim of deceptive advertising crisis pregnancy centers here in Connecticut, freely contribute so much to the health, welfare and future of thousands of moms and their babies. And I thank you for this chance to testify.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Hold on there are some questions. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Good afternoon. And thank you for your testimony. A couple of questions. Can you just confirm, I think what you were saying is you work hand in hand with local clinics, they refer individuals to you? And can I make the assumption that you refer them back as well for providing medical care when needed? 149 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

KATE SUZIO: For sure. The community health clinics. And I think there are 12 in kinetic, very well-respected and fortunate. We have one in our community. They refer women sometimes primarily to get a pregnancy test free at our clinic. And this way it saves the woman money she's already been plugged into their medical care. And we certainly send her back many resources we can corral for her, but there are many that they also help out with to get her on WIC, to basically if she has housing issues, job issues, whatever the issues are, we refer to the appropriate solutions for her. And it's not only the health clinic, it's the health department. And that basically refer women because we do help out for those that fall through the cracks on insurance. We do help out with the cost of ultrasounds. Every pregnant woman gets at least two ultrasounds and we pay a hundred dollars for each time she has to go for an ultrasound. So that's a huge help. There are certainly again, many, many resources that trust us enough to send the women to us and vice versa, many resources. So, it's really a tapestry of back and forth supporting a needy woman in crisis who really may not know how to negotiate the systems.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you, Kate. Another question, you mentioned that there was about 12 health clinics across the state and you work with several resources and you're I'm assuming your Lake local health department, have any of those agencies or resources or groups complained about deceptive advertising or called with any kind of complaint at all that you're aware of?

KATE SUZIO: Never. It's never come over the radar. In fact, just to show how trusted we are in the community, the community health-- the community health clinic actually has allowed us for years to document our pregnancy tests and the results and send it on a letterhead from our organization. And that serves as proof of pregnancy because for a 150 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

woman to get many resources, she has to prove she's pregnant. And again, because they can't afford to pay for the pregnancy test, they are coming to us getting plugged in for their support and taking back the letterhead, which is respected as a proof of pregnancy. And that's a very important trust relationship.

There was one issue I was just going to mention briefly, because it seemed like it didn't come up that much, but the whole white coat question, it seems kind of a silly question, but I would just be happy to document which our clinic group actually goes by the bylaws. Any group would have bylaws and for 40 years, it is spelled out that it is recommended that you wear a white coat when you do a pregnancy test and it could be simply for the cleansing-- the cleanliness issue, it could be for body fluid because you're dealing with urine. It could be just to keep the gal’s clothes clean, but we do respect that in our bylaws. And so that really takes the white coat out of that silly you're pretending to be a professional.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you, Kate. I know I'm a nurse and I've worked in various settings throughout my career. And oftentimes the staff and sometimes the secretaries and the individuals that do filing enjoy wearing scrubs or a lab coat, just because of some of the reasons you've just mentioned, whether it protects their own clothing or whether it just eliminates the need for them to have a full wardrobe to go to work. And I don't know, we've never, I've never really investigated why, but it's definitely common practice. Even when I worked in the hospital, it was the same. So, thank you for bringing that up and I thank you for your testimony today.

KATE SUZIO: Thank you very much.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Are you, are you done Representative? 151 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Yes. I'm sorry. I'm done.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Representative Gilchrest.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ms. Suzio for testifying today. I do want to state that we do have accounts of deceptive speech and advertising practices here in the state, including from an emergency room physician who spoke to the deceptive speech of Hartford based crisis pregnancy center. In your remarks, you mentioned that, well, I want to get this right. Were you saying that you think the true intent of this Bill is because planned Parenthood's and other women's reproductive health clinics are in competition with crisis pregnancy centers and that this is a matter of dollars versus the concern for women's health?

KATE SUZIO: It's certainly one of the layers, I would say because undoubtedly, who is it planned Parenthood and other clinics are looking for? They're looking for pregnant women. Who is it that comes to us? Pregnant women. And it's often for the first guidance and they quite well know the law of the land and the tapestry of where they can call a go for an abortion. They're often coming to us because they're really sitting on a cliff and not sure what to do so that we do a lot of hand holding. We really review in a very trusting and honest and transparent way what their options are because they're seeing a lot of stumbling blocks, all of which seem as big as Mount Everest. And so that we're just breaking down for them to deal with which step to take and when, and how to take it. So that it's all very, very straightforward and honest.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Well, I would disagree with you because planned Parenthood does offer a host of services, including birth control, STI testing services for men and women, including abortion services. I think there's room for all of these 152 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

programs so long as women aren't being deceived. And to your point about us as legislators needing to focus on other more pressing issues, I am of the belief that we can focus on multiple things at the same time, but certainly in a pandemic, I think ensuring that women and men have access to the most comprehensive health care possible is incredibly important at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Representative. I don't see other, any other hands up. So, thank you so much Ms. Suzio for your time today.

KATE SUZIO: I appreciate your time, Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have Nina Khamarji followed by Madelyn Novick.

NINA KHAMARJI: Hello, distinguished members of the council. Can you hear me all right?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): We can go right ahead.

NINA KHAMARJI: Awesome. My name is Nina Khamarji from Trumbull Connecticut. I received my bachelor of science in nursing from Fairfield university. I also have a bachelor's of science in biology with a minor in psychology. I am a labor and delivery nurse at Yale New Haven hospital. And I am also the center director of Heartland pregnancy center in Bridgeport, Connecticut, and I am in strong opposition to SB 835. I did submit written testimony addressing the demerits of this specific Bill, but I feel that my time today is better spent addressing blatant lies that have been repeated in regards to pregnancy centers and what we do and to replace those lies with truth.

I've heard several times that pregnancy resource centers are unlicensed, unregulated and are not real health clinics. So, to start off Hopeline does hold 153 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

a CLIA waiver, which allows us to perform waive tests such as pregnancy tests. Our specific CLIA waiver denotes us as a community clinic, or we do not call ourselves a clinic in our name or literature, we are recognized as a community clinic by the state of Connecticut. We are also covered by the license of our medical director, an OB/GYN, who is licensed in the state of Connecticut and is in good standing and is actively practicing medicine. He reviews and interprets all of our ultrasounds, which are performed by RDMS certified sonographers. Additionally, we are affiliated with a larger national organization that provides specific standards and regulations that we must abide by. Such standards include our commitment of care. We are bound by these standards and take them very seriously. I would encourage you to ask me more about these. Lastly, anyone performing a medical service in our centers is also licensed and regulated by their specific licensing board.

Each of these licensing boards dictate with what a medical professional can and cannot do within their scope of practice. I believe that shows that we are truly regulated, licensed, and qualified to offer the medical services that we provide. Another lie is that we do not discuss all the women's pregnancy related options with her at her appointment. At Hope when we discuss all three pregnancy options with our patients, parenting abortion and adoption, we always ask that the patient, we always ask the patient for our permission before we provide any information. If a woman says that she has not interested in a specific option, we do not talk about it. For example, if a woman comes in and is only looking for information about abortion, we only discuss abortion with her in a factual and an inflammatory way. No one here believes that it is right or a guide for women to be lied to or deceived.

What we are saying is that this is a poorly written Bill and should not be added to Connecticut state 154 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

legislation. It is hard not to feel that pregnancy centers are being punished for not offering a service that we do not believe in. I am proud that we do not offer abortion. I am proud that we offer accurate medical information about all the women's pregnancy related options. I am proud that we offer

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Excuse me, you've reached three- minute mark, if you won't mind concluding your remarks.

NINA KHAMARJI: I'm almost done, yep, I' almost done thank you. I'm empowered and capable to choose life for her unborn child. I am proud of the offer some semblance of healing for women who've had abortions all at no cost. We do not need to lie to women to come into our office, they genuinely want our services and seek us out. They refer us to their friends, sisters, and daughters, and they come back to us for subsequent pregnancies. We have invited members of the public health committee and anyone else listening to this public hearing to come in to our offices several times, and the offer still stands. Please come and see what we do for our communities. Thank you for your time and for everything you do for Connecticut, please vote no to SB 835. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you for your testimony. I'm just curious, I'm new to this committee. And you said you've offered many times for individuals to come in and look at your centers and see what you do. Has anybody ever taken you up on that?

NINA KHAMARJI: No, I'm not on the public health committee at least. So, we would love for you guys to come in and see what we do. We would love to give you copies of our literature, copies of our limitation of services, which explains what we do. 155 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

And don't offer up to walk you through our website. We would just love for you to see firsthand what's going on. And it always impresses me that even the writers of the Bill and the co-sponsors of this Bill do not have firsthand knowledge of what pregnancy centers actually do. So, to my knowledge, so we would love for them to also come in tour.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): And thank you for that. And are you aware of any complaints that have been filed with any of the pregnancy centers that you are familiar with or deceptive advertising?

NINA KHAMARJI: Not to my knowledge. No.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. And you said that when individuals come in, you talk to them about parenting abortion and adoption. Is that standard practice that you're aware of throughout the public centers?

NINA KHAMARJI: Yeah. So, we're a part of an affiliation called the Connecticut pregnancy care coalition. And I believe, I believe there are 11 centers that are part of that, and that is very much their practice for all of those centers who are under that umbrella.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So that'd be 12 of the 25 that you know of would have that

NINA KHAMARJI: Yeah.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Standard of practice.

NINA KHAMARJI: Yeah. And I can't speak to the other ones from my knowledge, I've done as far as research and looking at their websites, that's also the standard practice, but the Connecticut pregnancy care coalition gives us a certain level of more standards on top of everything that I talked about in my testimony that we have to abide by.

156 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. I appreciate your testimony. Thank you. And I'm done.

NINA KHAMARJI: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you Representative Dauphinais. Thank you so much. I don't see any other questions. So, have a great day and thank you for being here.

NINA KHAMARJI: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next, we have Madelyn Novick followed by Luther Weeks. Madelyn, are you with us? Madelyn? Well, we will move on to Luther Weeks and we'll come back to you Madelyn if we can get you on the line. So, Luther Weeks, if you're ready, you are muted.

LUTHER WEEKS: There we go. Chairs and Members of the Committee, my name's Luther Weeks testifying for this for secular Connecticut. We represent the interest of the 42% of a Connecticut voters that are non-religious. Our positions are based on the US constitution guarantee of separation of church and state along with humanist values guided by science and religion. Now, let me pause here. The original version of my testimony had a somewhat embarrassing mistype. So, I've submitted corrected testimony. So, I'll guarantee you we're guided by science and reason. Secular Connecticut supports SB 835.

We know that the Bill does not mention religion and applaud that applies equally to all. All consumers should expect entities with names like clinic, hospital, or pregnancy center, et cetera, should clearly identify when they do not provide comprehensive service or advice based on science, including commonly accepted medical practice. Such facilities that instead provide limited advice, limited service or any advice or service based on non-standard not accepted medical practice should be properly labeled and advertised as such so that the 157 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

public can tell the difference between their service and a science-based comprehensive service. This is similar to the ways we limit advertising and insurance claims for non-medically approved, tested pills, potions treatments, and procedures.

Pregnant women under the stress of their situation, especially those without the means to pay are particularly vulnerable to confusion between such a facility in a medically based facility. No entity, medical, or otherwise needs to provide every treatment. It all such facilities, advertising advice should clearly identify any limits on options they will discuss and any treatments from which they will not provide information or not offer referrals. No entities should be permitted to provide misleading advertising that incorrectly leaves the impression that it is staffed by medical professions or offering comprehensive medical advice or tests, when they do.

Facilities should clearly inform the public the level of medical professionals that are available onsite and the qualification of anyone who counsels gives advice, tests, or treats them. Section 2 could be strengthened to clearly limit, prohibit and penalize inappropriate in person solicitation outside the facility where staff or volunteers often approach individuals using false information and intimidation. And I think, and when somebody testified earlier, I mean, that should apply to whoever's doing that. That it's necessarily the responsibility of a facility to prevent that. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you for your testimony. I appreciate it. Representative Steinberg.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for your testimony today. I have simple one question for you. If a pregnancy center does not have misleading advertising, do you have any 158 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

problem with them providing their services to members of the community?

LUTHER WEEKS: As long as, you know, they, you know, clearly identify when someone walks in that, you know, we don't provide counseling on all services. We will not refer you for some services, whatever they might be. And just so it's clear to the person that they're, you know, not a comprehensive medical facility, if that's the case you know, but certainly if, as long as they do things and it's clear to people coming in you know, that's certainly fine, as far as I'm concerned.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for that. So basically, all the really good pregnancy centers out there that are abiding by the law and not misleading people you're fine with?

LUTHER WEEKS: Yes, as long as the, you know, the, something like this law. Whether they abide by this now or they need this. Some others may need this law to abide by it.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for your testimony. Thank you, Madam Chair.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Representative. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, thank you for your testimony. I have a few questions. Can you, do you know why a pregnancy center would not refer or perform an abortion?

LUTHER WEEKS: No, I do not. But I do know some facilities-- have some facilities that do not refer uncertain medical things. So, you know, I couch my testimony really to cover all medical subs facilities, not just the pregnancy centers in this Bill. You know,

159 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, it's my understanding from the testimonies that have given been given prior to yours, that they do go over the three options with regard to pregnancy which includes abortion. And they don't perform abortions because it's their religious belief that is that is the reason why would you agree with that?

LUTHER WEEKS: Oh, sure. You now, and I know doctors don't perform these many procedures, which they're not qualified for, or they feel there's someone else that could do them better. The concern I have is to is also that when they counsel on abortion, that the counseling, that given the advice about abortion is medically approved and they don't claim any dangers of abortion that are not medically normally you know, understood. And yeah.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, you don't believe that their religious belief is being encroached upon by the state with regard to this?

LUTHER WEEKS: This Bill? No, I don't believe so. We are as an organization, favor of freedom from religion, but just as importantly, freedom of religion you know, your beliefs freedom stop when they encroach on you know, my freedoms or on you know, people getting accurate medical information. It's certainly okay. For them not to perform procedures that they don't agree with.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, what specifically is there deceptive advertising that you speak of?

LUTHER WEEKS: And so, you know, I have-- there's other people that are on our email list have submitted testimony today. They have some experience related to this. I'm not going to say who it is because they did not mention our group in their testimony. And you know, there is information on certain facilities that don't provide complete information or deceptive. I'm aware of hospitals that say they provide comprehensive women's health 160 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

care, but they actually don't. If you read down into their things they don't provide you know, all information available. I am not sure that to the extent that that applies to these clinics, I would hope you listened to the testimony of women that have actually had experience. I've never visited one,

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): But those hospitals haven't been included in this Bill.

LUTHER WEEKS: That's correct.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Do you think a family planning clinic should be required to post that they don't provide parenting classes or supply people with diapers or cribs?

LUTHER WEEKS: No, I don't think so because those are really not medical things. That's not, you know, comprehensive medical care. It's a nice thing that people do that, but that's, you know, not what I would consider, something that a clinic would do any kind of clinic.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): I haven't seen any language that says a pregnancy center provides comprehensive. I think that they, from what I've understood from all the reporting that they work hand in hand with community health clinics and agencies and the like, so I'm not, I'm kind of a little confused with your, with your comment with--

LUTHER WEEKS: I refer you to some of the, all the testimony today, not, not just mine but if something says pregnancy center, I would think that they would give comprehensive advice to people who are pregnant, that's medical advice and options and things like that, whatever additional counseling. Great.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, it sounds like they do include that in their treatment plan with regard 161 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

to coordinating with local agencies in and around the area with, for those services.

LUTHER WEEKS: Certainly, some of them do you know, that's great if they do

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, you're making the claim. So, I'm just wondering if you could give me specifics, which center is not.

LUTHER WEEKS: Like I said, we have some people that are on our email list and, you know, other people that are member of our sister organizations that have such concerns and there's testimony here from some of them.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, your claim is just hearsay and

LUTHER WEEKS: Well I'm representing an organization and you know, we represent what our members want to have a say, and I'm not claiming which organizations do this. So sure.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): But you're making the claim that some do. And I guess I'm looking for some factual information. You're making the claim and I'm just looking to understand which ones or specifically,

LUTHER WEEKS: I refer you to other people that are testifying today, and people who have testified in past years. I don't have, if I claimed it here, it would be hearsay.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Yes. I think, I guess hearsay. Well, thank you for your testimony and I'm done.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you Representative. Earlier today, someone testified and said that a business wouldn't advertise what they don't do. And I think that fits to what you're 162 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

talking about. I've been thinking about that a good time today and thinking that will actually, people do advertise what they don't do, because they wouldn't want to waste their time, having people come in expecting a service that they don't provide- -

LUTHER WEEKS: When I go to my doctor or a dentist? They will consider all surfaces, but a lot of times they refer me to a specialist.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Right--

LUTHER WEEKS: The one specialist who get referred to a different specialist in that same field. That's the kind of thing. I think we're talking about that's a big sign. We-- by the way, we do not, you know, counsel on abortion. We do not believe in abortion you know, right in the front or some way that people knew right away, you were interested in that, you know.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Some, some people on their sites who have testified today do put seeking an alternative to abortion right on their site. And so, there are people who are doing that and doing a great job of it and providing great services, but there are other places where it becomes more questionable. So, thank you for your testimony Mr. Weeks.

LUTHER WEEKS: You're welcome.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have, well, I'm going to try Madelyn Novick again, Madelyn, if you're able to get on. I know you're, I think you're on a telephone. So, give me a moment. You might need to press pound six or pound nine on your phone.

BEVERLEY HENRY: It's star six.

163 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Oh, star six. Thank you. Thank you. Madam administrator star six. You can try that. Madelyn Novick. Okay. I'm going to have to move on. Hopefully we can get you on though. Next, we have Iyanna Liles.

IYANNA LILES: Good afternoon. How are you all

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Good. Thank you for being here. Go right ahead.

IYANNA LILES: Well, good afternoon distinguished members of the public health committee, as well as Senator Abrams and Representative Steinberg. My name is Dr. Iyanna Liles, and I'm a licensed obstetrician and gynecologist at Saint Francis hospital. And I'm here representing the Connecticut chapter of the American college of obstetrics and gynecology ACOG as well as the Connecticut state medical society. ACOG is our specialties, premier professional organization, and the Connecticut chapter represents over 935 OB/GYN and partners in women's healthcare across our state. The Connecticut state medical society represents more than 7,000 physicians across the various medical and surgical specialties. I appreciate the opportunity again, to provide strong support for SB 835, ACOG's position, unequivocally calls for the elimination of all barriers to the provision of abortion, including those posed by these facilities. SB 835 will help protect women from deceptive practices that insult their dignity and impede their access to time sensitive reproductive health care services. As a woman's health care physician and advocate, my priority is to ensure patients are provided comprehensive, unbiased healthcare, including reproductive health, as well as to empower them to make informed healthcare decisions.

I would like to share one of my patient's stories demonstrating the negative effects of these facilities, deceptive practices, and this was not a secret shopper patient. Mary had become pregnant, 164 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

was scared and didn't know her options. So, she decided to seek the medical advice of a local reproductive health clinic that was in close proximity to a limited service pregnancy center while attempting to enter the reproductive health clinic as intended. She was intercepted by misleading advertisements and pressure from the workers in the area, and ultimately was ushered into the pregnancy crisis. Once in the facility, she was further pressured to continue her pregnancy while no other options were discussed. And she ultimately left more confused than when she arrived and ended in my care.

Mary and I talked about all her options, including termination adoption and parenting. And she ultimately made an informed decision that she felt was in her best interest. To me, patients deserve complete and accurate information about all their options so they can make informed decisions. Thus, it is important that clear and honest advertising of services is the standard practice for all facilities, especially if healthcare services are provided. Again, this Bill is about transparency and honesty in advertising. I am concerned for women and families and my community without this legislation in place.

Since this legislation was introduced years ago, I have noticed more honest and clear online advertisement from some of these pregnancies. And this is great. However, this is not uniform practice and more reason why we need permanent legislation in place to hold businesses accountable. Additionally, I want to reiterate and clear up confusion that even though there may be limited complaints against these facilities, problem can and does still exists. Pregnancy decisions are very personal and sometimes patients may defer reporting deceptive practices due to concerns over their own safety or fear for reprisal.

165 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for your testimony. You've heard perhaps you've heard some of the testimony that proceeded yours and several have stated that there are not a lot of complaints on record with the department of consumer protection. Can, do you have any, and again, what we're trying to avoid her as hearsay, do you have any firsthand knowledge of circumstances whether reported or not that gave you cause for concern?

IYANNA LILES: Well, I think my testimony of patient care is firsthand knowledge. I don't think that I would consider that hearsay as all of you who have doctors have gone to you provide very sensitive and private information to your physician. So, I would consider anything a physician reports as firsthand knowledge. As far as the patients are making complaints, they're not, that's not a detail that I particularly know a lot of times when patients are presenting for care, especially if they don't come back for various reasons. We don't know what they're reporting is or is not. So, I am not aware of what has been reported to state agencies.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you. I'm sorry. I actually did not intend to involve you with anything that would violate HIPAA. But I was saying, are you at least aware of circumstances? And I think you did in your testimony that give you concern about the information that was provided without revealing anybody's specific. But obviously if you feel strongly about this even though you may not be party to any legal process of complaints I was wondering if you could comment on your experience with people that made you concerned because of the information they were given.

IYANNA LILES: So, this particular patient, I was only because pregnancy is a very sensitive issue. And especially as someone alluded to earlier, we know that almost 50% of pregnancies are unplanned and when you don't have a plan for it and you're scared and don't know what your options are, it can 166 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

be very scary. And so, I was concerned when this patient came to me, not sure about what our options were, didn't, wasn't sure what happened to her. It was alarming and unfortunate, especially because what she intended to do was not what she ended up actually happening.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): I'm sorry, just to make sure I understand that last sentence, you said again with what, for one thing, but I'll let you answer go ahead.

IYANNA LILES: She intended to go to a reproductive health clinic to get medical advice on all her options. And instead she was actually ushered into one of these pregnancy centers where all the options were not discussed.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Well, I'll stop asking you questions. I hope that's how your beeper Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, Liles. Thank you for your testimony. I just wondered, did you, was that one incident that was reported to you with regard to that pregnancy center and lack of information given out?

IYANNA LILES: No, that was not, that's just the one I think is one of the most pertinent and most of the details that I can definitely remember, but there have been other instances of patients who have come in seeking advice and wandered in and didn't realize that they had actually ended up in the center and it was not the reproductive health clinic that they intended.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Oh, didn't realize that they were-- where they were,

IYANNA LILES: They were not aware because of the advertisement. And at that point there were people standing outside in the courtyard that were ushering 167 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

them into a different facility than the one that they intended to go into.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): You said in your written testimony, you had a patient who visited the pregnancy center and you said the pregnancy center was in close proximity to the reproductive health clinic. Do you think that it's deceptive to be located near reproductive clinic?

IYANNA LILES: Oh, absolutely not. Everybody has the right to be wherever they are. You just need to make sure that you have clear advertisement of your services so that there is not confusion about which center a patient intended to go into.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, if it said pregnancy center, what would you prefer it to say?

IYANNA LILES: I can say pregnancy center. It just needs to be clear when the patient either enters or somewhere associated with it, that they do not provide all of the options and that they're more focused on different alternatives to abortion, so to speak.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, report after report, we've been told that they are given that information once they are you know, in the process of being spoken to, with regard to their choices. So, can you be specific with who hasn't been? I mean, how many people are you saying haven't been actually told that?

IYANNA LILES: I think you're getting testimony, you know, this year. So, what I've noticed over the years is that there has been increased in online advertisement that they, the clear options of what a center offers and doesn't. So, in my specific instance with this patient, she wanted to know all three of her options and was not given all three of those options. And so that's the clear deception and advertisement that was displayed. 168 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So that's what she told you, right?

IYANNA LILES: Correct.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): That wasn't something that you have experienced yourself?

IYANNA LILES: No, but you know, as a healthcare provider, and I know you have shared things with your physician as well, I have to trust what a patient tells me.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): And so, have you, did you make any effort to make reports with regard to that or make a call to the clinic with your concerns?

IYANNA LILES: At that moment? I did not. And I also think that that will be breaking HIPAA. Remember as a physician, I am not allowed to report any patient information if a patient does not allow me.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. I mean, I have, you know, we've been told that materials that have been distributed to those individuals include those options. So, I'm just curious specifically, if that's the case, perhaps maybe you would have made a call and, you know, reached out to that clinic.

IYANNA LILES: Not necessarily if she wasn't given handwritten material, I don't believe she was

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Are physicians required to notify the state or agencies if they are aware of unprofessional conduct, are you doing

IYANNA LILES: I think from what I have looked up, it's, if there is a physician misconduct, I'd have to look into it. And if anybody else on the committee has that particular advice or that 169 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

particular statute, I would love to read it. But as far as I know, I am not aware of that.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Is there any way for you as a physician with, or without permission for your patient to notify the state or federal agency that something like this is occurring?

IYANNA LILES: I think you could do it on your own, but there's nothing that I'm aware of that requires us as a physician to do that.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, you felt no obligation to do that when you got information that you were concerned about?

IYANNA LILES: I felt it was my obligation to come to forums like this, where I can display my patient stories to let others know what is happening and then to help prevent it in the future.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Your testimony is an account of another account of what happened. Do you think it's possible that the reason the patient or another physician like yourself didn't try to contact anyone was that maybe this is not an actual case of deception and that it was just a person who was upset or dissatisfied with their encounter?

IYANNA LILES: Well, no. I think that that's just making assumptions and remember, we don't want to make assumptions in healthcare. So, I have to assume that what a patient has provided me is a true and accurate story. Like any patient encounter, any of us go to. And so, I would say that's an assumption and I will not mean that.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, and with all due respect, you just said, I'll have to assume. So, you did make an assumption, but thank you--

IYANNA LILES: Well that's standard medical care, actually. 170 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Thank you for your testimony and I'm done.

IYANNA LILES: Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. Representative Gilchrest followed by Senator Somers.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair and thank you, Dr. Liles for being here today and speaking in support of this proposal throughout the day we've been hearing from opponents that we haven't had any records of this behavior taking place in the state of Connecticut, even though I would argue we have. And I just appreciate you coming and sharing an account of an interaction with a patient who not only had this negative experience of deceptive advertising, which led her into the wrong entity. But then didn't get the health outcome that she was seeking. And so, I am very grateful that you came today, not only representing yourself, but the American college of obstetricians and gynecologists and the Connecticut state medical society to stand up for the belief that women should have access to time-sensitive reproductive healthcare services. So, thank you very much for being.

IYANNA LILES: Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Sorry, I had a problem with good old mute button. Senator Somers followed by Senator Haskell.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Yes. thank you doctor for being here today and I remembered your testimony from a few years ago, so I went and pulled it. And it sounds like this patient Mary, that you had was from a few years ago, and I'll read you the testimony. It says while attempting to enter the reproductive health clinic as intended, she was intercepted by misleading advertisements and 171 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

pressure from CPC workers and ultimately, she was ushered into their building. So, I believe that this is the situation that we talked about a few years ago in which Hartford filed a lawsuit, because they wanted to put an ordinance. And because there was a pregnancy center that opened up close to or across from a planned Parenthood, is that correct? That's what this is referring to because that was been that particular case I think caused the folks in Hartford to try to Institute this ordinance, which was then settled and found to be against somebody's First Amendment rights. So, can you confirm that that's what this patient that you spoke to is about? Because that's what you wrote here in 2019?

IYANNA LILES: Well, I don't think that this case is the case that led to that ordinance specifically, I'm sure that there were multiple patient encounters. And so, I cannot comment on that. So, I think that might answer your question.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): But that is the same patient that you're referring to in this?

IYANNA LILES: I don't know -- this is the same patient. The patient in this testimony is the same patient in 2019, but I don't know if you can make a causal link between that and the ordinance.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Right? This was brought up repeatedly during that test that hearing that, you know, because of this happening, because at that time they didn't want a pregnancy resource center to be near a planned Parenthood because people would go out and you know, try to talk to the person who was coming in. That's what we were told anyway. So.

IYANNA LILES: It was even beyond that she still didn't get the information that she needed. I understand that component and I can-- and that's what the outcome was. That's fine. The patient 172 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

ultimately still deserves the right to know about all of her options and that's not what she received.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Right. Even though she was right across from a planned Parenthood So--

IYANNA LILES: A reproductive health care center. Correct.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay. Reproductive healthcare center. So, I just want it to be clear on that. So, I appreciate your testimony and you know, it sounded familiar. So, I wanted to make sure we were talking about the same stories that keep coming up. But again, that was the part of the lawsuit or that action or that behavior was part of the lawsuit that ultimately was withdrawn from the city of Hartford and that we're going to be receiving the affidavits. That from what we've been told tonight from the mayor and I guess the attorney, they do not have any proof or any true reports of people being deceived. So, this is a tough spot for people to be in. So, I thank you for your time and your testimony.

IYANNA LILES: Right. And I understand it doesn't negate a patient encounter. II understand, but you know, that's, she still had this happen to her, whether she decided to report it or not.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Thank you.

IYANNA LILES: Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Senator. Senator Haskell followed by Representative Petit.

SENATOR HASKELL (26TH): Thank you so much Mr. Chairman, and Dr. Liles. It's great to see you. Thank you for being here to testify and I appreciate your advocacy. I just want to drill down on one sort of issue that you raise, correct me if I'm wrong, but you have no problem with crisis pregnancy 173 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

centers. They clearly advertise which services they do and don't provide. And you mentioned that some crisis pregnancy centers in Connecticut in reaction to previous legislative pushes during earlier sessions have actually changed their practices. So, while there may be some, is it your understanding that while there may be some crisis pregnancy centers that either always have, or are now acting in a way that provides a fully transparent information to their patients, this Bill seeks to address the bad actors, those who do not provide that fully transparent information, do I basically have that correct.

IYANNA LILES: That is my understanding and to make sure it's uniform across the board for these facilities.

SENATOR HASKELL (26TH): That's really helpful because we're hearing all day from folks who do really interesting work and feel that their jobs and their positions would be impacted when based on their testimony. It sounds as though they are providing fully accurate and transparent information to each and every patient who walks through their doors in my view, and I'm new to the committee, this legislation is focused on those bad actors. And I think that that's in line with what you're saying and what so unfortunately happened to one of your patients.

IYANNA LILES: Correct.

SENATOR HASKELL (26TH): Well, thank you very much, Dr. Liles. I learned a lot from your testimony. Appreciate your patience too. I know it's been a long day.

IYANNA LILES: That's great. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you Senator. Representative Petit followed by Representative Zupkus 174 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. PETIT (22ND): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll comment, one of the Committee Members that brought up the issue of the Connecticut state medical society. And I had met with them on several occasions before this session and talked about many issues and this had never been brought up. So, I checked with Dr. Aden, the legislative liaison on a couple of hours ago, and he says in regards to this Bill, we do not have formal policy on this issue, but it is a concern of the OB/GYN community and came up during a specialty society, legislative meeting. So that kind of gives the medical side is not completely unified and in a specific direction and talks David and other people at the society that they obviously don't approve of deceptive practices. But I think what's like their position on other issues. I think a term they use is engaged in neutrality because there's some division of opinion among the group. So, I just wanted to clarify that at least as far as my communications have been with the medical society. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

IYANNA LILES: And I did receive notice from them at least whoever their liaison is that signed on to be- - for allowing me to represent them today.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for that. Yes, I would imagine there's lack of unanimity in any organization. Representative Zupkus followed by Representative Dauphinais for the second time.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for coming today, doctor. I have a question. So, you've talked about the complaint you heard against the center. Have you had any complaint and I forget what you just said to Senator Somers what you called the planned Parenthood centers. Have you had any complaints against them?

IYANNA LILES: Against the planned Parenthood or the reproductive health care services?

175 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Reproductive healthcare services?

IYANNA LILES: No, not, not with this regard. No.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): do you believe though that every center should be held under the same Bill? So, I would find that I would think that there are some complaints against the reproductive healthcare centers. So, do you think that they should be held to the same standards and apply under this piece of legislation? Like the pregnancy centers are being held to?

IYANNA LILES: I think so. And I think that's part of the issue is that at the reproductive health care services, they are advertising what they are doing and being honest about what services are provided and not. And so, I think that if that's the case, then yes, they should be, which I think they're already doing this is just targeting a specific group that is making it, not clear to patients, what services they will get when they enter into a facility.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): But everybody should do that.

IYANNA LILES: Any business honestly.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Right. So, everybody should fall under this piece of legislation. I feel the same way. I agree with you. Do you know how many people that they serve, the reproductive healthcare services? How many do they serve; do you have any idea?

IYANNA LILES: No, I don't work for them, so I have no clue. I'm sorry.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): All right. Thank you.

IYANNA LILES: Thank you.

176 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you. Representative Dauphinais for the second time.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): All right. I'm sorry if I missed this, I apologize. But can you tell us, you know, where the individuals that gave you complaints, what specific pregnancy center they were referring to?

IYANNA LILES: This was the Hartford GYN center.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): The Hartford GYN.

IYANNA LILES: I am sorry, I don't remember the name of it because it's so similar. I can't the one that was in Hartford.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): It was just that center.

IYANNA LILES: That's where my interactions with patients were from primarily. Correct.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): And have you heard from any local agencies or had any interactions with anybody in the community with regards to similar complaints with them?

IYANNA LILES: I don't understand your question. What do you mean?

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, the centers have told us over and over again that they work with their community, local organizations, food pantries, health clinics, et cetera, et cetera. I wanted to know if you had heard from any of the other surrounding agencies or the, like that there were more complaints with regards to deceptive if you will, I guess, deceptive information?

IYANNA LILES: Not from those agencies specifically.

177 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Not any of them. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. And that's my last question thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you Representative. Are there any other questions, doctor, thank you for taking the time to testify today? We very much appreciate it. Next step I believe is number 28, Robin Brown followed by Anna Montalvo. Is Robin available?

ROBIN BROWN: Yes. Good afternoon. Can you see me?

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Please proceed.

ROBIN BROWN: Okay. Well thank you very much. Good afternoon, distinguished members of the public health committee. It's my honor to testify today. Thank you for the opportunity. As I said, my name is Robin Brown. I have a bachelor's degree in nursing. I'm an RN, I'm the medical service manager of ABC Women's Center in Middletown, Connecticut. And I'm in speaking in opposition to SB 835. There is no need for SB 835. I have-- there have been zero claims from any pregnancy center client claiming to have been misled by our advertising. The state has not identified even one legitimate person who suffered any of the harms that SB 835 purports to protect against.

All members of the pregnancy coalition have websites that clearly state they do not perform or refer for abortions and explains why and how their services are beneficial to those considering abortion. Our pregnancy centers have always upheld the highest standards of integrity and truthfulness with their clients in the public. Pregnancy centers provide competent, compassionate care to their clients for free. Women making pregnancy decisions should have a safe place to go that does not profit from any medical procedure resulting from that decision. Women are very smart. Those that walk through our 178 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

doors are happy. They did because they received love, support and services.

They need to make an informed decision regarding their pregnancies. Our customer satisfaction rate is 99% based on client, exit surveys, pregnancy centers do good. And at all our savings for the state's taxpayers, even if a woman chooses abortion, we are still here for her and we do not make a profit off of her. All the legislative members have an open invitation to visit any of our pregnancy centers and see the great work that they do for the citizens of Connecticut. I've been pleading for this being the fourth year that people would come, that Representatives would come even NARAL would come. Our doors are open.

We have nothing to hide. SB 835 violates basic fairness under the law pregnancy centers have been maliciously targeted by this legislation for political gain. It invents a new category called quote limited services pregnancy center, unquote in defines that as a pregnancy services center that does not provide referrals to clients’ abortions or emergency contraception. This completely and unfairly exempt centers that provide or refer these services targeting only those who are life- affirming. SB 835 engages in viewpoint discrimination. There are no objective parameters for determining what must be excluded or included in a given advertisement to avoid being accused--

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Excuse me, you've reached your three-minute mark.

ROBIN BROWN: Thank you. This is a recipe for opinion suppression, which is a direct violation of the First Amendment, the fines for up to $500 per violation, plus attorney fees and costs sends a chilling message to nonprofit pregnancy centers. SB 835 is totally unnecessary. Connecticut already has a false advertising law that could be utilized at pregnancy centers were they deceptively advertising. 179 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

And that, of course, as everyone knows, it's a [inaudible] which prohibits among other things unfair and deceptive advertising. So, in conclusion, SB 835 targets is small life affirming non-profits and is totally unnecessary. It's just a publicity stunt for those that oppose our life affirming values. And I want to thank you very much for the opportunity to come before you again, and it's with gratitude. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for your testimony. And I can assure you, this is not a publicity stunt Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, thank you for your testimony. My question is specific to we-- so far, if I can recall with all the testimony given today that there's only been one specific pregnancy center mentioned in terms of complaints. Do you think that by putting all of you in a bucket it's been damaging to your reputation you've obviously spoken very highly of your center and your interactions with the community and working closely with the health clinics nearby. Has that been damaging to all of you with the work that you do

ROBIN BROWN: Specifically? I don't think that, I think our clients, our patients that come in, we-- they are not familiar with this legislation against us. They willingly come in, they see our website where it specifically tells them that we do not-- what we do and what we do not do. That we do not do abortions here. We are a pregnancy resource center. We're not a family planning clinic. So, by virtue of the definition their clarity needs to be made. And so there may be different individuals that don't come to see us, but that's fine because we have all the advertisement in our website.

If they choose to make a decision about going elsewhere, that's great, but we do have the truth on our website and we, as a matter of fact, articulate it. I had a possum, I had an in a very interesting 180 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

call from a client today, a patient who was interested in coming in and wanted to make a pregnancy appointment with us. And she articulated right up front that she actually didn't want to terminate the pregnancy, interesting that this would happen today. So, I articulated with her, I said, before we set up this appointment for you, I just want to be really upfront. And I want to communicate to you. Did you see our website? And she said, yes, I did see your website. So, I said by virtue of you being a good consumer, you saw the website, but you're considering you're coming to us.

How best can we help you? So, case in point, absolutely amazingly that happened this morning. And I was able to, right out in front is what we do. We do not refer or do abortions, but she still wanted to come. She wanted to get information. She wanted to potentially have a ultrasound if she qualifies. And I said, well, we welcome you. We just want you to know what we do.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, thank you for all that you do. I know it's, we're trying to drill drown down here to see some factual information with regard to specific pregnancy centers. And it's been very difficult. So, we appreciate what you're doing. And we're sorry that you've put in, been put in the bucket with the accusations, with regard to this Bill, but thank you. That's my-- I'm done.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you Representative. Representative Foster.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Good afternoon. Thank you so much for being here today. I have a couple of questions and I'm just going to, like, I always preface with, like, I know what I know. And then I know what I don't know. So, I've only been pregnant once my daughter was born at seven months. So, like I don't know what the last two months of pregnancy are like, I have no idea. So, I just throw that out there, but I only have one experience with being 181 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

pregnant. And so, what do you do in an ultrasound, in a non-medical setting? Can you help me understand that?

ROBIN BROWN: Well, go ahead. Are you finished?

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Well, that's my first question. Yeah.

ROBIN BROWN: By virtue of what you just said, we are a medical, we are a limited services medical center. We are under the auspices of Dr. Daniel O'Neil, who writes all our policies and procedures. So, we are under his auspices. We are a limited medical pregnancy center. What we do in an ultrasound is under his medical care, we perform early ultrasounds to confirm pregnancies, and then we launch our women if they choose whatever they choose, we just help them to make the best-informed decision with what they want to do. So, this enables them to see that ultrasound and to determine whether it's a within this baby has a heartbeat, whether this, what the age is. And so, yes, we, it's a false statement to say that we have an ultrasound and we're not medical we're limited medical. That would be the correct.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): So, in that, in that setting, is there a doctor on premises when the ultrasound is being conducted?

ROBIN BROWN: We have a RDMS who is licensed in the state of Connecticut by her RDMS organization. And no, the doctor is not onsite when she does the ultrasound. He doesn't have to be, he is always on call and he reads all the ultrasound reports and writes the ultrasound reports that I will call afterwards. I do a courtesy call and inform all our patients of what the report is and to see what they're going to do with their next steps.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Okay. I don't know what an RDMS is. I'm so sorry. 182 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

ROBIN BROWN: Registered diagnostic medical sonographer.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Okay.

ROBIN BROWN: Went to school for that,

REP. FOSTER (57TH): for like reading ultrasounds?

ROBIN BROWN: No, she performs them the doctors are the one that the-- only a doctor can read the report and he's the one that because it has to be a doctor that reads the report, not the, for conducts the ultrasound.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): So, someone -- and I'm sorry, like this is probably just naivety on my point. So someone sees the ultrasound technician -- I'm trying to like correlate it to the prenatal care I received, just so I can understand like what that is. So it's not really like prenatal care traditionally, because if there's something wrong on the ultrasound, like for example, placenta previa, and, you know, you might want to have modified care during your pregnancy to prevent preterm later or you know, placental damage during your pregnancy, which could result in, you know, like, you know, a baby coming too early and not being viable for if mom wanted to carry a baby to term, that care wouldn't be in real time, it would be like delayed. It's not like there's ever ultrasound read the ultrasound, consult with a GYN, like you would get a traditional GYN practice.

ROBIN BROWN: No, that's not true. So, the ultrasound would be done. I had an appointment and if the RDMS, because she's fully trained and authorized to see what she sees, let's say, for instance, this happened once in our past, we had a woman who has an experiencing an ectopic pregnancy. So, what we do by virtue of our policies and procedures is we would get to-- get her to the local 183 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

emergency center ASAP. And we would because it's life-threatening so yes, we do that. And we make that call based on what we see. She makes that call and we would also call the doctor. We would also give Dr. O’Neill an immediate call. So yes, it is taken care of immediately because to us, that patient is the most important person and we have to get her to care right away and if its life threatening.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Is your care interchangeable with having like an OB/GYN following your pregnancy

ROBIN BROWN: Interchangeable? I'm not--

REP. FOSTER (57TH): And equivalent medical care.

ROBIN BROWN: I'm sorry,

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Is it an equivalent care to me, for example, having my pregnancy being supervised under the auspice of a OB/GYN,

ROBIN BROWN: We might, you might consider us a pre- prenatal organization. So, we only do early pregnancy ultrasounds to confirm a pregnancy. And then based on what the patient wants, we either launch them into prenatal care. We have a whole list in our, at our pregnancy bag that we give them on doctors and in greater Middletown area. So, we will help them empower them to make a decision about where they go sometimes, very often it's community health center right here in Middletown. So, we will help them walk through this pregnancy and what their choices are, then that they have the ultrasound under their belt. They can go forward as either the pregnancy is confirmed or the pregnancy is not confirmed. And then we would help them in that as well.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): I guess. I guess I'm starting to see that like a delayed process that's potential in this, right? So, if you are confirming your 184 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

pregnancy, my first doctor's appointment, I, my daughter was planned. I knew when I was two weeks pregnant and my first doctor's appointment, I went straight there and they confirmed the pregnancy. So, I guess what I'm curious about is what is the benefit to a mother to start with you and then be referred? Like, what, what is the enhancement? And I am I like, I do want to be, just be totally clear. I love and adore car seat support. And it can't even like the cost of car seats is ridiculous diapers, support, formula support, for those who don't choose to breastfeed. Those things are so important. Those support services I'm in no way denigrating that important work. But I guess I'm just sort of trying to understand what the extra step before OB/GYN, why?

ROBIN BROWN: So, that is a great question. So, let me explain that for you. So, what happens when people, women choose to come here? They have early pregnancies may, maybe not sure what they want to do about their unexpected pregnancy. So, what we do is we make sure that they are not engaged in an OB practice at that point, that if they are, we would say, you know what we want the best for you. And you're already engaged with, with an OB/GYN that we would be glad to give you that you could become a parenting client with us.

But now these are women who are not sure necessarily, we have many, many women who don't have insurance yet. So, they come here, they have an early pregnancy, and by virtue of what we do with our policies and procedures, we able or able to give them the option to come for a pregnancy test, a free pregnancy test, or a free ultrasound, if they qualify. And then we launched them into prenatal care, we would never take away a woman's already relationship with their doctor. So, this is, we also have many, many women who have already chosen to carry their child to term, however, they don't have insurance or they've had prior experience with us having other children with us. 185 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

And they're like, you know, it's so great that I can get an ultrasound for free cause ultrasounds cost anywhere from 800 to a thousand dollars. So, they can come here and they can have that free. So yeah, so we do not, that's a very early pregnancy that we would, and they know all this because we inform them at our pregnancy tests and our ultrasound tests. Exactly what we do.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): So, it sounds like it's mostly pregnancy support. Like that's not accurate characterization of the work that you do as you support pregnancy.

ROBIN BROWN: I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Would that be an accurate characterization of your work to say that you support pregnancy, the experience of pregnancy?

ROBIN BROWN: Well, that's the parenting program downstairs. We do two different things. We have a medical service, which of I am the medical service manager, and then we have a parenting program downstairs. And on our first appointments everyone has made known that we do two different things. So, we look forward to what they're going to do. And we do not -- we let them know that we do not perform abortions for early pregnancies. We do not perform abortions at all.

So, what we do here is when women come in and we educate them as to they see on their website, what we do. But so many of them have already had a relationship with us as a pregnancy resource center, because of word of mouth, word of mouth is the number one referral method at ABC Women's Center. Google is number two.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): And I know like for moms like that pregnancy time and early childhood, and for me, 186 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

like my baby, like surprised me two months early. And I know that having a support network is so, so important. And so, it's, it sounds to me like, because you do that, you do a screening test, there's a doctor able to do some diagnostic work, but no response to the diagnostic care. And so, it's like a step of screening that you do. And then it's basically you just screen and intervene, right? Like we do in a school day setting to refer to medical care.

So, it sounds to me like a lot of the support and work that you're doing there is maybe in very many cases, and I'm sure Dr. Anwar and Dr. Petit would be much more informed on this than me, or maybe Anne Dauphinais is a nurse. I mean, you're probably better versed in this, but it sounds like a lot of the services you're doing then the GYN would likely replicate, right? Once they get into obstetric care. I know very often that that is the case that they want to know that they look at read and refer it the same way. So, is that true?

ROBIN BROWN: Not necessarily because we're doing very early ultrasounds, so they do not. When we refer out for OB if that's what the person chooses, that's what the woman chooses. They will not do another ultrasound till right around 17 or 18 weeks. So very often we end up sending them if they want it, usually they don't want it, but it's just, we do a confirmation of a pregnancy. So, we do not refer. We do not hold women up from going to an OB on contrary. We encourage them if that's their choice to go as soon as possible after they have a confirmation of pregnancy, which is usually around six weeks. So yeah, they-- there's no way that we are deferring or hindering them from getting OB care.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): And so, one of the things I imagine it's helpful in supporting prenatal, do you do things like help fund prenatal supplements and the things that like ensure a healthy pregnancy? 187 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

ROBIN BROWN: Yes, we do. We give out free prenatal vitamin.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Okay. Yeah. So, I, so what I find myself very curious about is it sounds like the work that you do is, should almost be called something different from this conversation. It sounds like I hear what I've heard very often from the center is similarly to the group that you recommend you are representing and other ones who that are similar to you? It sounds like because you feel like what you're doing is a crisis pregnancy center and other people feel like what you're talking about doing is prenatal care. And it sounds like, as you're saying, it's pre-prenatal care, it's not the actual prenatal care.

So, it, to me, I see where someone would feel like it's deceptive. And I also am totally seeing where you feel like there's no harm in the work that you're doing because you're providing an important resource to the community. So what I wonder is what you recommend as a way to sort of reconcile that that there might be if someone comes, because I think, you know, you're saying very early, early pregnancy, but I'm sure you've heard stories in the testimony today of many times where people have shared that they didn't know they were pregnant by the time they get to you, that is going to be a delay to the time that they can get an appointment somewhere else. If it takes them a little time to get with you. And then a little time to get into the care of someone else, we could be talking about a matter of significant delay.

And if someone doesn't know that they're pregnant at 18 weeks, they realize they come to you, there's a week or two suddenly in the time that it would take them to get in to another GYN practice, that would be a pretty substantial delay. And I am not in way shape or form saying that that would be intentional, but there could be a problem in that process. And 188 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

then I think two, always back to you, and this is again, I can only speak to my personal experience. My daughter's premature birth had lasting consequences, traumatizing experience for my whole family. And so, I imagined that if I spent more or less time under medical supervision versus pre- prenatal care, my experience might've been different. She might've come earlier.

That could have been worse. And so, I just, I think this has given me a lot to think about, so I really appreciate you engaging in this conversation because I think it's answered some questions that I have of why some people feel deceptive and some people don't. I think I I'm, I think I'm understanding that a little bit more now. So, thank you for answering my questions.

ROBIN BROWN: You're welcome I'd just like to say one other thing that you may see it as a delay in someone's health care, but we have women that come to us as they do not yet know what they want to do, so they want to sit down with someone and they want to talk about those options. And they want to see the ultrasound to see if it's confirmed because a pregnancy test is just a verification of a pregnancy. So then at that point, we'll come alongside them and say, you know, these are the OBS. And so, it's an early pregnancy. It is absolutely not a delay, but it would be helping them to find the best care for them going forward if that is their choice.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): And so, what I wonder though, then is what makes the, helping you find care better than them first, going to a full-service medic when they're sitting, you know, like for example, their ultrasound is right next to them, referred to the GYN. It, to me sounds like the perspective sorting and filtering their options might be different if they're talking directly to a medical professional versus folks who are in a limited service medical 189 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

capacity. So, so that's and I, I understand, so thank you so much for answering my questions.

ROBIN BROWN: You're welcome.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. Representative McCarty followed by Representative Kavros DeGraw.

REP. MCCARTY (38TH): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for your testimony today and for all the good work that you are doing. I'm going to just switch not so much on the provision of the services at your center, but I was intrigued by reading your testimony that you also do exit surveys. And could you just tell me from your center, have you received any complaints about your services that was there any complaint that there was any type of false advertising or deceptive advertising at your center?

ROBIN BROWN: We have never experienced a negative review. In my experience, I've been here for five years in this role, almost five years. It will be in April as the pregnancy resource as the nurse manager. But even before that, when I was a volunteer here to be perfectly honest, I think the only you could say negative thing that was said was that at that point, when I first was volunteering working here, we were not open on Fridays. So that was the only complaint was that, gee, we wish you were open more hours for all the good work you do. So, yeah,

REP. MCCARTY (38TH): Yeah, that answers very well. And if you look but do you know, and you may not have this answer, but are the exit surveys something that the pregnancy centers are doing throughout the state, or is this unique to your services?

ROBIN BROWN: No, it's not unique to us. As far as everyone in the coalition is doing them as well. It's a high standard of our services and we even, 190 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

it's amazing habit all organized now on iPads. So, we're trying to get rid of paper touching and I miss in this COVID season. So yeah, and then it's organized and it's great.

REP. MCCARTY (38TH): Right. And I think it's an important point to make, as we're discussing deceptive advertising or false advertising at the pregnancy centers. If we have tens and tens of thousands of women that have gone through the pregnancy center services, and there's really virtually no complaints documented. And if we have the exit surveys there, that's even giving more proof that there's not a, we don't really envision that there's a deceptive advertising going on. So, I thank you again. And if you look if I may just finish throughout the nation, I think 97% of the individuals using the services have not had complaints. So, thank you very much.

ROBIN BROWN: Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you Representative. Representative Kavros DeGraw followed by Representative Gilchrest.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): I think Representative Gilchrest may have been before me actually. So, I'm going to defer to her.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Are you yielding the floor, I don't think we have those kind of terms. Now we can have Representative Gilchrest go first followed by Representative Kavros DeGraw.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Representative. And thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you, Ms. Brown for being here today.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Ms. Brown for being here today. You work for ABC Women's Center, is that correct, in Middletown?

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ROBIN BROWN: Correct.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): So, your website used to have information about abortion pill reversal. It said, "What if I changed my mind after taking the abortion pill, it may not be too late." And then there was a link to a website about abortion pill reversal and a phone number to call. Abortion pill reversal is not accepted by the medical community and could actually be potentially dangerous for women. So, I would classify that as part of this deceptive advertising we're talking about and the misinformation, why did you all change your website?

ROBIN BROWN: As a matter of fact, it's still there.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): When I go to your website, I can't find that information. But if it is still there, then that's even more of a reason we need this legislation because this is the exact information. Those of us who support this legislation are speaking too that information is misleading. It's not factual and it could put women in harm. If you did remove it, it'd be interesting to know why you did that. And if it was a result of more eyes on the website, which is again, the intention of this policy, which is to just make sure that deceptive practices like that don't take place in the State of Connecticut. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. Representative Kavros DeGraw, followed by Representative Dauphinais.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Like Representative Foster, I have my own experiences. I am the mother of three children. And I guess my question is because I don't recall ever hearing of them during one of my pregnancies. What is early pregnancy? You keep referencing early pregnancy. What do you consider early pregnancy?

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ROBIN BROWN: Early pregnancy for us would be, you know, the first trimester is considered early pregnancy, and are why we do what we do is to assist women who may not know what their choice will be for them. Or as I said, we have many repeat customers here, which is amazing, and they just want to have that experience of being able to have a free ultrasound to have their boyfriends or their husband be with them at the ultrasound.

And what's very interesting that you bring up that in this COVID season, it's been so very, very difficult for women to get in to see their OBs. There's been such a backlog of women getting OB care that many of them have called us in this COVID season to say, "You know what? I can't get into to my OBs till, gosh, maybe a month from now. Would it be possible for me to come in and my husband or my boyfriend, my companion and have -- if I qualify for an ultrasound, could we do that?" And we're like, "Yes, we can do that." We would be glad to do that. And we would be glad to be here for you. Because it takes -- in this COVID season, to be honest, they have such a backlog. So, we're just able and willing to meet them at their need there.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Okay. So, I guess my question is, I remember like we did blood tests first and I'm dating myself maybe because I have a 20 year old, a 17 year old and 11 year old. But I remember my ultrasound was later on and it wasn't quite, you know, to confirm pregnancy. So, do you also do blood tests or do you primarily use the ultrasound as a confirmation?

ROBIN BROWN: Ultrasound. Yeah, you're correct. The ultrasound is the confirmation. And then as we launch women into prenatal care and they are RDMS who goes through this too, that it's your first pregnancy test appointment, not pregnancy tests. Your first OB appointment. Yeah. You will have a blood test. And these are the things that they're going to screen for. So, she gives them the 193 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

information for her next step, their next step into OB care if that's what their choices.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Okay. So, the blood tests and the ultrasound would be basically the same visit then

ROBIN BROWN: We don't do a blood test. The doctor, as I said, the OBs do the blood testing.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Okay. Yep. So are they on -- are the OBs on premises all the time?

ROBIN BROWN: We have -- the doctor that we work with, who oversees our service here, he's our medical director. He is not onsite, but he reads our ultrasounds and he also comes in from time to time to check that we're doing top level medical services, limited medical services. Yes.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Okay. I think I'm still confused, but I'm gonna let it go. I thank you so much for your time.

ROBIN BROWN: You're welcome.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. Representative Anne Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): HI, I just wanted to ask you if you could speak to the importance of discovering pregnancy early, as early, as possible as a nurse and, you know, with regard to the care of both, the mother and child proceeding in any way that they would see fit for themselves.

ROBIN BROWN: Yes. Yeah, that's a great question. So, yeah, the importance of having, when women come in, they're not sure that they're pregnant and they want to take a pregnancy test, and we want too if they would like, and qualify for an ultrasound to confirm the pregnancy. We want to get them into ultras -- We want to get them into prenatal care as 194 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

soon as possible. So that's what we do. We know the statistics, not only in State of Connecticut, but nationally is that, many women who are involved in prenatal care have poor outcomes for their child. And so, we emphasize after we confirm the pregnancy, depending on what their choices are to, and make them know the importance of getting into see a doctor as soon as possible.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): I thank you for that 'cause I know that over and over again, I keep hearing about delayed appointments and putting off and that sort of thing. And I know as a nurse the earlier the better that we can do the ultrasound, determine pregnancy, get the person, if she should so choose to continue the pregnancy on prenatal vitamins and other things that are helpful, so nutrition with program, et cetera. So, I'm assuming, and I'm making this assumption that your goal is to get them in quickly, get that ultrasound done and not delay the visit, correct?

ROBIN BROWN: Of course, yeah. We never have ever been accused of delaying anyone. Actually, again, by word of mouth and the clients that come in, they are very happy that we help them walk through. Sometimes it's very confusing how, you know, how to get the care that they need. They need insurance. And so very often, as a first step, we refer right away to community health center, where they have access to the health care representatives there and they sit down and do the concierge service and they can actually, as a matter of fact, they can be seen by access health care to get their insurance, and they can be seen the same day for prenatal care. That's the relationship we have with community health center.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. That's very helpful. I thank you for that. And that's all I have for questions.

195 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. Are there any other questions or comments, if not, thank you for your testimony and your patients today. We asked you a lot of questions. Next up is Anna Montalvo, followed by No. 30 Susan Baker. Anna, welcome.

ANNA MONTALVO: Hi, can you hear me?

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Yes, we can. Please continue.

ANNA MONTALVO: Okay. Perfect. So hi, hello, Members of the Committee. My name is Anna Montalvo. I am in opposition to SB 835. I am the Executive Director of ABC Women's Center. I always see all of the advertising for ABC. That includes our website, our written materials, and our social media. I just want to clear a few things on behalf of ABC seeing as a lot of, like Robin Brown or our nurse here at ABC had spoken on a lot of points. I just wanted to point out a few things.

So we have been accused of false advertising from NARAL on multiple occasions. There are a few that I would like to discuss today, seeing as it was sent to the Members of the Committee in a testimony. So if you look at this, Gustafson, I'm sure I pronounced that wrong and I apologize for that. She is a State Director of NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut. She mentioned multiple centers in her testimony. Today, I just want to address the statements against ABC Women's Center.

So, the first one I want to address is the client that she mentioned, Tara 21. Tara supposedly came here in 2015. She was 19 at the time. She paid us a visit because she believed that she was pregnant. The appointment ended with her having a negative pregnancy test. With the information provided in this testimony, it's enough for me to enter it into our database, where we keep track of all of our patient files. There was no client of the age of 19 196 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

that came to our center in 2015 with the negative pregnancy test. And I am more than willing to share proof of that, of course, following our HIPAA protocol.

Next thing, I would like to address that, which is again, included in her testimony our screenshots of our posts on Facebook. If you look in her testimony under the headline where it says examples of deceptive advertising on Facebook. It's a post that we did in May 27th of 2020. The post reads, ABC is now offering virtual appointments, "Give us a call today. Services available to you are pregnancy tests and ultrasounds, pregnancy support and options counseling, parenting support program, post-abortive support program and local referrals for adoption, housing, OB Care. Our services are free and confidential. Please give us a call." All of those statements are true, which is why we posted it on our Facebook page. But it's an example that they're saying that it's deceptive.

So again, I'm sure I'm gonna touch a lot of the areas that other people before me have touched is that deceptive is not being clear on what that is on the bill. So if the Attorney General finds that this is deceptive, and it includes all the sources that we have. There's nothing that is saying there that we do not offer it. Another one I wanted to touch was on the topic where it says, if you look below that, it says, "Google search results for abortion --

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: You're approaching the three- minute mark, if you could try to conclude your remarks.

ANNA MONTALVO: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So, yeah, to close, one of the reasons why I wanted to bring up these false advertisements is because it was stated earlier that if you follow the rules, that would not affect us. Firstly, that's not true. We've applied for a grant. And now we're in the 197 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

middle of a dispute with this decision on the grant because it was stated that we are practicing deceptive advertising and that there's a bill that is being presented due to this issue. So, this Bill hasn't even passed already and it's already being an issue for us. So, I asked you today, please don't vote SB 835. This bill can be very devastating to pregnancy centers as we don't have the financial means to be able to go through a court hearings since we rely on donors, on organizations, churches. We do not receive any funding from the government. So thank you for hearing me today.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for your testimony. Representative Gilchrist.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Miss Montalvo for your testimony. I just want to clear up that in the report that NARAL produced, they did change the names, so as to protect identity. And so that's where there'd be that discrepancy between anyone who may have been a client at your centering what was listed in the report.

But my question has to do with what I had just been speaking with the previous speaker about abortion reversal. So, I did actually, I was able to find that it is still listed on your website. And considering the policy that we are discussing today, says that any statement concerning any pregnancy- related service or provision that is deceptive, that's what we're speaking to.

And so, we're speaking to any pregnancy related service or provision that is deceptive. And according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, abortion reversal is not a thing. And so, do you all believe abortion reversal? Is something women can do? It's on your website. So, are you referring women for abortion reversal in the state of Connecticut?

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ANNA MONTALVO: Okay. So, really quick on the tier of client, I don't need a client's name to see whether or not they've been here. All I need is the age, the year and what they are in here for. To answer your question, so we're talking about progesterone. Progesterone is FDA approved. What hasn't gone through is what it's being used for. So I can –– well, what I'm gonna say is, so progesterone has been used in medical settings. I've used it for myself before to prevent the loss of a pregnancy. That's something that I went in. I made the decision. The doctor told me all the risks. This is coming from a doctor.

So here at the center, we do not refer clients to go into the reversal pill, which is progesterone. We do not tell them like, "Hey, if you've had an abortion, you change your mind. You can go ahead and do this." It's on websites for information only. And if you go into -- excuse me, one second. If you go into the link to which, if you click on the reversal pill, it's a link for Abortion Pill Rescue APR. They actually do provide multiple testimonies of women that have gone through the use of progesterone to continue the pregnancy. And it has been successful. Studies have shown that 64 to 68% success rate with progesterone in continued pregnancy. I hope I answered your question.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Well, it didn't because you keep saying -- we're talking about progesterone. We're not talking about progesterone. We're talking about a public policy that would prevent a limited service pregnancy centers from disseminating information to the public about pregnancy related services, that are deceptive.

And according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, which uses science to inform their work, abortion reversal is not a procedure. It is not something that women should be doing. It is not safe. It is not approved. And so, because going back to what the point of this 199 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

legislation is, your website currently says under abortion, want more information on abortion reversal and it links to a website and gives a phone number, which I would say is directly connected to the point of this legislation. And why do we need to pass this Bill to ensure that when women go onto sites like yours, they are given medically accurate information about their reproductive health care. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

ANNA MONTALVO: So, I don't get to respond to them.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): You certainly do get an opportunity to respond to that. Please proceed.

ANNA MONTALVO: Thank you. Well, she had stated that it's not about progesterone, but that is what the reversal pill is. It's progesterone. If you look into it, you can receive it either by orally, or as an intramuscular injection. So at the end of the day, it is progesterone and progesterone is FDA approved. It might not be approved for, like I said, for the reversal of a pregnancy. But it is used to continue a pregnancy because I was offered to it by my doctor. I didn't even know that you can use progesterone for that. My doctor told me that. And this is an MD. He doesn't work with a pregnancy center. It's a doctor that I visited. So, you know, I just wanted to point that out. So, it's on our website for information only. We respect to women that are smart enough to make an informed decision and that's all that we provide. Thank you for allowing me to respond to that.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Sure. If I could follow up with what's this doctor's name?

ANNA MONTALVO: Dr. Smith, he works out of the facility office in Farmington.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for that. I am concerned that that may be an indication of not 200 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

following his medical-- Representative Foster, followed by Senator Anwar.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Hi, thank you so much for answering the question. And this is a follow up to a question Representative Gilchrest read to you. So, I just did a quick lit search on progesterone as an antagonist to oral abortion pills. Just so I could understand this as a procedure. I had never heard of it before. It's a very enlightening public hearing. So, I just -- I'd like to read the results that were published in the Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology in a peer-reviewed randomized control trial. And you can tell me how you think that's consistent with your page. You can sort of interpret it and I'll allow -- I can send the PDF to the rest of the Members of the Committee.

We enrolled participants from February to July 2019 and stopped enrollment after 12 patients for safety concerns. First sentence tells us in a peer- reviewed journal in the result section. Mean gestational age was 52.5 days. Two, one per group, voluntarily discontinued three days after mifepristone ingestion for subjective symptoms nausea and vomiting, bleeding. Among the remaining 10 patients, five per group, gestational cardiac activity --

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): I'm sorry Representative, we are having some difficulty hearing you. You're gonna really have to face your microphone. And we're all gonna hear.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Okay. I'm so sorry. Hopefully this is better. I'm reading from another computer. But the gist of it is that they discontinued a peer reviewed randomized controlled trial study because of severe significant negative impacts on the mothers, which concluded after the third hemorrhage, which I don't know about any of you, but I know that that is one of the most horrific experiences any of my friends have had in their pregnancies. 201 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

And so, I'm just -- I'm curious if that is what you are recommending people as a resource, why?

ANNA MONTALVO: Okay. Thank you for actually bringing up that study because I want to point out a few things about that study that the media doesn't always share. So just a few points is that twice as many patients who had the progesterone had continued their pregnancy, and twice as many patients transported by ambulance for bleeding took the placebo, not the progesterone. So a lot of the bleeding and the hemorrhage was not so much caused by the progesterone. It was caused by the placebo. And a lot of it was because they were going through an abortion. So, because they were going through their abortion, one of the side effects that could be is the hemorrhage.

And there was one patient in the study and I can send you the link to it. So, you can read more into it. One of the patients that we see the projectile that had heavy bleeding, she was transported to the ER. They did a full examination on her. She had no decidual sac or any signs that she was still pregnant and after that she didn't receive any follow-up care because she was fine afterwards.

So, I know that this has been brought up before that, you know, why would you give information on the reversal pill if it can have such severe effects on a woman? But the thing is that the study that is being shared, it's a little biased because the study was written by people that were performing the abortion from an outside person, like a third party person that wasn't involved in either side of things.

And truth was that a lot of the hemorrhaging were from patients that didn't receive the progesterone. So, I just wanted to make that clear. So, it's not that -- it's not that we're giving information as something that can be dangerous to women. We're 202 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

giving information as something that can -- it's progesterone, again, it's progesterone, that's been FDA approved and we're giving women information, which doctors, not just the one I mentioned, multiple doctors are using to be able to continue a pregnancy if a patient received the -- is it -- so RU-486 has two steps. You take one pill. Once you take that pill, you have 24 to 72 hours to be able to receive progesterone to continue the pregnancy and be able to fall within that 68% success rate.

If you take the progesterone within that time, then it's safe enough to say that you can continue the pregnancy and it's been proven time after time that it does work.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): I'm sorry, if you don't mind.

ANNA MONTALVO: No, that's okay.

REP. PHIPPS (100TH): So, any good science and I will -- I will say any speaker says this, so please go. It's not just you. And the goal of any scientific study is never to prove. So no scientific research that you share will ever say that anything was proven. It's always to confirm or reject a hypothesis. So that's -- so it is not proven. It is also from my understanding and again, like I have to defer to Dr. Petit or Dr. Anwar or the nurses on the call here, but it's my understanding that you're recommending an off-label use for a medication. Is that correct?

ANNA MONTALVO: We don't recommend that. We just provide information. We're not -- we don't recommend to anyone that caused it. We don't recommend that. We said, well, if you have questions on this, this information, you can make an informed decision by getting as much information on this topic as you can.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): And I do want to be very clear. I really appreciate supporting women who are 203 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

carrying a pregnancy who would like help and support getting to their end goal. Those services you provide are admirable and valuable and have a place. And I don't want anything. I'm not asking questions to misconstrue that, but I just want to be very clear. I as a dietician with no knowledge on it, but my doctorate does not help me understanding very much of the reproductive system, but I just want to be clear that I would be nervous for a friend to feel like they were getting medical advice, which we know so few people can critically discern information. And when you call yourself a pregnancy center, I think people assume that information on your website is credible and scientifically valid. And I feel very comfortable saying that what you have just shared and what is on your website, I don't think it's scientifically valid. I feel comfortable with that conclusion and I am going to read this. I'll share the PDF with the rest of the committee. But I've taken enough of your time, so thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative.

ANNA MONTALVO: I just want --

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): I'm sorry.

ANNA MONTALVO: Sorry.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Please go ahead.

ANNA MONTALVO: Oh, thank you. No, I just wanted to, to share with her that, I know that, you know, with her concern, I can understand, especially if it's a friend or yourself, but progesterone has been used in miscarriage and infertility since 1950. So, it's not something that it's new. It's not something that is unknown to the world. It's been around for quite some time.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Of course, the off-record use of medication is so different than intended use, and 204 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

that's not what they're tested for. So, I think as - - and I just defer for you and I not to speculate on this further, because I don't want either of us to be a source of misinformation. If a doctor would like to weigh in on use of progesterone for off- record use, I feel more comfortable with that, but I don't think you or I should. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): I have to confess I feel very uncomfortable with this as well. Senator Anwar, followed by Senator Somers.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Thank you for a testimony. I just wanted to -- obviously I was listening, but I felt I had to speak a little bit. I think, for clarity and I know many people watching this, and if a medicine is approved medicine, it is approved for an indication. And so progesterone is approved for a specific purpose, but if somebody uses outside of that unstudied or unapproved purpose, that is a little dangerous territory, unless I think -- are you guys a research center as well, Ms. Montalvo?

ANNA MONTALVO: We have -- Again I'm sorry, I didn't quite get the question.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Are you guys in the research - - are you a research or for medical facility research arm at this time where you're undergoing--

ANNA MONTALVO: No, we're just a pregnancy resource center.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Okay. Well, that's good. I wanted to clarify that because if it's a part of a NIH granted research where another indication for progesterone was being used, then I can understand that, but in the absence of that, you're using something or recommending a use. Even before I go in that direction, let me just clarify another thing. Do you -- are you guys required to have a malpractice insurance? 205 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

ANNA MONTALVO: Our doctor has one.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Okay, but does the facility have a malpractice insurance?

ANNA MONTALVO: I don't know. That's a good question. I'm not sure I can get back to you on that one.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): No, I'm here for your sake. I mean, if this Bill would protect you guys if you don't have the malpractice insurance, because one of these days, statistically, one of the individuals who follows your recommendations and has a bad outcome, that is a statistical probability, that would harm your interests quite a bit. That the reason being that -- again, you're not a part of a research trial, but you're recommending off-label use of a medicine, which has not been approved by the FDA and you're making a recommendation in publications and on your website, that is a personal disaster waiting to happen, but also for you guys, fortunately, so that's -- I want you to be careful. And I think this Bill does good to protect you because when we are -- in the medical arena, I think it's very important to make the appropriate recommendations and they should be based on reasonable evidence and approvals.

And in this challenging world, do you know our state is losing OB-GYN doctors because the malpractice insurance is so high. And that's part of our challenge right now, is that such a high-risk situation. And on the other hand, we have these centers who are medical appearing, I don't know what the right word is, but they are making recommendations for various things. So it's a tricky area. So, I thought I needed to say this, that just because one medicine is approved for one indication, doesn't make it approved for every and any indication. So please protect the people, be responsible about that part. And I know our 206 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

passions for some areas are so important, but just tread carefully. It's human lives end of the day. You're talking about in many respects. So, thank you again for your testimony. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Senator.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Sorry, I'm trying to unmute. Sorry, I'm trying to unmute myself. So, I have a couple of questions. First of all, I went to your website while we were all talking about this and it looks like when you go to the abortion reversal pill, it sends you to a page which talks about, you know, how it is supposed to work in theory, and then to call a clinician. So, if someone is seeking or coming to your clinic, they have already, maybe started, well, I shouldn't say that, they could have already started to take the first pill for, the RU- 486, but not necessarily.

So, I am concerned that this is on your website because it is not the standard of care. There is no credible evidence to prove that this is actually something that works. It could be dangerous. It's not proven. It's controversial. There has not been a full clinical trial of benefit and it is not standard of care from ACOG. That concerns me, that that is on your website. And whether somebody has taken the first pill and the standard of care would be, don't take the second pill. It wouldn't necessarily be to flood your body with progesterone. If a doctor chose to do that, that would be, as Dr. Anwar has stayed, off-label and their decision.

And I don't see you offering that. I see you referring to a clinician for a person to speak to about it, but it does concern me that that's up there. And I just want to make sure that that's known because when we're talking about being clear, I can see how some people might think that that is something, "Okay. You know what? I want to make this dish decision. I'm gonna have an abortion and I'm gonna use the pill, but I will say I have the 207 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

comfort that I can go back and maybe I can get it reverse if I change my mind." I think that's something that you need to really think about as far as promoting and if your clinicians are doing it, that would be off-label. But I do not think it's right to be promoting a process that is not proven and that if anything, you know, has no credible evidence to see that it actually works. So I just wanted to let you know that that is very concerning to me.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Senator. Any other questions? If not, thank you. I'm sorry. You want to say something?

ANNA MONTALVO: No, it's fine. Yeah, I just wanted to make a last statement, because I know where the concerns are with this. And again, this is, we're just providing information that directs them directly to a physician, and progesterone is not the only medication that's being used off-label. There are multiple medications that are being used off- label. And I can -- I'm more than welcome to provide that list as well to show you guys that it's not just progesterone. There are multiple things that are used off-label. So we're just providing information. That's all. But I understand the concern. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): I'm actually more concerned with your last statement than I was before. I think this is the very different definition of misleading. Senator Anwar, followed by Representative --

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): I wasn't finished. Sorry. I wanted to follow up.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): I'm sorry, my apology Senator, please continue.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay.

ANNA MONTALVO: You're muted. 208 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Can I make a quick --

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): I hear you saying that. And I hear your words. But it would have been much different if I saw on your website. "If you have questions about whether a chemical abortion can be reversed, please feel free to consult with these clinicians." But not putting up all this information that is not proven, that has no credible evidence behind it. You know, the clinical trial that I looked at was not a full-blown clinical trial, and that's concerning, very concerning to me. So I just want to put that out there.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Senator Anwar, followed by Representative Foster.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, thank you for your testimony. So, you last few statements, if any had any question or concern about this Bill and they were actually on the fence that this Bill should not pass. This was a very clear statement that this Bill absolutely needs to pass. And I know where you stand. But I also want you to know that what you just said was that you're not only using one thing off-label, you're using multiple things off-label, and there's a whole list of the things that you do off-label.

ANNA MONTALVO: That's not what I said, I just said we use things off-label.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Let me finish. Let me finish. And I think, again, you helped me solidify where I stand with this Bill and I hope others would truly listen to this as well. So thank you again. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Representative Foster.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): And I -- similarly your response also elevates my concern from our previous 209 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

reaction. So I -- and I heard your attempt clarification, but just to be clear, what you have confirmed is that you are and your website is without medical professionals making recommendations and making medical, interpreting medical literature based on non-skilled medical advice and using that to promote information that is also not written and provided by medical providers. And so, during this conversation, I've had a very stomach churning a text message conversation with the reverse your abortion pill folks. And let me tell you, it's a horrifying experience that I don't wish on anyone. So I really, so I really hope you take that down. Like, as we end this conversation today, but I really hope my colleagues listen to this and I'm attaching to the email, the PDF, so Senator Somers shared, it was a discontinued medical trial because of consequences of the event experimental group. And so like you are advising something that researchers did not want to continue on. So you're not just putting information out there, people trust you. And that has been said from all of your similar colleagues throughout this process, you were a trusted community partner. And I think it's a dangerous use of that trust in the community to share reckless information. And so, I just ask, please consider the dangers that you're putting people in, even if it's just the emotional harm of talking to these people through this jack, which is horrible. So, thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you to clarify.

ANNA MONTALVO: Can I clarify something.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Please.

ANNA MONTALVO: Because you know that it's being said that we use, you know, off-script medication. I didn't say that we use off-script medication. What I said was that there are doctors that have done this before. And I'm not saying that I don't agree with you guys. I agree with your concern. Again, we 210 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

were just providing information on progesterone and the off-script medication, how it can be used. So, that's all I want to say. I just want to make sure that we clarify that I did not say that.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): We do appreciate that. And our focus has been on the information provided and the potential consequences of misinformation provided to somebody who trusts you as a resource. Are there any other questions for this? If not, thank you for your time. We've really put you through a lot. We appreciate it. Next up we have No. 30 Susan Baker, followed by Destenie Watford. Welcome, Susan.

SUSAN BAKER: Thank you. Oops. Am I on?

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Yes, you're on. We can hear you though we can't see you yet.

SUSAN BAKER: I'm sorry. I'm not sure how to turn that on.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Well, we will listen intently to your voice.

SUSAN BAKER: Okay. Thank you. I'm sorry. Thank you to the members of the Public Health Committee. I'm Susan Baker. I'm a registered nurse from Mystic, and I'm asking you to please vote no on SB 835. As many people have already pointed out, there have been no complaints about deceptive advertising and since there have never been complaints filed, how would deceptive advertising be handled where this Bill to be passed? That's a major problem. The bill doesn't specify what would be considered deceptive and gives absolute power to the Attorney General to make that determination, no complaint necessary. The current AG said that a statement on one of the pregnancy center websites that said, "Pregnant, we can help," was deceptive. How was that deceptive? That's exactly what pregnancy centers do. They provide help to pregnant women and their families. As the nurse 211 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

manager at Care Net of Southeastern Connecticut for seven years, I can tell you that our services have been critically needed, especially in the last year. And we have stayed safely open to provide help through it all.

There are women who come to us because they can't even afford to purchase a pregnancy test kit, our medical personnel perform pregnancy tests and administer ultrasounds to establish gestational age and provide a written verification of pregnancy, so they can receive needed services. Our trained staff helps clients access health insurance, or emergency funds for health care. They help clients get doctor's appointments as well as make referrals to social service agencies. Our clients have access to our birthing classes, parenting classes, and material assistance. That includes cribs, car seats, formula, diapers, and other baby items. Our center also offers STI testing to anyone.

All our services are at no charge to the plan or to taxpayers and are completely confidential. We frequently have clients who seek out our services when they're unsure of what they want to do about their pregnancy. Many of those women choose us because they've been referred by a friend who knows they will receive accurate objective information about all of their options, including abortion. We help them make an informed decision and provide support for them, no matter what choice they make. I can't imagine that a friend would have referred them to a place that would deceive them. This bill is certainly not in the best interest of women, because it will make it harder for women to find an access to the services of these centers. Please do not limit women's choices, vote no on SB 835. And I invite you to read the written testimony I submitted that addresses some of the misconceptions and untruths concerning pregnancy centers and it specifically addresses the medical service provided. And I welcome any questions.

212 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for your testimony. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you for your testimony. One of the allegations we have heard is that pregnancy resource centers are falsely claiming to have a medical personnel when they don't. We have even heard them called fake medical clinics. Is that true?

SUSAN BAKER: We keep hearing that too. There's nothing fake about us. Any facility that provides any medical care, particularly ultrasounds. We have either a trained sonographer or a nurse who's had special training to do limited ultrasounds and we're certified. And all of those are under the direction of the medical director who is a licensed physician in the State of Connecticut. And we have clear waivers that allow us to do the lab work that we do here. So we have all the licenses that are required by the State of Connecticut.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, that was gonna be my next question, because we have heard that the pregnancy centers are not licensed. So, you just answered my question.

SUSAN BAKER: Yeah.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): That you are licensed. Okay. And then, another allegation that has come up is that clients cannot expect you to maintain patient privacy because you don't adhere to HIPAA.

SUSAN BAKER: Well, they may not understand what HIPAA is related to. HIPAA has to do with billing, insurance. We don't bill insurance. So we actually don't -- the state has said we don't fall under HIPAA, but patient privacy existed long before that. I've been a registered nurse for almost 50 years now and that was drummed into us from the beginning that you maintain patient privacy at all costs. That's a moral, ethical responsibility of any healthcare 213 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

professional in any facility and all of the centers that, we do that we would never violate patient privacy.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you. And I appreciate that answer. And that will be my last question. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you Representative. I must say that I've never heard HIPAA defined in quite that manner, but I appreciate the fact that you do provide privacy. Any other questions? If not, thank you for your testimony. Next up is Destenie Watford, followed by No. 32, Molly Hurtado. Is Destenie Watford available? I can see her name, but I don't see her yet. Destenie, we're gonna give you another 30 seconds and then we're gonna have to move on.

DESTENIE WATFORD: Hello.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): All right. Now you're there, Destenie. Welcome.

DESTENIE WATFORD: Yes, I got a phone call. It's okay. Hi, my name is Destenie Watford and I'm coming to oppose the SB, I forgot the numbers, but I'm here to oppose that bill. Okay.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): You're definitely in the right place. Please continue.

DESTENIE WATFORD: Okay. Thank you. So my name is Destenie and I had something on my heart to share, but I want to share this. I was watching for the fast past few hours. And I was watching how they said, how people were testifying saying that we didn't know the difference. And I wanted to say because I'm testifying, the fact that I've been to both an abortion clinic and to a woman's pregnancy center and to be exact, I went to ABC Women's Pregnancy Center and I moved the difference between them both. As I was in the women's pregnancy 214 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

center, it's just the atmosphere was peaceful. I walked in, I was greeted, I gave him my name, my birthday or my information, and I was able to be able to talk. It was patient. The lady was patient with me. She was kind, she was welcoming and she offered me many services, many services. It wasn't just opposition to anything. And then I went to an abortion clinic and when I went to an abortion clinic, it was totally different.

I was told when I called not to speak to anybody, walking in. On the way to walk in, I wasn't allowed to speak to anybody to get in. When I walked in. There was a metal detector and it made me afraid. And when I seen the metal detector, I seen the officer. And then when I went into the door, after I gave my ID, the door locked and there was weeping in there, like there were women crying and when they would cry, somebody would come out and talk to them about not discouraging other women. And I understand that. And then we were arguing in a brown paper bag. It was like really quick and rushed. Even down to the counseling they give you in there, you get like two seconds. They give you a piece of paper. They bring you upstairs. After the procedure, get crackers, saltines, and you leave. They don't even make sure if the ride comes because they ask you to have a ride, but nobody walks you down to make sure you have a ride. So, I know you don't need a ride really. You just get on the bus and you're --. It's very difficult. But when I went to the ABC Women's Center, I really felt like I had options. I had a choice. I felt like they wanted to hear all of what I wanted to talk about and they were there. They offered me water too. And they were just very kind. I know that I was given a tour too, so there was no hidden, no doors were locked. I think the locked doors at the abortion clinic really made me afraid, 'cause I was wondering like what could happen in here. And with the Women's ABC Center, there was no locked doors. I liked that. And I liked the fact that it was a clean environment. I didn't feel misled or misguided. I just knew what there was a 215 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

difference. I think the advertisement is very clear and it's to the point. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for your testimony. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, thank you, Destenie for your testimony.

DESTENIE WATFORD: You're welcome.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): My daughter's name is Destiny. It's spelled a little different, so I like your name. So you described an experience in both places, and so you had no problem going from one to the other and knowing which one was for which, correct, in terms of what they offered for services. You were very aware that there weren't abortion services at the ABC Center.

DESTENIE WATFORD: Walking in, I think you just know just like they said from hearsay, you just know I'm gonna say you just kind of know.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay.

DESTENIE WATFORD: Like they tell you, like, go, go there, you need like diapers and wipes. Like they'll help you. So the girls in this town, in Middletown, they already have told me, like I have been there, everybody have been there. So it's like, when you have your baby, they're not just gonna leave you, they're gonna help you and they do.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. And that's the one that you went to was the one in Middletown or was it, the one in Hartford?

DESTENIE WATFORD: The one in Middletown is the ABC's Women's Center.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay.

216 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

DESTENIE WATFORD: The abortion clinic I went to in Hartford was One Main Street. It was on One Main Street. That's the address.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you.

DESTENIE WATFORD: Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you. Representative Gilchrest.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Hi, Ms. Watford, thank you so much for being here today to share your personal experience. And I'm sorry that that was your experience at the abortion provider, because I am sorry that we live in a society where abortion providers have historically been under attack. There's a history of bombings and violence at abortion clinics. And so, the reason that they instruct folks not to talk to people outside is because as we heard earlier, there are oftentimes protesters who potentially went engaging someone entering an abortion clinic will say hurtful and misleading things. And so, also, that's such a shame that there is a metal detector, but again, that is the unfortunate culture we live in where women's right to access reproductive healthcare is under attack. And so, I appreciate you sharing your testimony and describing what it's like at certain abortion providers in the state who have to put those unfortunate safety measures in place. Thank you.

DESTENIE WATFORD: Can I respond to that?

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Yes.

DESTENIE WATFORD: I'm just going to be honest with you. I had three abortions before I even knew about the Women's Center. One time, I didn't listen to them. And I went inside and there was this lady and she was like, "I just want to give you something. 217 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

And what when she put in my hand was a cross, that had beads on it and she was like, "I can help you if you need help." She wasn't rough. And then I just decided still to make my choice. I just decided still to make my choice, but the moral of the --I'm sorry, I had to shut my door.

The moral of the story is I decided to make my choice, but she wasn't roughing me. She just gave me the bead. And it was like reassurance going in there. The reason why I opted out of it was because the reason she said she was gonna help me, you just need help. That's why I think some women go to abortion clinics, if I could be honest, like you don't know who's gonna help people, but ABC women's center, they give you a diaper bag and they give you everything else. They weren't violent with me, the protestors. That's all I wanted to say. I only talked to them once. I've had three abortions and I didn't -- after I found out about the Women's Center, I never did it again.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): And that's good to hear. And, and the point of this legislation today isn't to shut down crisis pregnancy centers, it's to make sure that women know where they're going. And so it's great to hear that you did understand and knew the difference between the two. That's the whole intent as I see it, of this legislation.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): I have a question for you based on your story. Imagine for a moment as you can, that you were not Christian and somebody put a cross in your hand, how would you feel?

DESTENIE WATFORD: At that time I wasn't Christian, but just like you hear word of mouth, you try new things. Like people just try new things at that time. I wasn't Christian. I was doing what I wanted to do.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you. Any other questions for this speaker. If not, thank you for 218 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

your time. We appreciate it. Next up, Molly Hurtado, followed by John Levin MOLLY HURTADO: Good afternoon, members of the Committee. My name is Molly Hurtado. I was the former Executive Director of ABC Women's Center from 2014 to 2019. I got into this work, working at the pregnancy center because I was deeply passionate about.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Molly, we lost you. You went on mute. Can you unmute yourself again, please? Molly, we can't hear you.

MOLLY HURTADO: Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Can you hear me?

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): There you go. Go ahead, please.

MOLLY HURTADO: Okay. Sorry about that. As an infertile woman, it might have been a very odd career path for me to choose to lead a pregnancy center, but it was the most incredible work of my life. I truly believe that the individuals on both sides, whether you're working as an OB or whether you're working at a pregnancy center, whether you're working at a place that performs abortion, that a common thread that we all have is that we do truly want to help women. I never got into this field intentionally thinking I would be deceiving women and I never did. We never did. And I never thought that I would be speaking to a Public Health Committee trying to defend the good work, the reputable work, the vetted work by hundreds and hundreds of clients before legislators.

Pregnancy centers didn't form in order to become political entities, they were forced into it by legislation such as this. And it's very unfortunate that for four years, we have been fighting and testifying and gathering information year after year, with again, very little firsthand vetted experience of negative experience from clients, that 219 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

we have seen. I would be happy to talk with you about the types of materials I produced over my five years working as Executive Director advertising materials from the website to our social media platforms to community flyers. If you want to speak specifically about our advertisement, I think that our history of what we have done and the benefit that we are, not only to the state, but to our communities and the thousands of women collectively that we serve every year, speak for themselves. And I'm really hopeful that this year that this Bill can end and that we won't have to think about it resurfacing year after year, because it's taking us away from that work that we are called to do, that we feel passionate to do and that is serving women. I believe that you care about women, which is why you're hearing this Bill. And I'm not bringing that into question, but I do bring into question the validity of bringing up a reoccurring bill year after year, when there is no evidence that would suffice for this Bill to be heard continually. I'd be happy to answer any questions that the committee may have.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, and thank you for your testimony. I just wondered as the former CEO or Executive Director, could you speak specifically to the information put out in the crisis pregnancy centers, a threat to report, excuse me, reproductive freedom on the updated version on February, 2018. There's many things mentioned in here. I didn't know if you could speak to any of that.

MOLLY HURTADO: Are you referring to the NARAL Report?

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Yes.

MOLLY HURTADO: Where they sent an undercover people and paid them to try to trip up people in the 220 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

pregnancy centers. Is that what the report is? Because there is no firsthand experience, right?

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Yeah. I don't know about that, but if you could speak, that would be good. But it's just a complete booklet here, the right to lie. I think that it refers to.

MOLLY HURTADO: Yeah. I mean, we could –- maybe you could ask me a more specific question, because like you said, it is quite lengthy, so I'm not sure exactly where you'd like me to go with it. But what I can say is that the defamation that these types of reports have on our character, on our merit, on our, well-earned reputation in our communities is embarrassing at large. And honestly, it's -- I don't know why we haven't slapped a lawsuit on it, to be honest. I mean it, because it's worth that. We have licensed medical professionals within our offices. We have RNs, we have sonographers, we have MDs a variety of different medical professionals and the fact that a booklet of however many pages as you are referring to would seek to discredit their, not only the reputation, but their earned degrees is alarming.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you. So can you elaborate a little bit on the undercover for that you've briefly mentioned?

MOLLY HURTADO: Absolutely. Within the five years that I was Executive Director of ABC Women's Center, we had on more than a handful of occasions, I would say eight occasions, we had plants or spies that were either associated with Wesleyan University or with NARAL specifically. What came to a head where a protest was -- had and scheduled outside of my center in July of 2017, where we had to close our doors because people were gathering with signs that said there are fake doctors work here, fake medical professionals. And our clients were actually, you know, we're not alarmed at all because they knew who they were being served by, didn't stop us from 221 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

seeing clients, didn't stop them from getting service at our center. It was just really embarrassing on our opponent side. But there have been slander campaigns that have been spearheaded from NARAL for a number of years. But specifically, it ended and came to a head at my center with a protest in 2017.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, this is several pages long and highlight several different things, you know, qualifying you as having real medical personnel in your facilities. I'm just trying to skim through here to see specifically, obviously the transparency of the ad. I'm looking at some of the ads and I'm trying to understand why, you know, like pregnant need help and then it's for the pregnancy center, I'm not sure why that's deceitful, but just--

MOLLY HURTADO: I agree. I agree with you. I don't know why that would be deceitful. You know, all of us are so transparent. I think I can speak on behalf of all the centers that if any legislator would like a list of our medical professionals, they want to Google search us, make sure that our medical professionals truly are state certified, state licensed. We'd be happy to provide that information to you. But what we would like to see after four years is that this defamation end, it is absolutely -- it's rude and it's unconstitutional. And we shouldn't have to be continuously put under this sort of scrutiny for those who have worked very hard to obtain their medical professions.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Thanks so much for your testimony.

MOLLY HURTADO: Absolutely. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Representative Foster.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): I have a question and maybe this would have been better served for, when the 222 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

current director was on. But, since I missed my chance, I hope you don't mind if I ask you a lot of the language, so far today has been about very early pregnancies. And I'm just curious, is that like what ultrasound, what does ultrasounds look like at very early pregnancy?

MOLLY HURTADO: Yeah, and I don't want to speak on behalf of Robin Brown, who also served as our medical services manager while I was director, but I believe she meant an early pregnancy test. We are able to provide EPTs for all of our clients who are looking to verify their pregnancy with a pregnancy test and then confirm their pregnancy with an ultrasound. Most obese women are unable to get their first initial ultrasound until they're at least 10 weeks pregnant. At a pandemic on top of that, we're pushing that into 15 to 16 weeks. Our women who come for us, who freely choose and consent to come to our centers, they want that information and they want it fast. They want it now. And so, we're able to provide those ultrasounds through our sonographers as early as six weeks gestation.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Okay. So you're not talking about providing internal ultrasounds then in your practice.

MOLLY HURTADO: We would, especially at that point in the pregnancy, they would be intrauterine. Yeah.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Okay. All right. Thanks.

MOLLY HURTADO: Yeah.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Are there any other questions? If not, thank you for your testimony. We really appreciate it.

MOLLY HURTADO: Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Next up is No. 34, John Levin, followed by Jo Ann Bittner. John Levin, I do 223 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

see you're in the room. If you could prepare yourself to testify. We'll give you another 30 seconds, sir. All right, we will now then to Jo Ann Bittner. Welcome.

JO ANN BITTNER: Okay. Sorry.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Relax. Everything's fine. Take your time.

JO ANN BITTNER: I have to figure out how to turn this on, you know, for the thing. Okay. Okay. Good afternoon, committee members. My legal name is Josephine Bittner and my nickname is Joanne. I most intensely and unremittingly am opposed to SB 835. I am upset and angry that this proposed bill targets faith-based pregnancy resource centers. Excuse me. Oh, something happened.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Everything is fine. You're quite aloud. You're great.

JO ANN BITTNER: Okay. I was told I --

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): We can hear you just fine.

JO ANN BITTNER: Okay, sorry about that. Sorry. I'm upset and angry that this proposed bill targets faith-based pregnancy resource centers by saying that they use deceptive practices in their advertising. This is the fourth year in a row that this has been brought up with no supportive facts that this is true. (clears throat) Excuse me. I have a little bit of laryngitis. Again, the question is to the writer and the proponents of this Bill and to this committee is where is the factual and substantive evidence that a client's seeking services at pregnancy resource centers are being lied to or deceived. There are no complaints about this on the ABC Women's client reviews. When asked by a caller over the phone or by person in the center, if we do or refer for abortions, the answer is always, no, we do not do nor refer for abortions. 224 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Once again, where's the deception. Another question for the committee members, have you ever visited a pregnancy resource centers to see what information they give their clients and how they do things? I have volunteered at ABC for over 15-- (clears throat) -- excuse me, for over 15 years. And I can honestly say that I have never deceived or lied to a client over the phone, or when they come in for an appointment. Women that come into the center received factual knowledge that will empower them to make an informed decision. All the services offered are free to any client. There is no tax payer money involved. This bill assumes that women with an unplanned pregnancy are not interested in other options and abortion alternatives. Such women may feel that they have to face the decision alone concerning their unplanned pregnancy, and that there are no options open to them regarding their next steps. The pregnancy resource centers come alongside these women at such time as this with factual information. This bill is targeting the face-based pregnancy resource centers. There are laws already in place to regulate deceptive advertising. Check for yourself that there is no deceptive advertising put forth by these centers. This bill is totally unnecessary. Do not vote Bill SB 385 out of committee. Thank you for listening to me. I'm finished.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for your testimony. Are there any questions, comments. If not, thank you for your testimony. We appreciate it.

JO ANN BITTNER: Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): I'll give John Levin, another shot. If not, we will move on to Trenea McGee. Ms. McGee, please -- welcome, please give us your testimony.

TRENEA MCGEE: Hello, my name is Trenea McGee. I'm a West Haven City council member, but I'm just here as Trenea and I am here to completely oppose SB 835. As 225 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

we've gathered today to share, absorb, learn, and take heart. Let's take heart in the times, moment and conditions and circumstances, we all live in. Let us believe within ourselves that we have power and igniting power to do something deeply, substantial, and central for women. As a supporter of pregnancy centers here in the State of Connecticut, here are my sentiments. And listening to the statements regarding targeted advertisement and misleading advertisement, I can't help, but think about the disproportionality that abortion rates have had on particularly black women beginning with this inception of abortion clinics and a passion for eugenics. Black women were sought after by abortion clinics. On December 10th, 1939 Sanger wrote to CJ Gamble, "We do not want word to get out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out the idea that if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members." 38% of all abortions have been performed on black women when black Americans only make up 13.4% of the population. With instant access to abortions within black communities and billboards, I've personally seen with depictions of black babies as gateways to abortion clinics. It is clear that anytime resources are limited, it is detrimental to the black woman and family. As a very proud black woman, pregnancy crisis centers must be equally as important and have greater significant to our community within our community for its powerful benefits and attributes. Planned Parenthood doesn't provide prenatal services, but a billboard with an Afro black baby, I drove by on the highway seems as though prenatal services are provided, there was another billboard off Exit 8 on I95 and the other was on a side of a Popeye's restaurant on Foxton Road, heavily black populated urban community. Supporting this Bill is a true disservice to a vulnerable population. The power of life rest upon an exceptional amount of choices we provide for women. When a young woman, young, black and Brown women reach out to me and share their dangerous experiences they've had. And one in particular 226 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

taking the abortion pill RU-486, she was left in a coma needing a blood transfusion with an infection behind her uterus and now unable to carry a baby. The healthcare women told her she was being offered, seemed to disappear after having gone back to the facility where she received the pill, given an antibiotic and told that was all that could be done right here in the state of Connecticut. Not sure how all abortions are safe, nor should we limit services pregnancy centers provide. We are liable to keep this conversation open to multiple means of accessible resources. It is deeply arrogant to assume that the best solution is only one choice, especially in a movement where choice is the only acceptable word. The irony of this disposition is that it is untrue. It is also unfair to put demands on pregnancy centers without holding abortion clinics to the same detriment. Why uproot the very tree with multiple branches to a woman's decision. We chop it down with an acts of force assumption at the root, completely disfiguring destroying and dismantling accesses to women beyond abortion clinics. Who wants to be a part of that? False and unrealistic narratives, but significantly true and realistic life experiences. So whose choice is this about? Life within each center is full of --

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: You hit your three-minute mark. If you wouldn't mind concluding your remarks.

TRENEA MCGEE: Thank you. Thank you so much. And must we continue to allow –- must we continue to limit services and choices for women, please vote no on this Bill period. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much, Ms. McGee. Representative Zupkus.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Hi, thank you for coming. I just have one quick question. On talking about the woman, you've just described and taking that pill, was there a complaint filed? 227 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

TRENEA MCGEE: So, I know that she is currently pursuing legal action and I've also empowered her and been a part of her helping to publicly speak about what took place. But there were like bindings, unfortunately, because she signed paperwork that said these things could happen, and was told that she was given a safe option, but did not realize that she'd be in a coma not able to walk. So when going back to the clinic, she was sort of told that there was nothing she can do, but I do know she is pursuing legal action.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): And did you -- and I might have missed it. Did you say the name of the clinic?

TRENEA MCGEE: It was Planned Parenthood in Bridgeport, Connecticut.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Okay. Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much once again. I don't see any other comments. So, thank you for your time. Next, we have Liz Gustafson.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Hi everyone, Senator Abrams, Representative Steinberg, and distinguished members of the Public Health Committee. My name is Liz Gustafson and I am the State Director of NARAL Pro- Choice Connecticut. And I am here to testify in strong support of SB 835. NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut has been at the forefront of researching and documenting the practices of anti-choice crisis pregnancy centers for years. We are an advocacy organization whose mission is to support access to the full range of reproductive healthcare services, including abortion. I have submitted much more thorough written testimonies. So, for the purpose of time, I just want to summarize some key points for you. So NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut has published 228 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

two landmark reports, both in 2015, and then an updated version in 2018. And the findings from these reports show that although their practices are varied, several of the centers have, and continue to deceive individuals who are seeking time-sensitive essential healthcare. In 2017, we supported the passage of a local ordinance in Hartford, which limits the deceptive advertising practices and that was regarding the CPC next to the Hartford GYN Center. It is also important to recognize the impact this Bill has already had, especially when considering in 2019, this legislation passed out of this committee and received a majority vote in the house of representatives. We are glad to see that public pressure and this legislature's attention to ongoing deceptive practices has led to some changes on websites, illustrating the center's ability to increase their transparency. While the introduction has had some positive impacts that we welcome, commercial speech also includes advertisements outside of what we may consider traditional marketplaces, especially when considering the increased use of social media marketing. Some centers in our state who purport to offer pregnancy related care, do so on platforms like Facebook, which is what, you know, we've talked about before, while ultimately still failing to disclose that they will not perform or refer for abortion. This bill is extremely limited in scope and does nothing in regards to limiting or censoring the daily operations or advocacy these centers engage in. When people look for healthcare, they expect that they're going to get unbiased medical advice, especially when advertising is designed as such. Despite the legal right to abortion, it remains something that is still highly stigmatized and the burden of proof should not fall upon those who were shamed, deceived or delayed when accessing care. When facing an unplanned pregnancy, accessing the full range of options and ultimately making a decision to have an abortion is personal. And that is a decision that should be made between someone and their provider. Just as we should trust individuals to make the best 229 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

decision for themselves, their health and their future, people who need time-sensitive healthcare should be able to trust the advertising they come across when seeking that care. We have a clear solution between us and that would address the burdens and barriers faced by people who need access to care. Given the prevalence of attempts by --

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: You hit your three-minute mark.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Thank you. Given the prevalence of the deceptive advertising that CBC's continued to use on various platforms, we strongly urge the members of this committee to take action and support SB 835. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, and thank you for your testimony. Could you give some specific deceptive advertising that you're speaking of?

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Yes, I have a screenshot. Hold on, let me find it on my desktop really quickly and just read it. Sorry. There's a lot of windows up here. There we go. So, this is from Care Net PRC on April 2nd in 2020. And it reads, "Experience in an unplanned pregnancy can be one of the most difficult times in your life. It can bring about feelings of doubt, stress, and a lot of undue anxiety. Facing a pregnancy decision during this particular season can be even harder." And they were referencing COVID. "Even if your pregnancy was planned, you may be wondering if you should continue your pregnancy or if an abortion or the abortion pill is a safe option for you. We can help. If you or someone you know is facing a pregnancy decision right now, give us a call or send us a message today." And I just -- I included that one 'cause I wanted to highlight that. The bill language itself when discussing advertising mentions that no limited service pregnancy center with the intent to perform a pregnancy related 230 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

service shall make or disseminate before the public or cause to be made or disseminated before a public in any newspaper or other publication through any advertising device or in any other manner, including, but not limited to through the use of internet any statement concerning any pregnancy related service or the provision as such. And so that's just one example. And I included that one specifically because advertising and the marketplace, as we know, it has evolved over time. You know, we used to have yellow pages. And then now, especially now that when you're in a virtual hearing, advertising is taking place, you know, more on the internet and on social media platforms. So, yeah, I hope that answered your question.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Can you give an example of a change on a particular website?

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Yeah. So, I will say that ABC Women's Center has updated their website in making it more clear under the tab abortion that they do not refer or provide, which was done after the sheer introduction of this Bill, which is why we're still here today. And I think it, you know, highlights the merit that such legislation would have, and continuing to make sure that this transparency is happening across the board.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. And have you ever visited a pregnancy center to learn more about what they are doing as a director and not as an undercover, a fake client?

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Well, so in our two reports, I think that's what you're referencing as a fake client. But I think that people who may become pregnant, who go undercover are, you know, people who might be seeking services in the future. But I have not been to a CPC, but I will say from a personal note when I was younger, I remember there was a scare. And I remember thinking that I could go somewhere that had a sign that had, you know, free pregnancy tests and 231 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

their phone number. And this was down on the shore of Connecticut. And it was a Birthright, which is a network of CPCs. And there's a few here in our state.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. So there's a difference between talking about abortion and having a doctor, a nurse share information about abortion. And do you have a problem with one versus the other -- in other words -- go ahead.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Oh, sorry. I understand that, you know, as an advocacy organization that has the word pro-choice in its name, you know, for access to abortion and legality of abortion, versus those who oppose abortion is, you know, a controversial topic and a heated debate, but this Bill would do nothing to restrict or limit the, you know, pro-life or anti-choice advocacy that these organizations can engage in. I respect important First Amendment rights, but again, this Bill is so limited in scope. It is just addressing a commercial speech and an unprotected form of speech.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): You keep mentioning anti- choice and, and can you elaborate on that? I mean, I haven't heard any of them say they don't want people to have choices, not one report or testimony today said anything about not wanting individuals that come in there to have a choice.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: So I mean, I say anti-choice and I apologize for any confusion that might cause, but most CPCs are a, you know, frontline of a movement, a national coordinated campaign that is working to further restrict access to care, and CPCs in Connecticut, there are a few are affiliated with these national organizations that actively lobby and advocate to roll back access to care.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Regarding an image that you had in your -- suggested in your deceptive, well, in your testimony, it was suggested that it was 232 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

deceptive on page two for the whole pregnancy center and ABC Women's Center. Looking at it, I do not think I would recognize this even remotely deceptive. What is it that you see that picture was get help? What is deceptive about that?

LIZ GUSTAFSON: It is what I don't see. And that when you were saying, you know, message us now, call us now while these centers may clarify more effectively on their websites, that they do not provide or refer for abortion when you are disseminating the same information as a pregnancy resource center on social media, I think that you should -- it should also be clarified that they do not provide or refer for abortion as well, if they are advertising services.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So what you're saying is in order to get help, a person would have to provide a particular service like abortion.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: No, I think they would have to make it clear that they do not do that. So folks, you know, there was a lot of -- well, once they enter our door, they are told that. But again, this is about a time sensitive thing, where there are certain cutoffs on various procedures and we have the ability to make sure that people can truly make the informed decision with, you know, being empowered with that knowledge. So they can decide if they -- if they do in fact, want to go to a pregnancy resource center because maybe they do want a specific type of counseling and that is within their right.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Many of the people that have testified today have expressed their concern for being time sensitive with regard to even women who would decide to proceed with the pregnancy that would be, for example, prenatal vitamins and WIC services and other things. So, they are committed to moving that along as well. So, I'm trying to understand what you mean by the delay they do, you 233 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

know, in this COVID culture we're living in right now where everything is delayed with appointments and getting into doctors. They told, testified over and over again that they can get an ultrasound done very quickly and determine a pregnancy. So what are you -- what are you referring to when you say delay?

LIZ GUSTAFSON: I'm referring to folks that are accessing time-sensitive abortion care, and the cost that may be associated with that care, if someone is uninsured or if they're insured or, you know, as invasive as a procedure could be, that is a big, a big issue. Like, again, I will go personal. I in. 2018 had an abortion. And I knew that I wanted a medication abortion because I wanted to have it in the privacy of my own home. And thankfully I was fully aware of where it could go and I was able to go receive compassionate care and have my abortion in the way that I, you know, wanted to have it. And you were saying that the time sensitive nature, I remember that conversation, whereas folks should -- because it is time sensitive, they should be able to know before they go through the logistical loopholes of making an appointment and getting to that appointment, that they are going to get the full range of options that they may be seeking.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Thank you very much.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Are you all set, Representative.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Yes. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Representative Zupkus.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Thank you. Madam chair. Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for coming Liz. My question 234 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

is how many clients do y'all serve in Connecticut a year?

LIZ GUSTAFSON: We are not a service provider. We are an advocacy organization. So, I know that later Roxanne Sutocky from the Women's Centers will be testifying. And then I would refer to Planned Parenthood for their service members.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): So no idea.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: I mean, I know there is, but --

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): Thousand, ten thousand, a hundred.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: I'm sure it's in the high thousands, but I do not want to give improper information because I just don't have that in front of me.

REP. ZUPKUS (89TH): I can appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thank you.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: You're welcome.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): All set. Okay. I've a few questions for you if that's okay. Earlier today, one of the CPCs that testified, I looked on their website and actually they had right on the website where it said seeking an alternative to abortion. So to me, that was very clear that they -- that was the services they wanted to provide. They wanted to provide an alternative to having an abortion support through the pregnancy, either choosing to be a parent or maybe adoption, but I felt like that was so essential in making it clear to someone, if they looked, what they'd be seeking. And I think that CPCs who do that and provide those kinds of support should be very proud of that because I am a pro-choice person. And so I value the services that they do provide, but I do understand what you're saying in terms of, you know, if you go there, someone else was saying, why would a business 235 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

advertise what they don't do. And I think that if you were a business and people were taking up your time and energy and efforts and resources to come looking for something that you weren't providing, you wouldn't keep letting them do that. That would be a waste of your business as this person referred to it. So, I think that it should be celebrated what PCPs want to do. Right. So if they're doing it in a way that's honest and open and allows women to know what they're getting before they even walk in the door. Because I think you referred to it earlier, you know, for some women you have to take time off work or get childcare or figure out how you're going to get to this place, the transportation whereas if you could look on the website or even when you call you got a full picture of what would be provided or not provided, that would just save you the time, if that's not the services you were looking for. So I think that what I would like to do through this Bill is just make it clearer to women when they're in that situation, what they can look for, and if it's what you want to look for support, there it is. What you want to look for is you're not sure, and you would like to talk to somebody about different options or even seek out an organization that is faith-based. Then that's what you should go do. I want women to get what they want to get when they're in that situation. And I think that's what I hear you saying as well.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Absolutely, I fully believe that we should, you know, increase support and normalize all pregnancy outcomes. And because especially in the pandemic, access to resources is imperative, especially for people who are pregnant or, you know, seeking to maybe start a family. Right. But everyone has the right to decide if when and how to start or grow their family. And I truly believe that this Bill will help make that a reality. So, folks have these informed decisions. So, if they do want to start a family, they know they can go to one of these centers and receive these resources. Or if they're not ready, like I was not able to do that, I 236 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

could know where I'm going, will provide me with that service.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I think that someone previously-- I'll save this question for someone who actually has one of these pregnancy centers. I think, because I think it was Representatives Dauphinais said, asked you about if you had any objections to doctors or nurses sharing information. And I'm just curious as to whether or not it's always a doctor or a nurse who's doing the counseling and giving information about processes like abortions and you know what that would be like. I just don't know if it's always a doctor or a nurse, so I don't know. I'll save that question for someone who does that work, I guess.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Well, I also think just to add to that, that the conversation around like the abortion reversal discussion, the fact that they were referring to a hotline or a texting number, but they were still, you know, guiding them to do that. It kind of shows that some places are not adequately prepared to, you know, ensure that folks are adequately prepared themselves to make decisions about their pregnancies.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): And I just want to -- one last thing, I just want to say that I too remember being in the hearing, actually I think it was in 2019 and looking at some websites and asking them why they did make that clear and knowing that some of the websites went in and immediately changed or changed by the next day. So I think that showed me that it was the idea that you don't know what deception is or what would be needed to correct it. I think that they do know what is needed to correct it. And I applaud those groups who have done that, or like I referred to that other group that makes it very clear that they're an alternative to, you know, an abortion that I applaud those organizations that are making themselves clear, because I do think that they provide a service and a needed service. And we 237 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

just want it to be clear to women what they're getting. There's some more questions, Representative Gilchrest.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Madam chair. And thank you, Ms. Gustafson. I can never say your name, last name. For being here today as a former Executive Director of NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut, it's nice to see you in this role. I want, I have a few questions. The first is with regards to the studies that NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut has done with the secret shoppers. There's been a lot of discussion and discrediting of those that study in that, in the follow-up report today, as someone with a social work background, I'm a have my master's in social work with a focus on policy practice, doing studies to better understand an issue is part of the practice I was trained in and I think helps to make good policy. So two things, one a comment was made about the paying of the secret shoppers. There are many, I hear radio ads for example, quitting smoking and there's offered a stipend. So, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with paying folks in a study, wondering if the secret shoppers in the study were paid. And then my bigger question is why did you all conduct this study? What was the reasoning behind it?

LIZ GUSTAFSON: So, no, they were not paid. And why we conducted this study is because, you know, centers like Hartford GYN Center started to notice an uptick of anti-choice protest or activity. And then there shortly after a CPC moved next door and they worked directly with that, CPC and the protestors to, you know, redirect folks to go into their clinic. We also, you know, I highlighted it earlier that it is a national coordinated campaign by folks who are fundamentally opposed to abortion. And we did it because it is a matter of public health and it is our job and our role to make sure that folks can access their constitutional right to have an abortion, free of barriers, stigma, and shame. And it is really about believing in a future 238 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

where folks can fully make decisions and exercise their autonomy. And so, once you know, there is any report or experience or in our reports too, firsthand storytelling, we are going to take action because no one should be deceived or delayed when trying to just access healthcare.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you. And I suppose my next piece is a statement rather than a question. I appreciate you speaking to the context and the climate in which we live and that your organization is advocating for a pro-choice position. And there are organizations nationally and state based that are advocating for, what I would call and I believe you do anti-choice or pro-life position. And we need to have that framework to be able to understand this issue, because I don't believe we'd even be having this conversation if we weren't in that climate. And so thank you for connecting that this --there are national organizations who on their websites and in their advocacy materials suggest and give step-by- step how crisis pregnancy centers can open, what they should do, how they should make themselves look in order to have women come to them instead of a full reproductive health clinic. Similar to that your organization and NARAL Pro-Choice America puts out information and steps on how you can do a secret shopper investigation in order to ensure that women have access to all their reproductive healthcare. So, I appreciate you being here and for your answers today. Thank you.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Representative. Okay. Representative Dauphinais for the second time.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you again. I just wanted to follow up on a couple of questions since you brought up some things with regard to the secret shopper and Again about choice. I didn't ever hear any of the centers speak about not wanting individuals to have choice. We all have choices to 239 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

go from one place to the other to go shopping for different things. So I guess I'm not hearing that part of that, that you keep insisting that by not offering abortion, it doesn't give the person the choice to go and get an abortion. But you said that you made undercover visits in your testimony to pregnancy centers, did you have permission to send fake clients to these pregnancy centers?

LIZ GUSTAFSON: So I was not employed at NARAL Pro- Choice Connecticut at the time of the studies and so, but it was, you know, a volunteer based thing. And I do not -- Can you expand more on what you mean by that if we had permission to do so?

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, I guess, you know, permission, it's customary with the secret shopper, like programs that someone in the organization being shocked would approve that. So I'm assuming the pregnancy centers did not approve NARAL bringing it in on themselves to do this.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: I do not believe that there would be, you know, consent or, you know, any rules were necessarily, you know, broken obviously. They, you know, probably would not be pleased because we, you know, have findings that are not, you know, helpful to their mission or, you know, or used to be mission. But, yeah, I'm struggling to answer this question just because I was not there at the time of the start of the study. But I do know that we had permission of, we did the story collection in 2018 as a case study with people in Hartford. And they were actual patients who did consent to us using their stories, you know, albeit changing their names, but that was a formal process as well.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, I think as I recall Planned Parenthood undercover videos were considered to be breaking the law if I'm recalling correctly. So, do you think NARAL was breaking any laws by doing what they did?

240 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: I do not think so because the places that were visited are not medically licensed providers that aren't, you know, highly regulated by the state. But I would also refer to Roxanne who is with the Women's Centers and also represents the Hartford GYN Center because she has been around a bit more and can provide that, you know, clinic perspective.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Do you think it's problematic that NARAL sent in non-profit pregnancy centers, fake clients with fake stories, tying up their staff and resources?

LIZ GUSTAFSON: I do not -- I think what's more problematic is that crisis pregnancy centers continue to deceive people and that to uncover this deceit and highlight how harmful it can be to people. That is what I think is harmful.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): You said that this deception was in advertising, that nobody knew that they could or wouldn't be able to get an abortion. But, per testimony, everybody that spoke today said that the clients are all told immediately that they don't offer abortion services.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Which would bring me back to the utility of this Bill, where that folks when seeking services should not have to go through the loopholes of the logistics when going to a center and they should know before they arrive at their appointments, at either center, what services they are going to get, or what they're not going to get, especially during a pandemic.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Well, we also heard from individuals who went to both centers, who said that they were very aware of what each one offered. So, it didn't seem to be a problem. And we haven't heard any testimony from anybody that it's been a problem. There's nobody testifying that that's been a problem. 241 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: So again, in our 2018 report, that is a case study with firsthand accounts from patients. I will refer to that. And I also just want to, again, highlight that abortion is still extremely stigmatized. People do not come forward. And this is something I can empathize with as someone who has had an abortion. I know how deeply rooted stigma can be. And the fear of coming forward is so powerful and it's warranted because ever since I have started sharing my abortion story, I received death threats and I worry about my safety. And so again, I think it's unfathomable that we are asking people who are exercising their right to get private medical care to put their own safety potentially at risk because every year, especially this past year, the, you know, anti-choice extremists have been emboldened in their tactics. And I am called a murderer every single time I am outside of the Hartford GYN Center helping patients. Well, I have some thick skin, no one should have to be subject to that. And this Bill would ensure, like this is a solution. So people don't have to go through those loopholes, through the emotional turmoil and potentially put themselves in like further homes away.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): There's not been any reports of anyone going through turmoil that we've seen. There's been none. And there's opportunity to report and opportunity to report anonymously through DCP. So I don't, I still want to know what the reports are from the individuals that felt deceived and the fact that you keep mentioning they're anti- choice, but not one of the centers have said that they're anti-choice. Not one of them, but you continue to use that term when describing these centers.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Okay. Can you just clarify the question?

242 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): I guess it wasn't a question. It was just a statement.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Okay. Sorry. I just wanted to make sure I answered the question if you had one.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Anyway, thank you for your testimony.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Representative Gilchrest for the second time.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to respond to the exchange about secret shoppers and the way the study was conducted. Mystery shopping is used in a number of industries. and so, you know, it is an above board practice. And in June, 2008, in fact, the American Medical Association Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs released a recommendation on the use of seeker super-secret shopper patients. They said that physicians have an ethical responsibility to engage in activities that contribute to the continual improvement in patient care. And so, again, I think, I don't know if I've made this statement today, but I would reiterate what others have said that I think what Ms. Gustafson has said about her own experience and the experience of others is that in the current climate to discuss having an abortion, seeking an abortion, seeking reproductive healthcare can be unfortunately, very controversial, very heated. And so, to expect that any woman would know about know that there is an agency you can report you and then want to report that they had been deceived while seeking an abortion is just not something I think we're going to see. And so, the secret shopper information we have from the NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut Report is from a Bible study that other industries do. And so, I am looking at the information in that report and the experiences of individuals who used this method of research to go 243 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

into a crisis pregnancy centers across the state to inform, my support for this policy. Additionally, we did hear from a doctor today, and we have other testimony in that report that speaks to the experiences of women here in the State of Connecticut. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Representative Steinberg.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to thank you for your testimony. I'm very distressed by your story of intimidation and threat. Unfortunately, we live in a world today where this is all too common and I find it very regrettable. And let me just end by saying that the absence of a formal complaint does not mean that there's not a problem. Thank you for your testimony.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Thank you, Representative.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much, Gustafson. I would also like to say that I think moving forward, I did not hear other people testify to the fact that they were supportive of all of the options that women have including abortion. So, I think as we move forward, I'm going to make sure that I asked that question, so that we can be clear about where people's stance are on this. But thank you so much, Ms. Gustafson for your testimony. Really appreciate you being here and taking all of our questions.

LIZ GUSTAFSON: Thank you so much. Take care. Bye- bye.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have Elvira De Los Santos. Elvira, are you with us?

ELVIRA DE LOS SANTOS: Yes.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I see you there.

244 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

ELVIRA DE LOS SANTOS: Yes.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you for being here. Go right ahead.

ELVIRA DE LOS SANTOS: Yes. My name is Elvira De Los Santos and I'm a strong opposition to this SB 835. I first came to the Hope Pregnancy Center because I was shaken and Hope Pregnancy Center gave me a strength and helped me whatever I need to have my baby. I came to Connecticut from Florida with nothing and Hope Pregnancy Center gave me everything.

I lost everything because of the pandemic. I called the center the day before, because I was having an emergency situation. Then they gave me the strength and the support I need, you know, to have my baby. I was sad and scared. Hope Pregnancy Center helped me with my baby. They gave me strength, motivation. In the hard time they support me. They came and opened their doors to help my family, my children and myself.

Life is so easy with the Hope Pregnancy Center. I never felt that they were dishonest or they expected with me. They're like a family. They always gave me more, you know, more than I asked them. I call without any, you know, expectations, because in Florida they don't have the kind of center like this, but when I just call to the center, they just help me and I recommend to everybody. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much for your testimony.

ELVIRA DE LOS SANTOS: Okay. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): For taking your time and your child is just adorable.

ELVIRA DE LOS SANTOS: Okay. Thank you.

245 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I'm glad you had a good experience.

ELVIRA DE LOS SANTOS: Okay. Thank you. Next we have Alexis Sher, No. 40, followed by Susanna Bennett No. 42. Alexis, are you here?

ALEXIS SHER: Hi, I'm here.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Welcome. Go ahead.

ALEXIS SHER: Thank you. Senator Abrams, Representative Steinberg and distinguished Members of the Public Health Committee. My name is Alexis Sher. I'm a resident of West Salisbury and I'm also a senior at Wesleyan University in Middletown and a volunteer clinic escort at Hartford GYN Center, now going on four years, I'm here to testify in strong support of SB 835, AN ACT CONCERNING DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING PRACTICES OF LIMITED SERVICES PREGNANCY CENTERS.

I'd like to begin by underscoring the sole purpose of this Bill to ensure that Connecticut residents seeking pregnancy-related care can do so without the barriers of confusion, deception or shame. Contrary to what some legislators have expressed today, this Bill is not about abortion, the separation of church and state or a crisis pregnancy centers' religious beliefs.

It is about ensuring that their advertisements that are put out in the public sphere are transparent and honest. Many of us here today are aware of the Hartford City Ordinance that was enacted in 2017. And before explaining the changes I personally witnessed after the ordinance was passed, I'd like to reiterate that this Bill was found to be constitutionally sound and remains intact today.

After it was passed, I witnessed multiple Hartford based CPCs alter their online advertisements to 246 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

explicitly state that they do not provide a refer for abortions. And I've provided screenshots of this in my written testimony. Like the Hartford City Ordinance, this statewide bill is about transparency and honesty in advertising. If a CPC is honoring this practice, then this legislation will not impact them in the slightest.

Before closing, I'd like to address a final point, which is the increased threat that CPCs deceptive advertising practices pose during a public health crisis like the one we are currently in. Throughout the pandemic, I have tracked CPCs advertisements and social media presence. Many have continued their operations during the COVID-19 pandemic, which I'd like to emphasize is not the problem. The problem is that in a time already wrought with misinformation, deceptive or misleading advertising is yet another harmful barrier that may delay or prevent access to essential health care altogether.

And I've also provided in my written testimony, other screenshots and examples of advertisements that CPCs across Connecticut have posted on their social media throughout the COVID-19 pandemic. The bottom line here is that it is a threat to public health when people are being deceived, delayed or blocked from finding time sensitive reproductive health care. That is why this committee should be doing everything in its power to take preventative steps now.

I'd like to reiterate as well, Representative Steinberg's point about there not needing to necessarily be official complaints for this committee to take action. And quite frankly, I find that statement, that we need to have official complaints in these bureaucratic institutions to take action deplorable, because it is almost like saying that someone that experienced a sexual assault and doesn't want to talk about it, that it didn't happen.

247 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

So, in conclusion, I strongly support SB 835 to limit the deceptive advertising practices of crisis pregnancy centers in our state. And I urge the committee to move forward with this Bill. Thank you for your time.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much, Ms. Sher. Did I hear you correctly when you said you had some examples of what you thought were changes that were made after, people, I guess the Hartford ordinance went in. Is that what you were saying?

ALEXIS SHER: Yes, Madam Chair. I actually have screenshots of those changes in my written testimony that I submitted to the committee.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Do you have it available right now? Could you give me an example of one of them or?

ALEXIS SHER: Sure. I have it actually right in front of me. So, I'm looking at ABC Women's Center. On January 17th, 2019, they have under their abortion section considering abortion. ABC Women's Center provides information on abortion procedures and risks. Because abortion is a medical procedure. It's important that you are educated on your options to ensure that you are making an informed decision regarding your next steps. If you have questions about abortion, our staff is here to help you answer them.

And then on May 16th, so a few months later to the same year, 2019, that was then changed to facing an unplanned pregnancy, if so, you may be considering abortion as an option. Although we do not refer for abortions, we can provide you with important information regarding different types of abortion, as well as associated risks.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Thank you for that. Representative Dauphinais. 248 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, good afternoon, or almost evening. Thank you for your testimony. Just a couple of questions. Are you aware that the ordinance in Hartford has not been ruled constitutional?

ALEXIS SHER: Well, I believe that the ordinance was, or I'm sorry, the lawsuit was not continued and that it was upheld and remains in existence today.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): But not constitutional.

ALEXIS SHER: Okay. Excuse me for misspeaking.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. And are you aware that the case has not been settled by the court? I think that was--

ALEXIS SHER: I was not aware of that. My understanding was that the lawsuit is no longer occurring because it was dropped by the litigants.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Thank you. That's it for me.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Representative. One more question, when you mentioned the changes, do you think if this Bill does not go through, do you imagine that those changes will continue?

ALEXIS SHER: No.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Thank you very much for your time and your testimony.

ALEXIS SHER: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next is Susanna Bennett, followed by Christina Bennett.

249 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SUSANNA BENNETT: Good afternoon. Thank you for hearing my testimony and thank you to all of you for serving in our legislature. I appreciate you choosing to serve our state in this way. I am here in opposition to SB 835. I submitted written testimony, which I'm going to deviate from it briefly. So my written testimony addresses the issue that I feel is at the heart of the bill, which is abortion. And the reason I feel that's at the heart of the bill is because it's a clear specification for how a center would qualify to fall under this Bill. So, that's what my written testimony is about, but when you're 42nd on the list, you usually find there's a few points that might need reiterating. So I'm just going to briefly touch on one point.

We've been hearing the terms today, good actor and bad actor. And hearing that the good actors will not be affected by this Bill. It's intended only for the centers that are in violation, but there already have been contradictions concerning which centers fall into which category. There's been deviations in determining factors guiding what is deceptive and what is not, and how to determine who's a good actor and who's a bad actor. So, we're already seeing these contradictions now while the bill is a proposal. So, I see nothing to sustain the promise that these contradictions will clear up once the bill has passed, if it does. There's nothing to sustain the promise that the good actors won't be labeled as bad actors. And the reason is because it's happened today in this hearing.

An example of this is Hope Pregnancy Center, which my family supports where my sister serves as office administrator. She testified on this earlier today. So we've heard today that Hope specifically has been singled out as a good actor and that there's nothing for them to worry about. But then also Liz Gustafson specifically includes Hope Pregnancy Center in her written testimony as an example of deceptive advertising on Facebook. So already there's been a conflict in who is a good actor and who's a bad 250 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

actor. Hope has been labeled as well. So that's just a major concern that I have, when we're told that the good actors have nothing to worry about, because experience is teaching us that these promises may not hold true. I feel that the bill does not sufficiently address this. And so, I would urge you to vote no on SB 835. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much for your testimony. I don't see any questions, so we'll move on to Christina Bennett. Christina, are you there? You're muted, Christina. There you go. That should work. Nope. You're muted again.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: How about now?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): You're good. Go ahead.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Okay. My name is Christina Bennett and I'm the Communications Director for the Family Institute of Connecticut. And I am testifying in opposition to SB 835. I got involved in doing pro-life work in my twenties when I was a student at Southern Connecticut State University after finding out that my mother was pressured to have an abortion, she was pressured by my father to have an abortion. And she actually went to Mount Sinai Hospital in Hartford, Connecticut in 1981 to try to obtain an abortion. She did meet with the counselor, but she didn't get counsel. A janitor in the hospital hallway saw her crying and asked her a very simple question, which was, do you want to have this baby, that really should have been asked by a counselor, but the janitor asked her that. And my mom said yes. And then she was able to tell the doctor that she wanted to keep me, even though he argued with her saying, you've already paid for this, but she was able to walk out and she held that in her heart for a while, but then she eventually told me, and that got me involved with wanting to help other women who perhaps were also feeling pressured or coerced into an abortion. 251 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

We've heard a lot today about pregnancy centers and even why they exist. And some people have implied, people that are pro-choice or pro-abortion that they exist solely to manipulate women or to try to convince them to keep their pregnancies. But if you look at the history of pregnancy center movements, they exist to create an alternative to abortions. Like I mentioned before with my own mother, she felt like she had no choice. She was being pressured. She was feeling coerced. And so even the abortion clinic, or I'm sorry, the hospital staff worker, wasn't able to really provide her with counsel. And so, it would've been great if she could have gone to a pregnancy resource center and talk to someone. And again, she was asked a very simple question, which was, do you want to have your baby? So we talk about time sensitive delays, which we've heard a lot about that. You know, what's the opposite of a delay. Some people might say that's being rushed and there are many women who feel like they were rushed into choosing abortion. And so we have to be careful when we're discussing, what is it -- what is a time sensitive delay? I mean, I understand that a woman, you know, I've been pregnant before. I understand all of that with there's a certain amount of time to get certain types of abortion. But at the same time, we have to have room for the women who are consenting and choosing to allow themselves to go to a pregnancy center as part of the process. That's part of their process. Someone else asked earlier, why would a woman go to a pregnancy center, not to an OB-GYN? Well, really, you know, we have to ask the women, the thousands of women, why they're choosing to go, and we've heard some women today testify why they choose to go, but regardless of why they choose it's their process. And if there is a delay between them, You know, going to take a pregnancy test and then maybe they do decide to get an abortion two weeks later, they've chosen to pause and to think about what they're doing and to allow the pregnancy center to be part of that process by talking to the people at the center. And so I think 252 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

it's important to understand that a lot of what we're hearing today.

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: You hit your three-minute mark, if you wouldn't mind trying to conclude you remarks.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Yes, in conclusion, I will say that a lot of this has to do with the abortion wars between pro-life and pro-choice people. So, it will not end with this Bill. Even if you pass this Bill, there will be pro-abortion advocacy groups that are still trying to pick apart pregnancy centers, because they're fundamentally opposed to what they do. So it'll be this now and then maybe the next day it'll be, they need to give out information for abortion, like was done with California pregnancy centers, NIFLA versus Becerra, which went all the way to the Supreme Court. This is not the client of pregnancy centers versus pregnancy centers. This is NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut and abortion advocates versus pregnancy centers. And they're trying to use the state elected officials to bully and harass pregnancy centers. And that is wrong.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Ms. Bennett. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Good evening. And thank you, Christina, for your testimony. Can you explain the connection or relationship that NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut has with this Bill?

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Sure. So NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut, as you've heard from Liz who, you know, testified earlier, they are supporting this Bill. It's one of the things that they talk about on their website, on their Twitter and their, you know, social media accounts. They want to it to pass. They are championing it. They've also, you know, endorsed a number of elected officials that are also supporting this Bill. Jillian Gilchrest is the former executive director, she's obviously, you know, connected to NARAL as well and knows about 253 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

what they do. And they are a pro-abortion advocacy group and they have that right to be able to do that, but they're not on biased. So they are coming from the perspective that pregnancy resource centers are fake clinics in general. So really, they can go on and on about what pregnancy centers say or don't say, but they're fundamentally opposed to pregnancy resource centers. So therefore, it's very hard for any pregnancy center leader to trust them or anyone probably endorsed by them because they understand that part of what they do is to expose fake clinics. That's part of their tagline expos fake clinics through fake reviews, like Jeremy Bradley mentioned at the beginning of this long day of testify, through fake reviews, through going in as you know, spies. And this is part of the abortion wars. And so, again, this is not going to end with this Bill If this Bill gets passed.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you for that answer. NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut says pregnancy centers delay the time sensitive healthcare. Can you comment on this?

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Sure. Well, again, that goes back to their perspective. They believe that pregnancy centers are existing to trap women and to coerce them or to convince them to carry a pregnancy to term. They are not truly taking into consideration that as a pro-choice organization, the women who are going to pregnancy centers have made that choice. They have made that choice to go to a pregnancy center. And so, what they're calling a delay, another woman might call part of her process, but even aside from back and forth, again without any facts, even the report, the NARAL Report, these are anonymous testimonies. And we talked about why, women may be afraid. Okay. But they're still anonymous testimonies. So, they cannot be fact checked by a pregnancy center. So, ABC Women's Center, for example, I used to serve at ABC Women's Center as a client service manager. There's an anonymous testimony in that report that does not 254 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

line up with the records on staff for ABC Women's Center. They take records when women come in, they have them fill out forms. And so, if you're gonna put an anonymous report, if you're gonna say, " Tara, a 19 year old woman came into ABC Women's Center in 2015 for pregnancy tests." Even though that's her fake name, you still said 19, you still said 2015 and you still said pregnancy test. So guess what? ABC Women's Center can look through their records and see if there was a 19 year old girl who came in for a pregnancy center, came into a the pregnancy center at 2015 to take a test. And if that's not there, then it's not just like, "Oh, we're not believing women." It's that your report is anonymous and it doesn't line up. We can't even fact check it fully, but what little information doesn't line up with their records. And so, you know, that's part of what NARAL does. They are engaged in pro- abortion advocacy. Again, that's their decision, but they are attacking pro-life pregnancy resources because they are opposed to their fundamental belief. That's never gonna change. It'll never be enough for some people, even on this committee, no matter what pregnancy centers do, make them jump through every single hoop. And it will not be enough because they are opposed to them fundamentally. Thank you.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): If legislation passes, how it would impact the pregnancy centers, if this legislation passes?

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Honestly, it's already impacting them. It's already impacting them because now they're having to fight these lies about their intentions. I mean, I'll just give a very simple example of what I saw on social media. It's very simple. I know a local elected official who African- American guy, he's really great. He was just doing a fundraiser for ABC on, you know, on social media. It was one of those, you know, Facebook allows you to raise money and someone had given a donation and then somebody else jumps into the comment section 255 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

and tells that person, "Hey, don't you know, these are fake clinics. There's you know, there's reports that these places are deceiving women. They're manipulating women." And the other person was like, "You know, I'm sorry. I didn't know that. And so, you know, and I feel bad about giving this donation." And of course, I'm giving an example of that, you know, cannot be fact checked, but I think the way that it can and already is hurting them is like some leaders have said before grants, they're losing grants. They're losing donations. They work with WIC. They work with community health centers. They work with New Horizons, domestic violence shelters. They work with these organizations. And what happens if this Bill passes and the newspapers are the articles or the Hartford Courant picks it up and it says, "Connecticut pregnancy center is found guilty of deceptive advertising." Well, what are the employees going to do at WIC, at, you know, SNAP, at New Horizons, domestic violence shelter, at these different places they're gonna have to now question, what do I believe to be true now? Hopefully, hopefully, if they have a really good relationship with the centers, they could be able to talk to them about it. But we can't say because maybe, maybe a staff worker does, maybe her boss believes it. And now there's a confusion where one person on the team believes that the centers are being deceptive and another person doesn't. And so, it hurts the reputation, because again, these are accusations against them. And these are very strong accusations against them. They have fake doctors and fake medical people that wear a lab coat. They are lying to women. They exist to manipulate women. If that's released in the press as truth, because this Bill passes without any complaints from actual clients, what are women supposed to think. I wouldn't want to go to a place like that if I read it pregnancy centers are these real fake clinics, and people are going to trust your decision, all of you. Even though there's no clients that have testified against the centers, who's gonna know that if they read a Hartford Courant title that says pregnancy 256 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

centers, you know, SB 835 was passed. Pregnancy centers found guilty of deceptive advertising.

You know, the average woman, who's just, you know, she's trying to figure out what she's doing with her pregnancy. And, you know, it's a pandemic and there's so much going on and she reads that now automatically, she might think. Okay. A pregnancy center is deceptive. They've been found guilty of advertising and who's there to tell them, "Oh, you know, not all centers." Because no one on this entire committee has ever said, it's only this center. It's only that center, but it's not the centers. So, the implication is that it's all centers. Otherwise, there wouldn't be multiple pregnancy center leaders here year after year after year fighting this legislation, if they didn't feel like all of them were gonna impacted by this, if they didn't feel like all of their reputations were on the line, they wouldn't be wasting their time. I mean, I don't think it's a waste because this is part of the process of democracy, but still, it is insulting. It is so insulting to say, this is only gonna affect certain centers. When you recognize that multiple leaders are here because NARAL Pro- Choice Connecticut says on their website, that they're all fake clinics. And some of some people who are endorsed by NARAL, you know, fight for that. And it's just really, it's really sad. All we can do with these facts, all we can deal with these facts. We can't go back. Abortion wars have been happening since 1973. 1973, they're not gonna stop anytime soon. Pro-life versus pro-choice. Pro-lifers think one thing about planned Parenthood. Pro-choicers think one thing about pregnancy centers, that's not changing. We're the women -- we're are the women that have been hurt.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Ms. Bennett, can I just ask you, 'cause there's other people in line wanting to ask you questions. So, I want to make sure they get to ask them, but I also want to make 257 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

sure that Representative Dauphinais has if she has any other questions.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): I just had one more, and thank you. I appreciate that Senator. This bill is supported by pro-choice groups and organizations, and it's focused on the advertising and speech of pro-life organizations, as we seek to understand what deceptive language speech advertising is. Is there anything important we should know about the differences in which these two groups view the issue at hand? And that would be my final question.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Yes, I would say that. Again, it goes back to the overall differences between pro- life and pro-choice mindset. So, perfect example would be Liz, what you just said. She continued to say anti-choice, anti-choice. Pro-lifers don't refer to themselves as anti-choice and so, even if she was doing advertising, you know, through NARAL to say this is an anti-choice center, you know, a pro-lifer would feel that that's deceptive. A pro-lifer would say your advertisement through NARAL is deceptive because I'm not anti-choice. I am pro-life. So that's one example.

And again, the woman I mentioned in my testimony, what is, you know, what is a delay and where's the room for a woman having a process to talk about, you know, her pregnancy with someone. So, it's just -- there's two different world views and they are colliding. And that's why it's so scary because let's be real, we are in a very pro-choice state. We don't have parental notification laws. We do not have mandatory ultrasound laws. We don't have parental consent laws waiting period. We have Medicaid paying for abortion on the state level, although it doesn't on the national level because of the Hyde Amendment.

So, we're in a very accessible state for abortion. And so we -- the people who are power, the elected officials, many of them are pro-choice. So 258 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

therefore, it's scary for pregnancy centers to know that they have a completely different worldview and there'll be using that worldview to determine what is deceptive. Pro-choice people will be able to look at pro-lifers websites and say, "I think this is deceptive." And they wonder, will it be because of that bias or will it be because of a fact?

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you so much. I appreciate the testimony and the answers to my question. Thank you, Senator.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Representative. Next is Representative Gilchrest.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Ms. Bennett for being here. In the previous exchange, my name was brought up in a discussion over NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut's relationship to this legislation. And so, I just want to say I'm a proud former Executive Director of NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut. NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut has three arms. It has a 501(C)(4), which does their legislative and political work. It has 501(C)(3), which does their education and research, which is where this report that we've been talking about all day came out of. And then it also has a political action committee, which is the entity where they endorse candidates of which again, I'm proudly an endorsed candidate from NARAL.

The mission of NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut is to guarantee every woman the right to make personal decisions regarding the full range of reproductive choices, including preventing unintended pregnancy, bearing healthy children and choosing legal abortion. So they're not a pro-abortion organization. They recognize and support the right of every woman to make that decision if that's the decision she wants to make. NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut when I was Executive Director and still today is not opposed to crisis pregnancy centers. We do validate some of the amazing work they do in 259 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

communities. I, myself, out of college, worked up in the Willimantic area of Connecticut and know that the crisis pregnancy center up there was a support to women in that community. What NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut is opposed to, and what I'm opposed to is deceptive speech. Because again, the mission of both NARAL and my own personal mission is to ensure that women have access to medically accurate information to make the best reproductive healthcare decisions for themselves. Thank you very much.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Can I comment?

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Sure.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Well, I don't think that the pregnancy center leaders would say that they feel validated by NARAL. I definitely do not think that. And when I was a client service manager at ABC Women's Center, NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut protested outside of the center, like Molly Hurtado mentioned, and they had a number of different signs about abortion and everything else. And they were protesting making a lot of noise to the point where we actually had to shut down the center for the day, because it was so disruptive, that does not seem like validation to me. In fact, I've never in my experience with even going to the public library during a health fair and meeting people from NARAL who were giving out information about pregnancy centers, there was not any validation in those pamphlets. It was pregnancy centers or fake clinics, pregnancy centers manipulate women, pregnancy centers exist to coerce women into having pregnancy centers, pregnancies, pregnancy centers target black women, pregnancy centers are located in underserved areas to target women of color. So, we're missing the validation here. To me, it feels like harassment and bullying.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Representative Gilchrest. Are you all set?

260 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Almost set. Thank you, Madam Chair.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Representative Foster.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Ms. Bennett, thank you so much for being here and speaking today. I have a question, it's sort of, I think, a follow-up or related to what Representative Dauphinais brought up about feeling confident that the practices aren't deceptive. And so, you feel like there's changes financially that are of an impact that would happen to you if this legislation was passed. And I think that I can summarize what you're saying is that you're worried about guilt by association. So, like, if something like this happens, you're worried that the deceptive practices would be associated with you or in your organizations that you feel confident in defending their actions and their behaviors.

So, you mentioned affiliation with -- your previous affiliation with ABC Women's Center. And earlier today, I'm not sure if you heard, but we talked about one of their claims on their website or not claims, I apologize. I don't want to misstate what it says, but one of their directions on their website to a pregnancy reversal or an abortion reversal option, which is not medically sound advice and not clinically appropriate and risky guidance to be giving to folks. Do you feel like that's deceptive and should be changed?

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Well, honestly again, I think it goes back to partly the abortion wars, because I have read that there are States that actually require that information to be given to them. I think Nebraska is one, I believe maybe Idaho and I can -- what I'm saying right now, I'm not an expert on, but I can definitely give the information, but I have read that there are some States that do require some information on progesterone to be given after the RU-486 pill. So, I've traveled all across the 261 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

country and part of that is just telling my testimony about my mom's scheduling to abort me and then walking out. And so, what I've noticed is that depending on the state you're in, it's completely different. Like we wouldn't be having this argument in a pro-life state, so to speak. So, like in Alabama or Georgia, they would never dare to harass pregnancy center leaders in this way. And even to, you know, go over everything on their website and to accuse them of being false, that wouldn't be happening because they really honor and revere the work of pregnancy center leaders. But because we are in a pro-abortion state, then we are dealing with the harassment from people that are -- that have that mindset.

And so, I'm not a medical staffer, you know, I can't give all the information about, you know, abortion pill or reversal, but I can say that honestly, depending on what state you're in, it's gonna be a completely different discussion with the pregnancy centers and the medical community and the elected officials.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): I think that there might be some truth to the fact that these discussions look different based on political leanings. But I do -- I want to stick to, if you don't mind with me hanging for one second.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: That's fine.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): The actual practice that I'm talking about is recommending something that's like off-label for medication and something that has been in peer-reviewed randomized controlled trials stopped as a practice because the repercussions were dangerous for the patients. So, do you feel like presenting that as an option, just this one specific example. I'm not talking about--

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Yes. Yes.

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REP. FOSTER (57TH): I'm not talking about all of the centers. Just that one specific example.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Yeah, can I -- So I guess I will be very vulnerable here and share something that I was not planning on sharing at all, but I guess I will. I just feel like I should, because I think it will help me to answer your question honestly. I have endometriosis and because of that, I had miscarriage and I just adopted a child, but I was not able -- I have not been able to birth, because of my endometriosis. And I've been to a lot of doctors and I think it ties into the pro-life pro- choice thing because every doctor I'd been to, like, I was never diagnosed with endometriosis. They always told me to get on birth control, go on birth control, go on birth control. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go on birth control. Go on birth control. Go on birth control. And it wasn't until I worked at ABC Women's Center and the sonographer said to me, "Karen, Christina, I think you needed to get an ultrasound." And I said, "You know, there's nothing wrong with me because I've been to doctors my whole life. I just have excruciating pain in my periods. I've been hospitalized multiple times, but I've never -- they've never said anything was wrong with me. They just told me to get on birth control. And I took birth control when I was 15, it didn't help." And the sonographer at ABC Women's Center, Carrie said, "I think you need an ultrasound, Christina." And she was the first person to ever say that to me. I did get an ultrasound because of Carrie, the former sonographer at ABC. And then I was able to diagnose that I had endometriosis.

And the only reason I say that is because the abortion pill reversal, I know that's probably not the best word for it is progesterone after taking the first pill. And I have -- this is outside of ABC Women's Center. I know doctors, Dr. Poppy Daniels. I went to see her for my fertility. There are children that are alive today that she put -- she gave progesterone too after the mother took the first 263 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

pill the RU-486. They took the first pill. Then they went to Dr. Poppy Daniels, who I've been to myself and she gave them progesterone and their babies are alive today.

So, I'm sorry, but you know, we're talking studies and we also have experienced. And just like you could put on trial, naturopaths. And you could put naturopaths on trial and say, "the FDA has not approved activated charcoal," and you can make a whole case about the FDA. And there's so many things that different people debate over when it comes to treatments and medical care. And that's probably why no one ever said to me, you know, do natural things. The doctor would've never said to me, do natural things for it, you know, in fact to bring it back to my endometriosis example.

After my endometriosis, some of it was taken out, I asked the surgeon. I said, "Would my diet affect this." Because I know naturopaths have said, if you eat cheese or different things. And he said no. He said to me no. There's no data on that. There's no data that your diet is going to affect endometriosis. And he's a licensed doctor surgeon in Connecticut, but there are others say that there are, so again, you're getting into the weeds, but what you're doing, I'm sorry. God bless you.

But what you're doing and picking on this one thing for ABC and ignoring all the thousands and thousands of women who've been helped by the centers, it's really wrong because this Bill is not about the abortion pill reversal, because if you want to make it about that, then make it about that. Then make a bill that states no pregnancy center in Connecticut should be able to give out information on the abortion pill reversal. But that's not -- that would be clear. That would be very, very clear, but you're not making it clear. You're saying it's deceptive and we're talking about white lab coats and we're talking about pictures --.

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SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Ms. Bennett.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Billboards. So, I'm just -- I am emotional, passionate, but what I'm saying is if abortion pill reversal is all you have, then pass a law about that and let pregnancy centers go on and do the rest of the amazing work they do in a pandemic to help women.

I just don't want to harp on this one thing anymore. The test ---.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Ms. Bennett. Ms. Bennett. Ms. Bennett, I'm gonna -- I just want Representative Foster to be able to speak as well. Thank you.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): I don't -- I don't know if we got to the heart of my question, but I think that we sort of get that. I don't want -- I don't want you to feel like you're under attack in this question. It really is --

CHRISTINA BENNETT: But I don't, I don't.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Okay. So I just -- my final point that I'm going to say is, I think if you have an example of something that is, you know, I think maybe perhaps medically reckless, I think we need to be careful about how someone might think that a place that offers medical advice, guidance, or even pseudo medical advice or guidance might be taking something to be safer than it actually is because it's being associated with that care.

And I am very sensitive to what you're talking about nutrition not often being recommended and advertised in a healthcare center. My doctor is a nutritional scientist. I believe that there's a lot of food and nutrition work that we can be doing, that it would advance health and wellbeing. And I don't believe that's in the general scope of N D typically.

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And I think that most of them don't want to do that work because they have other things to focus on, but I actually think scope is interestingly, a little bit of what this is about is I think that sometimes people think that the scope goes beyond what it is because of what's shared. So I think --

CHRISTINA BENNETT: You're missing part of the like- -

REP. FOSTER (57TH): And I'm so sorry that I brought up upsetting experience.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: No, no, I mean, you're fine. Like I -- that's fine. I didn't expect that that was gonna go in that direction. So, and I'm not usually. a crier, but it's totally fine. It's on record now. So, I guess the world will think that I am a crier, but totally fine, but I just -- I want to make one more point. I'll be brief and I'll also --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Would it be okay if we went onto another because there are some other questions?

CHRISTINA BENNETT: No, I think it would relate to your question. Like --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Okay. Then go ahead then.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: I don't think anyone else has brought this up the entire day. So, I think it is valid. So because abortion is legal. Because abortion is legal and it's, you know, allowed, you have medical societies, you know, people that have opinions that they have to be careful with what they say about abortion because abortion is legal.

So going back to the two camps, for example, so pro- choice advocates Planned Parenthood, for example, medical doctors. They might say something like the most common emotion that a woman is going to feel 266 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

after an abortion is relief. Okay. There might be an example of something they would say based on their studies, their research with women what they believe about abortion.

Then you might have pro-life people, doctors, lawyers, who've done studies and everything else. And they might say, well, we have encountered women who felt regret. We've encountered women who felt shame. So then perhaps the pro-lifers would say, you know, we believe that that could be something like a PTSD or they might label it something like Post- Abortion Stress Syndrome.

And then again, you've got the pro-choice doctors who, they can read different data, they've got different doctors, they've got different lawyers and honestly, they're in charge. I mean, they're more powerful because abortion is legal. And so, they have the medical science community on their side.

And so, you know, progesterone, taking progesterone after the first pill RU-486 pill, yes, right now what you're saying is true, like that is, you know, the medical community would say that that's not valid, but is that - we're still not dealing with fairness though when we're discussing these things, because pro-life doctors, their voices, their experiences are being dismissed. So if I brought in five pro-life doctors --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Can I--

CHRISTINA BENNETT: To debate this, you would still say, well, you know, the FDA or these organizations, because they're never going to have a fair trial because they're not in power. That's definite.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Ms. Bennett, can I ask you a question?

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Yes.

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SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I looked on the website. You work for Family Institute of Connecticut, correct? Because that's--

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Yeah.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Okay. And I clicked on abortion and it says right there very clearly, we're against abortion period. And I appreciate that. I think like that's fair, you know, you're laying it right out there to start. Would you have an objection to any of the crisis pregnancy centers that have the same point of view? I think that's what I'm looking for just to state it --

CHRISTINA BENNETT: They're already doing that though.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Let me finish. Let me finish.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Okay.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Plainly and as clearly as your organization does. Fair enough, because you said something at the beginning that said when women contact a pregnancy center, that they've made their choice. So, I think if there's a difference between --

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Acceptance.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Yeah. So, I think there's a difference between --

CHRISTINA BENNETT: We've made that choice to visit the center.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Okay. Oh, okay. I misunderstood.

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CHRISTINA BENNETT: I'm not making a choice, what they're gonna do with their baby to visit the center.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you for clarifying that for me. I was thinking the other, and I thought, I agree with you. Like if I made my choice and I want support to continue my pregnancy, then I think that they can offer incredible support. And contrary to what you've been saying, I am a pro- choice person and I do appreciate the services that they offer.

And I think in the same regard, if they say clearly, and I think it's fair enough that they don't support abortion. They don't, you know, that's their stance. Then just being clear about that allows a woman to know where they're going in and for what, or if they even want to say, Ms. Bennett, if they even want to say, you know, that we don't support abortion and we'd like to speak to you as to why, you know, we would rather support your pregnancy. You know, I was just saying, like, be clear about it.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: So, what I would say is this you have to understand that we're talking about two different types of organizations. So, NARAL is a pro-choice advocacy group and that's, I think how they would describe themselves fairly. Family Institute of Connecticut is an advocacy group, not just for pro-life stuff. We deal with assisted suicide. Legalizing marijuana, we oppose. No casinos. Homeless --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Yeah, I saw that. You have a lot.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: I mean toward advocacy group, like just like NARAL is an advocacy group.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Right.

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CHRISTINA BENNETT: Pregnancy centers are not Planned Parenthood. Well, they do, they have an arm, you know, of advocacy and politics, but pregnancy centers are, you know, they are -- they brought them, brought into politics, especially in Connecticut because of this legislation. So, you can't ask them to have the same rules apply.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): You don't see. You don't--

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Have FIC. But then you have disclaimers that say they don't perform a refer for abortion, so --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Well, some of them do, but not all of them do, but you're right. Some of them do. And we support them for doing that. And I guess that's just my question. Like, do you have a problem if they're clear to say, you know exactly where they stand. Like we don't support it, but we'd like to talk to you about it, or, you know?

CHRISTINA BENNETT: I think that they honestly are being clear. You know, I go back to what Destenie testified that was so powerful that, you know, she could tell the difference between, you know, going into an abortion clinic and going into a pregnancy center.

And so. I don't think that we should minimize the ability for women to be able to tell the difference or even dismiss the reality that even if a woman doesn't see the website, I mean, we are in a pandemic right now. So, I really don't know who's doing walk-ins. I would hope that people are not doing walk-ins. I would hope that they are at least following.

I mean I'll be real with you. I don't even do walk- ins for restaurants and I don't even do websites for restaurants in the pandemic. I'm calling them on the 270 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

phone. "Hey, are you open? What's your hours?" So, I would hope that --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Then I think if someone calls and is getting honest information, then that's a great thing.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Patients say, you know, you don't refer for abortion. I know I've always --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I'm going to tell you that there's -- I know that there are some places that are not giving that kind of misinformation.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Which place, which centers, do you know?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Well, this morning, someone testified and said, why would a business wait, I wrote it down, because that was sounded interesting. Why would a business advertise what they don't do when they were asked about --

CHRISTINA BENNETT: But again, that comes down to which centers? Because otherwise it's all hearsay. Like if you could tell that I know --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I can go back and look at my notes. This is somebody who testified this morning, who runs a center. And they said, when asked about, why don't you tell people? They say, why would we advertise something that we don't do?

CHRISTINA BENNETT: But who said it?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I'm not saying, I'm not saying that, you know, I think there are really good places that support women and want to be honest about it. And I applaud that because truly I am a pro-choice person. But, at the same time, I don't know that everybody's doing that. And I think that's what this legislation is trying to get to. 271 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: I think part of the issue is that --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): We will have to agree to disagree.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: We know it's enough like the center --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): We will have to agree to disagree, I think, you and I.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: I guess my last sentence will be that --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Okay.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: If that's really what it was all about, that would be one thing. But then we know like ABC Women's Center, for example, and with all due respect to you, you know, Senator Abrams, I was -- I've been here for, you know, a few years. And so, I was there when you went on ABC Women's Center's website during a hearing and you pulled it up and you said, I don't see the disclaimer. This is what you said.

I don't see the disclaimer, if you remember this for ABC Women's Center. And a couple of your colleagues said it is there, it's near the bottom of the page. Then I remember that moment. And so, does Molly Hurtado, who is the former Director of ABC Women's Center because of what you've said that you didn't feel it was in the right position. She moved that higher up on the page because you said, I don't feel like this is in the right position. It should be higher up.

But when she did that, when news media came to the Capitol to interview people about the Bill, some legislators, Representative, Liz Linehan, for example, was one of them who said when they asked 272 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

which clinics are fake, what they said was, well, we know that ever since, you know, since this whole thing has started, people are changing their websites.

And so, we can't win. So, if you're just saying it's all about clearness and just have a statement that says you don't do abortions, ABC has had a statement and that's never been enough. Like, it wasn't enough for you. You wanted it higher, then Molly moves it higher. And then, okay now she moved to the higher and it's proof that like we're deceiving people, we're trying to change things like --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I don't -- I've never accused them individually of that. And I wouldn't until I --

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Other people, other people --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): But I will -- So I will say that we'll have to agree to disagree on that, but.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: Okay.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time Ms. Bennett. I really appreciate it.

CHRISTINA BENNETT: You're welcome. Next up we have Christie, wait, Katrina Orsini, followed by Andrea Kitchen-Walker.

KATRINA ORSINI: Hello, can everyone hear me?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much. Go ahead.

KATRINA ORSINI: Yeah, thank you. So, as you said, my name is Katrina Orsini and I am a resident of Naugatuck and I am here to testify in strong support of SB 835. I am a design historian and museum 273 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

professional with a specialty in reproductive and obstetric design. I am well aware of the amount of deception and coercion present in the history of obstetric and gynecological care.

We cannot let such practices continue in this state. This Bill acknowledges such deception. It searches to create transparency for people who need time- sensitive healthcare. The citizens of the state have the right to and deserve the dignity of healthcare without unnecessary confusion. Crisis pregnancy centers are direct threat to this notion.

Crisis pregnancy centers or CPCs have not been shy about their intentions. They intentionally choose locations in low-income communities of color and near colleges and universities. They intentionally choose municipalities with existing reproductive healthcare providers often even locating themselves down the street or directly across the street from these clinics.

This con they run can be seen through their own words and figure one of my submitted written testimony in which a CPC in Norwich states via social media that they quote place their pregnancy center as close to Planned Parenthood as possible. "Save babies and save souls, especially the abortionists."

The abortionists they refer to here who certainly do not need saving. Our medical professionals regulated by the state's rigorous medical standards unlike the unregulated CPCs. When patients enter these locales in search of medical care, they provide personal private information, expecting the confidentiality provided by HIPAA.

At anti-choice CPCs patient provide confidentiality is not legally required putting people's health at further risk for exploitation. CPCs, whether they purport to care about the needs of individuals are 274 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

an extension of the anti-abortion movement, hidden behind the vernacular and rhetoric of healthcare.

I am proud that Connecticut has always been a model for the protections and rights provided by Roe. It is time to build upon that legacy and keep this state a safe place for people who call it home. An easy way to do so is to ensure no one is misled or lied to when they are seeking medical care. That is all this Bill seeks to do to provide clarity and protect against coercive advertising practices.

My concern and yours should lie with individuals and families seeking pregnancy related care in the Nutmeg State. I understand that any organization can provide some services, but it should be clear and entirely legible what those services are It is a threat to the public health of this state when people are deceived, delayed or blocked and finding time-sensitive and essential reproductive health care they need.

Therefore, I strongly support SB 835 to limit the deceptive advertising practices of crisis pregnancy centers in our state. I urge the committee to move forward with this Bill. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much for your testimony. Can you tell me something that you mentioned, I don't know if it's come up already today, about the fact that they're not under the same HIPAA laws in terms of confidentiality, could you speak to that again, please?

KATRINA ORSINI: Sure. So, basically what I'm referring to is walking into a center, which you think you are protected by laws, specifically HIPAA laws, as someone who is giving up personal private information and if these centers, which are not medical centers are not legislated by HIPAA, then you are not guaranteed right to privacy.

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SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. That's an interesting point that I don't think that we've discussed as much today. I don't see any other questions, so thank you very much for your time and for your testimony.

KATRINA ORSINI: Thank you very much.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have Sherrill Betterini. Mr. Betterini?

SHERRILL BETTERINI: Hello, I'm here.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Great. I hear you, but you're not on camera, if you -- or your video's not up, if you'd like it to be up?

SHERRILL BETTERINI: Video.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Would you like that?

SHERRILL BETTERINI: Let me see here. Let me see here.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): It's okay. But I just want you to know.

SHERRILL BETTERINI: Okay.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): There you go.

SHERRILL BETTERINI: All right. How are you?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Go right ahead.

SHERRILL BETTERINI: I'm Sherrill Betterini. And I can say that I have volunteered at ABC Women's Center for 21 years in multiple capacities. And Great organizations. We try our best to always tell the truth, and nothing but the truth.

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Anyways, I have got a little interest in politics in the past few years and kind of just very on the, in 2018 in January, February, whatever, when we got that first time that came out, it was, you know, it didn't come out of the committee, but there was a big, strong coalition that was formed, the Connecticut Pregnancy Care Coalition.

And we thought everything was fine except for 2019, when HB 77 came out. And that's when I really hit the ground running. And I became very, very interested in it. And I called up the raised Bill and along the hall, I see it is introduced by, sponsored by Jillian Gilchrest. So, I thought, well, that's interesting, so I go and look and I discovered. And I feel, you know, quite an interesting background and I see she was Director Of Against Domestic Violence. Then I see prior executive, NARAL Pro-Choice and I thought, wow. And I thought to myself at that time, wow. That's one way to get your legislation going here. You get yourself elected to, as a legislator and sponsor a bill against the competition. And that's what I thought. And I'm telling you that.

So anyways, I wrote letters, so I got to know who my Senator was and who I representative was. And then it continued on last year and this year, and here we are again. And throughout all these meetings and these letters and the people that thought there's no deception involved here. And I'm just like really, so yet here we are again. So, then I get the Hartford Courant, I get a day late and I still get the, you know, the paper edition. And here it is, Tuesday, January 26th, "The Lawmakers target faith- based crisis centers." And you know what I said, they got that right. They really do. And then the next one down below, "Measure would crack down on deceptive pregnancy info." And then I said to myself, deceptive pregnancy, there it is right there.

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Anybody looking at that automatically assumes that crisis pregnancy centers are giving deceptive information. And so I, this is what I'm gonna read here. So just who is deceived, I would propose it as anyone from the general public who has had no previous encounter with pregnancy resource centers and do not know their good works and excellent reviews.

Yet, if I were them and I saw this Bill made into law, I would automatically assume that we, the public, have been deceived and need governmental protection. We need nanny care.

ALEXANDRA DOROTINSKY: Ms. Betterini?

SHERRILL BETTERINI: Yes.

ALEXANDRA DOROTINSKY: Ms. Betterini?

SHERRILL BETTERINI: Yes.

ALEXANDRA DOROTINSKY: You're coming up on your three-minute mark, if you'd like to complete your remarks.

SHERRILL BETTERINI: Sure. I just strongly believe that the public is being deceived about this. We are not deceiving. There is no reason to have this law made in, and it's just a slippery slope for further legislation being made against pregnancy resource centers. We do good work. There's no reason for this.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. Representative Gilchrest.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Ms. Betterini for coming to testify today. Since you mentioned to me, I thought I should respond. So I was an advocate for years. I still would consider myself an advocate. And time and again, when I would come and testify or work on 278 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

issues at the Connecticut General Assembly primarily on gender based violence, women's health and safety and economic security, I'd be told didn't we do your bill last year, and so I got sick and tired of waiting. And so, I ran for office and I would encourage any woman or man who has a passion for the issues they care about to run for office. And so that's what got me here today. When you talk about competition, again, NARAL Pro-Choice, Connecticut is not a service provider. They are an advocacy organization. They provide education and research and they also have a political action committee. They, as I do have a strong belief that women deserve accurate medical information to make the decision that's right for herself, her family. And so that's really where I'm coming from. That's why I am a co-sponsor of this Bill. And that's why I strongly support this proposal that would prevent deceptive advertising at these centers in our state. Thank you so much.

SHERRILL BETTERINI: Well, like I said, we're gonna agree to disagree. You think we're deceptive? I just -- I feel this whole at the name of the act is deceptive. And so we'll agree to disagree.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): I agree to disagree. And thank you so much for you using your voice to advocate because I think everyone should be able to advocate for what they believe in. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Ms. Betterini. Thank you for your testimony and for being here today and advocating for your position. Appreciate it. Next we have Steve --

SHERRILL BETTERINI: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Aden. Is Steve Aden on?

STEVE ADEN: Hello, Madam speaker. Can you hear me?

279 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I can. Welcome. Go right ahead.

STEVE ADEN: Thank you very much. I appreciate it. My name is Steven H. Aden. I have the privilege of serving as Chief Legal Officer and General Counsel of Americans United for Fife, which is America's original and most active pro-life nonprofit advocacy organization.

I appreciate the opportunity to testify against Senate Bill 835. We oppose the act because it's flatly unconstitutional, since it singles out and targets pro-life pregnancy centers and chills protected speech. It purports to address deceptive advertising, but in reality, it would only subject these pregnancy centers to harassment and burdensome legal fees.

My first point is that SB 835 singles out pro-life and only pro-life pregnancy centers. The act's provisions apply only to a limited services pregnancy center, not to a full services pregnancy center. The sole qualification to be considered a full services pregnancy center and thereby outside the reach of the bill is referring for abortion or emergency contraception. If a facility only refers for abortion or emergency contraception, and doesn't provide any other services, it's not a limited services pregnancy center, even though only referring for abortion or emergency contraceptives would seem pretty limited. But if a facility offers a broad range of medical services, but does not refer for abortion or emergency contraception, it is considered to have limited services. That's an absurd result. And it can only be explained by an attempt to purposely single out pro-life pregnancy centers since they're the only facilities that cannot for reasons of conscience or conviction, provide referrals for abortion or emergency contraception.

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Second. SB 835 singles out and targets pro-life pregnancy centers because of their pro-life use. You've all heard of the Supreme court case of NIFLA versus Becerra in which the Supreme Court explained that the court is deeply skeptical of regulations that target speakers and not speech, and that distinguish among different speakers effectively allowing speech by some but not others. Laws under inclusiveness in this vein raises serious doubts that the government is not just favoring a particular speaker or a viewpoint.

On its face, the act does little to hide its true purpose. The statement of purpose itself declares that the act seeks to prohibit, "Deceptive advertising practices by limited services pregnancy centers." In other words, the explicit purpose of the act is to target pro-life pregnancy centers.

Third, the act is over broad because it goes much further than prohibiting just deceptive advertising practices. It first applies to all limited services, pregnancy centers, regardless of whether they advertise at all. And in fact --

ALEXANDRA DOROTINSKY: Mr. Aden?

STEVE ADEN: Yes, thank you.

ALEXANDRA DOROTINSKY: You're coming up on your three-minute mark. Thank you.

STEVE ADEN: Thank you. And in fact, it applies to any statement by any employee of a pregnancy center to anyone. It's not just about advertising. It's about forcing pregnancy centers to adhere to the state's view. Finally, I note that it opens up pro- life pregnancy centers for targeting and harassment. It provides that the Attorney General can sue a pro- life pregnancy center for violating the act seeking fines and other court orders.

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What it is essentially is the unfettered ability for a state officer, the state's highest legal officer to bring suit against a pregnancy center, coupled with the expansive and undefined nature of the speech. That's different from an administrative consumer complaint process, which the state already has. It's a state in the person of the Attorney General who decrees what is true or false and can directly compel pregnancy centers to comply with that interpretation. That definition of pregnancy --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I'm gonna have to stop you there. Thank you so much. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, good evening. And thank you for your testimony. I have a couple of questions. If this Bill is passed, what legal actions, if any, could be taken against the state.

STEVE ADEN: Thank you for that question. I've been involved in about half a dozen federal lawsuits against States and municipalities for passing these anti-pregnancy center bills. And I can tell you that chances are pretty good that the state will be sued and that it will lose, there, you know, there's, there are hardly any sure things in constitutional litigation, but this is as close as they come. I think you're gonna lose, it's a dead bang loser.

And I'll tell you why there's been a lot of talk about the standard so-called for what is a limited services pregnancy center. What's a pregnancy center" And it goes through, the Bill goes through five or six different criteria for being regarded as a pregnancy center. And among those are, you know, proximity to a health care institution. Do they wear medical attire? Have you asked yourself? What is with this Rube Goldberg system, machine system of strange definitions? Well, it's very simple. It's very clear. The reason why they're so vague and ambiguous is to give the state as much unbridled discretion as the First Amendment term used, as it 282 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

can possibly have in order to have unfettered discretion to go in to court and argue that a pregnancy center is out of compliance with the law. That kind of unbridled discretion, those vague and ambiguous definitions under the First Amendment are unconstitutional because the First Amendment prohibits the state from licensing or having any kind of censorship over a private speaker or a private organization's work based on vague and ambiguous criteria. That's why it's a dead bang loser.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you for that answer. And just -- do you have any idea what the cost to the State would be to defend it?

STEVE ADEN: Well, you heard that in the Montgomery County, Maryland Case, there was a attorney's fee of a million dollars. I've been involved in a number of six figure attorney fee awards. So it depends on how long it goes, but certainly, an exposure well into the millions is quite possible.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you so much and no more questions.

STEVE ADEN: You're welcome.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you Representative. I don't see any more questions. So thank you very much for your time, Mr. Aden.

STEVE ADEN: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next, we have No. 48, Denise Harle, followed by 49 Valerie Garcia. Harle, are you with us? Go right ahead.

DENISE HARLE: I am. Wow. I have terrible lighting. I'm so -- Oh, that's getting better. I'm so sorry. I was in a professional office setting all day and we didn't know it was gonna be this late in the day. So anyway, Madam Chair and Committee, thank you so much 283 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

for your time. I'd like to testify in opposition to the bill. I'm Denise Harle, Senior Counsel with Alliance Defending Freedom. And I specifically want to provide accurate information about the outcome of a recent lawsuit against the city of Hartford after it passed an Ordinance, similar to SB 835.

There's been some talk about this today, but as lead counsel in that case, I just wanted to be sure I could provide all the specifics that the Committee is interested in. So in 2017, the City of Hartford passed an ordinance that contained one provision that was almost identical to the Bill that's being considered today, that prohibited advertising, but also sort of compelled speech and ban speech by letting government officials decide which speech is illegal, but also which omitted speech is illegal. And after more than a year of litigation, the City of Hartford offered to settle the lawsuit, which our client agreed to. And the City of Hartford in the course of the settlement agreed that they would not and cannot enforce the law against our client, who you heard from earlier, very early this morning. And importantly, the lawsuit did not decide whether the law was constitutional, a district court did not rule that that Ordinance was constitutional. It remains an open question, but to the extent that other pregnancy centers in Hartford are operating, like caring families, that law can't be enforced against them either. And to this day, Hartford has not enforced the law against anyone and doesn't know anyone who's subject to the law.

This Bill, however, SB 835 is much more sweeping and who it includes, and for that reason, very problematic. So, I want to talk a little bit about the testimony in Hartford as well, because that's important for considering the constitutionality. The City of Hartford officials admitted under oath that they weren't aware of any woman who had ever been confused or misled or deceived or harmed in any way by a pregnancy center in Hartford. Even though they were reporting to rely on those NARAL reports, I 284 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

would encourage everyone to actually look at the NARAL reports and you will find that there is no evidence that has been confirmed or verified, or even has any sort of specifics about who, what and when and where of actual deception or harm.

Hartford had never received any complaints, didn't know of a single instance of a problem. And even their expert witnesses admitted they had no knowledge of any actual harms connected to any pregnancy center in the State of Connecticut. So, you know, the City even testified that it hadn't bothered to talk with any pregnancy centers before regulating their speech. And I think the lessons to be learned from that litigation is --

ALEXANDRA DOROTINSKY: Ms. Harle.

DENISE HARLE: Yes.

ALEXANDRA DOROTINSKY: You're coming up on three minutes. If you could begin to conclude.

DENISE HARLE: Yeah. Is that no law should be passed that target certain speakers based on view points when there is no evidence of a demonstrable need. The Supreme Court case on this is extremely strong. I was also counseling [inaudible] case and that's included in my written testimony, but the bottom line is that labels and unsupported allegations are not enough to restrict First Amendment rights. It's called viewpoint discrimination. It's a violation of the First Amendment and it's unconstitutional.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much for your testimony.

DENISE HARLE: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I don't see any questions, so thank you. And thank you for your patience --

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REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Sorry, I got. Denise, I have a question. I'm sorry. My hand didn't get up there

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Okay. Representative Dauphinais. Go ahead.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you, Senator. So the City settles it and the client didn't drop it. Is that what you said?

DENISE HARLE: The city offered to settle the lawsuit and so, we did enter into a settlement agreement. We came to terms that the City and our client both agreed to. So that lawsuit is no longer pending. But what I was saying was the court did not rule that the law was constitutional. We never got that far because after all of the depositions, the City actually made an offer to settle the lawsuit.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): How was this case similar to NEF levers is better case similar to NIFLA versus Becerra case.

DENISE HARLE: So, it's similar to NIFLA in the fact that NIFLA was decided on the basis that it was a state law targeting pro-life speakers and attempting to compel speech and restrict speech on their part. And so, the decision was based on that very fundamental constitutional principle, which is the same thing that would be here. And that is the law in California and NIFLA targeted only pro-life pregnancy centers, which is what we're seeing here as well, as if, you know, if a pregnancy center mentions the word pregnancy or abortion, suddenly, you know, the State of California, was it suggesting that that was somehow misleading or deceptive, but it's not the case that you can only mention pregnancy or abortion or offer pregnancy-related services if you're promoting or performing abortion, that is viewpoint discrimination. And so that's the basis we won on in the Supreme court in NIFLA. And I'll note that we did get a million-dollar check 286 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

from the State of California. And it's the same problem with this law.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, what does the settlement mean for this Bill for SB 835?

DENISE HARLE: Well, I think one thing that goes to show is that when you don't have evidence supporting a compelling need to restrict or compel people's speech, you're not going to be able to stand behind that law and, you know, have it enforced. And so, you know, in Hartford, the law is not in effect, they didn't push the lawsuit all the way forward across the finish line to find out if it would stand on the merits.

And I'm curious to see if they'll ever even try to enforce it at all, because it has these very glaring problems. And I think, you know, from my view, this Bill has even more problems because in Hartford, it at least tried to limit the application to centers that didn't have licensed medical providers, supervising all medical services at all times or something like that. And this Bill doesn't even have that. It's simply says, if you talk about pregnancy or you do pregnancy things and you're not performing abortions, you're not advocating for abortion. Then, you know, we've got our eye on you, and we might tell you that you're omitting language that we don't like.

And I think the concern that was raised about mentioning abortion pill reversal being inherently deceptive or misleading is extremely problematic. In fact, that's the worst application of threatened application of this Bill that I've heard and I think that would absolutely invite a lawsuit.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, I mean, when you say this is a solution in search of a problem.

DENISE HARLE: Yeah. I think that's the perfect summary of it. There's no evidence. There's not a 287 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

woman who has come forward who said that she had a problem in a center and there's certainly not compelling evidence. All it is anecdotes and suppositions and vague allegations that are, you know, anonymous with no actual specific facts supporting them. And that's precisely what this Supreme Court cases say, "Can't support a First Amendment regulation."

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, you would agree that there aren't any specific harms connected to any pregnancy center in Connecticut that has been reported.

DENISE HARLE: I've not seen or heard of one including today.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. This Bill targets certain types of speakers, those who don't perform or promote abortion for speech regulation. How do you plan to get around the First Amendment prohibition against restricting speech based on a viewpoint?

DENISE HARLE: How do I?

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Yeah.

DENISE HARLE: Plan to get around it?

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Yeah.

DENISE HARLE: Why would I need to do that?

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): But that would be the argument, correct?

DENISE HARLE: Oh, sure. Right. Yeah. The argument would be what is the substantial and overwhelming evidence that shows that targeting certain speakers is the least restrictive and only possible means of addressing a problem. And the first question the court would ask is, "Okay, what's the problem here. 288 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Let's see the evidence of harms." And the court would want facts and the court would want specifics and witnesses and testimony, and we still haven't heard have any of that. And then the second question by the court would be, "If you can even show harm, show that this is the least restrictive means, show that a very vague law that allows government officials to decide what's a deceptive omission is the least restrictive means to achieve the goal." And there would have to be such a narrow tight fit, that I think this law would very easily fail.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. I guess you kind of answered what I was thinking 'cause I was thinking who gets to decide what speech or omission is considered deceptive. And I think you kind of answered that. It's certainly not us, correct? That would have to be --

DENISE HARLE: Yeah, and it leads to what's called chilling of speech or self-censorship, you may be familiar with when speech is chilled, that in itself is a First Amendment violation or when people are self-censoring, because they're afraid that a law targeting speech is going to subject them to penalties. That is an infringement on free speech as well.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Yeah. And my last question is, I mean, how would a pregnancy center know what kind of speech is considered deceptive either as a statement or by a mission? I mean, how would know? I mean, without -- first of all, there's been no complaints or factual complaints or anything that's anybody that's come forward with a complaint. So I guess that would be my final question.

DENISE HARLE: Yeah. We had the same problem in Hartford and we did not get a straight answer on the record when we -- when I took the depositions of the Hartford officials. It was sort of like, well, we'll know it when we see it. And I think some of the answers we've heard today from other speakers and 289 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

some of the committee members I think are really concerning that, you know, an ad that says pregnant need help or an ad that references the progesterone administration to help save a pregnancy would be considered deceptive. Certainly, the examples in the NARAL Report of what's considered deceptive are, I mean, almost laughable, if it weren't such a threat to free speech, you know, for example, the NARAL report includes a screenshot of a pregnancy centers named, you know, East Hartford Women's Center and it circles the name. Like if you say you're a women's pregnancy center and you're not doing abortions, that's misleading because you're trying to lure women in. And those are very bad examples and I've yet to hear a good one.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay, thank you so much for your time on. That was my final question.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. Representative Betts.

REP. BETTS (78TH): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm a little confused about something. I'm not a lawyer, but I remember this issue first came up because of the dispute in Hartford. Did I hear you correctly say that in the settlement or during getting to the point of settlement that Hartford acknowledged that there was no example of false advertising and that they had not gone to the center itself? Is that true?

DENISE HARLE: That's true. And I know my client offered earlier, but I'm happy to submit to the Committee, all of the deposition transcripts. In fact, I can probably highlight and mark up that part of the testimony. If you all can let me know somehow the proper email address for submitting that I'd be happy to get that in a PDF form to you tomorrow morning.

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REP. BETTS (78TH): Okay. If you give it to the Clerk, she will distribute it to all the Committee Members.

DENISE HARLE: Of course, I'll do that.

REP. BETTS (78TH): So maybe I'm being overly simplistic, but based on what you just said now and what you said led to the settlement in Hartford, I just want to make sure I understand this. Is there, or has there ever been an example where false advertising has taken place and there's been consequences to it? So one, has it even been so, if so, where? And then if that really happened, why would anybody settle?

DENISE HARLE: I have not seen or heard of an example. I asked repeatedly under oath from the City of Hartford's government officials and their expert witnesses. And you would think in defending their law, they would have been really eager to put forward that evidence. And really even the Hartford City Council didn't have any evidence of it. And I went through their legislative testimony extensively. So again, the proponents of a law, like this should be really eager to come forward with the evidence of why we need this law. And we've yet to see that.

REP. BETTS (78TH): Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. Representative Carpino.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Attorney, thank you for offering to send over those deposition transcripts. I actually read three of them on Sunday. I read Attorney Rifkin's as well as two of the other main players while it was snowing out here on Sunday. I think they'd be helpful for many of the members of the Committee because going through all of those, I didn't see any of the 291 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

details that we've been led to believe exist regarding these complaints all day, but I just have one request to you if it is publicly available, when you're sending over those deposition transcripts to the Clerk, I'd love to see whatever documentation was used to conclude the suit, whether it was a signed settlement agreement, whether it was withdrawal, whether it was a detailed release, whether it was consent decree, et cetera, et cetera. I think that might answer some of my questions.

DENISE HARLE: Thank you representative. I'm happy to do that. It's a really short and simple, maybe three page settlement agreement. That's pretty detailed. It is public, and I'm happy to send that to the Clerk as well.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you Representative and thank you for your testimony here today. With no further questions, we'll move on to No. 49 Valerie Garcia, followed by Mary Pollack.

VALERIE GARCIA: Hi, can you guys hear me?

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): We can hear you just fine, please proceed.

VALERIE GARCIA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee. My name is Valerie Garcia and I am a client advocate at Care Net Pregnancy Resource Center in New London. I have been working and volunteering for a total of about four years, and I see too many consistencies behind SB 835, and therefore I am writing to, or I'm reading part of my testimony.

So I am writing and speaking in opposition. As an advocate. I meet with clients who are handed a limitation of services prior to any service being offered. In fact, recently due to COVID-19 in an 292 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

efforts to limit direct physical contact we have been texting this form to clients long before they even stepped foot into our office. I encourage you to read our brief limitation of services paragraph, which can be found attached to my written testimony online.

It starts off by stating that we are a faith-based organization and then continues by clearly stating that we do not offer or refer for abortions. I would like to briefly turn your attention to a portion of misleading information that is clearly stated on the Planned Parenthood website. And it reads, "But be careful when looking for a reliable health center, because there are fake clinics out there that claim to offer information about pregnancy options and abortion, they're called crisis pregnancy centers. And they're run by people who don't believe in giving you honest facts about abortion, pregnancy or birth control."

And my question to you is, is this not deception? Care Net in New London is licensed by the State of Connecticut as a medical facility and Planned Parenthood is then in fact, accusing the State of Connecticut of issuing licenses to fake clinics. Why would lawmakers pass a bill that does not include then, organizations that makes such accusations? And then lastly, I would like to mention, there's been a lot of mention of, you know, time, sensitivity and delay in time-sensitive health healthcare. I would like to mention that as an advocate, I countless of times sit with clients who do not have health insurance, who do not have access to medical care because of their financial status and they do need financial assistance to able to get medical attention. And I've sat with numerous clients, helping them apply for insurance or get on financial assistance to be able to then schedule an OB-GYN appointment. And in fact, I have a lot of Spanish speaking clients who do not speak any English at all, and I've sat with them with OB-GYN 293 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

on speaker phone and help them make these appointments.

So actually, I think that if they were to not visit our facility, they would have definitely been delayed in their medical care. Thank you for your time.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for your testimony. We really appreciate it. Are there any questions or comments? If not, thank you for your patience. We really do appreciate your taking the time to testify today. Next up, we have Adrienne Greto. I understand Ms. Pollack is not available, followed by Ernestine Holloway.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Hello, everyone. Can you see me? Can you hear me? Yes. Okay, great. It's great to see you all again, Representative Steinberg. Three years in a row, here we are. Good to see you. Thank you everyone. I'm glad this year I'm not testifying at 11:30 PM. We're at a more reasonable hour. I did submit a written testimony, but I do think that addressing some of the things that were mentioned earlier on is a better use of my three minutes. So I'm just gonna dive right in.

Representative Linehan earlier was speaking with Jeremy regarding fake reviews and drinking bottles of wine. And so, I actually found, exposed these clinics' website, and I know somebody had mentioned earlier, but I just want to mention it again. And it States clearly pro tip reviewing fake clinics is way more fun when you're doing it as a team, we highly encourage you to grab a bottle of wine and get your feminist club together to organize a fun review. So they're encouraging it. And then there's also pictures on Twitter that we've found of people taking pictures of their wine and saying they're excited to review and hashtagging exposed fee clinics. And so, I'd be happy to share those screen grabs with anyone. And I can actually screen share 294 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

later. I don't know if that's. Appropriate, but I can also screen share. So that's number one.

Number two is Representative Lanoue, you had asked Jeremy earlier about being faith-based. And so, I want to be clear that. I work for Hopeline. I'm the Executive Director at Hopeline Pregnancy Centers. We serve Bridgeport, Danbury, and Stamford, and we are a faith-based organization, religiously affiliated, and it actually says it right on the front page of our website under the compassionate care section of the website. So I just wanted to make sure that was clear.

Representative DeGraw, you had talked about confusion with scrubs and white lab coats and things like that. So I just wanted to let you know that at Hopeline, we wear name tags that specify the positions that we have, and they specify our credentials. So I'm a certified nursing assistant in the State of Connecticut. So, you'll see on my name tag. It says, Adrienne Greto, CNA Executive Director.

There are several types of procedures done in our centers. Ultrasounds and pregnancy tests are two of them, are the two procedures that we do and both potentially cause contact with bodily fluids. So our medical staff really should be wearing scrubs or lab coats sometimes our professional like administrative staff, there are also nursing or nursing assistants. So they will wear business casual clothing, and then a white coat on top to protect that their business clothes while they're doing a procedure. So I just wanted to make note of that.

Secondly, or thirdly, fourthly, I don't what number I'm at. If anyone would like to see how our patients, what our patients think of us, you can certainly look at our Google reviews. We all have. stellar Google reviews at Hopeline, which I'm so grateful for. So just take a look at that. 295 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Alicia Di Leo, I believe that was her name referenced earlier about activists outside of pregnancy centers. So, we can't control what activists do. I think Christina Bennett specified we're not an activist group. We are a pregnancy care center, so we can't control what protesters do and what activists do. As members of the Connecticut Pregnancy Care Coalition, our standards require that our staff and volunteer --

ALEXANDRA DOROTINSKY: Ms. Greto.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Yes.

ALEXANDRA DOROTINSKY: Ms. Greto, you're coming up on the three minute Mark, if you'd like to start concluding.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Okay. So we can't control activists. I just -- I want to refer to ectopic pregnancies. Actually, I'm just gonna skip that. Senator Anwar mentioned that we are not a prenatal care facility and I just want to be clear that we are not prenatal care centers, just so everyone knows regarding delaying care. It's really important that women get into prenatal care as soon as possible. But often we're finding that women can't get into care until they're 10, 12 plus weeks pregnant. And so, we usually see women six, seven, eight, nine, and help them confirm that pregnancy, so they can bring that literature and those confirmations all the way to their prenatal care providers. And I have a lot more things to say, but I think my time's up.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Well, it is Adrienne. It's great to see you. You bring a lot of energy, which is kind of nice to after the number of hours we've already put in today.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Thank you.

296 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): But you have answered a lot of questions and there are further questions for you starting with Representative Dauphinais, followed by Senator Hwang.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Thank you.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have one quick question. And if it's been asked before, I apologize. When clients and patients call and ask for an abortion, do you have a protocol for staff to follow regarding how to answer, because that has come up quite a bit in terms of how it's dealt with? And I just wondered, is there a standard protocol that everybody would know how to answer that question? Thank you. That's my only question.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Yeah. Thank you. Representative Dauphinais. Yes, actually Representative Kimberly Fiorello came and visited our center Monday, and I was actually able to able to show her all the literature that includes the protocol, that if we have someone calling looking for an abortion, we have language that every volunteer and staff member, who's answering phones in our center are trained in, in order to speak truth about the services we offer and the services that we don't. We hold truth to a very high standard at Hopeline. And again, if any representative would be willing to visit, I know Representative Steinberg you're right around the corner from me. I've invited you several times. I've come to your office hours to invite you. So if you actually come to our center, I'd be happy to show you all of that literature.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you. Appreciate it.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): And you're absolutely right, Adrienne. You may have to wait till the end of COVID, but--

297 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Yes, I would like to wait till the end of COVID, but the door is always open for you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for that. Thank you for the reminder. Senator Hwang.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair. And Adrienne, you are indeed a burst of energy. As we go into our ninth hour, I've been listening to a lot of exchanges and in some cases, very emotional, very testy at times, but I must say you're the Executive Director, do you ever greet visitors and serve as liaison when people come into your facility?

ADRIENNE GRETO: Thank you for your compliment. You should have seen me at 11:30 last year. I was all hyped up and ready. So, I appreciate that. Yes, I do frequently greet our patients and clients if one of our other medical staff or other leadership staff or volunteers or unavailable, maybe they're on the phone or preparing something else, I do regularly read them. Yes.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): And I think it's important to note that as we've heard many times, this is a very challenging and emotional time for individuals and uncertain time for people that go in to your facility. And you're kind of warmth and extending is reflected. And as the Executive Director, do you try to provide that kind of emotional as well as comforting support? Because you reflect that and if that's an extension, I think you do a fantastic job in allaying some of the concerns that I've heard and some of the portrayals -- you're a bundle of energy and a positive energy.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Thank you. Thank you. Yes. I definitely try to do that. You know, we are a faith- based organization and my faith is really important to me. And so something that I've learned as a pillar and part of my faith is compassion and compassionate care in every sense, whether it's greeting someone, answering the phone, helping a 298 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

patient, get into prenatal care, providing them with our long list of referrals, whatever it may be, I definitely try, or working with donors, speaking with representatives. Yes, I do try really hard to bring that compassionate energy with me.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): And with that energy, and I think in reading testimonies from the past where you submitted it, it feels like you're doing this again and again, and again, and many of the other people testifying it, does it get somewhat frustrating to feel as though that you're getting picked on?

ADRIENNE GRETO: Yeah, I definitely do feel like that. And I am grateful for the acknowledgement of that. Again, this is the fourth time this has come out. And so, this year we're on zoom, but years past, you know, I live in Stamford, Connecticut, or actually I live in Norwalk, but it's a far drive. So, hard for early in the morning and really late at night. And so, it is a challenge to have to fight this. This year, because we're on Zoom, I was able to kind of work on other things, but again, it just really takes my attention and we're blessed to have three pregnancy centers. And so, we have a lot of staff that do require my attention and do need me. So it does take me away from them in areas where they need my assistance and things like that. Yeah.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): Thank you. And on a closing note, and you seem so focused and so channeled when you said you are a faith-based organization and it seems that it's a principle and it's a value and it's a guide for you. And can you kind of share that a little bit how important faith is and recognizing that as a guiding force in the work that you do as part of a mission?

ADRIENNE GRETO: Yeah, absolutely. So, many people know, but some don't, but, you know, we are a Christian organization and so that means that we are held to biblical standards, biblical standards of truth, biblical standards of compassion, biblical 299 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

standards of love. And so that is so important to us and how we actively serve our community, it is a -- it's a foundation for my life. And so, it is hard to feel like our religious freedoms are being attacked. It is hard to feel like we're not being attacked for believing that way. And so, I think I answered your question.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): You did and you demonstrated by the enthusiasm and your willingness to share your thoughts with us and the work that you do every single day. So, thank you for joining us. Thank you for injecting a little bit of, a lot of energy for us and then listening on a very long day. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to be able to ask some questions.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Senator. Representative Klarides-Ditria.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Adrienne, thank you for coming today. It's refreshing to see you with such passion and energy and it's getting us all, I think, invigorated going on nine hours of testimony. So thank you. And thank you for what you do. A few questions for you. How long have years, months, whatever have you worked for Hopeline?

ADRIENNE GRETO: So Hopeline was established in the eighties, but I have been at here -- before I was born. But I have been at Hopeline, it'll be my fifth year coming up in November, 2021, so four and a half years now.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): And then in those four and a half, almost five years, have you seen a change in your website as far over the years to accommodate more transparency for women?

ADRIENNE GRETO: No, all we've done is given ourselves a facelift as far as the way it looks. But actually, I did add a while ago that we are faith- 300 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

based-- No, let me retract a little bit. I did add that we are faith-based on the front page of our website. We find that a lot of women, their spirituality is very important in the decisions that they make. And so, we want them to feel that they have a place to feel comfortable to discuss that. And so, I want to make sure that they know that that is who we are and that we can help them with that. So I did add that recently, actually. Yes, but otherwise we've just gotten a facelift and we're gonna get another one soon. We got a new logo, so it'll look different, but the content will be the same.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): I like your old logo. I think it looks great. And then if a woman comes into your center and talks to one of your counselors or whomever, they see first and says to them, you know, I'm coming here, I'm looking, I'm pregnant as far as I know, and I want to have an abortion. What's the next step that happens?

ADRIENNE GRETO: Yeah. So, first of all, we have pretty strict standards at Hopeline that you, only medical professionals can speak to someone who is asking about abortion. Only medical professionals who hold a license in the State of Connecticut can share abortion information. So that's nursing -- certified nursing assistants, nurses, LPN, medical assistants, and above. So that's first of all. But in the paperwork that they sign and actually Representative Fiorello took a copy of it right on the limitation of services that explains like three really important things. And they're all in bold. The first one says that we do not perform or refer for abortions. The second one says that we are peer counselors and don't offer professional counseling services. And the third one says that we are not a prenatal care facility, so they can't get prenatal care at our center. So, we are very upfront and honest about what we offer, but if a woman is looking for abortion, again we'll say, you know, we don't provide a referral, but we can give you a 301 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

pregnancy test and an ultrasound to confirm that you are in fact pregnant. And then we can talk about your options with you to see what you can do next.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): Which I think in my opinion is waterfall. Like we've been talking about for the last nine hours, it's giving you your options.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Yeah.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): So, you're saying to them, "Yes, you have, if you want to an abortion, that's fine. We can accommodate you, but here are some other options." And then that adult or that, that woman or girl would then have to decide, do I want to stay here and take one of your options or is this not for me and I need to go somewhere else.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Right. And honestly, we do have women that come to our centers and they have gotten a confirmation of pregnancy. They know how far along they are based on the ultrasound. We determine if it's intrauterine versus ectopic and we have actually diagnosed ectopic pregnancy that Planned Parenthood has previously missed. We had a patient come to us looking for an ultrasound, she got an ultrasound and we sent her right to the emergency room. She had an ultrasound at Planned Parenthood the day before, and they actually missed her a topic. So thank God, she came to us for a second opinion because it saved her life.

But, you know, we give them all of these options and they can make the choice that women are intelligent and smart. And there are some women who do choose to get an abortion after coming to Hopeline. And that's okay. We're still here for them. I know Representative Fiorello shared earlier that we offer recovery care for abortion, for sexual trauma and for miscarriage and pregnancy loss, stillbirth and things like that. So we are still there for them, no matter what they choose. 302 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): Exactly. And I think that's the most important thing we need to take out of this. These places, no matter if you're going to a faith-based or Planned Parenthood, it's giving a woman an option. And that's what we want. I want everybody to know all those options upfront and you choose them or don't choose them. But thank you so much for your testimony. I appreciate it.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Thanks so much.

REP. KLARIDES-DITRIA (105TH): Thank you. Thank you, Mr. chair.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. Representative Kavros DeGraw.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Thank you so much. Adrienne, thanks for being here. Everybody else's referenced your energy. So, I don't think I need to at this point. But since you brought me up, I just wanted to weigh in a little bit. You mentioned that you are a faith-based organization. I myself am a Christian and certainly I have my own Christian views that I'm pro-choice. I guess the concern is, is that a lot of Christian organizations, especially when you say you're guided by the Bible guided by faith, you know, just concerning, it's good to hear that you're supporting women, whatever do I say make, but I'm just curious when you mentioned the language that you use, like if someone call in and then you say, you know, we don't provide abortions here. Is there a pause for the woman to respond and say, okay thank you. Or do you immediately go into, you know, what the other options are for her in terms of keeping the baby, adoption.

You know, obviously we want women to have every choice and in a lot of cases it's very young women, women who are young in their lives, college students, sometimes high school students. So I'm just curious how that conversation goes. 303 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Sure. Thank you so much for your question. So typically, when women call, we don't go through all of their options, all the things that they can do with their pregnancy. What we do is we let them know that we don't offer abortions, but we do X, Y, and Z pregnancy testing, ultrasound and options coaching, if that's something they're interested in and that's where it usually -- that's where it ends. And then they have the option to decide, do I want to come in and actually schedule an appointment? Or should I go somewhere else?

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Okay. And do you get a lot of walk-ins or do they, I mean, I know now COVID, but say prior to COVID, would you get a lot of walk-ins of people looking for information and that sort of thing?

ADRIENNE GRETO: So we actually have three centers and all three centers are very different. Our Stamford center is pretty hidden. So you actually can't see it from the street. And it's very helpful for our patients who don't want people to know that they're pregnant and they feel like it's private and a safe place for them to go. So our Stamford center, it really doesn't get pre-COVID, They really did not get many walk-ins.

Our Bridgeport center gets the most walk-ins, I would say. Planned Parenthood actually moved behind us in 2019. We've been on our location for 13 years and they decided to move behind us. And so, because of that, we actually do get walk-ins, more often because they moved close to us. But again, when they walk in a lot of times, they'll say, "Oh, I'm looking for a Planned Parenthood," and we'll say, "Okay, well we're actually Hopeline, and this is what we do. If you're interested in our services, you know, we'd be happy to accommodate you. Or if they can't handle a walk in at the moment, you know, we'd be happy to schedule you in the future if you'd like." 304 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Okay.

ADRIENNE GRETO: So our Danbury center is super busy. We have a wonderful relationship with the federally qualified health clinic in Danbury. And most of the women actually who are looking for prenatal care at, it's called CIFC, looking for prenatal care at CIFC that health clinic, are referred to us first. Their doctors there actually prefer that they come to Hopeline first and get their initial pregnancy tests and ultrasound. And those doctors then take that ultrasound report and use that to inform their, the next prenatal care appointment, appointment that they would schedule for those women. So they're so busy with helping in that really important partnership, but they don't have the capacity for walk-ins.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): And I guess, because you did bring up the Bible guiding the medical care, like which version of the Bible do you use for that? Because [inaudible] diverge on that, using the Bible to work towards medical care.

ADRIENNE GRETO: So what I mean about using the Bible for medical care is, I don't know if I said medical care or if said care in general. What I mean is the compassion that Jesus calls us to is what we use to guide us. So that's nonjudgmental. It's attention, you know, when there's a patient in front of me or we're doing a lot of Zoom now, when there's a patient on Zoom, you know, we're focused and attentive to the patient's need, we're listening. That compassionate care has come through listening, so we can hear the needs that they have and make those referrals if they need housing, if they need insurance, you know, all of those things, that's what I mean about how the Bible informs what our standards of care are.

305 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. KAVROS DEGRAW (17TH): Okay. I'm glad to have your clarification. Thank you so much for being here.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Absolutely. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. I should add that you probably got a little sort of feedback or something on your lines. So, if you have another question, you might want to check that out. Any other questions. If not, Adrienne, thank you again for being here. We really appreciate it. Thanks for your patience.

ADRIENNE GRETO: Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): We're onto our next, which would be, I believe No. 54, Maggie Strunk, followed by 55 Arthur Calef. Maggie?

MAGGIE STRUNK: Yes.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Please proceed.

MAGGIE STRUNK: Yup. Okay. Thank you. My name is Maggie Strunk and I'm the Client Services Director of Hope Pregnancy Center in Cheshire. And I am testifying in strong opposition of Bill 835. HBC is being targeted as a part of a national campaign to discredit and eventually shut down organizations that assist thousands of pregnant women and their children every year in our state. Nationally while NARAL has succeeded in obtaining support, most, if not all of the resulting laws have been struck down by the courts, as we have talked about earlier today. They have tried to use unsubstantiated facts and hearsay to make pregnancy resource centers such as us appear deceitful and manipulative.

Since 1985, Hope Pregnancy Center has offered non- judgmental free, confidential support and material resources to women and their families. Every single woman who calls, receives information resources and 306 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

a verbal disclaimer that we do not perform nor refer for abortions. Every single client that receives our services sign off on a form that states that they fully understand this.

From a simple Google search, anyone can clearly see this disclaimer posted wherever abortion is mentioned on all social media platforms and our website. HBC clients know what we provide before stepping in the door. We do not spend all of our time judging or shaming women for their current pregnancy decision or previous pregnancy decisions as NARAL often accuses all pregnancy resource centers of being guilty of.

We are here to offer support with gentleness and compassion. Many of our clients who have received such care can testify to this. We have not received one single complaint from anyone claiming that they were deceived by our center. I've personally spoken with hundreds of women, some pregnant and some post- abortive and some who are moms that are just struggling, especially financially during the pandemic.

If we were deceptive in any way, would we be getting referrals from 211, WIO, DCF, Yale and St. Mary's Hospital, social workers, high school teachers and guidance counselors. Why does the state refer women to our centers and then try to pass a bill to attack and manipulate how we run our organizations? Organizations, I might add that are no cost to the state because they are privately funded.

If we demonstrated shame or stigma, would our clients recommend others to the same centers, would groups such as the local food pantry, local high school group, girls scout organizations and Cheshire Community support our moms with material resources. And they believe that I am giving our clients information over the phone. This Bill raises too many questions for those on both parties and answers 307 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

none of them. This is why I urge you to vote no in opposition of Bill 835. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for your testimony. Are there any questions or comments? Seeing none. We're a little tired out here. Thank you for your testimony. Really appreciate it. Moving up next to Arthur Calef, followed by Lauren Marazzi.

ARTHUR CALEF: Hello, my name is Arthur Calef. I'm from Lebanon, Connecticut. I'm gonna testify today in strong opposition to Bill SB 835. There's a number of serious problems with this Bill that others have raised and will raise later today. But I want to talk about two fatal gaps and the logic being applied to this proposed legislation.

I think we can all agree that this is an act or supposed to be an act regarding advertising practices, since that is spelled out in the Bill's title and that a majority of this community considers the proposed legislation to be an example of good legislation. I would insist then that if this is truly good and necessary and just legislation, it should be applied to the advertising practices of all the businesses across the State of Connecticut.

If this isn't legislation which can be expanded to apply to all the businesses in Connecticut, then the only valid reason for applying it exclusively to one small group of Connecticut nonprofits can be that the committee must have enhanced some solidly documented proof of flagrant violations of ethical advertising practices by members of this group. If no solid proof of flagrant advertising practice violations by Connecticut crisis pregnancy centers can be produced and so far, this seems to be the case, then this is an example of an unnecessary law.

I believe it is also an unjust law. The late Martin Luther King Jr. in his letter from Birmingham Jail defines an unjust law as a code that a numerical or 308 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

powerful majority group compels a minority group to obey, but that does not make binding on itself. Dr. King's remarks, of course, were addressing laws that made racial segregation legal, but they're equally applicable to this case where the majority for- profit pro-abortion lobby is pushing this unjust law to be hung around the neck of the minority nonprofit pro-life crisis pregnancy centers with no consideration for the honesty or lack thereof of any of the advertising practices of any other businesses involved and providing pregnancy resources or abortion services in Connecticut.

If you pass this Bill out of Committee, you as legislators will be violating your ethical mandate to pass necessary and just laws that treat all sectors equally that allow each business entity to defend itself on the same legal playing field as any other, and to play by the same set of rules. I urge you all not to vote this Bill out of Committee. Thank you so much for your time and consideration.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much for your testimony. I don't see any questions at this time, so I'm gonna thank you and you have a nice evening.

ARTHUR CALEF: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next up is 56 Lauren Marazzi, followed by 57 Lisa Maloney.

LAUREN MARAZZI: All right. Can you see and hear me?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Welcome. Yes. Welcome.

LAUREN MARAZZI: Thank you. Representative Steinberg and Senator Abrams, and distinguished Members of the Public Health Committee. My name is Lauren Marazzi and I am a fifth year MD PhD student. I live in Farmington and I'm here to testify in strong support of SB 835. And I remain deeply concerned here in my 309 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

third year that without the legislation of SB 835 pregnant persons who wish to make an informed decision about their pregnancy options will be at risk of being misled due to the deceptive language use in advertising by crisis pregnancy centers.

And I am, again, encouraged that our advocacy efforts have changed some of the deceptive advertising practices of some of these limited service pregnancy centers. But I want to reiterate that these deceptive advertising practices in regards to pregnancy options counseling is detrimental to both pregnant persons and healthcare providers and the state should be active in preventing the occurrence of these advertising practices.

And in addition, I just want to note that there is submitted testimony this year from the American Civil Liberties Union that SB 835 does not infringe on First Amendment rights. I say you should definitely check that out.

In a more medical note, I want to touch on time sensitive nature as we've brought up throughout the day. And just for background, by the time a woman realizes she has missed her menstrual period, which is usually one of the first signs of pregnancy, she's already five to six weeks pregnant. And there are numerous reasons, medical and social, why a woman might not find out she's pregnant till much later than that, even up to, or past the first trimester mark.

And this is important because in Connecticut, the law prohibits abortion beyond the date of viability, which is 24 weeks and this isn't the only time constraint for abortion care. If a woman desires a medication abortion, when and where she can take pills in the comfort of her own home, she's only able to do that before she reaches 10 weeks of gestation and once passed that mark the only options for care, and require more invasive procedures for 310 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

abortions. And each week that increases the complication risks and also the cost, which can further restrict a woman for getting the care she wants.

And there's many reasons for a person due to their job, their accessibility to transportation. I have limited time to make one of these decisions with a healthcare professional, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic. And these are the integral reasons that highlight why time is of the essence for women seeking abortion care and then the stress and fear that may come along with an unplanned pregnancy.

A pregnant person may not realize that a crisis pregnancy center does not provide abortion or refer to a center that does provide abortion. Any deception in that advertising that a woman may encounter from a living services pregnancy center could prevent her from accessing safe abortion care altogether.

Just to close, in medical school, we are extensively trained and tested and assessed on how to communicate with patients effectively to build a strong patient provider relationship and enter into informed decision-making paradigm in our training goal. And our goal's provider is to accurately explain all options for pregnancy and provide all resources so that our patients feel empowered to make that decision that is best for their health and their lives.

And performing this action requires education, trust, empathy and honesty --

ALEXANDRA DOROTINSKY: Ms. Marazzi, you hit your three-minute mark, if you wouldn't mind concluding with your remarks.

LAUREN MARAZZI: Sure. Thanks. The interception of this relationship potentially by a crisis pregnancy 311 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

center is unethical and places an undue burden on patients seeking comprehensive reproductive healthcare. So I strongly urge you to move forward with SB 835. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Go ahead, Representative.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Sorry. I was temporarily knocked out when the electricity went out. Let's see. I do not see any questions. Thank you very much for your testimony today, Lauren. We appreciate it. Next up is Lisa Maloney, followed by Marian Landry.

LISA MALONEY: Good evening all. And thank you for sitting here all day and listening to all this testimony and the amazing dialogue and questions that I've listened to since 9:00 AM. My name is Lisa Maloney. I'm the Executive Director of Care Net Pregnancy Center in New London and the President of the Connecticut Pregnancy Care Coalition. I have been employed with Care Net Pregnancy Center since 2000. I think I'm the longest Executive Director in Connecticut right now. And our center has been open for 27 years and going, and has served over 10,000 women in the 27 years that we have been serving women in Connecticut. And in those 27 years, we have always been upfront about the services we provide and the services we don't provide. That was one of the first things that I learned when I came on is that you are always upfront about, we don't refer or perform abortions.

In the last few years, we've all been coming back and to the Capitol and now on Zoom to talk about the accusations of deceptive advertising. And I find it interesting that the good actors, bad actors conversation just keeps coming up. And one of the things is that, you know, you need to have a disclaimer on your website, but yet they were all pro-choice Connecticut put out in their 2018 report. 312 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

The top half of my website screenshot leaving off the bottom half that says we do not refer or perform abortions. And in that they put that under deceptive advertising. I think that was pretty deceptive of them calling my site deceptive when I clearly had that at the bottom of my page.

The other thing is that they handed out one of our brochures that they had taken from our office. And they had circled our services on the back, referring to them as being deceptive. And that is we offer medical referrals. Do not other medical offices offer referrals to other medical practices? Our pregnancy center is a licensed outpatient clinic. You heard from our nurse manager last year, you were able to listen to our Medical Director.

And then just today, they talked about our Facebook ad that was run April 20th. Again, the ad talked about COVID concern about pregnancy. Again, medical professionals would answer that question. Is it deceptive to offer to have conversations with clients who come in? I have submitted the screenshots of the NARAL report and a link to our previous website, which they cited because we too gave our site an upgrade not because we were ashamed of what we had put on there, but because it was just time.

And -- I'm sorry. We have reached out countless times to many people to have be a part of this conversation. And each time we've been told that we had nothing to say that they wanted to hear. And that is a direct quote from some of the people from NARAL. We would like to sit --

ALEXANDRA DOROTINSKY: Ms. Maloney, you hit your three minute, if you wouldn't mind trying to conclude remarks.

LISA MALONEY: Absolutely. We would love to sit down and have conversation. We would love to sit down and have dialogue. We respect that women have three 313 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

choices when faced an unplanned pregnancy and we support them no matter what they choose.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you for your testimony. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I've just one quick question. What is your protocol if the client chooses abortion? Can they return for services? That's my one question. Thank you.

LISA MALONEY: Okay. Yes, so when we sit in front of that client, we do explain to her that we recognize that she has three choices and that no matter what she chooses, she is welcome to return. She can come back for subsequent pregnancy. She can come back for conversations. I, myself am a licensed marriage and family therapist, and certainly can attest to some of the leftover feelings that some women experienced after having an abortion. So we offer that option for them to come back and let's work through some of those emotions that might be left over.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Thank you so much.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. Senator Somers.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Yes. Good evening. And thank you for testifying once again. I just would like to, for people to know that because you are a certified health care provider, you're inspected by DPH, is that correct? Or you have an inspection that comes in?

LISA MALONEY: Yes, we do. I believe it's every, I think it's three years, the nurse manager is the one that handles that. But it is on a regular basis and at any given time they can come in and do a spot inspection. And during that time, you know, they go 314 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

through the entire building and they check out, you know, our client records, everything.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): So if you are a certified healthcare provider, do you do prenatal, you know, like vitamins and assessments there? Or do you do what we've heard other pregnancy centers do where they do like pre -- I guess pre prenatal, you know, information and then you refer them off to a clinician in the area. And do you also help the women, um, that maybe not have insurance, like find the social services, that kind of stuff, even though you're a certified healthcare provider, you're still providing those types of services, is that correct? Or is that not correct?

LISA MALONEY: Nope. It is -- It is correct. We do a few more services than some of the other centers and that we do STI testing and treatment for chlamydia, gonorrhea, syphilis, and the rapid HIV testing for the State of Connecticut. And so we work with the state's agency in getting the rapid early testing for HIV. And we do give them prenatal vitamins. We do the early ultrasound diagnostic tests.

One of the things that we're finding during COVID is that many are calling us and saying they cannot get into the OB-GYN until close to the second trimester. And they're anxious, especially because of COVID. And so, they want to come in and, and just kind of feel good and comfort about their pregnancy and that the pregnancy is viable. So, we would do the pregnancy test and ultrasound, give them the prenatal vitamins, and then many times make that phone call with them to one of the local OB-GYN to make sure that they get their prenatal care immediately.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay. Just a couple more questions, because I know people have been here a long time, so that is done by somebody who works in your facility, who is a clinician, like an APRN or a doctor I'm assuming, is that correct? The prenatal, 315 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

the vitamins and the -- I know we heard that an ultrasound tech or a certified sonogram person has to do the ultrasound, but you have a doctor who is the director, is that correct? So this is being done by healthcare professionals.

LISA MALONEY: Yes.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): And then my second question just quickly is, has your facility received complaints from women? And do you have like a system where you would intake the complaints properly? So you're not just saying, "Oh no, we never got any complaints because I'm just not hearing them." Could you speak to that?

LISA MALONEY: Yeah. And so, we do have a medical doctor who is overseeing everything. There are standing orders for the prenatal, for the prescriptions, for the STI testing. So yes, all of that is done under the direction of our medical director, who is a doctor. And your second question was about the complaints if there were any. There is a protocol for complaints. Clients are also -- One of the other directors had talked about exit surveys and so clients are given exit surveys. They're asked, you know, "Please feel free. This is anonymous. You know, let us know what you thought of our services." And in the 21 years that I have been there, there have been no formal complaints.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): And I know you're in my area. So, I would just like how many women have passed through your doors that you have been able to, you know, counsel or provide, you know, I guess referrals, et cetera, have passed through your doors over the years?

LISA MALONEY: Yeah. So, in 27 years, it has been over 10,000 women.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Thank you. That's all my questions. 316 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

LISA MALONEY: Yeah. REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Senator. Representative Gilchrest.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Hi, Ms. Maloney, my question is, are you all affiliated with Care Net nationally?

LISA MALONEY: We are affiliated, but we are not run by them. We've our own nonprofit, our own 501 (c) (3). So, we use the name Care Net as allowed by our affiliation. So that is our DBA name. Our business, our legal business name is Pregnancy Support Center Incorporated. Basically, we get some, you know, our brochures through Care Net. We get support through Care Net, and they help us with the legal writing of our policies and procedures.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Do you -- is your mission aligned with national Care Net?

LISA MALONEY: Our mission statement is empowering people to make informed choices.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay. So, thank you. So there've been a lot of conversations today about, you know, the various pro-choice, anti-choice, pro- life movements and the various strategies of different advocacy organizations. Well, I can't tell if Care Net national is an advocacy organization. They do list for strategic responses to abortion everyday on their website and this organization you're affiliated with their mission is, they're a nonprofit organization that empowers women and men considering abortion to choose life. And as part of. Like I said, they're strategic responses, one is their network of 1,100 affiliated pregnancy centers. Pregnancy centers are on the front lines, empowering women and men to choose life. And so, I just wanted to bring that up because I think there have been lots of conversations again about the national movement and while there's strategy, certainly on 317 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

the pro-choice side, it has been brought up today that there are strategies on, what I would call anti-choice, but on the pro-life side. And so, once again, a strategy is to try and convince anyone seeking an abortion to not make that decision. Thank you.

LISA MALONEY: Can I respond to that?

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Sure.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Go ahead.

LISA MALONEY: Okay. And so I respect what you're saying and I hear what you're saying, but the thing is even Care Net national and having worked with the local pregnancy center for as long as I have, even Care Net national recognizes that women do have three choices and that, Back in 1973 when it was formed and at that point it was called the Christian Action Committee. Again, they were formed to provide an alternative, a place for an alternative for abortion, but always, always being grounded in a nonjudgmental, non-pressure atmosphere so that, you know, women can find a safe place to talk through their options. Again, my advocate earlier had stated that since COVID started, we're actually texting our forms to our clients. And so, they know before they even walk in the door that they're not gonna get an abortion at our place, but they will get medically accurate information and high respect and high treatment from where they're coming.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): And I appreciate that. I would just say, when looking at their website, the national organization you're affiliated with it is saying that their mission and goal is to have women and men who are considering abortion choose life. It doesn't say that the mission and vision is to provide accurate medical information so that someone can make an informed decision.

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LISA MALONEY: That's part of their commitment to care. And I can certainly send you the document that we all have to agree to under the commitment of care is that we do not mislead.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): I would appreciate that. Thank you so much.

LISA MALONEY: Absolutely.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Representative Foster. Excuse me.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): I actually read your lips successfully. I knew I was getting called on. Thank you so much for coming and speaking today. I have a question. You had mentioned accurate medical care and guidance. And I just want to circle back around because you know, this was an issue that I came into not fully informed today, you know, like it's not something I was invited to visit, but just like a week ago and with COVID and the young child, I didn't choose to go to a crisis pregnancy center and do the tour yet, but I certainly will. But one of the things that you said is you're committed to providing accurate medical information. And so, if there was a crisis pregnancy center sharing inaccurate medical information, would you want there to be recourse for that?

LISA MALONEY: Absolutely, if they were sharing inaccurate information, I mean, that would not be within the standard of care that we would want to be provided.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): And the reason why I ask is because one of your colleagues today who shared about the work that they do, we got into a pretty long conversation about one of the options that they promoted on their website, which I'm concerned about because it's not standard medical care. And so, I feel that is a deceptive practice, not something I had even imagined was in the realm of what we'd be 319 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

talking about today. That sort of blindsided me, that an organization that was sort of healthcare adjacent in that example, the pre prenatal care as Senator Somers, I think accurately summarized that with the language that she had used, so that -- so I guess I'm curious, like, is that something we should be worried about because I feel worried now. And so I'm hearing you, it seems like you're doing STI testing and treatment, which is medical care. And what's the highest level like of the person that people who practice in your office on a regular basis, the people who have the most interactions with healthcare providers, what's the highest medical credential, someone who's regularly in your office.

LISA MALONEY: Well, I have a master's degree and I'm licensed in marriage and family therapy. My nurse manager and our staff nurse both have BSN plus extensive training in limited obstetrical ultrasounds. And our medical director is a DEO and she's an emergency room physician locally.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Okay. And the last question that I started having, so we agreed like saying you should, referring someone to a medical treatment that's not medically advised is a problem, right? That's we're in agreement.

LISA MALONEY: Uh-huh.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Okay. And so my next question is, as you have these providers in the office and they're doing testing and screening for patients, is there frequently a point in time where people feel like they're in a primary, like obstetrics care system or is that like never the case? They always feel like it's sort of an adjacent parallel track.

LISA MALONEY: No, we're very upfront that we are just diagnosing the pregnancy. And then we would have them working with our advocates, which is a trained mentor, who would help them navigate the 320 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

HUSKY system if they needed to get on HUSKY, who would help them navigate which doctor, you know, we give them a list of doctors that they could go to in the area, navigate housing, navigate WIC, navigate nurse family partnership.

There are many agencies that they would be -- So, and then they would be explained that once they're established in medical care, they could still come back once a month for ongoing support and referrals and baby supplies.

REP. FOSTER (57TH): Okay. I love that you share supplies to help moms. I think that sometimes those things are so cost prohibitive. It's very challenging. So, I appreciate that example. So, I just -- so it sounds like when there are deceptive practices, we should act on that, but you feel calm, you feel strongly, you don't want to be associated with bad actor, so I totally get it. Thank you so much.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you representative. Are there any other questions or comments? If not, thank you for your time, Lisa. We really appreciate it. Next up is Roxanne Sutocky, followed by Susan Costa.

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Hi. Thank you. Can you hear me?

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Please go for it.

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Great. Thank you so much. Distinguished Members of the Public Health Committee, thank you for offering this opportunity to submit testimony and for bearing with us through such a long day. My name is Roxanne Sutocky and I serve as the Director of Community Engagement with Hartford GYN Center. We've served as a community resource for reproductive health services since 1978. We have licensed staff and they are experts in the field. We are routinely referred to by area specialists, hospitals, and universities. SB 835, an 321 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

act much needed protections against false and misleading advertisements by limited service pregnancy resource centers meant to delay or interrupt access to legitimate reproductive health care services. Emergency contraception, I think contraception broadly and abortion care are among the time-sensitive pregnancy related health care services offered by facilities like Hartford GYN.

Any delay in access can result in a patient being unable to get the care they seek at all, increasing the likelihood that they will face an unplanned pregnancy or be required to carry a pregnancy to term against their better judgment and/or their will. Being denied a one to termination has been proven detrimental to women and their family's health and economic wellbeing.

A recent study revealed consequences of being denied who wanted abortion, including a four times greater likelihood of living below the federal poverty level and increased complications from the end of pregnancy, including eclampsia and death. We often hear from patients who've been deceived by the CPCs. In one, such example, a 21-year-old Hartford resident named Shanaya, name has been changed, who scheduled an abortion appointment with us was stopped and instructed to enter a Hartford Women's Center, which is a CPC that is just a few steps away from our front door with a nearly identical name. Upon entry, Shanaya was told that if she had an abortion, she would be "spinning " and that she "might not make it out alive." With the help of volunteers Shanaya eventually made it to her appointment at Hartford GYN Center. She told us that she felt scared. And the majority of the appointment involved talking about the experience and correcting misinformation. When Shanaya decided to seek care in her pregnancy, she expected unbiased non-coercive pregnancy counseling and abortion care from medical professionals. And unfortunately, before she was able to access that care at Hartford GYN, she was misled and confronted with lies and chains. 322 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

The deception is by design. In 1967, Robert Pearson sounded one of the first anti-abortion pregnancy centers and went on to offer a manual, designed to help others do the same. According to Pearson, a car dealer, When he's advertising does not list the thing his auto won't do. So why should we say we don't do abortions?" Sounds familiar

More recently at a training through heartbeat international, anti-choice activist, Abby Johnson stated those are the best clients you could ever have walked through your door or call your center. The ones who thank you, provide abortions. And although deceptive advertisements are just one tactic of anti-abortion centers limiting this practice would help to mitigate harm by limiting the incidents of patients mistakenly contacting or visiting centers, delaying access to time-sensitive pregnancy related reproductive healthcare.

Clear and honest advertising directed at those seeking medical care should be the standard practice here in Connecticut. And I strongly encourage you to promote health, dignity, privacy, and autonomy by passing SB 835. I thank you for your time.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you Roxanne for your testimony. Representative Gilchrest.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Ms. Sutocky, I think I said that right. There've been comments throughout the day about competition between limited service pregnancy centers and reproductive health clinics as the reason why pro-choice folks might be supporting this Bill. I don't know your background. I don't know much, but I would think you do have choices on where you could work. So, I was hoping you could tell us all why do you choose to work at Hartford GYN?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Thank you, Representative Gilchrest. I have been working with Hartford GYN and 323 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

the Women's Centers broadly, which is a group of independent abortion providers that does specialize in first and second trimester abortion care, as well as offering other reproductive health services. Because I think that reproductive health care, especially the more stigmatized health care services like birth central, like abortion care services are incredibly difficult to access and the systems to seek them are very difficult to navigate.

I think that it is super important that when people walk into an office and are seeking a service that they anticipate they will be judged for or have blame placed on them, services that are steeped in shame and stigma that they're met with someone who is kind, and who is there to support them no matter what, who will offer them non-judgmental services and care. And so I think that the Women's Centers and Hartford GYN Center exemplifies that.

And I think that over the decade that I've been working closely with patients who are seeking abortion care, I know we've talked about the fact that like, there's no documented cases of this, but I've talked to countless people who've told me that, you know, they've called crisis pregnancy centers, they've gone to these places. They've been told horrific, misinformation about the abortion care that they see.

And I think it's important to stand in a place, you know, that is in support of these folks. And we know that at least one in four women will have an abortion in their lifetime. We know that a lot of people don't talk about that experience and don't talk about this experience of, you know, getting misinformed or shamed because of this overwhelming stigma. And so I think it's really important that, you know, services like ours are available and that they are healthcare based. 'Cause unfortunately, you know, this kind of confusion and I've heard confusion on both sides of the aisle, from the lawmakers, and is that, you know, when there are 324 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

centers that are representing themselves as healthcare providers, there is an assumption that the care that they give will be non-biased, that options counseling will not be what I heard today be options, coaching, which is really the services that are provided by these crisis pregnancy centers. When the information that they're providing about abortion is information that's been proved completely wrong, like abortion will cause breast cancer, which has been countered by the American. I want to make sure that I'm citing the appropriate person. The American Cancer Society. So, I just think that I am constantly infuriated by the stories that I hear from patients. And it's just so important to be able to hold the space for people, who are seeking care again, that, like I said, that's really stigmatized.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you so much. And thanks for the work you do.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Thank you, Representative. And thank you Roxanne for your testimony. I don't see any further questions. So have a very nice evening. Thank you for testifying today. Wait a minute. I'm sorry. Stay where you are. Senator Anwar, a late-breaking development.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Sorry, I had to be very fast with the computer and then, have a rapid response. Thank you so much for your testimony. And what kind of -- could you list some of the things or myths that are, well not myths, but some of the information that is being shared at some of these centers that you've heard.

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Yeah. I think a lot of crisis pregnancy centers kind of prey on, like you said, these myths that are very frequently perpetuated by media or have just been assumed to be true over a lot of time. And so, like I mentioned, abortion causing birth control or links between birth control, or I'm sorry, breast cancer, links between 325 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

birth control and breast cancer, information opposing the use of birth control or condoms, which I think for centers that are presenting themselves as healthcare. Present center is really in opposition of public health. Which is why I think this is an appropriate issue for this Committee. But also, you know, that if you have an abortion, you'll never be able to have children again, which is just not true.

And I think one of the most obvious thing that this happens is in the ways that the risks of abortion are presented. And when we do options counseling, we talk to people about what a procedure is, what the risks are that involved and what the alternatives are. But what we see happening at these centers is only the risks of abortion being highlighted, and then being highlighted extensively. And what we don't see is the same attention paid to risks for things like continuing a pregnancy fully to term, which we know is 10 times more dangerous when it comes to like the cause of death or scary things that have been talked about today, like hemorrhaging, because highlighting the risks of one procedure and not others, is absolutely a coercive behavior. It's meant to scare people and it's meant to convince people to choose an option that the centers think is the best option for them based on their space or on their mission. And we know that the mission of new centers is to compel people to choose life sustaining options.

There was at one point, you know, talk about the CPCC as an overarching body that would credential these centers. And then again, as a coalition of crisis pregnancy centers, whose mission is to ensure that people have life affirming options. And so, I think that when left to their own accord to oversee themselves when they have a really blatant or kind of stake in the game, we can't trust them to abide by the same principles that a medical care facility would. And that's why I think this Bill is so important. 326 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): So I heard at least one situation that there was, the DPH oversees them. Have you heard of that? Are all of them overseen by DPH?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: No. The overwhelming majority of these centers are not overseen by DPH, which is why I found it interesting. Then folks would say that we should report occurrences to DPH because they generally don't have the authority to oversee these types of centers. There are not, you know, regulations or guardrails in place for what DPH says these limited centers can or cannot do. I think the example that was given before me was regulation and oversight, that was very specific to the STI testing, that was given. And in previous testimony, folks stating that the CLIA certification that they have, which essentially only mandates the lab testing portion of the site, not the practices, it doesn't hold them to HIPAA, it doesn't mean that they are a licensed medical care facility, is really different.

And so I think when we talk about the fact that family planning, clinics, hospitals, medical care facilities are licensed, and there's an expectation that they are regularly inspected and that there are expectations set by those regulating bodies. And I think that's been misrepresented in the information, that was presented through testimony. I'm sorry I'm watching someone take a picture of their cat and that's like the most adorable thing I've ever seen. I love too.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): She's doing a CAT scan as we speak, right?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Yeah. [laughter]

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): So the other question I wanted to run by you is, there was this mindset that, look, 327 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

maybe one wrong thing may have happened and that's something we should wait for a study to be done, if enough wrong things are happening before we change things.

And again, putting a medical lens on and if you see systemic issues where there's a risk of wrong that's happening and then wrong actually does happen. We don't need to have a study and then wait for 25 outcomes, negative outcomes to be able to say loud, let's change the laws now. You have to do it in different thresholds. Have you thought about those or do you have any opinion on that aspect?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Yeah, I think, you know, we spent a year of really concerted efforts engaging our patients directly, taking down their experiences with being misled or obstructed in seeking services with us by the Hartford Women's Center, which was previously named Hartford -- St. Gerard's Medical Center for Life when they renamed themselves and placed themselves next to our facilities. And we have, you know, a number of people that did agree to let us communicate their experiences to you all in this forum.

And so for me, year after year to watch this go on without any resolution is really a shame. And I think we've heard, you know, in -- in previous years that well, you know, Consumer Affairs should take care of it. And it was determined that is not appropriate, right? And now it's Department of Public Health should take care of it. But I think it would be really shameful to let another year go on of patients experiencing this. And specifically abortion-seeking patients, not patients who are seeking faith-based pregnancy-related care services, you know, without intervention. I think it would be a missed opportunity to have resolution for our patients.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): If I may just ask you a question that I'm not sure you'd be -- you've 328 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

thought that through, but if there was a CPC next to a place of worship. So it's a religious organization, and then there's a religious community service entity right next to it, and which basically claims and then stands by what IEF is also is black and white with where they stand on the issues and not trying to suggest and drawing people to change their minds but also being very clear, "This is what we do. This is what we don't do." How would you feel about that?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: I would have no issue with that. And actually, some crisis pregnancy centers that I've seen, not in the state of Connecticut but in other places, actually do operate out of houses of worship. And so I think that, you know, that does set people up for a successful experience.

But as some people have pointed out, and certainly spoke to a little bit with the history of these centers. They, you know, were started as a response to abortion no longer being criminalized in the United States. And I think that their ultimate purpose is to dissuade people from seeking abortion care. And so I don't think that it would serve their purpose to be upfront and transparent about what they intend when they're providing their services.

I think there's a lot of ways that they could present them to the community to be, you know, upfront about the care that they're seeking that wouldn't attract people who potentially were looking for full-scope comprehensive pregnancy options, counseling, or pregnancy resources that they don't offer. But I think that that would preclude them from -- from reaching their intended audience's time, which is why I think that there's such strong opposition to this Bill.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And I'll use a term that somebody used and I want to see if you understand what this means. They claim that they have two 329 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

people working who have extensive partial limited ultrasound training. What does that mean?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: So I think that some services like the provision of ultrasounds, the regulation is different for an individual who might perform an ultrasound.

Generally, the ultrasounds that are provided by these limited service pregnancy centers are not meant to be diagnostic. There may be one affiliated medical provider that is off site that can take a look at ultrasound scans that someone else is doing. But what we've been told by patients is that oftentimes, they're getting the ultrasound, and they're made to hold small figurines of fetuses. They're, you know, told, "Look at your beautiful baby." They're called mom. And so this is an ultrasound not provided for medical reasoning. This is an ultrasound provided to be used as psychological and emotional manipulation.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And when somebody says that they are extensively treated in what they call as extensively limited partial ultrasound training, they are saying that they are able to pick up multiple times ectopic pregnancies, do you think that is plausible to a significant degree with certainty, with the level of medical expected training?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: I believe that an ultrasound performed by someone with limited training would need to be then interpreted by someone with extensive training, like a physician. And with that interpretation could definitely pick up a -- an ectopic pregnancy. But I think someone, you know, with limited training who is not licensed or trained adequately to interpret ultrasounds should not be making any diagnosis or interpreting any information from -- from a scan for a patient.

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SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And when somebody says that their center has medical director who is an emergency physician at another facility, that means that somebody has lent their name to the organization rather than physically be there at all times. Is that what's happening or -- in some places or -- or they're physically there at all times when it's functioning?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Yeah. My understanding is that the staffing at these types of centers varies really greatly, which is why I think we've heard such a -- like a spectrum of different experiences. Some folks saying, "We're absolutely licensed. We absolutely have medical care facilities."

I think the problem is that they present to the community almost exactly in the same way as the facilities that do not have that type of staff available for folks. And so it's, in my opinion, that kind of intentionally misleading. And I think that the overarching similarity is that the presentation is meant to be that of a medical center and that patients and providers have a -- there's a kind of understanding between a person and a medical provider that there is a certain level of regulation or ethical care that is provided by medical care centers.

So, I think that by being potentially disingenuous or just not completely transparent about the presentation and who is available, is problematic. And that's where the Hartford City Ordinance came in where there was a signage mandate that would just simply ask that the center say, "Yeah, is there a doctor here presently or is there not?" Because I think that's something that -- that, you know, we we're hearing from the patients that did visit that center was very confusing about who was providing the services. I don't want to define them as medical care because as we said, they're not overseeing like a medical care facility. They're 331 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

not held by HIPAA. They're not necessarily inspected by a governing body.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you so much. I have no more questions. But I'm so sorry for taking a long time. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for allowing me. I -- I wanted to clarify a few things. Thank you.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): Okay, Senator. Don't let it happen again. Representative -- I was kidding. Representative Carpino.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Thank you, sir. I'll be a little bit briefer. I really appreciate your testimony, and I really appreciate somebody who is passionate about where they work. Whether I agree with your beliefs or disagree, I appreciate passion, and I appreciate you sharing your candor with us.

But I am curious and a little confused, to be honest with you. If you have all of these stories you allege to be deception or misinformation, and I take you at your word. And you are right there in Hartford at the heart of this matter, why is it during all of the deposition testimony is the corporation's counsel himself was unaware of all of these incidents? How is it that a connection wasn't made between you and the individuals pursuing the ordinance, or what fell through the cracks?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Sorry.

REP. STEINBERG (136TH): That's okay.

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Sorry about that. Yeah, I can't speak to the details of the deposition, although I know that they're headed your way. I did see Mayor Bronin's testimony in regards to the Hartford City Ordinance in which he did affirm that they heard complaints and I was present through the hearings where we had a number of community members show up, including the volunteers that worked with us to collect these patient's stories and share them with 332 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

the city council, which did spur them then to initiate the city ordinance.

I mean, there was even some local news coverage that showed one of the patients who had been sexually assaulted and then was misinformed and visited the Hartford Women's Center complaining about this issue on camera, with her face blurred. So, I think what is being misrepresented is that it's not that there weren't complaints, it's not that patients didn't share their experiences with us.

It's just that the level of the type of reporting does not seem to meet some folks' definition of what a reported complaint can or should look like. But I do hope that together we can seek some resolution, and so that there is a really clear pathway for people to make complaints and for there to be resolution. Because I think it's unclear at this point on how that can and should happen at the present moment.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Sure. There is some confusion. I am of the very strong opinion that CUTPA would cover this quite clearly and the fact that if there were women who are being deceived, I have no tolerance for that. And I believe that if there were, in fact, instances then it should have already been addressed. So you and I are in agreement on that point.

But I would ask you if you have this information, because corporation counsel in his deposition seem to indicate and I'll double-check again tonight, that he was unaware of any specific instances I'd love for you to provide them to the Committee. I understand you might want to read out the name. But if that information is out there, I think it's important for the Committee. I find it odd and a little discouraging at seven o'clock tonight. And then you can fill in the year that we've heard this, that we still haven't seen those details. So I would appreciate you passing them along. 333 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

And then I have a question off topic, and you may not be the right one to answer this but I will try you because of your experience. Do you ever have to refer folks or take in referrals from patients who have sought an abortion, perhaps at an OB that doesn't provide them? Have you ever had those women walk through your doors?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Thank you. So, first, I want to respond to the issue of CUTPA. My understanding is that this legislation fills an existing gap in the consumer protection mechanisms. Existing clinics who charge for their services are covered under CUTPA. But because of the nature of these nonprofits centers, no, that they don't charge for services. They exist in kind of a gray area that is not covered by CUTPA. So that is my understanding is that this actually will bridge that gap so that there is that accountability. And I think, you know, cover in these services, like we said.

I am looking right now at a document of compiled stories from 2018. One I shared in my testimony and the patient's name had been shared, changed to Shanaya. So you heard one of those. We can get you the other stories for sure. And if you're asking if we receive referrals for patients who are seeking abortion care services, we absolutely do.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Nope, that wasn't my particular question. My question was just, knowing that not all OBs perform abortion services, I was wondering if you've ever dealt with patients who have gone to their OB and were unable to obtain abortion services and then were referred to you.

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Yes. It's not uncommon for other medical providers to refer to Hartford GYN Center for abortion services if they do not or cannot provide those services, because we have been a community resource for abortion care for decades. So, we have great relationships with the hospital, 334 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

with maternal fetal medical specialists who makes fetal diagnosis, to refer to -- who refer for us for this, that type of care.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Thank you. So, if this law were to pass, do you believe that those OB/GYNs that don't offer abortion should be required to post this in their offices as well?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Could you repeat the question?

REP. CARPINO (32ND): Sure. So if this law were to pass and those OB/GYNs that you've dealt with in the past or others, don't provide the full range of pregnancy services, point blank. If there's an OB/GYN after this Bill is passed that does not provide abortion, do you believe that they would need to advertise that in their offices, no different than some of the pregnancy centers we're addressing tonight?

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: I think that those OB/GYNs are already regulated because they are covered under CUTPA because they charge for their services, like Hartford GYN Center does and most medical care providers do.

The issue that we're talking about is the fact that these centers exist in a gray area. I would say in ethical gray area as well as a legal gray area for how they can be covered. So, that's the solution and the fix that we're really looking for here. Is how to make sure that all offices that work with people who can become pregnant and pregnant individuals are following appropriate protocols to ensure adequate referrals are being made and that, you know, referrals are being made in a non-coercive way and that, you know, access to care is not being inhibited.

REP. CARPINO (32ND): No. And I appreciate that. I would just offer that if we're truly looking for transparency and to make sure women have all of the 335 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

information available so that they can make a timely decision, I think it would only be fair that the offices for which they receive treatment should all fall under the same guidelines. And so that all of the women walking in those doors, regardless of the door they choose, know what offers are available to them. But --and thank you for your testimony tonight.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Representative. Are you all set? Great. I don't see any other questions. So, thank you for your time and your testimony tonight.

ROXANNE SUTOCKY: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have No. 59 Susan Costa, followed by No. 60, Andrea Maloney. Susan Costa, are you with us? Go right ahead.

SUSAN COSTA: Yes. Hi, thank you for this opportunity to talk tonight. My story is going to be very different, perhaps, than what we've been hearing most of the day, and I've really enjoyed most of this day today and I've learned a lot.

So I'm new to Care Net in New London. I am from Waterford and I just started working at Care Net in January. And the reason why I wanted to work at Care Net is what I'm about to tell you now, which is also my testimony. And also, I want to say that I do oppose this Bill. So I learned that this is not the first time legislators have tried to shut down our agencies, and I oppose the Bill for very personal reasons.

In 1973, I was 16 years old. I was a junior in high school. I found myself pregnant, very confused, and scared, feeling I had no choice except abortion. The only place my friends were getting abortions at that time was in New York City. I made plans not to tell my parents and go with a friend who had done this, and get it over with. My boyfriend and I did 336 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

not -- my boyfriend did not ask me to marry him, and I was afraid to trap him in a marriage. I felt I had no choice and came within 24 hours of the appointment in New York.

My mom found out and came to confront me. I did not want to tell her because I did not think she would be able to help me and would be terribly upset. Ironically, it was my mom that gave me the real choice. Society gave me only one choice. This Bill SB 835 does not recognize that agencies like Care Net are offering all the choices.

We do not perform abortions, but we absolutely discuss that as an option if the client wants to have an abortion. We also discuss adoption with clients who want to give their child for adoption, even though we are not an adoption agency. We also counsel on parenting, even though we do not certify clients to become parents. We only educate and offer support, not only emotionally, spiritually, but also materially. Please vote no on this Bill that tries to shut down agencies like ours.

The services we offer have supported many, many women and girls that wanted to understand all their choices. So they have been able to make the choice that was right for them.

To finish my story, my mom helped my boyfriend and I to communicate. She was the one who spelled out all my choices, including abortion, which she was not going to let me go to New York without considering adoption or parenting. She helped us both to see that we loved each other and would be willing to get married and have this baby. We have been married 47 years. My son is a happily-married man with three children, my three precious grandchildren. Even though it was not always easy, it was the best choice for me. Had there been a Care Net back then in 1970 --

337 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Excuse me. You've hit your three minutes, if you wouldn't mind concluding your remarks.

SUSAN COSTA: Okay, thank you very much. Had there been a Care Net back then in 1973, I would not have felt so alone. Care Net has been there for women at the most important crossroad decisions that can completely change the course of a life.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much. It sounds like you had a wonderful mother. So --

SUSAN COSTA: Yes.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): And I'm glad that your story worked out so well.

SUSAN COSTA: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you for being here to testify. I don't see any questions at this time, so thank you so much for being here.

SUSAN COSTA: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next up is Andrea Maloney, No. 60, followed by 61, Frank Salomone.

ANDREA MALONEY: Thank you, Madam Chair. My name is Andrea Maloney. I am from Newtown, Connecticut. I'm here tonight, and I appreciate all your patience. It has been a long day listening to this testimony. But I'm here tonight to oppose Bill SB 835.

And I feel like I'm a bit of a unicorn from what you've heard today because I'm actually pro-choice, right? I believe reproductive rights are human rights. If anybody wants to get an abortion, they ought to be able to get an abortion. If they choose to proceed with the pregnancy, that's wonderful too. So, the reason why I'm here is I think actually 338 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Representative Dauphinais said it well, you know, what sort of -- it's like we're looking for a solution in search of a problem. And then listening to everything today, you know, I'm a numbers person. I look at things by statistics. My background is in statistics. I'm an engineer. I've done a lot of risk management throughout my career.

So, the way I kind of approached this Bill was I looked at statistics from 2018. From the CTD-PH portal, you had, you know, over 34,000 births in Connecticut, you had over 9,000 abortions. So, access to abortion doesn't really sound like it's an issue at all here in Connecticut. If people need it, they seem to find it.

And I think back to my experience too pre-Google, pre all of that, right? I'm dating myself. But if you needed an abortion, you knew to go to Planned Parenthood. And that's what you did, or you went to your doctor.

But again, trying to be analytical with this, I googled, you know, "Where can I find an abortion in Connecticut?" And all the Planned Parenthood places came up, not a single pregnancy crisis center came up. I even went to Google Maps and put them in the same thing, and it was all, you know, same. So, I'm having trouble finding the deception, finding where people might be tricked into, you know, ending up at a pregnancy crisis center rather than at a place where they'd like to get an abortion.

So, at the same time, you know, listening to all the testimony today, again, I'll just reiterate, it doesn't sound like there's a huge problem or an issue. I'm just not hearing it. So, again, being pro-choice, I am actually opposed to SB 835. And I thank you all for your time tonight.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much for coming here this evening and testifying. 339 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Appreciate it. There's a question. Representative Gilchrest, go right ahead.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Ms. Maloney, for being here. I just wanted to mention an interesting thing about the Google search. And I'm with you. That's how I look for things. I, you know, constantly to my kids just Google it. I have no idea, you know, and it is late. So, now I'm getting a little sloppy with my talk.

But interestingly, in June of 2019, Google actually put out a new policy that required, I don't know if you're aware, the crisis pregnancy centers to actually have to advertise appropriately and say, if they provided abortions or didn't provide abortions. And so at that point in time, that's when the Google search has really changed so that limited service pregnancy centers didn't pop up as the top search.

So there was that change that occurred in June, 2019. And I just wanted the Committee to be aware because we've been -- people have been listening to these testimonies now for years. But I just wanted folks to be aware that that -- that's probably a change when you're speaking to the Google piece and that people wouldn't struggle with that. There was a change, nationally, a policy of Google's. Thanks.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you for explaining that, Representative, because I remember in --when we heard the Bill in 2019, that that was not the case. So, I'm glad you explained why it changed. Any other questions? Seeing none, thank you so much for being here this evening. Next, No. 61, Frank Salamone, followed by No. 62, Lisa Perretta. Mr. Salamone.

FRANK SALAMONE: Hi. Can you hear me?

340 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I can hear you, but we can't see you. That's fine if you don't want, but just to let you know.

FRANK SALAMONE: I'll speak like this. It'll be brief. Thank you. I just -- thank you for letting me have this opportunity to speak. I just want to say, I learned about this Bill SB 835, AN ACT CONCERNING DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING PRACTICES OF LIMITED SERVICES PREGNANCY CENTERS.. Thanks for my State Representative. This is my first time testifying at a public hearing, and it's a new experience for me to express my opinion like this. But I'm glad we get to do this and thank you in advance for listening to me.

I've long felt that it is -- it's really important for women with unplanned pregnancies to be fully supported, especially when they decide to give birth and become mother to their babies, or if they decide to give up their baby for adoption so that another woman can become a mother. I know Catholic Charities, for example, does a lot of this vital work.

Now, life could be lonely and hard and sometimes really scary for these women. And it doesn't surprise me that there's more faith-based pregnancy resource centers than there are secular-Planned Parenthood offices.

Because sometimes you just need more support. You need prayers. And there's something about approaching pregnancy from a faith perspective. Now, I get it's not for everyone. And that's fine. But think about it for a second. Many of these faith-based pregnancies are funded by donations only, not taxpayer dollars.

Now, there's a whole network of caring people out there in Connecticut and really doing the work of caring and caring for their fellow sister. Especially in this time of COVID, this is a 341 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

beautiful thing. It's really because we hope in humanity.

But of all the things that frustrate me about Connecticut government, learning this Bill says there's legitimate need to regulate the advertising. A faith-based pro-life centers being brought again, and again, and again to the Connecticut government is just ridiculous.

This is America, folks. We really do have something called freedom of speech. And everywhere I look, it's really being infringed upon these days. And I know it's not really convenient, but we also have freedom of religion. And some of you may want to regulate a whole bunch of things, no doubt, and ensure the world might be a better place for you, in particular, if everyone followed your rules. But that's not really what our country is about.

And I'm sorry that there are all these people here having to testify again, taking precious time out of their lives when they could be doing something else, because there is a Bill that wants to infringe on the free speech of one group that services one while leaving another group that services women free to do as a pleases.

Now, why don't we reword this so that it is an Act concerning deceptive advertising practices of all pregnancy centers?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you.

FRANK SALAMONE: I know the Governor is taking unilateral action emergencies during this pandemic. But I'd really suggest the Public Health Committee focuses on taking back some power from the Governor and having a real say in public health in our state regarding this issue of COVID. So, please vote no on SB 835. And that's it.

342 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much. And thank you for taking your time to testify. And I hope it's not the last time that you this, since it's your first.

FRANK SALAMONE: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I hope you'll do it again.

FRANK SALAMONE: Thank you very much.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I don't see any question, so thank you for your time. Lisa Perretta followed by Stephen Lyon. Welcome. Go right ahead.

LISA PERRETTA: Hi. Can you hear me?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): We can, yes.

LISA PERRETTA: You can?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Yeah, go right ahead.

LISA PERRETTA: Okay. Can you see me? Okay. Hi. Thank you to all represented on the Committee and those testifying on behalf and against this Bill. My name is Lisa Perretta. I've been a client of both Planned Parenthood and Hope Pregnancy House located in Cheshire, Connecticut.

I'm in opposition of this Bill SB 835 due to the fact that, if I'm not mistaken, there are no lawyers or judges on this Committee. And I feel and hear a trial going on before us.

I would also like to state the fact that I heard Ms. Gilchrest, one of your Representatives, say she was a director or held a position with NARAL. This in fact is viewed as being a conflict of interest and holding a biased opinion in relation to this Bill. And she should not be allowed to have a vote, or 343 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

anyone, for that matter, that is or has been affiliated with the plaintiff in this case.

I would strongly suggest that if this Bill is passed by this Committee, a lawsuit pursue by the pregnancy centers charging the Committee and NARAL with an unjust, unfair trial and sue for defamation of character against Connecticut pregnancy centers. With that being said, Planned -- and as I said, I stated right in my introduction, I have been both a client of Planned Parenthood and Hope Pregnancy House. So, I'm very, very familiar with both practices.

Planned Parenthood by their very name is deceiving. Planned means the process of making plans for something. Parenthood means the state of being a parent and the responsibilities involved. We all know Planned Parenthood, and I personally know, does not offer prenatal care. So, they perform abortions. So, they should be named UnPlanned Parenthood. This is more befitting and is not deceiving to the public.

I also want to state this, pre -- prenatal care is just that it's care Whether it's done before a woman goes to an OB/GYN, it's still prenatal clear -- I'm sorry Prenatal care, to clarify that to one of your Representatives. I've also heard it being said that you, the Committee, have been invited to the pregnancy centers to see what they do and their practices. And I've heard many of you continuously ask what they do. It should be the practice of this Committee, as a Health Committee, to visit such places in your community. I've just heard over and over again. Okay?

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Sorry. Excuse me. You've hit your three minutes. If you wouldn't mind concluding.

LISA PERRETTA: Thank you. I've heard -- yeah. I've heard over and over again from Ms. Foster 344 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

asking what they do and basically -- oops, did this go off? I'm sorry.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): No, go ahead.

LISA PERRETTA: And basically ask I'm sorry. Am I on again? I'm sorry --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): You're on. You haven't gone off. Go right ahead.

LISA PERRETTA: I apologize. I've heard over -- I've heard over and over again from Ms. Foster asking what they do and basically asking about all their credentials of those that work in such places. Yes, Ms. Foster, they have professionals who have degrees and are very suitable to provide a professional care.

With all that being said, my experience and those of many, many women that I personally know have benefited from the care, compassion, and love from these centers. Besides the fact they continue on with their relationship with the client and their child, I've never witnessed nor heard any woman say she felt deceived going to one of the centers. The Committee knows very well and should not assume that a woman does not know the difference between a pregnancy center and Planned Parenthood. The facts here are that NARAL has no grounds or proof accusations against pregnancy centers.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Mrs. Perretta, I'm going to have to stop you there because you're over your time. But thank you so much. Appreciate it. Just a minute.

LISA PERRETTA: I am happy to take question from one of the Representatives to continue.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Representative Gilchrest would like to ask you something. Just a minute. Okay? 345 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

LISA PERRETTA: Sorry.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Take a breath. It's all right. I know you've waited a long time.

LISA PERRETTA: Thank you. I'm trying to get it all.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I know. I know. Take a breath.

LISA PERRETTA: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Representative Gilchrest, go right ahead.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): Thank you, Madam Chair. And thanks Ms. Perretta for being here tonight to testify. I once again felt compelled to speak since my name was brought up.

LISA PERRETTA: Yes.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): I am proudly the former Executive Director of NARAL Pro-Choice Connecticut. I just want to clear up what a conflict of interest is. Just by chance last night, actually, the House Democrats had a training around our ethics and conflict of interest. But you can find it right on the internet.

And it says that a public official, including an elected state official or state employee, has an interest, which is in substantial conflict with the proper discharge of his duties or employment in the public interest and of his responsibilities as prescribed in the laws of this state, if he has reason to believe or expect that he, his spouse, a dependent child, or a business with which he is associated will drive a direct monetary gain or suffer a direct monetary loss as the case may be by reason of his official activity. 346 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

I am no longer the executive director of NARAL Pro- Choice Connecticut, nor would this policy have directly benefited me financially. My only critique with the statute is that it uses "he." And I wish that we could change that to gender-neutral pronouns. But thank you again for --

LISA PERRETTA: But you also have a very biased opinion and that's been stated over and over again. From what I've heard all day long with you, you present a very biased opinion with everyone that's represented pretty much for pregnancy centers.

And it's very clear, and your indication is so. So whether you want to talk about the Democrats or not, and putting in your little foray there, I understand that, but I don't believe that you should be voting on this Bill for the simple fact that you have ties to the opposing party. That's just how it is. Okay?

And I also feel that you seek to dismantle the trust that the public has in pregnancy houses around Connecticut. Okay? And you're infringing upon their standards also of being faith based and to be a force that is against them simply because they support life. We can all hear this. It's very, very evident, okay? From you and a few other Representatives on this Committee, being a Health Committee.

I understand your stand, but you're making it very well known to the public your opposition against pregnancy centers. Okay? And to me, it's very sad that this Committee allows this to continue year after year. I would personally refer this to the courts to make a judgment that is constitutionally sound in this matter and to set a standard for you and those other organizations that you cannot exhaust the state over unfounded allegations.

347 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

The Committee is not the judge nor the juror in this matter, and they should vote on evidence that they have before them. And quite frankly, the evidence before you clearly states that the centers are found not to be deceptive in their practices or their advertisements. You seek to go against your faith, knowing that they're for life. And basically, here's what you want to do. You want them to report the women to abortion clinics.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Ms. Perretta, Ms. Perretta, Ms. Perretta, I'm going to have to stop you there. Okay? Thank you. You had your time to testify.

REP. GILCHREST (18TH): And Ms. Perretta, I would just say, you know, we respectfully agree to disagree. I don't see my position as biased. I see my position as --

LISA PERRETTA: Everyone on here sees you as being biased, and your Representatives are for it.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Ms. Perretta, Ms. Perretta, that's -- that's --

LISA PERRETTA: But that's the truth of it. I pray that they take you to court and sue this Committee for this.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Ms. Perretta, I'm going to stop you there -- Ms. Perretta, I'm going to stop there --

LISA PERRETTA: Okay.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): -- because I don't think you can speak for everyone. You can certainly speak for yourself.

LISA PERRETTA: I will say. I hope -- I hope that you recorded all of this. Okay?

348 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I want you to know, and here is the other thing that many different occupations are represented on this Committee. So, that was something else that you brought up before. But I don't see any other questions at this time. So, I'm going to thank you for your time. Thank you very much for being here. Next we have Stephen Lyon followed by 66, Elizabeth Welburn.

STEPHEN LYON: Good evening. Can you hear me?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Stephen Lyon, go right ahead. Thank you. Go right ahead.

STEPHEN LYON: Thank you, Senator Abrams, Representative Steinberg, and the rest of the honored Members of the Public Health Committee. I know it's been a long day.

I'm testifying in opposition to SB 835. I'm going to be repeating a lot of the points that have been said today. So, I'm going to try to summarize briefly and let you go based on my written testimony that I submitted.

I'm going to specifically refer to the first paragraph on my second page, which I believe is the fourth paragraph of my testimony, particularly regarding some of the legal issues. It's a summary of the recent Supreme Court decision in a National Institute of Family Life Advocates v Becerra, if I'm pronouncing that correctly.

In this case, the Court held unconstitutional a law in California that required centers to post visible notices about other options for pregnancy like abortion and their availability from state-sponsored clinics, as it was a content-based regulation.

In its decision, Court noted that lesser protections for professional speech exist in two situations: requirements to disclose factual, noncontroversial 349 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

information in their commercial speech and regulations which incidentally implicated speech. In all other such cases, strict scrutiny applied to professional speech regulations which were not content neutral.

Neither of these exceptions apply to the proposed SB 835 either. The proposed legislation is obviously not incidental to speech and the fact that we're debating what is meant by terms like "deceptive" shows that the information is not noncontroversial.

However, even if the presumption is given that it is factual, noncontroversial information, the NIFLA case held that California would have had to show the disclosure requirements addressed a potentially real and not simply hypothetical harm. Any harm being addressed with SB 835 is hypothetical harm, and therefore it does not stand up to the constitutional test.

Aside from that, just in general principles regarding our governing system and the way we pass our laws, there's a general prohibition against laws which chill speech. And by taking the regulations for these clinics and moving them -- enforcement mechanism to the Attorney General's office, it's a chilling mechanism because, if I understand correctly, unlike lawsuits from private citizens or other organizations, when -- even if these pregnancy centers were to be taken to court, if they were to win and to show that all accusations were wrong, they cannot receive attorney's fees or legal fees from the state, unlike any other situation.

So, even if someone were to vindicate all their rights, these could have bankrupt these nonprofits who were following all the rules correctly. It is not fair to put these small nonprofit groups into a special category where they -- in groups which are less financially stable than groups than have more protections under the law. You can see the rest of my testimony. And I support the majority of the 350 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

testimony presented earlier in opposition to this Bill. Thank you so much for your time.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much, Mr. Lyon. And thank you for being so succinct. Appreciate it at this hour. I don't see any questions at this time, so thank you for being here.

STEPHEN LYON: You're welcome. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have Elizabeth Welburn, No. 66, followed by William Obrien, 67. Ms. Welburn, go right ahead.

ELIZABETH WELBURN: Hello. Yes. Hello. Good evening, members of the Committee. My name is Elizabeth Welburn. I'm a lifelong resident of Connecticut and a voting constituent. I strongly oppose Senate Bill 835.

In 2019, I searched for a pro-life center in which to volunteer. An internet search led me to ABC Women's Center, whose homepage stated that they do not perform or refer for abortions. As a pro-lifer, it was their honest advertisement that actually led me there in the first place.

What I have seen and experienced at the center since 2019 is honesty to every woman seeking help. Even prior to a woman's first visit, the center electronically sends her a limitation of services form. This form reiterates that they do not perform or refer for abortions. Women are told that the center is faith based and life affirming. The form states the counselors are not licensed professional counselors but are peer counselors. The form is again reviewed with the woman during her first visit at the center to assure that she fully understands.

Women are given counseling on all of their options, including abortions, so that they can be empowered to make their own decision. There is zero shame or judgment, regardless of their choice. 351 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

I've heard the arguments on why complaints have not been filed and the reasons that were given were speculative and subjective. As a woman, I can say that if I felt deceived by any agency when I went to them at a time of crisis and need, I would likely file a complaint, even if it were at a later time. So, my point is we cannot generalize by stating all women would be unable to file a complaint. Of the tens of thousands served at PRCs, it's highly likely that they would have at least been one other person like me.

Sadly, we're living in times of relative truth where false and baseless claims are made. Please, visit the clinics and see for yourselves the truth versus the lies. Elected officials, such as yourselves, are elected to represent the residents of the state, not to represent special interest groups, even if your personal beliefs may line up with theirs. Tens of thousands of Connecticut residents have received much needed services from pregnancy resource centers, including almost 500 new clients at ABC in 2020. Despite the high number of people served, zero complaints as I've already mentioned.

There are already state statutes in place that address false advertising. All we ask is that we can continually peacefully -- and peacefully serve families in Connecticut at zero cost to them, zero cost to the state, and that these baseless attacks against the center cease to exist. This Bill is a waste of time. It's a waste of taxpayer funds. It's an attack on faith-based centers, and it's an attack on free speech rights. Please, do the right thing for the residents of Connecticut. Vote no on this Bill. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much, Ms. Welburn. Appreciate your time.

ELIZABETH WELBURN: Thank you for allowing me to testify. 352 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Hold on one second, just want to make sure there's any questions. I don't see any, so thank you so much. Appreciate it.

ELIZABETH WELBURN: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next up is William Obrien followed by Elizabeth Oliver, No. 68. Mr. Obrien, go right ahead.

WILLIAM OBRIEN: Thank you, Madam Chairman. Members of the Public Health Committee, my name is William Obrien from Wolcott. I'm the vice president of Connecticut Right to Life. And I asked you to vote no on SB 835.

Connecticut Right to Life as a pro-personhood group And we see every person as a man, woman, child, including unborn children as human beings and every human being as a person.

I'd like to clarify a couple things I heard in testimony today and departing from my own texts, which is available to you. First, there was a question asked, when is abortion legal in Connecticut? And the answer given was up to viability. That's false. Unless Roe V. Wade was overturned and I didn't hear about it, abortion is legal through all nine months of pregnancy throughout the United States.

I mentioned it in my testimony the Weldon Amendment that the Weldon Amendment, in addition to what Steve Aiden from the AUL said earlier in which he thought that this Bill would be struck down by the courts pretty certainly. There's also other penalties California and Hawaii found that out a couple of years ago when the HHS Department of Office of Civil Rights determined that they had violated the rights of pregnancy centers because they had been 353 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

discriminated against as opposed to abortion clinics by being singled out.

And the penalty for that could be withholding from this entire state of Connecticut, all labor and HHS appropriations. Like that's a pretty stiff penalty. I don't know how many million dollars we get from the federal government and from those two agencies, but that could be the penalty.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Sir, you're somehow on mute. If you could unmute yourself.

WILLIAM OBRIEN: I'm not sure I -- I'm not sure where I lost you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): That's okay. Right, when I said it. I told you immediately when you went on mute.

WILLIAM OBRIEN: California and Hawaii got off easy because they said that they would not enforce their laws. So they only had to pay for the legal fees for the pregnancy centers, which in one case was about $35,000, and the other was close to $100,000. But it could've been much worse with all those HHS and Labor funds.

In hearings today, I've heard about seven different places where I could say that Planned Parenthood or abortion clinics, in general, have seven deceptive practices that pregnancy centers would be outlawed to have, but the Planned Parenthood and the others seem to do all the time. I've been involved in for about 47 years in the pro-life movement. I've heard the --

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Mr. O'Brien. Mr. O'Brien, you're approaching three minutes. If you'd like to start concluding.

WILLIAM OBRIEN: Okay. First, just very quickly referring to the unborn child as a blob of tissue 354 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

product of conception, undifferentiated cells. On breast cancer, they advertise that they do breast exams. But if you go in there, I tried it today. I asked online to get a breast exam. And, you know, they referred me to the PP here in Waterbury, but they don't do mammograms.

Now, President Obama said that they do a couple of years ago as he's the president of Planned Parenthood. But they don't. Abortion and breast cancer was mentioned. There's two issues to that. One is preventative first pregnancy, and the other is whether abortion is a cause of breast cancer. Planned Parenthood doesn't mention either one. Right to know, they do ultrasounds, but they don't - -

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I'm going to have to stop you there because you're over your time. But thank you so much. Any last comment you'd like to make? I'm happy to let you do that, but you're well over your time.

WILLIAM OBRIEN: Okay. Just those are deceptive advertising and I think if you're going to include one group, you got to include the other. In fact, the Weldon Amendment requires it. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much, Mr. O'Brien. I don't see any questions, so have a good evening. Thank you for testifying.

WILLIAM OBRIEN: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next up, we have Elizabeth Oliver followed by No. 69, Sally Grossman. Ms. Oliver, if you're -- I see. Go right ahead.

ELIZABETH OLIVER: Dear Members of the Public Health Committee, my name is Elizabeth Oliver. I'm 17 years old, and a junior in high school. I'm here today to implore the legislators to vote against SB 835. 355 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

America is and must always be the land of the free. People have the right to freedom of speech, and yet this Bill infringes the rights of pro-life centers based on false claims of deception. Pro-life centers tell women the truth about their child. They say that the child has a heartbeat just like you and me. In many cases, the child has little fingers, little toes, and little lies.

If these children are simply clumps of cells as Planned Parenthood states, then so am I, and so is anyone and anything that lives in this world. Pro- life centers show other options for women and help women every step of the way through her pregnancy. Pro-life centers tell women the truth about their child and show other options, which is why pro- abortion people can't stand them.

Pro-life centers describe the science, the facts, the morals, and the truth around abortion. Pro-life organizations must not be silenced, because women who are considering abortion need to hear the truth before they make decision about life and death. If they only hear pro-abortion propaganda, they will not really understand what they are doing.

I implore all legislators to treat women with the highest respect and to allow them to hear from pro- life centers. Americans have freedom of speech. These pro-life organizations must not be silenced. Please, legislators, vote no on SB 835. I want a future where pro-life centers are able to help women who are seeking guidance. Women deserve to hear the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much, Ms. Oliver. Is this the first time you've testified to a Committee?

ELIZABETH OLIVER: Yes.

356 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): You did a wonderful job. So, thank you so much for doing it. I don't see any questions, so I'm going to say have a nice evening. Next up is No. 69, Sally Grossman, followed by No. 70, Stephen Schmalhofer.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Hi, my name is Sally Grossman. I'm from Windsor. I'm providing testimony in favor of SB 835. I'm the volunteer clinic escort at Hartford GYN Center in Hartford for the past four years.

In the spring of 2017, a crisis pregnancy center opened a few feet from the clinic's entrance with their stated purpose of luring abortion-minded women away from their scheduled appointments. The CPC is part of St. George's Center for Life, which is a faith-based organization aimed at preventing women from terminating a pregnancy.

St. Gerard's Center for Life changed their name to Hartford Women's Center, which appears deliberate to confuse patients. Their signage makes no mention of there being a faith-based organization. Many of the patients who visit Hartford GYN Center for abortion- related services have never been there before. And part of my job as a clinic escort is to make sure that they enter the right facility.

The signage for both places are identical with the same lettering and colors, which makes it even harder for first-time patients to find the right facility. And again, the fact that Hartford Women's Center has no indication on their signage that they are religious organization. Both facilities share a walkway and patients in the clinic must walk past it or the CPC in order to enter the clinic.

When CPCs first -- oh, when the CPC first opened, they would have volunteers position themselves in the walkway telling patients of the clinic that their appointment was actually with them. I've personally witnessed deception on the part of the CPC. 357 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Shortly after I started as a clinic volunteer, a young woman accompanied by her mother mistakenly entered the women's -- Hartford Women's Center, thinking it was Hartford GYN Center, where a volunteer inside the CPC referred to the woman as her patient, despite the fact that they were actually intended patients of the Hartford GYN Center. The women finally realized they were in the wrong place. They asked the volunteer where the abortion clinic was. So, the volunteer falsely stated no such place was nearby.

And another instance where I was walking a couple to the entrance of the clinic, a volunteer with the CPC grabbed the woman by the arm and told her that her appointment was with them. After the woman's partner swore at the CPC volunteer, I had to tell the couple that the CPC wasn't an actual health clinic and that their appointment was not with them. There were several times this happened where volunteers at the CPC falsely told patients of the Hartford GYN Center that their medical appointment was with them. I witnessed this myself.

Because of stories such as these, the City of Hartford passed an ordinance in the winter of 2017, limiting deceptive practices. Since the ordinance went into effect, I have not seen the CPC open while I've been there on Saturday mornings. The ordinance did seem to have a positive impact on limiting deception on the part of Hartford Women's Center, though there was still signage for abortion pill reversals on the windows. But women in Hartford are not the only ones who deserve protections. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much, Ms. Grossman. Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Hi, thank you for your testimony. One question just to clarify for me. In your testimony, you suggested that the Hartford 358 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Women's Center changed their name in attempt to confuse patients at the Hartford GYN. How do you know that this was the reason? Did Hartford -- Hartford Women's Center share that information with you, or is it just your opinion?

SALLY GROSSMAN: Hold on one second. I'm just going over. I said it appears to be deliberate to confuse patients because patients are very confused all the time. They think that Hartford Women's Center is Hartford GYN Center. So, I said it appears to have been deliberate to confuse because that's what its purpose has been. It has confused patients for Hartford GYN Center.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): So, just your opinion. Thank you.

SALLY GROSSMAN: No, it's not -- people -- patients are confused. They don't know where to go. So, I mean, it's not my -- it has that effect. So, if it wasn't delivered on their part, it has that effect of confusing patients.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Thank you.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Yeah.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Are you all set, Representative?

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Yes, Senator. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Senator Anwar.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you, Madam Chair. I actually heard something like this. First of all, thank you for volunteering. Why did you feel you needed to volunteer?

359 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Because women shouldn't be harassed accessing medical care. I guess it's the simple answer to that question.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Okay. And could you share some of the things that you have directly witnessed yourself?

SALLY GROSSMAN: Sure. So, I think when Roxanne Sutocky testified, she spoke about a young woman who had mistakenly entered the CPC thinking it was Hartford GYN Center. And that is the same patient that I spoke about the woman with her mother and I saw them go walk down the walkway, and I did not realize that they went into the Hartford Women's Center thinking that it was Hartford GYN Center. So, I saw them when they came back out, they told me what happened. They were visibly upset. They walked all around the entire building trying to find the entrance to the Hartford GYN Center.

And as I stated in my testimony, I have witnessed when the CPC was actually opened, which was the spring, summer and fall of 2017, there were many times that there were volunteers of the CPC stationed outside the CPC. They had the door open. They were in a shared walkway, and they would tell patients as I was walking them to Hartford GYN Center, that their patient was actually with the CPC -- their appointment, I'm sorry, was actually with the CPC.

And I did want to clarify earlier today. There was questions about protesters outside the clinic being associated with the CPC, and they are. So I know there was a little discussion about it. I'm not saying all of them were, but there was definitely regular protestors outside Hartford GYN Center who are associated with St. Gerard's Center for Life. I just wanted to clarify that.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): So, Ms. Grossman, do you mind qualifying that a little bit more? Before Senator -- 360 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Representative Dauphinais asked you that question, tell me what makes you think that? The door --

SALLY GROSSMAN: Well, first of all, one of the protestors, his name is Andy. He's a regular. He's there every Saturday morning. He told me that he's allowed to -- I'm sorry, let me back up for a second to kind of explain this.

So, the way it works entering Hartford GYN Center, there's a shared walkway. So, protestors are not allowed to actually enter the walkway. That would be considered trespassing. So, they're not allowed to do that. The only way protestors can actually enter the walkway and be in that shared path is if they're associated with St. Gerard's Center for Life, because then they have permission to be there.

So, there were many times when I saw the regular protestors who are outside, we get randoms showing up sometimes, so I cannot account for them, who they are and who they're with. But the regular protesters, I've seen them on a regular basis entering the Hartford Women's Center. I've seen volunteers with the Hartford Women's Center hand them information, little pamphlets bags that they then hand out to patients as they're entering Hartford GYN Center.

And then one of the protestors told me when he was standing in the walkway, and I told him he can't be there. He said he can be there because he's with St. Gerard's Center for Life.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Okay. So I'm just going to repeat things because I want to clarify in my mind what you said.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Yeah. Okay.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): So there was one who was -- is it fair to say if I use the term "harassing the people coming in" or is it -- or is that term -- 361 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SALLY GROSSMAN: I would, you know, consider yelling that someone's a murderer a harassment. So, yes, I think that's fair to say.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Okay, so there was an individual who was harassing, and when asked why he was there, he claimed that he was working with the CPC, correct?

SALLY GROSSMAN: I'm sorry. Did you want me to -- I asked him -- I told him that he could not be in the walkway. He couldn't be, you know, through the fence, which was there's a little fence that separates the sidewalk from, you know, the entrance into the buildings. And I told him that he couldn't be there. And he said that he could be there because he was with St. Gerard's Center for Life, which is also Hartford Women's Center.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): So that's what I wanted to clarify. So it's not your opinion, it was just the statement of that? And then that's part of -- good - - good. Pardon me?

SALLY GROSSMAN: No, no, go ahead. I'm sorry.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Okay. And then the second part that you mentioned was that there are people who were getting some material directly from the CPC to distribute to the people walking in that area. Is that what you had said earlier?

SALLY GROSSMAN: Yes, yes. I witnessed volunteers with the CPC handing pamphlets and bags to protestors, who then hand them to patients.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Okay. So, again, this is based on your factual firsthand information rather than opinion on your part or anything like that? And then this is -- every time people come in with their experiences, some people may ask them questions and say, "Oh, is that your opinion? There is no facts 362 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

around it." So, I can at least confirm that firsthand information that you're sharing about this?

SALLY GROSSMAN: Yes.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): And there was somebody who held the arm of a patient and seemed like was physically touching and pushing them to stay away from that. Did I hear you say that in your testimony earlier?

SALLY GROSSMAN: Yes. This was in the summer of 2017.

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Okay, okay. And so that, that actually helps recognize that there is a little bit of a -- I mean, obviously, now people say that people have a right to make free speech but if they are pushing and holding people and moving them in a different direction physically, that's probably not free speech. Okay, I hear what you're saying. And I was worried about the emotions around this whole issue are going to move in the wrong direction, but. While your testimony is helpful, but it's also very painful. So, so much for sharing this firsthand information, thank you so much, Ms. Grossman. And thank you for volunteering.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Are you done, Senator Anwar?

SENATOR ANWAR (3RD): Thank you, Madam Chair. I was just like lost in my thoughts, so I'm sorry. Thank you, Madam --

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Senator Somers.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Yes. Thank you for your testimony. I think that we have heard this now. This is -- so that was 2017 this was going on, you 363 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

know, quite a few years. It is my understanding, and I could be wrong, that this has subsided and that this is not going on presently.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Yes, because Hartford enacted the - - the ordinance. So, after Hartford enacted the ordinance limiting deceptive practices, that is when the CPC closed its doors and it's not open on Saturdays anymore.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay. So, but that lawsuit was withdrawn, so it's not happening currently. So, you know, we have heard this story for years now. And not that I like hearing it again, but there are -- you know, people do have a right to protest. You know, we -- all of us have experienced protests, whether we may like it, or agree with it, or not, you know, unless if somebody physically touches someone, then someone should have called the police. If that's the case, and -- and you do have the right to sit outside and meet people going into the grocery store and they try to hand you things or -- and you don't have to take it. So, you know, this is -- we keep hearing, it keeps coming back to these two centers.

One is, you know, a clinic that provides terminations, and the other one is a pro-life that are very close to each other. And obviously Hartford tried to intervene and we were -- they were -- it was settled. It wasn't withdrawn. They couldn't get people to go under oath in a deposition and say this happened, you know. And so, we -- we, as Legislators, have to put it all in perspective as to the good that many of these centers are doing versus people just not wanting to deal with other people's viewpoints in some -- in some respect.

And I just wanted to see if I was correct in my recollection that -- that this has stopped. We don't have this going on right now. This is from 2017. And again, how do we prevent people from protesting what they believe in? That's a difficult 364 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

-- difficult thing to legislate. And, you know, it's -- a lot of the controversy seems to -- it's coming back to these two places in Hartford. And I just wanted to verify that I was thinking that this is correct. So, thank you for your testimony.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Can I -- can I respond?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Of course, go ahead.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Okay. Thank you. So I'm not aware of a time when it was stated that protesters aren't allowed to protest. That -- that wasn't what I said at any point in my testimony, and I don't remember anyone else saying that. The -- this is about deceptive practices, and I shared deception that I witnessed at the hands of volunteers of the CPC. And so we're not aiming to legislate protesters. We're not aiming to stop protestors from sharing their viewpoints. And that's not, as far as I know, that's not what this Bill does.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): So, when -- then why did you talk about people handing information to, you know, to potential clients that were going into the other facility?

SALLY GROSSMAN: I was clarifying -- I was clarifying remarks that were made earlier. There were many questions about the protestors outside the Hartford GYN Center and whether -- whether or not they were associated with the CPC. So, this was earlier in the day, maybe this was going on, but it was kind of a reoccurring question earlier in the day. Again, this was ten hours --

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): Okay, earlier in the day.

SALLY GROSSMAN: So, it's just clarifying that point because I witnessed it and saw it.

365 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): My concern is I'm hearing, you know, you speak and say there was people outside protesting. They were handling -- they were handing pamphlets from the CPC. They were giving bags. And then other people, putting words in your mouth, saying, "Oh, these people are being harassed." So, I'm concerned about the language that's -- it's getting late, that people are using. And I just wanted to make sure that I was clear on what I was hearing from you and from other people that have commented. So, thank you for your testimony.

SALLY GROSSMAN: So, what was your question? What was the clarification -- clarification that you needed?

SENATOR SOMERS (18TH): You said people were being handed pamphlets and bags as they went into the clinic that folks who were protesting that were part of the CDC were giving, trying to give people information or hand them bags. And someone else, when they were speaking to you -- you used the word "harassing". They were harassing. And you did clarify and say, "Well, I wouldn't call it harassing." But it's getting late, and I -- I don't think that we should use that kind of inflammatory language as we're responding to people. So, that's all. Thank you.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Okay. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): For the second time, I think, Representative Dauphinais.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Thank you. I just wanted to mention that protesters standing in front of the facility aren't deceptive advertising. That's something completely different. But I just wanted to verify, did you witness someone grabbing somebody's arm?

SALLY GROSSMAN: Yes.

366 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): You did. Well, did you call the police?

SALLY GROSSMAN: Not that time. But I've called the police other times.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): Okay. Because I know Senator Somers says when -- when someone's assaulted physically, the police should have been called. So --

SALLY GROSSMAN: Yes.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): You know, that would have been a way to verify that behavior as well. So -- that was all I had to say. Thank you, Senator.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Okay.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Representative. Go ahead, Ms. Grossman. Did you want to say --

SALLY GROSSMAN: So, when -- when this happened, I was new at the clinic and when the person grabbed the patient's arm. But also we cannot just call the police. The patient has to be okay with that because they are the ones that were assaulted. I cannot just call the police because I want to. That is not something that we're allowed to do. If the patient had said that they wanted the police called because they were assaulted, that absolutely is something that could have been done, but that wasn't what the -- the patient mentioned that they wanted to do. They were very upset about the incident, but they never, you know, wanted the police called.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Okay. Understood.

REP. DAUPHINAIS (44TH): I think I want to differ with that. I think if I were in a building and I looked outside and saw someone being physically assaulted, I wouldn't think twice about picking up 367 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

the phone and calling the police to report that. I'm not -- I'm not sure just because they were a patient there that would prevent you from letting them know that there was some physical assault going on outside. So, I just want to say that.

SALLY GROSSMAN: We've actually called the police. I personally had to call the police twice once when the protesters were blocking the entrance to a clinic and another time when a protestor said he was going to come back with a gun and shoot us.

On the first occasion, the officer came up and did not really speak to me. He just went over and talked to the protestors, shook their hand, did not answer my questions. He was really dismissive of me into filing a complaint. And the officer was found to have violated, you know, some code of conduct. So there -- and that was just the two times I called the police. Police have been called other times. In general, we don't get a positive response from police.

And what it does is it brings more attention to the clinic. So, in general, it -- that is not the first course of action that we take. And I understand that if you had seen an assault that you, you know, sitting where you are, things that, you know, you think the police should have been called, but it's completely different being in that situation where your concern is for the patient and their safety, and you will not just call the police because you want to. That is not the how clinics are run.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you for that, Ms. Grossman. I'm going to stop the conversation there because I think, as someone pointed out, it's not necessarily germane to this Bill, so --

SALLY GROSSMAN: Yes.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): -- we'll move on. 368 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): So, thank you so much for testifying. Appreciate your time this evening.

SALLY GROSSMAN: Thank you. Have a good one.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): You too. Next is Robert Hale followed by Nicole Sanclemente. Mr. Hale, are you with us?

ROBERT HALE: Yes, I am.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Welcome. Go right ahead.

ROBERT HALE: Well, thank you. This is Attorney Robert Hale. I'm testifying from my home. I had wished to testify earlier from my office because it would be a cleaner backdrop. But I thank the Members of the Committee. I thank everybody for all the time they've put in today. It's been extremely difficult day. I've been listening most of the day and observing. I did submit written testimony.

Right now, my thoughts are a little scattered. I would simply like to say -- hit the highlights of my testimony and say that, number one, I don't see a need for this Bill. There is, first of all, it hasn't been a demonstrated need that there is any deceptive advertising taking place by pro-life pregnancy centers.

Secondly, I believe it unfairly targets pro-life pregnancy centers by the definition in the Bill. It does not, obviously, it's not crafted to apply to what are they calling themselves? Reproductive health centers. I mean, they're -- they're pregnancy centers that provide abortion. It's unequal. It's targeted to you know, basically silence the pro-life pregnancy centers, and 369 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

basically drive up their costs, run them out of business. It's to eliminate the competition. It's thinly disguised and very poorly crafted. It would not stand constitutional muster.

It is -- it violates the equal protection clause and many other constitutional issues. But the legislation itself is just so deceptively worded. The term "emergency contraception." There is no such thing. Contraception would be to prevent conception. What they're talking about is simply a chemical abortion. There the -- I could go on and on about the definitions in the Bill, but it's very poorly worded.

I mean, when they're talking about -- Oh my God. When they're talking about pregnancy services centers, they don't talk about what they really do. They talk about people, what they appear to be. What -- they are wearing white coats and all that. It -- it's -- it is deceptive legislation. They're talking about prenatal care without -- without admitting that prenatal care is for a preborn child.

So, I'm sorry. My thoughts are very scattered. It's been a long day. But this -- this type of legislation is purely crafted to really silence these -- to stop women from getting the information. The complete information that they need.

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: You've hit your three minutes. If you wouldn't mind concluding your remarks.

ROBERT HALE: Thank you, Lindsay. I do appreciate all the work the Committee has done. I would -- I've testified about this Bill before. I think it's time that it was withdrawn permanently and stopped coming back to the Committee. Thank you very much.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Mr. Hale, for your testimony. I do not see any questions at this time, so I'm going to thank you. And thanks for hanging in with us today. Appreciate 370 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

it. Next we have Jennifer O'Neill, No. 73, followed by Leticia Velasquez.

JENNIFER O'NEILL: Good evening. Can you hear me?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): I can. Go right ahead.

JENNIFER O'NEILL: Okay. Thank you so much, Madam Chairman and all of the Members of the Public Health Committee. I very much appreciate the opportunity to testify by way of background. I'm an attorney. I live and practice in Middletown. I recently moved to my practice to Downtown Middletown.

Part of my practice is dedicated to working with immigrants, mostly undocumented immigrants. And I very much appreciate that in Middletown, we can access social services. We have a soup kitchen, a food pantry, a woman's shelter, a public health center. And we also have ABC Women's Center, which is a pregnancy care center.

I'd like to take bit of a different angle on why I am opposed to SB 835, and I encourage you to vote no. I'd like to talk about the effect of the passage of this Bill that it would have on the polarization in Connecticut. It's clear that, to me, that the proponents of this Bill as well as those opposed care deeply about women, and genuinely want to help them. What is unclear is whether there are objective deceptive practices on the part of pregnancy care centers and why centers providing abortions and abortion referrals are not part of the Bill.

As such, the Bill is one sided in its objective. Even if this is not the intent of the proponents, its lack of neutrality is an indicator that if passed, the legislation would almost certainly result in litigation -- costly and lengthy litigation.

371 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

It was mentioned the case in Baltimore where the city had passed an ordinance similar to the proposed legislation here, which was eventually defeated. The Fourth Circuit was the last court to pass on the merits of that case because the U.S. Supreme Court denied certification. And the Fourth Circuit, this is what they said about this type of -- it was an ordinance in that case.

The Fourth Circuit said, "The abortion debate in our country has a long and bitter history. Thus, disagreements on the merits has led both sides to retributive speech restrictions and compulsions." And then the Fourth Circuit went on to say that it saw the efforts behind the ordinance as, "weaponizing the means of government against ideological foes."

With respect to the Bill before the Committee, whether it is intended or not, the Bill will be seen as a weapon. And that's something we don't want. It will perpetuate the mentality of us against them, pitting one side versus the other, whether it's Democrat against Republican, pro-life against pro- choice. In the end, it will only cause the division within our communities, our state, and our country to grow deeper. And I think it's very reasonable to say that the entire country is tired of polarization. We need the legislators --

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Excuse me. You've hit your three minutes. If you wouldn't mind concluding your remarks.

JENNIFER O'NEILL: Thank you so much. Yes, I will. I encourage you to please pursue a more fruitful endeavor. Try to bring both sides together, help us work together. We are in desperate need of our legislators and leading the way and healing the wounds of the country and not perpetuating them. Thank you so much for hearing my testimony.

372 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Ms. O'Neill . I have to say that I represent Middletown, and I very much agree with your description. So thank you for that. I don't see any questions, so I'm going to say have a good evening and thank you for being here tonight.

JENNIFER O'NEILL: Thank you, Ma'am Chairman.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next is Nicole Sanclemente. Go right ahead.

NICOLE SANCLEMENTE: Good evening everyone. Oh, sorry. Good evening everyone. Sorry, it's been a long day, so I'll make this short and efficient. Senator Abrams, Representative Steinberg, and members of the Public Health Committee, my name is Nicole Sanclemente, and I'm the policy and program associate for the Connecticut Women's Education and Legal Fund.

CWELF is a statewide nonprofit that advocates for and empowers women and girls in our state, especially those who are underserved or marginalized. For 47 years, CWELF has fought for women's rights here in Connecticut. This includes ensuring that all women in our state have access to comprehensive reproductive healthcare and control over their own bodies.

I'm here to support Senate Bill NO. 835, AN ACT CONCERNING DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING PRACTICES OF LIMITED SERVICES PREGNANCY CENTERS. Access to comprehensive, legitimate and time-sensitive healthcare is critical to the economic security of women in Connecticut.

Women in our state already face barriers to achieving economic security and currently earn $0.84 to every dollar paid to men, a gap that's significantly wider for women of color. Crisis pregnancy centers often falsely present themselves as comprehensive reproductive healthcare clinics 373 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

while refusing to provide or refer patients to abortion care, emergency contraception, or birth control.

When a woman seeks medical care at an anti-abortion CPC, she's often met with misinformation and shame rather than comprehensive, accurate healthcare information she needs and deserves. Research indicates that women who are denied access to abortion face economic hardship in the years following.

The ability to control the timing and size of one's family significantly impacts whether a woman is able to attend and complete college and become financially secure. The ability to control one's reproductive life is a critical component to a woman's economic security and autonomy.

Without reproductive choice, women face yet another barrier to attaining equal pay or opportunity in the workforce. All women in our state deserve access to honest and transparent healthcare, free from deception. No one should be deceived or misled as they seek critical healthcare services.

CWELF encourages the Committee to support Senate Bill 835 to regulate the deceptive practices of CPCs and to ensure that Connecticut women receive truthful information about their reproductive healthcare options to make informed decisions about their health. Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Ms. Sanclemente, for being here. I'm waiting to see. I don't see any questions at this time, so have a good evening.

NICOLE SANCLEMENTE: Thank you. You as well. Thank you everyone.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have Charlotte Taft followed by Carolyn Bennett. Ms. 374 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

Taft, did you hear? I see you there. Great. We're on you. You should be okay to go. Go ahead.

CAROLYN TAFT: Okay. Thank you. I've been an abortion care director, an advocate and consultant since 1975. I specialize in working with women who are uncertain about their decisions or who have had a difficult time after abortion. Helping women feel whole is my life's work.

I am in favor of SB 835. I've had personal experience as the director of a clinic with this kind of agency in my building. I've seen the pain inflicted on women who were tricked. We had hundreds of people's stories of deception and confusion read into the congressional record during a mid-1980s hearing. It is frustrating that you haven't heard many of these stories today, like the ones you just heard from Sally Grossman.

It appears that some anti-abortion facilities are being more transparent. That's great. Anti- abortion pregnancy centers provide services that women need. And that's wonderful. This legislation does not silence them or stop them from doing any of their charitable non-coercive work. They're only opposing this law because it is part of their mission to stop women from having abortions.

I call them fake clinics because, although they appear to the average person to be abortion clinics, none of them offers abortion care services or referrals. Many have a specific and often unstated political and religious anti-abortion agenda. None protects women's privacy with HIPAA laws, and most are not covered by the laws that regulate actual abortion clinic -- clinics, even when they provide medical care services like pregnancy testing or ultrasound. When an agency uses a neutral name and locates itself near an actual abortion clinic, it is no coincidence that women will be confused.

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You have asked for specifics. The website of anti- abortion Hartford Women's Center says, "We are here to help empower you to make an informed decision that is wholly yours, free from pressure that would prevent real choice." This statement is deceptive. There would be no support there for a woman's decision to have an abortion or abortion care. Testimony that suggests these are innocent coincidence is disingenuous and dishonors women.

I can't imagine that anyone who's looking for an agency with an undisclosed religious and political agenda, an agency that exists primarily to try to coerce them to have a baby. The fact that has been allowed for over a century doesn't mean it should continue to be. That is up to you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much, Ms. Taft, for your testimony. Let's wait a moment to see if anyone has any questions. Seeing none, thank you so much for your time this evening.

CAROLYN TAFT: I appreciate you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Appreciated. Next we have Carolyn Bennett followed by Mickeve Regis. Ms. Bennett. There you go. Go right ahead.

CAROLYN BENNETT: Members of the Public Health Committee, my name is Carolyn Bennett, and I'm here to ask you to vote no on SB 835. To be completely honest, my submitted testimony is identical to what I said last year, but I had difficulty coming up with anything new and interesting to say on the subject. But however, I am going to shorten and summarize my testimony.

So, proponents of this Bill have claimed deception and intimidation to women in need of pregnancy- related services. But if you ask the clients what they think, you have -- you'll have a different story.

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Care Net is one of the largest networks of pregnancy resource centers in North America with more than 1,100 affiliates and 30,000 volunteers. In 2019, they produced a factual report in response to the fault accusations being brought against pregnancy centers.

Care Net's report states that the percentages of Care Net-affiliated center clients who said their experience was positive were 99% in 2013, 97% in 2014, and 98% in 2015. Client satisfaction ratings that high are difficult to find in any industry. 97% satisfied, 98%, 99%. This is data. This is the truth.

Critics of pregnancy centers depict them as unregulated and unprofessional. But Care Net- affiliated centers adhere to high standards that produce consistent quality services. Other affiliation networks have similar policies.

These standards are posted publicly on Care Net's website, and include the following, for example: clients receive accurate information about pregnancy, fetal development, lifestyle issues, and related concerns. Care Net does not offer, recommend or refer for abortions, abortifacients, or contraceptives. We're committed to offering accurate information about related risks, and procedures.

All of our advertising and communication are truthful and honest and accurately describe the services we offer. Pregnancy centers provide needed and awaited services to their communities. If it were not for the presence of pregnancy centers, pregnant women would have no places to turn if they were seeking services other than abortions to assist them in their pregnancy. Please oppose SB 835. Thank you very much.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you for your testimony, Ms. Bennett. Hold on just a minute. I 377 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

don't see any questions, so have a good evening. Thanks for being here. Let's see. Next up is Mickeve Regis. I hope -- I probably did not get your name correct. So, if you'd like to say it, please tell us.

MICKEVE REGIS: Actually, Senator Abrams, you did get it correctly. Thank you. [laughs]

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Very lucky. Thank you for being here, go right ahead.

MICKEVE REGIS: My pleasure. My pleasure. Good evening, everyone, all Members of the Public Health Committee. We thank you for your presence tonight and for being in this with us since 9:00 a.m. this morning.

So, I am testifying in opposition to SB 835. My name is Mickeve Regis, as mentioned. I'm the client service manager at ABC Woman's Center in Middletown, Connecticut. I've overseen the client services department for the last four years. I received my master's in interdisciplinary studies in human development at the University of Pennsylvania. And tonight, I just want to submit -- I have already submitted my written testimony. So, I just want to take some time to touch on a few points.

So, over the last four years, I've observed that ABC's clientele has grown, year after year. And that's mainly due to word of mouth, and that was mentioned earlier today. Meaning over 50% of our clients are sharing their positive experiences with family members and friends, and serve as our biggest community referral group. And that says a lot.

We provide options, counseling, and refer out for services such as prenatal care. We have a partnership with community health center here in Middletown. And in order to facilitate entrance into prenatal care, we will sit. And when I say, "we," I'm talking about the medical service manager 378 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

or other RNs on staff. We'll sit with the patient and call the Prenatal Care Department at CHC in order to facilitate that. And as mentioned before, we took the time to check our client data history.

There was a testimony about Tara who came to ABC in 2015 at the age of 19. And again, we've verified that we could not find any -- any evidence at all that aligns with that. Okay? So, that I wanted to make clear. And before a client even enters the door at ABC for an hour appointment, because there's been a lot of talk about time-sensitive issues, right? So she is told about the services we provide and the ones we do not provide.

One of our preliminary documents called the limitation of services, makes it very clear what we provide and what we don't. And I actually have a copy of it here. It's laminated. I know you guys can't see probably, because of the reflection on there. But we have included in that we do not perform or refer out for abortions.

They see this document before they even come in for their first-time appointment at our center. And we go over it again, when they come in for that first appointment to ensure that they understand what we do and what we do not do. And I've taken the time with other staff members here to ensure the proper training of all of our client advocates and receptionist in order to provide this information.

So, there's no deception there. We take pride -- we take so much pride in the work that we do and the services that we provide. And we've had the opportunity to build vital community partnerships here in Middletown with Middlesex Health, ECF, New Horizons, Holly House, Women in NAACP, and Maturity Works. And that list continues to grow.

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: Sorry, sorry. You've hit your three minutes, if you wouldn't mind concluding your remarks. 379 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

MICKEVE REGIS: Yup. Thank you. This both provides credibility and accountability. So most importantly, we want our clients and families to feel equipped and empowered to live healthy and well-rounded lives.

So, right now, we've been in existence for 30-years plus now. And I just want to share just a couple of comments that our clients have left with us after an appointment. One said, "I'm so happy my friend recommended ABC to me." Another, "Thank you for doing all this work to help women and children." And lastly, "I appreciate everything you do. It feels like a weight has been lifted." So, yeah, this is the foundation we've built ABC on, and we provide that safe place for people to be themselves. It's a non-judgmental space, and we don't take that lightly at all. So, we welcome the Public Health Committee members to come in to visit our centers and to see what we do

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you, Ms. Regis. I really appreciate that and your testimony. And I really appreciate the efforts that you're making to be clear to people about what you provide and what you don't. I think that's what we're all looking for. So, thank you for doing that. I don't see any questions at this time, so I'm going to thank you so much for your testimony. And have a nice evening. Thank you.

MICKEVE REGIS: Thanks.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have Michelle Kwan followed by Deidra Hall. Ms. Kwan, go right ahead.

MICHELLE KWAN: Thank you leaders and members of the Public Health Committee. My name is Michelle Kwan. I'm a member of the community and I'm speaking against Bill SB 835.

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SB 835 almost certainly restrict free speech. This legislation will only provide opportunities for political persecution where language is picked apart and left to discretion of prosecutors to declare which language is allowed and not allowed. It would be similar to restricting an abortion provider from telling a woman that the only option in her case is to terminate her pregnancy.

There are many cases where this kind of language is used because a doctor strongly recommends termination and does not refer a woman for a second opinion. This was the case for Peter and Suzanne Guy who received an adverse prenatal diagnosis, potential chromosomal, abnormality, not compatible with life, low amniotic fluid, which led their doctor to tell them, "You need to have an abortion."

Their doctors did not allow them to explore other possibilities and use language to imply that there were no other options. And after a second opinion, they decided to go through with the pregnancy, and today, their daughter, Rachel, is a healthy young woman.

If we assume the best of these doctors, they may have been trying to act for the patient's best interests, and we wouldn't want to accuse abortion providers of deceptive practices because of this. So we must allow free speech when exploring all options in the best interests of women.

So, let's continue to allow free speech by stopping this legislation, which would make it much more difficult to simply say you do have options. There are other considerations. You can get a second opinion. There are people here to support you.

This legislation is targeting pregnancy resource centers exclusively. It assumes that there are rapid deceptive practices where there's no evidence for this. It's designed to destroy the credibility of pregnancy resource centers, creating hesitancy 381 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

for both potential clients and potential donors. It opens the door to the type of bullying that would compel a pregnancy center to change locations or change the name of their center or change their websites.

It opens the door to the bullying that says that showing pictures of an unborn child in the form of ultrasound and advertising is deceptive, when that literally is the only way to show a picture of an unborn child whose very existence is the definition of pregnancy. It is designed to financially cripple pregnancy resource centers by opening the door to expensive lawsuits against deceptive practices that are not clearly defined and left to the interpretation of the Attorney General alone.

According to the testimony of Jeremy Bradley, there are no documented complaints against any pregnancy resource centers in the state of Connecticut. It seems that this legislation would only affect hypothetical and alleged bad actors but will ultimately drain limited resources on all crisis pregnancy centers.

Laws are already in place to regulate deceptive practices. Pregnancy resource centers are not taking anything from women. There are certainly no type of swindling happening. They provide emotional, spiritual, educational, and material support to women facing unplanned and crisis pregnancies. They help make resource connections in the community for women who want to follow through with their pregnancies through parenthood or through adoption.

Pregnancy centers have an important role to play for women. Let's continue to assume that there are women who want to go through with their pregnancies and just need help to see a path forward. We need to keep speech free and safe for people who can tell a woman, "If there's a heartbeat, there's hope." Please vote against SB 835. Thank you. 382 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you very much, Ms. Kwan. I appreciate your testimony. I don't see any other -- I don't see any questions at this time, so thank you so much and have a good evening.

MICHELLE KWAN: Thank you.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Next we have Deidra Hall. Ms. Hall, go right ahead.

DEIDRA HALL: Can everyone see and hear me all right?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): We can -- we can hear you.

DEIDRA HALL: All right. Can you see me?

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Now I can see you. Yes. Go right ahead.

DEIDRA HALL: Okay. Wonderful. Hello, everyone name is Deidra Hall. I'm a 17-year-old junior in high school in [inaudible] Connecticut and I'm speaking about SB 835. This Bill says that it's about transparency and full disclosure. However, this Bill does not give women the ability to choose one of many options. What it does is tell women that they aren't smart enough to make the supposedly correct choice, and that we need to stop the voices of all options but one, abortion.

Many claim that this is not a partisan issue. However, this Bill only targets crisis pregnancy centers, not abortion providers. It has been stated in this hearing that crisis pregnancy centers goal is to prevent women from getting an abortion. And this is bad. However, this ignores the fact that abortion providers' main goal is to counsel women to get abortions.

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I'd like you to consider which party makes money off of this. The people who charge hundreds of dollars for abortions or the people who give away free resources to women? I think for me, the answer is pretty simple.

And now, I don't blame the abortion activists for trying to remove their competition through cleverly- worded legislation. They do make a lot of money off of abortions. And the more women who decide not to get abortions, the less money that they will get. However, just because you want more women to get an abortion does not mean you should pass a Bill that allows the one man, the Attorney General, to target all organizations that do not provide or refer for abortions. The legal fees and time consumed by these cases will cripple pregnancy resource centers' ability to give women the help that they need and want.

And that's exactly what the sponsors of this Bill want. Instead of women being able to come and have all options available, they're left with the option that one man has chosen for them.

Now you may be asking, shouldn't we protect women from deception? The answer is of course, yes. And so instantly, someone agrees with me, we have regulations in place that already deal with this issue. This Bill does not protect them in in crisis situation. It shoves abortion down their throats in every situation that they find themselves in.

In testimony earlier, it was stated that women in crisis pregnancies are not capable of understanding how state works. And also somehow, automatically assume that a picture of a heartbeat and lab coats means that this facility provides abortion. Consistently, not true. As a 17 year old, I wouldn't assume this. At least I'm certain that women are much smarter than this Bill gives them credit for.

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Women shouldn't be told that they're not smart enough to go to college and have a baby. Women shouldn't be told that they're not strong enough to work full time and raise a family. Women shouldn't be forced to choose the future goals and aspirations for their baby's life. We should give women the resources that they need to be successful as a mother and as a scholar or worker. Pregnancy resource centers do this and this Bill will prevent these centers from operating freely unless they compromise their beliefs, the beliefs that women deserve better than abortion. That women are able to make a choice without being made for them.

One of the main issues I have against this Bill is its lack of content neutrality. Now, the question was posed earlier, what would make this Bill --

LINDSAY VAN BUREN: You've hit your three minutes. If you wouldn't mind to including.

DEIDRA HALL: Of course. The main issue with the Bill, it's been asked, how can we make this Bill able to be passed? What would make this acceptable? And the only thing that would allow this Bill to be acceptable is if it was a completely different bill.

You see, the entire purpose of this Bill is specifically targeting one organization. Unless it targets all organizations equally, it cannot be passed legally or morally. So if you want to tell women and girls like me that I'm not smart enough to make a fully-informed choice, then go ahead. Say yes. So, I urge you to stand against this Bill and against the agenda that will force the women to pick the only choice that benefits abortion providers. Thank you so much.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you so much for your testimony. Have you done this before?

DEIDRA HALL: Yes, I've done this for every year. So it's kind of like I've grown up here. 385 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Okay. Well, it's wonderful. I always love when young people make the effort to testify, so, I really appreciate you being here tonight. I don't see any questions, so I'm going to say thank you. And I hope that you'll continue in your activism around any issues that you see come up in the Capitol. So, thank you so much.

DEIDRA HALL: Thank you so much.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Oh, I'm sorry, Senator Hwang. Senator Hwang, did you have a question? I didn't see you. I apologize.

SENATOR HWANG (28TH): No, Madam Chair. I just wanted to extend the same appreciation. I know the night is long. And Deidra, you did a great job and you grew up in it. I think you're going to be tremendous in whatever advocacy you undertake. And I also want to extend a compliment to Senator Daugherty. You have remained consistent with every young speaker that have stood up and spoken and offer their viewpoints, whether those are viewpoints that are consistent with some of the approaches and arguments that you've taken. I want to compliment you for your consistency in empowering our young people to offer their opinion. So, thank you. Thank you, Madam Speaker -- Madam Chair.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Well, thank you. I think that's the teacher in me. And I don't -- it doesn't matter what the opinion is. It's just good to see people stand up and speak for themselves when they're a young person. So, thank you. Thank you, Deidra.

DEIDRA HALL: All right, no problem.

SENATOR DAUGHERTY ABRAMS (13TH): Thank you. And I think that that concludes our public hearing for this evening. Thank you so much to all the Committee Members for being here and giving this 386 February 10, 2021 dgt/si PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE 9:00 A.M.

your attention all day. And once again, I'm just always so proud and pleased to be a part of this Committee. So, thank you all, and have a wonderful evening.